1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 09 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 619       Contents:9 Re: A problem telnet to OpenVMS box and run cobol program 9 Re: A problem telnet to OpenVMS box and run cobol program 9 Re: A problem telnet to OpenVMS box and run cobol program  Advanced server 7.3 bug? Re: Advanced Server and UAF 5 Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line 5 Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line 5 Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line 5 Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line 5 Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line 5 Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line 5 Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line 5 Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line 5 Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line , Re: Can XFC be used on 2 of 3 cluster nodes?% Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP % Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP % Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP % Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP % Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP % Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP % Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP % Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP % Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP % Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP H Re: DECtalk A Guide To Voice 1985 First Printing EB 26375 56/06 23 100.0 Re: Disk usage analysis  Re: Disk usage analysis  Re: Disk usage analysis  Re: Email Filter/ Re: Fabio's A-Z questions to HP (Year 2003) !!! / Re: Fabio's A-Z questions to HP (Year 2003) !!!  Re: ftp questions  Re: ftp questions ) Hobbyist License programs under Emulators - RE: Hobbyist License programs under Emulators - Re: Hobbyist License programs under Emulators  HP advertising Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site RE: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP keyboard problems Re: HP Service5 Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It P Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards P Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards P Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards P Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards P Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards  JBoss on Alpha VMS 7.30 KGPSA-DA (FCA-2354) Support for Alphaserver 1200+ Re: Last call for C-Kermit 8.0.206 binaries ' Last call for C-Kermit 8.0.206 binaries + Re: Last call for C-Kermit 8.0.206 binaries  Re: Old documentation  Re: OSU server cache Re: OSU server cache Re: OSU server cache' OT: The lighter side of VMS Engineering * Re: recommend a data/disk recovery service7 Re: SHOW PROCESS/PARENT (was: SHOW PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE)  Re: smp license per card? 8 Re: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS related8 RE: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS related8 RE: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS related8 Re: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS related8 Re: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS related Re: VAX in comp.risks ...  Re: VAX in comp.risks ... ( RE: Vax Macro Porting - Still Struggling( Re: Vax Macro Porting - Still Struggling( Re: Vax Macro Porting - Still Struggling( Re: Vax Macro Porting - Still Struggling8 Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS20028 Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS20028 Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS20028 Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS2002 Re: VMS job posting sites?> Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NAT> Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NAT> Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NAT7 VMS mentioned in Comp.risks article on WA pipeline fire ; Re: VMS mentioned in Comp.risks article on WA pipeline fire ( Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?0 Re: VMS PHP connect to local Oracle Rdb Database Re: VMS-6.1  Re: VMS-6.1  Re: VMS-6.1  Re: VMS-6.1  Re: VMS-6.1 $ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?$ Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?! Re: What is DAP status code 5067?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:17:24 -0600 7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> B Subject: Re: A problem telnet to OpenVMS box and run cobol programG Message-ID: <craigberry-D3447E.19172407112002@news.directvinternet.com>    In article  = <Pine.LNX.4.40.0211070848490.31863-100000@newbolt.sonic.net>, 0  Joseph Norris <jozefn@newbolt.sonic.net> wrote:    D >     $t->login(Name=>$username, Password=>$passwd, Prompt=>'/\$/');  G In addition to what JF said you should note that there is no guarantee  = the prompt will be a dollar sign, though that is the default.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:28:48 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> B Subject: Re: A problem telnet to OpenVMS box and run cobol program? Message-ID: <65e02e924b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   . In message <3DCAD268.3B948C6F@vl.videotron.ca>;           JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:    > Joseph Norris wrote:F > >     $t->login(Name=>$username, Password=>$passwd, Prompt=>'/\$/'); > > print "at dir cmd\n"; % > >     $t->print("run testcob.exe");  > 9 > Not sure what the login() function exactly does on VMS.  > L > But you should be aware that after the password has been entered, most VMSH > sites have a SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE command. This sends it varous escapeO > sequences and expect a response from the remote terminal. Only after multiple P > exchanges will SET TERM/INQUIRE give up, issue a waring message and get you toN > the % sign. During that time, any data sent to the system will be "eaten" by > SET TERM/INQUIRE.  > L > So, if the "login()" function doesn't handle the VMS login properly, it isL > probable that it would complete prematurely and then the "run testcob.exe"E > would be sent while SET TERM/INQUIRE is still eating up characters.  > E > You may wish to add another exchange between the login and the "run M > testcob.exe" to ensure yo really are at the "$" sign. (for instance, send a / > "SHOW LOG SYS$LOGIN" and wait for "LNM$JOB").   I This one is a regular killer. When a process is created the first file to J run is the one pointed to be the sys$sylogin logical name. (If there isn'tL one, then sys$manager:sylogin.com is run). The system supplied default has aG lot of checks to avoid breaking network connections, virtual terminals, H X-window screens etc. If it's been modified, it may be doing I/O to uour process.  E The second file to run is login.com in the home directory of the user B specified un username / password. In that home directory will be aA net$server.log file, which may contain useful error logging info.   I Check the user's login.com. A useful line to put in near or at the top is   & $ if f$mode().eqs."NETWORK" then $exit  $ Note that NETWORK is case sensitive.    L (And as stated elsewhere, the prompt may not be $ - the user's login.com may8 be changing it for instance with a $set prompt command.)     --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:48:27 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)B Subject: Re: A problem telnet to OpenVMS box and run cobol program; Message-ID: <3dcbdccb.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   : Alan Adams (alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk) wrote:K > This one is a regular killer. When a process is created the first file to L > run is the one pointed to be the sys$sylogin logical name. (If there isn't2 > one, then sys$manager:sylogin.com is run). [...] > G > The second file to run is login.com in the home directory of the user # > specified un username / password.   G Trying to not be too picky here, but the procedure run is the LGICMD in B the user's UAF record. If that field is blank, sys$login:login.com gets executed.   cu,    Martin --  A                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer . Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 5 Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:36:22 -0600* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>! Subject: Advanced server 7.3 bug? 9 Message-ID: <3dcc2e57$0$17645$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>   H Discovered this today.  While logged on to an Alpha running AS v7.3 then( $admin to get to AS admin utility, I did0 set admin/domain=\\alpha to admin the local box.  J from >sho users  I discovered 3 users listed, Administrator, Guest and Me.  , I wanted to remove Me, so here's what I did.  8 >remove user Me /server=alpha    (found this in the doc)  J followed by a warning about the unique number (SID) assigned to each user, etc.  OK remove user Me   K what then echoed was user "Me" removed from domain "domain".    Huh?????  I > thought I asked AS to delete a local account on /server=alpha.  = BTW, "domain" has thousands of users, not the 3 listed above.   G I now have to have my "domain" account recreated with a bunch of global & groups I have no recollection of, etc.  @ Did I do something wrong or might I have found a bug in AS v7.3?   -- Dave...   G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less  trouble. -----Mark Twain    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:36:13 -0600* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>$ Subject: Re: Advanced Server and UAF9 Message-ID: <3dcbd9ee$0$17646$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>   E So there is a *connection* of sorts between SAM and UAF even when one  chooses LM security only.   L Now, if JoeUser has a domain account but does not have a VMS account, or hasJ one w/a different user name and Joe connects to an AS server and creates aL file, then PWRK$default owns it.  I guess that's good and bad.  Good in thatH Joe can get some work on an AS server.  And bad perhaps in that everyoneG (pwrk$default) has some sort of access to Joe's work.  Is this correct?    -- Dave...   G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less  trouble. -----Mark Twain   @ "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message) news:uslqbve1h2c945@corp.supernews.com... J > Larry is correct.  When we create a VMS file, some VMS user must own it.@ > Even if everyone maps to PWRK$DEFAULT, it is still a VMS user. > E > And, I think there is a hard relationship between Administrator and  SYSTEM, - > or, at least there is in some circumstance.  > < > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:kHsmO99GZWIa@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > > In article <3dca98fc$0$1451$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>, "Dave Gudewicz" > <dgudewicz@core.com> writes:H > > > Can't find this in the docs.  Are there any circumstances where an A.S.L > > > (v7.3) w/LanManager *only* security needs to find anything in the UAF? > > I > > I thought it mapped Microsoft identities into VMS identities in order L > > to know who should be the file owner.  It cannot do that without SYSUAF. >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 01:42:27 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>> Subject: Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line* Message-ID: <aqf4q3$pji$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  8 In comp.os.vms Maverick <maverick902@hotmail.com> wrote:E > In summary, performance declines dramatically when the Alpha is the E > recipient of the data, and is OK otherwise. The alpha in location B D > has only recently moved there.  They used to talk quite happily to> > each other before this, when the second Alpha was in anotherD > location again.  The only things that have changed are the routersE > at each end (used to be Nortel ARN routers) and the seond Alpha now @ > plugs into a Cisco switch rather than a Nortel Baystack 350 it > plugged into before.  F What are (and were if you happen to know) the round-trip-times betweenF the sytsems? One of the (many) limits to the performance of a bulk TCPD transfer (such as that done by FTP is the Window Size divided by the round-trip-time - W/RTT.  F If you have done something that has increased RTT, and W is not "largeF enough" to allow W/RTT to be >= link rate, you could see a decrease in performance.  > You might also check the statistics of whatever VMS has as theC equivalent to netstat (being pre-merger HP, my last exposure to VMS A was back in oh something like 1987).  Another thing that can kill B performance is packet loss - particulalry if the windows are smallC enough that fast retransmits cannot take place and you have to wait  for retransmission timeouts.  D Finally, it might be worthwhile to get a tcpdump (packet) trace of a: transfer that is slow and take a look at what it may show.  
 rick jones --  = denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth...  where do you want to be today?F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 05:05:32 +0000 (UTC)* From: "Maverick" <maverick902@hotmail.com>> Subject: Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line/ Message-ID: <aqfgms$blu$1@helle.btinternet.com>    Hi Rick,   Thanks for your reply   H > What are (and were if you happen to know) the round-trip-times between > the sytsems?  J Im gonna show myself up now, but How do I measure / compute the RTT?  Ping* times are about 10 sec for 64 byte packets  # Also, how do I see the window size?  > F > Finally, it might be worthwhile to get a tcpdump (packet) trace of a< > transfer that is slow and take a look at what it may show.  J I'd like to see what's happening at the alpha end.  Is there anything likeK tcpdump I can run on the alpha, or do I have to mirror the port and monitor  it from another device?    Thanks,    Maverick   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:21:56 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> > Subject: Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line? Message-ID: <973f2e924b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   6 In message <newscache$6k695h$7tc$1@lnews.actcom.co.il>@           "Leonid Rosenboim" <My_1st_name@Consultant.Com> wrote:  ; > Darn, the duplex thing would have been an obvious choise, A > but I'd recommend setting 10Mbps & Half Duplex manually on both 5 > the switch and the NIC before giving up this venue.  > > > A second thing I'd check is packet loss rate and delay time,; > as simply can be shown with a lengthy ping (>100 packets) 8 > and using longer then usual packet size (1,200 bytes). > E > Also, since the switch is also IP capable, do the ping test between 6 > the VMS and Catalyst, then VMS to Router (local IP )5 > then from VMP to local Router (T1 side IP address),  > then remote router.  > C > This will show not only the nature of the problem, but also where  > it begins. >  > J > Can also do the same from the NT side, ping to local router, then remote	 > router, J > then remote switch, the VMS, but this is a no brainer cause your T to NT > tests D > show that the problem is *probably* on the catalust - VMS section.  K You might also do a tracert (or traceroute) from both ends, and see whether  the two routes differ.  I In another message you said ping was returning in 10 seconds - was that a L typo - ping is more usually 10 milliseconds. 10 seconds WILL be part of your problem.   >  > -- HTHI > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- K >    Leonid Rosenboim     Visit:  http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html M >        Consultant                Email: my first name at consultant dot com  >  > B > "Leonid Rosenboim" <My_1st_name@Consultant.Com> wrote in message3 > news:newscache$06s75h$5t9$1@lnews.actcom.co.il... B > > Well, the first thing I'd check is the PHY negotiation between: > > the Alpha and the Cat3500 switch. It sometimes happens? > > that the switch things its Half duplex while the NIC thinks + > > its un full deuplex mode or vice versa.  > >  > >  > > --K > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- M > >    Leonid Rosenboim     Visit:  http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html K > >        Consultant                Email: my first name at consultant dot  > com  > >  > > 9 > > "Maverick" <maverick902@hotmail.com> wrote in message . > > news:aqe2qa$khj$1@sparta.btinternet.com... > > > Hello, > > > J > > > We have a strange network performance problem.  We have a 2Mb leased > lineN > > > terminated at each end by a Cisco 2600 router.   A Digital Alpha DS20 isL > > > present in both locations, along with a network of NT boxes. One Alpha > isL > > > loaded with VMS 7.1-2 and the other with 7.2-1.  The network at either > end  > > > is Switched ethernet.  > > >  > > > So we have > > > " > > > | NT boxes|   |DS20 (7.2-1)|- > > > ____|___________|______      Location A  > > >                    | > > >       |Baystack 350 |  > > >       |10/100 switch | > > >  > > >     |Cisco 2651 router|  > > >                   |  > > >                   | ' > > >                   |    (2Mb link)  > > >                   |  > > >                   |  > > >     |Cisco 2621 router|  > > >  > > >       |Cisco Catalyst| > > >       |  3500 switch |* > > > _________|____________    Location B' > > >          |                      | " > > > | NT boxes|   |DS20 (7.1-2)| > > >  > > > H > > > All boxes can connect over IP, but performance varies dramatically
 > > depending  > > > on the destination box.  > > > I > > > In summary, performance declines dramatically when the Alpha is the M > > > recipient of the data, and is OK otherwise. The alpha in location B has  > > onlyJ > > > recently moved there.  They used to talk quite happily to each other
 > > beforeJ > > > this, when the second Alpha was in another location again.  The only
 > > thingsJ > > > that have changed are the routers at each end (used to be Nortel ARNN > > > routers) and the seond Alpha now plugs into a Cisco switch rather than a1 > > > Nortel Baystack 350 it plugged into before.  > > > M > > > There appears to be no congestion on the link.  Can anyone think of any L > > > reason why the choice of router (Cisco) would have such an effect, but > > onlyI > > > on traffic to the Alphas? Or should I be looking at something else?  > Some5 > > > measurements on performance are given below.  .  > > > K > > > - An FTP put from the DS20 in A to the DS20 in B is dreadful at about 
 > > 25kB/sJ > > > - An FTP put from the DS20 in B to the DS20 in A is also not good at > about  > > > 50kB/sJ > > > - An FTP put from any NT box to any NT box (over the link) is  about > > 170kB/s  > > > in both directionsM > > > - An FTP put from an NT box in A to the DS20 in B is again about 25kB/s J > > > - An FTP get from an NT box on one side of the link to a DS20 on the > other  > > > is about 170kB/sN > > > - Local performance from NT boxes to Alpha's (both PUT and GET) seems OK > > at# > > > about 4MB/s in both locations  > > > $ > > > Any help greatly appreciated!! > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  >  >    --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:33:19 +1100* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>> Subject: Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line' Message-ID: <aqf491$7fi$1@lore.csc.com>    Maverick wrote: 
 > Hi John, > 	 > Thanks.  > H > Is that the same as UCX SHOW ROUTE? (I'm a complete bimbo where VMS isF > concerned I'm afraid).  If it is, then the route is set to the right > place.  P which version of UCX are you running? ($ ucx show version).  Assuming as you sayM your routes are correct, I would check you are at the highest patch level for $ your version of UCX, then try again.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2002 00:25:08 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>> Subject: Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line* Message-ID: <aqhkl4$9i0$4@web1.cup.hp.com>  8 In comp.os.vms Maverick <maverick902@hotmail.com> wrote:I >> What are (and were if you happen to know) the round-trip-times between  >> the sytsems?   F > Im gonna show myself up now, but How do I measure / compute the RTT?1 > Ping times are about 10 sec for 64 byte packets   D Ten _seconds_ !?! That is huge - in speed-of-light terms it would beE the equivalent to going through something like five geosync satellite  links each way.   C Another way to guesstimate RTTs would be with a netperf TCP_RR test D using single-byte requests and responses. I'm not sure if anyone has$ netperf ported to VMS or not though.  % > Also, how do I see the window size?    In a packet trace :)  E >> Finally, it might be worthwhile to get a tcpdump (packet) trace of ? >> a transfer that is slow and take a look at what it may show.   > > I'd like to see what's happening at the alpha end.  Is thereF > anything like tcpdump I can run on the alpha, or do I have to mirror. > the port and monitor it from another device?  F If tcpdump has been ported to Alpha/VMS then I suspect that there willB be something to that effect on www.tcpdump.org. I myself came from> pre-merger HP and have only started up the VMS leraning curve.  B Given the (lack of) speeds invovled, mirroring the port may be the easiest way to go.  F However, if your round-trip-times are _really_ 10 seconds, then to getC 2 Mbit/s (that was the leased line's bitrate right?) you would need    2 Mbit/s <= W/10 seconds   or     20 Mbit/s * 10 s <= W   
 which becomes   B 20 Mbit <= W or W at least 2.5 million bytes or ~2.4 MBytes (MB ==D 1024). I am reasonably confident that no TCP/IP stack out there runsC that large a default window size. Such a large window size requires 8 support on both ends for TCP Window Scaling (RFC 1323).   @ Without RFC 1323 support available and enabled on both ends, theF largest window in TCP is roughly 64KB, which is 524,288 bits. A windowA of that many bits with a 10 second RTT would yield something like D 52428 bits per second or 6.4 KByte/s of throughput. IIRC, you statedE earlier that the systems are getting 25 KB/s, which means that either D they (or the apps) have been tuned with a larger window size, or the% RTT is actually less than 10 seconds.   
 rick jones  C And once windows get into the MB range, one probably wants SACK and  Timestamp options enabled...   --  / "Hey! Hey! SUV! The gas you waste empowers me!" ?                            - overheard at an al Qaeda pep-rally F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2002 00:33:52 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>> Subject: Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line* Message-ID: <aqhl5g$9i0$5@web1.cup.hp.com>  8 In comp.os.vms Dale King <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote: > Maverick wrote: N >>- An FTP put from any NT box to any NT box (over the link) is  about 170kB/s >>in both directionsI >>- An FTP put from an NT box in A to the DS20 in B is again about 25kB/s   C > This would indicate the TCP window size is not the problem, as it ' > would be set by the source (NT box).    > The "classic" TCP window is set by the receiver.  However, theA "effective" TCP window size would be the lesser of the receiver's A classic TCP window, the senders SO_SNDBUF (or equivalent) and the & sender's calculated congestion window.  E So, indeed, it does appear that there may be enough receiver window - D which leaves questions about the SO_SNDBUF (which while usually, mayB not be the same as the SO_RCVBUF - in some cases FTP codes weren'tF setting both) and the cwnd (congestion window).  And questions of cwnd= takes us to questions of packet loss and perhaps receiver ACK A policies, which takes us back to the "netstat" statistics and the 
 packet trace.   D > He could try a UDP throughput test (with the TTCP utility in TCPIP > V5.1+) to confirm this.   B Or a netperf UDP_STREAM - I'll have to go email the VMS networking. guys and lobby for that one instead of ttcp :)  D That would indeed show that the CPUs at either end were able to dealD with traffic rates > 25 KB/s, however, care has to be taken with the@ size of the UDP datagrams - if the network does have packet lossC issues, the multiplicative increase of IP fragmentation on datagram A loss for UDP datagrams > the MTU would kick-in. It also would not > address issues relating to TCP ACK policies or SO_SNDBUF size.  
 rick jones  F btw, if there is indeed a "netstat" on VMS, then a netstat -an (or its@ equivalent) showing the sendq on the sending side would show theE SO_SNDBUF setting - that is presuming that the sending FTP is keeping $ the socket buffer full all the time.   --  H Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2002 01:22:34 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>> Subject: Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line* Message-ID: <aqho0q$bpc$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  6 In comp.os.vms Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote:G > So, indeed, it does appear that there may be enough receiver window -    ...may not... that is...  
 rick jones --  / "Hey! Hey! SUV! The gas you waste empowers me!" ?                            - overheard at an al Qaeda pep-rally F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 12:06:15 -0800 , From: cdl@deeptow.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)> Subject: Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line+ Message-ID: <aqh5fn$68f$1@deeptow.ucsd.edu>   0 In article <aqe2qa$khj$1@sparta.btinternet.com>,) Maverick <maverick902@hotmail.com> wrote:  >Hello,  > J >We have a strange network performance problem.  We have a 2Mb leased lineI >terminated at each end by a Cisco 2600 router.   A Digital Alpha DS20 is J >present in both locations, along with a network of NT boxes. One Alpha isK >loaded with VMS 7.1-2 and the other with 7.2-1.  The network at either end  >is Switched ethernet.  / . . . lots of good ASCII drawings snipped . . .   = Have you checked the really simple hardware thing, namely the B connecting cable going into Alpha box B?  Split pairs in the cable$ could be the cause of your problems.       carl --  >         carl lowenstein   marine physical lab   u.c. san diego>                                           clowenstein@ucsd.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:44:31 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>> Subject: Re: Alpha network performance issues over leased line, Message-ID: <3DCBCDCF.4050502@tsoft-inc.com>  N One question about the network.  Are you 100% sure that everything is running L full duplex?  I tried full duplex once on an Alpha, without everything else Q being full duplex, and performance died.  I switched back to half duplex and the  < performance returned.  Later research discovered this issue.   Dave     Hamlyn Mootoo wrote:  d > "Maverick" <maverick902@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<aqe2qa$khj$1@sparta.btinternet.com>... >  >>Hello, >>K >>We have a strange network performance problem.  We have a 2Mb leased line J >>terminated at each end by a Cisco 2600 router.   A Digital Alpha DS20 isK >>present in both locations, along with a network of NT boxes. One Alpha is L >>loaded with VMS 7.1-2 and the other with 7.2-1.  The network at either end >>is Switched ethernet.  >> >>So we have >> >>| NT boxes|   |DS20 (7.2-1)|) >>____|___________|______      Location A  >>                   | >>      |Baystack 350 |  >>      |10/100 switch | >> >>    |Cisco 2651 router|  >>                  |  >>                  | # >>                  |    (2Mb link)  >>                  |  >>                  |  >>    |Cisco 2621 router|  >> >>      |Cisco Catalyst| >>      |  3500 switch |& >>_________|____________    Location B# >>         |                      |  >>| NT boxes|   |DS20 (7.1-2)| >> >>N >>All boxes can connect over IP, but performance varies dramatically depending >>on the destination box.  >>E >>In summary, performance declines dramatically when the Alpha is the N >>recipient of the data, and is OK otherwise. The alpha in location B has onlyM >>recently moved there.  They used to talk quite happily to each other before M >>this, when the second Alpha was in another location again.  The only things F >>that have changed are the routers at each end (used to be Nortel ARNJ >>routers) and the seond Alpha now plugs into a Cisco switch rather than a- >>Nortel Baystack 350 it plugged into before.  >>I >>There appears to be no congestion on the link.  Can anyone think of any M >>reason why the choice of router (Cisco) would have such an effect, but only K >>on traffic to the Alphas? Or should I be looking at something else?  Some 1 >>measurements on performance are given below.  .  >>N >>- An FTP put from the DS20 in A to the DS20 in B is dreadful at about 25kB/sL >>- An FTP put from the DS20 in B to the DS20 in A is also not good at about >>50kB/sN >>- An FTP put from any NT box to any NT box (over the link) is  about 170kB/s >>in both directionsI >>- An FTP put from an NT box in A to the DS20 in B is again about 25kB/s L >>- An FTP get from an NT box on one side of the link to a DS20 on the other >>is about 170kB/sM >>- Local performance from NT boxes to Alpha's (both PUT and GET) seems OK at  >>about 4MB/s in both locations  >>  >>Any help greatly appreciated!! >> > F > How long does it take for a ping to traverse the link from an NT box# > on side A to the Alpha on side B?  > F > Do you see the same slowdown with any other application besides FTP? > G > Without any other information, the first thing I would check, is what G > DNS (if any) the Alpha on the B side is pointing to, and/or how it is 1 > resolving names, or back resolving IP to names.  >  > Hamlyn >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 08:55:09 +1100B From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@noooo_spammm_optusnet.com.au>5 Subject: Re: Can XFC be used on 2 of 3 cluster nodes? < Message-ID: <3dcc32e7$0$18873$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   Ok  8 I think what that means if you have a three node cluster- and its primary two nodes and a voting member 3 then the two main nodes must have vcc_flags enabled A and the third member doesn't need it, assuming that all the third 4 member does is contributes a vote, and nothing else.  6 Thats how it works for me. I have two 8400's in a wide4 area cluster, and a vax with a vote at a third site.+ The two 8400's shadow their data disks, and  have vcc_flags enabled.    make sense?    antony      ? "Carl Karcher" <karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in message , news:7NOV02.21201847@kort.waisman.wisc.ed...8 > This isn't clear to me from reading the release notes: > I > Can XFC be used on two Alpha nodes (both at VMS 7.3-1 with VCC_FLAGS=2) C > in a three node cluster if the 3rd node doesn't mount any cluster I > shared disks (e.g. it's only a voting "quorum" node and running VAX/VMS > > 6.2 - I know, that's not supported but it's only temporary)? > J > Or, must ALL nodes in the cluster be have XFC enabled in order for it to > be used on ANY node? > 	 > Thanks.  >  > --I > -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 2 > --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 12:31:57 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) . Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP3 Message-ID: <fqVdhvKpjqee@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <aqgvl7$a3ttj$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:* > In article <3DCBF111.1030900@rdrop.com>,* > 	Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: >> Phillip Helbig wrote:I >>> IIRC, the cluster alias works as follows: the first system to get it uI >>> keeps it; another system doesn't get it until the first system can't r2 >>> handle it.  No load balancing, no round robin. >>  J >> that's been my experience.  I load balance by having users connect via H >> a DNS name, which is set up in the internal DNS server with an entry G >> for each machine's IP address.  The DNS server will round-robin the  % >> addresses it has for a given name.a >> s > G > But, because the Nameserver can't possibly have any notion of machine I > usage this offers load balancing only by pure chance and in all likeli-  > hood, not at all.e >    	For load balancing..w  < 	The nameserver doesn't need to know the load on the system.< 	The trick of course is to have a short TTL (1 minute) so it@ 	queries the server to resolve.  That is where the load balancerA 	on your TCP/IP product takes over.  Depending on DNS server, youl? 	may have to perform a trick or two (i.e. NetID... there was/isl% 	one trick that needs to be applied).l   	Works like so:g   $ multinet nslooks  J Default Server:  netid3.holder.domain.com   ! Need I mention fake domains?+ Address:  199.99.36.4   ! Fake IP addresses    > clusterservice! Server:  netid3.holder.domain.comv Address:  199.99.36.4   ' Name:    clusterservice.holder.chop.edu7. Addresses:  199.99.8.1, 199.99.8.3, 199.99.8.4  E 	If you telnetted to "clusterservice" , you would be logging into 8.1i  G > The BIND documentation itself calls it "load sharing" and denies thatY > it is "load balancing".s  9 	You do the best you can with what you have to work with.m   				RobE  oB Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wondervG Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstreami> The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  .                                 -- Neil Young    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 12:50:24 -0600D- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) . Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP3 Message-ID: <OtSu5+R9p13I@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ` In article <aqgvl7$a3ttj$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:* > In article <3DCBF111.1030900@rdrop.com>,* > 	Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: >> Phillip Helbig wrote:I >>> IIRC, the cluster alias works as follows: the first system to get it  I >>> keeps it; another system doesn't get it until the first system can't 82 >>> handle it.  No load balancing, no round robin. >> rJ >> that's been my experience.  I load balance by having users connect via H >> a DNS name, which is set up in the internal DNS server with an entry G >> for each machine's IP address.  The DNS server will round-robin the S% >> addresses it has for a given name.d >> e > G > But, because the Nameserver can't possibly have any notion of machine'I > usage this offers load balancing only by pure chance and in all likeli-o > hood, not at all.  > G > The BIND documentation itself calls it "load sharing" and denies that  > it is "load balancing".l  C Of course software would need some tremendous hints from the systema@ manager to determine what constituted "load" at a site.  In some? cases it might be CPU, other places disk IO or some places eveno memory utilization.i   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 13:57:28 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)0. Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP3 Message-ID: <kDAsqwev2gw7@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  c In article <OtSu5+R9p13I@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:t   >>H >> The BIND documentation itself calls it "load sharing" and denies that >> it is "load balancing". > E > Of course software would need some tremendous hints from the systemeB > manager to determine what constituted "load" at a site.  In someA > cases it might be CPU, other places disk IO or some places evenl > memory utilization.e    B 	Or the hint is the LAT load balancing algorithm , which is as old% 	as the hills and works like a charm:e  B http://www.process.com/techsupport/multinet/faqs/multinet0029.html  @ Info From Compaq on how their LAT Load Balancing Algorithm works      P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------    ? [OpenVMS/LAT] LAT Rating and Load Balancing, The Real Story ...-M Last Technical Review:  7-MAR-1994                            Size: 359 lines      	[etc.]g   				Rob<  D "She had a deep, throaty, genuine laugh, like that sound a dog makes just before it throws up."  # 			-- From actual High School Essay0   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 14:41:41 -06001+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) . Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP3 Message-ID: <vCa6edKdLGZ5@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  ? 	Disregard the post below.  Some of what is in it is backwards. - 	I haven't time now, may clean this up later.e   				Robi    a In article <$yE115UWxOdf@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:MO > In article <ma6osukfjf6l74a3cmqecedkb6bj0rvo3k@4ax.com>, munk@home.nl writes:oF >> On 8 Nov 2002 12:08:39 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)	 >> wrote:s >> aP >>>In article <i1vnsu0q5vndf5nl4jf1clnu85s7mq4fpm@4ax.com>, munk@home.nl writes: >>>F >>>> <C >>>> Now there is something very strange with VMS TCPIP clustering. J >>>> Normally you can have only one master DNS server, however with VMS itE >>>> is possible to build a clustered DNS server. That is wonderfull, H >>>> because if one of the nodes in the cluster goes down, the other one; >>>> will still be a master DNS server. A real VMS virtue !  >>>>  H >>>> Now comes the less nice part. You can not use this clustered masterJ >>>> DNS server with dynamic updates ! The reason is that only the clusterJ >>>> member that receives the update will know about the update. The other> >>>> node(s) will not know of this update, because there is no? >>>> synchronisation mechanism over the cluster members for the(! >>>> distribution of the updates.l >>>> oK >>>> So we can build clustered master DNS servers for maximum availability, D >>>> and we can build clustered production systems, also for maximumA >>>> availability, but we can't combine the two. Very unpleasant.t >>>> >>>d" >>>	Unless I am misinterpreting... >>>e) >>>	You don't need clustered DNS servers.n >>> = >>>	There are products similar to the following... substitute  >>>	your favorite product... >>> 
 >>>	NetID: >>> @ >>>http://www.nortelnetworks.com/products/01/optivity/opt_netid/ >>>fB >>>	You make the changes on the NetID Admin Server and the changes? >>>	are pushed out to the NetID servers.  Here is an editorial oE >>>	comment on NetID... don't think it is true DNS as we know it.  Itf( >>>	is a nice GUI wrapper around DNS ... >>>hN >>>http://www.nortelnetworks.com/products/01/optivity/opt_netid/faq_dns.html#8 >>>eI >>>Q: Why would I replace my DNS Servers with Optivity NetID DNS Servers?i >>>yQ >>>A: The Optivity NetID DNS Server eliminates the need to produce and distributeoH >>>DNS configuration files. Optivity NetID DNS Servers are automaticallyP >>>configured from the Management Console and receive automatic updates from theE >>>Server Manager/database. When the DNS Server starts, it builds itshQ >>>configuration from the Optivity NetID database. When there are changes made to.P >>>static addresses in the database, the Server Manager pushes these changes outM >>>to the DNS Server. When a DHCP Server issues a dynamic address, the ServerjP >>>Manager updates the database. From the database, the Server Manager sends the! >>>new address to the DNS Server.r >>> 6 >>>	In most cases, you have multiple "master" servers. >>>:A >>>	The feature or tool missing in what you describe is of coursesH >>>	the method to push the changes to the other VMS servers in realtime. >>>eG >>>	The AIX boys nearby used to have a very nice Perl script to provideeC >>>	this functionality when managing DNS.  Perhaps you can write a p? >>>	DCL/Perl script to force changes to all your DNS servers inr) >>>	real-time?  Is that the wrong answer?  >>>s
 >>>				Rob >> I >> Actualy, yes :-), >> lC >> With DHCP as you will know a client asks a DHCP server for an IP H >> address (and other IP stuff like gateway etc.). Once the clients getsE >> that, the whole thing is rather static. The client will use the IPtI >> address basically as long as it is on line. Usually you will combine ad/ >> DHCP server with a DNS server in one system., >> v > > > 	Yes, DHCP is a different can of worms... as the discussions > 	revolve :-).e > I >> The dynamic updates I am referring to are very different. Let's say weiE >> have a DNS name VMSCLUSTER(.compaq.com), and it is used with a two 8 >> node cluster with IP addresses 10.1.1.1 and 10.1.1.2. >> pB >> Now what will happen is that every 30 seconds the loadbroker inC >> conjunction with the metric server will check which node has theeF >> lowest load. Then the loadbroker will send the name VMSCLUSTER withH >> the appropiate IP address to the master DNS server. So it may well beG >> that VMSCLUSTER has IP address 10.1.1.1 now, and 30 seconds later itdD >> has IP address 10.1.1.2. And this this will go on the whole time. >> l3 >> So the Nortel thing is something very different.a >> f > F > 	You misread what I wrote.  I am essentially saying the same thing. C > 	Multinet's load balancing works well, as does TCP/IP services (It > 	suppose). > = > 	Taking what you wrote, the only Nortel difference is this:e > F >> lowest load. Then the loadbroker will send the name VMSCLUSTER withN >> the appropiate IP address to the *querying NetID server.* So it may well beG >> that VMSCLUSTER has IP address 10.1.1.1 now, and 30 seconds later ituD >> has IP address 10.1.1.2. And this this will go on the whole time. > ; > 	You probably want to have several NetID servers in case	eI > 	one takes a hit or a segment goes down.  The concept of master server U > 	does not apply. >  > 	Further enlightening: >  > $ multinet config/netr > NET-CONFIG>showoE > Interface                                Adapter     CSR Address   i > Flags/VectorE > ---------                                -------     -----------     > ------------M > se0      (Shared VMS Ethernet/FDDI)       -NONE-        -NONE-       -NONE-s< >           [TCP/IP: 199.99.8.3, IP-SubNet: 255.255.255.224]4 >           [VMS Device: EIA0, Link Level: Ethernet]M > se1      (Shared VMS Ethernet/FDDI)       -NONE-        -NONE-       -NONE-a< >           [TCP/IP: 199.99.8.4, IP-SubNet: 255.255.255.224]4 >           [VMS Device: EIA0, Link Level: Ethernet] >  > 8 > Official Host Name:             node.holder.domain.com- > Default IP Route:               199.99.8.30t, > IP Cluster Aliases:             199.99.8.8B > Cluster Service Names:          clusterservice.holder.domain.com, > Cluster Service IP address:     199.99.8.3@ > Domain Nameservers:             199.99.99.4  ! NetID3, fake IP7 >                                 199.99.72.2  ! NetID2c3 > Local Domain:                   holder.domain.comt% > Timezone:                       PDTt+ > Timezone Rules:                 PADAGONIAe= > Anonymous FTP Directory:        DISK$HOLDER_NOT:[ANONYMOUS] & > Load UCX $QIO driver:           TRUE& > Load PWIP (Pathworks) driver:   TRUEB > Spool Directory:                DISK$HOLDER_NOT:[MULTINET_SPOOL] >  > 6 > 	8.3,8.4 is not resolving clusterservice.  NetID is.G > 	I'm caching only (forward first).  I'm pointing to two NetID serversnB > 	in case one goes down.  I *must* resolve clusterservice or I amE > 	down.  Having to rely on a "master" server is unacceptable.  Don't B > 	tell me that HP/Compaq TCPIP Services load brokering works with. > 	a "master" DNS server.  It doesn't does it? > 	 > 				Robl > P > "It is considered awkward to use seriously such words as good and evil. But ifO >  we are to be deprived of those concepts, what will be left?  We will declinea0 >  to the status of animals.   -- Solzhenitsyn     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:35:58 GMTo9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>c. Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP? Message-ID: <69882f924b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>y  - In message <3DCAD239.17272.5DEB50A@localhost>e5           "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote:h  F > I have two Alphas in a cluster, running VMS 7.1-2, with UCX 4.2 ECO G > 2.  I've defined an Internet cluster address to the two systems, and W) > both take incoming connections equally.c > D > But now I need to make node "A" take all of the incoming traffic, G > with node "B" ready to take the traffic if node "A" drops out of the uG > cluster.  What I don't want to do is to disable the Internet cluster kD > address on "B" right now, and hope to remember to re-establish it  > should "A" fail... > F > I've searched the FAQ, Ask the Wizard, and the manuals.  Is there a 3 > way to do this, and what's the magic incantation?u >  > --Stan Quaylea > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------E > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671s3 > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 ? > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com  >  >   L We fixed something similar with DCL. We wanted an IP address to point to theJ machine running a particular application. We wrote a failover system whichI ran on the backup machine, detected when the primary was no longer in them% cluster, and started the application.D  I There were lots of checks and things necessary (backup booting first, for  example), but it worked.  H The key thing was that the process issued TCPIP commands (and I think itH also works on UXC4) to assign a secondary address. The address therefore% moved to the machine running the app.   G (Command is something like $ucx set interface SEA0 address 1.2.3.4 mask I 255.0.0.0) I don't have access to VMS at the moment (unemployed) so can'to check exactly.  H One check was to ping the address first, to make sure we didn't create a
 duplicate.       --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:50:01 -0500e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP/ Message-ID: <3DCC4D92.5E8A0896@vl.videotron.ca>a   munk@home.nl wrote:9E > lowest load. Then the loadbroker will send the name VMSCLUSTER withaG > the appropiate IP address to the master DNS server. So it may well betF > that VMSCLUSTER has IP address 10.1.1.1 now, and 30 seconds later itC > has IP address 10.1.1.2. And this this will go on the whole time.x  M So if inbound traffic arrives via a NAT router, this won't work since the NAT O router will forward incoming call requests to an IP address, not a domain name.s  K So one would need to constantly update the router,s config to route inbounds- calls to the right VMS machine by IP address.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 00:20:22 GMTh- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>o. Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP< Message-ID: <axYy9.10683$6g.3664039@news1.news.adelphia.net>   JF Mezei wrote:h  H > So if inbound traffic arrives via a NAT router, this won't work since G > the NAT router will forward incoming call requests to an IP address, t > not a domain name. >sF > So one would need to constantly update the router,s config to route 7 > inbound calls to the right VMS machine by IP address.   G A business grade NAT router allows multiple external I.P. addresses to a6 be mapped through to specific internal I.P. addresses.  G A low cost home grade NAT router may only allow one I.P. address to be L directly mapped through.  E Look for a big price jump from a home NAT router and the lowest cost - business class NAT router.   -Johnb wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:39:07 -0800c% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>o. Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP( Message-ID: <3DCC592B.1070103@rdrop.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > munk@home.nl wrote:n > E >>lowest load. Then the loadbroker will send the name VMSCLUSTER withwG >>the appropiate IP address to the master DNS server. So it may well beiF >>that VMSCLUSTER has IP address 10.1.1.1 now, and 30 seconds later itC >>has IP address 10.1.1.2. And this this will go on the whole time.- >  > O > So if inbound traffic arrives via a NAT router, this won't work since the NATrQ > router will forward incoming call requests to an IP address, not a domain name.   ? Depends on whether or not we're combining two threads here. ;-)w  G If it's a SOHO "NAT" router (or other) config'd with only one external lC IP address, that's correct.  But if there are multiple external IP h> addresses available, you can point each address at a diferent * (internal) machine.  Update DNS as needed.   > M > So one would need to constantly update the router,s config to route inbound / > calls to the right VMS machine by IP address.        -- k: Dean Woodward   | Portland, OR- worst motorcycling weather/ deanw!rdrop,com | in the continental US, there. 5                  |  - Someone on rec.moto, circa 1994 ; ----------------+------------------------------------------ 2 '66 Duc 250 - '00 KLR650 - '01 Falco - '03 FJR1300   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 12:08:39 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) . Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP3 Message-ID: <B46O9BmLl53I@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <i1vnsu0q5vndf5nl4jf1clnu85s7mq4fpm@4ax.com>, munk@home.nl writes:    > @ > Now there is something very strange with VMS TCPIP clustering.G > Normally you can have only one master DNS server, however with VMS itbB > is possible to build a clustered DNS server. That is wonderfull,E > because if one of the nodes in the cluster goes down, the other onea8 > will still be a master DNS server. A real VMS virtue ! > E > Now comes the less nice part. You can not use this clustered mastermG > DNS server with dynamic updates ! The reason is that only the cluster G > member that receives the update will know about the update. The other ; > node(s) will not know of this update, because there is non< > synchronisation mechanism over the cluster members for the > distribution of the updates. > H > So we can build clustered master DNS servers for maximum availability,A > and we can build clustered production systems, also for maximum > > availability, but we can't combine the two. Very unpleasant. >    	Unless I am misinterpreting...t  & 	You don't need clustered DNS servers.  : 	There are products similar to the following... substitute 	your favorite product...    	NetID:   = http://www.nortelnetworks.com/products/01/optivity/opt_netid/b  ? 	You make the changes on the NetID Admin Server and the changes < 	are pushed out to the NetID servers.  Here is an editorial B 	comment on NetID... don't think it is true DNS as we know it.  It% 	is a nice GUI wrapper around DNS ...   K http://www.nortelnetworks.com/products/01/optivity/opt_netid/faq_dns.html#8   F Q: Why would I replace my DNS Servers with Optivity NetID DNS Servers?  N A: The Optivity NetID DNS Server eliminates the need to produce and distributeE DNS configuration files. Optivity NetID DNS Servers are automaticallynM configured from the Management Console and receive automatic updates from the B Server Manager/database. When the DNS Server starts, it builds itsN configuration from the Optivity NetID database. When there are changes made toM static addresses in the database, the Server Manager pushes these changes outRJ to the DNS Server. When a DHCP Server issues a dynamic address, the ServerM Manager updates the database. From the database, the Server Manager sends thea new address to the DNS Server.  3 	In most cases, you have multiple "master" servers.d  > 	The feature or tool missing in what you describe is of courseE 	the method to push the changes to the other VMS servers in realtime.u  D 	The AIX boys nearby used to have a very nice Perl script to provide@ 	this functionality when managing DNS.  Perhaps you can write a < 	DCL/Perl script to force changes to all your DNS servers in& 	real-time?  Is that the wrong answer?   				Robn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:19:25 +0100c From: munk@home.nl. Subject: Re: Cluster load balancing via TCP/IP8 Message-ID: <ma6osukfjf6l74a3cmqecedkb6bj0rvo3k@4ax.com>  C On 8 Nov 2002 12:08:39 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young), wrote:  N >In article <i1vnsu0q5vndf5nl4jf1clnu85s7mq4fpm@4ax.com>, munk@home.nl writes: >  >>  A >> Now there is something very strange with VMS TCPIP clustering.hH >> Normally you can have only one master DNS server, however with VMS itC >> is possible to build a clustered DNS server. That is wonderfull,rF >> because if one of the nodes in the cluster goes down, the other one9 >> will still be a master DNS server. A real VMS virtue !o >>  F >> Now comes the less nice part. You can not use this clustered masterH >> DNS server with dynamic updates ! The reason is that only the clusterH >> member that receives the update will know about the update. The other< >> node(s) will not know of this update, because there is no= >> synchronisation mechanism over the cluster members for them >> distribution of the updates.  >> pI >> So we can build clustered master DNS servers for maximum availability,iB >> and we can build clustered production systems, also for maximum? >> availability, but we can't combine the two. Very unpleasant.  >> >f  >	Unless I am misinterpreting... > ' >	You don't need clustered DNS servers., > ; >	There are products similar to the following... substitute  >	your favorite product... >e >	NetID: >g> >http://www.nortelnetworks.com/products/01/optivity/opt_netid/ >/@ >	You make the changes on the NetID Admin Server and the changes= >	are pushed out to the NetID servers.  Here is an editorial nC >	comment on NetID... don't think it is true DNS as we know it.  Ito& >	is a nice GUI wrapper around DNS ... > L >http://www.nortelnetworks.com/products/01/optivity/opt_netid/faq_dns.html#8 >oG >Q: Why would I replace my DNS Servers with Optivity NetID DNS Servers?h >6O >A: The Optivity NetID DNS Server eliminates the need to produce and distributedF >DNS configuration files. Optivity NetID DNS Servers are automaticallyN >configured from the Management Console and receive automatic updates from theC >Server Manager/database. When the DNS Server starts, it builds its O >configuration from the Optivity NetID database. When there are changes made tonN >static addresses in the database, the Server Manager pushes these changes outK >to the DNS Server. When a DHCP Server issues a dynamic address, the Server N >Manager updates the database. From the database, the Server Manager sends the >new address to the DNS Server.n >y4 >	In most cases, you have multiple "master" servers. > ? >	The feature or tool missing in what you describe is of course F >	the method to push the changes to the other VMS servers in realtime. >pE >	The AIX boys nearby used to have a very nice Perl script to provide$A >	this functionality when managing DNS.  Perhaps you can write a c= >	DCL/Perl script to force changes to all your DNS servers int' >	real-time?  Is that the wrong answer?0 >s >				Rob   Actualy, yes :-)  @ With DHCP as you will know a client asks a DHCP server for an IPE address (and other IP stuff like gateway etc.). Once the clients gets B that, the whole thing is rather static. The client will use the IPF address basically as long as it is on line. Usually you will combine a, DHCP server with a DNS server in one system.  F The dynamic updates I am referring to are very different. Let's say weB have a DNS name VMSCLUSTER(.compaq.com), and it is used with a two5 node cluster with IP addresses 10.1.1.1 and 10.1.1.2.a  ? Now what will happen is that every 30 seconds the loadbroker ine@ conjunction with the metric server will check which node has theC lowest load. Then the loadbroker will send the name VMSCLUSTER withiE the appropiate IP address to the master DNS server. So it may well bebD that VMSCLUSTER has IP address 10.1.1.1 now, and 30 seconds later itA has IP address 10.1.1.2. And this this will go on the whole time.)  0 So the Nortel thing is something very different.   Regards,   Dirk        ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 11:54:48 -0800u, From: cdl@deeptow.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)Q Subject: Re: DECtalk A Guide To Voice 1985 First Printing EB 26375 56/06 23 100.0e+ Message-ID: <aqh4q8$67g$1@deeptow.ucsd.edu>d  5 In article <aqdrbj$95b05$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, ) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:U, >In article <aqcq3a$5ar$1@deeptow.ucsd.edu>,0 >	cdl@deeptow.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) writes: >>  9 >> Several DECtalk manuals are available as text files at 1 >> < http://www.tmesis.com/freeware/V5/DECTALK >.i >> t: >> I don't know if the one you are seeking is one of them.5 >> They are only text files, no illustrative figures.iF >> Some of them are peculiarly laid out, landscape on 8.5"x5.5" paper. >> p >e@ >I've got the original books that appear on that site.  They are >8.5"x5.5".m >; >billh  @ Ah, well, that explains it.  By the way, I should have mentionedI that these files are part of Vol.5 of the OpenVMS Freeware CD Collection.o  C A related question:  In the file DECTALK_PROGRMMER_MAN.LPR there isRD a somewhat  mangled copy of Martin Minow's DECtalk support software,B otherwise known as DECUS 11S058.  It looks like an OCR job, exceptE that there are errors that only a copy typist not completely familiar @ with the C language would make.  Like occasional { instead of },/ /* instead of */, and lots of :: instead of ||.   C The question:  Does anyone have a machine-readable copy of the realsE thing?  In two days of spare evenings, I have managed to clean up alllC the code so it compiles with gcc, but I can't see how it runs until- my DTC01 arrives via UPS.        carl -- 2>         carl lowenstein   marine physical lab   u.c. san diego>                                           clowenstein@ucsd.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:15:57 +0100a: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>  Subject: Re: Disk usage analysis/ Message-ID: <aqfkqn$avs1@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>l   labadie wrote:  D > and with Vms 7.3-1, it comes with Vms, you do not have to get it ! >  > > Cheers.    E I've just checked the versions and noticed, that V7.3-1 includes DFU 7> V2.7, whereas my version is V2.7-1. But I can find no document= describing the fixes/changes for this eco, can somebody help?    > D > >The DFU utility has the REPORT function, which provides this data > >(used/allocated).? > >DFU is on the FREEWARE CD or get it via the openvms webpages  > >p > >--. > > 0 > >mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards > >  > >Karl Rohweddero > >  > >iT-Ingenieurteam  > >Ellernbruch 11w > >D-38112 Braunschweig- > >- > >Telefon: +49 (531) 515521 > >Mobil:   +49 (172) 5434843  > >Telefax: +49 (531) 5155311 > >E.Mail:  karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.dei > >  > >fr Volkswagen AG > >K-DOE-11C > >0 > >Volkswagen AG > >Brieffach 1811a > >38436 Wolfsburg > >u > >Telefon: +49 (5361) 9-28724 > >Telefax: +49 (5361) 9-71854 > >http://www.volkswagen.dei > >  >r >i >e     -- n  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regardsb   Karl Rohwedder   iT-Ingenieurteam Ellernbruch 11 D-38112 Braunschweig   Telefon: +49 (531) 515521a Mobil:   +49 (172) 5434843 Telefax: +49 (531) 515531.. E.Mail:  karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de   fr Volkswagen AG  K-DOE-11  
 Volkswagen AG  Brieffach 1811 38436 Wolfsburge   Telefon: +49 (5361) 9-28724  Telefax: +49 (5361) 9-71854  http://www.volkswagen.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:56:32 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h  Subject: Re: Disk usage analysis' Message-ID: <3DCC8770.5D9D2C2F@fsi.net>>   Karl Rohwedder wrote:T >  > labadie wrote: > F > > and with Vms 7.3-1, it comes with Vms, you do not have to get it ! > >  > > Cheers. > F > I've just checked the versions and noticed, that V7.3-1 includes DFU@ > V2.7, whereas my version is V2.7-1. But I can find no document? > describing the fixes/changes for this eco, can somebody help?o  F V2.7-1 was issued as two executables only, no doc.'s, AFAIK. At least,? that's how I received it from Ton back in summer or so of 2000.   E To my knowledge, the primary bug fix was with the ability to use file B lists with the SET command (didn't work in V2.7, works in V2.7-1).  H I needed that for a site I was on so the backup date recording could run- asynchronously to (after) the actual BACKUPs.    See:2 http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/dfu027_free.zip4 http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/dfufree27eco1.zip   -- f David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:52:44 +0100t2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)  Subject: Re: Disk usage analysis; Message-ID: <3dcbddcc.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>>  ; Karl Rohwedder (extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de) wrote:c > labadie wrote:F > > and with Vms 7.3-1, it comes with Vms, you do not have to get it ! >>G > I've just checked the versions and noticed, that V7.3-1 includes DFU  @ > V2.7, whereas my version is V2.7-1. But I can find no document? > describing the fixes/changes for this eco, can somebody help?a  4 I thought that I too have 2.7-1, but apparently not:  ! DFU> HELP DFU New_Features_V2.7-As   DFUb     New_Features_V2.7-AP  8     This version of DFU has the following new features :  -        o DELETE/DIR/TREE performance improvedf9        o Added DIRECTORY/REBUILD_MFD to repair 000000.DIRo,        o SEARCH/ORGANIZATION qualifier added)        o SEARCH/NAME_TYPE qualifier addedn=        o SET/(NO)BCK added to change the files's nobackup bit   !     The following bugs are fixed:           o Several ACCVIO'sb-        o Problems with large BITMAP.SYS files 0        o Directory corruption after DIR/COMPRESS/        o Several problems with DELETE/DIRECTORYm0        o Better handling of indirect input files   cu,    Martin -- oJ One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de-J One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:25:07 +00003( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Email Filterv) Message-ID: <3DCB82F3.D21D88D9@127.0.0.1>    rationalfan wrote: > G > I am looking for some ideals for SPAM filtering on an OpenVMS machinebK > running Apache (Compaq Secure Web) with SMTP mail service.  What programsaD > are available, or how hard would this be to write myself?  Thanks.   http://www.madgoat.com/   H MX is Message eXchange, for any TCPIP package for VMS, 5.5-2 and up, VAX# and Alpha, standalone or clustered.   @ 4.2 is the freeware version that doesn't give you the filtering.  F 5.3 is the commercial product although it is quite reasonably priced IG understand. It comes with realtime blackhole lookups, relay prevention,eF domain verification, a small set of preset filters, and a configurableF rejection manager based on headers and rules for matching, e.g. a loadD of blanks paces inbetween works, a mailer called the bat... etc. You& need to 'teach' the rejection manager.  C If you wanted to filter on message body, the DELIVER is what to use  (previously referred to).   D I don't think there are any hobbyist options on it, which is a pity.   -- m? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comi   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:36:03 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)u8 Subject: Re: Fabio's A-Z questions to HP (Year 2003) !!!+ Message-ID: <aqgb3j$btb$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>n  c In article <nMQckILarrow@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:tr >In article <20021107190801.43777.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes: >> l7 >> h) Does OpenVMS will have C++ as a bundled product ?u >>H >   I don't know any OS other than Mac that bundles C++.  Of course, youF >   can always get it free from GNU just like a Linux repackager does. > ? VMS has lots of very good compilers on the layered product CDs.SN If you are a hobbyist you get the licenses free and although the C++ media is G not on the hobbyist CD (lack of space) it is one of the few products a i# hobbyist can download from the net.   D ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/C-CXX/OpenVMS/cxx/beta/ftindex.htmH (This is the official link which should be used to register and sign the9 license agreement - the software itself is available frome4 ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/C-CXX/openvms/cxx)  P >> l) Does OpenVMS will have a lexical like F$GETUAF to get users informations?  >o% >   Major security hole?  I hope not!c >  Not if done correctly.O There are a number of public domain programs for accessing information from thei- SYSUAF - provided you have enough privileges.d eg   HELP GETUAI    GETUAI  J    The function of this program is to fetch User Authorization InformationL    using the $GETUAI system service in lieu of an F$GETUAI lexical function.  $    Definition and Calling Procedure:  $       $ GETUAI :== $FERMI$EXE:GETUAI&       $ GETUAI  username /qualifier...    orr       $ GETUAI  . /qualifier...9  J    Since GETUAI uses the $GETUAI system service, it should work across VMSN    upgrades unlike GETUAF which reads and interprets the UAF records directly.   GETUAI     Privileges  K      BYPASS or SYSPRV allows access to any record in the User Authorizationo      File (UAF).  I      GRPPRV allows access to any record in the UAF whose UIC group numbern#      matches that of the requestor.n  B      Any user can access any UAF record whose UIC matches his own.  r   > G >> p)Does the OpenVMS queue manager will log in the queues the date and & >> time of the last printed job ? Like >> - >> $ show que sys$print/last >>  G >> Printer SYS$PRINT on SERVER::, last job printed at 07-nov-2002 10:33  >> j' >> With argument in F$GETQUI please....P >e	 >   Cult.O >5  2 This information is logged in the accounting file.      & >> r)Does OpenVMS will support MySQL ? >s= >   Why that speicific SQL?  SQL is supposed t be a standard.r >pI Because it is a fairly popular public domain database. This means you can:A work with sql without having to spend megabucks on Oracle or Rdb.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:01:13 -0600>1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n8 Subject: Re: Fabio's A-Z questions to HP (Year 2003) !!!' Message-ID: <3DCC8889.DBD89480@fsi.net>f   Bob Koehler wrote: > [snip]P > > l) Does OpenVMS will have a lexical like F$GETUAF to get users informations? > & >    Major security hole?  I hope not!  B Assuming it uses $GETUAI and is subject to the same contraints re:H privilege, how does that constitute a security hole? Remember: passwords- are stored hashed, and cannot be unscrambled.g   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:58:59 +0900& From: "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> Subject: Re: ftp questions+ Message-ID: <aqg3p8$hqg$1@news1.kornet.net>   D When I ftp to openvms from my PC, I was prompt to enter a user and aJ password, it's no problem there.  I got an ftp> prompt.  Like I said I wasI able to get files from vms machine to my pc using a "get" command but canmL not put file into the vms machine from my pc using "put" command.  The error	 I got was  TCPIP-E-FTP_NETERR I/O error in network deviceg5 SYSTEM-F-Reject,  Connect to network object rejected.   H I looked at the directory permision in my vms machine where the files isJ written to have RWED for Owner, System, Group and nothing for World.  Does4 it mean, I need to set World to have RW access then? The suggestion you made about, $ REPLY /ENABLE=SECURITY and2 $ SET AUDIT /ALARM /ENABLE=FILE_ACCESS=FAILURE=ALLK I have not try these yet since I am new to VMS and don't know what it would - do to my system and whether I can undo those.-0 If you have any other ideas, please let me know. Thanks  + <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in messagea- news:$eHfDVyxKcEp@eisner.encompasserve.org...c9 > In article <aqdmrr$qeq$1@news1.kornet.net>, "David Lee"  <phongle@kornet.net> writes:L > > I have a couple networking questions that I wonder if anyone can give meH > > some guidance here.  I have a PC running win2k connected to my Alpha> > > workstations running VMS 7.2 (with TCPIP Ver 5 installed). > >mJ > > 1) From my PC, I can ftp to the Alpha workstations and able to use the "get"CG > > command to get files from it to the PC, but unable to use the "put"t commandeI > > to transfer file from my PC to the Alpha workstations, why?? The onlyt thinglL > > I can think of is "the account that I am using on my PC, do not exist onH > > Alpha workstations"  could it be the case? how do I get around that? >m# > What error message(s) do you get?n >rH > My guess would be a file protection issue.  The user name and passwordB > that you are specifying when the ftp client prompts you for userE > name and password does not have write access to the Alpha directoryo? > that you are referencing.  If you are using some hand-holdingo> > GUI client, perhaps it is defaulting you into an "anonymous"= > login on the Alpha.  That would result in read-only access,l> > probably enforced at the ftp server level and never reaching+ > the point of file system security checks.  >v@ > The account that you are using on your PC is irrelevant unlessA > it does not have read access to the files you are transferring.m >uC > If your PC files have sufficiently baroque syntax (e.g. spaces ine5 > the file name), that could conceivably be an issue.> >d@ > Look at file and directory protection with $ DIR /SECURITY and8 > look at audit alarms with $ REPLY /ENABLE=SECURITY and4 > $ SET AUDIT /ALARM /ENABLE=FILE_ACCESS=FAILURE=ALL >b- > (Hope I remembered the syntax right there).v >aL > > 2) From the Alpha workstations, I can not rlogin, telnet, nor ftp to the PC.>L > > I can do the "ping" from either the Alpha or the PC and it executes just% > > fine, what am I doing wrong here?  >	E > If your PC is not running an rlogin server, you can't use rlogin tom > connect to it. >.D > If your PC is not running a telnet server, you can't use telnet to > connect to it. >eG > If your PC is not running an ftp server, you can't use ftp to connects > to it. > I > Out of the box, Microsoft PCs do not run rlogin, telnet or ftp servers.e > D > ICMP Echo reply service is built essentially every TCP stack thereD > is so PING tends to work without you having to install any special > server software. >s
 > John Briggs1   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:21:05 +0000S( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: ftp questions( Message-ID: <3DCBAC31.79E1FA3@127.0.0.1>   David Lee wrote: > F > When I ftp to openvms from my PC, I was prompt to enter a user and aL > password, it's no problem there.  I got an ftp> prompt.  Like I said I wasK > able to get files from vms machine to my pc using a "get" command but cancN > not put file into the vms machine from my pc using "put" command.  The error > I got wasr > TCPIP-E-FTP_NETERR > I/O error in network devicee7 > SYSTEM-F-Reject,  Connect to network object rejected.s > J > I looked at the directory permision in my vms machine where the files isL > written to have RWED for Owner, System, Group and nothing for World.  Does6 > it mean, I need to set World to have RW access then? > The suggestion you made abouti > $ REPLY /ENABLE=SECURITY and4 > $ SET AUDIT /ALARM /ENABLE=FILE_ACCESS=FAILURE=ALLM > I have not try these yet since I am new to VMS and don't know what it would / > do to my system and whether I can undo those.i2 > If you have any other ideas, please let me know. > Thanks   To deactivate the suggestions:   $ REPLY/DISABLE=SECURITY3 $ SET AUDIT /ALARM /DISABLE=FILE_ACCESS=FAILURE=ALL   > You require privileges (SECURITY,SYSNAM,OPER IIRC) to do this.  D If you can log into [interactively] the account and appear to accessG files correctly then it is most likely a privilege or protection issue.r  < The above commands should reveal to you what the problem is.  H What could be happening is that the directory you're trying to access isG not owned by the process you're FTPing into. The LOGIN process may calls@ a command file which enables the appropriate (Authorized but notH default) privilege enabling you to write as a logged in user. It is alsoG possible that an ACL (Access Control List) entry forbids network accesshG to the files, yet allowing interactive access, no privileges necessary.a  E Do remember that directories have file permission settings as well ase the files in them.  @ I would be tempted to question the way this is set up, it is not7 necessarily wrong, but there may have been good reason.t   -- s? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences1 nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:24:02 +0000m> From: Torsten Mattfeldt <torsten.mattfeldt@medizin.uni-ulm.de>2 Subject: Hobbyist License programs under Emulators2 Message-ID: <3DCBACE2.18EB95C3@medizin.uni-ulm.de>  7 I have recently managed to get the following emulators .' sucessfully running under Windows 2000:N   dcll charon-vax (demoversion)  4 These provide many vms-commands and other functions.6 But it is possible to run programs written for vax/vms% under such emulators, e.g. compilers?>  # Specifically: is it possible to run1& the programs of the 'hobbyist license'" under dcll and charon-vax on a PC?   Torstene   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:20:09 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 6 Subject: RE: Hobbyist License programs under Emulators9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEMJGAAA.tom@kednos.com>i  > Well, why not try.  Our PL/I honours the hobyist license. Just download it from www.kednos.com    >-----Original Message----- F >From: Torsten Mattfeldt [mailto:torsten.mattfeldt@medizin.uni-ulm.de]( >Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 4:24 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >Subject: Hobbyist License programs under Emulators  >. >.8 >I have recently managed to get the following emulators ( >sucessfully running under Windows 2000: >  >dcllN >charon-vax (demoversion)E > 5 >These provide many vms-commands and other functions..7 >But it is possible to run programs written for vax/vms]& >under such emulators, e.g. compilers? > $ >Specifically: is it possible to run' >the programs of the 'hobbyist license'u# >under dcll and charon-vax on a PC?  >l >Torsten >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.m; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).sB >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002I   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:44:08 -0500U* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>6 Subject: Re: Hobbyist License programs under Emulators- Message-ID: <3DCC3028.2011.50CDAC1@localhost>   0 On 8 Nov 2002 at 12:24, Torsten Mattfeldt wrote:6 > These provide many vms-commands and other functions.8 > But it is possible to run programs written for vax/vms' > under such emulators, e.g. compilers?  > % > Specifically: is it possible to runc( > the programs of the 'hobbyist license'$ > under dcll and charon-vax on a PC?  E CHARON-VAX isn't a VMS emulator.  It's a VAX emulator, which can run  B VMS (or VAXELN or ...).  So, VMS commands and programming is 100% $ supported, just like the real thing.  E DCL-lite just emulates DCL, and poorly at that.  And doesn't run any s
 VMS software.-  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671a1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comd   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:17:20 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t Subject: HP advertisingaG Message-ID: <47%y9.20000$oRV.2188@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>'  L I was watching a television program last night and at the end of the program: there was a voiceover along with an HP logo on the screen.  K The voice over was "This program brought to you by HP", or words similar tor6 those, followed by a pregnant pause of some 5 seconds.  K It's nice to do 'image' advertising, but how about changing the ads to be "nF This program brought to you by the best business operating system  and4 computer family - OpenVMS and Alphaservers from HP".  0 May as well sell something that'll pay the rent.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 11:24:06 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site6= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0211081124.2e35b7ba@posting.google.com>4  ^ david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<aqg6g6$acu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...e > In article <bGX$XkF9EvN6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:eZ > >In article <01C28635.F1540800@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:L > >> There are already products that do this, ConnX (sp?) comes to mind. TheI > >> availability of these may well be why the VMS guys haven't spent ther > >> time doing one themselves.e > >eC > >It is to the disadvantage of VMS if VMS Development were to takegB > >on the task of driving all the third party software vendors out > >of the VMS business.a > M > True enough. But there is a difference between genuine application softwaren  > and "infrastructure" software.M > Database vendors tend to bundle their own JDBC connectors they don't force i( > you to search for a thirdparty vendor.N > Compaq/HP is RMS's vendor hence they should be providing this functionality. > 9 > This is the same problem VMS has had with TCPIP stacks.,L > Not providing the functionality soon enough allows third party products toQ > appear which then provoke a reluctance for the OS vendor to provide a competing.P > product. When eventually they are forced to they, at least initially, provide N > a barebones implementation so that people may continue to buy the "premier" O > thirdparty products. In the meantime the functionality is bundled with other o1 > OSs and becomes a standard part of a modern OS.h >  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  < and in the case of ucx, they would have saved a lot of time,< money, and headaches if they would have just bought TCPware!   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 03:10:41 GMT   From: "Tom M" <kryios@attbi.com> Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site-- Message-ID: <RWFy9.55439$Lu1.47856@sccrnsc01>h  J And these products probably fulfill the needs of this market.  The primaryK reason one would want to access indexed files from Java would be to add neweF functionality (such as a graphic front-end) to an existing application) system that uses RMS for it's data store.r  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message,* news:01C28635.F1540800@sulfer.icius.com...I > There are already products that do this, ConnX (sp?) comes to mind. TheoF > availability of these may well be why the VMS guys haven't spent the > time doing one themselves. >s > Shane  >m > -----Original Message-----' > From: Tom M [mailto:kryios@attbi.com]r, > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:51 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como > Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site  >m >hH > The most obvious problem with accessing RMS files through JDBC is that > someG > sort of data dictionary is required.  JDBC simply allows you to issue  > SQLrF > statements against a database so you need a means of defining column > namesRH > and data types for fields in the RMS files.  A programmer viewing dataH > through JDBC would also expect to be connected to an engine that could > joinG > data from different files.  Supporting a JDBC connection to RMS fileso8 > essentially requires that you construct a DBMS engine. >  > < > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:jPloAi5B9mc8@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > > In article <3DC8F992.2070308@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK > Consultancy writes:  > > >rJ > > > I don't think that RMS is the same as a DBMS it is more analagous to	 > C-ISAM.n > > >rH > > > But even at this low level its clearly the responsibility of RMS'sH > > > supplier to provide ODBC or JDBC support for it. It is yet anotherF > > > example of HPQ not providing proper support for Java on OpenVMS. > > >tF > > > One of OpenVMS's apparent selling points is RMS, but you have toE > > > get a third party to provide support or code it yourself if you 3 > > > want to access RMS intelligently from Oracle.P > >eJ > >    Unfortunately we're used to it.  There's no simple interface to RMSK > >    features from C like there is from Fortran.  Now that's an extensioneK > >    to Fortran, but one that at least Solaris and HP-UX support in their- > >    f77.  > >uL > >    We're lucky enough that you can access these features from any nativeK > >    language, but Java doesn't currently compile to native instructions.u > > F > >    On the other hand C programmers haven't missed what they're notG > >    accustomed to.  No reason Java programmers should really miss itq > >    either. > >oI > >    VMS has always simply used RMS to support the standard features ofcH > >    the language, with IIRC the exception of the now defacto industryH > >    standard Fortran extensions.  You want to program in C, you get CE > >    I/O, you want to program in Java, you get Java I/O, ...; never 5 > >    mind RMS is their underneath the language RTL.i > >!J > >    But I do agree that a bevcoming-standard interface like JDBC should0 > >    be supported by RMS if RMS is sufficient. > >tJ > >    Anybody know RMS and JDBC well enough to know if RMS is sufficient? > >  > >t >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:53:33 +0100o1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>t Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site 5 Message-ID: <3DCB515D.6BC9DAD8@swissonline.delete.ch>m   Bob Koehler wrote: > b > In article <3DCAC9DD.A9A877@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > > Bob Koehler wrote:J > >>    In that case, Andrew (as usual) is wrong.  There is no standard inI > >>    the Java world crying out for any RMS access not already providedo > >>    by the JDK.N > > R > > However, for those who would wish to standardize development on Java, the onusN > > should be on Digital to provide the hooks to allow access from Java to VMS > > specific features. > >aQ > > The lack of such hooks prevents many from taking Java seriously because theirGD > > needs exceed the "lowest common denominator" that Java provides. > B >    Why?  We use Java for extreemly portable code.  We use nativeA >    compilers for OS-specific code and performance requirements.  > B >    I don't see the need for slow OS-specific code, which is whatB >    you get when you start accessing VMS features from Java.  The) >    language is good, but not that good.t  E And why are things so slow when you access VMS-specific features from, java ?  F Please explain clearly so that everyone understands the limitations of java on VMS.     John   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:07:49 +0100e1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>d Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Sitee5 Message-ID: <3DCB54B5.49A921CE@swissonline.delete.ch>e  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > Bob Koehler wrote: .... > >sJ > >    Unfortunately we're used to it.  There's no simple interface to RMSK > >    features from C like there is from Fortran.  Now that's an extension K > >    to Fortran, but one that at least Solaris and HP-UX support in their  > >    f77.  > >mL > >    We're lucky enough that you can access these features from any nativeK > >    language, but Java doesn't currently compile to native instructions.  > >-F > >    On the other hand C programmers haven't missed what they're notG > >    accustomed to.  No reason Java programmers should really miss itD > >    either. > >q > Z > Well except John McLean who does miss it but who incorrectly attributes its absence to aL > failing in Java and not one that should be leveled squarely at HPQ's door. >   E Not at all.  It is a weakness of java that one is limited to one file B structure and that there is only one kind of calling standard (ie.? stack-based) to external code.  Sun - back in better days - wasrH controlling java and it was Sun who could have created better interfacesD so that additional features could be plugged in at will and at a low level.    8 I'll give you an analogy and change very few letters :-)  E If all that someone has ever driven is a 1975 Lada then they probablyaH haven't missed what they're not accustomed to.   If someone has driven aD BMW (I said I'd change only a few letters !) then they don't want toH downgrade to a Lada.  Ladas have improved in the last 10 or 15 years butD they are still well behind the BMW.  Sun (and others) have been busy3 forcing the equivalent of a Lada onto the IT world.d     John McLeans  F PS.  Sorry it's taken a few days to respond.  I've had plenty of otherH things to do, although I did find time to follow up some leads mentioned! by others eralier in this thread.D   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:17:26 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)  Subject: RE: HP Advocacy Sitep+ Message-ID: <aqg6g6$acu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  c In article <bGX$XkF9EvN6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: X >In article <01C28635.F1540800@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:J >> There are already products that do this, ConnX (sp?) comes to mind. TheG >> availability of these may well be why the VMS guys haven't spent theD >> time doing one themselves.D >SA >It is to the disadvantage of VMS if VMS Development were to take @ >on the task of driving all the third party software vendors out >of the VMS business.m  K True enough. But there is a difference between genuine application software  and "infrastructure" software.K Database vendors tend to bundle their own JDBC connectors they don't force i& you to search for a thirdparty vendor.L Compaq/HP is RMS's vendor hence they should be providing this functionality.  7 This is the same problem VMS has had with TCPIP stacks. J Not providing the functionality soon enough allows third party products toO appear which then provoke a reluctance for the OS vendor to provide a competingsN product. When eventually they are forced to they, at least initially, provide L a barebones implementation so that people may continue to buy the "premier" M thirdparty products. In the meantime the functionality is bundled with other e/ OSs and becomes a standard part of a modern OS.e    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 06:40:11 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Siten3 Message-ID: <NpHta3O38wvU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <3DCB515D.6BC9DAD8@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:  >  > Bob Koehler wrote: >> nc >> In article <3DCAC9DD.A9A877@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:y >> > Bob Koehler wrote:iK >> >>    In that case, Andrew (as usual) is wrong.  There is no standard inmJ >> >>    the Java world crying out for any RMS access not already provided >> >>    by the JDK. >> >S >> > However, for those who would wish to standardize development on Java, the onuswO >> > should be on Digital to provide the hooks to allow access from Java to VMS  >> > specific features.r >> >R >> > The lack of such hooks prevents many from taking Java seriously because theirE >> > needs exceed the "lowest common denominator" that Java provides.d >>  C >>    Why?  We use Java for extreemly portable code.  We use nativevB >>    compilers for OS-specific code and performance requirements. >> -C >>    I don't see the need for slow OS-specific code, which is whatlC >>    you get when you start accessing VMS features from Java.  Then* >>    language is good, but not that good. > G > And why are things so slow when you access VMS-specific features fromc > java ?  E    As an interpretted bytecode language, Java classes are slower thanp    native executables.  D    It doens't matter what you're doing with Java.  It doesn't matter@    whether it's on VMS.  And it has nothing to do with accessing    VMS-specific features.   E    It does have to do with not having a Java to native compiler, liken?    the GNU Java compiler.  But there are plenty of other nativeu    compilers to pick from.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:22:11 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>; Subject: Re: HP Advocacy SiteaI Message-ID: <DEQy9.18888$MGm1.12893@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>V  9 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messages/ news:aqgdli$9o6ba$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...eL >> > That's because DECnet was considered to be the preferred protocol stack forsH > > VMS because it was deterministic and well tested. And because at the time2 > > unix was snake oil or a close relative thereof >hH > That's hilarious.  I am willing to bet that by 1990 there were alreadyE > many more Unix system in use worldwide than VMS.  With many of them @ > doing work as serious as if not more serious than VMS systems.  L I don't disagree with you. Perhaps my words were badly chosen since they areL a paraphrase of what the people at Digital on the VMS side of the house were saying at the time.t     > > so why would anyone want tod$ > > use TCP/IP in a VMS environment. > B > In order for VMS to fit into the computing world along with it's
 competitiors.0  F Exactly the same point I made to Digital when Sun workstations startedK appearing on trading desks - if you can't own the desktop, at least own thes: server, and to do that you have to communicate seamlessly.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:13:20 -0500c0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>! Subject: Re: HP keyboard problems / Message-ID: <3DCC36ED.E450D473@vl.videotron.ca>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > M > The protocol that is used is probably to blame.  I'm guessing they're doingvI > something really slow and stupid to try to minimize errors.  After all,tK > nothing that can be done on a KB is truly "fast" - even the fastest touch|5 > typist is slower than almost any signalling method.i  G I had sensors on my (stationary) bike hooked up to an old keybord for alC cybernex terminal. Every turn of the wheel would generate a letter.4J Unfortunatly, I had not foreseen the issue of static electricity of rubberI tyres rolling on plastic rollers, and the keyboard didn't last very long.a  I So I put in a good old VT220 terminal, only to find out that triggering a5J letter no longer worked because the LK201 keyboard's logic was too slow. IL think it was a serial protocol between the keyboard and terminal, whereas on& the XL84, it was a parralel interface.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:45:38 -0500(0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: HP Serviceg/ Message-ID: <3DCC3070.BA6AC1ED@vl.videotron.ca>1   John Eisenschmidt wrote:F > It looks like I'll be married to my pager until next week, and I getE > the added bonus of watching VMS MONITOR for the rest of today as we6* > attempt to turn hamburger back into cow.  J Sounds like Data General service. At an old job, when they brought in thatM junk against my recommendations, I had fun watching them install the machine.iK (they had promised to do everything). Took them a few WEEKS to install that.N stuff, and they had to borrow a 9 track tape drive from another customer (theyM didn't have any in their own offices) because the distribution media had beeneA shipped on 9 tracks  but we had DG's proprietary TK70 equivalent.e  H As soon as they finally got it installed, they had to change the machineM because it was nowhere near as powerful as was needed to run their constantlygJ crashing CEO package. Meanwhile the all-mighty Microvax II was still beingM used for the serious stuff by the 12 people in that office (with only 16 megsu+ of memory and an RD54 (154 meg) disk drive.   J The DG folks not only lacked spare parts, but also testing equipment. TheyM spent most of a week on the phone trying to find out why the old 9 track tape M drive (refrigirator size) wouldn't work on the small DG machine, and they had 3 no voltmeters, no scopes, nothing but screwdrivers.     / Sounds like HP is somewhere between DG and DEC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:38:42 -0600u1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>c> Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It' Message-ID: <3DCB31C2.2F52F0C2@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3DC9DC39.AE36FB2B@fsi.net...a > > John Smith wrote:  > > >s> > > > "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in messageE > > > news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB075@tahiti.tinuk.com...p > > > " > > > > -----Original Message-----0 > > > > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]$ > > > > Sent: 06 November 2002 14:09! > > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComoF > > > > Subject: Re: HP World News says You Can't Crack It or Crash It > > > >o > > > >R > > > >B9 > > > > "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messageN2 > > > > news:01C284F8.99103FD0@sulfer.icius.com...M > > > > > Greg Cagle's got news server problems, so he asked me to post these E > > > > > demographics for HP World readership. (Blame any formattingP > > > > problems > > >. > > > [cut...] > > >r > > > >r? > > > > OpenVMS and Alpha EV7 - the wining combination from HP./) > > > >                               ^^^i > > >p  > > > Hope that was a typo John! > > >t. > > > Yep......I spelled 'wining' incorrectly. > >N! > > ...as in "wining and dining"?  > G > Some here might say that the spelling should have been 'whining'. :-)w > G > Why is it so plain to see for most of HP's VMS customers, and that HPnK > doesn't seem to see it at all? Seems to me that corporately they are in a21 > rush to knock back some of Jim Jones' Kool-Aid..  F That's because for some years now, the biz schools have all taught howC to build and sell a business, not how to build, maintain and grow aAD business. The Michael Capellases and Carly Fiorinas of the world areG into virgin territory when it comes to that, and it probably scares thew living shit outta them!   G By nature, we all seek comfort not discomfort, so what is reasonable to  to expect here?    -- 5 David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:37:39 +01001 From: "T.R." <tr303@notmail.com.replace.n.with.h>nY Subject: Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards e3 Message-ID: <2HDy9.52302$I6.4931450@zwoll1.home.nl>d  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messagee* news:01C28665.8C9180C0@sulfer.icius.com...C > Does it have to be an RRD? Or even Digital? In my experience mostiI > Toshiba off-the-shelf SCSI CD roms work with VMS. I'm using a couple ofoI > 24x's I picked up at a PC parts shop a couple of years ago. Mine workedrJ > straight out of the box, but I've heard you might have to set the parity > to on. >- > Shanea > L Interesting! As I'm also investigating this subject, any reports from people9 getting non DEC (toshiba?) CD drives working are welcome!!   -- Tg   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 01:51:24 +0100nB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>Y Subject: Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards s7 Message-ID: <3DCB0A8C.35F5@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>e   T.R. wrote:e > [cdrom players on VMS] 'H > Interesting! As I'm also investigating this subject, any reports from B > people getting non DEC (toshiba?) CD drives working are welcome!  ; I use a Toshiba XM-5701B on a VAX. But there is a list at : -  http://sites.inka.de/pcde/dec-cdrom-list.txt    -- h ME Posted by news://news.nb.nue   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 00:25:40 GMTb2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>Y Subject: Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards l, Message-ID: <aqf0a431dgi@enews3.newsguy.com>  - Diego CLAEYS <diego.claeys@pandora.be> wrote: I > Well, I just try to boot up a 4000-200 with a KZQSA on a PIONEER CD ROMw > without success.  H Is the CD-ROM jumpered to support 512-byte blocks?  Does it even supportL that?  That's the magical piece to the puzzle.  None of my systems currently$ have a DEC CD-ROM installed in them.  I Hmmm, OTOH, if you're connecting to a KZQSA you might have something moreUI picky than the standard box.  I've got a Viking QDT that wouldn't talk toaL anything other than my 2x RRDxx drive, however, I finally found a 8x PlextorL that it liked.  I seem to recall that KZQSA's are a very picky board (aren't they CD-ROM only?).    			Zane/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:34:15 +0100s From: munk@home.nlY Subject: Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards t8 Message-ID: <nhmmsuslpodhutiu4ui73sq0p7u5rm2tp4@4ax.com>  F In my experience Toshiba allways works. No wonder, Digital/Compaq uses the same drives.E Other CD-Rom players may work as well if you can set them to 512 bytemE blocks. The 'normal' size is 4k. Check your Pioneer drive if it has aa. switch or jumper to set it to 512 byte blocks.    0 On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:18:24 GMT, "Diego CLAEYS"  <diego.claeys@pandora.be> wrote:  H >Well, I just try to boot up a 4000-200 with a KZQSA on a PIONEER CD ROM >without success.  >V2 >"Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message+ >news:01C28665.8C9180C0@sulfer.icius.com... D >> Does it have to be an RRD? Or even Digital? In my experience mostJ >> Toshiba off-the-shelf SCSI CD roms work with VMS. I'm using a couple ofJ >> 24x's I picked up at a PC parts shop a couple of years ago. Mine workedK >> straight out of the box, but I've heard you might have to set the parityn	 >> to on.  >> >> Shane >> >> -----Original Message-----t6 >> From: Diego CLAEYS [mailto:diego.claeys@pandora.be], >> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 1:47 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComH >> Subject: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX >> 6000-6xx cards to trade). >> >>
 >> Hi all, >>I >> I'm a OpenVMS hobbyist in Belgium, and I'm looking for a good and fasti >> RRDxx- >> CD ROM to be able to boot OpenVMS from CD.j >>9 >> Even a internal RRDxx from a deffect vaxstation is OK!i >>I >> I have a half-dozen cards comming out a vax 6000-6xx in good state, ifu- >> someone is interested just drop me a mail.e >> >> Many thanks in advance! >> >> >i   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:53:45 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.orgY Subject: Re: I'm looking for a Digital RRDxx CD ROM (near BELGIUM). (+VAX 6000-6xx cards 5) Message-ID: <02110818534503@antinode.org>e  1 From: "T.R." <tr303@notmail.com.replace.n.with.h>pN > Interesting! As I'm also investigating this subject, any reports from people; > getting non DEC (toshiba?) CD drives working are welcome!n  E    I have a Panasonic ("Disk ALP$DKA400:, device type MATSHITA CD-ROMy+ CR-508") in my VMS V7.2-1 AlpSta 200 4/233.i  F    In the Toshiba TXM3401E1 (and, I believe in the similar 3301) thereE is a pair of non-jumpers (easy-cut traces on the board, with big pads,D for a solder blob to re-close) near the SCSI ID selection header, atG least one of which sets the block size to 512 bytes.  I always cut themnE both for use on my VAXsta 3100 model 38.  (A Web search for "Toshiba"WE near "Sun-bootable" should turn up more details, as old SPARCstationsE) also had the 512-byte block requirement.)B  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)o3    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.org.    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547v   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 13:42:05 -0800.! From: donovajf@tvratings.com (jd)1 Subject: JBoss on Alpha VMS 7.3g= Message-ID: <463fbb7a.0211081342.7fa93430@posting.google.com>s  B Let me 1st say I'm a novice at this Java stuff. 20 years in system  management & I'm still learning.  F I have extracted the files for JBoss 3.0.4 /Tomcat 4.1 and ran the jarF file run.jar.Now I have a process doing something with JBoss because I get the final status line of:g  8 15:10:47,092 INFO  [Server] JBoss (MX MicroKernel)[3.0.4* Date:200211021607] Started in 1m:41s:616ms  D Now how do I test that it's working?  I've tried using port 8080 and3 8082 with no luck. Please help this novice veteran.    jd   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:02:20 +01000 From: "Gerhard from Austria" <gerhard@nomail.at>9 Subject: KGPSA-DA (FCA-2354) Support for Alphaserver 1200oG Message-ID: <3dcc18aa$0$24796$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>   B  Is the 2 GB KGPSA-DA (FCA-2354) supported on a AlphaServer 1200 ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:32:42 GMTl( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>4 Subject: Re: Last call for C-Kermit 8.0.206 binaries, Message-ID: <3DCC1F6A.4010507@spammotel.com>   Frank da Cruz wrote:J > We're going to press shortly with the C-Kermit 8.0 CDROM; it's in prettyF > good shape in terms of current C-Kermit binaries for many platforms,H > but there's always room for improvement.  If you can build C-Kermit onH > any platform for which we don't yet have an 8.0.206 binary, we can putH > it on the CDROM if you send it in soon.  You can find the current list > of binaries here:U > 4 >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck80binaries.html > ; > Instructions for making and sending in new ones are here:b > 1 >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/cksendbin.html  > 	 > Thanks!l > 	 > - Franks  N Strangely enough, I just finished building 8.0.206 on OpenVMS 7.2 with TCP/IP 
 Services 5.0.r   I'll upload it right now.    Glad to help out,o Aldern   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 12:06:06 -0500 & From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)0 Subject: Last call for C-Kermit 8.0.206 binaries1 Message-ID: <aqgqtu$evr$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>C  H We're going to press shortly with the C-Kermit 8.0 CDROM; it's in prettyD good shape in terms of current C-Kermit binaries for many platforms,F but there's always room for improvement.  If you can build C-Kermit onF any platform for which we don't yet have an 8.0.206 binary, we can putF it on the CDROM if you send it in soon.  You can find the current list of binaries here:,  2   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck80binaries.html  9 Instructions for making and sending in new ones are here:C  /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/cksendbin.html    Thanks!t   - Frankr   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 14:30:10 -0500b& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)4 Subject: Re: Last call for C-Kermit 8.0.206 binaries/ Message-ID: <aqh3c2$p$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>i  / In article <3DCC0339.8DB24B6F@vl.videotron.ca>,a2 JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: : Frank da Cruz wrote:J : > but there's always room for improvement.  If you can build C-Kermit onJ : > any platform for which we don't yet have an 8.0.206 binary, we can putJ : > it on the CDROM if you send it in soon.  You can find the current list : > of binaries here:r : 2 : I'd be willing to build it for VMS 7.2 TCPIP-5.3 : M : However, is there really any differennce between such a build and one builtU8 : with TCPIP 5.1 which you already have ? (TCPIP = UCX). : E That one wouldn't be essential.  It's more important to get builds oneE platforms that have earlier OS's or, in the VMS case, earlier TCP/IP dC versions than the ones for which C-Kermit 8.0.206 is already built.A  K : Also, just a comment, in the list of OS at the top of the page, just use A; : "DEC Tru64, DEC VMS" instead of "DEC/Compaq/HP VMS" etc. y : $ : Or as a compromise, "DEC/HP VMS".  : L : The word Compaq doesn't belong anywhere near "VMS" and it just make things1 : look far more complicated than they really are.  :tF Understood, but on the other hand if I left it out somebody else wouldK complain.  This way more searches succeed.  Also, it *is* more complicated;mM e.g. DEC OSF/1 and Digital Unix, but Compaq and HP Tru64 (DEC never called iteM Tru64, unless I'm mistaken)...  Plus, if you think it's complicated now, juste1 wait til VMS comes out on IA64.  Then we'll have:t  M  (VAX vs Alpha vs IA64) x ([Open]VMS version) x (TCP product) x (TCP version)e  H How inconsiderate of DEC to complicate our lives by making products thatM never die.  I've got a VAX upstairs running VMS 5.5 that hasn't been rebootedsG in years.  And I don't even feel that I'm tempting fate by saying that.C  K Anyway back to the point -- the binaries we need the most right now are for-K older platforms: Digital Unix 3.x, OSF/1, VMS prior to 5.5, Ultrix versions I prior to 4.5.  The AT&T 3B2.  Solaris prior to 2.5.1.  The Sun3 and Sun4. H Any version of AIX besides 4.3.3.  Any version of AIX, SunOS, or SolarisD with X.25 support.  Older versions of IRIX or DG/UX.  Any version ofL NeXTSTEP, OpenSTEP, ESIX, or NCR MP-RAS.  Unicos... Are there any Crays left
 out there?  K There are also some new platforms I don't have binaries for yet -- QNX 6.1,wI Zaurus, Ipaq...  Oh yeah, and some other new Linux-based PDA (not Zaurus) - from Korea, can't remember its name just now.b   - Franks   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2002 23:59:58 GMT-2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: Old documentation, Message-ID: <aqeupu11dgi@enews3.newsguy.com>  2 In vmsnet.pdp-11 Rob Brown <brown@gmcl.com> wrote:F > I have in my hand a "Vision II 3220 User's Manual" which describes aA > VT220-type terminal from Lanpar Technologies (or maybe NortherngB > Technologies, both names are used).  Probably around 100 sheets,C > two-sided.  Is there any repository that would like to have this?:  J Try contacting the owner of http://www.vt100.net as that seems the logical place for it to go.t   		Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 03:17:03 GMT:$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: OSU server cache-8 Message-ID: <00A16A1A.B7DE2956@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   In article <craigberry-F064CA.09373107112002@news.directvinternet.com>, "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> writes:e5 >In article <aqdvju$gg8$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,C5 > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote:  >uM >> We'd like to specify a short life from the request time, or no caching, orn  >> something - any suggestions ? >e8 >Read the chapter on caching in Alan Winston's new book.  @ I surely can't argue with that recommendation.  (Thanks, Craig!)   Here's an excerpt:  L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  + FILECACHE REFRESH minutes:seconds | seconds   I Specifies number of seconds for which a document can be served from cachegL without being checked against the on-disk file system.  The default is threeM minutes; you could specify that as 3:00 or 180.  You could also specify it asnN as 0; this would force an on-disk check for every file access, but you'd stillI get some benefit from the cache as the actual file wouldn't be read if itt# hadn't changed since the last time.sL ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  N (This command affects every file ever served.  To deal just with your PDFs, or. for any link of which you are in control ... )    N ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FILECACHE EXCLUDE template  M Don't cache files matching this template.  You can have multiple instances of8N this directive, and all will apply.  By default the HTTP_PATHS.CONF file has a   FileCache exclude *;  K directive in it.  This allows the requestor to force an on-disk lookup of a-M given file by putting a bare semicolon on the end of the path.  This templatesO supports full VMS wildcarding.  If you had a lot of documents that changed veryiJ frequently and getting the most recent version was important, you could do   FileCache exclude */dynamic/*r  C and any directory tree, including userdirs, could have a [.DYNAMIC]rE subdirectory, within which any file would automatically be noncached.f  N ------------------------------------------------------------------------------     That should cover it.    -- Alanb   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:18:06 GMTa9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>  Subject: Re: OSU server cache'? Message-ID: <1b05cb914b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   3 In message <aqe3n7$kt1$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>c=           "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote:2  M > > > We'd like to specify a short life from the request time, or no caching,r > or# > > > something - any suggestions ?x > >kI > > Are the web clients using SHIFT-RELOAD to view? This ought to force aoG > > client cache refresh, but I've sometimes have to manually perform a.L > > clear memory cache - clear disk cache in the browser. Nothing to do with > > the webserver. > H > Yes, that would do it, but only after our customers have got all hot & > bothered & phoned us up.J > We were hoping for a way to prevent our less web-literate customers from > having problems. >  > Chrisg >  >   I Brute force? Change the name of the file each time you regenerate it, andu change the link to match..   -- e
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:37:30 GMT $ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: OSU server cacheq8 Message-ID: <00A16AD5.F9E38EBB@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  i In article <aqgdf3$sfr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:t    J >Thanks - does this affect client-side caching, because I think that's the
 >problem ?  0 [snippage of my server-side cache stuff for OSU]  H >Thanks for this. I don't think server-side caching is the whole problem" >though, or necessarily any of it.J >I think my problem is client-side, or possibly some third-party cache. Do, >these commands affect client-side caching ?J >With any luck I'll get to the bookshop at the weekend, if it's made it to >the UK ...  >d	 >Regards,  >Chris >   I Oops, sorry.  No, that's all server-side cacheing.  Here's how you get anoO expires: header out, which (except for pragma nocache, which you can't do with -8 PDFs) is the only way you can influence the client side.  1 (This is just after what I quoted the last time).S  M -----------------------------------------------------------------------------l  I A related directive is FILEEXPIRE, which sets expiration date and time oncM files.  This will be reflected in an expires: header when the file is served,hN but the internal cache will also honor the expiration set by the directive andI go out to the file system.  This lets you override the cache-wide REFRESH1( setting for the particular file or path.     FILEEXPIRE template EDTC) FILEEXPIRE template CDT+|RDT+ time-offseti  M Template is a fully wild-cardable path specification, which can get down to asK directory, a file name, a file-extension, or all the files beginning with a:N particular string.  The second argument says what RMS attribute of the file toM base expiration upon. (Do a $ DIR/FULL of some file to see these attributes.)oL "EDT" is the expiration date/time of the file as given by RMS.  (This can beM set by the creating program, or inherited at creation time from the RETENTIONaL setting of the disk volume; see $ HELP SET VOLUME /RETENTION for more info.)  M In the second format, time-offset (specified as either a number of seconds ord: minutes:seconds) is applied to the creation date (CDT+) orJ revision/modification date (RDT+) of the file to determine the expiration.M -----------------------------------------------------------------------------r     -- Alanc   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:15:31 GMTe1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>s0 Subject: OT: The lighter side of VMS Engineering6 Message-ID: <n1Ny9.1146$S5.72632@nasal.pacific.net.au>  > 	This might not be new(s) to some, but if you have a few spare; 	minutes, you might have a look into ( TYPE will do ) these <  	files :  SYS$SYSTEM:BIRTHS.MSGHLP  and/or  DEATHS.MSGHLP .  > 	It gets interesting about around the third or fourth page :-)* 	I wonder what is the story behind this...   						Cheers,  Csaba  sI    ----------------------------------------------------------------------eE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehogeE    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.eI    ----------------------------------------------------------------------s;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:59:42 +0000g( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>3 Subject: Re: recommend a data/disk recovery servicel) Message-ID: <3DCB7CFE.46409AC0@127.0.0.1>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:h  J > Has anybody here used a data recovery service that they would recommend?I > I did some quick web searches but most of the hits take me to web sitespJ > that are very PC/M$ centric.  I'd really like to trust my drive and dataJ > to a service that can at least spell VMS without having to spot them the > "V" and/or the "M".o   Vogon International.  < http://www.vogon.co.uk/ (UK site, offices near you probably)  F They started out with mainframe and midrange, and specifically used toE advertise in DEC related publications, when they used to be around. I G understand we've had positive experiences with them. You'll notice they  say "VMS". Good luck.h   -- w? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences- nclews at csc dot com,   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2002 06:13:17 GMTe- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)e@ Subject: Re: SHOW PROCESS/PARENT (was: SHOW PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE)5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dZT8dbUB6nGz@localhost>n  0 On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:03:26 UTC, Phillip Helbig + <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:   O > > > (Actually, I was hoping that SHOW PROCESS/PARENT existed.  :-)  Who else c" > > > has this on his wish list?)  > > H > > I see incredible semantic issues given the VMS habit of ignoring all3 > > after the first four characters of a qualifier:h > >  > > 	SHOW PROCESS/PARENT > > 	SHOW PROCESS/GRANDPARENTv# > > 	SHOW PROCESS/GREAT_GRANDPARENTa5 > > 	SHOW PROCESS/GREAT_GREAT_GREAT_GREAT_GRANDPARENTJ > 2 > No problem: SHOW PROCESS/PARENT[/GENERATION[=n]] > E > In other words, the additional qualifier /GENERATION (with default e0 > /GENERATION=1) allows for more ancestors.  :-)   That'll do it :-)c   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:44:53 GMTh6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>" Subject: Re: smp license per card?B Message-ID: <VVCy9.254$tW4.23684@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  F $ SHOW LICENSE /UNIT_REQUIREMENTS  will show the requirements for yourL configuration, $ SHOW LICENSE displays your installed license PAKs.  BootingI a system short on an SMP license will generate a error message which getsn5 stored in (if memory serves) sys$manager:operator.logH  K The system will boot and you can then log in to enter the license PAK whichr3 you should have done before installing the new CPU.e    . "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote in messageI news:09AECF17AD8A2EB8.85053A913299723C.49CDEE1C31A896C4@lp.airnews.net...hA > How do I tell if we have loaded enough licenses (OPENVMS-ALPHA)b >o* > to run all of the smp cards in a system? >h? > Is there a way in SDa or what-have-you to tell that all cardsa >s= > are running... a show cpu is a hardware list not loaded o/ss >  > licenses is it not?t >  >t   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 12:53:30 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eA Subject: Re: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS related 3 Message-ID: <M7EIMXKa$PZo@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  W In article <01C28712.C346BFB0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:l  H > Incidentally, how come there's only 3 "me too"'s on the "please market/ > VMS" issue? 3? THREE? That's a lousy turnout.t  G Because compaquseradvocacy.org burnt their bridges by requiring cookiesd or JavaScript (I forget which).a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:05:28 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>A Subject: RE: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS relateda0 Message-ID: <01C2871F.239B9550@sulfer.icius.com>  E It's cookies. Mozilla has the ability to limit cookie lifetime to thesG current session, would you consider that sufficient security? It should = get you in, without leaving tracks on your machine. If you'rerC uncomfortable with that, someone else might use it so I'll list theh
 steps anyway:l   Edit -Preferences --Privacy & security
 ---Cookies  A Check "Limit maximum lifetime of cookies to" and hit the "current D session" radio button. From the http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/ page,E it's "Submit issues" at the top, then there's a link halfway down then1 page "popular issues" under the "Me too" heading.-  A Only three people. I still can't believe it. Three won't have anyr0 effect. We need a flood. Come on people, please?   Shane    -----Original Message-----: From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]( Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:54 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComtA Subject: Re: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS related     < In article <01C28712.C346BFB0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:  H > Incidentally, how come there's only 3 "me too"'s on the "please market/ > VMS" issue? 3? THREE? That's a lousy turnout.s  G Because compaquseradvocacy.org burnt their bridges by requiring cookieso or JavaScript (I forget which).t   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 17:16:38 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)rA Subject: RE: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS related 3 Message-ID: <ojgtE+o4Ihq6@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  W In article <01C2871F.239B9550@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:iG > It's cookies. Mozilla has the ability to limit cookie lifetime to thes? > current session, would you consider that sufficient security?y  E No.  They fact that they ask (rather than program correctly) is quite  off-putting.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:33:34 -0600y7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> A Subject: Re: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS relatedeG Message-ID: <craigberry-4E5C02.15333408112002@news.directvinternet.com>r  0 In article <01C2871F.239B9550@sulfer.icius.com>,&  Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:  -/ > From the http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/ page,:# > it's "Submit issues" at the top, e  G Then you have to either fill out a user profile or choose "I'll submit O my profile later".  H Then under the rubric of "Submit an Issue Now" you have to click on the   link labeled "submit any issue".  & > then there's a link halfway down the3 > page "popular issues" under the "Me too" heading.J  / It's so doggone hard to find I doubt many will.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:09:33 -0500.0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>A Subject: Re: The advocacy site's instapol question is VMS relatedh/ Message-ID: <3DCC360A.A02D943F@vl.videotron.ca>i   Shane Smith wrote:F > The Alpha to IA64 migration potentially offers a wider product rangeD > (for example, OpenVMS Workstations) as operating systems will work > across the IA64 range.  H "Wider" product range ? Alpha has workstations , midrange and big motherL f__ker wildfires TODAY. I have seen absolutely no indication that HP intends: to offer a wider range of machines that are based on IA64.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 12:07:11 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e" Subject: Re: VAX in comp.risks ...3 Message-ID: <CAKZ0qZ00AoI@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  b In article <3DCBF52B.DDFD9D19@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > P > If a real time process is at priority 17, and an interactive process starts at7 > priority 4, can the later really impact the former ? a  B    Yes.  CPU scheduling is one of the few things that can normallyD    change quickly if the realtime process needs it.  For example, ifJ    a disk drive data transfer has started for the timesharing process thatG    transfer must complete before a transfer can start for the same disk     for the realtime process.  H > (OK, I realise that if you lock some file/record, or that if you do anU > ana/disk/repair, it will lock out any process from accessing the blocked resource).8 > N > But in terms of CPU, shouldn't a priority > 16 process really get the CPU it > needs, when it needs it ?   M    Not if the system is above IPL$_RESCHED (3).  The priority based schedulercH    runs at IPL$_RESCHED.  If anything is being done at a higher IPL than?    that for any process the scheduler priority is not relavent.x  K    Generally only very small things happen above IPL 0.  Memory management nF    for rundown of a process with a large working set may be one of theE    slower ones.  Memory managment utilizes IPL$_MMG (8, a synonym for A    IPL$_SYNCH but with a different spinlock) for synchronization.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:37:22 +0000o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>" Subject: Re: VAX in comp.risks ...) Message-ID: <3DCB85D2.7C492332@127.0.0.1>/   Paddy O'Brien wrote: >  > Bill Hobbs wrote:t > = > >... though maybe not in the context we would like to read.x > I > Bill, I agree and with the same love of a certain OS.  But be it VMS or I > Micro$shit, to me the salient point is that we as humans should be able H > to control any computer, not be controlled.  That is what I understood' > of the reason for Larry posting this.3  H Just having VMS is not the complete solution, as Paddy says. VMS systemsD can be badly or wrongly set up, at least VMS gives you the chance to have something reliable.  G Perhaps this should be a warning to those who combine a development andr* production environment on the same system.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 12:24:27 -0600e From: briggs@encompasserve.org1 Subject: RE: Vax Macro Porting - Still Struggling 3 Message-ID: <ELjRCzUiSJGE@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKELJGAAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:oC >From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG] I >>If 0(FP) points to a quadword which points to the procedure descriptor, I >>the value of 0(FP) will have bits <2:0> equal to 0 because the quadword H >>must be naturally aligned.  If bits <2:0> are NOT equal to zero, 0(FP)) >>FP points to the procedure descriptor.   > I > Its not me porting the code, I (unwisely) jumped in.  So, Proc descripsm > are never quad aligned?@  & Just hit the documentation on the web.  @ FP contains an address.  Its low order bits are zero.  It pointsF either to a quadword aligned descriptor or a quadword aligned quadword* pointing to a quadword-aligned descriptor.  G If it is pointing to a descriptor, the first few bits of the descriptortD are PSDC$V_KIND.  They will describe the kind of descriptor and must& be non-zero in the low order 3 bits.    ? If it is pointing to a quadword pointing to the descriptor, therB first few bits of the quadword are part of the descriptor address.G Since the descriptor must be quadword-aligned, those bits must be zero.h  - This works out quite naturally if you assume:   ? 1.  The procedure descriptor kind is never 0 or 8 in a directlyG  referenced procedure descriptor.  8 2.  The procedure descriptor is always quadword aligned.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:52:08 GMTn" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG1 Subject: Re: Vax Macro Porting - Still Strugglingf0 Message-ID: <00A16A94.F95658BF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <vDI5DiPY$vFd@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:aU >In article <zTPlD5G3PFZK@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes: i >> In article <99c3a525.0211071221.636daae7@posting.google.com>, aaron.d.mullens@lmco.com (Aaron) writes:eE >>> Thanks for the previous help.  I have been looking into the AlphasI >>> calling standards.  I am still unsure of what to do.  I was wondering-J >>> if anyone could help me get started on this task by looking at a small@ >>> segment of macro code for me and giving me some suggestions. >>> F >>> ****************************************************************** >>> Initial_FP: .long 0e >>> , >>>   psect $CODE,long,exe,pic,rel,shr,nowrt >>>   , >>>   .entry $Initialize_Tasking,^m<R10,R11> >>  D >> Since someone was apparently attempting to implement a home-grownD >> threads library here, have you considered using a vendor-supplied >> threads library instead?  >sE >Possibly because it would increase the difficulty of the programmingt >effort for the port.9  G I assumed this was a home-grown threads application when the first postyF of any snippet of code appeared.  I ported such an app back when AlphaH first hit the scene.  It really wasn't all that difficult but one needs G to understand the VAX mechanisms well and the Alpha calling standard atl a very good level as well.  I I'd be willing to take on his porting effort if, as Bob Barker would say,P "The price is right".    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa            /5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:27:53 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>i1 Subject: Re: Vax Macro Porting - Still Strugglinge= Message-ID: <d7Vy9.244871$S8.4870554@twister.tampabay.rr.com>p  J I am not sure if anyone brought this up or not, but since this seems to beL an old problem, there may be a longer term solution, if you can wait.  IIRC,I I think I heard that VAX macro will be supported by VMS on Itanium, or atzE least an easier porting method.  I forget the details because we justbJ finished dumping the last of our VAX Macro so I didn't really want to hearH that we did a lot of extra work, that may have been unncessary if we had just waited a while.    3 "Aaron" <aaron.d.mullens@lmco.com> wrote in messaget7 news:99c3a525.0211071221.636daae7@posting.google.com...eC > Thanks for the previous help.  I have been looking into the AlphaoG > calling standards.  I am still unsure of what to do.  I was wondering/H > if anyone could help me get started on this task by looking at a small> > segment of macro code for me and giving me some suggestions. >:D > ****************************************************************** > Initial_FP: .long 0D >2* >   psect $CODE,long,exe,pic,rel,shr,nowrt >e* >   .entry $Initialize_Tasking,^m<R10,R11> >e? >   movl FP,R11                     ; start with the current FP  >?8 > 0$ movl SF$L_SAVE_FP(R11),R10     ;Get the Previous FP= >    tstl SF$_LSAVE_FP(R10)         ;is the FP before that 0?4 >    beql 1$ >t6 >    movl R10,R11                   ;else keep looking >    brb  0$ >h= > 1$ movl R11,Initial_FP            ; record the last FP with.; >                                   ; a nonzero previous FPiD > ****************************************************************** >w3 > I think I should use the LIB$Get_Prev_Invo_Handle-4 > but I do not have any examples of how it should be4 > used.  Any suggestions for porting this chunk from > a Vax to an Alpha. >:   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:19:39 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG1 Subject: Re: Vax Macro Porting - Still Strugglingm0 Message-ID: <00A16ACB.1C8CB650@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <d7Vy9.244871$S8.4870554@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:eK >I am not sure if anyone brought this up or not, but since this seems to be:M >an old problem, there may be a longer term solution, if you can wait.  IIRC,nJ >I think I heard that VAX macro will be supported by VMS on Itanium, or atF >least an easier porting method.  I forget the details because we justK >finished dumping the last of our VAX Macro so I didn't really want to hearDI >that we did a lot of extra work, that may have been unncessary if we had> >just waited a while.t  G Macro will be supported on Itanium but it still does not mean that codecG changes because of specific VAX call frame references will become moot!sG Same if the macro code references Alpha call frame specifics.  Changes,s= regardless of macro support on Itanium, will need to be made.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            g5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:07:29 -0500.0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>A Subject: Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS2002-/ Message-ID: <3DCB387D.9D808F91@vl.videotron.ca>0   Ken Robinson wrote:l > ; > I just noticed that the PowerPoint presentation is now atUF > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/openvms_at_25.htm>. This+ > includes the two videos that were shown. a  1 If you have javascript disabled, One video is at:iL http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/openvms_at_25_files/slide0333.htm   (real player). '  B The outline abuses javascript istead of having simple href= links.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:02:56 GMTo" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGA Subject: Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS2002 0 Message-ID: <00A16A85.B7EA07E8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <3DCB387D.9D808F91@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >Ken Robinson wrote: >> i< >> I just noticed that the PowerPoint presentation is now atG >> <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/openvms_at_25.htm>. Thisr, >> includes the two videos that were shown.  >r2 >If you have javascript disabled, One video is at:M >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/openvms_at_25_files/slide0333.htmt >> >(real player).   / Oh joy, another alientating proprietary format.a  N  C >The outline abuses javascript istead of having simple href= links.   
 Of course. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMH            >5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:03:32 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>iA Subject: Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS2002-' Message-ID: <3DCC8914.4C16ECE4@fsi.net>e   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Ken Robinson wrote:s > >d= > > I just noticed that the PowerPoint presentation is now atrH > > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/openvms_at_25.htm>. This, > > includes the two videos that were shown. > 3 > If you have javascript disabled, One video is at:4N > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/openvms_at_25_files/slide0333.htm  ? Has anyone managed to download just the video for playback at aeE convenient time? All my efforts to hack at it have been unsuccessful.    --   David J. DachteraA dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:26:22 -0500t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>A Subject: Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS2002 / Message-ID: <3DCCAA7F.AEB2A2EA@vl.videotron.ca>a   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:P > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/openvms_at_25_files/slide0333.htm > A > Has anyone managed to download just the video for playback at acG > convenient time? All my efforts to hack at it have been unsuccessful.-  B http://streaming.nonstop.compaq.com:8080/ramgen/vms/VMSOpenerT1.rm  , You can use fetch_http to save the contents.  K My problem is with the PPT presentation. Seems that the embedded videos (at-M slide 3) make the viewer puke and freeze. And if I go beyond that screenm the( images are corrupt.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:08:21 -0500c& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com># Subject: Re: VMS job posting sites?a8 Message-ID: <lddosu4c6l38p89vm6oh7aqp2unj7rfka2@4ax.com>  D On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:20:18 GMT, "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote:  L >OpenVMS.org has a forum specifically for OpenVMS job openings.  In addition@ >there is a forum to pot your resume for potential head hunters.  C Hmm.... you used "pot" and "head" in the same sentence.... is there'$ some subliminal message in this post   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:59:12 GMT-* From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>G Subject: Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NATD, Message-ID: <kbRy9.10747$O71.5436@rwcrnsc53>  D Yes, you want PAT. NAT allows a static translation between an insideK address, and one of a block of "outside" routable addresses. It also allows-D for both inbound and outbound access. PAT allows for multiple insideJ addresses to use a single outside address for outbound access. If you haveK only one outside address, you'll need to use PAT to allow multiple nodes to ) make outbound connections simultaneously.    ML  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KOMQBGJYQMA23BZ7@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...oL > > Most of the lower cost NAT routers support one 'DMZ' port address, whichF > > will allow only one of your machines to be exposed directly to the outside.D > > Usually it's simply a case of entering in the IP address of that specific# > > machine into the router config.  > > F > > With NAT, only the machine entered into the DMZ will be able to be directlyI > > accessed remotely. What you do on that machine to control any furtherlH > > penetration into the 'private side' of your network/cluster is up to you. >0F > With the cluster alias, I have all the access INTO the local networkI > that I need.  The problem is that I need to allow more than one machineuJ > access FROM the network, also simultaneously.  Does this definitely mean > NAT instead of PAT?$ >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:59:48 GMT8* From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>G Subject: Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NATo= Message-ID: <UbRy9.17154$Dc4.60263@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>f  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KOMQHOT3NOA23BZ7@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... B > > My router allows me to direct selected incoming connections to  > > addresses inside my network. > >dG > > For example, you could have port 1223 directed to 192.168.1.10 porthH > > 23, and port 1323 directed to 192.168.1.10 port 23.  This will allowG > > you to telnet to either machine.  Or both simultaneously.  I have a:< > > Belkin cable router which allows this sort of operation. >$F > Right.  I wouldn't do this, just move all connections to the clusterJ > alias.  If I really need to get to a different machine, I can connect up! > and then connect locally to it.o >oF > > As for routing out ISDN and DSL simultaneously, you'll need a much > > more flexible router.0 >i > Why, exactly?   % To decide exactly which route to use.n   ML   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:54:53 +0000 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>iG Subject: Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NATh/ Message-ID: <usnr2rmiuut9bc@corp.supernews.com>.   Phillip Helbig wrote:e  @ > >Consumer-grade routers assume that there's only one "outside" > >address.S >o >iG > That is the case here. The assumption made by consumer-grade routers i> > is probably that I have several machines that need outgoing  > connections AT THE SAME TIME.  >t >eH > >If you're running a commercial-grade router (Cisco, Linux, etc.), youE > >can make routing more complicated.  You can route packets based onaG > >their source and destination IP addresses and port numbers.  You canh8 > >also spend lots of hours messing with routing tables. >f >l# > That's probably MORE than I need.a >  >iF > >I'm not familiar with "PAT".  But NAT (also known as IP Masquerade)F > >should be all you need.  All machines inside your network can reachA > >out to the Internet, and only certain incoming connections are G > >allowed.  This is exactly what I do at my site -- I have 20 machiness6 > >all accessing the Internet through one cable modem. >P >rH > See Mark Levy's response---it sounds like I really need PAT.  Do your I > 20 machines actually access the internet at the same time, or just one e > at a time?   Phillip,  G it's perfectly possible that I've misunderstood the difference betweeen G PAT and NAT (I hadn't heard of PAT before this thread).  The way I takelF it is that PAT is just a proper subset of NAT, having one and only oneI outside address, whereas NAT has a pool of one or more outside addresses.n  H I'd think that your situation would be adequately covered by PAT or NAT;? in the latter case the number of outside addresses is only one.   D As to simulataneous access by all 20 machines, I'd be very surprisedD if *any* PAT or NAT router did not support it.  Certainly my NetgearE ISDN router (RH348) supports exactly what I understand you're lookingw" for, as does Netgear's DSL router.   Oder ?  	 Roy Omondi Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Nov 2002 03:18:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@ Subject: VMS mentioned in Comp.risks article on WA pipeline fire- Message-ID: <87vg37g9aa.fsf@prep.synonet.com>1  : comp.risks has a bit on the NTSB report on the WA pipeline; failure and fire from some time ago. The SCADA system was ar cluster.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:19:35 -06002 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>D Subject: Re: VMS mentioned in Comp.risks article on WA pipeline fire/ Message-ID: <usp6n8ikea6028@corp.supernews.com>e  C Clustering is not the same as Redundancy. SCADA systems are usuallyuE Redundant, but rarely Clustered. Are you sure about the systems being'J clustered? SCADA systems are rarely clustered because of latencies (in the8 distributed lock manager) when nodes come up or go down.  G The systems I've seen in production have all been composed of 2 or moreeF identical systems using software redundancy and some sort of front-endJ communications processor that broadcasts the data received from the remoteJ terminal units (distributed control computer nodes) to the multiple "host"J computers. One of the host computers is "in control" and the other is in aK "hot" standby more, listening to all transactions and ready to take over if1J the "in control" node fails or if either node is commanded to change state
 by a user.  H The host computers use application specific (process peer-to-peer acrossH computers) redundancy methods to ensure that the host computers are bothH using the same configuration information, that their real-time databasesF contain the same information, and that they are both at the same placeJ performing a specific task or ready to take over and perform the same taskK if necessary - working from the same book and page, as it were. Each vendorDF of SCADA systems uses their own redundancy methodology - this is not aE concept built into OpenVMS. This redundancy is EXTREMELY difficult tohL implement reliably. I speak from experience, having designed and implemented7 4 redundant add-in subsystems for the GSE SCADA system.i  I I worked with the GSE (formerly TI) SCADA system for 8 years and with the L Valmet system for 1 year. I'm sure that there are other products and ways to9 implement SCADA, but clustering isn't usually part of it.r   Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT neta  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagea' news:87vg37g9aa.fsf@prep.synonet.com...i >a< > comp.risks has a bit on the NTSB report on the WA pipeline= > failure and fire from some time ago. The SCADA system was a 
 > cluster. >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.cB >                                              West Australia 6076, > comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot0 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:35:43 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>1 Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium not mission critical?n8 Message-ID: <9cfnsuo1o8t7j0l4c01olu2ibam85t68g8@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:39:23 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:c     >sK >Dual- rail, completely redundant, two copies of VMS, etc. That didn't stopaI >thr VAXft from going down when some bozo yankd the wrong power cord at a&+ >DECUS some years back on the Left Coast...   D Yes!  I remember that situation.  It really slowed down the check-in process that year.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 03:08:30 GMT $ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU9 Subject: Re: VMS PHP connect to local Oracle Rdb Databasew8 Message-ID: <00A16A19.86286071@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  d In article <7eb9f7af.0211070603.63e4c19@posting.google.com>, Franz.Lengel@EvoBus.com (Franz) writes:
 >Thanks Alan,6 >.? >Although unfortunately, your analysis is not very encouraging.0 >cD >Is there a portable scripting or programming language which runs on. >VMS and NT and allows similar access to Rdb ? >cF >It might be Java I'm afraid. We haven't got experience with it, untilD >now. And seems to be a lot of sweat to get so far, we are with Perl >now.n  H Java works.  The Oracle JDBC thin client (which says its for Windows NT)K works against Rdb/OCI services, and just today I saw it working in Java on f: VMS and Unix.  I'm willing to believe it supports Windows.   >oC >In Perl on NT we can access Rdb via ODBC. Even generating diagramsC< >based on the SQL query output is easy in Perl thanks to the' >ChartDirector from www.advsofteng.com.  >,F >But, I would like to use same code on VMS and NT, as far as possible.  N If you don't care how slow it is, you can write java apps that take parametersI from the command line, use JDBC to collect the data items, and return the-H results in a form Perl can parse.  (XML, maybe, although that's probablyF overkill.)  You might be able to do this over a pipe, as well as via aO backtick.  This at least gives you the potential of portability to any platforme	 you want.e   -- Alanr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:28:31 -0500d& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: VMS-6.18 Message-ID: <gr3osuca7ok0sboot6asirgk8h1cqtj4sn@4ax.com>  E On 8 Nov 2002 16:01:30 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:   0 >From SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSUPD.CC056]CCXX$STARTUP.COM4 >  (which seems to be about I  get fromt he install) >n: >$ CALL SAFE_INSTALL_SHARED   SYS$SYSTEM:DECC$COMPILER.EXE: >$ CALL SAFE_INSTALL_SHARED   SYS$MESSAGE:DECC$MSG_SHR.EXE  K See JF's subsequent post -- he says you need a BACKUP patch for VMS V6.1. IbA don't know how he knows that, or exactly which patch it might be.c  N By the time an IVP is executed, files normally have been "moved" to the target8 directory. Also, you should not end up with any files inP SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSUPD.product-name] because VMSINSTAL should delete this directoryL before exiting. The existence of this directory indicates, perhaps, that the5 installation is "quietly" aborting (after the IVP?!).-  P Can you run the VMSINSTAL with the "debug" option on (OPTIONS D as P3 and P4) toC get output of what is actually going on? This might be instructive. I -------------------------------------------------------------------------SI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comiI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)iI -------------------------------------------------------------------------M   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:06:10 -0700r From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>h Subject: Re: VMS-6.1& Message-ID: <3DCC5172.2090705@srv.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > A quick question.- > D > I am trying to set up a box real quick running VAX-VMS-6.1 and theC > C Compiler.  The install of 6.1 went just fine but the C Compiler I > install is not working as planned.  It appears to complete successfully-I > but none of the EXE files are present.  Is it possible that the versionlA > of the Layered Products is too new for this version of the OS??0 >  > Any other suggestions??l >  > bill >   ( What EXE file names are you looking for?  3 (Log out/back in after install to reload DCLTABLES)10 What happens if you type 'CC' at the dcl prompt?> Does it ask for a file name, or does it give an error message.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:41:37 -0500t& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: VMS-6.18 Message-ID: <3m4osuseekmofj1tbs26vhp0au9d2tda0e@4ax.com>  I On 8 Nov 2002 18:59:00 GMT, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:   + >> You need a patch for BACKUP for VMS 6.1.i > @ >If I scarf a copy of BACKUP.EXE from 7.1 will it work and solve >this problem??c >c >bille  K NO! NO! Don't do that! It's likely it wouldn't work, anyway (probably won'tn( activate due to image ident mismatches).  N If you are going to assume BACKUP is bad (I don't see any data to support thatL from what you've said so far), look on HP's patch site and download the last patch for V6.1 BACKUP.  H I meant to say in my previous post that DEC C V5.6 is the version I haveP installed on my systems here. The VAX version was originally installed under VAXN V6.2, but still runs under VAX 7.3. The Alpha version was originally installedO under Alpha V7.1 (IIRC) and still works under Alpha V7.3. My kits came from thel CONDIST CDROM's.I -------------------------------------------------------------------------hI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------R   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:43:42 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: VMS-6.18 Message-ID: <lu4osuo3osjg9hnk5a3c2fpn9kud54ke9a@4ax.com>  K On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:41:37 -0500, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote:c  O >If you are going to assume BACKUP is bad (I don't see any data to support that2M >from what you've said so far), look on HP's patch site and download the last: >patch for V6.1 BACKUP.?  F ...and the URL for that site is http://www.support.compaq.com/patches/I -------------------------------------------------------------------------gI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comyI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)rI -------------------------------------------------------------------------a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:08:20 -0600e7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com>m Subject: Re: VMS-6.1G Message-ID: <craigberry-A170EF.16082008112002@news.directvinternet.com>n  8 In article <lu4osuo3osjg9hnk5a3c2fpn9kud54ke9a@4ax.com>,(  David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote:  M > On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:41:37 -0500, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote:l > M > >If you are going to assume BACKUP is bad (I don't see any data to support   > >thatiO > >from what you've said so far), look on HP's patch site and download the last  > >patch for V6.1 BACKUP.m > H > ...and the URL for that site is http://www.support.compaq.com/patches/  
 Specifically,   G <http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/vax/v6.1/vaxback04_061.html>2  D It doesn't say anything about correcting VMSINSTAL problems, but it  might be worth a try.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:42:03 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose? 2 Message-ID: <cXCdnW_hdpI1slGgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message8$ news:3DCB1E48.70803@tsoft-inc.com...   ...   K > 1) Why fund VMS development at the same or an accelerated pace if it's to  fall > off a cliff in several years?   H That's a hypothetical question, I assume:  the idea that VMS developmentG (with the conspicuous exception of the porting work, which there's good L reason to believe Intel may be footing the bill for) is being funded at 'theL same', let alone anything like 'an accelerated' pace, is rather far-fetched.  I There's the COE work, of course, but that has been in process for quite a H while now and abandoning it would not only set off even more alarm bellsJ among the faithful but jeopardize a lot of lucrative government contracts.K But what other *new* development is committed?  Lots of minor improvements,gK to be sure (any of which could get the axe at any time without causing moree= than minor ripples), but where are the Galaxy-class projects?OI Spiralog-class work?  Even, say, a commitment to resurrect fault-tolerant.) VMS features to run on NSK Itanic boards?   3   Wouldn't it be better to cut a bunch of costs andc' > slow down/spread out the development?   I Doesn't that appear to be exactly what has happened?  Though since recentcH VMS roadmaps were not exactly ambitious in the first place, little majorJ change was required:  just the excuse "We're just working on the port *so*3 hard that other things have to take a back seat..."u  K And of course there remains the interesting question of when we're going to-B see any VMS roadmap with dates beyond 2004:  while *any* future HPJ 'commitments' not solidly backed by current funding should be treated withE due skepticism, the lack of even token extended roadmap entries seemsa somewhat ominous.9  *   If VMS development is indeed 'full speedL > ahead', then either there is a reason, or ????, what, even 'idiot' doesn't covert > that?  >rL > 2) So, when did VMS V5.5-2 stop shipping?  Did all VMS V5.5-2 systems stopI > working on that date?  Don't be another idiot.  Even if VMS development- stops atK > some point in time, and things don't indicate that that seems likely, whye wouldrI > a customer have to be moved off VMS at that time?  Seriously, give me au good6 > answer to that question, or stop spreading such FUD.  J I think that has already been answered elsewhere:  a vendor has relativelyH little incentive to provide *aggressive* support once a product has beenI frozen and is no longer actively sold, save perhaps to a few particularlyyE important customers.  Such a change in vendor accountability won't bepI important to some customers, but will likely be very important to others.oE And, of course, there's a third group that will refuse to depend on anB platform that won't accommodate new industry needs as they appear.   ...   L > >>>As to the new customers being shown by HP to the PH-UX door, I am drawn > >>>a > > to a > > L > >>>paraphrase of Henry Ford's comment about the Model T, "You can have anyE > >>>operating system from us that you want, as long as it's PH-UX.".D >3 >3F > Well, seen any black Fords lately?  In what proportion to all Fords?  J The difference, of course, being that Ford *began* with a single model andL then expanded as the industry changed, rather than began with a full rainbowJ of colors and then later decreed that customers would all take basic black and like it.   >  > >>>eF > >>>Given all the cues HP has been giving, if I were you I'd consider > >>>t > > renaming > >6C > >>>your newsletter to "Shannon Knows AIX", and move on to greener0	 pastures.o > >>>nH > >>Does anyone know what other vendors are promising?  Does Sun promiseD > >>to support Sparcs or Solaris past 2011?  Does Red Hat promise to" > >>support Linux after next year? >f >eE > Such reality isn't any fun.  Some would rather be doomsayers.  It'sp
 irrelaventH > that what they're saying is supported solely by more of their doom and gloom,  > and not anything of substance.  K And others would prefer to keep their heads firmly buried <wherever> rathert+ than acknowledge the substance that exists.d  L Did I miss Sun killing SPARC recently, for example?  (Hey, they've *already*I got an Itanic port in hand - no need to wait for it to be completed.)  OrrK acknowledging a recent plan to freeze Solaris that had (quite possibly onlyaI temporarily) been shelved?  Perhaps they've been *secretly* sloughing offiE all their hardware (and much of their software, when you consider howrJ important a percentage of Compaq's remaining software efforts the compilerJ teams were) engineering expertise to Intel; unfortunately, since they onlyH have one major operating system, they didn't have a second like Tru64 to
 throw away...   F The reason that other vendors aren't asked to beat their breasts aboutI future plans and bet-your-company 'commitments' is that they haven't been F caught in egregious lies and broken commitments to anywhere nearly theK degree that VMS's owners recently have been.  Do you seriously believe thatdH HP can continue to ignore such issues without losing what remains of theL enterprise system business it acquired with Compaq?  And do you believe that+ without that business HP can remain viable?e  G Or are you so impressed with the competence of HP's leadership that youlJ believe it can overcome such obstacles and emerge in better shape than theF competition that didn't create them for themselves in the first place?   ...V  F > Well, a good lesson to learn from is the N-VAX.  Discontinued in the	 1995-1997 L > time frame, can't remember the specifics, and a 5-year supply of chips wasJ > stockpiled.  Well, a MicroVAX 3100 model 96 or 98 sold for about $37,000 while F > an AlphaServer 1000A sold for about $18,000.  I hope I don't have to
 detail the5 > differences in capabillity between these 2 systems.s >lD > The bad part of the lesson is the very apparent price gouging that occured.L > They really milked customers that prefered/needed a VAX.  Good way to make$ > friends and keep customer's trust. > F > Then there is the apparent shortage in the planned five year supply. SeemedK > that even with price gouging in effect that there was still a significantg and J > more than anticipated demand for the VAXs.  Have to wonder whether Alpha EV7AH > production will continue, or will they guess at another 5-year supply?  E Yet more good reasons (in answer to the question you posed above) for J customers to start at least planning to migrate no later than active sales of the platform cease.   > J > I really have to ask, and no, I don't know the answer.  Would there have beenH > happier customers, more sales, more profit, and more trust if they had keep theL > VAX in production, even if there was no more development, and sold them at anJ > competitive price, maybe something based upon the relative capability of the VAXd% > with respect to the low end Alphas.   I Of course there would have been (the only possible exception in the aboveuJ list being profit - so the real question is what it would have cost DEC to@ do so).  However, it's in no way reasonable to request that suchB hypothetical systems be sold at a price competitive with Alphas ofB comparable performance:  what they should be sold at is a *margin*I comparable to Alpha margins (which would cause them to lose ground fairlycJ steadily in price/performance, but that's not the primary reason for their existence anyway).  )   Then, if the line was profitable, a PCIeG > based follow-on, with the faster SCSI disks and controllers, Ethernetp > capabilities, and such?e  L Whoops - that would drive up costs (at least minimal additional development,K qualification, etc. - and spread over what would likely be a fairly limitedeH product volume).  Once you start down that road, you might as well startJ considering RISCifying VAX as Intel RISCified IA32 - and while some peopleK might think that was a really neat idea, it's hard to imagine that it wouldPJ have been cost-effective (after all, Intel *had* to do something with IA32J because it had no migration alternative, whereas DEC did at least a decent8 job of making Alpha a reasonable migration destination).   ...h  K > Which might happen when Hammer is selling.  Wasn't there some info here aw whiledA > back about MS running 64 bit windoz on a Hammer, and liking thei architecurek+ > better than IA-64?  Or was that some FUD?   L No, Microsoft committed to 64-bit Windows support on Hammer, just not in theH first .NET Server release (but presumably in an update to that release).J And none other than Dave Cutler voiced his decided preference for Hammer's approach over Itanic's.S   >s >oG > > Intel as a separate entity from HP has only about 1/2 the financialyJ > > investment in the IA-64 project (I stand to be corrected), and as suchI > > doesn't have quite the 'emotional' need to see the project through ifm theyK > > figure their bread is best buttered elsewhere. This would bring HP full C > > circle back to a position where they would have been better off  financiallyhG > > either moving ahead with PA-Risc or Alpha full steam ahead. NeithernA > > architecture has, or would cost as much as IA-64 has or will.n >t >aI > What I can't understand is Intel trying to stick with an obvious (to me  and many > others) dog like IA-64.   K Oddly enough, I have at least a bit of sympathy for them, at least up until1K around 3 years ago.  They had a revolutionary idea (or at least bought intobG HP's revolutionary idea), they worked hard on it, they surmounted major + obstacles along the way, never giving up...o  L Unfortunately, the obstacles were sufficiently daunting that somewhere alongK the way they appear to have taken the 3rd design team (Intel's Merced being H the first team and HP's McKinley the second) and diverted its efforts toK trying to rescue Merced.  So that left McKinley as the only possible saviorVL when Merced turned out to bite the big one big-time.  And then McKinley fellI short as well:  a major improvement, but nothing like what they had hopedfK for (e.g., it was originally supposed to debut at 1.4 GHz, possibly higher,rH and if it had, it really *would* have been a barn-burner, though at wellH over 200 Watts a board-burner as well - my guess is that they screwed upB power projections in some major way and/or used increased parallelL speculative execution in an attempt to increase performance that drastically increased power usage as well).   9   Ok, there is the tendency of some who let success go totL > their head, and begin to feel invincible, and think that they can start toE > dictate rather than compete.  Most leaders see which way the mob is  headed, runlK > to the front, and shout "Follow me!"  Seems to me that if Intel was stilla. > rational and competitive they would do such.  L But there were reasons not to.  First, Intel has taken considerable pains toJ tie up Itanic with patent protection so that no pesky people like AMD willL be able to offer compatible competition.  So if there's *any* chance that itI can bull its way through to make Itanic dominant, it's worth considerabled$ effort before throwing in the towel.  J Second, there is of course pride.  Intel survived a similar debacle in theJ early '80s with iAPX432, which was supposed to bring object-orientation toI the hardware level and snuff all competition.  Instead, it was a completesE flop, and only the ubiquitous popularity of IA32 saved Intel's bacon. G Allowing Itanic to sink at this point would be at the very least highlyMK embarrassing, especially to a company that tries to convince the world thatl; it has no competition (even while acting very differently).>      They may not like to share theL > glory, but without Microsoft just where would they be?  The x-86 CPUs mostI > likely wouldn't be what they are, nor Intel, without MS-DOS and windoz.l >rL > So, with that perspective, why IA-64?  It isn't really suitable for 32-bitL > windoz.  They're possibly thinking that industry standard is spelled I N T E L,L > when in reality it's x-86 and windoz.  Following right in the footsteps of theo" > VAX and VMS people of the 1980s.  ( Probably a fair amount of that attitude.   >hJ > So, are their heads so big that they can't see the possibility of takingG > another's design, that they now have rights to produce, and join withe	 MicroSofteL > to push windoz 64 on Alpha as the next step?  It could be done.  With some@ > software support, like building MS Office and others on Alpha.  L Yes, it could still be done, and it could have been done even more easily 17K months ago.  And, as you commented elsewhere, possibly EV8 could be skippedsF in favor of, say, a dual-EV8-core EV9 (I'm not sure whether the vectorL extensions would be able to make it in, but that wouldn't necessarily bother commercial use much).j  L However, there's the issue of patent protection I mentioned already:  ItanicF is protected, whereas not only does cHumPaq retain rights to Alpha butJ *Samsung* does.  And there's also whatever contracts they may have with HP (see below).   .../  J > > HP would have been better off performance-wise moving ahead with Alpha than > > IA-64 or PA-Risc.O  H But performance all by itself is not particularly lucrative (see DEC and' Compaq for excellent examples of this).    ...l  L > > And HP would have been better off in the market since by bringing higherG > > performance products to market sooner as they would not have had toe changeH > > horses from Alpha to IA-64 on 3 operating systems (VMS, Tru64/PH-UX, NSK),gJ > > which would have enhance profitability rather than being a drag on it.  J Unfortunately, HP-UX may have a larger market than all those OSs combined.1 And HP-UX needed a successor platform to PA-RISC.r  @ For all its faults, Itanic probably runs existing HP-UX binariesG considerably faster than Alpha could.  And since Carly "I think I saw asK seagull!  Put the torches to the boats!" Fiorina ignored her own engineers'pL comments (that PA-RISC might be a better bet after all than Itanic) and soldJ off much of HP's microprocessor talent to Intel just as Compaq did, Itanic> is the only way forward for their primary enterprise platform.   >u >.E > HP is today declared dead products and a hopeful product.  WhateverT happened toH > substance?  - Substance has never been Carly's strong suit.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:15:36 -0500r( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose? * Message-ID: <3DCB1E48.70803@tsoft-inc.com>   A lot to sort out.   John Smith wrote:   / > "John Santos" <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in messagec0 > news:1021107161715.400A-100000@Ives.egh.com... > ' >>On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, John Smith wrote:/ >> >>? >>>"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message ; >>>news:m1ty9.115544$bt.179925@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...p >>>w2 >>>>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageG >>>>news:QlSx9.197587$%h2.53842@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...a >>>>A >>>>>"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in messages= >>>>>news:n9Rx9.106352$wG.405791@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...w >>>>>.D >>>>>>VMS was mentioned a total of ONCE at the analyst briefing last >>>>>>	 > week in- > 
 >>>>>Santa >>>>>- >>>>>>Barbara. >>>>>> >>>>>: >>>>>As in, " >>>>>a) OpenVMS is owned by HP, or) >>>>>b) OpenVMS will be retired by HP, ork; >>>>>c) OpenVMS was acquired by HP in the Compaq merger, orE >>>>>d) something more vague?v >>>>>aJ >>>>Umm, a bit more vague. Marcello was supposed to be at the meeting, but >>>> > had3 >  >>>a >>>a
 >>>>conflict.d    O Maybe he was wooing a big customer/prospect.  Too bad things like this have to h conflict.  So where was Gorham?-  3 Can anybody actually quote what was said about VMS?/   >>>>H >>>>Seems to me (and I could be wrong) that the IPF port proceeds apace, >>>> > COEe > B >>>>ensures 15 years longevity (although support for non Air Force >>>>
 > Generals > J >>>>could end in 2011), and that NEW customers will be encouraged to adopt
 >>>>HP-UX.    O Depressing, but anticipated.  Wonder how many VMS users will accept HP-UX?  My uQ 'idiot warning' is starting to go off again.  Read my lips!  "I will spend money @K on VMS, but without VMS you'll not see anything from me, ever!"  If such a rQ warning fails to get any respect, well, I'm really interested in seeing how they d can deposit/spend 'nothing'.  =  That's about all I got. No info on early retirement, in facto >>>>
 >>>OpenVMS >>>mB >>>>Engineering has been largely exempt from workforce reductions. >>>> >>>-	 >>>Terry,- >>> C >>>What gets me about the 2011 date is that the FTC has a ruling ors >>>n
 > legislation: > K >>>(at least I think it falls under the FTC) that deals with issues of whatRK >>>happens when your car or computer manufacturer discontinues a particularaJ >>>model. The vendor is required to stock parts for repair/replacement for >>>e > a  > K >>>period of 5 years form the date of the product termination. Arguably onee >>>r > cano > I >>>call this 'support'. No new engineering is done, no design defects areeI >>>remedied, they just ship you an identical part to the one that failed.  >>>c; >>>Now lets skip over to software and HP's words about VMS.d >>>u3 >>>Support until 2011...what does this really mean?A >>>@K >>>Does it mean the all new development on VMS ceases in 2006, and that thetH >>>'support' window kicks in after that for the next 5 years. If so, all >>>e > oned > C >>>could expect from HP in 2007-2011 is a new CD of VMS and layeredh >>>a
 > products > D >>>frozen in time as of 2006, and a friendly voice at the end of the >>>e > telephoner > E >>>line asking you for your credit card number and a ship-to address.o >>>oI >>>If this is what HP means by support to 2011, everyone using VMS betteri >>>f > startw > J >>>looking for a different hardware and o/s vendor today so you can finish >>>t > alll >  >>>your porting by 2006.    $ Well, maybe the sky is falling also.  O 1) Why fund VMS development at the same or an accelerated pace if it's to fall  Q off a cliff in several years?  Wouldn't it be better to cut a bunch of costs and  P slow down/spread out the development?  If VMS development is indeed 'full speed Q ahead', then either there is a reason, or ????, what, even 'idiot' doesn't cover 4 that?2  K 2) So, when did VMS V5.5-2 stop shipping?  Did all VMS V5.5-2 systems stop rQ working on that date?  Don't be another idiot.  Even if VMS development stops at  P some point in time, and things don't indicate that that seems likely, why would M a customer have to be moved off VMS at that time?  Seriously, give me a good 94 answer to that question, or stop spreading such FUD.   >>>.C >>I understand this is a "not before" date, not a "not after" date.r >>E >>I.E.  They haven't promised they will continue supporting VMS after B >>this date, which is an entirely different thing than saying theyC >>won't support it after this date.  (This applies to both the 2006f4 >>development cut-off and the 2011 support cut-off.) >> >>J >>>As to the new customers being shown by HP to the PH-UX door, I am drawn >>>h > to a > J >>>paraphrase of Henry Ford's comment about the Model T, "You can have anyC >>>operating system from us that you want, as long as it's PH-UX.".2    D Well, seen any black Fords lately?  In what proportion to all Fords?   >>>SD >>>Given all the cues HP has been giving, if I were you I'd consider >>>2
 > renaming > K >>>your newsletter to "Shannon Knows AIX", and move on to greener pastures.t >>>hF >>Does anyone know what other vendors are promising?  Does Sun promiseB >>to support Sparcs or Solaris past 2011?  Does Red Hat promise to  >>support Linux after next year?    O Such reality isn't any fun.  Some would rather be doomsayers.  It's irrelavent aN that what they're saying is supported solely by more of their doom and gloom,  and not anything of substance.   >> >  > N > Strictly speaking, they don't. The assumption (or leap of faith) by everyoneJ > is that as long as those companies are in business they will continue toM > develop, support, and do everything in their power to expand the market fors0 > those operating systems, without a time limit. > I > With HP there is no real clarity despite all the dates they have thrownn	 > around.n > L > Alpha will die in 2005/06 and they will 'support' (read supply spare partsL > for) Alpha until 2011, unless customers keep clamoring for Alpha, in whichK > case HP will rummage through drawers and old boxes in the warehouse for auB > few old EV69 and EV7 chips in order to build a few more, by then > trailing-edge, Alpha's.e    O Well, a good lesson to learn from is the N-VAX.  Discontinued in the 1995-1997  K time frame, can't remember the specifics, and a 5-year supply of chips was pO stockpiled.  Well, a MicroVAX 3100 model 96 or 98 sold for about $37,000 while pP an AlphaServer 1000A sold for about $18,000.  I hope I don't have to detail the 3 differences in capabillity between these 2 systems.t  L The bad part of the lesson is the very apparent price gouging that occured. K They really milked customers that prefered/needed a VAX.  Good way to make o" friends and keep customer's trust.  M Then there is the apparent shortage in the planned five year supply.  Seemed tN that even with price gouging in effect that there was still a significant and M more than anticipated demand for the VAXs.  Have to wonder whether Alpha EV7 pF production will continue, or will they guess at another 5-year supply?  N I really have to ask, and no, I don't know the answer.  Would there have been P happier customers, more sales, more profit, and more trust if they had keep the M VAX in production, even if there was no more development, and sold them at a  Q competitive price, maybe something based upon the relative capability of the VAX  M with respect to the low end Alphas.  Then, if the line was profitable, a PCI lF based follow-on, with the faster SCSI disks and controllers, Ethernet N capabilities, and such?  If VMS supported some of the PCI SCSI controllers on L Alpha, just how much more work would there be to also support them on a PCI Q based VAX?  Or, if you don't want the development costs, then still consider the tL amount of software out there in use today that will run just fine on such a O system.  Just keep making the same box as long as it will sell.  (Now that's a b  bit more like the Ford Model T.)    M > As to VMS, It'll be 'supported' on Alpha as an EOL product once Alpha's arelL > declared EOL in 20005/06. As to VMS on Itanic, Itanic will probably be EOL > by 2006 as well.    4 Now that's one that has reasonable probability.  :-)    K > If there isn't sufficient uptake of IA-64 by any other company other thansN > HP, Intel will tell HP that they're getting out of the IA-64 business unlessK > HP funds it entirely. And when that happens you'll hear the great suckinghM > sound of Microsoft pulling their developers off Windows Whatever for IA-64.t    P Which might happen when Hammer is selling.  Wasn't there some info here a while L back about MS running 64 bit windoz on a Hammer, and liking the architecure ) better than IA-64?  Or was that some FUD?e    E > Intel as a separate entity from HP has only about 1/2 the financialrH > investment in the IA-64 project (I stand to be corrected), and as suchL > doesn't have quite the 'emotional' need to see the project through if theyI > figure their bread is best buttered elsewhere. This would bring HP fullkM > circle back to a position where they would have been better off financially E > either moving ahead with PA-Risc or Alpha full steam ahead. Neither ? > architecture has, or would cost as much as IA-64 has or will.t    Q What I can't understand is Intel trying to stick with an obvious (to me and many eQ others) dog like IA-64.  Ok, there is the tendency of some who let success go to eK their head, and begin to feel invincible, and think that they can start to  P dictate rather than compete.  Most leaders see which way the mob is headed, run J to the front, and shout "Follow me!"  Seems to me that if Intel was still M rational and competitive they would do such.  They may not like to share the rK glory, but without Microsoft just where would they be?  The x-86 CPUs most iG likely wouldn't be what they are, nor Intel, without MS-DOS and windoz.   K So, with that perspective, why IA-64?  It isn't really suitable for 32-bit dP windoz.  They're possibly thinking that industry standard is spelled I N T E L, O when in reality it's x-86 and windoz.  Following right in the footsteps of the p  VAX and VMS people of the 1980s.  I So, are their heads so big that they can't see the possibility of taking hP another's design, that they now have rights to produce, and join with MicroSoft K to push windoz 64 on Alpha as the next step?  It could be done.  With some o> software support, like building MS Office and others on Alpha.  Q Do they refuse to see a possibile future when computing is CPUs from China, just tP like it is for Intel now?  Well, don't look back, because others are willing to  attempt to pass you.    M > HP would have been better off performance-wise moving ahead with Alpha thana > IA-64 or PA-Risc.r    Q Don't attempt to tell someone anything differing from what they have declared is  L reality.  A waste of time.  What was it in the song, "something until a man 5 hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"?T    J > And HP would have been better off in the market since by bringing higherL > performance products to market sooner as they would not have had to changeL > horses from Alpha to IA-64 on 3 operating systems (VMS, Tru64/PH-UX, NSK),H > which would have enhance profitability rather than being a drag on it.    P HP is today declared dead products and a hopeful product.  Whatever happened to 
 substance?    L > To believe otherwise is foolish. Alpha had 3 proprietary operating systemsE > on it from Digital/Compaq  (VMS, Tru64, NSK underway) a couple from L > Microsoft ( Windows NT and 64-bit Windows beta), and a few 'open' ones tooK > (BSD, Linux). Arguably, Alpha was more 'industry standard' or 'open' thany > anything from Intel.    N Well, reality tells us that IA-32 with windoz is industry standard, so you're  wrong there.  ' Dave, who's just watching at this time.C   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:19:58 -0500t( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?a* Message-ID: <3DCB1F4E.20305@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:   ? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagec+ > news:3DCA84A3.B0306B25@vl.videotron.ca...t >  >>"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:, >>F >>>Well, they have something else in common. They both report to ScottJ >>>Stallard. I doubt that bank and exchanges care about the underlying CPU >>>  > so > H >>>long as the hardware is NonStop. IPF has lockstepping support and the >>>  > port > F >>>is well along. And note that banks.exchanges will be among the late >>>adopters. >>>eK >>If MIPS continues to release new-and-improved versions, then Tandem is in: >> > ai > K >>comfortable position since it can stay on MIPS as long as it takes beforeS >> > IA64 > L >>does the job, or IA64 is officially abandonned and a new chip is selected. >>F >>The final timer has already begun for Alpha. There is nothing in the >>
 > pipeline > I >>post EV79. Should IA64 be abandonned, it would take a very long time to  >> > getn > G >>EV8 going again. So VMS would be stuck on a progressively slower chipII >>(compared to rest of industry) until it can migrate to some other chip.A    T What about just going to EV9 or EV10?  Yeah, it would take a while.  Not impossible.    J >>HP/Compaq made a huge gamble on IA64. It seems that the best payoff that >> > cana > K >>be expected is a "me too" in the 64 bit market, but the worse scenario is G >>killing HP's enterprise systems, except for Tandem which is currently  >>
 > based on >   >>a chip HP has no control over.    < And aren't the Tandem people just real glad about that?  :-)   > K > As they say on Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, "Can you spell bankrupt? Sure, I  > knew that you could."     L Who would have believed DEC going away?  How about Compaq?  Nothing special " about HP, they can be stupid also.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:49:27 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?-, Message-ID: <3DCB2637.2070009@tsoft-inc.com>   John Santos wrote:  ' > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, John Smith wrote:o >  > > >>"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message  I >>>Yeah, but the ram-air-turbine will increase the radar cross signature,  >>>p >>last >>$ >>>thing you want on a J-Stars bird. >>>i >>N >>It's a converted 707 for chrissake. That's about as stealthy as a cubic mile >>of chaff.  >> > A > Doesn't it also have an extremely powerful active radar system?t    	 ROTFLMAO!   P Actually, I'm not knowledgable about current radar technology, but unless there Q is some type of technology where radiated energy isn't easily visable, I'd guess  @ that it stands out like a blazing beacon at certain frequencies.  L The bad guys may be able to see it, but to get to it they must get past the $ Eagles, and that ain't gonna happen.   Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2002 04:30:39 GMTc From: rivie@ridgenet.net- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?r. Message-ID: <aqfelf$m13$1@delphi.ridgenet.net>  > In article <3DCB1E48.70803@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble wrote:P > I really have to ask, and no, I don't know the answer.  Would there have been I > happier customers, more sales, more profit, and more trust if they had s > keep the  O > VAX in production, even if there was no more development, and sold them at a iK > competitive price, maybe something based upon the relative capability of i
 > the VAX O > with respect to the low end Alphas.  Then, if the line was profitable, a PCI  H > based follow-on, with the faster SCSI disks and controllers, Ethernet P > capabilities, and such?  If VMS supported some of the PCI SCSI controllers on N > Alpha, just how much more work would there be to also support them on a PCI F > based VAX?  Or, if you don't want the development costs, then still  > consider the  N > amount of software out there in use today that will run just fine on such a H > system.  Just keep making the same box as long as it will sell.  (Now  > that's a -" > bit more like the Ford Model T.)  I I actually once argued the PCI VAX thing with DEC. They didn't seem to be I terribly interested. The best I could get out of them was a feeler to see9H if I would be satisfied with an ATX form-factor motherboard with severalH CVAX pin-busses available for user interfaces. This at a meeting where IK showed them a PCI VAX executing code (it wasn't doing anything useful, just)L calculating prime numbers in FORTH, but it was doing it in RAM controlled byJ a 2107x chipset and displaying the result on a serial console plugged intoA one of the COMx: ports; i.e., it was actually using the PCI bus).-  I A PCI VAX was possible using off-the-shelf parts. I built one. DEC wasn'tyL interested and the client paying for the project didn't have the wherewithal3 to get VMS running on the thing without DEC's help.-   -- -
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:29:50 -0500e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?0, Message-ID: <3DCBCA5E.2080403@tsoft-inc.com>   rivie@ridgenet.net wrote:k  @ > In article <3DCB1E48.70803@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble wrote: > P >>I really have to ask, and no, I don't know the answer.  Would there have been I >>happier customers, more sales, more profit, and more trust if they had p >>keep the aO >>VAX in production, even if there was no more development, and sold them at a sK >>competitive price, maybe something based upon the relative capability of w
 >>the VAX O >>with respect to the low end Alphas.  Then, if the line was profitable, a PCI sH >>based follow-on, with the faster SCSI disks and controllers, Ethernet P >>capabilities, and such?  If VMS supported some of the PCI SCSI controllers on N >>Alpha, just how much more work would there be to also support them on a PCI F >>based VAX?  Or, if you don't want the development costs, then still  >>consider the WN >>amount of software out there in use today that will run just fine on such a H >>system.  Just keep making the same box as long as it will sell.  (Now  >>that's a  " >>bit more like the Ford Model T.) >> > K > I actually once argued the PCI VAX thing with DEC. They didn't seem to betK > terribly interested. The best I could get out of them was a feeler to seewJ > if I would be satisfied with an ATX form-factor motherboard with severalJ > CVAX pin-busses available for user interfaces. This at a meeting where IM > showed them a PCI VAX executing code (it wasn't doing anything useful, justeN > calculating prime numbers in FORTH, but it was doing it in RAM controlled byL > a 2107x chipset and displaying the result on a serial console plugged intoC > one of the COMx: ports; i.e., it was actually using the PCI bus).o > K > A PCI VAX was possible using off-the-shelf parts. I built one. DEC wasn'teN > interested and the client paying for the project didn't have the wherewithal5 > to get VMS running on the thing without DEC's help.o  t Well, it was the same stupidity at work that caused them to worry about low end VMS systems stealing high end sales.    Q I can hear them right now.  If we sell VAXs, then those are customers that won't hL buy Alphas.  What the hell is the difference?  If you're selling product to P customers, what do you care what product?  The first two rules of business were P forgotten, or never learned, by DEC.  Forgotten, because they practiced them at 	 one time.c    1) The customer is always right!  + 2) When the customer is wrong, refer to #1!o   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:13:57 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a- Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS left out on purpose?nH Message-ID: <VwQy9.18834$MGm1.4610@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagea$ news:3DCB1E48.70803@tsoft-inc.com... >n > & > Well, maybe the sky is falling also. > K > 1) Why fund VMS development at the same or an accelerated pace if it's toe fallH > off a cliff in several years?  Wouldn't it be better to cut a bunch of	 costs andhK > slow down/spread out the development?  If VMS development is indeed 'fullo speedeL > ahead', then either there is a reason, or ????, what, even 'idiot' doesn't covert > that?i    J The por tis funded by Intel (or so the story goes), and that was announcedG on/about June 25, 2001 - the same day Alpha was dropped from succeedingcF generation development. Intel placed a bet on IA-64's success and as aK sweetener to Compaq in the complex deal they agreed to around that time andwE Compaq signed a contract. Since Intel is paying the cost of the port,tE Compaq/HP has nothing to lose by continuing the port, but they have a 8 lawsuit on their hands if they stop - so work continues.  I It's not that Intel thinks that OpenVMS is going to be a volume leader on H IA-64, it was simply a necessary but small consideration in the complete= deal. Intel won't lose any sleep is VMS never sells on IA-64.     L > 2) So, when did VMS V5.5-2 stop shipping?  Did all VMS V5.5-2 systems stopI > working on that date?  Don't be another idiot.  Even if VMS developmenti stops atK > some point in time, and things don't indicate that that seems likely, whyt wouldsI > a customer have to be moved off VMS at that time?  Seriously, give me ar good6 > answer to that question, or stop spreading such FUD.  K I don't know when/if 5.5-2 ever stopped shipping. HP may have a mountain of K 5.5-2 CD's still sitting in a warehouse that the couldn't sell when CONDISTAF and CONOLD cost $1000 per CD. But if ypou have a bug in 5.5-2 and thatK particular function has been superceeded by new/additional functionality inSI later releases of VMS, the answer you will get is upgrade to version x.y.aK Too bad if your app depends on the specific functionality available last inI 5.5-2.  K I'm not saying that a customer necessarily has to cease using VMS, nor am IaH saying that they can't continue to run VMS5.5-2 or 7.3-1 for the next 40I years. I'm just commenting on the likelihood that when you call HP in thebK future for real support (not just another copy of the CD), that nobody will( be there to answer the phone.I   ..snip..  H > > Alpha will die in 2005/06 and they will 'support' (read supply spare parts H > > for) Alpha until 2011, unless customers keep clamoring for Alpha, in whichhK > > case HP will rummage through drawers and old boxes in the warehouse forh a D > > few old EV69 and EV7 chips in order to build a few more, by then > > trailing-edge, Alpha's.  >p >rF > Well, a good lesson to learn from is the N-VAX.  Discontinued in the	 1995-1997oL > time frame, can't remember the specifics, and a 5-year supply of chips wasJ > stockpiled.  Well, a MicroVAX 3100 model 96 or 98 sold for about $37,000 whileuF > an AlphaServer 1000A sold for about $18,000.  I hope I don't have to
 detail the5 > differences in capabillity between these 2 systems.t > D > The bad part of the lesson is the very apparent price gouging that occured.L > They really milked customers that prefered/needed a VAX.  Good way to make$ > friends and keep customer's trust. >pF > Then there is the apparent shortage in the planned five year supply. SeemedK > that even with price gouging in effect that there was still a significantv andcJ > more than anticipated demand for the VAXs.  Have to wonder whether Alpha EV7dH > production will continue, or will they guess at another 5-year supply?    L I'd bet that when HP wants to move their remaining customers to PH-UX you'llL see the prices on anything remaining in the old Alpha inventory and softwareI support contracts skyrocket in price. HP isn't going to keep VMS software L engineering intact just so they can support the last few customers standing.F Fred, et al. will be dumped or turned into unix weenies when that timeK comes. Much as HP seems to like losing money on Wintel business, the knivesh3 will come out pretty fast in the final days of VMS..  K As long as HP does no advertising or marketing to new customer for VMS, theh writing is on the wall.e  A Let me phase it a different way - when you look at the people and G corporations that buy enterprise class or business-critical systems and , stick that on a standard distribution curve,  K a) those at the far right are capable of figuring things out for themselvespI and by-and-large don't need much help (let's call them critical thinkers)oC and that's the kind of organization that would buy VMS today on itsiH technical merits, providing their time horizon on VMS use or the cost ofD using VMS amortized over its expected remaining life is competitive.  K b) those in the middle are swayed by technical considerations, but for whomoL advertising and marketing plays an important role in covering the purchasingK decision butts. So long as that marketing and advertising is done and therehL is a demonstrated, non-time limited commitment to the operating system givenH by the vendor, there is a good chance that o/s will fly off the shelves.  K c) those at the far left of the distribution, I don't know what to say. You  fill in the blank.  C HP is only operating at the far right of the curve as far as VMS isoJ concerned and is showing no inclination to participate in the middle. JustC remember, the attrition rate at the far right of the curve is high.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:56:36 GMTx9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>C* Subject: Re: What is DAP status code 5067?? Message-ID: <f16b31924b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>h  / In message <aqevaq$6pi$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>a5           bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) wrote:d  a > In article <8Gqy9.5$pM4.62526@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Ed Dennison" <ed.dennison@compaq.com> writes:g > >Lawrence, > >oL > >5067 is indicating there is a problem with the size of the DAP buffer. ItK > >would be worth looking at the format of the file being read. What is theeG > >largest record in the file? You could then experiment with the $ SETeO > >RMS/NETWORK_BLOCK_COUNT = n command. A $ SHOW RMS command will probably showmI > >a system default of 8. Does it make any difference if you issue "$ SETa1 > >RMS/NET=127" and then try the Open/Read again?o > >  > >        Ed Dennison > I > Thanks, Ed, that did the trick!  I experimented, and SET RMS/NET=11 wast
 > sufficient.w > O > Where would one find documentation on DAP error codes, anyway?  Just curious.s  L They were on the microfiche shipped in VMS v4 maintenance contracts. I don't$ expect they have changed much since.   >  > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.edul   --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.619 ************************fm theyK > > figure their bread is best buttered elsewhere. This would bring HP full C > > circle back to a position where they would have been(ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê    (ê     )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    	)ê    
)ê    )ê    )ê    
)ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê     )ê    !)ê    ")ê    #)ê    $)ê    %)ê    &)ê    ')ê    ()ê    ))ê    *)ê    +)ê    ,)ê    -)ê    .)ê    /)ê    0)ê    1)ê    2)ê    3)ê    4)ê    5)ê    6)ê    7)ê    8)ê    9)ê    :)ê    ;)ê    <)ê    =)ê    >)ê    ?)ê    @)ê    A)ê    B)ê    C)ê    D)ê    E)ê    F)ê    G)ê    H)ê    I)ê    J)ê    K)ê    L)ê    M)ê    N)ê    O)ê    P)ê    Q)ê    R)ê    S)ê    T)ê    U)ê    V)ê    W)ê    X)ê    Y)ê    Z)ê    [)ê    \)ê    ])ê    ^)ê    _)ê    `)ê    a)ê    b)ê    c)ê    d)ê    e)ê    f)ê    g)ê    h)ê    i)ê    j)ê    k)ê    l)ê    m)ê    n)ê    o)ê    p)ê    q)ê    r)ê    s)ê    t)ê    u)ê    v)ê    w)ê    x)ê    y)ê    z)ê    {)ê    |)ê    })ê    ~)ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    )ê    