1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 06 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 613       Contents: Re: Alpha 1000 4/233 Re: alpha generation RE: alpha generationL Re: DECnet and MAC address translation:  (was: Re: Configuring OpenVM S-6.2)& Digital Equipment Corp. - DEC for Sale* Re: Digital Equipment Corp. - DEC for Sale9 Re: Digital Press discount..errata, spanking, resignation  Re: Don't Froget to Vote Re: Don't Froget to Vote Re: Don't Froget to Vote& Re: FC-AL support on VMS, coming soon?; Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month 5 FW: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It $ Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?( RE: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?( Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?( Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?( Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?( Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS? Re: HP Service5 Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It 5 Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It 5 Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It  Re: HP-ETS 2002 CD Re: HP-ETS 2002 CD Re: Icons on Eisner...continued  Re: Icons on Eisner...continued 0 Re: installing the Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Java7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek 7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek 7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek $ Re: Microsoft strikes (itself) again Re: Monitoring NIC utilization Re: Monitoring NIC utilization Re: Monitoring NIC utilization% Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS % RE: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS  newtest  Re: newtest  Re: OpenVMS & XDMCP  Re: OpenVMS & XDMCP  OT, maybe??  Re: OT, maybe??  Re: OT, maybe?? * Should have been included in the last post. Re: Should have been included in the last post. Re: Should have been included in the last post. Re: Should have been included in the last post Re: SHOW PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE Re: SHOW PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE Re: SHOW PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE  Re: Slow performance with BACKUP Re: The Leper colony at ETS  Re: The Leper colony at ETS  Re: The Leper colony at ETS = Update on the OpenVMS Advanced technical bootcamp (symposium) A Re: Update on the OpenVMS Advanced technical bootcamp (symposium) & Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>)& Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>) Re: VMS job posting sites? Re: VMS job posting sites? Re: VMS job posting sites? RE: VMS job posting sites? Re: VMS job posting sites? RE: VMS job posting sites?( Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?( Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?( Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?( Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?( Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical? Re: Voting Systems ? Re: Voting Systems ? Re: Voting Systems ? Re: Voting Systems ? Re: Voting Systems ? Re: Voting Systems ?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ RE: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose? Re: What Ethertype do I use? Re: What Ethertype do I use?# [Hobbyist] Python-VMS documentation ' Re: [Hobbyist] Python-VMS documentation ' Re: [Hobbyist] Python-VMS documentation   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:29:11 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Alpha 1000 4/233 5 Message-ID: <aq966f$7rn9g$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   5 "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> schreef in bericht - news:aq81s9$76d4b$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de... L > The name is almost correct I guess, anyway yesterday I bought two of theseJ > excellent machines (each with two RAID arrays) for just $500 for testing and , > have VMS 7.3 up and running (no surprise). > J > Is there a DCL command to show the status of the RAID arrays (DRA0, DRA1	 > etc.) ?  > G > If not, how do I find out what's going on with them - hotswaps etc. ?  >  > $ set mode /grumpy > L > How the hell can a company which produced this quality of hardware so manyJ > years ago end up as it is now? There is a slot in Hell reserved for many > ex-DEC 'executives.  >  > $ set mode / hard_work=again  G And please note that the 1000's are mere toys when compared to an Alpha J 2100, let alone a DEC 3000 series. A slot in Hell is too easy; unless theyH practice infinite maintenance on, say, Prime computers in that place :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:26:27 -06002 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> Subject: Re: alpha generation / Message-ID: <usgds4hkeaqa52@corp.supernews.com>   K I do stuff like that on my Epson Stylus PHOTO 785EPX, attached (sigh) to my J Windoze XP Pro box. I use card stock for matte finish, 4x6 photo paper forI glossy. I have downloaded a bunch of logos from various web sites, mostly E from the HP site. I use Paint Shop Pro to resize the image as needed.   7 Email me if you want to talk about this in more detail.    Regards, Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT net     < "T.R." <tr303@notmail.com.replace.n.with.h> wrote in message- news:JwFx9.34447$I6.3407450@zwoll1.home.nl... K > Right now I'm assembling an Alpha system based on the AXPPci 33 board. It J > will be housed in a generic clone AT minitower. To make it look a littleJ > better, I'd like to put an Alpha sticker on it. Is there a place where I can A > get 'Alpha generation' or other Digital/Alpha related stickers?  >  > :-)  > -- > T  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:55:21 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>  Subject: RE: alpha generation K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B98@rlghncst964.usps.gov>    Don't forget about this one:  2 www3.sympatico.ca/dkelk/fun/images/f_repentium.gif   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:32:38 +0100  From: munk@home.nlU Subject: Re: DECnet and MAC address translation:  (was: Re: Configuring OpenVM S-6.2) 8 Message-ID: <ikkgsu4pua3if82tlmmg9da96lfos3o7rb@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:03:59 -0500, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote:    > $ >If you're running DECnet *and* IP, B >another consideration is whether there are one or more NIC cards E >(with apologies to Mr Clews) installed and configured on the system.  > ? >If there is only one Ethernet card *and both DECnet and IP are  >running*, then  > 0 >1) DECnet *must* start before TCP/IP does, and K >2) during that process the MAC address that's in hardware gets translated  H >(insofar as it is viewed by other systems) whether using DECnet or IP, H >to reflect the DECnet area and node information in the last three bytes$ >of a MAC that starts with AA-00-04.  , The last 2 bytes actually, AA-00-04-00-xx-yy > E >For example, 08-00-2B-E5-51-9B gets translated to AA-00-04-00-C2-8B.   - more overwritten then translated I would say.  > E >Arne V. gave a good explanation of how this gets done in a post that > >can be located via Google groups search at the following URL: > M >http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=01I0RUS7I4KE8WWCDI%40kopc.hhs.dk&output  >=gplain > I >If you have multiple Ethernet cards and DECnet and TCP/IP go out through K >different cards, then naturally TCP/IP inquiries from other nodes will see  >the  8 >untranslated address of the card which TCP/IP is using.  D Please keep in mind that this AA-00-04-00 stuff is a Decnet Phase IVB convention. If you are running Phase V aka Decnet-Plus aka OSI akaF CLNS (pfew..), then you don't have to use this even if you are runningE with a Phase IV compatible address ( <= 63.1023 ) That is why I don't D like this AA-00-04-00 stuff. All ethernet cards running Decnet PhaseF IV (or in compatibility mode) will get the same physical address. ThatD can cause some very akward problems with bridges etc. So if there isF no absolute reason to use Phase IV (compatibility), just forget it and use Phase V.   >  >HTH >  >WWWebb  > H >> We have moved a box with OpenVMS version 6.2 to another location. ButG >> now we need to change the IP-address, Gateway address and the Subnet G >> mask address. I've never done and I'd like to know how this is done. ( >> Does anyone here know how to do this? >>I >> Then I'd like to know the mac-address of the ethernet card. How can we  >> find this under OpenVMS 6.2?  > @ >What IP package, UCX, TCPIP, Multinet, TCPware, something else? > C >Did you bring the documentation along with the box, that may help.  > A >HELP within (or supplied with) the IP package may help you along  > G >If your system is down at console >>> a SHOW DEV or SHOW CONFIG should E >identify the ethernet device and display the mac address. Techniques I >with the operating system booted depend on what protocols are present as ) >well as the architecture (VAX or Alpha).    ------------------------------   Date: 05 Nov 2002 21:19:00 GMT! From: swmoretp@aol.com (SWMORETP) / Subject: Digital Equipment Corp. - DEC for Sale 9 Message-ID: <20021105161900.04352.00003008@mb-mo.aol.com>   J We have these products for sale on eBay. Most are Buy It Now at the prices shown.J Just search by swmoretp@aol.com or e-mail us for a link to our eBay store.:   VAX/VMS Internals & Data Structures Digital  $19.99     ,   DECwrite 2.0 by Digital - NEW  $14.99     8   OpenVMS Utility Routine Manual by Digital  $12.99     *   TECO Pocket Guide by Digital  $9.99     7   VAX Software Source Book by Digital (DEC)  $8.99      /   Installation Manual by Digital (DEC)  $6.99   N If there is nothing of interest here check back. We are always adding more DEC stuff.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 14:45:19 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 3 Subject: Re: Digital Equipment Corp. - DEC for Sale 3 Message-ID: <nCbR$1S5HR2Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <20021105161900.04352.00003008@mb-mo.aol.com>, swmoretp@aol.com (SWMORETP) writes: L > We have these products for sale on eBay. Most are Buy It Now at the prices > shown.L > Just search by swmoretp@aol.com or e-mail us for a link to our eBay store.      my 2  < >   VAX/VMS Internals & Data Structures Digital  $19.99       0    worth something, depending on version covered  . >   DECwrite 2.0 by Digital - NEW  $14.99       /    free via hobbyist, or did you mean the book?   : >   OpenVMS Utility Routine Manual by Digital  $12.99       	    on web   , >   TECO Pocket Guide by Digital  $9.99       $    valueable (I know where mine is!)  9 >   VAX Software Source Book by Digital (DEC)  $8.99        
    useless  1 >   Installation Manual by Digital (DEC)  $6.99     *    comes with the software being installed   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:07:35 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> B Subject: Re: Digital Press discount..errata, spanking, resignation- Message-ID: <byVx9.25395$Lu1.39952@sccrnsc01>   J Shimmata! I have made a mistake! Turns out that the discount is in fact 30H percent. I was error. For this I apologize profusely and all that stuff.  I Granted, the discount last year was 35 percent, now its 30 percent and it ) is/was the same at Encompass, Compaq,etc.   B I used to be a consulting editor for Digital Press, but I resignedE immediately upon receiving my spanking from those folks. (Ouch! Ouch! E Owwwwwwww.....) I no longer am a consulting or acquisition editor for  Digital P_ress.   L PS--I buy all my books all through Ken Farmer's Amazon.com link or half.com.   Don't forget to vote!   
 Terry Shannon     < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message8 news:YcRx9.106372$wG.405997@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...F > Yeah, it used to be a 35 percent discount. Now its 20 percent. Yawn. > ; > "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote in message @ > news:OF23FE54EA.A715A488-ON07256C67.004E7F3C@mck.us.ray.com...
 > > Folks: > > J > > I've been asked to pass this along.  This is certainly the right group for  > > this information.  > > 	 > > dave.  > > L > > ----- Forwarded by David D Miller/RWS/Raytheon/US on 11/04/2002 07:17 AM	 > > -----  > >  > >  > > DISCOUNT OFFER EXTENDED K > > Looking for books on OpenVMS? Go to www.openvms.compaq.com and click on  > the G > > hotlink labeled "Digital Press Bookstore for HP Technologies". It's  > > designedG > > to cater to the needs of anyone who uses OpenVMS (or UNIX). There's  always > > a K > > discount available to anyone who accesses the DP website from this link  > > (theI > > tag line in your shopping cart will read, "You received a discount of 
 > > $XX.XX< > > because you qualify for our HP technologies discount."). > > J > > Right now, tho, we are running a year-end special of 30% off any title > > purchased. > > L > > We announced that the discount would be available Oct. 15, 2002-Jan. 15,	 > > 2003.  > > F > > Due to technical difficulties, we weren't able to go live with the
 > discountL > > until October 29. However, the offer has been extended by two weeks (now > > ends Jan. 31, 2003). > > I > > So if you tried the site last month, please visit again--it should be  > > working now. > > I > > If you encounter problems, or bought books between Oct. 15 and 29 for  the J > >  lower discount, please contact Pam Chester at p.chester@elsevier.com. > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:44:57 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: Don't Froget to Vote , Message-ID: <3DC811A8.648ABC12@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: J > PS-- Encompass voting is open for the next 13 days, too. $90 members canN > vote online. Coach class members (who are grandfathered in) must send fax or > email.  I Interesting. You'd think that the "coach class" members would be the ones L forced to vote on-line in order o reduce processing costs, and those who payL the big bucks would be given the more "luxury" options or voting "manually".  # > Four vacancies, three candidates.    Is Dale Coy on the ballot ?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:10:29 -0600* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>! Subject: Re: Don't Froget to Vote 9 Message-ID: <3dc833c6$0$17655$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>   J No.  Dale is not on the ballot.  From what I understand, not enough people "wrote in" when asked to.   K And btw, when first the web based voting was announced yesterday, it didn't 8 work,  Someone forgot https.  Its there now and working. -- Dave...   G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less  trouble. -----Mark Twain   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DC811A8.648ABC12@videotron.ca... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: L > > PS-- Encompass voting is open for the next 13 days, too. $90 members canI > > vote online. Coach class members (who are grandfathered in) must send  fax or
 > > email. > K > Interesting. You'd think that the "coach class" members would be the ones J > forced to vote on-line in order o reduce processing costs, and those who pay B > the big bucks would be given the more "luxury" options or voting "manually".  > % > > Four vacancies, three candidates.  >  > Is Dale Coy on the ballot ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:35:04 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: Don't Froget to Vote , Message-ID: <3DC84788.F2B71C7D@videotron.ca>   Dave Gudewicz wrote: > L > No.  Dale is not on the ballot.  From what I understand, not enough people > "wrote in" when asked to.   K Cosidering that they have 4 vacancies and 3 candidates, turning away Mr Coy  seems very bizarre.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 20:42:32 -0800 * From: dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett)/ Subject: Re: FC-AL support on VMS, coming soon? = Message-ID: <789f26d2.0211052042.68b46ed7@posting.google.com>   o "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message news:<Dzou9.1967$Zx.295649@news1.news.adelphia.net>...    > Taking the weekend off? :-)   B   Took me a while to get all the parts together, but I finally got there today.  K > Neither the SRM console or the driver will autonegotiate, so you need to  J > follow the instructions for the wwidmgr instructions to put the adapter  > into loop mode.       My test configuration is:  G      DS20E with latest(?) firmware ( firmware from the VMS 7.3-1 kit ).       VMS 7.3-1      KGPSA-B host adapter       Compaq 12 port fibre hub I      Dual controller RA8000 with firmware 8.3G ( I know it's ancient, but I that's what the controllers came with - you pays your money and you takes  your chances on Ebay ).   D    I put the adapter in loop mode and set the port mode on the HSG80
 to LOOP_SOFT.   A    I can see the disks from the console if I run wwidmgr, but VMS F doesn't see them. It does active the link ( I can see the orange lightD go off on the hub when VMS boots and "SHOW CONNECTIONS" on the HSG80< console shows the link to the DS20E as Online. I tried usingD wwidmgr -quickset to define some of them for the console ( so they'dD be visible there without running wwidmgr ). That worked, the consoleA show devices dga1: through dga4:, but VMS still doesn't see them.   F    Is there something I have to do to tell VMS about the disks? Is the& "latent" support a bit too latent yet?   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 21:52:49 -0000 = From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> D Subject: Re: Figuring out the Date of the 3rd Saturday of each Month5 Message-ID: <20021105215249.9106.qmail@gacracker.org>   > On Tue, 05 Nov 2002, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote: >norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >>  G >> We have that now, but "which couldn't be programmed :-(" sounds like  >>  ; >> a challenge you should have embraced, not spurned  ;-) .  > E >If you've managed to get logic in code line up with the innards of a 2 >Financial Director's head you deserve a medal :-) > < >I had a phrase based on my personal opinion, which for bothD >professionalism, and the fact ladies are present, I'll refrain from >repeating.   G One of my former coworkers came up with the "WALOB award" for the worst J piece of coding found that week in code-review. Guesses as to what "WALOB"2 may stand for are perhaps best ROT-13 encoded. :-)  K I wonder if your opinion of the aforementioned FD's ideas would be similar.      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:23:30 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>> Subject: FW: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It0 Message-ID: <01C284F8.99103FD0@sulfer.icius.com>  C Greg Cagle's got news server problems, so he asked me to post these G demographics for HP World readership. (Blame any formatting problems on ! me, I've messed around with it.):   + MIS Mgr/IS Mgr/IT Mgr/Tech Mgr:       23.4% # Network Integrator/Systems Analyst,     Systems Administrator, +    Systems Mgr:                       20.8% + President/Owner/CEO:                  15.2% + IT Director:                          13.2% + Marketing Mgr/ Sales Mgr/Sales/Staff:  6.9% + Vice President:                        5.6% + CIO/CTO:                               5.3% + Technical Consultant:                  4.6% + Software Developer/Programmer:         2.6% + Database/Data Center Mgr:              1.7% + CFO/COO:                               0.7%   H I like that distribution. The top four are people I'd have wanted to see the article. Thanks, Greg.   Shane        Shane Smith wrote:F > I'd actually be as interested in the demographics as the numbers, if5 > they're available. Techies? Managers? Sheepfarmers?  >  > Shane  >  > -----Original Message-----/ > From: Greg Cagle [mailto:gregc@gregcagle.com] ) > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:46 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com @ > Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It >  > F > As Keith noted, HP World News is an Interex publication. It goes outE > to Interex members as well as other subscribers outside the Interex G > membership. It's a "controlled circulation" perodical like InfoWorld. ; > I can find out the exact numbers if anyone is interested.  >  > - Greg >  > Shane Smith wrote: > G >>My initial reaction to this could have been mistaken for Jay's rap at J >>the beginning of "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back". Then I noticed the HPI >>in "HP World News" and I calmed down a little. I thought for a moment a H >>pro-VMS article had actually made it into the press. Surprisingly good7 >>article though, except the "Unix based OpenVMS" line.  >>5 >>Anybody know what the distribution's like for this?  >> >>Shane  >  >    --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:04:32 GMT ( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>- Subject: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS? > Message-ID: <4DUx9.73433$dn3.2668148@twister.southeast.rr.com>  H Although it's good to see Tru64 get some well deserved credit...where is OpenVMS?    0 InternetWeek: Mac OS, SCO, Tru64 Are Safest OSes0 http://www.internetwk.com/story/INW20021101S0002   mi2g did report  http://www.mi2g.com/   Here is the report url (pdf)= http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/reports/int_briefings/061102.pdf   B Lets flood them with email asking why they didn't include OpenVMS.   solutions@mi2g.com  : I couldn't find any other email addresses on mi2g website.     Ken    --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.org    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:47:30 -0500- From: "kenrbnsn1@rcn.com" <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com> 1 Subject: RE: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS? 8 Message-ID: <410-220021125204730211@M2W072.mail2web.com>  K >Although it's good to see Tru64 get some well deserved credit=2E=2E=2Ewhe=  re is 	 >OpenVMS?  >  > 1 >InternetWeek: Mac OS, SCO, Tru64 Are Safest OSes 5 >http://www=2Einternetwk=2Ecom/story/INW20021101S0002  >  >mi2g did report >http://www=2Emi2g=2Ecom/  >  >Here is the report url (pdf) D >http://www=2Emi2g=2Ecom/cgi/mi2g/reports/int_briefings/061102=2Epdf  K I saw the report last week and sent a complaint=2E I got this response tod=  ay:   H "We have produced some documents addressing some of the more frequent ofK the quesions we have been asked post our news release=2E"  The attached PD=  F * file, still did not address OpenVMS=2E :-(   Ken Robinson  D --------------------------------------------------------------------+ mail2web - Check your email from the web at  http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:01:46 -0600* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>1 Subject: Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS? 9 Message-ID: <3dc831bc$0$17653$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>   . I just sent my e-mail to solutions re: OpenVMS   -- Dave...   G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less  trouble. -----Mark Twain   3 "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote in message 8 news:4DUx9.73433$dn3.2668148@twister.southeast.rr.com...J > Although it's good to see Tru64 get some well deserved credit...where is
 > OpenVMS? >  > 2 > InternetWeek: Mac OS, SCO, Tru64 Are Safest OSes2 > http://www.internetwk.com/story/INW20021101S0002 >  > mi2g did report  > http://www.mi2g.com/ >  > Here is the report url (pdf)? > http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/reports/int_briefings/061102.pdf  > D > Lets flood them with email asking why they didn't include OpenVMS. >  > solutions@mi2g.com > < > I couldn't find any other email addresses on mi2g website. >  >  > Ken  >  > -- >  > Kenneth Farmer > http://www.Tru64.org > http://www.OpenVMS.org > http://www.LinuxHPC.org  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:59:22 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 1 Subject: Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS? I Message-ID: <_aXx9.200013$%h2.86904@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   3 "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote in message 8 news:4DUx9.73433$dn3.2668148@twister.southeast.rr.com...J > Although it's good to see Tru64 get some well deserved credit...where is
 > OpenVMS? >  > 2 > InternetWeek: Mac OS, SCO, Tru64 Are Safest OSes2 > http://www.internetwk.com/story/INW20021101S0002 >  > mi2g did report  > http://www.mi2g.com/ >  > Here is the report url (pdf)? > http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/reports/int_briefings/061102.pdf     J Since Tru64 is simply the organ donor to PH-UX for clustering and not muchI else, I guess we can expect that HP's combined unix offering will be more  prone to attacks.     L As previously suggested, HP would be far better off to simply take the HP-UXG brand name and stick it on top of Tru64 v6.0, and pay ISV's to port the L PH-UX apps that don't already have Tru64 versions. They could easily develop/ a porting guide from PH-UX to Tru64 technology.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:30:45 GMT # From: "Scratch" <nospam@nospam.org> 1 Subject: Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS? > Message-ID: <pEXx9.73986$dn3.2691536@twister.southeast.rr.com>  F I'm all for that.  Let's see, better clustering (I know, not as good aG OpenVMS), better security (I know, not as good as OpenVMS), better file @ system, better performance, better platform, just to name a few.  K I guess ISV support outranks better technology, as we all knew anyway.  But J wait, all the ISV's are going to have to port their products anyway so whyE not port to something far superior.  Well, OpenView is kinda cool and  already integrated in HP-UX.  = Both still beat AIX and Solaris in my book hands down anyway.   . I'm gonna stop there and go vomit.  :0-->splat   --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.org         . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:_aXx9.200013$%h2.86904@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > 5 > "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote in message : > news:4DUx9.73433$dn3.2668148@twister.southeast.rr.com...L > > Although it's good to see Tru64 get some well deserved credit...where is > > OpenVMS? > >  > > 4 > > InternetWeek: Mac OS, SCO, Tru64 Are Safest OSes4 > > http://www.internetwk.com/story/INW20021101S0002 > >  > > mi2g did report  > > http://www.mi2g.com/ > >   > > Here is the report url (pdf)A > > http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/reports/int_briefings/061102.pdf  >  > L > Since Tru64 is simply the organ donor to PH-UX for clustering and not muchK > else, I guess we can expect that HP's combined unix offering will be more  > prone to attacks.  >  > H > As previously suggested, HP would be far better off to simply take the HP-UX I > brand name and stick it on top of Tru64 v6.0, and pay ISV's to port the F > PH-UX apps that don't already have Tru64 versions. They could easily develop 1 > a porting guide from PH-UX to Tru64 technology.  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 23:19:39 GMT ( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>1 Subject: Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS? > Message-ID: <fmYx9.73994$dn3.2702319@twister.southeast.rr.com>  L Dag gone it!  That teenager son of mine changed my newsgroup id again!  He'sJ been bugging me about a new PC for Christmas.  If he keeps this up I thinkL he's gonna get one.  Thats probably been his plan all along.  Make it such a9 pain to share my PC that he forces me to buy him one.  :)    Ken    --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.org         . "Scratch" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote in message8 news:pEXx9.73986$dn3.2691536@twister.southeast.rr.com...H > I'm all for that.  Let's see, better clustering (I know, not as good aI > OpenVMS), better security (I know, not as good as OpenVMS), better file B > system, better performance, better platform, just to name a few. > H > I guess ISV support outranks better technology, as we all knew anyway. But L > wait, all the ISV's are going to have to port their products anyway so whyG > not port to something far superior.  Well, OpenView is kinda cool and  > already integrated in HP-UX. > ? > Both still beat AIX and Solaris in my book hands down anyway.  > 0 > I'm gonna stop there and go vomit.  :0-->splat >  > -- >  > Kenneth Farmer > http://www.Tru64.org > http://www.OpenVMS.org > http://www.LinuxHPC.org  >  >  >  > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > news:_aXx9.200013$%h2.86904@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > > 7 > > "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote in message < > > news:4DUx9.73433$dn3.2668148@twister.southeast.rr.com...K > > > Although it's good to see Tru64 get some well deserved credit...where  is > > > OpenVMS? > > >  > > > 6 > > > InternetWeek: Mac OS, SCO, Tru64 Are Safest OSes6 > > > http://www.internetwk.com/story/INW20021101S0002 > > >  > > > mi2g did report  > > > http://www.mi2g.com/ > > > " > > > Here is the report url (pdf)C > > > http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/reports/int_briefings/061102.pdf  > >  > > I > > Since Tru64 is simply the organ donor to PH-UX for clustering and not  muchH > > else, I guess we can expect that HP's combined unix offering will be more > > prone to attacks.  > >  > > J > > As previously suggested, HP would be far better off to simply take the > HP-UX K > > brand name and stick it on top of Tru64 v6.0, and pay ISV's to port the H > > PH-UX apps that don't already have Tru64 versions. They could easily	 > develop 3 > > a porting guide from PH-UX to Tru64 technology.  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:15:01 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: HP Service , Message-ID: <3DC818B2.B9452AFD@videotron.ca>   John Eisenschmidt wrote:D > Of course, maybe the larger customers get that? Who knows. Anyway, > today's lesson:   M I had the exact same behavour when I worked at a bank. I saw how IBM provided N excellent service, and for as much as I hated their brainwashing tactics (backA in early 1990s), I did admire their presence and quick response.    L One night, they were trying to get some OS-2 thing going (they spent so muchH time trying to get an OS-2 machine to answer a modem , ask for user-nameM password, and then provide file download capabilities, I could have done that M so fast on a VMS box, but that is another issue). Anyhow, the IBM rep came by J at about 20:00, knowing the bank employees would be working late, and theyI commented that they might need more memory. The guy was back half an hour J later with additional memory for the PC. He said not to worry, they'd deal with the paper work later.  N Meanwhile, I couldn't even get DEC to send in the EDI expert to make a seriousB sales pitch to the bank. (who were about to start an EDI project).  J On the other hand, the operators in the machine room were always impressedK when DEC had to come in for maintenance. (especially when DEC sent the lady  with the short skirt).  J Digital's argument is that we were a small customer for Digital and didn'tM warrant all that attention. Well, with that type of "lack of attention", they 3 ensure that the bank would remain a small customer.   K It is especially frustrating to experience this when you know that in other N cities, Digital took as good a care of their customers as IBM took care of the? bank here. So I knew that DIgital was capable of great service.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 21:47:45 -0000 = From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> > Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It5 Message-ID: <20021105214745.8980.qmail@gacracker.org>    %NNTP-W-TOPPOST, corrected  < On 5 Nov 2002, mike@akita-security.co.uk (Mike Riley) wrote:  = >keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message : >news:<cf15391e.0211041359.7f0a052d@posting.google.com>...A >> HP World News, published by Interex, included a pointer to the E >> following article in the Oct. 31 issue of their e-mail newsletter.  >>  : >> You can find this article on the Interex.org website atI >> http://www.interex.org/hpworldnews/hpw211/news9.jsp (while one must be I >> a member of Interex to read it, there is a level of membership that is ; >> free -- see http://www.interex.org/member/benefit.html).  >> ---! >> You Can't Crack It or Crash It $ >> OpenVMS Inspires Loyal Following  >>   >>  by Susan B. Shor    A >Can't you?  I was under the impression we posted a simple way toeC >do just this only around a month ago...  Funny how short memories   >people have :)u  J I rather wondered at seeing this after my recent experience with Jean-LoupE Gailly mailing me from one of my own accounts. I concluded, like most J marketing things, that they were being selective and referring to exploits in the base operating system.r  B Even though, VMS does appear to have a good record. I suspect thatH incidents such as the WANK worm prompted modifications to guidelines forD developers to minimise the risk of similar future events (I would beI *really* interested to know if there are any such guidelines). M$ show noeE signs of having learned from their very public security failures, andoF whilst open source development may have many pairs of eyes looking forF exploits, I suspect that in many cases the same engineered approach is$ lacking in the original development.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neti   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 14:23:48 -0600t- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)4> Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It3 Message-ID: <AzmV6MrzkxJH@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  u In article <20021105214745.8980.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:i >  > M$ show noG > signs of having learned from their very public security failures, and H > whilst open source development may have many pairs of eyes looking forH > exploits, I suspect that in many cases the same engineered approach is& > lacking in the original development.  D    M$ has admitted they don't have an approach.  They just all write    they way they want to.H   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:27:09 -0500E- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h> Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It, Message-ID: <3DC837A1.BD6802E8@videotron.ca>   Dan Allen wrote: >  > c >         Note: I'm certainly a part of the installed base but have contributed $0.00 in revenue to L >                 VMS over the past 3 years. Still running but not paying...  M Same here. But I have a spare  Microvax II that is used for parts. But I have N legal license for it. So Digital/Compaq/HP may still consider it as "installed1 base" even though it is just used as spare parts.s  3 So that would bring the number down to 410,999  :-)?   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 22:00:58 GMTm& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 CDi- Message-ID: <aq9f2q$k6q@web.eng.baileynm.com>S  4 In article <aq8j9j$7of71$1@id-46415.news.dfncis.de>,+ James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote:pH > How does anyone expect VMS usage to increase if the information is not > widely available?M  < You seem to be assuming that HP wants VMS usage to increase.   -- eO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofseO of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All-L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:29:10 -0600b1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>$ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 CD ' Message-ID: <3DC88C86.41D6EF71@fsi.net>w   John Smith wrote:  > 9 > "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in messagef0 > news:aq8j9j$7of71$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de... > >uJ > > So let me get this straight.  Some (many?) of these presentations were > made > > byM > > HP employees, right?  And these are presentations regarding functions and  > > featuresJ > > of HP products, like VMS, right?  And these features were put into the > > productsF > > to entice people to buy them (why else?).  And the company, HP, is > > supposedly< > > interested in getting more people to use their products. > >aI > > And yet the distribution of the HP presentations is limited? (I won'th > argue 	 > > about K > > the others).  This is exactly the wrong thing, like some kind of secreta > > society.J > > How does anyone expect VMS usage to increase if the information is not > > widely available?5 > L > I could be caustically cynical in agreeing with you on this, however let's= > look at a possible HP/Encompass point of view for a moment.  > G > The conference, like all other conferences was held to enable certainmM > messages to be delivered, techniques to be discussed, and as an opportunity M > for face-to-face discussions. The conference cost each participant money tom# > defray the expense of holding it.  > L > Like other conferences held previously by other vendors and organizations,M > I'm sure that there were the usual trinkets (I wasn't there) such as canvas0   Plastic, actually...  K > literature bags with logos, pens with logos, 'nerf' footballs with logos,hJ > peppermint candies wrapped within logo-encrusted foil, and all the otherG > customary business-decision making necessities (also logo encrusted).   F Um, well, no - not really. An M$ .NET propaganda CD-ROM - that's 'boutA all I received at registration. There may have been other "stuff"e2 available, but I didn't stay around to collect it.   > [snip]   --   David J. Dachtera2 dba DJE Systems0 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/A   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:21:33 -0500:- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i( Subject: Re: Icons on Eisner...continued, Message-ID: <3DC81A3A.B76E6E72@videotron.ca>   Mike Rechtman wrote: > 6 > Well, my browser at home now sees icons from Eisner.& > Thanks to whoever made the changes!! >  > examples: F > http://eisner.encompasserve.org/vms/vmsfaq.html (only the first page > thus far.) > orE > http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/ (icon here a trifle morei
 > ambitious.)l  L What are the icons supposed to do ? on your personal home page, there are no images at all. e Netscape 4.7 mac.e   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 14:53:00 GMT 7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) ( Subject: Re: Icons on Eisner...continued! Message-ID: <HsaHpJ1baIK$@rabbit>c  O I just figured out the the "icons" (such as they are) appear in the URL window,o  just in front of the URL itself.  J I, too, am having a little trouble understanding their "purpose"; it looks purely cosmetic to me.  e\ In article <3DC81A3A.B76E6E72@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Mike Rechtman wrote: >> s7 >> Well, my browser at home now sees icons from Eisner.0' >> Thanks to whoever made the changes!!- >>   >> examples:G >> http://eisner.encompasserve.org/vms/vmsfaq.html (only the first page 
 >> thus far.)g >> oroF >> http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/ (icon here a trifle more >> ambitious.) > N > What are the icons supposed to do ? on your personal home page, there are no > images at all. k > Netscape 4.7 mac.  --   Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"s "Lose the MAPS"t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:17:05 +0100  From: munk@home.nl9 Subject: Re: installing the Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Javal8 Message-ID: <hfjgsu4u1j12ul2tba750qbmmf89lqvmbt@4ax.com>  	 Hi Nazim,y  ? You have a couple of problems running the Java Acrobat Viewer. h  D First here were some major changes in the Java package after V 1.1.8F that prevent running the Viewer as described. Apparently you need someF Java stuff that is available in a Mac (!) version of Java, and then it  could run with a higher version.  E Secondly your systems are not very well equiped with memory. And like * all new software, Java loooooves memory !!  < And thirdly your systems are not very fast either. Even withF sufficient memory the whole thing would be terribly slow. And with theD lack of memory you have, it would be even more disappointing even ifE you would get it running. Java is already very slow from itself, evenm on my PWS500au with 1 GB.c  D So do yourself a favour and try Xpdf. That will run quite well is my@ experience. I don't think Compaq should mention the Java AcrobatD Viewer anymore, because it is outdated and is not maintained anymore
 by Adobe.    Regards,   Dirk  ? On 5 Nov 2002 03:56:32 -0800, nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote:>  j >peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<jjWv9.41080$aa2.475849@news.chello.at>...X >> In article <CFN375594785171181@news.felk.cvut.cz>, Jiri Kulhan <lars@post.cz> writes:L >> >I've got Viewer running with 1.1.8-5 with no problem. Just followed the D >> >install guide on openvms.compaq.com. But yes, it's slow as hell. >> uI >> Yes, so did I. But for newer JAVA one needs the Apple supplied stub...- >a9 >I want toget up the acrobat viewer running under openvmsr >u >t >HW: >h >Alpha station 250 4/266 >RAM 128 MBt >o >Alpha station 600 5/266 >RAM 192 MBa >t >. >SW: >M >Open VMS Alpha 7.2-1c >VMS0721-update-v0300 patch kitw >ACRTL v4.0  patch kit >JAVA SDK 1.2.2-3p >ME >I followed exactly the instructions on the E-business CD from compaqy >when i do 9 >$java "install"  >java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: >$ > < >in the cd it is said that JAVA 1.1.8 or higher is required. >i >Dirk munk wrote:s >eH >Don't try to use it. It will not work with any Java version newer then , >1.1.8 (even if Adobe claims that it will).  >  >so my question: >sB >Why does it not function with java 1.2.2-3 or any version newer ?. >what is the maximum version that support it ? >a >can anyone help ? >thanks0 >1
 >Nazim Manser0   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 22:11:48 GMTh& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>@ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek* Message-ID: <aq9fn4$ca4$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: > > I did notice that one, but the other two flags (which may be@ > SPIKE-specific - my knowledge in that area is minimal) weren't@ > present.  Of course, the fact that Alpha uses 3 feedback flags; > rather than Itanic's one (IIRC) would penalize it for its A > additionally fine-grained compiler control (guess compiler flagl7 > definitions should start being optimized for SPEC :).   E I suspect that SPEC baseline definitions are among the factors in theaC definition of many copiler options across the range of compilers ina) the set of those used on SPEC submittals.a  C To pick another nit, the single feedback flag used for the Itanium2nD submittals was a function of the HP-UX compiler and not the hardwareD platform. That is to say it is the same interface used for PBO (whatE HP has called feedback directed compilation) on PA-RISC systems goingeF back however many years it has been around and legal to use in SPECcpu benchmarks.e  D >> > But as for other benchmarks: SPECweb99_SSL is nowhere nearly as& >> > popular a benchmark as SPECweb99, >>? >> It would be good to define how you are measuring popularity.e  F > By the number and range of submissions, thus allowing comparisons toD > be made against a considerably wider spectrum of competition (and,? > in the process, providing more information from which to drawm? > inferences about possible correlations between implementationn > features and performance).  C The range of CPU families covered by SPECweb99_SSL would seem to bew  	 Intel x86s Alphae SPARC  POWERt PA-RISCb Itanium2  G The range of CPU families covered by SPECweb99 submittals appears to ber  	 Intel x86w AMD x86e Alpha  SPARCO POWERE PA-RISC8  < (I may have left one or two out - the lists are from memory)  = Given that SPECweb99 was not obsoleted when SPECweb99_SSL wasoF announced (as SPECweb96 appears to have done), thus giving overlap andD forcing submittors to make zero-sum resource choices, and given thatC the number of SPECweb99* results published in the first 7 months of F each benchmark's life is roughly the same, and the non-trivial overlap@ in processor families, it would seem that the two benchmarks are4 indeed of the same order of magnitude of popularity.  E Of course there are more _overall_ SPECweb99 submittals - it did havet a two year headstart :)   4 >> Is PA-RISC in the form of the PA-8700 used in the; >> SPECweb99_SSL results a chip with a large on-chip cache?   ; > With 1.5 MB of data cache plus another 768 KB of I-cache?t0 > Definitely, at least by comparison with Alpha.  F >> If so would then the POWER4 chip used in the IBM p630 SPECweb99_SSL@ >> results with its 1440KB on-chip cache also be a large on-chip	 >> cache?    > Yup.  = So there have been some comparisons of Itanium2 SPECweb99_SSL C performance against that of other CPUs with "large" on-chip caches.d; That is what I wanted to drive at when asking about caches.   
 rick jones -- l= denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth... C                                      where do you want to be today?aF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...-   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 15:23:01 -0800i7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)e@ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek= Message-ID: <8a646952.0211051523.603210ef@posting.google.com>e  Z "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:<3DC2EA1A.5060305@MMaz.com>... > Daryl Jones wrote: > w > >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<UYgv9.86381$mxk1.78654@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...e > >  s > >o: > >>"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message% > >>news:3DBD8644.5070705@MMaz.com.... > >>     > >>M > >>>If Intel were to release an 64-bit X86, they would undermine their IA-64-L > >>>efforts!  This could create serious problems for us VMS folks expectingL > >>>to run on IA-64 because what was the Compaq rational for killing Alpha?< > >>> Not enough volume to support the design and fab costs. > >>> G > >>>So, if Intel does introduce a 64-bit X64 for the desktop, you know M > >>>manufacturers will introduce servers based on that chip set, essentiallyo. > >>>killing high volume demand for the IA-64. > >>> K > >>>Am I the only one that sees the irony of this?  A major porting effortsI > >>>of VMS to another 'low volume and essentially proprietary' chip set?tK > >>> Worse yet, a chip set that HP/Compaq doesn't directly control and may 9 > >>>not even be as fast as the Alpha that was abandoned?  > >>>        > >>>0A > >>No Barry, you aren't the only one who sees the irony of this.t > >>O > >>However all that do see the irony don't occupy executive level positions ath > >>HP.e > >>     > >> > >e
 > >Gentlemen:  > >oH > >Before the HP-COMPAQ merger, both HP and Compaq annouced that I64 wasF > >to be their chip of the future. Compaq gave the Alpha technology toH > >Intel. The Merced/Itanium chip performance would be camparable to theE > >EV7. What made the Alpha performance was not only the chip but the0D > >compilier technology. Intel in this area was ten years behing theI > >Alpha. By 2004, HP will have only one architecture to work with rathereF > >than two and it is out of the hardware business to boot. I wouldn'tG > >worry about VMS. There are about 25 programmers in NH working on theaG > >conversion from Alpha to Intel. The jobs were posted in DICE severaly > >months ago. > >  - > >- > Daryl, > J > you spent time with a nice history lesson but you neglected to focus on J > the crux of my point - Alpha was abandoned because it was too expensive G > to push to EV7 and beyond due to low chip volume.  There is no doubt qI > that VMS is porting to IA-64, that was never the point of the comment. .K >  The real question is that if AMD, and everyone one else, kick's Intel's eF > butt hard enough with their X86 64-bit chipsets and forces Intel to H > produce their own, the IA-64 running VMS will be left flapping in the H > breeze by itself once again, an OS dependent on a low volume yet very  > expensive chipset... >  > Barry      Barry,  B I believe the chip that will not be produce is the EV8 chip due toD being too expensive and low chip volume. The EV7 chip is schedule toD be released. Furhtermore, I think the other player not considered isF Microsoft and its future OS and software not being downward compatibleE to the x86 architecture. This would imply x86 64-bit chipset will not C be a player. This could mean Microsoft is planning to use the IA-64e? chip rather than x86 64-bit chip. Thus making IA-64 VMS viable,h> however, VMS must be marketed more than it is or none of these) discussion will have a lot meaning to it.T   Daryl JonesG   Daryl Jonesw   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 15:33:35 -0800o7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)b@ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek= Message-ID: <8a646952.0211051533.7aa80dfd@posting.google.com>   \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C281A6.6053E3E0@sulfer.icius.com>...I > So far we've seen two versions of Itanium not so much in the wild as in2I > wildlife parks. Both apparently lag behind contemporary chips in enough I > areas that they're pretty much laughing stocks. OK, yes, there are somegG > things it's good at but that's not enough. It has to have enough of aNJ > performance /advantage/ over its competitors in enough areas that peopleH > sit up and take notice. It's got to knock people's socks off. RememberF > when they were trying to sell the Alpha? It was significantly fasterB > than IA32, but that wasn't enough to overcome the lack of native > software.n > G > VMS is already hard enough to sell. If it's perceived as slow too, it H > won't matter if HP decide to start marketing it. It won't be sellable. >  > Shanel   Shane,  B The speed of VMS when bench against UNIX does indicate that VMS isD slower. The problem is a comparison in speed between a frigate and aE battleship. This is not what I would call a fair comparison. VMS V3.0nC is a lot faster than V4.0 and up. Should we all return VMS 3.0? No!aB Unix operating system has become the standard because it was cheapD ($300) and you could build your own system and software enhancements8 from its base. This is what Oracle and others have done.  F This is why marketing is so important!!! To show its real performance.   Daryl Jonesu   >  > -----Original Message-----D > From: young_r@encompasserve.org [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]* > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 11:50 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComsB > Subject: RE: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek >  > > > In article <01C281A0.CD15E5B0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith > <ssmith@icius.com> writes:D > > How many people are working on the conversion is nowhere near asL > > important as whether the final product will be worth using. If Itanium'sL > > performance doesn't improve drastically the move will make VMS unviable. > >  > A > 	Recent articles talk about Madison (Itanium 3) being a 30-50%  H > 	performance improvement over Itanium 2.  If we chose 40% as a guess, 2 > 	that would put Madison at or near these values: >  > 	1300 SpecInt2000  > 	1800 Specfp2000$ > 	115000 tpmC for a 4 processor box > @ > 	Maybe it doesn't show up until mid-2003, but I'm sure we will@ > 	hear a lot more about it.  It should be at or near the top ofB > 	performance when it ships.  I suspect it will trail in SpecInt E > 	performance to a 4 GHz Pentium 4 (Prescott) as a 2.8 GHz Pentium 4  > 	does 1010 today:O > J > http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu2000/results/res2002q3/cpu2000-20020909- > 01639.html > I >         (40% speed up should mean more than a 30% speed up in integer).s > 	  > 	By the way, when you say: > J > "If Itanium's performance doesn't improve drastically the move will make > VMS  > unviable." > E > 	Just what metric do you have in mind?  Of those metrics, is Power4oH > 	or UltraSparc 3 any better at any of Itanium2's ?  If so, which ones?C > 	I overlooked them if they are out there and directly comparable.  > 
 > 					Rob   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 14:33:30 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a- Subject: Re: Microsoft strikes (itself) again"3 Message-ID: <Z$6aTWTpInHg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <GQRx9.14$Vc2.27209@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> writes:xM > Thre a a lot of sites that PCMagazine discovered that Netscape 6.x wouldn'tsL > render.  The problem in this case is Netscape, since they didn't bother to > test their browser.-  F    I doubt it.  MS almost certainly didn't test their page against any    browser but Explorer.    H    It's well known that MS utilities and Explorer agree on invalid HTLM     constructs.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:07:47 GMTh= From: "Colin Butcher" <colinDOT.butcherAT@xdeltaDOT.coDOT.uk>s' Subject: Re: Monitoring NIC utilizationN; Message-ID: <7GUx9.635$8N2.8980612@news-text.cableinet.net>e  A LANCP SHOW DEV EWA0 [or whatever you have] /COUNTERS works nicelyb [repeat as desired]   K NCL SHO CSMA STAT CSMACD-0 [or whatever other name you have] ALL COUNT alson" works nicely (if you have Phase V) [repeat as desired]n   NCLeG NCL>SNAP CSMA STAT CSMACD-0 [or whatever other name you have] ALL COUNTw; wait for as long as you want to, then (without exiting NCL)-G NCL>SHOW CSMA STAT CSMACD-0 [or whatever other name you have] ALL COUNTc' works even better (if you have Phase V)r  G This should show you the counters for all protocols running across that0K CSMA-CD Station, not just the DECnet related counters. The SNAP followed byrJ the SHOW sets up the means for NCL to give you the difference, so a simpleG wait of 30 seconds (use a watch!) gives you a pretty good indication of0 what's going on.  K Darned useful for things like T1/E1, Kilostream, Frame Relay etc. where you:F need to argue with a Telco from a position of knowledge about how muchB bandwidth you're actually getting out of you DECnis or whatever...  E They're all useful techniques and they all help in finding out what'sf actually going on. -- Hope this helps. Cheers, Colin. ' (colinDOT.butcherAT@xdeltaDOT.coDOT.uk)     5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message-# news:3DC7915C.D0785155@127.0.0.1...- > Lyndon Bartels wrote:- >aJ > > Today, I got asked "Is there a slowdown?" And I couldn't answer. I canD > > see the number of packets going across the interface (TCPIP SHOW > > INTERFACE) > > K > > But can I monitor, in real-time, or at least really close to real time,s > > the load on a given NIC? > >n > > If so, how?  > ' > SDA, cos that's the type of guy I am.e >S > $ ANAL/SYS > SDA> SHOW LAN/COUt >hB > (Check each protocol, read off the numbers, repeat until fed up) >rJ > Of course it does mean it is possible to write a program to extract this; > information perhaps some kind soul will tell us where the'H > offsets/locations are documented, probably in an already available STB > in the system library. >SG > The SDA display does show some interesting statistics relating to the0F > network, e.g. excessive collisions, disconnections. I've quite often, > used the output to beat up notwork people. >g > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn > nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:33:24 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>' Subject: Re: Monitoring NIC utilization 5 Message-ID: <aq99v4$7ltb6$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>/  < "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> schreef in bericht% news:3DC7592A.3F76AB3@videotron.ca...r > Lyndon Bartels wrote:oK > > But can I monitor, in real-time, or at least really close to real time,X > > the load on a given NIC? >iC > Look in the freeware or decus archives for ethermon.  Gives you ai	 "monitor" B > style output, as well as ability to trace the etherenet traffic. >'E > And at one point, one could patch MONITOR.EXE to enable the MONITOR? ETHERNET$ > class. But I think it is gone now.  L The last version of MONITOR that could do that was part of VMS V4.7. Now why was that option never released? J The DEBNA mat be used to monitor ethernet as well. Connect to the on-boardF processor (a MVAX II?) via NCP and one could look at packet rates etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:05:21 -0500b- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c' Subject: Re: Monitoring NIC utilizationl, Message-ID: <3DC83287.4950C17F@videotron.ca>   Hans Vlems wrote:iN > The last version of MONITOR that could do that was part of VMS V4.7. Now why! > was that option never released?a  M I seem to recall a patch that could be applied to later versions to magically- enable MONITOR ETHERNET.  L Note that the executable in VMS 7.2 (vax) still has "ETHERNET" in it, listed next to other classes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:40:51 +0100o From: munk@home.nl. Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS8 Message-ID: <2blgsu8qauol52df3b112up8p06m9smau5@4ax.com>   Yes and No.t  E There is support for a scrolling USB mouse in VMS 7.3-1. However this.@ only works (in DecWindows) in conjunction with USB keyboard (the, LK463), and that will go on sale in January.  @ And of course you will need a USB card. Depending on the type of8 workstation you have, that can bring some more problems.  9 So if you can tell us some more about your workstation ??   D Furthermore the USB stuf on VMS  is very much in development, so you) will get many changes in the near future.4  E Oh yes, and get a Logitech mouse. It has a third button function whent you press the wheel.    C On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:44:01 +0900, "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net>e wrote:  J >Does anyone knows  if there are any mouse (like PC that has a scroller inH >the middle) that can be plug into the Alpha workstation running OpenVMSM >7.2-1.  It would be ideal if I can find a mouse that works just like the one 
 >use on a PC.aM >Any advices would be greatly appreciated or guide me in the right direction.0 >Thank you in advance. >r >r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:13:08 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>. Subject: RE: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <01C284E6.3FD36BC0@sulfer.icius.com>  H What layout is the LK463? If it's a VT style layout, I want one and someG PC drivers. In fact, I want several. I was starting to worry about whatHH I'd do when the PS2 ports went away on the PCs and I couldn't plug in my stash of LK450s.   Shane    -----Original Message-----( From: munk@home.nl [mailto:munk@home.nl]( Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 3:41 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS     Yes and No.a  E There is support for a scrolling USB mouse in VMS 7.3-1. However thisr@ only works (in DecWindows) in conjunction with USB keyboard (the, LK463), and that will go on sale in January.  @ And of course you will need a USB card. Depending on the type of8 workstation you have, that can bring some more problems.  9 So if you can tell us some more about your workstation ??a  D Furthermore the USB stuf on VMS  is very much in development, so you) will get many changes in the near future.   E Oh yes, and get a Logitech mouse. It has a third button function wheng you press the wheel.    C On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:44:01 +0900, "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net>7 wrote:  J >Does anyone knows  if there are any mouse (like PC that has a scroller inH >the middle) that can be plug into the Alpha workstation running OpenVMSM >7.2-1.  It would be ideal if I can find a mouse that works just like the oner
 >use on a PC. M >Any advices would be greatly appreciated or guide me in the right direction.y >Thank you in advance. >  >'   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:24:22 +0100 From: "test" <test@test.com> Subject: newtest3 Message-ID: <rVUx9.37443$I6.3770282@zwoll1.home.nl>s   test   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:45:15 +0100e From: munk@home.nl Subject: Re: newtest8 Message-ID: <kt7gsu4af1vetc0e2odq2a4e3dce42kvsf@4ax.com>  	 Also testt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:57:10 +0100t2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: OpenVMS & XDMCP; Message-ID: <3dc85ad6.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>s  * Georges A. Tomazi (gt@diapason.com) wrote:1 > peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote:e= > >> TCP/IP is up and running, as well as CDE on the console.M > >>J > >> Now, I'm trying to find out how can I use a  X remote display, such a+ > >> X11 server running on a PC with XDMCP.0 > >> > >> Any hints ? > >pF > > Enable XDM (item 21 in server menue) with SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG >) > I don't have that choice :  E Lacking XDM, you can still start the session manager remotely throughsE rexec. I have a helper DCL procedure on my website named X_TCP.COM to  do that.   cu,p   Martin -- oD                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deeE  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/o8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 01:18:58 +0100 ) From: Georges A. Tomazi <gt@diapason.com>y Subject: Re: OpenVMS & XDMCP8 Message-ID: <kungsucom05r4bg32gj2pkh204nbt8of6c@4ax.com>   Hi -  D On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:57:10 +0100, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote:   [...]9  F >Lacking XDM, you can still start the session manager remotely throughF >rexec. I have a helper DCL procedure on my website named X_TCP.COM to	 >do that.    Thx !v   Georgesw   --$ Georges A. Tomazi - gt@sunwizard.net   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 21:42:29 GMTi( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: OT, maybe??5 Message-ID: <aq9e05$7nmvh$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   B Not sure if this is considered OT or not, so I'll ask with a small) message before posting a larger one.  :-)a  J We are starting a search for a new faculty member.  While not specificallyI requiring VMS knowledge, such knowledge does not disqualify an applicant.bG Would it be appropriate to post it here as well as the other Newsgroups  I have in mind??   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:44:39 GMTr$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: OT, maybe??8 Message-ID: <00A16862.54DD7163@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <aq9e05$7nmvh$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:C >Not sure if this is considered OT or not, so I'll ask with a smalle* >message before posting a larger one.  :-) > K >We are starting a search for a new faculty member.  While not specificallyiJ >requiring VMS knowledge, such knowledge does not disqualify an applicant.H >Would it be appropriate to post it here as well as the other Newsgroups >I have in mind??g    M Hmmm.  It would probably be off-topic if the slot you were trying to fill was " for an English Lit faculty member.  ) If it's on the computer faculty, why not?    -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:10:36 -0600g7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com>2 Subject: Re: OT, maybe??G Message-ID: <craigberry-C54DD6.21103505112002@news.directvinternet.com>w  8 In article <00A16862.54DD7163@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,&  winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:  O > In article <aq9e05$7nmvh$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill s > Gunshannon) writes:s  M > >We are starting a search for a new faculty member.  While not specificallytL > >requiring VMS knowledge, such knowledge does not disqualify an applicant.J > >Would it be appropriate to post it here as well as the other Newsgroups > >I have in mind??e  O > Hmmm.  It would probably be off-topic if the slot you were trying to fill wasV$ > for an English Lit faculty member. > + > If it's on the computer faculty, why not?t  D And if it requires extensive experience teaching English Lit at the H university level as well as extensive VMS programming experience, write  to me off list :-).t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:22:54 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 3 Subject: Should have been included in the last postrI Message-ID: <20Ux9.182477$Q3S.24430@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e  0 <mailto:[mailto:news@daily.informationweek.com]>) Sent: Friday, September 18, 1998 12:21 AMc     TOP STORIESn$ ___Tandem Servers To Run On Alpha___I Compaq, bringing its two biggest acquisitions together, says it will moveeF its fault-tolerant Tandem NonStop Himalaya servers from the aging Mips" processor to Digital's Alpha chip.  I The company says the move was intended to provide Tandem customers-mostlyxI large financial and telecom institutions such as Nasdaq, the London StocknI Exchange, Visa, Motorola, and Lucent-assurance for the product's path forbE the next five to 10 years. "We had not been comfortable that we could L articulate a plan for the next decade with the Mips processor," says Pauline< Nist, VP of products and technology for the Tandem division.  I Part of the reason for the decision to move Himalaya servers to Alpha waseF Compaq's uncertainty about the future of the Mips chip's manufacturer,I Silicon Graphics Inc., which is adding Intel processors to its server and- workstation product mix.  F The move endorses the 64-bit Alpha chip as one of Compaq's fundamentalE technologies for high-end computing, especially as customers wait foroK Intel's 64-bit Merced chip. Compaq "will continue to sell Alpha to its mostrG business-critical customers," Nist says, although she concedes that thet@ high-end Himalaya servers won't do much to boost Alpha's volume.J Tandem has been doing technology feasibility studies for several months toJ ensure that Alpha can run the Himalaya servers and the proprietary NonStop Kernel operating system.  ; The first Alpha chip to support Tandem will be the EV7; ther; next-generation EV6 is almost complete and Tandem thereforei9 can't add the necessary features to make it work with the ; Himalaya hardware. The first EV7 chips will emerge in earlyS; 2000, and Tandem machines will run on Alpha 15 to 18 monthsr9 later. Customers buying the NonStop Himalaya S-Series nowi: can upgrade to a couple of Mips improvements before moving to Alpha.  -Jeff Sweat   ---------------e  F So even that EV7 is 2 years late, it'll be a further 3 years before anL Itanic NSK system is ready for prime-time. And even then, will it be enough?' How's that for serving one's customers.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:53:21 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 7 Subject: Re: Should have been included in the last posta, Message-ID: <3DC82FB7.60999B64@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:eH > So even that EV7 is 2 years late, it'll be a further 3 years before anN > Itanic NSK system is ready for prime-time. And even then, will it be enough?) > How's that for serving one's customers.e  N Had Compaq not planned the demise of Alpha a long time ago, how late would EV7 have been ?h  L Intel has no reason to artificially delay IA64. Its delays are really due to1 Intel's technical problems with the bloated chip.-  L But Compaq had every reason to delay EV7. Not only to reduce costs, but alsoN to ensure that Intel's IA64 wouldn't look so dismal when it came out, allowingN Compaq to kill Alpha. If EV7 had been out by then, Compaq would have been seen# as totally crazy to kill off Alpha.8   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:10:19 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i7 Subject: Re: Should have been included in the last posthK Message-ID: <flXx9.165760$mxk1.131203@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>c  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DC82FB7.60999B64@videotron.ca... > John Smith wrote:dJ > > So even that EV7 is 2 years late, it'll be a further 3 years before anH > > Itanic NSK system is ready for prime-time. And even then, will it be enough?i+ > > How's that for serving one's customers.  >hL > Had Compaq not planned the demise of Alpha a long time ago, how late would EV7.
 > have been ?a >nK > Intel has no reason to artificially delay IA64. Its delays are really duee to3 > Intel's technical problems with the bloated chip.  > I > But Compaq had every reason to delay EV7. Not only to reduce costs, but  alsoG > to ensure that Intel's IA64 wouldn't look so dismal when it came out,  allowingK > Compaq to kill Alpha. If EV7 had been out by then, Compaq would have been  seen% > as totally crazy to kill off Alpha.n   100% agreement.i  J Only with Compaq delaying EV7 for whatever reasons they were, technical orJ political, only drove billions of dollars of revenue AWAY between then and today.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:39:04 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o7 Subject: Re: Should have been included in the last posta, Message-ID: <3DC84878.3C5897B7@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:i  sL > Only with Compaq delaying EV7 for whatever reasons they were, technical orL > political, only drove billions of dollars of revenue AWAY between then and > today.    K .COM mentality where image is everything and money is not important because ; Wall Street will keep giving you billions as you need them.p  M Appearing to lead the virtual IA64 bandwagon was probably more important than.J to ensure real revenus. Compaq probably didn't want to be last to join theN IA64 virtual bandwagon. Of course, in the end, it and HP will be the onle ones, who have embarked on that virtual bandwagon.  M A bit like the coyote that charges full speed ahead to cross that canyon, andnK all seems fine until he looks down are realises there is no longer anythingm3 supporting it, and only then does he start to fall.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:38:26 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i% Subject: Re: SHOW PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE , Message-ID: <3DC81021.85BDE493@videotron.ca>  " Actually, for me, I'd like to see:   SHOW PROC/IMAGE-  I and one which works whatever the process status is. It is when you find arM process in a weird state that you want to see what it is running, but usuallygL SHOW PROC tells you it doesn't want to give you that information because theJ process is suspended , or whatever other reason it can find to withold the information from you.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:36:36 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> % Subject: Re: SHOW PROCESS/PARSE_STYLEi, Message-ID: <3DC80FB4.D035681C@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote: >    What I really want are:( >       show device/files/process=<name>   That is an easy one:  = PIPE show dev/files/nosys <disk:> | search sys$input <string>   M I use that fairly often. (for instance to find out where a process's log filea is hidden).    ------------------------------  " Date: Tue,  5 Nov 02 20:12:07 +100 From: rok@nuk.uni-lj.sio% Subject: Re: SHOW PROCESS/PARSE_STYLEc$ Message-ID: <3dc83431@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>  2 In Article <2e4ZhrGfRzAa@eisner.encompasserve.org>/ koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:s   > [...], >   What I really want are:h >A/ >      show process/quota=(authorized,consumed)e9 >      show process/privileges=(authorized,current,image):- >      show device/blocks=(free,used,maximum)v' >      show device/files/process=<name>m5 >      show device/files/process=<pid>/identificationfD >      show users/remote_node=<name or address>/protocol=<transport>    What about:   $ show configuration  , listing processors, controllers, units ... ?   Regards,  D Rok Vidmar                       Internet:  rok.vidmar@nuk.uni-lj.si; National and University Library  Phone:     +386 1 421 5461d; Turjaska 1, SI-1000 Ljubljana    Fax:       +386 1 421 5464k Slovenia   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 11:21:28 -0800n7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)l) Subject: Re: Slow performance with BACKUPe= Message-ID: <8a646952.0211051121.52b326fa@posting.google.com>e  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DC73B1A.A9CED562@fsi.net>... > Rudolf Wingert wrote:a > > 
 > > Hello, > > < > > I did see a very slow performance with BACKUP. Scenario: > > E > >         Backup node = dual 500Mhz processor DS20 with 4GB memory.i? > >         OpenVMS 7.1-2 AXP, backup media 2x73GB Seagate diskN< > >         parallel BACKUP of 10 Alphas a two disk. Everery< > >         disk is MSCP mounted on the backup node. The tenA > >         Alpas are connected via 100BaseTX and the backup node5A > >         with 1000BaseSC. For the backup we used the following K > >         command BACK/IMA/VER/REC DISKn: DISKm:[BACKUP]DISKn.IBCK/SAVE - K > >         /noCRC/GROUP=0. The disk's on board write cache was enabled -->>4 > >         18.5MB/s possible throuput to the disks. > > M > > I started the backup last monday. Two backups will be processed till now.uL > > The complete backup will have less then 180GB --> less then 16GB/day -->C > > less then 0.8GB/h. I did compute the following max. throughput:7J > > min of (10*100Mb/s, 1000Mb/s, 2*18.5MB/s) = 37MB/s = 133MB/h --> afterJ > > three hour BACKUP must be finished. Does anybody have an idea why not?G > > Is anything wrong with my calculation or anything else? Any help is  > > welcome. > I > The only comment I would add is that such calculations assume exclusivet/ > access to the wire, which is rarely the case.i  1 There are several reason why backup will be slow.wB     1. Your performing a backup via MSCP served disks - Tuned eachA node that has these disk served to the backup node. (MSCP BUFFER) D     2. Backup over a network is slow to begin with and over 100BaseTC will add to it. Remember, the backup is only as fast as the slowestm network card will perform.0     3. The group parameter should be left at 10.F     4. At the DSIN site, there is 1989 article about backups, how theyB work, and performance tuning. I would strongly suggest you read itF very carefully. It is better than the article in System Manager Guide.C     5. Backup with veriy will double your run-time for the backup. A  F The only suggestion that I might give you is to perform the backups onC each node, copy the backup file to the backup node, and then backupo
 the savesets.    Daryl Jonesu   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 18:46:57 -0800e1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)i$ Subject: Re: The Leper colony at ETS= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0211051846.60937f39@posting.google.com>s   Dave,p  R My guess would be that Jeff Killeen has seen this note and forwarded to the board.  O I have no influence on this decision at all.  I just help with the VMS content.e   suen  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DC7440A.6D293074@fsi.net>... > Sue Skonetski wrote: > > I > > Just so you know they did not announce the next ETS as soon as I findt > > out I will let you know. > B > Yes! Please, especially the date for submissions of sessions andF > seminars! Don't know how to convince them that speakers need time toI > prepare, but I've already started working on the presentations I intendiH > to submit for (whatever)-2003. Hopefully, the close of submissions andI > session/seminar selections will be more than two months before the show 5 > (four months would great, six would be ideal, IMO).r   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 18:47:49 -0800d1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) $ Subject: Re: The Leper colony at ETS< Message-ID: <857e9e41.0211051847.b4b79eb@posting.google.com>  , funny I do not remember that part at all ;')  e "Mike Kier" <michael.kier@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<EASx9.27$Q_1.467093@news.cpqcorp.net>...lE > I particularly enjoyed the birthday celebration at The Big Bang :-)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:33:02 -0600c1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s$ Subject: Re: The Leper colony at ETS' Message-ID: <3DC88D6E.7539D75C@fsi.net>s   Sue Skonetski wrote: > . > funny I do not remember that part at all ;') > g > "Mike Kier" <michael.kier@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<EASx9.27$Q_1.467093@news.cpqcorp.net>...rG > > I particularly enjoyed the birthday celebration at The Big Bang :-)I   Oh, MY!n   -- r David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/K   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 19:03:10 -0800>1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)6F Subject: Update on the OpenVMS Advanced technical bootcamp (symposium)= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0211051903.3e7f39bb@posting.google.com>p  C Folks this is in reply to the questions you have sent me asking howP the symposium is going.a  D It is going great, we have the numbers we want, so we are happy withC that.  What I am surprised about is the fact that there are so manyrC people from outside the US coming.  I really like it when there are > folks from all over the world, it makes you feel like a bigger@ community and they all love VMS.  There are a few internal folks mostly from ouside the US.  F There will be a few surprises for the attendees, and I certainly think that they will be busy.t  B I will start planning the next symposium as soon as I find out theB dates for ETS so that we do not run into the same timming issue as
 this time.  C Warren is refreshing the agenda/website tonight so there is more on15 the website which is right off the OpenVMS home page.o  , If you have any questions just send me mail.   Warm Regards as always,w   sueo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:42:07 -0500h0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>J Subject: Re: Update on the OpenVMS Advanced technical bootcamp (symposium)/ Message-ID: <3DC88F8A.DF7CB6E9@vl.videotron.ca>r   Sue, how are you feeling ? p  7 Have the VMS engineers given you *any* trouble lately ?c   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 14:28:28 -0800h7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)>/ Subject: Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>) < Message-ID: <8a646952.0211051428.a5c7f04@posting.google.com>  Z "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com> wrote in message news:<aq8dst$chd$1@license1.unx.sas.com>...J > Okay, I have to ask... do you really mean 250,000 instructions?  I wouldI > have guessed more like 300 instructions or thereabouts for the originaltI > 11/780 architecture (not including PDP-11 instructions), unless you area: > counting perrmutations of addressing modes or something? >  > F > "Daryl Jones" <jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message9 > news:8a646952.0211011535.5cd3d36d@posting.google.com...o
 > [elided] > >iE > > Back in the 1980s, the VAX/VMS 11/780 was rated by DEC as a 1 MIP J > > machine. However, there was a brew-ha-ha with IBM over what was a MIP.J > > This caused DEC to rate the VAX 11/780 as a 1 VUP machine instead of aH > > 1 MIP machine. The origainal VAX processor had a 250,000 instructionG > > set. The MicroVAX chip with its 150,000 instruction set was used in J > > the MicroVAX I and II, then later in the VAX6000 and VAX7000 machines. > > The Alpha is a RISC chip.e     Tim,  E The VAX instruction set for the VAX-11 as stated by Levy and Eckhousee@ in 1980: "The VAX-11 instruction set currently includes over 240? instructions and over 20 formats for operand specifiers, called. addressing modes."  D The VAX-11 is CISC chip where one VAX-11 instruction could be one orF more RISC instruction. When I refer to 250,000 instruction set. I meanB that the VAX-11 instruction set have hard wire in the chip 250,000F RISC instruction into it. The MicroVAX chip was made faster in one way@ by reducing the number of instruction that were combine into oneA instruction on the VAX-11 chip. One set of instructions that werenB unbundle in the MicroVAX chip was the Packed decimal instructions.  2 I hope this help you out. Sorry for the confusion.   Daryl JonesV   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:58:21 -0500n0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>/ Subject: Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>)h/ Message-ID: <3DC8854B.FCE086BE@vl.videotron.ca>o   Daryl Jones wrote:B > in 1980: "The VAX-11 instruction set currently includes over 240A > instructions and over 20 formats for operand specifiers, calledt > addressing modes."  N In terms of instruction decoding, were instructions one byte ? That would make a maximum of 256 instructions. e  H > more RISC instruction. When I refer to 250,000 instruction set. I meanD > that the VAX-11 instruction set have hard wire in the chip 250,000 > RISC instruction into it.n  N That is hard to believe.  Would this not really mean that when you combine theL "lines of microcode" of each of the 240   opcodes, you end up with a programF consisting of over 250,000 lines of microcode ? (as opposed to 250,000 different risc instructions ?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:48:21 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i# Subject: Re: VMS job posting sites?f, Message-ID: <3DC81273.4D007C91@videotron.ca>   Ken Farmer wrote:o > C > > there is a forum to pot your resume for potential head hunters.n > 4 > Inhale, cough, cough, exhale.  I meant "post."  :)  L Between Terry Shannon and his frogs, and you and your pot, one has to wonder what is *really* happening athJ what_used_to_be_called_DECUS_but_is_now_called_a_random_name_this_week :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:06:31 -0500e! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>l# Subject: Re: VMS job posting sites?t' Message-ID: <3DC816B7.254BC14B@vcu.edu>o  6 i must have missed something... Terry and frogs???????   JF Mezei wrote:t >  > Ken Farmer wrote:  > >oE > > > there is a forum to pot your resume for potential head hunters.  > >l6 > > Inhale, cough, cough, exhale.  I meant "post."  :) > N > Between Terry Shannon and his frogs, and you and your pot, one has to wonder > what is *really* happening ataL > what_used_to_be_called_DECUS_but_is_now_called_a_random_name_this_week :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:23:40 GMTi( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org># Subject: Re: VMS job posting sites?i> Message-ID: <0VUx9.73542$dn3.2669765@twister.southeast.rr.com>   })       --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.orgr      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DC81273.4D007C91@videotron.ca... > Ken Farmer wrote:] > >eE > > > there is a forum to pot your resume for potential head hunters.  > >c6 > > Inhale, cough, cough, exhale.  I meant "post."  :) > G > Between Terry Shannon and his frogs, and you and your pot, one has to  wonder > what is *really* happening atpL > what_used_to_be_called_DECUS_but_is_now_called_a_random_name_this_week :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:01:03 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>w# Subject: RE: VMS job posting sites?RK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B97@rlghncst964.usps.gov>e  ) 'E could've been using "pot" as a verb...    Main Entry: pota Function: verb( Inflected Form(s): pot=B7ted; pot=B7ting
 Date: 1616 transitive senses0  - 4 : to embed (as electronic components) in=20y/ a container with an insulating or protective=20e material (as plastic)   - or per'aps 'e was just pinin' for the fjords.f   WWWebb    6 i must have missed something... Terry and frogs???????   JF Mezei wrote:  >H > Ken Farmer wrote:) > > E > > > there is a forum to pot your resume for potential head hunters.g > >c6 > > Inhale, cough, cough, exhale.  I meant "post."  :) > G > Between Terry Shannon and his frogs, and you and your pot, one has to) wonder > what is *really* happening at  > =IH what_used_to_be_called_DECUS_but_is_now_called_a_random_name_this_week = :-)   I =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=     William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:33:12 -05000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r# Subject: Re: VMS job posting sites?t, Message-ID: <3DC84718.CAC079D6@videotron.ca>  
 VAXVMS wrote:g   8 > i must have missed something... Terry and frogs???????  & He asked us not to froget to vote :-)   9 (is a froget a  small frog, or would that be a frogette ?t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:44:14 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com># Subject: RE: VMS job posting sites?S0 Message-ID: <01C284D9.D0AFD870@sulfer.icius.com>  C Hmmm. Now let's see. Frogette would be the feminine form, so frogetaE would be masculine. I was once told the easiest way to work out which-G applied was to think if you would put the item inside something, or putr@ things inside it. So, I guess it depends on whether you like the3 firecracker approach to frog abuse, or the blender.2  4 There, that's my silliness quota filled for the day.   Shaneu   -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]( Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:33 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu# Subject: Re: VMS job posting sites?     
 VAXVMS wrote:M  T8 > i must have missed something... Terry and frogs???????  & He asked us not to froget to vote :-)   9 (is a froget a  small frog, or would that be a frogette ?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:05:22 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c1 Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical? , Message-ID: <3DC81670.5C9EA9CC@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > That last comment seems to merit a response as well.  Since no Alpha systemsI > ever made has supported lock-step operation (EV7 may, but has no system I > software that can make any use of it), are you suggesting that no Alpha:< > system ever made is good enough for mission-critical use?     L How did the VAXft handle the "fault tolerant" aspects ? Did it have lockstep in VAX ?  L Tandem's architecture requires lockstep, just like VMS requires certain chipJ attributes (whcih were "missing" from alpha and incorporated as PAL code).: Perhaps VMS achieves its robustness through other methods.  M It isn't so much the fact that IA64 has lockstep that is key here. But ratheraK the fact that when Tandem was lured into the Intel IA64 trap, it would havehM given intel its requirements for a chip worthy of running in a Tandem. Hence, M it is logical to conclude that IA64 was intented to have what it takes to run  inside a serious machine.   G What is interesting though is that at the time Intel was planning those N features, Palmer had more or less told everyone not to bother with VMS becauseT VMS wouldn't last much longer. So Intel wouldn't have factored VMS' needs into IA64.  N So while the Tandem folks probably have a straightforwards port to a chip thatN has the needed features to run NSK, are there features missing from IA64 whichB are forcing the all-mighty VMS engineers to jump through hoops andP burning-loops to port something that was easy/straightforward on VAX and Alpha ?   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 11:48:24 -0800g1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 1 Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical? = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0211051148.7ba50203@posting.google.com>4  + "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:j@ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0211042048.46be5830@posting.google.com...iI > > Itanium was designed with the intent of supporting NonStop (which, asyH > > things turned out, it will), so its design is deterministic and will > > support lockstep operation.  >dM > That last comment seems to merit a response as well.  Since no Alpha systemiI > ever made has supported lock-step operation (EV7 may, but has no systemeI > software that can make any use of it), are you suggesting that no Alphal; > system ever made is good enough for mission-critical use?.  B While OpenVMS and NonStop share many high-end system requirements,A those of NonStop seem to be even more stringent, at least in some F areas, than those of OpenVMS, considering that EV7 needed to have someD design work to ensure that it was deterministic, and could be run in  lock-step, to work with NonStop.  > So no, I'm not suggesting that Alpha was never good enough forA OpenVMS; my suggestion is that it is beginning to appear that the3C Itanium design may have been done with greater emphasis on high-endoC system requirements than that of the Opteron design, and that wouldtF imply AMD may at least need to do another iteration of their design toD add high-end features before it can compete effectively with Itanium on the high end.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:51:25 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>1 Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?.2 Message-ID: <or6dnXygoZqnvFWgXTWc3A@metrocast.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DC81670.5C9EA9CC@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:H > > That last comment seems to merit a response as well.  Since no Alpha systemK > > ever made has supported lock-step operation (EV7 may, but has no systemiK > > software that can make any use of it), are you suggesting that no Alphab= > > system ever made is good enough for mission-critical use?u >o >wE > How did the VAXft handle the "fault tolerant" aspects ? Did it havel lockstep
 > in VAX ?  > I presume so, or something functionally equivalent, since trueH fault-tolerance requires suitably-redundant hardware with hardware-level checks.o   >2I > Tandem's architecture requires lockstep, just like VMS requires certaink chipL > attributes (whcih were "missing" from alpha and incorporated as PAL code).< > Perhaps VMS achieves its robustness through other methods.  J VMS certainly achieves what robustness it has through other methods, sinceK it doesn't have fault-tolerant hardware to run on (ftVAX excepted).  But itrL can't achieve the same level of reliability that a similarly well-engineered* OS running on fault-tolerant hardware can.   > H > It isn't so much the fact that IA64 has lockstep that is key here. But ratherH > the fact that when Tandem was lured into the Intel IA64 trap, it would haveH > given intel its requirements for a chip worthy of running in a Tandem. Hence,K > it is logical to conclude that IA64 was intented to have what it takes toa runc > inside a serious machine.L  L IA64 was also intended to ship in 1997 - 1998, and to exceed the performanceJ of its RISC competitors by a factor of 2 - 3:  intentions don't always panK out.  Plus, of course, the processor is only one part of the fault-tolerant E system:  it requires suitable surrounding components that can supportwI full-board-level fault-tolerance before the system can start to be calledtJ fault-tolerant (one must assume that Tandem feels it can do this, but it'sF likely that such boards won't bear much resemblance to standard Itanic system boards).o   > I > What is interesting though is that at the time Intel was planning those H > features, Palmer had more or less told everyone not to bother with VMS because K > VMS wouldn't last much longer. So Intel wouldn't have factored VMS' needso
 into IA64.  K Intel wouldn't have factored in any VMS needs anyway, since at that time no7J one in any position to influence that decision had any interest in runningK VMS on IA64 - even if they had felt that VMS had a long and glorious futureO ahead of it.   > K > So while the Tandem folks probably have a straightforwards port to a chip  thatJ > has the needed features to run NSK, are there features missing from IA64 whichaD > are forcing the all-mighty VMS engineers to jump through hoops andJ > burning-loops to port something that was easy/straightforward on VAX and Alpha ?g  I I'm getting curious just how many times you're going to ask that question-J and ignore all the previous answers (there have been at least three that I= can remember) that have consistently said "No, there aren't."k   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:11:09 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>1 Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?X2 Message-ID: <P4ycndHb2tFHuFWgXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0211051148.7ba50203@posting.google.com...I   ...   D > While OpenVMS and NonStop share many high-end system requirements,C > those of NonStop seem to be even more stringent, at least in someeH > areas, than those of OpenVMS, considering that EV7 needed to have someF > design work to ensure that it was deterministic, and could be run in" > lock-step, to work with NonStop.  K I'd be less inclined to call NSK's requirements 'more stringent' than VMS'spL than to note that NSK's environment required one specific feature that VMS'sE did not (lock-step operation, which pretty much implies deterministicaJ processor initial states).  The presence of that feature in EV7 won't makeL EV7 any better a high-end platform for VMS (unless VMS were enhanced to takeC advantage of it), though IIRC some have noted that it can help make + verifying the processor's operation easier.    >e@ > So no, I'm not suggesting that Alpha was never good enough forC > OpenVMS; my suggestion is that it is beginning to appear that thedE > Itanium design may have been done with greater emphasis on high-enddE > system requirements than that of the Opteron design, and that wouldaH > imply AMD may at least need to do another iteration of their design toF > add high-end features before it can compete effectively with Itanium > on the high end.  E Leaving the question of parity on the general registers aside until aiE suitably-experienced CPU designer has pronounced judgement on it, thegK presence of lock-stop in Itanic makes it a superior platform only for thosedE environments which demand hardware-level fault-tolerance (i.e., thoseeL currently satisfied by Tandem, Stratus, special IBM ft hardware, special SunK ft hardware, and a handful of other special-purpose ft hardware platforms).aD So while the statement that Hammer can't compete with Itanic in thatL high-end space (if/when actual Itanic ft platforms exist, which won't be forE another couple of years at least AFAIK) may be accurate, it's no more G correct than the statement that Alpha can't compete with Itanic in that G space (since while EV7 will have the hardware feature AFAIK there'll be-  nothing taking advantage of it).  H In other words, you seem to be saying that Hammer's high-end range won'tK exceed Alpha's, and while I can agree with that statement I don't see it as>I a very significant limitation - probably not as commercially significant,(K for example, as the Opteron and EV7 features (on-chip memory controller andaK routing) that Itanic won't have for at least another 3 years (if indeed therJ guess that they may appear in 2005 is correct:  if all we get then is dual' Montecito cores, it'll be even longer).i   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 12:47:00 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 1 Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?y< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0211051247.c75f4bf@posting.google.com>  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:E > How did the VAXft handle the "fault tolerant" aspects ? Did it have0 > lockstep in VAX ?e  E Yes, the VAXft system used sets of 4 MicroVAX chips, and ran pairs of-E MicroVAX chips in lock-step.  If a pair failed the comparison betweena? them, the other pair of MicroVAX chips took over.  VAXft systemRE hardware was fully redundant, right down to multiple disk controllersw and Ethernet adapters.D See http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/1990-1.htm8 http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/archive/vaxft.htmlI http://www.sysworks.com.au/disk$vaxdocdec951/decw$book/d3ywaa56.decw$bookWB http://research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ108/DTJ108SC.TXT  F And when you combined the VAXft hardware platform with OpenVMS ClusterF Software, allowing non-stop service even through rolling upgrades (andF patches) of the operating system on the two "zones" within the system,F this solution could provide even lower total downtime than an ordinary
 FT system.  A While I was at HP World, I talked with a representative from HP's-D NonStop organization, and he found very interesting (and promised toF take back to his group) my suggestion that one way to increase NonStopC system volumes (and thus lower per-unit costs and make NonStop more.A cost-effective) would be to allow OpenVMS to run on Itanium-basedk> NonStop system designs, reviving the support in OpenVMS for FT, hardware that it had back in the VAXft days.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:56:20 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s Subject: Re: Voting Systems ? , Message-ID: <3DC81452.C9A9BCBA@videotron.ca>  M > > the unlikely event of a sudden equipment failure.  The voting units use aeN > > form the Microsoft Windows operating system, the most widely used software > > in the world.f  M A form of Windows ? would that be Windows-CE ? Since Windows is so unreliablelL and so hackable, I wonder why they were stupid enough to mention what it was	 running ?u  M > > each machine, and from all of the units in an individual precinct.  These N > > tapes, along with the removable PC cards from each unit, are collected andK > > transported to the county elections office.  There, the vote totals are,C > > compiled and the cards and tapes are kept in a secure location.d  E Have they ever considered using a modem to transmit the information ?n  N Also, I kinda giggled when they mentioned "paper tape". I figured someone mustK have insisted to keep at least one part of the legacy systems ... (is paper , tape older or younger than punched cards  ?)  M > For national elections in Canada they still use paper ballots and manage toa9 > report the results within an hour of the polls closing.u  K Yep, but that is because they are not centrally counted. Each voting centretV counts the ballots and reports the totals for each box. Lots more parallel processing.  K And in fairness, in canada, we only vote for one thing, the MP to representrK the riding. In the USA, they vote on a gazillion proposals ranging from whohM should be elected president to whether children should have chocolate puddingi7 at public schools. This is more complex a job to count.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 21:00:53 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Voting Systems ? 5 Message-ID: <aq9bi4$7umih$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>y  * In article <QeTx9.2641$sP2.512@sccrnsc02>,- 	"Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes: B > "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> wrote in message" > news:3dc7db43$1@news.euriware...( >> http://www.georgiacounts.com/faqs.htm >>  The voting units use aM >> form the Microsoft Windows operating system, the most widely used software4 >> in the world. >  > How scary. And unfortunate.E >   ? Not nearly as scary as the thought thye might actually believe:s  5            "assuring that no vote can ever be lost. "e   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2002 14:34:30 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)I Subject: Re: Voting Systems ?s3 Message-ID: <FP+0Z3xbqv9y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3DC81452.C9A9BCBA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:N >> > the unlikely event of a sudden equipment failure.  The voting units use aO >> > form the Microsoft Windows operating system, the most widely used softwaret >> > in the world. > O > A form of Windows ? would that be Windows-CE ? Since Windows is so unreliableeN > and so hackable, I wonder why they were stupid enough to mention what it was > running ?h  =    Now you know why the feds had to back off on the law suit.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:02:36 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>' Subject: Re: Voting Systems ?eH Message-ID: <0eXx9.200032$%h2.7624@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:FP+0Z3xbqv9y@eisner.encompasserve.org...l7 > In article <3DC81452.C9A9BCBA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei & <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:J > >> > the unlikely event of a sudden equipment failure.  The voting units use a H > >> > form the Microsoft Windows operating system, the most widely used software > >> > in the world. > >aF > > A form of Windows ? would that be Windows-CE ? Since Windows is so
 unreliableL > > and so hackable, I wonder why they were stupid enough to mention what it wasi
 > > running ?v >i? >    Now you know why the feds had to back off on the law suit.-    G Sure, otherwise Bill Gates would have one 1 Senate seat in each state'sF election today.p   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:00:34 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: Voting Systems ?w@ Message-ID: <20021106020034.15103.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>  , USA  should buy brazilian voting machines ! : We had elections now and in one day we knew the results ofE the elections for President, State Governos, Deputies and Senators ! S     Regardse   FC g2 --- Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:7 > In article <3DC81452.C9A9BCBA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeit( > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:N > >> > the unlikely event of a sudden equipment failure.  The voting units use > a,H > >> > form the Microsoft Windows operating system, the most widely used
 > software > >> > in the world. > > F > > A form of Windows ? would that be Windows-CE ? Since Windows is so > unreliableL > > and so hackable, I wonder why they were stupid enough to mention what it > was 
 > > running ?- > ? >    Now you know why the feds had to back off on the law suit.r >      =====f ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazild fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?# HotJobs - Search new jobs daily noww http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:04:48 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: Voting Systems ?a@ Message-ID: <20021106020448.24393.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  6 In Brazil some voting machines were built by Unisys ! ; I think it works with FreeBSD or VirtuOS - I am not sure ! c RegardsO   FC S& --- Island <sales@islandco.com> wrote:> > Does anyone know who developed the voting system in Georgia?$ > Also - is it running Windows ?????< > If so, we should probably return to punch cards and levers >  > -- > David B Turner > Sales Dpt ! > Island Computers US Corporationt > 2700 Gregory Streeta > Suite 180g > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622- > Fax: 912 201 0096u > sales@islandco.com > www.islandco.com) > http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htm_ >  > We sell Alpha Systems !U, > All emails are checked for Virus and Worms >  >      =====> ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?# HotJobs - Search new jobs daily nowo http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:14:25 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?iH Message-ID: <5pXx9.200113$%h2.5948@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ' I know that Rich Marcello was notified.o    1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message * news:01C284B5.D14E45B0@sulfer.icius.com...H > I find this disturbing. Surely some of the VMS engineering & marketingF > people are reading this thread; does that mean the survey people areJ > refusing to fix it rather than just being lazy? And if they're refusing, > at what level of management?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:40:18 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>- Subject: RE: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?o0 Message-ID: <01C284D9.53785580@sulfer.icius.com>  F And /he/ couldn't get it changed? Or didn't want to? [Insert Jay's rap here.]   Shanes   -----Original Message-----( From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]( Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:14 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?o    ' I know that Rich Marcello was notified.     1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message * news:01C284B5.D14E45B0@sulfer.icius.com...H > I find this disturbing. Surely some of the VMS engineering & marketingF > people are reading this thread; does that mean the survey people areJ > refusing to fix it rather than just being lazy? And if they're refusing, > at what level of management?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:40:13 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?u, Message-ID: <3DC848BC.56505C06@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:s > ) > I know that Rich Marcello was notified.   K Are you a spy ? Are there such weaknesses in HP's wintel based email systema* that you can read his incoming emails ???    :-) :-)                                       , or did you just send him an email yourself ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 01:49:11 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose? I Message-ID: <ry_x9.201752$%h2.24216@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DC848BC.56505C06@videotron.ca... > John Smith wrote:  > >p+ > > I know that Rich Marcello was notified.d >l= > Are there such weaknesses in HP's wintel based email system     L No way of knowing for sure, but knowing Billyware I wouldn't bet against it.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 01:57:54 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> - Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?oJ Message-ID: <CG_x9.201780$%h2.172042@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messageh* news:01C284D9.53785580@sulfer.icius.com...H > And /he/ couldn't get it changed? Or didn't want to? [Insert Jay's rap > here.]  J I don't think that web site is owned/operated by HP, so I believe that all) he could do is bitch like the rest of us.g  F Tandem/NSK isn't his department, and I'm sure Pauline Nist has her ownK agenda to follow, and the only thing he/she have in common is that they are.K both fated to sink with Itanic unless the banks and stock exchanges tell HPn to change cpu's for NSK.  K Unfortunately for VMS there is no group of customers large enough with thatiF much clout left.   DOD maybe, but even with current generation Alpha'sJ J-Stars will not likely need much more single-cpu power well into the nextI decade - they can cluster to add horsepower until the APU's can't provideiK any more electricity. At that point, they lower the wind turbine out of thebL belly for more electricity and air conditioning. They can always put smaller= and lighter crews on-board to save the additional weight. :-)e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 01:43:06 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>r% Subject: Re: What Ethertype do I use?a2 Message-ID: <3DC8721C.4E3D3191@firstdbasource.com>   labadie wrote: > , > "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1> wrote in message& > news:aq7vdn$heq$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > >s? > > "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message , > > news:3DC70894.2C5763FC@pressenter.com...2 > > > I was asked that by our network guys lately. > > >  > > >t( > > > I told them "DECnet, LAT, TCP/IP." > >e >  Hello > . > Suppose you want to see the protocols on EWA, > Basic hack, with much room for improvementB > gawk :== $ sys$common:<syshlp.examples.tcpip.snmp>gawk.exe_alpha
 > cr c.awk
 > BEGIN {} > /EWA/ {print $4 " " $5}u > ctrl z > E > $ pipe wr sys$output "sh lan" | ana/sys | gawk/input=c.awk sys$pipei > M > will show the codes (60-07 for SCA, 08-00 for IP) and the associated names.r > I > The first line should not be printed, but I guess the (numerous) people F > knowing gawk better than me will offer a better script, avoiding the	 > Summaryo > line and the blank line. > 	 > Regardsg >  > Grard    F and if you don't want to go to the pain of trying to figure out how to	 use gawk:0  ? $ pipe write sys$output "sh lan" | ana/sys | sear sys$input ewaU  >                  -- EWA Device Summary  5-NOV-2002 19:39:03 -- EWA0     809844C025 EWA2     809A2D40  Eth   60-03           DECNET  0017  STRTN,LEN,UNIQ,STRTDF EWA3     80A40840  Eth   08-00           IP      0015 STRTN,UNIQ,STRTDF EWA4     80A41040  Eth   08-06           ARP     0015 STRTN,UNIQ,STRTDF EWA5     80A41840  Eth   86-DD                   0015 STRTN,UNIQ,STRTD   -- h Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:39:18 -0500d0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>% Subject: Re: What Ethertype do I use?a/ Message-ID: <3DC88EE1.AC5EBDA1@vl.videotron.ca>e   Michael Austin wrote: . > > Basic hack, with much room for improvementD > > gawk :== $ sys$common:<syshlp.examples.tcpip.snmp>gawk.exe_alpha > > cr c.awk > > BEGIN {} > > /EWA/ {print $4 " " $5} 
 > > ctrl z > >nG > > $ pipe wr sys$output "sh lan" | ana/sys | gawk/input=c.awk sys$pipe-  H > and if you don't want to go to the pain of trying to figure out how to > use gawk:o > A > $ pipe write sys$output "sh lan" | ana/sys | sear sys$input ewap     Or even simpler:   $ANA/SYSTEMF
 SDA> SHOW LANt  K This way, you need not know what the name of the ethernet device is on thatn particular system.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:03:39 -0800* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>, Subject: [Hobbyist] Python-VMS documentation+ Message-ID: <3dc8160b$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>4  I Does anyone know if documentation exists for the use of the Rdb module ina+ Python-VMS 2.1.3 and where I might find it?.   Thanks,  Alder    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:41:07 +0100< From: "julien courtemanche" <julien.courtemanche@wanadoo.fr>0 Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] Python-VMS documentation3 Message-ID: <aq96os$6s5$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr>d  1  don't think that you can find documentation ....  but I have an example for you :n    import rdbs@ attach = rdb.statement("attach 'filename dimat$db alias dimat'") attach.execute()
 global commit % commit = rdb.statement("commit work")D global readonly 5 readonly = rdb.statement("set transaction read only")r global cursSelect 6 cursSelect = rdb.statement ("select telephone_abg from, dimat.notifications_cti where username = ?")  < after create the statement and attach you can use fetchAll :   readonly.execute ()0  cursSelect.execute (monUsername) res = cursSelect.fetchAll()  commit.execute() sqlCode = res[0] allRows = res[1:]h if sqlCode == 0: for x in allRows:A
 print x[0]   or simple fetch1   readonly.execute ()E  cursSelect.execute (monUsername) res = cursSelect.fetch() while res[0] == 0: print res[1][0]  res = cursSelect.fetch() cursSelect.close() commit.execute()  E "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> a crit dans le message de news:o  3dc8160b$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca...K > Does anyone know if documentation exists for the use of the Rdb module in - > Python-VMS 2.1.3 and where I might find it?  > 	 > Thanks,X > Alder  >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 06:10:32 GMTn( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>0 Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] Python-VMS documentation, Message-ID: <3DC8B159.1010306@spammotel.com>   julien courtemanche wrote:3 >  don't think that you can find documentation ....-! > but I have an example for you :e > 
 >  import rdb2B > attach = rdb.statement("attach 'filename dimat$db alias dimat'") > attach.execute() > global commit ' > commit = rdb.statement("commit work")v > global readonly 7 > readonly = rdb.statement("set transaction read only")t > global cursSelectv8 > cursSelect = rdb.statement ("select telephone_abg from. > dimat.notifications_cti where username = ?") > > > after create the statement and attach you can use fetchAll : >  > readonly.execute ()r" > cursSelect.execute (monUsername) > res = cursSelect.fetchAll()r > commit.execute() > sqlCode = res[0] > allRows = res[1:]r > if sqlCode == 0: > for x in allRows:c > print x[0] >  > or simple fetchi >  > readonly.execute () " > cursSelect.execute (monUsername) > res = cursSelect.fetch() > while res[0] == 0: > print res[1][0]r > res = cursSelect.fetch() > cursSelect.close() > commit.execute() > G > "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:e" > 3dc8160b$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca... > K >>Does anyone know if documentation exists for the use of the Rdb module ins- >>Python-VMS 2.1.3 and where I might find it?> >>	 >>Thanks,w >>Alder  >> >  >  >   O Many thanks for the sample, Julien.  I am (almost) completely new to VMS, Rdb,  P and Python, so these concrete examples help immensely.  I'll have to dissect it L carefully with an eye to the generic Python docs.  Hope you don't mind more 0 simple-minded questions in the (near) future :^)    
 Kind regards,-   Alder-   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.613 ************************