1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 04 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 610       Contents:/ A valid point why VMS is superior to other OS's + Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly? + Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly?  CDE$HOME_DEFAULTS empty? Re: CHARON-ALPHA - soon ???? Re: CHARON-ALPHA - soon ????( Christmas advertising HP should be doing! Re: Configuring VMS as DNS server ! Re: Configuring VMS as DNS server ! Re: Configuring VMS as DNS server  Digital Press discount Re: Digital Press discount RE: Digital Press discount Disk size specification $ DS10L and backups on an IDE CDRW ... Re: errno equivalent; Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month ; Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month ; Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month ; RE: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month ; Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month ; Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month ; RE: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month ; Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month ; Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month  Re: HP Advocacy Site RE: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP advocacy survey HP-ETS 2002 CD' Re: I have to tell you this funny story ' Re: I have to tell you this funny story ' Re: I have to tell you this funny story ' Re: I have to tell you this funny story ' Re: I have to tell you this funny story ' RE: I have to tell you this funny story  Icons on Eisner? Re: Icons on Eisner?7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek % Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS  Re: OPCOM suggestions  Re: OPCOM suggestions  Re: Palladium article  Re: Remote Console access ' Re: Remote VMScluster recovery question  Slow performance with BACKUP  Re: Slow performance with BACKUPD Still a few seats left! HP Alpha IT Forum Nov 6 NY Grand Hyatt Hotel$ VMS on Itanium not mission critical?7 Re: VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version 7 Re: VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version 7 Re: VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version $ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?# Re: [very OT] OS X, the (bad?) turn   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 10:39:53 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: A valid point why VMS is superior to other OS's= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0211041039.70cb573e@posting.google.com>   C I was arguing VMS superiority to linux on their board when a poster @ made the following excellent point, except he gave a link at theA end that I can't find ... anyone know what that is all about "why B vms wasn't ported to intel before", and wouldn't this be a problem= for the itanium vms port? Itanium cannot be mission critical?     D > .. And I must be able to modify it to add support for the hardware > on my PC.   < This is why I had the smiley after Michael's last statement.  H > The given with VMS is that you have to buy the precise set of hardwareH > that the folks at Digital/Compaq/HP have decided you will buy, usually  > at inflated prices, from them.  H I have a VAX box under my desk I got for free from my previous workplace= when it was "upgraded" to NT. I am sure you can also get one.   B Having said that, you are absolutely right that you cannot get VMSE on today's popular hardware. On the other hand, I see no problem with ? it. It is not geared toward the hobbyist or adventurous people. E It is geared toward mission critical systems where everything must be  controlled.   A The problem with the "widely" available and manufactured hardware @ is that there are a lot of compatibility issues. Also, as we seeA on this ng, there are a lot of quality issues. Since VMS will run C only on their hardware, they have complete control over the working @ of the system. While I might not want someone completely control@ my box when it is just an apache/ftp/quake server, or it is just@ my desktop, I am not sure if I want to see these hardware piecesB in some mission critical devices like medical computers, computers@ aboard airplanes, etc. In those situations, I absolutely accept,D even demand, that someone (reputable, and trustable, and I think DECD satisfied both) have total control over the soft/hardware. Since VMSD is targeted at such "industries", besides finance, I see no problem.  @ I am not sure I would like to see a message in my browser when IA transfer my money to the bank that "sorry, our rtlX ethernet card ? misbehaved, you lost your money". See the OpenBSD kernel source ? for what they write about the rtl cards (redefines low end). In @ such situations, I want, better said demand, the best. HopefullyA such things are not present in VMS systems and in turn in mission A critical systems. However, for my home network, I don't mind when A the network card is not the fastest or it drops more packets than $ it should. It is just a home system.  B I don't mind if the gov't pays a 10x surcharge in mission critical> situations and no US warship needs to be towed to harbour. OK,C that was a software issue, but the point is that they used a system : which was not designed for such a mission critical system.  B > You might get away with a "foreign" SCSI disk drive, but they'llC > pester you every time they come in to do provocative maintenance, 6 > blaming all problems on not buying /their/ hardware.  > I do expect my bank/hospital/military to have the funds to buy2 quality hard disks for *MISSION CRITICAL* systems.  G > By the way, oops, the only supported video hardware is obsolete stuff G > four years old that is no longer available except at truly exorbitant  > pricing...  C So why do you need a 3d card for a box which controls the radiation A dosage in a hospital? A simple video card which provides the user  with a 80x25 display is fine.   B The page http://www.kjsl.com/vmsfaq/vms.htm talks about why it was not ported to Intel before.    Vilmos   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 06:45:40 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 4 Subject: Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly?3 Message-ID: <M6+dwKJrElNQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3DC599B7.D6FD2671@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Howard S Shubs wrote: K >> after the call was made.  With a $QIOW, you don't get control back until G >> both the request and the result have occurred, so you can do both at K >> once.  That was a very simple example, where I only tested the R0 status  >> code. > O > In a case of a QIOW that fails to queue the IO and returns immediatly, is the K > contents of the IOSB predictable ? Just curious as to whether testing the * > iosb.status is sufficient in such cases.  C    No.  If the I/O fails to queue te iosb is untouched.  If the I/O F    queues the IOSB will be zero filled (to be overwritten when the I/O    completes).   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 08:31:20 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org4 Subject: Re: can vms C access the keyboard directly?3 Message-ID: <5P1ujMua5X2y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <us8o5lfggq965@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:, > Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:I > :> On Unix you set the tt control with ioctl() and then call getchar().  > :> That's hard?  > / > : For someone who hasn't done it before, yes.  > H > : I've just had a swift look at "man ioctl" and while I could probablyF > : figure it out eventually, it would be swifter to scour the net for# > : an example, or ask a newsgroup.  > H > IMO, the following is MUCH easier reading than the 1 or 2 chapters oneM > must read in the I/O User's Guide to properly use $QIO for single-character 	 > input :    ROFL  G You expect someone to be able to write an ioctl call based on _THAT_!?!   D At least have the grace to quote a page from termio (7I) if you want> to show something that someone has a prayer of coding against.  - What I got from the quoted man page was that:   L  ioctl is a call that messes about with device special file characteristics.  @  It operates on devices pointed to by file descriptors passed as  unsigned longwords.  ?  The rest of its parameters are specific to the device type and =  are opaque, self-describing and tend to follow some standard 
  conventions.   @  Errors are reported in the standard (for C under Unix) fashion.   ?  You can find more information under tty(4) and in sys/ioctl.h.   C My system doesn't have tty(4).  So I called up termio (7I).  It was < heavy going and went on for 30 pages or so.  The actual code@ required to set the bit for non-canonical processing is probablyC quite trivial, but I'd have to get absorb quite a bit of background C to know that this change is what I want, how to make the change and  what side effects to expect.  C The previous poster already knows what to do, how to do it and what F side effects to expect in the context of $QIO.  And that's nine tenths of the battle.  @ Yes, I'm sure that a competent Unix programmer could whip out an= ioctl for single character I/O quite easily and would find it C quite difficult to slog through the $QIO documentation to the point ? that he or she could perform a similar task under VMS.  Indeed, > that's rather the previous poster's point:  It's easier to useA what you're used to than to get yourself up to speed on something  new.   	John Briggs >  > P > IOCTL(2)                  FreeBSD System Calls Manual                 IOCTL(2) >  > NAME >      ioctl - control device  > 	 > LIBRARY % >      Standard C Library (libc, -lc)  > 
 > SYNOPSIS >      #include <sys/ioctl.h>  > 
 >      int0 >      ioctl(int d, unsigned long request, ...); > 
 > DESCRIPTION P >      The ioctl() function manipulates the underlying device parameters of spe-N >      cial files.  In particular, many operating characteristics of characterN >      special files (e.g. terminals) may be controlled with ioctl() requests.6 >      The argument d must be an open file descriptor. > P >      The third argument to ioctl is traditionally named char *argp.  Most usesJ >      of ioctl in FreeBSD 3.0 however, require the third argument to be a >      caddr_t or an int.  > L >      An  ioctl request has encoded in it whether the argument is an ``in''K >      parameter or ``out'' parameter, and the size of the argument argp in I >      bytes.  Macros and defines used in specifying an ioctl request are ) >      located in the file <sys/ioctl.h>.  >  > RETURN VALUES N >      If an error has occurred, a value of -1 is returned and errno is set to >      indicate the error. >  > ERRORS >      ioctl() will fail if: > 6 >      [EBADF]            d is not a valid descriptor. > N >      [ENOTTY]           d is not associated with a character special device. > M >      [ENOTTY]           The specified request does not apply to the kind of B >                         object that the descriptor d references. > 7 >      [EINVAL]           request or argp is not valid.  > M >      [EFAULT]           argp points outside the process's allocated address   >                         space. > 
 > SEE ALSO, >      execve(2), fcntl(2), intro(4), tty(4) > 	 > HISTORY @ >      An ioctl() function call appeared in Version 7 AT&T UNIX. > P > FreeBSD 4.5                    December 11, 1993                   FreeBSD 4.5   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 16:05:18 GMT 3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) ! Subject: CDE$HOME_DEFAULTS empty? 0 Message-ID: <aq65ru$40o$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  M when I try to install Mozilla as a desktop icon all is fine besides the stuff N with the icon picture. I downloaded "CDE_ICONS.ZIP", unpacked it and saved theM six files into "[GARTMANN.DT.ICONS]". Now when I run "Create Action" and then = "Find Set", I don't get any files listed. There is nothing in     CDE$HOME_DEFAULTS:[ICONS]       and nothing in*    CDE$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:[APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]N But when I look into these two directories I see icon files. I am able to open: the icon files via the "Icon Editor". Thus, what is wrong?   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Nov 2002 02:58:31 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: CHARON-ALPHA - soon ???? - Message-ID: <87iszejx9k.fsf@prep.synonet.com>    Everhart <ge@gce.com> writes:   F > I suspect Mannequin may not have been totally complete since its jobD > was to help with very early development, not to support the matureF > VMS OS. I believe it ran on Vax (after all, what else was there backE > then?)...which leads to the image of running a VAX emulator on some E > machine like a PC in order to run an Alpha emulator on the emulated * > VAX in order to do something or other...  : > Surely an exercise for those over-endowed with patience.  E There is an Alpha simulator/emulator that was used for the EV8 design C work and is on one of the US uni ftp sites. So those who want to be   patient today, may be in luck :)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:27:02 +01002 From: "Robert Boers" <robert.boers@softresint.com>% Subject: Re: CHARON-ALPHA - soon ???? * Message-ID: <3dc675a9$1@news.deckpoint.ch>  G We are building the Alpha to IPF binary code translator. The translated F image execution environment contains a limited Alpha CPU emulator as aK fallback interpreter for untranslatable Alpha code. Limited because it only A has to deal with user-mode code, but a CPU emulator nevertheless.   K Tom is right, Alpha would be a good platform to test it on. We think we can G skip that though, and test it straight away on our Itanium systems when  VMS/IPF arrives.   Regards, Robert.  ( "Everhart" <ge@gce.com> wrote in message% news:aq1uqn$8pi$1@bob.news.rcn.net...  > Tom Cole wrote: I > > I bet as one of the authors of CHARON-VAX, he's not pulling it out of  his  > > butt... :) > > L > > If you think about the issues around implementing a CISC instruction set via G > > emulation, each VAX instruction neatly translates into a reasonably  small K > > but non-zero-sized amount of logic, expressable as a method switch case  orI > > whatever invocation architecture you choose.  The cost of translating  the G > > instruction is relatively low compared to the cost of executing it, K > > especially since many VAX instructions require *quite* a bit of code to L > > implement correctly - for example, D_FLOAT math isn't trivial on an IEEED > > architecture, and EMODD becomes more than a few lines of code to	 implement  > > as a result... :)  > > I > > By comparison, each Alpha instruction is quite a bit more succinct in  whatH > > it does - the cost of decoding the instruction could easily match or evenB > > overwhelm the cost of executing the logic associated with that instruction.G > > In short, you don't get a pleasing tradeoff between virtual machine  speed < > > and compiled methods like you do in a CISC architecture. > > H > > I would love to see an Alpha emulator worth it's salt, and I believe thatL > > SRI are the folks who can do it, but I do agree that a 1:4 ratio is veryG > > unlikely between emulated and physical machine speeds - even with a  wickedI > > clever instruction decoder, it's hard to imagine anything faster than  1:20I > > or something like that, especially given that you pretty much have to C > > emulate the virtual memory processing no matter how clever your  instruction 4 > > decoder is, and that's a bear in it's own right. > > J > > In short, I don't think that chip complexity is the issue; it's more a+ > > fundamental aspect of RISC versus CISC.  > >  > > = > > "Keith A. Lewis" <lewis@mazda.mitre.org> wrote in message , > > news:apuc51$9mv$1@newslocal.mitre.org... > > B > >>"Robert Boers" <robert.boers@softresint.com> writes in article > > H > > <3dc24668$1@news.deckpoint.ch> dated Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:16:21 +0100: > > I > >>>The ratio of 1.5 GHz to 400 MHz is far too optimistic, and mapping a  > >>
 > > 64-bit > > H > >>>CPU emulator on a 32-bit host system is * very * inefficient. Given > >> > > Alpha's  > > F > >>>excellent arithmetic units, a reasonable host would be a dual AMD HammerI > >>>system. A dual 2 GHz Hammer system would provide the equivalent of a  > >>	 > > 100 -  > > & > >>>140 MHz Alpha, not very exciting. > >>J > >>I agree that Dean's ratio is over-optomistic, and the way he presented itL > >>made it sound like he pulled the numbers out of his butt.  Are you doing > >  > > the  > > L > >>same thing?  If there are ALU and transistor-count comparisons out there' > >>somewhere, I'd like to take a look.  > >>/ > >>--Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org B > >>The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. > >  > >  > > J > I would suggest that such an emulator would be most usefully implemented onJ > a 64 bit machine first. I would suggest using an alpha. Strangely enough thisH > would not be quite as useless as might first appear: if done right, it would J > provide a way to emulate privileged code in user mode emulation. However itI > certainly is not a trivial task to do all the memory mapping and so on, ? > though perhaps the presence of PAL code would make it easier.  > E > I will also remind the crew here that DEC did some part of an alpha L > emulator way back when as part of alpha development. I don't know how muchJ > was there,and it certainly emulated no very current alpha processor, butK > was a sort of proof point. Wonder if Mr. Supnick will ever persuade those  who L > have it to release it as a starting point? I think it was called Mannequin (whichI > was then dressed with things like VEST and TIE [never heard of anything  called > PANTS though ;-) ]). > J > I suspect Mannequin may not have been totally complete since its job was toG > help with very early development, not to support the mature VMS OS. I  believe L > it ran on Vax (after all, what else was there back then?)...which leads toK > the image of running a VAX emulator on some machine like a PC in order to  run L > an Alpha emulator on the emulated VAX in order to do something or other... > : > Surely an exercise for those over-endowed with patience. >  > Glenn Everhart >  > J > BTW found the post with the Cswing fix and am merging with Grant's fixedK > up code.  I will experiment to see if the bump of wildcard context can be  > now removed. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:59:31 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 1 Subject: Christmas advertising HP should be doing H Message-ID: <73vx9.187209$%h2.9946@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  + "                    Why pay more for less?   1 Give your company the gift that pays for itself - &       Alphaservers and OpenVMS from HP  3 With rock-steady reliability, you can enjoy up-time 4     measured in years for all your critical business: applications - email, web serving, transaction processing,)               data warehousing, and more.   6 It's like experiencing the joy of Christmas every day.*                 Happy Computing, from HP."  * (c) 2002, John Smith. All rights Reserved.  2 p.s. - HP, you're behind on your royalty payments.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:27:06 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Configuring VMS as DNS server5 Message-ID: <ejpx9.120580$aa2.1464094@news.chello.at>   _ In article <3DC535E7.15BC22DC@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:  >VMS v7.3-1,( >TCPIP 5.3-xx? (Whatever was on the CD.)   TCPIP 5.3-15  E >I'm in the process of becoming Linux free. I need to replace the DNS  >server on my home LAN.   I I do understand 'M$ free' (which is problematic because M$ is a very good : game console) but what's the motivation for 'Linux free' ?  3 >How do I configure my VMS machine to do this task?   C Just like in U**X/LINUX. It's a BIND implementation (AFAIK, BIND 9)   F $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG	to setup TCPIP as DNS Server (create dirs,* 				create account, create/enable service) 				but only once   J Then copy the config file from U**X to TCPIP's BIND dir (currently this isI SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$BIND]), copy also the zone files of the primary zones I or create/edit them there and finally start BIND (by reboot/restart-TCPIP < or by @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$BIND_STARTUP once) and you're done.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 05:54:09 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)* Subject: Re: Configuring VMS as DNS server= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0211040554.5bfc4a09@posting.google.com>   k peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<ejpx9.120580$aa2.1464094@news.chello.at>... a > In article <3DC535E7.15BC22DC@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:  > >VMS v7.3-1,* > >TCPIP 5.3-xx? (Whatever was on the CD.) >  > TCPIP 5.3-15 > G > >I'm in the process of becoming Linux free. I need to replace the DNS  > >server on my home LAN.  > K > I do understand 'M$ free' (which is problematic because M$ is a very good < > game console) but what's the motivation for 'Linux free' ? > B knowing vms, and comparing the two, you have to ask that question?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:23:32 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> * Subject: Re: Configuring VMS as DNS server$ Message-ID: <3dc6bb82$1@news.si.com>  ? >I'd going into TCPIP (there may be an alias verb UCX) (invokes E >TCPIP$UCP, I think) and look at the HELP for SET HOST and SET CONFIG  >HOST or SET HOST/PERM  I Neither SET CONFIG HOST nor SET HOST/PERM exist.  SET HOST is a permanent  setting command.  # What does this have to so with DNS?  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:20:46 -0700. From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: Digital Press discount D Message-ID: <OF23FE54EA.A715A488-ON07256C67.004E7F3C@mck.us.ray.com>   Folks:  J I've been asked to pass this along.  This is certainly the right group for this information.    dave.   H ----- Forwarded by David D Miller/RWS/Raytheon/US on 11/04/2002 07:17 AM -----      DISCOUNT OFFER EXTENDED K Looking for books on OpenVMS? Go to www.openvms.compaq.com and click on the C hotlink labeled "Digital Press Bookstore for HP Technologies". It's  designedJ to cater to the needs of anyone who uses OpenVMS (or UNIX). There's always a G discount available to anyone who accesses the DP website from this link  (theE tag line in your shopping cart will read, "You received a discount of  $XX.XX8 because you qualify for our HP technologies discount.").  F Right now, tho, we are running a year-end special of 30% off any title
 purchased.  H We announced that the discount would be available Oct. 15, 2002-Jan. 15, 2003.   K Due to technical difficulties, we weren't able to go live with the discount H until October 29. However, the offer has been extended by two weeks (now ends Jan. 31, 2003).  E So if you tried the site last month, please visit again--it should be  working now.  I If you encounter problems, or bought books between Oct. 15 and 29 for the F  lower discount, please contact Pam Chester at p.chester@elsevier.com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:05:21 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> # Subject: Re: Digital Press discount ' Message-ID: <3DC68CB1.C8A6CE69@vcu.edu>     it's not there at the moment...    David D Miller wrote:  >  > Folks: > L > I've been asked to pass this along.  This is certainly the right group for > this information.  >  > dave.  > J > ----- Forwarded by David D Miller/RWS/Raytheon/US on 11/04/2002 07:17 AM > -----  >  > DISCOUNT OFFER EXTENDED M > Looking for books on OpenVMS? Go to www.openvms.compaq.com and click on the E > hotlink labeled "Digital Press Bookstore for HP Technologies". It's 
 > designedL > to cater to the needs of anyone who uses OpenVMS (or UNIX). There's always > a I > discount available to anyone who accesses the DP website from this link  > (theG > tag line in your shopping cart will read, "You received a discount of  > $XX.XX: > because you qualify for our HP technologies discount."). > H > Right now, tho, we are running a year-end special of 30% off any title > purchased. > J > We announced that the discount would be available Oct. 15, 2002-Jan. 15, > 2003.  > M > Due to technical difficulties, we weren't able to go live with the discount J > until October 29. However, the offer has been extended by two weeks (now > ends Jan. 31, 2003). > G > So if you tried the site last month, please visit again--it should be  > working now. > K > If you encounter problems, or bought books between Oct. 15 and 29 for the H >  lower discount, please contact Pam Chester at p.chester@elsevier.com.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:42:09 -0700. From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com># Subject: RE: Digital Press discount D Message-ID: <OF856EFEFE.1386AD77-ON07256C67.00665861@mck.us.ray.com>   Folks:   http://www.openvms.compaq.com   I really does work.  Look for the Digital Press logo on the bottom right of 4 the first page.  It's orange on my Netscape browser.   dave.    ------------------------------  " Date: Mon,  4 Nov 02 17:29:31 +100 From: rok@nuk.uni-lj.si   Subject: Disk size specification& Message-ID: <3dc6bc91$1@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>    OpenVMS V7.3, Alpha and VAX. D  I have two RA82 lookalike disks, but alas, they differ: one has one: cylinder less than the other, they differ for 1120 blocks.@  I there a way to tell VMS both disks are of the same size, as I would like to shadow them.-  INITIALIZE/SIZE=1312155 would be so handy :(    Regards,  D Rok Vidmar                       Internet:  rok.vidmar@nuk.uni-lj.si; National and University Library  Phone:     +386 1 421 5461 ; Turjaska 1, SI-1000 Ljubljana    Fax:       +386 1 421 5464  Slovenia   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 10:18:12 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: DS10L and backups on an IDE CDRW ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0211041018.545a7be6@posting.google.com>   7 does the cdwrite program mentioned on this board before 9 allow you to install and IDE CDRW drive and do consistent 1 backups (daily) on rewritable cd's on a ds10l ... . would this work with an automated dcl routine? Any success stories?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2002 23:30:18 -0800 2 From: johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se (Johan Nilsson) Subject: Re: errno equivalent = Message-ID: <c3c6388a.0211032330.5f907a1c@posting.google.com>   \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C2818F.EE00A000@sulfer.icius.com>..." > Depends on your language, Johan. > F > In C errno is supported, and it's thread safe; ie you get a separateJ > errno for each thread (unlike Windows (hawk, spit)). In BASIC there's anI > system-maintained integer called ERR that contains the last error. Then  > there's $status in DCL.  >   E I'll have to correct you. The last error code has always been kept on B a per-thread basis under Windows (at least on NT 3.x and forwards,A don't ask me about 9x because that's basically MS-DOS (hawk, spit E ;-)). A system well designed from the start with threads as the basic ? unit of execution would not use a 'global' error code (and as I ? imagine you like VMS, well, you know who was the original chief  architect of NT).   @ If you literally refer to 'errno' - that's up to the different CC run-time library implementors to implement per-thread which I guess B hasn't always been the case. I _do_ know that this has caused manyF griefs under *nix when threading became popular though and implemented as an afterthought.   D > I'm with John Briggs though, I prefer my return statii as functionJ > return values, or write arguments. You /know/ where the value came from. >   D That's all well and fine and I agree that it could potentially causeD problems. On the other hand it forces the lazy programmer to declareE an additional local variable to keep the return value even if it only  indicates success.  F The main reason I'm asking is actually portability as I'm porting some? stuff to VMS that was previously running under NT/linux and (of % course) we relied on using the idiom:    bool DoSomething() {    ...      if (FAILED(<some op>))   {      return false;    }      ...  }   A and left it up to the caller to decide if he wanted to know _why_ ? something went wrong (call GetLastError()/use errno), or simply E propagate the failure upwards in the call chain. IMHO there's usually D not much use to propagate a specific error too far up the call chainE anyway, since it's generally not feasible to put in the capability to F cope with 'low-level' specific errors at the highest level (other than( for reporting). Don't flame me for that.  E However, neither do I want to get involved in any kind of VMS/NT/*nix B flame war as each one has its strengths and weaknesses. I was only8 interested if this there was an errno equivalent or not.   Thanks for all replies.    // Johan     > Shane  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:20:52 -0800, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>D Subject: Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month4 Message-ID: <aq5s7m$6tgec$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  I Gee,  some of that code looks a little familiar.  Oh, I know why, I wrote  the originalJ for VAX Professional. Are those old issues on line anywhere?  I thought at one time' they were, might be fun to have a look.    Jim       8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ZQAeXdywA+jh@eisner.encompasserve.org... I > In article <8kmbsukj1a8ok6760dbamr16bgn0d9fevk@4ax.com>, Terry Whitford ' <terry.whitford@Bartter.com.au> writes:  > > Hi,  > > I > > Is there a way in DCL to work out the date of the 3rd Saturday of the G > > month ?  What I want to do is run a particular batch job on the 3rd > > > Saturday of each month.  This has to work on OpenVMS V6.2. > >  > > Thanks for any help. > >  > < > You can hack up some hairball DCL (as we all have done) or+ > run a scheduler.  Here is a CRON for VMS:  >  > L http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=t8CxB4TcKkNk%40eisner.encompasserve.org &output=gplain > / > The crontab entry would look similar to this:  >  > # . > #  At 6:30 p.m. perform our 3rd Saturday run > # 5 > 30 18 15-21 * 6  submit/queue=sys$batch/noprint/log  disk1:[dir]third_sat.com > > > Note that the 3rd occurrence of any day of the week falls in > 15-21. > 4 > The tricky part for the DCL is to figure out whichB > day of the week for the upcoming month that you want to RESUBMIT8 > for is the 3rd Saturday.  The obvious easy thing to do: > is to have it submit for every saturday and then test to > see if third saturday. > + > Resubmit to run at 9 a.m. one week later:  > 2 > $ submit/after="today+7-09:00"  ! Google example >  > Paranoid check:  > # > $ fullday = f$cvtime(,,"weekday")  > $ if fullday .nes. "Saturday"  > $ thenC > $   write sys$output "Hey, something is screwy, it is ''fullday'" 
 > $   stop	 > $ endif  >  >  > Test for 3rd saturday: > ) > $ intday = f$integer(f$cvtime(,,"day"))	> > $ third_saturday = ((intday .gt. 14) .and. (intday .lt. 22))% > $ if .not. third_saturday then exit  >c > else, do your thing. >  > Roba >m   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 07:32:49 -0600R+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) D Subject: Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month3 Message-ID: <36fUPDDenoLs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <aq5s7m$6tgec$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>, "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:iK > Gee,  some of that code looks a little familiar.  Oh, I know why, I wroter > the originalL > for VAX Professional. Are those old issues on line anywhere?  I thought at
 > one time) > they were, might be fun to have a look.i >   > 	I'm assuming you are talking about cron.com.  If you do a bit@ 	of Googling, you'll see I have been trying to attribute you for/ 	quite some time.  Here is one example of that:i  f http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=970917170055.8758%40cutler.east.dialog.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain  % 	Alas, never did add your name to it.3  8 	Are they online?  Highly doubt it as they never show upD 	in a search.  I had a bit of foresight and downloaded most of what H 	I could from the VAX Pro bulletin board even if I wasn't interested in  	it.  I downloaded VMSCRON.DOC:u  ! Directory DISK$NAME:[ROB.VAXMAGS]l  = VMSCRON.DOC;1             20/27       22-JAN-1990 04:06:48.03   9 	January 1990.  Nary a trace of an author in that source.y   				Robn   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:55:14 -0800, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>D Subject: Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month4 Message-ID: <aq61oj$6r7e2$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  L I'm not worried about the attribution, glad to see it's still alive.  Sadly, after several moves, I've lostG my copy of the magazine.  Your post allowed me a moment to remember then glory days.m  
 Sigh,  Jim  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:36fUPDDenoLs@eisner.encompasserve.org...rG > In article <aq5s7m$6tgec$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>, "James Gessling"  <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:?G > > Gee,  some of that code looks a little familiar.  Oh, I know why, Ir wrote- > > the originalK > > for VAX Professional. Are those old issues on line anywhere?  I thought5 at > > one time+ > > they were, might be fun to have a look.v > >p >t? > I'm assuming you are talking about cron.com.  If you do a bit0A > of Googling, you'll see I have been trying to attribute you foro0 > quite some time.  Here is one example of that: >i >eL http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=970917170055.8758%40cutler.east.dialog. com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain >h& > Alas, never did add your name to it. > 9 > Are they online?  Highly doubt it as they never show upuD > in a search.  I had a bit of foresight and downloaded most of whatH > I could from the VAX Pro bulletin board even if I wasn't interested in  > it.  I downloaded VMSCRON.DOC: >.# > Directory DISK$NAME:[ROB.VAXMAGS]h > ? > VMSCRON.DOC;1             20/27       22-JAN-1990 04:06:48.03o >q: > January 1990.  Nary a trace of an author in that source. >r > Rob. >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:44:53 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>sD Subject: RE: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each MonthK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B93@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   8 Kevin Barkes has the old "DCL Dialogue" columns archived on his site at kgb dot com.t   WWWebb tJ (who, as he types this, is looking at two of the "I (heart) DCL" stickers I  that he put on magnets and covered with plastic laminate for purposes ofh  preservation.)c    J  Gee,  some of that code looks a little familiar.  Oh, I know why, I wrote
  the originalwK  for VAX Professional. Are those old issues on line anywhere?  I thought at 	  one times(  they were, might be fun to have a look.    Jim r      8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ZQAeXdywA+jh@eisner.encompasserve.org...eI > In article <8kmbsukj1a8ok6760dbamr16bgn0d9fevk@4ax.com>, Terry Whitfordt' <terry.whitford@Bartter.com.au> writes:  > > Hi,u > >sI > > Is there a way in DCL to work out the date of the 3rd Saturday of the,G > > month ?  What I want to do is run a particular batch job on the 3rdr> > > Saturday of each month.  This has to work on OpenVMS V6.2. > >e > > Thanks for any help. > >  >l< > You can hack up some hairball DCL (as we all have done) or+ > run a scheduler.  Here is a CRON for VMS:c >  >iL http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=t8CxB4TcKkNk%40eisner.encompasserve.org &output=gplain > / > The crontab entry would look similar to this:I >n > #t. > #  At 6:30 p.m. perform our 3rd Saturday run > # 5 > 30 18 15-21 * 6  submit/queue=sys$batch/noprint/logt disk1:[dir]third_sat.com > > > Note that the 3rd occurrence of any day of the week falls in > 15-21. >r4 > The tricky part for the DCL is to figure out whichB > day of the week for the upcoming month that you want to RESUBMIT8 > for is the 3rd Saturday.  The obvious easy thing to do: > is to have it submit for every saturday and then test to > see if third saturday. >c+ > Resubmit to run at 9 a.m. one week later:l >s2 > $ submit/after="today+7-09:00"  ! Google example >  > Paranoid check:  >e# > $ fullday = f$cvtime(,,"weekday")o > $ if fullday .nes. "Saturday"m > $ thenC > $   write sys$output "Hey, something is screwy, it is ''fullday'"l
 > $   stop	 > $ endifu >  >b > Test for 3rd saturday: >I) > $ intday = f$integer(f$cvtime(,,"day"))o> > $ third_saturday = ((intday .gt. 14) .and. (intday .lt. 22))% > $ if .not. third_saturday then exite >p > else, do your thing. >r > Rob. >  ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:49:45 GMT 9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>eD Subject: Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month/ Message-ID: <3DC67A20.C0B327E7@eps.zko.dec.com>d  
 $ typ tmp.comg* $First=f$cvtime("1-"+p1,"absolute","date")C $Days=f$loc(f$extr(0,2,f$cvt(First,,"WEEKDAY")),"SaFrThWeTuMoSu")/2s? $First_Saturday=f$cvtime(First + "+''Days'-","absolute","date")tC $Third_Saturday=f$cvtime(First_Saturday + "+14-","absolute","date")>8 $write sys$output "''first', ''Days', ''First_saturday', ''Third_Saturday'"     $ @tmp& 1-NOV-2002, 1, 2-NOV-2002, 16-NOV-2002
 $ @tmp jan& 1-JAN-2002, 4, 5-JAN-2002, 19-JAN-2002 $ @tmp jan-2003 & 1-JAN-2003, 3, 4-JAN-2003, 18-JAN-2003     Terry Whitford wrote:B   > Hi,b >?G > Is there a way in DCL to work out the date of the 3rd Saturday of thesE > month ?  What I want to do is run a particular batch job on the 3rdI< > Saturday of each month.  This has to work on OpenVMS V6.2. >t > Thanks for any help. >t
 > Regards, > Terry-   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 07:38:02 -0600c+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) D Subject: Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month3 Message-ID: <5fT$5p1NSv5x@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  k In article <3DC67A20.C0B327E7@eps.zko.dec.com>, Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> writes:t > $ typ tmp.comc, > $First=f$cvtime("1-"+p1,"absolute","date")E > $Days=f$loc(f$extr(0,2,f$cvt(First,,"WEEKDAY")),"SaFrThWeTuMoSu")/2eA > $First_Saturday=f$cvtime(First + "+''Days'-","absolute","date") E > $Third_Saturday=f$cvtime(First_Saturday + "+14-","absolute","date") : > $write sys$output "''first', ''Days', ''First_saturday', > ''Third_Saturday'" >  >  > $ @tmp( > 1-NOV-2002, 1, 2-NOV-2002, 16-NOV-2002 > $ @tmp jan( > 1-JAN-2002, 4, 5-JAN-2002, 19-JAN-2002 > $ @tmp jan-2003o( > 1-JAN-2003, 3, 4-JAN-2003, 18-JAN-2003 >   7 	That is really slick.  Now to figure out why it works.e   			Rob   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:54:51 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> D Subject: RE: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each MonthK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B94@rlghncst964.usps.gov>o   Rob, d  3 I've broken out a complex line to show he does it.     Example below. at ***c  7 BTW, the quickest way I've found to validate date inputa% in DCL is to use WEEKDAY and $STATUS.e  	 Warning: E2 This has only been tested under VMS Alpha 7.2-1.     Y$SMV.   (Your $STATUS may vary.)   :^)n  & $   WKDY = f$cvtime(SAVDAT,,"WEEKDAY") $!? $!               ; if it isn't status %X0030001 then ask again.v $!4 $   if $status .nes. "%X00030001" then goto GET_DATE $!3 $!               ; if we're here it's a good date. r     ***u   Now, about that Saturday stuff:s   $ type tmp.com; $! get the date for the first of the month specified in p1.  $!* $First=f$cvtime("1-"+p1,"absolute","date") $!< $! Expand the following line so we work from the inside out. $!D $!Days=f$loc(f$extr(0,2,f$cvt(First,,"WEEKDAY")),"SaFrThWeTuMoSu")/2 $!? $! tmpvar1 is the day of the week for the first day of month p1m $!' $  tmpvar1 = f$cvtime(First,,"WEEKDAY")t $!E $! tmpvar2 is the first two letters of the day of the week in tmpvar1  $!# $  tmpvar2 = f$extract(0,2,TMPVAR1)  $!L $! Days is the number of days **before** Saturday the first day of the month is.s $!K $! This means that the first Saturday will be the ''DAYS' of the month, andsL $! in accordance with the laws of the calendar, the third Saturday must fall $! on DAYS+14. $! $! Don't let the /2 fool you.) $!G $! It's because 2 letter day-of-the-week strings are the shortest ones  G $! that you can use and still give each day of the week a unique value.  $! $!  Saturday  =  0/2 = 0 daysn $!  Friday    =  2/2 = 1 day $!  Thursday  =  4/2 = 2 daysc $!  Wednesday =  6/2 = 3 daysn $!  Tuesday   =  8/2 = 4 daysp $!  Monday    = 10/2 = 5 daysi $!  Sunday    = 12/2 = 6 daysi $!- $ Days = f$locate(tmpvar2,"SaFrThWeTuMoSu")/2i $!? $First_Saturday=f$cvtime(First + "+''Days'-","absolute","date") C $Third_Saturday=f$cvtime(First_Saturday + "+14-","absolute","date")cK $write sys$output "''first', ''Days', ''First_saturday', ''Third_Saturday'"3 $ Exit    ;      That is really slick.  Now to figure out why it works.                   Rob   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 09:38:06 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)sD Subject: Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month3 Message-ID: <PA2VYOWuOKTn@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  c In article <aq61oj$6r7e2$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>, "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:tN > I'm not worried about the attribution, glad to see it's still alive.  Sadly,  > after several moves, I've lostI > my copy of the magazine.  Your post allowed me a moment to remember ther
 > glory days.  >    Jim,  A 	We are all critics and most of us go back and tweek DCL routines  	(i.e.:i   <NODE>$ cd ;'cdc NODE_YOUNGR.RYOUNG.UTL.COM> cd,  $ dir/date/size=all cd.com;   , Directory $1$DGA4098:[YOUNGR.RYOUNG.UTL.COM]  = CD.COM;376                29/36        8-MAR-2000 12:44:22.25d  > 	My CD.COM is at version 376... all this to say, that cron.com? 	was/is a slick piece of DCL and hope you don't mind my tweeks.-  B 	I have since added your name as the author to the versions I have 	laying around.p   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:47:42 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>oD Subject: Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month, Message-ID: <3DC6C0CB.AFD5DE9B@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:@ >         That is really slick.  Now to figure out why it works.  1 Find out what day of week the 1st of a month is. d4 Calculate how many days "away" the next saturday is.N  (for instance, if 1-JUN is a tuesday, the next saturday is 4 days away, so it	 is Jun-5.e  1 Then add 7 days for each saturday for that month.   1 Very cleverly done, congrats Mr Hein van Heuvel !r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:04:17 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>a Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Siten5 Message-ID: <aq629v$6riku$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DC3553A.41D33DE8@fsi.net...a > Syltrem wrote: > >  > > It's already there!, > >aJ > > TITLE: Market OpenVMS just like Tru64 - not only for so-called "niche" > > marketse > >i& > > There's only one me too right now. >-) > I don't see that one. The ones I see at1 >8L http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/Advocacy/Issues/MeToo/Index.cfm?IssueCategoryI D=0? >  > are: >D > Universal SYSLOG Capabilitiesm > CISC COMPILER SUPPORTm# > Documentation on Legacy Equipmenta< > roadmap to migrate CA's Advantage:Gen to HP OpenVMS on IPF > NAPSE North American Support > Embeded Wireless LAN in Ipaq >...  G I took a look a few minutes ago and the "Universal SYSLOG Capabilities"lF issue is now gone. Is it possible that once this Advocacy group gets a6 certain number of "Me Too" votes it removes the issue?   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:35:35 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: HP Advocacy Site 0 Message-ID: <01C283ED.EC57CCA0@sulfer.icius.com>  C Late Friday I entered another issue with the same title. It's still : showing up today, at the bottom of the list. Hit it, guys.   Shanel   -----Original Message-----2 From: Peter Weaver [mailto:peter.weaver@stelco.ca]' Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:04 AMb To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site0    < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DC3553A.41D33DE8@fsi.net...n > Syltrem wrote: > >c > > It's already there!> > >eJ > > TITLE: Market OpenVMS just like Tru64 - not only for so-called "niche" > > marketsn > >m& > > There's only one me too right now. >s) > I don't see that one. The ones I see at  >hH http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/Advocacy/Issues/MeToo/Index.cfm?IssueCateg oryI D=0  >e > are: >  > Universal SYSLOG Capabilitiesg > CISC COMPILER SUPPORTn# > Documentation on Legacy Equipment < > roadmap to migrate CA's Advantage:Gen to HP OpenVMS on IPF > NAPSE North American Support > Embeded Wireless LAN in Ipaq >...  G I took a look a few minutes ago and the "Universal SYSLOG Capabilities" F issue is now gone. Is it possible that once this Advocacy group gets a6 certain number of "Me Too" votes it removes the issue?   -- Peter WeaverH Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theaG company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contractsx to.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:14:40 GMTu+ From: "P.Lj" <plj@NOSPAMbyron.ext.telia.se>  Subject: Re: HP advocacy surveyp2 Message-ID: <kMrx9.2994$1r1.95256@newsc.telia.net>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:q> > And why is there a [Continue>>>] button when the page at the@ > same time says "page 1 of 1". Maybe there's a "page 2 of 1"... > C > (Well, it says "page 1/1", but I'm sure this is what it means...)s > 6 > Seems a bit of bad design in not just one way, IMHO. >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.t  G I got 'problems' using Mozilla, tried IExploder and it works and shows.    Shame they don't mention VMS.   
  >>> ^P.Lj   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:42:40 -0500/ From: "Encompass - HP-ETS" <KilleenJ@toast.net>  Subject: HP-ETS 2002 CDm/ Message-ID: <usd8s6i82u16a3@corp.supernews.com>   I It is likely that any member of Encompass will be able to request a CD oftH the conference presentations at no additional charge.  Details are being8 worked out and I will have them in about a week or so...     --   Jeff Killeen   All Info: http://www.Killeen.ccr  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:47:31 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: I have to tell you this funny story) Message-ID: <3DC62613.E4B7B38D@127.0.0.1>s   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > ...e> > Aparently I was spamed in Chinese.  If pc's could laugh ....  F It's not impossible that the latest SPAMbots are using the word URGENTD in a subject line combined with the title or some heading found on a page with your email address.s  @ I suppose this one is funny, but when you get 90 billion millionD trillion of the things, it's not so funny, particularly when genuine email gets lost amid the junk.   -- c? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences3 nclews at csc dot comv   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 03:35:11 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 0 Subject: Re: I have to tell you this funny story, Message-ID: <3DC6313E.B5E3D43D@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:B > I suppose this one is funny, but when you get 90 billion millionF > trillion of the things, it's not so funny, particularly when genuine  > email gets lost amid the junk.  K I guess that there is, after all, an advantage of running a corporate emailnF infrastructure on wintel junk. If it loses 10% of your emails, it is aI sizeable amount of junk mail you don't get if you normally get 90 billion & million trillion messages each day :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:16:34 +0000o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: I have to tell you this funny story) Message-ID: <3DC66522.E165E556@127.0.0.1>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Nic Clews wrote:D > > I suppose this one is funny, but when you get 90 billion millionH > > trillion of the things, it's not so funny, particularly when genuine" > > email gets lost amid the junk. > M > I guess that there is, after all, an advantage of running a corporate emailsH > infrastructure on wintel junk. If it loses 10% of your emails, it is aK > sizeable amount of junk mail you don't get if you normally get 90 billionn( > million trillion messages each day :-)  # OK well I did exaggerate, slightly.o  G The problem I'll always maintain is that you could lose real email, theo> filtering doesn't reduce all, but spammers are getting wise to
 filtering.  D I was watching an email server on VMS rejecting messages (MX5.2 fromC www.madgoat.com) a while back and I was impressed, VMS can do it asaE well. The admin had it well set up and was eliminating more than 10%,d probably nearer to 90% junk. -- r? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comc   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 07:12:18 -0600e- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n0 Subject: Re: I have to tell you this funny story3 Message-ID: <GdJr$PKF2MH0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3DC62613.E4B7B38D@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > B > I suppose this one is funny, but when you get 90 billion millionF > trillion of the things, it's not so funny, particularly when genuine  > email gets lost amid the junk.  <    Now are those true British billions and trillions, or the9    American style I understand has been recently adopted?g   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 14:49:13 GMT + From: "Mike Kier" <michael.kier@compaq.com>i0 Subject: Re: I have to tell you this funny story1 Message-ID: <JNvx9.26$lD.498744@news.cpqcorp.net>-  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A16635.DE4AFB2D@SendSpamHere.ORG...> > In article <857e9e41.0211021309.c41314d@posting.google.com>,3 susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:lI > >As you all know, we are having the VMS Symposium in a couple of weeks.p@ > > Last week I received an urgent email message from the person< > >responsible for registration, it was a forwarded message. > >-@ > >On the orginal messge the subject line was Urgent the OpenVMSF > >Symposium but the body of the message was all in Chinese, obviouslyH > >concerned since we do have folks coming from China,  I then forwardedH > >the "Urgent" message to the OpenVMS Ambassador in China asking him if) > >he would translate the message for me.3 > >( > >Which he did. > >)? > >Aparently I was spamed in Chinese.  If pc's could laugh ....  > >t > >sue >hE > The "cat" story you told us at dinner at Jake's Steaks was far more  humorus! >e > :) >i >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >g6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"  ! Well, perhaps not to the cat! :-)A   --	 Mike Kier 0 Consultant, HP Consulting & Integration Services Cincinnati, OH, USA  mike.kier@hp.com  ' "Practice random acts of VMS marketing"    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:16:51 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>0 Subject: RE: I have to tell you this funny story0 Message-ID: <01C283EB.50C312B0@sulfer.icius.com>  F Absolutely the spammers harvest this group. This is the /only/ place IG use this address outside the company. It's also the only address I havee4 that gets spam, so I know my usual precautions work.   Shane    -----Original Message-----3 From: Robert F. Schaefer [mailto:rschaefe@gcfn.org] ) Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 4:53 PM@ To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comk0 Subject: Re: I have to tell you this funny story      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DC44E0E.5D8FF855@videotron.ca... > Sue Skonetski wrote:A > > On the orginal messge the subject line was Urgent the OpenVMS1= > > Symposium but the body of the message was all in Chinese,m >rE > Interesting. I suspect it may have been a prank. I am not sure that  spammersJ > are smart enough to know that you are VMS related or that there is a VMS
 symposium.  0 Perhaps not.  I recently found this in my inbox:   |Return-Path: <info@momss.nl> D |Received: from post-20.mail.nl.demon.net (post-20.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.1])n7 | by mail.gcfn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04559e> | for xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:04:26 -0500 (EST)0 |Received: from [212.238.84.155] (helo=MailUser)7 | by post-20.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1)S | id 186GRV-000Giw-00-7 | for xxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:24:58 +0000e |From: <info@momss.nl>* |To: "Robert F. Schaefer" xxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx( |Subject: VIP - VMS Information Provider |Sender: <info@momss.nl> |Mime-Version: 1.0- |Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"e  G The only plausable place they could have gotten my 'mail address is viaaH c.o.v-- I'm prepared to believe Encompass isn't selling my name to thirdG partys, as this is the first obviously non-DEC^WComp^WHP affiliated VMSA< related msg I've gotten ever.  And I did *not* request this.  G If spammerz are targeting VMS users, it's gotta be a good sign.  Can''t  seesF them wasting their valuable time on a product that no-one will need... :)   Bob7   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:48:51 GMTg2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> Subject: Icons on Eisner?u+ Message-ID: <3DC67A2F.32148C2D@digital.com>s  ? At work I have installations of both the OSU web server (sorry,i can't G     recall version, probably 3.6 or 3.6x) and CSWS (Apache for OpenVMS)  V1.3.M(     On both of them, by adding the lines  .     <link rel="shortcut icon" href="vms.ico" >6     <link rel="icon" type="image/ico" href="vms.ico" >  F     to a page, the icon shows up on Netscape V7.0 on W2K, IE bookmarks onG     W2k, and CSWB (Mozilla on OpenVMS) V1.0. (Sorry, these are internal  webe,     pages, so I cannot make them available.)  %     However, adding the same lines to 1     http://eisner.decus.org/~rechtman/index.htmlx      shows no icon image.(     Is it me or something on the server?    	      Mikea -- -E ---------------------------------------------------------------------iE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.n? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------, -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----a Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:39:26 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n Subject: Re: Icons on Eisner?a, Message-ID: <3DC6BEDC.A19321A6@videotron.ca>   Mike Rechtman wrote:0 >     <link rel="shortcut icon" href="vms.ico" >8 >     <link rel="icon" type="image/ico" href="vms.ico" >  ' >     However, adding the same lines to03 >     http://eisner.decus.org/~rechtman/index.htmlx  >     shows no icon image.  6 $ fetch_http http://eisner.decus.org/~rechtman/vms.ico  HTTP/1.0 200 Sending cached data MIME-version: 1.0i Server: OSU/3.7;Multinet Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT  Content-length: 0 , Last-Modified: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:01:06 GMT# Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 18:15:31 GMTe    K You may wish to check the contents of the vms.ico file ! It serves an empty.M file. Also, it is served as a text/plain. So it means that someone would need,> to add the ".ico" mapping to "image/ico" for the web server ( ( http_suffixes.conf is usually the one ).  L Out of curiosity, how is the browser supposed to render your 2 <LINK lines ?L The documentation about the <LINK tag is very hazy on what they are actuallyJ supposed to DO. They just show nice examples of what you could do (provideN links to many language versions of the same document for instance, but nothing1 about how a browser is supposed to handle those).l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:10:52 -0800' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>s@ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek8 Message-ID: <20021104101052.6a2e48ea.mathog@caltech.edu>    On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 23:04:42 GMT$ "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  K > The old adage, "Where there's smoke, there's fire" probably holds true ona > this.   ? Naw, it's the new version that should hold true for the companyg
 stockholders:s  C "What have Carly and Curly been smoking?  Shouldn't they be fired?"-   Regards,   --   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:42:41 GMTI3 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie>:. Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS/ Message-ID: <lPux9.10512$cP3.20814@news.iol.ie>V  9 "Keith A. Lewis" <lewis@mazda.mitre.org> wrote in messagew( news:apud8e$9o2$1@newslocal.mitre.org...D > The only mouse-wheel scrolling I have seen on VMS is the followingA > configuration, which (pleasantly) surprised the hell out of me:  > 0 >     * Apple G-3 (B&W) running Yellow Dog Linux/ >     * USB 3-button mouse plugged into the G-3-B >     * Mozilla running on an Alpha (VMS 7.3) displayed to the G-3 >n  L I've got scrolling working with DECterm, but on a similar indirect setup.  IL have a toy (*) running Hummingbird Exceed as an X-Server talking to my Alpha= VMS system (you can map the wheel motion to CTRL/up-arrow andl CTRL/down-arrow).   L I suspect the original poster was looking for a solution for a true VMS only desktop.   (*) otherwise known as a PC.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------H Tom Wade    | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie(all domain mailers).G EuroKom     | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;a=eirmail400;c=ie.& 30, Dale Rd | Tel:   +353 (1) 278-7878& Stillorgan  | Fax:   +353 (1) 278-78793 Co Dublin   | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimera@ Ireland     | Tip:         "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 07:16:51 -0600s- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: OPCOM suggestions3 Message-ID: <QGq4GPQomja6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3DC4FFB0.7A9D7972@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:G > 1- make sure that the OPERATOR.LOG file is written in such a way thata > TYPE/TAIL is *always* usable., > N > It is a pain to have to use TPU to look at the end of the file. (edt refusesL > to open the file since it is already opened by OPCOM, and TPU takes a long7 > time to start since operator.lot is often very large)c  ?    Letting operator.log grow large is not a sign of good systemd    management.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:18:39 +0000w. From: Graham Burley <100625.30@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: OPCOM suggestions. Message-ID: <3DC6ABEF.5A9B0CED@compuserve.com>   JF Mezei wrote:t > G > 1- make sure that the OPERATOR.LOG file is written in such a way that  > TYPE/TAIL is *always* usable.. > N > It is a pain to have to use TPU to look at the end of the file. (edt refusesL > to open the file since it is already opened by OPCOM, and TPU takes a long7 > time to start since operator.lot is often very large)e   Shameless plug ALERT!i  D GRAB is rather good for working with OPERATOR.LOG, here's an example especially for JF:  4 $ grab sys$manager:operator.log gb/cut=opcom/context %GRAB-I-NEWCONTEXT, new contexte  --- cut ---8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   4-NOV-2002 16:59:18.81  %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user GB on PLENTY _PLENTY$FTA3:, CHOCOLATE    --- cut ---8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   4-NOV-2002 17:00:14.23  %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user GB on PLENTY  _PLENTY$FTA3:, XL cycling shorts $ 4 $ grab sys$manager:operator.log gb/cut=opcom/context! %GRAB-I-USECONTEXT, using contextr  --- cut ---8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   4-NOV-2002 17:05:01.98  %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user GB on PLENTY _PLENTY$FTA4:, More tea Vicar?    1 http://www.encompasserve.org/~burley/grab_src.ziph   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:50:40 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>c Subject: Re: Palladium article$ Message-ID: <3dc6c1dd$1@news.si.com>  F >   You ever install Exceed?  It puts an icon on your desktop which is$ >   not in the file system anywhere.  . But Microsoft's TweakUI might let you hide it. -- 8A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comrA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com5= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 10:11:08 -0800k1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)e" Subject: Re: Remote Console access= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0211041011.5b572015@posting.google.com>6   "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9855@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net  > A few suggestions:F > http://www.tditx.com/products consoleworks.html (ConsoleWorks is std4 > console pkg included with Alpha GS Series servers)8 > http://www.robomon.com/products/detail robocentral.htmC > http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Product.asp?ID=1210 (CA follow-on tol > VAXcluster Console)   B And, in the interest of fairness, let's not leave out Ki Networks'E Command Line Interface Manager (CLIM) -- http://kinetworks.com/  Runs " on OpenVMS, Unix/Linux, & Windows.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 09:46:15 -0800r1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)/0 Subject: Re: Remote VMScluster recovery question< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0211040946.7cfa9b4@posting.google.com>  c norm.raphael@metso.com wrote in message news:<OFC39C0634.72F66725-ON85256C63.00751630@metso.com>...h3 > I have 2 pairs of controllers at each of 2 sites..3 > Last night something caused the pe connections ont@ > the pair at site a to close.  I do not know if the controllers > lost power or rebooted.m    It might be helpful to implementB SYS$EXAMPLES:LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS.MAR and include these LAN-basedB storage controllers in the configuration so you can get reports on1 their reachability in the form of OPCOM messages.g  D (While you can't run LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS on these controller nodes> themselves, the OpenVMS nodes in the cluster can report on the@ controllers' status from the OpenVMS nodes' viewpoint, since the? controllers do send out Hello packets just like an OpenVMS node. would.)o  = > All true physical_disk-physical-disk HB shadowsets remained2 > up.0 > 9 > There are two hardware-raid boxes in the configuration,F@ > however, with luns HB shadowed, like to like.  The Luns on the? > raid box at site a dropped out of their HB shadowsets and had6B > to be copied afterwards.   The controller(s) on the read box(es)B > are dual-ported with failover capability, but of course all luns( > would need to failover if any one did. > > > All DSA HB shadowsets went through mount verification.  The 8 > messages in Operator.log seem the same for both kinds.  iD I can't explain why the JBOD units were fine and the LUN-based unitsA had problems; you would need to check with your storage vendor on  that.s  K > Is there something I can set to avoid this, or is it just a timing issue,m  D I think raising SHADOW_MBR_TMO will be the key.  (MSCP_CMD_TMO mightC conceivably be involved.  I can't think of anything else that wouldb apply.)h  E RECNXINTERVAL wouldn't apply because these storage controllers aren'tmF members of the cluster, and don't have a VMS$VAXcluster SYSAP, because: they don't have a Connection Manager.  They only have MSCP connections.  D I don't think TIMVCFAIL would be very useful, either.  It would onlyD allow you to detect failures faster, and it appears you're much more> interested in riding through failures than detecting them more quickly. :-)   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:52:52 +0100 (MET)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>% Subject: Slow performance with BACKUP56 Message-ID: <200211040952.KAA13417@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  8 I did see a very slow performance with BACKUP. Scenario:  : 	Backup node = dual 500Mhz processor DS20 with 4GB memory.4 	OpenVMS 7.1-2 AXP, backup media 2x73GB Seagate disk1 	parallel BACKUP of 10 Alphas a two disk. Evererye1 	disk is MSCP mounted on the backup node. The tena6 	Alpas are connected via 100BaseTX and the backup node6 	with 1000BaseSC. For the backup we used the following@ 	command BACK/IMA/VER/REC DISKn: DISKm:[BACKUP]DISKn.IBCK/SAVE -@ 	/noCRC/GROUP=0. The disk's on board write cache was enabled -->) 	18.5MB/s possible throuput to the disks.n  I I started the backup last monday. Two backups will be processed till now.gH The complete backup will have less then 180GB --> less then 16GB/day -->? less then 0.8GB/h. I did compute the following max. throughput: F min of (10*100Mb/s, 1000Mb/s, 2*18.5MB/s) = 37MB/s = 133MB/h --> afterF three hour BACKUP must be finished. Does anybody have an idea why not?C Is anything wrong with my calculation or anything else? Any help isi welcome.  # TIA and best regards Rudolf Wingertc   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 18:41:24 +0200e* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>) Subject: Re: Slow performance with BACKUP:( Message-ID: <3DC6A334.80707@tzora.co.il>  7 a. Why not use a (much) larger /BLOCK than the default?4= b. Have you checked quotas (BYTLM, FILLM and friends) for theh= account doing the backup? I don't have the recommendations at ; hand, but the process should have enough memory for severalt backup records.c/ c. Is there no/any/much other network activity?o   Mike   Rudolf Wingert wrote:0 > Hello, > : > I did see a very slow performance with BACKUP. Scenario: > < > 	Backup node = dual 500Mhz processor DS20 with 4GB memory.6 > 	OpenVMS 7.1-2 AXP, backup media 2x73GB Seagate disk3 > 	parallel BACKUP of 10 Alphas a two disk. Evereryo3 > 	disk is MSCP mounted on the backup node. The tens8 > 	Alpas are connected via 100BaseTX and the backup node8 > 	with 1000BaseSC. For the backup we used the followingB > 	command BACK/IMA/VER/REC DISKn: DISKm:[BACKUP]DISKn.IBCK/SAVE -B > 	/noCRC/GROUP=0. The disk's on board write cache was enabled -->+ > 	18.5MB/s possible throuput to the disks.a > K > I started the backup last monday. Two backups will be processed till now.nJ > The complete backup will have less then 180GB --> less then 16GB/day -->A > less then 0.8GB/h. I did compute the following max. throughput:aH > min of (10*100Mb/s, 1000Mb/s, 2*18.5MB/s) = 37MB/s = 133MB/h --> afterH > three hour BACKUP must be finished. Does anybody have an idea why not?E > Is anything wrong with my calculation or anything else? Any help isr
 > welcome. > % > TIA and best regards Rudolf WingertC >      -- h  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htm= Other useful links at http://eisner.decusserve.org/~rechtman/ E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that./? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*eE Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337 C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"eE ---------------------------------------------------------------------t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:33:39 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> M Subject: Still a few seats left! HP Alpha IT Forum Nov 6 NY Grand Hyatt Hotel"* Message-ID: <aq5t3t$6sh$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Register today  K to learn about the most up-to-date strategy, roadmaps, and developments for  our new AlphaServerT series.  F HP and Intel corporate executives and technical experts will deliver a# compelling program enabling you to:r  K Become more familiar with our vision and hear about the new Alphaserver EV7  series  . Understand HP's commitment to your IT strategy  J Learn our detailed roadmap for transioning HP Alphaservers running OpenVMS" and Tru64 to Itanium based systems  G Build action plans for the future to realize your competitive advantages   We hope to see you  @ ****Wednesday, November 6th at New York's Grand Hyatt Hotel ****   REGISTER TODAY at:   http://www.hpitforums.come    K Registration for this program is open to our valued customers,partners, andh
 employees.     Lynne Hummel   Hewlett-Packardc   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 10:41:48 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?v= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0211041041.494279da@posting.google.com>$  C I was arguing VMS superiority to linux on their board when a poster'@ made the following excellent point, except he gave a link at theA end that I can't find ... anyone know what that is all about "why B vms wasn't ported to intel before", and wouldn't this be a problem= for the itanium vms port? Itanium cannot be mission critical?s      A The problem with the "widely" available and manufactured hardwareo@ is that there are a lot of compatibility issues. Also, as we seeA on this ng, there are a lot of quality issues. Since VMS will run C only on their hardware, they have complete control over the working-@ of the system. While I might not want someone completely control@ my box when it is just an apache/ftp/quake server, or it is just@ my desktop, I am not sure if I want to see these hardware piecesB in some mission critical devices like medical computers, computers@ aboard airplanes, etc. In those situations, I absolutely accept,D even demand, that someone (reputable, and trustable, and I think DECD satisfied both) have total control over the soft/hardware. Since VMSD is targeted at such "industries", besides finance, I see no problem.  @ I am not sure I would like to see a message in my browser when IA transfer my money to the bank that "sorry, our rtlX ethernet card_? misbehaved, you lost your money". See the OpenBSD kernel source-? for what they write about the rtl cards (redefines low end). In @ such situations, I want, better said demand, the best. HopefullyA such things are not present in VMS systems and in turn in mission A critical systems. However, for my home network, I don't mind when5A the network card is not the fastest or it drops more packets thanh$ it should. It is just a home system.  B I don't mind if the gov't pays a 10x surcharge in mission critical> situations and no US warship needs to be towed to harbour. OK,C that was a software issue, but the point is that they used a systemf: which was not designed for such a mission critical system.  B > You might get away with a "foreign" SCSI disk drive, but they'llC > pester you every time they come in to do provocative maintenance,t6 > blaming all problems on not buying /their/ hardware.  > I do expect my bank/hospital/military to have the funds to buy2 quality hard disks for *MISSION CRITICAL* systems.  G > By the way, oops, the only supported video hardware is obsolete stuffuG > four years old that is no longer available except at truly exorbitanti > pricing...  C So why do you need a 3d card for a box which controls the radiationnA dosage in a hospital? A simple video card which provides the user, with a 80x25 display is fine.h  B The page http://www.kjsl.com/vmsfaq/vms.htm talks about why it was not ported to Intel before.=   Vilmos   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 07:14:45 -0600y- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t@ Subject: Re: VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version3 Message-ID: <Qo+MgP$2j0kb@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <usbsbvi70qqfed@corp.supernews.com>, Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> writes:  C > Note that HP is in the process of replacing CDE with Gnome on its $ > HP-UX workstations. And so is Sun.  B    Since it was HP that foisted CDE on us, this is probably a goodC    thing.  Gnome must be easier to configure than CDE, even my kidse    can setup Gnome.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:43:48 GMT25 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version1 Message-ID: <olyx9.49$DO.989288@news.cpqcorp.net>F  < Please point the ambassador to me.  There are no such plans.     C.W.Holeman II wrote in messagea4 <77555df7.0211022058.535989ff@posting.google.com>...D >Anyone have any info on the rumor that a future release of VMS willD >support KDE? I was told by a VMS Ambassador the CDE was going to be >replaced by KDE.  >  >--  >C.W.Holeman II== >cwhii5@Julian5Locals.com                http://also.as/cwhiir >remove the fivese$ >Send spam to junkmail@earthlink.net   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 11:47:54 -0600-B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)@ Subject: Re: VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version3 Message-ID: <GBu3gU77v9SW@eisner.encompasserve.org>Y  [ In article <3DC57CF1.22128165@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e > Simon Clubley wrote: >> c= >> I sincerely hope that it will be GTK/Gnome instead of KDE.s >> 'G >> Amongst other things, GTK has been designed to support many languageeA >> bindings from day one, and has a wider range of them than KDE.  > J > Then you better hope that KOffice gets ported to Gnome (GOffice?). ThereJ > may be a similar package for Gnome, but it's never come to my attention. >   = There is a gnome-office, but I don't know how advanced it is..  * Of course, there's always Open Office. :-)  F Seriously though, I suppose it comes down to what a VMS port of such aL toolkit would be used for. Would it be used mainly for in house development,D (ie: to allow the same applications to be developed on VMS and otherH platforms), or would there suddenly be a large increase in the number of/ VMS workstations sold for office applications ?z  J I know (from your public comments) that your wish is for the latter, but I5 suspect unfortunately that the former is more likely.E  H BTW, I like GTK. I've used it quite a bit on Linux, and more recently on> Win98. (The languages that I have used it with are C and Ada).   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:03:22 GMT ( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?-> Message-ID: <eTwx9.71407$dn3.2432206@twister.southeast.rr.com>  G Oh man, I just noticed these were being posted with the name "Scratch."sK Impressive, looks like my teenage son is learning to disguise himself.  I'meI going to beat him about the head and neck for being on my laptop.  Wonder I what he was doing.  Better check the temp folders, I smell a rat.  ;)  :)n       --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.orgo        1 "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net> wrote in message13 news:3dc43688$0$17642$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net...eH > I was a bit harsh, sorry Ken.  Thought I softened the message with the > spider and fly closing.  >PG > But I will admit I was angered, once again, by the absence of VMS.  Ia wroteeF > to Stallard and Jessica about VMS being AWOL.  Hope someone learns a lesson
 > by this. > 	 > Dave...o > . > "Scratch" <scratch@aol.com> wrote in message: > news:D3Cw9.61438$dn3.2014117@twister.southeast.rr.com... > >c9 > > "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com> wrote in message 7 > > news:3dc2b758$0$17648$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net...dG > > > Explains what?  That LINUX and Windows are no considered non-stopo > > platforms,! > > > said the spider to the fly.o > > H > > I was just passing the message along.  I guess by "explains" I meant that > itK > > was the Nonstop group and not anyone related to OpenVMS.  Heck, I don't. > know > > why they left it out.F > >  > >e > > Kene > >u > > -- > > Kenneth Farmer > > http://www.OpenVMS.org > >b > >  > >e > >.9 > > "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com> wrote in messagem7 > > news:3dc2b758$0$17648$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net...dG > > > Explains what?  That LINUX and Windows are no considered non-stopH > > platforms,! > > > said the spider to the fly.o > > >i > > > --
 > > > Dave...e > > >5H > > > It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less > > > trouble. > > > -----Mark Twainr > > >o2 > > > "Scratch" <scratch@aol.com> wrote in message> > > > news:k8xw9.61154$dn3.1979508@twister.southeast.rr.com...' > > > > I guess this kinda explains it.e > > > >. > >d > > > >s > > > >/ > > > >?$ > > > > ----- Original Message -----7 > > > > From: "Moser, Jessica " <Jessica_Moser@sba.com>R4 > > > > To: "'Kenneth Farmer'" <kfarmer@openvms.org>0 > > > > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:28 AM' > > > > Subject: RE: Instapoll question  > > > >L > > > >q > > > > > Kennth -	 > > > > >iA > > > > >    This survey was sponsored and written by the NonStopn DevelopmentiG > > > > > department within HP so it's scope was limited to the NonStops
 > > platform.  > > > WeL > > > > > apologize if this wasn't communicated properly. Thank you for your > > > > interestH > > > > > in the advocacy program. Please continue to check our web siteK > > > > > (www.hpuseradvocacy.org) for future advocacy related initiatives.M	 > > > > >P$ > > > > > -----Original Message-----; > > > > > From: Kenneth Farmer [mailto:kfarmer@openvms.org].3 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:12 PM & > > > > > To: admin@hpuseradvocacy.org% > > > > > Subject: Instapoll questions	 > > > > > 	 > > > > >h* > > > > > Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?	 > > > > >1E > > > > > http://www.hpuseradvocacy.com/Surveys/2002October/index.cfms	 > > > > >j	 > > > > >,K > > > > > For which platform(s) are you developing enterprise applications?E > > > > > NonStop Kernel > > > > > HP-UXh > > > > > Tru64 UNIX > > > > > Windows- > > > > > Linux-" > > > > > Other (please elaborate) > > > >- > > > >m > > > >a > > > >T > > > >e > > >t > > >  > >c > >- >  >2   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 19:35:59 -0000y= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> - Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?h6 Message-ID: <20021104193559.26834.qmail@gacracker.org>  > On Mon, 04 Nov 2002, "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote:  H >Oh man, I just noticed these were being posted with the name "Scratch."L >Impressive, looks like my teenage son is learning to disguise himself.  I'mJ >going to beat him about the head and neck for being on my laptop.  WonderJ >what he was doing.  Better check the temp folders, I smell a rat.  ;)  :)  K I did wonder. You might want to make him get his own mail account and leaveoB yours alone. Or if he's not meant to use the machine put in a biosF password. Then I'll keep an eye out for him asking how to defeat it in alt.hacker. :-}a  J For free accounts, one reasonably good free provider is softhome.net. Fill> in any old junk on their forms and you get a free POP account.E Unfortunately it is pop-before-you-drop, but it beats the hell out ofe hotmail.  F I'd also suggest you show him some mail headers to illustrate just howG traceable mail and news is. Better that than the roasting you'd have to0* give him if he lost you your connectivity.     Doc. -- c6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2002 07:07:11 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: [very OT] OS X, the (bad?) turn3 Message-ID: <s2cUn0qDPirs@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  y In article <1fl0gq2.y1a5e41o4iz4cN%Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>, Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr (Didier Morandi) writes:tJ > I finally decided to install OS X on my iMac because I wanted to try theI > new Apple iSynch tool (yeah, I know it's a beta version and it does notr  > seem to synch anything yet :-) > @ > I was perfectly happy with 9.2.2, doing all what I need for my > stand-alone business.1 >  > Now, I have OS X.  >  > 1. where is the selector?sB > I still have the Classic selector access, so I do not need OS X.  D    What is slector?  Do you mean chooser?  For servers use Fineder's9    Go->Connect to Server.  For printers use Print Center.t  6 > 2. where is the background image customization menu?D > I used the Classic one, it did what I asked but without result (no > image)I > I used the OS X one, all images are greyed out from the "choose a file" 	 > window.sD > I dragged an image into the bg window area, it came too wide on my+ > screen and no way (found) to change this.s  ?    System Preferences -> Desktop.  None of mine are greyed out.g  . > 3. where is the Remote Access control panel?D > I tried to use the Classic one: "this application or control panelC > cannot be used in the Classic environment" (free translation from 
 > French).  D    System Preferences -> Network is probably what you want.  There's8    also an Internet Connect app for controlling a modem.9    (I don't know the French names for any of this stuff).-    -H > 4. Where is the automatic indexation feature within Sherlock? Should II > really wait for a new indexation each time I open it? Boring. I want my  > nightly processing back.  F    %F no longer brings up Sherlock.  It brings up a simple tools builtC    into Finder (like pre-Sherlock days).  Looks like this app has aeD    grep-like capability without an indexer.   Sherlock is completely    different from Classic.     > > 5. Why does the Classic indexation process not work anymore?  G    You can always boot back to OS 9 for a while to get some old featuree@    you really need.  Most Classic apps to run under OS X ClassicE    environment, but a lot of functions built using Clasic extensions u!    just don't exist yet for OS X.f  G    I don't miss indexing because I never had enough time for it to run.@   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.610 ************************