1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 27 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 292       Contents:" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...  Re: Autostart telnetsym queues! Re: C and PL/1 compiling together * Re: C and PL/1 compiling together - SOLVED Re: cheapest VMS system in US P Re: Clustering VAX systems with IA-64 systems (was: Re: DECUS Lyon:  Another VMSP RE: Clustering VAX systems with IA-64 systems (was: Re: DECUS Lyon:  Another VMSP Re: Clustering VAX systems with IA-64 systems (was: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS & Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMS Re: Disk Failures  Re: error reading TK70 Re: freeVMS  Re: Future of forms  Re: Future of forms  Re: Future of forms  Re: Future of forms  Re: Future of forms  Re: Future of forms . Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DEC' Re: OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 - system lockups ' Re: OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 - system lockups  Re: OpenVMS SAN  Re: OpenVMS SAN  Re: pbxga-aa/an on PWS500au  Pipes in DCL Re: Pipes in DCL Re: Pipes in DCL Re: Pipes in DCL Re: Pipes in DCL RMS: How many XABs do I need ?" Re: RMS: How many XABs do I need ? Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 VAX emulators (was freeVMS) # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins - Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins, measures " Re: [Change topic]: USofA'an coins  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:32:54 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> + Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins 8 Message-ID: <kp94fu8pc3qf696iello9epq4gkh6gu15b@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 24 May 2002 19:32:59 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert  Deininger) wrote:     B >All U.S. currency ever issued is still legal tender, though it is? >difficult to spend the unusual notes at your local 7-11 store.    I couldn't even spend a $100 !   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:09:38 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins ' Message-ID: <3CF26BBF.E3367689@fsi.net>    Alan Greig wrote:  > G > On Fri, 24 May 2002 19:32:59 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert  > Deininger) wrote:  > D > >All U.S. currency ever issued is still legal tender, though it isA > >difficult to spend the unusual notes at your local 7-11 store.  >   > I couldn't even spend a $100 !  H Lots of places in the U.S. have signs placed prominently explaining that> they will balk at or not accept at all bills in excess of $20.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 26 May 2002 23:26:14 -0700- From: tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...< Message-ID: <9f261edc.0205262226.31f541c@posting.google.com>   Steve,  F Good luck with the job-hunitng mate. There has perhaps been a *slight*C upturn in the amount of VMS vacancies in the last week or so, but I A got the impression from some of the agents involved that they had F received a lot of CVs for the positions advertised (though they didn'tB say as much). Wondering if we're stuck in a 'too much supply / too little demand' scenario.  C I've been having a long think lately about the whole OpenVMS scene, C and much as I *love* the OS (and I regard myself as a fairly expert F DCL coder, something I really enjoy), I'm probably gonna be looking to? some sort of 'exit strategy' from now on. HP's apparent lack of ? clarity about OpenVMS's future is the straw that has broken the C donkey's back. IMHO etc - I know they have stated their commitment, A but I can't stake my future on it. Ultimately the requirement for 6 OpenVMS techies is shrinking & will continue doing so.  F Still, I'd sooner have my first career die on ar$e when I'm "only" 31.D It has paid my way since I was 18 - maybe now's a good time to startC the next chapter. I'd rather be in this boat than to have it happen  when I'm 41, 51, etc...    Keep looking & best wishes.   
 Chris Bardell   b Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote in message news:<OF71BF52E2.D90AA93B-ON00256BC2.0042412B@btyp>...G > Probably fairly futile advertising the fact here, but isn't that what  > 'networking' is all about? >  > ;^D  > , > Anyway, unemployed from the end of June... > I > Someone said to me last night 'there's always a light at the end of the 6 > tunnel', thing is, I can't find the tunnel entrance. > 8 > Still, every silver lining has a cloud and all that... >  > Cheers > 	 > Steve S    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:36:04 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...8 Message-ID: <ops3fuoaksodvhq9sknqihj2nn9p50fo88@4ax.com>  F On 26 May 2002 23:26:14 -0700, tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) wrote:     > D >I've been having a long think lately about the whole OpenVMS scene,D >and much as I *love* the OS (and I regard myself as a fairly expertG >DCL coder, something I really enjoy), I'm probably gonna be looking to @ >some sort of 'exit strategy' from now on. HP's apparent lack of@ >clarity about OpenVMS's future is the straw that has broken theD >donkey's back. IMHO etc - I know they have stated their commitment,B >but I can't stake my future on it. Ultimately the requirement for7 >OpenVMS techies is shrinking & will continue doing so.  > G >Still, I'd sooner have my first career die on ar$e when I'm "only" 31. E >It has paid my way since I was 18 - maybe now's a good time to start D >the next chapter. I'd rather be in this boat than to have it happen >when I'm 41, 51, etc...  D And I've just been presented with a copy of a worldwide corporate IT? strategy review. For the first time it sets tentative dates for F beginning the final move away from MANMAN and hence VMS. The fact thatF HP have dropped MPE (about half our MANMAN sites are VMS and half MPE)@ was given as a major confidence blow. The material I provided onC Itanium port and extending the lifetime of MANMAN was also included  but only as a fallback option.  E Incredibly ironic that HP dropping MPE appears to have been the final  straw.  E So I currently have company documents that say we plan on phasing out ? MANMAN worldwide by 2003/2004. I expect financial and technical D reasons may delay this and the "fallback" option of retaining MANMAND semi-indefinitely and moving MPE sites to VMS is, at least, still onB the table. I continue to push hard for the "fallback" option but IF *must* have stronger statements out of HP than the current "as long as? they want it". Sorry that statement just isn't strong enough to A convince worldwide IT Director level and above that we won't find E ourselves totally marooned. It's not even as strong as the literature . HP gave us last year saying that MPE was safe.  ? So maybe late next year there will be yet another UK VMS system ? manager looking for work. I look forward to meeting Mark Gorham > tomorrow. Or Mark Goddamn as the spell-checker just suggested.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:02:53 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comD Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...: Message-ID: <OF37BEA968.6DE0C7DB-ON00256BC6.00419510@btyp>   Alan said [among other things];    ----  ? So maybe late next year there will be yet another UK VMS system ? manager looking for work. I look forward to meeting Mark Gorham > tomorrow. Or Mark Goddamn as the spell-checker just suggested.   ----  D I too would have liked to have been there, but unfortunately it's anH expense I can't justify now. As I'm currently in Reading anyway, perhap= s I  should gatecrash!   H As an aside, and further to some of the discussions going on here recen= tly,H I have tried the old 'networking' stragtegy, emailing mates who I know = haveF VMS in their workplaces. In the last week or so I have contacted SEVENH mates who work at VMS sites in the UK. Not one is staying with VMS, mos= t H are moving to Sun. The only potential role is a permie job looking afte= r H some Microvax 3100's paying 'up to' =A324,000 per year... oh, and no be= nefits to speak of.  	 Ho hum...    Cheers   Steve S       F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beH confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has=  H been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,=  $ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee i= s H not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received=  H this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the mess= age.  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.   H Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshir= e,D RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041. =    ------------------------------    Date: 27 May 2002 07:02:40 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205270602.6ac7347b@posting.google.com>   q tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) wrote in message news:<9f261edc.0205262226.31f541c@posting.google.com>...  > H > Still, I'd sooner have my first career die on ar$e when I'm "only" 31.F > It has paid my way since I was 18 - maybe now's a good time to startE > the next chapter. I'd rather be in this boat than to have it happen  > when I'm 41, 51, etc...   D I'm 35 and very much with OpenVMS - and that is the way it will stayD until hell freezes over, it's paid my way since the same time frame.  B I'll leave the "IT Industry" before I switch to another "Operating System".  D I'm up on diesel engines so will go that route if I have to - second? love after OpenVMS - maybe design - need a degree first though.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 14:23:34 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...8 Message-ID: <n6b4fuk52eki0auvo32m3nrnjahl3civ5g@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 27 May 2002 12:02:53 +0000, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:      [posted and emailed]  @ >So maybe late next year there will be yet another UK VMS system@ >manager looking for work. I look forward to meeting Mark Gorham? >tomorrow. Or Mark Goddamn as the spell-checker just suggested.  >  >----  > E >I too would have liked to have been there, but unfortunately it's an K >expense I can't justify now. As I'm currently in Reading anyway, perhaps I  >should gatecrash!   Steve,  E I will be in Reading tonight at the Travel Lodge 387 Basingstoke Road @ which I'm told is very close to the brewery. If you want to comeF officially I have no problem assigning you for the day as a contractorD to ourselves. Just don't expect us to pay you as well! We have DECUS@ UK corporate membership which means we only pay 30 per attendee? rather than the 135/200 attendance tomorrow costs. If you are B interested call me on 07968 063716 any time or email me before 4pmC today. Anybody else around tonight feel free to call if there's any * kind of meet-up tonight or to arrange one.  L >As an aside, and further to some of the discussions going on here recently,L >I have tried the old 'networking' stragtegy, emailing mates who I know haveG >VMS in their workplaces. In the last week or so I have contacted SEVEN I >mates who work at VMS sites in the UK. Not one is staying with VMS, most I >are moving to Sun. The only potential role is a permie job looking after L >some Microvax 3100's paying 'up to' 24,000 per year... oh, and no benefits
 >to speak of.  > 
 >Ho hum... >  >Cheers  >  >Steve S >  >  > G >______________________________________________________________________  >  >  >[Information] -- PostMaster: E >This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be H >confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasH >been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,% >distribute or use this transmission.  > I >Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is H >not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedL >this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >  >Thank you.  > E >Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT. < >Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228. > J >Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,E >RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.  >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:16:34 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...) Message-ID: <3CF23FC2.5FDC425D@Omond.net>   ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:    > [...snip...] > F > I too would have liked to have been there, but unfortunately it's anL > expense I can't justify now. As I'm currently in Reading anyway, perhaps I > should gatecrash!   E I'm in the same boat.  All of the DECUS events like this are just too 	 expensive M for us poor individuals.  135 per event is peanuts for corporations, but for N me it's the equivalent of a whole Tesco's shopping trip.  In any case, it just  K happens to coincide with a contract, and these days that makes the decision  rather "easy" :-(   M > As an aside, and further to some of the discussions going on here recently, M > I have tried the old 'networking' stragtegy, emailing mates who I know have H > VMS in their workplaces. In the last week or so I have contacted SEVENJ > mates who work at VMS sites in the UK. Not one is staying with VMS, mostJ > are moving to Sun. The only potential role is a permie job looking afterM > some Microvax 3100's paying 'up to' 24,000 per year... oh, and no benefits  > to speak of.  I I know one swallow doesn't etc., but one of the places I've contracted at G recently most certainly is not going away from VMS;  quite the contrary J they're expanding into Galaxies.  This place is a major institution in theM music industry, and is rather crucial for all musicians/songwriters/copyright  holders etc.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:01:41 +0100 * From: "Rainer Giese" <giese@volkswerft.de>' Subject: Re: Autostart telnetsym queues 5 Message-ID: <acsi46$sd76l$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>   = "Steven Bourdon" <sbourdom@rgv.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 6 news:lbbI8.139887$Q42.6842542@typhoon.austin.rr.com...	 > Helllo,  > I > Using TCP/IP 5.1 is it possible to create AUTOSTART queues with devices J > using the TELNETSYM? We have numerous IP printers and would like to haveJ > failover using the autostart feature.  I have looked around for info but) > only see support for the /ON qualifier.    I use it as follows:& INIT /QUEUE /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM@         /AUTOSTART=(node1::"printer:port",node2::"printer:port")   -- Regards, Rainer Giese   ------------------------------    Date: 27 May 2002 05:31:34 -0700, From: bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron)* Subject: Re: C and PL/1 compiling together= Message-ID: <b22333b7.0205270431.2207173b@posting.google.com>o   Tom,  9 Your help proved invaluable. Using the /extern=common and C /nomember_alignment switches helped the C code recognize the globalk4 PL/1 array although there were some linker warnings.  A FYI ... you can use the /names=(UPPERCASE) switch on the c or c++kC compiler to cause all symbol names to be uppercase as in PL/1, thiseF would save you some time renaming variables everywhere in c code, etc. and seems to work well.    Thanks again for the advice.  d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEPEFAAA.tom@kednos.com>...= > Sorry, can't help you on that, mercifully I have no need toi< > write C++, but in the example that was cited, if it were CA > code the name should be INVRECA not invreca in order to resolveU@ > the symbol.  My interest is in the PL/I side of things which a5 > product that we provide, for both OpenVMS and Tru64e >  > >-----Original Message-----o, > >From: Joe [mailto:cstranslations@msn.com]% > >Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 2:26 PM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- > >Subject: Re: C and PL/1 compiling together3 > >s > >o2 > >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 8 > >news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEOEFAAA.tom@kednos.com>...B > >> PL/I maps the name to upper case, what is the name in the C++ > >> module? > >DI > >I haven't done a lot of C++; however, in addition to the above are you D > >"doing something" about name mangling/decoration in the C++ code? > >1 > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.]= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).CC > >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  > >C > ---o( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------    Date: 27 May 2002 08:02:18 -0700, From: bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron)3 Subject: Re: C and PL/1 compiling together - SOLVED = Message-ID: <b22333b7.0205270702.38123d77@posting.google.com>-  F Thanks to all for your advice! Between you folks and the documentation' I solved my problem ... which was this:n  7 invRecord was a struct defined in a header file as suchg   struct invRecord {
  //members }u  5 what I was suing in my program to reference this was i   extern invRecord invreca[];e   when I should have been usingu  " extern struct invRecord invreca[];  B IT is, of course, safe to leave the struct keyword out in variableE declarations in C++ as structs are considered new types when created.-F However, this screwed the linker up somehow and it failed to recognize@ the the arrays were the same thing. So i'm a happy camper today!  
 Thanks again!n      q bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron) wrote in message news:<b22333b7.0205240638.6277dd84@posting.google.com>...m > Here is my problem:  > H > I am trying to integrate a module re-written in C++ back into a largerH > PL/1 program. The real problem is with a global array which is kept in8 > the PL/1 part which i need to access from my C++ code. >  > The PL/1 array:v >  > dcl 1 invreca(8) external, >       2 nameE >       /* there are other members of this structure, total structure  > size is 600 bytes */ > ( > in my C++ module I am currently using: >  > extern invRecord invreca[];/ > @ > to reference this array, where invRecord is C structure set up/ > _exactly_ as the structure in the PL/1 array.@ > > > However when I link this I get UNDEFINED SYMBOL warnings. ItD > apparently cannot see the members of the PL/1 global symbol table. > F > How can I get my C++ program to recognize this? Is it even possible?H > My supervisor seems to think they will integrate cleanly and from what- > I have read this appears to be the case ...  > E > p.s. I am compiling with optimisations off and float set to D_FLOATo* > (required by the old program I am using) > G > p.p.s. any references to OpenVMS documentation on this stuff would be'F > greatly appreciated as well, I haven't been able to find any myself. >  > Thanks in advance  > Jeff   ------------------------------    Date: 26 May 2002 23:44:09 -0700( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)& Subject: Re: cheapest VMS system in US; Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0205262244.bc245cb@posting.google.com>u  j 2damncommon <2damncommon@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<UH5I8.101551$lg4.1016733@news.easynews.com>... > Baby Peanut wrote: > J > > You do end up with a system with console-only access (no networking orJ > > X11 in SIMH yet) that you are not able to do any real work with due toG > > the license.  Unless you have a big honking PC it will be slow too,tE > > but you get the benefit of zero additional footprint and hardware H > > maintenance over your existing PC.  Can anyone beat a bottom line of( > > $120 for a full OpenVMS V7.2 system? > B > Associate membership to participate in Hobbyist Program  = $0.005 > http://www.encompassus.org/membership/benefits.htmlu > ' > Open VMS Hobbyist CD-VAX kit = $30.00u- > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.htmlh > < > Charon-Vax for Linux (or Windows) Hobbyist Version = $0.000 > http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/index.htm > , > Hours and hours spent reading docs = $0.00% > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/l2 > http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm > N > I hope these products will continue to be available for the hobbyist at low 3 > or no cost. I very much enjoy learning about VMS.    Thanks!g  E SIMH VAX full source code portable to multple UNIX and Wintel systemsa3 w/BSD-style ("mostly unrestricted") license = $0.00o http://simh.trailing-edge.com/  B It would be interesting to see a VMS port of SIMH since that would; create a Boch-like virtual machine environment for the VAX.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 09:53:45 -0400n- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> Y Subject: Re: Clustering VAX systems with IA-64 systems (was: Re: DECUS Lyon:  Another VMSr5 Message-ID: <actdq7$rpctj$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>t  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CEFF39B.7F8A407F@fsi.net...S > Robert Deininger wrote:l >...J > I trust you're prepared to wait the year or more currently scheduled for$ > commercial release of OpenVMS-IPF.    H We are. The VAXen we have are doing their jobs quite well, where it madeL sense from a performance point of view to migrate to Alpha machines we have.A The only reason to migrate the remaining VAXen is due to hardwareaK maintenance costs, but we have enough spare parts laying around we could goi. on self-maintenance if the costs get too high.  G > Experience has shown that if you wait until the "next thing" is readyPI > for prime time, you'll never do it - there's always something to followuE > the "next thing" that looks better. Look how many people waited foryG > Merced, are still waiting for Itanic, and will continue to wait untiltI > Intel finally manages to pull off what Alpha did getting onto ten yearst > ago. >...  E We are still waiting for something to come along that can replace theh various PDP machines around ;)   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 07:14:31 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>nY Subject: RE: Clustering VAX systems with IA-64 systems (was: Re: DECUS Lyon:  Another VMSt9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEBHFBAA.tom@kednos.com>   J Thanks, hadn't noticed this thread before, but FWIW I likewise put my $.02G in.  We run a mixed cluster, because we still use VAX SCAN for the PL/I I build, but more importantly a number of our customers have mixed clusters E where the essential workload is on the VAXes (such as running a steel-	 foundry), @ and some of them are expecting to run these until at least 2005.  L An interesting thought is that, as the emulators and the underlying hardwareK on which they run get better, the reason to port becomes less compelling, IgG mean who cares about the hardware really, the platform is VMS and if ittI runs adequately and the cost is right, why port?  If this were indeed thek case, I and then it would presumably be the VAX code base that would serve as the 	 platform, F which may well be the reason that HP haven't announced support for VAX beyond 7.3-1.   >-----Original Message-----a3 >From: Peter Weaver [mailto:peter.weaver@stelco.ca]a# >Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 6:54 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComG >Subject: Re: Clustering VAX systems with IA-64 systems (was: Re: DECUS " >Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)) >a >w= >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messagen" >news:3CEFF39B.7F8A407F@fsi.net... >> Robert Deininger wrote: >>...oK >> I trust you're prepared to wait the year or more currently scheduled fory% >> commercial release of OpenVMS-IPF.n >o >=I >We are. The VAXen we have are doing their jobs quite well, where it made_; >sense from a performance point of view to migrate to Alpha  >machines we have.B >The only reason to migrate the remaining VAXen is due to hardwareL >maintenance costs, but we have enough spare parts laying around we could go/ >on self-maintenance if the costs get too high.  >tH >> Experience has shown that if you wait until the "next thing" is readyJ >> for prime time, you'll never do it - there's always something to followF >> the "next thing" that looks better. Look how many people waited forH >> Merced, are still waiting for Itanic, and will continue to wait untilJ >> Intel finally manages to pull off what Alpha did getting onto ten years >> ago.i >>...  >.F >We are still waiting for something to come along that can replace the >various PDP machines around ;), >f >--o
 >Peter Weaverr; >Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of myr >employer, nor theL >company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to. >. >n >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.o; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).-A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002s >o ---.& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 09:46:12 -0400a- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>oY Subject: Re: Clustering VAX systems with IA-64 systems (was: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS  5 Message-ID: <actdc1$sgff2$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>o  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message"E news:rdeininger-2405021902160001@11cust83.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...o >...K > Your company should contact OpenVMS product management folks, directly ormG > via an Ambassador, and make your needs known.  OpenVMS Times (now HPS-I > Times) is not particularly focussed on VMS, and your message might haveg& > missed the people who should see it. >...  - The January 2002 issue of OpenVMS Times said;b   $ DECK$ We need your feedback on VAX systems  4 Compaq is investigating the feasibility of including6 OpenVMS VAX systems as nodes into a mixed architecture8 cluster. To a great degree, this decision depends on the3 actual customer requirements for having VAX systemsh/ in a production cluster in the 2004 time frame.e  3 To help Compaq make the right decision, please sendi- an e-mail to openvmstimes@compaq.com with thea8 subject line "VAX Clusters." Please include the business9 reason why VAX systems will still be required, along withi2 the number and models of the VAX systems required. $ EODe   That is what we did.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.!   ------------------------------    Date: 27 May 2002 05:47:00 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)d/ Subject: Re: Compaq TCPIP folks killing OpenVMS = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205270447.402175c2@posting.google.com>o   "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D909A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...m > Re: TCPIP V5.1 ECO 4 > 7 > ECO 4 is now available at the main public patch site.g >    Excellent! - Many thanks!a  I It's on my home machine now as I type this and will be installed tommorow  evening production.S  ?   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 4o7   on a Digital AlphaPC 164 500 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3e  E Thanks again! (and sorry to be a pain in the butt, but still confusedeG as to why the priority was put on 5.3 rather than to fix 5.1?). Someone I was up late/early on Friday/Saturday night/morning putting up the patches_# on the web site - much appreciated.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:46:40 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: Re: Disk Failures8 Message-ID: <ovv3fuo2po5j1jqopno1ace3nupoa3bob9@4ax.com>  < On 23 May 2002 12:38:16 -0700, Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org (Jack Trachtman) wrote:i  F >This year we purchased a Compaq SAN, including 84 of the new 36GB 15K >rpm disk drives.  >f> >So far we have replaced 17 of the disks as they have starting! >generating (recoverable) errors.  > E >Compaq has escalated this to Fujitsu but has not received a response,% >as to the high error (failure) rate.e  A Of course if Digital hadn't sold off its disk division they wouldeC never have had to escalate it an outside party. In a few years time7C maybe we have (at best) to look forward to "HP have escalated it to  Intel"  7 >Does anyone else have any experience with these disks?0   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:35:42 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: error reading TK70t) Message-ID: <3CF1FDEE.15A5E14F@127.0.0.1>    Pino Gargiulo wrote: >  > Hello, > J > Mine is probably a novice question but I could not find an answer in the > FAQs.'L > I have an old microVax 3300 with a TK70. I'm trying to read some old tapes > that3 > were wrttien years ago by someone no longer here.x > J > Mounting a couple of  tapes with mount/nowrite/ov=id mua0: revealed that > there E > are several savesets on them. On two tapes this procuder results ini > J >     %MOUNT-F-DEVOFFLINE, device is not in configuration or not available > L > while the other three don't have problems. However if I do a backup/list I > can L > list part of the tape, only the saveset that has the same name as the tape > label, the" > other files on tape are ignored. > M > I read all the help pages of backup but could not understand what I'm doingU > wrong.  E If you're going to read savesets, then use MOUNT/FORE the tape drive.i= You do not need to use any other commands, or the tape label.   H I would try a SH DEV MUA0: and see if you have any errors logged, if youH have, you could be running into hardware errors, which may mean the tapeA drive needs simply cleaning, all the way up to there are physicalyF problems with the tape drive, though that is unlikely. Dust and debrisH is the cause of most errors on these drives. Tapes when acclimatized andF if maintained in dust free dry conditions away from heat and magnetismH should be OK. Wait at least 24 hours before trying to use a cold tape in a room temperature drive.u  G The error message you get could be that the tape is erroring so much it4D is causing the problem. Look at the archives of this newsgroup usingE (e.g.) Google and search for problems with tapes, you'll find advice.   H You haven't said what you want to do with the recovered data you'll need a command like   BACKUP mua0: [recovered...]n  H and replace the name of 'recovered' with a name of your choice, but thisF isn't perfect if the tape has too deep a directory nesting or the disk hasn't the space, or...t   Hope this helps... -- P( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------   Date: 27 May 2002 13:58:15 GMT$ From: JKB <local@kepler.makalis.com> Subject: Re: freeVMS5 Message-ID: <slrnaf4erj.2te.local@Kepler.makalis.com>:  - Le Tue, 21 May 2002 at 12:21 GMT,  propos de3 Re: freeVMS,%  Tom Cole crivait dans comp.os.vms :  > A > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message_& > news:acc1ro$4j4$2@web1.cup.hp.com... >> > [blip] >>M >>   There are also at least three VAX emulators around for PC systems -- thehH >>   SRI Charon-VAX package, Bob's Trailing-Edge emulator, and one other > whose @ >>   name escapes me -- but all have been discussed here before. > K > Just for completeness, I believe that Tim Stark's TS10 emulator has a VAXr> > "flavor" and that he has gotten past VMS bootstrap at least. > M > There was a fourth one long ago but it never really made it out of the gatea- > for lack of documentation on hardware... :)b >  > -- > Tom Cole, tom.cole@sas.com >  >  >    	The 0.0.17 release is done...  	 	Regards,d   	JKB   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:03:32 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Future of forms& Message-ID: <3CF1CC34.4030409@home.nl>   Very good subject !@     JF Mezei wrote:iK > FMS is "mature" and doesn't get any more development and remains bound ton > character cell only. > J > Since I can't find documentation about DECforms on the VMS documentation> > website, i assume that the product is also mature. (is it ?)  I No, there is even some kind of web frontend, webconnector. However it is vF not really cutting edge technology. Hardly what you would like to use & with a big application and many users.   > F > If a customer wants to create a new application or update legacy FMSM > applications on VMS, what technologies should he look into ? Are HTML formsnN > really considered adequate considering all the issues of keeping the context5 > of a session etc etc (and the slow response time) ?t > ? > Is one just expected to build your own UIL files and C code ?D  H You could also consider a Java frontend. It is possible for instance to G build a application with a mix of Cobol & Java. There is an example in eG the Wizard. Java is used like any other VMS language in that case. Try b that with another OS !!7  F The nice thing with FMS is that you can accept field by field in your D application, and react on every field. For instance you can enter a G customer number in the appropiate field, and after you hit <tab> to go dI to the next field, all information of that customer is displayed on your iE screen instantly. HTML etc. looks more like a block mode terminal in xG that respect. You have to submit the whole page to the application and t wait for a reaction.  G I hope that it is possible to build a Java/Cobol application that will dC give us the advantages of a GUI application combined with the fast g! interaction of a FMS application.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 04:02:00 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Future of forms, Message-ID: <3CF1E7F7.ED71351D@videotron.ca>   Dirk Munk wrote:I > You could also consider a Java frontend. It is possible for instance toh1 > build a application with a mix of Cobol & Java.   N Not on all VMS. Because it was decided not to port Java to VAX, Java is not anJ option for me, unfortunatly. I would have really liked to see Java on VAX,B even if it meant slow execution, or restriction on floating point.  L Secondly (and more importantly), does Java offer any type of forms system ?     G > The nice thing with FMS is that you can accept field by field in your ( > application, and react on every field.  L And in my case, with the use of ALL-IN-1, FMS also defines the layout of theF RMS file and names every field. This makes all of the ALL-IN-1 scriptsL independant of actual file layout because A1 relies on the field definitiosnH (and field order) when it accesses the RMS file (also defined in the FMSL form). It was VMS equivalent of MS-ACCESS in many ways. Design the form, putJ it into a form library, and then you could even get All-in-1 to create the
 file for you..  J It is that type of functionality that I would like to replicate but with aK more modern user interface. X look sinteresting, but I would like to find a M way to combine a form's layout, the field definitions and the code to execute9B with each field in a single module, as was the case with ALL-IN-1.  F > screen instantly. HTML etc. looks more like a block mode terminal inH > that respect. You have to submit the whole page to the application and > wait for a reaction.  N HTML is even worse because it is connectionless and this means that the serverF side application must keep track of who is who and figure out that oneK "session" which hasn't had transactions in a while should be terminated etcvM etc. And you get into all sorts of problems with multi-step transactions whendL the user presses the BACK button or is trying to execute two transactions at1 the same time (on two different browser windows).p  H > I hope that it is possible to build a Java/Cobol application that willD > give us the advantages of a GUI application combined with the fast# > interaction of a FMS application.=  E But that would require some sort of FMS equivalent in JAVA that wouldx3 communicate with some server to access information.t  K X has the great advantage that it is the sever-computer (client in X terms)nK which initiates the connection to the terminal (server in X terms). From an2X authentication/security point of view, it is much easier since the connection continues.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:45:39 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>t Subject: Re: Future of forms' Message-ID: <3CF254A3.9000309@mmaz.com>c   JF Mezei wrote:0  J >FMS is "mature" and doesn't get any more development and remains bound to >character cell only.u >  r >eG I have systems that are still TDMS based and we've been trapped on VAX -G because of this.  The migration away from TDMS would be a huge project aD because Compaq would not EOL TDMS, a product that they have made no J enhancements or fixes for years, yet they still want the revenue stream.    I The same drum I've been beating, if I have to reinvent the wheel because tA of HP/Compaq, well we will survive with what we are or run or on iE emulators like Charon. but when we can move, it will be a clear move e9 from HP/Compaq if they continue to fail to support VMS...P  G I suspect that FMS is not too far from TDMS in this respect but I have  A not seen any mention of it being migrated to IPF where as Compaq c# provided a clear NO regarding TDMS.g  I Lastly, as for character cell support, we still do most of our work with eH termination emulation into our systems.  You can knock character sex as C not being 'sexy' but that fact is, folks who know how to type hate hI taking their hands off the keyboard to screw around with a mouse, so our wE shop prefers the current systems we are running when compared to the w alternatives of 100% GUI...e   Barry     I >Since I can't find documentation about DECforms on the VMS documentationa= >website, i assume that the product is also mature. (is it ?)  >.E >If a customer wants to create a new application or update legacy FMShL >applications on VMS, what technologies should he look into ? Are HTML formsM >really considered adequate considering all the issues of keeping the contextt4 >of a session etc etc (and the slow response time) ? >-> >Is one just expected to build your own UIL files and C code ? >0 >  >    >m   -- "  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028L   ------------------------------    Date: 27 May 2002 16:02:43 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>l Subject: Re: Future of forms6 Message-ID: <20020527160243.31670.qmail@gacracker.org>  I On Mon, 27 May 2002, Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com> wrote:t >JF Mezei wrote: >n >>N >> X has the great advantage that it is the sever-computer (client in X terms)N >> which initiates the connection to the terminal (server in X terms). From anE >> authentication/security point of view, it is much easier since theo >> connection continues.   <snip>  N >X has the major disadvantage in that it would require a VPN (I believe) to beJ >secure, is far too slow unless you have at least DSL or better speeds and= >requires special software to be installed at the remote end.   F Isn't the X11 forwarding capability of SSH useful for this? Or is thisH something completely different? Anyway, that would require that you wereG using a SSH supporting IP stack, and had appropriate client software tof8 manage the SSH tunnels. This is available freely though.     Doc. -- m6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net:   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:57:37 GMTu3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com>  Subject: Re: Future of forms5 Message-ID: <3CF2577B.946575AA@DigitalSynergyInc.com>    JF Mezei wrote:r   > M > X has the great advantage that it is the sever-computer (client in X terms)tM > which initiates the connection to the terminal (server in X terms). From ansZ > authentication/security point of view, it is much easier since the connection continues.  P While it is true that HTML is stateless and block mode, in reality we have foundM acceptable solutions for business applications. When we first started to move N our apps to the Internet, I thought we would have to go the Java route on someK of the more complicated programs but, after becoming proficient in HMTL andaL JavaScript, have been able to put our G/L, A/R, A/P, property management andL lockbox apps onto the Internet. It actually reduced the CPU load because theL apps deal only with pages and not fields and we use FastCGI which eliminatedH the overhead of starting a program and opening the databases each time aE menu item is selected. Our FastCGI apps run in a batch queue with thenK appropriate databases already open so it eliminates most of the overhead oft7 CGI and lets the web server run on a different machine.t  M X has the major disadvantage in that it would require a VPN (I believe) to be/I secure, is far too slow unless you have at least DSL or better speeds anda< requires special software to be installed at the remote end.  E BTW the VMS end of FastCGI for Apache is available on our web site at- www.digitalsynergyinc.com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 18:08:41 +0200c From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Future of forms& Message-ID: <3CF25A09.8070801@home.nl>   JF Mezei wrote:0 > Dirk Munk wrote: > I >>You could also consider a Java frontend. It is possible for instance ton1 >>build a application with a mix of Cobol & Java.n >  > P > Not on all VMS. Because it was decided not to port Java to VAX, Java is not anL > option for me, unfortunatly. I would have really liked to see Java on VAX,D > even if it meant slow execution, or restriction on floating point. > N > Secondly (and more importantly), does Java offer any type of forms system ?     G Depends on what you mean. Java does have a lot of special functions to n make forms etc.e   >  >  > G >>The nice thing with FMS is that you can accept field by field in your.( >>application, and react on every field. >  > N > And in my case, with the use of ALL-IN-1, FMS also defines the layout of theH > RMS file and names every field. This makes all of the ALL-IN-1 scriptsN > independant of actual file layout because A1 relies on the field definitiosnJ > (and field order) when it accesses the RMS file (also defined in the FMSN > form). It was VMS equivalent of MS-ACCESS in many ways. Design the form, putL > it into a form library, and then you could even get All-in-1 to create the > file for you.  > L > It is that type of functionality that I would like to replicate but with aM > more modern user interface. X look sinteresting, but I would like to find a0O > way to combine a form's layout, the field definitions and the code to executekD > with each field in a single module, as was the case with ALL-IN-1.  G Sounds great. I haven't actualy used ALL-IN-1, so I don't know if this 5< functionality can somehow be transfered to "new" technology.     >  > F >>screen instantly. HTML etc. looks more like a block mode terminal inH >>that respect. You have to submit the whole page to the application and >>wait for a reaction. >  > P > HTML is even worse because it is connectionless and this means that the serverH > side application must keep track of who is who and figure out that oneM > "session" which hasn't had transactions in a while should be terminated etcuO > etc. And you get into all sorts of problems with multi-step transactions whenaN > the user presses the BACK button or is trying to execute two transactions at3 > the same time (on two different browser windows).-   I agree    >  > H >>I hope that it is possible to build a Java/Cobol application that willD >>give us the advantages of a GUI application combined with the fast# >>interaction of a FMS application.1 >  > G > But that would require some sort of FMS equivalent in JAVA that woulda5 > communicate with some server to access information.m  ( True. This should be possible with Java.   > M > X has the great advantage that it is the sever-computer (client in X terms)aM > which initiates the connection to the terminal (server in X terms). From angZ > authentication/security point of view, it is much easier since the connection continues.  F This can be done with Java too AFAIK. And Java has the advantage that J you don't need a special (costly) sofware package like a X-Windows server.  G We tried to build the Java/Cobol example from the Wizard today, but we   did encounter some problems.  F First the sources are not without errors, several "}" were missing in  Java and C sources.R  H Secondly you also need the COM package for VMS. It is free, that is the 4 good thing, but it also likes Pathworks and DCE etc.  F It seems the resulting sofware is a kind of mix between VMS, Java and E Windows. That makes it dependend on Windows, and I don't like that a  F bit. So I wonder if it can be done without COM etc., just a pure VMS,  JAVA and TCPIP application !   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 14:28:35 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l7 Subject: Re: HP doesn't listen any more than CPQ or DECoI Message-ID: <norI8.125266$t8_.80977@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>m  I Sun would probably bid for it, just to keep it off the market. And assets C sold at a bankruptcy auction don't have to be supported any longer.e    5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageb7 news:d7791aa1.0205260933.1ef49fb4@posting.google.com... 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:<aWzG8.63883$ah_.16113@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... > >aC > > And for both h/w and s/w that's only binding for as long as ther	 corporatefF > > entity legally exists...so Bob, you better hope that HP doesn't go bankrupt2 > > before 2006 else you'll never make it to 2011. > >y >aB > so what, that would be the best thing that could happen possiblyD > for VMS ... maybe then I will buy it cheap at the courthouse thereC > in CA. ... how much do you think VMS would go for at the auction?a   ------------------------------    Date: 27 May 2002 03:59:54 -0700- From: martin.platts@cdl.co.uk (Martin Platts) 0 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 - system lockups= Message-ID: <b367fb16.0205270259.47ae6bab@posting.google.com>h   rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in message news:<rdeininger-2405020735020001@11cust95.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...   ! > You don't give much to go on...d > 1 > What kind of system(s)?  What adapter hardware?   = DS10 67/600 1GB, builtin-lan, external UWD (qlogic) SCSI RAIDhB DS20 6/500 (Dual), 2GB, DE500-BA, external LVD (symbios) SCSI RAID  I > Since CSC is involved, I will assume there's nothing interesting in thee
 > error logs.   ; Correct - nothing except timestamp - ditto on operator log.- > G > You should be able to get a crash dump, barring hardware problems.  IuG > guess CSC must be checking your system configuration around dump file:J > management, and they've likely given you advice on how to force a dump. I > If you can get to the >>> prompt, there are a number of alternatives ton > force a dump.e  A Er - nope. Press halt, get chevrons, type crash - system locks up  again at various stages.  eL > When you halted the system to the chevron, did it display the current PC? @ > How did you try to force the crash, and what was the response?  ; We're remote and forgot to ask user for PC - typed 'crash'.f  F > These problems could come from just about anything, given the littleL > you've told us.  Unsupported or out-of-rev adapters can cause this, as can% > any bit of hardware that's failing.   F All adaptors are official DEC/Compaq parts - the DS10 is brand new the LVD cards in DS20 are new.  < Just thought I'd see if anyone else had similar experiences.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:19:24 +01000( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 - system lockups) Message-ID: <3CF2163C.5A529E8D@127.0.0.1>c   Martin Platts wrote: >  > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in message news:<rdeininger-2405020735020001@11cust95.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...i >   K > > Since CSC is involved, I will assume there's nothing interesting in the  > > error logs.i > = > Correct - nothing except timestamp - ditto on operator log.H > >rI > > You should be able to get a crash dump, barring hardware problems.  I I > > guess CSC must be checking your system configuration around dump fileoK > > management, and they've likely given you advice on how to force a dump.eK > > If you can get to the >>> prompt, there are a number of alternatives toe > > force a dump.e > C > Er - nope. Press halt, get chevrons, type crash - system locks upo > again at various stages.  H > All adaptors are official DEC/Compaq parts - the DS10 is brand new the > LVD cards in DS20 are new.  F You know, this is sounding more and more like a hardware issue. My gutE feeling is that something on the system is locking it up. The days ofaH VAX and MDM are long gone, but if you've any board level diagnostics youE can run, I'd be tempted to set aside time to do that. Even go throughrE the pain of one by one replacement / removal / swap [of PCI cards] tot1 see if the symptoms can be isolated to something.d  H Possibly include the memory if you've more than one board you can use to remove / swap.  > Maybe not helpful to you, but this is how I'd approach it now. --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comf   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:30:35 +0100i( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: OpenVMS SAN) Message-ID: <3CF20ACB.1BB628C9@127.0.0.1>i   Brian Tillman wrote: > G > >We've has Solaris and HP-UX concurrently sharing the same SAN as VMS<	 > >boxes,m > I > What kind of equipment on the VMS side is needed for this?  Is an AlphaD2 > required, or do the controllers exist for VAXes?  G The Compaq available (PCI) Alpha only FibreChannel adapters. We were atc; 7.2-1 with ECO's but I'm fairly sure 7.2-2 needs ECO's too.   G For VAX's you can MSCP serve the disks, however there is a solution forr
 VAX folks:  H BOTHER. Can't find the reference. There is a French company that sell anH MSCP serving solution in a box for VAX folks who also want SAN. Email me< if you are desperate, and I'll dig harder for the reference.   -- M( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:07:08 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e Subject: Re: OpenVMS SAN' Message-ID: <3CF26B28.9888B481@fsi.net>a   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Brian Tillman wrote: > >nI > > >We've has Solaris and HP-UX concurrently sharing the same SAN as VMSe > > >boxes,I > > K > > What kind of equipment on the VMS side is needed for this?  Is an Alpham4 > > required, or do the controllers exist for VAXes? > I > The Compaq available (PCI) Alpha only FibreChannel adapters. We were at = > 7.2-1 with ECO's but I'm fairly sure 7.2-2 needs ECO's too.e  1 Most folks call it "GA" - "General Availability".f   I call it "GT" - "Gamma Test".  E I should think that most everything needs ECOs (M$ calls 'em "serviceeF packs") - there's bound to be stuff that doesn't fully shake out until> the software goes into wide-spread, real world production use.   -- g David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 07:44:15 +0200h From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>$ Subject: Re: pbxga-aa/an on PWS500au& Message-ID: <3CF1C7AF.4010405@home.nl>   Jeffrey Chimene wrote: > Dirk Munk wrote: >  > L >>The switches SW1 through SW4 are oriented from left to right on the spine, >>respectively.w >>5 >>     SW1 SW2 SW3 SW4   Pixel    Resolution  Refresha6 >>                      Freq(MHz)             Rate(Hz) >  > Q > Does this explain why the XFree TGA display manager only supports one modeline?hK > That is, a resolution change requires setting DIP switches and rebooting?   H Yes, most likely. It is the same as with my Powerstorm 4D20, resolution G and frequency changes have to be done by switches, and not by software i	 settings.e       >  > -- > microsoft free by 2003 >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 20:07:02 +0530 5 From: "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com>2 Subject: Pipes in DCL / Message-ID: <uf4gncgt87d6c2@corp.supernews.com>R   Hi,rL I would like to how to concatenate two commands in DCL or how to execute two  commands on single command line.   For example.@ In Unix we use pipes to send the ouput of one command to another $ who | grep martin ? and semicolon to execute more than one command at single prompt    Thanks Sandeep    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 16:49:46 +0100t* From: "Rainer Giese" <giese@volkswerft.de> Subject: Re: Pipes in DCLl5 Message-ID: <acth29$shtlo$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>    > $ who | grep martinn   In VMS :* $ pipe show user | search sys$input martin  A > and semicolon to execute more than one command at single prompt   % $ pipe first_command ; second_commandr   Regards, Rainer Giese   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:50:55 +0100M* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Pipes in DCLe, Message-ID: <acth3t$1g38@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  @ "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message) news:uf4gncgt87d6c2@corp.supernews.com...m  N > I would like to how to concatenate two commands in DCL or how to execute two" > commands on single command line.   See HELP PIPE.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 16:50:41 +0200p9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t Subject: Re: Pipes in DCLG' Message-ID: <3CF247C1.38C149F7@aaa.com>    $ HElP PIPEb   :-)f   Jan-Erik Sderholm   Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote: >  > Hi,rN > I would like to how to concatenate two commands in DCL or how to execute two" > commands on single command line. >  > For example.B > In Unix we use pipes to send the ouput of one command to another > $ who | grep martin A > and semicolon to execute more than one command at single promptt >  > Thanks	 > Sandeep    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:43:11 GMT ' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>  Subject: Re: Pipes in DCL 0 Message-ID: <i8itca.o7n.ln@dadsys1.fuller.local>   Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote:   > Hi, J > I would like to how to concatenate two commands in DCL or how to execute& > two commands on single command line. >  > For example.B > In Unix we use pipes to send the ouput of one command to another > $ who | grep martinnA > and semicolon to execute more than one command at single promptt  ) $ pipe show user | search sys$pipe martint   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 05:32:22 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>X' Subject: RMS: How many XABs do I need ?i, Message-ID: <3CF1FD1D.9BC13A11@videotron.ca>  N If I supply a XABSUM, it will get populated by a $OPEN and I can then know how  many keys there are in the file.  L Is there a way for me to then add to the XAB linked list a sufficient numberM of XABKEY blocks and get those populated so I can get the information on each  key ?i  J Will a $DISPLAY do the job ? Or must I $CLOSE the file and $OPEN it again,5 this time with enough XABKEY blocks to get the info ?S   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:09:56 GMTe? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)h+ Subject: Re: RMS: How many XABs do I need ?i0 Message-ID: <3cf213e3.16634208@news.demon.co.uk>  E You've got the method: add the XABKEYs, etc to the XAB chain and do aa	 $DISPLAY.    Jim.    , On Mon, 27 May 2002 05:32:22 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   O >If I supply a XABSUM, it will get populated by a $OPEN and I can then know howr! >many keys there are in the file.  >tM >Is there a way for me to then add to the XAB linked list a sufficient numbernN >of XABKEY blocks and get those populated so I can get the information on each >key ? > K >Will a $DISPLAY do the job ? Or must I $CLOSE the file and $OPEN it again,i6 >this time with enough XABKEY blocks to get the info ?   Jim Johnsono Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:25:21 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2,8 Message-ID: <00A0E8C7.5C4B81C6@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  = In article <d7791aa1.0205261819.5ca92e51@posting.google.com>, * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:   > C >this sounds alot like the problem we had w/tcpware and apache, anddD >it got to the point where we had restarts every 5 minutes and afterE >log analysis found out that broken pipes among other things were theaD >culprit ... I thought a patch had been put out, but maybe it didn'tE >do the trick ... that is why I told Q to buy Purveyor instead of therD >"what's popular" unix garbage, but to no avail ... looks like I was >right!L  D The purpose of porting Apache and producing CSWS is to sell more VMSD systems, or at least to avoid losing more VMS sales.  To the extent C that there is one, Apache is the industry-standard webserver.  With-E CSWS, Compaq could now say "not only do we have the industry-standardnE webserver, but our own engineers support it" and counter some of the @A opposition's points about a lack of software availability on VMS.l  E (This is why, in my opinion, CSWS and Java are the most important newpN VMS features of the last five years.  With them, there's a selling propositionG that makes it at least possible to get new customers in the e-commerce uH arena, whether or not sales and marketing follow through.  Without thoseK features, sales and marketing start with one hand tied behind their backs.)p  J Not a lot of people (with the exception of your operation, perhaps, but I J think you've said you only buy hardware used or at fire sales) were buyingM VMS systems to run Purveyor - certainly not enough to make it worth Process'syK while to keep Purveyor under development - and there's no reason to think ah3 lot more would have started if Compaq picked it up.t  K "Do you run Apache, the most popular webserver on the planet, with a lot of C webmaster and developer training and books available?"  "No, but wenL bought the rights to Purveyor, which wasn't popular enough to make it on itsO own, and which you'll have to learn without any third-party support."  _That's_p an attractive proposition.  L Note that the logic of this decision has zip, zero, nada, nothing to do withK the relative quality or VMS-appropriateness of Purveyor vs. that of Apache.oO Basically, if VMS is gonna be an ecommerce player at all it has to run Apache - L even if some perfectly sensible sites find that WASD or OSU or Purveyor fit  better for them.   -- Alano  O ===============================================================================-0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056eM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210tO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 27 May 2002 05:30:28 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) # Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2s< Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205270430.5274cb5@posting.google.com>  x "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> wrote in message news:<acqoc7$rk1d1$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>...	 > Hi all,t > < > ever since having set up CSWS 1.0 I have observed that the= > web server becomes unresponsive now and then (once in threet? > days up to a few times a day). No problem, I wrote a DCL/Perlu  F Hmmm, it seems Apache brings out the worst in more than 1 TCPIP stack.H I wrote the following watcher for Apache/TCPIP Services ... if it helps.  D Interestingly, I received a patch for the socket/memory leak problemB and it changed the behaviour in that the connect would go through,E however no data transfer. Previously the connect would not go though.t  E Sorry for the line wrapping as I work with 80 chars when coding - webm) site names changed to protect the guilty:n   /*     Facility: APACHE_WATCHER.C  
     Abstract:n  @         Watch out for locked up Apache web servers and fix them.  E         Due to a bug in TCPIP Services where multiple processes sharen@         a listening socket, a process can become locked onto theE         listening socket thus preventing new connection requests frome         being serviced.   H         When the condition exists, the number of web server subprocessesI         will die down to MinSpareServers. Killing these subprocesses will #         get the server going again.e  L         This program works by attempting to connect to specified web serversJ         and will kill all subprocesses of locked servers (as we don't know$         which subprocess is locked).  <     Environment: Run as the user the web server is run under       Author: Patrick Young2       Date: May 15, 2002       Modification History:s        May 23, 2002   Patrick YoungF         Received patch from HP, TCPIP$INTERNET_SERVICES.EXE V5.1-15AK.  D         Connect now passes, however still cannot transfer data - now>         sending command to web server and expecting data back.   */  J /* Below, place each host name and port that each of your Apache instancesC    listens for. The third parameter is the process name you run theeK    corresponding instance as. Probably only need to look at one process for$+    each instance, however I am paranoid. */m   #define SERVERLIST \&     "a.b.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_1 " \&     "c.d.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_1 " \&     "e.f.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_1 " \&     "g.h.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_1 " \*     "i.j.web.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_1 " \&     "k.l.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_1 " \&     "m.n.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_2 " \&     "o.p.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_2 " \&     "q.r.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_2 " \&     "s.t.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_2 " \&     "u.v.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_2 " \&     "w.x.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_2 " \.     "y.z.banking.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_3 " \,     "aa.bb.web.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_3 " \(     "cc.dd.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_3 " \      "ee.ff.ORG 80 TEACHING_3 " \(     "gg.hh.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_3 " \,     "ii.jj.web.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_3 " \(     "kk.ll.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_4 " \(     "mm.nn.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_4 " \,     "oo.pp.web.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_4 " \,     "qq.rr.web.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_4 " \,     "ss.tt.web.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_4 " \(     "uu.vv.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_4 " \(     "ww.xx.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_5 " \,     "yy.zz.web.unsw.EDU.AU 80 TEACHING_5 " \"     "aaa.bbb.COM 80 TEACHING_5 " \     "ccc.ddd.ORG 80 TEACHING_5"p  ; /* Poll interval - seconds to sleep between server polls */r   #define SERVERPOLLTIME 120  B /* Username to mail when a server is detected as locked up, and an    attempt is made to fix it */y  " #define SERVERNOTIFYUSER "PATRICK"  8 /* Command to send to web server to test for response */  . #define SERVERCOMMAND "OPTIONS * HTTP/1.0\n\n"   /* Includes */   #include <descrip.h> #include <jpidef.h>i #include <lib$routines.h>  #include <netdb.h> #include <pscandef.h>d #include <ssdef.h> #include <starlet.h> #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h>t #include <string.h>  #include <stsdef.h>a #include <unistd.h>d   /* Main program */   int main() {  N     char buf[255], host[255], mailcmd[255], port[6], *serverptr, procname[16];  +     /* TCPIP socket for test connections */n       int sockfd, nottalking;g  (     /* For select (wait for response) */       fd_set im;#     struct timeval tval = { 3, 0 };   E     /* Item list to scan for all subprocesses of specified process */-       struct {           unsigned short unused;         unsigned short code;         unsigned long value;%         unsigned long specific_flags;y  D         } ps_itmlst[2] = { 0, PSCAN$_MASTER_PID, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 };  ,     /* String descriptor for process name */       struct dsc$descriptor_se?         procname_dsc = { 0, DSC$K_DTYPE_T, DSC$K_CLASS_S, 0 } ;>  $     /* Host and socket structures */  &     struct hostent hstent, *hstentptr;$     struct sockaddr_in socknm, name;  1     /* Current process ID, context, and status */H  #     unsigned long pid, pidctx, sts;        while (1) {            serverptr = SERVERLIST;S  C         while ((serverptr - SERVERLIST) < sizeof(SERVERLIST) - 1) {a  :             /* Obtain current server from list provided */  @             sscanf(serverptr, "%s %s %s", host, port, procname);G             serverptr = strstr(serverptr, procname) + strlen(procname);e               /* Create socket */o  C             if ((sockfd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) != -1) {p  !                 /* Lookup host */V  @                 if ((hstentptr = gethostbyname(host)) != NULL) {  (                     hstent = *hstentptr;:                     socknm.sin_family = hstent.h_addrtype;8                     socknm.sin_port = htons(atoi(port));K                     socknm.sin_addr = * ((struct in_addr *) hstent.h_addr);   ,                     /* Attempt connection */  #                     nottalking = 1;f  I                     if (connect(sockfd, (const struct sockaddr *)&socknm,f/                         sizeof(socknm)) == 0) {e  @                         /* Connect OK - talking to web server */  N                         if (send(sockfd, SERVERCOMMAND, sizeof(SERVERCOMMAND),:                             0) == sizeof(SERVERCOMMAND)) {  )                             FD_ZERO(&im);20                             FD_SET(sockfd, &im);  B                             if (select(32, &im, 0, 0, &tval) == 1)  H                                 if (read(sockfd, buf, sizeof(buf)) != 0)3                                     nottalking = 0;f                               }d  ,                         shutdown(sockfd, 2);&                         close(sockfd);                           }   %                     if (nottalking) {2  D                         /* Not talking to web server - send email */  &                         close(sockfd);  E                         sprintf(mailcmd, "MAIL NL: " SERVERNOTIFYUSERPC                             "/SUBJECT=\"APACHE_WATCHER: %s", host);   I                         if (!((sts = system(mailcmd)) & STS$M_SUCCESS)) {,  P                             printf("cannot send mail to " SERVERNOTIFYUSER"\n");(                             return(sts);                               }d  >                         procname_dsc.dsc$a_pointer = procname;E                         procname_dsc.dsc$w_length = strlen(procname);:  B                         /* Get process ID of web server process */  J                         if ((sts = lib$getjpi(&JPI$_PID, 0, &procname_dsc,;                             &pid, 0, 0)) & STS$M_SUCCESS) {t  5                             ps_itmlst[0].value = pid;)  G                             /* Get a context to subprocesses to kill */f  N                             if ((sts = sys$process_scan(&pidctx, ps_itmlst)) &0                                 STS$M_SUCCESS) {  7                                 /* Kill subprocesses */v  P                                 while(lib$getjpi(&JPI$_PID, &pidctx, 0, &pid, 0,7                                     0) & STS$M_SUCCESS)   B                                     if (ps_itmlst[0].value != pid)  K                                         if (!((sts = sys$delprc(&pid, 0)) & =                                             STS$M_SUCCESS)) {1  L                                             printf("cannot delete pid %x\n",5                                                 pid);n8                                             return(sts);  -                                             }   *                                 sleep(60);  !                                 }a  "                             else {  I                                 printf("cannot initiate process scan\n");a,                                 return(sts);  !                                 }I                             }e                           else {  N                             printf("cannot find process name %s\n", procname);(                             return(sts);                               }b                         }-                     }-                   else {  "                     close(sockfd);=                     printf("cannot resolve host %s\n", host);s&                     return(SS$_ABORT);                       }e                 }a               else {  1                 printf("cannot create socket\n");n"                 return(SS$_ABORT);                   }t
             }            sleep(SERVERPOLLTIME);  	         }      }u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 19:36:09 +0200-2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2s; Message-ID: <3cf26e89.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>t  * Patrick Young (P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU) wrote:A > "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> wrote... > > > ever since having set up CSWS 1.0 I have observed that the? > > web server becomes unresponsive now and then (once in three,A > > days up to a few times a day). No problem, I wrote a DCL/Perla  # Thanks, Patrick. I'll give it a go.B   cu,<   Martin -- uH    Emacs would be a great   | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer5    operating system,        | work: mv@pdv-systeme.derH    if only it came with     |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/<    a decent editor...       | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 07:19:38 -0700-# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEBHFBAA.tom@kednos.com>p  ; It would be interesting if someone in the know would post aP  comparison of the VAX emulators.   >-----Original Message----- , >From: JKB [mailto:local@kepler.makalis.com]# >Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 6:58 AMe >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: freeVMS  >m >.. >Le Tue, 21 May 2002 at 12:21 GMT,  propos de
 >Re: freeVMS,o& > Tom Cole crivait dans comp.os.vms : >>B >> "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message' >> news:acc1ro$4j4$2@web1.cup.hp.com...- >>> 	 >> [blip]2 >>> ? >>>   There are also at least three VAX emulators around for PCj >systems -- the I >>>   SRI Charon-VAX package, Bob's Trailing-Edge emulator, and one other  >> whoseA >>>   name escapes me -- but all have been discussed here before.  >>L >> Just for completeness, I believe that Tim Stark's TS10 emulator has a VAX? >> "flavor" and that he has gotten past VMS bootstrap at least.  >>B >> There was a fourth one long ago but it never really made it out >of the gate. >> for lack of documentation on hardware... :) >> >> --- >> Tom Cole, tom.cole@sas.como >> >> >> >0 >	The 0.0.17 release is done...f >e
 >	Regards, >t >	JKBX >u >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.-; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >r --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:09:03 +1200d" From: "AG" <a_n_g@x_t_r_a.c_o.n_z>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins3 Message-ID: <UznI8.4108$EZ5.473275@news.xtra.co.nz>:  6 "Patrick Young" <P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message7 news:55f85d77.0205252049.1fab1f4d@posting.google.com...n: > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( news:<3CEEA643.16DDAFB8@videotron.ca>...L > > Australia and New Zealand both have the $2 coin much smaller than the 1$ coin.4C > > And they *seem* to be identical in size (at least the $2 coin).a  L Hmmm, really? Just checked my pockets and NZ $2 coin is still the same as it was theiF last time - much larger than the $1 one. Of course, "much larger" is a relative term butm) at least it does mean "not smaller than".a   > >I9 > > Australia doesn't have a $0.25 but have a giant $0.20L > > K > > Both countries were smart enough to get rid of the $0.01 piece and whenu youB7 > > pay cash, the price is rounded to the nearest $0.05p >aB > 1c and 2c both copper coins - both useless - glad they are gone.  L Of course now-a-days both of them are worth much more than the nominal value at numismatic shops:)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:30:32 +1200e" From: "AG" <a_n_g@x_t_r_a.c_o.n_z>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins3 Message-ID: <2UnI8.4120$EZ5.474224@news.xtra.co.nz>i  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:25MAY200201425465@gerg.tamu.edu...e > Roy@Omond.net writes...t > }JF Mezei wrote: > }eI > }> > > My biggest gripe is about US coins.  They don't numbers on them!e > }>K > }> I haven't had a problem with this, but an Aussi once commented on whati was the ! > }> logic in "naming" the coins.t > } K > }All very well, but you're probably quite used to the coins.  Believe me, G > }even for a native English speaker, they are very confusing until you  reach A > }your stage.  But then again, it's only the "furriners" who aree inconvenienced :-) >tG > It seems to me that the only one that should be at all confusing to aoJ > native English speaker is the dime. Nowhere on the dime does it say that= > a dime = 1/10 dollar, or 10 cents, it just says "one dime".o   Well, "yeah, right"    >oE > Note that while it is *called* a nickel, the word "nickel" does notnC > appear on the coin. On the coin it says (in rather small letters)r > "five cents".e  ? So what do you do when you get a "software change request" fromn@ States-side which specifies that so-an-so number must be rounded. to a "nickel"? (Whatever that critter may be;)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:26:24 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>f, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins8 Message-ID: <6u04fug4iu6biv76t20segui1elvm3fm31@4ax.com>  D On Fri, 24 May 2002 09:51:23 +0100, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:   >John Reagan wrote:k >  >> [...snip...]v >>I >> Here in Boston, once you get inside of US Customs all signs are mostlym@ >> in English only.  Not very friendly for non-English speakers. >>C >> My biggest gripe is about US coins.  They don't numbers on them!o >aI >Careful John.  Your gripe about USofA'an coins is a rats' nest I've beenaF >down before (still locatable in groups.google.com).  I was threatenedA >with physical violence for having the audacity to complain about A >them.  I had just come back from my first trip to the USofA, ando  D Don't try to buy milk with a 100 dollar bill at a 7-11 late at nightE either.  Memo to our internal travel office "Please do not provide mel6 with expense advances in denominations of 100 dollars"  B I was later told that successfully getting change from 100 dollarsF late at night was sometimes a prelude to armed robbery as it indicatesB that the employees have immediate access to a reasonable amount ofE cash. Therefore employees are instructed to say they can't change it.9E In the UK I would expect perhaps "do you have anything smaller".  Not,E "we can't accept that under any circumstances" as happened In Dallas.=F In the end I had to go back to the hotel for a credit card just to buy milk.0  C >had been completely baffled by the the whole of the currency thereR@ >(all notes the same size and colour, the coins as you mention).? >I recall walking around with pockets bulging with loose changep< >preferring to attempt to pay for everything with notes that@ >would obviously be big enough to cover the charge.  The locals,   Ditto!!!  D And then there was the EDS (I was part of a client audit team) staffD restaurant issuing receipts dated 2008. That was fun explaining thatB one  to our accounts dept.. And somewhat embarrassed EDS that theyE couldn't even keep the tills accurate or the security door clocks for.B that matter. I got stuck behind a door signalling time error as itD thought it was 2am and my audit team pass wasn't valid at that time.F Given that problems with our NTP service was one of our issues we keptF up the running joke about EDS running their tills and doors from their& NTP servers, for the rest of the week.  @ >co-incidendtally it was Boston, were, ahem, "unappreciative" of! >the difficulties with the coins.  >k. >Just my 5 cents (or whatever it is :-) worth, >u
 >Roy Omond >Blue Bubble Ltd.e   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:05:42 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins8 Message-ID: <5g24fus1u4pv0spl85m02cc84qu8u98p7a@4ax.com>  D On Fri, 24 May 2002 11:49:09 +0100, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:    O >Yep, that's why I ended up with the gazillions of little coins in the pockets.  >I must have weighed a ton(ne).i  F Oh yeah, forgot my other little disaster at Dallas/Fort-Worth Airport.  & "Could you please empty your pockets?"  E Then imagine me pulling about $50 dollars worth of coins out of everytF conceivable pocket or storage place and eventually scattering the hugeD pile all under the X-Ray equipment while soldiers in camouflage gear? with big shooting sticks try their best not to join in with theXF airport staff falling about with laughter as this daft Brit appears to: be attempting to leave the US with all the coins in Texas.  B In the end I just told them to leave them as I didn't want them toE shut down the machine and  go crawling around for coins in the middletE of tight security. Btw although everyone laughed I think it did causel? a little bit more attention to be given to me than usual in themE departure lounge and I was photographed by the same two "tourists" atGD opposite ends of the airport. I suppose better they double check any/ unusual occurrence than ignore it given events.G   >\ >My 2.5 cents worth, >U
 >Roy Omond >Blue Bubble Ltd.s >D >U   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:28:12 +0100C% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>C, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins8 Message-ID: <vt44fucq2hl47up7qmcaam71vnaq5bt5m4@4ax.com>  F On Sat, 25 May 2002 14:44:01 GMT, Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> wrote:   >wF >Canada did the right thing by discontinuing the dollar bill after theD >dollar coin was introduced.  People in the US seem averse to change >(pun intended).  E In the UK 1 pound notes were phased out years ago but not in Scotland4E (or perhaps Northern Ireland).  The decision to phase out the 1 note.B was taken by the UK government and the bank of England but someoneE forgot that Bank of England can't tell the Royal Bank of Scotland etc E what to do so they carried on issuing them. Nobody is legally obligedbF to accept them in England (but almost always will do together with theF comment "I wish we still had them in England") and cannot legally giveD them out in change. At least one major UK chain attempted to provide@ English customers with Scottish notes on request but the Bank ofE England forced them to stop. For non UK readers Scottish currency andtE Bank of England currency are both valued in "Pounds Sterling" so haveO exactly the same value.   0 Oh well one day we'll all be on the Euro anyway.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:43:09 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>u, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins8 Message-ID: <f964fuku763fr8ph6vv5d05b8hhmkv41f4@4ax.com>  4 On Sat, 25 May 2002 19:43:31 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:,   >vG >who still wonders why some British quid coins say DECUS on the side...     Cost them a fortune that did :-)  > Decus et Tutamen it says on UK pound coins. "An ornament and aF safeguard" Historically the ridges round the edge of the coin and thisD text had to be visible to ensure that someone hadn't scraped off the= edges. Back in the days when money was real metal with value.u  B Scottish coins say "Nemo me impune lacessit" which means something= like "Nobody impunes me without justice" - the legal motto ofeD Scotland. Allowing regional variations in the pound coin was done toF try and placate the Scots and force them to drop the Scottish 1 note.C Prior to this all UK coinage was standard but printed money varied. C The Scottish Banks carried on printing anyway and the government ineA conjunction with the bank of England pretended that it had alwayshC intended to regionalise the coinage in any case. Thus we have welshvF one pound coins which say "Pleidiol Wyf  I'm Gwlad". Which is probablyE Welsh for something rude about the English... No idea what a Northern  Ireland coin says.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:12:13 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> , Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins8 Message-ID: <3e84fug6cdecuei7i91rs898guh8quosb6@4ax.com>  : On Fri, 24 May 2002 17:09:03 -0700, "Kenneth H. Fairfield"7 <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net> wrote:     F >    I remember an undergraduate working in our lab when I was in gradG >school (in California).  He was from Philadelphia and I always cringed G >when he said the word "error".  He pronounced it "ur-ur" (the sound ofcI >the "er" in the word "runner"), whereas I'd _always_ heard it pronounced J >"air-or", or slightly slurred as "air-ur", with the 1st and 2nd syllablesI >run together.  In order to even say "ur-ur", it takes nearly a full-stopk >between syllables...   E I was glad to hear George Bush say "nuclear" yesterday. When he firstAD took office I recall him referring to "nucular weapons". Or maybe heB was right and nucular weapons are something highly classified. ButB then I come from a part of Scotland where we put a "u" in film and pronounce it "filum"   > 	 >    -Ken    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:20:08 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> , Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins8 Message-ID: <gm84fusnrlkjesnk4lar9lm3qni3cjalht@4ax.com>  < On 24 May 2002 18:26:49 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  > >In article <9f261edc.0205240546.56ab8dc6@posting.google.com>,1 > tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) writes:  >|> F >|>                             When Clinton was in the White House, II >|> even heard a UK newscaster pronounce "Arkansas" as it's spelled. Dear < >|> oh dear, 10 seconds research would have sorted that out. > D >If you mean like "ar" "kansas" as opposed to "arkansaw" that is howF >it was pronounced until at least the 50's.  I have a rather extensive  = Surely the "Arkansas Chuck-a-bug" standardised pronounciationp world-wide. :)  C >collection of Old Time Radio Shows and am amazed at how many words 6 >have changed their american pronunciation since then. >  >bill    -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:15:03 GMT 3 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.ie.removespam> , Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins- Message-ID: <rjqI8.7995$04.22909@news.iol.ie>c  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message1 news:sLOH8.220$YV2.338121@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...&  I > Quid is Brit slang for the pound. Why the Brits chose the pound for the  >name K > of its currency is beyond me, but same can be said for baht, dong, dinar,&  J It comes from the obsolete unit of weight by the same name (well, obsolete over here anyway).  H It was originally the value of 1 pound weight (454 g) of sterling silverH (the name 'sterling' now applies to the currency).  British pennies wereI originally made of silver, and it took 240 of them to weight 454 g, hence C the strange number of pennies to the pound (with the shilling as an E intermediate, with 12 pennies to the shilling and 20 shillings to the  pound).   I The US founding fathers were sensibly quick to throw out these cumbersome K units and move to the world's first decimal currency, which spread all over E the world since (reaching here in 1971).  Unfortunately, it has taken K significantly longer for the US to extend this simple and brilliant idea toe other units of measure.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 16:48:58 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>f, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins' Message-ID: <3CF2475A.FC1D8220@aaa.com>    Alan Greig wrote:b >  > 2 > Oh well one day we'll all be on the Euro anyway. >   4 Right, and then having, how many variants of coins ?/ Is it 8 or 10 times the number of EU countries.n4 Remember, one side of the Euro coins are "local", so2 there are as many variants as there are countries.   Pretty insain, if you ask me.r  @ And all this at a time when almost everyone (at least in Sweden)+ uses there bankcard anyway when shopping...    Jan-Erik Sderholm.an;   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:40:01 +0100a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins) Message-ID: <3CF26161.4D75C05F@127.0.0.1>6   Alan Greig wrote:1 > C > conjunction with the bank of England pretended that it had alwaysrE > intended to regionalise the coinage in any case. Thus we have welshsH > one pound coins which say "Pleidiol Wyf  I'm Gwlad". Which is probablyG > Welsh for something rude about the English... No idea what a Northerna > Ireland coin says.  D Where there any plans for a "Yorkshire" version of the pound coin? ID expect that would say something rude about Lanky folk, whose coin in turn... :-)   @ In my pocket I have a 2001 2 pound coin which says "Marconi 1901 wireless bridges the atlantic".v  G If he knew what broadcast radio was like today he'd have abandoned it. o   -- r( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 16:31:35 GMTo1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)M, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins< Message-ID: <HbtI8.142856$Q42.7001476@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  & Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net) wrote:> : On 24 May 2002 18:26:49 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill : Gunshannon) wrote: : @ : >In article <9f261edc.0205240546.56ab8dc6@posting.google.com>,3 : > tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) writes:S : >|> H : >|>                             When Clinton was in the White House, IK : >|> even heard a UK newscaster pronounce "Arkansas" as it's spelled. Dear>> : >|> oh dear, 10 seconds research would have sorted that out. : >rF : >If you mean like "ar" "kansas" as opposed to "arkansaw" that is howH : >it was pronounced until at least the 50's.  I have a rather extensive : ? : Surely the "Arkansas Chuck-a-bug" standardised pronounciatione : world-wide. :) : E : >collection of Old Time Radio Shows and am amazed at how many wordss8 : >have changed their american pronunciation since then. : >a : >bill  :   C IIRC, Arkansas City, Kansas uses the '"ar" "kansas"' pronunciation d  H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailu   ------------------------------   Date: 27 May 02 19:58:05 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 6 Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins, measures) Message-ID: <kQ6oXh9HIB5R@elias.decus.ch>i  r In article <Pine.LNX.4.33.0205241951160.28412-100000@vger.vgersoft.com>, Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com> writes:& > On Fri, 24 May 2002, Everhart wrote: > F >> Of course we have this decimal currency system which does not forceG >> people to learn to do arithmetic properly as the old British coinagegF >> did. After awhile we forget the measures. A firkin is I believe 1/4H >> barrel, but how many gallons to a barrel? Bushels and pecks are stillG >> familiar since all the roadside stands have bushel and peck baskets.aD >> It is of course always fun to express, say, the speed of light in >> rods per fortnight... > J > I always thought that a firkin was an Olde English measure, usually usedG > in units of two to denote an excess. For example, two firkin big, two$ > firkin heavy, etc. > F I've always understood that usage to be a slang pun on the swear word.  @ A firkin is 9 Imperial (i.e. UK) gallons, 4 firkins to a barrel.  : For the rest see http://home.clara.net/brianp/volumes.html   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 14:14:19 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com+ Subject: Re: [Change topic]: USofA'an coinsc: Message-ID: <OFFBAC8557.76E93E02-ON00256BC6.004E1DBC@btyp>  H The Pound Sterling was originally [in Saxon times] equivilant to a pound7 weight of silver. A shilling was one-twentieth of this.e   Cheers   Steve S:        E "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> on 05/25/2002 04:14:16 PM     To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:ZI From:      "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>, 25 May 2002, 4:14m            p.m.Y  # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coinsm       >rH > But what the heck is a "quid"? A nickel is a nickel because is was oneF > of the earlier US coins to be made with nickel (and it wasn't copperI > colored, like the earlier one, two, and tree cent coins that had nickelnJ > in them). I strongly suspect that a quid isn't made out of quid (or even	 > squid)..  G Quid is Brit slang for the pound. Why the Brits chose the pound for then nameI of its currency is beyond me, but same can be said for baht, dong, dinar,h etc.              F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has G been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,o$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received K this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.a  
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