1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 29 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 295       Contents:" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins" ALPHAPC164, 8x128MB SIMMS, success; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... 6 Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?! Re: Building csws 1.2 from source ! Re: Building csws 1.2 from source ! Re: Building csws 1.2 from source ! Re: Building csws 1.2 from source ! Re: Building csws 1.2 from source ( CDE front panel on more than one display$ Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date( Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date( Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date2 Re: CSWS: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?2 Re: CSWS: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?, Re: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?, Re: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?- Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning  Re: Hobbyist licences 9 Holy S__T! Was:JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???  HP Storageworks  Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? RE: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?* JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???F Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...F Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...F Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...! Next Generation IA64 test results % Re: Next Generation IA64 test results % Re: Next Generation IA64 test results % Re: Next Generation IA64 test results  Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales# Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) " Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins) Re: pbxga-aa/an on PWS500au  Re: pbxga-aa/an on PWS500au  Re: Pipes in DCL9 POLYCENTER PRODUCT CONFIGURE/CONFIGURATION=(INPUT,OUTPUT)  Re: Powered by HP  Re: RF74 HDA formatting. RE: RF74 HDA formatting. Re: RF74 HDA formatting. RE: RF74 HDA formatting. Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?  Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?  RE: Stallards smoking gun!
 Strange crash 9 Re: Sync on green with Elsa Gloria Synergy or Oxygen VX1?  Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: Units (was  USofA'an coins)  Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?# RE: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins " Re: [Change topic]: USofA'an coins" Re: [Change topic]: USofA'an coins  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:25:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> + Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins , Message-ID: <3CF3D9C3.9BE12BA9@videotron.ca>   Carl Perkins wrote: E > For example, starting in 1993 all bills except the $1 bill have had H > microprinting. The "line" around the portrait looks slightly ragged onJ > these because, if you look cloesely enough, it is actually microprinting3 > which says "United States of America" repeatedly.   J The $100 dollar bill was revamped in 1995, put into circulation late 1995.M That was the first one with the embedded strip and microfine printing, larger D portrait etc. I was at a presentation made by the folks in charge ofN counterfieting in the USA (hint Washington DC) in September 1995 where the newY bills were explained to bankers and the process of replacing the old ones also explained.   H There was also recognized the need to train as many people as possible ,5 especially shopkeepers on detecting counterfiet ones.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:57:18 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)+ Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2805022257180001@11cust207.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  F In article <28MAY200206383723@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:     C >One problem with the new design is that the design on the front of I >all the bills is visually very similar. The scroll work around the edges D >had considerably greater variation in the old designs. Now they areE >basically all fairly narrow rectangular structures along the top and D >bottom of the bill, and even narrower patterns along the sides. TheC >fronts look more alike than they used to, other than the portrait.   G I think this was an intentional change.  The scroll work was originally G intended to foil forgers who hand-engraved their own plates.   That was D the common method (and a fairly serious problem) in the early days. J Printers and scanners have gotten good enough to duplicate these features;H a forged note could easily be as close to "perfect" as the variations inI the regular printing process.  Since the scrollwork distracts the eye and J brain away from the portrait, removing it actually makes it easier to spot fake notes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:15:23 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)+ Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2805022315230001@11cust207.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  5 In article <3CF3D9C3.9BE12BA9@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >Carl Perkins wrote:F >> For example, starting in 1993 all bills except the $1 bill have hadI >> microprinting. The "line" around the portrait looks slightly ragged on K >> these because, if you look cloesely enough, it is actually microprinting 4 >> which says "United States of America" repeatedly. > K >The $100 dollar bill was revamped in 1995, put into circulation late 1995. N >That was the first one with the embedded strip and microfine printing, largerE >portrait etc. I was at a presentation made by the folks in charge of O >counterfieting in the USA (hint Washington DC) in September 1995 where the new J >bills were explained to bankers and the process of replacing the old ones also explained.   C The series of 1990 $100 notes introduced the security strip and the C microprinting around the portrait.  The magnetic ink was introduced F earlier; I don't know the exact series.  AFAIK, the treasury has never( officially acknowleged the magnetic ink.  J The treasury has had publicity campaigns for all the currency changes overD the years.  I didn't notice the 1995 publicity being much different,A except that the media was somewhat more likely to carry the news.   I >There was also recognized the need to train as many people as possible , 6 >especially shopkeepers on detecting counterfiet ones.  J They "public awareness" effort has continued at about the same level sinceG the 1860's.  Perhaps more people noticed the available information when = the radical changes were made in the appearance of the notes.   H The most common device I see used is an "indicator pen" that a clerk canJ use to mark a note.  Supposedly the mark is a different color if the paperJ is wrong.  I've noticed the typical minimum-wage clerk will swipe a $20 orH larger note with the pen, _unless_ it already has a mark from a previousJ clerk.  Since a credible mark would be easier to copy than the rest of the note, it seems of little use.   C AFAIK, the pens are 3rd-party devices that are promoted without the I support of the treasury.  The might not even work.  The chemists who know D about the real paper and ink aren't sharing their knowledge with the companies that sell the pens.   I The same clerks rarely hold a note up to the light to check the strip and I watermark, pass it under a UV lamp, or even look at it carefully.  Any of < these methods would be more reliable than the indicator pen.  H In the 1800's, many merchants spent non-trivial money buying devices andC services to help them spot bad notes.  The fraction of bad notes in 2 circulation then utterly dwarfed the current rate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:51:28 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)+ Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2805022251280001@11cust207.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  5 In article <3CF2DEA3.25333AB2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   K >> The old-style notes were already very secure; counting machines in major 7 >> banks catch the counterfeits the first time through.  > M >They were not secure. They lacked all the modern printing security measures. O >And some of the official $100 printing plates had been "acquired" by a foreign H >country that only recently got removed from the "terrorist black list".  F Source for these claims?  I've not seen any reports of plates escaping* from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing.  O >Furthermore, modern colour photocopiers/scanners were getting to a point where K >they had sufficient precision to reproduce the old bills accurately enough " >provided you had the right paper.  I Scanners and printers have been good enough for a couple of decades.  The I only recent change is that they are more affordable, and more widespread.   F The paper is virtually unobtainable.  I have not seen any reports thatI anyone has succeeded in duplicating it.  Simply possessing the paper is a H felony.  (Of course, a foreign power would not care.)  Similarly for theC ink.  To make a credible fake, you need both the paper and the ink.   G Unless the paper is very close to the right stuff, it will feel wrong.  G Anyone who handles U.S. notes regularly would notice something wrong as I soon as they touch the notes, at least if they are paying attention.  The C ink texture is also quite different between an intaglio print and a 
 photocopy.  C The colored fibers in the paper can be _drawn_ by a very good color B printer, but they are quite obviously just sitting on the surface.  G >> Foreign banks had the (false) idea that U.S. money was easy to fake.  > O >It was very easy to fake. That is why foreign banks refused to handle the $100 A >bills which one country was printing by the ton to finance their  terrorist activities.   2 Which country?  Where were they passing the notes?  L >> Because the anti-counterfeit devices in U.S. money are different from theH >> ones typically used in Europe, some bank tellers probably thought the >> money was easy to copy. > O >The USA currency lacked modern anti counterfeit devices such as large picture, J >microfine printing, embedded "device" (the USA chose a metal band) and of: >course better colours. (that one hasn't been solved yet).  N Microfine printing was already in use before the recent redesign of the notes.  G The embedded device is not metal, it never has been.  It's some kind of  plastic, with secret additives.   J The studies done by the treasury department have not indicated that colorsE are actually much help, at least when viewed by the human eye.  Fancy C colors drive the cost of the notes up with little or no measureable F benefit.  As printers get better, colors will be ever easier to fake. J Some possible inks also tend to fail the durability tests.  Almost any inkH tends to fade with time and use, so worn notes would look "wrong" if you  considered the colors important.  1 >>  A lot of FUD accumulated about bad U.S. notes J >> over the years.  The statistics of bad notes found in circulation never >> supported the FUD.  > O >The statistics supported it. The counterfiet ones were stopped "at the border" K >and not in circulation in the USA but were in wide circulation outside the L >USA. Such bills stayed in circulation until one bank wanted to send them toM >the US Treasury, at which point the USA would detect it as a counterfeit and N >the bank would lose the value of the money. That is why banks outside the USAD >started to refuse those bills because they feared losing its value.  I Well, I have not seen any statistics to support this, and I have looked.   I've only seen FUD.   K >And because foreign banks started to stop accepting US currency, the later G >risked losing is "world currency" status. This is why in 1995, the USA 1 >government started to introduce a new $100 bill.  >  > L >> The current notes have features designed to make it easier for a _person_ >> to spot a bad note.   >  >But the previious ones didn't.   D The microprinting was already there, as was the hold-up-to-the lightG security strip.  The redesign made the portrait larger and moved it off @ center to make it less susceptible to damage from folding.  MoreJ microprinting was added.  Watermarks were added, and some of the notes gotI color-shifting ink.  All of the previous published security features were 	 retained.   G It is widely assumed that there are some secrete security features that H the treasury doesn't talk about.  I've heard rumors of some, but haven't been able to check them.  D >> But the primary protection still comes from automated machinery.  > M >No. If the merchant cannot determine a fake before accepting a bill, he will J >not accept any of those bills otherwise he will be stuck with a worthlessJ >piece of paper when he deposits it at the bank who will refuse that bill.  E As I watch domestic merchants "examine" notes to verify that they are G genuine, it is very obvious that most of them don't have a clue what to D look for.  Bad bills are so rare that most don't bother to learn.  IG wonder if merchants and bank tellers overseas know any better.  The FUD : I've seen in the press indicates that they probably don't.  I This is why I think the primary security is from the machines.  Bad notes H are quickly found, and usually traced back to the source.  Once the perpG is in jail, he can't make any more bad notes.  That's they way it works E within the U.S.  --  and it does work.  It's obviously less effective G overseas.  Still, notes cross the border easily, and very few bad notes  are found coming in.  H With very rare exceptions, every report complaining about the insecurityA of U.S. notes fails to mention any of the long-available security J features.  This doesn't make me very confident that the reports are coming from knowledgeable sources.   L >Not necessarily. If you are a non-USA bank with lots of old USA bank notes,M >you would rather get rid of them on the market to sent to other banks rather D >than send them back to the USA and risk losing much money because a8 >non-trivial percentage will turn out to be counterfiet.  F If the banks won't accept them, they won't be able to hand them out to their customers for very long.    F I agree the recent redesign made the notes a little more secure, but I@ can't find any evidence that there was much of a problem before.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:39:22 GMT  From: lbohan@spamless..dbc.com+ Subject: ALPHAPC164, 8x128MB SIMMS, success 8 Message-ID: <96n7fu0d11p1aq3jtmtgq0dn141s1n2gc8@4ax.com>  D (this posting mostly for benefit of folks searching USEnet archives)  + Just recently, I had good sucess getting a    Digital AlphaPC164 based system - (a PC164 exactly, not a PC164LX, nor PC164SX) 1 to recognize a gig of memory, via 8 128 MB SIMMS  ) (72pin fast-page, true parity, etc. etc).   < Other folks folks had reported similar results a while back,6 (Terry Kennedy?), but I thought I'd post this, to add  another data point.   0 The PC164 manual suggests that 512MB is the max.  7 It wasn't clear to me this was a hard limit due to the g3 the memory controller, or just the likely maximium n, that was tested/qualified,  circa 1996-1997.    ; System Type  Digital AlphaPC 164 500 MHz  Primary CPU ID 00e> Cycle Time    2.0 nsec (500 MHz)      Pagesize       8192 Byte Memory Configuration:uD Cluster    PFN Start    PFN Count         Range (MByte)        UsageF  #00             0          192         0.0 MB -     1.5 MB    ConsoleF  #01           192       130763         1.5 MB -  1023.0 MB    System F  #02        130955          117      1023.0 MB -  1024.0 MB    Console   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:18:41 GMTh1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)eD Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...< Message-ID: <BCRI8.125135$9F5.7197861@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  ) Bob Ceculski (bob@instantwhip.com) wrote:D. : Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote in message 8 : news:<OF71BF52E2.D90AA93B-ON00256BC2.0042412B@btyp>...I : > Probably fairly futile advertising the fact here, but isn't that what  : > 'networking' is all about? : >  : > ;^D  : > . : > Anyway, unemployed from the end of June... : > K : > Someone said to me last night 'there's always a light at the end of the 8 : > tunnel', thing is, I can't find the tunnel entrance. : > : : > Still, every silver lining has a cloud and all that... : > 
 : > Cheers : >  : > Steve Sl : >  : @ : maybe it's time for you and other unemployed vms lovers to get= : out of England!  After all, if a vms job came up in anotherf> : decent country (i.e. US), I would grab it in a heartbeat ... :MH Just don't look for many VMS or any IT-related jobs in the Houston area.H I've seen some VMS jobs in Saudi Arabia at www.lesliecorp.com, a HoustonJ placement firm (no relation), but they required prior military experience.  G CNN had a report last week about summer jobs for high school kids beinguE few and far between, because the jobs had been taken by college kids,? and adults.z  H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email-   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 15:38:03 -0700, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin)? Subject: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?s= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0205281438.6be43b68@posting.google.com>n  E Hello all. I recently bought a DECserver 90TL to replace my DECserversF 700 due to the amount of power used and heat generated by the 700. TheD 700 had DB25's while the 90TL has 8 pin telco-style (RJ12?) ports. IF used to use these all the time with BN27G cables and H8585-?? adaptersB but now I am having trouble finding a reasonably priced source forD these. The going rate for the adapters at the websites I've found soE far is around $10, which would put the cost at $80, not including theU7 cables. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced source?f   Thanks in advance.   Bill McLaughlin    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:45:06 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>C Subject: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?r4 Message-ID: <1020528191700.359B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On 28 May 2002, Bill McLaughlin wrote:  G > Hello all. I recently bought a DECserver 90TL to replace my DECserverAH > 700 due to the amount of power used and heat generated by the 700. TheF > 700 had DB25's while the 90TL has 8 pin telco-style (RJ12?) ports. IH > used to use these all the time with BN27G cables and H8585-?? adaptersD > but now I am having trouble finding a reasonably priced source forF > these. The going rate for the adapters at the websites I've found soG > far is around $10, which would put the cost at $80, not including ther9 > cables. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced source?e >  > Thanks in advance. >  > Bill McLaughlini  > I take it you want to connect your existing DB25 cables to the RJ45 (?) jacks on the DS90TL?t  E I've seen, at places like U-DO-IT electronics in Needham MA (just offtB Rt. 128), and maybe at MicroCenter, connect-it-yourself RJ-to-DB25B adapters.  They consist of a shell, an 8-pin RJ jack prewired to 8; pins, and an empty DB25 plug.  You insert the 8 pins in thet@ appropriate holes in the DB25 plug and snap on the shell to make@ whatever adapter you need.  You would then plug this into the RJ? jacks on the DS90TL using a 8-wire RJ cable.  I think any shorte? cat5 ethernet cable would work.  (You would wire up the adapter @ differently depending on if you got straight-through, cross-over= or Telco-style USOC cables.)  I think the adapters cost abouta@ $5 each, and I think you can get cheap ethernet patch cables for about $3.  Not much cheaper.  B You could also get a bunch of DB25M (I think that's what you need)= connectors and 4 short CAT5 ethernet cables (with all 8 wires2: connected.)  Cut each Cat 5 cable in half, split out the 8@ individual wires and solder to the DB25M.  Cheap except for your= time.  4 cables * $3 + 8 DB25M's, about $1 each = $20 for allo< 8 ports.  If you want it to look nice, you can put shells on0 the connectors.  I think they are about $1 each.  = Helpful to have a break-out box to check your wiring and teste? swapping around connections after you make the 1st one, in caseo you mess it up!n  < A good RJ crimper plus dies is fairly expensive, but you can: use it to make or fix phone cords, handset cords, ethernet cables, MMJ cables, etc.  = If cheap but ugly is an option, you can get some cat5 cables,a= chop in half, split out the wires, strip them.  Then chop then< DB25F connectors off the ends of your existing wiring, split: out and strip the wires from the cable, twist together the> wires from the new cable to the wires from the existing cable,@ cover with electrical tape.  This should work okay for low-speed; RS232 (9.6Kb) if the cables aren't stressed or kicked.  You-> could solder the joints for more secure connections and better> conductivity.  One advantage to the twist method is it is easy; to rearrange if you make a mistake.  (E.G. you discover you3 have swapped TD and RD.)   -- . John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:43:20 GMTr; From: "Atlant G. Schmidt" <Atlant.Schmidt@YouKnowWhere.com>hC Subject: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?a0 Message-ID: <3CF42523.236A478F@YouKnowWhere.com>   Bill McLaughlin wrote:  G > Hello all. I recently bought a DECserver 90TL to replace my DECserver$H > 700 due to the amount of power used and heat generated by the 700. TheF > 700 had DB25's while the 90TL has 8 pin telco-style (RJ12?) ports. IH > used to use these all the time with BN27G cables and H8585-?? adaptersD > but now I am having trouble finding a reasonably priced source forF > these. The going rate for the adapters at the websites I've found soG > far is around $10, which would put the cost at $80, not including ther9 > cables. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced source?e  : Does the 90TL really use RJ45 connectors (like 10baseT) or6 does it use the evil DEC "MMJ" (Modified Modular Jack)7 connectors with the locking tab offset from the center?h  8 In either case, you can probably buy all your connectors8 from Allied Electronics, Newark Electronics, or Digikey.  9 RJ45 crimpers are easy to come by; nowadays, you can event6 find them at Home Depot! But MMJ crimpers may be a bit< harder to find. Contact East, Jensen,  or other tool jobbers) should have them, but they may be pricey."   Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:32:43 GMTP1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n* Subject: Re: Building csws 1.2 from source' Message-ID: <3CF44142.8C0ABD72@fsi.net>m   James Gessling wrote:a > L > I'll answer my own question here, and pose another.  The compiling problem > wasnL > solved by upgrade the C compiler to 6.5, I was way behind on this version. > 3 > Now my question is:  How to deal with lines like:  >  > #include <ucx$inetdef.h> > M > Whan I'm running multinet.  I know the csws works fine with Multinet, causeeL > I run it that way.  But how to build it with hardcoded ucx stuff in there. >  > Any ideas?  Jimu  F I'll go ya one better: how to build it so it's entirely independent ofE whose stack underlies! Let the IP stack be totally transparent to theo program(s)!s   Any thoughts out there?c   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:44:13 -0500nC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>e* Subject: Re: Building csws 1.2 from sourceH Message-ID: <craig.berry-F670C6.21441328052002@news.directvinternet.com>  4 In article <ad06kb$t5940$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>,.  "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote:  L > I'll answer my own question here, and pose another.  The compiling problem > was5L > solved by upgrade the C compiler to 6.5, I was way behind on this version. > 3 > Now my question is:  How to deal with lines like:c >  > #include <ucx$inetdef.h> > M > Whan I'm running multinet.  I know the csws works fine with Multinet, causetL > I run it that way.  But how to build it with hardcoded ucx stuff in there.    D The UCX / TCP/IP Services headers will be just fine in most cases.  G There may be a few incompatibilities which I think result from BSD 4.3 lD vs. 4.4 socket structures.  One I happened to have stumbled upon is H that gethostbyaddr() returns an incorrect address length if you use the C Compaq headers with Multinet 4.3.  It returns the right host name, nA though, which is in many cases all you care about.  Multinet 4.4 tE release notes say something about having versions of gethostbyaddr() hH and family that don't require modifications for software "like Mozilla" + which might very well include CSWS as well.   G There are indications in the Multinet list archives at www.process.com iG that the headers supplied with Multinet are not actively maintained or tH considered up-to-date with modern compiler versions, so using the stuff A in MULTINET_ROOT:[INCLUDE...] is probably not a good alternative e7 (thanks to Alan Winston for making me aware of this).  e  ? Having said all this I can't think of any good reason the CSWS o engineers would say    #include <ucx$inetdef.h>   rather than simply   #include <inetdef.h>  ? unless there is a ucx$inetdef.h included with the CSWS sources.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:45:56 -0500eC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>b* Subject: Re: Building csws 1.2 from sourceH Message-ID: <craig.berry-1CE888.21455628052002@news.directvinternet.com>  ' In article <3CF44142.8C0ABD72@fsi.net>,k3  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:0   > James Gessling wrote:yF Whan I'm running multinet.  I know the csws works fine with Multinet,  causenN > > I run it that way.  But how to build it with hardcoded ucx stuff in there. > >  > > Any ideas?  Jimr > H > I'll go ya one better: how to build it so it's entirely independent ofG > whose stack underlies! Let the IP stack be totally transparent to the 
 > program(s)!t  ; It already is 99% of the time.  The 1% can get interesting.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:56:25 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g* Subject: Re: Building csws 1.2 from source' Message-ID: <3CF446CF.8E644E95@fsi.net>s   "Craig A. Berry" wrote:e > ) > In article <3CF44142.8C0ABD72@fsi.net>,d5 >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  >  > > James Gessling wrote: G > Whan I'm running multinet.  I know the csws works fine with Multinet,o > causeeP > > > I run it that way.  But how to build it with hardcoded ucx stuff in there. > > >r > > > Any ideas?  Jima > >tJ > > I'll go ya one better: how to build it so it's entirely independent ofI > > whose stack underlies! Let the IP stack be totally transparent to the  > > program(s)!d > = > It already is 99% of the time.  The 1% can get interesting.S   That's why I said, "totally".    -- i David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 03:03:56 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")* Subject: Re: Building csws 1.2 from source8 Message-ID: <00A0EA0B.42D87E7F@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  [ In article <3CF44142.8C0ABD72@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:t >James Gessling wrote: >> dM >> I'll answer my own question here, and pose another.  The compiling problem  >> wasM >> solved by upgrade the C compiler to 6.5, I was way behind on this version.c >> g4 >> Now my question is:  How to deal with lines like: >> " >> #include <ucx$inetdef.h>  >> SN >> Whan I'm running multinet.  I know the csws works fine with Multinet, causeM >> I run it that way.  But how to build it with hardcoded ucx stuff in there.n >>   >> Any ideas?  Jim    L Multinet provides a UCX$INETDEF.H, so you can either tell "C" to look in theD appropriate directory for it (see immediately below) or copy it into SYS$LIBRARY.  ? Directory MULTINET_ROOT:[000000.SYSCOMMON.MULTINET.INCLUDE.VMS]i  L UCX$INETDEF.H;1           98/108       5-JUL-2000 19:38:48.83  (RWD,RWD,R,R)     (And David Dachtera wrote)  G >I'll go ya one better: how to build it so it's entirely independent ofaF >whose stack underlies! Let the IP stack be totally transparent to the >program(s)! >h >Any thoughts out there?  K The mechanism VMS provides for doing that is to write to the UCX-compatiblerM driver provided by all the supported stacks (Multinet, TCPware, and of courserJ TCP/IP itself).  Not surprisingly, this is what including "ucx$inetdef.h" 	 supports.   H (Another way to do this would have been to add the NETLIB layer between M CSWS and the IP stack, but this would have required changing all the IP callstK to use the Netlib calls, and, now that there are only three living stacks, hI this doesn't buy you much.  [NETLIB was a wonderful thing to have if you IH wanted to be able to run on Wollongong, CMU, UCX, Multinet, and TCPware;G its value has decreased as the number of maintained stacks decreases.])h   -- Alanh    O ===============================================================================t0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056SM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210eO ===============================================================================v   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 17:50:57 -0700+ From: strice2002@earthlink.net (Steve Rice)a1 Subject: CDE front panel on more than one display = Message-ID: <f74d54ad.0205281650.17564ddf@posting.google.com>s  F I am running CDE on Alpha OpenVMS 7.3 with 2 monitors.  Is there a wayE to run the CDE front panel on both monitors?  I know this can be done  on a machine running Solaris.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:25:39 -0000p- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)f- Subject: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Datee7 Message-ID: <921CBD74Fwarrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>    Hi,   J In the "Forced Migration to HPUX" and many other threads, there's endless L debate regarding Compaq's (now HP's) committment to OpenVMS.  No one trusts K the "roadmap" because as we've seen, roadmaps are essentially useless as a mD binding legal document.  So are "committments" (Alphacide). Another I annoying phrase without legal substance is "plan of record", which we've o@ seen used in OpenVMS-related comments from senior CPQ officials.  I Now I've a suggestion for anyone who cares to listen:  Put an expiration LK date on these documents.  Kinda like Intel declaring an "inflection point" fJ in 2005 - we know the roadmap is "good" till then - but then all bets are  off.  H I'd much rather have a roadmap that I knew was good until (for example) L June 25, 2001, than an open-ended roadmap that can be changed the day after = I release a purchase order for a product that just got EOL'd.y  D This wouldn't change the fact that products get EOL'd, but it would J certainly make it less surprising and less embarrassing for the customers D of the product.  It may also lend some sadly-lacking credibility to $ roadmaps and those who proffer them.   ws --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:54:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-1 Subject: Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date2, Message-ID: <3CF3FC9C.9AF24B8D@videotron.ca>   Warren Spencer wrote:cJ > Now I've a suggestion for anyone who cares to listen:  Put an expirationL > date on these documents.  Kinda like Intel declaring an "inflection point"K > in 2005 - we know the roadmap is "good" till then - but then all bets are1 > off.  	 I concur.5  L So far, all we can expect is that HP will continue to support products for 5L years after they have been EOLed and that the operating system on Alpha will5 continue to receive improvements until at least 2006.o  N Nothing about layered products. And considering that HP isn't porting All-in-1I to IA64, its statements that it is porting all layered products is false.e  K Does Digital/Compaq/HP have a list of all the VMS layered products that are H still being developped and those that are still being maintained but not improved (aka: FMS) ?a  N Having such a list with mininum development commitments for each product would@ go a long way towards getting an idea where customers should go.  M On the other hand, the uncertainty with regards to the future of the productssI that run on VMS may be a desired effect from HP since it will be one moreo9 incentive for customers to rethink their strategy on VMS.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:55:00 GMTj( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>1 Subject: Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date(+ Message-ID: <3CF4273B.70BF624C@pacbell.net>l   JF Mezei wrote:r >  > Warren Spencer wrote: L > > Now I've a suggestion for anyone who cares to listen:  Put an expirationN > > date on these documents.  Kinda like Intel declaring an "inflection point"M > > in 2005 - we know the roadmap is "good" till then - but then all bets arec > > off. >  > I concur.l > N > So far, all we can expect is that HP will continue to support products for 5N > years after they have been EOLed and that the operating system on Alpha will7 > continue to receive improvements until at least 2006.i > P > Nothing about layered products. And considering that HP isn't porting All-in-1K > to IA64, its statements that it is porting all layered products is false.t > M > Does Digital/Compaq/HP have a list of all the VMS layered products that are J > still being developped and those that are still being maintained but not > improved (aka: FMS) ?i > P > Having such a list with mininum development commitments for each product wouldB > go a long way towards getting an idea where customers should go. > O > On the other hand, the uncertainty with regards to the future of the products K > that run on VMS may be a desired effect from HP since it will be one moreC; > incentive for customers to rethink their strategy on VMS.   K Agree. And when any product is no longer supported by it's manufacturer, itTH should be Open Sourced, so those who are committed to it can maintain it themselves if they like. --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Franciscoo   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:13:55 GMTo) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)t; Subject: Re: CSWS: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?n/ Message-ID: <3cf41c32.4133383@news.wcc.govt.nz>i  8 On Tue, 28 May 2002 13:19:45 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:5  ? >After downloading CSWS V1.2 from the official web site, I get c >n# >   CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI;1) >nA >and not, as advertised, CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI-DCX-AXPEXET >  >It looks like this: >pB >CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI;1           File ID:  (121593,50,0)5 >Size:        14390/14391      Owner:    [group,user]a# >Created:   28-MAY-2002 13:04:51.13r' >Revised:   28-MAY-2002 13:05:00.81 (4)h >Expires:   <None specified>  >Backup:    <No backup recorded> >Effective: <None specified> >Recording: <None specified> >File organization:  Sequentiall >Shelved state:      Onlinea! >Caching attribute:  WritethroughsI >File attributes:    Allocation: 14391, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0y: >                    No version limit, Contiguous best try= >Record format:      Stream, maximum 0 bytes, longest 0 bytesa5 >Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage controlt >RMS attributes:     None  >Journaling enabled: None > >File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World: >Client attributes:  Archive > % >Total of 1 file, 14390/14391 blocks.  >e >PRODUCT INSTALL says: >.K >%PCSI-E-READERR, error reading DEVICE:[DIR]CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI;1k$ >-DDIS-E-TNF, invalid element syntax# >%PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failediN >%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition >o. >I suspect that the file attributes are wrong. >i >I did s >,' >set file/att=(lrl:8192,rfm:fix) *.pcsi  >dH >which makes it look like other PCSI files (I think) are OK.  I get the  >same error though.  > & >Do I have the wrong SET FILE command? > E >Is there a way to download the file in the proper format and/or the f >self-extracting thingy? > B >A direct download isn't possible; I downloaded it by clicking theF >Download Now button from Netscape Navigator running on a PC and savedG >the file on an ODS-5 disk on a VMS machine connected over pathworks.  bA >That is, now FTP in ASCII mode or other obvious goofs at my end.o >sH >Biting the bullet, I tried Internet Explorer.  I get the same DIR/FULL A >output except that the file is named CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.;1d >o  C I just downloaded the file and then Ran it which produced the .PCSIh file which I then installed.A Hauled down via IE onto a drive mapped via Pathworks to my PC. So0 almost directly to a VMS disk!  ) I had no need to set any file attributes.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:51:12 GMTg1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>M; Subject: Re: CSWS: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?r' Message-ID: <3CF44597.1E83C9B6@fsi.net>    Phillip Helbig wrote:e > ? > After downloading CSWS V1.2 from the official web site, I get  > $ >    CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI;1 > B > and not, as advertised, CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI-DCX-AXPEXE  B Yeah - this is a known WhineBloze problem. You have to fix this atA download time. Otherwise, it drops the tail end of the extension.    -- a David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 18:47:24 GMTD0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>5 Subject: Re: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?a2 Message-ID: <0hQI8.29$Jk3.824382@news.cpqcorp.net>  K All the files that say they are .pcsi-dcx-axpexe etc are EXECUTABLES. There < shouldn't be any 'save sets' or PCSI (product install) filesI since HTTP and FTP protocals mung the file attributes and product install 3 and backup save sets depend on the file attributes.y  L The image activator doesn't it will 'run' just about anything in any format.I SO first try to RUN the downloaded files (expect .zip files). That shouldiE cause whatever compression software was used to 'uncompress' the true E image/product/saveset. Most of the files are compressed with FTSO ande the compress option.  F Different windows with different browsers with different user settingsG sometimes (often) mung the file extension. Don't believe the extensions I unless they are '3' letters long (exe, zip, txt) we even have a few 'com' : files that are dcl procedures rather than dos executables.  ( so again .. when in doubt try RUN first.   -warreni   --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingG Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comuL 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875 5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself-,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------      F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KI9G8OEN0Y96VU4K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...a? > After downloading CSWS V1.2 from the official web site, I getg >j$ >    CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI;1 >eB > and not, as advertised, CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI-DCX-AXPEXE >5 > It looks like this:h > C > CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI;1           File ID:  (121593,50,0)t6 > Size:        14390/14391      Owner:    [group,user]$ > Created:   28-MAY-2002 13:04:51.13( > Revised:   28-MAY-2002 13:05:00.81 (4) > Expires:   <None specified>t! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>h > Effective: <None specified>  > Recording: <None specified>d  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      Online" > Caching attribute:  WritethroughJ > File attributes:    Allocation: 14391, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0; >                     No version limit, Contiguous best tryg> > Record format:      Stream, maximum 0 bytes, longest 0 bytes6 > Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None? > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:t > Client attributes:  Archive  > & > Total of 1 file, 14390/14391 blocks. >w > PRODUCT INSTALL says:  > L > %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading DEVICE:[DIR]CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI;1% > -DDIS-E-TNF, invalid element syntax $ > %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedE > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable errorL	 condition[ >L/ > I suspect that the file attributes are wrong.a >  > I didi >o( > set file/att=(lrl:8192,rfm:fix) *.pcsi >sH > which makes it look like other PCSI files (I think) are OK.  I get the > same error though. >t' > Do I have the wrong SET FILE command?< >tE > Is there a way to download the file in the proper format and/or thes > self-extracting thingy?- >-C > A direct download isn't possible; I downloaded it by clicking the"G > Download Now button from Netscape Navigator running on a PC and savedsF > the file on an ODS-5 disk on a VMS machine connected over pathworks.B > That is, now FTP in ASCII mode or other obvious goofs at my end. > H > Biting the bullet, I tried Internet Explorer.  I get the same DIR/FULLB > output except that the file is named CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.;1 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:29:53 +0200f) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> 5 Subject: Re: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?l/ Message-ID: <3CF3DAB1.5090904@xs4all.nospam.nl>e   warren sander wrote:M > All the files that say they are .pcsi-dcx-axpexe etc are EXECUTABLES. Thereg> > shouldn't be any 'save sets' or PCSI (product install) filesK > since HTTP and FTP protocals mung the file attributes and product installg5 > and backup save sets depend on the file attributes.D > N > The image activator doesn't it will 'run' just about anything in any format.K > SO first try to RUN the downloaded files (expect .zip files). That should G > cause whatever compression software was used to 'uncompress' the trueeG > image/product/saveset. Most of the files are compressed with FTSO and  > the compress option. > H > Different windows with different browsers with different user settingsI > sometimes (often) mung the file extension. Don't believe the extensionstK > unless they are '3' letters long (exe, zip, txt) we even have a few 'com')< > files that are dcl procedures rather than dos executables. > * > so again .. when in doubt try RUN first.  H I agree, with one exception. Try RUN in a totally harmless environment, B i.e. a user without ANY privileges. There is no reason to suspect I anything coming from the services from Compaq, but the executables don't r/ require any privileges, so don't give them any.   	 Bart ZornC   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 13:02:39 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) 6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning3 Message-ID: <N6A6BHnC6Dd4@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3CEB639F.DC707543@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Nic Clews wrote: > I >> But this is the point. VMS can be made as reliable as you want it, butm+ >> it takes skill and knowledge to set up.   > O > Out of curiosity, couldn't the same be said of just about any system ? If yousO > are serious, and you know about a sustems capabilities and limitations, can'tt" > you design it to work reliably ?  H The same can be _SAID_ about any system.  MonopolySoft has been _SAYING_G for years that they have a stable OS, but in practice the truth is muchlH different.  The salient point is that VMS has _PROVEN_ over decades that it is a more stable OS.  V  H Doesn't matter if you're driving a Porsche or a Kia, you can still driveG it into a tree if you're an idiot.  In the long run I'd bet the Porscheo7 would provide the better high-speed driving experience.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 18:10:38 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)r6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning7 Message-ID: <921C9C353warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>T  C andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com (Andrew Harrison SUNUK  ; Consultancy) wrote in <abu2u2$o5f$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>:t  
 -- snip --  > >You can choose to believe what you want but as you know there> >is a longish snagging list with 7.3 and my customer fell foul	 >of that.l    - Anyone got a pointer to the "snagging list" ?,  J And which part of "test before you deploy" didn't the client understand?  J Is the client upgrading their Upgrade Procedures too?  Where was the fall- back plan?    G None of these is an OS-specific issue - but it does underline the read- D fire-aim motto of the inexperienced.  They shoulda had an Enterpise K Architect on hand to guide them through the choppy waters of the upgrade.  sL They could also use one for a root-cause analysis on this outage.  Since no I operating system can guarantee 100% uptime, the mad swapping of hardware =( and OS's is likely to accomplish little.   ws -- =   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 18:10:51 GMT14 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning0 Message-ID: <3CF3C6D8.E8E68E63@blueyonder.co.uk>   Marty Kuhrt wrote: > ^ > In article <3CEB639F.DC707543@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > Nic Clews wrote: > >oK > >> But this is the point. VMS can be made as reliable as you want it, but-, > >> it takes skill and knowledge to set up. > > Q > > Out of curiosity, couldn't the same be said of just about any system ? If you Q > > are serious, and you know about a sustems capabilities and limitations, can'tr$ > > you design it to work reliably ? > J > The same can be _SAID_ about any system.  MonopolySoft has been _SAYING_I > for years that they have a stable OS, but in practice the truth is much J > different.  The salient point is that VMS has _PROVEN_ over decades that > it is a more stable OS.s > J > Doesn't matter if you're driving a Porsche or a Kia, you can still driveI > it into a tree if you're an idiot.  In the long run I'd bet the Porschek9 > would provide the better high-speed driving experience.   I I can testify that non-optimally setup systems can certainly be made frompH VMS. Once the bad working practices become ingrained, it is difficult to1 change them, except by switching off the systems.t  F One thing you certainly don't want to skimp on is VMS talent in a new  VMS installation (hint hint).a   regards, -- s tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 14:56:40 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning3 Message-ID: <StHWvUrWVOQq@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  g In article <921C9C353warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>, wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) writes:cE > andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com (Andrew Harrison SUNUK 2= > Consultancy) wrote in <abu2u2$o5f$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>:e >  > -- snip -- > ? >>You can choose to believe what you want but as you know therei? >>is a longish snagging list with 7.3 and my customer fell foulo
 >>of that. >  > / > Anyone got a pointer to the "snagging list" ?  > L > And which part of "test before you deploy" didn't the client understand?  L > Is the client upgrading their Upgrade Procedures too?  Where was the fall- > back plan?   > I > None of these is an OS-specific issue - but it does underline the read-cF > fire-aim motto of the inexperienced.  They shoulda had an Enterpise M > Architect on hand to guide them through the choppy waters of the upgrade.  PN > They could also use one for a root-cause analysis on this outage.  Since no K > operating system can guarantee 100% uptime, the mad swapping of hardware aJ                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^* > and OS's is likely to accomplish little.)   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, >   @ 	No.  What it accomplishes is a ready scapegoat.  I have seen it? 	before and it is happening elsewhere.  If you have a seriously C 	mismanaged system, from a management perspective it is much easier-A 	(and job saving) to point a finger at the badly managed platformm@ 	and replace it wholesale.  The person managing said platform is9 	shuffled off to less damaging work or let go altogether.e  F 	What is *MUCH* less palatable is to point a finger at a badly managedF 	system and get much better system management in place.  What happened! 	or how did things get bad/fixed?t  4 			1)  Senior management dropped the ball but is now 				picking it up.   					ORe  : 			2)  Senior management shuffle and now things get better2 				as lower level management gets fixed/replaced * 				and system(s) are much better managed.  E 	I've seen examples of just that also, number 2) and 1).  With 1) thetE 	question is, "how did that person get hired in the first place?"  IneC 	other words, badly managed system implies a bad hire (most of the ,H 	time).  In fairness, 1) often occurs when good system management moves G 	on and the new hire was/is a bad choice.  Hey, the resume looked good.r  F 	But to claim that the system/os combination is the problem is an easyD 	fix.  New hardware/os combo comes in and things are working.  "See,E 	I told you it was a problem with the platform!"  Of course, the fact C 	that dozens of others are running the same hardware/os/applicationt> 	mix successfully... well, they don't and won't hear for that!     					Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:13:37 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning( Message-ID: <3CF45571.5963D0A3@mist.com>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:w >  > GreyCloud wrote: > = > > That is a funny image at that.  Of course the old weaponsa> > > systems used a covered red switch that said "Battle Short"= > > on a Sperry Univac system.  It'll try to keep going untilm' > > the weapon(s) are fired during war.u > 5 > (I can't tell from your reply whether you know this 5 > or not, so if I'm telling you something you alreadyT$ > knew, please accept my apologies.) > 3 > "Battle Short" switches are common devices on alle2 > sorts of military equipment. The imlplication of2 > throwing the "Battle Sort" switch is to tell the1 > equipment, "Boys, we're in a shootin' war!" andS3 > that the equipment should now be ready to perform:4 > its job as long as possible, even to the extent of6 > sacrificing itself as a result. "Battle Short" often+ > does things like disable thermal shutdown3/ > mechanisms, low coolant alarms, over-voltage/4/ > under-voltage detection, and the like. It may 7 > disable or change circuit breaker or fuse thresholds,g2 > and so on. In other words, it puts the equipment# > into "run till you fry/die" mode.i >   6 Thank you... I couldn't have said it better.  Spot on! :-)19 From another newsgroup, we get a lot of Microsofties thatN< think win2k can run a ship.  But it isn't really a practical< thing to do as ships do occasionaly catch fire in the engine4 rooms and needs a highly trained firewatch crew.  No; computer system is going to be able to put out those fires,e; especially on the large aircraft carriers where its a dailyc occurrence.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:20:03 +0100E$ From: "issinoho" <iain@issinoho.com> Subject: Re: Hobbyist licences: Message-ID: <3cf3d8f4_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>   DOH!  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messager' news:0033000065782001000002L012*@MHS...t  : There are three choices in the LICENSE TYPE dropdown menu:   OpenVMS VAX9
 OpenVMS Alphas Layered Products   Choose the last option.f   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETL# Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 1:01 PMwB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: Hobbyist licences    8 I know this is going to be a dumb, dumb question, but...  E The hobbyist licence only includes VMS itself, how do I get a licensen1 for the other products on the CD, such as DEC C?=w   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:12:44 GMTd From: "Nuggs" <nuggs@nuggs.com>eB Subject: Holy S__T! Was:JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???= Message-ID: <wOWI8.154158$xS2.12579094@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>w   Good Night Now!d  ; "Fuck Off Miguel" <miguel.is.a@nigger.com> wrote in messagel> news:59041fac9a01929c2124038133e71208@remailer.segfault.net...% > mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz) wrote:! > * > >Nomen Nescio  <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:C > >> Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clockM
 > >> nonstop.d > >>3 > >> Did you just get out of prison or something???d > >aE > >What is up with the pre-school insults in this newsgroup? Where don > >people like that come from? > > E > >JF has a unique personality, but he's always treated everyone with  > >consideration and dignity.1 > > 	 > >miguela >d: > Well isn't that nice, one troll sticking up for another. >iF > Hey grungeboy, why don't you fuck off.  Don't you have a Black Power > meeting to go to?t >t >  >  >t >e >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:05:42 -0400/- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: HP Storageworks, Message-ID: <3CF46FA0.5DBF5569@videotron.ca>  - Saw a TV ad on CNN from CDW, a wintel vendor.a  I It was extoling the "HP Storageworks SAN array" and while showing it, youC" could clearly see the Compaq logo.  G Interesting that the Storageworks is being marketed right away as an HPeJ branded product while Compaq's PCs continue to be marketed as Compaq ones.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:34:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?a, Message-ID: <3CF3DBB8.1635FFDD@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:t > 2 > well Bill Todd, answer the inquirers question -- > ? > * TOMORROW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE in Alaska will talk about DesignsG > Tradeoffs for the Alpha EV8. This technology now belongs to Intel andh@ > we are told the EV8 is "dead". So what's that all about, then?  L Academia doesn't have a problem looking at "concepts" even though they standL no chance at becoming products.  EV8 was planning to make use of interestingM concepts, so it is natural that academia might look at whether those concepts  would have been good or bad.  J What it means to me is that academia still regards Alpha's architecture as0 more interesting to study than the 8086 or IA64.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 12:34:48 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?P= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205281134.328bfd1a@posting.google.com>   m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0205280618.7ae710ff@posting.google.com>...e2 > well Bill Todd, answer the inquirers question -- > ? > * TOMORROW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE in Alaska will talk about DesigndG > Tradeoffs for the Alpha EV8. This technology now belongs to Intel andd@ > we are told the EV8 is "dead". So what's that all about, then? > ! > here is the article in full ...P >  > ) > European plot thickens on Itanic front s > ( > Intel teams up with Barcelona boffins 0 > By Branch Speculation, 28/05/2002 15:04:11 BST > F > ROGER ESPASA gave a talk about Tarantula at an Alaskan semiconductor. > conference, as we reported over the weekend.@ > But he's also a 64-bit boffin at the Universitat Politecnia de > Catalunya in Barcelona.t > H > And by a curious coincidence, Intel today announced that the ComputingH > Dept at Barcelona will host a research centre funded by the chip giant > later in the year. > B > According to Intel, this will let it work "with some of the best( > microprocessor researchers in Europe". > F > The Computer Architecture Dept at the University will collaborate onB > "advanced microprocessor technologies" for both Intel Itanic and > Pentium 4 processors.l > < > Those, said Intel in a statement will "focus on increasingF > microprocessor performance, reducing power consumption and extending > battery life". > G > So it isn't just Pentium 4s and Itanics, but obviously Banias systems  > too. > F > The firm said that the department at the university has 70 full timeB > members working on comms and telecomms enginering including VLSID > systems design, processor microarchitecture and code generation.  > ? > * TOMORROW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE in Alaska will talk about DesignaG > Tradeoffs for the Alpha EV8. This technology now belongs to Intel and @ > we are told the EV8 is "dead". So what's that all about, then? > @ > ** HPQ RELEASED the AlphaServer SC20 and said it had sold someB > already. The SC20 has a pair of 833MHz Alpha EV68 chips with 4MB > cache.  A I don't know about you Bill, but to me this means EV8 on Intel isnE coming and EV9 tarantuala designs are coming also ... in other words,o Alpha lives on Intel!a   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 12:37:45 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?i= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205281137.20a0b4cd@posting.google.com>/  m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0205280618.7ae710ff@posting.google.com>... 2 > well Bill Todd, answer the inquirers question -- > ? > * TOMORROW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE in Alaska will talk about DesigneG > Tradeoffs for the Alpha EV8. This technology now belongs to Intel andr@ > we are told the EV8 is "dead". So what's that all about, then? > ! > here is the article in full ...d >  > ) > European plot thickens on Itanic front l > ( > Intel teams up with Barcelona boffins 0 > By Branch Speculation, 28/05/2002 15:04:11 BST > F > ROGER ESPASA gave a talk about Tarantula at an Alaskan semiconductor. > conference, as we reported over the weekend.@ > But he's also a 64-bit boffin at the Universitat Politecnia de > Catalunya in Barcelona.v > H > And by a curious coincidence, Intel today announced that the ComputingH > Dept at Barcelona will host a research centre funded by the chip giant > later in the year. > B > According to Intel, this will let it work "with some of the best( > microprocessor researchers in Europe". > F > The Computer Architecture Dept at the University will collaborate onB > "advanced microprocessor technologies" for both Intel Itanic and > Pentium 4 processors.  > < > Those, said Intel in a statement will "focus on increasingF > microprocessor performance, reducing power consumption and extending > battery life". > G > So it isn't just Pentium 4s and Itanics, but obviously Banias systemsb > too. > F > The firm said that the department at the university has 70 full timeB > members working on comms and telecomms enginering including VLSID > systems design, processor microarchitecture and code generation.  > ? > * TOMORROW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE in Alaska will talk about DesigniG > Tradeoffs for the Alpha EV8. This technology now belongs to Intel andJ@ > we are told the EV8 is "dead". So what's that all about, then? > @ > ** HPQ RELEASED the AlphaServer SC20 and said it had sold someB > already. The SC20 has a pair of 833MHz Alpha EV68 chips with 4MB > cache.  D and it makes sense ... windoze 2000 32 bit already ran on Alpha, theB 64 bit platform is known to exist until Capellas killed it for his: bonus check, and if you are Intel, why reinvent the wheel?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 12:33:17 -0700t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ' Subject: RE: Inquirer says Alpha lives?n9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEDEFBAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----a0 >From: Bob Ceculski [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]% >Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 12:35 PMa >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? >h >-4 >bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message: >news:<d7791aa1.0205280618.7ae710ff@posting.google.com>...3 >> well Bill Todd, answer the inquirers question --r >>@ >> * TOMORROW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE in Alaska will talk about DesignH >> Tradeoffs for the Alpha EV8. This technology now belongs to Intel andA >> we are told the EV8 is "dead". So what's that all about, then?s >>" >> here is the article in full ... >> >>) >> European plot thickens on Itanic frontw >>( >> Intel teams up with Barcelona boffins1 >> By Branch Speculation, 28/05/2002 15:04:11 BSTt >>G >> ROGER ESPASA gave a talk about Tarantula at an Alaskan semiconductorp/ >> conference, as we reported over the weekend.nA >> But he's also a 64-bit boffin at the Universitat Politecnia dek >> Catalunya in Barcelona. >>I >> And by a curious coincidence, Intel today announced that the Computing I >> Dept at Barcelona will host a research centre funded by the chip giantt >> later in the year.w >>C >> According to Intel, this will let it work "with some of the besti) >> microprocessor researchers in Europe".t >>G >> The Computer Architecture Dept at the University will collaborate oneC >> "advanced microprocessor technologies" for both Intel Itanic andr >> Pentium 4 processors. >>= >> Those, said Intel in a statement will "focus on increasing G >> microprocessor performance, reducing power consumption and extending  >> battery life".  >>H >> So it isn't just Pentium 4s and Itanics, but obviously Banias systems >> too.H >>G >> The firm said that the department at the university has 70 full timetC >> members working on comms and telecomms enginering including VLSI E >> systems design, processor microarchitecture and code generation. o >>@ >> * TOMORROW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE in Alaska will talk about DesignH >> Tradeoffs for the Alpha EV8. This technology now belongs to Intel andA >> we are told the EV8 is "dead". So what's that all about, then?o >>A >> ** HPQ RELEASED the AlphaServer SC20 and said it had sold sometC >> already. The SC20 has a pair of 833MHz Alpha EV68 chips with 4MBc	 >> cache._ >oB >I don't know about you Bill, but to me this means EV8 on Intel isF >coming and EV9 tarantuala designs are coming also ... in other words, >Alpha lives on Intel!  G That may be, but I think you are dreaming.  These confrences are booked'J long in advance, and the fact that some engineers are giving presentationsI about specific alpha designs in no way changes reality.  Time to move on.    >d >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).bA >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >i ---f& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:44:31 GMTa1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>*' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?e7 Message-ID: <z6RI8.163$fT5.151919@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>.  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEDEFBAA.tom@kednos.com...n >e >m > >-----Original Message-----22 > >From: Bob Ceculski [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]' > >Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 12:35 PM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* > >Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? > >a > >w6 > >bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message< > >news:<d7791aa1.0205280618.7ae710ff@posting.google.com>...5 > >> well Bill Todd, answer the inquirers question --  > >>B > >> * TOMORROW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE in Alaska will talk about DesignJ > >> Tradeoffs for the Alpha EV8. This technology now belongs to Intel andC > >> we are told the EV8 is "dead". So what's that all about, then?   J Just because Alpha will shuffle off its mortal coils when EV79 reaches EOLC doesn't mean that CPU design issues are irrelevant.  I suspect sucht! tradeoffs are not Alpha-specific.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 16:56:49 -0400w* From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.nospam.com>' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? 3 Message-ID: <3cf3ef06$0$3329$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>1   >pC > I don't know about you Bill, but to me this means EV8 on Intel is G > coming and EV9 tarantuala designs are coming also ... in other words,p > Alpha lives on Intel!^  =    And in your Dreams........................................i   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:20:15 +0200 (CEST)% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>m3 Subject: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???(8 Message-ID: <68ce1278a7cb88b8c600926894007bd9@dizum.com>  > Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock nonstop.  . Did you just get out of prison or something???   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:24:04 GMTm From: "Nuggs" <nuggs@nuggs.com>e7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison??? = Message-ID: <okUI8.151114$GG6.12998691@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>b  2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:68ce1278a7cb88b8c600926894007bd9@dizum.com...@ > Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock
 > nonstop. >h0 > Did you just get out of prison or something???  L Hey, JF is a very decent contributor who keeps us all thinking. If you don't+ care to read his stuff, then don't open it.s  K Haven't seen much of anything decent from you, however. Guess you must have 3 just got outta prison and don't have much to offer.o   Go to bed and get some rest!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:01:02 GMTs# From: "Rev" <NoWayJose@GetReal.com>y7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???r= Message-ID: <2TUI8.153249$xS2.12508478@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>   2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:68ce1278a7cb88b8c600926894007bd9@dizum.com...@ > Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock
 > nonstop. >-0 > Did you just get out of prison or something???  ( JF Mezei a troll????????????????????????  L Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-vha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hL a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haL -ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-L ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-h a-ha-ha-ha-a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:50:59 +00002 From: Dave <ex@duopp.ie>7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???u5 Message-ID: <b598fusuadie2hm4hdaar86ftvt84rpid3@root>S  & Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:  ? >Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock 	 >nonstop.e >5/ >Did you just get out of prison or something???.  O You have to understand JF.  He's an adult baby.  Still lives at home with mommycK and daddy, doesn't have to make a living, has no responsibilities, his maincH activities in life are beating his meat and flooding the newsgroups with	 nonsense.   M Filter him out and you'll see the signal/noise ratio in your group skyrocket.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:55:13 +0000  From: Dave <ex@duopp.ie>7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???l5 Message-ID: <oh98fucu525c3s5setbrpcssqv86je9dk2@root>i  4 Amish, playing "Rev" <NoWayJose@GetReal.com>, wrote:   >B3 >"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message 3 >news:68ce1278a7cb88b8c600926894007bd9@dizum.com... A >> Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock. >> nonstop.: >>1 >> Did you just get out of prison or something???r >c) >JF Mezei a troll????????????????????????  >dM >Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ho    <snip Amish's cut-and-paste job>  K Well, he does have some trollish characteristics, but most of his newsgroup B activities fall more under the category of flooding than trolling.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:52:05 +0000  From: Dave <ex@duopp.ie>7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???A5 Message-ID: <1g98fu07s6poqsq2jpd645t3nctunon63j@root>c    "Nuggs" <nuggs@nuggs.com> wrote:   >l3 >"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in messageO3 >news:68ce1278a7cb88b8c600926894007bd9@dizum.com...gA >> Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clockn >> nonstop.e >>1 >> Did you just get out of prison or something???t >?M >Hey, JF is a very decent contributor who keeps us all thinking. If you don'td, >care to read his stuff, then don't open it. >nL >Haven't seen much of anything decent from you, however. Guess you must have4 >just got outta prison and don't have much to offer. >a >Go to bed and get some rest!a  ? Awww...isn't Amish sweet, sticking up for his little friend....t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:16:16 GMT " From: mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz)7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???a7 Message-ID: <AZVI8.34653$R_4.2221@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>1  ' Nomen Nescio  <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:o@ > Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock
 > nonstop. >l0 > Did you just get out of prison or something???  I What is up with the pre-school insults in this newsgroup? Where do peoples like that come from? h  B JF has a unique personality, but he's always treated everyone with consideration and dignity.   miguel -- ,H Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu: New mini photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:24:38 GMT & From: TMOliver <olive(DEL)@calpha.com>7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison??? : Message-ID: <Xns921CCF0ECE19olivecalphacom@208.232.233.21>   Miguel Cruz pustulated:u  ) > Nomen Nescio  <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:i; >> Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the  >> clock nonstop.  >>1 >> Did you just get out of prison or something???t > ; > What is up with the pre-school insults in this newsgroup?o' > Where do people like that come from? e > 6 > JF has a unique personality, but he's always treated* > everyone with consideration and dignity.  r  ? Even I  who treat him with impolite tackiness have high regrad c= for his valiant (if oft misguided) attempts to steer us in a  > path of righteousness.  He is a good man in a world where the @ market for good men has declined substantially, a fighter for a > misguided perception of right, and deserves my defense, grace : and favor for his courageous if duffle-butted perspective.  @ 'urrah for JF.  May his camels' eyes not become diseased, ample < grazing spring up in his pastures, his date trees bear much A fruit and his daughters be snatched up by rich despots in search   of tight pussy.a   TMOd   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 03:44:45 +0200 (CEST). From: Fuck Off Miguel <miguel.is.a@nigger.com>7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???tD Message-ID: <59041fac9a01929c2124038133e71208@remailer.segfault.net>  # mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz) wrote:a  ( >Nomen Nescio  <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:A >> Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clocko >> nonstop.  >>1 >> Did you just get out of prison or something???- > C >What is up with the pre-school insults in this newsgroup? Where dol >people like that come from? s >pC >JF has a unique personality, but he's always treated everyone withc >consideration and dignity.B >C >miguelw  8 Well isn't that nice, one troll sticking up for another.  D Hey grungeboy, why don't you fuck off.  Don't you have a Black Power meeting to go to?H   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:51:29 GMTV1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>a7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison????8 Message-ID: <BuWI8.1382$fT5.273723@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  / "Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in messagem1 news:AZVI8.34653$R_4.2221@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...o) > Nomen Nescio  <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:AB > > Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock > > nonstop. > >d2 > > Did you just get out of prison or something??? >tK > What is up with the pre-school insults in this newsgroup? Where do peopleo > like that come from? > D > JF has a unique personality, but he's always treated everyone with > consideration and dignity.  H With the exception of the Wall Street Casino Analysts and GQ Bob, that'sK pretty much the case. And ya gotta admit, JF treats--or tries to treat--VMSpJ with more dignity and respect than does a computer vendor or three I could name...s   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 22:29:45 -0700# From: mga707@earthlink.net (mga707)t7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison??? = Message-ID: <c634b48a.0205282129.6a0e2033@posting.google.com>   e Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message news:<68ce1278a7cb88b8c600926894007bd9@dizum.com>...t@ > Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock
 > nonstop. > 0 > Did you just get out of prison or something???  E Think about it...it's not like he's actually got to go out and earn aW living or anything! F Living in Mommy's basement means you've got plenty of time to spew out. your masturbatory fantasies on the internet...   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:42:20 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>lO Subject: Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...t' Message-ID: <3CF44381.4E6D973A@fsi.net>a   Roy Omond wrote: >  > paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com wrote:n > E > > I can also confirm some good news. I am aware of at least 2 largev4 > > institutions that are expanding in the VMS area.O > > Let's have some good news in this forum sometimes - surely there is some?!?c > : > I am also aware of a large customer actively considering8 > the establishment of a new data centre in Raleigh (NC)8 > based on a cluster of 6 fully populated ES45's running > VMS and Oracle.8  F Any chance either of you can name names? It would go a long way toward. bolstering the credibility of such statements.  F At the very least, can you say "a major (industry name) concern" or "a fortune {10|100|1000} company"?a  $ This stealth nonsense is KILLING us!   -- R David J. DachteraL dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:44:30 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>iO Subject: Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...h' Message-ID: <3CF44405.A2A929D0@fsi.net>>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com wrote:e > >dE > > I can also confirm some good news. I am aware of at least 2 largel4 > > institutions that are expanding in the VMS area.O > > Let's have some good news in this forum sometimes - surely there is some?!?u > >t > > Paul > H > Do they need a contractor? Are they trying to hire boys for mens wagesL > like the rest of the market? (not meant to be a sexist comment, just rolls4 > of the tongue better then gender neutral version).  C Try: "Are they trying to hire senior people for recent-grad wages?"t   -- c David J. Dachtera" dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:41:06 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>yO Subject: Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...s, Message-ID: <3CF44DC6.C23D5A9C@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:H > Any chance either of you can name names? It would go a long way toward0 > bolstering the credibility of such statements.  N The original poster has an email adress belonging to a british bank whose nameJ would lead one to believe it was based in Hong Kong and Shanghai. So it is8 likely that his information would be about another bank.  N I personally know that Barclays in Coventry had some VMS. Not sure if it stillL has it. Of the other banks, the VPs with whom I had contacts with (includingH HSBC) all had been brainwashed into thinking VMS was dead. This includedH ABM-Amro, Citibank and Bankers Trust (which was bought by Deutche Bank).  L Since I was personally screwed by those VPs who acted in a less than ethicalN manner, I have no problem mentioning their bank names. My only comfort is thatJ the Citibank VP retired rather quickly at the time that the SEC started toI investigate that bank for allowing money laundering by the russian mafia.e  M This was at about the same time where it was revealed that Morgan Stanley hadrN hired someone to falsify books and then have one employee arrested and sent toM prison for fraud. Seems that they didn't have the guts to fire him for havinggL appeared naked in a gay magazine. The employee was smarter than they thought) and he hired a PI who uncovered the deed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:59:38 -0400i) From: "Jeff Killeen" <KilleenJ@toast.net>v* Subject: Next Generation IA64 test results/ Message-ID: <uf8o2bm8vg7864@corp.supernews.com>m  L http://wsj.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailT
 oID=360287987n     --   Jeff Killeen    ? ---------------------------------------------------------------8   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 05:04:08 GMTs/ From: "Encompass" <Jeffrey.Killeen@Verizon.net>c. Subject: Re: Next Generation IA64 test results5 Message-ID: <cjZI8.6472$dS.3527@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>w  & You need to fix the wrap on the URL...   <START URL>   L http://wsj.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailT
 oID=360287987E  	 <END URL>n   --   Jeff Killeen   All Info: http://www.Killeen.cci  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------l  4 "Jeff Killeen" <KilleenJ@toast.net> wrote in message) news:uf8o2bm8vg7864@corp.supernews.com...e >tL http://wsj.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailT > oID=360287987e >u >2 > -- >2 > Jeff Killeen >r > A > ---------------------------------------------------------------p >l >s >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:22:16 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l. Subject: Re: Next Generation IA64 test results* Message-ID: <3CF46575.8959C6@videotron.ca>   Encompass wrote: > ( > You need to fix the wrap on the URL...  [ > http://wsj.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=360287987   N If you precede the URL with a >, many news clients won't try to flow the text.  6 Or you could have posted the real URL which is shorter  F > http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB1022623593520604040,00.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:30:43 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>2. Subject: Re: Next Generation IA64 test results, Message-ID: <3CF4676F.5FDF69A3@videotron.ca>  K Is it possible that HP will delay EV7 systems until after  IA64 version 2.0N comes out ?<  M Will IA64 V2.0 have "world's fastest chip" status if it comes out this summeroN with the speed estimates, or will it still be eclipsed by Power and the 2.4ghz 8086 ?  6 Is there any chance that it would be faster than EV7 ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 18:39:18 GMTa& From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesn) Message-ID: <3CF3CFD2.E1156FCE@attbi.com>h   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:n > L > "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message2 > news:20020528150827.28008.qmail@gacracker.org... >  > <snip> > >yM > > It probably isn't within your power to make the changes, or authorize theeK > > expenditure, to make the visible statements about VMS that many in this"K > > newsgroup would like. However, if the opportunity arises I'm sure therei > are.L > > many who would appreciate if you could pass on what we (a) would like toH > > see, and (b) believe would be a wise strategy for HP. There are many > placesN > > using VMS that offer a lot of marketing potential. I for one would love toD > > see the following in very large text in the Wall Street Journal. > >a4 > >     "The Whitehouse is immune to email viruses?" > >-& > >     "Of course, they use OpenVMS." > >aM > > There would naturally need to be a follow-on or complimentary campaign inaF > > the IT press to ensure that when the CEO asks his IT staff "What's" > > OpenVMS?" they can answer him. > N > Yeah, I'd like to see the ad, too, but something tells me that the epicenterH > of the US Government would not want to serve as a reference site. EvenM > though they've used ALL-In-1 since it was perpetrated, and even though theyh5 > have (IIRC) FIVE VMS-based GS-320s on site now. ;-}h  B Now we know:  the Whitehouse is a place where the Sun don't shine. -- - Cheers, Boba   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:29:29 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales-, Message-ID: <3CF3DA99.A5EED228@videotron.ca>   Andrew Dodd wrote:M > My reading is that by using 230% more CPUs the 15K does 50% more work. That-L > does not to me say that one of these boxes is a technology failure and the > other a triumph.  J But when a customer compares the cost of both options, does the Sun option. cost less even though it has more CPUs in it ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:40:27 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales-, Message-ID: <3CF3DD2A.BE961E44@videotron.ca>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:a2 >     "The Whitehouse is immune to email viruses?" > $ >     "Of course, they use OpenVMS."  N Considering ALL-IN-1/Office Server are being abandonned and not ported to thatH IA64 thing, I doubt that HP would want to brag about it killing productsK relied upon by the white house. And it is likely that the white house wouldhM have plans to dump ALL-IN-1 in time since the product will become mature in ah version or two.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:02:04 GMT-1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>a Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales-7 Message-ID: <MuQI8.155$fT5.140272@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>a  J "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message0 news:20020528174416.31114.qmail@gacracker.org...I > On Tue, 28 May 2002, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:a > >aE > >Yeah, I'd like to see the ad, too, but something tells me that the-	 epicenter I > >of the US Government would not want to serve as a reference site. Even I > >though they've used ALL-In-1 since it was perpetrated, and even thoughs they6 > >have (IIRC) FIVE VMS-based GS-320s on site now. ;-} > I > Well, I didn't really think that the Whitehouse would go for it, but it L > wouldn't hurt to ask them. There's got to be other high-profile sites thatJ > everyone has heard of that would be prepared to be references. Can't seeL > the NSA being a reference site either... but, a picture of the VMS sectionK > of their datacenter with the caption "For reasons of national security weiJ > can't tell you whose computers these are, but they all run VMS" would be, > nice. Need to be a big picture though. :-)  I Yep. The Enchanted Basement in the Big Building on Savage Road is at last J report 18 acres in size. I haven't been in the employ of an NSA subsidiaryI for more than 30 years now, but I am told that No Such Agency gets Serial"I Number One of just about every Next New Thing that comes off the assemblyo line.e  H I know that the Naval Security Group has more than a passing interest inG VMS. As does, or, did, the folks who run the communications system that - links our submarine force to the landlubbers.i  E And of course there's Sandia, Livermore, Los Alamos, etc, etc, etc...h   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:49:13 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: No new Alpha saless@ Message-ID: <ZaRI8.48693$Kp.5012136@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CF3DA99.A5EED228@videotron.ca... > Andrew Dodd wrote:J > > My reading is that by using 230% more CPUs the 15K does 50% more work. ThatJ > > does not to me say that one of these boxes is a technology failure and thel > > other a triumph. >@L > But when a customer compares the cost of both options, does the Sun option0 > cost less even though it has more CPUs in it ?  J Even if that happens to be the case, it's more a marketing decision than aL technical issue.  Let's keep at least *trying* to compare performance apples to performance apples.  J It's somewhat easier to get better per-processor performance out of systemI that maxes out at 32 processors than one that maxes out at 72 (or 108, ordG whatever Sun is supporting now) processors, and benchmarks don't alwaysnL scale linearly either as processor counts increase.  About the closest to anG apples-to-apples comparison you could get would be to run the test on a(J 32-processor E15K and see how it compared with the maxed-out GS box, using# top-of-the-line processors in each.2   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:04:28 GMTJ1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>. Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesr7 Message-ID: <0xQI8.156$fT5.140853@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>s  3 "Bob Willard" <BobwBSGS@attbi.com> wrote in messagee# news:3CF3CFD2.E1156FCE@attbi.com...t   >tD > Now we know:  the Whitehouse is a place where the Sun don't shine. > --  I Yeah, which makes me wonder how Algore got away with his "the dog ate the I emails" codswallop. Ostensibly a boatload of emails (incriminating? we'll-H never know!) were archived on Zip disks. Why on God's green earth anyoneI would (or, for that matter, even COULD) archive VMS stuff on a crufty Zipn disk is beyond me...   cheers,9  # terry "just a bureaucratic snafu" sl   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 20:59:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales 3 Message-ID: <UShhYEBG8QmY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <0xQI8.156$fT5.140853@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:  > 5 > "Bob Willard" <BobwBSGS@attbi.com> wrote in messager% > news:3CF3CFD2.E1156FCE@attbi.com...r >  >>E >> Now we know:  the Whitehouse is a place where the Sun don't shine.a >> --i > K > Yeah, which makes me wonder how Algore got away with his "the dog ate thedK > emails" codswallop. Ostensibly a boatload of emails (incriminating? we'll J > never know!) were archived on Zip disks. Why on God's green earth anyoneK > would (or, for that matter, even COULD) archive VMS stuff on a crufty ZipJ > disk is beyond me...  D As I recall that story, the information was on a local disk on a PC,B a "D" drive they added in addition to the "C" drive, but when they? added the "D" drive they did not add it to the backup schedule.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:05:47 GMTO( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)+ Message-ID: <3CF3D55E.6FDD51FB@pacbell.net>e   Paul Hardy wrote:l > 7 > "Don Sykes" <annonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in messagei' > news:3CEECEC3.DDFA728A@pacbell.net...t > > Everhart wrote:v
 > > <snip>G > > > It is of course always fun to express, say, the speed of light in  > > > rods per fortnight...s > >i: > > I LOVE that! Have you ever calculated rods/fortnight ? > L > No, but as a student nearly thirty years ago, I wrote a Fortran program toH > print out the accelleration due to gravity in various units. It ratherI > amused me that two good aproximations are: 1Mm/month/month, and 1 lighttG > year/year/year ! I think both these are better than the usual 10m/s/s- > approximation. > A > The light year per year per year neglects relativity of course!" > H > Now I still have the punched cards somewhere, and I have a VMS Fortran0 > system to hand - anyone got a card reader? :^) >  > -- > Paul Hardy (Paul@lsl.co.uk)n  M I have a similar program (somewhere in my garage I think) that calculates theoK change in time as velocity approaches C. It's written in Basic on a punchedbC paper tape and was created on a Honeywell 600 GECOS system in 1974.t -- o   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Franciscos   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:28:08 GMTs' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>e, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)) Message-ID: <3CF3E5D1.158E3512@yahoo.com>    Kevin Handy wrote: >  ... snip ... > > > One of the programs availabel from http://www.gnu.org is one; > called units, which will convert from one unit of measureo= > to another. It is capable of many amusing conversions, such   > as 'miles/gallon' to '1/acre'.  1 There is something dimensionally wrong with that.J  = miles per gallon         length/length**3        = length**-2.  9 l/acre                   lenght**3/length**2     = lengtho   -- m< Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.i:    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 03:19:14 GMTg From: phobos <phobos@quik.com>, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)8 Message-ID: <l7i8fuo7gq9p24itdgpul7mvhocdn7lo8h@4ax.com>  ( CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:   >Kevin Handy wrote:  >>  
 >... snip ...2 >> 2? >> One of the programs availabel from http://www.gnu.org is onej< >> called units, which will convert from one unit of measure> >> to another. It is capable of many amusing conversions, such! >> as 'miles/gallon' to '1/acre'.s >c2 >There is something dimensionally wrong with that. >I> >miles per gallon         length/length**3        = length**-2 > : >l/acre                   lenght**3/length**2     = length  ^  |  |  ? A quick font change confirms that that's a number "1" and not ae6 lower-case letter "L".  So it makes perfect sense.  :)   -- Greg phobos@quik.coma http://houston.quik.com/phobos   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 05:06:43 GMTn' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> , Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)( Message-ID: <3CF45B03.3005892@yahoo.com>  
 phobos wrote:  > * > CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote: >  > >Kevin Handy wrote:s > >> > >... snip ...a > >>A > >> One of the programs availabel from http://www.gnu.org is oneA> > >> called units, which will convert from one unit of measure@ > >> to another. It is capable of many amusing conversions, such# > >> as 'miles/gallon' to '1/acre'.e > >o4 > >There is something dimensionally wrong with that. > >S@ > >miles per gallon         length/length**3        = length**-2 > >i< > >l/acre                   lenght**3/length**2     = length >  ^ >  | >  | > A > A quick font change confirms that that's a number "1" and not a 8 > lower-case letter "L".  So it makes perfect sense.  :)  B OK then.  I guess I could have figured that out, except in contextB I was immediately stuck with liters.  Now how do you pronounce it,@ and what is the conversion factor.  I am much too lazy to figure< it out.  My car gets about 30 mpg, so how do I pronounce the8 result? Once in a blue moon I do gyrations to convert to
 litres/100km.p  @ My car gets fifteen per acre? or 0.0015 per acre?  I am too lazyB to even do an order of magnitude conversion!  Maybe the conversionB should be to one/(minimum building lot in town XXX) :-) pronounced number per lot.   @ By comparison with litres/100 km, we should be using the inverse= conversion, and measure fuel efficiency in acres :-)  No moreeA pronounciation difficulties.  Using this as a tool we might get ao7 decent CAFE specification passed :-)  "The average fueleA consumption of a manufacturers vehicles must not exceed X acres".g" (or should that be hectares). FUD.   --  < Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.K:    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:15:10 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins) 4 Message-ID: <1020528190840.359A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On Tue, 28 May 2002, CBFalconer wrote:   > Kevin Handy wrote: > >  > ... snip ... > > @ > > One of the programs availabel from http://www.gnu.org is one= > > called units, which will convert from one unit of measurer? > > to another. It is capable of many amusing conversions, suchi" > > as 'miles/gallon' to '1/acre'. > 3 > There is something dimensionally wrong with that.o > ? > miles per gallon         length/length**3        = length**-2u > ; > l/acre                   lenght**3/length**2     = lengthi  9 The original units are 1/acre (i.e. acre**-1), not l/acret (liters/acre).  ; Acres, being a measure of area, are length**2, so 1/acre ish; length**-2, so the conversion was dimensionally consistent.e  < I remember doing physics problems in college where you could< get the right answer solely from dimensional analysis of the9 problem.  Too long ago to give any examples, though.  :-(a   -- v John Santosx Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:51:16 +0100a From: EdL <edl@euronet.nl>$ Subject: Re: pbxga-aa/an on PWS500au+ Message-ID: <B919E494.13C49%edl@euronet.nl>-  J in article rdeininger-2705022053160001@11cust128.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net,H Robert Deininger at rdeininger@mindspring.com wrote on 28-05-2002 01:53:  L > In article <3CF14889.8030601@home.nl>, munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com > wrote: > M >> Graphics cards should be placed in PCI slot 4 and/or 5 (the lowest slots)./ >> eE >> However you also have another problem. This is an extract from the6" >> release notes of Open3D V 4.9B: >> e9 >> ________________________ Note ________________________- >> -4 >> Compaq Open3D Version 4.4 was the last version of5 >> Compaq Open3D for OpenVMS Alpha that supported them >> following graphics devices: >> t* >> o  ZLX-E Series: ZLX-E1, ZLX-E2, ZLX-E3 >> c" >> o  ZLX-L Series: ZLX-L1, ZLX-L2 >> e" >> o  ZLX-M Series: ZLX-M1, ZLX-M2 >>  . >> o  ZLXp-E Series: ZLXp-E1, ZLXp-E2, ZLXp-E3 >> -9 >> The ZLX-E, ZLX-M, ZLX-L, and ZLXp-E series devices are-6 >> no longer supported by Compaq Open3D. There is bug-8 >> fix support available for current versions of OpenVMS9 >> Alpha. However, no software enhancements are availableo8 >> for these devices. Device support for future versions7 >> of OpenVMS Alpha will be shipped for a limited time.o9 >> New workstations and/or operating system versions willf >> not be supported. >>  ? >> So it seems your card is no longer supported I'm afraid ....h >  > F > It is supposed to be the case that nothing has been taken out of theK > Open3D kit.  All the device drivers supplied in the older versions should ! > still be in the current Open3D.r > G > I don't have any personal experience with this graphics adapter, so I6J > can't confirm this myself.  If anyone finds that these cards DON'T work, > please post your experiences.  > J > This is one of the cases where "supported" and "works" are two different	 > things.s > L > A peek in SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$CONFIG.DAT on my system shows that these adapters% > want device drivers from this list:? > SYS$GYADRIVER.EXEc > SYS$GYBDRIVER.EXEs > SYS$GYCDRIVER.EXE- > SYS$GVADRIVER.EXE- > SYS$GUADRIVER.EXE  > K > All of these drivers are present on my system. I installed Open3D 4.9A; IeJ > assume that's where the drivers came from, unless they were part of base > VMS. >  > J > On some recent alpha system, these PCI cards probably won't work becauseI > of PCI bus incompatibilities.  For example, some PCI bridge chips don't  > quite meet the spec.  I Indeed, this is happening on the PWS500au, I'm afraid that I have to looka for another graphics card.   Regards, Edwin n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:16:46 -0400r2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)$ Subject: Re: pbxga-aa/an on PWS500auL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2805022316470001@11cust207.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  G In article <B919E494.13C49%edl@euronet.nl>, EdL <edl@euronet.nl> wrote:e  K >> On some recent alpha system, these PCI cards probably won't work becauserJ >> of PCI bus incompatibilities.  For example, some PCI bridge chips don't >> quite meet the spec.O >VJ >Indeed, this is happening on the PWS500au, I'm afraid that I have to look >for another graphics card.e  J Don't give up until you try all the slots.  I think the bridge arrangement0 is not uniform for all the slots in that system.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:38:29 GMTw1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Pipes in DCL1' Message-ID: <3CF44298.9607BA34@fsi.net>h   David Mathog wrote:I >  > Stuart Fuller wrote: > >  > > Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote: > >e	 > > > Hi, N > > > I would like to how to concatenate two commands in DCL or how to execute* > > > two commands on single command line. > > >F > > > For example.F > > > In Unix we use pipes to send the ouput of one command to another > > > $ who | grep martin E > > > and semicolon to execute more than one command at single prompt1 > >e- > > $ pipe show user | search sys$pipe martina > 5 > True, except that unlike every unix you'll ever trye8 > the performance of a multistage VMS pipe goes straight8 > to hell as the number of stages increase.  Or at least: > that's how it was on VMS 7.2-1, when last I looked.  The5 > DCL pipe was handy for very small operations (which<= > the above might or might not be, depending on your system),-< > but ironically, considering the rest of the OS, it was not: > industrial strength and could not be used to efficiently- > sequentially process large amounts of data.o > 1 > There was a thread on this topic back in 6/2000n > in this newsgroup. > 4 > Has pipe performance improved on 7.3?  There was a4 > trivial performance test in the 6/2000 thread, has > anybody run it on 7.3?   <hornets_nest>G Personally, I view PIPE as a concession to the UN*X world where this ishH common. It does provide a certain convenience being able to do away with? temporary files and such; however, it has some limits which arec, artifacts of the underlying DCL environment. </hornets_nest>f   -- 7 David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 18:56:33 GMTb( From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@ACM5.org>B Subject: POLYCENTER PRODUCT CONFIGURE/CONFIGURATION=(INPUT,OUTPUT)@ Message-ID: <BpQI8.1113$Mo.365@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  	 On  page:g  '         OpenVMS System Manager's Manualr(         POLYCENTER Software Installation)         3.7.4.4 Modifying an Existing PCF   G         http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6017/6017pro_007.htmli  
 It states:  L > You can use DCL to modify an existing file. Specify the name of the PCF toK > be modified and the name of the PCF to be created. Include both the INPUTnJ > and the OUTPUT keywords with the /CONFIGURATION qualifier on the PRODUCTJ > CONFIGURE command line. For example, read the default values in the fileF > PRODUCTA_REV1.DAT, make changes to the file, and save the changes to.                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ & > PRODUCTA_REV2.DAT, the output file:  >n > $ PRODUCT CONFIGURE - H > _$ /CONFIGURATION=(INPUT=PRODUCTA_REV1.DAT,OUTPUT=PRODUCTA_REV2.DAT) - > _$ PRODUCTA  0    9 So, does it save those changes to PRODUCTA_REV1.DAT also?b   -- o C.W.Holeman II cwhii5@ACM5.org  remove the fives http://also.as/cwhii   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:25:24 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i Subject: Re: Powered by HP' Message-ID: <3CF43F8B.BEC41537@fsi.net>    Bob Kaplow wrote:' >  > In article <rdeininger-1005022150340001@1cust113.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:L > > In article <YGYC8.36976$GLp1.3995@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,( > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > >wO > >>HP can take one submission/petition, signed by thousands, and circular file9 > >>it very quickly. > >>N > >>Hundreds of individual letters arriving daily from different customers areB > >>harder to ignore. (It's the same way you  influence Congress). > >>M > >>Get the Chairman/CEO/President/COO/CFO etc...as high as you can get to in O > >>your own organization to send the letter to Carly......you write it for himt > >>if you have to > >> > >>Get them in the mail asap. > >i > > An excellent suggestion. > >aL > > I would add that copies of the letters should go to Scott Stallard, MarkM > > Gorham, and Peter Blackmore.  VMS gets Mark's undivided attention, and isrI > > a significant part of Scott's territory.  Scott is the new guy in the ' > > picture with high-octane authority.u > >iN > > Carly and Mike have a lot on their plate for the forseeable future, and weK > > have to admit that VMS is a pretty small part of the whole HP pie.  TheoK > > only sane way for them to treat a small business like VMS is to rely onc8 > > the advice and wisdom of their lower-level managers. > >sM > > If Scott can be convinced of the value to HP of a healthy VMS business, I N > > expect he will help VMS whenever possible.  I suspect he is still learningB > > about the various business units he took charge of on Tuesday. > 1 > How about posting their email addresses here...o  E Properly munged, of course, to defeat the spambots. The last thing we:! need is to royally piss them off.h   -- o David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 16:16:12 -0500y& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>! Subject: Re: RF74 HDA formatting.v8 Message-ID: <8qs7fucbss1fi4g05d29jfig257t3d38kf@4ax.com>  . On Tue, 28 May 2002 11:07:59 +1000, John Welsh$ <johnW@digitalexpress.com.au> wrote:   >Hi all,' >	I have a dead RF74 with a faulty HDA.e >LC >	I also have a good RZ74 and the HDA part # is the same as for theY >RF74. >nB >	Is there any way to reformat the RZ HDA to RF format structure ? >pF >	The ERASE command only zero's out each data block,  the basic format@ >	of the disk must be intact.  I have also tried DKUTIL but this
 >didn't help.i >m   What is it you want to do?  6 What kind of server do you have?  What OS and version?D If you have the RZ74 connected to your system (i.e., the same one as> the RF74), just INITIALIZE it and copy/restore the data to it.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqr- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:51:01 +1000t. From: John Welsh <johnW@digitalexpress.com.au>! Subject: RE: RF74 HDA formatting.l: Message-ID: <D1772475427AD411AB770000F80659F00ACFA6@DGNT4>   JL,rD 	What I want to do is fix the RF74.....by replacing the  HDA with an: 	RZ74 HDA.........and I am trying to determine how the HDA8 	is Formatted to be the correct MSCP structure with the  	FCT, RCT etc.   Regards, John Welsh. 
 ==========      3 On Wednesday, May 29, 2002 7:16 AM, jlsue wrote:>>.H   >> What is it you want to do?a  9 >> What kind of server do you have?  What OS and version?AG >> If you have the RZ74 connected to your system (i.e., the same one asuA >> the RF74), just INITIALIZE it and copy/restore the data to it.p  4 >> Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq0 >> (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)        . On Tue, 28 May 2002 11:07:59 +1000, John Welsh$ <johnW@digitalexpress.com.au> wrote:   >Hi all,' >	I have a dead RF74 with a faulty HDA.h >tC >	I also have a good RZ74 and the HDA part # is the same as for the/ >RF74. >iB >	Is there any way to reformat the RZ HDA to RF format structure ? > F >	The ERASE command only zero's out each data block,  the basic format@ >	of the disk must be intact.  I have also tried DKUTIL but this
 >didn't help.m >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:43:09 GMT.' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>r! Subject: Re: RF74 HDA formatting.a0 Message-ID: <ekd1da.jth.ln@dadsys1.fuller.local>   John Welsh wrote:c  	 > Hi all,b' > I have a dead RF74 with a faulty HDA.l > C > I also have a good RZ74 and the HDA part # is the same as for then > RF74.. > B > Is there any way to reformat the RZ HDA to RF format structure ? > F > The ERASE command only zero's out each data block,  the basic format@ > of the disk must be intact.  I have also tried DKUTIL but this > didn't help. >  > Any Ideas ??????  F I'm sorry, but I don't have specific experience with the RF series of K drives.  However, it's my observation that those machines that support the oH RF (DSSI) series of drives have a console that understands the SET HOST K command, which is used to connect the console terminal to the drive.  Once  G connected to the drive, there may be a format command that you can run.   H Or, if this is not the system disk, then using the SET HOST/DUP command H (see the help, as you'll need more than just that) might accomplish the  same thing.a           Stu    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:08:44 +1000-. From: John Welsh <johnW@digitalexpress.com.au>! Subject: RE: RF74 HDA formatting.o: Message-ID: <D1772475427AD411AB770000F80659F00ACFAA@DGNT4>   Stuart,g5 		I used to use your FSTERR program with good resultsc; 	when I was a storage support engineer with Digital. It wasi2 	a great help ... especially on TU78 media errors.  7 	I have tried all the obvious utilites on the RF drive.v6 	SET HOST/DUP gets me several utilites including ERASE> 	VERIFY and DKUTIL - none of these are capable of "FORMATTING" 	the HDA into a MSCP structure.   A 	My conclusion is that they are Factory Formatted using a speciall? 	rig or program and if the HDA dies then the entire RFxx has tot1 	be replaced ( ie: HDA and Logic Board as a set )o  ? Thanks for your reply and for the use of FSTERR many years ago.l   John WELSH.i ===========c    ' >> On Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:43 PM t >> Stuart Fuller wrote:b  I >> I'm sorry, but I don't have specific experience with the RF series of  I >> drives.  However, it's my observation that those machines that supportA the K >> RF (DSSI) series of drives have a console that understands the SET HOST cG >> command, which is used to connect the console terminal to the drive.. Once  J >> connected to the drive, there may be a format command that you can run.  J >> Or, if this is not the system disk, then using the SET HOST/DUP command >>K >> (see the help, as you'll need more than just that) might accomplish the   >> same thing.   >>	Stu     > On Tue, 28 May 2002 11:07:59 h > John Welsh wrote:s  	 > Hi all, ' > I have a dead RF74 with a faulty HDA.2 > C > I also have a good RZ74 and the HDA part # is the same as for the^ > RF74.  > B > Is there any way to reformat the RZ HDA to RF format structure ? > F > The ERASE command only zero's out each data block,  the basic format@ > of the disk must be intact.  I have also tried DKUTIL but this > didn't help. >  > Any Ideas ??????   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 12:57:07 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205281157.73abb1a5@posting.google.com>0  s SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<343f30ae.0205280657.76b75c86@posting.google.com>...  > "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in message news:<craig.berry-2BFFD3.15585324052002@news.directvinternet.com>...lA > > In article <343f30ae.0205241142.7a731bf7@posting.google.com>,a4 > >  SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote: > > M > > > "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in fR > > > message news:<craig.berry-B9EA98.17424323052002@news.directvinternet.com>...I > > > > Why, when I create a logical name where the logical name and the r > > > > equivalence S > > > > name are the same (though they may differ by case), does show logical show e
 [big snip] > ( > A more serious problem is SET DEFAULT: > < > $!   1.) If the first translation has a trailing colon and. > $!       there is no explicit directory-spec. > $!       in the second translation, SYS$DISK> > $!       is changed to the 1st translation and the directory7 > $!       portion is not changed. The "actual" current 0 > $!       directory remains hidden in SYS$DISK. > $!= > $!   2.) If the 1st translation has no trailing colon, thens4 > $!       only the directory portion of the default. > $!       is changed! This can leave SYS$DISK; > $!       incorrect thereby leaving the default incorrect.o > $! > E > These are problems I'd like to see fixed. Actually, I fixed the SETcH > DEFAULT problem in my own SET DEFAULT program called TO.COM (shamelessF > plug alert :-) It was actually menition in the release notes for VMSF > v5.5-2, that file also mentioning that it would be fixed in a futureA > release of VMS. Well, I checked VMS v7.2 and it's still broken.s  D Another problem with SET DEFAULT is that if you give it a valid diskC name, but a dir-spec that has invalid syntax, it will set the disk,eC ignore the directory portion, and report an error. Yes, my program,  TO.COM, fixes that too.-   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:11:37 -0500 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>6 Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?H Message-ID: <craig.berry-C13C38.20113628052002@news.directvinternet.com>  = In article <343f30ae.0205280657.76b75c86@posting.google.com>,c0  SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:    M > > > "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in r > > > message J > > > news:<craig.berry-B9EA98.17424323052002@news.directvinternet.com>...I > > > > Why, when I create a logical name where the logical name and the - > > > > equivalence N > > > > name are the same (though they may differ by case), does show logical 
 > > > > show l > > > > me cP > > > > the translation 10 times?  Other mechanisms for translating the logical 
 > > > > name L > > > > only see it once.  s  ! > Your example does not cause anyS# > problems. The output is correct. -  F Only if you consider confusing and spurious output correct.  There've H been cases where MONITOR showed more than 100% cpu on a processor under G certain conditions (I forget what) and it was rightly considered a bug rA and fixed.  If you can't believe what the system tells you about o! itself, then something's wrong.  p  H In the logical name case it's obviously no big deal for those of us (of H you, I should say) who can instantly call up a mental map of the entire D logical name model and translation algorithm and infer exactly what H SHOW LOGICAL is doing when it develops a stutter and gives you the same E answer 10 times in a row.  But what about the operators who work for pH you or that rare end user who isn't afraid of a command line interface? F SHOW LOGICAL is for them too, and it shouldn't tell them there are 10 G identical translations for a logical name when there is in fact only 1.e  % >  Fixing it could be problematic. IftE > you fixed it for SHOW LOGICAL, then SHOW LOGICAL would not be doingm= > the same thing as other commands, and don't you want it to?t  H I can't see any reason for any command to iterate 10 times when it only  needs 1 iteration.   > Then they'd have to E > "fix" it for all those other instances. When logical names are used D > for queues, mail addresses, etc. Maybe that would only require theF > "fix" in one place because the same routine might be called. I don't > know.o  H The whole point is that the answer is the same after 1 iteration or 10. D  Anything dealing with the file system, queues, or any other system G object is going to get the same answer whether you stop at 1 iteration pB or 10.  So why not stop at 1 iteration?  If it's too expensive to F do a recursion check, I'll buy that as a reason not to check when the G end result is all you care about.  So only do the recursion check when eD you're going to show the results at each step, as SHOW LOGICAL does.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 16:39:32 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> # Subject: RE: Stallards smoking gun!CT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660716@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF -  F >>> Will HP work to get Oracle to port its applications, or will HP be8 happy with Oracle just porting the database back end ?<<  A I have no idea about that, but I do know almost all major vendorsmC (Oracle, SAP, PeopleSoft etc) are doing migrations of their code to 1 Java, so in future - who knows what might happen?d  5 As an example of what SAP says about Java, check out:sH http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,5099254,00.h tml = "SAP said it would introduce a new version of its applicationeF server--the underlying technology upon which software applications areG built--that will enable companies to build Web services using their own D proprietary technology or using Java. Java, the programming languageH developed by Sun Microsystems, is popular with developers because it can run on any computer system."  H Note - fwiw, the effort to certify a Java App on a platform is typically8 measured in weeks vs many months for a full port effort.   :-)f   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660n Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]=20g Sent: May 18, 2002 5:34 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!l     "Main, Kerry" wrote:E > Yep, and here is a pointer to just a few of the Cust's and ISV's=20  > jumping on the IPF bandwagon:p    D Mr Main, I do not know about the rest of customers, but to me, thoseG attemps from Compaq to show customers who supported the murder of Alpha,B actually hurt Compaq more than it helped. It was very obvious spinH control, and one has to wonder what Compaq had to do for those customers> to agree to be associated with the Compaq prepared statements.  D Secondly, as far as ISVs are concerned, I think that HP will have toF start from scratch following the HP announcements of product roadmaps.H Will HP work to get Oracle to port its applications, or will HP be happy0 with Oracle just porting the database back end ?  G The danger is that ISVs will wait to see what their customers indend to D do, and customers waiting to see what ISVs intend to do. With nobodyF making formal decisions, the end result is that customers will not seeF ISV commitments and will decide to migrate off VMS, at which point the signal to ISVs will be clear.Y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:43:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Strange crash, Message-ID: <3CF46A52.BDE7CDFB@videotron.ca>  Q This morning, I woke up and my Vaxstation had done a reboot while I was sleeping.C  N I don't keep a dump file on it. But the ANA/ERROR revealed that there had been a bugcheck.l  5 First message was a "PORT HAS CLOSED VIRTUAL CIRCUIT"l   Next message was a u" 	"FATAL BUGCHECK  KA420 FW Rev #5"0 	"CLUEXIT - Node voluntarily exiting VAXcluster"   	Process name : NULL 	Process ID   : 00010000   The current mode was Kernel.    M My all mighty microvax II continued to purr without problems.  Looking at theOL SYSLOG sent by my router, there didn't seem to be any incoming call attempts4 to that machine in the minutes preceeding the crash.  K Should I be concerned about potential hackers accessing my machine from the-J internet, or would such a crash have shown an actual process name/pid (for( instance, web server, FTP, telnet etc) ?  K Since I was not on the machine at the time, I am a bit perplexed about what M would cause it to crash all by itself. Could it be the dust bunnies that woke>K up inside ? Or a power glitch large enough to mucck up that machine but not.G the MV-II which as a power controller below as well as the bigger power<
 supplies ?  A (the machine was logged in, with a few editing sessions running).t   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:32:09 -0500 (CDT)u From: sms@antinode.orgB Subject: Re: Sync on green with Elsa Gloria Synergy or Oxygen VX1?) Message-ID: <02052820320988@antinode.org>e  * From: ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell)  E > Sorry, I'm not much help on the SRM variables, but you can't run antA > Oxygen card in the 200 4/233 -- it requires ALPHA EV6 or later.e  E    Thanks for the reminder.  I'm pretty sure I've seen that somewhere F before, but I'd forgotten.  Actually, I got an Oxy VX1 and put it intoG an XP1000, moved its original Elsa to an AlpSta 200 4/233 running Tru64dE (with a (smaller but) more modern, multi-sync display), and moved itsyD healthy PBXGA into my VMS AlpSta 200 4/233 (to replace the one whichF failed recently), so I'm ok for the nonce, but the long-term prospects are less encouraging.i  D    After a little thought (always a dangerous thing), it became lessC clear how a card like the Elsa, lacking the handy DIP switch of theeH PBXGA, could be set to a suitable (fixed, non-VGA) frequency combination? without cooperative firmware in the computer, or even with it. t Everything's complicated.p  H    If the nice (old) display outlives all the suitable graphics cards, ID may need to look for an SPX upgrade for my VAXsta 3138/GPX, so it'll still have a purpose in life.m  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)pC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)/G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work),9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)i"             sms@provis.com  (work)   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 18:06:54 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>x# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 6 Message-ID: <20020528180654.31600.qmail@gacracker.org>  9 On 28 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:.G >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") F >wrote in message news:<00A0E8C7.5C4B81C6@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...   <snip> eO >> Note that the logic of this decision has zip, zero, nada, nothing to do withhN >> the relative quality or VMS-appropriateness of Purveyor vs. that of Apache.I >> Basically, if VMS is gonna be an ecommerce player at all it has to runh >> Apache - O >> even if some perfectly sensible sites find that WASD or OSU or Purveyor fit n >> better for them.g >> d
 >> -- Alan >> y >dJ >so you agree with the "free" crowd that running popular, free, "inferior"G >software is better than maybe having to buy something that actually is: >better?  # Earth calling Bob? Is Windows free?4  K Sheesh! You couldn't get a clue standing in a clue field wearing clue scent4 during clue mating season.  G I don't even think beating you about the head with a clue-by-four wouldm have any impact either.S  H FWIW the whole point is to make VMS marketable as a web platform. If youH can't see that then there really is no hope for you. If you don't get itD I'll look for some information on the word plonk that I can pass on.     Doc. -- >6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:57:44 +0200f2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2h; Message-ID: <3cf3d328.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>a  * Rick Barry (barry@star.zko.dec.com) wrote:9 > "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote... > > > ever since having set up CSWS 1.0 I have observed that the? > > web server becomes unresponsive now and then (once in three " > > days up to a few times a day). > K > For resolution of this problem (servers become unresponsive), I recommend-$ > that you contact Customer Support. >2H > The TCP/IP Services group is testing a fix for a shared socket problemH > which may address the problem you're seeing and they'll be able to get* > you a patch as soon as one is available. >aI > As Patrick mentions, ECO4 fixes a memory leak in socket structures, butD0 > the shared socket problem is a separate issue.  ? Thanks, Rick. Unfortunately I don't run Compaq TCP/IP Services. ? I'll try and contact Process Software support (although my post 7 in the TCPware newsgroup didn't trigger any responses).D   cu,u   Martin -- tF   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.detF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 18:05:56 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205281705.54568699@posting.google.com>/  { Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20020528180654.31600.qmail@gacracker.org>...-; > On 28 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:0I > >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")oH > >wrote in message news:<00A0E8C7.5C4B81C6@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>... > 	 > <snip> sQ > >> Note that the logic of this decision has zip, zero, nada, nothing to do withiP > >> the relative quality or VMS-appropriateness of Purveyor vs. that of Apache.K > >> Basically, if VMS is gonna be an ecommerce player at all it has to runm
 > >> Apache -tQ > >> even if some perfectly sensible sites find that WASD or OSU or Purveyor fit   > >> better for them.r > >>   > >> -- Alan > >>   > >tL > >so you agree with the "free" crowd that running popular, free, "inferior"I > >software is better than maybe having to buy something that actually is 
 > >better? > % > Earth calling Bob? Is Windows free?R > M > Sheesh! You couldn't get a clue standing in a clue field wearing clue scent  > during clue mating season. > I > I don't even think beating you about the head with a clue-by-four would  > have any impact either.i > J > FWIW the whole point is to make VMS marketable as a web platform. If youJ > can't see that then there really is no hope for you. If you don't get itF > I'll look for some information on the word plonk that I can pass on. >  > Doc.  E who said anything about windoze ... apache is unix based ... earth toiC doc!  you make vms marketable by providing a web platform that runse7 24 x 7 and isn't prone to the unix/linux cert syndrome!o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:39:31 GMT9L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 8 Message-ID: <00A0E9FF.77E16C78@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <d7791aa1.0205280956.6546170b@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0E8C7.5C4B81C6@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...-@ >> In article <d7791aa1.0205261819.5ca92e51@posting.google.com>,- >> bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:u >> : >> >F >> >this sounds alot like the problem we had w/tcpware and apache, andG >> >it got to the point where we had restarts every 5 minutes and aftersH >> >log analysis found out that broken pipes among other things were theG >> >culprit ... I thought a patch had been put out, but maybe it didn'tgH >> >do the trick ... that is why I told Q to buy Purveyor instead of theG >> >"what's popular" unix garbage, but to no avail ... looks like I wasA
 >> >right! >> FG >> The purpose of porting Apache and producing CSWS is to sell more VMSeG >> systems, or at least to avoid losing more VMS sales.  To the extent 2F >> that there is one, Apache is the industry-standard webserver.  WithH >> CSWS, Compaq could now say "not only do we have the industry-standardH >> webserver, but our own engineers support it" and counter some of the D >> opposition's points about a lack of software availability on VMS. >> IH >> (This is why, in my opinion, CSWS and Java are the most important newQ >> VMS features of the last five years.  With them, there's a selling propositioniJ >> that makes it at least possible to get new customers in the e-commerce K >> arena, whether or not sales and marketing follow through.  Without thoseDN >> features, sales and marketing start with one hand tied behind their backs.) >>  M >> Not a lot of people (with the exception of your operation, perhaps, but I vM >> think you've said you only buy hardware used or at fire sales) were buying P >> VMS systems to run Purveyor - certainly not enough to make it worth Process'sN >> while to keep Purveyor under development - and there's no reason to think a6 >> lot more would have started if Compaq picked it up. >>  N >> "Do you run Apache, the most popular webserver on the planet, with a lot ofF >> webmaster and developer training and books available?"  "No, but weO >> bought the rights to Purveyor, which wasn't popular enough to make it on itsaR >> own, and which you'll have to learn without any third-party support."  _That's_ >> an attractive proposition.  >> MO >> Note that the logic of this decision has zip, zero, nada, nothing to do with N >> the relative quality or VMS-appropriateness of Purveyor vs. that of Apache.R >> Basically, if VMS is gonna be an ecommerce player at all it has to run Apache -O >> even if some perfectly sensible sites find that WASD or OSU or Purveyor fit e >> better for them.n >> c
 >> -- Alan >> 2 >5J >so you agree with the "free" crowd that running popular, free, "inferior"G >software is better than maybe having to buy something that actually iss >better?  = Actually, I don't think that follows at all from what I said.2  E I was addressing your assertion that Compaq should have picked up andmJ maintained Purveyor.  Regardless of quality, regardless of what's actuallyM better for the customer, it wouldn't have been sensible for Compaq to do that * because it wouldn't have helped VMS sales.  J If you'd said "I _wish_ Compaq had picked up Purveyor" then I wouldn't be K arguing with you - you're entitled to wish it.  I just think you're saying tJ they _should have done_ something that doesn't actually make any sense forG them.  CSWS, while a technical effort, is essentially a marketing move;c6 Purveyor wouldn't have been any help in marketing VMS.  N (As to what I actually think: Free isn't necessarily inferior and is sometimesL distinctly superior - compare stability and code quality of, say, NetBSD to D Windows NT - and "costs money" doesn't mean "is better."  Free isn'tG necessarily superior, either.  I wouldn't ditch Oracle Rdb for MySQL; Il wouldn't ditch VMS for Linux.)   -- Alany  O ===============================================================================n0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056eM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210eO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:55:38 GMTt- From: "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@email.msn.com>e( Subject: Re: Units (was  USofA'an coins)7 Message-ID: <_NUI8.971$fT5.234610@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>t  . "Paul Hardy" <Paul@lsl.co.uk> wrote in message! news:XSx*7uipp@relay.lsl.co.uk...tH > Now I still have the punched cards somewhere, and I have a VMS Fortran0 > system to hand - anyone got a card reader? :^)  . You could always resort to the Mark 1 Eyeball.  I We used to have a card punch that would sometimes slip the ribbon off theiN track, so you'd be going through the deck and find that the printing along theN top would come and go as the ribbon aligned and slipped.  We always popped theI cover and pushed it into place before starting a dump to cards, so the IDeK cards were OK, but it pretty much excluded hand-sorting for a dropped deck.e  
     - Bill   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 13:00:28 -0700( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0205281200.31ae10da@posting.google.com>  e "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<ECGI8.1$433.131199@news.cpqcorp.net>...4H > I don't follow the logic, Didier, but I know people who are happy withM > Charon-VAX (and I'd be happy to try it). One big advantage of Charon-VAX isa* > that you can run the emulator on LINUX (H > http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/CHVX_Linux_lite.htm ). So, if youI > regard LINUX as the way to go, and if you're not comfortable  about theiJ > longevity of OpenVMS, you can still run highly-functional and much-loved9 > applications (such as ALL-IN-1) in a Windoze-free zone.a >  > bs > < > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message# > news:3CF298B5.12445E97@Free.fr...rC > > As HPAQ adverts for Charon-Vax, I guess it is the best product.l  F A few things to add.  SIMH VAX is very new.  The first offical releaseC was done about a month ago.  The development is done in the open soe> the pre-releases were visble for some time.  It is still beingF developed.  Currently it emulates only a MicroVAX III, I believe.  TheD CPU type says MicroVAX 3800/3900.  Hopefully DELQA emulation will be= added.  The source code to SIMH is under a BSD-style ("mostlyeC unresticted") license and is portable to Windows, various UNIX-liker? platforms including Linux and to VMS which means you can have aMD VMS/VAX virtual machine on a Alpha or VAX running VMS.  SIMH is slowF and there are bugs which keep you from using GCC optimization options.  A I don't have VMS for it yet, but maybe in a month or two I will. yE Here's SIMH booting NetBSD/vax on an IA32 platform.  The device namesI should be familiar.n   freebsd$ ./vax nbsd.ini    VAX simulator V2.9-9     KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7u Performing normal system tests.a@ 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..@ 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed.
 >>>b dua0: (BOOT/R5:0 DUA0)         2..a -DUA0h   1..0..    , >> NetBSD/vax boot [Aug 19 2001 05:57:49] <<$ >> Press any key to abort autoboot 0 nfs_open: must mount first.l& open netbsd.vax: Device not configured
 > boot netbsdH, 1171836+57000+194876+[85608+100942]=0x18921a8 [ preserving 186550 bytes of netbsd a.out symbol table ]0 Copyright (c) 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 20015     The NetBSD Foundation, Inc.  All rights reserved.r* Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993F     The Regents of the University of California.  All rights reserved.  7 NetBSD 1.5.2 (GENERIC) #7: Sun Aug 19 12:43:34 PDT 2001S&     matt@cougar.local:/u1/kobj/GENERIC   MicroVAX 3800/39000 cpu: KA655, CVAX microcode rev 6 Firmware rev 83 total memory = 16328 KBF avail memory = 12392 KBi- using 229 buffers containing 916 KB of memoryD mainbus0 (root)D ibus0 at mainbus0  uba0 at ibus0: Q22% dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 304 ipl 15 & uda0 at uba0 csr 172150 vec 774 ipl 15# mscpbus0 at uda0: version 3 model 3e! mscpbus0: DMA burst size set to 4e ra0 at mscpbus0 drive 0: RA92R ra1 at mscpbus0 drive 1: RD54  ra2 at mscpbus0 drive 2: RD54  rx0 at mscpbus0 drive 3: RX50L& rlc0 at uba0 csr 174400 vec 160 ipl 15 rl0 at rlc0 drive 0: RL01L rl1 at rlc0 drive 1: RL01  rl2 at rlc0 drive 2: RL01e rl3 at rlc0 drive 3: RL01v boot device: ra0 root on ra0a dumps on ra0b ra0: size 2940951 sectorsy root file system type: ffs6 swapctl: adding /dev/ra0b as swap device at priority 08 Automatic boot in progress: starting file system checks.. /dev/rra0a: file system is clean; not checking. /dev/rra0d: file system is clean; not checking Setting tty flags. Setting sysctl variables:e Starting network.e Hostname: atrocity$ add net 127.0.0.0: gateway 127.0.0.1 add net fe80::: gateway ::1  add net fec0::: gateway ::1 # add net ::ffff:0.0.0.0: gateway ::1e  add net ::224.0.0.0: gateway ::1  add net ::127.0.0.0: gateway ::1 add net ::0.0.0.0: gateway ::1  add net ::255.0.0.0: gateway ::1  add net 2002:e000::: gateway ::1  add net 2002:7f00::: gateway ::1  add net 2002:0000::: gateway ::1  add net 2002:ff00::: gateway ::1 add net ::0.0.0.0: gateway ::1 IPv6 mode: host0  Configuring network interfaces:. Building databases...e Starting syslogd.  Checking for core dump...s savecore: no core dump Mounting all filesystems...a Clearing /tmp. Checking quotas: done.- Setting securelevel: kern.securelevel: 0 -> 1y- Creating runtime link editor directory cache.3 Updating motd. starting local daemons:. Starting inetd.e Starting cron. Sun May 27 11:53:49 EDT 2001   NetBSD/vax (atrocity) (console)c   login:   ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 12:53:01 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?)3 Message-ID: <lSqYOfGKzEDi@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  x In article <HjJ5U5cimTON@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:e > In article <tH7ErfkdoAB$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: { >> In article <VYHx8mJO$QZo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:  >>> L >>> Given Nic's information below, and Bob's above, it looks the choices forI >>> people wishing to go from VMS to a Unix variant have a choice betweenIL >>> Linux or Solaris. What problems (from a VMS viewpoint) does Solaris have >>> that Linux does not ?  >> -F >>    Fewer choices of platform and less reliability in my experience.< >>    On the other hand I think Sun has a better C compiler. > J > Now _that's_ an interesting comment about reliability. I've just startedI > building up a Solaris system on a spare x86 system in order to get somesD > exposure to it, and although it has things that VMS users would beM > interested in (like printer forms management [*]) that Linux does not have,:K > I haven't been running it long enough to get a feeling about reliability.j > I > What kinds of reliability issues does Solaris have that Linux doesn't ?c >   G    I can't give anything but anecdotal evidence, but our Sun disks die,nF    and the OS crashes on silly things like a full user partition or anH    NTP hichough (most Solaris folks will tell you this really shouldn't %    happen, but it's repeatable here).s  E    I have had very little problems with Linux, from 0.99 running on aV1    386 through my kid's fairly current Linux PPC.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 May 2002 12:30:44 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e, Subject: RE: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins3 Message-ID: <Wg727s3LifXU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEOIFAAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: 7 > I wonder, does it come from latin, as in quid pro quot >   =    I always guessed that it had to do with five of something.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 16:58:52 -0400s  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: [Change topic]: USofA'an coinsl4 Message-ID: <1020528164800.359A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  % On 28 May 2002, Paul Repacholi wrote:m  ) > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  > H > > Don't try to buy milk with a 100 dollar bill at a 7-11 late at nightF > > either.  Memo to our internal travel office "Please do not provide= > > me with expense advances in denominations of 100 dollars"  >   F > > I was later told that successfully getting change from 100 dollars@ > > late at night was sometimes a prelude to armed robbery as itF > > indicates that the employees have immediate access to a reasonableH > > amount of cash. Therefore employees are instructed to say they can'tF > > change it.  In the UK I would expect perhaps "do you have anythingD > > smaller".  Not "we can't accept that under any circumstances" asG > > happened In Dallas.  In the end I had to go back to the hotel for a ! > > credit card just to buy milk.. > I > You offered Legal Tender, they declined it. Your milk, their problem...n& > (Be sure you have a witness though!)  < I'm sure the arresting officer would be very sympathetic and understanding... not.   < Witnesses are not enough.  Be sure to have it on video tape.= Especially the part where you "Resist Arrest" by impeding them- progress of the officer's club with you head.u  9 IANAL, but I think there is a limit on how large a bill a.7 store has to be willing to accept, legal tender or not. 8 I don't know if this is based on absolute value or value" in relation to the purchase price.  5 Many all-night stores and gas stations, especially inn9 high-crime areas, have signs saying the clerk has no moreM9 than $XX (usually under $50) available for making change.v7 Every time they accumulate more than that in cash, theyv5 are supposed to drop the excess through a slot into a  safe, which they can't open.   -- - John Santos- Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:30:29 GMT.* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: [Change topic]: USofA'an coinsh5 Message-ID: <280520021724577233%paul.anderson@hp.com>w  @ In article <1020528164800.359A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:b  ' > On 28 May 2002, Paul Repacholi wrote:A > @ > > You offered Legal Tender, they declined it. Your milk, their3 > > problem... (Be sure you have a witness though!). > 
 ...snip... > E > IANAL, but I think there is a limit on how large a bill a store has G > to be willing to accept, legal tender or not. I don't know if this is.E > based on absolute value or value in relation to the purchase price.r  E Just because a coin or bill is legal tender does not mean someone hasb6 to accept it.  See the US Treasury FAQ on the subject:  B    <http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.html>   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringr   Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.295 ************************ Is Windows free?R > M > Sheesh! You couldn't get a clue standing in a clue field wearing clue scent  > during clue mating season. > I > I don't even think beating you about the head with a clue-by-four would  > have any impact either.i > J > FWIW the whole point is to make VMS marketable as a web platform. If youJ > can't see that then there really is no hope for you. If you don't get                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    	ᄪ    
ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    
ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ     ᄪ    !ᄪ    "ᄪ    #ᄪ    $ᄪ    %ᄪ    &ᄪ    'ᄪ    (ᄪ    )ᄪ    *ᄪ    +ᄪ    ,ᄪ    -ᄪ    .ᄪ    /ᄪ    0ᄪ    1ᄪ    2ᄪ    3ᄪ    4ᄪ    5ᄪ    6ᄪ    7ᄪ    8ᄪ    9ᄪ    :ᄪ    ;ᄪ    <ᄪ    =ᄪ    >ᄪ    ?ᄪ    @ᄪ    Aᄪ    Bᄪ    Cᄪ    Dᄪ    Eᄪ    Fᄪ    Gᄪ    Hᄪ    Iᄪ    Jᄪ    Kᄪ    Lᄪ    Mᄪ    Nᄪ    Oᄪ    Pᄪ    Qᄪ    Rᄪ    Sᄪ    Tᄪ    Uᄪ    Vᄪ    Wᄪ    Xᄪ    Yᄪ    Zᄪ    [ᄪ    \ᄪ    ]ᄪ    ^ᄪ    _ᄪ    `ᄪ    aᄪ    bᄪ    cᄪ    dᄪ    eᄪ    fᄪ    gᄪ    hᄪ    iᄪ    jᄪ    kᄪ    lᄪ    mᄪ    nᄪ    oᄪ    pᄪ    qᄪ    rᄪ    sᄪ    tᄪ    uᄪ    vᄪ    wᄪ    xᄪ    yᄪ    zᄪ    {ᄪ    |ᄪ    }ᄪ    ~ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    ᄪ    