1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 16 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 633       Contents:8 "Pet Sounds Live" tour (was: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping) Re: %rms-f-dme on vms 7.3 4 Anyone using EVA/EMA and VOL Shadowing DRM solution?8 Re: Anyone using EVA/EMA and VOL Shadowing DRM solution? Re: Atlant's rants...  Re: Atlant's rants...  Re: Atlant's rants... ' Re: backup: /since input file qualifier ' Re: backup: /since input file qualifier M Re: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from the OpenVMS OS? M Re: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from the OpenVMS OS?   Re: Capellas to head up WorldCom  Re: Capellas to head up WorldCom  Re: Capellas to head up WorldCom Re: CDE GUI died...  Re: Detecting non-Files-11 disk   Re: Empty text module in libraryB Follow-up   Re: VAXStation 3100 ....not booting, speaks in tongues Re: HP Advocacy Site HP gains on supercomputer list# Identifying an email user (VMSmail) ' Re: Identifying an email user (VMSmail) ) Re: Installing VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 3400 ) Re: Installing VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 3400  Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Linking problem - need help % Re: Need GCC binaries for VAX VMS 5.5 % RE: Need GCC binaries for VAX VMS 5.5 - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - RE: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? " Re: OpenVMS books : seeking advice" Re: OpenVMS books : seeking advice" Re: OpenVMS books : seeking advice" Re: OpenVMS books : seeking advice Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping, Re: parsing file name (refer to time thread), Re: parsing file name (refer to time thread)1 Re: Primary home block anywhere other than LBN 1? 1 Re: Primary home block anywhere other than LBN 1? ? Re: Problem with Hunter Goatley's ODS2 win version and MO drive # Re: Synchronization VMS/Unix clocks  test Re: Turnaround artist???> Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NAT5 Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor) A Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at  Montagar? @ Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at Montagar? [OT] HP has big cheeses  Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses  Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses  Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses  Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses  Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses  Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2002 09:09:38 GMT7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) A Subject: "Pet Sounds Live" tour (was: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping) ! Message-ID: <JaxSgvMhuRvY@rabbit>   G There is also an excellent CD culled from the tour (or a previous one).   M You Brits have all the luck - such a tour would probably bomb in the 'States!    :-)   ` In article <4477tu0em743c13lcg0fdj4qgram3spoq8@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:: > On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:12:54 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig- > <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:  >  > H >>I seem to recall reading in the excellent British music magazine Mojo C >>that, back in the early 70s, folks who used to hang out at Brian  J >>Wilson's pad (hey, if I talk about the error, I have to do it properly) D >>used to use cheeze whiz as one of their many drugs.  I'm sure the . >>propellant has heady psychedelic properties. > E > Well I don't know what effect that had but Brian Wilson got several D > standing ovations from a capacity crowd at the Edinburgh PlayhouseG > just a few months ago on his 36 years delayed "Pet Sounds Live" tour.  > C > He might sometimes look like a Zombie these days but he can still H > arrange and belt out all his greatest Beach Boys hits - performance atH > the Queens Jubilee Concert notwithstanding. Even tossed in some of theH > lost masterpieces from the aborted 1967 "Smile" album which never made" > it to the cut-down Smiley-Smile. > F > If you ever get a chance to see him live with his current band, jumpD > at it. The musical genius is still there. And yes, you get all the4 > other classics from Barbra Ann to Good Vibrations. >  >  > -- > Alan --   Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"  "Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 02 05:19:53 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) " Subject: Re: %rms-f-dme on vms 7.3) Message-ID: <Wz4MWVmivLgm@elias.decus.ch>   i In article <ar2iab$pjb$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk>, "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:  > ? > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message 0 > news:ar2go0$nh1$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...* >> I've seen %rms-f-dme a couple of times.H >> Now I'm seeing it all the time, for one ordinary captive user, during >> sylogin. 7 >> Initially it occurred doing a dir of her mail files. L >> I added some diagnostics (sh sym, sh log, sh tran, sh proc) and it occurs > on >> them.( >> It seems there's a leak or something. > > > Situation fixed (for her, for now) by tidying her directory.I > She had some 5000 or so files (mostly Powerhouse subfiles) in her login K > directory, of which just two were mail files. I've no idea why sho log or  > sho proc/quo gave rms-f-dme. > K > I've seen %rms-f-dme once before recently (submitting a batch job, to the M > system account I think), but it wasn't repeated, so I didn't follow up. I'm L > now concerned that there's a latent problem here which could cause a bunch, > of people to suddenly be unable to log in. >   * Two main causes for this in my experience.   1. Use of SET RMS/BUFFER_COUNT 2. SET PROCESS/NORESOURCE_WAIT  L On 2, many years ago, a certain UK company (now deceased) used to distributeJ login files with this command embedded. It was a pain in the neck, totally? unnecessary, and often led to the very error you are reporting.  This is what HELP says:    SET   	   PROCESS        /RESOURCE_WAIT             /RESOURCE_WAIT           /NORESOURCE_WAIT  ?        Enables resource wait mode so that the process waits for E        resources to become available. If you specify the /NORESOURCE_ E        WAIT qualifier, the process receives an error status code when A        system dynamic memory is not available or when the process F        exceeds one of the following resource quotas: direct I/O limit,D        buffered I/O limit, or buffered I/O byte count (buffer space)
        quota.   +                                     CAUTION   F           Disabling resource waiting should be performed with caution,@           as doing so can have unexpected effects on constituentE           sharable images and runtime libraries. Refer to the $SETRWM E           service in the OpenVMS System Services Reference Manual for !           additional information.     --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:21:19 -0500 ! From: kuff@comcast.net (Cable NJ) = Subject: Anyone using EVA/EMA and VOL Shadowing DRM solution? O Message-ID: <E0B1CBB92A328474.A5CE4D24EFE201F0.57AA05DFBC149C3A@lp.airnews.net>   H    I'm looking for comments on sites using EVA SAN in two locations withG Volumeshadowing as a DRM solution between the sites.... What throughput 7 are you getting ... ATM or Fibre... for an inteconnect?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:03:48 -0500 0 From: "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com>A Subject: Re: Anyone using EVA/EMA and VOL Shadowing DRM solution? / Message-ID: <ut9s4g4u26np6c@corp.supernews.com>   I I have done a number of tests using Volume Shadowing between remote sites K using ATM as the link ( Digital Networks VN switches) and found there to be I unmeasureable degredation at 50 miles and we had an 8% degradation at 100 H miles.  This test was setup in the VMS lab using a physical spool of 100H mile single mode fibre cable between the switches so there was no signalJ loss due to switching through some 3rd party trunks either.  This test was' using an ESA12000 with HSG80's as well.   K I've also worked with clients who are using VMS volume Shadowing on the EVA K between multiple cabinets though on the same site and that also works fine. K Given this I would surmise that you would probably see the same degradation H as we see in the first test depending on what kind of WAN connection was/ setup and the amount of I/O that you are doing.   J If you are interested in the complete test scenario email me and I'll have+ the folks at DNPG send you the test report.    Alan. "Cable NJ" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote in messageI news:E0B1CBB92A328474.A5CE4D24EFE201F0.57AA05DFBC149C3A@lp.airnews.net...  > J >    I'm looking for comments on sites using EVA SAN in two locations withI > Volumeshadowing as a DRM solution between the sites.... What throughput 9 > are you getting ... ATM or Fibre... for an inteconnect?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:21:38 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Atlant's rants.... Message-ID: <3DD502F2.EA4AAEEA@mindspring.com>   Ar Ya wrote:  E > I don't know anything about Medicare in particular.  I was speaking F > generally.  But if what you say is true, then it would surely be oneF > shining example among many to the contrary.  At least, that's what IG > believe.  I have no hard data either way -- I'm just a computer geek.  > > > What is your area of expertise?  You seem very knowledgable.  5 Just 47 year of hard knocks, my friend, just 47 years  of hard knocks.   8 That would include having my mother spend about a decade7 dying of Alzheimer's Disease and having my father spend ; about half a decade dying of kidney cancer; at least he was = cogent up until the end, so his affairs were in order, but he 9 pre-deceased my mom so quite a while later, we're *STILL* 3 untangling the legal messes left as a result of her " hospitalization in a nursing home.  $ I certainly won't do that to anyone.  
  -=-=-=-=-  6 Computerwise, I've done all sorts of things, generally2 somewhere down near the hardware/firmware/software2 "triple point". Of late, I've been integrating new3 semiconductor-industry-specific networking software : into a very large code base running on Solaris, but before8 that, I touched practically everything DEC had to offer.  9 I'm quite used to being on the "Wrong!" side of political 5 issues and called names; I still have (somewhere) the 1 E-Mail from Dave Cutler deeming me a "gadfly" and : a "flaming asshole". I keep it as a badge of pride; on the; issues that earned that sobriguet, time proved I was right, 6 and DEC eventually implemented (too late!) the changes6 I'd recommended so early-on that that so pissed of Mr.
 Cutler.(1)   Atlant    2 1) Maybe if DEC had acted sooner, a certain market3     would all speak VAXELN rather than VxWorks, and 3     run MicroVAX instead of SPARC, MC68K, IA32, and 
     PowerPCs.   ;     I suppose that's not unlike stories and speculations we 0     might all make about VMS, another Cutler OS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:30:00 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Atlant's rants.... Message-ID: <3DD504E8.2D8762E8@mindspring.com>  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   M > Cost-effective!  Competently-administered!  Surely you can't be considering % > the US gov't to be either of these.   6 Ahh, yet another "big lie", repeated often enough that some fools believe it.  6 Actually, more than a few government programs are very arguably great success stories.   2 World War II comes to mind, as does the Eisenhower0 Interstate Highway System as does most of NASA's5 work until they decided that cheap-and-unreliable was 1 better than expensive-but-good. I understand that 9 until some moron releases it back into the wild, Smallpox 8 has also been eliminated from the world as a result of a government program. Polio, too.   5 In fact, most of the Government programs that *DON'T* ; work are political failures, programs that were designed to 9 go in five different directions simultaneously (to try to 8 please all the competing political interests) and so end5 up going nowhere at all. federal "education" programs 6 clearly fall into this morass. The Confederacy wants a9 completely different result from their student body than, $ say, Silicon Valley and New England.  5 But when everyone agrees on the goals, the Government  clearly can succeed.   Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:59:37 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Atlant's rants...0 Message-ID: <00A17016.2BAD0BF5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <3DD504E8.2D8762E8@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  >  > " >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > N >> Cost-effective!  Competently-administered!  Surely you can't be considering& >> the US gov't to be either of these. > 7 >Ahh, yet another "big lie", repeated often enough that  >some fools believe it.  > 7 >Actually, more than a few government programs are very   >arguably great success stories. > 3 >World War II comes to mind, as does the Eisenhower 1 >Interstate Highway System as does most of NASA's 6 >work until they decided that cheap-and-unreliable was  >better than expensive-but-good.  G Ah... NASA... The 4 hour, everyday CDRs... so much accomplished in the  F preceding day's remaining 4 hours that it requires review the next.  A2 micro- and mis- management study at its very best.  F And having work under contract to various agencies within the US DoD, F civil servants reading (or more approriately, sleeping behind) a news-G paper for hours at their desk is certainly efficient and cost-effective F for the taxpayer.  Let's also not forget the virtual tenure for these / black and white and read all over afficionados.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 15 NOV 2002 18:28:06 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)0 Subject: Re: backup: /since input file qualifier6 Message-ID: <15NOV02.18280670@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  E In a previous article, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  ->>  [snip]  ->G ->   IIRC if the directory date updates, all files in it will be backed F ->   up.  I still don't know the rules for when the directory modifiedJ ->   date gets updated (it's not when a directory entry is added/removed).  F I just discovered this behavior is different in VMS 7.3 and beyond. InC fact, using /NOINCREMENTAL with /SINCE=BACKUP (though not the topic ' discussed in this thread) will produce:   B   %BACKUP-I-INVQUAL, qualifier /NOINCREMENTAL is ignored with the    /SINCE=BACKUP operation    In DSNlink article:   K   [OpenVMS] V7.3 BACKUP/NOINCREMENTAL/SINCE=BACKUP Returns BACKUP-I-INVQUAL   
 it states:  G   The entire directory is no longer saved when the revision date on the C   directory changes.  The XQP file system was changed to modify the D   revision date of the directory more often.   This caused BACKUP toC   save the entire directory during incremental save operations more G   frequently.  This increased the time it took to do incremental BACKUP G   and increased the size of the saveset.  To account for this BACKUP no E   longer will save the entire directory tree for directories that are H   modified.  BACKUP will now only save the entire directory tree for NEW   or RENAMED directories.   E Interestinly, I didn't see this mentioned in the release notes or new  features manuals.   B While this is an improvement I'd still like a way to revert to the7 Pre-version 6.2 behavior (/noincremental prior to 7.3).   ? I'm really curious to know exactly how backup determines that a D directory is NEW or RENAMED without using the dates on the directoryC file. I've changed the revision/creation dates of renamed directory D files trying to fool it into not saving the entire directory with noB success. How else can backup "know" a directory is NEW or RENAMED?   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 7 --                karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu      ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 02 06:50:36 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 0 Subject: Re: backup: /since input file qualifier) Message-ID: <27h8Ig+RpuFJ@elias.decus.ch>   a In article <+OIc0bUQURSR@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: V > In article <3DD50FF1.3090404@umich.edu>, Virginia Rogers <vrogers@umich.edu> writes:) >> Thanks.  Where can I find the VMS FAQ?  > < > 	The same place you can find most anything.  I start here: >  > 			http://www.google.com/  >   C I beg to differ. There are a lot of outdated versions listed there.      ( > 	If interested in more official links: > ! > 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  > B > 	Look for "OpenVMS faq" (lower right under Service and Support). >   5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html    >  --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:38:59 GMT 2 From: "William Tasso" <webmaster@FILTERtbdata.com>V Subject: Re: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from the OpenVMS OS?= Message-ID: <DsgB9.1944$3D5.15247510@news-text.cableinet.net>    Craig A. Berry wrote: ? > In article <8f01a52b.0211130915.574dd0b5@posting.google.com>, 0 >  sfudge@newfoundlandpower.com (Suzanne) wrote: > < >>  Is it possible to access an MS Sql Server database on an. >> Windows 2000 server from a openVMS server.? > G > See my previous answer to this same question here (URL may need to be 
 > unwrapped):  > K > <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=aae510ff.0207310733.3beb3627%40post  > ing.google.com&output=gplain>   K Are you sure about 'easysoft'?  When I used that software it was configured F to allow rms files to appear to be an odbc sql data source on the lan. --D William Tasso - The road to hell is littered with fallen webmasters. http://www.tbdata.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:35:30 -0600 7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> V Subject: Re: Can you access data on a MS Sql Server 2000 database from the OpenVMS OS?G Message-ID: <craigberry-E3A6EE.19353015112002@news.directvinternet.com>   = In article <DsgB9.1944$3D5.15247510@news-text.cableinet.net>, 4  "William Tasso" <webmaster@FILTERtbdata.com> wrote:   > Craig A. Berry wrote: A > > In article <8f01a52b.0211130915.574dd0b5@posting.google.com>, 2 > >  sfudge@newfoundlandpower.com (Suzanne) wrote: > > > > >>  Is it possible to access an MS Sql Server database on an0 > >> Windows 2000 server from a openVMS server.?  M > Are you sure about 'easysoft'?  When I used that software it was configured H > to allow rms files to appear to be an odbc sql data source on the lan.  G Yes, they do that too. Their web page does suggest, though, that their  & ODBC-ODBC bridge is available for VMS:  D <http://www.easysoft.com/products/9999/platforms.phtml?product=2002>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:17:58 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: Capellas to head up WorldCom / Message-ID: <3DD4E5F6.940A173E@vl.videotron.ca>    It is now official: D                             Worldcom Names Capellas as Chairman, CEO*                             40 minutes ago  I  NEW YORK (Reuters) - Michael Capellas, just departed from computer maker F Hewlett-Packard Co. will take the reins of bankrupt telecommunicationsL provider WorldCom Inc.  as chairman and chief executive officer, the company said on Friday.   M  He will replace interim CEO John Sidgmore and will face the daunting task of L rescuing the No. 2 U.S. long-distance telephone giant and one of the biggest2 movers of Internet traffic from being torn apart.   H  WorldCom filed for the biggest bankruptcy in U.S. history in July afterL revealing massive accounting problems, which will likely lead the company toN restate more than $9 billion in earnings. The company has some $40  billion in* liabilities and is fighting for survival.   N  The company is in talks with the Securities and Exchange Commission to settleM securities fraud charges which sources have said would include a fine against L WorldCom and extract promises not to violate securities laws in the future.   H  Capellas was the chief executive of Compaq Computer Corp. before it wasJ acquired by rival computer giant Hewlett-Packard last year. He then becameN president of the merged company. Terms of Capellas's compensation  are subjectM to court approval, which the company said expects to seek as early as Friday.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:20:22 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: Capellas to head up WorldCom / Message-ID: <3DD4E685.5F075D2C@vl.videotron.ca>   I If I had money, I'd be betting that the valuable assets (such as MCI, and M internet business) will be sold to Level 3 and Capellas will preside over the $ liquidation of the rest of Worldcom.  L Capellas will be there a few years, then get yet another big plush severance2 package and will just retire out of the limelight.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:57:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ) Subject: Re: Capellas to head up WorldCom I Message-ID: <m37B9.93413$MGm1.39717@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3DD4E685.5F075D2C@vl.videotron.ca... K > If I had money, I'd be betting that the valuable assets (such as MCI, and K > internet business) will be sold to Level 3 and Capellas will preside over  the & > liquidation of the rest of Worldcom. > D > Capellas will be there a few years, then get yet another big plush	 severance 4 > package and will just retire out of the limelight.   Wrong.  K He'll come back to HP after he's wound-up Worldcom. The timing will be just   about right for HP's bankruptcy.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Nov 02 05:25:50 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: CDE GUI died...) Message-ID: <1uMU50qnEG1d@elias.decus.ch>   R In article <3DD1AF5D.2090105@empire.net>, Mickalide <mickalide@empire.net> writes:I > The window manager dying if I remember correctly was a problem about a  J > year ago but I am not at work to try and find what specific release and  > what the fix was.  >  >  -Jim- >    >  > Mike Scott wrote:  > J >>I've got a Compaq Alphastation with factory installed v7.2-1 (never beenK >>ECO'd).  It has been purring along for years, yet twice in the past week, J >>the GUI up-and-died on me.  All that was remaining was a gray screen andN >>movable mouse pointer.  I could telnet in and RESTART the GUI, but of course7 >>lost control of the previously running apps -sigh.... K >>I've been researching, but can't find a common source (and resolution) to L >>this problem.  One VMS guru I spoke to has seen this behaviour in the pastL >>(he offered me the correct RESTART command).  Another guru had never heard >>of such a problem.H >>I was actively using the workstation, so I don't thing the problem wasJ >>screensaver-related.  Also during each event, I was not running the sameL >>app.  I have been running the same few apps on this box for years.  No newJ >>hardware of software changes in many months.  Anyone have some pieces to >>this puzzle? >>-with thanks >>Mike Scott >>  D I am reasonably confident that this is a problem with the protection@ of the subdirectories in <.DT.SESSIONS>. Changing the protectionA to OW:WRED should solve the problem, and I used to have a command  that did that in SYLOGIN.COM.     L >>btw: If ECOing is the answer, which kit specifically addresses this issue?6 >>I'd rather not start ECOing just for the heck of it. >>? I was told there was an ECO for this as far back as DEC V1.2-4, ; but I never found it. IIRC an ECO for V1.2-5 solved it (but 9 might have been part of a VMS upgrade in the V7.2-1 era).   F Before that, the appropriate SET PROT command in SYLOGIN kept my users happy. >  --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 00:51:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: Re: Detecting non-Files-11 disk3 Message-ID: <YT9+V$L$kpxu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <9e311bd1.0211141127.4d60a6d8@posting.google.com>, jsewell@iu.net (Joe Sewell) writes:   F > After doing a home block search, I discovered I had neglected to addB > MNT$M_NOASSIST to the flags going into $MOUNT.  The hang was VMS9 > trying to get the attention of a non-existent operator.   > That sounds like the machine is misconfigured, failing to do a? REPLY/DISABLE when the operator goes off duty (such as on first 	 boot :-).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:02:36 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ) Subject: Re: Empty text module in library & Message-ID: <3DD463CC.5FA3DEA@fsi.net>   Chris Sharman wrote: >  > Is this possible in any way ?  > * > $ libr/tex lpddevctl nl:/mod=msap$ctrl_d > N > ought to insert/replace a blank module. Instead it inserts a module with one
 > blank line. I > Not a big difference, but it's causing one of our printers to mishandle $ > jobs, because the first line isn't > "%!PS-Adobe" like it expects.  > L > I'm using lpddevctl (which works well on most printers) - an lpddevctl.tlb8 > to clone most of the functionality of msap$devctl.tlb. > / > We use all the same forms for both protocols. H > The problem is with the ps_plain form, which does nothing (just passes > through postscript).8 > For appletalk, it just sends a job separator (ctrl/d).G > For lpd, it needs to send nothing, which is what I want to put in the M > separator text module. Instead it sends a blank line, which is not the same  > thing. > > > Creating an empty file (rather than using nl:) doesn't help.N > The re-extracted module has the spurious blank line, as does the output from > the symbiont using it.  G Will the target misbehave if it gets two lines of "%!PS-Adobe"? If not,  could you use that?     How 'bout just a null character?  F In EDT, use GOLD-KP1 to do the "SPECial INSert". GOLD-0(zero)-GOLD KP1 will have the same effect.  ; Looks like the Librarian can't handle an empty file/module.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 12:35:40 -0800. From: brad.snyder@conectiv.com (fred_zeppelin)K Subject: Follow-up   Re: VAXStation 3100 ....not booting, speaks in tongues = Message-ID: <a4573c66.0211151235.29b1fd23@posting.google.com>    Thanks to those who replied.  B I was able to sneak in on the printer port as suggested by severalB folks.  Once in, I was able to reconfigure my Multinet IP comms toE Telnet in.  IP was broken because of a physical relocation of the box B to another building/subnet.  I was trying to straighten out the IP+ configuration when this problem cropped up.   < I believe the display problem is a semi-failed graphic/video@ card/board as suggested by several.  We're migrating this app toF another platform, so I only need to hold on another month or so.  I'll look into replacing the video.  7 thanks for timely and helpful advice to all ...... brad    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 06:44:25 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site ) Message-ID: <ar318902u5o@drn.newsguy.com>   7 In article <3DD4F3FA.99238614@mediasec.de>, Jan says...  > G >> Well, using JDBC is going to be a lot *less* clumsy and awkward than ' >> calling the RMS services directly.    > 7 >An SQL SELECT statement is less clumsy and akward that  > ! >	READ (10, KEYGE = "Joe") Record   & SELECT * from file where keyge ='Joe';1 does actually look less clumsy and awkward to me!   L And there is no high level RMS interface, such as the Fortran example above, available in C in any case.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:41:03 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>' Subject: HP gains on supercomputer list . Message-ID: <3DD5077F.C8870A6F@mindspring.com>  * http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-965923.html  
      Hardware #      HP gains on supercomputer list         By Stephen Shankland       Special to ZDNet News"      November 15, 2002, 5:07 AM PT  5     A supercomputer for simulating nuclear explosions 0     has advanced Hewlett-Packard's position in a4     ranking to be released Thursday night of the 500     fastest supercomputers.   8     Two segments of HP's ASCI Q system, built as part of3     the Energy Department's Advanced Simulation and 9     Computing program to substitute computer calculations 7     for full-fledged nuclear tests, took the second and      third spots in the ranking.   7     The new systems, being built at Los Alamos National 1     Laboratory, bumped IBM's ASCI White two spots 7     down the list. NEC's Earth Simulator remains No. 1, <     with nearly five times the total computing power of each     ASCI Q segment.      <more>    3   I've forgotten, but isn't ASCI-Q an Alpha system?   0   If so, someone might want to post a "Talkback"   or write to the author.      Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:58:38 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Identifying an email user (VMSmail)/ Message-ID: <3DD4A92C.405E7EA2@vl.videotron.ca>   	 Scenario:   J foreign mail protocol wants to pull a record from a separate profile to be used when sending an email.   M Now, when a user is on a cluster, he may be using any node to send an email.    V So, assuming a  cluster alias of CHOCOLAT , with nodes SWISS, FRENCH, BELGIUM, GERMAN.  N User "chef" logs in on FRENCH where is starts to send an email. Is there a wayK to ensure that the foreign mail protocol application will see the sender as , "CHOCOLAT::CHEF" instead of "FRENCH::CHEF" ?  
 Worse yet:  9 Lets say my foreign mail protocol resides on node PASTRY.   3 so CHEF , when composing an email would have to do:  	  TO: PASTRY::cocoa%email_address   L This means that the cocoa% transport will be running on node PASTRY. Will it2 see the "from" as FRENCH::CHEF or CHOCOLAT::CHEF ?  J Is there a way , from nodPASTRY:: to find out that FRENCH:: is part of the CHOCOLAT:: cluster alias ?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 09:29:24 +0100' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) 0 Subject: Re: Identifying an email user (VMSmail)+ Message-ID: <iYZGtg3CSYiY@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   b In article <3DD4A92C.405E7EA2@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Scenario: L > foreign mail protocol wants to pull a record from a separate profile to be > used when sending an email. O > Now, when a user is on a cluster, he may be using any node to send an email.  X > So, assuming a  cluster alias of CHOCOLAT , with nodes SWISS, FRENCH, BELGIUM, GERMAN.P > User "chef" logs in on FRENCH where is starts to send an email. Is there a wayM > to ensure that the foreign mail protocol application will see the sender as . > "CHOCOLAT::CHEF" instead of "FRENCH::CHEF" ? > Worse yet:; > Lets say my foreign mail protocol resides on node PASTRY. 5 > so CHEF , when composing an email would have to do: ! > TO: PASTRY::cocoa%email_address N > This means that the cocoa% transport will be running on node PASTRY. Will it4 > see the "from" as FRENCH::CHEF or CHOCOLAT::CHEF ?L > Is there a way , from nodPASTRY:: to find out that FRENCH:: is part of the > CHOCOLAT:: cluster alias ?  N Far from being a MAIL expert, but I think it's obvious , that the foreign mailL protocol has to implement the logic to produce the sender information in theB mail header: by translating somne system logicals, settings from aK configuration file or what else. Look how the various SMTP protocols do it:sO Compaq TCPIP SMTP via "TCPIP SET CONFIGURATION SMTP/substitute_domain" command.i  MadGoat MX via MX config files .  K cocoa% can use system services to determine if the sening node is part of an* cluster, and substitute the cluster alias.   --: Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Max-Planck-Institut Physik,Muenchen, : http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber                            ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:08:01 -0600-. From: David W Davies <dwd_davies2@sasktel.net>2 Subject: Re: Installing VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 34008 Message-ID: <vm39tusj8t6e22rokj8m3bc1bk0edtcdv3@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:00:16 -0500, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >David W Davies wrote:H >> Well, I tried again to boot from tape but it looks like my drive justG >> died.  The tape in use light flashes consistently and every so often G >> all three flash.  I was unable to eject the tape and had to take the H >> drive apart to do it.  Looks like the pickup lead (?) isn't doing its >> job.  >  >tL >You did mention TK50... On a TK50, seconds seems like minutes, minutes seem: >like hours, hours seem like days. You have to be patient. >tN >The unit will make some buzzing sounds initially as it loads the tape in, andN >then will just make a "sliding" sound as the tape quitly moves from one spool >to another. >1O >It take a long time for the machine to boot. At the console, if the TK50 failsjR >to load the tape, you'd get an error message within 10 minutes. (usually faster).  E Yes, I agree there.  However, I let it go for at least 30 minutes and.C the light just kept on flashing.  I didn't hear the tape moving.  IoE had booted a number of times from the same tape before and that's whys% I noticed that something was wrong.      ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:48:00 -0500y0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Installing VMS 7.3 on a MicroVAX 3400/ Message-ID: <3DD4989F.A07DB52F@vl.videotron.ca>6   David W Davies wrote:cG > Yes, I agree there.  However, I let it go for at least 30 minutes andfE > the light just kept on flashing.  I didn't hear the tape moving.  IlG > had booted a number of times from the same tape before and that's whyd% > I noticed that something was wrong.d  , Probably a dirty head inside the TK50 drive.  I Have you considered plugging in an old CD-ROM drive inside ? Or does youra machine not have SCSI ?:   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:18:46 -0500O* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systemsa2 Message-ID: <z72dncTpgY1PHUigXTWcpw@metrocast.net>  2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B5F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. Rob,  ? >>>  I personally know about very large customers that are very  impressed. <<<  F Check this external link out: [no - I don't know "exactly" what system  was used, but I have an idea ..]    G Well, 5x the previous throughput is nice and all that, but WHAT IS THIS  APPLICATION DOING???  L I mean, 12.5 FX (Financial Exchange?) transactions per second?  Even if theyL were strictly serial (no intra- or inter-transaction parallelism), you couldK do over a dozen small accesses per transaction to a single 15 Krpm disk and0J still get that level of throughput.  Assuming that transactions can by andK large be processed in parallel (even if they have no internal parallelism),oL there could easily be hundreds of disk accesses per transaction and it stillC wouldn't tax the resources of a relatively modest mid-range system.s  L So without in any way questioning the awesome capabilities of Marvel, if WSSL needs it for this application then said application sounds suspiciously likeL a great, honking pig - not only in I/O (since just having enough disks couldK handle that) but in CPU as well.  I envision something that could have beeniL based on RMS instead using an unoptimized Oracle base plus really uninspired data manipulation...   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 00:42:04 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systemss( Message-ID: <ar2c0s04oq@drn.newsguy.com>  M In article <zl$NCyYwigDt@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.orgi says...nD >>	to acknowledge by now that much of the VMS base is overseas.  TheG >	growth is in (this is my speculation... I have no personal knowledge)aH >	two key segments I would say.  SMS (not in U.S. yet, sheesh) and cell   I On my last two trips to the States, my UK tri-band phone happily sent andsO received SMS text messages. Roaming service was mainly provided by VoiceStream.pN Of course it would be using my home SMS switching centre in the UK by default.O Are you saying that the US networks still don't provide their own SMS switchings centres?  C >	phone billing.  Both of those are very intensive growth oriented eF >	segments.  Huge IO needs and very uptime centric, perfect for large  >	VMS clusters.0 >  >				Rob >iK >(1)  pre-shipping ES40 orders were large.  In hindsight , it may have been @ >a lot of JSTARS purchases (speculation, no personal knowledge). >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:55:03 -0500s0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systemsf/ Message-ID: <3DD4D278.A9C867B0@vl.videotron.ca>    Alan Greig wrote:bK > On my last two trips to the States, my UK tri-band phone happily sent and-Q > received SMS text messages. Roaming service was mainly provided by VoiceStream.tP > Of course it would be using my home SMS switching centre in the UK by default.Q > Are you saying that the US networks still don't provide their own SMS switchingp
 > centres?  K Voicestream (now called T-mobile) along with a handful others have been GSMIE from the start. The big guys, such as AT&T and Sprint went with other : technologies which didn't support SMS until very recently.  N AT&T and Cingular are now converting from their dead-end TDMA (IA136) to GSM. F So they get not only bi-directional SMS, but also GPRS etc. Those withL Qualcomm's proprietary CDMA (IS95) now have bi-directional SMS, are are justJ now starting to get the GPRS equivalent. Prior to that, only switched data& calls were available on CDMA networks.  J In Canada, FIDO had a thriving SMS usage/network, until they mucked up theI pricing and 3rd party info providerslast year, resulting in SMS's takeoff.L being aborted. The subsidiary they formed to handle SMS information servicesL was folded and there are no longer any information service providers becauseH FIDO had scared away all the 3rd party ones because it wanted to controlB everything through its own subsidiary. In other words, a big flop.  K having to pay $0.10 to send an SMS , and the recipient also paying $0.10 to N receive it is not a recipe for success in north america. Prior to SMS going toI their heads, they had a $2.00 per month package for essentially unlimiteda send/receive of SMS.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 11:05:56 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systemsc6 Message-ID: <20021115110556.27215.qmail@nym.alias.net>  D On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote: >Bill Todd wrote:c  M >> Sure - that's why Compaq killed their most profitable hardware platform 17  >> months ago.  E >But..... There may be more factors determining "profit." And there'seG >also shortterm versus longterm... And from what perspective.  Like theeF >stock-holders.  A sale of the company, could reap the stock-holders aI >huge short-term profit... Where-as, a slow, long term profitable productl >line, wouldn't.  I >And that's another reason why Curly could be seen as a "successful CEO".hG >Because he earned the stockholders a good chunk of short-term profits.c  ; >It may not be "right" it may not be "fair." It's business.   J What happened to the idea that a business should continue to exist for theJ next generation? Is it now assumed that any business will eventually ceaseD to exist and you should squeeze as much money out of it as possible?     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 06:57:32 -0500p0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems2/ Message-ID: <3DD4E118.631751A0@vl.videotron.ca>L   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:cL > What happened to the idea that a business should continue to exist for theL > next generation? Is it now assumed that any business will eventually ceaseF > to exist and you should squeeze as much money out of it as possible?  B Businesses like HP, Compaq, Dell, Gateway act as subsidiaries of aK Microsoft-Intel joint venture. Their goal is to sacrifice their own profitsiN and long term survival to help secure the profitability and long term survival of Microsoft and Intel.e  L HP's big cheeses have repeatedly said that only industry standard stuff willI survive. It is therefore safe to conclude that they are not interested inaM their own "proprietary" technologies even if those give their company an edge- over their competitors..  L Wintel companies are conditioned not to compete on features/technology. TheyH are conditioned to  sell the same stuff, and compete on distribution and% efficiency of their assembly process.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:21:06 +0000r' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy % Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systemst. Message-ID: <3DD4E6B2.8070207@nospamn.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:n > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > I >>As long as there's money to be made with VMS and/or Alpha... they'll dos >>it.... Pride be damned.s >  > N > You're assuming that the company has no strategy except for making money. HP2 > has built an alliance with Intel and Microsoft.  >    Not really. Thats cosmetic.e  9 The bit of HP that makes money is the bit that puts tonere) in pots (well little plastic containers).n  = Historically the rest of HP excluding Aligent hasn't reliably  turned a profit.   Regardsd Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:50:37 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems-2 Message-ID: <FKWdncpEg94EU0igXTWcqw@metrocast.net>  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message5 news:wvgB9.16950$QD6.1614998@news20.bellglobal.com...  > At this URL:? > http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?AID=RWT070101205659&p=3-L > the author states (with references) that EV7 has a total chip bandwidth of 44B > MB/s while McKinley (Itanium-2) only has a bandwith of 6.4 MB/s.  I Yup.  Going back to Pete Bannon's MPF presentation from last year, the L2yH cache itself has 20 GB/sec read/write bandwidth for cached accesses, theF processor can access its local main memory with 6 GB/sec read or writeE bandwidth (the slide says 12.8 GB/sec peak, though), the per-chip I/ObK interface supports 3 GB/sec, and the 4 links to adjacent processors (and ofIG course to their memory, for off-chip accesses) support 6.4 GB/sec each.e  F And, of course, the available aggregate bandwidth scales up as you add> processors (note that EV7's little brother Hammer has the sameK characteristics, just somewhat less per-processor bandwidth to start with).hH With McKinley, by contrast, while the processor chip itself supports 6.4L GB/sec of bandwidth total to the outside world, the only current HP offeringI is its zx1 4-processor chipset, which has a *total* bus bandwidth of 12.8.L GB/sec for all 4 processors to share for main memory and I/O combined.  WhenC the 'Pinnacles' chipset appears it will support more processors andSL presumably greater aggregate bandwidth, but still laughably limited comparedJ with the total bandwidth available to EV7 mesh systems (I think I rememberJ seeing a statement that EV7's unprecedented bandwidth existed so that onlyK minimal changes would be required to support the far higher-performance EV8  and possibly EV9 processors).T   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 02 06:41:38 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systemsv) Message-ID: <aAhXlcgA6tel@elias.decus.ch>-  a In article <NkJWfUOEaG1n@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:mR > In article <ar2c0s04oq@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:P >> In article <zl$NCyYwigDt@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org
 >> says...F >>>>	to acknowledge by now that much of the VMS base is overseas.  TheI >>>	growth is in (this is my speculation... I have no personal knowledge)oJ >>>	two key segments I would say.  SMS (not in U.S. yet, sheesh) and cell  >> aL >> On my last two trips to the States, my UK tri-band phone happily sent andR >> received SMS text messages. Roaming service was mainly provided by VoiceStream.Q >> Of course it would be using my home SMS switching centre in the UK by default.cR >> Are you saying that the US networks still don't provide their own SMS switching >> centres?n >>   > @ > 	That wasn't very clear.  Perhaps there is SMS going on in theB > 	U.S.  If there is, I'm not aware of anyone using it.  The folksE > 	around me have Sprint, VoiceStream, Cellular One (and at that, thec? > 	names may be different, they change names often) and none of'C > 	about 20 people I know with cellphones are using SMS.  Every usemC > 	of a cell phone (watching hundreds perhaps) as far as I can telltH > 	is with it pressed against a head.  If folks are using SMS, I suspectC > 	I would see it in their lap fiddling with their thumbs.  I don'tf6 > 	think you do SMS with it pressed against your head. >26 This is the scale of the difference, as of March 2002:  a- From http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=2936   H "The US market is very different from others. Only about 350 million SMS? messages are sent each month compared to 30 billion in Europe".   @ For over 4 years here, I have been able to look up share prices,6 railway timetables, directory enquiries etc using SMS.? Also send emails, and apparently I can now call up emails to mep? with it. The latest gimmick is the ability to buy from a drinksE( vending machine when you have no change:  1 http://www.swisscom-mobile.ch/sp/KBGAAAAA-en.htmlC  8 (sorry, yet another "American Cheese" (Javascript) site)   "How this new service works: sO All you have to do is punch in on your mobile phone the number indicated on the K vending machine, press the "send" key and select the desired article on the:O vending machine keyboard. An SMS message will then be sent to you acknowledging- your purchase.  O No special device is necessary and payments of this type can be made with every L mobile phone and with every Swisscom Mobile subscription. For the time beingM this service is available exclusively to Swisscom customers in Switzerland at<L specially labelled Coca-Cola vending machines where a 25 cent charge will be8 added to each purchase made at these vending machines. "  ) Back on topic - American junk food again!s  i -- a
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:02:29 +0100 9 From: "Robert TRAWISKI" <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>o$ Subject: Linking problem - need help. Message-ID: <ar2uoi$1u2$1@bozon.softax.com.pl>   Hi,n  A I've upgraded VMS 7.2 to version 7.2-2. After that when I link my" application I get message:   %LINK-F-OPENIN, error openinge9 DKA100:[USERS.ADAM.MRL.ASM2]LIBTHREADUTILS.EXE;2 as inputn  8 -RMS-F-CHN, assign channel system service request failed  , -SYSTEM-F-NOIOCHAN, no I/O channel available  K On OpenVMS 7.2 linking was succesfull. VMS help says that I should increaseF0 CHANNELCNT system parameter. How can I do that ?       Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:58:22 -0600m1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a. Subject: Re: Need GCC binaries for VAX VMS 5.5' Message-ID: <3DD462CE.7F17921E@fsi.net>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote:u >  > Thomas Dzubin wrote: > , > > I will download and try it out...thanks! > E >  From the OpenVMS FAQ available from http://www.openvms.compaq.com:S >  > [FAQ]sI > A mirror for work performed at the Progis company in Germany in portinga? > GCC (GNU C) to OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX is available at:e > , >      * ftp://vms.gnu.org/progis_mirror/gcc2 >      * http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_gnu.htmlx* >      * ftp://ftp.caltech.edu/pub/rankin/ > J > There are also updated header files for GCC on OpenVMS VAX that allow it2 > to work with TCP/IP Sockets and the HP C RTL at: > / >      * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/gcc281_u/u > G > The HP C compiler and other development tools are part of the OpenVMS J > Hobbyist licensing program for non-commercial users, and these and otherK > tools are available to commercial developers via the CSA partner program.y > [/FAQ] > H > The progis_mirror version is for 2.8.1 of GCC.  The most recent that ID > am aware of.  The source file for GCC.EXE appears not to match theJ > binaries, and the binaries do not match the GCC CLD file, so you need to > use foreign commands.r  G I've not looked at GCC for some time, but the last time I did (when youeD could still find it at Progis), 2.8.1 was VAX only. For Aplha, all IF could find was 2.8.0 which is known to produce bad object code in some circumstances.  F Dunno if that ever got fixed - I doubt it since the rise of OVMS-Hobby5 which makes "DEC" C available to the freeware author.e   -- s David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:25:25 -0800e$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>. Subject: RE: Need GCC binaries for VAX VMS 5.50 Message-ID: <01C28C99.B79E3940@sulfer.icius.com>  H IIRC, Progis did the GCC port to Alpha hoping to get revenue from peopleA buying their enhanced version, with Alpha optimizations. Instead, F everyone used the free version without the optimizations, so there wasH no revenue and therefore no business reason for them to maintain either.H I suppose those who were prepared to pay for a compiler paid Dec/Compaq.. Ufortunate, but IMHO understandable all round.  G I wouldn't hold your breath for an updated version after that, with theeE hobbyist license there's no incentive for anyone non-commercial to dot  it. Except maybe as a challenge.   Shanea   -----Original Message-----6 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]) Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 6:58 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come. Subject: Re: Need GCC binaries for VAX VMS 5.5     "John E. Malmberg" wrote:h >  > Thomas Dzubin wrote: > , > > I will download and try it out...thanks! > E >  From the OpenVMS FAQ available from http://www.openvms.compaq.com:  >  > [FAQ]eI > A mirror for work performed at the Progis company in Germany in porting-? > GCC (GNU C) to OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX is available at:a > , >      * ftp://vms.gnu.org/progis_mirror/gcc2 >      * http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_gnu.htmlx* >      * ftp://ftp.caltech.edu/pub/rankin/ > J > There are also updated header files for GCC on OpenVMS VAX that allow it2 > to work with TCP/IP Sockets and the HP C RTL at: > / >      * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/gcc281_u/  > G > The HP C compiler and other development tools are part of the OpenVMSxJ > Hobbyist licensing program for non-commercial users, and these and otherK > tools are available to commercial developers via the CSA partner program.  > [/FAQ] > H > The progis_mirror version is for 2.8.1 of GCC.  The most recent that ID > am aware of.  The source file for GCC.EXE appears not to match theJ > binaries, and the binaries do not match the GCC CLD file, so you need to > use foreign commands.o  G I've not looked at GCC for some time, but the last time I did (when youpD could still find it at Progis), 2.8.1 was VAX only. For Aplha, all IF could find was 2.8.0 which is known to produce bad object code in some circumstances.  F Dunno if that ever got fixed - I doubt it since the rise of OVMS-Hobby5 which makes "DEC" C available to the freeware author.b   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:53:39 -0500h0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???/ Message-ID: <3DD4619B.55AB9855@vl.videotron.ca>    Lyndon Bartels wrote:yJ > Yup.... Marvel machines... I was given a preview presentation of them...$ > They look enticing. Very enticing.    M What are the odds that those machines would NOT appear on the HP web site and)  made available only on request ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:25:51 -0800-# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>16 Subject: RE: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEGMGBAA.tom@kednos.com>.  H Well they are part of the testdrive system.  They rotate Marvels between3 VMS, Tru64 and Linux, schedule is on theire site.  C   >-----Original Message-----r8 >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]* >Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 6:54 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???r >u >g >Lyndon Bartels wrote:K >> Yup.... Marvel machines... I was given a preview presentation of them... % >> They look enticing. Very enticing.i >c >sB >What are the odds that those machines would NOT appear on the HP 
 >web site andf! >made available only on request ?e >r >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oB >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 >- ---.& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:11:49 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???K Message-ID: <rdeininger-1411022211490001@1cust218.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   8 In article <3DD4619B.55AB9855@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Lyndon Bartels wrote:K >> Yup.... Marvel machines... I was given a preview presentation of them...h% >> They look enticing. Very enticing.  >  >SN >What are the odds that those machines would NOT appear on the HP web site and! >made available only on request ?   	 Um, zero?   A The systems haven't been announced yet.  Any customer with a goodOD relationship with HP can likely sign an NDA and get pre-announcementH information.  Clearly, the VMS symposium attendees will gets lots of EV7J info (under NDA) next week.  Informal pre-orders are being assembled by HPF sales folks, ready to be entered as soon as the systems are announced.  E There's every indication that the hardware, firmware, and software is H entering the final qualification phase, pretty much on the schedule thatH has been planned for many months.  (Engineering timetables should not beB confused with executive timetables, which are much more humorous.)  J HP hasn't said anything "publicly", but there are still lots of people whoI have "private" information about the upcoming EV7 systems.  I don't think-H any of this is unusual for a new family of computer systems from a major vendor.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:34:18 -0500D0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???/ Message-ID: <3DD46B1F.2DFA6E6B@vl.videotron.ca>h   Robert Deininger wrote:eL > HP hasn't said anything "publicly", but there are still lots of people whoK > have "private" information about the upcoming EV7 systems.  I don't think0J > any of this is unusual for a new family of computer systems from a major	 > vendor.s    K What puzzles me is that it *seems* like EV7 and its systems have been readypK for a long while. And now, those extra delays are just articifical. That isrL what it *seems* like. And those appearances are credible due to HP not being> interested in Alpha, as per all the Carly speeches on may 7th.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:46:08 GMTg$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???8 Message-ID: <00A16F9E.F0737FA3@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <3DD46B1F.2DFA6E6B@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >Robert Deininger wrote:M >> HP hasn't said anything "publicly", but there are still lots of people whosL >> have "private" information about the upcoming EV7 systems.  I don't thinkK >> any of this is unusual for a new family of computer systems from a majorn
 >> vendor. >u >nL >What puzzles me is that it *seems* like EV7 and its systems have been readyL >for a long while. And now, those extra delays are just articifical. That isM >what it *seems* like. And those appearances are credible due to HP not being2? >interested in Alpha, as per all the Carly speeches on may 7th.   O The HP IT Forum road show had plenty of non-NDA EV7 info; they seemed perfectlyeO willing to talk up the systems and didn't make us sign anything to keep us fromtN quoting them.  (They did kind of hint that some European defense outfits mightL have preordered an awful lot of them and it would take a while to get them.)  K There are three days of hands-on Marvel sessions at the VMS Tech Symposium.m  L If there's a conspiracy to keep EV7 secret, it's really, really ineffectual.   -- Alanw   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:06:48 -0500l0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???/ Message-ID: <3DD472BB.324F541C@vl.videotron.ca>   % winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:uN > If there's a conspiracy to keep EV7 secret, it's really, really ineffectual.  H There have been a few unofficial reports that EV7 has been shipping to aK select few. There have been plenty of presentations to existing customers. dL That gives the impression that EV7 is ready. And there have been quite a fewV documets on the hp web site modified this week to include "ES47" and "GS1280" strings.  L So I am quite perplexed at stories that it would be delayed until early next+ year. It seems as ready as it will ever be.o  # Again, those are just "impression".    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:10:53 GMTe, From: "Ken Randell" <ken.randell@fortel.com>6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???7 Message-ID: <ht_A9.25666$6Z.21849@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>n  . What information would you consider 'private'?  I At the ETS symposium, there were several of these boxes on the trade showiH floor, and plenty of folks who were willing to talk about them.  One wasL clustered in with a GS160.  Another was open -- I think more for showing theE innards than anything else.  There was also one of the two-cpu 'largemJ desktop' (my terminalogy) running there.  The GS1280 model number was usedG freely.  More than one person said that one of the systems there on the H floor in St. Louis will be the one used for the symposium in Nashua next week.a  L Also, IIRC, the biggest secret let out of the bag was the remark by some VMSL Engineering types that the cooling fans are variable speed, so if a unit hadE more than one, perhaps they could be programmed with variable thrust.-  J An 'official' ship date of January 10, 2003 was mentioned by more than one4 person.  Perhaps all will become known on that date.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:55:49 -0500,2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???K Message-ID: <rdeininger-1511022155490001@1cust215.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>t  8 In article <3DD55858.72AD8182@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Mike Kier wrote:eK >> But keep in mind that there's a *whole* lot more to a product launch foreL >> systems designed for the VMS and Tru64 markets than just getting the baseN >> hardware running.  You've got a sales force to train around configuring the >> systems  [etc etc]  >o >eO >Where there is a will, there is a way.  HP/Compaq could have easily begun thatnI >process long ago so that everyone would be ready the monute the hardware  is ready/finalised.l  B How would they train the sales and service folks in the details ofG configurations, if the engineers hadn't finished the implementation andl testing yet?  N >They may have structured the management aspect exactly to lengten the time to? >market for EV7 to give it a delay comparable to Intel's IA64. l >rN >I am still not convinced that HP/Compaq acted in a way to bring EV7 to market >as fast as possible.o  : Get more fresh air and sunshine.  You're not making sense.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:36:43 -0500A. From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???. Message-ID: <3DD4A40B.4CBA34C1@pressenter.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > ' > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote: P > > If there's a conspiracy to keep EV7 secret, it's really, really ineffectual. > J > There have been a few unofficial reports that EV7 has been shipping to aL > select few. There have been plenty of presentations to existing customers.N > That gives the impression that EV7 is ready. And there have been quite a fewX > documets on the hp web site modified this week to include "ES47" and "GS1280" strings. > N > So I am quite perplexed at stories that it would be delayed until early next- > year. It seems as ready as it will ever be.o > % > Again, those are just "impression".R    G Pre-shipments... There are big software companies, like an Oracle, that E have probably gotten them... On a pre-release, qualification basis...e  D That's normal... isn't it? You'd want someone to shake 'em down. AndA you'd want to have independent testing information for your pressb! releases when they are announced.t  C When I was out to the EMC labs in Mass. a couple years ago, I saw a B pre-release version of a galaxy box. There were no skins on it. ItH looked pretty ... uh... non-descript. I wouldn't be surprised that thoseF who have the pre-release version of the Marvels have simular hardware.      G As far as keeping them secret... This is the first time in 4 years that-D I've been contacted and shown a pre-release info on an Alpha system.E That's encouraging to me... Considering that time saw both the ES40s,e and the GS boxes produced.       -- mG My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of myh	 employer.     H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:35:19 GMTd+ From: "Mike Kier" <michael.kier@compaq.com>m6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???1 Message-ID: <rK6B9.5$PC7.245791@news.cpqcorp.net>L  7 "Ken Randell" <ken.randell@fortel.com> wrote in messagei1 news:ht_A9.25666$6Z.21849@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...a0 > What information would you consider 'private'? >BK > At the ETS symposium, there were several of these boxes on the trade showNJ > floor, and plenty of folks who were willing to talk about them.  One wasJ > clustered in with a GS160.  Another was open -- I think more for showing thehG > innards than anything else.  There was also one of the two-cpu 'largecL > desktop' (my terminalogy) running there.  The GS1280 model number was usedI > freely.  More than one person said that one of the systems there on the J > floor in St. Louis will be the one used for the symposium in Nashua next > week.f >tJ > Also, IIRC, the biggest secret let out of the bag was the remark by some VMS J > Engineering types that the cooling fans are variable speed, so if a unit had G > more than one, perhaps they could be programmed with variable thrust.t >rL > An 'official' ship date of January 10, 2003 was mentioned by more than one6 > person.  Perhaps all will become known on that date. >t >g  K I was one of the folks giving the demo on the Marvel/GS160 (Galaxy) clusterdL at ETS (running Oracle 9i RAC w/failover).  The lead designer was also thereK at the system that was opened up and he was talking pretty freely about allsH of the important information around power, cooling, etc.  They were evenG giving away key-chains with a naked EV7 chip on it.  So there's no realuC secret about the systems from that perspective.  There is even some 0 performance information starting to show up (see3 http://www.wallstreetsystems.com/news/hpbench.htm).a  H But keep in mind that there's a *whole* lot more to a product launch forI systems designed for the VMS and Tru64 markets than just getting the base K hardware running.  You've got a sales force to train around configuring theWL systems (and this includes OEMs and distributors), a service organization toE train, a parts logistics system to put in place, there may be changese@ occurring at the firmware level (think about partitioning a meshL architecture, for instance) and a sea of documentation to create, and on andJ on.  I'm not privy to any of it, just being a field guy who volunteered toD work at ETS, but I can bet there is a hurricane of activity going on* preparing for the official product launch.   --	 Mike Kieri0 Consultant, HP Consulting & Integration Services Cincinnati, OH, USAa mike.kier@hp.com  ' "Practice random acts of VMS marketing"    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 05:57:37 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???) Message-ID: <ar2ugh02gjn@drn.newsguy.com>r  = In article <3DD4A40B.4CBA34C1@pressenter.com>, Lyndon says...n >>D >When I was out to the EMC labs in Mass. a couple years ago, I saw aC >pre-release version of a galaxy box. There were no skins on it. ItgI >looked pretty ... uh... non-descript. I wouldn't be surprised that those0G >who have the pre-release version of the Marvels have simular hardware.:  N The first test build of an EV7 GS1280 was over a year ago. I am surprised thatO it has taken around 18 months to bring it to market given that it was described  as having "no show-stoppers".   H >As far as keeping them secret... This is the first time in 4 years that  J Te first use of the term GS1280 (deliberately jokey) in comp.os.vms was 11N months ago by myself. And I'd already sat on the term for some time as we wereL asked not to mention directly that Compaq had anything above a 64 (or was itN 32?) EV7 processor box already running. The term GS1280 was used by the Compaq engineer who described it.  E >I've been contacted and shown a pre-release info on an Alpha system.aF >That's encouraging to me... Considering that time saw both the ES40s, >and the GS boxes produced.s >e >e >B >-- H >My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my
 >employer. >o >lI >The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don'th >haver >to look at the horse's butt.w   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 13:36:48 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)S+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS books : seeking adviceF= Message-ID: <8a646952.0211151336.1bde6390@posting.google.com>   i Georges A. Tomazi <gt@diapason.com> wrote in message news:<phg8tukfkjbpdhm9d8b492nu7id0ugsmpf@4ax.com>...p > Hi - > H > I'm looking for a good introductory book on OpenVMS, from newbie levelA > to intermediate/advanced covering usage and administration, for(+ > someone with some strong Unix background.  > G > I've found at least three that may fit (and available here in France)  > :n > F > * The Operating systems handbook: Unix, OpenVMS, OS/400, VM, MVS (D.# > DuCharme - McGraw-Hill GB, 1994).a > F > * Unix for OpenVMS users, second edition (P. Bourne - Digital Press, > 1998). > B > * Introduction to OpenVMS, 5th edition (L. Rice - Digital Press, > 1999). >  > Any recommendation ? >  > Thx, > 	 > Georgesn  F Some of my recommendations are old but the basics are there. There are$ new versions of some of these books.     Recommendations:  9 VMS:                 VAX/VMS Operating Systems Concepts, N7                               David Donald Miller, 1992nA VMS File System:     VMS File System Internals, Kirby McCoy, 1990oD VMS IO:              VAX I/O Subsystems: Optimizing Performance, Ken
 Bates 1991? DCL:                 VAX/VMS Writing Real DCL Programs in DCL, o;                               Paul C. Anagnostopoulos, 1989s? VMS General:         A Beginner's Guide to VAX/VMS Utilites andI Applications;                      Ronald M. Sawey & Troy T. Stokes, 1989s    Daryl Jonesy   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:32:00 +0100e6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS books : seeking advicei) Message-ID: <3DD583F0.6010909@vajhoej.dk>h   Georges A. Tomazi wrote:  H > I'm looking for a good introductory book on OpenVMS, from newbie levelA > to intermediate/advanced covering usage and administration, ford+ > someone with some strong Unix background.M  ; VAX/VMS Concepts and Facilities, Jay Shah, 1991 McGraw-Hillw  . I read it 10 years ago and was very impressed.  5 It has been sold out for almost 10 years also, so ...e   :-(    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:32:54 +0000F( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS books : seeking adviceg) Message-ID: <3DD4CD56.D2DDDFF0@127.0.0.1>    "Georges A. Tomazi" wrote: >  > Hi - > H > I'm looking for a good introductory book on OpenVMS, from newbie levelA > to intermediate/advanced covering usage and administration, forf+ > someone with some strong Unix background.n   > Any recommendation ?  B Amazingly, I believe the user documentation is pretty good. You'reD asking a tall order to go from basic user to administration, becauseH administration functions are quite presumptuous over your level of basic
 knowledge.  A You can pull down to view offline, the PDF version of most of thei, manuals, follow the documentation links from http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  @ General user, and the DCL dictionary are the ones to start with.  H System management is more tricky, because there are several manuals, andE additional ones which may or may not apply if you are using clusters.i3 Similarly there are guides for Galaxy systems, etc.o  B Have you checked out the linux howto site, there is a VMS to linux howto, which should help,r> http://mirrors.linuxmall.com/LDP/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/howtos.html VMS-to-linux-HOWTO  D Until you're familiar with the VMS concepts (opposed to the way unixF behaves) you will most likely find making sense of the way VMS behaves quite hard work.   -- l? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesu nclews at csc dot comI   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:48:09 GMTe% From: "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com>v+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS books : seeking advicer2 Message-ID: <JO7B9.12$iN7.430176@news.cpqcorp.net>   > F > Until you're familiar with the VMS concepts (opposed to the way unixH > behaves) you will most likely find making sense of the way VMS behaves > quite hard work.        For this i would recommend :  H Levy, H. M. and Jr., R. H. E. Computer Programming and Architecture: The, VAX-11. Bedford, Mass., Digital Press, 1980.  J Particularily the chapters on "The support of an Operating system" aka VMS   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:39:34 -0000 1 From: "GrahamReid" <graham@hlr89.freeserve.co.uk>p# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping / Message-ID: <ar2brf$9jm$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>k  D Marylebone and Victoria stations both have specialist cheese stores.= Very hand when getting ingredients for a raclette that night!p   Graham  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A16EB7.5DDB6601@SendSpamHere.ORG...> > In article <01C28B05.6248F100@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:I > >Going anywhere near central London, Brian? If so, swing past Liverpool K > >street station. On the way in past the Horrendous Rusty Scrap Metal Heap?K > >sculpture there's a specialist cheese shop that'll make your jaw hit thesK > >ground. Or at least, there was when I worked just up the road from therer8 > >a few years ago. Can anyone confirm it's still there? >rJ > Heathrow to Paddington via the express train and underground to VictoriaJ > and staying at the Thistle Victoria for three days.  Then a few days (5)I > around Southern England culminating my trip for three days at a Butlins I > in Minehead.  I suppose, at your recommendation, that I might make that  > cheese stop part of the tour.b >n > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >e6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:25:11 +0000a' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy-# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping . Message-ID: <3DD4E7A7.1040200@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Y > In article <01C28B03.8B6FADF0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:e >  >>You just pushed a button.s >>H >>American cheese, speaking as a Brit who discovered it late in life, is >>not food.i >  > F >    Most of the Brits who've complained to me about American cheeses,I >    complain that they're dead.  They're used to putting a cheese out topB >    warm to room temperature with the resulting improvements liveG >    cultures will make.  With an American cheese, all you get is a bite >    of drying out.- >   > You have a point though most American Cheese I have tied never/ appeared to have been alive in the first place.d  = I cannot say I have tried it much though, why would you aftero the first time ?   Regardsd Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:53:08 -0800l$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com># Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger Flippingy0 Message-ID: <01C28CE0.B603CAE0@sulfer.icius.com>  H There's a quote from the radio version of the Hitch Hiker's Guide to theD Galaxy that springs to mind here, but it could be taken as seriouslyG rude rather than funny. (HHGTTG afficionados:* Why do humans like dried  leaves in boiling water?)l  H I've been introducing Americans to european cheeses since 1997, and I'veD found most had only ever tasted the local stuff before. After tryingD some of the good stuff, they understood why I started chuckling when$ California cheese adverts are shown.  4 Advert voiceover: Great cheese comes from happy cowsE Shane's silent addendum: ...and the local ones are fraggin' suicidal.    ShaneR  > *=If you know the quote, I'm not worried about sense of humour
 deficiency...r   -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]' Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:25 AMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingf         Bob Koehler wrote:> > In article <01C28B03.8B6FADF0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: >  >>You just pushed a button.e >>H >>American cheese, speaking as a Brit who discovered it late in life, is >>not food.l >  > F >    Most of the Brits who've complained to me about American cheeses,I >    complain that they're dead.  They're used to putting a cheese out toaB >    warm to room temperature with the resulting improvements liveG >    cultures will make.  With an American cheese, all you get is a bito >    of drying out.w >   > You have a point though most American Cheese I have tied never/ appeared to have been alive in the first place.i  = I cannot say I have tried it much though, why would you afteri the first time ?   Regards  Andrew Harrison.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:58:53 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>p5 Subject: Re: parsing file name (refer to time thread) ? Message-ID: <7c82b6954b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>a  - In message <3DD4065E.451C1B98@pressenter.com>e9           Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote:    > Lyndon Bartels wrote:e > > 
 > > Hello, > >  > > Alpha VMS v7.3-1 > > DEC C v6.2. (I think)b > >  > H > OK.... I've been making progress. I've used a couple examples from the: > dsn area. My goal is to get the same information as a "$ > DIR/SIZE=ALL/DATE" > H > I've used $parse to get the full file spec. Then put $search in a loopI > to get each of the file names. Inside the loop, I was using $open(&fab) $ > to get the xabfhc and xabdat info. >  > J > But I don't like it... far too pokey. Too many I/Os... Is there a betterF > way? A way of accessing the size and date of a file without actually
 > opening it?y  I Not to my knowledge.Why do you think DIR/SIZ takes a lot longer than DIR?yD There is a flag you can set on the open which prevents the open fromL updating the expiry date, and I think prevents your opening it from blockingD anyone else subsequently opening it. Can't remember the name though.. Essentially you are opening it without a lock.  B I did all this stuff several years ago for a recursive delete/scanH procedure, which didn't try to delete the directory before the contents.E Writing that in Fortran was interesting... (The name length bytes are E unsigned - Fortran treats them as signed when they are copied into anU integer. Therefore  % if (namelen.lt.0) namelen=namelen+128s   all over the place.)     Alan   -- C
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:18:25 -0500.. From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>5 Subject: Re: parsing file name (refer to time thread)e. Message-ID: <3DD572B1.417A007F@pressenter.com>   Lyndon Bartels wrote:n >  > Hello, >  > Alpha VMS v7.3-1
 > DEC C v6.4.t    F Hello all again.  I've got a sticky problem. I've been working on this3 problem, for some time now, and I've almost got it.w  * But... When I run the app. I get an error.   Debug point  9A %RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type forh	 operationa    F So I compile, link, and run it with the debug, and nooptimize options.  D It works fine. So.. How am I supposed to figure out what's going on?   I'll include the code below. a  < I do know it's bombing on the $search statement on the loop.    1 Any thoughts?  Any help would be appreciated.....n     Thanks in advance,   Lyndon    . /* includes and initial variables left out. */        dfab   = cc$rms_fab;h     dnam   = cc$rms_nam;       ffab   = cc$rms_fab;     fnam   = cc$rms_nam;     xabfhc = cc$rms_xabfhc;n     xabdat = cc$rms_xabdat;   2     /* copy the wildcard name into the filename */     strcpy(filename,"*.*;*");n  @     dfab.fab$l_dna = filename;          /* Assign the address of filename */p?                                         /* to fab$fab$l_dna. */y@     dfab.fab$b_dns = strlen(filename);  /* Assign the length. */D     dfab.fab$l_nam = &dnam;             /* Assign the address of NAM block */  @     dnam.nam$l_esa = esa;               /* Address of the esa */;     dnam.nam$b_ess = sizeof esa;        /* length of esa */c@     dnam.nam$l_rsa = rsa;               /* Address of the rsa */<     dnam.nam$b_rss = sizeof rsa;        /* Length of rsa. */  (     /* esa  "expanded search address" */)     /* rsa  "resultant search address" */r   9     if ((status = sys$parse(&dfab,0,0)) == RMS$_NORMAL) {g<         printf("\nFrom $PARSE %.*s\n", dnam.nam$b_esl, esa);           file_counter = 0;e  0        printf("    d-ifi: %d\n",dfab.fab$w_ifi);  A         while ((status = sys$search(&dfab,0,0)) == RMS$_NORMAL) {1'             printf("Debug point  0\n");E5             printf("    d-ifi: %d\n",dfab.fab$w_ifi);c             file_counter++;-$             strcpy(outfilename,rsa);/             outfilename[dnam.nam$b_rsl] = '\0';a)             ffab.fab$l_fna = outfilename;e1             ffab.fab$b_fns = strlen(outfilename);-#             ffab.fab$l_nam = &fnam; %             ffab.fab$l_xab = &xabfhc; '             xabfhc.xab$l_nxt = &xabdat;t  *             file_status = sys$open(&ffab);+             if (file_status != RMS$_NORMAL) &                 lib$stop(file_status);  /             file_size = xabfhc.xab$l_ebk * 512;   5             printf("    file size: %d\n", file_size);r  0             date_status = sys$asctim(	&datelen,  					&date_dsc,  					&xabdat.xab$q_cdt,0);*             if (date_status != SS$_NORMAL)&                 lib$stop(date_status);  0             printf("    file date: %s\n", date);3             printf("    ifi: %d\n",ffab.fab$w_ifi);h  <             date_status = sys$numtim(	&datetime_components,  					&xabdat.xab$q_cdt);*             if (date_status != SS$_NORMAL)&                 lib$stop(date_status);  2             printf("    file month/year: %d/%d\n",2                         datetime_components.month,2                         datetime_components.year);  +             file_status = sys$close(&ffab);a+             if (file_status != RMS$_NORMAL) &                 lib$stop(file_status);  5             printf("    f-ifi: %d\n",ffab.fab$w_ifi);o5             printf("    d-ifi: %d\n",dfab.fab$w_ifi);r  
             }X	         }o     printf("Debug point  9\n");h     if (status != RMS$_NMF) {          exit(status);o     }      printf("Done.\n");1     printf("Number of files: %i\n",file_counter);m           -- oG My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my 	 employer.w    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:39:05 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>: Subject: Re: Primary home block anywhere other than LBN 1?) Message-ID: <3DD4CEC9.6977D850@127.0.0.1>y   Joe Sewell wrote:- > C > According to Kirby McCoy's VMS File System Internals book, a homerG > block can be on any of the 1+n*delta (where delta is calculated basedX > on geometry).- > F > Will VMS detect a valid home block if the one on LBN 1 of the volumeF > is not a valid home block?  (My preliminary tests indicate it won't,* > but that contradicts McCoy's statement.) > A > I ask this because I'm working on a tool that needs to detect avG > Files-11 disk vs. a "UNIX" disk.  I've had to go to reading LBN 1 andpD > doing a check, again based on McCoy's guidelines, for a valid homeD > block.  I'm wondering, though, if I need to scan 1+n*delta blocks, > just in case?t  D For an experiment a while back, I trashed the home block, using TECO3 (what else :-) and VMS found the backup home block.   D I've not consulted the fine book on my desk that you refer to, but IB know INDEXF.SYS is split in two fragments initially, both of whichD contain the home block information. I think the book talks about how6 this is done, so you can locate the second home block.   -- s? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:29:16 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG: Subject: Re: Primary home block anywhere other than LBN 1?0 Message-ID: <00A17001.2ADC8AA7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  T In article <3DD4CEC9.6977D850@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >  >  >Joe Sewell wrote: >> pD >> According to Kirby McCoy's VMS File System Internals book, a homeH >> block can be on any of the 1+n*delta (where delta is calculated based >> on geometry). >> qG >> Will VMS detect a valid home block if the one on LBN 1 of the volumenG >> is not a valid home block?  (My preliminary tests indicate it won't,m+ >> but that contradicts McCoy's statement.)r >> iB >> I ask this because I'm working on a tool that needs to detect aH >> Files-11 disk vs. a "UNIX" disk.  I've had to go to reading LBN 1 andE >> doing a check, again based on McCoy's guidelines, for a valid homehE >> block.  I'm wondering, though, if I need to scan 1+n*delta blocks,u >> just in case? >gE >For an experiment a while back, I trashed the home block, using TECO 4 >(what else :-) and VMS found the backup home block. >aE >I've not consulted the fine book on my desk that you refer to, but IoC >know INDEXF.SYS is split in two fragments initially, both of whichtE >contain the home block information. I think the book talks about howv7 >this is done, so you can locate the second home block.r >  >-- @ >Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences >nclews at csc dot com  E The alternate home block algorithm was derived to place backup copies E of the home block such that a disk corruption (loss of a head or sur-cD face) would not annihilate a home block.  Perhaps your disk geometryF is not what it appears or you've calculated alternate placement incor-E rectly.  What sort of drive are you using?  What is its reported geo- 4 metry?  What are you using for "delta" in this case?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 2   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:38:27 GMTA- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)DH Subject: Re: Problem with Hunter Goatley's ODS2 win version and MO drive1 Message-ID: <3dd568e2.109039220@news.process.com>   @ On 15 Nov 2002 09:07:31 -0800, seremil@email.it (Seremil) wrote:   >Hi all-G >I'm tryng to use old MO 512byte/sector cartridges writed on a Microvaxu< >VMS 6.2 machine using the Hunter's ODS2 reader for windows.@ >I'm tried with windows2000, windows98 but allways with the same= >result: when i mount the drive letter at the $ prompt i havee > % >"Could not find suitale ASPI device"e >" Mount failed with 8"  >g >error.sC >The MO drive works fine: i can read and write in windows formatted  >cartridgesf >The ASPI check give me all OK >eC Not all ASPIs are created equally, apparently.  The ASPI driver I'm C using (and the one another person recently tried to make this work)u  came from the link on this page:  3 http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/index.php?pg=requirese  8 If you install that ASPI driver, everything should work.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/-8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 02 07:18:23 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)2, Subject: Re: Synchronization VMS/Unix clocks) Message-ID: <3Qipe8qzPXO0@elias.decus.ch>z  g In article <553e9e4b.0211150853.a353625@posting.google.com>, carlo.pettirossi@libero.it (Carlo) writes:r > Hi again,a > C > I actually want to synch both computers at the UTC time. The unixrH > shows the local time now just cause I used ntpdate to set its clock to: > the VMS "sh time" date and time (which is the UTC time).G > Anyway I launched the advanced configuration although the VMS is busytE > (it's unfortunately always in use). It sends the local time anyway.aF > I admit I'm not an expert at all in it. I'd be thankful if you could7 > tell me a good site where to find some documentation.P >a  < Welcome to the world of VMS. The definitive site for all VMS6 documentation is at http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000  H In the VMS world, your first port of call is the official documentation, not some "site out there".   I suggest you start atL http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/tcpip51/6526/6526pro_022.html#index_x_495  3 I would also suggest that you read the VMS FAQ, at n5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.htmla  " > thanks again >    -- t
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:08:44 +0100 - From: "jlchorin" <jlchorin@wanadoo.fr.nospam>-
 Subject: teste$ Message-ID: <ar3not$69$1@wanadoo.fr>   tets   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 18:08:13 -0800+ From: ajw@ntl.sympatico.ca (Andy Woitowicz)1! Subject: Re: Turnaround artist???e< Message-ID: <3ef7fed.0211151808.7dca125a@posting.google.com>   Geez,   O I just bought 100000 shares of this sucker. Or is that myself I'm referring to?t        7 > In this piece they say a few things which must be thef- > "analysts" view of the man.  In particular:  > J >  "Capellas is credited with stabilizing Compaq before it was sold to HP" > 7 >  "If Capellas is successful, he will secure his placec >   as a turnaround artist." > N > It never seemed to me that Compaq stabilized under Capellas and it certainlyL > never "turned around".  Compaq was more like a slow motion car crash, withP > the vehicle flipping end over end, and big chunks flying off. Still, Curly didK > manage to sell Carly the wreck.  Which makes him an artist of sorts - butF > not a turnaround artist. > M > CEO of Worldcom is the perfect job for him - it's a no lose situation.  ThedH > company's such a basket case financially that if it never comes out ofM > chapter 11 nobody will blame him, and if it manages to pull itself togetheroN > (with or without his input) he'll be hailed as a miracle worker.  Either wayI > he gets paid a bundle for at least a couple more years.  My bet is thatuE > all he plans to do is spin off MCI with himself as CEO, pay off thefK > Worldcom creditors (to the extent that they will ever be paid) with stockwF > in this "new" enterprise, and let the rest of Worldcom disintegrate.P > In other words, to mix too many metaphors, he's going ride out of Dodge on the0 > cash cow while the town burns down behind him. > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu@ > Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:16:46 GMTe! From: John K <johnk50@nospam.com>lG Subject: Re: VMS machines behind DSL router---do I need PAT or just NATe2 Message-ID: <Xns92C6D84E75FF09284HDPOET@68.6.19.6>  D On 13 Nov 2002, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 1 approached the lectern and spoke for all to hear 13 news:01KOTBRAO1YG9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com:p  G >> I don't think a typical TELNET, FTP, HTML, etc. server would care at?E >> all that you are creating multiple connections from a single host.A > J > Of course not.  I do it all the time (even from/to the same accounts on H > both client and target systems) when no NAT/PAT is involved.  Whether J > it's a real system or a router making multiple connections is something G > the server shouldn't (and maybe can't) care about.  Of course, there AI > might be a limit on the number of connections, but that is a different e > issue. >    Helbig,    Do yourself a favor...  > Go get yourself a LinkSys BEFSR41 Router, forget the terminal H access, configure the thing with a web browser and be done with it.  It G supports up to 253 hosts (More if you have multiple networks) and will 0J forward any inbound connection requests to internal hosts inside your LAN 7 on a per port basis, mapped to a host of your chosing. h   Takes 10 minutes - if that.i  K I have a "fair" number of machines lurking behind one; three of the "fair" oI are AXP. 2 - VMS 1 - Alpha/NT. The rest are a mixture of MS, BSD, Novell tE and Linux.  ALL can access the Internet simultaneously, or any other wK external network connected via the Internet using telnet, ftp, VPN etc...  aJ I also have a Cisco 25XX router sitting behind it running some tunnels to I other networks .  Works perfectly.  No performance issues, no connection n> issues other than DSL circuit outages.  PacBell / SBC sucks.    I One caveat.  It only exports one PPTP VPN session at a time, although it lE seems that it will handle multiple inbound PPTP VPN sessions with no V problem.  J Wasn't my decision to shoot our old reliable F/R, but I have to admit the G DSL connection is way faster.  DSL hasn't proven to be as robust as we fI have had a few "incidents".  One or two more outages near months end and n# DSL is probably going to get fired.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:04:12 -050042 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)> Subject: Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor)K Message-ID: <rdeininger-1511022204120001@1cust215.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>t  
 In articleI <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B62@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,o( "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:   >Mark, > F >As a fyi - Here is what the latest Alpha ES45 1.25Mhz system producesD >when a $show cpu/full is entered: (dual CPU system). Hopefully, the1 >formatting does not get munged with email, but -r  E Kerry, you're sending with stinkware from the Gates of Hell.  This isi microslop's idea of plain text:u  , >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Content-Type: text/plain;! >              charset="us-ascii"y >Mime-Version: 1.0  I As a result, your post had no chance of passing unmolested.  (It containss8 dollar signs, the escape character in quoted-printable.)  G 100 quatloos to anyone who can explain a reliable way to make MicrosoftoJ Outhouse really send plain, ascii text messages.  Outhouse Express doesn't count...     >I >$ sho sys/noprocn > B >OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node XXXXX  14-NOV-2002 17:25:39.74  Uptime  0	 >18:50:44  >  >$ sho cpu /full >n) >System: XXXXX, AlphaServer ES45 Model 2B- >-/ >  SMP execlet   =3D 3 : Enabled : Streamlined.6 >  Config tree   =3D Version 66 >  Primary CPU   =3D 0                             =20> >  HWRPB CPUs    =3D 4                                     =20> >  Page Size     =3D 8192                                  =206 >  Revision Code =3D                               =20! >  Serial Number =3D 4240KSVZA001a >  Default CPU Capabilities: >        System: QUORUM RUN=20  >  Default Process Capabilities: >        System: QUORUM RUN=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:41:46 -0500e& From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>J Subject: Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at  Montagar?< Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021115223807.03c8e678@pop.rcn.com>  5 At 05:46 PM 11/15/2002 -0600, news.charter.net wrote:dK >This is VERY interesting; the "OpenVMS 7.3 new features and benefits" pagehM >(URL: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/v73features.html ) DEFINITELYlA >mentions the VAX. The corresponding page for OpenVMS 7.3-1 (URL:sJ >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/v731features.html) does not. CanM >someone point me at a roadmap showing HP's plans for OpenVMS VAX? Or is thisa >IT?  - If you look at the newest OpenVMS Roadmap on  G <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/> you will see VAX mentioned on page 11 rI under "OpenVMS V8.2 (Topaz)" for ship in 2004.  That is the same release u8 where the IA port is supposed to be ready for all users.   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:46:22 -0600t3 From: "news.charter.net" <bamalupieman@charter.net> I Subject: Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at Montagar?n/ Message-ID: <utb2n0ae2dp7c9@corp.supernews.com>s  J This is VERY interesting; the "OpenVMS 7.3 new features and benefits" pageL (URL: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/v73features.html ) DEFINITELY@ mentions the VAX. The corresponding page for OpenVMS 7.3-1 (URL:I http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/v731features.html) does not. Can L someone point me at a roadmap showing HP's plans for OpenVMS VAX? Or is this IT?E   Thanks,) Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT netcJ ion 7.3 new features & benefitsOpenVMS version 7.3 new features & benefits: "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:YWmFgSkRo1nH@eisner.encompasserve.org...tJ > In article <r8t4tug3a900d271ibr2470ntt3lpbkt2k@4ax.com>, Jamie Stallwood7 <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net> writes: 0 > > The site hasn't been updated for months now? > ( > There is no VAX V7.3-1 release of VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:30:10 +0000 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>   Subject: [OT] HP has big cheeses/ Message-ID: <ut9q6hm7tktree@corp.supernews.com>s   JF Mezei wrote:    > [...snip...]D > HP's big cheeses have repeatedly said that only industry standard  > stuff will survive.i    A Aha, JF, I *knew* we'd come full circle and get back to the topicrA of cheeses :-)  Do you think that HP's big cheeses are all of thea American cheese variety ??  	 Roy Omonde Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:55:05 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>P$ Subject: Re: [OT] HP has big cheesesG Message-ID: <Z07B9.73579$oRV.9931@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>0  : "Roy Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message) news:ut9q6hm7tktree@corp.supernews.com...s > JF Mezei wrote:e >p > > [...snip...]E > > HP's big cheeses have repeatedly said that only industry standardc > > stuff will survive.v >  >iC > Aha, JF, I *knew* we'd come full circle and get back to the topic C > of cheeses :-)  Do you think that HP's big cheeses are all of the  > American cheese variety ??  E Yes. They are mass-market cheeses - featureless and bland, lacking in  distinction.   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 02 05:58:06 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)a$ Subject: Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses) Message-ID: <IsvUC5LGHfeF@elias.decus.ch>o  _ In article <ut9q6hm7tktree@corp.supernews.com>, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:  > JF Mezei wrote:s >  >> [...snip...] E >> HP's big cheeses have repeatedly said that only industry standard o >> stuff will survive. >  > C > Aha, JF, I *knew* we'd come full circle and get back to the topic C > of cheeses :-)  Do you think that HP's big cheeses are all of thee > American cheese variety ?? >   @ The jury is still out on HP for me, but all the talk we had once@ upon a Compaq time about "simplifying customer choice" reeked of the American Cheese syndrome.    A In the course of this discussion I have come across many websites D which simply don't work without Javascript. It is getting as endemic9 as spam. I hereby christen these "American Cheese" sites.p   The SPAM museum:K http://media.hormel.com/anm/templates/spam_museum.asp?articleid=8&zoneid=114  - (Oops, sorry, another "American Cheese" site)> -- e
 Paul Sture Switzerlandb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:31:54 +0000x- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>y$ Subject: Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses/ Message-ID: <uta1aq66hpk68f@corp.supernews.com>    John Smith wrote:s   > [...snip...] >eE > >>HP's big cheeses have repeatedly said that only industry standardu > >>stuff will survive.n > >n > >mD > >Aha, JF, I *knew* we'd come full circle and get back to the topicD > >of cheeses :-)  Do you think that HP's big cheeses are all of the > >American cheese variety ??f >t >eG > Yes. They are mass-market cheeses - featureless and bland, lacking ino > distinction.  ? Yep, I was aware of that.  Mind you, some of them do sound likem European cheeses:t  ) Fiorina (soft, older cheese with a bite),28 Marcello (mild cheese suitable for those with no teeth),= Stallard (Stahlhardt in the original German, a cheese so hardnE    that it's impossible to eat, and even more impossible to stomach),rC Winkler (another German cheese designed to "eviscerate, eviscerate,     eviscerate")   : and then there are the good cheeses, many of which seem to be Germanic in origin:  ? Hoffman (a very pleasant cheese, with much hope for the future)r@ Kleinsorge (a good cheese at heart, with very "little worry" :-)= Goldstein (the TECO cheese, very suitable as a Backup cheese)3C Skonetski (a bubbly Polish cheese, very popular among ambassadorialS	    types)R  > And how about some of the other cheeses found in comp.os.vms ?  B Harrison (a cheese with a chip-on-its-shoulder, which often leaves    a bitter taste)E Mezei (a cross between French and German cheeses, energetic, suitable     for bicyclists)     Any more suggestions ?  	 Roy Omondl Blue Bubble Cheese Factory Ltd.c  < (Blue Bubble Cheese ?  Now there's something that would have potential in the USofA :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:04:43 GMT + From: "Mike Kier" <michael.kier@compaq.com>n$ Subject: Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses2 Message-ID: <f28B9.14$BM7.406633@news.cpqcorp.net>   > John Smith wrote:i >n > > [...snip...] > >rG > > >>HP's big cheeses have repeatedly said that only industry standardi > > >>stuff will survive.  > > >e > > >aF > > >Aha, JF, I *knew* we'd come full circle and get back to the topicF > > >of cheeses :-)  Do you think that HP's big cheeses are all of the > > >American cheese variety ??  > >  > > I > > Yes. They are mass-market cheeses - featureless and bland, lacking ini > > distinction. >nA > Yep, I was aware of that.  Mind you, some of them do sound likeo > European cheeses:  >X+ > Fiorina (soft, older cheese with a bite), : > Marcello (mild cheese suitable for those with no teeth),? > Stallard (Stahlhardt in the original German, a cheese so hardpG >    that it's impossible to eat, and even more impossible to stomach), E > Winkler (another German cheese designed to "eviscerate, eviscerate,e >    eviscerate")  >e< > and then there are the good cheeses, many of which seem to > be Germanic in origin: >=A > Hoffman (a very pleasant cheese, with much hope for the future)oB > Kleinsorge (a good cheese at heart, with very "little worry" :-)? > Goldstein (the TECO cheese, very suitable as a Backup cheese) E > Skonetski (a bubbly Polish cheese, very popular among ambassadorial  >    types)i >t@ > And how about some of the other cheeses found in comp.os.vms ? > D > Harrison (a cheese with a chip-on-its-shoulder, which often leaves >    a bitter taste)G > Mezei (a cross between French and German cheeses, energetic, suitable- >    for bicyclists) >- >- > Any more suggestions ? >1 > Roy Omond:! > Blue Bubble Cheese Factory Ltd.s >h> > (Blue Bubble Cheese ?  Now there's something that would have > potential in the USofA :-)  K Well, there's Kilgallen... it is rumored to be a well-dressed, mildly aged,oF New England cheese of Celtic heritage, but it is kept under such tight' security that no one has ever found it.    --	 Mike Kieri0 Consultant, HP Consulting & Integration Services Cincinnati, OH, USA, mike.kier@hp.com  ' "Practice random acts of VMS marketing"i   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2002 06:47:04 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>u$ Subject: Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses) Message-ID: <ar31d802ut7@drn.newsguy.com>e  ; In article <ut9q6hm7tktree@corp.supernews.com>, Roy says...  >k >>B >Aha, JF, I *knew* we'd come full circle and get back to the topicB >of cheeses :-)  Do you think that HP's big cheeses are all of the >American cheese variety ??   N They are all busy working on the secret Microsoft Active Cheese product. Which8 will immediately be defined as Industry Standard Cheese.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:56:26 -0800,% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>n$ Subject: Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses( Message-ID: <3DD5EC1A.6010906@rdrop.com>   Alan Greig wrote:S>  > In article <ut9q6hm7tktree@corp.supernews.com>, Roy says...  >E  >> Aha, JF, I *knew* we'd come full circle and get back to the topicdB  >>  of cheeses :-)  Do you think that HP's big cheeses are all of"  >> the American cheese variety ??  >B  > They are all busy working on the secret Microsoft Active CheeseB  > product. Which will immediately be defined as Industry Standard
  > Cheese.  D At not infrequent intervals, it will emit a toxic bluish substance-  the Blue Cheese Of Death(tm).    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.633 ************************