1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 03 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 607       Contents:+ Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly? + Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly? + Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly? + Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly? ' Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP? ' Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?  Re: HELP suggestion 5 Re: How to do inverse video, bold, etc. in Vax Pro-C?  Re: HP Advocacy Site# I have to tell you this funny story ' Re: I have to tell you this funny story ' Re: I have to tell you this funny story ' Re: I have to tell you this funny story 7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek 7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek 7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek 7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek 3 RE: java on VMS -- again (was Re: HP Advocacy Site)  Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING OT: Microsoft information  RE: Remote Console access 3 VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version $ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?8 Washington DC contract work - vax cobol pro*cobol oracle  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 01:31:31 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly?0 Message-ID: <00A16637.4CE49FA3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <us8o5lfggq965@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:+ >Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote: H >:> On Unix you set the tt control with ioctl() and then call getchar(). >:> That's hard? > . >: For someone who hasn't done it before, yes. > G >: I've just had a swift look at "man ioctl" and while I could probably E >: figure it out eventually, it would be swifter to scour the net for " >: an example, or ask a newsgroup. > G >IMO, the following is MUCH easier reading than the 1 or 2 chapters one L >must read in the I/O User's Guide to properly use $QIO for single-character >input : >  > O >IOCTL(2)                  FreeBSD System Calls Manual                 IOCTL(2)  >  >NAME  >     ioctl - control device >  >LIBRARY$ >     Standard C Library (libc, -lc) > 	 >SYNOPSIS  >     #include <sys/ioctl.h> > 	 >     int / >     ioctl(int d, unsigned long request, ...);  >  >DESCRIPTIONO >     The ioctl() function manipulates the underlying device parameters of spe- M >     cial files.  In particular, many operating characteristics of character M >     special files (e.g. terminals) may be controlled with ioctl() requests. 5 >     The argument d must be an open file descriptor.  > O >     The third argument to ioctl is traditionally named char *argp.  Most uses I >     of ioctl in FreeBSD 3.0 however, require the third argument to be a  >     caddr_t or an int. > K >     An  ioctl request has encoded in it whether the argument is an ``in'' J >     parameter or ``out'' parameter, and the size of the argument argp inH >     bytes.  Macros and defines used in specifying an ioctl request are( >     located in the file <sys/ioctl.h>. >  >RETURN VALUESM >     If an error has occurred, a value of -1 is returned and errno is set to  >     indicate the error.  >  >ERRORS  >     ioctl() will fail if:  > 5 >     [EBADF]            d is not a valid descriptor.  > M >     [ENOTTY]           d is not associated with a character special device.  > L >     [ENOTTY]           The specified request does not apply to the kind ofA >                        object that the descriptor d references.  > 6 >     [EINVAL]           request or argp is not valid. > L >     [EFAULT]           argp points outside the process's allocated address >                        space.  > 	 >SEE ALSO + >     execve(2), fcntl(2), intro(4), tty(4)  >  >HISTORY? >     An ioctl() function call appeared in Version 7 AT&T UNIX.  > O >FreeBSD 4.5                    December 11, 1993                   FreeBSD 4.5     ' Why are you back trolling here again?     I What you've quoted doesn't say rat shit about how to invoke this call to  H establish that characteristics you want to see from the getchar().  ReadH through the $QIO description in the System Service Manual and I/O User'sH Manual and maybe you'll develop an appreciation for what you're dissing.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 02:53:06 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> 4 Subject: Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly?/ Message-ID: <us93si806h0ufb@corp.supernews.com>   ! VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: H :>IMO, the following is MUCH easier reading than the 1 or 2 chapters oneM :>must read in the I/O User's Guide to properly use $QIO for single-character 	 :>input :   ) : Why are you back trolling here again?     K : What you've quoted doesn't say rat shit about how to invoke this call to  J : establish that characteristics you want to see from the getchar().  ReadJ : through the $QIO description in the System Service Manual and I/O User'sJ : Manual and maybe you'll develop an appreciation for what you're dissing.  C Read the text above, starting with "IMO, ..."  You see, I have read H the I/O User's Guide.  It's a good two-week read if you know what you'reI looking for and where to find it, while ioctl() takes about 2-3 hours to  
 get right.  F On some Unix systems, you don't even need to call it for getchar() to : work as advertised (single-char input w/o a "terminator").  ; If it's a troller you're looking for, grab a mirror, Sport.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:33:09 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> 4 Subject: Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly?. Message-ID: <us8o5lfggq965@corp.supernews.com>  * Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:G :> On Unix you set the tt control with ioctl() and then call getchar().  :> That's hard?   - : For someone who hasn't done it before, yes.   F : I've just had a swift look at "man ioctl" and while I could probablyD : figure it out eventually, it would be swifter to scour the net for! : an example, or ask a newsgroup.   F IMO, the following is MUCH easier reading than the 1 or 2 chapters oneK must read in the I/O User's Guide to properly use $QIO for single-character  input :     N IOCTL(2)                  FreeBSD System Calls Manual                 IOCTL(2)   NAME      ioctl - control device    LIBRARY #      Standard C Library (libc, -lc)    SYNOPSIS      #include <sys/ioctl.h>         int.      ioctl(int d, unsigned long request, ...);   DESCRIPTION N      The ioctl() function manipulates the underlying device parameters of spe-L      cial files.  In particular, many operating characteristics of characterL      special files (e.g. terminals) may be controlled with ioctl() requests.4      The argument d must be an open file descriptor.  N      The third argument to ioctl is traditionally named char *argp.  Most usesH      of ioctl in FreeBSD 3.0 however, require the third argument to be a      caddr_t or an int.   J      An  ioctl request has encoded in it whether the argument is an ``in''I      parameter or ``out'' parameter, and the size of the argument argp in G      bytes.  Macros and defines used in specifying an ioctl request are '      located in the file <sys/ioctl.h>.   
 RETURN VALUES L      If an error has occurred, a value of -1 is returned and errno is set to      indicate the error.   ERRORS      ioctl() will fail if:  4      [EBADF]            d is not a valid descriptor.  L      [ENOTTY]           d is not associated with a character special device.  K      [ENOTTY]           The specified request does not apply to the kind of @                         object that the descriptor d references.  5      [EINVAL]           request or argp is not valid.   K      [EFAULT]           argp points outside the process's allocated address                          space.   SEE ALSO*      execve(2), fcntl(2), intro(4), tty(4)   HISTORY >      An ioctl() function call appeared in Version 7 AT&T UNIX.  N FreeBSD 4.5                    December 11, 1993                   FreeBSD 4.5   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 00:33:29 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 4 Subject: Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly?, Message-ID: <3DC4B527.B08C7F82@videotron.ca>   Question about $QIO   I How do I setup a $QIO to return a single character OR return a multi-byte  terminator ?  M If I specify a buffer of 1, it will return every character received, but what $ about a multi character terminator ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 19:06:31 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>0 Subject: Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?0 Message-ID: <3DC42214.FAA0673E@blueyonder.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:  > M > What would be needed is an improvement in the VMS queue management to allow 1 > DCPS information to be stored inside the queue.   ] So, you're going to lock out the  product for all those users at versions of VMS prior to the # one with the new enhanced features?    > You idea does have some merit, but there are a lot of factors.   regards, --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:44:11 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?' Message-ID: <3DC42B0B.DB2625DC@fsi.net>    Robert Deininger wrote:  > 7 > In article <3DC34485.1FA8A416@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  > N > >What would be needed is an improvement in the VMS queue management to allow2 > >DCPS information to be stored inside the queue. > H > I agree that more functionality and flexibility should be added to theJ > queue management subsystem.  Long overdue.  Effort expended in improvingD > management of queues in the individual layered products is diluted > unnecessarily, IMHO. > E > Over the years, functionality has built up, and gotten "frozen", in K > several of the "outlying" printing products.  Each of them uses different K > methods.  When new functionality _has_ been added to the central queueing L > system, the other products have been slow to make use of it.  All of whichI > contributes to making it harder than it should be to maintain a complex  > printing environment.  > O > >Or perhaps add just one more field to the queue definition that could hold a 8 > >filename which DCPS would use as a configuation file. > > N > >I.E. for a queue that has the DCPS symbiont, the symbiont would look ta theR > >queue's "config" file to extract all the optiosn the user wants for that queue. > 9 > Good ideas.  A queue might have several new attributes: I > 1. A config file, with the contents and format defined by the symbiont. K > 2. A DCL startup command procedure, executed automatically when the queue ) > starts, before the symbiont takes over. L > 3. More flexible or more numerous "characteristics" for the queue.  Let meH > define keyword/value pairs, and of course I'll want $getqui to give me > access to them.  > L > With tools like these, and probably more I haven't thought of, the layeredK > products could make a clean division between defining queues (which would I > still involve lots of pesky details), and starting them (which would be < > almost automatic, and uniform between different products). > H > Oh, and the queue manager should have the built-in ability to save andH > restore its internal database, and to migrate its files to a different2 > location, without turning the queue manager off.  ) I'll second those thoughts, but add this:   F If indeed this whole matter were to be rethought, I'd suggest that theG Queueing System V3 be married to DCPS V3 and the whole thing rebuilt as > an integrated subsystem, perhaps VMS Printing System (VPS) V1.  = I'd like to see a lot of the quirks in the queueing system be F straightened out, and the whole thing simplified (maybe the equivalentE of LIB$PSM_xxx so interfacing from a 3GL is less like rocket science) ! while retaining the existing API.   B I'd also like to see DCPS V3 redesigned so support for new printerF models can be added without having to re-issue the product every time.D Perhaps a different perspective on "printcap": remember, the name is7 supposed to be a contraction of "Printer Capabilities".    My $0.02, FWIW...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:11:32 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: HELP suggestionK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0211020911330001@1cust151.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   5 In article <3DC35EC7.2DCDF4DA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   L >I noticed that on an Alpha 7.3-1 system, the help contains much more stuff. > @ >However, I feel that its structure leaves room for improvement. > @ >They've added lots of xxxx_routines in the main list of topics M >(DCX_routines, CLI_routines, CQUAL_routines, EDT_routines, MAIL_routines etc 	 >etc etc)  > I >Shouldn't all of those have been added under the "RTL" main help topic ?   	 Probably.   2 >For instance, because there is an entry for both:H >MAIL_command and MAIL_routines, typing "HELP MAIL" doesn't get you to a) >"Subtopic?" prompt for the Mail command.  > J >Not sure if this is particular to that one site, but if not, it is really bad design.   H They broke the BACKUP topic similarly, a few releases ago.  Horrible!  I= surprised no one noticed and objected before it was released.    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:03:44 +0000 (UTC)% From: John Forkosh <john@invalid.com> > Subject: Re: How to do inverse video, bold, etc. in Vax Pro-C?, Message-ID: <aq17ig$7ta$1@reader1.panix.com>  ! Z <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote: # : stu <aronoffs@hotmail.com> wrote: 4 : : Is there a way in Pro-C to display text in bold,  : : inverse, etc. like VMS does?   : As I recall ...  : B : ESC = escape ( ASCII 1B(hex), 33(octal), 27(decimal) or ctrl+[ ) : - : Sending ESC[0m will turn off all attributes " : Sending ESC[1m will turn on bold' : Sending ESC[4m will turn on underline # : Sending ESC[5m will turn on blink % : Sending ESC[7m will turn on reverse  : ? : And, IIRC, you can also use ESC[X;Ym ... such as ESC[0;4m to  < : turn off all previous attributes and to turn on underline. : E : Once you turn on attributes, all chars printed to the terminal have . : those attributes on until you turn them off. : < : eg: In C, you can use "\033[0m" in a string to get ESC[0m.  ) Some of the escape sequences I use are...   N /* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *E   vt100.h	(c)1989-1999, John Forkosh Associates 	     VT-100 Graphics O  * ------------------------------------------------------------------------- */  #define bel		printf("\007")  #define esc		printf("\033")  #define csi		printf("\033[")# #define lscreen 	printf("\033[?5h") # #define dscreen 	printf("\033[?5l") " #define rev_vid 	printf("\033[7m")  #define blink		printf("\033[5m")  #define under		printf("\033[4m") #define bold		printf("\033[1m") " #define norm_vid	printf("\033[0m")! #define wide_vid	printf("\033#6") " #define high_vid2	printf("\033#4")" #define high_vid1	printf("\033#3")! #define graphic 	printf("\033(0") ! #define no_graph	printf("\033(B") & #define no_window	printf("\033[1;24r")- #define no_att		printf("\033[0;22;24;25;27m") 6 #define cup(row,col)	printf("\033[%d;%dH",(row),(col))7 #define stbm(top,bot)	printf("\033[%d;%dr",(top),(bot))  #define ri		printf("\033M")  #define el		printf("\033[K") #define ed0		printf("\033[0J")) #define bar		graphic;printf("x");no_graph 3 #define wipe(row,col)	cup(row,col);printf("\033[J")  #define clr		wipe(0,0);norm_vid N /* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *L    String equivalents ... Note: _cup() and _stbm() only accept literal args.O  * ------------------------------------------------------------------------- */  #define _bel		"\007" #define _esc		"\033" #define _csi		"\033["  #define _lscreen	"\033[?5h"  #define _dscreen	"\033[?5l"  #define _rev_vid	"\033[7m" #define _blink		"\033[5m"  #define _under		"\033[4m"  #define _bold		"\033[1m" #define _norm_vid	"\033[0m"  #define _wide_vid	"\033#6" #define _high_vid2	"\033#4"  #define _high_vid1	"\033#3"  #define _graphic	"\033(0"  #define _no_graph	"\033(B" #define _no_window	"\033[1;24r" & #define _no_att 	"\033[0;22;24;25;27m"2 #define _cup(row,col)	"\033[" #row ";" #col "\110"3 #define _stbm(top,bot)	"\033[" #top ";" #bot "\162"  #define _ri		"\033M" #define _el		"\033[K"  #define _ed0		"\033[0J"  #define _bar		"\033(0x\033(B" $ #define _wipe_clr	"\033[0;0H\033[2J"7 #define _clr		"\033[0;0H\033[2J\033(B\033[0m\033[1;24r" O /* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- */    --  > John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:52:52 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site J Message-ID: <8FRw9.169104$%h2.129969@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3DC3A10C.7B70FC9C@swissonline.delete.ch...  > H > Personally I would like to see a whole new tool for VMS web servers toH > show people what can be done and to provide them with capabilities wayG > beyond java.  Sure it would have to work with java on the web-browser I > because that is where you really do need lowest common denominator.  On A > the VMS end we could have some decent RMS access, decent system H > services, decent hooks for in-house code regardless of language, and aH > whole lot more.  You know, I can't help the feeling that Digital wouldF > have written this kind of thing if the company was still around. :-) >  >     J It's called Unified Development Server (UDS) from Sun. It used to be knownJ as Forte from Forte Software of Oakland, California. Digital had a team ofG software engineers working at the Forte offices for a long time helping  develop the product.  K It is still available from Sun for VMS and other platforms (HP-UX, Solaris, L Tru64, WinNT, Win2000, OS390, and probably still a few more - IRIX and a fewI others still have some support). It uses a proprietary OO language on the J front end called TOOL (transactional object-oriented language), and it canJ run in interpreted or compliled mode (C++ is the output in compiled mode).I It is an n-tier development and deployment  environment that works across 9 heterogeneous mixes of platforms, o/s, dbms, and clients.   H You can wrapper legacy code (Fortan, C, Cobol, etc..) and make that codeJ transactional in the context of UDS 'ACID' tranactions (it has it's own TPI monitor or you can use ACMS, Tuxedo, etc..). You can wrapper MQ and other I packages on a 'roll your own' basis, or there are some adapters that have * been built  and are comercially available.  J J2EE today is just the merest beginning of what UDS/Forte could do back in 1994.   F The Sun/iPlanet workflow product is based on UDS itself, so unless SunI decides to scrap the workflow product (which BTW is in part based on code K originally developed at Digital using TOOL), UDS is not going away and time  soon.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2002 13:09:18 -0800 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) , Subject: I have to tell you this funny story< Message-ID: <857e9e41.0211021309.c41314d@posting.google.com>  F As you all know, we are having the VMS Symposium in a couple of weeks.=  Last week I received an urgent email message from the person 9 responsible for registration, it was a forwarded message.   = On the orginal messge the subject line was Urgent the OpenVMS C Symposium but the body of the message was all in Chinese, obviously E concerned since we do have folks coming from China,  I then forwarded E the "Urgent" message to the OpenVMS Ambassador in China asking him if & he would translate the message for me.  
 Which he did.   < Aparently I was spamed in Chinese.  If pc's could laugh ....   sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 17:13:35 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 0 Subject: Re: I have to tell you this funny story, Message-ID: <3DC44E0E.5D8FF855@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote:? > On the orginal messge the subject line was Urgent the OpenVMS ; > Symposium but the body of the message was all in Chinese,   L Interesting. I suspect it may have been a prank. I am not sure that spammersS are smart enough to know that you are VMS related or that there is a VMS symposium.   L On the onther hand, if it mentioned "OpenVMS" in the subject, perhaps it wasM harvested from your web site , since no customer ever uses the term "open"...   J So Sue, did you get promises to grow certain parts of your anatomy by 3" ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:53:02 -0500. From: "Robert F. Schaefer" <rschaefe@gcfn.org>0 Subject: Re: I have to tell you this funny story7 Message-ID: <aq1s10$ajo$1@ronco.freenet.columbus.oh.us>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DC44E0E.5D8FF855@videotron.ca... > Sue Skonetski wrote:A > > On the orginal messge the subject line was Urgent the OpenVMS = > > Symposium but the body of the message was all in Chinese,  > E > Interesting. I suspect it may have been a prank. I am not sure that  spammersJ > are smart enough to know that you are VMS related or that there is a VMS
 symposium.  0 Perhaps not.  I recently found this in my inbox:   |Return-Path: <info@momss.nl> D |Received: from post-20.mail.nl.demon.net (post-20.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.1]) 7 | by mail.gcfn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04559 > | for xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:04:26 -0500 (EST)0 |Received: from [212.238.84.155] (helo=MailUser)7 | by post-20.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1)  | id 186GRV-000Giw-00 7 | for xxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:24:58 +0000  |From: <info@momss.nl>* |To: "Robert F. Schaefer" xxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx( |Subject: VIP - VMS Information Provider |Sender: <info@momss.nl> |Mime-Version: 1.0- |Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"   G The only plausable place they could have gotten my 'mail address is via H c.o.v-- I'm prepared to believe Encompass isn't selling my name to thirdG partys, as this is the first obviously non-DEC^WComp^WHP affiliated VMS < related msg I've gotten ever.  And I did *not* request this.  K If spammerz are targeting VMS users, it's gotta be a good sign.  Can''t see J them wasting their valuable time on a product that no-one will need...  :)   Bob    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 01:21:16 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG0 Subject: Re: I have to tell you this funny story0 Message-ID: <00A16635.DE4AFB2D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <857e9e41.0211021309.c41314d@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:G >As you all know, we are having the VMS Symposium in a couple of weeks. > > Last week I received an urgent email message from the person: >responsible for registration, it was a forwarded message. > > >On the orginal messge the subject line was Urgent the OpenVMSD >Symposium but the body of the message was all in Chinese, obviouslyF >concerned since we do have folks coming from China,  I then forwardedF >the "Urgent" message to the OpenVMS Ambassador in China asking him if' >he would translate the message for me.  >  >Which he did. > = >Aparently I was spamed in Chinese.  If pc's could laugh ....  >  >sue  L The "cat" story you told us at dinner at Jake's Steaks was far more humorus!   :)     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 15:09:58 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> @ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeekI Message-ID: <aVRw9.169194$%h2.90109@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:NsWcnXAmzdELp16gXTWc3w@metrocast.net... > F > "Daryl Jones" <jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message9 > news:8a646952.0211011215.7e6a2bd5@posting.google.com...  >  > ...  > I > > Before the HP-COMPAQ merger, both HP and Compaq annouced that I64 was G > > to be their chip of the future. Compaq gave the Alpha technology to I > > Intel. The Merced/Itanium chip performance would be camparable to the  > > EV7. > I > This post is threatening to set new standards of cluelessness in c.o.v. & > Let's start with that last sentence. > J > Merced truly stood alone in the commercial performance sweepstakes.  TheK > first SPECint2K_base score released for it after it shipped was 314 (on a K > Dell box), though HP later managed to get that figure up first to 342 and  > eventually to 379. > K > This wasn't just a lot slower than Alpha (which scored 621 at that time - G > note that this was of course on EV6, not EV7, which should easily top  1000):J > it was slower than *everyone*.  Even SPARC, which is often maligned here asG > something of a SPEC slug, posted a score - for systems it was already L > shipping - of 439 prior to Merced's launch, and bumped that up to 537 only 3  > months after Merced hit 379. > @ >  What made the Alpha performance was not only the chip but theE > > compilier technology. Intel in this area was ten years behing the 
 > > Alpha. > G > That would have been difficult, since Alpha was only 9 years old when  MercedL > launched.  And especially since EPIC had been in design/development almost< > as long as Alpha had (HP started working on EPIC in 1989). > F > As far as compiler technology goes, Itanic (unlike virtually all itsH > competition) has been using feedback-directed optimization in its SPEC baseE > testing (because it pretty much has to to yield anything that's not I > completely laughable).  One can question whether such optimization will K > prove typical for application developers (the rationale behind the 'base' I > set of scores being that it should reflect common practices rather than L > pedal-to-the-metal quests for speed), but even if the answer is "yes" thenJ > the next question is how much other platforms' scores will increase once the  > competition does likewise. > B >  By 2004, HP will have only one architecture to work with rather< > > than two and it is out of the hardware business to boot. > H > That's HP's problem.  What people here are trying to ensure it that it  > doesn't become theirs as well.    K If HP has treated their portion of the expenditures on IA-64 as they should J have, ie. expense as incurred in accordance with FASB 52 (if memory servesE correctly), then HP could walk away from IA-64 without a hit to their I balance sheet. If, on the other hand, HP capitalized their portion of the L IA-64 development expenditures (in violation of FASB rules) then HP would be5 in for a $2-4 billion dollar hit if they walked away.   K You have to wonder if Intel would sell them ANY processors after that if HP G walked. Intel used that threat against Digital back in 1997-98 when the & Alpha patent infringement issue arose.  > The best course for HP is to take the enterprise systems groupK Alpha/VMS/Tru64/PH-UX/NSK and simply spin it off. That way HP-Wintel can do J what they want, and the enterprise group can stick with a better platform.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:33:59 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> @ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek' Message-ID: <3DC428A7.8D5D9340@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > [snip]@ > The best course for HP is to take the enterprise systems groupM > Alpha/VMS/Tru64/PH-UX/NSK and simply spin it off. That way HP-Wintel can do L > what they want, and the enterprise group can stick with a better platform.  D I second that emotion. "HP Enterprise Systems, Inc." might have moreH freedom to proceed independently of the Redmond Empire. Carly could headC that division while Capellas could retain control of the HP desktop E product lines, since that seems to be where his beliefs fit best. Not B sure Carly's the best fit by that same criterion, but I'd be a bitF pressed to suggest another - don't think Rich Marcello would even want the job.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 02:18:09 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> @ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeekJ Message-ID: <BH%w9.174499$%h2.150433@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DC428A7.8D5D9340@fsi.net...  > John Smith wrote: 
 > > [snip]B > > The best course for HP is to take the enterprise systems groupL > > Alpha/VMS/Tru64/PH-UX/NSK and simply spin it off. That way HP-Wintel can doD > > what they want, and the enterprise group can stick with a better	 platform.  > F > I second that emotion. "HP Enterprise Systems, Inc." might have moreJ > freedom to proceed independently of the Redmond Empire. Carly could headE > that division while Capellas could retain control of the HP desktop G > product lines, since that seems to be where his beliefs fit best. Not D > sure Carly's the best fit by that same criterion, but I'd be a bitH > pressed to suggest another - don't think Rich Marcello would even want
 > the job.    K Maybe Gorham, Marcello, and bring back Pfieffer to head the whole thing up.   * Or we ask Mikey Dell to buy VMS and Alpha.E Mikey's starting to cotton on to Linux, and he'd be able to get Alpha K volumes up with that. And to get into real enterprises he could use VMS and $ the full Dell committment behind it.  K Moves like that by Dell would probably scare everyone else in the industry.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 00:25:41 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> @ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek, Message-ID: <3DC4B354.A7B08C44@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote: , > Or we ask Mikey Dell to buy VMS and Alpha.  H Or get Apple to buy VMS and  Alpha. Port the APPLE GUI to VMS, and build Alpha-based Imacs that run VMS.   G Get the VMS engineers to build a cluster interface via Firewire too :-)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 00:27:19 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> < Subject: RE: java on VMS -- again (was Re: HP Advocacy Site)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B19@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  
 Craig, John -   * Attunity adapters support can be found at:4 http://www.attunity.com/WinConnect3400/docs/am34.pdf  H Note - another partner solution might also be of interest here. They areB called Dataglider and have Java based solutions for accessing data- sources like Rdb (and I believe RMS as well).   
 Reference:0 http://www.dataglider.com/solutions/openvms.html "The Solution:  E DataGlider's Web Integration Engine simplifies the integration of RDB F databases on Open VMS systems. DataGlider enables companies to quickly@ connect to and logically link data from these systems (and otherH systems), then present the information on a web page or wireless device.D DataGlider simplifies the back-end connectivity and allows unlimitedB drill down capability. Companies can quickly provide visibility toE information for employees, customers and partners from their Open VMS 	 systems."    Regards   
 Kerry Main Solutions Architect  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----D From: Craig A. Berry [mailto:craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com]=20 Sent: November 2, 2002 1:53 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 8 Subject: java on VMS -- again (was Re: HP Advocacy Site)    5 In article <3DC3A10C.7B70FC9C@swissonline.delete.ch>,t3  John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote:   F > The survey looks like it is about Java development and as I found=20I > recently, I would just about need a lobotomy to use java on VMS if I=20 / > don't use a database for the underlying data.i  : So use a database.  Or buy (or build) an interface to RMS.  H > (As a matter of interest I canned my original plans and will use CGI &  3 > HTML because it is far superior for what I need.)r  H That's like saying TCP/IP is superior to ethernet; you are conflating=20J two entirely different pieces of the same puzzle.   Whether you use CGI=20= and HTML is independent of what development language you use.o  J > As was mentioned in c.o.v, java is a "lowest-common-denominator" form=20 > of C on unix.   B Well, *you* keep saying that, but this tells us more about your=20' preconceptions than it does about java.n  F >  It can't use any file structure more advanced than flat files in=20 > stream_LF format.n  F Having to know the details of file structure is a liability, not an=20I asset, to the application programmer. And there are ways of connecting=20nB to structured data that don't require such knowledge.  For some=20J applications, XML (a document structure, not a file structure) would be=20I a good way to do this.  For others, you need an API to the engine that=20dG implements the structure, whether that engine is RMS or a relational=20g
 database. =20.  , > It has an interface to execute C programs,C > but then needs interfacing routines to talk to any other languageu  C I agree it would be nice to see more glue capabilities for other=20nI languages than C.  One way to get at existing logic in other languages=20mI would be to implement it as a service accessible through some standard=20"	 protocol.a   > and itB > needs to spawn a new process if you want to execute a command=20 > procedure.   What language doesn't?  H > Personally I would like to see a whole new tool for VMS web servers to  H > show people what can be done and to provide them with capabilities way   > beyond java.  J Well, that would be the Microsoft approach.  I'd much rather see VMS be=20B the platform of choice for deploying applications based on open=20
 standards.   > OnD > the VMS end we could have some decent RMS access, decent system=20H > services, decent hooks for in-house code regardless of language, and a   > whole lot more.   F There is nothing wrong with wanting these things, but these are not=20G arguments against java.  So you want a way to access RMS from java? =20rJ Have you gone to any of the likely suspects (Attunity, CONNX, EasySoft)=20J and inquired whether they have or are developing such a thing?  A quick=20@ look shows that CONNX has a JDBC interface to RMS indexed files:  . <http://www.connx.com/products/connx-rms.html>  A I haven't used it so I don't know how good it is, but there is=20 E absolutely no grounds for saying RMS access from java is unavailable.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 19:26:46 -0500  From: Everhart <ge@gce.com>d% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWINGe+ Message-ID: <aq1qgt$r2b$1@bob.news.rcn.net>h   DAniel Allen wrote: ; > 	The status checking in this code snippet is not correct:  > I > 	1)  The QIO status should check not for SS$_NORMAL but any error valuefE > 	2)  After the IOSB check for SS$_NOMOREFILES you need to check for E > 	    any other error conditions.  This is probably the cause of the  > 	    your problem. > J > 	This is not an issue with the OS version per se.  This type of specificJ > 	error checking is simply poor coding which manifests itself when the OSC > 	or run-time environment generates a new/unexpected error status.  >  > 	Dan > A > "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> wrote in messagee/ > news:<N0gt9.22$oF.272542@news.cpqcorp.net>...t > < >>"Carlos Costa" <carlos.costa@datawest.ca> wrote in message9 >>news:7edc7395.0210220742.6bd0ce68@posting.google.com...  >> >>G >>>This problem is also disconcerting because 7.3-1 has, in HP/Compaq'slA >>>own words, "100% binary compatibility with previous versions".  >>I >>Does CSWING use all public interfaces or CMKRNL to interrogate internalo >>data structures? >> >>mark >  > H > Unfortunately, although I know C, I have not programmed much under VMSE > to be able to answer you fully. But, maybe if I explain what I have D > found, more knowledgable people may see something. I have tried toB > debug the code, and have found that the problem is in a functionG > called "get_dirs()" in the file SWING.C. This function is recursively * > called to scan through a directory tree. > B > What happens is that when the scan hits the last leaf, it loops,B > always returning that directory name. For example, if I have the > following structure: >  > [COSTA} --- BIN --- TOOLSo >         |o >         --- COM --- UTIL > G > then get_dirs() will get COSTA, BIN, TOOLS, then TOOLS, TOOLS, TOOLS,r- > .. forever. it never goes back up the tree.u > 2 > The actual call to VMS to read the directory is: >  >         status = sys$qiow(0,$ >                           channel,' >                           IO$_ACCESS,i% >                           &iosb[0],  >                           0, >                           0,& >                           &fib_desc,/ >                           DSC1(dir_template), ) >                           &file_length,e, >                           DSCA1(filename),  >                           acb, >                           0);i > # >         if (status != SS$_NORMAL)vE >             panic(status,"io$_access directory lookup","get dirs");n* >         if (iosb[0] == SS$_NOMOREFILES){< >             fprintf(fcac,"after sys$qiow, NOMOREFILES\n"); >             return(TRUE);, >         }2 >  > Carlos > I I am looking over a heavily cleaned up cswing. The error codes tested fordJ are the only ones that show up here. Incomplete testing is not causing theI problem. Hopefully I can get a simple enough pair of cases to see exactly)E what is going on different. The cswing linked in 7.3-1 also functionstF in 7.3, but does not in 7.3-1 by the way.  The behavior in get_dirs isH as described far as I can see but this is impractical to analyze save inI a small directory tree. The increment of the wcc field does occur, but itiI is not sufficient to remove it; the scan never gets passed any nosuchfileO case.   M If someone thought that an inappropriately initialized descriptor was causing G this I should be very happy to see any details. The loop that gets into H trouble is in swing.c and there are no such constructs in that file, andQ execution seems never to exit from there. Mind I have only looked briefly though.l Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 19:35:41 -0500v From: Everhart <ge@gce.com>c% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWINGn+ Message-ID: <aq1r1h$sh1$1@bob.news.rcn.net>f   Carlos Costa wrote:aM > On 10/23/02 11:05 PM, in article 3DB78DA0.1030809@vajhoej.dk, "Arne Vajhj"e > <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: >  >  >>Carlos Costa wrote:o >> >> >>>        status = sys$qiow(0,o% >>>                          channel, ( >>>                          IO$_ACCESS,& >>>                          &iosb[0], >>>                          0,n >>>                          0, ' >>>                          &fib_desc,g0 >>>                          DSC1(dir_template),* >>>                          &file_length,- >>>                          DSCA1(filename),V! >>>                          acb,e  >>>                          0); >>>i$ >>>        if (status != SS$_NORMAL)F >>>            panic(status,"io$_access directory lookup","get dirs");+ >>>        if (iosb[0] == SS$_NOMOREFILES){  >>>            return(TRUE); >>>        } >>>c4 >>>"DAniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message9 >>>news:<BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKEEOKCBAA.dallen@nist.gov>...t >>> < >>>>The status checking in this code snippet is not correct: >>>>J >>>>1)  The QIO status should check not for SS$_NORMAL but any error value >>>> >>>eH >>>I am missing something here. The code doesn't check for SS$_NORMAL itC >>>checks for not-equal-to SS$_NORMAL. Wouldn't that be the same aspE >>>checking for any error value? In other words, if the statis is NOTeE >>>NORMAL then an error occurs. If there was an error then SS$_NORMAL- >>>would not return, would it? >> >>B >>I think one of the points is that there are other good status'es >>than SS$_NORMAL. >> >>Arne >> >  > K > Yes, I see what they are saying now. I should add, though, that a "panic"sN > has not occurred. I've gotten "panics" in the past and they output a messageM > and exit the application. This has not happened. So I guess that means that E > SS$_NORMAL is always being returned, which is a good thing I guess.- > L > To be more correct, a "panic" does occur but only if you leave the programH > running for a long time, but the error that occurs is an out of memoryM > error, caused I figured because the endless recursive calling of get_dirs() : > eventually exausted the allocated memory of the process. > N > SS$_NOMOREFILES is being returned (sometimes anyways) as I've seen it during8 > my own feeble attempts to figure out what is going on. >  > Carlos > J The revised code I got tests for the 1 bit set or not, tests immediate and iosb tests. G Only observed return iosb statuses are normal, nosuchfile, nomorefiles.N
 Nothing else.y  T I am working on getting a simple test dir tree so I can track the pattern of returns< from io$_access, comparing 7.3 with vioc and 7.3-1 with xfc.  K The autoinc of the wildcard context might be involved, though every time itsG gets bumped it started at zero to my observation...it is most peculiar.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 01:31:35 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> " Subject: OT: Microsoft information, Message-ID: <3DC4C2C2.D6551A8D@videotron.ca>  , http://www.serc.nl/people/niessink/fun/ms/    I contains some of the most authoritative and interesting information aboutb microsoft corporation.  K Note to HP employees: do not access this site as it may provide informationp> contrary to what your employer is telling you about Microsoft.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:21:03 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>m" Subject: RE: Remote Console accessT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B16@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bart, Robert -  G ConsoleWorks started as an OpenVMS based product (VAX and Alpha), so it < is a very good VMS based product for managing many consoles.  H If Customers or Prod Mgrs :-) decide to implement PC platforms to manageG important systems, then that is their decision, but it can certainly be  done in other ways.t  
 Reference:: http://www.tditx.com/services_support_faqs.html#console=20  C (scroll down and look at the OS listed first under supported server  OS's)e   :-)q   Regardsh  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant. Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)v       -----Original Message-----3 From: Bart Zorn [mailto:B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl]=20e Sent: November 2, 2002 12:47 PMc To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg" Subject: Re: Remote Console access     Robert Deininger wrote:a       [ Snip ... ] >=20D >>Btw - ConsoleWorks server can run natively on a VMS box (VAX or=20@ >>Alpha). It does not need Wintel if Cust does not want it.=3D20 >=20 >=20B > I've heard this rumor, but I've never seen it in non-vapor form.  J Yes, there is a VMS based client for Consoleworks. However, it connects=20J to the billybox first. This billybox is the only system that has access=20" to the DECserver90M inside the GS.  G If you already have Console Manager (or CommandIT) in place, you CAN=20 H ditch the billybox. Just connect the DECserver to your network in the=206 normal fashion and use LAT (or TCP/IP if you have to).  	 Bart Zornt   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2002 20:58:54 -0800 2 From: cwhii_google_spam@yahoo.com (C.W.Holeman II)< Subject: VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version= Message-ID: <77555df7.0211022058.535989ff@posting.google.com>L  C Anyone have any info on the rumor that a future release of VMS will'C support KDE? I was told by a VMS Ambassador the CDE was going to bee replaced by KDE.   -- C.W.Holeman II< cwhii5@Julian5Locals.com                http://also.as/cwhii remove the fives# Send spam to junkmail@earthlink.netn   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:48:50 -0600.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>/- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?t' Message-ID: <3DC42C22.582AF22E@fsi.net>-   Simon Clubley wrote: > ^ > In article <3DC37577.10A8515F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > John Santos wrote:@ > >> Windows *needs* a START button, but it stops all by itself? > >nP > > No, the START button  is the first step towards the shutdown of the machine. > : > As in you start any program and the machine shuts down ?  H ..., and does so quite abruptly, sometimes without even a blue screen: aG co-worker saw this on W2K Pro just the other day - the PC simply initedi and restarted...   --   David J. DachteraL dba DJE Systems_ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2002 07:08:52 -0600uB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?c3 Message-ID: <rlKQFuW5GMtp@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  \ In article <3DC37577.10A8515F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > John Santos wrote:> >> Windows *needs* a START button, but it stops all by itself? > N > No, the START button  is the first step towards the shutdown of the machine.  8 As in you start any program and the machine shuts down ?   Simon.   -- RB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:22:36 GMTs" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose? 0 Message-ID: <00A165D9.DB27E596@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3DC2E0D5.7B0CD909@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:I >> >>    This survey was sponsored and written by the NonStop Development M >> >> department within HP so it's scope was limited to the NonStop platform.[ >mJ >> BULLSHIT!  Since when is Windows a non-stop platform?  Just because itsI >> crappy GUI has only a [Start] button doesn't make it *NON-STOP* by anye >> stretch of the imagination! > I >It isn't the inclusion of Windows in the survey that is a problem. Since M >Tandem has a very basic user interface, one could potentially see many using-H >Widnows as front ends to Tandems for development, system management, or >client-server applications. >aE >HOWEVER, if they went through the trouble of including various Unix,-N >especially including Tru64, then they have no excuse for having omitted VMS. O >And since Tandem boxes often co-exist with IBM mainframes, shouldn't they have". >included IBM mainframes in the list as well ? >eK >When I see such surveys, I am given the impression that the goal is not toiO >research the installed base to help you make a decision, but rather to collectmN >information that will help you justify a decision that has already been made.  L Of course, that's been the history of this company down the DEC->Compaq->HP C timeline.  Invent the cure first, then go in search of the disease.n --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            d5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:22:16 -0600& From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net>- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?(9 Message-ID: <3dc43688$0$17642$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>   F I was a bit harsh, sorry Ken.  Thought I softened the message with the spider and fly closing.e  K But I will admit I was angered, once again, by the absence of VMS.  I wrote-K to Stallard and Jessica about VMS being AWOL.  Hope someone learns a lesson\ by this.   Dave...\  , "Scratch" <scratch@aol.com> wrote in message8 news:D3Cw9.61438$dn3.2014117@twister.southeast.rr.com... >07 > "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com> wrote in message[5 > news:3dc2b758$0$17648$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net...[E > > Explains what?  That LINUX and Windows are no considered non-stop  > platforms, > > said the spider to the fly.  >dK > I was just passing the message along.  I guess by "explains" I meant that" itI > was the Nonstop group and not anyone related to OpenVMS.  Heck, I don'tn know > why they left it out.; >b >" > Ken  >f > -- > Kenneth Farmer > http://www.OpenVMS.org >0 >\ >[ > 7 > "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com> wrote in message[5 > news:3dc2b758$0$17648$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net...[E > > Explains what?  That LINUX and Windows are no considered non-stop- > platforms, > > said the spider to the fly.  > >l > > -- > > Dave...= > >aK > > It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less: > > trouble. > > -----Mark Twaino > >s0 > > "Scratch" <scratch@aol.com> wrote in message< > > news:k8xw9.61154$dn3.1979508@twister.southeast.rr.com...% > > > I guess this kinda explains it.e > > >. >  > > >n > > >e > > >3" > > > ----- Original Message -----5 > > > From: "Moser, Jessica " <Jessica_Moser@sba.com>w2 > > > To: "'Kenneth Farmer'" <kfarmer@openvms.org>. > > > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:28 AM% > > > Subject: RE: Instapoll questiont > > >w > > >a > > > > Kennth - > > > >aK > > > >    This survey was sponsored and written by the NonStop DevelopmentME > > > > department within HP so it's scope was limited to the NonStop  > platform.f > > WeJ > > > > apologize if this wasn't communicated properly. Thank you for your > > > interestF > > > > in the advocacy program. Please continue to check our web siteI > > > > (www.hpuseradvocacy.org) for future advocacy related initiatives.D > > > >u" > > > > -----Original Message-----9 > > > > From: Kenneth Farmer [mailto:kfarmer@openvms.org] 1 > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:12 PM $ > > > > To: admin@hpuseradvocacy.org# > > > > Subject: Instapoll questionm > > > >V > > > >h( > > > > Was OpenVMS left out on purpose? > > > >0C > > > > http://www.hpuseradvocacy.com/Surveys/2002October/index.cfml > > > >e > > > >.I > > > > For which platform(s) are you developing enterprise applications?i > > > > NonStop Kernel
 > > > > HP-UXc > > > > Tru64 UNIX > > > > Windowso
 > > > > Linuxo  > > > > Other (please elaborate) > > >  > > >m > > >  > > >e > > >i > >n > >t >r >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 02:28:02 +0100aB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>A Subject: Washington DC contract work - vax cobol pro*cobol oracle 7 Message-ID: <3DC47BA2.5728@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>c  C I found a message on another VMS Message board. Maybe someone here   is interested :   8 http://www.computing.net/openvms/wwwboard/forum/163.html   -- y ME u  B (p.s. I have nothing to do with it, and only forward the message). Posted by news://news.nb.nuu   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.607 ************************