1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 23 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 284       Contents:2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?F Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? Also foreign languaF Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? Plus European languF Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? Plus European langu7 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? [OT] < (OT) RE: dubbing (was: RE: "Best" programming language on VM7 Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...  Another way Dell can hurt HP Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64 Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64 Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64 Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64 Current Version of VMS's TCPIP" Re: Current Version of VMS's TCPIP! Re: Deleting intrusion records... ! Re: Deleting intrusion records... ! Re: Deleting intrusion records... 5 Re: Did Anybody See This Column in This Week's EWEEK? A dubbing (was: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?) E Re: dubbing (was: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?) - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning % Re: Getting remote host name with DCL % Re: Getting remote host name with DCL . Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC. Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC, Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported? Is ANALUAF.COM avail?  Re: Log file size  Re: Log file size  Re: Log file size  Re: Log file size  Re: Log file size  Re: mkisofs for Vax  Re: mkisofs for Vax  Re: More DECNET help please!!  Re: More DECNET help please!!  Re: More DECNET help please!!  Re: More DECNET help please!! G Re: MPE "clusters" (Was: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate'  Re: Multinet Hobbyist PAKS Re: No new Alpha salesL off-topic: dubbing (was: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?" Re: OpenVMS times in excel Re: OpenVMS wizard RE: OpenVMS wizard Re: OpenVMS wizard Re: OpenVMS wizard Re: OpenVMS wizard Printing configuration: Re: Programming errors, was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX6 Programming errors, was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX/ Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ?? / Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ?? / Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ?? / Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??  Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT  Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT  Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT 0 Re: TIme conversions between C-time and VMS-time0 Re: TIme conversions between C-time and VMS-time6 Re: VCB02-C (8 plane colour graphics) in a VAX 4705A ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? xml and all that Re: xml and all that Re: xml and all that Re: xml and all that Re: xml and all that Re: xml and all that RE: xml and all that  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 08:20:08 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 6 Message-ID: <20020523082008.18002.qmail@gacracker.org>  B On 22 May 2002, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:   <snip>  
 >Old joke:G >   What do you call a person who speaks three languages??  Trilingual. F >   What do you call a person who speaks two languages??    Bilingual.E >   What do you call a person who speaks one language??     American.  > C >And that joke has been around since at least my grade school days.   C I've heard the same, but with the last replaced with "English". The H response of an Englishman in the bar at the time was "Not true, we speak English *and* Rubbish".      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:33:58 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? ; Message-ID: <01KI2BERNF6Q984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   8 > Strange. I learned that dubbing was forced by Hitler.   D I don't know, perhaps.  No contradiction to it having been invented 
 elsewhere.   > Anyway, dubbing is a crime.    Agreed.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 07:02:11 -0700" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe); Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? = Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0205230602.1f8a30e4@posting.google.com>   d bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<acgbls$e5k$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>...7 > In article <3CEB1E85.8A126B45@DigitalSynergyInc.com>, 8 >  Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com> writes:; > |> "Only a dog barks in one language" (Hungarian proverb)  > |>  T > |> Each language has its merits and demerits. Only the French believe there is one > |> "best" language.  >  > This is a joke, right?  C Probably not. I'm what you would call "language challeged" (it's my C wife that knows 3 or 4 other than English). From what I've heard if C you go to most European countries (Italy in particular) and make an B attempt to speak the language they will be thrilled (no matter how? badly you "botch it") that you made the attempt. Same in French E speaking Canada from what I've heard (they'll love you for making the = effort). YMMV ... but it's my understanding that the above is C typically not the case with a foreigner attempting French in France < unless they've been exposed to French from a very early age.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 14:02:07 GMT 3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 5 Message-ID: <3CECF669.6E93CE73@DigitalSynergyInc.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:  7 > In article <3CEB1E85.8A126B45@DigitalSynergyInc.com>, 8 >  Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com> writes:; > |> "Only a dog barks in one language" (Hungarian proverb)  > |>T > |> Each language has its merits and demerits. Only the French believe there is one > |> "best" language.  > F > This is a joke, right??  The most famous mono-lingual country in theG > world is the USA.  All of Europe, including the French, has mandatory E > foreign language education and most of the Germans of college age I H > knew when I lived there spoke at least three and often four languages. >  > |>C > |> If you  really want to be a proficient programmer, learn many.  > D > One of the questions we always end out fielding during open-housesB > here is, "What programming language do you teach?"  We then haveD > to explain that we don't teach any programming language.  We teachA > software engineering and programming principles.  A language is ? > merely a tool applied to a task after you have mastered those 
 > principles.  >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  T The French reference was mostly a joke, but the question is what language is "best", not T what is the only language. I was told once in a business meeting that for a web site hostedS in France, the home page had to be in French and the company I was negotiating with  had = moved their site to another country rather than translate it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:58:50 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? % Message-ID: <3CED1E7E.4090605@hp.com>    Dan O'Reilly wrote: L > NOT. true!  The US is hardly mono-lingual, in that a) there is no officialK > language of the US, in spite of other beliefs, and b) in several states,   > for M > example, officials in many departments (such as education and welfare) must  > be bilingual in Spanish.  G Here in Boston, once you get inside of US Customs all signs are mostly  = in English only.  Not very friendly for non-English speakers.   @ My biggest gripe is about US coins.  They don't numbers on them!         --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 10:49:09 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? - Message-ID: <qZHFReKLZsvm@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   & In article <3CED1E7E.4090605@hp.com>, +    John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:    > Dan O'Reilly wrote: M >> NOT. true!  The US is hardly mono-lingual, in that a) there is no official 0 >> language of the US, in spite of other beliefs  H    I'm curious what that means? What language is the goverment run in atG the "official" level ( ie what language is used in the legislatures and 	 courts )?    >, and b) in several states,   >> forN >> example, officials in many departments (such as education and welfare) must >> be bilingual in Spanish.  > G     That's not quite the same as saying Spanish is an official language D though, it's more akin to acknowledging that significant portions of2 their client base speak only a "foreign" language.  I > Here in Boston, once you get inside of US Customs all signs are mostly  ? > in English only.  Not very friendly for non-English speakers.  >   C    Here in Canada ( which is officially bi-lingual ) you rarely see E a sign in French outside of Quebec ( and to a lesser extent you don't C see English signs inside Quebec ), the main exception being federal 0 government offices, airports and national parks.  %    OTOH most packaging is bi-lingual.    B > My biggest gripe is about US coins.  They don't numbers on them! >   >    My biggest gripe with US money is the paper currency is all the same colour :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 02 15:51:12 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) O Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? Also foreign langua ) Message-ID: <hbFAJxKGGy0I@elias.decus.ch>   _ In article <acgbls$e5k$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 7 > In article <3CEB1E85.8A126B45@DigitalSynergyInc.com>, 8 >  Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com> writes:; > |> "Only a dog barks in one language" (Hungarian proverb)  > |>  T > |> Each language has its merits and demerits. Only the French believe there is one > |> "best" language.  > F > This is a joke, right??  The most famous mono-lingual country in theG > world is the USA.  All of Europe, including the French, has mandatory E > foreign language education and most of the Germans of college age I H > knew when I lived there spoke at least three and often four languages. > , And the UK isn't doing too well either. FromE http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/newsid_1813000/1813795.stm   0 "The ambassadors from Germany, Italy and Spain -1 backed by the French envoy - claimed one in 10 UK 3 businesses was losing contracts because of workers' $ inability to speak other languages."  - and despite govt assurances to the contrary :   / "Their concerns were raised as the government's 1 Green Paper on changes to the 14-19 curriculum in 6 England paved the way for pupils to drop subjects such/ as modern languages and science to take up more  work-related courses.   5 The number of subjects children have to study will be . cut to the core subjects of maths, English and information technology."  < Sheesh! From my own experience of working in Europe I cannot< stress strongly enough the advantages of being able to speak; the main European languages. I have heard of many instances > where contracts have been awarded to inferior suppliers simply? because they had local language skills. I suspect that 1 in 10    figure is a gross underestimate.  @ I will never forget a careers evening when I was at school, when? a banker told me that English was the international language of = banking, so my language abilities would give me absolutely no ! advantage in banking that career.    How wrong that idiot was!    > |>  C > |> If you  really want to be a proficient programmer, learn many.  > D > One of the questions we always end out fielding during open-housesB > here is, "What programming language do you teach?"  We then haveD > to explain that we don't teach any programming language.  We teachB > software engineering and programming principles.  A language is ? > merely a tool applied to a task after you have mastered those 
 > principles.  >   
 Well said.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 02 16:25:37 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) O Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? Plus European langu ) Message-ID: <PGuGRKp+r7SZ@elias.decus.ch>   w In article <01KI1D16EQQY96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: M >> > Each language has its merits and demerits. Only the French believe there  >> > is one "best" language.   >>   >> This is a joke, right??   >  > Probably not.  > B >> The most famous mono-lingual country in the world is the USA.   >  > True.  > F >> All of Europe, including the French, has mandatory foreign language
 >> education   > K > True.  However, it is also true that the French are famous for expecting  G > foreigners to speak French, whereas other countries tend to be a bit  K > more lenient.  Also, there is more political opposition in France to the  A > dilution of French (mainly by English) than in other countries.  >   E In my experience, the French dislike someone simply assuming they can K speak English. If you at least _try_ to speak their language, they are much 3 more amenable to switching to English, if they can.     I >> and most of the Germans of college age I knew when I lived there spoke , >> at least three and often four languages.  > C > Sounds about right.  Even better are countries like Finland, the  I > Scandinavian countries, the Low Countries etc.  The educational system  K > is probably a bit better than in Germany and, BIG DIFFERENCE, television  I > and cinema are usually not dubbed, whereas in Germany they usually are.   O Watching TV in your own language (or one you understand well) with subtitles in J the language you are trying to learn is a simply great vocabulary builder.  F > (Dubbing, as an alternative to subtitling, was actually invented in K > southern Italy back in the 1930s since there were some illiterate people  J > in the audience.  Thus, rather embarrassing that Germany continues with I > this practice today.  To be fair, it's not all idealism in the case of  J > non-dubbing countries: since dubbing is much more expensive, it is only 6 > worth the trouble for relatively large populations.)  K Interesting. And some dubbing is simply awful. 20 years ago we used to make N great sport out of the German dubbing on TV series (presumably done as cheaplyF as possible). See someone ranting for a couple of minutes - the dubbedO equivalent: "Nein". The same few actors were used across series so another game N was to match the current speaker with his/her character in a different series.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:52:10 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>O Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? Plus European languV. Message-ID: <3CED102A.D42D55B0@mindspring.com>   Paul Sture wrote:e  G > In my experience, the French dislike someone simply assuming they cannM > speak English. If you at least _try_ to speak their language, they are muche5 > more amenable to switching to English, if they can.B  B I absolutely concur. I always try to "open" in the native language> (wherever), and when they realize I'm incompetent :-), they're> usually more than willing to help the poor American in English: if they can, else in whatever communications method we can devise.   < The example that sticks in my mind most prominently was when< I was trying to find the Post Office in Aix en Provence ("Le< Poste", right?) I asked a woman on the street and we finally; worked it out that she would speak slowly in French and I'ds9 reply slowly in French if I could, else English. And evenI; though it was down the road past the roundabout, turn left,V6 and on the right, I did get there and my postcards got posted Par Avion.r    Q > Watching TV in your own language (or one you understand well) with subtitles inkL > the language you are trying to learn is a simply great vocabulary builder.  F I also concur, but guardedly. Frequently, I've found that on DVDs, theB foreign language dubbing and the foreign language sub-titles don'tF agree. And, of course, the translation from English often is radicallyK different, especially where cultural idiom, metaphors, etc. are being used.PE I doubt that "I'm gonna get them doors open if it hair lips everybodye, on Bear Creek" translates all that well. :-)   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:45:51 +0200 ' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> @ Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? [OT]( Message-ID: <3CECF28F.4620B084@spam.not>   Phillip Helbig wrote:P > 9 > > Strange. I learned that dubbing was forced by Hitler.S > E > I don't know, perhaps.  No contradiction to it having been inventede > elsewhere.  @ Yup. I was concerned with the reason why it has been started in < Germany because as opposed to Italy there weren't that many / iliterate paying people to attract with movies.    > > Anyway, dubbing is a crime.e > 	 > Agreed.e   :-)s  @ I would like to know in which countries with a sufficient large B population dubbing is used. I thought that in Spain dubbing isn't  used.d  1 Is there a news group appropriate for this topic?o   -- e7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequencep   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:44:28 -0400r* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: (OT) RE: dubbing (was: RE: "Best" programming language on VMe- Message-ID: <0033000065249967000002L072*@MHS>   H =0AI recall that in the move "The Longest Day" the Americans, British, =
 French and Germansn" all spoke in their native tongues.  < (I disclaim all responsibility for any linguistic inferences7  that may be drawn from the abovereferenced statement.)n   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt% Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:14 AMcB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETE Subject: dubbing (was: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for new     H > In my experience, the French dislike someone simply assuming they can=  H > speak English. If you at least _try_ to speak their language, they ar= ec: > much more amenable to switching to English, if they can.  F True.  When travelling in a country whose language one does not speak,H the least one can learn is "do you speak <some language I know>" in the=  0 native language (as well as possible responses).  D > Watching TV in your own language (or one you understand well) withE > subtitles in the language you are trying to learn is a simply great2 > vocabulary builder.e   Vice versa is even better.  0 > Interesting. And some dubbing is simply awful.  D There are two problems.  One is that a good translation might not beD possible since it has to pass (more or less, often less :-) ) to theC motion of the lips.  The other is that often the production companyp> tries to save money buy hiring a low-quality translator.  WithH subtitles, perhaps because the total costs are much lower (no actors to=  D pay), there is less temptation to save here and a good translator is hired.   > 20 years ago we used toh9 > make great sport out of the German dubbing on TV seriesh   I still do so today.  :-|k   > (presumably doneH > as cheaply as possible). See someone ranting for a couple of minutes = - E > the dubbed equivalent: "Nein". The same few actors were used across.F > series so another game was to match the current speaker with his/her" > character in a different series.  H Right.  The actor who dubbed Magnum (as in Magnum, P.I.) shows up quite=   often.  A Even if I have never seen a show before, I can hear whether it iseF dubbed.  This is because it is not dubbed in normal German, but ratherD the actors try to capture the intonation etc of the original actors,B speaking in a manner no-one in Germany would speak.  I can see theE motivation, but if it has been translated anyway, it is obviously notl/ the original, so why try to pretend that it is?m  H There are exceptions.  The director Caroline Link has made some films i= ntE German (more or less---one I saw was partly in sign language since itnD concerned a child of deaf parents, and the other was in a variety ofB languages because it chronicled a family who moved from Germany toF Africa and there spoke both with the natives and with the British) butB with actors who didn't speak German.  The part was dubbed.  I only! noticed when reading the credits.   H By the way, the first of the films above, "Jenseits der Stille" ("Beyon= d'H Silence") is interesting for the following reason: Quite apart from the=  C story it tells, I think it captures "real life" in Germany (at thataH time) better than any other film I have seen.  Probably because it has = a C different emphasis, the "real life" managed to sink in undistorted.mH (Something similar can be observed in James Bond films: Probably becaus= elB the emphasis is on the women, gadgets, exotic locations, cars etc,E normal life, when it occurs in the films, is right on the money.  TheiA clothes, the music, the hairstyles etc are genuine.  Normal filmsvB probably (unconsciously) change reality to keep from being boring,B whereas this is not an issue if there is a different emphasis.  OfA course, with the Bond films, the fact that one can compare things = between now and 40(!) years ago is an additional advantage.)=l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:06:32 +0000>  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com@ Subject: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...: Message-ID: <OF71BF52E2.D90AA93B-ON00256BC2.0042412B@btyp>  E Probably fairly futile advertising the fact here, but isn't that whata 'networking' is all about?   ;^D   * Anyway, unemployed from the end of June...  G Someone said to me last night 'there's always a light at the end of the 4 tunnel', thing is, I can't find the tunnel entrance.  6 Still, every silver lining has a cloud and all that...   Cheers   Steve Sa      F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasnG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,p$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received(K this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.o  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.w  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, D RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 11:24:10 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>eD Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...6 Message-ID: <20020523112410.22316.qmail@gacracker.org>  6 On Thu, 23 May 2002, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:F >Probably fairly futile advertising the fact here, but isn't that what >'networking' is all about?t >! >;^D >i+ >Anyway, unemployed from the end of June...  >iH >Someone said to me last night 'there's always a light at the end of the5 >tunnel', thing is, I can't find the tunnel entrance.n  E I got told that the light at the end of the tunnel is a taxman with ae torch.  7 >Still, every silver lining has a cloud and all that...y   Good luck on the job hunt.     Doc. -- o6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netA   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:24:45 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>:% Subject: Another way Dell can hurt HPuH Message-ID: <xB9H8.76883$ah_.36284@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20020 523/tc_nm/tech_dell_dc_2  3 Bear Stearns Says Dell Considering Printer Businessy Thu May 23,12:43 PM ET   By Caroline Humero  I NEW YORK (Reuters) - No. 2 personal computer maker Dell Computer Corp. isfL considering getting into the printer business, a Wall Street analyst said on	 Thursday.t    E Bear Stearns analyst Andrew Neff, who met with Dell founder and Chief F Executive Michael Dell on Wednesday in Austin, Texas, said Dell wasn'tJ specific but noted that the company wants to capture the recurring revenue from ink cartridges.  H Neff said Round Rock, Texas-based Dell could acquire a company, although that's not really its style.  L More likely, it could develop a relationship with another vendor to allow itG to put Dell's name on a printer it makes or make a deal so it can get ar share of ink revenue, he said.  I "There's nothing new to announce," Dell spokesman Mike Maher said, noting . that Dell is evaluating products all the time.  I Dell lost its spot as the No. 1 PC maker earlier this month when computersG and printer maker Hewlett-Packard Co. bought competitor Compaq ComputerfJ Corp. Dell isn't making much of its No. 2 status and said it still has theC lowest-cost business model in which it sells directly to customers.e  C One investor said getting into the printer business could be a goodlH long-term move for the company, enabling it to expand its reach into the profitable corporate market.  I "It makes sense," said Alan Loewenstein, co-portfolio manager of the JohnMD Hancock Technology Fund. "If you are ordering a PC then you also areK probably ordering a printer, and if they can control that they can increase. margins.  L "They wouldn't be manufacturing. They would be outsourcing probably, so they1 should be able to reduce costs on them," he said.i  L Talk about Dell getting into the printer business, which is dominated in theI United States by Hewlett-Packard Co. , Lexmark International Inc. , Xeroxs- Corp. and Epson America, has surfaced before.o  K Robertson Stephens analyst Eric Rothdeutsch in early April said he believedAE Dell was working on a deal with Lexmark. Dell President Kevin RollinseJ responded by saying that nothing was imminent and that Dell was talking to lots of printer companies.  I Dell, which is known for low-priced commodity computers, resells Lexmark,/G Epson and HP printers. It has recently expanded into selling networkinga7 switches, digital projectors and data storage machines.   L Neff said that if Dell enters the printer business and does things right, itH could hurt HP, whose profits come mainly from printers. Neff has a "buy" rating on Dell.r  F Dell shares fell 42 cents to $26.96 in early-afternoon Nasdaq trading.  " ----------------------------------  I So with the potential of lower printer division profits, if I were Carly,n< I'd be focused on what she has stated her key business areas@ are....'industry standard' PC's and servers, printers, and unix.  G Maybe when the latest port is done they can sell off the VMS group. ButwJ maybe by then it'll run on three dead processor families - VAX, Alpha, and IA64.f   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:09:10 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>i! Subject: Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64g- Message-ID: <acibjm$6o6$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>   3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:v  J :   We have explicitly NOT committed to providing support and testing for H :   mixed-architecture clusters with VAX and IA-64 boxes -- if there is I :   call for this when we get closer, we'll look at it.  We WILL continue L :   to provide mixed-architecture cluster support with VAX and Alpha boxes, G :   and we will also add support for clusters of IA-64 and Alpha boxes.s  I So an Alpha machine A can be clustered against a VAX V and the same A cane% also be clustered against an IA-64 I?i9 And thereby the machines V and I are in the same cluster?i  G Isn't there some rules about connectivity that say that I and V must be  able to connect directly?n  I I haven't got the VAXcluster principles book (Davis) in front of me right-B now (got it at home), but I remember something about connectivity.   -- .
 -Roar Throns    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:43:21 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com><! Subject: Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64b; Message-ID: <01KI2DSCPRQA96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>m  G > So an Alpha machine A can be clustered against a VAX V and the same A G > can also be clustered against an IA-64 I?  And thereby the machines Vr! > and I are in the same cluster?    H I don't think the transitive property applies to cluster configurations.  H Think of software versions: X might be supported together with Y, and Y E supported (or have been supported) together with Z, but that doesn't e5 imply that X and Z in the same cluster are supported.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:48:53 +0200e) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>o! Subject: Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64y/ Message-ID: <3CECC915.4070009@xs4all.nospam.nl>m   Roar Thron=E6s wrote:d5 > Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:. >=20J > :   We have explicitly NOT committed to providing support and testing f= or=20gJ > :   mixed-architecture clusters with VAX and IA-64 boxes -- if there is= =20wJ > :   call for this when we get closer, we'll look at it.  We WILL contin= ueJ > :   to provide mixed-architecture cluster support with VAX and Alpha bo= xes,=20tJ > :   and we will also add support for clusters of IA-64 and Alpha boxes.=   >=20J > So an Alpha machine A can be clustered against a VAX V and the same A c= an' > also be clustered against an IA-64 I?e; > And thereby the machines V and I are in the same cluster?  >=20J > Isn't there some rules about connectivity that say that I and V must be=   > able to connect directly?g  F True. Did Hoff say something else? The way I understand it, is that=20G clusters consisting of all three architectures will not be tested by=20eB OpenVMS engineering. That means that they will not support such=20I configurations. It does not mean that such configurations do not work.=20 H Which ever way, all the normal connectivity rules will apply to every=20( configuration, whether supported or not.  J > I haven't got the VAXcluster principles book (Davis) in front of me rig= htD > now (got it at home), but I remember something about connectivity.  	 Bart Zorns   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:22:56 -0500u& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>! Subject: Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64o8 Message-ID: <3lupeushlcl2qf2fq6thcfapooagf68c4u@4ax.com>  6 On Thu, 23 May 2002 09:09:10 +0000 (UTC), Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:  4 >Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote: >mK >:   We have explicitly NOT committed to providing support and testing for nI >:   mixed-architecture clusters with VAX and IA-64 boxes -- if there is 4J >:   call for this when we get closer, we'll look at it.  We WILL continueM >:   to provide mixed-architecture cluster support with VAX and Alpha boxes, _H >:   and we will also add support for clusters of IA-64 and Alpha boxes. > J >So an Alpha machine A can be clustered against a VAX V and the same A can& >also be clustered against an IA-64 I?: >And thereby the machines V and I are in the same cluster? >lH >Isn't there some rules about connectivity that say that I and V must be >able to connect directly? >iJ >I haven't got the VAXcluster principles book (Davis) in front of me rightC >now (got it at home), but I remember something about connectivity.?  < A machine can not be a member of more than one cluster (at a time/boot).s  A If A and V are clustered, and if I is clustered with A, then I issD clustered with V as well, and they *all* must be able to communicate5 over some common SCS path (e.g., CI, FDDI, Ethernet).p  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqn- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 18:37:55 +0200t* From: "Zoldric Caff" <zoldric@hotmail.com>' Subject: Current Version of VMS's TCPIPD/ Message-ID: <1022171896.116554@ftp.adept.co.za>n  J The servers at the site where is work  are currently running TCPIP 5.1 eco 3.  When will TCPIP 5.3 be released.  E Where can I find a roadmap on HP's proposed development of the stack.t   Thanks Zoldricm   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:39:21 GMTt* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: Current Version of VMS's TCPIP 5 Message-ID: <230520021333543720%paul.anderson@hp.com>c  < In article <1022171896.116554@ftp.adept.co.za>, Zoldric Caff <zoldric@hotmail.com> wrote:  " > When will TCPIP 5.3 be released.  G TCP/IP Services V5.3 is shipping now.  It's on the Q2 Software Productsn Library CDs.  G > Where can I find a roadmap on HP's proposed development of the stack.n  E    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htmp   Paul   -- h  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringg   Hewlett-Packard Companyi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:24:54 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Re: Deleting intrusion records...) Message-ID: <3CECA756.D03A8DE8@127.0.0.1>d   Shiva MahaDeva wrote:u > E > How can I delete intrusion records in OpenVMS V5.5-2 ? The command:r > ( >  $ Delete/intru DRVAX5::telnet_acs0542 >  > It doesnt work !    $ DELETE/INTRU * 0   will work and delete all...e   -- p( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:16:48 +0100 4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>* Subject: Re: Deleting intrusion records...8 Message-ID: <07gpeucrjic35auhvk9m3bp19g476d0o51@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 23 May 2002 09:24:54 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Shiva MahaDeva wrote: >> eF >> How can I delete intrusion records in OpenVMS V5.5-2 ? The command: >>  ) >>  $ Delete/intru DRVAX5::telnet_acs0542  >> g >> It doesnt work ! >C >$ DELETE/INTRU *  >: >will work and delete all...  C Not at 5.5-2 it won't :-)  The problem is almost certainly the casesF sensitivity.  Plonk the "source" in quotes and DELE/INTRU will zap it.     	John    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 10:14:09 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)* Subject: Re: Deleting intrusion records...= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205230914.469e0df0@posting.google.com>   r contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) wrote in message news:<ddf392ea.0205221616.70e17b8a@posting.google.com>...E > How can I delete intrusion records in OpenVMS V5.5-2 ? The command:e > ( >  $ Delete/intru DRVAX5::telnet_acs0542 >  > It doesnt work !t > D > Which SYSGEN parameter can I modify to disable intrusion records ?. > ( I forgot this command... LGI_BRK_TMO  ???) > Thanks in advance...    F Here's a command procedure that will let you delete intrustion records@ by number. It lists all intrusion records and numbers them, then3 prompts you for the number of the record to delete.e  F It's a VMS SHARE file, so just cut and paste it to its own file on the> VAX or Alpha and run it via @. You will get INTR.COM. Just runF INTR.COM and follow the instructions. (I used VMS SHARE because Google@ only allows lines up to 70 chars long and this one has a maximum record length of 91 bytes.)o  B I wrote this years ago (13-OCT-1998) on a VMS v5.5-2 system, so itE should work fine. Comments, suggestions, and bug reports are welcome.s  $ If you get a couple of DCL warnings:  F %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \UK\ F %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling
  \BLOCKS"\  D when running the share file, not to worry. The file is reconstructed7 properly anyway. As a check, it should have 72 records.s   Disclaimer: jmho Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com    r6 $! ------------------ CUT HERE -----------------------/ $ v='f$verify(f$trnlnm("SHARE_UNPACK_VERIFY"))'b $! $! This archive created: $!  Name : INTRn $!  By   : feldman@IDS03" $!  Date : 23-MAY-2002 16:57:55.01F $!  Using: VMS_SHARE 8.5-1, (C) 1993 Andy Harper, Kings College London UK $!: $! Credit is due to these people for their original ideas:" $!    James Gray, Michael Bednarek $! $! To unpack this archive:A $!    Minimum of VMS 4.4 (VAX) / OpenVMS 1.0 (Alpha) is required.hB $!    Remove the headers of the first part, up to `cut here' line.* $!    Execute file as a command procedure. $!9 $! The following file(s) will be created after unpacking:f $!       1. INTR.COM;1 $! $ set="set"=% $ set symbol/scope=(nolocal,noglobal)f* $ f="SYS$SCRATCH:."+f$getjpi("","PID")+";"/ $ if f$trnlnm("SHARE_UNPACK") .nes. "" then $ -G!  f=f$parse("SHARE_UNPACK_TEMP",f) $ $ e="write sys$error  ""%UNPACK"", "$ $ w="write sys$output ""%UNPACK"", "6 $ if .not. f$trnlnm("SHARE_UNPACK_LOG") then $ w = "!"/ $ if f$getsyi("CPU") .gt. 127 then $ goto startl $ ve=f$getsyi("version")7 $ if ve-f$extract(0,1,ve) .ges. "4.4" then $ goto startc* $ e "-E-OLDVER, Must run at least VMS 4.4" $ v=f$verify(v)o	 $ exit 44.M $unpack:subroutine!P1=file,P2=chksum,P3=attrib,P4=size,P5=fileno,P6=filetotalb+ $ if f$parse(P1) .nes. "" then $ goto dirokr $ dn=f$parse(P1,,,"DIRECTORY")) $ w "-I-CREDIR, Creating directory ''dn'"a $ create/dir 'dn'i $ if $status then $ goto dirok8 $ e "-E-CREDIRFAIL, Unable to create ''dn' File skipped"
 $ delete 'f'*l $ exit $dirok:  $ x=f$search(P1)' $ if x .eqs. "" then $ goto file_absent:+ $ e "-W-EXISTS, File ''P1' exists. Skipped"m
 $ delete 'f'*h $ exit
 $file_absent:MD $ w "-I-UNPACK, Unpacking ", P5, " of ", P6, " - ", P1, " - ", P4, " Blocks"B $ n=P1 $ if P3 .nes. "" then $ n=fr7 $ if .not. f$verify() then $ define/user sys$output nl:i: $ EDIT/TPU/NOSEC/NODIS/COM=SYS$INPUT/NOJOURNAL 'f'/OUT='n' PROCEDURE GetHex(s,p)LOCAL/ x1,x2;x1:=INDEX(t,SUBSTR(s,p,1))-1;x2:=INDEX(t, E SUBSTR(s,p+1,1))-1;RETURN 16*x1+x2;ENDPROCEDURE;PROCEDURE SkipPartsepe LOCAL m;C LOOP m:=MARK(NONE);EXITIF m=END_OF(CURRENT_BUFFER);DELETE(m);EXITIF_ INDEX(6 ERASE_LINE,"-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+")=1;ENDLOOP;ENDPROCEDURE;< PROCEDURE ProcessLine LOCAL c,s,l,b,n,p;s := ERASE_LINE;c := SUBSTR(s,1,1);s :=?  s-c;IF c = "X" THEN SPLIT_LINE; ENDIF;MOVE_HORIZONTAL(-1);l :=d LENGTH(s);p :=C  1;LOOP EXITIF p > l;c := SUBSTR(s,p,1);p := p+1;CASE c FROM ' ' TOs	 '`' ['`']o. : COPY_TEXT(ASCII(GetHex(s,p))); p:=p+2;[' ']: p:=p+1;[INRANGE,OUTRANGE] D : COPY_TEXT(c);ENDCASE;ENDLOOP;ENDPROCEDURE;PROCEDURE Decode(b)LOCAL m;3 POSITION(BEGINNING_OF(b));LOOP m:=MARK(NONE);EXITIFa m=END_OF(b);DELETE(m);A IF INDEX(CURRENT_LINE,"+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-")=1 THEN SkipPartSep;ELSEL ProcessLine;N MOVE_HORIZONTAL(1);ENDIF;ENDLOOP;ENDPROCEDURE;SET(FACILITY_NAME,"UNPACK");SET(F SUCCESS,OFF);SET(INFORMATIONAL,OFF);t:="0123456789ABCDEF";f:=GET_INFO(G COMMAND_LINE,"file_name");o:=CREATE_BUFFER(f,f);Decode(o);WRITE_FILE(o,W+ GET_INFO(COMMAND_LINE,"output_file"));QUIT;- $ if p3 .eqs. "" then $ goto dlM $ open/write fdl &f0 $ write fdl "RECORD" $ write fdl P3 $ close fdld2 $ w "-I-CONVRFM, Converting record format to ", P3 $ convert/fdl='f' 'f'-1 'f'.% $ fa=f$getdvi(f$parse(f),"ALLDEVNAM")i& $ Pa=f$getdvi(f$parse(P1),"ALLDEVNAM")/ $ if fa .eqs. Pa then $ rename &f 'f$parse(P1)'r- $ if fa .nes. Pa then $ copy &f 'f$parse(P1)'t $dl: delete 'f'* $ checksum 'P1't( $ if checksum$checksum .nes. P2 then $ --   e "-E-CHKSMFAIL, Checksum of ''P1' failed."a $ exit $ endsubroutinea $start:  $! $ create 'f' X$!+`20INTR.COM  X$!'M X$!`20`20PURPOSE:`20To`20list`20records`20in`20the`20breakin`20database`20andn V`20to`20deletetA X$!`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20any`20of`20them`20by`20numbert X$! N X$!------`20`20`20Intrusion`20`20`20`20`20`20`20Type`20`20`20`20`20`20`20Count  V`20`20Expiration`20`20`20SourceN X$!------`20`20`20`20`20`20TERM_USER`20`20`20`20INTRUDER`20`20`20`20`20`206`20I V`20`2017:36:30.46`20`20WT66D/PORT_8:DELOSREYES_M`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20tN X$!------`20`20`20Intrusion`20`20`20`20`20`20`20Type`20`20`20`20`20`20`20Count  V`20`20Expiration`20`20`20SourceM X$!------`20`20`20`20`20`20NETWORK`20`20`20`20`20`20SUSPECT`20`20`20`20`20`20dM V`201`20`20`2010:01:24.38`20`20TELNET::9F661672`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20e V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20 X$!------`20`20`20 X$!+ X$!r+ X$`20`20`20SHOW`20INTRUSION/OUTPUT=INTR.TMPrE X$`20`20`20IF`20(F$TRNLNM("FILE")`20.NES.`20"")`20THEN`20CLOSE`20FILEt& X$`20`20`20OPEN/READ`20FILE`20INTR.TMP. X$`20`20`20READ/END=_END`20`20FILE`20`20HEADER& X$`20`20`20WRITE`20SYS$OUTPUT`20HEADER X$`20`20`20N`20=`200 X$_LOOP:) X$`20`20`20READ/END=_END`20`20FILE`20LINE  X$`20`20`20N`20=`20N`20+`201! X$`20`20`20LINE_'N'`20=`20LINE`20r0 X$`20`20`20LENGTH`20`20`20=`20F$LENGTH(LINE_'N')1 X$`20`20`20LOCATION`20=`20F$LOCATE("::",LINE_'N')a X$!l* X$`20`20`20IF`20(LOCATION`20.NE.`20LENGTH) X$`20`20`20THEN G X$!`20Convert`20a`204-byte`20Hex`20number`20to`20decimal`20IP`20addresse X$! 8 X$`20`20`20HEXSTR`20=`20F$EXTRACT(LOCATION+2,8,LINE_'N'), X$`20`20`20LEN_HEXSTR`20=`20F$LENGTH(HEXSTR)! X$`20`20`20!SH`20SYM`20LEN_HEXSTRM7 X$`20`20`20BYTE4`20=`20F$EXTRACT(LEN_HEXSTR-2,2,HEXSTR)t7 X$`20`20`20BYTE3`20=`20F$EXTRACT(LEN_HEXSTR-4,2,HEXSTR)i7 X$`20`20`20BYTE2`20=`20F$EXTRACT(LEN_HEXSTR-6,2,HEXSTR)a7 X$`20`20`20BYTE1`20=`20F$EXTRACT(LEN_HEXSTR-8,2,HEXSTR)i X$`20`20`20!SH`20SYM`20BYTE%7 X$`20`20`20NUM4`20=`20F$STRING(F$INTEGER("%X''BYTE4'"))d7 X$`20`20`20NUM3`20=`20F$STRING(F$INTEGER("%X''BYTE3'"))t7 X$`20`20`20NUM2`20=`20F$STRING(F$INTEGER("%X''BYTE2'"))l7 X$`20`20`20NUM1`20=`20F$STRING(F$INTEGER("%X''BYTE1'"))t X$`20`20`20!SH`20SYM`20NUM%c" X$`20`20`20IPADR`20=`20NUM1`20`09-# X`09`20`20`20`20+`20"."`20+`20NUM2- # X`09`20`20`20`20+`20"."`20+`20NUM3-o" X`09`20`20`20`20+`20"."`20+`20NUM4 X$`20`20`20!SH`20SYM`20IPADR; X$`20`20`20LINE_'N'`5BLOCATION+2,17`5D`20:=`20`5B'IPADR'`5Ds X$`20`20`20ENDIF X$!o X$`20`20`20!SH`20SYM`20LOCATIONlK X$`20`20`20SOURCE_'N'`20=`20F$ELEMENT(4,"`20",F$EDIT(LINE,"COMPRESS,TRIM"))hL X$`20`20`20WRITE`20SYS$OUTPUT`20F$FAO("!2SL!AS",N,F$EXTRACT(2,999,LINE_'N')) X$`20`20`20GOTO`20_LOOP  X$_END:tE X$`20`20`20IF`20(F$TRNLNM("FILE")`20.NES.`20"")`20THEN`20CLOSE`20FILEr X$`20`20`20INQUIRE`20CHOICE`20-eO X`20`20`20`20"Select`20a`20number`20to`20delete`20or`20enter`20'A'`20to`20aborts V`20`5BA`5D"? X$`20`20`20IF`20(CHOICE`20.EQS.`20"")`20THEN`20CHOICE`20=`20"A"y; X$`20`20`20IF`20(CHOICE`20.NES.`20"A")`20THEN`20GOTO`20_DELo	 X$_ABORT:eN X$`20`20`20WRITE`20SYS$OUTPUT`20"INTR.COM`20exited.`20No`20intrusion`20records V`20were`20deleted."! X$`20`20`20PURGE/NOLOG`20INTR.TMPe X$`20`20`20EXITt X$_DEL:  X$`20`20`20SET`20VERIFYo X$`20`20`20!SH`20SYM`20CHOICE ' X$`20`20`20RECORD`20=`20SOURCE_'CHOICE'eB X$`20`20`20DELETE/INTRUSION`20"''RECORD'"`20`20!`26SOURCE_'CHOICE' X$`20`20`20SET`20NOVERIFY`20! X$`20`20`20PURGE/NOLOG`20INTR.TMPe X$`20`20`20EXIT + $ call unpack INTR.COM;1 741022837 "" 5 1 1d $ v=f$verify(v)- $ exit   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:28:21 -0400,- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>h> Subject: Re: Did Anybody See This Column in This Week's EWEEK?5 Message-ID: <aciuat$ot6cu$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>t  A "Carl Karcher" <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in message 0 news:22MAY02.14114529@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu... >...F > Doubtful it's VMS since Brad Spencer talked at length about sendmail >...  K Brad  has posted in C.O.V. before saying that his honeypot is a VMS system.u, A quick search just turned up the following;  L http://groups.google.com/groups?q=VMS+Brad+Spencer&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8H &scoring=d&selm=e8ace99d.0202210853.1937d672%40posting.google.com&rnum=5  ( (Or try this to avoid wrapping problems;& http://makeashorterlink.com/?H25321CE)   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:08:55 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>bJ Subject: dubbing (was: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?); Message-ID: <01KI2O1LVQ6S96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G > In my experience, the French dislike someone simply assuming they can H > speak English. If you at least _try_ to speak their language, they are; > much more amenable to switching to English, if they can. .  G True.  When travelling in a country whose language one does not speak, 2H the least one can learn is "do you speak <some language I know>" in the 0 native language (as well as possible responses).  D > Watching TV in your own language (or one you understand well) withE > subtitles in the language you are trying to learn is a simply greato > vocabulary builder.    Vice versa is even better.  1 > Interesting. And some dubbing is simply awful. '  E There are two problems.  One is that a good translation might not be nE possible since it has to pass (more or less, often less :-) ) to the uD motion of the lips.  The other is that often the production company ? tries to save money buy hiring a low-quality translator.  With -H subtitles, perhaps because the total costs are much lower (no actors to E pay), there is less temptation to save here and a good translator is   hired.   > 20 years ago we used ton: > make great sport out of the German dubbing on TV series    I still do so today.  :-|e   > (presumably doneH > as cheaply as possible). See someone ranting for a couple of minutes -E > the dubbed equivalent: "Nein". The same few actors were used across=F > series so another game was to match the current speaker with his/her# > character in a different series. d  H Right.  The actor who dubbed Magnum (as in Magnum, P.I.) shows up quite  often.  B Even if I have never seen a show before, I can hear whether it is G dubbed.  This is because it is not dubbed in normal German, but rather  E the actors try to capture the intonation etc of the original actors, aC speaking in a manner no-one in Germany would speak.  I can see the cF motivation, but if it has been translated anyway, it is obviously not / the original, so why try to pretend that it is?I  I There are exceptions.  The director Caroline Link has made some films in lF German (more or less---one I saw was partly in sign language since it E concerned a child of deaf parents, and the other was in a variety of aC languages because it chronicled a family who moved from Germany to uG Africa and there spoke both with the natives and with the British) but  C with actors who didn't speak German.  The part was dubbed.  I only i! noticed when reading the credits.   I By the way, the first of the films above, "Jenseits der Stille" ("Beyond -H Silence") is interesting for the following reason: Quite apart from the C story it tells, I think it captures "real life" in Germany (at that3I time) better than any other film I have seen.  Probably because it has a +E different emphasis, the "real life" managed to sink in undistorted.  hI (Something similar can be observed in James Bond films: Probably because tC the emphasis is on the women, gadgets, exotic locations, cars etc, lF normal life, when it occurs in the films, is right on the money.  The B clothes, the music, the hairstyles etc are genuine.  Normal films C probably (unconsciously) change reality to keep from being boring,  C whereas this is not an issue if there is a different emphasis.  Of  B course, with the Bond films, the fact that one can compare things < between now and 40(!) years ago is an additional advantage.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:37:18 -0400e! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>IN Subject: Re: dubbing (was: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?)' Message-ID: <3CED0CAE.D026EFB8@vcu.edu>t  F When the TeleCaption decoders were on sale in the U.S. before they gotH build into the tv sets, one of the biggest groups using them were "those furriners". ;-)e  G the Erols that sold me mine said lots of people trying to learn Englishe# were getting them.  it must work!!!m  A P.S., "those furriners" have helped me loads, so it's a joke, ok?o   Jimi   Phillip Helbig wrote:n > I > > In my experience, the French dislike someone simply assuming they can-J > > speak English. If you at least _try_ to speak their language, they are< > > much more amenable to switching to English, if they can. > H > True.  When travelling in a country whose language one does not speak,I > the least one can learn is "do you speak <some language I know>" in theI2 > native language (as well as possible responses). > F > > Watching TV in your own language (or one you understand well) withG > > subtitles in the language you are trying to learn is a simply greatd > > vocabulary builder.o >  > Vice versa is even better. > 2 > > Interesting. And some dubbing is simply awful. > F > There are two problems.  One is that a good translation might not beF > possible since it has to pass (more or less, often less :-) ) to theE > motion of the lips.  The other is that often the production companyt@ > tries to save money buy hiring a low-quality translator.  WithI > subtitles, perhaps because the total costs are much lower (no actors tomF > pay), there is less temptation to save here and a good translator is > hired. >  > > 20 years ago we used to-; > > make great sport out of the German dubbing on TV series  >  > I still do so today.  :-|h >  > > (presumably doneJ > > as cheaply as possible). See someone ranting for a couple of minutes -G > > the dubbed equivalent: "Nein". The same few actors were used acrosspH > > series so another game was to match the current speaker with his/her$ > > character in a different series. > I > Right.  The actor who dubbed Magnum (as in Magnum, P.I.) shows up quiteu > often. > C > Even if I have never seen a show before, I can hear whether it is,H > dubbed.  This is because it is not dubbed in normal German, but ratherF > the actors try to capture the intonation etc of the original actors,D > speaking in a manner no-one in Germany would speak.  I can see theG > motivation, but if it has been translated anyway, it is obviously nott1 > the original, so why try to pretend that it is?O > J > There are exceptions.  The director Caroline Link has made some films inG > German (more or less---one I saw was partly in sign language since itlF > concerned a child of deaf parents, and the other was in a variety ofD > languages because it chronicled a family who moved from Germany toH > Africa and there spoke both with the natives and with the British) butD > with actors who didn't speak German.  The part was dubbed.  I only# > noticed when reading the credits.d > J > By the way, the first of the films above, "Jenseits der Stille" ("BeyondI > Silence") is interesting for the following reason: Quite apart from the7E > story it tells, I think it captures "real life" in Germany (at that J > time) better than any other film I have seen.  Probably because it has aE > different emphasis, the "real life" managed to sink in undistorted.oJ > (Something similar can be observed in James Bond films: Probably becauseD > the emphasis is on the women, gadgets, exotic locations, cars etc,G > normal life, when it occurs in the films, is right on the money.  The C > clothes, the music, the hairstyles etc are genuine.  Normal filmseD > probably (unconsciously) change reality to keep from being boring,D > whereas this is not an issue if there is a different emphasis.  OfC > course, with the Bond films, the fact that one can compare things > > between now and 40(!) years ago is an additional advantage.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:10:38 -07009" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning( Message-ID: <3CEC87DE.4B09C188@mist.com>   Jerry Leslie wrote:V > M > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr (winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU) wrote:, > I > : James Allchin appears to have just testified - with a straight face -nJ > : that the proposed antitrust-violation remedy of sharing Windows sourceG > : code with the states that are suing it would be a national securityeI > : risk since it would expose serious security holes in the OS, which is 0 > : being used in various military applications. > :HI > : This is curiously plausible, except for the obvious question of _why_ 5 > : it's being used in various military applications.1 > :  > # > You'll have to ask the U.S. Navy:p > 2 >    http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html! >    Navy carrier to run Win 2000: > F > This is the only Navy web site that mentions the Smart Ship program: > B >    http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/allhands/ah0997/pg20.html# >    All Hands, Sep 97 - Smart Shipt > C > A couple of stories about the U.S.S. Yorktown being towed to porte& > after software problems disabled it: > : >    http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.html2 >    Scientific American: Technology and Business:" >    Rough Sailing For Smart Ships > 9 >    http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htmT> >    Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water  ; That was one project that no thought was ever put into it. h< They didn't consider that if something other than a computer7 system going down, who was going to make the repairs ats: sea.  On large aircraft carriers there are at least a fire< or two happening on board everyday... I don't think win2k is5 capable of putting out or fighting a fire... it needsa< trained sailors for that job.  The very idea of automating a6 ship is absurd.  Who's going to throw the Battle Short1 switch when they get into it with another enemy??o& The whole project IMO is a boondoggle.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:49:20 -0400)- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning, Message-ID: <3CEC90EB.D9F05F36@videotron.ca>   GreyCloud wrote:> > or two happening on board everyday... I don't think win2k is7 > capable of putting out or fighting a fire... it needss  > trained sailors for that job.   M On such a large ship, it is important that fire fighters have ready access toEI information about what is in the area where the fire occurs. (fuel depot,R$ ammunition, dangerous chemicals etc)  F Furthermore, on such a large ship, there may be many automated actionsM necessary in case of a fire (shutdown ventilation, cut power, close valves ofsL fuel/gas lines in the area or whatever else, and this is where a computer is% needed on such a large complex ship).T   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:46:48 +0100p( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning) Message-ID: <3CECBA88.A8E0B40A@127.0.0.1>P  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: >   L > James Allchin appears to have just testified - with a straight face - thatM > the proposed antitrust-violation remedy of sharing Windows source code withHO > the states that are suing it would be a national security risk since it would,I > expose serious security holes in the OS, which is being used in variousE > military applications. > L > This is curiously plausible, except for the obvious question of _why_ it'sM > being used in various military applications.  But I never heard crappy code ) > quality used as a legal defense before.,  E I heave a sigh of relief that the Cold War has warmed up, and all thegD 'threats' dealt with are just bunches of amateurs. Doesn't give me aD warm fuzzy feeling about the military though. They may be using realH stuff in some heavyweights, but remember the fable of a kingdom lost all for the nail in a horses shoe.  5 Perhaps if they had more VMS... No, I won't go there.  -- s( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com$   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:08:37 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning) Message-ID: <3CECBFA5.9F01C0BA@127.0.0.1>0  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >   B > No the upgrade to 7.3 went badly and they lost their environment2 > completely for more than an hour more than once. > @ > This has not made them happy bunnies hence the desire to scrap
 > OpenVMS.   Crazy.  F We had stable 7.3 field test systems, so I can only assume they failed to RTFM etc.   7.3 is as bombproof as any.0  : I'll spare the war stories about "other" systems and their implementation...`   -- 0( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:58:40 GMT`. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning3 Message-ID: <AX3H8.41498$ze7.414034@news.chello.at>W  T In article <3CECBFA5.9F01C0BA@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:) >Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:1C >> No the upgrade to 7.3 went badly and they lost their environment$3 >> completely for more than an hour more than once." >> IA >> This has not made them happy bunnies hence the desire to scrap0 >> OpenVMS.` >o >Crazy.`  I Yup. Shit happens. (but maybe it was only an excuse, not the real reason)TJ eg. I do know of a bank here, which ran V7.3 IN PRODUCTION one year BEFOREG the V7.3 field test even started (Leading edge means bleeding edge ;-).E  G >We had stable 7.3 field test systems, so I can only assume they failed-
 >to RTFM etc.$ >` >7.3 is as bombproof as any.   Except XFC of course ;-)  ; >I'll spare the war stories about "other" systems and their! >implementation...  
 Thank you.   -- $ Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER'% Network and OpenVMS system specialistI E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:44:54 -040022 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning. Message-ID: <3CECF256.353E589B@mindspring.com>   GreyCloud wrote:  * > .  Who's going to throw the Battle Short3 > switch when they get into it with another enemy??O  6 When you said this, I had this very funny mental image2 that when you throw the "Battle Short" switch, the/ computer monitor would display a message saying / "Battle Short enabled -- Switching from Windows` 2000 to Linux!""   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 09:16:15 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)r6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning3 Message-ID: <7q7YARB0Io4H@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <AX3H8.41498$ze7.414034@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:V > In article <3CECBFA5.9F01C0BA@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:  B >>> This has not made them happy bunnies hence the desire to scrap >>> OpenVMS. >> >>Crazy. > K > Yup. Shit happens. (but maybe it was only an excuse, not the real reason)'L > eg. I do know of a bank here, which ran V7.3 IN PRODUCTION one year BEFOREI > the V7.3 field test even started (Leading edge means bleeding edge ;-).7 > H >>We had stable 7.3 field test systems, so I can only assume they failed >>to RTFM etc. >> >>7.3 is as bombproof as any.a >  > Except XFC of course ;-) >    	Things happen.  S  1 	But notice the difference and how Compaq/HP VMS iA 	management/staff/engineers value their customers.  We know abouthA 	the problem(s) with XFC.  There are no Zinc Whiskers hanging offr? 	XFC.  Compare and contrast how the Zinc Whisker campaign went.c   	Care for some references?   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 23 MAY 2002 14:41:17 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning6 Message-ID: <23MAY02.14411704@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  d In a previous article, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote:  O ->On the other hand, if a new, crippling virus every week doesn't even dissuadecG ->people from running Outlook, why should terrorist attacks do it?  ...   , Here's published case where it actually has:  #  http://www.vnunet.com/News/1131823h  * Microsoft software expelled by top college By Steve Ranger [22-05-2002]  B Cambridge college bans Outlook and Outlook Express due to securityA concerns Newnham women's college, Cambridge, has banned MicrosoftdD Outlook and Outlook Express because it is tired of cleaning up after virus attacks.  D The college, which has around 700 users, took the decision after the latest Klez virus outbreak.n  F The university mail servers blocked around 200,000 copies of the mail,G but the college had a number of infections that caused a huge amount ofs disruption.k  E "We have banned all users connected to the college network from usingsH Outlook or Outlook Express on their machines," Paul McLaughlin, computerC officer at the college, told Network News. "I am tired of having tol9 allocate time and resources to clean up virus infections.e  H "We have taken a phased approach - Outlook is banned but not immediately2 to give people a chance to change over," he added.  G McLaughlin said at the moment users are recommended to use Mulberry - a H program which the University Computing Service helped develop. For usersF keen to keep a familiar interface to Outlook he said the Netscape mail module could be used.t  C "A few people said they didn't know how to use anything else but wet9 explained we have to protect the security of the network.s  H "We are a large and prestigious university and sometimes we get targetedG by people who want to disrupt things just like any large organisation."s  E Neil Barrett, technical director at Information Risk Management said:lF "It is no great surprise - but I am surprised that more people haven't already taken this step.  G "I have a huge amount of sympathy for the college administrators makinghG this change, and I guess if I were in their shoes, I would do something  similar to combat the problem."b  F Barrett said it was the preview facility in Outlook that automaticallyE executes Java and XML, which makes it attractive to virus writers, asi well as its widespread use.,  G However, he also warned that if users start migrating to different mailoG packages, virus writers will start developing viruses for them as well. H "It isn't going to do anything more than give them a short reprieve," heB said.At the time we went to press Microsoft were not available for comment.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisona9 --                      karcher.nospam@waisman.wisc.edu  r   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 17:21:39 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>h6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning6 Message-ID: <20020522172139.23157.qmail@gacracker.org>  K On Wed, 22 May 2002, "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK> wrote:iI >> But this is the point. VMS can be made as reliable as you want it, but H >> it takes skill and knowledge to set up. When I've seen bad amounts ofG >> downtime it's been due to a PFY who thinks they know it all, and therE >> employer won't pay the going rates for someone that can do the job 
 >> properly. e >o >Here, Here!J >And it looks like it will continue for a while yet. Then we can expect toM >see some serious disasters. Some banks will not survive it and some people's  >lives too.e  G It is never a wise idea to have a raw recruit managing mission-criticaluH systems, but at the present time many businesses think they can get awayK with it. M$ have dumbed-down the entire IT industry into believing downtimeeG and crashes are normal behaviour for computer systems. This is the very K issue which can, and I believe should, be used to market VMS. Of course, as F Nic points out, companies will still want to use the cheapest staff to" manage systems - even VMS systems.  D >If I was Bin-Laden, I would be investing in a major hack of all theM >unsecure, shitty, MS and Unix systems out there, that are rapidly being used K >because they are cheap, the people who manage them are cheap, and everyone" >knows they are insecure.l  I Who is to say he hasn't already? Although I'd expect far more destructivetE virii/worms than have been seen to date. I believe the latest worm is I SQLsnake which targets poorly configured MS SQL server systems, this justhI opens up backdoors in the system whereas it could destroy data or - worseoF still - introduce subtle corruptions. Anyway, judging by the fact thatD there have been no reports of terrorists using up to date and secureD cryptography, I very much doubt that they are fully aware of all the2 destruction they could cause in the digital world.     Doc. -- n6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nett   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 16:56:07 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>n6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning6 Message-ID: <20020523165607.28487.qmail@gacracker.org>  E On 23 MAY 2002, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) wrote:    <snip>  F >"We have banned all users connected to the college network from usingI >Outlook or Outlook Express on their machines," Paul McLaughlin, computerbD >officer at the college, told Network News. "I am tired of having to: >allocate time and resources to clean up virus infections.  H Don't know about Outlook (I've tried it and did not like it), however OEG can be secured. This is an oft overlooked fact. It's simply a matter ofuF disabling Java, Javascript, and ActiveX. These same steps secure MSIE.   <snip>  G >Barrett said it was the preview facility in Outlook that automaticallysF >executes Java and XML, which makes it attractive to virus writers, as >well as its widespread use. >tH >However, he also warned that if users start migrating to different mailH >packages, virus writers will start developing viruses for them as well.I >"It isn't going to do anything more than give them a short reprieve," herC >said.At the time we went to press Microsoft were not available forc	 >comment.g  J Eh? Mr Barrett states why Outlook and OE are vulnerable then overlooks theH fact that other clients aren't vulnerable because they simply don't haveJ those stupid features. If a mail client displays messages as text only I'dH be very interested in knowing how someone could craft an exploit for it.     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neta   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 06:53:21 -06002 From: cochrane@encompasserve.org (Arthur Cochrane). Subject: Re: Getting remote host name with DCL3 Message-ID: <y3FU+ToZ06UA@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  &  I set up the following symbol on UCX.  e6  $ set_display == "set display/create/transport=tcpip-G  	/node=""''f$element(1," ",f$getdvi("TT:","TT_ACCPORNAM"))'"""-"["-"]"   t*  On Multinet I set up the following symbol  y4  $ set_display=="set display/create/transport=tcpip-2  	/node=''f$getdvi("TT:","TT_ACCPORNAM")'"-"["-"]"   > Hi DCL specialists > F > There are two clients of a VMS 6.2 host accessing it interactively. K > The VMS client is using SET HOST while the other client is using TELNET.   > J > To SET DISPLAY /CREATE /NODE=<name> I get the other client's IP address I > and use UCX SHOW HOST /ADDRESS=<ip_addr> /OUTPUT=<filename> to convert a= > the IP address to its host name by parsing the output file.m > , > Is there a better way to do this with DCL?& > Preferably without a temporary file. > 0 > VMS 6.2 and UCX 3.3 are installed on the host. >  > TIA  > 
 > Christof   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:12:55 -0400-; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>u. Subject: Re: Getting remote host name with DCL$ Message-ID: <3ced14df$1@news.si.com>  D >There are two clients of a VMS 6.2 host accessing it interactively.I >The VMS client is using SET HOST while the other client is using TELNET.  >aH >To SET DISPLAY /CREATE /NODE=<name> I get the other client's IP addressG >and use UCX SHOW HOST /ADDRESS=<ip_addr> /OUTPUT=<filename> to convert < >the IP address to its host name by parsing the output file.  K Apparently there is an X server on the client's end.  In that case, why nothL let the X package send it's IP or DECnet address and its preferred transportK to the VMS system?  That way, the system that knows the information will beeL the determiner and the VMS side won't have to go through gyrations to figureF it out.  That's what I do and it works well.  Here's an excerpt from a command procedure I have:    $!1 $!  Check if the client node is the current node.a $! $   if p2 .eqs. localnode: $   then $!F $!      Local execution requested.  Create the display and execute the command. $!: $       set display/create/node='p1'/transport='transport' $       'command'o $       wait 0:0:30l $! $   else $!H $!      Remote execution requested.  Use REMDECW to execute the command. $!1 $       open/read/write link 'p2'::"task=remdecw"S% $       write link p1, ",", transport/ $       write link command $       type linkr $       close link $!	 $   endifa --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comoA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comr= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent.< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:27:31 +0100 (MET)b9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECt; Message-ID: <01KI2AYGPYJ6984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  H > Show me a piece of paper that says that HP is committed to continue to2 > develop VMS on IA64 after the port is complete.   I The "white paper" has the clear-as-glass statement that HP will continue 9C to deliver on the previously announced Compaq VMS roadmaps.  These  # include development after the port.   E Do you REALLY believe that VMS development will stop after the port?!   H There is a tendency here to interpret every statement from HP regarding I VMS which is bad as gospel, and every statement which is good as subject o
 to change.  I If people are SO SURE that HP will live up to these conspiracy theories, eH I really think some public bets with painful sums are in order.  If you - REALLY believe it, what have you got to lose?s  I A few years ago, the tabloids reported that an asteroid would pass "very sF near" the Earth.  Near in an astronomical sense, but not in any other I (it was much farther away than the moon).  The tabloids created a lot of @E end-of-the-world expectations.  Phones at observatories were ringing sF constantly.  I know one astronomer who came up with a way to reassure E people:  He asked if they owned a house.  If they said yes, he would tI offer to buy it for ten thousand marks.  If the world REALLY IS going to iH end in two days, it's a bargain: ten thousand marks to blow on whatever E you want.  The house is good for nothing after the world ends anyway.n  G Another example of a reality check popping in when people are asked to h. back up their beliefs with something concrete.  ( Instant-whip Bob never took up my offer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:13:59 -0500d& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC 8 Message-ID: <45upeu8jp8a039ftuvp7p54bgrh7r52vn0@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 22 May 2002 20:51:33 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   
 >jlsue wrote:vH >> Ya know.  It just doesn't matter what piece of paper we show you.  IfF >> we produced one that says *exactly* what you wanted, you'd just sayD >> something like "Yeah, that's what you said about NT on Alpha, and >> about Alpha itself."- >-! >Actions speak louder than words.8 >  >[snippage...]  > Which is *exactly* part of my point.  But actions don't happenB immediately.  You just have to wait and see (just like the rest of us).  D But continually repeating the same stuff several notes a day doesn'tC help matters in the least.  Your posts are so repetitive that I can F grab something 1 or 2 years ago and re-post it and nobody'd be able to tell the difference.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqs- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:04:34 -0400t  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?c? Message-ID: <OFDD5D525A.521F1373-ON85256BC2.005241C2@metso.com>a   Paul,2E How is the number of failure points different in a HBVS and SAN setup) different from any other remote VMScluster setup?I I guess you are saying V6.2 is supported with V7.2* in migration mode, soC it would be involved$ in qualification, but I am guessing.E I asked elsewhere about how extensive the work would be, and I got and answer that it would behG quite extensive and at a time when the Itanium port was of much greater  value-add (my words).a This makes sense to me.nJ Backporting mini-merge to V7.2-2 - since it _is_ a landing zone version  - also makes sense tos me. G I lament if it cannot be done, but as a customer I state that I clearly  need it until and unless myE6 3rd-party vendor supports V7.3-1 or I go off-platform. -Normd        C Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@k9 on 05/22/2002 10:55:32 AM   8 Please respond to Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>   Sent by:    prep@k9r     To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:b8 Subject:    Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?     norm.raphael@metso.com writes:  F > Is there something in V7.3-1 that prevents this?  Else why not? ..Or > are you just being mean?  @ That is deep in serious aligator territory. And would need mongoC testing (6.2 for instance is an issue here) so much better to leavem be.a  B Have you looked at the number of failures points in a HBVS and SAN setup?   --< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:46:25 -0400 / From: "Joseph Pomeroy" <JPOMEROY@holycross.edu>- Subject: Is ANALUAF.COM avail?/ Message-ID: <scecc887.084@dudley.holycross.edu>e   People:b?   Doubtless a dumb question to which I  SHOULD know the answer:   J   I had and used an old version of analuaf.com which compared sysuaf and =K disks, reporting users without home disk directories and disk directories =: with nonexistent owners.D  Now I cannot find it.  I think I have searched the obvious places =! (Freeware disks,etc) but no luck.s Can anybody suggest anything?   VMS ALPHA V7.2-1 is in use.   Thanks so much,(   Joeb   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 03:45:02 -0400e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Log file size4 Message-ID: <1020523033909.353A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  # On 22 May 2002, Carl Perkins wrote:   1 > "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> writes...RH > }That's exactly what I want to, to pre-allocate the file size so as to > }improve the performance.  > ' > There are a variety of possibilities.P > F > I don't remember what you said the source of the log file was. If itN > is from something like a "SUBMIT/LOG=my.log" or "RUN/DETACHED/OUTPUT=my.log"H > then only the last thing down below is going to help. The rest of this< > assumes it is a file that is opened by the program itself. > F > If you have control of the source, it may be as simple as specifyingE > the initial allocation in the open statment in the language you areDD > using (at least some, and probably most, languages support this onA > VMS - some may not). For example, the Fortran open statment hasgH > the optional "initialsize=" parameter (and an "extendsize=" to specifyC > how big of a chunk to allocate if the file needs to be extended).rH > C's open/fopen routines also have optional parameters for these things > (i.e. "alq=" and "deq=")./ > L > If the language you are using doesn't support such a thing, you can switchI > to using teh RMS routines directly or you can just use the RMS routinesoM > to create the file with the desired size, then close it from RMS and reopenuG > it with your language's native commands for opening an existing file.  > F > If you have no control over the source but know that it will open an8 > existing file of the correct name, you can use the DCLE > "COPY/ALLOC=xxx NL: myfile.log" to create the file the program will F > open. You may need to use CONVERT on this file (or use CREATE/FDL toJ > make an empty file of the right sort and then copy it instead of copyingI > from the null device) to set the file's record format and attributes ifeF > you need something other than variable length with carriage control. > J > If you have no control of the source and it won't open an existing file,J > the best you can do is probably to use "SET VOLUME/EXTENSION=xxx mydisk"G > and hope that the way the program opens the file honors this setting.lF > Depending on how the file is created this may not affect the initialI > allocation, but if default settings are used in most languages it oughtcG > to. In most cases even if the initial allocation doesn't pick up thiso/ > value, the later extensions of the file will.  > 
 > --- Carl  @ You can also change the default RMS extend quantity with "$ set ? rms/extend=xxx" in the command file that starts up the program,h? but this will only work if the program runs in the same processaA (or as a subprocess) as the startup command file.  (I.E. it won'tuC work if the startup command file does a RUN/DETACH.)  Also, it willhE affect all files that the process creates, not just the log file, andaC RMS will ignore the extend quantity if the program uses an explicitu extend quantity.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:10:15 -0500r& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: Log file size8 Message-ID: <i0upeu89umukuqamqk6rqvqnimgb8vig8f@4ax.com>  	 Likewise:k; $ run sys$system:loginout/input= myjob.com/output=myjob.log  >l >myjob.com:  >n $ SET RMS/EXTEND=20000
 >$ run myprogs >$ exiti    3 On Thu, 23 May 2002 00:12:12 GMT, "James Wilkinson"e <elementyl@hotmail.com> wrote:  - >"Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> wrote:WB >> That's exactly what I want to, to pre-allocate the file size so! >> as to improve the performance.- >-) >You can do something like the following:- >06 >$ run sys$system:loginout/input= myjob.com/output=nl: >. >myjob.com:: >:C >$ copy/allocation=10000 nl: mydata.log   ! pre-allocate 10k blocks3! >$ open/append logfile mydata.logW! >$ define/user sys$output logfileS
 >$ run myprogT >$ exitU >w >e >   1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:14:59 +0100o From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>l Subject: Re: Log file size) Message-ID: <3CECF963.27DD8B17@Omond.net>d   John Santos wrote:   > [...snip...] >!A > You can also change the default RMS extend quantity with "$ seteA > rms/extend=xxx" in the command file that starts up the program,iA > but this will only work if the program runs in the same processvC > (or as a subprocess) as the startup command file.  (I.E. it won'tnE > work if the startup command file does a RUN/DETACH.)  Also, it will-G > affect all files that the process creates, not just the log file, andmE > RMS will ignore the extend quantity if the program uses an explicita > extend quantity.  # Yep, this is the way I would do it.   0 First command in the batch job running would be:  M $ set file/extend=4096 ! or whatever would be a suitable initial size for thew logfile.  C If you're worried about this affecting other files in the job, thene" simply set it back to the default:  ! $ set file/extend=0 ! or whateverp  	 Roy Omonda Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 02 16:28:09 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t Subject: Re: Log file size) Message-ID: <wwu+HZQ7LbmD@elias.decus.ch>   \ In article <87wutwrzxn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:/ > "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> writes:a > G >> I am using VMS7.2-1 on Alpha 8400 and I want to run a detach processfE >> and log the output to a log file. Can I defined the allocated size  >> for the log file? >  yG > You could, but you probably don't want to. It will extend as you run,cH > so as long as you do not fill the volume, you will not run out. UnlessH > you are dumping truckloads of stuff into the log, then the performanceH > plus from pre-allocation is vaanishingly small, and the log file will H > tend to vacume up all the little tiny extents and remove them from theC > free space pool. This can in fact help performance of the system.g >   J Point noted. But also beware humoungous file headers and index file space. __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandr   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:36:19 GMTh/ From: "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: Log file size@ Message-ID: <7U8H8.1411$044.89236538@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>  ) "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> wrote:e > $ SET RMS/EXTEND=20000  F This also affects any other files the program may create, probably not desirable if any are created.c   Jamess   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:14:39 +0200cC From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de>t Subject: Re: mkisofs for Vax@ Message-ID: <00A0E5C2.BAEF6B2D.277@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>   Try this  - ftp://v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de/mkisofs_new/r  5 Mkisofs 1.12b; VAX+AXP-bin; one small change in vms.ct   eberhard  5 PS: I'm offering now dvdwrite for OpenVMS/AXP. Storese0     4,3 (real) GB on DVD-R(W). Works with IDE or6     SCSI (via SCSI-IDE-Bridge). Burner: Pionner       -     DVR-A03/103, Pioneer S201 (SCSI-Verison).t      O ===============================================================================l   Dr. Eberhard Heuser-Hofmannt Univ. Konstanz Fakultaet fuer Chemiee Universitaets-Strasse 10 D-78464 Konstanz GermanyI. Phone: +49-7531-88-2026, FAX: +49-7531-88-3139* email: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de  O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 06:41:07 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: mkisofs for Vax= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205230541.7555bf31@posting.google.com>C  ` David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> wrote in message news:<3CEC01F0.FE3FF197@email.uc.edu>... > Tom Linden wrote:u > >  > > Look in the FAQC > H > I did look in the Faqs, but I still don't see a binary copy of mkisofs > for VAX/VMS.   >  > Am I missing the link ?   D I don't think mkisofs is available for VMS v6.2. I investigated this0 very topic a while ago and that's what I recall.   Disclaimer: JMHO (or OCICBWYN) Alan E. Feldmani" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:48:36 -0400i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)& Subject: Re: More DECNET help please!!L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2305020748360001@11cust174.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  G In article <20020522220822.H30144-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Billn$ Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  J >Now that I can at least "SET HOST" between my VAX and PDP I have run intoI >the next hurdle.  It seems I can copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am on J >the PDP. But I can't copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am on the VAX. AndI >worst of all, I can't copy from the VAX to the PDP (what I really needed  >DECNET for!!) from either end.n >  >From the VAX:D >%COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening 1.82::[5,1]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 as output0 >-RMS-F-SUPPORT, network operation not supported) >-FAL-F-RFM, record format field rejected P >%COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, $USERS:[FACULTY.STAFF.BILL.DECUSC.005001]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 not >copieds  B I think this is telling you that the format of the VMS file is notI compatible with anything available on the remote system.  You may need toeA convert the file to a different record format before you copy it.o   Have you seen this manual:  T http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/documentation/pdf/DECNET_OVMS_NET_MAN.PDF  C Section 9.3 describes DECnet interoperation between VMS and RSTS/E.d   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2002 11:38:52 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) & Subject: Re: More DECNET help please!!, Message-ID: <acikcc$1hiv$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  + In article <3CEC58BA.A77ACECF@ins-msi.com>,!.  Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> writes: |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:n |> >  N |> > Now that I can at least "SET HOST" between my VAX and PDP I have run intoM |> > the next hurdle.  It seems I can copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am oneN |> > the PDP. But I can't copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am on the VAX. AndM |> > worst of all, I can't copy from the VAX to the PDP (what I really needed # |> > DECNET for!!) from either end.  |> >   |> > From the VAX:H |> > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening 1.82::[5,1]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 as output4 |> > -RMS-F-SUPPORT, network operation not supported- |> > -FAL-F-RFM, record format field rejectediT |> > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, $USERS:[FACULTY.STAFF.BILL.DECUSC.005001]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 not |> p4 |> Is this file a STREAM, STREAM_LF, STREAM_CR file? |> -  E These particular files were STREAM_LF, but it doesn't seem to matter.h& Binary files (.TSK) don't copy either.   bill   -- jJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 02 05:21:53 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com & Subject: Re: More DECNET help please!!( Message-ID: <ImeydiD4BlmD@cpva.saic.com>  L In article <rdeininger-2305020748360001@11cust174.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>,5  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:nI > In article <20020522220822.H30144-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill & > Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: > K >>Now that I can at least "SET HOST" between my VAX and PDP I have run intotJ >>the next hurdle.  It seems I can copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am onK >>the PDP. But I can't copy from the PDP to the VAX if I am on the VAX. AndtJ >>worst of all, I can't copy from the VAX to the PDP (what I really needed  >>DECNET for!!) from either end. >> >>From the VAX:aE >>%COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening 1.82::[5,1]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 as outputp1 >>-RMS-F-SUPPORT, network operation not supported * >>-FAL-F-RFM, record format field rejectedQ >>%COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, $USERS:[FACULTY.STAFF.BILL.DECUSC.005001]$WHATSNEW.TXT;1 noty >>copied > D > I think this is telling you that the format of the VMS file is notK > compatible with anything available on the remote system.  You may need toeC > convert the file to a different record format before you copy it.w >  > Have you seen this manual: > V > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/documentation/pdf/DECNET_OVMS_NET_MAN.PDF > E > Section 9.3 describes DECnet interoperation between VMS and RSTS/E.-  C Check out $ HELP EXCHANGE/NETWORK and it's associated qualifiers...s   -- e - Jim    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 08:01:46 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: More DECNET help please!!3 Message-ID: <M0mFtymw9OkL@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  W In article <1020522231236.353A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:r > D > You might have to copy the file with an explicit output spec, e.g.= >  $ copy [.decusc.005001]$whatsnew.txt 1.82::[5,1]whtsnw.txta > C > You might also have to quote the RSTS/E side filespec, because ofa> > the embedded comma, but that doesn't seem to be the problem.( > (What exact copy command did you use?)  G    You shouldn't have to quote anything RMS can parse and that embeddeda#    comma is certainly legit on VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:36:08 +0200s& From: Bob Marcan <bob.marcan@aster.si>P Subject: Re: MPE "clusters" (Was: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate'9 Message-ID: <20020523103608.430b79b2.bob.marcan@aster.si>-   On 13 May 2002 07:40:23 -0600-. koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  e > In article <3CDC0CC1.6CEDD5F8@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:O, > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >>   > >> MPE has clusterse > >> i4 > >> http://www.hp.com/products1/mpeix/ha/index.html > >> m > >  > > 9 > > Well, there are clusters and then there are CLUSTERS.p > J >    Yeah, but MPE has all you need to convinve a eunich he was clustered. >     Yeah, try it. I'm running Tru64.   -- o@  Bob Marcan                           mailto:bob.marcan@aster.si?  Aster                                tel:    +386 (1) 5894-329m?  Nade Ovcakove 1                      fax:    +386 (1) 5894-201a@  1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia                    http://www.aster.si   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 07:54:45 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: Multinet Hobbyist PAKSr3 Message-ID: <m$aRh25sxJOd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <acghqv$h6i$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:pF > How long is it taking for Multinet PAKS to come out after applying??E > Stupid me, I applied for and installed new PAKS for VMS and layeredcC > products and forgot that I needed one for Multinet as well.  ThisiC > morning (after finally getting DECNET working) I came in to find gC > Multinet expired.  Maybe I'm just spoiled by the almost immediatemL > response from Montager, but patience has never been one of my virtues. :-)  C    Masbe it depends on how much of their free time folks at ProcessNG    can spend on it this week.  Mine sure turned around fast enough, butd    that was months ago.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:27:58 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>h Subject: Re: No new Alpha saless0 Message-ID: <acj5ag$r04$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Wed, 22 May 2002 15:40:14 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys6 > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote: >  >  >>: >>But then the flaw in your argument as you know full well; >>is that the market hasn't been increasing over the period % >>we are refering to it has declined.e >>= >>This rather ruins your argument as you should have realiseds >>before you bothered replying.n >>< >>Still its a very nice point that you may be able to use in> >>the future when the market does start growing again, save it >>for then. :):):):) >> >> > A > That depends on how you define market share.  Do the stats only- > including new systems?     Yes !!!!!!!!  6 Had you not noticed what the title of this thread is ?   No "new" Alpha Sales.-   New as in new.   Regards0 Andrew Harrison     3 > Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqg/ > (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)l >     + Possibly a good thing in the circumstances.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:58:51 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>lU Subject: off-topic: dubbing (was: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?".; Message-ID: <01KI2MODTBHK96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   A > I would like to know in which countries with a sufficient largemJ > population dubbing is used. I thought that in Spain dubbing isn't used.   ; I don't know about the Romance-language countries.  Of the lI Germanic-language countries, I believe only Germany dubs.  It is also by oI far the largest in terms of population.  I don't know where the turnover a is regarding profitability.z  G Including English-speaking countries in the comparison is a bit unfair oG since (probably because there are so many English-language programmes) h! there are few foreign programmes.h  3 > Is there a news group appropriate for this topic?g  I Don't know.  Would have responded privately but there was no valid email R address.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:38:30 +1000 / From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>e# Subject: Re: OpenVMS times in excelc1 Message-ID: <a11H8.1639$l62.65600@ozemail.com.au>u  A You can import vms date/times eg. as returned by f$time() as textsG then apply a custom format of "dd-mmm-yyyy hh:mm:ss.00" to each column, I excel can then subtract one from another to get elapsed time for example.sG To "lose" the hundredths of a second you can define your result as just  hh:mm:ssA Use menuitems  Format, Cells, Custom or keys CTRL+1 to get there.t Phil  4 "Piet Timmers" <piet@timmers-it.nl> wrote in message6 news:be44b12d.0205220414.15f1495@posting.google.com...F > This is not a real OpenVMS question, but i think this is the one and > only group to post it. > D > We want to use the OpenVMS time format (example 00:00:02.61) in an > excel spread sheet.n >hF > Is it possible to convert it to a time like 00:00:02 and then to use > it as a time in excel. >  > Greetings, >  > Piet   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 06:03:54 -0700* From: ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell) Subject: Re: OpenVMS wizarde= Message-ID: <8debc3ff.0205230503.14f02149@posting.google.com>a  D I gather you are very quick at your work, once you get these, as allC of these were posted on 21-May-2001, making these appear before thef questions had been posted.   Ken Randell   q "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<EoyG8.31$LY6.745528@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>... M > Just did another 81 today. Mostly I have to wait for a bunch to be done ande< > for the wiz to let me know he's ready to have them posted. >  >  > --D > ------------------------------------------------------------------8 > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingI > Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.com.N > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com5 > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875u7 >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfE. >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/D > ------------------------------------------------------------------ >  >  >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:39:47 -0400h* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: OpenVMS wizardo- Message-ID: <0033000065217350000002L002*@MHS>l  ! =0ATo a wizard, time is fungible.o :^)p   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET $ Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 9:03 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: OpenVMS wizard     D I gather you are very quick at your work, once you get these, as allC of these were posted on 21-May-2001, making these appear before thee questions had been posted.   Ken Randello  ; "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote in messageDH news:<EoyG8.31$LY6.745528@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>... > Just did anothe= r 817 today. Mostly I have to wait for a bunch to be done and"< > for the wiz to let me know he's ready to have them posted. >p >r > --D > ------------------------------------------------------------------8 > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingH > Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.c= omH > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultra= net.com 5 > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875e7 >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfu. >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/D > ------------------------------------------------------------------ >e >i >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:14:44 -0400l, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS wizardn* Message-ID: <acj117$kno$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  J actually he lives backwards in time (like Merlin) so he already know's how it all ends (begins)...h  1 Bug in program hard coded 2001 for year. fixed...D   -warrenL   --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingK Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@remove.compaq.com0L 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875 5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfi,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message ' news:0033000065217350000002L002*@MHS...y   To a wizard, time is fungible. :^)t   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET $ Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 9:03 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: OpenVMS wizardl    D I gather you are very quick at your work, once you get these, as allC of these were posted on 21-May-2001, making these appear before the  questions had been posted.   Ken Randell7  ; "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote in messagejK news:<EoyG8.31$LY6.745528@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>... > Just did another 81t7 today. Mostly I have to wait for a bunch to be done ande< > for the wiz to let me know he's ready to have them posted. >- >- > --D > ------------------------------------------------------------------8 > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingI > Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.com>0 > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.comV5 > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875S7 >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself . >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/D > ------------------------------------------------------------------ >o >r >=   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 11:06:33 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r Subject: Re: OpenVMS wizardo3 Message-ID: <fdeldxBNKexH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   3 > Bug in program hard coded 2001 for year. fixed...,  + Hopefully not with the most trivial fix :-)m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:06:06 -0400=! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>- Subject: Re: OpenVMS wizarda' Message-ID: <3CED217E.82EBA561@vcu.edu>M  G like the send-off episode for the end of mankind thing in StarTrek, the- Next Generation??? ;-)  	 Qa'Pla!!!t   warren sander wrote: > L > actually he lives backwards in time (like Merlin) so he already know's how > it all ends (begins)...o > 3 > Bug in program hard coded 2001 for year. fixed...  > 	 > -warrenl >  > --D > ------------------------------------------------------------------8 > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingM > Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@remove.compaq.comaN > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com5 > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-487507 >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfr. >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/D > ------------------------------------------------------------------9 > "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messager) > news:0033000065217350000002L002*@MHS...i >   > To a wizard, time is fungible. > :^)l >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET & > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 9:03 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: RE: OpenVMS wizardt > F > I gather you are very quick at your work, once you get these, as allE > of these were posted on 21-May-2001, making these appear before theW > questions had been posted. > 
 > Ken Randelli > = > "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote in messageYM > news:<EoyG8.31$LY6.745528@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>... > Just did another 81p9 > today. Mostly I have to wait for a bunch to be done andV> > > for the wiz to let me know he's ready to have them posted. > >e > >o > > --F > > ------------------------------------------------------------------: > > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingK > > Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.come2 > > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: > sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com-7 > > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875.9 > >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfl0 > >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/F > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >b > >n > >=   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 02:01:17 -0700" From: spinelli_ck@yahoo.com (Alan) Subject: Printing configurationn= Message-ID: <d64078f4.0205230101.1f7a9ee5@posting.google.com>m   Hi,>  C I'm running a MircoVAX 3100-80 on VMS 6.2 with TCPWare installed. I.> need to configure the system to use an Axis Printserver 5600+.  = 1) What are the settings i need to change on the printserver? ( 2) How do i create a print queue in VMS?( 3) Anything else i need to take note of?  - Your input would be much appreciated. Thanks!n   Regards, Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:35:12 GMTE# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>$C Subject: Re: Programming errors, was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX_H Message-ID: <4m5H8.75476$ah_.32657@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   C / C++r    G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote in 5 message news:N08q1oVFKo0w@eisner.encompasserve.org...sJ > In article <3pLG8.81594$t8_.56553@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:yK > > I can relate some first-hand experience, dealing principally with SunOS- and-L > > Solaris in a stock brokerage/debt trading environment between 1994-2000, isK > > that of all the downtime experienced, worked out to be about 35% due toe theiJ > > o/s having problems (perhaps the correct patches were not installed in someE > > cases), and the balance due to sloppy coding in the applications.- > >0J > > Of the 65% due to sloppy coding in the applications, about 1/2 of that waso' > > stuff that VMS would have trapped .m > >  > 3 > What kinds of sloppy coding are you thinking of ?c >cL > Another approach would be to use a programming language which was designedG > to help catch common programming errors either at compile or runtime.  Which  > language was used ?l >e > Simon. >T > --= > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFPr- > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.p   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 07:09:13 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)? Subject: Programming errors, was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUXn3 Message-ID: <N08q1oVFKo0w@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <3pLG8.81594$t8_.56553@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:M > I can relate some first-hand experience, dealing principally with SunOS and M > Solaris in a stock brokerage/debt trading environment between 1994-2000, isMM > that of all the downtime experienced, worked out to be about 35% due to theEM > o/s having problems (perhaps the correct patches were not installed in some-C > cases), and the balance due to sloppy coding in the applications.0 > L > Of the 65% due to sloppy coding in the applications, about 1/2 of that was% > stuff that VMS would have trapped .9 >   1 What kinds of sloppy coding are you thinking of ?3  J Another approach would be to use a programming language which was designedK to help catch common programming errors either at compile or runtime. Whichu language was used ?x   Simon.   -- nB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:36:05 -0700 * From: "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com>8 Subject: Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??5 Message-ID: <aci9nr$pql71$1@ID-131939.news.dfncis.de>,  J They were sold as Compaq excess inventory. I was led to believe by friendsH in Compaq that they are CPUs from the GS (and ES etc) series, which doesC indeed have ZIF sockets, for "seamless upgrade through the productsa) lifetime" or something along those lines.v  = Of course, that probably does not help me find a motherboard!.       Matt              3 "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com> wrote in messageH) news:ueo4ocrrvquof5@corp.supernews.com...  >M= >     There is no production motherboard available that has ax@ >     21264 ZIF socket. All of them were soldered in for reasons* >     of EMI and other electrical reasons. >t; >     I don't know who sold these CPU's, but the definately 7 >     scammed a number of people who thought they coulda& >     drop it in a motherboard and go. >aB >                                                             mike >-7 > "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com> wrote in message(1 > news:acfj6v$p4h30$1@ID-131939.news.dfncis.de... K > > Yes, had my suspcions about the same. While it may not work in a DP264,2 it/ > > has to work in some motherboard, somewhere.B& > > Why else would they make the CPU?? > >PL > > I wouldnt sell it tho, far too menacing looking and I didnt pay too much > for1 > > it!u > >d > >i > >i > > Matt > >d > >l > >s7 > > "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com> wrote in messageK- > > news:uelgkc9eoca379@corp.supernews.com...a > > >f > > >     You're SOL.K > > >MC > > >     The Slot B's had the CPU's attached during manufacturing.aB > > >     You'd need some seriously expensive equipment (ie: Not aE > > >     radio shack soldering iron) to attach this CPU to anything.m > > >e; > > >     SlotB does not equal DP264 daughter card. Totally  > > >     different. > > >M< > > >     Sell it on EBay and let someone else deal with it.6 > > >     Caveat Emptor. This is not your kids Athlon. > > > J > > >                                                                 mike > > >h; > > > "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com> wrote in messageo= > > > news:b4a22604.0205210123.7787e4a4@posting.google.com...c > > > > Hi All,h > > > > G > > > > I asked this some time ago and we didnt get far, so Ill give itW	 > another2
 > > > > shot.1 > > > >wI > > > > I have an Alpha 21264a CPU (bare). I need a (any it would appear)m > 21264 	 > > > CPU 2 > > > > daughtercard (aka module) and motherboard.H > > > > Does anyone have any ideas. I have tried Harddata and some other
 > > retailerso8 > > > > and they claimed they wont/cant sell such parts. > > > >oK > > > > My research indicates that the DP264 motherboard and a daughtercardn	 > > wouldhL > > > > work.. but where to find empty motherboards? The CPU itself is rated > atL > > > > 733MHz, but I have been led to believe that it would simply run at a	 > > lower.; > > > > speed (500MHz in a DP264?) in a slower motherboard.! > > > >  > > > >o+ > > > > Any other suggestions most welcome,o > > > >p > > > >- > > > >s > > > > Matt > > >  > > >H > >o > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:00:02 -0400y2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)8 Subject: Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2305020800020001@11cust174.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  B In article <aci9nr$pql71$1@ID-131939.news.dfncis.de>, "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com> wrote:  K >They were sold as Compaq excess inventory. I was led to believe by friends I >in Compaq that they are CPUs from the GS (and ES etc) series, which doesaD >indeed have ZIF sockets, for "seamless upgrade through the products* >lifetime" or something along those lines. >e> >Of course, that probably does not help me find a motherboard!  A The ES and GS series systems I've looked inside don't use CPUs indF sockets.  The CPUs don't even have pins.  The mounting is flat-on-flatE with an interposer, with bolts and clamps and springs and other messy B stuff.  Not something for an end user to take apart and play with.  H The CPUs are attached to daughtercards which can be removed and replacedI pretty easily.  That would be the only route to a "seamless upgrade" that  I know of in these boxes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 14:47:46 -0700 * From: "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com>8 Subject: Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??5 Message-ID: <acis08$q113h$1@ID-131939.news.dfncis.de>v  G This just gets more and more confusing... There must be somewhere a ZIFm3 motherboard and a these CPUs... surely Compaq didnte' use these and remove the pins somehow??e  I Perhaps Samsung can shed some light (the CPU is made by them) but I doubtf it.o       Matt    ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message F news:rdeininger-2305020800020001@11cust174.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...D > In article <aci9nr$pql71$1@ID-131939.news.dfncis.de>, "Matt Simis"  > <mattsimis@hotmail.com> wrote: >tE > >They were sold as Compaq excess inventory. I was led to believe bye friendsVK > >in Compaq that they are CPUs from the GS (and ES etc) series, which doesiF > >indeed have ZIF sockets, for "seamless upgrade through the products, > >lifetime" or something along those lines. > > @ > >Of course, that probably does not help me find a motherboard! >rC > The ES and GS series systems I've looked inside don't use CPUs ineH > sockets.  The CPUs don't even have pins.  The mounting is flat-on-flatG > with an interposer, with bolts and clamps and springs and other messywD > stuff.  Not something for an end user to take apart and play with. > J > The CPUs are attached to daughtercards which can be removed and replacedK > pretty easily.  That would be the only route to a "seamless upgrade" thatt > I know of in these boxes.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 08:07:02 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) 8 Subject: Re: Slot B Cpu Module and other 21264a Parts ??= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205230707.20f1260d@posting.google.com>S  g "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<aci9nr$pql71$1@ID-131939.news.dfncis.de>... L > They were sold as Compaq excess inventory. I was led to believe by friendsJ > in Compaq that they are CPUs from the GS (and ES etc) series, which doesE > indeed have ZIF sockets, for "seamless upgrade through the products-+ > lifetime" or something along those lines.-  D Hmmm... DEC/Compaq would do what they seemed the best thing with the? assembly of Alpha microprocessors into systems and Fair enough!a  A I've got an E2065-DA board from an 8400 sitting next to me at the7 moment.L1 The EV56 processors firmly soldered to the board.^  F Some *idiot* took it out to look at, dropped it (before I received the< 8400 in question), bending up a backplane connector (made by1 Winchester Electronics - part no: HF2A4020AC1AC).a  B It is amazing what you can do with the proper tools - with the newD connector I am in the process of ordering I guess I'll get it going.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2002 13:06:34 GMT From: phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu$ Subject: Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT) Message-ID: <acipgq$gsl$1@nyheter.crt.se>a  ' Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:= > Hi. 5 > For anyone knowing how smtp works through firewalls"* > using NAT (network address translation).  / > I'v a setup that I'm investigating right now.-   > Scenario :  9 > system-X (X)  <--->  filewall (FW)  <--->  system-Y (Y)   . > X is an unknown platform, but can "do" smtp./ > Y is an DS20e with VMS 7.2-1 and UCX V5.0A-1.h  / > X and Y should send smtp mails to each other.r  8 > X is on the "inside" and Y on the "outside" of the FW.8 > The FW NAT's the IP addresses between the two systems.  A > Now, sending mails Y -> X goes just fine. Y uses the "external"vC > address (NAT'ed) of X. These mails goes from the "outside" to the-  > "inside", as seen from the FW.  & > The problem is to send mails X -> Y.  D > Actualy the smtp server is called on Y, but in the smtp logs on Y,E > the address of the "client" is not the NAT'ed address of X, but theo3 > FW's "common" address. Or as the FW manager sad :n  A As FW is NAT-ing FW has to use one address of it's own. DifferentmG FW uses different strategies here, somtimes a single ip can be used to -9 everything ( by changing source port ), sometimes one cann@ set up a specific ip that is nly used for a specific host on the inside.   C Your problems seems to be that the address used is not known in dns3; ( or whatever you use for reverse resolution). Adding this o! ip to rev-dns would make Y happy.4  > The fact that MTA has those ideas is a Goof Thing, since they . by various mechanisms reduce the spam-problem.    @ > "it's simply using the outbound many-to-one NAT instead of theD > static NAT. In other words, it's acting just like a user that goes? > to the outside thru a firewall. It uses port assignment to do F > many-to-one NAT using the outside interface IP address as the NAT IP > address."E  H > Well, hope you get the picture. B.t.w, neither side of this FW belongsG > to the "internet", it's all internal to a specific site, but with oneh > "isolated" subnet.  G > Now, I'm *can* VMS and UCX, but FW's are kind of a black hole for me.0  J > In the smtp server log on Y, I get this (an extract of the complete log)   > [a lot of startup mesages...]c- > SMTP_RECV_MAIL: remote host not in hosts DB6I > SMTP_RECV_MAIL: remote host IP address: <the "common" ip address of the  > FW> 4 > SMTP_RECV_MAIL: remote host name: unknown.hostname/ > recv_serv: local host = <the local host name> H > recv_serv: remote host = unknown.hostname            <<<=== don't know > where this commes from !H > send buf=220 <the local host name> V5.0A-1, OpenVMS V7.2-1 Alpha ready) > at Mon, 20 May 2002 12:02:53 +0000 \d\ae > recv_serv: repl_buf = heloG > send buf=250 <the local host name> Hello unknown.hostname, pleased to  > meet you\d\a > recv_serv: repl_buf = quitA > send buf=221 <the local host name> Service closing transmissionv  C Y does accepts the connection, answering "Hello unknown.hostname.."-   X seems to misunderstand this. -  A Or :: your FW tries to be smart. What brand is it ? PIX does someg< peculiar stiff, could you try to sniff at X and compare the  sniffings ?-  A response code 221 should not be interpreted as permanent failure,  ( rfc 1893 )  
 > channel\d\a   I > The only error/warning I can find is the one saying "remote host not in- > hosts DB".  F > To me it seams as the client (X) send a "helo" and then just "quit".E > Maybe the messages sent "in" from Y->X ("send buf" in the log) juste > don't- > reach the X system !?f  : > Well, that's it. I'm stuck. Any ideas are very welcome !   > Jan-Erik Sderholm.    > PS. @ > There was another note by the FW manager. I'm not sure if it's > rellevant but here it goes :  ? > "Also I did make a modification in the firewall just in case. B > The rule set was using filtered-smtp instead of standard smtp...? > same port number but I changed it to smtp just to see if that  > makes a difference.".p  9 > I don't know the difference between "filtered-smtp" andc8 > "standard smtp", so I can't tell if this is important. > DS.e   -- e Peter Hkanson         o7         IPSec  Sverige      ( At Gothenburg Riverside )pJ            Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out,; 	   remove "icke-reklam" if you feel for mailing me. Thanx.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:39:04 +0200i9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> $ Subject: Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT' Message-ID: <3CECFF08.C74E5A41@aaa.com>s   OK and thanks.  3 I thought of the problem with the VMS box trying tor8 reverse lookup the ip address he gets from the FW, which3 isn't either the real ip address of the smtp client: *or* the NAT'ed IP address.h  ; In the mean time I'v read about some things that can be put = into the SMTP.CONFIG file. Such as "good clients". Would thatr> override the fact the the IP address can't be reverse lookuped or is "unknown" ?r  B And, the particular IP subnet where the VMS box id, don't have any DNS environment anyway..   Jan-Erik Sderholm.p   phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu wrote:r > E > Your problems seems to be that the address used is not known in dns < > ( or whatever you use for reverse resolution). Adding this# > ip to rev-dns would make Y happy.- > ? > The fact that MTA has those ideas is a Goof Thing, since they 0 > by various mechanisms reduce the spam-problem. >n   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:10:45 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> $ Subject: Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT; Message-ID: <01KI2P8YF4BE96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   5 > I thought of the problem with the VMS box trying to-: > reverse lookup the ip address he gets from the FW, which5 > isn't either the real ip address of the smtp client0 > *or* the NAT'ed IP address.i > = > In the mean time I'v read about some things that can be put ? > into the SMTP.CONFIG file. Such as "good clients". Would that @ > override the fact the the IP address can't be reverse lookuped > or is "unknown" ?  > D > And, the particular IP subnet where the VMS box id, don't have any > DNS environment anyway.v  H As I've mentioned here before, it is easy to have a configuration where E all TCPIP applications work except SMTP.  SMTP does some checking to d? decide what to do with mail messages.  I'm still looking for a 06 flow-chart style description of the algorithm it uses.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2002 23:10:31 -0700  From: cor.mom@momss.nl (Cor Mom)9 Subject: Re: TIme conversions between C-time and VMS-timem= Message-ID: <774640de.0205222210.543c46f0@posting.google.com>e   Hi Rene,   Long time no see!i  C Have you checked this? You can read all of it on the OpenVMS FAQ atb the TIME4 section:  E Application code using Compaq C (formerly DEC C) will use the OpenVMS F UTC and TDF mechanisms when the C code is compiled on OpenVMS V7.0 andC later (and when the macro _VMS_V6_SOURCE is NOT defined).  Compaq CsB does NOT use the OpenVMS UTC and TDF mechanisms when the C code isD compiled on OpenVMS releases prior to V7.0, or when the preprocessor' declaration _VMS_V6_SOURCE is declared.   # Send my greetings to the HR people!    Cor Momt  c "R.S.H. Kwee" <rshkwee@nospam.hr.nl> wrote in message news:<acge92$k8j$1@eubuf21.eu.concert.net>...f> > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> schreef in bericht( > news:3CEB7565.6B4A9041@videotron.ca... > > "R.S.H. Kwee" wrote:E > > > But now we have the problem that we receive times in VMS formatp >  (quad-word,N > > > 100 nsec) and we must convert it to C-time (offset 1-jan-1970, in sec.). > > ) > > HELP RTL LIB LIB$CVT_TO_INTERNAL_TIMEe > > andr+ > > HTLP RTL LIB LIB$CVT_FROM_INTERNAL_TIMEm > >gM > > Typically, you would  LIB$SUB_TIMES  of the actual time - unix epoch time  > > J > > then you can use CVT_FROM_INTERNAL time to convert the above VMS delta >  timerH > > into seconds, which will give you seconds since the unix epoch time. > K > Yes, that is what we do, but when you feed this result to C-time routineslM > and, for testing, you print the result, then you get a difference of 1 or 2-H > hours (in our case, because we are GMT +1 and GMT + 2 in case of DST).E > Somehow the C-time routines know the offset. I have tried to adjustlB > SYS$TIMZONE_DIFFERENTIAL and SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGTHSAVING with no > result......   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:56:01 +0200n* From: "R.S.H. Kwee" <rshkwee@nospam.hr.nl>9 Subject: Re: TIme conversions between C-time and VMS-timea1 Message-ID: <acilci$ee3$1@eubuf21.eu.concert.net>S   Hi Cor,    Indeed, Long time no see!!  A I have not mentioned that we try al this in C++ and not in C.....o; So the mentioned macro (_VMS_V6_SOURCE)  is not avialable.. > I have read it, but it is not the solution for the problem....   Ren  / "Cor Mom" <cor.mom@momss.nl> schreef in berichtl7 news:774640de.0205222210.543c46f0@posting.google.com...:
 > Hi Rene, >e > Long time no see!  >-E > Have you checked this? You can read all of it on the OpenVMS FAQ atr > the TIME4 section: >iG > Application code using Compaq C (formerly DEC C) will use the OpenVMS H > UTC and TDF mechanisms when the C code is compiled on OpenVMS V7.0 andE > later (and when the macro _VMS_V6_SOURCE is NOT defined).  Compaq ChD > does NOT use the OpenVMS UTC and TDF mechanisms when the C code isF > compiled on OpenVMS releases prior to V7.0, or when the preprocessor) > declaration _VMS_V6_SOURCE is declared.s >t% > Send my greetings to the HR people!t >b	 > Cor Mom  >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:21:28 +0100s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>? Subject: Re: VCB02-C (8 plane colour graphics) in a VAX 4705A ? ) Message-ID: <3CECB497.CA3E1FA2@127.0.0.1>l   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >  > :1. Can this be done?a > H >   I do not know; I'd moved to AlphaStation and VAXstation systems long2 >   before this VAX 4000 series box was available.  ! OK I'll let you [the group] know!a  I >   Closer.  Usually the first open Q-22/CD or Q-22/Q-22 slot in the box,eF >   directly adjacent to the memory card for those VAX boxes using the >   PMI-based memory..  3 Thanks, I sort of thought that, but wasn't certain.   E > :Will it adversely affect airflow/cooling without the RF panelling?h > I >   Donno -- this was not particularly tested, due to EMI considerations.nG >   There was an S-box cover for this module, given the VAXstation 3500 F >   series was sold with the VCB02 controller.  (Some of these widgetsE >   had attached spines as handles, and some had detachable handles.)s  D These panels simply have the top and bottom 'levers', I presume theyF came from a Q4 worldbox (BA123) or even an MVII system. The DB15 is anC oblong panel similar to the 4 way DB25's found on early MicroVAX's.h  G I think I have a 'spare' panel I can mount the DB 15 onto and with lucktE a couple of blanking panels will also fit, but the cable restrictions  may give me a tights squeeze.   I > :2. As I don't have a 'proper' video/kb/mouse cable for this, if I swap J > :the wires for the 'red' and ground to suit a standard VAXstation cable,) > :will this be OK? (I have the pinouts).i > K >   "Standard VAXstation cable" meaning what?  (But if you have the pinouts8J >   and are using the same (old) mouse and keyboards, why are you asking?)  E I should have included the references, BC19S is the VAXStation cable, E BC18Z is the one for this. Using a BC19S means you get no 'red' (only H green and blue). Actually I've asked a dealer if they have any, but I'veG spotted one in the US, if I can afford (and they will) ship. The optionH6 is to modify the wiring to the DB15 to suit the BC19S.  F The main reason I ask the question is the RED video and a video groundG (green I think) are swapped. The remaining pins appear to have slightly F different designations although the keyboard and mouse work perfectly,E just no red. I could swap them for completeness, but should I bother?l  H > :(I'm prepared to try it, but I have to go to some effort retrieving aJ > :monitor and cabling but I'd still like advice on 1. above. I could justI > :get monitor and a 4000-60 workstation, but this seems like potentially 
 > :more fun.)- > H >   The VAXstation 4000 model 60 is one of the nicest VAXstation systemsF >   available.  Fast (for a VAX).  Multi-head capable, given the rightE >   graphics controller.  I/O is also much better than the Q-bus I/O.1  ? You know, I'll probably dig that out *as well*. Back to a 3 and9F occasionally 4 member cluster, but I'm open to (smallish) Alpha offers from the UK ;-)a  x% > :FYI: Modules are M7169, M7168 x 2.  > 8 >   This is the VCB02, 8-plane GPX.  1024 x 864 x 60 Hz. > H >   I would not attempt anything M7169 below rev E5, nor M7168 below B1.  F M7169 is rev E1, not entirely sure where to spot the rev number on theC M7168s, F1 is etched into the board adjacent the 5016745-01 number.   D Whilst I appreciate your comment, I think it is worth a try and I'llB report the results here, at least in the interest of posterity. MyE internet searches on this subject revealed little useful information.o  
 Thank you.   -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:48:23 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?-) Message-ID: <3CECBAE7.EBC84848@127.0.0.1>2   Bob Koehler wrote: > V > In article <3CEA74FE.27E40191@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > > J > > Which is bizarre. IBM are ready to junk AIX (which I believe is a moreE > > manageable UNIX) as soon as linux offers what AIX does. Oh, it'll < > > maintain it for those that want it, but interesting, no? > I >    Poor Gartner.  They went and said AIX and Solaris were the only UNIXm7 >    with a future, and IBM done gone and ignored them.<  G I had this from the horses mouth so to speak. What do people pay Garter0 for?   -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com9   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:52:59 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?o) Message-ID: <3CECBBFB.A8198C10@127.0.0.1>    Simon Clubley wrote: > G > Thanks for that piece of information; I was not aware of this. Do youl& > have any references to these plans ?  F Talk to your local IBM technical sales manager and ask about Linux and@ the implications for AIX. I believe the presentations are fairlyG standard though may have been updated in the 6 months since I saw them.o  D Gives you some interesting uses for that S/390 gathering dust in the
 corner ;-)4 (Whole / most IBM hardware range will support linux) -- y( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:59:52 +0100s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?-) Message-ID: <3CECBD98.4ED2C5AD@127.0.0.1>m  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >   7 > One reason for this is that Linux does not scale muchD5 > beyond 4 CPU's though peoples mileage may vary. The ! > Regatta boxes support 32 CPU's.> > < > So in this sense IBMs Linux strategy makes more sense even* > if the execution details make it horrid.  E I am led to believe that IBM are working on the SMP scaling of linux, F yes they appreciate it fairs badly in SMP systems, although 'clusters' like Rockhopper fare better.  9 > Port Linux to z900's hosted under VM and try to sell itm7 > as a consolidation for lots of Linux instances, dittoi7 > for OS400. Use this to host horizontally scaling appsd > like web farms, proxies etc. > 6 > Use MVS OS400 and AIX for the big vertically scaling4 > servers (SMP) that have to host the DBMS backends.  G This is pretty much their strategy. Have you seen the presentations, or % was it a really good guess / deduced?n  B The only flaw I see is it is linux. Being a jack of all [hardware]H systems, it is a master of none, as would be Solaris on Sun hardware for example.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com-   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:01:49 -0700 (PDT).. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?a@ Message-ID: <20020523110149.86762.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>  0 What it is important is the TCO of the purchased1 systems. If someone can write a good report aboutI0 OpenVMS x TCO x UNIX,  he/she can understand the
 arguments.   Regardsl   FC F& --- John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >  > "Simon Clubley" 6 > <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote > in	 > message / > news:rxg$rFG$D6MB@eisner.encompasserve.org...o > > 3 > > And speaking for myself, I would be very uneasyN > about recommending BSD6 > > as the preferred Unix, regardless of any technical > advantages, unless > thosel6 > > advantages turn out to be overwhelming. From where > I am, a VMS person3 > > moving more and more into Unix, it's simply tooe > much of an unknown to be" > > considered for production use. > >t2 > Notwithstanding the dearth of commercial support > offerings for BSD, some of1 > the arguements you raise in the paragraph abovea > apply equally well to VMSg+ > from the perspective of a unix or Windowsr# > addministrator, or the person whor0 > signs the cheques to purchase new hardware and > operating systems. > 5 > And that my friends is why I come back to the issuen > of what HP is going to3 > do about marketing to *NEW* non-VMS customers andt > create a proper academic > programme. >  >      =====o ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?% LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music ExperienceN http://launch.yahoo.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:28:45 GMTe+ From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org>s' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?h; Message-ID: <xv3H8.1527$Ir1.62304@twister.southeast.rr.com>.   From: MetaGroupf3 Linux on the Mainframe: Nice Place to Visit, But...nL http://www.metagroup.com/cgi-bin/inetcgi/search/displayArticle.jsp?oid=31059   --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPTC.com      5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3CECBBFB.A8198C10@127.0.0.1...e > Simon Clubley wrote: > >PI > > Thanks for that piece of information; I was not aware of this. Do you ( > > have any references to these plans ? >.H > Talk to your local IBM technical sales manager and ask about Linux andB > the implications for AIX. I believe the presentations are fairlyI > standard though may have been updated in the 6 months since I saw them.7 >1F > Gives you some interesting uses for that S/390 gathering dust in the > corner ;-)6 > (Whole / most IBM hardware range will support linux) > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comf   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2002 07:41:16 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?i3 Message-ID: <tH7ErfkdoAB$@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  x In article <VYHx8mJO$QZo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > J > Given Nic's information below, and Bob's above, it looks the choices forG > people wishing to go from VMS to a Unix variant have a choice between J > Linux or Solaris. What problems (from a VMS viewpoint) does Solaris have > that Linux does not ?e  C    Fewer choices of platform and less reliability in my experience.e9    On the other hand I think Sun has a better C compiler.d   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2002 12:44:36 GMT From: phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ? ) Message-ID: <acio7k$ecs$1@nyheter.crt.se>f  C Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-earth.ufp> wrote:ea > In article <acg7ud$c90$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 6 >> In article <VYHx8mJO$QZo@eisner.encompasserve.org>,H >>  clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >> |> N >> |> Given Nic's information below, and Bob's above, it looks the choices forK >> |> people wishing to go from VMS to a Unix variant have a choice between'N >> |> Linux or Solaris. What problems (from a VMS viewpoint) does Solaris have >> |> that Linux does not ?- >> -I >> So, can anyone here tell me why it is when Unix variants are discussed-I >> BSD gets ignored completely??  There are versions of BSD that will runsG >> on the hardware you currently own (VAX and Alpha), it is more stableeF >> than Linux in most cases.  It is frequently more secure than Linux.H >> And it has a world of applications including at least three differentJ >> Office suites.  Works great on both desktops and as servers.  They must0 >> be the Rodney Dangerfields of the Unix world. >> s  & > I assume that you are a BSD fan. :-)  C > The answer is quite simple: I simply didn't think of this option, I > even though I am aware of the existence of BSD. That would suggest thatnG > perhaps BSD needs some more promotion in order to be considered as anoG > option when people like myself start asking these types of questions.i  N > Another thing to consider: if people are forced off VMS, then, after pickingL > a set of candidate operating systems that are a good technical match, theyI > are likely to pick an operating system from this set which is likely to-M > survive for a long time and is likely to be heavily developed and promoted.rK > (The promotion is required so that they can feel that it's future will bef
 > secure.)  O > The last thing that people will want is to do is to move to another operatingfK > system that might be technically superior, but whose future is unknown orgL > uncertain, in case they have to go through the whole migration process yet > again.  J > If there's still more than one candidate operating system left after theM > above selections have been applied, then they are likely to pick a platform ! > that looks good on a future CV.e  M > This means that unless BSD is perceived along these lines, then it may not sK > be considered. Remember that in cases like this, what matters is what theI > reality is _perceived_ to be.e    B Judging by the number of security incidents reported BSD would be D one of the most likley replacements to VMS. RH and solaris are both A very weak "by default", both can be strengtened, up to the level   that openbsd does "by default".-     > Simon.   > -- aD > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       - > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.S   --   Peter Hkanson         57         IPSec  Sverige      ( At Gothenburg Riverside )tJ            Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out,; 	   remove "icke-reklam" if you feel for mailing me. Thanx.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:59:15 GMT 3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)e' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?). Message-ID: <DI5H8.7$xB2.19@news-srv1.fmr.com>  L One other reason could be that some folks are just beginning to learn how toN spell and pronounce "Linux" (note IBM's "mainstream" ads - still can't get the proper pronunciation!)  E Now you want to go and ask these same people to spell/prononce BSD???s   :-)2  _ In article <acg7ud$c90$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 4 >In article <VYHx8mJO$QZo@eisner.encompasserve.org>,F > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:X >|> In article <3CEA74FE.27E40191@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >|> > Phillip Helbig wrote:  >|> >> LM >|> >> > So right now I'd choose between Linux, Solaris, AIX, and IRIX, but ITJ >|> >> > can't recommend any one of those over any other.  You just get to8 >|> >> > choose between which problems you want to have. >|> L >|> Given Nic's information below, and Bob's above, it looks the choices forI >|> people wishing to go from VMS to a Unix variant have a choice betweenwL >|> Linux or Solaris. What problems (from a VMS viewpoint) does Solaris have >|> that Linux does not ?f >eG >So, can anyone here tell me why it is when Unix variants are discussednG >BSD gets ignored completely??  There are versions of BSD that will runeE >on the hardware you currently own (VAX and Alpha), it is more stableGD >than Linux in most cases.  It is frequently more secure than Linux.F >And it has a world of applications including at least three differentH >Office suites.  Works great on both desktops and as servers.  They must. >be the Rodney Dangerfields of the Unix world. >  >bille >  >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves.E >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.a >University of Scranton   | B >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>    Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"f "Lose the MAPS"S   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:09:13 +0100e' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>n' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?l2 Message-ID: <230520021509139536%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  D In article <acio7k$ecs$1@nyheter.crt.se>, <phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu> wrote:   <snip>D > Judging by the number of security incidents reported BSD would be F > one of the most likley replacements to VMS. RH and solaris are both C > very weak "by default", both can be strengtened, up to the level -! > that openbsd does "by default".h  E Something like 10,000 complete BSD desktop systems are shipping every  day from an unlikely source.  G The same source has announced a neat dual processor server in a 1U rack1 at a rather good price.  http://www.apple.com/xserve/  A I'm impressed. The unix underneath is far better than the dross ItC remember from long ago. I'm seeing better uptimes on my OS X laptopl. than on any well used NT desktop we have here.  @ It ain't VMS. It's not bad for a toy unix though. And it sure isA prettier than Gnome or X11 (which you can install if you want to)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 18:09:35 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> ' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?t0 Message-ID: <acj7oh$rmo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  2 > In article <acgbqj$1ka$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>,Z >  Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: > |>  = > |> Most of IBM's expenditure in the Linux space has been inr= > |> porting their existing applications to Linux and portingM= > |> Linux to OS/400 and hosted under VM on an IBM mainframe.B > |> u= > |> It is interesting to note that Linux on an S390, a trulyn> > |> awfull idea has garnered more interest and headlines than > |> OpenVMS recently. > = > Why do oyu find Linux on S390 to be a "truly awfull idea"??d    ; Performance, why buy pay over half a million for a smallish 7 z900 so that you can get worse performance than a 4 CPUX HP Proliant.  A Virtualisation, VM virtualising Linux instances is an interestinga? idea but Linux and the app you are running (probably WebSphere) A give you a resident set size including the OS and the Apps server F of a minimum of 256 MB more likely 512 MB. So you can support lets sayD 128 relatively modest Linux instances on a fully maxed out z900, notC BTW costing 500K but much more. For 128K you could buy 128 Sun X1'suC they would be faster than the IBM and just as easy to manage, thereTA are no management efficiences on the z900 only potential resource  utilisation improvements.     Then you get to SW availability.  ; The only possible use for it would be if you happen to haver7 spare capacity and cannot be bothered to buy a Sun or ae: x86 box so that your admins/developers can get access to a UNIX like environment.  " Appart from that its a great idea.     regards    Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:50:44 +0000o2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?t4 Message-ID: <20020523175044.A28802@eisenschmidt.org>   --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inlinea+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablee  L Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy (andrew_n=+ ospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com) Wrote:n >=20 > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >=204 > > In article <acgbqj$1ka$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>,L > >  Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@= sun#.com> writes: ? > > Why do oyu find Linux on S390 to be a "truly awfull idea"??b >=20 >=20= > Performance, why buy pay over half a million for a smallish 9 > z900 so that you can get worse performance than a 4 CPU1 > HP Proliant.  = Linuxworld had a great article about this a couple weeks ago:n  D http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/0416.mainframelinux.html  L The author said that it's not practicle to buy a 390 to run Linux, but it i=L s practical if you already have a 390 to run Linux in a VM. Interesting rea= ding.    --=20-/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>:6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  L FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turni= ng."   --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q' Content-Type: application/pgp-signature) Content-Disposition: inline    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----n Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD)n* Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE87Sv0H5fmozfjvvIRAo/xAKDBaUec7YtT4fzTjt3e2QuIegWcCQCgpLy7 8385lUhIq1YnKkI8tEhHX8o= =06Ad  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:32:00 +0100 4 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: xml and all that2B Message-ID: <1022142720.25299.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  K Our courier is able to supply parcel history in "industry-standard" xml via0 url.# We want to access this in two ways:s0 1) on a VT from an existing DECforms application5 2) by supplying a click-through url to our customers.   K I had a root around on the e-business cd yesterday, and on the Compaq site.m< Found documentation on xalan and xerces, but no actual code.. I'm not sure whether it's what I want, anyway.  L The url is no problem, and so it's relatively easy to fetch the xml document in C or Pascal.oK How should I parse it (typically 3-8 events, 6 fields per event) - is xalan, the way to go, or not ?c4 We've got VMS 7.3 & http_server, if that's relevant.I I could just roll my own, but if there's a freebie tool to do it properlys, with modest overhead, I'd rather learn that.0 The xml as supplied looks lousy in all browsers:, ie displays raw xml - not very user friendly: mozilla strips all the tags, and displays unformatted text, lynx downloads it rather than displaying it.A I think it just needs a stylesheet or something - is that right ?iK Or do I need to do more work to ensure reasonable appearance in V5 browserst ?s   Thanks,r Chris    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:41:18 GMTe, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com> Subject: Re: xml and all thatc8 Message-ID: <2P2H8.3$iK7.187535@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  J I suspect XALAN (to answer your question) is 'the way to go', but it has aJ [ahem] way to go. The problem, highlighted in a Brian Schaffner article inL yesterday's BUILDER.COM XML newsletter, involves clashing implementations ofJ jar files in different JDKs. I think you need to find out which version(s)J of XALAN.JAR are involved in your solution, and take the necessary evasiveD action (which I can't help you on, as I'm new to this stuff myself).  I As for browsers, I saw a demo of an XML-enabled browser 18 months ago, souL the things certainly exist. I don't know about support in IE though - it may> be there already, hiding amid the Internet Options somewhere).   b2   >   ? "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messagec< news:1022142720.25299.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...I > Our courier is able to supply parcel history in "industry-standard" xmlt viah > url.% > We want to access this in two ways: 2 > 1) on a VT from an existing DECforms application7 > 2) by supplying a click-through url to our customers.  > G > I had a root around on the e-business cd yesterday, and on the Compaqm site.e> > Found documentation on xalan and xerces, but no actual code.0 > I'm not sure whether it's what I want, anyway. >pE > The url is no problem, and so it's relatively easy to fetch the xml  document > in C or Pascal.rG > How should I parse it (typically 3-8 events, 6 fields per event) - isr xalano > the way to go, or not ?e6 > We've got VMS 7.3 & http_server, if that's relevant.K > I could just roll my own, but if there's a freebie tool to do it properlyo. > with modest overhead, I'd rather learn that.2 > The xml as supplied looks lousy in all browsers:. > ie displays raw xml - not very user friendly< > mozilla strips all the tags, and displays unformatted text. > lynx downloads it rather than displaying it.C > I think it just needs a stylesheet or something - is that right ?tD > Or do I need to do more work to ensure reasonable appearance in V5 browsers > ?n >o	 > Thanks,t > Chrisg >  >W   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 06:35:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Re: xml and all thatm, Message-ID: <3CECC5D4.6B8F8977@videotron.ca>   Chris Sharman wrote:M > I had a root around on the e-business cd yesterday, and on the Compaq site.u> > Found documentation on xalan and xerces, but no actual code.0 > I'm not sure whether it's what I want, anyway.   They used to be at::W http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/XML/download/XALAN-C_1_0-OPENVMS.ZIP U http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/XML/download/XERCES-C-SRC1_3_0.ZIPuO http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/XML/download/XMLTech_doc.zipm  ! I think that the "main" page was:eJ      http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/XML/get_files.html    $ That was quite some time ago though.   Requires C++   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 06:55:04 -0700e, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: xml and all thata4 Message-ID: <acisbp$pj75g$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  ? "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messageg< news:1022142720.25299.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...I > Our courier is able to supply parcel history in "industry-standard" xmln via6 > url.% > We want to access this in two ways:e2 > 1) on a VT from an existing DECforms application7 > 2) by supplying a click-through url to our customers.  >p  I We're using the xerces (C++) parser from HPQ with good success.  You said  youoG had the xml string, create a parser and do "parser->parse(*xmlstring)".  Catching anyJ exceptions.  See the DOMprint example.  Then you will need to pick through
 the nodes,2 grab the data and display it in your decforms. (1)  K There are a couple complications (of course).  One is C++, if you don't ownE
 a compilerJ and have some c++ knowledge available you are stuck, although the c++ code canoE be minimal if you wrap it in C.  Also the HPQ (c++) xerces library isa version 1.3 soK there are some conveniences (like x-path) that are not available.  HPQ saysa they% will update the version "this summer"c  H For your #2, I'm pretty hazy on this but with a style sheet and a modern
 brower you$ should be able to display it nicely.   Jim-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:53:18 +0100e5 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt>- Subject: Re: xml and all thate" Message-ID: <3ced0533@news.wau.nl>  7 "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com> wrote in messaged2 news:2P2H8.3$iK7.187535@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...L > I suspect XALAN (to answer your question) is 'the way to go', but it has aL > [ahem] way to go. The problem, highlighted in a Brian Schaffner article inK > yesterday's BUILDER.COM XML newsletter, involves clashing implementationsc ofL > jar files in different JDKs. I think you need to find out which version(s)L > of XALAN.JAR are involved in your solution, and take the necessary evasiveF > action (which I can't help you on, as I'm new to this stuff myself). >eK > As for browsers, I saw a demo of an XML-enabled browser 18 months ago, so?J > the things certainly exist. I don't know about support in IE though - it may(@ > be there already, hiding amid the Internet Options somewhere).  L IE (at least 5.5 and higher) supports XML. When the XML contains a referenceK to an XSL stylesheet, this will be applied inside the browser to render thes XML.   hths
 rob van lopiku       > >h >oA > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messager> > news:1022142720.25299.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...K > > Our courier is able to supply parcel history in "industry-standard" xmlh > viad > > url.' > > We want to access this in two ways:t4 > > 1) on a VT from an existing DECforms application9 > > 2) by supplying a click-through url to our customers.  > >tI > > I had a root around on the e-business cd yesterday, and on the Compaq  > site.c@ > > Found documentation on xalan and xerces, but no actual code.2 > > I'm not sure whether it's what I want, anyway. > >iG > > The url is no problem, and so it's relatively easy to fetch the xmle
 > document > > in C or Pascal.oI > > How should I parse it (typically 3-8 events, 6 fields per event) - ise > xalanh > > the way to go, or not ? 8 > > We've got VMS 7.3 & http_server, if that's relevant.D > > I could just roll my own, but if there's a freebie tool to do it properly0 > > with modest overhead, I'd rather learn that.4 > > The xml as supplied looks lousy in all browsers:0 > > ie displays raw xml - not very user friendly> > > mozilla strips all the tags, and displays unformatted text0 > > lynx downloads it rather than displaying it.E > > I think it just needs a stylesheet or something - is that right ?tF > > Or do I need to do more work to ensure reasonable appearance in V5
 > browsers > > ?  > >t > > Thanks,e	 > > Chris  > >u > >  >t >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:27:59 -0500rC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>  Subject: Re: xml and all thattH Message-ID: <craig.berry-8CDCE0.11275923052002@news.directvinternet.com>  B In article <1022142720.25299.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>,6  "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote:  M > Our courier is able to supply parcel history in "industry-standard" xml via  > url.% > We want to access this in two ways: 2 > 1) on a VT from an existing DECforms application7 > 2) by supplying a click-through url to our customers.-  N > The url is no problem, and so it's relatively easy to fetch the xml document > in C or Pascal.nM > How should I parse it (typically 3-8 events, 6 fields per event) - is xalans > the way to go, or not ?e  F xalan should work, but technically it's a stylesheet processor, not a B parser, and here we'd be talking about XSL (Extensible Stylesheet ? Language) stylesheets, not the older CSS (Cascading Stylesheet mG Specification) stylesheets that are borrowed from HTML.  I take it you fE want to convert the XML into a different display format, and XSL was IE designed specifically for that via XSLT (XSL Transformations).  XSLT .? can take you from XML to just about anything else, including a eB different XML document type, HTML, PDF, postcript, etc.  There is E nothing in principle that would prevent DECforms metadata from being 'E the target of one of these transformations, but you'd probably be on r+ your own to create the stylesheet to do it.u  E You could of course go the old-fashioned route, namely parse the XML |A and then write out the pieces surrounded by whatever metadata is eE appropriate for your target device.  This probably has less overhead aD the first time around but is less flexible.  Suitable parsers would G include xerces and expat.  The Perl module XML::Parser is available as  / well; it's essentially a wrapper around expat. c  2 > The xml as supplied looks lousy in all browsers:. > ie displays raw xml - not very user friendly< > mozilla strips all the tags, and displays unformatted text  B The mozilla behavior you describe is correct assuming there is no G stylesheet. IE 5 and later should do the same thing but doesn't always.t  . > lynx downloads it rather than displaying it.C > I think it just needs a stylesheet or something - is that right ?e  F With very recent browsers, XSL stylesheets might work.  With most 5.0 F and later browsers, a cascading stylesheet (CSS) should work with XML F but XML rendering by browsers tends to be very flaky and slow.  Also, H if you need to supply a stylesheet then I'm not sure how you would make C the URL a click-through; the document itself  needs to specify its   stylesheet.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:00:59 -0700-# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>, Subject: RE: xml and all thatr9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEMLFAAA.tom@kednos.com>U  @ Visual Age PL/I from IBM which runs on W2K as well as everything; else they have (unlike some companies) a builtin XML parsere   >-----Original Message----->I >From: Craig A. Berry [mailto:craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com]n% >Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 9:28 AMS >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: xml and all that >b >tC >In article <1022142720.25299.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>,o7 > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote:p > 3 >> Our courier is able to supply parcel history in c >"industry-standard" xml via >> url.e& >> We want to access this in two ways:3 >> 1) on a VT from an existing DECforms applicationT8 >> 2) by supplying a click-through url to our customers. >fC >> The url is no problem, and so it's relatively easy to fetch the n
 >xml documentd >> in C or Pascal.D >> How should I parse it (typically 3-8 events, 6 fields per event)  >- is xalan  >> the way to go, or not ? >tG >xalan should work, but technically it's a stylesheet processor, not a aC >parser, and here we'd be talking about XSL (Extensible Stylesheet e@ >Language) stylesheets, not the older CSS (Cascading Stylesheet H >Specification) stylesheets that are borrowed from HTML.  I take it you F >want to convert the XML into a different display format, and XSL was F >designed specifically for that via XSLT (XSL Transformations).  XSLT @ >can take you from XML to just about anything else, including a C >different XML document type, HTML, PDF, postcript, etc.  There is tF >nothing in principle that would prevent DECforms metadata from being F >the target of one of these transformations, but you'd probably be on , >your own to create the stylesheet to do it. >iF >You could of course go the old-fashioned route, namely parse the XML B >and then write out the pieces surrounded by whatever metadata is F >appropriate for your target device.  This probably has less overhead E >the first time around but is less flexible.  Suitable parsers would uH >include xerces and expat.  The Perl module XML::Parser is available as 0 >well; it's essentially a wrapper around expat.  >n3 >> The xml as supplied looks lousy in all browsers:a/ >> ie displays raw xml - not very user friendly = >> mozilla strips all the tags, and displays unformatted textl >mC >The mozilla behavior you describe is correct assuming there is no dH >stylesheet. IE 5 and later should do the same thing but doesn't always. >a/ >> lynx downloads it rather than displaying it.zD >> I think it just needs a stylesheet or something - is that right ? >tG >With very recent browsers, XSL stylesheets might work.  With most 5.0  G >and later browsers, a cascading stylesheet (CSS) should work with XML oG >but XML rendering by browsers tends to be very flaky and slow.  Also, nI >if you need to supply a stylesheet then I'm not sure how you would make  D >the URL a click-through; the document itself  needs to specify its  >stylesheet. >E >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.:; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com)..A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002p >n ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.284 ************************> In article <acgbqj$1ka$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>,L > >  Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@= sun#.com> writes: ? > > Why do oyu find Linux on S390 to be a "truly awfull idea"??b >=20 >=20= > Performance, why buy@    A    B    C    D    E    F    G    H    I    J    K    L    M    N    O    P    Q    R    S    T    U    V    W    X    Y    Z    [    \    ]    ^    _    `    a    b    c    d    e    f    g    h    i    j    k    l    m    n    o    p    q    r    s    t    u    v    w    x    y    z    {    |    }    ~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             	    
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