1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 06 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 614       Contents: Re: $ CREPRC with LOGINOUT $status return Re: $status return Re: $status return Re: $status return Re: $status return Re: $status return (%X18378C84) 3 Re: 6 free RA81 disks near philly (for pickup only) 3 Re: 6 free RA81 disks near philly (for pickup only) = Advanced server: Adding local groups rights on member server.  Re: alpha generation Re: alpha generation Re: CDE$HOME_DEFAULTS empty? Re: Disk size specification  Re: Disk size specification  Re: Disk size specification  Re: Don't Froget to Vote# Re: Encompass Electioneering Begins # Re: Encompass Electioneering Begins & Re: FC-AL support on VMS, coming soon? Goldfax performance/support ( Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?( Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?( Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?( Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?( Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS? RE: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site RE: HP Service5 Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It 5 Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It 5 RE: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It 5 Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It  Re: HP-ETS 2002 CD Re: Icons on Eisner...continued  Re: Icons on Eisner...continued  Re: Immutable laws of the PC Re: Immutable laws of the PC Re: Immutable laws of the PC7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek 7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek 7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek 7 Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek  IP-SNMP Receiver problem Re: looking for a DSSI cable% Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS % Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS % Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS % Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS % Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS % Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS % Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS % Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS % Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS 8 PGFLQUOTA increase on Alpha System VMS with java process Re: Remote Console access  Re: Remote Console access  Re: Show ConfigurationA Re: Update on the OpenVMS Advanced technical bootcamp (symposium) A Re: Update on the OpenVMS Advanced technical bootcamp (symposium) & Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>)& Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>)& Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>); VAX Macro Porting Problems with the stack frame library SF$ ? Re: VAX Macro Porting Problems with the stack frame library SF$ ? Re: VAX Macro Porting Problems with the stack frame library SF$ 0 Re: VMS PHP connect to local Oracle Rdb Database7 Re: VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version  Re: Voting Machines  Re: Voting Machines  Re: Voting Systems ? Re: Voting Systems ? Re: Voting Systems ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 08:41:05 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org# Subject: Re: $ CREPRC with LOGINOUT 3 Message-ID: <d2l5nke02ZP8@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <486786bf.0211050749.51adea99@posting.google.com>, ffrancillette@lucent.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9rick_FRANCILLETTE?=) writes:. > I tried to create a detached process using : >  >   sys_stat := $CREPRC / >         ( image := 'SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE', ( >           input := 'process_java.com',  >           prvadr := privilege,! >           quota := liste_quota,  >           prcnam := prcnam, 8 >           stsflg := PRC$M_DETACH + PRC$M_NOPASSWORD ); >  > with* >   liste_quota[1].code := PQL$_PGFLQUOTA;" >   liste_quota[1].value := value;( >   liste_quota[2].code := PQL$_LISTEND; > 7 > and process_java.com contains one line : $java "toto"  > B > The process is created and works fine but the problem is that myG > PGFLQUOTA value seems to be ignored. The value I can see is the value  > of the caller of the $CREPRC.    You did not specify PRC$M_NOUAF   6 Without this flag, LOGINOUT uses the process user name9 (which is inherited from the user name of the creator and 6 which bears NO relationship to the UIC under which the8 process is running) as a key into the UAF and determines< privileges, process priority, quotas and account information from that source.   4 LOGINOUT.EXE is magic.  It can change quotas for the running process.  = I am not sure how quota restrictions are enforced for $CREPRC 4 with PRC$M_DETACH.  The creator may need to have the4 IMPERSONATE (previously DETACH) in order to create a2 detached process with quotas in excess of his own.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 06:04:52 -0800 / From: wolfgang.kockegei@de.bosch.com (wolfgang)  Subject: $status return = Message-ID: <619292b6.0211060604.1aca3899@posting.google.com>    hi,     from a  $run <image> the symbol  $STATUS is set to  %X18378C84   # To find out what this mean, I used:   ! $help /message /status=%X18378C84   > %MSGHLP-F-NOTFOUND, message not found in Help Message database  " Any hints, what this status mean ?   Thanks,    Wolfgang   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:04:07 -0500* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: $status return 5 Message-ID: <A9ay9.17568$H67.77778@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>    What is the image name? L If a VMS utility, like backup, you may have to switch to the correct message library ($ SET MESSAGE) L If 3rd party software, msg may not be a standard msg and nowhere to be found
 in msg files.    --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) 8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  L "wolfgang" <wolfgang.kockegei@de.bosch.com> a crit dans le message de news:2 619292b6.0211060604.1aca3899@posting.google.com... > hi,  > ! > from a  $run <image> the symbol  > $STATUS is set to  %X18378C84  > % > To find out what this mean, I used:  > # > $help /message /status=%X18378C84  > @ > %MSGHLP-F-NOTFOUND, message not found in Help Message database > $ > Any hints, what this status mean ? > 	 > Thanks,  > 
 > Wolfgang   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 08:30:51 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: $status return 3 Message-ID: <O$4fzHe9YrI9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <619292b6.0211060604.1aca3899@posting.google.com>, wolfgang.kockegei@de.bosch.com (wolfgang) writes:  > hi,  > " > from a  $run <image> the symbol  > $STATUS is set to  %X18378C84  > % > To find out what this mean, I used:  > # > $help /message /status=%X18378C84  > @ > %MSGHLP-F-NOTFOUND, message not found in Help Message database > $ > Any hints, what this status mean ? >   7 	Without knowing what you are running... I'd say it was 7 	homegrown.  I use the following .com file, instead of  D 	"look_message" I call it find_message.com.  Here are the results on 	AlphaVMS 7.2-1:   NODE> @find_message 18378C84 Looking in ADAMSG.EXE... Looking in CDA$ACCESSMSG.EXE...  Looking in CLIUTLMSG.EXE...  Looking in CTF$MESSAGES.EXE... Looking in CXX$LINK_MSG.EXE... Looking in CXXL$MSG_SHR.EXE... Looking in DBGTBKMSG.EXE...  Looking in DBL$MSG.EXE...  Looking in DCE$RPC_MSG.EXE...  Looking in DDIF$VIEWMSG.EXE...# Looking in DECC$COMPILER_MSG.EXE...  Looking in DECC$MSG.EXE... Looking in DECW$DWTMSG.EXE...  Looking in DECW$LOGINMSG.EXE... " Looking in DECW$TERMINALMSG.EXE...# Looking in DECW$TRANSPORTMSG.EXE...  Looking in DECW$XLIBMSG.EXE... Looking in DIVA$LIB_MSG.EXE... Looking in DNS$MSG.EXE...  Looking in DNS$MSG_V.EXE...  Looking in DSM$MESSAGE.EXE...  Looking in EPC$MSG.EXE...  Looking in FILMNTMSG.EXE...  Looking in GENCATMSG.EXE...  Looking in ICONVMSG.EXE... Looking in LATMSG.EXE...& Looking in LES$ACP_MESSAGES_V30.EXE...! Looking in LES$NM_MESSAGES.EXE...  Looking in LMCP$MSG.EXE... Looking in LMF_MESSAGE.EXE...  Looking in LOCALEMSG.EXE...  Looking in MCMSG.EXE...  Looking in NETWRKMSG.EXE...  Looking in OSIT$VOTS_MSG.EXE...  Looking in PAS$MSG.EXE...  Looking in PLI$MSG.EXE...  Looking in PPLMSG.EXE... Looking in PPPDMSG.EXE...  Looking in PRGDEVMSG.EXE...  Looking in RPG$MSG.EXE...  Looking in SCN$MSG.EXE...  Looking in SHRIMGMSG.EXE...  Looking in SORTMSG.EXE...  Looking in SYSMGTMSG.EXE...  Looking in SYSMSG.EXE... Looking in TCPIP$MSG.EXE...  Looking in TECOMSG.EXE...  Looking in TIE$MESSAGES.EXE... Looking in TPUMSG.EXE...  - Message not found in any message file. Sorry.   , 	Same result on an older version of VAX/VMS.   	This is kind of handy too:    NODE> sh sym $status   $STATUS == "%X13F2AF01" % NODE> help /message/status=%X13F2AF01 > %MSGHLP-F-NOTFOUND, message not found in Help Message database node> @find_message 13F2AF01   	[snip]    Looking in TIE$MESSAGES.EXE... Looking in TPUMSG.EXE...   Message found in TPUMSG.EXE:* 13F2AF01 -> %TPU-S-EXITING, editor exiting  ( 	Find_message.com (or look_message.com):   $ !  $ ! LOOK_MSG.COM $ ! ============ $ ! ! $ ! (P) 1986 by Ing. Ferry Bolhar  $ ! Municipiality of Vienna  $ ! Municipial departement: ADV  $ ! C $ ! Given a message code, this procedure scans all message files in  SYS$MESSAGE: .EXE to find0 $ ! the message and the file wherein it resides. $ ! E $ ! Enter the message code as hexadecimal number, without leading %X.  $ ! 
 $ set NoOn $ put := writ sys$output $ set mess/delete , $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inqu p1 "Message Code" $ msgtxt = f$mess(%x'p1')  $ msglen = f$leng(msgtxt)  $ code = f$fao("!XL",%x'p1')< $ if f$loca("%NONAME-",msgtxt) .lt. msglen then goto MSGLOOP< $ if f$loca("-NOMSG,", msgtxt) .lt. msglen then goto MSGLOOP $ put ""- $ put "Message found in system message file:"  $ put "''code' -> ''msgtxt'" $ exit
 $ MSGLOOP:% $ msgfs = f$sear("SYS$MESSAGE:*.EXE") & $ if msgfs .eqs. "" then goto MSGNTFND8 $ fnam = f$pars(msgfs,,,"NAME") + f$pars(msgfs,,,"TYPE") $ put "Looking in ''fnam'..."  $ set mess 'msgfs' $ msgtxt = f$mess(%x'p1')  $ msglen = f$leng(msgtxt) < $ if f$loca("%NONAME-",msgtxt) .lt. msglen then goto MSGLOOP< $ if f$loca("-NOMSG,", msgtxt) .lt. msglen then goto MSGLOOP $ put ""! $ put "Message found in ''fnam':"  $ put "''code' -> ''msgtxt'" $ E_1: $ set mess/delete  $ exit $ MSGNTFND:  $ put ""5 $ put "Message not found in any message file. Sorry." 
 $ goto E_1     				Rob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:32:25 +0100 From: "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1>  Subject: Re: $status return * Message-ID: <aqbcmf$k0m$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  < "wolfgang" <wolfgang.kockegei@de.bosch.com> wrote in message7 news:619292b6.0211060604.1aca3899@posting.google.com...  > hi,  > ! > from a  $run <image> the symbol  > $STATUS is set to  %X18378C84   H you should have a .com file that does a loop in sys$message, such as the	 following   * $ MESSAGE_FLAGS = F$ENVIRONMENT("MESSAGE")& $ ! Recuperer P1 s'il n'est pas definiE $ IF P1 .EQS. "" THEN INQUIRE P1 "Numero de l'erreur VMS a chercher "  $ IF P1 .EQS. "" THEN EXIT+ $ ! Par defaut, le numero est donne en hexa  $ ERROR = %X'P1'! $ ! Voir si c'est pas dans SYSMSG  $ FILE = ""  $ SET MESSAGE/DELETE $ GOSUB MESSAGE 0 $ ! Mapper un par un les fichiers de SYS$MESSAGE $LOOP:& $ FILE = F$SEARCH("SYS$MESSAGE:*.EXE")! $ IF FILE .EQS. "" THEN GOTO EDIT , $ SET MESSAGE/NOFACIL/NOSEVER/NOTEXT/NOIDENT $ SET MESSAGE 'FILE  $ SET MESSAGE 'MESSAGE_FLAGS'  $ GOSUB MESSAGE  $ GOTO LOOP 0 $ ! On regarde si le message d'erreur est trouve	 $MESSAGE:  $ X = F$MESSAGE(ERROR)? $ IF F$LOCATE("Message number",X) .NES. F$LENGHT(X) THEN RETURN @ $ ! Editer l'erreur, son libelle et le nom du fichier de message $EDIT:4 $ IF FILE .NES. "" THEN FILE = " located in ''FILE'"H $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO("Error !XL (%D!SL)!AS!/!AS",ERROR,ERROR,FILE,X) $ EXIT $    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 11:16:05 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: $status return 3 Message-ID: <3MjthMnDG3SL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <619292b6.0211060604.1aca3899@posting.google.com>, wolfgang.kockegei@de.bosch.com (wolfgang) writes:  > hi,  > " > from a  $run <image> the symbol  > $STATUS is set to  %X18378C84  > % > To find out what this mean, I used:  > # > $help /message /status=%X18378C84  > @ > %MSGHLP-F-NOTFOUND, message not found in Help Message database  F    It most likely means R0 was left with random garbage on image exit.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 11:18:55 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: Re: $status return (%X18378C84)3 Message-ID: <tr1zhh66YEHY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <619292b6.0211060604.1aca3899@posting.google.com>, wolfgang.kockegei@de.bosch.com (wolfgang) writes:  > hi,  > " > from a  $run <image> the symbol  > $STATUS is set to  %X18378C84  > % > To find out what this mean, I used:  > # > $help /message /status=%X18378C84  > @ > %MSGHLP-F-NOTFOUND, message not found in Help Message database > $ > Any hints, what this status mean ?  1 $ search sys$library:starlet.req " sts$v_cust_def X macro STS$V_CUST_DEF = 0,27,1,0 %;      !  1 if sub-system is customer (or CSS) defined   E The fact that bit %x08000000 is set means that the message comes from : the 37(hex)th facility-specific message file at your site.  4 $ search sys$library:starlet.req " sts$v_fac_sp     B macro STS$V_FAC_SP = 0,15,1,0 %;        !  1 if facility specific   @ The fact that bit %x00008000 is set means that the message comesA from the facility-specific portion of the message space, so it is 3 not one of those found in the common SHR$ messages.   A The fact that you did not get a display of text when returning to  DCL means either:   < 	a) The developer who built the program failed to provide an9 	   appropriate facnam_MESSAGE.EXE file for SYS$MESSAGE:.   A 	b) The system manager somehow lost that facnam_MESSAGE.EXE file.   F Unless, of course, you obtained this error code through a utility suchH as ACCOUNTING, in which case the text may be embedded in the program and" you need to look at the batch log.  F The fact that HELP/MESSAGE does not give you information means either:  ; 	a) The developer who built the program failed to provide a = 	   facnam_LIBRARY.MSGHLP data file for HELP/MESSAGE support.   ; 	b) The system manager failed to define system logical name < 	   MSGHLP$LIBRARY to include the facnam_LIBRARY.MSGHLP data) 	   file as one of the equivalence names.   = Obviously if bit %x08000000 were not set those names would be    	facnam$LIBRARY.MSGHLP    and 	facnam$MESSAGE.EXE    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:58:58 +0100 & From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>< Subject: Re: 6 free RA81 disks near philly (for pickup only)$ Message-ID: <3DC90402.2781@c-lab.de>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:  >    > > N > > As I recollect, that's one of the reasons Fujitsu and their 'Eagle' drives. > > were a big hit, not to mention lower cost. > : > I think the Fuji Eagles were faster, too. And physically
 > smaller. >   G Well, a little smaller (less height). And while the 'plain' Eagles were H surprisingly robust, there was a Super Eagle variant (with 450 or almostH 500MB) that failed about 86/87 two or even times in a row (brand new, ofE course) with a head crash in my university's department. The reseller B suggested a 8" Fujitsu then, which worked well at least until '90.  = > Grant Saviers, the DEC VP in charge of Storage at the time, ; > was obsessed with "areal density/capacity" over all other ; > attributes of drive performance. I think DEC's drives may 6 > have been leaders in that area with the RA81 storing5 > what was then a huge amount of data, but the drives   B And later Fujitsu 8" drives like the M2372 (ca. 700MB) or the evenH larger M2392 (ca. 800MB),  suffered apparently under the consequences ofE a similar obsession: Their density was so high that their simply lost C their data after about 15 months. Regular reformatting necessary...      --  * Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:10:11 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>< Subject: Re: 6 free RA81 disks near philly (for pickup only), Message-ID: <aqb0r4$1ohi@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  R "Michael Joosten" <joost@c-lab.de> wrote in message news:3DC90402.2781@c-lab.de...  I > Well, a little smaller (less height). And while the 'plain' Eagles were J > surprisingly robust, there was a Super Eagle variant (with 450 or almostJ > 500MB) that failed about 86/87 two or even times in a row (brand new, of: > course) with a head crash in my university's department.  I Indeed. I ran 3 RA81's, 3 Eagles and 3 Super Eagles for years. There were B about 5 RA81 failures, 2 Super Eagle failures, and 0 Eagle faults.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:24:19 -0800 $ From: wellingo@gvb.nl (Onno Welling)F Subject: Advanced server: Adding local groups rights on member server.= Message-ID: <6b3c917e.0211060724.5d9a9887@posting.google.com>    Hello,  E In the light of moving a server from one domain to the other, we came  across this phenomenon:   < We have both global groups in a domain and local groups on aB memberserver (which is a VMS 7.2-2 cluster). Both local and globalD groups have the same name. We are currently trying to give the local: group on a memberserver permissions on a share on the same= memberserver. This appears not possible since Advanced server & apparently uses the GLOBAL group name.    * These commands illustrate this phenomenon:( ****************************************' \\MASTERDOMAIN\\CLUSTER_NODE> show vers   Advanced Server V7.3 for OpenVMS  / MASTER_DOMAIN> SET ADMIN /DOMAIN=\\MEMBERSERVER A %PWRK-S-ADMSET, now administering domain "\\MEMBERSERVER", server  "CLUSTER_NODE"    / Two groups "TEST" exist, both local and global:       + \\MEMBERSERVER\\CLUSTER_NODE> sh group test   " Groups in domain "\\MEMBERSERVER":  ) Group Name            Type    Description ; --------------------  ------  -----------------------------  TEST                  Local      Total of 1 group  A \\MEMBERSERVER\\CLUSTER_NODE> sh group test /domain=MASTER_DOMAIN   ! Groups in domain "MASTER_DOMAIN":   ) Group Name            Type    Description B --------------------  ------  ------------------------------------ TEST                  Global     Total of 1 group        9 Now we are giving the group TEST permissions on the share 
 adv_serv_tst. 4 Before giving permissions the share looks like this:      9 \\MEMBERSERVER\\CLUSTER_NODE> sh share adv_serv_tst /full   * Shared resources on server "CLUSTER_NODE":  $ Name          Type       DescriptionB ------------  ---------  ----------------------------------------- ADV_SERV_TST  Directory      Path: DIR:[ADV_SERV_TST]/     Connections:  Current: 1, Maximum: No limit      RMS file format: Stream B     Directory Permissions: System: RWED, Owner: RWED, Group: RWED,	 World: RE C     File Permissions: System: RWD, Owner: RWD, Group: RWD, World: R      Share Permissions:C         MASTER_DOMAIN\GROUP1                           Full Control      Total of 1 share      ) Now we are giving group TEST permissions: E (NOTE: we are administring the MEMBERSERVER, not the MASTERDOMAIN!!!)   F \\MEMBERSERVER\\CLUSTER_NODE> mod share adv_serv_tst /perm=(test=read)9 %PWRK-S-SHAREMOD, share "ADV_SERV_TST" modified on server  "CLUSTER_NODE"    9 \\MEMBERSERVER\\CLUSTER_NODE> sh share adv_serv_tst /full   * Shared resources on server "CLUSTER_NODE":  $ Name          Type       Description ------------  --------- 7 -------------------------------------------------------  ADV_SERV_TST  Directory      Path: DIR:[ADV_SERV_TST]/     Connections:  Current: 1, Maximum: No limit      RMS file format: Stream B     Directory Permissions: System: RWED, Owner: RWED, Group: RWED,	 World: RE C     File Permissions: System: RWD, Owner: RWD, Group: RWD, World: R      Share Permissions:F         MASTERDOMAIN\GROUP1                                       Full Control F         MASTERDOMAIN\TEST                                         Read             ^^^^^^^^'      WE WANT MEMBERSERVER\TEST HERE!!!!   D So, in the modify share command, apparently there is no qualifier toD specify that the group we want to use is the LOCAL group TEST on the
 MEMBERSERVER. ( ****************************************   Now the question is:? Does anyone know how to specify a LOCAL group in a modify share F command? Or any other way to tell the Advanced Server to use the LOCAL# group instead of the GLOBAL group??    E Oh, using UserManager on W2K domain controller is NOT an option here!   @ We already tried "MASTERDOMAIN\LOCAL_GROUP" constructions in the modify share command.       Help/advise greatly appreciated!  
 Onno Welling.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:55:47 +01001 From: "T.R." <tr303@notmail.com.replace.n.with.h>  Subject: Re: alpha generation 3 Message-ID: <W29y9.40978$I6.4130589@zwoll1.home.nl>   = "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> wrote in message ) news:usgds4hkeaqa52@corp.supernews.com... J > I do stuff like that on my Epson Stylus PHOTO 785EPX, attached (sigh) to myL > Windoze XP Pro box. I use card stock for matte finish, 4x6 photo paper forK > glossy. I have downloaded a bunch of logos from various web sites, mostly G > from the HP site. I use Paint Shop Pro to resize the image as needed.  > 9 > Email me if you want to talk about this in more detail.  > 
 > Regards, > Stuart Johnson > ssj152 AT charter DOT net  > E I've scrounged all of the internet, but I can't seem to find the logo L anywhere. I don't have an exact descrition of the logo cause I can't vividlyK recall it. It was a logo with the text 'Alpha generation' and it used to be  on a lot of Alpha systems....    Anyone got a link?   Thanks,    T    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 16:37:07 -0000 = From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>  Subject: Re: alpha generation 5 Message-ID: <20021106163707.6700.qmail@gacracker.org>   F On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, "T.R." <tr303@notmail.com.replace.n.with.h> wrote:   <snip>  F >I've scrounged all of the internet, but I can't seem to find the logoM >anywhere. I don't have an exact descrition of the logo cause I can't vividly L >recall it. It was a logo with the text 'Alpha generation' and it used to be >on a lot of Alpha systems.... >  >Anyone got a link?   & Just what you've been searching for...  + http://www.alpha-usr.gr.jp/images/alpha.gif   D http://openvms.compaq.co.jp/technical/migration/alpha_generation.gif  0 I also found an "AlphaPowered" one that I use...  2 http://althacker.cjb.net/graphics/alphapowered.jpg     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:57:04 GMT 3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) % Subject: Re: CDE$HOME_DEFAULTS empty? 0 Message-ID: <aqai0g$fe6$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  V In article <3DC7CEAE.8DC8D8E@yahoo.com>, John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com> writes:F >If the icon files can be opened with the icon editor, it's not likelyI >that file protections are causing the problem.  I see that Create Action E >on my system here also shows cde$home_defaults.  It is strange since B >there is no logical name for cde$home_defaults but much of CDE is	 >strange!  > G >I have several icon files in my [.dt.icons] directory and they do show H >with Find Set.  You need to double-click on the other icon folder namesI >such as cde$system_defaults:[appconfig.icons.c] to open them.  Does that * >produce an error or just a blank display?  M If I double-click on CDE$HOME_DEFAULTS or on CDE$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS I just get a K blank display with a single element in there "[Empty]". At least the system N directory contains lots of icon files. On the other hand, if I double-click onM CDE$USER_DEFAULTS I get an error message telling me that it couldn't open the F directory. This is correct as the directory in question doesn't exist.  L But I just realized that it is possible to enter the name "Mozilla" into theO "Enter Icon Filename" field of the "Find Set" dialog box and this will actually O find the icon. This is independent of the location of the icon file (home, user  or system).    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed,  6 Nov 02 10:35:02 +100 From: rok@nuk.uni-lj.si $ Subject: Re: Disk size specification& Message-ID: <3dc8fe6c$1@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>  H In article <aq7aem$sag$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: 9 -In article <00A167AD.E9AB4834@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, ' -winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: B -:In article <3dc6bc91$1@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>, rok@nuk.uni-lj.si writes: -:  -:> OpenVMS V7.3, Alpha and VAX. -  -  Which Alpha, and which VAX?  D  Obviously, Hoff, I didn't expect you to join this: AlphaServer DS10; and VAX 4000-600. But, really, I am after general solution.   > -  How are these disks connected to the OpenVMS VAX and to the -  OpenVMS Alpha systems?   =  $ SHOW CONFIGURATION or SHOW CONFIGURATION/CONTROLLERS would + come handy to prevent opening the boxes up.   G -:> I have two RA82 lookalike disks, but alas, they differ: one has one = -:>cylinder less than the other, they differ for 1120 blocks. D -:> Is there a way to tell VMS both disks are of the same size, as I -:>would like to shadow them.  - B -  The RA82-class disks are ancient and physically giant UDA-classF -  disk drives.  If these two lookalike disks are of a similar vintageG -  as the RA82 series, then I'm mildly surprised these widgets are even  -  still working.   A  No, VMS recognizes them as RA82s; they are 5.25 Fujitsu M2263SA. E Popular in NextStep cubes, as they were able to lowlevel format them   to gain some 30MB.  F -  But you will also want to check with the vendor or the organizationB -  supporting your hardware, as the details of how these disks areE -  configured are obviously known to the particular vendor's support.     Hunt in progress.  E -  As currently configured, these two disks cannot be shadowed by the G -  OpenVMS host-based shadowing package -- the block counts must match.   C  Agreed. But if they don't, it should be posible to tell VMS to use ! smaller count on the bigger disk. A  That's why I think INITIALIZE/SIZE=count would be so handy. With B disks growing bigger and cheaper it is no big deal for bigger diskA to sit in for smaller. Especially because disk geometry no longer  matters for shadowing.   G -  While disk geometry no longer matters for shadowing -- and there are F -  shadowing ECO kits with this capability available for older OpenVMSF -  releases -- the overall disk block counts must be identical for theE -  volumes to be shadowed using host-based volume shadowing software.   :  Is it really impossible to make bigger disk look smaller?  G -  There is work going on in this area for future OpenVMS releases, but , -  this information is current as of V7.3-1. - G -  And yes, I would encourage you to replace these RA82-lookalike disks ! -  with some more modern storage.   /  Hobbyist system. But you are right, of course.    Regards,  D Rok Vidmar                       Internet:  rok.vidmar@nuk.uni-lj.si; National and University Library  Phone:     +386 1 421 5461 ; Turjaska 1, SI-1000 Ljubljana    Fax:       +386 1 421 5464  Slovenia   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:27:51 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> $ Subject: Re: Disk size specification; Message-ID: <01KOJW8IDX9UA23BZ7@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   I > -:> I have two RA82 lookalike disks, but alas, they differ: one has one ? > -:>cylinder less than the other, they differ for 1120 blocks. F > -:> Is there a way to tell VMS both disks are of the same size, as I > -:>would like to shadow them.  > G > -  As currently configured, these two disks cannot be shadowed by the I > -  OpenVMS host-based shadowing package -- the block counts must match.  > D > Agreed. But if they don't, it should be posible to tell VMS to use# > smaller count on the bigger disk.  > B > That's why I think INITIALIZE/SIZE=count would be so handy. WithD > disks growing bigger and cheaper it is no big deal for bigger diskC > to sit in for smaller. Especially because disk geometry no longer  > matters for shadowing.  H I'm not thinking about doing it, but out of curiosity: could one shadow E a "real" disk with a virtual disk of the same size, i.e. a partition  E served up by an InfoServer?  (The real beauty of shadowing, mounting  G members on different nodes, won't work here, of course, since only one  9 node can have a WRITE connection to the InfoServer disk.)    ------------------------------  " Date: Wed,  6 Nov 02 17:36:44 +100 From: rok@nuk.uni-lj.si $ Subject: Re: Disk size specification$ Message-ID: <3dc96140@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>  : In Article <01KOJW8IDX9UA23BZ7@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>; Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:  > I >I'm not thinking about doing it, but out of curiosity: could one shadow  F >a "real" disk with a virtual disk of the same size, i.e. a partition F >served up by an InfoServer?  (The real beauty of shadowing, mounting H >members on different nodes, won't work here, of course, since only one : >node can have a WRITE connection to the InfoServer disk.)  A  Jap, that works nicely. Tried with real disk on VAX, virtual on  4 Alpha. Vitual-virtual works too (at least on Alpha).   Regards,  D Rok Vidmar                       Internet:  rok.vidmar@nuk.uni-lj.si; National and University Library  Phone:     +386 1 421 5461 ; Turjaska 1, SI-1000 Ljubljana    Fax:       +386 1 421 5464  Slovenia   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 08:08:53 -0600 ; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) ! Subject: Re: Don't Froget to Vote 3 Message-ID: <O0pyzn4ogL6D@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3DC811A8.648ABC12@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: K >> PS-- Encompass voting is open for the next 13 days, too. $90 members can O >> vote online. Coach class members (who are grandfathered in) must send fax or 	 >> email.  > K > Interesting. You'd think that the "coach class" members would be the ones N > forced to vote on-line in order o reduce processing costs, and those who payN > the big bucks would be given the more "luxury" options or voting "manually". > $ >> Four vacancies, three candidates. >  > Is Dale Coy on the ballot ?   ' No. And it's 3 vacancies, 4 candidates.   A "If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates"   1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  B         They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little?         temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- A         Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. 1759    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 08:17:34 -0600 ; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) , Subject: Re: Encompass Electioneering Begins3 Message-ID: <2nb3by37lYCT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <3dSx9.43901$bG.39372@rwcrnsc53>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:F > Snagged from www.openvms.org. Opinions are those of Ken Farmer. As a, > Director, I am not entitled to an opinion.  	 ROTFLMAO!   1 > Reminder: Vote for Encompass Board of Directors K > You only have two weeks to vote for Encompass BOD's. OpenVMS.org supports N > Clay Denton who really seems to have a grasp on the issues and what needs toM > be done to raise Encompass out of the ashes, not to mention nobody else has C > put in the same amount of volunteer effort as he has. In addition K > OpenVMS.org supports Kristi Browder. Both of the candidates will do their J > best, in our view, to fight the current bureaucracy that has bogged down' > Encompass for the past several years.   K Aren't both Clay and Kristi on the current "bogged down" board already? How 1 does reelecting the incumbants solve the problem?   K BTW, I know Clay and think he's a fine person. I don't know what's going on D with the board, but it clearly isn't representing my views or needs.  F OpenDECUS.org, if it existed, would support Dale E. Coy for the board.  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamys4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  B         They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little?         temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. --AA         Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. 1759e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:37:45 -0500) From: "Jeff Killeen" <KilleenJ@toast.net>?, Subject: Re: Encompass Electioneering Begins/ Message-ID: <usidqkknpof2b3@corp.supernews.com>v  L >Aren't both Clay and Kristi on the current "bogged down" board already? How2 >does reelecting the incumbants solve the problem?  H They are standing for election and not reelection.  They were previouslyH elected to the Board but neither is a member of the elected Board today.     --   Jeff Killeen   All Info: http://www.Killeen.cce  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------s  H "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD> wrote in message- news:2nb3by37lYCT@eisner.encompasserve.org...dA > In article <3dSx9.43901$bG.39372@rwcrnsc53>, "Terry C. Shannon"t  <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:H > > Snagged from www.openvms.org. Opinions are those of Ken Farmer. As a. > > Director, I am not entitled to an opinion. >e > ROTFLMAO!  > 3 > > Reminder: Vote for Encompass Board of DirectorsoD > > You only have two weeks to vote for Encompass BOD's. OpenVMS.org supportsG > > Clay Denton who really seems to have a grasp on the issues and whatl needs toK > > be done to raise Encompass out of the ashes, not to mention nobody else  hasME > > put in the same amount of volunteer effort as he has. In additionoG > > OpenVMS.org supports Kristi Browder. Both of the candidates will do  theirCL > > best, in our view, to fight the current bureaucracy that has bogged down) > > Encompass for the past several years.  >mI > Aren't both Clay and Kristi on the current "bogged down" board already?  How 3 > does reelecting the incumbants solve the problem?o >eJ > BTW, I know Clay and think he's a fine person. I don't know what's going onF > with the board, but it clearly isn't representing my views or needs. > H > OpenDECUS.org, if it existed, would support Dale E. Coy for the board. >r2 > 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy5 > Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/h >tD >         They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a littleA >         temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ---C >         Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. 1759    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:19:20 GMTC- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>@/ Subject: Re: FC-AL support on VMS, coming soon?f; Message-ID: <cN7y9.7476$6g.2727114@news1.news.adelphia.net>t   Malcolm Dunnett wrote:  / > "John E. Malmberg"  wrote in message news:...t > C >  Took me a while to get all the parts together, but I finally gotm > there today. >L >NI > >Neither the SRM console or the driver will autonegotiate, so you need  F > >to follow the instructions for the wwidmgr instructions to put the  > >adapter into loop mode. >R >_ >    My test configuration is: > I >      DS20E with latest(?) firmware ( firmware from the VMS 7.3-1 kit ).: >      VMS 7.3-1 >      KGPSA-B host adapterN >      Compaq 12 port fibre hubnH >      Dual controller RA8000 with firmware 8.3G ( I know it's ancient, F > but that's what the controllers came with - you pays your money and # > you takes your chances on Ebay ).t    F The RA8000 firmware may be too old.  I do not have access to anything % that is running that old of firmware.    > F >    I put the adapter in loop mode and set the port mode on the HSG80 > to LOOP_SOFT.o >eC >    I can see the disks from the console if I run wwidmgr, but VMSeH > doesn't see them. It does active the link ( I can see the orange lightF > go off on the hub when VMS boots and "SHOW CONNECTIONS" on the HSG80> > console shows the link to the DS20E as Online. I tried usingF > wwidmgr -quickset to define some of them for the console ( so they'dF > be visible there without running wwidmgr ). That worked, the consoleC > show devices dga1: through dga4:, but VMS still doesn't see them.- >-H >    Is there something I have to do to tell VMS about the disks? Is the( > "latent" support a bit too latent yet?  E I would not be surprised if there was a TIMA kit about the time that  I support is announced, but that should not stop you from booting for test  	 purposes.u  H When you boot, are you specifying both paths to the disk?  You can only  boot off of the active path.  A The wwidmgr -quickset will only configure one path.  You need to n1 manually configure the second path using wwidmgr.    So your boot command should be:5  % boot dga1.n.n.nnnn.n.,dga1.n.n.nnnn.nn  G You also may want to check to see that you have the latest firmware in n the KGPSA-B.  1 What did the console display on the boot attempt?b   -Johnu wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:41:24 -00002 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>$ Subject: Goldfax performance/support4 Message-ID: <aqbk54$rak$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>  J I've a couple of Goldfax performance issues - anyone out there still using4 it on VMS, or has it become a windoze only product ?  I 1) The postscript queue appears to have a memory leak, which causes it torI thrash after a few hundred jobs. Initially it works fine, ripping several L pages per second. Performance deteriorates however - I've seen it taking allI of a DS20E and around 1 minute/page. The workaround is to sit & watch it,,6 and stop and restart the queue every few hundred jobs.  L I opened a support call last December, and despite much kicking, never got aG solution. Now I'm declining to renew the contract (!!) and the folks atgK dpd.co.uk have stopped talking to me, so I guess the product is unsupported0I in the uk in practice, although there's still a willingness to take money - apparently. Is support any better elsewhere ?e  L 2) We just had another issue with it, this one traced to the goldfax_cleanup job.  K It does a "show queue/all/full 'name'/out='tempfile'" for each queue in itsoJ config file, generating about 1Mb of files for some 3000 queue entries. ItH then loops round in DCL, using f$search to find nearly 6000 files in itsL scratch directory, and searching the 1Mb of temporary files for each name in) turn, and deleting the file if not found.p  L Anyone know what it's trying to achieve, and whether there's a less resource hungry way to do it ? J We're using Goldfax 4.5-1 on VMS 7.3-1. They said 5.2 was 'coming soon' inJ September - I don't know what happened to 5.0 or 5.1, but they didn't send( them to me despite my having a contract.  L If anyone at DPD knows or cares about these problems, and would like to giveL me some service in return for support fees paid in the past, and convince meI that support in the future would be of acceptable quality and timeliness,n: then I'd still be prepared to consider paying for support.   Regards,
 Chris Sharman.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:16:46 GMTD. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)1 Subject: Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?E5 Message-ID: <OK7y9.162414$aa2.1956881@news.chello.at>X  o In article <_aXx9.200013$%h2.86904@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:nK >Since Tru64 is simply the organ donor to PH-UX for clustering and not much.J >else, I guess we can expect that HP's combined unix offering will be more >prone to attacks. >k > M >As previously suggested, HP would be far better off to simply take the HP-UXnH >brand name and stick it on top of Tru64 v6.0, and pay ISV's to port theM >PH-UX apps that don't already have Tru64 versions. They could easily developG0 >a porting guide from PH-UX to Tru64 technology.  I Naaa, that would allow them to survive, and that is not what they want !!.G They had months to consider what is the best and then decided to go they other way...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER.% Network and OpenVMS system specialistE E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 06:41:33 -06003- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)X1 Subject: Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?T3 Message-ID: <X$fX+pxeXT15@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  i In article <fmYx9.73994$dn3.2702319@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:bN > Dag gone it!  That teenager son of mine changed my newsgroup id again!  He'sL > been bugging me about a new PC for Christmas.  If he keeps this up I thinkN > he's gonna get one.  Thats probably been his plan all along.  Make it such a; > pain to share my PC that he forces me to buy him one.  :)h  G    Load linux on it for a couple week.s   It's somewhat harder to brakel    into than Windows.t   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:01:11 -0600l+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 1 Subject: Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?M3 Message-ID: <wyhoSx0E3DgW@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  f In article <OK7y9.162414$aa2.1956881@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:q > In article <_aXx9.200013$%h2.86904@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:sL >>Since Tru64 is simply the organ donor to PH-UX for clustering and not muchK >>else, I guess we can expect that HP's combined unix offering will be morel >>prone to attacks.) >> >>N >>As previously suggested, HP would be far better off to simply take the HP-UXI >>brand name and stick it on top of Tru64 v6.0, and pay ISV's to port thetN >>PH-UX apps that don't already have Tru64 versions. They could easily develop1 >>a porting guide from PH-UX to Tru64 technology.1 > K > Naaa, that would allow them to survive, and that is not what they want !!5I > They had months to consider what is the best and then decided to go thes > other way... >   C 	They made the obviously correct decision.  HP-UX has a much larger > 	installed base and more applications.  They are able to take G 	technically superiour Tru64 features (ADVfs, etc.) and swing that over  	to HP-UX.    ? 	It was/is far more important to keep the HP-UX customers happy  	from a business standpoint.   				Rob$   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:31:37 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)e1 Subject: Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?t+ Message-ID: <aqbg59$mmd$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>P  a In article <wyhoSx0E3DgW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:pg >In article <OK7y9.162414$aa2.1956881@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes: r >> In article <_aXx9.200013$%h2.86904@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > D >	They made the obviously correct decision.  HP-UX has a much larger? >	installed base and more applications.  They are able to take sH >	technically superiour Tru64 features (ADVfs, etc.) and swing that over
 >	to HP-UX.  m > @ >	It was/is far more important to keep the HP-UX customers happy >	from a business standpoint.P >F >O  M No they made the simplest decision. Applications are just applications. They -8 have to be ported anyway since your going to a new chip.L Using a more modern, more secure Kernel would have been the better solution.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University 0   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:06:57 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>1 Subject: Re: Here we go again...where is OpenVMS?82 Message-ID: <Es-dnf3DjumDo1SgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:wyhoSx0E3DgW@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...   @ > It was/is far more important to keep the HP-UX customers happy > from a business standpoint.   I And since a business that was generating $3 billion in annual revenue andlG growing faster than HP-UX is just small change to The New HP, there was@< clearly no reason to keep the Tru64 customers happy as well.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:28:09 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: RE: HP Advocacy Site 5 Message-ID: <Z86y9.161462$aa2.1939226@news.chello.at>   W In article <01C2800B.EF740970@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:aH >So, how about starting a VMS advertising issue, and dropping as many me >too's as we can on it?e  ' "Me too" reminds me of another problem.   C VMS needs a lot of advertizing but also needs a lot of improvementsxJ in features (some are ready, some are currently engineered, the rest stillL missing). Then and only then, VMS can be advertized with a lot of "Me too"'s but that would be not enough.P  I Who will want to buy a opsys which is 1) only a Me too 2) not the fastest0G in delivering the features and 3) still in doubt whether the owner willn not abandon it.p  I So, as I said a couple of years ago to a DEC VP, "fix the Me-too problem"aI where I meant that the ads have to underline the _advantages_ of VMS likehE clusters, security and stability. But at this time, VMS was not ready  to even be a Me-Too...   -- E Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistt E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:14:26 +0000o' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Sitei. Message-ID: <3DC8F992.2070308@nospamn.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagea% > news:3DC7EAF9.90F9EF80@127.0.0.1...b > * >>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >> >>> 8 >>>Many people regard RMS as being equivalent to a DBMS, >> >>...i >>% >>Some people confuse RMS with a DBMSi >  > I > But there's no obvious indication that Andrew is one of them, since hisPG > statement had to do with (limited, of course) equivalence rather than L > identity.  RMS is certainly a suitable facility to use for many tasks thatL > might otherwise be farmed out to a DBMS (though in many ways that might beJ > overkill), and in particular can be used through interfaces (e.g., ODBC,L > IIRC) similar to those used to access databases from various environments. >   L I don't think that RMS is the same as a DBMS it is more analagous to C-ISAM.  B But even at this low level its clearly the responsibility of RMS'sB supplier to provide ODBC or JDBC support for it. It is yet another@ example of HPQ not providing proper support for Java on OpenVMS.  @ One of OpenVMS's apparent selling points is RMS, but you have to? get a third party to provide support or code it yourself if youF- want to access RMS intelligently from Oracle.9  > Cotrast this with a vendor who supplies C-ISAM technology like9 CONNX, they clealry understand that providing appropriatet? interfaces from commonly used languages is their responsibility = and not something that you should abdicate responsibility to.t  . http://www.connx.com/products/connx-cisam.html   Regards  Andrew Harrison        > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:01:06 -0600c- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Sitey3 Message-ID: <jPloAi5B9mc8@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  X In article <3DC8F992.2070308@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > N > I don't think that RMS is the same as a DBMS it is more analagous to C-ISAM. > D > But even at this low level its clearly the responsibility of RMS'sD > supplier to provide ODBC or JDBC support for it. It is yet anotherB > example of HPQ not providing proper support for Java on OpenVMS. > B > One of OpenVMS's apparent selling points is RMS, but you have toA > get a third party to provide support or code it yourself if youl/ > want to access RMS intelligently from Oracle.)  F    Unfortunately we're used to it.  There's no simple interface to RMSG    features from C like there is from Fortran.  Now that's an extensiontG    to Fortran, but one that at least Solaris and HP-UX support in theirm    f77.i  H    We're lucky enough that you can access these features from any nativeG    language, but Java doesn't currently compile to native instructions.E  B    On the other hand C programmers haven't missed what they're notC    accustomed to.  No reason Java programmers should really miss it 
    either.  E    VMS has always simply used RMS to support the standard features of4E    the language, with IIRC the exception of the now defacto industry rD    standard Fortran extensions.  You want to program in C, you get CA    I/O, you want to program in Java, you get Java I/O, ...; neverb1    mind RMS is their underneath the language RTL.   F    But I do agree that a bevcoming-standard interface like JDBC should,    be supported by RMS if RMS is sufficient.  F    Anybody know RMS and JDBC well enough to know if RMS is sufficient?    r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:20:21 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy* Subject: Re: HP Advocacy SiteN. Message-ID: <3DC8FAF5.1080801@nospamn.sun.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >  > Bill Todd wrote: > 8 >> "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message& >> news:3DC7EAF9.90F9EF80@127.0.0.1... >>, >>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>>S >>>>: >>>> Many people regard RMS as being equivalent to a DBMS, >>>  >>>  >>> ...  >>> ' >>> Some people confuse RMS with a DBMS- >> >> >>J >> But there's no obvious indication that Andrew is one of them, since hisH >> statement had to do with (limited, of course) equivalence rather thanI >> identity.  RMS is certainly a suitable facility to use for many tasks o >> that-E >> might otherwise be farmed out to a DBMS (though in many ways that   >> might belK >> overkill), and in particular can be used through interfaces (e.g., ODBC,o@ >> IIRC) similar to those used to access databases from various  >> environments. >> > G > I don't think that RMS is the same as a DBMS it is more analagous to s	 > C-ISAM.e > D > But even at this low level its clearly the responsibility of RMS'sD > supplier to provide ODBC or JDBC support for it. It is yet anotherB > example of HPQ not providing proper support for Java on OpenVMS. > B > One of OpenVMS's apparent selling points is RMS, but you have toA > get a third party to provide support or code it yourself if youi/ > want to access RMS intelligently from Oracle.W >   , Woops that should have said Java not Oracle.  @ > Cotrast this with a vendor who supplies C-ISAM technology like; > CONNX, they clealry understand that providing appropriateNA > interfaces from commonly used languages is their responsibility ? > and not something that you should abdicate responsibility to.e > 0 > http://www.connx.com/products/connx-cisam.html > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >  >  > 	 >> - bill_ >> >> >> >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:31:02 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy- Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site-. Message-ID: <3DC943C6.6070004@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DC8F992.2070308@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > N >>I don't think that RMS is the same as a DBMS it is more analagous to C-ISAM. >>D >>But even at this low level its clearly the responsibility of RMS'sD >>supplier to provide ODBC or JDBC support for it. It is yet anotherB >>example of HPQ not providing proper support for Java on OpenVMS. >>B >>One of OpenVMS's apparent selling points is RMS, but you have toA >>get a third party to provide support or code it yourself if youm/ >>want to access RMS intelligently from Oracle.  >  > H >    Unfortunately we're used to it.  There's no simple interface to RMSI >    features from C like there is from Fortran.  Now that's an extensionnI >    to Fortran, but one that at least Solaris and HP-UX support in theira	 >    f77.h > J >    We're lucky enough that you can access these features from any nativeI >    language, but Java doesn't currently compile to native instructions.a > D >    On the other hand C programmers haven't missed what they're notE >    accustomed to.  No reason Java programmers should really miss it- >    either. >   , Well except John McLean who does miss it but+ who incorrectly attributes its absence to a.* failing in Java and not one that should be leveled squarely at HPQ's door.@   Regards. Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:00:30 -0000* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> Subject: RE: HP ServiceTM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3EA06@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>t   >John Eisenschmidt wrote:rF >> Of course, maybe the larger customers get that? Who knows. Anyway,  >> today's lesson: >iE >I had the exact same behavour when I worked at a bank. I saw how IBMeJ provided excellent service, >and for as much as I hated their brainwashingE tactics (back in early 1990s), I did admire their >presence and quicke
 response.  >' <snip> >iK >Digital's argument is that we were a small customer for Digital and didn'tc warrant all that lI >attention. Well, with that type of "lack of attention", they ensure thata( the bank would remain a >small customer. >nL >It is especially frustrating to experience this when you know that in otherK cities, Digital took >as good a care of their customers as IBM took care of D the bank here. So I knew that DIgital was >capable of great service.  J Just a little question - What happened to the 'Crash Kits' Digital used to use? When we wereiI Running a couple of V6510's if anything went wrong with them, a couple ofo flight cases would hH Turn up with all the relevant parts, so an engineer could do a one visit fix. These faded away K With Compaq, but even Compaq sent out almost a complete machine when we hadA a serious issue withH An AS1200. Are we now degenerating to a cut price service at Rolls Royce prices?i   Andrew Robinsons   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:18:28 +0100( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch>> Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It3 Message-ID: <aqb8bk$8b156$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message@ news:Gn9y9.1239$oRV.1177@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >  >oL > p.s. -Our EV8 processor will be released in 2 years and kill anything from > IBM, Sun, and Intel."L >e   Oi, not the programmers :-)$   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:08:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e> Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash ItF Message-ID: <Gn9y9.1239$oRV.1177@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messagee* news:01C284F8.99103FD0@sulfer.icius.com...E > Greg Cagle's got news server problems, so he asked me to post these I > demographics for HP World readership. (Blame any formatting problems on # > me, I've messed around with it.):l > - > MIS Mgr/IS Mgr/IT Mgr/Tech Mgr:       23.4%s% > Network Integrator/Systems Analyst,n >    Systems Administrator,a- >    Systems Mgr:                       20.8%-- > President/Owner/CEO:                  15.2%A- > IT Director:                          13.2% - > Marketing Mgr/ Sales Mgr/Sales/Staff:  6.9% - > Vice President:                        5.6% - > CIO/CTO:                               5.3%U- > Technical Consultant:                  4.6%o- > Software Developer/Programmer:         2.6% - > Database/Data Center Mgr:              1.7% - > CFO/COO:                               0.7%e >mJ > I like that distribution. The top four are people I'd have wanted to see > the article. Thanks, Greg.    I Now if that article could only be supported by marketing and advertising. K And wouldn't HP World magazine be a good place to start trumpeting how much- better VMS is than PH-UX?-  I The first ad doesn't have to be an elaborate on with lots of graphics and4= charts. A full page with some simple text along the lines of:     L "We bought Compaq because they had better products than we did, and the best of the lot is OpenVMS.  I We sincerely apologize to everyone we suckered into buying PH-UX over the-, years - it was the wrong thing to do to you.  K Now is the time to move to OpenVMS, - the operating system with 25 years of5L mission-critical commercial experience and the best choice for your business in the future.  7 OpenVMS and Alpha EV7 - the wining combination from HP.c  J p.s. -Our EV8 processor will be released in 2 years and kill anything from IBM, Sun, and Intel.">   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:25:43 -0000- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> > Subject: RE: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash ItE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB075@tahiti.tinuk.com>0   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20e > Sent: 06 November 2002 14:09 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComA@ > Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It >=20 >=20 >=206 > "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message=20, > news:01C284F8.99103FD0@sulfer.icius.com...J > > Greg Cagle's got news server problems, so he asked me to post these=20B > > demographics for HP World readership. (Blame any formatting=20
 > problems=20d   [cut...]   >=209 > OpenVMS and Alpha EV7 - the wining combination from HP.g# >                               ^^^h   Hope that was a typo John!   ;^Dl   Cheers   Steve S     A > p.s. -Our EV8 processor will be released in 2 years and kill=20l% > anything from IBM, Sun, and Intel."a >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:44:58 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t> Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash ItG Message-ID: <_Nay9.4423$YSz1.3144@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>c  8 "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message? news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB075@tahiti.tinuk.com...      > -----Original Message-----* > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] > Sent: 06 November 2002 14:09 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt@ > Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It >e >i > 3 > "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messages, > news:01C284F8.99103FD0@sulfer.icius.com...G > > Greg Cagle's got news server problems, so he asked me to post thesee? > > demographics for HP World readership. (Blame any formattingi
 > problems   [cut...]   >t9 > OpenVMS and Alpha EV7 - the wining combination from HP. # >                               ^^^d   Hope that was a typo John!    ( Yep......I spelled 'wining' incorrectly.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 08:05:27 -0600o; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)  Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 CDg3 Message-ID: <NI8Lk5ErcV2N@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <usdsbs8gm2l745@corp.supernews.com>, "Encompass - HP-ETS" <KilleenJ@toast.net> writes:eL >> Thank you very much! As I said, I'd be glad to pay a reasonable price for# >> one, but I can live with free...e >  > You do have to be a member  ! Been a member since about 1972...i  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy34 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  B         They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little?         temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. --gA         Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. 1759i   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 09:42:10 +0100 ' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber),( Subject: Re: Icons on Eisner...continued+ Message-ID: <cQXNfoM73qvn@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>r  [ In article <HsaHpJ1baIK$@rabbit>, sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:uQ > I just figured out the the "icons" (such as they are) appear in the URL window,b" > just in front of the URL itself. > L > I, too, am having a little trouble understanding their "purpose"; it looks > purely cosmetic to me. >     F Browsers on WINx systems use icons provided when they bookmark a page:O in the bookmark list, the standard "folder" icon is replaced by the sites icon.d  $ You are right, it's purely cosmetic.   --: Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Max-Planck-Institut Physik,Muenchen, : http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber                            ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:54:13 +0200$ From: "MikeR" <rechtman@tzora.co.il>( Subject: Re: Icons on Eisner...continued5 Message-ID: <aqb38s$8fboj$1@ID-103225.news.dfncis.de>e  : No real reaon - the icons are of no use outside 'cosmetic'9 I wanted to see if/how I could get them to work from VMS.- Sorry to have wasted bandwidth.a  
 Mike Rechtman2    4 "Joseph Huber" <huber@mppmu.mpg.de> wrote in message% news:cQXNfoM73qvn@vms.mppmu.mpg.de...6K > In article <HsaHpJ1baIK$@rabbit>, sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J.o Hamilton) writes:<K > > I just figured out the the "icons" (such as they are) appear in the URLn window, $ > > just in front of the URL itself. > >eH > > I, too, am having a little trouble understanding their "purpose"; it looksn > > purely cosmetic to me. > >  >dH > Browsers on WINx systems use icons provided when they bookmark a page:K > in the bookmark list, the standard "folder" icon is replaced by the sites  icon.  >t& > You are right, it's purely cosmetic. >  > --; > Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Max-Planck-Institut Physik,Muenchen, # > http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:28:35 +0000r' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1% Subject: Re: Immutable laws of the PC1. Message-ID: <3DC8EED3.1010205@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DC160DF.4040802@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 1 >>>>Nope but most systems have to maintain state.i >>>e >>>a! >>>   Oh god, then don't use NFS!8 >>>B >> >>Umm, why ? >>( >>Explain in one paragraph why NFS isn't" >>a sensible way of storing state. >> >  > 3 >    According to it's inventors, NFS is stateless.b >   / So explain why using a stateless protocol isn'tg any use for storing state.  / Of course if you are joking then you don't needt
 to bother.     > 2 >>Perhaps their idea of migrating is booting HP-UX1 >>on the new boxes and setting their IP addresseso/ >>and hostnames to be the same as the ones theyx2 >>were replacing. There seems precious little else >>that they could have done. >  > 2 >    They could migrate 80% of all the apps I use. >   + 80% of the apps or 80% of the application ?   0 One of the portal projects I am working on could. probably be hosted from a WEB and applications, server standpoint on IA-64/HP-UX however the. DBMS could not. So this would qualify for your+ 80% but would not constitute a migration ins most people sense of the word.   Regards  Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:03:24 -0600-- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m% Subject: Re: Immutable laws of the PCB3 Message-ID: <FiAg1PIgAYsm@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  X In article <3DC8EED3.1010205@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  > Bob Koehler wrote: >> a3 >>    They could migrate 80% of all the apps I use.m >> o > - > 80% of the apps or 80% of the application ?       80% of the apps.t  2 > One of the portal projects I am working on could0 > probably be hosted from a WEB and applications. > server standpoint on IA-64/HP-UX however the0 > DBMS could not. So this would qualify for your- > 80% but would not constitute a migration in   > most people sense of the word.  ?    The projects I'm working on very rarely need a DBMS.  It's at    different world.a   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Nov 2002 21:26:16 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: Immutable laws of the PC - Message-ID: <87lm46g77r.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e  Z > In article <3DC160DF.4040802@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:2 > >>>Nope but most systems have to maintain state.  D > > Explain in one paragraph why NFS isn't a sensible way of storing
 > > state.  3 >    According to it's inventors, NFS is stateless.u  B The NFS *protocol* is stateless. The server and client are both asD statefull as all hell. It is a bit more usefull than a 1 tape Turing machine, but not by much.i   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.F@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:10:45 -0800' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>d@ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek8 Message-ID: <20021106091045.14758f26.mathog@caltech.edu>   On 5 Nov 2002 15:33:35 -08008 jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) wrote:   > D > The speed of VMS when bench against UNIX does indicate that VMS is	 > slower.-    C VMS as a whole, no.  A compute bound job will run as fast under VMSrG as it will under Linux or Tru64 (subject to minor compiler variations).dL Under tremendous disk IO load (clusters with many many disks, all writing atI once) VMS also holds its own (I'm told - never had systems of that size).o  I In the typical workstation or small server case, where VMS is 20X slower  & writing files, it will break down intoF about 6x due to the lack of disk caching and 2-3x due to RMS overhead.E This can be demonstrated by running test programs on a RAMdisk on VMSt5 or forcing linux to flush memory cache to disk.  NoteeE that the VMS RAMdisk itself seems to be every bit as fast as any Unix L version.   VMS engineering is working on that 6x factor file caching factor.I Don't recall if they're working on the RMS bits.  This shows up most whenhH you work with simple C programs, which expect to be able to write/read aM stream of bytes and RMS gets in the way while offering very little in return.dG Ie, stream-lf has always been broken in various ways so that such filestE never played nice with, for instance, SORT, unless you told them "no,kC the record length isn't really 32767 bytes, even though that's what ) RMS thinks".  So while other parts of RMSoJ deserve the battleship description, stream-lf was definitely a compromise,( and one that wasn't all that successful.  D DCL pipes (last I looked, VMS 7.2-1) were hideously slow compared toN unix pipes and the speed degraded something like:  1/10^(factor * pipe stages)  B I also vaguely recall the network (ethernet) IO was slower on VMS.   Regards,   -- n David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:05:24 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy @ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek. Message-ID: <3DC94BD4.7000805@nospamn.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:e+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  > > >>I did notice that one, but the other two flags (which may be@ >>SPIKE-specific - my knowledge in that area is minimal) weren't@ >>present.  Of course, the fact that Alpha uses 3 feedback flags; >>rather than Itanic's one (IIRC) would penalize it for itscA >>additionally fine-grained compiler control (guess compiler flagr7 >>definitions should start being optimized for SPEC :).P >  > G > I suspect that SPEC baseline definitions are among the factors in the0E > definition of many copiler options across the range of compilers int+ > the set of those used on SPEC submittals.  > E > To pick another nit, the single feedback flag used for the Itanium2dF > submittals was a function of the HP-UX compiler and not the hardwareF > platform. That is to say it is the same interface used for PBO (whatG > HP has called feedback directed compilation) on PA-RISC systems goinglH > back however many years it has been around and legal to use in SPECcpu
 > benchmarks.  >  >   5 The issue isn't really to do with the use of feedbackT4 directed optimisation for SPEC it is used by most of the major vendors.  4 The issue is how much feedback directed optimisation# influences the result that you get.e  1 A number of people have suggested that Itanium isn3 much more dependant on it than any other volume CPUl2 to get good performance. This would be fine if you4 could guarantee that all ISV's would or could use it2 but many people have argued that feedback directed7 optimisation has no place in the BASE results precisely 0 because most ISV's either won't or can't use it.  : It would be interesting to see a SPECbase number published7 by HP/Intel without FDO, this would end the speculationo but is unlikely to happen.   regardsq Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:50:12 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek2 Message-ID: <mxmcnVIW6Jutp1SgXTWc3g@metrocast.net>  3 "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in messageh$ news:aq9fn4$ca4$1@web1.cup.hp.com...+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:-   ...-  F > >> > But as for other benchmarks: SPECweb99_SSL is nowhere nearly as( > >> > popular a benchmark as SPECweb99, > >>A > >> It would be good to define how you are measuring popularity.. >uH > > By the number and range of submissions, thus allowing comparisons toF > > be made against a considerably wider spectrum of competition (and,A > > in the process, providing more information from which to draw A > > inferences about possible correlations between implementatione > > features and performance). >cE > The range of CPU families covered by SPECweb99_SSL would seem to be  >i > Intel x86e  < 3 submissions (1 after this discussion started last summer).   > Alphaw  
 1 submission.    > SPARCs  
 1 submission.D   > POWERd  E 5 submissions:  3 after this discussion started, 2 withdrawn (I don'tt: remember them being present when this discussion started).  	 > PA-RISC    9 submissions.  
 > Itanium2   8 submissions.  I In other words, when this discussion began it had 1 Alpha result, 1 SPARC K result, 2 IA32 results, and the rest all PA-RISC and Itanic2:  not a reallyh! great spectrum to compare within.p   >.I > The range of CPU families covered by SPECweb99 submittals appears to be  >o > Intel x86,  ? 77 (I think - the exact number didn't seem all that important).n  	 > AMD x86i   6 submissions.   > Alpha    8 submissions.   > SPARCa  D 10 submissions (1 withdrawn), plus another 7 from Fujitsu (SPARC64).   > POWER    25 submissions.f  	 > PA-RISC    12 submissions (1 withdrawn).   K Plus apparently 4 more somewhere that I missed counting, since the total isn? allegedly 149:  rather a better basis for comparisons, I'd say.    >m> > (I may have left one or two out - the lists are from memory) >d? > Given that SPECweb99 was not obsoleted when SPECweb99_SSL wasoH > announced (as SPECweb96 appears to have done), thus giving overlap andF > forcing submittors to make zero-sum resource choices, and given thatE > the number of SPECweb99* results published in the first 7 months ofIH > each benchmark's life is roughly the same, and the non-trivial overlapB > in processor families, it would seem that the two benchmarks are6 > indeed of the same order of magnitude of popularity.  I Not by the definition you asked me to provide above:  the non-SSL version1L has about 6 times as many results to compare against (which still may be tooJ charitable, since when you factor out the Itanic2 and PA-RISC entries fromJ the SSL benchmark there remained only 4 tests - 1 Alpha, 1 SPARC, 2 IA32 -7 to compare Itanic2 against when this discussion began).r   >iG > Of course there are more _overall_ SPECweb99 submittals - it did haved > a two year headstart :)y  % And there you have it, in a nutshell.t   >o6 > >> Is PA-RISC in the form of the PA-8700 used in the= > >> SPECweb99_SSL results a chip with a large on-chip cache?o > = > > With 1.5 MB of data cache plus another 768 KB of I-cache?w2 > > Definitely, at least by comparison with Alpha. >aH > >> If so would then the POWER4 chip used in the IBM p630 SPECweb99_SSLB > >> results with its 1440KB on-chip cache also be a large on-chip > >> cache?t >s > > Yup. >-? > So there have been some comparisons of Itanium2 SPECweb99_SSL'E > performance against that of other CPUs with "large" on-chip caches.a= > That is what I wanted to drive at when asking about caches.   H And that was precisely the same point *I* was making about large on-chipJ caches:  in all cases, the platforms with relatively large (1 MB and over,G plus your newer 512 KB Xeon and 1.44 MB POWER4 examples) on-chip cachestG radically out-performed the platforms (Alpha and SPARC) with very smallgJ on-chip caches - so the fact that Itanic2, with by far the largest on-chipI cache, it at the top of the heap is not necessarily any reflection on the.2 performance capabilities of its core architecture.  I PA-RISC (1.5 MB D-cache plus 768 KB I-cache)  and the 1 MB Xeons achievedsE 78% and 77% (respectively) of the Itanic2 (3 MB cache) performance in-D equivalent configurations, while the Alpha (64 KB D-cache plus 64 KBG I-cache) and the SPARC (64 KB D-cache plus 32 KB I-cache) achieved onlyMI about 33% and 37% (respectively) of the Itanic2 performance in equivalent. configurations.1  I Are you really comfortable just asserting, "Yup - an 875 MHz PA-RISC corecL provides 2.38 times the performance of an 833 MHz Alpha core, a 1.6 GHz XeonL core performs 2.34 times as well as the Alpha core, and a 1 GHz Itanic2 coreK performs over 3 times as well as the Alpha core"?  Or is it more reasonableuL to look for another differentiating factor, such as on-chip cache size?  AndF isn't it a pity that the SSL benchmark isn't as popular as the non-SSLH benchmark, where we have the opportunity to compare, e.g., smaller-cacheI Pentiums against larger-cache Xeons, and very-small-cache POWER3s againsto large-cache POWER4s?  J However, one of the tests of a hypothesis is its ability to predict futureF observations.  And the recent appearance of POWER4 SSL results remainsF consistent with the hypothesis that larger on-chip caches have a majorL influence on SPECweb99_SSL performance:  with 1.44 MB of cache on the POWER4H chip, a 1 GHz model turns in nearly twice the performance of the 833 MHz Alpha.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:22:19 -0700h+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>a@ Subject: Re: Intel Conceding 64-Bit Desktops to IBM, AMD - eWeek' Message-ID: <3DC95DDB.4000207@MMaz.com>    Daryl Jones wrote:   >>Daryl, >>J >>you spent time with a nice history lesson but you neglected to focus on J >>the crux of my point - Alpha was abandoned because it was too expensive G >>to push to EV7 and beyond due to low chip volume.  There is no doubt 1I >>that VMS is porting to IA-64, that was never the point of the comment. tK >> The real question is that if AMD, and everyone one else, kick's Intel's cF >>butt hard enough with their X86 64-bit chipsets and forces Intel to H >>produce their own, the IA-64 running VMS will be left flapping in the H >>breeze by itself once again, an OS dependent on a low volume yet very  >>expensive chipset... >> >>     >> >Barry,  > C >I believe the chip that will not be produce is the EV8 chip due to E >being too expensive and low chip volume. The EV7 chip is schedule toiE >be released. Furhtermore, I think the other player not considered iswG >Microsoft and its future OS and software not being downward compatibleeF >to the x86 architecture. This would imply x86 64-bit chipset will notD >be a player. This could mean Microsoft is planning to use the IA-64@ >chip rather than x86 64-bit chip. Thus making IA-64 VMS viable,? >however, VMS must be marketed more than it is or none of theseV* >discussion will have a lot meaning to it. >c >  e > I Yeap, I know EV8 was canned, most folks do, but the bitching moaning and g complaining started with EV7.   A What is news to me, and I follow IT news father closely, is that hG Microsoft is ditching the x86 architecture.  I would really appreciate eE your references on that as obviously other folks, like AMD, must not jF know this either, otherwise they too would be running down a dead-end  road, as you imply.     @ If what you claim is in fact more than gossip, then you have an H excellent point but if there is more fiction than fact, then your point F holds no water because without Microsoft standing behind IA-64 on the F desktop and to much extent the server arena, the IA-64 will not reach ! critical mass for market share.     E Well hey, wait a minute, did I miss something again?  How many times  H must Itanium on the desktop flop and flounder like a dying fish, before G it is considered dead?  If in fact Windoze will only run on IA-64, and aD looses x86 support, that would too also imply that all applications F would be nixed with the same ailment.  With Microsoft just announcing I (look at this weeks eWeek), that Office 11 will not run on any Win 9X/ME iG system, they (MS) are just lining up friends all over who are dying to  G upgrade all of their desktops and applications.  Gee, that sounds like  I just a brilliance idea, not only is what you imply that MS is obsoleting  C all of their products on the x86, but by default everyone else's.  s  B I suspect that if there is even a remote element of truth to your D claims, that the revolt initiated by these actions would generate a / backlash that even MS would not wish to face....   Regards,   BarryS   --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:27:38 +0100, From: "Peter Grevel" <p.grevel@inter.nl.net>! Subject: IP-SNMP Receiver problem27 Message-ID: <3dc9427a$0$234$19deed1b@news.inter.NL.net>0  H I want to catch an SNMP-Trap by the default TCPIP SNMP-Trapreceiver on aL specific port. That is not a problem. But the problem is after receiving the& trap I wat to continue my DCL-Program.  4 The default TCPIP SNMP-Trapreceiver stays listening.  L Is there a way to start the receiver for listen to just 1 trap only and then stop listening?i  9 The result of the trap is at this moment not so importantk Please give me some suggestionse   Thanks in advance,   Peter Grevel   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:51:31 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>a% Subject: Re: looking for a DSSI cable $ Message-ID: <3dc96509$1@news.si.com>  I >I've recently acquired a 4000/500 system and I'd like to build a clusteryJ >configuration with my other 4000 system (a 4000/600) so I'm looking for a9 >BC21M-xx cable (the one with two Pin Socket connectors).u  A The last time I needed one, I bought it from Great Lakes Computers (http://www.glcomp.com/).e --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comr= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevents< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:00:42 GMTt5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> . Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS2 Message-ID: <u8ay9.17$vq3.445592@news.cpqcorp.net>  G The LK463 is not yet shipping.  But we do have production prototypes insE house.  It is a VT400 layout keyboard.  This keyboard will eventually2J replace all the VT400-style PS2 keyboards (there is a dongle that connectsI it to a PS2 port).  It will effectively emulate the LK411 (which replaced.L the LK450).  So, if the LK411 worked with the LK411 driver on a PC, I expectL that the LK463 will also work.  I know of no plans for anyone to write a newL PC driver for it (VMS certainly does not have the expertise to start writingL PC drivers).  In USB mode, the keyboard sends the standard USB key codes, soJ I would "hope" that it would simply work when plugged into a PC with a USB keyboard connection.      D Shane Smith wrote in message <01C284E6.3FD36BC0@sulfer.icius.com>...I >What layout is the LK463? If it's a VT style layout, I want one and sometH >PC drivers. In fact, I want several. I was starting to worry about whatI >I'd do when the PS2 ports went away on the PCs and I couldn't plug in my  >stash of LK450s.v >o >Shane >n >-----Original Message-----t) >From: munk@home.nl [mailto:munk@home.nl]s) >Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 3:41 PMo >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMSV >h >a >Yes and No. > F >There is support for a scrolling USB mouse in VMS 7.3-1. However thisA >only works (in DecWindows) in conjunction with USB keyboard (thes- >LK463), and that will go on sale in January.I > A >And of course you will need a USB card. Depending on the type of 9 >workstation you have, that can bring some more problems.g > : >So if you can tell us some more about your workstation ?? >pE >Furthermore the USB stuf on VMS  is very much in development, so you * >will get many changes in the near future. >-F >Oh yes, and get a Logitech mouse. It has a third button function when >you press the wheel.U >  >sD >On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:44:01 +0900, "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> >wrote:. >.K >>Does anyone knows  if there are any mouse (like PC that has a scroller in I >>the middle) that can be plug into the Alpha workstation running OpenVMSAJ >>7.2-1.  It would be ideal if I can find a mouse that works just like the one  >>use on a PC.C >>Any advices would be greatly appreciated or guide me in the right 
 direction. >>Thank you in advance.i >> >> >    ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:51:33 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis). Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS. Message-ID: <aqbdq5$l81$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes in article <u8ay9.17$vq3.445592@news.cpqcorp.net> dated Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:00:42 GMT:a >eH >The LK463 is not yet shipping.  But we do have production prototypes inF >house.  It is a VT400 layout keyboard.  This keyboard will eventuallyK >replace all the VT400-style PS2 keyboards (there is a dongle that connects J >it to a PS2 port).  It will effectively emulate the LK411 (which replacedM >the LK450).  So, if the LK411 worked with the LK411 driver on a PC, I expectnM >that the LK463 will also work.  I know of no plans for anyone to write a newnM >PC driver for it (VMS certainly does not have the expertise to start writingtM >PC drivers).  In USB mode, the keyboard sends the standard USB key codes, so K >I would "hope" that it would simply work when plugged into a PC with a USBe >keyboard connection.M  L That's awesome, Fred.  Does that mean that I can plug a mac keyboard and USBH scroll mouse into my 500au, which is already running 7.3-1?  I guess I'm# gonna need a KVM switch with USB...e  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgm> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:50:02 +0100  From: munk@home.nl. Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS8 Message-ID: <p9eisukdjja9tti4g53k0kdp820m5ohh2q@4ax.com>  3 On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:00:42 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge":$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:   >nH >The LK463 is not yet shipping.  But we do have production prototypes inF >house.  It is a VT400 layout keyboard.  This keyboard will eventuallyK >replace all the VT400-style PS2 keyboards (there is a dongle that connectsrJ >it to a PS2 port).  It will effectively emulate the LK411 (which replacedM >the LK450).  So, if the LK411 worked with the LK411 driver on a PC, I expecteM >that the LK463 will also work.  I know of no plans for anyone to write a new M >PC driver for it (VMS certainly does not have the expertise to start writing  >PC drivers).   B Mmmmmm. I seem to remember that HPQ also sells Wintel systems, andE even produces drivers & software for those boxes. Perhaps the Product C Manager VMS Keyboards could have a talk with the Product Manager PCaF Keyboards to figure out if one of the Billybox programmers could write such a driver ?? e    @ > In USB mode, the keyboard sends the standard USB key codes, soK >I would "hope" that it would simply work when plugged into a PC with a USBn >keyboard connection.  >  >s >JE >Shane Smith wrote in message <01C284E6.3FD36BC0@sulfer.icius.com>... J >>What layout is the LK463? If it's a VT style layout, I want one and someI >>PC drivers. In fact, I want several. I was starting to worry about whatoJ >>I'd do when the PS2 ports went away on the PCs and I couldn't plug in my >>stash of LK450s. >> >>Shane  >> >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: munk@home.nl [mailto:munk@home.nl]* >>Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 3:41 PM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 >>Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS >> >>
 >>Yes and No.t >>G >>There is support for a scrolling USB mouse in VMS 7.3-1. However thisoB >>only works (in DecWindows) in conjunction with USB keyboard (the. >>LK463), and that will go on sale in January. >>B >>And of course you will need a USB card. Depending on the type of: >>workstation you have, that can bring some more problems. >>; >>So if you can tell us some more about your workstation ??t >>F >>Furthermore the USB stuf on VMS  is very much in development, so you+ >>will get many changes in the near future.  >>G >>Oh yes, and get a Logitech mouse. It has a third button function whenh >>you press the wheel. >> >>E >>On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:44:01 +0900, "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net>n >>wrote: >>L >>>Does anyone knows  if there are any mouse (like PC that has a scroller inJ >>>the middle) that can be plug into the Alpha workstation running OpenVMSK >>>7.2-1.  It would be ideal if I can find a mouse that works just like theu >one >>>use on a PC.vD >>>Any advices would be greatly appreciated or guide me in the right >direction., >>>Thank you in advance. >>>t >>>m >> >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:09:11 +0100g From: munk@home.nl. Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS8 Message-ID: <3reisu49hvc68fjn3np5k0easlq4u6l6m0@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:51:33 +0000 (UTC), lewis@mazda.mitre.org (KeithH A. Lewis) wrote:   >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes in article <u8ay9.17$vq3.445592@news.cpqcorp.net> dated Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:00:42 GMT: >>I >>The LK463 is not yet shipping.  But we do have production prototypes in G >>house.  It is a VT400 layout keyboard.  This keyboard will eventually L >>replace all the VT400-style PS2 keyboards (there is a dongle that connectsK >>it to a PS2 port).  It will effectively emulate the LK411 (which replacedcN >>the LK450).  So, if the LK411 worked with the LK411 driver on a PC, I expectN >>that the LK463 will also work.  I know of no plans for anyone to write a newN >>PC driver for it (VMS certainly does not have the expertise to start writingN >>PC drivers).  In USB mode, the keyboard sends the standard USB key codes, soL >>I would "hope" that it would simply work when plugged into a PC with a USB >>keyboard connection. > M >That's awesome, Fred.  Does that mean that I can plug a mac keyboard and USBsI >scroll mouse into my 500au, which is already running 7.3-1?  I guess I'm $ >gonna need a KVM switch with USB...  E Well, there is the little problem of a supported USB card. I have one E in my PWS500au that uses the supported Lucent/Agere USS344 chip (look D in sys$system:sys$config.dat). So you need that first. Then you haveB to edit sys$config.dat and comment out everything relating to thisF card. If you don't do that your system will not boot. By the way, yourE 7.3-1 CD will not boot either with the card installed. This has to doiE with some design faults in the PWS hardware.  Later on in the startuplD you will have to tell VMS to start the driver for the USB cards, and how to configure the ports.n  F And since the firmware of the PWS does not know USB (or at least  thisE USB card), it will not see the keyboard and mouse. So the only way ito9 will boot is when you keep the normal keyboard connected.h  E If you want to know more, send me an e-mail, and I will send you somey, command files that will startup the drivers.  @ And in case you have a PWS with built-in USB ports, they are not supported. u     >-, >--Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org? >The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:48:05 GMTe1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom>p. Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <3DC94762.5012B114@hp.com.doom>e   >iN > That's awesome, Fred.  Does that mean that I can plug a mac keyboard and USBJ > scroll mouse into my 500au, which is already running 7.3-1?  I guess I'm% > gonna need a KVM switch with USB...  >l- > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgs@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.  S    I am not Fred but I will answer this.  The USB port on any of the existing AlphatL boxes are not supported by the O.S.  So you cannot plug in and use them.  WeO have no plans to reach back and try and get the USB controllers in the existingm boxes working.  N     When you get a Marvel system you will be able to plug you Mac USB KeyboardP and Scroll mouse in.  If they conform to the USB standard for Keyboards and MiceH OpenVMS will recognize them and work with them.  That does not mean thatO DECwindows will support any extra keys or buttons they might have.  Nor will it R automically map things.  Fred will correct me if I have this wrong.  But I believeJ there is a a key mapping capability in the USB DECwindows keyboard driver.  N      If you really want to add USB to an existing Alpha system with a open PCI> slot Dirk Munk has posted notes on how to do this in the past.     Forrest Kenney OpenVMS USB project leader   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:47:40 GMTS5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e. Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <0Bcy9.37$BO3.1744917@news.cpqcorp.net>i  ! munk@home.nl wrote in message ...e4 >On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:00:42 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"% ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  >o >>I >>The LK463 is not yet shipping.  But we do have production prototypes insG >>house.  It is a VT400 layout keyboard.  This keyboard will eventually L >>replace all the VT400-style PS2 keyboards (there is a dongle that connectsK >>it to a PS2 port).  It will effectively emulate the LK411 (which replacedhG >>the LK450).  So, if the LK411 worked with the LK411 driver on a PC, Il expectJ >>that the LK463 will also work.  I know of no plans for anyone to write a newtF >>PC driver for it (VMS certainly does not have the expertise to start writing- >>PC drivers). > C >Mmmmmm. I seem to remember that HPQ also sells Wintel systems, andvF >even produces drivers & software for those boxes. Perhaps the ProductD >Manager VMS Keyboards could have a talk with the Product Manager PCG >Keyboards to figure out if one of the Billybox programmers could write> >such a driver ??h >s  I The keyboard is being designed and built excusively for VMS.  Sure, it'lltJ work on Tru64 - but they don't really care.  If you can give me the volumeI estimate for the number of PC's that will be sold with this keyboard, I'mdE sure we can talk to the PC group about creating a driver for it. They B certainly won't do the work unless it is a profitable thing to do.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:01:00 GMTR5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>-. Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <wNcy9.41$oU3.1917078@news.cpqcorp.net>o   1)  What Dirk/Forrest said  H 2) Most USB keyboard today can operate as a PS2 or USB keyboard with theI     appropriate "dongle"  I've seem these as PS2->USB and USB->PS2.  ThisrE     is purely a KB feature.  I have no idea if Mac keyboard have this  capability.   B 3) The KB and mouse for VMS are pretty much vanilla USB.  The only
 additionalK      thing is that the VMS keyboard has a unique device ID, which allows mes to knows      that it is a VMS keyboard.g  K 4) I have provided a QIO that will allow you to write a program to downloadc adL     keyboard mapping table.  If the KB has a unique ID that matches, it will be usedtH     instead of the default.  You can also override the default.  If/when someone has-K     a system with USB, and an alternate KB - I'll be happy to finish up andR share aa1     little utility program to download the table.i    B Forrest Kenney wrote in message <3DC94762.5012B114@hp.com.doom>... >>K >> That's awesome, Fred.  Does that mean that I can plug a mac keyboard andd USBtK >> scroll mouse into my 500au, which is already running 7.3-1?  I guess I'm & >> gonna need a KVM switch with USB... >>. >> --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgA >> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.( >dE >   I am not Fred but I will answer this.  The USB port on any of theu existing AlphaI >boxes are not supported by the O.S.  So you cannot plug in and use them.  WeG >have no plans to reach back and try and get the USB controllers in then existing >boxes working.. > F >    When you get a Marvel system you will be able to plug you Mac USB KeyboardL >and Scroll mouse in.  If they conform to the USB standard for Keyboards and MiceI >OpenVMS will recognize them and work with them.  That does not mean thateH >DECwindows will support any extra keys or buttons they might have.  Nor will it-K >automically map things.  Fred will correct me if I have this wrong.  But I  believerK >there is a a key mapping capability in the USB DECwindows keyboard driver.  >CK >     If you really want to add USB to an existing Alpha system with a open4 PCI2? >slot Dirk Munk has posted notes on how to do this in the past.  >> >e >Forrest Kenney  >OpenVMS USB project leadere >>   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 11:25:14 -0600>- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s. Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <py34irD+uanG@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  j In article <u8ay9.17$vq3.445592@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > I > The LK463 is not yet shipping.  But we do have production prototypes iniG > house.  It is a VT400 layout keyboard.  This keyboard will eventuallyaL > replace all the VT400-style PS2 keyboards (there is a dongle that connectsK > it to a PS2 port).  It will effectively emulate the LK411 (which replaced 
 > the LK450).   6 So how do all of these layouts differ from the LK461 ?  A (The latest LK461 I bought has a Euro symbol and an RSI warning.)t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:52:26 GMTt1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom> . Subject: Re: mouse with a scroller for OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <3DC96486.DBF807B7@hp.com.doom>r   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  l > In article <u8ay9.17$vq3.445592@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > >:K > > The LK463 is not yet shipping.  But we do have production prototypes ingI > > house.  It is a VT400 layout keyboard.  This keyboard will eventuallyCN > > replace all the VT400-style PS2 keyboards (there is a dongle that connectsM > > it to a PS2 port).  It will effectively emulate the LK411 (which replaced  > > the LK450).h >p8 > So how do all of these layouts differ from the LK461 ? > C > (The latest LK461 I bought has a Euro symbol and an RSI warning.)n  L     The LK463 layout is the same as the LK461.  The difference is that is itG black and can operate as USB device or a PS2.  By default it is USB andrA you plug a little dongle on that tells it to operate in PS2 mode.        Forrest Kenney OpenVMS development-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 01:17:21 -0800o* From: mchaignon@lucent.com (marc chaignon)A Subject: PGFLQUOTA increase on Alpha System VMS with java processm= Message-ID: <df8157c4.0211060117.1c3019e6@posting.google.com>a   My configuration : 2! platform : DEC AXPVMS OpenVMS 7.3S% Operating system : DEC AXPVMS VMS 7.3 $ process write in java with JDK 1.3.15 This process communicates with Corba with JACORB V1.4 , I execute my java process with this option : -Xgc:compacting ! for garbage collector activation.o> PGFLQUOTA max value is fixed at 600 000 for this java process.   My problem :D The pgflquota of this process java increase indefinitely until 100%,> when the process is running. This quota increase mainly when a& deconnection/connection corba arrived.9 In this java process, I trace the free memory with this : , java.lang.Runtime.getRuntime().freeMemory();. This free memory varries between 25 and 29 Mo.* Why this pgflquota increase indefinitely ?   Thank you for your help.  
 Bests regardsy  
 Marc Chaignon- Lucent Technologies France mchaignon@lucent.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:32:52 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>" Subject: Re: Remote Console access+ Message-ID: <aqb5m5$q0c@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   a "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:87pttig975.fsf@prep.synonet.com...e  F > The really nice thing about LAT, is that it is idiot resistant. TheyB > can screw you over, but they have to work at it harder. DO theseG > wonders of modern mentation have any *tested* *secure* recomendationsr$ > for replacing the LAT/TS consoles?  K Well picking something at random: http://www.ute.de/vts_terminal_server.htmhL If you're just going to slap a remote Telnet box on the public network, thatL is making life easy for attackers. However, things have moved on, and if youI care about security you don't provide remote console access in the clear.e   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Nov 2002 20:43:26 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>" Subject: Re: Remote Console access- Message-ID: <87pttig975.fsf@prep.synonet.com>S  0 Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:  B > I've got a couple ES40s at a remote site. Along with HSJ50s, andC > HSG80s.  I want to be able to remotely access the serial ports on - > these systems.  That way, do shutdowns etc.e  E > Currently, I've got an old copy of PCM (Polycenter Console Manager)l3 > running. But our network guys think that LAT is a 5 > four-letter-word. And DECserver are evil incarnate.t  D > So I want to get rid of that and get a TCP/IP based solution... At# > least similar to what I have now.o  C SO you want a `standard' system that enables any 10yo to be able toeG get at your consoles.... RIIIGGHHTT. I can see you have such wonderfulli network people. not.  D The really nice thing about LAT, is that it is idiot resistant. They@ can screw you over, but they have to work at it harder. DO theseE wonders of modern mentation have any *tested* *secure* recomendationsnC for replacing the LAT/TS consoles? And is it their budget that willt+ procure it, and fix it when it screws up...-     -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.g@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:39:17 +0000u From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>e Subject: Re: Show Configurationc) Message-ID: <3DC91B86.3CAEE200@Omond.net>>   rok@nuk.uni-lj.si wrote:  4 > In Article <2e4ZhrGfRzAa@eisner.encompasserve.org>1 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >p	 > > [...]E > >   What I really want are:g > >f1 > >      show process/quota=(authorized,consumed)s; > >      show process/privileges=(authorized,current,image)n/ > >      show device/blocks=(free,used,maximum)e) > >      show device/files/process=<name>d7 > >      show device/files/process=<pid>/identificationoF > >      show users/remote_node=<name or address>/protocol=<transport> >r >  What about: >s > $ show configuration >o. > listing processors, controllers, units ... ?   (admittedly Alpha only:)  
 $ anal/sys SDA> clue config   or   SDA> clue frue  # Isn't that what you're asking for ?   	 Roy Omonde Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 05:49:35 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nJ Subject: Re: Update on the OpenVMS Advanced technical bootcamp (symposium)3 Message-ID: <s8HcHi73Z54I@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  q In article <857e9e41.0211051903.3e7f39bb@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:sE > Folks this is in reply to the questions you have sent me asking howh > the symposium is going.u  E > Warren is refreshing the agenda/website tonight so there is more onu7 > the website which is right off the OpenVMS home page.H  K Thanks to you for the update and to Warren for clearly marking the revision.C dates on the link list entitled "additional symposium information".a8 It is really nice to know _which_ sections have changed.  & I would point out, however, that while  > 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/symposium/symposium_agenda.html  E now shows Thursday as ending at 5:45 pm, the section entitled "flighteF scheduling information" (or "Flight Scheduling Information", for those( of us who are not HP (hp) employees), on  3 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/symposium/index.htmln  B still says Thursday ends at 4:00 pm (the original planned ending).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:23:24 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> J Subject: Re: Update on the OpenVMS Advanced technical bootcamp (symposium)* Message-ID: <aqbc5g$jo6$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   JF,   J Thank you for your concern, I am ok, still going to therapy and by the endI of the day I sore from typing.  Other than then I am fine.  Excited aboute the symposium.  K The engineers never give me problems, neither do customers, field people orn: partners.  Except for an occasional practial joke that is!  
 Warm Regards,i sue   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagew) news:3DC88F8A.DF7CB6E9@vl.videotron.ca...s > Sue, how are you feeling ? >.9 > Have the VMS engineers given you *any* trouble lately ?i   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 06:44:18 -0600u- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e/ Subject: Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>) 3 Message-ID: <S+bTEx$2AEj0@eisner.encompasserve.org>U  b In article <3DC8854B.FCE086BE@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Daryl Jones wrote:C >> in 1980: "The VAX-11 instruction set currently includes over 240uB >> instructions and over 20 formats for operand specifiers, called >> addressing modes."4 > P > In terms of instruction decoding, were instructions one byte ? That would make! > a maximum of 256 instructions. a  G    No.  Instructions were variable length and opcodes alone were one ora    two byte.  I >> more RISC instruction. When I refer to 250,000 instruction set. I meanmE >> that the VAX-11 instruction set have hard wire in the chip 250,000S >> RISC instruction into it. > P > That is hard to believe.  Would this not really mean that when you combine theN > "lines of microcode" of each of the 240   opcodes, you end up with a programH > consisting of over 250,000 lines of microcode ? (as opposed to 250,000  > different risc instructions ?)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:15:38 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>) 2 Message-ID: <DeadnSD3Ze673VSgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagee) news:3DC8854B.FCE086BE@vl.videotron.ca...  > Daryl Jones wrote:   ...   J > > more RISC instruction. When I refer to 250,000 instruction set. I meanF > > that the VAX-11 instruction set have hard wire in the chip 250,000 > > RISC instruction into it.b >tL > That is hard to believe.  Would this not really mean that when you combine theeF > "lines of microcode" of each of the 240   opcodes, you end up with a program9H > consisting of over 250,000 lines of microcode ? (as opposed to 250,000  > different risc instructions ?)  I Daryl, to be charitable, is clearly clueless.  Don't worry too much aboutw$ anything he says that seems strange.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 09:59:06 -0800r7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)v/ Subject: Re: VAX instruction set (was:: <None>)'= Message-ID: <8a646952.0211060959.5435200e@posting.google.com>   g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DC8854B.FCE086BE@vl.videotron.ca>...  > Daryl Jones wrote:D > > in 1980: "The VAX-11 instruction set currently includes over 240C > > instructions and over 20 formats for operand specifiers, calledE > > addressing modes." > P > In terms of instruction decoding, were instructions one byte ? That would make! > a maximum of 256 instructions. , > J > > more RISC instruction. When I refer to 250,000 instruction set. I meanF > > that the VAX-11 instruction set have hard wire in the chip 250,000 > > RISC instruction into it.a > P > That is hard to believe.  Would this not really mean that when you combine theN > "lines of microcode" of each of the 240   opcodes, you end up with a programH > consisting of over 250,000 lines of microcode ? (as opposed to 250,000  > different risc instructions ?)  	 JF Mezei,7  B Your confusing Microcode with Macrocode. If the instruction is notA part of the chip design (Microcode), then it must executed in theMD Macrocode. For example: the MicroVAX chip inplemented 175 of the 304D VAX instructions and 6 of the 14 data types. The H floating point isF in the Microcode on the VAX-11 processor but not in the MicroVAX, thus$ it was implemented in the Macrocode.   Daryl Jonesn   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 09:22:04 -0800 & From: aaron.d.mullens@lmco.com (Aaron)D Subject: VAX Macro Porting Problems with the stack frame library SF$= Message-ID: <99c3a525.0211060922.7f427a14@posting.google.com>n  ? I am trying to port Vax Macro to an Alpha and I have run into aoE problem.   The stack frame library (SF$) is not supported on an AlphaeA and I cannot find any documentation here or on the net about SF$.m  3 I need to port the following functions to an Alpha:p    SF$L_SAVE_FPj    SF$L_SAVE_PCS    SF$L_SAVE_APo    SF$L_SAVE_REGSM    SF$V_SAVE_MASKO    SF$S_SAVE_MASK   D I have nothing to tell me what these functions do.  The only thing IF have found is that SF$ is not supported on the Alpha.  I was wonderingE if there is anybody out there that can give me any information on howtE these functions work and how to port code that uses them to an Alpha..   Thanks,z Aaron    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:37:12 GMTy" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGH Subject: Re: VAX Macro Porting Problems with the stack frame library SF$0 Message-ID: <00A16919.B41BA03B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <99c3a525.0211060922.7f427a14@posting.google.com>, aaron.d.mullens@lmco.com (Aaron) writes:@ >I am trying to port Vax Macro to an Alpha and I have run into aF >problem.   The stack frame library (SF$) is not supported on an AlphaB >and I cannot find any documentation here or on the net about SF$. >p4 >I need to port the following functions to an Alpha: >   SF$L_SAVE_FP >   SF$L_SAVE_PC >   SF$L_SAVE_AP >   SF$L_SAVE_REGS >   SF$V_SAVE_MASK >   SF$S_SAVE_MASK > E >I have nothing to tell me what these functions do.  The only thing IiG >have found is that SF$ is not supported on the Alpha.  I was wonderingkF >if there is anybody out there that can give me any information on howF >these functions work and how to port code that uses them to an Alpha.   Yes.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMu             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" S   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 11:33:14 -0600h- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).H Subject: Re: VAX Macro Porting Problems with the stack frame library SF$3 Message-ID: <y767bWJXh462@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  f In article <99c3a525.0211060922.7f427a14@posting.google.com>, aaron.d.mullens@lmco.com (Aaron) writes:A > I am trying to port Vax Macro to an Alpha and I have run into asG > problem.   The stack frame library (SF$) is not supported on an AlphaoC > and I cannot find any documentation here or on the net about SF$.  > 5 > I need to port the following functions to an Alpha:x >    SF$L_SAVE_FPf >    SF$L_SAVE_PCi >    SF$L_SAVE_APy >    SF$L_SAVE_REGSw >    SF$V_SAVE_MASKM >    SF$S_SAVE_MASKi  E    These are not functions.  They are symbols for stack offsets whichwF    are VAX specific.  They do not apply to Alpha.  Translation of thisB    code requires knowing both the VAX and Alpha calling standards.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 06:05:17 -0800s% From: Franz.Lengel@EvoBus.com (Franz)n9 Subject: Re: VMS PHP connect to local Oracle Rdb Databasea= Message-ID: <7eb9f7af.0211060605.2c892e9d@posting.google.com>a   Thank you Martin and Alan,  F I activated the odbc extension for PHP, and phpinfo() shows that it is enabled.  > I do not know which odbc client for VMS I can use. We have SQLE Services for Rdb installed. Is there a SQL Service ODBC client ?  Cans3 or should SQL*Net or Attunity on-platform be used ?t  ! Would I better try Perl instead ?lA I have only a little experience with Perl and even less with PHP. D It seems to be possible to use the same PHP script on VMS and NT, ifF the ODBC sources are defined adequately. Installation of PHP with ODBC@ support was easy (at least so far). And it is delivered from hp.  ? Is there a Perl ODBC module which works on NT and VMS ?  I havedF problems to install Perl moduls on VMS. It might be useful to have the% DEC C compiler, which we haven't got.-   -- Franz --,   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 11:10:10 -0600eB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)@ Subject: Re: VMS to support KDE over CDE in which future version3 Message-ID: <pwn9RWniAm8j@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  e In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-PB6Gr1FHdRfY@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes: # > On Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:47:54 UTC, tE > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote:s >  >> oK >> BTW, I like GTK. I've used it quite a bit on Linux, and more recently ontA >> Win98. (The languages that I have used it with are C and Ada).c > H > It exists for VMS already and can be downloaded from somewhere on the  > Compaq/HP site.m >   * I know, but thanks for the pointer anyway.  H I have not done much with it because there isn't a GtkAda port availableH for VMS. One of these days, I'll have to see what is involved in getting GtkAda ported to VMS...i   Simon.   -- 4B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:46:08 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>l Subject: Re: Voting MachinesK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B99@rlghncst964.usps.gov>          Atlant:  2         Extra credit answer-       It became IBM.         WWWebb   JF Mezei wrote:9  K > Also, I kinda giggled when they mentioned "paper tape". I figured someoneo mustG > have insisted to keep at least one part of the legacy systems ... (is4 paper . > tape older or younger than punched cards  ?)   It's an interesting question.   ' Remember that Hollerith developed punch$. cards in the 19th century for that very-famous* 1890 census, and Jacquard looms (ca. 1801) predate *THAT* by quite a bit.  0 I'm no master of punched paper-tape history, but/ marked paper tape (with, for example, dots-and-e' dashes) existed no later than ca. 1850.o  - And then there appears to be Basile Bouchon'sh, weaving loom that used punched paper tape to0 control the pattern in 1725, but I've never seen a picture of this device.   ( Extra credit: What became of Hollerith's Tabulating Machine Company?l   Atlant   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:20:59 -050062 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Voting Machines. Message-ID: <3DC95D8B.CF8DEC4D@mindspring.com>  
 VAXVMS wrote:t   >       Atlant:u >h >       Extra credit answer- >       It became IBM. >  >       WWWebb > , > > Extra credit: What became of Hollerith's > > Tabulating Machine Company?@ > >n
 > > Atlant   On the nose!   Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:02:49 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> Subject: Re: Voting Systems ?u, Message-ID: <3DC8BD5C.8060803@spammotel.com>   John Smith wrote:oB > "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> wrote in message" > news:3dc7db43$1@news.euriware... > ' >>http://www.georgiacounts.com/faqs.htmr >>1 >>Q:         How are votes recorded and reported?a >>L >>A:         Your vote is recorded in three separate locations on the votingK >>unit, assuring that no vote can ever be lost.  The touch screen terminalsmK >>record choices in flash memory, assuring that votes remain secure even intK >>the unlikely event of a sudden equipment failure.  The voting units use aUL >>form the Microsoft Windows operating system, the most widely used software >>in the world.> >>I >>            In addition to two onboard locations, votes are stored on ahL >>removable computer memory card, much like those found in laptop computers.L >>After the polls close a paper tape is printed showing the vote totals fromK >>each machine, and from all of the units in an individual precinct.  TheseiL >>tapes, along with the removable PC cards from each unit, are collected andI >>transported to the county elections office.  There, the vote totals are.A >>compiled and the cards and tapes are kept in a secure location.O >  > K > And at the country elections office, everyone and everything entering thegM > building has to be scanned by security machines whose induced fields are sotI > strong that they wipe out all the votes recorded on the tapes and flasht > media cards. >  > M > For national elections in Canada they still use paper ballots and manage tou9 > report the results within an hour of the polls closing.a >  >   P As someone who's actually organized polling stations and their staff for a city M election, I can vouch for the one-hour claim for 95% of the polling stations.e  J Don't know about Georgia, but in Canada these quick — though not always L agreeable — results are obtained because citizen participation as polling N station workers is a fairly popular way to participate in the game.  It takes J almost no effort (about 3 people working part-time for about 3 months) to N organize the election infrastructure and recruit, train, and supervise enough  volunteers.   E Since the USA is known (in Canada at least) for supporting volunteer iK organizations more strongly than we do up here, it's a surprise to us that  P (more) Americans don't insist on chucking the machines out of the polling booth M entirely, and restricting them to the compilation of station-by-station vote 0O totals.  I have to side with the Luddites on this one.  The benefit of knowing sQ election results within 5 minutes of the polls closing, versus within one or two 25 hours, or even the next morning, goes to who exactly?      Just my 2 cents,   Alder    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2002 05:56:36 -0600s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)v Subject: Re: Voting Systems ?03 Message-ID: <aXCJGroThd4o@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  W In article <3DC8BD5C.8060803@spammotel.com>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:   G > Since the USA is known (in Canada at least) for supporting volunteer  M > organizations more strongly than we do up here, it's a surprise to us that rR > (more) Americans don't insist on chucking the machines out of the polling booth O > entirely, and restricting them to the compilation of station-by-station vote u  D It would seem appropriate, then, to also generalize that US citizens4 are more susceptible to hype about Mechanized==Good.  Q > totals.  I have to side with the Luddites on this one.  The benefit of knowing dS > election results within 5 minutes of the polls closing, versus within one or two w7 > hours, or even the next morning, goes to who exactly?   E I went out for the evening and happened to hear some election results E on the drive home.  Certainly nothing getting excited about since theL@ outcome will be with us from 2-6 years (barring convictions :-).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:19:55 -0500e2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Voting Systems ? - Message-ID: <3DC94F3B.A129E4F@mindspring.com>    JF Mezei wrote:l  P > Also, I kinda giggled when they mentioned "paper tape". I figured someone mustM > have insisted to keep at least one part of the legacy systems ... (is papern. > tape older or younger than punched cards  ?)   It's an interesting question.i  ' Remember that Hollerith developed puncht. cards in the 19th century for that very-famous* 1890 census, and Jacquard looms (ca. 1801) predate *THAT* by quite a bit.  0 I'm no master of punched paper-tape history, but/ marked paper tape (with, for example, dots-and-a' dashes) existed no later than ca. 1850.n  - And then there appears to be Basile Bouchon'se, weaving loom that used punched paper tape to0 control the pattern in 1725, but I've never seen a picture of this device.s  ( Extra credit: What became of Hollerith's Tabulating Machine Company?    Atlant   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.614 ************************