1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 20 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 278       Contents: Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! India? Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! India?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?8 Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon8 Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon" Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMS& Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMS& Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMS* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside??? Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era.- Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning & Geting Data off a DEC Microvax 3100-95* Re: Geting Data off a DEC Microvax 3100-95+ Re: Getting Data off a DEC Microvax 3100-95  Re: HP commits to VMS again ...  Re: HP startup screen anyone?  Re: HP startup screen anyone?  Re: HP startup screen anyone?  Re: HP startup screen anyone?  Re: ICC question Re: ICC question RE: ISE just spammed me...D Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha sales+ Re: Newest version of DCPS and our problem.  Re: No new Alpha sales Re: print queue name- Re: Queue info via Web Server (Apache & WASD) - Re: Queue info via Web Server (Apache & WASD) ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts  Re: SMTP MX gateways2 somewhat off-topic: Shiva AccessPort Bridge/Router6 Re: somewhat off-topic: Shiva AccessPort Bridge/Router Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: System manager available Re: System manager available Re: System manager available  take a look for a very good link, Re: TCPIP$PRINTCAP.DAT/UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT file9 Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse 9 Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse 9 Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse 9 Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse 9 Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse 4 Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help needed4 Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help needed Volume shadowing and a disaster # Re: Volume shadowing and a disaster ; Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun! ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun! ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun! ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun! ? RE: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun! . Re: [Fwd: RE: Comments on HP officers' remarks  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 07:30:21 GMT , From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com># Subject: Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! India? 8 Message-ID: <hC1G8.1$P96.100451@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   Different company:  ' http://www.digitalindiasw.com/index.asp    b   : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CE69705.14397C54@Free.fr... I > http://www.digitalindiasw.com/financials/downloads/Digital-Q4FY2002.doc  >  > Just curious.  >  > D. > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans3 > Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htm 4 > --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:43:13 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> # Subject: Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! India? 8 Message-ID: <0lkheuo74mjmqliseb3on8ldhtf3stmvo9@4ax.com>  / On Mon, 20 May 2002 07:30:21 GMT, "Bob Knowles"  <bob.knowles@compaq.com> wrote:    >Different company:   D Not  entirely separate, Rich Marcello is a director of Digital IndiaA and Compaq (HP) owns 50% as I recall. This is also the subsidiary F which placed an ad saying "If VMS is your religion here is a chance toF work with God". As far as I can see Digital India is the example which( the rest of Compaq should have followed.  ( >http://www.digitalindiasw.com/index.asp >  >b > ; >"Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message " >news:3CE69705.14397C54@Free.fr...J >> http://www.digitalindiasw.com/financials/downloads/Digital-Q4FY2002.doc >> >> Just curious. >> >> D.  >> -- 5 >>   ------------------------------------------------ 5 >> MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr 3 >>   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France. 5 >> Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 1928 5 >> OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans 4 >> Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htm5 >> --------------------------------------------------  >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:31:29 GMT & From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? & Message-ID: <3CE8ECFB.815F7A02@hp.com>   Bart Zorn wrote: > I > Can you say anything about the availability of PL/I for OpenVMS on IPF? K > In other words, can we still use the best language on the best OS on IPF?   C There are no plans to port PL/I to Itanium. See the paper entitled  @ "Porting OpenVMS Applications to Intel Itanium Architecture" at ? http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms.html for more  ! information on compilers for IPF.   < ------------------------------------------------------------7 The above opinions and information are not necessarily  ! those of Hewlett Packard Company. < ------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 06:09:07 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ; Subject: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEENFAAA.tom@kednos.com>    Joshua,   B I don't know who you are, or where you get your (mis) information,? but Kednos owns the PL/I compiler, and I can assure you that we C very much intend to have a PL/I compiler available by the middle of ? 2004, provided of course that people actually start buying IPF, B which is not a foregone conclusion.  We expect to take 9 months to complete the port.  < So for you to state that there are no plans to port PL/I, is! not only careless but actionable.        >-----Original Message----- . >From: Joshua Cope [mailto:Joshua.Cope@hp.com]# >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:31 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com< >Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? >  >  >Bart Zorn wrote:  >>J >> Can you say anything about the availability of PL/I for OpenVMS on IPF?L >> In other words, can we still use the best language on the best OS on IPF? > C >There are no plans to port PL/I to Itanium. See the paper entitled @ >"Porting OpenVMS Applications to Intel Itanium Architecture" at? >http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms.html for more " >information on compilers for IPF. > = >------------------------------------------------------------ 7 >The above opinions and information are not necessarily " >those of Hewlett Packard Company.= >------------------------------------------------------------  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002    ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 08:14:02 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 3 Message-ID: <4naa1y01YasS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <f897700f.0205172334.2bdead20@posting.google.com>, sdk_joseph@msn.com (Shawn Joseph) writes:  > G > What is the best programming language for a newbie on VMS and why?  I H > know each language has it's own highlights, but I don't know what theyC > are.  Since I don't know a lot about these languages I guess I am G > looking for pro's and con's on each, what people would recommend as a F > best return on investment in time and money and what is likely to beG > in demand/supported for the forseeable future.  I will most likely be B > learning it all through self study as I'm sure many others have.  E    There isn't asy one best.  VMS is fairly neutral on which language C    you use.  If you use a C or C++ you may have a couple more steps C    to go through when passing arguments to system routines than you @    would with Fortran, but I wouldn't make a big case out of it.  E > It sounds like there are several languages supported on VMS.  Would H > anyone care to rank the top 5 in order of your own opinion and why you > feel that way?  G    This is likely to depend on what languages the poster knows, and how     well, my 2: 0    1) Fortran (because it's the mother language)!    2) C (because it's so popular) 8    3) Macro-32 (so you can learn what's really going on)
    4) JavaK    5) BLISS (it's so cool a good part of VMS is written in it, but not for         the faint of heart)   E > How would you rank the languages in order of difficulty to learn?         1) BLISS     2) Macro-64    3) Macro-32	    4) C++     5) COBOL   F > Is there one language that can do "most" or everything one needs?  I3 > know I am setting myself up with this question :)   ;    Any of them.  That's one of the great advantages of VMS.   F > If not, is there a logical order the languages should be studied and
 > applied?      1) determine the problem 3    2) determine which language matches that problem $    3) use the right tool for the job  H > What is the difference between C, C++ and Compaq C and Compaq C++, and > C/C++ for that matter?  H    C is C, and C++ is C++.  C++ is different from and more than C.  C isG    a popular but error prone programming language that vaguely reflects H    the PDP-11 architecture.  C++ is an object oriented hack on top of C,0    which can't keep track of the memory it uses.  G > Most of the references I have seen thus far for C have been for Unix, < > are there resources out there for programming in C on VMS?  ;    Just about anything that works in UNIX will work on VMS.   F > I am told that Java runs on VMS and is even more portable than C butE > requires additional overhead as it requires a runtime environment.   > Any thoughts on this?   F    We use VMS as our prime Java development platform, and the compiledA    code runs on VMS, MacOS, Windows, and UNIX.  It's somewhat and @    interpretted language so it's slower than a natively compiled    language.  H > I am looking for something long range I can pick up and something thatE > is going to be portable to other Operating systems.  I think DCL is E > pretty slick but is limited to VMS and from what I am told has many ; > limitations when compared to other programming languages.   <    DCL can be used as a programming languge, but I wouldn't.  A > I was considering C as I'm told it can be run on many operating  > systems and is very powerful.   G    And error prone.  Want to write a security hole?  It's easier if you 	    use C.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 07:28:18 -0700 , From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 4 Message-ID: <acb163$nqfvv$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  4 "Shawn Joseph" <sdk_joseph@msn.com> wrote in message7 news:f897700f.0205172334.2bdead20@posting.google.com... H > I have been working with VMS 7.2-1 for just over a year now and wantedE > to start getting into some entry level programming.  I have written H > many simply DCL procedures and I am currently reading/applying WritingF > Real Programs in DCL, 2nd edition.  I have no programming experienceG > but was looking to start out to help improve my skills and net worth.  > I have a few questions.   D Why not learn something modern?  I downloaded this the other day andE it's great.  Needs a C compiler undeneath however, but you never need 0 to look at the C code.  SmallEiffel is found at:  & http://smalleiffel.loria.fr/index.html   Jim   H p.s. "Small" does not indicate limited, it harkens back to the smalltalk
 ancestory.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:02:58 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 0 Message-ID: <3ce900da.86893506@news.process.com>  M On 20 May 2002 08:14:02 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   H >   This is likely to depend on what languages the poster knows, and how >   well, my 2:1 >   1) Fortran (because it's the mother language) " >   2) C (because it's so popular)9 >   3) Macro-32 (so you can learn what's really going on)  >   4) Java L >   5) BLISS (it's so cool a good part of VMS is written in it, but not for  >      the faint of heart) > H Finally someone mentioned BLISS!!!  (Although I personally find the last< comment misleading---I find programming in BLISS much easierJ than programming in C (when to use a "." is more natural to me than trying* to remember if I need "&" here or there).)  I One advantage BLISS has is that it is free now.  The main disadvantage is J that there aren't BLISS compilers for other platforms (or, rather, they'veJ never been released), but as long as you're writing VMS-specific programs,I BLISS isn't a handicap.  And since it has no RTL, you have to rely on the K VMS RTL functions (STR$, LIB$, etc), which are more reliable than the C RTL   routines (at least in the past).   Oh well.  I'll shut up now. 8-)    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 10:13:12 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 8 Message-ID: <fj4ieucrtkaqdbg8p94rfj3gnt704fqgta@4ax.com>  E And if you want to keep up with "fad" languages, there's also Java on  OpenVMS.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:17:07 GMT & From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? & Message-ID: <3CE921DD.9A61142F@hp.com>  @ Thanks for the correction; I'm pleased to hear that Kednos plans? to port their PL/I compiler. I work in OpenVMS Engineering, so  @ the more applications and languages that are ported to Itanium,  the happier I am!   ? The only information I have is on products owned and maintained > by Hewlett Packard; I know little about products maintained byC outside vendors. The PL/I information is from the "Porting OpenVMS  = Applications to Intel Itanium Architecture" white paper on  ' the OpenVMS website. It states in part:   @   "There are specific languages and dialects of languages which E    Compaq does not plan to make available for the Itanium platform.  G    Compaq will provide an Ada 95 compiler on the Itanium architecture  E    but will not port the existing Compaq Ada 83. Compaq has no plans -    to make PL/1 available."i  L http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OpenVMS_IPF_PORTING_WP.pdf  @ I'll put you in touch with the authors of the document; perhaps $ they can add a reference to Kednos.    Joshua Cope. OpenVMS Engineering- Hewlett Packard Companyg     Tom Linden wrote:6 > 	 > Joshua,D > D > I don't know who you are, or where you get your (mis) information,A > but Kednos owns the PL/I compiler, and I can assure you that we E > very much intend to have a PL/I compiler available by the middle ofbA > 2004, provided of course that people actually start buying IPF,tD > which is not a foregone conclusion.  We expect to take 9 months to > complete the port. > > > So for you to state that there are no plans to port PL/I, is# > not only careless but actionable.e >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 17:10:25 +0000w2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 1 Message-ID: <20020520171025.I66@eisenschmidt.org>n   --bygAmIonOAIqBxQB* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   
 Ouch. =3D)  L 10 years may not be "long" in the span of IT history, but I know of at leas=L t two fairly large financial systems that are in the process of replacing *=L all* their COBOL with Java. Not that I have anything against COBOL, I think=@  it's a fantastic and powerful transaction processing languauge.  L While the OOP paradyne may not be your cup of tea, I'll take Java over C++ =@ for developing using it any day of the week and twice on Sunday.  L Incidentally, JDK 131 for OpenVMS is fantastic - my thanks and praise (not =L that it means much to anyone). I didn't have to change a single line of cod=2 e that I wrote on a win32 machine to have it work.  G Unless the Voices are Mistaken, jlsue (jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com) Wrote: G > And if you want to keep up with "fad" languages, there's also Java ont
 > OpenVMS. >=203 > Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqn/ > (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)-   --=20 / John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>t6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  L FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turni= ng."   --bygAmIonOAIqBxQB' Content-Type: application/pgp-signaturel Content-Disposition: inline    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----p Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) * Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE86S4BH5fmozfjvvIRAt0GAKC2+ZR03QZ0O192yXcmPmvj1OiaUgCbBY+F VAkb10MPWSdoARONNtrfb8Y= =WRueh -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----P   --bygAmIonOAIqBxQB--   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:25:02 +0100m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>cA Subject: Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyono8 Message-ID: <sljheu4fjn44grvtu55if2om8154pb3bqt@4ax.com>  / On Fri, 17 May 2002 23:12:42 +0000 (UTC), "pos" ' <paul.osullivan3@btinternet.com> wrote:s  J >maybe some comments on what people actually thought of the content of theM >conference would be more useful. From a syadmin standpoint, look at the bodye >count:e1 >- CA were practically trying to hide their booth   F CA have just sold a division which markets and supports MANMAN on VMS.@ Just a few months after assuring us that it was still strategic.  
 > - no BMC+ >- no Heroix (big in Europe on VMS sysadminn >- no Openview :)t >e >pos > / >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messager@ >news:wFQE8.8684$ah_.779@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...# >> The following is excerpted from:r< >> http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/05/14/1646308 >> >>K >> "Live on Tape: Scott Stallard Key customer and employee visits precluded J >> Scott Stallard, the newly-minted head of the New HP's Business CriticalL >> Systems group, from attending the Lyon event. Mr. Stallard did assert hisK >> presence in a videotaped interview wherein he assured customers that the" >NewE >> HP will continue to aggressively promote and sell OpenVMS-based HPe4 >> AlphaServers as long as customer demand exists. " >>M >> *** (added comment) The big question is whether HP is be doing ANYTHING to7F >> actively STIMULATE demand of VMS, whether on Alpha today or IA64 in >several	 >> years.a >> >>J >> "We expect [customer demand] to exist for at least several years beyond >theJ >> 2004 introduction of EV79-based AlphaServers," Stallard said. Since the >NewM >> HP will continue to support HP AlphaServers for at least five years beyondnL >> their final sales date, customers can be sure that their Alpha investment1 >> will be protected well into the next decade. "a >>F >> *** (added comment) Nice about the support for Alpha for at least 5D >> additional years...that sort of thing is also mandated by federalM >> regulations, so HP isn't really going out of its way to be nice guys here.n >>I >> *** (added comment) But where are Stallard's comments about giving the-< >> marketing of VMS some prominence in the HP constellation? >> >>M >> Alpha: A Marvelous Future at the New HP Among the featured speakers duringMF >> Lyon Day One was Alpha Systems Division VP and General Manager RichI >> Marcello, who offered a multitude of reasons why it's safe to bet your 5 >> business on the New HP's Alpha and IPF technology.s >>I >> OpenVMS Group VP Mark Gorham followed up with a detailed review of theaG >> OpenVMS roadmap (again, no surprises here, except to competitors who  >falselyK >> claim that the New HP will abandon the OpenVMS customer constituency and H >> force users to embark on a near-term migration) and the status of the= >> VMS-to-IPF port (which is on track and ahead of schedule).a >>L >> We'll provide detailed coverage of the Marcello and Gorham presentations, >as I >> well as the presentations delivered by NonStop Division VP and General I >> Manager Pauline Nist, EMEA Alpha Systems Director Tom Yeates, and UNIXeH >> specialist Don Jenkins. Stay tuned for more in-depth ITUG/DECUS Joint* >> Conference coverage in the coming days. >> >>M >> *** (added comment) I don't think the issue is one of HP saying to currentsI >> VMS customers, "We're closing up the shop today. It's more an issue of,L >> whether VMS customers will be able to know with certainty that HP will beH >> actively promoting VMS to non-VMS customers of IBM, Sun, SGI, Windows >users,oK >> as the best alternative for their businesses. Only in that way can ISV'sy >behM >> comfortable in supplying products and services to the VMS marketplace. And-M >> only in that way can current and prospective customers be assured that VMSj@ >> is a safe place for their companies to invest the IT dollars. >> >> >> >b   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:23:13 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> A Subject: Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyonm8 Message-ID: <i9jheu49772hcds0jo4odt84mpbtatb62t@4ax.com>  C On Sat, 18 May 2002 01:21:55 GMT, Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>r wrote:  . >I'm sorry, I just can't let this slide by ... >gE >It's not like HP didn't "know" about OpenVMS prior to the merger: HP.K >& DEC went mano-a-mano in the mini-computer market for almost [1] 20 yearspG >(circa 80 - 95). They marketed MPE as a VMS competitor in a variety ofpD >hardware configurations. I refuse to believe that like Moses in theD >bulrushes, HPQ "found" OpenVMS and doesn't know the history of thatL >foundling. To credit their statements to "market ignorance" buys into their >disengenuous behavior.   C When Compaq bought Digital, HP distributed a sales 'coacher' to keycC sales staff to go after VMS sites in particular. The front cover of D internal material said "D|U|B|I|O|U|S as a play on the Digital logo.F The key message was that Digital had pissed off the VMS customer bases? so much that now was exactly the right time to go after key VMS F accounts (and Tru64). HP know all about VMS and the perception of only( grudging minimal support from its owner.  ) >Regards to one who is a Voice Of Reason,  >  >jec >t >[1]4 >    Didn't HP also have a competitor to the PDP-11? >?H >> Since Compaq never shouted VMS from the rooftops, the HP folks likely! >> didn't hear too much about VMS ) >> leading up to the close of the merger.i   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 05:26:34 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)m+ Subject: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMSp= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205200426.48754157@posting.google.com>C  @ At this point in time there are two _VERY SERIOUS_ problems with3 TCPIP services "OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 3"e   (1) The shared socket problem.D (2) The socket leak problem (mentioned earlier this year as a memoryF     leak problem, which it is - as it leaks non paged dynamic memory).   No public patches available.  E I'd like to say to the TCP/IP folks - You are doing a _LOT_ of damagenC by not getting these patches out. IMHO, Not a good game plan (can In help ?) ECO 4 ?    Thanks.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:36:39 +0000n2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>/ Subject: Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMSe1 Message-ID: <20020520143639.D66@eisenschmidt.org>o   --mJm6k4Vb/yFcL9ZU* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inlinet+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablea  L Just for my own sanity, is anyone else experiencing similar problems with 5= 0 ECO 3?  J Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Patrick Young (P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU) Wrote:B > At this point in time there are two _VERY SERIOUS_ problems with5 > TCPIP services "OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 3"e >=20  > (1) The shared socket problem.F > (2) The socket leak problem (mentioned earlier this year as a memoryH >     leak problem, which it is - as it leaks non paged dynamic memory). >=20 > No public patches available. >=20G > I'd like to say to the TCP/IP folks - You are doing a _LOT_ of damagepE > by not getting these patches out. IMHO, Not a good game plan (can Ia > help ?) ECO 4 ?u >=20	 > Thanks.u   --=20a/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>W6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  L FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turni= ng."   --mJm6k4Vb/yFcL9ZU' Content-Type: application/pgp-signaturea Content-Disposition: inlinea   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----o Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD)X* Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE86Qn3H5fmozfjvvIRApLAAJsG5QdMyzfuAGP10CIH21/hpMgnKACg67GE 3FGRdVVfLibR6QdxO/DNoeE= =VGFor -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----x   --mJm6k4Vb/yFcL9ZU--   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 10:58:43 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)/ Subject: Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMSh= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205200958.7a7be2a7@posting.google.com>d  n P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) wrote in message news:<55f85d77.0205200426.48754157@posting.google.com>...B > At this point in time there are two _VERY SERIOUS_ problems with5 > TCPIP services "OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 3": >   > (1) The shared socket problem.F > (2) The socket leak problem (mentioned earlier this year as a memoryH >     leak problem, which it is - as it leaks non paged dynamic memory). >  > No public patches available. > G > I'd like to say to the TCP/IP folks - You are doing a _LOT_ of damage2E > by not getting these patches out. IMHO, Not a good game plan (can I  > help ?) ECO 4 ?! > 	 > Thanks.   G you can't really blame the ucx team as their hands have been tied sincepE Palmer, and they are trying to play catchup ... that's why until theydH do you should be using TCPware or Multinet, although I would use TCPwareH permanently and it is the only IP stack for VMS based on the VMS kernel, and therefore runs crisper ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:27:41 +0100A% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>F3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)a8 Message-ID: <nqjheug3hskuc3mikr3gks2d6pnkvnotfs@4ax.com>  2 On Fri, 17 May 2002 18:58:32 +0200, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:c   >JF Mezei wrote: >> -N >> Has HP said *ANYTHING* about VAX ? I don't recall seeing anything about it.J >> For all we know, VAX-VMS has been declared mature with no new versions. >n> >About VAX no, but Mark did say that HP still supports PDPs...  A What all of them? Time to start putting these PDP-10 DEC-20s backG online then...   >D.b   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 07:51:28 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)b3 Message-ID: <8805EBz15toW@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  W In article <18MAY200202545203@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:e > G > Cross architecture boots have always been unsupported. Doable? Sure -wI > just be careful about what directory structure the thing boots from ande, > it *should* work. But it is not supported.  9    Guess again.  From the OpenVMS Cluster SPD (29.78.20):i  G       "All OpenVMS Cluster systens have the following software features-       in common:  	       ...-  B       "Cross-architecture satellite booting permist VAX boot nodesG       to provide boot services to Alpha satellites and Alpha boot nodes11       to provide boot services to VAX satellies."m  -    That sure doesn't sound unsupported to me./   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 02 13:52:40 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???0) Message-ID: <qkt9BMev46vL@elias.decus.ch>.  W In article <3CE569AA.D22ACAC4@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:EP > I just installed my ADSL modem and found that DHCP gave me address 192.168.1.2 > M > Obviously, this is not an Internet IP address, and I cannot either ping nors& > access my WEB server from "outside". >  > Why? > K Is this a modem or a router? I had to feed my IP address into my router andi. IIRC reset it to get it visible from the 'net.  M If you have a router, I'd recommend giving your systems fixed IP addresses insI the 192.168.0.0 range and not using DHCP. That way you can point incoming  requests at a specific system.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 02 15:36:42 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)-3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside??? ) Message-ID: <TpJxvgPoJ2yj@elias.decus.ch>j  \ In article <3CE6DA69.4FC2D5E4@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Michael Austin wrote:oH >> With DSL EXTERNAL ethernet modem/router configuration it is literally
 >> always on.o >  > With PPPoE service:I > L > What happens if your line has not "logged in" to the PPP server at the ISP, > side ? Will inbound requests get refused ? >    Yes.  O > Since the physical line is always on, how does the customer equipment know ifh7 > a login with username and password is needed or not ?e >   N Dunno what happens with modems, but the routers know the username and passwordL and simply keep trying if the connection is lost (e.g. when the ISP is doing
 maintenance).   H > How does a line get logged out ? If the modem detects there is nothingU > physocal on the other side of the ethernet ? (eg: single PC on ethernet turned off)h  O Again speaking routers only, they have their own OS and maintain the connection C whether any systems are connected to their ethernet port(s) or not.   M For users with dynamic IP addresses, they are typically "logged out" after 15 ? minutes or so of inactivity in order to reuse the IP addresses.s  L In Europe, it appears that the Ts & Cs are nowadays generally much kinder toM those who wish to run webservers and multiple systems. One thing to watch outmJ for is the existence of monthly transfer limits. One ISP I looked at had aI limit of something like 5 GB, after which they charge a few cents per MB..  H A sobering thought in that context - a couple of months ago I followed aM link from a Slashdot article to be greeted with a page saying the service hadyL been suspended since they had been hit with 40GB of downloads in the past 24 hours.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:50:11 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside??? ; Message-ID: <01KHYHNWI22A984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  F > I don't know about ADSL in France, but isn't your upstream data rate+ > going to be too slow to serve web pages? p  G ???  A web server over a 64 kbit/s ISDN line is fine.  OK, if you have LH lots of graphics etc perhaps not, but for "content-oriented" pages it's  fine.-   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:40:50 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>M Subject: Re: End of an era.2; Message-ID: <01KHYHC2MPAU984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  I > Well the time is soon approaching when 50+ OpenVMS VAX and AXP machinesnG > are going to be made redundant and replaced with new Win 2000 system.bF > The rest of the OpenVMS systems will be made redundant over the next > year or so.   I Would you do us keepers-of-the-flame a favour and email this information  F to Mark Gorham together with a) WHY you are doing this and b) whether " the Win 2000 system comes from HP?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 08:19:24 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>a Subject: Re: End of an era.n+ Message-ID: <3CE913FC.D9B5DABC@caltech.edu>f   "Leigh G. Bowden" wrote: > M > Well the time is soon approaching when 50+ OpenVMS VAX and AXP machines are L > going to be made redundant and replaced with new Win 2000 system. The restI > of the OpenVMS systems will be made redundant over the next year or so.o  L I hope your company has hired the extra support personnel who will be neededK once the Win2K machines start replacing the OpenVMS ones. Otherwise you cand, look forward to some very, very long nights.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 11:20:57 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: End of an era.93 Message-ID: <$TCnKDsho6ZT@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  U In article <3CE913FC.D9B5DABC@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:A > "Leigh G. Bowden" wrote: >> /N >> Well the time is soon approaching when 50+ OpenVMS VAX and AXP machines areM >> going to be made redundant and replaced with new Win 2000 system. The rest J >> of the OpenVMS systems will be made redundant over the next year or so. > N > I hope your company has hired the extra support personnel who will be neededM > once the Win2K machines start replacing the OpenVMS ones. Otherwise you cann. > look forward to some very, very long nights.  K I understood the first paragraph as indicating a single Windows 2000 systemu' would be replacing the 50+ VMS systems.M  D I think the appropriate method is to demand exclusive initial use ofE the Windows 2000 system before turning off the VMS systems, since theoA Windows 2000 system without a user load is likely to be better atd preparing an up-to-date resume.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 10:43:28 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>M6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning8 Message-ID: <a8hheukdatgjfnt5gn8ff29fh5pui6k84v@4ax.com>  @ On 19 May 02 15:06:23 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:    F >And the flaw in that is that V7.3 is _not_ a requirement for a GS320.  D To be fair I thought it was highly recommended because of all the MP locking improvements.h   >r >__0 >Paul Sture  >Switzerland   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 10:40:12 +0100r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning8 Message-ID: <mqfheu88tvqg9kl9hv3mfslgkc9a7f0e1k@4ax.com>  D On Fri, 17 May 2002 18:25:11 GMT, Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> wrote:    B >It IS possible to successfully use VMS in an academic environment@ >for administrative purposes on the miniscule IT budget a lot of >schools have for such things. e  D As I recall we had a cluster uptime of around five years on our dualF admin VAX 4600 cluster (with quorum disk). No crashes and  two rolling) upgrades. The systems were UPS protected.s  F It has always been my experience with VMS that any system crash can beE tracked down and dealt with either by workaround, patch or additional B redundant hardware. If a system suffers regular extended downtimesE then, most likely, its system manager(s) is incompetent. It really iseB that simple in the vast majority of cases in my experience  In theB nearly 4 years in my current position we have seen a couple of VAX? 7620 crashes which I tracked down to an IP stack problem. AfterHD installing appropriate patches the system never cashed again. In 2.5C years of running live on Alpha we have experienced one crash of one = node (lock manager error). A quick search of the DSN database>A immediately provided a solution and we have had no crashes since.   E One major exception here was Pathworks 5 which almost drove me to thea> funny farm. At one point we had to run for several months withF multiprocessing disabled on one (academic not admin) server to preventE several crashes per day but persistence did eventually pay off and weiE got the problems fixed. once we got Pathworks and UCX support to stopt/ passing the buck and start solving the problem.    >P >-Andy-n   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:40:08 +0100rU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>l6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning0 Message-ID: <acaqr8$c6d$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Alan Greig wrote:v  B > On 19 May 02 15:06:23 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) > wrote: >  >  > G >>And the flaw in that is that V7.3 is _not_ a requirement for a GS320.i >> > F > To be fair I thought it was highly recommended because of all the MP > locking improvements.n >     < Exactly, if you are to stand even a tiny chance of getting a> 32 way GS32 to deliver 4 x the throughput of an 8-10 way GS140 then you need 7.3w   Regards  Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 08:27:23 -0500,& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning8 Message-ID: <47uheu8o3jlfqhu5s94v7ar7oauvgcpp4r@4ax.com>  C On Mon, 20 May 2002 10:40:12 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  wrote:    E >As I recall we had a cluster uptime of around five years on our dualiG >admin VAX 4600 cluster (with quorum disk). No crashes and  two rolling-* >upgrades. The systems were UPS protected. >3G >It has always been my experience with VMS that any system crash can be F >tracked down and dealt with either by workaround, patch or additionalC >redundant hardware. If a system suffers regular extended downtimeseF >then, most likely, its system manager(s) is incompetent. It really isC >that simple in the vast majority of cases in my experience  In the C >nearly 4 years in my current position we have seen a couple of VAXr; >7620 crashes which I tracked down to an IP stack problem. e  D Well, to be fair to the system manager, I've been in situations with? intermittent hardware problems that caused strange behavior andd crashes.  F In one case, back around 1990, ethernet problems on one of the clusterE boot nodes caused all satellites to crash (invalid votes seen by satshB compared to the CI nodes).  Replacing the enet card would make theE problem go away ... for awhile anyway, but it would always resurface.nD Turned out the bulkhead cable from the enet card to the external AUIB connector was bad.  This is when I learned that it is often a goodD idea for at least one of the satellite nodes to have one vote.  If ID had done that before, only the node with the bad ethernet card would) have crashed, not the 10 satellite nodes.     1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqt- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)o   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 02 16:17:03 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)m6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning) Message-ID: <jHiS0GtScMce@elias.decus.ch>-  D In article <a8hheukdatgjfnt5gn8ff29fh5pui6k84v@4ax.com>, Alan Greig  <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:B > On 19 May 02 15:06:23 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) > wrote: >  > G >>And the flaw in that is that V7.3 is _not_ a requirement for a GS320.h > F > To be fair I thought it was highly recommended because of all the MP > locking improvements.k >    Desirable .ne. Requirement :-)   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:30:50 +0100c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning8 Message-ID: <je5ieugnduu5emk13p4oal6c72ira89k47@4ax.com>  D On Mon, 20 May 2002 08:27:23 -0500, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> wrote:  D >On Mon, 20 May 2002 10:40:12 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> >wrote:> >u >cF >>As I recall we had a cluster uptime of around five years on our dualH >>admin VAX 4600 cluster (with quorum disk). No crashes and  two rolling+ >>upgrades. The systems were UPS protected.  >>H >>It has always been my experience with VMS that any system crash can beG >>tracked down and dealt with either by workaround, patch or additionaliD >>redundant hardware. If a system suffers regular extended downtimesG >>then, most likely, its system manager(s) is incompetent. It really iscD >>that simple in the vast majority of cases in my experience  In theD >>nearly 4 years in my current position we have seen a couple of VAX< >>7620 crashes which I tracked down to an IP stack problem.  >aE >Well, to be fair to the system manager, I've been in situations with @ >intermittent hardware problems that caused strange behavior and	 >crashes.g  9 Yes, as I said "most likely" and "vast majority of cases"   G >In one case, back around 1990, ethernet problems on one of the clustereF >boot nodes caused all satellites to crash (invalid votes seen by satsC >compared to the CI nodes).  Replacing the enet card would make thesF >problem go away ... for awhile anyway, but it would always resurface.E >Turned out the bulkhead cable from the enet card to the external AUItC >connector was bad.  This is when I learned that it is often a goodl  B Yep, but you did the right thing and didn't just leave the problemC eventually getting to the actual cause. Just accepting a VMS system : running with regular crashes is not the right thing to do.  E >idea for at least one of the satellite nodes to have one vote.  If IEE >had done that before, only the node with the bad ethernet card would-* >have crashed, not the 10 satellite nodes.  + And you found a workaround. Now that's VMS!j >: >:2 >Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq. >(get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 03:32:17 -0700# From: mark@gowans.org (Mark Gowans)t/ Subject: Geting Data off a DEC Microvax 3100-95p= Message-ID: <287c86c0.0205200232.389f8bf2@posting.google.com>O   Hi,   C I've got a Digital Microvat 3100-95 which I need to get a couple ofi= files off from and onto a Solaris machine. Unfortunately, I'mtE completely unfamiliar with all things VMS/VAX so haven't really got av clue where to start.  E I've had a good trawl through the compaq/hp website and cant find anytF real specs for the 3100-95 which hasn't helped. I was hoping to find aB serial spec for a port on the machine and hookup a laptop then useB some form of terminal package to hook files off that way.. FailingB that, I can get a network connection to the machine - but wouldn't& really know how to procede from there.  @ Any thoughts / suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated,   Many thanks,   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 07:02:56 -04000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i3 Subject: Re: Geting Data off a DEC Microvax 3100-95a, Message-ID: <3CE8D7DD.AD1BBD60@videotron.ca>   Mark Gowans wrote:G > I've had a good trawl through the compaq/hp website and cant find anyrH > real specs for the 3100-95 which hasn't helped. I was hoping to find aD > serial spec for a port on the machine and hookup a laptop then useD > some form of terminal package to hook files off that way.. FailingD > that, I can get a network connection to the machine - but wouldn't( > really know how to procede from there.    ! What version of VMS do you have ?     H terminal devices on workstations generally appear as TTAn  (for instanceJ TTA2:) They would be 2 modular jacks on the back of the workstation. (someN models had modified modular jacks, newer ones has standard modular jacks).  Do- a google search for "MMJ" to get the pinouts.a  4 If the vax is already on a lan, you may want to try:X SHOW NETWORK   (may show decnet installed, or both decnet and tcpip in recent versions).   Typing the commands: 	UCX 	TCPIP	 	MULTINET F 		may show some IP stack present (type HELP once inside that utility).  V If you want to go the serial port route, get Kermit (or look for kermit on the system:? 	DIR sys$disk:[000000...]*kermit*.exe  to find if there is one.o  J and then kermit on the sun host or on your laptop. And you can then safely transfer the files.a   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:31:00 +0100 (MET)m9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-4 Subject: Re: Getting Data off a DEC Microvax 3100-95; Message-ID: <01KHYGZ2WWJ6984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>:  / > Subj:	Getting Data off a DEC Microvax 3100-95D  H Scanning through the subjects, I have to admit that I first parsed this I as "getting off on a DEC Microvax 3100-95".  Reminds me of those halcyon LA days when I used to hang out in alt.sex.fetish.dec-hardware.  :-)u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:33:33 +0100c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ( Subject: Re: HP commits to VMS again ...8 Message-ID: <m4kheugei6c5gpl7csqll1385cek3uvk9m@4ax.com>  A On 17 May 2002 17:05:37 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)o wrote:  g >uF >RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as itF >has under Compaq and to some extent was the same under Digital beforeG >that. It's a very, very capable operating system that has an extremely0E >large base of customers who are very loyal and don't want to move tojG >anything else and we're going to support them until they don't want toyB >use it anymore. And we're going to do that on Alpha now, and it's  E Can't you read between the lines. Show me the statement that says "we A will support Windows until (they) don't want to use it any more."r  > >going to be moved to the Itanium product family platforms andD >customers will be able to use OpenVMS for just as long as they want >to.  ' But we wish they would get the message.e   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:50:32 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)& Subject: Re: HP startup screen anyone?; Message-ID: <3ce8d4f8.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>y  1 Zane H. Healy (healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com) wrote: 0 > Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> wrote:J > > Who has a nice New HP startup screen to clean up my PWS configuration,/ > > with all these COMPAQ letters everywhere...r > > > Bah!  I prefer a nice d|i|g|i|t|a|l on my startup screen!!!!  B I have the "Alpha inside - repentium" logo on my hobbyist DEC 3000C (which BTW puts the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo in the Start Session box, ateA least under VMS 7.2-1H1). Don't know where I got it from, though.t   cu,n   Martin --  A                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmerw. Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 5 Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.del   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>& Subject: Re: HP startup screen anyone?@ Message-ID: <20020520125033.12009.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  , I allways said here that OpenVMS should have an official LOGO/MOTTO.   - It would avoid changing the Motif Screen froml Digital, Compaq, Hp, etc ...  % Anyone from the Marketing here ??????1   RegardsT   FC m2 --- Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:5 > Who has a nice New HP startup screen to clean up my  > PWS configuration, with allQ$ > these COMPAQ letters everywhere... >  > D. > -- A4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans3 > Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htm 4 > --------------------------------------------------     =====e ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?% LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experienceh http://launch.yahoo.com    ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 02 15:54:10 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)f& Subject: Re: HP startup screen anyone?) Message-ID: <iJ$QNqflBZg5@elias.decus.ch>   a In article <ac9bn102rna@enews1.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:20 > Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> wrote:R >> Who has a nice New HP startup screen to clean up my PWS configuration, with all% >> these COMPAQ letters everywhere...m > > > Bah!  I prefer a nice d|i|g|i|t|a|l on my startup screen!!!! >   K I hate to disppoint you, but upgrading to V7.3 / DWMOTIF V1.2-6 replaces ite with Compaq.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandt   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 17:27:44 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> & Subject: Re: HP startup screen anyone?; Message-ID: <01KHYIZWXRIS96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i  @ > > Bah!  I prefer a nice d|i|g|i|t|a|l on my startup screen!!!! > M > I hate to disppoint you, but upgrading to V7.3 / DWMOTIF V1.2-6 replaces itj > with Compaq.  F How easy is it to save the old version, and use it instead of the new  default?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:48:52 -0500i& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: ICC questione8 Message-ID: <ho2ieu05mtbl03u6ok6jj07i51khafkkiv@4ax.com>  ! On Fri, 17 May 2002 15:12:16 GMT, @ Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) wrote:  B >Yes, the SCSNODE name could be in the VALBLK for the lock.  In myF >case, I was already walking the list of locks using $GETLKI because aA >simple doorbell wouldn't work (I need to support multiple activeaF >servers and doorbells are really best geared towards chosing a singleG >active system per resource).  Given that I could already get the EPID,S6 >picking up the nodename locally was, well, trivial... >x  B I worked on an application once where a replacement for SYSMAN wasF implemented.  Every node in the cluster queued up CW locks to the same lock, with blocking ASTs.r  F Then when we wanted to issue an app startup, our code would queue up aA PW lock which would wake up all server processes on all nodes whoMD would immediately convert their locks, and then re-queue them as CW.D Our app would get the lock, and release it, depositing info into the value block.  A When the servers re-obtained their CW locks, they would read thisaC value and create a detached process (if it didn't already exist) to @ perform the action.  This allowed every server in the cluster to" perform the action simultaneously.  E I may have misremembered the lock types, but essentially the doorbell A locks queued were compatible, and used blocking ASTs, and the appcF would issue an incompatible lock that would be blocked by the servers' locks.  A The main point is that a doorbell clock doesn't have to be geared<+ toward a single active system per resource.i  < I believe the code algorithms actually came from books aboutD well-known algorithms.  Possibly even a Knuth volume (it's just beenD so long I can't recall all these details anymore).  If you use these/ algorithms you're less likely to run into bugs.i  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqs- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)w   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 15:28:26 GMTn? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)d Subject: Re: ICC questionu0 Message-ID: <3ce9155b.35375837@news.demon.co.uk>  @ While there are undoubtedly ways of getting doorbells to reflectC multiple active systems (hence 'best geared' rather than some othersE term), your example doesn't show this.  In its case the single activeh; system happens to be the 'client' rather than the 'server'.p  @ The requirements for what I'm doing are n<->m mappings, n active clients by m active servers.   Jim.  D On Mon, 20 May 2002 09:48:52 -0500, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> wrote:  " >On Fri, 17 May 2002 15:12:16 GMT,A >Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) wrote:t >rC >>Yes, the SCSNODE name could be in the VALBLK for the lock.  In myoG >>case, I was already walking the list of locks using $GETLKI because aoB >>simple doorbell wouldn't work (I need to support multiple activeG >>servers and doorbells are really best geared towards chosing a singleoH >>active system per resource).  Given that I could already get the EPID,7 >>picking up the nodename locally was, well, trivial...- >> >-C >I worked on an application once where a replacement for SYSMAN wasUG >implemented.  Every node in the cluster queued up CW locks to the same: >lock, with blocking ASTs. >oG >Then when we wanted to issue an app startup, our code would queue up agB >PW lock which would wake up all server processes on all nodes whoE >would immediately convert their locks, and then re-queue them as CW.sE >Our app would get the lock, and release it, depositing info into thea
 >value block.e >dB >When the servers re-obtained their CW locks, they would read thisD >value and create a detached process (if it didn't already exist) toA >perform the action.  This allowed every server in the cluster to # >perform the action simultaneously.- >-F >I may have misremembered the lock types, but essentially the doorbellB >locks queued were compatible, and used blocking ASTs, and the appG >would issue an incompatible lock that would be blocked by the servers'> >locks.n >0B >The main point is that a doorbell clock doesn't have to be geared, >toward a single active system per resource. >d= >I believe the code algorithms actually came from books aboutdE >well-known algorithms.  Possibly even a Knuth volume (it's just beentE >so long I can't recall all these details anymore).  If you use thesec0 >algorithms you're less likely to run into bugs. >w2 >Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq. >(get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)   Jim Johnsoni Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)i   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 07:10:51 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)# Subject: RE: ISE just spammed me... 3 Message-ID: <sxdbZDS9hnTA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <cUXZAKaclX$t@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:. > D > As I understand it, this was not a newsgroup post but a email spamE > sent to names possibly harvested from the newsgroup.  That is spam,h7 > out and out.  The definition of spam email is either:l >  > 	Unsolicited Commercial Emailw >    ora > 	Unsolicited Bulk Emailr >   L Yes, it was an email spam. I use the eisner.decus.org address format insteadG of the encompasserve.org format and it was the former that the spam was 
 addressed to.e  H They could only have got this by manually despamming my email address asD posted in this newsgroup and while I enjoy talking in email to otherI newsgroup members about VMS and none VMS subjects, I object strongly to aoI commercial vendor placing me on a mailing list for their products withouta my permission.  C Also, they managed to send the text/plain part as quoted-printable,F# making it unreadable with VMS mail.i   Simon.   -- jB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:18:05 +0100uU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>fM Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesl0 Message-ID: <acat2d$ct4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <ac3gbv$cri$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >> >>Rob Young wrote: >> >> >>9 >>Why not join Kerry, Freddy etc in a search for examplesa6 >>that support the thesis your are advancing with this7 >>apparent attempt at a joke, namely Compaq Alpha boxes, >>fast, Sun SPARC boxes slow.a >>9 >>Come up with some examples, don't use SPECint or SPECfpe; >>particularly now that the Turkey that voted for Christmasi8 >>AKA Freddy let the cat out of the bag by claiming that: >>optimisations for SPECfp were unlikely to be usefull for >>user code. >> >> > G > 	I won't jab at that windmill Andrew.  Give it time.  Folks do indeedwD > 	wait and anticipate well engineered high-end kit, whether storageG > 	or servers.  The AlphaServer 4100 was such a resounding succes, theysE > 	sold many before FRS.  I am sure Sun has done the same.  Likewise,sD > 	Compaq/HP is selling a ton of the HSV (Enterprise Virtual Array). >e    : You won't jab at the windmill, so you admit that trying to9 show that your huffing and puffing squirrels jibe is truei9 would be impossible and backfire. Good stop making it itst# as tired as your attempt at a joke,e  6 You also appear to be telling people to wait a bit the: inference being that you will have something worth talking about in the future.  < Interesting, the competitive situation with respect to Alpha9 performance hasn't changed in the last 5 years, so it wasC9 always uncompetitve and you are suggesting just extendingm$ that evaluation period a bit longer.  : Now when did I hear that last ?? Ohh I remember it was you
 pre WildFire.o  2 If we wait long enough Alpha will cease to exist !    * > 	Folks, check out this Register article: > 4 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/25321.html > B > 	Good overview of direction.  And Mr. Elias tells us out of band* > 	virtualization is the winner!   Hooray! >  > 6 >>A the moment the only tired ragged looking squirrels1 >>around here are the varmits that Compaq ship in  >>AlphaServers.  >> > @ > 	Forgot to mention... the funniest part was the squirrels wereC > 	wearing tiny little sunglasses.  No doubt to shield their tender ; > 	eyes from the reflection coming off their Zinc Whiskers.  >     < Rob the only tired varmit is you, you have been making theseF sad tired Alpha is great SPARC isn't claims for as long as I have been< subscibing to this group and for all of that period you have# been unable to justify your claims.o  = You now seem unable to make the claim directly so you have to ! make it appear to be a joke, sad.    Regardst Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 09:07:26 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young).M Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesl3 Message-ID: <4J$JIc5UqK8a@eisner.encompasserve.org>i   In article <acat2d$ct4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: >  >> In article <ac3gbv$cri$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:p >> a >>>  >>>Rob Young wrote:k >>>- >>>- >>>-: >>>Why not join Kerry, Freddy etc in a search for examples7 >>>that support the thesis your are advancing with thisR8 >>>apparent attempt at a joke, namely Compaq Alpha boxes >>>fast, Sun SPARC boxes slow. >>>k: >>>Come up with some examples, don't use SPECint or SPECfp< >>>particularly now that the Turkey that voted for Christmas9 >>>AKA Freddy let the cat out of the bag by claiming that ; >>>optimisations for SPECfp were unlikely to be usefull forr
 >>>user code.a >>>  >>>o >> eH >> 	I won't jab at that windmill Andrew.  Give it time.  Folks do indeedE >> 	wait and anticipate well engineered high-end kit, whether storagetH >> 	or servers.  The AlphaServer 4100 was such a resounding succes, theyF >> 	sold many before FRS.  I am sure Sun has done the same.  Likewise,E >> 	Compaq/HP is selling a ton of the HSV (Enterprise Virtual Array).k >> >  > < > You won't jab at the windmill, so you admit that trying to; > show that your huffing and puffing squirrels jibe is truea; > would be impossible and backfire. Good stop making it its % > as tired as your attempt at a joke,s >     	No.. the analagy is a good one.  8 > You also appear to be telling people to wait a bit the< > inference being that you will have something worth talking > about in the future.     	More worth talking about.   > > > Interesting, the competitive situation with respect to Alpha; > performance hasn't changed in the last 5 years, so it wase; > always uncompetitve and you are suggesting just extending-& > that evaluation period a bit longer. >   & 	No.  They are still very competitive.  < > Now when did I hear that last ?? Ohh I remember it was you > pre WildFire.e >   ? 	I was admittedly taken in.  Case in point.  Best local latencyeB 	in the industry.  That number turned out to be 320 ns (or 330 ns)B 	on QBB but 960 ns off QBB.  The 320 ns at the time wasnt' a world> 	beater number and the off QBB number was/is rather punishing.  ; 	Things get much better in Marvel and worst case numbers in-? 	a 64 processor system are equal to best numbers in a Wildfire.0C 	Local CPU latencies of 75 ns are world better.  I believe the best 5 	single CPU numbers around are on or near 170-190 ns.5     > + >> 	Folks, check out this Register article:b >> s5 >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/25321.htmle >> iC >> 	Good overview of direction.  And Mr. Elias tells us out of bandm+ >> 	virtualization is the winner!   Hooray!i >> e >>  7 >>>A the moment the only tired ragged looking squirrelss2 >>>around here are the varmits that Compaq ship in >>>AlphaServers. >>>t >> eA >> 	Forgot to mention... the funniest part was the squirrels were'D >> 	wearing tiny little sunglasses.  No doubt to shield their tender< >> 	eyes from the reflection coming off their Zinc Whiskers. >>   >  > > > Rob the only tired varmit is you, you have been making theseH > sad tired Alpha is great SPARC isn't claims for as long as I have been> > subscibing to this group and for all of that period you have% > been unable to justify your claims.d > ? > You now seem unable to make the claim directly so you have toa# > make it appear to be a joke, sad.  >   C 	No.  My joke is the fact that a SPARC box is powered by squirrels. B 	Your employer is shipping nearly the weakest CPUs in the industryA 	and when going head to head with others on large Oracle RFPs youiA 	are at a decided disadvantage as your per-CPU costs times numberw0 	of required CPUs often leave you uncompetitive.   				Robh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:03:23 +0100|U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>bM Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha sales,0 Message-ID: <acb37s$ep0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <acat2d$ct4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >> >>Rob Young wrote: >> >> >>>In article <ac3gbv$cri$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:a >>>2 >>>0 >>>>Rob Young wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>; >>>>Why not join Kerry, Freddy etc in a search for examplesn8 >>>>that support the thesis your are advancing with this9 >>>>apparent attempt at a joke, namely Compaq Alpha boxes  >>>>fast, Sun SPARC boxes slow.u >>>>; >>>>Come up with some examples, don't use SPECint or SPECfp.= >>>>particularly now that the Turkey that voted for Christmasm: >>>>AKA Freddy let the cat out of the bag by claiming that< >>>>optimisations for SPECfp were unlikely to be usefull for >>>>user code. >>>> >>>>> >>Interesting, the competitive situation with respect to Alpha; >>performance hasn't changed in the last 5 years, so it wash; >>always uncompetitve and you are suggesting just extending0& >>that evaluation period a bit longer. >> >> > ( > 	No.  They are still very competitive.    ? So if you are still maintaining that they are still competitiveA: produce something that justifies your claim that they are.   Put up or shut up.     >  > < >>Now when did I hear that last ?? Ohh I remember it was you >>pre WildFire.i >> >> > A > 	I was admittedly taken in.  Case in point.  Best local latency_D > 	in the industry.  That number turned out to be 320 ns (or 330 ns)D > 	on QBB but 960 ns off QBB.  The 320 ns at the time wasnt' a world@ > 	beater number and the off QBB number was/is rather punishing. > = > 	Things get much better in Marvel and worst case numbers in?A > 	a 64 processor system are equal to best numbers in a Wildfire.2E > 	Local CPU latencies of 75 ns are world better.  I believe the bestr7 > 	single CPU numbers around are on or near 170-190 ns.  >  >     9 So you are asking people to extend the evaluation period.n  < Compaq/Digital customers have had two generations of servers9 which you made claims for which you could not justify and 4 now you want them to wait for the third generation ?  - Don't you think its time you cut your losses.l     >  >t? >>You now seem unable to make the claim directly so you have to0# >>make it appear to be a joke, sad.i >> >> > E > 	No.  My joke is the fact that a SPARC box is powered by squirrels.nD > 	Your employer is shipping nearly the weakest CPUs in the industryC > 	and when going head to head with others on large Oracle RFPs you C > 	are at a decided disadvantage as your per-CPU costs times numberc2 > 	of required CPUs often leave you uncompetitive. >     = Buzzt, Rob large Sun's deliver better per CPU throughput than-? AlphaServers on all the DBMS based benchmarks published by both  Sun and Compaq.s  > You know this, we all know this and Oracles own Apps benchmark: illustrates this so why keep making the same old claim. We, don't suffer on a per-CPU basis Compaq does.  ; You are amazing yet again a claim that cannot be backed up.d0 Another joke thats on you. When will you learn ?   Regardsw Andrew Harrisonf   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 11:09:28 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)oM Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesu3 Message-ID: <YsG1NxOGgAaw@eisner.encompasserve.org>c   In article <acb37s$ep0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >    >> i) >> 	No.  They are still very competitive.e >  > A > So if you are still maintaining that they are still competitive,< > produce something that justifies your claim that they are. >  > Put up or shut up. >   5 http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.aspe( http://www.compaq.com/hpc/news/news.html  ; 	Your CPU is so under-powered , you haven't won a large HPCn? 	bid in quite some time.  Couple that with the fact the Aussiesa> 	took a big hit with Zinc Whiskers and your reputation in that? 	space among scientists took a big public and behind-the-scenes 	 	hit too.    >  >> s >> a= >>>Now when did I hear that last ?? Ohh I remember it was youi >>>pre WildFire. >>>k >>>u >> rB >> 	I was admittedly taken in.  Case in point.  Best local latencyE >> 	in the industry.  That number turned out to be 320 ns (or 330 ns)aE >> 	on QBB but 960 ns off QBB.  The 320 ns at the time wasnt' a worldsA >> 	beater number and the off QBB number was/is rather punishing.  >> l> >> 	Things get much better in Marvel and worst case numbers inB >> 	a 64 processor system are equal to best numbers in a Wildfire.F >> 	Local CPU latencies of 75 ns are world better.  I believe the best8 >> 	single CPU numbers around are on or near 170-190 ns. >> s >> t >  > ; > So you are asking people to extend the evaluation period.-  7 	Not at all.  They are still competitive with Wildfire.o   > > > Compaq/Digital customers have had two generations of servers; > which you made claims for which you could not justify and 6 > now you want them to wait for the third generation ? >   8 	Not only are they waiting for a 3rd generation but they3 	are also winning bids with the current generation.i  / > Don't you think its time you cut your losses.t  > 	Not at all.  Early evaluators are very impressed with Marvel.  @ >>>You now seem unable to make the claim directly so you have to$ >>>make it appear to be a joke, sad. >>>4 >>>- >>  F >> 	No.  My joke is the fact that a SPARC box is powered by squirrels.E >> 	Your employer is shipping nearly the weakest CPUs in the industryeD >> 	and when going head to head with others on large Oracle RFPs youD >> 	are at a decided disadvantage as your per-CPU costs times number3 >> 	of required CPUs often leave you uncompetitive.o >> o >  > ? > Buzzt, Rob large Sun's deliver better per CPU throughput thansA > AlphaServers on all the DBMS based benchmarks published by bothu > Sun and Compaq.E > @ > You know this, we all know this and Oracles own Apps benchmark< > illustrates this so why keep making the same old claim. We. > don't suffer on a per-CPU basis Compaq does. >   D 	No, you do indeed.  But you haven't shipped tpmCs in quite sometime= 	due to the beatings.  You have a loan TPC-C version 5 entry:g  A http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_results.asp?orderby=hardware = http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_results.asp?orderby=dbmsa  A 	Are there Oracle / Sun / tpmC that aren't more than 2 years old?i  @ 	If so, where are they?  They don't appear to be there either by 	hardware nor RDBMS.  : 	Also, that loan Sun entry... is running the ever popular:  & SymfoWARE Server Enterp. Ed. VLM 3.0    < 	Never heard of it.  I would like to learn more, but all the& 	Google hits appear to be in Japanese.  = > You are amazing yet again a claim that cannot be backed up.    	Not at all.  See above.  2 > Another joke thats on you. When will you learn ?   	Please.  Give me a break.   				Robs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 17:54:32 +0100bU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>hM Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesu0 Message-ID: <acb9om$ghq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <acb37s$ep0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  > ) >>>	No.  They are still very competitive.n >>>  >>A >>So if you are still maintaining that they are still competitive < >>produce something that justifies your claim that they are. >> >>Put up or shut up. >> >> > 7 > http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asps* > http://www.compaq.com/hpc/news/news.html >     5 Sun hasn't done a TPC-C benchmark on either the F6800n7 or the F15000. So you don't have any Sun to compare the  GS320 result with.  = However Sun has done TPC-H, better result per CPu and overall 9 than a GS320 on a Sun F15000 and a better cost per query.i   Oracle Apps ditto.
 SAP ditto.  8 In addition the result you mention is awfull relative to7 SuperDome, IBM P Series etc all of which Sun outperforme$ on the 3 benchmarks I covered above.  7 Terrible example Rob how about coming up with somethingo better.       = > 	Your CPU is so under-powered , you haven't won a large HPCdA > 	bid in quite some time.  Couple that with the fact the Aussiest@ > 	took a big hit with Zinc Whiskers and your reputation in thatA > 	space among scientists took a big public and behind-the-scenesy > 	hit too.r >     > The Aussies replaced a E10000 which is as you may have noticed5 a Sun which cam out arround the same time as an 8400.i  A But HPC hardly makes a dent on the overall server market which is B primarely integer and dominated by DBMS's, where are your examples: to back up the claims made for Alpahservers in this space.  * Ahh we had them TPC-C, not a good example.  < Incedentally I hope the Aussies didn't buy the Alphas on the9 basis of SPECfp results. After Freddies claim that SPECfpj2 optimisations would not be usefull for users code.    ? >>Buzzt, Rob large Sun's deliver better per CPU throughput thanoA >>AlphaServers on all the DBMS based benchmarks published by boths >>Sun and Compaq.r >>@ >>You know this, we all know this and Oracles own Apps benchmark< >>illustrates this so why keep making the same old claim. We. >>don't suffer on a per-CPU basis Compaq does. >> >> > F > 	No, you do indeed.  But you haven't shipped tpmCs in quite sometime? > 	due to the beatings.  You have a loan TPC-C version 5 entry:> > C > http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_results.asp?orderby=hardwaren? > http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_results.asp?orderby=dbmse >     > As I said earlier bad example try something else, incedentally; why are you trumpeting a result where the GS320 (the worldst9 fastest server if you believe Compaq) is actually 3rd ande9 less than 5% faster than a much smaller, much cheaper IBMe> which didn't have to use OPS to get a decent result. You would( seem to be running out of feet to shoot.         > 	Please.  Give me a break. >     4 If you prove that yopu deserve one then you will get one at the moment you don't.  6 You need to do much better than the tired TPC-C mantra% that you and Kerry keep trotting out.s     Regards  Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 15:09:38 GMTm0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>4 Subject: Re: Newest version of DCPS and our problem.; Message-ID: <200520021104145368%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>t  / [[ This message was both posted and mailed: seea;    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]   G In article <aus-92BCBE.23015917052002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, Hans , Magnus Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote:  G > What is the newest version of DCPS ? We currently use DCPS 1.8, OVMS u? > 7.2-1, TCPIP 5.1 and our own home brew   HP4050$DEVCTL plus  s) > "ip_rawtcp/n.n.n.n:9100" on the hp4100.c  @ The latest released version is V2.0.  V2.1 is now in field test.  E > We're sporadically plagued by hung DCPS queues which look like the ! > listing below. > J > 1) Could the problem be that the DCPS queue is told that the printer is K > busy with a job from another PC and never gets a signal that the printer n > is available?  > - > 2) Does the newest DCPS solve this problem?  >  > $show queue:F >  Printer queue HP4100_1, busy, on V99::"ip_rawtcp/141.27.96.6:9100",- >   mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)o > 6 >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------8 >     707  B2002011184_7   SCHUBERT          4  Printing7 >     708  B2002011185_7   SCHUBERT          4  Pending 7 >     703  B2002011082_7   SCHUBERT          4  Holdingk7 >     704  B2002011084_7   SCHUBERT          4  Holding-  D You're currently running the LaserJet 4100 printer as an unsupportedB printer, but this shouldn't cause the problem you are seeing.  I'dD suggest you run the DCPS V2.1 field test to see if the problem still occurs.s  ' I'll send you the field test agreement.u   Paul   -- m  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringn   Hewlett-Packard Company_   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:51:23 +0100bU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>o Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales 0 Message-ID: <acargc$cep$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,  >  > ? >>>>The UK market numbers support your view. Alpha revenues arei >>>>I > according to the latest report down to their lowest share of the marketSF > for 3 years at 4.6% with unit volumes at an all time low as well.<<< >  P< > I would be careful about jumping on market share numbers.  >      Why ??    8 Preserving or improving your market share in a declining market is the key.  5 As your marketing folks if you don't understand this.     5 There has been an across the board decline in capitale3 expenditure it isn't just a dot com issue. When then5 across the board decline is reversed then the playersT8 who gained or maintained market share during the decline5 are better placed to reap the benefits of the upturn.e  3 If the latest market data for the UK (emerging from 4 recession) are indicative then Alpha is worse placed2 than any other platform in the datacenter space to benefit from the upswing.p     >  > Those in glass houses ...l >   = Quite, I never claimed that Sun's numbers were impressive, it = sad that you seem unable to realise that yours are no better..   As I said Glass houses   Regardse Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 08:20:15 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)b Subject: Re: print queue namec3 Message-ID: <JL7hGR$JxtHg@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  T In article <ac7cgn$dgj$1@news1.kornet.net>, "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> writes:K > How/Where do I set and assign a queue name to SYS$PRINT so I can print it 9 > without specifying a queue name everytime when I print?h > Thank youh  F    Usually the system manager creates an actual queue named SYS$PRINT,G    or defines a system-wide logical name SYS$PRINT pointing to a queue.r  H    You can assign whatever queue you want to SYS$PRINT in your login.com<    and it will work for every login or batch job after that.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2002 06:29:47 GMT5 From: ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au (Ian Burgess)l6 Subject: Re: Queue info via Web Server (Apache & WASD). Message-ID: <aca54r$uce$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>  ] In article <3ce850bf.444120842@news.wcc.govt.nz>, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) writes:r >Hi All, >>E >I've got a Web Page for our Frontline Staff that allows them to showo< >the full details of Printer Queues (either selected or all) >>B >The problem I have is that the /Description label done during theB >Queue Init places the description within a couple of <> brackets. >r7 >So, on VMS show queue /full shows the description like> ><Queue For Rob> >.A >Alas, when this comes to display on the Web Page the Description 5 >disappears, because it sees it as an HTML statement.f > 9 >So the nice description gets translated to a blank line!  > G >I've tried with <PRE> and without but the display doesn't cough up the 
 >description.S >CE >I'm sending this via a GET then just running a Command Procedure viad >CGI.l >  >Any hints?o >a >TIA as always.  >j >Rob.y   How about this?   0   $ Set queue fred /description=">Fred Printer<"   = Show queue, and your browser, will both show <>Fred Printer<>k   Ian Burgess  University of Queensland I.Burgess[at]its.uq.edu.au www.its.uq.edu.aul   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 05:47:17 -0700 (PDT)a. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>6 Subject: Re: Queue info via Web Server (Apache & WASD)@ Message-ID: <20020520124717.48109.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>  + What I want more from the Queue Manager is:2   $ SHOW QUE queue-name/LASTJOBU  2 Server queue APSV, idle, on C16001::, mounted form0 DEFAULT, Last Printed Job:  14-MAY-2002 10:20:00   For exampleR   Regardsl   FC e    . --- Rob Buxton <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote:	 > Hi All,n > 2 > I've got a Web Page for our Frontline Staff that > allows them to showS5 > the full details of Printer Queues (either selectedn	 > or all)e > 3 > The problem I have is that the /Description label3 > done during thet6 > Queue Init places the description within a couple of > <> brackets. > 3 > So, on VMS show queue /full shows the description  > like > <Queue For Rob>> > 6 > Alas, when this comes to display on the Web Page the
 > Descriptiont6 > disappears, because it sees it as an HTML statement. > 4 > So the nice description gets translated to a blank > line!o > 3 > I've tried with <PRE> and without but the displays > doesn't cough up the >  > description. > 0 > I'm sending this via a GET then just running a > Command Procedure via  > CGI. >  > Any hints? >  > TIA as always. >  > Rob.     =====u ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?% LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience  http://launch.yahoo.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 10:19:47 -0400r1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>i* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts2 Message-ID: <3CE90603.71B5E82D@clarityconnect.com>  B The DS20L is a box that was built and targeted for a very specificD market and customer.  If someone has a requirement for a boatload ofD systems running VMS for which the DS20L would be an exact fit I sureF that your sales person would be happy to get folks involved that could, discuss the cost to qualify VMS on this box.   Paul Repacholi wrote:u > = > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:y > P > > > Interesting that thew new DS20 has a SCISI controller  with a mention "for > > > Linux only". >  > > This is the DS20L. >                  ^5 > > > Can anyone care to explain what this is about ?p > L > > There was a thread here a while back about this being a very specialisedC > > box and not supported on VMS---or do you have another question?t > 0 > So is this a Not-Blue box, or a Not-White box? >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.tB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   -- aC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYa0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@HP.com				- since 1975 or sov 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:16:36 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>p Subject: Re: SMTP MX gatewaysn; Message-ID: <01KHYGG7MVTE984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h  I > Slightly odd question her, the following example is straight out of thed	 > manual:  >  > TCPIP> show mx relay.abc.com n > C > The question is, if I don't put them in the Good-Clients, and if e > TCPIP> show config smtp K > shows my alternate and general gateways as being undefined, then the SMTPnJ > server running on the machine won't have anything to down with the hosts > show above, will it?  I Disclaimer: I have never run an SMTP relay on VMS (and I am STILL trying tF to figure out the algorithm SMTP uses when deciding whether to accept  incoming mail).a  H I think the good-clients stuff is related to anti-spamming stuff, which D is relatively new.  Probably, the good-clients stuff doesn't matter ( unless you have turned anti-spamming on.  B As far as the alternate gateway goes, I think you have to have it E defined to send mail at all, more or less, independent of MX records./   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 18:34:22 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h; Subject: somewhat off-topic: Shiva AccessPort Bridge/Routerd; Message-ID: <01KHYKXJS7HS96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>p  I I bought a used Shiva Accessport Bridge/Router, serial number SAP153571,  F version 2.1p4 (2MB) 18 Nov 99, ISDN software SpiderISDN V4.00.00[0A],  ETS 300 102 (Euro ISDN).  F At location A I have hobbyist VMS machines behind an ISDN router.  In I this case, I have fixed, routable IP addresses.  It is a different model  I than the router above and was more or less configured by the ISP, though  : I have managed to understand most of the functions by now.  B Basically, I want to have the same setup with the above router at E location B, but since I don't need any incoming connections (but see fE below), I can use non-routable addresses for the VMS machine and the o router.n  F At the moment, the VMS machine and the router can ping each other and B the ISDN router, through the TEST function, appears to be able to 2 successfully place calls to external ISDN numbers.  9 What is completely confusing me about this router is the mF username/password setup.  I had assumed it would want, per "circuit", I ISDN number to be called, username and password.  Instead, it asks me if oH I want "PAP" or "CHAP" etc and apparently wants usernames and passwords - from the other end of the connection as well.N  ! Obviously, I'm missing something.   , Does anyone know anything about this router?  G It appears to be configured OK otherwise, so when the authorization is  I straightened out, things should be OK and I would expect things to "just wF work" when dialing a number which works fine from a PC and prompts me  for username and password.  E On a related note: another alternative would be to dial in to my own aG router at location A (since the main purpose of an internet connection  G at location B would be to reach location A---by the way, can I somehow nG bridge the two so that A and B appear to be on the same LAN as opposed SC to connected only via the internet?).  In that case, should I use anF different number than the one it uses to connect to the ISP?  (I'm notE completely sure how the "two lines, three numbers" are implemented in- practice.) p  I Since this is rather off-topic, feel free to email just me and I'll post oG a summary in the context of "putting a VMS machine on the internet via   an ISDN router".   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 19:27:34 +0100 (MET)/9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ? Subject: Re: somewhat off-topic: Shiva AccessPort Bridge/Routery; Message-ID: <01KHYN43JQKI96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>M  F After some searching (including search-engine hits which pointed to a I "this page is not available" page, from which, however, a further search a was possible), I stumbled upon s  6    http://www.intel.com/support/si/routers/accessport/  D which probably has what I need to know if it is on the web at all.  F Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be possible to download the whole < manual in one go, but the HTML pages appear to be organised > sequentially, so printing the thing out page by page would be  possible....   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 06:46:32 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!u, Message-ID: <3CE8D406.C7D31B2B@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:.H > WIth a few exceptions they did not. One of the exceptions was the fullG > page ads for VMS appearing in leading UK trade publications featuringiH > Northern Light and I was told by senior folk within Compaq UK that theF > ads brought a noticeable response and so would be repeated.  The ads > have never run again.   K The problem with those VMS ads is that they weren't really part of Compaq'swN advertising. It was the VMS group having its own tiny budget to place ads in ,E if I recall, 12 selected countries. Meanwhile, Compaq was running itsh: mainstream ads pushing wintel crap and not mentioning VMS.  L Shortly after the Compaq purchase of Digital, before Compaq made the mistakeL of firing its own ad agency and hiring DEC's old old, they ran 2 page spreadN in Time magazine showing a gas station with many pumps, one of which was "VMS"M (no open). This gave great hopes that Compaq would take VMS seriously, see itn( as part of a core product and market it.  $ Then Compaq changed and ignored VMS.    N Can we expect a similar "gas pump" ad from HP ? Or is HP already anti VMS ? In> a way, perhaps it os better that we are not given false hopes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 10:50:14 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!t8 Message-ID: <lehheugqdd3gcv7677aketuq40f4lcen7k@4ax.com>  , On Sat, 18 May 2002 16:16:02 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e   >n >oL >Some time ago, there were many calls for Compaq to start to take enterpriseI >systems seriously. Marcello then let it be known to some of us to expectnN >Compaq to change significantly and start to take enterprise systems seriouslyO >and that there would be a advertising campaign on TV to try to change Compaq'seN >image from a PC manufacturer to an enterprise company. Our hopes were all way' >up. Imagine seing a VMS ad on TV !!!!!h  B Agreed. Rich led us to believe we would see certain things happen.F WIth a few exceptions they did not. One of the exceptions was the fullE page ads for VMS appearing in leading UK trade publications featuringoF Northern Light and I was told by senior folk within Compaq UK that theD ads brought a noticeable response and so would be repeated.  The ads have never run again.      -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:05:10 +0100g% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!x8 Message-ID: <qshheuor06i8hjasp010fopdl2j21dee58@4ax.com>  B On Sun, 19 May 2002 13:15:12 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  M >However although they may not like it many VMS users will be forced (and areBD >currently being forced) to move to Unix because of the dwindling of >applications available on VMS.h  F For us SAP is absolutely and utterly vital if we are to retain VMS for? more than a couple of years. We run the datacentre for multipleoD locations in Europe for MANMAN under VMS but have been slowly losingF plants to SAP. I have just been told our Aberdeen operation is to moveB to SAP and that a decision may be taken soon to move our own plantB over. That would leave us with just two European plants to support@ when three years ago we had six with a seventh planned. Only theF possibility that we will move the US VMS operation across the atlanticD to our site and support remaining US plants as well as European ones! from here gives me any real hope.r  D I am told SAP said they would port back to VMS when asked but quotedE "silly money". Well Capellas's last two jobs were at senior positions1F with SAP and Oracle. Surely he could have stepped in had he wished. IfC HP/Compaq are/were serious about VMS then we do need to see the oddeC major infrastructure investment and, like it or not., SAP dominatesyE the ERP world. A world in which VMS is the ideal underlying operating  system.u     -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 07:34:49 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!D3 Message-ID: <0bUPtl$OndhU@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  [ In article <3CE704B4.95465127@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:s > Bob Ceculski wrote:  >>  F >> mine have ... I have been on VAX/VMS and then ALPHA/VMS for over 179 >> years now w/o an OS crash ... still waiting Andrew ...H > H > I dunno, Bob. To have never had to deal with a crash or analyze a dump' > might not be something to brag about.R >   J Of course if Bob wants to get experience in this area, then he could learnL to write a device driver. I even managed to machine check my Alpha once whenB my driver accessed PCI space in an, umm, "interesting" manner. :-)   Simon.   -- SB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.m   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 02 13:28:29 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) % Subject: Re: System manager available ) Message-ID: <En2znE94emse@elias.decus.ch>o  a In article <FmnXGxf21SVQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:-] > In article <3CE1D332.9592C5D2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:r >> Bill Sticker wrote: >>> 1 >>> I'd switch to anything if I could find a job.t >> lC >> I've often said that I wished I'd gotten that job on the garbaget >> truck...l > = > Which is shorthand for NT/W2K developer/system mangler?  :)s  E I'd prefer to be a real garbage collector. Early start, early finish,h& physical exercise, can sleep at night.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:23:00 GMTi4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>% Subject: Re: System manager available 0 Message-ID: <3CE8F798.85C87D28@blueyonder.co.uk>   Paul Sture wrote:g > c > In article <FmnXGxf21SVQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes: _ > > In article <3CE1D332.9592C5D2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > >> Bill Sticker wrote: > >>>i3 > >>> I'd switch to anything if I could find a job.  > >>E > >> I've often said that I wished I'd gotten that job on the garbagea
 > >> truck...  > >e? > > Which is shorthand for NT/W2K developer/system mangler?  :)  > G > I'd prefer to be a real garbage collector. Early start, early finish,y( > physical exercise, can sleep at night. >    but can u live on the wages?   > __ > Paul Sture
 > SwitzerlandJ   -- x tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2002 15:11:44 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n% Subject: Re: System manager availableo+ Message-ID: <acb3ng$vp1$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>n  0 In article <3CE8F798.85C87D28@blueyonder.co.uk>,7  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:  |> c |> s |> Paul Sture wrote: |> > of |> > In article <FmnXGxf21SVQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:b |> > > In article <3CE1D332.9592C5D2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: |> > >> Bill Sticker wrote:e |> > >>>6 |> > >>> I'd switch to anything if I could find a job. |> > >>qH |> > >> I've often said that I wished I'd gotten that job on the garbage |> > >> truck... |> > >B |> > > Which is shorthand for NT/W2K developer/system mangler?  :) |> > oJ |> > I'd prefer to be a real garbage collector. Early start, early finish,+ |> > physical exercise, can sleep at night.r |> > l |> d |> but can u live on the wages?s  E My garbageman owns a house worth easily 8x what my house is worth andeE I struggle to make the mortgage payment every month just like most of E my neighbors.  We may live by the rule "Garbage in - Garbage out" butcA it looks like they live by the rule "Garbage in - Gold out".  :-(n   bill   -- dJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:06:48 +0200r* From: "alba61" <albo@fandangomusicshop.it>) Subject: take a look for a very good link 9 Message-ID: <2c8G8.63276$g04.47317@tornado.fastwebnet.it>t   www.fandangomusicshop.com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 10:01:13 -0500i& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>5 Subject: Re: TCPIP$PRINTCAP.DAT/UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT filee8 Message-ID: <5r3ieu0cep83tmc9tq78mqqupe9htm25tb@4ax.com>  / On Sun, 19 May 2002 07:06:04 GMT, Mike Rechtman2% <michael.rechtman@digital.com> wrote:e   >Kevin Heikkila wrote: >> 1F >> Does anyone have DCL code that will, add queues to the PRINTCAP.DATF >> file or delete queues from the PRINTCAP.DAT file? I know that I canI >> manually edit the file and do this, but I would like to add the queuesh+ >> using DCL (I don't wish to use LPRSETUP)s > ! >just out of curiosity - Why not?  >a  > Er... because it's a real PITA to automate adding hundreds (or; thousands on one server I worked with) when using lprsetup.a  C The DCL is pretty simple actually.  Just use lprsetup once to add a F printer, and look at the record format of the printcap entries.  Then,< in DCL, use open/append to add queues to your printcap file.    1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqc- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 10:50:26 GMTo0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>B Subject: Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse@ Message-ID: <Sx4G8.156066$o66.461532@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  = Ahhh yes, now there's a story... whatever did happen to V5.2?t  J V5.2 will never be released.  It was intended to be a special distributionL only for the COE release of OpenVMS.  For several reasons, it has turned outG that we will be shipping V5.3 with COE as well.  Skipping a version was I bound to cause confusion and I expect there will be plenty more questionsr about the missing V5.2 yet.l  J Though I will leave you with one parting thought... on OpenVMS, success is odd ;-)1   Cheers,i Matt.c --= -------------------------------------------------------------  OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Companyy Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAh= -------------------------------------------------------------s    : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:zJ+XqbpZl3CI@eisner.encompasserve.org...oH > In article <KgXF8.153279$o66.453207@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Matt, Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> writes:H > > Support for extended file specifications was added to NFS server and client > > in TCP/IP V5.3.  > H > TCP/IP V5.2 is not even out yet.  The version on the March 2002 ODL is V5.1.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:07:58 GMTn0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>B Subject: Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse> Message-ID: <MPG.1752a31c1d11ccad9896aa@news.bellatlantic.net>  4 In article <zJ+XqbpZl3CI@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net says... u > In article <KgXF8.153279$o66.453207@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> writes:eO > > Support for extended file specifications was added to NFS server and clientm > > in TCP/IP V5.3.r > N > TCP/IP V5.2 is not even out yet.  The version on the March 2002 ODL is V5.1.  D ISTR they are skipping V5.2 in the version numbering and V5.3 is in  external field test.   --   John   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:31:40 +0100v< From: "Mark Itzcovitz" <mark.itzcovitz@nospam.vistacomp.com>B Subject: Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse< Message-ID: <3ce8de9d$0$232$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>  L I'll give a cheer for ODS-5 support in TCP/IP when I can also have my systemK disk ODS-5. Not your area, I know, but have you got any idea when that will  be?   ; "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> wrote in messageS: news:Sx4G8.156066$o66.461532@news-server.bigpond.net.au...? > Ahhh yes, now there's a story... whatever did happen to V5.2?e >vL > V5.2 will never be released.  It was intended to be a special distributionJ > only for the COE release of OpenVMS.  For several reasons, it has turned outoI > that we will be shipping V5.3 with COE as well.  Skipping a version waseK > bound to cause confusion and I expect there will be plenty more questionsa > about the missing V5.2 yet.h >lL > Though I will leave you with one parting thought... on OpenVMS, success is	 > odd ;-)l >,	 > Cheers,t > Matt.c > --? > -------------------------------------------------------------4 > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering > Enterprise Computing Group > Hewlett-Packard Companys > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAA? > -------------------------------------------------------------d >s >-< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:zJ+XqbpZl3CI@eisner.encompasserve.org... J > > In article <KgXF8.153279$o66.453207@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Matt. > Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> writes:J > > > Support for extended file specifications was added to NFS server and > client > > > in TCP/IP V5.3.t > >uJ > > TCP/IP V5.2 is not even out yet.  The version on the March 2002 ODL is > V5.1.e >a >m   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:19:44 GMTw& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>B Subject: Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse& Message-ID: <3CE8EA3A.63C3A81D@hp.com>   Mark Itzcovitz wrote:t > @ > I'll give a cheer for ODS-5 support in TCP/IP when I can also A > have my system disk ODS-5. Not your area, I know, but have you  ! > got any idea when that will be?t  > We're planning to qualify ODS-5 system disks in OpenVMS 7.3-1;B if all goes well, it will be supported. System files (things like ? SYSUAF, pagefiles, the queue database, etc.) may still require pA ODS-2 compliant names, but for the most part, you should be free a5 to use the expanded character set on the system disk.r  A A small, single-disk workstation running VMS 7.3-1 and TCP/IP 5.3 , should run nicely in a UNIX/NFS environment.      Joshua Cope    OpenVMS Engineering   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 08:28:16 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>kB Subject: Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse+ Message-ID: <3CE91610.A1CFD24D@caltech.edu>t   Joshua Cope wrote:C > A small, single-disk workstation running VMS 7.3-1 and TCP/IP 5.3n. > should run nicely in a UNIX/NFS environment.  D Last time I looked VMS would do NFS client/server ok (not perfectly,B because of RMS) with Unix machines,  but that's as far as it wouldG integrate into a UNIX/NFS environment.  For instance, there was neitherrH a NIS server nor a client for VMS and so no easy way to unify/centralizeI the usernames and their passwords.  There also wasn't an automount on VMSpH which was slightly less serious if the users directories could be servedK from the VMS side, but which was messy otherwise (static mounts of all user * directories).  Has any of this changed???    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 05:40:52 -0700 (PDT):. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>= Subject: Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help neededm@ Message-ID: <20020520124052.38149.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  - Maybe in a few months OpenVMS 7.3-X will haveo3 embedded HP drivers. Printers, CD-RW, Scanners, etcI* ...all those Software stuff for OpenVMS!!!   Any idea about this ?    Regardsc   FC b       =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?% LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience- http://launch.yahoo.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 15:17:58 GMTe0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>= Subject: Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help needede; Message-ID: <200520021112355402%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>n  F In article <20020520124052.38149.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio) Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:t  / > Maybe in a few months OpenVMS 7.3-X will have 5 > embedded HP drivers. Printers, CD-RW, Scanners, etc , > ...all those Software stuff for OpenVMS!!! >  > Any idea about this ?t  D It sounds like *you* have the idea.  It's not a bad one, but if suchD things did not appear in OpenVMS when Digital had both the operatingE systems and many of the products you mention, what makes you think itg will be different now?  C The only part I can address is printer support.  I believe the onlymG thing that will change is more timely support for HP printers in DCPS. dC OpenVMS, the operating system, has no printer drivers in it anyway.   E I agree that more and better intergration with other HP products is a 
 good idea.   Paul   -- u  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Companya   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 06:31:42 -0400H- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a( Subject: Volume shadowing and a disaster, Message-ID: <3CE8D08D.8600F54A@videotron.ca>  G Lets say you have a disaster tolerant cluster with fibre link between 2t distant buildings.  M Big explosion in or near building one happens and the electrical power supply N gets a spike followed by sporadic failures and final powerfailure, smoke, fire etc etc.  L Should one be concerned about the node in building 1 having the time to sendI shadowing commands to echo erroneous data and data corruption to the diskc: drives in building 2 ?, or is that a very unlikely event ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 17:31:11 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: Volume shadowing and a disasterA Message-ID: <zpaG8.62434$e66.5798492@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>g  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CE8D08D.8600F54A@videotron.ca...I > Lets say you have a disaster tolerant cluster with fibre link between 2K > distant buildings. >rH > Big explosion in or near building one happens and the electrical power supplyK > gets a spike followed by sporadic failures and final powerfailure, smoke,r fire
 > etc etc. >lI > Should one be concerned about the node in building 1 having the time to0 sendK > shadowing commands to echo erroneous data and data corruption to the diske< > drives in building 2 ?, or is that a very unlikely event ?  H Depends.  Any individual write operation may be corrupted in such a caseI (though this is not likely), but that's no different from the possibilityBL that any individual write operation may be corrupted during loss of power onI a stand-alone system:  in both cases, some kind of recovery (often at the $ application level) may be necessary.  I Note that ODS-2 guards against incomplete writes in its metadata by using I (IIRC) single-sector metadata writes, which should (with high probabilityeG though not certainty) either complete or not occur at all.  Though whenbL propagating even such a write to a remote shadow copy, there remains a smallH possibility that, e.g., power loss might cause memory or a system bus toI start reflecting nulls (rather than the actual sector contents) while the H network is still sending data effectively, resulting in a corrupt sectorL image being apparently valid at the far end (this has been known to occur inA disk writes in PC environments, at any rate, and graceful - i.e.,sI fail-fast - handling of power vagaries can be a challenge in any system).c  C Using a fail-over approach with a log-protected file system (if thetJ protection includes user data as well as metadata) does guard against suchI problems (the remote end effectively restarts the file system and appliesiL the log to it, and the log *can* be structured to guard against exactly thisH kind of failure and protect the rest of the system from it) - unlike theK 'just keep processing and depend upon careful updates' ODS-2 approach.  ButeJ ODS-2's handling of metadata makes the likelihood of structural corruptionL very low, and applications have at least the opportunity to incorporate userG data checks (similar to those that would be applied on restart after anA, unclean interruption) should they choose to.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2002 07:53:27 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)D Subject: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun!3 Message-ID: <NWO5hGB5XIis@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  L In article <ac899l$cvu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes: >>P > HP-UX may have a large market share but it is not a good Unix. Tru64 is a much) > better Unix from a technical viewpoint.T >   G Since discussion of porting VMS systems to a Unix variant is becoming aMK more frequent topic these days (and, depending on the way things go, a more:K likely possibility), I would be interested in hearing, from a technical andaI applications availability viewpoint, which Unix would be the best for VMSr people to port to.  G I am interested in areas such as reliability, robustness, functionalitymJ and security. I am especially interested in hearing about which Unixes areI robust enough to just have the power plug pulled out of the back and then D recover without a corrupted filesystem/data, which is something that" ODS-2/RMS is _very_ good at doing.  L I am aware of the negative comments made about HP-UX when I previously askedF why we should take HP's advice to consider HP-UX as a VMS replacement.  N > I don't think this will change. Application availability will push people to; > SUN. Performance and other factors will push them to IBM. : > HP-UX appears to be secondbest in just about every area. >    Thanks for any information,    Simon.   -- XB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.C   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:33:46 +0000l2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>H Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun!1 Message-ID: <20020520143346.C66@eisenschmidt.org>e   --nmemrqcdn5VTmUEE* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inlinea+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableh  L Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Simon Clubley (clubley@remove_me.eisner.dec= us.org-Earth.UFP) Wrote:L > In article <ac899l$cvu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writ= es:. > >>L > > HP-UX may have a large market share but it is not a good Unix. Tru64 is=  a muchy+ > > better Unix from a technical viewpoint.f > >=20 >=20I > Since discussion of porting VMS systems to a Unix variant is becoming a$L > more frequent topic these days (and, depending on the way things go, a mo= reL > likely possibility), I would be interested in hearing, from a technical a= ndK > applications availability viewpoint, which Unix would be the best for VMSm > people to port to. >=20I > I am interested in areas such as reliability, robustness, functionality<L > and security. I am especially interested in hearing about which Unixes areK > robust enough to just have the power plug pulled out of the back and thennF > recover without a corrupted filesystem/data, which is something that$ > ODS-2/RMS is _very_ good at doing.  L Most of the commercial Unices support file system journaling in one form or=L  another. Solaris supports UFS logging (though I have to say UFS is a prett=L y good file system even without it). AIX has JFS, IBM's Journaling file sys=L tem. I'm not all that familiar with how ODS implements journaling except to=L  say "wow - that's cool", but with Unix treating everything as a stream the=L  goal is to maintain consistancy more than integrity. Your file system may =L be consistant after an fsck, but what it does to your files afterwards can =L sometimes make you say fsck. That said, you can mount the file system with =L synchronous writes in logging mode and pretty much guarantee it will be fin= e.  L While I'm at it, I have to say the latest version of Sun Solstice Disk Suit=L e is almost as good as Volume Shadowing (except for the lack of mini merge,=L  which we don't use because we're too poor to buy decent controllers that s= upport it).3  L Security is a whole other ball of wax. My biggest complaint is not having a=L  delete big (hey - if they can write to it they should be able to delete it=L , right?) I've shot myself in the foot more than once wishing I could write=L  to but not delete a file. Most commercial Unixes now support ACLs, which h=L elps (but is far from perfect). I think like VMS if you understand the secu=L rity model thoroughly, you can build a secure system. Some commercial Unixe=L s also support a "Secure" version of their OS (Trusted Solaris for example)=)  like the secure layered product for VMS.i  L > I am aware of the negative comments made about HP-UX when I previously as= ked H > why we should take HP's advice to consider HP-UX as a VMS replacement. >=20L > > I don't think this will change. Application availability will push peop= le tot= > > SUN. Performance and other factors will push them to IBM.n< > > HP-UX appears to be secondbest in just about every area.  L I think the blame can be shared here. HP is *dying* because their roadmap g=L ets redrawn (in Crayons) every 3 months. "HP-UX is alive and well" followed=L  by "PA-RISC is dead" followed by their commitment to Itanic (which is how =L many years late at this point) followed by rumors during the merger, and th=' eir layoffs in their HP-UX division.=20.  L As for software vendors, if your code can compile on 2+ Unixes, there is no=L  reason not to support a others that are viable until the proverbial fat la=& dy (played by Carly Fiorina) sings.=20   > Thanks for any information,i >=20 > Simon. >=20 > --=20 F > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP      =20- > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.a   --=20 / John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>n6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  L FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turni= ng."   --nmemrqcdn5VTmUEE' Content-Type: application/pgp-signature- Content-Disposition: inline-   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----l Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD)a* Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE86QlKH5fmozfjvvIRAr7lAKCkhW5w+0yD4XYMQ+fMA1wu0/71vgCfWItz 1PHwo/EW8c2xy4twXWFVtok= =JDdNu -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    --nmemrqcdn5VTmUEE--   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2002 16:42:06 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) H Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun!, Message-ID: <acb90u$1273$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  1 In article <20020520143346.C66@eisenschmidt.org>,:5  John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> writes:r |> e |> -J |>         (hey - if they can write to it they should be able to delete itN |> , right?) I've shot myself in the foot more than once wishing I could write |>  to but not delete a file.   H This is doable under Unix and it doesn't require ACL's.  A writable file: in a non-writable directory is editable but not deletable.   bill   -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 19:24:45 +0100 (MET)k9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>VH Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun!; Message-ID: <01KHYMTU2RZW96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u  L > > (hey - if they can write to it they should be able to delete it, right?)  E Not necessarily.  One could imagine some sort of log file opened for MI shared write which many users can write to but which none should be able -
 to delete.   > This is doable under Unix    And under VMS.  0 > and it doesn't require ACL's.  A writable file= > in a non-writable directory is editable but not deletable. n  A Right, but since unix has no versions, one can edit away all the dI contents, which in practice might be just as good (or bad) as being able o
 to delete it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:27:30 -0500u+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> H Subject: RE: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun!J Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178464A@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>   --=_IS_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"G   > -----Original Message-----B > From: Phillip Helbig [mailto:HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com]  < > > > (hey - if they can write to it they should be able to  > delete it, right?)  G > Not necessarily.  One could imagine some sort of log file opened for << > shared write which many users can write to but which none  > should be able u > to delete.  F I assume he was talking about a random write, though.  Something whichF can be _only_ appended to by some set of users might indeed be useful.  2 > > and it doesn't require ACL's.  A writable file? > > in a non-writable directory is editable but not deletable. o  C > Right, but since unix has no versions, one can edit away all the u@ > contents, which in practice might be just as good (or bad) as 
 > being able E > to delete it..  E Worse, really, since the deleted file might be recoverable in part ;)    Chris       ! Christopher Smith, Perl DeveloperD Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");- 'y  m --=_IS_MIME_Boundary) Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitF Content-Disposition: inlines  U -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   C The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs,l1 protected from disclosure, and may be privileged.PN The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s)L of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,P you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of ? this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. .N If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately> by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
 Thank you.  U -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------f   --=_IS_MIME_Boundary--   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:48:08 GMTo! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>I7 Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE: Comments on HP officers' remarks/> Message-ID: <Xns921463783446Facsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  > Glenn and Mary Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> enlightened us with  news:3CE5BC86.B50E1897@gce.com:     e< > You can't expect HP'ers to have seen the Life of a Project. > document (the VMS development method Bible)   ? Just curious.... is this a book, magazine article, or something-! internal to OpenVMS Engineering ?a   Thanks :-).    -Andy- -- r   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.278 ************************