1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 27 Nov 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 656       Contents:7 ARG!  Isn't there *any* company in the DC Metro area...  Best VAX upgrade I've seen Re: Carly on Newsnight" Re: Changing vms passwords via web" Re: Changing vms passwords via web Re: Chip Upgrade in a DS10 Re: Chip Upgrade in a DS10 Re: Chip Upgrade in a DS103 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper  Re: Database for VMS Re: Database for VMS Re: Database for VMS Re: Database for VMS" Re: DCPS V2.2 field test available, Re: Directory and Copy with un-expired files, Re: Directory and Copy with un-expired files5 Re: Does the CMU-IP 066 stack run on openVMS VAX 7.3?  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  RE: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....  Re: hung process Re: hung process* Re: It's Official! Sun Listens. Hello, HP?* Re: It's Official! Sun Listens. Hello, HP?" Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ..." Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ..." Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ..." Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ..." Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ..." Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ...- Re: Netscape 2.02 & VAX/VMS 7.3 & Motif 1.2-6 ; Re: NY LUG meeting - Disaster Tolerant Technologies from HP ; RE: NY LUG meeting - Disaster Tolerant Technologies from HP  RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: Pathworks Mac vs VMS 7.3-1 Re: Pathworks Mac vs VMS 7.3-1% Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance  Re: Recursive Deletion Re: Recursive Deletion Re: Recursive Deletion Re: Recursive Deletion Re: Recursive Deletion Re: Recursive Deletion RE: Recursive Deletion Re: Recursive Deletion Re: Recursive Deletion Re: Remote Console access + Setcim -> ABB-Bailey interface on DEC Alpha  TCPIP programming: URGent flag" Re: TCPIP programming: URGent flag Re: TIFF processing on VMS? " Re: totally OT: terminal emulators" Re: totally OT: terminal emulators" Re: totally OT: terminal emulators" Re: totally OT: terminal emulators" Re: totally OT: terminal emulators" Re: totally OT: terminal emulators$ [OT] FORTRAN-based accounting system  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:51:38 GMT  From: 01dynamypants@cox.net @ Subject: ARG!  Isn't there *any* company in the DC Metro area...8 Message-ID: <krt9uu8ah35j21opr87e50blck1m8eh5u9@4ax.com>   	 ? ..that needs an experienced VMS and/or ALLIN1 System Manager?     8 The one or two companies that have advertised a position4 doesn't seem to feel any sense of urgency in hiring.   This is so frustrating.   9 Sorry...just had to vent.  If anyone has any leads or has D a VMS  position in your company and is located in the DC metro area, PLEASE ping me off-line.         Remove my pants to email   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 06:18:59 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)# Subject: Best VAX upgrade I've seen < Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0211270618.3454e112@posting.google.com>  ) http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/edenvax/    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 10:20:56 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: Carly on Newsnight = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0211271020.48fb05cf@posting.google.com>   h Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DE388B8.3E7CCA6E@mindspring.com>...4 > You understand that most of HP's actual technology4 > left with Agilent, right? The company now known as4 > HP is basically a volume manufacturer of commodity7 > products: PCs and printers, with a few sidelines into 1 > higher-end computing (which they appear anxious  > to jettison).  > 3 > It's almost a self-parody that HP got to keep the * > "Invent" slogan in the Agilent spin-off.  3 This view seems to be based on some misconceptions.   F To put things into perspective, Agilent has a market capitalization ofF about $9B.  HP has a market capitalization of about $60B.  Both HP andF Agilent exceeded analysts' expectations for earnings this quarter, butD Agilent broke even on revenues of $1.74B, while HP had net income of' 13 cents per share on revenues of $18B.   D HP owns a fair amount of Agilent stock (and thus benefitted from theB recent run-up in the price of Agilent stock along with that of itsD own), and has a good working relationship with them, so HP can still+ obtain benefits from anything Agilent does.   D Agilent does have some excellent technology in the areas they cover,F but their scale is an order of magnitude smaller than HP, and HP's R&DF can be much larger than Agilent's as a result.   HP's web pages say it@ spends $4B per year on R&D.  Remember, HP still has HP Labs (seeD http://www.hpl.hp.com/), which is doing industry-leading research in> such areas as molecular electronics, and has partnerships withE universities including MIT and Stanford.  There must be some exciting D work going on there, as Alan Kay, one of the founders of Xerox PARC, recently joined HP Labs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:56:47 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: Changing vms passwords via web / Message-ID: <3DE40A3E.F98C0538@vl.videotron.ca>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > As I may have said earlier in this thread, the Security Development G > Manager for VMS said at the VMS Symposium that he was surprised there G > were no requests for the newer security features on upcoming versions     J Who would have though "ACME" services were related to security ? I thought- they were related to some road-runner stuff.    M Only now that someone mentioned the existence of a real "set password" system + service do I know what I am missing on VAX.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:36:15 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: Changing vms passwords via web 4 Message-ID: <1021127013529.400A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On 25 Nov 2002, Larry Kilgallen wrote:  Y > In article <1021124232800.400L-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  > C > > (Now we could just add our own password policy module, I think. G > > Looking at the revision history dates in the sample password policy G > > modules on our VAX, it looks like DEC documented this stuff about 6 , > > months after we did all the work.  Feh.) > @ > As I recall, they documented it in the same release where they > introduced it -- V5.4.  A Aha, new stuff, then ;-)  (Originally wrote the program for V5.1)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:24:04 +0000 (UTC) - From: "Colin Scott" <c.scott1@btinternet.com> # Subject: Re: Chip Upgrade in a DS10 1 Message-ID: <as2a0k$nd6$1@knossos.btinternet.com>    > Colin Scott wrote: > > L > > I have upgraded a chip in a DS10 from the original 466Mhz (damaged) to aJ > > 600Mhz Chip. Does anyone know how to change the "configuration" of the DS10L > > which still  reports itself as being a "Alphaserver DS10 466 Mhz Console" > > V6.3-1, Aug 14 2002 07:42:34"? > >  >  > Look at Appendix A > = > http://h18006.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/download/ds10cr-d.pdf   H Following Fr?d's link, I changed the jumpers to match the settings for aH EV67 600Mhz chip. Unfortunatley, the system did not start. I checked theK Chip, and discovered I have an EV6 600Mhz, not an EV67 600Mhz. I guess this  will make a difference ;-)  8 Anyone know if I can use this, or do I need to "bin" it?   Chip Part No: KP21264-600CN1  
 Thanks Again.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:15:03 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)# Subject: Re: Chip Upgrade in a DS10 K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2711020815030001@1cust118.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   ? In article <as2a0k$nd6$1@knossos.btinternet.com>, "Colin Scott" ! <colin@hornby-scott.co.uk> wrote:    >> Colin Scott wrote:  >> >M >> > I have upgraded a chip in a DS10 from the original 466Mhz (damaged) to a K >> > 600Mhz Chip. Does anyone know how to change the "configuration" of the  >DS10 M >> > which still  reports itself as being a "Alphaserver DS10 466 Mhz Console # >> > V6.3-1, Aug 14 2002 07:42:34"?  >> > >> >> Look at Appendix A  >>> >> http://h18006.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/download/ds10cr-d.pdf > I >Following Fr?d's link, I changed the jumpers to match the settings for a I >EV67 600Mhz chip. Unfortunatley, the system did not start. I checked the L >Chip, and discovered I have an EV6 600Mhz, not an EV67 600Mhz. I guess this >will make a difference ;-)  > 9 >Anyone know if I can use this, or do I need to "bin" it?  >  >Chip Part No: KP21264-600CN1   H No clue about the specific parts involved.  But maybe the firmware isn't right for the new chip?   O After you changed the jumpers, does it still report itself as a "DS10 466 Mhz"?   H You might try the fail-safe firmware loader to re-program the system forH the specific chip.  Or maybe the firmware is the same for all the chips, and it won't matter.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:18:23 +0000 (UTC) - From: "Colin Scott" <c.scott1@btinternet.com> # Subject: Re: Chip Upgrade in a DS10 1 Message-ID: <as2k7f$5lb$1@knossos.btinternet.com>   K > >Following Fr?d's link, I changed the jumpers to match the settings for a K > >EV67 600Mhz chip. Unfortunatley, the system did not start. I checked the I > >Chip, and discovered I have an EV6 600Mhz, not an EV67 600Mhz. I guess  this > >will make a difference ;-)  > > ; > >Anyone know if I can use this, or do I need to "bin" it?  > >  > >Chip Part No: KP21264-600CN1  > J > No clue about the specific parts involved.  But maybe the firmware isn't > right for the new chip?  > K > After you changed the jumpers, does it still report itself as a "DS10 466  Mhz"?   F I am afraid I did not make myself clear in the reply to Fred. When the" system is started with the revisedL jumper settings, it hangs. There is no activity, not even a beep or a flash.J With "466 Mhz" jumper settings, the system provides access to SRM, but VMS; fails to boot - it hangs. Also tried Linux - it also hangs.   J > You might try the fail-safe firmware loader to re-program the system forJ > the specific chip.  Or maybe the firmware is the same for all the chips, > and it won't matter.  D The firmware I have, is the most upto date, _but_ I do not know if aI different image is loaded according to CPU. I will try reloading Firmware  with new chip installed....    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:55:54 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>< Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper0 Message-ID: <01C295A7.8473E4E0@sulfer.icius.com>  @ True. However, access to that file would also be restricted in aE properly locked down system, so it's still of limited use to hackers. D They'd have to get in and get privs to get the file, and the program/ would be fairly pointless once you'd done that.    Shane    -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] ( Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:29 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper     Shane Smith wrote:H > doubt it will be particularly effective against a properly secured VMS
 > system.   E If the program has access to the sysuaf.dat FILE, then it can try all  the F passwords it wants without arousing any suspicion by the VMS operating systemG (expecially if it makes  a copy of the file for its own use). Note that  the E poster said that the program was a wintel one, so one would expect it  would  have its own local SYSUAF.DAT.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:33:24 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper/ Message-ID: <3DE48345.30980E66@vl.videotron.ca>    Shane Smith wrote: > B > True. However, access to that file would also be restricted in aG > properly locked down system, so it's still of limited use to hackers. F > They'd have to get in and get privs to get the file, and the program1 > would be fairly pointless once you'd done that.   G But if you have a system manager as an accomplice, he hand send you the H sysuaf.dat, you crack the boss's password and can then have "fun" on the7 system, undetected and without any intrusion attempts.    M This is why it is very important to have full trust in anyone with privileges  in your system.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:52:31 +0200 $ From: "MikeR" <rechtman@tzora.co.il>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <as20va$n098t$1@ID-103225.news.dfncis.de>   K If you have a system manager as an accomplice, why go to all the trouble of 	 cracking?   1. Get DETACH/IMPERSONATE privs. 2. Use the SYS$PERSONA calls.    Mike  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3DE48345.30980E66@vl.videotron.ca...  > Shane Smith wrote: > > D > > True. However, access to that file would also be restricted in aI > > properly locked down system, so it's still of limited use to hackers. H > > They'd have to get in and get privs to get the file, and the program3 > > would be fairly pointless once you'd done that.  > I > But if you have a system manager as an accomplice, he hand send you the J > sysuaf.dat, you crack the boss's password and can then have "fun" on the8 > system, undetected and without any intrusion attempts. > D > This is why it is very important to have full trust in anyone with
 privileges > in your system.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:50:45 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>< Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper0 Message-ID: <01C295AF.0964C690@sulfer.icius.com>  H True, but the password's irrelevant if your friend's the system manager.E HGLOGIN. Been there, done that, the boss in question laughed with the - rest of us. (It was a harmless little prank.)    Shane    -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] + Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:33 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper     Shane Smith wrote: > B > True. However, access to that file would also be restricted in aG > properly locked down system, so it's still of limited use to hackers. F > They'd have to get in and get privs to get the file, and the program1 > would be fairly pointless once you'd done that.   G But if you have a system manager as an accomplice, he hand send you the H sysuaf.dat, you crack the boss's password and can then have "fun" on the7 system, undetected and without any intrusion attempts.    B This is why it is very important to have full trust in anyone with
 privileges in your system.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:59:42 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper) Message-ID: <3DE4897E.ECD63F8F@127.0.0.1>    Jean-loup Gailly wrote:  > J > I have written a patch for John the Ripper http://www.openwall.com/john/M > to allow cracking OpenVMS (Vax and Alpha) passwords.  The patch is based on ? > code from Shawn Clifford, Davide Casale and Mario Ambrogetti.    ... L > This patch has been tested on x86 only and does not work yet on big endianM > systems. It uses asm code for speed but a portable C version is included as L > well. The asm version checks about 150,000 passwords per second on a 1 GHzK > system. Password cracking is much easier on OpenVMS than on other systems E > since passwords are not case sensitive and limited to alphanumeric,  > '$' and '_' only.   E Slightly optimistic Jean-loup. Before anyone has a heart attack, I'll = clarify your context and explain why I think it's optimistic.   C As you point out, you need access to a copy of the SYSUAF.DAT. If a G system ever got into that state from a genuine crackers' point of view, H I'd quit now and open a Burger stand (there's been enough advice here on that already).  H Secondly, a password list you hit a single user account with in the mostE part cannot exist in those that are in the password dictionary (where F implemented!), and for those of us that use the password policy moduleH forcing the presence of non alphabetic characters and therefore _really_G 'unreal' words, you'd have to slow that 150,000 guesses per second down G by generating effectively random strings of all allowable characters in F a password, versus the expected lengths (8 to 32 characters?). I don'tE really believe that anyone has the storage or the time to pregenerate @ such a colossal list, moving each character through all possibleD combinations starting at some arbitrary length, and extending to theD maximum allowable or expected (and risking missing longer ones). TheF sheer time to perform the IO alone to this list makes a mockery of theD technique. An Alpha would certainly outclass your Wintel box several& hundred fold in this department alone.  A I guess the problem of porting code to different platforms is not G knowing what preconditions can be applied to passwords, and in the case G of OpenVMS, we've been quite blessed with an array of security options, F native to the operating system, when when properly implemented, even aB determined hacker would switch to a softer target and use anythingF learnt to resume an otherwise fruitless attack on the OpenVMS box. AllE the more reason to allow an OpenVMS box to manage the secrets, rather H than some other system with the water tightness of a teabag. Even takingF that into account, sex, sodium pentathol and large amounts of cash areE probably more viable alternatives in the 'social engineering' stakes.   F However, there may be those that need a wake-up call, and your port ofC the cracker and what it _can_ do, should hopefully inspire a system E manager to check their environment. As stated its prime purpose is to G detect weak passwords, and if you as a system manager found yourself in G this position, I'd go stock up on burgers right now. Complacency is the  biggest threat of all.   (Nice site by the way.)  --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:31:42 +0100 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper+ Message-ID: <3DE490FE.3A31E8C1@mediasec.de>   L > This patch has been tested on x86 only and does not work yet on big endianM > systems. It uses asm code for speed but a portable C version is included as L > well. The asm version checks about 150,000 passwords per second on a 1 GHzK > system. Password cracking is much easier on OpenVMS than on other systems E > since passwords are not case sensitive and limited to alphanumeric,  > '$' and '_' only.   J However, VMS's use of a salt in the encrpytion process makes it impossibleF to attack all passwords in a given file simultaneously. If you're justH targetting one specific user, that doesn't make a difference, of course.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:25:59 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the RipperK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2611022025590001@1cust202.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   < In article <01C29566.88276080@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:   D >If this is a password guesser, which your wording suggests it is, IG >doubt it will be particularly effective against a properly secured VMS D >system. Successive failed guesses would incur longer delays betweenC >retries, and after a few failures it'd lock off the account. IIRC, C >that's default settings out of the box, but I haven't done a fresh F >install in a while so I'd welcome corrections from those with fresher >(or better) memories.  A No, he's copying the SYSUAF to another system, guessing plaintext G passwords, hashing them, and comparing to the hashed password stored in I SYSUAF.  I don't know if the hashing algoithms are correct, complete, and $ up-to-date, but they look plausible.  E Since the method bypasses the usual VMS login checks, it gets as many E guesses as it needs.  This is a fairly old strategy for obtaining VMS J passwords, and is valid in some environments.  A system manager might wantB to weed out passwords that are easily guessed.  It isn't a seriousI security risk, since the SYSUAF isn't readable by non-prived users.  (The 0 default protection is world:nothing for SYSUAF.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:15:52 +0100 8 From: "Tomasz Dryjanski" <tdryjanski.nospam@hotmail.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper. Message-ID: <as2d1o$2kmi$1@news2.ipartners.pl>  J > If you have a system manager as an accomplice, why go to all the trouble of > cracking? " > 1. Get DETACH/IMPERSONATE privs. > 2. Use the SYS$PERSONA calls.   7 Or you may even change the user's password temporarily. F Some years ago I wrote a program capable of storing a hashed password, and then restoring it back. K There is no much fun to break-in to a system you have administrative rights  to. ;)   T. D.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 06:13:38 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <SKWHEP+YdiIq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <as20va$n098t$1@ID-103225.news.dfncis.de>, "MikeR" <rechtman@tzora.co.il> writes:M > If you have a system manager as an accomplice, why go to all the trouble of  > cracking? " > 1. Get DETACH/IMPERSONATE privs. > 2. Use the SYS$PERSONA calls.    3. Please don't top-post.   A 4. The vulnerability to such a tool is when people have access to E    unencrypted backup tapes.  At some shops that is easier to achieve 0    than privileged access to the running system.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:34:02 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) < Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper+ Message-ID: <as2ola$7tm$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   W In article <01C29566.88276080@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: D >If this is a password guesser, which your wording suggests it is, IG >doubt it will be particularly effective against a properly secured VMS D >system. Successive failed guesses would incur longer delays betweenC >retries, and after a few failures it'd lock off the account. IIRC, C >that's default settings out of the box, but I haven't done a fresh F >install in a while so I'd welcome corrections from those with fresher >(or better) memories. >  >Shane > M John the ripper is a crack style program ie the hacker needs to have obtained N access to the sysuaf file (and copied it to a (intel) system) where he can run John the ripper against it. M I don't know very much about John The Ripper but would assume you provide it  M with a wordlist (dictionary of words) which John the Ripper then hashes with  I all possible salts and compares against the hashes in the filched sysuaf.   N If a hacker has gained access to the sysuaf then you have bigger problems than& the fact they can run John the Ripper.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >-----Original Message----- $ >From: jloup@gailly.OmitThisWord.net' >[mailto:jloup@gailly.OmitThisWord.net] ) >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 3:11 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9 >Subject: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper  >  > I >I have written a patch for John the Ripper http://www.openwall.com/john/ I >to allow cracking OpenVMS (Vax and Alpha) passwords.  The patch is based  >on > >code from Shawn Clifford, Davide Casale and Mario Ambrogetti. > G >The sources are in http://jl.gailly.net/security/john-VMS-patch.tar.gz D >A README file is at http://gailly.net/security/john-VMS-readme.html8 >or in ascii at http://jl.gailly.net/security/README.VMS > D >This patch has been tested on x86 only and does not work yet on big >endian I >systems. It uses asm code for speed but a portable C version is included  >as G >well. The asm version checks about 150,000 passwords per second on a 1  >GHzB >system. Password cracking is much easier on OpenVMS than on other >systemsD >since passwords are not case sensitive and limited to alphanumeric, >'$' and '_' only. >  >Jean-loup Gailly  >http://gailly.net/security/   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 08:43:27 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <V5s+goj8fbey@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <01C29566.88276080@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: E > If this is a password guesser, which your wording suggests it is, I H > doubt it will be particularly effective against a properly secured VMSE > system. Successive failed guesses would incur longer delays between D > retries, and after a few failures it'd lock off the account. IIRC,D > that's default settings out of the box, but I haven't done a freshG > install in a while so I'd welcome corrections from those with fresher  > (or better) memories.   E    The stated purpose of John the Ripper is to improve UNIX security. H    If you're still using a world readable password file on a UNIX systemC    you sure better use something like this.  If your using VMS or a /    shadow password file on UNIX, this may help.   :    Our UNIX system admins run a similar tool all the time.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:54:54 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper+ Message-ID: <as2pse$7tm$3@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   i In article <as2d1o$2kmi$1@news2.ipartners.pl>, "Tomasz Dryjanski" <tdryjanski.nospam@hotmail.com> writes: K >> If you have a system manager as an accomplice, why go to all the trouble  >of  >> cracking?# >> 1. Get DETACH/IMPERSONATE privs.   >> 2. Use the SYS$PERSONA calls. > 8 >Or you may even change the user's password temporarily.G >Some years ago I wrote a program capable of storing a hashed password,  >and then restoring it back.E As long as the sysuaf records aren't too long you can even do it with  DCL.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    L >There is no much fun to break-in to a system you have administrative rights >to. ;)  >  >T. D. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:27:48 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper8 Message-ID: <20021127082748.7a021426.mathog@caltech.edu>  ( On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:11:27 +0000 (UTC)7 jloup@gailly.OmitThisWord.net (Jean-loup Gailly) wrote:   J > I have written a patch for John the Ripper http://www.openwall.com/john/M > to allow cracking OpenVMS (Vax and Alpha) passwords.  The patch is based on ? > code from Shawn Clifford, Davide Casale and Mario Ambrogetti.   J Which is nice but of little relevance to VMS security.  Only a priv'd userG should be able to read SYSUAF.DAT, and if that user has evil intentions A then the system is already compromised - there's no need to crack H the password file.  This contrasts with many (most?) Unix systems, where/ everybody can read the encrypted password file.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:44:42 +0100 ) From: Georges A. Tomazi <gt@diapason.com> < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper8 Message-ID: <jg4auuknn6cro1fu2khri1kbpqvs3827vq@4ax.com>   David -   E On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:27:48 -0800, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  wrote:   [...]   5 >This contrasts with many (most?) Unix systems, where 0 >everybody can read the encrypted password file.  E That's not anymore true. Most if not all current Unix systems use now @ the shadow file (Solaris, Irix, Linux, OpenBSD, NetBSD, etc...).   Georges    --$ Georges A. Tomazi - gt@sunwizard.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:49:41 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Database for VMS 2 Message-ID: <3RycnQP6caW-GnmgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  1 <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in message 2 news:00A1782C.C418DCB9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...A > In article <_%vE9.19196$H67.86918@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" " <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:J > >>> Interesting thing is Interbase, like Oracle, was first written using VMS 	 > >as the  > >>> base platform! > >  > >True?   True.   > > >Is there anywhere on the web where I could find this said ?    You can find it said right here.  G > >It`s not that I don't believe you, but I`d like to see an "official"  > >document saying this.  = That I can't help you with - but I guess that's your problem.   5  Kind of interesting Oracle first tought that VMS was K > >the best-suited OS for their db... and then they migrated to go with the   > >flow (and the money) I guess. > >  > ? > I can't answer the actual question ('official source for this  information') but + > here's my understanding of what happened.  > L > Jim Starkey (Datatrieve architect) did a design for Rdb that (I'm a littleJ > unclear on this point) got used for Rdb/Eln (the lightweight version for the H > VAX/ELN product) but lost out and wasn't used for the VMS Rdb product. > K > He founded a new company (Groton Database Systems) and designed a closely K > related multiplatform database (initially called GDS/Galaxy) which ran on J > various Unix systems, VMS, and (eventually) NT.  (This was that late-80sK > timeframe when there were dozens and dozens of  different Unix systems on L > the market, before it shook down to a few major ones plus a whole bunch ofI > Linux and xBSD distros.) GDS changed the name of Galaxy to Interbase to K > better reflect the cross-platform nature of the product, then changed the L > name of the company, then sold the company to Borland (which was trying toG > get into enterprise markets because Microsoft was kicking its butt in  > consumer markets).  K IIRC the company was sold to Ashton-Tate, which soon thereafter either sold G it to Borland or got gobbled up in its entirety by Borland.  Other than K that, your account jibes with what I know, save that calling Jim a (or even F the) 'Datatrieve architect' does not quite do justice to the fact thatF Datatrieve was his personal creation (though it did pick up additionalF developers after a while, especially after his focus moved to database work).  4   Somehow the Paradox/Interbase synergy didn't work.J > Finally Borland agreed to make Interbase open source (apparently in lieu of$ > paying a large development staff). > K > So: original design was for VAX, for sure, but I can't speak for what the ; > development platform for Interbase proper was originally.   = JRD (Jim's Relational Database) was developed on/for VMS as a L semi-sanctioned (in that telling Jim what to work on never worked very well,K so his management gave him pretty free rein) alternative to the primary Rdb G effort.  When Jim left, he gave me a source tape (just in case DEC ever J decided to revive it) and rewrote what eventually was named Interbase fromL scratch in C for IIRC some flavor of Unix (could well have been for DEC UnixL or BSD, because IIRC he was still using MicroVAX workstations at that time).K GDS was originally located in Groton, Mass. (duh) in a spare bedroom at JimeK & Ann's new house there; some time around when the rewrite was completed ithI moved a few miles to 3 (?) second-floor rooms in a small shopping mall inU6 Westford, where it may have remained until being sold.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:59:39 -0000O5 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt>e Subject: Re: Database for VMSp7 Message-ID: <3de4a560$0$32310$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee, news:3RycnQP6caW-GnmgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net... > 3 > <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in message 4 > news:00A1782C.C418DCB9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...C > > In article <_%vE9.19196$H67.86918@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem"O$ > <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:L > > >>> Interesting thing is Interbase, like Oracle, was first written using > VMSs > > >as thee > > >>> base platform! > > >p
 > > >True? >o > True.p > @ > > >Is there anywhere on the web where I could find this said ? >f" > You can find it said right here. >aI > > >It`s not that I don't believe you, but I`d like to see an "official"i > > >document saying this. >d? > That I can't help you with - but I guess that's your problem.e >U7 >  Kind of interesting Oracle first tought that VMS was4I > > >the best-suited OS for their db... and then they migrated to go with8 the " > > >flow (and the money) I guess. > > >aF Sorry, but Oracle was not developed for VMS, originally. The version IL started with, V2.3.2, was written for the PDP-11 using the RSX11-M operatingK system. It did run on VMS, though, but in compatibility mode. Version 3 wasaI rewritten in C for VMS. Much of the internal structure, the so-called twohL task interface, however stems from their background having had to run in theL limited address space of the PDP-11. Oracle version 4 actually had a versionL for RSX11-M (because they had a contractual obligation for this port) but itD simply did not work, due to the large overhead of memory management.  H I don't think Oracle choose RSX11-M for it's quality. The PDP11 with RSXI simply was one of the most widely used minicomputers at that time (Oracler+ development must have started around 1979).    regardsa rob  van lopik   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:49:58 +0000 (UTC)s+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)u Subject: Re: Database for VMSe+ Message-ID: <as2pj6$7tm$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   o In article <3de4a560$0$32310$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>, "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> writes:m > 6 >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message- >news:3RycnQP6caW-GnmgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net...  >>4 >> <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in message5 >> news:00A1782C.C418DCB9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... D >> > In article <_%vE9.19196$H67.86918@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem"% >> <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:TM >> > >>> Interesting thing is Interbase, like Oracle, was first written using- >> VMS >> > >as the >> > >>> base platform!- >> > > >> > >True?  >> >> True. >>A >> > >Is there anywhere on the web where I could find this said ?* >># >> You can find it said right here.- >>J >> > >It`s not that I don't believe you, but I`d like to see an "official" >> > >document saying this.M >>@ >> That I can't help you with - but I guess that's your problem. >>8 >>  Kind of interesting Oracle first tought that VMS wasJ >> > >the best-suited OS for their db... and then they migrated to go with >the# >> > >flow (and the money) I guess.  >> > >G >Sorry, but Oracle was not developed for VMS, originally. The version ItM >started with, V2.3.2, was written for the PDP-11 using the RSX11-M operating0L >system. It did run on VMS, though, but in compatibility mode. Version 3 wasJ >rewritten in C for VMS. Much of the internal structure, the so-called twoM >task interface, however stems from their background having had to run in the7M >limited address space of the PDP-11. Oracle version 4 actually had a versionuM >for RSX11-M (because they had a contractual obligation for this port) but itnE >simply did not work, due to the large overhead of memory management.  >sI >I don't think Oracle choose RSX11-M for it's quality. The PDP11 with RSXoJ >simply was one of the most widely used minicomputers at that time (Oracle, >development must have started around 1979). >m  O And pretty much the same was true for VAX/VMS during the early to mid eighties.uO I remember the computer press in the mid eighties saying year on year that NEXTd& year was going to be the year of UNIX.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:40:39 GMTt( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Database for VMS6+ Message-ID: <3DE50400.6FDF2149@pacbell.net>e   "Robert A.M. van Lopik" wrote: > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageh. > news:3RycnQP6caW-GnmgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net... > >15 > > <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in messages6 > > news:00A1782C.C418DCB9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...E > > > In article <_%vE9.19196$H67.86918@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem"s& > > <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:N > > > >>> Interesting thing is Interbase, like Oracle, was first written using > > VMSe
 > > > >as thee > > > >>> base platform! > > > >m > > > >True? > >a	 > > True.P > >DB > > > >Is there anywhere on the web where I could find this said ? > > $ > > You can find it said right here. > >tK > > > >It`s not that I don't believe you, but I`d like to see an "official"g > > > >document saying this. > >aA > > That I can't help you with - but I guess that's your problem.T > >S9 > >  Kind of interesting Oracle first tought that VMS was,K > > > >the best-suited OS for their db... and then they migrated to go with  > the-$ > > > >flow (and the money) I guess. > > > >2H > Sorry, but Oracle was not developed for VMS, originally. The version IN > started with, V2.3.2, was written for the PDP-11 using the RSX11-M operatingM > system. It did run on VMS, though, but in compatibility mode. Version 3 was,K > rewritten in C for VMS. Much of the internal structure, the so-called twohN > task interface, however stems from their background having had to run in theN > limited address space of the PDP-11. Oracle version 4 actually had a versionN > for RSX11-M (because they had a contractual obligation for this port) but itF > simply did not work, due to the large overhead of memory management. > J > I don't think Oracle choose RSX11-M for it's quality. The PDP11 with RSXK > simply was one of the most widely used minicomputers at that time (Oraclec- > development must have started around 1979).- > 	 > regards5 > rob  van lopik  I The way I heard it was though not develop FOR VMS, in its early days (not2N necessarily earliest) it was the base platform for development. From there allH the porters got the code. Now (at least in 2000) Sun Solaris is the base: platform and the porters get their initial code from that. --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) 
 San Francisco    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:19:14 -0500e; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>.+ Subject: Re: DCPS V2.2 field test availabler$ Message-ID: <3de50cc1$1@news.si.com>  ' >Then it wasn't in DCPS before, was it.8  K AUTOSTART is a feature of the VMS queue manager.  It's always there.  Thus,1I it WAS in DCPS before.  It just wasn't specifiable via the interface theyc9 supplied.  That doesn't mean that now it's a new feature.n -- .A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comz= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:56:03 -0500e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>5 Subject: Re: Directory and Copy with un-expired filest4 Message-ID: <1021127014558.400B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  # On 25 Nov 2002, Dennis Baker wrote:n  C > We keep an on-line backup of user files using a DCL command file.iQ > Every night, the contents of user directories are compared against the contents?P > of this on-line backup.  If no on-line backup of a current file exists, a fileQ > is created there.  If an on-line backup exists and backup/compare indicates therP > current file doesn't match the on-line backup, a new version is created in theK > on-line backup.  This way, we can restore older versions without going tooO > tapes, and we generally have lots of versions to choose from.  The last phaselL > of the job is "mark_for_death", where all versions of files in the on-lineP > backup that no longer have a corresponding current file get an expiration dateM > set to sometime in the future, like a year and a half.  I call this puttingaM > them on death row.  If we don't need the space, we can keep these files out>P > there and if somebody recreates the original file, the program will remove theN > expiration dates of the files in the on-line backup and all the old versionsN > will still be available.  If we need the space, we can purge/keep files thatP > have expired before a given date, usually today.  You can see what is on death= > row with an expiration date of 1-jan-2002 or later by usings > ( > directory/date=expired/sin=1-jan-2002  >  > and can copy using > 3 > copy source:*.* target:*.*/expired/sin=1-jan-2002m > I > The problem is, I want to copy the latest version of all the files in asO > particular directory but only those that have NO expiration date.  How do youl > < > (1) get a directory of all files with no expiration dates?) > (2) copy files with no expiration date?  > D > In my command file, I use f$fileattributes(, "EDT") and it returnsO > "17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00".  dir/date=expire/sin=17-nov-1858 lists everything,j/ > but adding /before=19-nov-1858 lists nothing.2 >   < /date=expire means "show the expiration date in the listing"  ? You want /expired, which means "use the expiration date instead.< of the creation date in conjunction with /before and /since"  A However, "no expiration date", which means value is 0, which maps < to midnight on 17-Nov-1858 is a funny case, and I'm not sure@ that "dir/expired/sin=17-nov-1858:00:00:00.00" will do the right: thing.  On my system, with no expiration dates, that lists/ everything, but .01 second later lists nothing.o  ? P.S. I set a test file to have expired yesterday, and it now islG the only file to show up with $ dir/expired/sin=17-nov-1858:00:00:00.01lB so I think this is what you want.  (Or use /before=... to see onlyA files with no expiration date, or /sin=...00.01/bef=1-jan-2002 to ? see files that have expired before 1-jan, but not those with noi expiration date.)b    O > This seems like such a simple problem, but I can find no solution, other thanrK > restoring the whole directory, then deleting those that are expired usingcK > del/expired/sin=1-jan-1990, or most any date for that matter.  Any ideas?t >  > Dennis Baker >  >    --   John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:48:32 +0100.E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>55 Subject: Re: Directory and Copy with un-expired files:+ Message-ID: <3DE4DB40.25A5A33F@mediasec.de>   K Background: VMS 64-bit time is defined to be absolute iff the value is > 0,sG and a delta time when < 0. The semantics of the value 0 could depend on,C context, and I'm sure there are places where this is handled in an  K inconsistent way. With regard to the file time stamps, the main problem is uG that there is no out-of-band value for "not set" or "invalid"; what is aN actually used is the value ...you guessed it... 0. This means that the specialI semantics associated with the value 0 have to be supported by any and allJK software using these values, and they get it right to varying degrees. DFU,tH apparently, gets it mostly right (which is no wonder, given that it was J written fairly late when these issues were already well known - some other9 pieces of VMS are constrained by backward compatibility).e   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:21:57 -0500r  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>> Subject: Re: Does the CMU-IP 066 stack run on openVMS VAX 7.3?4 Message-ID: <1021127021859.400C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  + On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Jamie Stallwood wrote:f  2 > [Followup set to vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.cmu-tek] >  > Hi!s > A > Does the CMU-IP 066 stack run on openVMS VAX 7.3? I know it has.D > trouble linking on v7, due to a version-specific TZDRIVER, but I'mH > going round that by rebuilding the savesets. But am I wasting my time?= > Is there a v7-compatible version of CMUIP that I've missed?r > 	 > Regardsf > Jamie Stallwoodm  2 Here's the instructions I posted many years ago... ========; Problem building CMUIP V6.6 on VMS V7.0.  The kit looks forhB a TZDRIVER_Vn.OBJ in PTY054.B in CMUIP066.B.  There was no _V7.OBJ in the kit.t  < Solution was to recreate the kit with the V6 file duplicated as the V7 file.p  6         $ BACKUP src:CMUIP066.B/SAVE_SET [.CMUIP_B]*.*8         $ BACKUP [.CMUIP_B]PTY054.B/SAVE_SET [.PTY_B]*.*>         $ copy [.PTY_B]TZDRIVER_V6.OBJ [.PTY_B]TZDRIVER_V7.OBJ8         $ BACKUP [.PTY_B]*.* [.CMUIP_B]PTY054.B/SAVE_SET3         $ BACKUP [.CMUIP_B]*.*; CMUIP066.B/SAVE_SETdD         $ assign sys$login:,src: new_src:       ! set up search list9         $ ! or copy CMUIP066.B src: if it's not a CD-ROM!   > Then build, specifying new_src: as the source, instead of src:  A The assumption here is that the V6 version will work just fine on6	 VMS V7.0.o   ========  < I'm 99% sure it still worked on V7.1, but since then the VAX9 that was using it has become my home hobbyist VAX and hass< TCPWare (hobbyist license) instead of CMUIP, so I don't know if V7.3 causes any problems.   -- f John Santosp Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2002 07:00:39 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)h( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-s8dKqoWkbOi2@localhost>a  A On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:56:18 UTC, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob n
 Young) wrote:r  g > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-tC3svHs7EMNT@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:rE > > On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:36:50 UTC, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob o > > Young) wrote:i > > h > >> In article <3DE2A0B2.29202300@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:D > >> > Hm, from the PPT file, it isn't clear if it's the GCM client,4 > >> > the GCM server or both that will run on IA64. > >> > nC > >> > It *could* be that you can use a IA64 GCM *client* to managej8 > >> > an Alpha GCM *server* on a Alpha Galaxy server... > >> > 2 > >> A8 > >> 	Could be.  But that certainly wouldn't make sense. > >> 	Besides: > >>  ] > >> http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OpenVMS_clusters_to_Itanium_WP.pdfr > >> n3 > >> 	OpenVMS Clusters move to Itanium Architecturei > >> sM > >> Subsequent production releases Larger configurations. Support for GalaxypO > >> configurations. Support for FDDI and ATM for cluster (SCS) communications.yL > >> Possibility of support for VAX systems, based on customer requirements. > >> sG > >> 	Now maybe you would care to read "client" into that.  I doubt it.a > >> u5 > >> 	Things that won't be coming to Itanium include:  > >> lT > >> OpenVMS Cluster software supports three proprietary interconnects that will notH > >> be ported: DSSI (DIGITAL Systems Storage Interconnect), CI (Cluster' > >> Interconnect), and Memory Channel.  > >> d& > >> 	I don't see Galaxy in that list. > > H > > Maybe Rob but the above just infers where VMS Clustering is/will be J > > supported. I don't read it as being a statement about Galaxy features  > > being included on VMS/IPF. . >  > A > 	I wouldn't know how you couldn't read it that way.  After all,i  > 	the title of the document is: > S > http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/openvms_clusters_to_IPF.pdfm > 		1 > 		OpenVMS Clusters move to Itanium Architecture  > 
 > 	On page 3:s > & > 		Support for Galaxy configurations. > E > 	Slated for a "subsequent production release" (past H104).  Now you G > 	could argue "that's just the GCM client."  Again, that wouldn't makel > 	a lot of sense. > * > > That's why VAXen get a mention. Funny > > > though, I thought clustering already worked on VMS/Vax :-) > B > 	VAX is mentioned quite a bit on page 2.  Along the lines of "ifC > 	you really need (or more likely, care to state a business case) tC > 	VAX-Itanium mixed-architecture cluster support, drop us a line."  > 	 > 				Robh  F Well perhaps I misled you into believing that I'd read the PDF. If so,D my apologies. I haven't, my reply was based solely on the lines you  quoted from it.   D I know very little about Galaxy. My main perception of how it works F comes from the description 'cluster in a box', i.e. running more than F one instance of VMS in a CPU/memory partition and having each instance a member of a/the cluster.  F Given that perception, the sentence about clusters, including Galaxy, F leads me to see the statement that you quoted as being about Clusters  of :   	VMS/Alpha systems,a 	VMS Galaxy instances,4 	VMS/IPF systems and, picking up on Larry's comment,/ 	VMS/VAX systems if a demand is shown by ISV's.t  A Although why the latter shouldn't 'just work', in the VMS way of   things, defeats me just a bit.  A If HP/Compaq mean they won't qualify tri-architecture clustering hC unless there is explicit 'customer demand', well I think they'd be uD shooting themselves in the foot (it must be a centipede). I believe E most users would take it as read. To 'compile and run and _test_' in  F many environments still includes VAX. Not just at Compaq. That is very0 much easier with 'normal' clustered disk access.  . Maybe someone could explain the difficulties.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:11:45 -0500n0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80..../ Message-ID: <3DE47E35.6D9C8DD9@vl.videotron.ca>    Dave Weatherall wrote:8 >         VMS/VAX systems if a demand is shown by ISV's. > B > Although why the latter shouldn't 'just work', in the VMS way of  > things, defeats me just a bit.  K Lets *ASSUME* for a minute that HP declares VAX-VMS mature without any moretM versions. In such a speculative scenario,, it wouldn't take much to break thedM connectivity between VAX and Alpha/IA64 as soon as they start adding stuff to * SCS, MSCP etc that won't be ported to VAX.  H I think that HP is just keeping all its doors opened with regards to VAX4 support and committing as little as possible to VAX.  M In the "PC" world, backwards compatibility isn't a big requirement. Even withrM the same architecture, Microsoft has no intentions to make its newer software-J run on older machines (simply because they consume so many resources). AndN when you look at Apple, it didn't continue to support 68k machines with new OS versions for very very long.  M So, if HP has a "pc" mentality, it may not really see such a need to continued% to support the old, retired hardware.i  L I think that the Digital engineers have done an incredible job of continuingN to support VMS for my all-mighty Microvax II. We all know that this support is? weaning with fewer and fewer of the enw features ported to VAX.n    K When you consider the number of hobbyist systems that are mostly VAX based,nF and when you consider that much of the public domain ports or freewareL contributions would be made by hobbyists, I think that whatever features areH added to Alpha (and that IA64 thing) but not to VAX are likely to remainM unused because software cannot be written to make use of those features untile VAX also has it.  M I think it is a tribute to VMS that such a serious operating system can still:M boot and run an application on a 16mb machine. Heck, perhaps they should port2M VMS to the StrongArm platform so it could run on PDAs, some of which now have@ more ram than a MVAX II.  M With VMS running on a PDA with GPRS wireless connection, imagine the disasterrC recovery potential if you can cluster multiple PDAs across wirelessn2 connections and to the main datacentre :-) :-) :-)  ) imagine the scenario on a commuter train:   @ seatmate: gee, that is a nice PDA you have. what is it running ?  < you: it runs VMS, clustered to our main datacentre via GPRS.  M seatmate: wow. how come it shows its CPU at 100% even though you're not using( it ?  L you: right now, our main datacentre must be very busy and is offloading some= of the workload to my PDA since it is available and not busy"w  N you: and what is greate about VMS clusters is that I don't need to bother withL synching since my PDA has direct MSCP access to the datacentre so my emails,I contacts, agenda etc stay on the main server and need not be copied over.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 06:10:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....3 Message-ID: <gCbZ+ht7wcCu@eisner.encompasserve.org>A  e In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-s8dKqoWkbOi2@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:-  F > I know very little about Galaxy. My main perception of how it works H > comes from the description 'cluster in a box', i.e. running more than H > one instance of VMS in a CPU/memory partition and having each instance > a member of a/the cluster.  E A prominent Galaxy project leader from VMS Development has emphasizedgE that Galaxy is _not_ "cluster in a box" since the result lacks robust < failover in the case of central hardware failure in the box.  H > Given that perception, the sentence about clusters, including Galaxy, H > leads me to see the statement that you quoted as being about Clusters  > of : >  > 	VMS/Alpha systems,) > 	VMS Galaxy instances,6 > 	VMS/IPF systems and, picking up on Larry's comment,1 > 	VMS/VAX systems if a demand is shown by ISV's.j > C > Although why the latter shouldn't 'just work', in the VMS way of W  > things, defeats me just a bit. > C > If HP/Compaq mean they won't qualify tri-architecture clustering tE > unless there is explicit 'customer demand', well I think they'd be c; > shooting themselves in the foot (it must be a centipede).C  D They put the trial balloon out their for supporting tri-architectureD clusters and the major customer demand they got was to _not_ qualifyD VAX.  It came from people who wanted a wedge to get their management* to replace their VAXen with Alpha or IA64.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:44:32 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....) Message-ID: <3DE4BE30.F37039F0@127.0.0.1>    Dave Weatherall wrote: >  > ...iB > If HP/Compaq mean they won't qualify tri-architecture clusteringD > unless there is explicit 'customer demand', well I think they'd beE > shooting themselves in the foot (it must be a centipede). I believeeF > most users would take it as read. To 'compile and run and _test_' inH > many environments still includes VAX. Not just at Compaq. That is very2 > much easier with 'normal' clustered disk access. > / > Maybe someone could explain the difficulties.   A The problem is the word "supported", that requires qualification.rC Qualification means not just A VAX with AN Alpha and AN Itanium, its8 means all possible combinations with supported hardware.  C VAX and Alpha has a two dimensional matrix, it goes 3D when you addnB Itanium, so you double that VAX/Alpha testing matrix every Itanium system you also support.  D Nothing is being coded to _prevent_ tri clustering, but in trying toF support that, they could spend inordinate amounts of time testing, and# not releasing _supported_ software.h   This is my understanding of it.a -- n? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesp nclews at csc dot comM   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 07:57:29 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....3 Message-ID: <JHqwn+SdAp8X@eisner.encompasserve.org>T  c In article <gCbZ+ht7wcCu@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:rg > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-s8dKqoWkbOi2@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:h > G >> I know very little about Galaxy. My main perception of how it works aI >> comes from the description 'cluster in a box', i.e. running more than cI >> one instance of VMS in a CPU/memory partition and having each instancet >> a member of a/the cluster.a > G > A prominent Galaxy project leader from VMS Development has emphasizedsG > that Galaxy is _not_ "cluster in a box" since the result lacks robust > > failover in the case of central hardware failure in the box. >     : 	Let me add a personal note to this.  In early 1997 I madeB 	the unfortunate statement of describing it as "virtual clusters."  A 	I was told by a prominent VMS engineering leader to NOT describei@ 	it that way as "virtual" has no place in describing it... among. 	other issues with the terminology (as noted).  > 	There are 3 modes to Galaxy.  Shared Nothing, Partial Sharing@ 	and Shared Everything.  You could have several instances on one< 	box sharing everything but as Larry says... don't call that 	a "cluster in a box."   				Rob<   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:16:19 GMTs From: dittman@dittman.net ( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....8 Message-ID: <nd6F9.37943$hi6.22629@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>  1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:sN > I think that the Digital engineers have done an incredible job of continuingP > to support VMS for my all-mighty Microvax II. We all know that this support isA > weaning with fewer and fewer of the enw features ported to VAX.r  < You do know that support for the MicroVAX II was dropped for; OpenVMS VAX V7.3, right?  I was able to run V7.3 on a MVII, ) but that is an unsupported configuration.s -- f Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.nete= Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:14:58 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>-( Subject: RE: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B9B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Larry,  > >>> A prominent Galaxy project leader from VMS Development has6 emphasized that Galaxy is _not_ "cluster in a box" <<<  G Galaxy and/or partitioning provides better utilization of resources andIF increased application availability flexibility on a single system than# what a single OS image provides.=20H  B Another way to look at this is Galaxy and/or partitioning providesH higher levels of availability (on systems that support it) than a singleH system image, but because there are single points of HW failure on theseE systems, it does not provide the same capability as a "cluster" whicht< typically implies no single system related point of failure.   Regardsr  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660- Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)c     -----Original Message-----7 From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]=202 Sent: November 27, 2002 7:10 AMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2( Subject: Re: Galaxy and ES47 vs ES80....    5 In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-s8dKqoWkbOi2@localhost>,n/ djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:c  E > I know very little about Galaxy. My main perception of how it workscJ > comes from the description 'cluster in a box', i.e. running more than=20H > one instance of VMS in a CPU/memory partition and having each instance > a member of a/the cluster.  E A prominent Galaxy project leader from VMS Development has emphasizedaE that Galaxy is _not_ "cluster in a box" since the result lacks robusts< failover in the case of central hardware failure in the box.  G > Given that perception, the sentence about clusters, including Galaxy,lJ > leads me to see the statement that you quoted as being about Clusters=20 > of : >=20 > 	VMS/Alpha systems,e > 	VMS Galaxy instances,6 > 	VMS/IPF systems and, picking up on Larry's comment,1 > 	VMS/VAX systems if a demand is shown by ISV's.  >=20B > Although why the latter shouldn't 'just work', in the VMS way of  > things, defeats me just a bit. >=20B > If HP/Compaq mean they won't qualify tri-architecture clusteringG > unless there is explicit 'customer demand', well I think they'd be=20r; > shooting themselves in the foot (it must be a centipede).a  D They put the trial balloon out their for supporting tri-architectureD clusters and the major customer demand they got was to _not_ qualifyG VAX.  It came from people who wanted a wedge to get their management to0' replace their VAXen with Alpha or IA64.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:22:53 +1100G1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>F Subject: Re: hung process , Message-ID: <3DE48EED.3000906@tg.nsw.gov.au>  > I experienced a similar to Chuck's a while ago.  Neither show 6 process/id= or stop/id= captured the little so-and-so.  G Luckily for me it was on my development box and I'd recently done some  F upgrades so thought it was time for a re-boot anyway.  That has to be  the ultimate solution.  E On a production system, I'd be inclined to log a call.  After asking   here first :-)   Regards, Paddy     Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:c > Hi Chuck,t > O > An easier way to look at a particular process, if you know its process id, istL > to type, "$show system/id=7654".  "$show system/full" yields many pages of$ > output (on my production systems). > > > One way to delete the process is by typing, "$stop/id=7654". > _ > In article <3DE3B942.2050106@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:  > 9 >>When I look at my dlt tape device it shows a process idg? >>7654 that has the device tied up. Is there a way to find thiso: >>process and delete it. That process id is not showing up >>under show system/full.t >>	 >>Thanks,M >>Chuckd >>J >>Magtape MAJOR$MKB600:, device type COMPAQ DLT8000, is online, allocated,N >>     deallocate on dismount, mounted foreign, volume is marked for dismount,K >>     record-oriented device, file-oriented device, available to cluster, 8 >>erroreF >>     logging is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction  >>enabled),   >>     device supports fastskip. >>@ >>     Error count                   20    Operations completed  >>     9727lL >>     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                 [STAFF]4 >>     Owner process ID        00007654    Dev Prot  >>S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ? >>     Reference count                2    Default buffer size s >>      512n >>? >>     Volume label            "ONBK03"    Relative volume no. A >>        0h= >>     Record size                    0    Transaction count u >>        1r7 >>     Mount status             Process    Mount count t >>        0,' >>     ACP process name              ""'2 >>     Density                  default    Format  >>Normal-11  >>7 >>   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, odd parity.d >> >>CHUCK> >>      G ***********************************************************************e  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedd> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviserB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.t  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid nA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the t= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with eC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesb> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:19:22 +0000)( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: hung processm* Message-ID: <3DE49C2A.3000609@bigfoot.com>   Chuck Aaron wrote:  9 > When I look at my dlt tape device it shows a process id ? > 7654 that has the device tied up. Is there a way to find thist: > process and delete it. That process id is not showing up > under show system/full.  >l	 > Thanks,c > Chuckw >eJ > Magtape MAJOR$MKB600:, device type COMPAQ DLT8000, is online, allocated,D >     deallocate on dismount, mounted foreign, volume is marked for  > dismount,FA >     record-oriented device, file-oriented device, available to > > cluster, errorE >     logging is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction e > enabled),, >     device supports fastskip.  > G >     Error count                   20    Operations completed     9727 K >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                 [STAFF] F >     Owner process ID        00007654    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WF >     Reference count                2    Default buffer size      512 >cF >     Volume label            "ONBK03"    Relative volume no.        0D >     Record size                    0    Transaction count        1> >     Mount status             Process    Mount count        0& >     ACP process name              "": >     Density                  default    Format Normal-11 >i6 >   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, odd parity. >g > CHUCK> >oG It might also be interesting to do an $acc/id=7654 to see who/what had e( the tape allocated and when/why it died.  D I seem to remember there was a 'feature' in a VMS release years ago E whereby it was possible to allocate the drive from one process, then pF mount it from another process, if the original process died the drive B still showed it as being the owner of the drive, you could try an C anal/sys and then sho proc/chan to see if any other processes have   channels open on the drive.S     --  ( Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend.  , Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2002 23:55:43 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) 3 Subject: Re: It's Official! Sun Listens. Hello, HP? = Message-ID: <8a646952.0211262355.37649eb8@posting.google.com>o  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DE433DF.773831E3@fsi.net>...B > Well, I guess it's official: in the race to engage the "industry5 > standard" market, Sun has committed it's resources:s > P > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/11/26/021126hnsolaris.xml?1126tuam >  > Sorry if that wraps. > G > In essence, it says Solaris-9 and Sun's ONE products will run on IA321E > long before a viable, quantity-shippable IA64 makes its appearance.. > I > This tells the world (not in so many words, of course) that Sun is morer/ > responsive to its customers than HP/Q or VMS.  > J > Guess I better get back in touch with that cat that wanted me to teach a6 > Solaris Admin. class at a local community college...   David,    @ If your summary is correct, it sound like Sun's taking two steps: backward! 32 bit architecture has long been abandon for 64 bits.(unless its the PC world)   Daryl Jonest   Daryl Jones.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:09:34 +0000e' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyy3 Subject: Re: It's Official! Sun Listens. Hello, HP?). Message-ID: <3DE4B5FE.9060405@nospamn.sun.com>   Daryl Jones wrote:b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DE433DF.773831E3@fsi.net>... > B >>Well, I guess it's official: in the race to engage the "industry5 >>standard" market, Sun has committed it's resources:  >>P >>http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/11/26/021126hnsolaris.xml?1126tuam >> >>Sorry if that wraps. >>G >>In essence, it says Solaris-9 and Sun's ONE products will run on IA32fE >>long before a viable, quantity-shippable IA64 makes its appearance.t >>I >>This tells the world (not in so many words, of course) that Sun is mores/ >>responsive to its customers than HP/Q or VMS.u >>J >>Guess I better get back in touch with that cat that wanted me to teach a6 >>Solaris Admin. class at a local community college... >  > 	 > David,   > B > If your summary is correct, it sound like Sun's taking two steps< > backward! 32 bit architecture has long been abandon for 64  > bits.(unless its the PC world) >   = I think David is refering to the fact that Sun announced thate> it would be abandoning x86 as a platform for Solaris some time ago.  = Since then the Solaris community has lobbied Sun to get us to@? recind the decision. We have now changed our mind and Solaris 90 will be available on x86.   @ David is I am sure comparing this with a number of decisons made> by Compaq where users have complained vociferously without any@ effect. David isn't I would suggest very interested in Solaris'sD availability for x86 though I could be wrong, its more the corporate mindset.  C As for 32bit vs 64bit in the space that x86 boxes currently operatevC there is not much need for a 64bit OS and platform. However SolarisOE x86 should port fairly easily to Hammer if Sun chooses to support it.e   Regards  Andrew HarrisonT   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:09:03 +0000o( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com>+ Subject: Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ... * Message-ID: <3DE499BF.4080209@bigfoot.com>   David Froble wrote:    > rob kas wrote: > @ > Does the number of users determine whether software is buggy?   = No but it (probably) reduces the chances of discovering bugs.M  D > Even if there was only one Solaris user in the world, the problem  > would still exist.    - True, but they probably wouldn't discover it.o       -- a( Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend.  , Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:58:02 -0500,( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ...h, Message-ID: <3DE3FC7A.6090203@tsoft-inc.com>   rob kas wrote:  7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0211260940.5d163e82@posting.google.com...l > 3 >>CERT counts continue to pile up except on VMS ...a >> >> >>G >               Could be because the VMS Machine counts are diminishinge > 9 >                                                     Rob1    Q Does the number of users determine whether software is buggy?  Even if there was cO only one Solaris user in the world, the problem would still exist.  Regardless  O of the number of VMS systems, would you care to show us all the security flaws M in VMS?    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:58:17 +0000r/ From: Andrew Harrison <andrew.harrison@sun.com>e+ Subject: Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ...m& Message-ID: <3DE4B359.2080907@sun.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >  > rob kas wrote: > 8 >> "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message: >> news:d7791aa1.0211260940.5d163e82@posting.google.com... >>5 >>> CERT counts continue to pile up except on VMS ...f >>>t >>>v > 4 > BS point, CERT has never been a reliable source of8 > information about security breaches in OpenVMS because9 > some advisories that have had an impact on OpenVMS haveW- > either had no response or an incorrect one.v > 	 > Regardse > Andrew HarrisonT >      -- e Andrew Harrisona Enterprise IT Architecta   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 08:18:34 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s+ Subject: Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ... 3 Message-ID: <3$4HLBgzRUUf@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  X In article <3DE4B359.2080907@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew.harrison@sun.com> writes: >>  5 >> BS point, CERT has never been a reliable source of09 >> information about security breaches in OpenVMS becausec: >> some advisories that have had an impact on OpenVMS have. >> either had no response or an incorrect one. >> o
 >> Regards >> Andrew Harrison >> k  F    This is true.  More reliable sources show that the assertion behind?    the misconcept is also true:  VMS has fewwer security holes.n  ;    Now if those other sources just would let me quote them.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:21:12 -0800a' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>n+ Subject: Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ...w8 Message-ID: <20021127082112.5159cda0.mathog@caltech.edu>  " On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:33:24 -0000+ "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> wrote: 1 > "rob kas" <rob@netcarrier.net> wrote in messaget/ > news:3de3e172$0$1416$8e9e3842@news.atx.net... 9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagep; > > news:d7791aa1.0211260940.5d163e82@posting.google.com... 7 > > > CERT counts continue to pile up except on VMS ...nI > >               Could be because the VMS Machine counts are diminishingeK > Maybe, but more likely that there are fewer bugs left in VMS than in most 
 > other OS's.x >a  @ Sure, and that is one direct result of there being much less newE code in VMS than in many other OS's.  (Never mind that the particular F bug that started this thread was pretty old.)  I don't know the actualE numbers but it wouldn't surprise me if there was as much new code in t6 Windows in the last 4 years as there is in all of VMS.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:36:59 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r+ Subject: Re: Just another Slowaris CERT ...eI Message-ID: <fh8F9.200026$MGm1.7832@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:3$4HLBgzRUUf@eisner.encompasserve.org...08 > In article <3DE4B359.2080907@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison! <andrew.harrison@sun.com> writes:l > >>7 > >> BS point, CERT has never been a reliable source ofa; > >> information about security breaches in OpenVMS because < > >> some advisories that have had an impact on OpenVMS have0 > >> either had no response or an incorrect one. > >> > >> Regards > >> Andrew Harrison > >> >dH >    This is true.  More reliable sources show that the assertion behindA >    the misconcept is also true:  VMS has fewwer security holes.m >i= >    Now if those other sources just would let me quote them.l    ! Certain three letter agencies????s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:07:22 -0500w; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>i6 Subject: Re: Netscape 2.02 & VAX/VMS 7.3 & Motif 1.2-6" Message-ID: <3de509fa@news.si.com>   >HP offers Netscape 2.02,   F No, HP offers Netscape V3.03, which should work fine with OpenVMS V7.3 -- tA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comoA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comi= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:56:19 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> D Subject: Re: NY LUG meeting - Disaster Tolerant Technologies from HPJ Message-ID: <n25F9.169585$YSz1.25561@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:as0k7l$i4v$1@web1.cup.hp.com...$ > NY Metro Local Users Group meeting >h > > Thursday, December 12  >t > > 5pm to 7pm >h" > > Registration starts at 4:30pm. >  > > HP offices >w3 > > 2 Penn Plaza ( 7th Avenue at 31st St) 8th Floorb >  > > wait at guard stationo >a  > > call 212-856-2000 for entry. >w > >s > , > > "Disaster Tolerant Technologies from HP" >.I > > including HP-UX, OpenVMS, Linux and Storage Keith Parris, Multivendor  > Systems Engineering  >J > >t >e0 > > "Customer Case Studies on Disaster Recovery" > ( > > Exchanges and Financial Institutions >g > >h > * > > Save the Date. More details to follow.    L Seems like an obvious presentation for streaming audio/video for those of us who can't attend in person.p  J And since it's being held at an HP office with tons of bandwidth availableE on-site, it would be a 'no brainer' to arrange??? Let's see...PC with J Real.com video server, a connected video camera, and a network connection.  J And having a dedicated e-mail address to receive remote audience questions during the presentation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:29:05 -0800e$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>D Subject: RE: NY LUG meeting - Disaster Tolerant Technologies from HP0 Message-ID: <01C295FF.EA2CF850@sulfer.icius.com>  G Somewhat OT, but worth noting since I know several people on this groupdC use Real Player. There's a buffer overrun in it that lets maliciousoH content providers run arbitrary code on your machine. It was reported, aH patch was issued, the guy who found the exploit posted details about it,C then they found the patch was ineffective. There's freely available D examples of the exploit floating on the web, and no effective patch.8 Browse www.theregister.co.uk for the story, specifically3 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/28308.html.T  , Not that I think HP would use it, of course.   Shane[  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:as0k7l$i4v$1@web1.cup.hp.com...$ > NY Metro Local Users Group meeting >  > > Thursday, December 12  >c > > 5pm to 7pm > " > > Registration starts at 4:30pm. >p > > HP offices >s3 > > 2 Penn Plaza ( 7th Avenue at 31st St) 8th Floors >a > > wait at guard stationj >   > > call 212-856-2000 for entry. >' > >  >e, > > "Disaster Tolerant Technologies from HP" > I > > including HP-UX, OpenVMS, Linux and Storage Keith Parris, Multivendors > Systems EngineeringM >, > >  >'0 > > "Customer Case Studies on Disaster Recovery" >n( > > Exchanges and Financial Institutions >6 > >t >9* > > Save the Date. More details to follow.    F Seems like an obvious presentation for streaming audio/video for those of usR who can't attend in person..  @ And since it's being held at an HP office with tons of bandwidth	 available E on-site, it would be a 'no brainer' to arrange??? Let's see...PC witha> Real.com video server, a connected video camera, and a network connection.   @ And having a dedicated e-mail address to receive remote audience	 questionsv during the presentation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:10:46 -08008$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com># Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger Flippingt0 Message-ID: <01C295A9.7A71DF90@sulfer.icius.com>  F VAXman complained about the American education system, he didn't blameG any particular party for it, and frankly it takes more than a couple ofeG administrations for it to get as bad as it looks from where I sit. ThataH doesn't make it a Right Wing Slam, that makes it an observation, and for# his children's sake, a lamentation.n  > I am not right wing, left wing, airplane wing or buffalo wing,G especially in this country where I don't have the right to vote and, asrF a non-citizen, shouldn't. I honestly couldn't tell you whether Bush isG Democrat or Republican, or which party's leans to which side; I neitheriC keep track nor care. It's none of my business, it's not my country.>F However, I agree with the statements VAXman made about education. WhatC does that make /me/ in your opinion, Atlant? Get that chip off your 	 shoulder.>   ShaneC   -----Original Message-----9 From: Atlant Schmidt [mailto:atlantnospam@mindspring.com]S( Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:12 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping     ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   ? > In article <3DE289F9.E1EA34BC@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt/% <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:t$ > >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > B > >> In article <3DE22992.7A447547@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt% <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:l' > >> >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > >> >B > >> >> but the kids will be with me and their NJ public schooling? > >> >> educated minds are not ready for that much stimulation.  > >> >3 > >> >I'm always amused at the Right Wing hypocricyn: > >> >that says that they can slip in gratuitous political8 > >> >slams whenever they wish, but woe unto any lefties5 > >> >who bring up politics in a technical newsgroup.  > >> > > >> >But nice try, VAXMAN.n > >> > > >> >Atlant > >>L > >> Perhaps if you lived in the US and not fantasy land, you'd see that theL > >> educational system is in a state of disarray.  How "slamming" this poorH > >> excuse of an educational system is "Right Wing hypocricy" fails me. > >r0 > >You're either missing or deliberately dodging4 > >my point. The topic was (at least for the moment)4 > >non-political. But you saw an opportunity to slip6 > >your little political stilleto in and make a Right-/ > >Wing snide remark slamming public education.  > >   > >So you took the opportunity.. > >n1 > >But would you have taken it as kindly if I hadM/ > >slipped in a Left Wing point in an otherwisen > >non-political discussion? > J > I believe the discussion was, at Mr. Harrison's suggestion, about takingK > my family on a tour of the Tate Modern.  The discussion was non-politicalVK > as you have pointed out but it was also non-technical.  You've alluded tooI > my introduction of the former into the latter which is simply not true.h  - Of course it's true. You slipped in a typical - Right Wing slam at American public education. , *THAT* was a political point, and denying it  now just makes you look foolish.    K > If it makes you any happier, yes, the americun edyoucayshun cystum is thetJ > graytest in the hole world!  I'm certain that 3/5 of all americuns (that+ > would be 75% right?) wood agree with you.y  1 Clearly a lot of Americans *ARE* poorly educated, 0 otherwise they would not have voted for a drunk,. cocaine-abusing, military-deserting, abortion-3 procuring, corrupt, war-mongering, ignorant asshole-6 for "President" in 2000; they would have realized that2 just because he'd make a fine drinking buddy (mind2 the pretzels, though, especially when he's half in0 the bag) doesn't mean he'd make a good leader of4 the free world or this formerly free, formerly great country.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:25:47 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com># Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger Flippinga0 Message-ID: <01C295AB.AF0F31B0@sulfer.icius.com>  H It's true, I can only speak of the examples I've met. Being just outsideH L.A. I've met a range of examples from different parts of America, but IE know better than to claim any statistical significance to the sample.p7 However, I am still waiting to be pleasantly surprised.   E Let's hope the next few presidents and presidential advisors are fromcG /good/ school districts. (Resists temptation to add a certain couple ofM" Bush jpegs as attachments... ;-) )   Shanes   -----Original Message-----B From: koehler@encompasserve.org [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]( Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:21 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come# Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger FlippingH    < In article <01C2948C.B0EBC950@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:H > I agree with VAXman on the education. When I came over to America fromJ > England, a bunch of other families came over with me. Every single childF > in the group found they were at least a year ahead of their peers atI > school, some quite a bit more so. They had to sit through things they'dtH > already covered until the American children caught up. Before you ask,7 > these were supposed to be very good American schools.h > C > I have no political axe to grind here, merely stating my personal6A > observation. America's educational system does not impress me. r  H    There's no such thing as "America's educational system".  The schools6    are run by the states, cities, towns, and counties.  @    From first hand experience:  when I was living in Illinois weD    reguarded the Catholic schools as inferior to the public schools.F    When I moved to New Jersey I was suprized to discover the opposite.  B    I'm guessing the quality of the Catholic schools were much moreF    uniform across the states.  I know the quality of public schools is    not.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:38:04 -0500o0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca># Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingg/ Message-ID: <3DE4845E.F5F6A6CF@vl.videotron.ca>a   Shane Smith wrote:H > a non-citizen, shouldn't. I honestly couldn't tell you whether Bush isI > Democrat or Republican, or which party's leans to which side; I neitherfE > keep track nor care. It's none of my business, it's not my country.u  H Now Now mr Smith, everyone knows that everyone outside of the USA has anL opinion of Bush Jr. So, if you are "from outside the USA", then you have theM "from outside the USA" opinion of Bush-Jr. If you are american, then you have M a variety of opinions on the guy in the white house (and/or ranch in crawfordr3 texas). Either way, you have an opinon of the guy. :  @ I think it would be very hard NOT to have an opinion of Bush Jr.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:56:00 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com># Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger Flippingo0 Message-ID: <01C295AF.D40CA890@sulfer.icius.com>  E Ah, but I'm of the opinion that /every/ politician is a pillock. It's E got nothing to do with which side they lean to or what opinions their @ advisors say they should express today. I'm an equal opportunity disparager. ;-)e   Shanep   -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]v+ Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:38 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping      Shane Smith wrote:H > a non-citizen, shouldn't. I honestly couldn't tell you whether Bush isI > Democrat or Republican, or which party's leans to which side; I neithersE > keep track nor care. It's none of my business, it's not my country.   H Now Now mr Smith, everyone knows that everyone outside of the USA has anH opinion of Bush Jr. So, if you are "from outside the USA", then you have thewH "from outside the USA" opinion of Bush-Jr. If you are american, then you haveD a variety of opinions on the guy in the white house (and/or ranch in crawford3 texas). Either way, you have an opinon of the guy. e  @ I think it would be very hard NOT to have an opinion of Bush Jr.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:56:33 -0500a! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>r# Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping.K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BA5@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   4 The comment about the employment pool reminded me of4 something I heard Dr. Margaret Mead say at a public 7 lecture given on the quad at the University of Georgia   in 1974 or 1975.  2 The crowd was given the opportunity to write down 6 questions down on index cards, which were then passed 5 to one side where they were collected and taken up to 
 the front.  7 Dr. Mead's response to the question 'What do you think  = about the current state of the American educational system?'   was something like:   3      It's all right, except for the fact that they a6   haven't moved into the twentieth century yet.  They /   make you sit in a room and listen to an oral  :   presentation of material that you could read in about a 9   twentieth of the time.  It's almost enough to make one i;   suspect that an additional goal of this methodology mighti-   be to delay your entry into the job market.n  , WWWebb     RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping  B On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:11:55 -0800, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:  G >I agree with VAXman on the education. When I came over to America fromdI >England, a bunch of other families came over with me. Every single child E >in the group found they were at least a year ahead of their peers atPH >school, some quite a bit more so. They had to sit through things they'dG >already covered until the American children caught up. Before you ask,p6 >these were supposed to be very good American schools.  6 I'm surprised noone had mentioned, so far, some of the@ implicit purposes behind public education in the States, namely,. day care,  and keeping 16,17, and 18 year olds out of the employment pool.s   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 08:13:51 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)># Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping 3 Message-ID: <ClC+JYHmk15J@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  W In article <01C29565.8DD07680@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: F > What really bugs me is that some people over here seem to think thatJ > America single handedly won the war and nobody else did anything useful. >   E    Thats because all our history teachers skipped WWI and WWII.  TheytA    figured what we learned from John Wayne would be close enough.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:40:52 GMTy1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)e# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippinge; Message-ID: <Uk8F9.71605$Kj1.3154550@twister.austin.rr.com>s  . Bob Koehler (koehler@encompasserve.org) wrote:? : In article <01C29565.8DD07680@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith - : <ssmith@icius.com> writes:H : > What really bugs me is that some people over here seem to think thatL : > America single handedly won the war and nobody else did anything useful. : >  : G :    Thats because all our history teachers skipped WWI and WWII.  TheyeC :    figured what we learned from John Wayne would be close enough.  : G That certainly applied to my education, and may explain why the Historyr$ Channel is popular with many people.  H It's doubtful that many people learned of American Indians' ownership of slaves:   .    http://www.coax.net/people/lwf/slave_rv.htm     CHEROKEE SLAVE REVOLT OF 1842  & or wartime Japan's Unit 731 in school:  9    http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/germwar/731rev.htmt5    Review of Japanese Biological Warfare and Unit 731e  :    http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/NanjingMassacre/NMU731.html%    Unit 731: History and New Evidence7  5    http://www1.odn.ne.jp/~cam39380/epage/epage139.htmF2    Pioneer of Biological Warfare, Japan (Unit 731)  B    http://roswell.fortunecity.com/skulls/37/unit731.htm  (pop-ups)    UNIT 731a   Its balloon bombsr  0    http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0298/bombsb.htm    Balloon Bombern  # or its submarine aircraft carriers:o  +    http://www.pacerfarm.org/i-400/i-400.htmh'    The Transpacific Voyage Of the I-400     2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailt   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:53:29 -0700 (MST)H" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>' Subject: Re: Pathworks Mac vs VMS 7.3-1uF Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0211270641010.9862-100000@athena.csdco.com>  ) On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Paul Anderson wrote:n  I > In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.0211201741390.29762-100000@athena.csdco.com>,6% > John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> wrote:i > L > > It's understood that this problem doesn't affect DPCS which is your mainN > > interest, however, the file server is non-functional except for a trivial J > > volume - I noticed that it would work if there were one or maybe a few
 > > files. > I > The volume I mounted is a directory with 489 files in it.  Well, that'sjG > what the Mac-mounted volume shows; a DCL DIRECTORY command shows 513,oC > excluding .MSAF$CAT files.  (I wonder where the 24 files went...)r > I > > The file server appears to be looping when msaf$server(n) attempts toa > > perform verification.a > 0 > I have partial verification set on the volume. >  > Paul >  > -- t >  Paul Anderson >   OpenVMS Engineeringa >   Hewlett-Packard Companye >    Paul,i  G I was able to verify your results.  After downgrading VMS from 7.3-1 touG 7.3, the server worked again.  The test volume has 1586 files includingn the control files.  I After reupgrading to 7.3-1 the volume mounted with partial verify withoutfH a problem.  Unmounting it, then remounting it with full verify caused an infinite loop.  J Rebooting 7.3 fixed the problem.  Something in 7.3-1 definitely appears toH break the server for normal use.  It almost appears that this is similar' to the CSWING bug which 7.3-1 revealed.   
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:32:17 GMTl* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>' Subject: Re: Pathworks Mac vs VMS 7.3-1 5 Message-ID: <271120021330539451%paul.anderson@hp.com>n  F In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.0211270641010.9862-100000@athena.csdco.com>,# John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> wrote:y  C > After reupgrading to 7.3-1 the volume mounted with partial verifytA > without a problem.  Unmounting it, then remounting it with full-! > verify caused an infinite loop.2  E So volumes mounted with partial verification work and those with fullj verification do not?  A > Rebooting 7.3 fixed the problem.  Something in 7.3-1 definitelyi- > appears to break the server for normal use.c  @ I've never paid attention to partial vs. full verification, as IC accepted the default of partial verification.  Partial verificationsG verifies the integrity of folders, while full verification verifies thee integrity of files and folders.t  B Although it sounds like V7.3-1 breaks full verification, if you're. willing to have partial verification it works.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringu   Hewlett-Packard Companys   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:10:54 +0100 (MET)m& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>. Subject: Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance6 Message-ID: <200211270810.JAA00491@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Matt Muggeridge wrotes:a   >>>aL Please provide at least the command line you used.  9.6MB/s for Ethernet andJ GbE smells like you are not using GbE or you have it throttled way back inH your configuration.  Did you verify you are using Jumbo Frames?  Are youH certain your configuration is not inadvertenly using Ethernet instead ofL GbE - check the interface counters ($ mcr lancp show dev /counter) also look' for any TCP errors, ($ netstat -p tcp).f  J Using ttcp, GbE, 33Mhz 64-bit PCI bus, between ES40s, I readily exceed 700 Mb/s.e <<<    May be this will clear:   C 	1. DTSEND: DATA/NODE=ES40_2/SIZE=4096/SECENDS=10/SPEED=1000000000;  	   Result: about 27% or 32MB/s ? 	2. COPY:   PIPE SH TIME ; COPY ES40_2::CONT128MB NL: ; SH TIME  	   Result: about 7% or 9.6MB/ss8 	3. TTCP: Server: ttcp -r -s ; Client: ttcp -r -s ES40_2E 	   Result: about 7% or 9.6MB/s best case, mostly about 5% or 6.5MB/s:  H The first test shows, that the line is Gigabit Ethernet, but with a poorE performance. Also an $LANCP SHOW DEVICE/PARAMETER show, that the lineeI speed is 1Gigabit and the mode is full duplex. An ANALYZE/SYSTEM SHOW LANnG shows that DECnet and TCPIP uses the same Gigabit Etherenet adapter. IfcI you did get 700Mb/s between two ES40s, where the ES40s connected directlyiF together, or was there a switch between the node? Second question: are- there any flow control enabled on the switch? I I did the same tests made with fast Ethernet adpater and this looks good.*G DTSEND: ~95% or 11.8MB/s; COPY: ~77% or 9.6MB/s; TTCP ~50% or 6.25MB/s.aH I don't like to use JUMBO frames. May be the switch between the nodes isE able to handle. But there also FastEthernet Alphas within the cluster J and so the JUMBO frames must be splitted. This will make a lot of trouble.   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 00:02:41 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)d Subject: Re: Recursive Deletiony= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0211270002.4a6e8313@posting.google.com>r  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DE40A93.D4DDF5F4@vl.videotron.ca>...bN > I haven't tried this, but would BACKUP/DELETE [...]*.*;*  nla0:save.set/save/ > delete the whole directory tree in one pass ?c  A Yes and no. It does delete all files, EXCEPT all directory files!w  	 Bart Zorna   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:36:04 +1100*1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>- Subject: Re: Recursive Deletion1, Message-ID: <3DE49204.5040308@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Bart Zorn wrote:i > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DE40A93.D4DDF5F4@vl.videotron.ca>...  > N >>I haven't tried this, but would BACKUP/DELETE [...]*.*;*  nla0:save.set/save/ >>delete the whole directory tree in one pass ?a >  > C > Yes and no. It does delete all files, EXCEPT all directory files!  >  > Bart Zornt  E It has been mentioned before, but isn't it time that .DIR files were    created with default protection.  A It becomes a pain in the posterior to have to go through the set e6 file/prot bizzo before deleting a directory structure.  = After all, the directory cannot be deleted until it is empty.o  C Then a simple symbol to do delete [...]*.*;*,*.*;*, etc 8 times is r: easier than the .COM files that effect the set prot first.  E For all the problems encountered recently with SWING starting from a  I 7.3-1 (?) VMS release, I like that program for that simple reason that I GE do not have to worry about hassle if I delete a directory structure.   (And I'm still on 7.2-1.)l  H Yep, SWING might be a nasty way to go, but I've never had problems with E self-discipline.  By default, my users get the version compiled such  H that it honours protection, but many of them feel self disciplined too, " so I have a second foreign symbol.   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************H  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged/> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advisenB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.d  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid eA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the u= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with aC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses3> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:58:12 -0500t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Recursive Deletionr/ Message-ID: <3DE40A93.D4DDF5F4@vl.videotron.ca>m  L I haven't tried this, but would BACKUP/DELETE [...]*.*;*  nla0:save.set/save- delete the whole directory tree in one pass ?f   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 06:11:48 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Recursive Deletioni= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0211270611.57af0140@posting.google.com>t  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DE40A93.D4DDF5F4@vl.videotron.ca>....N > I haven't tried this, but would BACKUP/DELETE [...]*.*;*  nla0:save.set/save/ > delete the whole directory tree in one pass ?b     Yes, it would. However,s  / $ BACKUP/DELETE [...] NL:A.B/SAVE/GROUP=0/NOCRC-  G or if you're worried about the /DELETE deletes the wrong files bug, usem  6 $ BACKUP/VERIFY/DELETE [...] NL:A.B/SAVE/GROUP=0/NOCRC  J No point wasting resources calculating CRC's and making redundancy groups.     IIRC, using DFU is the fastest.      Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 08:12:38 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y Subject: Re: Recursive Deletionm3 Message-ID: <1CoT+YPi$TMr@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  b In article <3DE40A93.D4DDF5F4@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:N > I haven't tried this, but would BACKUP/DELETE [...]*.*;*  nla0:save.set/save/ > delete the whole directory tree in one pass ?t  F    Almost.  In fact, this is what CDE uses when you delete a diretory.0    The problem is it leaves the directory files.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 07:50:27 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Recursive Deletion = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0211270750.2ee8640f@posting.google.com>'  e Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message news:<3DE49204.5040308@tg.nsw.gov.au>...P > Bart Zorn wrote:k > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DE40A93.D4DDF5F4@vl.videotron.ca>...r > > P > >>I haven't tried this, but would BACKUP/DELETE [...]*.*;*  nla0:save.set/save1 > >>delete the whole directory tree in one pass ?  > >  > > E > > Yes and no. It does delete all files, EXCEPT all directory files!n > > 
 > > Bart Zorne > G > It has been mentioned before, but isn't it time that .DIR files were i" > created with default protection. > C > It becomes a pain in the posterior to have to go through the set t8 > file/prot bizzo before deleting a directory structure. > ? > After all, the directory cannot be deleted until it is empty.b    @ Possible reasons that *.DIR are still protected from deletion by default:  E 1.) To avoid inadvertently renaming *.DIR files when running commands- like RENAME *.* [another-dir].  > 2.) To avoid problems with incremental backups by discouraging renaming thereof.J     [...]      Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanB $ SHOW SYMBOL A&P  ! &-)'   A&P == "Atlantic and Pacific Tea Co."    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:06:31 -0800b# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o Subject: RE: Recursive Deletion 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEFBGCAA.tom@kednos.com>   A A COPY/DELETE similar to unix 'mv' would be useful,  maybe even at /RECURSIVE qualifier.o   >-----Original Message-----.6 >From: Alan E. Feldman [mailto:spamsink2001@yahoo.com]+ >Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 7:50 AMo >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >Subject: Re: Recursive Deletion >  >j> >Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message ) >news:<3DE49204.5040308@tg.nsw.gov.au>...  >> Bart Zorn wrote:@A >> > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message 3, >news:<3DE40A93.D4DDF5F4@vl.videotron.ca>... >> > e? >> >>I haven't tried this, but would BACKUP/DELETE [...]*.*;*    >nla0:save.set/savec2 >> >>delete the whole directory tree in one pass ? >> >   >> >  F >> > Yes and no. It does delete all files, EXCEPT all directory files! >> > r >> > Bart Zorn >> tH >> It has been mentioned before, but isn't it time that .DIR files were # >> created with default protection.V >> sD >> It becomes a pain in the posterior to have to go through the set 9 >> file/prot bizzo before deleting a directory structure.  >> 1@ >> After all, the directory cannot be deleted until it is empty. >j >:A >Possible reasons that *.DIR are still protected from deletion by@	 >default:  >rF >1.) To avoid inadvertently renaming *.DIR files when running commands >like RENAME *.* [another-dir].m >r? >2.) To avoid problems with incremental backups by discouragingl >renaming thereof. >c >t >[...] >t >i >Disclaimer: JMHO  >Alan E. Feldman >$ SHOW SYMBOL A&P  ! &-)v( >  A&P == "Atlantic and Pacific Tea Co." >b >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).rB >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 >o --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:43:16 -0500U; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>s Subject: Re: Recursive Deletionh$ Message-ID: <3de4f643$1@news.si.com>   >* From the command line,r >a) >    $ set file [...]*.dir;* /prot=o=rwedt >    $ delete [...]*.*;*   Make that last command  ( $ delete [...]*.*;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*  4 to clear out the entire tree, including directories. --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comS= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventu< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:47:24 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: Recursive Deletion ; Message-ID: <01KPDDC746WOA24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  * > $ delete [...]*.*;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;* > 6 > to clear out the entire tree, including directories.  : Is this behaviour "supported" or does it work "by chance"?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:59:55 GMTx+ From: "Bill Johnson" <res0xcil@verizon.net>b" Subject: Re: Remote Console access3 Message-ID: <fOUE9.1825$Sb.87@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>e   Bart:lI     GREAT! The offer will be good through lets say June -2003. I know ourtL marketing folks have some other things working that may be of more interest.+ I have to wait on those to come out though.t  J     We WILL be very happy to work with you and help get you upgraded! Just% let us know - we can be contacted at:w       TECSys Development     1600 10th Street     Suite B      Plano, Texas  75074      972-881-1553     sales@tditx.comq     www.tditx.coml  
 Best Regards,s
     --Bill2 "Bart Zorn" <Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl> wrote in message7 news:a98cd882.0211140832.78e8df29@posting.google.com...m > Hi, Bill,R >J@ > I would like to take you up on your offer. We have three GS160A > systems, each with it's own billybox console. The three consolee= > systems are not even networked together as per the Wildfirec > documentation. > @ > However, we must arrange for one or two OpenVMS systems to run/ > ConsoleWorks on and that will take some time.R >aG > We also have Console Manager licenses around and that makes a serioush > competition. >s@ > If your offer is not time-limited, you may be hearing from me. >>@ > Anyway, your statement DOES shed another light on the Wildfire > consoles!a >s
 > Regards, >  > Bart Zornu > 8 > "Bill Johnson" <res0xcil@verizon.net> wrote in message1 news:<At_y9.4053$Dl.1789@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...iK > > Hi All! I work for TECSys Development and some of our engineers pointedlL > > me to this thread today for follow-up. I must say first off, I worked on the I > > agreement with Compaq to put our ConsoleWorks product on and NT basedo PC.o > >wF > >     Frankly, while I did not agree with the thought of having a PC running0J > > NT and our product on it managing the 1+million dollar box with a realH > > operating system like OpenVMS or T64, we were TOLD by Compaq ProductJ > > Management that if we wanted to play we had to port our product to NT. MindL > > you - IT DID NOT RUN ON NT at the time! We had to port it from VMS to NT to > > make that happen.i > >ID > >     For those of you who ACTUALLY have a GS BOX with an NT basedI > > ConsoleWorks, and would like to UPGRADE to ConsoleWorks on OpenVMS or  Tru64 G > > Unix - Better yet any OTHER operating system we support, Contact me:H > > personally at b_johnson@tditx.com/nospam-please and I will see to it that if$K > > you send TDi proof of ownership for the NT version, We will UPGRADE youo foriC > > **FREE** to the same configuration of consoleworks on ANY OTHER.	 operatingo > > system we support! > >hI > >     And, YES we have scan files for ALL HP related Operating systems,t) > > hardware and network gear like Cisco.  > >PH > >     When you contact me for the FREE upgrade, please send your name, phone H > > number, company etc and YES, I will most likely have to have a sales personH > > call you to confirm all the details etc, but that's because I travel alot. > > working with customers and other partners. > >sE > >     As a side note, we now have integrated consoleworks with BMC,a brocadetJ > > SAN switches and HSV controllers as well. More coming in the very near > > future.  > >n > > Regards, > >g > > Bill Johnson > > President/CEO' > > TECSys Development > > 1600 10th Street > > Suite Bo > > Plano, Texas  75074d > > http://www.tditx.com > > 800-695-1258 > >  > >r > >? > >' > >. > >w > > 6 > > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message > >kL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660B21@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. > > ..4 > > Re: secure access to remote console solutions... > >-G > > >>> DO these wonders of modern mentation have any *tested* *secure*@8 > > recomendations for replacing the LAT/TS consoles?>>> > >h/ > > Check out SSH offerings with ConsoleWorks -s6 > > http://www.tditx.com/news_events_press.html#062502H > > "...ConsoleWorks latest release features the ConsoleWorks secure Web@ > > server with Secure Socket Layer (SSL) and Secure Shell (SSH)J > > capabilities. SSL provides an encrypted communication path between theI > > Web browser and the ConsoleWorks Web server, and the SSH capabilitieseH > > provide encryption between ConsoleWorks and the terminal server. TDIE > > built the secure Web server to ensure that our customers have theyI > > highest level of security for their enterprise management software. "  > >ID > > http://www.tditx.com/products_cwks_security.html - whitepaper on > > security and console accessn > >a > > Related article:C > > http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2002/1014/tec-mgt1-10-14-02.asprK > > "...In June, TECSys Development LP added Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) and.B > > Secure Shell (SSH) capabilities to its ConsoleWorks product, aH > > Web-based, out-of-band management tool. Together, SSL and SSH enableB > > encrypted communication between the user's Web browser and theH > > ConsoleWorks server, and between the ConsoleWorks server and managed
 > > devices."  > >e > > Regards  > >' > > Kerry Main > > Solutions ArchitectR  > > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.% > > Consulting & Integration Services  > > Voice: 613-592-4660l > > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com > >a > >a > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: Richard Brodie [mailto:R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk]l" > > Sent: November 6, 2002 8:33 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como& > > Subject: Re: Remote Console access > >. > >w > > = > > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message + > > news:87pttig975.fsf@prep.synonet.com...  > >sJ > > > The really nice thing about LAT, is that it is idiot resistant. TheyF > > > can screw you over, but they have to work at it harder. DO theseK > > > wonders of modern mentation have any *tested* *secure* recomendationsg( > > > for replacing the LAT/TS consoles? > >A% > > Well picking something at random:a- > > http://www.ute.de/vts_terminal_server.htmrK > > If you're just going to slap a remote Telnet box on the public network,tJ > > that is making life easy for attackers. However, things have moved on,J > > and if you care about security you don't provide remote console access > > in the clear.n >r   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 00:19:06 -0800+ From: serge.simon@internet.lu (Serge Simon)t4 Subject: Setcim -> ABB-Bailey interface on DEC Alpha= Message-ID: <8b58e65c.0211270019.1b4f4977@posting.google.com>p   Hello,  G We are currently looking for some experience in implementing the Setcim,G interface (AspenTech) on a DEC Alpha platform AXP interfacing a Bailey a Infi90 system.E Although Setcim will run on that platform, we do not know if all the uH Setcim CIU libraries will run on that machine, we wonder if anybody has 0 done similar setup on the Alpha platform before.H The current application was setup in '95 and is running on a normal VAX.H Intend is to use Setcim V4.8 on the Alpha machine. The system shall use $ the existing ICI01 serial interface.  B Another possibility would be use of a product called "DECmigrate".D DECmigrate translates OpenVMS VAX and ULTRIX RISC applications into > programs that run on Alpha. Regardless of the source language.  - Maybe somebody has experience on that matter.    Thanx in advance for any reply:  -Serge-e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:21:35 -0500a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>' Subject: TCPIP programming: URGent flagh/ Message-ID: <3DE4AAA4.B1A5AAE0@vl.videotron.ca>l  L A simple application on VAX-VMS establishes a connection to a remote server.  G When using TCPTRACE, the URG flag is set for packets transmitted by the L application. For some reason, the receiving server dislikes this and ignores such packets (POP server).  J I can't seem to find any documentation on how to set or clear this flag on$ VMS. (seems to be fairly low level).  N Also, at that level, does anyone have any explaination on why a server process1 (the pop server) would ignore all such packets ? e  J The problem seems to exist for both V5.0 and 5.3 of TCPIP services on VAX. (which is ata 7.2)  L Since the same application has no problem talking to non-VMS servers outsideN my LAN, is it possible that routers at the ISP and on internet would clear the
 URG flag ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:11:48 GMTo: From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <John.Gemignani@youknow.where>+ Subject: Re: TCPIP programming: URGent flag - Message-ID: <3DE4B4B3.19F7DE83@youknow.where>i   JF Mezei wrote:v > N > A simple application on VAX-VMS establishes a connection to a remote server. > I > When using TCPTRACE, the URG flag is set for packets transmitted by the.N > application. For some reason, the receiving server dislikes this and ignores > such packets (POP server). > L > I can't seem to find any documentation on how to set or clear this flag on& > VMS. (seems to be fairly low level). > P > Also, at that level, does anyone have any explaination on why a server process2 > (the pop server) would ignore all such packets ? > L > The problem seems to exist for both V5.0 and 5.3 of TCPIP services on VAX. > (which is ata 7.2) > N > Since the same application has no problem talking to non-VMS servers outsideP > my LAN, is it possible that routers at the ISP and on internet would clear the > URG flag ?    B URG is the URGENT DATA flag.  Packets which contain this flag alsoC contain an urgent (expedited) data pointer.  To send such data, thehH client uses the flag MSG_OOB (out-of-band/expedited data).  You can onlyF send one byte of OOB data at a time (actually, you can send as much asG you want but only the first byte is treated as OOB).  You can only have0E one byte of OOB data outstanding at any time ... that is, if you sendeH two OOBs back-to-back, then the second will supercede the first assuming0 that the peer hasn't already read the first one.  E The behavior on the "receiver" (peer) is different.  When OOB data isaH received, an AST can be delivered to indicate its arrival.  The receiverH can read OOB data explicitly using MSG_OOB, or can tell the network thatH it really doesn't want that behavior and would prefer to receive the OOBF in the data stream by setsockopt with the socket option SO_OOBINLINE. F If the OOB's position is important, then ioctl can be used to check ifB the read/recv position is at the OOB character with the SIOCATMARK/ function (returns TRUE if so, FALSE otherwise).f  G TELNET uses this to handle sending the various control characters whichaE flush the stream.  For example, if you hit ^C then an internal TELNEThH MARK character is inserted into the data stream, and an OOB interrupt isD sent.  The TELNET server receives the OOB interrupt as soon as it itC received (it's URGENT data so it gets there before anything else). dF TELNET server then scans the input until hit finds the MARK character,  discarding the intervening data.  F Getting back to POP, it uses the SO_OOBINLINE, so it sees the OOB data? in the regular data stream.  It does not sense ATMARK, so it iss basically ignoring OOB data.  F I am able to TELNET (with our TELNET) to our POP server.  The commandsD that I entered are prefixed with ">>>", and are not normally echoed.     LADDIE;1$ telnet lassie 110I* %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 16.20.208.1004 %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host lassie, port 1106 +OK TCPIP POP server V5.3-18B, OpenVMS V7.2-2 Alpha at4 lassie.ucx.lkg.dec.com, up since 2002-11-14 23:59:179 <2060012F.27_NOV_2002_12_08_00_65@lassie.ucx.lkg.dec.com>u >>>USER GEMIGNANIo% +OK Password required for "gemignani"-, >>>PASS I_WILL_KEEP_THIS_TO_MYSELF_THANK_YOU$ +OK Username/password combination ok >>>LISTo +OK 0 messages (0 octets)H .u >>>QUITp; +OK TCPIP POP server at lassie.ucx.lkg.dec.com signing off.n  - %TELNET-S-REMCLOSED, Remote connection closede4 -TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host lassie, port 110   -Johnn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:33:33 +0000I( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Re: TIFF processing on VMS?) Message-ID: <3DE4835D.309EBAE1@127.0.0.1>    John Nebel wrote:o > L > Does anyone know of a VMS program for rezizing large TIFFs?  I've ended upL > with several 1.8 GB TIFFs which exceed anything than can be processed withJ > Photoshop on a Mac.  Resizing them down for the time being is a possible > solution.p   have you tried XV?   http://www.trilon.com/xv/    -- h? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesa nclews at csc dot com:   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:12:07 GMTu+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>0+ Subject: Re: totally OT: terminal emulatorsi< Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0211262304460.2090-100000@jaipur>  C If you are "in the market" for Windows terminal emulators, I'd alsot: recommend you try CRT/SecureCRT from Vandyke Technologies.   http://www.vandyke.com  J The product contains excellent emulation and many wonderful features.  CRTC and SecureCRT have the same features except that SecureCRT includesi' SSH1 and SSH2 support (if you need it).n  H They have been upgrading the product for a couple years now, and supportB have been wonderful.  You can get a 30-day evalution copy at theirF website.  I'm a very happy user of their product.  You get one year ofH upgrades when you purchase the product.  Less expensive upgrade licensesC are available if you want to upgrade after your year is up.  It's ae reasonable scheme.  * On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Kesav Tadimeti wrote:	 > Hi all,oL > We got a CD of pathworks along with other VMS-related CDs when we bought aL > DS-10. The Pathworks CD contains PowerTerm which is a terminal emulator. IN > would like to know about its licensing details. Is it an evaluation copy, or@ > does come with a single-use license or unlimited-user license. >0G > Any help will be appreciated. I am not very happy with our ReflectionH2 > emulator - eats up a lot of CPU time on Windows.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:15:15 +1100y1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>g+ Subject: Re: totally OT: terminal emulatorst, Message-ID: <3DE48D23.1000302@tg.nsw.gov.au>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Kesav Tadimeti wrote:w > 	 >>Hi all,sL >>We got a CD of pathworks along with other VMS-related CDs when we bought aL >>DS-10. The Pathworks CD contains PowerTerm which is a terminal emulator. IN >>would like to know about its licensing details. Is it an evaluation copy, or@ >>does come with a single-use license or unlimited-user license. >>G >>Any help will be appreciated. I am not very happy with our Reflection 2 >>emulator - eats up a lot of CPU time on Windows. >  >  > ???!!! > H > If you have to worry about how much CPU Reflection eats up on Windows,A > you've got more serious problems to consider than just terminald > emulation! > I > I'd be more worried about Micro$lop like LookOut, Word, Excel, ... thane
 > Reflection!n >  I agree with David.5  E Ensure that you have the best emulator (fonts, etc) and to hell with  I what CPU it consumes on the PC.  I assume you're connecting to a VMS box rH to get real work done -- that to me is the only possible use anyone can I put a PC to.  Ah, I forgot that running Solitaire or Pinball or Mine are oJ very important tasks on a PC.  Everything with accompanying "Easter Eggs".  E All my colleagues (forced into using PCs) have several Reflection or rH eXcursion sessions logged on to our production Alphaserver.  Since they I do not have to cope with Micro$lop (David's nice expression) gimmicks (I  H cannot call the so-called programs anything other than that), they have ) no problems with their emulator sessions.W   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************0  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged-> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.h  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid oA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the y= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with nC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses-> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************5   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:13:49 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: totally OT: terminal emulatorse/ Message-ID: <3DE47EB1.FB743A4D@vl.videotron.ca>u   Ryan Moore wrote:a > E > If you are "in the market" for Windows terminal emulators, I'd alsor< > recommend you try CRT/SecureCRT from Vandyke Technologies.  N And you may wish to look into Kermit for Windows.  (how long before Mr da Cruz chimes in ? :-  K My impression is that the kermit software has perhaps the most compliant VTwI terminal emulator. And it has a very complete scripting language as well.C   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:53:00 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: Re: totally OT: terminal emulatorsW4 Message-ID: <gu1F9.119624$up.1289892@news.chello.at>   In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C26091E505@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>, Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes:K >We got a CD of pathworks along with other VMS-related CDs when we bought atK >DS-10. The Pathworks CD contains PowerTerm which is a terminal emulator. I M >would like to know about its licensing details. Is it an evaluation copy, ors@ >does come with a single-use license or unlimited-user license.   5 It is software covered with the PATHWORKS-32 license. + Technically, it does not check its license.   + 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks32/n  F >Any help will be appreciated. I am not very happy with our Reflection2 >emulator - eats up a lot of CPU time on Windows.   H Then resist M$ and use a real opsys instead. Linux comes also to mind...   -- 2 Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER.% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2002 06:10:51 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)+ Subject: Re: totally OT: terminal emulators = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0211270610.6baa568c@posting.google.com>a   Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote in message news:<8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C26091E505@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>...'	 > Hi all,tL > We got a CD of pathworks along with other VMS-related CDs when we bought aL > DS-10. The Pathworks CD contains PowerTerm which is a terminal emulator. IN > would like to know about its licensing details. Is it an evaluation copy, orA > does come with a single-use license or unlimited-user license.   > G > Any help will be appreciated. I am not very happy with our Reflectionk3 > emulator - eats up a lot of CPU time on Windows. u >  > With thanks..n > keshav  ; powerterm is a good emulator, but if you need ssh2 then trye powerterm pro from ericom ...    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2002 08:09:20 GMT7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) + Subject: Re: totally OT: terminal emulatorsi! Message-ID: <4mgOmobfJo7e@rabbit>h   Hi,e  ? I actually use this product - it is free (no licensing needed).n  O That said, I find it harder to set up and use than either Reflection or Kermit.eN I also find that it is not as "configurable" as either of those two products. O I also recently found an issue that Kermit or Reflection had no issue with, butr% one that caused PowerTerm some grief.2  O We have a two-node cluster, with a round-robin cluster alias externally defined2J to our cluster (we are not running BIND on our machines, and are thereforeN dependent on our networking group to provide DNS for us).  We were testing theO cluster alias by disabling inbound TELNET on one of the cluster nodes, and thenpO asking our customers to TELNET to the cluster alias, to see if any connectivityi issues existed.   N Our customers use RUMBA - RUMBA failed, in many cases, to find the "surviving"O node, even upond repeated connects/disconnects.  Kermit and Reflection had *no*lO issue connecting to the "live" machine; apprently, the software is smart enoughf; to do a subsequent DNS lookup if the "first" attempt fails.i  N PowerTerm also "failed" this test, in the same way that RUMBA failed.  PerhapsO the "licensed" version of PowerTerm will work better, but my advice is to spendiD the money on Kermit or Reflection (I like Kermit's price better than Reflection).   In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C26091E505@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>, Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes:	 > Hi all,:L > We got a CD of pathworks along with other VMS-related CDs when we bought aL > DS-10. The Pathworks CD contains PowerTerm which is a terminal emulator. IN > would like to know about its licensing details. Is it an evaluation copy, orA > does come with a single-use license or unlimited-user license. u > G > Any help will be appreciated. I am not very happy with our Reflectionn3 > emulator - eats up a lot of CPU time on Windows.   >  > With thanks..n > keshav -- s Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"b "Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:53:23 +0000P2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>- Subject: [OT] FORTRAN-based accounting systemM4 Message-ID: <20021127185322.A31147@eisenschmidt.org>  D May or may not be/have been on VMS, but are any of you familiar with( an accounting system written in FORTRAN?   -- M/ John W. Eisenschmidt (jweisen@eisenschmidt.org)g.   http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/pgp.html  $ "Left is right, and Right is wrong."   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.656 ************************G shows that DECnet and TCPIP uses the same Gigabit Etherenet adapter. IfcI you did get 700Mb/s between two ES40s, where the ES40s connected dirMɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    Mɪ    