1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 18 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 274       Contents:. "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?4 Re: 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and software4 Re: 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and software8 Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon$ Re: DCL symbol substitution question* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long) DECUS Lyon: some pictures * Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???- Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning  RE: ISE just spammed me... Re: ISE just spammed me... RE: ISE just spammed me.... New hobbyist cluster audit server hang on boot Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales& Running Oracle9i JDeveloper on OpenVMS Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Tivoli ABC for VMS Re: Tivoli ABC for VMS RE: Tivoli ABC for VMSP Re: [Q]  How do you set the SQO bit in the FAB (FAB, RAB, which field has this bP Re: [Q]  How do you set the SQO bit in the FAB (FAB, RAB, which field has this b  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2002 00:34:48 -0700' From: sdk_joseph@msn.com (Shawn Joseph) 7 Subject: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? = Message-ID: <f897700f.0205172334.2bdead20@posting.google.com>   F I have been working with VMS 7.2-1 for just over a year now and wantedC to start getting into some entry level programming.  I have written F many simply DCL procedures and I am currently reading/applying WritingD Real Programs in DCL, 2nd edition.  I have no programming experienceF but was looking to start out to help improve my skills and net worth.  I have a few questions.   E What is the best programming language for a newbie on VMS and why?  I F know each language has it's own highlights, but I don't know what theyA are.  Since I don't know a lot about these languages I guess I am E looking for pro's and con's on each, what people would recommend as a D best return on investment in time and money and what is likely to beE in demand/supported for the forseeable future.  I will most likely be @ learning it all through self study as I'm sure many others have.  C It sounds like there are several languages supported on VMS.  Would F anyone care to rank the top 5 in order of your own opinion and why you feel that way?  C How would you rank the languages in order of difficulty to learn?     D Is there one language that can do "most" or everything one needs?  I1 know I am setting myself up with this question :)   D If not, is there a logical order the languages should be studied and applied?  F What is the difference between C, C++ and Compaq C and Compaq C++, and C/C++ for that matter?  E Most of the references I have seen thus far for C have been for Unix, : are there resources out there for programming in C on VMS?  D I am told that Java runs on VMS and is even more portable than C butC requires additional overhead as it requires a runtime environment.   Any thoughts on this?   F I am looking for something long range I can pick up and something thatC is going to be portable to other Operating systems.  I think DCL is C pretty slick but is limited to VMS and from what I am told has many 9 limitations when compared to other programming languages.   ? I was considering C as I'm told it can be run on many operating  systems and is very powerful.   D Any comments in this area would be greatly appreciated.  I have beenF to Compaq's website, but all the different choices kind of overwhelmedF me.  I was hoping to get a "best in class" to narrow it down so that IC can do some more research and start learning a language in the near  future.    Regards,* Shawn Joseph, up and coming System Manager   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 07:16:07 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger); Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? J Message-ID: <rdeininger-1805020716070001@1cust21.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  = In article <f897700f.0205172334.2bdead20@posting.google.com>, ( sdk_joseph@msn.com (Shawn Joseph) wrote:  G >I have been working with VMS 7.2-1 for just over a year now and wanted D >to start getting into some entry level programming.  I have writtenG >many simply DCL procedures and I am currently reading/applying Writing E >Real Programs in DCL, 2nd edition.  I have no programming experience G >but was looking to start out to help improve my skills and net worth.   >I have a few questions.  I I will assume you have read the openVMS FAQ.  If you haven't, you should.   C >What is the best programming language for a newbie on VMS and why?   G If you already programmed in one of the common languages, that would be F the one to start with on VMS.  It sounds like that doesn't apply here.   >IG >know each language has it's own highlights, but I don't know what they B >are.  Since I don't know a lot about these languages I guess I amF >looking for pro's and con's on each, what people would recommend as aE >best return on investment in time and money and what is likely to be F >in demand/supported for the forseeable future.  I will most likely beA >learning it all through self study as I'm sure many others have.  > D >It sounds like there are several languages supported on VMS.  WouldG >anyone care to rank the top 5 in order of your own opinion and why you  >feel that way?   ? A long list of compilers is available on VMS.  They all support G appropriate language standards (or "standards" in some cases) generally H with some enhancements to make them more useful in the VMS environment. H If you avoid the enhancements, you will end up with pretty portable codeF in any languange.  Your programming _skills_ should be portable to any@ platform, even if the programs themselves are not 100% portable.  C >How would you rank the languages in order of difficulty to learn?    H This will vary with the individual and his past experience.  Some random	 comments:   F C has some syntax traps that many folks trip over, even after years ofH experience.  The syntax makes it somewhat hard for the compiler to catchH some common programming errors, so you have to find them yourself. The CJ programming "culture" often favors terseness and clever, sometimes obscureJ techniques.  I find the average C program I pick up fairly unreadable.  OnI the other hand, there a lot of folks around who know C fairly well, so it & is easy to find help when you need it.  H C++ maintains many of the features and pains of C, and adds many more. II am not a particular fan of C++ from a learning standpoint, but some folks I find it ok.  Relatively few people know C++ well, but many can run C code < through a C++ compiler without really using C++ effectively.   I Ada syntax was designed to eliminate many common traps, or make them easy J for the compiler to detect.  Ada is extremely portable between platforms. G Ada is more verbose than C, which annoys some people.  There is more of H Ada to learn than C, and less than C++, but you are free to ignore largeC parts of it that you don't need.  The Ada "culture" favors readable I programs over sneaky trickery.  Far fewer people know Ada, so you'll find F less help.  (But with the web and newsgroups, you can find Ada experts online pretty easily.)  G Pascal is a fairly small, simple language.  It used to be a very common H first language in programming courses, but it is no longer faddish.  AdaD evolved from Pascal, fixing a few design mistakes and adding tons of functionality.  I Basic is considered fairly easy to learn, but I have never used it on VMS  so I can't judge for myself.  G Cobol and Fortran are not particularly hard, and are still much-used in  certain problem spaces.   H From easiest to hardest, I'll rank them this way.  Others will disagree:L    Ada or Pascal (learning all of Ada is harder than learning all of Pascal)
    (Basic)    Fortran or Cobol     C    C++    E >Is there one language that can do "most" or everything one needs?  I 2 >know I am setting myself up with this question :)  H Most of them can do most of what you need, and all of them can do all ofI it if you work hard enough.  It depends on the problem space.  On VMS you G can mix languages together pretty easily, so you don't have to choose a & single language for the whole program.  E >If not, is there a logical order the languages should be studied and 	 >applied?   H One technique, which almost noone tries, is to write your favorite dozenI small programs (half page to 1 page or so) in any language, and then redo D them several times a few other languages.  This can be fun, but alsoI misleading, since some languages are better at "small" programs, and some I shine when programs get "big". (E.g. a small program is smaller in C than 7 in Ada, but a big program is smaller in Ada than in C.)     G >What is the difference between C, C++ and Compaq C and Compaq C++, and  >C/C++ for that matter?   = Compaq C is an implementation of standard C, with extensions.   A Compaq C++ is an implementation of standard C++, with extensions.   D C/C++ is an imaginary language, usually discussed by people who haveF learned how to run C code through a C++ compiler and might need to pad@ their resumes.  The languages are different, and the programmingH techniques are different. You don't want to get confused about which one you are using.  F >Most of the references I have seen thus far for C have been for Unix,; >are there resources out there for programming in C on VMS?   J The document sets of Compaq C, Fortran, C++ (IIRC) and probably others areC available on the web.  Start at www.openvms.compaq.com.  Any good C J textbook will be applicable to programming on VMS, but you will want the C) user's guide for VMS to help you as well.   G >I am looking for something long range I can pick up and something that D >is going to be portable to other Operating systems.  I think DCL isD >pretty slick but is limited to VMS and from what I am told has many: >limitations when compared to other programming languages. > @ >I was considering C as I'm told it can be run on many operating >systems and is very powerful.  E Most every platform has an implementation of C available.  It is very B widely used.  It is not particularly more powerful than many otherI languages, though certain tasks require less typing in C than elsewhere.  H It is significantly crippled in a few areas.  It teaches some techniquesF that I consider harmful, but they can be unlearned with enough effort.  E >Any comments in this area would be greatly appreciated.  I have been G >to Compaq's website, but all the different choices kind of overwhelmed G >me.  I was hoping to get a "best in class" to narrow it down so that I D >can do some more research and start learning a language in the near >future.  G Ok, learn C, since it is more widely used by more companies.  And learn > Ada so you get another point of view, and learn to program for# readablility instead of sneakiness.    Let the language wars begin...   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2002 07:36:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 3 Message-ID: <9QQnwOj$7bwR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <f897700f.0205172334.2bdead20@posting.google.com>, sdk_joseph@msn.com (Shawn Joseph) writes:   G > What is the best programming language for a newbie on VMS and why?  I H > know each language has it's own highlights, but I don't know what theyC > are.  Since I don't know a lot about these languages I guess I am G > looking for pro's and con's on each, what people would recommend as a F > best return on investment in time and money and what is likely to beG > in demand/supported for the forseeable future.  I will most likely be B > learning it all through self study as I'm sure many others have.  E If you know a language well, it is easier to learn a second language.   A I would recommend Ada because it is best at detecting programming C errors at compile time and getting you on your way for the learning  process.  B You may find demand for programming other languages in the future,: but if you have learned one language you can learn others.  ) If you have bias against Ada, try Pascal.   B If you don't care about learning to program rigorously, try Basic.  F > Is there one language that can do "most" or everything one needs?  I3 > know I am setting myself up with this question :)   D The programming language implementations on VMS all have appropriateB extensions allowing almost anything that can be done in user mode.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:56:52 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? * Message-ID: <3CE669DA.7080702@qsl.network>   Robert Deininger wrote:  > I > Ok, learn C, since it is more widely used by more companies.  And learn @ > Ada so you get another point of view, and learn to program for& > readablility instead of sneakiness>   > Let the language wars begin...  D Some of us started with the TECO Programming language, but that was  usually from before VMS. :-)  & http://www.yrl.co.uk/~elliott/teco.doc  B Learning any assembler language is useful, if only for helping to E understand what the compiler is doing with your program.  MACRO32 is  ' available for all platforms of OpenVMS.   A One way to practice is to grab an open source package, and start  3 assisting in maintaining an OpenVMS implementation.      -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 05:59:21 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ; Subject: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEDBFAAA.tom@kednos.com>   > You left out the most powerful language of them all, PL/I.  NoF syntactic ambiguities there, and easy to learn.  Subsumes the sematicsI of most 3GLs.  Very powerful diagnostic processing to aid the programmer, D and error handling capability to faclitate real production programs.   >-----Original Message----- : >From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]% >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 4:16 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com< >Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? >  > > >In article <f897700f.0205172334.2bdead20@posting.google.com>,) >sdk_joseph@msn.com (Shawn Joseph) wrote:  > H >>I have been working with VMS 7.2-1 for just over a year now and wantedE >>to start getting into some entry level programming.  I have written H >>many simply DCL procedures and I am currently reading/applying WritingF >>Real Programs in DCL, 2nd edition.  I have no programming experienceH >>but was looking to start out to help improve my skills and net worth.  >>I have a few questions.  > J >I will assume you have read the openVMS FAQ.  If you haven't, you should. > D >>What is the best programming language for a newbie on VMS and why? > H >If you already programmed in one of the common languages, that would beG >the one to start with on VMS.  It sounds like that doesn't apply here.  >  >>I H >>know each language has it's own highlights, but I don't know what theyC >>are.  Since I don't know a lot about these languages I guess I am G >>looking for pro's and con's on each, what people would recommend as a F >>best return on investment in time and money and what is likely to beG >>in demand/supported for the forseeable future.  I will most likely beeB >>learning it all through self study as I'm sure many others have. >>E >>It sounds like there are several languages supported on VMS.  WouldsH >>anyone care to rank the top 5 in order of your own opinion and why you >>feel that way? > @ >A long list of compilers is available on VMS.  They all supportH >appropriate language standards (or "standards" in some cases) generallyI >with some enhancements to make them more useful in the VMS environment. rI >If you avoid the enhancements, you will end up with pretty portable codejG >in any languange.  Your programming _skills_ should be portable to anyEA >platform, even if the programs themselves are not 100% portable.u >rD >>How would you rank the languages in order of difficulty to learn?  >sI >This will vary with the individual and his past experience.  Some randomi
 >comments: >?G >C has some syntax traps that many folks trip over, even after years ofwI >experience.  The syntax makes it somewhat hard for the compiler to catchAI >some common programming errors, so you have to find them yourself. The CeK >programming "culture" often favors terseness and clever, sometimes obscuresK >techniques.  I find the average C program I pick up fairly unreadable.  OnwJ >the other hand, there a lot of folks around who know C fairly well, so it' >is easy to find help when you need it.. > I >C++ maintains many of the features and pains of C, and adds many more. I J >am not a particular fan of C++ from a learning standpoint, but some folksJ >find it ok.  Relatively few people know C++ well, but many can run C code= >through a C++ compiler without really using C++ effectively.  > J >Ada syntax was designed to eliminate many common traps, or make them easyK >for the compiler to detect.  Ada is extremely portable between platforms. ,H >Ada is more verbose than C, which annoys some people.  There is more ofI >Ada to learn than C, and less than C++, but you are free to ignore large_D >parts of it that you don't need.  The Ada "culture" favors readableJ >programs over sneaky trickery.  Far fewer people know Ada, so you'll findG >less help.  (But with the web and newsgroups, you can find Ada experts  >online pretty easily.)i > H >Pascal is a fairly small, simple language.  It used to be a very commonI >first language in programming courses, but it is no longer faddish.  AdatE >evolved from Pascal, fixing a few design mistakes and adding tons of  >functionality.k >sJ >Basic is considered fairly easy to learn, but I have never used it on VMS >so I can't judge for myself.  >?H >Cobol and Fortran are not particularly hard, and are still much-used in >certain problem spaces. >aI >From easiest to hardest, I'll rank them this way.  Others will disagree:cC >   Ada or Pascal (learning all of Ada is harder than learning all m >of Pascal)n >   (Basic)e >   Fortran or Cobol >   C  >   C++o >e >eF >>Is there one language that can do "most" or everything one needs?  I3 >>know I am setting myself up with this question :)e >vI >Most of them can do most of what you need, and all of them can do all ofoJ >it if you work hard enough.  It depends on the problem space.  On VMS youH >can mix languages together pretty easily, so you don't have to choose a' >single language for the whole program.s >IF >>If not, is there a logical order the languages should be studied and
 >>applied? >rI >One technique, which almost noone tries, is to write your favorite dozentJ >small programs (half page to 1 page or so) in any language, and then redoE >them several times a few other languages.  This can be fun, but also J >misleading, since some languages are better at "small" programs, and someJ >shine when programs get "big". (E.g. a small program is smaller in C than8 >in Ada, but a big program is smaller in Ada than in C.) >  >sH >>What is the difference between C, C++ and Compaq C and Compaq C++, and >>C/C++ for that matter? >o> >Compaq C is an implementation of standard C, with extensions. >iB >Compaq C++ is an implementation of standard C++, with extensions. > E >C/C++ is an imaginary language, usually discussed by people who havecG >learned how to run C code through a C++ compiler and might need to padnA >their resumes.  The languages are different, and the programmingaI >techniques are different. You don't want to get confused about which oneh >you are using.e >iG >>Most of the references I have seen thus far for C have been for Unix, < >>are there resources out there for programming in C on VMS? >eK >The document sets of Compaq C, Fortran, C++ (IIRC) and probably others areaD >available on the web.  Start at www.openvms.compaq.com.  Any good CK >textbook will be applicable to programming on VMS, but you will want the Ce* >user's guide for VMS to help you as well. >tH >>I am looking for something long range I can pick up and something thatE >>is going to be portable to other Operating systems.  I think DCL iseE >>pretty slick but is limited to VMS and from what I am told has manyr; >>limitations when compared to other programming languages.  >>A >>I was considering C as I'm told it can be run on many operating  >>systems and is very powerful.i > F >Most every platform has an implementation of C available.  It is veryC >widely used.  It is not particularly more powerful than many otheriJ >languages, though certain tasks require less typing in C than elsewhere. I >It is significantly crippled in a few areas.  It teaches some techniquesuG >that I consider harmful, but they can be unlearned with enough effort.n >oF >>Any comments in this area would be greatly appreciated.  I have beenH >>to Compaq's website, but all the different choices kind of overwhelmedH >>me.  I was hoping to get a "best in class" to narrow it down so that IE >>can do some more research and start learning a language in the nearu	 >>future.t >tH >Ok, learn C, since it is more widely used by more companies.  And learn? >Ada so you get another point of view, and learn to program foru$ >readablility instead of sneakiness. >e >Let the language wars begin...  >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).o@ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002y   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:49:25 +0200y- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>e; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?r' Message-ID: <3CE65BE6.6DB510AE@Free.fr>n   Robert Deininger wrote:  >  >   > Let the language wars begin...   DCL    :-)u   D. -- p2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htma2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 17:00:06 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?a' Message-ID: <3CE68BD6.1B74D688@fsi.net>d   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > i > In article <f897700f.0205172334.2bdead20@posting.google.com>, sdk_joseph@msn.com (Shawn Joseph) writes:e > I > > What is the best programming language for a newbie on VMS and why?  IfJ > > know each language has it's own highlights, but I don't know what theyE > > are.  Since I don't know a lot about these languages I guess I ambI > > looking for pro's and con's on each, what people would recommend as aTH > > best return on investment in time and money and what is likely to beI > > in demand/supported for the forseeable future.  I will most likely besD > > learning it all through self study as I'm sure many others have. > G > If you know a language well, it is easier to learn a second language.A > C > I would recommend Ada because it is best at detecting programmingnE > errors at compile time and getting you on your way for the learningr
 > process. > D > You may find demand for programming other languages in the future,< > but if you have learned one language you can learn others.  D If one learns the fundamentals of programming, the language should aH matter of preference unless a specific function(ality) is available only in a specific language.r  G ...IMHO, YMMV, no purchase required, void where prohibited by law, some > restrictions apply, see store display for details, no purchase- necessary, some assembly (or C) required, ...r   --   David J. Dachtera+ dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:28:41 -0400d1 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>n= Subject: Re: 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and softwaree/ Message-ID: <ueclmoq7r70r21@news.supernews.com>e  L Actually we don't have field service employees but are seriously considering it  ? Currently, we ship product Same day service via Federal Expresso  L The other day, we got a call at 2pm for a KZPAC and got it delivered by Taxi in Iowa at 10:30  L Granted - that ain't four hours response, but nor is Compaq's in many cases.  K Shipping cost was $300  and product was $700 (and not $1000 per month for ad* complete maintenance contract every month)J Savings wise, I am sure that it is better to spare up and replace the card	 yourself.nL If the avergae MIS fella can't do that, I think they should reconsider their employ   DT          D Bob Kaplow <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message- news:dlOVKbU+DzAY@eisner.encompasserve.org...aL > In article <3CD937D3.41ECF76E@sunset.net>, Tom Crabtre <tccrab@sunset.net> writes:o
 > > Randy: > >r > > Hardware support:h > >  > > Island Computer Co., > > David Turner > > http://www.islandco.comi > >n) > > Dave is a great guy and very helpful.e > > <shameless plug> > >  > > TomC > >w > > "Randy B." wrote:. > >MI > >> Does anyone know of 3rd party alternatives to Compaq for support fort= > >> support of Alpha hardware (4100) and software (openVMS)?o >eH > I knw Island is a reseller, but do they actually have FS guys who will showL > up at my site at 2am Sunday morning to replace a failing KGPSA like DECpaq > does?p >rI > We've been using SMS for all of our VAX and Alpha maintenance for about  3-4  > years now. Many ex-DEC guys. >g >nB >         You [should] not examine legislation in the light of theF >         benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in theH >         light of the wrongs it would do and the harm it would cause ifH >         improperly administered -- Lyndon Johnson, former President of >         the U.S. >s2 > 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy5 > Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/y   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:27:49 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l= Subject: Re: 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and softwarea' Message-ID: <3CE68448.F0D5B4B1@fsi.net>m   "Island (hpaq.net)" wrote: > N > Actually we don't have field service employees but are seriously considering > it > A > Currently, we ship product Same day service via Federal Expressh > N > The other day, we got a call at 2pm for a KZPAC and got it delivered by Taxi > in Iowa at 10:30 > N > Granted - that ain't four hours response, but nor is Compaq's in many cases. > M > Shipping cost was $300  and product was $700 (and not $1000 per month for ai, > complete maintenance contract every month)L > Savings wise, I am sure that it is better to spare up and replace the card > yourself. N > If the avergae MIS fella can't do that, I think they should reconsider their > employ  H However, there are industries where even hardware certification requires> the following of certain procedures to maintain certification.   -- d David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:25:49 -0400y' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>tA Subject: Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon,' Message-ID: <3CE6808D.FF199907@gce.com>t  : Yep. No doubt at all some people at HP knew all about VMS.C The executives however spoke and speak mostly in ways that convinceeB me they were not among them. Sounds like they heard a little aboutC how VMS was "standards based" and had passed some of the tests that > indicated it was Posix compatible and from this they concluded" it was Yet Another Flavor of Unix.  6 Evidently too the HP execs did not highly value MPE...     Jeffrey Chimene wrote: > / > I'm sorry, I just can't let this slide by ...y > F > It's not like HP didn't "know" about OpenVMS prior to the merger: HPL > & DEC went mano-a-mano in the mini-computer market for almost [1] 20 yearsH > (circa 80 - 95). They marketed MPE as a VMS competitor in a variety ofE > hardware configurations. I refuse to believe that like Moses in thehE > bulrushes, HPQ "found" OpenVMS and doesn't know the history of thateM > foundling. To credit their statements to "market ignorance" buys into their- > disengenuous behavior. > * > Regards to one who is a Voice Of Reason, >  > jecb >  > [1]t5 >     Didn't HP also have a competitor to the PDP-11?  > I > > Since Compaq never shouted VMS from the rooftops, the HP folks likelyo" > > didn't hear too much about VMS* > > leading up to the close of the merger. >  > -- > microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2002 01:32 CDTa' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins).- Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution questiong- Message-ID: <18MAY200201324721@gerg.tamu.edu>M  c In article <0KQE8.81048$vm6.15241244@ruti.visi.com>, "Mark Jensen" <markje@vistainfo.com> writes...fK }Was able to get it to work by skipping the double quotes in the write lineR" }$ write WIZARCHIVE ''TEMPSTRING2'  G Do you have any idea what the various single quotes in that command do?d  F My suggestion: unless there is some specific reason that you are awareB of for putting in quotes, either single or double, in any specific  case, you should leave them out.  ? And if you were wondering, the net result of the quotes in yourRC command above is exactly zero - but you wast a few processor cyclesL
 to get it.  ( Not to be too much of a wiseacre, but...  % A day in the life of your DCL parser:P  @ The DCL parser scans at the line and comes to the first quote so@ it will then attempt a symbol substition on everything from that, quote to the next delimiter (or terminator).  ? It hits the second quote. This is a delimiter. There is nothings? between the quotes, which results in the nothing from the first.: quote through the second quote being replaced with nothing> (the symbol substition on nothing is nothing and the operation eats the delimiters).   F It reads along and hits the third quote. This will, again, do a symbol9 substitution on everything from it to the next delimiter.h  ? It starts reading again and hits the end of the line. This is ai@ terminator. There was, once again, nothing between the quote andF the terminator so the quote is replaced with that nothing that resultsE from a symbol substition on nothing (the end of line delimiter is noto, replaced - it is still the end of the line).  ? So now that it has done all the symbol substitution, it is lefth? with essentially the same command line, just without any quotest= since the symbol substitution replaced them all with nothing.   E If you really wanted to, you could add dozens more single quotes near C the first two as long as the number remained even. You can also add E as many to the end of the line as you want. (ALl as long as you don'toG go over the maximum line length). None of them will do anything useful.s   $ write WIZARCHIVE TEMPSTRING2  > No quotes. No problems. Just write the data represented by theC specified symbol to file represented by the specified logical name.m@ It's also what the parser ended up with anyway, after the symbol substitution phase.o   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2002 02:54 CDTs' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)n- Message-ID: <18MAY200202545203@gerg.tamu.edu>l  , "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> writes...G }"Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in messagee6 }news:01KHU08N2JRC96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...K }> > > Does this mean that booting will require DECnet?  Currently, one cand }use0 }> > > MOP instead of DECnet to boot satellites. }> >J }> > Not at all. It means that Ethernet remote boot will be available, butJ }> > without MOP. With something else that is currently being implemented,A }> > but what's the heck, What we want is remote boot, itsn't it?v }>< }> OK, but will this new ethernet boot be available for VAX? } F }I would seriously doubt it. I can't fathom any way that it would makeJ }economic sense for HP to expend engineering $$$ (best spent elsewhere) to? }retrofit discontinued hardware that's not been sold for years.  } 
 }Mark Levy }SMA  ( The question is "why would you need it"?  D If you are serving out your system disks now, it is almost certinaly the case that...B The boot server for your VAX is a VAX now and it will be then too.G The boot server for your Alpha is an Alpha now and it will be then too.mF The boot server for your IPF based system will be an IPF based system.  E Cross architecture boots have always been unsupported. Doable? Sure -oG just be careful about what directory structure the thing boots from andh* it *should* work. But it is not supported.  1 I expect this will be true in the future as well.   H It does not seem likely that they would rip out the existing boot serverH code from the VAX version of VMS. Or the Alpha version, for that matter.A They will continue to boot over the net just like they do now, ife they do.  E The IPF based systems consoles don't know how to use MOP, so they areTH implementing the method that they do use in IPF VMS. Since the code baseD for the IPF and ALpha versions is supposed to be the same, the AlphaG version could gain it as well - but it doesn't seem particularly usefulsD since the Alpha console doesn't understand this new method (at leastB not on any existing systems) so you can't use it to boot them, andC cross architecture booting has never been supported so you couldn't D use it to boot your IPF system either (unless you go the unsupportedC route and are very, very careful). So it may be the case that Alpha  VMS won't come with it either.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:13:15 +0200s* From: Daniel Clar <Daniel.Clar@supelec.fr>3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)f* Message-ID: <3CE6617B.F8C0658F@supelec.fr>   JF Mezei a crit :   > Didier Morandi wrote: I > > "As long as there will be Customers asking for Alpha servers, we willo+ > > continue to manufacture Alpha servers".i >tP > This does not address the long term decline of VMS that is due to many factorsN > and which requires active marketing to fix. If you wait for customers to begP > for VMS at a time where the messages sent out by other parts of HP clearly sayS > that VMS isn't strategic, you will wait a very long time for those new customers.t >lL > Were there any questions about Stallard's stupid text about HP wanting VMS > users to migrate to HP-UX ?v  L Look at the "revised version" on http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvmstimes/   Daniel   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:18:53 +0200s- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a" Subject: DECUS Lyon: some pictures' Message-ID: <3CE662CD.920EADB6@Free.fr>     http://213.36.104.34/decus_lyon/   Others will come later.A Enjoy.   D. --  2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htmw2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 08:55:46 +0200t- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>n3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???y' Message-ID: <3CE5FAF2.1F2D95A5@Free.fr>c   Its an Eicon DIVA 2430 SE  microcode 1.2.9 LSF     When reaching 192.168.1.1 I get:   Address IP  213.36.104.34  Subnet mask 255.255.255.0q DNS  213.36.80.1 local IP 192.168.1.1 Subnet mask 255.255.255.0  VPI 8t VCI 35 encapsulation LLCo MTU 1460  J If I access 213.36.104.34 I reach the maintenance leg of the modem, not my3 system. (maybe I can pool 213.36.104.* to find it?)    I'll check with the vendor.n   D.   Jerry Leslie wrote:e > , > What make/model of DSL modem do you have ? > D > The only one I'm familiar with is the DirecTV "gateway", whose WAN) > settings can be accessed via a browser:n >  >   http://10.5.1.2/ > C > which shows what IP address, subnet mask, and DNS servers are foru > the WAN side.n >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 03:37:05 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???i, Message-ID: <3CE6049E.20F4A5E9@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:e >  > Its an Eicon DIVA 2430 SEe > microcode 1.2.9 LSFe  N Is that just a modem or a router/modem combination ? Does it do NAT ? Does the) modem have its own built-in DHCP server ?a  " > When reaching 192.168.1.1 I get: >  > Address IP  213.36.104.34b  L If I try to fetch_http to the 213.36.104.34 address, I get a response from aJ Microsoft_PWS_Mac web server. (Microsoft on a MAC ? Are you a masochist ?)0 (BTW, the html in there is not complete/strange)  L > If I access 213.36.104.34 I reach the maintenance leg of the modem, not my5 > system. (maybe I can pool 213.36.104.* to find it?)g    N If your modem has a built-in NAT router, trying to connect to your external IPI address from inside your LAN will generally result in your accessing yourvM router. This is the behaviour of my router. You really need to use a separate 3 line to try to access your system from the outside.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:23:52 +0200c- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>R3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???-& Message-ID: <3CE60189.5E26BC8@Free.fr>   JF Mezei wrote:M > M > In north america, many DSL providers don't provide raw TCPIP over their DSLo( > lines, they provide PPP-over-ethernet.  A Bingo, you found it. Now I need to figure out if I can do raw IP.r Merci Jean-Franois.   D. --  2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htm.2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:12:54 +0200M From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???n& Message-ID: <3CE60D06.5030001@home.nl>  K That means your ADSL modem is in fact a Network Address Translating router.8   Have a look at this page:s  8 http://www.eicon.com/support/helpweb/adsl/2430_ig_ip.asp  # There you can find all information.l  ? The only way your web server can be reached from outside, is ifsF 1. You have gotten a valid DNS name in combination with a variable or B static IP address, or a static IP address from your ISP. These IP + adresses are on the ISP side of your modem.mH 2. If can configure your ADSL modem in such a way that calls to this IP G adresses are linked to a internal IP address. This is mostly done on a s by-port basis.  G So suppose your modem has gotten the IP adress 210.60.50.40 on the ISP fD port, then you should be able to make a setup whereby you can route G calls to port 80 on this IP number to port 80 on 192.168.1.3 (assuming  4 that is the internal IP address of your web server).  H If you can't make such a setup, then you never will be able to get your % webserver on the Internet I'm afraid.u   Regards,   Dirk   Didier Morandi wrote:r  O >I just installed my ADSL modem and found that DHCP gave me address 192.168.1.2o >rL >Obviously, this is not an Internet IP address, and I cannot either ping nor% >access my WEB server from "outside".r >i >Why?i >Thanks. >b >D. (ASE :-) >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:21:43 +0200,- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???.' Message-ID: <3CE62B36.ADE9CC89@Free.fr>e   JF Mezei wrote:d > N > If I try to fetch_http to the 213.36.104.34 address, I get a response from aL > Microsoft_PWS_Mac web server. (Microsoft on a MAC ? Are you a masochist ?)  N The truth is that the MacroShit PWS provides a genuine FTP server. The Mac WEBK server does not. And I use this server to access my personal stuff when I'ms% away, which is very often the case...w  2 > (BTW, the html in there is not complete/strange)  P What kind of strangeness? I get it right from my PC or from the iMac of my wife,L and I use it since 18 months (when I was working in Zurich) without trouble.  P > If your modem has a built-in NAT router, trying to connect to your external IPK > address from inside your LAN will generally result in your accessing yourrO > router. This is the behaviour of my router. You really need to use a separateM5 > line to try to access your system from the outside.t  # I did, it's ok. Bob is my uncle :-)w   D. -- e2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htmn2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:24:03 +0200e- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???1' Message-ID: <3CE62BC2.50A2E7D8@Free.fr>    Dirk Munk wrote: > M > That means your ADSL modem is in fact a Network Address Translating router.o >  > Have a look at this page:l > : > http://www.eicon.com/support/helpweb/adsl/2430_ig_ip.asp  I I love it. Does this mean that I can have all my network connected to theg? Internet without having to use IPNetRouter on my (gateway) Mac?    D. --  2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htm:2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2002 13:27:52 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>y3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside??? 6 Message-ID: <20020518132752.11199.qmail@gacracker.org>  C On Sat, 18 May 2002, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:s >Dirk Munk wrote:t >>  N >> That means your ADSL modem is in fact a Network Address Translating router. >> a >> Have a look at this page: >>  ; >> http://www.eicon.com/support/helpweb/adsl/2430_ig_ip.aspe > J >I love it. Does this mean that I can have all my network connected to the@ >Internet without having to use IPNetRouter on my (gateway) Mac?  K Apparently there is a limit of 4 devices. For more than that you'll need torK use a router of some sort. Many of the small SOHO routers are pretty cheap.a  H Also, there is no mention of how incoming requests are handled. This mayK give you problems if you want to run a web server and connect more than onesD device to the ADSL modem - i.e. which machine will get the requests?  H It is possible to run services over ADSL, in fact, VMSbox is operated inJ just this way, despite not having a fixed IP address. If you wanted to useG the same service as I do to handle the IP addressing you'd need a small I script to regularly update their DNS server with your current IP address.n8 You could look and see, perhaps morandi.cjb.net is free.     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:37:39 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)t3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside??? ; Message-ID: <DOsF8.91848$9F5.5468712@typhoon.austin.rr.com>l  . Didier Morandi (Didier.Morandi@Free.fr) wrote: : Its an Eicon DIVA 2430 SE  : microcode 1.2.9 LSF' : " : When reaching 192.168.1.1 I get: :  : Address IP  213.36.104.34V : Subnet mask 255.255.255.0  : DNS  213.36.80.1 : local IP 192.168.1.1 : Subnet mask 255.255.255.0s : VPI 8a : VCI 35 : encapsulation LLC 
 : MTU 1460 : L : If I access 213.36.104.34 I reach the maintenance leg of the modem, not my5 : system. (maybe I can pool 213.36.104.* to find it?)t :  : I'll check with the vendor.l :  : D. :  I found its technical specs:  -    http://www.eicon.com/diva2430se/techsp.htmo5    DIVA 2430 SE ADSL Modem - Technical Specifications   E It doesn't seem to support port forwarding, but the 2440 ADSL router:   <    http://www.eicon.com/worldwide/products/DSL/Diva_2440.htm)    Eicon Networks Diva 2440 ADSL Router: a:    Connect and Surf, secure, multi-user broadband solution  4 does support port forwarding by NAT static mappings:  0    http://www.eicon.com/pubs/diva_2440/index.htm2    usertoc.htm: Diva 2440 ADSL Router User's Guide     "NAT static mappings  F    With NAT enabled, computers outside of the internal LAN do not haveD    access to any computers on the internal LAN. The computers on theH    internal LAN are effectively invisible to the outside network. If youD    need a computer on the internal LAN to be visible to the externalD    network (such as a web server), the Diva 2440 provides a solution"    through NAT static mappings..."  E You may need to exchange the modem for the router, or add a cable/DSLiE router, like a Linksys, that goes between the ADSL modem and the LAN.d      H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:44:13 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) 3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???i; Message-ID: <NUsF8.91851$9F5.5468712@typhoon.austin.rr.com>e   Dirk Munk (munk@home.nl) wrote:oM : That means your ADSL modem is in fact a Network Address Translating router.n :  : Have a look at this page:t : : : http://www.eicon.com/support/helpweb/adsl/2430_ig_ip.asp : % : There you can find all information.e :   4 That page is for the 2430IG; Didier has the 2430 SE.    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailn   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:47:54 +0200n- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> 3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside??? ' Message-ID: <3CE65B8A.AAFECAB9@Free.fr>e  N Actually, I plan to install WASD on the Alpha and give up with my personal WEBH page, which was just a trick to be able to remotely browse my iMac disk.  P Btw, I realized that my iMac was slowing down since a few hours today. I went toL the Server log and found 68 connections since I posted my address in here...   What a success :-)   Cheers,  D.   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:m > M > Apparently there is a limit of 4 devices. For more than that you'll need toAM > use a router of some sort. Many of the small SOHO routers are pretty cheap.o > J > Also, there is no mention of how incoming requests are handled. This mayM > give you problems if you want to run a web server and connect more than one F > device to the ADSL modem - i.e. which machine will get the requests? > J > It is possible to run services over ADSL, in fact, VMSbox is operated inL > just this way, despite not having a fixed IP address. If you wanted to useI > the same service as I do to handle the IP addressing you'd need a small1K > script to regularly update their DNS server with your current IP address..: > You could look and see, perhaps morandi.cjb.net is free. >  > Doc. > --8 > The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.M > ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   -- >2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htmo2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 19:06:19 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>o3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???d' Message-ID: <3CE68A0A.8B85991E@Free.fr>   0 on which account should I send my shareware fee? :-)g   merci.   D.   Michael Austin wrote:c >  (VMS/DHCP for Dummies) --8<--   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:04:07 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>t3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???b2 Message-ID: <3CE68987.DB3057F7@firstdbasource.com>   Didier Morandi wrote:e > P > I just installed my ADSL modem and found that DHCP gave me address 192.168.1.2 > M > Obviously, this is not an Internet IP address, and I cannot either ping nor & > access my WEB server from "outside". >  > Why?	 > Thanks.  > 
 > D. (ASE :-)g > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans3 > Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htmn4 > --------------------------------------------------     as promised:  , http://www.firstdbasource.com/vms-on-bb.html  1 	How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection.t'                        The Easiest Way.t Background:s  ? There are several types of broadband currently available.  Thiss5 configuration will work with most types of broadband.y   Assumptions:3 	you have an EXTERNAL ETHERNET DSL/Cable/ISDN modemeC 	you have and can configure a SOHO Router (Linksys BEFSR{1|4}1, SMCwH Barricade, Netgear, etc prices range from $50-$200USD)  The setup of the devices is very simple.0D         Linksys IP Address range 192.168.1.xxx for example purposes.   Configuration:  A ===BroadBand===>[Modem]--->[WAN router LAN]--->VMS/Wxx/Linux/Unixa   ISDN: E [to be provided by someone who has this technology and would like to i. send it to: mailto:maustin@firstdbasource.com]   DSL:  @ The modems should be purchased from your ISP as they may need toB configure the modem for the parameters that work with their DSLAMS (Central Office equipment). F Most DSL service providers in the USA use PPPo[E/A] for authenticationD purposes. This authentication can be and should be entered into your# router to establish the connection.s   Cable Modem:  A Most cable providers use the MAC address of the first NIC that isg? connected to the modem and uses this address for authenticationiD purposes.  This would include the router if you used that when firstE connecting your service.  When the connection is established, it willmE also set up the WAN side of the router with DHCP information from thei cable provider.      PC Configuration:e  E The routers listed above (and some not mentioned) all are both a DHCPnC Client on the WAN and DHCP Server for the LAN.  Set up your PC's to F "Obtain address automatically" and you should have no problems surfing
 from here.   OpenVMS and Unix/Linux:   D While you can set up VMS to be a DHCP Client, there are features andE applications that simply will make this unmanageable and a real pain.wF (like the technical terms?) It is generally recommended that your SOHOH LAN DHCP Server be configured to serve from 192.168.1.5 to 192.168.1.100F (substitute your router IP address range).  Configure your TCPIP stackF on OpenVMS to be an address greater than this range such that they canE never intefere.  Remember, there are certain ranges that are used for ? LAN configurations and the Router does the NAT (Network Address3
 Translation).   > The following address are NON-ROUTABLE IP addresses to be used specifically for LANs. 192.168.xxx.xxx  10.xxx.xxx.xxx    H Get the WAN DNS information from your router or your ISP and enter it in? your BIND Resolver configuration (SET/SHOW NAME in TCPIP V5.1).   B Once this is connected, you should now be able to ping a server on	 Internet.o  	 Advanced:a  + How do I set up my system as a mail server?e  G This gets to be a bit more difficult.  There are several pieces to thisc. puzzle that will be necessary to make it work.   1) Register your domain nameF 2) Use a Dynamic DNS provider to provide DNS services on the Internet.H Remember, your IP address is generally not static - even if it is, it isF still in your ISP's netblock - not yours.  A good provider for this isG ZONEEDIT.COM (my provider) DYNDNS.COM and several others.  ZONEEDIT.COM G provides 5 free domains up to 200MB/DNS request each - or approximatelynF 1M requests/year. Or see if your ISP will allow you to manage your DNS entries.  G Configure you mail server with your primary domain.  Enter an "A"-classtH entry for that system that points to your WAN address.  Your Dynamic DNSG provider generally has scripts to keep this address updated for each ofW
 your domains.h   Example: OpenVMS 7.2-1/TCPIP V5.1Aa  : Router	WAN address 67.35.xxx.xxx (assigned via PPPoE/DHCP)  5 Alpha1.firstdbasource.com  LAN address 192.168.1.100 i+ Portforward ports 23,25,53 to 192.168.1.100u  B MX record for firstdbasource.com points to mail.firstdbasource.com2 (currently an alias to Alpha1) DDNS "A" record forH mail.firstdbasource.com = WAN IP address of your router ==>Portforwarded SMTP port to 192.168.1.100.r  D Make sure you configure your VMS/Linux systems to NOT allow RELAY.    F Also, make sure you read your ISP "Terms and Conditions/Acceptable UseA Policies" before configuring any servers to be accessable via the-	 Internet.8   -- C Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163i7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.come Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)y 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:45:17 -0400-( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarningB Message-ID: <20020518104256.P14008-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>    On Fri, 17 May 2002, Andy wrote:  8 > Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> enlightened us with< > news:20020517085833.Y14008-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu: >-/ > > On Tue, 14 May 2002, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:- > >-! > >> Your results sound atypical.2 > >0A > > Maybe, but I doubt it.  The reality is seldom the same as theo8 > > perception, especially when there are strong biases. > > 2 > >>  It would be interesting to know exactly what > >> your VMS system does, > >eB > > Oracle, Banner, whatever other applications a University might > > use to do business.o >aB > Since you've already made it clear that you are just an observerD > of this behavior there isn't much anyone can do except sympathize. >i< > (Or point some sales people for competing products in yourA >  general direction (Though if your school is running SCT BannermB >  I'd be surprised if someone from SCT hasn't suggested switchingD >  away from VMS to a more "stable" OS/hardware platform already....D > unless someone figures the $$$ for doing that is more than the $$$ > for the down-time.))  A Compaq already took care of that. Last June.  And no, it's not HP  they're looking at.    >rC > It IS possible to successfully use VMS in an academic environment A > for administrative purposes on the miniscule IT budget a lot ofu > schools have for such things.e  F The administrative side gets a lot more of the budget than I ever see.   bill   -- MJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:05:07 -04001( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu># Subject: RE: ISE just spammed me...jB Message-ID: <20020518100333.H14008-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  ' On Fri, 17 May 2002, Main, Kerry wrote:    > Alan,t >tJ > As a fyi, ISE is definitely a very strong OpenVMS partner. They not onlyI > attend and promote their OpenVMS based backup and scheduler products at C > major DECUS / CETS events, but also at events like the World widecH > OpenVMS Ambassador meetings. I do know of a few Customers who have had& > lots of good thing to say about ISE. >e  M There is NO justification for SPAM.  Everyone should take the Boulder Pledge.e   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:53:37 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t# Subject: Re: ISE just spammed me...e' Message-ID: <3CE68A52.918583C3@fsi.net>o   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > On Fri, 17 May 2002, Main, Kerry wrote:- > 	 > > Alan,D > >sL > > As a fyi, ISE is definitely a very strong OpenVMS partner. They not onlyK > > attend and promote their OpenVMS based backup and scheduler products atEE > > major DECUS / CETS events, but also at events like the World wideAJ > > OpenVMS Ambassador meetings. I do know of a few Customers who have had( > > lots of good thing to say about ISE. > >  > O > There is NO justification for SPAM.  Everyone should take the Boulder Pledge.C  D I suspect, however, that until it stops being an effective method ofG marketing, we'll see it continue, and possibly increase (sorry to say).   G I get 25 to 30 messages every day at my Earthlink address. Less than 10 C of them are "legitimate", and five of those are due to my InfoWorldi
 subscription.a   -- I David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:55:18 -0400i' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>T# Subject: RE: ISE just spammed me... T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026606E2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bill,:  + >>> There is NO justification for SPAM. <<<-  D While I am certainly not promoting SPAM, my $.02 is that a very goodG OpenVMS partner tries to promote their OpenVMS based products on a verypG occasional basis to the OpenVMS newsgroup, it is certainly not a reasono to jump all over them.  G Almost every other response in this newsgroup complains about a lack ofoB Partner solutions and/or lack of marketing, so I certainly do mindF hitting the delete key (if not interested, but I typically read anywayF to keep current) for those times when I get an occasional email from a good OpenVMS partner.3  D What do you call the hard copy marketing material that goes out on a regular basis?=20e  H Is that SPAM as well? Do I take it you don't want to receive anything at. all from anyone who you don't personally know?   Regardsl  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesl Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu]=20 Sent: May 18, 2002 10:05 AMh To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comq# Subject: RE: ISE just spammed me...c    ' On Fri, 17 May 2002, Main, Kerry wrote:    > Alan,a >dH > As a fyi, ISE is definitely a very strong OpenVMS partner. They not=20E > only attend and promote their OpenVMS based backup and scheduler=20eG > products at major DECUS / CETS events, but also at events like the=20 I > World wide OpenVMS Ambassador meetings. I do know of a few Customers=20t3 > who have had lots of good thing to say about ISE.  >l  E There is NO justification for SPAM.  Everyone should take the Boulder- Pledge.-   bill   --=20aC Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  ThreeM wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2002 07:05:13 -0700- From: merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt)r7 Subject: New hobbyist cluster audit server hang on bootN= Message-ID: <b6bf97d5.0205180605.471807aa@posting.google.com>5  8 Sorry for the cryptic subject line , here is my problem:  F Clusterd a 400/60 vaxvms 7.2-1 (sys0) + a 4000 vlc (sys10) they bootedD fine the first couple of times then the disk serving 4000/60 stopped
 booting up3 and remained at the starting auditserver line below   B %STDRV-I-STARTUP, OpenVMS startup begun at 19-MAY-2002 07:56:30.856 %MSCPLOAD-I-CONFIGSCAN, enabled automatic disk serving6 %MSCPLOAD-I-CONFIGSCAN, enabled automatic disk serving= %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 202000480( %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SYSTEM_1 spawned? %SET-I-NEWAUDSRV, identification of new audit server process isn 2020004E  D  being a hack I thought maybe GBLSECTIONS were low so I : >>>b/1 and boostedvC the current GBLSECTIONS from 450 to 650 then continued still hangs.   6 anyone have any ideas whats hanging the audit server?   8 here is the output of sho /clu from conversational boot: >>> b/1o     -DKA100l SYSBOOT>  SHO /CLUB Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.    
 Unit  Dynamic B --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------  
 ----  -------h@ CLUSTER_CREDITS                10         10        10       128 Credits @ VAXCLUSTER                      2          1         0         2
 Coded-valuF EXPECTED_VOTES                  1          1         1       127 VotesF VOTES                           2          1         0       127 Votes@ RECNXINTERVAL                  20         20         1     32767 Seconds    DF DISK_QUORUM     "DKA100          "    "    "    "    "    "ZZZZ" AsciiF QDSKVOTES                       1          1         0       127 Votes@ QDSKINTERVAL                    3          3         1     32767 Secondso@ ALLOCLASS                       0          0         0       255
 Pure-numbe@ LOCKDIRWT                       0          0         0       255
 Pure-numbe@ NISCS_CONV_BOOT                 0          0         0         1 Booleanp@ NISCS_LOAD_PEA0                 1          0         0         1 Boolean3@ CHECK_CLUSTER                   0          0         0         1 Booleany@ NISCS_PORT_SERV                 0          0         0         3
 Bit-encode@ MSCP_LOAD                       1          0         0     16384
 Coded-valu@ MSCP_SERVE_ALL                  1          4         0        15
 Bit-EncodeF MSCP_BUFFER                   128        128        16        -1 PagesD MSCP_CREDITS                    8          8         2       128 I/O@ TAPE_ALLOCLASS                  0          0         0       255
 Pure-numbe@ TMSCP_LOAD                      0          0         0         3
 Coded-valuF NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ              1498       1498      1080      8192 BytesF NISCS_LAN_OVRHD                18         18         0       256 Bytes@ TMSCP_SERVE_ALL                 0          0         0        15
 Bit-Encode@ CWCREPRC_ENABLE                 1          1         0         1 Bit-mask   D@ MSCP_CMD_TMO                    0          0         02147483647 Seconds    D   SYSBOOT>   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:26:20 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales 8 Message-ID: <00A0E19B.DC6D101E@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  [ In article <3CE534DD.F7647BD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:a   >Robert Deininger wrote:K >> VMS development on IPF continues, and appears poised to get a boost fromhH >> the integration with HP.  HP has far more IPF expertise in-house than5 >> Compaq did. VMS now has access to those resources., >eW >I have only seen statements from HP that development of vMS on Alphaservers continues.s@ >I have seen separate statement that the port to IA64 continues. >-L >I have no seen any statement that clearly states HP's intentions to develop' >VMS on IA64 once the port is complete.3 >0O >The wording in both cases was specific enough to make one wonder why they werei >so specific with that wording.e  K This kind of close reading is really a waste of time.  Compaq was perfectly H willing to abrogate unambiguous commitments (like the one to Alpha), andI Capellas - who was ultimately responsible for that - is still in place atLE HP.  So, basically, they've proven that they're liars.  They wouldn't F bother hedging these statements so carefully, and your parsing them so carefully is a waste of time.V  H (Now, if you felt you could believe what you said, the fact that they'veK said they plan to execute Compaq's VMS roadmap unchanged, and that Compaq'smK roadmap shows future development on IA64, would be good enough to show that8% this particular parsing was invalid.)r   -- Alano            O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056hM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210-O ===============================================================================i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:50:57 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: No new Alpha salessH Message-ID: <5%sF8.31333$ah_.24782@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   David,  H If the economy turns around and Hip's business picks up, the Board isn'tI going to notice that HP is down $2B in sales on the VMS side of the house J because they weren't promoting it anyway. It's not like their VMS strategyF would have failed, ....it would be that it's going exactly as planned.    4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3CE56F58.6873B0F2@caltech.edu...y > Bill Todd wrote:J > > HP doesn't have to drop VMS for VMS to die:   people just have to stopE > > buying it (as they appear to be doing).  Of course, if sales drop D > > sufficiently (a criterion that could even already have been met, consideringoK > > the kinds of comments coming out of Carly's level), there's no questionSL > > whatsoever that HP (especially under its current management) will choose to > > finish the job.n >rL > Looks that way to me too.  The net result will be a billion or two missing fromK > HP's revenues for next year from lost alpha and related sales.  Maybe the  BoardlL > will get a clue when that happens - by which time it will probably be much toonC > late to do anything but sack Carly and Curly and apologize to thei
 shareholders.r > 
 > Regards, >o > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:30:10 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales ' Message-ID: <3CE684D6.9404E8C3@fsi.net>c   John Smith wrote:h >  > David, > J > If the economy turns around and Hip's business picks up, the Board isn'tK > going to notice that HP is down $2B in sales on the VMS side of the house L > because they weren't promoting it anyway. It's not like their VMS strategyH > would have failed, ....it would be that it's going exactly as planned.  - ...or not planned at all, as the case may be.    -- r David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:50:43 +0200a From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>/ Subject: Running Oracle9i JDeveloper on OpenVMS6& Message-ID: <3CE623F3.4090308@home.nl>  G Recently Oracle announced the availability of the Oracle 9i JDeveloper   suite.I Although it is a pure Java environment, it is supplied with a Unix and a eG Windows startup procedure. For other Java enabled platforms, customers  5 have to figure out for themselves how to start it up.o  G The following procedure can be used to start JDeveloper on OpenVMS. It LF has not been extensively tested, but is seems to do the job. The "-V" D option is a OpenVMS specific Java option to get around the 255 byte D limit for the OpenVMS commandline. The OpenVMS Fast Virtual Machine $ produced errors, don't know why yet.  D For follow-ups, questions and remarks, please send my an e-mail (as : well). Reading all these newsgroups is a bit to much :-) .   Regards,  	 Dirk Munkz          P $!==============================================================================? $! Command procedure to startup Oracle9i JDeveloper on OpenVMS.  $!J $! This procedure reads the Oracle supplied JDEV.CONF file that is used to' $! start JDveloper on Unix and Windows.r $!I $! It will generate a command line file to be used with OpenVMS specific I Java $! "-V" option.  $!D $! It is assumed that Java131 is installed in the default directory. $!$ $! Java for OpenVMS can be found on:1 $! http://www.compaq.com/java/download/index.html  $!G $! This commandfile should be installed in and run from the [JDEV.BIN] i
 directory. $!J $! It is recommended to use a ODS-5 structured disk as the device to unzip$ $! (=install) the JDeveloper kit to. $!8 $! Unzip for VMS can be found at http://www.info-zip.org $!E $! A ODS-5 structured disk should also be used for the working space.NE $! Working space in this commandfile is placed in SYS$LOGIN. You can   change thisoH $! if SYS$LOGIN for instance is not on a ODS-5 structured disk, however  keep ina8 $! mind to use a Unix style syntax ( /DKB0/MY_DIR etc.). $!H $! If you don't have a ODS-5 disk, and you don't want to change a ODS-2  disk tooD $! a ODS-5 disk, you can create a LD disk. A LD disk is a file on a  normal disk,G $! that can be used as a (Logical) Disk with the help of the LD driver.a $!! $! The LD package can be found atn2 $! http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/freeware/ $!F $! To run JDeveloper you need a OpenVMS system with a X-Windows Motif  display. $!H $! It is likely you can run the OpenVMS based JDeveloper from a PC too,  if theG $! PC has a X-Windows server running, and you start it from a terminal G session @ $! from within the OpenVMS based X-Windows session manager (!!). $! $!P $!============================================================================== $! $initialize: $    ! $    ! Set error handlingu $    on warning then goto end  $    on control_y then goto end@ $    ws := write sys$output  $    !# $    ! Determine directory settingse, $    save_default = f$environment("default"). $    this_proc    = f$environment("procedure")3 $    this_dir     = f$parse(this_proc,,,"node") + -w-             f$parse(this_proc,,,"device") + -u,             f$parse(this_proc,,,"directory") $    ! $    set default 'this_dir'e% $    set process/parse_style=extended  $    ! $    ! Define logical namese $    define := define/nologa0 $    define jdev_conf_file   'this_dir'jdev.conf4 $    define jdev_option_file 'this_dir'jdev_java.opt $    !) $    ! Check if configuration file exists + $    if f$search("jdev_conf_file") .eqs. ""i	 $    theni: $        ws "%JDEV-F-NOCONF, configuration file not found  \''this_dir'JDEV.CONF\"s $        goto end 
 $    endif $    ! $main:% $    ! Create (temporary) option file. $    create jdev_option_file $    !# $    ! Add classpath to option fileo $    call jdev_add_classpath $    !5 $    ! Convert option file to undefined record formaty= $    convert/fdl=sys$input: jdev_option_file jdev_option_fileS RECORD)         FORMAT                  undefinedp $    ! $    ! Initialize JAVA9 $    @sys$common:[java$131.com]java$131_setup /output=nl:i $    ! $    ! Start JAVAr! $    java "-V" jdev_option_file - !     "-Dide.user.dir=/sys$login" -      "oracle.ideimpl.IdeMain" $    ! $end: 4 $    ! Close files opened by DCL (if not closed yet)? $    if f$trnlnm("jdev_config") .nes. "" then close jdev_confign? $    if f$trnlnm("jdev_option") .nes. "" then close jdev_option- $    !# $    ! Delete temporary option file:4 $    if f$search("jdev_option_file") .nes. "" then -'     purge/nolog/keep=4 jdev_option_filee3 $!    delete/nolog 'f$trnlnm("jdev_option_file")';*r $    ! $    ! Deassign logical names,J $    if f$trnlnm("jdev_conf_file")   .nes. "" then deassign jdev_conf_fileL $    if f$trnlnm("jdev_option_file") .nes. "" then deassign jdev_option_file $    !% $    ! Set original default directoryE $    set default 'save_default'e $    !	 $    exit  $!P $!============================================================================== $! $jdev_add_classpath: subroutine - $    open/append jdev_option jdev_option_filet% $    write jdev_option "-classpath ."rB $    open/read/error=end_read_conf_file jdev_config jdev_conf_file $read_conf_file: $    ! Read configuration line5 $    read/end=end_read_conf_file jdev_config confline|B $    confline1 = f$element(0,"#",f$edit(confline,"trim,compress"))* $    confline = f$edit(confline1,"upcase") $    !0 $    ! Check for AddJavaLibFile / AddJavaLibPath> $    libfile_found = f$locate("ADDJAVALIBFILE",confline) .lt.  f$length(confline)> $    libpath_found = f$locate("ADDJAVALIBPATH",confline) .lt.  f$length(confline)@ $    if .not. libfile_found .and. .not. libpath_found then goto  read_conf_file $    ! $translate_conf_line:t+ $    unix_path = f$element(1," ",confline1)n $    ! $    ! Add lib file  $    if libfile_foundt	 $    then ( $        write jdev_option ":",unix_path% $        goto end_translate_conf_linee
 $    endif $    ! $    ! Add lib pathd. $    call convert_path_unix_vms "''unix_path'" $add_all_zip_files:P- $    addfile = f$search("''vms_path'*.zip",1)  $    if addfile .nes. ""	 $    thent6 $        filename = f$parse(addfile,,,"name") + ".zip"1 $        write jdev_option ":",unix_path,filename  $        goto add_all_zip_filesa
 $    endif $add_all_jar_files:h- $    addfile = f$search("''vms_path'*.jar",1)h $    if addfile .nes. ""	 $    thenp6 $        filename = f$parse(addfile,,,"name") + ".jar"5 $        write jdev_option ":",unix_path,"/",filenameo $        goto add_all_jar_filesm
 $    endif $end_translate_conf_line:- $    goto read_conf_file $end_read_conf_file:? $    if f$trnlnm("jdev_config") .nes. "" then close jdev_configm? $    if f$trnlnm("jdev_option") .nes. "" then close jdev_option@ $endsubroutine $!P $!============================================================================== $!E $convert_path_unix_vms: subroutine ! p1 = unix_path ! return-symbol:   VMS_PATHH $! The unix path has to be converted to a VMS-path for use in F$SEARCH() $    unix_path = p1s $    new_path = "["o $    filename = "" $    dir_cnt = 0 $convert_next_dir:. $    curdir = f$element(dir_cnt,"/",unix_path) $    if curdir .nes. "/"	 $    theni- $        chk_previous_dir = curdir .eqs. ".."kF $        chk_dirname      = f$locate(".",curdir) .eq. f$length(curdir)G $        chk_filename     = f$locate(".",curdir) .lt. f$length(curdir) 3 .and. .not. chk_previous_dir
 $        !< $        if chk_previous_dir then new_path = new_path + ".-"D $        if chk_dirname      then new_path = new_path + ".''curdir'" $        if chk_filename
 $        then? $            filename = curdir $            goto end_convert  $        endif
 $        ! $        dir_cnt = dir_cnt + 1 $        goto convert_next_dir
 $    endif
 $end_convert:-* $    vms_path == new_path + "]" + filename $endsubroutine $!P $!==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:29:46 +0200 * From: Daniel Clar <Daniel.Clar@supelec.fr># Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!o* Message-ID: <3CE6574A.7E627D75@supelec.fr>  . Did you take a look at the "updated version" :    & Q: For OpenVMS customers who have made) a firm decision to move to UNIX, will youo  offer a migration path to HP-UX?  1 A: Yes. For our OpenVMS customers who have made aa2 decision to move to UNIX, we believe that HP-UX is4 an excellent choice, and we will work with them on a2 migration plan and provide tools and services that$ can help ensure a smooth transition.  O Yes the first version was ugly. But it seems that they want lead people leaving 4 OpenVMS to their Unix instead of other vendors ones.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:15:12 -04000' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>s# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!h& Message-ID: <3CE67E10.E8C28E2@gce.com>  E It seems likely to me that the HP folks knew almost nothing about VMSrD and considered it to be another flavor of Unix early on. Being a CEO> does not confer Deific (nor even angelic) intellectual powers.  G It also seems that there were concerns with merging HP and Compaq which D were considered more difficult (and were understood better) than the  business of what to do with VMS.  @ In short I think a lot of hoo-raw about foolish statements about0 conversion of VMS to phux\\\\HP-UX is premature.  H As for how VMS is marketed, actions speak louder than words. I hope they2 do better as part of HP than they did with Compaq.   Glenn Everhart     Daniel Clar wrote: > 0 > Did you take a look at the "updated version" : > ( > Q: For OpenVMS customers who have made+ > a firm decision to move to UNIX, will you5" > offer a migration path to HP-UX? > 3 > A: Yes. For our OpenVMS customers who have made ae4 > decision to move to UNIX, we believe that HP-UX is6 > an excellent choice, and we will work with them on a4 > migration plan and provide tools and services that& > can help ensure a smooth transition. > Q > Yes the first version was ugly. But it seems that they want lead people leaving 6 > OpenVMS to their Unix instead of other vendors ones.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2002 07:12:23 -0700- From: merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt)1 Subject: Re: Tivoli ABC for VMS = Message-ID: <b6bf97d5.0205180612.6b9533bf@posting.google.com>s  = We use it for 12 axps works great ,Not as convinient as local7B tapedrive backups but it is rock solid as far as good data in goodB data out (cheaper than DLTs hooked up to each vms system to ensure usable tapes). I even builtNE ,with the help of this group, a disaster recovery bootcd with minimumL VMSSE (cut out som none readonly compatible parts of vms) and ABC client soOC we can boot off the CD impersonate the restore node and restore then$ dead disk (used it a couple of times \      h johnparamonte@hotmail.com (jp) wrote in message news:<3367ac9.0205131056.4fad3649@posting.google.com>...F > Can anyone here give any feedback, positive or negative, on Tivoli's7 > ABC with OpenVMS? Does it use the VMS Backup utility?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:45:26 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Tivoli ABC for VMS0' Message-ID: <3CE68865.BF6624E3@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3CE5C78D.1C1A2BF6@fsi.net...A > > Rob Young wrote: >  > ...  > G > > >         Diasaster Recovery is for those that can't.  I believe in * > > >         Disaster Tolerant solutions. > >AL > > Who doesn't? How many "enterprises" can afford disaster "tolerance" of aL > > scale that would have survived 9/11? Sorry, Disaster Recovery is here to	 > > stay!  > M > Maybe not.  As usual, software is years behind making good use of available H > hardware:  with the right software, you could have a disaster-tolerantI > solution (for something like the 9/11 situation - requires only several-+ > hundred feet of separation between sites):  F I suppose so - I saw a picture in Thursday's Chicago Sun Times showingE the "crater" of "ground zero". The caption was talking about the last.E loads of debris being removed from the site (even the most gargantuanoD task eventually reaches a conclusion). The buildings quite literallyF "across" the street appear to have sustained some minor damage (mostlyH from the collapse, and not the impact itself). They might have made good% candidates for "nearby" backup sites.V  F The next question in my mind, however, would be: "Will the next attackG (or its after effects) be so devastating that such proximity would be as  liability rather than an asset?"  ! > using today's (high-quality but J > commodity) hardware for less than the cost of existing disaster-recoveryL > configurations (even assuming that those existing configurations don't useD > redundant storage but depend on recovery to solve *all* problems).  C In our shop (total storage 5+TB and rising), I dunno if that's evenfF within the realm of possibility, given the sheer volume of storage andH the fact we are FDA certified and required to maintain certain standards$ so as to maintain our certification.  D > Given the convenience and other value of essentially uninterruptedD > operation, and the fairly rapid progress that is being made towardK > commodity-hardware-based disaster tolerance, I wouldn't count on disastereB > recovery being the solution of choice for too many years longer.  F Given that so few companies actually choose it now - or can afford to,A is it really the "solution of choice"? Has it ever been? Dunno...a  
 >  Especially=C > given the potential synergy between disaster-tolerant storage and=N > locally-outsourced storage:  if you're going to run a couple of lines anywayN > for disaster tolerance, why not instead run them to an SSP which can then doI > that for you - at even lower cost and even greater separation distance,=K > possibly with temporary emergency server facilities near the remote site?-  E Is that possible given current telecomm. technology? (For "possible", H read "cost effective as compared to maintaining a 'hot site' contract").G (Yes, I am requesting the benefit of your insight, as opposed to my ownf knowledge/experience.)  L > The first SSP 'revolution' only existed because of the dot-com bubble:  itN > was largely a brute-force approach rather than one that really exploited theK > potential efficiencies of centralized storage.  I suspect the second wavea@ > will do better, and the hardware to support it already exists.  H True, with the advent of SAN technology, the hardware is available - butF is the available telecomm. infrastructure ready and is it equal to the demands of such in scale?    -- y David J. Dachtera) dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:24:22 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>c Subject: RE: Tivoli ABC for VMSoT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026606E4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   David,  H >>> True, with the advent of SAN technology, the hardware is available -F but is the available telecomm. infrastructure ready and is it equal to  the demands of such in scale?>>>  C While it obviously depends of what part of the globe you are in, iniD general, the telecom folks have huge amounts of speeds and bandwidthH available at costs that are a small fraction of what they used to be. InH addition, due to the current depressed telecom market, I suspect you canH negotiate some very attractive deals that would not have been possible a	 year ago.   
 Reference:1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/5/24567.htmlc9 "Bell Labs sets distance record for optical transmissions2 By John Leyden Posted: 25/03/2002 at 12:19 GMTs  @ Boffins at Bell Labs, the research and development arm of LucentH Technologies, have doubled the distance record for high-bandwidth, ultraF long-distance transmission by sending 2.56 terabits of information per! second over a distance 4,000km. "w  > "The transmission record was achieved using a 64-channel denseB wavelength division multiplexing (DWDM) system, where each channel. carried information at 40 gigabits per second"   Other pointers of interest:iF http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/rt/12000/vsr/prodlit/vsr_ds.htmG "Data traffic, particularly IP, continues to grow at an explosive pace.pH Leading Internet Service Providers (ISR) report bandwidth is doubling onF their backbones approximately every six to nine months. To accommodateB this growth, interface speeds on network switches and routers haveD increased from OC-3 to OC-48 in less than three years. Today ServiceH providers are demanding OC-192. To meet this demand and also address theE need to continually lower the cost-per-bit for IP transport, Cisco is5E working with open industry forums to deliver the world's first OC-192hG optical interface that is optimized for Intra-POP applications---OC-192n very short reach (VSR)."   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantg Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660= Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----9 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]=20T Sent: May 18, 2002 12:45 PMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma Subject: Re: Tivoli ABC for VMSo     Bill Todd wrote: >=20A > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message=20f# > news:3CE5C78D.1C1A2BF6@fsi.net...I > > Rob Young wrote: >=20 > ...l >=20G > > >         Diasaster Recovery is for those that can't.  I believe in:* > > >         Disaster Tolerant solutions. > >!J > > Who doesn't? How many "enterprises" can afford disaster "tolerance"=20I > > of a scale that would have survived 9/11? Sorry, Disaster Recovery=20c > > is here to stay! >=20F > Maybe not.  As usual, software is years behind making good use of=20 > available!H > hardware:  with the right software, you could have a disaster-tolerantA > solution (for something like the 9/11 situation - requires onlyn severale+ > hundred feet of separation between sites)n  F I suppose so - I saw a picture in Thursday's Chicago Sun Times showingE the "crater" of "ground zero". The caption was talking about the lastdE loads of debris being removed from the site (even the most gargantuancD task eventually reaches a conclusion). The buildings quite literallyF "across" the street appear to have sustained some minor damage (mostlyH from the collapse, and not the impact itself). They might have made good% candidates for "nearby" backup sites.e  F The next question in my mind, however, would be: "Will the next attackG (or its after effects) be so devastating that such proximity would be aa  liability rather than an asset?"  ! > using today's (high-quality buto; > commodity) hardware for less than the cost of existing=20rH > disaster-recovery configurations (even assuming that those existing=20I > configurations don't use redundant storage but depend on recovery to=20u > solve *all* problems).  C In our shop (total storage 5+TB and rising), I dunno if that's even F within the realm of possibility, given the sheer volume of storage andH the fact we are FDA certified and required to maintain certain standards$ so as to maintain our certification.  G > Given the convenience and other value of essentially uninterrupted=20sG > operation, and the fairly rapid progress that is being made toward=20tE > commodity-hardware-based disaster tolerance, I wouldn't count on=20 F > disaster recovery being the solution of choice for too many years=20	 > longer.d  F Given that so few companies actually choose it now - or can afford to,A is it really the "solution of choice"? Has it ever been? Dunno..."  
 >  Especially F > given the potential synergy between disaster-tolerant storage and=20J > locally-outsourced storage:  if you're going to run a couple of lines=20F > anyway for disaster tolerance, why not instead run them to an SSP=20I > which can then do that for you - at even lower cost and even greater=20nB > separation distance, possibly with temporary emergency server=20" > facilities near the remote site?  E Is that possible given current telecomm. technology? (For "possible",IH read "cost effective as compared to maintaining a 'hot site' contract").G (Yes, I am requesting the benefit of your insight, as opposed to my owni knowledge/experience.)  H > The first SSP 'revolution' only existed because of the dot-com bubble:  F > it was largely a brute-force approach rather than one that really=20D > exploited the potential efficiencies of centralized storage.  I=20H > suspect the second wave will do better, and the hardware to support it   > already exists.e  H True, with the advent of SAN technology, the hardware is available - butF is the available telecomm. infrastructure ready and is it equal to the demands of such in scale?d   --=20i David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  H Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2002 00:40 CDTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)=Y Subject: Re: [Q]  How do you set the SQO bit in the FAB (FAB, RAB, which field has this bs- Message-ID: <18MAY200200402694@gerg.tamu.edu>p  2 SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes...G }OK, how do you do that? I found an example, UFO_CONTIG.FOR, in SectionoG }8.6.1.3 of the VMS v6.2 Programming Concepts Manual, which is fine foreG }setting the file to be contiguous. And I showed this to our developer."G }He asked on how to find the mnemonic, which field, what symbolic name, + }from where, etc., has this SQO bit to set.  }Alan E. Feldman  A It's a bit in the "fop" field. Typical Fortran - I assume you are F using Fortran as you mention a .FOR example - usage would go something: like this (give or take varying styles in capitalization):           Include '($fabdef)'          Record /FABDEF/ fab  [...]iM         fab.fab$l_fop = FAB$M_SQO  ! file options, bitwise OR of FAB$M_ masksf [...]n  E When you are not familiar with it, there seem to be about a bazillionnD things you can specify in a fab, which is why it can be hard to findE exactly what you are looking for even if you know what it is supposeda to do. f  E You might want to have your developer extract the $fabdef module from K the text library and have a look inside. In the fabdef structure definitionnC all of the bitfields are defined, and if you search for "SQO" inthefF file you will find it - checking the surroundings of the FAB$S_SQO andB FAB$V_SQO paremeters will tell you what field they are part of andE what the other options for the field are (this is the same field thatfG is used, for example, to do defered writes: thats the FAB$M_DFW option,nC applicable to relative and indexed files, which is one bit lower inrB the mask than the SQO bit). It might not tell him anything useful,F but then again it might - even if only that this is one way of finding this stuff out.=   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2002 01:08 CDTp' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) Y Subject: Re: [Q]  How do you set the SQO bit in the FAB (FAB, RAB, which field has this b - Message-ID: <18MAY200201081015@gerg.tamu.edu>   2 SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes...E }Thanks. But I forgot to mention that we are using Pascal and that wed< }don't have Fortran. Also, we are running VMS v6.1 and v6.2. } B }Where else might this $fabdef be? Any furter guidance is welcome. }Thanks. }Alan E. Feldman   Check SYS$LIBRARY:STARLET.PAS.  F Vast swaths of anything relating to the base OS (system services, RMS,2 etc.) is in there - it is 5205 blocks long (ouch!)  	 Try this:   + $ search sys$library:starlet.pas "module $"'  9 and you'll find that there are some 257 modules in there, < including $FABDEF. Most of the other SYS$LIBRARY:*.PAS files% only have one or two modules in them.d   --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.274 ************************