1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 17 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 635       Contents:' Re: backup: /since input file qualifier % Re: Capellas was offered job by Gates  Carly reinvents HP yet again' Re: EVA and SPC and storage competition ! Re: Going for authorised reseller ! Re: Going for authorised reseller ! Re: Going for authorised reseller  Re: HP Advocacy Site Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Misuse of SYSPRV in VMS , Re: parsing file name (refer to time thread) RE: Patch installation0 Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway.0 Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway.0 Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway.	 VMS 7.3-1 
 Re: VMS 7.3-1 A Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at  Montagar? A Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at  Montagar?  Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses  Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2002 12:14:50 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)0 Subject: Re: backup: /since input file qualifier= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0211161214.2f5b9219@posting.google.com>   r karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) wrote in message news:<15NOV02.18280670@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>...G > In a previous article, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  > ->>  [snip]  > ->I > ->   IIRC if the directory date updates, all files in it will be backed H > ->   up.  I still don't know the rules for when the directory modifiedL > ->   date gets updated (it's not when a directory entry is added/removed). > H > I just discovered this behavior is different in VMS 7.3 and beyond. InE > fact, using /NOINCREMENTAL with /SINCE=BACKUP (though not the topic ) > discussed in this thread) will produce:  > D >   %BACKUP-I-INVQUAL, qualifier /NOINCREMENTAL is ignored with the  >   /SINCE=BACKUP operation  >  > In DSNlink article:  > M >   [OpenVMS] V7.3 BACKUP/NOINCREMENTAL/SINCE=BACKUP Returns BACKUP-I-INVQUAL  >  > it states: > I >   The entire directory is no longer saved when the revision date on the E >   directory changes.  The XQP file system was changed to modify the F >   revision date of the directory more often.   This caused BACKUP toE >   save the entire directory during incremental save operations more I >   frequently.  This increased the time it took to do incremental BACKUP I >   and increased the size of the saveset.  To account for this BACKUP no G >   longer will save the entire directory tree for directories that are J >   modified.  BACKUP will now only save the entire directory tree for NEW >   or RENAMED directories.   C Cool! ([Nitpick alert!] It would have been better stated as: BACKUP B will now save the entire directory tree *only* for NEW and RENAMED
 directories.)    G > Interestinly, I didn't see this mentioned in the release notes or new  > features manuals.   F I checked the on-Web 7.3* docs and it's not mentioned there either, at< least not in the System Man. Utilities manuals under BACKUP.  D > While this is an improvement I'd still like a way to revert to the9 > Pre-version 6.2 behavior (/noincremental prior to 7.3).   F I guess for that you'll have to use /NOINCR/SINCE=<date>, or does that= too fail? And if it does, then what use is there for /NOINCR?    A > I'm really curious to know exactly how backup determines that a F > directory is NEW or RENAMED without using the dates on the directoryE > file. I've changed the revision/creation dates of renamed directory F > files trying to fool it into not saving the entire directory with noD > success. How else can backup "know" a directory is NEW or RENAMED?  A Well, the quote you posted above doesn't say that they don't make B *any* use of dates. It just says (in regards to dates) that BACKUPE will not use the directory's modification date being more recent than E its backup date as the criterion for saving the entire tree. Now, NEW C directories are easy to detect by checking their creation dates. As C for RENAMED directories, that's another story. Either there's a new D hidden date field or perhaps they now make use of [000000]BACKUP.SYSF somehow to accomplish this (by logging all renamed directories, e.g.).* I, too, would like to know how it is done.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:37:44 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> . Subject: Re: Capellas was offered job by Gates' Message-ID: <3DD70F08.9169A1ED@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Alan Greig wrote: G > > According to the New York Times, Microsoft offered to make Capellas 3 > > No.3, adopting the title of President and COO."  > > B > > Hey maybe he'll just strip down WorldCom first then merge with > > Microsoft. > M > No, I think I found out what the strategy is. Capellas will "visit" as CEO, M > all major remaining VMS customers, force the dumping of VMS and replacement P > with Windows crap, then leave as the company crumbles and go onto the next VMS; > customer. Once VMS is dead, he gets his job at Microsoft.  >  > :-)   G Strange you hould say that. The wife and I just watched the first Harry D Potter movie on cable. The plot you suggests almost sounds like evil+ wizardry. Strangely appropriate, I think...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 02:35:46 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Carly reinvents HP yet again 2 Message-ID: <tJudnZh9GNvSaEigXTWc3g@metrocast.net>  J I really do believe I remember when C&C were touting the merger as the wayL to create an entity that could meet IBM head-on on its own terms (except, ofJ course, for offering proprietary systems with credible life expectancies). But I must have been mistaken:  2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/28110.html   ...   K She finished by saying that some people had mistakenly compared her company 0 with HP's systems and consulting competitor IBM.  G "We are not trying to emulate IBM. You can look at IBM, and our product J portfolios are different in many areas. They are doubling down in areas weK haven't. In services they bought PriceWaterhouseCoopers, where we prefer to J partner," Fiorina said, overlooking HP's own failed attempt to buy PCW for $20bn in November 2000.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 02:16:08 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: EVA and SPC and storage competition2 Message-ID: <zrecnb4acp4pbUigXTWc3g@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:I4VlrpOWitaV@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...   . > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:; > >"Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message / > news:$MIQ0bTlS4QE@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > >> In article <_H2dnXW5-aIbmkmgXTWcqA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" # > ><billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  >  > ...  > J > >> > Why not just use Win2K/XP's bundled volume manager (which is indeed > >based on K > >> > Veritas code, but costs nothing extra)?  It should spread databases,  > >file ; > >> > systems, or whatever across multiple LUNs just fine.  > >> > > >>D > >> The answer to that is you can't failover disks if you are using6 > >> the Win2000 Volume Manager to create "RAID" sets. > > D > >Well, I guess I could believe that you couldn't do it dynamically	 (possibly E > >because Veritas wanted you to have to buy the full version), but I  suspect K > >that you could do so as long as you were willing to boot the server that  was : > >taking over (but that wouldn't be very transparent...). > >  > J >         Forgive me for working this angle but I claim there is substanceI >         here... suggesting a reboot is very easy to refute from a sales K >         angle.  Many of us have more than 1 datacenter even if the second F >         data center is quite small.  To suggest a trip to the remoteI >         data center (even if nearby) is a good opening for highlighting K >         "reboot for failover" weakness.  Secondly, (and more practically) I >         the server may be in the same room and you aren't there.  Maybe  veryL >         good documentation makes up for this so that Operations can rebootG >         and check failover server.  But many systems people don't let ? >         Operations come close to consoles for sundry reasons.   F There's no reason that the reboot can't be automated:  it's only thereI because of the claimed lack of dynamic fail-over facilities in Win2K/XP's  bundled LVM.   > J >         Its bad enough fallover clusters have actually hijacked the termG >         cluster.  But fallover reboot clusters is good for hysterical  >         laughter.   F Not really.  While it's certainly nice to resume operation in seconds,G resuming in a couple of minutes is adequate for most uses as long as it  happens rarely.    >  >  > >... > > B > >> As all this functionality goes into storage hardware/softwareG > >> (snaps, virtualization, remote snaps/bcvs and whatever else is hot D > >> technology) a Veritas is even less attractive as you are paying? > >> for something that exists at the storage level and becomes * > >> highly redundant at the system level. > > J > >Depends on how things are getting glued together.  When the storage box runsK > >out of scalability and you start gluing them together at a higher level,  the . > >Veritas-level features become useful again. > >  > J >         The higher level will *still* be storage, not bolt-on Veritas orI >         similar "fixes" for lack of storage scalability - my opinion of  >         course.  > & >         I shot this out here before. >  > L http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=X0YkNMvpPm1R%40eisner.encompasserve.org &oe= > UTF-8&output=gplain  >  > J > Although it isn't being shipped yet, Palo Alto, CA-based Compaq also has anJ > innovative implementation of storage virtualization called the VersaStorE > Executor. VersaStor uses intelligent agent technology to virtualize  storage.J > The agent, called a vector, resides in the host. The mapping informationH > permanently resides in the VersaStor Executor. When the virtualization process E > starts, mapping information is uploaded into the vector, where it's  cached. E > Virtualization commands are sent to the vector in the host from the 	 VersaStor L > Executor software that resides in the appliance. Then, the vector executes the  > commands.   K Yup - having intelligence in the host is definitely the right way to do it. K But VersaStor Executor is just replacing the Veritas host intelligence with D StorageWorks host intelligence - and while it adds some value in itsH virtualization capabilities, it also subtracts value by (presumably) not> supporting heterogeneous storage in the manner that VxVM does.  I In any event, if the software is executing in the host at the disk-driver K level it really doesn't matter whether it has Veritas' or cHumPaq's name on > it:  it's still the same function executing in the same place.   > G >         There is more in the link.  The way it works is more than one F >         box contains the storage.  It appears the back-end won't run@ >         out of scalability (or we are heading that direction). >  > >>I > >> Maybe Win2000 gets its act together and can failover host based RAID ) > >> making even Dell storage attractive.  > >>? > >> Killer hot storage technology to drive a stake in Veritas?  >  >    [Differential LBN backups]  >  > > F > >Until file-level technology drives a stake into block-level storage (whichI > >it certainly should but shows little sign of doing unless I get off my  ass G > >and do it), volume-manager-level products will likely remain useful.  > >  > 0 >         Tell us where or how this will happen. > H >         If applications work with blocks and those blocks keep gettingH >         faster (or *at worst* have 8 ms random access), what advantage will$ >         file-level technology add?  K 1.  Hosts need not be robust (even if they share storage with other hosts), K because the storage system understands how to recover from host failures at L the file-operation (even record-operation or generalized transaction, if you choose) level.  E 2.  Hosts need not trust each other when sharing storage, because the F storage system can handle file-level authentication/authorization on aJ per-request basis (as long as some kind of unforgeable, verifiable user idC exists, but things like Active Directory provide such facilities to  distributed environments).  K 3.  Hosts need not interact with each other, because the storage system can L handle bookkeeping operations such as space management and meta-data updatesJ (often more efficiently than cooperating hosts could - especially when theJ storage system is centralized but the clients access it over a much slower WAN or even the Internet).  I 4.  Both redundancy (e.g., RAID level and/or required disaster tolerance) H and quality of service can be specified (with appropriate privilege) andJ materialized by the storage system on a per-file basis, rather than havingL to vector files to specific storage areas which have to be set up to provide0 all the different flavors that users might want.  J These all make it far easier to share data among heterogeneous hosts (veryL much like file servers do today, in fact, but with extensions that allow theG 'file server' to be a transparently-expandible set of storage servers). K They also allow the storage system to handle snapshots (and backup, if they J don't supplant it) without host involvement, save for the kind of 'quiesceH application' interface that several existing snapshot mechanisms alreadyE provide  Some host-resident intelligence is still desirable to handle G caching and locking at the host (one could conceive of this part of the L host/server interface being standardized to allow heterogeneous servers) andD also to vector requests directly to the applicable servers (like theI VersaStor Executor mechanism you mention above - and this, in combination L with the activities required for dynamic expansion of the server complement,* is harder to imagine becoming a standard).  I And if you really insist on dealing with storage at the block level, just F define a one-file file system and treat that file like a disk:  it canL coexist with the other file systems in the shared 'storage cloud' just fine.  H IBM's Storage Tank project is the closest I know of to a system like theH above, but IIRC it uses a core cluster for cache and metadata managementI rather than fully distributing those functions throughout the servers and G using host-resident vectors for targeting (unless I'm confusing it with  another parallel IBM effort).    - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 2002 14:35:07 GMT7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) * Subject: Re: Going for authorised reseller! Message-ID: <KgmXNfGiWCxM@rabbit>     Where should we send the e-mail?  P In article <utd0m5ivtu3o07@news.supernews.com>, "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> writes: > Hi all > J > We are going to contact Compaq/HP next week about becoming an authorised
 > partner. > E > We really would appreciate any comments or suggestions about Island : > Computers US Corp that could help us in the application.K > Comments in the way of POSTS to this NG would be good or direct emails as  > testimonials. J > No rude ones though please - if you would like to comment please keep it > clean  >  > Thanks >  > -- > Island Computers US Corp.  > 2700 Gregory St, Ste 180 > Savannah GA 31404, USA > Tel: (00) 1 912 447 662  > Fax: (00) 1 912 201 0096 > sales@hpaq.net > www.islandco.com >  >  --   Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"  "Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:00:28 GMT & From: Some DBA <dba@spacespamlots.com>* Subject: Re: Going for authorised reseller1 Message-ID: <3DD7141B.8626B727@spacespamlots.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > ICUSC wrote:L > > We are going to contact Compaq/HP next week about becoming an authorised > > partner. > > > What advantage you do not already have would this give you ? > P > Would it remove any freedom you currently have to market your wares ? Would HP! > want to control what you sell ?  > J > Seems that you currently fill a niche that HP doesn't want filled, so myO > concern is that with HP having a leash on your neck, you may not have such an S > easy time selling the stuff customers want, but HP doesn't want customers to have   C HP in no way would try to restrict what wares an individual company  chooses to sell.  < I am a member of the PartnerOne program and have not had any? restrictions applied to my company that would restrict sales or 
 offerings.   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:27:40 -0500  From: "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net>* Subject: Re: Going for authorised reseller/ Message-ID: <ute6hdbm82eta6@news.supernews.com>   ) Please send mail to custserv@islandco.com   3 And include your name (email address not necessary)    Thanks    D "Bradford J. Hamilton" <sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm> wrote in message news:KgmXNfGiWCxM@rabbit... " > Where should we send the e-mail? > J > In article <utd0m5ivtu3o07@news.supernews.com>, "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> writes: 
 > > Hi all > > L > > We are going to contact Compaq/HP next week about becoming an authorised > > partner. > > G > > We really would appreciate any comments or suggestions about Island < > > Computers US Corp that could help us in the application.J > > Comments in the way of POSTS to this NG would be good or direct emails as > > testimonials. L > > No rude ones though please - if you would like to comment please keep it	 > > clean  > > 
 > > Thanks > >  > > -- > > Island Computers US Corp.  > > 2700 Gregory St, Ste 180 > > Savannah GA 31404, USA > > Tel: (00) 1 912 447 662  > > Fax: (00) 1 912 201 0096 > > sales@hpaq.net > > www.islandco.com > >  > >  > -- > Bradford J. Hamilton' > braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom (home) ' > sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm (work)  > = > "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"  > "Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:34:19 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: HP Advocacy Site 2 Message-ID: <kYWcnX_G8tZKRUigXTWc3w@metrocast.net>  ? "Jan C. Vorbrggen" <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote in message % news:3DD4F3FA.99238614@mediasec.de... H > > Well, using JDBC is going to be a lot *less* clumsy and awkward than& > > calling the RMS services directly. > 8 > An SQL SELECT statement is less clumsy and akward that > ! > READ (10, KEYGE = "Joe") Record  >  > ?  >  > > If that weren't true, the G > > relational database would not have been invented some 30+ years ago  > C > I don't think that played a large role in the development of SQL.   E Actually, my impression is that this was the *primary* reason for the J emergence of relational databases (and hence SQL, though of course SQL canL be - sort of - applied to other forms of databases as well).  The relationalJ algebra was thought to be both more easily usable than navigational accessG by mere mortals and better suited to automated optimization (due to its H isolation of access algorithm from request form):  no one with any sense thought it would be *faster*.     ACID K > and support of joins are likely more prominent in the list of priorities.   L I wouldn't say that ACID (i.e., transactions) is any more related to SQL andJ relational databases than to other forms of data management:  transactionsI were certainly used in other areas before the first commercial relational K databases appeared (TRAX-11 comes to mind, repress it though I will, and of K course IBM understood transactional processing *very* well).  As for joins, J they're more an effect of SQL (and relational normalization) than any kindL of cause:  if you don't require normalization (e.g., use a network or objectI database), the fields and/or records can typically be grouped as you want G them in the first place and most join activity is unnecessary (and what J required join-like activity remains can easily be handled navigationally).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:45:41 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems / Message-ID: <3DD5E993.95074F99@vl.videotron.ca>    Paul Sture wrote: O > this service is available exclusively to Swisscom customers in Switzerland at N > specially labelled Coca-Cola vending machines where a 25 cent charge will be: > added to each purchase made at these vending machines. "  M We *had* banking by SMS in canada some time ago. It tanked. Why ? because you L could do more by dialing the banks's 800 telephone number and punch about asJ many keystrokes though their automated system, compared to their fancy SMSI based applications. But more importantly, the banks charged you $0.25 per L transaction, whereas on the 800 number you could do as much as you wanted onW your plan minutes (eg: no extra charge if you were within your monthly bank of minutes)   K The mobile phone companies in north america are torn between the success of L SMS in the rest of the world, and a culture here that doesn't quite tolerate? pay-per-use. As soon as the companies try the european style of $ billing-per-use, their efforts fail.  K In Canada, prior to Fido removing their $2.00/per month SMS  package, there K were a few providers of SMS-based services for free, including an email-SSM M gateway, and information services such as stock quotes, weather and of course N ring-tones. FIDO saw potential to make money out of those, cancelled the $2.00M option, anc charged $0.10 per SMS sent and received. The 3rd party "freeware" K providers (volunteers) were put out of business, and FIDO thinking it would G have the market all to itself, setup its own subsidiary to handle these L services. The subsidiary was wound down less than a year after it was formed? because the market vanished even though they had advertised it.   N A lot of those services are "cute" but make no business sense for the customer) when there are such high per-use charges.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:25:42 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) % Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems 7 Message-ID: <aTEB9.1125$8D.79914@twister.austin.rr.com>   " John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote: : @ : The whole crux of this is that personal avarice trumps ethics. : G : In order to have personal integrity in something like this, you deny  F : your capital to the companies that engage in such behavior, but you 2 : won't get rich when Capellas-types sell you out. : I : Not meaning to tell you what to do with your money, nor soliciting your I : business (there, that keeps me out of hot water with the SEC), but you  E : might want to take a look at US Treasury bonds - the ones that are  G : inflation indexed. Seems like a safe bet if the US gets the military- 9 : industrial complex pumped up again. Or tax-free muni's.  :   C Anyone chosing to invest in the markets shouldn't expect much from  * the Sarbanes-Oxley Corporate Reform Act...  5    http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/21/news/sec/index.htm $    The toothless SEC - Oct. 21, 2002     "Pulling the SEC's teeth  G    The White House wants to cut the agency's funding increase; will the     watchdog have any bite left?        October 21, 2002: 3:47 PM EDT+    By Mark Gongloff, CNN/Money Staff Writer      B    NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Three months after President Bush signed?    legislation to boost funding for the Securities and Exchange H    Commission, he's trying to cut that proposed budget increase, raising=    doubts about the SEC's ability to protect U.S. investors.       H    The Sarbanes-Oxley corporate reform act, pushed through Congress thisE    summer in response to a rash of corporate scandals at Enron Corp., F    WorldCom Group and more, proposed a $776 million budget in 2003 forH    the SEC, the government agency charged with maintaining the integrity    of the securities markets.      F    The 77-percent budget increase was seen as critical to allowing theG    SEC to hire enough workers to enforce securities laws, to update the F    agency's technology, and to fund a new board that would oversee the)    private corporate accounting industry.      H    But amidst Congressional wrangling about the federal budget for 2003,F    President Bush has asked Congress to give the SEC just $568 millionH    next year, significantly less than authorized under Sarbanes-Oxley, a    law Bush signed July 30..."     2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 02:04:53 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  Subject: Misuse of SYSPRV in VMS/ Message-ID: <3DD5EE13.9341DF46@vl.videotron.ca>   X SYSPRV essentially gets you access to any/all files. So it is a very powerful privilege.  N However, it is used for many other purposes. For instance, the MAIL$ routines,M you need SYSPRV to change the "FROM" line of a message you are sending. And I Q believe that TCPIP services , you need SYSPRV to create a socket on a known port.   L Shouldn't the VMS folks have kept SYSPRV solely for file accces, and made itK such that another privilege would be required for non-file accesses such as  the two examples above ?  N I would feel much mroe comfortable with an application having a privilege suchJ as "TELECOM" which grants it what is needed to do without jeoperdizing theN file system. Similarly, to create a DECNET object, an application needs SYSNAMG which si also quite dangerous. (or are decnet object names stored in an  obscure logical name table ?)    Any comments ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:28:47 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)5 Subject: Re: parsing file name (refer to time thread) ; Message-ID: <3dd60fcf.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   / Lyndon Bartels (lbartels@pressenter.com) wrote:  > Lyndon Bartels wrote: , > But... When I run the app. I get an error. >  > Debug point  9C > %RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for  > operation  > H > So I compile, link, and run it with the debug, and nooptimize options.F > It works fine. So.. How am I supposed to figure out what's going on?  C I'm generally using  #define __NEW_STARLET 1  to get prototypes for F VMS system routines. It is a bit of a PITA with quad datatypes, but itH helps to get the parameters right. But that's probably not your problem.  & >             strcpy(outfilename,rsa);  6 You can't assume rsa to be null-terminated. Better use  ,   strncpy(outfilename, rsa, dnam.nam$b_rsl);  2 >             date_status = sys$asctim(	&datelen,  > 					&date_dsc,  > 					&xabdat.xab$q_cdt,0);  7 Here, you don't use datelen to terminate date properly:      date[datelen] = '\0';    cu,    Martin --  A                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer . Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 5 Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:54:28 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: Patch installation T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B69@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Dale,   H >>> Since then, I do not install the patches until I am ready to perform the reboot.<<<  E As a suggestion, assuming applications are cluster aware, and using a B DNS load balancing scheme (TCPIP Service, TCPware and Multinet allF support this) there is no need to do this if one follows the process I( outlined in my last post to this thread.  5 1. Disable logins on server in cluster to be shutdown H 2. Wait until all current connections and batch jobs on that server have
 completed.G 3. When all connections are gone & batch jobs complete (new connections H and batch jobs are running on other servers), install patches and rebootH that server ..no fuss, no muss. No need to even tell users the system is? being rebooted since their application availability will not be 	 impacted. C 4. When server reboots, it will again participate in load balancing E scheme. If you want to check system out after the patch/reboot before E turning the system back into production, simply leave logins disabled ! until you are satisfied it is ok.   G Having the capability to reboot servers for planned maint activity with F zero impact on application availability and not have to tell end users1 is a huge feature from an Operations perspective.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----/ From: Dale A. Marcy [mailto:dqm@y12.doe.gov]=20  Sent: November 14, 2002 1:47 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: Patch installation     C I used to frequently install patches during the day and then reboot F after the last user logged off that evening.  Several years ago, I didG that and the system started behaving erratically and I was forced to do F a reboot early in the afternoon.  Unfortunately, I cannot remember theG specifics of what VMS version and/or patches (probably somewhere around H the VMS V6.1 time).  Since then, I do not install the patches until I am ready to perform the reboot.  
 Dale A. Marcy     = "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message . news:aqtv84$bu8$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...C > It's that time of year again, when no way nohow can I schedule=20  > downtime.  > H > Patches arrive with reboot required, so I keep them for January. Would  I > it be safe to install them & not reboot, or am I better keeping them=20 G > uninstalled ? Installing without rebooting seems to go against the=20 # > stock warning carried by patches. H > I'm never sure whether the warning is because the patch is ineffectiveH > before reboot, or because the system is unstable in the window between patch / > & reboot, or whether it's just belt & braces.  > G > I've never had a problem, either installing several patches & doing a  singleG > reboot after, or installing a patch & scheduling a reboot for some=20 C > less civilised hour, but I'm a bit chary of installing a patch=20 = > requiring a reboot, & then not doing the reboot for months.  > , > For example, the sys 5 patch just arrived.E > I could not install it, and the system could crash, and it still=20 
 > wouldn't be > installed.G > If I installed it, & didn't reboot, at least it would be installed=20 - > after a crash or power failure or whatever.  > H > I'm just after maximising uptime - potentially I could see a patch for  G > a crash, and then several crashes for that reason or another, or a=20 G > power failure. At least if the patch is installed, the problems it=20 9 > fixes won't cause more than one crash (the reboot one).  > 	 > Thanks,  > Chris  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:37:44 -0800 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> 9 Subject: Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway. ( Message-ID: <3DD6AC98.6050906@rdrop.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:> > I realize this is totally OT, but this is a good and diverse( > group and the curiosity is killing me. > A > How many people here saw the local "arrival of Santa Claus" and @ > therefore, the beginning of the Christmas shopping season thisB > weekend (as opposed to the traditionl Thanksgiving weekend which > is still two weeks away)??  G I have long since given up keeping track of when commercial-mas season  F starts.  I have noted that most places now go directly from Halloween * decorations to commercial-mas decorations.  B > Is this an attempt to bolster the numbers for Christmas sales so@ > that the economy can be painted in a better light or is it yet# > another stupid local trick here??l  @ It's part of the consumerism brainwashing that permeates merkin G society.  Other favorite examples include the Cheverolet Avalanche and t  the diamond industry as a whole.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:04:40 -0600a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h9 Subject: Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway. ' Message-ID: <3DD6DD18.BE48C4EE@fsi.net>    Dean Woodward wrote: >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:@ > > I realize this is totally OT, but this is a good and diverse* > > group and the curiosity is killing me. > >iC > > How many people here saw the local "arrival of Santa Claus" andeB > > therefore, the beginning of the Christmas shopping season thisD > > weekend (as opposed to the traditionl Thanksgiving weekend which > > is still two weeks away)?? > H > I have long since given up keeping track of when commercial-mas season	 > starts.r  E FWIW, those of the Catholic pursuasion probably already know that the E Sunday before Thanksgiving this year is the feast of Christ The King, D the very last day of the Catholic Church calendar. It all starts allE over again at that point, and in earnest the first Sunday of Decembero/ this year which is the First Sunday of Advent.    E For those of more secular leanings, I offer that the season should bew? about re-examining one's self to see if there are any lapses of F integrity that one might wish to improve, then focus on improving that5 for the "season", the days between 1-Dec and 25-Dec. r  
 Why then?   & Why not? It's as good a time as any...  H For example, if you've ever thought that the way you deal with people isC in any way unsupportive of them and their personal needs, but nevermF allowed yourself to feel guilty about it, this might be a good time toD focus on building "win-win" relationships, putting others' interests> ahead of your own and taking Zig Ziglar's advice: "you can getH everything in life that you want, just help enough other people get what they want".p  H You don't have to be religious, theist or even gnostic to study the lifeH of the The Jewish Carpenter and, when you find yourself in uncomfortable7 situations, ask yourself: WWJD - "What Would Jesus Do?"m  F I'll let that be my "Christmas" message this year, though I may repeat it later in the season...1   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:08:27 -060031 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 9 Subject: Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway. ' Message-ID: <3DD6DDFB.8FA4C7BD@fsi.net>C   Bob Harris wrote:l > 7 > In article <ar60qp$fg264$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, , >  bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > @ > X I realize this is totally OT, but this is a good and diverse* > X group and the curiosity is killing me. > XiC > X How many people here saw the local "arrival of Santa Claus" andsB > X therefore, the beginning of the Christmas shopping season thisD > X weekend (as opposed to the traditionl Thanksgiving weekend which > X is still two weeks away)?? > XeD > X Is this an attempt to bolster the numbers for Christmas sales soB > X that the economy can be painted in a better light or is it yet% > X another stupid local trick here??s > XoA > X Hope no one minds.  If you think they might, just reply to meb
 > X directly.  > X  > X bill > G > No I didn't see it, but I head a news story that says that because oflJ > the way November lines up Thanksgiving this year, there is actually lessG > time between Thanksgiving and Christmas than typical.  Many merchantseG > depend heavily on Christmas sales to make their numbers for the year. I > If they can get people shopping a week earlier it could make up for the G > shorter time between Thanksgiving and Christmas and it could make theiJ > difference between success or failure for their business (especially the > smaller businesses). > 4 >                                         Bob Harris > G > PS.  Having said all that, I get tired of the Christmas music too :-)   H I'm rather a kid at heart. I only get tired of the modern remakes of the old standards - too mediocre.n  E I agree with your assessment - given the shortened holiday season and-E the state of the economy, not to mention recent economic history, I'mfH sure it's a commercial effort to try and squeeze a little more out of it than it probably has to give..   -- o David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:39:07 +0000 (UTC) / From: "Rob Heyes" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com>b Subject: VMS 7.3-1/ Message-ID: <ar6heb$7tj$1@helle.btinternet.com>o  I Is anyone using VMS 7.3-1 successfully with Oracle 7 and Oracle 8? We areyL currently on 7.2-1 Alpha, and HP are removing support for this version up toJ 7.2-2, unless you pay extra! Oracle arent very helpful at telling us about backward compatibility.b    Thanks in advance, you top pips.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:15:31 GMTh& From: Some DBA <dba@spacespamlots.com> Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-11 Message-ID: <3DD7179F.5B238DC1@spacespamlots.com>s   Rob Heyes wrote: > K > Is anyone using VMS 7.3-1 successfully with Oracle 7 and Oracle 8? We are N > currently on 7.2-1 Alpha, and HP are removing support for this version up toL > 7.2-2, unless you pay extra! Oracle arent very helpful at telling us about > backward compatibility.c > " > Thanks in advance, you top pips.    H Oracle 7.3.x.x is not certified (nor will it be) on VMS 7.3.  My companyF (to rename anonymous for now - but suffice it to say we are a VERY bigF user of VMS and Oracle - I manage 100+nodes + 60+TB on 2 redundant SANG fabrics), has all of our systems running 7.3.3.6 VMS 7.2-1H1, and 8.1.7 E on 7.3 and 7.3.1 without any major issues.  But I do have to say thatiG once Oracle is upgraded to 8.1.7 the OS is upgraded shortly thereafter.   
 Upgrade order   4 Oracle 7.3.3.6 --> 8.1.7 then  VMS 7.2-1h1 --> 7.3     -- i Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163c7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com1/   (I also still have my own consulting company)S   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:17:24 -0600-2 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>J Subject: Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at  Montagar?/ Message-ID: <utddc4t652uk41@corp.supernews.com>a   Ken,  L Thank you for your reply. It showed me that my recent move to a new computerL has a problem: that my name shows up as "news.charter.net" instead of Stuart Johnson! That is fixed now.n  F I looked for roadmap(s) at the URL quoted and found only a power pointL presentation, but I do not have powerpoint loaded. Is there another resourceJ that I could view or a way to convert the text of the powerpoint to ASCII?   Thanks,s Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT nety  3 "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com> wrote in messageu6 news:5.1.0.14.2.20021115223807.03c8e678@pop.rcn.com...7 > At 05:46 PM 11/15/2002 -0600, news.charter.net wrote:RH > >This is VERY interesting; the "OpenVMS 7.3 new features and benefits" pageD > >(URL: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/v73features.html )
 DEFINITELYC > >mentions the VAX. The corresponding page for OpenVMS 7.3-1 (URL:eL > >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/v731features.html) does not. CanJ > >someone point me at a roadmap showing HP's plans for OpenVMS VAX? Or is this > >IT? >d. > If you look at the newest OpenVMS Roadmap onH > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/> you will see VAX mentioned on page 11J > under "OpenVMS V8.2 (Topaz)" for ship in 2004.  That is the same release: > where the IA port is supposed to be ready for all users. >d > Ken Robinson >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:43:18 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> J Subject: Re: What's going on with the 7.3.1 VAX hobbyist kit at  Montagar?' Message-ID: <3DD6D816.433FBBBB@fsi.net>r   Ken Robinson wrote:- > 7 > At 05:46 PM 11/15/2002 -0600, news.charter.net wrote: M > >This is VERY interesting; the "OpenVMS 7.3 new features and benefits" pageeO > >(URL: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/v73features.html ) DEFINITELYoC > >mentions the VAX. The corresponding page for OpenVMS 7.3-1 (URL:nL > >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/v731features.html) does not. CanO > >someone point me at a roadmap showing HP's plans for OpenVMS VAX? Or is thisu > >IT? > . > If you look at the newest OpenVMS Roadmap onH > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/> you will see VAX mentioned on page 11J > under "OpenVMS V8.2 (Topaz)" for ship in 2004.  That is the same release: > where the IA port is supposed to be ready for all users.  H The better question is: when, if ever, will IA64 be ready for all users?   -- 1 David J. Dachterat dba DJE SystemsV http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:56:50 -0500S  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>$ Subject: Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses4 Message-ID: <1021116015540.400B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  % On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Nic Clews wrote:    > Martyn wrote:  > >  > > Mike Kier wrote: > >  > > >>John Smith wrote:e > > >> >  > > > > This group gets more like a Monty Python sketch every day. > >  > 6 > Except there wasn't any cheese in their Cheese Shop.  6 ISTR that there was in fact some Brie, but it was very! runny, and the cat had got to it.g  J > I suppose I resemble a rather mature piece of Stilton, well past its USE> > BY date which emits a periodic strong but distinctive odour.   Fresh out of Stilton.      > -- eA > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesa > nclews at csc dot com8 >  >    -- m John Santoso Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 02:39:12 -050070 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>$ Subject: Re: [OT] HP has big cheeses/ Message-ID: <3DD5F61B.64363062@vl.videotron.ca>a   Dean Woodward wrote:D >  > They are all busy working on the secret Microsoft Active CheeseD >  > product. Which will immediately be defined as Industry Standard >  > Cheese. > E > At not infrequent intervals, it will emit a toxic bluish substance-s > the Blue Cheese Of Death(tm).      ROFL ! ! ! ! ! ! !   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.635 ************************