1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 29 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 296       Contents:2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins& Re: ALPHAPC164, 8x128MB SIMMS, success; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... : Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters? CONTROL T not working on Alpha" Re: CONTROL T not working on Alpha Re: End of an era. Re: Future of forms  HP EVA Storageworks and OpenVMS & HP internal document: VMS future plans* Re: HP internal document: VMS future plans* Re: HP internal document: VMS future plans* Re: HP internal document: VMS future plans Re: HP Storageworks  Re: HP Storageworks  HP swats at Gartner  Re: HP swats at Gartner  Re: HP swats at Gartner  Re: HP swats at Gartner  Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?@ Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???5 M.R.U. version 1.5 and TL891 in sequential split mode 9 Re: M.R.U. version 1.5 and TL891 in sequential split mode F Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...F Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...E Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... E Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... E Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... % Re: Next Generation IA64 test results % Re: Next Generation IA64 test results  Re: No new ALL-IN-1 > No new ALL-IN-1 (subject line changed to protect the innocent) Re: No new All-In-One  Re: No new Alll-In-One RE: No new Alll-In-One Re: No new Alll-In-One Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales OT: Dubbing # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) L Re: PMDF: access to from address in customer-supplied routine substitutions? Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  RE: RF74 HDA formatting. Re: RF74 HDA formatting.) Re: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture)  Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?  Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug? " Stopping Spoofing of News Messages Re: Strange crash  Re: Strange crash  Re: Strange crash  Re: Strange crash  Re: Strange crash  Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS) - Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash) 1 Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash) # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins " Re: [Change topic]: USofA'an coins  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:32:15 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? ' Message-ID: <3CF483FF.D73284DD@aaa.com>   4 OK, The yellow (shold have been green) Swedish stamp= "Tre Skilling Banco" from 1845 was sold for aprox $ 1.500.000 A last time is was sold. It wasn't *that* one you had, was it ? :-) $ Only one of these is know to exsist.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.      Tom Linden wrote:  > C > correction, just remembered, it was a Tre Skilling Banco, no idea  > what it was worth  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:22:06 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ; Subject: RE: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEEJFBAA.tom@kednos.com>   ? When I said lost, I unfortunately meant lost, 40 years ago. :-(    >-----Original Message----- . >From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]' >Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:32 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com< >Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? >  > 5 >OK, The yellow (shold have been green) Swedish stamp > >"Tre Skilling Banco" from 1845 was sold for aprox $ 1.500.000B >last time is was sold. It wasn't *that* one you had, was it ? :-)% >Only one of these is know to exsist.  >  >Jan-Erik Sderholm. >  >  >Tom Linden wrote: >>D >> correction, just remembered, it was a Tre Skilling Banco, no idea >> what it was worth >> >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 07:37 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) + Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins - Message-ID: <29MAY200207371987@gerg.tamu.edu>   1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...  }Carl Perkins wrote:F }> For example, starting in 1993 all bills except the $1 bill have hadI }> microprinting. The "line" around the portrait looks slightly ragged on K }> these because, if you look cloesely enough, it is actually microprinting 4 }> which says "United States of America" repeatedly. } K }The $100 dollar bill was revamped in 1995, put into circulation late 1995. N }That was the first one with the embedded strip and microfine printing, larger   This is not true.   H Perhaps you were not paying attention to what I said. The last versions D of the old design had these security features. It had microprinting.C It had an embeded plastic strip. Neither of these is obvious to the B casual observer, so they look pretty much exactly the same as they. did before unless you look for these features.  G If you don't believe me, perhaps you'll believe the US Federal Reserve: 7 www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/bulletin/2001/0901lead.pdf  , See page 7. The relevent bit goes like this:  0     In response to both the study's findings and2     independent work that the Federal Reserve con-5     ducted, the Department of the Treasury approved a 7     new-series design in 1990. The Series-1990 currency 7     incorporated a security thread and microprinting as 9     visual counterfeit-deterrent features that the public 7     could use to authenticate genuine currency and that 9     were difficult to replicate with reprographic imaging      systems.  0 Or perhaps the Bureau of Engraving and Printing:) http://www.bep.treas.gov/section.cfm/7/35 ) The relevant bits go something like this:   !   Pre-Existing Security Features       Security Thread I       A security thread is a thin thread or ribbon running through a bank E       note substrate. All 1990 series and later notes, except the $1, !       include this feature. [...]        Microprinting K       This print appears as a thin line to the naked eye, but the lettering G       easily can be read using a low-power magnifier. The resolution of E       most current copiers is not sufficient to copy such fine print.        [...] I       In 1990, 1993 and 1995 series notes, "The United States of America" B       is printed repeatedly in a line outside the portrait frame.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:40:52 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins 5 Message-ID: <1020529133233.4248A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   , On Tue, 28 May 2002, Robert Deininger wrote:  7 > In article <3CF2DEA3.25333AB2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  > M > >> The old-style notes were already very secure; counting machines in major 9 > >> banks catch the counterfeits the first time through.  > >    [...]   L > The studies done by the treasury department have not indicated that colorsG > are actually much help, at least when viewed by the human eye.  Fancy E > colors drive the cost of the notes up with little or no measureable H > benefit.  As printers get better, colors will be ever easier to fake. L > Some possible inks also tend to fail the durability tests.  Almost any inkJ > tends to fade with time and use, so worn notes would look "wrong" if you" > considered the colors important.  C I am pretty sure when someone first mentioned colored bills in this E thread, it had nothing to do with counterfeiting.  It was a usability F issue, not a security issue.  (Does that get this thread remotely back< on topic?)  Later someone else (JF?) claimed that color madeA counterfeiting more difficult.  This is obviously true if you are B using traditional plates to print bills; you need a separate plateE and different ink for each color.  I don't think it matters at all to D a color printer, though, which can already produce all the necessaryE colors by mixing CMY inks.  (Texture and diffraction effects would be  wrong, though.)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 05:06:59 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) / Subject: Re: ALPHAPC164, 8x128MB SIMMS, success = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205290406.30977879@posting.google.com>   ^ lbohan@spamless..dbc.com wrote in message news:<96n7fu0d11p1aq3jtmtgq0dn141s1n2gc8@4ax.com>...F > (this posting mostly for benefit of folks searching USEnet archives) > - > Just recently, I had good sucess getting a  " > Digital AlphaPC164 based system / > (a PC164 exactly, not a PC164LX, nor PC164SX) 3 > to recognize a gig of memory, via 8 128 MB SIMMS    - Yay!. I'm running 8 * 32. What speed are your - SIMMs? - you set the jumper to interleave for 	 256 bits?   + Where did you find the 128MB SIMMs? I don't  imagine they are common.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:53:52 +0000 (UTC) ( From: "Bill Sticker" <nospam@nospam.com>D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work.../ Message-ID: <ad1tu0$8b1$1@helle.btinternet.com>   H Someone sent me a link with absolutely loads of VMS jobs in the US. OnlyJ problem is, getting a Visa to work there because they are mostly permanent  jobs. Anyone care to trade info?  > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message6 news:BCRI8.125135$9F5.7197861@typhoon.austin.rr.com...+ > Bob Ceculski (bob@instantwhip.com) wrote: / > : Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote in message : > : news:<OF71BF52E2.D90AA93B-ON00256BC2.0042412B@btyp>...K > : > Probably fairly futile advertising the fact here, but isn't that what   > : > 'networking' is all about? > : > 	 > : > ;^D  > : > 0 > : > Anyway, unemployed from the end of June... > : > I > : > Someone said to me last night 'there's always a light at the end of  the : > : > tunnel', thing is, I can't find the tunnel entrance. > : > < > : > Still, every silver lining has a cloud and all that... > : >  > : > Cheers > : > 
 > : > Steve S  > : >  > : B > : maybe it's time for you and other unemployed vms lovers to get? > : out of England!  After all, if a vms job came up in another @ > : decent country (i.e. US), I would grab it in a heartbeat ... > : J > Just don't look for many VMS or any IT-related jobs in the Houston area.J > I've seen some VMS jobs in Saudi Arabia at www.lesliecorp.com, a HoustonL > placement firm (no relation), but they required prior military experience. > I > CNN had a report last week about summer jobs for high school kids being G > few and far between, because the jobs had been taken by college kids, 
 > and adults.  > J > --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:16:21 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...( Message-ID: <3CF48E66.DF821C3@Omond.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:   @ > maybe it's time for you and other unemployed vms lovers to get= > out of England!  After all, if a vms job came up in another > > decent country (i.e. US), I would grab it in a heartbeat ...  1 Bob, please do not assume that the UK is England. / The UK consists of a lot more than just England 8 (I'll leave it you to make the effort to learn what does constitute the UK).   9 Also, some of us would rather not work/live in the USofA.   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 07:22:28 -0700- From: tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...= Message-ID: <9f261edc.0205290622.6f1fc769@posting.google.com>   O Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message news:<3CF48E66.DF821C3@Omond.net>...  > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > B > > maybe it's time for you and other unemployed vms lovers to get? > > out of England!  After all, if a vms job came up in another @ > > decent country (i.e. US), I would grab it in a heartbeat ... > 3 > Bob, please do not assume that the UK is England. 1 > The UK consists of a lot more than just England : > (I'll leave it you to make the effort to learn what does > constitute the UK).   E A common misconception anogst Americans. Even CNN were baffled by the D UK women's curling team at the recent Winter Olympics. They creditedC the win to 'England', despite the fact that all 4 (or 5) members of A the team were 'our Caledonian cousins'. Bet they were happy about  that...   B Having said all that, an amazing amount of UK people seem to thinkC that Florida is in California. Or haven't worked out the difference 1 between Washington, DC & the state of Washington.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 09:27:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...3 Message-ID: <VunfiCXrueqy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <9f261edc.0205290622.6f1fc769@posting.google.com>, tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) writes:   D > Having said all that, an amazing amount of UK people seem to thinkE > that Florida is in California. Or haven't worked out the difference 3 > between Washington, DC & the state of Washington.   D We doubly used the name as retribution for you burning the first one during the war of 1812 :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:08:24 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...& Message-ID: <3CF4EEE8.4030701@iee.org>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  F > We doubly used the name as retribution for you burning the first one > during the war of 1812 :-)    , Didn't we burn it in the first place because5 we thought it was that place in Tyne and Wear :-) :-)    Antonio      --     --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:32:01 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...' Message-ID: <3CF4F471.472B7D14@vcu.edu>    Chris Bardell wrote: > Q > Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message news:<3CF48E66.DF821C3@Omond.net>...  > > Bob Ceculski wrote:V > >d   chainsaw...o    D > Having said all that, an amazing amount of UK people seem to thinkE > that Florida is in California. Or haven't worked out the differencee3 > between Washington, DC & the state of Washington.   G There was a recent article in rec.humor.funny one joke a day news wheredH NASA said the shuttle stopped in california on it's way back to earth... so,e- California is really a separate world...  ;-)S  ' yup, it was an official NASA release...n   jimK   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:49:58 +0000s  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comD Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...: Message-ID: <OF582EA29C.C6951C4F-ON00256BC8.005C4F6F@btyp>  I Sorry Bob, done that living overseas thing before, and here I am, back ins the UK!   
 Reason being?a   I LOVE IT HERE!k  ) I'm sure I can scrape a living somehow...?   ;^Dn   Cheers   Steve Sc        < bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) on 05/28/2002 05:52:23 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:o bcc:E From:      bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), 28 May 2002, 5:52 p.m.O Contact: Contact:  ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...a    + Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote in messageu6 news:<OF71BF52E2.D90AA93B-ON00256BC2.0042412B@btyp>...G > Probably fairly futile advertising the fact here, but isn't that what  > 'networking' is all about? >  > ;^DP >o, > Anyway, unemployed from the end of June... > I > Someone said to me last night 'there's always a light at the end of thes6 > tunnel', thing is, I can't find the tunnel entrance. >a8 > Still, every silver lining has a cloud and all that... >F > Cheers >u	 > Steve Su >f  > maybe it's time for you and other unemployed vms lovers to get; out of England!  After all, if a vms job came up in another < decent country (i.e. US), I would grab it in a heartbeat ...      F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasdG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,e$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedoK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.A  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.a  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,sD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:37:34 +0200c) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> C Subject: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?r/ Message-ID: <3CF4772E.3090904@xs4all.nospam.nl>    John Santos wrote:( > On 28 May 2002, Bill McLaughlin wrote: >  > G >>Hello all. I recently bought a DECserver 90TL to replace my DECservereH >>700 due to the amount of power used and heat generated by the 700. TheF >>700 had DB25's while the 90TL has 8 pin telco-style (RJ12?) ports. IH >>used to use these all the time with BN27G cables and H8585-?? adaptersD >>but now I am having trouble finding a reasonably priced source forF >>these. The going rate for the adapters at the websites I've found soG >>far is around $10, which would put the cost at $80, not including thee9 >>cables. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced source?o >> >>Thanks in advance. >> >>Bill McLaughlin  >  > @ > I take it you want to connect your existing DB25 cables to the > RJ45 (?) jacks on the DS90TL?  > G > I've seen, at places like U-DO-IT electronics in Needham MA (just offoD > Rt. 128), and maybe at MicroCenter, connect-it-yourself RJ-to-DB25D > adapters.  They consist of a shell, an 8-pin RJ jack prewired to 8= > pins, and an empty DB25 plug.  You insert the 8 pins in theaB > appropriate holes in the DB25 plug and snap on the shell to makeB > whatever adapter you need.  You would then plug this into the RJA > jacks on the DS90TL using a 8-wire RJ cable.  I think any shorthA > cat5 ethernet cable would work.  (You would wire up the adapter0B > differently depending on if you got straight-through, cross-over? > or Telco-style USOC cables.)  I think the adapters cost about B > $5 each, and I think you can get cheap ethernet patch cables for > about $3.  Not much cheaper.  G There is a problem with these adapters. On the RJ45, the Transmit Data aE Ground and the Received Data Ground wires are separate, where on the R DB25 or DB9 they are not.aD Have a look at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/padapters.html, ' specifically the H8585 series adapters.t   HTH,  	 Bart Zorn0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:03:08 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>dC Subject: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters? ' Message-ID: <3CF4D18C.6AEA52E3@vcu.edu>w  G we use black box corp for most of our stuff, but it is a little pricey, = but the flip side is that in my case, it's a one-stop-shop...   . i'm not paid by black box, i wish i was... ;-)   Jim:   Bill McLaughlin wrote: > G > Hello all. I recently bought a DECserver 90TL to replace my DECserver>H > 700 due to the amount of power used and heat generated by the 700. TheF > 700 had DB25's while the 90TL has 8 pin telco-style (RJ12?) ports. IH > used to use these all the time with BN27G cables and H8585-?? adaptersD > but now I am having trouble finding a reasonably priced source forF > these. The going rate for the adapters at the websites I've found soG > far is around $10, which would put the cost at $80, not including theD9 > cables. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced source?9 >  > Thanks in advance. >  > Bill McLaughlina   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:36:50 GMT2 From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG C Subject: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters? 0 Message-ID: <00A0EA7C.CAB15348@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <3CF42523.236A478F@YouKnowWhere.com>, "Atlant G. Schmidt" <Atlant.Schmidt@YouKnowWhere.com> writes: >c >e >Bill McLaughlin wrote:o >,H >> Hello all. I recently bought a DECserver 90TL to replace my DECserverI >> 700 due to the amount of power used and heat generated by the 700. TheaG >> 700 had DB25's while the 90TL has 8 pin telco-style (RJ12?) ports. IrI >> used to use these all the time with BN27G cables and H8585-?? adapters E >> but now I am having trouble finding a reasonably priced source forsG >> these. The going rate for the adapters at the websites I've found soiH >> far is around $10, which would put the cost at $80, not including the: >> cables. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced source? >r; >Does the 90TL really use RJ45 connectors (like 10baseT) ore7 >does it use the evil DEC "MMJ" (Modified Modular Jack)b8 >connectors with the locking tab offset from the center?  < The 90TL uses 8 pin modular connectors.  The 90L and L+ used( the MMJ connectors -- evil or otherwise.  ; FYI, I knew of a company that thought that MMJ was evil andp< decided to wire their office space with normal center-tabbed< 6 wire modular connectors and used MOD-TAP adaptors.  During; one occasion of an office rearrangement, somebody connected = a wire from the terminal server (a 128 port Datability Vista)e< to a 6 wire modular connector that was not for terminal com-= munications.  It was for telephone communications!  The first/< call to the number associated with that connection fried the= Vista.  Had MMJ been used, there would have been NO confusione
 and NO smoke.      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMb            95   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" d   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 07:44:20 -0700, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin)C Subject: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?o= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0205290644.209f211d@posting.google.com>y  
 VAXman wrote: E >In article <3CF42523.236A478F@YouKnowWhere.com>, "Atlant G. Schmidt"S* ><Atlant.Schmidt@YouKnowWhere.com> writes: >> >> >>Bill McLaughlin wrote: >>? >>> Hello all. I recently bought a DECserver 90TL to replace my2	 DECserver1F >>> 700 due to the amount of power used and heat generated by the 700. The:F >>> 700 had DB25's while the 90TL has 8 pin telco-style (RJ12?) ports. I A >>> used to use these all the time with BN27G cables and H8585-??E adaptersF >>> but now I am having trouble finding a reasonably priced source forE >>> these. The going rate for the adapters at the websites I've foundi soE >>> far is around $10, which would put the cost at $80, not including  the.; >>> cables. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced source?i >>< >>Does the 90TL really use RJ45 connectors (like 10baseT) or8 >>does it use the evil DEC "MMJ" (Modified Modular Jack)9 >>connectors with the locking tab offset from the center?p  = >The 90TL uses 8 pin modular connectors.  The 90L and L+ usedp) >the MMJ connectors -- evil or otherwise.t  < >FYI, I knew of a company that thought that MMJ was evil and= >decided to wire their office space with normal center-tabbedm= >6 wire modular connectors and used MOD-TAP adaptors.  Duringe< >one occasion of an office rearrangement, somebody connected> >a wire from the terminal server (a 128 port Datability Vista)= >to a 6 wire modular connector that was not for terminal com-l> >munications.  It was for telephone communications!  The first= >call to the number associated with that connection fried thet> >Vista.  Had MMJ been used, there would have been NO confusion >and NO smoke.     >--k7 >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001    n VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >           6 >  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"    Thanks for all the replies.   F I agree about the MMJ's except for one thing-- when the RS423 standardD came out, I wish Digital wouldn't have decided to abbreviate it to 6@ conductors instead of 8 and leave out the extra control signals.F Anyone here every try to get a modem to work when plugged into an MMJ? Yuck!g  F I remember one place I worked where it was decided that even though weF had all DECconnect MMJ wiring in the computer room and wiring closets,C they would use normal RJ11's in the offices to save money. So, eacheD office had a cheapo wall plate with two 6 conductor phone jacks, oneD for phone and one for data. Our Digital field service guy was always= mentioning that he had never seen a site that had such a high 1 incidence of blown comm boards in their VT-320's.5  D As for Black Box, I have ordered many things from them at work. They1 are a little pricey but their stuff always works.e  D I had already found the websites with pinouts for the adapters but ID was hoping to avoid building connectors. I figured maybe there wouldC be a surplus somewhere since it's such an old product. I guess I'lln have to build some.    Bill McLaughlin    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:53:53 -0400t2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>C Subject: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?a. Message-ID: <3CF4F991.2C52A647@mindspring.com>  > Of course, if DEC had chosen the RJ45 instead of the evil MMJ, you'd have gotten:  1   o Most of the same idiot-proofing benefits (1),N  ?   o Compatibility with all the pre-existing Mod-Tap gear, *AND*g  !  o  Two more modem-control lines.   ? Instead, you got an extremely proprietary standard which is now A difficult to support because it's hard to find the connectors anda the crimping tools.t    But it's your choice, I suppose.   Atlant    : (1) Because idiots couldn't plug RJ45 line cords into RJ117       telephone jacks, and plugging in an RJ11-equippeda8       telephone into an RJ45 data jack does no harm, and>       you'd have to really be a creative idiot to plug an RJ11=       line cord from an RJ11 phone jack to an RJ45 data jack,p       AND   9      inter-plugging an RJ45 data line and xbaseT Ethernett      line is harmless.        AND  4     While there are RJ45-equipped phones and modems,6      perhaps they're not operated by the same level of9      idiots. Also, some don't use 120 vac ringing currentq5      and some won't apply ringing current unless theyt      detect an instrument.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 12:01:11 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?t3 Message-ID: <A+Zp8bJB6Btq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <e9cbc4f2.0205290644.209f211d@posting.google.com>, mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) writes:  H > I remember one place I worked where it was decided that even though weH > had all DECconnect MMJ wiring in the computer room and wiring closets,E > they would use normal RJ11's in the offices to save money. So, each F > office had a cheapo wall plate with two 6 conductor phone jacks, oneF > for phone and one for data. Our Digital field service guy was always? > mentioning that he had never seen a site that had such a highr3 > incidence of blown comm boards in their VT-320's.e  C    We had something similar, except all the RJ11 jacks were labeleddG    PHONE or DATA.  We also has a digital phone system, which didn't use-    a 70V ring pulse.  J    Data however, isn't always data.  My whole LAVC got upset one day when E    after an office move one of the programmers sent a carriage returnf    over the ethernet.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:01:08 -0700n9 From: "Weiner, Howard (Howie)" <Howiew@ci.portland.or.us> ' Subject: CONTROL T not working on AlphasH Message-ID: <ED06176444B7D511886300D0B70809FD03300A@ecntexchg.boec.city>  3 We are migrating from VAX VMS 7.1 to Alpha VMS 7.3.t, CONTROL T produces a beep, but nothing else." I miss my one line process status.F I am using a VT420 (ok, I'm a dinosaur) via a DEC 700 terminal server.7 I have the BROADCAST terminal characteristic turned on.a SET CONTROL=T has no effect. Any guesses on solving this? Thanks in advance.G (I would have put TIA, but I actually have the time to spell that out.)t   Howie Weiner howiew@ci.portland.or.us   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:18:38 -0400C- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> + Subject: Re: CONTROL T not working on Alphaa5 Message-ID: <ad32hf$u6qeo$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>l  D "Weiner, Howard (Howie)" <Howiew@ci.portland.or.us> wrote in messageB news:ED06176444B7D511886300D0B70809FD03300A@ecntexchg.boec.city...5 > We are migrating from VAX VMS 7.1 to Alpha VMS 7.3.e. > CONTROL T produces a beep, but nothing else.$ > I miss my one line process status.H > I am using a VT420 (ok, I'm a dinosaur) via a DEC 700 terminal server.9 > I have the BROADCAST terminal characteristic turned on.s > SET CONTROL=T has no effect. > Any guesses on solving this?   >...  1 CTRL-T should work fine on AXP 7.3, it does here.a   Any guesses, - Try SET TERM/INQG - Try sending mail to your self to see if the broadcast message appears = - Try from a different terminal that is not on that DECServerfK - Try BACKUP [000000...]*.* NL:X.X/SAVE and press CTRL-T (even if CTRL-T ise9 disabled at the command level then BACKUP will enable it) K - Try this little procedure and see if it returns "You pressed: CTRL_T_KEY"g $ create wait_for_key.com3 $DECK., $ write sys$output "Hit any key to continue"# $ assign sys$command sys$input/useri7 $ edit/tpu/nosection/nodisplay/command=wait_for_key.tpu2 $EOD $ create wait_for_key.tpue mykey := read_key ; ' message ('You pressed: ' + str(mykey));W quit (off) ; $EOD $! $ SET NOCONTROL=T- $ @wait_for_keyi  H If it does not say that then something is grabbing your CTRL-T before it+ gets to the Alpha (i.e. the DECServer (??))m     -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:09:52 -0500 : From: "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov> Subject: Re: End of an era.a+ Message-ID: <ad2t9g$psd$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>i  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagee9 news:20020521153303.4869.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com...a > Not here !!!!e > 4 > The SAP  project is late. A delay of about 2 years/ > My OpenVMS systems will be migrated in 2004 !k) > Maybe SAP thinks to develop a MySAP fors > OpenVMS/Itanium-  I If my memory serves me correctly, long before SAP R/3, there was SAP R/2,-J which ran on VMS.  SAP abandoned VMS when they brought out R/3, which runs on many flavors of UNIX.  L Perhaps DII-COE will allow software vendors who cannot justify the cost of aF real VMS implementation to support their products on VMS in UNIX mode?  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541  scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 02 19:53:02 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)i Subject: Re: Future of forms) Message-ID: <ivwsJPg$QjdR@elias.decus.ch>.  _ In article <87n0ulrzh2.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:c/ > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> writes:a > F >> Lastly, as for character cell support, we still do most of our work> >> with termination emulation into our systems.  You can knockE >> character sex as not being 'sexy' but that fact is, folks who knownG >> how to type hate taking their hands off the keyboard to screw aroundnG >> with a mouse, so our shop prefers the current systems we are running 3 >> when compared to the alternatives of 100% GUI...  > C > Does ANYONE have a Java implementation that can get anywhere nearl, > the speed of a expert data entry operator? > G Excellent question. On that note I occasionally have to use a web baseddB application, which appears impossible to use without a mouse. EachE line of data you have to click on <OK>, and it refreshes the complete_ screen._  B 20 years ago I used to complain about complete screen refreshes on8 IBM block mode terminals. This is definitely worse IMHO.  A And yes, I used to work with a data entry expert who could handle ? type ahead on VTs - she was regularly 2 or three screens ahead.a> She got most annoyed by the little X which appeared on the IBM0 ones which meant system busy, you can't proceed.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 10:01:58 -0700- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)d( Subject: HP EVA Storageworks and OpenVMS= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0205290901.5e190bd1@posting.google.com>G   Hello,  , Does anyone have EVA with OpenVMS installed?  " If so, what were your experiences?   How was your transition?   TIA,   JMOD   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 07:46:07 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)/ Subject: HP internal document: VMS future planss3 Message-ID: <$xjzXnT8xl0A@eisner.encompasserve.org>D  D According to an HP, IBM "manipulated Gartner" and HP has prepared an7 internal document as a response, which can be found at:i  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.htmo  G Some worrying quotes: (I've added IBM: and HP: to compensate for tryingpI to display a HTML marked up document in plain text). My comments in []'s.T  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------w  F IBM: Some customers must migrate immediately to respond dynamically to changes in their businessr  H HP: This is total nonsense! HP will be selling and enhancing Tru64 UNIX,C OpenVMS, and AlphaServer through 2006, and supporting through 2011.nA Customers purchased these systems to support their business needs > today. These servers will still be capable of supporting theirB businesses long beyond 2004, regardless of the changes in business needs.  A [This is the most worrying of the comments as it appears to state F that VMS will only be enhanced until 2006. Note that it does not state VMS on Alpha, just VMS]     I IBM: HP believes in one-size-fits all while IBM provides the best fit for  each customer's needsu   HP:    [cut]s  > HP recognizes that one size does not fit all. That's why HP isE focusing on UNIX, Linux and Windows for the majority of applications, A with specialized operating systems (like OpenVMS and NonStop) for F special markets. While IBM has to try to spin their legacy overlappingE (proprietary) architectures into some sort of positive message, HP is @ taking action to consolidate and modernize its operating systems9 around industry-leading functionality and open standards.l  I [Well, that ends VMS's chances of been pushed for general use, unless youe& happen to be in one of target markets]  J IBM: Application availability is an issue for Tru64 and Open VMS customers  I HP: Most Tru64 UNIX customers are running one of the over 6000 64-bit ISVtB applications supported on Tru64. Of these applications, all but 20E ISVs are supported on HP-UX today. That means a seamless migration on3F their own timetable for the vast majority of customers. Most customersA will wait to migrate until Tru64 UNIX and TruCluster features are.D built into HP-UX and performance of the Itanium platform exceeds the> performance of Alpha. That is expected to occur in the 2005-06E timeframe. In the meantime, Alpha customers can continue to enjoy the;2 features and benfits of the platform without risk.   [cut]n  I [And not a single word about VMS in HP's response above or in the rest of E the response. Regarding the 2005-2006 timeframe, it's not clear aboveeJ if that's the length of time it's going to take to merge in Tru64 features1 or if Itanium won't outperform Alpha until then.]u  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------   Simon.   -- rB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:41:15 -0500 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>-3 Subject: Re: HP internal document: VMS future plans11 Message-ID: <ad2lst$of8$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>c  J I've sent this (sans names, etc) to Scott Stallard.  Let's see what he has to say on this matter.   -- Dave...n  > An honest man in politics shines more than he would elsewhere. -----Mark TwainY  G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote inl5 message news:$xjzXnT8xl0A@eisner.encompasserve.org...eF > According to an HP, IBM "manipulated Gartner" and HP has prepared an9 > internal document as a response, which can be found at:s >e) > http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.html >eI > Some worrying quotes: (I've added IBM: and HP: to compensate for tryingbK > to display a HTML marked up document in plain text). My comments in []'s.a >t  <snip>e   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:43:12 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l3 Subject: Re: HP internal document: VMS future plansc; Message-ID: <01KIB4366U7896WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > HP: This is total nonsense! HP will be selling and enhancing Tru64 UNIX,E > OpenVMS, and AlphaServer through 2006, and supporting through 2011.hC > Customers purchased these systems to support their business needsa@ > today. These servers will still be capable of supporting theirD > businesses long beyond 2004, regardless of the changes in business > needs. > C > [This is the most worrying of the comments as it appears to state H > that VMS will only be enhanced until 2006. Note that it does not state > VMS on Alpha, just VMS]s  I Be happy that HP responded so positively at all and don't get paranoid!  hI The above is probably due to a substitution (VMS on ALPHA) to (VMS).  If tD you REALLY believe they will port it to Itanium but not continue to 8 develop it, then I have some great property to sell you.  K > [Well, that ends VMS's chances of been pushed for general use, unless youe( > happen to be in one of target markets]  H No, it means that that is their current strategy.  HP has already shown I that it can respond positively to intelligent, constructive criticism of B its VMS strategy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:54:57 GMTw# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>F3 Subject: Re: HP internal document: VMS future planshJ Message-ID: <lR6J8.142276$t8_.132814@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote in 5 message news:$xjzXnT8xl0A@eisner.encompasserve.org...bF > According to an HP, IBM "manipulated Gartner" and HP has prepared an9 > internal document as a response, which can be found at:t >N) > http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.htm  > I > Some worrying quotes: (I've added IBM: and HP: to compensate for tryinggK > to display a HTML marked up document in plain text). My comments in []'s.  >, >iK > HP: Most Tru64 UNIX customers are running one of the over 6000 64-bit ISVnD > applications supported on Tru64. Of these applications, all but 20G > ISVs are supported on HP-UX today. That means a seamless migration ondH > their own timetable for the vast majority of customers. Most customersC > will wait to migrate until Tru64 UNIX and TruCluster features aretF > built into HP-UX and performance of the Itanium platform exceeds the@ > performance of Alpha. That is expected to occur in the 2005-06G > timeframe. In the meantime, Alpha customers can continue to enjoy theA4 > features and benfits of the platform without risk.  I Just because an app is ported to n-different unix environments, that doestH not mean that a 'seamless migration' is possible. There is often just asJ much behind the scenes work involved by the customer to move from one unixL to another as there is to move from unix to VMS. It all depends on the levelI of isolation from the o/s that the app and the supporting tools and adminaL tools provide.Not to mention patch issues for the different o/s'es involved.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:46:29 +0200n) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>h Subject: Re: HP Storageworks- Message-ID: <3CF47945.50808@xs4all.nospam.nl>t   JF Mezei wrote:c/ > Saw a TV ad on CNN from CDW, a wintel vendor.  > K > It was extoling the "HP Storageworks SAN array" and while showing it, yout$ > could clearly see the Compaq logo. > I > Interesting that the Storageworks is being marketed right away as an HPaL > branded product while Compaq's PCs continue to be marketed as Compaq ones.  G In Lyon I heard an explanation for the fact that both HP and Compaq PC c9 will be marketed: in this way you get double shelf space!   	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:46:01 GMTd1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>  Subject: Re: HP Storageworks8 Message-ID: <tY4J8.1904$fT5.472856@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  6 "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message' news:3CF47945.50808@xs4all.nospam.nl...  > JF Mezei wrote:i1 > > Saw a TV ad on CNN from CDW, a wintel vendor.u > >gI > > It was extoling the "HP Storageworks SAN array" and while showing it,  youa& > > could clearly see the Compaq logo. > >oK > > Interesting that the Storageworks is being marketed right away as an HPaH > > branded product while Compaq's PCs continue to be marketed as Compaq ones.c >RH > In Lyon I heard an explanation for the fact that both HP and Compaq PC; > will be marketed: in this way you get double shelf space!s  & StorageWorks lives on an HP sub-brand.  L Compaq PCs live on as a brand. Mo' better shelf space is one reason, anotherL is brand preference. Apparently there are a lot of folks who like Presarios.  G In any event, on those rare nights that I worship the glass teat, therehJ almost invariably is a Compaq peecee ad on Fox News. Same peecee ad as was4 being run pre-merger. No reference whatsoever to HP.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:27:10 -0600 (MDT) " From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> Subject: HP swats at GartnerG Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0205290621380.29521-100000@athena.csdco.com>y  > from http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.htm - two bits below:  = Alpha, Open VMS and Himalaya products dead-end after 2 years g  J Although the Gartner speaker acknowledged HP roadmaps go out farther, theyF feel that HP will not honor the roadmaps beyond two years. Since 1995,I Gartner has consistently claimed that AlphaServer customers urgently need G to migrate within the next two years. They have consistently been wrongsF and they are wrong on this prediction too. Bring up the fact that this> Gartner analyst was paid big money by IBM to say what he said.    H Gartner incorrectly made it appear as if Open VMS was going to disappearG after 2002, when in fact Open VMS will be ported to Itanium (it will bec supported far longer).   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>  Subject: Re: HP swats at Gartner> Message-ID: <20020529124321.645.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>  & Just the STUPIDs believe in Gartner ! 4 The problem is almost 70%  of the CIO are STUPIDs...     Regards    FC o' --- John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> wrote:  > 4 > from http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.htm - two
 > bits below:  > 6 > Alpha, Open VMS and Himalaya products dead-end after
 > 2 years  > . > Although the Gartner speaker acknowledged HP > roadmaps go out farther, theys5 > feel that HP will not honor the roadmaps beyond twol > years. Since 1995,3 > Gartner has consistently claimed that AlphaServeri > customers urgently need 1 > to migrate within the next two years. They havev > consistently been wrongn5 > and they are wrong on this prediction too. Bring up- > the fact that this2 > Gartner analyst was paid big money by IBM to say > what he said.w >  > 3 > Gartner incorrectly made it appear as if Open VMSi > was going to disappear5 > after 2002, when in fact Open VMS will be ported toc > Itanium (it will beg > supported far longer)a >      =====T ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil' fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com,   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:13:54 GMTwL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")  Subject: Re: HP swats at Gartner8 Message-ID: <00A0EA60.78EE7CE9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  l In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.0205290621380.29521-100000@athena.csdco.com>, John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> writes: >o? >from http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.htm - two bits below:0 >0> >Alpha, Open VMS and Himalaya products dead-end after 2 years  >oK >Although the Gartner speaker acknowledged HP roadmaps go out farther, they G >feel that HP will not honor the roadmaps beyond two years. Since 1995, J >Gartner has consistently claimed that AlphaServer customers urgently needH >to migrate within the next two years. They have consistently been wrongG >and they are wrong on this prediction too. Bring up the fact that thise? >Gartner analyst was paid big money by IBM to say what he said. E >What can I do if my customer wants to call in IBM for an evaluation?    >nI >Gartner incorrectly made it appear as if Open VMS was going to disappear(H >after 2002, when in fact Open VMS will be ported to Itanium (it will be >supported far longer) >c  G (1) JF may find quite alarming the bit in the leaked internal document eG where what I think is sloppy wording (just says "support through 2011")sJ makes it possible to interpret as though they were dropping VMS support inI in 2011, but I think there's enough context that it's clear that they're o% talking about AlphaServers, not OSes.)  K (2) I'm moderately pleased that VMS is given equal prominence with Nonstop,hJ and moderately sad that it's ranked as for "special markets" - but I neverF really thought, with their given emphasis on "industry-standard", thatK there was going to be a serious effort to put VMS back on desktops.  I justoG hope that the EDU programs continue long and cheap enough that I get to-@ keep using it as a departmental server system and for scientific applications.    (3) I quite like this:  I Obviously, customers are free to do what they want to do. Try to find out G the driving reasons for the call. Is it to stimulate competition so the2K customer can get better prices from HP? Is it because the customer is trulyAG unhappy with their existing AlphaServer installation? Is it because theeK customer is worried for the future of the platform? In all three cases, trytI to schedule an architectural transition workshop with HP before IBM comesSG in. This will not only evaluate present and future needs, but will also I help explain the tools and assistance available from HP. If a customer is J worried about the future, then they are probably reading too much into theF competitive FUD. Identify what specific concerns they have and work toF                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^E overcome them. Call in an executive if necessary. We may also want tolE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.B schedule our own regional customer concalls to reassure customers.B ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    K (This was directed to partners (which I presume includes resellers) as welldK as HP sales.  SO it sounds like HP understands both the need to counter FUDkD and the need to get some high-rank face-time to reassure customers.)   -- Alanh    O ===============================================================================,0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:54:44 GMTm1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>   Subject: Re: HP swats at Gartner8 Message-ID: <UY5J8.1938$fT5.492343@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagey8 news:20020529124321.645.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com...' > Just the STUPIDs believe in Gartner !T6 > The problem is almost 70%  of the CIO are STUPIDs...  ' Good point. The Emperor has no clothes.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:17:27 +0200S From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? & Message-ID: <3CF47277.2030609@home.nl>   Let's see what we've got:c  ! Itanic performance so far stinks.eD Several major suppliers of "industry standard" servers have stopped ? further development of Itanic servers, at least for the moment.eF Rumours are Intel is developing a 32/64 bit Pentium to counter the 64  bit AMD Hammer.-I There has been (and maybe still is) a 64 bit Alpha version of M$ Windooz.rF Now we get presentations about Alpha EV8 and EV9 designs, but why? Is F Intel/Compaq/HP interested in showing the world how great a processor I design the Alpha is, and how stupid they are not developing this product n any further?   Conclusion:iI Could it be we are witnessing a very carefull implementation of a plan-B rI scenario ? (64 bit Pentium/Hammer for the desktop, Alpha for servers and y high-end workstations ?)  I Maybe HP management can look beyond M$ Office stuff and Solitaire, since -< their focus always was on mid-range systems instead of PC's.  % There is always hope, isn't there :-)a  C Oh yes, contrary to popular believe, Compaq did not sell the Alpha l' technology to Intel, but licensed it !!p   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:09:08 GMTm# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?eI Message-ID: <E27J8.128205$ah_.10642@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r  K So what happens to ComHpaq's carefully crafted plans when MS decides not tohE release a version of Windows that runs properly on IA-xx, and insteadl decides to only support Hammer?e  J We've seen them kill plans for 64-bit on Alpha long befor Alpha itself wasJ killed by Compaq. Maybe they will look at AMD as a better partner (ie. one' they can push around more effectively).l    L "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:3CF47277.2030609@home.nl... > Let's see what we've got:e >i# > Itanic performance so far stinks. E > Several major suppliers of "industry standard" servers have stoppedpA > further development of Itanic servers, at least for the moment.eG > Rumours are Intel is developing a 32/64 bit Pentium to counter the 64s > bit AMD Hammer.eK > There has been (and maybe still is) a 64 bit Alpha version of M$ Windooz. G > Now we get presentations about Alpha EV8 and EV9 designs, but why? IsaG > Intel/Compaq/HP interested in showing the world how great a processorSJ > design the Alpha is, and how stupid they are not developing this product > any further? >c
 > Conclusion:dJ > Could it be we are witnessing a very carefull implementation of a plan-BJ > scenario ? (64 bit Pentium/Hammer for the desktop, Alpha for servers and > high-end workstations ?) >oJ > Maybe HP management can look beyond M$ Office stuff and Solitaire, since> > their focus always was on mid-range systems instead of PC's. > ' > There is always hope, isn't there :-)  >uD > Oh yes, contrary to popular believe, Compaq did not sell the Alpha) > technology to Intel, but licensed it !!  >    ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 02 19:36:35 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) I Subject: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?t) Message-ID: <3GpMeUqkaQKC@elias.decus.ch>    Hi,e  K I've just had an in house installation procedure decline to install a Motif-4 component, claiming that Motif V1.2 isn't installed.  ! Here's the relevant code extract:,   $! Test if motif 1.2 $!C $         dump/header sys$library:decw$dxmlibshr.exe/block=count=1-l'               /output=vmi$kwd:motif.tmpe3 $         search vmi$kwd:motif.tmp v1.2 /output=nl:i> $         if $severity .eqs. "3" then goto motif_not_installed  3 On a system with V1.2-5 installed, this works fine.n  M On a system newly upgraded to V7.3 and Motif V1.2-6 the version number strings, is an unexpected T1.2-6, so this test fails.  D This applies both before and after installing VMS73_DW_MOT_MUP V1.0.  H So, is there a better or formally supported way to determine the correct version number?i __
 Paul Sture Switzerland@   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 08:09:18 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>s7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???n6 Message-ID: <20020529080918.19471.qmail@gacracker.org>  G On Wed, 29 May 2002, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:u0 >"Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in message2 >news:AZVI8.34653$R_4.2221@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...* >> Nomen Nescio  <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:C >> > Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock 
 >> > nonstop.n >> >3 >> > Did you just get out of prison or something???v >>L >> What is up with the pre-school insults in this newsgroup? Where do people >> like that come from?n >>E >> JF has a unique personality, but he's always treated everyone withr >> consideration and dignity.p >tI >With the exception of the Wall Street Casino Analysts and GQ Bob, that'spL >pretty much the case. And ya gotta admit, JF treats--or tries to treat--VMSK >with more dignity and respect than does a computer vendor or three I coulds >name...  + Terry, I'd just killfile the entire thread.N  I "Nomen Nescio" is the nickname placed on posts originating with the DizumsJ anonymous remailer (https://www.dizum.com). There's also a few other postsJ in the thread sent through remailers that permit specification of the from line.l  E I don't know who JF has managed to piss off (or where - this thing iseE offensively crossposted), but I see these sort of abuses of anonymoussG remailers on a regular basis. It's part of the price we have to pay for]' true freedom of speech on the Internet.n  G Anyone who wishes to automatically block as many posts as possible fromlI remailers should visit http://lexx.shinn.net/stats/remailer-list.html and-. add all the email addresses to their killfile.  H Anyone wishing to block receipt of email from remailers should add theirH email address into the form at http://paracrypt.com/remailerabuse/. This? will block many, but not all, remailers from sending you email.e; Non-participating remailers must be contacted individually.i     Doc. -- r6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neto   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 05:23:56 -0700( From: rob@denbraber.org (Rob den Braber)> Subject: M.R.U. version 1.5 and TL891 in sequential split mode= Message-ID: <9fa0ae66.0205290423.4f08b228@posting.google.com>4   Hi,u  C Over here we're having a DLT MiniLibrary TL891 with two drives. OurpD backup (own procedure) uses the sequential split mode. In the futureD we're going to do a lot of the system management from a remote site.C Because of that we want to be able to see which tapes are loaded iniC the library. So we've installed MRU version 1.5. But the problem isnD that we can't get it to work when the library is in sequential splitF mode. When we change the mode to random there's no problem. Is there aE way to get MRU working when the library is in sequential split mode ?a  # Best regards and thanks in advance,.   Rob den Braber   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:31:10 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>eB Subject: Re: M.R.U. version 1.5 and TL891 in sequential split mode) Message-ID: <3CF4D82F.362DDCA7@Omond.net>r   Rob den Braber wrote:    > Hi,M >IE > Over here we're having a DLT MiniLibrary TL891 with two drives. OurtF > backup (own procedure) uses the sequential split mode. In the futureF > we're going to do a lot of the system management from a remote site.E > Because of that we want to be able to see which tapes are loaded inlE > the library. So we've installed MRU version 1.5. But the problem is@F > that we can't get it to work when the library is in sequential splitH > mode. When we change the mode to random there's no problem. Is there aG > way to get MRU working when the library is in sequential split mode ?e  E Nope.  This is an unfortunate issue with the TL891, whereas the olderrC tape stackers such as the TZ877 could do exactly what you're tryinge to achieve.   C It's easy to write a little DCL procedure to emulate the sequentialbC access;  I did this at one customer site with a TL891, and it works 
 very well.  	 Roy Omond- Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 03:30:50 GMTc- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> O Subject: Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work....* Message-ID: <3CF448D4.2030805@qsl.network>   David J. Dachtera wrote:B  > Any chance either of you can name names? It would go a long way8  > toward bolstering the credibility of such statements.  >F  > At the very least, can you say "a major (industry name) concern" or%  > "a fortune {10|100|1000} company"?i  G Many companies consider information about their I.T. resources to be ofn< strategic value, and do not want this information given out.  @ And a consultant must respect client confidentiality agreements.) Even those for potential or past clients.a  A And consider that everyone in this newsgroup / mailing list is a a- potential customer or employer of any poster.,  G My former employer told me on my exit interview, that I may not reveal  D how many computers were on the site, or exactly what they are doing.I There are a lot of things that I am not allowed to say about the success  '   or failures of products at that site.o  = Even giving the fortune rating of a company can be a problem.   G Unless you get official permission of what ever corporate spokesman is .= responsible, an employee or consultant must not say anything.0    E U.S. Government agencies are generally prohibited from endorsing any .I specific product and must be vendor neutral in appearance.  Occasionally  5 one of their contractors can make a statement though.r  '  > This stealth nonsense is KILLING us!h   Nothing stealth about it.o  G It appears that there is a strict protocol required by the lawyers for m' giving out information about customers.e   -Johng wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyo   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 03:45:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>gO Subject: Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...O+ Message-ID: <3CF486E7.8F0AB9A@videotron.ca>h   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:oH > My former employer told me on my exit interview, that I may not revealF > how many computers were on the site, or exactly what they are doing.  G There are VP in some of the world's largest banks for whom getting suchsH agreement (as well as an agreement not to reveal any of the confidentialG information one would have processed during a 15 year contract) was notPJ important and just terminated a contract without any legal protection (andK consider that they allowed such a contract to go on for 15 years without anlN NDA).  This is most interesting when you consider that such a VP was in charge of corporate security.  H There are many "informal" links that exist between senior VPs of variousL banks, at many levels. And when such links call for exchange of information,M the staff below those VPs just comply and send/receive information with theirtM peers without asking any questions, assuming that the VPs have dealt with allsN the data protection issues, but the VPs just assume that it was done and don't bother checking.  G This is especially true in certain areas of banks that already exchangeeK sensitive information with other organisations and don't see anything wrong I with adding one more correspondant to their list and just assume that theT0 methods to exchange such information are secure.  K You would think bank auditors would catch this. But if there are no recordsrN inside that bank of any of that bank's information leaving their premises, andN the auditors are told by staff that they only receive information through thatL "pipe", then they don't investigate further. And consider that those VPs areK high enough to get authorisations to get a dial-up line and modem to accessAJ the outside service, even though normal employees at a bank would never be" allowed for data-security reasons.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 05:34:48 -0700- From: tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell)oN Subject: Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...= Message-ID: <9f261edc.0205290434.4042a95c@posting.google.com>   l Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CF38ACC.6E1D97B7@blueyonder.co.uk>... > Roy Omond wrote: >  5 > > I > > Problem with VMS is that it requires so few staff to keep it running.tF > > Better to have a small number of stars than a whole herd of MCSE's  > > and a whole lot cheaper too. > >  > I > yup, this is a real issue,  it might be better for us but non-technical 2 > management don't like dealing with such "stars".  C Correctamundo. Also worth adding that OpenVMS boxes tend to be very > tolerant of being poorly configured (ie: poor SYSGEN parameterB settings, poor UAF quotas, poor DCL, high levels of fragmentation, etc).l  F That's the main thrust of this all for me. If boxes run "fairly well",@ then let's get rid of as many staff as possible! Who cares aboutC long-term thinking, preventing problems from happening in the firste place, etc?M  E Another related thang - anyone else think there can be something of a C 'project manager conspiracy'? It must be more impressive for PMs toeC have (say) "migration of major business systems from XYZ to ABC" on D their CV/resume than just "kept the existing OpenVMS systems going &! ensuring their long-term health".e  C The danger comes when senior management (often extremely ignorant -fE sometimes wilfully so) start believing the hype. They themselves willcA usually want to 'bask in the reflected glory' of a major businessp change.   E You usually notice this when production systems suddenly become known:E as "legacy systems", without there being any tangible replacement forn them on the horizon.  A Brings up the old 'cost centres vs. profit centres' debate again.cC Never worked anywhere that the concept of 'profit centres' has evenn& been *grasped*, let alone implemented.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:33:47 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")N Subject: Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...8 Message-ID: <00A0EA63.402BC229@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  m In article <9f261edc.0205290434.4042a95c@posting.google.com>, tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) writes:nm >Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CF38ACC.6E1D97B7@blueyonder.co.uk>...^ >> Roy Omond wrote:^ >>   >> > ^J >> > Problem with VMS is that it requires so few staff to keep it running.G >> > Better to have a small number of stars than a whole herd of MCSE'sc! >> > and a whole lot cheaper too.n >> > o >> sJ >> yup, this is a real issue,  it might be better for us but non-technical3 >> management don't like dealing with such "stars".r >mD >Correctamundo. Also worth adding that OpenVMS boxes tend to be very? >tolerant of being poorly configured (ie: poor SYSGEN parameterhC >settings, poor UAF quotas, poor DCL, high levels of fragmentation,= >etc). >=G >That's the main thrust of this all for me. If boxes run "fairly well", A >then let's get rid of as many staff as possible! Who cares aboutyD >long-term thinking, preventing problems from happening in the first >place, etc? > F >Another related thang - anyone else think there can be something of aD >'project manager conspiracy'? It must be more impressive for PMs toD >have (say) "migration of major business systems from XYZ to ABC" onE >their CV/resume than just "kept the existing OpenVMS systems going &e" >ensuring their long-term health".  L You betcha.  My girlfriend worked in the NOC at a worldwide shipping companyP that relied heavily on its networking infrastructure for competitive advantage. N (The fact that any office could get realtime info on where all the ships were,E how much container space was available, etc, made a real difference.)-  H They got a new VP - hmm, six years ago now - and he decided to outsource> all of IT operations including networking. There were officialF announcements that outsourcing discussions were preliminary, that theyJ wouldn't do it if they couldn't achieve a substantial cost savings, and soG on, but in the end they decided to outsource even though there was veryeA little cost reduction, and what there was came mostly from non-ITeH considerations.  (The outsourcing company agreed to pick up the lease onD the DP center, and then sublet the parts they weren't using to otherE people, which was something the main company could have done itself.)o  D The help desk operation moved from the Bay Area to Texas.  Help deskJ employees were promised they could keep their jobs if they wanted to move.H The NOC employees were promised rather good severance packages if they'dJ stay until the outsourcing was complete (which was why my girlfriend stuck around for the rest of this).m  G Most of the NOC employees moved to other companies just as soon as theyaK could.  Only the ones who had a lot of time in or who had some special dealhH (like the guy who covered weekends and just drove the seventy miles fromJ home on Friday in an RV and slept in the RV in the parking lot, or the galH who lived across the street) stuck around.  The VP who'd set up the dealD got promoted.  His replacement decided, at the last minute, that theI outsourcing company wasn't technically strong enough to cover the NOC, sonJ they decided to keep that in house.  Only now they only had four employeesJ left to cover 24x7, so they had to bring in a lot of contractors - not allI of whom were any good, but all of of whom were making more money than theo8 employees, one of whom got demoralized by that and left.  E The new VP spent two years looking for a competent network managementlF outsource vendor, and was on the verge of signing a contract when the K whole company was bought by an Asian company, largely to take advantage of  J the much-vaunted IT technology, and they installed their existing VP of ITJ in his place, on the theory that somebody who'd been unable to bring theirK own systems past the distribute-paper-reports-by-courier phase was just the , person to manage 24x7 interactive computing.    Things went downhill from there. >o  D >The danger comes when senior management (often extremely ignorant -F >sometimes wilfully so) start believing the hype. They themselves willB >usually want to 'bask in the reflected glory' of a major business >change. >uF >You usually notice this when production systems suddenly become knownF >as "legacy systems", without there being any tangible replacement for >them on the horizon., >pB >Brings up the old 'cost centres vs. profit centres' debate again.D >Never worked anywhere that the concept of 'profit centres' has even' >been *grasped*, let alone implemented.a  I Yes.  In a massive self-inflicted wound, this shipping company took theiraE business-critical industry-leading IT system apart and let the lowestnJ bidder run most of it, in the meantime losing almost of all the people whoG had any expertise in it.  If they wanted to get involved in outsourcing:K they should have been on the outsource vendor end, not the client end - butDH because outsourcing was fashionable and a VP wanted a big project, they < gave themselves an expensive disaster and ended up acquired.  E (The happy ending for my girlfriend was that she impressed one of thetJ more-competent contractors, who happened to be picking up some extra hoursK while waiting for a big deal to come through, and he hired her at a company D whose IT he manages - at more money, not working graveyard, and withJ somebody she knows is reasonably sensible and technically-knowledgeable asJ her boss.  She never collected the severance package - but when she bailedJ after waiting for it for five years, her stomach stopped hurting.  [Well, C it stopped hurting after they removed the tumor, but that's anothero story.])   -- Alanr    O ===============================================================================w0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056eM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210gO ===============================================================================.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:23:58 GMTu4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>N Subject: Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...0 Message-ID: <3CF50D40.7009025C@blueyonder.co.uk>   Chris Bardell wrote: > n > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CF38ACC.6E1D97B7@blueyonder.co.uk>... > > Roy Omond wrote: > >  > > >mK > > > Problem with VMS is that it requires so few staff to keep it running.eH > > > Better to have a small number of stars than a whole herd of MCSE's" > > > and a whole lot cheaper too. > > >p > >eK > > yup, this is a real issue,  it might be better for us but non-technicalt4 > > management don't like dealing with such "stars". > E > Correctamundo. Also worth adding that OpenVMS boxes tend to be veryN@ > tolerant of being poorly configured (ie: poor SYSGEN parameterD > settings, poor UAF quotas, poor DCL, high levels of fragmentation, > etc).h > H > That's the main thrust of this all for me. If boxes run "fairly well",B > then let's get rid of as many staff as possible! Who cares aboutE > long-term thinking, preventing problems from happening in the first 
 > place, etc?m >   C Yup, get rid of the people who know what they are doing but its toooC complicated for the pm to understand, then the system goes downhillaO and consequently becomes ripe for replacement, and as the pm's bonus is related/I to his budget, a nice high profile replacement project is just the ticketo0 for everyone except the out of work sysmgrs. :-)  G > Another related thang - anyone else think there can be something of ahE > 'project manager conspiracy'? It must be more impressive for PMs to E > have (say) "migration of major business systems from XYZ to ABC" on F > their CV/resume than just "kept the existing OpenVMS systems going &$ > ensuring their long-term health".#  H Bah, project managing is part of the day job for a VMS sysmgr, or should be.-     -- - tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk :  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 00:53:07 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) . Subject: Re: Next Generation IA64 test results3 Message-ID: <$zFORHFgCsLw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3CF4676F.5FDF69A3@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  M > Is it possible that HP will delay EV7 systems until after  IA64 version 2.0 
 > comes out ?   E 	Unlikely.  Large customers with large checkbooks lined up for large tH 	orders.  Contractural promises, etc.  Besides, I think Itanium2 systems. 	will be out and about before EV7 at year-end.   > O > Will IA64 V2.0 have "world's fastest chip" status if it comes out this summeraP > with the speed estimates, or will it still be eclipsed by Power and the 2.4ghz > 8086 ? >   = 	Depends on the metric or what is measured.  I'll bet we willR  	see some sort of RSA benchmark.  8 > Is there any chance that it would be faster than EV7 ?  B 	Depends on the metric.  Expect large floating point numbers.  NotH 	nearly the integer number.  Large tpmC , but Oracle and SQL help there.@ 	I would speculate it is faster in one,  RSA.  Close in floatingE 	point (close being within 10% but that is a guess).  I'm not certain E 	of a large CPU count McKinley running Oracle (which OS)?  But surely F 	we will see a large SQL number with many cobbled together 8 processor 	boxes, like so:  C http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=101091901rC http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=101091902hC http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=101091903n  ' 	i.e. 16, 24 or 32 - 8 processor boxes.r  B 	Certainly won't have near the STREAM number.  But then again, EV7% 	makes for *MUCH* stronger _systems_.l   				Robr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:27:42 +0200e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>. Subject: Re: Next Generation IA64 test results& Message-ID: <3CF474DE.6050209@home.nl>   Jeff Killeen wrote:MN > http://wsj.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailT > oID=360287987S >  >  > -- >  > Jeff Killeen >  > A > ---------------------------------------------------------------> >  >  >   G So the new Itanic is about 1.5 to 2 times faster then the old one from tH last year. How much faster are todays Pentiums then last years Pentiums?  G Last years Itanic performance was lousy, so this version is a bit less i lousy ?c   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:38:44 GMTe, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com> Subject: Re: No new ALL-IN-12 Message-ID: <ER4J8.13$lP3.444477@news.cpqcorp.net>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2071D.C25A2990g Content-Type: text/plain;t 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablee  $ This question has arisen before in =9 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/MandM_forum.htmlr  ! Here's an excerpt from the reply:h  H >I've asked our Product Manager, Dave Holt (dave.holt@compaq.com), and =G the answer is that for >this purpose you don't need a license at all! =lI You can install Office Server, and enter Office Server >with the System = H Manager account, since the System Manager doesn't need a license. Only =F if you >wanted to extend the system to add other users to the Office =% Server profile would you need CALs=20t >(Client Access Licenses).=20y >  >Two things to note:=20cI >A) During installation you need to say that you have a non-zero number = J of CALs (even though you >haven't!), so that the installation succeeds.=20@ >B) Running with CALs rather than a PAK means that some of the => functionality (WPS-PLUS, GPC, >CBI, etc.) is not installed.=20   b-  9 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message = ' news:0033000065899360000002L002*@MHS...o   If this is true :^(m  $ then Let There Be Hobbyist Licenses.   WWWEbb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETr% Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:20 AMeB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: No new Alll-In-Onet    4 On Tue, 28 May 2002 15:15:12 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:    >mE >Yeah, I'd like to see the ad, too, but something tells me that the =o	 epicenter G >of the US Government would not want to serve as a reference site. EvenuI >though they've used ALL-In-1 since it was perpetrated, and even though =h they4 >have (IIRC) FIVE VMS-based GS-320s on site now. ;-}  @ According to Mark Gorham yesterday in Reading, All-In-One/OfficeB Server will not be ported to Itanium.  I don't recall hearing this6 previously. The HP advised replacement is MS Exchange.     >v   -- Alan=3Du  + ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2071D.C25A2990  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"e+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableg  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =t charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>y <STYLE></STYLE>t </HEAD>m <BODY>G <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>This question has =e arisen before=20 in</FONT> <A=20sJ href=3D"http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/MandM_forum.html">http:/=* /www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial<FONT=20J face=3DArial>/MandM_forum.html</A></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial =	 size=3D2>gF <DIV><BR>Here's an excerpt from the reply:<BR><BR>&gt;I've asked our =
 Product=20G Manager, Dave Holt (dave.holt@compaq.com), and the answer is that for =e &gt;this=20VI purpose you don't need a license at all! You can install Office Server, =o and=20D enter Office Server &gt;with the System Manager account, since the =	 System=20oF Manager doesn't need a license. Only if you &gt;wanted to extend the = system to=20G add other users to the Office Server profile would you need CALs </DIV>R) <DIV>&gt;(Client Access Licenses). </DIV>nJ <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><FONT face=3DArial>&gt;</FONT><BR>&gt;Two = things to=20F note: <BR>&gt;A) During installation you need to say that you have a = non-zero=209J number of CALs (even though you &gt;haven't!), so that the installation=20J succeeds. <BR>&gt;B) Running with CALs rather than a PAK means that some =	 of the=20mE functionality (WPS-PLUS, GPC, &gt;CBI, etc.) is not installed. </DIV>o <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>,1 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>b</FONT><BR></DIV></FONT>u@ <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"WILLIAM WEBB" &lt;</FONT><A=20; href=3D"mailto:WWEBB1@email.usps.gov"><FONT face=3DArial=20d= size=3D2>WWEBB1@email.usps.gov</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =G size=3D2>&gt; wrote in=20rG message </FONT><A href=3D"news:0033000065899360000002L002*@MHS"><FONT =e face=3DArial=20h? size=3D2>news:0033000065899360000002L002*@MHS</FONT></A><FONT =  face=3DArial=20pJ size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If this is true =  ( :^(<BR><BR>then Let There Be Hobbyist=20D Licenses.<BR><BR>WWWEbb<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: = </FONT><A=20C href=3D"mailto:Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com"><FONT face=3DArial=20oE size=3D2>Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =j size=3D2> at=20sJ INTERNET<BR>Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:20 AM<BR>To: Webb, William W =  D Raleigh, NC; </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com"><FONT = face=3DArial=20tJ size=3D2>Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> at =  G INTERNET<BR>Subject: RE: No new Alll-In-One<BR><BR><BR>On Tue, 28 May =n 2002=20o4 15:15:12 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"<BR>&lt;</FONT><A=20< href=3D"mailto:terryshannon@attbi.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20> size=3D2>terryshannon@attbi.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>&gt;=20B wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yeah, I'd like to see the ad, too, but = something tells=20E me that the epicenter<BR>&gt;of the US Government would not want to = 
 serve as a=204H reference site. Even<BR>&gt;though they've used ALL-In-1 since it was=20E perpetrated, and even though they<BR>&gt;have (IIRC) FIVE VMS-based =l
 GS-320s on=20.F site now. ;-}<BR><BR>According to Mark Gorham yesterday in Reading,=20J All-In-One/Office<BR>Server will not be ported to Itanium.&nbsp; I don't =	 recall=20r? hearing this<BR>previously. The HP advised replacement is MS=20rC Exchange.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR><BR>--<BR>Alan=3D</FONT></BODY></HTML>O  - ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2071D.C25A2990--    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:40:52 GMT , From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com>G Subject: No new ALL-IN-1 (subject line changed to protect the innocent) 1 Message-ID: <o%3J8.8$VH3.221341@news.cpqcorp.net>c   True:>B > According to Mark Gorham yesterday in Reading, All-In-One/Office' > Server will not be ported to Itanium.t  H The product will be supported until at least 2005. Office Server V7.1 isF starting field test next month; to sign up for the field test, contact iosgqars@hp.com .a  I Incidentally, further re several previous posts, the White House does noteJ use the product as its general-purpose mail engine (which is Lotus Notes),H but uses ALL-IN-1 to run an application that manages their mail archive.   br   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:21:34 -0600 (MDT) " From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> Subject: Re: No new All-In-OneG Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0205290709500.29521-100000@athena.csdco.com>a  ? On Wed, 29 May 2002, Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:   b > In article <3v59fu03tjmitd1gmmfhp6vhpofc711pf5@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:7 > >On Tue, 28 May 2002 15:15:12 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"m" > ><terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: > >o > >>P > >>Yeah, I'd like to see the ad, too, but something tells me that the epicenterJ > >>of the US Government would not want to serve as a reference site. EvenO > >>though they've used ALL-In-1 since it was perpetrated, and even though theyk7 > >>have (IIRC) FIVE VMS-based GS-320s on site now. ;-}d > >sC > >According to Mark Gorham yesterday in Reading, All-In-One/OfficeiE > >Server will not be ported to Itanium.  I don't recall hearing this 9 > >previously. The HP advised replacement is MS Exchange.t > L > What's really sad is that HP developed what was reputed to be an excellentL > Exchange replacement called OpenMail (on HP-UX and Linux), with a bunch ofJ > enthusiastic people in the group - who then, apparently, weren't allowedK > to market it aggressively and eventually had the project cancelled under e( > them because it wasn't selling enough. > F > (Everything after "apparently" in the above sentence is my surmise.) > 	 > -- Alana > Q > ===============================================================================w2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056aO >  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210lQ > ===============================================================================d >  >     E MS' new software licensing strategy appears to have customers lookingeI elsewhere.  One of my customers who uses VMS (with NT and Macs as desktoppH devices) recently received the latest MS offer/threat letter and laughed: that a company could think its customers so feeble-minded.   John Nebel     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:59:36 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>- Subject: Re: No new Alll-In-Oneb8 Message-ID: <3v59fu03tjmitd1gmmfhp6vhpofc711pf5@4ax.com>  4 On Tue, 28 May 2002 15:15:12 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:f   >cM >Yeah, I'd like to see the ad, too, but something tells me that the epicenter G >of the US Government would not want to serve as a reference site. EvenlL >though they've used ALL-In-1 since it was perpetrated, and even though they4 >have (IIRC) FIVE VMS-based GS-320s on site now. ;-}  @ According to Mark Gorham yesterday in Reading, All-In-One/OfficeB Server will not be ported to Itanium.  I don't recall hearing this6 previously. The HP advised replacement is MS Exchange.     >h   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:37:44 -0400t* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: No new Alll-In-Onen- Message-ID: <0033000065899360000002L002*@MHS>u   =0AIf this is true :^(  $ then Let There Be Hobbyist Licenses.   WWWEbb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe% Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:20 AMBB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: No new Alll-In-Onec    4 On Tue, 28 May 2002 15:15:12 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:s   >sH >Yeah, I'd like to see the ad, too, but something tells me that the epi= centerH >of the US Government would not want to serve as a reference site. Even=  H >though they've used ALL-In-1 since it was perpetrated, and even though=  theya4 >have (IIRC) FIVE VMS-based GS-320s on site now. ;-}  @ According to Mark Gorham yesterday in Reading, All-In-One/OfficeB Server will not be ported to Itanium.  I don't recall hearing this6 previously. The HP advised replacement is MS Exchange.     >    -- Alan=d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:47:23 GMTcL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: No new Alll-In-Onee8 Message-ID: <00A0EA5C.C50D9C3F@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <3v59fu03tjmitd1gmmfhp6vhpofc711pf5@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:5 >On Tue, 28 May 2002 15:15:12 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"n  ><terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: >e >>N >>Yeah, I'd like to see the ad, too, but something tells me that the epicenterH >>of the US Government would not want to serve as a reference site. EvenM >>though they've used ALL-In-1 since it was perpetrated, and even though they=5 >>have (IIRC) FIVE VMS-based GS-320s on site now. ;-}D >UA >According to Mark Gorham yesterday in Reading, All-In-One/Office6C >Server will not be ported to Itanium.  I don't recall hearing thisA7 >previously. The HP advised replacement is MS Exchange.=  J What's really sad is that HP developed what was reputed to be an excellentJ Exchange replacement called OpenMail (on HP-UX and Linux), with a bunch ofH enthusiastic people in the group - who then, apparently, weren't allowedI to market it aggressively and eventually had the project cancelled under >& them because it wasn't selling enough.  D (Everything after "apparently" in the above sentence is my surmise.)   -- Alane  O ===============================================================================t0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056nM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210gO ===============================================================================c   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 07:13:43 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>o Subject: Re: No new Alpha saleso6 Message-ID: <20020529071343.16781.qmail@gacracker.org>  C On Tue, 28 May 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >"Doc.Cypher" wrote:3 >>     "The Whitehouse is immune to email viruses?"s >> t% >>     "Of course, they use OpenVMS."l > O >Considering ALL-IN-1/Office Server are being abandonned and not ported to thatoI >IA64 thing, I doubt that HP would want to brag about it killing productsdL >relied upon by the white house. And it is likely that the white house wouldN >have plans to dump ALL-IN-1 in time since the product will become mature in a >version or two.  J OK, you were at the top of my list of suspects for bringing up that point.  I Anyway, when have little factoids like that ever got in the way of a goodn bit of marketing?t     Doc. -- m6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netx   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:44:59 GMTa2 From: "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales-1 Message-ID: <%a3J8.6$yJ3.303121@news.cpqcorp.net>y  I In the ideal world of course we should compare a Granny Smith to a Granny-J Smith, the nearest we are likely to get is apples to apples. Or going backH to computers then using the same benchmark. Everyone knows that most SMPG benchmarks are roughly linear at first and then as maximum approaches aD< curve develops and at the extreme unpredicted things happen.  J That applies to TPC-C, SAP, Oracle Apps etc etc. From a smple of 1, eitherK the Sun 15k has a very long curved part or the per-processor performance iskL lower. To draw that conclusion from one data point is not entirely valid butC is probably the best we can do. If one then adds that over time all J computers get faster, arguable for Intel sometimes, then it gets even more
 difficult.  H No vendor wants to spend $1m on a big benchmark and not win so fewer andC fewer benchmarks happen and we pre-sales people and consultants and < architects etc have to guide our customers through the maze.  L So if comparing 32 CPUs on one bm to 76 on another is not good - does anyoneI have a better idea? Waiting for all vendors to perform the same bm on the K same day with the same quantity of their own proprietary resource is not anA option - it'll never happen.   --" Andrew Dodd - not speaking for HP. Pre-Sales Account Consultant HP Computer Ltdi www.hp.com/uk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:56:38 GMTo2 From: "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesr1 Message-ID: <Wl3J8.7$yJ3.303121@news.cpqcorp.net>t  F It's not in my power to change any of HPQ/CPQ plans - I am a pre-sales= consultant in the UK. I design solutions and influence sales.    Why do you write in here?C  L I decided to finally get around to answering some points because there is an@ awful lot of negative comment in here, some justified, much not.  K Much has been written in the last couple of weeks about the future for VMS. H I started with Digital in 1979 so I pretty much track the history of VMS though I started on RSTS/E.w  I It is my belief that HP believed that by stating that they would carry onsG with all published roadmaps for Alpha, VMS and Tru64 that would, in the-H short term, satisfy most customers. Certainly the customers I have facedI accross a meeting room have not expressed any negativity. There are othertD customer groups, eg HP Netserver buyers who need a lot more help andL support. For Alpha/VMS/Tru64 customers nothing changed on the day the merger closed.   L Now everything depends upon what happens going forward. That depends, not soI much upon HP but upon the customers and the ISVs. The only places where IeF have lost VMS customers has been where the ISV has announced an end toK support of a software package. That to me is where HPQ needs to put most oftL its focus. That is why SUN has run away with the UNIX space. It is not aboutC hardware, nor having the best people. It is all about applications.e  K So if I were a customer I would not worry too much about picking over everyyF last sentence that HPQ issues I'd be asking my ISV for their plans and/ asking HPQ what there ISV programmes look like.d  # Here endeth the thoughts of Andrew.    --" Andrew Dodd - not speaking for HP. Pre-Sales Account Consultant HP Computer Ltde www.hp.com/uk/   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 06:50 CDTs' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: No new Alpha saless- Message-ID: <29MAY200206502480@gerg.tamu.edu>t  5 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes...a@ }"Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.Dodd@Compaq.spamfreecom> wrote in message, }news:T2LI8.13$B13.69701@news.cpqcorp.net... }  }<snip> L }> If the benchmark was re-run with current technology CPUs, 1001MHz for theG }> GS320, then a projection would be that there would be a much smallera& }> difference between the two results. } K }And if the benchmark was re-run with CPUs that'll be announced in a coupleoI }of months (e.g. 1224MHz for the GS-Series EV68 family) the results wouldq }look better still.I  I And if the benchmark was re-run with CPUs that won't exist until 2044 the,H results would look so much better you'd wonder how people get along with> such slow computers as we have today, tomorrow, and next year.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 12:23:34 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>  Subject: Re: No new Alpha saless6 Message-ID: <20020529122334.25357.qmail@gacracker.org>  H On Wed, 29 May 2002, "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> wrote:G >It's not in my power to change any of HPQ/CPQ plans - I am a pre-salesn> >consultant in the UK. I design solutions and influence sales.   Yes, I guessed that.   >Why do you write in here?  " I sometimes wonder that myself :-)  J At its simplest I find the newsgroup an interesting place where the commonJ interest, VMS, is one I share. I do agree about the negativity you mention though.P  M >I decided to finally get around to answering some points because there is anCA >awful lot of negative comment in here, some justified, much not.  >tL >Much has been written in the last couple of weeks about the future for VMS.I >I started with Digital in 1979 so I pretty much track the history of VMSa >though I started on RSTS/E. > J >It is my belief that HP believed that by stating that they would carry onH >with all published roadmaps for Alpha, VMS and Tru64 that would, in theI >short term, satisfy most customers. Certainly the customers I have facedHJ >accross a meeting room have not expressed any negativity. There are otherE >customer groups, eg HP Netserver buyers who need a lot more help and M >support. For Alpha/VMS/Tru64 customers nothing changed on the day the mergere >closed.  E I'm glad to hear you're getting positive feedback from customers, buteJ that's existing customers. Those who wish to work, or continue to work, on) VMS would like to see more new customers.o  M >Now everything depends upon what happens going forward. That depends, not soiJ >much upon HP but upon the customers and the ISVs. The only places where IG >have lost VMS customers has been where the ISV has announced an end tonL >support of a software package. That to me is where HPQ needs to put most ofM >its focus. That is why SUN has run away with the UNIX space. It is not aboutsD >hardware, nor having the best people. It is all about applications.  J As I said, I've heard positive news about how this is to be approached WRT VMS.  L >So if I were a customer I would not worry too much about picking over everyG >last sentence that HPQ issues I'd be asking my ISV for their plans ande0 >asking HPQ what there ISV programmes look like. >A$ >Here endeth the thoughts of Andrew.   Thanks for them.  H I hope you can appreciate that virtually everyone here would like to see! the profile of VMS raised though.9     Doc. -- @6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:49:27 GMTM1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>o Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesF8 Message-ID: <H%4J8.1907$fT5.473633@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:29MAY200206502480@gerg.tamu.edu...:7 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes...hB > }"Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.Dodd@Compaq.spamfreecom> wrote in message. > }news:T2LI8.13$B13.69701@news.cpqcorp.net... > }a	 > }<snip> J > }> If the benchmark was re-run with current technology CPUs, 1001MHz for the I > }> GS320, then a projection would be that there would be a much smallerl( > }> difference between the two results. > }0F > }And if the benchmark was re-run with CPUs that'll be announced in a coupleK > }of months (e.g. 1224MHz for the GS-Series EV68 family) the results wouldh > }look better still.h >pK > And if the benchmark was re-run with CPUs that won't exist until 2044 theeJ > results would look so much better you'd wonder how people get along with@ > such slow computers as we have today, tomorrow, and next year.  K Yes, it is likely that computers will be faster on the 100th anniversary ofiH D-Day than they are today. The EV7 CPU has existed for more than a year,D though. I presume that if you had enough money you could purchase an9 EV7-based system today under the early adopters' program.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:56:17 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales I Message-ID: <RK7J8.142298$t8_.99882@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>1  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message1 news:MuQI8.155$fT5.140272@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...c >dK > I haven't been in the employ of an NSA subsidiary  for more than 30 years  now....   I Shouldn't that have been phrased as, "I cannot confirm nor deny I haven'tvG been in the employ of an NSA subsidiary for more than 30 years now....",  J Say, why's that unmarked car been parked outside your house for the past 3 days?W   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:58:05 GMT(# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>I Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesnI Message-ID: <xM7J8.142300$t8_.25422@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e  ( Rose Mary Woods on backup duty that day?    < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message1 news:0xQI8.156$fT5.140853@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...t >a5 > "Bob Willard" <BobwBSGS@attbi.com> wrote in messageL% > news:3CF3CFD2.E1156FCE@attbi.com...e >v > >3F > > Now we know:  the Whitehouse is a place where the Sun don't shine. > > -- > K > Yeah, which makes me wonder how Algore got away with his "the dog ate themK > emails" codswallop. Ostensibly a boatload of emails (incriminating? we'lllJ > never know!) were archived on Zip disks. Why on God's green earth anyoneK > would (or, for that matter, even COULD) archive VMS stuff on a crufty Zipt > disk is beyond me... >k	 > cheers,( >C% > terry "just a bureaucratic snafu" s- >  >s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:59:31 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>a Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesT8 Message-ID: <TN7J8.1980$fT5.527272@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:xM7J8.142300$t8_.25422@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...d* > Rose Mary Woods on backup duty that day?  K Naaahhh.... there just would have been an 18-minute gap. Ironically, the 18sG minutes of infamy achieved a lot more notoriety than did the 100K or so  "lost" emails.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:00:11 GMTs1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>= Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales=8 Message-ID: <vO7J8.1981$fT5.527430@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:RK7J8.142298$t8_.99882@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...l >:> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message3 > news:MuQI8.155$fT5.140272@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...= > >=G > > I haven't been in the employ of an NSA subsidiary  for more than 30e yearsh	 > now....r >oK > Shouldn't that have been phrased as, "I cannot confirm nor deny I haven'tkI > been in the employ of an NSA subsidiary for more than 30 years now...."h > L > Say, why's that unmarked car been parked outside your house for the past 3 > days?-  I Oh, you must be referring to my BMW from Hell. Sucker's been parked theree for a month now...   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:09:35 GMTp# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>M Subject: Re: No new Alpha saleshI Message-ID: <jX7J8.128356$ah_.25626@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>a  = "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> wrote in messagev+ news:Wl3J8.7$yJ3.303121@news.cpqcorp.net...e >tH > There are other customer groups, eg HP Netserver buyers who need a lot
 more help andh
 > support.  K I beg to differ. What's the difference between one 'industry-standard' pile F of cr*p and another? Mostly just the name tag on the front of the box.      E > For Alpha/VMS/Tru64 customers nothing changed on the day the merger. closed.    Sadly true.-    K > Now everything depends upon what happens going forward. That depends, notL soK > much upon HP but upon the customers and the ISVs. The only places where I0H > have lost VMS customers has been where the ISV has announced an end toJ > support of a software package. That to me is where HPQ needs to put most ofH > its focus. That is why SUN has run away with the UNIX space. It is not abouteE > hardware, nor having the best people. It is all about applications.R  J And belief that HPQ is truly committed to OpenVMS. Don't you think that itL would help immeasurably if Carly put on her ruby slippers and said, "There'sK no o/s like VMS." and "I want to go back to VMS."? (Wizard of Oz referencesoL here). Don't you think that would offer some comfort to ISV's and thereby toK customers too? What's taking her so long to do this, or doesn't she and the @ rest of upper management care about the erosion of the VMS base?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:43:07 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesaI Message-ID: <Lq8J8.128462$ah_.34080@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>2  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageD: news:ZaRI8.48693$Kp.5012136@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >e >lL > Even if that happens to be the case, it's more a marketing decision than aG > technical issue.  Let's keep at least *trying* to compare performancer apples > to performance apples. >2L > It's somewhat easier to get better per-processor performance out of systemK > that maxes out at 32 processors than one that maxes out at 72 (or 108, orrI > whatever Sun is supporting now) processors, and benchmarks don't always K > scale linearly either as processor counts increase.  About the closest to= anI > apples-to-apples comparison you could get would be to run the test on akL > 32-processor E15K and see how it compared with the maxed-out GS box, using% > top-of-the-line processors in each.A  H Yes, but....a lot of times the purchasing decision has no bearing on theI technical merits of how high or linearly the thing scales. It often comesa> down to the question of "How much bang can I buy for my buck".  J A crude analogy - you need a new pickup truck to carry 1 ton. You have sayH $15,000 to spend (don't know if this a realistic number, but say it is).I Your choice is to buy a low-end pickup (but fully loaded) that meets your G needs today but can't carry any more than 1 ton, or buy a stripped-down=K version of a more capable truck that would be able to carry more and/or hasO& more tuning options/aftermarket parts.  L The reality is that relatively few organizations or people upgrade what theyJ buy. The simply get rid of what they bought in favor of a newer model whenG the machine (or truck) no longer meets their needs (or the ashtray gets  full).  I That's why lots of companies don't care whether something scales within a<F single box. And not enough know about clustering to 'recycle' existing hardware to new purposes.2   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 02 19:57:28 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)o Subject: OT: Dubbing) Message-ID: <7gz68jc70cI0@elias.decus.ch>e  d In article <OF1F1DE5C5.D2F15979-ON80256BC7.002E92CF@systems.uk.hsbc>, paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com writes: > I > I lived in Germany for a bit and had the surreal experience of watchingaM > 'The Jungle Book' (The Disney version) in German. The songs were not dubbed J > thought it reminds me of a story .... The dubbed version of the Sound ofJ > Music  shown in Singapore was considered too long so they cut all of the > songs. It was a big hit! >   P The French version of the SoM that I saw has all songs but one or two in French.F I concluded that the one or two done in the original English must have' been chart hits, so were left undubbed.a   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:23:25 GMT - From: "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@email.msn.com>d, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)8 Message-ID: <x_1J8.1458$fT5.415009@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  K Someone here sent me an e-mail with this subject line, which I accidentallyn deleted.# Sorry about my fumble-fingeredness.  Would you please re-send?a  
     - Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:54:23 -0400t2 From: Roland Hutchinson <rolands.spamtrap@usa.net>, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)4 Message-ID: <ad2fib$tvnhe$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>   CBFalconer wrote:r  # > Now how do you pronounce [1/acre]i   "Inverse acres".    A > and what is the conversion factor. I am much too lazy to figureT	 > it out    K Me, too (and this two-bit Linux box doesn't seem to have the units utility w" installed. I've got to fix that!).  B > By comparison with litres/100 km, we should be using the inverse8 > conversion, and measure fuel efficiency in acres :-)    E In hectares, surely. I can do THAT conversion in my head (though not n6 necessarily without slipping a decimal place or four):  6 1 L/100 km = (10^-1 m)^3 / (100 * 10^3) m = 10^-8 m^2       = 10^-10 a = 10^-12 hao  E Is there such a thing as a picohectare, or should we speak it as 100   picoares, I wonder?m   -- mA Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.a  A NB mail to rolands.spamtrap@usa.net is heavily filtered to removed8 spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:52:45 -0600e0 From: "Russell P. Holsclaw" <russ@holsclaw.nyet>, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)/ Message-ID: <974J8.3$LO3.28585@news.uswest.net>2  * > (speed of light) / (speed of a tortoise) >hD > as 10^10 is a dodge I've used in the novel to explain interstellar+ > distances and travel times to the reader.   G This reminds me of another interesting ratio I discovered recently. The F ratio between one light-year and one Astronomical Unit (mean Earth-SunJ distance) is almost exactly the same as the number of inches in a mile....  within something like 0.2% IIRC.  K This provides a handy scale for visualizing astronomical distances. ImaginetK a map of the solar system in which the Earth is shown only 1 inch away fromwK the Sun. A map of the Solar System, including the outer planets, would be alK big piece of wallpaper about eight feet square, but the Sun would be a tinyeJ grain of sand and the Earth the size of a microbe. This is why diagrams ofJ the Solar System are never drawn to scale -- everything in it would be too
 small to see.A  H Now, on a map drawn to the same scale (1 inch per AU), the nearest star,L other than the Sun, is about 4 and a half miles away. And a map of the MilkyG Way galaxy would reach about halfway to the moon. Remember that at thise< scale, the speed of light is about 1 inch every 8.3 minutes.  D Now, using this imaginary scale map, try convincing someone that theJ universe was created specifically for the benefit of humanity. Remember...H we're the ones crawling around on the surface of that invisible microbe.   -- Russ   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 03:58:41 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) U Subject: Re: PMDF: access to from address in customer-supplied routine substitutions?e< Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205290258.a8a1f1e@posting.google.com>  Q david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<acvib1$6jo$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>.../k > In article <55f85d77.0205280021.14792a64@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes: G > >In my code I would like to know the contents of the from address foruD > >the message being processed. This particular PMDF instance is 5.2 > >under OpenVMS 7.3.@ > M > You would probably be better asking this sort of technical PMDF question on C > the vmsnet.mail.pmdf newsgroup or the info-pmdf mailing list (seeC/ > http://www.pmdf.process.com/info-PMDF.html ).    I'll give this a try.   O > My understanding is that the syntax for site-supplied routine substitution isr > $[image,routine,argument]l  C I've had this part working, however have not a clue as to access toEB message headers from my routine. I played with the PMDF API today,D however it seems to operate only on queued messages and this routine) is executed before the message is queued.w   Many thanks.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:24:56 GMT 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Press Release DS20L2 Message-ID: <cp6J8.21$oT3.618596@news.cpqcorp.net>  C       HP Introduces Powerful, High-density Server and Supercomputer.:       More Than 1,000 New AlphaServer Systems Already Sold%       PALO ALTO, Calif., May 28, 2002t    J --------------------------------------------------------------------------  K       HP (NYSE:HPQ) today introduced the HP AlphaServer DS20L server and HPtG AlphaServer SC20 supercomputer, which deliver to customers in fields as E diverse as entertainment to defense the power of a supercomputer in ao) space-saving, rack-mounted configuration.g  G       The systems further strengthen HP's position as the leader in the G high-performance technical computing marketplace. According to industryiL research group International Data Corp., the combined market share of HP andE Compaq represented 41.5 percent of the $5.06 billion high-performanceiH computing market.(1) More than 1,000 of the HP AlphaServer DS20L servers9 have already been sold to customers throughout the world.t  K       "In high-end film production, quality is key and projects live or die E by the clock and our computer-generated feature film 'Ice Age' was noyJ exception. HP's AlphaServer systems helped us increase quality and shortenC the design cycle," said Carl Ludwig, vice president of research andsK development, Blue Sky Studios. "With the HP AlphaServer DS20L we can expectnI even more power in a single rack, deliver the high-quality rendering thatn1 made 'Ice Age' so unique, and do it even faster."i  C       The HP AlphaServer DS20L server, based on the 1U high-densityoH computing format, is 1  inches high, 19 inches wide and 20 inches deep.K Each system contains two 64-bit Alpha processors with up to 2 GB of memory.oI As many as 40 DS20L servers with 80 Alpha processors can be combined in ae0 single 6.5-foot-high rack-mounted configuration.  G       The HP AlphaServer SC20 is a scalable, single-image supercomputerfJ based on DS20L building blocks. The SC20, which is available with HP Tru64J UNIX, can combine up to 128 DS20L units via a high-speed interconnect and+ deliver up to 426 gigaflops of performance.i  K       "The new HP AlphaServer DS20L doubles the per rack performance of themL nearest competitor," said Troy Deel, lead engineer, Zeta Associates, FederalH Program. "The ability to pack this much power into a small space will be, very appealing to our government customers."  G       HP, the industry leader in clustering technology, also offers thewL AlphaServer DS20L in HP Tru64 UNIX and Linux clustered configurations with a broad variety of interconnects.w  L       "To help us increase quality and shorten design cycles, we've combinedI dozens of AlphaServer DS series units in racks to create a very powerful,9D easy-to-manage system that works as one," said Mark Hill, manager ofJ mid-range systems, Corning Inc. "The new HP AlphaServer DS20L gives us theB opportunity to pack even more power into a single rack and deliver high-quality results faster."u  J       The new HP AlphaServer DS20L systems, rated at 132 gigaflops of peakA performance in a single rack, have produced the highest sustained.E performance per rack (a rating of 724 per processor) for high-densityrJ servers as measured by the industry-standard SPECfp_2000 benchmark.(2) TheK DS20L also produced outstanding results in the SPECint2000, SPECfp_rate2000  and Linpack benchmarks.   D       "The introduction of these high-density HP AlphaServer systemsE reaffirms our commitment to meeting the milestones we outlined to our G customers in our AlphaServer product roadmap," said Rich Marcello, vicesL president and general manager, HP Alpha Systems Division. "These AlphaServerG systems will be particularly significant for customers in areas such assE government security, scientific research and automotive and aerospaceuI engineering, which all need increasingly higher levels of performance but.! have space and cost constraints."h  J       "The announcement of the HP AlphaServer DS20L is a strong indicationD of the company's ongoing commitment to the HPTC community and to theJ AlphaServer roadmap," said Debra Goldfarb, group vice president, Worldwide Systems and Servers, IDC.   G       "We see this product family enhancing HP's ability to support thesI broad range of technical computing requirements from the department up toiL terascale workloads. The DS20L further strengthens HP's overall portfolio ofK products, enabling the company to maintain a leadership position within the ( high-performance technical marketplace."  J       HP also plans to introduce a high-end HP AlphaServer family based onK new Alpha EV7 processor technology later this year. The company has alreadyeJ begun previewing early versions of these systems with select customers and software partners.  J       Pricing for the HP AlphaServer DS20L system, complete with two AlphaF processors, 512 MB of memory and 18.2 GB of disk storage, starts at anI estimated U.S. street price of less than $18,000. The HP AlphaServer SC20 F supercomputer with a base system of eight Alpha processors and 4 GB ofL memory is expected to begin shipping in August with an estimated U.S. street price starting at $290,000.(3)  K       Additional information on the new HP AlphaServer systems is available + at http://www.hp.com/products/alphasystems.          About HP  J       HP is a leading global provider of products, technologies, solutionsI and services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span ITwJ infrastructure, personal computing and access devices, global services andJ imaging and printing. HP merged with Compaq Computer Corp. on May 3, 2002.I The merged company had combined revenue of approximately $81.7 billion insG fiscal 2001 and operations in more than 160 countries. More information + about HP is available at http://www.hp.com.i    K       (1) IDC, Worldwide High Performance Technical Computing Census, 2001.o  L       (2) The SPEC benchmark is designed to provide a comparative measure ofK compute-intensive performance across a range of hardware, using source coden' developed from real world applications.r  !       (3) Actual prices may vary.a        J --------------------------------------------------------------------------  7       UNIX is a registered trademark of the Open Group.-      J --------------------------------------------------------------------------  H       This news release contains forward-looking statements that involveJ risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than statementsF of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-lookingH statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions include the possibilityE that the market for the sale of certain products and services may noteL develop as expected; that development of these products and services may notK proceed as planned; and other risks that are described from time to time in'J HP's Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limitedK to HP's annual report on Form 10-K, as amended on January 30, 2002, for the J fiscal year ended October 31, 2001, HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q forL the quarter ended January 31, 2002 (as filed with the SEC on March 12, 2002)F and subsequently filed reports. If any of these risks or uncertaintiesG materializes or any of these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's resultseF could differ materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HPI assumes no obligation and does not intend to update these forward-lookinge statements.              newsroom    !                    press releasesl                        press kits     "                    feature stories                        hp adsl    #                    hp-compaq mergern                       begin 666 tl_corner_10.gif= M1TE&.#EA"@`4`( !`/_______R'Y! $```$`+ `````*`!0```(6A ^AF+KFl 2(HQNTM NUKS[#X;B2)9:`0`[  `o endr   begin 666 tr_corner_10.gif= M1TE&.#EA"@`4`( !`/_______R'Y! $```$`+ `````*`!0```(7C($)QKK<o 3$(1RGF<#MCO[#X;B2)9F6 ``.P``h `n enda   begin 666 a_6699cc.gif= M1TE&.#EA"0`(`( ``/___V:9S"'Y! $`````+ `````)``@```(/A!%QF[K6  +4)N4OLC2DZ<``#L`r `a end.   begin 666 bl_corner_10.gif= M1TE&.#EA"@`4`( !`/_______R'Y! $```$`+ `````*`!0```(5C(^IR^T/h 1HYP.-,L`5CIWKGU'2!X%`#L`  `u end    begin 666 br_corner_10.gif= M1TE&.#EA"@`4`( !`/_______R'Y! $```$`+ `````*`!0```(5C(^IR^T/s 1HYST@'87R&IKCVRB)8H%`#L`. `n endu   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:50:57 +0100 (MET)d9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L; Message-ID: <01KIB4FAKYJK96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    > Subj:	Press Release DS20L'  / Somewhat off-topic here, as it doesn't run VMS.   H I'm not saying it should, as long as there is SOME low-end VMS offering.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:22:52 GMTm1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>e  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L8 Message-ID: <wf7J8.1971$fT5.516876@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KIB4FAKYJK96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...v > > Subj: Press Release DS20Ls >i1 > Somewhat off-topic here, as it doesn't run VMS.s >.J > I'm not saying it should, as long as there is SOME low-end VMS offering.  J Given the target market (HPTC) I can understand why HPQ isn't bothering toK support VMS on the DS20L. Unsure what the plans are, if any, for a low-costt# followon to the XP1000 workstation.u  L Once el cheapo IPF boxes become available the problem should be moot. In theJ interim, if a client asked me for a low-end VMS offering, I'd suggest thatL he or she take a look at some of the specials offered on the Island Computer+ site. Some of their deals are pretty sweet.   A Of course, there's always the eBay and Hobbyist License option...o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:10:50 -0400o( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com>  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L/ Message-ID: <uf9vcd5d8o3bce@corp.supernews.com>   A     It was previously called a CS20 when it was sold/developed bys     API NetWorks.d  ?     I don't know what changes were made when it went to Compaq,cB     but from a cursory glance of the DS20L website, not much other?     than a bezel was changed. (I suspect they made it easier tod     manufacture. Lets hope so)     mikeL                                                 Technical Marketing EngineerH                                                 Formerly of API NetWorksG                                                 Still looking for work.     = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messaget, news:cp6J8.21$oT3.618596@news.cpqcorp.net...E >       HP Introduces Powerful, High-density Server and Supercomputern< >       More Than 1,000 New AlphaServer Systems Already Sold' >       PALO ALTO, Calif., May 28, 2002- >- >-L > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >eJ >       HP (NYSE:HPQ) today introduced the HP AlphaServer DS20L server and HPI > AlphaServer SC20 supercomputer, which deliver to customers in fields as@G > diverse as entertainment to defense the power of a supercomputer in ae+ > space-saving, rack-mounted configuration.T >DI >       The systems further strengthen HP's position as the leader in themI > high-performance technical computing marketplace. According to industrygJ > research group International Data Corp., the combined market share of HP and G > Compaq represented 41.5 percent of the $5.06 billion high-performancewJ > computing market.(1) More than 1,000 of the HP AlphaServer DS20L servers; > have already been sold to customers throughout the world.l >uI >       "In high-end film production, quality is key and projects live or2 die3G > by the clock and our computer-generated feature film 'Ice Age' was no:L > exception. HP's AlphaServer systems helped us increase quality and shortenE > the design cycle," said Carl Ludwig, vice president of research andhF > development, Blue Sky Studios. "With the HP AlphaServer DS20L we can expectK > even more power in a single rack, deliver the high-quality rendering that 3 > made 'Ice Age' so unique, and do it even faster."l >sE >       The HP AlphaServer DS20L server, based on the 1U high-densitygJ > computing format, is 1  inches high, 19 inches wide and 20 inches deep.E > Each system contains two 64-bit Alpha processors with up to 2 GB of  memory.rK > As many as 40 DS20L servers with 80 Alpha processors can be combined in aw2 > single 6.5-foot-high rack-mounted configuration. >wI >       The HP AlphaServer SC20 is a scalable, single-image supercomputer L > based on DS20L building blocks. The SC20, which is available with HP Tru64L > UNIX, can combine up to 128 DS20L units via a high-speed interconnect and- > deliver up to 426 gigaflops of performance.p >eI >       "The new HP AlphaServer DS20L doubles the per rack performance of= the1F > nearest competitor," said Troy Deel, lead engineer, Zeta Associates, Federal J > Program. "The ability to pack this much power into a small space will be. > very appealing to our government customers." >sI >       HP, the industry leader in clustering technology, also offers theoL > AlphaServer DS20L in HP Tru64 UNIX and Linux clustered configurations with a ! > broad variety of interconnects.s >lE >       "To help us increase quality and shorten design cycles, we'vea combinedK > dozens of AlphaServer DS series units in racks to create a very powerful,eF > easy-to-manage system that works as one," said Mark Hill, manager ofL > mid-range systems, Corning Inc. "The new HP AlphaServer DS20L gives us theD > opportunity to pack even more power into a single rack and deliver > high-quality results faster."t >oL >       The new HP AlphaServer DS20L systems, rated at 132 gigaflops of peakC > performance in a single rack, have produced the highest sustainedoG > performance per rack (a rating of 724 per processor) for high-densityaL > servers as measured by the industry-standard SPECfp_2000 benchmark.(2) The= > DS20L also produced outstanding results in the SPECint2000,u SPECfp_rate2000c > and Linpack benchmarks.f > F >       "The introduction of these high-density HP AlphaServer systemsG > reaffirms our commitment to meeting the milestones we outlined to ournI > customers in our AlphaServer product roadmap," said Rich Marcello, vice B > president and general manager, HP Alpha Systems Division. "These AlphaServersI > systems will be particularly significant for customers in areas such asaG > government security, scientific research and automotive and aerospace K > engineering, which all need increasingly higher levels of performance buta# > have space and cost constraints."n >rL >       "The announcement of the HP AlphaServer DS20L is a strong indicationF > of the company's ongoing commitment to the HPTC community and to theL > AlphaServer roadmap," said Debra Goldfarb, group vice president, Worldwide > Systems and Servers, IDC.i >YI >       "We see this product family enhancing HP's ability to support theiK > broad range of technical computing requirements from the department up tooK > terascale workloads. The DS20L further strengthens HP's overall portfolio. ofI > products, enabling the company to maintain a leadership position withino then* > high-performance technical marketplace." >dL >       HP also plans to introduce a high-end HP AlphaServer family based onE > new Alpha EV7 processor technology later this year. The company has7 already L > begun previewing early versions of these systems with select customers and > software partners. >nL >       Pricing for the HP AlphaServer DS20L system, complete with two AlphaH > processors, 512 MB of memory and 18.2 GB of disk storage, starts at anK > estimated U.S. street price of less than $18,000. The HP AlphaServer SC20eH > supercomputer with a base system of eight Alpha processors and 4 GB ofG > memory is expected to begin shipping in August with an estimated U.S.o street  > price starting at $290,000.(3) >aC >       Additional information on the new HP AlphaServer systems isa	 available - > at http://www.hp.com/products/alphasystems.2 >a >       About HP > L >       HP is a leading global provider of products, technologies, solutionsK > and services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span IT L > infrastructure, personal computing and access devices, global services andL > imaging and printing. HP merged with Compaq Computer Corp. on May 3, 2002.K > The merged company had combined revenue of approximately $81.7 billion in I > fiscal 2001 and operations in more than 160 countries. More information - > about HP is available at http://www.hp.com.o >s >eG >       (1) IDC, Worldwide High Performance Technical Computing Census,r 2001.r > K >       (2) The SPEC benchmark is designed to provide a comparative measuret ofH > compute-intensive performance across a range of hardware, using source code) > developed from real world applications.h >o# >       (3) Actual prices may vary.i >  >k >s >eL > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >i9 >       UNIX is a registered trademark of the Open Group.r >2 >s >eL > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >eJ >       This news release contains forward-looking statements that involveL > risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than statementsH > of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-lookingJ > statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions include the possibilityG > that the market for the sale of certain products and services may notaJ > develop as expected; that development of these products and services may not J > proceed as planned; and other risks that are described from time to time inL > HP's Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limitedI > to HP's annual report on Form 10-K, as amended on January 30, 2002, for  the L > fiscal year ended October 31, 2001, HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q forH > the quarter ended January 31, 2002 (as filed with the SEC on March 12, 2002)vH > and subsequently filed reports. If any of these risks or uncertaintiesI > materializes or any of these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results H > could differ materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HPK > assumes no obligation and does not intend to update these forward-lookinge
 > statements.n >o >h >         newsroom >" >i# >                    press releasesc >e >F >                    press kitsp >  >s$ >                    feature stories >e >a >                    hp adss >e >"% >                    hp-compaq mergeru >r >  >h >o >  >o >f >  >w >l >S >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:22:50 -0400a% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L/ Message-ID: <ufa3jhf5bucbf3@news.supernews.com>r  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KIB4FAKYJK96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...i > > Subj: Press Release DS20LT >n1 > Somewhat off-topic here, as it doesn't run VMS.o >cJ > I'm not saying it should, as long as there is SOME low-end VMS offering.  6 An $18,000 box doesn't fit my definition of "low-end".   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:01:18 -0400i* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>! Subject: RE: RF74 HDA formatting.-- Message-ID: <0033000065903385000002L052*@MHS>t  3 =0AY'all seem to be missing what he's trying to do.e  . He has 1 RF74 with good electronics, dead HDA.. He has 1 RZ74 with good electronics, good HDA.   These drives use the same HDA.  5 He wants to perform an HDA "transplant" from the RZ74t2 to the RF74; retention of data on disk not needed.  9 Here's my two cents worth (at the risk of reigniting that  OT currency thread :^) )  : Guess #1 is that there's no way to do this when the HDA is' being controlled by the RZ electronics;e    9 Guess #2 is that you'll have to go ahead and swap the HDAa9 and then see how the system reacts to it, doing the usualn/ SET HOST/DUP bit and then trying an INIT/ERASE;e  > Guess #3 is that if this doesn't work you might need something> that was d|i|g|i|t|a|l internal (MDM?  System Diagnostics?) to make this work;o   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETd$ Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:44 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET! Subject: RE: RF74 HDA formatting.c     John Welsh wrote:t  	 > Hi all,p' > I have a dead RF74 with a faulty HDA.D >LC > I also have a good RZ74 and the HDA part # is the same as for thee > RF74.t >aB > Is there any way to reformat the RZ HDA to RF format structure ? >rF > The ERASE command only zero's out each data block,  the basic format@ > of the disk must be intact.  I have also tried DKUTIL but this > didn't help. >  > Any Ideas ??????  E I'm sorry, but I don't have specific experience with the RF series ofeH drives.  However, it's my observation that those machines that support = thetH RF (DSSI) series of drives have a console that understands the SET HOST=  H command, which is used to connect the console terminal to the drive.  O= nce H connected to the drive, there may be a format command that you can run.=    H Or, if this is not the system disk, then using the SET HOST/DUP command=  H (see the help, as you'll need more than just that) might accomplish the=   same thing.s           Stu=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:22:23 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>p! Subject: Re: RF74 HDA formatting.n& Message-ID: <3CF4D60F.93F5AB0@vcu.edu>  H Could this guy not use the scsiexer program from hp? it lets you twiddleE bits on the controller.  I'm not familiar with anything but the awrreC and arwe(sp) bits..   jim,   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:a > 2 > Y'all seem to be missing what he's trying to do. > 0 > He has 1 RF74 with good electronics, dead HDA.0 > He has 1 RZ74 with good electronics, good HDA. >   > These drives use the same HDA. > 7 > He wants to perform an HDA "transplant" from the RZ74o4 > to the RF74; retention of data on disk not needed. > ; > Here's my two cents worth (at the risk of reigniting thata > OT currency thread :^) ) > < > Guess #1 is that there's no way to do this when the HDA is) > being controlled by the RZ electronics;- > ; > Guess #2 is that you'll have to go ahead and swap the HDA ; > and then see how the system reacts to it, doing the usual 1 > SET HOST/DUP bit and then trying an INIT/ERASE;- > @ > Guess #3 is that if this doesn't work you might need something@ > that was d|i|g|i|t|a|l internal (MDM?  System Diagnostics?) to > make this work;s >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt& > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:44 PMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET# > Subject: RE: RF74 HDA formatting.o >  > John Welsh wrote:o >  > > Hi all,o) > > I have a dead RF74 with a faulty HDA.n > >nE > > I also have a good RZ74 and the HDA part # is the same as for the 	 > > RF74.e > >iD > > Is there any way to reformat the RZ HDA to RF format structure ? > >KH > > The ERASE command only zero's out each data block,  the basic formatB > > of the disk must be intact.  I have also tried DKUTIL but this > > didn't help. > >w > > Any Ideas ?????? > G > I'm sorry, but I don't have specific experience with the RF series ofiL > drives.  However, it's my observation that those machines that support theI > RF (DSSI) series of drives have a console that understands the SET HOSTuL > command, which is used to connect the console terminal to the drive.  OnceI > connected to the drive, there may be a format command that you can run.  > I > Or, if this is not the system disk, then using the SET HOST/DUP command I > (see the help, as you'll need more than just that) might accomplish the 
 > same thing.  > 
 >         Stuf   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 08:56:29 +0200# From: Lieven Marchand <mal@wyrd.be>e2 Subject: Re: S-Algol (Was Re: Future architecture)$ Message-ID: <86hekro31e.fsf@wyrd.be>  # Ian Parker <parker@gol.com> writes:a  + > I particularly miss the looping statement_. >         from h by i to j while k do ..... odF > where the 'from', 'by', 'to' and  'while' phrases were optional with > sensible defaults+ > I > Now I use Python which is the closest I can get to an elegant language.c   Try common lisp's loop   (loop for n from h to j by i
       while kT       collect (* n n))   --  L Honest praise, this stony part insisted, was what the bunglers of the world K heaped on the heads of the barely competent.                -- Stephen Kingj   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 06:24:25 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)s Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205290524.55c1117f@posting.google.com>n   "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in message news:<craig.berry-B9EA98.17424323052002@news.directvinternet.com>...n > $ define foo foo > $ show logical/full fooL. >    "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > 1  "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > 2  "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > 3  "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > 4  "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > 5  "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > 6  "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > 7  "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > 8  "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > 9  "FOO" [super] = "FOO" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  : Sorry, I'm a little bit confused as to how this happens inA the first place (but I am not that good, read useless, on Macro).h   [DCL.LIS]LOGICAL.LIS  . ; DCL$SHOWTRAN - SHOW LOGICAL NAME TRANSLATION> ; THIS ROUTINE IS CALLED AS AN INTERNAL COMMAND TO EXECUTE THE. ; SHOW LOGICAL NAME EQUIVALENCES DCLS COMMAND.  B This only seems to happen once? the way it is called seems only to happen once?   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 08:51:15 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205290751.1d97e99d@posting.google.com>e   "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in message news:<craig.berry-C13C38.20113628052002@news.directvinternet.com>...e? > In article <343f30ae.0205280657.76b75c86@posting.google.com>,e2 >  SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote: >  > O > > > > "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in   > > > > message L > > > > news:<craig.berry-B9EA98.17424323052002@news.directvinternet.com>...K > > > > > Why, when I create a logical name where the logical name and the   > > > > > equivalence P > > > > > name are the same (though they may differ by case), does show logical  > > > > > show 1
 > > > > > me rR > > > > > the translation 10 times?  Other mechanisms for translating the logical  > > > > > name , > > > > > only see it once.  e >  o# > > Your example does not cause any,% > > problems. The output is correct. - > H > Only if you consider confusing and spurious output correct.  There've     F How is it confusing? It is translated 10 times and the final answer isC FOO, which is correct. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree E about this whole matter. Nevertheless, I have made comments which are- interspersed below.c    J > been cases where MONITOR showed more than 100% cpu on a processor under I > certain conditions (I forget what) and it was rightly considered a bug nC > and fixed.  If you can't believe what the system tells you about e# > itself, then something's wrong.  r    < More than 100% is incorrect. FOO is correct and 10 levels of. trnaslation is correct and you can believe it.    J > In the logical name case it's obviously no big deal for those of us (of J > you, I should say) who can instantly call up a mental map of the entire F > logical name model and translation algorithm and infer exactly what J > SHOW LOGICAL is doing when it develops a stutter and gives you the same G > answer 10 times in a row.  But what about the operators who work for nJ > you or that rare end user who isn't afraid of a command line interface? H > SHOW LOGICAL is for them too, and it shouldn't tell them there are 10 I > identical translations for a logical name when there is in fact only 1.e    D You don't need to instantly call up a map of the entire logical name? system. The system is complex, but very useful, but also has itdA downside (which I illustrated in my last post). Re "10 times in as= row", that is exactly what happens during normal logical namei@ translation and I like that SHOW LOGICAL shows me what is really: happening. OTOH, I know you can define LNM$DCL_LOGICAL andC LNM$FILE_DEV to be different lists of logical name tables, and thenbA there'd be a difference, but I have yet a need for that and can't,C envision one. But if I ever do need it, I'll know what to do. But I  digress.  F Re operators: I haven't worked with that many operators but I have yetD to meet one who would care and I'd be happy to explain it to them ifE they did. I'd rather expain that to them then the "SYS$SYSROOT equals.E itself plus SYS$COMMON" mess. (That's *another* fun aspect of logicalyF names ... well, default system logical names, anyway.) Besides, it may' keep them from getting too adventurous.r  < Re "10 identical translations": It tells them that iterativeD translation occurs a maximum of 10 times. This way you can find that> out without digging through the manuals. And you can also tellA immediately that it isn't defined with the "terminal" translationr< attribute. BTW, the translation attribute is useful in other situations.r   > ' > >  Fixing it could be problematic. IfgG > > you fixed it for SHOW LOGICAL, then SHOW LOGICAL would not be doingv? > > the same thing as other commands, and don't you want it to?l > J > I can't see any reason for any command to iterate 10 times when it only  > needs 1 iteration.    D Here's one: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid [no offence]). Logical names> are pervasive on VMS. Fixing this might cause a subtle bug forB everything else in VMS, so why bother? Also, you have to check notF only if the equivalence name is the same as the original logical name,D but you also have to check whether the resulting equivalence name is@ also a logical name in another table. More unnecessary overhead.     > > Then they'd have to G > > "fix" it for all those other instances. When logical names are usedaF > > for queues, mail addresses, etc. Maybe that would only require theH > > "fix" in one place because the same routine might be called. I don't	 > > know.t > J > The whole point is that the answer is the same after 1 iteration or 10.     " I which case, why is it a problem?    F >  Anything dealing with the file system, queues, or any other system I > object is going to get the same answer whether you stop at 1 iteration rD > or 10.  So why not stop at 1 iteration?  If it's too expensive to      KISS    H > do a recursion check, I'll buy that as a reason not to check when the I > end result is all you care about.  So only do the recursion check when  F > you're going to show the results at each step, as SHOW LOGICAL does.    A No, because you want (well, I want, anyway (!)) it to do the samea: thing that happens during normal logical name translation.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmant" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:18:40 GMT * From: David Findlay <david@davsoft.com.au>+ Subject: Stopping Spoofing of News MessagesV@ Message-ID: <A90J8.193968$o66.575322@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  K > I'm sure it's obvious to everyone, but I didn't write that (I possess the J > sophisticated technical skills necessary to keep my .sig to 2 lines, for
 > one thing).h  I Load PGP on your machine, and sign all your outgoing messages. Get other sH people you know to sign your key. This way we can be certain that it is G you. I'd recommend all other sci.space.* users to do likewise, because aL there seem to be a lot of idiots in this group. I'm going to do it, but the J PGP implementation in KNode is currently broken. As soon as it's fixed my   messages will be signed. Thanks,   Davidi   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 03:19:37 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)  Subject: Re: Strange crash= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205290219.72585c2d@posting.google.com>e  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CF46A52.BDE7CDFB@videotron.ca>...a  2 > 	"CLUEXIT - Node voluntarily exiting VAXcluster"  < If a satellite node, a common cause was that it lost network? connectivity with it's boot node for more than a certain period0" of time (RECNXINTERVAL - I think).  > You might want to check your network interconnect for problem.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:47:05 +0100p% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: Strange crash8 Message-ID: <v3c9fu88hubvlicc1sdjsc364gvp337m54@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 29 May 2002 01:43:03 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:o  R >This morning, I woke up and my Vaxstation had done a reboot while I was sleeping. >-O >I don't keep a dump file on it. But the ANA/ERROR revealed that there had beenX >a bugcheck. >t6 >First message was a "PORT HAS CLOSED VIRTUAL CIRCUIT" >- >Next message was a # >	"FATAL BUGCHECK  KA420 FW Rev #5" 1 >	"CLUEXIT - Node voluntarily exiting VAXcluster"i >s >	Process name : NULL  >	Process ID   : 00010000a >m >The current mode was Kernel.a >t >mN >My all mighty microvax II continued to purr without problems.  Looking at theM >SYSLOG sent by my router, there didn't seem to be any incoming call attemptsh5 >to that machine in the minutes preceeding the crash.i  A You just lost cluster connectivity for a period of time exceedingtA recnxinterval.  You just need to find why. Bad ethernet probably.t     >sL >Since I was not on the machine at the time, I am a bit perplexed about whatN >would cause it to crash all by itself. Could it be the dust bunnies that woke  B Loss of cluster connectivity. That's what "Port has closed virtual: circuit" means. If quorum/connectivity not restored within recnxinterval then its bye-bye.h  L >up inside ? Or a power glitch large enough to mucck up that machine but notH >the MV-II which as a power controller below as well as the bigger power >supplies ?  >uB >(the machine was logged in, with a few editing sessions running).   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:42:37 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Strange crash) Message-ID: <3CF4BEAD.20F759CE@127.0.0.1>    JF Mezei wrote:  > S > This morning, I woke up and my Vaxstation had done a reboot while I was sleeping." > P > I don't keep a dump file on it. But the ANA/ERROR revealed that there had been
 > a bugcheck.- > 7 > First message was a "PORT HAS CLOSED VIRTUAL CIRCUIT"a >  > Next message was a+ >         "FATAL BUGCHECK  KA420 FW Rev #5"29 >         "CLUEXIT - Node voluntarily exiting VAXcluster"i >  >         Process name : NULLh! >         Process ID   : 00010000s >  > The current mode was Kernel.  D There are quite a few reasons and its relatively complex as to why aF system may perform a CLUEXIT. It is a graceful and voluntary shutdown,F in fact all bugchecks were a dumpfile and errorlog is written could be4 regarded as graceful because it is under OS control.  ; This crash and the error on this system says the following:E  E 1. The cluster interconnect was closed. The outage exceeded TIMVCFAILD	 (SYSGEN).6D 2. When connection was re-established, the remote node, for whateverB reason, had gone into a state which means that the current clusterC context of the node that is about to crash, was no longer valid, so G crash it did. Most likely exceeded RECNXINTERVAL on the remote node(s).7  C I would check the error logs on the system that stayed up, see whataF event there were, and also try a ANAL/SYS, SHOW LAN/COU and see if youH have any CARRIER CHECK FAILURES logged on the system that stayed up. Not conclusive, but may help.2  D The dump file would have had offsets into the connection manager and0 source code comments would reveal the reasoning.  F You saw the NULL process because the system was effectively idle. That@ does not mean however that the cluster process is NOT monitoring interconnects etc.  E I won't bother detailing what happens when virtual circuits close andmG why cluster reconfigurations do what they do, it's not really relevant. F My suspicion is there was a network issue. With the time it occurred IE recall some network events I noted at one place, which were traced toiE network equipment being unplugged for the nightshift to brew a cup ofo tea!  G I would not be worried about hackers on your system, unless they causedw? a router to fail or broadcast storm that took out the ethernet.S -- m( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 06:31:40 -0700* From: ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell) Subject: Re: Strange crash= Message-ID: <8debc3ff.0205290531.7acb480c@posting.google.com>o  ? The error message you have is from the PEA0 (i.e., Cluster overvB Ethernet LAN driver) device telling you that it closed the virtualB circuit to the other node in your cluster.  In my experience, this> could have been anything, from a transient spike on the cable,C ethernet hub losing power, etc.  It could also be a software issue,/- but there's not enough details here to go on.o   Ken Randella  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CF46A52.BDE7CDFB@videotron.ca>...eS > This morning, I woke up and my Vaxstation had done a reboot while I was sleeping.  > P > I don't keep a dump file on it. But the ANA/ERROR revealed that there had been
 > a bugcheck.a > 7 > First message was a "PORT HAS CLOSED VIRTUAL CIRCUIT"n >  > Next message was a u$ > 	"FATAL BUGCHECK  KA420 FW Rev #5"2 > 	"CLUEXIT - Node voluntarily exiting VAXcluster" >  > 	Process name : NULL > 	Process ID   : 00010000 >  > The current mode was Kernel. >  > O > My all mighty microvax II continued to purr without problems.  Looking at the N > SYSLOG sent by my router, there didn't seem to be any incoming call attempts6 > to that machine in the minutes preceeding the crash. > M > Should I be concerned about potential hackers accessing my machine from theiL > internet, or would such a crash have shown an actual process name/pid (for* > instance, web server, FTP, telnet etc) ? > M > Since I was not on the machine at the time, I am a bit perplexed about whatoO > would cause it to crash all by itself. Could it be the dust bunnies that woke3M > up inside ? Or a power glitch large enough to mucck up that machine but notlI > the MV-II which as a power controller below as well as the bigger power  > supplies ? > C > (the machine was logged in, with a few editing sessions running).    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:57:41 -0400f1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>  Subject: Re: Strange crash2 Message-ID: <3CF4DE55.D0755418@clarityconnect.com>  E CLUEXIT crashes are due to loss of cluster connectivity for more thanaG RECNXINTERVAL time.  There are 3 specific causes and I have ranked theme6 by what my experience shows are the most common causes  H 1) Cluster interconnect communication problems, ie bad network, babbling node, broken hardware H 2) Lack of free nonpaged pool to create SCS messages, this includes lackB of free physical memory to expand pool if it is below it's maximumB 3) High IPL software activity preventing timely SCS messages, like@ misbehaving privledged code and drivers, malfunctioning hardware* interrupting the system all the time, etc.  D A crash dump file can eliminate #2 and help on the host side of #1. D There isn't much of anything outside of special tools that will help with #3.   JF Mezei wrote:t > S > This morning, I woke up and my Vaxstation had done a reboot while I was sleeping.o > P > I don't keep a dump file on it. But the ANA/ERROR revealed that there had been
 > a bugcheck.- > 7 > First message was a "PORT HAS CLOSED VIRTUAL CIRCUIT"r >  > Next message was a+ >         "FATAL BUGCHECK  KA420 FW Rev #5")9 >         "CLUEXIT - Node voluntarily exiting VAXcluster"r >  >         Process name : NULLr! >         Process ID   : 00010000  >  > The current mode was Kernel. > O > My all mighty microvax II continued to purr without problems.  Looking at thesN > SYSLOG sent by my router, there didn't seem to be any incoming call attempts6 > to that machine in the minutes preceeding the crash. > M > Should I be concerned about potential hackers accessing my machine from theiL > internet, or would such a crash have shown an actual process name/pid (for* > instance, web server, FTP, telnet etc) ? > M > Since I was not on the machine at the time, I am a bit perplexed about what0O > would cause it to crash all by itself. Could it be the dust bunnies that wokesM > up inside ? Or a power glitch large enough to mucck up that machine but not<I > the MV-II which as a power controller below as well as the bigger powerr > supplies ? > C > (the machine was logged in, with a few editing sessions running).g   -- lC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYu0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@HP.com				- since 1975 or sou 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 07:06:12 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>R# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2O6 Message-ID: <20020529070612.16567.qmail@gacracker.org>  9 On 28 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:)I >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messagel3 >news:<20020528180654.31600.qmail@gacracker.org>...h< >> On 28 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:J >> >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")I >> >wrote in message news:<00A0E8C7.5C4B81C6@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...e >> e
 >> <snip> J >> >> Note that the logic of this decision has zip, zero, nada, nothing to
 >> >> do with0I >> >> the relative quality or VMS-appropriateness of Purveyor vs. that ofR
 >> >> Apache. L >> >> Basically, if VMS is gonna be an ecommerce player at all it has to run >> >> Apache -D >> >> even if some perfectly sensible sites find that WASD or OSU or >> >> Purveyor fit 5 >> >> better for them. >> >> 
 >> >> -- Alane >> >>  >> >M >> >so you agree with the "free" crowd that running popular, free, "inferior"mJ >> >software is better than maybe having to buy something that actually is >> >better?  >>  & >> Earth calling Bob? Is Windows free? >> eN >> Sheesh! You couldn't get a clue standing in a clue field wearing clue scent >> during clue mating season.o >>  J >> I don't even think beating you about the head with a clue-by-four would >> have any impact either. >> oK >> FWIW the whole point is to make VMS marketable as a web platform. If youmK >> can't see that then there really is no hope for you. If you don't get it G >> I'll look for some information on the word plonk that I can pass on.r >> s >> Doc.p >iF >who said anything about windoze ... apache is unix based ... earth toD >doc!  you make vms marketable by providing a web platform that runs8 >24 x 7 and isn't prone to the unix/linux cert syndrome!  ( Right. You failed to get that clue. Bye.     *PLONK!*     Doc. -- s6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 07:18:18 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205290618.591ca685@posting.google.com>o   winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0E9FF.77E16C78@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...j > In article <d7791aa1.0205280956.6546170b@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >> >>  > >aL > >so you agree with the "free" crowd that running popular, free, "inferior"I > >software is better than maybe having to buy something that actually is 
 > >better? > ? > Actually, I don't think that follows at all from what I said.' > G > I was addressing your assertion that Compaq should have picked up andtL > maintained Purveyor.  Regardless of quality, regardless of what's actuallyO > better for the customer, it wouldn't have been sensible for Compaq to do thatf, > because it wouldn't have helped VMS sales. > L > If you'd said "I _wish_ Compaq had picked up Purveyor" then I wouldn't be M > arguing with you - you're entitled to wish it.  I just think you're saying lL > they _should have done_ something that doesn't actually make any sense forI > them.  CSWS, while a technical effort, is essentially a marketing move;V8 > Purveyor wouldn't have been any help in marketing VMS. > P > (As to what I actually think: Free isn't necessarily inferior and is sometimesN > distinctly superior - compare stability and code quality of, say, NetBSD to F > Windows NT - and "costs money" doesn't mean "is better."  Free isn'tI > necessarily superior, either.  I wouldn't ditch Oracle Rdb for MySQL; Ie  > wouldn't ditch VMS for Linux.) > 	 > -- Alan  >   F sure it sensible for them, in a $ sense, as more people use apache andF that they don't have to write new code, just modify someone elses codeF to run on vms, but that's going along w/the crowd, and I don't believeE in that ... because when the crowd runs over the cliff, you are goinghG with them ... I believe you use superior products, not take the "easy",uG short term money-making way out, because in the long run, you will win.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:05:28 GMTiL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2u8 Message-ID: <00A0EA70.0F38BA70@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <d7791aa1.0205290618.591ca685@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0E9FF.77E16C78@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...uk >> In article <d7791aa1.0205280956.6546170b@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:e >>> >> a >> >M >> >so you agree with the "free" crowd that running popular, free, "inferior"uJ >> >software is better than maybe having to buy something that actually is >> >better?  >> n@ >> Actually, I don't think that follows at all from what I said. >> cH >> I was addressing your assertion that Compaq should have picked up andM >> maintained Purveyor.  Regardless of quality, regardless of what's actuallyeP >> better for the customer, it wouldn't have been sensible for Compaq to do that- >> because it wouldn't have helped VMS sales.i >> rM >> If you'd said "I _wish_ Compaq had picked up Purveyor" then I wouldn't be eN >> arguing with you - you're entitled to wish it.  I just think you're saying M >> they _should have done_ something that doesn't actually make any sense for J >> them.  CSWS, while a technical effort, is essentially a marketing move;9 >> Purveyor wouldn't have been any help in marketing VMS.s >> hQ >> (As to what I actually think: Free isn't necessarily inferior and is sometimes O >> distinctly superior - compare stability and code quality of, say, NetBSD to tG >> Windows NT - and "costs money" doesn't mean "is better."  Free isn'tnJ >> necessarily superior, either.  I wouldn't ditch Oracle Rdb for MySQL; I! >> wouldn't ditch VMS for Linux.): >>  
 >> -- Alan >>   >dG >sure it sensible for them, in a $ sense, as more people use apache and G >that they don't have to write new code, just modify someone elses code G >to run on vms, but that's going along w/the crowd, and I don't believe F >in that ... because when the crowd runs over the cliff, you are goingH >with them ... I believe you use superior products, not take the "easy",H >short term money-making way out, because in the long run, you will win.  H And I think that, as stated, is a perfectly sensible position if you canF make it work.  I don't think I've ever suggested that you should ditchH Purveyor for Apache so long as Purveyor does what you need.  (I will sayE it's sometimes necessary, even if not preferable, to take the "easy"  H short-term money-making way out because in order to win in the long run,/ you need to stay in business in the short run.)R   -- Alanc    O ===============================================================================e0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056XM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210cO ===============================================================================L   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:23:23 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)8 Message-ID: <o0a9fugf39cuioed60633846bkh6dfojf0@4ax.com>  2 On Tue, 28 May 2002 17:40:12 +0200, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:   M >Well, everyone (or nearly) knows that these guys from SRI are the former DEC,1 >Geneva Migration Engineering Group, aren't they?e  C Bob Supnik, main author of simh, is a former very senior member  ofRE DEC engineering and one of the key designers (or design team manager)"= of multiple DEC hardware platforms up to and including Alpha.F  F The VMS at 20 book credits Bob Supnik for the creation of the MicroVAXA chip and Supnik/Cutler as creators of the MicroVAX 1 environment.    From the book:  > "The sense I always had was that there were four key technical visionaries at@ the beginning of MicroVAX: Dave Cutler, with his creation of the MicroVAXB I system for early software development; Bob Supnik, who headed upD MicroVAX chip development and also wrote the microcode; Jesse LipconD who headed up MicroVAX II Server Development; and Dick Hustvedt, who& drove the MicroVMS Software Strategy. Jay Nichols1 Computer Special Systems, Manager of Engineering"d  > simh also emulates multiple hardware platforms (including some5 non-DEC) with the VAX just being the latest addition.r  0 Only charon-vax is a supported system of course.     >D.n >r >Bob Knowles wrote:i >> a$ >> I don't follow the logic, Didier, >../..   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 17:20:42 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)s( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)+ Message-ID: <ad32la$lht$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>-  ' In article <3CF298B5.12445E97@Free.fr>, 0  Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:B |> As HPAQ adverts for Charon-Vax, I guess it is the best product. |> 3  F I think it is the only "product" as the others are private open sourceG projects.  Which is to say while it may be the best now, I would not be E surprised to see the others pass it out in both quality and features.    bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:01:48 -0400r- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>x6 Subject: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash)5 Message-ID: <ad2qgt$tgep4$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>e  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3CF4BEAD.20F759CE@127.0.0.1...o >...F > There are quite a few reasons and its relatively complex as to why aH > system may perform a CLUEXIT. It is a graceful and voluntary shutdown,H > in fact all bugchecks were a dumpfile and errorlog is written could be6 > regarded as graceful because it is under OS control. >...  J That reminds me of a question that I need to answer soon. When the clusterL looses communication, how do the nodes decide which one will do the CLUEXIT?L i.e. if I have a SCSI cluster and the nodes communicate through Ethernet and the Ethernet gets cut.  H IIRC the node with the lowest SCSSYSTEMID does the CLUEXIT, or is it theI highest SCSSYSTEMID? We are setting up a load-balancing cluster soon, but H one machine has fewer CPU's and a couple of gigabytes less memory, so we( want that one to CLUEXIT if it needs to.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:16:53 +0100s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>: Subject: Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash)) Message-ID: <3CF50D05.B2912A68@127.0.0.1>I   Peter Weaver wrote:i > 7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message % > news:3CF4BEAD.20F759CE@127.0.0.1...  > >...H > > There are quite a few reasons and its relatively complex as to why aJ > > system may perform a CLUEXIT. It is a graceful and voluntary shutdown,J > > in fact all bugchecks were a dumpfile and errorlog is written could be8 > > regarded as graceful because it is under OS control. > >... > L > That reminds me of a question that I need to answer soon. When the clusterN > looses communication, how do the nodes decide which one will do the CLUEXIT?N > i.e. if I have a SCSI cluster and the nodes communicate through Ethernet and > the Ethernet gets cut. > J > IIRC the node with the lowest SCSSYSTEMID does the CLUEXIT, or is it theK > highest SCSSYSTEMID? We are setting up a load-balancing cluster soon, but J > one machine has fewer CPU's and a couple of gigabytes less memory, so we* > want that one to CLUEXIT if it needs to.  ( This is the complication I was avoiding!   OK here's the low-down.e  C 1. Quorum wins. If you have quorum and have excluded a member, that F excluded member must CLUEXIT when it reconnects (and reboot to rejoin)  G 1a. If you have quorum because you rebooted and reformed (reincarnated)RB the cluster, the other members part of the old incarnation without quorum CLUEXIT.   E 1b. If you have quorum as of an early incarnation of the cluster, andoE another member tries to join that also has quorum but incarnated as asG later member of the cluster, then the *later member* will cluexit. ThisrD should never ever happen, unless of course you've been mucking about with expected votes!  D 1c. Number of votes when two systems in the same cluster have quorum5 (partitioned) have no bearing, incarnation time does.s  G 2. If you have more votes but not quorum, then the less votes 'lose' asc above (1c exclusive)  C 3. SCSSYSTEMID has nothing to do with it. 'Figure of Merit' does, a F little too complex to explain but documented in VAXcluster Principles.@ This is the main other reason for selecting in any situation whoF bugchecks. This is worked out on basis of software version and votes.   C 4. System 'power' has nothing to do with it. Lowly network attachedt@ VAXStation have the power to bugcheck datacentre systems in some configurations and situations.  D I've gleaned this from experimentation, VAXCLUSTER Quorum, technical? journals and updates, VAXcluster principles, Internals and DatauG Structures, chatting to some in engineering and experience. There couldoF be some nuances or situations I've not covered that I have seen but it@ is pretty logical. Note that I've gathered this information fromD different versions of the operating system, and it's quite easy thatB something changed and what I saw was co-incidence. (Testing was at single versions though).  F Therefore I must warn you this is not necessarily the situation you'llA see. You'll note how complicated all this is. Some conditions arexF created by 'race' conditions, i.e. first to the post and even this canG have a bearing on what happens. In some cases decisions can be taken atrA random especially in larger and more complex configurations wherenD figures of merit are equal between sub configurations of a surviving cluster.  F My strong advice is to follow the documentation. The configuration youD suggest above leads me to suggest you have your 'big' machine with 2E votes and your smaller machine with 1. This way your big machine willdA always have quorum with EXPECTED_VOTES calculated to 3. Do not beRF tempted to set this to anything else, it will not help. The temptationG to set EXPECTED_VOTES to 1 to enable this system to boot in the absencetF of your bigger machine is opening the way for the cluexits I describedD above. That's the very least of the trouble you can expect, worst isA data corruption by trying to avoid or break cluster rules. I havesF TOTALLY IGNORED using a quorum disk but that does not mean you should.  B My secondary advice is to get hold of VAXCLUSTER PRINCIPLES by RoyG Davis, which explains the figure of merit, if you wish to go that deep.   9 Experimenting on a live production system is not advised!p  B In summary it is the job of the cluster protocol as a whole on allH systems to protect, predicting the cluexit is not simple and I know I'veH not covered everything comprehensively. It is not something you can takeH for granted. I know I've not answered your question, and without writingF a book (where's the update guys, hint hint) don't assume I've given it to you.b  G I don't know your config in any detail and presently I haven't the timeiH (and you're not paying me!) to work more on this. Take what I've said asE a suggestion, but I'll read any replies and comments and reply when Ii can.  H Ain't clusters fun! Hope I didn't scare anyone. I'm also rushing home so E&OE.- -- -( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 12:23:22 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)1, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins+ Message-ID: <ad2h7q$dv6$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   7 In article <P83I8.2493$06.328911@nasal.pacific.net.au>,o4  CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au> writes: |> .F |>                    The 2 and 1 cent ones only went away a few years< |> 	back though, but prices still marked as 2.99 or 3.98 :-)E |> 	What they do is that at the end of the additions they round up ifSE |> 	the sum ends in 8 or 9, like for 12.98 you pay 13.00, and 6 and 7e1 |> 	down. All even out in the long term, I guess.t  " All even out for who?? The store??  A Over here, if a place decides to forego the odd penny they alwaysaF round down.  Charging more than the bill, even just a penny, is likelyF to cause bad feelings and may cost you a customer. (It's the principleC of the thng, not the penny.) And, it may in fact be illegal.  I eat-D breakfast in a diner that does this frequently.  My guess is the oddE dollar or two a day they give up is worth less than the time it takesg to count out the pennies.a   bill >   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 12:27:44 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) , Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins+ Message-ID: <ad2hg0$dv6$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>f  7 In article <DA7I8.440$YV2.745652@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, 4  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: |> aJ |> That about covers the Land of Lincoln. But what of Kansas and Arkansas? |>  9 |> Why is Kansas "Kan-suhs" and Arkansas is "Ar-can-saw?"u  B More importantly, why did it change as I have audio evidence of itC being Ar-kan-suhs at least into the 50's.  It seems to have changediB about the same time that Kato became Britt Ried's val-lay after at@ least a decade of being his val-let.  :-)  It does not appear to4 have co-incided with his change of nationality.  :-)   bill3 (So, just how far off topic can this subject get??)d     -- 2J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   .   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:59:36 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"), Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins8 Message-ID: <00A0EA5E.7A0765ED@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  _ In article <ad2hg0$dv6$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:d8 >In article <DA7I8.440$YV2.745652@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>,5 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:t >|> K >|> That about covers the Land of Lincoln. But what of Kansas and Arkansas?u >|> : >|> Why is Kansas "Kan-suhs" and Arkansas is "Ar-can-saw?" >dC >More importantly, why did it change as I have audio evidence of it D >being Ar-kan-suhs at least into the 50's.  It seems to have changedC >about the same time that Kato became Britt Ried's val-lay after atCA >least a decade of being his val-let.  :-)  It does not appear to 5 >have co-incided with his change of nationality.  :-)   K I repeat, I have 1930s evidence of "Arkansas" rhyming with "Maw" and "Taw",tD so I think there were different pronunciations in different regions.M (In fact, my evidence - from square dance books written in Illinois, Chicago,eL and Texas - doesn't address how it would have been pronounced in New York orJ Los Angeles; I was under the impression those were the two big sources of " coast-to-coast radio programming.)  F The val-let/val-lay thing is curious; "val-let" is the British EnglishF pronunciation - the English have a fine history of pronouncing French M loanwords by English rules (which makes perfect sense, when you consider how  K much of English is derived from Norman French, and how weird it would be toeM have to know the etymology of any given word to know what pronunciation rulesnM to apply to it), and some people think anyone who pronounces French loanwordsmN by French rules is putting on airs (unless they _are_ French, of course) - andJ "val-lay" is closer to the primary American English pronunciation.  (Thus,M blank looks from English people at the American joke about the rich man whoseoD servant got seasick on a rough crossing - "how green was my valet?")   >billn4 >(So, just how far off topic can this subject get??)   Trying to find out.R   -- AlanA  O ===============================================================================b0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056eM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================I   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 12:42:21 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)l, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins+ Message-ID: <ad2ibd$dv6$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>e  8 In article <6u04fug4iu6biv76t20segui1elvm3fm31@4ax.com>,(  Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: |> dG |> Don't try to buy milk with a 100 dollar bill at a 7-11 late at nightgH |> either.  Memo to our internal travel office "Please do not provide me9 |> with expense advances in denominations of 100 dollars"   E Not just $100 bills.  I still deal primarily in cash (yeah, and stillaF work with PDP's too.) and have to be sure to tell the bank when I cashH my paycheck to give me nothing larger than a $20 bill.  I ve had troubleI with larger bills even in the middle of the day.  Clerks frequently won'tuE take them from strangers at any time becuase of the high incidence ofe
 phoney bills.    bill   -- >J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 13:21:43 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)i, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins+ Message-ID: <ad2kl7$fjl$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>e  ) In article <3CF26161.4D75C05F@127.0.0.1>,a+  Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:s |>C |> In my pocket I have a 2001 2 pound coin which says "Marconi 1901f" |> wireless bridges the atlantic". |> iJ |> If he knew what broadcast radio was like today he'd have abandoned it.   E Yes, but he actually knew nothing about the technology he is creditedtC with.  Most likely because he stole all of it and actually inventede nothing.  E Before he did his "famous" trans-atlantic transmission he visited theiC lab of a radio pioneer who was making regular transmissions between=G Wilkes-Barre and Scranton Pennsylvania.  Even after seeing this Marconi D chose to go between the coast of Canada and the UK because accordingD to him radio would only work over the ocean because it would require the salinity of the water. S  E Just like the case today with most software patents, Marconi patented=E something he didn't even understand and that the US patent office wasaC unaware of the prior art and thus found his way, undeservedly, inton history.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 13:24:58 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)r, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins+ Message-ID: <ad2kra$fjl$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>l  - In article <87bsb17ahe.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,A/  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:o |>J |> You offered Legal Tender, they declined it. Your milk, their problem...' |> (Be sure you have a witness though!)T |> n  B Not your milk till you pay for it.  They have the right to declineA service to anyone as long as it is not for race, gender, religion 4 or one of the other officially delimited categories.  D Nice thought, but reality is often (and most assuredly in this case) differnt from theory.h   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:46:53 +0100 (MET)c9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins; Message-ID: <01KIB49YW99M96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>:  D > Not your milk till you pay for it.  They have the right to declineC > service to anyone as long as it is not for race, gender, religione6 > or one of the other officially delimited categories.  @ Last time I was at 7--11, these other categories included being C barefoot, without a shirt etc: no shirt, no shoes, no service.  :-|    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:09:59 GMT ' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>u, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins* Message-ID: <3CF4FC10.7041AAFB@nospam.net>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  M > I repeat, I have 1930s evidence of "Arkansas" rhyming with "Maw" and "Taw",oF > so I think there were different pronunciations in different regions.O > (In fact, my evidence - from square dance books written in Illinois, Chicago,-N > and Texas - doesn't address how it would have been pronounced in New York orK > Los Angeles; I was under the impression those were the two big sources of-$ > coast-to-coast radio programming.) >.  / H. L. Mencken wrote in "The American Language":i  T      "The American weakness for spelling pronounciations shows itself in the case ofY      geographical names. Richard Grant White, in 1880, recorded an increasing tendency todW      give full value to the syllables of such borrowed English names as *Worcester* andl\      *Warwick*. In *Worcester* county, Maryland, the name is usually pronounced *Wooster*,E      but on the Western shore of the state one hears *Worcest'r*. ...n  $ One that I've known since childhood:  [      "... *Houston* as the name of the Texas city is *Hyewston*, but the name of a New York #      City street is *Howston*. ..."d   And the topical reference:  [      "... *Arkansas*, as everyone knows, is pronounced *Arkansaw* by the Arkansans[1]. ..."         [1]Z          The Legislature of the State, by an act approved March 15, 1881, decided that the	      namet[          "should be pronounced in three  syallables, with the final *s* silent, the *a* inp
      every]          syllable with the Italian sound, and the accent on the first and last syllable." But-      theY          Italian *a* in the second syallable has been flattened. In Kansas the *Arkansas*>
      river isWX          called the *Arkansas*, with the last two syllables identical with *Kansas*. The      peoplerK          of *Arkansas City* in the same State use the same pronounciation."s  < "The American Language", Fourth Edition, H. L. Mencken, 1936   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 02 19:43:48 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)l, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins) Message-ID: <IKLZpxvIaM55@elias.decus.ch>c  p In article <HbtI8.142856$Q42.7001476@typhoon.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) writes:( > Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net) wrote:@ > : On 24 May 2002 18:26:49 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill > : Gunshannon) wrote: > : B > : >In article <9f261edc.0205240546.56ab8dc6@posting.google.com>,5 > : > tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) writes:  > : >|> J > : >|>                             When Clinton was in the White House, IM > : >|> even heard a UK newscaster pronounce "Arkansas" as it's spelled. Deara@ > : >|> oh dear, 10 seconds research would have sorted that out. > : >aH > : >If you mean like "ar" "kansas" as opposed to "arkansaw" that is howJ > : >it was pronounced until at least the 50's.  I have a rather extensive > : A > : Surely the "Arkansas Chuck-a-bug" standardised pronounciationo > : world-wide. :) > :    That's where I learnt it :-)   __A Paul Sture   (who used to do quite well on the weekly Wacky Racesu* Switzerland   sweepstake we ran at school)   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 07:46 CDTu' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)h+ Subject: Re: [Change topic]: USofA'an coinsi- Message-ID: <29MAY200207463225@gerg.tamu.edu>o  Y In article <1020528164800.359A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes...i& }On 28 May 2002, Paul Repacholi wrote: } * }> Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: }> II }> > Don't try to buy milk with a 100 dollar bill at a 7-11 late at night G }> > either.  Memo to our internal travel office "Please do not provider> }> > me with expense advances in denominations of 100 dollars" }>  G }> > I was later told that successfully getting change from 100 dollarsiA }> > late at night was sometimes a prelude to armed robbery as itaG }> > indicates that the employees have immediate access to a reasonableaI }> > amount of cash. Therefore employees are instructed to say they can't G }> > change it.  In the UK I would expect perhaps "do you have anything E }> > smaller".  Not "we can't accept that under any circumstances" aseH }> > happened In Dallas.  In the end I had to go back to the hotel for a" }> > credit card just to buy milk. }> rJ }> You offered Legal Tender, they declined it. Your milk, their problem...' }> (Be sure you have a witness though!)m } = }I'm sure the arresting officer would be very sympathetic andh }understanding... not. } = }Witnesses are not enough.  Be sure to have it on video tape.u> }Especially the part where you "Resist Arrest" by impeding the. }progress of the officer's club with you head. } : }IANAL, but I think there is a limit on how large a bill a8 }store has to be willing to accept, legal tender or not.9 }I don't know if this is based on absolute value or value # }in relation to the purchase price.c } 6 }Many all-night stores and gas stations, especially in: }high-crime areas, have signs saying the clerk has no more: }than $XX (usually under $50) available for making change.8 }Every time they accumulate more than that in cash, they6 }are supposed to drop the excess through a slot into a }safe, which they can't open.  }--  }John Santos  @ The term "Legal Tender" doesn't imply what he thinks it implies.  = See: www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.htmlE  H The very first question and answer on the page deals with this directly.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.296 ************************