1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 31 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 300       Contents:2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?2 Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie?= "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A RE: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? / Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished  backup/physical 2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) Re: Caculator within DCL Re: Caculator within DCL9 Can anyone please explain this strange DECnet behaviour ? 0 Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?& Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)* Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)9 China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye! = Re: China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye!  Console graphics reset Creating ACEs from a program Re: Curious error message  RE: Curious error message  RE: Curious error message  Re: Curious error message 1 Re: does Digital Networks not want any business?? 1 Re: does Digital Networks not want any business?? ! F$PARSE equivalent in a program ? % Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ? % Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ? % Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ? % Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ?  Format of record descriptions ! Re: Format of record descriptions 2 Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframe2 Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframe. Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I2 Re: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I2 Re: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I# Re: HP EVA Storageworks and OpenVMS # Re: HP EVA Storageworks and OpenVMS 9 Live on Tape: It's HP and the Wall Street Casino Analysts " Looking for a couple of volunteers& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading7 Memo:  Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?  MntVerifyTimeout Question  Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question  Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question  Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question  Mobile printing. Re: Mobile printing. Re: No new Alpha sales Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP 0 Re: OT: JF's reputation (Was: Please Read - ...)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)" Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins), Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information Re: Press Release DS20L ' read access required to write to a file + Re: read access required to write to a file  Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug? @ Re: smtp.config and Blocking mail(waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) Re: Strange crash  Re: Strange crash  Re: Strange crash  Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2% Re: Urgent!!!!!!!!-Process Management  Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)  Re: VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VAX to ia64 migration? Re: VAX to ia64 migration?? visual formatting (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)  VMS to UNIX/LINUX  Re: VMS to UNIX/LINUX  Re: VMS to UNIX/LINUX  Re: VMS to UNIX/LINUX  Re: VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2* Re: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))* Re: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))* RE: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))1 Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash) 1 Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash)  Re: xml and all that Re: xml and all that# Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:53:03 +0200 & From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? $ Message-ID: <3CF79C5F.4487@c-lab.de>   Bob Koehler wrote: > N > In article <3CF28BC1.ABD@c-lab.de>, Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de> writes: > > G > > The dubbing-voice (actually, the actor) of  John Wayne was actually K > > 'approved' by himself. Don't think that the voices are strange, perhaps J > > for some B/C movies that appear in dozens in the private channels, butH > > else the dubbing actors are carefully selected and usually stay with > > their 'visual' actor.  > E >    I was watching a copy of Memphis Bell dubbed in Spanish over the H >    weekend.  It's been a while since I saw the original and I couldn'tF >    follow all of the Spanish. but the dubbed voices just didn't seem" >    to fit with thier characters.   No 'quality dubbing'... G I also recall having seen 'Tatort - Kommissar Schimanski' in Italy, and 7 Schimanski's(Goetz George) voice was completely wrong.  H The Schimanski role is some sort of rough police inspector for homicide,F taking place in Germany's 'former 'steel  belt' area (Ruhrgebiet), andC is characterized by his honest, but brash behaviour - so it's not a 5 polished character, often with some comedy involved.    E The Italian voice was just boring, and appeared to belong rather to a  'pencil pusher'.     --  * Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:58:52 +0200 & From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? $ Message-ID: <3CF79DBC.6201@c-lab.de>   Tom Linden wrote:  > A > Was also used in Sweden in 19th century as the Rikstaler tr. as @ > Reichsthaler in German and I guess Imperial dollar in English.< > So you see I used the swedish rather than german spelling. >     F In older German, the 't' followed by a long vowel was often written as 'th'. > I have some reprint of Felix Dahn 'Ein Kampf um Rom' (when theD East-Goths were expelled from Italy by Justinian in, uh, 450(?) AD),? where lots of words were written with 'th' which aren't anymore ; nowadays. The novel is from the late 19th century, I think.   A So, nowadays it is 'Tal' and the coin is also written as 'Taler'.  --  * Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:56:34 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ; Subject: Re: "Best" programming language on VMS for newbie? ' Message-ID: <3CF7AB42.E26D217F@aaa.com>   6 Maybe, but in Sweden it is/was "Daler" or "Riksdaler".= We still use riksdaler instead of "kronor" (crowns) somtimes.  Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Michael Joosten wrote: >  > C > So, nowadays it is 'Tal' and the coin is also written as 'Taler'.  > --   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 07:43:17 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)F Subject: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?3 Message-ID: <XSdUrZ5T5f2u@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFNFBAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  > J > I'm not sure that it concerns them as much as you and I would think.  ItN > appears to me that they have a vision, a strategy of what they want to be asE > a company in the future, and abandoning what they regard as "older" 
 > technolgies O > seems to be part of the picture.  We are in somewhat the same predicament, we M > have some rather large customers, including some inside the government that K > we don't talk about, some of whom have never ported to Alpha for the same L > reasons that Didier cited.  Now PL/I which we supply on Alpha uses the GEML > back end, but we can't get a commitment out of HP to use it in the future,N > in fact, it appears that HP doesn't care whether they retain these customersI > or not, telling some of them to recode their applications in some other  > language. I > I mean how stupid can you get.  Why not just give these customers IBM's  > phone number.   K I just want to make sure that I understand you correctly: HP told your PL/I L customers to recode in another language ? (C/C++ by any chance ?) Although IH don't know PL/I at all, I presume that there are strong reasons for your6 customers to choose this language in the first place ?  I With the above in mind, and taking a language that I do know, I wonder if H anyone at HP has been daft enough to tell Ada users to recode in C/C++ ?  I [For the benefit of people not familiar with Ada, such a suggestion would K go down very badly with people who made the decision that Ada was the right J language to use, probably worse than VMS people been told that the upgrade path from VMS is to HP-UX.]   F Do PL/I users feel as strongly about PL/I as Ada people do about Ada ?   Simon.  F PS: I am _not_ trying to start a language war. I write in a variety ofC languages, including C, and pick the best one for the task at hand. H I am just a bit concerned that HP would tell people to recode in anotherD language without apparently taking into account the reasons that the0 original language was chosen in the first place.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 06:40:00 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> J Subject: RE: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEJCFBAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----  >From: Simon Clubley6 >[mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP]# >Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 6:43 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComG >Subject: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?  >  > ? >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFNFBAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >>K >> I'm not sure that it concerns them as much as you and I would think.  It A >> appears to me that they have a vision, a strategy of what they  >want to be asF >> a company in the future, and abandoning what they regard as "older" >> technolgies@ >> seems to be part of the picture.  We are in somewhat the same >predicament, we> >> have some rather large customers, including some inside the >government thatL >> we don't talk about, some of whom have never ported to Alpha for the same@ >> reasons that Didier cited.  Now PL/I which we supply on Alpha
 >uses the GEM A >> back end, but we can't get a commitment out of HP to use it in  >the future,? >> in fact, it appears that HP doesn't care whether they retain  >these customersJ >> or not, telling some of them to recode their applications in some other >> language.J >> I mean how stupid can you get.  Why not just give these customers IBM's >> phone number. > L >I just want to make sure that I understand you correctly: HP told your PL/IB >customers to recode in another language ? (C/C++ by any chance ?) >Although I I >don't know PL/I at all, I presume that there are strong reasons for your 7 >customers to choose this language in the first place ?   9 Probably many of the same reasons people prefer Ada to C.    > J >With the above in mind, and taking a language that I do know, I wonder ifI >anyone at HP has been daft enough to tell Ada users to recode in C/C++ ?    I do believe they have.    > J >[For the benefit of people not familiar with Ada, such a suggestion wouldL >go down very badly with people who made the decision that Ada was the rightK >language to use, probably worse than VMS people been told that the upgrade  >path from VMS is to HP-UX.] > G >Do PL/I users feel as strongly about PL/I as Ada people do about Ada ? H Yes,  not to mention the many millions lines of code in production todayJ on VMS, and the cost rewriting and the difficulty or rewriting in a 2 GL ( C )    >  >Simon.  > G >PS: I am _not_ trying to start a language war. I write in a variety of D >languages, including C, and pick the best one for the task at hand.I >I am just a bit concerned that HP would tell people to recode in another E >language without apparently taking into account the reasons that the 1 >original language was chosen in the first place.  >  >-- < >Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP, >Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world. >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:25:05 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 8 Subject: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished8 Message-ID: <uuiefu4th5301ak8odnof6eqdvrbka4n6s@4ax.com>  C According to this week's UK "Computer Weekly" (circulation close to A infinite it sometime appears), "Analyst Meta Group Vice President C Rakesh Kumar (says the VMS port to Itanium) is not going to happen"   C Article appears on page 8 of the print edition and at the following  URL in the onlne edition http://www.cw360.com/bin/bladerunner?REQUNIQ=1022839628&REQSESS=P4245IEE4&REQHOST=site1&2131REQEVENT=&CFLAV=1&CCAT=-99999&CCHAN=-99999&CARTI=112929     @ Analyst Meta Group vice-president Rakesh Kumar said, "The simpleC answer is for HP to tell its customers when it is going to kill off F Alpha and how they can migrate to HP-UX. To migrate OpenVMS to Itanium> doesn't make sense and we believe it is not going to happen."   D If the URL wraps or is just screwed up enter "kumar" into the search box at www.computerweekly.co.uk   F I trust someone from Compaq will contact both Computer Weekly and Meta Group to put them right...  B But then maybe they just believe Michael "eviscerate" Capellas andE ignore anything the VMS group says.  After all it really doesn't make D sense to create something you intend to help Bill Gates destroy doesC it? That couldn't be where all these analysts get their funny ideasf" from could it? Nah too obvious :-(  E Perhaps Marcello and Gorham could make repititions of Capellas (errm)  "blunders" a resignation issue.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:06:46 GMTo. From: ">>> ^P" <plj@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished9 Message-ID: <3CF7594D.F67E7A72@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>f   Sorry authorisation has failed.V     Alan Greig skrev:e  E > According to this week's UK "Computer Weekly" (circulation close tolC > infinite it sometime appears), "Analyst Meta Group Vice PresidentrE > Rakesh Kumar (says the VMS port to Itanium) is not going to happen"e > E > Article appears on page 8 of the print edition and at the followings > URL in the onlne edition > http://www.cw360.com/bin/bladerunner?REQUNIQ=1022839628&REQSESS=P4245IEE4&REQHOST=site1&2131REQEVENT=&CFLAV=1&CCAT=-99999&CCHAN=-99999&CARTI=112929o > B > Analyst Meta Group vice-president Rakesh Kumar said, "The simpleE > answer is for HP to tell its customers when it is going to kill offsH > Alpha and how they can migrate to HP-UX. To migrate OpenVMS to Itanium? > doesn't make sense and we believe it is not going to happen."  >pF > If the URL wraps or is just screwed up enter "kumar" into the search! > box at www.computerweekly.co.uk  >aH > I trust someone from Compaq will contact both Computer Weekly and Meta > Group to put them right... >eD > But then maybe they just believe Michael "eviscerate" Capellas andG > ignore anything the VMS group says.  After all it really doesn't make)F > sense to create something you intend to help Bill Gates destroy doesE > it? That couldn't be where all these analysts get their funny ideasi$ > from could it? Nah too obvious :-( >nG > Perhaps Marcello and Gorham could make repititions of Capellas (errm)(! > "blunders" a resignation issue.e >o > -- > Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 06:13:22 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished3 Message-ID: <+32cGrTGP76p@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  ` In article <uuiefu4th5301ak8odnof6eqdvrbka4n6s@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > E > According to this week's UK "Computer Weekly" (circulation close toaC > infinite it sometime appears), "Analyst Meta Group Vice President$E > Rakesh Kumar (says the VMS port to Itanium) is not going to happen"   A Somebody in VMS Development should get Mark Gorham to keep a list 6 so this fellow can be invited to the coming out party.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:36:56 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>f< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished; Message-ID: <01KIDO1AA4KW96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>I  G With Mark Gorham's permission, I am posting his answer here to an emailk7 from me, in reference to the story in Computer Weekly: e  H > just got this from the UK [from Alan] too. We'll keep working with theJ > dis-believers.  FYI the port is ahead of schedule, morale in engineering > is high, we're looking good! a  G He responded within a couple of minutes of me writing him, both to the GI original email and to my question whether I can quote him here.  I think a that is excellent support.  G So, emails to the people in charge DO reach them and they DO respond.  nI Polite emails pointing out specific problems have shown some encouraging sI results of late.  I suggest that we use this possibility to influence HP l constructively.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:13:47 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished) Message-ID: <3CF768FB.D496CC9B@127.0.0.1>p   Alan Greig wrote:L > E > According to this week's UK "Computer Weekly" (circulation close toeC > infinite it sometime appears), "Analyst Meta Group Vice PresidenttE > Rakesh Kumar (says the VMS port to Itanium) is not going to happen"n  A Don't shoot the rider, tackle the guy that's trying to unseat thea rider...  < http://domino.metagroup.com/bios98a.nsf/analyst/rakesh_kumar  % rakesh.kumar "at" metagroup "dot" comt   -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:48:41 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished8 Message-ID: <igoefuop2ssb1s9gc2bp1vgimm634s2qkk@4ax.com>    >Sorry authorisation has failed.   Ok, here's the entire article.     ( Compaq users relief at HP support plans  by  Eric Doyle  I mailto:CW360editorial@cw360.com?subject=CompaqusersreliefatHPsupportplansn   Thursday 30 May 2002    yC Hewlett-Packard is promising its Compaq enterprise server customerssC that there will be no big surprises in the new roadmaps for productm1 development following the biggest-ever IT merger.s  D Key Compaq systems include the Alpha processor, Tru64 Unix operatingF system, and Tandem Nonstop servers, which are used in critical systems- including those at the London Stock Exchange.i  < Before the Compaq and HP merger, Himalaya Nonstop server andA Alphaserver users had been told of plans to migrate both hardware F platforms and their operating systems to run on Intel's 64-bit Itanium processors.   @ Michael Jones, senior strategy architect at Crestco, a real-time? securities settlement system developer and HP's biggest Nonstop)A customer, said, "In the early days with Compaq we felt very shakytE about the future but now that the situation has been clarified by HP,  we feel in a better position."  E Andy Isherwood, the new general manager for enterprise systems at HP,-E said the development path for the HP Nonstop servers, as they are nowaE called, will not change from the plans announced by Compaq. The first:D Itanium servers will appear in 2004 but the company will ensure thatC current servers, based on Mips processors, will be maintained for a1 prolonged overlap period.s  E A degree of despondency may show in the Alpha camp. This is a complexaB platform, inherited via Compaq's acquisition of Digital Equipment.D Under Compaq, Windows support for Alpha was curtailed but it said itF would take Tru64 Unix and the OpenVMS operating systems to Itanium. HP@ has announced that Tru64 will give way to its own brand of Unix,F HP-UX, but remains committed to moving OpenVMS across. HP is preparing; a series of roadshows to assuage the fears of Alpha owners.s  @ Analyst Meta Group vice-president Rakesh Kumar said, "The simpleC answer is for HP to tell its customers when it is going to kill off.F Alpha and how they can migrate to HP-UX. To migrate OpenVMS to Itanium> doesn't make sense and we believe it is not going to happen."   B Kumar said an Alpha based on Itanium and running HP-UX would be no( different from a standard Intel server.   C However, Intel, which entered a joint development programme for therF Alpha chip with Compaq, has announced that it plans to use some of theD Alpha technology in future Itanium releases. It may not be so much a@ case of Alphaservers looking like Intel servers as the other way around.i  F Jones said, "We were apprehensive before the take-over because we haveB a five-year plan to migrate to a more open standards-based NonstopD platform. We are now confident that we can go forward and that there, will be no surprises further down the road."   Compaq server migration mapj  D HP Nonstop users will be moved to Intel Itanium servers, starting in 2004 eC Mips-based servers will work seamlessly with the new servers and bel" supported for most of this decade > Alphaservers will move to Itanium but Itanium will incorporate Alpha-like features E Tru64 users will move sideways to HP-UX and some of the main features ; of Tru64, such as clustering, may be incorporated in HP-UX    C OpenVMS will be ported to Itanium to "rescue" investment by Vax and' Alphaserver users.  w   -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:15:30 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished; Message-ID: <01KIDRJECGKS96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>,  > > http://domino.metagroup.com/bios98a.nsf/analyst/rakesh_kumar  I Interesting tidbit: "Prior to joining META Group in January 1999, he was  D EMEA marketing manager for Hewlett Packard's commercial Unix and NT G business.  Prior to that, Mr. Kumar held various positions with IBM in eG code development, sales and consultancy operations management, and its o software business development.".   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:29:55 +0100.( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished) Message-ID: <3CF77AD3.939BA122@127.0.0.1>'   Phillip Helbig wrote:t > @ > > http://domino.metagroup.com/bios98a.nsf/analyst/rakesh_kumar > J > Interesting tidbit: "Prior to joining META Group in January 1999, he wasE > EMEA marketing manager for Hewlett Packard's commercial Unix and NT H > business.  Prior to that, Mr. Kumar held various positions with IBM inH > code development, sales and consultancy operations management, and its! > software business development."e   Try this powerpoint....u  @ http://www.esasystems.es/eventos/presentacion%20Meta%20Group.ppt  D Look through it, and perhaps you'll start to realise just where he's coming from.  @ One snippet: Bearing in mind this presentation is dated 2001, heF MENTIONS OS/2 as being important on the desktop for administration and management! (Slide 18).   C (I'd put more exclamations point in but Hoff's complained about the  shortage already :-))e -- A( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comw   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:06:16 GMT 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished2 Message-ID: <srLJ8.10$CS4.409688@news.cpqcorp.net>   Folks   J Not to discredit analysts who only have to be right aprox 15% of the time.G Since some of them are amazing.  However they do not make money tellingtL their customers "you made the correct decision and you do not need to change your direction."  I We are porting, it is going well and there a load of engineers working oneB the port, and if I gave details it would blow the booting contest.  I Everyone has a right to believe what they want, but for the last 10 yearsn analysts have been telling ush     not going to do xt     will be dead in a year!     company does not support theme   We end up doing xa We are still here D We get a large budget from what ever company we work for every year.C We do grow, we do get new customers and we do cool technical stuff.t   Make up your own mind.     Sue       2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:uuiefu4th5301ak8odnof6eqdvrbka4n6s@4ax.com... >oE > According to this week's UK "Computer Weekly" (circulation close toiC > infinite it sometime appears), "Analyst Meta Group Vice President E > Rakesh Kumar (says the VMS port to Itanium) is not going to happen"w >oE > Article appears on page 8 of the print edition and at the followingg > URL in the onlne edition >.L http://www.cw360.com/bin/bladerunner?REQUNIQ=1022839628&REQSESS=P4245IEE4&REG QHOST=site1&2131REQEVENT=&CFLAV=1&CCAT=-99999&CCHAN=-99999&CARTI=112929- >- > B > Analyst Meta Group vice-president Rakesh Kumar said, "The simpleE > answer is for HP to tell its customers when it is going to kill off6H > Alpha and how they can migrate to HP-UX. To migrate OpenVMS to Itanium? > doesn't make sense and we believe it is not going to happen."u >yF > If the URL wraps or is just screwed up enter "kumar" into the search! > box at www.computerweekly.co.ukS >eH > I trust someone from Compaq will contact both Computer Weekly and Meta > Group to put them right... >JD > But then maybe they just believe Michael "eviscerate" Capellas andG > ignore anything the VMS group says.  After all it really doesn't makekF > sense to create something you intend to help Bill Gates destroy doesE > it? That couldn't be where all these analysts get their funny ideasy$ > from could it? Nah too obvious :-( >eG > Perhaps Marcello and Gorham could make repititions of Capellas (errm) ! > "blunders" a resignation issue.m >, > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 07:16:52 -0700e, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished4 Message-ID: <ad80kl$to97a$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KIDRJECGKS96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...,@ > > http://domino.metagroup.com/bios98a.nsf/analyst/rakesh_kumar >lJ > Interesting tidbit: "Prior to joining META Group in January 1999, he wasE > EMEA marketing manager for Hewlett Packard's commercial Unix and NTtH > business.  Prior to that, Mr. Kumar held various positions with IBM inH > code development, sales and consultancy operations management, and its! > software business development."s  I This is a very good point.  All of these analysts came from somewhere.  IbI feel that they often have an "ax to grind".  Ashok Kumar comes to mind as = an example, ex Intel employee, built his career slamming AMD.y   JimH   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:34:17 GMTl1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished- Message-ID: <JRLJ8.24386$0A2.23517@rwcrnsc54>a  @ Analyst Meta Group vice-president Rakesh Kumar said, "The simpleC answer is for HP to tell its customers when it is going to kill offuF Alpha and how they can migrate to HP-UX. To migrate OpenVMS to Itanium= doesn't make sense and we believe it is not going to happen."y  D "We," eh? Has he got a mouse in his pocket. Does he know squat about6 OpenVMS? Could he even log into an OpenVMS system?....  B Kumar said an Alpha based on Itanium and running HP-UX would be no' different from a standard Intel server.t  * Well, that answers the question above! ;-}  L Purely amazing that C-level types think these Armani Analysts are infallibleD just because they charge an arm and a leg for their "research." Why,G prithee, doesn't it make sense to spend $50M or so on a port that couldE1 drive $1B or more in high-margin sales per annum?l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:37:51 GMTn1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>n< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished? Message-ID: <3VLJ8.161958$Po6.334782@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>t  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KIDRJECGKS96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...-@ > > http://domino.metagroup.com/bios98a.nsf/analyst/rakesh_kumar >gJ > Interesting tidbit: "Prior to joining META Group in January 1999, he wasE > EMEA marketing manager for Hewlett Packard's commercial Unix and NTdH > business.  Prior to that, Mr. Kumar held various positions with IBM inH > code development, sales and consultancy operations management, and its! > software business development."g  K Ah.A VMS Expert. Wonder if he's related to Ashok Kumar, big-time HPQ-bashero at Piper Jaffrey Bankcorp?   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 08:14:56 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205310714.6d5aaa96@posting.google.com>   e Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<uuiefu4th5301ak8odnof6eqdvrbka4n6s@4ax.com>...iE > According to this week's UK "Computer Weekly" (circulation close tooC > infinite it sometime appears), "Analyst Meta Group Vice PresidentaE > Rakesh Kumar (says the VMS port to Itanium) is not going to happen"  > E > Article appears on page 8 of the print edition and at the followingi > URL in the onlne edition > http://www.cw360.com/bin/bladerunner?REQUNIQ=1022839628&REQSESS=P4245IEE4&REQHOST=site1&2131REQEVENT=&CFLAV=1&CCAT=-99999&CCHAN=-99999&CARTI=112929  >  > B > Analyst Meta Group vice-president Rakesh Kumar said, "The simpleE > answer is for HP to tell its customers when it is going to kill off H > Alpha and how they can migrate to HP-UX. To migrate OpenVMS to Itanium@ > doesn't make sense and we believe it is not going to happen."  > F > If the URL wraps or is just screwed up enter "kumar" into the search! > box at www.computerweekly.co.uk: > H > I trust someone from Compaq will contact both Computer Weekly and Meta > Group to put them right... > D > But then maybe they just believe Michael "eviscerate" Capellas andG > ignore anything the VMS group says.  After all it really doesn't makeiF > sense to create something you intend to help Bill Gates destroy doesE > it? That couldn't be where all these analysts get their funny ideas $ > from could it? Nah too obvious :-( > G > Perhaps Marcello and Gorham could make repititions of Capellas (errm)n! > "blunders" a resignation issue.S  A this guy obviously doesn't understand the vms market and customer9A base, not to mention the os ... he seems to think too that vms isK9 just another flavor of unix ... another moron analyst ...o  F Bill Todd should find this interesting, clipped from the same article.  D "However, Intel, which entered a joint development programme for theF Alpha chip with Compaq, has announced that it plans to use some of theD Alpha technology in future Itanium releases. It may not be so much a@ case of Alphaservers looking like Intel servers as the other way around."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:51:36 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished8 Message-ID: <v73ffu4qsentidq2v85fa4hgp9qsnf9hde@4ax.com>  1 On Fri, 31 May 2002 14:06:16 GMT, "Sue Skonetski"e# <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:r     >Make up your own mind.:   Sue,    E I can make up my own mind but the CIO of a Fortune 500 company (and I B work for one) does not read Sue Skonetski's newsgroup postings. He) does read Gartner and the other analysts.:  - Perhaps VMS just doesn't pay them enough. :-(a  ? Yes, I have given very upbeat presentations to our worldwide ITd% Executive Council in case you wonder.m -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:31:47 GMTi1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished/ Message-ID: <DHMJ8.130971$L76.215852@rwcrnsc53>c  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagem7 news:d7791aa1.0205310714.6d5aaa96@posting.google.com... 2 > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 news:<uuiefu4th5301ak8odnof6eqdvrbka4n6s@4ax.com>...G > > According to this week's UK "Computer Weekly" (circulation close torE > > infinite it sometime appears), "Analyst Meta Group Vice PresidentAG > > Rakesh Kumar (says the VMS port to Itanium) is not going to happen"9 > >@G > > Article appears on page 8 of the print edition and at the followingn > > URL in the onlne edition > >mL http://www.cw360.com/bin/bladerunner?REQUNIQ=1022839628&REQSESS=P4245IEE4&REG QHOST=site1&2131REQEVENT=&CFLAV=1&CCAT=-99999&CCHAN=-99999&CARTI=112929  > >o > > D > > Analyst Meta Group vice-president Rakesh Kumar said, "The simpleG > > answer is for HP to tell its customers when it is going to kill offoJ > > Alpha and how they can migrate to HP-UX. To migrate OpenVMS to ItaniumA > > doesn't make sense and we believe it is not going to happen."h > >DH > > If the URL wraps or is just screwed up enter "kumar" into the search# > > box at www.computerweekly.co.uks > >uJ > > I trust someone from Compaq will contact both Computer Weekly and Meta > > Group to put them right...  D I don't. That is the problem. HPQ is "scared" of the overpaid ArmaniI Analysts. It is about time that HPQ stops feeding the hand that bites it,t= takes off the gloves, and discredits the pompous bloviatiors.n  K As an HPQ stockholder I demand this. Other stockholders should make similarnI demands. This "analyst" codswallop is getting a bit tedious, is it not???d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:05:15 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>u< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished8 Message-ID: <6r3ffuop2v2viiv1k3jsg8kkf0dpg6tnkk@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 31 May 2002 14:29:55 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   > A >http://www.esasystems.es/eventos/presentacion%20Meta%20Group.ppt  >2E >Look through it, and perhaps you'll start to realise just where he'sA
 >coming from.s  D "Windows will rule the datacentre by 2010" it says on one slide. NowC that quote could have come straight from Capellas. So does CapellaseB take his lead from the analysts or do the analysts take their lead" from the likes of Compaq, HP etc?    >6A >One snippet: Bearing in mind this presentation is dated 2001, he G >MENTIONS OS/2 as being important on the desktop for administration andt >management! (Slide 18).  F It's a presentation slated towards those running IBM kit whch is why I# guess he put in the OS/2 reference.o  D >(I'd put more exclamations point in but Hoff's complained about the >shortage already :-))   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:39:52 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>y< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished+ Message-ID: <3CF79948.168A7AB5@caltech.edu>i   Alan Greig wrote:o  B > Analyst Meta Group vice-president Rakesh Kumar said, "The simpleE > answer is for HP to tell its customers when it is going to kill offm* > Alpha and how they can migrate to HP-UX.    ? Simpleton answer maybe.  If HP pushes the issue they will drivehB these extremely lucrative customers directly into the waiting arms of IBM and Sun.o   >To migrate OpenVMS to Itanium? > doesn't make sense and we believe it is not going to happen."p  6 Got to agree there but for different reasons.  The way3 I see it HPQ is nuts not to keep taking the OpenVMSp8 customers' money and if HPQ can't make a profit doing so9 then they have no business being in business.  That said,p: it looks more and more like HPQ picked the wrong horse and; that the next real industry standard is going to be Opteronh6 and not Godotium.  So after all the noise about moving6 to an industry standard processor what HPQ will really9 deliver is yet another low volume high cost solution like46 Alpha or PA-RISC.  Except this time they'll have given7 Intel a license for extortion since HPQ will be utterlyf9 dependent upon Intel for Itaniums.  The way the winds ares> blowing it may well turn out that HPQ is Intel's only customer
 for that CPU.s  7 Here's my fearless prediction - Microsoft will announceh9 within 6 months after Opteron's release that it will only ; support Windows64 on Opteron.  I make this prediction basedT: on the observation that Microsoft has never supported any 8 version of Windows on multiple platforms for very long -8 Microsoft  picks a winner and concentrates its resources3 there.  And Microsoft and AMD have been exceedingly  chummy of late.e  ? Hopefully HPQ has planning in place to handle this contingency.    But I doubt it.e   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:00:28 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finishedI Message-ID: <M_NJ8.162916$t8_.94188@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0205310714.6d5aaa96@posting.google.com...d > C > this guy obviously doesn't understand the vms market and customern$ > base, not to mention the os ......    &  He doesn't have to, though he should.  L This is nothing different than the salesperson from the local electricity orL gas direct marketer coming door-to-door telling you that he has a great dealH for you. You won't know whether he's telling the truth or not unless youH compare the real details of his offer vs. what you currently pay and are5 likely to pay under your current billing preferences.h  C In the case of Gartner et. al., I mean corporate executives who areeA sufficiently educated and curious enough and take their corporateBL responsibilities seriously enough to call the analyst's bluff. UnfortunatelyC too many of execs are swayed too easily by primo seats at football,rJ basketball, hockey games, or pit passes to F1 events, or golf junkets laid/ on in the form of 'Armani analyst' conferences.p   It's enough to make you puke.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:38:26 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished? Message-ID: <myOJ8.163762$Po6.335539@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>-  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:M_NJ8.162916$t8_.94188@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...R >A7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageD9 > news:d7791aa1.0205310714.6d5aaa96@posting.google.com...  > > E > > this guy obviously doesn't understand the vms market and customern& > > base, not to mention the os ...... >o >i( >  He doesn't have to, though he should. >gK > This is nothing different than the salesperson from the local electricity  orI > gas direct marketer coming door-to-door telling you that he has a greats dealJ > for you. You won't know whether he's telling the truth or not unless youJ > compare the real details of his offer vs. what you currently pay and are7 > likely to pay under your current billing preferences.  >rE > In the case of Gartner et. al., I mean corporate executives who areiC > sufficiently educated and curious enough and take their corporate @ > responsibilities seriously enough to call the analyst's bluff.
 UnfortunatelylE > too many of execs are swayed too easily by primo seats at football,)L > basketball, hockey games, or pit passes to F1 events, or golf junkets laid1 > on in the form of 'Armani analyst' conferences.  >2 > It's enough to make you puke.s >   G I think it's a bit different than that. First, all Armani Analysts havenI sales quotas. Hence they have to spend as much time selling as analyzing. L It's sad to see 'em at vendor briefings. They sit their in their suits, lookE holier than thou, take no notes (they don't need to, they know it allnJ already!), but at each and every break they sidle up to the vendor speakerK and say something to the effect of "great speech... you should know that wefK are about to launch an Important Multiclient Study, yadda yadda yadda, thattL you REALLY need to participate (e.g. belly up to the bar with the big bucks) in.   B Second, Corporate America has been gulled. "Gee, I paid $50K for a> subscription to this research, hence it MUST BE RIGHT!" Doh...  I This is not a blanket indictment of all analysts. Brad Day is good. So isaK Richard Fichera. So are the folks at Illuminata and, generally speaking, DHl> Brown. IDC seems to put out some pretty good research as well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:35:43 -0400f From: G Everhart <ge@gce.com>  Subject: backup/physical& Message-ID: <3CF7A65F.2010502@gce.com>  E Actually my old app (see cmphighc.zip on sigtapes) allows among other B things one to mount a tape containing a back/phys saveset and haveF VMS treat it as a readonly disk. This allows one to extract files. TheD app checks the CRCs in blocks and will use xor blocks to reconstructA bad blocks if it encounters them and can read the entier xor set.EI (It will not handle xor sets bigger than 100 blocks...had to have a limita somewhere.)r  B It's a bit of a nuisance to set up...not fully idiot proofed...butB it does work. (caveat: I've noticed that the extended cache systemC in 7.3+, the one VMS recommends you turn off, does not handle splitaG I/O properly with this driver, at least on write. Won't bother you withjD read but there may be circumstances where it fails also on read with; that code running. Use VIOC or no cache and all's well....)t   Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 06:44:42 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>h; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) 6 Message-ID: <20020531064442.18201.qmail@gacracker.org>  C On Thu, 30 May 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >"Doc.Cypher" wrote:L >> I really hate when these stupid a**holes decide to use remailers for this% >> sort of ignorant abusive stuff. :(r >g >iL >The person responsible for this remailer is "out of town" (how convenient). >aO >I have sent him a nasty complaint, and also suggested that if he wishes to run:J >an anonymous posting service, his software should strip out the From: andM >Reply_to: fields to ensure anonymity and that nobody can impersonate anyone.c  I It is perfectly possible to forge from lines without using remailers. Had K your attacker used an open proxy and open mail relay he could have achievedeK the same result and been just as difficult for you to trace. Such a forgeryrC would also be more difficult to notice as it would not have the bige# remailer disclaimer in the headers.r  G As to sending a "nasty complaint", don't you think that is likely to betK counter-productive? If you want the remailer operator on your side it wouldy8 have been better to keep a civil tone to what you wrote.     Doc. -- h6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netH   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 07:51:06 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) 3 Message-ID: <VqacSIa$Mo8Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>4  a In article <RQugZUf9y7iY@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:c > @ > 	There isn't a "Right to Privacy".  There are as you point outB > 	amendments to protect against "unreasonable" search and seizureA > 	and that has ebbed and flowed over the years.  Watch courts beeC > 	very broad in interpretting "reasonable" from a law enforcement iE > 	standpoint post-9/11.  In other words, "unreasonable" will become r
 > 	more sane.u  F    Guess again.  The Supreeme Court recognized a "Right to Privacy" inF    the Roe v. Wade decision.  Which means it's legally there until the9    constitution is changed to specifically say otherwise.   K    And it exists whether a government wants to legally recognize it or not.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:24:52 -0400p5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>r; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)s2 Message-ID: <EWn3PDnVmlaBTpnt1PuptFQnrRMo@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 30 May 2002 20:52:44 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >t9 >"Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in messagec. >news:w7u8H9ms8Yko@eisner.encompasserve.org...I >> In article <9%vJ8.76244$%o.6959753@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Billn' >Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:b >> >= >> > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in messagee2 >> > news:RQugZUf9y7iY@eisner.encompasserve.org... >> > >> > ... >> >' >> >> There isn't a "Right to Privacy".t >> > >> > Just because you say so?  >> >>      No.a > J >Proving a negative is notoriously difficult, but since you seem to assert >you can:  do so.f >' >> >> > Well, I say there is. >>H >>      You "say", but of course you can't prove it.  As no such "right" >exists. >yL >I say I have that right.  And it's one of the very things I'd be willing toL >take up a gun to enforce if I couldn't do so otherwise.  Anyone who doesn'tH >like that attitude is encouraged to shove it up his Fascist butt:  yourK >right to feel 'protected' by Uncle Sam stops at the edge of my right to be J >protected *from* Uncle Sam, which is *exactly* what the Bill of Rights isI >all about (including its specific reference to other rights beyond thoset >explicitly enumerated). >t >- bill  >p >   F     Thanks, Bill.  That was my point by bringing up the 9th Amendment,  0 which states that not all rights are enumerated.  A     The United States was founded on the idea that the individual&E is sovereign and has rights based on his nature.  Therefore, the role 9 of government is not to grant rights, but to secure them.i  E     Properly defined rights are termed "negative" rights, in that allf; individuals have those rights, having those rights does notn? prevent anyone else from having that right, and does not imposen> a burden on anyone else, except for the respect of that right.< Rights in that context include self-ownership, self-defense,9 freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom from t self-incrimination.    David R. Beattyi   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:39:16 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d! Subject: Re: Caculator within DCLe; Message-ID: <01KIDHWF0ICI984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>c   > Then there's perl. >  > $ perl -e print(2*2+1) > 5  > $m  # At that level, there is DCL itself:e   $ write sys$output 2*2+1 5  $e   :-)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:49:16 -0400v1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>e! Subject: Re: Caculator within DCL 2 Message-ID: <3CF7714B.FC8E2595@firstdbasource.com>   Phillip Helbig wrote:o >  > > Then there's perl. > >u > > $ perl -e print(2*2+1) > > 5r > > $s > % > At that level, there is DCL itself:r >  > $ write sys$output 2*2+1 > 5t > $l >  > :-)t   unfortunately you can't use   $> write sys$output 40393200*512
 -793518080D you get some very strange looking numbers and definately no floating point." $> write sys$output 40393.324*5.32G %DCL-W-IVOPER, unrecognized operator in expression - check spelling and: syntax  \.324\m   But this works $> type calc.pl; $perl -e print('p1') $> calc := @calc.plw $> calc 40393200*512 20681318400f   or even: $> calc 40393.324*5.32 214892.48368   -- 2 Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163e7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comu Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)5 704-236-4377 (Mobile)k   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 04:25:45 -07006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft)B Subject: Can anyone please explain this strange DECnet behaviour ?= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0205310325.1441756d@posting.google.com>o   Hi,   C I had a system NODEA (1.61) which I migrated to a new OpenVMS Alpha:D with the same node name and address, and disconnected NODEA from the+ network. At this point everything was fine.   B I then renamed the old NODEA to NODEB (1.100)( with NET$CONFIGURE,B SYSGEN parameters, and DECnet_Register), and reconnected it to the@ network. The system started up with no problems, and no reported errors.t   BUT from NODEB if I do a 5
 $ SET HOST 61v* It goes to the new NODEA which is correct.   $ SET HOST 100
 Goes to NODEBu   $ SET HOST NODEA Goes to the new NODEAa   $ SET HOST NODEB2 Goes to the new NODEA, and I can't understand why.1 I have rebooted a number of times with no effect.@  1 Then it just suddenly started working correctly. a  ? Any clarification would be welcome. I am using DECnet/OSI v7.3.w   Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 06:06:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)29 Subject: Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?e3 Message-ID: <09femw7cUnl8@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  [ In article <3CF6CE99.22DB193C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  y >> In article <58ba0101.0205300230.4ab6fe24@posting.google.com>, andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft) writes:a >> > Hi, >> >J >> > I have 2 separate ethernet networks connected via and OpenVMS system.J >> > The networks run DECnet Phase IV. The neworks are currently connectedK >> > via a VAX acting as a router. I want to be able to control which nodesnI >> > on network A can see, and communicate with which nodes on network B.a  >> > Is there a way to do this ? >> p> >> There are DECnet Phase IV controls on each node to do that, >  > There are? Care to elucidate?   ) 	MCR NCP SET EXECUTOR DEFAULT ACCESS NONE $ 	MCR NCP SET NODE <name> ACCESS BOTH) 	MCR NCP SET NODE <othername> ACCESS BOTHa  F That may not address the original poster's question about _visibility_< of the nodes, but access control seems more important to me.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:53:36 +0000:! From: t202 <t202@altavista.co.uk>2/ Subject: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)/* Message-ID: <oOGJ8.3287$VP6.288314@stones>  K Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to a n( different one, using standard UCX stack.   Thanks."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:24:20 +0200a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 3 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)q& Message-ID: <3CF74144.9DD87E7@aaa.com>  - The telnet listener is on port 23 and, no, I N don't know how to change it.  ? (The http server (if any) is listening (as default) on port 80)    Jan-Erik Sderholm.t     t202 wrote:r > L > Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to a* > different one, using standard UCX stack. > 	 > Thanks.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:27:58 +0100 , From: "Rainer Giese" <waste.not@welcome.net>3 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)a5 Message-ID: <ad7fmu$uso8a$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>9  4 "t202" <t202@altavista.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag$ news:oOGJ8.3287$VP6.288314@stones...L > Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to a* > different one, using standard UCX stack.  ; Though the default port of TELNET is 23, not 80, try this :h  $ UCX SET SERVICE TELNET /PORT=n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:36:14 +0000o! From: t202 <t202@altavista.co.uk> 3 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)o) Message-ID: <vwHJ8.2112$xU5.256826@wards>f   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:e  . > The telnet listener is on port 23 and, no, I > don't know how to change it. > A > (The http server (if any) is listening (as default) on port 80)  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  >  > 
 > t202 wrote:d >> wK >> Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to - >> a different one, using standard UCX stack.  >> g
 >> Thanks.  H Sorry, I meant port 23, been working with XML this morning, port 80 now  hard wired into my head :=)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:34:55 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e3 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)r8 Message-ID: <rjgefusn1k6t3qls0e8efe15ecmqgt7br6@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 31 May 2002 09:53:36 +0000, t202 <t202@altavista.co.uk> wrote:  L >Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to a ) >different one, using standard UCX stack.o  C The default port for inbound telnet is 23 not 80. 80 is the defaulte HTTP web port.  E Unless it has ben added very recently there is no supported way to docB this but I'm fairly sure someone posted that they searched for the> decimal value "23" in the executable and found the appropriate location to patch.     >Thanks.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:13:44 +0000-! From: t202 <t202@altavista.co.uk>23 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX) ) Message-ID: <F3IJ8.2120$xU5.257729@wards>w   Alan Greig wrote:s  H > On Fri, 31 May 2002 09:53:36 +0000, t202 <t202@altavista.co.uk> wrote: > L >>Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to a* >>different one, using standard UCX stack. > E > The default port for inbound telnet is 23 not 80. 80 is the defaultm > HTTP web port. > G > Unless it has ben added very recently there is no supported way to dohD > this but I'm fairly sure someone posted that they searched for the@ > decimal value "23" in the executable and found the appropriate > location to patch. > 	 >>Thanks.t >  > -- > Alan  I I did mean port 23 (been working with XML, so 80 in my head), I've had a dG quick search through the posts but can't find anything related, do you s recall what the subject was ?r   Thanks.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:41:47 +0100p% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>g3 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)y8 Message-ID: <4gkefu8inieu5qj2nvumfs24dn1kifmhm0@4ax.com>  2 On Fri, 31 May 2002 11:27:58 +0100, "Rainer Giese" <waste.not@welcome.net> wrote:   >o5 >"t202" <t202@altavista.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitragm% >news:oOGJ8.3287$VP6.288314@stones...-M >> Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to ar+ >> different one, using standard UCX stack.a >t< >Though the default port of TELNET is 23, not 80, try this :! >$ UCX SET SERVICE TELNET /PORT=n-  C This hasn't worked in the past unless it has recently been changed.8@ The value is hardcoded. I agree the above command *should* work.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:25:20 +0000.! From: t202 <t202@altavista.co.uk>o3 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)e* Message-ID: <F0JJ8.3306$VP6.289894@stones>   Alan Greig wrote:   4 > On Fri, 31 May 2002 11:27:58 +0100, "Rainer Giese"  > <waste.not@welcome.net> wrote: >  >>6 >>"t202" <t202@altavista.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag& >>news:oOGJ8.3287$VP6.288314@stones...L >>> Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to. >>> a different one, using standard UCX stack. >>= >>Though the default port of TELNET is 23, not 80, try this :i" >>$ UCX SET SERVICE TELNET /PORT=n > E > This hasn't worked in the past unless it has recently been changed.uB > The value is hardcoded. I agree the above command *should* work. >  >  > -- > Alan  L Some little server program to listen on another port and pass connection to L telnet/login would be nice, any idea if one's been written for this purpose  ?F   T.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:17:14 +0200 2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>3 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)nG Message-ID: <3cf75b9f$0$36448$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>   4 "t202" <t202@altavista.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag$ news:oOGJ8.3287$VP6.288314@stones...L > Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to a* > different one, using standard UCX stack. >t	 > Thanks.r   Hi!r  K I tried this a couple of weeks ago. It's not that easy to do it on the fly. J I ended up with deleting the service (SET NOSERVICE TELNET) and extractingD and editing the part from TCPIP$CONFIG where it creates the service.9 I executed this new command-procedure and it worked fine..   Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:11:08 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t3 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)i8 Message-ID: <bhmefu0243758p5vob3im5fsf7k1hpbhtk@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 31 May 2002 11:13:44 +0000, t202 <t202@altavista.co.uk> wrote:   >-J >I did mean port 23 (been working with XML, so 80 in my head), I've had a H >quick search through the posts but can't find anything related, do you  >recall what the subject was ?  F Not immediately off-hand and a quick search ddn't find it. Fairly sure& it was discussed at some point though.   >n >Thanks.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:28:42 +0000C! From: t202 <t202@altavista.co.uk> 3 Subject: Re: Changing the default Telnet port (UCX)c) Message-ID: <IOLJ8.2148$xU5.259489@wards>h   Ren Schelbaum wrote:n   > 6 > "t202" <t202@altavista.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag& > news:oOGJ8.3287$VP6.288314@stones...K >> Can anyone tell me how to change the listener port for telnet from 80 to - >> a different one, using standard UCX stack.n >>
 >> Thanks. >  > Hi!a > H > I tried this a couple of weeks ago. It's not that easy to do it on theF > fly. I ended up with deleting the service (SET NOSERVICE TELNET) andH > extracting and editing the part from TCPIP$CONFIG where it creates theD > service. I executed this new command-procedure and it worked fine. >  > Ren  $ Ok, thanks alot, I'll give it a try.   T.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 10:37:58 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)B Subject: China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205310937.1df2b150@posting.google.com>h  ; if you are not on VMS, this should scare you, esp. the lastf. paragraph for all you freebie os promoters ...     Chinese preparingr new cyber-attackst0 U.S. defense, civilian computer networks at risk  P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: May 31, 2002 1:00 a.m. EasternF   By Jon Dougherty  2002 WorldNetDaily.com    = The Chinese military is preparing to launch new "exploratory"bE cyber-attacks against U.S. defense and civilian computer networks anddD systems as part of Beijing's continuing efforts to level the playingF field against the American military, according to a noted intelligence	 bulletin.o  ; Quoting Asian sources, the China Reform Monitor, or CRM  adE publication of the American Foreign Policy Council reported Wednesdayy= that the attacks are scheduled to take place in early summer.   @ The publication said separate warnings came from the CIA and theB Institute for Strategic Studies, which is run by the U.S. Army War College.  C The latter "released a classified report on the subject as an early = warning to the Defense Department, warning U.S. diplomats and-? law-enforcement agencies to be vigilant for attempts by ChineseeB student hackers to spread computer viruses to sensitive government; Internet sites sometime in early summer," the CRM reported.r  @ CIA officials told WND they could not comment on the informationD contained in the CRM report. But other China experts have said for aF few years that a "fear" of U.S. conventional military might is causing? the People's Liberation Army to press Chinese high-tech weapons F developers to create such technologies and get them fielded as soon as= possible. And in the meantime, they say, Chinese hackers have.F attempted to "test" U.S. computer systems, sometimes as a result of an international incident.o  F "Three years ago, Chinese anger spilled into cyberspace to protest theA bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade," said the CRM report. E "Only a year ago, a successful Chinese cyber [attack] knocked out theaA White House's website for almost four hours. In addition, Chinese-0 hackers defaced more than 660 sites in the U.S."  A "China-loyal hackers defaced almost 1,000 websites and launched akD distributed denial-of-service attack against the White House and CIA@ during April 28-May 8, 2001," added iDefense, a private-industry intelligence firm.  @ "Three hacker groups participated in the cyber assault while the@ Chinese government, at the very least, looked the other way: the@ Hacker Union of China, China Eagle and the Green Army Corps. The? Hacker Union of China, also known as Honker Union of China, was"? credited with about half of the defacements," said the iDefensew	 analysis.7  D WorldNetDaily reported in March that the U.S. is also working on the< development of cyber-warfare capabilities. But officials are* tight-lipped about current U.S. abilities.  B "There is not too much I can say about what the government does toF protect its computer systems other than assure you of the fact that weD have very extensive programs to protect our computer systems," StateA Department spokesman Richard Boucher said at a briefing in April.   @ "We have a very active program that tries to ensure at any givenC moment that we have security," he said. But at the same time, "it'stB one that is constantly preparing itself for any threats that might exist."   @ David Isenberg, a senior analyst at Intellibridge Corporation, aE knowledge management and intelligence services firm, says he believestD U.S. systems are vulnerable, but isn't sure of China's capabilities.  C "Has China actually created offensive programs, who knows?" he toldm3 WorldNetDaily. "I'm sure they do research into it."e  B But Richard Fisher, a senior fellow at The Jamestown Foundation, aF non-partisan think tank focusing on Russia and China, believes Beijing> is attempting to rapidly improve its cyber-warfare techniques.  D "It's pretty scary," he told WND. "Both reports warn us that the PLA: is rapidly building a competent cyber-warfare capability."  B He said China's huge population means "lots of brains" can work on improving its capabilities.p  C "I think we should prepare for substantial attacks against militaryw> and key civilian networks in the event of a PLA strike against Taiwan," Fisher said.f  A "No matter how much we try to make our systems secure, there will-A always be the possibility of strikes," especially from within, heb added.  ? He said because of contractors who tend to use low-bid labor toe? service defense computers and those of private businesses, U.S. E systems will be at risk of internal sabotage from operatives loyal toa China.  A "How many times all over the world are our vital computer systems 3 being upgraded by the lowest-cost bidder?" he said.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:56:12 GMTu1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>7F Subject: Re: China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye!= Message-ID: <0POJ8.67770$ux5.82707@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>s  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messaget7 news:d7791aa1.0205310937.1df2b150@posting.google.com...l= > if you are not on VMS, this should scare you, esp. the last 0 > paragraph for all you freebie os promoters ... >e  H Why would our "Strategic Partner" (Clinton's words, not mine) want to do this?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:16:33 -0500h& From: "JR McKenzie" <mrjr@airmail.net> Subject: Console graphics reset>O Message-ID: <7C3FA29412411A82.C768E136A0F99735.3D70CD3CB998F619@lp.airnews.net>8  I How do you get the console back into graphics mode after it has switch toeF character cell and is no longer functional? There used to be a control/ sequence if I remember right....senior moments.k any help would be appreciated.   jrma   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 08:58:12 -0700" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)% Subject: Creating ACEs from a programh= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0205310758.2c7db7ce@posting.google.com>g  F Trying to create an ACE entry on a file from a program (and not pass aC DCL SET SEC command through LIB$SPAWN). Looking at the fine manuals C and I'm thinking some calls to $PARSE_ACL, $SET_SECURITY, and mayben $FORMAT_ACL are in order.O  ; Must admit I'm finding the fine manuals a bit obtuse on the_E descriptions of these services (and how ever they decided to list thetA "related services" sections). Anyway... did a search on Google...a= found a few dozen posts from others complaining about how the A documentation on the above services is... a bit obtuse. Found oneeA (post) from Hoff about an example that he had posted to c.o.v (?)dD going back about 5 years but couldn't find it in Google... Found oneD post from Arne to some FTP examples (C, Pascal, FORTRAN) that hinted@ they might be relavent but the link was broken and didn't see an7 "examples" section (of any kind) at his current site...0  F Anyone out there willing to share a simple example? Say something that creates something like:l  $ (IDENTIFIER=INTERACTIVE,ACCESS=READ)  # on something like SYS$LOGIN:FOO.LISa   TIA< joeE   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:12:54 GMT 3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)0" Subject: Re: Curious error message/ Message-ID: <q6AJ8.15$xB2.69@news-srv1.fmr.com>R   RABBIT::SY18889 $ EXIT 2932>- %SYSTEM-F-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eelse RABBIT::SY18889 $S  
 (Alpha, V7.3)e  S In article <3CF6CB50.1F8D64DD@earthlink.net>, ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> writes:n >s >r >"Kenneth H. Fairfield" wrote: >> h
 >> DXP wrote:> >> e >> > Greetings...d >> >) >> > Have you ever tried the following...> >> > >> > $ EXIT 2932 >> >G >> > (Although I'm at a loss as to know why anyone would have had to to 
 >> > this) >> >6 >> > Anyway, would anyone care to comment on what this) >> > cryptic/philisophical message means?  >> NI >>     I'm curious as to which hardware & software version gives anythingo9 >> other than, %SYSTEM-F-NOMSG, Message number 00000B74 ?s >> rH >>     I get this on Alpha/VMS 7.2-1 and VAX/VMS 7.1 systems.  No Easter >> Eggs, no fun. >> 3 >>     -Kenm >2E >Ditto, would someone be so kind as to post the message in question. U >/ >-- Aaron Sliwinski3 Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"- "Lose the MAPS"-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:46:56 -0400-* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>" Subject: RE: Curious error message- Message-ID: <0033000066239162000002L022*@MHS>   < =0AEaster Eggs are not a concept that originated in Redmond.! Ditto just about everything else.(   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET $ Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 5:45 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET" Subject: RE: Curious error message    F I hate to see disk space and memory resources wasted with Easter Eggs. It is unprofessional.aH I hope that someone from the OpenVMS team removes that feature from ver= sion 7.3.  H I am a devoted Python fan and I have a sense of humor; but I am not amu= sed.  6 Micro$oft Easter eggs started a bad programming trend.H Did the problems start with Micro$oft or did other some other major o/s=    or application start that trend?   Jim Strehlow, Alameda, CA, USAH My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinion of my management etc= .     / "DXP" <daveparboo@hotmail.com> wrote in message07 news:819f1cc4.0205300035.5e338859@posting.google.com...u > Greetings... > & > Have you ever tried the following... > 
 > $ EXIT 2932. >8D > (Although I'm at a loss as to know why anyone would have had to to > this)  >,3 > Anyway, would anyone care to comment on what thist& > cryptic/philisophical message means? >  > Many thanks in a dance >S > Dave=    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:28:22 +0000 (UTC)p From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk" Subject: RE: Curious error message* Message-ID: <ad81a6$i2$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>  Z In article <0033000066239162000002L022*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:= >=0AEaster Eggs are not a concept that originated in Redmond.0" >Ditto just about everything else. >n >WWWebbj  H However there is a vast difference between embedding quirky messages andL embedding whole applications. Were Microsoft's easter egg applications fullyE tested before release ? Before January 2000 were they checked for Y2kt compliance ?  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University         >  >-----Original Message----- 0 >From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET% >Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 5:45 PM C >To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETh# >Subject: RE: Curious error messageu >2 >iG >I hate to see disk space and memory resources wasted with Easter Eggs.k >It is unprofessional.I >I hope that someone from the OpenVMS team removes that feature from ver=2 >sion2 >7.3.s >cI >I am a devoted Python fan and I have a sense of humor; but I am not amu=F >sed.2 >U7 >Micro$oft Easter eggs started a bad programming trend.yI >Did the problems start with Micro$oft or did other some other major o/s=t > ! >or application start that trend?f >t >Jim Strehlow, Alameda, CA, USAnI >My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinion of my management etc=2 >..  >  >i0 >"DXP" <daveparboo@hotmail.com> wrote in message8 >news:819f1cc4.0205300035.5e338859@posting.google.com... >> Greetings...m >>' >> Have you ever tried the following...d >> >> $ EXIT 2932 >>E >> (Although I'm at a loss as to know why anyone would have had to to. >> this) >>4 >> Anyway, would anyone care to comment on what this' >> cryptic/philisophical message means?a >> >> Many thanks in a dances >> >> Dave=   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:28:18 GMTu0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)" Subject: Re: Curious error message9 Message-ID: <3cf7b352.4228401590@proxy.news.easynews.com>e  A It's a literary (?) reference to the Hungarian Phrase-book Sketchm0 from the Monty Python's Flying Circus TV series.  B On 30 May 2002 01:35:17 -0700, daveparboo@hotmail.com (DXP) wrote:  
 >Greetings...s >i% >Have you ever tried the following...6 >8
 >$ EXIT 2932   >CC >(Although I'm at a loss as to know why anyone would have had to tot >this) >f2 >Anyway, would anyone care to comment on what this% >cryptic/philisophical message means?0 >r >Many thanks in a danceI >T >DaveP  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:29:13 GMTv. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER): Subject: Re: does Digital Networks not want any business??3 Message-ID: <JnHJ8.34125$305.445433@news.chello.at>R  P In article <00A0E67E.013974B5@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:D >I've been trying to contact DNPG about some equipment price quotes. > C >Sales@ and every email address from prior conversations with folksvE >at DNPG have been rejected by their mail handler.  Does anybody here.C >have an address that will get me in contact with somebody at DNPG?   O Alan Boyles asked me to post this info for you because he can't post directly::t  A contact digital networks at www.digitalnetworks.net or try DennisT) Majikas @ DN whose contact info is below.a  . You can go through a reseller or deal directly with DN.    @ In Europe try Niall McGrane [niall.mcgrane@digitalnetworks.net.  +44(1256)855 601   ---------------------------- Dennis Majikas Pre-Sales Technical Supportw Digital Networks	 DNPG, LLC' 486 Amherst Street Nashua, NH 03063-1224  Main Number: +1 603.589.0300 Toll Free: +1 877-341-9594 Tel: +1 603.589.0324 Cell: +1 978.239.9610e Email: majikas@dnpg.comu Web: www.dnpg.com    -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERs% Network and OpenVMS system specialistr E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:26:22 -0400 0 From: "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com>: Subject: Re: does Digital Networks not want any business??/ Message-ID: <uff8qtcsisin42@corp.supernews.com>   C Well I now have the ability to post messages, finally got the rightc combination, thanks Peter.K I have made the guys at DNPG aware of this newsgroup so hopefully they willrI be posting as well, though if you  have any questions about DN contact mea3 and I'll be glad to answer or find someone who can.g   Alan; "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> wrote in message ( news:uf5g9ep32p548@corp.supernews.com...: > Digital Networks is alive and well and can be reached at/ > www.digitalnetworks.net or try Dennis MajikasdE > dennis.majikas@digitalnetworks.net or dmajikas@dnpg.com if you needq someonec3 > in Europe try David Hindle at dhindle@dnpg.com ordJ > david.hindle@digitalnetworks.net for sales and Mike Collins ( same email > setup ) for tech support.l >u) > They would LOVE to sell you some stuff.  >n > Alan, > <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message, > news:00A0E67E.013974B5@SendSpamHere.ORG...G > > I've been trying to contact DNPG about some equipment price quotes.n > >rF > > Sales@ and every email address from prior conversations with folksH > > at DNPG have been rejected by their mail handler.  Does anybody hereF > > have an address that will get me in contact with somebody at DNPG? > >i > > --6 > > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > >.8 > >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > >t >a >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 06:21:50 -0400I% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>g* Subject: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ?, Message-ID: <3CF74EBD.8E3CF8B9@videotron.ca>  1 I have a table of library files that were opened.s  K Before opening a new one (adding to the table), I must ensure that the fileMQ hasn't already been opened. But i want to make this more or less bullet proof eg:   : open_lib( "$disk4:[directory]library.tlb") returns success  L open_lib( "my_logical")  would do nothing and return "already opened" if "my0 logical" points to $disk4:[directory]library.tlb    N In DCL, I would use F$PARSE to get the full file specification, except for theN version number and compare it against a list of F$PARSED file names of library files I have already opened.  L What is the F$PARSE equivalent when doing this inside a C program ?  I don'tL really want to use SYS$OPEN since if the file is a new file, I will be usingL the LBR$ routines to access the text library. And I must make sure that I doR not open a more recent version of a library of an older version is already opened.  N Out of curiosity, is there a way to get the file-id easily from a file name orN logical name that points to a file name ? This way, i could trap two differentF file names pointing to the same physical file if one was an alias (SET
 FILE/ENTER ).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:27:36 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>h. Subject: Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ?& Message-ID: <3CF75018.7AA88BE@aaa.com>  > Se the $PARSE system service in the "OpenVMS Record Management Services Reference Manual on c  U http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/documentation/pdf/OVMS_73_REC_MAN_SERV.PDFr   Jan-Erik Sderholm.o     JF Mezei wrote:t >  > E > What is the F$PARSE equivalent when doing this inside a C program ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:53:09 -0400r6 From: "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>. Subject: Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ?4 Message-ID: <3CF77235.4030409@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>   JF Mezei wrote:e4  > I have a table of library files that were opened.   <snip>  F  > What is the F$PARSE equivalent when doing this inside a C program ?  D Parsing the filename requires an SYS$OPEN to do a DISPLAY operation.  G  > I don't really want to use SYS$OPEN since if the file is a new file,oF  > I will be using the LBR$ routines to access the text library. And IG  > must make sure that I do not open a more recent version of a libraryu)  > of an older version is already opened.u  D When you open the file, record the st_dev, and st_ino[3] values from* stat struct returned from the stat() call.  B The st_dev and st_ino[3] together will uniquely identify the file.  L Note that stat() is also doing a SYS$OPEN, it is just simplifying your code.  D  > Out of curiosity, is there a way to get the file-id easily from aE  > file name or logical name that points to a file name ? This way, ieD  > could trap two different file names pointing to the same physical.  > file if one was an alias (SET FILE/ENTER ).  G The file-id is contained in the st_ino[3] member of the stat structure.h  G The device name is needed as files on two different volumes could have   the same file-id.    -Johno! malmberg@dslwld.zko.dec.compaq.hpw Personal Opinion Onlyt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:27:33 GMTo9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>t. Subject: Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ?/ Message-ID: <3CF793E8.A4284702@eps.zko.dec.com>t   JF Mezei wrote:t  P > In DCL, I would use F$PARSE to get the full file specification, except for theP > version number and compare it against a list of F$PARSED file names of library > files I have already opened.  M I'd call SYS$SEARCH (preceeded by SSY$PARSE for wildcard/searchlist support).tT I'd use the File-ID, not the name to remember the file by. Of course that depends onR how you want your solution to react to an existing/opened file being renamed and a; new file with the exact same name being put 'in its place'..M I'd attach the device name from the NAM to the FID while requesting NOCONCEALN% such that say DKA0: == SYS$SYSDEVICE:oV Officially I should probably recommend sticking DEV into GETDVI and to use DEVLOCKNAM,> but that is over kill I suspect. (read up on GETDVI to check!)   Sample code attached.p Enjoy, Hein.w   #include rms #include stdio #include stringd   main(int argc, char *argv[]) {e2 int             status, sys$parse(), sys$search();8 char            expanded_name[256], resultand_name[256]; struct FAB      fab; struct NAM      nam;   if (argc < 2) {i     return 16;     } else {       fab = cc$rms_fab;l     fab.fab$l_fop = FAB$M_NAM;     fab.fab$l_dna = ".DAT";e*     fab.fab$b_dns = strlen(fab.fab$l_dna);     fab.fab$l_fna = argv[1];%     fab.fab$b_fns = strlen (argv[1]);      fab.fab$l_nam = &nam;"       nam = cc$rms_nam;h$     nam.nam$b_nop = NAM$M_NOCONCEAL;#     nam.nam$l_rsa = resultand_name;t     nam.nam$b_rss = 255;"     nam.nam$l_esa = expanded_name;     nam.nam$b_ess = 255;       status = sys$parse(&fab);p/     if (status & 1) status = sys$search (&fab); E     if (status & 1) printf ("%20.*s %04X %04X %04X\n", nam.nam$b_dev,oM         nam.nam$l_dev, nam.nam$w_fid[0], nam.nam$w_fid[1], nam.nam$w_fid[2]);      return status;     }m }T   ------------------------------   Date: 31 May 2002 11:04 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)y. Subject: Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ?- Message-ID: <31MAY200211043396@gerg.tamu.edu>n  : "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq> writes... }JF Mezei wrote:5 } > I have a table of library files that were opened.y }  }<snip>l } G } > What is the F$PARSE equivalent when doing this inside a C program ?S } E }Parsing the filename requires an SYS$OPEN to do a DISPLAY operation.- }-John   Nope.-  F You can parse a filename with SYS$PARSE (oddly enough). To find out if8 a file matches the specification you can use SYS$SEARCH.  A Doing the SYS$PARSE without the SYS$SEARCH is the equivalent of a8 "SYNTAX_ONLY" use of F$PARSE.b  F Adding in the SYS$SEARCH tells you if a file matches the specificationD (or be called repeatedly to list all matching specifications), which@ is more than F$PARSE does (which checks for the existance of theD directory, but not a file matching the spec). This is the equivalentG of an F$PARSE followed by an F$SEARCH (which really should not surpriseh anybody at this point).2  B There is an example program written in C in section 3.4 of the RMSC Reference Manual (for V7.2-1, anyhow) that shows a use of SYS$PARSEg and SYS$SEARCH.k   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 04:48:26 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>u& Subject: Format of record descriptions, Message-ID: <3CF738D3.64C19CB9@videotron.ca>  M I want to build a small database engine that accesses RMS files and gives theyK application field level access to records without the application having tonL know the exact details of the file structure or record structure, as well as- providing some record selection capabilities.h  H The goal is to eventually tie this to some forms to access the data, and= probably some scripting (or interface to either TPU or PERL).a  ( OK, now that introduction has been made:  L I want to have a text library with modules, each describing a "dataset". TheJ first types of "datasets" I will support are simple RMS indexed files with fixed length fields.  I So I need to define some sort of format to write those record descriptionm modules in.Y  N Can anyone point me to various examples of record layout definitions ? I couldG write my own, but having inspiration might give me interesting ideas onnF functionality. I am not thinking of COBOL type of stuff, but more lile database engine styleB  7 Is there an XML standard to describe fields in a file ?f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:15:33 -05001C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>r* Subject: Re: Format of record descriptionsH Message-ID: <craig.berry-8DF9A4.09153331052002@news.directvinternet.com>  , In article <3CF738D3.64C19CB9@videotron.ca>,'  JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote:n  O > I want to build a small database engine that accesses RMS files and gives themM > application field level access to records without the application having tocN > know the exact details of the file structure or record structure, as well as/ > providing some record selection capabilities.  > J > The goal is to eventually tie this to some forms to access the data, and? > probably some scripting (or interface to either TPU or PERL).i  D You may be interested in the VMS::IndexedFile Perl module.  I think : there is also an SMG interface.  These can be located via  <http://search.cpan.org>.m  9 > Is there an XML standard to describe fields in a file ?m  < The XML Schema standard may be what you want.  Read more at ! <http://www.w3.org/XML/Schema>.  0  F I'm not sure, though, why you don't simply use a real database engine.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 08:41:02 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>t; Subject: Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframe-6 Message-ID: <20020531084102.22756.qmail@gacracker.org>  ; On Thu, 30 May 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote:, >"Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote: >> T< >> This has no relevance to c.o.v.; please do not post here. >eM >Yes it has relevance. It would be absolutely great if HP were to provide thetN >same type of service so that anyone could sign up on-line and test drive VMS, >check out its help etc etc.   They do.    http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/     Doc. -- a6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netn   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 08:19:07 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: Free access to Linux for IBM zSeries mainframei= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205310719.7a0f718a@posting.google.com>m  v Johnathan Lighten <lighten74@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<FRvJ8.6542$RU2.747297947@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>...H > Here's a site that allows users to port their applications on zSeries A > mainframes.  Sign up for a dedicated system to get root access.n > ; > http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/testdrive/testdnew.html-  ; sorry, no linux for vms users here ... if IBM wants us as a 4 customer, then buy VMS from HP, otherwise, get lost!   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 06:42:45 -0700, From: bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron)7 Subject: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/Io= Message-ID: <b22333b7.0205310542.6f7ea347@posting.google.com>r  
 Hello all,  E Another question on integrating PL/I and C/C++ code. In my C++ modulek1 I declare an area of memory with a new statement.M   e.g.  ) int count = rows * cols * slice * blocks;r   int outptr = new int[count];  F This array is then populated with values from a matrix and passed backF (in the form of an address) to the PL/I code. The PL/I code takes thisB address and puts this into a pointer in a structure describing the array.  C My problem arises when the PL/I code tries to deallocate the memory.C associated with that address. PL/I has a based variable of the sametB dimensions as the array which was allocated (rows * cols * slice *F blocks) and then sets that based variable to point to the address (notB sure if im using the right terminology here, im not much of a PL/ID programmer) of my matrix array. When the FREE statement is called it@ generates a PL/I VIRMEMDEAL runtime error and kills the program.  E Is there something special that should be done either when allocating E my memory in C or deallocating it in PL/I to make this work properly?M   Thanks in advancee   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:50:41 +0000 (UTC)b- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)4; Subject: Re: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I . Message-ID: <ad864h$fpa$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron) writes in article <b22333b7.0205310542.6f7ea347@posting.google.com> dated 31 May 2002 06:42:45 -0700:F >Is there something special that should be done either when allocatingF >my memory in C or deallocating it in PL/I to make this work properly?  = Yes.  Have PL/I call a C function which in turn calls free().c  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgm> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:24:41 GMT 0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski); Subject: Re: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I 9 Message-ID: <3cf7b155.4227892237@proxy.news.easynews.com>o  E On 31 May 2002 06:42:45 -0700, bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron)  wrote:  F >Is there something special that should be done either when allocatingF >my memory in C or deallocating it in PL/I to make this work properly?  E Don't even try.  It won't work.  You must deallocate the memory using-? the deallocate routine corresponding to the routine you used tovD allocate it.  If you used malloc() to allocate, you must call free()@ to delete.  I don't know if the VMS C run-tmie library documentsB its RTL entry points for use from other languages.  If so, you may; be able to declare free() as DECC$FREE or something in your B PL/I code and call it directly.  By far your safest bet is to have@ your PL/I call a C routine, passing it the pointer, and have the C routine call free().  ? For memory allocated using a C++ new statement, you really haveg: no choice except to have your PL/I code call a C++ routine that performs a delete.r  7 If you can, I'd advise using LIB$GET_VM and LIB$FREE_VMe> to allocate and free memory.  Those routines are callable from
 any language.f  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 07:09:25 -0700- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) , Subject: Re: HP EVA Storageworks and OpenVMS= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0205310609.17bf6335@posting.google.com>   r jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) wrote in message news:<9059bf6b.0205290901.5e190bd1@posting.google.com>... > Hello, > . > Does anyone have EVA with OpenVMS installed? > $ > If so, what were your experiences? >  > How was your transition? >  > TIA, >  > JMOD  B So nobody out there has the latest Storageworks Enterprise VirtualB Array system installed with OpenVMS nodes?  How about Tru64 nodes?   ------------------------------  , Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:37:34 MET-1MET DST  From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@az1.de>, Subject: Re: HP EVA Storageworks and OpenVMS( Message-ID: <00A0EC5A.B192E075.7@az1.de>   Jason O'Donnell wrote:D > So nobody out there has the latest Storageworks Enterprise VirtualD > Array system installed with OpenVMS nodes?  How about Tru64 nodes?  @ Well, we have one box, but it's not running in production - only for demoes / workshops.   $ > If so, what were your experiences?  7 It takes some time to _really_ understand how it works.i   > How was your transition?  C It behaves like a HSG80 in multibus-failover + SCSI-3 mode, nothing + special. Do you expect something different?D   -- a
 Uwe Zessin   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:03:17 GMTn1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>mB Subject: Live on Tape: It's HP and the Wall Street Casino Analysts/ Message-ID: <9EJJ8.128967$L76.215479@rwcrnsc53>    FYI...  F Hewlett-Packard: HP to present live audio webcast of June 4 securities analyst meeting   L May 31, 2002 (M2 PRESSWIRE via COMTEX) -- What: HP (NYSE:HPQ), as it has forI past meetings with securities analysts, plans a live audio Webcast of itse  June Securities Analyst Meeting.G Who: The audio Webcast will be hosted by Carly Fiorina, HP chairman and G chief executive officer, and include presentations by members of the HPP executive team.   1 When: Tuesday, June 4 8:30 a.m. EDT/5:30 a.m. PDT1  + URL: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/sam/   K HP plans to post speakers' slides to the Web site at approximately the same-" time the presentations take place.  K On Wednesday, June 5, a replay of the audio Webcast will be posted. The URLuC to access the replay is the same as above and will be available for  approximately one week.r     -- Terry C. Shannon. Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.t terryshannon@attbi.com http://www.openvms.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:09:37 GMT)2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>+ Subject: Looking for a couple of volunteers 2 Message-ID: <BuLJ8.11$_Q4.339092@news.cpqcorp.net>   Dear Newsgroup,s  J I am in the process of getting the session list for ETS/CETS/DECUS 2002 in	 St.Louis.i  J I am looking for aprox 5 volunteers to look at the list of sessions I haveI so far and let me know if I am missing something you would really like toI see.  I Just so you know, we are planning on doing a celebration for OpenVMS's 25g anniversary in St.Louis.  + Please send me mail susan.skonetski@hp.com.   
 Warm Regards,m Suee   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:57:56 +0100c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading 8 Message-ID: <s6cefu0oa407s79gbe18jntfsm29g6inup@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 30 May 2002 17:49:17 +0100, Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>T wrote:   >In  > E >A few throw-aways like "everyone wants to develop VMS code in Visual E >Studio don't they?" John Apps should have been lynched for that one,RH >but everyone sat there comatose. One person gently suggested that might  F I got the feeling he was just trying to make the best of it. He agreedD with the point that it would be better if we had all the developmentF tools on VMS but had to trot out "we don't believe there is sufficient> demand to justify the expense of ports of development *client*A software." He had no answer to the point "but if you prototype on-E Windows before you know it the prototype app has gone live on WindowslE for the frontend, application logic *and the backend database".  Evenr: if it is torture to keep it semi-secure and semi-reliable.  E I recall asking why we don't even see the Oracle JAVA developer tools B certified on VMS. Rich Marcello promised they would be a couple of) years ago. I likely still have the email.i  E Questions were definitely muted due to the insistence by DECUS/CUO-UKsF that questions be strictly limited. To be fair there was time pressureE but I was certainly given the impression that the DECUS UK leadershipdD wanted me to think very carefully about asking awkward questions.  IF did get a chance to talk directly to Mark Gorham for about 15 mins andD I trust him when he said "believe me Alan I hear and understand whatE you are saying". Whether he can do much about it is the problem and Ie think he knows that. i    G >Highlight of presenter discomfort was when Alan Grieg asked how Mark GhD >could be so upbeat about VMS future when "..your President, Michael@ >Capellas said.. (and quoted the 'eviscerate' speech in stunning	 >detail)"e >m/ >"er.. he was quoted out of context" said Mark.w  E That didn't sound very convincing did it when it was pointed out that3F Capellas had said almost exactly the same thing several times  before.C In fact the almost identical statement was first used by Winkler ina@ the same context if I recall correctly. So rather than slap down$ Winkler, Capellas chose to echo him.  F On the plane down I found myself sitting next to one of Compaq UK's PRE company reps and we talked about a few things. He told me that CompaqDD was only interested in the service revenues and future Windows sales> opportunities from ex-DEC customers - nothing else. That's theE direction they get from Compaq. Of course we've always suspected thisl7 but it's obviously made very clear to the PR companies.   H >I had to leave a bit early. Missed the last two sessions. I was on call >that evening. >,E >General atmosphere was everyone there had a long VMS history, hopingoD >for any tidbit of good news that would keep them or their customers >loyal.e >iE >Very few were from the targetted major global industries, apart fromdD >folk on the fringes of the military, so there was an unspoken 'what >about us?'  >SF >Nothing at all to dispel the feeling that the VMS group are competentH >engineers running a decent business inside a monster that does not evenD >know they are there, or if it does, would prefer not to think aboutD >them because it does not fit in with the PC/printer preconceptions. >) >and the beer? I was driving.y >a >Elliott   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:40:15 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>2/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingc8 Message-ID: <r7hefusamqsmhjfqv3au9e5gvh34j3dace@4ax.com>  @ On Thu, 30 May 2002 16:31:12 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  a >In article <9m6cfuoaeakc2dujm1rju01rsj8oqsjfba@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  >>B >>Another free bar at the end but I was away by then. I could haveG >>stayed for another hour as  I ended up at Heathrow one hour early fornC >>the flight. Seems the locals over-estimated the traffic problems.  >>Which is unusual for the M25 > H >You didn't ride 1st class on the First Great Western back to Paddington >for the express to Heathrow?n  > That would have required me to catch the 17:20 from Reading toA Paddington then the Heathrow Express arriving terminal 1 at 18:33M  @ The taxi only took 40 mins, which was 33 mins less than combinedF trains (and I would still have had to get to the tain station from the	 brewery).e -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:32:25 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading$) Message-ID: <3CF75139.C33FEECD@127.0.0.1>    Alan Greig wrote:i > B > On Thu, 30 May 2002 16:31:12 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > c > >In article <9m6cfuoaeakc2dujm1rju01rsj8oqsjfba@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:s > >>D > >>Another free bar at the end but I was away by then. I could haveI > >>stayed for another hour as  I ended up at Heathrow one hour early for E > >>the flight. Seems the locals over-estimated the traffic problems.l  > >>Which is unusual for the M25 > >cJ > >You didn't ride 1st class on the First Great Western back to Paddington > >for the express to Heathrow?l > @ > That would have required me to catch the 17:20 from Reading toC > Paddington then the Heathrow Express arriving terminal 1 at 18:33n  C This sounds like a cue for the Monty Python train timetable sketch.R  B > The taxi only took 40 mins, which was 33 mins less than combinedH > trains (and I would still have had to get to the tain station from the > brewery).   1 The bar closed at 5 and we got chucked out sober.o     -- u( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comC   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:41:37 +0100M( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readinga) Message-ID: <3CF75361.91DF5393@127.0.0.1>e   JF Mezei wrote:d >  > Alan Greig wrote:rC > > But Mark was left in little doubt that we need no more negativeaH > > surprises. Everyone is watching closely. And someone needs to shutupH > > Capellas. I guess he has allies from HP-UX engineering on this front > > now. > P > 1- Do you feel that Gorham was already aware that customers have received HP'sI > messages very negatively ? Or is he learning that now, as he meets withe
 > customers ?.  E He knows. He spoke about press statements being taken out of context,tH and then having difficulty changing them. THis I do know happens from myE experiences with the media, they love sensations, not necessarily theg truth.  rN > 2- Any information on how/why Stallard put the "we want VMS users to migrate > to HP-UX" statement ?   G Out of context again. It was explained that Stallard came from the UNIX-H camp, so he's bound to be a little biased, but I understand the error ofH his ways has now been pointed out to him, and the statement now reflectsE the genuine cases where the decision to migrate is a done deal, which3B Mark accepted (unfortunately) does happen in this realistic world.F However it was made clear the desire was for it to be HP's UNIX rather than anyone else's.e  gL > 3- Any information on when during the merger, the decisicion about VMS wasP > made ? (or was none made yet, hence the fuzzy statements of "status quo as per > Compaq's policies" ?)c  G No, but I knew early on, but I hinted here and could say no more. I wash never in any doubt.lH Having seen the infamous Carly letter, I think the fuzzy words should be6 focussed. (Ask your Compaq^H^H^H^H^H^H HP account rep) -- s( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:20:51 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readinge) Message-ID: <3CF75C93.3ADABD9F@127.0.0.1>.   Alan Greig wrote:0 > 6 > On Thu, 30 May 2002 10:11:46 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"! > <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:- > H > >Any feedback from the VMS Seminar in Reading, UK? Any of you UK-basedK > >lurkers attend the event, and if so, do you remember anything of it? ;-}  >  > Yep.   What an excellent surmise Alan..  D > Mark Gorham opened by asking if Mike Magee was present and said heH > would welcome his attendance. Mike tells me he never received a formal
 > invitation..  H You missed his little end presentation for Mike, and I took a photographF of our dear user group chairman and Mark with the 'boot'. I'll get the picture online when I can.  sG > Mark (and the other presenters) gave very up-beat talks and its cleardC > VMS engineering has every confidence in meeting/beating publishede > roadmaps.e > G > Mark approached me at the break and I found him to be a very positive.G > individual. He listened to multiple customer concerns - eg. VMS ports0G > of Enterprise Products (SAP, Oracle Developer etc), customer disquietiH > surrounding statements from Michael "EVISCERATE" Capellas, ADA, forced5 > migrations to IA64 etc -  with good grace at least.h  H I found him very frank. When I spoke to him about marketing he describedG the Compaq way, and the HP way and what he hoped for. He also said thatoH widespread OpenVMS campaigns outside the  Computing media were unlikely, an area we'll disagree on.  mG > A number of ex DEC employees chucked some of the hardest balls in hiseF > direction but he didn't fall over. Hopefully that means he can fightH > hard for VMS within HP. Says they have a lot of friends within HP IA64F > and server development who can't wait to have VMS running on HP kit. > And that's a good thing. > * > Lunch saw the brewery tour and free bar. > F > Afterwards we had some more Storageworks info plus VMS futures but IH > had to dash off for a plane before the end. Storage sizes and transferE > rates for the top end equipment are getting so high as to be almost  > incomprehensible..  > Not to mention the weight. 65 TB in 1.06m ^2 footprint. It was= interesting that OpenVMS was leading the edge with multipath.   F > Freebies included a Compaq pen which flashes whenever your cellphoneD > receives a call. Handy for silent ring if you don't like vibrating6 > objects down your pants. Handy if you do as well :-)  E There was the techy who was there that had some trouble operating it, F but had to have the fact that the little button cells needed inserting first !o  B > Another free bar at the end but I was away by then. I could haveG > stayed for another hour as  I ended up at Heathrow one hour early fortC > the flight. Seems the locals over-estimated the traffic problems.i > Which is unusual for the M25  A The bar closed earlier than anticipated, but Mark hung around and , chatted longer until we were all thrown out.  " > All in all an enjoyable meeting. > A > But Mark was left in little doubt that we need no more negative0F > surprises. Everyone is watching closely. And someone needs to shutupF > Capellas. I guess he has allies from HP-UX engineering on this front > now.  F Agreed that it's been a shaky start from the public point of view, butH as you said, he's a positive man, and he took notes, back over to Nashua about many things.  A This event solidified my understanding of the direction of VMS, ae. message I can confidently take to our clients.   -- p( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:08:19 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingr8 Message-ID: <c3mefusdi9pktk55eelk305hun8774prve@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 31 May 2002 11:41:37 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:  H >No, but I knew early on, but I hinted here and could say no more. I was >never in any doubt.  E Yet Gartner, The Aberdeen Group and the Meta Group were in doubt. AndaB still are. Rightly or wrongly we pay enormous amounts in corporateD subscriptions to Gartner and our IT Directors and CIOs pay attention to these reports.m  ( I can see them now behind closed doors:   - "Alan assures us that VMS is safe on Itanium"dD "Yes, but Alan said the same about Alpha/NT, Tru64 and Alpha itself"  C I re-iterate that whatever disquiet I voice here I try to submit as B positive information as possible in internal reports. That's why I! make myself look stupid so often.R  I >Having seen the infamous Carly letter, I think the fuzzy words should be 7 >focussed. (Ask your Compaq^H^H^H^H^H^H HP account rep)e   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:47:41 +0100s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingt( Message-ID: <3CF762DD.B6C8E93@127.0.0.1>   Elliott Roper wrote: > C > In article <CVmJ8.2985$fT5.850880@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, Terry C. ) > Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:' > I > > Any feedback from the VMS Seminar in Reading, UK? Any of you UK-based7L > > lurkers attend the event, and if so, do you remember anything of it? ;-} > >tA > Well, my mum always said, .."if you can't say anything nice..."o > I > To tell you the truth I went there feeling a little depressed. Came outn > about the same.9 > D > Nobody seems to get the irony of talking about VMS with powerpoint	 > slides.M  & You've not seen my acetate which says:  2 "Exception in OHP, click to terminate" have you ?!   F > Lots of gung-ho we have heard before how four or five industries are$ > global strategic enterprise yadda.  E Interesting the point was picked up about healthcare but not clinical 7 research, and I have first hand experience of this too.   H > All the usual blunted timeline arrows re mid-stream horse interchange.  > Dates and directions appear to be a little sharper though, no?  b/ > Upbeat stuff about 7.3.1 Ruby "A gem in July"i  E Great stuff in 7.3-1, I'm hoping the UNIX portability initiatives are  given due exposure.v  nI > Careful explanation of the "tools to help you move to HP-UX" statements G > that had been made. Along the lines of "we won't push, honest, but ifu > you jump, we'll help you"   ( It is a difficult line they have to tow.  SF > A few throw-aways like "everyone wants to develop VMS code in VisualF > Studio don't they?" John Apps should have been lynched for that one,I > but everyone sat there comatose. One person gently suggested that mightrD > not be the best way, since if it half works on Windows, that's all6 > anyone expects, so why bother with two environments? > ( > Positive stuff about VMS "ambassadors" > G > Fairly pathetic attempt to say there are lots of new applications for1C > VMS because it has a Java runtime that sort of works. With slidesrB > showing a complete dog's breakfast of competing midddleware Java3 > snake-oil. Like we don't need MMS because of Ant.a  0 I sat in the parallel stream about Oracle 9iRAC.  D Interestingly, when they say 'linux' then mean SuSE linux and no-one else's.H  C Capabilities look good, and a plug for the customer testing labs inD Reading.  C VMS got a few mentions, the original presenter was changed at shortsH notice and we were treated to a picture of a (very) swollen foot, gained. when BOARDING a boat for a sailing expedition.   H > Highlight of presenter discomfort was when Alan Grieg asked how Mark GE > could be so upbeat about VMS future when "..your President, MichaeleA > Capellas said.. (and quoted the 'eviscerate' speech in stunninge
 > detail)" > 0 > "er.. he was quoted out of context" said Mark.  H However the language used was clearly explained by Alan, so I think Mark was in no doubt what was felt.  I > I had to leave a bit early. Missed the last two sessions. I was on callr > that evening.B > F > General atmosphere was everyone there had a long VMS history, hopingE > for any tidbit of good news that would keep them or their customers  > loyal. > F > Very few were from the targetted major global industries, apart fromE > folk on the fringes of the military, so there was an unspoken 'what. > about us?'  / There's progress I wish I could say more about.O  VG > Nothing at all to dispel the feeling that the VMS group are competent@I > engineers running a decent business inside a monster that does not even E > know they are there, or if it does, would prefer not to think abouteE > them because it does not fit in with the PC/printer preconceptions.0  E Dare I say it's early days. While we are all impatient for HP to show0+ it's new colours I'll reserve my judgement.   I > and the beer? I was driving.  ? I had a couple of halves, I was driving too. Nice stuff though."  F I'm hoping to put on a couple of entertaining talks for the user groupH in the not to distant future, I may just dig out my acetates and produce it in RUNOFF edited by TECO.   -- i( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:00:38 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>r/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readinga= Message-ID: <BBJJ8.63925$ux5.80881@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>u  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:c3mefusdi9pktk55eelk305hun8774prve@4ax.com...H > On Fri, 31 May 2002 11:41:37 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > wrote: >aJ > >No, but I knew early on, but I hinted here and could say no more. I was > >never in any doubt. >sG > Yet Gartner, The Aberdeen Group and the Meta Group were in doubt. And D > still are. Rightly or wrongly we pay enormous amounts in corporateF > subscriptions to Gartner and our IT Directors and CIOs pay attention > to these reports.l >i) > I can see them now behind closed doors:s >d/ > "Alan assures us that VMS is safe on Itanium"aF > "Yes, but Alan said the same about Alpha/NT, Tru64 and Alpha itself" >a  K I would place at least as much credence in Alan's pronouncements as I wouldnD place in the pronouncements of the Armani analysts, even though AlanG (probably) does not wear an Armani suit nor does he charge $50K USD perw annum for his "research."w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:09:39 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>v/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingr8 Message-ID: <h6tefuktoteudj6dff6c5d5d4b3dv6nsg2@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 31 May 2002 12:47:41 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:     >> tE >> Nobody seems to get the irony of talking about VMS with powerpoints
 >> slides. >r' >You've not seen my acetate which says:i > 3 >"Exception in OHP, click to terminate" have you ?!C  C I did say (loudly enough for Mark to hear I think), "Now if only itnF was Star Office under VMS". Or probably Open Office unless Sun could eE persuaded to support the port themselves. Maybe that's what Andrew ise really doing :-)  D Star/Open Office would have no problem in createing/displaying these PowerPoint slides.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:02:16 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> / Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in ReadingII Message-ID: <InLJ8.149386$ah_.24267@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>d   Alan Greig wrote:h >nG > Mark approached me at the break and I found him to be a very positive G > individual. He listened to multiple customer concerns - eg. VMS portsaG > of Enterprise Products (SAP, Oracle Developer etc), customer disquietnH > surrounding statements from Michael "EVISCERATE" Capellas, ADA, forced5 > migrations to IA64 etc -  with good grace at least.i      5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagee# news:3CF75C93.3ADABD9F@127.0.0.1...t >kJ > I found him very frank. When I spoke to him about marketing he describedI > the Compaq way, and the HP way and what he hoped for. He also said that-J > widespread OpenVMS campaigns outside the  Computing media were unlikely, > an area we'll disagree on.  F Not advertising in the 'mainstream' press of CEO's (ie. WSJ, FinancialJ Times, Fortune, Business Week, Economist, etc...)  is a MONUMENTAL mistakeG on HP's part. The readers (ie. the senior corporate executives) in this@H marketspace NEED to be reached with a positive VMS message, otherwise itK cuts the legs out from under the technologists (read: the people who do thesL work each day, those who frequent this newsgroup) who are trying desparatelyD to keep VMS in their shops, doing what it does best - doing business reliably 24x7.  J Perhaps if HP advertised VMS to upper management, the execs would questionC why on earth anyone in their organization was trying to force their K company's computing environment to be substandard (ie. Windows / unix). ButMH it won't happen unless HP puts some effort forth this way. HP needs both@ these two groups - the execs and the technologist supporting VMS  E How many of you who contribute/lurk in the newsgroup haven't had your H management or senior IT execs 'diss' you for championing VMS within yourF organization? How many times have you and/or VMS been called a 'livingJ fossil'? When this happens often enough it gets to the point of becoming a self-fulfilling professy.r  K VMS and unix do things differently under the hood, but VMS does most thingsgJ better and more reliably. Why is it so hard for ComHPaq to tell the people who sign the cheques this?     -------------------------   J One or more of the ng readers may find the following 'counter-productive',E but it's not an entirely inaccurate analogy describing HP's marketingM attitude towards VMS:   E Coast Guard: "We're very sorry Mrs. Smith, your child drowned today."e Mrs. Smith: "Where was he?"hG Coast Guard: "Just off-shore...in view of the beach lifeguard station."n' Mrs. Smith: "Why did he have to drown?"n9 Coast Guard: "Because nobody made an effort to save him."oF Mrs. Smith: "All those lifeguards just standing there...watching him?"K Coast Guard: "Yes, each waiting to the chief lifeguard to give the 'rescue't signal."- Mrs. Smith: "And the signal was never given?"  Coast Guard: "That is correct." L Mrs. Smith: "I assume that all these lifguards will be punished for shirking their duty."H Coast Guard: "Actually not...they'll be sharing in $117 million worth of bonus payments."   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:25:58 GMTF1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> / Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingt- Message-ID: <VJLJ8.24324$0A2.22753@rwcrnsc54>u  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:h6tefuktoteudj6dff6c5d5d4b3dv6nsg2@4ax.com...H > On Fri, 31 May 2002 12:47:41 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > wrote: >a >a > >>G > >> Nobody seems to get the irony of talking about VMS with powerpointe > >> slides.  L Bill Joy (Sun) might. He uses Windoze and Orifice on his peecee, or at leastK he did three years ago. Of this I have first-hand knowledge. Then again, hes1 may have graduated to another environment by now.d   > >y) > >You've not seen my acetate which says:t > >r5 > >"Exception in OHP, click to terminate" have you ?!w > E > I did say (loudly enough for Mark to hear I think), "Now if only it  > was Star Office under VMS".c  I There was a midnight effort to Make This So at CPQ a couple of years ago.n& Last I heard, the effort was scuttled.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:46:30 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingt@ Message-ID: <VFOJ8.77782$jm.7712710@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message-# news:3CF75C93.3ADABD9F@127.0.0.1...e   ...h  J > I found him very frank. When I spoke to him about marketing he describedI > the Compaq way, and the HP way and what he hoped for. He also said thateJ > widespread OpenVMS campaigns outside the  Computing media were unlikely, > an area we'll disagree on.  I Hey - the minute we see *widespread* VMS campaigns *within* the computingHK media (CW at the head of the list) I'll start radically reassessing my viewe of HP's commitment.   G But I'm not exactly holding my breath in anticipation:  sounds like yetrE another hopeful statement with virtually no chance of coming to pass. K Remember the last real ad campaign we were promised (by Marcello, back wheno' he occupied Gorham's current position)?G  J As usual, cHumPaq appears to feel that a few words of encouragement to theK already-committed will suffice to calm them down until the next shoe drops. I And as usual they're probably right (at least it sure looks that way fromh the comments posted here).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:53:41 +0100e From: paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com@ Subject: Memo:  Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?E Message-ID: <OF7A212C58.3F88F8A3-ON80256BCA.00307008@systems.uk.hsbc>   C There is (or was) a DECnet firewall product available for just thisiH purpose. (Then) DEC sold it onto another company in California and there were issues last I saw it: It is expensiverK It was not developed much and restricted in the version of VMS it could rune under + Phase IV only - Phase V slips right throughv However:F Excellent product and an example later firewalls should have followed.> If this suits, mail me directly and I will dig up the contacts   Paul        ' ** HSBC's website is at www.hsbc.com **C  D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, pleaseiB  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.a  =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure orAA  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,H>  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context ofs?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.e  eD  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office o=  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly eA  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so i3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.c  D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:23:42 -0230 , From: "Jeff Barnes" <barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca>" Subject: MntVerifyTimeout Question- Message-ID: <D7MJ8.1036$8P4.361792@localhost>i  G Having been press-ganged into supporting a DEC 2100 running OpenVMS 6.2lE without much VMS experience I was hoping the experts could answer thea
 following.  G What does a MntVerifyTimeout indicate on a device when you do a sh dev,   leading to the following output:  L Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MnteL  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count Cntn  G Alpha$Disk200: MntVerifyTimeout  2283     Volume       100000     1   1h    H Does it mean the disk is not mounted nor accessiable?  I don't think the0 error count has gone up since yesterday however?  L Please forgive if the answer is easily found in a FAQ or other documenation. Thanks.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:23:22 +0100h* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>& Subject: Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question, Message-ID: <ad84gn$1ae6@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  _ "Jeff Barnes" <barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca> wrote in message news:D7MJ8.1036$8P4.361792@localhost...     I > What does a MntVerifyTimeout indicate on a device when you do a sh dev,c" > leading to the following output:7 > Does it mean the disk is not mounted nor accessiable?a  O Slightly worse than that; when you take a disk offline there is a period duringrT which user I/O to the disk will be stalled. During that time the system will attemptS to regain access to the disk, and if succesful restart the users I/O. This is mount L verification. Similar to what you might see if your NFS server got rebooted.  M After MVTIMEOUT seconds (default 1hr) the system gives up, declares the mountsO verification over and abandons attempts to access the disk. From this state youfP have to manually dismount and remount it to put it back online (and also fix the original problem).  F If you don't have access locally to the FM, they are available online:T http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6017/6017pro_038.html#underst_mount_verif   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:36:04 -0400 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>t& Subject: Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question1 Message-ID: <3CF79864.6E5E2FE@clarityconnect.com>0  D This means that MVTIMEOUT time has expired without VMS being able toF successfully access the disk after the error that placed it into MountF Verify.  Use DISMOUT/ABORT to dismount it, have your hardware servicesF analyze the disk errors in the error log and take appropriate remedialD steps which may include a disk replacement and an image restore from backup.k   Jeff Barnes wrote: > I > Having been press-ganged into supporting a DEC 2100 running OpenVMS 6.2dG > without much VMS experience I was hoping the experts could answer thee > following. > I > What does a MntVerifyTimeout indicate on a device when you do a sh dev, " > leading to the following output: > N > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans > MntkN >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count > Cnt  > I > Alpha$Disk200: MntVerifyTimeout  2283     Volume       100000     1   1a > J > Does it mean the disk is not mounted nor accessiable?  I don't think the2 > error count has gone up since yesterday however? > N > Please forgive if the answer is easily found in a FAQ or other documenation.	 > Thanks.s   -- tC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYr0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or so  	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 10:50:31 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org& Subject: Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question3 Message-ID: <7vwIGHq4Gc5b@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  e In article <3CF79864.6E5E2FE@clarityconnect.com>, "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> writes: F > This means that MVTIMEOUT time has expired without VMS being able toH > successfully access the disk after the error that placed it into MountH > Verify.  Use DISMOUT/ABORT to dismount it, have your hardware servicesH > analyze the disk errors in the error log and take appropriate remedialF > steps which may include a disk replacement and an image restore from	 > backup.s  = If you have stubborn applications that refuse to close files,n; even in in the face of some pretty severe error messages or > if you have installed images on the disk, you may have to take; measures to kill processes and de-install images before the = disk can actually be dismounted.  Until the disks's referencea< count goes to zero, it will be merely "marked for dismount".  7 In extreme cases, system reboot is the easiest way out.e   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:33:35 +0100t* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> Subject: Mobile printing.hM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E78A@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>p   Please could you help?  K I have a number of dialup Laptop users connecting in and using a mixture ofeK Powerterm and Reflection 2 emulators to access a text/VT220 driven package.MG I have been asked if they can print reports to a local printer on theirn laptops.I I need if possible to be able to setup a generic printer queue which wills4 print back to the connected PC to a default printer.F I have tried using LPD/LPR queues to do this, as I can setup a defaultI printer share on every laptop. I can get the IP address of the connectingoF Laptop, but I can't feed that variable into the rm name of the printerI setup, although having an queue for every dialup IP address and using thewL variable to call the right queue works, but is very crude & creates a lot of queues.tL Is there anyway of setting up this facility at the command line level, whichL prints via IP, doesn't require the user to know anything & doesn't require a queue for every laptop. H I had a search through google & FAQ but didn't come across anything thatJ appeared to fit. I will admit it may be my search abilities need refining.  
 OVMS 7.2-2   Regardst   Andrew Robinson    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:29:44 GMTp3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com>  Subject: Re: Mobile printing. 5 Message-ID: <3CF788E3.680976EE@DigitalSynergyInc.com>    Andrew Robinson wrote:   > Please could you help? >eM > I have a number of dialup Laptop users connecting in and using a mixture ofsM > Powerterm and Reflection 2 emulators to access a text/VT220 driven package. I > I have been asked if they can print reports to a local printer on theirj
 > laptops.K > I need if possible to be able to setup a generic printer queue which will16 > print back to the connected PC to a default printer.H > I have tried using LPD/LPR queues to do this, as I can setup a defaultK > printer share on every laptop. I can get the IP address of the connecting:H > Laptop, but I can't feed that variable into the rm name of the printerK > setup, although having an queue for every dialup IP address and using the N > variable to call the right queue works, but is very crude & creates a lot of	 > queues.cN > Is there anyway of setting up this facility at the command line level, whichN > prints via IP, doesn't require the user to know anything & doesn't require a > queue for every laptop.sJ > I had a search through google & FAQ but didn't come across anything thatL > appeared to fit. I will admit it may be my search abilities need refining. >n > OVMS 7.2-2 >l	 > Regardsp >o > Andrew Robinsonm  N Since you are using an emulator, a small program that opened the list file andF used the escape sequences to open the printer port (ESC[4i and ESC[5i) can be used.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:12:40 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e Subject: Re: No new Alpha saleshI Message-ID: <sxLJ8.149510$ah_.67680@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>+  6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:Uqoo2V5KMQKm@elias.decus.ch...  >k8 > But I agree that Sun has it right for the entry level,A > as that's where many applications get developed and potentiallyr > large users may start. >   L Like the education market and the small ISV and the lone person tinkering atF some company....all of whom figure out later on that when they need toF deploy what they've written, it's cheaper to pay some relatively smallI amount of money for a license fee than it is to redo the whole thing fromo scratch in another environment.-  H And that is pretty much how both Sun and Microsoft wormed their way intoI prominence...and partly how DEC did it before either of them (at least ind the academic sphere).8  0 The more it changes, the more it stays the same.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 09:02:23 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>o( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!6 Message-ID: <20020531090223.23421.qmail@gacracker.org>  E On Thu, 30 May 2002, "Mike Speegle" <mikespeegle@netscape.net> wrote:C6 >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message8 >news:d7791aa1.0205301539.37621a95@posting.google.com... >. >>; >> were is Larry at?  I thought profanity on this board was  >> filtered ...f >k> >    SSH is not a moderated newsgroup.  You may be thinking ofB >sci.space.moderated, but profanity is not, per se, filtered.  ;-)  K Check the newsgroups line, this message is also crossposted to comp.os.vms.eI However, I don't think there is any filtering or moderation on any of the( posted to newsgroups.e     Doc. -- i6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netk   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 08:25:56 -0700- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)( Subject: Open Letter to HP= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>i   To Whom It May Concern:   F A company has an application, responsible for a significant portion ofF its gross revenue, that resides on a Compaq (formerly Digital) OpenVMSE platform.  The application uses many of the OpenVMS system services. iF Because the application uses these services, moving the application to0 a different operating system would be expensive.  E With the recent acquisition of Compaq by Hewlett-Packard (HP), I havecB looked for information from HP regarding the future of OpenVMS.  ID recently read a "white paper" entitled HP Product Roadmaps from HP. D This document contained only this one sentence in regard to OpenVMS:  @ HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaq OpenVMS' roadmap, including the port to Itanium.g  E While it is heartening to know that HP will deliver on the Roadmap, ar> single sentence is hardly rousing support.  The fact that thisF sentence was placed under the UNIX section rather than its own section? or at the very least placed with NonStop as a high-availabilitydF operating system would indicate that the New HP management has no idea$ what OpenVMS is or its capabilities.  E That lack of knowledge will inevitably continue the minimal marketing E effort that OpenVMS has endured, reduce funds spent on development of A the system, and eventually lead to its stagnation and demise.  If C OpenVMS technology will be "End-of-Lifed" by HP, then the sooner weyA know that the more proactive we can be in porting to IBM hardwareu running Linux.  A In order for me to support and promote continued investment in HPg. OpenVMS products, I need to see the following:C 1. A press release from the CEO and other senior corporate officers E highlighting the strengths of OpenVMS and stating that HP will investhF in marketing and development of OpenVMS as one of its premier products for the foreseeable future. : 2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.? 3. Discussions with customers highlighting planned or potentiala OpenVMS enhancements.:   Jason O'Donnell E The opinions expressed above are my own and not necessarily the viewsa of my employers.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:34:34 GMT.1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>l Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP= Message-ID: <eKMJ8.66269$ux5.81561@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>k   Hear, hear!!!!   Good going Jason!i  : "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message7 news:9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com...  > To Whom It May Concern:T > H > A company has an application, responsible for a significant portion ofH > its gross revenue, that resides on a Compaq (formerly Digital) OpenVMSF > platform.  The application uses many of the OpenVMS system services.H > Because the application uses these services, moving the application to2 > a different operating system would be expensive. >fG > With the recent acquisition of Compaq by Hewlett-Packard (HP), I have-D > looked for information from HP regarding the future of OpenVMS.  IE > recently read a "white paper" entitled HP Product Roadmaps from HP.dF > This document contained only this one sentence in regard to OpenVMS: >NB > HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaq OpenVMST) > roadmap, including the port to Itanium.  > G > While it is heartening to know that HP will deliver on the Roadmap, aq@ > single sentence is hardly rousing support.  The fact that thisH > sentence was placed under the UNIX section rather than its own sectionA > or at the very least placed with NonStop as a high-availability*H > operating system would indicate that the New HP management has no idea& > what OpenVMS is or its capabilities. > G > That lack of knowledge will inevitably continue the minimal marketingtG > effort that OpenVMS has endured, reduce funds spent on development ofeC > the system, and eventually lead to its stagnation and demise.  IfiE > OpenVMS technology will be "End-of-Lifed" by HP, then the sooner we C > know that the more proactive we can be in porting to IBM hardware  > running Linux. >tC > In order for me to support and promote continued investment in HPs0 > OpenVMS products, I need to see the following:E > 1. A press release from the CEO and other senior corporate officers-G > highlighting the strengths of OpenVMS and stating that HP will investbH > in marketing and development of OpenVMS as one of its premier products > for the foreseeable future.5< > 2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.A > 3. Discussions with customers highlighting planned or potential. > OpenVMS enhancements.a >h > Jason O'DonnelloG > The opinions expressed above are my own and not necessarily the viewsd > of my employers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:51:48 -0500 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>  Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP1 Message-ID: <ad869c$e1l$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>l  L Well done Jason.  Now has this letter been sent to the powers that be at the new hp?C   -- Dave...*  ? Man was made at the end of the week's work, when God was tired.s -----Mark Twainh  : "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message7 news:9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com...g > To Whom It May Concern:e >eH > A company has an application, responsible for a significant portion ofH > its gross revenue, that resides on a Compaq (formerly Digital) OpenVMSF > platform.  The application uses many of the OpenVMS system services.H > Because the application uses these services, moving the application to2 > a different operating system would be expensive. >rG > With the recent acquisition of Compaq by Hewlett-Packard (HP), I havesD > looked for information from HP regarding the future of OpenVMS.  IE > recently read a "white paper" entitled HP Product Roadmaps from HP. F > This document contained only this one sentence in regard to OpenVMS: >nB > HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaq OpenVMST) > roadmap, including the port to Itanium.e >eG > While it is heartening to know that HP will deliver on the Roadmap, ai@ > single sentence is hardly rousing support.  The fact that thisH > sentence was placed under the UNIX section rather than its own sectionA > or at the very least placed with NonStop as a high-availabilitymH > operating system would indicate that the New HP management has no idea& > what OpenVMS is or its capabilities. >lG > That lack of knowledge will inevitably continue the minimal marketingnG > effort that OpenVMS has endured, reduce funds spent on development ofeC > the system, and eventually lead to its stagnation and demise.  IfcE > OpenVMS technology will be "End-of-Lifed" by HP, then the sooner we C > know that the more proactive we can be in porting to IBM hardwaren > running Linux. > C > In order for me to support and promote continued investment in HPl0 > OpenVMS products, I need to see the following:E > 1. A press release from the CEO and other senior corporate officerssG > highlighting the strengths of OpenVMS and stating that HP will investeH > in marketing and development of OpenVMS as one of its premier products > for the foreseeable future.-< > 2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.A > 3. Discussions with customers highlighting planned or potentialy > OpenVMS enhancements.- >  > Jason O'Donnell.G > The opinions expressed above are my own and not necessarily the viewse > of my employers.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:49:51 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPJ Message-ID: <PQNJ8.162846$t8_.162473@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Jason,  	 Well put.o  J No offense, but you really need to get the people in your organization who0 authorize signing the checks to send the letter.  L Your task, and indeed everyone who cares about VMS at all organizations,  isK to ensure that the senior people in your company understand the dollars and I cents realities of the *FULL* cost of porting - and that includes all thenB investigation, planning, testing, bug fixing, people and equipmentJ dislocation costs, business interruption costs, and lost profits while you; spend your time re-inventing what exists rather than addingvE feature/functionality that will enable you to crush your competitors.v  F Get them aggravated that HP will cost your company tens of millions ofF dollars (straight out of the executive compensation pool - they *WILL*J understand that) for no good reason if HP continues on its current path ofC not-so benign neglect of VMS marketing and clear public commitment.       : "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message7 news:9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com...c > To Whom It May Concern:U >DH > A company has an application, responsible for a significant portion ofH > its gross revenue, that resides on a Compaq (formerly Digital) OpenVMSF > platform.  The application uses many of the OpenVMS system services.H > Because the application uses these services, moving the application to2 > a different operating system would be expensive. >oG > With the recent acquisition of Compaq by Hewlett-Packard (HP), I haverD > looked for information from HP regarding the future of OpenVMS.  IE > recently read a "white paper" entitled HP Product Roadmaps from HP.rF > This document contained only this one sentence in regard to OpenVMS: > B > HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaq OpenVMST) > roadmap, including the port to Itanium.  >1G > While it is heartening to know that HP will deliver on the Roadmap, ab@ > single sentence is hardly rousing support.  The fact that thisH > sentence was placed under the UNIX section rather than its own sectionA > or at the very least placed with NonStop as a high-availabilitynH > operating system would indicate that the New HP management has no idea& > what OpenVMS is or its capabilities. >-G > That lack of knowledge will inevitably continue the minimal marketing-G > effort that OpenVMS has endured, reduce funds spent on development ofoC > the system, and eventually lead to its stagnation and demise.  If@E > OpenVMS technology will be "End-of-Lifed" by HP, then the sooner wecC > know that the more proactive we can be in porting to IBM hardwarem > running Linux. >iC > In order for me to support and promote continued investment in HPi0 > OpenVMS products, I need to see the following:E > 1. A press release from the CEO and other senior corporate officers G > highlighting the strengths of OpenVMS and stating that HP will invest H > in marketing and development of OpenVMS as one of its premier products > for the foreseeable future.a< > 2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.A > 3. Discussions with customers highlighting planned or potentialg > OpenVMS enhancements.a >t > Jason O'Donnell G > The opinions expressed above are my own and not necessarily the viewss > of my employers.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:57:39 GMTm2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP2 Message-ID: <7YNJ8.24$gW4.561267@news.cpqcorp.net>   Jason,  @ Please send me your email address I am trying to send you email.   Thanks,i   Suee   susan.skonetski@hp.com  : "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message7 news:9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com...c > To Whom It May Concern:x >eH > A company has an application, responsible for a significant portion ofH > its gross revenue, that resides on a Compaq (formerly Digital) OpenVMSF > platform.  The application uses many of the OpenVMS system services.H > Because the application uses these services, moving the application to2 > a different operating system would be expensive. >cG > With the recent acquisition of Compaq by Hewlett-Packard (HP), I havesD > looked for information from HP regarding the future of OpenVMS.  IE > recently read a "white paper" entitled HP Product Roadmaps from HP.pF > This document contained only this one sentence in regard to OpenVMS: >vB > HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaq OpenVMST) > roadmap, including the port to Itanium.w >hG > While it is heartening to know that HP will deliver on the Roadmap, ai@ > single sentence is hardly rousing support.  The fact that thisH > sentence was placed under the UNIX section rather than its own sectionA > or at the very least placed with NonStop as a high-availability H > operating system would indicate that the New HP management has no idea& > what OpenVMS is or its capabilities. >fG > That lack of knowledge will inevitably continue the minimal marketing G > effort that OpenVMS has endured, reduce funds spent on development of C > the system, and eventually lead to its stagnation and demise.  IfcE > OpenVMS technology will be "End-of-Lifed" by HP, then the sooner weaC > know that the more proactive we can be in porting to IBM hardwaret > running Linux. > C > In order for me to support and promote continued investment in HPa0 > OpenVMS products, I need to see the following:E > 1. A press release from the CEO and other senior corporate officersuG > highlighting the strengths of OpenVMS and stating that HP will invest H > in marketing and development of OpenVMS as one of its premier products > for the foreseeable future.t< > 2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.A > 3. Discussions with customers highlighting planned or potentiale > OpenVMS enhancements.s >r > Jason O'Donnell G > The opinions expressed above are my own and not necessarily the viewsc > of my employers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:53:10 +0200r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>u Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3CF7AA76.1FAD41B4@aaa.com>I   Just a minor problem...a   Jason O'Donnell wrote: >  > To Whom It May Concern:a >    [A lot of sensible writing !]      > Jason O'DonnelloG > The opinions expressed above are my own and not necessarily the viewse > of my employers.  G That's the problem. I think it would have had more strength if it *had*  been your employers opinion !4   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 12:32:52 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)l Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP3 Message-ID: <9Kfk36OXT5G5@eisner.encompasserve.org>5  m In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:p > To Whom It May Concern:  > H > A company has an application, responsible for a significant portion ofH > its gross revenue, that resides on a Compaq (formerly Digital) OpenVMSG > platform.  The application uses many of the OpenVMS system services. iH > Because the application uses these services, moving the application to2 > a different operating system would be expensive. > G > With the recent acquisition of Compaq by Hewlett-Packard (HP), I havetD > looked for information from HP regarding the future of OpenVMS.  IF > recently read a "white paper" entitled HP Product Roadmaps from HP. F > This document contained only this one sentence in regard to OpenVMS: > B > HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaq OpenVMS) > roadmap, including the port to Itanium.G > G > While it is heartening to know that HP will deliver on the Roadmap, a @ > single sentence is hardly rousing support.  The fact that thisH > sentence was placed under the UNIX section rather than its own sectionA > or at the very least placed with NonStop as a high-availabilityLH > operating system would indicate that the New HP management has no idea& > what OpenVMS is or its capabilities. > G > That lack of knowledge will inevitably continue the minimal marketingtG > effort that OpenVMS has endured, reduce funds spent on development of C > the system, and eventually lead to its stagnation and demise.  IfdE > OpenVMS technology will be "End-of-Lifed" by HP, then the sooner wegC > know that the more proactive we can be in porting to IBM hardwareu > running Linux. > C > In order for me to support and promote continued investment in HP 0 > OpenVMS products, I need to see the following:E > 1. A press release from the CEO and other senior corporate officers G > highlighting the strengths of OpenVMS and stating that HP will investeH > in marketing and development of OpenVMS as one of its premier products > for the foreseeable future.e< > 2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.A > 3. Discussions with customers highlighting planned or potential  > OpenVMS enhancements.r >    Jason,  @ 	I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe advertisingB 	should be targetted.  It is for other similar high-end OSes, i.e.A 	AS/400, mainframes and NSK and when was the last time you saw a VD 	Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, etc. commercial on television?  They run * 	ads in targetted publications - I assume.  @ 	A very good attempt to sway opinion was put together by a group> 	that worked months formulating ideas.  That piece - penned by? 	Bill Todd with great amount of input from others - is found at > 	the Google link below.  Advertizing ideas among other things.   				Roba  S http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=921fl3%24pdv%241%40pyrite.mv.net&output=gplainh   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 08:59:36 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>t9 Subject: Re: OT: JF's reputation (Was: Please Read - ...)w6 Message-ID: <20020531085936.23162.qmail@gacracker.org>  C On Thu, 30 May 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:t >Jim Agnew wrote:l >> oD >> Actually, this behavior is typical of Klez.. someone who has JF's >> address is infected...r >yH >I know I am bad, but not THAT bad... my name isn't so bad that its mereJ >presence in an address book results it that person being infected :-) :-) >:-) :-) > L >Note that the culprit did some research on what newsgroups I participate inK >and targetted those.  Perhaps the news->mail gateway for comp.os.vms couldtJ >automatically filter out any message that is cross-posted to a non comp.* >newsgroup.r  B That wouldn't block the messages from appearing in comp.os.vms theI newsgroup. Anyway, blocking crossposts that include comp. and alt. groupsn5 would block the discussions there have been involvingn alt.folklore.computing.s     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 31 May 2002 09:51:35 GMT( From: cb@df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen)+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)!& Message-ID: <ad7h37$b1i$1@news.lth.se>  * In article <3CF6CBEA.5020102@qsl.network>,, John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote: >Eric Sosman wrote:o >> M >> 	2 bits = 1 quartyr >n >Wouldn't 2 bits be a tayste?l >o >> 	2 quartyrs = 1 nybble  >> 	2 nybbles = 1 byte >> 	2 bytes = 1 halfword >l >2 bytes should be a chomp.m  
 I thought            2 bytes   = 1 playte         2 playtes = 1 dynner  - , at least according to The Jargon File, see c> <http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/playte.html> andI <http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/dynner.html>, and a longer  F list at <http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/nybble.html> ...   >-John   // Christian Brunschen   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:39:43 -0400e0 From: Rick Murphy <rmurphy@mitretek.org.invalid>+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)n4 Message-ID: <3CF77D1F.CC079448@mitretek.org.invalid>   Eric Sosman wrote:; >     Yes.  One of the VMS system services (I forget which)s< > took a time interval expressed in seconds, and the on-line< > HELP documentation whimsically stated that the timeout was< > to be expressed in units of microfortnights.  Just in case; > someone missed the joke, there was a parenthetical remark 9 > to the effect that one microfortnight was approximatelye: > equal to one second.  It's really 1.2+ seconds, hence my > reference to a 20% error.t  
 Not quite.D The "microfortnights" unit was referenced in a VMS SYSGEN parameter,D TIMEPROMPTWAIT. This parameter set how long the system would wait at@ the boot time prompt for the date and time before giving up and  continuing to boot.   A The first couple of VAXen had battery operated Time-of-Year (TOY)f clocks.sF When the system booted, it read the time from the TOY and booted usingD that time; if the TOY clock was invalid for some reason (battery ran down,cH etc.) the OS prompted for the time. That meant that the boot process gotH stuck waiting for the system manager to enter the date/time; this was OKG since invalid TOY settings were rare. For 11/780s and 11/750s, this wasl a reasonable assumption.  E Enter the VAX 11/730. No battery backed-up TOY clock. This caused thee problem E of getting stuck at the date/time prompt to become more serious - thed systemD could never automatically reboot after a power failure; it got stuck waiting-B for human intervention. That's why TIMEPROMPTWAIT was implemented.F The units (microfortnights) were apparently chosen as a comment on the wisdom" of the choice to omit a TOY clock.  G There was also a brocure being passed around DEC at the time describingh abE peripheral for the 11/730 that solved the TOY problem - the SD730-AA,e alsoG known as the Sun Dial 730. Unfortunately, it didn't work well on cloudyl	 days. :-)m 	-Rick    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!e> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 06:50:14 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information 6 Message-ID: <20020531065014.18546.qmail@gacracker.org>  D On Fri, 31 May 2002, Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com> wrote: >Derek Lyons wrote:o >d1 >> John Beaderstadt <beady@mindspring.com> wrote:e >> >Bob Ceculski wrote: C >> >> and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,n! >> >> unless death or adultry ...i >> >2 >> >Actually, I believe God commands *four* wives. >> >> In serial or parallel?M >> >o
 >serial,  ;-)g  < Can people please drop comp.os.vms from the newsgroups line? [Followup set appropriately]   TIA      Doc. -- c6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neth   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:58:20 +1000m> From: "Cameron Dorrough" <cdorrough@spamspamgoawayrmna.com.au>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationl/ Message-ID: <ad76uo$25g$1@perki.connect.com.au>n  ; "Julian Bordas" <JulianBordas@bigpond.com> wrote in messagev% news:3CF7039E.CC94F44A@bigpond.com...l >l >  > Bob Ceculski wrote:e >e= > > Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com> wrote in message & news:<3CF6079F.46700B4@bigpond.com>... > > > JF Mezei wrote:t > > >IL > > > > One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106K > > > > partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a  > > > > lifetime.e > > >hJ > > > Jesus you yanks are slow, 8 in a lifetime!!  I had more than that at! > > > CHICON V back in Sept 1991.v > > > @ > > > (sorry Janet you weren't the only one that week end :-(  ) > > A > > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,r > > unless death or adultry ...s >sJ > Islam has four wives per man, if he can afford it (and putup with 4x the nagging)  K Oh, so you're a Muslim now?  Only one minute previously you stated that youlJ didn't believe in God.  I guess that makes you a Monkey That Got Lucky..??   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:26:15 GMTjA From: "H. McDaniel" <Cut_of_Xs_to_Reply_xxmcdaniel_san@yahoo.com>w5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationt) Message-ID: <3CF73489.A557DF16@yahoo.com>t   Julian Bordas wrote:   > "H. McDaniel" wrote: >n) > > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote:s > >d > > > ; > > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messages= > > > news:d7791aa1.0205301121.2fc5df81@posting.google.com...r > > > 	 > > > ...t > > >tE > > > > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,p# > > > > unless death or adultry ...a > > >pL > > > Why am I not surprised that idiocy and Bible-thumping go hand-in-hand? > >p@ > > By defintion when you say idiocy, short of making a clinical: > > diagnosis of Bob's mental capabilities, you are simply< > > classifying what he said as being something you consider? > > foolish.  You seem to assume that there is agreement in thet6 > > audience here with you on whether J's having eight> > > partners in one day is considered something to brag about. >f9 > It wasn't 8 in a day.  8 over 7 days (Friday was goood)O  6 Purchase the escort sampler on expense account?  Yeah, that's been done a few times.t  	 -McDanielm   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:02:07 GMTp- From: John Beaderstadt <beady@mindspring.com>s5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important InformationO- Message-ID: <3CF74A20.4090302@mindspring.com>o   Derek Lyons wrote:    0 >>Actually, I believe God commands *four* wives. >>>  > In serial or parallel?    9 I guess that depends on how much vitamin E you're taking.e   --  H Beady's 6th Law of Social Harmonics:  "You cannot reason a man out of a 9 position he did not reach through reason." (Plagiarized.)t   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 05:38:04 -0700- From: rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com (Otis McNatt)e5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationv= Message-ID: <5beb2330.0205310438.2f2a0cfb@posting.google.com>   a Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<3CF70376.1806B4CD@bigpond.com>...s > Bob Ceculski wrote:n > d > > Julian Bordas <JulianBordas@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<3CF6079F.46700B4@bigpond.com>... > > > JF Mezei wrote:p > > >i4 > > > > MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT HOMOSEXUALS DO. > > > >d > > >h< > > > Pray tell dear heart,  What has this to do with s.s.s? > > >l > > > >-L > > > > One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106K > > > > partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a  > > > > lifetime.l > > > J > > > Jesus you yanks are slow, 8 in a lifetime!!  I had more than that at! > > > CHICON V back in Sept 1991.n > > > @ > > > (sorry Janet you weren't the only one that week end :-(  ) > >uA > > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,n > > unless death or adultry ...e > 8 > Proud? no sad and dissapointed, two or three got away. > : > What god?  There is no god, only fairly tales for adults  : You make sweeping claims, with the confidence of an idiot.9 Do you believe in singularities?  In your mind, can there ; be infinite densities?  Yeah, it's all fairy tale...consulto a good book on astrophysics.   --	 O. McNattw   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 05:44:14 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationi= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205310444.34bdce23@posting.google.com>a  r "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<XhvJ8.69638$Kp.6981370@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagea9 > news:d7791aa1.0205301121.2fc5df81@posting.google.com...n >  > .... > A > > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,d > > unless death or adultry ...a > M > Why am I not surprised that idiocy and Bible-thumping go hand-in-hand?  AnyeL > other institutions besides VMS and the church that you'd care to embarrass  > by your association with them? >  > - bill  C sadly, Mr. Todd, you will be the one calling yourself an idiot wheno6 you are being poked with a pitchfork from Mr. Liar ...   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 05:48:57 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important InformationP= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205310448.34e1951f@posting.google.com>r   "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.33.0205301832290.3847-100000@localhost.localdomain>...i' > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote:d >  > > 9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagei; > > news:d7791aa1.0205301121.2fc5df81@posting.google.com...w > >  > > ...e > > C > > > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands, ! > > > unless death or adultry ...e > > J > > Why am I not surprised that idiocy and Bible-thumping go hand-in-hand? > > > By defintion when you say idiocy, short of making a clinical8 > diagnosis of Bob's mental capabilities, you are simply: > classifying what he said as being something you consider= > foolish.  You seem to assume that there is agreement in then4 > audience here with you on whether J's having eight< > partners in one day is considered something to brag about.7 > As to "bible-thumping"... Bob didn't use any biblicalH: > citations but I suppose that detail may not be important	 > to you.t >  > >  AnyN > > other institutions besides VMS and the church that you'd care to embarrass" > > by your association with them? > 8 > Which church would that be? Are you reading a lot into7 > what Bob said?  Reacting to some unpleasant childhoodg6 > memories or something?  Are you and Bob old enemies?8 > You're trying to intimidate the guy into being silent.8 > I don't know why that's fair since J. made her comment5 > in a public forum and invited (by posting) somebody 
 > to comment.s >  > -McDanieli  A actually, I don't know him, but I do know his posting reflect hisoA current spiritual condition, which if he doesn't change before hee@ dies, he is the one who will be calling himself an idiot, and it$ will be in very hot surroundings ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:39:33 -0700j! From: john <johnrn@attglobal.net>-5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationm8 Message-ID: <616ffuo3ku8kglq5ntv19kasub952ljtg1@4ax.com>  / On Fri, 31 May 2002 00:11:51 GMT, "H. McDaniel"a' <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote:a  & >On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote: >e >> fB >> "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote in messageH >> news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0205301832290.3847-100000@localhost.localdomain...* >> > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote: >> > >> > >< >> > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message> >> > > news:d7791aa1.0205301121.2fc5df81@posting.google.com... >> > >
 >> > > ... >> > >F >> > > > and you are proud of that?  one partner is what God commands,$ >> > > > unless death or adultry ... >> > >M >> > > Why am I not surprised that idiocy and Bible-thumping go hand-in-hand?f >> >A >> > By defintion when you say idiocy, short of making a clinical ; >> > diagnosis of Bob's mental capabilities, you are simplyh= >> > classifying what he said as being something you considere
 >> > foolish.v >> hM >> No:  I have rather more experience with Bob than I'd care to, and he is ifhH >> not clinically an idiot certainly one in the commonly-accepted idiom. >f= >Do you believe the "bible-thumping" caused this condition ore; >something else?  I'm curious about why you believe "idiocy 9 >and Bible-thumping go [together]".  Given that Bob's ande; >your own history are completely unknown to me, perhaps youy$ >could humor me with an explanation. >c6 >>   You seem to assume that there is agreement in the7 >> > audience here with you on whether J's having eightg? >> > partners in one day is considered something to brag about.t >> wI >> Not at all.  In fact, I have exactly zero interest in what any of this M >> audience outside comp.os.vms think, and would have pruned the other groupssM >> had I thought of it.  In this response, I've pruned comp.os.vms, since the ? >> trash that's come in on this thread is of no interest there.o >s> >Are you speaking for everyone that reads comp.os.vms?  I find= >it interesting that people often forget to trim distributionh0 >until after they've said what they want to say. >r: >> > As to "bible-thumping"... Bob didn't use any biblical= >> > citations but I suppose that detail may not be importants >> > to you. >> 7I >> 'God' (capitalized, in the societies almost certainly most prevalentlytO >> represented here) is not a biblical reference?  Guess you have problems with  >> details yourself. >.@ >In that the word "God" is not exclusively found in the bible or= >limited to biblical references the word does not necessarilyo< >indicate a biblical reference.  Plenty of people invoke the3 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ? >name "God" without making any specific or intentional biblicals7 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^i  B >reference at all as was the case, from my point of view, in Bob's8 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^= >posting.   Am I clear now or should I provide more examples?e3 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^t  D Well, if he wasn't making a biblical reference then was he quoting a  '  personal message he received from God?a  ) How else would he know what God commands?s   John   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:38:37 +0200o5 From: Martin Knoblauch <Martin.Knoblauch@teraport.de>o  Subject: Re: Press Release DS20L5 Message-ID: <ad7gat$udps2$1@ID-115181.news.dfncis.de>h   David Mathog wrote:g   > 0 > Other than minor cosmetic changes, did HPQ put2 > any engineering effort into this product once it > acquired it from API?g >   J  if this is really based on the CS20, then there might be some changes in L the thermal engineering of the box. IIRC, that was the biggest problem when H CPQ was looking at OEMig the CS20 for HPC clusters (back in late 2000). K Plus the stuff to make it boot Tru64 and the additional drives in Tru64 to e
 drive the HW.0   Martin -- oB ------------------------------------------------------------------B Martin Knoblauch         |    email:  Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de7 TeraPort GmbH            |    Phone:  +49-89-510857-309E7 C+ITS                    |    Fax:    +49-89-510857-111y5 http://www.teraport.de   |    Mobile: +49-170-4904759    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 04:58:11 -0700 From: cbdeja@my-deja.com (-)0 Subject: read access required to write to a file< Message-ID: <611952a3.0205310358.923421c@posting.google.com>  F I am writing a replacement for the C runtime library function access()@ because as it says in the documentation "access() does not check ACLs".  F However, when I investigated the current behaviour of access() I foundC that the values it returns do not always agree with what you are IN?" ACTUALITY allowed to do to a file.  F For example, if you have a file which has only "W" protection code andF you ask access() if you have write access to it (W_OK) it will say youE do - but in reality you must have both "R" and "W" protection code tot  write to the file using fopen().  F Also if your file has only "R" protection code and you ask access() if@ you can execute the file it will say no - but in reality you CAN@ execute the file because (as the documantation says) "R" implies execute rights.i  E I now have to decide whether my replacement access() function follows C the existing access() which in my opinion seems to be defective, or6B instead attempts to report what you can in reality do to the file.  B To do this I would need to ensure that a file had "RWD" protectionE code before my access() would say you had write access to it. Also if D a file had "R" or "X" protection code then it would say that you had execute access to it.d  E I'm fairly new to VMS programming, so can anyone explain why access()o= seems defective, or any other strange rules which govern whatyB operations you can in reality perform on a file? Or just any other comments .....?l   Thanks   Colini   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:42:17 -0400-6 From: "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>4 Subject: Re: read access required to write to a file4 Message-ID: <3CF76FA9.8090409@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>   - wrote:@  > I am writing a replacement for the C runtime library functionF  > access() because as it says in the documentation "access() does not  > check ACLs".0 <snip>  F It appears that access() is one of those UNIX functions that can have ) legally implementation specific behavior.o  3 Some implementations ignore ACLs, some follow them.o  D Some of it depends on the way that ACLs are implemented on the UNIX ( system, if in fact they are implemented.  J So this makes OpenVMS no better or no worse than the other UNIX platforms.  E If you want true access checking, then the OpenVMS SYS$CHECK_ACCESS()d, system service is what you will need to use.  ?  > I'm fairly new to VMS programming, so can anyone explain why D  > access() seems defective, or any other strange rules which governD  > what operations you can in reality perform on a file? Or just any  > other comments .....?   Welcome to OpenVMS.e  H The UNIX file protection bits do not match 1 to 1 with the OpenVMS file  protection bits.  F OpenVMS has Owner, Group, System, and World, and ACLs.  UNIX only has F Owner, Group, and World categories, and at the time that the access()   call was implemented on OpenVMS.  D Unix also does not have a Delete bit.  So when creating a file, the I Write bit implies the Delete bit should be set.  But when using access()  G    to translate back protection on a file, there is no way to properly hH return back that a file has only one of Write or Delete access, but not  both.t  J Some of these porting issues are discussed in the "Compaq C User's Guide".  + http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/   H Also see the "Guide to OpenVMS File Applications" and "OpenVMS Guide to  System Security"  I The SYS$CHECK_ACCESS() system service is in the "OpenVMS System Services i Reference Manual"u  # http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/-   -John ! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp0 Personal Opinion Onlyn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 07:13:03 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency0) Message-ID: <3CF7146F.5754AA8F@127.0.0.1>h   "Kenneth H. Fairfield" wrote:h >  > Nic Clews wrote: >  > > ... NotfK > > entirely sure there is (unless using minimerge) that merging or copying: > > is a different operation.7 > I >     Indeed, merging and copying ARE different.  But you're correct that>G > they both do a read & compare.  The main difference between the merge G > and the copy is that a "copy-target" is NEVER used for reads from the>H > shadow set until the copy completes.  That means you never have a readD > ahead of the "merge fence", which requires reading both drives andF > compare (same as routine copy or at the merge fence), and possibly aE > write based on the shadow master's data, all of which make for more E > I/Os plus seeking back and forth over the disk.  The result is thataB > shadow copies DO complete faster for (almost) identical disks...  ( Ah. That makes perfect sense. Thank you.   -- h( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 07:27:33 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencyo) Message-ID: <3CF717D5.330CEAD0@127.0.0.1>[   JF Mezei wrote:t > B > > > > 1. Create a single member shadow 'set' and copy your data.N > > > > 2. Do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to the member drive which will join the shadow > > > > set. > J > If you do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL, how does that affect bad blocks ? Are those6 > revectored transparently even to a BACKUP/PHYSICAL ?  F Bad block (revectoring is totally transparent to the file system. DSA,G or "Digital Storage Architecture" drives, are all capable of this. SometC drives have different methods of dealing with it, but as far as theVA operating system is concerned, LBNs run from 0 to n with no gaps.t  H BACKUP/PHYSICAL starts at LBN 0 and carries on until n. The reason it isD so fast is it is not performing file seeks, and fragmentation levelsF mean nothing. However you cannot access data at file level in physical
 tape backups.t  O > Also, when you mount two absolutely identical drives in a shadowset, wouldn'twN > there be absolutely no copy/merge operation since the bits that identify the% > age of the data would be the same ?   7 How does the shadowing software know they are the same?E  H This is why I'd like to see some internals on shadowing, particularly onH the metadata structures. I've played about a little with shadowing (readC that as experimenting where I can't do any damage!) What happens in C shadowing, who does what to who depends on the way the shadowset issF formed and also what the contents of the meta data is. Unless I'm veryG much mistaken, BACKUP is capable of manipulating this data during IMAGEo operations.r  F e.g. Split a system disk shadow set, backup/image from one to another,C reboot. Invariably I have seen the new defragmented disk become the $ 'master' or source. Fluke or clever.  P > As I recall, the shadowing software will initiate an update on a drive when itP > sees that one drive in the shadowset is younger than others (eg: modificationsJ > made more recently than on other drives) or if the other drives were not$ > previously part of that shadowset.  > Which is probably what I see when doing the defragmentation on* shadowsets. So it is clever and not fluke.  lO > But if all the bits that define the status of a drive are equal, wouldn't theaN > shadowing software simply think that the drives were dismounted properly andF > the shadowset can now be reformed without any copy/merge operation ?  H I'm guessing, but I would imagine the shadowing metadata contains a dateA and time stamp of the shadowset formation and this is used in thewA decision process. There is probably also some sort of checksum orn@ transaction count to keep members 'in step' as data is shadowed.  E Where's the shadowing internals book? There's a space in my shelf ford( it. Well, OK, I'll make room for one :-)   -- :( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:27:12 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> # Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency ; Message-ID: <01KIDFE2BNGY984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > I'm guessing, but I would imagine the shadowing metadata contains a dateC > and time stamp of the shadowset formation and this is used in theeC > decision process. There is probably also some sort of checksum oreC > transaction count to keep members 'in step' as data is shadowed.   > G > Where's the shadowing internals book? There's a space in my shelf for-* > it. Well, OK, I'll make room for one :-)  @ There is the Volume Shadowing for OpenVMS as part of the normal E documentation.  It discusses things like the timestamp etc.  Perhaps C& this is enough on "internals" for you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 03:54:34 -0400=% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>a# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency , Message-ID: <3CF72C37.91EE1104@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:9 > How does the shadowing software know they are the same?l  D There is a structure on each drive that contains some sequence which" increments at "regular intervals".  H If one drive is taken out of the shadow set, its sequence number will noK longer match that of the shadow set. So when it rejoins, the software knows/L that the joining drive has a sequenc enumber that is "older" than the shadowJ set's current one and thus will be the target of a copy/merge operation to bring it up to date.  H But if you dismount the shadow set (eg: all drives taken out at the sameN time), then each drive will have the same sequence number and when you remountN the shadow set with those same drives, the software will realise that there isG no need to do a copy/merge operation since the drives are all the same.h  M That is why when you boot a system, it is worth waiting a few minutes for the K other nodes' drives to appear so that you can recreate the shadow sets with N all drives at once. If you add the drives that have become available after theN shadow set has been created, they will be the target of an update (merge/copy), and the system will be slower for some time.    K But one would still need some confirmation that if you mount two absolutely M identical drives (backup/physical) that the shadowing software will be happy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:22:34 +0100f( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencyi) Message-ID: <3CF74EEA.8F02DD90@127.0.0.1>    Phillip Helbig wrote:rI > > Where's the shadowing internals book? There's a space in my shelf foro, > > it. Well, OK, I'll make room for one :-) > A > There is the Volume Shadowing for OpenVMS as part of the normalaF > documentation.  It discusses things like the timestamp etc.  Perhaps( > this is enough on "internals" for you.  & Of course I have that but no it isn't.  E John Atoz would be the ideal candidate when MiniMerge starts to get a H little more mature. He has a fine whitepaper on the role of shadowing inH disaster tolerant clusters out there. I had an interesting chat with him a bit back.c -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:55:40 +0100d( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency ( Message-ID: <3CF764BC.3E38732@127.0.0.1>   JF Mezei wrote:f >  > Nic Clews wrote:; > > How does the shadowing software know they are the same?  > F > There is a structure on each drive that contains some sequence which$ > increments at "regular intervals".  C This will be why the physical backup is different, the IMAGE backup-B re-creates the system files, including any metadata. What does the physical backup really do?  F However I've asked similar question of "Mr. Shadow" and been surprisedH by his responses, so this is why I'll wait (impatiently) for a shadowing
 internals.  : I'm sure there are things going on not widely known about.   J > If one drive is taken out of the shadow set, its sequence number will noM > longer match that of the shadow set. So when it rejoins, the software knows>N > that the joining drive has a sequenc enumber that is "older" than the shadowL > set's current one and thus will be the target of a copy/merge operation to > bring it up to date. > J > But if you dismount the shadow set (eg: all drives taken out at the sameP > time), then each drive will have the same sequence number and when you remountP > the shadow set with those same drives, the software will realise that there isI > no need to do a copy/merge operation since the drives are all the same.d > O > That is why when you boot a system, it is worth waiting a few minutes for thetM > other nodes' drives to appear so that you can recreate the shadow sets withaP > all drives at once. If you add the drives that have become available after theP > shadow set has been created, they will be the target of an update (merge/copy). > and the system will be slower for some time. > M > But one would still need some confirmation that if you mount two absolutelyhO > identical drives (backup/physical) that the shadowing software will be happy.r   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 06:36:29 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencye< Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205310536.db54a24@posting.google.com>  k "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> wrote in message news:<3cf5df5e$0$6963$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>...d > Hello, > K >     We are replacing the old storageworks disks of one of our clusters byo > new universalaG > disks. This means we'll have to copy about 1 TB net of data. The datar > storage is entirelymN > on shadow sets. What is the most efficient way (elapsed time optimisation) : > F > 1) initialize the new shadow sets and copy the data directly to them >  > or > K > 2) copy the data on normal disks and re-mount them as shadow sets (with ah > shadow copy) after ? > K > Also, when initializing a new shadow set, is there a way to do it withoutI% > having a shadow copy taking place ?n >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Marc Van Dyck.    C If you use BACKUP/IMAGE to copy your data, then (1) is not possibleiE because BACKUP/IMAGE requires the target volume to be mounted foreigny+ and you can't mount a virtual disk foreign.e  C Re your second question: Another poster has suggested that a shadowoF copy operation could be avoided by using BACKUP/PHYSICAL. I'm not sureB that that would work, but if it does work, is BACKUP/PHYSICAL much@ faster than a shadow copy operation? I don't know. I'd guess not; because they're doing the same thing, but I never tried it.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmano" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 07:04:32 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency^= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205310604.3e8621d7@posting.google.com>t  k "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> wrote in message news:<3cf5df5e$0$6963$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>...  > Hello, > K >     We are replacing the old storageworks disks of one of our clusters bya > new universalaG > disks. This means we'll have to copy about 1 TB net of data. The dataD > storage is entirely5N > on shadow sets. What is the most efficient way (elapsed time optimisation) : > F > 1) initialize the new shadow sets and copy the data directly to them >  > or > K > 2) copy the data on normal disks and re-mount them as shadow sets (with ae > shadow copy) after ? > K > Also, when initializing a new shadow set, is there a way to do it withoutn% > having a shadow copy taking place ?a >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Marc Van Dyck.  F In my previous post I said BACKUP/PHYSICAL does the same thing as doesB a shadow copy operation. I stand corrected. It would be faster, inB general. However, I still haven't tried it to see if the shadowingE software would consider them both to be current members. I'll have to  try it when I get a chance.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanp" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:40:08 +0200r) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>c# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencys/ Message-ID: <3CF79958.8040406@xs4all.nospam.nl>l   Alan E. Feldman wrote:m > "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> wrote in message news:<3cf5df5e$0$6963$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>...n >  >>Hello, >>K >>    We are replacing the old storageworks disks of one of our clusters byt >>new universaltG >>disks. This means we'll have to copy about 1 TB net of data. The datao >>storage is entirely,N >>on shadow sets. What is the most efficient way (elapsed time optimisation) : >>F >>1) initialize the new shadow sets and copy the data directly to them >> >>or >>K >>2) copy the data on normal disks and re-mount them as shadow sets (with a  >>shadow copy) after ? >>K >>Also, when initializing a new shadow set, is there a way to do it without % >>having a shadow copy taking place ?e >> >>Thanks in advance, >> >>Marc Van Dyck. >  > H > In my previous post I said BACKUP/PHYSICAL does the same thing as doesD > a shadow copy operation. I stand corrected. It would be faster, inD > general. However, I still haven't tried it to see if the shadowingG > software would consider them both to be current members. I'll have toc > try it when I get a chance.o >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman $ > afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com  I I can't imagine that the shadowing software would accept the result of a  I BACKUP/PHYSICAL as a valid shadowset member just because it has the same nE generation number. Equal generation numbers are only valid when more  H than one member gets mounted into an empty (or not yet existing) shadow H set. In the case that a volume gets added to a shadow set, the software I will invalidate the new member and subject it to a copy operation. Being aF the result of said BACKUP/PHYSICAL it will be an efficient copy since = only a relatively small number of blocks needs to be written.o  	 Bart Zornm   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:57:37 -0400c  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency ? Message-ID: <OF1D2A5E08.D592F29C-ON85256BCA.00577CD2@metso.com>n   > BeingeG > the result of said BACKUP/PHYSICAL it will be an efficient copy sinceo? > only a relatively small number of blocks needs to be written.y  E I thought ShadowCopy just copied, without regard to existing content,  meanwhile writing to allF spindles, even if said written blocks will be copied later if they are "ahead of" the copy fence.        = Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> on 05/31/2002 11:40:08 AMm  5 Please respond to Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>t   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc: & Subject:    Re: Shadow sets efficiency     Alan E. Feldman wrote:; > "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> wrote in message 1 news:<3cf5df5e$0$6963$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>...i >t >>Hello, >>K >>    We are replacing the old storageworks disks of one of our clusters by. >>new universal G >>disks. This means we'll have to copy about 1 TB net of data. The dataa >>storage is entirelyp> >>on shadow sets. What is the most efficient way (elapsed time optimisation) :r >>F >>1) initialize the new shadow sets and copy the data directly to them >> >>or >>K >>2) copy the data on normal disks and re-mount them as shadow sets (with af >>shadow copy) after ? >>K >>Also, when initializing a new shadow set, is there a way to do it withoutd% >>having a shadow copy taking place ?p >> >>Thanks in advance, >> >>Marc Van Dyck. >e >eH > In my previous post I said BACKUP/PHYSICAL does the same thing as doesD > a shadow copy operation. I stand corrected. It would be faster, inD > general. However, I still haven't tried it to see if the shadowingG > software would consider them both to be current members. I'll have to  > try it when I get a chance.- >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman $ > afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com  H I can't imagine that the shadowing software would accept the result of aH BACKUP/PHYSICAL as a valid shadowset member just because it has the sameD generation number. Equal generation numbers are only valid when moreG than one member gets mounted into an empty (or not yet existing) shadowgG set. In the case that a volume gets added to a shadow set, the softwareaH will invalidate the new member and subject it to a copy operation. BeingE the result of said BACKUP/PHYSICAL it will be an efficient copy sinceu= only a relatively small number of blocks needs to be written.h  	 Bart Zorne   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:30:02 +0100 (MET)p9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?; Message-ID: <01KIDFGORWLU984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   5 > Obviously. I just tried it again on my home system:t >  > $ def fred  $1$dka0:[fred] > $ mail >  > MAIL> send > To:     fred8 > %MAIL-E-USERSPEC, invalid user specification ':[FRED]' >  > MAIL> send > To:     _fred- > Subj:   testJ > Enter your message below. Press CTRL/Z when complete, or CTRL/C to quit: > test . >  > which works. > > M > > This definitely still works.  I don't think it is documented officially,   > > though..  H Is there a user called FRED on the system?  If not, where does the mail I arrive?  If so, then the following happens: sending to FRED doesn't work  I since FRED is translated to the logical, which is an invalid user name.  oI Using _FRED works for the same reason that sending mail to ANY user name vG preceeded by an underscore works (and has the side effect of not being rG forwarded even if SET FORWARD is in effect) which as far as I know has f nothing to do with logicals.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 09:08:40 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>rI Subject: Re: smtp.config and Blocking mail(waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)s6 Message-ID: <20020531090840.23489.qmail@gacracker.org>  9 On Thu, 30 May 2002, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote: J >So, if I add segfault.net to my bad_client list in smtp.config (tcpip5.1): >will it block it, or does it only look at the from field?  F I think the bad client list isn't going to help you with this. You getI comp.os.vms via the Info-VAX mailing list and that is what is sending yout the message.  I Were you receiving mail directly from segfault you could request a block.oH Were it being sent directly to the Info-VAX list, that could be blocked.F However, it's going to Usenet via a mail2news gateway so there is very! little that can be done about it.a     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 07:55:15 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Strange crash) Message-ID: <3CF71E53.AEA5AD1E@127.0.0.1>s   JF Mezei wrote: " > Thanks to all for their answers. > C > Below is the OPCOM from operator log on VELO (the surviving node)h > N > Took about 20 seconds after connection was lost before VELO decided BIKE wasN > dead. I like the second message ! (Is this message simply stating that OPCOM6 > on VELO is no longer expecting messages from BIKE ?) >  > Note that 7 > VELO: SCSSYSTEMID = 1031, VOTES = 2  (surviving node) % > BIKE: SCSSYSTEMID = 1029, VOTES = 1h > H > A minute after BIKE was declared dead by VELO. BIKE came back to life. > J > If the problem on the ethernet was on a hub or cable, wouldn't BIKE have= > remained unreacheable ? (remember I was asleep at the time)n > N > I have a NAT router between the cable modem and my lan. Is it therefore safeP > to assume that a storm coming from the internet would likely be stopped by theL > router ? Can a cable modem overwhelm an ethernet to such an extent and for0 > enough duration that SCS packets are stopped ?   This is at home, right?e  F Your NAT router or cable modem, did your network company flash upgrade' it? Perhaps that caused the net outage.   C I have a digital satellite TV box, and when the 'blow' the firmwareBE (over the air incidentally) the box resets itself. It also knocks out H the normal TV, simply because the box also takes the terrestrial signalsH and distributes those, so for a minute or so, there is nothing. It's notF yet happened when I've been watching something, but I know when it hasF happened cos it's retuned itself to the "customer" channel. In extreme' cases the box itself goes into standby.   sM > I would therefore tend to think that it was BIKE that had a problem (eitherh9 > driver or hardware) which was reset when BIKE rebooted.r > % > DECNET counters on VELO look clean.r > [ > In any event, I am reassured that I need not suspect the TCP stack in terms of intrusion.  > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:15:59.01  %%%%%%%%%%%D > 07:15:58.95 Node VELO (csid 00010005) lost connection to node BIKE  1 TIMVCFAIL exceeded on VELO. [Default =16 seconds]e  g: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.01  %%%%%%%%%%%@ > OPCOM on VELO is deactivating BIKE, csid 00010003, system 1029< > Node is no longer with us, placing node in DEPARTED state.  G All attempts at trying other cluster interconnects (if any) failed, anys@ other virtual circuits could also have failed, but you don't seeF notification of that :-( BIKE will be left in this state, and while inG this state it may rejoin the cluster fairly safely in mot cases. BiggernG RECNXINTERVALs delay the decision process but won't hang systems unlesso quorum is lost.y   [RECNXINTERVAL = 20 default]   : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.09  %%%%%%%%%%%N > 07:16:19.46 Node VELO (csid 00010005) timed-out lost connection to node BIKE  ( BIKE was away longer than RECNXINTERVAL.  s: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.28  %%%%%%%%%%%R > 07:16:19.47 Node VELO (csid 00010005) proposed reconfiguration of the VAXcluster  E The decision process. The cluster briefly hangs while this is figuredsG out. In surviving multi node clusters, they all exchange information asoG to who can see what and this has to match. One system co-ordinates thisg activity. 20-30 step process.n  h: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.33  %%%%%%%%%%%L > 07:16:19.47 Node BIKE (csid 00010003) has been removed from the VAXcluster  E The deed is done, BIKE's death warrant (current incarnation) has been- signed.-  G Meanwhile BIKE is hanging. It lost QUORUM so user processing hangs. ThenE cluster software still polls all the cluster interconnects waiting... 
 waiting...  D: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.44  %%%%%%%%%%%M > 07:16:19.49 Node VELO (csid 00010005) completed VAXcluster state transitionl  - Processing resumes, not even a tear was shed.   : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:17:22.61  %%%%%%%%%%%@ > OPCOM on VELO recognizes node BIKE, csid 00010006, system 1029I > Attempting to establish communications, placing node in STARTING state.   F This is the point where BIKE was given the bad news. VELO has moved on< from the relationship it once had with BIKE, and because theD co-operating datastructures in the cluster are no longer valid (BIKEF does not have a valid current cluster context), BIKE may not rejoin asF it is. It was reconfigured out of the relationship, so the only way itD can rejoin is to reboot and reinitialize its datastructures then askE permission to join the existing cluster as a new member. (If BIKE had@A rebooted / crashed at this point then joining would be permitted)s  " This is what the CLUEXIT achieves.  D Interestingly, my choice of words and your nodenames could lead to aG little cartoon when the cluster interconnect was re-established betweent@ the systems, liken it to a phonecall in a strained relationship.  ! VELO: "It's over, you're a BIKE!".  ! (Does that work in your culture?)y --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 04:11:24 -0400o% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: Strange crash, Message-ID: <3CF73028.F2E61270@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:H > Your NAT router or cable modem, did your network company flash upgrade) > it? Perhaps that caused the net outage.j  N Network company only has access to the cable modem. No way they could touch my< router. So if modem goes off-line, it doesn't affect my lan.  < > > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.01  %%%%%%%%%%%B > > OPCOM on VELO is deactivating BIKE, csid 00010003, system 1029> > > Node is no longer with us, placing node in DEPARTED state. > I > All attempts at trying other cluster interconnects (if any) failed, anynB > other virtual circuits could also have failed, but you don't see > notification of that  E But isn't that message simply stating that OPCOM on VELO is no longeroK expecting/processing messages generated by BIKE ? Or is the above an actualr "cluster status" message ?  J Does the OPCOM process play a role in deciding which node participate in a- cluster and which ones should be kicked out ?)      G > The deed is done, BIKE's death warrant (current incarnation) has beend	 > signed.r  / > Processing resumes, not even a tear was shed.a  F Sorry, but the unwarranted death of BIKE did generate a few tears.....  B > > OPCOM on VELO recognizes node BIKE, csid 00010006, system 1029K > > Attempting to establish communications, placing node in STARTING state.  > H > This is the point where BIKE was given the bad news. VELO has moved on> > from the relationship it once had with BIKE, and because theF > co-operating datastructures in the cluster are no longer valid (BIKEH > does not have a valid current cluster context), BIKE may not rejoin as > it is.    N What exactly prevents a node to rejoin without first being murdered ?  It is aJ given that VELO would have dismounted drives served by BIKE. But when BIKEM rejoins, couldn't it resubmit all the locks it had that belonged to VELO, and)E assume that VELO no longer has any locks on stuff belonging to BIKE ?t  1 What other issues prevent a node from rejoining ?s    # > VELO: "It's over, you're a BIKE!"  > # > (Does that work in your culture?)h  - Nop. Sorry. Care to explain that expression ?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:59:30 +0100d( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Strange crash) Message-ID: <3CF73B72.E90F46C0@127.0.0.1>A   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Nic Clews wrote:J > > Your NAT router or cable modem, did your network company flash upgrade+ > > it? Perhaps that caused the net outage.h > P > Network company only has access to the cable modem. No way they could touch my> > router. So if modem goes off-line, it doesn't affect my lan.  H I've failed to explain your 'net outage then. The LAN counters in SDA on' the surviving system could hold a clue.e  r> > > > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  28-MAY-2002 07:16:21.01  %%%%%%%%%%%D > > > OPCOM on VELO is deactivating BIKE, csid 00010003, system 1029@ > > > Node is no longer with us, placing node in DEPARTED state. > >jK > > All attempts at trying other cluster interconnects (if any) failed, anyoD > > other virtual circuits could also have failed, but you don't see > > notification of that > G > But isn't that message simply stating that OPCOM on VELO is no longeroM > expecting/processing messages generated by BIKE ? Or is the above an actuali > "cluster status" message ?  + The OPCOM statement is a little misleading.t  L > Does the OPCOM process play a role in deciding which node participate in a/ > cluster and which ones should be kicked out ?n  H It is the role of the connection managers between the cluster members toH decide who is and isn't in. OPCOM is the OPerator COMmunicator, so it is; informed by CNXMAN, you'll see occasionally on real consoley  
 %CNXMAN...  , messages, some of which are passed to OPCOM.  I > > The deed is done, BIKE's death warrant (current incarnation) has beenC > > signed.d > 1 > > Processing resumes, not even a tear was shed.s > H > Sorry, but the unwarranted death of BIKE did generate a few tears.....  G Its a hard life in the world of clusters. Definite decisions have to benE taken. You could increase RECNXINTERVAL, this way, BIKE could be awayM$ for longer and be allowed to rejoin.  E You may be wondering why isn't RECNXINTERVAL just big anyway, well if A the node you've lost has a vote capable of influencing the QUORUMuE status, then bear in mind that this means things hang around for thatlC amount of time. It is therefore a trade off. In your simple clustercH case, increasing it has little or no consequence. Your 2 vote node wouldC still have quorum and nothing would stall. Should BIKE have had the D vote(s) needed to maintain QUORUM, then the cluster would hang (wellH suspend user processing) until RECNXINTERVAL expires OR the missing vote carrier returns.  sD > > > OPCOM on VELO recognizes node BIKE, csid 00010006, system 1029M > > > Attempting to establish communications, placing node in STARTING state.  > >>J > > This is the point where BIKE was given the bad news. VELO has moved on@ > > from the relationship it once had with BIKE, and because theH > > co-operating datastructures in the cluster are no longer valid (BIKEJ > > does not have a valid current cluster context), BIKE may not rejoin as
 > > it is. > G > What exactly prevents a node to rejoin without first being murdered ?s  C The formation of the subcluster by the reconfiguration process. TheeC cluster context of the removed node is no longer valid (see later).b  
 >  It is a? > given that VELO would have dismounted drives served by BIKE.    F Well, no, drives would have gone MOUNT VERIFY, normal VMS operation. IF would have expected that unless you have DCL procedures during the VMSA start-up which fix the condition, you'd had to manually fix that.    > But when BIKEeO > rejoins, couldn't it resubmit all the locks it had that belonged to VELO, andeG > assume that VELO no longer has any locks on stuff belonging to BIKE ?a  H And this is the key. Reconfiguration means lock management decisions areF taken, and for now that's outside the scope of this. But yes, the lockH data on BIKE is [assumed] stale, anything it did have which was relevantF to other members in the cluster will have been re-delegated and likelyF changed status. No assumptions are made about what has happened in the- time that BIKE was excluded from the cluster.o  D BIKE reopened the cluster interconnect, and the STARTING message was< received by VELO. BIKE is them told what the current clusterF configuration is. The message from BIKE would also have details of itsH last picture (i.e. a former member). BIKE has no idea what has happened,H again it can't make assumptions. The rest of the cluster could have hungH for all it knew with nothing timed out, in this case, rejoining would be
 an option.   3 > What other issues prevent a node from rejoining ?1  G If the node comes along to a cluster and its EXPECTED_VOTES would cause H a hanging condition in a currently running cluster with QUORUM, it'll beF refused. (Shouldn't happen in a rejoining condition unless perhaps IPC! was used to force the condition).6  H If it thinks it is in the same cluster, then a decision will be taken asH to what must happen. This is what I was alluding to in my reply to PeterF Weaver. Say two systems have quorum but have the same cluster ID, whatF happens? Dopplegangers cannot happen, that totally breaks the rules ofB clusters, so one kills the other, who does what to who is complex.   % > > VELO: "It's over, you're a BIKE!"  > > % > > (Does that work in your culture?)a > / > Nop. Sorry. Care to explain that expression ?p  G For UK, it is (generally) a derogatory term inferring a large number oftG partners (euphemism: ride), or in this case an expression of infidelity E where it is expected. My personal rules are live and let live. In theC= world of clusters, it is one of intolerance of rule breaking.t  B I think this is why discussion here gets so passionate. Those hereB loving VMS due to the way it sticks to the rules without question,E mirroring personal principles in our beliefs. Sometimes I'd liken theeE discussion here to connection managers arguing about what the optimalsF configuration is, when we all possess different virtual circuits - and therefore points of view!  -- P( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 08:29:42 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)y# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2I= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205310729.5dbaff2d@posting.google.com>r  4 bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message A > do ... if you can run apache and understand the web and tcp/ip, 9 > you should be able to run any webserver, shouldn't you?   > OK, (I know I should not get into this, it's Friday night, I'm# at the end of a hard week, ... but)0  5 Now, Bob, you might be in some closed world where thev< (properly downgraded term) -> "IT Industry", is yet unknown,9 and the "Computer Industry" is still fact. For most of us  this is not the case.   9 I'll patch you in on the current state of play: Apache is]7 *THE WEB SERVER* - it is in the process of killing M$ -S, the battle is on. I know which side I am on.  7 Apache under OpenVMS - even in earlier versions, one of 8 which I am running, is ***VERY COMPETENT*** since it has8 been poked at from just about every angle. Under OpenVMS9 the security aspect can be extended in any way you want -a6 IE: you can contain it under a given username and give it access restricted by ACLs.t  7 The stress I have put Apache under is not something anyn2 normal company (such as yours) would put it under:  = (1) Labs - ~250 PCs - all 100% under use (we are a large partk:     of UNSW) Home page on browser launch - course notes on     the web.: (2) Computer Science students - who will take out anything:     not secure. (well I did the same anyway when I was...)4 (3) Other web site ORGs initiated by research teams.  < You are right in that I expect my hardware (Alpha) and my OSC (OpenVMS) to stand in there - it does - no problems. TCPIP ServicesRA was a problem - now is less of one (ECO4) and with the patch I ame< waiting for (my work around code already posted solving this> for me), will no longer be one. Apache is _VERY CLOSE_ to 100% in my environment.   Any questions?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:41:47 +0100f( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>. Subject: Re: Urgent!!!!!!!!-Process Management) Message-ID: <3CF7293B.3DC0B06A@127.0.0.1>h   Charith wrote: > C > Could some one plese let me now how process management is done iny > openVMS operating system.e  E Very elegantly. Hoff's reply tells you where to start but I would sayoC that OpenVMS grants you the mechanisms to use the best of all known G operating system scheduling systems in popular use; real time, priority,F based round robin, class scheduling. Sadly the VAXeln type environmentF is not directly available to Alpha users though we have some inventiveE folks that build it on a UNIX system, MOP boot it, then NFS mount ther+ VMS datastructures required for processing.s  G Also remember that the VM in VMS stands for virtual memory, an integral  part.i  F And all of this is performed with security and file access features toF die for. I'll not mention networking and application capabilities withF clustering, but I just have, but versus just about any other system onE the planet they'll blow your mind. The key difference is this was alle designed in, not kludged on.  B I'd be interested to know why you're asking the question, is it an= assignment, casual research, or something more, I'm genuinelye interested.y -- .( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:27:47 +0200 2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)G Message-ID: <3cf733e8$0$19912$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>   9 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrage! news:3CF532E0.5CDC7F00@aaa.com...d > Oh, another note.o >h9 > I think one of the 3-part disk defraggers had something 6 > called PERFORMANCE_METER.COM or something like that.) > No, it was CALCULATE_VUPS.COM, I think.  > 8 > Anyway, a command file that gave a rather accurate VUP > value of your system.o >  > Anyone remember that ? > ? > It would be nice to test that with the emulators on different  > host systems.s >e > Jan-Erik Sderholm.n >i > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:u > >  > > Kevin Handy wrote: > > >  > > >pC > > > Don't expect to get Alpha speed out of the emulator, but on anE > > > 1Ghz intel machine you will see somewhere around the speed of a  > > > microVAX 3100. > > >d > >  > > 3100/20 or 3100/98 ? > > = > > There is a huge difference (1 to 20+) in perf between the  > > different models.e > >n* > > It's like saying "the speed of an PC". > >o > > Jan-Erik Sderholm.e  E It was (and still is) diskeeper (by executive software international)t5 http://www.execsoft.co.uk/products/openvms/dk7vms.htm9 It does that test upon startup   Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:04:51 +0200O- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>C# Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?%' Message-ID: <3CF71280.A21DE45A@Free.fr>   M Are you suggesting that these Customers should purchase an Alpha to move from 
 VAX to IA-64?t   D.   norm lastovica wrote:i > = > similar to moving from vax to alpha, most properly behavingsD > user-mode programs should compile and link on Alpha and ultimatelyA > on iVMS.  There will be some changes required (perhaps based onuB > the languages used), but I would expect that it wouldn't be thatA > hard.  VESTing (aka DECmigrate) would be the absoluate last way  > that I'd try to do it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:19:31 +0100:( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?w) Message-ID: <3CF72403.A34FC1B3@127.0.0.1>%   Didier Morandi wrote:2 > O > Are you suggesting that these Customers should purchase an Alpha to move fromi > VAX to IA-64?A  A I think that's quite sound advice. As engineering are saying, thesG lessons learnt in the past from VAX to Alpha are being put to good use,fD and customers can learn now from the lesson of those that have movedD from VAX to Alpha to aid their transition, and by leaving room for aD third architecture, if and when they want to do that, it is, as MarkE Gorham stated, "a no brainer" which I think he means (as I would say) 
 "easy peasy".r  G Compaq were, and hp are, offering customer performance assurances, so I.G would use these to advantage, by using that assurance when investing inlG the Alpha now, in the aim of moving to Itanium, and using the assurance%2 as your guarantee of the right business direction.   -- 4( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 06:00:53 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: VAX to ia64 migration?E= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205310500.2e277bd3@posting.google.com>c  \ Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message news:<3CF71280.A21DE45A@Free.fr>...O > Are you suggesting that these Customers should purchase an Alpha to move from  > VAX to IA-64?s >  > D. >  > norm lastovica wrote:v > > ? > > similar to moving from vax to alpha, most properly behavingtF > > user-mode programs should compile and link on Alpha and ultimatelyC > > on iVMS.  There will be some changes required (perhaps based oneD > > the languages used), but I would expect that it wouldn't be thatC > > hard.  VESTing (aka DECmigrate) would be the absoluate last wayp > > that I'd try to do it.  D if they need to, yes!  you don't need to by a gs320 to vest over ...B just buy a cheap used box w/license ... you can get a dec pws500auD w/license for around $1000 right now ... other alphastations/serversF are even cheaper ... 1 cheap box to vest and you are done ... actuallyA there are people running on alpha w/vested apps maintained on vaxcB to gain the speed benefits ... when we went from or vaxstations toE alphaservers, we immediately gained 400% speed advantage on our apps.o   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:41:49 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>oH Subject: visual formatting (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading); Message-ID: <01KIDSGGGABM96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>w  E > I did say (loudly enough for Mark to hear I think), "Now if only iteH > was Star Office under VMS". Or probably Open Office unless Sun could eG > persuaded to support the port themselves. Maybe that's what Andrew is  > really doing :-) > F > Star/Open Office would have no problem in createing/displaying these > PowerPoint slides.  G Often, I've heard people say "I need PowerPoint" when they really mean yF "I need a programme to produce and display slides for a presentation".F On VMS, or any other platform, one can of course produce slides with, . say, LaTeX and display them with XDVI, GS etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:27:48 +0200w1 From: JeffM <Jeffrey.Mutonho@softwarefutures.com>s Subject: VMS to UNIX/LINUX2 Message-ID: <3CF75024.8030300@softwarefutures.com>  I I'm writing(in C++, on VMS) a application that needs to talk to a remote aG UNIX box and be able to browse the file system on the remote box , and e' place files in some specific directory?nF What's the best way of doing that?Sockets?Or invoking FTP from within  the application?Any ideas?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:37:07 +0200V9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>B Subject: Re: VMS to UNIX/LINUX' Message-ID: <3CF75253.9CB39C18@aaa.com>   * Export the directory from the UNIX box and/ NFS mount on the VMS box. Security concerns and   file format conversions aside...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t   JeffM wrote: > J > I'm writing(in C++, on VMS) a application that needs to talk to a remoteH > UNIX box and be able to browse the file system on the remote box , and) > place files in some specific directory?gG > What's the best way of doing that?Sockets?Or invoking FTP from withinn > the application?Any ideas?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:16:37 +0200r1 From: JeffM <Jeffrey.Mutonho@softwarefutures.com>  Subject: Re: VMS to UNIX/LINUX2 Message-ID: <3CF75B95.9040700@softwarefutures.com>  H I've worked with NFS a lot on  UNIX/LINUX platforms...but I'm still new > to VMS.Where can I find information on setting up NFS on  VMS?   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:u  , > Export the directory from the UNIX box and1 > NFS mount on the VMS box. Security concerns anda" > file format conversions aside... >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  >  > JeffM wrote: > J >>I'm writing(in C++, on VMS) a application that needs to talk to a remoteH >>UNIX box and be able to browse the file system on the remote box , and) >>place files in some specific directory? G >>What's the best way of doing that?Sockets?Or invoking FTP from withinn >>the application?Any ideas? >>   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 06:27:57 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i Subject: Re: VMS to UNIX/LINUX3 Message-ID: <LeIleZAW84cX@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  f In article <3CF75B95.9040700@softwarefutures.com>, JeffM <Jeffrey.Mutonho@softwarefutures.com> writes:J > I've worked with NFS a lot on  UNIX/LINUX platforms...but I'm still new @ > to VMS.Where can I find information on setting up NFS on  VMS?  B In the documentation for the IP product you have installed on your? machine, typically Multinet, TCPware or Compaq TCP/IP Services.l   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 07:46:03 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: VMS5.2 vs OpenVMS7.2O3 Message-ID: <079Mrc8Ruf2B@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <n5ocfucvlprrjen672qdmthck41hqok8l4@4ax.com>, Mr Beermat <beermat.geo@yahoo.com> writes: G > alas, OpenVMS6.2 exhibits the same intolerance of the good old games.)) > Have to load 5.5-2 onto this 3100 then!g > H > Unless someone can tell me of other good games (especially multiplayer > things like Tank) for 7.2r  D    There are several good games available on what was originally theE    DECUS Library site (see the FAQ).  The last time I looked the web lG    links were still a little broken, but a little browsing around with wH    FTP will get you to just about anything that the web pages advertise.  G    I recommend you start with the DECUS Flight Simulator, you'll likelyt    find a tank inside.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:22:52 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>23 Subject: Re: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)) ; Message-ID: <01KIDF8HRZ8M984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>Q  8 > >    http://www.astro.multivax.de:8000/phillip/vup.com > G > Well, I tried to access that url address but I was told that DNS name 2 > is not found.  That might be misspellings or so.  2 No, it's OK.  Several folks accessed it yesterday.  C At the moment, the machine IS inaccessible, but not due to DNS but  I (probably) due to a local problem.  It is 500 km away, but as luck would s0 have it I will be there tonight and take a look.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:28:30 +0200s2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)3 Subject: Re: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))t; Message-ID: <3cf7a4ae.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>m  : Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:: > > >    http://www.astro.multivax.de:8000/phillip/vup.com > > I > > Well, I tried to access that url address but I was told that DNS nameB4 > > is not found.  That might be misspellings or so. >n4 > No, it's OK.  Several folks accessed it yesterday. >oE > At the moment, the machine IS inaccessible, but not due to DNS but  K > (probably) due to a local problem.  It is 500 km away, but as luck would r2 > have it I will be there tonight and take a look.  B As it's not the longest DCL ever posted to c.o.v., here's the post0 (slightly edited, e.g. email addresses removed):   <QUOTE>a Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsa From: xxxxx (Andreas W Wylach)* Subject: Re: What dp VUPs really measure ?' Message-ID: <E0o2yE.CA7@ifwb.wupper.de>d# Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:20:38 GMTm) Organization: CDrei - Wuppertal - Germanya   Mike Umbricht writes:t |>Steve Lionel writes: |>>Uri Raz writes:H |>>|> After reading some articles trying to compare SPEC measures to VUP@ |>>|> measures, I've started wondering what VUPs really measure. |>>dM |>> VUPs are similar in concept to the SPEC suite in that there is a specificsL |>> collection of benchmark programs that are run and a performance range is |>J |> Where can I get the code for the VUP benchmark programs?  Do you have a/ |> reference that details how VUPs are defined?e |>8 |>> The VUP rating is mostly of historical interest now. |>L |> I am with a group called the Retro-Computing Society of RI - a user groupK |> for individuals that collect older computer systems.  I am interested intJ |> running the benchmark on our 750.  (Yes, I know what the answer is, but) |> I'd like to see how it is calculated.)r  # Here we go, the dcl code for VUPS :o   $! CALCULATE_VUPS:   $!
 $ set noon( $ orig_privs        = f$setprv("ALTPRI")( $ process_priority  = f$getjpi(0,"PRIB")5 $ cpu_multiplier    = 10		! VAX = 10 - Alpha/AXP = 40 5 $ cpu_round_add     =  1		! VAX =  1 - Alpha/AXP =  9?' $ cpu_round_divide  = cpu_round_add + 1y* $ init_counter      = cpu_multiplier * 525 $ init_loop_maximum = 205o* $ start_cputime     = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ loop_index        = 0  $ 10$:! $     loop_index = loop_index + 1 8 $     if loop_index .ne. init_loop_maximum then goto 10$% $ end_cputime  = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM")eC $ init_vups    = ((init_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + - H                    cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_divide5 $ loop_maximum = (init_vups * init_loop_maximum) / 10e0 $ base_counter = (init_counter * init_vups) / 10 $ vups         = 0 $ times_through_loop = 0 $ 20$:) $    start_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM")e $    loop_index = 0o	 $    30$:n$ $        loop_index = loop_index + 16 $        if loop_index .ne. loop_maximum then goto 30$' $    end_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") B $    new_vups = ((base_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + -G                   cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_dividee) $    if  new_vups .eq. vups then goto 40$- $    vups = new_vups0 $    times_through_loop = times_through_loop + 1, $ if times_through_loop .le. 5 then goto 20$ $ 40$:" $ new_privs = f$setprv(orig_privs)< $ set message /nofacility/noidentification/noseverity/notext1 $ ASSIGN/SYSTEM/EXEC  'vups'  MACHINE_VUPS_RATINGa4 $ set message /facility/identification/severity/text: $ write sys$output "Approximate System VUPs Rating :  ", -;                    vups / 10,".", vups - ((vups / 10) * 10)  $ exit  	 Have fun.w   see ya,t Andreasw </QUOTE>  : It was followed-up by a word of warning from Steve Lionel:   <QUOTE>IH Just so that everyone understands that the "VUPS" this DCL code comes up9 with is not the same as the VUPS rating Digital assigns.   </QUOTE>   cu,a   Martin -- cD                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deuE  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/s8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:39:51 -0700a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>i3 Subject: RE: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS))i9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEJLFBAA.tom@kednos.com>   < I would be curious to know if someone has made the VAX/Alpha7 comparison for, say, a collection of Cobol programs, tol= determine, for example,  what the frequency equivalency, i.e.o; how many MHz Alpha = 100 MHz Vax  for 21164 cpus and later?l  ; C code is no good for this measure, cause it is too easy to  fake it.   >-----Original Message-----n: >From: Martin Vorlaender [mailto:martin@radiogaga.harz.de]# >Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:29 AMV >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com4 >Subject: Re: VUPs (RE: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)) >s >s; >Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:k; >> > >    http://www.astro.multivax.de:8000/phillip/vup.comn >> >J >> > Well, I tried to access that url address but I was told that DNS name5 >> > is not found.  That might be misspellings or so.0 >>5 >> No, it's OK.  Several folks accessed it yesterday.> >>E >> At the moment, the machine IS inaccessible, but not due to DNS but0K >> (probably) due to a local problem.  It is 500 km away, but as luck would 3 >> have it I will be there tonight and take a look.y >mC >As it's not the longest DCL ever posted to c.o.v., here's the postl1 >(slightly edited, e.g. email addresses removed):s >h ><QUOTE> >Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >From: xxxxx (Andreas W Wylach)u+ >Subject: Re: What dp VUPs really measure ?c( >Message-ID: <E0o2yE.CA7@ifwb.wupper.de>$ >Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:20:38 GMT* >Organization: CDrei - Wuppertal - Germany >k >Mike Umbricht writes: >|>Steve Lionel writes:e >|>>Uri Raz writes: I >|>>|> After reading some articles trying to compare SPEC measures to VUPSA >|>>|> measures, I've started wondering what VUPs really measure.  >|>>C >|>> VUPs are similar in concept to the SPEC suite in that there ise >a specifici8 >|>> collection of benchmark programs that are run and a >performance range ist >|>tK >|> Where can I get the code for the VUP benchmark programs?  Do you have as0 >|> reference that details how VUPs are defined? >|>i9 >|>> The VUP rating is mostly of historical interest now.  >|>nB >|> I am with a group called the Retro-Computing Society of RI - a >user groupaL >|> for individuals that collect older computer systems.  I am interested inK >|> running the benchmark on our 750.  (Yes, I know what the answer is, butb* >|> I'd like to see how it is calculated.) >V$ >Here we go, the dcl code for VUPS : >3 >$! CALCULATE_VUPS:7 >$!w >$ set noonh) >$ orig_privs        = f$setprv("ALTPRI")a) >$ process_priority  = f$getjpi(0,"PRIB")F6 >$ cpu_multiplier    = 10		! VAX = 10 - Alpha/AXP = 406 >$ cpu_round_add     =  1		! VAX =  1 - Alpha/AXP =  9( >$ cpu_round_divide  = cpu_round_add + 1+ >$ init_counter      = cpu_multiplier * 525O >$ init_loop_maximum = 205+ >$ start_cputime     = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM")P >$ loop_index        = 0 >$ 10$:n" >$     loop_index = loop_index + 19 >$     if loop_index .ne. init_loop_maximum then goto 10$o& >$ end_cputime  = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM")D >$ init_vups    = ((init_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + -I >                   cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_divideo6 >$ loop_maximum = (init_vups * init_loop_maximum) / 101 >$ base_counter = (init_counter * init_vups) / 10  >$ vups         = 03 >$ times_through_loop = 0s >$ 20$:i* >$    start_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") >$    loop_index = 0
 >$    30$:% >$        loop_index = loop_index + 1 7 >$        if loop_index .ne. loop_maximum then goto 30$k( >$    end_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM")C >$    new_vups = ((base_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + -hH >                  cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_divide* >$    if  new_vups .eq. vups then goto 40$ >$    vups = new_vupsi1 >$    times_through_loop = times_through_loop + 1e- >$ if times_through_loop .le. 5 then goto 20$o >$ 40$:i# >$ new_privs = f$setprv(orig_privs)s= >$ set message /nofacility/noidentification/noseverity/notexta2 >$ ASSIGN/SYSTEM/EXEC  'vups'  MACHINE_VUPS_RATING5 >$ set message /facility/identification/severity/texto; >$ write sys$output "Approximate System VUPs Rating :  ", -l< >                   vups / 10,".", vups - ((vups / 10) * 10) >$ exitt >w
 >Have fun. >t >see ya,	 >Andreasw 	 ></QUOTE>S >g; >It was followed-up by a word of warning from Steve Lionel:d >y ><QUOTE>I >Just so that everyone understands that the "VUPS" this DCL code comes up:9 >with is not the same as the VUPS rating Digital assigns.X	 ></QUOTE>g >i >cu,	 >  Martin  >--2E >                        | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmers2 > VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deF > Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/9 > Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.deo >A >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002a >h ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:20:22 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>s: Subject: Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash)5 Message-ID: <ad80r7$usvj0$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>b  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagee# news:3CF50D05.B2912A68@127.0.0.1...  >...  D Thanks for all of the details, most of that I knew, some of it I hadH forgotten. We've taken the question to the HP (it was only three or fourI months ago that I noticed myself saying Compaq more often than DEC, now IiI have to re-learn again :( ) support since I can not find the answer to my. specific question anywhere.   K The actual question that I should have posted is (I'm just posting this for E information, we pay enough for support that I'll let them give us thet	 answers);s  5 We have two nodes that we want to cluster on a HSG80.l  J Each node will have 1 vote, the quorum disk will have one vote for a total of three votes.b  > Since this is FC the SCS traffic must go through the Ethernet.  I If the Ethernet breaks then the SCS traffic would be lost. Each node will H then still have its own FC path to the quorum disk. Each node could thenJ form a cluster between it and the quorum disk unless there was some escapeJ mechanism in place to handle this type of problem, knowing VMS I know thatL their has to be some escape mechanism, but what is it? I thought I had heardL or read before that when this happens each node would write something to theK quorum disk basically saying to the other node "I'm still here, but you arerK not, if you see this then one of us has to CLUEXIT." Then the node with the-E highest SCSSYSTEMID (or lowest?) would then CLUEXIT. But based on themF answers I've seen to the question what I remember must not be correct.  K The first answer I received back from the support group said that there canGI only be one active Quorum Disk Watcher in the cluster and that is how therK cluster avoids being partitioned, but I asked them again if there was a waylG to say that I want one particular node to CLUEXIT if this ever happens.v   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:32:30 -0400p1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>V: Subject: Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash)2 Message-ID: <3CF7978E.F1160CC6@clarityconnect.com>  H This is one of the drawbacks of a 2 node cluster.  If you set them up toF be equal peers with a quorum disk then you are effectively letting theF connection manager randomly choose which node lives or dies if the SCS" paths between these nodes go away.  E Since it appears you have a need to have one node be more 'important' F than the other node I would question why you would choose to make themF equal peers?  Is it just for the convenient of being able to take downA the 'more important' node?  Also if the 2 nodes are close enough, E physically, then adding extra NICs and direct cabling them is usually=E seen as an excellent option and with V7.3-1 you will have a number of F SCACP goodies to prefer individual SCS connections thru individual SCS	 circuits.n   Peter Weaver wrote:i  cM > The first answer I received back from the support group said that there can K > only be one active Quorum Disk Watcher in the cluster and that is how the M > cluster avoids being partitioned, but I asked them again if there was a wayaI > to say that I want one particular node to CLUEXIT if this ever happens.i   -- ?C Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or soM 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:25:20 +0200e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>. Subject: Re: xml and all thate) Message-ID: <3CF779C0.8D7DEBCF@gtech.com>n   Chris Sharman wrote:M > I had a root around on the e-business cd yesterday, and on the Compaq site.e> > Found documentation on xalan and xerces, but no actual code.  = You can download Xerces and Xalan as both C/C++ and Java fromr the Compaq site.  M > How should I parse it (typically 3-8 events, 6 fields per event) - is xalane > the way to go, or not ?o   Xalan is XSLT. Xerces is XML.m  3 I would go for the SAX API with the Xerces library.t  2 > The xml as supplied looks lousy in all browsers:. > ie displays raw xml - not very user friendly< > mozilla strips all the tags, and displays unformatted text. > lynx downloads it rather than displaying it.C > I think it just needs a stylesheet or something - is that right ?   = Yes. XML is pure content - no layout. You need something like.- either a CSS or XSL stylesheet to display it.r   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:27:59 +0200n= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>n Subject: Re: xml and all thata) Message-ID: <3CF77A5F.4406DFEA@gtech.com>l   Bob Knowles wrote:K > As for browsers, I saw a demo of an XML-enabled browser 18 months ago, so7N > the things certainly exist. I don't know about support in IE though - it may@ > be there already, hiding amid the Internet Options somewhere).  > MSIE 5.x and 6.x supports XML (an upgrade of the XML component is recommendable for 5.x).  ! I think NS 6.x also supports XML.h   Arne   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:18:52 +0100 (MET)h9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>(, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins; Message-ID: <01KIDF0OFBHE984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  M > |> No different than pricing gasoline in units of a tenth of a cent.  This e/ > |> is of course rounded to the nearest cent. a > H > If you mean that when the pupm says $1.499 for gas I'm actually paying' > $1.50 you are most assuredly wrong.  e  H No.  Well, if you buy 1 gallon, they WILL charge you $1.50.  If you buy 4 100 gallons, then you will pay $149.90, not $150.00.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:40:17 +0200d& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins$ Message-ID: <3CF79961.7DE1@c-lab.de>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: >   H > The val-let/val-lay thing is curious; "val-let" is the British EnglishG > pronunciation - the English have a fine history of pronouncing FrenchsN > loanwords by English rules (which makes perfect sense, when you consider howM > much of English is derived from Norman French, and how weird it would be tobO > have to know the etymology of any given word to know what pronunciation rules P > to apply to it), and some people think anyone who pronounces  French loanwordsK > by French rules is putting on airs (unless they _are_ French, of course)    F This is always my biggest problem, having learned French shortly afterF English in school. Rather than imaging what awfull pronounciation thisF or that obviously french leanword has, I'd rather pronounce it French,H and because it's more regular in French than these regional 'let's speakC it this way, this year' jollies of English/American pronounciation.   4 So, you should also include other Europeans here ...      6 > >(So, just how far off topic can this subject get??) >  > Trying to find out.t >  Tried.   --  * Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.300 ************************