1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 30 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 297       Contents:& Re: ALPHAPC164, 8x128MB SIMMS, success9 Announcing June 11th meeting of WRUG (Cleveland area) LUG ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...  Challenge: Find The Fault  Re: cheapest VMS system in US  Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64* Re: Comments on HP rebuttal of Gartner/IBM& Comments on HP rebuttal of Gartner/IBM( Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date( Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date( Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date( Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date( Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date" RE: CONTROL T not working on Alpha" Re: CONTROL T not working on Alpha2 Re: CSWS: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?- Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning * Re: HP internal document: VMS future plans Re: HP swats at Gartner  Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?D Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?D Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?D Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?D Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???. Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???; Lots of hobbyist VAXen for sale (Amsterdam/the Netherlands) F Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...E Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...  Re: No new ALL-IN-1  Re: No new Alll-In-One RE: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales' Re: OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 - system lockups  OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...# Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) " Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins) phaser740 dcps, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information( Please Read - Very Important Information Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  RE: RF74 HDA formatting. Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?  Re: Strange crash  Re: Strange crash  TAPESYS ! Urgent!!!!!!!!-Process Management % Re: Urgent!!!!!!!!-Process Management  RE: VAX emulators  & FX!32 Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VAX to ia64 migration? RE: VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VAX to ia64 migration? VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2 Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?1 Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 00:09:02 GMT  From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com / Subject: Re: ALPHAPC164, 8x128MB SIMMS, success 8 Message-ID: <bnpafukr7b0mbjb5giatcmi6bpk1dpqavm@4ax.com>  B On 29 May 2002 05:06:59 -0700, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) wrote:  _ >lbohan@spamless..dbc.com wrote in message news:<96n7fu0d11p1aq3jtmtgq0dn141s1n2gc8@4ax.com>... G >> (this posting mostly for benefit of folks searching USEnet archives)  >>  . >> Just recently, I had good sucess getting a # >> Digital AlphaPC164 based system  0 >> (a PC164 exactly, not a PC164LX, nor PC164SX)4 >> to recognize a gig of memory, via 8 128 MB SIMMS  >  >Yay!. I'm running 8 * 32.   > What speed are your SIMMs?     60 ns.  afaict.     1 >- you set the jumper to interleave for 256 bits?   0 Afaik, the J1 jumper must be left open/out when 9 populating all eight banks, to use the full 256 bit path  5 (vs J1 closed, for half populated,  and 128 bit path)   , >Where did you find the 128MB SIMMs? I don't >imagine they are common.   < I found mine at http://www.memory4less.com/memory/72Pin.asp F specifically,  http://www.memory4less.com/itemdetail.asp?itemid=331209  	 3D Memory  72PIN SIMM Parity32X36FP 128MB Your Price: $79.30! 3D Memory Part No.: Simm32x36-60F   3 One caveat,  I bought 2 sets of 4 from these folks  3 (on different dates) and found I had to interleave  3 the 2 sets X-Y-X-Y-etc, before they would work.       6 You ought try for a set of 8 exactly identical simms,  if possible.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:42:19 -0400 / From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com> B Subject: Announcing June 11th meeting of WRUG (Cleveland area) LUG- Message-ID: <3CF54B33.2E1A2545@ix.netcom.com>   @ Announcement of June 11th WRUG Meeting (regular time and place)  Western Reserve Users Group , Northeast Ohio Local User Group of Encompass   Topic: The OSU Web Server   >   This presentation will be on the care and feeding of the OSU1   Web Server.  The focus will be on the extensive <   configuration capabilities that this Web Server offers and<   how it integrates well with VMS.  The VMS integration will>   include a discussion/presentation/demo on how you can do CGI>   programming just using all of that DCL knowledge that we all   hold.   3 Speaker: Richard Smith, Cleveland Clinic Foundation   >   Rick is an Information Systems professional with over twenty:   years experience.  He has been working for the Cleveland>   Clinic Foundation for the last ten years.  Up until recently=   he was the Director of Information Technology for Cleveland :   Clinic Home Care, but his title has changing as multiple>   groups merged into one group.  Rick come from a Neurobiology
   background.   4   Rick has varied experiences managing different VMS;   environments; he has been in the VMS world since VMS V3.2 >   starting with a distributed VAX 730/750 Network that spanned=   the US while working for Squire, Sanders and Dempsey in the 8   early 1980's.  He had the honor of purchasing the last=   generation of the Rainbow for $15,000 to run a "PC" version :   of MASS-11 -- the same month that the first IBM PCs were:   released for about $10,000 less.  In 1986 he moved on to;   Davis-Besse Nuclear Power Station where he was the senior >   system manager for a Cluster that in same way, shape or form<   ran every Digital solution that we all came to hate at the7   time, but now we wax poetically about.  This included >   ALL-IN-1, a huge Rdb databases, and an early implementations<   of Pathworks.   In 1989 he left Northwest Ohio and went to:   work for BP.  In 1992, he came to work for the Cleveland9   Clinic Foundation.  Along the way he acquired knowledge /   of AS/400's, MPE, Tandam, networking, and NT.    Topic: Merger Update  9   An update on the HP/Compaq merger news and information.    /   Relivent initial information on the merge is:         Jim Milton's Letter :       http://www.encompassus.org/images/pdfs/miltonlet.pdf     Roadmap <       http://www.encompassus.org/images/pdfs/prodroadmap.pdf#     Customer Presentation (6MB ppt) =       http://www.encompassus.org/images/MC_customer_final.ppt $     Food For Thought (Complete Text)9       http://www.encompassus.org/news/foodforthought.html      OpenVMS/Tru64 Newsletter=       http://www.encompassus.org/images/pdfs/hpnewsletter.pdf '     Other general interest pointers at: !       http://www.encompassus.org/   " Speaker: Randy Mares, "the new" HP  8   Randy is the LUG counterpart, a long time employee of 7   Digital/Compaq/HP, and a frequent speaker at the LUG.     Date:    Tuesday, June 11, 2002  Time:    3:00 to 6:00 PM  
 Location:    near the Compaq office at    Summit Conference Center   1st floor    Three Summit Park Drive    Independance, Ohio       %   A map to the bottom of the hill is: d   http://www.vicinity.com/av2000/map.mb?CMD=GEO&AD2=3+Summit+Park+Drive&AD3=Independence%2C+OH&GMI=1@   The office is at the top of the hill at the end of the street.      Directions: B   From the area of the interchange of I-480 and I-77, go south and    take the Rockside Road exit.   =   At the bottom of the ramp, turn right (west) on Rockside.    :   Go west one block; turn left (south) on Summit Drive.    B   Summit 3 is at the top of the hill on the right (west). Parking *   is on the north side of the building.    ?   The front entrance (on the east side) is on level 2. The rear .   entrance (on the west side) is on level 1.    Future meeting dates   August 13, 2002 ;   October 22, 2002 (moved back two weeks due to HPETS-2002)    December 10, 2002    Other announcements:A   The next meeting of the local HP (Interex) LUG is on June 14th, E   10AM to 2:30PM at Dave & Buster's in Westlake.  Contact Cene Calai, I   NEORGU President, at 440-788-2170 or GeneCalai at Quadax dot com or see D   the information on their web site at http://www.quadax.com/neorug.A   The meeting is on making systems more secure and team building.     Joe H. Gallagher Chairman, WRUG LUG dtrwiz at ix dot netcom dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 17:35:36 -0700- From: tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...= Message-ID: <9f261edc.0205291635.463ce1bf@posting.google.com>   b Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote in message news:<OF582EA29C.C6951C4F-ON00256BC8.005C4F6F@btyp>...K > Sorry Bob, done that living overseas thing before, and here I am, back in 	 > the UK!  >  > Reason being?  >  > I LOVE IT HERE!    Why?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 02:11:03 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Challenge: Find The Fault' Message-ID: <3CF58DB1.8C3BB67B@fsi.net>   , Ok, newsgroup naysayers! I set thee a task:   H Explain, in as few words as possible, how any of the following fictionalH statements in any way compromises company identities or confidence or in@ any way threatens or compromises corporate or national security:  	 Number 1: H Computing industry insiders today announced that a major U.S. publishingE concern has purchased over $200 million (dollars U.S.) worth of Alpha D computers and licenses for OpenVMS and layered products. An InfoWildB spokesman called it a major boost for HP and its recently acquired? OpenVMS operating system, long thought to be dead. In a private G interview, he said that this proves OpenVMS is not dead, but is in fact  alive and well.   	 Number 2: H A major midwest computer distributor announced this week that during itsF most recent fiscal quarter its sales were shored up by a large sale ofH Alpha computers to a Fortune 100 customer. It said that additional salesD dollars were received from the purchases of licenses for OpenVMS andH related database server software from a major vendor that it declined to	 identify.   	 Number 3: D HP's recent acquisition of Compaq Computer Corporation may have beenF justified by HP's announcement this week of a large uptick in sales ofF its enterprise server operating system known as OpenVMS. While largely? considered dead and on the decline in the industry at large, HP @ announced sales of OpenVMS licenses during the past three fiscalH quarters that all but erase alleged recent attrition in OpenVMS's marketG share. At the close of trading today, the price of HP's stock reflected C the market's knowledge of OpenVMS's generous profit margins as HP's G stock price increased by ... in spite of market uncertainties about the F future of the Alpha in light of Compaq's commitments to Intel's Itanic" processor prior to the merger. ...   - * -   D There you have it - show me *ANY*thing in the above that identifies,H beyond the shadow of any possible doubt, any individual OpenVMS customerG company or in anyway compromises their confidence or security or in any " way compromises national security.  " I dare you - go ahead! I dare you!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 22:19:27 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>& Subject: Re: cheapest VMS system in US+ Message-ID: <ad3k5f15gt@enews3.newsguy.com>   ) Baby Peanut <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote: D > It would be interesting to see a VMS port of SIMH since that would= > create a Boch-like virtual machine environment for the VAX.   J I'm not sure if the VAX version will work on VMS, however, the rest of theK SIMH emulators are supposed to work on VMS (though I'll admit I've not been 2 able to successfully boot RT-11 on my VMS server).   			Zane    ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 00:21:04 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64 * Message-ID: <ad3r9g$6bt$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  i In article <acibjm$6o6$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>, Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> writes: 4 :Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote: : K ::   We have explicitly NOT committed to providing support and testing for  I ::   mixed-architecture clusters with VAX and IA-64 boxes -- if there is  J ::   call for this when we get closer, we'll look at it.  We WILL continueM ::   to provide mixed-architecture cluster support with VAX and Alpha boxes,  H ::   and we will also add support for clusters of IA-64 and Alpha boxes. : J :So an Alpha machine A can be clustered against a VAX V and the same A can& :also be clustered against an IA-64 I?: :And thereby the machines V and I are in the same cluster? : H :Isn't there some rules about connectivity that say that I and V must be :able to connect directly?  I   Yes, a cluster requires total connectivity -- but as soon as you bring  G   the VAX into the configuration with the IA-64 box, the configuration  E   is officially unsupported as a cluster.  (You are mixing technical  A   configuration details with support and testing considerations.)    	--   C   Once we are closer to production use of OpenVMS on IA-64, we will D   then be looking to determine if there is a need to qualify and to D   support what will then be years old VAX hardware with EV7 or EV79 A   or IA-64 or other Alpha boxes.  Our stated goal is to get IA-64 @   and Alpha working together, and to keep Alpha and VAX working.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:17:07 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> 3 Subject: Re: Comments on HP rebuttal of Gartner/IBM ' Message-ID: <3CF54553.88DA7C01@Free.fr>   ( You should check your system clock, Rob.   D.   Rob Young wrote at 23:47 GMT+2:  > G >         A few opening comments.  What struck me as a bit odd, missing P >         from this piece was the wonderful catch phrase of "industry standard."I >         A powerful Wintellian mantra that has enamored the walnut lined I >         inner-rooms.  The one place "standard" shows up is in a section 8 >         I would like to talk about.  It shows up here: > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.htm    ../..    ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 15:47:14 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) / Subject: Comments on HP rebuttal of Gartner/IBM 3 Message-ID: <Vzw6NGttDMTV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   > 	A few opening comments.  What struck me as a bit odd, missingG 	from this piece was the wonderful catch phrase of "industry standard." @ 	A powerful Wintellian mantra that has enamored the walnut lined@ 	inner-rooms.  The one place "standard" shows up is in a section/ 	I would like to talk about.  It shows up here:     ' http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.htm   4 "industry-leading functionality and open standards."  B 	I like "open standards" much more.  That conjurs up J2EE, XML andA 	Linux and other wonderful - truly cross-platform - technologies.   ' http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.htm4   IBM/Gartner says:e  I HP believes in one-size-fits all while IBM provides the best fit for eachK customer's needs   HP responds:M IBM's iSeries and mainframe revenue is predominantly (e.g, in the 75%+ range)lM attributed to installed base customers. IBM is not supporting these platformsrN to be an additional "choice" to new customers, but as a cash-cow that requiresL little R&D effort on their part and which they continue to reap profits fromG costly & proprietary IBM software, maintenance contracts, and services.e  @ 	By inference, the non-core or specialized OSes at HP (mentioned> 	elsewhere) are not viewed as cash cows.  NSK and OpenVMS have= 	true development and substantial R&D.  I'll buy that.  Let'seG 	keep it that way!  But like iSeries and mainframes - because of their iF 	specialization - they do little in the way of raising their profiles H 	(marketing).  I would disagree that little in the way of R&D is taking @ 	place on/for IBM mainframes.  Why shouldn't they spend money on9 	R&D?  They are making a ton.  Here is a recent headline:   ' http://www.theinquirer.net/29050209.htme   IBM's mainframe makeover t     By Stephen Shankland e Staff Writer, CNET News.comI May 21, 2002, 1:40 PM PT  I For the past several years, IBM has transferred the technology inside its J mainframes to beef up its other server lines. Now the process is going the
 other way.   --  J IBM has conflicting strategies - on the one hand they try to justify theirN multiple server lines by talking about "best fit" while on the other hand theyJ are busy consolidating their product lines by porting the same processors,9 partitioning, and other technologies to each of them (seesH http://news.com.com/2100-1001-919579.html?tag=fd_top). In fact, IBM just8 recently axed its high-end xSeries, which is next to go?  E 	Axed xSeries, okay.  But more importantly it appears IBM is bringingw@ 	together their OSes to a single CPU architecture, mainframes onH 	POWER, AIX on POWER, iseries/AS/400 on POWER.  In fairness, the author B 	that penned the Gartner response did not know about mainframes at 	that time.n  J HP recognizes that one size does not fit all. That's why HP is focusing onJ UNIX, Linux and Windows for the majority of applications, with specializedO operating systems (like OpenVMS and NonStop) for special markets. While IBM haseM to try to spin their legacy overlapping (proprietary) architectures into some N sort of positive message, HP is taking action to consolidate and modernize itsK operating systems around industry-leading functionality and open standards.s  A 	I've read and re-read that paragraph.  How are IBM's specializedf= 	OSes any different?  Where are the differing open standards?o  ) 	Maybe this is a clearer angle of attack:6  N IBM is using Linux to try to unite their many, older proprietary platforms andM to try to look more "open" (despite the fact that special Linux versions mustvN be employed for IBM's archtecture - this is not Linux on Intel). It is not forM customer benefits, but for IBM's. Previously, they tried to do this with Java-C but never got traction. In a few years, it will be something else. s    @ 	This is a good point to counter.  My goal here isn't to counterD 	everything this person wrote.  I agree with quite a bit of it.  ButE 	I do feel many don't get what IBM is up to.  It will be as simple as@F 	having Linux as the underlying API.  Java is a single language.  What@ 	about the 10s of thousands of applications written in languages9 	other than Java?  Idea is to code some future version ofd@ 	Lotus Notes on a Linux platform and literally recompile for all? 	others.  Tweeking to run on Linux is a *whole* lot easier thanfF 	re-writing massive applications in Java.  Linux as an API is still a % 	ways out, but appears very doable.  t  1 	For additional support, back to this post again:i  Z http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=DnsYrCesjHYi%40eisner.decus.org&oe=UTF8&output=gplain  9 http://www.techweb.com/se/directlink.cgi?IWK20000731S0015n  O "In addition to rebranding the systems, IBM will use Linux as the lingua franca  that ties them together."    			AND  K "IBM has long promised server interoperability through Java, but Linux is atG better alternative, says Curt Finch, CEO of project-management software N developer Journyx Inc. "The idea was that you would write all your software toJ Java, but that takes a lot of work, and it was never a cure-all," he says.O Recompiling applications from Linux to other operating systems, such as AIX, iso much easier, Finch adds."c  D 	To suggest that Linux is a "Johnny-come-lately" strategy misses the 	mark:  F http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/00/03/biztech/articles/20soft.html  I IBM dispatched emissaries to speak with members of the Linux community, a M worldwide network of programmers who develop and debug the code. IBM met witheM academics, consultants, economists and venture capitalists to plumb the Linux I phenomenon. It made small investments in a couple of Linux start-ups, andl, offered Linux on one line of its computers.   A But last fall [2000], Big Blue suddenly got serious about Linux. i  M At the end of October, fresh from a global tour, Sam Palmisano, a senior vice M president [now CEO], reported that the Internet companies he spoke with told IN him that the preferred language of the young programmers they were hiring was > Linux.   [Language being the wrong term, but you get the idea]    D 	These are very bright men that don't shoot from the hip.  Will they* 	be successful?  Of course, it is obvious.  ? 	To suggest a Linux strategy is "for IBM's benefit but not the sA 	customer's", I don't see that.  Coding to one API and having an mF 	application run cross-platform, has long been a goal of many.  Linux H 	is that API.  .NET won't be.  Microsoft would lose all its leverage if < 	.NET was public domain.  There is no leverage with Linux.   	That's a very good thing.   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:03:05 GMTi( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>1 Subject: Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Dateh+ Message-ID: <3CF51839.5282FD59@pacbell.net>o   Warren Spencer wrote:e >  > Hi,f > K > In the "Forced Migration to HPUX" and many other threads, there's endless0M > debate regarding Compaq's (now HP's) committment to OpenVMS.  No one trustswL > the "roadmap" because as we've seen, roadmaps are essentially useless as aE > binding legal document.  So are "committments" (Alphacide). Another J > annoying phrase without legal substance is "plan of record", which we'veB > seen used in OpenVMS-related comments from senior CPQ officials. > J > Now I've a suggestion for anyone who cares to listen:  Put an expirationL > date on these documents.  Kinda like Intel declaring an "inflection point"K > in 2005 - we know the roadmap is "good" till then - but then all bets ared > off. > I > I'd much rather have a roadmap that I knew was good until (for example)oM > June 25, 2001, than an open-ended roadmap that can be changed the day afterg? > I release a purchase order for a product that just got EOL'd.a > E > This wouldn't change the fact that products get EOL'd, but it would K > certainly make it less surprising and less embarrassing for the customersTE > of the product.  It may also lend some sadly-lacking credibility too& > roadmaps and those who proffer them. >  > ws > -- >  > Warren Spencer) > Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)a > The Associated Press > > > ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **  K Agree. And when any product is no longer supported by it's manufacturer, itoH should be Open Sourced, so those who are committed to it can maintain it themselves if they like. -- :   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Franciscoc   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 20:03:39 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) 1 Subject: Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration DateD+ Message-ID: <ad3c6r$rgf$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>G  + In article <3CF51839.5282FD59@pacbell.net>, +  Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:  |> tN |> Agree. And when any product is no longer supported by it's manufacturer, itK |> should be Open Sourced, so those who are committed to it can maintain it  |> themselves if they like.   C Considering that even if VMS were EOLed it would still contain manylB parts that were proprietary and trade secret information, it seems@ highly unlikely that any attempt to force an idea like this into reality could happen.n   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 00:18:39 GMTR( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>1 Subject: Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Datee* Message-ID: <3CF57043.9643B8E@pacbell.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > - > In article <3CF51839.5282FD59@pacbell.net>, - >  Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:d > |>P > |> Agree. And when any product is no longer supported by it's manufacturer, itM > |> should be Open Sourced, so those who are committed to it can maintain it  > |> themselves if they like.w > E > Considering that even if VMS were EOLed it would still contain manytD > parts that were proprietary and trade secret information, it seemsB > highly unlikely that any attempt to force an idea like this into > reality could happen.m > N Although I wasn't thinking about VMS itself, the point is if you are no longerK willing to support a product, at least let your customers take over if theyv want. N I wonder how much SERIOUS proprietary and trade secret information there wouldL be in a product the manufacturer no longer wanted anything to do with ? It's> likely that that information is of no interest to them either.   -- i   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Franciscon   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:28:54 GMT:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n1 Subject: Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Dateu' Message-ID: <3CF583D2.CAB52249@fsi.net>w   Warren Spencer wrote:  > [snip]? > Now I've a suggestion for anyone who cares to listen:  Put and% > expiration date on these documents.l  5 Consider them to be like VMS passwords - Pre-expired!d   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 02:53:47 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Datea* Message-ID: <ad447r$8fe$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  V In article <3CF4273B.70BF624C@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:L :Agree. And when any product is no longer supported by it's manufacturer, itI :should be Open Sourced, so those who are committed to it can maintain ito :themselves if they like.g  H   That's nice in theory.  It can be difficult or impossible in practice.  F   Given that I somehow seem to receive just the occasional request to G   open-source or redistribute something, I get to see the fun that can lE   be involved in clearing all of the licenses for release.  I've beenkG   involved in clearing a few products for release.  In specific cases, eE   we have been told to forget it -- any one of the licensees involved E   can and on occasion have prevented the release of the source code. h  I   The process of releasing the source code can and often does take weeks rH   or months, and can involve layers of lawyers and can -- in some cases H   -- also entail such interesting side discussions as munitions-related    export restrictions.  C   If you want to work out an escrow clause, work it out in advance.sD   An alternative is to acquire the product or product line from the C   vendor (eg: anyone at HP can now get cheap OpenVMS licenses :-),  E   as has been done on various occasions -- this too can also involve p   layers of lawyers, of course.-    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:08:04 -0400i* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>+ Subject: RE: CONTROL T not working on Alpha - Message-ID: <0033000065958944000002L042*@MHS>   , =0AYou have broken the space-time continuum,! hence CONTROL-T produces nothing.-   You will be Unicized.0   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETC% Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 1:02 PM9B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET' Subject: CONTROL T not working on Alphaa    3 We are migrating from VAX VMS 7.1 to Alpha VMS 7.3.k, CONTROL T produces a beep, but nothing else." I miss my one line process status.F I am using a VT420 (ok, I'm a dinosaur) via a DEC 700 terminal server.7 I have the BROADCAST terminal characteristic turned on.c SET CONTROL=3DT has no effect. Any guesses on solving this? Thanks in advance.H (I would have put TIA, but I actually have the time to spell that out.)=     Howie Weiner howiew@ci.portland.or.us=    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:29:00 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: CONTROL T not working on Alphan4 Message-ID: <1020529172153.359A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ( On Wed, 29 May 2002, Peter Weaver wrote:  F > "Weiner, Howard (Howie)" <Howiew@ci.portland.or.us> wrote in messageD > news:ED06176444B7D511886300D0B70809FD03300A@ecntexchg.boec.city...7 > > We are migrating from VAX VMS 7.1 to Alpha VMS 7.3.p0 > > CONTROL T produces a beep, but nothing else.& > > I miss my one line process status.J > > I am using a VT420 (ok, I'm a dinosaur) via a DEC 700 terminal server.; > > I have the BROADCAST terminal characteristic turned on.e  > > SET CONTROL=T has no effect.  > > Any guesses on solving this? >  > >... > 3 > CTRL-T should work fine on AXP 7.3, it does here.o >  > Any guesses, > - Try SET TERM/INQI > - Try sending mail to your self to see if the broadcast message appears-? > - Try from a different terminal that is not on that DECServer-M > - Try BACKUP [000000...]*.* NL:X.X/SAVE and press CTRL-T (even if CTRL-T ism; > disabled at the command level then BACKUP will enable it)-M > - Try this little procedure and see if it returns "You pressed: CTRL_T_KEY"a > $ create wait_for_key.com- > $DECK-. > $ write sys$output "Hit any key to continue"% > $ assign sys$command sys$input/userM9 > $ edit/tpu/nosection/nodisplay/command=wait_for_key.tpua > $EOD > $ create wait_for_key.tpuA > mykey := read_key ;h) > message ('You pressed: ' + str(mykey));  > quit (off) ; > $EOD > $! > $ SET NOCONTROL=Te > $ @wait_for_key  > J > If it does not say that then something is grabbing your CTRL-T before it- > gets to the Alpha (i.e. the DECServer (??))   C Yup.  Good call.  On the decserver, check the port characteristics. B Maybe the "forward" or "backwards" character is defined as ctrl/T.E If so and you only have one session, it will do nothing but (perhaps)t beep.w  A If you are connecting via Telnet rather than LAT, then ctrl/T may-@ be set as one of the telnet special characters.  In fact, if you@ don't have LAT set up correctly (shouldn't have changed in V7.3,@ but who knows?), you may be connecting via Telnet instead of LATD and not noticing it.  This would explain the difference in behavior  when you upgraded to V7.3.  > (Another test of control/T is SEARCH, which will tell you whatC file it is looking at.  Search a large directory for a non-existentn6 string, hit ctrl/T a few times and you should see it.)  = CTRL/T works fine on all my V7.3 systems (2 vax and 3 Alpha.).   --   John Santosd Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 02 20:05:13 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)e; Subject: Re: CSWS: downloads, file attributes, -DCX-AXPEXE?B) Message-ID: <ozFwl8NMqPN$@elias.decus.ch>-  e In article <5.1.0.14.2.20020528073645.04a18008@pop.rcn.com>, Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com> writes:a4 > At 01:19 PM 5/28/2002 +0100, Phillip Helbig wrote:? >>After downloading CSWS V1.2 from the official web site, I getn >>% >>    CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI;1o >>B >>and not, as advertised, CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0102--1.PCSI-DCX-AXPEXE > G > You really downloaded the EXE, rename it and run it. The downloading eE > mechanisms don't know how to handle the longer extension correctly.c >  > Ken Robinson e >   H The other point here is that the CHECKSUM utility gives the wrong answer/ if you run it on a file downloaded by Netscape.   O Use the following procedure and CHECKSUM gives the correct answer (provided the  file arrived OK)   $! FIX_EXE.COM $! -----------& $ set file/attr=(rfm:fix,lrl:512) 'p1' $ checksum 'p1'w $ show sym checksum$checksum   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:59:03 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarningJ Message-ID: <HF8J8.142471$t8_.140127@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ( Absolutely true. Seen it too many times.  G Middle/Senior management rarely says "Oops, we fucked up in hiring thatm- bozo." Looks bad when it comes to bonus time.r  " Blame the hardware or o/s instead.  K Gets harder to do when everyone runs MicroShit and 'industry-standard' gearuI and people finally can say, "XYZ Corp is using the exact same hw & sw andyB their systems don't crash. Could it be the people we have on staff administering the stuff?"       8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:StHWvUrWVOQq@eisner.encompasserve.org...u9 > In article <921C9C353warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>,?/ wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) writes: F > > andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com (Andrew Harrison SUNUK? > > Consultancy) wrote in <abu2u2$o5f$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>:. > >f > > -- snip -- > > A > >>You can choose to believe what you want but as you know there A > >>is a longish snagging list with 7.3 and my customer fell fouls > >>of that. > >  > >N1 > > Anyone got a pointer to the "snagging list" ?o > >iL > > And which part of "test before you deploy" didn't the client understand?H > > Is the client upgrading their Upgrade Procedures too?  Where was the fall-c > > back plan? > >tK > > None of these is an OS-specific issue - but it does underline the read-pG > > fire-aim motto of the inexperienced.  They shoulda had an EnterpisesD > > Architect on hand to guide them through the choppy waters of the upgrade.L > > They could also use one for a root-cause analysis on this outage.  Since noL > > operating system can guarantee 100% uptime, the mad swapping of hardwareL >                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, > > and OS's is likely to accomplish little.+ >   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^I > >n >fA > No.  What it accomplishes is a ready scapegoat.  I have seen itt@ > before and it is happening elsewhere.  If you have a seriouslyD > mismanaged system, from a management perspective it is much easierB > (and job saving) to point a finger at the badly managed platformA > and replace it wholesale.  The person managing said platform is : > shuffled off to less damaging work or let go altogether. > G > What is *MUCH* less palatable is to point a finger at a badly managediG > system and get much better system management in place.  What happenedv" > or how did things get bad/fixed? >t3 > 1)  Senior management dropped the ball but is nowi > picking it up. >  > OR > 9 > 2)  Senior management shuffle and now things get better / > as lower level management gets fixed/replaceda( > and system(s) are much better managed. >,F > I've seen examples of just that also, number 2) and 1).  With 1) theF > question is, "how did that person get hired in the first place?"  InC > other words, badly managed system implies a bad hire (most of thetH > time).  In fairness, 1) often occurs when good system management movesH > on and the new hire was/is a bad choice.  Hey, the resume looked good. >vG > But to claim that the system/os combination is the problem is an easyaE > fix.  New hardware/os combo comes in and things are working.  "See, F > I told you it was a problem with the platform!"  Of course, the factD > that dozens of others are running the same hardware/os/application? > mix successfully... well, they don't and won't hear for that!d >c >  > Robg >  >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:17:55 GMTw* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: HP internal document: VMS future planskA Message-ID: <THaJ8.66223$Oa1.5717893@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>r  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KIB4366U7896WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...u   ...n   > HP has already shownJ > that it can respond positively to intelligent, constructive criticism of > its VMS strategy.   J What HP has shown is that it can make minor changes in existing statementsL that bother people.  While this does constitute a 'response' of a sort, it'sK not a substantive one.  And when one considers how even *strong* statementstF of support (such as the 'commitment to Alpha' letter) turned out to beH outright lies (at the corner-office level, not by the writers), it's not even reassuring.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:28:18 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s  Subject: Re: HP swats at Gartner, Message-ID: <3CF52BD0.3A84A32D@videotron.ca>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:M > (This was directed to partners (which I presume includes resellers) as wellwM > as HP sales.  SO it sounds like HP understands both the need to counter FUDwF > and the need to get some high-rank face-time to reassure customers.)  H If they know that its competitors are having a field day with the way HPI announced its "commitment" to VMS, why the hell doesn't HP annouce a REALeM commitment to VMS where competitors and gartner wouldn't have any credibilityf" in speculating VMS would go away ?  L Why is it that HP prefers to keep its vague public commitments and fight the/ ensuing fires to keep customers from leaving ?    L To me, the answer is very simple. HP intends to get rid of VMS in the futureM and its only goal is to retain the customers long enough to make a transitionpB to HP-UX easy once HP-UX has capabilities similar to those of VMS.  M Look at Tandem. Did HP have to say that they would continue development untilsN *at least* 2006 ?. No they said it was a strategic platform and that customers need not fear about it future.  G The problem with the "we'll maintain it until at least XXXX" is that itt7 implies the possibility of killing it after that date. e  M When you say a product is strategic and you intend to grow it, then customers  do not fear it beaing killed.b  L Does anyone fear HP killing HP-UX ? Has HP made "at least until" commitments for HP-UX ?   M Face it. VMS is on life support. The plug will be plugged as soon as they areiJ confident that they have solutions that will allow to retain an acceptableE percentage of customers. Until then, damage control and try to retaind remaining customers.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:46:31 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? < Message-ID: <H6bJ8.271$4i.89345@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  L "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:3CF47277.2030609@home.nl... > Let's see what we've got:t > # > Itanic performance so far stinks. E > Several major suppliers of "industry standard" servers have stopped-A > further development of Itanic servers, at least for the moment.mG > Rumours are Intel is developing a 32/64 bit Pentium to counter the 64t > bit AMD Hammer.DK > There has been (and maybe still is) a 64 bit Alpha version of M$ Windooz.8G > Now we get presentations about Alpha EV8 and EV9 designs, but why? Is G > Intel/Compaq/HP interested in showing the world how great a processorrJ > design the Alpha is, and how stupid they are not developing this product > any further? >e
 > Conclusion: J > Could it be we are witnessing a very carefull implementation of a plan-BJ > scenario ? (64 bit Pentium/Hammer for the desktop, Alpha for servers and > high-end workstations ?)  J That would require rational behavior on the part of the participants.  ButJ if they were rational, we wouldn't be here in the first place (and none of, the players have changed, just their names).   >dJ > Maybe HP management can look beyond M$ Office stuff and Solitaire, since> > their focus always was on mid-range systems instead of PC's.  K Unfortunately, HP is no longer in any position to develop processors:  both = the Alpha and PA-RISC groups have largely been sold to Intel.    >7' > There is always hope, isn't there :-)o   At some point, only for fools.   >8D > Oh yes, contrary to popular believe, Compaq did not sell the Alpha) > technology to Intel, but licensed it !!o  H So what?  That would only be significant if there were some major systemC vendor with the ability to develop processors who really needed it.e  F Sun?  They have their hands full with SPARC; if they go anywhere, it'sJ likely to be to Hammer.  IBM?  POWER runs almost their entire line-up, andK quite adequately:  there's no way they could pick up Alpha from scratch andeG be any better off (though had Alpha development continued it could havee stayed ahead).  G That leaves HP.  If Itanic sinks or even wallows enough, they'll need aaE platform - and while they're no longer in a position to develop AlphadJ themselves, they could pay Intel to.  But Carly & Curly aren't very likelyH to do that, since it would expose their own incompetence for what it is:A Hammer/Yamhill would be a much more likely lifeboat to jump into.l   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:45:27 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?C, Message-ID: <3CF54BEE.3BD3496F@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:I > That leaves HP.  If Itanic sinks or even wallows enough, they'll need aoG > platform - and while they're no longer in a position to develop AlphanL > themselves, they could pay Intel to.  But Carly & Curly aren't very likelyJ > to do that, since it would expose their own incompetence for what it is:C > Hammer/Yamhill would be a much more likely lifeboat to jump into.-  / Does anyone think Curly will stay long at HP ? G  J If Carly doesn't perform as expected, she will eventually get the boot, atN which point, her replacement may be in a position to reverse some of the wrong9 decisions made by Carly, at least those still reversable.u   <conspiracy theory> K Carly and Culry purposefully chose to put all of the non windows systems on M IA64, knowing IA64 would lag behind the 8086 and never be a success, ensuringeG that Wintel servers will grow and take ever larger chunks of enterpriser& computing because of their performance </conspiracy theory>  K Look at Windows. for all its faults, people still continue to buy that crapIB because Microsoft keeps promising the next version will be better.  N Intel could do the very same with IA64. Which would make it extremely hard forH HP to justify dropping IA64 since wehenever there was serious thought ofM abandonning IA64, Intel would provide credible promises that the next versionh' will have massive improvements etc etc.a  F Remember that HP is moving all its non-windows OSs to IA64. Once done,K abandonning IA64 would be a huge task. I think that Carly perfers to pleasenN others than to please herself. She'd rather please Gates, Groves, Capellas etc1 than to focus on what makes HP generate profits.    N I don't think she can say "NO". She will stop at "Maybe" for stuff such as VMS which she is not interested in.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:43:11 +0200n From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?-& Message-ID: <3CF54B6F.6050003@home.nl>   Bill Todd wrote:N > "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:3CF47277.2030609@home.nl... >  >>Let's see what we've got:- >># >>Itanic performance so far stinks.-E >>Several major suppliers of "industry standard" servers have stopped A >>further development of Itanic servers, at least for the moment.eG >>Rumours are Intel is developing a 32/64 bit Pentium to counter the 64. >>bit AMD Hammer.CK >>There has been (and maybe still is) a 64 bit Alpha version of M$ Windooz. G >>Now we get presentations about Alpha EV8 and EV9 designs, but why? IssG >>Intel/Compaq/HP interested in showing the world how great a processor-J >>design the Alpha is, and how stupid they are not developing this product >>any further? >>
 >>Conclusion: J >>Could it be we are witnessing a very carefull implementation of a plan-BJ >>scenario ? (64 bit Pentium/Hammer for the desktop, Alpha for servers and >>high-end workstations ?) >  > L > That would require rational behavior on the part of the participants.  ButL > if they were rational, we wouldn't be here in the first place (and none of. > the players have changed, just their names). >  > J >>Maybe HP management can look beyond M$ Office stuff and Solitaire, since> >>their focus always was on mid-range systems instead of PC's. >  > M > Unfortunately, HP is no longer in any position to develop processors:  both9? > the Alpha and PA-RISC groups have largely been sold to Intel.L  G True, but Compaq keeps emphasising that the Alpha (now Itanic) team is oH still working behind their old Compaq desks, and that only their badges D have changed. Changing a badge is not so difficult ? The same thing L applies to HP, and they also claim they still have their own processor team.  G And what if even Intel comes to the conclusion that Itanium is Itanic? .I Wasn't it a rather ludicrous scheme that Intel engineers were developing  C a Itanium, HP engineers were developing another Itanium as PA Risc rF successor, and that Compaq engineers moved in to make a third kind of  Itanium?  F Maybe even Intel wil come to the conclusion that Alpha is better then F Itanic, and now HP has taken over Compaq, no more competition between H those two either. If HP wants to, it can move to Alpha, and take on Sun #   for the best processor & systems.t       >  > ' >>There is always hope, isn't there :-)V >  >   > At some point, only for fools. >  > D >>Oh yes, contrary to popular believe, Compaq did not sell the Alpha) >>technology to Intel, but licensed it !!s >  > J > So what?  That would only be significant if there were some major systemE > vendor with the ability to develop processors who really needed it.t > H > Sun?  They have their hands full with SPARC; if they go anywhere, it'sL > likely to be to Hammer.  IBM?  POWER runs almost their entire line-up, andM > quite adequately:  there's no way they could pick up Alpha from scratch andfI > be any better off (though had Alpha development continued it could havee > stayed ahead). > I > That leaves HP.  If Itanic sinks or even wallows enough, they'll need acG > platform - and while they're no longer in a position to develop Alpha L > themselves, they could pay Intel to.  But Carly & Curly aren't very likelyJ > to do that, since it would expose their own incompetence for what it is:C > Hammer/Yamhill would be a much more likely lifeboat to jump into.y >  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:10:54 GMTo* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?e@ Message-ID: <OlcJ8.69311$Gs.6423217@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CF54BEE.3BD3496F@videotron.ca...   ...i  L > If Carly doesn't perform as expected, she will eventually get the boot, atJ > which point, her replacement may be in a position to reverse some of the wrongi; > decisions made by Carly, at least those still reversable.-  K Alpha isn't even reversible now, unless the EV8 team has been continuing tolI develop EV8 in secret at Intel (Bob the Mouth thinks so, but I don't knowsH anyone credible who does).  Otherwise, it has lost nearly a full year ofJ time, plus whatever additional time (likely another year) it would take toH regain the development momentum it once had.  Hang a two-year penalty onJ Alpha and the lies propagated by the HPS team become truths:  it no longerL has a sufficient lead over even Itanic (let alone POWER, Hammer, and - if it  appears - Yamhill) to be viable.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:29:20 GMTl* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?i@ Message-ID: <4DcJ8.54066$%y.6067168@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  L "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:3CF54B6F.6050003@home.nl...   ...e  H > And what if even Intel comes to the conclusion that Itanium is Itanic?  K Unlike HP and Compaq, Intel *does* have a lifeboat - at least if the rumorseJ of Yamhill are at all true.  If Yamhill is (or can be made to be, since itJ may well currently lack the on-chip memory and MP support that Hammer has)L comparable to Hammer, they will cover most of the product space (at least upJ through mid-range servers) that Itanic was supposed to:  this makes ItanicJ less attractive (it's relegated to a high-end niche rather than the volumeI market that has always been Intel's perceived advantage over the existingrJ RISC competition), and for the same reason vastly reduces the incentive toI replace Itanic with something better like Alpha (since Alpha too would beZJ relegated to that high-end niche:  that would have been a profitable nicheH for Compaq to have retained, given that Alpha was already perceived as aE leadership product, but would be far harder for Intel to regain now -@K leaving aside the additional effort that would be required to restart Alpha9
 development).e  G Besides, Intel has a relatively inexpensive development path for ItanicmF through 2004, since no significant changes will occur save for processL shrinks and cache growth.  That means it has little incentive to abandon theJ platform soon and can afford to tough it out and hope that Itanic can holdK onto enough market share that when a better version appears it can, as longnJ ago prophesied, blossom to dominate the market.  And during this time, the8 longer Alpha sits on the shelf, the more value it loses.  K There was at least a moderately credible argument for resurrecting Alpha at J the end of last summer:  Compaq was clearly in trouble (hence needed to doI something) and Alpha development hadn't lost much time yet (and was stillaK fresh in the minds of those who might be induced to return to it).  But nowtB the existing Alpha customer base has to a much greater extent beenL irretrievably lost and the chance to get rid of the incompetents responsibleC has been lost for another year or so (until the merger mess becomes L unmistakable).  Unless Bob the Mouth is right and Intel really has continued9 EV8 development on the sly, Alpha is well and truly dead.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:51:38 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?e, Message-ID: <3CF5779A.770E48A4@videotron.ca>   Dirk Munk wrote:I > those two either. If HP wants to, it can move to Alpha, and take on Suno% >   for the best processor & systems.d  K Very unlikely from a company headed by wintel croonies who state as loud asaG they can that they want to concentrate only on "industry standard" junkt (meaning intel and microsoft).    N With this mentality, perhaps what is important to Carly is to be able to claimM that all her systems run on "industry standard" stuff. Doesn't matter if IA64nM is slower than a microvax II, as long as Carly can state that her HP Unix runp, on Intel and is therefore industry standard.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:36:08 -0400t( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? , Message-ID: <3CF59018.1010104@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CF54BEE.3BD3496F@videotron.ca... >  > ..., >  > L >>If Carly doesn't perform as expected, she will eventually get the boot, atJ >>which point, her replacement may be in a position to reverse some of the >> > wrong  > ; >>decisions made by Carly, at least those still reversable.  >> > M > Alpha isn't even reversible now, unless the EV8 team has been continuing tosK > develop EV8 in secret at Intel (Bob the Mouth thinks so, but I don't know J > anyone credible who does).  Otherwise, it has lost nearly a full year ofL > time, plus whatever additional time (likely another year) it would take toJ > regain the development momentum it once had.  Hang a two-year penalty onL > Alpha and the lies propagated by the HPS team become truths:  it no longerN > has a sufficient lead over even Itanic (let alone POWER, Hammer, and - if it" > appears - Yamhill) to be viable.     Gotta question such logic.  N If you were to assigned the task of starting up a new processor design, there Q would be some learning curve, but I'd think that there are no real secrets.  You tQ should be able to hire some talent, develope some, buy some technology, etc.  It hC might take a while to reach the top, but it isn't impossible to do.A  H A bit like process shrinks.  If you haven't moved to the next, and it's Q replacement is already coming on line, you can just move to the latest die size. -P   Well, Ok, not quite that simply, there are issues, but that's part of the job.  H So, if an entity, (not doing any speculating on such), decided that the L directions taken by the Alpha people, and it's my impression that there was Q research on multiple directions, was the best way to proceed, and such an entity  N had some talent and technology and rights to Alpha, why couldn't they put the O task back into gear and get moving, taking into consideration what others have oQ learned in the intrem?  Alpha development doesn't have to start up where it left ,Q off.  Yeah, there would be some time lost.  But, if the people were of a caliber aN to get ahead once, then you'd think that in time, with adequate support, they   would once again become leaders.   It takes talent.% It takes a viable design, or designs.e3 It definitely takes money, such talent isn't cheap.v  O I'd think that it's doable.  If Intel wasn't so dedicated to IA-64, they could aP do a decent job.  It seems that some of the required talent and will to succeed 2 is at AMD.  Neither guarantees commercial success.     Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:29:39 GMT / From: "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com>hM Subject: Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?nA Message-ID: <n69J8.7073$fa1.153885900@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>f  , "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:B > So, is there a better or formally supported way to determine the > correct version number?b  + Take a look at SYS$UPDATE:DECW$VERSIONS.COMm   Jamese   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:31:18 GMTT. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)M Subject: Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?n2 Message-ID: <axdJ8.9641$305.162177@news.chello.at>  s In article <n69J8.7073$fa1.153885900@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com> writes:l- >"Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:IC >> So, is there a better or formally supported way to determine the. >> correct version number? >k, >Take a look at SYS$UPDATE:DECW$VERSIONS.COM  F So what ? This procedure does the same as the orig. poster's procedure   $ @SYS$UPDATE:DECW$VERSIONS.COM    Alpha (7.3, 1.2-6, DWEURO)7 DECwindows ident is                     DW T1.2-6010222 6 DECwindows server ident is              DW V7.1-0103176 DECwindows transport ident is           DW V7.3-0108207 DECwindows xlib ident is                DW T1.2-6010222 7 DECwindows OSF/Motif Toolkit ident is   DW T1.2-6010222t7 DECwindows apps ident is                DW V1.2-6010222n7 DECwindows programming ident is         DW T1.2-6010222    VAX (7.3, 1.2-6, DWMOTMUP)7 DECwindows ident is                     DW T1.2-6010221 6 DECwindows server ident is              DW V7.1-0102156 DECwindows transport ident is           DW V7.3-0108167 DECwindows xlib ident is                DW T1.2-6010221a7 DECwindows OSF/Motif Toolkit ident is   DW T1.2-6010221d7 DECwindows apps ident is                DW V1.2-6010221s7 DECwindows programming ident is         DW T1.2-6010221   K Problem is that the ident string is strange (eg. T1.2-6) in these images...    -Peter  G PS: Has anyone lately seen the VAX_DWEURO ECO ? Where to download now ?uN PPS: Did anyone understand why there is a DWMOTMUP for VAX but not for Alpha ? -- i Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERr% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:09:53 -0400l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)M Subject: Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF? K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2905022209540001@11cust44.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   F In article <3GpMeUqkaQKC@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul
 Sture) wrote:   N >On a system newly upgraded to V7.3 and Motif V1.2-6 the version number string- >is an unexpected T1.2-6, so this test fails.   J Where did you get this kit?  The "T" looks like a field test or prereleaseJ version of some sort.  I don't think a regular kit should have made it out the door with a "T".   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 02:39:07 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)M Subject: Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?w* Message-ID: <ad43cb$8fe$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  c In article <axdJ8.9641$305.162177@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:2t :In article <n69J8.7073$fa1.153885900@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com> writes:. :>"Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:D :>> So, is there a better or formally supported way to determine the :>> correct version number?d  A   No.  Each product varies.  In the case of DECwindows, check thes>   PCSI database.  The OpenVMS FAQ has details on some of this.    - :>Take a look at SYS$UPDATE:DECW$VERSIONS.COMo :tG :So what ? This procedure does the same as the orig. poster's procedurea :o  :$ @SYS$UPDATE:DECW$VERSIONS.COM :l :Alpha (7.3, 1.2-6, DWEURO) 8 :DECwindows ident is                     DW T1.2-60102227 :DECwindows server ident is              DW V7.1-010317a7 :DECwindows transport ident is           DW V7.3-010820 8 :DECwindows xlib ident is                DW T1.2-60102228 :DECwindows OSF/Motif Toolkit ident is   DW T1.2-60102228 :DECwindows apps ident is                DW V1.2-60102228 :DECwindows programming ident is         DW T1.2-6010222 ..    L :Problem is that the ident string is strange (eg. T1.2-6) in these images...  A   Yes, it is strange and it does indicate a (very minor) problem.i  E   This problem is, however, entirely expected and entirely harmless. p  D   These particular text strings are from the version identification C   strings from the image headers, and the images were not relinked  D   with "V" versions before release -- the "T", and more specificallyD   all letters "E" through "U", indicates a field test version -- but   that is not the case here.    ?   DECwindows has always had somewhat unusual uses for the imageA@   identification text strings, and this particular use could be +   viewed as continuing that tradition.  :-)e     Put another way, ignore it.G  H :PS: Has anyone lately seen the VAX_DWEURO ECO ? Where to download now ?     ? M   ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/vax/v5.5-2/decwindows_motif/1.2-4/h  O :PPS: Did anyone understand why there is a DWMOTMUP for VAX but not for Alpha ?a     ?2  G   ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/vax/v7.3/vaxdwmotmup01_073.*A@   .../public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_dw_mot_mup-v0100--4.*     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:34:31 GMT A From: "H. McDaniel" <Cut_of_Xs_to_Reply_xxmcdaniel_san@yahoo.com>W7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???E) Message-ID: <3CF51202.87A59FA5@yahoo.com>    Miguel Cruz wrote:  ) > Nomen Nescio  <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:eB > > Jeezus, take a break JF!  You've been trolling round the clock > > nonstop. > >o2 > > Did you just get out of prison or something??? >fK > What is up with the pre-school insults in this newsgroup? Where do peoplee > like that come from? >dD > JF has a unique personality, but he's always treated everyone with > consideration and dignity.  H I recall he insulted female astronauts once.  But I haven't been reading* here (s.s.shuttle) for a couple of months.  	 -McDanieln   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:58:34 -0400o& From: "Rick C" <pixel_cat@hotmail.com>7 Subject: Re: JF Mezei did you just get out of prison???nA Message-ID: <KmaJ8.57467$Bo3.4679898@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>9  L It is probably worth pointing out at this point that this thread is a troll.% Look at the Newsgroups: line, people.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:41:02 +0200aB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>D Subject: Lots of hobbyist VAXen for sale (Amsterdam/the Netherlands)7 Message-ID: <3CF520BE.5674@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>c  : I noticed an ad from someone who sells a lot of Vaxen for > what I  think is a fair price. Like Vax 4000 VLC for EUR 10,-  and Vax 4000-60 for EUR 15,- v  0 You can find the ad on http://www.marktplaats.nl: category : computers hardware, subcategory : sun/unix/sgi % The date of the 4 ads are 30-apr-2002t) (or mail direct to rschipper@tribase.nl).t  = B.t.w. I have nothing to do with it, except that I'm now the e proud owner of a 4000-60 :-)   --   ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:23:41 GMTy1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>oO Subject: Re: Memo:  Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...l' Message-ID: <3CF58296.1CA29076@fsi.net>c   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:a >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > [snip]eH >  > At the very least, can you say "a major (industry name) concern" or' >  > "a fortune {10|100|1000} company"?  > I > Many companies consider information about their I.T. resources to be ofr> > strategic value, and do not want this information given out.  H Then *DON'T*!!! Notice that in the two examples above, *NO* *WHERE* do IG mention giving any hint about identity, or anything else that could tiet( back directly to an individual business.   > [snip]B > And consider that everyone in this newsgroup / mailing list is a/ > potential customer or employer of any poster.h  F I might revise that to say most posters here are employed by potentialD customers or employers of other posters. Few, if any, of us are in aG position to hire/fire anyone, much less having the purchasing authorityy% to authorize a consultant's contract.-   > [snip]? > Even giving the fortune rating of a company can be a problem.d  A Sorry. Gotta call ya on that one. Be specific, cite examples (but A remember not to mention any company names or industries - real or  fictional - in your examples).  H > Unless you get official permission of what ever corporate spokesman is? > responsible, an employee or consultant must not say anything.   E So is NDA assumed now, unless stated otherwise? Granted judgement andrF sense are hardly common commodities these days... (Partly explains the VMS predicament, no?)s  F > U.S. Government agencies are generally prohibited from endorsing anyJ > specific product and must be vendor neutral in appearance.  Occasionally7 > one of their contractors can make a statement though.u  H You mean, like stating that you sold a certain amount or dollar value ofF stuff, but not saying who you sold it to or during what time frame youD sold it (as I have repeatedly suggested, but it seems to continue to "fall on deaf ears")?   ) >  > This stealth nonsense is KILLING us!  >  > Nothing stealth about it.r  + Well, yes there is. That's why I posted it.-  H > It appears that there is a strict protocol required by the lawyers for) > giving out information about customers.:  H Then follow the requirements of protocol, but say what you can when ever and where ever you can!r  C If you want a closed-mouth approach, there's always VMS Marketing -.G they're *REAL* good at keeping things undercover (probably took lessons  from the "men in black").    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 17:16:17 -0700- From: tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) N Subject: Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...= Message-ID: <9f261edc.0205291616.38370f9a@posting.google.com>g  l Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CF50D40.7009025C@blueyonder.co.uk>...  6 [snip, getting too long even before my bullsh!t below]  I > > Another related thang - anyone else think there can be something of aaG > > 'project manager conspiracy'? It must be more impressive for PMs to G > > have (say) "migration of major business systems from XYZ to ABC" ondH > > their CV/resume than just "kept the existing OpenVMS systems going && > > ensuring their long-term health".# > J > Bah, project managing is part of the day job for a VMS sysmgr, or should > be.h  : Spot-on - it should be. Just get the bastards who sign the, cheques/checks to even *conceive* that idea.  > I should add that I don't harbour any "racism" towards projectF managers (I've worked with some brilliant ones). Just depends on theirD attitude, realism, and understanding of the underlying issues. OTOH,F they may themselves have been unwittingly handed a poisoned chalice...  A BTW, Alan SSRL - very interesting post. I'm sure I'm not the onlyn< person in c.o.v for whom it rings a whole chorus of bells...  E Brief example of mine: at a contract a few years back, I had to renewuC a VMS licence for a production system (for a major UK co). It was aaE rental licence; I got a quote for another year's rental - it was verynD expensive. So, I got a quote for the outright purchase. Only 400UKPE (say $700USD) more than a year's rental to *buy* the f***er outright.e= I submitted this for approval - answer was no. Apparently thesC *purchase* made it a capital expenditure (ie: CapEx - not allowed). E Whereas 'operational expenditure' (OpEx - such as licence rental) wasyE allowed. Checked back through the paperwork - they had been *renting*dE this licence for 4 years. An incredible *WASTE* of money. Coulda paid2- for an Op to get into a tech department, etc.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:34:42 -0400F- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: No new ALL-IN-1, Message-ID: <3CF52D50.30F1D2C9@videotron.ca>   > Bob Knowles wrote: > $ > This question has arisen before in; > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/MandM_forum.htmlc  M Mr Knowles, having tyhe Office Server as part of the hobbyist programme wouldlI do publicity for you. There may be some hidden trick to get it going, butlL those who get hobbyist licences won't see Offoce server listed and won't try to install it.  O If you had it part of the Hobbyist, you might get more people interested in it.i  M Over the years in this newsgroup, people have been receptive to A1 having the-Q ability to serve your emails over the web, character cell, PC clients, imap, pop..  J Most people think of ALL-IN-1 as some slow menu system for secretaries andL don't realise its tre power. Giving them an easy incentive to install it andR see all the example in the source code etc etc might get you some more supporters.  L But in the end, it is your decision if you do not wish to be included in theI hobbyist programme. As I recall you wouldn't really have to list a finger>1 since the fine folks at Montagar do all the work.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:56:44 GMTs1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)V Subject: Re: No new Alll-In-Onet; Message-ID: <ggbJ8.52579$9z5.3399130@typhoon.austin.rr.com>   K Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr (winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU) wrote:t : L : What's really sad is that HP developed what was reputed to be an excellentL : Exchange replacement called OpenMail (on HP-UX and Linux), with a bunch ofJ : enthusiastic people in the group - who then, apparently, weren't allowedK : to market it aggressively and eventually had the project cancelled under  ( : them because it wasn't selling enough. : F : (Everything after "apparently" in the above sentence is my surmise.) : C H-P stopped selling OpenMail, but has since licensed it to Samsung:Y  /    http://www.openmail.com/cyc/om/00/index.htmls    OpenMail   #   "OpenMail is no longer available i  I    From November 1st 2001 Hewlett-Packard stopped selling OpenMail to newrI    customers. Evaluation copies of OpenMail are also no longer available.cB    HP has announced that OpenMail 7.0 is the last major release of6    OpenMail. Click here to read the full announcement.    oB    Existing customers can continue to purchase additional licenses    dC    It is still possible for existing Openmail customers to purchasesB    additional licenses. Please click here for further information.    o6    Samsung SDS and HP sign OpenMail license agreement.    yI    On November 13th 2001 Hewlett-Packard Company and Samsung SDS signed ae@    licensing agreement allowing SDS to develop, enhance and sellE    messaging solutions built on HP's OpenMail e-mail server software.,=    Click here to read the full announcement or go directly toe    www.samsungcontact.com.    d    OpenMail Downloads     iD    OpenMail downloads are only available to customers that have beenD    issued with a valid user id and password. Click here to go to the    OpenMail download page.    n    What is OpenMail?    tA    OpenMail is a UNIX and Linux based messaging and collaboration G    solution. Designed for heterogeneous environments, OpenMail not onlyuH    facilitates different client desktops and multiple messaging systems,A    but is also built on open standards. It prevents lock-in while G    providing the lowest total cost of ownership of any messaging system     on the market.d  I    With a server that runs on HP-UX, AIX, Solaris and Linux, OpenMail caneI    also interoperate with servers from other leading vendors. OpenMail is H    a standards-based Internet technology, supporting transport standardsF    such as SMTP/MIME, client access standards including MAPI, POP3 and;    IMAP4, and directory standards including LDAP and X.500. F    OpenMail supports many of the leading desktop clients, and includesD    OpenMail clients to meet the varying needs of customers. OpenMailB    provides: low cost of ownership; proven design; scalability and    reliability."  =    http://www.openmail.hp.com/cyc/om/00/showfile.cgi?100-1757tD    HP and Samsung SDS Sign Licensing Agreement for OpenMail Software  	    [snip]   F   "Initially released in 1990, OpenMail software has been used by moreG    than 60 percent of Fortune 1000 companies. As the only e-mail server F    apart from Microsoft Exchange to support a wide range of important;    Microsoft Outlook features, OpenMail software provides awI    cost-sensitive enterprise solution allowing deployment of thousands ornC    even millions of users on a single server. SDS has used OpenMail E    software as the basis of its own internal communication system for0E    five years, providing reliable communications across the company'so    230,000 users..."   Calendaring is mentioned at:  -    http://www.samsungcontact.com/customer.pdf2    Customer InformationM  H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaila   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:10:19 -0400 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: No new Alpha sales2- Message-ID: <0033000065959392000002L022*@MHS>V  D =0A  And unfortunately there are organizations who think that buyingE   10,000 TOY TRUCKS to carry that ton is the most efficient solution.g  H A crude analogy - you need a new pickup truck to carry 1 ton. You have = saylH $15,000 to spend (don't know if this a realistic number, but say it is)= .tH Your choice is to buy a low-end pickup (but fully loaded) that meets yo= urH needs today but can't carry any more than 1 ton, or buy a stripped-down=  H version of a more capable truck that would be able to carry more and/or=  has& more tuning options/aftermarket parts.  H The reality is that relatively few organizations or people upgrade what=  theyrH buy. The simply get rid of what they bought in favor of a newer model w= hen2H the machine (or truck) no longer meets their needs (or the ashtray gets=   full).  H That's why lots of companies don't care whether something scales within=  aF single box. And not enough know about clustering to 'recycle' existing hardware to new purposes.=   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:19:42 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesmI Message-ID: <2Z8J8.128592$ah_.14728@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    My "5" runs like a charm.m    < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message2 news:vO7J8.1981$fT5.527430@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net... >T0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > news:RK7J8.142298$t8_.99882@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...a > >t@ > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message5 > > news:MuQI8.155$fT5.140272@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...@ > > >.I > > > I haven't been in the employ of an NSA subsidiary  for more than 30e > yearse > > now....  > >rE > > Shouldn't that have been phrased as, "I cannot confirm nor deny Ir haven'tiK > > been in the employ of an NSA subsidiary for more than 30 years now...."  > >eL > > Say, why's that unmarked car been parked outside your house for the past 3S	 > > days?i >rK > Oh, you must be referring to my BMW from Hell. Sucker's been parked thereC > for a month now... >a >.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:20:35 GMT2# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: No new Alpha saleswI Message-ID: <TZ8J8.128602$ah_.58321@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   H 100k - is that # of messages or is that just one HTML-formatted message?    < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message2 news:TN7J8.1980$fT5.527272@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net... >10 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > news:xM7J8.142300$t8_.25422@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... , > > Rose Mary Woods on backup duty that day? >pJ > Naaahhh.... there just would have been an 18-minute gap. Ironically, the 18I > minutes of infamy achieved a lot more notoriety than did the 100K or soi > "lost" emails. >  >g >w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:52:52 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d Subject: Re: No new Alpha salest, Message-ID: <3CF53191.EB4D5811@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:eM > customers too? What's taking her so long to do this, or doesn't she and thecB > rest of upper management care about the erosion of the VMS base?  N That is the poblem. They do care about the erosion of the VMS base. As long asM it erodes within the expected rates, they are happy. If it erodes faster thanxJ expected, then they covertly change texts on their web sites and give someJ hints to the sales force on how to try a bit harder to prevent defections.  I In my opinion, HP sees VMS as a liability, not an asset. But they see VMSeJ customers as potential HP-UX customers who would cost less to acquire than non-HP customers.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:07:55 GMTF* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: No new Alpha saleso@ Message-ID: <vyaJ8.68637$Gs.6337055@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:Lq8J8.128462$ah_.34080@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  >r7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageo< > news:ZaRI8.48693$Kp.5012136@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...   ...s   > > About the closest to > anK > > apples-to-apples comparison you could get would be to run the test on a H > > 32-processor E15K and see how it compared with the maxed-out GS box, usingo' > > top-of-the-line processors in each.o >hJ > Yes, but....a lot of times the purchasing decision has no bearing on theK > technical merits of how high or linearly the thing scales. It often comesh@ > down to the question of "How much bang can I buy for my buck".  K That would be a relevant comment if we were discussing purchasing decisions(C (or even cost/effectiveness) rather than per-processor performance.-  K It's even less relevant given that Sun's pricing structure in general seems_H to be considerably more aggressive than Alpha's (can you say 'cash cow'?J the term seems even more appropriate now that its food supply has been cutA off in expectation of its demise).  Even if Alpha *did* seriouslyrB out-perform USIII (and the speed bump to 1224 MHz and on-chip glueE enhancements in EV7 will likely restore that situation) it would onlynL compete successfully if cHumPaq passed along the efficiencies resulting fromF requiring fewer processors to customers in the form of reduced prices.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:59:28 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>L Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesnI Message-ID: <k3dJ8.144237$t8_.15529@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message/' news:0033000065959392000002L022*@MHS...0  J > And unfortunately there are organizations who think that > buying 10,000> TOY TRUCKS to carry that ton is the > most efficient solution.    H And that happens when they permit their executives and HR departments toK hire based on the fallacy that 1 year of experience ten times = 10 years ofp experience.    ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 00:38:49 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 - system lockups* Message-ID: <ad3sap$6bt$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  m In article <b367fb16.0205240224.6fd0edcc@posting.google.com>, martin.platts@cdl.co.uk (Martin Platts) writes:cC :Anyone else had total system lockups - including the console (left G :with a flashing cursor only) - able to halt the system to chevron, but'G :unable to crash the system (so no dump ;-) - reboot the system and alli :is ok.h : D :Have had a couple of different systems do it now (I believe) - bothD :with all the latest patches (bar the F11X V1.0 which came out afterG :they were installed - but that doesn't look like a candidate). One didoF :it during the middle of the day - the other was middle of the night -> :one uses only tcpip connections - the other is mainly LAT via; :DECservers (and we do have an interim tcpip fix loaded forg* :unclosable/allocated service connections)    G   Have you set the system parameter VCC_FLAGS to 1 yet?  If not, do so.p    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 01:52:07 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)% Subject: OpenVMS FAQ due next week... * Message-ID: <ad40k7$6bt$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  F   I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS D   FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text,    Postscript, and HTML formats.   D   The downside of all this work is that the new FAQ is substantiallyF   larger than previous editions, requiring 1415 blocks versus 887 for F   one of the most recent older versions.  The format has also changed.  E   One content question: any last-minute updates for the next edition?NA   (I expect to be passing the new FAQ files along to the OpenVMS t   webmaster early next week)  D   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesE   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred oF   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here C   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or  E   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternatives 7   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:17:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...., Message-ID: <3CF599AA.BC33BB0B@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:nG >   I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS E >   FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text, ! >   Postscript, and HTML formats.s  L Can you generate Postscript that has "pdfmark" operators to build an indexed* PDF document ? (eg: bookmarks on the left)  G >   One content question: any last-minute updates for the next edition?b  0 "Is VMS going to be ported to the 8086 ?"   :-)     F >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articles) >   that it will take to post the new FAQ'  L How about posting a link to the full FAQ and then just the list of questions or topics covered in the FAQ ?  M This would still give the advantage of being searchable in deja/google, whilee+ keeping the size of the posting manageable.e   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 03:34:57 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...f, Message-ID: <ad46l101evh@enews2.newsguy.com>  C In comp.sys.dec Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote: F >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesG >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred UH >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here E >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or hG >   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternativeso9 >   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)y  H I'd been about to say that just a pointer to the new FAQ would be fine. J Then I realized that posting it to comp.os.vms is actually better, as thatK will increase the likelyhood of it being archived for historical reference.   . In any case I look forward to the new version!   			Zanee   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 11:53:25 -0800' From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya)n, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)& Message-ID: <3cf523a5$1@news.ucsc.edu>  H In article <3CF3B0A1.2090901@srv.net>, Kevin Handy  <kth@srv.net> wrote:= >One of the programs available from http://www.gnu.org is oner: >called units, which will convert from one unit of measure< >to another. It is capable of many amusing conversions, such >as 'miles/gallon' to '1/acre'.d  B Units(1) is a Unix program which goes way back.  See the man page.  H The most interesting implementation of units into a programming languageF is probably verifiable Pascal.  I wonder if Sabina ever propagated out from GRC very far....o  I >> Now I still have the punched cards somewhere, and I have a VMS Fortran'1 >> system to hand - anyone got a card reader? :^)i   Several.      VMS removed from follow up line.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:28:55 +0200t, From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins) 7 Message-ID: <20020529192855.12911ef4.steveo@eircom.net>e  " On Wed, 29 May 2002 06:52:45 -06001 "Russell P. Holsclaw" <russ@holsclaw.nyet> wrote:a  I RPH> Now, using this imaginary scale map, try convincing someone that thejO RPH> universe was created specifically for the benefit of humanity. Remember....M RPH> we're the ones crawling around on the surface of that invisible microbe.)  B 	Choosing different assumptions I can get - "Look how important weK must be that such a magnificently huge edifice is created for us alone." :)n   -- tH C:>WIN                                          |     Directable MirrorsN The computer obeys and wins.                    |A Better Way To Focus The SunL You lose and Bill collects.                     |  licenses available - see:J                                                 |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:27:12 -0500l$ From: Larry__Weiss <lfw@airmail.net>+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins) O Message-ID: <E0F6FBB0EC2FB204.5F24633063709492.6AAEA731B6FDFF8C@lp.airnews.net>s   Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:O$ > On Wed, 29 May 2002 06:52:45 -06003 > "Russell P. Holsclaw" <russ@holsclaw.nyet> wrote:a > K > RPH> Now, using this imaginary scale map, try convincing someone that theEQ > RPH> universe was created specifically for the benefit of humanity. Remember...lO > RPH> we're the ones crawling around on the surface of that invisible microbe.l > E >   Choosing different assumptions I can get - "Look how important weOM > must be that such a magnificently huge edifice is created for us alone." :)a >   D Why does "penal colony" suddenly occur to me as a possibility?   8-[   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 21:18:44 +0100; From: alan.nospam@glaramara.freeserve.co.uk (Alan J. Wylie)m+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins).= Message-ID: <wgd6veemhn.fsf@snoeze.glaramara.freeserve.co.uk>   D On Tue, 28 May 2002 19:15:10 -0400, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> said:  ; > The original units are 1/acre (i.e. acre**-1), not l/acreo > (liters/acre).  = > Acres, being a measure of area, are length**2, so 1/acre ise= > length**-2, so the conversion was dimensionally consistent.e  C Acres are a lot too large, but fuel consumption can be expressed ineD square millimetres. This can be thought of as the cross section of a, trough out of which your car scoops its fuel  C Thus 30 miles/gallon (Imperial) equates to a cross section of about  0.3 mm on a side.W  : I've missed the start of this thread, so forgive me if I'm> looping, but wasn't a VMS timeout expressed in nanofortnights?   --  J Alan J. Wylie                        http://www.glaramara.freeserve.co.uk/J "Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,4 but rather when there is nothing left to take away."   Antoine de Saint-Exupery   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:24:21 -0400e' From: Eric Sosman <Eric.Sosman@sun.com>s+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)p' Message-ID: <3CF54705.69233B05@sun.com>a   "Alan J. Wylie" wrote: >n< > I've missed the start of this thread, so forgive me if I'm@ > looping, but wasn't a VMS timeout expressed in nanofortnights?  B     No, microfortnights.  (And that was only in the documentation;; the implementation actually treated the timeout duration asl< seconds, thus committing an error of more than 20%.  I don't! know if a bug was ever filed ...)o   -- t Eric.Sosman@sun.comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:37:21 GMTp' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>s+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)e) Message-ID: <3CF55239.31DC79AE@yahoo.com>    Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:  > $ > On Wed, 29 May 2002 06:52:45 -06003 > "Russell P. Holsclaw" <russ@holsclaw.nyet> wrote:. > B > RPH> Now, using this imaginary scale map, try convincing someoneA > RPH> that the universe was created specifically for the benefitlA > RPH> of humanity. Remember... we're the ones crawling around ona- > RPH> the surface of that invisible microbe.- > @ > Choosing different assumptions I can get - "Look how important> > we must be that such a magnificently huge edifice is created > for us alone." :)D  A Since you all, and the entire universe, are purely figments of mya@ imagination, *I* have a much better sense of proportion :-)  All) my problems are really self-flagellation.g   -- r< Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.c:    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 02:12:38 GMTr' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>d+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)w) Message-ID: <3CF55CB6.13A8D19B@yahoo.com>o   Eric Sosman wrote: >  > "Alan J. Wylie" wrote: > >a> > > I've missed the start of this thread, so forgive me if I'mB > > looping, but wasn't a VMS timeout expressed in nanofortnights? > D >     No, microfortnights.  (And that was only in the documentation;= > the implementation actually treated the timeout duration as > > seconds, thus committing an error of more than 20%.  I don't# > know if a bug was ever filed ...)x  / I get about 826 microseconds per nanofortnight.-   -- -< Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.e:    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 10:13:11 +0200a* From: peter kobe <kobe@physik.uni-bonn.de> Subject: phaser740 dcpsnA Message-ID: <20020528081312.203B8280057@smail.physik.uni-bonn.de>e  <  I have not managed to correctly setup a dcps-queue for the  Tektronix Phaser740.  * Is there any hint about a working setup ?   n Thanks in advance   8 Peter  -- 7B Dr. Peter Kobe                             Tel: (49)(0)228 73 6358B Physikalisches Institut                    Fax: (49)(0)228 73 3220N Rheinische Friedrich-Wilhelms-Universitaet Web: //pi.physik.uni-bonn.de/~kobe/  
 Nussallee 12 i
 D 53115 Bonn     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 00:40:38 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationr, Message-ID: <3CF5AD45.32A09230@videotron.ca>  L for the record, I did not send the message which started this thread. Please( do not feed the troll and don't respond.   ------------------------------  , Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 06:29:25 +0200 (CEST)% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>l1 Subject: Please Read - Very Important InformationsD Message-ID: <e49244d88f7f909364111d0ac9e21ae4@remailer.segfault.net>  - MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT HOMOSEXUALS DO. 8  = The CDC reported that "We are seeing substantial increases ino sexuallyA transmitted diseases among men who have sex with men in multiple a) locations across this country." (31, 32).b  ? Homosexuals are responsible for the "first sexually transmitteda outbreak ofaC typhoid fever" in the history of the United States. This disease isi caused by ingesting human feces (32).  C More than 10% of homosexuals in major U.S. urban areas are infecteda withC HIV. To this day, they still make up more than 50% of reported AIDSj cases: in the United States (30, 31).  C Homosexuals fellate almost 100% of their sexual contacts and ingesto semen'E from about half of those. Semen contains virtually every germ carriedeA in the blood stream, so this is about equivalent to ingesting raw  human 
 blood (6).  E One study reports 70% of homosexuals admitting to having sex only onec time$ with over 50% of their partners (3).  D One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106C partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in ap
 lifetime.   E Sperm readily penetrates the anal wall (which is only one cell thick)e@ and gains direct access to the blood stream. This causes massiveB immunological damage to the body's T- and B-cell defensive systems (14).   D 50% of male syphilis is carried by homosexuals as a rectal infection and.C can enter through the urethra of another homosexual during anal sex3 (7).  B Around 67-80% of homosexuals lick and/or insert their tongues into theaA anuses of their partners (called "rimming", anilingus, fecal sex,m	 etc.) and B ingest biologically significant amounts of feces (7), which is the chiefKB cause of hepatitis and parasitic infections among homosexuals (8). ThisC practice is called the "prime taste treat in sex" in the bestselleru The Joyt of Gay Sex.2  B 33% of homosexuals admit to fisting (inserting the hand, sometimes part of - the arm, into the rectum of his partner) (7).,  B Urinating on each other ("golden showers") and torture has doubled< among homosexuals since the 1940s, and fisting has increased astronomically (7).  @ 17% of homosexuals eat and/or rub the feces of their partners on
 themselves (4).  A 12% of homosexuals give/receive enemas as part of sexual pleasuref (4).  B In one study, the average homosexual fellated somewhere between 20 and 106 C men, swallowed 50 seminal discharges, had 72 penile penetrations ofr@ the anus, and ingested feces of 23 different men EVERY YEAR (6).  C Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs,p or inn an orgy setting (7).  @ Many homosexuals don't pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles:
 "Knowledge> of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation tou sexual behavior" (16).  = Activities of homosexuals involve rimming (anilingus), goldene showers, fisting, and using "toys" (21).e  = Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental- illnesses inE the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric AssociationjD (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics andD more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). w  @ Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mentalE illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjectiveO distress") (27).  ? Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of alle syphilisB cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in thet< United States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the population.  < Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically
 accounted fora< the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel	 syndrome" A (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalot virus3 (27).0  D 73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the averageC person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness ish NOT due  to social stigmatization (13).  9 25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11).  c  C Of homosexuals questioned in one study, 43% admitted to 500 or more C partners in a lifetime, 28% admitted to 1000 or more in a lifetime,o and of= these people, 79% said that half of those partners were totalrA strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts were one night standsn (or,E as one homosexual admits in the film "The Castro," one minute stands)- (3).  E Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to "cruisya: areas" and have anonymous sex. See www.cruisingforsex.com E (NOTE: this site may contain pornographic images - please don't go to  it ifGB you are under age or don't want to see this type of material. This site isa+ referenced only for illustrative purposes.)   . 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20).   C Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal-B Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large
 cities" (10).a  > Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000D sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10).u  7 50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals (10). b  E Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist, says, "Homosexuality byrB definition is not healthy and wholesome. The homosexual person, atE best, will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the sexually normaliD person" (10). For other psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality isB wrong, please see National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.  D It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, soE thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance  rates ) have been skyrocketing for all of us(10).e  C One study reports that 90% of homosexuals have engaged in anal sex,  and 66% ! engage in anal sex regularly (6).s  E Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States,n andeE then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complainyC about it. Even today, homosexuals account for 65% of the AIDS caseshD in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that- they account for only 1-2% of the population.-  E Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases:dD 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in4 Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8).   E 10% of homosexuals admit to eating feces and/or drinking contaminated  enema#
 water (8).  ? 29% of homosexuals engage in urine sex ("golden showers") (8). 2  C 37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many:? accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teachB homosexuals>8 how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8).  E In large cities, hospitals are often called on to remove objects fromsA the rectums of homosexuals. Sometimes, the homosexuals do so muchr damageA that they have to wear colostomy bags for the rest of their lives  (8).  A 41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in publicuB restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% ? of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs (8).d  > Depending on the city, 39-59% of homosexuals are infected with
 intestinalC parasites like worms, flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthys third world countries (8).  C The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past agec 65).A This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age ofe death of% a married heterosexual man is 75 (8).y  E The median age of death of lesbian is 45 (only 24% live past age 65).uB The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8).  @ Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by anothersC homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit  suicidei (8).  A 21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide, which is at a rate of 534d times C higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who  die of these things(8).  @ 50% of the calls to a hotline to report "queer bashing" involvedB domestic violence (i.e., homosexuals beating up other homosexuals) (18).r  7 About 50% of the women on death row are lesbians (12).     Homosexuals prey on children.   C "Homosexuals in UK propose teaching about anal sex to 4-year-olds" u1 33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7). o  ? There is a notable homosexual group, consisting of thousands ofk members,C known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA).aB (Note: this web site is sometimes down). This is a child molestingB homosexual group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." ThisD group has been seen marching in most major homosexual parades across theh United States.  C Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestationse in the< United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, B means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molester, while 1 in 490' heterosexuals is a child molester (19).   C 73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of ages (9).  B Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: "The love between men and 1 boys is at the foundation of homosexuality" (22).s  = Because homosexuals can't reproduce naturally, they resort to 
 recruiting? children. Homosexuals can be heard chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOTe ENOUGH,l? RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their homosexual parades. A groupa
 called theB "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. TheyE print "WE RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other homosexuals aren'te asC overt about this, but rather try to infiltrate society and get intowE positions where they will have access to the malleable minds of youngmC children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, etc.) (8).f  A See the DC Lesbian Avengers web page. Also, see AFA Action Alert. B Kinder, gentler pedophiles? The homosexual agenda.  The homosexual agendaB includes desensitizing the public: "The first order of business is: desensitization of the American public concerning gays and; gay rights.....To desensitize the public is to help it view = homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion.  Ideally,B we would have straights register differences in sexual preferences the : way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games....At A least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and-D nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full 'appreciation'B or 'understanding' of homosexuality from the average American. You canFB forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is aA good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just ? another thing...then your battle for legal and social rights isw virtually won" (25).  B Part of the homosexual agenda is to get the public to affirm their filthyD lifestyle, as one homosexual admitted in the October 1987 homosexual rallywD on Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a right to privacy and ad> protection from wrong. We also have a right -- as heterosexualB Americans already have -- to see government and society affirm our lives" (27).  B Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity: "TheD teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds andD constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reasonB enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian religion" (1).  ? Homosexuals knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10% figuren (i.e.,E homosexuals make up 10% of the population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly, ofC the Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that figure when moste gay*A people were entirely hidden to try to create an impression of our  numerousness" (17).    The Gay Revolutionary .     The true number of homosexuals. B The Kinsey study of 1948, which homosexuals often cite to say that 10% of? the population is homosexual, actually says that only 4% of them
 populationA is EXCLUSIVELY homosexual. This study involved a disproportionate E number of people who had been in jail for sex crimes (hardly a randomME sample of the population). Kinsey also did perverse studies involving ? young boys and pedophiles. Current research shows that the truei
 percentageE of homosexuals is in the 1-2% range (15,23,26,28). Consider how small  this4 number is when compare to most of the numbers above.  E Homosexuals aren't discriminated against in employment, so why shoulde they be a protected class?m  @ The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which isD disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of theE general population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks is $12,166.00M (24).u  @ 59.6% of homosexuals are college graduates. 18.0% of the general
 population? are college graduates (24). Too bad they aren't smart enough toe listenE to good advice. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools"  (Romans 1:22).  = 49.0% of homosexuals hold professional/managerial positions. -: 15.9% of the general population hold such positions (24).    Where's the job discrimination?m   Sexual Orientation i  ; A phrase that has come up recently in this earth is "sexualcD orientation." This is a phrase made up by homosexuals to try to makeD themselves look less filthy than they really are. The purpose of theD phrase is to take the spotlight from what these perverts do, and put@ it on the notion that they are just poor, mistreated people, whoC simply are attracted to members of the same sex - as if they aren't>E engaging in activity forbidden by God Almighty. "Sexual orientation,"mD as used today, has nothing to do with sexual activity (yeah, right),C but only refers to who or what a particular person is attracted to.l IfC you think that people of other "sexual orientations" are just fine,hE let's see what other "sexual orientations" you would necessarily havesD to accept as wholesome and pure. If you're not going to discriminateE based on "sexual orientation", then you must not discriminate againsts? any of the following. If you discriminate against any of these,s you're? a hypocrite. These "sexual orientations" are generally known asMA "paraphilias", and are mental disorders - just like homosexualitys used to be (29).s  D Exhibitionism - involves people who are sexually aroused by the idea) of exposing their genitals to a stranger.m  A Fetishism - involves people who are sexually aroused by nonlivingt objects.  E Frotteurism - involves people who are sexually aroused by the idea of 4 touching and rubbing against a nonconsenting person.  : Pedophilia - involves people who are sexually attracted to4 prepubescent children (usually 13 years or younger).  D Sexual Masochism - involves people who are sexually aroused by being9 "humiliated, beaten, bound, or otherwise made to suffer."bC Sexual Sadism - involves people who are sexually aroused by causinge: the psychological or physical suffering of a victim (e.g., "restraint,r> blindfolding, paddling, spanking, whipping, pinching, beating,C burning, electrical shocks, rape, cutting, stabbing, strangulation,:" torture, mutilation, or killing").  C Transvestic Fetishism - involves people who are sexually aroused by  cross-dressing.p  @ Voyeurism - involves people who are sexually aroused by watching  unsuspecting strangers have sex.  B Telephone Scatologia - involves people who are sexually aroused by making obscene phone calls.   E Necrophilia - involves people who are sexually attracted to corpses. i  : Partialism - involves people who are sexually attracted to exclusively  one part of the body.   C Zoophilia - involves people who are sexually attracted to animals. 0  A Coprophilia - involves people who are sexually aroused by feces. R  C Klismaphilia - involves people who are sexually aroused by enemas. 0  ? Urophilia - involves people who are sexually aroused by urine. i  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 ---------- REFERENCES:-   (1) Advocate, 1985.  a  6 (2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry.    A (3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexuality: a Study of Diversityg6 Among Men and Women. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978.  C (4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random Sexuality Survey. Nebraskao$ Med. Journal, 1985, 70, pp. 292-299.  D (5) "Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of Gonorrhea." Lancet, April 25, 1987.a  C (6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A ini7 Homosexual Men." New England J. Med., 1980, pp. 435-38.y  - (7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE.     C (8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity Normal?" Marietta, GA.  0  @ (9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275.    : (10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992.(  D (11) Kus, R. "Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay America." Medical Journal& of Homosexuality, 1987, 14(2), p. 254.  " (12) Lesbian News, January 1994.    9 (13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current Thinking ontD Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11.  > (14) Manlight, G. et. al. "Chronic Immune Stimulation By SpermA Alloantigens." J. American Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438.   # (15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy a  C (16) MsKusick, L. et. al. "AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported By Gayr@ Men in San Francisco." Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96.   (17) Newsweek, February 1993.  o    (18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993.    3 (19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37.  s  B (20) Rueda, E. "The Homosexual Network." Old Greenwich, Conn., The! Devin Adair Company, 1982, p. 53.h  4 (21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We Talk."    - (22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992.  r  . (23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322.    . (24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.    E (25) "The Overhauling of Straight America." Guide Magazine. November,  1987.   ! (26) United States Census Bureau t  9 (27) United States Congressional Record, June 29, 1989.  d  3 (28) University of Chicago's Nation Research Corp.    A (29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourtht0 Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 1994.   (30) Reuters, Feb. 5, 2001 r    (31) Center for Disease Control   % (32) Associated Press, April 25, 2001e   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 13:41:31 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L3 Message-ID: <wxhjZwndkTV+@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  w In article <01KIB4FAKYJK96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:5 >> Subj:	Press Release DS20L > 1 > Somewhat off-topic here, as it doesn't run VMS.  > J > I'm not saying it should, as long as there is SOME low-end VMS offering.  B I think it is on-topic given the recent discussions.  It did _not_@ say that all other DS machines are superceded.  It did _not_ sayB that Unix is the only operating system in the world.  It _did_ say the new HP supports Alpha.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:44:35 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L, Message-ID: <3CF52FA1.29D74CB3@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote:M >       HP (NYSE:HPQ) today introduced the HP AlphaServer DS20L server and HPGI > AlphaServer SC20 supercomputer, which deliver to customers in fields astG > diverse as entertainment to defense the power of a supercomputer in ao+ > space-saving, rack-mounted configuration.e  L Isn't this the same DS20L that doesn't boot VMS because it was essentially aB custom made system designed with telecom industry specific needs ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:14:05 -0400n- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>p  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L0 Message-ID: <3CF5368D.13B6E0B0@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Phillip Helbig wrote:l1 > Somewhat off-topic here, as it doesn't run VMS.e > J > I'm not saying it should, as long as there is SOME low-end VMS offering.  P OK, I'll say it.  "It should!"   Most particularly the SC20 should run VMS.  TheP lack of VMS applications is no showstopper in this market segment, since (casualP observation not based on surveys) we use home-brew applications anyhow.  Heck, IO myself have been known to resurrect Fortran code from my PDP-10 days and run itt% at very satisfying speed on my ES40s.0  K The ease of programming/debugging on VMS is a big plus, particularly for ustP geezers who think SEARCH is more evocative than grep.  And, we don't yet have to face EOL as do users of Tru64.    - JB    ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2002 22:11:06 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L+ Message-ID: <ad3jlq05gt@enews3.newsguy.com>y  . Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote: > Phillip Helbig wrote:g2 >> Somewhat off-topic here, as it doesn't run VMS. >> iK >> I'm not saying it should, as long as there is SOME low-end VMS offering.f  R > OK, I'll say it.  "It should!"   Most particularly the SC20 should run VMS.  TheR > lack of VMS applications is no showstopper in this market segment, since (casualR > observation not based on surveys) we use home-brew applications anyhow.  Heck, IQ > myself have been known to resurrect Fortran code from my PDP-10 days and run ite' > at very satisfying speed on my ES40s.b  G I can't resist pointing out, especially in reply to this, that the SC20 F shouldn't be running VMS for the simple fact that it should be runningK TOPS-10 or TOPS-20.  Am I the only one that finds this choice of a name for1J an Alpha to be very bad?  When I think SC20, I think of a Systems Concepts$ SC-20 (hint, it was a PDP-10 clone).   			Zanep   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 02:43:07 GMTa' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>u! Subject: RE: RF74 HDA formatting.a0 Message-ID: <bq14da.c74.ln@dadsys1.fuller.local>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:t   > 2 > Y'all seem to be missing what he's trying to do. > 0 > He has 1 RF74 with good electronics, dead HDA.0 > He has 1 RZ74 with good electronics, good HDA. >   > These drives use the same HDA. > 7 > He wants to perform an HDA "transplant" from the RZ74 4 > to the RF74; retention of data on disk not needed.  = Yep, that's exactly what I understood that he's trying to do.e           Stuh   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 02 20:10:09 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?) Message-ID: <98NsJCpHOH$t@elias.decus.ch>   T In article <Kc1IOn0O$NMM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:e > In article <Ct7cz5LZMP5P@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:eW >> In article <3CEEBE80.12DF16E6@nospam.net>, Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net> writes:nR >>>> "If SHOW DEV D showed you all your disks twice would you see no reason to fix
 >>>> that? >>>>U >>> Isn't there a prefix mechanism that tells RMS that the current equivalence stringnK >>> is a device, and that no further translation is possible? IIRC it's "_"e >>> (underscore) or %d27.a >>  G >> /TRANSLATION=TERMINAL is the definitive method.  Leading underscores E >> were a temporary method introduced in VMS V2, but I can't remembereF >> the difference in meaning between a double leading underscore (gone5 >> and not lamented) and a single leading underscore.l >> sH >> Escape is used for process permanent logical names, but not in device% >> specs to the best of my knowledge.s > H > My recollection is that a single underscore in the result of a logicalC > name translation was taken as an indication that the result was a A > physical device name.  The moral equivalent of /TRANS=TERMINAL.  > ? > My recollection is that the double underscore was taken as an C > indication that the result is a physical device name but that theoH > original logical name should be retained for presentation to the user.5 > The moral equivalent of /TRANS=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL)  > F > This usage persisted until version 4.0 rolled out the modern logical > name structure.l >  > That's a long time ago now.c > D That is my recollection too. Particularly useful for sending VMSmailE to user FRED if FRED was a group or system logical pointing at FRED'ss
 SYS$LOGIN.  F A brief test showed that MAIL doesn't honour that workaround any more.  B > Single and double leading underscores are still treated as noiseC > symbols on disk device names for most (all?) purposes.  But theirm= > presence in an equivalence name no longer has the effect ofu/ > suppressing further logical name translation.. >  __
 Paul Sture Switzerlanda   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:31:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: Strange crash, Message-ID: <3CF53A87.7B39103E@videotron.ca>    Thanks to all for their answers.  A Below is the OPCOM from operator log on VELO (the surviving node)h  L Took about 20 seconds after connection was lost before VELO decided BIKE wasL dead. I like the second message ! (Is this message simply stating that OPCOM4 on VELO is no longer expecting messages from BIKE ?)  
 Note that 5 VELO: SCSSYSTEMID = 1031, VOTES = 2  (surviving node)u# BIKE: SCSSYSTEMID = 1029, VOTES = 1   F A minute after BIKE was declared dead by VELO. BIKE came back to life.  H If the problem on the ethernet was on a hub or cable, wouldn't BIKE have; remained unreacheable ? (remember I was asleep at the time)s  L I have a NAT router between the cable modem and my lan. Is it therefore safeN to assume that a storm coming from the internet would likely be stopped by theJ router ? Can a cable modem overwhelm an ethernet to such an extent and for. enough duration that SCS packets are stopped ?  K I would therefore tend to think that it was BIKE that had a problem (eithere8 driver or hardware) which was reset when BIKE rebooted.   $ DECNET counters on VELO look clean.   Y In any event, I am reassured that I need not suspect the TCP stack in terms of intrusion.o      8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:15:59.01  %%%%%%%%%%%B 07:15:58.95 Node VELO (csid 00010005) lost connection to node BIKE  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.01  %%%%%%%%%%%> OPCOM on VELO is deactivating BIKE, csid 00010003, system 1029: Node is no longer with us, placing node in DEPARTED state.  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.09  %%%%%%%%%%%L 07:16:19.46 Node VELO (csid 00010005) timed-out lost connection to node BIKE  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.28  %%%%%%%%%%%P 07:16:19.47 Node VELO (csid 00010005) proposed reconfiguration of the VAXcluster  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.33  %%%%%%%%%%%J 07:16:19.47 Node BIKE (csid 00010003) has been removed from the VAXcluster  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.44  %%%%%%%%%%%K 07:16:19.49 Node VELO (csid 00010005) completed VAXcluster state transitiono  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:17:22.61  %%%%%%%%%%%> OPCOM on VELO recognizes node BIKE, csid 00010006, system 1029G Attempting to establish communications, placing node in STARTING state.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:57:05 +1000t/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>: Subject: Re: Strange crash2 Message-ID: <iHdJ8.2211$3t6.100614@ozemail.com.au>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CF46A52.BDE7CDFB@videotron.ca...I > This morning, I woke up and my Vaxstation had done a reboot while I wasr	 sleeping.n >:K > I don't keep a dump file on it. But the ANA/ERROR revealed that there had  been
 > a bugcheck.g >s7 > First message was a "PORT HAS CLOSED VIRTUAL CIRCUIT"y >m > Next message was a# > "FATAL BUGCHECK  KA420 FW Rev #5"u1 > "CLUEXIT - Node voluntarily exiting VAXcluster"g >n > Process name : NULLa > Process ID   : 00010000) >s > The current mode was Kernel. >aE This happens when a node cannot maintain intra-cluster communicationse8 within a specified timeout period (may be QDSKINTERVAL?)1 and the quorum settings are to leave the cluster.r (by crashing with a bugcheck)s6 We have had this occur when rebooting network switches Phil   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 13:01:29 -0700 From: aharris@mmm.com (ann h)  Subject: TAPESYS= Message-ID: <f41c3e24.0205291201.2b125f20@posting.google.com>p   OVMS 6.2, TAPESYS 5.2.7 E i inherited a normally excelent running system, HOWEVER ... yesterdaydF the CLEANUP job hosed and i had to delete the entry. Now, I can't findF the proper code to get the job restarted correctly. It did not restart last night..   Here is what i found ...A   tapmgrrq.exe spawns tapemgrutxeq calls tapemgrut_midnit submits  cleanup submits eject_tapesi  ? How do I make sure that the tapmgrrq spawns and things continuev	 normally?y0 I *think* that tapmgrutxeq runs around midnight.   thanks. annb   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 22:18:28 -0700( From: charithdesilva@yahoo.com (Charith)* Subject: Urgent!!!!!!!!-Process Management= Message-ID: <17ce5e0c.0205292118.4616d51e@posting.google.com>n   Hi,o  A Could some one plese let me now how process management is done ino openVMS operating system.h   Charith    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:41:13 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e. Subject: Re: Urgent!!!!!!!!-Process Management, Message-ID: <3CF5BB75.69E01302@videotron.ca>   Charith wrote: >  > Hi,  > C > Could some one plese let me now how process management is done inh > openVMS operating system.o   This is a very vague question.   You may want to look at  HELP SET PROCESS
 HELP SPAWN HELP RUN PROCESS   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:49:29 -0700j# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>p# Subject: RE: VAX emulators  & FX!32m9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFKFBAA.tom@kednos.com>b  ? One of the freebies that Compaq provide for NT running on alphat@ was FX!32, which was both an X86 image translator and optimizer.? The translator part was provide to the Linux Alpha community atpA no charge and made possible the running of Windows images in thatt> environment.  Now the interesting part was the optimizer whichB synthesized a flow graph and performed optimizations on this tree.  @ It would be interesting to do the same for a VAX emulator, which@ will otherwise never be particularly fast.  Does anyone know who< owns FX!32?  I believe it may have been developed by digital semiconductor, but not sure.   >-----Original Message-----k. >From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]' >Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:58 PMa >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com) >Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)h >  >n >Oh, another note. >e8 >I think one of the 3-part disk defraggers had something5 >called PERFORMANCE_METER.COM or something like that. ( >No, it was CALCULATE_VUPS.COM, I think. >p7 >Anyway, a command file that gave a rather accurate VUPt >value of your system. >i >Anyone remember that ?r >u> >It would be nice to test that with the emulators on different >host systems. >m >Jan-Erik Sderholm. >r >Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: >> >> Kevin Handy wrote:p >> > >> >B >> > Don't expect to get Alpha speed out of the emulator, but on aD >> > 1Ghz intel machine you will see somewhere around the speed of a >> > microVAX 3100.  >> > >> >> 3100/20 or 3100/98 ?s >>< >> There is a huge difference (1 to 20+) in perf between the >> different models. >>) >> It's like saying "the speed of an PC".l >> >> Jan-Erik Sderholm. >p >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.y; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eA >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002i >o ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:54:47 +0200a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)' Message-ID: <3CF53207.F238201B@aaa.com>u   Kevin Handy wrote: >  > ? > Don't expect to get Alpha speed out of the emulator, but on a-A > 1Ghz intel machine you will see somewhere around the speed of a- > microVAX 3100. >    3100/20 or 3100/98 ?  : There is a huge difference (1 to 20+) in perf between the  different models.i  & It's like saying "the speed of an PC".   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:53:11 -0600a From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> ( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)& Message-ID: <3CF531A7.1080105@srv.net>   Baby Peanut wrote:H > A few things to add.  SIMH VAX is very new.  The first offical releaseE > was done about a month ago.  The development is done in the open so3@ > the pre-releases were visble for some time.  It is still beingH > developed.  Currently it emulates only a MicroVAX III, I believe.  TheF > CPU type says MicroVAX 3800/3900.  Hopefully DELQA emulation will be? > added.  The source code to SIMH is under a BSD-style ("mostlyDE > unresticted") license and is portable to Windows, various UNIX-likeMA > platforms including Linux and to VMS which means you can have aiF > VMS/VAX virtual machine on a Alpha or VAX running VMS.  SIMH is slowH > and there are bugs which keep you from using GCC optimization options.  8 Actually, if you have a moderately recent release of GCC7 (RedHat 7.1 seems to work correctly, for example), simh1@ seems to compile/run OK with optimizations turned on (-O2).  The> bugs with the optimizations was always in setjmp/longjmp code,8 which has apparently been rewritten to be easier on gcc.? The -O2 (or -O3 if you feel adventurous) does improve the speedw  a bit, but it doesn't double it.  = Don't expect to get Alpha speed out of the emulator, but on ah? 1Ghz intel machine you will see somewhere around the speed of ap microVAX 3100.  C > I don't have VMS for it yet, but maybe in a month or two I will. FG > Here's SIMH booting NetBSD/vax on an IA32 platform.  The device names9 > should be familiar.a >   ? VMS seems to run on both simh and ts10 quite well in the latesti9 versions. Have installed/used C, BASIC, and PASCAL in thei> latest versions of both simh and ts10.  NetBSD was much easier< to get booting to a user prompt than VMS, by several months.   > freebsd$ ./vax nbsd.ini  >  > VAX simulator V2.9-9 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:58:24 +0200.9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)' Message-ID: <3CF532E0.5CDC7F00@aaa.com>-   Oh, another note.   7 I think one of the 3-part disk defraggers had somethingn4 called PERFORMANCE_METER.COM or something like that.' No, it was CALCULATE_VUPS.COM, I think.n  6 Anyway, a command file that gave a rather accurate VUP value of your system.@   Anyone remember that ?  = It would be nice to test that with the emulators on differentc
 host systems.e   Jan-Erik Sderholm.'   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:n >  > Kevin Handy wrote: > >o > >nA > > Don't expect to get Alpha speed out of the emulator, but on a_C > > 1Ghz intel machine you will see somewhere around the speed of ay > > microVAX 3100. > >p >  > 3100/20 or 3100/98 ? > ; > There is a huge difference (1 to 20+) in perf between the- > different models.e > ( > It's like saying "the speed of an PC". >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm..   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:58:26 +0200o- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>Y( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)' Message-ID: <3CF540F2.E3F01572@Free.fr>0   Alan Greig wrote:  >  ../..c > Jay Nichols3 > Computer Special Systems, Manager of Engineering"e   Jay Nichols?  P I know him very well. Maybe because he speaks perfect French. I went to his home5 once, around 1984 or 85. What is he doing these days?u   D. -- y2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htmh2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:14:52 +0200.- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>u Subject: VAX to ia64 migration?l' Message-ID: <3CF544CB.83E7E93F@Free.fr>   M I went to see one of the most important French DEC Customers today. They haveaA about a thousand of VAX (I say VAX, not VAX and Alpha) worldwide.   P When I asked my correspondent about migration, he said: "migration? Where to? WeP are perfectly happy with our VAX and where would you migrate us to? Only our VAX@ and our home made software can do what we need to do with them".  P I said: "And if you need more spare parts or another system for whatever reason?> The VAX product line is dead". He said: "we buy from brokers".  M I said "What about the Itanium in a couple of years? It will run VMS too." HenG said: "we'll see in a few years, when HP has released migration tools".h    O We know that CPQ has ordered a "DECmigrate from Alpha to Itanium" version (see mO http://www.softresint.com/news/Bin_Trans.htm). Is it time for HP to "order" too'# a "DECmigrate from VAX to Itanium"?c   D. -- S2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:37:45 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> # Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?1' Message-ID: <3CF585E6.406482E7@fsi.net>d   Didier Morandi wrote:o > O > I went to see one of the most important French DEC Customers today. They have C > about a thousand of VAX (I say VAX, not VAX and Alpha) worldwide.- > R > When I asked my correspondent about migration, he said: "migration? Where to? WeR > are perfectly happy with our VAX and where would you migrate us to? Only our VAXB > and our home made software can do what we need to do with them". > R > I said: "And if you need more spare parts or another system for whatever reason?@ > The VAX product line is dead". He said: "we buy from brokers". > O > I said "What about the Itanium in a couple of years? It will run VMS too." HetI > said: "we'll see in a few years, when HP has released migration tools".  > P > We know that CPQ has ordered a "DECmigrate from Alpha to Itanium" version (seeQ > http://www.softresint.com/news/Bin_Trans.htm). Is it time for HP to "order" tooO% > a "DECmigrate from VAX to Itanium"?$  @ Sounds like it's time for a high-level face-to-face between your6 customer and Mark Gorham not to mention Rich Marcello.   -- P David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:44:27 GMTk1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> # Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?i8 Message-ID: <%tfJ8.2342$fT5.692712@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CF585E6.406482E7@fsi.net...7 > Didier Morandi wrote:= > >NL > > I went to see one of the most important French DEC Customers today. They haveE > > about a thousand of VAX (I say VAX, not VAX and Alpha) worldwide.t > >aG > > When I asked my correspondent about migration, he said: "migration?n Where to? WeL > > are perfectly happy with our VAX and where would you migrate us to? Only our VAXeD > > and our home made software can do what we need to do with them". > >dL > > I said: "And if you need more spare parts or another system for whatever reason?tB > > The VAX product line is dead". He said: "we buy from brokers". > >=H > > I said "What about the Itanium in a couple of years? It will run VMS too." HeK > > said: "we'll see in a few years, when HP has released migration tools".l > >cE > > We know that CPQ has ordered a "DECmigrate from Alpha to Itanium"q version (seeG > > http://www.softresint.com/news/Bin_Trans.htm). Is it time for HP tor "order" too ' > > a "DECmigrate from VAX to Itanium"?  >tB > Sounds like it's time for a high-level face-to-face between your8 > customer and Mark Gorham not to mention Rich Marcello. >o  E And it might be worth asking the SRI (Charon) folks if such a tool iseK feasible. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If it is, IMHO the investment in theeI tool might be modest indeed when compared to the revenue HPQ will lose assH VAX users continue to migrate to AIX and Solaris. Or the evil Windoze...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:09:28 -0700n# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?a9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFNFBAA.tom@kednos.com>e   >-----Original Message-----c7 >From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@attbi.com]o& >Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:44 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ >Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration? >o >h > = >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messagei" >news:3CF585E6.406482E7@fsi.net... >> Didier Morandi wrote: >> >A >> > I went to see one of the most important French DEC Customersm >today. They >have F >> > about a thousand of VAX (I say VAX, not VAX and Alpha) worldwide. >> >H >> > When I asked my correspondent about migration, he said: "migration?
 >Where to? We.A >> > are perfectly happy with our VAX and where would you migrateB >us to? Only >our VAXE >> > and our home made software can do what we need to do with them".e >> >@ >> > I said: "And if you need more spare parts or another system
 >for whateverr >reason?C >> > The VAX product line is dead". He said: "we buy from brokers".w >> >I >> > I said "What about the Itanium in a couple of years? It will run VMSs	 >too." He L >> > said: "we'll see in a few years, when HP has released migration tools". >> >F >> > We know that CPQ has ordered a "DECmigrate from Alpha to Itanium"
 >version (seenH >> > http://www.softresint.com/news/Bin_Trans.htm). Is it time for HP to >"order" too( >> > a "DECmigrate from VAX to Itanium"? >>C >> Sounds like it's time for a high-level face-to-face between yourt9 >> customer and Mark Gorham not to mention Rich Marcello.  >> >1F >And it might be worth asking the SRI (Charon) folks if such a tool isL >feasible. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If it is, IMHO the investment in theJ >tool might be modest indeed when compared to the revenue HPQ will lose asI >VAX users continue to migrate to AIX and Solaris. Or the evil Windoze...   H I'm not sure that it concerns them as much as you and I would think.  ItL appears to me that they have a vision, a strategy of what they want to be asC a company in the future, and abandoning what they regard as "older"e technolgiesoJ seems to be part of the picture.  We are in somewhat the same predicament, weK have some rather large customers, including some inside the government that I we don't talk about, some of whom have never ported to Alpha for the sameoJ reasons that Didier cited.  Now PL/I which we supply on Alpha uses the GEMJ back end, but we can't get a commitment out of HP to use it in the future,L in fact, it appears that HP doesn't care whether they retain these customersG or not, telling some of them to recode their applications in some other0	 language.lG I mean how stupid can you get.  Why not just give these customers IBM'se phone6L number.  So, we have previously gone on record as saying that we will have aL PL/I compiler available mid 2004, which we can accomplish even if we use ourK own backend, but that probably rules out a common debugger, so now we would H also have to port our Tru64 debugger.  Of course, this has nothing to do withA HP, or Compaq for that matter, the dismantling of the developmentt environmentrL that evolved during the late seventies and early eighties, which was amongstJ the best in the industry was started while the name was still Digital.  OfI course we could all get lucky, and the Itanium could be a real flop.  Our 6 customers semingly could care less if it comes or not.   >i >w >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >j ---T& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 02:22:40 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?g* Message-ID: <ad42dg$8fe$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  l In article <%tfJ8.2342$fT5.692712@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: :h= :"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messageh" :news:3CF585E6.406482E7@fsi.net... :> Didier Morandi wrote: :> > [--much snippage--]F :And it might be worth asking the SRI (Charon) folks if such a tool is) :feasible. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't...e  F   An enhancement to DECmigrate to permit VAX code to operate on IA-64 E   is under serious discussions, as is an emulator -- with the currentoF   VAX emulator (update) work targeting Alpha, with support for moving D   Alpha code to IA-64, with (of course) simply getting OpenVMS over @   onto IA-64, and with the other usual projects, any version of E   DECmigrate to permit VAX code to run on IA-64 simply falls further  C   out on the timescale.  (Why is an IA-64 version of DECmigrate fortC   VAX code further out? Well, we have to get IA-64 running OpenVMS eC   before DECmigrate makes any sense, and the early adopters are allP.   expected to be moving source code across...)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:25:29 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t# Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?a, Message-ID: <3CF59BA6.9314EDE8@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:tG >   An enhancement to DECmigrate to permit VAX code to operate on IA-64V4 >   is under serious discussions, as is an emulator   L In my not-so-valued opinion, what would really be needed is a way to run theF Digital layered and middleware that were not ported from Vax to Alpha.  H For instance, a customer may have the source code to his own gateways toN Message Router, but he can't move to Alpha because Message Router won't run onL Alpha. So if the emulator/translator is good enough to run Message Router onF IA64, then the customer could recompile his gateways and move to IA64.) Otherwise, he will still be stuck on VAX.n  K This would probably involve some tough political/management decisions at HPrL since the ability for a customer to run retired VAX Digital layered productsL on IA64 might imply some sort of legal obligation by HP to support them. ButF Shirley there would be some way around this that would still allow the= customer to run the software (and move/convert the licenses).>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 06:52:04 +0200c- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>s# Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?1' Message-ID: <3CF5AFF3.43758D0E@Free.fr>t   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:y > G > And it might be worth asking the SRI (Charon) folks if such a tool isaM > feasible. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If it is, IMHO the investment in thesK > tool might be modest indeed when compared to the revenue HPQ will lose asiJ > VAX users continue to migrate to AIX and Solaris. Or the evil Windoze...  O You all will be interested to learn that, among all (still) users of VMS that IeP talked to, who do not intend to migrate to anything for the previously mentionedG reasons, nearly all of them are VAX users. Is it because they are doinguN intensive real time processing and, for this reason, did not see any advantage to move to Alpha? Probably.   N So, I would be very interested to know, among these famous 470 000 DEC systems@ still alive worldwide, the % of VAX/VMS, Alpha/VMS and others...   Any way to get these numbers?    D. -- a2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:43:56 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e# Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?i, Message-ID: <3CF5BC18.CDADF9B5@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:IP > So, I would be very interested to know, among these famous 470 000 DEC systemsB > still alive worldwide, the % of VAX/VMS, Alpha/VMS and others...     Wasn't it 410000 systems ?  J For one thing, that number is not qualified. It doesn't say that those areG still active licenses, or whether it is just all licences ever sold. It J doesn't state that there are oevr 410,000 systems still under maintenance.  H Nevertheless, it is good that VMS management produced that (meaningless)K number becaise it makes it harder for HP to kill VMS. (unless HP knows whate* the real number of active VMS clients is).  M As far as the percentage of VAX/ALPHA, ask yourself how many Alphas were soldO? since 1992, and perhaps put 40% of those on VMS (is that a fairp approximation).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 02:01:23 +0100 ( From: Mr Beermat <beermat.geo@yahoo.com> Subject: VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2 8 Message-ID: <1fuafukjnrh03a7ghnd45d1gf5ri8c0mdq@4ax.com>  D Came to run the multiuser game Tank on my hobbyist OpenVMS7.2 systemF (on a uVAX3100/m10e) ; it failed giving the error messgae "invalid I/O? channel". The same executable works fine running under VMS 5.2.o  D Suggestions please on how to get this game and QIX (which fails in a  similar fashion) working on 7.2?   ta greg   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 15:02:14 -0700( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)' Subject: Re: Which Unix for VMS users ?o< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0205291402.72a01ccb@posting.google.com>  h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<lSqYOfGKzEDi@eisner.encompasserve.org>...z > In article <HjJ5U5cimTON@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:g > > In article <tH7ErfkdoAB$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:a} > >> In article <VYHx8mJO$QZo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:e > >>> N > >>> Given Nic's information below, and Bob's above, it looks the choices forK > >>> people wishing to go from VMS to a Unix variant have a choice betweenkN > >>> Linux or Solaris. What problems (from a VMS viewpoint) does Solaris have > >>> that Linux does not ?h > >>  H > >>    Fewer choices of platform and less reliability in my experience.> > >>    On the other hand I think Sun has a better C compiler. > > L > > Now _that's_ an interesting comment about reliability. I've just startedK > > building up a Solaris system on a spare x86 system in order to get some-F > > exposure to it, and although it has things that VMS users would beO > > interested in (like printer forms management [*]) that Linux does not have,:M > > I haven't been running it long enough to get a feeling about reliability.G > > K > > What kinds of reliability issues does Solaris have that Linux doesn't ?g > >  > I >    I can't give anything but anecdotal evidence, but our Sun disks die,rH >    and the OS crashes on silly things like a full user partition or anJ >    NTP hichough (most Solaris folks will tell you this really shouldn't ' >    happen, but it's repeatable here).e  8 Sun just remarkets other vendor's disk drives as theirs.  E Was the full partion /tmp by any chance?  I do not like the fact thatSE /tmp gets storage from virtual memory and has no limits imposed on it.> by default.  You can hose a Solaris box by filling up /tmp andB exausting swap that way.  The solution is to limit /tmp by puttingA options in the /etc/vfstab.  Choose a size that leaves you with aa decent amount of swap.   bad:  1 swap    -       /tmp    tmpfs   -       yes     -m   good:t  9 swap    -       /tmp    tmpfs   -       yes     size=900mo    # You can fetch a shiney new ntp fromd http://sunfreeware.secsup.org/  G >    I have had very little problems with Linux, from 0.99 running on aa3 >    386 through my kid's fairly current Linux PPC.n   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2002 12:58:05 -0700& From: chessmaster1010@hotmail.com (JG): Subject: Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash)= Message-ID: <dd3f0cb7.0205291158.79134136@posting.google.com>d  j "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message news:<ad2qgt$tgep4$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>...L > That reminds me of a question that I need to answer soon. When the clusterN > looses communication, how do the nodes decide which one will do the CLUEXIT?N > i.e. if I have a SCSI cluster and the nodes communicate through Ethernet and > the Ethernet gets cut.  D When one or more nodes lose connection to other nodes in the clusterD the quorum scheme goes into effect.  Since quorum is always one moreA than half the expected votes only one (if any) group of nodes canP- retain quorum.  All other nodes will CLUEXIT.-  F In the simple case of two one vote nodes without a quorum disk if they5 lose connection to each other they will both CLUEXIT.d   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.297 ************************