1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 21 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 280       Contents: Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! India?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?+ Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question + Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question + Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question + Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question P Re: CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro   conference in LN CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon)P Re: CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in LyoP Re: CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyo3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix  Changing the size of text  Re: Changing the size of text & Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMS$ Re: DCL symbol substitution question$ Re: DCL symbol substitution questionF DEC/CPQ Ada on IA64: Yes or No ?, was: Re: "Best" programming language* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long) Re: DECUS Lyon: some pictures " DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside& Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside& Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside& Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside& Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside1 Did Anybody See This Column in This Week's EWEEK? ( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not? Downward sizing of dump files ? # Re: Downward sizing of dump files ? # Re: Downward sizing of dump files ? 
 eBay Redux Re: eBay Redux Re: eBay Redux Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: End of an era. Re: freeVMS  Re: FTP mget on latest files ?4 Re: Hey, anyone notice that Netscape is different???, How to shrink SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL0 Re: How to shrink SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL0 Re: How to shrink SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL* HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. RE: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC( HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?, Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?P Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager   availaP Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager   availaP Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager   availaP Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager availablP Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager availabl Re: LISP for OpenVMS Alpha ?
 Log file size  Re: Log file size D Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesC Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts) C Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts)  OpenVMS wizardL Re: Other HP printers and USB (was: Newest version of DCPS and our  problem)K Re: Other HP printers and USB (was: Newest version of DCPS and our problem) - Re: Queue info via Web Server (Apache & WASD) ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts  Re: scsi cluster Re: scsi cluster Re: scsi cluster Re: scsi cluster selective failure, MX and DNS ! Re: selective failure, MX and DNS ! Re: selective failure, MX and DNS + Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??  Re: System manager available Re: System manager available. Re: TCP/IP intermittent dropping of connection. Re: TCP/IP intermittent dropping of connection9 Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse  Re: Unix on VaxStation 4000 90A  Re: Unix on VaxStation 4000 90A 4 Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help needed? Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools? # RE: Volume shadowing and a disaster # Re: Volume shadowing and a disaster # RE: Volume shadowing and a disaster $ Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?$ Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?$ Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?$ Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?$ Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun!  Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing!" Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?& Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?& Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?& Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?& RE: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 07:49:27 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> # Subject: Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! India? & Message-ID: <3CE9DFE6.E959BDB@Free.fr>   51%.  O I heard that they plan to open new subsidiaries now that CPQ has gone to smoke.   G I also heard that they were 180 people end of 1998. They are today 1480 1 according to their numbers on the mentioned site.    DEC is still alive?    D.   Alan Greig wrote:  > 1 > On Mon, 20 May 2002 07:30:21 GMT, "Bob Knowles" ! > <bob.knowles@compaq.com> wrote:  >  > >Different company:  > F > Not  entirely separate, Rich Marcello is a director of Digital IndiaC > and Compaq (HP) owns 50% as I recall. This is also the subsidiary H > which placed an ad saying "If VMS is your religion here is a chance toH > work with God". As far as I can see Digital India is the example which* > the rest of Compaq should have followed. > * > >http://www.digitalindiasw.com/index.asp > >  > >b > > = > >"Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message $ > >news:3CE69705.14397C54@Free.fr...L > >> http://www.digitalindiasw.com/financials/downloads/Digital-Q4FY2002.doc > >> > >> Just curious. > >> > >> D.  > >> -- 7 > >>   ------------------------------------------------ 7 > >> MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr 5 > >>   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France. 7 > >> Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 1928 7 > >> OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans 6 > >> Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htm7 > >> --------------------------------------------------  > >  >  > -- > Alan   --  2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htm 2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 08:12:57 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 3 Message-ID: <rcixQCJG0+Fj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <3ce900da.86893506@news.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes:  J > Finally someone mentioned BLISS!!!  (Although I personally find the last> > comment misleading---I find programming in BLISS much easierL > than programming in C (when to use a "." is more natural to me than trying, > to remember if I need "&" here or there).)  ?    When I'm writing BLISS I never have to remember whether its  E    "type const *", "type * const", or "const type *".  But declaring  J    and accessing structures with fields larger than %UPVAL is non-trivial.  F    On the other hand you never have to write a destructor and you have8    no compulsion to refer to your routines as "methods".  K > One advantage BLISS has is that it is free now.  The main disadvantage is L > that there aren't BLISS compilers for other platforms (or, rather, they've > never been released),   E    Sure they have. BLISS-10 and BLISS-16 were both released.  But you E    have to find find a KL-10 emulator to run them on.  (IIRC the VAX  >    version of the BLISS-16 cross compiler was never released).   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 08:23:18 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 3 Message-ID: <k20sSGarEeUK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <acb163$nqfvv$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>, "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:   F > Why not learn something modern?  I downloaded this the other day andG > it's great.  Needs a C compiler undeneath however, but you never need 2 > to look at the C code.  SmallEiffel is found at: > ( > http://smalleiffel.loria.fr/index.html  F    IIRC Fortran-95 post dates SmallEiffel.  Anything built on top of C:    needs a good look at the C to find the buffer overruns.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 08:26:56 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 3 Message-ID: <coGP+eKX4Qm3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <20020520171025.I66@eisenschmidt.org>, John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> writes: > N > Incidentally, JDK 131 for OpenVMS is fantastic - my thanks and praise (not =N > that it means much to anyone). I didn't have to change a single line of cod=4 > e that I wrote on a win32 machine to have it work. >   G    I typically do have to change a couple lines when I port from VMS to G    Win32.  We're frozen on an older release of the win32 JDK with fewer "    built in classes and more bugs.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:27:48 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? ; Message-ID: <01KHZZ5SN0HU984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   H >    IIRC Fortran-95 post dates SmallEiffel.  Anything built on top of C< >    needs a good look at the C to find the buffer overruns.  I Fortran contains a lot of old stuff for backward-compatibility reasons.   G A large fraction of the world still runs on Fortran!  However, one can  @ write really nice code with a suitably-chosen subset of Fortran.  I There are a couple of "subset compilers" around: they force one to avoid  I old, crusty stuff.  "F" and "ELF".  I don't know if ELF is available for  H VMS.  I think F is itself written in F, and so could be compiled by the  native Fortran compiler on VMS.   G Disclaimer: I have never used either of these, I just think they are a  
 good idea.  @ One can turn on a lot of /CHECK options when developing, and if H necessary turn these off for production versions if the performance hit  is too large..   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:01:46 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>4 Subject: Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question) Message-ID: <3CEA291A.B3A823D1@127.0.0.1>    manrubble wrote: > C > I installed a TZ87 SCSI tape drive on the boot node of a two node E > cluster.  I can see the drive on the boot node, however when logged ) > onto the satellite node, no tape drive.  >  > My question is...  > ; > What do I need to change to make the tape drive available  > cluster-wide?   D You'll have a file MODPARAMS.DAT in SYS$SYSTEM: of the system you've attached the tape drive to.   H You may find a couple (3!) of parameters, if not they can be added, e.g.  / TMSCP_LOAD = 1			! serve local tapes to cluster 0 TMSCP_SERVE_ALL = 1		! automatically serve tapes+ TAPE_ALLOCLASS = 0		! default to node$tape:    Do  7 @ SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS SETPARAMS CHECK_FEEDBACK   > and review the parameter report file. If you're happy, reboot.  D The LOAD means load the serving code, SERVE_ALL means that you don't@ have to do SET DEV/SERVED and the alloclass, use if appropriate.  C Note that the speed of the tape drive will drop to the interconnect ( speed, I assume 10 MB LAN, so, not fast!  G You can fiddle with the MSCP buffers and other parameters, but this can G lead you into all sorts of trouble if you don't know what you're doing. G Some of these need to be the same cluster wide otherwise you'll prevent  your satellite from booting.  F If memory serves right, there is a (DECUS) freeware DECNET tape serverE which does much the same sort of thing, and I also believe commercial > products are also available for those non clustered connection conundrums.    --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:50:08 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> 4 Subject: Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question) Message-ID: <3CEA346F.38C8535E@Omond.net>    Nic Clews wrote:   > [...snip...] > E > Note that the speed of the tape drive will drop to the interconnect * > speed, I assume 10 MB LAN, so, not fast!  < At one customer site where I did this (investment bank whichB had horrendous loss of life on September 11), they were previously= using RMT (remote tape) devices with Multinet.  TMSCP serving " resulted in a factor of 3 speedup.  I > You can fiddle with the MSCP buffers and other parameters, but this can I > lead you into all sorts of trouble if you don't know what you're doing. I > Some of these need to be the same cluster wide otherwise you'll prevent  > your satellite from booting. > H > If memory serves right, there is a (DECUS) freeware DECNET tape serverG > which does much the same sort of thing, and I also believe commercial @ > products are also available for those non clustered connection
 > conundrums.   C Used this (ZTdriver from Wolfgang Moeller) at another customer site = where they had hard-coded tape QIO's in one of their critical H applications (silly, I know ... but they refused to re-code).  Main dataE centre in Reading (guess where :-), and local tape drives hanging off : a VAXstation 4000-VLC in south west London.  I even loanedA them my personal VLC to do this !  Worked very well using DECnet.   I In addition, I'm fairly sure that SLS also supplies a remote tape device.   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 06:43:50 -07007 From: uwe.leinberger@t-systems.com (Dr. Uwe Leinberger) 4 Subject: Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question= Message-ID: <b6b2072c.0205210543.7b2ff4a3@posting.google.com>   d hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<accl2n$f3h$1@web1.cup.hp.com>...a > In article <20020521.4542800.935019137@imagnu.geo>, Andrew Balaam <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk> writes: K > :I only have experience with [somebody's software ate a character or two  G > :here -hoff] VMS6.2, and tape drives are not a cluster-wide resource.  > J >   TMSCP series tape drives have been cluster-wide devices for some time D >   now (V5.5), and served SCSI tape support was introduced in V6.2. > 8 > :To use the tape, you must set host to the other node. > - >   That works, but so does serving the tape.  > 9 > :>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  > : L > :On 21/05/02, 05:12:20, russ@gordon.edu (manrubble) wrote regarding A tape$ > :drive, a cluster, and a question: > :  > : F > :> I installed a TZ87 SCSI tape drive on the boot node of a two nodeH > :> cluster.  I can see the drive on the boot node, however when logged, > :> onto the satellite node, no tape drive. > :> > :> My question is... > :>> > :> What do I need to change to make the tape drive available > :> cluster-wide? >  > E Hmmm...could someone include where/how to enable TMSCP in the config? < Thats what would help the poor guy - and I'm too far from my
 docset....   Cheers   uwe    ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 08:53:37 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 4 Subject: Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question3 Message-ID: <ewvVIGzLy18d@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <20020521.4542800.935019137@imagnu.geo>, Andrew Balaam <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk> writes:MK > I only have experience with <=3D VMS6.2, and tape drives are not a clust=  > er=20" > wide resource. > 7 > To use the tape, you must set host to the other node.S  E    At least some tapes have been a cluster wide resource since lattersE    5.x versions.  More tapes are servable now than then.  Look at the,D    SPD to see if your drive is servable.  Look at the TMSCP related "    SYSGEN parameters to set it up.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:45:24 +0100R% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>cY Subject: Re: CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro   conference in Lo8 Message-ID: <jdckeuoh6311os23d6jaoramt74h1teqic@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 21 May 2002 06:12:06 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:u  N >Interesting timing. Could CA have decided to sell MAMAN once HP announced MPE >was dead ?, >nO >I wonder what sort of information the buyer got from HP/carly about the futuref >of VMS for MANMAN.P >fL >Does SSA already have products that previously competed against MANMAN ? If  E Yes, it does and also they have acquired the CA MK ERP products whichgE CA initially tried to move MANMAN users over to with limited success. C I am researching this now but it would not surprise me if HP eoling B MPE may have helped push CA into the sale. CA previously announcedB that they intended to help users migrate from MPE to VMS MANMAN ifC they wished. I don't know if SSA have made a similar statement.  CAe@ had also stated they were investigating porting MANMAN to VMS on+ Itanium but had not yet reached a decision.t  O >so, it would then be an ndication that SSA purchase MANMAN not so much for theiM >software, but for the potential to convert customers from MANMAN on MPE (andM% >later on VMS) to their own platform.    Sounds about right   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:54:07 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>aW Subject: CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon)d8 Message-ID: <712keu8tdrglgprfqth4kqj9touqk9gifh@4ax.com>  A On Mon, 20 May 2002 21:35:37 GMT, lbohan@spamless..dbc.com wrote:   D >On Mon, 20 May 2002 11:25:02 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> >wrote:f > H >>CA have just sold a division which markets and supports MANMAN on VMS.B >>Just a few months after assuring us that it was still strategic. >U> >I missed hearing/reading about this;  Who did CA sell it to ?  B Only heard about it a month after it happened myself. CAMUS EuropeB (MANMAN/MK user group) comes up next month and CAMUS USA is takingE place at the moment. Hopefully more info will emerge. Would have goneeA to CAMUS US had I known a few days earlier but should be at CAMUS E Europe (UK). I don;t know anything about SSA Technologies. Anyone anya knowledge of them?   From www.interbiz.com   D SSA Global Technologies Acquires interBiz Supply Chain And Financial2 Application Product Lines from Computer Associates    D CHICAGO, April 8, 2002  SSA Global Technologies, Inc., a worldwideB enterprise solutions and services provider, today announced it hasD acquired the supply chain management, financial management and human< resource management product lines of interBiz, the eBusiness@ applications division of Computer Associates International, Inc.D (NYSE: CA). The acquisition adds proven enterprise resource planning> (ERP) solutions to SSA Global Technologies already strong andF well-recognized offerings to the industrial sector. Financial terms ofD the agreement were not disclosed.Through the acquisition, SSA GlobalD Technologies is on a path to regain a leading position in its targetE markets by solving industry-specific business challenges and creatingtB a heterogeneous application environment that works seamlessly withE other backend applications. The combined company will serve more thanNF 9,000 longstanding, market-leading companies in over 90 countries from  more than 70 offices worldwide.   A "We are dedicated to providing new products and enhancements thati@ continually increase our customers returns on investment," saidE Michael Greenough, president, chairman and chief executive officer of C SSA Global Technologies. "We see value in these existing brands and , will continue to invest in these products."      Transaction highlights:     D - Offers customers added support through an expanded global network;D additional revenue to spend on research and development and expanded? Global Guide Groups to understand customer, industry and marketo	 demands; e  F - Provides the critical mass to re-position SSA Global Technologies asC a leading vendor in specific vertical markets, expanding its global ' capabilities, resources and customers;    @ - Leverages the companys global service and support functions;   B Underscores SSA Global Technologies business model, and financial viability;    F - Strengthens organic growth in its key vertical markets  automotive,F fast moving consumer goods (including food, beverage and electronics),5 general manufacturing and pharmaceutical industries; -  = - Expands SSA Global Technologies commitment to deliver more-F opportunities for customers e-commerce and collaboration initiatives; and   B - Adds experienced management and IT professionals in the U.S. and International markets. 1    ? "CAs strategy is to focus on our industry leading positions insE enterprise management, security, storage, application development and F integration, business intelligence and portals," said CA President andF CEO Sanjay Kumar. "The interBiz offerings are superb solutions for the@ customer base served by SSA Global Technologies. We believe thisD agreement will ensure the continued development and evolution of theB interBiz products and provide existing interBiz customers with theC best long-term support and technology roadmap. We will work closelynB with SSA Global Technologies to ensure a smooth transition for our customers and employees."     F Over the past year, SSA Global Technologies has been reengineering itsC company to deliver a solution strategy that involves e-commerce andrF collaboration with BPCS, its core ERP product. SSA Global Technologies@ will apply its business model and solution strategy to the newlyD acquired products. For customers utilizing the interBiz brands, thisD strategy will give them new opportunities to benefit from e-business and collaboration solutions. p    ; "This acquisition provides SSA Global Technologies with newoF marketshare and added revenue which, in turn, allows us to invest moreB in research and development. This ensures we can provide customersB with ever increasing functionality to meet their specific industryC challenges," said Greenough. "In the first six months of our fiscal C year, we have experienced solid growth in a tough market, generatedaF stellar profits and signed more than 750 contracts. We have proven ourD ability to deliver on our strategy and are now planning for the long term." E  = Products covered under this transaction include CAS, interBizt: Logistics, interBiz Online, interBiz Reports, KBM, MANMAN,? Masterpiece/Net, MasterPiece/Net HRMS, MAXCIM, MK Logistics, MK2( Manufacturing, PRMS and Warehouse BOSS.     F A fully integrated organizational structure is in place for SSA GlobalD Technologies where employees are being integrated, service offerings? are being coordinated and cross-selling opportunities pursued. .     About SSA Global Technologies     B SSA Global Technologies, Inc., is a leading provider of enterpriseA software and services to the world's industrial sector companies,hD dedicated to the assessment, design, development, implementation andB support of business solutions which improve business processes and increase profitability.   > SSA Global Technologies core product, BPCS, is a flexible ERPF platform that easily integrates with strategic partner applications to@ deliver e-commerce, business intelligence, customer relationshipB management (CRM) and supply chain solutions. Worldwide, SSA GlobalD Technologies is focused on addressing the needs of industrial sectorE companies, more specifically in the automotive supply, consumer goodspD (incorporating fast moving consumer goods, food beverage and tobacco> and consumer electronics), pharmaceutical/chemical and general manufacturing industries.   B Headquartered in Chicago, SSA Global Technologies operates offices: throughout North America, Europe, the Middle East, Africa,A Asia/Pacific/Japan and Latin America. To find out more, visit SSA / Global Technologies Web site at www.ssagt.com.:   About Computer Associatesa  ? Computer Associates International, Inc. (NYSE: CA) delivers TherC Software That Manages eBusiness. CA's world-class solutions addresseD all aspects of eBusiness management through industry-leading brands:? Unicenter for infrastructure management, BrightStor for storageeE management, eTrust for security management, CleverPath for portal ande; business intelligence, AllFusion for application life cyclelF management, Advantage for data management and application development,E and Jasmine for object-oriented database technology. Founded in 1976,o@ CA serves organizations in more than 100 countries, including 99B percent of the Fortune 500 companies. For more information, please
 visit ca.com.r     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:15:02 -0700g+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>mY Subject: Re: CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyo ' Message-ID: <3CEA8096.5000301@mmaz.com>p  & --------------0503010106000904020808069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowedt Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitv   Alan Greig wrote:I  B >On Mon, 20 May 2002 21:35:37 GMT, lbohan@spamless..dbc.com wrote: >WE >>On Mon, 20 May 2002 11:25:02 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  >>wrote: >>I >>>CA have just sold a division which markets and supports MANMAN on VMS.0C >>>Just a few months after assuring us that it was still strategic.h >>>r? >>I missed hearing/reading about this;  Who did CA sell it to ?b >> >eC >Only heard about it a month after it happened myself. CAMUS EuropeRC >(MANMAN/MK user group) comes up next month and CAMUS USA is taking F >place at the moment. Hopefully more info will emerge. Would have goneB >to CAMUS US had I known a few days earlier but should be at CAMUSF >Europe (UK). I don;t know anything about SSA Technologies. Anyone any >knowledge of them?w >  >>From www.interbiz.com  >oE >SSA Global Technologies Acquires interBiz Supply Chain And Financialn3 >Application Product Lines from Computer Associateso >  >wI >CHICAGO, April 8, 2002 - SSA Global Technologies, Inc.^(TM), a worldwidecC >enterprise solutions and services provider, today announced it hasmE >acquired the supply chain management, financial management and humani= >resource management product lines of interBiz, the eBusiness,A >applications division of Computer Associates International, Inc.e >r  H I can't say that I feel that this is a good thing, they have ignored my I requests for information which was submitted through their web site back cE in early April, which is now busted with ASP errors, and if you call 3G their headquarters number, their voice mail system doesn't even have a eG sales department and the operator cannot provide any answers regarding n the acquisition...  C It doesn't appear that they are pressing real hard to support this q
 transition...    Barryt     -- d  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028t      & --------------050301010600090402080806) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciie Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit!   <html> <head> </head>e <body> Alan Greig wrote:<br>mN <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:712keu8tdrglgprfqth4kqj9touqk9gifh@4ax.com">   <pre wrap="">On Mon, 20 May 2002 21:35:37 GMT, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lbohan@spamless..dbc.com">lbohan@spamless..dbc.com</a> wrote:<br><br></pre>    <blockquote type="cite">     <pre wrap="">On Mon, 20 May 2002 11:25:02 +0100, Alan Greig <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:a.greig@virgin.net">&lt;a.greig@virgin.net&gt;</a><br>wrote:<br><br></pre>     <blockquote type="cite">       <pre wrap="">CA have just sold a division which markets and supports MANMAN on VMS.<br>Just a few months after assuring us that it was still strategic.<br></pre>v       </blockquote>fZ       <pre wrap="">I missed hearing/reading about this;  Who did CA sell it to ?<br></pre>       </blockquote>s       <pre wrap=""><!----><br>Only heard about it a month after it happened myself. CAMUS Europe<br>(MANMAN/MK user group) comes up next month and CAMUS USA is taking<br>place at the moment. Hopefully more info will emerge. Would have gone<br>to CAMUS US had I known a few days earlier but should be at CAMUS<br>Europe (UK). I don;t know anything about SSA Technologies. Anyone any<br>knowledge of them?<br><br>&gt;From <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.interbiz.com">www.interbiz.com</a> <br><br>SSA Global Technologies Acquires interBiz Supply Chain And Financial<br>Application Product Lines from Computer Associates<br><br><br>CHICAGO, April 8, 2002 &#8211; SSA Global Technologies, Inc.&#8482;, a worldwide<br>enterprise solutions and services provider, today announced it has<br>acquired the supply chain management, financial management and human<br>resource management product lines of interBiz, the eBusiness<br>applications division of Computer Associates Inte  rnational, Inc.</pre>r       </blockquote>i
       <br>P I can't say that I feel that this is a good thing, they have ignored my requestsH for information which was submitted through their web site back in earlyN April, which is now busted with ASP errors, and if you call their headquartersH number, their voice mail system doesn't even have a sales department andH the operator cannot provide any answers regarding the acquisition...<br>
       <br>T It doesn't appear that they are pressing real hard to support this transition...<br>
       <br>	 Barry<br>e
       <br>
       <br>8       <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--   D Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President &amp; CIO    E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com">Treahy@mmaz.com</a> * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028</pre>M
       <br>
       </body>m
       </html>r  ( --------------050301010600090402080806--   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:12:06 -04001- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>dY Subject: Re: CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyo , Message-ID: <3CEA1D73.586F3035@videotron.ca>  M Interesting timing. Could CA have decided to sell MAMAN once HP announced MPEi
 was dead ?  N I wonder what sort of information the buyer got from HP/carly about the future of VMS for MANMAN.  K Does SSA already have products that previously competed against MANMAN ? IfoN so, it would then be an ndication that SSA purchase MANMAN not so much for theL software, but for the potential to convert customers from MANMAN on MPE (and$ later on VMS) to their own platform.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:43:39 +01001& From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix* Message-ID: <3CEA16CA.F8F24CD4@kgcc.co.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:  ; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message , > news:877km2sgjc.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com..., > > Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> writes: > >uH > > > The problem with coherence isn't affected by whether the disks areD > > > local to one system or to all, the problem is that if multipleI > > > copies exist in the memory of the members of the cluster how do you-J > > > ensure if one member modifies all the other members invalidate their > > > copies atomically. > >0I > > Step one, take the unix buffer cache out and destroy that part of theR > > brain...  L Sorry I'd forget that VMS doesn't have a Unix style buffer cache, I did know I'd just forgotten.2     >4 >0L > Sorry, Paul, but the lack of a Unix-style buffer cache is more a detrimentL > than an asset to VMS.  VIOC is a step toward a VMS system-level cache, andN > XFC another bigger one, but for most typical use the Unix approach is likelyL > better still - and really doesn't introduce any more sharing problems than7 > current VMS distributed caching/buffering mechanisms.o >a  M The Unix buffer cache is a bit of a mixed blessing. For somethings it's greatS for O others it's less so, I guess like all things it's a question of using it right.0   >:? >  VMS uses direct to the process IO, not IO to the kernel with:@ > > a copy to the process, so there can well be NO cache at all.  C This copy avoidance can be good. On most (HP) systems the copy from G kernel space to user space is performed by the CPU, only the V-Class ofn) HP's systems has a hardware memory mover.C  H Using Veritas' VxFS (HP's marketing people call this JFS) you can bypassH the buffer cache and perform direct IO. However to do this (and actuallyN to get it to work) you have to do your IOs in DEV_BSIZE (usually 1K) multiplesG and also start the IO from a 4K page boundary. If you break these rulesCO you either get errors or O_SYNC IO depending on how you tried to get direct IO.m   >s >eJ > Depends on how you look at it.  Only application-specified block I/O (orM > 'locate-mode' access, if that still exists) avoids a buffering layer - justnJ > because it happens to be in P1 space rather than Sx space doesn't reallyJ > make much difference (except that other local processes can't share it). >e >  RMS1 > > Global buffers are the common exception here.  >cN > Another not-so-great excuse for Unix-style system caching.  RMS *could* haveK > chosen to create a Unix-like system cache instead of implementing 'globalrI > buffers' way back when, but that didn't fit as well with RMS's layeringoL > model (and real-time advocates may have preferred to have somewhat tighterG > control over system memory use, though it's not clear that equivalenteK > controls couldn't be obtained by establishing quotas and/or priorities one > system cache use). >r > ...j >uG > > > Truncating doesn't affect this, it can be considered as just likecH > > > any other write.  On Unix, files can be sparse, I seem to rememberF > > > that VMS' view of files is somewhat different, so I have no ideaI > > > whether it supports sparse files, if not Then I guess truncates area > > > a different problem. >eL > Considered commenting on this before, but got lazy.  I'm not familiar withN > the details of Unix-style byte-range locks, so it's possible that a truncateN > can just take out a write-style range lock on the section truncated and haveL > it 'just work' (though since it would have to wait for *every* conflicting< > read or write lock to be released, it could take a while).  N The locks in a Unix file, are not nessessarily *in* the file, there is nothing to/ stop you having a lock off the end of the file.F  L I've never tried issueing a truncate against a file with a mandatory lock in it,0M but the manual page doesn't mention any interaction with locks, so I guess itiN just truncate regardless. One thing the manual does state is that the SGID bitM is cleared, so this would make the locks advisory rather than mandatory.Theree< could be an order issue here, I don't know, I haven't tried.   > VMS locks are:N > slightly different in that they operate on names and hence don't accommodateJ > amorphous (and potentially overlapping) entities like byte (or truncate)G > ranges easily.  I don't know exactly how VMS handles byte-range lockssK > themselves let alone truncate ranges, but I suspect it is indeed (as Paul  > suggests) a bit messy. >t > >kH > > ODS files are extent based. Any file is a ordered list of extents ofG > > blocks. (A block btw, is *defined* to be 512 bytes. It is up to thenI > > driver to do the various fudging to make this so.) So the file systemiE > > is VERY different to any of the unix systems. It does not have tofF > > provide anything other than block access to the process.  AlthoughA > > truncation is simple in principle, doing it so it is safe andsF > > completable is a far trickier matter! It is also why you get a big8 > > performance hit cf unix file systms for some things. > N > Not sure that the use of extents makes any real difference here:  after all,F > several Unix file systems are extent-based (XFS, VxFS, I think JFS). >g   HP's JFS is VxFS BTW.l   >n > > G > > The nice thing about VMS, is that the tools are good enough for youdG > > to pick up a lot of the stuff on a running system. With the VMS FAQiE > > in one hand, and SDA in the other you are set. To begin anyway :)  > >fC > > Getting a copy of the ODS-2 specs from the SIG tapes from yearsnH > > ago is a very good start. Once you have a handle on the file system,% > > then you can move out from there.n >gJ > As I said, I'm not sure that the actual on-disk structure makes too muchJ > difference.  Inodes correspond at least moderately closely to index-fileL > entries, etc.  The use of careful-update sequences in ODS-2 in contrast toJ > many Unix file systems (which range from using prayer plus fsck to usingG > transaction logs to protect integrity) *is* a significant difference,t= > however, especially in how the clustered file system works.o >s > - bill  O I'll see if I can find out about ODS-2. Non journal based fsck's are assumptiona  O based, and so as soon as it's assumptions break down it realy can make a AssUMen   Cheers     Ken,   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:37:12 +0100r& From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix* Message-ID: <3CEA2358.44561ECD@kgcc.co.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:  ; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageg, > news:87bsbdpfhg.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com... >o > ...t >n9 > > All `just works'. (Thank Bill for a good bit of that!o/ > > He was one of the original RMS developers.)t >r; > But only on the 11, not in the clustered VMS environment.l >e > > F > > > Sorry, Paul, but the lack of a Unix-style buffer cache is more a% > > > detriment than an asset to VMS.h > >,C > > Yes, but until recently, on unix systems all disk IO was to thesJ > > kernel, never to userland. (for a large enought value of recently, andE > > a small value of all :) The key factor is the buffer *may* exist,tH > > rather than *must*. So you can not use it as a sync point, as it mayJ > > not be there at all. or it may be there in SOME nodes, but not others. >eN > I'm not sure that's a significant distinction (any more, now that Unixes canM > perform direct I/O).  After all, the local system cache isn't a distributede> > synchronization point in clustered Unix environments either,  . OK, this is what I had been trying to discuss.   > and even localM > Unix environments may (I don't know, but they could) coordinate cached datar > with directly-accessed datat  H HP-UX with VxFS does. A direct write causes the buffer cache entry to beK invalidated, so the next read has to go all the way to the disk to get it'st data.n  0 > (just as VMS could - and again I don't know if) > it does) using lock-manager mechanisms.c >MK > Using global buffers you can make local RMS access work similarly to UnixtK > cached access in this regard.  Using Unix direct I/O mechanisms you couldbJ > make local Unix access work similarly to RMS access in this regard.  TheN > *big* differences between the two systems are the default behaviors (sharingN > via caching using RMS global buffers is a bit of a pain, and duplicating theK > caching instead using lower-level VIOC or XFC caches is wasteful) and the,9 > flexible use of system memory that Unix caching allows.i >  > ...m >vH > > One thing VMS has done, is that buffer update go via the disk, neverI > > memory to memory although the SCS ports could do it no problem. I was H > > told that failure modes where too horrid to handle with out a stableF > > copy in the middle, so onto and off the disk... This may have been
 > > improved.  > L > I think XFC was doing something in that area (but not in 7.3).  It is hardI > to get right in many of the cases (e.g., distributed write after write:cF > what happens when the original owner issues a Flush in the middle ofK > things?).  There is, however, no need for the new owner to go to disk fortH > the data after it has been written:  it can just be forwarded from the > original owner.h >e > > : > > > >  RMS Global buffers are the common exception here. > >eE > > > Another not-so-great excuse for Unix-style system caching.  RMSwG > > > *could* have chosen to create a Unix-like system cache instead oftI > > > implementing 'global buffers' way back when, but that didn't fit as F > > > well with RMS's layering model (and real-time advocates may haveH > > > preferred to have somewhat tighter control over system memory use,I > > > though it's not clear that equivalent controls couldn't be obtainedhD > > > by establishing quotas and/or priorities on system cache use). > >lJ > > I was always amused that RMS lived in system space, and the XQP was in > > user space...e >oL > Evolution doesn't always proceed in straight lines.  One of the reasons it@ > sometimes makes sense to start over using what you've learned. >i > - bill   Cheers   Kenl   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 05:13:15 -0700& From: meetkrishnas@hotmail.com (Krish)" Subject: Changing the size of text= Message-ID: <19e2ed27.0205210413.758b99bc@posting.google.com>T   Hello,  A I wrote the following program to create a banner when I log into p
 my system.   $ esc5m = "$[1m" $ esc5m[0,8] = 27- $ esc1m = "$[5m" $ esc1m[0,8] = 27o $ esc0m = "$[0m" $ esc0m[0,8] = 27n $ double_high_top = "$#3"e $ double_high_top[0,8] = 27: $ double_high_bottom = "$#4" $ double_high_bottom[0,8] = 27 $ double_wide = "$#6"  $ double_wide[0,8] = 27n $ text = "COOL" ? $ write sys$output esc5m + text + double_wide + double_high_topN7 $ write sys$output esc5m + text + esc0m + double_wide +  double_high_bottom $exit>  F With this my text appeared reasonable big and with the blink. But I am notOE satisfied with its size. I want it really huge. How can I acheive it.AF double_high_top, double_high_bottom and double_wide increased the textF size by a fixed dimension. But to make it much bigger that what I have9 now, what should I do. Any help will be much appreciated.S   - Kp  D NOTE : I cut and pasted the code from the file. My only intent is to= know how to alter the size of the text to the preferred size.e   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 09:04:34 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)w& Subject: Re: Changing the size of text3 Message-ID: <72f8ZN$Wr3Ro@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  f In article <19e2ed27.0205210413.758b99bc@posting.google.com>, meetkrishnas@hotmail.com (Krish) writes: > H > With this my text appeared reasonable big and with the blink. But I am > notaG > satisfied with its size. I want it really huge. How can I acheive it. H > double_high_top, double_high_bottom and double_wide increased the textH > size by a fixed dimension. But to make it much bigger that what I have; > now, what should I do. Any help will be much appreciated.o  G    Just a word of caution.  Your typical windows based VT emulator willa    not display what you want.e   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 08:57:52 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)r/ Subject: Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMSr= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205210757.7121d3eb@posting.google.com>   q "Non John Gemignani, Jr." <John.non.Gemignani@non.hp.com> wrote in message news:<3CE91A67.647B74F0@non.hp.com>...6J > I believe that the shared socket problem is the Apache accept problem onH > the shared BG device?  This particular problem had a fix but it failed  E That is the one. I've written a watcher for it that polls the servers4F and fixes the problem when found (kills the subprocesses), however theF memory (socket) leak problem has become a real problem since I wrote aC discussion board program for our students. This has been under test F for the past couple of weeks on a couple of courses however has reallyB agitated the leak problem ... and you guessed it - other academics want to add their courses.  @ I'm currently at the point that I can't leave the computer for a' weekend away since I can't trust it....   2         10002 mbufs allocated to socket structures  = That magic number is a show stopper and even kills my "Apachec= watcher" (PMDF seems to deal with it OK - keeps mail queued).s  ? Sorry if I seem a bit frustrated, however this release of TCPIPp& Services has been out quite some time.  B For the record ... there is _NO_WAY_ I'm giving anyone in my group? or Faculty the chance to say "Oh - you should be using LINUX orm Window(tm)".  @ So ... I'm watching it constantly at this time, which is kind ofB a life style stopper. I could write a "TCPIP watcher", however too$ many things hang off TCPIP Services.  A Many thanks for the update! - As I said, if I can help in any wayk& to test the patches please contact me.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 May 2002 00:52 CDTr' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)>- Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution questiont- Message-ID: <21MAY200200521952@gerg.tamu.edu>A  3 chris@applied-synergy.com (Chris Scheers) writes...p] }carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<18MAY200201324721@gerg.tamu.edu>...ef }> In article <0KQE8.81048$vm6.15241244@ruti.visi.com>, "Mark Jensen" <markje@vistainfo.com> writes...N }> }Was able to get it to work by skipping the double quotes in the write line% }> }$ write WIZARCHIVE ''TEMPSTRING2'a }> tJ }> Do you have any idea what the various single quotes in that command do? }>  I }> My suggestion: unless there is some specific reason that you are awareoE }> of for putting in quotes, either single or double, in any specifich# }> case, you should leave them out.v }> aB }> And if you were wondering, the net result of the quotes in yourF }> command above is exactly zero - but you wast a few processor cycles
 }> to get it.d }  } D }Actually, that is not correct.  The net result of the quotes is not }zero. } C }The single quotes cause the contents of TEMPSTRING2 to be insertedrE }into the command line.  Then command line parsing is applied againsts }the result. } A }For example, if TEMPSTRING2 contains double quotes, they will be:A }parsed and removed from the resultant string which is written tom }WIZARCHIVE.    & I think you are mistaken. For example:   $ foo = "X "" Y "" Z"-
 $ sh symb fooa   FOO = "X " Y " Z"0 $ open/write foo foo.z $ write foo foop $ write foo ''foo' $ close foo: $ type foo.z	 X " Y " Z 	 X " Y " Z   = Note that both lines output to the file are exactly the same.8> The double quoting is identical. None of the values X, Y, or ZB has been translated. None of the quoting has changed. This is also@ the case if you have the contents of the symbol start and/or endD with a double quote - they stay there and appear in the output file.  6 }Worse, embedded double quotes will also be processed.  A I assume you meant single quotes here. This is also not the case.    $ foo = """X "" 'Y' "" Z"""e
 $ sh symb fooo   FOO = ""X " 'Y' " Z""  $ open/write foo foo.z $ write foo foo- $ write foo ''foo' $ close fooa $ type foo.z
 "X " 'Y' " Z" 
 "X " 'Y' " Z"G  H Once again, the results of both are identical. The single quoting insideB the symbol "foo" has not been parsed, they have been retained. TheE embeded double quotes also worked out exactly the same. An additional8G leading and trailing double quote was added to make sure that the Y and>E its leading and traling single quote would not appear to be inside ofhH double quotes in the event that the contents of the symbol were parsed -D but they weren't. Both cases are also the same if you leave them off like in the previous example.e  F For things that are "naked" on the command line (not between a pair of& double quotes) it works out like this:  3 A leading pair of single quotes results in nothing.R$ A trailing quote results in nothing.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:00:42 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>t- Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution question - Message-ID: <3CE9F09A.90908@xs4all.nospam.nl>e   Carl Perkins wrote:F5 > chris@applied-synergy.com (Chris Scheers) writes... _ > }carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<18MAY200201324721@gerg.tamu.edu>... h > }> In article <0KQE8.81048$vm6.15241244@ruti.visi.com>, "Mark Jensen" <markje@vistainfo.com> writes...P > }> }Was able to get it to work by skipping the double quotes in the write line' > }> }$ write WIZARCHIVE ''TEMPSTRING2'0 > }>  L > }> Do you have any idea what the various single quotes in that command do? > }> rK > }> My suggestion: unless there is some specific reason that you are awareoG > }> of for putting in quotes, either single or double, in any specificf% > }> case, you should leave them out.  > }> sD > }> And if you were wondering, the net result of the quotes in yourH > }> command above is exactly zero - but you wast a few processor cycles > }> to get it.o > }  > } F > }Actually, that is not correct.  The net result of the quotes is not > }zero. > } E > }The single quotes cause the contents of TEMPSTRING2 to be inserteduG > }into the command line.  Then command line parsing is applied againstt > }the result. > } C > }For example, if TEMPSTRING2 contains double quotes, they will beIC > }parsed and removed from the resultant string which is written toi > }WIZARCHIVE. >  > ( > I think you are mistaken. For example: >  > $ foo = "X "" Y "" Z"  > $ sh symb foon >   FOO = "X " Y " Z"o > $ open/write foo foo.z > $ write foo foo  > $ write foo ''foo'
 > $ close foot > $ type foo.z > X " Y " Z- > X " Y " Zs > ? > Note that both lines output to the file are exactly the same.e@ > The double quoting is identical. None of the values X, Y, or ZD > has been translated. None of the quoting has changed. This is alsoB > the case if you have the contents of the symbol start and/or endF > with a double quote - they stay there and appear in the output file. > 8 > }Worse, embedded double quotes will also be processed. > C > I assume you meant single quotes here. This is also not the case.r >  > $ foo = """X "" 'Y' "" Z"""n > $ sh symb foo  >   FOO = ""X " 'Y' " Z""  > $ open/write foo foo.z > $ write foo foot > $ write foo ''foo'
 > $ close fooi > $ type foo.z > "X " 'Y' " Z"a > "X " 'Y' " Z"  > J > Once again, the results of both are identical. The single quoting insideD > the symbol "foo" has not been parsed, they have been retained. TheG > embeded double quotes also worked out exactly the same. An additionalsI > leading and trailing double quote was added to make sure that the Y and G > its leading and traling single quote would not appear to be inside of J > double quotes in the event that the contents of the symbol were parsed -F > but they weren't. Both cases are also the same if you leave them off > like in the previous example.t > H > For things that are "naked" on the command line (not between a pair of( > double quotes) it works out like this: > 5 > A leading pair of single quotes results in nothing.o& > A trailing quote results in nothing. > 
 > --- Carl  H I agree. In addition it can be said that the person who wrote this code G either does not understand DCL symbol substitution (or DCL itself!) or  1 deliberately wanted to make his/her code obscure.'  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 07:27:11 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)O Subject: DEC/CPQ Ada on IA64: Yes or No ?, was: Re: "Best" programming languageh3 Message-ID: <oHEQz3PiK8Fo@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  O In article <3CE921DD.9A61142F@hp.com>, Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> writes:k > B >   "There are specific languages and dialects of languages which G >    Compaq does not plan to make available for the Itanium platform. hI >    Compaq will provide an Ada 95 compiler on the Itanium architecture eG >    but will not port the existing Compaq Ada 83. Compaq has no plans f >    to make PL/1 available."a > N > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OpenVMS_IPF_PORTING_WP.pdf  0 Is DEC Ada going to be available on IPF or not ?  J The initial answer was no, but others have said that the answer is in fact yes.  J Note that I do not use DEC Ada, so I am just curious. I am also interestedD to hear what the customers who do use it will migrate to if they are7 forced off DEC Ada, and will that involve HP hardware ?    Simon.   -- hB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:20:00 +0200e% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>n3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)e. Message-ID: <acd3g3$1d7$1@info.service.rug.nl>  < "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message =- news:8805EBz15toW@eisner.encompasserve.org...aJ > In article <18MAY200202545203@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl = Perkins) writes: > >=20I > > Cross architecture boots have always been unsupported. Doable? Sure =  -cI > > just be careful about what directory structure the thing boots from =c andu. > > it *should* work. But it is not supported. >=20; >    Guess again.  From the OpenVMS Cluster SPD (29.78.20):u >=20B >       "All OpenVMS Cluster systens have the following software = features >       in common: >=20 >       ...a >=20D >       "Cross-architecture satellite booting permist VAX boot nodesE >       to provide boot services to Alpha satellites and Alpha boot =  nodes 3 >       to provide boot services to VAX satellies."k >=20/ >    That sure doesn't sound unsupported to me.' >=20  F And we use it quite a lot. We have three boot servers, 2 VAX, 1 Alpha,G serving a common set of DSSI disks, among which the Alpha and the VAX =8 systemG disks. We boot VAX satellites even if the VAX servers are down and we =k boot2 Alpha satellites even if the Alpha server is down.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:27:38 +0200e% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>u3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)a. Message-ID: <acd3ub$1hj$1@info.service.rug.nl>  8 "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message =) news:3CE4D451.5090100@xs4all.nospam.nl...oH > The new network boot will be bootp/tftp, without a shadow of doubt,=20$ > simply because they already exist.  4 I don't think bootp/tftp has the necessary security.@ Currently, only systems with the cluster password can access the7 disks of the server. The password is provided with MOP. H The problem is if you give a system without the password access to the = system disk,=20tJ it can read the cluster/password and join the cluster. This is dangerous = in ani7 environment where you cannot trust everyone on the LAN.iF In order to have the same security, you need extensions to bootp and = tftp,tF which means that the advantage that they already exist does not hold = anymore.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:06:46 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)a, Message-ID: <3CEA1C34.A06F9BE6@videotron.ca>   Fred Zwarts wrote:L > In order to have the same security, you need extensions to bootp and tftp,O > which means that the advantage that they already exist does not hold anymore.   N MOP simply uses the ethernet address of the requestor to authenticate, right ?I There is no reason BOOTP or TFTP *servers* couldn't do the same and serveiI whatever image was defined in a database when it gets a request from that  ethernet address.s  J Obviously, there would have to be some way to differentiate a TFTP requestM coming from an ethernet address while the host is booting, and a TFTP requesto> coming from a user on that same host once it has fully booted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:20:52 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>t3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)f/ Message-ID: <3CEA1F84.5070609@xs4all.nospam.nl>    Fred Zwarts wrote:b > "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message news:3CE4D451.5090100@xs4all.nospam.nl... > F >>The new network boot will be bootp/tftp, without a shadow of doubt, $ >>simply because they already exist. >  > 6 > I don't think bootp/tftp has the necessary security.B > Currently, only systems with the cluster password can access the9 > disks of the server. The password is provided with MOP.oV > The problem is if you give a system without the password access to the system disk, P > it can read the cluster/password and join the cluster. This is dangerous in an9 > environment where you cannot trust everyone on the LAN.sL > In order to have the same security, you need extensions to bootp and tftp,O > which means that the advantage that they already exist does not hold anymore.r >   I True. However, it's not the cluster password which gets provided by MOP. cH MOP can provide and validate an optional service password. MOP can also @ be configured to serve only known systems (by hardware address).  C I don't think it is likely that a bootp/tftp client can access the oG system disk of a properly configured cluster without first joining the eF cluster. OK, if you let tftp run as SYSTEM and define it's root to be $ SYS$SYSDEVICE, it's another story...  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:00:24 +0200u% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>g3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)m. Message-ID: <acdne9$7ta$1@info.service.rug.nl>  8 "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message =) news:3CEA1F84.5070609@xs4all.nospam.nl..." > Fred Zwarts wrote:< > > "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message =) news:3CE4D451.5090100@xs4all.nospam.nl...h > >=20J > >>The new network boot will be bootp/tftp, without a shadow of doubt,=20& > >>simply because they already exist. > >=20 > >=208 > > I don't think bootp/tftp has the necessary security.D > > Currently, only systems with the cluster password can access the; > > disks of the server. The password is provided with MOP.bH > > The problem is if you give a system without the password access to = the system disk,=20oD > > it can read the cluster/password and join the cluster. This is = dangerous in ani; > > environment where you cannot trust everyone on the LAN.aJ > > In order to have the same security, you need extensions to bootp and = tftp,eJ > > which means that the advantage that they already exist does not hold = anymore. > >=20 >=20G > True. However, it's not the cluster password which gets provided by =4 MOP.=20rF > MOP can provide and validate an optional service password. MOP can = also=20eB > be configured to serve only known systems (by hardware address). >=20G > I don't think it is likely that a bootp/tftp client can access the=20(J > system disk of a properly configured cluster without first joining the =  
 > cluster.=20   H Why not? Currently satellites booting with MOP already access the MSCP =	 served=20bH system disk before they join the cluster. However, in order to connect =
 to this=20/ disk, they need the cluster id and password.=20 H Here is a chicken and egg problem, since the cluster id and password are> stored on the system disk in SYS$SYSTEM:CLUSTER_AUTHORIZE.DAT.F This is solved by using MOP, which, in addition to the load file, alsoF has options like "Seconday loader",  "Tertiary loader", "Load Assist =
 Parameter"=20:H and "Load Assist Agent", which are used to send the id/password to the =
 client.=20J Since this is based on hardware address and not on IP address, it can be = trusted.E In order to have the same security tftp should use additional bootp =e
 options=20D comparable to those "Loader" MOP options. This requires quite some =
 changes in: bootp and tftp and the interaction between tftp and bootp.  A > OK, if you let tftp run as SYSTEM and define it's root to be=20e& > SYS$SYSDEVICE, it's another story... >=20 > Bart Zorn( >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:41:46 GMTr. From: ">>> ^P" <plj@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>& Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: some pictures9 Message-ID: <3CEA084B.515CDA66@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>    Link seems to be down.   Didier Morandi skrev:   " > http://213.36.104.34/decus_lyon/ >a > Others will come later.r > Enjoy. >n > D. > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans3 > Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htm 4 > --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:14:33 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>l+ Subject: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outsidee' Message-ID: <3CE9F3D8.C1F8866C@Free.fr>,   Michael Austin wrote:  > I > Can you give me an exact diagram of your DSL connection - from the walleE > to the VMS system?  Also give me exact devices (make/model) and any-% > sofware involved in the connection.0   HW:r  M wall -- PTT phone plug -- ADSL modem EICON Diva 2430 SE -- Ethernet -- switchqG NETGEAR FS 105 -- [1] iMac -- [2] Alpha PWS 600au -- [3] HP Armada 100S-   SW:.  * iMac MAC OS 9.2 with PPP over ATM and DHCP+ PWS VMS 7.3 TCP/IP 5.1 fixed IP (see below)8' Armada Windaube XP fixed IP (see below)    NW:   ' outside EICON IP address: 212.129.50.53M Subnet 255.255.255.0* maintenance leg: 192.168.1.1 (via browser)? iMac address 192.168.1.2 (given by Web server maintenance page) & PWS address 192.168.1.254 same esubnet( Armada address 192.168.1.253 same subnet  N The concern is to define a route. FTP between the three systems is ok. The VMSN BIND server has been defined as 213.36.80.1 which is the one given back by the. ADSL modem. Now, which route should I provide?   Thanks,t   D. -- >2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htme2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 05:28:25 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e/ Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outsidet, Message-ID: <3CEA1338.8C6F6254@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote: P > The concern is to define a route. FTP between the three systems is ok. The VMSP > BIND server has been defined as 213.36.80.1 which is the one given back by the0 > ADSL modem. Now, which route should I provide?  M If your modem is a router, then the router's LAN side IP address will be yourZ gateway addressaN (eg: any packet destined for an IP address outside of your 192.168 subnet will be sent to the router.  , In macparlance, this is the gateway address.C In VMS parlance, it is the default route (TCPIP SET ROUTE/DEFAULT )w  M If your modem is NOT a router with NAT, then the gateway will be one provided M by your ISP, you must look into what your modem has negotiated with your ISP. L In that case, your LAN IP adresses will have to be in the same subnet as theK gateway address provided by your ISP (essentially, only one machine on yourf LAN will be able to have such).u  M It is critical that you know whether your modem is just a glorified bridge or J whether it is a router with NAT capabilities. That changes the topoligy of your LAN completely.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 09:37:11 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> / Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside 5 Message-ID: <20020521093711.7654.qmail@gacracker.org>e  C On Tue, 21 May 2002, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:a >Michael Austin wrote: >> lJ >> Can you give me an exact diagram of your DSL connection - from the wallF >> to the VMS system?  Also give me exact devices (make/model) and any' >> sofware involved in the connection. - >- >HW: >-N >wall -- PTT phone plug -- ADSL modem EICON Diva 2430 SE -- Ethernet -- switchH >NETGEAR FS 105 -- [1] iMac -- [2] Alpha PWS 600au -- [3] HP Armada 100S >9 >SW: >s+ >iMac MAC OS 9.2 with PPP over ATM and DHCPh, >PWS VMS 7.3 TCP/IP 5.1 fixed IP (see below)( >Armada Windaube XP fixed IP (see below) >o >NW: >s( >outside EICON IP address: 212.129.50.53 >Subnet 255.255.255.00+ >maintenance leg: 192.168.1.1 (via browser) @ >iMac address 192.168.1.2 (given by Web server maintenance page)' >PWS address 192.168.1.254 same esubnet ) >Armada address 192.168.1.253 same subnetT >SO >The concern is to define a route. FTP between the three systems is ok. The VMStO >BIND server has been defined as 213.36.80.1 which is the one given back by thea/ >ADSL modem. Now, which route should I provide?e   Bad news...   F http://www.eicon.com/worldwide/products/DSL/docs/Diva_2430_ADSL(3).pdf  F "The Diva2430SE can connect to a *single* PC or notebook..." (emphasis added).a  E You either need to use your Mac as a NAT router, buy a NAT router, ort8 change the modem for one that supports multiple devices.  E You may also have headaches with the built-in filtering, unless it ist easily configured.     Doc. -- s6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net2   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:31:31 -0500l& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>/ Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside 8 Message-ID: <tfmkeughb742v6is5o1vf2ncl51k7k9i19@4ax.com>  ) On 21 May 2002 09:37:11 -0000, Doc.Cyphero3 <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:s    
 >Bad news... o > G >http://www.eicon.com/worldwide/products/DSL/docs/Diva_2430_ADSL(3).pdf  > G >"The Diva2430SE can connect to a *single* PC or notebook..." (emphasis  >added). > F >You either need to use your Mac as a NAT router, buy a NAT router, or9 >change the modem for one that supports multiple devices.e > F >You may also have headaches with the built-in filtering, unless it is >easily configured.d >u  5 I can recommend the Linksys BEFSR41 Cable/DSL Router.aB It even does PPOE (though I have not had any kind of setup to test this).  @ It provides the DHCP functions to your internal network for you. hth.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:38:51 GMTe4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>/ Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside 0 Message-ID: <3CEA5ADA.FDB02D9C@blueyonder.co.uk>   jlsue wrote: >    7 > I can recommend the Linksys BEFSR41 Cable/DSL Router. D > It even does PPOE (though I have not had any kind of setup to test > this). >   bF I too have one of these and it works well for me. Power supply fried aC few weeks back but a new one was ordered and arrived in a few days.   Q I don't have any VMS on mine but others here do. In fact, I did receive a requestnJ to beta test some software for logging access info from the BEFSR41 on VMS/ recently, which may be announced here sometime.o   regardsi -- o tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:48:42 -0400 - From: "kenrbnsn1@rcn.com" <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>o: Subject: Did Anybody See This Column in This Week's EWEEK?> Message-ID: <RELAY1ul6miMDZLcaGA000020e5@relay1.softcomca.com>  D The column is titled "The Old-Fashioned Way to Fight Spam: With Vax"  Q It can be found at <http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s=3D707&a=3D27160,00.asp>m  $ It doesn't say what OS is being run.   Ken Robinson  D --------------------------------------------------------------------+ mail2web - Check your email from the web at  http://mail2web.com/ .   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:36:29 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?A8 Message-ID: <uq4keuor7rnfed1venjt2vfobvfu22eolh@4ax.com>  / On Mon, 20 May 2002 19:18:40 GMT, Tim Llewellynd' <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:D   >aB >Does anyone know what technology the new UK ATC system at Swanick >uses. >  >This is scary,e >s? >http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,1371,718325,00.htmlu  C One other significant factor not mentioned in the article is simple D redundancy. Prior to the privatisation of the UK air-traffic controlE system the government had planned to build a duplicate control centreeB at Prestwick (Scotland). The intention was that either sysem couldB handle the full load of the other. One of the first actions of theD privatised management was to indefinitely delay the duplicate centre for cost reasons.h  E So now should the primary system go down the existing Scottish centre B does not have anything like the capacity to handle flights for the; whole of the UK and runs an older generation system anyway.2  E They continue to claim that there are no safety implications here. ..   % >Air travellers 'face year of chaos'     -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 11:33:04 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>o1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?n6 Message-ID: <20020521113304.10577.qmail@gacracker.org>  = On Tue, 21 May 2002, Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> wrote:eD >In article <ouqieu0bilq04ej5uj2178oub84eogtshn@4ax.com>, John Laird+ ><john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:t >d2 >> On Mon, 20 May 2002 19:18:40 GMT, Tim Llewellyn* >> <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >> eK >> >Does anyone know what technology the new UK ATC system at Swanick uses.o >> > >> >This is scary, >> >B >> >http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,1371,718325,00.html >> >( >> >Air travellers 'face year of chaos'  >> nL >> Every time I read of another holdup (what is it, 6-10 years late ?), UnixF >> boxes were mentioned.  Don't know what flavour of vendor/os though. >>  ! >> Shambles of the highest order.a > D >I did quite a few googles. As you might expect, everyone is keeping >their heads below the parapet.h >VH >On slim evidence, (A few CVs of people who were working on it) my moneyF >goes to AIX for the workstations. Could not find anything to say what >the servers are. One site h5 > http://www.shef.ac.uk/~pc1jm/hci98cc/HCI98CC36.html C >discussed the GUI. Baroque and Bizzare were the words that come too@ >mind. They seem to have made a software imitation of the littleF >cardboard slips the controllers would slide into wooden racks back in
 >Biggles day.h  J Lat time I was in Edinburgh ATC (couple of years ago), they still used allF those cardboard strips. Admittedly this was the backup system, but forK something like ATC, you need several fallbacks in case the computers become  unavailable.     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net=   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:35:51 GMT:4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?y0 Message-ID: <3CEA2FF7.61A21E66@blueyonder.co.uk>   Alan Greig wrote:r > 1 > On Mon, 20 May 2002 19:18:40 GMT, Tim Llewellynt) > <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:h >  > >vD > >Does anyone know what technology the new UK ATC system at Swanick > >uses. > >t > >This is scary,u > > A > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,1371,718325,00.html* > E > One other significant factor not mentioned in the article is simplewF > redundancy. Prior to the privatisation of the UK air-traffic controlG > system the government had planned to build a duplicate control centrenD > at Prestwick (Scotland). The intention was that either sysem couldD > handle the full load of the other. One of the first actions of theF > privatised management was to indefinitely delay the duplicate centre > for cost reasons.a > G > So now should the primary system go down the existing Scottish centre-D > does not have anything like the capacity to handle flights for the= > whole of the UK and runs an older generation system anyway.1 > G > They continue to claim that there are no safety implications here. ..w  I Hmmm, these people are professionals?  Well maybe at something (I decline 6 to post my suggestions), but it doesn't sound like IT.   >   o >  > -- > Alan   -- t tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk k  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:10:17 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?r8 Message-ID: <olkkeuk273s66skd313c43nm77q021ihf1@4ax.com>  / On Tue, 21 May 2002 11:35:51 GMT, Tim Llewellyna' <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:e    H >> They continue to claim that there are no safety implications here. .. >hJ >Hmmm, these people are professionals?  Well maybe at something (I decline7 >to post my suggestions), but it doesn't sound like IT.u  E One could, of course, argue that these people are highly professionaltD (spend as little money as legally possible) and it is the regulatoryC authorities and politicians that are highly unprofessional. Did you,F see Steven "shagger" Norris (former London transport minister) and nowC director of Jarvis (privatised rail maint. contractors) claim on tv-> that last week's (London) rail crash was sabotage and not poor' maintenance as every other expert says,L  D Railtrack continue to play down the fact that four minutes later wasF due a 9 carriage  InterCity Express at 125mph. Had that derailed afterF the third carriage instead of the previous 4 carriage local service itD would have been bye, bye to Potters Bar as 6 carriages careered over, the bridge instead of climbing the platform.   >w >> o >  >> e >> --t >> Alano   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:56:52 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?r0 Message-ID: <3CEA5EEE.9C931037@blueyonder.co.uk>   Alan Greig wrote:h > 1 > On Tue, 21 May 2002 11:35:51 GMT, Tim Llewellyn ) > <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:2 > J > >> They continue to claim that there are no safety implications here. .. > >nL > >Hmmm, these people are professionals?  Well maybe at something (I decline9 > >to post my suggestions), but it doesn't sound like IT.a > G > One could, of course, argue that these people are highly professional F > (spend as little money as legally possible) and it is the regulatory= > authorities and politicians that are highly unprofessional.d  F As I alluded, their professionalism is consequently in some other areaG than IT. How many UK MP's and WHitehall lackeys have any real technical'G background? They are paying these people to provide an IT service. ThatmL the providers see fit to take put budgetary concerns before technical/safety2 issues cannot be totally the fault of the clients.  I Or would you argue that Challenger was due to NASA actually believing thecI contractor who put their profits before the fears of their own engineers?s  	 > Did yousH > see Steven "shagger" Norris (former London transport minister) and nowE > director of Jarvis (privatised rail maint. contractors) claim on tvA@ > that last week's (London) rail crash was sabotage and not poor) > maintenance as every other expert says," > L No, but I was shocked by some of the pictures in the media yesterday showingG the abysmal state of rail tracks. I'm glad I drive and cross the Severna6 on a bridge and not in the rail tunnel these days :-(.  F > Railtrack continue to play down the fact that four minutes later wasH > due a 9 carriage  InterCity Express at 125mph. Had that derailed afterH > the third carriage instead of the previous 4 carriage local service itF > would have been bye, bye to Potters Bar as 6 carriages careered over. > the bridge instead of climbing the platform. >    E hmmm, the guy who fell asleep at the wheel and CAUSED a rail disaster , went to jail. Who is going to jail for this?   -- " tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:59:23 GMTvL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?-8 Message-ID: <00A0E436.A5B04E9A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  v In article <20020521113304.10577.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: > K >Lat time I was in Edinburgh ATC (couple of years ago), they still used alltG >those cardboard strips. Admittedly this was the backup system, but for-L >something like ATC, you need several fallbacks in case the computers become
 >unavailable.i  N There was a really interesting article by Malcolm Gladwell in _The New Yorker_M fairly recently - or at least I read it fairly recently; I'm way behind on myaN periodicals - about the continued utility of paper.  (His basic point was thatL digital media were terrific for long-term storage but that paper seems to beI the best thing for working documents.)  He talks about studies that show CG that the cardboard strips are an excellent cognitive match for the way  % air traffic controllers have to work.   8 It may seem primitive but it may also be the best thing.  I (You've now heard everything I know about this, so if your experience as wH pilot/air-traffic-controller/flight-control software designer conflicts / with this, I'm not going to argue any further.)M   -- Alan1    O ===============================================================================u0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================-   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 01:18:53 -0700# From: pmartyn@csc.com (Phil Martyn)e( Subject: Downward sizing of dump files ?= Message-ID: <23088ca1.0205210018.3ed7b6af@posting.google.com>o   Hello,@      need some advice. Recently completed a VMS 7.3 upgrade on aB development system wherein the dump file is located off the system: disk. However, didn't have the DUMPFILE=0 set in CLUPARAMSA (DUMPFILE_DEVICE was 'though). Correspondingly I've now got a 1.5RE million block dump file on the system disk that I want to get rid of.v But there's confusion - for me.oF I notice that the SYSDUMP.DMP file is open when I do a SHOW DEV /FILE.F But looking on a similarly configured 7.2 system wherein the dump file= is resident off the system disk the file isn't 'open'. So the B questionS are - is this something 'new' to VMS 7.3 that requires aC minimum size of a DMP file on the system disk (although availing offE the DOSD). And question 2 - what's the suggested best way to go aboutuE reducing it and what would a recommended minimum size for the file bei< - bearing in mind that it's never going to be used - i.e run, SYS$UPDATE:SWAPFILES.COM. Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 07:10:45 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org, Subject: Re: Downward sizing of dump files ?3 Message-ID: <AdMve+Zf8Y19@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  c In article <23088ca1.0205210018.3ed7b6af@posting.google.com>, pmartyn@csc.com (Phil Martyn) writes:r > Hello,B >      need some advice. Recently completed a VMS 7.3 upgrade on aD > development system wherein the dump file is located off the system< > disk. However, didn't have the DUMPFILE=0 set in CLUPARAMSC > (DUMPFILE_DEVICE was 'though). Correspondingly I've now got a 1.5dG > million block dump file on the system disk that I want to get rid of. ! > But there's confusion - for me.aH > I notice that the SYSDUMP.DMP file is open when I do a SHOW DEV /FILE.H > But looking on a similarly configured 7.2 system wherein the dump file? > is resident off the system disk the file isn't 'open'. So theyD > questionS are - is this something 'new' to VMS 7.3 that requires aE > minimum size of a DMP file on the system disk (although availing ofSG > the DOSD). And question 2 - what's the suggested best way to go aboutiG > reducing it and what would a recommended minimum size for the file be > > - bearing in mind that it's never going to be used - i.e run. > SYS$UPDATE:SWAPFILES.COM. Thanks in advance.  D Since you're only going to be dumping to one dump file, and you wantD that file off the system disk, you don't want _any_ dump file on the system disk.  C Of course, VMS does not require any dump file on any disk.  Writing29 a crash dump after a system failure is entirely optional.T  I So rename SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP to something else, reboot and delete it.   F Personally, I try to avoid SYS$UPDATE:SWAPFILES.COM and I also include@ DUMPFILE=0, SWAPFILE=0 and PAGEFILE=0 lines in my modparams.dat.B If I need a pagefile, swapfile or dumpfile, I can create it myselfD with SYSGEN> CREATE.  That way I don't have to worry about VMS doingF something unexpected (like creating a newer, smaller file on the wrong disk) behind my back.N  @ Then again, it's been a couple of years since I actively managed a VMS machine.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:21:45 +0100.( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>, Subject: Re: Downward sizing of dump files ?) Message-ID: <3CEA49E9.A7F2252E@127.0.0.1>.   Phil Martyn wrote: >  > Hello,B >      need some advice. Recently completed a VMS 7.3 upgrade on aD > development system wherein the dump file is located off the system< > disk. However, didn't have the DUMPFILE=0 set in CLUPARAMSC > (DUMPFILE_DEVICE was 'though). Correspondingly I've now got a 1.5eG > million block dump file on the system disk that I want to get rid of./! > But there's confusion - for me.3  E Be very, very careful. Not only has this the potential to prevent youbD getting diagnostic crash and error information, you could trash your system disk into the bargain!   A There are articles to set up DOSD in the documentation and in WISYD articles, or DSN where you  (we) still have it. It is not unusual toF have teething troubles when setting this up, and you may (incorrectly)G assume you've done something wrong when all it needs is a little tweak.  We're in the phonebook!e   -- H( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comi   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 09:13:36 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)- Subject: eBay Redux23 Message-ID: <0TaFvA06zyXm@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <acdgr5$5u9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >    >  > 6 > Do you recall why I started posting to this group ?? > ; > Your FUD over Sun's involvment in eBay, remember what thet& > outcome was, you had made it all up. >    	"I made it all up?"    A 	That is not true at all.  Pick a thread any thread and prove it.r< 	Outcome?  Sure, I know the outcome.  I know the outcome forB 	Verisign and others.  Shall we start naming former Sun customers?  = 	Here, maybe 3 years later you can do a better job respondingh	 	to this:a    * From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)1 Subject: Re: At eBay, we're the BLOT in "dot.com"l Date: 1999/06/22$ Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms    L In article <376E65B3.F4964860@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >      >>E >>         With that said, he won't touch this one.  The BEST spin herM >>         can put on this is that ETrade was down .. and they weren't reallyaK >>         down, just experienced a few hours of "extreme slowness" (IIRC).0 >> > J > I am not even going to try. Your ideas as to the cause of eBays problemsJ > seem to be pure speculation and eBay are distancing themselves from your > point of view. > ( > They do however continue to buy Sun's. >   : 	Yeah, about twice as many as they need... "just in case."  9 	I hope EBay turns into a case study on how not to run a e: 	high availability site.  Conversely, perhaps the AmericanE 	Stock Exchange for VMS and the New York Stock Exchange for MVS (yes,i: 	they have had their minor moment) will be examples of howH 	to run high availability sites.  Here, bag the speculation.  Seems the % 	folks at PCWeek dug out the problem:w  > http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,407387,00.html  L    Technicians traced the main cause of the outage to a problem with the SunH Solaris operating system, which overwrote files and corrupted the OracleF database. The database, Version 7.3.2.2, recognized a data block in anL incorrect format, and that caused the main hardware--a Sun E10000 server--to  crash. The problem is fixed now.F    More troubling than the technical glitches was the apparent lack ofJ precautions taken by EBay to prevent problems or to fix them more quickly.M    First, EBay had not upgraded the system with an available Solaris patch tor fix the overwriting error.N    "Had the patch been there, EBay more than likely wouldn't have experienced O the outage," said Anil Gadre, vice president of marketing for computer systems   at Sun, in Menlo Park, Calif.-G   The patch was available for several months for downloading from Sun'sSH Web site, although Sun officials acknowledged they should have been more& proactive in implementing it for EBay.  > 	So Sun admits "yeah, maybe we should have been more proactiveF 	in implementing [the patch] for EBay."  Well, HELLO!!  Here is a site? 	that is like a yo-yo over the course of the previous 8 months.o? 	Do you think that Sun might have had deployed senior engineers<F 	during that time to give EBay a thorough going over?  Just a thought.    H >>         Yeah, Sun is licking their wound on this one.  Latest word isF >>         Sun points out that EBay neglected to apply a system patch. >> > ? > Of course Sun is concerned, eBay are a large Sun customer, noe< > sensible platform vendor want's customers to have problems > on their platform. > 8 > Of course we don't want to mention the OpenVMS cluster< > supporting part of a large eCommerce site which went belly@ > up do we during this Sun free for all.  It also wouldn't do to9 > point out that Compaq service and a bug seemed like thee > most likely culprits.  >   G 	Belly up.  There you go again.  A classic example of a misrepresentionrA 	of facts on your part.  They didn't go belly up.  One outage wasC@ 	network related as JF pointed out (FDDI), the other outage that= 	was referred to as a brownout in the PCWeek piece was due tonA 	primary CPU saturation when 8 node memory channel was installed.o  A 	Not a Compaq service problem nor bug were the culprits in either ? 	instance.   Do you have evidence to support such a contention?s> 	Of course you don't.  You are quite content to make things up; 	as you go along, seldom referencing until it is time to do  	benchmarks.  C 	Seems to me if we go back and read some of the more recent outages.@ 	at EBay we see quite the mishmash of problems.. one time a SCSI, 	card that failed intermittently, on and on.    ? > We also don't want to talk about the fact that Compaq/Digitale@ > by wantonly neglecting OpenVMS has in effect presented OpenVMSJ > customers with the equivalent of a dead platform. It may not be dead yet8 > but if you are running Oracle Applications, PeopleSoft; > etc etc it will be when you have to upgrade to the latest 
 > release. >   ? 	They aren't wantonly neglecting VMS.  Your Oracle reference is ( 	referring to financials.  Look at this:  1 http://www.openvms.digital.com/oracle-letter.html   I Jerry Robertson: "Oracle database servers, including Oracle7, Oracle8 andeG Oracle Rdb, represent more than 80% of the databases running on OpenVMStM systems. This large installed base continues to demand Oracle products makingiL OpenVMS one of our highest volume platforms. We are committed to these jointH OpenVMS customers and we intend to provide these products in a timeframe+ consistent with other strategic platforms" e    B 	Now tell me Andrew, how are you going to spin that one?  Is Jerry= 	being quaint when he calls VMS "one of their highest volume   	platforms?"  < 	You know, maybe EBay is stuck with Sun and so they won't be8 	rolling off any time soon.  But tell me this.. in that A 	highly RAS environment of EBay ... UE10000 RAS , remember Andrewp> 	how many times you trotted out UE10000 and RAS, should I bore/ 	our readers and dig up a nice quote?  Why not:     3 Andrew Harrison, March 3, 1999 writes to comp.arch:.  N "Sun will however provide uptime guarantees for a single E10K at a level that 3 generally gets other vendors rushing to a cluster."0    @ 	So tell us Andrew, what did EBay's uptime guarantee consist of?A 	Let me guess, like a good used car salesman you folks were quick6A 	to point out:  "Ooops, you forgot to apply the Jumbo Patch.. all  	bets are off."t  ; 	But.. most uptime guarantees require that certain criteria ? 	be met.. one is that an entire survey of software and hardwaretC 	including OS rev levels and patches be performed.. is Sun's policytA 	different?  Do you guys just kind of let your "uptime guarantee",B 	customers wing it?  OR, EBay wasn't part of the "uptime guaranteeA 	program?"  After many outages?  Which is it?  Care to comment?  hE 	Might as well.. I suspect that this paragraph in particular will be tF 	cut and pasted many times until you do.  See the horn of the dilemma  	there?  ;-)  < 	Maybe UE10000 RAS is much better this week than it was last? 	week.. maybe if all good UE10000 sites remember to apply theire 	Jumbo Patches.   ? 	By the way, aren't you just a bit curious about the "showcase"sG 	site I am referring to?  Care to hear some details?  I can essentiallyl> 	tell you about another VERY large UE10000 customer that might; 	as well be running any other platform (pick one , anyone).6   				Robc   ----  ; 	Andrew, that was early on.  Zinc Whiskers came much later.   5 > So claiming that you are some sort of Sun FUDbuster-/ > is do far from the truth as to be laughable,    	
 	You wish.  	 >its yourm. > FUD that got me involved in the first place.     				RobS   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:04:38 +0100nU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>n Subject: Re: eBay Redux20 Message-ID: <acdnm8$7ts$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <acdgr5$5u9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  >>6 >>Do you recall why I started posting to this group ?? >>; >>Your FUD over Sun's involvment in eBay, remember what theb& >>outcome was, you had made it all up. >> >> >  > 	"I made it all up?"   > C > 	That is not true at all.  Pick a thread any thread and prove it.s> > 	Outcome?  Sure, I know the outcome.  I know the outcome forD > 	Verisign and others.  Shall we start naming former Sun customers? >     9 I quote from your response "I made a cut and paste error"g  ? Sorry Rob you claimed it was a Sun HW problem that caused eBayse 22 hour outage, it wasn'tr  A You then tried to claim it was Solaris corrupting data, it wasn'th  B You then claimed that the previous mistakes you had made were down8 to an inability on your part to cut and paste correctly.      ? > 	Here, maybe 3 years later you can do a better job respondingd > 	to this:c >  > , > From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)3 > Subject: Re: At eBay, we're the BLOT in "dot.com"s > Date: 1999/06/22& > Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms >  > N > In article <376E65B3.F4964860@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy$ > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >> >> >  > E >>>        With that said, he won't touch this one.  The BEST spin henM >>>        can put on this is that ETrade was down .. and they weren't reallylK >>>        down, just experienced a few hours of "extreme slowness" (IIRC).c >>>  >>>lJ >>I am not even going to try. Your ideas as to the cause of eBays problemsJ >>seem to be pure speculation and eBay are distancing themselves from your >>point of view. >>( >>They do however continue to buy Sun's. >> >> > < > 	Yeah, about twice as many as they need... "just in case." > ; > 	I hope EBay turns into a case study on how not to run a  < > 	high availability site.  Conversely, perhaps the AmericanG > 	Stock Exchange for VMS and the New York Stock Exchange for MVS (yes,m< > 	they have had their minor moment) will be examples of howJ > 	to run high availability sites.  Here, bag the speculation.  Seems the ' > 	folks at PCWeek dug out the problem:g > @ > http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,407387,00.html > N >    Technicians traced the main cause of the outage to a problem with the SunJ > Solaris operating system, which overwrote files and corrupted the OracleH > database. The database, Version 7.3.2.2, recognized a data block in anN > incorrect format, and that caused the main hardware--a Sun E10000 server--to" > crash. The problem is fixed now.H >    More troubling than the technical glitches was the apparent lack ofL > precautions taken by EBay to prevent problems or to fix them more quickly.O >    First, EBay had not upgraded the system with an available Solaris patch tof > fix the overwriting error.P >    "Had the patch been there, EBay more than likely wouldn't have experienced Q > the outage," said Anil Gadre, vice president of marketing for computer systems v > at Sun, in Menlo Park, Calif.nI >   The patch was available for several months for downloading from Sun's J > Web site, although Sun officials acknowledged they should have been more( > proactive in implementing it for EBay. >     @ And its great that you posted this because it wasn't what causedC the outage. This is the version of events you origionally broadcastAE that proved to be incorrect and which you ended up having to dissown.   ? It wasn't a Solaris patch it was a patch to a 3rd party productB> It wasn't an Oracle corruption, it was the unpatched 3rd party product.  > This was all covered at the time and it is both remarkable andC wonderfull that you have chosen to repeat the incorrect allegations C you made the first time arround and which if you remember correctly  you ended up having to dissown.t  ; You are a continued source of ammusement to me and no doubtp' embarassment to many OpenVMS advocates.     ? I have snipped the rest of the exchange to save you looking any,  5 more idiotic, its a wednesday and the sun is shining.E   Regardsh Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 15:59:56 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>  Subject: Re: eBay ReduxM6 Message-ID: <20020521155956.16612.qmail@gacracker.org>  6 On Tue, 21 May 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy4 <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:   <snip>  @ >I have snipped the rest of the exchange to save you looking any >i6 >more idiotic, its a wednesday and the sun is shining.  ? Eh? Some bizarre timezone you're in Andrew. Today is *Tuesday*.a     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:06:08 +0100-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: End of an era.g8 Message-ID: <n63keu886b0hvcgaj4v7t85peevdakt3lk@4ax.com>  , On Mon, 20 May 2002 15:24:06 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:p   >David Mathog wrote:O >> I hope your company has hired the extra support personnel who will be neededoN >> once the Win2K machines start replacing the OpenVMS ones. Otherwise you can/ >> look forward to some very, very long nights.e >eK >Not if yo cut a CD image of each machine, and when a machine start to haveyJ >problems, you just wide the disk and reinstall from the CD image. :-) :-)( >Isn't that standard Windows debugging ?  B Based on an old Dilbert cartoon (Dogbert on the help desk), our NT> support staff mottos are "Shut up and reboot" and "Shut up and re-install" if that fails.  D Hey, I can't complain as all these Windows re-installs mean I get toF do more network design upgrading our backbone to Gigabit to handle all0 the extra traffic of remote imaging of PC boxes. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:08:27 +0100i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: Re: End of an era.e8 Message-ID: <gh3keus7hbqm12gav5rb15ap1kkf1orerr@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 21 May 2002 02:51:58 GMT, cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote:'   >JF Mezei wrote: >> n >> David Mathog wrote:Q >> > I hope your company has hired the extra support personnel who will be neededtP >> > once the Win2K machines start replacing the OpenVMS ones. Otherwise you can1 >> > look forward to some very, very long nights.i >> TM >> Not if yo cut a CD image of each machine, and when a machine start to have L >> problems, you just wide the disk and reinstall from the CD image. :-) :-)* >> Isn't that standard Windows debugging ? >o6 >With most recent bios, you can boot right off the CD.  E Err, yes but that doesn't magically refresh the disk with Windows andw	 all Apps.V -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:33:05 +0000k  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com Subject: Re: End of an era.i: Message-ID: <OF15D244D4.685F0CAD-ON00256BC0.004A2D31@btyp>  D Well, here I am switching off the VMS boxes at Yell as well... maybeJ another month or so and that'll be it, except for Talking Pages which will be around for a while.  H SAP has been 'live' here for 10 days now. This morning SAP services wereH unavailable due to 'a known problem with SAP' and are STILL unavailable.  = Ho Hum. Oh, and they're running SAP on HP, just for interest.o   Cheers   Steve Se        C "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> on 05/20/2002y 06:19:09 PM     To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:sH From:      "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk>, 20 May            2002, 6:19 p.m.   Re: End of an era.    K Spoke too soon. The training and test systems are going as well. EverythinglG except about ten machines are staying, for hostorical purposes, so it's ) going to be nearer a hundred been junked.r  K Everything else has been outsourced so technically "not our problem" but itn will be somebodies.n              F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has0G been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,e$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedsK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.   
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.   I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, D RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:51:50 +0930t) From: "The CO" <askme@somewhere.in.oz.au>  Subject: Re: End of an era.n- Message-ID: <3cea49eb@duster.adelaide.on.net>   F "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message) news:acbem7$10h$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...6B > Spoke too soon. The training and test systems are going as well.
 EverythingI > except about ten machines are staying, for hostorical purposes, so it'so+ > going to be nearer a hundred been junked.c  K Be sure and post the availability of the 'unwanted' VMS boxes to the group.dA I'm sure there will be plenty willing to give them loving homes..>  J > Everything else has been outsourced so technically "not our problem" but it > will be somebodies.l  	 Hoo yeah.y   Geoff in Oz    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:57:46 +0100u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a Subject: Re: End of an era.a8 Message-ID: <76kkeuc07olcr4am5kv9avht9l1kikrdrl@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 21 May 2002 13:33:05 +0000, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:o   >cE >Well, here I am switching off the VMS boxes at Yell as well... maybeeK >another month or so and that'll be it, except for Talking Pages which willi >be around for a while.l >oI >SAP has been 'live' here for 10 days now. This morning SAP services werecI >unavailable due to 'a known problem with SAP' and are STILL unavailable.a >c> >Ho Hum. Oh, and they're running SAP on HP, just for interest.  @ At the first SAP implementation meeting for our Aberdeen plant aD couple of weeks ago, one team member said that during implementationE of SAP at his previous employer they decided SAP stood for "Stops AllsB Production". SAP wants to control every aspect so closely that youA really, really, really, must, must, must know what you are doing.e  @ Compaq ended up with most of its production facilities shut downE during SAP implementation as well. Supposedly Capellas arrived as CIOnB just in time to save the day. By all accounts his SAP knowledge is> extensive (having worked for SAP). So he can do some things...     >Cheersn >o >Steve S >s >s >  >SD >"Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> on 05/20/2002 >06:19:09 PM >g! >To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn >cc:I >From:      "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk>, 20 Mayf >           2002, 6:19 p.m.e >  >Re: End of an era.b >  >eL >Spoke too soon. The training and test systems are going as well. EverythingH >except about ten machines are staying, for hostorical purposes, so it's* >going to be nearer a hundred been junked. >nL >Everything else has been outsourced so technically "not our problem" but it >will be somebodies. >Y >, >n >  >k >  >iG >______________________________________________________________________  >l >e >[Information] -- PostMaster: E >This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be H >confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasH >been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,% >distribute or use this transmission.  >cI >Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is H >not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedL >this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >r >Thank you.  > E >Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.k< >Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228. >fJ >Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,E >RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.  >b   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:29:04 -0700s' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: End of an era.e+ Message-ID: <3CEA67C0.4ACDC247@caltech.edu>i   Alan Greig wrote:o  B > Compaq ended up with most of its production facilities shut downG > during SAP implementation as well. Supposedly Capellas arrived as CIOeD > just in time to save the day. By all accounts his SAP knowledge is@ > extensive (having worked for SAP). So he can do some things...  B Like what?  Call the consulting division at SAP on his speed dial?   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:33:03 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: End of an era.e? Message-ID: <20020521153303.4869.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>f  
 Not here !!!!a  2 The SAP  project is late. A delay of about 2 years. My OpenVMS systems will be migrated in 2004 ! ' Maybe SAP thinks to develop a MySAP fore OpenVMS/Itaniumb	 ok ? :-)    + If the Itanium servers become cheapers thanM. Alphaservers, why not ? Any idea about Itanium! systems prices ??? I think no...     Regards    FC h    , --- David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote: > Alan Greig wrote:m > / > > Compaq ended up with most of its productionf > facilities shut down1 > > during SAP implementation as well. Supposedly, > Capellas arrived as CIOt5 > > just in time to save the day. By all accounts hise > SAP knowledge is3 > > extensive (having worked for SAP). So he can dok > some things... > 4 > Like what?  Call the consulting division at SAP on > his speed dial?l > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu     =====n ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?% LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experiencev http://launch.yahoo.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:57:39 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: End of an era. ) Message-ID: <3CEA6E73.998DF8D8@127.0.0.1>   
 The CO wrote:  > H > "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message+ > news:acbem7$10h$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...o  K > > except about ten machines are staying, for hostorical purposes, so it'ss- > > going to be nearer a hundred been junked.i > M > Be sure and post the availability of the 'unwanted' VMS boxes to the group.eC > I'm sure there will be plenty willing to give them loving homes..r  B I'll help find a home for a system for you, now I've more room...    -- r( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:47:57 +0000 (UTC)n5 From: "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK>e Subject: Re: End of an era.o1 Message-ID: <acdq7d$9me$1@knossos.btinternet.com>r   I want one!!    4 "The CO" <askme@somewhere.in.oz.au> wrote in message' news:3cea49eb@duster.adelaide.on.net...u >nH > "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message+ > news:acbem7$10h$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk... D > > Spoke too soon. The training and test systems are going as well. > EverythingK > > except about ten machines are staying, for hostorical purposes, so it'so- > > going to be nearer a hundred been junked.  >UF > Be sure and post the availability of the 'unwanted' VMS boxes to the group.C > I'm sure there will be plenty willing to give them loving homes..r >oL > > Everything else has been outsourced so technically "not our problem" but > it > > will be somebodies.d >$ > Hoo yeah.n >u
 > Geoff in Ozo >o >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:03:54 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: End of an era.:) Message-ID: <3CEA6FEA.49D61573@127.0.0.1>   ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:F > F > Well, here I am switching off the VMS boxes at Yell as well... maybeL > another month or so and that'll be it, except for Talking Pages which will > be around for a while. > J > SAP has been 'live' here for 10 days now. This morning SAP services wereJ > unavailable due to 'a known problem with SAP' and are STILL unavailable. > ? > Ho Hum. Oh, and they're running SAP on HP, just for interest.g  1 SAP's a fashion statement, well marketed rubbish.t  D If proof were needed, you *can* sell snow to eskimos, SAP have built their success on it.  F Only this snow sometimes freezes at -26 C, it's a funny yellow* colour and smells.n  H *Coincidental, not intentional! (Just my opinion as a VMS professional).   -- y( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:21:11 -0400e# From: "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com>9 Subject: Re: freeVMS/ Message-ID: <acde3n$1f3$1@license1.unx.sas.com><  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message $ news:acc1ro$4j4$2@web1.cup.hp.com... >> [blip] >rL >   There are also at least three VAX emulators around for PC systems -- theG >   SRI Charon-VAX package, Bob's Trailing-Edge emulator, and one other  whoser? >   name escapes me -- but all have been discussed here before.x  I Just for completeness, I believe that Tim Stark's TS10 emulator has a VAXs< "flavor" and that he has gotten past VMS bootstrap at least.  K There was a fourth one long ago but it never really made it out of the gated+ for lack of documentation on hardware... :)    -- Tom Cole, tom.cole@sas.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:53:16 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: FTP mget on latest files ?S) Message-ID: <3CEA6D6C.FE5328F1@127.0.0.1>k   Samuel Linjer wrote:  F > I have a folder with many files (+1000). New files are created every > day in this folder..D > From the folder i want to copy only the latest via ftp - the files- > that has been created within the last week./  ? I've a 'folder' under VMS with quite a lot of files in as well.   D I use COPY/SINCE to take files since a date and time (held in a fileF with the date of the last transfer) to a temporary area, then push the files from that area..  C I've posted before about it here, look for nclews, FTP and web in ahC newsgroup searcher such as google. I won't repeat the details againe here...   B Oh, found a copy in the outbox, "My OpenVMS web procedures" posted 14-sep-2001.  % > Is this possible with "mget" in FTP  > 
 > Any ideas ?l  ? Perhaps reading my procedures makes you think why VMS is my webS development platform of choice.r   -- r( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:53:24 -0400k! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>S= Subject: Re: Hey, anyone notice that Netscape is different???e' Message-ID: <3CEA5154.E05892AE@vcu.edu>   ? I think it just happened... must have been a Netscape Netcenter 	 oopsie...a   wonder how much flak that got??    Jim Agnew wrote: > G > it spins off a browser window when you first fire it up in messenger?  > this is new, and unwanted..l > 4 > of course, I'd left autoupdates active...  blah... >  > it's off now.. >  > jimw   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:44:33 +0100O* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>5 Subject: How to shrink SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNALiM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E751@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>c   Please could anyone help.f  I We've had a batch job go wrong, and fill up a couple of queue's with overo? 60,000 entries. Our numbering scheme has gone from 1,2,3 etc tonH 5009381,5009382 etc, which is OK, but the SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL( file is now showing the following size :    SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL;1$                            2/1071351  J Is there anyway of shrinking this file without stopping the Queue_Manager?H What is the best cleanest way to get back to our 'normal' state of play?   Running OVMS7.2-1e   Thank you in advance   Andrew Robinsoni   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:15:17 GMTy$ From: Jim Duff <jim@eight-cubed.com>9 Subject: Re: How to shrink SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNALh. Message-ID: <3CEA5673.5010006@eight-cubed.com>   Andrew Robinson wrote:   > Please could anyone help.e > K > We've had a batch job go wrong, and fill up a couple of queue's with overgA > 60,000 entries. Our numbering scheme has gone from 1,2,3 etc torJ > 5009381,5009382 etc, which is OK, but the SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL* > file is now showing the following size : > " > SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL;1& >                            2/1071351 > L > Is there anyway of shrinking this file without stopping the Queue_Manager?J > What is the best cleanest way to get back to our 'normal' state of play? >  > Running OVMS7.2-1  >  > Thank you in advance >  > Andrew Robinsonw >    tryn   $ MC JBC$CONTROL JBC$CONTROL> DIAG 7r JBC$CONTROL> EXITS $e       -- e jim@eight-cubed.comw 1502wu/1.392yrs    ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 09:03:14 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)j9 Subject: Re: How to shrink SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL 3 Message-ID: <a7jJ0J8DEkpa@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  z In article <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E751@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>, Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> writes: > Please could anyone help., > K > We've had a batch job go wrong, and fill up a couple of queue's with over A > 60,000 entries. Our numbering scheme has gone from 1,2,3 etc torJ > 5009381,5009382 etc, which is OK, but the SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL* > file is now showing the following size : > " > SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL;1& >                            2/1071351 > L > Is there anyway of shrinking this file without stopping the Queue_Manager?J > What is the best cleanest way to get back to our 'normal' state of play?      From the FAQ, MGMT27:      $ mcr jbc$command    jbc$command> DIAG 0 7   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:56:37 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o3 Subject: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECNG Message-ID: <pmsG8.75514$t8_.3046@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   H Admittedly these are HPTC folks but..... when will whomever owns OpenVMS4 listen to their customer's concerns about marketing?      8 http://www.supercomputingonline.com/article.php?sid=2047  K "Amid much fanfare last week the new HP began formal operations and hit the I street. This week Supercomputing Online interviewed HP executives Ty Rabe0G and Steven Joachims to get their thoughts on the new HP's place in, ands> potential impact on, the high performance computing industry."   ....   "SCO: How about OpenVMS?    I RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as it hasaL under Compaq and to some extent was the same under Digital before that. It'sI a very, very capable operating system that has an extremely large base ofrL customers who are very loyal and don't want to move to anything else and we'K re going to support them until they don't want to use it anymore. And we'renH going to do that on Alpha now, and it's going to be moved to the ItaniumK product family platforms and customers will be able to use OpenVMS for justw as long as they want to."M   --------------  L Hey HP - The status quo isn't good enough for VMS customers - we want to seeF enough of a marketing push to ensure that there is a vibrant, thrivingG 3rd-party software market across all industry verticals. We want to see K growth in the installed base because that will give us a larger talent pooleL to draw from. In these ways we will feel comfortable in investing further in OpenVMS.  I How can a company like HP have a division (OpenVMS) that brings in nearlyiJ $4B annually across all hardware, software, and services offerings, NOT do= any substantial marketing of this product to *NEW* customers?d  J As a HP shareholder, I'd say that's bordering on, no, it IS dereliction of? duty and deserving of a real shakeup of the Board of Directors.n  < HP, we're awaiting some positive action on all these fronts.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:39:14 -0400e* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>7 Subject: RE: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECd- Message-ID: <0033000064817469000002L092*@MHS>n  B =0AJudging from the promptness and content of the email reply thatB I received when I sent an email that contained issues and concerns ***but was politely stated***i   I think they *are* listening.-   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETo$ Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:15 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET3 Subject: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC     H Admittedly these are HPTC folks but..... when will whomever owns OpenVM= Si4 listen to their customer's concerns about marketing?      : http://www.supercomputingonline.com/article.php?sid=3D2047  H "Amid much fanfare last week the new HP began formal operations and hit=  theH street. This week Supercomputing Online interviewed HP executives Ty Ra= beH and Steven Joachims to get their thoughts on the new HP's place in, and=  > potential impact on, the high performance computing industry."   ...l   "SCO: How about OpenVMS?    H RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as it h= asH under Compaq and to some extent was the same under Digital before that.=  It's7H a very, very capable operating system that has an extremely large base = ofH customers who are very loyal and don't want to move to anything else an= d we'VH re going to support them until they don't want to use it anymore. And w= e'reH going to do that on Alpha now, and it's going to be moved to the Itaniu= m H product family platforms and customers will be able to use OpenVMS for = just as long as they want to."'   --------------  H Hey HP - The status quo isn't good enough for VMS customers - we want t= o seetF enough of a marketing push to ensure that there is a vibrant, thrivingH 3rd-party software market across all industry verticals. We want to see=  H growth in the installed base because that will give us a larger talent = poolH to draw from. In these ways we will feel comfortable in investing furth= er in  OpenVMS.  H How can a company like HP have a division (OpenVMS) that brings in near= lyH $4B annually across all hardware, software, and services offerings, NOT=  don= any substantial marketing of this product to *NEW* customers?g  H As a HP shareholder, I'd say that's bordering on, no, it IS dereliction=  ofn? duty and deserving of a real shakeup of the Board of Directors.e  = HP, we're awaiting some positive action on all these fronts.=    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:04:52 -0500n1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>97 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC.1 Message-ID: <acdurv$pf7$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>v  ! You can add me to that list also.a   Dave...   7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messaged' news:0033000064817469000002L092*@MHS...s  ? Judging from the promptness and content of the email reply thatsB I received when I sent an email that contained issues and concerns ***but was politely stated***_   I think they *are* listening.o   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET $ Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:15 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET3 Subject: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECt    H Admittedly these are HPTC folks but..... when will whomever owns OpenVMS4 listen to their customer's concerns about marketing?      8 http://www.supercomputingonline.com/article.php?sid=2047  K "Amid much fanfare last week the new HP began formal operations and hit theuI street. This week Supercomputing Online interviewed HP executives Ty RabeTG and Steven Joachims to get their thoughts on the new HP's place in, andl> potential impact on, the high performance computing industry."   ...    "SCO: How about OpenVMS?    I RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as it has-L under Compaq and to some extent was the same under Digital before that. It'sI a very, very capable operating system that has an extremely large base ofDL customers who are very loyal and don't want to move to anything else and we'K re going to support them until they don't want to use it anymore. And we'reeH going to do that on Alpha now, and it's going to be moved to the ItaniumK product family platforms and customers will be able to use OpenVMS for justo as long as they want to."    --------------  L Hey HP - The status quo isn't good enough for VMS customers - we want to seeF enough of a marketing push to ensure that there is a vibrant, thrivingG 3rd-party software market across all industry verticals. We want to seeRK growth in the installed base because that will give us a larger talent pooloL to draw from. In these ways we will feel comfortable in investing further in OpenVMS.  I How can a company like HP have a division (OpenVMS) that brings in nearlyoJ $4B annually across all hardware, software, and services offerings, NOT do= any substantial marketing of this product to *NEW* customers?r  J As a HP shareholder, I'd say that's bordering on, no, it IS dereliction of? duty and deserving of a real shakeup of the Board of Directors.i  = HP, we're awaiting some positive action on all these fronts.=P   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:12:19 -0400i  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com1 Subject: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?n? Message-ID: <OFF40156AB.E20B313F-ON85256BC0.004833D1@metso.com>a  L                                                                             L  From the fibre channel slides:                                             L                                                                             L  A V7.3-1 TIMA will later provide HSG80 mini-merge capability and that will L  speed up merge operations quite a bit                                      L                                                                                     C Will this be back-ported to V7.2-2?  (Obviously we have the classicu$ 3rd-party software provider holdup.)  ) If so, will it be at once, weeks, months?o   -Norm    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:52:33 GMT / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) 5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported? - Message-ID: <dZFp2Im57EjR@cuebid.zko.dec.com>n  b In article <OFF40156AB.E20B313F-ON85256BC0.004833D1@metso.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:N >                                                                             N >  From the fibre channel slides:                                             N >                                                                             N >  A V7.3-1 TIMA will later provide HSG80 mini-merge capability and that will N >  speed up merge operations quite a bit                                      N >                                                                             E > Will this be back-ported to V7.2-2?  (Obviously we have the classic & > 3rd-party software provider holdup.)  " It will not be backported.  Sorry.   -- a  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:49:23 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>oY Subject: Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager   availaf8 Message-ID: <sijkeuglfdo6u5c7701eugd9bskq5j5nri@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 21 May 2002 12:43:37 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >o >oH >I'd add that I think I've also been lucky. I've adminned and sysoped atI >various levels on a number of operating systems, I'm with VMS by choice,-H >and if it came to it, the phrase "will the last one out please turn out' >the lights" will probably apply to me.a  A And I've looked after TOPS-20, Unix, VMS, Microshaft, CP/M,NovelloB systems and some exotic proprietary systems but have worked mainlyB with VMS for the last 14 years by choice. As long as there are VMSD systems within commute distance of my home I'll try to stay with VMSF but I'm already at 50 miles distance. Closest job was 1 mile but these days are gone.  D You going to the brewery p*ss up, I mean VMS and Storageworks UpdateB next week? Never met Mark Gorham before so should be interesting.    Who else is going?   >tD >However I'm optimistic and I think I'll find my 'grave' before thatG >happens. Do any crematoriums run the 'ovens' on VMS? That is where I'daH >like to be cooked, and I'll have "Fatal bugcheck dd-mmm-yyyy" somewhere* >near the place I become plant fertilizer.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:38:32 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>eY Subject: Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager   availaVH Message-ID: <IZsG8.75583$t8_.32157@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:sijkeuglfdo6u5c7701eugd9bskq5j5nri@4ax.com... >rF > You going to the brewery p*ss up, I mean VMS and Storageworks UpdateC > next week? Never met Mark Gorham before so should be interesting.  >h > Who else is going? >   / Not me, unfortunately...wrong side of the pond.t  K Do see if you can ask the powers that be some pointed questions about their"B marketing plans for OpenVMS to *NEW* customers (the Slow-laris and Micro$haft types).  H Without lots of new-to-VMS customers coming on-board, the attrition rateI will ensure that our collective VMS careers will be rapidly winding down.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:45:37 +0100h( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager   availaa) Message-ID: <3CEA6BA1.6AC35407@127.0.0.1>l   Alan Greig wrote:  > H > On Tue, 21 May 2002 12:43:37 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > wrote: >   F > You going to the brewery p*ss up, I mean VMS and Storageworks UpdateC > next week? Never met Mark Gorham before so should be interesting.e  G I'll be there. I'd stay over that night if I could find somewhere cheapn8 enough and within crawling distance of the brewery taps.  F Of course I'm interested in meeting Mr. Gorham and hearing what he hasE to say, this is my primary reason for the attendance, I've never beeniD known as one for lining landlords pockets, as many colleagues and exF colleagues will confirm. However, fair pints and fair prices have been known to interest me.h -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:30:27 +0100c( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager availabl ) Message-ID: <3CEA2FD3.9BA73C29@127.0.0.1>p   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Tim Llewellyn wrote:M > > I have unix experience, I cannot get interviews for any type of unix job. J > > The UK market at the moment requires current or very recent experience > > of all skills required.  > N > Which is why if HP wanted us to be on its side, it would offer free trainingO > that would help leverage our VMS experience and knowledge to get job on HP-UX M > and push HP-UX internally at employers. If HP doesn't help us, we will turnm1 > against HP and propose IBM or Sun at employers.w  9 JF, excellent response, agreed, and have you checked out:B  + http://www.openvms.compaq.com/training.htmla  @ Where there's a basic primer, If you look there are other 'free'< resources, some provided and written by people on this list.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:43:37 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager availabl ) Message-ID: <3CEA32E9.1B962B80@127.0.0.1>h   Atlant Schmidt wrote:a >   D > As I've been reading c.o.v. the last few days, I've been wonderingH > about this general topic. A lot of you sound like you're sticking with@ > VMS simply because that's what you know. I wonder if this is a4 > wise choice for the long-term good of your career? >...9 > What do you think? Stay with VMS? Or let it go and moven> > on, if only for the sake of the Salary Continuation Program?  E My career path has been moving to companies that have more and bigger H VMS. Here I feel I'm correctly paid, and I'm happy and work with a greatC bunch of folks, even those that haven't been enlightened about VMS.   G I'd add that I think I've also been lucky. I've adminned and sysoped atNH various levels on a number of operating systems, I'm with VMS by choice,G and if it came to it, the phrase "will the last one out please turn outc& the lights" will probably apply to me.  C However I'm optimistic and I think I'll find my 'grave' before that F happens. Do any crematoriums run the 'ovens' on VMS? That is where I'dG like to be cooked, and I'll have "Fatal bugcheck dd-mmm-yyyy" somewhere2) near the place I become plant fertilizer.a   -- M( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 06:48:05 -07007 From: uwe.leinberger@t-systems.com (Dr. Uwe Leinberger)t% Subject: Re: LISP for OpenVMS Alpha ?3= Message-ID: <b6b2072c.0205210548.39dfc73a@posting.google.com>.  V Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote in message news:<3CE9D55A.1BC7F7C3@rdrop.com>... > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > > 4 > >   Google is available at http://www.google.com/. > I > Whew! Glad you threw that in.  I mean, it'd be damn tough to use GoogleE7 > to find Google if you don't know where Google is. :-/: >  > what?U  > Now, maybe you access comp.os.vms via GOOGLE (just acting as aF http/news interface) alone, but this probably is just a small fractionD of us all here. Most use plain NEWS servers someplace - no google toF be seen anywhere. So it's more likely than not, that google is unknown& to the poster od the original message!   So "Hoff" was wuite right!   Cheers anyway!   UL   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:23:58 +0800r+ From: "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com>t Subject: Log file size* Message-ID: <acdhon$cfp1@rain.i-cable.com>  L I am using VMS7.2-1 on Alpha 8400 and I want to run a detach process and logL the output to a log file. Can I defined the allocated size for the log file?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:27:03 +0200a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: Re: Log file size' Message-ID: <3CEA6747.1ECF4850@aaa.com>t  / Do you want to pre-allocate an empty log file ?mG Or just make sure that there is space to grow your log file *if needed*b ?   H Remember that VMS will extend your log file (when and if needed) as longC as there is space on the volume (or quota for your user on the samet volume).  G The only (?) reason to pre-allocate space would be performance, or thatgH you would like to make sure that nothing else fills your disk during the run of your detached process.p   Jan-Erik Sderholm.'     Kenneth wrote: > N > I am using VMS7.2-1 on Alpha 8400 and I want to run a detach process and logN > the output to a log file. Can I defined the allocated size for the log file?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:07:47 +0100uU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>nM Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesd0 Message-ID: <acdgr5$5u9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  p > In article <Y8fG8.66692$e66.6083222@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >  >  > 	More Sun CPU weakness:i > P > http://www.ideasinternational.com/benchmark/Oracle/stand%20V11i.html#Sorted by > NotesMark  > K > Rank System User Count Average Response Time (sec) Benchmark Version Date* > Submitted  > . > 5 Sun Fire V880 3416 1.900 11.5.3 30-Nov-01 , > 6 Compaq ES45 3304 1.660 11.5.3 14-Mar-02  >  > 5 > 	Running the same version of the Oracle applicationi= > 	suite and 8 UltraSparc III CPUs manage to barely squeek by- > 	4 Alpha CPUs. >     A Bzzt, wrong again you are quoting a 750 Mhz USIII Sun 880 number.p  A Why change the subject anyway, last time I looked the ES45 wasn'ts? a large server from Compaq, they are the GS80/160/320's in case A you need reminding, where is your justification for claiming thate% they lead the pack performance wise ?o    G > 	There are countless other examples cross-platform, whether comparingWG > 	IBM, Intel, HP, or Alpha CPUs.  There are several Sun strengths too.tF > 	It is still one of the weakest, and will probably stay that way, ifD > 	it doesn't disappear altogether.  You have a picture of a company  > 	in total disarray internally: >     @ There are lots of Sun strenths thats the problem and as you have? now had to resort to CINT2000 you have now got to the bottom oft" the barrel with Alphas havn't you.    / > http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020510S0062t > P > Sun Microsystems Inc. recently announced its president, Ed Zander, will retireM > in July. He joins several other execs, including the head of Sun's computergP > systems unit, who will leave and not be replaced. Another Sun executive, AnantQ > Agarwal, who helped build the company's Sparc microprocessor business, left thetQ > company quietly a month ago when a new unit he was trying to establish, focusednN > on communications and security, failed to get sufficient corporate funding.  >     H What has this got to do with the relative performance of SPARC and AlphaE Rob more FUD from you and pathetic at that. If you want FUD what did h" Compaq do when times were tough ??   Sold itself   , What did Digital do when times were tough ??   Sold Itself   . Who is going to buy HP when times get tough ??   IBM, EDS     > A > 	Here is an official prognastication.  Sun adopts IA64 in a big-K > 	way.  UltraSparc V will never happen.  They certainly can't go to AMD.  nH > 	AMD is going to have their oxygen supply ripped out of them over the 
 > 	next year:- >     ; Wow and what value do your official prognostications have ?    WildFire, terrible Spiralog, even worse Galaxies, awfull ISV support, awfullo Alpha, akkkkk gagggg  A You have a track record of almost 100% failure in this department > but don't let it stop you. You are almost too good to be true.     >  >y >> >  > 	"deflecting Andrew's FUD" > C > 	About when did that begin?  1976 or much later?  And where wouldtE > 	that have taken place?  But now we are getting to the pissy stage.  >     4 Do you recall why I started posting to this group ??  9 Your FUD over Sun's involvment in eBay, remember what thew$ outcome was, you had made it all up.  3 So claiming that you are some sort of Sun FUDbuster 5 is do far from the truth as to be laughable, its your , FUD that got me involved in the first place.   Regardst Andrew HarrisonC   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 08:58:23 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) M Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha sales03 Message-ID: <yhFM8Xmwzk5$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <91kG8.53519$th.5156257@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:p > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:ppGoULVPAa9+@eisner.encompasserve.org...eJ >> In article <Y8fG8.66692$e66.6083222@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill( > Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> > >> >> More Sun CPU weakness:  >> >>M > http://www.ideasinternational.com/benchmark/Oracle/stand%20V11i.html#Sortedl > by >> NotesMark >>L >> Rank System User Count Average Response Time (sec) Benchmark Version Date >> Submitted >>. >> 5 Sun Fire V880 3416 1.900 11.5.3 30-Nov-01, >> 6 Compaq ES45 3304 1.660 11.5.3 14-Mar-02 >> >>5 >> Running the same version of the Oracle applicatione= >> suite and 8 UltraSparc III CPUs manage to barely squeek byn >> 4 Alpha CPUs. > N > Of course, you neglect to mention that the ES45 was running the latest (1001J > MHz) Alphas while the Sun box was running 750 MHz USIIIs rather than theM > current top-of-the-line 1050 MHz USIIIs.  700ish MHz Alphas would have beend= > about right if you wanted an apples-to-apples comparison...s >   A 	Not neglect.  It is almost impossible to get "apples to apples".dB 	What you can do is use your imagination and suggest that "gee, ifB 	the Sun CPUs were 20% faster, they would still be behind Alphas."  A 	To jump back to 700 MHz on Alpha is to go back over 2 years, why C 	not suggest the Sun CPUs are faster than EV5?  That would tilt the  	tables a little better.     >>G >> There are countless other examples cross-platform, whether comparing G >> IBM, Intel, HP, or Alpha CPUs.  There are several Sun strengths too.bF >> It is still one of the weakest, and will probably stay that way, ifD >> it doesn't disappear altogether.  You have a picture of a company  >> in total disarray internally: >>0 >> http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020510S0062 > J > Er, I think you may have provided the wrong URL above:  the company that8 > appears to be in major disarray in that article is HP. > ? > As for Sun's grievous straits, try this one (watch for wrap):f > N > http://www.silicon.com/bin/bladerunner?30REQEVENT=&REQAUTH=21046&14001REQSUB > =REQINT1=53435 > G > 17% year-over-year shipment growth in a down market, no less:  64% of N > *total* Unix shipments and 54% of *total* Unix revenue (i.e., more shipmentsK > and revenue than all the other Unix competition combined) on 3.3% revenuea	 > growth.y > H > Oh, wait:  Windows is going to rip out the soft underbelly of the Unix > market.  Right.6 >   ? 	Yep.  And by the way, all those Sun growth numbers are hollow.   < 	Sun went from shipping $12 billion dollars worth of product1 	YTD 2001 to $6.6 billion dollars worth YTD 2002.   Q http://www.edgar-online.com/bin/edgardoc/finSys_main.asp?dcn=0000891618-02-002345I  w>               Three Months Ended        Nine Months Ended     Q               March 31, 2002            April 1, 2001        March 31, 2002        April 1, 2001     ? Net revenues:                                                  iQ       Products           $  2,269        $  3,262            $  6,586            o $  11,922     U       Services                838             833               2,490                -
 2,333            T    Total net revenues       3,107           4,095               9,076                14,255     g     > ...b > A >> Here is an official prognastication.  Sun adopts IA64 in a bigtI >> way.  UltraSparc V will never happen.  They certainly can't go to AMD.sG >> AMD is going to have their oxygen supply ripped out of them over the 
 >> next year:  > I > Ah.  Another prognostication along the lines of "Wildfire will blow the H > doors off everything in sight!" and "McKinley may well debut with evenK > faster than 1.4 GHz clocking!"  Thanks, but I think most people will look ( > for a seer with a better track record. >   = 	No better than your track record regarding Walter's chances.   G > Meanwhile, let's see how Hammer adoption goes:  certainly seems to be A > gathering more and more steam these days (unlike, say, Itanic).a  = 	Steam, sure.  But their money maker is going to go away longr= 	before they can make it up with Hammer.  Let's see how AMD's ! 	revenues are come October, okay?-   >  >> >>7 >> http://news.com.com/2100-1040-917021.html?tag=fd_topr >>& >> Intel chipsets bring lower-cost PCs >>, >> The chipsets also offer built-in graphics > N > Just like those Cyrix (IIRC) processors that took over the world a few years > ago. >   C 	Nope.  Didn't have Intel selling them nor Gateway and Dell jumping 6 	right on it out of the gate.  Early adoption, get it?    ( >  and newer features, such as UniversalL >> Serial Bus 2.0. A system for connecting devices like cameras to a PC, USB > 2.0iG >> supports faster data transfer, speeding up tasks such as downloadingr
 > pictures >> from a digital camera.  > E > Wow!  That'll sure be a must-have for the server market, all right.  >   % 	Obviously not targetted for servers.i   >>H >> The integration of the graphics chip, while it might sound like small > potatoes,aL >> is a big event in the component world. Typically, a low-end graphics card > costs K >> between $25 and $30. By removing the chip, PC makers can eliminate about  > $50VH >> from the end price of a PC. Manufacturers can use that savings to cut > prices orsI >> to add more memory or better components while keeping prices the same.l > I > Hoo, hah!  Can't hardly wait.  Sun and IBM servers are toast!  (Alphas,V > too.)i >   % 	Obviously not targetted for servers.v   >> >>F >> It isn't just the CPU.  Intel will suck everything into the chipset9 >> that can go there.  AMD doesn't have much of a chance.u > M > Of course not:  they have nowhere near the integration resources that CyrixtN > had.  Assuming that consumers will adopt the on-chip video, etc., route withH > the same rampant enthusiasm they've exhibited for, say, on-board audio > (not). >   A 	Of course they will.   I suppose you are suggesting it will kill5B 	overall performance?  To suggest they don't have the intergration@ 	resources is laughable.  Their pockets and R&D dollars far out- 	weigh anything Cyrix had.  N > Do you have any idea of the range of just video cards that exists out there?N > That's because of competition that depends on product cycles about 1/10th asM > long as processor product cycles:  come out with even high-end video (whichtL > would have its own economic drawbacks) on the processor chip, and it'll beH > obsolete within a few months (and even Intel doesn't really want to be+ > changing its processor masks that often).  > M > And while lowest-common-denominator video might fly, there's no real profitu2 > down there.  No win there, Rob:  clueless again. >   B 	We will see won't we.  Call me clueless.  Call Dean clueless too:  4 http://news.com.com/2100-1040-917021.html?tag=fd_top  J Chipsets may "not be very exciting to most PC buyers," said Dean McCarron,H principal analyst at Mercury Research. "But the cost reduction that 845GK enables is going to let the Pentium 4-class (components) get to lower priced7 points that it simply isn't able to get to right now." n  % 	We will see just how low AMD can go.b   				Rob.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 05:57:48 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)L Subject: Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts)= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205210457.55ade488@posting.google.com>a  d hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<acc374$4j4$4@web1.cup.hp.com>...^ > In article <87r8klqqw3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:> > :Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: > : Q > :> > Interesting that thew new DS20 has a SCISI controller  with a mention "for  > :> > Linux only".7 >  1 > :> This is the DS20L.  >               ^r6 > :> > Can anyone care to explain what this is about ? >   N > :> There was a thread here a while back about this being a very specialised D > :> box and not supported on VMS---or do you have another question? > :w1 > :So is this a Not-Blue box, or a Not-White box?i > O >   The AlphaServer DS20L is a box specifically targeting a particular market,  M >   and the folks in that market wanted a particular operating system on the m
 >   box.   > K >   OpenVMS is supporting the AlphaServer DS20E, AlphaServer DS10 (both theaL >   older box and the newer one with the front-mount disks) and AlphaServer L >   DS10L series, and planning to support the dual-processor variant of the  >   EV7 systems. b > M >   Write HP a check for enough of these boxes specifically running OpenVMS,  F >   and I'm certain we can port OpenVMS over to the AlphaServer DS20L. > K >   (The AlphaServer DS20L was discussed at length in this newsgroup, and IfL >   am certain that even a cursory search will turn up some of the threads.) > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  G their is still a need for a single processor workstation for small workfE groups/offices, and small business ... I hope they don't forget that!h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:12:04 +0100I% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>rL Subject: Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts)8 Message-ID: <3blkeu82me062re8k8tavb1uji6mjn5irr@4ax.com>  A On 21 May 2002 05:57:48 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)t wrote:   > H >their is still a need for a single processor workstation for small workF >groups/offices, and small business ... I hope they don't forget that!  E There will be no single processor EV7 based motherboard - workstationrF or otherwise. I don't know if they intend to continue EV6 based single processor systems.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 06:52:19 -0700" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) Subject: OpenVMS wizard = Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0205210552.6a3fda6c@posting.google.com>   D Dunno if the wizard (who ever or what ever he/she/it is) follows the3 NG. If I was a betting man I'd bet that he does)...   E Every so often I pop over an check out the responses over there - getwC some interesting stuff from time to time. Maybe it's just me but it D seems like it's been a bit longer than usual since the last batch ofE responses was posted. Has the pachyderm been drafted into the portingo effort?????o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:23:12 -0500U& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>U Subject: Re: Other HP printers and USB (was: Newest version of DCPS and our  problem)l8 Message-ID: <j1mkeuc9da8sc6kc65s4q83mqn6ger1v4e@4ax.com>  , On Mon, 20 May 2002 18:53:27 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:u     > O >It seems to me that HP is pushing HPCL far more, when you consider the volumesy) >of low cost HPCL-only printers it ships.- > M >Don't get me wrong, I love postscript, but I seem to be cursed because everycM >technology I choose to become proficient in seems to quickly lose popularitym4 >once my skills become good enough to market myself.  4 Ah, so we can blame the decline of VMS on you, then?  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq-- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)1   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:56:47 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>FT Subject: Re: Other HP printers and USB (was: Newest version of DCPS and our problem)9 Message-ID: <PetG8.17$MT6.522371@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   = JF Mezei wrote in message <3CE97E59.1083C088@videotron.ca>...) >Dirk Munk wrote:i >>> >> Indeed , I would like to use a Postscript printer over USB. > < >How many years away is VMS-capable hardware with USB port ? >rD >Frankly, I don't see  GS class machines with a USB port on them :-) >iH >Does anyone know if HP intends to produce Alpha workstations until IA64 stuff:I >is viable ? Would they bother adding USB support to Alpha workstations ?s >d  " Ah, JF, always such an upbeat guy.  G You can plug the lucient PCI card into any EV6 system (don't know about-K earlier ones, but probably them as well).  The Marvel systems come with USBoJ ports (2 are accessable on the 2p box, 4 on the larger systems).  In fact,J I'm currently showing off a 2p Marvel running 2 seats (2 monitors, 2 kb, 2 mice) at a meeting next door.o  D All of the Itanium systems have USB, and McKinley systems seem to be "legacy-free" (like Marvel).  I >Considering cable limitations of USB, how many would actually be able to  plug$ >in a printer near enough a server ? >r  > If it's too far away, buy a powered hub.  This is a USB issue.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:41:51 +1000 / From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>06 Subject: Re: Queue info via Web Server (Apache & WASD)0 Message-ID: <R7lG8.611$l62.25326@ozemail.com.au>   >i > How about this?t >p2 >   $ Set queue fred /description=">Fred Printer<" >U? > Show queue, and your browser, will both show <>Fred Printer<>  > 
 > Ian Burgess  > University of Queensland > I.Burgess[at]its.uq.edu.au > www.its.uq.edu.auf  8 If this works then I think it qualifies as a "neat hack" Phil   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:15:28 GMTr5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>p* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts9 Message-ID: <kwtG8.19$BT6.515158@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>t  I Weeeell, it's probably not a big deal to support it engineering wise, but J there are enough nits that it isn't for free.  People fail to realize thatB just writing the code is sometimes the simplest and cheapest part./ Qualification for it isn't free, as an example.r  H We have had exactly 1 large customer who was interested in this briefly,9 they changed their minds after they looked at it closely.0  K So, since this is not a strategic platform in any sense of the word, it's a,H buy-out designed for a specific customer and market, we are not going toC invest in it.  We'd rather spend the resources on new features, andd  strategic platforms like Marvel.   _Fredw    % Robert Deininger wrote in message ...oD >In article <3CE90603.71B5E82D@clarityconnect.com>, "Mark D. Jilson"" ><jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote: >nD >>The DS20L is a box that was built and targeted for a very specificF >>market and customer.  If someone has a requirement for a boatload ofF >>systems running VMS for which the DS20L would be an exact fit I sureH >>that your sales person would be happy to get folks involved that could. >>discuss the cost to qualify VMS on this box. >oF >In the case of the DS20L, it's not just a question of qualifying VMS. > F >This box is sufficiently different from the others that VMS has neverJ >booted on it, AFAIK.  Non-trivial coding would have to be done to support	 >the box.i >oJ >Yes, a customer with a big enough checkbook could change this, but so far >none have come forward.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:22:11 +0100g( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: scsi clustera( Message-ID: <3CEA2DE3.C1C7D80@127.0.0.1>   "John N." wrote:F > I have a DS10 with one scsi controller and an AS2100 with three scsiC > controllers. They both have ethernet, so that will be the clusterwJ > interconnect, but I want to connect to the DS10 to the HSZ70 that is nowH > connected only to the 2100.  The HSZ70 is connected to the second scsiM > controller on the 2100, therefore the 2100 sees all the disks on the HSZ as 	 > $1$dkB*b > N > But if I connect the only scsi adapter in the DS10 into the HSZ, it sees the > disks as $1$dkA*L > This won't work;  will it?  I would rather not re-configure the 2100, so tN > looks like I need to put a second scsi controller in the DS10 and connect to0 > the HSZ that way.  Is this a valid conclusion?  A I've read the responses so far, so I thought I'd chuck my oar in.   G Clusters let you get away with configurations which are not necessarilyz	 the best.e  G There is no problem having a disk on one system as DKAn and DKBn on theaH other system. You're seeing the 'ghost' drives because you are also MSCPD serving the disks. If this is a two node cluster, why MSCP serve theE disks? If the system is down, so will any local disks, it's not as if. there is some other path.i  @ You can avoid different naming by using the DISK$volume_label toG reference each disk, totally independent of the physical drive name. IncE this case, differing controller names is an inconvenience, classed aseG cosmetic. No damage will occur because VMS keeps the data structures in 9 order which ever way the drives and data is/are accessed.m  H In your situation, if you want a shared quorum disk, then ideally you'llF have the shared drives in an independently powered shelf, e.g. BA350 /G 356 with dual interface. (Your case, HSZ qualifies). You *will* have tooF use the (port) allocation class on each system as previously discussed in order to satisfy  DISK_QUORUM="$n$DKAx"tG There are other threads previously discussed on setting these disks up,aA search on (e.g.) Google or, check the documentation as mentioned.n+ AskOpenVMS is also a good resource from thesC http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ website, search for "port allocationa class" and other keywords.  H The one gotcha I'll emphasize is your first boot with a quorum disk must be full and with quorum.  D BTW, do knock off the SCSI_RESET for the SCSI controllers at consoleA level to reduce the number of mount verifies and (normal) errors.    -- T( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 07:50:56 -0400b2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: scsi cluster L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2105020750570001@11cust238.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  2 In article <3CEA2DE3.C1C7D80@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:h    B >I've read the responses so far, so I thought I'd chuck my oar in. > H >Clusters let you get away with configurations which are not necessarily
 >the best. >tH >There is no problem having a disk on one system as DKAn and DKBn on theI >other system. You're seeing the 'ghost' drives because you are also MSCP-E >serving the disks. If this is a two node cluster, why MSCP serve thexF >disks? If the system is down, so will any local disks, it's not as if >there is some other path.  H I'm not an expert on cluster internals, but this sounds dangerous.  If aF node sees DKAn and DKBn, won't there be separate volume locks for bothI names?  Isn't there potential for two nodes to get simultaneous exclusive D locks on the volume (one with each name) and then corrupt the disks?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:41:18 -0500o& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: scsi cluster 8 Message-ID: <mijkeuo3ir9ssguit3lge2v48pbqk3dfnv@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 21 May 2002 07:50:56 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert0 Deininger) wrote:2  3 >In article <3CEA2DE3.C1C7D80@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews   ><sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote: >  > C >>I've read the responses so far, so I thought I'd chuck my oar in.2 >>I >>Clusters let you get away with configurations which are not necessarily  >>the best.- >>I >>There is no problem having a disk on one system as DKAn and DKBn on the J >>other system. You're seeing the 'ghost' drives because you are also MSCPF >>serving the disks. If this is a two node cluster, why MSCP serve theG >>disks? If the system is down, so will any local disks, it's not as ifh >>there is some other path.d >tI >I'm not an expert on cluster internals, but this sounds dangerous.  If agG >node sees DKAn and DKBn, won't there be separate volume locks for both J >names?  Isn't there potential for two nodes to get simultaneous exclusiveE >locks on the volume (one with each name) and then corrupt the disks?a   In a word... "Yes"!eE Don't do this.  EVER.  Unless you really just want to use those disks, as write-only devices.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqe- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail))   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:03:40 +0100r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: scsi clusterr) Message-ID: <3CEA53BC.656B082C@127.0.0.1>t   Robert Deininger wrote:9 > 4 > In article <3CEA2DE3.C1C7D80@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews! > <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:o > J > >There is no problem having a disk on one system as DKAn and DKBn on theK > >other system. You're seeing the 'ghost' drives because you are also MSCPhG > >serving the disks. If this is a two node cluster, why MSCP serve theoH > >disks? If the system is down, so will any local disks, it's not as if > >there is some other path. > J > I'm not an expert on cluster internals, but this sounds dangerous.  If aH > node sees DKAn and DKBn, won't there be separate volume locks for bothK > names?  Isn't there potential for two nodes to get simultaneous exclusive F > locks on the volume (one with each name) and then corrupt the disks?  G Disclaimer: I've not run non PAC'ed clusters in anger, but when setting F them up initially with using the PAC, there's never been an issue I'veC encountered. The very fact that PAC's are optional suggests that it H isn't dangerous. I'm reasonably certain that the the volume name is usedA in the distributed locks for files-11 volumes, (ANAL/SYS, SH LOCKt suggests this).i  E If no-one can recount any (non ECO related) horror stories, then I'lld stand by my original post. -- V( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com>   ------------------------------   Date: 21 May 2002 11:53:02 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edun& Subject: selective failure, MX and DNS+ Message-ID: <acdceu$r58$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>i   Hello,  E Out of the blue it appears that MX can not find DNS for some machinesd; ucx sho host and ucx sho host/nolocal finds them just fine.x  ( vms 7.2, tcpip 5.0A, MX 5.1, Netlib 2.2F   From the smtp log:  P 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.73 Processing queue entry number 71 on node NIUHEP for path	  number 2tD 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.82   Recipient: <MORRIS@TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDU>, route=TBONE  .PHYSICS.NIU.EDUO 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.86   SMTP_SEND: looking up host name TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDUiL 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.88   SMTP_SEND: NETLIB_DNS_MX_LOOKUP status is 00000870H 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.89              -- %SYSTEM-W-ENDOFFILE, end of fileN 20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.15   1 rcpts need retry, next try 20-MAY-2002 19:38:13.156 20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.20 *** End of processing pass ***  - Any suggestions on what the problem could be?g  ! Thanks for any help you can give.    Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:31:45 GMTe( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>* Subject: Re: selective failure, MX and DNS, Message-ID: <R6rG8.12664$CC3.5355@sccrnsc01>  B You'd probably get a better response by posting this to the MX ng, vmsnet.mail.mx.   0 <system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote in message% news:acdceu$r58$1@husk.cso.niu.edu...n > Hello, >nG > Out of the blue it appears that MX can not find DNS for some machinesd= > ucx sho host and ucx sho host/nolocal finds them just fine.W >i* > vms 7.2, tcpip 5.0A, MX 5.1, Netlib 2.2F >  > From the smtp log: >-I > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.73 Processing queue entry number 71 on node NIUHEPc for path >  number 2eF > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.82   Recipient: <MORRIS@TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDU>,
 > route=TBONE5 > .PHYSICS.NIU.EDU; > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.86   SMTP_SEND: looking up host namea TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDUsE > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.88   SMTP_SEND: NETLIB_DNS_MX_LOOKUP status isy 00000870J > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.89              -- %SYSTEM-W-ENDOFFILE, end of fileD > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.15   1 rcpts need retry, next try 20-MAY-2002 19:38:13.15a8 > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.20 *** End of processing pass *** >"/ > Any suggestions on what the problem could be?  >r# > Thanks for any help you can give.h >t > Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 21 May 2002 13:28:20 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.eduo* Subject: Re: selective failure, MX and DNS* Message-ID: <acdi1k$5g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>  W In article <R6rG8.12664$CC3.5355@sccrnsc01>, "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> writes:rC >You'd probably get a better response by posting this to the MX ng,a >vmsnet.mail.mx.  A I don't get vmsnet here so that I didn't think of that, thanks.  AF (Google posting, yuck) I did post it to the mx mailing list, but I am ; desparate so I am trying to cast as wide a net as possible.i  1 ><system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote in message & >news:acdceu$r58$1@husk.cso.niu.edu...	 >> Hello,  >>H >> Out of the blue it appears that MX can not find DNS for some machines> >> ucx sho host and ucx sho host/nolocal finds them just fine. >>+ >> vms 7.2, tcpip 5.0A, MX 5.1, Netlib 2.2Fp >> >> From the smtp log:a >>J >> 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.73 Processing queue entry number 71 on node NIUHEP	 >for path- >>  number 2G >> 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.82   Recipient: <MORRIS@TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDU>,e >> route=TBONE >> .PHYSICS.NIU.EDUq< >> 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.86   SMTP_SEND: looking up host name >TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDUF >> 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.88   SMTP_SEND: NETLIB_DNS_MX_LOOKUP status is	 >00000870mK >> 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.89              -- %SYSTEM-W-ENDOFFILE, end of file E >> 20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.15   1 rcpts need retry, next try 20-MAY-2002  >19:38:13.159 >> 20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.20 *** End of processing pass ***I >>0 >> Any suggestions on what the problem could be? >>$ >> Thanks for any help you can give. >> >> Robert Morphis  >s >-   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 02:23:08 -0700( From: mattsimis@hotmail.com (Matt Simis)4 Subject: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??= Message-ID: <b4a22604.0205210123.7787e4a4@posting.google.com>s   Hi All,s  G I asked this some time ago and we didnt get far, so Ill give it anotherV shot.   K I have an Alpha 21264a CPU (bare). I need a (any it would appear) 21264 CPUu* daughtercard (aka module) and motherboard.J Does anyone have any ideas. I have tried Harddata and some other retailers0 and they claimed they wont/cant sell such parts.  I My research indicates that the DP264 motherboard and a daughtercard would G work.. but where to find empty motherboards? The CPU itself is rated atGJ 733MHz, but I have been led to believe that it would simply run at a lower3 speed (500MHz in a DP264?) in a slower motherboard.e  t  s# Any other suggestions most welcome,t  j     b Matt   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 03:56:14 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>% Subject: Re: System manager available-@ Message-ID: <20020521105614.16278.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>  1 If I change career, what it is almost impossible h3 after almost 15 years working with support, I wouldn. like to be a Travel Agent...even I think Waste4 management will be much interesting as a business in a few years !    Regardsz   FC n    * --- Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > 4 > > In article <3CE8F798.85C87D28@blueyonder.co.uk>,3 > >  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>l	 > writes:i > > |> > > |> > > |> Paul Sture wrote: > > |> > > > |> > In articlee* > <FmnXGxf21SVQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,/ > kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:t2 > > |> > > In article <3CE1D332.9592C5D2@fsi.net>,5 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:D > > |> > >> Bill Sticker wrote:i > > |> > >>>5 > > |> > >>> I'd switch to anything if I could find au > job. > > |> > >>44 > > |> > >> I've often said that I wished I'd gotten > that job on the garbager > > |> > >> truck...
 > > |> > >( > > |> > > Which is shorthand for NT/W2K > developer/system mangler?  :)c > > |> >3 > > |> > I'd prefer to be a real garbage collector.8 > Early start, early finish,/ > > |> > physical exercise, can sleep at night.o > > |> > > > |># > > |> but can u live on the wages?  > > 6 > > My garbageman owns a house worth easily 8x what my > house is worth and1 > > I struggle to make the mortgage payment everyf > month just like most ofa6 > > my neighbors.  We may live by the rule "Garbage in > - Garbage out" but5 > > it looks like they live by the rule "Garbage in -c > Gold out".  :-(  > 6 > Like dentistry, hauling away peoples trash pays well > because it's a) > nasty [and occasionally dangerous] job.M     =====m ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Braziln fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?% LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experiencet http://launch.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:45:14 -0400b! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>r% Subject: Re: System manager availablea' Message-ID: <3CEA415A.FF960C56@vcu.edu>   @ i've thought about restuarant management...  seeing my customers@ appreciate and eat what I "program" may be a nice change.... ;-D   Jim:   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > 2 > If I change career, what it is almost impossible5 > after almost 15 years working with support, I woulde0 > like to be a Travel Agent...even I think Waste6 > management will be much interesting as a business in > a few years !  > 	 > Regardsv >  > FC > , > --- Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > >I6 > > > In article <3CE8F798.85C87D28@blueyonder.co.uk>,5 > > >  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>  > > writes:F > > > |> > > > |> > > > |> Paul Sture wrote:
 > > > |> > > > > |> > In article , > > <FmnXGxf21SVQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,1 > > kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:a4 > > > |> > > In article <3CE1D332.9592C5D2@fsi.net>,7 > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e! > > > |> > >> Bill Sticker wrote:s > > > |> > >>>7 > > > |> > >>> I'd switch to anything if I could find ae > > job.
 > > > |> > >>h6 > > > |> > >> I've often said that I wished I'd gotten > > that job on the garbagee > > > |> > >> truck... > > > |> > >* > > > |> > > Which is shorthand for NT/W2K! > > developer/system mangler?  :)'
 > > > |> >5 > > > |> > I'd prefer to be a real garbage collector.o > > Early start, early finish,1 > > > |> > physical exercise, can sleep at night.t
 > > > |> > > > > |>% > > > |> but can u live on the wages?r > > >i8 > > > My garbageman owns a house worth easily 8x what my > > house is worth and3 > > > I struggle to make the mortgage payment every0 > > month just like most of 8 > > > my neighbors.  We may live by the rule "Garbage in > > - Garbage out" but7 > > > it looks like they live by the rule "Garbage in -S > > Gold out".  :-(  > > 8 > > Like dentistry, hauling away peoples trash pays well > > because it's a+ > > nasty [and occasionally dangerous] job.o >  > =====h > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilt > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?' > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experiencea > http://launch.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 04:04:44 -0700 (PDT):. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>7 Subject: Re: TCP/IP intermittent dropping of connection.@ Message-ID: <20020521110444.47563.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>   Gary   Check if...:  ( a) Your switch/hub is in autosense mode;' b) If you dont use, disable the Routings in TCPIP Services.     Regardst   FC c0 --- Gary Williamson <garywill@eircom.net> wrote:1 > We have a VMS cluster running OpenVMS V7.2-2 ons > Alpha V7.2 on MicroVAX6 > and Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version > V5.1 - ECO 3 >   > COILL - AlphaServer 2100 4/200 > OAK - AlphaServer 1000 4/266   > GIS - MicroVAX 3100-90 > / > We have been experiencing intermittent TCP/IPh > connectivity dropout.16 > Several times a day TCP/IP connectivity will be lost > between a VMS 4 > server and one or more Windows 2000 or VMS or Unix > servers. This is5 > observable by request timeouts when pinging the VMS  > server from thesey0 > other servers. The problem may only last a few > minutes and then6 > resolve itself or it may require a stop and start of	 > TCP/IP.n > 5 > One hunch that we are trying to investigate is thatc
 > it could bes5 > resulting from LPD queues that are servicing remoter > LPD printers over 4 > dialup connections. We have Compaq T1010 terminals > which have an LPDr. > server. There is a Compaq LA30W line printer > attached to these. These > connect over ISDN dialup.h > 4 > We do not have any local LPD printers. We have LPD > service stopped andc1 > disabled. (we have also tried with this on - noo
 > difference)g > 3 > Errors we have received if we drop the connectionr > when printing to a > remote printer are:  >  > % > %TCPIP-I-LPD_LOGSUC, using log files' > SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$LPD]BALLYTEST.LOGa5 > %TCPIP-I-LPD_SYMBRUN, symbiont is running the queue  > BALLYTEST * > lpd$ast_handler save_entry_number = 1518, > %TCPIP-F-LPD_BADPORT, error getting a port* > lpd$ast_handler save_entry_number = 1520, > %TCPIP-F-LPD_BADPORT, error getting a port* > lpd$ast_handler save_entry_number = 1537, > %TCPIP-F-LPD_BADPORT, error getting a port >  > 3 > I can understand a queue getting messed up if then > connection isl3 > dropped while printing, but surely this shouldn'ta > cause connectivity% > to local servers to be interrupted.r > 1 > BTW we have changed switches, network cards ands > cables to no avail.s3 > Originally we had all printer queues on COILL, we  > have now split themS6 > so that all the dialup printer queues are on OAK and > queus over fixed4 > lines (Frame Relay) are on COILL. We use TELNETSYM > printing on COILLs4 > also for some printers. We are still experienceing > problems on both > OAK and COILLb > 4 > Any ideas, we are completely stumped and naturally > getting a lot of > flack from irrate users. >  > Thanks in advance8 >  > Gary Williamsone     =====t ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?% LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experienceh http://launch.yahoo.comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:36:33 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d7 Subject: Re: TCP/IP intermittent dropping of connection 8 Message-ID: <4m8keu0qvij70rmatpaoueqb7huvgktoe3@4ax.com>  4 On Tue, 21 May 2002 01:02:23 GMT, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:u     >s* >Possible causes for such outages include:  ? Also misconfiguration of auto negotiation Duplex setting if theh network is 100Mb/sec.    >o8 >Browser election war from misconfigured LANMAN servers. >a >-John >wb8tyw@qsl.network  >Personal Opinion Only   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:12:58 -0500a( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>B Subject: Re: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse8 Message-ID: <jclkeucbifc6kfum994rh9g18fmc6ddkb0@4ax.com>  L On Mon, 20 May 2002 11:07:58 GMT, John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu> wrote:   >eE >ISTR they are skipping V5.2 in the version numbering and V5.3 is in g >external field test.2  J Just unpacked my "Q2 CY2002" Software Products Library and the index lists7 TCPIP V5.3 as being on the CDs.  We'll have to play....       N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204kI                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634 G Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999  3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215r   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 08:50:05 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c( Subject: Re: Unix on VaxStation 4000 90A3 Message-ID: <2SS3NXbxv6zf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <3CE9BFEE.2C71EF@email.uc.edu>, David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> writes:a > & > WHich versions of Unix run on VAX??? > I > I would Guess Ultrix and linux/ BSD but what I was really wondering was F > are there DecUnix versions that run on VAX and what they might be???  H    Ultrix was DEC's UNIX for VAX and MIPS.  The OSF/1 based digital UNIXG    (now Tru64 UNIX) was never ported to a VAX.  A MIPS port was planned     but never executed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:16:55 -0500a: From: "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov>( Subject: Re: Unix on VaxStation 4000 90A+ Message-ID: <acdkt5$3qs$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>w  K There was a VAX ULTRIX, but it might have been killed before the VAXstationtJ 4000/90A came out.  In any case, unless you really want the ULTRIX dialectL of UNIX, perhaps to run a specific ULTRIX-dependent program, I can't imagine any use for it today.l  K Maintaining an operating system port for an architecture takes work.  ThereaL have been rumors off and on about a VAX port of Linux, but none that I would take seriously.c  J There are three popular versions of BSD, FreeBSD being the only one portedK to a lot of architectures, including VAX, including the VAXstation 4000/90,T5 /90A, and /96.  See http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/vax/.   K Be careful before you spend money.  By the time you bulk up memory and diskeJ on an old computer, you might be paying more to run a minority port of BSDI on a slow CPU than you would pay for mainstream BSD or Linux on a new PC.d  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541s scandora@cmt.anl.gov    9 "David Michaels" <michaedi@email.uc.edu> wrote in messagea$ news:3CE9BFEE.2C71EF@email.uc.edu... > Hi,u >.& > WHich versions of Unix run on VAX??? >eI > I would Guess Ultrix and linux/ BSD but what I was really wondering was F > are there DecUnix versions that run on VAX and what they might be??? >  >tI > Sorry, If this is off topic,, Perhaps I should have said which versions B > of Unix can I run on a Vax with "VMS' and Multiple hard disks... >s >g >e > Thanks > Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:24:59 -0500<: From: "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov>= Subject: Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help neededB+ Message-ID: <acdnc4$43h$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>   H DCPS is a fine product for PostScript printers, but the LN03 language isL defunct.  Wouldn't it be nice if VMS came with PCL libraries that would makeE it as easy to print landscape on a PCL printer as it was on an L:N03?:  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541n scandora@cmt.anl.gov  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message $ news:acc826$7fu$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > H > In article <20020520124052.38149.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio* Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:0 > :Maybe in a few months OpenVMS 7.3-X will have6 > :embedded HP drivers. Printers, CD-RW, Scanners, etc- > :...all those Software stuff for OpenVMS!!!y > :n > :Any idea about this ? >sJ >   OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 will not include special embedded printer driversI >   for HP or other (Postscript) printers, DCPS -- which is licensed withhH >   OpenVMS and is seperately installed -- is (still) required.  VariousJ >   HP printers are supported by DCPS.  (I would also prefer to completelyJ >   avoid the Windows "driver" scheme in preference for a more generic set6 >   of interfaces if such is feasible, but I digress.) > F >   For IP-based printers and for HP JetDirect access, TCP/IP ServicesI >   or a third-party IP stack is required.  Various HP printers function.  >MI >   CDRECORD is expect to be included in V7.3-1, and this software should8J >   work with HP CD-R drives -- I haven't specifically tried an HP widget.7 >   (LD is also appearing on the OpenVMS distribution.)a > E >   OpenVMS does not presently provide integrated scanner support, sos/ >   this project would be, um, mildly involved.s >rG >   HP IA-64 systems will be bootstrapping OpenVMS as part of the port.- >-J >   I would expect to see better support for HP printers and other devicesL >   over time (both as part of OpenVMS or OpenVMS ECO kits, and also as partL >   of the distributions that accompany many of the HP devices), but OpenVMS6 >   V7.3-1 is simply too far along for this inclusion. >s >y( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------b1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringe hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:48:05 +0100oU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>fH Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools?0 Message-ID: <acdmn7$7j7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <ac3fn9$cn1$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >> >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >>$ >>>Bill Sticker wrote in message ... >>>P >>>SM >>>>When you upgrade a Sun, do you test it beforehand? Do you let someone whos
 >>>>doesnt? >>>>know the operating system, or read the release notes do it?  >>>> >>>>L >>>Uh, you can't "upgrade" to a Sun... there isn't an "up" in that movement. >>>. >>>> >>9 >>Words that will come back to haunt you when people have>" >>to downgrade from Alpha to IA64. >> >> > 
 > 	Downgrade?o > E > 	Hee-hee-hee... they have 200 Alpha Engineers added to the hundreds-C > 	of Intel engineers, many of them top shelf, including Dileep whoo2 > 	jumped ship 7 years ago from Alpha development: >     4 Are you sure that you and Bob arn't the same person.  A None of the engineers inherited by Intel can have had anything toa> do with McKinley and there appears to be little or no Alpha IP? in the follow on. So when HP start asking their HP-PA customersP= to move to IA64 the processor that they will be shipping wille? have had little or no impact from the influx of Alpha designersh% into Intel and nor will its sucessor.t  > Let me know when you ahve invented a working time machine, its? the only way that Bob and your wild fantasies will be realised.C  = As ever its a joy to read your posts, thought through as wella as they are.   Regardsa Andrew Harrison0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:22:29 +0100o* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>, Subject: RE: Volume shadowing and a disasterM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E750@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>:  E We had a situation where the floor void in our main computer room waseG flooded. The flooding covered all the power rails and caused arcing andeK spikes, to the point where you could see flashing underwater, why it didn't H trip the UPS's is still open to discussion. We had a VAX cluster runningH OVMS 6.2 + patches and was connected to another room by FDDI. The remoteL node started rejecting the disk shadow messages as corrupt, not meeting someG check (forget the exact wording). The remote shadow set then became the.J master and offlined all the shadow disks on the failing node, whether thisH was intentional or just another power spike we not sure but we were most impressed. M@ The NT boxes also in the same room crashed on the first spike.  K The point of all this rambling, is that we have had the worst possible exitiI of a VAX and its Shadow Disk set, and the OS & Hardware handled the abusecL exactly as we would have wanted, and didn't cause any corruption whatsoever,K the only work we had to do after the flooding was replace the PSU's in both J the VAX & the DSSI Cabinet's, and reboot the node which shadowed its disks back in very happily   Regards    Andrew Robinsont -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] Sent: 21 May 2002 06:36  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg, Subject: Re: Volume shadowing and a disaster     Rob Young wrote:@ > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/fc_hbvs_dtc_wp.pdf  G Thanks for the link. However, this doesn't quite deal with the damage au@ failing node could potentially do to the shadow set as it fails.  L One of the recommendation in that document is that the backup node not mountI the shadow set so that the main node has full control over the shadow setg and]J a single FC path to it without worrying about backup node MSCP serving it.G However in this scenario, wouldn't there be even less "sanity" checks ?   I In a FC scenario, is there some specific protocol used to send disk drive_A commands ? Does the master node send MSCP commands and there is al MSCP-capableF controller in the disk array ? Or does the communication inside the FC containr direct SCSI commands ?  I Either way, will the backup node be advised if the master nodes starts toC sendH funky commands over the FC ? Or will its only notification of the master nodeH going nuts happen when the master node is take out of the cluster due to failure at the SCS link level ?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:36:38 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n, Subject: Re: Volume shadowing and a disaster, Message-ID: <3CEA3F54.FE230C11@videotron.ca>   Andrew Robinson wrote:J > OVMS 6.2 + patches and was connected to another room by FDDI. The remoteN > node started rejecting the disk shadow messages as corrupt, not meeting some$ > check (forget the exact wording).   K Was this host based volume shadowing ? (i.e. was it the logic inside of the>G good VMS node that detected corrupt messages coming from other node and  offlined the shadowset ?)   J When the drives are not served though MSCP and accessed directly through aM non-SCS path such as Fibre Channel, is it correct to state that the good nodeiA has no way to stop the failing node from playing with the drives?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:00:11 +0100 * From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>, Subject: RE: Volume shadowing and a disasterM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E753@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>:  B This was Host based Volume Shadowing - As for did VMS take out theF corrupting shadowset, I couldn't say, as I said, We didn't know if VMSK offlined the disks or yet another spike evenually took the disks out, maybe K someone else could answer that one. The room was running flooded for over 2wL hours - No one wanted to walk on the metal floor after seeing what was going on under it.   Regardsn Andrew   -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] Sent: 21 May 2002 13:37r To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , Subject: Re: Volume shadowing and a disaster     Andrew Robinson wrote:J > OVMS 6.2 + patches and was connected to another room by FDDI. The remoteI > node started rejecting the disk shadow messages as corrupt, not meetingM some$ > check (forget the exact wording).   K Was this host based volume shadowing ? (i.e. was it the logic inside of the_G good VMS node that detected corrupt messages coming from other node andc offlined the shadowset ?)c  J When the drives are not served though MSCP and accessed directly through aH non-SCS path such as Fibre Channel, is it correct to state that the good nodeA has no way to stop the failing node from playing with the drives?0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 07:37:22 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>- Subject: Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?T& Message-ID: <3CE9DD12.3090103@home.nl>   JF Mezei wrote:g  1 >There have been a lot of discussions about DCPS.u >n? >What is the mission/role of DCPS in terms of printing on VMS ?I >eI >Does DCPS actually provide the communications layer ? (TCPIP, serial are  >provided by VMS, right ?) e >0G No, DCPS does not provide the communications layer. That can be TCPIP, e serial, DECnet, LAT etc.   >y >oL >I know that DCPS provides conversion from various file types to postscript. > G Exactly, that is one the the functions. But it can also send PCL files  F to PCL printers. (may sound a bit silly, but PCL is not translated to  Postscript in this case).p   >m >yL >I know that DCPS initiates a dialogue with the printer to initialise it andH >get page count before and after a job to count number of pages printed. > < It will do two-way communication during the whole print job.   >i >gM >But what else does DCPS actually do that isn't provided by the vanilla queuei
 >manager ? >aI The queue manager does not do the actual printing. That is left to print hF symbionts. DCPS is one of those symbionts, just as LATSYM, the Telnet  symbiont and others.   >  >e? >As I understand it, DCPS doesn't do font management, correct ?- >oI Depends what you mean by this. I don't think that DCPS can load fonts to  H the hard disk of a printer for instance. But if I'm not mistaken, these B functions are now done by the web interfaces that are part of the  Postscript-3 specs.b   >iQ >DCPS doesn't handle ppd files to learn about a printer's capabilities, correct ?T >P6 Don't know, haven't had a look at the latest versions.   >e >yL >I am just trying to understand why DCPS would have to be "printer specific"O >instead of "we can support any postscript printer provided you setup the right ) >ppd file or library modules" philosophy.p >   G DCPS will print to non-supported Postscript printers most of the time. aF However since DCPS is two-way communication between printer and host, D DCPS has to understand all replies from the printer. That will most G likely be one of the reasons why there are supported and non-supported t	 printers.t   >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 02:42:12 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n- Subject: Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?e, Message-ID: <3CE9EC3D.1C2506B7@videotron.ca>   Dirk Munk wrote:> > It will do two-way communication during the whole print job.  M Will it ?  I can understand it probably sets an error handling routine beforeoM sending my postscript and then listens in case the postscript sends somethingyI back to the symbion to indicate an error But other than that, while it is=6 printing MY postcript what two-way comms would it do ?  J > The queue manager does not do the actual printing. That is left to printG > symbionts. DCPS is one of those symbionts, just as LATSYM, the Telnet  > symbiont and others.  J Ok, I just did a show dev/files looking for what the symbiont uses, and itM does have its own serial driver, appletalk driver and 2 others (I have an oldn
 version).     A > >As I understand it, DCPS doesn't do font management, correct ?  > > J > Depends what you mean by this. I don't think that DCPS can load fonts to* > the hard disk of a printer for instance.  K When you look at the Macintosh model for instance, the application will get L from the printer driver information about the selected printer, and can thenN generate postscript that is compatible with the target printer, due in part toK the PPD files which describe a printer's capabilities, as well as pomptablenP information (shuch as tray selection prompts and what commands to select trays))  N It is that layer that seems to be missing from VMS.  DCPS seems to be just theI symbiont that sends stuff to the printer and doesn't seem to be providingn6 services to help applications generate the postscript.    G > However since DCPS is two-way communication between printer and host,C7 > DCPS has to understand all replies from the printer. .  L Are those inquiry/responses hardcoded in the .EXE or are they in the library	 modules ?    ------------------------------   Date: 21 May 2002 01:17 CDTs' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)1- Subject: Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ? - Message-ID: <21MAY200201172282@gerg.tamu.edu>a  " Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes...@ }>As I understand it, DCPS doesn't do font management, correct ? }>J }Depends what you mean by this. I don't think that DCPS can load fonts to I }the hard disk of a printer for instance. But if I'm not mistaken, these tC }functions are now done by the web interfaces that are part of the   }Postscript-3 specs.  @ DCPS comes with FONT_DOWNLOADER.COM which will download fonts to a printer's hard drive.   F The functionality isn't built into the symbiont to do it "on the fly" 4 but it is available as someting you can do manually.  + I've never tried it, but I assume it works.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:34:12 +0200N9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> - Subject: Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?-' Message-ID: <3CEA68F4.17BCA36B@aaa.com>    Carl Perkins wrote:, > B > DCPS comes with FONT_DOWNLOADER.COM which will download fonts to > a printer's hard drive.a > G > The functionality isn't built into the symbiont to do it "on the fly"e6 > but it is available as someting you can do manually. >   F And, as all/most things VMS, anything doable manually can also be doneA automaticly in (e.g) batch. It's just to find out how to find outt) *automaticly* *when* it should be done...    Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:43:24 +0200, From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>- Subject: Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ? & Message-ID: <3CEA792C.2020209@home.nl>   JF Mezei wrote:c   >Dirk Munk wrote:  >l> >>It will do two-way communication during the whole print job. >> >rN >Will it ?  I can understand it probably sets an error handling routine beforeN >sending my postscript and then listens in case the postscript sends somethingJ >back to the symbion to indicate an error But other than that, while it is7 >printing MY postcript what two-way comms would it do ?2 >4J >>The queue manager does not do the actual printing. That is left to printG >>symbionts. DCPS is one of those symbionts, just as LATSYM, the Telnete >>symbiont and others. >> >eK >Ok, I just did a show dev/files looking for what the symbiont uses, and it N >does have its own serial driver, appletalk driver and 2 others (I have an old >version). h >iH I suppose these drivers run on top of the standard drivers. Most likely K they will be the layer between the symbiont and the actual transport layer.a   >  >- >-A >>>As I understand it, DCPS doesn't do font management, correct ?r >>>SJ >>Depends what you mean by this. I don't think that DCPS can load fonts to* >>the hard disk of a printer for instance. >> > L >When you look at the Macintosh model for instance, the application will getM >from the printer driver information about the selected printer, and can thenPO >generate postscript that is compatible with the target printer, due in part totL >the PPD files which describe a printer's capabilities, as well as pomptableQ >information (shuch as tray selection prompts and what commands to select trays))  >eO >It is that layer that seems to be missing from VMS.  DCPS seems to be just thewJ >symbiont that sends stuff to the printer and doesn't seem to be providing7 >services to help applications generate the postscript.d > G With the Mac it is a bit more complicated. Normally you will use Adobe fI Type Manager on a Mac. It will do the housekeeping for the printer fonts 3F and the screen fonts. When you send a print file to the printer, that B contains fonts that are not on the printer, the Mac will send the H printer font (Type-1 font) to the printer. The font list of the printer H is normally in the Postscript Printer Definition file, and that will be F used by the Apple printer driver. However the printer driver can also - inquire about which fonts are on the printer.s  G In case you have a print spooler, things become more complicated. In a cI typesetting environment you will have printers with a hard disk to store nH all fonts that are in use. However maintaining all PPD files of all the G connected Mac's is impossible of course.  In that case the spooler can  I inquire the printer, and publish the font list with the spooler (pseudo)   printer.  I By the way, some Mac applications use their own PPD files instead of the w standard PPD files.n   >d >  > G >>However since DCPS is two-way communication between printer and host, 7 >>DCPS has to understand all replies from the printer. e >> >oM >Are those inquiry/responses hardcoded in the .EXE or are they in the libraryl
 >modules ? > - Dunno, I suppose they are in library modules.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:58:48 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?o; Message-ID: <01KHZYCQ96UA984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>q  G > So right now I'd choose between Linux, Solaris, AIX, and IRIX, but I -C > can't recommend any one of those over any other.  You just get tof1 > choose between which problems you want to have.-  E In my experience, AIX is the best of the above, at least from a user  E point of view.  (Keep in mind that, in comparing unixes, you need to cA look at the user, programmer, and system-manager point of view.   H Similarities, strengths etc in one area might not translate to the same  in other areas.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:25:34 +0100s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?>) Message-ID: <3CEA74FE.27E40191@127.0.0.1>P   Phillip Helbig wrote:a > H > > So right now I'd choose between Linux, Solaris, AIX, and IRIX, but IE > > can't recommend any one of those over any other.  You just get to>3 > > choose between which problems you want to have.a > F > In my experience, AIX is the best of the above, at least from a userF > point of view.  (Keep in mind that, in comparing unixes, you need toA > look at the user, programmer, and system-manager point of view.rI > Similarities, strengths etc in one area might not translate to the samec > in other areas.)  F Which is bizarre. IBM are ready to junk AIX (which I believe is a moreA manageable UNIX) as soon as linux offers what AIX does. Oh, it'lle8 maintain it for those that want it, but interesting, no?   -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 07:58:46 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)lH Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?, was: Re: Stallards smoking gun!3 Message-ID: <Jc1qPTsn9Pdx@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  x In article <NWO5hGB5XIis@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > I > Since discussion of porting VMS systems to a Unix variant is becoming a0M > more frequent topic these days (and, depending on the way things go, a morerM > likely possibility), I would be interested in hearing, from a technical andiK > applications availability viewpoint, which Unix would be the best for VMSs > people to port to.  A    I've used a wide variety of UNIX and the one I found best as a.G    dedicated VMS user was last known as Tru64.  I don't believe porting E    key technologies from Tru64 to HP-UX is going to affect any of ther    problems I had with HP-UX.i  H    So right now I'd choose between Linux, Solaris, AIX, and IRIX, but I D    can't recommend any one of those over any other.  You just get to2    choose between which problems you want to have.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 05:55:00 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!t= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205210455.46cd2dea@posting.google.com>   q "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<_50E8.5445$Tj3.856761@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...a6 > "Elliott Roper" <elliott@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message. > news:140520020240284798%elliott@yrl.co.uk... >  > ...  > J > > Selling the virtues of VMS in this newsgroup is preaching to the choirK > > as has been noted by many others. Crying doom is counter-productive. WehJ > > can be realistic, but we need to act confident in the outside world ifI > > we want VMS to do better. I sure as hell want it to. It is my living.- > >rH > > I say let's go out and sell it. Unlike some other OS's I could name,' > > VMS won't let us down. Technically.R > >l > D > What you are advocating is morally questionable.  It boils down toM > convincing new customers that VMS is a solider long-term investment than its >   F all you have to do is look at the news/reports out there, I posted oneH recently where the gov't stated "install and patch os's don't work, onlyI ones built secure from the start" ... the only os that qualifies for thatfF is vms ... all they have to do is know what it can do and they will be: should ... should be pretty easy in todays environment ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:32:12 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!t) Message-ID: <3CEA4C5C.87152392@127.0.0.1>    Bill Todd wrote: > K > Really?  I think I communicate quite well, thank you - and certainly saidtM > *exactly* what I considered appropriate in the above case.  If people don'toL > like it, or even stop reading because of it, that's their problem:  peopleE > who choose to be uninformed are not the target of anything I write.o  H Yes, you write well with a strong and considered point of view(s), whichC is why I'm puzzled you feel it necessary to use language like that.M  iM > Of course, were I a politician I'd be more circumspect, since my goal would L > be less to communicate than to persuade.  A difference that, if indeed youH > are someone who had considered a career in the media, should be (and IN > suspect is, which says a lot about the aim of your response) obvious to you.  ' But of course, a gentleman to the last.s   -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:46:59 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!e) Message-ID: <3CEA4FD3.7819498B@127.0.0.1>C   Bob Ceculski wrote:o > s > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<_50E8.5445$Tj3.856761@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...-  F > > What you are advocating is morally questionable.  It boils down toO > > convincing new customers that VMS is a solider long-term investment than itA > >E > H > all you have to do is look at the news/reports out there, I posted oneJ > recently where the gov't stated "install and patch os's don't work, onlyK > ones built secure from the start" ... the only os that qualifies for thateH > is vms ... all they have to do is know what it can do and they will be< > should ... should be pretty easy in todays environment ...  C Unfortunately this isn't the case. Pile 'em high and sell 'um cheapdH mentality of an item that has a commodity feel to it, even throwaway, is5 difficult to defend to almost anything, not just VMS.   B It can be uphill work to convince the modern IT manager that theirF systems are an investment, not a stopgap. This convincing does have toH happen at all levels, the company, what the company stands for, what its: products do for what the company wants to be perceived as.  H What the products actually do can be a very small part of it. Sorry Bob,F but I don't think many investment decision makers read this newsgroup,E even if they did I wouldn't imagine they'd have a high opinion of thetC goings on. We see a lot of passion here, but it rarely involves the  exchange of money.   -- C( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 03:17:39 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>0+ Subject: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?:+ Message-ID: <3CE9F489.5C523D4@videotron.ca>g  L Is there a reason why WHOIS isn't provided as part of the TCPIP services for VMS ? (5.0)   T It came with CMUIP, so I have to wonder why it wouldn't be part of te TCPIP package.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:47:14 GMT 0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>/ Subject: Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ? @ Message-ID: <SApG8.160035$o66.474047@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  1 A quick search in altavista took me to this site:p* http://www.netsol.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois.  J There hasn't been any substantial call for whois and if there were I wouldE be curious why they don't use the web for getting the info they need.I   Matt.t   --= -------------------------------------------------------------t OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Company  Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAn= -------------------------------------------------------------S    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3CE9F489.5C523D4@videotron.ca...hJ > Is there a reason why WHOIS isn't provided as part of the TCPIP services foro
 > VMS ? (5.0)T >,G > It came with CMUIP, so I have to wonder why it wouldn't be part of teo TCPIP package.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 11:46:50 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>i/ Subject: Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?n6 Message-ID: <20020521114650.10899.qmail@gacracker.org>  F On Tue, 21 May 2002, "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> wrote:2 >A quick search in altavista took me to this site:+ >http://www.netsol.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois.n > K >There hasn't been any substantial call for whois and if there were I wouldsF >be curious why they don't use the web for getting the info they need.  K WHOIS is included in Multinet, and I've also got a CGI interface to that on 	 VMSbox...n  ' http://vmsbox.cjb.net/cgiplus-bin/whoist  D For a really complete set of online network lookup and trace tools I' recommend visiting http://www.cotse.coms     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:39:49 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t/ Subject: Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?C, Message-ID: <3CEA4013.C7892FBD@videotron.ca>   Matt Muggeridge wrote:L > There hasn't been any substantial call for whois and if there were I wouldG > be curious why they don't use the web for getting the info they need.e  H It is just a standard internet tool that a good TCPIP stack should have.  J I would like to automate processing of my syslog which contains connectionS attempts and do statistics of where these attempts come from (by ISP for instance).l  J I hate HTTP for this since it is such a wates to have to parse the HTML to extract a few tidbits of text.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:23:32 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a/ Subject: RE: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?s9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEHBFAAA.tom@kednos.com>a  ? You can get a copy at http://www.pottsoft.com/home/pds/pds.htmlt   >-----Original Message-----o5 >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]u$ >Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:40 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0 >Subject: Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ? >e >d >Matt Muggeridge wrote:eA >> There hasn't been any substantial call for whois and if there n
 >were I wouldPH >> be curious why they don't use the web for getting the info they need. >mI >It is just a standard internet tool that a good TCPIP stack should have.  >tK >I would like to automate processing of my syslog which contains connection B >attempts and do statistics of where these attempts come from (by  >ISP for instance).e >aK >I hate HTTP for this since it is such a wates to have to parse the HTML tom >extract a few tidbits of text.t >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.r; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >- --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.280 ************************