1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 13 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 628       Contents: 2002 Worldwide HP OpenVMS Study # Re: 2002 Worldwide HP OpenVMS Study 4 Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangs - Part 2 Atlant's rants...  Re: Atlant's rants... N RE: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from the	 OpenVMS OS?I Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from the OpenVMS OS?  CDROM detection  Re: CDROM detection  RE: CDROM detection  Re: CDROM detection  Re: CDROM detection  Cluster simulation tool  Re: Cluster simulation tool 
 CSWS hangs Re: CSWS hangs Re: CSWS hangs Re: CSWS hangs Re: CSWS hangs Re: CSWS hangs Re: CSWS hangs) Detecting SHADOW/STRIPPED sets in cluster - Re: Detecting SHADOW/STRIPPED sets in cluster - Re: Detecting SHADOW/STRIPPED sets in cluster - Re: Detecting SHADOW/STRIPPED sets in cluster + RE: DS10 600Mhz Special this month USD 3995 / Re: Fabio's A-Z questions to HP (Year 2003) !!! % Re: Finding out who has write handles  Re: Formatting hard disk(s)  Re: Formatting hard disk(s)  Re: Formatting hard disk(s)  ftp and telnet question  Re: ftp and telnet question  Re: ftp and telnet question < Going OT - cheese and bacon (was:Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping) Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: Happy Veteran's Day  RE: Happy Veteran's Day  Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: HP Advocacy Site2 RE: Identifying a MOP load client with DECnet/Plus) Re: Installing VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 3400 ) Re: Installing VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 3400 & Re: It's official. Curly waves goodbye3 Re: Moving IMAGLIB, HELPLIB and STARLTE to Base VMS  Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Patch installation Re: Patch installation8 Re: POP Client for VMSmail (not POP Mail client for VMS)4 POP Client for VMSmail (not POP Mail client for VMS)% Read MO VMS Cartridge on a NON-Vms OS  Sony-SMO-S501-11 Re: Sony-SMO-S501-11 Strange logical name question ! Re: Strange logical name question  Re: symbol substitution  Re: symbol substitution  Re: system calls, RE time  Re: system calls, RE time  Re: TCPIP 5.3:  VAX DHCP server & Tool for testing C/C++ code in VAX VMS* Re: Tool for testing C/C++ code in VAX VMS* Re: Tool for testing C/C++ code in VAX VMS* Re: Tool for testing C/C++ code in VAX VMS8 Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS20028 Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS2002 Re: VMS freeware Re: VMS freeware Re: VMS freeware Re: VMS freeware Re: VMS freeware> Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NAT> Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NAT> Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NAT
 Re: VMS Sales 
 Re: VMS Sales 
 RE: VMS Sales 
 Re: VMS Sales 
 Re: VMS Sales  Re: RE: VMS Sales 
 RE: VMS Sales 
 Re: VMS Sales 
 RE: VMS Sales  Re: RE: VMS Sales  Re: RE: VMS Sales ? Re: VMS V7.2-1 v. Exabyte EXB-8505XL and compression/compaction 4 Re: What EV am I running (family name for processor)4 Re: What EV am I running (family name for processor)5 Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor) 5 Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor) 5 Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor) 5 RE: What EV am I running? (family name for processor) < What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at Montagar?@ Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at Montagar?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:03:30 GMT ( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>( Subject: 2002 Worldwide HP OpenVMS Study> Message-ID: <mJuA9.57894$ku2.3955838@twister.southeast.rr.com>  E Rich Marcello requests your participation in a survey presented by HP   involving the future of OpenVMS.  3 http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=OpenVMS_Study        Ken    --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.org    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:41:57 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>, Subject: Re: 2002 Worldwide HP OpenVMS Study@ Message-ID: <20021113174157.10713.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>   ANSWERED ! ! !     Regards   
 Fabio Cardoso     + --- Ken Farmer <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote: G > Rich Marcello requests your participation in a survey presented by HP " > involving the future of OpenVMS. > 5 > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=OpenVMS_Study  >  >  >  > Ken  >  > -- >  > Kenneth Farmer > http://www.Tru64.org > http://www.OpenVMS.org > http://www.LinuxHPC.org  >  >      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?- U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos  http://launch.yahoo.com/u2   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:16:54 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>= Subject: Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangs - Part 2 ) Message-ID: <3DD250C6.EAF77422@127.0.0.1>    "Hans M. Aus" wrote: > D > I'm back. First and foremost thanks for the help and ideas so far. > J > Quick refresh: I can install a minimum OpenVMS system from a structure 2' > disk but not from a structure 5 disk.   D This is a "me too". 7.3-1, ODS5 system disk with hard links enabled,> tried to install a minimum system to an ODS2 disk, didn't workG (hung/looped). I'll have a hack around as it's not in production yet, I 1 will try with the target disk being ODS5 as well.   E As this device is out on a SAN, to prove to myself there was no issue G with the disk itself, I copied the system disk over and managed to boot  it OK.     --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:04:46 -0500  From: G Everhart <ge@gce.com>  Subject: Atlant's rants...& Message-ID: <3DD2862E.5080004@gce.com>  < The term "liberal" originally meant one who favored liberty.# Jefferson and others were so known. @ Today however, many of us who believe in those values are calledD Libertarian, because the word 'liberal' has come to mean an advocate@ of government and social control of the individual, and lost its< original meaning.  This gets confusing to some because there< are also "traditionalist" people who believe in governmental- control. They are not the same breed of cats.   = So when you see that the vote for various groups, etc., was a ? cause pushed by 'liberals', remember that such is irrelevant to : the modern terms. Today's 'liberals' in Congress seem bent< on trumping free speech with copyright and similar wonderful= tasks. That the AG appears to need to reread the parts of the 9 US Constitution other than Amendment II and consider them = with the same care does not change that. Both are examples of  statists in so acting. Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:48:49 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Atlant's rants.... Message-ID: <3DD29081.84452F90@mindspring.com>   G Everhart wrote:   ) (Nice of you to deem my comments "rants". ) I'll also be happy to check back with you ) in a few years and we can compare notes.)     > > The term "liberal" originally meant one who favored liberty.% > Jefferson and others were so known. B > Today however, many of us who believe in those values are calledF > Libertarian, because the word 'liberal' has come to mean an advocateB > of government and social control of the individual, and lost its> > original meaning.  This gets confusing to some because there> > are also "traditionalist" people who believe in governmental/ > control. They are not the same breed of cats.  > ? > So when you see that the vote for various groups, etc., was a A > cause pushed by 'liberals', remember that such is irrelevant to  > the modern terms. ...   1 Sorry, but while I might accept your argument for 4 the rights as originally written-down in the Bill of0 Rights, there's no doubt in most folks mind that1 "Miranda Rights" were a product of an unabashadly + *LIBERAL* Supreme Court led by Earl Warren. 2 Of course, many people who are foolishly illiberal4 now think it is improper to warn folks of the rights2 provided in the Bill of Rights; they'll never need% that court-appointed attorney, right?     ) Women's access to the Ballot was provided / by a bunch of folks who would now be deamonized 0 as "Ultra-Radical Feminists" or even "Feminazis". in Rush-speak. Men, go home and ask your women8 if they're willing to give up that right just because it/ was secured for them by (shudder!) "Feminists".     1 Blacks' access to the Ballot was written into the / Constitution by a bunch of Republicans who were 4 willing to go to war over this and other issues, but/ thanks to Jim Crow Laws, Blacks actually had no 3 practical access to the ballot until the 1964 Civil , Rights Act, passed by *DEMOCRATIC LIBERALS*.4 And it is that one action that rapidly converted the- Confederacy from a reliable Democratic-voting * block to a very reliable Republican-voting. block. If the Confederacy would, they'd surely3 repeal the 1964 Civil Rights Act. And they may yet; , they've certainly won lawsuits to weaken it.  4 (I realize that it's hard to even *FIND* an African-1 American professional worker up there in ZKO, but 0 come to Boston and I'll introduce you to the any- of the several who work in my little 8-person , work-group; you can ask them how they'd feel about this right.)    . Now, let's talk about access to contraception.- As you'll recall, contraception was basically * illegal or very-heavily-restricted in many* places in America before 1964. That's when) Planned Parenthood of Connecticut brought ( suit against Griswold (IIRC, the State's  Attorney General). Yes, *PLANNED PARENTHOOD*, a *LIBERAL, NOT% LIBERTARIAN* group. And they won, and * now you or I can walk into a store and buy* contraception without having to claim it's' solely "for the prevention of disease".     + Shall we also discuss the 40-hour work week , and labor unions? Or the end of child labor?. Or the few protections you have against having2 your hand chopped off in some monstrous industrial machine?   Or Social Security and FDR?   ! Or Medicaid and Medicare and LBJ?   $ Not a LIBERTARIAN idea in the bunch.  0 All of these ideas are *LIBERAL*, brought to you *BY LIBERALS*..    LIBERAL.   Not Conservative, LIBERAL.  + And you'll miss them all when they're gone.    Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:16:20 -0500 > From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-ALB)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>W Subject: RE: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from the	 OpenVMS OS? M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D032C3DEE@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>   J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C28B40.C3FE35A0  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"   D There are several products that allow this from what I know.  But my	 favorite  - and in use at my company is Attunity Connect. ! http://www.attunity.com/index.htm    :) jck
 John Koska   > -----Original Message-----% > From: sfudge@newfoundlandpower.com  ' > [mailto:sfudge@newfoundlandpower.com] - > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:16 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H > Subject: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from the
 > OpenVMS OS?  >  > H > We have an old legacy application running on the VMS Server that needsB > to access data now being stored on MS SQL Server for integrationD > purposes. Is it possible to access an MS Sql Server database on an- > Windows 2000 server from a openVMS server.? D > Is there an ODBC Driver required? Details (Product, Vendor, Cost)? >  >  > Thanks for any assistance,	 > Suzanne  >   ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C28B40.C3FE35A0  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2654.19"> F <TITLE>RE: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from = the OpenVMS OS?</TITLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There are several products that allow this from what =% I know.&nbsp; But my favorite </FONT> H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and in use at my company is Attunity Connect.&nbsp; =/ <A HREF=3D"http://www.attunity.com/index.htm" = > TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.attunity.com/index.htm</A></FONT> </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>:) jck</FONT> $ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>John Koska</FONT> </P>  8 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>B <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: sfudge@newfoundlandpower.com </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; [<A = I HREF=3D"mailto:sfudge@newfoundlandpower.com">mailto:sfudge@newfoundlandp=  ower.com</A>]</FONT>B <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:16 =	 PM</FONT> 8 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT>I <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server =  2000 database from the</FONT> * <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; OpenVMS OS?</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT> F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; We have an old legacy application running on =  the VMS Server that needs</FONT>C <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; to access data now being stored on MS SQL =  Server for integration</FONT> F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; purposes. Is it possible to access an MS Sql = Server database on an</FONT>< <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Windows 2000 server from a openVMS = server.?</FONT> C <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Is there an ODBC Driver required? Details =  (Product, Vendor, Cost)?</FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT> 9 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Thanks for any assistance,</FONT> & <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Suzanne</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>  </P>   </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C28B40.C3FE35A0--    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:15:54 -0800, From: sfudge@newfoundlandpower.com (Suzanne)R Subject: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from the OpenVMS OS?= Message-ID: <8f01a52b.0211130915.574dd0b5@posting.google.com>   F We have an old legacy application running on the VMS Server that needs@ to access data now being stored on MS SQL Server for integrationB purposes. Is it possible to access an MS Sql Server database on an+ Windows 2000 server from a openVMS server.? B Is there an ODBC Driver required? Details (Product, Vendor, Cost)?     Thanks for any assistance, Suzanne    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:45:38 -0000 < From: "Gordon Pimblott" <gordon.pimblott@uk.thalesgroup.com> Subject: CDROM detection% Message-ID: <aqtvkf$ao1$1@rdel.co.uk>   F Is there a way that I can detect which devices on my systems are CDROM drives programmatically ?    Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:52:27 +0100 ( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> Subject: Re: CDROM detection3 Message-ID: <aqu00d$dgrdj$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>   I f$getdvi and look at the hardware type? You'll need a list of CDROMs, for  example RRD42. --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.ch   G "Gordon Pimblott" <gordon.pimblott@uk.thalesgroup.com> wrote in message  news:aqtvkf$ao1$1@rdel.co.uk... H > Is there a way that I can detect which devices on my systems are CDROM > drives programmatically ?  >  > Thanks >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:10:58 -0500 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>  Subject: RE: CDROM detectionK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B9B@rlghncst964.usps.gov>      <    Check TABLE DCLI-8 that's in the f$getdvi section in the C    DCL Dictionary A-M doc to get the list of devices/return values.   	    WWWebb   I f$getdvi and look at the hardware type? You'll need a list of CDROMs, for  example RRD42. --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.ch   G "Gordon Pimblott" <gordon.pimblott@uk.thalesgroup.com> wrote in message  news:aqtvkf$ao1$1@rdel.co.uk... H > Is there a way that I can detect which devices on my systems are CDROM > drives programmatically ?  >  > Thanks >  >    ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 11:05:15 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: CDROM detection3 Message-ID: <zWFAdA$E70Yt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <aqtvkf$ao1$1@rdel.co.uk>, "Gordon Pimblott" <gordon.pimblott@uk.thalesgroup.com> writes:H > Is there a way that I can detect which devices on my systems are CDROM > drives programmatically ?   E Presuming your goal is to avoid hardcoding for _current_ CDROM drives D and allowing for detection of _future_ CDROM drives without changing the program, it is difficult.   D If the device has a mounted volume, DVI$_SWL will be set.  Of course? that will also be set when a magnetic disk is mounted /NOWRITE.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:36:17 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: CDROM detection. Message-ID: <3DD29BA1.400FDDA6@mindspring.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  F > If the device has a mounted volume, DVI$_SWL will be set.  Of courseA > that will also be set when a magnetic disk is mounted /NOWRITE.   * If it's mounted, it may be ISO-9660 (etc.)+ Those are almost surely CD-ROMs, especially  if the media is "write-locked".   3 I don't recall if DQDRIVER has any code to indicate / "CD-ROM" purely and unambiguously; I think not. 9 It only cared about the specific attributes like "ATAPI", 3 "write-locked", "2K-byte sectors", etc. Those three / together probably = CD-ROM (and all are present 5 somewhere in the UCB), but there may be other devices 1 that can indicate this same state such as certain 4 Magneto-Optical drives with a write-locked cartridge loaded.    I don't know about DKDRIVER.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:27:26 +0530 5 From: "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com>   Subject: Cluster simulation tool/ Message-ID: <ut4f3hbaua8237@corp.supernews.com>    Hi All  F Clustering is one of the important part of OpenVMS systems enviroment.  H I would like to know if there is any tool available which can be used to  diagram cluster in various ways.E I doubt about its existence, but still I would like to give it a try.    OR  H Can you provide ideas as to how such a tool can be build. I have list of$ various hardwares available with me.   Thanks for any help    Sandeep    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:03:22 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) $ Subject: Re: Cluster simulation tool= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0211130903.449fac99@posting.google.com>   l "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message news:<ut4f3hbaua8237@corp.supernews.com>...J > I would like to know if there is any tool available which can be used to" > diagram cluster in various ways.  F The SHOW CLUSTER utility displays most of the cluster data structures,D so that's a good place to start becoming familiar with the availableB data.  For more info, see Roy G. Davis' excellent book 'VAXclustere Principles', and http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/decus_presentations/f2002_cluster_internals.ppt   D For an example of DCL which displays all the SCS paths among all the; LAN adapters on all the nodes in a cluster in the form of a # connectivity matrix, grab a copy of 3 http://encompasserve.org/~parris/show_paths.com and  show_all_channels.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:42:56 +0100 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: CSWS hangs * Message-ID: <aqt3al$cs4$1@news.tudelft.nl>   Hi all,   H I'm running CSWS1.3 on OpenVMS7.3-1. Once in the 1 or 2 days the server ' hangs and I have to restart it maually.   
 The symptoms:   I    Normally 10 proceses (i.e APACHE$00002) are running. When it hangs 10  A more are created. Probably the maximum number of processes is 20.   <    The last entry in the error log is always something like:F [Wed Nov 13 03:27:01 2002] [error] [client 66.138.13.251] client sent @ HTTP/1.1 request without hostname (see RFC2616 section 14.23): /  =    The last entry in the access log is always something like: G 66.138.13.251 - - [13/Nov/2002:03:27:01 +0100] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 400 386     G In most other entries in the access log instead of the 400 is a number   which in th 2xx.   What can be the problem?                  Jouk    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:28:56 +0100  From: "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1>  Subject: Re: CSWS hangs * Message-ID: <aqt60u$o6k$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  4 "JOUKJ" <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote in message$ news:aqt3al$cs4$1@news.tudelft.nl...	 > Hi all,  > I > I'm running CSWS1.3 on OpenVMS7.3-1. Once in the 1 or 2 days the server ) > hangs and I have to restart it maually.   Hello   Go to Wasd, available at http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/  / read the mailling list archive, or subscribe at 3 http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/other/info-WASD.html   = Read the great doc at http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/    Read the book by Alan Winston 9 OpenVMS with Apache, Osu, and Wasd: The Nonstop Webserver   L http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555582648/qid=1037179648/sr=8; -1/ref=sr_8_1/102-5681911-1881767?v=glance&s=books&n=507846    Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:46:43 GMT $ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: CSWS hangs 8 Message-ID: <00A16E47.5D4C4690@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  L In article <aqt60u$o6k$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1> writes: > 5 >"JOUKJ" <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote in message % >news:aqt3al$cs4$1@news.tudelft.nl... 
 >> Hi all, >>J >> I'm running CSWS1.3 on OpenVMS7.3-1. Once in the 1 or 2 days the server* >> hangs and I have to restart it maually. > Hello  >  >Go to Wasd, available at  >http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/  > 0 >read the mailling list archive, or subscribe at4 >http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/other/info-WASD.html > > >Read the great doc at http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/ >  >Read the book by Alan Winston: >OpenVMS with Apache, Osu, and Wasd: The Nonstop Webserver > M >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555582648/qid=1037179648/sr=8 < >-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-5681911-1881767?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 >   G (But if you buy it via openvms.org you'll contribute something to their I operating expenses, and if you buy it via the openvms.compaq.com web page D you'll get a 30% discount, so I wouldn't buy it direct from Amazon.)  M I love the recommendation, and it's possible that Jouk would be persuaded to  O go to WASD by the description of the features in the book, but in fact the book J will not answer his question, which is "Why does 1.3 hang every so often?"  O (The book only goes up to 1.2, where I didn't see that problem.  With 1.3, I am K seeing that problem, and I don't have an answer, although I notice that it  F happens much less often if I crank up the total number of servers.  InK addition, those servers all seem to be sitting happily in LEF at times when N port 80 is totally unresponsive.  The main process is still alive and responds) to a @SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$CONFIG RESTART.)   M According to the notes in HTTPD.CONF the server will act like this if it ever I gets more simultaneous requests than the maximum number of processes it's J allowed to have; this seems consistent with finding more processes runningO than you expected to find when you find it hung.  I'm not convinced that that's K all there is to it; you'd expect the other processes to come back when they 
 were done.   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:53:55 +0100 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: Re: CSWS hangs * Message-ID: <aqtegj$gdf$1@news.tudelft.nl>  % winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:  > Q > (The book only goes up to 1.2, where I didn't see that problem.  With 1.3, I am M > seeing that problem, and I don't have an answer, although I notice that it  H > happens much less often if I crank up the total number of servers.  InM > addition, those servers all seem to be sitting happily in LEF at times when | > port 80 is totally unresponsive.  The main process is still alive and responds > to a @SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$CONFIG RESTART.)  F   I havae not seen the problem with the initial release of 1.2, but I F think it was introduced with the security patches last autumn also in 0 1.2. An upgrade to 1.3 did not give improvement. > O > According to the notes in HTTPD.CONF the server will act like this if it ever K > gets more simultaneous requests than the maximum number of processes it's L > allowed to have; this seems consistent with finding more processes runningQ > than you expected to find when you find it hung.  I'm not convinced that that's M > all there is to it; you'd expect the other processes to come back when they  > were done.I But at the time of the "hang" I see only one request pending. Anyway the  8 server should not "hang" on it but freeing itself again.                      Jouk    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:45:40 GMT + From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: CSWS hangs 1 Message-ID: <8IsA9.9$U35.392347@news.cpqcorp.net>   4 "JOUKJ" <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote in message$ news:aqtegj$gdf$1@news.tudelft.nl...' > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:  > > I > > (The book only goes up to 1.2, where I didn't see that problem.  With 	 1.3, I am K > > seeing that problem, and I don't have an answer, although I notice that  itJ > > happens much less often if I crank up the total number of servers.  InJ > > addition, those servers all seem to be sitting happily in LEF at times whenI > > port 80 is totally unresponsive.  The main process is still alive and 4 responds > to a @SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$CONFIG RESTART.) > G >   I havae not seen the problem with the initial release of 1.2, but I G > think it was introduced with the security patches last autumn also in 2 > 1.2. An upgrade to 1.3 did not give improvement. [snip]  H We're currently investigating a problem where Apache servers hang in LEFL state. If your servers are in LEF state, issue the command: $ tcipip sho devJ (or the equivalent command for the TCP/IP software you're running). Do you; see a number of socket devices connected to port 80 or 443?   
 Rick Barry  Compaq Secure Web Server Project OpenVMS System Software Group  Hewlett-Packard Company 
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:11:03 +0100 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: Re: CSWS hangs 0 Message-ID: <3DD25D77.30407@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>   Rick Barry wrote: 6 > "JOUKJ" <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote in message& > news:aqtegj$gdf$1@news.tudelft.nl... > ' >>winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:  >>H >>>(The book only goes up to 1.2, where I didn't see that problem.  With >  > 1.3, I am  > J >>>seeing that problem, and I don't have an answer, although I notice that >  > it > I >>>happens much less often if I crank up the total number of servers.  In I >>>addition, those servers all seem to be sitting happily in LEF at times  >  > when > H >>>port 80 is totally unresponsive.  The main process is still alive and > 6 > responds > to a @SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$CONFIG RESTART.) > G >>  I havae not seen the problem with the initial release of 1.2, but I G >>think it was introduced with the security patches last autumn also in 2 >>1.2. An upgrade to 1.3 did not give improvement. >  > [snip] > J > We're currently investigating a problem where Apache servers hang in LEFN > state. If your servers are in LEF state, issue the command: $ tcipip sho devL > (or the equivalent command for the TCP/IP software you're running). Do you= > see a number of socket devices connected to port 80 or 443?  >  > F They seem always to be in LEF state : now the server is fine and I see sockets on ports 80 and 443: TCPIP> show dev   >                              Port                       Remote< Device_socket  Type    Local  Remote  Service           Host  9    bg8         DGRAM      520       0                   * 9    bg26        DGRAM      111       0  PORTMAPPER       * 9    bg27        STREAM     111       0  PORTMAPPER       * 9    bg29        STREAM      21       0  FTP              * 9    bg32        STREAM     515       0  LPD              * 9    bg34        STREAM     513       0  RLOGIN           * 9    bg36        STREAM     514       0  RSH              * 9    bg38        STREAM      25       0  SMTP             * 9    bg40        STREAM      23       0  TELNET           * 9    bg42        STREAM     110       0  POP              * 9    bg43        STREAM     443       0                   * 9    bg44        STREAM      80       0                   * 9    bg139       STREAM    6000       0                   *  TCPIP>                             Jouk   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2002 17:42:50 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)  Subject: Re: CSWS hangs + Message-ID: <aqu2uq$pkk@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>   _ In article <8IsA9.9$U35.392347@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> writes: I ~We're currently investigating a problem where Apache servers hang in LEF M ~state. If your servers are in LEF state, issue the command: $ tcipip sho dev K ~(or the equivalent command for the TCP/IP software you're running). Do you < ~see a number of socket devices connected to port 80 or 443?  C 	Since my Multinet expert isn't sitting right next to me right now, B 	and without the standard TCPIP product from DEC/Compaq/HP to viewB 	documentation on what the command cited above actually does, can 6 	you hint at the equivalent command for Multinet v4.4?  C 	I see this situation regularly.  Used to be every day or so, upped A 	my maxclients value from 20 to 60, and now it only happens every G 	week or so.  But it does happen, with all APACHE$nnn processes sitting  	in LEF.  P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560 2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's close C | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't close : | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAIL  	/ \   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:55:29 +0530 5 From: "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> 2 Subject: Detecting SHADOW/STRIPPED sets in cluster/ Message-ID: <ut466kgqqbf8f6@corp.supernews.com>i   Hi All,C  L I want to know how does one detects the devices in shadow/stripped sets in a cluster?  K I tried to club all disk with common volume label as disks belonging to onet single shadow set.L Can someone let me know if this is correct or else how to detect the devices in the shadow/stripped set.-  " Any help will be most appreciated.   Thanks Sandeepr   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 08:15:01 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)06 Subject: Re: Detecting SHADOW/STRIPPED sets in cluster= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0211130815.5d1f6953@posting.google.com>-  l "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message news:<ut466kgqqbf8f6@corp.supernews.com>...	 > Hi All,t > N > I want to know how does one detects the devices in shadow/stripped sets in a
 > cluster? > M > I tried to club all disk with common volume label as disks belonging to onek > single shadow set.N > Can someone let me know if this is correct or else how to detect the devices > in the shadow/stripped set.  > $ > Any help will be most appreciated. >  > Thanks	 > SandeepR  E First, if you have shadowed disks, you will have device names such as0D DSAn:, where n is a number. Next, you can do a SHOW DEVICE DSAn: and7 that will tell you which disks belong to the shadowset.6  ; It makes no difference whether you are in a cluster or not.:  E For striping I assume you are using Host based Striping. In that case D you will have DPAn: devices. You should consult the documentation in  uE ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/private/sms/srs/raiddoc_sav-dcx_axp.exev  2 Download it and execute the file on OpenVMS Alpha.     Hope this helps,  	 Bart Zornv   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 08:25:28 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)g6 Subject: Re: Detecting SHADOW/STRIPPED sets in cluster= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0211130825.6458589a@posting.google.com>h  l "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message news:<ut466kgqqbf8f6@corp.supernews.com>...N > I want to know how does one detects the devices in shadow/stripped sets in a
 > cluster?  B This is an area that is sorely lacking in most OpenVMS performanceF management products today.  It's great to see someone looking into it.  D For host-based shadowsets, you can use DCL lexical functions (or the$ corresponding system services).  SeeD http://encompasserve.org/~parris/shadow$config.com for an example ofD using DCL to gather info about shadowsets, and shadow$display.com orE the abbreviated shad$disp.com for an example of displaying that info.   F For host-based stripesets (aka RAID 0 [or RAID 0+1] arrays), you couldE parse the output from the RAID SHOW command.  See the RAID$CONFIG.COMoA (and RAID$DISPLAY.COM) example command procedures from inside thec= host-based RAID VMSINSTAL kit save-sets from the Consolidatedt> Distribution CDs (or look for these files in the SYS$EXAMPLES:A directory on a system where the host-based RAID software has beenoF installed).  It would be cleaner to obtain this info programmatically,B rather than by parsing RAID SHOW output; if you'd like to do that,  talk to Guenther Froehlin at HP.  ? For controller-based storagesets (mirrorsets and stripesets andm; RAIDsets), you'll have to talk to the controller to get thehB information; OpenVMS just sees the presented units as if they wereE individual disks.  For MSCP-speaking controllers (HSJ & HSD), you canoF use FYDRIVER to talk to the controllers (DECps appears to do this), orB the $SET HOST/DUP command; the CSCs also distribute programs namedC HSDSA-SCRIPT-{ALPHA|VAX}.EXE that allow a set of CLI commands to be0F sent to the controller and the response to be captured in a file.  ForA SCSI (HSZ) or Fibre Channel (HSG) controllers, there is a similarn@ communication mechanism using the SCSI protocol, as used by [theC ancient HSZterm -- SET HOST/SCSI -- and by] the current SAN Commandl Scripter product.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:14:20 -0500s From: norm.raphael@metso.com6 Subject: Re: Detecting SHADOW/STRIPPED sets in cluster? Message-ID: <OFCF67E1E8.9B69E064-ON85256C70.0063D969@metso.com>    Keith,  K I was _shocked_ to see the pervasive use of the "$" in these command files,: even to their very names.r- I was always taught to use "_" instead  ;-) ..  J Thank you for the download url.  Unhappily, the download url for the other two files mentioned was left as an exercise for the student.o  I I notice that the procedure retrieved some shadowset devices that are noth mounted currently as well asB those actually formed, with a label of "" and a member count of 0.  K How difficult would it be to make the _n_  or _nn_ numbers in the labels bee _00n_, _0nn_, _nnn_ so theyt( would show up in "true" numerical order?   -Norme        E keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) on 11/13/2002 11:25:28 AMm  = Please respond to keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)$   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc: 9 Subject:    Re: Detecting SHADOW/STRIPPED sets in clusters    @ "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message+ news:<ut466kgqqbf8f6@corp.supernews.com>...tI > I want to know how does one detects the devices in shadow/stripped sets6 in a
 > cluster?  B This is an area that is sorely lacking in most OpenVMS performanceF management products today.  It's great to see someone looking into it.  D For host-based shadowsets, you can use DCL lexical functions (or the$ corresponding system services).  SeeD http://encompasserve.org/~parris/shadow$config.com for an example ofD using DCL to gather info about shadowsets, and shadow$display.com orE the abbreviated shad$disp.com for an example of displaying that info..  3 http://encompasserve.org/~parris/shadow$display.coms  . http://encompasserve.org/~parris/shad$disp.com  F For host-based stripesets (aka RAID 0 [or RAID 0+1] arrays), you couldE parse the output from the RAID SHOW command.  See the RAID$CONFIG.COM A (and RAID$DISPLAY.COM) example command procedures from inside then= host-based RAID VMSINSTAL kit save-sets from the Consolidatedt> Distribution CDs (or look for these files in the SYS$EXAMPLES:A directory on a system where the host-based RAID software has been F installed).  It would be cleaner to obtain this info programmatically,B rather than by parsing RAID SHOW output; if you'd like to do that,  talk to Guenther Froehlin at HP.  ? For controller-based storagesets (mirrorsets and stripesets and-; RAIDsets), you'll have to talk to the controller to get the@B information; OpenVMS just sees the presented units as if they wereE individual disks.  For MSCP-speaking controllers (HSJ & HSD), you can.F use FYDRIVER to talk to the controllers (DECps appears to do this), orB the $SET HOST/DUP command; the CSCs also distribute programs namedC HSDSA-SCRIPT-{ALPHA|VAX}.EXE that allow a set of CLI commands to beiF sent to the controller and the response to be captured in a file.  ForA SCSI (HSZ) or Fibre Channel (HSG) controllers, there is a similar/@ communication mechanism using the SCSI protocol, as used by [theC ancient HSZterm -- SET HOST/SCSI -- and by] the current SAN Command  Scripter product.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:18:29 -0500t> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-ALB)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>4 Subject: RE: DS10 600Mhz Special this month USD 3995M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D032C3DE9@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>   J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C28B30.4D7AA6D0  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"r  K It will cost you more to run in the long term without the VMS Base license.b <grin>   :) jck
 John Koska   > -----Original Message-----: > From: danco@ns2.pebble.org [mailto:danco@ns2.pebble.org]* > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:54 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come6 > Subject: Re: DS10 600Mhz Special this month USD 3995 >  > > > In article <ustq228vn6fl93@news.supernews.com>, ICUSC wrote:: > > Limited time only, one per customer at special pricing > >  > > DS10 600Mhz EV67	 > > 512MBi > > CDROM and Floppy > > 9GB U2 SCSI Disk > > Ultra2 SCSI Controller > > Dual 10/100 Ethernet > : > Any difference in price if you drop the following items? >  > > VX1 Oxygen 32MB Video PCIt > > Keyboard & 3 Button  Mouse > > VMS Base license >  > - Danq >   ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C28B30.4D7AA6D0  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"d  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>H <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">H <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2654.19">: <TITLE>RE: DS10 600Mhz Special this month USD 3995</TITLE> </HEAD>  <BODY>  o <P><FONT SIZE=2>It will cost you more to run in the long term without the VMS Base license. &lt;grin&gt;</FONT>S </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=2>:) jck</FONT>e" <BR><FONT SIZE=2>John Koska</FONT> </P>  6 <P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; From: danco@ns2.pebble.org [<A HREF="mailto:danco@ns2.pebble.org">mailto:danco@ns2.pebble.org</A>]</FONT>nE <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:54 PM</FONT>m6 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT>Q <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Subject: Re: DS10 600Mhz Special this month USD 3995</FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>t <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>u_ <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; In article &lt;ustq228vn6fl93@news.supernews.com&gt;, ICUSC wrote:</FONT>1X <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; Limited time only, one per customer at special pricing</FONT>" <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>2 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; DS10 600Mhz EV67</FONT>' <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; 512MB</FONT>e2 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; CDROM and Floppy</FONT>2 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; 9GB U2 SCSI Disk</FONT>8 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; Ultra2 SCSI Controller</FONT>6 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; Dual 10/100 Ethernet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>tU <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Any difference in price if you drop the following items?</FONT>b <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT> ; <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; VX1 Oxygen 32MB Video PCI</FONT>eE <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; Keyboard &amp; 3 Button&nbsp; Mouse</FONT>c2 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; VMS Base license</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT> " <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; - Dan</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>g </P>   </BODY>l </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C28B30.4D7AA6D0--    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 03:23:15 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a8 Subject: Re: Fabio's A-Z questions to HP (Year 2003) !!!3 Message-ID: <R6CkpeYy52cx@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  [ In article <3DD1CD77.9E8E81B9@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:   @ >> At least one such problem was addressed by a MUP to VMS V4.4.0 >> The problem had not existed in (C2) VMS V4.3. > D > I remember a very important MUP to V4.4, and may even have he TK50* > around here somewhere (y'never know...). > , > I take it that's been long since fixed...?  H In my experience, the next release created after a MUP includes the MUP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:40:13 +0100r From: "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1>t. Subject: Re: Finding out who has write handles* Message-ID: <aqt35k$mn3$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  9 "Jeremy Ho" <jeho@factset.SPAMBLOCK.com> wrote in messaget+ news:aqrt9r$pl8$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu... L > I would like to see what process(es) have file handles in write mode for aL > particular file, at the VMS level.  I am able to find handles overall to aI > particular file with $ sh dev/files, but I am not able to tell which ofe > those are in write mode. >sC > I've been trying to find VMS documentation for this, to no avail.f >l > Any ideas? >e	 > Thanks,t > Jeremy >s Hellot  F Modify this Sda extension to keep only the writes, or just look at the$ writes in the display (url may wrap)L http://www.compaq.com/support/asktima/communications/CHAMP_SRC010730002768.h tmla  I I have the same thing in Perl, I can post it if you want, but it consumes  much more Cpu and I/Om   Regardse   Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:35:50 +0000 4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: Formatting hard disk(s)8 Message-ID: <4ih4tus3d5705n8vo3u3j6h2ce8c3gq07b@4ax.com>  F On 12 Nov 2002 11:36:51 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  p >In article <q6b2tuss48ja3k03rnhn77aje65l51pjbs@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:M >> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:41:24 -0500, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote:s >>>s >>>It's part of VMS. >>>o >>>$ INIT/ERASE device-name: >> tK >> Last time I checked the documentation for this, it seemed to suggest thetM >> volume was marked erase-on-allocate (my words), not that anything happenedtM >> at INIT time.  A better bet would be ANAL/MEDIA/EXERCISE - you can specifyiN >> the write pattern, so several passes with complete bit-flips ought to erase@ >> any possibility of a "shadow" of the original data remaining. > G >   INITIALIZE/ERASE writes a data security erase pattern on the blocks D >   of the disk.  I've dumped the blocks on some disks to make sure.  L Sorry, brain fade.  (And the Vaxstation under my PC monitor was switched off% at the time.)  You are quite correct.P  3 >   You're thinking of SET VOLUME /ERASE_ON_DELETE.   > No, I was just wrong.  I'm quite clear on the various forms ofK erase-on-delete.  I have been playing about trying to get some generic scsi L disks to work and have tried all varieties of low-level formats and completeK disk read/write exercises.  Somewhere in the dim recesses of my mind is the J reason why I had not utilitised INIT/ERASE, but clearly it was not because it does not do what it implies.8     	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:30:29 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> $ Subject: Re: Formatting hard disk(s)' Message-ID: <3DD28C35.406F14D2@vcu.edu>r  E Are you running into the problem of some bits not being set? like the: correct on read, etc?D   John Laird wrote:c > H > On 12 Nov 2002 11:36:51 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > wrote: > r > >In article <q6b2tuss48ja3k03rnhn77aje65l51pjbs@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:O > >> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:41:24 -0500, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote:  > >>>  > >>>It's part of VMS. > >>>r > >>>$ INIT/ERASE device-name: > >>M > >> Last time I checked the documentation for this, it seemed to suggest thetO > >> volume was marked erase-on-allocate (my words), not that anything happenedCO > >> at INIT time.  A better bet would be ANAL/MEDIA/EXERCISE - you can specify P > >> the write pattern, so several passes with complete bit-flips ought to eraseB > >> any possibility of a "shadow" of the original data remaining. > >fI > >   INITIALIZE/ERASE writes a data security erase pattern on the blockspF > >   of the disk.  I've dumped the blocks on some disks to make sure. > N > Sorry, brain fade.  (And the Vaxstation under my PC monitor was switched off' > at the time.)  You are quite correct.s > 5 > >   You're thinking of SET VOLUME /ERASE_ON_DELETE.  > @ > No, I was just wrong.  I'm quite clear on the various forms ofM > erase-on-delete.  I have been playing about trying to get some generic scsi N > disks to work and have tried all varieties of low-level formats and completeM > disk read/write exercises.  Somewhere in the dim recesses of my mind is the L > reason why I had not utilitised INIT/ERASE, but clearly it was not because! > it does not do what it implies.. >  >         John   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:55:01 +0000K4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: Formatting hard disk(s)8 Message-ID: <ud45tus9ukk1h4hvofg5favf5gvmrq52si@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:30:29 -0500, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> wrote:  F >Are you running into the problem of some bits not being set? like the >correct on read, etc?  L I think you're reading something into my post that's not all that obvious toJ the the poster !  I'm not having any problems at the moment, other than an, inability to check facts before replying :-)     	John_   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:01:31 +0900 & From: "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net>  Subject: ftp and telnet question+ Message-ID: <aqsv80$sv6$1@news1.kornet.net>   F I went ahead and install the FTP server as well as enabling the telnetI server on my PC.  However, I am still getting the following error messageu< when I ftp from my Alpha.  After I typed in $ftp 193.15.55.9G it asked for the name and password.  I typed it in and get this message  530 user xxx can not login %tcpip-E-FTP - login Login request rejected.H  @ However, I was able to telnet from my Alpha to my PC.  It got in successfully and give me a C:\S my question isH How do I now copy files from my pc to the alpha or vice versa from here?- What syntax do I use here?  Can someone help?    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 07:39:27 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org$ Subject: Re: ftp and telnet question3 Message-ID: <KXJEwzG+kDOS@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  T In article <aqsv80$sv6$1@news1.kornet.net>, "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> writes:H > I went ahead and install the FTP server as well as enabling the telnetK > server on my PC.  However, I am still getting the following error messagea> > when I ftp from my Alpha.  After I typed in $ftp 193.15.55.9I > it asked for the name and password.  I typed it in and get this message  > 530 user xxx can not login > %tcpip-E-FTP - login > Login request rejected.c > B > However, I was able to telnet from my Alpha to my PC.  It got in > successfully and give me a > C:\c > my question isJ > How do I now copy files from my pc to the alpha or vice versa from here?/ > What syntax do I use here?  Can someone help?o  = Are you supplying the correct user name and password?  Is the3= password specified in the appropriate case?  Does the PC sidec? user have permission to "log in locally"?  What shows up in the " event log?  In the FTP server log?  4 What do you get if you $ telnet 193.15.55.9 /port=21* and then key in "USER your-user-name-here" and "PASS your-password-here"b   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:51:10 -0500l, From: David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu>$ Subject: Re: ftp and telnet question, Message-ID: <3DD274EE.EC8106A8@email.uc.edu>   David Lee wrote: > H > I went ahead and install the FTP server as well as enabling the telnetK > server on my PC.  However, I am still getting the following error messageo> > when I ftp from my Alpha.  After I typed in $ftp 193.15.55.9I > it asked for the name and password.  I typed it in and get this message  > 530 user xxx can not login > %tcpip-E-FTP - login > Login request rejected.e > B > However, I was able to telnet from my Alpha to my PC.  It got in > successfully and give me a > C:\t > my question isJ > How do I now copy files from my pc to the alpha or vice versa from here?/ > What syntax do I use here?  Can someone help?g    H Personally I would drop ftp and telnet and look at ssh and sftp. Ftp andH telnet are dangerously insecure. You might get some information why yourD inital connection is being droped if you packet sniff the connection   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2002 11:31:40 GMT7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton)aE Subject: Going OT - cheese and bacon (was:Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping)b! Message-ID: <Ni3TYK6WTOeC@rabbit>   I Joking aside, there *are* domestic cheeses which are quite good, and bear H little resemblance to the "cheese" being discussed here.  Goat cheese isL somewhat popular in our neck of the woods (New England), and Vermont cheddarN is quite tasty.  We may be "yahoos" out here in the "colonies", but not all of& us can be painted with the same brush.  3 I like Irish bacon better than Canadian bacon, too.   X In article <3DD27247.8030909@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >  > David M Smith wrote:; >> Assuming you aren't joking, check out American cheese atr >> hA >> 	http://www.ilovecheese.com/cheese_profile.asp?Cheese=Americant >> i >  > I was joking.V > 5 > But a visit to the website confirmed my suspicions.- > 0 > Plastic, pre-sliced (the death of real cheese) > and flavourless. > 2 > What was also interesting about the site was how > little choice there was. > 4 > No goats cheese, missing the joint kings of cheese5 > Stilton and Roquefort and full of pictures of roundt3 > glutinous logs of fat lovingly sliced into littlee > frisbees.  > 8 > Perhaps the Canadians do better cheese, they certainly > do better bacon. > 	 > Regards/ > Andrew Harrisonp >  -- e Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"  "Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:14:14 -05009( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day, Message-ID: <3DD1FBC6.5010901@tsoft-inc.com>    lbohan@dbc..spamless..com wrote:  8 >>>"David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message) >>>news:3DD1A18C.3060703@tsoft-inc.com...s >>>...L >>>Jane Fonda went to North Vietnam during the war, as an anti-war activist. >>>... >>>g > 9 > At least some parts, but not all, of this oft-repeated  % > Hanoi Jane story are urban legend.   >  > See: > 2 > 'Hanoi Jane' Email Rumors Blend Fact and Fiction; > http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa110399.htm  >     O Interesting reading.  That's the first that I've seen a claim by Carrigan that uM the story about him is false.  I won't question whether the urbanlegends web -7 site is accurate.  False statements can occur anywhere.   I What I can say is that I was in the US Army from 1966 to 1969, and had 2 LO brothers also in the service during the Vietnam war.  Without getting into the  Q validity of the war, nor into refusing to serve, I will say that what Jane Fonda  F did was rather demoralizing and disgusting, and is how I remember her.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 02:45:59 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>   Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day( Message-ID: <aqtah70f4c@drn.newsguy.com>  K In article <cRiA9.57456$ku2.3870097@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Ken says...y >t >----- Original Message ----- 5 >From: "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>y >>6 >> "The Liberal Media" is another Right-Wing "big lie"% >> spread to you by Right Wing liars.  >> >  > . >Suggested reading: Bias, by Bernard Goldberg.M >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895261901/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/-% >103-0237555-8519032?v=glance&s=books0 >(watch line wrap) >e >Book Description from Amazon:K >Think the media are biased? CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN crying foul for years,lK >but now a veteran CBS reporter has come forward to expose how liberal bias M >pervades the mainstream media. Even if you've suspected your nightly news ise  N It is nowhere near this simple. Anyone who follows a lot of International newsL sources will quickly discover that the US media is to the right of virtuallyP everyone else. CNN International is the only US tv output I would say on a levelO with most other Western broadcasters. Note: CNN International is to the left of 
 CNN Domestic!   N Fox News(US) is far to the right of Sky News (UK) even though both are part ofP Rupert Murdoch's News Corp/News International. I have seen US citizens *shocked*P at the apparent left wing bias (to them) of both Sky News and the (London) TimesJ newspaper and then be astounded when they discover Murdoch owns them both.  G >slanted to the left, it's far worse than you think. Breaking ranks andsG >naming names, Emmy Award-winning broadcast journalist Bernard Goldberg B >reveals a corporate news culture in which the close-mindedness isM >breathtaking, journalistic integrity has been pawned to liberal opinion, and0J >"entertainment" trumps hard news every time. In his three decades at CBS,H >Goldberg repeatedly voiced his concerns to network executives about theH >often one-sided nature of the news coverage. But no one listened to hisF >complaints-or if they did listen, they did nothing about the problem.M >Finally, Goldberg had no choice but to blow the whistle on his own industry,eJ >to break the code of silence that pervades the news business. Bias is theM >result. As the author reveals, "liberal bias" doesn't mean simply being hardtK >on Republicans and easy on Democrats. Real media bias is the result of hownL >those in the media see the world-and their bias directly affects how we all >see the world.o >a >u >--u >  >Kenneth Farmera >http://www.Tru64.org' >http://www.OpenVMS.orgr >http://www.LinuxHPC.org >r >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:07:17 GMT ( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>  Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day> Message-ID: <VfrA9.57826$ku2.3930306@twister.southeast.rr.com>   Oh yea, well, well, well... :)  L Do you not see the humor in this.  It was a response to Atlant's comment. :)  1 <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in messageh2 news:00A16E0C.FA02BA04@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...E > In article <cRiA9.57456$ku2.3870097@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Ken % Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:d > >----- Original Message -----i7 > >From: "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>n8 > >> "The Liberal Media" is another Right-Wing "big lie"' > >> spread to you by Right Wing liars.  > >d0 > >Suggested reading: Bias, by Bernard Goldberg. >wI > Suggested debunking: http://www.dailyhowler.com/h011002_2.shtml and thel next  J One extreme to the other.  He said she said he said she said, so now whereK does everything stand.  Just as Atlant's comment is crap, so is the rest ofA this stuff. :)  K I'll make sure I put smileys after all my comments so some of you won't getf your panties in a wad.  :)   --   Kenneth Farmer :)v http://www.Tru64.org :)o http://www.OpenVMS.org :)r http://www.LinuxHPC.org :)        1 <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in message 2 news:00A16E0C.FA02BA04@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...E > In article <cRiA9.57456$ku2.3870097@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenu% Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:d > >----- Original Message -----f7 > >From: "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>  > >>8 > >> "The Liberal Media" is another Right-Wing "big lie"' > >> spread to you by Right Wing liars.  > >> > >e > > 0 > >Suggested reading: Bias, by Bernard Goldberg. >-L >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895261901/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1 /d' > >103-0237555-8519032?v=glance&s=booksi > >(watch line wrap) >  >oI > Suggested debunking: http://www.dailyhowler.com/h011002_2.shtml and theo next) > four articles in the 2001-2002 archive.o >sJ > Then head over to the 2002 archive and read everything with "Coulter" in theiK > title; Bob Somersby actually checks her footnotes and discovers how bogus  they > are. >dG > Executive summary: __Bias__ and __Slander__ are full of what can mostn. > charitably be described as "obvious errors." >?F > -- Alan (who really, really doesn't want to have this argument here)   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 04:11:33 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>   Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day) Message-ID: <aqtfhl011h3@drn.newsguy.com>y  : In article <3DD1FBC6.5010901@tsoft-inc.com>, David says... >e >1J >What I can say is that I was in the US Army from 1966 to 1969, and had 2 P >brothers also in the service during the Vietnam war.  Without getting into the Q >validity of the war, nor into refusing to serve, I will say that what Jane FondaBG >did was rather demoralizing and disgusting, and is how I remember her.d  M Perhaps but to many (US citizens included) the US actions, while starting offlN good intentioned, became demoralizing and disgusting as time went on. I am notH saying here that political incompetence didn't force US military into anO impossible situation where it was "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I ampP just saying that the end esult itself demoralized and disgusted many. You didn't need Jane Fonda for that.l   >w   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:28:11 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)b  Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day3 Message-ID: <OIlxQFicqGCS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3DD1FBC6.5010901@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:e > K > What I can say is that I was in the US Army from 1966 to 1969, and had 2 sQ > brothers also in the service during the Vietnam war.  Without getting into the rS > validity of the war, nor into refusing to serve, I will say that what Jane Fonda  H > did was rather demoralizing and disgusting, and is how I remember her.  E    A lot of us who weren't for the war were against what she did.  We8D    understand how her very late apology didn't wipe out the pain she
    caused.  E    And I'm glad we have the right to express our low opinions of her,eC    even if that particular war is not on the top of the list of thee4    things Americans have done to protect that right.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:31:56 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day3 Message-ID: <K0k5qM5ovYD$@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  Q In article <aqtfhl011h3@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:t > O > Perhaps but to many (US citizens included) the US actions, while starting offbP > good intentioned, became demoralizing and disgusting as time went on. I am notJ > saying here that political incompetence didn't force US military into anQ > impossible situation where it was "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I amnR > just saying that the end esult itself demoralized and disgusted many. You didn't > need Jane Fonda for that.e  F    The folks in Washington let us all down we they kept us in Vietnam.E    Jane Fonda did no better by going in the opposite direction.  BothoF    were wrong.  At least we got a weak, late apology from her.  All weC    got from Washington was a memorial the politicians couldn't keepB    from tinkering with.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:30:34 -0500/2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>  Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day. Message-ID: <3DD253FA.331CA4FA@mindspring.com>   David Froble wrote:b   > Atlant Schmidt wrote:e >r > > Jim Agnew wrote: > >B > >N& > >>I'll bite, whut's fondavision????? > >> > >a4 > > Terry's one of those people who think the Entire/ > > American Media Conglomerate is solely aimed  > > at spreading Lefty lies. >3R > And Atlant appears to be a liberal that tries to make liberal ideas appear to be
 > mainstream.I  * Oh no! Not someone calling me a "liberal"! Whatever shall I do?  $ Yes, YOU BET YOUR ASS I'M A LIBERAL.  - I'm cut from the same cloth as the people whoB brought you:      o The 40 hour work-week   o Women's right to votex   o Blacks' right to vote-"   o Contraception available to all   o Freedom of speech9   o Freedom of religione9   o The right of the accused to have legal representationa:   o The right of the accused to know the charges proferred      against them.,   o A free press (now, unfortunately, dying)   o Social Securityp   o Medicare and MedicaidS   o An elected Senatea   o The GI Billi   o Funding of DARPA Net  . I'm sorry *YOU* apparently don't support those/ "liberal" ideas, but you can bet your ass I'm as& liberal, and a PROGRESSIVE, and damned PROUD OF IT!  , And in a few years, I'll check back with you0 and see if you still feel like wielding the word "Liberal" like an epithet.   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 07:14:30 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)   Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day3 Message-ID: <PIVFAIrzKqVN@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  Q In article <aqtfhl011h3@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:-< > In article <3DD1FBC6.5010901@tsoft-inc.com>, David says... >> >>K >>What I can say is that I was in the US Army from 1966 to 1969, and had 2 gQ >>brothers also in the service during the Vietnam war.  Without getting into the  R >>validity of the war, nor into refusing to serve, I will say that what Jane FondaH >>did was rather demoralizing and disgusting, and is how I remember her. > O > Perhaps but to many (US citizens included) the US actions, while starting offoP > good intentioned, became demoralizing and disgusting as time went on. I am notJ > saying here that political incompetence didn't force US military into anQ > impossible situation where it was "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I am0R > just saying that the end esult itself demoralized and disgusted many. You didn't > need Jane Fonda for that.8 >   A 	It had to suck all the way around.  A war that was handcuffed byn? 	Congress (if Christmas '68 bombing wasn't cut short, the NorthpE 	would have folded as told later) , etc.  Men sent to die in a junglet$ 	to counteract communism  spreading.  B 	35 years later it would be a different war with stand off weaponsF 	that mostly hit their target every time and heat detection that wouldB 	see trucks and bodies coming down the Ho Chi Minh trail.  But you 	can't get in the time machine.n   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:12:35 GMTo1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)n  Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day< Message-ID: <TRuA9.348134$121.9640926@twister.austin.rr.com>  3 Atlant Schmidt (atlantnospam@mindspring.com) wrote:e : / : I'm cut from the same cloth as the people whoa : brought you: :  :   o The 40 hour work-weekc :   o Women's right to votei :   o Blacks' right to voteo$ :   o Contraception available to all :   o Freedom of speechr :   o Freedom of religion ; :   o The right of the accused to have legal representatione< :   o The right of the accused to know the charges proferred :      against them.. :   o A free press (now, unfortunately, dying) :   o Social Securityc :   o Medicare and MedicaidP :   o An elected Senateg :   o The GI Bill1 :   o Funding of DARPA Net :    Also:S  7    o Right to death with dignity for the terminally illa  : More on Attorney General Ashcroft's jihad against Oregon's# Oregon's Death with Dignity Act at:n      http://www.hemlock.org/    The Hemlock Society, USAh  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:25:42 -0500t2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>  Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day. Message-ID: <3DD27D06.EBFE28AA@mindspring.com>   David Froble wrote:d  , > However, if you liberals say the lie often0 > enough, some people might start believing you.  0 You're "projecting" (in the psychological sense) again. I'm not lying.s  / The ideas I cited were all deemed revolutionaryA2 or radical or were espoused by unabashed liberals.  2 I'd provide citations but it will do you more good/ to find them for yourself. (BTW, I know who theu, prime-movers behind these various ideas were and it wasn't "Conservatives".)h  ) Here's my list again so you don't forget:n     o The 40 hour work-weekr   o Women's right to votem   o Blacks' right to votep"   o Contraception available to all   o Freedom of speech    o Freedom of religion 9   o The right of the accused to have legal representationt:   o The right of the accused to know the charges proferred      against them.,   o A free press (now, unfortunately, dying)   o Social Securityl   o Medicare and Medicaidc   o An elected Senate    o The GI BillR   o Funding of DARPA Net     Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:27:47 -0500t2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>  Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day. Message-ID: <3DD27D83.36A10A1C@mindspring.com>   Jerry Leslie wrote:r   > Also:) > 9 >    o Right to death with dignity for the terminally illn >t< > More on Attorney General Ashcroft's jihad against Oregon's% > Oregon's Death with Dignity Act at:h >u >    http://www.hemlock.org/ >    The Hemlock Society, USA-  , Thank you for that addition to my list. It's* funny how quickly the Republican mantra of/ "States Rights!" gets tossed out when the statee. in question is doing something the Republicans1 don't like, such as defending death with dignity,t0 supporting medical marijuana, or counting votes.   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 10:59:39 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h  Subject: Re: Happy Veteran's Day3 Message-ID: <YZyTyZW+3k2o@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  W In article <3DD26A50.5050108@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:    > Typical of a liberal.   K    Nope, typically conservative.  All of the listed ideas were exceedingly oG    liberal when they were first brought up.  Now that they've been fact_L    for centuries or decades they've become mainstream and the conservatives G    believe in them, too.  They forget how the conservatives at the time ;    protested that the new idea was just plain going to far.$  G    Thats how we get one of the most conservative presidents ever alwaysRI    quoting the most liberal as his inspiration (Regan quoting Jefferson).   D    And how we end up with a conservative president and Congress not C    realizing he's suspended the constitution for the convenience ofn    the federal government.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:37:45 -0800t$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>  Subject: RE: Happy Veteran's Day0 Message-ID: <01C28B00.BDA34550@sulfer.icius.com>  C Jane Fonda slip of paper refutation #2. I'm not American, I haven'trD found it necessary to form an opinion on this subject. However, when3 someone said they weren't sure they could trust theeG urbanlegends.about.com piece on the subject I thought it might be worthaG checking Snopes.com. I know David Mikkelson, and I know he and his wifesD are very careful with what they post on the site. Here's their take:  ( http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.htm  @ "It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. LarryA Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper'IC incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did H spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."  . They list their references at the bottom, too.  @ Have a browse through the site too, they debunk and bunk severalF stories, and there's a section designed to mess with your head but I'mB not going to say which one. It's funnier if you buy it before they debunk themselves...   Shaner   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 01:23:43 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>- Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site)( Message-ID: <aqt5mv016d@drn.newsguy.com>  M In article <pLZevqk6norU@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.orgo says...t >rE >   Oracle is a DBMS.  It should ahve all the parts needed to supporta >   a JDBC connector.  >tE >   RMS is not a DBMS.  As others have pointed out you need more thaniI >   RMS to support a JDBC.  So there's no such thing as "a JDBC connector D >   for RMS".  It has to be "a JDBC connector for RMS and some extra >   functions not present".A >oD >   Since another vendor already has a product in the extruciatingly> >   small market there's no bussines case for HP to write one.  J As multiple people keep pointing out to you, most vendors of extended fileL system interfaces provide a native ODBC and JDBC connector. It is incrediblyO simple to map RMS to a simple relational database model. All you really need toeP do is provde some information on the record structure (keys, field positions and names) to the driver.7  O The attunity drivers for RMS are incredibly simple compared to those for Oracle J 8i. In fact *I* could write an RMS relational interface from scratch usingK Attunity's user-written driver functionality without too much difficulty oroO time. Trouble is I would then have to pay even more for the license to write myX own interfaces!    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 02:13:45 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>> Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Sitee( Message-ID: <aqt8kp09hb@drn.newsguy.com>  8 In article <00A16DF2.8608B159@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,& winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says... >oN >(And I think the whole JDBC deal is a diversion from John's original problem,L >which was that RMS access from Java was clumsy, slow, and awkward.  If JavaG >programs have to go through a JDBC layer and a SQL interpreter to do a_L >key-based lookup of an RMS file, that'll be clumsy, slow, and awkward too.)  O Certainly for ODBC access, the attunity ODBC (and even command line SQL) accesstN to RMS is blazingly fast. After all there isn't too much overhead. It is very,N very, very simple to map basic SQL functionality to RMS. I'll bet I could evenK write simple DCL to add limited functionality SQL syntax directly from DCL.uG Again this is at "Excercise for 1st year student" level for the basics./       >/ >-- Alan >T   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 02:33:53 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site&( Message-ID: <aqt9qh0cv0@drn.newsguy.com>  8 In article <00A16DF4.32F67C33@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,& winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says... >a9 >In article <3DD1499C.FF5AF20B@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei * ><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >>Bob Koehler wrote:C >>>    IIRC someone else already posted that there is a third party&9 >>>    solution.  Andrew doesn't think that's acceptable.E >>M >>And there were 3rd party products for TCPIP for a very long time before DEC M >>got its act together and made one of them "standard". During that time, VMSn) >>lost its leadership role in networking.> >>N >>If HP/Digital were to officially sanction that 3rd party product and make it? >>part of VMS, then you'd see a LOT more use of that facility. B >FI >How do you know that?  As one example, while it really needed and wantedt; >JDBC-for-Rdb, my site has no need at all for JDBC-for-RMS.0  M Then you already have it (at least with any VMS shipped in the last 6 years).iP Use the Attunity Oracle driver to connect to the RDB database using RDBs abilityM to emulate an Oracle database. That worked reasonably well in my testing withNJ ODBC. As did RDB's native free ODBC driver. Maybe there's also JDBC nativeP connector for RDB from Oracle in the works. Where problems piled up was when youO then used the RDB transparent gateways below this. And the transparent gatewaysL aren't free either!_   >>But because it is P >>kept as an obscure 3rd party product, folks building JAVA apps on VMS wont useO >>such features and will stick to "vanilla" JAva which makes their applicationseL >>even slower since they don't make use of the stuff that gives VMS an edge. ><P >It just doesn't seem like you're getting the point of Java.  The whole point isF >to be cross-platform compatible.  Certainly the point of the VMS JAVAP >development effort is to make VMS an easy target for ports from other operatingP >systems (and this seems to have had some success).  To phrase that another way,N >the point of having Java on VMS is to give VMS access to a larger application" >portfolio of Java-based products. > J >The stuff that'll give VMS an edge is the stuff that isn't cross-platformJ >compatible, and rewriting products ported from other platfroms to use it K >will slow downt the certification process and make it less likely that thea >vendors will bother.o >iP >People who are writing applications to take advantage of VMS's unique features,P >especially for speed, shouldn't be using JAVA.   (They should be using FORTRAN,A >like God intended.  Or C or PL/I or Basic or Cobol or some other " >compiled-and-optimized language.) >t >e >>M >>If HP/Digital wants to promote the use of JAVA as a "native" language, theynO >>should provide the hooks. If they just want to claim that JAVA "also" runs oneL >>VMS, then they don't need to care about integrating java in VMS, they just% >>want to implement the bare minimum.  >pP >Do you think JAVA is a "native" language anywhere?  It's the UCSD Pascal of the >1990s, for heaven's sake. >I >-- Alan >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:06:03 GMTd$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site 8 Message-ID: <00A16E4A.108416DC@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  P In article <aqt8kp09hb@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:9 >In article <00A16DF2.8608B159@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,c' >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says...I >>O >>(And I think the whole JDBC deal is a diversion from John's original problem,.M >>which was that RMS access from Java was clumsy, slow, and awkward.  If Java H >>programs have to go through a JDBC layer and a SQL interpreter to do aM >>key-based lookup of an RMS file, that'll be clumsy, slow, and awkward too.)m >tP >Certainly for ODBC access, the attunity ODBC (and even command line SQL) accessO >to RMS is blazingly fast. After all there isn't too much overhead. It is very,aO >very, very simple to map basic SQL functionality to RMS. I'll bet I could even L >write simple DCL to add limited functionality SQL syntax directly from DCL.H >Again this is at "Excercise for 1st year student" level for the basics.  O I haven't had a chance to play with this (or with Conn-X, or any other RMS-ODBCaN vendor).  I don't have a lot of application data in RMS files; we started withI Rdb in 1985 and haven't looked back.  If you say it's fast enough, okay. EB There's a fast-enough-for-low-volume-applications SQL interface toL comma-delimited ASCII files implemented as the DBD::CSV Perl DBI plug-in (onJ Unix, anyway; haven't seen it running on VMS), and it probably wouldn't beJ insanely difficult to put that -- well, to put the SQL component, which isN actually taken from a separate freeware SQL interpreter project) on top of RMSL files. (And HPaqital still owns Datatrieve, which doesn't speak SQL but doesN know how to do relational things to RMS files given an adequate description ofN them (and it doesn't need CDD any more).  Maybe that code could be adapted tot
 his purpose.)   K However, I still don't think VMS Engineering should be spending any time on,L making a JDBC interface to RMS files.  C-ISAM has to do it because they makeL their living from selling C-ISAM and they can then charge extra for the JDBCM connector; Attunity and Conn-x are motivated to do it by the chance to charge:O for it.  HP is supposed to cut the throats of third-parties that support VMS by M doing a JDBC interface and bundling it free with the OS, like RMS is bundled? M That'll alienate ISVs, not put another penny in HP's pocket, and delight only M the very small -- I think, I could be wrong - percentage of users who want toC* access their RMS files from Java via JDBC.   -- AlanE   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:19:53 GMTh$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site"8 Message-ID: <00A16E4B.FF93994F@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  P In article <aqt9qh0cv0@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:9 >In article <00A16DF4.32F67C33@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,b' >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says...P >>: >>In article <3DD1499C.FF5AF20B@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei+ >><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  >>>Bob Koehler wrote: D >>>>    IIRC someone else already posted that there is a third party: >>>>    solution.  Andrew doesn't think that's acceptable. >>>rN >>>And there were 3rd party products for TCPIP for a very long time before DECN >>>got its act together and made one of them "standard". During that time, VMS* >>>lost its leadership role in networking. >>>EO >>>If HP/Digital were to officially sanction that 3rd party product and make it @ >>>part of VMS, then you'd see a LOT more use of that facility.  >>J >>How do you know that?  As one example, while it really needed and wanted< >>JDBC-for-Rdb, my site has no need at all for JDBC-for-RMS. >gN >Then you already have it (at least with any VMS shipped in the last 6 years).Q >Use the Attunity Oracle driver to connect to the RDB database using RDBs ability N >to emulate an Oracle database. That worked reasonably well in my testing with >ODBC. n  M But the Attunity Oracle driver won't even install - or wouldn't, when I triednK it when it first came out - unless you have native Oracle installed on your L system because it links against libraries from the Oracle installation.  TheH OCI emulation in Rdb doesn't go as far as including the object libraries, Attunity needs.  How did you get it running?  E >As did RDB's native free ODBC driver. Maybe there's also JDBC nativevQ >connector for RDB from Oracle in the works. Where problems piled up was when youfP >then used the RDB transparent gateways below this. And the transparent gateways >aren't free either!  L And the Rdb transparent gateways have been desupported.  Now Oracle apps canL reach into Rdb databases to initiate 2PC (if DECDtm is running on the targetL system), but Rdb databases can't master a 2PC transaction.  (At the Rdb TechO Forum last weekend, they said that they'll be looking at external table supportaN now that the SQL standard for it is "at least set in oatmeal", but that was atD the very least two years away and it clearly shouldn't be taken as a commitment.)  M The Rdb ODBC driver would be swell if it generically talked ODBC on the wire,kM but what it is a Windows-only translator between SQL/Services on the wire andlJ ODBC on the Windows platform.  (I know that's how these things are usuallyM implemented, but the reason I bring that up is that it doesn't do a thing forAM you if your ODBC client application isn't running on Windows, and I've mostlyd2 been fussed about sharing data with Unix systems.)  G What does work, finally, is using the Oracle Thin JDBC client (which isIO completely implemented as a Java class library) against a SQL*Net (OCI) enabledeG SQL Service for an Rdb database.  Although Oracle makes the Thin Client L available for download for NT and Unix, the NT libraries work happily on VMS% and Solaris (in our testing so far). r  O That means the remote app has to be in Java rather than, say, running DBD::ODBC I in Perl, or an ODBC client library in PHP or Python, but it's a whole lot  better than nothing.   -- Alan?   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:36:54 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)p Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site 3 Message-ID: <1tearMvUVu+t@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <aqt5mv016d@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > L > As multiple people keep pointing out to you, most vendors of extended file= > system interfaces provide a native ODBC and JDBC connector.e  G    Yeah, fine.  But that doesn't mean it makes sense for HP to do it inl=    this case.  There's aleady a vendor for the minute market.d  >    IMHO RMS is not an "extended file system interface", it's aE    basic part of the VMS file system.  It's there to make life easierEG    for those who write HLL language libraries.  Since the Java languagel?    library (i.e. the JRE) works RMS is doing it's intended job.e   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:40:48 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Sitee3 Message-ID: <2s9esufzsSKD@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  X In article <3DD23977.8080209@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:  9 > If you compare that with what HPQ have done for VMS youn: > realise that one company is taking support for Java very: > seriously in their OS development plans and one isn't no% > prizes for guessing which is which.g  E    It looks to me like IBM is still in the there-is-no-other-platform3D    mindset, which is outside of the Java mindset I've run into.  You@    use IBM's tools and your Java program runs on IBM's platform.  A    HP does fine supporting the compile-once-run-anywhere mindset.h/    VMS Engineering has better things to do now.i   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:35:59 +0000 (UTC)b+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)h Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Siteo+ Message-ID: <aqtrgv$qj2$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  c In article <1tearMvUVu+t@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: Q >In article <aqt5mv016d@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:c >> _M >> As multiple people keep pointing out to you, most vendors of extended filet> >> system interfaces provide a native ODBC and JDBC connector. >eH >   Yeah, fine.  But that doesn't mean it makes sense for HP to do it in> >   this case.  There's aleady a vendor for the minute market. >sL In that case forget any porting of additional products to VMS - they are allK for the use of a "minute" market.  There is always a vendor for that market  - just not on VMS.      ? >   IMHO RMS is not an "extended file system interface", it's a.( >   basic part of the VMS file system.    L That just makes it worse. A "basic part of the VMS file system" (your words)> cannot be used from JAVA without getting a thirdparty product.    > It's there to make life easierH >   for those who write HLL language libraries.  Since the Java language@ >   library (i.e. the JRE) works RMS is doing it's intended job. >pK Following that logic there should be no documentation or examples on how to.I access indexed files from C since C only requires the CRTL. Only a minutes8 market would require access to RMS indexed files from C.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:27:38 +0000-' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyl Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Siten. Message-ID: <3DD2372A.3060809@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DD12EEA.3020902@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 3 >>This is a case in point but calls for Sun to ports/ >>StarOffice to OpenVMS also fall into the sames >>category.i >> >  > H >    I never called for that.  You getting me mixed up with someone else >    again?r >   - No it wasn't you but, it is a shared mindset.r   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:37:27 +0000,' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Sites. Message-ID: <3DD23977.8080209@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DCFC927.4020800@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >> >>Bob Koehler wrote: >>[ >>>In article <3DCF7D09.2090901@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:  >>>. >>>t2 >>>>No another CF on your part, I complained about >>>>the lack of a JDBC for RMS.m >>>> >>>"E >>>   Which is like asking for RMS support for your chocolate teapot. C >>>   JDBC requires more than what RMS offers or intended to offer.G >>>r >>9 >>The simple proof that you point isn't valid is that youe. >>can get JDBC connectors for RMS from CONNX ? >  > J >    Yes, we've been over that.  So whats so wrong about it being a third D >    party product?  Why do YOU keep harping on getting HP to do it? >   8 Perhaps the best way it illustrate why HP should provide; RMS support for OpenVMS is to compare what HP do to supportd; Java on OpenVMS (basically a delayed port of the Tru64 JVM)o  with what IBM provide for OS400.  F http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/toolbox/overview.htm#what  7 If you compare that with what HPQ have done for VMS youU8 realise that one company is taking support for Java very8 seriously in their OS development plans and one isn't no# prizes for guessing which is which.a   regardsg Andrew HarrisonK   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 04:24:33 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Sitei) Message-ID: <aqtga1014kb@drn.newsguy.com>o  8 In article <00A16E4A.108416DC@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,& winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says... > M >>However, I still don't think VMS Engineering should be spending any time onwM >making a JDBC interface to RMS files.  C-ISAM has to do it because they makeu  K I don't think they should either. I do think VMS management should stronglyaK consider bundling RMS ODBC and JDBC Attunity connectors in exactly the samerP fashion they do for Oracle! Limit the concurrent license count to 2 or somethingN to keep commercial sales alive but at least give the most basic functionality.  M >their living from selling C-ISAM and they can then charge extra for the JDBC N >connector; Attunity and Conn-x are motivated to do it by the chance to chargeP >for it.  HP is supposed to cut the throats of third-parties that support VMS byN >doing a JDBC interface and bundling it free with the OS, like RMS is bundled?N >That'll alienate ISVs, not put another penny in HP's pocket, and delight onlyN >the very small -- I think, I could be wrong - percentage of users who want to+ >access their RMS files from Java via JDBC.e       >-- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 04:31:14 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>- Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site:) Message-ID: <aqtgmi0161k@drn.newsguy.com>n  8 In article <00A16E4B.FF93994F@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,& winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says... >oQ >In article <aqt9qh0cv0@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: : >>In article <00A16DF4.32F67C33@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,( >>winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says... >>>A; >>>In article <3DD1499C.FF5AF20B@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei., >>><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >>>>Bob Koehler wrote:E >>>>>    IIRC someone else already posted that there is a third party ; >>>>>    solution.  Andrew doesn't think that's acceptable.n >>>>O >>>>And there were 3rd party products for TCPIP for a very long time before DECdO >>>>got its act together and made one of them "standard". During that time, VMSh+ >>>>lost its leadership role in networking.n >>>>P >>>>If HP/Digital were to officially sanction that 3rd party product and make itA >>>>part of VMS, then you'd see a LOT more use of that facility. s >>>fK >>>How do you know that?  As one example, while it really needed and wanted'= >>>JDBC-for-Rdb, my site has no need at all for JDBC-for-RMS.  >>O >>Then you already have it (at least with any VMS shipped in the last 6 years). R >>Use the Attunity Oracle driver to connect to the RDB database using RDBs abilityO >>to emulate an Oracle database. That worked reasonably well in my testing withr >>ODBC.  > N >But the Attunity Oracle driver won't even install - or wouldn't, when I triedL >it when it first came out - unless you have native Oracle installed on yourM >system because it links against libraries from the Oracle installation.  The I >OCI emulation in Rdb doesn't go as far as including the object librariest- >Attunity needs.  How did you get it running?2  N Well we do have Oracle native on the system as well. It may have linked in theP approriate files. But IIRC the full SQL/Net stuff for RDB includes a significantJ portion of the Oracle runtime libraries. I was also talked through variousK downloads by Oracle because we couldn't get SQL/Net to work at all with RDBi' initially. Before we even tried ODBC...t  N However we have more or less phased out all our RDB apps but (Codasyl) DBMS isO still in heavy use and we use the native Attunity drivers for DBMS and RMS. Allr@ my mucking around with Transparent gateways was 4 years ago now.  F >>As did RDB's native free ODBC driver. Maybe there's also JDBC nativeR >>connector for RDB from Oracle in the works. Where problems piled up was when youQ >>then used the RDB transparent gateways below this. And the transparent gatewayst >>aren't free either!. >eM >And the Rdb transparent gateways have been desupported.  Now Oracle apps can M >reach into Rdb databases to initiate 2PC (if DECDtm is running on the targethM >system), but Rdb databases can't master a 2PC transaction.  (At the Rdb Tech P >Forum last weekend, they said that they'll be looking at external table supportO >now that the SQL standard for it is "at least set in oatmeal", but that was at E >the very least two years away and it clearly shouldn't be taken as a 
 >commitment.)h > N >The Rdb ODBC driver would be swell if it generically talked ODBC on the wire,N >but what it is a Windows-only translator between SQL/Services on the wire andK >ODBC on the Windows platform.  (I know that's how these things are usuallyoN >implemented, but the reason I bring that up is that it doesn't do a thing forN >you if your ODBC client application isn't running on Windows, and I've mostly3 >been fussed about sharing data with Unix systems.)a >rH >What does work, finally, is using the Oracle Thin JDBC client (which isP >completely implemented as a Java class library) against a SQL*Net (OCI) enabledH >SQL Service for an Rdb database.  Although Oracle makes the Thin ClientM >available for download for NT and Unix, the NT libraries work happily on VMSt& >and Solaris (in our testing so far).  > P >That means the remote app has to be in Java rather than, say, running DBD::ODBCJ >in Perl, or an ODBC client library in PHP or Python, but it's a whole lot >better than nothing.p >g >-- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 11:05:50 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Sitet3 Message-ID: <0Eds4$E9CaX8@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  X In article <3DD267D7.8060803@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > = > "I would just about need a lobotomy to use java on VMS if IH0 > don't use a database for the underlying data." > 5 > Can we assume that since you happy that a 3rd partyu5 > can provide JDBC support for RMS and since you have 7 > had you missconceptions about the difficulty of using,2 > JDBC with RMS that you would the first person to > refute this posting.  D    Of course I'll refute the posting.  The orginal posters need for F    a lobotomy is much more closely related to choosing the wrong tool C    for the job, or maybe he's just spent to much time working with d    data base applications.  F    But I have had no misconceptions about using JDBC with RMS.  I knewH    what I didn't know and I posted the question on whether RMS alone was;    sufficient.  Someone who did know posted the answer: no.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:37:18 -0000f From: Martin.Walker@csf.co.ukh; Subject: RE: Identifying a MOP load client with DECnet/Plus-A Message-ID: <C3521D5A224C344284C3666E831BF680CC4E7A@london_exch2>/  = You can pick up on the manufacturer of the devices are using :5 http://www.cavebear.com/CaveBear/Ethernet/vendor.htmln  K (Info from a past post here - search for "DECnet Phase V Error(?) message")g   -----Original Message-----< From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch [mailto:p_sture@elias.decus.ch] Sent: 11 November 2002 18:50 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComC7 Subject: Identifying a MOP load client with DECnet/Plus.    H This weekend our network people did some "network testing", during whichB we switched our workstations and printers off (we left our cluster servers running).l  J By this morning, the server operator logs had grown to over 200,000 blocksB each, due to MOP load failures (unrecognized client), ticking awayJ since early Saturday evening. I can only assume that something was changed as a result of the tests.s  D So, does anyone know of a way using DECnet/Plus to get any more info' on the source of the MOP load requests?e  C The servers are running Alpha V7.3-1 and the version of DECnet/Plusp which comes with that.   -- )
 Paul Sture Switzerland   A This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be  F legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the@ sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your  system. ? All electronic communications with the Company may be monitoredcA in accordance with the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act,r, Lawful Business Practice Regulations, 2000. = If you do not consent to such monitoring, you should contact o the sender of the e-mail.bB The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this C email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact oC Head Office on (+44)(0)870 749 9000 between 9:00 am and 5:30 pm GMT5   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:13:38 -0600s1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r2 Subject: Re: Installing VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 3400' Message-ID: <3DD1D172.DB8AC443@fsi.net>    David W Davies wrote:g > 8 > Hi all, I'm new to this newsgroup and have a question. > G > I'm trying to install VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 3400 using TK50 tapes.  ImE > boot from tape 2 (stand alone backup), change to the first tape andi@ > then attempt to transfer VMS073.B to the system disk using the > following syntax:  > 2 > backup/image/verify mua0:vms073.b/save_set dia0: > H > It runs for a couple seconds and then comes back with an error messageC > saying "error opening dia0:[sysexe] and fails.  I have also triediC > using  from the b/1, set  uafalternate 0 then cont but also fail. F > Anyone out there with an idea would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.  B Well, the rest of the error message would help - there should be aG second or maybe even a third line of text that will help explain thingsm a bit.   -- n David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:33:44 +0100c" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>2 Subject: Re: Installing VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 34005 Message-ID: <aqu5un$d8smu$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>O  = "David W Davies" <dwd_davies2@sasktel.net> schreef in berichtg2 news:u7j3tu41ajeble2ckuap09e1l5i3k9o4n8@4ax.com...8 > Hi all, I'm new to this newsgroup and have a question. > G > I'm trying to install VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 3400 using TK50 tapes.  I E > boot from tape 2 (stand alone backup), change to the first tape and @ > then attempt to transfer VMS073.B to the system disk using the > following syntax:r >o2 > backup/image/verify mua0:vms073.b/save_set dia0: >lH > It runs for a couple seconds and then comes back with an error messageC > saying "error opening dia0:[sysexe] and fails.  I have also triedyC > using  from the b/1, set  uafalternate 0 then cont but also fail. F > Anyone out there with an idea would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.  J Is there a device dia0:? If the RF drive happens to have a software id setH to a different value than the bus id (i.e. the jumper up front) then VMS can't access the drive either.I Does the 3400 support the >>> SHOW DEVICES command, and if so what is then output?i   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:03:39 GMT-5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>5/ Subject: Re: It's official. Curly waves goodbyen3 Message-ID: <%twA9.27$Gm5.1142948@news.cpqcorp.net>g  @ JF Mezei wrote in message <3DD14F4C.C38D8AC2@vl.videotron.ca>... >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:sI >> Come on.  How could anyone not expect this.  Once you are the CEO of a'G >> company, being the #2 person is usually not what you want to be longh term.  >iI >But Curly wasn't *really* the CEO of Compaq. He was a temporary stand-ind afterlC >Pfeiffer was ousted and was allowed to stay because nobody who wasm	 qualifiedlG >wanted the job. So Curly got lucky and was promoted above his "peter'snG >principle". Now, had he proven himself at Compaq, he would have gainedt respect 4 >and recognition. But he ran Compaq into the ground. >l  K In what I wrote, did I someplace encourage you to rant about what you think J about the guy?  My statement said nothing about him being smart, talented,< evil or stupid, or what his performance was in the position.  I The simple fact is that he was the CEO of a major company, and people who C become CEOs of major companies tend to want to *stay* CEOs of major 
 companies.  L >His problem now is that he is still underqualified to hold the title of CEOC >for a large corporation. And his record at Compaq isn't inspiring.t >p  I You know what?  Your opinion, and mine, have absolutely no weight.  He is6J apparently well respected and sought out by the people who's opinions *do* matter.   > Besides, what isyour beef?  You wanted rid of him - he's gone.  I >> for incentives.  So, like him or hate him, can you be suprised if when K >> presented with the prospect of being the CEO of a highly visible company  to, >> "turn around" - that he wouldn't take it? > K >Correct. He can't be faulted for taking oopportunities which are presentedn toL >him. And he has personally done well considering he now commands a paycheck inI >the millions and separation packages in the tens of millions. He doesn't- haveL >to worry about working to pay for food anymore. But he got there because heK >was lucky, not because he was qualified. He was at the right place, at theY9 >right moment, with the right "friends" inside of Compaq.A >5  K So what is your point?  Everyone gets to where they are on a combination of K things - including luck.  You can debate his "qualifications" all you want,eL in fact there are truly intellegent papers written on just this subject (theL qualifications and abilities of CEOs).  The simple fact is that the BoD of aG company - and the weight of wall-street analyst opinion is what counts.   I >What I can't understand is why Worldcom would want Curly. Is that also a  case >of nobody wanting the job ? >s  C Hardly.  I can't imagine them havinga problem filling the position.s  J >> Carly simply returns to her previous position.  That also doesn't sound like >> a huge suprise. > L >Of course not. You always expect the "also-ran" to stay just long enough toF >complete the paperwork and then leave, leaving the CEO or the winning company1 >in charge.t >r   Duh.  I >The issues isn't so much Curly leaving, but rather that he found anotherC job.< >as CEO, especially of a prominent company such as Worldcom.  @ Duh.  An offer, and timing that he couldn't refuse, as they say.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:25:01 GMTe8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)< Subject: Re: Moving IMAGLIB, HELPLIB and STARLTE to Base VMS2 Message-ID: <1htA9.13$_45.441485@news.cpqcorp.net>  A In article <3dd17649$0$3950$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>, t) ruben@CCNMR.MIT.EDU (David Ruben) writes:I  K >Is the merging of the currently existing files with the new files going tof
 >continue?   Absolutely YES!e  C STARLET, IMAGELIB and HELPLIB _will_ continue to be merged, as will D DCLTALBES.EXE, which *is* (no surprise!) already part of "Base VMS".   -- aI       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USAaH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 10:31:30 +0100' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) % Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING + Message-ID: <mfP9jI+ZR$3G@vms.mppmu.mpg.de><  d In article <4qycnXNqLrSpxUygXTWc2Q@netnitco.net>, Earl Lakia <Lakia_n_o__s_p_a_m_@ipact.com> writes:/ > I like cswing and would like to use it again.h, > To those who have fixed it, could you post" > an executable version for Alpha?< > Anyone want to mail me their executable?  (zipped so I can > get it to VMS from VMS).   Poor guy without a C compiler !i  H I have an executable with the small correction applied for the filename L string reset problem, otherwise unchanged version 3.7.5 from H.Flowers 1994.  ( See http://wwwvms/pub/vmssig/flowers/  :  / [4]CSWING.EXE, 359 Kb, Wed Nov 13 10:15:49 2002y. [5]CSWING.NOTE, 7 Kb, Mon Nov  4 10:11:30 20020 [6]CSWING.README, 3 Kb, Tue Nov 23 13:34:30 19931 [7]CSWING_ANN.TXT, 5 Kb, Fri Apr  2 08:47:30 1993m; [8]CSWING_V375_SRCDOC.ZIP, 385 Kb, Tue Nov 22 13:33:30 1994n  2 CSWING.exe built on AXP VMS 7.3, Compaq C V6.4-008   --: Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Max-Planck-Institut Physik,Muenchen, : http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber                            ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 01:13:19 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>f# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping ) Message-ID: <aqt53f0311t@drn.newsguy.com>e  < In article <3DD1436B.29BA97C8@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan says... >e> >It wasn't in the outback, but Australia was where I first had< >a burger with a fried egg on it.   A very few places in the= >Los Angeles area serve it, but my friends think I'm crazy toi2 >eat it.   They call it a "heart attack on a bun".  H Virtualy all UK McDonalds will serve a fried egg on a bun as part of theK breakfast menu. I could have sworn I saw similar offerings on the menu at an McDonalds in Dallas.  < >A chain in Sweden called Route 66 also serves it, under the >name "Dixie Truckers Special".o >a
 >Alan Frisbie    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:53:20 GMTd$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingd8 Message-ID: <00A16E48.49902E81@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Q In article <aqt53f0311t@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: = >In article <3DD1436B.29BA97C8@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan says...f >>? >>It wasn't in the outback, but Australia was where I first hadi= >>a burger with a fried egg on it.   A very few places in thei> >>Los Angeles area serve it, but my friends think I'm crazy to3 >>eat it.   They call it a "heart attack on a bun".- > I >Virtualy all UK McDonalds will serve a fried egg on a bun as part of theuL >breakfast menu. I could have sworn I saw similar offerings on the menu at a >McDonalds in Dallas.3  K Just to be third Alan to post in this discussion, I'd say what Alan FrisbierJ found unusual was the hamburger patty with the fried egg on it.  For most . Americans, fried eggs are breakfast food only.  M McDonald's has the "Egg McMuffin" and "Sausage McMuffin", the latter of which.N is significantly more lethal per ounce, as far as fat and cholesterol go, thanO any burger other than the Arch Deluxe.  The McMuffins come on what we call, butn you don't, "English Muffins."a  L (Jack in the Box has the "Breakfast Jack", which is in fact a fried egg withJ American cheese and a transparently-thin slice of ham on a hamburger bun.)  = >>A chain in Sweden called Route 66 also serves it, under theo  >>name "Dixie Truckers Special".  M Which is curious, since Dixie truckers would likelier be getting what we callC7 biscuits and gravy, or possibly grits and bacon or ham.    -- Alan    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:20:39 GMTR$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingr8 Message-ID: <00A16E54.7CA26FD5@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  z In article <3DD23637.5@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >n >u& >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:T >> In article <aqt53f0311t@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >> >? >>>In article <3DD1436B.29BA97C8@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan says...  >>>oO >> (Jack in the Box has the "Breakfast Jack", which is in fact a fried egg withaM >> American cheese and a transparently-thin slice of ham on a hamburger bun.)e >>   > 4 >What form of food stuff is American cheese. Does it. >fall into the same category as say a Twinkie.  L American cheese is a milk-fat delivery system that adds very moderate levels of flavor to a cheeseburger.  E Twinkies are nigh-indestructible meat-fat-and-sugar delivery systems ) that are consumed standalone.  t  G Twinkies are much more interesting in a microwave than American cheese.n   Does that help?a   -- Alanu   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:23:34 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippinge3 Message-ID: <6rnfKUV+i1lm@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  _ In article <00A16E54.7CA26FD5@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:a > G > Twinkies are nigh-indestructible meat-fat-and-sugar delivery systems s! > that are consumed standalone.  O  L    We once found a torn Twinkie package which had been left out overnight.  D    We hung it on the bulletin board to see how long it would take to	    decay.u  G    Eventually the project shut down and moved to another building so weeG    left the Twinkie behind.  After close to two years there was no signe    of decay.  A    There's got to be something in there other than sugar and fat.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:15:15 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping-I Message-ID: <DfsA9.55254$YSz1.41891@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>.3 wrote in message news:3DD23637.5@nospamn.sun.com...8 >9 >d' > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:i8 > > In article <aqt53f0311t@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > >C@ > >>In article <3DD1436B.29BA97C8@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan says... > >>K > > (Jack in the Box has the "Breakfast Jack", which is in fact a fried egga withH > > American cheese and a transparently-thin slice of ham on a hamburger bun.)a > >i >r5 > What form of food stuff is American cheese. Does it'/ > fall into the same category as say a Twinkie.a    E 'American  cheese' is a square of brightly colored processed 'cheese' G approximately 15cm x 15cm x 3mm. It is rather rubbery in its mechanical K properties, lacking in texture, and has very little in the way of appealingcI taste. It is alleged that a cow had some involvement at some point in thet production process.t  F Although it is used as a food substance (in hamburgers, grilled cheeseL sandwiches, bacon-lettuce-tomato (BLT) sandwiches), it is probably best usedH as a weather-stripping compound to seal air leaks around window and door frames.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:12:08 -0500'# From: "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com>a# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippinge/ Message-ID: <aqtj38$ca2$1@license1.unx.sas.com>I  1 <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in messagen2 news:00A16E54.7CA26FD5@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...L > In article <3DD23637.5@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy/ <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  > >f [blip] > >(6 > >What form of food stuff is American cheese. Does it0 > >fall into the same category as say a Twinkie. > G > American cheese is a milk-fat delivery system that adds very moderate  levels > of flavor to a cheeseburger. >tF > Twinkies are nigh-indestructible meat-fat-and-sugar delivery systems > that are consumed standalone.a >BI > Twinkies are much more interesting in a microwave than American cheese.i >f > Does that help?a  D Let's also not forget that the Twinkie also lends itself to creative culinary modifications:   G     http://www.sptimes.com/2002/06/26/Taste/The_Twinkie_transform.shtmlr  A Whereas American cheese food products pretty much revert to theirt< constituent fats when you do anything interesting to them...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:03:50 -0500-& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com># Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger FlippingR8 Message-ID: <idq4tu8pe1mjqsba2ri6q05s249p9ka1nq@4ax.com>  8 Assuming you aren't joking, check out American cheese at  > 	http://www.ilovecheese.com/cheese_profile.asp?Cheese=American    E On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:23:35 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyq. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  4 >What form of food stuff is American cheese. Does it. >fall into the same category as say a Twinkie.  I -------------------------------------------------------------------------zI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com>I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:39:51 +0000t' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy.# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippinge. Message-ID: <3DD27247.8030909@nospamn.sun.com>   David M Smith wrote:: > Assuming you aren't joking, check out American cheese at > @ > 	http://www.ilovecheese.com/cheese_profile.asp?Cheese=American >   
 I was joking.m  3 But a visit to the website confirmed my suspicions.   . Plastic, pre-sliced (the death of real cheese) and flavourless.  0 What was also interesting about the site was how little choice there was.  2 No goats cheese, missing the joint kings of cheese3 Stilton and Roquefort and full of pictures of roundr1 glutinous logs of fat lovingly sliced into little 	 frisbees.u  6 Perhaps the Canadians do better cheese, they certainly do better bacon.   Regardsm Andrew Harrisonu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:32:42 -0500r2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com># Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingd, Message-ID: <3DD27EAA.69D493@mindspring.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  4 > No goats cheese, missing the joint kings of cheese5 > Stilton and Roquefort and full of pictures of roundl3 > glutinous logs of fat lovingly sliced into littlea > frisbees.   & Why is the "Wallace and Gromett" theme, suddenly running through my head (along with the word "Wensleydale")?   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:56:16 -0500r! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>R# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippinga' Message-ID: <3DD28430.19E4ACFC@vcu.edu>e   *boggle*.......................n   Bob Koehler wrote: > a > In article <00A16E54.7CA26FD5@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:t > >aH > > Twinkies are nigh-indestructible meat-fat-and-sugar delivery systems! > > that are consumed standalone.r > L >    We once found a torn Twinkie package which had been left out overnight.F >    We hung it on the bulletin board to see how long it would take to >    decay.s > I >    Eventually the project shut down and moved to another building so weeI >    left the Twinkie behind.  After close to two years there was no signW >    of decay. > C >    There's got to be something in there other than sugar and fat.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:23:35 +0000i' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingc( Message-ID: <3DD23637.5@nospamn.sun.com>  % winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:oS > In article <aqt53f0311t@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  > > >>In article <3DD1436B.29BA97C8@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan says... >>N > (Jack in the Box has the "Breakfast Jack", which is in fact a fried egg withL > American cheese and a transparently-thin slice of ham on a hamburger bun.) >   3 What form of food stuff is American cheese. Does it@- fall into the same category as say a Twinkie.H   RegardsS Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 04:34:06 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingp) Message-ID: <aqtgru016il@drn.newsguy.com>f  7 In article <3DD23637.5@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew says...n >D >c >e& >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:K >>In article <aqt53f0311t@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e	 >>writes:e >> t? >>>In article <3DD1436B.29BA97C8@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan says...c >>>tO >> (Jack in the Box has the "Breakfast Jack", which is in fact a fried egg withfM >> American cheese and a transparently-thin slice of ham on a hamburger bun.)y >> . >e4 >What form of food stuff is American cheese. Does it. >fall into the same category as say a Twinkie.  M I suspect we may be talking about "Kraft" Cheese slices and similar. In otheroK words I think "US cheese" is just referring to what we would call processede cheese.7  = I have certainly seen non processed cheese in the US as well.e   >Regards >Andrew Harrison >w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:46:18 -0500t' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>e# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingr< Message-ID: <howard-A6E945.07461813112002@enews.newsguy.com>  8 In article <00A16E54.7CA26FD5@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,&  winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:  G > Twinkies are nigh-indestructible meat-fat-and-sugar delivery systems a! > that are consumed standalone.  g  = Some people have started battering and deep-frying them, too.b   -- h4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 10:50:51 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)S# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippinga3 Message-ID: <7S+D0gRf3$3V@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  U In article <aqtj38$ca2$1@license1.unx.sas.com>, "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com> writes:r  F > Let's also not forget that the Twinkie also lends itself to creative > culinary modifications:u > I >     http://www.sptimes.com/2002/06/26/Taste/The_Twinkie_transform.shtml   C    "deep-fried candy bars"?  It's been too long?  I haven't been to 8    a state fair in six months and they're serving these?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:52:41 -0500f5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> # Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger FlippingsO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A394@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>e   deep fried oreo's as welli   -----Original Message-----C From: koehler@encompasserve.org [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org] V+ Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 11:51 AMf To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping     : In article <aqtj38$ca2$1@license1.unx.sas.com>, "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com> writes:  G > Let's also not forget that the Twinkie also lends itself to creative w > culinary modifications:  >  >     E > http://www.sptimes.com/2002/06/26/Taste/The_Twinkie_transform.shtmly  C    "deep-fried candy bars"?  It's been too long?  I haven't been toi8    a state fair in six months and they're serving these?    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and1J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/orrJ instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:33:16 GMTS" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping:0 Message-ID: <00A16EA1.B381752A@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <3DD27247.8030909@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >H >i >David M Smith wrote:r; >> Assuming you aren't joking, check out American cheese atn >> oA >> 	http://www.ilovecheese.com/cheese_profile.asp?Cheese=Americank >> i >f >I was joking. >y4 >But a visit to the website confirmed my suspicions. >t/ >Plastic, pre-sliced (the death of real cheese)h >and flavourless.  > 1 >What was also interesting about the site was howe >little choice there was.  > 3 >No goats cheese, missing the joint kings of cheeseg4 >Stilton and Roquefort and full of pictures of round  H Yummm.  Stop that.  I can wait to get back to England and chow down some< Blue Stilton and a fine bitter.  Just 4 months and counting.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:41:32 -0000P2 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> Subject: Patch installationy4 Message-ID: <aqtv84$bu8$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>  H It's that time of year again, when no way nohow can I schedule downtime.  @ Patches arrive with reboot required, so I keep them for January.J Would it be safe to install them & not reboot, or am I better keeping them
 uninstalled ?0J Installing without rebooting seems to go against the stock warning carried by patches.oF I'm never sure whether the warning is because the patch is ineffectiveL before reboot, or because the system is unstable in the window between patch- & reboot, or whether it's just belt & braces.   L I've never had a problem, either installing several patches & doing a singleG reboot after, or installing a patch & scheduling a reboot for some lessmE civilised hour, but I'm a bit chary of installing a patch requiring a / reboot, & then not doing the reboot for months.a  * For example, the sys 5 patch just arrived.L I could not install it, and the system could crash, and it still wouldn't be
 installed.J If I installed it, & didn't reboot, at least it would be installed after a# crash or power failure or whatever.   H I'm just after maximising uptime - potentially I could see a patch for aF crash, and then several crashes for that reason or another, or a powerH failure. At least if the patch is installed, the problems it fixes won't+ cause more than one crash (the reboot one).o   Thanks,a Chrish   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 11:57:03 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)8 Subject: Re: Patch installationg3 Message-ID: <iLrYfPTWWChq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <aqtv84$bu8$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:. > B > Patches arrive with reboot required, so I keep them for January.L > Would it be safe to install them & not reboot, or am I better keeping them > uninstalled ?,  H    NO.  Systems can fail when patches are marked reboot required and the    reboot isn't done.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:30:58 +1100rL From: forSALTsythm@optushome.com.aSALTu (Mark(desalinate for e-mail)Forsyth)A Subject: Re: POP Client for VMSmail (not POP Mail client for VMS) 9 Message-ID: <slrnat3sd0.63.forSALTsythm@plague.bogus.com>l  [ On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:30:07 -0600, David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> gushed forth:e >Folks,>  	 [deletia]a   >i >POP_MAIL.COM: >$ MCR pop_client- >	/SERVER="popnode.tld.net"- >	/USERNAME="mbxname@tld.net"- >	/PASSWORD="password" >$ EXITe >oF >The program ("pop_client") would connect to the POP server on demand,H >retrieve the mail and insert the messages into my VMSmail mail file(s).  E THere is such a beast already. Fetchmail, I think, does what you want < the only problem is that it isn't there for OpenVMS. It's at% http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/fetchmail/   	 [deletia]t   -- s Ooroos	 Mark F...>  $ Another Optus Cable Traffic Monitor.3 http://www.members.optushome.com.au/forsythm/traff/   A Today is Boomtime, the 25th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3168n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:30:07 -0600l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i= Subject: POP Client for VMSmail (not POP Mail client for VMS)o' Message-ID: <3DD1D54F.BF31FB44@fsi.net>i   Folks,  D I went Googling for info. on this and came up with some posts from a< while back. Just looking to see if anything new has emerged.  E To clarify, I'm looking for a POP client for VMSmail, *NOT*, I repeataG __N_O_T__ a POP mail client for VMS. That means, no PINE, no PTMAIL, nor PMDF or anything similar.e  ! My vision is something like this:    $ MAIL   MAIL> SPAWN @POP_MAIL  You have 3 new messages.   MAIL> ^Z $   , ...where POP_MAIL.COM looks sorta like this:  
 POP_MAIL.COM:t $ MCR pop_client-d 	/SERVER="popnode.tld.net"-r 	/USERNAME="mbxname@tld.net"-y 	/PASSWORD="password"a $ EXIT  E The program ("pop_client") would connect to the POP server on demand, G retrieve the mail and insert the messages into my VMSmail mail file(s).rA Maybe best to think of it as a voluntarily invoked POP-version ofpH MAIL$SERVER rather than the "involuntary" MAIL$SERVER we have now. NeverH mind that thinsg would be MIME encoded, etc., that will be handled laterH on. For now, I'm just looking to solve the retrieval problem. What to do8 with it once I retrieve it is another question entirely.  H I've never seen anything like that before. Has anyone ever heard of such0 a critter, or know if it would be hard to write?   -- t David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 03:36:21 -0800  From: seremil@email.it (Seremil). Subject: Read MO VMS Cartridge on a NON-Vms OS= Message-ID: <1c729d32.0211130336.6ada7ab9@posting.google.com>r   Hi allB I have a lot of MO cartridges writed with a SONY-SMO-S501-10 drive, connected to a Microvax OpenVMS 6.2 station.F There is a way to read the data on the cartridges connecting the driveF to another unix system? In other words, can i connect the MO Sony unitD to another unix or dos machine and use some tool to read the data on2 the cartridge formatted/writed on the VMS station?   Thanks for help( Byee   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 03:06:06 -0800  From: seremil@email.it (Seremil) Subject: Sony-SMO-S501-11i< Message-ID: <1c729d32.0211130306.6cc3c24@posting.google.com>  = I bought an old MO drive Sony-SMO-S501-11 in substition of anhF identical damaged one. The drive is connected on a MicroVAX 3100-30/40 with OpenVMS 6.2.a With a show dev i have:n   $ show dev dka200: /full  ; Disk MVAX$DKA200:, device type SONY SMO-C501-00, is online,0
 file-oriented@0     device, shareable, error logging is enabled.  F     Error count                    1    Operations completed                  6F     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                         [1,4]3     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot   V S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPLaF     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 512    5 When i try to mount the cartridge i have immediately:v   $ mount /over=id dka200:" %MOUNT-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline $C  - the Busy led don't light and nothing happens.eE It's very strange that if i try to mount a write locked cartridge thel system releave the lock status:    $ show dev dka200:  F Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MnF  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count Cn. MVAX$DKA200:            Online wrtlck      182 $    Some suggestion? Thanks for help  Byee   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:11:44 GMTrF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) Subject: Re: Sony-SMO-S501-11@2 Message-ID: <A4tA9.12$FT4.201876@news.cpqcorp.net>  _ In article <1c729d32.0211130306.6cc3c24@posting.google.com>, seremil@email.it (Seremil) writes:  >k> >I bought an old MO drive Sony-SMO-S501-11 in substition of anG >identical damaged one. The drive is connected on a MicroVAX 3100-30/40  >with OpenVMS 6.2. >With a show dev i have:  A When you say "identical", did you check to see if any switches oroB jumpers or other options in the drive are actually set exactly theA same way?  Did you also check to see if any drive firmware is theP> same revision?  I've run into MO drives whose behavior changed= considerably when the firmware changed, even though the modelf number did not change.     >$ show dev dka200: /fullo >nJ >Disk MVAX$DKA200:, device type SONY SMO-C501-00, is online, file-oriented1 >    device, shareable, error logging is enabled.y >iO >    Error count                    1    Operations completed                 6sO >    Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                        [1,4]mO >    Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot   S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPLhO >    Reference count                0    Default buffer size                512u >  >t6 >When i try to mount the cartridge i have immediately: >e >$ mount /over=id dka200: # >%MOUNT-F-MEDOFL, medium is offlinen >$  B Was the 'new' drive actually working somewhere before you moved itB to the MicroVAX?  What sort of equipment was it connected to?  Was@ the cartridge one which was working with the old drive before it= was 'damaged' (and what was the damage), and was it used withs? this drive in the previous platform or was it a cartridge whichn was working on VMS?    >-. >the Busy led don't light and nothing happens.  = Sounds like the 'new' drive isn't actually working.  However,e; since it's probably SCSI you might want to check the cables9> (you did turn the power off on everything before replacing the= drive, didn't you?  This unit probably is probably old enoughd? that it uses the version of SCSI where if you try to disconnectM; or connect cables with the power on you may very well 'fry'n something).   F >It's very strange that if i try to mount a write locked cartridge the  >system releave the lock status: >  >$ show dev dka200:0 >iG >Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free eX >Trans Mn Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count Cn/ >MVAX$DKA200:            Online wrtlck      182s >$ >a >Some suggestion?  >Thanks for help  B The most common problem with MO on VMS appears to be trying to useE a cartridge which is not in the proper format.  Only cartridges which - have 512 bytes per sector will normally work.l  D Also, are you using any other software (such as the software packageA Digital / Compaq /HP  used to sell to manage MO drives) with this > drive?  That's the only way to use Write Once media with an MOE drive on VMS.  Rewriteable media should work if the drive is actuallyt* working and the media is the correct type.  A However, from the symptoms, it appears that your new drive simply-A doesn't work correctly.  It may be responding just enough so that A the system "knows" it's connected to the SCSI bus, but it doesn'tM actually work.   -- D(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have ag5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post..   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 01:19:00 -0800* From: polato@igi.pd.cnr.it (Sandro Polato)& Subject: Strange logical name question= Message-ID: <2af2b3d8.0211130119.72ca5914@posting.google.com>a   Hi all, ; can anyone tell me if could be an answer to this question ?m  @ I'd like to define a local name in a manner that is not possible% for the user to know the translation.a For example:< $ define my_concealed_home alluser_home:[william] (plus some qualifiers)aD Then, if the a user try to translate the "my_concealed_home" logical name6 with "show log my_concealed_home", he is not answered  "alluser_home:[william]"4 to avoid the direct access to alluser_home:[000000].   Why this question ? C I have to map a filesystem via nfs but in the alluser_home:[000000]- there-D are some unprotected and important files that I don't want to reveilC the existence but I want to permit the access to a specific folder.iC Obviously, I cannot protect that files (to avoid application fails)o and I cannot7 move that files in other places; also I cannot move thea alluser_home:[william] folder.  F I am prepared for a negative answer, but I hope in a good suggestion.  Thanks   Sandro   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 11:53:45 +0100' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)p* Subject: Re: Strange logical name question+ Message-ID: <Ztj4gtsMlzMR@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>c  j In article <2af2b3d8.0211130119.72ca5914@posting.google.com>, polato@igi.pd.cnr.it (Sandro Polato) writes:
 > Hi all, = > can anyone tell me if could be an answer to this question ?p > B > I'd like to define a local name in a manner that is not possible' > for the user to know the translation.t > For example:> > $ define my_concealed_home alluser_home:[william] (plus some
 > qualifiers)tF > Then, if the a user try to translate the "my_concealed_home" logical > name8 > with "show log my_concealed_home", he is not answered  > "alluser_home:[william]"6 > to avoid the direct access to alluser_home:[000000]. >  > Why this question ?wE > I have to map a filesystem via nfs but in the alluser_home:[000000]r > thereaF > are some unprotected and important files that I don't want to reveilE > the existence but I want to permit the access to a specific folder.wE > Obviously, I cannot protect that files (to avoid application fails)  > and I cannot9 > move that files in other places; also I cannot move ther  > alluser_home:[william] folder. >     & Seems You want security by obscurity ?G Even the /trans=terminal qualifier will not inhibit users to look into "- the [000000]directory of the (rooted) device.CP The only way I see is to set the directory protection of the [000000] directory N (the one containing william.dir) to no read-access for the users, which is the, default for a disks master-directory anyway:  6    $ set file/prot=w:E alluser_home:[000000]000000.dir  O (If alluser_home is defined as realdisk:[something.], then something.dir is thew directory to be protected).i  H But be aware, this just inhibits directory listings, if a user knows the9 filename, he still can access the file in [000000], e.g. e' "copy alluser_home:[000000]thisfile []"u    E And since You mention NFS: why not restrict the mounting point to ther9 [williams] directory, if nothing else should be visible ?    --: Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Max-Planck-Institut Physik,Muenchen, : http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber                            ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 07:08:32 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: symbol substitution= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0211130708.3aece395@posting.google.com>i  \ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<12NOV200220484032@gerg.tamu.edu>...4 > spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes...` > }Mark Preston <mark.preston@oracle.com> wrote in message news:<3DD123D3.2010401@oracle.com>...> > }> I came across a line of code that is working, but I don't; > }> understand why.  I thought I understood ' and & symbole8 > }> substitution, but given the & inside the ' and that; > }> ' is processed during the first phase and & the seconde6 > }> phase of command processing, I don't get why this3 > }> works.  Maybe I'm just having a senior moment?o > }> p3 > }> $  plist = f$edit("''rec'list","UPCASE") - "*"  > }> $  plist := '&plist'E > } E > }The apostrophe is forcing early ampersand substitution, and it alle > }happens in the first phase. > }  > }So you get  > } B > }  '&plist'  -->  'VALUE_OF_PLIST'  -->  VALUE_OF_VALUE_OF_PLIST > } E > }This is analagous to the apostrophe forcing early lexical functiony= > }evalution in commands like $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "The time ise > }''F$TIME()'." > } C > }WARNING: The result of &plist MUST be an uppercase string. If it H > }contains any lowercase letters, the result of &plist will be the null
 > }string. >  > Don't count on it. >  > $ bar = '&foo' > $ sh symb foo  >   FOO = "Foo"e > $ sh symb barw >   BAR = "Wombat" >   > How did I manage this? Well... >  > $ sh symb "Foo"3 >   Foo = "Wombat" > D > If you try hard enough you can define a symbol that has lower caseI > letters in the symbol name. (If you do a SHOW SYMB F%%, both defintionsqL > show up.) Not as the first letter (at least, not from DCL - I havn't tried, > other ways), but after that you can do it.  E You're right! HOWEVER, even though you can define symbols whose nameslD contain lowercase letters, they don't work "properly" in expressions of the form  '&Symbol'!.   Example:  
 DCL> SH SYM *t   $RESTART == "FALSE"    $SEVERITY == "1"   $STATUS == "%X00030001"a   AA == "Zero"   EV == "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT"   FOUR == "FIVE"   ONE == "TWO"   THREE == "FOUR"1   TWO == "THREE"   ZERO == "ONE"g   Zero == "THREE"C DCL> DCL> EV '&ZERO'N THREE0 DCL> EV '&Zero'C THREEO DCL> DEL/SYM/GLO ZERO: DCL> DCL> EV '&ZERO'E _Expression:
  Interrupt   DCL> sh sym z*   Zero == "THREE"F DCL> EV '&Zero'0 _Expression:
  Interrupt  . DCL>  C As you can see above, even though Zero is a "valid" symbol, it doesmF not work "properly" with the '&SYMBOL' trick. So we're both right! DCLF upcases the symbol name before it performs the ampersand substitution.E But DCL does not upcase anything after the ampersand substitution andmE before the apostrophe substitution in this case. So while you can get F '&Zero' to yield a non-null value, it will be the value based on ZERO,? not the value based on Zero. So it becomes very misleading. Yetc: another reason to avoid lowercase letters in symbol names.  ? Actually, you may well be right for the "translate symbols in atF comment" trick. There, I think the mixed-case symbol names might work.D 'Haven't tried it yet.  ...  ...  OK, I just tried it. And it works!+ When you evaluate a symbol in a comment vial  
 $ ! '&SYMBOL'w  E symbol names which contain lower case letters are translated. And DCL F properly distinguishes between different case letters in this case. So you're right for this case.    > Another example: > 
 > $ aa = "Aa"e
 > $ &aa = "B"0 > $ sh symb a%
 >   AA = "Aa"@ >   Aa = "B" > H > As you can see, it turns out that you can use the "&" on the left handI > side of the symbol definition too. This can lead to some rather strangenK > things. I don't recommend actually ever doing it, outside of just showingi > off like I'm doing now ;-)  E Yes, I now remember Smolik demonstrating these a while back. Good forrF fun only. As you mention in your post, a very bad idea for usable (and debuggable!) DCL code.  C > After doing the definitions for AA and Aa above, you can do this:" >  > $ b = "z"  > $ write sys$output '&aa' > ze > + > Since "Aa" is a defined symbol, it works.I > I > Note that you get a different answer with '&aa' than you do with &'aa':s >  > $ write sys$output '&aa' > zn > $ write sys$output &'aa' > Ba > I > The second case apparently invloves implicit uppercasing - it is eitherrJ > part of the single quote translation phase or between that phase and theI > ampersand translation phase - that causes the 'aa' => Aa to become "AA"tG > again, and then &AA is Aa (which the write command then translates togK > get the "B" - there is evidently no uppercasing in or after the ampersand L > translation phase). The first case, which forces the ampersand translationG > to happen early, in the single quote phase, so you get the evaluationiF > of (I think this is the right order) &aa => Aa and then 'Aa' => B (,! > leading to B => z in the write.i  D It is the right order. But make sure the result of &'aa' starts with an uppercase letter!  I > }If anyone knows of any other uses for the ampersand, please post them!a > }  > }Disclaimer: JMHO-1 > }Alan E. Feldman &-)   !!! (Bill de Cat smiley)r > H > I just did, although I don't know that I would call it a "use" so muchH > as "a rather pointless trick that could really confuse someone who hasG > to maintain your code later". Creating symbols with lowercase letterssH > in them may be aesthetically pleasing to look at, or something, but it. > is probably not a good plan in the long run.  E Definitely not. And I actually prefer uppercase in my DCL code. But I.$ use regular mixed case for comments.  C > Even more gruesome (just because I know someone will try it - nowt > you don't have to):A > ! > $ z = "Really bad symbol name!" # > $ &z = "This is not a good idea."> > $ show symbol "Re"*o8 >   Really bad symbol name! = "This is not a good idea."   Yikes!  A > Yep, you guessed it: spaces and puncutation in the symbol name.t# > You can use 8-bit characters too.   
 Double yikes!.  A > And yes, any characters work (as far as I know - I havn't triedeD > all of them). This does mean that you can embed the various escape> > sequences in your symbol name that will affect your terminalA > (making a symbol include characters in the bold rendition being > > a comparatively harmless use - its what I tried to see if itE > would work). They are not filtered. They do work. This is a really,eD > really, bad idea. Don't do it. (I am not providing an example - if? > you can't figure out how to do it yourself at this point, youaE > certainly shouldn't be doing it. Actually, even if you know how youe > still shouldn't.)  O   OK, I won't do it. t  7 > Fortunately DELETE/SYMBOL works with the &, so to get & > rid of the above symbol you can do a >  > $ delete/symbol &z > C > and it does get rid of the symbol named "Really bad symbol name!"bG > for you - the whole thing is one parameter for the command, includingr. > the spaces, after the ampersand translation. > D > Note: there are some regular characters that can be embeded in theD > symbol name that make it hard to do anything with it, particularlyE > the double quote - that one seems to render the symbol undeleteableDG > by anything other than DELETE/SYMBOL/ALL. You can define it as above,aJ > but using the very same symbol substitution in the DELETE/SYMBOL command > fails to work: > " > $ aa = "Write sys$output ""aa""" > $ &aa = "Yuck."N > $ sh symb aa  >   AA = "Write sys$output "aa"" > $ sh symb "Wr"*G# >   Write sys$output "aa" = "Yuck."  > $ delete/symbol &aa1? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellingt > $ sh symb "Wr"*a# >   Write sys$output "aa" = "Yuck."  > $ delete/symbol/alln > $ sh symb "Wr"*p? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellingt  F Make that Super Yuck! Who'd want to debug code containing symbols like these?!s  @ > Spaces in symbol names mean that it won't "interfere" with any( > command you enter on the command line. > A > While this symbol named "Write sys$output "aa"" exists, you cankB > actually enter the command and it will still work - it won't try@ > to run the nonexistant "Yuck." command (even if you capitalize4 > the name of the symbol completely and everything). > C > This would be because the CLI only checks for translations of theoB > individual word, not the phrase, i.e. it only checks "WRITE" notG > "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT", or anything even longer. The space is a delimiter-D > for the CLI. Thus they don't "interfere". Someone might think thisB > is a useful feature and try to take advantage of it. I wouldn't.   I wouldn't either.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman   &-)n   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 08:09:34 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: symbol substitution= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0211130809.514ef409@posting.google.com>r  \ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<12NOV200220484032@gerg.tamu.edu>...4 > spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes...` > }Mark Preston <mark.preston@oracle.com> wrote in message news:<3DD123D3.2010401@oracle.com>...> > }> I came across a line of code that is working, but I don't; > }> understand why.  I thought I understood ' and & symboli8 > }> substitution, but given the & inside the ' and that; > }> ' is processed during the first phase and & the secondt6 > }> phase of command processing, I don't get why this3 > }> works.  Maybe I'm just having a senior moment?/ > }> h3 > }> $  plist = f$edit("''rec'list","UPCASE") - "*"  > }> $  plist := '&plist'e > } E > }The apostrophe is forcing early ampersand substitution, and it all  > }happens in the first phase. > }  > }So you get  > } B > }  '&plist'  -->  'VALUE_OF_PLIST'  -->  VALUE_OF_VALUE_OF_PLIST > } E > }This is analagous to the apostrophe forcing early lexical function.= > }evalution in commands like $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "The time ist > }''F$TIME()'." > } C > }WARNING: The result of &plist MUST be an uppercase string. If it1H > }contains any lowercase letters, the result of &plist will be the null
 > }string. >  > Don't count on it. >  > $ bar = '&foo' > $ sh symb foot >   FOO = "Foo"s > $ sh symb bara >   BAR = "Wombat" >   > How did I manage this? Well... >  > $ sh symb "Foo"- >   Foo = "Wombat" > D > If you try hard enough you can define a symbol that has lower caseI > letters in the symbol name. (If you do a SHOW SYMB F%%, both defintions-L > show up.) Not as the first letter (at least, not from DCL - I havn't tried, > other ways), but after that you can do it. [...]9  C Oops. I can't quote my last post yet, so please let me "correct" itH here.r  C I originally claimed that the result of ampersand substitution mustmF contain no lowercase letters for things like '&SYMBOL' to work. I thenD replied to Carl's reply (this one) showing an interesting problem if@ SYMBOL is spelled Symbol. Oops. That's not the same thing as theF *result* of translating SYMBOL containing lowercase letters. So I went& back and checked it and Carl is right.    My apologies for the "bad" post.  ? What is important from all this is to remember that there is nolF upcasing performed by DCL immediately after ampersand substitution and< that upcasing is performed by DCL before any of these symbol6 substitutions, barring any quotation marks, of course.  C And I strongly agree with Carl that one should *not* create symbols F whose resultant names contain any characters that are not contained inD the supported set of characters for symbol names (except for fooling around with DCL, of course).   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmant   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 03:20:35 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: system calls, RE time3 Message-ID: <8DEJpYmyDmks@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  _ In article <3DD16249.7C5BF9FE@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:   @ > I guess I'm looking for the system equivelant of the lexicals.2 > f$cvtime,  f$parse. Haven't found anything yet.  > C > I know what I want to do. But haven't found the right pieces yet.  > $ > Any pointers would be appreciated.  M I find the Programming Concepts chapter on System Time Operations to be good:t  D 	file:///VMSDOC073/v73/5841/5841pro_contents_008.html#toc_chapter_27   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:57:55 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: system calls, RE time3 Message-ID: <NuQWptzyqTki@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  _ In article <3DD16249.7C5BF9FE@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:h > Hello all, >  > No, this isn't schoolwork. >  > Alpha VMS 7.3-1e > DECC 6.2 (I think) >  > " > 1. Get the system date and time. > 	I'm using $GETTIM for that.  F    Good move.  You get a 64 bit signed integer you can use later (typeH    __int64).  You need to know that by convention positive values stand J    for absolute times and negative values stand for delta times.   If yourF    calculating "before" and "after" by normal addition and subtractionE    you break that convention.  In this case you get an absolute time,B    which is positive.o   > J > 2. Calculate "seven days ago." so I can tag something as "new." AnythingD > posted in the last seven days, (rounded up) is considered new. I'mG > posting this a 7:00 PM on a Tuesday evening. Everything created sincee; > the beginning of the day on last Wednesday would qualify.  > < > 	I think I can use lib$sub_times for this. Need help here.  F    Format 7 days delta time into binary using $BINTIM.  That gives you@    a 64 bit integer that will be negative.  Just add that to theH    absolute time you had above, since the delta time is negative you'll F    get a smaller 64 bit integer representing the earlier absolute time    "seven days ago".  E    You may want to format and manipulate this result to remove hours,D>    minutes, and seconds if "seven days ago means "at or after #    12:00:00.001 AM seven days ago".h   > & > 3. Get create date and time of file. > 7 > 	I'm using fabs, xabs, and sys$open(&fab) to do this.u      Good.  < > 4. Get month and year from above info. (in integer values) >     Use $NUMTIM.y  5 > 5. Compare files creation time to "seven days ago."K >   H    Check for file time's 64 bit time stamp less than "seven days ago"'s.B    If not, then it's older.  Just compare the two 64 bit integers.   > 7 > 6. Get file name and type, out of the full file spec.A >     SYS$FILESCAN    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:38:38 -0500r0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.3:  VAX DHCP server/ Message-ID: <3DD2016C.754E9A71@vl.videotron.ca>    Looks like it was my fault.S  N using ethermon, I saw that the DHCP server was sending responses to the routerK instead of the macintosh. I then remembered that I had "narrowed" my subneteP and that the adresses handed out by the DHCP server were now outside that range.  $ Looks like that has been solved now.  J However, the DHCP GUI still crashes everytime I try to modify a field that contains a list of items.e   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 01:15:59 -0800  From: goality@suomi24.fi (Jussi)/ Subject: Tool for testing C/C++ code in VAX VMS1= Message-ID: <cb9da98b.0211130115.3e3d9dfa@posting.google.com>    Hello, l  F I'm using GCC in VAX VMS, and I'm looking for a way to test C/C++ codeB for memory leaks etc. Does anyone know of a tool that could handleC that kind of testing in VAX VMS using GCC (for example, a tool liket Numega BoundsChecker in VC++)?   Thanks in advance,   Jussi    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:32:38 +0100o From: "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1>c3 Subject: Re: Tool for testing C/C++ code in VAX VMS:* Message-ID: <aqt67r$o80$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  - "Jussi" <goality@suomi24.fi> wrote in message.7 news:cb9da98b.0211130115.3e3d9dfa@posting.google.com...i > Hello, >-H > I'm using GCC in VAX VMS, and I'm looking for a way to test C/C++ codeD > for memory leaks etc. Does anyone know of a tool that could handleE > that kind of testing in VAX VMS using GCC (for example, a tool like1  > Numega BoundsChecker in VC++)? >t > Thanks in advance, >  > Jussi    Hellof  $ May be this in the freeware can help  G http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/callmon/aaareadme.txts   Regards6   Grard   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 07:01:20 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 3 Subject: Re: Tool for testing C/C++ code in VAX VMSo3 Message-ID: <tRyGdB4O2Vou@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ` In article <cb9da98b.0211130115.3e3d9dfa@posting.google.com>, goality@suomi24.fi (Jussi) writes:	 > Hello, a > H > I'm using GCC in VAX VMS, and I'm looking for a way to test C/C++ codeD > for memory leaks etc. Does anyone know of a tool that could handleE > that kind of testing in VAX VMS using GCC (for example, a tool likei  > Numega BoundsChecker in VC++)? >   G    The code generated by GCC should be compatable with the VMS debuggera    which has a heap analyzer.a   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 07:23:30 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n3 Subject: Re: Tool for testing C/C++ code in VAX VMSn3 Message-ID: <4cKKIPXvpEDV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <tRyGdB4O2Vou@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:gb > In article <cb9da98b.0211130115.3e3d9dfa@posting.google.com>, goality@suomi24.fi (Jussi) writes:
 >> Hello,  >> nI >> I'm using GCC in VAX VMS, and I'm looking for a way to test C/C++ codeSE >> for memory leaks etc. Does anyone know of a tool that could handleaF >> that kind of testing in VAX VMS using GCC (for example, a tool like! >> Numega BoundsChecker in VC++)?  >> a > I >    The code generated by GCC should be compatable with the VMS debuggere  I That surprises me, since for the GNAT Ada compiler one is supposed to uset GDB.  (I have not tried GNAT.)   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 01:43:36 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>pA Subject: Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS2002n( Message-ID: <aqt6s804e5@drn.newsguy.com>  @ In article <kMicncjsc7jC_kygXTWc3g@metrocast.net>, "Bill says... >  >t/ >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageoD >news:bvbA9.70757$MGm1.32334@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >" >... >-J >> History is filled with examples of people buying into the 'Big Lie'. It >wasL >> the Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels, of course, who noted that big liesJ >> can paradoxically be believed more easily than smaller lies, because of >theC >> human inability to completely dismiss arrogance backed by power.r >iM >Precisely.  Godwin's Rule be damned:  sometimes a spade needs to be called a, >spade.b  P Actually I am fairly sure Hitler discusses the "big lie" in "Mein kampf" - yes II have read it. No doubt whatsoever that Goebbels carried out the "Big Lie"g though.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:51:32 GMTb# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>oA Subject: Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS2002mH Message-ID: <ENsA9.55914$oRV.47245@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagei, news:kMicncjsc7jC_kygXTWc3g@metrocast.net... >a > G > And you really can't begin to address the VMS issue without involvingmK > Alpha - a lot.  The mentality that killed Alpha was exactly the mentalityuL > that's killing VMS (just more slowly, for the moment), and unless HP takesJ > major steps to *prove* that this mentality has changed customers will beF > reluctant to embrace VMS even if its marketing improves - especially during= > the time that it can be purchased only on a dying platform.     H This is the crux of the matter, and one that is not easily resolved. VMSL will die in the marketplace if HP does nothing more than they are doing now.  F  There have been several companies where new products were prematurelyF announced to supercede old ones, and current sales tanked, not becauseJ customers believed that the new products were bad, but because they wantedH to hold off their purchases in order to get more bang for the buck. BothK Digital (VAX/Alpha transition) and Apple spring to mind, and Palm if memory K serves me correctly. And these were instances where the customers felt thatp9 the vendor was completely committed to the product lines.   L However with ChumHPaq and Alpha/VMS they feel to a great extent that they'veJ been sold down the river. Not many people I speak with think that IA-64 inJ any flavor, in any reasonable timeframe, will be worth the effort, despiteB VMS being ported to it. Most of them would rather purchase used orF new-in-the-box, obsolete Alpha's and cluster them for their commercialL workloads. That doesn't bring HP much revenue, which further exacerbates the downward spiral.  I On the other hand, actively promoting VMS to a new and expanding customerUI base, provides for those customers mentioned above a measure of certaintyrK that goes beyond lip-service. It takes matters beyond 'Great product, shamea about the company'.s   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:29:55 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>' Subject: Re: VMS freewaret; Message-ID: <01KOTBV0V27C9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  I > I'm reading that differently. I'm hearing "what's missing that you wanteI > us to port?" True, it'd be nice to see a link to process, but don't letTG > that omission blind you to the important bit; they're asking us which  > gaps to fill in.  E That's fine, but why have links to (just) things like ZIP and TAR for:I which, as far as I know, HP had nothing to do with the port (unless they 4 re-invented the wheel).o   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:28:41 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: VMS freeware ; Message-ID: <01KOTBU64CWI9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  H > You seem to be talking about Freeware, whereas Leo seems to be talkingD > about things like Kerberos an STUNNEL on which VMS Engineering has" > applied some integration effort.  . Well, the page has things like ZIP and TAR....   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 03:27:24 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)/ Subject: Re: VMS freewareT3 Message-ID: <kBAi7uETJqB9@eisner.encompasserve.org>O  w In article <01KOTBU64CWI9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:sI >> You seem to be talking about Freeware, whereas Leo seems to be talkingnE >> about things like Kerberos an STUNNEL on which VMS Engineering hasc# >> applied some integration effort.r > 0 > Well, the page has things like ZIP and TAR....  I I presume those are "enabling technologies" for other kits they offer :-).   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:17:11 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: VMS freewarem; Message-ID: <01KOTHPVOYDYA23PDU@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  L > I presume those are "enabling technologies" for other kits they offer :-)   B In that case, I would have expected gzip, since .tar-gz is common.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:33:58 -05003* From: "Leo Demers" <leo_dot_demers@HP.COM> Subject: Re: VMS freewaree* Message-ID: <aqtrgk$5ce$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  L Well thanks for the Feedback folks and thanks to the folks that have sent in* requests to the email account at the page.  K  The Open Source Tools WebPages and CD (in your 7.3-1 kit) started out as ar& way for OpenVMS Engineering to provideJ  access to sources of Open Source ports that we had done so we can be good% Open Source citizens.  For the crypto-J  ports it's also required  by export law.   What we are slowly evolving it0 into is a collection of Open Source ports to VMS5  that the OpenVMS Engineering team has had a hand in. K  You will also note that projects like GNV  and the CD writer are out theree as well.K  OpenVMS Engineering is not looking to duplicate or replace any of the finee< work that many folks have already done in the freeware arenaJ  instead  we were looking to develop a place for Open Source projects that: have some level of OpenVMS Engineering support behind them.  were some of our customers can get them from.  ( Thanks for your interest in this effort.    - LeoL  Ps. Larry was right we included TAR and ZIP in the CD to enable folks to be# able to Open up the kits on the CD. L  On the WebPages we just pointing to the existing kits in the freeware site. --
 Leo Demers  OpenVMS Security Product Manager Leo_dot_Demers_at_HP_dot_COMF "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KOTHPVOYDYA23PDU@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...rI > > I presume those are "enabling technologies" for other kits they offer  :-)h >dD > In that case, I would have expected gzip, since .tar-gz is common.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:24:08 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>tG Subject: Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NAT-; Message-ID: <01KOTBMEZE429ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   N > > thing your basic NAT router cannot do is route an inbound port to multipleM > > inside addresses (but it can route it to your cluster alias, which may bea$ > > just as good for your purposes). > ? > My router only routes to IP adresses. If the cluster alias is H > implemented as a DNS based solution, then how could the consumer grade@ > router be made to route an incoming call to a cluster alias ?   G There is some confusion here.  If you mean "load balancing" via metric  H server, load broker etc---or round robin---by "DNS based solution" then D your objection is correct.  However, by "cluster alias" I meant the 3 cluster alias which one can set up in TCPIP$CONFIG.d   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:27:44 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> G Subject: Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NATf; Message-ID: <01KOTBRAO1YG9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d  F > I don't think a typical TELNET, FTP, HTML, etc. server would care atD > all that you are creating multiple connections from a single host.  H Of course not.  I do it all the time (even from/to the same accounts on F both client and target systems) when no NAT/PAT is involved.  Whether H it's a real system or a router making multiple connections is something E the server shouldn't (and maybe can't) care about.  Of course, there NG might be a limit on the number of connections, but that is a different g issue.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:04:49 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)G Subject: Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NATd. Message-ID: <aqtt71$7k7$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes in article <3DD17D4D.CF3E58DA@vl.videotron.ca> dated Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:14:52 -0500:r >"Keith A. Lewis" wrote:M >> thing your basic NAT router cannot do is route an inbound port to multipleuL >> inside addresses (but it can route it to your cluster alias, which may be# >> just as good for your purposes).e >gO >My router only routes to IP adresses. If the cluster alias is implemented as acN >DNS based solution, then how could the consumer grade router be made to route& >an incoming call to a cluster alias ?  J If you only have one external IP address, all of your external DNS entriesK had better point to that!  DNS-based IP rotation requires multiple external 
 IP addresses.   H I was talking about the cluster alias IP address which you can do insideK Digital tcp/ip.  This gives you failover but not load-balancing.  You couldT9 set the internal IP addresses of your cluster members to:p       192.168.1.1o     192.168.1.2      192.168.1.3h     192.168.1.4   4 and then set the cluster alias IP on each of them to       192.168.1.99  F Tell your router that that's your DMZ host.  The first machine to bootI (tcpip$startup.com) gets its regular address as well as the cluster aliassK address.  When that node leaves the cluster, some other node takes over themK alias.  Existing connections are dropped, but if a client is between clickse% on a HTTP server it will be seamless.   G If you want to do load-balancing in this situation, you probably need arJ router with that feature designed in.  Maybe you could write a daemon thatL runs on the cluster and sends commands to the router to rotate the DMZ host,F but if the router software isn't up to the task it could cause dropped connections.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgs> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:33:22 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: VMS Sales; Message-ID: <01KOTBXYAPLE9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-  J > What's not working?  Island is selling/reselling VMS systems, and that'sH > good for Island, and that's good for us.  They can focus on selling toJ > those who may only want a single small system, or a used system.  And ifG > what I hear in this newgroup is any indication, they do a good job at  > it.   G In another post in this thread, it was mentioned that BOEING is buying mI ALPHAs from Island and not from HP.  Shouldn't that worry HP, especially aD if the reason is that they can't find out whom to buy from and find I Island in a Google search before finding a salesman at HP?  For me, that hG would be OK (assuming I buy a hobbyist/used/small system from Island), s but BOEING?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:12:55 +1100 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>o Subject: Re: VMS Sales, Message-ID: <3DD225A7.5040904@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Phillip Helbig wrote:hJ >>What's not working?  Island is selling/reselling VMS systems, and that'sH >>good for Island, and that's good for us.  They can focus on selling toJ >>those who may only want a single small system, or a used system.  And ifG >>what I hear in this newgroup is any indication, they do a good job atj >>it.  >  > I > In another post in this thread, it was mentioned that BOEING is buying >K > ALPHAs from Island and not from HP.  Shouldn't that worry HP, especially  F > if the reason is that they can't find out whom to buy from and find K > Island in a Google search before finding a salesman at HP?  For me, that sI > would be OK (assuming I buy a hobbyist/used/small system from Island), m
 > but BOEING?   H In a past world with Digital, we were actually assigned a Digital sales I rep.  Even though our group are not big buyers, he used to come and chat  I with us he was when in to see the corporate big buyers.  Got a few sales 0H through us too.  At some point this changed and Digital would no longer H sell to anyone.  (I think this occurred in Digitals's days).  We had to ( do everything through 3rd party vendors.  A My understanding was this was a conscious decision by DEC/Compaq.w  H WRT Island, we are gov owned and not allowed to buy outside our shores,  except for ... and ... and ...  D And of course everyone buys Micro$oft (but isn't that an Australian  company :-)e   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************o  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedw> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.d  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid nA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the c= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with 0C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************2   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 03:01:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)3 Subject: RE: VMS Sales3 Message-ID: <JHtilpZaVBLO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ~ In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B49@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:  G > One test I did with Cobol V2.8 install on my DEC3000 - took about 6-7 C > minutes. On these ES45's with the 2GB SAN stuff, it was about 6-7u
 > seconds.  @ So on an EV7 machine, may we conclude the run would be completed before you gave the command ?t   :-)'   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:18:08 +0100 (MET)c9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a Subject: Re: VMS Sales; Message-ID: <01KOTFMPURGQA23PDU@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   I > > One test I did with Cobol V2.8 install on my DEC3000 - took about 6-7dE > > minutes. On these ES45's with the 2GB SAN stuff, it was about 6-7  > > seconds. > B > So on an EV7 machine, may we conclude the run would be completed > before you gave the command ?p >  > :-)r    $  SET PROCESS/MODE=THIOTIMOLINE   :-)i  2 %JBC-S-JOBCOMPLETE, job completed before execution   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 02:49:45 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: Re: VMS Sales( Message-ID: <aqtao90fs9@drn.newsguy.com>  ? In article <ut3bm7fmmeu1f8@news.supernews.com>, "ICUSC" says...  >O >Tom >eL >We only started looking at the figures this year - new accounting system to >handle bigger transactionso > L >But from memory and looking at our project system, I would say system salesI >in general were about 40% of total sales and of those sales it was abouti& >50/50 Unix/VMS for both 2001 and 2000H >Before 2000 requires DAT tapes and that is where I draw the line - just# >there for the IRS if necessary :0(E  N If HP is seeing the same shift in the mix, it must be causing quite a stir. HP9 not offered you the job of VMS marketing manager yet? :-)o   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 02:53:25 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: RE: VMS Sales( Message-ID: <aqtav50gju@drn.newsguy.com>  
 In articleP <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B49@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, says...  >E >Lyndon, >&I >>>> well whatever you call them, they really hit a "sweet spot" with the:A >ES40s. Good performance, good price.... Just darn nice boxes.<<<0 >EI >Yep. I'm doing large VAX to Alpha migration in Toronto right now and theiG >target platform hardware is 3 ES45's, each has dual 1.25Ghz CPU's, 4Gbk/ >memory and each are connected to 2GB SAN ..=20m  C That's not vey much storage. 2GB... Yes I know you mean 2GB/sec :-)s  G >Software - VMS V7.3-1 with TCPware V5.6 and latest Oracle Rdb V7.1.0.3s >uF >Great fun and I am looking forward to see what the run times of a fewF >big jobs this Customer has i.e. they are moving from VAX 7620's (6 of' >them actually in large CI cluster).=20e  N It will be so fast after switchover, users will phone up and say things aren'tK working because "It can't have done anything because it responded so fast."x0 That's what we got when moving from 7620 to ES40  F >One test I did with Cobol V2.8 install on my DEC3000 - took about 6-7B >minutes. On these ES45's with the 2GB SAN stuff, it was about 6-7	 >seconds.c >  >:-) >r >Regards >  >Kerry Mainp >Senior Consultant >Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.n" >Consulting & Integration Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax   : 613-591-4477" >Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcomm. >    (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s) >n >e >t >-----Original Message-----h9 >From: Lyndon Bartels [mailto:lbartels@pressenter.com]=20.  >Sent: November 12, 2002 7:55 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: VMS Sales  >  >s >Island wrote: >>=20 K >> Actually, in a world of depressed markets we have seen a 30% increase=20a8 >> in revenue, marked by around 50% increase in systems. >>=20vG >> And these are not the PWS style small systems, they are primarily=20  >> DS20e and ES40 boxes. >v >yF >Digital... no.. uh Compaq... no... HP... well whatever you call them,F >they really hit a "sweet spot" with the ES40s. Good performance, good  >price.... Just darn nice boxes. >uI >With VMS and it's clustering... It'd take a lot make me want to put in at? >Wildfire machine as opposed to a cluster of 3 or 4 or 5 ES4Xs.u >r >i >Lyndons >t >--=20H >My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my
 >employer. >n >tI >The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don'tA" >have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:15:52 -0500f' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: VMS SalesT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B4D@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  D >>> So on an EV7 machine, may we conclude the run would be completed  before you gave the command ?<<<  G Yep, one of the new options is to plug a set of earphones into the main&F system and you can simply think about what you would like it to do andG it will do it for you. No commands need to be typed. English only right ! now, but future languages coming.d  F [Just do not think about any competition systems with the ear plugs on as nasty things might happen]h   :-)t   Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantw Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)n       -----Original Message-----7 From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]=20s Sent: November 13, 2002 4:01 AM. To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu Subject: RE: VMS Sales    
 In articleH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B49@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>+ , "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:m  J > One test I did with Cobol V2.8 install on my DEC3000 - took about 6-7=20F > minutes. On these ES45's with the 2GB SAN stuff, it was about 6-7=20
 > seconds.  G So on an EV7 machine, may we conclude the run would be completed beforek you gave the command ?   :-)r   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:19:36 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: VMS Sales3 Message-ID: <u91x8VYCawSK@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  w In article <01KOTBXYAPLE9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:o > I > In another post in this thread, it was mentioned that BOEING is buying  K > ALPHAs from Island and not from HP.  Shouldn't that worry HP, especially aF > if the reason is that they can't find out whom to buy from and find K > Island in a Google search before finding a salesman at HP?  For me, that OI > would be OK (assuming I buy a hobbyist/used/small system from Island),  
 > but BOEING?o  J   Generally _Boeing_ doesn't but anything.  Some worker in some department-   needs a bunch of Alphas, he finds a vendor.f  F   One of the things we lost by the time DEC ended was a sales contact,E   the other was a corporate discount agreement.  I suspect Boeing andt   others have seen similar.t   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 07:21:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: RE: VMS Sales3 Message-ID: <XoSXpvPleJyi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ~ In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B4D@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > E >>>> So on an EV7 machine, may we conclude the run would be completeds" > before you gave the command ?<<< > I > Yep, one of the new options is to plug a set of earphones into the main H > system and you can simply think about what you would like it to do andI > it will do it for you. No commands need to be typed. English only rightn# > now, but future languages coming.n  L I am thinking I want the screen to be Green.  No, Blue !  Aieeeeeeeeeee.....  H > [Just do not think about any competition systems with the ear plugs on > as nasty things might happen]d >  > :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:21:46 GMTu# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i Subject: Re: RE: VMS SalesI Message-ID: <KlsA9.77428$MGm1.66700@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message" news:aqtav50gju@drn.newsguy.com... >rI > It will be so fast after switchover, users will phone up and say things" aren'tF > working because "It can't have done anything because it responded so fast."2 > That's what we got when moving from 7620 to ES40  K After a short while, those same users will be calling for a faster computer'J with faster response time. But HP won't have anything to deliver - no EV8, just Itanic.  K May as well tell them that what they have currently is as fast as they will( get prior to the port to AIX.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:42:51 GMTg5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>m Subject: Re: RE: VMS Sales2 Message-ID: <vawA9.25$nf5.838834@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Smith wrote in message ...s > 3 >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2# >news:aqtav50gju@drn.newsguy.com...m >>J >> It will be so fast after switchover, users will phone up and say things >aren'tnG >> working because "It can't have done anything because it responded so  >fast." 3 >> That's what we got when moving from 7620 to ES40s >nL >After a short while, those same users will be calling for a faster computerK >with faster response time. But HP won't have anything to deliver - no EV8,t
 >just Itanic.* > L >May as well tell them that what they have currently is as fast as they will >get prior to the port to AIX. >e  J Oh come on.  You've beaten this dead horse a little too long.  If they areJ upgrading from VAXes to ES45s, by the time they need to upgrade from ES45sH to something faster, Itanium will be there - or even the Marvel systems.H You can try to poo-poo things by comparing it to "EV8 what-ifs", but youJ ignore the fact that Itanium has respectable performance today, and by theK time that this customer upgrades will be every bit as fast as anything elseo
 out there.  J I'm unhappy that we don't have 2Ghz VAX systems.  Just like I'll wish thatL we had 1THz EV12 systems 10 years from now.  But we *will* have something to: deliver - it just will be on Itanium and not VAX or Alpha.  I AND WE STILL WILL BE SUPPORTING THOSE ES45 SYSTEMS THE CUSTOMER BOUGHT 10aH YEARS AGO.  JUST LIKE WE STILL SUPPORT THOSE VAX 7620's THEY ARE RUNNING TODAY.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 02:35:37 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>lH Subject: Re: VMS V7.2-1 v. Exabyte EXB-8505XL and compression/compaction( Message-ID: <aqt9tp0d9j@drn.newsguy.com>  B In article <02111219014904@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org says... > H >   Ok.  As my XP1000 has made the transition from perky to paperweight,@ >I thought I'd try enabling compression/compaction on my ExabyteF >EXB8505XL 8mm tape drive ("device type EXABYTE EXB-8505SMBANSH2", andE >revision level 0793, according to SCSI_INFO), on my AlpSta 200 4/233"0 >running VMS V7.2-1.  (It's in a nice Sun case.)  G Maybe not the problem but there were multiple bugs concerning incorrectsL compression in 7.2-1 as shipped. Install all patches if you have not already done so.  I >   Naturally, /MEDIA_FORMAT = COMPACTION has no obvious effect when usedtF >on BACKUP, INITIALIZE, and/or MOUNT.  (Instead of green, the activityI >LED should be amber when compression is enabled.)  Is MKDRIVER incapablerG >of dealing with this feature of this drive?  Is there a good method toi2 >fake it?  Is everything all better in VMS V7.3-1? >-I >------------------------------------------------------------------------  >r5 >   Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818s4 >   382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.org >   Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:50:07 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e= Subject: Re: What EV am I running (family name for processor)a; Message-ID: <01KOTN1OQF8CA23PDU@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   C > Hmm, it isn't in 7.2-1 (no H1) and I'd argue strongly that changeeH > shouldn't have been made in a H release.I do have it on our 7.3-1 test
 > system.    $ sh syst/noprocN OpenVMS V7.2-1H1  on node FOOBAR  13-NOV-2002 14:48:08.83  Uptime  16 23:54:31 $ help show cpu/fule           SHOW     CPUu  	     /FULLs  ?        Produces information from the summary display. The /FULLoF        qualifier also lists the current CPU state, the current process   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:27:49 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>E= Subject: Re: What EV am I running (family name for processor) ) Message-ID: <aqtnh5022m3@drn.newsguy.com>e  K In article <01KOTN1OQF8CA23PDU@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip says...e >tD >> Hmm, it isn't in 7.2-1 (no H1) and I'd argue strongly that changeI >> shouldn't have been made in a H release.I do have it on our 7.3-1 testo >> system. r >y >$ sh syst/noprocdO >OpenVMS V7.2-1H1  on node FOOBAR  13-NOV-2002 14:48:08.83  Uptime  16 23:54:31e >$ help show cpu/ful  N What are you saying here? I believe it is in 7.2-1H1 if people say it is. I amO saying it should *not* be there if it wasn't in 7.2-1. Here is 7.2-1. Note thatt4 SHOW CPU/FULL does *not* give the extended CPU info.   $ sho sys/noprocK OpenVMS V7.2-1  on node XXXA1  13-NOV-2002 14:25:01.20  Uptime  84 05:32:44u
 $ sho cpu/fuls    XXXA1, a Compaq AlphaServer ES40E Multiprocessing is ENABLED. Streamlined synchronization image loaded.60 Minimum multiprocessing revision levels: CPU = 1   System Page Size = 8192y System Revision Code =! System Serial Number = AY9370XXXXg Default CPU Capabilities: "         System:         QUORUM RUN Default Process Capabilities:Y"         System:         QUORUM RUN   PRIMARY CPU = 00   CPU 00 is in RUN state/ Current Process: _TNA4144:       PID = 21B2DC3B  Serial Number:  AY00213XXXX 	 Revision: ( VAX floating point operations supported.8 IEEE floating point operations and data types supported. Processor is Primary Eligible.  PALCODE: Revision Code = 1.93-01"          PALcode Compatibility = 1&          Maximum Shared Processors = 4<          Memory Space:  Physical address = 00000000 00000000"                         Length = 0<          Scratch Space: Physical address = 00000000 00000000"                         Length = 0 Capabilities of this CPU:p*         System:         PRIMARY QUORUM RUN- Processes which can only execute on this CPU:8C         NETACP           PID = 21A00216  Reason: PRIMARY Capability:' AUTOSTART is enabled for CPU migration.-, Enabled for use as a Fastpath Preferred CPU.$ Fastpath ports assigned to this CPU:         *** None ***   CPU 01 is in RUN state Current Process: *** None ***  Serial Number:  AY0021XXXX	 Revision:t( VAX floating point operations supported.8 IEEE floating point operations and data types supported. Processor is Primary Eligible.  PALCODE: Revision Code = 1.93-01"          PALcode Compatibility = 1&          Maximum Shared Processors = 4<          Memory Space:  Physical address = 00000000 00000000"                         Length = 0<          Scratch Space: Physical address = 00000000 00000000"                         Length = 0 Capabilities of this CPU:g"         System:         QUORUM RUN- Processes which can only execute on this CPU:          *** None ***' AUTOSTART is enabled for CPU migration.a, Enabled for use as a Fastpath Preferred CPU.$ Fastpath ports assigned to this CPU:         *** None *** $        >  >n >i >d >SHOW  >u >  CPU >-
 >    /FULL >-@ >       Produces information from the summary display. The /FULLG >       qualifier also lists the current CPU state, the current process: >e   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:20:29 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>c> Subject: Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor); Message-ID: <01KOTBJL8YPU9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  J > Note - I could not find when the /FULL qualifier was added, but it is inG > V7.3 as well as V7.3-1. The $ SHOW CPU /FULL really does have lots of  > useful info. ,  ; It's in 7.2-1H1 as well, and also documented in HELP there.p   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 00:22:51 -0800% From: mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman)-> Subject: Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor)= Message-ID: <1d08b916.0211130022.4164e81e@posting.google.com>o   rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in message news:<rdeininger-1211020740310001@1cust184.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...g? > In article <1d08b916.0211120431.3d10da03@posting.google.com>, ( > mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman) wrote: > E > >Does anyknow how to find out what type of cpu you have on openVMS?  > >l  > >In Tru64 Unix its like this:- > >i > ># sizer -implverC > >EV5 >  > From a priv'd account: >  > $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM > SDA> CLUE CONFIG > K > This is the most complete information I know of, in partly-readable form.   O The fields called 'CPU Type' under Per-CPU Slot Processor Information is blank.r Any other way to find out?   OpenVMS V6.2 AlphaServer 2100 5/300 e  # Per-CPU Slot Processor Information:D CPU ID         00     # CPU Type       EV5  Pass 4 (21164) G PAL Code       1.19-2        r   The ES40 displayse $ sh sys/noproclL OpenVMS V7.2-2  on node FALCON 13-NOV-2002 08:19:18.06  Uptime  425 12:52:38   CPU ID         00        i
     <<blank>>  PAL Code       1.93-101      Regardsd   Mark   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 04:13:17 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>>> Subject: Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor)) Message-ID: <aqtfkt0123j@drn.newsguy.com>>  K In article <01KOTBJL8YPU9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip says...e > K >> Note - I could not find when the /FULL qualifier was added, but it is in H >> V7.3 as well as V7.3-1. The $ SHOW CPU /FULL really does have lots of >> useful info.  >-< >It's in 7.2-1H1 as well, and also documented in HELP there.  P Hmm, it isn't in 7.2-1 (no H1) and I'd argue strongly that change shouldn't have? been made in a H release.I do have it on our 7.3-1 test system.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:05:38 -0500:' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>t> Subject: RE: What EV am I running? (family name for processor)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B4C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Mark,   H Here is extract from $ SHOW CPU /Full on my standalone DEC3000 M400 withB VMS V7.3-1 running: (apologies if the formatting gets messed up in sending in email format)   ++++++++++++++++++++ OTOU01> sho cpu /fulle  " System: OTOU01, DEC 3000 Model 400  1   SMP execlet   =3D 3 : Disabled : Uniprocessing.    Config tree   =3D None5   Primary CPU   =3D 0                             =20a=   HWRPB CPUs    =3D 1                                     =20-=   Page Size     =3D 8192                                  =20 5   Revision Code =3D                               =20:   Serial Number =3D=20   Default CPU Capabilities:m         System: QUORUM RUN=204   Default Process Capabilities:g         System: QUORUM RUN=20d  G CPU 0    State: RUN                CPUDB: 81410000     Handle: * None *e2        Process: MAIN                 PID: 00000B64   Capabilities:i*         System: PRIMARY QUORUM RUN RAD0=20   Slot Context: 8354A200<      CPU     -  State..........: RC, PA, PP, CV, PV, PMV, PL<                 Type...........: EV4 (21064), Pass 3 or EV4s(                 Speed..........: 133 Mhz0                 Variation......: VAX FP, IEEE FP#                 Serial Number..:=20u%                 Revision.......: F001e"                 Halt Request...: 0$                 Software Comp..: 2.1(      PALCODE -  Revision Code..: 5.56-01"                 Compatibility..: 0"                 Max Shared CPUs: 0I                 Memory  Space..: Physical =3D 00000000.00054000  Length =o =3D  81920rI                 Scratch Space..: Physical =3D 00000000.00104000  Length =a =3D  8192   Bindings:aB      NETACP           PID =3D 00000118  Reason: PRIMARY Capability   Fastpath:     * None *   Features:a      Autostart - Enabled.d4      Fastpath  - Selection enabled as Preferred CPU.     ++++++++++++++++++++ Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanth Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660l Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----/ From: Mark Bowman [mailto:mb301@hotmail.com]=20e Sent: November 13, 2002 3:23 AMd To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr> Subject: Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor)    = rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in messagecG news:<rdeininger-1211020740310001@1cust184.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...r? > In article <1d08b916.0211120431.3d10da03@posting.google.com>,a( > mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman) wrote: >=20E > >Does anyknow how to find out what type of cpu you have on openVMS?s > >n  > >In Tru64 Unix its like this:- > >p > ># sizer -implver- > >EV5 >=20 > From a priv'd account: >=20 > $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM > SDA> CLUE CONFIG >=20H > This is the most complete information I know of, in partly-readable=20 > form.V  H The fields called 'CPU Type' under Per-CPU Slot Processor Information is! blank. Any other way to find out?u   OpenVMS V6.2 AlphaServer 2100 5/300=20o  # Per-CPU Slot Processor Information:  CPU ID         00    =20% CPU Type       EV5  Pass 4 (21164)=20  PAL Code       1.19-2       =20t   The ES40 displays  $ sh sys/noprochC OpenVMS V7.2-2  on node FALCON 13-NOV-2002 08:19:18.06  Uptime  425o 12:52:38   CPU ID         00       =20n
     <<blank>>o PAL Code       1.93-101 =20-   Regardse   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:52:34 +0000sE From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net>9E Subject: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at Montagar?e8 Message-ID: <r8t4tug3a900d271ibr2470ntt3lpbkt2k@4ax.com>  , The site hasn't been updated for months now?   Regardse Jamie P Stallwoode   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:26:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen):I Subject: Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at Montagar?f3 Message-ID: <YWmFgSkRo1nH@eisner.encompasserve.org>r   In article <r8t4tug3a900d271ibr2470ntt3lpbkt2k@4ax.com>, Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net> writes:. > The site hasn't been updated for months now?  & There is no VAX V7.3-1 release of VMS.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.628 ************************