1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 31 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 299       Contents: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80> Another Half Dozen SKHPCs at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) Re: Caculator within DCL Re: Caculator within DCL Re: Caculator within DCL0 Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?+ Re: CONTROL T not working on Alpha (fixed!)  Re: Curious error message  Re: Curious error message  Re: Curious error message  Re: Curious error message  Re: Curious error message  Re: Curious error message  DHV11 questions . Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframe2 Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframe2 Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframe2 Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframe HELP and utility routines  Re: HELP and utility routines  Re: HELP and utility routines * Re: IDE controller in Alphaserver 4100???? Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading Re: No new Alpha sales Non interactive EDIT/FDL Re: Non interactive EDIT/FDL Re: Non interactive EDIT/FDL Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!   Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week..., OT: JF's reputation (Was: Please Read - ...)0 Re: OT: JF's reputation (Was: Please Read - ...)0 Re: OT: JF's reputation (Was: Please Read - ...)F OT: Remailers (was Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!))" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins), Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Press Release DS20L  Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?  Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug? < smtp.config and Blocking mail(waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2* Re: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))# Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins + [Q] 100 Mb networking options for Alpha 200 / Re: [Q] 100 Mb networking options for Alpha 200   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 13:33:06 -06009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) ' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 3 Message-ID: <XWyJnw1MbLkD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <3CF6308A.F217BB55@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes: M > I have not had much luck finding any specific instructions on adding drives K > to empty slots on the shelves of my EMA12000 SANs with HSG80 controllers. O > Everything is dual-redundant and I want to add a dozen new drives to the pair N > of SANs.  The current system is live in a production envirnoment and I would@ > really prefer to not have to schedule a downtime, if possible. > R > Are these simple 'plug-n-play'?  Just shove in the drive and either fire-up SWCCL > or use the CLI to give them names/IDs etc so the VMS servers can find them > later? > O > If I need to dismount the SAN before the hardware work, I can break apart the L > shadowset members that are across the two SANs and keep from shutting downR > production.  I will be running on only one shadowset, but can probably live with > that for an afternoon. > E > My hope is that I can simply insert the drives and be done with it!   H Well, you have to push the little button and wait for the blinkies, justJ like on the HSD/HSJ/HSZ, but yes, you can add on the fly. We do it all theJ time here. Then configure the drive, disable all connections, and make the connections you need.   B         They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little?         temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- A         Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. 1759   1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:59:21 GMT ' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> ' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 ) Message-ID: <3CF68499.29E01F6C@uiowa.edu>    Bob Kaplow wrote:  > U > In article <3CF6308A.F217BB55@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes: O > > I have not had much luck finding any specific instructions on adding drives M > > to empty slots on the shelves of my EMA12000 SANs with HSG80 controllers. Q > > Everything is dual-redundant and I want to add a dozen new drives to the pair P > > of SANs.  The current system is live in a production envirnoment and I wouldB > > really prefer to not have to schedule a downtime, if possible. > > T > > Are these simple 'plug-n-play'?  Just shove in the drive and either fire-up SWCCN > > or use the CLI to give them names/IDs etc so the VMS servers can find them
 > > later? > > Q > > If I need to dismount the SAN before the hardware work, I can break apart the N > > shadowset members that are across the two SANs and keep from shutting downT > > production.  I will be running on only one shadowset, but can probably live with > > that for an afternoon. > > G > > My hope is that I can simply insert the drives and be done with it!  > J > Well, you have to push the little button and wait for the blinkies, justL > like on the HSD/HSJ/HSZ, but yes, you can add on the fly. We do it all theL > time here. Then configure the drive, disable all connections, and make the > connections you need.    	Sorry, but I am dense today.   G 	So, I have to push the button and wait for the blinkies (I get that!). J BUT, what happens to the other drives on that bus that are current, activeJ members of shadow sets mounted on a couple Alpha OpenVMS systems?  Do theyM "disappear" as far as VMS is concerned?  Mount Verify Timeouts, Corruption of  data, forced Shadow Copys, etc.    rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:22:17 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 ' Message-ID: <3CF689F9.FE2A60FF@aaa.com>   1 As far as I know, the pending I/O's (if any) just 6 hangs and waits for the SCSI bus to return live again.  8 How could one advice this as *the* method to plug/unplug< disks drives if there was *any* risk for corruption or other major problems ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Rick Dyson wrote: & >         Sorry, but I am dense today. > P >         So, I have to push the button and wait for the blinkies (I get that!).L > BUT, what happens to the other drives on that bus that are current, activeL > members of shadow sets mounted on a couple Alpha OpenVMS systems?  Do theyO > "disappear" as far as VMS is concerned?  Mount Verify Timeouts, Corruption of ! > data, forced Shadow Copys, etc.  >  > rick   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 13:29:55 -0700$ From: JKoska@bender.com (John Koska)' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 = Message-ID: <aa5ec19e.0205301229.5ddcf17e@posting.google.com>   7 Consider reviewing the online technical documents at...   L http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/ma8kema12k/documentation.html#ug  5 I believe you will find everything you need in there.   C But to answer you question here, I understand any StorageWorks disk E drive with purple color identification on it is hot-plugable.  So, in F theory one can simply insert the disk drives, then from HSG-80 console= prompt do RUN CONFIG to have the HSG-80 find the disk drives.   . However, I would use procedures outlined in...c http://wwss1pro.compaq.com/support/reference_library/viewdocument.asp?source=OD011115_CW01.xml&dt=3   F , which are much more safe in my opinion for a production environment.   :) jck
 John Koska  X Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in message news:<3CF6308A.F217BB55@uiowa.edu>...M > I have not had much luck finding any specific instructions on adding drives K > to empty slots on the shelves of my EMA12000 SANs with HSG80 controllers. O > Everything is dual-redundant and I want to add a dozen new drives to the pair N > of SANs.  The current system is live in a production envirnoment and I would@ > really prefer to not have to schedule a downtime, if possible. > R > Are these simple 'plug-n-play'?  Just shove in the drive and either fire-up SWCCL > or use the CLI to give them names/IDs etc so the VMS servers can find them > later? > O > If I need to dismount the SAN before the hardware work, I can break apart the L > shadowset members that are across the two SANs and keep from shutting downR > production.  I will be running on only one shadowset, but can probably live with > that for an afternoon. > E > My hope is that I can simply insert the drives and be done with it!  > 	 > Thanks!  > Rick   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:05:53 GMT ' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> ' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 ) Message-ID: <3CF69431.71ABAEB2@uiowa.edu>    John Koska wrote:  > 9 > Consider reviewing the online technical documents at...  > N > http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/ma8kema12k/documentation.html#ug > 7 > I believe you will find everything you need in there.  > E > But to answer you question here, I understand any StorageWorks disk G > drive with purple color identification on it is hot-plugable.  So, in H > theory one can simply insert the disk drives, then from HSG-80 console? > prompt do RUN CONFIG to have the HSG-80 find the disk drives.  > 0 > However, I would use procedures outlined in...e > http://wwss1pro.compaq.com/support/reference_library/viewdocument.asp?source=OD011115_CW01.xml&dt=3  > H > , which are much more safe in my opinion for a production environment. >  > :) jck > John Koska  J Thanks!  That second doc starts out saying what I said, that the rules forK hotswapping were left out of the documentation.  It is dated just this past  Feb '02. :)    rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:43:25 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 4 Message-ID: <1020530183040.359A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On Thu, 30 May 2002, Rick Dyson wrote:  M > I have not had much luck finding any specific instructions on adding drives K > to empty slots on the shelves of my EMA12000 SANs with HSG80 controllers. O > Everything is dual-redundant and I want to add a dozen new drives to the pair N > of SANs.  The current system is live in a production envirnoment and I would@ > really prefer to not have to schedule a downtime, if possible. > R > Are these simple 'plug-n-play'?  Just shove in the drive and either fire-up SWCCL > or use the CLI to give them names/IDs etc so the VMS servers can find them > later? > O > If I need to dismount the SAN before the hardware work, I can break apart the L > shadowset members that are across the two SANs and keep from shutting downR > production.  I will be running on only one shadowset, but can probably live with > that for an afternoon. > E > My hope is that I can simply insert the drives and be done with it!  > 	 > Thanks!  > Rick  B I had the same question about adding disks to an HSZ80 a few weeks) ago, and someone pointed me a document at   c http://wwss1pro.compaq.com/support/reference_library/viewdocument.asp?source=OD011115_CW01.xml&dt=3    (That probably wrapped.)  7 The document applies to HSG80's as well as HSZ/HSJ80's.   @ It mostly refers to replacing drives, but installing or removing drives is just a subset.  ? There are 2 methods.  Hot-swap (just plug it in) usually should = work.  You have to make sure the console is idle, and that no > RAID set rebuilding, failover, etc. is in progress.  Warm-swap= involves quiescing a SCSI bus, waiting for activity to cease, A then plugging in the new drive.  I think this is safer, but other ? drives on the bus might go into mount-verification for about 20  to 30 seconds.  @ We haven't actually tried it on a production system yet, but hot/ plugging caused no problems on a test system.     A (The first sentence of the doc at the URL says that the rules for 4 Device Host Swap were left out of the current docs.)  > P.S.  Thanks again, whoever the helpful person was who pointed me at this.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 15:51:34 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 3 Message-ID: <4oxgkwcYc8Rf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <3CF68499.29E01F6C@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:  > Bob Kaplow wrote:  >>  V >> In article <3CF6308A.F217BB55@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:P >> > I have not had much luck finding any specific instructions on adding drivesN >> > to empty slots on the shelves of my EMA12000 SANs with HSG80 controllers.R >> > Everything is dual-redundant and I want to add a dozen new drives to the pairQ >> > of SANs.  The current system is live in a production envirnoment and I would C >> > really prefer to not have to schedule a downtime, if possible.  >> >U >> > Are these simple 'plug-n-play'?  Just shove in the drive and either fire-up SWCC O >> > or use the CLI to give them names/IDs etc so the VMS servers can find them  >> > later?  >> >R >> > If I need to dismount the SAN before the hardware work, I can break apart theO >> > shadowset members that are across the two SANs and keep from shutting down U >> > production.  I will be running on only one shadowset, but can probably live with  >> > that for an afternoon.  >> >H >> > My hope is that I can simply insert the drives and be done with it! >>  K >> Well, you have to push the little button and wait for the blinkies, just M >> like on the HSD/HSJ/HSZ, but yes, you can add on the fly. We do it all the M >> time here. Then configure the drive, disable all connections, and make the  >> connections you need. >  > 	Sorry, but I am dense today.  > I > 	So, I have to push the button and wait for the blinkies (I get that!). L > BUT, what happens to the other drives on that bus that are current, activeL > members of shadow sets mounted on a couple Alpha OpenVMS systems?  Do theyO > "disappear" as far as VMS is concerned?  Mount Verify Timeouts, Corruption of ! > data, forced Shadow Copys, etc.  >   G 	I've done both.  I've quiesced the bus and I haven't.  As you surmise, > 	the drives go into Mount Verify (they can't post the writes, C 	because the bus is "busy").  You you will also note that mvtimeout  	is by default:    NODE> mcr sysgen show mvtimeH Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  Dynamic H --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  ------- N MVTIMEOUT                    3600       3600         1      64000 Seconds    D    = 	3600 seconds , i.e. 1 hour.  The bus comes back a lot sooner ! 	than that and writes are posted.    	Corruption of data?  ? 	Look, your palms are sweaty thinking about it, that is good.  K? 	Wouldn't want someone with a cavilier attitude running things.S  C 	But it will go well, low I/O time is a good time, you are planning  	correctly.e   				Robl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:49:32 GMTo1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>oG Subject: Another Half Dozen SKHPCs at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.orgh, Message-ID: <00yJ8.72550$cQ3.2626@sccrnsc01>  G Folks, Ken Farmer has posted some recent ravings of the SKHPC sort. PeroK usual they are in PDF format. Enjoy, and be sure to support www.openvms.org  and www.tru64.orgH   cheers,t   Terry C. Shannon+ Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows HPC.% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.f terryshannon@attbi.com http://www.openvms.org   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 12:59:10 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)i; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)83 Message-ID: <6lfnh$XZA8Dc@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  m In article <20020530172836.28939.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:0; > On Thu, 30 May 2002, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:aH >>Not sure, but it looks to me as if segfault.net may be running an open >>relay.: >>Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages? >  > Segfault is a remailer.i > K > I really hate when these stupid a**holes decide to use remailers for thisi$ > sort of ignorant abusive stuff. :( >   > 	First Amendment, blah blah blah.  Wickedness is protected and? 	promoted in many cases and tools like remailers certainly help E 	wicked people hide under the cover of anonymity.  Wouldn't want yourrE 	friends and neighbors know what you are up to.  Right to privacy andtG 	all that mindless reasoning that goes with it.  (somehow isn't in our t? 	constitution or bill of rights, but hey ... who cares, right?)h  F 	Interestingly, earlier this week (last week?) the Wall Street JournalA 	ran a column about "how do you determine what is evil?"  or someRC 	such.  I didn't bother reading it all , the author wouldn't agree e> 	with me on the correct source for determining the answer :-).   			           Robt  N "It is considered awkward to use seriously such words as good and evil. But ifM  we are to be deprived of those concepts, what will be left?  We will decline 0  to the status of animals."     -- Solzhenitsyn    ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 18:52:42 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>v; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)t6 Message-ID: <20020530185242.30953.qmail@gacracker.org>  B On 30 May 2002, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:: >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGPFBAA.tom@kednos.com>,' > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: J >|> Not sure, but it looks to me as if segfault.net may be running an open
 >|> relay. >dA >Of course it's na open relay.  It's a public anonymous remailer.  >That's what they do.c >n< >|> Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages? >- >I certainly hope so.-  I Alas not. The messages are being routed to Usenet via a mail2news gateway># and from there to the mailing list.S  I Segfault is one of the remailers most likely to be used to cause problems2D because it allows specification of a fully forged from line. I don'tI particularly like that, but it's Jochen's remailer and it's his choice ifMD that's how he wants to run it. If anyone wants to complain his emailG address is in the Comments header. If you are complaining I'd recommend I pointing out the inability to killfile these messages as one of your mainn	 concerns.s     Doc. -- i6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:01:24 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>a; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)s2 Message-ID: <8nT2PCUBx3ZeFJ4nf+1SuSAgh0=V@4ax.com>  D On 30 May 2002 12:59:10 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:  n >In article <20020530172836.28939.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:< >> On Thu, 30 May 2002, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:I >>>Not sure, but it looks to me as if segfault.net may be running an opens	 >>>relay.r; >>>Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages?  >> a >> Segfault is a remailer. >> eL >> I really hate when these stupid a**holes decide to use remailers for this% >> sort of ignorant abusive stuff. :(r >> i >u? >	First Amendment, blah blah blah.  Wickedness is protected andu@ >	promoted in many cases and tools like remailers certainly helpF >	wicked people hide under the cover of anonymity.  Wouldn't want yourF >	friends and neighbors know what you are up to.  Right to privacy andH >	all that mindless reasoning that goes with it.  (somehow isn't in our @ >	constitution or bill of rights, but hey ... who cares, right?)  3     Rob, try re-reading the 4th and 9th Amendments:s   Amendment IV  F The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,  F and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be @ violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, A supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing thev= place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.-   Amendment IX  E The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be R= construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.D  D Yes, there is a right to privacy, and just because a right is not in0 the Constitution does not mean it's not a right.   David R. Beattyl  G >	Interestingly, earlier this week (last week?) the Wall Street JournalrB >	ran a column about "how do you determine what is evil?"  or someD >	such.  I didn't bother reading it all , the author wouldn't agree ? >	with me on the correct source for determining the answer :-).h >  >			           Rob > O >"It is considered awkward to use seriously such words as good and evil. But iflN > we are to be deprived of those concepts, what will be left?  We will decline1 > to the status of animals."     -- Solzhenitsyn t   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 14:50:03 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)>3 Message-ID: <RQugZUf9y7iY@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  j In article <8nT2PCUBx3ZeFJ4nf+1SuSAgh0=V@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes:F > On 30 May 2002 12:59:10 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: > o >>In article <20020530172836.28939.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:!= >>> On Thu, 30 May 2002, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:rJ >>>>Not sure, but it looks to me as if segfault.net may be running an open
 >>>>relay.< >>>>Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages? >>>  >>> Segfault is a remailer.c >>> M >>> I really hate when these stupid a**holes decide to use remailers for this & >>> sort of ignorant abusive stuff. :( >>>  >>@ >>	First Amendment, blah blah blah.  Wickedness is protected andA >>	promoted in many cases and tools like remailers certainly helpOG >>	wicked people hide under the cover of anonymity.  Wouldn't want yourtG >>	friends and neighbors know what you are up to.  Right to privacy and I >>	all that mindless reasoning that goes with it.  (somehow isn't in our  A >>	constitution or bill of rights, but hey ... who cares, right?)c > 5 >     Rob, try re-reading the 4th and 9th Amendments:e >  > Amendment IV > H > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, > H > and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be B > violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, C > supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing theG? > place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.0 >  > Amendment IX > G > The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be  ? > construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.e > F > Yes, there is a right to privacy, and just because a right is not in2 > the Constitution does not mean it's not a right. >   > 	There isn't a "Right to Privacy".  There are as you point out@ 	amendments to protect against "unreasonable" search and seizure? 	and that has ebbed and flowed over the years.  Watch courts be(A 	very broad in interpretting "reasonable" from a law enforcement pC 	standpoint post-9/11.  In other words, "unreasonable" will become e 	more sane.i  1 	As an example of just how muddy this subject is:n  M In some states, courts have ruled that a student's locker is school property,eL so the school can search it. But in other states, school officials must haveL "reasonable suspicion" that you are hiding something illegal before they canK search your locker. Your local ACLU can fill you in on your state laws. ButIO here's a word to the wise: don't keep anything in your locker that you wouldn'te want other people to see.e    B 	So the American Civil Liberal* Union pecks and pecks and attemptsC 	to stretch interpretation under the guise of "privacy."  Of course : 	they lost a ton of leverage post-9/11 and post-Columbine.   				Robn   * Liberties?  Give me a break.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:01:26 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) , Message-ID: <3CF68514.B72A3C68@videotron.ca>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote: K > I really hate when these stupid a**holes decide to use remailers for thisM$ > sort of ignorant abusive stuff. :(    K The person responsible for this remailer is "out of town" (how convenient).e  N I have sent him a nasty complaint, and also suggested that if he wishes to runI an anonymous posting service, his software should strip out the From: andoL Reply_to: fields to ensure anonymity and that nobody can impersonate anyone.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 20:32:05 GMTw* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) @ Message-ID: <9%vJ8.76244$%o.6959753@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:RQugZUf9y7iY@eisner.encompasserve.org...I   ...t  # > There isn't a "Right to Privacy".p  F Just because you say so?  Well, I say there is.  Something need not beH enshrined in the Constitution to be a right:  the Constitution says that explicitly.      There are as you point outA > amendments to protect against "unreasonable" search and seizureR@ > and that has ebbed and flowed over the years.  Watch courts beA > very broad in interpretting "reasonable" from a law enforcementsC > standpoint post-9/11.  In other words, "unreasonable" will become  > more sane.  J 9/11, coupled with the stupidity of the American people, was a God-send toF the Fascists, and they've not lost any time in taking advantage of it.F Fortunately, encryption and off-shore remailers can restore reasonableK levels of privacy to those who desire them.  Unfortunately, this leaves thesL rest of the people (largely, the ignorant) vulnerable to the very governmentF that is supposed to be protecting their rights even if they themselves aren't able to.]   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 15:37:37 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)k; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)-3 Message-ID: <w7u8H9ms8Yko@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  m In article <9%vJ8.76244$%o.6959753@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:A > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:RQugZUf9y7iY@eisner.encompasserve.org...D >  > ...d > $ >> There isn't a "Right to Privacy". >  > Just because you say so?          No.   > Well, I say there is.y  M      You "say", but of course you can't prove it.  As no such "right" exists.i+      If you can prove it, show a reference.w                              Rob   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 20:52:44 GMTl* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)h@ Message-ID: <wiwJ8.78794$Gs.7245329@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:w7u8H9ms8Yko@eisner.encompasserve.org...tH > In article <9%vJ8.76244$%o.6959753@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill& Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:RQugZUf9y7iY@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > >h > > ...a > >a& > >> There isn't a "Right to Privacy". > >t > > Just because you say so? >l
 >      No.  I Proving a negative is notoriously difficult, but since you seem to assertd you can:  do so.   >a > > Well, I say there is.f >rG >      You "say", but of course you can't prove it.  As no such "right"  exists.   K I say I have that right.  And it's one of the very things I'd be willing to K take up a gun to enforce if I couldn't do so otherwise.  Anyone who doesn'ttG like that attitude is encouraged to shove it up his Fascist butt:  yourlJ right to feel 'protected' by Uncle Sam stops at the edge of my right to beI protected *from* Uncle Sam, which is *exactly* what the Bill of Rights is H all about (including its specific reference to other rights beyond those explicitly enumerated)..   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:58:26 -0400.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: Caculator within DCLi, Message-ID: <3CF68460.330152B8@videotron.ca>   Jack Trachtman wrote:h > E > One utility I've always wanted to see in DCL is a simple 4-functionu > floating point calculator    MC DECW$CALC   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 20:23:54 +0000 (UTC)o- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) ! Subject: Re: Caculator within DCL.. Message-ID: <ad61oq$dhh$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org (Jack Trachtman) writes in article <69d784c4.0205300901.14fda67c@posting.google.com> dated 30 May 2002 10:01:47 -0700:D >One utility I've always wanted to see in DCL is a simple 4-functionB >floating point calculator (and now that file sizes are getting soE >large, I'd also like to see an integer calculator that's not limiteds >to the Alpha word size.)l    Or worse yet, the DCL word size.  G >Though this is not a hard programming project in any non-DCL language, B >I was wondering if anyone knows of something that already exists.  G The C utility "calc" has served me well for some time now (VMS creationyJ dates on the source I have is 1991).  It's missing one feature IMHO -- the* ability to take a command line expression.   $ calc 2*2+1  $1=5   Then there's perl.   $ perl -e print(2*2+1) 5w $   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgp> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:26:15 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)V! Subject: Re: Caculator within DCLa0 Message-ID: <3cf6b4da.90686410@news.process.com>  J On Thu, 30 May 2002 20:23:54 +0000 (UTC), lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A.
 Lewis) wrote:?  H >The C utility "calc" has served me well for some time now (VMS creationK >dates on the source I have is 1991).  It's missing one feature IMHO -- thei+ >ability to take a command line expression.s >  >$ calcv >2*2+1 >$1=5  >l >Then there's perl.* >* >$ perl -e print(2*2+1)i >5 >$ >i There's also ICALC:k   http://www.process.com/openvms/b  5 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/icalc.zip    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/o8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:00:09 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.9 Subject: Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?r' Message-ID: <3CF6CE99.22DB193C@fsi.net>o   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > x > In article <58ba0101.0205300230.4ab6fe24@posting.google.com>, andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft) writes: > > Hi,i > > I > > I have 2 separate ethernet networks connected via and OpenVMS system.-I > > The networks run DECnet Phase IV. The neworks are currently connectednJ > > via a VAX acting as a router. I want to be able to control which nodesH > > on network A can see, and communicate with which nodes on network B. > > Is there a way to do this ?s > = > There are DECnet Phase IV controls on each node to do that,o   There are? Care to elucidate?r  9 > or are you saying you don't trust the system managers ?.   How 'bout the (ab)users?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems, http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 02 20:09:40 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: CONTROL T not working on Alpha (fixed!)) Message-ID: <8lCK7hAn90Jb@elias.decus.ch>c   In article <ED06176444B7D511886300D0B70809FD03300C@ecntexchg.boec.city>, "Weiner, Howard (Howie)" <Howiew@ci.portland.or.us> writes:7 > CONTROL T problem solved! Thanks to all for the help. B > I simply moved to a different terminal server and lo and behold,> > CTRL/T has been restored. I didn't go back to try and figure9 > out what the difference was. It works now, so I'm done.l >   A That rings a faint bell. I once inherited a terminal server which(= used TCP/IP rather than LAT and certainly CTRL/O didn't work.tC I don't precisely remember if CTRL/T did or not, but have a feelingl it too was ignored.d  8 Changing the server back to using LAT cured the problem.  < > Hey Peter (Weaver) - that was a pretty cool little command7 > procedure to echo back the input character... thanks.o >  > Howie Weiner > howiew@ci.portland.or.us >  -- y __
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandI   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 21:46:15 GMT4 From: "Jim Strehlow" <JimStrehlowNoSpam@data911.com>" Subject: Re: Curious error message0 Message-ID: <ad66j7$ha5@dispatch.concentric.net>  F I hate to see disk space and memory resources wasted with Easter Eggs. It is unprofessional.nK I hope that someone from the OpenVMS team removes that feature from version  7.3.  K I am a devoted Python fan and I have a sense of humor; but I am not amused.s  6 Micro$oft Easter eggs started a bad programming trend.G Did the problems start with Micro$oft or did other some other major o/sh  or application start that trend?   Jim Strehlow, Alameda, CA, USAH My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinion of my management etc.    / "DXP" <daveparboo@hotmail.com> wrote in message.7 news:819f1cc4.0205300035.5e338859@posting.google.com...O > Greetings... >e& > Have you ever tried the following... > 
 > $ EXIT 2932o >uD > (Although I'm at a loss as to know why anyone would have had to to > this)d >O3 > Anyway, would anyone care to comment on what this & > cryptic/philisophical message means? >  > Many thanks in a dance >o > Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:58:16 -0700eM From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net> " Subject: Re: Curious error message: Message-ID: <3CF6A078.38A4118C@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net>  
 DXP wrote:   > Greetings... >r& > Have you ever tried the following... >h
 > $ EXIT 2932c >'D > (Although I'm at a loss as to know why anyone would have had to to > this)n >t3 > Anyway, would anyone care to comment on what thise& > cryptic/philisophical message means?  F     I'm curious as to which hardware & software version gives anything6 other than, %SYSTEM-F-NOMSG, Message number 00000B74 ?  E     I get this on Alpha/VMS 7.2-1 and VAX/VMS 7.1 systems.  No Easter 
 Eggs, no fun.s       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield0! F20 Automation VMS System Supportt kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comc   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 17:06:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a" Subject: Re: Curious error message3 Message-ID: <JxYaE4szLRUX@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  g In article <ad66j7$ha5@dispatch.concentric.net>, "Jim Strehlow" <JimStrehlowNoSpam@data911.com> writes: H > I hate to see disk space and memory resources wasted with Easter Eggs. > It is unprofessional.mM > I hope that someone from the OpenVMS team removes that feature from version  > 7.3.  ? Without necessarily sharing your sentiments, I have a solution.w  > Upgrade to VAX.  On V7.3 the message is only present on Alpha.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:01:04 GMTb# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>	" Subject: Re: Curious error message- Message-ID: <3CF6CB50.1F8D64DD@earthlink.net>e   "Kenneth H. Fairfield" wrote:o >  > DXP wrote: >  > > Greetings... > >w( > > Have you ever tried the following... > >l > > $ EXIT 2932e > >nF > > (Although I'm at a loss as to know why anyone would have had to to	 > > this)  > >.5 > > Anyway, would anyone care to comment on what this ( > > cryptic/philisophical message means? > H >     I'm curious as to which hardware & software version gives anything8 > other than, %SYSTEM-F-NOMSG, Message number 00000B74 ? > G >     I get this on Alpha/VMS 7.2-1 and VAX/VMS 7.1 systems.  No Easterp > Eggs, no fun.a > 
 >     -Ken  D Ditto, would someone be so kind as to post the message in question.    -- Aaron Sliwinski   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:28:09 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>o" Subject: Re: Curious error message* Message-ID: <3CF6CF11.3000702@qsl.network>   Jim Strehlow wrote: H > I hate to see disk space and memory resources wasted with Easter Eggs. > It is unprofessional.iM > I hope that someone from the OpenVMS team removes that feature from versiond > 7.3. > M > I am a devoted Python fan and I have a sense of humor; but I am not amused.d > 8 > Micro$oft Easter eggs started a bad programming trend.I > Did the problems start with Micro$oft or did other some other major o/ss" > or application start that trend?  ; I don't know or care who started it, but I am guessing thatiG   "Help wombat" in Datatrieve predates any known Microsoft Easter Eggs.i  E In some cases these "Easter Eggs" have reported to have been used in 6H copyright cases.  Apparently the alledged software thieves did not know G about it, so were suprised in court when a hidden key sequence brought cC up a special screen.  Of course that could just be an urban legend.,  > In other cases they confirm a special diagnostic has been run.  ( But sometimes they are just plain silly.   -Johno wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only5   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:15:23 -0500[C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>o" Subject: Re: Curious error messageH Message-ID: <craig.berry-0EF614.21152330052002@news.directvinternet.com>  - In article <3CF6CB50.1F8D64DD@earthlink.net>,?%  ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> wrote:>   > "Kenneth H. Fairfield" wrote:u  J > >     I'm curious as to which hardware & software version gives anything: > > other than, %SYSTEM-F-NOMSG, Message number 00000B74 ? > > I > >     I get this on Alpha/VMS 7.2-1 and VAX/VMS 7.1 systems.  No Eastera > > Eggs, no fun.e > >  > >     -Ken > F > Ditto, would someone be so kind as to post the message in question.   H $ search sys$common:[decc$lib.reference.sys$starlet_c]ssdef.h $_fish/winL /*                                                                           */L /*      X-98    MAS0671         MARK A. STILES          16-MAR-2001          */L /*              ADD SS$_FISH FOR MESSAGE TRANSLATION, OR LACK THEREOF.       */L /*                                                                           */L /*      X-97    ABP             ANU PANT                18-SEP-2000          */ ***************  #define SS$_NOMOREPATHS 2912 #define SS$_NOMORESERVERS 2920L #define SS$_FISH 2928                   /*                                   */L /* NEW SYMBOLS SHOULD BE ADDED IMMEDIATELY BEFORE THIS COMMENT               */L /* ***** NOTE: ROOM FOR 18 MORE MESSAGES IN THIS SECTION *****               */   $ exit 2928a- %SYSTEM-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eelso    + 2932 is the same thing with fatal severity.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 03:10:30 -0000  From: sword7@speakeasy.org Subject: DHV11 questions/ Message-ID: <ufdqd6j79p4r68@corp.supernews.com>a   Hello folks:  D I am working on DHV11 emulation for my TS10/VAX emulator.  I have a A question for you.  I implemented 8 tty lines but OpenVMS detectedmD 16 lines instead on single DHV11 controller.  Does anyone know that 3 number of lines detection during OpenVMS boot time?e  H Also, I implemented DMA transfers into DHV11 emulation.  I noticed that B output is much faster with DMA enabled on OpenVMS after I executedD 'set terminal txa0: /dma'....  Does anyone have experience with that on real DHV11 controller?t  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   -- w, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 20:21:57 GMT - From: Johnathan Lighten <lighten74@yahoo.com>p7 Subject: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframeyA Message-ID: <FRvJ8.6542$RU2.747297947@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>c  F Here's a site that allows users to port their applications on zSeries ? mainframes.  Sign up for a dedicated system to get root access.   9 http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/testdrive/testdnew.htmlo   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:03:37 GMTg3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)s; Subject: Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframeo/ Message-ID: <ZkxJ8.14$xB2.54@news-srv1.fmr.com>i  9 This has no relevance to c.o.v.; please do not post here.    Thanks.   q In article <FRvJ8.6542$RU2.747297947@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, Johnathan Lighten <lighten74@yahoo.com> writes:sG >Here's a site that allows users to port their applications on zSeries  @ >mainframes.  Sign up for a dedicated system to get root access. >Z: >http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/testdrive/testdnew.html Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"y "Lose the MAPS"y   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 02:54:47 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframeoA Message-ID: <XBBJ8.81068$Oa1.7075457@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  @ "Bradford J. Hamilton" <sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com> wrote in message) news:ZkxJ8.14$xB2.54@news-srv1.fmr.com... ; > This has no relevance to c.o.v.; please do not post here.y  K Unfortunately, it *does* have some relevance, thanks to VMS's owner.  But If agree that it's pretty tacky.e   - bill   >s	 > Thanks.  >tC > In article <FRvJ8.6542$RU2.747297947@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,e/ Johnathan Lighten <lighten74@yahoo.com> writes:rH > >Here's a site that allows users to port their applications on zSeriesB > >mainframes.  Sign up for a dedicated system to get root access. > > < > >http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/testdrive/testdnew.html > Bradford J. Hamilton' > braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom (home) ' > sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm (work)@ >n= > "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"n > "Lose the MAPS"s >m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:21:34 -0400r% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> ; Subject: Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframe , Message-ID: <3CF6EC34.EA9A39E8@videotron.ca>   "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:  > ; > This has no relevance to c.o.v.; please do not post here.   L Yes it has relevance. It would be absolutely great if HP were to provide theM same type of service so that anyone could sign up on-line and test drive VMS,- check out its help etc etc.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:57:33 -0400k- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s" Subject: HELP and utility routines, Message-ID: <3CF69238.CB8FDFA6@videotron.ca>  I Am looking into using the LBR$ routines for an application to use modulese stored in a library.  G In my grey wall, I found the manual "System routines, Utility Routines"d (volume 3).e  J It has documenmtation for all sorts of routines such as ACL, CLI, etc etc.  N Is there a reason why those routines are not documented in a HELP topic as areK the SYS$ routines, the RMS routines, the RTL topic which includes LIB$ MHT$  etc ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:25:16 -0500dC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>"& Subject: Re: HELP and utility routinesH Message-ID: <craig.berry-8E4924.16251630052002@news.directvinternet.com>  , In article <3CF69238.CB8FDFA6@videotron.ca>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:y  I > In my grey wall, I found the manual "System routines, Utility Routines" 
 > (volume 3).i > L > It has documenmtation for all sorts of routines such as ACL, CLI, etc etc. > P > Is there a reason why those routines are not documented in a HELP topic as areM > the SYS$ routines, the RMS routines, the RTL topic which includes LIB$ MHT$. > etc ?l  0 They are in HELP, at least in 7.3 they are.  Try   $ HELP CLI_Routines.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:44:49 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r& Subject: Re: HELP and utility routines, Message-ID: <3CF69D48.75EBAC5D@videotron.ca>   "Craig A. Berry" wrote:l2 > They are in HELP, at least in 7.3 they are.  Try >  > $ HELP CLI_Routinesa  1 Thanks. They are not present on VAX-VMS 7.2 Alas.i  L Strange since those routines have been there for ages, you'd think that theyL would have been put into the help system at the same time as the rest of the system/rtl routines.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:28:08 +02001 From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>3 Subject: Re: IDE controller in Alphaserver 4100????o$ Message-ID: <3CF67D48.80009@home.nl>  H The DQ driver does not support just any IDE controller. For instance in H my PWS500au there is a IDE controller, but VMS does not support it, not I even for the CD-Rom. That makes it very unlikely that you can get such a   setup running.  G However there is a SCSI -> IDE converter that I've tested. It will let lD you connect any type of IDE drive to a SCSI UW bus. It is the Acard G AEC-7720UW, you can find it on http://www.acard.com . I'm going to use lB it with a Western Digital 800JB (80GB) drive in my PWS. I did the F initial test with another IDE drive, and the whole thing reacted just H like a SCSI drive. Even the drive type is visible with show device DK.  H The only problem is that the adapter is higher then the drive, and that F means I can only use it on the top drive. On the lower drive it would ( block the connector for the upper drive.  $ rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote:  G >I have and alphaserver 4100, I will need to add an online file storage ( >as cheap as posible to keep it running.M >I would like to know if anyone has any experiencies with PCI IDE controlers.sI >An it has been any good, for dicusions of the DS alphaserver seems that l3 >most of the IDE disk would work with the DQDRIVER.T >  >Thankse >* >Ricardo >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:23:38 -0400m; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>l' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives? " Message-ID: <3cf69826@news.si.com>  K >If Carly doesn't perform as expected, she will eventually get the boot, at I >which point, her replacement may be in a position to reverse some of the- wrong : >decisions made by Carly, at least those still reversable.  ; And maybe Curly wants to be that person.  Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!v --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com4= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventy< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:44:46 -0400A- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingm, Message-ID: <3CF6812D.7A1FFC30@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:iA > But Mark was left in little doubt that we need no more negativehF > surprises. Everyone is watching closely. And someone needs to shutupF > Capellas. I guess he has allies from HP-UX engineering on this front > now.  N 1- Do you feel that Gorham was already aware that customers have received HP'sG messages very negatively ? Or is he learning that now, as he meets with- customers ?0  L 2- Any information on how/why Stallard put the "we want VMS users to migrate to HP-UX" statement ?o  J 3- Any information on when during the merger, the decisicion about VMS wasN made ? (or was none made yet, hence the fuzzy statements of "status quo as per Compaq's policies" ?).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:09:11 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>l Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales $ Message-ID: <3cf6a2d3$1@news.si.com>  6 >Waiting for all vendors to perform the same bm on theL >same day with the same quantity of their own proprietary resource is not an >option - it'll never happen.i  C Sounds like a lot of crap to me!  <just joking! a play on the "bm">o --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comkA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventt< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:03:22 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>R! Subject: Non interactive EDIT/FDLD, Message-ID: <3CF69394.4D98110B@videotron.ca>  K When i create an indexed file interactively, I use EDIT/FDL, specify recordfI size, number of records, key sizes and locations and then let the scriptsfM calculate the proper bucket and file sizes etc etc and generate an approriatet	 FDL file.m  M What i would like to be able to do eventually is to have a program create thesM FDL on behalf of the user (and then create the data file). Is it possible fortN a program to supply the basic parameters and have the EDIT/FDL script generateN the full FDL with all the various calculations it does for file size etc etc ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:06:28 GMT 9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> % Subject: Re: Non interactive EDIT/FDLt/ Message-ID: <3CF69FE8.DABC8042@eps.zko.dec.com>o   JF Mezei wrote:n   >  Is it possible foroP > a program to supply the basic parameters and have the EDIT/FDL script generateP > the full FDL with all the various calculations it does for file size etc etc ?  E Yes, and the basic inputs are very simple, almost embarrasingly so...b< I like to work with 2 FDL files as input to EDIT/FDL/NOINTER  N One, the 'main' input with hard atttributes like key defintions, fill factors.N The other provided with  /ANAL to deliver the tuning params of which there are just 3 !   The command to use would be:  D         $EDIT/FDL/NOINTER/ANAL=my_file.fdl_vital_stats   my_file.fdl  4     Where the .fdl_vital_stats file would look like:  H IDENT "Hein's minimal template for EDIT/FDL/NOINTERACTIVE analyze input"K FILE;                                  CLUSTER_SIZE                      12 / ANALYSIS_OF_KEY 0;  MEAN_DATA_LENGTH        123eE                                            DATA_RECORD_COUNT     1234n    ?     The cluster size would be a happy middle of the road value.r  K     The record count and mean data length can be obtained using ANAL/RMS on0L     a (backup copy of the) data file but why bother getting it all the time?:     Or why bother getting it at all if you can predict it!   hth,
      Hein.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:13:13 GMTJ9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>k% Subject: Re: Non interactive EDIT/FDL / Message-ID: <3CF6A17D.DEAF17A6@eps.zko.dec.com>t   > Is it possible forP > a program to supply the basic parameters and have the EDIT/FDL script generateP > the full FDL with all the various calculations it does for file size etc etc ?  & Yes. Straightforward. Almost too easy.* I'd recommend to use 2 input file for FDL.Q One, with the main fixed attributes to define the keys and fill factors and such.eR The other, through /ANAL=, to provide the all dynamic values EDIT/FDL uses (just 3 !).  The command to use would be:  <       $EDIT/FDL/NOINTER/ANAL=my_file.fdl_vital_stats my_file  4     Where the .fdl_vital_stats file would look like:  H IDENT "Hein's minimal template for EDIT/FDL/NOINTERACTIVE analyze input". FILE;               CLUSTER_SIZE            12/ ANALYSIS_OF_KEY 0;  MEAN_DATA_LENGTH        123s0                     DATA_RECORD_COUNT       1234    ; The cluster size would be a happy middle of the road value. 1 The record count is yours to pick for a new file. ? The mean data length should included an anticipated compressionw: factor and can possible be obtained from a comparable file' or the backup therefrom using ANAL/RMS.-     hth,	     Hein.e   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 16:39:26 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205301539.37621a95@posting.google.com>m  o "Ted Johnston" <tjohnston48@yahoo.c0m> wrote in message news:<IatJ8.29415$wj7.10520433@twister.socal.rr.com>...oI > Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. B >  It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.5 >  Please report problems or inappropriate use to theb3 >  remailer administrator at <jochen@segfault.net>.o* >  http://remailer.segfault.net/mixmaster/  8 were is Larry at?  I thought profanity on this board was filtered ...   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 16:40:31 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205301540.1edfc305@posting.google.com>   v Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message news:<20020530165943.14779.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>...0 > Call the canadian 911 ..... I cant help you !  >  >  >  > Fabio , > --- JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote:8 > > This morning during my first masturbation session of
 > > the day I-5 > > discovered my penis is covered with painful sores  > > full of pus.  What7 > > could this be?  Also my ass hurts really bad and myj > > asshole is > > bleeding.  Please help me! > >  > > Jean-Francois Mezein >  >  > =====e > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - BrazilH > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?2 > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com   5 Larry, why isn't your filter catching this profanity?K   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:51:17 -0600n/ From: "Mike Speegle" <mikespeegle@netscape.net>$( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!5 Message-ID: <ad6e4j$v0a5m$1@ID-130573.news.dfncis.de>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageL7 news:d7791aa1.0205301539.37621a95@posting.google.com...    >I: > were is Larry at?  I thought profanity on this board was > filtered ...  =     SSH is not a moderated newsgroup.  You may be thinking of A sci.space.moderated, but profanity is not, per se, filtered.  ;-)  -- Mike8 ________________________________________________________3 "Colorado Ski Country, USA"   Come often. Ski hard. 8 Spend *lots* of money. Then leave as quickly as you can.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 00:29:44 GMT  From: "Nuggs" <nuggs@nuggs.com>E( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!: Message-ID: <YtzJ8.73738$Ka.5675333@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>  D Here are the Ctrl - F3  results of this scum bag polluting our group   Path:-L news3.calgary.shaw.ca!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!peer1-sjL c1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!194.25.L 134.62!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nautilus.eusc.inter.net!newsfeL ed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2n* ews-x4!mail2news-x3!mail2news-x2!mail2news< Sender: Anonymous Coredump <mixmaster@remailer.segfault.net>G Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.i@  It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.3  Please report problems or inappropriate use to the 1  remailer administrator at <jochen@segfault.net>.1(  http://remailer.segfault.net/mixmaster/J Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,comp.os.vms,sci.space.station,sci.space.shuttle$ Subject: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>hD Message-ID: <3dde6f82087b6b318b7f82347095f842@remailer.segfault.net>, Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:39:57 +0200 (CEST). Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net% Organization: mail2news@nym.alias.net- Lines: 6L Xref: pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net rec.travel.air:30338731 comp.os.vms:301760682 sci.space.station:25122 sci.space.shuttle:30058132F X-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:40:11 MDT (news3.calgary.shaw.ca)    2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message> news:3dde6f82087b6b318b7f82347095f842@remailer.segfault.net...@ > This morning during my first masturbation session of the day IF > discovered my penis is covered with painful sores full of pus.  What@ > could this be?  Also my ass hurts really bad and my asshole is > bleeding.  Please help me! >e > Jean-Francois Mezeir   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 03:01:47 GMTh  From: "Cory" <nospam@nospam.com>( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!9 Message-ID: <vIBJ8.1478$NE3.106795@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>o  C Let us know how things are after your second session; they say thatoL sometimes these things clear up on their own.  Also, make sure you don't sit/ down, or if you do, put a towel underneath you./  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message> news:3dde6f82087b6b318b7f82347095f842@remailer.segfault.net...@ > This morning during my first masturbation session of the day IF > discovered my penis is covered with painful sores full of pus.  What@ > could this be?  Also my ass hurts really bad and my asshole is > bleeding.  Please help me! >u > Jean-Francois Mezeit   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 03:34:57 GMTb From: "Nuggs" <nuggs@nuggs.com>B( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!: Message-ID: <BbCJ8.74837$Ka.5728611@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>  + "Cory" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message 3 news:vIBJ8.1478$NE3.106795@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...oE > Let us know how things are after your second session; they say thatcJ > sometimes these things clear up on their own.  Also, make sure you don't sits1 > down, or if you do, put a towel underneath you.n >y4 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message@ > news:3dde6f82087b6b318b7f82347095f842@remailer.segfault.net...B > > This morning during my first masturbation session of the day IH > > discovered my penis is covered with painful sores full of pus.  WhatB > > could this be?  Also my ass hurts really bad and my asshole is > > bleeding.  Please help me! > >p > > Jean-Francois Mezeim >y >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:33:09 -04003- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...s, Message-ID: <3CF67E75.E17DDB5B@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:F >    As long as I can get a text-only version, I don't care how.  HTML< >    is nice, but sometimes I need to read the FAQ with EDT.  
 Hear ! hear !    I agree.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:47:37 GMT ' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>c) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...-* Message-ID: <3CF66B81.850FECE9@nospam.net>  
 Simon opined:m   >ML > My vote is to place them on a website, with an announcement in comp.os.vms9 > as that way we can choose which format we want to read.  >n  	 Seconded.u   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 00:47:03 GMTS1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...i' Message-ID: <3CF6CB85.16E2F5D4@fsi.net>e   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > [snip]I > >   One content question: any last-minute updates for the next edition?u > 1 > "Is VMS going to be ported to the 8086 ?"   :-)-  F I might revised that to read "Is VMS going to be ported to the 80x86?"G 8086 was a 16-bit processor, VMS was written for a 32-bit CISC platformtG originally, and then moved to 64 bits on RISC. 80386 and later were all. 32-bit machines.   -- 2 David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 00:49:31 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...m& Message-ID: <3CF6CC1C.4E85446@fsi.net>   Jeffrey Chimene wrote: >  > Simon opined:h >  > > N > > My vote is to place them on a website, with an announcement in comp.os.vms; > > as that way we can choose which format we want to read.h > >  >  > Seconded.    Thirded (?)F   > microsoft free by 2003  . Perhaps. Watch this space for an announcement.   -- g David J. DachteraB dba DJE Systems> http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 00:56:58 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...e' Message-ID: <3CF6CDD8.5AD629F7@fsi.net>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:i > G >   I'm putting the finishing work on a massive overhaul to the OpenVMS0E >   FAQ, and as a result of this work can now directly generate text,a! >   Postscript, and HTML formats.7 > F >   The downside of all this work is that the new FAQ is substantiallyG >   larger than previous editions, requiring 1415 blocks versus 887 foroH >   one of the most recent older versions.  The format has also changed.  C Well, that's the good news and the bad news, isn't it? It's alreadyc* rather unwieldy and crashes some browsers.  G >   One content question: any last-minute updates for the next edition?0B >   (I expect to be passing the new FAQ files along to the OpenVMS >   webmaster early next week)  ? Dunno if it qualifies as a "FAQ", but maybe some basic info. onv shadow-sets would be useful.  F >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesF >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundredG >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here D >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/orG >   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternatives 9 >   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)n  G Well, what might be useful would be, as other have suggested (but in myo own words):t  H o A wesbite where we can browse or choose a download format (ala VMS doc	 on-line).d@ o A .ZIP including all of the .html's that can be downloaded andG unpacked on either VMS or other platforms (W/9x, W/NT, W2K, UN*X, etc.)0: o Include the then-current FAQ on the next Freeware CD(s).   Just some ideas...   -- a David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems2 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 02:19:32 GMTn# From: "don" <LakeGator@hotmail.com>t) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week... @ Message-ID: <U4BJ8.180$jU1.179@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CF6CDD8.5AD629F7@fsi.net...a   <snip>  J > o A wesbite where we can browse or choose a download format (ala VMS doc > on-line).4B > o A .ZIP including all of the .html's that can be downloaded andI > unpacked on either VMS or other platforms (W/9x, W/NT, W2K, UN*X, etc.)   C Those of us who volunteer on the system formerly known as DECUServetH currently provide one of the existing HTML versions of the FAQ.  We willH enhance this service to the OpenVMS community by providing access to theJ other formats as soon as they are available.  The URL for the current HTMLJ version is at http://Encompasserve.org/VMS/faq.htm and we will do our best* to use that for the other formats as well.  
 Keep smiling,e don Vickersm  < > o Include the then-current FAQ on the next Freeware CD(s). >  > Just some ideas... >r > -- > David J. Dachteraw > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >h* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/A >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:25:57 -0500(+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>n5 Subject: OT: JF's reputation (Was: Please Read - ...)-J Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017846B9@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>   --=_IS_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: text/plain;m 	charset="iso-8859-1"    > -----Original Message-----6 > From: elde@hurricane.net [mailto:elde@hurricane.net]  @ > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:? > >It's just some nasty troll using anonymous remailers to try   > and damage JF'sf > >reputation. s  G > I don't see why they would bother..  JF's pretty much trashed his ownt- > reputation here about as much as it can be.    In defense of JF:   C I don't think it's that bad.  Sure, he argues with people, but he'siF clearly not an idiot -- I hope at least everyone would agree that he's? not an idiot in the sense of the people who wrote that message.   B Sure, he makes assertions that he can't back up as to Compaq/HP's D motives, but so do many other people (on both sides of the perpetualA argument).  Honestly, the way things are panning out, I think JF  ? may even be on the right track.  Is there one of us who hasn't i0 considered that?  We'll all know in a few years.  A The fact that he can't (doesn't?) back up his assertions too well C doesn't mean he's wrong.  HPaq is very "hush hush" about this wholewA VMS thing, and that doesn't seem good to me, either.  JF has madeh@ his guess, and I will assume that he's sticking with it until he sees a better explanation.    D Does his jaded manner in this whole thing earn him a bad reputation?A I don't think it should.  There are plenty of people here who've cD got all the reason in the world to be more jaded than JF.  He's justE the one who actually _does_ it :)  (Specifically I speak of a couple  , of people who I hope have found jobs by now)  A At any rate, I, for one, can't blame him at all for his attitude.I  D Of course, if JF, Andrew, Rob, and some others, can come to a mutualE disagreement, all the better.  :)  (Note that I like all of the abovelD people fine, too, I just would prefer to see more _constructive_ and' forward looking [and civil!] arguments)b  D The solutions to many problems are to be found in honest differences of opinion.u   Regards,   Chrise  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");w 'd  : --=_IS_MIME_Boundary) Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-asciii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitl Content-Disposition: inline   U -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   C The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs,S  1 protected from disclosure, and may be privileged.   N The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s)  L of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,  P you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of   ? this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.    N If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately  > by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.  
 Thank you.  U -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------E   --=_IS_MIME_Boundary--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:03:19 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> 9 Subject: Re: OT: JF's reputation (Was: Please Read - ...) ' Message-ID: <3CF68587.C904B084@vcu.edu>l  A Actually, this behavior is typical of Klez.. someone who has JF's  address is infected..      jimn   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: elde@hurricane.net [mailto:elde@hurricane.net] > B > > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:@ > > >It's just some nasty troll using anonymous remailers to try > > and damage JF's  > > >reputation. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:50:08 -0400S- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>N9 Subject: Re: OT: JF's reputation (Was: Please Read - ...)O, Message-ID: <3CF6907A.2BDD42A2@videotron.ca>   Jim Agnew wrote: > C > Actually, this behavior is typical of Klez.. someone who has JF'se > address is infected...  G I know I am bad, but not THAT bad... my name isn't so bad that its mereaQ presence in an address book results it that person being infected :-) :-) :-) :-)   K Note that the culprit did some research on what newsgroups I participate innJ and targetted those.  Perhaps the news->mail gateway for comp.os.vms couldT automatically filter out any message that is cross-posted to a non comp.* newsgroup.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 18:43:05 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>O Subject: OT: Remailers (was Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!))n6 Message-ID: <20020530184305.30547.qmail@gacracker.org>  < On 30 May 2002, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:B >In article <20020530172836.28939.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher, ><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:< >> On Thu, 30 May 2002, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:I >>>Not sure, but it looks to me as if segfault.net may be running an openj	 >>>relay. ; >>>Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages?d >> @ >> Segfault is a remailer. >> dL >> I really hate when these stupid a**holes decide to use remailers for this% >> sort of ignorant abusive stuff. :(t >> n >a? >	First Amendment, blah blah blah.  Wickedness is protected andz@ >	promoted in many cases and tools like remailers certainly helpF >	wicked people hide under the cover of anonymity.  Wouldn't want yourF >	friends and neighbors know what you are up to.  Right to privacy andH >	all that mindless reasoning that goes with it.  (somehow isn't in our @ >	constitution or bill of rights, but hey ... who cares, right?)  K I know, I believe remailers can serve a good purpose, I promote their usage C and help people understand how they operate, but I can't help being=D disgusted at the abuse they sometimes manage to attract. 90%+ of theJ remailer users probably don't need them but they provide cover traffic for those that do.  E What we have here is someone who is technically competent but has not K passed beyond the schoolyard insults stage, you can bet they wouldn't be somE abusive or insulting in public, they're probably a 14 year-old sociall misfit with glasses and acne.6     Doc. -- 16 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netm   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 19:04:05 GMT) From: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk (Dr Ivan D. Reid)r+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins).2 Message-ID: <slrnafctt4.3t1.idr@ax9.hep.ucl.ac.uk>  E On Thu, 30 May 2002 11:44:22 -0400, Eric Sosman <Eric.Sosman@sun.com>_&  wrote in <3CF648D6.C032EACD@sun.com>: >David Jones wrote:p  " >>   14 days     24 hr.   3600 sec> >> ----------- * ------ * -------- = 1209600 seconds/fortnight! >> 1 fortnight   1 day     1 hourN >>  B >>                                 = 1.2096 seconds/microfortnight >>  F >>                                 = 1209.6 microseconds/nanofortnight  > 	From memory, without working it out again 1 furlong/fortnightA would be exactly 1 cm/min if we changed the definition of an inchj; from 2.54 cm (exactly) to 2.545454545454... cm (2 + 54/99).s  7 >    I confess I rather enjoyed the occasional humorouse6 >touches in DEC documentation and software.  One of my6 >favorites was in the RSX system generation procedure:7 >you spent a long time answering questions about how ton4 >configure the system, then the machine went off and4 >assembled a customized kernel for you.  This took a& >while, so the console carefully typed   >	SET TERM/COFFEEBREAK  ! >before starting the assembly andm   >	SET TERM/NOCOFFEEBREAK  8 >when the assembly completed and the chit-chat was about7 >to resume.  Years later, in homage to the RSX folks, Iv8 >put the same joke in the installation procedure for the8 >VMS version of my then-company's principal product; I'm8 >sure lots of installers noticed it, and I hope at least  >a few understood the reference.  > 	You may be right, but my memory of that procedure was that itD output a message along the lines: "This will take a while, why don'tL you take a [coffee|tea]-break?" -- where the actual beverage output dependedE on your earlier answer to the local mains frequency: 60 Hz -> coffee,:
 50 Hz -> tea.0   -- :N Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Eng., Brunel Uni.      Ivan.Reid@brunel.ac.uk< 	KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:15:43 GMTI) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>n+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)?' Message-ID: <3CF6B259.E87C1FAE@ev1.net>h   David Jones wrote: > + > In message <3CF55CB6.13A8D19B@yahoo.com>,-. >    CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> writes: >  > >Eric Sosman wrote:CG > >>     No, microfortnights.  (And that was only in the documentation;g@ > >> the implementation actually treated the timeout duration asA > >> seconds, thus committing an error of more than 20%.  I don'te& > >> know if a bug was ever filed ...) > >m2 > >I get about 826 microseconds per nanofortnight. > E > There are ~826.7 nanofortnights in 1 second, how you managed to get : > that as microseconds/nanofortnight I can't quite reckon. > ! >   14 days     24 hr.   3600 secu= > ----------- * ------ * -------- = 1209600 seconds/fortnightw  > 1 fortnight   1 day     1 hour > A >                                 = 1.2096 seconds/microfortnight  > E >                                 = 1209.6 microseconds/nanofortnight- > > IIRC, there was a book on measures once...and it listed things@ like:  3 smidgens == a little bit...and so on. Anyone ever heard of this book before???   -- @? +-------------------------------------------------------------+s? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   | ? +-------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:43:16 -0400 ' From: Eric Sosman <Eric.Sosman@sun.com>n+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)e& Message-ID: <3CF69CF4.3DC8E7A@sun.com>   Charles Richmond wrote:@ >a@ > IIRC, there was a book on measures once...and it listed thingsB > like:  3 smidgens == a little bit...and so on. Anyone ever heard > of this book before???  >     Haven't encountered it, but it sounds like fun.  Along the@ same lines, I recall (imperfectly) some nomenclature for various= amounts of memory on the S/360; some terms are still current:a   	2 bits = 1 quartyr  	2 quartyrs = 1 nybble 	2 nybbles = 1 bytee 	2 bytes = 1 halfwordF 	2 halfwords = 1 fullwordg 	2 fullwords = 1 doublewordo 	2 doublewords = 1 mouthful: 	2 mouthfuls = 1 handful 	2 handfuls = 1 whopperd  : ... the first being inspired by the old practice of making: smaller change by cutting American dollar coins into eight9 "bits," and the last by an advertising slogan boasting of : the great size of a fast-food item: "It takes two hands to handle a Whopper."   -- . Eric.Sosman@sun.com6   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 00:11:04 GMTh/ From: "Don Chiasson" <don_chiasson@notmail.com>v+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)wJ Message-ID: <sczJ8.154089$t8_.145196@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  4 "Eric Sosman" <Eric.Sosman@sun.com> wrote in message  news:3CF69CF4.3DC8E7A@sun.com... > Charles Richmond wrote:u > >:B > > IIRC, there was a book on measures once...and it listed thingsD > > like:  3 smidgens == a little bit...and so on. Anyone ever heard > > of this book before??? >a@ >     Haven't encountered it, but it sounds like fun.  Along theB > same lines, I recall (imperfectly) some nomenclature for various? > amounts of memory on the S/360; some terms are still current:, >S > 2 bits = 1 quartyr > 2 quartyrs = 1 nybblen > 2 nybbles = 1 byte	 [snip...]n+ Isn't that 2 bits = 1 fang (think Dracula)?i   ---Don e-mail: it's not not, it's hot.y   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:14:42 GMT:- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>-+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)2* Message-ID: <3CF6CBEA.5020102@qsl.network>   Eric Sosman wrote: >  > 	2 bits = 1 quartyrd   Wouldn't 2 bits be a tayste?   > 	2 quartyrs = 1 nybble > 	2 nybbles = 1 byte  > 	2 bytes = 1 halfword    2 bytes should be a chomp.   1 chomp + 1 tayste = bit_toung   > 	2 halfwords = 1 fullworda   2 chomps should be a gulpm   1 gulp + 1 nybble = bit_lip    > 	2 fullwords = 1 doubleword    2 gulps = 1 mouthfull    > 	2 doublewords = 1 mouthfula > 	2 mouthfuls = 1 handful   2 mouthfulls = 1 gag   > 	2 handfuls = 1 whopper/   2 gags = 1 choke.a     -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyu   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 19:41:25 -07000 From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)k0 Message-ID: <86ptzdt4x6.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>  9 >>>>> "Eric" == Eric Sosman <Eric.Sosman@sun.com> writes:o   Eric> "Alan J. Wylie" wrote: >>  = >> I've missed the start of this thread, so forgive me if I'm A >> looping, but wasn't a VMS timeout expressed in nanofortnights?   H Eric>     No, microfortnights.  (And that was only in the documentation;A Eric> the implementation actually treated the timeout duration assB Eric> seconds, thus committing an error of more than 20%.  I don't' Eric> know if a bug was ever filed ...)i  D The story I heard was that the timer routines weren't up yet, so theC time was measured by a busy loop, and this value was about 1.2 secs C per turn, and the unit was invented to more accurately describe thee time than "seconds" would have.    Was I misled?  Say it isn't so!b   Just another former VMS admin, -- lK Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 ? <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>oC Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. M See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!A   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:03:06 GMTr& From: elde@hurricane.net (Derek Lyons)5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationf4 Message-ID: <3d057740.14774796@supernews.seanet.com>  > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:L >It's just some nasty troll using anonymous remailers to try and damage JF's
 >reputation. a  E I don't see why they would bother..  JF's pretty much trashed his own.+ reputation here about as much as it can be.t   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 12:21:35 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationo= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205301121.2fc5df81@posting.google.com>   ` Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<3CF6079F.46700B4@bigpond.com>... > JF Mezei wrote:U > 0 > > MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT HOMOSEXUALS DO. > >d > 8 > Pray tell dear heart,  What has this to do with s.s.s? >  > >AH > > One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106G > > partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in ao
 > > lifetime.h > F > Jesus you yanks are slow, 8 in a lifetime!!  I had more than that at > CHICON V back in Sept 1991.s > < > (sorry Janet you weren't the only one that week end :-(  )  = and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,W unless death or adultry ...t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:43:51 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationq@ Message-ID: <XhvJ8.69638$Kp.6981370@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0205301121.2fc5df81@posting.google.com...s   ...a  ? > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,w > unless death or adultry ...l  K Why am I not surprised that idiocy and Bible-thumping go hand-in-hand?  Any-J other institutions besides VMS and the church that you'd care to embarrass by your association with them?   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:02:52 GMTC4 From: "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important InformationaK Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0205301832290.3847-100000@localhost.localdomain>t  % On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote:h   > 7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0205301121.2fc5df81@posting.google.com...  >  > ...J > A > > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,r > > unless death or adultry ...u > H > Why am I not surprised that idiocy and Bible-thumping go hand-in-hand?  < By defintion when you say idiocy, short of making a clinical6 diagnosis of Bob's mental capabilities, you are simply8 classifying what he said as being something you consider; foolish.  You seem to assume that there is agreement in thea2 audience here with you on whether J's having eight: partners in one day is considered something to brag about.5 As to "bible-thumping"... Bob didn't use any biblical 8 citations but I suppose that detail may not be important to you.d   >  AnyL > other institutions besides VMS and the church that you'd care to embarrass  > by your association with them?  6 Which church would that be? Are you reading a lot into5 what Bob said?  Reacting to some unpleasant childhood.4 memories or something?  Are you and Bob old enemies?6 You're trying to intimidate the guy into being silent.6 I don't know why that's fair since J. made her comment3 in a public forum and invited (by posting) somebody  to comment.p  	 -McDaniele   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:11:29 GMT - From: John Beaderstadt <beady@mindspring.com>y5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information - Message-ID: <3CF6B1A2.6080905@mindspring.com>b   Bob Ceculski wrote:     ? > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,e > unless death or adultry ...     . Actually, I believe God commands *four* wives.   -- eH Beady's 6th Law of Social Harmonics:  "You cannot reason a man out of a 9 position he did not reach through reason." (Plagiarized.)b   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:35:08 GMTh& From: elde@hurricane.net (Derek Lyons)5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information(3 Message-ID: <3cf6b717.8175159@supernews.seanet.com>n  . John Beaderstadt <beady@mindspring.com> wrote: >Bob Ceculski wrote:@ >> and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands, >> unless death or adultry ... >-/ >Actually, I believe God commands *four* wives.-   In serial or parallel?   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 00:11:51 GMTs4 From: "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information)K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0205301952210.4123-100000@localhost.localdomain>n  % On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote:s   > A > "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote in messageiG > news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0205301832290.3847-100000@localhost.localdomain...n) > > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote:e > >  > > >y; > > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagen= > > > news:d7791aa1.0205301121.2fc5df81@posting.google.com...- > > >-	 > > > ...- > > >-E > > > > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,e# > > > > unless death or adultry ...r > > > L > > > Why am I not surprised that idiocy and Bible-thumping go hand-in-hand? > > @ > > By defintion when you say idiocy, short of making a clinical: > > diagnosis of Bob's mental capabilities, you are simply< > > classifying what he said as being something you consider > > foolish. > L > No:  I have rather more experience with Bob than I'd care to, and he is ifG > not clinically an idiot certainly one in the commonly-accepted idiom.s  < Do you believe the "bible-thumping" caused this condition or: something else?  I'm curious about why you believe "idiocy8 and Bible-thumping go [together]".  Given that Bob's and: your own history are completely unknown to me, perhaps you# could humor me with an explanation.e  5 >   You seem to assume that there is agreement in ther6 > > audience here with you on whether J's having eight> > > partners in one day is considered something to brag about. > H > Not at all.  In fact, I have exactly zero interest in what any of thisL > audience outside comp.os.vms think, and would have pruned the other groupsL > had I thought of it.  In this response, I've pruned comp.os.vms, since the> > trash that's come in on this thread is of no interest there.  = Are you speaking for everyone that reads comp.os.vms?  I finda< it interesting that people often forget to trim distribution/ until after they've said what they want to say.<  9 > > As to "bible-thumping"... Bob didn't use any biblicala< > > citations but I suppose that detail may not be important > > to you.3 > H > 'God' (capitalized, in the societies almost certainly most prevalentlyN > represented here) is not a biblical reference?  Guess you have problems with > details yourself.r  ? In that the word "God" is not exclusively found in the bible ore< limited to biblical references the word does not necessarily; indicate a biblical reference.  Plenty of people invoke thet> name "God" without making any specific or intentional biblicalA reference at all as was the case, from my point of view, in Bob's*< posting.   Am I clear now or should I provide more examples?  
 > > >  AnyF > > > other institutions besides VMS and the church that you'd care to > embarrassm$ > > > by your association with them? > > : > > Which church would that be? Are you reading a lot into > > what Bob said? > G > Nope.  You, on the other hand, appear to be more than eager to do so.d > J > Please don't respond personally (I have no interest in talking with you)  = Or perhaps you aren't up to it.  I understand.  Unfortunately 7 I see no point directing questions about what you meantm< to anybody besides yourself.  Perhaps you could direct me to someone who feels capable.   > andtH > try to keep comp.os.vms out of your postings in the future (unless you2 > actually have something relevant to post there).  B I think my response is relevant in that my first post did go there< so I'm sending this out to comp.os.vms aswell, your decisionB to limit distribution being just that.  I agree with the sentiment@ that postings should be on topic in every NG but I think we both; know that that's the ideal case for unmoderated NGs and note	 the rule.l  	 -McDaniel    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 00:30:57 GMTm* From: David Findlay <david@davsoft.com.au>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationv@ Message-ID: <5vzJ8.200772$o66.595156@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   <posted & mailed>.  @ JF Mezei hit his keyboard with a large tuner and the result was:  G > for the record, I did not send the message which started this thread.d1 > Please do not feed the troll and don't respond.c  K I'd recommend you sign your messages with PGP. At least then we can verify tI what comes from you very easily. You might be able to find a copy of PGP o< 6.5 for windows on disks that come with computer magazenes.    Davidi   -- n
 NO CARRIER   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:00:38 +1000l. From: Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information4+ Message-ID: <3CF70376.1806B4CD@bigpond.com>e   Bob Ceculski wrote:l  b > Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<3CF6079F.46700B4@bigpond.com>... > > JF Mezei wrote:  > >s2 > > > MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT HOMOSEXUALS DO. > > >u > >e: > > Pray tell dear heart,  What has this to do with s.s.s? > >e > > >rJ > > > One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106I > > > partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a  > > > lifetime.b > >mH > > Jesus you yanks are slow, 8 in a lifetime!!  I had more than that at > > CHICON V back in Sept 1991.  > >i> > > (sorry Janet you weren't the only one that week end :-(  ) >n? > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,a > unless death or adultry ...r  6 Proud? no sad and dissapointed, two or three got away.  8 What god?  There is no god, only fairly tales for adults   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:01:19 +1000w. From: Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information + Message-ID: <3CF7039E.CC94F44A@bigpond.com>E   Bob Ceculski wrote:g  b > Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<3CF6079F.46700B4@bigpond.com>... > > JF Mezei wrote:- > >-2 > > > MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT HOMOSEXUALS DO. > > >r > >i: > > Pray tell dear heart,  What has this to do with s.s.s? > >c > > > J > > > One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106I > > > partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a> > > > lifetime.E > >oH > > Jesus you yanks are slow, 8 in a lifetime!!  I had more than that at > > CHICON V back in Sept 1991.t > >c> > > (sorry Janet you weren't the only one that week end :-(  ) >n? > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,e > unless death or adultry ...o  Q Islam has four wives per man, if he can afford it (and putup with 4x the nagging)c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:03:12 +1000q. From: Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationd+ Message-ID: <3CF70410.547E9BD8@bigpond.com>r   "H. McDaniel" wrote:  ' > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote:i >  > > 9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageo; > > news:d7791aa1.0205301121.2fc5df81@posting.google.com...  > >s > > ...s > >eC > > > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands, ! > > > unless death or adultry ...- > >-J > > Why am I not surprised that idiocy and Bible-thumping go hand-in-hand? >o> > By defintion when you say idiocy, short of making a clinical8 > diagnosis of Bob's mental capabilities, you are simply: > classifying what he said as being something you consider= > foolish.  You seem to assume that there is agreement in the 4 > audience here with you on whether J's having eight< > partners in one day is considered something to brag about.  7 It wasn't 8 in a day.  8 over 7 days (Friday was goood)    >l7 > As to "bible-thumping"... Bob didn't use any biblicalb: > citations but I suppose that detail may not be important	 > to you.t >  > >  AnyN > > other institutions besides VMS and the church that you'd care to embarrass" > > by your association with them? > 8 > Which church would that be? Are you reading a lot into7 > what Bob said?  Reacting to some unpleasant childhoodw6 > memories or something?  Are you and Bob old enemies?8 > You're trying to intimidate the guy into being silent.8 > I don't know why that's fair since J. made her comment5 > in a public forum and invited (by posting) somebody 
 > to comment.t >  > -McDanielb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:04:19 +1000I. From: Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information-+ Message-ID: <3CF70453.795DB051@bigpond.com>m   Derek Lyons wrote:  0 > John Beaderstadt <beady@mindspring.com> wrote: > >Bob Ceculski wrote:B > >> and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,  > >> unless death or adultry ... > > 1 > >Actually, I believe God commands *four* wives.  >h > In serial or parallel? >    serial,  ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:05:24 -0700=' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>a  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L+ Message-ID: <3CF677F4.378B70BE@caltech.edu>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > E >       HP Introduces Powerful, High-density Server and Supercomputer < >       More Than 1,000 New AlphaServer Systems Already Sold' >       PALO ALTO, Calif., May 28, 2002l   Shouldn't this have been:i  D    "HP rebadges API hardware and charges suckers ultra high prices?"    What I'd really like to know is:  % Did HP obtain API's unsold inventory?a  . How many, if any, of these DS20L machines came from that inventory?  . Other than minor cosmetic changes, did HPQ put0 any engineering effort into this product once it acquired it from API?   * Seems to me that if CPQ/HPQ hand't scarfed) these up they'd be selling for 1/10th the1 price through Island right now.   0 Also seems to me that it makes no economic sense3 at all, unless you absolutely must run 64 bit code,s5 to purchase an SC20 built from DS20Ls since a beowulf 1 built from Athlons or P4's has a much, much, MUCHl, better CPU/$ ratio.  At $1200 per 1U machine4 (512Mb memory,Athlon 2100) one could buy 15  Athlons2 for the $18000 a single DS20L costs. Or make it 14. and spend the rest on the rack to put them in.  8 What kind of moron would buy the SC20 base unit, costing6 $290 k$ and containing 8 alpha CPUs and 4Gb of memory,4 when they could have instead 16 racks of 224 Athlons with 112 Gb memory?  l  1 Or, for that matter, what besides the really cooli9 "SC20" name makes an SC20 more than the sum of its parts? 6 8 alpha CPUs is only 4 DS20Ls and 4*18 k$ = 72 k$.  Or6 maybe the base SC20 uses single CPU DS20L units and so6 is 8 units at 18 k$ which is still only 144 k$.  What,; exactly, does the customer get for the extra 208 or 146 k$?m/ Maybe Myrinet on each node?  That wouldn't comes- close to covering this huge price difference.r   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:49:20 -0400y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L, Message-ID: <3CF6823F.7180EC6A@videotron.ca>   "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote: A > Thanks for the article - but isn't the DS20L Linux/Unix *only*?a > # > If so, why the posting in c.o.v.?     L Since Carly had stated no new Alpha sales, showing a press release that doesM outline sales of Alpha might be viewed as significant. My guess is that CarlynI was made to realise that her shareholders come before her stated goals ofoJ being wintel-only and that until her wintel junk makes the profits, she'llT have to continue to seel the stuff she considers legacy such as Alpha based servers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:06:18 -0400.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L, Message-ID: <3CF68638.353F3D6B@videotron.ca>   David Mathog wrote: ' > Did HP obtain API's unsold inventory?    Another possibility:  N As I recall, the DS20L was a custom config designed for a telecom customer who9 wanted them in large enough numbers to warrant such work.   F Perhaps after June 25, that customers decided not to bother with thoseK machines and now HP is stuck with them and has to find a way to sell them ?5   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:59:00 -0400.2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20LK Message-ID: <rdeininger-3005022259000001@11cust59.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>h  8 In article <3CF677F4.378B70BE@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:h    / >Other than minor cosmetic changes, did HPQ puta1 >any engineering effort into this product once ito >acquired it from API?  
 Yes, lots.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:59:33 -0400S2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20LK Message-ID: <rdeininger-3005022259330001@11cust59.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>l  5 In article <3CF6823F.7180EC6A@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei3% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:o   >"Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:B >> Thanks for the article - but isn't the DS20L Linux/Unix *only*? >> 6$ >> If so, why the posting in c.o.v.? >> > , >Since Carly had stated no new Alpha sales,    No, she didn't.1   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:26:27 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> # Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency , Message-ID: <3CF67CE3.CDCF23B2@videotron.ca>  @ > > > 1. Create a single member shadow 'set' and copy your data.L > > > 2. Do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to the member drive which will join the shadow
 > > > set.  H If you do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL, how does that affect bad blocks ? Are those4 revectored transparently even to a BACKUP/PHYSICAL ?  M Also, when you mount two absolutely identical drives in a shadowset, wouldn't0L there be absolutely no copy/merge operation since the bits that identify the# age of the data would be the same ?w  N As I recall, the shadowing software will initiate an update on a drive when itN sees that one drive in the shadowset is younger than others (eg: modificationsH made more recently than on other drives) or if the other drives were not" previously part of that shadowset.  M But if all the bits that define the status of a drive are equal, wouldn't theoL shadowing software simply think that the drives were dismounted properly andD the shadowset can now be reformed without any copy/merge operation ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:24:32 -0700aM From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net>"# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencya: Message-ID: <3CF67C70.A37B3901@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net>   Nic Clews wrote:   > Marc Van Dyck wrote: > >t >c@ > > > 1. Create a single member shadow 'set' and copy your data.L > > > 2. Do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to the member drive which will join the shadow
 > > > set.L > > > 3. Mound for the merge. This *should* largely just be read/compare andM > > > move to the next block. This is what will speed up the formation of thea > > > shadow set.a > > >c > >tN > > I'm sorry, but... When you add a new member to a shadow set, the operationN > > that takes place is a shadow copy, not a shadow merge... And when a shadowI > > copy is done, the writing to the new member takes place with no priorr > > comparison,m/ > > as far as I know. Or did I miss something ?c >bB > See my reply to JF, but this is what I'm led to believe. I'm notI > entirely sure there is (unless using minimerge) that merging or copying  > is a different operation.i  G     Indeed, merging and copying ARE different.  But you're correct thatnE they both do a read & compare.  The main difference between the merge E and the copy is that a "copy-target" is NEVER used for reads from thehF shadow set until the copy completes.  That means you never have a readB ahead of the "merge fence", which requires reading both drives andD compare (same as routine copy or at the merge fence), and possibly aC write based on the shadow master's data, all of which make for morecC I/Os plus seeking back and forth over the disk.  The result is thatd@ shadow copies DO complete faster for (almost) identical disks...       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldd! F20 Automation VMS System Supportc kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comt   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 17:06:44 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?< Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205301606.b8ddcfd@posting.google.com>   "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in message news:<craig.berry-E4FA97.10254630052002@news.directvinternet.com>..."? > In article <343f30ae.0205290751.1d97e99d@posting.google.com>,52 >  SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote: >.  ( Warning: I'm more agreeable this time!!!    > Regardings >  > $ define foo foo > $ show logical foo >  [snip]@ > > Re "10 identical translations": It tells them that iterativeH > > translation occurs a maximum of 10 times. This way you can find that- > > out without digging through the manuals. a > C > All it tells you is that the SHOW LOGICAL implementation does 10 eJ > iterations.  The OpenVMS Users' Manual guarantees 9 iterations and says J > it varies by facility, so for all we know the queue manager might do 13 C > and the image activator 11; how SHOW LOGICAL behaves provides no mD > information about any other facility than SHOW LOGICAL.  Perhaps, J > despite the statement in the documentation that it varies, 10 really is H > the magic number everywhere, but you can't deduce that from what SHOW  > LOGICAL does.a    > OK. Actually, under help for the SHOW LOGICAL command, it says  =     The logical name is translated iteratively up to a numbereC          of times determined by the system (from 9 to 11). That is,lB          translations are examined to see if they are also logical names.  ; which is different from what it says in the User's manual.    D So there is some additional confusion here. But I'll admit that whatD SHOW LOGICAL does may not be the same as what happens elsewhere. ButE that could be a problem. Suppose SHOW LOGICAL translated 10 times butt@ normal translation (as when a logical name is use in a file-spec? happened only 9 times, and suppose additionally that you had 10nD legitimate non-circular levels of iteration for a particular logicalE name. Then SHOW LOGICAL would give the wrong answer! Let me check . .t . . . . . . . . . .e  = Holy SYS$PETUNIAS!!! That is, in fact, what happens. Observe:e  e $ SL A     "A" = "B" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  1  "B" = "C" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  2  "C" = "D" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  3  "D" = "E" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  4  "E" = "F" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  5  "F" = "G" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  6  "G" = "H" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  7  "H" = "I" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  8  "I" = "J" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) $ DIR A ! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files foundn $ COPY NL: AE %COPY-S-COPIED, _NLA0: copied to DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]J.;1 (0 records)  $ DIR Ay    Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]  a= J.;1                        0/0       30-MAY-2002 23:52:13.31s  i Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks.
 $ DEFI J K $ SL A     "A" = "B" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  1  "B" = "C" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  2  "C" = "D" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  3  "D" = "E" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  4  "E" = "F" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  5  "F" = "G" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  6  "G" = "H" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  7  "H" = "I" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  8  "I" = "J" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  9  "J" = "K" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) $ DIR As* %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening A as input* -RMS-F-LNE, logical name translation error $   = Here we have what, according to SHOW LOGICAL, appears to be auE legitimate logical name A whose final, NON-CIRCULAR translation is K,o yet as a file-spec it chokes!t  E OK, so beware the 9th level of iteration!!! (Example run on VMS v6.1,eE same thing happens in v6.2. Also, I tried it again adding terminatinge= colons to all the equivalence names; it makes no difference.)      > > Logical namestB > > are pervasive on VMS. Fixing this might cause a subtle bug for+ > > everything else in VMS, so why bother? r > C > Um, I was the first to point out that there would very likely be  J > difficulties and risks involved in changing the current behavior.  That 9 > in no way implies that the current behavior is correct.a     OK.    >  > > Also, you have to check nottJ > > only if the equivalence name is the same as the original logical name,H > > but you also have to check whether the resulting equivalence name isD > > also a logical name in another table. More unnecessary overhead. > E > I don't see any reason to look in other tables since the recursion cE > already shows that it never moves beyond the table where the first sC > successful translation occurs.  However, I don't have the source  I > listings (and like Patrick I'm not a MACRO-head) so I'm far from being i; > in a position to prescribe exactly what the fix would be.t    D If FOO were defined to be something different in another table, then9 you would get a different answer by continuing iteration.s   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanm" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:38:39 -0500lC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>n Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?H Message-ID: <craig.berry-1F11E5.19383930052002@news.directvinternet.com>  < In article <343f30ae.0205301606.b8ddcfd@posting.google.com>,0  SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:    > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN] >  n? > J.;1                        0/0       30-MAY-2002 23:52:13.31t >    > Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. > $ DEFI J K > $ SL A" >    "A" = "B" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" > 1  "B" = "C" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" > 2  "C" = "D" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" > 3  "D" = "E" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" > 4  "E" = "F" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" > 5  "F" = "G" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" > 6  "G" = "H" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" > 7  "H" = "I" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" > 8  "I" = "J" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" > 9  "J" = "K" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)	 > $ DIR AF, > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening A as input, > -RMS-F-LNE, logical name translation error  B I haven't thought this through, but what happens if K.;1 actually F exists?  You have a J.;1, right, but no K.;1, so when it gets to K it G finds neither an actual file nor a further translation?  Translating K ?F would be the 11th iteration so it may simply be telling you it's gone 4 as far as it's allowed to and hasn't found anything.    ! > > > Also, you have to check not>L > > > only if the equivalence name is the same as the original logical name,J > > > but you also have to check whether the resulting equivalence name isF > > > also a logical name in another table. More unnecessary overhead. > > G > > I don't see any reason to look in other tables since the recursion  G > > already shows that it never moves beyond the table where the first eE > > successful translation occurs.  However, I don't have the source 1K > > listings (and like Patrick I'm not a MACRO-head) so I'm far from being P= > > in a position to prescribe exactly what the fix would be.. >  > F > If FOO were defined to be something different in another table, then; > you would get a different answer by continuing iteration.>  F Hmm.  I think if you get a successful match in an outer mode table it E won't proceed to an inner mode table.  The next iteration will start tG over working its way through the tables defined in LNM$FILE_DEV, so if  E you're stopping a recursion you wouldn't have to worry about whether  E the LNM exists in a more inner mode table because you'd never see it i anyway.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:31:51 -0700e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>.E Subject: smtp.config and Blocking mail(waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)i9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEHGFBAA.tom@kednos.com>s  I So, if I add segfault.net to my bad_client list in smtp.config (tcpip5.1)(9 will it block it, or does it only look at the from field?i   >-----Original Message-----iE >From: Doc.Cypher [mailto:Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]] & >Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 11:53 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ >Cc: mail2news@freedom.gmsociety.org< >Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) >  >oC >On 30 May 2002, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:e; >>In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGPFBAA.tom@kednos.com>,t( >> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:K >>|> Not sure, but it looks to me as if segfault.net may be running an open  >>|> relay.i >>B >>Of course it's na open relay.  It's a public anonymous remailer. >>That's what they do. >>= >>|> Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages?a >> >>I certainly hope so. >RJ >Alas not. The messages are being routed to Usenet via a mail2news gateway$ >and from there to the mailing list. > J >Segfault is one of the remailers most likely to be used to cause problemsE >because it allows specification of a fully forged from line. I don'tlJ >particularly like that, but it's Jochen's remailer and it's his choice ifE >that's how he wants to run it. If anyone wants to complain his email-H >address is in the Comments header. If you are complaining I'd recommendJ >pointing out the inability to killfile these messages as one of your main
 >concerns. >0 >c >Doc.e >-- 7 >The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.lL >~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.,; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eA >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002r >l ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2002 16:49:59 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2e= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205301549.26dbd453@posting.google.com>l   winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0E8C7.5C4B81C6@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...? > In article <d7791aa1.0205261819.5ca92e51@posting.google.com>, , > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >  > >mE > >this sounds alot like the problem we had w/tcpware and apache, and0F > >it got to the point where we had restarts every 5 minutes and afterG > >log analysis found out that broken pipes among other things were theoF > >culprit ... I thought a patch had been put out, but maybe it didn'tG > >do the trick ... that is why I told Q to buy Purveyor instead of theaF > >"what's popular" unix garbage, but to no avail ... looks like I was	 > >right!s > F > The purpose of porting Apache and producing CSWS is to sell more VMSF > systems, or at least to avoid losing more VMS sales.  To the extent E > that there is one, Apache is the industry-standard webserver.  With8G > CSWS, Compaq could now say "not only do we have the industry-standardcG > webserver, but our own engineers support it" and counter some of the cC > opposition's points about a lack of software availability on VMS.2 > G > (This is why, in my opinion, CSWS and Java are the most important new:P > VMS features of the last five years.  With them, there's a selling propositionI > that makes it at least possible to get new customers in the e-commerce iJ > arena, whether or not sales and marketing follow through.  Without thoseM > features, sales and marketing start with one hand tied behind their backs.)p > L > Not a lot of people (with the exception of your operation, perhaps, but I L > think you've said you only buy hardware used or at fire sales) were buyingO > VMS systems to run Purveyor - certainly not enough to make it worth Process'ssM > while to keep Purveyor under development - and there's no reason to think a-5 > lot more would have started if Compaq picked it up.m > M > "Do you run Apache, the most popular webserver on the planet, with a lot ofgE > webmaster and developer training and books available?"  "No, but wePN > bought the rights to Purveyor, which wasn't popular enough to make it on itsQ > own, and which you'll have to learn without any third-party support."  _That's_o > an attractive proposition. > N > Note that the logic of this decision has zip, zero, nada, nothing to do withM > the relative quality or VMS-appropriateness of Purveyor vs. that of Apache.-Q > Basically, if VMS is gonna be an ecommerce player at all it has to run Apache -gN > even if some perfectly sensible sites find that WASD or OSU or Purveyor fit  > better for them. > 	 > -- Alanc >   : what good is popular if it can run on tcpware or multinet?< VMS can't be no ecommerce player when something is a dud ...; Purveyor, WASD, anything that is bullet proof like VMS wille? do ... if you can run apache and understand the web and tcp/ip, 7 you should be able to run any webserver, shouldn't you?,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:54:41 -0000n From: sword7@speakeasy.org( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)/ Message-ID: <ufdlv1kllendbd@corp.supernews.com>   ) Baby Peanut <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote:JF > CPU type says MicroVAX 3800/3900.  Hopefully DELQA emulation will be? > added.  The source code to SIMH is under a BSD-style ("mostly/E > unresticted") license and is portable to Windows, various UNIX-likee  E Yes, my TS10/VAX emulator has DELQA emulation.  On OpenVMS 7,2, I was-G able download files at T1-like speed but still some problems (interruptzG issues, etc.)  I still am working on it.  Also, I added DHV11 emulation I to it and it works so well (DMA transfers and regular transmit steam but mA modem controls not implemented yet).  TS10/VAX supports OpenVMS,  H NetBSD/vax, and Ultrix.  TS10/VAX emulates KA630 and KA655 at this time.  D On 1.9 GHz P4 system, TS10/VAX runs at VUP 7.4 (without -DDEBUG) and@ VUP 5.6 (with -DDEBUG option).  Disk I/O is very fast.  OpenVMS 5 installement only takes 15 to 30 minutes to complete.'   -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:45:42 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>u! Subject: Re: VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2l* Message-ID: <3CF6D32C.7080704@qsl.network>   Mr Beermat wrote:e > A >>IIRC QIX (and probably TANK as well) ran in compatability mode.- >>sorry 'bout that.  > < > sorry to be dense. What is (or was) 'compatability mode' ?  D Compatability mode means that the image was a PDP-11 RSX-11 program.  I After VAX/VMS 4.0 came out, it required a layered produde name something >/ like RSX AME (Application Migration Executive).   F The early VAX-11 series machines could execute PDP-11 code, the later  ones did it by emulation.A  ? I have heard of some emulators for PDP-11 about, try searching  ( http://www.google.com for your programs.  I If you can find the source for the programs, it may be possible to build   them natively on OpenVMS.h   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:22:53 -0000k From: sword7@speakeasy.org3 Subject: Re: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))o/ Message-ID: <ufdk3dcb3c5a6d@corp.supernews.com>h  : Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:6 >    http://www.astro.multivax.de:8000/phillip/vup.com  E Well, I tried to access that url address but I was told that DNS namem0 is not found.  That might be misspellings or so.  E I have a copy of vups.com for my TS10/VAX emulator.  I tried that and'H got VUPS 7.4 without -DDEBUG on 1.9 GHz P4 system (VUPS 5.6 with -DDEBUG option.)  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   -- r, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2002 20:21:05 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) , Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins, Message-ID: <ad61jh$26k9$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  5 In article <300520021337548469%paul.anderson@hp.com>,n-  Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes:-? |> In article <ad5krh$2069$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon0% |> <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:: |> SD |> > If you mean that when the pupm says $1.499 for gas I'm actually/ |> > paying $1.50 you are most assuredly wrong.S |> TI |> If you buy one gallon, your price is rounded up to $1.50 since there'snJ |> no mil coin or any other way of charging your $1.499.  Buy ten gallons, |> and you are charged $14.99.  B Well, let's see.  The gauges read in gallons and tenths or dollarsA and cents.  The difference between the $1.499 price and the $1.50wC price is .0006671114 gal.  Are you sure their rounding and not justsD giveing you your 1.0006671114 gallons of gas??  How would you tell??   |> yG |> > Mills (tenths of a cent) are an official measure, but as there hasl@ |> > never in my lifetime been a coin for them and that level ofE |> > granaularity has never been needed in consumer transactions mosty |> > people ignore it. |> s  |> Sort of like the penny today.  A I use pennies all the time.  I don't see nay likelyhood that theys1 are going away any time soon, at least in the US.i   bill   -- GJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:26:15 GMTe* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins5 Message-ID: <300520021720410531%paul.anderson@hp.com>e  < In article <ad61jh$26k9$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  D > Well, let's see.  The gauges read in gallons and tenths or dollarsC > and cents.  The difference between the $1.499 price and the $1.50eE > price is .0006671114 gal.  Are you sure their rounding and not justoF > giveing you your 1.0006671114 gallons of gas??  How would you tell??  B I can't tell.  I trust the accuracy of the gas pump.  The price isF $1.499 per gallon, and if the pump charges anything different it wouldF be illegal.  Really, the only way to tell about the mils is if you buyB ten gallons exactly, and see that the pump reads $14.99 instead of $15.00.C  C > I use pennies all the time.  I don't see nay likelyhood that they_3 > are going away any time soon, at least in the US."  @ Pennies cost the government .81 cents to make.  Once the cost ofE transportation is factored in, the cost is more than a penny.  Add toNE that the two seconds per cash transaction spent counting pennies, andN@ you have a lot of money that could be saved if we rounded to the; nearest nickel.  Other countries do this and it works well.   F It's foolish to continue making billions every year, as pennies do notE really circulate.  Most are thrown away, put in the penny dish at theA( register or thrown in a big jar at home.   Paul   -- $  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS EngineeringS   Hewlett-Packard Company$   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:02:52 GMTS* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins@ Message-ID: <gkxJ8.67102$%y.6959809@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  7 "Paul Anderson" <paul.anderson@hp.com> wrote in message / news:300520021720410531%paul.anderson@hp.com...e> > In article <ad61jh$26k9$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon$ > <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote: >iF > > Well, let's see.  The gauges read in gallons and tenths or dollars > > and cents.  L The newer digital pumps read to at least 0.01 gallon (and IIRC 0.001 gallon,K not that I really am confident they have that level of measuring accuracy).   7   The difference between the $1.499 price and the $1.50bG > > price is .0006671114 gal.  Are you sure their rounding and not just H > > giveing you your 1.0006671114 gallons of gas??  How would you tell?? >sD > I can't tell.  I trust the accuracy of the gas pump.  The price isH > $1.499 per gallon, and if the pump charges anything different it wouldH > be illegal.  Really, the only way to tell about the mils is if you buyD > ten gallons exactly, and see that the pump reads $14.99 instead of	 > $15.00.n  I Which ($14.99) is exactly the case with the digital pumps.  But I haven'taI noticed whether the final calculation is rounded up (i.e., 10.001 gallonsnI would cost $15.00) or to the nearest penny (i.e., you wouldn't hit $15.00  until about 10.004 gallons).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 04:16:02 GMTO& From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins) Message-ID: <3CF6FA05.7C16D5CD@attbi.com>h   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > @ > Mills (tenths of a cent) are an official measure, but as there> > has never in my lifetime been a coin for them and that level@ > of granaularity has never been needed in consumer transactions? > most people ignore it.  The only possible reason for it beingS= > used with gasoline has to be the governement involvement ing > the pricing.  ? AFAIK there has never been a U.S. coin for a Mill, but at least4? one state (Missouri) did issue 1-Mill and 5-Mill plastic coins.O= They were in use in the 50's, but I don't know when they wereA2 first issued or when (if ever) withdrawn from use.  @ My fallible memory says the 1-Mill coins were red and the 5-Mill; coins were blue, but that may be wrong.  I'm sure they were"$ different colors, but the same size. -- ( Cheers, BobA   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:20:32 +1200)" From: "AG" <a_n_g@x_t_r_a.c_o.n_z>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins3 Message-ID: <mJDJ8.5717$EZ5.611188@news.xtra.co.nz>S  ; "CSABA HARANGOZO" <csabah@zipworld.com.au> wrote in messageR1 news:AfoJ8.2801$06.366293@nasal.pacific.net.au...E4 > Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:; > > In article <P83I8.2493$06.328911@nasal.pacific.net.au>,u7 > > CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au> writes:  > > |>J > > |>                    The 2 and 1 cent ones only went away a few yearsD > > |>      back though, but prices still marked as 2.99 or 3.98 :-)J > > |>      What they do is that at the end of the additions they round up ifK > > |>      the sum ends in 8 or 9, like for 12.98 you pay 13.00, and 6 andl 7m9 > > |>      down. All even out in the long term, I guess.e >v& > > All even out for who?? The store?? >n= > For everyone, I guess. If I go shopping let's say 10 times,e= > chances are I will be rounded down 5 times, and 5 times up. 4 > So in the end one didn't lose, as the theory goes.8 > Anyway, the people here accepted this, at the end of a> > supermarket shopping, at the checkout the sums automatically > adjusted. No one complains.r< > ( Of course amounts ending in 1 or 2 cents will be rounded= > down, and 3 & 4 up as well. We have 5 cent coins still... )f  : Don't forget that if you pay by credit card or EFTPOS card9 there is no rounding at all. If you choose to pay by suchs8 coins you do enter into an agreement how those coins are handled.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:55:19 -0700h- From: dundas@caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III)o4 Subject: [Q] 100 Mb networking options for Alpha 200< Message-ID: <dundas-3005021255190001@dundas-mac.caltech.edu>  B On an AlphaStation 200 (4/233 if that matters), are the DEFPA FDDI? adaptors compatible?  I'd like to find a DEFPA-D?, if possible.@  < Along the same line, is the DE600 (FastEthernet) compatible?  6 I couldn't find the answer to this on the Compaq site.   TIA,   John   --   John A. Dundas III2 Director, Information Technology Services, Caltech+ Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA  91125-8100aA Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 <mailto:dundas@caltech.edu>e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 20:03:10 GMTM/ From: "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com> 8 Subject: Re: [Q] 100 Mb networking options for Alpha 200B Message-ID: <2AvJ8.11124$vX7.178257956@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>  0 "John A. Dundas III" <dundas@caltech.edu> wrote:> > Along the same line, is the DE600 (FastEthernet) compatible?  G Yes, I have the OEM equivalent which runs fine (with the appropriate OSs support of course).b   James    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.299 ************************ler. >>That's what they do. >>= >>|> Is it possible for mvb.saic.com to block these messages?a >> >>I certainly hope so. >RJ >Alas not. The messages are being routed to Usenet via a mail2news gateway$ >and from there to the mailing list. > J >Segfault is one of the re@    A    B    C    D    E    F    G    H    I    J    K    L    M    N    O    P    Q    R    S    T    U    V    W    X    Y    Z    [    \    ]    ^    _    `    a    b    c    d    e    f    g    h    i    j    k    l    m    n    o    p    q    r    s    t    u    v    w    x    y    z    {    |    }    ~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             	    
            
                                                                                 !    "    #    $    %    &    '    (    )    *    +    ,    -    .    /    0    1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    :    ;    <    =    >    ?    @    A    B    C    D    E    F    G    H    I    J    K    L    M    N    O    P    Q    R    S    T    U    V    W    X    Y    Z    [    \    ]    ^    _    `    a    b    c    d    e    f    g    h    i    j    k    l    m    n    o    p    q    r    s    t    u    v    w    x    y    z    {    |    }    ~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        