1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 26 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 653       Contents: Re: allocating from P1 Re: allocating from P1" Re: Changing vms passwords via web" Re: Changing vms passwords via web CHECK THIS OUT!!!!( Configure XPDF helper in Netscape 3.03?? Re: Database for VMS Re: Database for VMS Re: Database for VMS Re: Database for VMS( Directory and Copy with un-expired filesP Re: Exam 010-627 (HSx80 Solutions for OpenVMS): read this beforeyouwrite  it youP Re: Exam 010-627 (HSx80 Solutions for OpenVMS): read this beforeyouwrite it youw@ FOLLOWUP: DECW$XFS (X font service) - anyone successfully using? Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  RE: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Get owner info from UAF  Re: Get owner info from UAF  Re: Get owner info from UAF  Re: Get owner info from UAF 4 Gigabit Ethernet DEGPA-TA as second network problems8 Re: Gigabit Ethernet DEGPA-TA as second network problems8 Re: Gigabit Ethernet DEGPA-TA as second network problems Heartfelt Appologies!!! - Re: I give up, need Solaris for VMS jobs now. ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) RE: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org ) Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org 8 Re: Interesting SHOW USERS "feature" under VMS 7.3 Alpha8 Re: Interesting SHOW USERS "feature" under VMS 7.3 Alpha" Re: Jackson Structured Programming" Re: Jackson Structured Programming" Re: Jackson Structured Programming" Re: Jackson Structured Programming6 Re: Jumper settings for TZ87 in StorageWorks enclosure4 Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem.8 RE: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem.8 Re: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem.8 Re: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem.8 Re: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem. Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping% Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance % Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance % Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance % POP Server and/or TCP strange problem < Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)@ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)@ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)& Re: Problem with NFS on HP TCPIP stack Removing phantom TCPIP services # Re: SMTP non working after upgrade. # Re: SMTP non working after upgrade. # Re: SMTP non working after upgrade. # Re: SMTP non working after upgrade. # Re: SMTP non working after upgrade. ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' RE: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' RE: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project   Re: Weak $DELPRC and mighty AMDS  Re: Weak $DELPRC and mighty AMDS6 Re: Where to get the last SRM for UP2000+ motherboard?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 17:16:47 -08001 From: usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer)  Subject: Re: allocating from P1 = Message-ID: <477e0934.0211251716.6ec2d2ba@posting.google.com>   X VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A17803.D5110413@SendSpamHere.ORG>...  # > >1- how do I allocate an NA page? H > >2- how do I allocate a page at the bottom of the stack?  Do I do whatG > >you suggest, use the linker option to start with a reasonable stack, / > >then allocate 1 page from P1 and mark it NA?  >  > Sounds like a plan.   F But you still haven't told me how to mark the page as NA?  I thought IC could create the page in a more priv. mode than myself, then get an E accvio with each access, but sys$expreg doesn't let you create a page  in a more privs. mode.  F So, what I settled on was creating on global page in P1, right up nextF to the stack, and never using it, thus allowing my stack some space to grow.   E Also, I can not find any linker option that lets me control the stack  size.  Here are all of them:  7  /ALPHA     /BPAGE     /BRIEF     /CONTIGUOUS           ; /CROSS_REFERENCE      /DEBUG     /DEMAND_ZERO          /DSF C   /EXECUTABLE           /FULL      /GST       /HEADER    /INCLUDE   8 /INFORMATIONALS       /LIBRARY   /MAP       /NATIVE_ONLYC   /OPTIONS   /P0IMAGE   /PROTECT   /REPLACE   /SECTION_BINDING      . /SELECTIVE_SEARCH     /SHAREABLE /SYMBOL_TABLEC   /SYSEXE    /SYSLIB    /SYSSHR    /SYSTEM    /THREADS_ENABLE       % /TRACEBACK /USERLIBRARY          /VAX   
 joshua lehrer  factset research systems   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:08:27 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: allocating from P1 0 Message-ID: <00A17803.D5110413@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <477e0934.0211241524.79d2217f@posting.google.com>, usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer) writes:  >>  M >> It might be advisable to allocate a NA page at the bottom of the stack be- K >> tween it and your first accessible P1 region extent to insure that there O >> is enough stack being allocated before you start using the rest of P1 space. M >> This will cause your program to ACCVIO when/if the stack crosses into this L >> space.  I'd think it better to find out that your stack allocation is in- > ! >1- how do I allocate an NA page? F >2- how do I allocate a page at the bottom of the stack?  Do I do whatE >you suggest, use the linker option to start with a reasonable stack, - >then allocate 1 page from P1 and mark it NA?    Sounds like a plan.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:55:34 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: Changing vms passwords via web 4 Message-ID: <1021124232800.400L-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On 24 Nov 2002, Larry Kilgallen wrote:  W > In article <vvA5AE49Xj9S@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: ^ > > In article <tdyD9.80593$P31.42207@rwcrnsc53>, "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes: > N > >> My gut feel is that it won't work. I think you'll have to write a programI > >> (in BASIC, C, FORTRAN, etc) to do this. If I remember correctly, SET G > >> PASSWORD is one DCL command that won't accept input from a command / > >> procedure, even if you redirect SYS$INPUT.  > >>   > > C > > Your gut feel is wrong here. I've just tried it, and it works.  ? > > (V7.3-1, but I do have a feeling that in some prior version / > > 4.n or 5.n ???, your statement was correct)  > G > That is correct.  The behavior of SET PASSWORD was explicitly changed C > in this regard, particularly because there formerly was no system  > service to change passwords.  G Commencing with VMS V6.2, you needed LOG_IO to execute "$ SET PASSWORD" B from a command file with sys$input redirected to the command file,* though I don't know if that is still true.  H It wasn't a completely satisfactory solution to allowing users to changeD their own passwords from captive accounts, but it was the only thingA we could come up with at the time (1989, when this was originally ? written.)  To minimize exposure, the command file to change the A password was created with no access except by the owner, and with ? the "erase-on-delete" bit set, and is deleted immediately after  being executed.   D The customer had password requirements beyond those enforced by VMS,B especially at the time, such as the password could not include the? user's first name, last name, or initials as a substring either A forward, reverse or as a cyclic permutation; it had to include at F least one non-alphabetic character; couldn't repeat the same characterH too many times, etc., so we had to validate the password before handing @ it off to SET PASSWORD.  We couldn't just spawn "$ set password", and let it take its input from the terminal.  ? (Now we could just add our own password policy module, I think. C Looking at the revision history dates in the sample password policy C modules on our VAX, it looks like DEC documented this stuff about 6 ( months after we did all the work.  Feh.)   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:15:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Changing vms passwords via web 3 Message-ID: <mTZ71xUTdJfk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <1021124232800.400L-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:   A > (Now we could just add our own password policy module, I think. E > Looking at the revision history dates in the sample password policy E > modules on our VAX, it looks like DEC documented this stuff about 6 * > months after we did all the work.  Feh.)  > As I recall, they documented it in the same release where they introduced it -- V5.4.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:45:39 GMT 3 From: "Hope and Love" <hopeandlove2002@hotmail.com>  Subject: CHECK THIS OUT!!!! 9 Message-ID: <DwdE9.29789$ea.600057@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>   T Are You looking for the Perfect Christmas Gift for that Special Lady in Your Life???; Do You want to Help her have that smooooth look and feel???   L http://www.advanceddermalsolutions.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi/Hope   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:55:50 -0800 + From: "Mike Scott" <mscott_NOSPAM@axys.com> 1 Subject: Configure XPDF helper in Netscape 3.03??   Message-ID: <3de2ac10$1@nubby2.>   Hello,L I have installed and configured XPDF on my system (OVMS 7.3).  It works fineG as a stand-alone app.  I have tried to make it work as a "Helper" under L Netscape 3.03 and can't get it to go.  I've tried: quotes, no quotes, %s, noJ %s, and any other tips I've found on the net.  Has anyone been able to getL Netscape to properly display .PDF files using this Helper mechanism??  -many thanks. 
 Mike Scott mscott@axys.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:49:18 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Database for VMS 5 Message-ID: <_%vE9.19196$H67.86918@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   K >> Interesting thing is Interbase, like Oracle, was first written using VMS  as the >> base platform!    True? ; Is there anywhere on the web where I could find this said ? D It`s not that I don't believe you, but I`d like to see an "official"J document saying this. Kind of interesting Oracle first tought that VMS wasH the best-suited OS for their db... and then they migrated to go with the flow (and the money) I guess.    --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) 8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  E "Don Sykes" <annonymous@pacbell.net> a crit dans le message de news:   3DE26ADE.E1040CE1@pacbell.net...G > Borland open sourced its Interbase a few years ago. I ported the last  version I > (4.0) circa 97, but that was before it was open sourced. Interbase is a  big dbL > with a small footprint. It supports all the standard stuff: client/server,# > triggers, sql precomps, etc, etc. H > As was metioned in the PostgreSQL message, fork was one of the biggest	 issues. I J > had to work around it. Actually, the biggest issue for me was making all the % > various QA scripts work as on Unix. J > Interesting thing is Interbase, like Oracle, was first written using VMS as the > base platform!H > There is a ng (borland.public.interbase.opensource) if anyone wants to take on  > this for free.2 > Also, Ann Harrison (an old vms'er) has a website (http://www.ibphoenix.com) with 8 > all the info on other platforms that have been ported. >  >  > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > > 
 > > Hello, > > J > > I know this has been brought up before, but I didn't follow the thread > > at the time. > > ? > > What are the options/opinions of a "free" database for VMS?  > > L > > I went out and looked as MySQL... But there's isn't a VMS port for it. I/ > > downloaded it anyway... Maybe I'll port it.  > >  > > Thanks in advance, > > 
 > > Lyndon > >  > > --K > > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my 
 > > employer.  > > L > > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > > have  > > to look at the horse's butt. >  >  > -- >  > Have VMS. Will Travel. > Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)  > San Francisco    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:32:56 GMT ( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Database for VMS + Message-ID: <3DE2B378.F3FFCC41@pacbell.net>   B Its true for both, but I don't know where it might be documented. M I know only from my work at Oracle (a year at HQ-Redwood Shores, on a porting J project), and as I mentioned, I did the Interbase port myself at Borland's Scotts Valley HQ. N Of couse I could have been lied to by all those that worked there, but I doubt it.    --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) 
 San Francisco      Syltrem wrote: > M > >> Interesting thing is Interbase, like Oracle, was first written using VMS  > as the > >> base platform!  >  > True? = > Is there anywhere on the web where I could find this said ? F > It`s not that I don't believe you, but I`d like to see an "official"L > document saying this. Kind of interesting Oracle first tought that VMS wasJ > the best-suited OS for their db... and then they migrated to go with the > flow (and the money) I guess.  >  > -- > 	 > Syltrem K > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) : > To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address > G > "Don Sykes" <annonymous@pacbell.net> a crit dans le message de news: " > 3DE26ADE.E1040CE1@pacbell.net...I > > Borland open sourced its Interbase a few years ago. I ported the last 	 > version K > > (4.0) circa 97, but that was before it was open sourced. Interbase is a  > big dbN > > with a small footprint. It supports all the standard stuff: client/server,% > > triggers, sql precomps, etc, etc. J > > As was metioned in the PostgreSQL message, fork was one of the biggest > issues. I L > > had to work around it. Actually, the biggest issue for me was making all > the ' > > various QA scripts work as on Unix. L > > Interesting thing is Interbase, like Oracle, was first written using VMS > as the > > base platform!J > > There is a ng (borland.public.interbase.opensource) if anyone wants to	 > take on  > > this for free.4 > > Also, Ann Harrison (an old vms'er) has a website! > (http://www.ibphoenix.com) with : > > all the info on other platforms that have been ported. > >  > >  > > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > > >  > > > Hello, > > > L > > > I know this has been brought up before, but I didn't follow the thread > > > at the time. > > > A > > > What are the options/opinions of a "free" database for VMS?  > > > N > > > I went out and looked as MySQL... But there's isn't a VMS port for it. I1 > > > downloaded it anyway... Maybe I'll port it.  > > >  > > > Thanks in advance, > > >  > > > Lyndon > > >  > > > --M > > > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my  > > > employer.  > > > N > > > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't
 > > > have" > > > to look at the horse's butt. > >  > >  > > -- > >  > > Have VMS. Will Travel. > > Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)  > > San Francisco    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:01:31 GMT $ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: Database for VMS 8 Message-ID: <00A1782C.C418DCB9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <_%vE9.19196$H67.86918@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:L >>> Interesting thing is Interbase, like Oracle, was first written using VMS >as the  >>> base platform! >  >True?< >Is there anywhere on the web where I could find this said ?E >It`s not that I don't believe you, but I`d like to see an "official" K >document saying this. Kind of interesting Oracle first tought that VMS was I >the best-suited OS for their db... and then they migrated to go with the  >flow (and the money) I guess. >   O I can't answer the actual question ('official source for this information') but ) here's my understanding of what happened.   J Jim Starkey (Datatrieve architect) did a design for Rdb that (I'm a littleM unclear on this point) got used for Rdb/Eln (the lightweight version for the  F VAX/ELN product) but lost out and wasn't used for the VMS Rdb product.  I He founded a new company (Groton Database Systems) and designed a closely I related multiplatform database (initially called GDS/Galaxy) which ran on H various Unix systems, VMS, and (eventually) NT.  (This was that late-80sI timeframe when there were dozens and dozens of  different Unix systems on J the market, before it shook down to a few major ones plus a whole bunch ofG Linux and xBSD distros.) GDS changed the name of Galaxy to Interbase to I better reflect the cross-platform nature of the product, then changed the K name of the company, then sold the company to Borland (which was trying to  F get into enterprise markets because Microsoft was kicking its butt in G consumer markets).  Somehow the Paradox/Interbase synergy didn't work.  K Finally Borland agreed to make Interbase open source (apparently in lieu of " paying a large development staff).  I So: original design was for VAX, for sure, but I can't speak for what the 9 development platform for Interbase proper was originally.   F -- Alan  (who asked Starkey about GDS/Galaxy at a Wombat Magic sessionF once, and heard more about what happened to it at Borland from a staffF member I ran into at a contra dance, but has no official knowledge of  anything to do with this.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:00:15 -0600 7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com>  Subject: Re: Database for VMS G Message-ID: <craigberry-156EC7.23001424112002@news.directvinternet.com>   . In article <3DDFA556.10FB5163@compuserve.com>,0  Graham Burley <100625.30@compuserve.com> wrote:  F > I got far enough with PostgreSQL 7.2.1 to bring up the server on VMSD > and be able to connect a client from linux, but it quickly blew up > on the regression tests.   Very impressive nevertheless.   F > Hopefully the COE related work will deliver a fork (and semaphores?)/ > that makes a PostgreSQL port more acheivable.    Indeed.   > > MySQL uses Posix threads so it may be a more realistic port.  C And apparently is already underway as someone recently posted here.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 13:21:10 -0800' From: dennisb@wvhmhc.org (Dennis Baker) 1 Subject: Directory and Copy with un-expired files < Message-ID: <6f29699e.0211251321.24a4c62@posting.google.com>  A We keep an on-line backup of user files using a DCL command file. O Every night, the contents of user directories are compared against the contents N of this on-line backup.  If no on-line backup of a current file exists, a fileO is created there.  If an on-line backup exists and backup/compare indicates the N current file doesn't match the on-line backup, a new version is created in theI on-line backup.  This way, we can restore older versions without going to M tapes, and we generally have lots of versions to choose from.  The last phase J of the job is "mark_for_death", where all versions of files in the on-lineN backup that no longer have a corresponding current file get an expiration dateK set to sometime in the future, like a year and a half.  I call this putting K them on death row.  If we don't need the space, we can keep these files out N there and if somebody recreates the original file, the program will remove theL expiration dates of the files in the on-line backup and all the old versionsL will still be available.  If we need the space, we can purge/keep files thatN have expired before a given date, usually today.  You can see what is on death; row with an expiration date of 1-jan-2002 or later by using   & directory/date=expired/sin=1-jan-2002    and can copy using  1 copy source:*.* target:*.*/expired/sin=1-jan-2002   G The problem is, I want to copy the latest version of all the files in a M particular directory but only those that have NO expiration date.  How do you   : (1) get a directory of all files with no expiration dates?' (2) copy files with no expiration date?   B In my command file, I use f$fileattributes(, "EDT") and it returnsM "17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00".  dir/date=expire/sin=17-nov-1858 lists everything, - but adding /before=19-nov-1858 lists nothing.   M This seems like such a simple problem, but I can find no solution, other than I restoring the whole directory, then deleting those that are expired using I del/expired/sin=1-jan-1990, or most any date for that matter.  Any ideas?    Dennis Baker   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:50:30 GMT & From: Curtis Rempel <curtis@telus.net>Y Subject: Re: Exam 010-627 (HSx80 Solutions for OpenVMS): read this beforeyouwrite  it you 8 Message-ID: <qYaE9.7735$hu.807610@news2.telusplanet.net>   David J. Dachtera wrote:  D >>I'll update when I hear something back, but I think the wheels areD >>probably going pretty slow on this... I have a feeling the biggestB >>hurdle to overcome will be in them understanding that there is a) >>difference betweeen VMS and Windows :-(  >  > G > From what I've read elsewhere, the current greatest hurdle is getting = > teh HP-ers to distinguish between "OpenVMS" and "OpenView".  >  > I >>Fortunately though, Mark Gorham is aware of the matter and he has asked = >>another individual to look into this matter.   Thanks Mark!  >  > J > You might wish o express your thanx to him personally. If you don't knowJ > how to guess his e-mail address, e-mail me privately. How to de-mung the% > reply-to address should be obvious.  >   D Yup, I've already been in email contact with Mark about it and some < other specifics not mentioned here, and expressed my thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:54:21 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Exam 010-627 (HSx80 Solutions for OpenVMS): read this beforeyouwrite it youw / Message-ID: <3DE14A8C.B1B870E8@vl.videotron.ca>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote:G > From what I've read elsewhere, the current greatest hurdle is getting = > teh HP-ers to distinguish between "OpenVMS" and "OpenView".   N One more reason to remove the unwanted "open" from VMS and return to VMS' real  name, the one used by customers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:30:18 +1030 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> I Subject: FOLLOWUP: DECW$XFS (X font service) - anyone successfully using? 3 Message-ID: <arrlqa$8kg$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>   J Didn't manage to crack this one before upgrades over the weekend; VMS 7.3 L to 7.3-1 (+ECOs) TCP/IP 5.1 to 5.3 (+ECO).  Font servers now seem to behave D themselves (but for how long I guess is the question).  One private 3 correspondent informed me of the FSLSFONTS utility.   )    $ xflsfonts == "$sys$system:fslsfonts" "    $ xflsfonts -server system:71006    -adobe-courier-bold-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1<    -adobe-courier-bold-o-normal--10-100-75-75-m-60-iso8859-1=    -adobe-courier-bold-o-normal--11-80-100-100-m-60-iso8859-1 <    -adobe-courier-bold-o-normal--12-120-75-75-m-70-iso8859-1>    -adobe-courier-bold-o-normal--14-100-100-100-m-90-iso8859-1    .    .    .    rk16     rk24     variable   # This might be a useful basic check. - Pity the FSINFO utility wasn't there as well.    Mark Daniel wrote:  J > I've been asked to look into why font services from our VMS systems seemD > to provide intermittent service at best.  Primary use is to supplyI > DECW-specific fonts to some X-terms and PC X display servers.  We start I > it during system DECW startup and the process DECW$XFS is present where H > it should be.  There is nothing in the SYS$MANAGER:DECW$FS-ERRORS.LOG.J > If I telnet to port 7100 sometimes I can type a few characters before itG > disconnects (no output) sometimes it disconnects immediately.  I have H > tried various configuration file items based in the XFS man page (some- > of which cause the DECW$XFS.EXE to ACCVIO).  > 6 > Is the DECW font server daemon congenitally useless? > K > If not, is there some technique or tool I can use to diagnose this issue?  >  > AATIA.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 12:57:44 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) ( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....= Message-ID: <8a646952.0211251257.2a936488@posting.google.com>   z "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<F86DB227673F0C2B.B3DFA56007275969.82A6D33CED452EDA@lp.airnews.net>...N > It's my understanding that an ES4x is limited to two Galaxy instances... oneG > per PCI bus..... any idea how many instances one can run on the ES80? / > Hopefully the restriction is now more like 4?    Hal,  < This is just a reminder, Galaxy will not be supported on the VMS-Itanium configuration.   Daryl Jones    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:58:04 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>( Subject: RE: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....0 Message-ID: <01C2948A.B0419180@sulfer.icius.com>  F WHAT!!!! We'll /need/ Galaxy sized systems just to keep up if we're on Itanic!    Shane    -----Original Message-----) From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net , [mailto:jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net]( Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 12:58 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....    . "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote in messageH news:<F86DB227673F0C2B.B3DFA56007275969.82A6D33CED452EDA@lp.airnews.net> ..N > It's my understanding that an ES4x is limited to two Galaxy instances... oneG > per PCI bus..... any idea how many instances one can run on the ES80? / > Hopefully the restriction is now more like 4?    Hal,  < This is just a reminder, Galaxy will not be supported on the VMS-Itanium configuration.   Daryl Jones    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:14:10 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....' Message-ID: <3DE2A0B2.29202300@aaa.com>   = Hm, from the PPT file, it isn't clear if it's the GCM client, - the GCM server or both that will run on IA64.   < It *could* be that you can use a IA64 GCM *client* to manage1 an Alpha GCM *server* on a Alpha Galaxy server...    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Rob Young wrote: > D > The reason I ask, is slide 30 of the latest roadmaps clearly showsH > the Galaxy Configuration Manager being on Itanium and Alpha (H1 2004). > D > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:18:34 -0500 # From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> $ Subject: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....O Message-ID: <F86DB227673F0C2B.B3DFA56007275969.82A6D33CED452EDA@lp.airnews.net>   L It's my understanding that an ES4x is limited to two Galaxy instances... oneE per PCI bus..... any idea how many instances one can run on the ES80? - Hopefully the restriction is now more like 4?    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 17:36:50 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....3 Message-ID: <dmPMWb$lCZnA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3DE2A0B2.29202300@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: ? > Hm, from the PPT file, it isn't clear if it's the GCM client, / > the GCM server or both that will run on IA64.  > > > It *could* be that you can use a IA64 GCM *client* to manage3 > an Alpha GCM *server* on a Alpha Galaxy server...  >   3 	Could be.  But that certainly wouldn't make sense. 	 	Besides:   X http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OpenVMS_clusters_to_Itanium_WP.pdf  . 	OpenVMS Clusters move to Itanium Architecture  H Subsequent production releases Larger configurations. Support for GalaxyJ configurations. Support for FDDI and ATM for cluster (SCS) communications.G Possibility of support for VAX systems, based on customer requirements.   B 	Now maybe you would care to read "client" into that.  I doubt it.  0 	Things that won't be coming to Itanium include:  O OpenVMS Cluster software supports three proprietary interconnects that will not C be ported: DSSI (DIGITAL Systems Storage Interconnect), CI (Cluster " Interconnect), and Memory Channel.  ! 	I don't see Galaxy in that list.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:18:11 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....J Message-ID: <rdeininger-2411022218120001@1cust62.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  
 In articleI <F86DB227673F0C2B.B3DFA56007275969.82A6D33CED452EDA@lp.airnews.net>, "Hal  Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote:   M >It's my understanding that an ES4x is limited to two Galaxy instances... one F >per PCI bus..... any idea how many instances one can run on the ES80?. >Hopefully the restriction is now more like 4?    First, the older ES4x systems...  ! ES40 supports 2 Galaxy instances.   > ES45 does not support Galaxy at all (except for the file-based' pseudo-galaxy that all alphas support).   5 As for the new EV7 systems, ES47, ES80, and GS1280...   E I haven't seen the Galaxy configuration rules yet.  But these systems F won't support partitions and Galaxy until (roughly) a few months after first ship.   E I expect ES80 will either support 1 instance per 2-processor building < block, or maybe 1 instance per processor.  But I'm guessing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:33:18 -0500 ! From: kuff@comcast.net (Cable NJ) ( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....O Message-ID: <6452A909A68B0955.92301BBF754502A9.27FA1D54AB5DCAB4@lp.airnews.net>   J In article <rdeininger-2411022218120001@1cust62.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>,3 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:    > In articleK > <F86DB227673F0C2B.B3DFA56007275969.82A6D33CED452EDA@lp.airnews.net>, "Hal ! > Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote:  > O > >It's my understanding that an ES4x is limited to two Galaxy instances... one H > >per PCI bus..... any idea how many instances one can run on the ES80?0 > >Hopefully the restriction is now more like 4? > " > First, the older ES4x systems... > # > ES40 supports 2 Galaxy instances.  > @ > ES45 does not support Galaxy at all (except for the file-based) > pseudo-galaxy that all alphas support).  > 7 > As for the new EV7 systems, ES47, ES80, and GS1280...  > G > I haven't seen the Galaxy configuration rules yet.  But these systems H > won't support partitions and Galaxy until (roughly) a few months after
 > first ship.  > G > I expect ES80 will either support 1 instance per 2-processor building > > block, or maybe 1 instance per processor.  But I'm guessing.  J What do you mean (except for the file-based> pseudo-galaxy that all alphas	 support)?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:06:34 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2511020806340001@1cust108.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   
 In articleD <6452A909A68B0955.92301BBF754502A9.27FA1D54AB5DCAB4@lp.airnews.net>," kuff@comcast.net (Cable NJ) wrote:  K >In article <rdeininger-2411022218120001@1cust62.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, 4 >rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote: >  ... A >> ES45 does not support Galaxy at all (except for the file-based * >> pseudo-galaxy that all alphas support). ...  > K >What do you mean (except for the file-based> pseudo-galaxy that all alphas 
 >support)?  J Real Galaxy functionality depends on the firmware to describe the hardwareH and assist in migrating stuff between instances.  Older systems (and the6 ES45, which isn't old) don't have the needed firmware.  H The "fake" Galaxy method uses a configuration file to describe a single,I static instance to the OS.  It allows most of the Galaxy functionality ineG the OS to work.  It's intended to make it easier to test Galaxy-capable 	 software.0  = See the manual "OpenVMS Alpha Partitioning and Galaxy Guide":y  ; http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6512/6512PRO.HTMe   See chapter 10 in particular.E  I I just looked at the 7.3-1 version of this manual for the first time, andEF the HTML version is ruined.  The formatting is horrible, and the wholeJ manual is crammed into a single huge file.  You might like the PDF version better:E  S http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/OVMS_731_GALAXY_GD.PDFe   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Nov 02 23:00:27 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) $ Subject: Re: Get owner info from UAF) Message-ID: <8vkGFQidcIgP@elias.decus.ch>D  [ In article <ars19j$1p5$1@newshost.mot.com>, "Fred Jiang" <r54123@email.sps.mot.com> writes:e > Hello,4 > I can I get the password of users from sysuaf.dat?4 > Anybody know the record format in fiel sysuaf.dat?	 > Thanks!n >    1. You can't. ( 2. I know the format. Thanks for asking. -- r
 Paul Sture Switzerlandl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:43:16 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o$ Subject: Re: Get owner info from UAF' Message-ID: <3DE19C54.9D6655A6@fsi.net>e   Fred Jiang wrote:p >  > Hello,4 > I can I get the password of users from sysuaf.dat?  E You can get he HASHED password, yes. The hashing algorithm is one-way  only, and cannot be reversed.e  4 > Anybody know the record format in fiel sysuaf.dat?   See STARLET.MLB.   -- a David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:11:08 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org$ Subject: Re: Get owner info from UAF3 Message-ID: <RNfFknad8KjW@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  Q In article <00A17657.AC7F90D6.5@decus.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes: / > John Briggs <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote:e > ? >> In article <819f1cc4.0211210955.c6a6de3@posting.google.com>,i& > daveparboo@hotmail.com (DXP) writes:8 >> > $ owner = f$edit(f$extract(85, 31, record), "trim") >> ...6 >> > Well, if p1 .eqs. plebby_user then no problem....H >> > However, if p1 .eqs. super_user_with_loads_of_privs_and_identifiersF >> > then I get the message, "%DCL-W-BUFOVF, command buffer overflow -( >> > shorten expression or command line" >> >H >> > Now, I am aware of the 1024k symbol buffer size limit, but how do I/ >> > get the info from this record that I need.r >>? >> If I remember correctly, lexical functions such as f$extractt@ >> can only deal with arguments that are 256 characters long (or@ >> some such value -- the exact limits for various limits change= >> from release to release.  And your SYSUAF record is longerp >> than the limit. >>8 >> The only ideas I can come up with are pretty baroque: >>9 >> Data reduce SYSUAF using SORT with a /SPECICATION file  >>A >> Use WRITE /SYMBOL to put your selected record back into a diskr? >> file and then CONVERT /TRUNCATE that to get it down to size.m >>% >> Write a program.  (Oh, the shame!)  >> >> John Briggs >  > F > Just a few lines of DCL code I extracted from a posting to this news7 > group (don't remember when or who was the sender) ...-  F If you had read the message you responded to, you would have seen some very similar syntax.   > $ OPEN /READ uaf sysuaf.dat.& > $ READ /END=no_more_records uaf line > $!5 > $ username = F$EDIT(F$EXTRACT(4, 32, line), "TRIM")t  B But if the "line" symbol line is longer than about 512 characters,! you get the following diagnostic:.  K %DCL-W-BUFOVF, command buffer overflow - shorten expression or command lineh  E And if you had read the message you responded to, you would have seeno that very error message.  A Since the UAF record format is variable, it is possible to read ao< line from the UAF into a symbol that exceeds 512 characters.  8 That is what I believe has happened in the case at hand.  = It is easy to write DCL to read and extract from the UAF.  It,A is hard to write DCL to read and extract from the UAF in the faced of long records in the UAF.a   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:56:28 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org$ Subject: Re: Get owner info from UAF3 Message-ID: <$KN04OZgK2Lg@eisner.encompasserve.org>H  [ In article <ars19j$1p5$1@newshost.mot.com>, "Fred Jiang" <r54123@email.sps.mot.com> writes:N4 > I can I get the password of users from sysuaf.dat?4 > Anybody know the record format in fiel sysuaf.dat?  - Look at module $UAFDEF in SYS$LIBRARY:LIB.MLB   ) $ LIB/EXTRACT=$UAFDEF SYS$LIBRARY:LIB.MLBO $ TYPE /PAGE LIB.MAR  K Look at UAF$Q_PWD, UAF$Q_PWD2, UAF$W_SALT, UAF$B_ENCRYPT and UAF$B_ENCRYPT2   8 The password is subjected to a one way hash function and? encoded in a binary quadword along with a 2 byte salt and a onee6 byte code identifying the hash function that was used.  ? If you know nothing about password file technology, a "salt" isGC added to the password before the one way hash and stored along withnG the password in the password file.  Its function is to make precomputed.C dictionary attacks more difficult.  Instead of being able to make aIB dictionary with the encrypted versions of "secret", "password" andD "manager" and all the other likely VMS passwords, the attacker would@ need to store one dictionary entry for each possible salt value.7 That multiplies his memory requirements by 65536 times.r  B The system can test a proffered password by doing the same one way? hash with the same salt to see if the result matches the stored 	 quadword.I  ? Going back the other way to get the original plaintext passwordo@ for use with, for instance, a CHAP implementation is impractical
 by design.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:32:00 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>= Subject: Gigabit Ethernet DEGPA-TA as second network problems ) Message-ID: <3DE21840.B55A398A@127.0.0.1>'  H I'm either missing something glaringly obvious or I have a real problem.  A Standalone (non clustered) DS20E 2 CPU, VMS 7.3-1, TCPIP 5.3, all 
 current ECOs.e8 (FWIW, DECnet phase IV is also configured on both cards)  E There is a graphics combo card DEPVD-AA installed providing the otheri$ network connection. This works fine.  ? Configured both cards, different IP addresses and names for DNS5 purposes. Same domain.  D The gigabit card is currently only in a 100 Mb capable port for now,9 it'll be attached to a gigabit when available (not soon).R  F There are no problems at all with the 100 Mb connection into the combo card (EIA0).  E However, the gigabit (EWA0) does not appear to form a connection witheD the network. The 100 Mb indicator comes on, so the speed is correct,/ however at console it gives the wrong messages:d  ! %EIA0, FastFD mode set by consolee0 %EIA0, Full Duplex 100BaseTX connection selected9 %EWA0, Link state change - link up: 100 mbit, half duplexD> %EWA0, Link set to auto-negotiate 10/100 mbit/sec, full-duplex- %EWA0, Link set to 1000 mbit/sec, full-duplexa  D The last line is surely erroneous. This is despite having the DEFINEH EWA0 as /FULL /NOAUTO in LANCP. (On console, setting EWA0_MODE to FASTFD0 has no effect, the console variable 'vanishes').  = In LANCP, once the system is booted, the display looks right:g   LANCP> sho dev ewa0/char  s Device Characteristics EWA0:'                   Value  Characteristicp'                   -----  --------------i+                    1500  Device buffer sizee(                  Normal  Controller mode/                External  Internal loopback modew-       ----obscured----   Hardware LAN addresse/                          Multicast address listu-                 CSMA/CD  Communication mediumn,       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address0                     128  Minimum receive buffers0                     256  Maximum receive buffers+                     Yes  Full duplex enableo0                     Yes  Full duplex operational(             TwistedPair  Line media type*                     100  Line speed (mbps)    B Troubleshooting, I've proved by swapping that the cables and portsC presented from the network are functioning perfectly. I swapped theiA gigabit card into another slot and there is  no difference (otheriH devices work fine in the slot). Activity light flicks very occasionally,H much less than if the lead is swapped into the working 100Mb combo card.F (I'm not able to remove the combo card network as I'd lose the console in this situation)  F So I suspected a faulty gigabit card, went through Compaq (HP) SupportA with my diagnosis, they agreed and very efficiently I have to sayu arranged swap of the card.  G Installed new card, same behaviour. Lights on 100 Mb correctly, howeveraA still will not contact the network. Again swapped cables and slote location, no difference.  H SDA and SHOW LAN /COU only shows there is low activity on this card, but otherwise normal.   H I don't believe I can be so unlucky as to have two faulty gigabit cards,E so has anyone any suggestions? Something I've missed? Is the DEGPA-TAF$ unhappy at 100 Mb and needs gigabit?G Anyone successfully using a DEGPA-TA at gigabit or 100Mb with 7.3-1 c/w-
 TCPIP 5.3?   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesa nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:58:17 -0500l& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>A Subject: Re: Gigabit Ethernet DEGPA-TA as second network problemsY8 Message-ID: <f1b4uu0hb9hb3tcdvj07b8nvp28qeto5t2@4ax.com>  M On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:32:00 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   " >%EIA0, FastFD mode set by console1 >%EIA0, Full Duplex 100BaseTX connection selectedt: >%EWA0, Link state change - link up: 100 mbit, half duplex? >%EWA0, Link set to auto-negotiate 10/100 mbit/sec, full-duplex . >%EWA0, Link set to 1000 mbit/sec, full-duplex >OE >The last line is surely erroneous. This is despite having the DEFINEtI >EWA0 as /FULL /NOAUTO in LANCP. (On console, setting EWA0_MODE to FASTFDe1 >has no effect, the console variable 'vanishes').s  P Nic, I found this in an ECO summary article referencing the DEGPA-TA controller:  E      +  Attempts to add a Gigabit Ethernet node to an OpenVMS ClusteroC         over a Gigabit Ethernet switch will fail if the switch does0D         not support autonegotiation.  The DEGPA enables autonegotia-F         tion by default, but not all Gigabit Ethernet switches supportD         autonegotiation.  The Gigaswitch made by Cabletron does not.G         Furthermore, the messages that are displayed may be misleading.rF         For example, if the node is being added via CLUSTER_CONFIG.COMI         and the option to install a local page and swap disk is selected,nD         the problem may look like a disk-serving  problem.  The nodeD         running CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM displays the message "waiting forE         <nodename> to boot," while the booting node displays "waitingeG         to tune system." The list of available disks is never displayedfG         because of a missing network path.  The network path is missingsE         because of the autonegotiation mismatch between the DEGPA andd         the switch.y           To avoid this problem:  F           *  Perform a conversational boot when first booting the node              into the cluster.  E           *  Set the new node's SYSGEN LAN_FLAGS parameter to a value ;              of 32 to disable autonegotiation on the DEGPA.   I Have you set the value in LAN_FLAGS in SYSGEN to disable autonegotiation?tI -------------------------------------------------------------------------wI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comwI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only).I -------------------------------------------------------------------------o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:44:26 +0000t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>A Subject: Re: Gigabit Ethernet DEGPA-TA as second network problemsl) Message-ID: <3DE2455A.6A6A1CB5@127.0.0.1>u   David M Smith wrote: > O > On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:32:00 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:e  G >           *  Set the new node's SYSGEN LAN_FLAGS parameter to a value'= >              of 32 to disable autonegotiation on the DEGPA.  > K > Have you set the value in LAN_FLAGS in SYSGEN to disable autonegotiation?   H (To maintain the trail for thread watchers, even though we speak daily!)  D This worked in that it corrected what I hoped to see at the console:  4 %EWA0, Autonegotiation disabled per SYSGEN parameter LAN_FLAGS                    %EIA0, FastFD mode set by 6 console                                               ' %EIA0, Full Duplex 100BaseTX connection2( selected                                = %EWA0, Link state change - link up: 100 mbit, full duplex    g  H However the IP address on the gigabit card still refuses to respond. :-(  6 $ TCPIP SHOW INTER/FULL (extract and addresses hidden)   ...c Interface: WE0D    IP_Addr: n.n.n.n      NETWRK: 255.255.254.0     BRDCST: n.n.n.255E                        Ethernet_Addr: AA-00-hh-hh-hh-hh    MTU:  1500u$      Flags: UP BRDCST RUN MCAST SMPX5                                   RECEIVE        SENDi5    Packets                             11           1 5      Errors                             0           0e)    Collisions:                          0    $    Still baffled.   -- o? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesf nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 04:25:14 GMTe3 From: "Hope and Love" <hopeandlove2002@hotmail.com>h  Subject: Heartfelt Appologies!!!= Message-ID: <KChE9.891970$v53.32797776@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>w    I would like to appologize to all the readers and anybody else affected by my indescretions, I felt that i was advertising a product that I know works and signed up as an affiliate to promote this product   so I listed it in the individual newsgroups with the URL I did not realize I was spamming, as I am an idividual and putting it in groups 1 at a time....well I thought wrong and ticked off a lot of people!!  For this I am sorry. The company that Im an affiliate for in did not have any knowledge of what I did, and as soon as they found out ordered me to stop immediatly..which I did and it will not happen againt|  I do hope that You will accept My appologies and not hold this against myself or the company whose product I was promoting.  a  Mikeg   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:58:41 -0000n! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>r6 Subject: Re: I give up, need Solaris for VMS jobs now./ Message-ID: <uu5e9h8qp4jq35@corp.supernews.com>e  8 Daryl Jones <jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net> wrote:B :> With more than 500 Sybase-specific stored procedures to rewriteA :> for Oracle, and then to certify, it was easier to move to AIX.p   : Z,: : It sounds like a short term fix for a long term problem!  * Aren't most corporate decisions just that?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:53:16 -0800 * From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org2 Message-ID: <EDKdnWaBA82xs3ygXTWc2Q@mpowercom.net>  > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message4 news:0iUD9.33655$8D.1121909@twister.austin.rr.com...E >    Technical performance: Fibre-optic cables are immune to externalt
 >    tapping.  > F A decade ago those who watched the raw Gulf War briefings directly offG satellite feeds were treated to an off-hours press Q&A by a junior U.S.tK officer in Riyadh who blithely admitted Ranger squads were operating in theaE outskirts of Baghdad, digging up fiber optic cables and tapping IraqiaK communications.  Oddly this interview never made it to CNN.  And apparentlyjF the reporters didn't realize the significance of the statement either.J However, I'm sure the remark did not go unnoticed in GRU headquarters, andE the NSA saw to it the same officer is now in charge of onsite iceberga inspections in the Aleutians.t  I One advantage of satellites: careless remarks are heard halfway round the  world at the speed of light.     Jack Peacock   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Nov 02 23:29:39 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)l2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org) Message-ID: <cMp3H0DpCFxr@elias.decus.ch>w  W In article <uu39hvlcialg62@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:a   <snip>  tL > And letting your competitors beat you isn't stupid?  If your products costH > twice as much as your competitors, you'll be laying people off anyway. > B Well, I've seen that happen. The trouble is that six months to twoG years later, the competitors have seen you out of business, yet doubled E their price for inferior goods, and don't give decent service either.s --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:40:25 -0600x1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org' Message-ID: <3DE19BA9.DBF67AB9@fsi.net>k   John Vottero wrote:n > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3DE102F0.78477D91@fsi.net...t > > Jerry Leslie wrote:t > > > [extensive snippage] > > L > > Eventually, the world will run out of "third-world" countries to exploitK > > like this. So, even though it won't be in our lifetimes, ultimately the  > > strategy must fail.s > >m > > It is unavoidable. > >/ > M > You're right that we will eventually run out of third world countries but IrK > wouldn't call that a failure.  We'll run out because they will all be 1stlE > world countries.  Exporting jobs isn't evil, it's how we spread ourm
 > prosperity.r  G I doubt the lay-off victims at the unemployment office would agree with/ that.a  > By my value set, exporting jobs is one of the ultimate evils.   B Leaving your consumer base in ruins while expecting your new-foundH prosperity to shore up the largely consumer-driven economy is the height
 of stupidity.-   --   David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/D   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:23:57 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>y2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org' Message-ID: <3DE2DB3D.FB8CDF97@fsi.net>e   John Vottero wrote:e > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3DE19BA9.DBF67AB9@fsi.net...v > > John Vottero wrote:e > > >hB > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message' > > > news:3DE102F0.78477D91@fsi.net...  > > > > Jerry Leslie wrote:x > > > > > [extensive snippage] > > > >rH > > > > Eventually, the world will run out of "third-world" countries to	 > exploit-K > > > > like this. So, even though it won't be in our lifetimes, ultimatelym > the( > > > > strategy must fail.c > > > >C > > > > It is unavoidable. > > > >D > > >6K > > > You're right that we will eventually run out of third world countriese > but IsK > > > wouldn't call that a failure.  We'll run out because they will all beo > 1staI > > > world countries.  Exporting jobs isn't evil, it's how we spread ourr > > > prosperity.  > > K > > I doubt the lay-off victims at the unemployment office would agree withh	 > > that.  > >dA > > By my value set, exporting jobs is one of the ultimate evils.n > F > When does it become evil, when they're exported out of the country?   $ Any place outside of the US economy.   > HowoK > about if they're exported to another state?  Or "exported" to a computer?s  F Don't know too many computers that botch up a customer service call as well as a human can.  ? > The people in the unemployment office don't like any of them.  >  > > F > > Leaving your consumer base in ruins while expecting your new-foundL > > prosperity to shore up the largely consumer-driven economy is the height > > of stupidity.x > L > And letting your competitors beat you isn't stupid?  If your products costH > twice as much as your competitors, you'll be laying people off anyway.  A Depends. The records still show that folks are willing to pay fornB quality over quantity, at least in some areas outside of VMS-land.  0 ...but I was talking about the economy as whole.  H While driving past "office parks" full of multi-story buildings one day,G my brother asked the question: "Just how many paper shufflers DOES thisc country need?"  H I might add to that, "Is there a college level class on paper shuffling?G ...and is there someplace where I can sign up to take a paper shufflingtD class on-line, and get my paper shuffling degree? (After all, VMS is dead, y'know)."O  E When this country's major export is jobs, there's something seriously > wrong. Can you say, "trade deficit"? Sure , I knew ya could...  F The "good news" is that I just turned 48 on 14-Nov. That means there'sE fewer years ahead of me than behind. When the world goes to hell in a/F hand bag, I'll be worm food and VMS will be ancient history. Then, theF biz school geniuses can do as they damned well please and I won't have to give a shit.    -- u David J. Dachtera@ dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:22:17 -0800'$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>2 Subject: RE: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org0 Message-ID: <01C294AF.9834F3F0@sulfer.icius.com>  C The evil takes place at the other end, in my opinion. Check out ther@ working conditions. Sub-survival wages (so of course, overtime),; unprotected, constant exposure to hazardous materials, etc:e  4 http://www.bayarea.com/mld/siliconvalley/4597519.htm   Shaneo   John Vottero wrote:G > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3DE19BA9.DBF67AB9@fsi.net...a > > John Vottero wrote:  > > >eB > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message' > > > news:3DE102F0.78477D91@fsi.net...y > > > > Jerry Leslie wrote:- > > > > > [extensive snippage] > > > >,H > > > > Eventually, the world will run out of "third-world" countries to	 > exploit K > > > > like this. So, even though it won't be in our lifetimes, ultimately  > theu > > > > strategy must fail.  > > > >F > > > > It is unavoidable. > > > >c > > >jK > > > You're right that we will eventually run out of third world countries  > but I K > > > wouldn't call that a failure.  We'll run out because they will all be: > 1stmI > > > world countries.  Exporting jobs isn't evil, it's how we spread ourP > > > prosperity.  > >eK > > I doubt the lay-off victims at the unemployment office would agree with 	 > > that.d > >rA > > By my value set, exporting jobs is one of the ultimate evils.- > F > When does it become evil, when they're exported out of the country?   $ Any place outside of the US economy.   > How:K > about if they're exported to another state?  Or "exported" to a computer?$  F Don't know too many computers that botch up a customer service call as well as a human can.  ? > The people in the unemployment office don't like any of them.r >  > >sF > > Leaving your consumer base in ruins while expecting your new-foundL > > prosperity to shore up the largely consumer-driven economy is the height > > of stupidity.t > L > And letting your competitors beat you isn't stupid?  If your products costH > twice as much as your competitors, you'll be laying people off anyway.  A Depends. The records still show that folks are willing to pay for8B quality over quantity, at least in some areas outside of VMS-land.  / ..but I was talking about the economy as whole.-  H While driving past "office parks" full of multi-story buildings one day,G my brother asked the question: "Just how many paper shufflers DOES thisl country need?"  H I might add to that, "Is there a college level class on paper shuffling?F ..and is there someplace where I can sign up to take a paper shufflingD class on-line, and get my paper shuffling degree? (After all, VMS is dead, y'know)."   E When this country's major export is jobs, there's something seriously > wrong. Can you say, "trade deficit"? Sure , I knew ya could...  F The "good news" is that I just turned 48 on 14-Nov. That means there'sE fewer years ahead of me than behind. When the world goes to hell in aeF hand bag, I'll be worm food and VMS will be ancient history. Then, theF biz school geniuses can do as they damned well please and I won't have to give a shit.r   -- m David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:49:20 -0600v1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>x2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org' Message-ID: <3DE2E130.DC640550@fsi.net>l   John Vottero wrote:t > @ > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message6 > news:65jE9.45912$8D.1371372@twister.austin.rr.com...( > > John Vottero (John@mvpsi.com) wrote:B > > : "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message' > > : news:3DE102F0.78477D91@fsi.net...  > > : > Jerry Leslie wrote:  > > : > > [extensive snippage] > > : >tH > > : > Eventually, the world will run out of "third-world" countries to	 > exploit-K > > : > like this. So, even though it won't be in our lifetimes, ultimatelym > theu > > : > strategy must fail.n > > : >  > > : > It is unavoidable. > > : >1 > > :eK > > : You're right that we will eventually run out of third world countries J > > : but I wouldn't call that a failure.  We'll run out because they will! > > : all be 1st world countries.: > > :o > >rL > > That is NOT the case for workers living in dictatorships, or under other > > abusive conditions; e.g.:l > >n > J > Certainly there are many oppressed people in the world but we won't help) > them by withholding job opportunities. 5  H Must we sacrifice our own workforce so they can have one? ...or is there) an equitable way for the two to co-exist?.  % > Instead of trying to erect barriersr( > that prevent jobs from leaving the US,  % Whole-heartedly disagree. Dead wrong.i    > we should be trying to enforce > standards for workers rights,o  > What about our own people? Is not our loyalty first to our own countrymen?    > environmental controls  B What about here at home? Why not provide opportunities for our own1 people, our own parents, siblings, progeny, ... ?.   > and human rights.   H Maybe we need a world-wide government to whom all rulers must answer for their crimes ... ? n   > WeL > shouldn't erect trade barriers to ensure that an American high school dropL > out doesn't lose their job, we should do it to ensure that a foreign childG > is able to finish high school without being forced into a sweat shop.y  2 ...and that leaves U.S. workers exactly ... where?  H Maybe we should step back for a moment, as we're mostly senior people inH our forties and later, to remember that some (many?) of our parents wereD "drop-outs" during economically disasterous times the likes of whichG this country has yet to see again (though they may not be that far away5C anymore). Some of our parents not only dropped out to support their H families, some of our fathers went off to WW-II, others to Korea, havingH never completed high school. Millions of them died, but millions more ofG them came home and took jobs that today's youth would sneer at (they'reNF so far above actual manual labor, y'know) to put us through school and@ keep us clothed, keep our heads sheltered and our bellies fed...  H Perhaps this is why "legacy" has such a negative connotation these days.D Our legacy is one of hard work, sacrifice and selfless dedication toA country, home and family. Those values hold no worth these days -r6 they're not "cool", "stimulating", "exhilarating", ...  H Can you even IMAGINE a president today getting up before the country andG saying, in the immortal words of John F. Kennedy, "...ask not what youreG country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country..."? Shit,l6 they'd laugh him right off the platform and out of DC!   -- e David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/A   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:50:51 -0600s1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org' Message-ID: <3DE2E18B.76972709@fsi.net>u   John Vottero wrote:l > @ > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message7 > news:XxvE9.63015$Kj1.2779393@twister.austin.rr.com... ( > > John Vottero (John@mvpsi.com) wrote: > > : N > > : Certainly there are many oppressed people in the world but we won't help, > > : them by withholding job opportunities. > > H > > U.S. corporations seem all too glad to export jobs to dictatorships,' > > which they prefer over democracies:1 > >8 > N > I'm not an economist but I believe that's the way it's supposed to work (notJ > that I like it).  For some strange reason, it seems that publicly tradedJ > companies have to put the interests of the shareholders above everything	 > else.     3 I guess no one told Curly... Wonder if Carly knows?u   -- e David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:50:05 GMTt$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org8 Message-ID: <00A1783B.EED47C06@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  [ In article <3DE2E130.DC640550@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:    >eI >Can you even IMAGINE a president today getting up before the country and H >saying, in the immortal words of John F. Kennedy, "...ask not what yourH >country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country..."? Shit,7 >they'd laugh him right off the platform and out of DC!   A What I particularly liked, as far as Kennedy speeches go, was hisrK announcement about the decision to go to the moon.  "We do this not becaused) it is easy, but because it is difficult."r  H I think the American people are actually very willing, if there's a goodI cause they can see the purpose of, to make quite considerable sacrifices. F They don't particularly like being told that what they ought to do forC their country, in the wake of terrorist attacks, is to go shopping.    -- AlanE   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:18:41 -0600d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org' Message-ID: <3DE2E811.5CA2E962@fsi.net>x  % winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:r > ] > In article <3DE2E130.DC640550@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e >  > >uK > >Can you even IMAGINE a president today getting up before the country and J > >saying, in the immortal words of John F. Kennedy, "...ask not what yourJ > >country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country..."? Shit,9 > >they'd laugh him right off the platform and out of DC!- > C > What I particularly liked, as far as Kennedy speeches go, was his-M > announcement about the decision to go to the moon.  "We do this not because.+ > it is easy, but because it is difficult."n > J > I think the American people are actually very willing, if there's a goodK > cause they can see the purpose of, to make quite considerable sacrifices.5  B Unfortunately, these days, the "purpose" more often than not is toC further line some fat-cat's pockets. Not many folks will get behind H that, unless, of course, the "fat cat" is Bill Gates, then, in the words of ABBA,  % We're all following a strange melody.a We're all summoned by the tune.l We're following the piper  and we dance beneath the moon  for him, and we dance beneath the moon.  H > They don't particularly like being told that what they ought to do forE > their country, in the wake of terrorist attacks, is to go shopping.   ( Few of us hesitated to do it, however...   --   David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:16:54 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org/ Message-ID: <3DE303C1.74F08330@vl.videotron.ca>N   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > Must we sacrifice our own workforce so they can have one? ...or is there+ > an equitable way for the two to co-exist?i   It is called competition.   ; Not between companies, but between cultures and philosophy.l  I And it should not be news to the USA. They spent a large part of the 20th/R century competing against communism to try to prove the superiority of capitalism.  L Capitalism was "protected" in the past due to geographical limitations, highL cost of telecom and transport. But as those barriers are dropping, folks whoL do not aspire to have a car at age 16, DVDs, large colour TVs etc cost a lot1 less in wages/benefits and produce just as much. h  L At the moment, those "cheap labour countries" are like a vacuum sucking up aM lot of work because the price difference is so great. At the moment, the onlyaH thing western societies can do is to essentially lower their standard of" living to become more competitive.  N The only hope is that eventually, the poorer nations will raise their standardJ of living, and as the gap narrows, it will allow western nations to regain some competitiveness.   L But beware: as china increases its standard of living, those fancy toys yourH kid *demands* for christmas will cost more, so you will have higher wage% demands to your employer etc etc etc.l  N Another aspect of luxury the USA has is its medical system. It may have rightsH to brag about many things, but in the end, low-tech Cuba has higher lifeH expectancy than the USA, and the USA is the world's highest cost medicalM system (in prcentage of medical expenses per gdp). While most western nationsfM have their medical costs between 10 and 15% of GDP, I think that the USA's is<N closer to 18%. This means that in the end, producing a widget in the USA meansN it costs more because the employer must disburse at least 3-5% more in medical( benefits than competing western nations.  I So while you may enjoy brand spanking new fancy medical equipment in ever,J hospital and plenty of capacity , hence no waiting lists, it does put your% nation at a competitive disadvantage._  M And when you think about it, computer industry is extremely labour intensive,aF both for programming, and systems management (if you are on windows orM LotusNOTES or SAP). When you have a large educational gap giving one nation atI technological edge, that nation need not be as competitive. BUt as otherse@ catch up and sometimes surpass it and cost less, well, they win.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:54:24 -0500f% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>s2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org/ Message-ID: <uu4hthi21ah9a1@news.supernews.com>e  > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message4 news:65jE9.45912$8D.1371372@twister.austin.rr.com...& > John Vottero (John@mvpsi.com) wrote:@ > : "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message% > : news:3DE102F0.78477D91@fsi.net...  > : > Jerry Leslie wrote:s > : > > [extensive snippage] > : >oF > : > Eventually, the world will run out of "third-world" countries to exploitaI > : > like this. So, even though it won't be in our lifetimes, ultimatelyl thee > : > strategy must fail.n > : >  > : > It is unavoidable. > : >  > :DI > : You're right that we will eventually run out of third world countries,H > : but I wouldn't call that a failure.  We'll run out because they will > : all be 1st world countries.n > :g >tJ > That is NOT the case for workers living in dictatorships, or under other > abusive conditions; e.g.:a >h  H Certainly there are many oppressed people in the world but we won't helpK them by withholding job opportunities.  Instead of trying to erect barriersoE that prevent jobs from leaving the US, we should be trying to enforcebJ standards for workers rights, environmental controls and human rights.  WeJ shouldn't erect trade barriers to ensure that an American high school dropJ out doesn't lose their job, we should do it to ensure that a foreign childE is able to finish high school without being forced into a sweat shop.r    >  o workers in Communist China: >tG >    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8254-2002May12.htmlH/ >    Worked Till They Drop (washingtonpost.com)F > H >   "SONGGANG, China -- On the night she died, Li Chunmei must have been >    exhausted..." > K >  o workers in U.S.-controlled Saipan's sweatshops, where pregnant workersF/ >    were fired if they didn't get an abortion:  >$C >    http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/saipan0331.htmlD5 >    ABCNEWS.com :  Forced Labor, Abortions in Saipan  >s >dF >    http://www.globalexchange.org/economy/econ101/sevenArguments.html6 >    : Seven Arguments for Reforming the World Economy >nB >   "1. Globalization of market forces creates greater inequality. >dH >    Over the past 30 years the globalization of the economy--led by theB >    World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and transnationalI >    corporations--has proceeded at a quickening pace. These institutionsaK >    have pressured governments to remove barriers to the cross-border flow"D >    of money and products. Also, advances in telecommunications andJ >    computer technology have made it possible for trillions of dollars inH >    finance capital to zoom around the world, 24 hours a day, searching& >    for the highest rate of interest. > B >    This globalization of market forces has greatly increased theD >    inequality in the world. Just 150 years ago there was not greatG >    inequality between the standards of living of people in the globaloD >    north and those in Africa, Asia and Latin America. But slavery,I >    colonialism and an increasingly integrated world economy transferreda( >    wealth from the south to the north. >E  F This is absurd.  150 years ago, we had a global economy.  Everyone wasL working hard just to stay alive.   It was the industrial revolution that ledJ to the inequality in the standards of living.  If we want to correct theseH inequalities, we have to help industrialize the countries that have beenL left behind.  And we have to learn from the mistakes that we made during ourB industrial revolution and work to ensure that they aren't repeated! (pollution, workers rights etc.).p  I >    Now the richest 20 percent of the world's population receives 83% ofpD >    the world's income, while the poorest 60% of the world's peopleD >    receive just 5.6% of the world's income. The richest 20% of theH >    world's population in northern industrial countries uses 70% of theH >    world's energy, 75% of the world's metals, 85% of the world's wood,K >    and 60% of the world's food. This 20% minority is also responsible forF@ >    producing about 75% of the world's environmental pollution.  K I've seen similar statistics before and it's an example of statistics beingLF twisted into supporting an argument.  Of course the richest 20% of theL worlds population uses most of the energy, metal and wood.  We're using thatL enery, metal and wood to make things which we then sell to get rich!  In theI process of building this stuff, we produce pollution.  If we're producingnC 75% of the worlds goods, we will also product 75% of the pollution.>  < >    2. Economic growth will not solve the problems we face. > G >    Defenders of the system keep reassuring us that if we can just get I >    economic growth rates high enough, these problems will be solved. WeeI >    regularly hear the refain, "a rising tide floats all boats." But fordG >    those who don't own boats or have leaky boats, a rising tide meanslK >    greater inequality between them and the more fortunate. The data shows G >    that during a period of significant growth in world trade (1960 to H >    1989), global inequality got significantly worse: the ratio betweenI >    the richest 20% and poorest 20% of the world population went from 30  >    to 1 to 59 to 1.   H It will be much easier help people build or repair boats than to try and prevent the tide from rising.h  H >    We should also remember that unrestrained growth is the ideology of >    the cancer cell.a >i >    [snip]l >aK >    Globalization-from-above is controlled by wealthy elites and driven bylE >    a hunger for more wealth and power. But there is another form ofnB >    globalization made up of grassroots alliances of human rightsB >    activists, trade unions, women's organizations, environmentalJ >    coalitions and farmers organizations. This "globalization-from-below"J >    does not get as much publicity as the elite form of globalization but# >    it is growing just as rapidly.h >oK >    This bottom-up form of globalization does not have the amount of money K >    or guns possessed by the elites but it does have moral authority. Just/J >    think about the contrast between the dominant system's focus on greed* >    and our focus on meeting human needs.  ; Agreed.  Call your congressman and demand that they supportSD "globalization-from-below".  It has to be the government because the9 corporations won't do it unless something forces them to.1  J >    This alternative vision calls for more openness and accountability byC >    institutions such as the World Bank, the IMF and transnational-J >    corporations. It calls for raising wages, health and safety standardsK >    in the third world to bring them up to first world levels, rather thanoI >    driving first world standards downward in a desperate effort to keepnJ >    capital from fleeing to lower wage areas. It calls for stewardship ofJ >    natural resources that will preserve something of the environment forK >    our grandhcildren to enjoy. It seeks to redefine self-interest so that%= >    it is more in line with the common interest of humanity.  >WI >    The choice confronting us today is which of these two global visionsr >    we prefer." >tI > Workers being literally worked to death or forced to have abortions are  > NOT acceptable.e >h > : A > : Exporting jobs isn't evil, it's how we spread our prosperity.a > :  >mC > The authors of "The Judas Economy: The Triumph of Capital and thet > Betrayal of Work": >n< >    William Wolman, former chief economist at Business Week: >    Anna Colamosca,  a former Business Week staff writer. >oC > testified before the Congressional Commission on Trade With Chinat > last June: >E# >    http://www.uscc.gov/teswol.htmo, >    USCC - Testimony of William Wolman page >eK >   "...It should be obvious that Americans who earn their living from workgG >    have paid more than their fair share of the cost of globalization,MK >    however, beneficial that globalization may have been from a historical I >    perspective. It is therefore incumbent on policy including obviously J >    U.S. trade policy towards China to be mindful of protecting those whoG >    earn their living from work in the United States. That is the mainnI >    message that history is sending to Washington at this point in time.  >a >    [snip]o >p >.J >    Nonetheless, we do not believe that these developments will bring theH >    benefits to the United States that many economists claim they will.  % Apparently, many economists disagree.s  F >    The full impact of rapid growth abroad on jobs and incomes in theD >    United States cannot be measured in terms of the growth of U.S.F >    exports; rather it should be gauged by what happens to the marginI >    between the quantity of goods that the United States exports and the-I >    quantity of goods that the nation imports. And by both measures thatiJ >    margin, the balance of trade, has been deteriorating because AmericanE >    imports are growing faster than American exports. While American G >    industry is becoming more competitive in some product lines, it isoH >    losing competitive advantage for products that have an even greaterK >    total value. The widely celebrated American export boom is impressive,EJ >    but the less celebrated import boom is more telling. And because U.S.J >    imports have been growing faster than U.S. exports, it is likely thatH >    the international position of American workers is not improving butJ >    deteriorating. That is a major reason why there is no end in sight toA >    wage stagnation in the United States and in other industrialG >    countries..." >aI > Salaries in the IT industry have decreased, as has the number of people  > working in the IT industry.  >t4 > --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailL   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2002 00:00:26 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: Independent Consultants + OpenVMS.org- Message-ID: <87lm3hej1h.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:P  F > A lotta stuff has "been done". A better question is: how long has itF > lasted? ...and what happens to those undersea cables as the tectonicE > plates shift? ...lava flows erupt? ...ships get sunk? ...terrorists  > attack? ... etc.?r  F A terrorist who gets between Microsoft and the victim? Yeaaaahhh. From the IRA are they? :)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 14:12:30 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)gA Subject: Re: Interesting SHOW USERS "feature" under VMS 7.3 Alphaa3 Message-ID: <5EK9FhjrK$b3@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  U In article <00A17824.5E43AB4B@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:tc > In article <SC+QhnVTBXdu@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:ay >>In article <01KPAKNGL0HIA24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:lN >>>> > I can picture him in his computer den - surrounded by monitors, perhapsL >>>> > a VT or two, maybe a bunch o' DECterm sessions where he TELNETted in,
 >>>> > ... >>>> oJ >>>> Nope.  The VAXman's VMS den is much bigger than that.  I've seen it. I >>>> I doubt HP has an official demo room with as much equipment in it...s >>>> 8-) >>> I >>> http://www.tmesis.com/pics/vaxman_hard-at-work.jpg is an interesting -I >>> shot (no, that's NOT me, although there is a certain similarity when n; >>> seen from the back (I've also been told I could win an  G >>> Andy-Goldstein-lookalike contest).  He used to have some "VAXcave" nJ >>> pictures there, but not anymore.  Hopefully he's updating the archive  >>> with some new pictures.i >>>  >>A >>I fear this may be a picture of an imposter!  Yes, this person ,A >>is leaning into a Digital monitor, poised over an LK keyboard, n? >>and wearing a Process tye-died shirt....  But, wait!!!  I spy-? >>a Bud to the left of the keyboard!  This can't be the VAXman c >>I know!  @ >> >>;^)> >  > Arrgh!  OK.  How about:u > 5 > http://www.tmesis.com/pix/THIS_IS_MORE_LIKE_IT.JPG;p >   
 	Much better!y  A 	Sheewah... you had me very worried there for a moment.  It would3" 	be like ... VMS without the V !!!   				RobT   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:29:19 GMTp" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGA Subject: Re: Interesting SHOW USERS "feature" under VMS 7.3 Alphae0 Message-ID: <00A17806.BF6A962A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  P In article <3DE25707.2050901@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: >Phillip Helbig wrote: >> p5 >> http://www.tmesis.com/pics/vaxman_hard-at-work.jpg  >d >File Not Found.  6 Try: http://www.tmesis.com/pix/vaxman_hard-at-work.jpg    B >> He used to have some "VAXcave" pictures there, but not anymore. >  >http://www.tmesis.com/VAXcave/U  K That's a really outdated pic.  I hope to get something newer up there soon.t     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMk            a5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" k   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:54:48 GMT19 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>:+ Subject: Re: Jackson Structured Programmingg? Message-ID: <3f66299b4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>2  ( In message <3DE1D593.13D0245E@127.0.0.1>3           Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:c   > Rob Heyes wrote: > > N > > Does anyone know of a Jackson Structured Programming package for an Alpha?O > > We have a VAX version but its obsolete. I expect any Alpha version would bemP > > too, but anyone got anything? It was known as JSP, but I expect this acronymI > > has been confiscated to history and replaced with JSP to mean Java!!!s > G > I studied this methodology for coding in COBOL. GOTO is a dirty word.2 > GOSUB is king. > G > When I came to understand the performance characteristics of VMS on aCH > VAX, I figured that this was probably one of the worst ways to program" > in regard to memory performance. > B > My surmise (and if you don't know JSP, this may explain it), youF > effectively code a "procedure call", which in turn calls a number ofG > other "procedure calls" in the next "non consecutive" area of programeC > memory, which in turn calls even more procedure calls in the nextu0 > "consecutive" area of memory, which in turn... > $ > Until you get to the procedure...! >  > i.e. > procedure1 >  call procedure2 >  end procedure1  > procedure2 >  call procedure3 >  call procedure4 >  end procedure2b > procedure3 >  call procedure5 >  call procedure6 >  call procedure7 >  call procedure5 >  end procedure3- > procedure5 >    do somethingf >    call procedure8 >    end procedure5u > procedure6 >    do somethingh >    end procedure6  > procedure7 >    do somethingn >    call procedure8 > end procedure8 >    procedure8t >    do something- >    end procedure8  > --end of code--- > I > So, to for the program to do anything, it page faults into memory, pagefH > faults again part way down to code, page faults yet again another jumpE > down the code, and so on, until to reaches the code doing the work.e > D > Opposed to code written using a flowchart type of methodology, youJ > imagine square boxes, and each line in a square box calls another squareH > box, and so on, until the function itself is performed, and you returnG > back up the chain of square boxes, then guess what, yes back down theo > chain of boxes.  > J > The problem I see is that the code itself when compiled ends up with theG > boxes being compiled in the order they appear in the source code, noteJ > related to the order in which the boxes are actually executed, therefore  > you get this 'jumping around'. > E > If the code is paged entirely into memory, then it probably doesn't 	 > matter.   E When Alpha first cam out, we took one of our applications to the demo G system, expecting maybe to get the 13x improvement quotes, and got 50x.   K The application was doing complicated 3D simulations, in Fortran, and usingeL sparse arrays. This resulted in lots of page thrashing. The larger page size- on Alpha reduced that, hence the extra speed.   E We bought an Alpha (DEC 3000 model 400. It's still going, and runninge production.)   > H > On a memory tight system, you stand a high risk of having your workingH > set paged out while executing one of the 'lower down' boxes, and paged9 > back in again, only to call yet another lower down box.  > D > I'm no expert on the way the COBOL compiler works, and I learnt myI > performance on the same system that was memory tight, and had cobollersaH > trained in JSP thrashing the box. If you've an opposing view, I'd loveI > to read it here...  (_My_ memory of this is as old as the boards making  > up all 8MB of an 11/750) >    --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:47:31 +0000t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>+ Subject: Re: Jackson Structured ProgrammingT) Message-ID: <3DE1D593.13D0245E@127.0.0.1>g   Rob Heyes wrote: > L > Does anyone know of a Jackson Structured Programming package for an Alpha?M > We have a VAX version but its obsolete. I expect any Alpha version would betN > too, but anyone got anything? It was known as JSP, but I expect this acronymG > has been confiscated to history and replaced with JSP to mean Java!!!c  E I studied this methodology for coding in COBOL. GOTO is a dirty word.  GOSUB is king.  E When I came to understand the performance characteristics of VMS on a F VAX, I figured that this was probably one of the worst ways to program  in regard to memory performance.  @ My surmise (and if you don't know JSP, this may explain it), youD effectively code a "procedure call", which in turn calls a number ofE other "procedure calls" in the next "non consecutive" area of programiA memory, which in turn calls even more procedure calls in the nextT. "consecutive" area of memory, which in turn...  " Until you get to the procedure...!   i.e.
 procedure1  call procedure2  end procedure1m
 procedure2  call procedure3  call procedure4  end procedure2P
 procedure3  call procedure5  call procedure6  call procedure7  call procedure5  end procedure3:
 procedure5    do somethingt    call procedure8    end procedure5p
 procedure6    do somethingo    end procedure6C
 procedure7    do somethingo    call procedure8 end procedure8
    procedure8o    do something     end procedure8t --end of code---  G So, to for the program to do anything, it page faults into memory, pageuF faults again part way down to code, page faults yet again another jumpC down the code, and so on, until to reaches the code doing the work.y  B Opposed to code written using a flowchart type of methodology, youH imagine square boxes, and each line in a square box calls another squareF box, and so on, until the function itself is performed, and you returnE back up the chain of square boxes, then guess what, yes back down the, chain of boxes.l  H The problem I see is that the code itself when compiled ends up with theE boxes being compiled in the order they appear in the source code, not H related to the order in which the boxes are actually executed, therefore you get this 'jumping around'.  C If the code is paged entirely into memory, then it probably doesn't  matter.   F On a memory tight system, you stand a high risk of having your workingF set paged out while executing one of the 'lower down' boxes, and paged7 back in again, only to call yet another lower down box.f  B I'm no expert on the way the COBOL compiler works, and I learnt myG performance on the same system that was memory tight, and had cobollers F trained in JSP thrashing the box. If you've an opposing view, I'd loveG to read it here...  (_My_ memory of this is as old as the boards makingp up all 8MB of an 11/750)   -- r? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesu nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:55:40 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u+ Subject: Re: Jackson Structured Programmingu' Message-ID: <3DE2E2AC.E7B0BE15@fsi.net>y   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Rob Heyes wrote: > >uN > > Does anyone know of a Jackson Structured Programming package for an Alpha?O > > We have a VAX version but its obsolete. I expect any Alpha version would beaP > > too, but anyone got anything? It was known as JSP, but I expect this acronymI > > has been confiscated to history and replaced with JSP to mean Java!!!a > G > I studied this methodology for coding in COBOL. GOTO is a dirty word.o > GOSUB is king.  D I'm sure I don't have to remind anyone that in COBOL, PERFORM is the equivalent of GOSUB.  B Since folks learned to make re-usable code, re-entrant code, etc.,4 subroutines have proven their worth many times over.   -- p David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:23:46 -0800e" From: Koloth <koloth@telocity.com>+ Subject: Re: Jackson Structured Programmingo+ Message-ID: <3DE2E942.8090307@telocity.com>a  & --------------0105080901040803040709029 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowedn Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bito   <Tongue-in-cheek> " Sorry, but I don't know Jack...son   </Tongue-in-cheek>   Cass   David J. Dachtera wrote:   >Nic Clews wrote:w >  y >o >>Rob Heyes wrote: >>     >>M >>>Does anyone know of a Jackson Structured Programming package for an Alpha?-N >>>We have a VAX version but its obsolete. I expect any Alpha version would beO >>>too, but anyone got anything? It was known as JSP, but I expect this acronym H >>>has been confiscated to history and replaced with JSP to mean Java!!!	 >>>      L >>>OG >>I studied this methodology for coding in COBOL. GOTO is a dirty word.t >>GOSUB is king. >>     >> >oE >I'm sure I don't have to remind anyone that in COBOL, PERFORM is the  >equivalent of GOSUB.  >sC >Since folks learned to make re-usable code, re-entrant code, etc., 5 >subroutines have proven their worth many times over.h >o >  i >r    & --------------010508090104080304070902) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt  ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>   <title></title>  </head>r <body> &lt;Tongue-in-cheek&gt;<br>o& Sorry, but I don't know Jack...son<br> <br> &lt;/Tongue-in-cheek&gt;<br> <br> Cass<br> <br> David J. Dachtera wrote:<br>< <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3DE2E2AC.E7B0BE15@fsi.net">   <pre wrap="">Nic Clews wrote:o   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">!     <pre wrap="">Rob Heyes wrote:y
     </pre>     <blockquote type="cite">]       <pre wrap="">Does anyone know of a Jackson Structured Programming package for an Alpha?eK We have a VAX version but its obsolete. I expect any Alpha version would be L too, but anyone got anything? It was known as JSP, but I expect this acronymE has been confiscated to history and replaced with JSP to mean Java!!!o       </pre>     </blockquote> V     <pre wrap="">I studied this methodology for coding in COBOL. GOTO is a dirty word. GOSUB is king.
     </pre>   </blockquote>r   <pre wrap=""><!---->D I'm sure I don't have to remind anyone that in COBOL, PERFORM is the equivalent of GOSUB.  B Since folks learned to make re-usable code, re-entrant code, etc.,4 subroutines have proven their worth many times over.     </pre>
 </blockquote>s <br> </body>  </html>a  ( --------------010508090104080304070902--   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2002 00:26:23 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>? Subject: Re: Jumper settings for TZ87 in StorageWorks enclosure - Message-ID: <87hee5ehu8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>'  . mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) writes:  = > Hello all. I just bought a TZ87 DLT drive in a StorageWorksuF > enclosure.  Unfortunately, it didn't come with any documentation and4 > the HP website doesn't seem to contain any either.   D > It seems to work fine-- the only thing is that it ignores the SCSIE > address set by jumpers on the back of my StorageWorks enclosure andgC > always comes up as SCSI ID #4, no matter which slot it is put in.r  fB > There is a tiny 6 position DIP switch on the ribbon cable in the; > back but there is no indication of what the settings are.h  g: > Can anyone point me to any documentation for this drive?   It is in the BA356 shelf docs.  , What you want is 1-3 off, 4-6 on, 7 & 8 off.  : To set the unit number, set it in 1-3 and turn off all the# other switches. LSB is SW1, off = 0n   -- y< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.I@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:26:42 GMTt+ From: Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net>a= Subject: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem.-D Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0211251422330.3954-100000@bolt.sonic.net>   Here is the problem.  F I have a legacy cobol system on OpenVMS that produces text based entryB screens. Currently the users are using an expensive telnet package9 to telnet into the box and run these cobol entry screens.t  E I would be interested if anyone has come through this same situation.   C I am interested in moving this to the web using a java based telnetr@ solution or find some telnet package (less $$$ - currently usingB WRQ reflections ) so that I could set the telnet in the file typesA in windows so that a url will invoke this telnet client, allowinge$ logon and production of the screens.  ? I am interested in any and all comments on this.  I am as green C as sticks on this one - coming from a totally different background.i   Thanks to all.    ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql)iI print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8,-C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:01:05 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>A Subject: RE: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem.E0 Message-ID: <01C29493.8F5C4F10@sulfer.icius.com>  G FYI, WRQ's Reflection and packages like it are generally referred to aseG terminal emulators. Telnet is the underlying protocol in your case, but 2 usually not the only one an emulator will support.  @ If you just want to ditch the expense of Reflection, go look forB TeraTerm. It's free, it's fast, and I personally prefer it to both5 Reflection and Kea. IIRC, I found it on Winfiles.com.e  > This seems to be more an issue on the PC end than the VMS end.   Shane    -----Original Message-----2 From: Joseph Norris [mailto:jozefn@bolt.sonic.net]' Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 2:27 PMd To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt= Subject: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem.r       Here is the problem.  F I have a legacy cobol system on OpenVMS that produces text based entryB screens. Currently the users are using an expensive telnet package9 to telnet into the box and run these cobol entry screens.   E I would be interested if anyone has come through this same situation.o  C I am interested in moving this to the web using a java based telnetm@ solution or find some telnet package (less $$$ - currently usingB WRQ reflections ) so that I could set the telnet in the file typesA in windows so that a url will invoke this telnet client, allowingJ$ logon and production of the screens.  ? I am interested in any and all comments on this.  I am as green C as sticks on this one - coming from a totally different background.F   Thanks to all.    ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql)r print @c=map chr8 $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8,C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:59:23 +0100t  From: "T.R." <tr303@hotmail.com>A Subject: Re: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem. 5 Message-ID: <UWxE9.158110$I6.14127595@zwoll1.home.nl>c  8 "Joseph Norris" <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message> news:Pine.LNX.4.40.0211251422330.3954-100000@bolt.sonic.net... >i > Here is the problem. >-H > I have a legacy cobol system on OpenVMS that produces text based entryD > screens. Currently the users are using an expensive telnet package; > to telnet into the box and run these cobol entry screens.l >eG > I would be interested if anyone has come through this same situation.e >nE > I am interested in moving this to the web using a java based telnetwB > solution or find some telnet package (less $$$ - currently usingD > WRQ reflections ) so that I could set the telnet in the file typesC > in windows so that a url will invoke this telnet client, allowingo& > logon and production of the screens. >gA > I am interested in any and all comments on this.  I am as green-E > as sticks on this one - coming from a totally different background.p >o > Thanks to all. >u >c= > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql)0K > print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8,fE > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);b >wH I'm probably just as 'green as sticks' on this as you are, but I'd startH with for example http://javassh.org/ this java telnet client applet, and1 specialize it to connect to your specific server./   Hope this helps,   Ts   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:15:21 -0800s" From: Brad Hughes <brad@tgsmc.com>A Subject: Re: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem.h( Message-ID: <3DE2AF09.2090704@tgsmc.com>   Joseph Norris wrote: > Here is the problem. > H > I have a legacy cobol system on OpenVMS that produces text based entryD > screens. Currently the users are using an expensive telnet package; > to telnet into the box and run these cobol entry screens.t  F "text based entry screens"?  Does it use SMG$ routines, or simple textF prompt and accept?  If text (or if SMG$ and you can hack the source toE provide a different front end), write some perl to provide the forms,dE and dynamically generate .com files to run the system with redirectede input.   brad   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 23:04:19 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>oA Subject: Re: Need of help for an OpenVMS - newbie with a problem.e6 Message-ID: <20021125230419.12805.qmail@nym.alias.net>  A On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> wrote:  >Here is the problem.h >eG >I have a legacy cobol system on OpenVMS that produces text based entrymC >screens. Currently the users are using an expensive telnet package : >to telnet into the box and run these cobol entry screens.  , What? MS Telnet isn't good enough? <snigger>  D >I am interested in moving this to the web using a java based telnetA >solution or find some telnet package (less $$$ - currently usingnC >WRQ reflections ) so that I could set the telnet in the file typesyB >in windows so that a url will invoke this telnet client, allowing% >logon and production of the screens.i  B Setting which client is invoked may vary between different WindowsJ versions. A Google search for "Change Windows default telnet client" turns& up a lot of stuff that looks relevant.  @ >I am interested in any and all comments on this.  I am as greenD >as sticks on this one - coming from a totally different background.  , I use PuTTY, mainly because it supports SSH.  2 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/  I This is a fairly capable telnet client which is freeware. The SSH support1I would even give you the option to have people connect securely across then	 Internet.t     Doc. -- o6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net9   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:43:58 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping 0 Message-ID: <00A1782A.529145AA@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <3DE289F9.E1EA34BC@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:d" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >if >> In article <3DE22992.7A447547@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:% >> >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  >> >@ >> >> but the kids will be with me and their NJ public schooling= >> >> educated minds are not ready for that much stimulation.t >> >1 >> >I'm always amused at the Right Wing hypocricyg8 >> >that says that they can slip in gratuitous political6 >> >slams whenever they wish, but woe unto any lefties3 >> >who bring up politics in a technical newsgroup.w >> > >> >But nice try, VAXMAN.i >> >
 >> >Atlant >>J >> Perhaps if you lived in the US and not fantasy land, you'd see that theJ >> educational system is in a state of disarray.  How "slamming" this poorF >> excuse of an educational system is "Right Wing hypocricy" fails me. > . >You're either missing or deliberately dodging2 >my point. The topic was (at least for the moment)2 >non-political. But you saw an opportunity to slip4 >your little political stilleto in and make a Right-- >Wing snide remark slamming public education.t >o >So you took the opportunity.. >y/ >But would you have taken it as kindly if I hado- >slipped in a Left Wing point in an otherwiseg >non-political discussion?    H I believe the discussion was, at Mr. Harrison's suggestion, about takingI my family on a tour of the Tate Modern.  The discussion was non-politicalbI as you have pointed out but it was also non-technical.  You've alluded to1G my introduction of the former into the latter which is simply not true.   h  I If it makes you any happier, yes, the americun edyoucayshun cystum is thenH graytest in the hole world!  I'm certain that 3/5 of all americuns (that) would be 75% right?) wood agree with you.d   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMB            r5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:11:55 -0800s$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com># Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger Flippinge0 Message-ID: <01C2948C.B0EBC950@sulfer.icius.com>  F I agree with VAXman on the education. When I came over to America fromH England, a bunch of other families came over with me. Every single childD in the group found they were at least a year ahead of their peers atG school, some quite a bit more so. They had to sit through things they'deF already covered until the American children caught up. Before you ask,5 these were supposed to be very good American schools.n  A I have no political axe to grind here, merely stating my personalc? observation. America's educational system does not impress me. e   Shanew  = In article <3DE289F9.E1EA34BC@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidta% <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:o" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >.@ >> In article <3DE22992.7A447547@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt% <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:o% >> >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:o >> >@ >> >> but the kids will be with me and their NJ public schooling= >> >> educated minds are not ready for that much stimulation.i >> >1 >> >I'm always amused at the Right Wing hypocricyd8 >> >that says that they can slip in gratuitous political6 >> >slams whenever they wish, but woe unto any lefties3 >> >who bring up politics in a technical newsgroup.h >> > >> >But nice try, VAXMAN.s >> >
 >> >Atlant >>J >> Perhaps if you lived in the US and not fantasy land, you'd see that theJ >> educational system is in a state of disarray.  How "slamming" this poorF >> excuse of an educational system is "Right Wing hypocricy" fails me. >r. >You're either missing or deliberately dodging2 >my point. The topic was (at least for the moment)2 >non-political. But you saw an opportunity to slip4 >your little political stilleto in and make a Right-- >Wing snide remark slamming public education.s >p >So you took the opportunity.. >t/ >But would you have taken it as kindly if I hadw- >slipped in a Left Wing point in an otherwisec >non-political discussion?    H I believe the discussion was, at Mr. Harrison's suggestion, about taking; my family on a tour of the Tate Modern.  The discussion was 
 non-political F as you have pointed out but it was also non-technical.  You've alluded toG my introduction of the former into the latter which is simply not true.n  h  E If it makes you any happier, yes, the americun edyoucayshun cystum isr the H graytest in the hole world!  I'm certain that 3/5 of all americuns (that) would be 75% right?) wood agree with you.t   --2 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            s5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:35:00 -0500e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com># Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingo, Message-ID: <3DE2F9F4.3060602@tsoft-inc.com>  Q When I attended school, (way too long ago), there was an emphysis on doing well. aL   Then there came a time when it was decided that some doing more well than B others was a bad thing, and that students coming from any type of P 'underprivilidged' background/environment should not have to suffer from such a Q background.  The result, such were not graded to the standards used in the past. aN   In short, it's called "dumbing down the education system", so that we don't   have poor (relatively) students.  P I cannot understand what type of idiot could concieve of lowering the standards P rather than addressing the real problem, bring all students up to the standard.    But, that's what we got.  N Now, with education being attacked, and achievement test scores becoming more L important, I see the standards being raised again, on students that are not L prepared for such.  Some of them are facing a cliff that they cannot climb. O After years of nothing much being expected from the students, some cannot meet f the new expectations.b  Q There is always a price for stupidity.  Unfortunately, the guilty are rarely the o ones that pay the price.   Dave     Shane Smith wrote:  H > I agree with VAXman on the education. When I came over to America fromJ > England, a bunch of other families came over with me. Every single childF > in the group found they were at least a year ahead of their peers atI > school, some quite a bit more so. They had to sit through things they'dsH > already covered until the American children caught up. Before you ask,7 > these were supposed to be very good American schools.l > C > I have no political axe to grind here, merely stating my personaloA > observation. America's educational system does not impress me. l >  > Shanec > ? > In article <3DE289F9.E1EA34BC@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidty' > <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  > # >>VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:a >> >>@ >>>In article <3DE22992.7A447547@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt >>> ' > <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:o > % >>>>VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:h >>>> >>>>? >>>>>but the kids will be with me and their NJ public schoolingo< >>>>>educated minds are not ready for that much stimulation. >>>>> 1 >>>>I'm always amused at the Right Wing hypocricys8 >>>>that says that they can slip in gratuitous political6 >>>>slams whenever they wish, but woe unto any lefties3 >>>>who bring up politics in a technical newsgroup.f >>>> >>>>But nice try, VAXMAN.. >>>>
 >>>>Atlant >>>>J >>>Perhaps if you lived in the US and not fantasy land, you'd see that theJ >>>educational system is in a state of disarray.  How "slamming" this poorF >>>excuse of an educational system is "Right Wing hypocricy" fails me. >>>r/ >>You're either missing or deliberately dodgingU3 >>my point. The topic was (at least for the moment)c3 >>non-political. But you saw an opportunity to sliph5 >>your little political stilleto in and make a Right-i. >>Wing snide remark slamming public education. >> >>So you took the opportunity..  >>0 >>But would you have taken it as kindly if I had. >>slipped in a Left Wing point in an otherwise >>non-political discussion?i >> >  > J > I believe the discussion was, at Mr. Harrison's suggestion, about taking= > my family on a tour of the Tate Modern.  The discussion wasn > non-politicalnH > as you have pointed out but it was also non-technical.  You've alluded > toI > my introduction of the former into the latter which is simply not true.a >  x > G > If it makes you any happier, yes, the americun edyoucayshun cystum ise > thetJ > graytest in the hole world!  I'm certain that 3/5 of all americuns (that+ > would be 75% right?) wood agree with you.e >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
 >             7 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:45:54 -0500s2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com># Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingi. Message-ID: <3DE22992.7A447547@mindspring.com>  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:a  < > but the kids will be with me and their NJ public schooling9 > educated minds are not ready for that much stimulation.   - I'm always amused at the Right Wing hypocricye4 that says that they can slip in gratuitous political2 slams whenever they wish, but woe unto any lefties/ who bring up politics in a technical newsgroup.y   But nice try, VAXMAN.    Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:08:36 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy-. Subject: Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance. Message-ID: <3DE1F6A4.3030301@nospamn.sun.com>   Antonio Carlini wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > ? >> The bandwidth available through a 33MHz 32bit PCI bus shouldt! >> be more than the GigE network.o >>- >> 132 MB/s if my memory serves me correctly.d >  > 5 > That's the theoretical number but in the real world 0 > you are more likely to see maybe 80MB/s or so. >   2 Of course but 80 MB/s is rather more than ~25 MB/s) which is what they are getting currently.Y   Regardsr Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:38:47 +0000,' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . Subject: Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance. Message-ID: <3DE1FDB7.8010304@nospamn.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote: R > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  > 9 >>The test was done using netperf, Rick Jones is the best-8 >>source of info on this tool, he may have had a hand in
 >>writing it.v >  > A > These days I typically call myself the "contributing editor" to  > netperf :) > A > While I know a great deal about netperf, I'm drawing a blank on8A > netperf performance measures on a Sun 450 - there was one at mytG > disposal a _long_ time ago, so it is possible I may have measured andvH > published something somehwere. If I have, a refresher on the reference > would be nice :) > A > However, based on my experiences thusfar I would guess that thenG > numbers on that Sun 450 were multiple stream. The 450 had CPUs <=~450>F > MHz as I recall and Sun's rule of thumb about bandwidth was that oneD > needed 1MHz of CPU per Mbit/s of throughput, so a single stream onA > such a machine would likely not go much faster than 450 Mbit/s.  >     A 4 x 400 Mhz Ultra II's not 450's. And it was a multi-stream test./H What I cannot glean from the test summary is how many streams were used.   Regardsg Andrew Harrisona    G > And while I'm probably not very good about it myself, it is generally E > best when quoting netperf figures to quote the number of concurrentcF > streams (instances of netperf) and the socket buffer and send bufferH > settings.  In a shorthand way, a test with say four concurrent netperfC > TCP_STREAM tests, each with a 128KB socket buffer and a 32KB sendiC > buffer might be described as "four concurrent 128Kx32K TCP_STREAMy
 > tests."  >  > rick jones > F > Well, as I have been typing, my machine has been dutifully searchingC > all my old email for messages that include "netperf" and "450" in/	 > them.  . > H > One of the hits is an email forwarding of a usenet post from 1999. I'mH > not going to repost the whole thing, the interested can try to find itE > in Google. Looks like a search on google for "netperf" and "450" in2D > comp.unix.solaris will find it, and at least some other stuff. The > headers I have for it are: > $ >  Subject: Re: Gigabit performances2 >  From: Achim Gratz <gratz@ite.inf.tu-dresden.de> >  Date: 1999/07/04p  >  Newsgroups: comp.unix.solarisM >  Pierre-Yves Thillier <pierre-yves.thillier@sophia.siemens-scg.com> writes:n > G > That posting talks about getting numbers of about 550 Mbit/s or less.x >    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:22:10 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)V. Subject: Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance3 Message-ID: <ffRqxltVr7O6@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  _ In article <200211250732.IAA25422@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:   I > now I have tested the network performance with OpenVMS COPY (128MB file-H > via network to the NL: device) and TTCP. With both tests I did get theK > same result: 9.6MB/s. I did the same test with the fast Ethernet adapter.eG > The result (9.6MB/s and 7.5MB/s) is near the one of Gigabit Ethernet.aL > I know that the first generation of Gigabit Ethernet (that one we do have)J > is not the state of the art. But that poor performance should be not the > normal think.g  A So what performance do you get copying directly from that file to ' the null device, avoiding the network ?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:53:20 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: POP Server and/or TCP strange problem/ Message-ID: <3DE1BACE.C6341D96@vl.videotron.ca>o  N I can "TELNET/PORT=110  cake.chocolate.com", which is a VAX VMS pop server andN manually login without problem. But when an application does this, it connectsN to the pop server, gets the "welcome" message and then sends the "USER test01"$ command and gets no response at all.  L This same program is fully able to connect to a SUN pop server and login in,M pickup mail etc etc. That portion of the code has been working for years now, + but had never tried it on a VMS pop server.    Any hints ?   Q +OK TCPIP POP server V5.3-18B, OpenVMS V7.2 VAX at <node.domain>, up since  <etc>.   Is the welcome message.1   Here is a trace:  J Essentially, I send the USER test01<CR><LF>, get an ACK packet but nothingM else. 2 minutes later my software times out and kills the connection (which I + suspect is the FIN-ACK packet that follows)u  3   TCPtrace RCV packet 12 at 25-NOV-2002 00:06:07.65d  J                         IP Address       Port        Seq #           Ack #  J    Source                10.0.0.11       4378   1552128001      2468576380-    Destination           10.0.0.10        110d  F                                                 Packet Length       53#    TCP flags            PSH ACK URGf        window           33580t  =                                          Hex    Count   AsciisH    --------   --------   --------   --------    ----    ----------------H    0B00000A   1E57063C   00009113   35000045    0000    E..5....<.W.....H    7C7C2393   0198835C   6E001A11 | 0A00000A    0010    .......n\....#||H    73657420   52455355 | 0D00DA32   2C833850    0020    P8.,2...USER tes=                                0A   0D313074    0030    t01..b        P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    TCPtrace XMT packet 13 at 25-NOV-2002 00:06:07.67  J                         IP Address       Port        Seq #           Ack #  J    Source                10.0.0.10        110   2468576380      1552128014-    Destination           10.0.0.11       4378   F                                                 Packet Length       40    TCP flags            ACKa        window           61440q  =                                          Hex    Count   AsciisH    --------   --------   --------   --------    ----    ----------------H    0A00000A   B65E063C   0000060C   28000045    0000    E..(....<.^.....H    0E98835C   7C7C2393   1A116E00 | 0B00000A    0010    .....n...#||\...@                        | 00000596   00F01050    0020    P.......  3   TCPtrace RCV packet 19 at 25-NOV-2002 00:08:07.82u  J                         IP Address       Port        Seq #           Ack #  J    Source                10.0.0.11       4378   1552128014      2468576380-    Destination           10.0.0.10        110a  F                                                 Packet Length       40    TCP flags            FIN ACKu        window           33580   =                                          Hex    Count   AsciisH    --------   --------   --------   --------    ----    ----------------H    0B00000A   2857063C   00009413   28000045    0000    E..(....<.W(....H    7C7C2393   0E98835C   6E001A11 | 0A00000A    0010    .......n\....#||F        0000   00000000 | 0000D902   2C831150    0020    P..,..........   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Nov 2002 15:13:36 -0800  From: nmanser@progis.de (Manser)E Subject: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port) = Message-ID: <2178d61f.0211251513.75c9a889@posting.google.com>n  
 Hi VMS folks,t  & I have inherited the folowing material   2 as 800 5/400 in a rackmountt$ 2 HSZ50 controllers (dual redundant) 5 sbb shelves with disks.o 1 vt500 Terminal  @ after mounting the Material again, i got the following problems:  D 1) after connecting the DEc connect cable to the serial port of the ? HSZ50 controller, and powering up the HSZ noting happens at the , console terminal, i can't get into the CLI .2 the LED status of the controller is the following:   GREEN LED : lit continuously" AMBER LED's: the 2 leftmost are on2 in the troubleshooting manual here is the meaning:   Description of error:h2 Bugcheck before subsystem initialisation completed corrective action: reset the controller.n  9 but when i restart the controller the status is the same.dJ when i power on the system, the disks (on the shelves) attached to the HSZ* does not appear when i do >>> show device   F Have anybody had experiences with this kind of problem, what i can do  to get access to the CLI ?   2) Terminal (VT520)l  K By powering up the terminal (selftest OK) i can not clear the screen, thereeG is a permanent pattern of signs that prevents output afer 3 lines and 7p7 columns,after that the status of the terminal is : waitfO nothing happens,the session in not accessible, neither by the F3 nor any other g buttons.  a! what is wrong with the terminal ?t  0 Help is greetly appreciated , thanks in advance.   Nazim Manser   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:39:16 GMTy9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> I Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)s? Message-ID: <18fa279b4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>e  < In message <2178d61f.0211251513.75c9a889@posting.google.com>+           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote:m   > Hi VMS folks,t > ( > I have inherited the folowing material >  > 2 as 800 5/400 in a rackmount & > 2 HSZ50 controllers (dual redundant) > 5 sbb shelves with disks.  > 1 vt500 Terminal > B > after mounting the Material again, i got the following problems: > F > 1) after connecting the DEc connect cable to the serial port of the A > HSZ50 controller, and powering up the HSZ noting happens at then. > console terminal, i can't get into the CLI .4 > the LED status of the controller is the following: >  > GREEN LED : lit continuously$ > AMBER LED's: the 2 leftmost are on4 > in the troubleshooting manual here is the meaning: >  > Description of error:y4 > Bugcheck before subsystem initialisation completed > corrective action: > reset the controller.k > ; > but when i restart the controller the status is the same.   K Does this happen on both of the HSZ50s - or can you connect the terminal to-! the other one and get to the CLI?o  + Can you boot one if the other is shut down?a  K (Given the symptoms on the terminal, I'd want to try a different terminal -g+ could something have damaged both of them?)w  - If one controller works and one doesn't, try a
 show other on the working one.d  G If neither is working, and the diagnostic is correct, then something iseK preventing both of them from booting. The only common hardware, as far as ItH know, is the disgnostic unit (the one which operates the alarn light andD buzzer), and I didn't think that could be a single point of failure.  J It is likely, if the equipment has been out of service for some time, thatL the memory batteries are flat, and probably dead. Have you tried leaving the2 system powered up for 24 hours, then trying again.  J If the batteries are not quiesced (button on the battery housing) when theL systen is shut down, then they go flat after about 100 hours. Not long after# that, they are permanently damaged.g  L It seems possible that badly damaged batteries could prevent the system fron4 starting up. Disconecting them might be worth a try.    L > when i power on the system, the disks (on the shelves) attached to the HSZ, > does not appear when i do >>> show device   3 If the HSX50s are not booting, I would expect this.= > H > Have anybody had experiences with this kind of problem, what i can do  > to get access to the CLI ? >  > 2) Terminal (VT520)e > M > By powering up the terminal (selftest OK) i can not clear the screen, there I > is a permanent pattern of signs that prevents output afer 3 lines and 7 9 > columns,after that the status of the terminal is : waitsQ > nothing happens,the session in not accessible, neither by the F3 nor any other  
 > buttons. >   # > what is wrong with the terminal ?o > 2 > Help is greetly appreciated , thanks in advance. >  > Nazim Manser   -- t
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:13:41 -0500O2 From: "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimson@burnsenergy.com>I Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)n6 Message-ID: <1QzE9.52955$%j3.26827@news.bellsouth.net>  J You need that little pigtail converter cable for the terminal.  The normalI MMJ has an offset tab.  The HSZ has a center tab.  The terminal should be/L set for 9600 baud, 8-bit, no parity.  Try disconnecting the terminal and all? cables from the HSZ and see if error light pattern is the same.k  - "Manser" <nmanser@progis.de> wrote in message;7 news:2178d61f.0211251513.75c9a889@posting.google.com...  > Hi VMS folks," >e( > I have inherited the folowing material >e > 2 as 800 5/400 in a rackmountr& > 2 HSZ50 controllers (dual redundant) > 5 sbb shelves with disks.  > 1 vt500 Terminal >tB > after mounting the Material again, i got the following problems: >uE > 1) after connecting the DEc connect cable to the serial port of thebA > HSZ50 controller, and powering up the HSZ noting happens at then. > console terminal, i can't get into the CLI .4 > the LED status of the controller is the following: >  > GREEN LED : lit continuously$ > AMBER LED's: the 2 leftmost are on4 > in the troubleshooting manual here is the meaning: >s > Description of error:k4 > Bugcheck before subsystem initialisation completed > corrective action: > reset the controller.a >n; > but when i restart the controller the status is the same.eL > when i power on the system, the disks (on the shelves) attached to the HSZ+ > does not appear when i do >>> show devicel >qG > Have anybody had experiences with this kind of problem, what i can do2 > to get access to the CLI ? >- > 2) Terminal (VT520)  >2G > By powering up the terminal (selftest OK) i can not clear the screen,m theretI > is a permanent pattern of signs that prevents output afer 3 lines and 7s9 > columns,after that the status of the terminal is : waiteJ > nothing happens,the session in not accessible, neither by the F3 nor any other 
 > buttons. >i# > what is wrong with the terminal ?a > 2 > Help is greetly appreciated , thanks in advance. >  > Nazim Manser   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:36:51 -0800m* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>/ Subject: Re: Problem with NFS on HP TCPIP stackr2 Message-ID: <ZPCdnROVTvHOt3ygXTWc2Q@mpowercom.net>  1 "Lee Y T Mah" <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> wrote in messagek# news:3DE01BCE.5B4600CF@cha.ab.ca...hE << We've migrated from a third-party TCPIP stack to the HP stack.  IniF addition, we've never implemented NFS on our VMS nodes for production.H I want to use NFS to back up my Windows folders and contents to an ES45.5 I'm getting network errors on the Windows client.  >>a  J Look at the Microsoft Unix Services for Windows product.  It allows you toK set up an NFS gateway on an NT or Win2K server so you don't have to install J NFS on workstations.  I've used it to share a VMS directory out to a Win2KH network without Pathworks or Samba.  It's no speed demon though, and you: have to watch file formats when converting from RMS to PC.     Jack Peacock   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 03:06:10 GMTn( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>( Subject: Removing phantom TCPIP services, Message-ID: <3DE2E51B.1050708@spammotel.com>   OK, now i did it.i  E I had mistakenly believed that installing DCE would give me Kerberos eO authentication for Telnet sessions, but discovered this would only be possible eM by installing the CPQ Kerberos 5 kit.  At least that's my reading, so if I'm r wrong, please advise.e  L Anyway, I now have several phantom "services" showing up in TCP/IP Services P related to DCE, and the one named "kerberos5" is apparently interfering with my 8 attempts to get the "other" Kerberos kit working for me.   $ TCPIP SHOW SERVICESo  L Service             Port  Proto    Process          Address            State  O FINGER                79  TCP      TCPIP$FINGER     0.0.0.0             Enabled O FTP                   21  TCP      TCPIP$FTP        0.0.0.0             EnabledtP RDBSERVER            611  TCP      RDB70            0.0.0.0             DisabledO SMBD                 139  TCP      SMBD             0.0.0.0             Enabled,O SWAT                 901  TCP      SWAT             0.0.0.0             Enabled-O TELNET                23  TCP      not defined      0.0.0.0             Enabled.P cdsAdver            1235  TCP      DCE$CDSADVER     0.0.0.0             DisabledP cdsDiag             1236  TCP      DCE$CDSD         0.0.0.0             DisabledP cdsLib              1234  TCP      DCE$CDSCLERK     0.0.0.0             DisabledP kerberos5             88  UDP      DCE$SECD         0.0.0.0             DisabledP ntp                  123  UDP      DCE$NTP_PROVIDE  0.0.0.0             Disabled    P Using TCPIP$CONFIG to shut down the network, I get a message telling me to stop N the processes associated with several BG devices, but when I do a SHOW DEVICE  BG*, they do not appear.  P Could someone please tell me how to clean out these DCE services from the point  of view of TCP/IP Services?d     Thanks,X   Alder.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:04:20 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>, Subject: Re: SMTP non working after upgrade.4 Message-ID: <1021124235746.400M-100000@Ives.egh.com>  $ On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, JF Mezei wrote:  & > rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote:B > > #smtp$send_local\1548:---privs after mail$send_add_bodypart---! > > #smtp$util\773:smtp$init_procm  > > #smtp$util\671:smtp$get_privS > > #smtp$util\714:curpriv=FFFFFFFF3015FFFF imagpriv=0000000000 procpriv=203015E081  > > authpriv=2000004001o > > K > > and the mail is deliver to the local account but the process never end.n > O > I recently saw a patch for MAIL on VMS. Seems that the callable interface hasa[ > a few bugs and memory leaks. I don't recall the specifics, but it may lead you somewhere.r  L The V7.2-1 MAIL ECO leaves sys$library:mailshr.exe with the wrong protectionD code: it should be world:RE, but has no world access.  Amongst otherF things, this prevents receipt of DECNET mail (maybe only by recipientsC who don't have SYSPRV?)  I reported this to Compaq in Oct 2001, andoJ they confirmed that the protection code should be S:RWED,O:RWED,G:RE,W:RE,E and that it would be fixed in a future ECO, but the future ECO hasn'tU
 appeared yet.1  ? I don't know if this would explain the original problem or not.    -- n John Santoss Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:31:52 GMT# From: rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espamd, Subject: Re: SMTP non working after upgrade.' Message-ID: <arsqm8$brc$1@tejo.csic.es>e  W In article <1021124235746.400M-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:a% >On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, JF Mezei wrote:n > ' >> rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote: C >> > #smtp$send_local\1548:---privs after mail$send_add_bodypart---e" >> > #smtp$util\773:smtp$init_proc! >> > #smtp$util\671:smtp$get_priveT >> > #smtp$util\714:curpriv=FFFFFFFF3015FFFF imagpriv=0000000000 procpriv=203015E081 >> > authpriv=2000004001 >> >  L >> > and the mail is deliver to the local account but the process never end. >> -P >> I recently saw a patch for MAIL on VMS. Seems that the callable interface has\ >> a few bugs and memory leaks. I don't recall the specifics, but it may lead you somewhere. >mM >The V7.2-1 MAIL ECO leaves sys$library:mailshr.exe with the wrong protection,E >code: it should be world:RE, but has no world access.  Amongst otherbG >things, this prevents receipt of DECNET mail (maybe only by recipientseD >who don't have SYSPRV?)  I reported this to Compaq in Oct 2001, andK >they confirmed that the protection code should be S:RWED,O:RWED,G:RE,W:RE,-F >and that it would be fixed in a future ECO, but the future ECO hasn't >appeared yet. >a@ >I don't know if this would explain the original problem or not. >a >--  >John Santos >Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.> >781-861-0670 ext 539: > 1 I afraid that is not the case. I am at 7.3 + ECOSy0 and the mailshr.exe has the correct protections.   Thanks.r    K I don't know if it would be important it get stacked with a channel open toa  LIBRTL_D56_TV.EXE;1   Could that help??.   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:34:11 GMT# From: rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam , Subject: Re: SMTP non working after upgrade.' Message-ID: <arsqqj$brc$2@tejo.csic.es>i  b In article <3DE018CD.4495FE67@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:% >rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote:aA >> #smtp$send_local\1548:---privs after mail$send_add_bodypart---e  >> #smtp$util\773:smtp$init_proc >> #smtp$util\671:smtp$get_privSR >> #smtp$util\714:curpriv=FFFFFFFF3015FFFF imagpriv=0000000000 procpriv=203015E081 >> authpriv=2000004001 >>  J >> and the mail is deliver to the local account but the process never end. >eN >I recently saw a patch for MAIL on VMS. Seems that the callable interface hasZ >a few bugs and memory leaks. I don't recall the specifics, but it may lead you somewhere.  K I had check the eco patches and the only one I have seen for mail in 7.3 ise# rolled over within the update-v100.g   Are there someone other??o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:20:00 -0500s0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: SMTP non working after upgrade./ Message-ID: <3DE1F94C.D2C0D2D2@vl.videotron.ca>f  $ rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote:M > I had check the eco patches and the only one I have seen for mail in 7.3 isa% > rolled over within the update-v100.s  A Does your bug happen for all messages, or just certain messages ?n  K Are you sure that the receiving SMTP server has sufficient provs ? You needtH SYSPRV in order to change the FROM: line of a VMSmail message (so that aI message would come from smtp%chef@chocolate.com instead of TCPIP$SMTP (ory+ whatever VMS username used by the process).     L Have you tried to trap all the temporary files that are being created by theM SMTP process ? (set a default protection in its directories so that it is notl allowed to delete files).r   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Nov 2002 13:07:18 GMT# From: rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espamo, Subject: Re: SMTP non working after upgrade.' Message-ID: <art7a6$bs8$1@tejo.csic.es>u  b In article <3DE1F94C.D2C0D2D2@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:% >rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote:aN >> I had check the eco patches and the only one I have seen for mail in 7.3 is& >> rolled over within the update-v100. >tB >Does your bug happen for all messages, or just certain messages ? >eL >Are you sure that the receiving SMTP server has sufficient provs ? You needI >SYSPRV in order to change the FROM: line of a VMSmail message (so that a>J >message would come from smtp%chef@chocolate.com instead of TCPIP$SMTP (or, >whatever VMS username used by the process). >h >vM >Have you tried to trap all the temporary files that are being created by thelN >SMTP process ? (set a default protection in its directories so that it is not >allowed to delete files).    G The problem happen with all the arriving message, the system is able todM deliber the message (it arrive to the user mailbox) but the user is no notifytM of the arriving message but if he enter in the mail utility the mail is there N as a new mail, But the process in the queue keep in the process state, but notO using using any recourse, seems to be waiting for some call to return and blockn
 the queue.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:05:05 -0500t% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project/ Message-ID: <uu4t3238odt784@news.supernews.com>   = "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@bogus.address> wrote in messagem< news:hstE9.181$Ic4.20@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net... >aH > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message > news:3dde6ad6@news.si.com...L > > >Since there was no stats for OpenVMS, I decided to write a client in my* > > >spare time, and register a few hosts. > >nG > > Perhaps a programmer who knows how to call LIB$SUB_TIMES from C cant modify* > > this to work on both Alphas and VAXes. >mE > It works okay here, after I changed the unsigned 64 bit integers to) unsigned	 > 32 bit.  >l  ? How did you manage to cram a 64 bit time into a 32 bit integer?-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:51:14 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project/ Message-ID: <3DE27F25.3DF2863F@vl.videotron.ca>h   John Vottero wrote:cA > How did you manage to cram a 64 bit time into a 32 bit integer?   F Ever heard of compression ?  Use LZW algorithm to replace frequent bit. patterns with a smaller number of bits :-) :-)   unsigned long mytime_bin[2];   or   unsigned short mytime_bin[4] ;   or  M unsigned char mytime_bin[8] ;   /* although this one might have problems withs alignment */   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:04:41 -0500e! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>i0 Subject: RE: System uptime - The Uptimes ProjectK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BA3@rlghncst964.usps.gov>o  3 The site says that they'll exclude input that's not " believable and then shows us this:  1 Windows  236  1017d 23h 5m  23d 11h 55m  43.17%  o  " A Windows system up for 1017 days?  + Must be idle with no screen saver selected.d   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:53:02 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project& Message-ID: <3DE28DAE.37155C4@aaa.com>  < When I looked at that site, I thought that many of the sites* with long uptime had very low CPU work (or) whatever it sax called). Some even 0.0 %.R  7 I think they should multiply wall-time uptime with thiso9 percentage and get an "effective" working-time. That saysf3 more about such things as memory leaks and similar u	 problems.p   Jan-Erik Sderholm.l  
 VAXVMS wrote:m > 5 > The site says that they'll exclude input that's nots$ > believable and then shows us this: > 1 > Windows  236  1017d 23h 5m  23d 11h 55m  43.17%s > $ > A Windows system up for 1017 days? > - > Must be idle with no screen saver selected.i >  > ========================" > William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS > OpenVMS Support Services( > 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800< > 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:56:18 -0800o$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>0 Subject: RE: System uptime - The Uptimes Project0 Message-ID: <01C2948A.6EB0E680@sulfer.icius.com>  G If the Irish Railways VAX is still up, maybe we can persuade someone to F send stats from it? Slap these Windoze Weenies down a little... ;-) IfF it's still in service, it'd be something like 17 years constant uptime by now wouldn't it?-   Shane-   -----Original Message-----( From: VAXVMS [mailto:bounce@notmail.com]( Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 12:05 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD0 Subject: RE: System uptime - The Uptimes Project    3 The site says that they'll exclude input that's notd" believable and then shows us this:  1 Windows  236  1017d 23h 5m  23d 11h 55m  43.17%     " A Windows system up for 1017 days?  + Must be idle with no screen saver selected.e   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Nov 2002 16:38 CSTs' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project- Message-ID: <25NOV200216380573@gerg.tamu.edu>g  ) "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes...a@ }How did you manage to cram a 64 bit time into a 32 bit integer?  : The answer is easy: you use an array of two 32 bit values.  ? How else do you plan on representing a 64 bit integer on a VAX?.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:36:19 GMTc3 From: "Jerome" <Jerome.Forissier@removethis.hp.com>f0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project1 Message-ID: <7PoE9.5$%L1.130173@news.cpqcorp.net>e  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:uu2u1i58ttuq96@news.supernews.com...tJ > Thanks, nice work.  I might suggest that this look at SYI$_CLUSTER_FTIME > instead of SYI$_BOOTTIME.v  L Well, if I understand correctly SYI$_CLUSTER_FTIME returns the time when theJ first node of the cluster was booted. So basically it's the same if we useH SYI$_BOOTTIME and run the client on the cluster's founding node, right ?D In addition, with SYI$_BOOTTIME you have the possibility to registerI separately each member of the cluster, and run one client process on eachb node.oK But if you think it might be useful, feel free to add a command-line switchn to use SYI$_CLUSTER_FTIME :-)d   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:18:40 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes ProjectK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2511020818400001@1cust108.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>e  : In article <7PoE9.5$%L1.130173@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Jerome"+ <Jerome.Forissier@removethis.hp.com> wrote:e  1 >"John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message.* >news:uu2u1i58ttuq96@news.supernews.com...K >> Thanks, nice work.  I might suggest that this look at SYI$_CLUSTER_FTIME> >> instead of SYI$_BOOTTIME. >oM >Well, if I understand correctly SYI$_CLUSTER_FTIME returns the time when the K >first node of the cluster was booted. So basically it's the same if we usenI >SYI$_BOOTTIME and run the client on the cluster's founding node, right ?i  F No, because the founding node may have been rebooted since then.  WithI rolling reboots, a cluster can stay up and available through software andnJ hardware upgrades.  In fact, the founding member may have been melted downG and made into fenders for the system manager's new car, but the cluster  can still be up.    H For the Uptimes Project, this would really give VMS an unfair advantage.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:54:42 GMTl3 From: "Jerome" <Jerome.Forissier@removethis.hp.com>r0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project0 Message-ID: <6JrE9.3$dc2.87126@news.cpqcorp.net>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageTE news:rdeininger-2511020818400001@1cust108.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...w< > In article <7PoE9.5$%L1.130173@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Jerome"- > <Jerome.Forissier@removethis.hp.com> wrote:  > 3 > >"John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message , > >news:uu2u1i58ttuq96@news.supernews.com...: > >> Thanks, nice work.  I might suggest that this look at SYI$_CLUSTER_FTIME > >> instead of SYI$_BOOTTIME. > >uK > >Well, if I understand correctly SYI$_CLUSTER_FTIME returns the time whena theSI > >first node of the cluster was booted. So basically it's the same if we' use"K > >SYI$_BOOTTIME and run the client on the cluster's founding node, right ?5 >0H > No, because the founding node may have been rebooted since then.  WithK > rolling reboots, a cluster can stay up and available through software andnL > hardware upgrades.  In fact, the founding member may have been melted downI > and made into fenders for the system manager's new car, but the cluster  > can still be up.  G Ah OK, that's the point I was missing. SYI$_CLUSTER_FTIME is really thel cluster uptime.n  J > For the Uptimes Project, this would really give VMS an unfair advantage.   :-)o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:27:24 GMT-2 From: "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@bogus.address>0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes ProjectA Message-ID: <04tE9.177$Ic4.3@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net>m  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagelE news:rdeininger-2511020818400001@1cust108.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...b  H > No, because the founding node may have been rebooted since then.  WithK > rolling reboots, a cluster can stay up and available through software andaL > hardware upgrades.  In fact, the founding member may have been melted down8 > and made into fenders for the system manager's new car   Or a VAXBar....t  I That project is hilarious. There's clients for routers and HP printers! A G color laserjet has an 11 day uptime :p Shoot, my old IIP can beat that!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:31:46 +00000) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> ) Subject: Re: Weak $DELPRC and mighty AMDS_& Message-ID: <3DE2A4D2.4000506@iee.org>   Valentin Likoum wrote:H >   And while we are on the topic, another close but unrelated question:H > bulletproof X25-related processes. They can't be stopped by any means.  H If this is VAX and you mean LES$ACP_V30, then you cannot kill it becauseB it has the NODELETE bit set in the header - you can see this using SHOW PROCESS in SDA.  A You could write some code to clear this bit and the $DELPRC woulds> almost certainly kill the process off - mind you, since a fairB number of drivers and a bunch of PPIs would notice fairly quickly,B it's debatable whether you'd get you prompt back before the system" crashed. Let us know won't you :-)  B Same goes for Alpha, except that I think that there are a few moreG X25$ processes kicking around there with NODELETE set. I'd be surprised . if the results there are any less spectacular.  D > beasts raise priotity themselves to 16 and hog the CPU! The solelyC > solution I found is to put them in suspend mode and let them restc? > untill reboot. So the question is: Is there any hummer around   G The real problem is to find out why these processes are stuck. The onlyoE way to do that is to go via the support organisation and supply them qF with the information they ask for (probably a forced crash dump taken - when the processes are in the unusual state).    Antonio  arcarlini@iee.orgy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 04:38:55 -0500e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: Weak $DELPRC and mighty AMDSe/ Message-ID: <3DE1EFAE.9501818C@vl.videotron.ca>e   Valentin Likoum wrote:? > untill reboot. So the question is: Is there any hummer aroundcE > (unsupported obviously) more powerfull than AMDS and less powerfullm > then the reset button? p    I Bring Hoff of Fred Kleinseorge into your offices and get them to do theirr? magic incantations and chants to cleanly stop your process. :-)p  H I agree with your suggestion to provide more functionality in STOP/ID to/ handle a much hreater set of problem processes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:10:40 -0500d From: "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net>? Subject: Re: Where to get the last SRM for UP2000+ motherboard?r/ Message-ID: <uu28t0oatom2f3@news.supernews.com>    Try www.microway.com    . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEBAGCAA.tom@kednos.com...v > did you check6< >  ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/archive/ >p >  >a > >-----Original Message-----g* > >From: news [mailto:pbc@informchaos.com], > >Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 3:10 PM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> > >Subject: Where to get the last SRM for UP2000+ motherboard? > >a > >i1 > >Can't find latest SRM for UP2000+ motherboard.N > >API site is gone.
 > >Any ideas?I > >g	 > >Thanksa > >s > >Peter > >  > >h > >e > >  > >t > >s > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.M= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).iD > >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 > >e > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C > Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002r >o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.653 ************************