1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 11 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 561       Contents: Re: 'hobbyist' vms0 Re: A warning to use bounds checking in BASIC(?)7 Re: Alphaserver 4100 + 2 FC LP-8000 (freezing/reseting) ' Are there TK50 images for VMS avalable? + Re: Are there TK50 images for VMS avalable? . Re: C - overlaying variables in the same PSECT? Re: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution ? Re: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution  ev6 still beats Itanium II Re: File convert ? Re: Hobbyist kit Contents 2 Re: Hobbyist kit Contents - some rambling thoughts2 Re: Hobbyist kit Contents - some rambling thoughts Re: legato for Openvms Re: Mozilla and CSS # Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey # Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey * Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and TCPware 5.6 question) Re: OVMS Concurrent user (update license) & Re: OVMS Samba and Win2000 Native mode0 Re: Problem copying large files from VMS to Unix0 Re: Problem copying large files from VMS to Unix RE: singular and plural of VAX RE: singular and plural of VAX Re: singular and plural of VAX Re: singular and plural of VAX Re: singular and plural of VAXC Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... 3 Re: Why slow system when using logical search list? ( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 03:27:17 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: 'hobbyist' vms ; Message-ID: <3da628f5.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   , David Webb (david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk) wrote:B > Torsten Mattfeldt <torsten.mattfeldt@medizin.uni-ulm.de> writes:D > > Can I download ts10 for vax-emulation under Linux somewhere too? > F > Sorry I've never run any of these emulators myself. Hence I've never, > needed to find out where to download them.H > Hopefully someone else on comp.os.vms will be able to provide you with > the appropriate URLs.   " ftp://ftp.firesword7.net/pub/ts10/   cu,    Martin --  G  Your mouse has moved.     | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4  Windows must be restarted | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deH  for the change to take    |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/;  effect. Reboot now? [OK]  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:33:51 -0700 2 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com>9 Subject: Re: A warning to use bounds checking in BASIC(?) 3 Message-ID: <ao59rm$lnc$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>   > > > Based upon your output, I would guess that INTEGER default > > is LONG (4 bytes). > > A > > NoBounds checking means that array bounds will not be checked A > > at run time.  If you exceed the array bound, you get what you < > > get.  You may stomp on other data fields, you may access= > > allocated but unused memory, or you may attempt to access A > > (read or write) outside your allocated memory.  If the latter ? > > happens you will get an ACCVIO error.  You might even stomp  > > on string headers. > > ; > > Int_Array1 has 6 elements (0 to 5) and Int_Array2 has 4 B > > elements (0 to 3).  The compiler probably allocates Int_Array2> > > immediatly after Int_Array1 in the same PSECT.  There's no> > > gap in allocation between these two arrays.  Other integer? > > data may follow in the same PSECT, but aligned on an 8 byte 
 > > boundary.  > > ? > > I have a rather large program that uses no bounds checking, < > > but the code that accesses arrays is well controlled and= > > doesn't exceed array bounds and on occasion does it's own > > > array bounds checking.  I get a 10% reduction in CPU usage" > > in some modules by doing this. > >  > D > And on the other side of the coin I once maintained an application? > with several hundred .EXEs. The performance hit involved with ? > bounds checking was not measurable for this application, so I 1 > recompiled the lot with bound checking enabled.  > B > The benefit was _huge_ in that I was able to get straight to theC > code concerned from a fax of the traceback file and usually get a A > tested fix in the post the same day (back in the days when most  > sites didn't have a modem).  >  > -- > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland   ; As in most applications, 90% of a programs time is spent in = less than 10% of the code.  It is this 10% that I've analyzed 0 in great detail and done a lot of optimizations.  8 BASIC has another feature in the compiler.  I think it's4 called /NOSETUP, (I'm out of town now and don't have; access to my old manuals), but I don't think it's currently 8 documented.  It can dramatically improve the performance; of external subroutine, but it also severly limits what you 9 can do.  When using this feature you can not do any error 7 trapping, RMS I/O (unless directly calling RMS), or any 5 dynamic string manipulation.  It's not usable in many 4 applications, but if you've segmented your code into: hundreds of small external routines like I've done, proper3 use of this feature gives you a very big payback in  some instances.   6 For example, my software supports every native Vax and8 Alpha datatype, plus dozens of non-native types.  I have: two routines that do datatype conversions and in some jobs7 are called millions of times.  Rewriting these routines 4 so that they could be comiled with /NOSETUP, yielded# tremendous performance improvement.    <Preach mode on>: Getting back to bounding checking...  Properly written and6 tested code shouldn't need bounds checking.  Having it; allows us BASIC programmers to get lazy a bit.  Having said 7 this, I wish C had bounds checking and I wish Microsoft : would use it.  How many times have you heard of C programs: that have memory leaks or buffer overflows.  At least if C5 had such a feature, the software that is commercially   produced would be more reliable. <Preach mode off>    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:55:19 -0400 ! From: kuff@comcast.net (Cable NJ) @ Subject: Re: Alphaserver 4100 + 2 FC LP-8000 (freezing/reseting)O Message-ID: <3989DC09DC5E556A.58D40A2F5BA97D06.323B2E7CF31043AE@lp.airnews.net>   I    That is a known problem... there are two PCI busses on this box... you  were on the wrong one..       F In article <20021010165446.99067.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio) Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:   B > The AS-4100 didnt hang since yesterday when we changed the slot.? > May be it is a problem related to the second bus with a FC !   >  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC  5 > --- Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:  > > Dirk > > E > > Thew AS-4100 has the lastest versions of firmware and the FC too! K > > This morning my server freezed two times. At the second time we changed = > > the slot of the new FC to another slot (other bus). Until J > > now the server didt freeze. I must wait until 15:00-16:00 hrs, because& > > it is the peak time of server use. > > P > > If the machine dont freeze again, may be the problem is related to the other. > > bus. I had a machine check related to IOD. > >  > > regards  > > FC  ' > > --- Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote: P > > > Did you upgrade the firmware of the AS-4100 (and maybe of the FC cards )?.J > > > The 4100 has 2 or 4 pci busses ( I always  confuse the 4000 and the N > > > 4100). Put every FC card in its own PCI bus, and all should work well I  > > > guess.G > > > Are you sure the EMC has all the necesarry patches and settings ? K > > > And please do use multipath, you can still do a bit of I/O balancing  M > > > with that. You will be a lot happier with automatic failover if one of  ( > > > the paths fails, I can assure you. > > >  > > > Regards,
 > > > Dirk > > >  > > > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > > >  > > > >Dear Sirs > > > > 8 > > > >We installed an aditional Fibre Channel (FC) card@ > > > >in our AS-4100, and since then, the server is hanging andE > > > >reseting. Any considerations about two FC cards (no multipath) A > > > >in AS-4100 ? I was thinking in the possibility of this old C > > > >server with old bus, dont support two FC cards. We splitted  = > > > >the disks in the EMC for I/O balancing (no multipath).  > > > >  > > > > B > > > >OpenVMS 7.2-1h1  (last patches applied UPDATE 5.0 + FC 5.0) > > > >  > > > >  > > > >Regards > > > > 	 > > > >FC  > > > >  > > > >=====! > > > >==========================  > > > >Fbio dos Santos Cardoso  > > > >OpenVMS System Manager  > > > >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > > >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ! > > > >==========================  > > > > 9 > > > >__________________________________________________  > > > >Do you Yahoo!? 9 > > > >Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More  > > > >http://faith.yahoo.com 	 > > > >    > > > >  > > >  > >  > > 	 > > =====  > > ========================== > > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > > OpenVMS System Manager > > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > > ========================== > > 6 > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!?6 > > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More > > http://faith.yahoo.com >  >  > =====  > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!?4 > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More > http://faith.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:09:02 GMT * From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>0 Subject: Are there TK50 images for VMS avalable?- Message-ID: <ifkp9.44077$hb4.10148@sccrnsc02>   K I was wondering how you make a TK50 or other type of tape image (like for a 1 Dat 4mm).  Have people already made these images?   I I mean, to be honest I am lazy.  I want to hook up this old TK50 up to my J VAX 4000, for more old times sake, and thought it would be neat to installJ it.  I have done a few tests of doing DD dumps to and from the Tk50 off myL Linux box, so I was wondering if its possible to either pull the informationJ off the CD and make a boot/install tape(s), or if someone already had that idea and did it already.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:46:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 4 Subject: Re: Are there TK50 images for VMS avalable?, Message-ID: <3DA5E737.C7E668C5@videotron.ca>   WarlockD wrote:  > M > I was wondering how you make a TK50 or other type of tape image (like for a 3 > Dat 4mm).  Have people already made these images?   N Look at STABACKIP.COM in SYS$UPDATE. This needs to run first to have the firlsJ files on the TK50 the ones needed to boot standalone backup. Then you justL COPY the .B saveset to the TK50 (which will be after the standalone backup).  B You then can create a second TK50 with the .C .D .E .etc savesets.  L So you boot from first TK50 into standalone backup, then do the BACKUP/IMAGE mua0:vaxvms072.B/save dua0:   L Then you boot from dua0:, unload the TK50 and place the second TK50 and then the install continues.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:34:36 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>7 Subject: Re: C - overlaying variables in the same PSECT 8 Message-ID: <61pbqu4botj05a97qabp7hcc58u89fi4b9@4ax.com>  E On 8 Oct 2002 07:27:19 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  wrote:  c >In article <d56d1c2d.0210071331.403cdbe7@posting.google.com>, cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) writes: * >> Compaq C V6.5-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 >>  H >> Sent the below to support last Thursday. Haven't heard anything back. >> They must be rather busy... >>  E >> Sorry about any wrap on this. Supposing that I want to overlay two I >> variables on the same memory (do the same thing as set up multiple MAP G >> statements in BASIC where the MAP statements have the same "name")   >> how might I do this in C? >>   > $ >   What's wrong with using a union?  D Higher cost and you have to wait around just to get something simple% done... oh..... wait...... nevermind.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:50:08 GMT - From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) H Subject: Re: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution& Message-ID: <H3sCnK.1yG@world.std.com>  : In article <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEAEEOLFEAA.dallen@nist.gov>," Dan Allen <dallen@nist.gov> wrote: > F >       Just demonstrates the virtues of Open Source software.  PublicD >       scrutiny is so much better than that proprietary code review3 >       stuff as we recently learned in this forum.   J FWIW, if you read the advisory, someone had broken into their FTP site andF replaced the official distribution file with the compromised file.  ItE wasn't a failing of sendmail as Open Source software, rather it was a ' failing in their FTP server's security.    -brian.  --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----D           "A tree or shrub can grow and bloom. I am always the same.5                          But I am clever." -- Racter.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:21:50 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> H Subject: Re: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail DistributionI Message-ID: <24np9.223993$8b1.46764@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   : "Brian 'Jarai' Chase" <bdc@world.std.com> wrote in message  news:H3sCnK.1yG@world.std.com...< > In article <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEAEEOLFEAA.dallen@nist.gov>,$ > Dan Allen <dallen@nist.gov> wrote: > > H > >       Just demonstrates the virtues of Open Source software.  PublicF > >       scrutiny is so much better than that proprietary code review5 > >       stuff as we recently learned in this forum.  > L > FWIW, if you read the advisory, someone had broken into their FTP site andH > replaced the official distribution file with the compromised file.  ItG > wasn't a failing of sendmail as Open Source software, rather it was a ) > failing in their FTP server's security.     : Perhaps the FTP server software was 'open source' too. ;-)  J There are pro's and con's in the whole debate over open vs. closed source.J In the end it comes down to the quality of the people, the testing regime,J and the willingness not to release something that you believe isn't ready,+ as opposed to 'feature-rich and bug-laden'.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:14:51 GMT = From: peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) # Subject: ev6 still beats Itanium II 2 Message-ID: <3da5fb36.27996765@news.cable.ntl.com>   Ev6 ES45 1250mhz EV6M http://www.spec.org/osg/cpu2000/results/res2002q3/cpu2000-20020909-01610.html   , hp workstation zx6000 (1000 MHz, Itanium 2) M http://www.spec.org/osg/cpu2000/results/res2002q3/cpu2000-20020812-01541.html    well on peak anyway..      Peter Watkinson % peter.watkinson1<nospam>@ntlworld.com  remove <nospam> to reply :-) "It's is like a tube of orgasmic sensation. It lifted me through the clouds to a state of ecstasy in a matter of moments when ordinarily it would take much longer" 9 Netshopper@yahoo.com Email Spam 19:30pm 10th October 2002    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:33:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: File convert ? , Message-ID: <3DA5E435.A5308347@videotron.ca>  U > Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Lucas, Edward A (SAIC) (Edward.Lucas@bp.com) Wrote: ) > > The problem I am experiencing is fun.   M > > So The New York site has scanned the invoice (form) using "CorelDraw", he + > > has exported the file in a EPS format.    I How was the form originally produced ? Instead of scanning a printed one, K couldn't they supply you with the original document that was used to design ' the form (Freehand, Illustrator, etc) ?   K So essentially, you are getting some raster image embedded inside of an EPS  file.   F > > the form using outlook.  I then print the scanned image to a file,    DANGER WILL ROBINSON !, DANGER !  N You must extract the EPS to a file. Printing it means that the windows printerN drivers will muck around with the contents and add all sorts of bad postscript around the EPS.   K Once saved to a file, you can fairly determine if the other user generate a J binary or text EPS file (since it contains a scanned image, the image dataL will either appear as a whole bunch of hexadecimal characters or will appearM as binary goobledygook. This will determine how you need to transfer the file  to your VMS machine.  M If it was generated as binary postscript and your VMS printing infrastructure M doesn't support binary postscript (DCPS doesn't support it on serial ports by I default, but you can coax it to by overriding the serial port settings it J insists on). If you cannot print binary, there are ways using distiller toJ read in the binary data and write out hexadecimal data (read the "filters"# section of the Postscript red book)   P > > Once I am done I insert the file into my library, create a from with a setup1 > > of the library and attempt to print the form.   K Not enough unfortunatly. You'll need to add code above and below the EPS to K position it and restore the context after the EPS has executed so that when M your postscript commands to put the data over the form execute, they won't be 8 affected by whatever settings were made by the EPS file.  J And you'll have to find a way to make that EPS get sent for every page (orS send each page as a separate job). /SETUP only sends the setup module once per job.   N > > Now the New York site is scanning the image using the EPS format, They canF > > use .PCX, .TIF,.JPG,.BMP and I would think numerous other filters.  J EPS is not an image format. It is postscript code that can embed anything,M including the "image" command and a filter to read various file formats. (jpg D is part of Postscript level2, as is CCITT fax format, as well as rawI uncompressed images). As I recall, Tiff isn't a built-in file format that L Postscript can handle wioth PS level 2.  PCX and BMP is not a standard image@ format, it is some microsoft attempt at not following standards.    M I didn't see the original post. How big is the form ? Is it a full page image L with all sorts of neat squares into which you write data, or it is just some7 letterhead and you write ascii data in freeform below ?   L Images are very nasty for forms. To reproduce them on every page, you eitherK need to include a copy of the image with each page, or first read the image S data into an array, and then feed that array to the "image" operator for each page.   M Do you have control over the postscript generated for each page ? If so, then J it becomes fairly easy to write a setup module that setups a real form (inN postscript parlance) and then you just invoke the form at the top of each page
 you generate.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:38:25 GMT * From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>" Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents- Message-ID: <BOjp9.43869$hb4.10561@sccrnsc02>   2 Sounds good on paper, but who is going to host it?  I Er scrach that.  There are plently of linux mirrors for just that reason.    Humm. < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DA3986D.D2D21442@fsi.net...  > Stuart Johnson wrote:  > > B > > Does anyone have any information on what is going to be in the forthcoming K > > hobbyist kits from Montgar? I am hoping that it will contail the entire G > > layered products disks, ie. be the full OS distribution and layered # > > products. I can dream, can't I?  > I > Well, if you can dream up a way to cram a couple gigabytes of data onto C > a 650MB CD-ROM, yes, I guess you can dream. Otherwise, a multi-CD G > distribution would be called for and that would likely push the price H > into territory that would make it prohibitive to the very audience the( > hobbyist program is intended to reach. > J > If it were up to me, I'd cook up a boot CD that had bare-bone VMS plus aE > TCP/IP stack plus a PPP client plus (T)FTP and make it possible for H > hobbyists with sufficient internet bandwidth available to acquire PAKs3 > and install VMS and layered products via the web.  > # > ...if it were up to me. It ain't.  >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:41:25 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> ; Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents - some rambling thoughts ( Message-ID: <3DA63A55.4020804@rdrop.com>   Stuart Johnson wrote: M > I agree that downloading products is very convenient - I recently completed L > downloading RedHat 8 for myself (6 disks). Unfortunately, not everyone has# > broadband access to the Internet.   G Lucky you.  Sometimes I think RedHat is attached to the 'net by a 14.4  E modem.  I'm still trying to get RH 8.0 disk 2...  Er, what's disk 6?  D But being able to download ISO images of (at least some of) the the E current VMS distribution would be nice.  Wonder how the cost/benefit  D analysis would come out of making the images available online (more E $$$ for increased bandwidth) vs. pressing (how many?) kits for those  G on subscription.  And of the subscription customers, how many would be  G willing to switch?  I can postulate inserting new bits in the download  B stream to insert back doors into systesm... but I've been reading D William Gibson lately.  I don't think it's feasible or doable- this ) year- but I can see how it could be done.   B The other problem with this sort of thing is that if the software A package in itself gets popular, downloads can take upwards of 12  & hours- assuming there are no glitches.  $ > Physical media will continue to be" > needed by those folks for years.  E Simtel.net operates a "burn what you want" model:  You pick out some  A software, they burn it onto silver disc and mail it to you for a  . reasonable fee.  (Hello, RIAA?  Listening? ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 01:14:41 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>; Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents - some rambling thoughts , Message-ID: <3DA65E41.3060503@tsoft-inc.com>   Dean Woodward wrote:   > Stuart Johnson wrote:  > E >> I agree that downloading products is very convenient - I recently   >> completedJ >> downloading RedHat 8 for myself (6 disks). Unfortunately, not everyone  >> has$ >> broadband access to the Internet. >     P I woul;d suggest that most customers paying for a software maintenance contract @ would have some type of high speed (relatively) internet access.    I > Lucky you.  Sometimes I think RedHat is attached to the 'net by a 14.4  K > modem.  I'm still trying to get RH 8.0 disk 2...  Er, what's disk 6? But  J > being able to download ISO images of (at least some of) the the current H > VMS distribution would be nice.  Wonder how the cost/benefit analysis E > would come out of making the images available online (more $$$ for  B > increased bandwidth) vs. pressing (how many?) kits for those on F > subscription.  And of the subscription customers, how many would be I > willing to switch?  I can postulate inserting new bits in the download  D > stream to insert back doors into systesm... but I've been reading F > William Gibson lately.  I don't think it's feasible or doable- this + > year- but I can see how it could be done.     Q I'd also suggest that paying customers with a software support contract wouldn't  Q object to a one time purchase of a device that supports VPN, and that they could  N be assigned unique VPN login accounts by HP, and then they would download the 5 software products that they use/want via secured VPN.   O I don't know enough about the VPN capabilities to know if a public access VPN,  N ie; known login data, would compromise security of the link, but for hobbyist O users I don't think that the security issue is paramount.  Remember, it cannot  = be used for commercial purposes, so what's the real exposure?   N At our main site we have a Netopia router which supports VPN connections.  We K use this to set up connections to customer sites.  One person has a rather  M inexpensive model at home, and establishes a VPN line for working from home.  P Not saying that it's unbreakable, but it sure is better than a wide open Telnet  connection via the internet.    D > The other problem with this sort of thing is that if the software J > package in itself gets popular, downloads can take upwards of 12 hours- ! > assuming there are no glitches.  > % >> Physical media will continue to be # >> needed by those folks for years.  >  > G > Simtel.net operates a "burn what you want" model:  You pick out some  C > software, they burn it onto silver disc and mail it to you for a  0 > reasonable fee.  (Hello, RIAA?  Listening? ;-) >    Not a bad option.    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:07:40 -0400 & From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com> Subject: Re: legato for Openvms < Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010170023.06c2bd18@pop.rcn.com>  2 At 09:53 AM 10/10/2002 -0700, you wrote (in part):> >There is another company reselling Legato for OpenVMS agents. >I dont remember.   J Has anybody read the press release and announcement from Legato and HP on + Legato's web site? <http://www.legato.com/>   I Legato will be supporting a client for VAX and a client/server for Alpha   starting in November with V6.   6 Yes, before this you got the software from WumpusWare.   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:31:19 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>  Subject: Re: Mozilla and CSS, Message-ID: <3DA5E396.8000106@theblakes.com>   warren sander wrote:   >change ) ><link rel=Stylesheet href="../stil.css">  >to 9 ><link rel=Stylesheet href="../stil.css" type="text/css">  > H That may work around the problem (haven't tried it), but the root cause H of the problem is that the css file is being served up by the server as I text instead of css. You can either fix the server once or fix many html   files.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:41:06 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey, Message-ID: <3DA5E5E0.8BBF6E8E@videotron.ca>   warren sander wrote:B > pulling them and putting them into a db it has to know what each, > field name is, and what order it comes in.  N You shouldn't assume the order of the fields being sent in the response.  WhenM I built an all-in-1 interface to process form requests, I first set all field M names to blank, then processed whatever I had received in the transcation, so H missing fields would default to blank.  (there are some issues with thisG though when you have a form that doesn't contain all the fields in your L dataset, you don't want to set values for fields in the dataset that are not available on the form).    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:21:55 GMT 0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>, Subject: Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey2 Message-ID: <Tbmp9.41$tc4.849020@news.cpqcorp.net>  I I can since I wrote the program that process's the form stuff. We spent a + lot of time with 'broken browers' like SPRY ! that sent stuff in reverse order.     : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DA5E5E0.8BBF6E8E@videotron.ca... > warren sander wrote:D > > pulling them and putting them into a db it has to know what each. > > field name is, and what order it comes in. > J > You shouldn't assume the order of the fields being sent in the response. WhenI > I built an all-in-1 interface to process form requests, I first set all  field L > names to blank, then processed whatever I had received in the transcation, soJ > missing fields would default to blank.  (there are some issues with thisI > though when you have a form that doesn't contain all the fields in your J > dataset, you don't want to set values for fields in the dataset that are not  > available on the form).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:43:12 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and TCPware 5.6 question ; Message-ID: <ngop9.19881$ZO1.1095988@news20.bellglobal.com>   L I double checked with the documentation at work this morning; In my previous? post I quoted the tcpware config symbol "NTP_SERVERS" but meant K "NTP_ENABLE". BTW, you can still use the NTPdate command with "NTP_ENABLE =  0"  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message4 news:6S5p9.27954$da7.249549@news20.bellglobal.com..." > To all who expressed interest... > J > As far as I can tell, most TCPware stacks at my company are not properlyH > configured. This is the procedure that I believe will work for systems thatF > occasionally need to use the NTPdate command but not the NTP daemon. > J > First off, inspect the contents of file "TCPWARE:TIMEZONES.DAT" and look for L > the "zone line" that is appropriate for your system. I'm Ontario/Canada so I K > need to use zone "EST" and rule "CANADA". Now "$set default" to "tcpware" J > and enter "@cnfnet menu". Select "1" (configure tcpware) then select "1"I > again (core environment). When you get to the question about NTP answer L > "yes" even if you don't want the daemon. Next you'll be prompted for "timeI > zone name" and I entered "EST" even though I'm really in "EDT" (Eastern L > Daylight Time) at the moment. Next you'll be prompted for time zone rules.C > Leave this blank only if your system never shifts time; I entered 	 "CANADA", J > most Americans should enter "US", etc. Now continue with the rest of theC > questions until you can do two exit commands to save the changes.  > H > Now here is the important part if you wish to use NTPdate but not NTP; editI > "TCPWARE:TCPWARE_CONFIGURE.COM" and locate the symbol "NTP_SERVERS" and  makeK > sure it is set to "0". Now execute "@restart tcpware" if you're logged on K > from the system console, or "sys$update: autogen reboot" if you're logged  onH > via telnet. Verify your settings by executing the NTPdate (with the -vG > switch but you'd better check your manual because I'm doing this from J > memory) and make sure the system clock is only out by only a few minutes or > less but not 3600 seconds. > J > If you really mess up your system, you can always delete the most recentL > copy of "TCPWARE:TCPWARE_CONFIGURE.COM" then restart your stack to restore > the old settings.  >  > ///  > 6 > On every stack I looked at in my company, the symbol "NETCU_TIME_ZONE_RULES" K > was blank which always caused the system clock to fall back from "EDT" to J > "EST" when ever someone (with privs) was dorking around with the NTPdate > command during the summer. > L > I'm going to let the NTP daemon run on my development machine for the lastL > Saturday in October. If it looks like these TCPware settings work with theG > OpenVMS 7.3 sysgen parameter "AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV", then I'll enable this ) > feature on all my production platforms.  >  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/  >  > = > "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message / > news:7VQo9.53159$M52.584009@news.chello.at... K > > In article <hZNo9.23661$zU5.971102@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck"   > <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:% > > >>[ntp+timezone question snipped] C > > >No need to respond to this note. I've discovered the solution.  > >  > > And the answer is ?  > > H > > I've now a timezone and NTP config working, but I still wonder if it will> > > switch timezones at the right time correctly. We'll see... > >  > > -- > > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ) > > Network and OpenVMS system specialist   > > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atJ > > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:10:19 GMTe. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: Re: OVMS Concurrent user (update license)3 Message-ID: <vgkp9.69094$M52.877340@news.chello.at>e  N In article <3da58a35$1_2@news.tm.net.my>, "KCLim" <karchoon@tm.net.my> writes:; >Can someone please clarify for me what is update license..T  L A license which allows you to run the latest/greatest version of the productI the license is for. When you buy a (traditional) license, this license isuK restricted to the version of the product which is current at the buy of thetH license (and all earlier versions). To run newer versions of the productL you need to buy a "LIC[ense update] support contract" (where you pay monthlyF a fixed price) or you need to buy an update license (where you pay theL price of the license at the time where you want to switch to a newer versionK of this product). Selecting a contract or update licenses depends mainly on J the frequency of newer versions of the product and how fast/often you like to adopt/use them.    K >I wanna migrate from VAX to Alpha and it is my understanding that the OVMS 0 >user license can be upgraded to the Alpha OVMS.  D It depends. If you have a VMS-USER license, this license is platformH independant and is valid on VAX and Alpha (and likely IA64) platform. IfE you have a OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER the license is restricted to the Alpha.S) If you have a VAX-VMS it is for VAX only.   I And a platform switch is not a license update, it is a license migration.iC At least for VMS itself. There are some layered products whichhave G different UPI (unique product identifiers) for the different platforms,hE but (most) others have the same UPI for all platforms. In case of the.J same UPI you can use the license on both platforms without any "migration"E license to buy (but maybe an update license if you will want to run a J newer version and have no LIC support contract). In case of different UPIs you need a license migration.f  F There are three classes of licenses: Workgroup, Department, EnterpriseH There are different types of licenses: Concurrent Use (eg. QL-upixx-3B),C Personal Use (eg. QL-upixx-2B), traditional (unlimited or capacity, / concurrent user, Server, Workstation, SIP), ...y    H >                                                Is this update license?   No. See above.  K >                                                                        If:= >not, what is. I can't seem to find anything on the OVMS SPD.o  H A good explaination used to be at (it is no longer there but maybe could be find in some good cache)d  A 	http://www.digital.com/software-licensing/policies/swl_xfer.htmld  H before the COMPAQtion took place. I don't know if/what HPQ did better...  I Start with http://www.openvms.compaq.com/advantage/upgrading-to-alpha.htm M and see if other links on the openvms homepage helps. The SPD alone will not.   G So, start to find out which licenses (with classes and types) you have,pF then think which licenses you want to have on your alpha and then findD out if the can be used or need to be migrated (or can't be migrated)? and if you need help ask again here with more specific info....  -- r Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:48:00 GMTl$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU/ Subject: Re: OVMS Samba and Win2000 Native modea8 Message-ID: <00A153EC.1C9A5616@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  p In article <20021010165125.1358.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:  * >How many companies are using Pathworks ? / >We are not using for a long time - since V4.1.t/ >May be is time to HP/Compaq open this softwaren, >to the Linux community. Another option than. >Samba ! Or may be...giving Pathworks fonts to. >the Samba community for improvment. We should- >have a Sambaworks ! :-) No Brazil related !    G My understanding is that Advanced Server, while containing substantial aL HP/Compaq input, is a port of a Unix product licensed from AT&T which itselfL is ported from source code licensed from Microsoft.  Legal encumbrances make@ it pretty unlikely that any of that is going to be open sourced.   -- Alanp   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:46:11 -0600 (MDT)e" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>9 Subject: Re: Problem copying large files from VMS to UnixtG Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0210101932060.28088-100000@athena.csdco.com>b  + On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote:    > Steve Spires wrote:aJ > > The files are DSM volumes, and vary in size, the largest two being 4GbG > > and 6Gb. These files won't copy by any means I've tried - FTP, RCP,e= > > VMSTAR to tape, even using NFS and trying to import them.a > > F > > Versions - OpenVMS 7.2-1, TCPIP Services 5.1 and Digital Unix 4.0F > = > I have no good news, but thanks for saving me the effort ofi? > worrying about an upgrade: I have the same issue with an 8+GBp@ > file on OpenVMS Alpha V6.2 (and UCX V4.2). I've tried ftp from= > a Win2K box and a Solaris box and I've tried pushing to theo? > Solaris box too. Sadly the local DU box does not seem to havea? > DECnet installed, and I'm not sure where the installation CDs  > live, otherwise I'd try that.  > @ > I know that files up at least 2GB can be transferred. In fact,> > I'm 90% sure that at least one file of 4GB or so did make it: > as far as the Win2K box (that's when I found that WinZip? > has an limit on the size of the input file it will compress -o > 2GB or so, IIRC).p > B > Have a go at using DECnet - then I'll know whether it's worth me/ > digging out the CDs and upgrading our DU box!i > ; > Failing that, I'm going to have to split the file up intoe8 > 1GB chunks. Or maybe write something that will concoct8 > a fake file header that points at a specific 1GB chunk: > of the real data I want (not a nice thing to do but it's5 > a scratch volume set and I don't have another spareI > 8GB to play with ...)s > 	 > Antonio  >  >   
 Greetings,  F It appears to work with wu-ftp on DU 4.0g, TCP/IP 5.1 on VMS 7.2-2.  I just tested this VMS to DU.a   FTP> put TCEVT01P.IDX  200 PORT command successful.9 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for tcevt01p.idx.  226 Transfer complete.@ local: ICON:[COURT.DATABASE]TCEVT01P.IDX;5  remote: tcevt01p.idx? 6367554459 bytes sent in 00:25:42.01 seconds (4032.60 Kbytes/s)3   Hermes # ls -l t*AE -rw-r--r--   1 oracle   oinstall 6367554459 Oct 10 19:43 tcevt01p.idxl  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2002 02:44:54 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)9 Subject: Re: Problem copying large files from VMS to Unixc5 Message-ID: <ao5dv5$jjsde$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>d  E In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB04F@tahiti.tinuk.com>,o0 	"Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes: > H > Odd problem - or not depending on your point of view - but I am havingI > difficulty copying files from a VMS box to a unix box running Dec Unix.hI > It seems to be related to the size of the file, but I'm unsure if there D > is some kind of hard-coded limit - I haven't found one yet looking > through the manuals. > H > The files are DSM volumes, and vary in size, the largest two being 4GbE > and 6Gb. These files won't copy by any means I've tried - FTP, RCP,e; > VMSTAR to tape, even using NFS and trying to import them.  > A > Can someone either let me know if there IS a file size limit onoI > transfers of this type, if not what am I doing wrong, and if anyone hasC. > an idea of how I can get these files across?  C No specific experience with Digital Unix, but it sounds like ULIMITiB to me.  If the files all stop at the same point, it is most likely8 the problem.  root can raise this limit, a user can not.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:56:21 GMTt) From: Andrew Balaam <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk> ' Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAXe4 Message-ID: <20021010.20562100.903141668@imagnu.geo>   Re index  ; fwiw, Chambers twentieth century dictionary (1977) states:-g  1 pl. of a book usu. Indexes; other senses indices.o  I Whilst these little asides may be a little off topic, I find them quite =   	 charming!c  6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  I On 10/10/02, 17:58:14, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>=20 / wrote regarding RE: singular and plural of VAX:=    I > actually, according to disctionary.com, indexes and indices are both=20  validV, > plurals for index, and are the same thing.     > -----Original Message-----* > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]! > Sent: October 10, 2002 12:41 PM_/ > To: Bochnik, William J; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como) > Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAXa    < > indexes and indices are not the same.  Microsoft is right!   > >-----Original Message----- = > >From: Bochnik, William J [mailto:William_Bochnik@acml.com]r+ > >Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 9:09 AMJ > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* > >Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAX > >  > > I > >I vote "VAXEN" like the plural of box - boxen (thanks Jim Breuer) btw=   F > >personal peeve - rebooted a Microsh*t box today - checkdisk insists" > >plural of index is indexes - ha > >= > >= > >=I > >The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged=-  G > >and confidential information and is intended only for the use of the_G > >person(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or antC > >employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to thecA > >intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or9G > >duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you areTG > >not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by2F > >reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. Please@ > >note that for certain accounts we do not accept orders and/or@ > >instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not beG > >responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindly I > >refrain from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have=T   > >confirmed that,I > >we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that=   todI > >satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming=20i e-mail= > >correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.1 > >4 > >0 > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. = > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).DC > >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002o > >n > ---o( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002    I > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged =. and E > confidential information and is intended only for the use of the=20d	 person(s)pI > named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or=  =20u agentrI > responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any=0  I > review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communicati=e on=205 isG > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please=20  contactcF > the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI > original message. Please note that for certain accounts we do not acce=5 ptI > orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will n=s ot=20r beI > responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindly=20o refrain,I > from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have confirme=h d=20 thatI > we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that =  toH > satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming=20 e-mail< > correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:21:39 -0700s# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>>' Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAX 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEDCFOAA.tom@kednos.com>e  8 Well for those of us who are old enough to have grown up> with a more disciplined form of the English language there is, or I guess was, a difference.M  # Quoting from my collegiate Webstersa  = indices in the sense of mathematical or other abstract signs,n+ indexes in the sense of tables of contents.o  F Te OED, confirms this definition, but with considerably more detail:-)   >-----Original Message-----r1 >From: Andrew Balaam [mailto:abalaam@yahoo.co.uk]O) >Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 1:56 PMi >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAX >w >e	 >Re indexn >i< >fwiw, Chambers twentieth century dictionary (1977) states:- >k2 >pl. of a book usu. Indexes; other senses indices. >iH >Whilst these little asides may be a little off topic, I find them quite
 >charming! >o7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<e >iG >On 10/10/02, 17:58:14, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>d0 >wrote regarding RE: singular and plural of VAX: >g > G >> actually, according to disctionary.com, indexes and indices are bothr >valid- >> plurals for index, and are the same thing.e >h >1 >> -----Original Message----- + >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]C" >> Sent: October 10, 2002 12:41 PM0 >> To: Bochnik, William J; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >> Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAX >  > = >> indexes and indices are not the same.  Microsoft is right!s >s >> >-----Original Message-----> >> >From: Bochnik, William J [mailto:William_Bochnik@acml.com], >> >Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 9:09 AM >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comf+ >> >Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAXu >> > >> >I >> >I vote "VAXEN" like the plural of box - boxen (thanks Jim Breuer) btwyG >> >personal peeve - rebooted a Microsh*t box today - checkdisk insistsa# >> >plural of index is indexes - hae >> > >> > >> >I >> >The information contained in this transmission may contain privilegedeH >> >and confidential information and is intended only for the use of theH >> >person(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or anD >> >employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to theB >> >intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution orH >> >duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you areH >> >not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately byG >> >reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. Please A >> >note that for certain accounts we do not accept orders and/orjA >> >instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not bewH >> >responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. KindlyI >> >refrain from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have0 >> >confirmed thatL >> >we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that toG >> >satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming> >e-mail.> >> >correspondence of staff members serving certain functions. >> > >> > >> >---f* >> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).D >> >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002 >> > >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.1= >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C >> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002n >> > L >> The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andC >> confidential information and is intended only for the use of thew
 >person(s)I >> named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee orf >agentI >> responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anygK >> review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communications >is E >> strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please  >contactG >> the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of themK >> original message. Please note that for certain accounts we do not acceptIK >> orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will nott >bewG >> responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindlyr >refrainJ >> from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have confirmed >thathK >> we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that todF >> satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming >e-mailt= >> correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.h; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002o >' ---p& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:23:26 GMTd0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAXe2 Message-ID: <idmp9.42$tc4.849020@news.cpqcorp.net>  $ Actually there is no plural of VAX..  $ VAX is not a noun it's an Adjective.  B You have VAX systems or a VAX system. You don't have VAXs or VAXen    6 "Andrew Balaam" <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message. news:20021010.20562100.903141668@imagnu.geo... Re index  ; fwiw, Chambers twentieth century dictionary (1977) states:-E  1 pl. of a book usu. Indexes; other senses indices.t  G Whilst these little asides may be a little off topic, I find them quite 	 charming!t  6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  F On 10/10/02, 17:58:14, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>/ wrote regarding RE: singular and plural of VAX:r    F > actually, according to disctionary.com, indexes and indices are both validn, > plurals for index, and are the same thing.     > -----Original Message-----* > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]! > Sent: October 10, 2002 12:41 PMd/ > To: Bochnik, William J; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAXS    < > indexes and indices are not the same.  Microsoft is right!   > >-----Original Message-----n= > >From: Bochnik, William J [mailto:William_Bochnik@acml.com]e+ > >Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 9:09 AMr > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* > >Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAX > >d > >wH > >I vote "VAXEN" like the plural of box - boxen (thanks Jim Breuer) btwF > >personal peeve - rebooted a Microsh*t box today - checkdisk insists" > >plural of index is indexes - ha > >  > >  > >aH > >The information contained in this transmission may contain privilegedG > >and confidential information and is intended only for the use of the G > >person(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or ansC > >employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to theoA > >intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or-G > >duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you arecG > >not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by9F > >reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. Please@ > >note that for certain accounts we do not accept orders and/or@ > >instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not beG > >responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. KindlytH > >refrain from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have > >confirmed thatoK > >we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that totF > >satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming e-mail= > >correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.c > >e > >  > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. = > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C > >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002r > >  > ---t( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002    K > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and B > confidential information and is intended only for the use of the	 person(s) H > named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agenteH > responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyJ > review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication isD > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact2F > the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theJ > original message. Please note that for certain accounts we do not acceptJ > orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not beF > responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindly refrainsI > from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have confirmed  thatJ > we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that toE > satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incomingn e-mail< > correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2002 16:04:39 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAXt= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210101504.38c8c77f@posting.google.com>   d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMECMFOAA.tom@kednos.com>... > Use a real dictionary!= [endless stuff about indexes/ces and disclaimers and what notn mercifully omitted]t  C Merriam Webster (their online address is www.webster.com) says both ? are acceptable. "Indices" is the usual plural for subscripts innB mathematics and physics. Also, the weather people -- at least fromF what I've seen -- usually say "heat indices". For stock indexes/ces, ID don't know which is used more often. So, with the possible exception@ of math and physics, and perhaps other branches of science, it's  pretty much personal preference.  F Hey, another plural of VAX is "VAX systems". That's what the docs say,? I believe. And no one can say it's wrong! Well, one can say it,1 but....2   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman<   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2002 02:33:04 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAX:5 Message-ID: <ao5d8t$jjsde$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>o  ; In article <01KNI5LBE9E49QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, < 	Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:+ >>   So is it die VMS, der VMS, or das VMS?t > E > Das VMS, weil das System.  "Die VMS" is the battle cry of the unix t > geeks!  " Well, that's a silly thing to say.  B Most of them don't even know VMS exists and those that do couldn't
 care less.   bill   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   f   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:13:43 -0400$ From: "LMcC" <sorry@nospam>tL Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266.../ Message-ID: <uqbgqokh6lq2f6@corp.supernews.com>n  8 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message/ news:ao4epc$je1kb$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...m
 > LMcC wrote:e > >...C > > I never get it.  The system stops at the accounting informationtF > > screen with a blinking cursor down in the lower left corner of the/ > > screen (next to a "Charged CPU Time" thing)n > >... >nI > Press <ENTER> at this point. If that does nothing then try <CTRL>-C, if  thatH > does nothing then try <CTRL>-Y, if that does nothing then let us know.   Nothing, nothing and nothing.h   :o)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:21:06 -0600s From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> L Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266...# Message-ID: <dljp9.225$46.111@fe01>r   LMcC wrote:r [snip]  M > Every time, no matter how I install, no matter how I boot, that's where theuN > system stops.  All I can do is ctrl/P to halt the system and get back to the > K >>>>prompt.  I CAN, however, get a DCL prompt by booting with OPA0: settingr >>>nH > and bypassing the login stuff.  I can "Set Noon" to fiddle around withM > different DCL commands - however they rarely run as I usually get some kindlN > of File not found error or "images must be installed" error along with a few$ > others that I can't even remember. > J > I did make sure my PALcode was above the required minimum but other than > that, I have been stumpified.y > ! > Any help for a clueless newbie?e  ; Press return a couple of times after it gets to this point.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:13:26 -0400o- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>eL Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266...5 Message-ID: <ao4jgq$ills7$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>    LMcC wrote:0: > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message1 > news:ao4epc$je1kb$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...0 >> LMcC wrote: >>> ...oC >>> I never get it.  The system stops at the accounting informationnF >>> screen with a blinking cursor down in the lower left corner of the/ >>> screen (next to a "Charged CPU Time" thing)m >>> ...L >>G >> Press <ENTER> at this point. If that does nothing then try <CTRL>-C, D >> if that does nothing then try <CTRL>-Y, if that does nothing then >> let us know.t >6 > Nothing, nothing and nothing.e  . OK, now it is interesting. Some things to try;  G 1. A newer version of VMS, 7.0 is rather old, 7.3-1 just came out. MostoK people avoid the .0 releases, I never installed 7.0 on any machine. Even if3J one of the other ideas below work then I would still go to V7.3-1. (If youG go this route first then do not bother typing in all of the licenses, IsL think all you will need is your Base license until you get past this point.)  I For the rest of these there is no need to re-install VMS to test them, ate7 the >>> type B DKA0 (or whatever your system drive is).e  K 2. What type of drives do you have and how many (if you need help here then-I from the >>> prompt type SHOW DEVICE and post the output here), it may beoK possible that you have a SCSI problem that is causing VMS some problem. Try3J pulling some drives out of the cabinet and just leave the System Drive. OnJ the AS 1000, if you have only one SCSI bus, the drive bays fully populatedK and a tape attached to the external port then your SCSI bus is too long andn strange things will happen.   F 3. IIRC the AS 1000 needs a special SCSI terminator on the back of theL machine. Do you have one? Someone who knows hardware better than me might beL able to jump in here, but I think there was a particular terminator just for% the 1000 that had some pins jumpered.n  F 4. Before booting do a SHOW CONSOLE, if it says GRAPHICS then do a SETJ CONSOLE SERIAL then type INIT. (I'm just grasping at straws on this one, I5 don't think this will work, but it may on a AS 1000.)   H 5. Call HP and/or the person who sold you the machine (assuming that you just bought it used.)e     -- Peter WeaverD Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,A nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that its sub-contracts to.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:34:26 GMTa2 From: "Phillip Sobottke" <psobottke@ameritech.net>L Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266...? Message-ID: <6Dkp9.3169$F53.2959395@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>s  " Try this... At the >>> prompt type >>>boot -flags 0,0  = I just installed 7.21 recently, and this is what I had to do.     & "LMcC" <sorry@nospam> wrote in message( news:uqbduli6jjka5@corp.supernews.com...K > ...and failing miserably.  I feel I must be doing something fundamentallytG > wrong (Which shouldn't be too surprising as I never even saw a VMS orr Alphad > machine before yesterday.).n >uL > I know so little about this that I'm not even sure what info you guys needD > in order to help...so I'll try not to be stupid. (I'll have to try *really*
 > hard...)> > (BTW, I've been scouring the Digital OpenVMS manuals and the Compaq/digitalL > websites but it seems all their info is geared towards someone who has VMS2 > up and running.  I can't even get _that_ far...)@ > I have successfully booted from the Open VMS for Alpha CD-ROM.G > I think I should be doing an install for a standalone as there are noc otherlK > VMS machines near me (Although there is a network card in the machine ande IoF > do have the line plugged in and there are some other machines on the network"# > but it's mostly a Win2k network).aL > The install procedure dutifully asks for my license paks which I dutifullyK > type in one after another after another after another (there's a BUNCH of 1 > them things!) until I have them all registered.rK > Me and Alpha happily go through setting the time zone and all that stuff.NF > Alpha copies files forever (10%....20%....etc...100%) until its doneK > We reboot and Autogen does it's thing (I guess - it scrolls by so quicklyiA > that I can't tell if it's doing its' thing correctly or not...) E > (I forget the order but I usually choose not to install any layeredn; > products - though the time I did, I got the same results)eK > After Autogen finishes and reboots I get the impression that I should seea ae. > welcome to VMS banner and a username prompt.H > I never get it.  The system stops at the accounting information screen withJ > a blinking cursor down in the lower left corner of the screen (next to a > "Charged CPU Time" thing). > I > Every time, no matter how I install, no matter how I boot, that's where" the J > system stops.  All I can do is ctrl/P to halt the system and get back to theiE > >>> prompt.  I CAN, however, get a DCL prompt by booting with OPA0:  settinghH > and bypassing the login stuff.  I can "Set Noon" to fiddle around withH > different DCL commands - however they rarely run as I usually get some kindJ > of File not found error or "images must be installed" error along with a fews$ > others that I can't even remember. >bJ > I did make sure my PALcode was above the required minimum but other than > that, I have been stumpified.h >t! > Any help for a clueless newbie?a >  > TIA, > :o)f > Lee  >o >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:37:27 -0400s From: "LMcC" <sorry@nospam> L Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266.../ Message-ID: <uqbp8873qq3pb2@corp.supernews.com>t  L Beautiful - I'll print this out and try these suggestions and post back with) properly non-top-posted results.  Thanks!U   :o)O9 <no need to scroll further down - new stuff is all above>k  8 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message/ news:ao4jgq$ills7$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...o
 > LMcC wrote:e< > > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message3 > > news:ao4epc$je1kb$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...I > >> LMcC wrote:	 > >>> ... E > >>> I never get it.  The system stops at the accounting information"H > >>> screen with a blinking cursor down in the lower left corner of the1 > >>> screen (next to a "Charged CPU Time" thing) 	 > >>> ...C > >>I > >> Press <ENTER> at this point. If that does nothing then try <CTRL>-C,rF > >> if that does nothing then try <CTRL>-Y, if that does nothing then > >> let us know.n > >c! > > Nothing, nothing and nothing.e >l0 > OK, now it is interesting. Some things to try; >iI > 1. A newer version of VMS, 7.0 is rather old, 7.3-1 just came out. MostiJ > people avoid the .0 releases, I never installed 7.0 on any machine. Even ifL > one of the other ideas below work then I would still go to V7.3-1. (If youI > go this route first then do not bother typing in all of the licenses, I-F > think all you will need is your Base license until you get past this point.)  >aK > For the rest of these there is no need to re-install VMS to test them, ate9 > the >>> type B DKA0 (or whatever your system drive is).- >-H > 2. What type of drives do you have and how many (if you need help here thenK > from the >>> prompt type SHOW DEVICE and post the output here), it may bekI > possible that you have a SCSI problem that is causing VMS some problem.t Try L > pulling some drives out of the cabinet and just leave the System Drive. OnL > the AS 1000, if you have only one SCSI bus, the drive bays fully populatedI > and a tape attached to the external port then your SCSI bus is too longc and  > strange things will happen.  > H > 3. IIRC the AS 1000 needs a special SCSI terminator on the back of theK > machine. Do you have one? Someone who knows hardware better than me might  beJ > able to jump in here, but I think there was a particular terminator just ford' > the 1000 that had some pins jumpered.t > H > 4. Before booting do a SHOW CONSOLE, if it says GRAPHICS then do a SETL > CONSOLE SERIAL then type INIT. (I'm just grasping at straws on this one, I7 > don't think this will work, but it may on a AS 1000.)w >sJ > 5. Call HP and/or the person who sold you the machine (assuming that you > just bought it used.)n >h >t > -- > Peter WeaverF > Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,C > nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it  > sub-contracts to.  >4 >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:18:02 GMTe2 From: "Phillip Sobottke" <psobottke@ameritech.net>L Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266...? Message-ID: <e8mp9.3182$F53.2970027@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>h  > Try >>>boot -flags 0,0  (before you go to all that other work)& "LMcC" <sorry@nospam> wrote in message) news:uqbp8873qq3pb2@corp.supernews.com....I > Beautiful - I'll print this out and try these suggestions and post back" with+ > properly non-top-posted results.  Thanks!u >l > :o)t; > <no need to scroll further down - new stuff is all above>  >e: > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message1 > news:ao4jgq$ills7$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...t > > LMcC wrote:r> > > > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message5 > > > news:ao4epc$je1kb$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...m > > >> LMcC wrote: > > >>> ...eG > > >>> I never get it.  The system stops at the accounting information J > > >>> screen with a blinking cursor down in the lower left corner of the3 > > >>> screen (next to a "Charged CPU Time" thing)  > > >>> ...  > > >>K > > >> Press <ENTER> at this point. If that does nothing then try <CTRL>-C,tH > > >> if that does nothing then try <CTRL>-Y, if that does nothing then > > >> let us know.i > > >/# > > > Nothing, nothing and nothing.h > > 2 > > OK, now it is interesting. Some things to try; > >HK > > 1. A newer version of VMS, 7.0 is rather old, 7.3-1 just came out. MostiL > > people avoid the .0 releases, I never installed 7.0 on any machine. Even > ifJ > > one of the other ideas below work then I would still go to V7.3-1. (If you K > > go this route first then do not bother typing in all of the licenses, IdH > > think all you will need is your Base license until you get past this	 > point.)e > >pJ > > For the rest of these there is no need to re-install VMS to test them, at; > > the >>> type B DKA0 (or whatever your system drive is).e > >tJ > > 2. What type of drives do you have and how many (if you need help here > thenJ > > from the >>> prompt type SHOW DEVICE and post the output here), it may beK > > possible that you have a SCSI problem that is causing VMS some problem.g > Try0K > > pulling some drives out of the cabinet and just leave the System Drive.. OnD > > the AS 1000, if you have only one SCSI bus, the drive bays fully	 populatedHK > > and a tape attached to the external port then your SCSI bus is too long  > and4 > > strange things will happen.q > > J > > 3. IIRC the AS 1000 needs a special SCSI terminator on the back of theG > > machine. Do you have one? Someone who knows hardware better than me  might  > beL > > able to jump in here, but I think there was a particular terminator just > for ) > > the 1000 that had some pins jumpered.n > >iJ > > 4. Before booting do a SHOW CONSOLE, if it says GRAPHICS then do a SETL > > CONSOLE SERIAL then type INIT. (I'm just grasping at straws on this one, It9 > > don't think this will work, but it may on a AS 1000.)  > >-L > > 5. Call HP and/or the person who sold you the machine (assuming that you > > just bought it used.)o > >u > >: > > -- > > Peter WeaverH > > Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,E > > nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it  > > sub-contracts to.e > >  > >  >e >r   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:54:18 +0000 (UTC)l* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)< Subject: Re: Why slow system when using logical search list?0 Message-ID: <ao4pdq$n9f$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  \ In article <3DA4DF2F.7F4B9DD7@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Lawrence Bleau wrote:O >> In the no search list case, the client system sent *one* GET request and the(> >> server (remote) system returned 10 records as DAT messages. > P >> In the search list case, the client system sent one GET request at a time andQ >> the server system returned one DAT message for each, with a lot of handshaking  >> messages in between.h > L >Just a shot in the dark. is itr possible that the search list consumes moreL >buffquo or other resource and that results in the program telling decnet toH >send only small packets, whereas when you have no search list, there is7 >sufficient quota available for larger decnet buffers ?   N This is a tantilizing suggestion.  How would one confirm or refute this idea? O What resource, specifically, and where to find it?  (Probably anal/sys, but I'mt a novice at using it.)  O >Does it make a difference if the remote file is located as the first item of an >searchlist or at the bottom ?  J No difference.  At least, not in earlier tests, where i changed around theM elements of the search list and got almost identical results as far as timing G goes.  I can't say if any underlying details changed, but for practical  purposes, no change.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edun   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:07:01 GMTT0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPedt2 Message-ID: <F5lp9.37$M74.756849@news.cpqcorp.net>   ok,aL     I've putzed around with the webtrendslive javascript as much as I can. I9 can't make it stop doing the error on 3.03 and still give. info on non-3.03 browers..  F     So I looked at trying to stop it from running on 3.03 but for some> reason I can't get an if-then-else statement in the javascriptL to stop parsing the javascript. 3.03 still gives the error.. If someone else$ can give me some code I'll take it..  H     the 3rd thing I tried is to set up in the sever side include to load/ different code if it's 3.03 or not. THAT WORKEDn       BUTh  L         I can't get includes to work inside includes. Every page has a bunch7 of includes. one of them has the javascript code in it.t  I         I can get it to select that one or another one but then I have ton: recode ALL the pages on the site which will take some time  I         I can't seem to make csws do includes inside includes. IF I couldS; then I could put the if include stuff down a level and then 4     select the correct include for 3.03 or not 3.03.  L So, is it enough of a problem that you all want me to spend a couple of days6 fixing every page or would you rather I get more pagesK updated to the now hp brand? (mostly the couple of days would be re-writingt* scripts to shove this code onto every page)             <!-- Begin Footer Include --> .                     <!--#if expr="${nojs}" -->7             <!--#include virtual="footer_gold.inc"  -->.!                     <!--#else -->i9             <!--#include virtual="footer_nogold.inc"  -->t"                     <!--#endif -->'             <!-- End Footer Include -->-  
 to replace  -         <!--#include virtual="footer.inc" -->   8 Or someone can tell my why nested includes don't work...   -warreno      ; "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messagei, news:8a6k9.5621$142.173377@news.chello.at...H > In article <qo8bdve592Uk@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:8 > >In article <79Kj9.256504$1S3.6327923@news.chello.at>,0 peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:D > >> In article <ojuPPW7MCXssgH=1KVi=seueVza6@4ax.com>, David Beatty* <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes:> > >>>http://www.openvms.compaq.com now has the HP color scheme# > >>>and format.  Happy hunting ...  > >> > >> Happy ??? > >>H > >> With NETSCAPE V3 I now also have this awful slooooooooow background picture G > >> painting (and repainting and repainting) which led me stop diggingP
 www.hp.com > >> some years ago... > >>D > >> And it even ends in a "Request Timeout" loading some akamai.net address. > >>9 > >> Count me as a non-supporter of the new web design !!a > >-6 > >No problem here, with Javascript and Java disabled. >lK > No JAVA on VAX. And disabling Javascript only cures the D8 error message,cD > but not the repainting and awful slow painting problems. So, still unusable...e >e > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERB' > Network and OpenVMS system specialistt > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atK > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMSf Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:50:39 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed + Message-ID: <3DA5E81D.54B4AD6@videotron.ca>r   warren sander wrote: >  > ok,hN >     I've putzed around with the webtrendslive javascript as much as I can. I; > can't make it stop doing the error on 3.03 and still givei > info on non-3.03 browers..  L It doesn't matter to me because I always access the Compaq/HP web pages withL javascript totally disabled, unless I really need to. And whenever I stumbleK on a site that has bad javascript, I just  "view source" and scroll down torL the bottom to see the actual contents and skip over all the wasted bandwidth of the javascript.  I I have, however one request: the .README files at ftp.service.digital.comaM should be TEXT not some bloody long HTML/javascript that is 10 times the sizeP  of the ascii text at the bottom.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:16:52 GMT-$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed 8 Message-ID: <00A153F0.24C1D081@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  e In article <F5lp9.37$M74.756849@news.cpqcorp.net>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> writes:e >0. >        <!--#include virtual="footer.inc" --> >d9 >Or someone can tell my why nested includes don't work...w    $ I think you need to add .inc to your    AddHandler server-parsed .shtml   I line and make sure you include the file (actually, with a virtual, you'reeN including whatever's pointed to by the URI) from a directory where Includes is
 turned on.  L If you want to experiment with this without messing with your configuration,J copy footer.inc to footer.shtml and include footer.shtml instead; see what happens.  M If that doesn't work, could you post your broken "footer.inc" (or email it toe me)?  N Another option: #include virtual can run a CGI program and include the output,L so you could put together an arbitrarily complicated program.  (Not that youO really want to do that for every page view ever, but if you got it working oncet" you'd be in business immediately.)   -- Alano   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.561 ************************