1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 02 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 606       Contents:
 Re: <None>+ Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly? + Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly? ' Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?  Re: equivalent of touch in VMSE Re: GNV: BASH questions and source code location ?, Was: Re: $ RECALL 5 Re: How to do inverse video, bold, etc. in Vax Pro-C?  Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site/ java on VMS -- again (was Re: HP Advocacy Site)  Re: NTP (W32Time)  Re: Remote Console access  Re: Remote Console access  Re: TCL/TK on OpenVMS  [very OT] OS X, the (bad?) turn   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 15:00:19 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: <None> K Message-ID: <7MRw9.137615$mxk1.127401@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   D "Daryl Jones" <jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message7 news:8a646952.0211011535.5cd3d36d@posting.google.com...  > D > I did a sort test once on a VAX750 against a IBM 4381. The IBM wasH > faster. However, IBM will use its IO processor for sorting rather than: > its main processor. Thereby, cpu run-time being shorter.  G We did a conversion of an APL application from IBM 4381 to VAX/VMS cira  1981.   J The 4381 took between 5-10x longer than the VAX to do the calculations andE post each transaction (it was a money market/foreign exchange trading J system), and that was with the 4381 being populated with more memory. BothK machines were dedicated to this single application, with the same number of L users. The only difference between the two machine as far as the application4 was concerned was the APL interpreter that was used.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:15:25 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>4 Subject: Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly?) Message-ID: <3DC397AD.1080902@vajhoej.dk>   
 stu wrote:  E > I need to be able to access the vax vms keyboard directly so that I B > can capture key presses as they occur, including the arrow keys. > F > When you use the getchar() library routine (which advertises that itF > gets a character from stdin), it actually doesn't get any charactersH > until the user has pressed the ENTER key.  And, any arrow keys pressed > are filtered out of stdin. > 3 > Is there a way for a C program to do what I need?    Try look at:/    http://www.vajhoej.dk/anonymous/MISC/GETCH.C    Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 02 12:44:10 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly?) Message-ID: <G4Oa5V9ZgaBM@elias.decus.ch>   S In article <us3v1s5m5tue92@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes: # > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: W > : In article <us3fjsdd4him88@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes: % > :>stu <aronoffs@hotmail.com> wrote: I > :>: I need to be able to access the vax vms keyboard directly so that I F > :>: can capture key presses as they occur, including the arrow keys. > :>N > :>Why does VMS make it so hard?  If they fixed ioctl() this would be as easy > :>on VMS as it is on Unix. > * > : What's *hard* about doing it on VMS?   > P > : Why does unix make it so hard?  I'd think it is more difficult to do on unix' > : but then I'm not a unix programmer.  > F > On Unix you set the tt control with ioctl() and then call getchar(). >  > That's hard?  + For someone who hasn't done it before, yes.   D I've just had a swift look at "man ioctl" and while I could probablyB figure it out eventually, it would be swifter to scour the net for an example, or ask a newsgroup.   G Coincidentally, nearly 20 years ago I had to deal with the same problem C myself, but from COBOL. Now, _that_ could be described as hard with F the compiler which was available then, but the I/O and System ServicesI manuals got me there. (A novice might find it harder nowadays, since some E of the more useful examples of calling system services from COBOL got 5 dropped from the COBOL documentation many moons ago.)    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:05:06 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?K Message-ID: <rdeininger-0211020905060001@1cust151.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   5 In article <3DC34485.1FA8A416@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   L >What would be needed is an improvement in the VMS queue management to allow0 >DCPS information to be stored inside the queue.  F I agree that more functionality and flexibility should be added to theH queue management subsystem.  Long overdue.  Effort expended in improvingB management of queues in the individual layered products is diluted unnecessarily, IMHO.  C Over the years, functionality has built up, and gotten "frozen", in I several of the "outlying" printing products.  Each of them uses different I methods.  When new functionality _has_ been added to the central queueing J system, the other products have been slow to make use of it.  All of whichG contributes to making it harder than it should be to maintain a complex  printing environment.   M >Or perhaps add just one more field to the queue definition that could hold a 6 >filename which DCPS would use as a configuation file. > L >I.E. for a queue that has the DCPS symbiont, the symbiont would look ta theP >queue's "config" file to extract all the optiosn the user wants for that queue.  7 Good ideas.  A queue might have several new attributes: G 1. A config file, with the contents and format defined by the symbiont. I 2. A DCL startup command procedure, executed automatically when the queue ' starts, before the symbiont takes over. J 3. More flexible or more numerous "characteristics" for the queue.  Let meF define keyword/value pairs, and of course I'll want $getqui to give me access to them.   J With tools like these, and probably more I haven't thought of, the layeredI products could make a clean division between defining queues (which would G still involve lots of pesky details), and starting them (which would be : almost automatic, and uniform between different products).  F Oh, and the queue manager should have the built-in ability to save andF restore its internal database, and to migrate its files to a different0 location, without turning the queue manager off.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:17:54 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMS ) Message-ID: <3DC39842.8060104@vajhoej.dk>    Kesav Tadimeti wrote:    > Hello all,M > What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX this  > would be touch.    Try see:  / http://arne.vajhoej.dk/~arne/vms/tip/touch.html    Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2002 07:50:22 -0600 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)N Subject: Re: GNV: BASH questions and source code location ?, Was: Re: $ RECALL3 Message-ID: <$8DhKZRW19j8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <WVbA0e60Np$P@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > L > I cannot find the GNV source code at the sourceforge site and I can't findG > any VMS specific changes or building support in the latest version of ) > readline available at the FSF web site.  >   H For the record, the source code is at the sourceforge site, just like it
 should be.  N [Some advice: Never go looking for something when you are not feeling well...]   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 16:09:36 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>> Subject: Re: How to do inverse video, bold, etc. in Vax Pro-C?5 Message-ID: <aq0pro$5cbvj$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   / "stu" <aronoffs@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht 7 news:80d4088b.0211011113.56ead662@posting.google.com... I > Is there a way in Pro-C to display text in bold, inverse, etc. like VMS  does?  >  > Thanks  J SMG routines are stable and language independent. But it is not a protable environment K (outside VMS that is). The other alternative is to find a VT220/VT320/VT100  user manual.L The required escape codes are documented in those and you can build your own set of output routines.   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:55:24 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>  Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site 5 Message-ID: <3DC3A10C.7B70FC9C@swissonline.delete.ch>    Syltrem wrote: >  > I didn't answer the survey. J > I replied to the email saying that I will complete the survey as soon as$ > OpenVMS is listed as a "platform".. > That has worked before with other companies. > Let`s see what HP does.  > 	 > Syltrem     C Not replying specifically to you but to a bunch of postings in this 
 thread ...  A The survey looks like it is about Java development and as I found D recently, I would just about need a lobotomy to use java on VMS if I- don't use a database for the underlying data.   F (As a matter of interest I canned my original plans and will use CGI &1 HTML because it is far superior for what I need.)   H As was mentioned in c.o.v, java is a "lowest-common-denominator" form ofC C on unix.  It can't use any file structure more advanced than flat F files in stream_LF format.  It has an interface to execute C programs,H but then needs interfacing routines to talk to any other language and itH needs to spawn a new process if you want to execute a command procedure.  G It is truly "Windows for the web" in its limitations, and unfortunately  it is at least as pervasive.    F Personally I would like to see a whole new tool for VMS web servers toF show people what can be done and to provide them with capabilities wayE beyond java.  Sure it would have to work with java on the web-browser G because that is where you really do need lowest common denominator.  On ? the VMS end we could have some decent RMS access, decent system F services, decent hooks for in-house code regardless of language, and aF whole lot more.  You know, I can't help the feeling that Digital wouldD have written this kind of thing if the company was still around. :-)    E The survey might have been about java but given that it excluded VMS, G perhaps it would have been smart of HP to make some comment why VMS was D being excluded.  All they need to say was that it was in relation to) java on various Windows and Unix systems.      cheers   John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:21:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site , Message-ID: <3DC417A6.6977728E@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:F > Personally I would like to see a whole new tool for VMS web servers  >  On A > the VMS end we could have some decent RMS access, decent system H > services, decent hooks for in-house code regardless of language, and aH > whole lot more.  You know, I can't help the feeling that Digital wouldF > have written this kind of thing if the company was still around. :-)   It was called ALLIN1.   I I had written a jacket routine that interfaced with the OSU web server to J obtain transactions and then call whatever ALLIN1 script/function had beenL specified in the URL.  You can plug-in your own code that runs either in theN main process as a shareable image, or in a subprocess, or use all the featuresK of ALL-IN-1 such as RMS access (very neatly implemented), UAF access, queue I information access, and of course all the text formatting and boiletplate 4 processing (great for generating the html response).  M The ALLIN1 folks had developped a differebt type of web access to allow usres H to access documents from the web (think of a glorified yahmail). But theJ potential to use A1 as a CGI server engine was untapped, and it is a shame\ because ALLIn1 offered so many of the tools that are useful in processing such transactions.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2002 10:53:10 -0800 : From: craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry)8 Subject: java on VMS -- again (was Re: HP Advocacy Site)= Message-ID: <7f15589f.0211021053.1c9270fc@posting.google.com>   5 In article <3DC3A10C.7B70FC9C@swissonline.delete.ch>, 3  John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote:   C > The survey looks like it is about Java development and as I found F > recently, I would just about need a lobotomy to use java on VMS if I/ > don't use a database for the underlying data.   : So use a database.  Or buy (or build) an interface to RMS.  H > (As a matter of interest I canned my original plans and will use CGI &3 > HTML because it is far superior for what I need.)   F That's like saying TCP/IP is superior to ethernet; you are conflating H two entirely different pieces of the same puzzle.   Whether you use CGI = and HTML is independent of what development language you use.   J > As was mentioned in c.o.v, java is a "lowest-common-denominator" form of > C on unix.    @ Well, *you* keep saying that, but this tells us more about your ' preconceptions than it does about java.   : >  It can't use any file structure more advanced than flat > files in stream_LF format.    D Having to know the details of file structure is a liability, not an G asset, to the application programmer. And there are ways of connecting  @ to structured data that don't require such knowledge.  For some H applications, XML (a document structure, not a file structure) would be G a good way to do this.  For others, you need an API to the engine that  E implements the structure, whether that engine is RMS or a relational   database.     , > It has an interface to execute C programs,D > but then needs interfacing routines to talk to any other language   A I agree it would be nice to see more glue capabilities for other  G languages than C.  One way to get at existing logic in other languages  G would be to implement it as a service accessible through some standard  	 protocol.    > and itJ > needs to spawn a new process if you want to execute a command procedure.   What language doesn't?  H > Personally I would like to see a whole new tool for VMS web servers toH > show people what can be done and to provide them with capabilities way > beyond java.    H Well, that would be the Microsoft approach.  I'd much rather see VMS be @ the platform of choice for deploying applications based on open 
 standards.   > OnA > the VMS end we could have some decent RMS access, decent system H > services, decent hooks for in-house code regardless of language, and a > whole lot more.   D There is nothing wrong with wanting these things, but these are not E arguments against java.  So you want a way to access RMS from java?   H Have you gone to any of the likely suspects (Attunity, CONNX, EasySoft) H and inquired whether they have or are developing such a thing?  A quick @ look shows that CONNX has a JDBC interface to RMS indexed files:  . <http://www.connx.com/products/connx-rms.html>  ? I haven't used it so I don't know how good it is, but there is  E absolutely no grounds for saying RMS access from java is unavailable.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:36:28 -0800( From: "neo [mvp outlook]" <neo@mvps.org> Subject: Re: NTP (W32Time)* Message-ID: <u0VJP3ogCHA.2460@tkmsftngp09>  K Assuming that VMS can acquire time via sntp, then the only thing that needs I to be done is ensure that vms can connect to your win2k box via port 123. J Outside of that and not knowing whether or not your win2k box is a DC, youJ might find http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;q223184. useful.  (Hint: Review the value for LocalNTP)  A "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message * news:AByw9.37$wN1.22953@news.uswest.net...I > I need to open my Windows 2000 SNTP services to VMS 7.3-1.  Anyone know  how 
 > to do this?  > 	 > Thanks,  > Mike Ober. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:35:12 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)" Subject: Re: Remote Console accessK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0211020935120001@1cust151.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   
 In articleI <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B0E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, ( "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:   >Robert, > F >>> IMHO, the Consoleworks/PC/Windows package that is foisted with the@ >Alphaserver GS series is horrid.  What were they thinking?  TheG >Billy-ware has a seizure, and your GS-320 either hangs or crashes as a  >result. <<< > E >If Billy-ware hangs or crashes, then it should not impact OpenVMS at  >all.   I If the steenking billy-box yanks on the alpha's console port hard enough, " it can leave VMS in a lot of pain.  B >If it does, then imho, OpenVMS (or Tru64) has a bug. ConsoleWorksH >is simply collecting, analyzing and storing the ascii output being sent+ >to it (from any system/device it supports)   G I don't know the names of the various components and layers that are in I the typical "console" billy-box.  I agree that collecting, analyzing, and J storing should not effect VMS.  But transmitting is a different story, andD something in that evil box is able to capture keystrokes from the PCF keyboard and transmit them (modified) to the alpha's console port.  IfH that component falls over, or becomes possessed by a billy-demon, it can! do damage to the VMS environment.   H When a PC "hangs", it's usually not really dead.  The processor is stillJ executing code from hell.  Sometimes that code seems to concentrate on the
 console port.   I I've seen the PC take out GS-series systems several times.  I've seen the C PC keep the GS from powering on completely.  I've seen irate system ? managers form a posse, with wire cutters, and go after the PC.  J Disconnecting it from the GS box and installing a VT terminal rendered theJ GS box operational.  I know of customers who have logged calls complainingI about the PC console management.  One root cause I heard about was simple J -- a corner of a notebook was accidentally leaning on the space bar of theH PC, and the GS system (this one was running Tru64) _went away_ until theB notebook was found and removed.  (After which the PC "went away".)  G Oh, and did I mention that the billy-ware on the PC is a perfect little J petri-dish for hosting all sorts of viruses?  Totally harmless, of course,J unless one of them types a CTRL-P while your alpha is trying to process an important transaction.  B I've never heard of a single system manager who was happy with theF PC-based console on a GS-series alphaserver.  But then I don't get out much.   = I don't think billy-ware should be permitted in a data center . environment.  I guess that makes me a radical.  H >Btw - ConsoleWorks server can run natively on a VMS box (VAX or Alpha).5 >It does not need Wintel if Cust does not want it.=20   @ I've heard this rumor, but I've never seen it in non-vapor form.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 18:47:07 +0100 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> " Subject: Re: Remote Console access6 Message-ID: <3dc40f9c$0$46607$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   Robert Deininger wrote:        [ Snip ... ] > I >>Btw - ConsoleWorks server can run natively on a VMS box (VAX or Alpha). 6 >>It does not need Wintel if Cust does not want it.=20 >  > B > I've heard this rumor, but I've never seen it in non-vapor form.  H Yes, there is a VMS based client for Consoleworks. However, it connects H to the billybox first. This billybox is the only system that has access " to the DECserver90M inside the GS.  E If you already have Console Manager (or CommandIT) in place, you CAN  F ditch the billybox. Just connect the DECserver to your network in the 6 normal fashion and use LAT (or TCP/IP if you have to).  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:22:43 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: TCL/TK on OpenVMS) Message-ID: <3DC39963.6040908@vajhoej.dk>    Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote:  9 > I would like to know if TCL/TK is available on OpenVMS?  > D > If yes, can someone send me the URL from where I can download it . >      Try:    ' http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/vms-tcl.html    Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:12:35 +01004 From: Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr (Didier Morandi)( Subject: [very OT] OS X, the (bad?) turnB Message-ID: <1fl0gq2.y1a5e41o4iz4cN%Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>  H I finally decided to install OS X on my iMac because I wanted to try theG new Apple iSynch tool (yeah, I know it's a beta version and it does not  seem to synch anything yet :-)  > I was perfectly happy with 9.2.2, doing all what I need for my stand-alone business.    Now, I have OS X.    1. where is the selector? @ I still have the Classic selector access, so I do not need OS X.  4 2. where is the background image customization menu?B I used the Classic one, it did what I asked but without result (no image)G I used the OS X one, all images are greyed out from the "choose a file"  window. B I dragged an image into the bg window area, it came too wide on my) screen and no way (found) to change this.   , 3. where is the Remote Access control panel?B I tried to use the Classic one: "this application or control panelA cannot be used in the Classic environment" (free translation from  French).  F 4. Where is the automatic indexation feature within Sherlock? Should IG really wait for a new indexation each time I open it? Boring. I want my  nightly processing back.  < 5. Why does the Classic indexation process not work anymore?   Etc...   D.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.606 ************************