1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 23 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 283       Contents:2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? Re: ANN: MGPCX update available  Re: ANN: MGPCX update available J Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64 (was: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)) CSWS and RADIUS * Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long) Deleting intrusion records... ! Re: Deleting intrusion records... ! Re: Deleting intrusion records...  Re: Diskeeper Usage ( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?( Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not? Re: End of an era.- Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning % Re: Getting remote host name with DCL % Re: Getting remote host name with DCL % Re: Getting remote host name with DCL % Re: Getting remote host name with DCL % Re: Getting remote host name with DCL . Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC, Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?, Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?, Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?, Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported? Re: Log file size  Re: Log file size  Re: Log file size  Re: Log file size  Management Agents and Multinet" Re: Management Agents and Multinet Re: mkisofs for Vax  Re: mkisofs for Vax  More DECNET help please!!  Re: More DECNET help please!!  Re: More DECNET help please!!  Multinet Hobbyist PAKS Re: Multinet Hobbyist PAKS Re: Multinet Hobbyist PAKS Multinet, NFS and Sun Solaris  Re: No new Alpha salesC Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts)  Re: OpenVMS times in excel Print status - Why is it so?  Re: Print status - Why is it so? Re: Reading unreadable tapes... ) RE: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture) / Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??  Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT  smtp, firewalls and NAT  Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT 4 Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help needed6 Re: VCB02-C (8 plane colour graphics) in a VAX 4705A ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 19:05:48 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? + Message-ID: <acgq6c$lhb$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>   B In article <5.1.0.14.2.20020522104922.00ab4d88@raptor.psccos.com>,(  Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:/ |> At 11:44 AM 5/22/2002, Phillip Helbig wrote: I |> > > .NOT. true!  The US is hardly mono-lingual, in that a) there is no H |> > > official language of the US, in spite of other beliefs, and b) inJ |> > > several states, for example, officials in many departments (such as; |> > > education and welfare) must be bilingual in Spanish.  |> >J |> >OK, but I think it's fair to say that most inhabitants (i.e. includingF |> >those who are not necessarily citizens) of the U.S. speak only one) |> >language, which might not be English.  |>  H |> Ummmm....hmmmmm....OK, in general, I'll grant that point.  In certainK |> areas of Los Angeles, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and in places like the K |> ethnic areas of larger cities such as New York, Denver, Boston, Chicago, D |> et al there is a definite Tower of Babel effect going on, though! |>  	 Old joke: F    What do you call a person who speaks three languages??  Trilingual.E    What do you call a person who speaks two languages??    Bilingual. D    What do you call a person who speaks one language??     American.  B And that joke has been around since at least my grade school days.  G Not something to be proud of, but then, I don't fall under any of those 
 categories.      bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 00:49:26 +0200 ' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? ( Message-ID: <3CEC2076.7BC6BC44@spam.not>   Phillip Helbig wrote:    [SNIP]  B > Sounds about right.  Even better are countries like Finland, theH > Scandinavian countries, the Low Countries etc.  The educational systemJ > is probably a bit better than in Germany and, BIG DIFFERENCE, televisionI > and cinema are usually not dubbed, whereas in Germany they usually are. E > (Dubbing, as an alternative to subtitling, was actually invented in J > southern Italy back in the 1930s since there were some illiterate peopleI > in the audience.  Thus, rather embarrassing that Germany continues with H > this practice today.  To be fair, it's not all idealism in the case ofI > non-dubbing countries: since dubbing is much more expensive, it is only 6 > worth the trouble for relatively large populations.)  6 Strange. I learned that dubbing was forced by Hitler.  Anyway, dubbing is a crime.    --  7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequence    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:36:25 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: Re: ANN: MGPCX update available3 Message-ID: <ZqSG8.30774$ze7.280427@news.chello.at>   a In article <3ceb2634.227527597@news.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes: * >MGPCX V2.2 is now available for download.  8 Is it now also capable of reading/writing ZIP floppies ?   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:23:36 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) ( Subject: Re: ANN: MGPCX update available1 Message-ID: <3cec0c2a.286397357@news.process.com>   J On Wed, 22 May 2002 19:36:25 GMT, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote:  b >In article <3ceb2634.227527597@news.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes:+ >>MGPCX V2.2 is now available for download.  > 9 >Is it now also capable of reading/writing ZIP floppies ?  > H No.  I have no ZIP drive to try to work with.  But if someone else does, the sources are provided! ;-)    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 21:05:48 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)S Subject: Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64 (was: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)) * Message-ID: <ach17c$r2p$4@web1.cup.hp.com>  W In article <21MAY200221472125@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:   H :It turns out that cross architecture booting is supported, but not fromM :a single system disk. You have to have a separate disk for each architecture G :for it to be supported. I guess that was what confused me - on several I :occasions people have asked about doing cross architecture from a single G :disk (and at least partially shared directory structure) here, only to K :receive the "unsupported but it should work if you are very, very careful"  :type reply for that case.  H   I am in the process of breaking (part of) this -- the boot blocks are G   going to provide only a single architecture.  By way of explanation,  I   the VAX and Alpha boot blocks are sufficiently compatible as to permit  E   co-residency on the disk.  With IA-64 and the EFI console, this is  F   simply not possible.  To simplify the new bootblock code and tools, J   I will be using the existing prohibition against multiple architectures =   (and against multiple OpenVMS versions) on one system disk.   D   If you choose to try to download across architectures, rather thanH   trying to boot multiple versions or multiple architectures, well, the I   system disk hackery will continue to be as unsupported and as risky as  E   it was previously -- the relative hazard level of this unsupported  )   hackery will remain roughly compatible.   J :Since the Alpha and IPF versions are supposed to have common source code,J :I don't see why they would throw out the MOP server when building IPF VMSF :or throw out the new method when building Alpha VMS. But they may notK :bother to add the new method to VAX VMS. If it is the case that the common I :code for the new method is on both IPF and Alpha but not VAX and the IPF F :"inherits" the MOP server code from the Alpha's source code, then theG :only cross architecture booting that would not work would be for a VAX H :to serve the system disk to an IPF system - everything else would work.  D   We expect to provide LANCP and DECnet MOP for existing boxes, fromE   OpenVMS on IA-64, from OpenVMS on Alpha, and from OpenVMS on VAX.   D   As for cross-architecture booting of IA-64 from Alpha, we'll look H   at that feasibility (and at customer requirements) when we get rather 4   closer to getting OpenVMS bootstrapped on IA-64.    H   We have explicitly NOT committed to providing support and testing for F   mixed-architecture clusters with VAX and IA-64 boxes -- if there is G   call for this when we get closer, we'll look at it.  We WILL continue J   to provide mixed-architecture cluster support with VAX and Alpha boxes, E   and we will also add support for clusters of IA-64 and Alpha boxes.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 12:29:38 -0700$ From: svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) Subject: CSWS and RADIUS= Message-ID: <5a85bce2.0205221129.79dcbe8f@posting.google.com>   C This question was asked about three months ago in comp.os.vms but I  need to ask it again:   ? Is it possible to add a widget to CSWS to get the web server to F authenticate against an external RADIUS server?  Has anyone done this?+  Can you share the tips and tricks with me?    Thanks,  -Scott Vieth   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 19:11:43 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long) * Message-ID: <acgqhf$r2p$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  V In article <acd3ub$1hj$1@info.service.rug.nl>, "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> writes: : 9 :"Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message = * :news:3CE4D451.5090100@xs4all.nospam.nl...I :> The new network boot will be bootp/tftp, without a shadow of doubt,=20 % :> simply because they already exist.  : 5 :I don't think bootp/tftp has the necessary security. A :Currently, only systems with the cluster password can access the 8 :disks of the server. The password is provided with MOP.I :The problem is if you give a system without the password access to the = J :system disk, it can read the cluster/password and join the cluster. This K :is dangerous in an environment where you cannot trust everyone on the LAN. F :In order to have the same security, you need extensions to bootp and L :tftp, which means that the advantage that they already exist does not hold 	 :anymore.     J   At the risk of stating the obvious, if you have untrusted stations on anJ   unencrypted LAN datalink, MOP and bootp are the least of your worries...    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 17:16:14 -0700- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) & Subject: Deleting intrusion records...= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0205221616.70e17b8a@posting.google.com>   C How can I delete intrusion records in OpenVMS V5.5-2 ? The command:   &  $ Delete/intru DRVAX5::telnet_acs0542   It doesnt work !   B Which SYSGEN parameter can I modify to disable intrusion records ?, ( I forgot this command... LGI_BRK_TMO  ???) Thanks in advance...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 01:27:40 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>* Subject: Re: Deleting intrusion records...0 Message-ID: <3CEC4466.F53D792F@blueyonder.co.uk>   Shiva MahaDeva wrote:  > E > How can I delete intrusion records in OpenVMS V5.5-2 ? The command:  > ( >  $ Delete/intru DRVAX5::telnet_acs0542 >  > It doesnt work !    What's the error message?   * Did you try quoting the intrusion source,   ' $ Delete/intru "DRVAX5::telnet_acs0542"   H as I think it is case sensitive, but its a long time since I used 5.5-2.   Regards,        --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:54:40 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) * Subject: Re: Deleting intrusion records...1 Message-ID: <3cec59ba.174944947@news.wcc.govt.nz>   F On 22 May 2002 17:16:14 -0700, contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) wrote:  D >How can I delete intrusion records in OpenVMS V5.5-2 ? The command: > ' > $ Delete/intru DRVAX5::telnet_acs0542   A You cal also try dele /intrus * which should delete all intrusion  records.# Been a long time since I used 5.5-2  >  >It doesnt work ! > C >Which SYSGEN parameter can I modify to disable intrusion records ? - >( I forgot this command... LGI_BRK_TMO  ???)  >Thanks in advance...    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:24:51 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) Subject: Re: Diskeeper Usage9 Message-ID: <DvQG8.14$Bl7.402501@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   * In article <3CEB4A9D.87FB97E0@127.0.0.1>, * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:  I >I've used BACKUP/IMAGE very effectively! I'm not sure how Oracle handles I >its native file format, but some databases, even when records are added, C >they are put into preformatted (and preallocated and defragmented) 4 >space, so continual fragmentation is not a problem.  H There are [at least!] two types of "fragmentation".  One is at the file G level; the file has multiple, disjoint extents.  This can be "fixed" by I a BACKUP/IMAGE and restore, or by using one of the defragmentor products.   I The other type of "fragmentation" is fragmentation of the data structures N that are maintained within the file by the file or database management system.F The "fix" for this is specific to the system.  e.g. for RMS files, the% CONVERT utility fixes this problem.     I Database management systems frequently optimize access by placing records K according to an algorithm that is related to the original allocated size of K the database.  If the database has grown significantly beyond its original, I alocated size, an unload/reload process may be required to re-organize it 
 optimally.   --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA 8                        Compaq is now part of the New HP!H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:17:33 GMTgL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?S8 Message-ID: <00A0E50A.BBC0EB1B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  U In article <3CEBB8E6.12D7EA27@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:u+ >Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:r >.Q >> There was a really interesting article by Malcolm Gladwell in _The New Yorker_ P >> fairly recently - or at least I read it fairly recently; I'm way behind on myQ >> periodicals - about the continued utility of paper.  (His basic point was that O >> digital media were terrific for long-term storage but that paper seems to bed) >> the best thing for working documents.)e   > K >In that case he's got it exactly backwards.  We can still read the lettersnJ >and notes of folks who lived hundreds of years ago because they committedJ >it to paper but we usually can't retrieve documents written ten years agoL >in their digital form because they are on media for which players no longer6 >exist and/or are written in long lost data formats.    K Indeed.  I should have made it clear that he was talking about the best fitlJ for human cognitive styles, rather than the best thing for actual survivalG of the information.  (Is it better to have invoices and retired reports M someplace where you can find 'em with a search engine or in a filing cabinet?PL Is it easier to get the gist of a report by flipping through the paper pages+ or trying to do the same thing with a PDF?)c     There's a glimmer ofM >hope in the deja news/Google/WayBack machine sort of digital archiving.  And J >then there's the stack of LPs up in your attack which you can't listen to? >anymore because you have not owned a record player since 1990.t >e  O Actually, I bought a record player last year, and listened to vinyl as recentlyEF as Saturday.  (Actually, I bought two record players last year but the) hand-crank portable Victrola was a gift.)H  ) Nonetheless, I certainly take your point.   I -- Alan (who has a file full of 5.25" single-density CP/M format floppiese somewhere).   O ===============================================================================i0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056rM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210aO ===============================================================================8   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 22:04:06 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h1 Subject: Re: Does UK ATC use VMS, if not why not?eH Message-ID: <qBUG8.70648$ah_.40654@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>C wrote in message news:00A0E50A.BBC0EB1B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...- >-K > -- Alan (who has a file full of 5.25" single-density CP/M format floppiesG
 > somewhere).t >nL Know anyone who can read 8" Wang word processing floppies that have passwordK protected documents on them? I have a few documents on some that I wouldn'te, mind retrieving if the cost were reasonable.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:13:14 -04000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: End of an era.,, Message-ID: <3CEBFBD9.F81746D4@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:I >    I didn't look at servers, but the initial HP IA-64 workstations werelJ >    running about $12K US.  Everybody expects price to come down as IA-64I >    becomes more popular, except AMD and Sun who expect IA-64 to wither.b  J Not everyone expects the price to go down. IA64 is HP's proprietary chip. K Unless IA64 can unmistakenly eclipse the 8086 and keep a strong advance, it.N will remain HP's proprietary chip. Dell is selling some 2 ghz wintel boxes for a few hundred bucks.  F If the two architectures keep playing catch-up to each other with 8086J outperforming IA64 one day, and IA64 outperforming the 8086 the other day,W then there clearly won't be any incentive to go IA64 which would be far more expensive.s  K And that leaves only those proprietary HP systems such as HP-UX, Tandem andwF VMS if it survives. The question then becomes: When comparing Intel vsL Digital's abilities to improve IA64 vs Alpha for low volumes, can Intel keepJ on producing new more advanced versions of IA64 with development costs lowK enough to make IA64 more price competitive than Digital was able to do with| Alpha (also low volume) ?s  L In other words, if Digital was more efficient than Intel at advancing Alpha,M then there is little chance that Intel will be able to keep on advancing IA64l- AND reduce its costs below what Alpha costed.-  J IA64 will not be industry standard, unless Intel trademarks the expression7 "industry standard" and applies it to all its products.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:39:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning* Message-ID: <3CEC0203.D2ABD2@videotron.ca>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote: F > cryptography, I very much doubt that they are fully aware of all the4 > destruction they could cause in the digital world.  N The impact would be much greater in the USA. If Ossama were able to find a wayN to really discredit Microsoft with enough attacks on companies that use MS forN serious stuff, Microsoft's stock might thumble down to the penny stocks and beL de-listed from Nasdaq. Think of the economic impact to the pension funds who6 invested in a company with such poor quality products.  N Think of the impact on wintel companies such as Dell, Gateway and HP who wouldF find themselves naked without products to sell. (Apple would be a good* investment for Ossama in such a scenario).  J Ossama may have done visusally spectacular damage to the WTC, but where isN succeeded most is in scaring the USA of further attacks and getting the USA toF go nuts trying to protect itself. (such as preventing nail clippers on airplanes).   I NASDAQ runs its web server on Windows. That would be a great candidate toyM attack and would really be egg of  NASDAQ and Microsoft's faces, discreditings
 two US icons.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:53:55 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning8 Message-ID: <00A0E520.93F1BF46@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Z In article <3CEC0203.D2ABD2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >"Doc.Cypher" wrote:G >> cryptography, I very much doubt that they are fully aware of all the25 >> destruction they could cause in the digital world.G >EO >The impact would be much greater in the USA. If Ossama were able to find a waytO >to really discredit Microsoft with enough attacks on companies that use MS for O >serious stuff, Microsoft's stock might thumble down to the penny stocks and beZM >de-listed from Nasdaq. Think of the economic impact to the pension funds whod7 >invested in a company with such poor quality products.a > O >Think of the impact on wintel companies such as Dell, Gateway and HP who would/G >find themselves naked without products to sell. (Apple would be a good-+ >investment for Ossama in such a scenario).1   Well, Linux.   >fK >Ossama may have done visusally spectacular damage to the WTC, but where iswO >succeeded most is in scaring the USA of further attacks and getting the USA tocG >go nuts trying to protect itself. (such as preventing nail clippers onu
 >airplanes). i > J >NASDAQ runs its web server on Windows. That would be a great candidate toN >attack and would really be egg of  NASDAQ and Microsoft's faces, discrediting >two US icons.  K James Allchin appears to have just testified - with a straight face - that pK the proposed antitrust-violation remedy of sharing Windows source code with M the states that are suing it would be a national security risk since it wouldpH expose serious security holes in the OS, which is being used in various  military applications.  K This is curiously plausible, except for the obvious question of _why_ it's iK being used in various military applications.  But I never heard crappy code ' quality used as a legal defense before.s   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================n0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056cM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210yO ===============================================================================m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:59:47 GMTkL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning8 Message-ID: <00A0E521.65BC8222@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   In article <00A0E520.93F1BF46@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: [ >In article <3CEC0203.D2ABD2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:t >>"Doc.Cypher" wrote:sH >>> cryptography, I very much doubt that they are fully aware of all the6 >>> destruction they could cause in the digital world. >>P >>The impact would be much greater in the USA. If Ossama were able to find a wayP >>to really discredit Microsoft with enough attacks on companies that use MS forP >>serious stuff, Microsoft's stock might thumble down to the penny stocks and beN >>de-listed from Nasdaq. Think of the economic impact to the pension funds who8 >>invested in a company with such poor quality products. >>P >>Think of the impact on wintel companies such as Dell, Gateway and HP who wouldH >>find themselves naked without products to sell. (Apple would be a good, >>investment for Ossama in such a scenario). > 
 >Well, Linux.   L Expanding on this a little bit: the PC companies would now be in a position,M without Microsoft to offend, of being able to deliver preconfigured  Linux orxI xBSD desktops and laptops running workable office application suites, andlJ without paying the Microsoft tax on their PCs.  (StarOffice is "workable";J Corel had a functional suite; Lotus could run under WINE,  most likely.)    M So there'd be some serious adjustment if there were general revulsion against-N MS software, but it wouldn't necessarily be catastrophic for hardware vendors.  M On the other hand, if a new, crippling virus every week doesn't even dissuade-M people from running Outlook, why should terrorist attacks do it?  They can betI spun as being the ingenious terrorist's fault, not the crappy OS's fault.8   -- Alano  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056UM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================9   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:35:16 GMTR1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)-6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning; Message-ID: <oaUG8.30471$9z5.2293169@typhoon.austin.rr.com>w  K Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr (winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU) wrote:C  H : James Allchin appears to have just testified - with a straight face - I : that the proposed antitrust-violation remedy of sharing Windows source  F : code with the states that are suing it would be a national security H : risk since it would expose serious security holes in the OS, which is . : being used in various military applications. : H : This is curiously plausible, except for the obvious question of _why_ 5 : it's being used in various military applications.  e :   ! You'll have to ask the U.S. Navy:   0    http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html    Navy carrier to run Win 2000u  D This is the only Navy web site that mentions the Smart Ship program:  @    http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/allhands/ah0997/pg20.html!    All Hands, Sep 97 - Smart Ship   A A couple of stories about the U.S.S. Yorktown being towed to portr$ after software problems disabled it:  8    http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.html1    Scientific American: Technology and Business: t     Rough Sailing For Smart Ships  7    http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htmi<    Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailo   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 22:35:38 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning3 Message-ID: <uuNMLkEA4bmy@eisner.encompasserve.org>A   In article <00A0E520.93F1BF46@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:L\ > In article <3CEC0203.D2ABD2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >>"Doc.Cypher" wrote:mH >>> cryptography, I very much doubt that they are fully aware of all the6 >>> destruction they could cause in the digital world. >>P >>The impact would be much greater in the USA. If Ossama were able to find a wayP >>to really discredit Microsoft with enough attacks on companies that use MS forP >>serious stuff, Microsoft's stock might thumble down to the penny stocks and beN >>de-listed from Nasdaq. Think of the economic impact to the pension funds who8 >>invested in a company with such poor quality products. >>P >>Think of the impact on wintel companies such as Dell, Gateway and HP who wouldH >>find themselves naked without products to sell. (Apple would be a good, >>investment for Ossama in such a scenario). >  > Well, Linux. >  >>L >>Ossama may have done visusally spectacular damage to the WTC, but where isP >>succeeded most is in scaring the USA of further attacks and getting the USA toH >>go nuts trying to protect itself. (such as preventing nail clippers on >>airplanes).  >>K >>NASDAQ runs its web server on Windows. That would be a great candidate tolO >>attack and would really be egg of  NASDAQ and Microsoft's faces, discreditingI >>two US icons.  > M > James Allchin appears to have just testified - with a straight face - that eM > the proposed antitrust-violation remedy of sharing Windows source code with O > the states that are suing it would be a national security risk since it would J > expose serious security holes in the OS, which is being used in various  > military applications. > M > This is curiously plausible, except for the obvious question of _why_ it's  M > being used in various military applications.  But I never heard crappy codef) > quality used as a legal defense before.  >   @ 	I would argue the quality of the code itself is probably prettyE 	good.  It really is a design issue.  People use paint and one person , 	is a painter another person is an artist.     				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 12:11:33 -06002 From: cochrane@encompasserve.org (Arthur Cochrane). Subject: Re: Getting remote host name with DCL3 Message-ID: <gN1E$HiVI$lY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <3CEBAE1D.4D063AC8@spam.not>, Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> writes: > Hi DCL specialists > F > There are two clients of a VMS 6.2 host accessing it interactively. K > The VMS client is using SET HOST while the other client is using TELNET. l > J > To SET DISPLAY /CREATE /NODE=<name> I get the other client's IP address I > and use UCX SHOW HOST /ADDRESS=<ip_addr> /OUTPUT=<filename> to convert i= > the IP address to its host name by parsing the output file.b > , > Is there a better way to do this with DCL?& > Preferably without a temporary file. > 0 > VMS 6.2 and UCX 3.3 are installed on the host. >  > TIAr > 
 > Christof >  > -- c9 > moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequencee   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:26:10 -0400p' From: Jack Patteeuw <jpatteeu@ford.com>m. Subject: Re: Getting remote host name with DCL( Message-ID: <3CEBE2C2.1DCC89D2@ford.com>  I > To SET DISPLAY /CREATE /NODE=<name> I get the other client's IP address H > and use UCX SHOW HOST /ADDRESS=<ip_addr> /OUTPUT=<filename> to convert= > the IP address to its host name by parsing the output file.     , This works on V7.2 when you rsh/rexec to VMS     setaO display/create/node='f$element(0,":",f$trnlnm("SYS$REM_NODE"))'/transport=tcpipT    
 Jack Patteeuwn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:27:07 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> . Subject: Re: Getting remote host name with DCL, Message-ID: <3CEBFF1A.7D30AA67@videotron.ca>   Brass Christof wrote:wI > To SET DISPLAY /CREATE /NODE=<name> I get the other client's IP address H > and use UCX SHOW HOST /ADDRESS=<ip_addr> /OUTPUT=<filename> to convert= > the IP address to its host name by parsing the output file.h  3 how about set display/create/node=<ip address> ????i  M If you really must, you could write a small program that takes an IP address,iN uses the sockets to send a request to DNS for a reverse lookup and then sets a symbol before exiting.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 00:45:18 +0200l' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>t. Subject: Re: Getting remote host name with DCL' Message-ID: <3CEC1F7E.F79DE14@spam.not>e   Thanks!e  5 Problem solved. Using the IP address does the trick. i/ Translation into the host name isn't necessary.t   -- i7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequencet   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:10:46 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>B. Subject: Re: Getting remote host name with DCL* Message-ID: <3CEC69A0.4050405@qsl.network>   Brass Christof wrote:  > Hi DCL specialists > F > There are two clients of a VMS 6.2 host accessing it interactively. K > The VMS client is using SET HOST while the other client is using TELNET. t > J > To SET DISPLAY /CREATE /NODE=<name> I get the other client's IP address I > and use UCX SHOW HOST /ADDRESS=<ip_addr> /OUTPUT=<filename> to convert w= > the IP address to its host name by parsing the output file.e > , > Is there a better way to do this with DCL?& > Preferably without a temporary file. > 0 > VMS 6.2 and UCX 3.3 are installed on the host.  G You may want to look in the DECW directory of the OpenVMS Freeware 5.0 9D CD-ROM set.  There are some command procedures that understand both # DECNET and various TCP/IP versions.=  I They can be used with RSH/REXEC and are Session Manager / Fileview aware.-  7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/decw/    -Johnh wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlye   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 11:53:10 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECF= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205221053.1e0305f9@posting.google.com>T  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CEAC13D.937CB968@videotron.ca>...o > John Smith wrote:a [snip]M > > How can a company like HP have a division (OpenVMS) that brings in nearlyeN > > $4B annually across all hardware, software, and services offerings, NOT doA > > any substantial marketing of this product to *NEW* customers?e > J > The minute they are convinced VMS has no future, then it becomes easy toO > justify not spending any money on trying to grow an OS which will be gone and  > no chance of growth. > L > The minute your goal is to grow your windows and unix business by stealingL > VMS, MVS, OS400 etc customers, then it becomes counterproductive to try to- > grow VMS at the expense of Windows or Unix.-    E Why would you want to steal away your own VMS customers? Isn't *that*rF counterproductive? Why not try to grow all your products -- especially the proven successful ones?r     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanl" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:10:40 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>47 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC H Message-ID: <Q2SG8.69187$ah_.59510@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KI17GJVDSI984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...tJ > > If HP are not going to commit to the continued development of OpenVMS, >pG > Why ask this question when it seems that they ARE committed?  Perhapsn< > not as much as we would like, but at least to some extent. >i  I I hear what you are saying, and I suspect coming from your perspective at , the boerse it's relatively easy to say this.  I If your exchange is like most others, your funding comes from the members H and their transaction volumes, so the money you spend on systems *isn't*J really your money (I know we could have endless arguments about this). AndK national stock exchanges have a certain price-inelasticity of demand, so to-K a very real extent, your trading fees can be pretty much what you want themM to be (again we could argue)..  I Your business is in a very different place than mine in that regard. If IEK have to fund the (re)development of my stuff, it comes from my pockets, notcL my members pockets. I have no, effectively guaranteed revenue stream to fund it (again we could argue).  G So to me and my business, HP's decision to apparently not market VMS to K *new* non-VMS customers makes it more and more difficult each day for us torH stay with VMS. It's harder and harder to hire people who want to work onE VMS. I have to train them for the most part, which is an expense thatiK becomes harder and harder to recoup, whereas in the past any student that I J would hire out of university would have had at least a passing familiarityI with the operating system, if not extensive use of it via summer jobs andt work terms.m  ( This too is the real world of VMS.   :-(    - BTW: Do you know Nick de Smith? Just curious.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:03:10 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECr, Message-ID: <3CEBF97E.F413DAB0@videotron.ca>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:t8 > My position that they are listening remains unchanged.   Who is "they" ?   M -Someone at HP already convinced of VMS but has no power to do anythinga bout5 it (Marcello and below)L   or  L -Someone at HP who realises that attrition rate fore VMS is to be controlledG and will send you a nice encouraging response but with no intentions ofS actually changing their minds.  K I remember David Frobble mentioning he had gotten a nice encouraging letteroL from Winkler stating that he "had seen religion" and we should expect VMS toL be taken more seriously from now on. That may have been a comforting letter,G but in the end, Compaq didn't change a bit and continued to ignore VMS.a  N This goes back even in the Palmer era, when what used to be DECUS would send aN serious complaint to Digital, the response would be "yes, we are aware of thisM problem and intend to focus on VMS" type of response which was comforting and L raised hopes, but in the end, Digital would just do one or two token actions7 to shut us up and then revert to its former intentions.H    M Complaint letters may have forced HP to tone down Stallard's memo, but do youoP seriously think that HP changed its intentions of migrating VMS users to HP-UX ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:23:34 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECl, Message-ID: <3CEBFE44.2D9C3DD8@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote:u > J > > If HP are not going to commit to the continued development of OpenVMS, > G > Why ask this question when it seems that they ARE committed?  Perhapsn< > not as much as we would like, but at least to some extent.  N Show me a piece of paper that says that HP is committed to continue to develop' VMS on IA64 after the port is complete.n  B I have seen the commitment to continue the porting effort to IA64.H I have seen commitments to continue to develop on Alpha for a few years.? I have seen commitments to support existing customers for eons.uH But I have not seen commitment to develop on IA64 once the port is done.  F Am I being pedantic ? Perhaps. But that is because Stallard's memo wasK specific when discussing continued development of VMS ON ALPHASERVERS. As I=( recall, at least in 2 different places.   M Anyone with a clear commitment to VMS would have said that VMS would continueoH to be developped and that new versions would continue to be available onM Alphaservers until at least 200x". The specific wording from Stallard made it=X look like they were trying not to commit on IA64 development once the port was complete.  J Of course, by now, that docoment may have changed again since they have no6 problems destroying evidence of their true intentions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:48:39 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>E7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC , Message-ID: <3CEC0424.CBAB917F@videotron.ca>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:G > Why would you want to steal away your own VMS customers? Isn't *that*>H > counterproductive? Why not try to grow all your products -- especially > the proven successful ones?i  L Look at HP. In unix, its main competitor is Sun. Sun has all its eggs in oneM BIG basket. HP has some eggs in HP-UX, some in Tru64, some in Tandem and some = in VMS. None of these baskets is big enough to be impressive.k  L But move as much as possible to the one HP-UX basket, and then HP-UX becomes more impressive.  M If HP decides that its two strategic products will be HP-UX and Windows, thenuB it is normal for HP to want to grow those two as much as possible.  R Carly seems to be from the .COM era where strategy is more important than profits.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:48:48 GMTxL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECe8 Message-ID: <00A0E51F.DC8680A3@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3CEBFE44.2D9C3DD8@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Phillip Helbig wrote: >> eK >> > If HP are not going to commit to the continued development of OpenVMS,t >> dH >> Why ask this question when it seems that they ARE committed?  Perhaps= >> not as much as we would like, but at least to some extent.r >eO >Show me a piece of paper that says that HP is committed to continue to develops( >VMS on IA64 after the port is complete. >lC >I have seen the commitment to continue the porting effort to IA64. I >I have seen commitments to continue to develop on Alpha for a few years.=@ >I have seen commitments to support existing customers for eons.I >But I have not seen commitment to develop on IA64 once the port is done.l >oG >Am I being pedantic ? Perhaps. But that is because Stallard's memo wasRL >specific when discussing continued development of VMS ON ALPHASERVERS. As I) >recall, at least in 2 different places. = >=L JF, as I've said before, if they wanted to mislead us, they'd just flat out O lie.  That's what happened before (wrt Alpha commitment).  They wouldn't bother  with careful parsing.o  N In the meantime, the VMS engineers  (who haven't lied to us, as far as I know)J have told us that there'll be a common VMS code base on IPF and Alpha.  IfM they're going to continue  development on Alpha, they'll continue developmentt@ on IPF by necessity.  [Modulo qual/test of new features on IPF.]  N >Anyone with a clear commitment to VMS would have said that VMS would continueI >to be developped and that new versions would continue to be available onsN >Alphaservers until at least 200x". The specific wording from Stallard made itY >look like they were trying not to commit on IA64 development once the port was complete.  > K >Of course, by now, that docoment may have changed again since they have no27 >problems destroying evidence of their true intentions.h  N You may, distressingly, be correct about their true intentions.  But this lineH of argument isn't likely to convince many.  They publish a document; theN customers don't like it; they change it.  That sequence of events could happenC even with a computer vendor that wasn't trying to kill a much-loved97 minority-interest operating system - it proves nothing.o   -- Alann  O ===============================================================================/0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056iM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================m   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:16:18 +0200 (CEST)! From: StormWatcher@helferlein.netE7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC9D Message-ID: <301dd281b5beffdc102599d038b61f32@remailer.segfault.net>  5 NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.e8 No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.8 --------------------------------------------------------    M Complaint letters may have forced HP to tone down Stallard's memo, but do youyN seriously think that HP changed its intentions of migrating VMS users to HP-UX ?S    . The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions   -StormWatcher-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:59:52 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>p7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC H Message-ID: <sxUG8.83565$t8_.27984@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>C wrote in message news:00A0E51F.DC8680A3@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...r >cK > You may, distressingly, be correct about their true intentions.  But thiso lineJ > of argument isn't likely to convince many.  They publish a document; theI > customers don't like it; they change it.  That sequence of events coulde happenE > even with a computer vendor that wasn't trying to kill a much-lovedp9 > minority-interest operating system - it proves nothing.n >t  L Lawyers (any of them here, btw?) have a habit of dissecting every phrase and< word to arrive at a conclusion (some might say 'the truth').  J In the absence of an total unequivocal statement from Carly that says thatJ VMS will be promoted the fullness of HP's ability, or something like that,K there will be constant analysis of what they are otherwise saying. It comesnL from the old adage: "Lie to me once, shame on you. Lie to me twice, shame on me."  L I would wager that many, perhaps most, who frequent this ng have been burnedI in their careers in one way or another by the solem announcements of DEC,iH CPQ, and now HPQ, regarding Alpha and VMS. Hence the level of skepticismI regarding HP's announcement thus far and the micro-analysis of the words.i  L Most of us like to eat each day, and if we feel that staying with VMS is tooI much of a personal financial risk (ie. getting fired), then VMS will soon G have virtually no-one at customer sites promoting its use. Certainly HPmI isn't promoting its use in any meaningful way other than saying 'When you J move to unix, try HP-UX. The water's fine over here.' That's some stirring VMS marketing, don't you think?m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:22:33 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC 8 Message-ID: <ae6oeu4v6j6rgdi4he87vb6d7tce7tvpb3@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 22 May 2002 16:23:34 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >Phillip Helbig wrote: >> UK >> > If HP are not going to commit to the continued development of OpenVMS,e >> uH >> Why ask this question when it seems that they ARE committed?  Perhaps= >> not as much as we would like, but at least to some extent.e >nO >Show me a piece of paper that says that HP is committed to continue to develop ( >VMS on IA64 after the port is complete. >-  E Ya know.  It just doesn't matter what piece of paper we show you.  IftC we produced one that says *exactly* what you wanted, you'd just sayhA something like "Yeah, that's what you said about NT on Alpha, and/ about Alpha itself."  D We all know your point of view.  Hammering it in several times a dayF in this forum just makes it tedious to read.  I'd rather be discussing technical details.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqo- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:35:56 -0700-' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>27 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECo+ Message-ID: <3CEC2B5C.75211850@caltech.edu>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:I > > Why would you want to steal away your own VMS customers? Isn't *that*eJ > > counterproductive? Why not try to grow all your products -- especially > > the proven successful ones?e > N > Look at HP. In unix, its main competitor is Sun. Sun has all its eggs in oneO > BIG basket. HP has some eggs in HP-UX, some in Tru64, some in Tandem and somem? > in VMS. None of these baskets is big enough to be impressive.a > N > But move as much as possible to the one HP-UX basket, and then HP-UX becomes > more impressive.  - Easier said than done.  Convince the other OS 1 customers that they need to migrate and they willR4 consider ALL their options.  That includes also IBM,5 Sun, Windows (blech) and even Linux.  If they migrate 8 to Windows they will look long and hard at Dell and many will like what they see.  = When has it not been so?  Digital pushed VMS users to migratee: to OSF/1 and lost customers in droves.  Digital and Compaq: pushed VMS users to migrate to NT and lost more customers.   > O > If HP decides that its two strategic products will be HP-UX and Windows, thensD > it is normal for HP to want to grow those two as much as possible. >   E The vendor can dream anything he/she/it wants.  If they don't providelE a compelling business case for the customers they lose customers.  If D "the vendor sucks"  is your compelling reason to migrate off VMS how likely are you to go to HPUX?D   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:51:33 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECr, Message-ID: <3CEC3D14.DC92127A@videotron.ca>   jlsue wrote:G > Ya know.  It just doesn't matter what piece of paper we show you.  IfnE > we produced one that says *exactly* what you wanted, you'd just say=C > something like "Yeah, that's what you said about NT on Alpha, andw > about Alpha itself."    Actions speak louder than words.  M If words describing actions in the future come from a trusted source, the you- will believe them.J But when those words come from a source which has no reason to be trusted,L then you disbelieve those words until the vendor backs them up with actions.I This is especially true when the vendor refuses to say stuff publicly and@ prefers to send private emails.w  H It doesn't take Einstein to know that VMS customers have many reasons toH distrust anything coming from the vendor, especially one which, during 8N months actively avoided mentioning VMS.  HP could have taken steps to gain the? trust of VMS customers, but it chose to continue to ignore VMS.e  I If VMS is such serious business, how come it is handled as a mickey mouse ! operation by both Compaq and HP ?y   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:29:49 GMT / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)s5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?u- Message-ID: <fNAfT8fy5dNl@cuebid.zko.dec.com>r  " norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:  L > Yes, as I asked later in another way, since V7.2-2 specifically backportedJ > support for FiberChannel, what reason would there be not to complete theL > backport by reincorporating V7.3-1 features into V7.2-2, especially as oneL > of the expressed purposes of V7.2-2 backport was to protect the investmentF > of those who could not quickly go to V7.3* for whatever reason.  TheH > volume-shadowing changes have been backported to keep multiple-version( > migration-support clusters functional.  B We know that many customers are somewhat conservative in upgradingL to new versions of VMS, especially releases like, V7.1, V7.2, V7.3, thinkingM that by the time the -1 release comes out, all the bugs will have been workedhG out.  That's not how engineering views those releases, but we know thatoO perception exists.  So, with the knowledge that folks would be more comfortablerH with the V7.2-whatever versions for quite some time, there was an effortJ made to backport some features from V7.3, although, as it was pointed out,G V7.3 came out before V7.2-2.  However, the thought is that once V7.3-1 eE comes out, those conservate sites will upgrade from V7.2-2 to V7.3-1.   3 The mini-merge won't be backported to V7.3, either.a  I > I asked - and it is herein also asked - what that reason is.  No one is F > yet crying fowl.  That said, however, the comments about sacrificing > customers are not irrelevant.   J I hope that I've been able to shed some light on why the backport won't beN done.  Also note that the engineering team doesn't make these lofty decisions;D that's left to product management.  I'm not trying to pass the buck;J engineers actually like it when customers want to run their code, but as IG stated earlier, you'll need to make a case to product management if yout would like reconsideration.t   -- I  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:17:27 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?p' Message-ID: <3CEC548B.900DB420@fsi.net>s   John Santos wrote: > / > On Wed, 22 May 2002, David J. Dachtera wrote:t >  > > Rob Brooks wrote:. > > > h > > > In article <OFF40156AB.E20B313F-ON85256BC0.004833D1@metso.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes: > > > >3' > > > >  From the fibre channel slides:o > > > >oS > > > >  A V7.3-1 TIMA will later provide HSG80 mini-merge capability and that will7. > > > >  speed up merge operations quite a bit > > > >sK > > > > Will this be back-ported to V7.2-2?  (Obviously we have the classico, > > > > 3rd-party software provider holdup.) > > > ( > > > It will not be backported.  Sorry. > > + > > What would it take to make that happen?i > >tI > > What's your price? (Read: "How many more VMS sites are you willing tos > > sacrifice?") > >sL > > Executive types (read "decision makers") tend to take a dim view of such > > things.  > H > I tend to take a dim view of software that is so O/S version dependent3 > that it doesn't work across a simple O/S upgrade.m > D > V7.3 has been out for a year.  Is the 3rd party software known notC > to work with it, or has it just not been tested?  If so, did theyeD > test it with V7.2-2 (more recent than V7.3!) or are you making theC > assumption that if something is qualified with V7.2(-1?), it willsF > work fine with V7.2-x (and with ECO's), but it needs to be re-tested > for V7.x (x>2)?p  $ Say, "Food and Drug Administration".  # Say, "Department of Public Health".u   Say, "certification".f   Are there any questions?  8 I am currently upgrading a Sunquest Lab machine to theirG latest-and-greatest: under V7.2-2 on an ES40. V7.3 certification is notnH expected until circa this time next year. This upgrade I'm working on is: not expected to go into production until very late summer.   -- . David J. DachteraH dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:49:26 GMT,- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>t5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?l* Message-ID: <3CEC728B.6070207@qsl.network>   David J. Dachtera wrote: >  a& > Say, "Food and Drug Administration". > % > Say, "Department of Public Health".  >  > Say, "certification".t >  > Are there any questions? > : > I am currently upgrading a Sunquest Lab machine to theirI > latest-and-greatest: under V7.2-2 on an ES40. V7.3 certification is not J > expected until circa this time next year. This upgrade I'm working on is< > not expected to go into production until very late summer.  C If the vendor of a system is not comfortable going with the latest  > release of OpenVMS, then by the same logic they also will not I comfortable with implementing a non-manditory patch to the older release.n  G For something like this mini-merge, you really do want to have as much l quality testing as possible.   -John. wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:03:49 -0400t  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported? 4 Message-ID: <1020522224107.353A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  - On Thu, 23 May 2002, David J. Dachtera wrote:e   > John Santos wrote: > > 1 > > On Wed, 22 May 2002, David J. Dachtera wrote:u > >  > > > Rob Brooks wrote:y > > > >nj > > > > In article <OFF40156AB.E20B313F-ON85256BC0.004833D1@metso.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:	 > > > > >w) > > > > >  From the fibre channel slides: 	 > > > > >uU > > > > >  A V7.3-1 TIMA will later provide HSG80 mini-merge capability and that wills0 > > > > >  speed up merge operations quite a bit	 > > > > >sM > > > > > Will this be back-ported to V7.2-2?  (Obviously we have the classice. > > > > > 3rd-party software provider holdup.) > > > >g* > > > > It will not be backported.  Sorry. > > >o- > > > What would it take to make that happen?b > > > K > > > What's your price? (Read: "How many more VMS sites are you willing toU > > > sacrifice?") > > > N > > > Executive types (read "decision makers") tend to take a dim view of such
 > > > things.  > > J > > I tend to take a dim view of software that is so O/S version dependent5 > > that it doesn't work across a simple O/S upgrade.o > > F > > V7.3 has been out for a year.  Is the 3rd party software known notE > > to work with it, or has it just not been tested?  If so, did they6F > > test it with V7.2-2 (more recent than V7.3!) or are you making theE > > assumption that if something is qualified with V7.2(-1?), it will H > > work fine with V7.2-x (and with ECO's), but it needs to be re-tested > > for V7.x (x>2)?d > & > Say, "Food and Drug Administration". > % > Say, "Department of Public Health".u >  > Say, "certification".e >  > Are there any questions? > : > I am currently upgrading a Sunquest Lab machine to theirI > latest-and-greatest: under V7.2-2 on an ES40. V7.3 certification is notcJ > expected until circa this time next year. This upgrade I'm working on is< > not expected to go into production until very late summer. >   > Have you completely lost track of the point of this thread, or= would you like to run HSG80's with mini-merge enabled on youro/ system that requires FDA and DPH certification?a  9 If so, would they let pass a drastic change to underlying 6 stuff like the disk and port drivers and the shadowing6 driver (as listed by Rob Brooks in another followup in6 this thread), merely because the the principal version number didn't change?n  5 People who are stuck in the past due to certification 8 requirements probably can't use HSG80's (or HSV110's) or6 ES45's or anything else new...  They're also why prior7 version support exists.  Norm (the OP) clearly isn't inl3 this category, or he wouldn't be asking about doingl mini-merges on HSG80's.e    7 BTW, why if your customer (vendor?) needs to recertify,u6 did they choose to do so on V7.2-2 instead of on V7.3,' which was released earlier than V7.2-2?t  7 Is it somehow less work to recertify on a point releasea! than on a major or minor release?t  4 Maybe VMS should never release a V7.4 (or V8.0), but7 make the next release be V7.2-3 (identical in every wayo1 with V7.3-1, except for the version number string 1 printed by "show system") and all future versionst5 be both V7.2-x and V7.3-y, where x=y+2, and increasesu step without limit?    -- s John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 13:17:23 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: Re: Log file size3 Message-ID: <lTBTSnt35opR@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  b In article <tvOG8.16010$YI5.223876@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:9 > Wouldn't avoiding fragmentation be a performance issue?A >   H When performance was mentioned, I thought that they were thinking of theE time taken to extend a file (for example) 10000 times in units of one E cluster as opposed to the time taken to extend the file once by 10000=	 clusters.=   Simon.   -- =B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:32:22 +0800m+ From: "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com>b Subject: Re: Log file size* Message-ID: <acgdld$eea2@rain.i-cable.com>  E That's exactly what I want to, to pre-allocate the file size so as to  improve the performance.  G "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> ???????:3CEA6747.1ECF4850@aaa.com...a1 > Do you want to pre-allocate an empty log file ?oI > Or just make sure that there is space to grow your log file *if needed*o > ?X >SJ > Remember that VMS will extend your log file (when and if needed) as longE > as there is space on the volume (or quota for your user on the samer
 > volume). >"I > The only (?) reason to pre-allocate space would be performance, or that J > you would like to make sure that nothing else fills your disk during the > run of your detached process.t >g > Jan-Erik Sderholm.S >F >. > Kenneth wrote: > >nL > > I am using VMS7.2-1 on Alpha 8400 and I want to run a detach process and logeJ > > the output to a log file. Can I defined the allocated size for the log file?t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 00:12:12 GMT;/ From: "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: Log file size@ Message-ID: <wtWG8.1183$h_4.62792894@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>  , "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> wrote:A > That's exactly what I want to, to pre-allocate the file size sor  > as to improve the performance.  ( You can do something like the following:  5 $ run sys$system:loginout/input= myjob.com/output=nl:l  
 myjob.com:  B $ copy/allocation=10000 nl: mydata.log   ! pre-allocate 10k blocks  $ open/append logfile mydata.log  $ define/user sys$output logfile $ run myprog $ exit   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 23:11 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins), Subject: Re: Log file size- Message-ID: <22MAY200223114298@gerg.tamu.edu>n  / "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> writes...iF }That's exactly what I want to, to pre-allocate the file size so as to }improve the performance.m  % There are a variety of possibilities.e  D I don't remember what you said the source of the log file was. If itL is from something like a "SUBMIT/LOG=my.log" or "RUN/DETACHED/OUTPUT=my.log"F then only the last thing down below is going to help. The rest of this: assumes it is a file that is opened by the program itself.  D If you have control of the source, it may be as simple as specifyingC the initial allocation in the open statment in the language you aremB using (at least some, and probably most, languages support this on? VMS - some may not). For example, the Fortran open statment has F the optional "initialsize=" parameter (and an "extendsize=" to specifyA how big of a chunk to allocate if the file needs to be extended).FF C's open/fopen routines also have optional parameters for these things (i.e. "alq=" and "deq=").g  J If the language you are using doesn't support such a thing, you can switchG to using teh RMS routines directly or you can just use the RMS routineshK to create the file with the desired size, then close it from RMS and reopeneE it with your language's native commands for opening an existing file.a  D If you have no control over the source but know that it will open an6 existing file of the correct name, you can use the DCLC "COPY/ALLOC=xxx NL: myfile.log" to create the file the program will D open. You may need to use CONVERT on this file (or use CREATE/FDL toH make an empty file of the right sort and then copy it instead of copyingG from the null device) to set the file's record format and attributes ifiD you need something other than variable length with carriage control.  H If you have no control of the source and it won't open an existing file,H the best you can do is probably to use "SET VOLUME/EXTENSION=xxx mydisk"E and hope that the way the program opens the file honors this setting. D Depending on how the file is created this may not affect the initialG allocation, but if default settings are used in most languages it ought E to. In most cases even if the initial allocation doesn't pick up thisw- value, the later extensions of the file will.n   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 12:08:26 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m' Subject: Management Agents and Multineta3 Message-ID: <9pX8$0kkXkFY@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  L         I am trying to get OpenVMS management agent going under AlphaVMS 7.3I         with Multinet 4.3... I have followed the instructions found here:.  N http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/mgmt_agents/user_man.html#steps _tcpip  H         but the MIBs die shortly after startup.  Troubleshooting one via         a trace shows this:o    5 $ health :== $sys$specific:[wbem.agents]cpqhealth_mib  $ health -trace I 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.06 node$dka0:[sys0.][wbem.agents]cpqhealth_mib.exe;1d star tingN 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.08 **ERROR CPQHEALTH_INIT.C line 412: sys$trnlnm: logical n / ame not found in the logical table, status: 444rN 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.19 **ERROR CPQHEALTH_INIT.C line 412: sys$trnlnm: logical ng/ ame not found in the logical table, status: 444d? 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.20 cpqHealth data initialization completed 0 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.20 Termination countdown: 98 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.20 Initializing eSNMP connection...) 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.22 Ignoring SIGPIPE.y: 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.49 Using localhost address: 127.0.0.1' 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.49 Local port: 705 L 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.57 **ERROR ESNMP_INIT.C line 3747: Could not connect to mas. ter: connection refuseds1 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.58 esnmp_init() returning -13I 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.59 **ERROR CPQHEALTH_MIB.C line 294: eSNMP error: -1  Cannot/  send OPEN to Master Agent, restart after delaye0 16-MAY-2002 16:11:41.59 Termination countdown: 8    L         I can connect to port 2301 as outlined in the doc and view SNMP.CONFE         info following Multinet's example.  In other words, this pages         displays:t  5 http://node.place.domain.net:2301/WEBAGENT/FINDEX.TPLe  ,         System Name:   node.place.domain.net#         Description:   Node - Node1 D         Network Management Up Time:   Days: 0, Hours: 0, Minutes: 20C         Contact Information:   Rob Young - xx-yyyy, name@domain.netp         Location:   Here  *         By the way, my contact informationD         wasn't being picked up until I copied MULTINET:SNMPD.CONF toG         AGENTS directoy, see below for details.  So I don't think it isv)         even touching MULTINET:SNMPD.CONFs    ? <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input 705 ' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matcheds> <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input 23L TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1045)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1044)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1043)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1042)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1041)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITJ TCP       0     2  NODE.PLACE.(LOGIN)  159.14.8.3(1023)        ESTABLISHEDL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1040)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITI TCP       0     0  *(2301)                 *(*)                    LISTENd <NODE>$ show log multinet_snmp*e   (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)u   (LNM$JOB_8145FA40)   (LNM$GROUP_000100)   (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)     "MULTINET_SNMP_AGENTX" = "1"*   "MULTINET_SNMP_AGENT_CONTROL" = "MBA51:"3   "MULTINET_SNMP_AGENT_PROCESS_NAME" = "SNMP_AGENT"f.   "MULTINET_SNMP_AGENT_TERMINATION" = "MBA47:"9   "MULTINET_SNMP_EXTENSION_AGENT_0" = "MULTINET_TGVSNMPC"t9   "MULTINET_SNMP_EXTENSION_AGENT_1" = "MULTINET_NETSSNMP"e%   "MULTINET_SNMP_NUM_SUBAGENTS" = "2"t   (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)   (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)) <NODE>$ search multinet:snmpd.conf agentxt AGENTX_PEER 127.0.0.1n$ <NODE>$ multi netcontrol snmp reload- Connected to NETCONTROL server on "LOCALHOST" C < node.place.domain.net Network Control V4.3(10) at Fri 17-May-2002e
 1:00PM-EDT < SNMP server restarting/ <NODE>$ pipe show system | search sys$input cpqo' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matchedn/ <NODE>$ pipe show system | search sys$input cpq ' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matchede <NODE>$ reca pip> <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input 23L TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1057)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1056)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1055)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1054)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1053)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITL TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1052)         LOCALHOST(2301)         TIME_WAITJ TCP       0   516  NODE.PLACE.(LOGIN)  159.14.8.3(1023)        ESTABLISHEDI TCP       0     0  *(2301)                 *(*)                    LISTENr@ <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input snmp/ UDP       0     0  *(SNMP)                 *(*)D? <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input 705d' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched  <NODE>$ da sys$share:ucx*    Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]   UCX$ESNMP_SHR.EXE;10=                          420/420      16-MAY-2002 13:41:11.873    Total of 1 file, 420/420 blocks. <NODE>$ da sys$system:ucx*   Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]   UCX$MGT_THRESHOLDS.BAK;4=                            0/0        16-MAY-2002 15:44:30.83  UCX$MGT_THRESHOLDS.BAK;3=                            0/0        16-MAY-2002 14:48:22.08  UCX$MGT_THRESHOLDS.BAK;2=                            0/0        16-MAY-2002 14:25:13.44. UCX$MGT_THRESHOLDS.BAK;1=                            0/0        16-MAY-2002 13:46:22.80    Total of 4 files, 0/0 blocks.w <NODE>$ da sys$system:tcp*   Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]  = TCPIP$HR_MIB.EXE;1      1206/1208     11-JAN-2001 02:32:57.11   " Total of 1 file, 1206/1208 blocks. <NODE>$ da sys$share:tcp*n   Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]   TCPIP$ACCESS_SHR.EXE;1=                          495/496      11-JAN-2001 02:28:29.29t TCPIP$ESNMP_SHR.EXE;1r=                          420/420      11-JAN-2001 02:28:45.72   ! Total of 2 files, 915/916 blocks.   < <NODE>$ search sys$sysdevice:[sys0.wbem...]snmpd.conf agentx   ******************************, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.WBEM.AGENTS]SNMPD.CONF;4   AGENTX_PEER 127.0.0.1d    6         Anyone get this going?  What am I overlooking?  '                                 Thanks,   #                                 Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:02:54 -0400e% From: "Chuck Viau" <viau@process.com>0+ Subject: Re: Management Agents and Multinetc+ Message-ID: <ach4kh$sv1$1@news.process.com>r  E This looks like something that recently came up last week. The system I manager  did not have the local loopback device LPB0: defined. It must beiH equated with the real interface device name (like EWA0:) and tied to the? loopback address 127.0.0.1 - Then the Compaq agents came up ok.M   -Chuck Viau  Process software  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:9pX8$0kkXkFY@eisner.encompasserve.org.... >wJ >         I am trying to get OpenVMS management agent going under AlphaVMS 7.3 K >         with Multinet 4.3... I have followed the instructions found here:  >  >rL http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/mgmt_agents/user_man.html#ste ps > _tcpip >gJ >         but the MIBs die shortly after startup.  Troubleshooting one via >         a trace shows this:h >u >a7 > $ health :== $sys$specific:[wbem.agents]cpqhealth_mibn > $ health -tracemK > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.06 node$dka0:[sys0.][wbem.agents]cpqhealth_mib.exe;1  > star > tingH > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.08 **ERROR CPQHEALTH_INIT.C line 412: sys$trnlnm: logical- > nt1 > ame not found in the logical table, status: 444iH > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.19 **ERROR CPQHEALTH_INIT.C line 412: sys$trnlnm: logicall > n 1 > ame not found in the logical table, status: 444 A > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.20 cpqHealth data initialization completed 2 > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.20 Termination countdown: 9: > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.20 Initializing eSNMP connection...+ > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.22 Ignoring SIGPIPE.T< > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.49 Using localhost address: 127.0.0.1) > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.49 Local port: 705JK > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.57 **ERROR ESNMP_INIT.C line 3747: Could not connectc to > mas6 > ter: connection refused33 > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.58 esnmp_init() returning -1 K > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:38.59 **ERROR CPQHEALTH_MIB.C line 294: eSNMP error: -1A > Cannot1 >  send OPEN to Master Agent, restart after delayn2 > 16-MAY-2002 16:11:41.59 Termination countdown: 8 >e >bD >         I can connect to port 2301 as outlined in the doc and view	 SNMP.CONF G >         info following Multinet's example.  In other words, this page  >         displays:b >p7 > http://node.place.domain.net:2301/WEBAGENT/FINDEX.TPLt > . >         System Name:   node.place.domain.net% >         Description:   Node - Node1iF >         Network Management Up Time:   Days: 0, Hours: 0, Minutes: 20E >         Contact Information:   Rob Young - xx-yyyy, name@domain.net  >         Location:   Here >w, >         By the way, my contact informationF >         wasn't being picked up until I copied MULTINET:SNMPD.CONF toI >         AGENTS directoy, see below for details.  So I don't think it iso+ >         even touching MULTINET:SNMPD.CONFe >  > A > <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input 705 ) > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matchede@ > <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input 23< > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1045)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAITd< > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1044)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAIT < > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1043)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAITr< > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1042)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAITu< > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1041)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAITaL > TCP       0     2  NODE.PLACE.(LOGIN)  159.14.8.3(1023)        ESTABLISHED< > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1040)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAITkK > TCP       0     0  *(2301)                 *(*)                    LISTENg! > <NODE>$ show log multinet_snmp*u >s > (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)i >a > (LNM$JOB_8145FA40) >  > (LNM$GROUP_000100) >u > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >e  >   "MULTINET_SNMP_AGENTX" = "1", >   "MULTINET_SNMP_AGENT_CONTROL" = "MBA51:"5 >   "MULTINET_SNMP_AGENT_PROCESS_NAME" = "SNMP_AGENT"p0 >   "MULTINET_SNMP_AGENT_TERMINATION" = "MBA47:"; >   "MULTINET_SNMP_EXTENSION_AGENT_0" = "MULTINET_TGVSNMPC"s; >   "MULTINET_SNMP_EXTENSION_AGENT_1" = "MULTINET_NETSSNMP"i' >   "MULTINET_SNMP_NUM_SUBAGENTS" = "2"e >o > (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE) >O > (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)+ > <NODE>$ search multinet:snmpd.conf agentxo > AGENTX_PEER 127.0.0.10& > <NODE>$ multi netcontrol snmp reload/ > Connected to NETCONTROL server on "LOCALHOST" E > < node.place.domain.net Network Control V4.3(10) at Fri 17-May-20022 > 1:00PM-EDT > < SNMP server restarting1 > <NODE>$ pipe show system | search sys$input cpqa) > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched.1 > <NODE>$ pipe show system | search sys$input cpqi) > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched  > <NODE>$ reca pip@ > <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input 23< > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1057)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAIT < > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1056)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAIT9< > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1055)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAITr< > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1054)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAIT:< > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1053)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAIT < > TCP       0     0  LOCALHOST(1052)         LOCALHOST(2301)	 TIME_WAIT<L > TCP       0   516  NODE.PLACE.(LOGIN)  159.14.8.3(1023)        ESTABLISHEDK > TCP       0     0  *(2301)                 *(*)                    LISTENkB > <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input snmp1 > UDP       0     0  *(SNMP)                 *(*)nA > <NODE>$ pipe multi show /connections=all | search sys$input 705i) > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched. > <NODE>$ da sys$share:ucx*f >T  > Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB] >- > UCX$ESNMP_SHR.EXE;1-? >                          420/420      16-MAY-2002 13:41:11.87y >g" > Total of 1 file, 420/420 blocks. > <NODE>$ da sys$system:ucx* >l  > Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE] >a > UCX$MGT_THRESHOLDS.BAK;4? >                            0/0        16-MAY-2002 15:44:30.83n > UCX$MGT_THRESHOLDS.BAK;3? >                            0/0        16-MAY-2002 14:48:22.08l > UCX$MGT_THRESHOLDS.BAK;2? >                            0/0        16-MAY-2002 14:25:13.44  > UCX$MGT_THRESHOLDS.BAK;1? >                            0/0        16-MAY-2002 13:46:22.80g >  > Total of 4 files, 0/0 blocks.o > <NODE>$ da sys$system:tcp* >r  > Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE] >o? > TCPIP$HR_MIB.EXE;1      1206/1208     11-JAN-2001 02:32:57.11l >i$ > Total of 1 file, 1206/1208 blocks. > <NODE>$ da sys$share:tcp*  >y  > Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB] >k > TCPIP$ACCESS_SHR.EXE;1? >                          495/496      11-JAN-2001 02:28:29.29a > TCPIP$ESNMP_SHR.EXE;1s? >                          420/420      11-JAN-2001 02:28:45.72a > # > Total of 2 files, 915/916 blocks.- >-> > <NODE>$ search sys$sysdevice:[sys0.wbem...]snmpd.conf agentx >m  > ******************************. > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.WBEM.AGENTS]SNMPD.CONF;4 >8 > AGENTX_PEER 127.0.0.1r >n >.8 >         Anyone get this going?  What am I overlooking? > ) >                                 Thanks,o >e% >                                 Rob  >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:39:12 -0400g, From: David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> Subject: Re: mkisofs for Vax, Message-ID: <3CEC01F0.FE3FF197@email.uc.edu>   Tom Linden wrote:y >  > Look in the FAQ   F I did look in the Faqs, but I still don't see a binary copy of mkisofs for VAX/VMS.     Am I missing the link ?    Thanks e Dave     > ? > FILE7.  How do I write recordable CD media (CD-R) on OpenVMS?g > L > At its simplest: get LDDRIVER from the Freeware.  Get CDRECORD or CDWRITE.L > (CDRECORD and CDWRITE are freely available, though versions are not on theM > Freeware V5.0 distribition; the URLs are referenced later in this section).a > .e > .c > .t > ? > Additional information is available via David J. Dachtera at:o > ( >   http://www.djesys.com/vms/cdrom.html >  > Also see:e > 8 >   http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technology/CD-R/vms.html > D >   http://www.faqs.org/faqs/cdrom/cd-recordable/part1/preamble.html >   >   http://www.tmesis.com/CDrom/ >  > >-----Original Message-----a6 > >From: David Michaels [mailto:michaedi@email.uc.edu]& > >Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 4:37 PM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >Subject: mkisofs for Vaxm > >a > >h > >Hi, > >nD > >Is there a binary version of mkisofs for Vax/Vms. I've been usingI > >DFY$vmscd.exe with cdrecord and I really like it. I would also like toe> > >be able to make cd's that are readable on unix/dos systems. > >eI > >I have searched for a pretty long time for a binary file and still notaI > >found it. I have also had some difficulty compiling it on VMS 6.2, I'muG > >still kinda a newbie and building from source is a little difficult.a > >oE > >I see in the cdrecord source tree directory a command procedure toiB > >compile with instead of using make, Is this for mkisofs or just > >cdrecord? > >f > >f > > also > >m > >uE > >Is there an equivalent command to copy cd's like we do in unix `dde > >if=<device> of=cdrom.iso` > >t > > , > >Any help would be greatly appreciated.... > > 	 > >Thankso > >Daveh > >t > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. = > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B > >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 > >u > ---o( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 00:51:05 GMTi From: lbohan@spamless..dbc.com Subject: Re: mkisofs for Vax8 Message-ID: <5qeoeukdl9h6lblun77pn69v8dm074ui3i@4ax.com>  2 On Tue, 21 May 2002 19:36:45 -0400, David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> wrote:  G >I have searched for a pretty long time for a binary file and still notMG >found it. I have also had some difficulty compiling it on VMS 6.2, I'mjE >still kinda a newbie and building from source is a little difficult.e   well, perhaps try:  7 http://dbcbeta.dbc.com/LBohan/Mkisofs_Vax62/mkisofs.exen  6 it may work for you.                                    ? I tried compiling the mkisofs sources on a v6.2 system to begin/@ with, but didn't have a recent enough C compiler on that system)  , So, I compiled the mkisofs modules, instead # using DEC C v6.0 under Vax/Vms 7.1.h  ? And then brought the obj library over to a Vax/VMS 6.2 system, i> along w/ a copy of the decc$crtl.olb from the vax v7.1 system, and linked it there. i  @ $ link/exe=MKISOFS.EXE MKISOFS.OLB_VAX/library/include=mkisofs -  + []decc$crtl.v71_olb/lib c   $ MCR []MKISOFS.exe -v e mkisofs v1.05.vms7 Usage:3 mkisofs [-o outfile] [-R] [-V volid] [-v] [-a] [-T]nD  [-l] [-d] [-V] [-D] [-L] [-p preparer] [-P publisher] [ -A app_id ] [-z] [-x path -x path ...] path2   $H   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 22:24:07 -0400o( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>" Subject: More DECNET help please!!B Message-ID: <20020522220822.H30144-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  I Now that I can at least "SET HOST" between my VAX and PDP I have run into2H the next hurdle.  It seems I can copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am onI the PDP. But I can't copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am on the VAX. And-H worst of all, I can't copy from the VAX to the PDP (what I really needed DECNET for!!) from either end.  
 From the VAX: C %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening 1.82::[5,1]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 as output / -RMS-F-SUPPORT, network operation not supportedh( -FAL-F-RFM, record format field rejectedO %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, $USERS:[FACULTY.STAFF.BILL.DECUSC.005001]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 notp copied  
 From the PDP:2 ?NFT -- Bad RFM field in FAB   Looking at the lines:. ?NFT -- Bad RFM field in FAB( -FAL-F-RFM, record format field rejected  4 it looks like the same error just printed different.  4 Does anyone have an idea of how to get around this??  I I put up Phase_IV rather than the newer DECNET specifically because I wasaI led to believe this wa the only combination that would work with the PDP. G Is this perhaps not really true??  Is it likely that if I bring up some G very old version of VMS (5.something?) I may be able to use it as a go-cF between for these other machines??  I'm really trying to find a way toG move a large number of files to the PDP as it has no IP stack (at least  not yet! :-)  ( Any help, as usual, greatly appreciated.   bill   -- AJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:41:39 -0400T  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>& Subject: Re: More DECNET help please!!4 Message-ID: <1020522231236.353A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  + On Wed, 22 May 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote:*   > K > Now that I can at least "SET HOST" between my VAX and PDP I have run intonJ > the next hurdle.  It seems I can copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am onK > the PDP. But I can't copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am on the VAX. AndCJ > worst of all, I can't copy from the VAX to the PDP (what I really needed  > DECNET for!!) from either end.  " We're still talking RSTS/E, right?   > From the VAX:EE > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening 1.82::[5,1]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 as outpute1 > -RMS-F-SUPPORT, network operation not supportedS* > -FAL-F-RFM, record format field rejectedQ > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, $USERS:[FACULTY.STAFF.BILL.DECUSC.005001]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 notn > copied  A Problem 1) this isn't a legal file name on RSTS/E ($ not allowed,d 6+3 filenames.)   B You might have to copy the file with an explicit output spec, e.g.;  $ copy [.decusc.005001]$whatsnew.txt 1.82::[5,1]whtsnw.txtC  A You might also have to quote the RSTS/E side filespec, because of < the embedded comma, but that doesn't seem to be the problem.& (What exact copy command did you use?)   > From the PDP:a > ?NFT -- Bad RFM field in FAB >  > Looking at the lines:L > ?NFT -- Bad RFM field in FAB* > -FAL-F-RFM, record format field rejected  = I don't know why that would make it complain about the record19 format, though.  Is this really a text file?  Maybe it is < some sort of RMS file not supported by RMS-11?  (Not sure it; cares, though -- it might just copy the data in binary mode)9 and put the source files' attributes on the output file.)   6 > it looks like the same error just printed different. > 6 > Does anyone have an idea of how to get around this?? > K > I put up Phase_IV rather than the newer DECNET specifically because I wasiK > led to believe this wa the only combination that would work with the PDP.SI > Is this perhaps not really true??  Is it likely that if I bring up somecI > very old version of VMS (5.something?) I may be able to use it as a go-sH > between for these other machines??  I'm really trying to find a way toI > move a large number of files to the PDP as it has no IP stack (at leastl > not yet! :-)  ? I'm pretty sure Ph V doesn't matter at all, one way or another. @ IIRC, I used to do this all the time between VMS on both VAX and? Alpha, both Ph IV and V, both ways, but it has been about 2 1/2 @ years...  VMS V1.0->V7.1 on VAX, VMS V1.5->V7.1 on Alpha, RSTS/EC V7.?->V10.1 (don't remember when we 1st installed DECnet on RSTS/E,.E may have been in V8.0), using DMC-11's originally and later Ethernet.Y@ I don't know any reason why this shouldn't still work with later@ VMS - just that our PDP-11 died while we were still running V7.1 on the VMS side.  * > Any help, as usual, greatly appreciated.  < I generally tended to push or pull the files from the RSTS/EB side because NFT let you control binary or ASCII file conversions.  ; Using COPY to push files from the VMS side, the RSTS/E file;: would retain the VMS RMS attributes and format, and if you7 wanted a native text file (i.e. a BASIC or other sourcee8 file), you needed to convert it.  (IIRC, just running it? through TECO would do it, though I think someone wrote a little. converter program in BASIC+.)d  : Going PDP->VMS, if you pushed the files, you could control7 (for files without attributes) whether the transfer was 7 binary (data transfered as is, output file Seq, Fix=512-? records) or ASCII (convert text file to RMS variable sequentiali; file.)  You could also transfer RSTS/E text files in binaryc@ mode and then set the output file's attributes to be sequential,; stream_crlf records, and most VMS programs would be able toeB cope with them, but I don't think anything did this automatically.  ; BTW, have you installed RMS on the RSTS/E side?  This mightt; be required by FAL (File access listener, RSTS/E server fort DECNET file transfers.)V     > bill >  > --  L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >  >  >    -- e John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 03:33:04 GMTo+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> & Subject: Re: More DECNET help please!!+ Message-ID: <3CEC58BA.A77ACECF@ins-msi.com>h   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > K > Now that I can at least "SET HOST" between my VAX and PDP I have run into J > the next hurdle.  It seems I can copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am onK > the PDP. But I can't copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am on the VAX. And J > worst of all, I can't copy from the VAX to the PDP (what I really needed  > DECNET for!!) from either end. >  > From the VAX:eE > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening 1.82::[5,1]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 as output 1 > -RMS-F-SUPPORT, network operation not supportedo* > -FAL-F-RFM, record format field rejectedQ > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, $USERS:[FACULTY.STAFF.BILL.DECUSC.005001]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 not2  1 Is this file a STREAM, STREAM_LF, STREAM_CR file?    > copied >  > From the PDP:t > ?NFT -- Bad RFM field in FAB >  > Looking at the lines:7 > ?NFT -- Bad RFM field in FAB* > -FAL-F-RFM, record format field rejected > 6 > it looks like the same error just printed different. > 6 > Does anyone have an idea of how to get around this?? > K > I put up Phase_IV rather than the newer DECNET specifically because I was:K > led to believe this wa the only combination that would work with the PDP.aI > Is this perhaps not really true??  Is it likely that if I bring up someeI > very old version of VMS (5.something?) I may be able to use it as a go-/H > between for these other machines??  I'm really trying to find a way toI > move a large number of files to the PDP as it has no IP stack (at least  > not yet! :-) > * > Any help, as usual, greatly appreciated. >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  
 Jeff Campbellh n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 16:43:11 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Multinet Hobbyist PAKSa+ Message-ID: <acghqv$h6i$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>s  D How long is it taking for Multinet PAKS to come out after applying??C Stupid me, I applied for and installed new PAKS for VMS and layered A products and forgot that I needed one for Multinet as well.  This4A morning (after finally getting DECNET working) I came in to find OA Multinet expired.  Maybe I'm just spoiled by the almost immediateLJ response from Montager, but patience has never been one of my virtues. :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   E   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:27:05 GMTM- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)=# Subject: Re: Multinet Hobbyist PAKSL1 Message-ID: <3cebe266.275705022@news.process.com>"  O On 22 May 2002 16:43:11 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:N  E >How long is it taking for Multinet PAKS to come out after applying??ND >Stupid me, I applied for and installed new PAKS for VMS and layeredB >products and forgot that I needed one for Multinet as well.  ThisB >morning (after finally getting DECNET working) I came in to find B >Multinet expired.  Maybe I'm just spoiled by the almost immediateK >response from Montager, but patience has never been one of my virtues. :-)r >7C We verify your license checksum with Montagar (all done via variouss. DCL scripts, etc.). In your case this morning,F the delay was actually caused by Montagar's system being inaccessible.G By the time you made your second request, Montagar was back up and bothp were processed.m   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/O8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:59:30 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)C# Subject: Re: Multinet Hobbyist PAKS 1 Message-ID: <3cebe9de.277617022@news.process.com>I  P On Wed, 22 May 2002 18:27:05 GMT, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote:  P >On 22 May 2002 16:43:11 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > 0 >>Maybe I'm just spoiled by the almost immediateL >>response from Montager, but patience has never been one of my virtues. :-) >>D >We verify your license checksum with Montagar (all done via various/ >DCL scripts, etc.). In your case this morning,0G >the delay was actually caused by Montagar's system being inaccessible.xH >By the time you made your second request, Montagar was back up and both >were processed. > D I meant to actually answer your question: normally, getting MultiNetE Hobbyist PAKs takes no more than a minute or two from request to yourSJ getting the PAKs, but the automated procedures that do that check couldn't2 reach Montagar for about three hours this morning.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/G8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:41:30 -040047 From: "news.spacelots.com" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> & Subject: Multinet, NFS and Sun Solaris2 Message-ID: <3cebd11f.0@ALPHA1.FIRSTDBASOURCE.COM>  3 I am having a problem with a clients configuration:N   VMS7.1-2+ MultiNet NFS Configuration Utility V4.3(78)S	 SunOS 5.8   J When the exported device is mounted on the Sun box, the directory is long,J the ls filenames turn to garbage.  Looks like some sort of buffer problem?   NFSCONFIG> show /fulla Kernel-Mode file server.B Number of RPC Transports:                 10 simultaneous requests4 Size of duplicate request cache:         250 entries4 File cache timer interval:                30 seconds4 Read-Only flush age:                     180 seconds4 Read/Write flush age:                     60 seconds4 File info flush age:                    1200 seconds4 Directory info flush age:                300 seconds4 File info idle flush age:                600 seconds4 Directory info idle flush age:           150 seconds1 Use Directory Blocking ASTs for cache consistencyl, Use File Blocking ASTs for cache consistency2 Approximate text size threshold:      512000 bytes2 Maximum cache files:                    3000 files4 Maximum cache buffers:                   500 buffers5 Maximum open channels:                    50 channelsV2 Maximum file system files:              3000 files4 Maximum file system buffers:             500 buffers5 Maximum file system channels:             50 channelst2 Maximum Queued Removes:                   25 filesE Seconds Before Writeback:                  0 seconds (writeback cacher	 disabled)v  
 Any ideas?   Michael Austin   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:48:02 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesf8 Message-ID: <cf4oeuk2mvep4e8lfidicfgshls731qt2g@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 22 May 2002 15:40:14 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyF4 <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:   >: >e
 >jlsue wrote:0 >4H >> On Fri, 17 May 2002 12:20:41 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy7 >> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:f >>   >> m >> vL >>>>Hmmm.  Given the 33% drop in BCSG revenue in Q1, the dominant portion ofM >>>>which drop seems to be attributable to an even greater percentage fall ineP >>>>Alpha sales, I'd say that assertion is at best highly questionable (and moreO >>>>than likely to continue to be at least as questionable in future quarters).kM >>>>While you may be living in a pleasant little closed world where VMS seemsi, >>>>healthy, Fred, most of the world is not. >>>> >>>> >>> L >>>The UK market numbers support your view. Alpha revenues are according to J >>>the latest report down to their lowest share of the market for 3 years E >>>at 4.6% with unit volumes at an all time low as well. Prior to the H >>>HP Compaq initial announcments Alpha had a 11.3% share of the market. >>>t >>>- >>  H >> Poor statistical analysis.  Drop in market share can come even duringH >> times of increased sales/revenues/profits.  Drop in market share doesF >> not mean the business is falling if the market (overall size of the >> pie) is getting larger. >> i >  >t9 >But then the flaw in your argument as you know full wellt: >is that the market hasn't been increasing over the period$ >we are refering to it has declined. >1< >This rather ruins your argument as you should have realised >before you bothered replying. >l; >Still its a very nice point that you may be able to use in5= >the future when the market does start growing again, save itv >for then. :):):):)t >o  ? That depends on how you define market share.  Do the stats onlyd including new systems?1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqu- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:06:33 -0400n( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com>L Subject: Re: OpenVMS (not) on DS20L (was: re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts)/ Message-ID: <ueo5jdengu9ja4@corp.supernews.com>o  <     API..er...Samsung actually,  built a motherboard with an@     EV68/DDR cache. Last I heard they were still making it. It's9     called the UP1500. It's based on the AMD 760 chipset.c  =     Prior to that, you had the UP1100 and the UP1000. Neither =     made any stellar inroads into marketshare. And don't tellu?     me it was because they didn't run VMS. It's because there's :     little to no market for a $1500-$2000 motherboard with=     an Alpha chip on it. If they sold and customers requestedr6     them in enough volume, then they'd be running VMS.:     Somehow, I don't think Rich Marcello ever got an order9     for 10,000 UP1100-based VMS systems. (or even 1000!!)l  6     Complete systems for these motherboards are in the9     $3k range. They don't sell in numbers large enough to>     justify further investment.H  6     (There was talk of the UP1100 design being used by:     Compaq a few years ago, but it was dropped because the     DS10 was "good enough")r  L                                                                         mike  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messager7 news:d7791aa1.0205211709.67d44dea@posting.google.com...o2 > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 news:<3blkeu82me062re8k8tavb1uji6mjn5irr@4ax.com>...E > > On 21 May 2002 05:57:48 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)F
 > > wrote: > >0 > > >SL > > >their is still a need for a single processor workstation for small workJ > > >groups/offices, and small business ... I hope they don't forget that! > > I > > There will be no single processor EV7 based motherboard - workstationyJ > > or otherwise. I don't know if they intend to continue EV6 based single > > processor systems. >a< > I know that, I am stating that they better shrink EV68 and9 > put out 1ghz single cpu boxes for the smaller users ...y? > we need them, and until itanium is ready in 2005, they bettero@ > continue to make ds10 or ds10l's or a replacement workstation/4 > small server ... don't forget the small vms shops!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:23:21 +0100e' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> # Subject: Re: OpenVMS times in excel 2 Message-ID: <220520021823213865%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  A In article <be44b12d.0205220414.15f1495@posting.google.com>, Pietg# Timmers <piet@timmers-it.nl> wrote:   F > This is not a real OpenVMS question, but i think this is the one and > only group to post it. > D > We want to use the OpenVMS time format (example 00:00:02.61) in an > excel spread sheet.R > F > Is it possible to convert it to a time like 00:00:02 and then to use > it as a time in excel.  B Sure, custom format the cell as hh:mm:ss.00 if you want it down to 1/100thsE In your example formatting the cell as hh:mm:ss will produce 00:00:03pD If you really want 00:00:02, you have two methods:- string strip the' 1/100ths off, or get fancy with floor()n  D I's ask on microsoft.public.{mac|dark side}.office.excel There ain't much VMS in that problem. ;-)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:15:18 +1000-/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>;% Subject: Print status - Why is it so? 1 Message-ID: <raZG8.1502$l62.61767@ozemail.com.au>a  < Why do some print jobs that complete ok have status 00000001 and some have 00040001?.  F      Date / Time      Type     Subtype     Username      ID     Source StatusL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----> 23-MAY-2002 00:17:40 PRINT               USERNAME     2980B5B2 00000001> 23-MAY-2002 11:55:47 PRINT               USERNAME     2980BF22 00040001> 23-MAY-2002 12:03:24 PRINT               USERNAME     2980BF22 00040001   Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 23:39 CDTF' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)-) Subject: Re: Print status - Why is it so?d- Message-ID: <22MAY200223395753@gerg.tamu.edu>   3 "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> writes...h= }Why do some print jobs that complete ok have status 00000001f }and some have 00040001? } G }     Date / Time      Type     Subtype     Username      ID     Source) }Status M }----------------------------------------------------------------------------e }----s? }23-MAY-2002 00:17:40 PRINT               USERNAME     2980B5B2t	 }00000001s? }23-MAY-2002 11:55:47 PRINT               USERNAME     2980BF22a	 }00040001 ? }23-MAY-2002 12:03:24 PRINT               USERNAME     2980BF22w	 }00040001e }  }Phils    N The value 1 is the status SS$_NORMAL. This is VMS's "generic" success message.  G Hex 40001 is JBC$_NORMAL. This is the job controller's success message.oE The job controller's facility prefix is 4. The is followed by the twolL byte status value - it is message 1 (which is the same status as SS$_NORMAL) belonging to the JBC facility.  " As another example, consider this: $ exit %x20dG %SYSTEM-W-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violationn $ exit %x40020D %JBC-W-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violation  ! Same message, different facility.   0 As my guess for where the difference comes from:  F The PRINT accounting record type actually covers more than just actualE printing. Records from jobs run in "server queues", for example, alsoMJ show up as type PRINT. These server queue jobs tend to return JBC$_NORMAL,E whereas jobs from printer queues tend to return SS$_NORMAL (at least,d that is the case on my system).h  F There are other types of queues, such as terminal queues. I don't know$ which code a terminal queue returns.  I This may also depend on what print symbiont you are using. It is possible F the the two codes are from different symbionts and they are all actualA print jobs. Print jobs from queues using the DCPS symbiont returnO SS$_NORMAL for success.i   Try: ACC/TYPE=PRINT/FU/STATUS=1e  D This will probably show accounting records with queue names that are
 print queues.f  # Try: ACC/TYPE=PRINT/FU/STATUS=40001e  D This will probably show accounting records with queue names that are server queues.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 20:51:19 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)( Subject: Re: Reading unreadable tapes...* Message-ID: <ach0c7$r2p$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  m In article <ddf392ea.0205201757.1b8b0913@posting.google.com>, contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) writes:l1 :Many times, in my job, when I issue the command:e9 :$ backup/log/noassi/sele=(login.com) mka500:bkp110502 []f :I get this message: : -error positioning mka500: :  parity error , (or) :  excessive error , etc...  :eD :Id like to know if is there any software to enable access data in  :fault DAT tapes...i  8   There are media recovery services which may help here.  C   You will want to ensure that you have run the cleaning cartridge;iA   that the DAT (DDS) drive has been cleaned.  Use this regularly.-  I   There is a simple reason why DAT (DDS) cartridges and DAT (DDS) drives iI   are cheaper than DLT.  The DAT (DDS) media I am familiar with is rated .F   for 2000 head passes, and a typical sequence of tape operations can F   result in a number of passes of the tape volume headers.  Various ofH   the DLT media, by comparision, is rated at a half-million head passes.G   Further, DAT (DDS) is more subject to tape wear and to dirty heads.  s'   DLT is rather less sensitive to this.e  E   I've personally found that pre-emptive rotation of and disposal of tD   DAT (DDS) media -- based on its individual usage -- is reasonable,H   and I (personally) use high-quality DAT (DDS) media whenever possible.H   I also (personally) tend to use disk, DLT, Zip250, and CD-R archiving.  G   Newer systems are using AIT and other tape technologies, in addition _=   to the existing and the updated DLT and DAT (DDS) widgetry.-    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 11:51:30 -0700h# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l2 Subject: RE: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEKDFAAA.tom@kednos.com>   > How embarassing, they could at least have written it S-Algol !   >-----Original Message-----lC >From: Pete Fenelon [mailto:pete@omega.lovett.com]On Behalf Of Peteo >Fenelon& >Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:24 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >Subject: Re: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture)k >a >e4 >In comp.arch Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: >> eH >> Which reminds me, anyone remember S-Algol (St. Andrews University). I@ >> recall they had a VAX/VMS compiler. Wonder if it still exists >> anywhere. >> t > K >A PC implementation of Persistent S-Algol written in Turbo Pascal lives attK >http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/compilers/compilerindex/t1.html#AEN8s >- >peteg >-- B >pete@fenelon.com "Irk the purists, irk the purists, it's a right 
 >good laugh."  >l >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.n; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).e@ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >C ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:52:12 -0400s( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com>8 Subject: Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??/ Message-ID: <ueo4ocrrvquof5@corp.supernews.com>   ;     There is no production motherboard available that has a->     21264 ZIF socket. All of them were soldered in for reasons(     of EMI and other electrical reasons.  9     I don't know who sold these CPU's, but the definatelye5     scammed a number of people who thought they couldr$     drop it in a motherboard and go.  @                                                             mike  5 "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com> wrote in message / news:acfj6v$p4h30$1@ID-131939.news.dfncis.de...aL > Yes, had my suspcions about the same. While it may not work in a DP264, it- > has to work in some motherboard, somewhere.i$ > Why else would they make the CPU?? >tJ > I wouldnt sell it tho, far too menacing looking and I didnt pay too much fors > it!  >  >v >f > Matt >n >c >k5 > "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com> wrote in messagee+ > news:uelgkc9eoca379@corp.supernews.com...a > >u > >     You're SOL.a > >yA > >     The Slot B's had the CPU's attached during manufacturing. @ > >     You'd need some seriously expensive equipment (ie: Not aC > >     radio shack soldering iron) to attach this CPU to anything.t > >a9 > >     SlotB does not equal DP264 daughter card. Totallyc > >     different. > >o: > >     Sell it on EBay and let someone else deal with it.4 > >     Caveat Emptor. This is not your kids Athlon. > >cH > >                                                                 mike > >d9 > > "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com> wrote in message:; > > news:b4a22604.0205210123.7787e4a4@posting.google.com... 
 > > > Hi All,4 > > >TE > > > I asked this some time ago and we didnt get far, so Ill give itu anotherd > > > shot.t > > >aG > > > I have an Alpha 21264a CPU (bare). I need a (any it would appear)e 21264  > > CPUe0 > > > daughtercard (aka module) and motherboard.F > > > Does anyone have any ideas. I have tried Harddata and some other > retailersl6 > > > and they claimed they wont/cant sell such parts. > > >eI > > > My research indicates that the DP264 motherboard and a daughtercarde > would J > > > work.. but where to find empty motherboards? The CPU itself is rated atJ > > > 733MHz, but I have been led to believe that it would simply run at a > lower 9 > > > speed (500MHz in a DP264?) in a slower motherboard.t > > >r > > >t) > > > Any other suggestions most welcome,  > > >G > > >  > > > 
 > > > Matt > >w > >o >s >m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:35:02 -0400 7 From: "news.spacelots.com" <maustin@firstdbasource.com>-$ Subject: Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT2 Message-ID: <3cebcfaa.0@ALPHA1.FIRSTDBASOURCE.COM>  B Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote in message <3CEC0188.9743C9EC@aaa.com>... >Hi.4 >For anyone knowing how smtp works through firewalls) >using NAT (network address translation).a >n. >I'v a setup that I'm investigating right now. >V >Scenario :O >.8 >system-X (X)  <--->  filewall (FW)  <--->  system-Y (Y) > - >X is an unknown platform, but can "do" smtp.r. >Y is an DS20e with VMS 7.2-1 and UCX V5.0A-1. >F. >X and Y should send smtp mails to each other. >b7 >X is on the "inside" and Y on the "outside" of the FW.u7 >The FW NAT's the IP addresses between the two systems.s >i@ >Now, sending mails Y -> X goes just fine. Y uses the "external"B >address (NAT'ed) of X. These mails goes from the "outside" to the >"inside", as seen from the FW.f >l% >The problem is to send mails X -> Y.s >iC >Actualy the smtp server is called on Y, but in the smtp logs on Y,uD >the address of the "client" is not the NAT'ed address of X, but the2 >FW's "common" address. Or as the FW manager sad : >h? >"it's simply using the outbound many-to-one NAT instead of therC >static NAT. In other words, it's acting just like a user that goes > >to the outside thru a firewall. It uses port assignment to doE >many-to-one NAT using the outside interface IP address as the NAT IPl
 >address." >eG >Well, hope you get the picture. B.t.w, neither side of this FW belongs F >to the "internet", it's all internal to a specific site, but with one >"isolated" subnet.m >sF >Now, I'm *can* VMS and UCX, but FW's are kind of a black hole for me. >sI >In the smtp server log on Y, I get this (an extract of the complete log)- >- >[a lot of startup mesages...], >SMTP_RECV_MAIL: remote host not in hosts DBH >SMTP_RECV_MAIL: remote host IP address: <the "common" ip address of the >FW>3 >SMTP_RECV_MAIL: remote host name: unknown.hostnameM. >recv_serv: local host = <the local host name>G >recv_serv: remote host = unknown.hostname            <<<=== don't knowe >where this commes from ! G >send buf=220 <the local host name> V5.0A-1, OpenVMS V7.2-1 Alpha readyn( >at Mon, 20 May 2002 12:02:53 +0000 \d\a >recv_serv: repl_buf = helo>F >send buf=250 <the local host name> Hello unknown.hostname, pleased to
 >meet you\d\ar >recv_serv: repl_buf = quito@ >send buf=221 <the local host name> Service closing transmission >channel\d\a > H >The only error/warning I can find is the one saying "remote host not in >hosts DB".i >bE >To me it seams as the client (X) send a "helo" and then just "quit".tD >Maybe the messages sent "in" from Y->X ("send buf" in the log) just >don't >reach the X system !? >U9 >Well, that's it. I'm stuck. Any ideas are very welcome !r >g >Jan-Erik Sderholm. >t >PS.? >There was another note by the FW manager. I'm not sure if it's  >rellevant but here it goes :  >w> >"Also I did make a modification in the firewall just in case.A >The rule set was using filtered-smtp instead of standard smtp... > >same port number but I changed it to smtp just to see if that >makes a difference.". >p8 >I don't know the difference between "filtered-smtp" and7 >"standard smtp", so I can't tell if this is important.  >DS.  / Here is what I have - not sure if it will help.o  " ==>DSL-->SOHO-Router/Hub/NAT-->VMS  C Dynamic DNS provider domain name points to Router(PPPoE dynamic IP)i= MX record points mydomain -> mail.mydomain = PPPoE IP address J I have a Linux box that keeps the IP address updated (old 166Mhz-32Mb mem)  A Router port-forwards SMTP to my VMS (192.168.1.x non-routable IP)m  8 SMTP is configured with my ISP as the Alternate gateway.  . All is well.  My DDNS provider is ZONEEDIT.COM  % "A" record must exist for a MX recordy  B I am sure if you are well versed in DNS you can figure this out :)     Michael Austin maustin@firstdbasource.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 22:37:28 +0200k9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o  Subject: smtp, firewalls and NAT' Message-ID: <3CEC0188.9743C9EC@aaa.com>a   Hi.s3 For anyone knowing how smtp works through firewallsi( using NAT (network address translation).  - I'v a setup that I'm investigating right now.   
 Scenario :  7 system-X (X)  <--->  filewall (FW)  <--->  system-Y (Y)o  , X is an unknown platform, but can "do" smtp.- Y is an DS20e with VMS 7.2-1 and UCX V5.0A-1.r  - X and Y should send smtp mails to each other.d  6 X is on the "inside" and Y on the "outside" of the FW.6 The FW NAT's the IP addresses between the two systems.  ? Now, sending mails Y -> X goes just fine. Y uses the "external"lA address (NAT'ed) of X. These mails goes from the "outside" to thea "inside", as seen from the FW.  $ The problem is to send mails X -> Y.  B Actualy the smtp server is called on Y, but in the smtp logs on Y,C the address of the "client" is not the NAT'ed address of X, but thet1 FW's "common" address. Or as the FW manager sad :t  > "it's simply using the outbound many-to-one NAT instead of theB static NAT. In other words, it's acting just like a user that goes= to the outside thru a firewall. It uses port assignment to doiD many-to-one NAT using the outside interface IP address as the NAT IP	 address."1  F Well, hope you get the picture. B.t.w, neither side of this FW belongsE to the "internet", it's all internal to a specific site, but with one  "isolated" subnet.  E Now, I'm *can* VMS and UCX, but FW's are kind of a black hole for me.S  H In the smtp server log on Y, I get this (an extract of the complete log)   [a lot of startup mesages...]l+ SMTP_RECV_MAIL: remote host not in hosts DB G SMTP_RECV_MAIL: remote host IP address: <the "common" ip address of thet FW>y2 SMTP_RECV_MAIL: remote host name: unknown.hostname- recv_serv: local host = <the local host name>.F recv_serv: remote host = unknown.hostname            <<<=== don't know where this commes from !F send buf=220 <the local host name> V5.0A-1, OpenVMS V7.2-1 Alpha ready' at Mon, 20 May 2002 12:02:53 +0000 \d\ae recv_serv: repl_buf = heloE send buf=250 <the local host name> Hello unknown.hostname, pleased to! meet you\d\a recv_serv: repl_buf = quit? send buf=221 <the local host name> Service closing transmissiony channel\d\au  G The only error/warning I can find is the one saying "remote host not in@
 hosts DB".  D To me it seams as the client (X) send a "helo" and then just "quit".C Maybe the messages sent "in" from Y->X ("send buf" in the log) juste don'tb reach the X system !?o  8 Well, that's it. I'm stuck. Any ideas are very welcome !   Jan-Erik Sderholm.m   PS.0> There was another note by the FW manager. I'm not sure if it's rellevant but here it goes :  = "Also I did make a modification in the firewall just in case.r@ The rule set was using filtered-smtp instead of standard smtp...= same port number but I changed it to smtp just to see if that0 makes a difference.".0  7 I don't know the difference between "filtered-smtp" ando6 "standard smtp", so I can't tell if this is important. DS..   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:22:52 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>:$ Subject: Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT' Message-ID: <3CEC0C2C.8CDF927A@aaa.com>s   Thanks Michael !@ But, I forgot to mention, there is no DNS structure around where= this X, Y and FW lives. All addresses are is hardcoded in theh; systems. NO, it's not "nice", but there is only two systemsUD (The VMS (Y) and a NT box) on the "outside" of this FW and they only> have to talk to the smtp server (X) on the "inside" of the FW.  D So there is noware to put any "A" or "MX" records (other then localy on the VMS box).  C The "outside" (with the VMS box) are using a 192.168 network b.t.w.   	 Jan-Erik.U   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 19:36:23 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)= Subject: Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help neededi* Message-ID: <acgrvn$r2p$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  E In article <3CE96B67.20809@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:d  ;   [discussion of adding support for HP printers expurgated]s  J :Sounds good, but is also worrying. It could lead to a HP-only policy, so ) :no more support for non-HP printers etc.-  I   "Support" has and has had a very specific meaning to engineering and to-H   the services organizations, and I will here interprete the request as J   "will function with" and not "will support".  This question arises quiteJ   regularly for various third-party devices, and I would fully expect the M   existing policy of compliance with accepted industry standards to continue.c  H   For some of the considerations involved in third-party widgets, please.   see the section of the OpenVMS FAQ entitled:  A     "Third-party disk/tape/controllers/SCSI/widgets on OpenVMS?"    I   While this topic applies largely to SCSI widgets, the underlying theme lF   is similar -- if our OpenVMS code is found non-compliant (and can beH   fixed without busting supported configuration(s)), we'll normally fix H   it.  But if you purchase an unsupported widget, please expect to have I   resolve integration and testing issues to your own satisfaction -- you cH   get to be the "primary" for this work.  (This ownership of the testingJ   responsibility, and the ownership if finding and coordinating any neededI   fixes for any problem identified is at the core of the term "support".)N  J   I am not familiar with the policies around device support for HP-UX, but$   I would expect them to be similar.  J   As should be familiar to anyone that has read through the Ask The WizardI   area, networking and IP printing is an endless source of entertainment.nK   Topic (1020) is the "keystone" topic for IP printing over in the Ask The nI   Wizard area, and it and the topics it references contain various of theP.   discussions and pointers to the discussions.  J   The short version: we expect each vendor involved to fix their own bugs,H   and we expect that the customer will select functional configurations.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 21:27:33 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)? Subject: Re: VCB02-C (8 plane colour graphics) in a VAX 4705A ?l* Message-ID: <ach2g5$r2p$5@web1.cup.hp.com>  T In article <3CEB9E97.EBB1229D@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: :1. Can this be done?   G   I do not know; I'd moved to AlphaStation and VAXstation systems long s0   before this VAX 4000 series box was available.  F   Centrally, this really depends on the revision of the VCB02 (GPX) --F   yes, there are GPX modules that were sold for a few of the lower-endH   VAX 4000 series Q-bus boxes -- but be aware that the older VCB02 (GPX)I   revisions have Q-bus timing issues.  I had trouble with a down-revisiontH   VCB02 board on a VAXstation 3500, which was a supported configuration.  @ :Is there a 'better' location for the boards, i.e. closer to the/ :processor modules or at the 'end' of the QBUS?i  H   Closer.  Usually the first open Q-22/CD or Q-22/Q-22 slot in the box, D   directly adjacent to the memory card for those VAX boxes using the   PMI-based memory.r  C :Will it adversely affect airflow/cooling without the RF panelling?S  G   Donno -- this was not particularly tested, due to EMI considerations.aE   There was an S-box cover for this module, given the VAXstation 3500sD   series was sold with the VCB02 controller.  (Some of these widgetsC   had attached spines as handles, and some had detachable handles.)o  % :(Other modules: CXY08, KZQSA, TQK70)  :SG :2. As I don't have a 'proper' video/kb/mouse cable for this, if I swap-H :the wires for the 'red' and ground to suit a standard VAXstation cable,' :will this be OK? (I have the pinouts).-  I   "Standard VAXstation cable" meaning what?  (But if you have the pinoutsSH   and are using the same (old) mouse and keyboards, why are you asking?)  F :(I'm prepared to try it, but I have to go to some effort retrieving aH :monitor and cabling but I'd still like advice on 1. above. I could justG :get monitor and a 4000-60 workstation, but this seems like potentially  :more fun.)   F   The VAXstation 4000 model 60 is one of the nicest VAXstation systemsE   available.  Fast (for a VAX).  Multi-head capable, given the right PC   graphics controller.  I/O is also much better than the Q-bus I/O.@  # :FYI: Modules are M7169, M7168 x 2.s  6   This is the VCB02, 8-plane GPX.  1024 x 864 x 60 Hz.  F   I would not attempt anything M7169 below rev E5, nor M7168 below B1.      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:08:28 GMTIL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? 8 Message-ID: <00A0E509.76D6C4B8@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  _ In article <acg7ud$c90$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >sG >So, can anyone here tell me why it is when Unix variants are discussed-  >BSD gets ignored completely??    M Sure.  Linux has an interesting, _comprehensible_ story behind it, a likeableRK personality pushing it, and a cute penguin.  Try to explain to someone who oH hasn't followed Unix closely enough to know there's a difference betweenL System V and 4.4 the whole ownership and licensing history that resulted in I xBSD being available.  It's confusing, it's not sexy, and it's not _new_.'  H Linus managed to get Linux over the awareness barrier, and then a lot ofM companies started advertising it.  There's also a lot of grassroots publicity ! efforts, like Linux Install Days.t  O As a result, people have heard of it, and they haven't heard of xBSD.  And eveneK if they have heard of xBSD, they think Linux must be better because it getsrL so much more press.  Actual technical superiority has nothing to do with it.   Not really unlike VMS.      ( >There are versions of BSD that will runE >on the hardware you currently own (VAX and Alpha), it is more stablecD >than Linux in most cases.  It is frequently more secure than Linux.F >And it has a world of applications including at least three different >Office suites.  s  P Not to mention Linux compatibility layers so they can run (many) Linux binaries K as well as being able to compile decently-written Linux source; there isn'th0 really an application deficit compared to Linux.  8 <Works great on both desktops and as servers.  They must. >be the Rodney Dangerfields of the Unix world.   Not really unlike VMS.   -- Alan.  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056aM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210aO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 13:17:35 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?a3 Message-ID: <oG+lHdFwik9e@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  x In article <uOt2sFCErxu4@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:   > M > This means that unless BSD is perceived along these lines, then it may not TK > be considered. Remember that in cases like this, what matters is what the  > reality is _perceived_ to be.  >   F 	You mean what matters most is what actually occurs.  Our perceptions  	may be flawed.u  G 	I wouldn't bet on BSD.  The Unix field is crowded enough as it is and sE 	BSD certainly wouldn't be a tier 1 port on anyone's list of OSes to 0	 	support.r   				Robp  G "The human understanding is like a false mirror, which, receiving rays dN   irregularly, distorts and discolors the nature of things by mingling its own!    nature with it."      -- Bacona   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:32:42 GMTu' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net> ' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?i* Message-ID: <3CEBE4BA.C8D588CB@nospam.net>  , Some on the list might find this interesting  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > <snip>  7 > One reason for this is that Linux does not scale muchl5 > beyond 4 CPU's though peoples mileage may vary. Thei! > Regatta boxes support 32 CPU's.W   > <snip>   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 13:07:31 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?o3 Message-ID: <uOt2sFCErxu4@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  _ In article <acg7ud$c90$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:i5 > In article <VYHx8mJO$QZo@eisner.encompasserve.org>,mG >  clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:b > |> nM > |> Given Nic's information below, and Bob's above, it looks the choices foreJ > |> people wishing to go from VMS to a Unix variant have a choice betweenM > |> Linux or Solaris. What problems (from a VMS viewpoint) does Solaris have  > |> that Linux does not ? > H > So, can anyone here tell me why it is when Unix variants are discussedH > BSD gets ignored completely??  There are versions of BSD that will runF > on the hardware you currently own (VAX and Alpha), it is more stableE > than Linux in most cases.  It is frequently more secure than Linux. G > And it has a world of applications including at least three differenttI > Office suites.  Works great on both desktops and as servers.  They musto/ > be the Rodney Dangerfields of the Unix world.t >   $ I assume that you are a BSD fan. :-)  A The answer is quite simple: I simply didn't think of this option,.G even though I am aware of the existence of BSD. That would suggest that E perhaps BSD needs some more promotion in order to be considered as an E option when people like myself start asking these types of questions.n  L Another thing to consider: if people are forced off VMS, then, after pickingJ a set of candidate operating systems that are a good technical match, theyG are likely to pick an operating system from this set which is likely toiK survive for a long time and is likely to be heavily developed and promoted.sI (The promotion is required so that they can feel that it's future will bee secure.)  M The last thing that people will want is to do is to move to another operatingtI system that might be technically superior, but whose future is unknown or.J uncertain, in case they have to go through the whole migration process yet again.  H If there's still more than one candidate operating system left after theK above selections have been applied, then they are likely to pick a platformm that looks good on a future CV.h  K This means that unless BSD is perceived along these lines, then it may not  I be considered. Remember that in cases like this, what matters is what thel reality is _perceived_ to be.    Simon.   -- hB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2002 18:59:23 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?M+ Message-ID: <acgpqb$lhb$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   0 In article <acgbqj$1ka$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>,X  Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: |>  ; |> Most of IBM's expenditure in the Linux space has been inl; |> porting their existing applications to Linux and portingn; |> Linux to OS/400 and hosted under VM on an IBM mainframe.- |> a; |> It is interesting to note that Linux on an S390, a truly5< |> awfull idea has garnered more interest and headlines than |> OpenVMS recently.  ; Why do oyu find Linux on S390 to be a "truly awfull idea"??    |> hF |> They do not appear to want to port Lunix to Power and power remains8 |> the spearhead of their non mainframe server business. |>  ; Why should they bother??  It has already been ported to then Power architecture.   " bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 14:22:36 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?l3 Message-ID: <rxg$rFG$D6MB@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  a In article <oG+lHdFwik9e@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:Oz > In article <uOt2sFCErxu4@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >  >>  N >> This means that unless BSD is perceived along these lines, then it may not L >> be considered. Remember that in cases like this, what matters is what the  >> reality is _perceived_ to be. >> e > H > 	You mean what matters most is what actually occurs.  Our perceptions  > 	may be flawed.f >   G Yes, the point that I was trying to make is that it's the perception ofWJ the person who makes the recommendation to his/her boss, and is aware thatH they have to accept responsibility for that decision, that decides which operating system will be used.  G If they have to pick a Unix and believe that, overall, Linux or SolarissF is better than BSD, then Linux or Solaris will be the operating system in use.c  K [Assume for the sake of discussion that BSD is superior, but that this fact K is only known to those that have worked with it for a long time. If you areoA a BSD expert, then you will be very comfortable recommending BSD.2  L However, if you have no BSD knowledge, but are otherwise a technical expert,J and you are asked to consider BSD, then your reaction is likely to be veryI different even though BSD would be obviously superior once you had workednK with it. But you don't get that opportunity, because you have decided to gonL with a more well known Unix because it (a) appears to satisfy your technicalF criteria and (b) you can get the level of formal support that you need for production use.]  F And speaking for myself, I would be very uneasy about recommending BSDK as the preferred Unix, regardless of any technical advantages, unless thosegE advantages turn out to be overwhelming. From where I am, a VMS personaH moving more and more into Unix, it's simply too much of an unknown to be considered for production use.  F There's also the fact that in commercial production use, you do need aF support contract with a well established company, which means either aG commercial Unix or a vendor offering Linux/BSD support contracts in the 2 same way that VMS support contracts are available.   Simon.   -- 0B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.D   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:26:39 GMTi From: jim@lxux.com (Jim Reiss)' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?dB Message-ID: <OhSG8.222385$M7.22342423@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  J >>> > So right now I'd choose between Linux, Solaris, AIX, and IRIX, but IG >>> > can't recommend any one of those over any other.  You just get tof5 >>> > choose between which problems you want to have.e >dI >Given Nic's information below, and Bob's above, it looks the choices foraF >people wishing to go from VMS to a Unix variant have a choice betweenI >Linux or Solaris. What problems (from a VMS viewpoint) does Solaris haven >that Linux does not ?G Linux has a free DECnet implementation...Solaris has EOLed their DECnet  product, as far as I know.  H For programmers, the fact that x86 Linux is little-endian and CISC-based( can be a help in migrating applications.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:53:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?n, Message-ID: <3CEC0542.5671251D@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:= > Why do oyu find Linux on S390 to be a "truly awfull idea"??w  L It is just strange to imagine Linux on 3270 terminals, SNA network, operator
 consoles etc.   M What sort of user interface is Linux capable on when running on IBM mainframecJ ? IS it capable of ethernet and supporting X terminals ? Has IBM ever beenE able to support full duplex serial communications on its mainframes ?t  J It is a bit like MVS supporting stuff such as FTP. You wonder what sort ofJ hack they had to do to allow on-the-fly file creation with correct datasetF attributes to make the file usable on MVS. (for instance a text file).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:02:46 +0200'9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? ' Message-ID: <3CEC0776.387FF501@aaa.com>n  ? I'v used different TCPIP tools between MVS and VMS a lot, and ITC can't find it strange in any way. All tools are there. FTP is easy.f@ If you need any special allocation of your dataset, the commands@ are there right in the FTP server. This is from a real example : (a copy VMS -> MVS)r  # $ ftp lmeb /user=uuuuuu /pass=ppppp / quote "site lrecl=107 blocksize=27927 recfm=fb"e, put mylocalfile.txt  "'HLQ.AAA.BBB.CCC(+1)'" exit $i  8 The quote site command have aprox 70-75 differnt options8 you can use to change the environment on the MVS system.  " Not realy a "hack", if you ask me.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.i           JF Mezei wrote:c >  > L > It is a bit like MVS supporting stuff such as FTP. You wonder what sort ofL > hack they had to do to allow on-the-fly file creation with correct datasetH > attributes to make the file usable on MVS. (for instance a text file).   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:44:33 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?-G Message-ID: <5jUG8.83444$t8_.8688@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>-  G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote inc5 message news:rxg$rFG$D6MB@eisner.encompasserve.org...2 > H > And speaking for myself, I would be very uneasy about recommending BSDG > as the preferred Unix, regardless of any technical advantages, unlessh those$G > advantages turn out to be overwhelming. From where I am, a VMS person J > moving more and more into Unix, it's simply too much of an unknown to be  > considered for production use. >tK Notwithstanding the dearth of commercial support offerings for BSD, some oftI the arguements you raise in the paragraph above apply equally well to VMSeK from the perspective of a unix or Windows addministrator, or the person whoeA signs the cheques to purchase new hardware and operating systems.n  J And that my friends is why I come back to the issue of what HP is going toJ do about marketing to *NEW* non-VMS customers and create a proper academic
 programme.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.283 ************************