1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 17 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 636       Contents:" A Dilbert cartoon that says it all& Re: A Dilbert cartoon that says it all& Re: A Dilbert cartoon that says it all! Capellas was offered job by Gates   Re: Carly reinvents HP yet again! Re: Going for authorised reseller  Happy Birthday VMS!!!  Re: HP-ETS 2002 CD Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems Re: Misuse of SYSPRV in VMS  Re: Misuse of SYSPRV in VMS  Re: Misuse of SYSPRV in VMS - Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ??? ) Re: serial console on VAXstation 3100 M38 ) Re: serial console on VAXstation 3100 M38 0 Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway.0 Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway.0 Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway.0 Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway.0 Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway.0 Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway.
 RE: VMS 7.3-1 
 Re: VMS 7.3-1 8 Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS20025 RE: What EV am I running? (family name for processor) 5 Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:44:37 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> + Subject: A Dilbert cartoon that says it all 5 Message-ID: <3DD77315.3FC841FD@swissonline.delete.ch>   6 The antics of Compaq seem to have reached Scott Adams.  	 Check out G http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20021116.html C for a very applicable comment (except maybe the last talk-balloon).      cheers   John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:20:48 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> / Subject: Re: A Dilbert cartoon that says it all & Message-ID: <3DD7CFF0.DBD71F0@fsi.net>   John McLean wrote: > 8 > The antics of Compaq seem to have reached Scott Adams. >  > Check out I > http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20021116.html E > for a very applicable comment (except maybe the last talk-balloon).    Granted.  G But if the Q had taken Dilbert's advice and done more of what made them F the most profit, they'd have switched their focus away from Wintel and	 onto VMS.   G So, yeah, the PHB's comment is congruent with the tendency to kiss BG's * ass instead of "looking out for number 1".   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:32:13 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: A Dilbert cartoon that says it all 0 Message-ID: <00A171BD.D177ADD2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <3DD7CFF0.DBD71F0@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >John McLean wrote:  >>  9 >> The antics of Compaq seem to have reached Scott Adams.  >>   >> Check outJ >> http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20021116.htmlF >> for a very applicable comment (except maybe the last talk-balloon). > 	 >Granted.  > H >But if the Q had taken Dilbert's advice and done more of what made themG >the most profit, they'd have switched their focus away from Wintel and 
 >onto VMS.  G Looking at the Dilbert in question, it struck be how much Dilbert's PHB 5 looks like "curly".  Could there be a connection?  :)    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:43:11 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> * Subject: Capellas was offered job by Gates8 Message-ID: <7redtugcn7f4l3dhlfnfablir8pgrken66@4ax.com>  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/28136.html   ? "In his short time at the merged HP, Capellas proved himself so A indispensible that Carly Fiorina has decided not to replace him.    C According to the New York Times, Microsoft offered to make Capellas / No.3, adopting the title of President and COO."   > Hey maybe he'll just strip down WorldCom first then merge with Microsoft.     ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2002 20:34:14 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: Carly reinvents HP yet again - Message-ID: <87n0o8xtmh.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   2 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  F > I find it interesting that the writer of the article made a big fussC > about Capellas' "sudden" departure and the fact that Carly didn't D > mention it. Jesus Christ, there is nothing surprising about the exB > CEO of the consumed company leaving the new owner. And secondly,F > what was Carly supposed to say ? "we finally got rid of him" ? "If I* > were you'd I'd sell my Worldcom stock ?"  @ Teh Reg mentioned that the NYT reported that curly had passed on becomming #3 at the billery.    C Now *THAT* would be a match made in heaven. And here I was thinking D that there is no one who deserves to be inflicked with the bastard!!     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:13:37 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>* Subject: Re: Going for authorised reseller/ Message-ID: <3DD698DF.911EAC73@vl.videotron.ca>    ICUSC wrote:J > We are going to contact Compaq/HP next week about becoming an authorised
 > partner.    < What advantage you do not already have would this give you ?  N Would it remove any freedom you currently have to market your wares ? Would HP  want to control what you sell ?   H Seems that you currently fill a niche that HP doesn't want filled, so myM concern is that with HP having a leash on your neck, you may not have such an R easy time selling the stuff customers want, but HP doesn't want customers to have.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2002 06:33:43 -0600; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)  Subject: Happy Birthday VMS!!!3 Message-ID: <+U04NyGGX2F$@eisner.encompasserve.org>    17-Nov-1858 - 17-Nov-2002!    1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  I         "To enslave men, successfully and safely, it is necessary to have H         their minds  occupied with thoughts and aspirations short of theL         liberty of which they are  deprived.  A certain degree of attainableJ         good must be kept before them." Frederick Douglas, "My Bondage and         My Freedom," 1855    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:08:51 -0600 / From: Clay M. Denton <denton@orison.dsserv.com>  Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 CD 8 Message-ID: <i8jftu0ni8660ikq6rb8cc68kn1unnuqib@4ax.com>  V I'm trying to figure out how any statement made gets turned into a "HP doesn't support
 VMS" message.   Z Regarding the conference CD - along with the "defray the cost of putting on the conferenceZ by attending" post, many Encompass volunteers put in countless (OK - 2-3000) hours to helpX produce this conference.  They did it because they wanted to, and they wanted to supportZ Encompass.  The conference CD is an output of all of this.  So, pay the $90 for a CD - andW get a free Encompass membership 8-) , or if you're already a member - enjoy one of your ! many (and more to come) benefits.     Posted from a VMS news server...   Clay  C On 5 Nov 2002 22:00:58 GMT, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:   5 >In article <aq8j9j$7of71$1@id-46415.news.dfncis.de>, , >James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote:I >> How does anyone expect VMS usage to increase if the information is not  >> widely available? > = >You seem to be assuming that HP wants VMS usage to increase.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:09:09 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> % Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems I Message-ID: <9mzB9.89513$YSz1.21324@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   1 <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in message 2 news:00A17017.E068E0A2@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... > L > The naive observer (me, for example), would imagine that a company doing aI > steady healthy business, even if it only got new customers in at a rate  fastJ > enough to offset attrition, could be a worthwhile enterprise and allowed toJ > continue.  Under current conditions, only closely-held private companies are ) > allowed to continue that kind of thing.  > E > So the largest companies in any field are likely to gobble up their  competitors H > because they can't otherwise show enough growth to keep their managersH > employed.  The managers of the smaller (publicly-traded) companies are incentedI > to sell out because they can personally get rich, while if they stay in  there K > and don't show quarter-to-quarter growth, they may get sued and/or fired.  It'sL > worth it for larger companies to buy and shut down competitors with better > products.  > ! > I have no idea how to fix this.     > The whole crux of this is that personal avarice trumps ethics.  I In order to have personal integrity in something like this, you deny your H capital to the companies that engage in such behavior, but you won't get& rich when Capellas-types sell you out.  G Not meaning to tell you what to do with your money, nor soliciting your L business (there, that keeps me out of hot water with the SEC), but you mightF want to take a look at US Treasury bonds - the ones that are inflationE indexed. Seems like a safe bet if the US gets the military-industrial , complex pumped up again. Or tax-free muni's.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2002 06:52:59 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) % Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems 3 Message-ID: <miwZjoubOzoN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <wvgB9.16950$QD6.1614998@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:   P > 2. Someone in Compaq management had to know that EV7 was that far ahead of theL > rest of the industry. Since it would have been child's play to market thisM > advantage by reducing profit margins for 1-12 months, I have to assume that , > Compaq management was paid off to kill EV8  D That does not follow.  The chip that was cancelled was EV8.  The EV7D chip was not cancelled.  It is fallacious to assume that the advanceB made by EV7 would have been matched by an EV8 advance.  EV8 shouldB have performed no worse that EV7, but the statement made by Compaq> was that EV8 would not have been sufficiently better than EV7.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:06:13 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems * Message-ID: <00A171DB.B6EFE4BE.3@decus.de>  0 "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:  C > In article <wvgB9.16950$QD6.1614998@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil % Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  > E > > 2. Someone in Compaq management had to know that EV7 was that far  ahead of theB > > rest of the industry. Since it would have been child's play to market this C > > advantage by reducing profit margins for 1-12 months, I have to  assume that . > > Compaq management was paid off to kill EV8 > F > That does not follow.  The chip that was cancelled was EV8.  The EV7F > chip was not cancelled.  It is fallacious to assume that the advanceD > made by EV7 would have been matched by an EV8 advance.  EV8 shouldD > have performed no worse that EV7, but the statement made by Compaq@ > was that EV8 would not have been sufficiently better than EV7.  @ So? Assuming for a moment the statement made by Compaq is indeedF correct this would only prove that EV8 was a design "not as good as we? [Compaq] had thought it would have been". Quoting from an Alpha D presentation shown in 2001 by Andreas Doering (Compaq Computer GmbH,F i.e., the German part of the company) during a "Diamond Forum": "Alpha; Semiconductor Technology -- EV8: optimized for threaded and E multi-stream workloads and for the SMP structure of future systems -- $ EV9 and EV10 already in active R&D".   I can see two options here: 2 (1) Optimize the core and chip design if possible;9 (2) Skip this design completely and try another approach.   A (The last option being what Motorola did with the 68000 series: a E "68050" -- if I remember the model number correctly -- never existed,  at least outside of Motorola.)   Michael    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2002 21:11:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: Jaw dropping EV7 systems - Message-ID: <87el9kxrvo.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ) carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:   / > p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes...   B > }No special device is necessary and payments of this type can be> > made with every }mobile phone and with every Swisscom Mobile= > subscription. For the time being }this service is available @ > exclusively to Swisscom customers in Switzerland at }speciallyD > labelled Coca-Cola vending machines where a 25 cent charge will be; > }added to each purchase made at these vending machines. "   F > A 25 cent charge added to the price of your dollar or less purchase?  C Can I point you to a drink vending machine that is 0.80AUD per can? C That's about  $US0.38 or so. You can even get to it via the net. :)   C > You too can pay more than 25% more than the item is normally sold D > for.  (Unless Cokes are seriously overpriced in Switzerland, whichA > wouldn't surprise me - I've heard that food costs are something ) > around double what they are in the US.)    ( > What idiot would pay such a large fee?  B Idiots are alway in plentifull supply... Idiots with money, almost as common. See WC Fields.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2002 07:00:35 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) $ Subject: Re: Misuse of SYSPRV in VMS3 Message-ID: <pR$4u4reFy5B@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <zvwB9.23263$6g.6404635@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes: > JF Mezei wrote:  > H >> SYSPRV essentially gets you access to any/all files. So it is a very  >> powerful privilege. >  > Yes. > H >> However, it is used for many other purposes. For instance, the MAIL$ G >> routines, you need SYSPRV to change the "FROM" line of a message you F >> are sending. And I believe that TCPIP services , you need SYSPRV to# >> create a socket on a known port.  > D > I can see that having SYSPRV to impersonate another user for MAIL. > G > However the last time I looked at the TCPIP documentation, only OPER  : > privilege was needed to create a socket on a known port.  H Certainly that is an illogical choice.  It seems to me it must have beenN made by someone who had never worked in a production shop with real operators.I OPER should convey only the ability to affect coarse scheduling regarding G how others can use the system, not use of the system by the person with % OPER.  Valid uses that I know of are:   0 	Log in when logins are disabled (somebody must) 	Control batch queues  	Receive OPCOM messages  	SYSMAN   H They should have used the same privilege as DECnet (LOG_IO as I recall).   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2002 21:19:35 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: Misuse of SYSPRV in VMS- Message-ID: <87adk8xriw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   2 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  F > SYSPRV essentially gets you access to any/all files. So it is a very > powerful privilege.   E No, it get you possible access via the `system' priv field. Which may 	 be SFA...    F > However, it is used for many other purposes. For instance, the MAIL$F > routines, you need SYSPRV to change the "FROM" line of a message youE > are sending. And I believe that TCPIP services , you need SYSPRV to " > create a socket on a known port.   F > Shouldn't the VMS folks have kept SYSPRV solely for file accces, andD > made it such that another privilege would be required for non-file+ > accesses such as the two examples above ?   C But once you have all these `neat ideas', and run out of priv bits, D you now have a realy deep hole, and have broken a butt load of stuffC for arguable benefit. Not so much `stop digging' as not starting in  the first place.   A > I would feel much mroe comfortable with an application having a B > privilege such as "TELECOM" which grants it what is needed to doE > without jeoperdizing the file system. Similarly, to create a DECNET 9 > object, an application needs SYSNAM which si also quite E > dangerous. (or are decnet object names stored in an obscure logical  > name table ?)    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:57:31 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> $ Subject: Re: Misuse of SYSPRV in VMS' Message-ID: <3DD7CA7B.F6C19501@fsi.net>    Paul Repacholi wrote:  > 4 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > H > > SYSPRV essentially gets you access to any/all files. So it is a very > > powerful privilege.  > G > No, it get you possible access via the `system' priv field. Which may  > be SFA...  > H > > However, it is used for many other purposes. For instance, the MAIL$H > > routines, you need SYSPRV to change the "FROM" line of a message youG > > are sending. And I believe that TCPIP services , you need SYSPRV to $ > > create a socket on a known port. > H > > Shouldn't the VMS folks have kept SYSPRV solely for file accces, andF > > made it such that another privilege would be required for non-file- > > accesses such as the two examples above ?  > E > But once you have all these `neat ideas', and run out of priv bits, F > you now have a realy deep hole, and have broken a butt load of stuffE > for arguable benefit. Not so much `stop digging' as not starting in  > the first place.  G Well, in the protection scheme, I look at it this way: the SYSPRV/WORLD H pair are to system-level access (read: permission) what GRPPRV/GROUP areE to group-level access. So, I tend to agree that something like LOG_IO G might have been more appropriate. In general any object that can have a D protection mask (sure wish that included queue entries!) should comeH into the realm of access granted by the various privilege bits; that is,E not limited to file access, unless two (or more) protection masks are B established: one for file access only, another for non-file object1 access, another for ... (fill in the blank), etc.   H In the grander scheme, it seems wiser - based on experience in general -B to learn to live within limitations than to try and keep expanding; everytime we encounter a "hhmmm, ... didn't think of that".    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:18:42 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 6 Subject: Re: New AlphaServer models (ES47, GS1280) ???8 Message-ID: <ipcdtu8eq2vssep21qb7ge1khn3jki7vk0@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:51:21 -0500, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert  Deininger) wrote:    >IG >Again, I guess these statements were delivered with at least a partial H >dose of "wishful thinking".  I saw a 4 processor prototype running (farI >from perfectly) almost exactly a year ago.  "Larger than 32P" would have  >been fantasy at that point.  A Unfortunately you are completely incorrect. Several other regular A posters were present, we even saw a photograph of the machine (or E maybe it was the 64p box) and were given the exact dates on which EV7 D 1p, 4p, 16p, 32p, 64p machines booted. He didn't give a date for theE GS1280 but confrmed it had just booted Unix. By design,. you can just C glue these things together. If you saw a 4p box running then  16 of D these bolted together would build a 64p box. Is it any surprise thatE the design lab wanted to boot a 64p or 128p box at least once as soon  they could..  E The Compaq manager who gave the talk was undoubtedly in a position to B know what he was talking about. Search back a year or more ago and# you'll find out if you really want.   D This was all built with first pass chips, which, he pointed out, was? really incredible. Yes there were some bugs, but far fewer than A expected and they could work round them in firmware/software well $ enough to reliably run Unix and VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:09:13 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: serial console on VAXstation 3100 M38/ Message-ID: <3DD697D7.1F64C9F6@vl.videotron.ca>    Torsten Reichert wrote: : > 1) Does anybody know, where I can get an adapter for the: > - vax serial cable with that assymmetric phone-like jackE > - to a serial cable for RS232 to connect to a PC as a boot console.   M Look for "MMJ" connectors (Modified Modular Jack) at places that sell Digital  gear, or places like Black Box.   K Or, if yo are adventurous, take a normal RJ11 plug, and remove the tab, and K then you should be able to use the plug (it needs a 6 conductor cable). Use J Google on thise newsgroup for "MMJ" and you should find a pointer to a web! site that described the pin-outs.   ) > 2) I need a Null-modem cable, correct ?   L If you get a tru MMJ-RS232 adaptor, then you won't need null-modem since theG MMJ side does the reversing of signals for you. (send goes to receive ,  reveive goes to send)     H > 3) What are the default parameters for the connection ( 9600, N, 1 ) ?  N If that doesn't work, try other speeds. Essentially, once the machine has beenI started for a while,  if you press RETURN, you should get a ">>>" prompt. ! Change speeds until you get this.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2002 21:04:35 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: serial console on VAXstation 3100 M38- Message-ID: <87isywxs7w.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * Torsten Reichert <news@wanano.net> writes:  ; > I got a VAXstation 3100 M38, to test my software on POSIX E > conformance on different systems. So I do not want to have monitors > > for all that machines standing around. The boxes are enough.   : > 1) Does anybody know, where I can get an adapter for the: > - vax serial cable with that assymmetric phone-like jackE > - to a serial cable for RS232 to connect to a PC as a boot console.    http:www.dnpg.com   E have everything you need. And Island Computers You may want to see if E you can find a MMJ crimper, and the MMJ connectors rather than paying  silly money for cables.   ) > 2) I need a Null-modem cable, correct ?   $ DTE to DTE, that is null modem, yes.   F > 3) What are the default parameters for the connection ( 9600, N, 1 )   Correct.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Nov 02 08:39:58 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 9 Subject: Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway. ) Message-ID: <wEm9YL5sWJAW@elias.decus.ch>   P In article <3DD6AC98.6050906@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:? >> I realize this is totally OT, but this is a good and diverse ) >> group and the curiosity is killing me.  >>  B >> How many people here saw the local "arrival of Santa Claus" andA >> therefore, the beginning of the Christmas shopping season this C >> weekend (as opposed to the traditionl Thanksgiving weekend which  >> is still two weeks away)??  > I > I have long since given up keeping track of when commercial-mas season  H > starts.  I have noted that most places now go directly from Halloween , > decorations to commercial-mas decorations. > C >> Is this an attempt to bolster the numbers for Christmas sales so A >> that the economy can be painted in a better light or is it yet $ >> another stupid local trick here??  H A friend reports that he saw the first Xmas tree here about a month ago.M Being somewhat an awkward customer, he asked the lady handing out advertising 0 pamphlets if she had any Easter bunnies yet. :-)   > B > It's part of the consumerism brainwashing that permeates merkin I > society.  Other favorite examples include the Cheverolet Avalanche and  " > the diamond industry as a whole. >   E On diamonds, I recall several acquaintances justifying their purchase B of expensive engagement rings with statements such as "If anything@ happens to me, she'll be able to sell the ring". Firstly, do you@ know any woman who would? Secondly, the retailers have somethingB like a 100% markup, and they aren't going to give the retail price back.    More detail at9 http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/scandals/diamonds.html     --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:49:19 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>9 Subject: Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway. * Message-ID: <00A171AF.72113D73.7@decus.de>  + "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:   A > How many people here saw the local "arrival of Santa Claus" and @ > therefore, the beginning of the Christmas shopping season thisB > weekend (as opposed to the traditionl Thanksgiving weekend which > is still two weeks away)?? > B > Is this an attempt to bolster the numbers for Christmas sales so@ > that the economy can be painted in a better light or is it yet# > another stupid local trick here??   C You should feel lucky. Here in Germany a lot of shops (supermarkets C mostly) started selling stollen cake, ginger bread and similar food B around the end of August (no, I'm NOT joking); in some regions the( summer school holidays weren't yet over.   Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:14:10 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>9 Subject: Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway. 5 Message-ID: <ar7q63$g2teg$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   7 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> schreef in bericht / news:ar60qp$fg264$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...  > > > I realize this is totally OT, but this is a good and diverse( > group and the curiosity is killing me. > A > How many people here saw the local "arrival of Santa Claus" and @ > therefore, the beginning of the Christmas shopping season thisB > weekend (as opposed to the traditionl Thanksgiving weekend which > is still two weeks away)?? >  [snip]  K Santa Claus is an americanized (?) version of St. Nicholas (St. Nikolaas in L Dutch); this saint celebrates his birthday on 6 December. His arrival in theK Netherlands happened last Saturday, nicely timed for his birthday. The fact K that he got mixed up with Christmas (birth of Jesus) in the US leads to all C kinds of confusion. Understandable but don't blame Santa Claus ....    Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:17:24 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>9 Subject: Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway. . Message-ID: <3DD699C2.88892F9@vl.videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:B > Is this an attempt to bolster the numbers for Christmas sales so@ > that the economy can be painted in a better light or is it yet# > another stupid local trick here??   I Considering the strike at USA ports in september, I am surprised thet the " christmas season would be ealier.   N Look at it from the merchant's point of view: in order to get sufficient stockH of this year's hot toys, they have to place very early orders with earlyK deliveries (september usually). So the earlier they can start to sell them, M the less inventory they must keep and interest paid for payment of those toys  to the chinese manufacturers.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:52:01 GMT % From: Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com> 9 Subject: Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway. = Message-ID: <harris-4AA9FA.15512516112002@juggl7.zk3.dec.com>   5 In article <ar60qp$fg264$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, *  bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  > X I realize this is totally OT, but this is a good and diverse( X group and the curiosity is killing me. X A X How many people here saw the local "arrival of Santa Claus" and @ X therefore, the beginning of the Christmas shopping season thisB X weekend (as opposed to the traditionl Thanksgiving weekend which X is still two weeks away)?? X B X Is this an attempt to bolster the numbers for Christmas sales so@ X that the economy can be painted in a better light or is it yet# X another stupid local trick here??  X ? X Hope no one minds.  If you think they might, just reply to me  X directly.  X  X bill  F No I didn't see it, but I head a news story that says that because of I the way November lines up Thanksgiving this year, there is actually less  F time between Thanksgiving and Christmas than typical.  Many merchants G depend heavily on Christmas sales to make their numbers for the year.   H If they can get people shopping a week earlier it could make up for the F shorter time between Thanksgiving and Christmas and it could make the I difference between success or failure for their business (especially the   smaller businesses).  2                                         Bob Harris  E PS.  Having said all that, I get tired of the Christmas music too :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:51:23 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 9 Subject: Re: Something totally OT, but here it is anyway. 8 Message-ID: <o5iftu81c3ml0iak00dd7unqbsupv5lp0i@4ax.com>  @ On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:14:10 +0100, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:   > 8 >"Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> schreef in bericht0 >news:ar60qp$fg264$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... >>? >> I realize this is totally OT, but this is a good and diverse ) >> group and the curiosity is killing me.  >>B >> How many people here saw the local "arrival of Santa Claus" andA >> therefore, the beginning of the Christmas shopping season this C >> weekend (as opposed to the traditionl Thanksgiving weekend which  >> is still two weeks away)??  >> >[snip]  > L >Santa Claus is an americanized (?) version of St. Nicholas (St. Nikolaas inM >Dutch); this saint celebrates his birthday on 6 December. His arrival in the   D Worse. The current image of Santa Claus was actually created by Coca/ Cola early this century. Holidays are coming...   L >Netherlands happened last Saturday, nicely timed for his birthday. The factL >that he got mixed up with Christmas (birth of Jesus) in the US leads to allD >kinds of confusion. Understandable but don't blame Santa Claus .... >  >Hans    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:49:35 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: VMS 7.3-1T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B6B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Rob,  D Fwiw, if there is a fair amount of testing required for your upgradeH (and there always is), you may want to consider upgrading (via phases asF Mike indicated) to 8.1.7.4 as it is now certified by Oracle on OpenVMSF V7.3-1 as well. As others on this list have stated, OpenVMS V7.3-1 has* some significant performance enhancements.  F In addition, Oracle V8.1.7.4 is the terminal release for Oracle on ALLD platforms and hence will be the 8i version supported for the longest
 period.=20  5 See Oracle Metalink for official version information.t  E [Terminal release is generic Oracle terminology that says that is thet. last major patch set planned for that version]   Regardso  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesi Voice: 613-592-4660P Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)e       -----Original Message-----7 From: Rob Heyes [mailto:robert.heyes@btinternet.com]=20  Sent: November 16, 2002 5:39 PMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComS Subject: VMS 7.3-1    E Is anyone using VMS 7.3-1 successfully with Oracle 7 and Oracle 8? We3B are currently on 7.2-1 Alpha, and HP are removing support for thisG version up to 7.2-2, unless you pay extra! Oracle arent very helpful ate( telling us about backward compatibility.    Thanks in advance, you top pips.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:13:27 -0600i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>M Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1' Message-ID: <3DD7CE37.2B647FF6@fsi.net>m   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Rob, > F > Fwiw, if there is a fair amount of testing required for your upgradeJ > (and there always is), you may want to consider upgrading (via phases asH > Mike indicated) to 8.1.7.4 as it is now certified by Oracle on OpenVMSH > V7.3-1 as well. As others on this list have stated, OpenVMS V7.3-1 has, > some significant performance enhancements.  D ...but has a noteworthy list of new bugs, given that it's a -x levelF release. See the ECO FTP site and the archives of this newsgroup. Plan= your upgrades carefully and test thoroughly before going intoh7 production. There are some very important level 1 ECOs.   G Some have speculated that V7.3-x is suffering due to the level of focuso! on the IPF port. I tend to agree.e   -- o David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsD http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:27:56 GMTv. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)A Subject: Re: VMS @ 25 --- Mark Gorham's Presentation at HPETS2002 3 Message-ID: <wLyB9.64006$6a.1022325@news.chello.at>w  b In article <3DCD4A4C.63C15E0D@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:1 >what is wrong with downloading the real player ?e  = JF, you know the answer, does it (already) run on (Open)VMS ?    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistf E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:08:55 -0500O' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>a> Subject: RE: What EV am I running? (family name for processor)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B6C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  
 G'day Rob,  H I sent the note formatted as plain text - did others also not receive my last post correctly?  B I use outlook 2000, but have not had any issues sending plain textG before, but I must admit the ES45 output was cut-n-paste from a Keatermo window.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesy Voice: 613-592-4660r Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)c       -----Original Message-----< From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]=20  Sent: November 15, 2002 10:04 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComO> Subject: Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor)    
 In articleH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B62@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net> ,l( "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:   >Mark, >fI >As a fyi - Here is what the latest Alpha ES45 1.25Mhz system produces=20>G >when a $show cpu/full is entered: (dual CPU system). Hopefully, the=20i1 >formatting does not get munged with email, but -n  E Kerry, you're sending with stinkware from the Gates of Hell.  This isd microslop's idea of plain text:o  , >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Content-Type: text/plain;# >              charset=3D"us-ascii"  >Mime-Version: 1.0  @ As a result, your post had no chance of passing unmolested.  (ItA contains dollar signs, the escape character in quoted-printable.).  G 100 quatloos to anyone who can explain a reliable way to make MicrosoftsB Outhouse really send plain, ascii text messages.  Outhouse Express doesn't count...     >e >$ sho sys/noproci > E >OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node XXXXX  14-NOV-2002 17:25:39.74  Uptime  0=20d	 >18:50:44h >C >$ sho cpu /full >o) >System: XXXXX, AlphaServer ES45 Model 2Bs > 1 >  SMP execlet   =3D3D 3 : Enabled : Streamlined.   >  Config tree   =3D3D Version 6: >  Primary CPU   =3D3D 0                             =3D20B >  HWRPB CPUs    =3D3D 4                                     =3D20B >  Page Size     =3D3D 8192                                  =3D20: >  Revision Code =3D3D                               =3D20# >  Serial Number =3D3D 4240KSVZA001e >  Default CPU Capabilities:  >        System: QUORUM RUN=3D20  >  Default Process Capabilities:  >        System: QUORUM RUN=3D20   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Nov 02 18:34:48 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t> Subject: Re: What EV am I running? (family name for processor)) Message-ID: <BqwBO699T0Px@elias.decus.ch>C   In article <rdeininger-1511022204120001@1cust215.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > In articleK > <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B62@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,i* > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote: >  >>Mark,. >>G >>As a fyi - Here is what the latest Alpha ES45 1.25Mhz system producesoE >>when a $show cpu/full is entered: (dual CPU system). Hopefully, thea2 >>formatting does not get munged with email, but - > G > Kerry, you're sending with stinkware from the Gates of Hell.  This isy! > microslop's idea of plain text:t > - >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  >>Content-Type: text/plain;g" >>              charset="us-ascii" >>Mime-Version: 1.0m >   ; I have just inspected a couple of emails that I sent my VMSo> system from work using Outlook. They too come with the headers= above. Outlook has been set to send "text only" messages (ando< the checkbox is greyed out so I cannot change it), yet those@ headers remain. The text however, _is_ straight unmolested text.  K > As a result, your post had no chance of passing unmolested.  (It contains/: > dollar signs, the escape character in quoted-printable.) >s  D Now, when I look at a message received at work from a Compaq addressI (it's now a @hp.com address), subsequently I forwarded to my home system, 0 it too is littered with the =3D and =20 strings.  < That suggests a problem with the Compaq/hp mail setup to me.  eI > 100 quatloos to anyone who can explain a reliable way to make Microsoft L > Outhouse really send plain, ascii text messages.  Outhouse Express doesn't
 > count... >  >  >> >>$ sho sys/noproc >>C >>OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node XXXXX  14-NOV-2002 17:25:39.74  Uptime  0o
 >>18:50:44 >> >>$ sho cpu /fulle >>* >>System: XXXXX, AlphaServer ES45 Model 2B >>0 >>  SMP execlet   =3D 3 : Enabled : Streamlined. >>  Config tree   =3D Version 6n7 >>  Primary CPU   =3D 0                             =20c? >>  HWRPB CPUs    =3D 4                                     =20h? >>  Page Size     =3D 8192                                  =20o7 >>  Revision Code =3D                               =20o" >>  Serial Number =3D 4240KSVZA001 >>  Default CPU Capabilities:  >>        System: QUORUM RUN=20n! >>  Default Process Capabilities:  >>        System: QUORUM RUN=20  -- e
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.636 ************************