1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 22 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 281       Contents:2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?+ Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question  ANN: MGPCX update available & Bob the Gob huts my killfile (overdue)P Re: CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyo3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix  Re: Changing the size of text  Re: Changing the size of text & Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMSJ Re: DEC/CPQ Ada on IA64: Yes or No ?, was: Re: "Best" programming languageJ RE: DEC/CPQ Ada on IA64: Yes or No ?, was: Re: "Best" programming language* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long) Re: Diskeeper Usage ( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not? Re: eBay Redux Re: eBay Redux RE: End of an era.- Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning  Re: FTP mget on latest files ?> HP doesn't act positively towards VMS any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. RE: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC, Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?, Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?, Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported? mkisofs for Vax  RE: mkisofs for Vax D Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesC Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts) C Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts)  Re: OpenVMS wizardB Re: Other HP printers and USB (was: Newest version of DCPS and our& Re: Please help: Hobbes failed to boot& Re: Please help: Hobbes failed to boot! Re: selective failure, MX and DNS ! Re: selective failure, MX and DNS / Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??  Some DECNET help please!!  Re: Some DECNET help please!!  Re: Some DECNET help please!!  Re: Some DECNET help please!!  Re: Some DECNET help please!!  Re: Some DECNET help please!!  Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: System manager available Re: System manager availableJ TCPIP 5.3 (was: RE: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse), Re: TCPIP$PRINTCAP.DAT/UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT file Re: Unix on VaxStation 4000 90A ? Vision vs. incompetence:  another bit of historical perspective $ Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?$ Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?. Where are the files for the debugger PC client2 Re: Where are the files for the debugger PC client Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?& Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?& Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ? Re: Worth a read  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:03:59 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 1 Message-ID: <3ceac3b6.202313841@news.process.com>   M On 21 May 2002 08:12:57 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   L >> One advantage BLISS has is that it is free now.  The main disadvantage isM >> that there aren't BLISS compilers for other platforms (or, rather, they've  >> never been released),   > F >   Sure they have. BLISS-10 and BLISS-16 were both released.  But youF >   have to find find a KL-10 emulator to run them on.  (IIRC the VAX ? >   version of the BLISS-16 cross compiler was never released).  > H True.  I was thinking about the BLISS for UNIX, OSF, WNT, etc, compilers8 that are apparently alive somewhere inside DEC.  Er, HP.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 00:18:55 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? H Message-ID: <PtBG8.64374$ah_.28044@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  D Okay, I'll be a real pain and jump in with two of my non-traditional
 favorites:  K 1) APL, though in all fairness I'm not even sure that it is still available L on VMS. Cognos bought what used to be STSC and latter known as APL2000. They7 had a mighty fine APL interpreter at one point in time.   A DEC had a pretty decent APL interpreter at one point in time too.     F 2) TOOL - an OO language that's part of the UDS product from Sun (yes,F there's that nasty word). UDS used to be known as Forte 4GL from ForteG Software. Highly productive (about 4-8x more productive than Java in my K experience), and portable with the UDS product to unix, OS390, VMS, and Win H NT/2000. TOOL today is where J2EE may get to in 5-6 years. Is compilable into C++  I Provides n-tier capabilities, software replication, failover, and a whole E lot more. Use it on the server side, with Java or web clients. Highly  robust. K http://wwws.sun.com/software/products/unified_devsrvr/home_unified_dev.html         4 "Shawn Joseph" <sdk_joseph@msn.com> wrote in message7 news:f897700f.0205172334.2bdead20@posting.google.com... H > I have been working with VMS 7.2-1 for just over a year now and wantedE > to start getting into some entry level programming.  I have written H > many simply DCL procedures and I am currently reading/applying WritingF > Real Programs in DCL, 2nd edition.  I have no programming experienceG > but was looking to start out to help improve my skills and net worth.  > I have a few questions.  > G > What is the best programming language for a newbie on VMS and why?  I H > know each language has it's own highlights, but I don't know what theyC > are.  Since I don't know a lot about these languages I guess I am G > looking for pro's and con's on each, what people would recommend as a F > best return on investment in time and money and what is likely to beG > in demand/supported for the forseeable future.  I will most likely be B > learning it all through self study as I'm sure many others have. > E > It sounds like there are several languages supported on VMS.  Would H > anyone care to rank the top 5 in order of your own opinion and why you > feel that way? > C > How would you rank the languages in order of difficulty to learn?  > F > Is there one language that can do "most" or everything one needs?  I3 > know I am setting myself up with this question :)  > F > If not, is there a logical order the languages should be studied and
 > applied? > H > What is the difference between C, C++ and Compaq C and Compaq C++, and > C/C++ for that matter? > G > Most of the references I have seen thus far for C have been for Unix, < > are there resources out there for programming in C on VMS? > F > I am told that Java runs on VMS and is even more portable than C butD > requires additional overhead as it requires a runtime environment. > Any thoughts on this?  > H > I am looking for something long range I can pick up and something thatE > is going to be portable to other Operating systems.  I think DCL is E > pretty slick but is limited to VMS and from what I am told has many ; > limitations when compared to other programming languages.  > A > I was considering C as I'm told it can be run on many operating  > systems and is very powerful.  > F > Any comments in this area would be greatly appreciated.  I have beenH > to Compaq's website, but all the different choices kind of overwhelmedH > me.  I was hoping to get a "best in class" to narrow it down so that IE > can do some more research and start learning a language in the near 	 > future.  > 
 > Regards,, > Shawn Joseph, up and coming System Manager   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 04:28:44 GMT 3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 5 Message-ID: <3CEB1E85.8A126B45@DigitalSynergyInc.com>   6 "Only a dog barks in one language" (Hungarian proverb)  O Each language has its merits and demerits. Only the French believe there is one  "best" language.  > If you  really want to be a proficient programmer, learn many.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:25:40 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)4 Subject: Re: A tape drive, a cluster, and a question. Message-ID: <aceag4$jp5$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes in article <3CEA291A.B3A823D1@127.0.0.1> dated Tue, 21 May 2002 12:01:46 +0100:  >manrubble wrote: D >> I installed a TZ87 SCSI tape drive on the boot node of a two node  D >Note that the speed of the tape drive will drop to the interconnect) >speed, I assume 10 MB LAN, so, not fast!    10 Mb/s = 1.25 MB/s   I Coicidentally, that's the speed of a TZ87 running with compression turned I off.  If you turn on compression, the speed might double, but not if your  interconnect is single 10baseT.   H Current DLT hardware is somewhat faster -- 6 MB/s.  Still less than fast	 ethernet.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 05:06:37 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) $ Subject: ANN: MGPCX update available1 Message-ID: <3ceb2634.227527597@news.process.com>   ) MGPCX V2.2 is now available for download.   N MGPCX lets you read and write MS-DOS floppies from VMS.  This version includesO a new qualifier, /PRESERVE_DATE, on the READ and WRITE commands to preserve the # file creation date during the copy.   M One user has shown me a new use for MGPCX: he uses it to transfer images from . his digital camera's floppy to his VMS system.  1 You can find MGPCX V2.2 using the following URLs:    http://www.process.com/openvms/   5 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/mgpcx.zip : http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/mgpcx.zip1 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/mgpcx.zip 6 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/mgpcx.zip  ) and on the other mirrors within 24 hours.    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 02 05:41:28 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) / Subject: Bob the Gob huts my killfile (overdue) ) Message-ID: <XVeCbi2I7nxi@elias.decus.ch>    > I > you can't really blame the ucx team as their hands have been tied since G > Palmer, and they are trying to play catchup ... that's why until they J > do you should be using TCPware or Multinet, although I would use TCPwareJ > permanently and it is the only IP stack for VMS based on the VMS kernel,  > and therefore runs crisper ...  * Long overdue. You finally hit my killfile. __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:42:33 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Y Subject: Re: CA sells MANMAN (Was Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyo & Message-ID: <3CEAFADE.D530B81@fsi.net>   Alan Greig wrote:  > C > On Mon, 20 May 2002 21:35:37 GMT, lbohan@spamless..dbc.com wrote:  > F > >On Mon, 20 May 2002 11:25:02 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>	 > >wrote:  > > J > >>CA have just sold a division which markets and supports MANMAN on VMS.D > >>Just a few months after assuring us that it was still strategic. > > @ > >I missed hearing/reading about this;  Who did CA sell it to ? > D > Only heard about it a month after it happened myself. CAMUS EuropeD > (MANMAN/MK user group) comes up next month and CAMUS USA is takingG > place at the moment. Hopefully more info will emerge. Would have gone C > to CAMUS US had I known a few days earlier but should be at CAMUS G > Europe (UK). I don;t know anything about SSA Technologies. Anyone any  > knowledge of them?  H No - and it looks like I never will. Their website just informed me that it doesn't support my browser.  ! Another batch of clueless idiots.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:04:37 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' UnixA Message-ID: <FDyG8.96327$fU2.9643018@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   3 "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message $ news:3CEA16CA.F8F24CD4@kgcc.co.uk... > Bill Todd wrote:   ...   K > > Not sure that the use of extents makes any real difference here:  after  all,H > > several Unix file systems are extent-based (XFS, VxFS, I think JFS). > >  >  > HP's JFS is VxFS BTW.   K The only use of 'JFS' I was aware of was AIX's (and that's what most people K seem to think of when that TLA is used).  I'll try to keep HP's use in mind  henceforth.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 02:02:51 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: Changing the size of text& Message-ID: <3CEAFF9E.9A920D4@fsi.net>   Krish wrote: >  > Hello, > B > I wrote the following program to create a banner when I log into > my system. >  > $ esc5m = "$[1m" > $ esc5m[0,8] = 27  > $ esc1m = "$[5m" > $ esc1m[0,8] = 27  > $ esc0m = "$[0m" > $ esc0m[0,8] = 27  > $ double_high_top = "$#3"  > $ double_high_top[0,8] = 27  > $ double_high_bottom = "$#4"  > $ double_high_bottom[0,8] = 27 > $ double_wide = "$#6"  > $ double_wide[0,8] = 27  > $ text = "COOL" A > $ write sys$output esc5m + text + double_wide + double_high_top 9 > $ write sys$output esc5m + text + esc0m + double_wide +  > double_high_bottom > $exit  > H > With this my text appeared reasonable big and with the blink. But I am > not G > satisfied with its size. I want it really huge. How can I acheive it. H > double_high_top, double_high_bottom and double_wide increased the textH > size by a fixed dimension. But to make it much bigger that what I have; > now, what should I do. Any help will be much appreciated.   E Sorry, guy, double-high, double-wide is as big as it gets. Outside of G that, you'll be playing games with the fonts sizes in specific terminal F programs, and that is likely something you don't want to get into. I'm not even sure it's possible.  G I suppose, however, some downloadable font magic might do the trick, if  you really wanna go that route.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:23:32 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> & Subject: Re: Changing the size of text, Message-ID: <3CEB0116.7BD34250@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:< > Sorry, guy, double-high, double-wide is as big as it gets.    J With something such as FMS, you can "draw" bigger letters, either with theM line drawing characters or by using reverse-video to draw it, and then export L it to VT200 compatible sequences that you then send during the SYS$ANNOUNCE.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 12:03:54 -0700+ From: garywill@eircom.net (Gary Williamson) / Subject: Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMS = Message-ID: <f0a0960f.0205211103.1c2293c9@posting.google.com>   D We have been having perodic TCP/IP connectivity problems - posted toA this forum yesterday "TCP/IP intermittent dropping of connection"     F We have a VMS cluster running OpenVMS V7.2-2 on Alpha V7.2 on MicroVAXB and Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 3    COILL - AlphaServer 2100 4/200   OAK - AlphaServer 1000 4/266   GIS - MicroVAX 3100-90    D We have been experiencing intermittent TCP/IP connectivity dropout. C Several times a day TCP/IP connectivity will be lost between a VMS WD server and one or more Windows 2000 or VMS or Unix servers. This is F observable by request timeouts when pinging the VMS server from these @ other servers. The problem may only last a few minutes and then = resolve itself or it may require a stop and start of TCP/IP. u    ^ lbohan@spamless..dbc.com wrote in message news:<cspieu0tg3gg5eipdin0j7scqg1k9ig22s@4ax.com>... > < > We saw a problem, early April, seemingly related to ECO3, ; > that went away, with rolling back to TCPIP 5.1 + ECO2.   e > (axp v7.3 + current eco's) > 6 > Tried this back && forth, several times to convince % > myself that it was related to ECO3.a > 7 > The problem being sporadic reception (transmission?) :* > of low-bandwidth  udp multicast streams. > : > I didn't report it to the CSC, figuring I would have to , > look at, and capture sniffer traces of the2 > low-bandwidth streams, and IGMP traffic first.   >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:36:18 GMTT0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>S Subject: Re: DEC/CPQ Ada on IA64: Yes or No ?, was: Re: "Best" programming languagec; Message-ID: <210520021430547684%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>t  A In article <oHEQz3PiK8Fo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Simon ClubleyD5 <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:   I > In article <3CE921DD.9A61142F@hp.com>, Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>a	 > writes:C > > D > >   "There are specific languages and dialects of languages which I > >    Compaq does not plan to make available for the Itanium platform. PK > >    Compaq will provide an Ada 95 compiler on the Itanium architecture cI > >    but will not port the existing Compaq Ada 83. Compaq has no plans e > >    to make PL/1 available."  > > P > > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OpenVMS_IPF_PORTING_WP.pdf > 2 > Is DEC Ada going to be available on IPF or not ?  E The information from Joshua Cope is correct, save the substitution of  "HP" for "Compaq".   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringw   Hewlett-Packard Companya   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:15:25 -0700l# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> S Subject: RE: DEC/CPQ Ada on IA64: Yes or No ?, was: Re: "Best" programming languageP9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEIGFAAA.tom@kednos.com>p  B It may be correct, but certainly misleading since WE have plans toA make PL/I  (not PL/1)  available.  We have no plans to make OS400 C available on IPF, is also a true statement, but equally misleading.m   >-----Original Message-----s8 >From: Paul Anderson [mailto:paul.r.anderson@compaq.com]% >Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:36 AM. >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com? >Subject: Re: DEC/CPQ Ada on IA64: Yes or No ?, was: Re: "Best"a >programming languaget >  > B >In article <oHEQz3PiK8Fo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Simon Clubley6 ><clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote: >iJ >> In article <3CE921DD.9A61142F@hp.com>, Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>
 >> writes: >> >D >> >   "There are specific languages and dialects of languages whichI >> >    Compaq does not plan to make available for the Itanium platform.-K >> >    Compaq will provide an Ada 95 compiler on the Itanium architecturetI >> >    but will not port the existing Compaq Ada 83. Compaq has no plansa  >> >    to make PL/1 available." >> > >> >D >http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OpenVMS_IPF_PORTI
 >NG_WP.pdf >>3 >> Is DEC Ada going to be available on IPF or not ?s > F >The information from Joshua Cope is correct, save the substitution of >"HP" for "Compaq".r >a >Paul( >  >--r > Paul Andersonv >  OpenVMS Engineering >  Hewlett-Packard Company >a >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.a; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A@ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >  ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:01:57 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)-, Message-ID: <3CEAC3D2.D61D61F4@videotron.ca>   Fred Zwarts wrote:O > comparable to those "Loader" MOP options. This requires quite some changes ine< > bootp and tftp and the interaction between tftp and bootp.  K But won't IA64 boxes send boot loader requests using some proprietary InteltL protocol ? If they provide server support for such protocol on VMS-Alpha andD VMS-VAX then a vax could serve as a boot node for the slow IA64 box.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:21:17 GMTe. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long) 2 Message-ID: <xLzG8.6924$ze7.101604@news.chello.at>  c In article <8805EBz15toW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:uX >In article <18MAY200202545203@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: >> uH >> Cross architecture boots have always been unsupported. Doable? Sure -J >> just be careful about what directory structure the thing boots from and- >> it *should* work. But it is not supported.o >o: >   Guess again.  From the OpenVMS Cluster SPD (29.78.20): > H >      "All OpenVMS Cluster systens have the following software features >      in common:  > 
 >      ... ><C >      "Cross-architecture satellite booting permist VAX boot nodes2H >      to provide boot services to Alpha satellites and Alpha boot nodes2 >      to provide boot services to VAX satellies." >e. >   That sure doesn't sound unsupported to me.  & It depends on what you call supported.  < How do you setup a Alpha boot node to boot a VAX satellite ?  N You do need a VAX directly connected to the VAX system disk (=> VAX boot node); to setup this system disk (SYSxx roots, MOP database, ...).hO There is still no supported method to use a Alpha setting up a VAX system disk.   E So, after the VAX system disk is correctly set up, you can set up thecG MOP database on the Alpha _by hand_ to boot the VAX satellite from thisrH (served by the Alpha boot node to the cluster) VAX system disk. And this% works. We do this since a decade now.i   And vice versa, of course.  @ I don't call this SUPPORTED, I call this DOABLE, just like Carl.  ; OTOH, we can call Cross Architecture boot is SUPPORTED, but F Cross Architecture Configuration is NOT SUPPORTED, but I would tend toJ say, the Configuration is part of the whole boot procedure. => UNSUPPORTED     -Peter  G PS: With the OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 Upgrade, I lost this cross architecture I boot ability and I didn't find out why (You may remember my postings someII months ago). It ended with the move of the VAX system disk from the AlphaeF Bootserver to the only VAX satellite (which had to happen also for theM OpenVMS VAX V7.3 upgrade, just like the upgrades before, but now had to stay)+ --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------   Date: 21 May 2002 21:47 CDTt' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)n3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)i- Message-ID: <21MAY200221472125@gerg.tamu.edu>o  ) "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> writes...h= }"Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message =i. }news:8805EBz15toW@eisner.encompasserve.org...K }> In article <18MAY200202545203@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl =s }Perkins) writes:l }> >=20bJ }> > Cross architecture boots have always been unsupported. Doable? Sure = }-J }> > just be careful about what directory structure the thing boots from = }and/ }> > it *should* work. But it is not supported.  }>=20w< }>    Guess again.  From the OpenVMS Cluster SPD (29.78.20): }>=20 C }>       "All OpenVMS Cluster systens have the following software =u	 }features  }>       in common:o }>=20p }>       ... }>=20nE }>       "Cross-architecture satellite booting permist VAX boot nodes4F }>       to provide boot services to Alpha satellites and Alpha boot = }nodes4 }>       to provide boot services to VAX satellies." }>=2010 }>    That sure doesn't sound unsupported to me. }>=20  } G }And we use it quite a lot. We have three boot servers, 2 VAX, 1 Alpha,rH }serving a common set of DSSI disks, among which the Alpha and the VAX = }system H }disks. We boot VAX satellites even if the VAX servers are down and we = }boota3 }Alpha satellites even if the Alpha server is down.i }    Interesting.  K I wondered if this was new, or at least newer than the version I used to beDL running. Upon checking, it isn't - the documentation that came with VMS V6.1F (the latest version I was running until about a year ago) mentions it.  G It turns out that cross architecture booting is supported, but not fromtL a single system disk. You have to have a separate disk for each architectureF for it to be supported. I guess that was what confused me - on severalH occasions people have asked about doing cross architecture from a singleF disk (and at least partially shared directory structure) here, only toJ receive the "unsupported but it should work if you are very, very careful" type reply for that case.-   Oops.   G Anyhow, since the boot server part of the operation is done in software.H it should still be possible. The console firmware of the new IPF systemsE knows only its new boot protocol, but what the console's capabilitiesrF are is independant of what protocols VMS can use to serve out a systemI disk once it is up and running. The communication is between the firmware2L of the client and VMS's networking software, not from firmware to firmware.   I So the question is not "will the new method be added to the VAX and Alpha H console firmware", but rather "which protocols will be supported by each* version of the OS to serve a system disk?"  I Since the Alpha and IPF versions are supposed to have common source code,sI I don't see why they would throw out the MOP server when building IPF VMS/E or throw out the new method when building Alpha VMS. But they may notrJ bother to add the new method to VAX VMS. If it is the case that the commonH code for the new method is on both IPF and Alpha but not VAX and the IPFE "inherits" the MOP server code from the Alpha's source code, then theuF only cross architecture booting that would not work would be for a VAXG to serve the system disk to an IPF system - everything else would work.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:11:32 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)b, Message-ID: <3CEB2882.1DA7DB60@videotron.ca>   Carl Perkins wrote:hK > So the question is not "will the new method be added to the VAX and Alpha J > console firmware", but rather "which protocols will be supported by each, > version of the OS to serve a system disk?"  J I have yet to see a statement from HP about VAX-VMS. But I would hope thatI they would consider having each variant of VMS capable of supporting bootoM requests from each variant. They keep saying "VMS is VMS is VMS" so it should-J not be so difficult to port the application that supports the reception of. boot requests in Intel's proprietary protocol.  L I think that the cross-boot will be very useful during the transition periodL when a few IA64s small systems boot off some main server. Eventually, if VMSM survives that long, customers will have IA64 as main systems with a few vaxesaF and alphas left to run those applications not ported/portable to IA64.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 02 05:49:04 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)i Subject: Re: Diskeeper Usage) Message-ID: <Sd3W3zp2KpIM@elias.decus.ch>u  K In article <3CE94C86.50709@tgsmc.com>, Brad Hughes <brad@tgsmc.com> writes:p > Roy Omond wrote: >  > [...]NI >> I'm genuinely curious to know why.  Can you expand a bit on why OracletK >> should care if a file is moved (and made more contiguous) ?  I'd presumeaF >> that the file was not open at the time (otherwise DFO wouldn't have >> touched it).g >  > L > ISTR (fuzzily) that Ingres bypassed RMS and instead manipulated raw blocksH > directly;  if Oracle does that as well I can see how it would be upset > if the blocks get moved. > I Not a clue about Ingres, but I can report that I have been running DFO ony0 Oracle disks for over 4 years, without problems.  N I cannot however address the original question which was to do with Diskeeper. Diskeeper is not DFO.M __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandd   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:08:28 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>c1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not? ; Message-ID: <01KI02VIDIGS96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  E > (His basic point was that digital media were terrific for long-termr? > storage but that paper seems to be the best thing for workingt > documents.)   I Interesting.  In many ways, I, and I'm sure others as well, use files on  E hard disk for temporary stuff and at the end of the day (or week, or f@ year or whatever) print out the final, important stuff on paper!   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:33:34 +0000 (UTC):, From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not? . Message-ID: <ace3tu$jh4$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes in article <00A0E436.A5B04E9A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> dated Tue, 21 May 2002 16:59:23 GMT:w >In article <20020521113304.10577.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:, >>L >>Lat time I was in Edinburgh ATC (couple of years ago), they still used allH >>those cardboard strips. Admittedly this was the backup system, but forM >>something like ATC, you need several fallbacks in case the computers becomep >>unavailable. >sO >There was a really interesting article by Malcolm Gladwell in _The New Yorker_eN >fairly recently - or at least I read it fairly recently; I'm way behind on myO >periodicals - about the continued utility of paper.  (His basic point was thathM >digital media were terrific for long-term storage but that paper seems to be J >the best thing for working documents.)  He talks about studies that show H >that the cardboard strips are an excellent cognitive match for the way & >air traffic controllers have to work.  H It's true.  From 1995-2002 Mitre ran an ATC research system which (amongK other things) replaced the paper flight strips in certain ATC facilities iniK the US.  We put the aircraft on a map in one window so the controller couldiI see where they were in relation to each other, but most of them prefer toyG work from the aircraft list window and look at the map only for certain:	 things.  w  ! This was done on VMS, by the way.-  K Now that the system is in production, a .com has ported it to Unix (SolarisfL I think).  It's installed in most of the eastern part of the country now.  I; think the rest of the country is still using flight strips.r  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 13:18:28 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: eBay Reduxq3 Message-ID: <oGZzX6BO4TlX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   v In article <20020521155956.16612.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:8 > On Tue, 21 May 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy6 > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote: >  > <snip> > A >>I have snipped the rest of the exchange to save you looking any" >>7 >>more idiotic, its a wednesday and the sun is shining.M > A > Eh? Some bizarre timezone you're in Andrew. Today is *Tuesday*.T >   < 	Andrew doesn't make mistakes , he just spins things.  It is? 	Wednesday somewhere right now, Andrew never said he was there.r   				Rob0   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 13:33:30 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: eBay ReduxS3 Message-ID: <zSbborJcG3KE@eisner.encompasserve.org>x   In article <acdnm8$7ts$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: >  >> In article <acdgr5$5u9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:c >> . >>   >>>s7 >>>Do you recall why I started posting to this group ??  >>>w< >>>Your FUD over Sun's involvment in eBay, remember what the' >>>outcome was, you had made it all up.c >>>f >>>  >> a >> 	"I made it all up?"  e >> aD >> 	That is not true at all.  Pick a thread any thread and prove it.? >> 	Outcome?  Sure, I know the outcome.  I know the outcome for E >> 	Verisign and others.  Shall we start naming former Sun customers?, >> c >  > ; > I quote from your response "I made a cut and paste error"i > A > Sorry Rob you claimed it was a Sun HW problem that caused eBays0 > 22 hour outage, it wasn'tA >    	That is right, admitted later.u  C > You then tried to claim it was Solaris corrupting data, it wasn'tg  D 	The PC Week author claimed that.  I never saw a retraction printed.1 	Who is to say it wasn't?  Certainly not PC Week.r  D > You then claimed that the previous mistakes you had made were down: > to an inability on your part to cut and paste correctly.   	Okay.   >  >  > @ >> 	Here, maybe 3 years later you can do a better job responding >> 	to this: >>   >>  - >> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) 4 >> Subject: Re: At eBay, we're the BLOT in "dot.com" >> Date: 1999/06/22I' >> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vmso >> t >> eO >> In article <376E65B3.F4964860@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy % >> <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:n >> i >>>Rob Young wrote:P >>>T >>>P >>   >>  F >>>>        With that said, he won't touch this one.  The BEST spin heN >>>>        can put on this is that ETrade was down .. and they weren't reallyL >>>>        down, just experienced a few hours of "extreme slowness" (IIRC). >>>> >>>>K >>>I am not even going to try. Your ideas as to the cause of eBays problemseK >>>seem to be pure speculation and eBay are distancing themselves from your  >>>point of view.l >>>g) >>>They do however continue to buy Sun's.A >>>@ >>>s >> p= >> 	Yeah, about twice as many as they need... "just in case."l >> o< >> 	I hope EBay turns into a case study on how not to run a = >> 	high availability site.  Conversely, perhaps the American H >> 	Stock Exchange for VMS and the New York Stock Exchange for MVS (yes,= >> 	they have had their minor moment) will be examples of how6K >> 	to run high availability sites.  Here, bag the speculation.  Seems the o( >> 	folks at PCWeek dug out the problem: >>  A >> http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,407387,00.htmlu >>  O >>    Technicians traced the main cause of the outage to a problem with the SunDK >> Solaris operating system, which overwrote files and corrupted the Oracle I >> database. The database, Version 7.3.2.2, recognized a data block in anpO >> incorrect format, and that caused the main hardware--a Sun E10000 server--tol# >> crash. The problem is fixed now.tI >>    More troubling than the technical glitches was the apparent lack of M >> precautions taken by EBay to prevent problems or to fix them more quickly..P >>    First, EBay had not upgraded the system with an available Solaris patch to >> fix the overwriting error.IQ >>    "Had the patch been there, EBay more than likely wouldn't have experienced oR >> the outage," said Anil Gadre, vice president of marketing for computer systems   >> at Sun, in Menlo Park, Calif.J >>   The patch was available for several months for downloading from Sun'sK >> Web site, although Sun officials acknowledged they should have been more9) >> proactive in implementing it for EBay.i >> i >  > B > And its great that you posted this because it wasn't what causedE > the outage. This is the version of events you origionally broadcast2G > that proved to be incorrect and which you ended up having to dissown.  >   ; 	It was PC week's perspective and yes, that is the way they:9 	saw it and heard it.  The author certainly didn't revealC	 	sources.4  A > It wasn't a Solaris patch it was a patch to a 3rd party productM@ > It wasn't an Oracle corruption, it was the unpatched 3rd party
 > product.   	Right.t   > @ > This was all covered at the time and it is both remarkable andE > wonderfull that you have chosen to repeat the incorrect allegations E > you made the first time arround and which if you remember correctly ! > you ended up having to dissown.  >   = 	That was that set of downtimes.  But as we know later a moree& 	recent set of downtimes went like so:  R http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=p67fyhEDF7rk%40eisner.decus.org&output=gplain  * From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Newsgroups: comp.os.vmss1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform  Date: 6 Nov 2000 13:08:33 -05002  9 In article <3A06DFE3.3AAC22B@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrisone" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:   > N >>         But back to your FUD you introduced here.  You raise the PittsburghJ >>         project and ignoring the facts it is under construction attempt >>         to equate the two.  >> t > ? > But as you know it isn't FUD is it Rob, the Pittsburg System yB > isn't in production is it. Had my statement included allegations= > like your did as to the reasons why it isn't in production r= > then you could have accused me of FUDDING, but I didn't dids > I. >  > So nice try, no FUD. >   @ 	[5/21/02 - Pittsburgh is now number two on the top500.  This of? 	course was a snapshot in time.  We knew they wouldn't have anyr@ 	major issues there.  They weren't working with Sun kit like the 	Aussies were.]     * >> http://www.psc.edu/machines/tcs/status/ >> A >>         Questions to you: >> dJ >>                 1)  Do you think the Pittsburgh site will have problems3 >>                         with acceptance testing?f >> h> > Why not on the basis of your FUD I would be quite justified = > in saying, of course they will have difficulties. But this t3 > would be FUD wouldn't it, just like your posting.V >   / 	[5/21/02 - Nary a mention of any difficulties.a@ 	http://www.psc.edu/publicinfo/news/2001/terascale-10-01-01.htmlB 	If there were, certainly didn't make the press like the Aussies!]   > K >>                 2)  Do you think Sun has a snow ball's chance in hell ofR? >>                         winning the second go round at APAC?h< >>                         http://nf.apac.edu.au/facilities/ >> V7 > More FUD, I don't know and neither do you, again all o1 > you are trying to do is get something to stick.b >   ; 	I'm attempting to solicit your opinion.  Something you canX7 	hang out here so we can look at it 8 or 12 months downs6 	the road.  Do you "think" Sun has a chance of winning& 	the APAC bid *again*?   I say no way.  < 	[5/21/02 - Andrew had little to say here.  Why?  Because he> 	probably knew for a fact the APAC bid would not go their way.< 	When push comes to shove and you attempt to pin Andrew down/ 	on anything, as we know he quietly goes away.]-   > @ >> > Rob you are really grasping at straws, "a little bird tells2 >> > me" come on even by your standards this poor. >> > >>  I >>         Your opinion.  It is either a good source or a bad source.  ItVL >>         is either accurate or it isn't.  Tell us your view.  We have comeH >>         to know your opinion here.  Of course, as others point out weL >>         know to look real hard at EXACTLY opposite of what you are saying. >>         as being more in-line with reality. >> n? > I don't know if its accurate or not, but then neither do you  > > do you. It isn't up to me to prove or disprove the validity ! > of your source, its up to you.   > C > At the moment all you appear to be doing is relaying every little2? > snippet, half truth, rumour in the hope that some of the mud w
 > will stick.e >   9 	Ahh... nice try.  The Forbes article does more to dispel"7 	the Nameless Faceless masses that are struggling alonge6 	with the ecahce problem.  Several telecoms, Verisign.7 	You are quite good at trimming and ignoring the Forbesi< 	article.  You would have us believe there are "half truths"? 	and "rumors" in there wouldn't you.  How about digesting this:v  6 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_2.html  L "At BellSouth Technology Service Sun has already replaced modules on serversM that crashed, says Richard Liddell, a BellSouth vice president. But a dot-comlJ in San Francisco has been waiting weeks for a repair. It bought a Sun 6500O server to run the database that is core to its business. The server crashed andhL rebooted four times over a few months.	"It's ridiculous. I've got a $300,000J server that doesn't work.The thing should be bulletproof," says the firm's president."c  > 	You are adept at ferretting out half truths and rumors.  Show/ 	us the rumor and half truth in that paragraph.u   	Or better yet:p  4 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a.html  N "Adding to the mystery is Sun's own reticence.It has never issued a warning toF its customers or disclosed the flaw to new buyers. For months Sun toldM customers seeking a repair that they must sign a legal agreement promising tofN keep it secret. Many still don't dare speak out. Even now Sun hasn't published9 on its main Web site an official explanation of the bug."o  > 	Tell us the half truth in that paragraph.  The Verisign folks8 	were very disappointed when they discovered the problem= 	on their own.  Strong language on their part believing it isc 	"unconscionable"i  6 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_3.html  M "Last November Verisign Global Registry Services, a domain name registry, wastO down for two hours after a crucial Sun box crashed. Verisign complained but got,L no explanation. Months later an executive at Verisign ran across the Gartner
 bulletin."   M "I said to Sun, 'My God, you knew about this problem, and you didn't tell me?eL That's unconscionable,' " he says.Verisign still uses Sun for some tasks but6 has moved important systems onto IBM Unix servers.      - 	Tell us the half truth in those paragraphs.  ? 	Mysteriously enough, the above two paragraphs have disappearedo8 	from the online version.  But it doesn't matter.  They ? 	are scattered across news servers throughout the world.  Looks 6 	like you guys are working overtime to stomp this out.   	Good luck!    > B > Its a tactic much more at home in the newsrooms of the National ' > Enquirer or the Sport here in the UK.- >   ? 	I laid it out for you , let me know where the half truths are.p   >> > <Snip>. >> >9 >> > The eCache FUD isn't getting you anywhere is it, youg; >> > keep FUDDING and FUDDING digging and digging but sadlyh8 >> > for you its the same story every time. Each of your5 >> > posts is simply a re-hash of a previous posting,w" >> > nothing new turns up does it. >>  B >>         You are having a problem with realities and facts here.. >>         You state: "same story every time."G >>         This is far from the case Andrew.  Take a look at the ForbesiH >>         story for example.  It is from their November 13, 2000 issue.J >>         Last I checked the calendar says November 6, 2000.  For someoneG >>         that is dredging up "old news" ;-) and using the "same story G >>         every time" it is rather convenient that the Forbes story isnG >>         just now hitting the newsstands.  Andrew, might I suggest if J >>         you are going to *attempt* to write/post counter-points to whatM >>         I say *please* *please* attempt to use some angle that is a little- >>         more plausible. >> a? > So tell me what the Forbes article said that is new news Rob,S >   < 	Verisign, Bell South.  One nameless customer that has spent= 	$3 million of their own money attempting to fix the problem.h= 	The article is very informative.  Show me what is "old news" D 	in that article and I will show you stuff that isn't found anywhere 	else but in that article.  5 > Gama radiation (not new news) there was an article >2 > citing research CERN is doing on this which was  > posting to this newsgroup.4 > Static (not new news) it been covered extensively.6 > ECC (its in the design specs for the UltraII) so its1 > hardly news and the jury is out on this anyway.s3 > Component problems with Sun ecache, not new news.I >   8 	The jury may be out on ECC L2 cache?  What a laugher.  4 	Johnny Shoe admits it was a mistake leaving it out:  6 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_2.html  N "Engineers have long known that memory chips can be disrupted by radiation andD other environmental factors. That is why Hewlett-Packard and IBM useK error-correcting code, or ECC, which detects cache errors and restores bitsK that were changed by mistake.   O Sun servers lack ECC protection. "Frankly, we just missed it. It's something wewL regret at this point," Shoemaker says. Its next high-end servers, based on aN new processor called the UltraSparc III, will have ECC protection; they are to debut in mid-2001."   = 	So your view of the matter "ECC and L2" is inconsistent with ? 	Johnny Shoe's.  Are we surprised?  Not in the least bit.  Your A 	view is often inconsistent with Sun's senior management.  Thanks- 	for pointing that out Andrew.    4 > Please Rob don't accuse me of being implausible on5 > this newsgroup, I know that the backing choir will t4 > support you, but your track record of plausability > is lets say poor at the best.A >   5 	Fine.  For once find something I said regarding the 4E 	Sun ecache issue that is clearly counter to reality or what we read ME 	in other well respected journals (Forbes, ComputerWorld) and I will <E 	agree with you.  I have agreed with you on several occasions in the wB 	past as have others in comp.os.vms.  You are often on the mark.   	But not in this case.    : > Spiralog, Galaxies, ISV enthusisam for OpenVMS, WildFire8 > whipping everyones ass, EV6/7 and I almost forgot the 8 > little Cut an Paste mistake in your FUD Sun over eBays	 > outage.l >   = 	Which outage?  They all begin to run together after a while.r   http://www.auctionguild.com/         ebaY Outages 10-12 Oct 00t     ebaY Outages 13-15 Oct     ebaY Outages 17 -18 Oct 00     ebaY Outages 19 Oct 00     ebaY Outages 22 Oct 00     ebaY Outages 23-25 Oct 00s     ebaY Outages 26, 27 Oct 00     ebaY Outages 28 - 30 Oct     ebaY Outages 30Oct - 1Novs     ebaY Outages 2 Nov 00    ---o  = > You are a continued source of ammusement to me and no doubt ) > embarassment to many OpenVMS advocates.s  @ 	No, you have to do better.  Historically, you have little to go' 	on but occasional gaffes penned by me.u   				Roba   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:20:29 +0200r7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>f Subject: RE: End of an era.aO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6EB0@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>w   > >JF Mezei wrote: > >> s > >> David Mathog wrote:7 > >> > I hope your company has hired the extra support n > personnel who will be needed; > >> > once the Win2K machines start replacing the OpenVMS g > ones. Otherwise you can 3 > >> > look forward to some very, very long nights.o > >>  : > >> Not if yo cut a CD image of each machine, and when a  > machine start to haveM@ > >> problems, you just wide the disk and reinstall from the CD  > image. :-) :-), > >> Isn't that standard Windows debugging ? > >a8 > >With most recent bios, you can boot right off the CD. > G > Err, yes but that doesn't magically refresh the disk with Windows and  > all Apps.M  F Yes, reboot from the CD. And then place automaticly back a ghostimage./ Or a restore with another recovery application.a  T Better reboot every night from network and place back the images on the Win2K boxes.U Of course the databases and documents needs to be on an OpenVMS host of an Unix host.o2 Or directly backupped on tape or nearline storage.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:51:34 +0200nB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning7 Message-ID: <3CEA9736.548C@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>e   John Smith wrote:K9 > [article about police cluster with a five years uptime]w >e$ > Is this article available on-line?  nE Probably at the end of the week when a new paper edition is released. C But even then it will only be in Dutch. The subject of the article .? is 'nooit uit de lucht' (never out of the air), and the URL is e" http://www.automatiseringsgids.nl    -- > ME Posted by news://news.nb.nud   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:41:07 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarningH Message-ID: <72AG8.63937$ah_.30521@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Thank you for the link.m  F My cousin speaks/reads Dutch fluently so getting the detail won't be a problem.    G "Michiel Erens" <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> wrote in 9 message news:3CEA9736.548C@this.mailaddress.is.invalid...o > John Smith wrote:n; > > [article about police cluster with a five years uptime]  > > & > > Is this article available on-line? >hG > Probably at the end of the week when a new paper edition is released.eD > But even then it will only be in Dutch. The subject of the article@ > is 'nooit uit de lucht' (never out of the air), and the URL is# > http://www.automatiseringsgids.nlw >  > -- > ME > Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:14:38 GMTe- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)i' Subject: Re: FTP mget on latest files ?e1 Message-ID: <3ceac686.203033406@news.process.com>e  O On Wed, 15 May 2002 13:43:17 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winstonm - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote:6  M >Or if what you're really trying to do is to maintain a copy on  VMS  of that@F >directory which has  the same thousands of files, you might really beM >interested in an FTP_MIRROR.COM procedure.  I think you can find that in the  >usual VMS freeware locations. >e9 FTP.PROCESS.COM in [.VMS-FREEWARE.FILESERV]FTP_MIRROR.ZIPt   http://www.process.com/openvms/e: ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/ftp_mirror.zip   and the other mirrorsa   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/g8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:46:34 GMTE# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tG Subject: HP doesn't act positively towards VMS any more than CPQ or DEC G Message-ID: <e7AG8.78831$t8_.5150@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,  E Perhaps the title of the post should be as changed with this message?r  L I have sent 3 messages to HP thus far, all polite, all composed in much lessH of a rush than I tend to do when posting to the ng - zero acknowlegement> that my messages were read, much less having replies thus far.   YMMV      7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messagea' news:0033000064817469000002L092*@MHS...r  ? Judging from the promptness and content of the email reply thatoB I received when I sent an email that contained issues and concerns ***but was politely stated***r   I think they *are* listening.s   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET $ Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:15 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET3 Subject: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECo    H Admittedly these are HPTC folks but..... when will whomever owns OpenVMS4 listen to their customer's concerns about marketing?      8 http://www.supercomputingonline.com/article.php?sid=2047  K "Amid much fanfare last week the new HP began formal operations and hit thelI street. This week Supercomputing Online interviewed HP executives Ty RabenG and Steven Joachims to get their thoughts on the new HP's place in, and > potential impact on, the high performance computing industry."   ...a   "SCO: How about OpenVMS?    I RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as it hasbL under Compaq and to some extent was the same under Digital before that. It'sI a very, very capable operating system that has an extremely large base oftL customers who are very loyal and don't want to move to anything else and we'K re going to support them until they don't want to use it anymore. And we'reeH going to do that on Alpha now, and it's going to be moved to the ItaniumK product family platforms and customers will be able to use OpenVMS for just  as long as they want to."e   --------------  L Hey HP - The status quo isn't good enough for VMS customers - we want to seeF enough of a marketing push to ensure that there is a vibrant, thrivingG 3rd-party software market across all industry verticals. We want to see.K growth in the installed base because that will give us a larger talent pool L to draw from. In these ways we will feel comfortable in investing further in OpenVMS.  I How can a company like HP have a division (OpenVMS) that brings in nearlyAJ $4B annually across all hardware, software, and services offerings, NOT do= any substantial marketing of this product to *NEW* customers?.  J As a HP shareholder, I'd say that's bordering on, no, it IS dereliction of? duty and deserving of a real shakeup of the Board of Directors.   = HP, we're awaiting some positive action on all these fronts.=y   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:31:06 +0000 (UTC) 5 From: "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK>h7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECs/ Message-ID: <ace79q$t15$1@helle.btinternet.com>0  
 Just an Idea. I If HP are not going to commit to the continued development of OpenVMS, is C there a way that they can be legally forced to give it up for free?i    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:pmsG8.75514$t8_.3046@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...tJ > Admittedly these are HPTC folks but..... when will whomever owns OpenVMS6 > listen to their customer's concerns about marketing? >s >g > : > http://www.supercomputingonline.com/article.php?sid=2047 >fI > "Amid much fanfare last week the new HP began formal operations and hitl theFK > street. This week Supercomputing Online interviewed HP executives Ty Rabe I > and Steven Joachims to get their thoughts on the new HP's place in, and1@ > potential impact on, the high performance computing industry." >s > .... >  > "SCO: How about OpenVMS? >  >nK > RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as it hasgI > under Compaq and to some extent was the same under Digital before that.d It'sK > a very, very capable operating system that has an extremely large base of J > customers who are very loyal and don't want to move to anything else and we'tG > re going to support them until they don't want to use it anymore. And  we'reoJ > going to do that on Alpha now, and it's going to be moved to the ItaniumH > product family platforms and customers will be able to use OpenVMS for just > as long as they want to."w >r > -------------- >wJ > Hey HP - The status quo isn't good enough for VMS customers - we want to seeoH > enough of a marketing push to ensure that there is a vibrant, thrivingI > 3rd-party software market across all industry verticals. We want to seeyH > growth in the installed base because that will give us a larger talent poolK > to draw from. In these ways we will feel comfortable in investing further. in
 > OpenVMS. >.K > How can a company like HP have a division (OpenVMS) that brings in nearlyoL > $4B annually across all hardware, software, and services offerings, NOT do? > any substantial marketing of this product to *NEW* customers?  > L > As a HP shareholder, I'd say that's bordering on, no, it IS dereliction ofA > duty and deserving of a real shakeup of the Board of Directors.t >p> > HP, we're awaiting some positive action on all these fronts. >i >e >y   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:15:35 GMTw* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECeA Message-ID: <XNyG8.14178$oF3.1215044@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>S  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message ' news:0033000064817469000002L092*@MHS...w  ? Judging from the promptness and content of the email reply thateB I received when I sent an email that contained issues and concerns ***but was politely stated***l   I think they *are* listening.i   ***h  I Well, Marcello and many below his level seemed willing enough to listen a F while ago.  But that didn't result in any positive changes (unless youL consider simply not outright killing VMS to qualify as a 'positive change').  K John's real point seemed to be less about listening than about acting, evenw1 if his subject line may have not made that clear.v   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:50:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECr, Message-ID: <3CEAC13D.937CB968@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:1O ## customers who are very loyal and don't want to move to anything else and we'sE ## re going to support them until they don't want to use it anymore. r  G What is needed is for HP to make us want VMS. They err in thinking thatrJ without any TLC from HP, VMS customers will stay on VMS. History has shownK that lack of care and feeding of VMS not only results in loss of customers, - but has also brought down 2 companies so far.r  N > Hey HP - The status quo isn't good enough for VMS customers - we want to seeH > enough of a marketing push to ensure that there is a vibrant, thriving: > 3rd-party software market across all industry verticals.  M We don't WANT it. We NEED it. With HP not selling VMS, the task falls upon ustL to convince customers/management to stay with VMS. But to do so we need helpN from HP otherwise we have no credibility when we say things that go against or! ar not supported by HP's actions.   K If you tell a manager to stay on VMS because you have heard that Compaq wasuN going to start to advertsise its enterprise systems and get VMS rolling again,M and then you realise that what Compaq does is to advertise wintel pizza boxeseM in a VW minivan and call that "enterprise", then it is you who had the egg ofoK the face because you promised your management something which Compaq didn'tr  deliver but told you they would.  K > How can a company like HP have a division (OpenVMS) that brings in nearlyuL > $4B annually across all hardware, software, and services offerings, NOT do? > any substantial marketing of this product to *NEW* customers?f  H The minute they are convinced VMS has no future, then it becomes easy toM justify not spending any money on trying to grow an OS which will be gone andU no chance of growth.  J The minute your goal is to grow your windows and unix business by stealingJ VMS, MVS, OS400 etc customers, then it becomes counterproductive to try to+ grow VMS at the expense of Windows or Unix.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:43:46 -0400v* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>7 Subject: RE: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECy- Message-ID: <0033000064863806000002L062*@MHS>0  " =0AIt is my belief that given that  ' 1) HP didn't start as a PeeCee company,o  D 2) HP has had experience in successfully marketing an enterprise OS,   it stands to reason that  H 1) they will be less likely to see a RedmondoSantaClarian-centric unive= rseh    than their predecessors and  H 2) therefore will more likely to grow the franchise than past owners se= emed tot be.   D One doesn't start cutting steaks from cattle that are still running.  H And the more we make ***reasoned arguments*** for more aggressive marke= ting ofiH OpenVMS to those at HP, the better the chances are that this will occur= .s   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe# Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:14 PM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET7 Subject: RE: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC(    7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messagei' news:0033000064817469000002L092*@MHS...t  ? Judging from the promptness and content of the email reply that.B I received when I sent an email that contained issues and concerns ***but was politely stated***    I think they *are* listening.t   ***c  H Well, Marcello and many below his level seemed willing enough to listen=  aF while ago.  But that didn't result in any positive changes (unless youH consider simply not outright killing VMS to qualify as a 'positive chan= ge').e  H John's real point seemed to be less about listening than about acting, = even1 if his subject line may have not made that clear.c   - bill=,   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:32:38 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECtH Message-ID: <aWzG8.63883$ah_.16113@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Nope. They own it.  ? They can take the master build source code and launch it into adK non-returning trajectory into space, pointed at the farthest know quasar ifJ they wanted to.e  L The only thing they are required to do, by law, is to continue to support it5 (whatever that means) for 5 years after the EOL date.t  E In hardware, that usually means having spare parts available that aresI identical to the ones available on the EOL date, so if they need a biggerr9 pull-up resistor to make them work properly - you're SOL.A  J For software, it probably 'legally' means that all they have to do is haveK some CONDIST CD's available for those who have lost theirs. If they do moree$ than that, it's a non-binding bonus.  I And for both h/w and s/w that's only binding for as long as the corporatenK entity legally exists...so Bob, you better hope that HP doesn't go bankruptB. before 2006 else you'll never make it to 2011.      @ "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK> wrote in message) news:ace79q$t15$1@helle.btinternet.com...t > Just an Idea. K > If HP are not going to commit to the continued development of OpenVMS, isoE > there a way that they can be legally forced to give it up for free?t >s >-0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC > news:pmsG8.75514$t8_.3046@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... L > > Admittedly these are HPTC folks but..... when will whomever owns OpenVMS8 > > listen to their customer's concerns about marketing? > >Y > >g > >N< > > http://www.supercomputingonline.com/article.php?sid=2047 > >aK > > "Amid much fanfare last week the new HP began formal operations and hitd > therH > > street. This week Supercomputing Online interviewed HP executives Ty RabeK > > and Steven Joachims to get their thoughts on the new HP's place in, and0B > > potential impact on, the high performance computing industry." > >j > > .... > >  > > "SCO: How about OpenVMS? > >D > >1I > > RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as it> has K > > under Compaq and to some extent was the same under Digital before that.t > It'sJ > > a very, very capable operating system that has an extremely large base ofL > > customers who are very loyal and don't want to move to anything else and > we'hI > > re going to support them until they don't want to use it anymore. And  > we'retL > > going to do that on Alpha now, and it's going to be moved to the ItaniumJ > > product family platforms and customers will be able to use OpenVMS for > just > > as long as they want to."t > >t > > -------------- > >tL > > Hey HP - The status quo isn't good enough for VMS customers - we want to > seeoJ > > enough of a marketing push to ensure that there is a vibrant, thrivingK > > 3rd-party software market across all industry verticals. We want to seeaJ > > growth in the installed base because that will give us a larger talent > poolE > > to draw from. In these ways we will feel comfortable in investing  furtherr > in > > OpenVMS. > >-F > > How can a company like HP have a division (OpenVMS) that brings in nearlyK > > $4B annually across all hardware, software, and services offerings, NOT  doA > > any substantial marketing of this product to *NEW* customers?l > >sK > > As a HP shareholder, I'd say that's bordering on, no, it IS derelictionf ofC > > duty and deserving of a real shakeup of the Board of Directors.y > >h@ > > HP, we're awaiting some positive action on all these fronts. > >  > >l > >y >  >D   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:45:23 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC , Message-ID: <3CEAEA1C.BB1F2046@videotron.ca>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:a) > 1) HP didn't start as a PeeCee company,jF > 2) HP has had experience in successfully marketing an enterprise OS,    K The question is whether HP is today that same company that they used to be. N Carly had done some pretty dramatic changes to HP since she was given the job.N She spun off much of the "real" HP into an unknown company called Agilent. AndM she has repeatedly stated that the future lied with industry standard serverse (aka: wintel).  M She also stated that she and Curly had identical views of the future views ofa9 computing and this is what made their wedding so natural.n  & So I take nothing for granted from HP.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 02:09:49 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECo' Message-ID: <3CEB0142.3EA7B8C6@fsi.net>-   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:a > A > Judging from the promptness and content of the email reply thatrD > I received when I sent an email that contained issues and concerns > ***but was politely stated***e >  > I think they *are* listening.   E So, when can we expect to start seeing OpenVMS ads in the mainstream?w   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:02:54 -0400f  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?I? Message-ID: <OF9FC3823B.DFF5B43B-ON85256BC0.006088D5@metso.com>/   Rob,H Is there something in V7.3-1 that prevents this?  Else why not? ..Or are you just being mean? -Normy        C brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) on 05/21/2002 11:52:33 AM/  ; Please respond to brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)w   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:-8 Subject:    Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?    ? In article <OFF40156AB.E20B313F-ON85256BC0.004833D1@metso.com>,i" norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes: >E! >  From the fibre channel slides:5 >eH >  A V7.3-1 TIMA will later provide HSG80 mini-merge capability and that will( >  speed up merge operations quite a bit > E > Will this be back-ported to V7.2-2?  (Obviously we have the classicr& > 3rd-party software provider holdup.)  " It will not be backported.  Sorry.   --  / Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec GroupM brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comW   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 02:05:20 GMTM1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>f5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported? ' Message-ID: <3CEB0034.7AC6F80B@fsi.net>t   Rob Brooks wrote:* > d > In article <OFF40156AB.E20B313F-ON85256BC0.004833D1@metso.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes: > >o# > >  From the fibre channel slides:, > > O > >  A V7.3-1 TIMA will later provide HSG80 mini-merge capability and that willj* > >  speed up merge operations quite a bit > > G > > Will this be back-ported to V7.2-2?  (Obviously we have the classicV( > > 3rd-party software provider holdup.) > $ > It will not be backported.  Sorry.  ' What would it take to make that happen?i  E What's your price? (Read: "How many more VMS sites are you willing to  sacrifice?")  H Executive types (read "decision makers") tend to take a dim view of such things.g   -- r David J. Dachteraw dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:45:05 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?y4 Message-ID: <1020521232513.353B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  - On Wed, 22 May 2002, David J. Dachtera wrote:d   > Rob Brooks wrote:y > > f > > In article <OFF40156AB.E20B313F-ON85256BC0.004833D1@metso.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes: > > > % > > >  From the fibre channel slides:o > > >aQ > > >  A V7.3-1 TIMA will later provide HSG80 mini-merge capability and that will , > > >  speed up merge operations quite a bit > > >PI > > > Will this be back-ported to V7.2-2?  (Obviously we have the classicu* > > > 3rd-party software provider holdup.) > > & > > It will not be backported.  Sorry. > ) > What would it take to make that happen?e > G > What's your price? (Read: "How many more VMS sites are you willing too > sacrifice?") > J > Executive types (read "decision makers") tend to take a dim view of such	 > things.p  F I tend to take a dim view of software that is so O/S version dependent1 that it doesn't work across a simple O/S upgrade.n  B V7.3 has been out for a year.  Is the 3rd party software known notA to work with it, or has it just not been tested?  If so, did they B test it with V7.2-2 (more recent than V7.3!) or are you making theA assumption that if something is qualified with V7.2(-1?), it willeD work fine with V7.2-x (and with ECO's), but it needs to be re-tested for V7.x (x>2)?U  C On the other hand, does the mini-merge support for the HSG80 entailR> more than just adding the HSG80 to the list of controllers for which mini-merge works?t  ? Norm's original post says this feature is in a V7.3-1 TIMA.  NoiB mention of it being back-ported to V7.3.  If this is just a matter@ of changing a table in an existing driver, that seems silly.  IfA on the other hand, it involves updating everything on V7.3 to the.F V7.3-1 versions, except changing the version number string in SYS.EXE,C then I can see they wouldn't want to bother.  Rob, rather than just C saying "It will not be backported.  Sorry.", it would prevent these.( little tempests if you simply added why?   -- t John Santosa Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:36:45 -0400J, From: David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> Subject: mkisofs for Vax, Message-ID: <3CEADA0D.18B5A036@email.uc.edu>   Hi,"  A Is there a binary version of mkisofs for Vax/Vms. I've been using F DFY$vmscd.exe with cdrecord and I really like it. I would also like to; be able to make cd's that are readable on unix/dos systems.t  F I have searched for a pretty long time for a binary file and still notF found it. I have also had some difficulty compiling it on VMS 6.2, I'mD still kinda a newbie and building from source is a little difficult.  B I see in the cdrecord source tree directory a command procedure to? compile with instead of using make, Is this for mkisofs or justr	 cdrecord?o      alsoe    B Is there an equivalent command to copy cd's like we do in unix `dd if=<device> of=cdrom.iso`T    ) Any help would be greatly appreciated....r   Thanks Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:44:20 -0700i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s Subject: RE: mkisofs for Vax9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEIJFAAA.tom@kednos.com>l   Look in the FAQa  = FILE7.  How do I write recordable CD media (CD-R) on OpenVMS?e  J At its simplest: get LDDRIVER from the Freeware.  Get CDRECORD or CDWRITE.J (CDRECORD and CDWRITE are freely available, though versions are not on theK Freeware V5.0 distribition; the URLs are referenced later in this section).t .  .d .   = Additional information is available via David J. Dachtera at:o  &   http://www.djesys.com/vms/cdrom.html  	 Also see:i  6   http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technology/CD-R/vms.html  B   http://www.faqs.org/faqs/cdrom/cd-recordable/part1/preamble.html      http://www.tmesis.com/CDrom/   >-----Original Message-----34 >From: David Michaels [mailto:michaedi@email.uc.edu]$ >Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 4:37 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: mkisofs for Vaxb >. >p >Hi, >aB >Is there a binary version of mkisofs for Vax/Vms. I've been usingG >DFY$vmscd.exe with cdrecord and I really like it. I would also like tos< >be able to make cd's that are readable on unix/dos systems. > G >I have searched for a pretty long time for a binary file and still not G >found it. I have also had some difficulty compiling it on VMS 6.2, I'm E >still kinda a newbie and building from source is a little difficult.' >eC >I see in the cdrecord source tree directory a command procedure tot@ >compile with instead of using make, Is this for mkisofs or just
 >cdrecord? >e >s > also >t >nC >Is there an equivalent command to copy cd's like we do in unix `ddt >if=<device> of=cdrom.iso` >- >-* >Any help would be greatly appreciated.... >0 >Thanks  >Dave  >M >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.R; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).3@ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >o ---v& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:56:05 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>M Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesu@ Message-ID: <FvyG8.60372$th.5787578@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:yhFM8Xmwzk5$@eisner.encompasserve.org...hH > In article <91kG8.53519$th.5156257@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill& Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:ppGoULVPAa9+@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > >> In article <Y8fG8.66692$e66.6083222@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill* > > Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >> > > >> > >> More Sun CPU weakness:V > >> > >> > >vK http://www.ideasinternational.com/benchmark/Oracle/stand%20V11i.html#Sorted  > > by > >> NotesMark > >>I > >> Rank System User Count Average Response Time (sec) Benchmark Versione Date > >> Submitted > >>0 > >> 5 Sun Fire V880 3416 1.900 11.5.3 30-Nov-01. > >> 6 Compaq ES45 3304 1.660 11.5.3 14-Mar-02 > >> > >>7 > >> Running the same version of the Oracle application ? > >> suite and 8 UltraSparc III CPUs manage to barely squeek by  > >> 4 Alpha CPUs. > >yJ > > Of course, you neglect to mention that the ES45 was running the latest (1001aL > > MHz) Alphas while the Sun box was running 750 MHz USIIIs rather than theJ > > current top-of-the-line 1050 MHz USIIIs.  700ish MHz Alphas would have been? > > about right if you wanted an apples-to-apples comparison...  > >i >eB > Not neglect.  It is almost impossible to get "apples to apples".C > What you can do is use your imagination and suggest that "gee, if C > the Sun CPUs were 20% faster, they would still be behind Alphas."-  L You really do seem to have problems getting numbers right, Rob.  The correctK statement above would be "Gee, if the Sun CPUs were *40%* faster they would K still be about 26% [not exactly the dramatic difference you seem to want toeA suggest] behind Alpha on a per-CPU basis" (though of course in an L 8-processor configuration that offers about 1.5 times the performance of theJ 4-processor ES45 box and hence *still* isn't quite apples-to-apples, sinceD MP scaling isn't linear between box architectures - as the GS series demonstrates all too well).h  K BTW, that 40% above is just the simple MHz increase of 1050 over 750.  WhentJ you look at the SPECint numbers in similar Sun boxes, the difference (bothE base and peak) is actually greater than 40%, further reducing Alpha'sr per-CPU advantage.   >sB > To jump back to 700 MHz on Alpha is to go back over 2 years, whyD > not suggest the Sun CPUs are faster than EV5?  That would tilt the > tables a little better.   I If you can't figure out why my comparison was apt, you're stupider than InK thought.  If others can't see the logical failure of your analogy above, soi	 are they.    >0 >0 > >>I > >> There are countless other examples cross-platform, whether comparingeI > >> IBM, Intel, HP, or Alpha CPUs.  There are several Sun strengths too. H > >> It is still one of the weakest, and will probably stay that way, ifF > >> it doesn't disappear altogether.  You have a picture of a company" > >> in total disarray internally: > >>2 > >> http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020510S0062 > >sL > > Er, I think you may have provided the wrong URL above:  the company that: > > appears to be in major disarray in that article is HP. > >,A > > As for Sun's grievous straits, try this one (watch for wrap):i > >  > >-L http://www.silicon.com/bin/bladerunner?30REQEVENT=&REQAUTH=21046&14001REQSUB > > =REQINT1=53435 > >oI > > 17% year-over-year shipment growth in a down market, no less:  64% ofzF > > *total* Unix shipments and 54% of *total* Unix revenue (i.e., more	 shipmentshE > > and revenue than all the other Unix competition combined) on 3.3%u revenuej > > growth.p > >pJ > > Oh, wait:  Windows is going to rip out the soft underbelly of the Unix > > market.  Right.o > >l > @ > Yep.  And by the way, all those Sun growth numbers are hollow.  H Sure.  They're just better than everyone else's Unix numbers - combined.I And Sun appears better-positioned to capitalize on any recovery as well -eH certainly better than cHumPaq's dead (Tru64) and atherosclerotic (HP-UX)
 offerings.  4 Nothing more worth responding to, I'm afraid:  gigo.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 18:09:04 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)L Subject: Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts)= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205211709.67d44dea@posting.google.com>   e Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<3blkeu82me062re8k8tavb1uji6mjn5irr@4ax.com>...SC > On 21 May 2002 05:57:48 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)t > wrote: >  > > J > >their is still a need for a single processor workstation for small workH > >groups/offices, and small business ... I hope they don't forget that! > G > There will be no single processor EV7 based motherboard - workstation8H > or otherwise. I don't know if they intend to continue EV6 based single > processor systems.  : I know that, I am stating that they better shrink EV68 and7 put out 1ghz single cpu boxes for the smaller users ... = we need them, and until itanium is ready in 2005, they better > continue to make ds10 or ds10l's or a replacement workstation/2 small server ... don't forget the small vms shops!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:02:25 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>nL Subject: Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts), Message-ID: <3CEAFC25.5DE54B31@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:p< > I know that, I am stating that they better shrink EV68 and9 > put out 1ghz single cpu boxes for the smaller users ...d? > we need them, and until itanium is ready in 2005, they betteri@ > continue to make ds10 or ds10l's or a replacement workstation/4 > small server ... don't forget the small vms shops!  M All I have heard is that HP will fulfill compaq's promises of EV7 and EV79. IeJ have not heard anything about speedups of EV6. I have no expectations thisK will happen. I have every expectation to see low end Alphaservers slowly beoP widthdrawn or not updated and become too slow to be marketable against the 8086.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:48:36 GMT 0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS wizardb9 Message-ID: <EoyG8.31$LY6.745528@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>d  K Just did another 81 today. Mostly I have to wait for a bunch to be done and : for the wiz to let me know he's ready to have them posted.     --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingG Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comoL 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875r5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselft,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------      / "Joe" <cstranslations@msn.com> wrote in message 7 news:d56d1c2d.0205210552.6a3fda6c@posting.google.com... F > Dunno if the wizard (who ever or what ever he/she/it is) follows the5 > NG. If I was a betting man I'd bet that he does)...E > G > Every so often I pop over an check out the responses over there - get)E > some interesting stuff from time to time. Maybe it's just me but ituF > seems like it's been a bit longer than usual since the last batch ofG > responses was posted. Has the pachyderm been drafted into the portingt
 > effort?????n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:39:26 GMTP* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>K Subject: Re: Other HP printers and USB (was: Newest version of DCPS and ourr5 Message-ID: <210520021534014909%paul.anderson@hp.com>y  = In article <acc3rh$h2q$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, Keith A. Lewisi <lewis@PROBE.mitre.org> wrote:  ; > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes in article-I > <3CE97E59.1083C088@videotron.ca> dated Mon, 20 May 2002 18:53:27 -0400:  > P > >Besiodes, is it true to state that HP doesn't have real postscript, just some > >imitation PS ?  > H > It's an open standard; HP has as much of a shot at getting it right as
 > anybody.  , Except Adobe gets it more right than anyone.  ? You are correct, though, that HP does not use Adobe PostScript.w   Paul   -- t  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringi   Hewlett-Packard Companye   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 10:16:29 +0200r" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>/ Subject: Re: Please help: Hobbes failed to bootg5 Message-ID: <ace8s1$os15u$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>-  B Apparently the system disk is not that bad, you can still boot it.K A login failure could be an indication that your sysuaf.dat file is lost or  damaged.2 A tedious way to figure out what is wrong is this: - do a SET/STARTUP OPA0: $ spawn7	 $ set verr! $ set def $1$dkb300:[sys0.sysexe]e $ dir    ! check for sysuaf.dat + $ set def $1$dkb300:[sys0.syscommon.sysexe]s
 $ @startup  @ And look at what VMS logs; a terminal emulator might be handy...  
 Good luck.  6 Scott Squires <hobbesnet@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:ff921edf.0205191730.1058e71c@posting.google.com...4E > Hobbes is a MicroVAX 3100/40, running VMS 7.2.  I rebooted him, andyD > when he came back up, OPCOM was spitting out this message over and > over:  >e7 > %%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  19-MAY-2002 19:49:06:11 %%%%%%%%%%s) > Message from use AUDIT$SERVER on HOBBES D > Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on HOBBES, > system id: 1025e5 > Auditable event:     Detached process login failure.. > Event time:          19-MAY-2002 19:49:06:08 > PID:                 20400078. > Process name:        EVL > Username:            DECNET  > Process owner:       [SYSTEM]JF > Image name:          $1$DKB300:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXEB > Status:              %LIB-F-ACTIMAGE, error activating image !AS >rG > At first I thought it was a problem with EVL.  But then I SET HOST toeA > Hobbes from Calvin.  It said, "Error activating image !AS".  Soi+ > apparantly it is a problem with LOGINOUT.A >lE > I then rebooted and used a conversational boot to set STARTUP_P1 touD > "MIN".  After it had set the interactive login limit to 8, and theE > system process had logged out, I pressed return to login.  It said,e > "No logical name match". >eF > Then I rebooted and used a conversational boot to SET/STARTUP OPA0:.F > It joined the cluster, and then sat there.  I pressed return, and it  > said, "No logical name match". >cG > I can't think of anything that I changed since the last time I booted.  > Hobbes (couple of months ago). >wH > I have access to the boot disk because I can mount it on Calvin.  WhatC > kind of things are likely to cause this to happen?  What should I  > check? >5	 > Thanks,  > Scott Squires    ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 17:11:36 -0700+ From: hobbesnet@hotmail.com (Scott Squires)./ Subject: Re: Please help: Hobbes failed to boota= Message-ID: <ff921edf.0205211611.4b2ecf98@posting.google.com>6  K nic <junk@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3CE9981C.20EE0B99@127.0.0.1>... E > Boot minimum and rename AUDIT$SERVER.DAT. Reboot full, reboot again  > full.    Thank you!!  That fixed it.c  = The reason I couldn't log in when I booted minimum is becauseaC LGI_CALLOUTS was set to 1, and the logical hadn't been defined yet.e  C Thanks also to John E. Malmberg and JF Mezei for their suggestions.   ( Very happy that Hobbes has been revived,
 Scott Squiresa   ------------------------------   Date: 21 May 2002 21:19:38 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu * Subject: Re: selective failure, MX and DNS+ Message-ID: <acedla$c57$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>u  % system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu writes:e   >Hello,r >hF >Out of the blue it appears that MX can not find DNS for some machines< >ucx sho host and ucx sho host/nolocal finds them just fine.  C Apparently one of our DNS servers was having a bellyache and NetlibfG wasn't dealing with it gracefully.  At Matt's recommendation I upgradeda and all appears to be well.s  ) >vms 7.2, tcpip 5.0A, MX 5.1, Netlib 2.2Fe >o >From the smtp log:a >wQ >20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.73 Processing queue entry number 71 on node NIUHEP for pathe
 > number 2E >20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.82   Recipient: <MORRIS@TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDU>,t >route=TBONE >.PHYSICS.NIU.EDU P >20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.86   SMTP_SEND: looking up host name TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDUM >20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.88   SMTP_SEND: NETLIB_DNS_MX_LOOKUP status is 00000870aI >20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.89              -- %SYSTEM-W-ENDOFFILE, end of filenO >20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.15   1 rcpts need retry, next try 20-MAY-2002 19:38:13.15i7 >20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.20 *** End of processing pass ***t > . >Any suggestions on what the problem could be? >a" >Thanks for any help you can give. >. >Robert Morphisn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:42:51 GMT ; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <John.non.Gemignani@non.hp.com>-* Subject: Re: selective failure, MX and DNS* Message-ID: <3CEA8595.41B07BAB@non.hp.com>  E I recently turned on some of the anti-spam support in V5.1 on my mail8G server (VMS and TCPIP ... naturally).  I found that I was getting falseV@ host back translation failures, and email was being rejected.  IH reported it within the group and it turns out that there is a fix for itH already (the problem is in BIND).  ECO 4 for V5.1 (about to be released)F will contain this fix.  [Unfortunately I upgraded to V5.3 this morning7 and the fix will be in ECO 1 which isn't ready yet :( ]m  5 When ECO 4 comes out, please apply it and try it out.o   -John     $ system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: >  > Hello, > G > Out of the blue it appears that MX can not find DNS for some machinese= > ucx sho host and ucx sho host/nolocal finds them just fine.f > * > vms 7.2, tcpip 5.0A, MX 5.1, Netlib 2.2F >  > From the smtp log: > R > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.73 Processing queue entry number 71 on node NIUHEP for path >  number 2mF > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.82   Recipient: <MORRIS@TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDU>,
 > route=TBONEG > .PHYSICS.NIU.EDUQ > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.86   SMTP_SEND: looking up host name TBONE.PHYSICS.NIU.EDUnN > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.88   SMTP_SEND: NETLIB_DNS_MX_LOOKUP status is 00000870J > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:12.89              -- %SYSTEM-W-ENDOFFILE, end of fileP > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.15   1 rcpts need retry, next try 20-MAY-2002 19:38:13.158 > 20-MAY-2002 17:08:13.20 *** End of processing pass *** > / > Any suggestions on what the problem could be?m > # > Thanks for any help you can give.w >  > Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:56:27 -04001( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com>8 Subject: Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??/ Message-ID: <uelgkc9eoca379@corp.supernews.com>d       You're SOL.3  =     The Slot B's had the CPU's attached during manufacturing. <     You'd need some seriously expensive equipment (ie: Not a?     radio shack soldering iron) to attach this CPU to anything.e  5     SlotB does not equal DP264 daughter card. Totallye     different.  6     Sell it on EBay and let someone else deal with it.0     Caveat Emptor. This is not your kids Athlon.  D                                                                 mike  5 "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com> wrote in message'7 news:b4a22604.0205210123.7787e4a4@posting.google.com...a	 > Hi All,e >tI > I asked this some time ago and we didnt get far, so Ill give it anotherr > shot.s > I > I have an Alpha 21264a CPU (bare). I need a (any it would appear) 21264i CPUt, > daughtercard (aka module) and motherboard.L > Does anyone have any ideas. I have tried Harddata and some other retailers2 > and they claimed they wont/cant sell such parts. >rK > My research indicates that the DP264 motherboard and a daughtercard would I > work.. but where to find empty motherboards? The CPU itself is rated at L > 733MHz, but I have been led to believe that it would simply run at a lower5 > speed (500MHz in a DP264?) in a slower motherboard.- >- >-% > Any other suggestions most welcome,0 >2 >6 >  > Matt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:08:26 -0400t( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>" Subject: Some DECNET help please!!B Message-ID: <20020521200347.H27786-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  4 I am having a what I hope is a minor DECNET problem.  D First, I am running VMS 7.1 on a VAX 4000 and RSTS/E on a PDP-11/44.( I am running DECNET Phase_IV on the VAX.  ( I can "SET HOST" from the PDP to itself.( I can "SET HOST" from the VAX to itself.) I can "SET HOST" from the PDP to the VAX.o  : But, if I try to "SET HOST" from the VAX to the PDP I get:B      %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node  G Can anyone tell me the likely cause and hopefully, the solution to thise	 problem??o   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:02:53 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p& Subject: Re: Some DECNET help please!!, Message-ID: <3CEAEE34.C5657898@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:< > But, if I try to "SET HOST" from the VAX to the PDP I get:D >      %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node  G MC NCK SHOW KNOWN OBJECTS on a VAX reveals that there is a CTERM objectu created by REMACP.  I I would therefore assume that when you do a SET HOST to a remote note, itiH tries to connect to a "CTERM" object If that object doesn't exist on the+ remote note, it would explain your message.P   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:05:12 -0400e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>& Subject: Re: Some DECNET help please!!6 Message-ID: <1020521210226.16820F-100000@Ives.egh.com>  + On Tue, 21 May 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote:r   > 6 > I am having a what I hope is a minor DECNET problem. > F > First, I am running VMS 7.1 on a VAX 4000 and RSTS/E on a PDP-11/44.* > I am running DECNET Phase_IV on the VAX. > * > I can "SET HOST" from the PDP to itself.* > I can "SET HOST" from the VAX to itself.+ > I can "SET HOST" from the PDP to the VAX.e > < > But, if I try to "SET HOST" from the VAX to the PDP I get:D >      %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node > I > Can anyone tell me the likely cause and hopefully, the solution to this  > problem??t    ) $ set host/application_protocol=rterm PDP   C RTPAD (the VMS "set host" program) apparently used to automatically C fall back to RTERM when CTERM didn't work, but it lost this abilityo at some point.   > bill >    -- r John Santosc Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 20:24:40 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: Some DECNET help please!!3 Message-ID: <yVDB+jwCwbAO@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  m In article <20020521200347.H27786-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> writes:b > 6 > I am having a what I hope is a minor DECNET problem. > F > First, I am running VMS 7.1 on a VAX 4000 and RSTS/E on a PDP-11/44.* > I am running DECNET Phase_IV on the VAX. > * > I can "SET HOST" from the PDP to itself.* > I can "SET HOST" from the VAX to itself.+ > I can "SET HOST" from the PDP to the VAX.r > < > But, if I try to "SET HOST" from the VAX to the PDP I get:D >      %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node > I > Can anyone tell me the likely cause and hopefully, the solution to thisr > problem??i  ? I don't know much about RSTS DECnet, but it is possible that its? might be taking short cuts (not requiring the object be up) for ! the internal version of SET HOST.U  ? How about other objects ?  Can you perform a FAL copy involving ) the RSTS machine initiated from the VAX ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:47:16 -0400y( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>& Subject: Re: Some DECNET help please!!B Message-ID: <20020521214221.I27786-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  ' On Tue, 21 May 2002, John Santos wrote:s  - > On Tue, 21 May 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote:r >) > >a8 > > I am having a what I hope is a minor DECNET problem. > >d> > > But, if I try to "SET HOST" from the VAX to the PDP I get:F > >      %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node > >c >k+ > $ set host/application_protocol=rterm PDP  > E > RTPAD (the VMS "set host" program) apparently used to automaticallyeE > fall back to RTERM when CTERM didn't work, but it lost this abilitya > at some point. >2  F That's what I like about this group.  Even with all the strange thingsE that get discussed here when it come time for a real problem there is H likely no greater collection of DEC knowledge to be found anywhere else.  I John had the answer. But I also thank everyone else.  Now I not only haveoE a solution, but I know why it didn't work.  And, even after all these G years I learned something else about the PDP-11 (I had never run DECNETt on a PDP before this!)  * All the best and thanks again to everyone.   bill   -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:22:08 -0400f  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>& Subject: Re: Some DECNET help please!!4 Message-ID: <1020521231826.353A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  + On Tue, 21 May 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote:p  ) > On Tue, 21 May 2002, John Santos wrote:r > / > > On Tue, 21 May 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote:  > >m > > >s: > > > I am having a what I hope is a minor DECNET problem. > > >b@ > > > But, if I try to "SET HOST" from the VAX to the PDP I get:H > > >      %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node > > >i > >t- > > $ set host/application_protocol=rterm PDPV > >eG > > RTPAD (the VMS "set host" program) apparently used to automaticallyhG > > fall back to RTERM when CTERM didn't work, but it lost this abilityw > > at some point. > >  > H > That's what I like about this group.  Even with all the strange thingsG > that get discussed here when it come time for a real problem there is J > likely no greater collection of DEC knowledge to be found anywhere else. > K > John had the answer. But I also thank everyone else.  Now I not only havesG > a solution, but I know why it didn't work.  And, even after all thesewI > years I learned something else about the PDP-11 (I had never run DECNET- > on a PDP before this!) > , > All the best and thanks again to everyone. >  > bill  @ I'm just glad you didn't ask about the other direction - NET.TSKB vs. NETUNS.TSK, because I don't remember ;-)  I do remember alwaysB renaming NET.TSK to NETSUP.TSK and NETUNS.TSK to NET.TSK., so thatB SET HOST (on RSTS/E) would use it by default, but I can't rememberE why.  Maybe it is needed to talk to Phase V?  If I ever get my PDP-11-$ working again, I'll figure it out...   --   John Santosn Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 12:47:52 -0700 From: horned_1@hotmail.com (H1)t# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!b= Message-ID: <8cb5b66b.0205211147.18887020@posting.google.com>o  d "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<XiPF8.2786$zV.59679@sccrnsc02>...< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CE6C8A8.D88E9885@videotron.ca... > > "Main, Kerry" wrote:N > > > Yep, and here is a pointer to just a few of the Cust's and ISV's jumping > > > on the IPF bandwagon:  > >  > >AH > > Mr Main, I do not know about the rest of customers, but to me, those
 >  attempsL > > from Compaq to show customers who supported the murder of Alpha actually >  hurttM > > Compaq more than it helped. It was very obvious spin control, and one hasg >  to:N > > wonder what Compaq had to do for those customers to agree to be associated( > > with the Compaq prepared statements. > >5N > > Secondly, as far as ISVs are concerned, I think that HP will have to startM > > from scratch following the HP announcements of product roadmaps.  Will HPm >  worksK > > to get Oracle to port its applications, or will HP be happy with Oraclen >  just # > > porting the database back end ?e > H > Is that a rhetorical question, or what. FYI HWP was very interested inK > acquiring TruCluster technology ) AdvFS, DLM, cluster file system, shared L > root, etc) long before the merger or the Alphacide ever took place. Oracle, > tipped HWP off during the Huron project...  D Observation:  It's has nothing to do with marketplace, technology or people.i@ It's about the stinking money, everything else is a distraction.  5 The Carly and Curly types are thinking about #1 only.e  E If you had the chance to give yourself 15 million dollars or not whatP
 would you do?7  # Compaq was sunk and now HP is sunk..  0 Compaq was producing CRAP for the past 3 years. F Compaq PCs used to be a recommended A+ brand and now people buy Dells.> Compaq servers used to be what you bought and now its anything  else...Dells come to mind again. Compaq notebooks...bleech...  .> HP PCs were commodity crap but at least they had the printers.> HP had viable lines in the mid and high range which Compaq had squandered.P  D The combined company is less attractive as an investment then either of the the two.2  
 *soapbox off*%   H1   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:29:21 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i% Subject: Re: System manager availablee' Message-ID: <3CEAF7C6.5F0684FD@fsi.net>    Jim Agnew wrote: > B > i've thought about restuarant management...  seeing my customersB > appreciate and eat what I "program" may be a nice change.... ;-D  H I've often thought the same, but the wife doesn't want to be in the food service biz.   -- I David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems! http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:56:23 GMTl1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)a% Subject: Re: System manager availablet< Message-ID: <bVCG8.114580$Q42.6010154@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  0 David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@fsi.net) wrote: : Jim Agnew wrote: : > D : > i've thought about restuarant management...  seeing my customersD : > appreciate and eat what I "program" may be a nice change.... ;-D : J : I've often thought the same, but the wife doesn't want to be in the food : service biz. : B Perhaps operating a boarding house for those who can't afford more conventional housing:   H    http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E33%257E510226,00.html5    Laid-off tech, telecom workers embrace job centerst  I   "...But the job that will grow most in the future may be disappointing -K    to those white-collar workers accustomed to $80,000 to $100,000 salariesS    of the dot-com heyday.:  C    Most of Colorado's job growth over the next six years will be in4G    fields like retail sales, office clerks and cashiers - jobs that pays    less than $21,490 a year..."   5 A lot of the jobs in this table will be lower-paying:,  3    http://stats.bls.gov/news.release/ecopro.t03.htmcK    Table 3a. Industries with the fastest wage and salary employment growth,U    2000-2010    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailo   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:11:23 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>dS Subject: TCPIP 5.3 (was: RE: Traditional VMS NFS names vs. Extended Filename Parse)u; Message-ID: <01KI02XFYC0Y96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   E >ISTR they are skipping V5.2 in the version numbering and V5.3 is in s >external field test.   : 5.2 was COE only.  Normal folks will jump from 5.1 to 5.3.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 May 2002 11:05:37 -0700/ From: kevin_heikkila@yahoo.com (Kevin Heikkila)e5 Subject: Re: TCPIP$PRINTCAP.DAT/UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT fileA< Message-ID: <b64ef43.0205211005.7fc5f995@posting.google.com>  s kevin_heikkila@yahoo.com (Kevin Heikkila) wrote in message news:<b64ef43.0205171134.42d55c39@posting.google.com>...pE > Does anyone have DCL code that will, add queues to the PRINTCAP.DAT E > file or delete queues from the PRINTCAP.DAT file? I know that I canIH > manually edit the file and do this, but I would like to add the queues* > using DCL (I don't wish to use LPRSETUP)    O I'm trying to find an way for operators to create/delete UCX print queues and In@ would like to incorporate anything that I do into a menu system.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 May 2002 20:07:24 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)c( Subject: Re: Unix on VaxStation 4000 90A, Message-ID: <ace9ds$2fre$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  + In article <acdkt5$3qs$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>,J=  "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov> writes: N |> There was a VAX ULTRIX, but it might have been killed before the VAXstation |> 4000/90A came out.   9 Ultris-32 did not support the 4000 series that I know of.)  IL |>                    In any case, unless you really want the ULTRIX dialectO |> of UNIX, perhaps to run a specific ULTRIX-dependent program, I can't imagine  |> any use for it today.  5 Ultrix-11 is still the best Unix for the PDP-11.  :-)e   |> lN |> Maintaining an operating system port for an architecture takes work.  ThereO |> have been rumors off and on about a VAX port of Linux, but none that I wouldy |> take seriously. |> JM |> There are three popular versions of BSD, FreeBSD being the only one portedbN |> to a lot of architectures, including VAX, including the VAXstation 4000/90,8 |> /90A, and /96.  See http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/vax/.   FreeBSD != NetBSD.  F FreeBSD does not run on the VAX and likely, never will.  NetBSD, whileG supporting the VAX 4000 processors did not support DSSI the last time IY looked.0   |>  N |> Be careful before you spend money.  By the time you bulk up memory and diskM |> on an old computer, you might be paying more to run a minority port of BSD.L |> on a slow CPU than you would pay for mainstream BSD or Linux on a new PC.  F But they don't have the class of a VAX.  Or a PDP for that matter. :-)  2 A 4000 will do a good job of running VMS, however.   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   u   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 05:05:50 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Vision vs. incompetence:  another bit of historical perspectiveA Message-ID: <OGFG8.84355$e66.7544942@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>u  H A recent interchange in comp.arch about the likelihood that EV8 actuallyI would have appeared on (its last) schedule in 2004 sent me on a trip downsK memory lane in The Register archives - specifically, what a search on 'ev8'a
 turned up.  K It turns out that I was correct in my contention that EV8 had already taken K its expectable overall schedule slip (hence the assertion that it would noti> appear on time because no other Alpha generations ever did wasK inapplicable - since it had already slipped by at least the normal amount). H In early 1999 The Register reported Compaq's expectation (even after theK decision to shove lock-step support into Alpha - though the consequences of K this may not yet have been reflected in schedules) that EV7 would appear in F Y2K and EV8 in 2001.  The 2001 EV8 date even appeared as late as a Y2KK Register article, and an early 2002 date for EV8 was mentioned late in Y2K.a  I Of course, this was in the context of a 1 GHz EV68 appearing in late 1999TH (later, late Y2K).  Funny how *all* Alpha development got really, reallyK sluggish about 3 years ago, isn't it?  Samsung supposedly already had 1 GHzeL Alphas running in 1999, but somehow they took two more years to get out intoL the market.  And in the same time period EV7 slipped from early 2000 to lateJ 2002 (reportedly at least largely due to cutbacks and demoralization), and$ EV8 from 2001 to early 2002 to 2004.  J Now, 1999 was when Curly and Robison were (as Robison stated in his recentB Register interview) starting to decide how best to terminate AlphaK development - at about the same moment that Bill Heil and Jesse Lipcon were E publishing Compaq's earnest expression of long-term commitment to theTL platform.  Which makes the sudden lack of any Alpha development urgency (andK the cancellation of NT on Alpha, and consequently Win64 on Alpha) much moretK understandable, but at the same time makes the lies about Alpha's inabilitytK to retain its performance lead over Itanic (which seems to be between 2 andiL 3 years now and would be even greater if the slow-down hadn't occurred) that much more blatant.  F Another reminder the Register archives brought to light was Pfeiffer'sI vision for Alpha - which the brouhaha during the DEC acquisition may have K obscured somewhat.  Pfeiffer was laying the groundwork for exactly the kind:@ of offensive that many in comp.os.vms have long been advocating:F positioning Alpha as an alternate 'industry-standard' platform for theK 64-bit world in direct competition with Itanic (which was already beginningnD to look vulnerable back then:  "Alpha is at least two years ahead ofK Merced" - Pfeiffer, June, 1998).  NT and Win64 on Alpha were integral parts D of that offensive, as was Tru64 - and while one could debate whetherL Pfeiffer truly appreciated VMS he certainly gave it far better exposure thanL Palmer before him or Curly later and was thus likely open to being educated.J Pfeiffer's post-acquisition statements (as contrasted with pre-acquisitionL comments) indeed reflected an increased appreciation for the platform he hadJ bought - which would have boded well for Alpha's future had he remained atK the helm (especially after Alpha had Win64 to itself for close to two years L before Merced even appeared - not that its appearance seems to have actually
 mattered).  I And Pfeiffer stood head and shoulders above bean-counters like Palmer and K Capellas.  He captained Compaq's turn-around starting in 1991 and its latertF explosive growth, and seemed ready to do the same with the DEC assets.G Unfortunately, this strategy appears not to have been acceptable to BeneI Rosen and the other Compaq directors - which is the basis for the 'visiono( vs. incompetence' in this topic's title.  H There were rumors at the time (at least according to other, non-RegisterI articles that surfaced during my excursion today) that Rosen wasn't happyrH with Pfeiffer's handling of Compaq.  It is true that Dell was overtakingJ Compaq in the PC product space at that time, but subsequent events make it@ clear that if Pfeiffer was concentrating at least as much on hisL higher-margin server and enterprise business (as he appeared to be) this wasH *exactly* the right course of action to have been taking.  And while theK Dell threat was real in the PC end of the business, it hardly seems to haverK alarmed Compaq investors:  Compaq's stock hit an all-time high of $51.25 in1> January, 1999 - when the Dell threat was already very visible.  E Of course, Curly didn't succeed in meeting the Dell challenge either,lK despite three years' additional time to work on it - and while throwing the L core of his enterprise business (except Tandem) into the toilet.  And duringK that period (since January, 1999, during which the Dow vacillated and woundoL up rising over 10% and the NASDAQ vacillated and wound up falling about 25%), Compaq stock lost close to 80% of its value.  F Now the Compaq BoD is history, but Curly's smiling, lying, incompetentI countenance still graces the heights of HP's hierarchy.  And according tonJ both him and Carly they're just two peas in a pod, so one shouldn't expect7 significant change from the past three years at Compaq.m   Enjoy.   - bill  L P.S.  For more on Eckhard's plans for Alpha, try a Google search on "Eckhard> Pfeiffer" and search within the results for Alpha.  Or drop by www.alphant.com/news.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:01:22 GMTv* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>- Subject: Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?e5 Message-ID: <210520021555573883%paul.anderson@hp.com>e  5 In article <3CE9D38F.57C370F6@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   @ > What is the mission/role of DCPS in terms of printing on VMS ?  D DCPS provides formatting (such as number-up, layup, page orientation> and "list" format), conversion (various languages converted to= PostScript), error handling and printer feature selection forh PostScript printers.  J > Does DCPS actually provide the communications layer ? (TCPIP, serial are > provided by VMS, right ?)d  / DCPS does not provide the communications layer.   M > I know that DCPS provides conversion from various file types to postscript.h  E ANSI, PCL 4, Proprinter, Tektronix 4010/4014 and DDIF bitonal images.C  H > But what else does DCPS actually do that isn't provided by the vanilla > queue manager ?l  G I assume you mean a vanilla print symbiont, such as LPD, Telnet, LAT orl PRTSYM.t  @ > As I understand it, DCPS doesn't do font management, correct ?   Correct.  H > DCPS doesn't handle ppd files to learn about a printer's capabilities, > correct ?-  ; Correct.  Printer information is hardcoded in the symbiont.n  M > I am just trying to understand why DCPS would have to be "printer specific"5P > instead of "we can support any postscript printer provided you setup the right* > ppd file or library modules" philosophy.  G Given enough engineering effort, this could be done.  There would still F be printers that were not well-behaved or wouldn't communicate well orF implement PostScript correctly or had some other limitations.  Some ofG those issues could be solved by "dumbing down" DCPS so that it wouldn't @ listen for printer errors or know when a job has been printed orE validate the user's choices against the actual state of the printer. bF This is how other symbionts work:  open a printer connection, send theE file to the printer, close the printer connection and hope the job is D printed the way you wanted.  DCPS adds more robust features; whetherD any particular customer cares about any of these features is another matter.b  B Remember that well-behaved bi-directional printers work today with? DCPS.  About the only missing features for these "unrecognized"iG printers are tray selection and sending PCL to the printer's native PCLl interpreter.  F We are always looking for ways to increase the number of printers DCPS	 supports.k   Paul   -- y  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringi   Hewlett-Packard Companyr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:26:14 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>T- Subject: Re: What is the exact role of DCPS ?/, Message-ID: <3CEAC982.A4CE44A5@videotron.ca>   Paul Anderson wrote:1 > DCPS does not provide the communications layer.   M But if VMS gains USB communications, wouldn't DCPS have to be equipped with atN shareable image used by the symbiont to send/receive data to the printer ? (jnS the same way that it has shareable images to serial, appletalk etc communications).g  J > > DCPS doesn't handle ppd files to learn about a printer's capabilities,
 > > correct ?e > = > Correct.  Printer information is hardcoded in the symbiont.c  M I realise that in the good old days of proprietary Digital, having it embeded3K in the symbion't code was good because you could ensure that it worked onlyrF with Digital printers, and I guess this is how DCPS has its roots now.  I But these days, shouldn't DCPS have a very vanilla symbiont with seperatec0 support files/library modules for each printer ?  K If you used PPDs with, say a logical  for a queue pointing to the PPD file, N not only could DCPS use the PPD to find out how to set paper tray etc etc, butK also this logical could then be used by applications when they generate theo postscript for a queue.a  L In the long term (if there is to be a long term for VMS), it would also makeM your life much easier since adding support for a printer would be far easier,f* not needing a new version of the symbiont.  I > Given enough engineering effort, this could be done.  There would stilljH > be printers that were not well-behaved or wouldn't communicate well or@ > implement PostScript correctly or had some other limitations.   L But surely there could be options that would define how much interaction youL want DCPS to do. If you have a dump printer that can't provide the number ofH pages, then there could be an option to tell DCPS not to bother with theK number of pages for instance (or be it automatic when DCPS doesn't find thel( info in the PPD or in a library module.)  K Not that the Adobe Postscript printer driver on the MAC is capable of smart1L interaction with any printer with a valid PPD. So this should technically beN possible on VMS as well, unless, of course, VMS is inferior to the MAC :-) :-) :-) :-)o  M The main advantage of DCPS supporting PPDs would be that it would require faruK less work at your end to add supported printers since manufacturers of real.< postscript printers will provide PPD files with the printer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:22:42 -0700q, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>7 Subject: Where are the files for the debugger PC clientt4 Message-ID: <ace39j$ot9d0$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  H Debugger manual says:  "The system administrator should move the OpenVMSK debug client kits from the OpenVMS distribution media to a place accessible  to PC users"  I I looked though the layered product cd's and the vms 7.2-1 disk and can'te find anything.  : The files are like:  [DEBUG_CLIENTS011.KIT]DEBUGX86010.EXE   Any help appreciated.e   Jimt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:46:04 -0400 , From: "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com>; Subject: Re: Where are the files for the debugger PC clientP/ Message-ID: <uel56ml30lphc5@corp.supernews.com>-   They are on the CD labelled    OpenVMS Version 7.32 (Alpha and VAX)L Layered Products   Volume label: VMS073LP   Scott:  7 "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message0. news:ace39j$ot9d0$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de...J > Debugger manual says:  "The system administrator should move the OpenVMSB > debug client kits from the OpenVMS distribution media to a place
 accessible > to PC users" >eK > I looked though the layered product cd's and the vms 7.2-1 disk and can't' > find anything. >o< > The files are like:  [DEBUG_CLIENTS011.KIT]DEBUGX86010.EXE >o > Any help appreciated.  >v > Jiml >u >g   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 02:13:22 GMT.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?r' Message-ID: <3CEB0216.482BD454@fsi.net>g   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Phillip Helbig wrote:o > >0J > > > So right now I'd choose between Linux, Solaris, AIX, and IRIX, but IG > > > can't recommend any one of those over any other.  You just get toa5 > > > choose between which problems you want to have.s > >nH > > In my experience, AIX is the best of the above, at least from a userH > > point of view.  (Keep in mind that, in comparing unixes, you need toC > > look at the user, programmer, and system-manager point of view.2K > > Similarities, strengths etc in one area might not translate to the samey > > in other areas.) > H > Which is bizarre. IBM are ready to junk AIX (which I believe is a moreC > manageable UNIX) as soon as linux offers what AIX does. Oh, it'llb: > maintain it for those that want it, but interesting, no?  H Hhmmm... Just guessing here, but they maybe see the potential for an AIX0 look-alike that is not limited to IBM platforms.  B ...sort of like OpenVMS-IA32 would have been, had it ever emerged.   --   David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:01:56 -0400R- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?s, Message-ID: <3CEB2643.7F363851@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > Hhmmm... Just guessing here, but they maybe see the potential for an AIX2 > look-alike that is not limited to IBM platforms.  M I think that the computer manufacturers do not yet know what to do with LinuxaD and want to keep their options opened by supporting it just in case.  L One option is to give Linux away for free, but sell your proprietary add-onsI such as clustering etc. The other is to make your proprietary Unix "Linux G compatible" and offer it as a more robust, better documented and better > supported solution that includes stuff such as clustering etc.  K The way I see it, IBM's venture into Linux also had a goal to show that IBMeM could move quickly and that IBM wasn't just "legacy" systems and that its 360"A computers could run Linux with an impressive number of instances.e  K Companies understand that if they offer a low cost entry solution, when the0M customer grows, he may be forced to upgrade to a "commercial" unix and if the N vendor has built a good relationship with the customer, the customer will stayM with that vendor. (something missing with VMS whose vendor was not interestedn  in acquiring low end customers).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 00:13:25 +0100g' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>t/ Subject: Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?n2 Message-ID: <220520020013254330%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  D In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEHBFAAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:o  A > You can get a copy at http://www.pottsoft.com/home/pds/pds.htmle > = Phil asked me to point out that it is still mirrored here tooP( http://www.yrl.co.uk/~phil/pds/pds.html   F One of Phil's many parting gifts to YRL. Check out his STL tute at the same addresses   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:56:55 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l/ Subject: Re: Why no WHOIS with TCPIP services ?m' Message-ID: <3CEAFE3B.72D28791@fsi.net>t   Matt Muggeridge wrote: > 3 > A quick search in altavista took me to this site:P, > http://www.netsol.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois. > L > There hasn't been any substantial call for whois and if there were I wouldG > be curious why they don't use the web for getting the info they need.s  H VMS folks tend to need things that can be done from DCL and/or in batch.  G Partly why HSZPAD$SCSITERM tends to live on in some sites, and why some 4 folks are still nursing HSDSA-SCRIPT on CI clusters.   -- - David J. Dachtera, dba DJE Systems5 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 05:08:05 GMT+ From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu>n Subject: Re: Worth a readi, Message-ID: <acf93l$bvk$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  6 David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:  2 > In the V4.0 and V4.1 days of UCX, didn't Digital, > partner with Process on the development of > that IP stack?  H I thought they had actually gone so far as to sell off the UCX IP stack,I and ended up buying it back after the merger with CompaQ.  Friend of mineeF ended up going to Process as part of that deal.  Had found another job# by the time it went back to CompaQ.a   Joe Heimannr   > David R. Beattyr  5 > On Thu, 16 May 2002 11:11:11 -0400, "Brian Tillman" . > <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:  ! >>>I just came across this today.v >>5 >>They should have outsourced it to Process Software.2   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.281 ************************