1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 25 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 288       Contents: cheapest VMS system in US P Re: Clustering VAX systems with IA-64 systems (was: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS  Creating Users Accounts  Re: Creating Users Accounts  RE: Creating Users Accounts  Re: Creating Users Accounts  Re: Creating Users Accounts  RE: Creating Users Accounts  Re: Creating Users Accounts & Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside1 Re: does Digital Networks not want any business?? , Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported?) Re: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture) ) RE: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture)  Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?  Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT # Re: VMS Clusters with FDDI/Ethernet # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 25 May 2002 10:37:20 -0700( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)" Subject: cheapest VMS system in US< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0205250937.73ce8702@posting.google.com>  E Seems that if you already have an IA32 PC you can run VMS on SIMH VAX   = http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CC699E7.372%40vcn.bc.ca   1 So the hardware is a no-cost item for most of us.   3 An EncompassUS membership is $90 for an individual.   / http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html   ? A VMS for VAX hobbyist kit is $30 (once they start selling them  again.)   + http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html   F You do end up with a system with console-only access (no networking orF X11 in SIMH yet) that you are not able to do any real work with due toC the license.  Unless you have a big honking PC it will be slow too, A but you get the benefit of zero additional footprint and hardware D maintenance over your existing PC.  Can anyone beat a bottom line of$ $120 for a full OpenVMS V7.2 system?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 18:00:26 +1000 = From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu> Y Subject: Re: Clustering VAX systems with IA-64 systems (was: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS  5 Message-ID: <C28BCA56A95C560FE5A4440D637E9646@plague>   ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message E news:rdeininger-2405021902160001@11cust83.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...   	 [deletia]  > K > Your company should contact OpenVMS product management folks, directly or G > via an Ambassador, and make your needs known.  OpenVMS Times (now HPS I > Times) is not particularly focussed on VMS, and your message might have +                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   K Well perhaps it should be called something more appropriate else people get D the wrong impression and assume that OpenVMS Times _IS_ particularly focussed on OpenVMS.   Ooroo  Mark F.. . & > missed the people who should see it.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 May 2002 06:32:13 -0700- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva)   Subject: Creating Users Accounts= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0205250532.589d47b3@posting.google.com>   = Is there any program or procedure to create users accounts ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 08:58:27 -0500 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> $ Subject: Re: Creating Users AccountsH Message-ID: <craig.berry-5F0E9D.08582725052002@news.directvinternet.com>  = In article <ddf392ea.0205250532.589d47b3@posting.google.com>, /  contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) wrote:   ? > Is there any program or procedure to create users accounts ?   E There are several.  You can start with SYS$EXAMPLES:ADDUSER.COM.  Be  G sure to read chapter 7, "Managing User Accounts" in the OpenVMS System  C Manager's Manual and Chapter 5, "Authorize Utility" in the OpenVMS  @ System Management Utilities Reference Manual, both available at $ <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc>.  H If you prefer to manage accounts via a GUI interface and have access to A a Win32 system, you can obtain the OpenVMS Management Station at  B <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/argus/index.html>.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 06:50:09 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: RE: Creating Users Accounts9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEPPFAAA.tom@kednos.com>   8 Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]  6 ADDUSER.COM;1       BACKUSER.COM;1      RESTUSER.COM;1   >-----Original Message----- 5 >From: Shiva MahaDeva [mailto:contracer11@uol.com.br] % >Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 6:32 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: Creating Users Accounts  >  > > >Is there any program or procedure to create users accounts ? >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------    Date: 25 May 2002 14:02:01 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> $ Subject: Re: Creating Users Accounts6 Message-ID: <20020525140201.32350.qmail@gacracker.org>  ? On Sat, 25 May 2002, Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote:  >Shiva MahaDeva wrote:B >> Is there any program or procedure to create user=B4s accounts ? > H >Since you are asking this in an OpenVMS news group, I assume you are=20 >using OpenVMS!  >  >Do the following: >  >$ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM  >$ RUN AUTHORIZE > $ >then, at the UAF> prompt, type HELP >  >HTH,    Also,   ( SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]ADDUSER.COM  $ Some modifications will be required.     Doc. --=20 6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.L ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net=   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 15:41:19 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> $ Subject: Re: Creating Users Accounts/ Message-ID: <3CEF947F.7020509@xs4all.nospam.nl>    Shiva MahaDeva wrote: A > Is there any program or procedure to create user=B4s accounts ?   G Since you are asking this in an OpenVMS news group, I assume you are=20  using OpenVMS!   Do the following:    $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM $ RUN AUTHORIZE   # then, at the UAF> prompt, type HELP    HTH,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 07:54:58 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: RE: Creating Users Accounts9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEABFBAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- I >From: Craig A. Berry [mailto:craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com] % >Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 6:58 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >Subject: Re: Creating Users Accounts  >  > > >In article <ddf392ea.0205250532.589d47b3@posting.google.com>,0 > contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) wrote: > @ >> Is there any program or procedure to create users accounts ? > E >There are several.  You can start with SYS$EXAMPLES:ADDUSER.COM.  Be G >sure to read chapter 7, "Managing User Accounts" in the OpenVMS System C >Manager's Manual and Chapter 5, "Authorize Utility" in the OpenVMS @ >System Management Utilities Reference Manual, both available at% ><http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc>.  > H >If you prefer to manage accounts via a GUI interface and have access toA >a Win32 system, you can obtain the OpenVMS Management Station at C ><http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/argus/index.html>.   G I had a look at this site, but I didn't see what it is that you install B on Windows.  It appear just to be the kit for OpenVMS.  Did I miss
 something?   >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:44:19 -0500 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> $ Subject: Re: Creating Users AccountsH Message-ID: <craig.berry-FFFC83.10441925052002@news.directvinternet.com>  9 In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEABFBAA.tom@kednos.com>, %  "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote: K > >From: Craig A. Berry [mailto:craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com]   J > >If you prefer to manage accounts via a GUI interface and have access toC > >a Win32 system, you can obtain the OpenVMS Management Station at E > ><http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/argus/index.html>.  > I > I had a look at this site, but I didn't see what it is that you install D > on Windows.  It appear just to be the kit for OpenVMS.  Did I miss > something?  H Go to the section labeled "Downloading the Kit", click on the link, and B read the instructions.  All the options are documented with great F clarity, though you might have to actually scroll down once to get to 0 the part that explains how to get the PC client.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 16:46:15 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> / Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no route to outside ' Message-ID: <3CEFA3B7.3F5F412E@Free.fr>    "Doc.Cypher" wrote:  > 
 > Bad news...  > H > http://www.eicon.com/worldwide/products/DSL/docs/Diva_2430_ADSL(3).pdf > H > "The Diva2430SE can connect to a *single* PC or notebook..." (emphasis	 > added).  > G > You either need to use your Mac as a NAT router, buy a NAT router, or : > change the modem for one that supports multiple devices.   So, I will install IPNetRouter.  Thank you everyone.    D. --  2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htm 2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 13:20:45 -0400 1 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> : Subject: Re: does Digital Networks not want any business??/ Message-ID: <uevhteriar3i02@news.supernews.com>   8 Digital networks wants everyone to buy through resellers   We arer a reseller for them      Email us your requirements   Thanks   -- Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404  Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332  International: 001 912 447 6622   Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.net  www.hpaq.net* <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A0E67E.013974B5@SendSpamHere.ORG...E > I've been trying to contact DNPG about some equipment price quotes.  > D > Sales@ and every email address from prior conversations with folksF > at DNPG have been rejected by their mail handler.  Does anybody hereD > have an address that will get me in contact with somebody at DNPG? >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >    ------------------------------    Date: 25 May 2002 23:45:35 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: Re: HSG80 Mini-merge, will it be backported? - Message-ID: <87n0uo9qow.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   " norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:   > Paul,   A > How is the number of failure points different in a HBVS and SAN 9 > setup different from any other remote VMScluster setup?    under...  B > I guess you are saying V6.2 is supported with V7.2* in migrationD > mode, so it would be involved in qualification, but I am guessing.  D Yes, 7.2-6.2 works. Adding 7.3 stretches the total verificaation and
 testing load.   B A SAN adds a second coms layer that is seperate from the SCS coms.E The `fun' in this stuff is not the big wipe out, it is from the nasty D little problem. Like everything working fine except for message fromA machine A to machine B. B to A works, everything else works... Or F transient errors. (Which is why the recomendation is to set VAXCLUSTERE to 0 or 2 rather than 1.) Running with these sorts or problems is bad F enought, add that *some* of the A-B data goes to the bit bucket and itD gets really nasty. There is a DTJ paper on shadowing that touches on9 some of this.  The SAN layer adds still more to the mess.   ? BTW, does anyone have the mid 80s IEEE and the like papers that A various people from DEC published, or a list of them so I can see   about getting replacment copies?   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 06:16:45 GMT ! From: Ian Parker <parker@gol.com> 2 Subject: Re: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture)/ Message-ID: <qmTTvuVRwy78Ew37@hiredata.gol.com>   = In article <acld82$2qvu$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon  " <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> writes0 >In article <1Bqk2IH2Gh78EwHn@hiredata.gol.com>,% > Ian Parker <parker@gol.com> writes:  >|> F >|> I too miss the power and flexibility of Algol 68.  There's still aL >|> compiler on the web somewhere.  Perhaps someday, someone will produce an' >|> object-oriented version (dream on).  >|>  >  >But then it wouldn't be Algol.  >  >bill  >  No, it would be Algool --  
 Ian Parker   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 06:05:51 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 2 Subject: RE: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEPOFAAA.tom@kednos.com>   > Data Resources out of Lexington MA used towrite all their codeG in Algol for a Burroughs machine (I believe that was also the language  @ in which OS had been implemeted)  When they decided to switch toD IBM 370's  they had to decide how to port all their programs.  AfterA some analysis, they decided to write their own Algol compiler for I the 370, that way they only had to get one program working, the compiler, D as opposed to rewriting and testing many hundreds of programs.  That@ compiler may still be available somewhere.  This was around 1982   >-----Original Message----- ) >From: Ian Parker [mailto:parker@gol.com] $ >Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 11:17 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >Subject: Re: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture)  >  > > >In article <acld82$2qvu$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon # ><bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> writes 1 >>In article <1Bqk2IH2Gh78EwHn@hiredata.gol.com>, & >> Ian Parker <parker@gol.com> writes: >>|>G >>|> I too miss the power and flexibility of Algol 68.  There's still a C >>|> compiler on the web somewhere.  Perhaps someday, someone will   >produce an ( >>|> object-oriented version (dream on). >>|> >>  >>But then it wouldn't be Algol. >> >>bill >> >No, it would be Algool  >--  >Ian Parker  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------    Date: 26 May 2002 00:25:38 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?- Message-ID: <87elg09ou5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   F > /TRANSLATION=TERMINAL is the definitive method.  Leading underscoresD > were a temporary method introduced in VMS V2, but I can't rememberE > the difference in meaning between a double leading underscore (gone 4 > and not lamented) and a single leading underscore.  D I *think* that was because V2 had enought of RSX that REDirect still2 existed, so the second underscore turned that off.  < Oh, and if you use logicals to forward mail from All-in-One!   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 12:00:03 +0200D9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r$ Subject: Re: smtp, firewalls and NAT' Message-ID: <3CEF60A3.1F9F9BBF@aaa.com>l  
 Thanks John !r Just a few notes...      John Johnstone wrote:p >  > H > When the SMTP receiver does the IP-to-name lookup and it comes back asI > non-existent, he just uses "unknown.hostname" as the hostname.  This isUE > mainly just for showing the hostname in the Received: header.  With]I > TCP/IP 5.0A, there should be no negative consequence of this.  Starting-J > with TCP/IP 5.1, the Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP option would determine
 > the result.   C We have now created a SMTP.CONFIG file and entered all options thatiG looked rellevant. Now, as you say, the manual I used was for 5.1 and wem2 actualy run 5.0, so I'm not sure which ones works.     >  > E > At first, I was thinking that your suggestion might be correct that F > messages that are sent from the VMS system are not reaching the SMTPI > sender.  It now seems that if system X sent an SMTP HELO command to the/E > VMS system, it would only do so if it successfully received the 220g% > startup banner from the VMS system..  = That would in other words say that we actaly *have* a workingo
 bidirectional(C link between both systems. Even when the link is initiated from thea	 X system.    > E > It looks to me like the problem is due to system X deciding that it H > wants to abort the SMTP exchange after receiving the 250 response fromG > the HELO command.  It is system X that is sending the QUIT command toaE > terminate the connection so I think the answer might be revealed bya+ > looking at things from the system X side.u  H Yes, I'v tried to make the folks that have control over the X systems to> come up with some trace logs from "there" side. Nothing yet...@ It's some kind of "script" that they have put together that runsG the actual session against the VMS smtp server. Might be a bug there...e       >  > G > You could use TCPTRACE on the VMS system to see how long it takes foraJ > the system X to send the QUIT.  If there's a delay, you could see if you* > can find out why the delay is happening.   Good idea !P We'll try that also.   > D > DNS has been mentioned in other replies as being a factor.  DNS isJ > entirely optional with SMTP.  Although it's quite common to have and useJ > MX records, mail exchanges do work without them.  MX records are used ifI > they exist.  If not, there only needs to be some means to ensure that aiF > sending system can connect to port 25 on a receiving system.  A hostI > name that resolves to an IP address does that.  An IP address alone caneG > be used but not all SMTP receivers accept that.  TCP/IP 5.0A actually52 > can accept mail that's sent to username@n.n.n.n.  A We have entered both the real (NAT'ed) IP of the X system and the- "common address"/ of the FW as "Good-Clients" in the SMTP.CONFIG.e  G And, as I sad in other replies, there isn't even any DNS environment ons  the subnet where the VMS box is.   > G > You mentioned that "sending mails Y -> X goes just fine".  That seems0J > unusual since from what was shown in the SMTP receiver log file, the VMSI > system can't do an IP address to hostname lookup of X's IP address.  IftH > there is a hostname entry for X in the VMS system's localhost file, an2 > IP address lookup of X's address should succeed.  G If can't do a lookup on the IP address seen when the X box make a call.iF But that's the "common IP address" of the FW, not the NAT address of X used when sending mails Y => X.m  @ Remember, when X initiates the smtp session, it's a call frm the "inside"H of the FW to the "outside", even if in this case the "outside" is just a: small internal subnet, not (as usual) the global Internet.   > F > Does a ping or traceroute using hostnames work?  If they work, is itH > possible that system X has two different IP addresses, one for inbound8 > connections and a second one for outbound connections?  @ Well, yes, in a way, but thoses two addresses are made up by the	 firewall.]E In inbound address is the one used by the VMS box when sending a mailgH X <= Y (the NAT'ed address), the outbound address is the one sees by theE VMS box when sedning a mail X => Y (the firewall's "common address").S  E In no case does the VMS box see the real "native" IP address of the Yu system.a   Well, thanks anyone so far !   Jan-Erik Sderholm.f   ------------------------------    Date: 26 May 2002 00:04:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: Re: VMS Clusters with FDDI/Ethernet- Message-ID: <87it5c9pt3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>A  & JKoska@bender.com (John Koska) writes:  h > pyeargi@yahoo.com (Peter Y) wrote in message news:<15a86a22.0205231031.1bbc0512@posting.google.com>...  E > > Alright...I have a situation on my hands and I'm looking for somed? > > advice on where to proceed.  I have a VMS cluster currentlysD > > configured with three local bootnodes attached to an HSJ via CI.D > > They are all networked via gig-E to a Cisco 6509 Switch.  I alsoC > > have a satellite that I am attempting to boot into the cluster.?A > > The satellite is running FDDI and is attached to a DECHUB 900 A > > Multiswitch.  The DECHUB is attached to a DEC Multiswitch 700FD > > which converts FDDI to Gigabit Ethernet.  In this configure, the% > > satellite boots with no problems.R  ( FDDI bridging to GbE, everyone is happy.  D > > However, when I add a VNSwitch900 FX module to the DECHUB900 andA > > connect its Fast ethernet uplink to the Cisco switch, thereby D > > bypassing the MS700, the satellite will not boot.  The satelliteF > > receives its operating system just fine as it did before, but whenF > > it goes out to look for its disk partition, it hangs indefinitely.A > > If I disconnect the Fast ethernet and reconnect the FDDI, thet8 > > system finishes coming up.  Anyone offer any advice?  C This indicates the cluster members do not have a single interconectaA where every machine can see every other. The iitial boot is fine,Y@ then it dies as LAA tries to get the SCS circuits formed and getA the new machine into the cluster. Packet size is one possibility,2D you may have re-invented the `dumbell ring' but with FDDI on on side@ and GbE on the other with a 100Mb in the middle. :) The other is8 that the SCS packets are not being bridged in the 900FX.  < Any reason not to use FDDI for the cluster on all the nodes?  F > I am not sure I understand your configuration completely, but I willB > offer this.  Gigabit Ethernet does not support network boot from > what I read and know.4   The boot *IS* working.   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2002 01:42 CDTM' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins- Message-ID: <25MAY200201425465@gerg.tamu.edu>c   Roy@Omond.net writes...u }JF Mezei wrote: } G }> > > My biggest gripe is about US coins.  They don't numbers on them!s }>Q }> I haven't had a problem with this, but an Aussi once commented on what was the  }> logic in "naming" the coins.j } I }All very well, but you're probably quite used to the coins.  Believe me,aK }even for a native English speaker, they are very confusing until you reachrR }your stage.  But then again, it's only the "furriners" who are inconvenienced :-)  E It seems to me that the only one that should be at all confusing to a H native English speaker is the dime. Nowhere on the dime does it say that; a dime = 1/10 dollar, or 10 cents, it just says "one dime".   9 }> Quarter is somewhat logical (one quarter of a dollar)."D }> Dime is a tad logical (probably derived from 1 tenth of a dollar)O }> But Nickel has absolutely no logic to it, especially since it is bigger thane }> the dime.  C Note that while it is *called* a nickel, the word "nickel" does nottA appear on the coin. On the coin it says (in rather small letters)@C "five cents". (For that matter, a "penny" doesn't have that word ont) it anywhere either - it says "one cent".)   @ The "nickel" variety of five cent coin has always been made of aA copper-nickel alloy that is mostly (75%) copper (nickel itself is>A too hard to be used for producing coins unless a lot of somethinga else is mixed in).  J The original "half dime" was made of silver (and was significantly smallerH than the current nickel - in fact, it was exactly half the weight of theJ silver dime produced at the same time and was somewhat smaller than todaysK dime), just like the original US dime, quarter, half, and dollar coins. ThetK first five cent "nickel" wasn't produced until the 1860's. The first nickelaH coin produced by the US was, of course, a copper-nickel alloy (with evenG less nickel than the current five cent coin, at something like 12%) one G cent coin produced in the late 1850's - when it came out, that one cent  coin was called a "nickel".r  D The original silver half-dime was something like 16.5mm in diameter,I shrinking to 15.5mm for the last varieties produced. They were only 0.7mm  thick.  C The silver dime also shrank, from 18.8mm to 17.9mm when it was laste= produced, although it increased in thickness from 0.9 to 1mm.s> The current dime is the same size as the last silver dime madeA (it is made from a copper layer clad on the top and bottom with a:1 layer of copper-nickel alloy, as is the quarter).3  D The original nickel five cent piece (the "shield nickel") was 20.5mmE in diameter, and grew to today's 21.2mm diameter - but it is actuallywE less thick than it was, a reduction of about 0.1mm in the 1880's from-
 1.7 to 1.6mm.   3 Yeah, I know. More than you really wanted to know. 0  O }> Canadian coins that are common wth the USA in size have the numbers on them.:] }> Our $1 and $2 coins are unique since the USA don't have such coins in popular circulation.   E The new (in 2000) Sacagawea dollar is in circulation and not all that ! uncommon. "Popular" is debatable.u  M }> It is really strange to see $1 paper bills in the USA. In Canada, when you P }> want to buy a chocolate bar, you reach into your pockets, but in the USA, you5 }> reach into your wallet to pull out paper currency.w } O }Yep, that's why I ended up with the gazillions of little coins in the pockets.a }I must have weighed a ton(ne).t }  }My 2.5 cents worth, } 
 }Roy Omond }Blue Bubble Ltd.e  I I don't think the use ever made a 2.5 cent coin. (There were 2 and 3 centeN coins in the mid to late 1800s. There were half cent coins in the original set< of US coins, produced in various types intil the mid 1800s.)  F But what the heck is a "quid"? A nickel is a nickel because is was oneD of the earlier US coins to be made with nickel (and it wasn't copperG colored, like the earlier one, two, and tree cent coins that had nickelaH in them). I strongly suspect that a quid isn't made out of quid (or even squid).k   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 04:06:46 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins, Message-ID: <3CEF460E.692C0E96@videotron.ca>   Carl Perkins wrote: G > The new (in 2000) Sacagawea dollar is in circulation and not all thate# > uncommon. "Popular" is debatable.a  + Have they stopped printing $1 paper bills ?   N In canada, when they introduced the $1 coin, it didn't take long for the paperN bills to be taken out of circulation. ( I think that a paper bill of low valueB lasts something like 6 months before it is no longer fit for use).     someone else said:Q > }Yep, that's why I ended up with the gazillions of little coins in the pockets..! > }I must have weighed a ton(ne).   L ah, but when you have $1 and $2 coins, you find that you have fewer quarters in your pocket.   ! > But what the heck is a "quid"? s   What is a Looney ?  L There is a difference between a "local" name for a currency, and the lack of& any indication of the value on a coin.  J When I was cycling in Taiwan, I couldn't read the road signs, but I had noL problems with the currency because while all text was in chinese only, thereK were roman numbers to indicate the value. But a taiwanese coming to the USA * would have no idea of the value of a dime.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 14:44:01 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins5 Message-ID: <250520021038321000%paul.anderson@hp.com>h  5 In article <3CEF460E.692C0E96@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei-% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   - > Have they stopped printing $1 paper bills ?:   No.l  P > In canada, when they introduced the $1 coin, it didn't take long for the paperP > bills to be taken out of circulation. ( I think that a paper bill of low valueD > lasts something like 6 months before it is no longer fit for use).  E I've seen figures of from nine to thirteen months as the average lifefE of a one-dollar bill in the US.  It costs 4 to make a bill and 8 tohG make a dollar coin, but the coin lasts for thirty years.  Actually, theoD coin will last indefinitely, but they tend to disappear after thirty
 years of use.u  D Bills take longer to give and receive in change, and longer to count= than coins.  This is why most countries have eliminated theirn4 low-denomination bills and replaced them with coins.  E Canada did the right thing by discontinuing the dollar bill after theaC dollar coin was introduced.  People in the US seem averse to changef (pun intended).c  N > ah, but when you have $1 and $2 coins, you find that you have fewer quarters > in your pocket.s  E Right!  Eliminating the penny and dollar bill, and using dollar coinsAC instead, will *reduce* the weight of coins in people's pockets, noto increase it.  @ Much more information about all of this is available at the Coin Coalition web site:       http://www.coincoalition.orgm   Paul   -- l  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringh   Hewlett-Packard Company-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 16:14:16 GMT:1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>a, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins7 Message-ID: <sLOH8.220$YV2.338121@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>s   >.H > But what the heck is a "quid"? A nickel is a nickel because is was oneF > of the earlier US coins to be made with nickel (and it wasn't copperI > colored, like the earlier one, two, and tree cent coins that had nickel'J > in them). I strongly suspect that a quid isn't made out of quid (or even	 > squid).u  L Quid is Brit slang for the pound. Why the Brits chose the pound for the nameI of its currency is beyond me, but same can be said for baht, dong, dinar,  etc.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 May 2002 00:44:10 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins- Message-ID: <87661c9nz9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  6 John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:  . > Now, a guinea - might be nearer your mark...  # As it is a  quid and a shilling. :)-   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 May 2002 00:42:45 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins- Message-ID: <87adqo9o1m.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ! Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:X  C > Yep, that's why I ended up with the gazillions of little coins in.. > the pockets.  I must have weighed a ton(ne).  D Funny, I had the same experience on the trans-channel ferry. 44 quidB in schrapnel! The on board restrant was nice enough to take it and return the `change' in BF.  F Worst thing with Greenbacks is that they are ALL green :( So you can't6 to a quick wallet check with a glance along the edges.   -- h< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.i@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.288 ************************