1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 30 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 298       Contents: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... ; Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... . Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) Caculator within DCL Re: Caculator within DCL, Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?0 Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ? Re: Challenge: Find The Fault  Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64* Re: Comments on HP rebuttal of Gartner/IBM( Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Date+ Re: CONTROL T not working on Alpha (fixed!)  Curious error message  Re: Curious error message & IDE controller in Alphaserver 4100???? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?D Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?D Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?D Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?D Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?? Re: Lots of hobbyist VAXen for sale (Amsterdam/the Netherlands) " Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in ReadingE Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work... E Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...  Re: No new ALL-IN-1  Re: No new Alpha sales Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...# Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) # Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins) " Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins) Re: phaser740 dcps, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information Re: Press Release DS20L  RE: RF74 HDA formatting.P Sequent dead - is the same in store for VMS because HP refuses to market it prop Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?  Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?  Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug? . Socket connected but could not recieve packet. Re: TAPESYS  Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2% Re: Urgent!!!!!!!!-Process Management  Re: VAX emulators  & FX!32 Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2 Re: VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2& VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))* Re: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))# Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:00:42 GMT ' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> # Subject: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 ) Message-ID: <3CF6308A.F217BB55@uiowa.edu>   K I have not had much luck finding any specific instructions on adding drives I to empty slots on the shelves of my EMA12000 SANs with HSG80 controllers. M Everything is dual-redundant and I want to add a dozen new drives to the pair L of SANs.  The current system is live in a production envirnoment and I would> really prefer to not have to schedule a downtime, if possible.  P Are these simple 'plug-n-play'?  Just shove in the drive and either fire-up SWCCJ or use the CLI to give them names/IDs etc so the VMS servers can find them later?  M If I need to dismount the SAN before the hardware work, I can break apart the J shadowset members that are across the two SANs and keep from shutting downP production.  I will be running on only one shadowset, but can probably live with that for an afternoon.  C My hope is that I can simply insert the drives and be done with it!    Thanks!  Rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:05:38 -0400 $ From: David Shull <dshull7@home.com>' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 8 Message-ID: <m6jcfugn4emecno6kt7ftjdvp4kknh3db6@4ax.com>  B You should be able to add new drives and, if you have the originalE documentation that came with the configuration, there is a documented C procedure for adding new drives and creating a new storageset.  All F can be done without having to reboot the controllers or rebooting VMS.< If you have a SAN configuration where you are using SSP (forF selectively serving storage to specific hosts - in a heterogenous SAN)? then when you add the units you will want to make sure you do a F disable_access=all (default is enable_access=all).  If you have on theB VMS hosts on this SAN, and they all have access to the new storage9 unit, then you won't need to worry about defining access.   D When you get the storage configured and a unit created then you willC need to go into SYSMAN (assuming these are Alphaservers) on the VMS ? systems and do an "IO AUTO" to have VMS go out and find the new  device.   E All of this should be in the document (either hardcopy or on the CD).     C On Thu, 30 May 2002 14:00:42 GMT, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>  wrote:  L >I have not had much luck finding any specific instructions on adding drivesJ >to empty slots on the shelves of my EMA12000 SANs with HSG80 controllers.N >Everything is dual-redundant and I want to add a dozen new drives to the pairM >of SANs.  The current system is live in a production envirnoment and I would ? >really prefer to not have to schedule a downtime, if possible.  > Q >Are these simple 'plug-n-play'?  Just shove in the drive and either fire-up SWCC K >or use the CLI to give them names/IDs etc so the VMS servers can find them  >later?  > N >If I need to dismount the SAN before the hardware work, I can break apart theK >shadowset members that are across the two SANs and keep from shutting down Q >production.  I will be running on only one shadowset, but can probably live with  >that for an afternoon.  > D >My hope is that I can simply insert the drives and be done with it! >  >Thanks! >Rick    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:34:14 GMT ' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> ' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 ) Message-ID: <3CF66296.AC55987C@uiowa.edu>   
 Thanks David,   ; 	I do have HGS80 ACS v8.6 docs in hard copy and I have been ? searching through them for the procedure to use when adding new C drives that will be used as simple JBOD, etc.  Not replacing failed  storagesets, etc.   < 	My main concern is whether I have to "quiet" the bus beforeF adding the drives to empty slots?  If I do, what impact will this haveC on the other drives that are part of shadow sets mounted and active  on my production VMS box?    Rick   David Shull wrote: > D > You should be able to add new drives and, if you have the originalG > documentation that came with the configuration, there is a documented E > procedure for adding new drives and creating a new storageset.  All H > can be done without having to reboot the controllers or rebooting VMS.> > If you have a SAN configuration where you are using SSP (forH > selectively serving storage to specific hosts - in a heterogenous SAN)A > then when you add the units you will want to make sure you do a H > disable_access=all (default is enable_access=all).  If you have on theD > VMS hosts on this SAN, and they all have access to the new storage; > unit, then you won't need to worry about defining access.  > F > When you get the storage configured and a unit created then you willE > need to go into SYSMAN (assuming these are Alphaservers) on the VMS A > systems and do an "IO AUTO" to have VMS go out and find the new 	 > device.  > G > All of this should be in the document (either hardcopy or on the CD).  > E > On Thu, 30 May 2002 14:00:42 GMT, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>  > wrote: > N > >I have not had much luck finding any specific instructions on adding drivesL > >to empty slots on the shelves of my EMA12000 SANs with HSG80 controllers.P > >Everything is dual-redundant and I want to add a dozen new drives to the pairO > >of SANs.  The current system is live in a production envirnoment and I would A > >really prefer to not have to schedule a downtime, if possible.  > > S > >Are these simple 'plug-n-play'?  Just shove in the drive and either fire-up SWCC M > >or use the CLI to give them names/IDs etc so the VMS servers can find them 	 > >later?  > > P > >If I need to dismount the SAN before the hardware work, I can break apart theM > >shadowset members that are across the two SANs and keep from shutting down S > >production.  I will be running on only one shadowset, but can probably live with  > >that for an afternoon.  > > F > >My hope is that I can simply insert the drives and be done with it! > > 
 > >Thanks! > >Rick    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:55:51 +0100 * From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com>D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...% Message-ID: <3cf5e3ff$1@194.70.94.92>   J I lived in 'that place in Tyne and Wear' for the first twenty six years of2 my life - why would you want to burn it down ? :-)% (Wasn't it the original Washington ?) ' http://www.washington.co.uk/history.htm    Craig Cooke     6 "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message  news:3CF4EEE8.4030701@iee.org... > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > H > > We doubly used the name as retribution for you burning the first one > > during the war of 1812 :-) >  > . > Didn't we burn it in the first place because7 > we thought it was that place in Tyne and Wear :-) :-)  > 	 > Antonio  >  >  > -- >  > --------------- / > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org  >    ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 02 19:55:33 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) D Subject: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...) Message-ID: <I0dlbVHDcw$5@elias.decus.ch>   R In article <3cf5e3ff$1@194.70.94.92>, "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> writes:L > I lived in 'that place in Tyne and Wear' for the first twenty six years of4 > my life - why would you want to burn it down ? :-)' > (Wasn't it the original Washington ?) ) > http://www.washington.co.uk/history.htm  >   E Dunno about burning Washington, but when I was there they specialised A in stealing any car which looked fast, and wrecking any car which  looked abandoned.    >  > 8 > "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message" > news:3CF4EEE8.4030701@iee.org... >> Larry Kilgallen wrote:  >>I >> > We doubly used the name as retribution for you burning the first one  >> > during the war of 1812 :-)  >> >>/ >> Didn't we burn it in the first place because 8 >> we thought it was that place in Tyne and Wear :-) :-) >>
 >> Antonio >> >> >> --  >> >> ---------------0 >> Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org >> >  >  --   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:46:32 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 7 Subject: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGPFBAA.tom@kednos.com>   F Not sure, but it looks to me as if segfault.net may be running an open relay.8 Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages?  * Return-Path: Info-VAX-Request@mvb.saic.com, Received: from mvb.saic.com (198.151.12.104)5 	 by freja.kednos.com (V5.1-15H, OpenVMS V7.3 Alpha); & 	Thu, 30 May 2002 09:40:26 -0700 (PDT)< Sender: Anonymous Coredump <mixmaster@remailer.segfault.net>G Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. @ 	It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.3 	Please report problems or inappropriate use to the 1 	remailer administrator at <jochen@segfault.net>. ( 	http://remailer.segfault.net/mixmaster/L X-Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,comp.os.vms,sci.space.station,sci.space.shuttle$ Subject: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> D Message-ID: <3dde6f82087b6b318b7f82347095f842@remailer.segfault.net>, Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:39:57 +0200 (CEST). Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net% Organization: mail2news@nym.alias.net  Lines: 6) Reply-to: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>  X-Gateway-From: mvb.saic.com To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENET    And doing a whois  gives:  FREJA> whois segfault.net D Using WHOIS server whois.internic.net, port 43, to find segfault.net     Whois Server Version 1.3  F Domain names in the .com, .net, and .org domains can now be registeredG with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net  for detailed information.       Domain Name: SEGFAULT.NET    Registrar: TUCOWS, INC."    Whois Server: whois.opensrs.net'    Referral URL: http://www.opensrs.org      Name Server: NS1.SEGFAULT.NET     Name Server: NS2.SEGFAULT.NET    Name Server: NS1.7350.ORG    Name Server: NS3.PHRACK.ORG    Updated Date: 11-dec-2001    D >>> Last update of whois database: Thu, 30 May 2002 04:53:57 EDT <<<  F The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .ORG, .EDU domains and Registrars.     C Using WHOIS server whois.opensrs.net, port 43, to find segfault.net    Registrant:   ITCSecurity
  JumanaStreet   onehundreteightyxtree  Rio de janeiro, RJ 03122-010   BR     Domain Name: SEGFAULT.NET    Administrative Contact:      Mendez, Matd  itcsec@gmx.net     JumanaStreet     onehundreteightyxtree !     Rio de janeiro, RJ, 03122-010      BR
     112744613     Technical Contact: *     DNS, Administrator  dns@nameengine.com     20140 Scholar Drive Ste 210      Hagerstown, MD, 21742      US     1-301-766-0277    Billing Contact:       Mendez, Matd  itcsec@gmx.net     JumanaStreet     onehundreteightyxtree !     Rio de janeiro, RJ, 03122-010      BR
     112744613       Registration Service Provider: 1     SpyProductions, hostmaster@spyproductions.com      +1.3023693060 "     http://www.spyproductions.com/    "  Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.$  Record last updated on 18-Mar-2002.  Record expires on 24-Mar-2006.   Record Created on 24-Mar-2000.      Domain servers in listed order:%     NS1.SEGFAULT.NET   194.152.34.131 %     NS2.SEGFAULT.NET   194.152.34.132 !     NS3.PHRACK.ORG   129.16.95.51 !     NS1.7350.ORG   212.84.215.139        >-----Original Message----- D >From: Anonymous Coredump [mailto:mixmaster@remailer.segfault.net]On >Behalf Of JF Mezei % >Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 9:40 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >Subject: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  >  > ? >This morning during my first masturbation session of the day I E >discovered my penis is covered with painful sores full of pus.  What ? >could this be?  Also my ass hurts really bad and my asshole is  >bleeding.  Please help me!  >  >Jean-Francois Mezei >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 17:28:36 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) 6 Message-ID: <20020530172836.28939.qmail@gacracker.org>  9 On Thu, 30 May 2002, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:CG >Not sure, but it looks to me as if segfault.net may be running an open  >relay.i9 >Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages?o   Segfault is a remailer.t  I I really hate when these stupid a**holes decide to use remailers for this " sort of ignorant abusive stuff. :(     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neti   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 17:44:51 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)r, Message-ID: <ad5oej$228n$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  9 In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGPFBAA.tom@kednos.com>, &  "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:I |> Not sure, but it looks to me as if segfault.net may be running an openn	 |> relay.   @ Of course it's na open relay.  It's a public anonymous remailer. That's what they do.  ; |> Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages?m   I certainly hope so.   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   k   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 10:01:47 -0700. From: Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org (Jack Trachtman) Subject: Caculator within DCLs= Message-ID: <69d784c4.0205300901.14fda67c@posting.google.com>d  C One utility I've always wanted to see in DCL is a simple 4-functionnA floating point calculator (and now that file sizes are getting so D large, I'd also like to see an integer calculator that's not limited to the Alpha word size.)  F Though this is not a hard programming project in any non-DCL language,A I was wondering if anyone knows of something that already exists.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:14:02 GMT.4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>! Subject: Re: Caculator within DCL 0 Message-ID: <3CF65BFE.293421F3@blueyonder.co.uk>   Jack Trachtman wrote:f > E > One utility I've always wanted to see in DCL is a simple 4-functionfC > floating point calculator (and now that file sizes are getting sosF > large, I'd also like to see an integer calculator that's not limited > to the Alpha word size.) > H > Though this is not a hard programming project in any non-DCL language,C > I was wondering if anyone knows of something that already exists.e  C We used to have something called CALC on the Uni of Bristol PhysicsfB cluster, I think it was from then DECUS archives, not sure though.  F You must be lucky not having a Windows box on your desk, as if you did! you would be using that, I guess.w   regards,   -- e tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk d  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 03:30:45 -07006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft)5 Subject: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?!= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0205300230.4ab6fe24@posting.google.com>t   Hi,s  E I have 2 separate ethernet networks connected via and OpenVMS system.VE The networks run DECnet Phase IV. The neworks are currently connected F via a VAX acting as a router. I want to be able to control which nodesD on network A can see, and communicate with which nodes on network B. Is there a way to do this ?    Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 06:28:53 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n9 Subject: Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?-3 Message-ID: <5T9qvr8wEo8w@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  v In article <58ba0101.0205300230.4ab6fe24@posting.google.com>, andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft) writes: > Hi,  > G > I have 2 separate ethernet networks connected via and OpenVMS system. G > The networks run DECnet Phase IV. The neworks are currently connected H > via a VAX acting as a router. I want to be able to control which nodesF > on network A can see, and communicate with which nodes on network B. > Is there a way to do this ?n  ; There are DECnet Phase IV controls on each node to do that,e7 or are you saying you don't trust the system managers ?u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:51:19 -0500n1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>o& Subject: Re: Challenge: Find The Fault1 Message-ID: <ad5arb$ifa$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>s  ? I found no faults, as you described, in any of the 3 scenerios.y   -- Dave...   > An honest man in politics shines more than he would elsewhere. -----Mark Twaini  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CF58DB1.8C3BB67B@fsi.net... - > Ok, newsgroup naysayers! I set thee a task:h > J > Explain, in as few words as possible, how any of the following fictionalJ > statements in any way compromises company identities or confidence or inB > any way threatens or compromises corporate or national security: >c > Number 1: J > Computing industry insiders today announced that a major U.S. publishingG > concern has purchased over $200 million (dollars U.S.) worth of Alpha F > computers and licenses for OpenVMS and layered products. An InfoWildD > spokesman called it a major boost for HP and its recently acquiredA > OpenVMS operating system, long thought to be dead. In a privatedI > interview, he said that this proves OpenVMS is not dead, but is in facte > alive and well.  >, > Number 2: J > A major midwest computer distributor announced this week that during itsH > most recent fiscal quarter its sales were shored up by a large sale ofJ > Alpha computers to a Fortune 100 customer. It said that additional salesF > dollars were received from the purchases of licenses for OpenVMS andJ > related database server software from a major vendor that it declined to > identify.  >T > Number 3:0F > HP's recent acquisition of Compaq Computer Corporation may have beenH > justified by HP's announcement this week of a large uptick in sales ofH > its enterprise server operating system known as OpenVMS. While largelyA > considered dead and on the decline in the industry at large, HPhB > announced sales of OpenVMS licenses during the past three fiscalJ > quarters that all but erase alleged recent attrition in OpenVMS's marketI > share. At the close of trading today, the price of HP's stock reflected E > the market's knowledge of OpenVMS's generous profit margins as HP's I > stock price increased by ... in spite of market uncertainties about thefH > future of the Alpha in light of Compaq's commitments to Intel's Itanic$ > processor prior to the merger. ... >g > - * -p >uF > There you have it - show me *ANY*thing in the above that identifies,J > beyond the shadow of any possible doubt, any individual OpenVMS customerI > company or in anyway compromises their confidence or security or in any-$ > way compromises national security. >1$ > I dare you - go ahead! I dare you! >a > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >8* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:36:47 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>p! Subject: Re: Clusters, MOP, IA-64 8 Message-ID: <uiobfugqpegbrtepsrqe8vflavrkd2bhru@4ax.com>  @ On 30 May 2002 00:21:04 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:i   >iD >  Once we are closer to production use of OpenVMS on IA-64, we willE >  then be looking to determine if there is a need to qualify and to  E >  support what will then be years old VAX hardware with EV7 or EV79 oB >  or IA-64 or other Alpha boxes.  Our stated goal is to get IA-64A >  and Alpha working together, and to keep Alpha and VAX working.   > Mark Gorham went a little further at Reading and said that theD *intention* is to make VAX and IA64 cluster together and he would be@ very surprised if any combination didn't work - it just won't beB formally qualified. VMS engineering, he said, will internally testB some mixed VAX/Alpha/IA64 clusters and, if anything is found to beE broken, fix it. Given that some major customers had specific concerns D it was now likely that some *specific* combinations will be formallyD qualified and supported (although this isn't a cast iron commitment.2 Anyone specifically concerned should contact him).  $ I hope I have quoted him accurately.   >m >nO > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------tO >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    MO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- M >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comt   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 08:26:34 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e3 Subject: Re: Comments on HP rebuttal of Gartner/IBM 3 Message-ID: <H8C+P$uMqyCd@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  a In article <Vzw6NGttDMTV@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:y     	Minor correction.   > H > http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/00/03/biztech/articles/20soft.html > K > IBM dispatched emissaries to speak with members of the Linux community, abO > worldwide network of programmers who develop and debug the code. IBM met withoO > academics, consultants, economists and venture capitalists to plumb the LinuxnK > phenomenon. It made small investments in a couple of Linux start-ups, and . > offered Linux on one line of its computers.  > C > But last fall [2000], Big Blue suddenly got serious about Linux. - >   A But last fall [1999], Big Blue suddenly got serious about Linux. C  # 	The article was penned March 2000.R   				RobU   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 13:02:35 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e1 Subject: Re: Compaq Commitments:  Expiration Datef, Message-ID: <ad57tb$1qbu$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  * In article <3CF57043.9643B8E@pacbell.net>,+  Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:o |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  |> > i0 |> > In article <3CF51839.5282FD59@pacbell.net>,0 |> >  Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes: |> > |>sS |> > |> Agree. And when any product is no longer supported by it's manufacturer, it:P |> > |> should be Open Sourced, so those who are committed to it can maintain it  |> > |> themselves if they like. |> >  H |> > Considering that even if VMS were EOLed it would still contain manyG |> > parts that were proprietary and trade secret information, it seemsME |> > highly unlikely that any attempt to force an idea like this intoc |> > reality could happen. |> > MQ |> Although I wasn't thinking about VMS itself, the point is if you are no longereN |> willing to support a product, at least let your customers take over if they	 |> want. tQ |> I wonder how much SERIOUS proprietary and trade secret information there wouldoO |> be in a product the manufacturer no longer wanted anything to do with ? It'swA |> likely that that information is of no interest to them either.t |> u  B Many moons ago a compnay called MicroWare wrote a real-time OS forC the M6809 called OS-9.  As time progressed, they wrote a version ofaC OS-9 for the M68K which was called OS9-68K or just plain OSK.  Both.B of these were written entirely in assembler.  The comuter industryD developed further and they rewrote the whole thing in a higher levelA language to take advantage of newer processors, in particular thelD x86.  This one they called OS9000.  They dropped all support for theD original M6809 versions and at this point probably no longer supportB the assembler version for the 68K either.  Will they release theseF older versions so people (like me) who run OS9 or OS9-68K can maintainE them ourselves??  Do you think none of the algorithms or methods thatoE made OS9 a power in the real-time world were carried forward in a newL implementation in OS9000??  E Most companies would let the older product just disappear long before C they are likely to give it away, no matter how obsolete it seesm to?E be (take IAS for example or something more current, Ultrix-32.)  And,.D because it is their intelectual property, it is theirs to do with as they will.     bill   -- 4J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:58:37 -0700.9 From: "Weiner, Howard (Howie)" <Howiew@ci.portland.or.us>u4 Subject: Re: CONTROL T not working on Alpha (fixed!)H Message-ID: <ED06176444B7D511886300D0B70809FD03300C@ecntexchg.boec.city>  5 CONTROL T problem solved! Thanks to all for the help.9@ I simply moved to a different terminal server and lo and behold,< CTRL/T has been restored. I didn't go back to try and figure7 out what the difference was. It works now, so I'm done.F  : Hey Peter (Weaver) - that was a pretty cool little command5 procedure to echo back the input character... thanks.E   Howie Weiner howiew@ci.portland.or.us   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 01:35:17 -0700" From: daveparboo@hotmail.com (DXP) Subject: Curious error message= Message-ID: <819f1cc4.0205300035.5e338859@posting.google.com>n   Greetings...  $ Have you ever tried the following...   $ EXIT 2932   B (Although I'm at a loss as to know why anyone would have had to to this)N  1 Anyway, would anyone care to comment on what thisR$ cryptic/philisophical message means?   Many thanks in a dance   Dave   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:46:54 +0100 (MET)O9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o" Subject: Re: Curious error message; Message-ID: <01KIC3NCK4SY96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    > $ EXIT 2932   : There was a thread on this here a few weeks or months ago.  A It is a reference to the greatest sketch in Monty Python's FlyingSC Circus, another great sketch being the Spanish Inquisition, which I G mentioned this morning in a followup to a post by Hoff.  Wait, today I dD have mentioned the TWO greatest sketches---but I also like the Dead G Parrot, so that's THREE.  AMONG the great Monty Python's Flying Circus tE sketches are the Spanish Inquisition, the bogus phrase book, and the   dead parrot.  3    http://www.montypython.net/scripts/phrasebk.php B   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 12:46:22 GMT# From: rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam / Subject: IDE controller in Alphaserver 4100???? ' Message-ID: <ad56uu$6ev$1@tejo.csic.es>   F I have and alphaserver 4100, I will need to add an online file storage' as cheap as posible to keep it running.sL I would like to know if anyone has any experiencies with PCI IDE controlers.H An it has been any good, for dicusions of the DS alphaserver seems that 2 most of the IDE disk would work with the DQDRIVER.   Thanks   RicardoU   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:43:33 GMT01 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)e' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?:< Message-ID: <FfoJ8.172803$Q42.7560537@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  . JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote: :. : <conspiracy theory>MK : Carly and Culry purposefully chose to put all of the non windows systems sJ : on IA64, knowing IA64 would lag behind the 8086 and never be a success, H : ensuring that Wintel servers will grow and take ever larger chunks of 3 : enterprise computing because of their performancen : </conspiracy theory> : 1 Intel's CEO, Craig Barrett, supported the merger.   @ One of the business magazines, Business Week, Forbes, or FortuneF ran an article about the quarterly meetings Bill Gates and Andy Grove B held,to make sure Microsoft and Intel didn't did have any brewing  technical conflicts. :  I : Look at Windows. for all its faults, people still continue to buy that -I : crap because Microsoft keeps promising the next version will be better.h : K And they believe it, just like "Peanuts", when Charlie Brown ready to kick sM the ball and Lucy promises Charlie she won't yank it away at the last second,y even though she always does.  H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 05:48:41 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?e= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205300448.759d9807@posting.google.com>e  r "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<OlcJ8.69311$Gs.6423217@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CF54BEE.3BD3496F@videotron.ca... >  > ...o > N > > If Carly doesn't perform as expected, she will eventually get the boot, atL > > which point, her replacement may be in a position to reverse some of the >  wrong= > > decisions made by Carly, at least those still reversable.f > M > Alpha isn't even reversible now, unless the EV8 team has been continuing to K > develop EV8 in secret at Intel (Bob the Mouth thinks so, but I don't knowvJ > anyone credible who does).  Otherwise, it has lost nearly a full year ofL > time, plus whatever additional time (likely another year) it would take toJ > regain the development momentum it once had.  Hang a two-year penalty onL > Alpha and the lies propagated by the HPS team become truths:  it no longerN > has a sufficient lead over even Itanic (let alone POWER, Hammer, and - if it" > appears - Yamhill) to be viable. >  > - bill  I from what we are hearing about spec results on itanic/hammer so far, theytH can't even touch EV7 yet ... plenty of time for the EV8/EV9 steam rollerE to crank back up, although if you read the above inquirer article, itgH seems there is plenty of interest in EV8/EV9 from other sources already.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:15:18 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?l@ Message-ID: <qesJ8.64318$%y.6758511@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagen& news:3CF59018.1010104@tsoft-inc.com...   ...i  I > If you were to assigned the task of starting up a new processor design,o there D > would be some learning curve, but I'd think that there are no real
 secrets.  YoupI > should be able to hire some talent, develope some, buy some technology,  etc.  ItE > might take a while to reach the top, but it isn't impossible to do.   L Of course it's not impossible to do, if you have infinite funds and consider" it a hobby rather than a business.  J Alpha was a viable product for Compaq (despite its neglect) because it hadL an existing customer base, an existing development effort, and at least someG reasonable market share and considerably greater mind share (due to its,J clear leading performance position).  It is a radically different businessL proposition to try to *resurrect* it after having lost major portions of allH of these - much more like attempting to break into an established marketH with a new product that doesn't offer any compelling advantages over the existing ones.  K And the rules are changing fast with the introduction of Hammer and (maybe)bI Yamhill and their ability to push the RISC (and EPIC) products farther upoL the food chain toward niche status.  Most of the rationale behind Itanic wasJ that it would extend 'industry-standard' technology and volume up into theI high end, but now it appears more likely that Hammer/Yamhill will insteaddA extend it up through the mid-range (and leave the high end to the K specialized products).  If Itanic sinks under those circumstances, it's notgI clear that Intel will feel any need to replace it at all rather than justbG divert its efforts into Yamhill (which it needs to do anyway to counterM Hammer).  H The value of SMT (real SMT, not the toy present in P4) per se may be tooI short-lived to find another home, since as core sizes become small enoughnH SMT becomes less relevant (it's almost as effective just to use multipleG whole cores):  EV8 would have appeared at the right time to justify theoK effort, but delay it a few more process generations and the effort might beo better spent elsewhere.s  L Despite having squandered several years' lead over the rest of the industry,J as of last June Alpha was still in a position where it could have thrived.D That is no longer the case:  as I said, unless Intel really has been5 continuing EV8 development on the sly, Alpha is dead.c   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 07:59:22 GMTi. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)M Subject: Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?p3 Message-ID: <uZkJ8.15369$305.205236@news.chello.at>r  _ In article <ad43cb$8fe$2@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:iI >:PS: Has anyone lately seen the VAX_DWEURO ECO ? Where to download now ?  >fN >  ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/vax/v5.5-2/decwindows_motif/1.2-4/  O That is - as also the URL says - for DWMOTIF V1.2-4, and not for 1.2-6. No, itsm  P ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/vax/v7.3/vaxdwmotmup01_073.a-dcx_vaxexe  N and not - as in previous versions - in a decwindows or decwindows_motif subdir0 and is also named like VMS and not like MOTIF...  P >:PPS: Did anyone understand why there is a DWMOTMUP for VAX but not for Alpha ? >aA >  .../public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_dw_mot_mup-v0100--4.*t  ? Shame on me. I don't understand why I missed it more than once.a   Thanks Hoffp   -- s Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:07:19 GMTs. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)M Subject: Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?e3 Message-ID: <X4lJ8.15432$305.211721@news.chello.at>   _ In article <ad43cb$8fe$2@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:vd >In article <axdJ8.9641$305.162177@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:M >:Problem is that the ident string is strange (eg. T1.2-6) in these images...t >dB >  Yes, it is strange and it does indicate a (very minor) problem. >nF >  This problem is, however, entirely expected and entirely harmless.   8 Harmless ? Yes, that's what I thought and still believe.J Expected ? Not that I'm aware off. Please, who has expected this problem ?  E >  These particular text strings are from the version identification  D >  strings from the image headers, and the images were not relinked E >  with "V" versions before release -- the "T", and more specificallyoE >  all letters "E" through "U", indicates a field test version -- butA >  that is not the case here.  f >,@ >  DECwindows has always had somewhat unusual uses for the imageA >  identification text strings, and this particular use could be s, >  viewed as continuing that tradition.  :-)  E Thanks for the smiley. Without it, I'd probably bitten the carpet ;-).   >  Put another way, ignore it.  E Or wait until DEC/Digital/COMPAQ/HPQ/name-of-the-week releases an ECO   which fixes this annoyance :-)))   -- - Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 02 19:39:36 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)iM Subject: Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF? ) Message-ID: <tmziAfsdSbHG@elias.decus.ch>t   In article <rdeininger-2905022209540001@11cust44.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:H > In article <3GpMeUqkaQKC@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul > Sture) wrote:g > O >>On a system newly upgraded to V7.3 and Motif V1.2-6 the version number stringt. >>is an unexpected T1.2-6, so this test fails. > L > Where did you get this kit?  The "T" looks like a field test or prereleaseL > version of some sort.  I don't think a regular kit should have made it out > the door with a "T".  > From the V7.3 distribution CD that came in the leather wallet. Part number AG-QSBZE-BS.   $ show dev $2$dka400B $2$DKA400:    (KON262)  Mounted alloc 0  ALPHA073   5265     1   1                         wrtlck   $ dir/siz=all/da -C $2$DKA400:[DWMOTIF_ALPHA126.KIT]DEC-AXPVMS-DWMOTIF-V0102-6-1.PCSI;1t  * Directory $2$DKA400:[DWMOTIF_ALPHA126.KIT]  # DEC-AXPVMS-DWMOTIF-V0102-6-1.PCSI;1-=                       170160/170163   23-FEB-2001 20:35:21.00   & Total of 1 file, 170160/170163 blocks.     $ @sys$update:decw$versionsu7 DECwindows ident is                     DW T1.2-6010222f6 DECwindows server ident is              DW V7.1-0103176 DECwindows transport ident is           DW V7.3-0108207 DECwindows xlib ident is                DW T1.2-6010222n7 DECwindows OSF/Motif Toolkit ident is   DW T1.2-6010222 7 DECwindows apps ident is                DW V1.2-6010222r7 DECwindows programming ident is         DW T1.2-6010222n     __
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 02 19:43:02 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)cM Subject: Re: Is there a supported way to determine the version no of DWMOTIF?f) Message-ID: <JDferSE2J3$2@elias.decus.ch>r  _ In article <ad43cb$8fe$2@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:s > e > In article <axdJ8.9641$305.162177@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:sv > :In article <n69J8.7073$fa1.153885900@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com> writes:0 > :>"Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:F > :>> So, is there a better or formally supported way to determine the > :>> correct version number?- > C >   No.  Each product varies.  In the case of DECwindows, check then@ >   PCSI database.  The OpenVMS FAQ has details on some of this. >  > / > :>Take a look at SYS$UPDATE:DECW$VERSIONS.COMu > :dI > :So what ? This procedure does the same as the orig. poster's procedurec > :n" > :$ @SYS$UPDATE:DECW$VERSIONS.COM > :  > :Alpha (7.3, 1.2-6, DWEURO)3: > :DECwindows ident is                     DW T1.2-60102229 > :DECwindows server ident is              DW V7.1-010317c9 > :DECwindows transport ident is           DW V7.3-010820 : > :DECwindows xlib ident is                DW T1.2-6010222: > :DECwindows OSF/Motif Toolkit ident is   DW T1.2-6010222: > :DECwindows apps ident is                DW V1.2-6010222: > :DECwindows programming ident is         DW T1.2-6010222 > .. >  > N > :Problem is that the ident string is strange (eg. T1.2-6) in these images... > C >   Yes, it is strange and it does indicate a (very minor) problem.  > G >   This problem is, however, entirely expected and entirely harmless. c > A Oops, "entirely harmless" enough to break a piece of code writtene in 1995 :-) :-)S  F >   These particular text strings are from the version identification E >   strings from the image headers, and the images were not relinked lF >   with "V" versions before release -- the "T", and more specificallyF >   all letters "E" through "U", indicates a field test version -- but  >   that is not the case here.   > A >   DECwindows has always had somewhat unusual uses for the imageoB >   identification text strings, and this particular use could be - >   viewed as continuing that tradition.  :-)  >  >   Put another way, ignore it.h >  Done.a __
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:10:01 -0700 (PDT)p. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>H Subject: Re: Lots of hobbyist VAXen for sale (Amsterdam/the Netherlands)@ Message-ID: <20020530171001.82599.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>  	 VAX ???? r    4 May be a good museu in an university or for children. at technical school to learn basic concepts of3 discrete electronics ! Why dont donate the toe Eastr Timor ?????L  
 Fabio Cardosoi --- Michiel Erensc5 <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> wrote:g1 > I noticed an ad from someone who sells a lot ofr > Vaxen for 6 > what I  think is a fair price. Like Vax 4000 VLC for > EUR 10,- r > and Vax 4000-60 for EUR 15,- i > 2 > You can find the ad on http://www.marktplaats.nl. > category : computers hardware, subcategory : > sun/unix/sgi y' > The date of the 4 ads are 30-apr-2002c+ > (or mail direct to rschipper@tribase.nl).h > 6 > B.t.w. I have nothing to do with it, except that I'm
 > now the  > proud owner of a 4000-60 :-) >  > --   > ME > Posted by news://news.nb.nue     =====a ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilL fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.coms   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:11:46 GMTr1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> + Subject: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readinga8 Message-ID: <CVmJ8.2985$fT5.850880@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  E Any feedback from the VMS Seminar in Reading, UK? Any of you UK-basedsH lurkers attend the event, and if so, do you remember anything of it? ;-}   -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows HPCs" PLEASE NOTE MY *NEW* EMAIL ADDRESS email: terryshannon@attbi.comi4 Web (info on SKHPC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:06:00 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> / Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readinge8 Message-ID: <9m6cfuoaeakc2dujm1rju01rsj8oqsjfba@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 30 May 2002 10:11:46 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:b  F >Any feedback from the VMS Seminar in Reading, UK? Any of you UK-basedI >lurkers attend the event, and if so, do you remember anything of it? ;-}T     Yep.  B Mark Gorham opened by asking if Mike Magee was present and said heF would welcome his attendance. Mike tells me he never received a formal invitation.t  E Mark (and the other presenters) gave very up-beat talks and its clearoA VMS engineering has every confidence in meeting/beating publishedg	 roadmaps.t  E Mark approached me at the break and I found him to be a very positiveaE individual. He listened to multiple customer concerns - eg. VMS ports E of Enterprise Products (SAP, Oracle Developer etc), customer disquiettF surrounding statements from Michael "EVISCERATE" Capellas, ADA, forced3 migrations to IA64 etc -  with good grace at least.c  E A number of ex DEC employees chucked some of the hardest balls in his D direction but he didn't fall over. Hopefully that means he can fightF hard for VMS within HP. Says they have a lot of friends within HP IA64D and server development who can't wait to have VMS running on HP kit. And that's a good thing.  ( Lunch saw the brewery tour and free bar.  D Afterwards we had some more Storageworks info plus VMS futures but IF had to dash off for a plane before the end. Storage sizes and transferC rates for the top end equipment are getting so high as to be almoste incomprehensible..  D Freebies included a Compaq pen which flashes whenever your cellphoneB receives a call. Handy for silent ring if you don't like vibrating4 objects down your pants. Handy if you do as well :-)    @ Another free bar at the end but I was away by then. I could haveE stayed for another hour as  I ended up at Heathrow one hour early foriA the flight. Seems the locals over-estimated the traffic problems.e Which is unusual for the M25    All in all an enjoyable meeting.  ? But Mark was left in little doubt that we need no more negativeeD surprises. Everyone is watching closely. And someone needs to shutupD Capellas. I guess he has allies from HP-UX engineering on this front now. -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:31:12 GMTa From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGp/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readinge0 Message-ID: <00A0EB5E.51539D9A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <9m6cfuoaeakc2dujm1rju01rsj8oqsjfba@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >aA >Another free bar at the end but I was away by then. I could haveyF >stayed for another hour as  I ended up at Heathrow one hour early forB >the flight. Seems the locals over-estimated the traffic problems. >Which is unusual for the M25-  G You didn't ride 1st class on the First Great Western back to Paddington@ for the express to Heathrow?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo            c5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:49:17 +0100e' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> / Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading.2 Message-ID: <300520021749171823%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  A In article <CVmJ8.2985$fT5.850880@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, Terry C.r' Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:e  G > Any feedback from the VMS Seminar in Reading, UK? Any of you UK-basedeJ > lurkers attend the event, and if so, do you remember anything of it? ;-} > ? Well, my mum always said, .."if you can't say anything nice..."h  G To tell you the truth I went there feeling a little depressed. Came out  about the same.l  B Nobody seems to get the irony of talking about VMS with powerpoint slides.t  D Lots of gung-ho we have heard before how four or five industries are" global strategic enterprise yadda.  F All the usual blunted timeline arrows re mid-stream horse interchange.  - Upbeat stuff about 7.3.1 Ruby "A gem in July"d  G Careful explanation of the "tools to help you move to HP-UX" statementsaE that had been made. Along the lines of "we won't push, honest, but ifn you jump, we'll help you"f  D A few throw-aways like "everyone wants to develop VMS code in VisualD Studio don't they?" John Apps should have been lynched for that one,G but everyone sat there comatose. One person gently suggested that might B not be the best way, since if it half works on Windows, that's all4 anyone expects, so why bother with two environments?  & Positive stuff about VMS "ambassadors"  E Fairly pathetic attempt to say there are lots of new applications foriA VMS because it has a Java runtime that sort of works. With slidesy@ showing a complete dog's breakfast of competing midddleware Java1 snake-oil. Like we don't need MMS because of Ant.   F Highlight of presenter discomfort was when Alan Grieg asked how Mark GC could be so upbeat about VMS future when "..your President, Michaele? Capellas said.. (and quoted the 'eviscerate' speech in stunningc detail)"  . "er.. he was quoted out of context" said Mark.  G I had to leave a bit early. Missed the last two sessions. I was on callu
 that evening.d  D General atmosphere was everyone there had a long VMS history, hopingC for any tidbit of good news that would keep them or their customers  loyal.  D Very few were from the targetted major global industries, apart fromC folk on the fringes of the military, so there was an unspoken 'whatr
 about us?'  E Nothing at all to dispel the feeling that the VMS group are competentgG engineers running a decent business inside a monster that does not eveneC know they are there, or if it does, would prefer not to think about C them because it does not fit in with the PC/printer preconceptions.l   and the beer? I was driving.   ElliottP   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:33:37 +0100r( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com>N Subject: Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...* Message-ID: <3CF5E3E1.6040607@bigfoot.com>   Chris Bardell wrote:   <snip again>   > Only 400UKPF >(say $700USD) more than a year's rental to *buy* the f***er outright.> >I submitted this for approval - answer was no. Apparently theD >*purchase* made it a capital expenditure (ie: CapEx - not allowed).F >Whereas 'operational expenditure' (OpEx - such as licence rental) was
 >allowed.  >oH Don't knock it, this sort of attitude used to keep a lot of contractors < in work ;-) sadly it doesn't seem to be so at the moment :-(     --  , Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:49:08 GMTo4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>N Subject: Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...0 Message-ID: <3CF656C2.D875A9D1@blueyonder.co.uk>   Chris Bardell wrote: > n > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CF50D40.7009025C@blueyonder.co.uk>... > 8 > [snip, getting too long even before my bullsh!t below] > K > > > Another related thang - anyone else think there can be something of aMI > > > 'project manager conspiracy'? It must be more impressive for PMs to I > > > have (say) "migration of major business systems from XYZ to ABC" on1J > > > their CV/resume than just "kept the existing OpenVMS systems going &( > > > ensuring their long-term health".# > > L > > Bah, project managing is part of the day job for a VMS sysmgr, or should > > be.f > < > Spot-on - it should be. Just get the bastards who sign the. > cheques/checks to even *conceive* that idea.  B :-). They are scared you will go overbudget etc. However, they nowB have to employ project managers, admin people etc to "control" the. techies :-(. Ah well, thats buisiness in 2002.   > @ > I should add that I don't harbour any "racism" towards project2 > managers (I've worked with some brilliant ones).  1 Me too, just enough to be frustrated by the rest.p   >Just depends on theirF > attitude, realism, and understanding of the underlying issues. OTOH,H > they may themselves have been unwittingly handed a poisoned chalice... > C > BTW, Alan SSRL - very interesting post. I'm sure I'm not the only.> > person in c.o.v for whom it rings a whole chorus of bells... > G > Brief example of mine: at a contract a few years back, I had to renew0E > a VMS licence for a production system (for a major UK co). It was acG > rental licence; I got a quote for another year's rental - it was very F > expensive. So, I got a quote for the outright purchase. Only 400UKPG > (say $700USD) more than a year's rental to *buy* the f***er outright.r? > I submitted this for approval - answer was no. Apparently the@E > *purchase* made it a capital expenditure (ie: CapEx - not allowed). G > Whereas 'operational expenditure' (OpEx - such as licence rental) wasaG > allowed. Checked back through the paperwork - they had been *renting* G > this licence for 4 years. An incredible *WASTE* of money. Coulda paidt/ > for an Op to get into a tech department, etc.N  H Sheesh, don't talk to me about it, another good one is letting the maintJ contract lapse in error then having to puchase upgrade licences. Also, notL upgrading hardware even when it would be cheaper to do so than keep existing hardware on maintenence.   regardse -- a tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk "  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 07:45:53 GMT , From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com> Subject: Re: No new ALL-IN-11 Message-ID: <RMkJ8.2$pd4.134273@news.cpqcorp.net>t  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CF52D50.30F1D2C9@videotron.ca... .n .  ./J > But in the end, it is your decision if you do not wish to be included in the: > hobbyist programme.L  G You flatter me. I've  passed your suggestion on to the Product Manager.g   be   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 02 19:30:35 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)- Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales:) Message-ID: <Uqoo2V5KMQKm@elias.decus.ch>l  m In article <vyaJ8.68637$Gs.6337055@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:H > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > news:Lq8J8.128462$ah_.34080@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...R >>8 >> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message= >> news:ZaRI8.48693$Kp.5012136@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...n >  > ...e >  >> > About the closest toV >> anhL >> > apples-to-apples comparison you could get would be to run the test on aI >> > 32-processor E15K and see how it compared with the maxed-out GS box,e > usingo( >> > top-of-the-line processors in each. >>K >> Yes, but....a lot of times the purchasing decision has no bearing on theCL >> technical merits of how high or linearly the thing scales. It often comesA >> down to the question of "How much bang can I buy for my buck".  > M > That would be a relevant comment if we were discussing purchasing decisionsPE > (or even cost/effectiveness) rather than per-processor performance.D > M > It's even less relevant given that Sun's pricing structure in general seems J > to be considerably more aggressive than Alpha's (can you say 'cash cow'?L > the term seems even more appropriate now that its food supply has been cutC > off in expectation of its demise).  Even if Alpha *did* seriously-D > out-perform USIII (and the speed bump to 1224 MHz and on-chip glueG > enhancements in EV7 will likely restore that situation) it would onlyTN > compete successfully if cHumPaq passed along the efficiencies resulting fromH > requiring fewer processors to customers in the form of reduced prices. >   7 But Sun can gouge too according to a story on Slashdot:-  ? From http://slashdot.org/articles/02/05/29/1651232.shtml?tid=99a   "With the release of Solaris 9, , Sun has bundled many goodies, including an  LDAP directory server and a J2EE8 application server. At the same time, while a single CPU1 license is still free, they've begun charging forn7 multiprocessor systems. As a kicker, purchasers of usedc: systems may find that they have to pay Sun an OS licensing; fee. (Curiously, the 2 CPU server version seems to be $249,i< while the 4 CPU desktop is $199. In some cases it's the same9 motherboard, power supply and memory!). At the upper end,s3 that million dollar machine from Ebay may require ae< $400,000 fee :-) I like Solaris for many reasons, but I have> to wonder: will this pay off? " Solaris is certainly a capable6 os, but sheeze that seems like an awful lot of money."  6 But I agree that Sun has it right for the entry level,? as that's where many applications get developed and potentially  large users may start.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  , Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:39:57 +0200 (CEST)% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>t$ Subject: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!D Message-ID: <3dde6f82087b6b318b7f82347095f842@remailer.segfault.net>  > This morning during my first masturbation session of the day ID discovered my penis is covered with painful sores full of pus.  What> could this be?  Also my ass hurts really bad and my asshole is bleeding.  Please help me!   Jean-Francois Mezeii   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:59:43 -0700 (PDT)i. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!@ Message-ID: <20020530165943.14779.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  . Call the canadian 911 ..... I cant help you !        Fabio * --- JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote:6 > This morning during my first masturbation session of > the day Ie3 > discovered my penis is covered with painful soresv > full of pus.  What5 > could this be?  Also my ass hurts really bad and my  > asshole is > bleeding.  Please help me! >  > Jean-Francois Mezei      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilg fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:19:36 GMTs, From: "Ted Johnston" <tjohnston48@yahoo.c0m>( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!; Message-ID: <IatJ8.29415$wj7.10520433@twister.socal.rr.com>.  G Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.n@  It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.3  Please report problems or inappropriate use to the 1  remailer administrator at <jochen@segfault.net>.a(  http://remailer.segfault.net/mixmaster/   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:12:59 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a% Subject: OpenVMS FAQ due next week... ; Message-ID: <01KIBYELO4C2984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  H >   I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS F >   FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text, ! >   Postscript, and HTML formats.    Using VAXdocument?  :-)u  E What about a BOOKREADER version of the FAQ.  :-)  :-)  (Seriously, I eI REALLY LIKE "Search Book(s)".  There is no easy alternative if the books  G are replaced with lots of little HTML files, and one big HTML file has = other problems.)  F >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesG >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred oH >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here E >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or r >   download it suffice?    A I'm sure that a pointer will be enough, but perhaps someone will  	 disagree.o  / > (Or are there other distribution alternativese7   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)a   AMONG my questions are...r  1    http://www.montypython.net/scripts/spanish.php    :-)L   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 03:44:24 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)g) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week... 3 Message-ID: <cMlv4NeH1S6w@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  _ In article <ad40k7$6bt$3@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:m >  > H >   I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS F >   FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text, ! >   Postscript, and HTML formats.d > F >   The downside of all this work is that the new FAQ is substantiallyH >   larger than previous editions, requiring 1415 blocks versus 887 for H >   one of the most recent older versions.  The format has also changed. > G >   One content question: any last-minute updates for the next edition? C >   (I expect to be passing the new FAQ files along to the OpenVMS n >   webmaster early next week) > F >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesG >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred rH >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here E >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or tG >   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternativesc9 >   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)d  D Not the question you asked, but I would like to see the HTML versionA subdivided so it does not freeze the browser.  It does not matterlF which browser if the goal is communications rather than browser sales.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:22:21 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week... , Message-ID: <3CF5EF4D.922060F5@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  F > Not the question you asked, but I would like to see the HTML versionC > subdivided so it does not freeze the browser.  It does not matterrH > which browser if the goal is communications rather than browser sales.  I That is a question of providing enough hints to the browser to format the L table as the text is being received instead of having to wait until all textD has been received to flow it to determine how columbs should be set.K Unfortunatly, too many will hardcode values for table widths, not realising E that not all screens are the same size. (one should use percentages)..  N Another way to make the process appear much faster is to close the table afterL each section and open a new one. This way the browser has a much easier timeA fitting/sizing the tables since tey are all individually smaller.y  K But if the Wizzard is using a pre-built tool to generate the HTML, I am notg( sure he would have much control over it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:51:19 +0100g9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>b) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...e? Message-ID: <6c09b33e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   ) In message <ad40k7$6bt$3@web1.cup.hp.com>t=           hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:n   >  > H >   I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS F >   FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text, ! >   Postscript, and HTML formats.  > F >   The downside of all this work is that the new FAQ is substantiallyH >   larger than previous editions, requiring 1415 blocks versus 887 for H >   one of the most recent older versions.  The format has also changed. > G >   One content question: any last-minute updates for the next edition?.C >   (I expect to be passing the new FAQ files along to the OpenVMS o >   webmaster early next week) > F >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesG >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred lH >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here E >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or hG >   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternativesp9 >   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)f  D I'd be happy with an announcement. I've set size limits on newsgroupE postings, which mean I only see the headers of FAQs, not the content.e   > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    -- h
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/d   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 06:09:51 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...a3 Message-ID: <pxUfnJxWX8fQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  _ In article <ad40k7$6bt$3@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:e >  > H >   I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS F >   FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text, ! >   Postscript, and HTML formats.p >   G I would be interested in knowing what the source format now is and whato2 tools you are using to generate the other formats.  F >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesG >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred eH >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here E >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or  G >   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternativesk9 >   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)w >   J My vote is to place them on a website, with an announcement in comp.os.vms7 as that way we can choose which format we want to read.n  J Also, given the size and the number of pieces, can you also place a zippedH version of the various formats on the website (with the files in the zipG file in a format that can be read on a non-VMS system, ie: not variable- length, but a stream format) ?   Thanks,0   Simon.   -- rB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.r   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 06:30:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)0) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week... 3 Message-ID: <xzNfXEvOYzQm@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  x In article <pxUfnJxWX8fQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:a > In article <ad40k7$6bt$3@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  >> t >> pI >>   I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS oG >>   FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text, -" >>   Postscript, and HTML formats. >>   > I > I would be interested in knowing what the source format now is and whatu4 > tools you are using to generate the other formats.  C Regardless of what he happens to be using, if you have a project of>B your own you can produce those formats (plus Bookreader) using DEC	 Document.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:04:34 -0400g5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> ) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week... 2 Message-ID: <JBX2PGz=1z7RxL42TMsLzbYJIgnN@4ax.com>  : Access to the FAQ (say via HTTP) would be fine, and thanks for your work on the FAQ.r   David R. Beattyr  @ On 30 May 2002 01:52:07 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:s   >g > G >  I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS  E >  FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text, t  >  Postscript, and HTML formats. >aE >  The downside of all this work is that the new FAQ is substantially.G >  larger than previous editions, requiring 1415 blocks versus 887 for mG >  one of the most recent older versions.  The format has also changed.  >lF >  One content question: any last-minute updates for the next edition?B >  (I expect to be passing the new FAQ files along to the OpenVMS  >  webmaster early next week)g >oE >  One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articleslF >  that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred G >  block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here  D >  of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or F >  download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternatives8 >  that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...) >  > O > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- O >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    qO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------rM >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comw   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 07:50:28 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)l) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...l3 Message-ID: <clUZs4Km$kES@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <ad40k7$6bt$3@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:t > F >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesG >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred oH >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here E >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or aG >   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternativesl9 >   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)2  D    As long as I can get a text-only version, I don't care how.  HTML:    is nice, but sometimes I need to read the FAQ with EDT.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:43:48 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>o) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...2& Message-ID: <3CF62C94.33AC411@vcu.edu>  E I've gotten the FAQ via Lynx, and that will edt-ize it for me.. well,  *most* of the time... ;-)o  @ there are some faqs out there that are, well, heavy on gewgaws..   Bob Koehler wrote: > a > In article <ad40k7$6bt$3@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:j > >RH > >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesH > >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundredI > >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here F > >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/orI > >   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternatives>; > >   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)  > F >    As long as I can get a text-only version, I don't care how.  HTML< >    is nice, but sometimes I need to read the FAQ with EDT.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:49:32 -0500o4 From: Arlen Williams <arlen.williams@remove.eds.com>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...s- Message-ID: <3CF63BFC.2070601@remove.eds.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:   H >   I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS F >   FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text, ! >   Postscript, and HTML formats.P > F >   The downside of all this work is that the new FAQ is substantiallyH >   larger than previous editions, requiring 1415 blocks versus 887 for H >   one of the most recent older versions.  The format has also changed. > G >   One content question: any last-minute updates for the next edition? C >   (I expect to be passing the new FAQ files along to the OpenVMS e >   webmaster early next week) > F >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesG >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred HH >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here E >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or oG >   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternativest9 >   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)f >  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >  >   G I just need a notification of the new FAQ being available as long as I  K can still get to it through openvms.compaq.com (or whatever it changes to).r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:34:11 +0200:2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...a; Message-ID: <3cf65483.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>f  : Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:G > What about a BOOKREADER version of the FAQ.  :-)  :-)  (Seriously, I aK > REALLY LIKE "Search Book(s)".  There is no easy alternative if the books -I > are replaced with lots of little HTML files, and one big HTML file has f > other problems.)  E Provided you have a webserver running on an Alpha, you can search the8B small-file HTML FAQ by indexing it, using e.g. ht://Dig or SWISH-E (which also runs on VAX).d   cu,i   Martin -- iG  Your mouse has moved.     | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmerm4  Windows must be restarted | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deH  for the change to take    |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/;  effect. Reboot now? [OK]  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dea   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:44:04 +0100 (MET)g9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> , Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins); Message-ID: <01KIC1K70FRW96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   I > This reminds me of another interesting ratio I discovered recently. ThevH > ratio between one light-year and one Astronomical Unit (mean Earth-SunC > distance) is almost exactly the same as the number of inches in ae, > mile.... within something like 0.2% IIRC.    63,360 vs. 63,239, yep, 0.2%.=  F > Now, using this imaginary scale map, try convincing someone that the@ > universe was created specifically for the benefit of humanity.C > Remember... we're the ones crawling around on the surface of that? > invisible microbe. t  H While the universe is incredibly huge, it is also incredibly thin (what D is the opposite of "dense"?).  That famous image of the Hubble Deep G Field takes up as much room on the sky as a rice grain at arm's length.!< If you expose long enough, the sky is covered with galaxies.  ? Let's say that we understand things well up to at least nuclearsE densities.  Imagine THE ENTIRE VISIBLE UNIVERSE packed into a ball ofrE nuclear density.  It's radius would be about the same as the orbit ofiG Mars.  That's billions and billions of light years compressed down to as6 few light minutes.  That's how empty most of space is.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:58:45 +0200h& From: hb-usenet@bsls.de (Heiko Berges), Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)/ Message-ID: <ad4pk4$pql$05$1@news.t-online.com>    Russell P. Holsclaw wrote: >vL >This provides a handy scale for visualizing astronomical distances. ImagineL >a map of the solar system in which the Earth is shown only 1 inch away fromL >the Sun. A map of the Solar System, including the outer planets, would be aL >big piece of wallpaper about eight feet square, but the Sun would be a tinyK >grain of sand and the Earth the size of a microbe. This is why diagrams of K >the Solar System are never drawn to scale -- everything in it would be toor >small to see.  B Hagen/Westf. in Germany has one. (I heard it's the only one.) The C sun is a ball on top of the city hall, the planets are engraved in   bronzeplates on the sidewalks.   Scale is 1,000,000 km -> 1m.  A It does have a website, but it is in german, and it does not work @ without javascript, plus it wants you to use IE, so I don't know the exact URL.    <http://www.sternwarte-hagen.de>     (Followup-to afc set.)    	     HeikoM   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:08:27 +0100hC From: "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" <unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>4, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)4 Message-ID: <3CF5EC0B.257F2AC0@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>   Don Sykes wrote:  O > I have a similar program (somewhere in my garage I think) that calculates thehM > change in time as velocity approaches C. It's written in Basic on a punchedhE > paper tape and was created on a Honeywell 600 GECOS system in 1974.   F Incidentally a quick rule of thumb calculation indicates that the timeH I've spent partly outside Earth's gravity well in airliners has given me an extra microsecond of life.t   -- vD I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animalB lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N.  http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/C "It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a woman 5 is with child." CS Lewis - Till we have faces, Ch 21.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:04:42 +0100oC From: "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" <unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>p, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)3 Message-ID: <3CF5EB2A.C739167@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>    CBFalconer wrote:   ; > l/acre                   lenght**3/length**2     = lengthn  " No, it's figure 1 not l for litre.   -- rD I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animalB lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N.  http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/C "It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a womano5 is with child." CS Lewis - Till we have faces, Ch 21.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:03:41 +0100-C From: "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" <unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>p, Subject: Re: OT: Units (was  USofA'an coins)4 Message-ID: <3CF5EAED.4C4CBB40@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>   Kevin Handy wrote:  > > One of the programs availabel from http://www.gnu.org is one; > called units, which will convert from one unit of measuree= > to another. It is capable of many amusing conversions, suchc  > as 'miles/gallon' to '1/acre'.  F Actually this was used in the Ariadne column of the New Scientist backC in the '60s to demonstrate that a car could pick up all the fuel itwH needed from a petrol impregnated sponge strip in the middle of the road.  - Don't ask why. Ariadne never did explain why.o   -- eD I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animalB lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N.  http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/C "It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a womano5 is with child." CS Lewis - Till we have faces, Ch 21.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:00:21 +0100uC From: "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" <unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> + Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins).3 Message-ID: <3CF5EA25.D9D6EED@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>a   Larry__Weiss wrote:   F > Why does "penal colony" suddenly occur to me as a possibility?   8-[  2 Did you go to a malignant boarding school as well?   -- aD I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animalB lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N.  http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/C "It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a womana5 is with child." CS Lewis - Till we have faces, Ch 21.r   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 12:36:25 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)h+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)r: Message-ID: <ad56c9$su6$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  ) In message <3CF55CB6.13A8D19B@yahoo.com>,o,    CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> writes:   >Eric Sosman wrote: E >>     No, microfortnights.  (And that was only in the documentation; > >> the implementation actually treated the timeout duration as? >> seconds, thus committing an error of more than 20%.  I don'tr$ >> know if a bug was ever filed ...) > 0 >I get about 826 microseconds per nanofortnight.  C There are ~826.7 nanofortnights in 1 second, how you managed to geti8 that as microseconds/nanofortnight I can't quite reckon.       14 days     24 hr.   3600 secr; ----------- * ------ * -------- = 1209600 seconds/fortnightr 1 fortnight   1 day     1 hour    ?                                 = 1.2096 seconds/microfortnightn  C                                 = 1209.6 microseconds/nanofortnightc      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:iL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:43:23 -0600d> From: "Russell P. Holsclaw" <rholsclaw@nospam.xxx.fatline.com>+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)10 Message-ID: <lUqJ8.590$sP.25710@news.uswest.net>  = > > The original units are 1/acre (i.e. acre**-1), not l/acre. > > (liters/acre). >x? > > Acres, being a measure of area, are length**2, so 1/acre is.? > > length**-2, so the conversion was dimensionally consistent.e > E > Acres are a lot too large, but fuel consumption can be expressed inpF > square millimetres. This can be thought of as the cross section of a. > trough out of which your car scoops its fuel > E > Thus 30 miles/gallon (Imperial) equates to a cross section of about  > 0.3 mm on a side.o  K Very good. I was on the verge of pointing that out myself, a physical model C which actually makes the unit conversion meaningful in more-or-lesstI real-world terms (assuming that there were vehicles that scoop their fuelw> out of troughs). Actually, I was thinking in terms of the meanH cross-sectional area of the trail of fuel dribbled down the road from an( "equivalent fuel leak". Same basic idea.  K A small point here, of course, is that the unit that's convertible to acreshG (or any other area measure) would be "Gallons per mile", the inverse ofcK "miles per gallon". This measure is used frequently for large vehicles thatfH use fuel in greater quantities. ISTR getting "amusing facts" emails fromF people that mention, among other things, the number of gallons of fuelI required to move the QE2 one foot, for example. I also recall hearing thehF fuel "economy" of an M1A1 tank expressed in gallons per mile. (I guess, they're not called "tanks" for nothing, eh?) --
 Russ Holsclawr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:44:22 -0400m' From: Eric Sosman <Eric.Sosman@sun.com>0+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins) ' Message-ID: <3CF648D6.C032EACD@sun.com>s   David Jones wrote: > + > In message <3CF55CB6.13A8D19B@yahoo.com>,e. >    CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> writes: >  > >Eric Sosman wrote:eG > >>     No, microfortnights.  (And that was only in the documentation;m@ > >> the implementation actually treated the timeout duration asA > >> seconds, thus committing an error of more than 20%.  I don'ti& > >> know if a bug was ever filed ...) > > 2 > >I get about 826 microseconds per nanofortnight. > E > There are ~826.7 nanofortnights in 1 second, how you managed to geto: > that as microseconds/nanofortnight I can't quite reckon.       He inverted the quotient.o  ! >   14 days     24 hr.   3600 secn= > ----------- * ------ * -------- = 1209600 seconds/fortnight   > 1 fortnight   1 day     1 hour > A >                                 = 1.2096 seconds/microfortnightt > E >                                 = 1209.6 microseconds/nanofortnightg  9     Yes.  One of the VMS system services (I forget which) : took a time interval expressed in seconds, and the on-line: HELP documentation whimsically stated that the timeout was: to be expressed in units of microfortnights.  Just in case9 someone missed the joke, there was a parenthetical remarke7 to the effect that one microfortnight was approximatelyo8 equal to one second.  It's really 1.2+ seconds, hence my reference to a 20% error.w  6     I confess I rather enjoyed the occasional humorous5 touches in DEC documentation and software.  One of myo5 favorites was in the RSX system generation procedure:e6 you spent a long time answering questions about how to3 configure the system, then the machine went off andt3 assembled a customized kernel for you.  This took ao% while, so the console carefully typedn   	SET TERM/COFFEEBREAKs    before starting the assembly and   	SET TERM/NOCOFFEEBREAK   7 when the assembly completed and the chit-chat was about-6 to resume.  Years later, in homage to the RSX folks, I7 put the same joke in the installation procedure for theh7 VMS version of my then-company's principal product; I'mf7 sure lots of installers noticed it, and I hope at leastt a few understood the reference.s   -- e Eric.Sosman@sun.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:50:02 GMT-* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> Subject: Re: phaser740 dcpsm5 Message-ID: <300520021144290108%paul.anderson@hp.com>a  G In article <20020528081312.203B8280057@smail.physik.uni-bonn.de>, peterS% kobe <kobe@physik.uni-bonn.de> wrote:o  F > I have not managed to correctly setup a dcps-queue for the Tektronix7 > Phaser740.  Is there any hint about a working setup ?R  4 Is there any hint about what problem you are having?  C Have you read the Phaser section in the Release Notes and/or Systemc Manager's Guide?   Paul   -- m  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringi   Hewlett-Packard Companyl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:53:58 GMTA' From: mrtravel <mrtravel@sbcglobal.net>c5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationi- Message-ID: <3CF5BE75.AFB5DF6C@sbcglobal.net>u  G Noted.. Obviously since the source of the other message was a remailer.t :) and this post incident.   JF Mezei wrote:b > N > for the record, I did not send the message which started this thread. Please* > do not feed the troll and don't respond.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:06:07 +1000-. From: Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important InformationS* Message-ID: <3CF6079F.46700B4@bigpond.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   . > MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT HOMOSEXUALS DO. >   6 Pray tell dear heart,  What has this to do with s.s.s?   >eF > One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106E > partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in ae > lifetime.f  D Jesus you yanks are slow, 8 in a lifetime!!  I had more than that at CHICON V back in Sept 1991.   : (sorry Janet you weren't the only one that week end :-(  )   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:45:25 -0400i! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>,5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationn' Message-ID: <3CF62CF5.10595B85@vcu.edu>t  9 you have my sympathies...  you may want to check for kleza somewhere...???.   Jim    JF Mezei wrote:  > N > for the record, I did not send the message which started this thread. Please* > do not feed the troll and don't respond.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 14:42:58 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>e5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information06 Message-ID: <20020530144258.25879.qmail@gacracker.org>  7 On Thu, 30 May 2002, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> wrote:M: >you have my sympathies...  you may want to check for klez >somewhere...???  K It's just some nasty troll using anonymous remailers to try and damage JF's I reputation. If you check the headers you'll see there is a big disclaimer1 in them pointing that out.     Doc. -- m6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:27:56 GMT 3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)n  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L. Message-ID: <0s6J8.9$xB2.54@news-srv1.fmr.com>   Hi Sue,   ? Thanks for the article - but isn't the DS20L Linux/Unix *only*?e  ! If so, why the posting in c.o.v.?     g In article <cp6J8.21$oT3.618596@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:rD >      HP Introduces Powerful, High-density Server and Supercomputer; >      More Than 1,000 New AlphaServer Systems Already Sold-& >      PALO ALTO, Calif., May 28, 2002 >- >-K >--------------------------------------------------------------------------q >mL >      HP (NYSE:HPQ) today introduced the HP AlphaServer DS20L server and HPH >AlphaServer SC20 supercomputer, which deliver to customers in fields asF >diverse as entertainment to defense the power of a supercomputer in a* >space-saving, rack-mounted configuration. > H >      The systems further strengthen HP's position as the leader in theH >high-performance technical computing marketplace. According to industryM >research group International Data Corp., the combined market share of HP andaF >Compaq represented 41.5 percent of the $5.06 billion high-performanceI >computing market.(1) More than 1,000 of the HP AlphaServer DS20L serversA: >have already been sold to customers throughout the world. >KL >      "In high-end film production, quality is key and projects live or dieF >by the clock and our computer-generated feature film 'Ice Age' was noK >exception. HP's AlphaServer systems helped us increase quality and shortencD >the design cycle," said Carl Ludwig, vice president of research andL >development, Blue Sky Studios. "With the HP AlphaServer DS20L we can expectJ >even more power in a single rack, deliver the high-quality rendering that2 >made 'Ice Age' so unique, and do it even faster." > D >      The HP AlphaServer DS20L server, based on the 1U high-densityI >computing format, is 1  inches high, 19 inches wide and 20 inches deep. L >Each system contains two 64-bit Alpha processors with up to 2 GB of memory.J >As many as 40 DS20L servers with 80 Alpha processors can be combined in a1 >single 6.5-foot-high rack-mounted configuration.r >cH >      The HP AlphaServer SC20 is a scalable, single-image supercomputerK >based on DS20L building blocks. The SC20, which is available with HP Tru64hK >UNIX, can combine up to 128 DS20L units via a high-speed interconnect and , >deliver up to 426 gigaflops of performance. >3L >      "The new HP AlphaServer DS20L doubles the per rack performance of theM >nearest competitor," said Troy Deel, lead engineer, Zeta Associates, FederalhI >Program. "The ability to pack this much power into a small space will bea- >very appealing to our government customers."e > H >      HP, the industry leader in clustering technology, also offers theM >AlphaServer DS20L in HP Tru64 UNIX and Linux clustered configurations with at  >broad variety of interconnects. >hM >      "To help us increase quality and shorten design cycles, we've combinedhJ >dozens of AlphaServer DS series units in racks to create a very powerful,E >easy-to-manage system that works as one," said Mark Hill, manager ofsK >mid-range systems, Corning Inc. "The new HP AlphaServer DS20L gives us thebC >opportunity to pack even more power into a single rack and delivert >high-quality results faster." >-K >      The new HP AlphaServer DS20L systems, rated at 132 gigaflops of peak B >performance in a single rack, have produced the highest sustainedF >performance per rack (a rating of 724 per processor) for high-densityK >servers as measured by the industry-standard SPECfp_2000 benchmark.(2) TheiL >DS20L also produced outstanding results in the SPECint2000, SPECfp_rate2000 >and Linpack benchmarks. >SE >      "The introduction of these high-density HP AlphaServer systems F >reaffirms our commitment to meeting the milestones we outlined to ourH >customers in our AlphaServer product roadmap," said Rich Marcello, viceM >president and general manager, HP Alpha Systems Division. "These AlphaServerbH >systems will be particularly significant for customers in areas such asF >government security, scientific research and automotive and aerospaceJ >engineering, which all need increasingly higher levels of performance but" >have space and cost constraints." >iK >      "The announcement of the HP AlphaServer DS20L is a strong indicationuE >of the company's ongoing commitment to the HPTC community and to thedK >AlphaServer roadmap," said Debra Goldfarb, group vice president, Worldwide- >Systems and Servers, IDC. >:H >      "We see this product family enhancing HP's ability to support theJ >broad range of technical computing requirements from the department up toM >terascale workloads. The DS20L further strengthens HP's overall portfolio ofrL >products, enabling the company to maintain a leadership position within the) >high-performance technical marketplace."c > K >      HP also plans to introduce a high-end HP AlphaServer family based on9L >new Alpha EV7 processor technology later this year. The company has alreadyK >begun previewing early versions of these systems with select customers andn >software partners.  >eK >      Pricing for the HP AlphaServer DS20L system, complete with two AlphamG >processors, 512 MB of memory and 18.2 GB of disk storage, starts at anIJ >estimated U.S. street price of less than $18,000. The HP AlphaServer SC20G >supercomputer with a base system of eight Alpha processors and 4 GB of-M >memory is expected to begin shipping in August with an estimated U.S. street  >price starting at $290,000.(3). >pL >      Additional information on the new HP AlphaServer systems is available, >at http://www.hp.com/products/alphasystems. >  >      About HP  > K >      HP is a leading global provider of products, technologies, solutions J >and services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span ITK >infrastructure, personal computing and access devices, global services anddK >imaging and printing. HP merged with Compaq Computer Corp. on May 3, 2002.SJ >The merged company had combined revenue of approximately $81.7 billion inH >fiscal 2001 and operations in more than 160 countries. More information, >about HP is available at http://www.hp.com. >: >iL >      (1) IDC, Worldwide High Performance Technical Computing Census, 2001. > M >      (2) The SPEC benchmark is designed to provide a comparative measure ofsL >compute-intensive performance across a range of hardware, using source code( >developed from real world applications. >," >      (3) Actual prices may vary. >. >  >u >yK >--------------------------------------------------------------------------o >m8 >      UNIX is a registered trademark of the Open Group. >o >  >rK >--------------------------------------------------------------------------d >nI >      This news release contains forward-looking statements that involverK >risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than statementsoG >of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-lookingaI >statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions include the possibility-F >that the market for the sale of certain products and services may notM >develop as expected; that development of these products and services may notOL >proceed as planned; and other risks that are described from time to time inK >HP's Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limited L >to HP's annual report on Form 10-K, as amended on January 30, 2002, for theK >fiscal year ended October 31, 2001, HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q formM >the quarter ended January 31, 2002 (as filed with the SEC on March 12, 2002)nG >and subsequently filed reports. If any of these risks or uncertaintieslH >materializes or any of these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's resultsG >could differ materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HP J >assumes no obligation and does not intend to update these forward-looking >statements. >. >n >        newsroomd >  >n" >                   press releases >o >  >                   press kits >w >e# >                   feature stories, >c >o >                   hp ads >n >e$ >                   hp-compaq merger >c >l >t >t >t >t >o >d >t >  >  >begin 666 tl_corner_10.gifn> >M1TE&.#EA"@`4`( !`/_______R'Y! $```$`+ `````*`!0```(6A ^AF+KF >2(HQNTM NUKS[#X;B2)9:`0`[ >` >end >d >begin 666 tr_corner_10.gif > >M1TE&.#EA"@`4`( !`/_______R'Y! $```$`+ `````*`!0```(7C($)QKK< >3$(1RGF<#MCO[#X;B2)9F6 ``.P`` >` >end >i >begin 666 a_6699cc.gif > >M1TE&.#EA"0`(`( ``/___V:9S"'Y! $`````+ `````)``@```(/A!%QF[K6 >+4)N4OLC2DZ<``#L` >` >end >  >begin 666 bl_corner_10.gif > >M1TE&.#EA"@`4`( !`/_______R'Y! $```$`+ `````*`!0```(5C(^IR^T/ >1HYP.-,L`5CIWKGU'2!X%`#L` >` >end >c >begin 666 br_corner_10.gif > >M1TE&.#EA"@`4`( !`/_______R'Y! $```$`+ `````*`!0```(5C(^IR^T/ >1HYST@'87R&IKCVRB)8H%`#L` >` >end >n Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"k "Lose the MAPS"l   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 05:48:11 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: RE: RF74 HDA formatting.u* Message-ID: <ad4eer$fa7$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  k In article <D1772475427AD411AB770000F80659F00ACFAA@DGNT4>, John Welsh <johnW@digitalexpress.com.au> writes:r  B :	My conclusion is that they are Factory Formatted using a special@ :	rig or program and if the HDA dies then the entire RFxx has to2 :	be replaced ( ie: HDA and Logic Board as a set ) :,( :>> On Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:43 PM  :>> Stuart Fuller wrote: :cJ :>> I'm sorry, but I don't have specific experience with the RF series of J :>> drives.  However, it's my observation that those machines that supportG :>> the RF (DSSI) series of drives have a console that understands the pK :>> SET HOST command, which is used to connect the console terminal to the vK :>> drive. Once connected to the drive, there may be a format command that e :>> you can run. :tK :>> Or, if this is not the system disk, then using the SET HOST/DUP commandr :>>eL :>> (see the help, as you'll need more than just that) might accomplish the  :>> same thing.b :c  :> On Tue, 28 May 2002 11:07:59  :> John Welsh wrote: :h( :> I have a dead RF74 with a faulty HDA. :> mD :> I also have a good RZ74 and the HDA part # is the same as for the :> RF74. :> eC :> Is there any way to reformat the RZ HDA to RF format structure ?n    G   The RZ74 uses 520-byte blocks, RF74 uses 512 byte blocks -- you won'to-   get anywhere with this particular HDA swap.u  K   I know of no formatting tool available that can effectively correct this cI   sector size difference -- the RF spindle disk assemblies were scrapped  H   when the block errors exceeded the capabilities of the disk bad block J   replacement mechanisms, and no RF-series formatter was available.  (The F   theory is/was that folks normally only used the formatter when they G   should really be swapping the media for a replacement, and the use ofaG   the formatter merely breifly postponed the inevitable drive failure.)>G   AFAIK, these assemblies were factory formatted, and only the factory  =   had the equipment and the hardware necessary for this task.c  H   The DUP DIRECT task will tell you what diagnostics and what tools are H   available in the DSSI disk ISE, you've already found ERASE and such.  H   (You won't find a formatter out there, nor does the MDM suite include !   a formatter for the RF series.)w    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:16:26 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Sequent dead - is the same in store for VMS because HP refuses to market it propPI Message-ID: <KCpJ8.147730$t8_.41063@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u   May 30, 2002  ' Sequent Deal Serves Hard Lesson for IBMj   By WILLIAM M. BULKELEY) Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNALo  K Last week when International Business Machines Corp. began a round of aboutcJ 1,000 layoffs at server operations around the country, some 250 workers in9 Beaverton, Ore., were among those getting layoff notices.   L The action marked a quiet but ignominious end-point for IBM's acquisition ofA Beaverton-based Sequent Computer Corp., for $810 million in 1999.h  C While IBM executives say Big Blue benefited from acquiring advancedhL technology and access to markets where it had been weak, analysts and formerE Sequent employees say it is hard to spot much payback to IBM from itst investment.o  L Last month, IBM quietly sent out "end-of-life" notices to companies that ownF Sequent computers, informing them that it won't be selling the SequentI servers after this year and will stop providing maintenance on them afteraI 2007. Sun Microsystems Inc. says it already has won new customers under a K competitive marketing plan called "Project Blue-Away," which is designed to L capture former Sequent customers who are angry with IBM's abandonment of the line.e  H Gary Helmig, an analyst with SoundView Technology Group, says executivesH inside IBM look at Sequent "as an example of how acquisitions don't work out."y  I IBM chairman Louis Gerstner, who stepped down as chief executive in MarcheG after nine years turning around and running IBM, made just four sizableuK acquisitions during his tenure. Recently he has played down acquisitions as F a cornerstone of corporate strategy. Although IBM declined to make himA available to comment on Sequent, when asked about the benefits of-H acquisitions earlier this year, he said in an interview: "Almost without5 exception, all the great companies grow organically."t  I Most analysts rate Mr. Gerstner's acquisitions as a mixed bag. The first,BH Lotus Development Corp., a Cambridge, Mass., software company, remains aI significant part of IBM's software group, but most analysts wonder if IBMeI got much return on its $3.52 billion purchase price. "He overpaid, and ateI the end of the day, they're really in a struggle against Microsoft," says- Don Young, of UBS Warburg.  F Tivoli Systems Corp., a maker of systems management software for largeH computers, also was pricey. After initial fast growth tailed off and theE unit reported losses in recent years, it is turning around again, IBMSG software executives say. Last year's $1 billion acquisition of databaseoG maker Informix Corp. has helped propel IBM ahead of Oracle Corp. in theeK crucial database software business. "That was probably very good," says Mr.t Young.  G IBM doesn't break out financial results of acquisitions separately. But < Sequent appears to be IBM's biggest failure in acquisitions.  F Dan Olds, president of Gabriel Consulting Group, Portland, Ore., and aL former manager with both Sequent and IBM, says that "IBM didn't get anythingK out of it. They lost several thousand employees. They dropped the product."2  K When IBM bought Sequent, the 2,400-employee company was a technology leaderkH in linking multiple Intel Corp. chips together to create large computersH that ran specialized programs for companies that used the Unix operatingK system, such as Boeing Co. and Virgin Atlantic Airways. But with 1998 salesMI of $784.2 million and a net loss of $52.5 million, it lacked the size andrH resources to compete with Sun and Hewlett-Packard Co. in the Unix serverK market. At the same time, its costs were too high for the high-volume IntelA server market.  I In 1999, IBM had problems of its own with an aged and high-priced line ofsI servers, particularly for its version of Unix known as AIX. It also facedrE huge losses in personal computers and declining sales in its cash-cowrJ mainframe line. Robert Stephenson, who headed the server group at IBM, sawI acquiring Sequent as the best route to make IBM competitive in the market > for large Unix servers where Sun was gobbling up market share.  K But shortly after IBM completed its acquisition in September 1999, the thentJ 61-year-old Mr. Stephenson retired. Samuel J. Palmisano, already marked asJ Mr. Gerstner's likely heir apparent, was given the job of running servers.  L Since then, IBM has made a strong turnaround. Its mainframes reversed courseK and grew sales last year. In Unix, it developed new servers using IBM's ownaL Power 4 microprocessor, which outperform all competitors in benchmark tests.H Its Intel servers are gaining market share. But Sequent played almost no part.S  J Sequent veterans say that Mr. Palmisano quickly made it clear he wanted toE simplify IBM's multipronged server strategy. Scott Gibson, a PortlandSJ venture capitalist and Sequent co-founder, says the acquisition was doomed8 because "the guy who sponsored the acquisition retired."      URL for this article:B http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1022709326361785360.djm,00.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:15:45 +0200t. From: "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> Subject: Shadow sets efficiencyr5 Message-ID: <3cf5df5e$0$6963$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>r               Hello,  I     We are replacing the old storageworks disks of one of our clusters byh
 new universalcE disks. This means we'll have to copy about 1 TB net of data. The dataA storage is entirelysL on shadow sets. What is the most efficient way (elapsed time optimisation) :  D 1) initialize the new shadow sets and copy the data directly to them   or  I 2) copy the data on normal disks and re-mount them as shadow sets (with al shadow copy) after ?  I Also, when initializing a new shadow set, is there a way to do it withoutr# having a shadow copy taking place ?s   Thanks in advance,   Marc Van Dyck.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:50:03 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencyl) Message-ID: <3CF5E7BB.CBC9B065@127.0.0.1>h   Marc Van Dyck wrote:K >     We are replacing the old storageworks disks of one of our clusters byn > new universalAG > disks. This means we'll have to copy about 1 TB net of data. The dataw > storage is entirely N > on shadow sets. What is the most efficient way (elapsed time optimisation) : > F > 1) initialize the new shadow sets and copy the data directly to them >  > or > K > 2) copy the data on normal disks and re-mount them as shadow sets (with an > shadow copy) after ? > K > Also, when initializing a new shadow set, is there a way to do it without % > having a shadow copy taking place ?L  - As gleaned from the recent tech update forum:t  : 1. Create a single member shadow 'set' and copy your data.F 2. Do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to the member drive which will join the shadow set.F 3. Mound for the merge. This *should* largely just be read/compare andG move to the next block. This is what will speed up the formation of ther shadow set.T  C In doing the work, I strongly suggest you use the DISK$volume_label C logicals to refer to each drive. Therefore if you have a DSAn: or aeF $n$DKCx00 or whatever, you'll be independent of the 'physical' naming. Now's your chance to do this.,   HTH.   -- g( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:24:14 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency , Message-ID: <3CF5EFBE.72B4829D@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:< > 1. Create a single member shadow 'set' and copy your data.H > 2. Do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to the member drive which will join the shadow > set.  K However, if the shadowset consists of multiple drives, is this still faster M than just creating the shadow set (empty), and then copying the data to it in,K a single operation where all 3 or more drives are essentially written to ath the same time ?H   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:14:19 +0200 . From: "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencyo5 Message-ID: <3cf5ed17$0$6968$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>s  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagea# news:3CF5E7BB.CBC9B065@127.0.0.1...s > Marc Van Dyck wrote:J > >     We are replacing the old storageworks disks of one of our clusters by > > new universal I > > disks. This means we'll have to copy about 1 TB net of data. The data  > > storage is entirely @ > > on shadow sets. What is the most efficient way (elapsed time optimisation) :e > > H > > 1) initialize the new shadow sets and copy the data directly to them > >u > > or > >eK > > 2) copy the data on normal disks and re-mount them as shadow sets (witha ay > > shadow copy) after ? > >oE > > Also, when initializing a new shadow set, is there a way to do itt withouto' > > having a shadow copy taking place ?  >e/ > As gleaned from the recent tech update forum:a >n< > 1. Create a single member shadow 'set' and copy your data.H > 2. Do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to the member drive which will join the shadow > set.H > 3. Mound for the merge. This *should* largely just be read/compare andI > move to the next block. This is what will speed up the formation of theo
 > shadow set.t >   J I'm sorry, but... When you add a new member to a shadow set, the operationJ that takes place is a shadow copy, not a shadow merge... And when a shadowE copy is done, the writing to the new member takes place with no priore comparison,e+ as far as I know. Or did I miss something ?p  E > In doing the work, I strongly suggest you use the DISK$volume_labelmE > logicals to refer to each drive. Therefore if you have a DSAn: or aeH > $n$DKCx00 or whatever, you'll be independent of the 'physical' naming. > Now's your chance to do this.s >a > HTH. >  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comH   Marc.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:34:18 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencyr( Message-ID: <3CF5F21A.C310FC5@127.0.0.1>   JF Mezei wrote:a >  > Nic Clews wrote:> > > 1. Create a single member shadow 'set' and copy your data.J > > 2. Do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to the member drive which will join the shadow > > set. > M > However, if the shadowset consists of multiple drives, is this still fasterwO > than just creating the shadow set (empty), and then copying the data to it ingM > a single operation where all 3 or more drives are essentially written to ata > the same time ?   ? My understanding is that a merge or copy operation consists of:u  # READ - COMPARE - WRITE IF NECESSARYp  G Doing the physical backup means that most times just the READ - COMPARE-H is done, no need for the write. I'll stand to be corrected however, this is my belief right now.e  E With multiple members, yup I think you're right, the margins start to-C close in, because the writes do happen simultaneously, but physicalrH backups are extremely fast. I'd be inclined to say "it depends". Try it, let us know!   -- .( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:37:05 +0100i( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencyf) Message-ID: <3CF5F2C1.EC724AD9@127.0.0.1>v   Marc Van Dyck wrote: >   > > > 1. Create a single member shadow 'set' and copy your data.J > > 2. Do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to the member drive which will join the shadow > > set.J > > 3. Mound for the merge. This *should* largely just be read/compare andK > > move to the next block. This is what will speed up the formation of theb > > shadow set.  > >e > L > I'm sorry, but... When you add a new member to a shadow set, the operationL > that takes place is a shadow copy, not a shadow merge... And when a shadowG > copy is done, the writing to the new member takes place with no priori
 > comparison,r- > as far as I know. Or did I miss something ?c  @ See my reply to JF, but this is what I'm led to believe. I'm notG entirely sure there is (unless using minimerge) that merging or copyingn is a different operation.   : Is there a shadowing internals book about? [Open question]   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:06:49 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>A Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?; Message-ID: <01KIBY9Y2PQQ984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d  H > > This usage persisted until version 4.0 rolled out the modern logical > > name structure.3 > >  > > That's a long time ago now.  > F > That is my recollection too. Particularly useful for sending VMSmailG > to user FRED if FRED was a group or system logical pointing at FRED's1 > SYS$LOGIN. > H > A brief test showed that MAIL doesn't honour that workaround any more.   Is there some confusion here?b  B If user FRED does SET FORWARD, then sending mail to FRED will get F forwarded, but sending mail to _FRED won't.  In this example, FRED is I just a normal user name, not a logical.  (Of course, one can use logical 	7 names for mail aliases, but that is a different topic.)   I This definitely still works.  I don't think it is documented officially, M though.5   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:26:39 -0500:C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>  Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?H Message-ID: <craig.berry-E4FA97.10254630052002@news.directvinternet.com>  = In article <343f30ae.0205290751.1d97e99d@posting.google.com>,s0  SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:  	 Regardingx   $ define foo foo $ show logical foo  I >  I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about this whole matter. t   That seems likely.    . > Nevertheless, I have made comments which are > interspersed below.>  E ... but your comments suggest you aren't in the agreeing mood yet :-) A I understand that you would prefer to leave the current behavior t? unchanged.  I even accept that the status quo may be the least tG unnattractive alternative (though that depends on technical details of fE the implementation I don't have access to).  But I maintain that the s= recursion is an unintended side effect and isn't quite right.e  > > Re "10 identical translations": It tells them that iterativeF > translation occurs a maximum of 10 times. This way you can find that+ > out without digging through the manuals. u  A All it tells you is that the SHOW LOGICAL implementation does 10 sH iterations.  The OpenVMS Users' Manual guarantees 9 iterations and says H it varies by facility, so for all we know the queue manager might do 13 A and the image activator 11; how SHOW LOGICAL behaves provides no  B information about any other facility than SHOW LOGICAL.  Perhaps, H despite the statement in the documentation that it varies, 10 really is F the magic number everywhere, but you can't deduce that from what SHOW 
 LOGICAL does.    > Logical namesc@ > are pervasive on VMS. Fixing this might cause a subtle bug for) > everything else in VMS, so why bother? u  A Um, I was the first to point out that there would very likely be oH difficulties and risks involved in changing the current behavior.  That 7 in no way implies that the current behavior is correct.e   > Also, you have to check notyH > only if the equivalence name is the same as the original logical name,F > but you also have to check whether the resulting equivalence name isB > also a logical name in another table. More unnecessary overhead.  C I don't see any reason to look in other tables since the recursion DC already shows that it never moves beyond the table where the first -A successful translation occurs.  However, I don't have the source  G listings (and like Patrick I'm not a MACRO-head) so I'm far from being m9 in a position to prescribe exactly what the fix would be.-   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 02 19:49:36 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)- Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?) Message-ID: <6SRpD8Q0PGlC@elias.decus.ch>h  w In article <01KIBY9Y2PQQ984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:sI >> > This usage persisted until version 4.0 rolled out the modern logicala >> > name structure. >> > r  >> > That's a long time ago now. >> MG >> That is my recollection too. Particularly useful for sending VMSmailIH >> to user FRED if FRED was a group or system logical pointing at FRED's
 >> SYS$LOGIN.r >> sI >> A brief test showed that MAIL doesn't honour that workaround any more.  >  > Is there some confusion here?n >r  3 Obviously. I just tried it again on my home system:t   $ def fred  $1$dka0:[fred] $ mail  
 MAIL> send To:     fred6 %MAIL-E-USERSPEC, invalid user specification ':[FRED]'  
 MAIL> send
 To:     _fredh Subj:   testH Enter your message below. Press CTRL/Z when complete, or CTRL/C to quit: test     which works. > K > This definitely still works.  I don't think it is documented officially, t	 > though.f   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 01:59:25 -0700 From: wingwong@witty.com (wing)i7 Subject: Socket connected but could not recieve packet.i= Message-ID: <873e96d6.0205300059.164ad829@posting.google.com>    Hi,t  > I am working in a project and use TCP socket for inter-process communication.  E If the server is not running, the client would re-try by itself until 9 the server is up and accept the client socket connection.s  C I am facing a problem.  If the server is not running and the clientiF retries on the listening port continuously for a while, say 20 min, itB is not able to read data from the server listening socket even the- connection resume after the server re-starts.o  > If the client is restarted, it could connect to the server and receives data normally.a  A The following is the extracted code segment for the reconnection.o  2 bool coonectServer(std::string& address, int port) {s       bool connected=false;  !    int tcpipBufferSize  = 128000;t*    int tcpipBufferSize_ = tcpipBufferSize;
    int fd_=0;a     ?    // Convert the address(string) and port(unsigned short) intou    // structure sockaddr_ind    a    struct sockaddr_in addr;s%    bzero((char*)&addr, sizeof(addr));g    addr.sin_family=AF_INET;r5    if (!inet_aton(address.c_str(), &addr.sin_addr)) {         continue;    }    addr.sin_port=htons(port);r    l    for (; connected==false; )o    {-      // Creating a socket for each connectione5      if ((fd_=::socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0))<0) {r        continue;      }      f&      // Set the socket to non-blocking      int arg=1; /      if (ioctl(fd_, FIONBIO, (char *)&arg)<0) {n        close();e        continue;      } $    l#      // Set SO_RCVBUF and SO_SNDBUFn=      if (tcpipBufferSize!=-1 && ::setsockopt(fd_, SOL_SOCKET,e# SO_RCVBUF, (char*)&tcpipBufferSize, ,                                              sizeof(tcpipBufferSize))<0) {a        close();a        continue;      }=      if (tcpipBufferSize!=-1 && ::setsockopt(fd_, SOL_SOCKET,.A SO_SNDBUF, (char*)&tcpipBufferSize, sizeof(tcpipBufferSize))<0) {,        close();n        continue;      }        // call socket connect D      if (::connect(fd_, (struct sockaddr *)&addr, sizeof(addr))<0) {6        if (errno!=EINPROGRESS && errno!=EWOULDBLOCK) {5          close(); // deallocate the socket descriptorl          continue;        }-        connected = true; // exit the for loopz
      } else { 3        // Connection is made immediately, possible?a        return true;i      }      }// end for }end methodM    Thanks in advance for any ideas,   Wing   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 08:03:06 -0700 From: aharris@mmm.com (ann h)e Subject: Re: TAPESYS= Message-ID: <f41c3e24.0205300703.180d029c@posting.google.com>e  b aharris@mmm.com (ann h) wrote in message news:<f41c3e24.0205291201.2b125f20@posting.google.com>... > OVMS 6.2, TAPESYS 5.2.7 G > i inherited a normally excelent running system, HOWEVER ... yesterdaynH > the CLEANUP job hosed and i had to delete the entry. Now, I can't findH > the proper code to get the job restarted correctly. It did not restart
 > last night.p >  > Here is what i found ...C >   tapmgrrq.exe spawns tapemgrutxeq calls tapemgrut_midnit submits  > cleanup submits eject_tapest > A > How do I make sure that the tapmgrrq spawns and things continuea > normally?s2 > I *think* that tapmgrutxeq runs around midnight. > 
 > thanks. annt    F Well, seems tapesys just needed an extra overnight to reset itself andC things appear fine now. i had called tapesys, but my client had not A renewed support late last year. and then early this year the mainc7 support person for tapesys was laid off (unexpectedly).e( so all is well til the next disaster. :)   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 11:28 CDTa' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)o# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2s- Message-ID: <30MAY200211283840@gerg.tamu.edu>i  , bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes...8 }but that's going along w/the crowd, and I don't believeF }in that ... because when the crowd runs over the cliff, you are going }with them ... 3  @ And when the crowd spends their money, you are not there either.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 06:17:26 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: Urgent!!!!!!!!-Process Management* Message-ID: <ad4g5m$fmv$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  > In article <17ce5e0c.0205292118.4616d51e@posting.google.com>, * charithdesilva@yahoo.com (Charith) writes:  B :Could some one plese let me now how process management is done in :openVMS operating system.  B   The following has some pointers and some background information:  >     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/student_research.html  @   In particular, the above will recommend the Internals and DataC   Structures Manual (IDSM), and the IDSM is the best spot to learn h?   learn about process management and process scheduling on the     OpenVMS operating system.   @   If you have a specific application, environment or requirementB   in mind and were not really intending to ask a generic question,@   please provide details.  With this, we can (hopefully) provideA   you with a more specific answer or more specific suggestion(s).o  C   Please also consider the use of fewer exclamation points, due to  A   the impending world-wide shortage of exclamation points -- thisnA   shortage has arisen in recent times due to the overuse of this tB   character within the torrents of spam.  Various governments are A   engaged in treaty negotiations to reduce the over-harvesting ofdD   the spammers, as where once there were vast shoals of exclamation C   points, now only a few of these characters survive in the wild...h  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:09:26 +0200 2 From: "Robert Boers" <robert.boers@softresint.com># Subject: Re: VAX emulators  & FX!32 * Message-ID: <3cf65cc8$1@news.deckpoint.ch>  H It is possible to optimize emulator code flow; we have actually done it.H Hoever, it takes a lot of work (understatement) to get it both right and fast.e> The result can be seen by logging into this field test system:: a 44 VUPs, 512 MB VAX 3198 emulator on a dual AMD MP 1900+6 (which is normally part of a CHARON-VAX SCSI cluster).  9 Use telnet://charon.sri-gva.ch with account name 3100DEMO>  0 I'll post next week the VUP meter utility there.   Robert Boers  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFKFBAA.tom@kednos.com...eA > One of the freebies that Compaq provide for NT running on alphasB > was FX!32, which was both an X86 image translator and optimizer.A > The translator part was provide to the Linux Alpha community at C > no charge and made possible the running of Windows images in that-@ > environment.  Now the interesting part was the optimizer whichD > synthesized a flow graph and performed optimizations on this tree. >eB > It would be interesting to do the same for a VAX emulator, whichB > will otherwise never be particularly fast.  Does anyone know who> > owns FX!32?  I believe it may have been developed by digital > semiconductor, but not sure. >  > >-----Original Message-----r0 > >From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]) > >Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:58 PM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ > >Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)i > >p > >a > >Oh, another note. > >i: > >I think one of the 3-part disk defraggers had something7 > >called PERFORMANCE_METER.COM or something like that.s* > >No, it was CALCULATE_VUPS.COM, I think. > > 9 > >Anyway, a command file that gave a rather accurate VUPe > >value of your system. > >  > >Anyone remember that ?g > >a@ > >It would be nice to test that with the emulators on different > >host systems. > >C > >Jan-Erik Sderholm. > >' > >Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: > >> > >> Kevin Handy wrote:m > >> > > >> >D > >> > Don't expect to get Alpha speed out of the emulator, but on aF > >> > 1Ghz intel machine you will see somewhere around the speed of a > >> > microVAX 3100.a > >> > > >> > >> 3100/20 or 3100/98 ?o > >>> > >> There is a huge difference (1 to 20+) in perf between the > >> different models. > >>+ > >> It's like saying "the speed of an PC".  > >> > >> Jan-Erik Sderholm. > >m > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.f= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).,C > >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002e > >e > ---v( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:05:39 +0200 3 From: "Vanmeulebrouk" <frits.vanmeulebrouk@dsm.com>0( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)G Message-ID: <1022749531.23443@intraconnect2.srvfarm1-eur.dsm-group.com>F  3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3CF53207.F238201B@aaa.com...e > Kevin Handy wrote: > >p > >rA > > Don't expect to get Alpha speed out of the emulator, but on ajC > > 1Ghz intel machine you will see somewhere around the speed of a  > > microVAX 3100. > >s >l > 3100/20 or 3100/98 ? >i; > There is a huge difference (1 to 20+) in perf between theg > different models.n >eD FWIW I've been using a Fortran benchmark for an in-house applicationC over the last (about 20) years. I build Simh using WinXP and Visualf" Studio 6 on a P4 1.7 GHz. Results:   Computer        Time Elapsed  ----------------------------- P4 1.7GHz XP             0.32  Dell P3/450 NT           1.1 Alpha 3000/600   7.1 Alpha 2100 4/200  7.3r Compaq P2/166 NT         7.3 Alpha 3000/400   7.5 Compaq P2/166 NT         7.8 HP 700/750               8.4 HP 700/720    11 VAX 3100/96               12 VAX 4000-100              18 HP 9000/845               27 DECstation 3100           35 486/50MHz                 38 VAX 3100/80               41 HP 9000/835               47 IBM 6000/530              46 Data General AVIION       51 DECstation 3100           53" Simh (P4 1.7GHz XP)       55  <--- VAX 6000/410              70 HP 9000/835               71 UNISYS WS6000            130 UNISYS B6000/55          151 VAXstation 3100          169 UNISYS B6000/50          230 VAX 11/785               266 UNISYS B6000/10          431 microVAX II              540 microVAX 2000            730  I This result for Simh was a bit disappointing as I got the impression thatoE the installation of VMS (6.2) was quite fast and I expected somethingn better.    Frits.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:32:36 +0000 (UTC)A" From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (brian)( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)2 Message-ID: <ad5d64$hhu$1@wilson.uits.indiana.edu>  G In article <1022749531.23443@intraconnect2.srvfarm1-eur.dsm-group.com>, 6 	"Vanmeulebrouk" <frits.vanmeulebrouk@dsm.com> writes: > 5 > "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messagen# > news:3CF53207.F238201B@aaa.com...b >> Kevin Handy wrote:o >> > >> >B >> > Don't expect to get Alpha speed out of the emulator, but on aD >> > 1Ghz intel machine you will see somewhere around the speed of a >> > microVAX 3100.i >> > >> >> 3100/20 or 3100/98 ?o >>< >> There is a huge difference (1 to 20+) in perf between the >> different models. >>F > FWIW I've been using a Fortran benchmark for an in-house applicationE > over the last (about 20) years. I build Simh using WinXP and Visualo$ > Studio 6 on a P4 1.7 GHz. Results: >   J Any chance you could make that benchmark available?  I'd be curious to see, how it performs on my P4 1.7GHz under linux.       > Computer        Time Elapsed  > ------------------------------ > P4 1.7GHz XP             0.32s > Dell P3/450 NT           1.1 > Alpha 3000/600   7.1 > Alpha 2100 4/200  7.3  > Compaq P2/166 NT         7.3 > Alpha 3000/400   7.5 > Compaq P2/166 NT         7.8 > HP 700/750               8.4 > HP 700/720    11 > VAX 3100/96               12 > VAX 4000-100              18 > HP 9000/845               27 > DECstation 3100           35 > 486/50MHz                 38 > VAX 3100/80               41 > HP 9000/835               47 > IBM 6000/530              46 > Data General AVIION       51 > DECstation 3100           53$ > Simh (P4 1.7GHz XP)       55  <--- > VAX 6000/410              70 > HP 9000/835               71 > UNISYS WS6000            130 > UNISYS B6000/55          151 > VAXstation 3100          169 > UNISYS B6000/50          230 > VAX 11/785               266 > UNISYS B6000/10          431 > microVAX II              540 > microVAX 2000            730 > K > This result for Simh was a bit disappointing as I got the impression thatuG > the installation of VMS (6.2) was quite fast and I expected somethings	 > better.o >o  J Well, disk I/O is probably substantially better on the emulator than on a  real 3900 :)  I Still, you're getting performance roughly halfway between a VAX 6000/410  I (7 vups) and a VAX 3100/80 (12 vups)...so maybe 9.5 vups which isn't too h bad overall.   Briana    n > Frits. >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 09:04:09 -0700( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0205300804.21169bde@posting.google.com>  M Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote in message news:<3CF531A7.1080105@srv.net>...U > Baby Peanut wrote:J > > A few things to add.  SIMH VAX is very new.  The first offical releaseG > > was done about a month ago.  The development is done in the open sovB > > the pre-releases were visble for some time.  It is still beingJ > > developed.  Currently it emulates only a MicroVAX III, I believe.  TheH > > CPU type says MicroVAX 3800/3900.  Hopefully DELQA emulation will beA > > added.  The source code to SIMH is under a BSD-style ("mostlynG > > unresticted") license and is portable to Windows, various UNIX-like C > > platforms including Linux and to VMS which means you can have a H > > VMS/VAX virtual machine on a Alpha or VAX running VMS.  SIMH is slowJ > > and there are bugs which keep you from using GCC optimization options. > : > Actually, if you have a moderately recent release of GCC9 > (RedHat 7.1 seems to work correctly, for example), simhhB > seems to compile/run OK with optimizations turned on (-O2).  The@ > bugs with the optimizations was always in setjmp/longjmp code,: > which has apparently been rewritten to be easier on gcc.A > The -O2 (or -O3 if you feel adventurous) does improve the speedt" > a bit, but it doesn't double it.  D Although I haven't had much time to examine the code the discussionsE about it claimed that setjmp()/longjmp() did not have adequate use ofyD the "volatile" keyword to protect varibles from being clobbered whenE the code was optimized.  Maybe this has been fixed.  It doesn't soundj like that much of an issue.e  ? > Don't expect to get Alpha speed out of the emulator, but on aQA > 1Ghz intel machine you will see somewhere around the speed of ad > microVAX 3100. > E > > I don't have VMS for it yet, but maybe in a month or two I will. rI > > Here's SIMH booting NetBSD/vax on an IA32 platform.  The device names  > > should be familiar.l > >  > A > VMS seems to run on both simh and ts10 quite well in the latest ; > versions. Have installed/used C, BASIC, and PASCAL in theN@ > latest versions of both simh and ts10.  NetBSD was much easier> > to get booting to a user prompt than VMS, by several months. >  > > freebsd$ ./vax nbsd.ini  > >  > > VAX simulator V2.9-9 > >d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:04:46 +0200s3 From: "Vanmeulebrouk" <frits.vanmeulebrouk@dsm.com>e( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)H Message-ID: <1022774677.839525@intraconnect2.srvfarm1-eur.dsm-group.com>  / "brian" <bdwheele@indiana.edu> wrote in messaget, news:ad5d64$hhu$1@wilson.uits.indiana.edu...  L > Any chance you could make that benchmark available?  I'd be curious to see. > how it performs on my P4 1.7GHz under linux.  , If the email address is correct: no problem.  H > > This result for Simh was a bit disappointing as I got the impression thatI > > the installation of VMS (6.2) was quite fast and I expected somethingn > > better.f > >s >eK > Well, disk I/O is probably substantially better on the emulator than on aa > real 3900 :) >tJ > Still, you're getting performance roughly halfway between a VAX 6000/410J > (7 vups) and a VAX 3100/80 (12 vups)...so maybe 9.5 vups which isn't too > bad overall. >t   I don't complain.o? Now if  Simh would support networking e.g. like VMware does ...h   Frits.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:07:01 GMTa1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>e# Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?n8 Message-ID: <9RmJ8.2984$fT5.849706@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CF5AFF3.43758D0E@Free.fr...i > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:t > >0I > > And it might be worth asking the SRI (Charon) folks if such a tool is K > > feasible. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If it is, IMHO the investment inh theaJ > > tool might be modest indeed when compared to the revenue HPQ will lose asL > > VAX users continue to migrate to AIX and Solaris. Or the evil Windoze... >rJ > You all will be interested to learn that, among all (still) users of VMS that IH > talked to, who do not intend to migrate to anything for the previously	 mentioned I > reasons, nearly all of them are VAX users. Is it because they are doing F > intensive real time processing and, for this reason, did not see any	 advantage  > to move to Alpha? Probably.V > H > So, I would be very interested to know, among these famous 470 000 DEC systemsRB > still alive worldwide, the % of VAX/VMS, Alpha/VMS and others... >  > Any way to get these numbers?0  K Wish there was. ;-} The latest number for VMS-based systems is 411,000, and&K with IBM's recent successes in migrating the base (deja vu all over again),tL let's round it off to 400,000. Of this number, perhaps half are VAX/VMS, the% other half of course being Alpha/VMS.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:19:54 -0400O2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com># Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration? ) Message-ID: <3CF65F3A.5030109@oracle.com>d  ; similar to moving from vax to alpha, most properly behavingcB user-mode programs should compile and link on Alpha and ultimately? on iVMS.  There will be some changes required (perhaps based on,@ the languages used), but I would expect that it wouldn't be that? hard.  VESTing (aka DECmigrate) would be the absoluate last wayS that I'd try to do it.   Didier Morandi wrote:n  O > I went to see one of the most important French DEC Customers today. They have1C > about a thousand of VAX (I say VAX, not VAX and Alpha) worldwide.e > R > When I asked my correspondent about migration, he said: "migration? Where to? WeR > are perfectly happy with our VAX and where would you migrate us to? Only our VAXB > and our home made software can do what we need to do with them". > R > I said: "And if you need more spare parts or another system for whatever reason?@ > The VAX product line is dead". He said: "we buy from brokers". > O > I said "What about the Itanium in a couple of years? It will run VMS too." HerI > said: "we'll see in a few years, when HP has released migration tools".e >  > Q > We know that CPQ has ordered a "DECmigrate from Alpha to Itanium" version (see  Q > http://www.softresint.com/news/Bin_Trans.htm). Is it time for HP to "order" tooi% > a "DECmigrate from VAX to Itanium"?  >  > D. >      -- o> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:48:04 GMTP2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>! Subject: Re: VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2u+ Message-ID: <3CF6479E.74DD88C8@digital.com>w  ? IIRC QIX (and probably TANK as well) ran in compatability mode.    sorry 'bout that.w   Mike     Mr Beermat wrote:f > F > Came to run the multiuser game Tank on my hobbyist OpenVMS7.2 systemH > (on a uVAX3100/m10e) ; it failed giving the error messgae "invalid I/OA > channel". The same executable works fine running under VMS 5.2.a > F > Suggestions please on how to get this game and QIX (which fails in a" > similar fashion) working on 7.2? >  > ta > greg   -- 2E ---------------------------------------------------------------------)E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.d? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*iF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------D -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:29:29 +0100p( From: Mr Beermat <beermat.geo@yahoo.com>! Subject: Re: VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2c8 Message-ID: <n5ocfucvlprrjen672qdmthck41hqok8l4@4ax.com>  E alas, OpenVMS6.2 exhibits the same intolerance of the good old games.n' Have to load 5.5-2 onto this 3100 then!t  F Unless someone can tell me of other good games (especially multiplayer things like Tank) for 7.2e  D I have Snake & one I wrote myself (Snake_Byte) which work OK on 7.2, but they're single player...  @ >IIRC QIX (and probably TANK as well) ran in compatability mode. >sorry 'bout that.: sorry to be dense. What is (or was) 'compatability mode' ?   greg   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:00:35 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>./ Subject: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)) ; Message-ID: <01KIBXRL3MFM984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  ) > No, it was CALCULATE_VUPS.COM, I think.l > 8 > Anyway, a command file that gave a rather accurate VUP > value of your system.0  < I still have that somewhere (gleaned from this NG.)  Ah yes:  5    http://www.astro.multivax.de:8000/phillip/vup.com/s  H (Just for laughs/tears, I tested this with Netscape and IE.  Works fine I with the former.  The latter wants to download it.  I think Elliott has  oD the same problem (or, rather, the IE users do) with his teco.doc or G whatever.  On might debate whether documentation (on a VMS box) should +@ be called .doc, but I will of course not consider serving a DCL # procedure under anything but .com.)   G I first tried it on a VAXstation 3100 M76, and, yes, it did really say t8 7.6.  The results weren't so accurate for other systems.  I When this was originally posted here (more than 5 years ago), there were hE some comments from Those Who Know that it is NOT the actual VUP code.   H (As an aside, note that, while the VAX 11/780 was the reference machine F for both and had both SPEC and VUP of one, the two are different, not @ only in that different systems might, for whatever reason, give F different results for the two benchmarks, but also because VUP really I measures hardware speed while SPEC can change on the same hardware since r& it includes the compiler as well etc.)   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:23:16 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s3 Subject: Re: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))n; Message-ID: <01KICBGBN4V896WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   7 >    http://www.astro.multivax.de:8000/phillip/vup.com/t  	 Should bel  4    http://www.astro.multivax.de:8000/phillip/vup.com  
 of course.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:43:28 GMT_1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>A, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins7 Message-ID: <AfoJ8.2801$06.366293@nasal.pacific.net.au>o  2 Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:9 > In article <P83I8.2493$06.328911@nasal.pacific.net.au>,f5 > CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au> writes:  > |>  H > |>                    The 2 and 1 cent ones only went away a few yearsB > |>      back though, but prices still marked as 2.99 or 3.98 :-)K > |>      What they do is that at the end of the additions they round up if K > |>      the sum ends in 8 or 9, like for 12.98 you pay 13.00, and 6 and 7e7 > |>      down. All even out in the long term, I guess.   $ > All even out for who?? The store??  < 	For everyone, I guess. If I go shopping let's say 10 times,< 	chances are I will be rounded down 5 times, and 5 times up.3 	So in the end one didn't lose, as the theory goes..7 	Anyway, the people here accepted this, at the end of as= 	supermarket shopping, at the checkout the sums automaticallyV 	adjusted. No one complains.; 	( Of course amounts ending in 1 or 2 cents will be rounded3< 	down, and 3 & 4 up as well. We have 5 cent coins still... )    C > Over here, if a place decides to forego the odd penny they always H > round down.  Charging more than the bill, even just a penny, is likelyH > to cause bad feelings and may cost you a customer. (It's the principleE > of the thng, not the penny.) And, it may in fact be illegal.  I eat F > breakfast in a diner that does this frequently.  My guess is the oddG > dollar or two a day they give up is worth less than the time it takesz > to count out the pennies.o   						Cheers,  Csaba  I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------aE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehog E    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.nI    ----------------------------------------------------------------------d;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:d   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:12:48 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> , Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins; Message-ID: <01KICB10I5WE96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>8  J > > |>                    The 2 and 1 cent ones only went away a few yearsD > > |>      back though, but prices still marked as 2.99 or 3.98 :-)M > > |>      What they do is that at the end of the additions they round up if M > > |>      the sum ends in 8 or 9, like for 12.98 you pay 13.00, and 6 and 7 9 > > |>      down. All even out in the long term, I guess.4 > & > > All even out for who?? The store?? > > > 	For everyone, I guess. If I go shopping let's say 10 times,  H No different than pricing gasoline in units of a tenth of a cent.  This G is of course rounded to the nearest cent.  The only difference is that iG as far as I know, this is usually done in the States only for gasoline.g> In countries where the smallest currency unit is no longer in 9 circulation, it is potentially possible for all products.    ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 16:43:28 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)u, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins, Message-ID: <ad5krh$2069$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ; In article <01KICB10I5WE96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>,r<  Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:M |> > > |>                    The 2 and 1 cent ones only went away a few years0G |> > > |>      back though, but prices still marked as 2.99 or 3.98 :-)pP |> > > |>      What they do is that at the end of the additions they round up ifP |> > > |>      the sum ends in 8 or 9, like for 12.98 you pay 13.00, and 6 and 7< |> > > |>      down. All even out in the long term, I guess. |> > f) |> > > All even out for who?? The store??W |> >  A |> > 	For everyone, I guess. If I go shopping let's say 10 times,t |> sK |> No different than pricing gasoline in units of a tenth of a cent.  This 1- |> is of course rounded to the nearest cent. k  F If you mean that when the pupm says $1.499 for gas I'm actually payingH $1.50 you are most assuredly wrong.  First, no one buys gas by quantity.D Even the pumps in Germany 20 years ago sold gas based on how many DMC coins you stuck in the slot and not by selecting how any Litres you  wanted./   I >                                            The only difference is that PJ |> as far as I know, this is usually done in the States only for gasoline.  > Mills (tenths of a cent) are an official measure, but as there< has never in my lifetime been a coin for them and that level> of granaularity has never been needed in consumer transactions= most people ignore it.  The only possible reason for it being ; used with gasoline has to be the governement involvement in  the pricing.  A |> In countries where the smallest currency unit is no longer in S< |> circulation, it is potentially possible for all products.  = Technically, the smallest currency unit in the US is probably1; the mill.  I don't believe a one mill coin has ever been inr circualtion however.   bill   -- 2J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:43:28 GMTa* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins5 Message-ID: <300520021337548469%paul.anderson@hp.com>   < In article <ad5krh$2069$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  A > If you mean that when the pupm says $1.499 for gas I'm actuallys, > paying $1.50 you are most assuredly wrong.  F If you buy one gallon, your price is rounded up to $1.50 since there'sG no mil coin or any other way of charging your $1.499.  Buy ten gallons,h and you are charged $14.99.y  D > Mills (tenths of a cent) are an official measure, but as there has= > never in my lifetime been a coin for them and that level ofiB > granaularity has never been needed in consumer transactions most > people ignore it.o   Sort of like the penny today.    Paul   -- V  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringn   Hewlett-Packard Companyo   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.298 ************************