1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 12 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 563       Contents:0 Re: A warning to use bounds checking in BASIC(?)? Re: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution ? Re: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution ? RE: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution  Re: File convert ?% Re: Grant an identifier to an image ? % Re: Grant an identifier to an image ? % Re: Grant an identifier to an image ? % Re: Grant an identifier to an image ?  Re: Hobbyist kit Contents 2 Re: Hobbyist kit Contents - some rambling thoughts How hard is this for HP to do?" Re: How hard is this for HP to do?C Identifying a Template Unit (was Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?) G Re: Identifying a Template Unit (was Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?) G Re: Identifying a Template Unit (was Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?) 8 Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possible8 Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possible8 Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possible8 Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possible8 Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possible' Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read @ Re: OpenVMS immunity to virus and security breeches from hackers@ Re: OpenVMS immunity to virus and security breeches from hackers PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS ! RE: SEAGATE ST336706LC Disk Drive  RE: singular and plural of VAX Re: singular and plural of VAX Re: Technical Question Re: Technical Question Re: Technical Question Re: Technical QuestionC Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266...  Weekly reboots... " Re:  Why is LTA0: offline mounted?( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed# Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:27:58 -0700 2 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com>9 Subject: Re: A warning to use bounds checking in BASIC(?) 2 Message-ID: <ao7qc5$8so$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>  / Ed Vogel <ed.vogel@compaq.com> wrote in message & news:3da6e51f_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... > ? > "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com> wrote in message / > news:ao59rm$lnc$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...  > || <Preach mode on> > > | Getting back to bounding checking...  Properly written and: > | tested code shouldn't need bounds checking.  Having it? > | allows us BASIC programmers to get lazy a bit.  Having said ; > | this, I wish C had bounds checking and I wish Microsoft > > | would use it.  How many times have you heard of C programs> > | that have memory leaks or buffer overflows.  At least if C9 > | had such a feature, the software that is commercially $ > | produced would be more reliable. > | <Preach mode off>  > |  >     Hi Randy,  > 9 >     We added bounds checking to Compaq C some time ago. ) >     (/CHECK=BOUNDS....just like BASIC).  > D >     Of course the C array rules are a little tricker than BASIC's,= >     but I think we catch most of the cases we can (and even 1 >     warn you about some of the cases we can't).  >  >     Ed Vogel >     Compaq C Engineering.  >    Hi Ed:  9 Ooops.  I haven't used C in several years.  I guess I'm a 7 little behind the times.  My apologies and my thanks to 0 the C Engineering Staff for adding this feature.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 20:28:27 +0200 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>H Subject: Re: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution) Message-ID: <3DA7184B.9080002@vajhoej.dk>    Z wrote:  $ > John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:M > : VMS is closed in the sense that we, the great unwashed, don't wade in and O > : change the core VMS routines, as opposed to anyone being able/encouraged to N > : hack (in a non-threatinging way) at the source in 'open source'. There are > : pro's and con's to this: > F > You seem to be implying that open source carries with it the ability8 > for anyone to change a particular public distribution. >  > That's not true.    ' Maybe not according to your definition.     ' But according to the common definition.    For an exact definition see:0    http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:47:21 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> H Subject: Re: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail DistributionF Message-ID: <ZvBp9.12127$vX.8048@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  - "Z" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message ) news:uqdpf1jgm3isdc@corp.supernews.com... $ > John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:I > : VMS is closed in the sense that we, the great unwashed, don't wade in  and L > : change the core VMS routines, as opposed to anyone being able/encouraged toJ > : hack (in a non-threatinging way) at the source in 'open source'. There are  > : pro's and con's to this: > F > You seem to be implying that open source carries with it the ability8 > for anyone to change a particular public distribution. >  > That's not true.    I If you get source, you can modify it for your own use. Some may choose to D contribute their modifications back into the gene pool, so to speak.  H My point was meant to illustrate that in the VMS community, while we mayD chafe at the delays that sometimes exist in getting bug fixes or newH functionality in VMS, most of us are happy to let VMS engineering do theI work, even if we had VMS source. Part of this is the fact that VMS is (c) K HP, and part of this is due to the fact that VMS has been in the commercial K processing arena longer (I may get some arguments on this, but on average I J believe this to be a reasonable statement), and in commercial environmentsE it is your own business processing that takes precedence in building,  debugging, and tweaking.  I Unix started on a different foot, but even today in businesses all around J the world it is my experience that fewer than 1% of the programmers I haveK met will get involved in even downloading a public distribution in order to I compile it. It may be different in academia, or in certain organizations, I but by and large corporations still pay Sun, IBM, HP, SGI, to bug fix and L package distributions on CD. These corporate employees have their hands full2 building, debugging, and deploying their own code.  H The unix community has developed a more free-wheeling approach to makingG changes, and maybe if VMS hadn't been so popular in the early 80's when L corporate support from Digital was obligatory, perhaps the VMS community mayL have demanded a more open approach from DEC. I'm not attempting to disparageL open source or the people who participate in building open source software -I there have been some very fine applications and tools built this way, but I there are two distinctly different business models here, and for some one K works better than the other, whether at a philosophical or practical level.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:59:48 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> H Subject: RE: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDCEJGCAAA.dallen@nist.gov>  N 	I'm aware of the nature of the compromise.  I was simply trying to illustrateR 	that there are many weaknesses in the Open Source community (i.e server security)O 	that have to be considered as well as the public scrutiny issue. Obviously the 8 	compromise was detected rather quickly (about a week?).   	Dan   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: bdc@world.std.com [mailto:bdc@world.std.com]* > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 5:50 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com J > Subject: Re: CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution >  > < > In article <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEAEEOLFEAA.dallen@nist.gov>,$ > Dan Allen <dallen@nist.gov> wrote: > > H > >       Just demonstrates the virtues of Open Source software.  PublicF > >       scrutiny is so much better than that proprietary code review5 > >       stuff as we recently learned in this forum.  > L > FWIW, if you read the advisory, someone had broken into their FTP site andH > replaced the official distribution file with the compromised file.  ItG > wasn't a failing of sendmail as Open Source software, rather it was a ) > failing in their FTP server's security.  > 	 > -brian.  > --  H > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----F >           "A tree or shrub can grow and bloom. I am always the same.7 >                          But I am clever." -- Racter.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:35:47 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: File convert ? + Message-ID: <3DA719FC.B7FD91C@videotron.ca>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: L > If you're using the ANSI translator embedded into the CPS style symbionts,G > this should work just fine.  The symbiont knows where the page breaks G > occdur in the ANSI data.  And you can specify Postscript format setup * > modules within an ANSI format print job.   How do you do that ?    > I have DCPS_LIB defined as "DCPS$DEVCTL" "SYSDEVCTL/DATA=ANSI"  H Does this mean that if I print a text file to a queue defined as an ANSIJ queue, I could specify a module that is stored in DCPS$DEVCTL and it wouldL know it is postscript, whereas if I specify a module stored in SYSDEVCTL, itB knows that its format is ANSI and would convert it to postscript ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:50:47 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> . Subject: Re: Grant an identifier to an image ?, Message-ID: <3DA70F73.ACA886C2@videotron.ca>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: F > Ordinarily, if someone messages around with file headers on a volumeA > and convinces the system manager to mount it /SYSTEM the impact F > is that users can get to files _on that volume_ that they shouldn't.   Ok, I see the danger now.   K However, couldn't the /SUBSYSTEM be disabled with a warning when a formerly J private drive is mounted /SYSTEM ?  But when a drive that was last mountedJ /SYSTEM is remounted, is it correct to state that /SUBSYSTEM could be made& default without any security dangers ?  N Is there a way to produce a listing of all *files* on a drive that have an ACL+ indentifier that has the "subsystem" flag ?    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2002 13:56:30 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: Re: Grant an identifier to an image ?3 Message-ID: <kqliDK9xl8ds@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3DA70F73.ACA886C2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: G >> Ordinarily, if someone messages around with file headers on a volume B >> and convinces the system manager to mount it /SYSTEM the impactG >> is that users can get to files _on that volume_ that they shouldn't.  >  > Ok, I see the danger now.  > M > However, couldn't the /SUBSYSTEM be disabled with a warning when a formerly L > private drive is mounted /SYSTEM ?  But when a drive that was last mountedL > /SYSTEM is remounted, is it correct to state that /SUBSYSTEM could be made( > default without any security dangers ?  C VMS doesn't do anything to track the state of the physical media on C drives that are not currently mounted.  If somebody wants to remove D a CD from your console drive and replace it with another, you're notG going to be any the wiser.  And if somebody mounts a cluster-accessible B drive on another cluster member and messes with all the bits, your? node isn't going to be informed.  Even if we keep things on one : node, I don't think VMS keeps a "last mounted private" bit in the UCB.   > If you can't trust the data on the drive you are mounting, you= can't trust a bit that says "this volume is safe for use with ; /subsystem".  So you can't keep meaningful context on disk.   ? There is little point establishing a default behavior that only @ applies in some cases.  Better a consistent default to "no" thanA a fuzzy default to "sometimes yes but only if we think its safe".   P > Is there a way to produce a listing of all *files* on a drive that have an ACL- > indentifier that has the "subsystem" flag ?   > $ PIPE DIR disk:[000000...]*.*;* | SEARCH SYS$PIPE "subsystem"  # is about as good as I can think of.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2002 14:48:17 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: Grant an identifier to an image ?3 Message-ID: <q2hQQv+V$LWx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3DA6FBD4.D15DF83A@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:$ > "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" wrote:: >>  Volume owner can do *anything* on the volume, can also >> modify file headers :)  > N > HELP MOUNT /SUBSYSTEM Example provides an example of a privatly mounted disk > with /SUBSYSTEM enabled. > M > What prevents any user from mounting a drive /SUBSYSTEM, then set an ACL to O > their own image on the drive which will give it access to some important data  > file on another drive ?   E    Device and volume protections.  What did you think this was, UNIX?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:19:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> . Subject: Re: Grant an identifier to an image ?, Message-ID: <3DA7405E.3FC75EB3@videotron.ca>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: @ > If you can't trust the data on the drive you are mounting, you? > can't trust a bit that says "this volume is safe for use with = > /subsystem".  So you can't keep meaningful context on disk.   N If a drive was allowed to be mounted private by an unprivileged user trying toM do stuff that isn't kosher, then the drive shouldn't be trusted to begin with  and not mounted /SYSTEM.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 21:27:53 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents' Message-ID: <3DA788A9.96787311@fsi.net>    Simon Clubley wrote: > ] > In article <3DA3986D.D2D21442@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > Stuart Johnson wrote:  > >>O > >> Does anyone have any information on what is going to be in the forthcoming L > >> hobbyist kits from Montgar? I am hoping that it will contail the entireH > >> layered products disks, ie. be the full OS distribution and layered$ > >> products. I can dream, can't I? > > K > > Well, if you can dream up a way to cram a couple gigabytes of data onto E > > a 650MB CD-ROM, yes, I guess you can dream. Otherwise, a multi-CD I > > distribution would be called for and that would likely push the price J > > into territory that would make it prohibitive to the very audience the* > > hobbyist program is intended to reach. > >  >  > Use ZIP compression.  @ I'd thought about that. Trouble is, .PCSIs are already partiallyB compressed - they are DCX-ed, which is none too efficient, but theB resulting file doesn't squeeze down as much as some savesets will.  5 > A quick example using the Ada Predefined Libraries:  > = > The file size in blocks as downloaded from the VMS website:  >  > ADAPAL035.EXE;1         8025 >  > The expanded saveset:  >  > ADAPAL035.A;1          30798 > F > [Note that the compressed saveset is in ZIP format, not DCX format.]  H ...and if you take the contents of the average DCX_EXE, you'll find that0 ZIP gives a good 1/3 better compression or more.   > So, a couple of ideas: > J > 1) Continue with the 1 CD per architecture that is currently in use, andK > leave the most common layered products in uncompressed form, but load the . > rest of the CD with zipped layered products. > H > 2) Continue with the architecture specific CD as now, leaving the sameH > layered products on the CD in uncompressed format. However, produce anM > additional architecture specific layered product CD and fit as many layered 7 > products on this CD in compressed format as possible.  > L > My preference is for option 2, and if David charges another US$30 for thisL > CD on top of the US$30 that he charges as the moment, that is a price I am
 > happy with.   D Well, I can say from experience that trying to cook up automation toC package the layered products into LD containers is no small task. I B worked about a week on some DCL code about a year ago, but haven'tE touched it since. I tried using the CD_CONTENTS.DAT file to drive the C procedure, but cross-referencing that to the LMF product ID.'s is a F purely manual task. Yeah, ya only gotta do it once at the outset, thenF maintain it as new products get added to OVMS-HOBBY. Still, it has not. been a simple task for my little peanut-brain.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:41:34 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ; Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents - some rambling thoughts F Message-ID: <OiCp9.12402$vX.2182@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  2 "Dean Woodward" <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote in message" news:3DA6E82E.7050804@rdrop.com... > David Froble wrote:  > K > > I'd also suggest that paying customers with a software support contract I > > wouldn't object to a one time purchase of a device that supports VPN, H > > and that they could be assigned unique VPN login accounts by HP, andI > > then they would download the software products that they use/want via  > > secured VPN. > F > Heh.  I was being melodramatic, over the top, and obviously thinking2 > *way& too hard:  See the CERT / Sendmail thread: > @ >  > CERT Advisory CA-2002-28 Trojan Horse Sendmail Distribution3 >  > http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2002-28.html  > C > Someone broke into their FTP server and replaced the distribution F > (source code, not that that matters) with a compromised version.  NoG > VPN in the world is going to help that.  (Checking the MD5 sums might / > have- *if* those weren't compromised as well.  > F > > I don't know enough about the VPN capabilities to know if a publicL > > access VPN, ie; known login data, would compromise security of the link,C > > but for hobbyist users I don't think that the security issue is G > > paramount.  Remember, it cannot be used for commercial purposes, so  > > what's the real exposure?  > / > Nah, I'm not worried about my hobbyist boxen.  > G > If they [HP]wanted to get creative enough, a secure [enough, for most H > people's reasonable values of "secure"] means of distribution could be
 > worked out.     K Sure....each local HP office has a stack of CD's. You request one, they put K it in an envelope at the reception desk and you send a bicycle courier over F to pick it up same day.  Courier may have a tough time getting throughA security though - his tongue stud may set off the metal detector.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:49:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: How hard is this for HP to do? F Message-ID: <mXFp9.14605$vX.7327@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  J Sybase manges to reach Wall Street Journal subscribers via the WSJ mailing list I subscribe to.  = Slide #18 from the .ppt presentation mentioned earlier today, L http://www.openvms.compaq.com/availability/HP_OPENVMS-HA-DT.htm , would formJ the basis of a good e-mail advertisment attached to news alerts like this.  / Bet you $100 HP doesn't do anything this smart.             - Date:         Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:48:25 -0400 $ Reply-To: access@INTERACTIVE.WSJ.COM" Sender: access@INTERACTIVE.WSJ.COM/ From: "WSJ.com Editors" <e-mail.center@WSJ.COM> 5 Subject:      MARKET ALERT: Dow Industrials Soar 4.2% & To: MARKET_ALERT@LISTSERV.DOWJONES.COM  " __________________________________ MARKET ALERT from The Wall Street Journal    
 Oct. 11, 2002   H U.S. stocks leapt after bellwether blue chip GE posted quarterly resultsK that matched investor expectations. The Dow Jones Industrial Average jumped K 316.34 to 7850.29, and the Nasdaq Composite Index rose 47.10 to 1210.47. It H was the first time since August that either index ended the week higher.   FOR COMPLETE COVERAGE, see:  http://online.wsj.com/markets     " __________________________________
 ADVERTISEMENT   > The Sybase PATRIOTcompliance Solution can help you comply with> the USA PATRIOT Act.  This fully automated solution integrates; with your current systems and reduces administrative costs.  Find out more at  H http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;obfuscated;r?http://www.sybase.com/patriot   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:25:43 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: How hard is this for HP to do? ' Message-ID: <3DA79637.62307DA7@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > L > Sybase manges to reach Wall Street Journal subscribers via the WSJ mailing > list I subscribe to. > ? > Slide #18 from the .ppt presentation mentioned earlier today, N > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/availability/HP_OPENVMS-HA-DT.htm , would formL > the basis of a good e-mail advertisment attached to news alerts like this. > 1 > Bet you $100 HP doesn't do anything this smart.   H Oh, you can safely bet a good deal more than $100-US! I'm sure you could safely bet your career on it!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:43:16 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>L Subject: Identifying a Template Unit (was Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?)' Message-ID: <ao7644$jp0$1@lore.csc.com>   W On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:58:27 -0400, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:    > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > H > > How can LTA0: be mounted when it's offline? What does it mean? (It's. > > not a problem; I'm just curious about it.) > * > LTA0: is just a "prototype" for the real* > LAT devices that will be created as LAT-- > connected terminals connect to your system.   D How does one identify a "template" device (other examples are DAD0:,G DNSF0:, etc.) in code, either DCL or a 3GL? I've tried to find a device E characteristic which tells you. SHOW DEVICE /FULL knows what it is... E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E David M. Smith 302.391.8533                   dsmit115 at csc dot com E Computer Sciences Corporation (Opinions are those of the writer only) E ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 02 13:16:23 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com P Subject: Re: Identifying a Template Unit (was Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?)( Message-ID: <ZNpa7Etapl2T@cpva.saic.com>  ' In article <ao7644$jp0$1@lore.csc.com>, )  David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes: Y > On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:58:27 -0400, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:  >  >> "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:  >>  I >> > How can LTA0: be mounted when it's offline? What does it mean? (It's / >> > not a problem; I'm just curious about it.)  >>  + >> LTA0: is just a "prototype" for the real + >> LAT devices that will be created as LAT- . >> connected terminals connect to your system. > F > How does one identify a "template" device (other examples are DAD0:,I > DNSF0:, etc.) in code, either DCL or a 3GL? I've tried to find a device G > characteristic which tells you. SHOW DEVICE /FULL knows what it is... G > --------------------------------------------------------------------- G > David M. Smith 302.391.8533                   dsmit115 at csc dot com G > Computer Sciences Corporation (Opinions are those of the writer only) G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------  >    In DCL... since   L $ pipe/nosym/nolog libr/extr=$ucbdef/out=sys$output: sys$library:lib.mlb | -   sear sys$pipe UCB$M_TEMPLATE   tells us that     $EQU    UCB$M_TEMPLATE  <^X2000>   you can just check if   4   (f$getdvi("ddcu:","sts") .and. %x2000) .eq. %x2000  . so for a device passed to the following as p1   2 $ if (f$getdvi(p1,"sts") .and. %x2000) .eq. %x2000 $ then1 $   write sys$output "''p1' is a template device"  $ else5 $   write sys$output "''p1' is not a template device"  $ endif    --   - Jim    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:08:59 -0400 ) From: "Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> P Subject: Re: Identifying a Template Unit (was Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?): Message-ID: <f6Gp9.31574$da7.713178@news20.bellglobal.com>   Use F$Getdvi(device,"sts"). > If the %x2000 bit is on, then the device is a template device.   Scott   3 "David M Smith" <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote in message ! news:ao7644$jp0$1@lore.csc.com... 4 > On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:58:27 -0400, Atlant Schmidt$ <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote: >  > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > J > > > How can LTA0: be mounted when it's offline? What does it mean? (It's0 > > > not a problem; I'm just curious about it.) > > , > > LTA0: is just a "prototype" for the real, > > LAT devices that will be created as LAT-/ > > connected terminals connect to your system.  > F > How does one identify a "template" device (other examples are DAD0:,I > DNSF0:, etc.) in code, either DCL or a 3GL? I've tried to find a device G > characteristic which tells you. SHOW DEVICE /FULL knows what it is... G > --------------------------------------------------------------------- G > David M. Smith 302.391.8533                   dsmit115 at csc dot com G > Computer Sciences Corporation (Opinions are those of the writer only) G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:26:11 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possible F Message-ID: <7cBp9.12013$vX.5851@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message ( news:3DA6F5A2.4BA41F08@mindspring.com... > John Smith wrote:  > L > > Interesting possibilities can come of this - by extension, HP may have aI > > fiduciary responsibility to shareholders to continue developing Alpha  EV8 K > > and PA-RISC for the long-term future health of the company. Seems to me  thatI > > bringing the EV8 boys back into the fold would be a wise thing to do.  > 2 > But "the EV-8 boys" all work for Intel, AMD, and6 > Sun (plus a few others) these days. Surely you don't5 > think hot-shot silicon wranglers let the grass grow 5 > underneath their feet when their patron punts their  > architecture, do you?  > , > (Where do you think Sun got the ~5,000 who+ > staff(ed)-up their Burlington, MA campus? 0 > Heck, in case folks didn't get the point, they > even installed a clocktower!)     ? Signing bonuses are a lot cheaper than having the company sink.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:16:40 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>A Subject: Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possible . Message-ID: <3DA71588.B9128CC5@mindspring.com>   John Smith wrote:   6 > "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote. > > (Where do you think Sun got the ~5,000 who- > > staff(ed)-up their Burlington, MA campus? 2 > > Heck, in case folks didn't get the point, they! > > even installed a clocktower!)  > A > Signing bonuses are a lot cheaper than having the company sink.   / I can't speak for the Silicon Jocks, but I know - if I were them it would have to be The Mother * of All Signing Bonuses to get *ME* to come, back and trust  DEC/Compaq/HP a second time,6 especially if I were currently doing useful, creative,& *MARKETED*, *SUCCESSFUL* work for Sun, AMD, or Intel.  , After all, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool' me twice, err, won't get fooled again!"    Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:57:01 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possible J Message-ID: <1aFp9.184201$q41.121340@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message ( news:3DA71588.B9128CC5@mindspring.com... > John Smith wrote:  > 8 > > "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote0 > > > (Where do you think Sun got the ~5,000 who/ > > > staff(ed)-up their Burlington, MA campus? 4 > > > Heck, in case folks didn't get the point, they# > > > even installed a clocktower!)  > > C > > Signing bonuses are a lot cheaper than having the company sink.  > 1 > I can't speak for the Silicon Jocks, but I know / > if I were them it would have to be The Mother , > of All Signing Bonuses to get *ME* to come. > back and trust  DEC/Compaq/HP a second time,8 > especially if I were currently doing useful, creative,( > *MARKETED*, *SUCCESSFUL* work for Sun, > AMD, or Intel. > . > After all, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool) > me twice, err, won't get fooled again!"      No kidding.   < That's why Carly should to step up onto the soapbox and say,  F "Alpha is back. It was a mistake to cancel it. IA-64 offers no cost orF performance advantages and HP has decided to terminate funding for itsL further development. We'll sell an IA-64 system to anyone who wants one, butF Alpha scales from the desktop to the data center today. We're going toL reopen 64-Windows development on Alpha in partnership with Microsoft, and weK will have application release parity for all MS products on x86 and related  families and Alpha."  I " VMS is here to stay on Alpha, and IA-64 if you want it there too. As to I our unix offerings, we have after much thoughtful reflection decided that L the best course for all our unix customers is to organ donate the best partsK of HP-UX to Tru64 Unix. Tru64 is a superior product. We will however rename L the resulting product HP-UX, but make no mistake about it, Tru64 will be itsI core. All Tandem development will once again be focused on Alpha cpu's at  the core of those systems."   G But it ain't gonna happen, despite the fact that it is the right set of  moves to make.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2002 14:32:13 -0700( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)A Subject: Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possible < Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0210111332.7b1ed587@posting.google.com>  u "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<9GBp9.183261$q41.152779@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... A > "John Eisenschmidt" <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in message / > news:20021011141141.D6608@eisenschmidt.org... E > > "A U.S. district court ruled that Intel Corp.'s Itanium processor H > > infringes the intellectual property of Intergraph Corp., and ordered) > > Intel to pay $150 million in damages.  > > G > > Moreover, the judge ruled that Intergraph can ask for an injunction J > > blocking sales of the Itanium or Itanium 2 processors. The court ruledJ > > that Intel "directly infringes" patents held on Intergraph's "parallelJ > > instruction computing" (PIC) technology used in Intel's Itanium family > > of 64-bit processors. "  > > < > > http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,626236,00.asp >  > I > So Intel gets caught with its hand in the cookie jar yet again. Digital ' > caved. Glad to see Intergraph hasn't.  > J > Interesting possibilities can come of this - by extension, HP may have aK > fiduciary responsibility to shareholders to continue developing Alpha EV8 N > and PA-RISC for the long-term future health of the company. Seems to me thatG > bringing the EV8 boys back into the fold would be a wise thing to do.   F If Intel has to cough up $150 million then they will pass the costs onA to the consumer driving up the price of the Itanic.  Meanwhile MS F doesn't seem to care if that chip drops dead or not and Linus Torvalds@ prays Intel will adopt Yamhill.  Can things become more grim for OpenVMS on Itanium?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:03:29 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> A Subject: Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents, Injunction Possibles, Message-ID: <3DA74AAC.A27ECD1C@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:A> > That's why Carly should to step up onto the soapbox and say, > H > "Alpha is back. It was a mistake to cancel it. IA-64 offers no cost orH > performance advantages and HP has decided to terminate funding for its > further development.    M It would have made far more sense if on June 24th, Carly would have announcedt the takeover of Compaq as:  N "By buying Compaq, we can not only streamline the wintel business, but we willN be able to maximise the value of products and technologies whose potential wasK not developped by Compaq. As a result of this purchase, HP will inherit the M Alpha architecture which it indends to fully deploy and which will give HP aneH undeniable advantage over its competitors. Alpha will give HP an instantL access to a proven and mature 64 bit technology that has advanced far beyond7 what Intel's much delayed project has so far yielded.  a  J The combination of HP's marketing savvy with the technological legacy fromL Digital and Tandem will make HP a formidable IT supplier and clearly make HP' THE uncontested leader of the industry"a    L If carly had put the deal this way, I wouldn't be surprised if the Hewlett's would have supported it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 21:29:22 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p0 Subject: Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read' Message-ID: <3DA78902.3264DE7E@fsi.net>d   Bernard Giroud wrote:l > = > In trying to port ncurses on to VMS, we just hit a problem:n > ? > Is it possible to just set the terminal with a combination oflA > modes and characteristics so that the posix read in lib_getch.ct: > will return immediately for 1 key instead of waiting for > a terminator?S  H I'm sure what you want is possible using $QIOW, but I don't know if that would be suitable.   -- 4 David J. Dachterab dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:38:08 GMT 0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>I Subject: Re: OpenVMS immunity to virus and security breeches from hackers42 Message-ID: <kUEp9.21$jU4.610391@news.cpqcorp.net>   fixed, it will mirror overnightr   -warren0  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:FzBp9.183260$q41.148735@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >S7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message>% > news:3DA6A5BB.2388E6A8@127.0.0.1...e- > > I'm grateful to Dave Foddy for this link.o > > < > > Check out slide 18, it should be attached to billboards. > > C > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/availability/HP_OPENVMS-HA-DT.htm  > > 8 > > (Download the PPT and view the notes pages for more) >d >  > Don't they ever get it?d >uH > From the note on the first slide, "The primary audience is the OpenVMSG > installed-base customer but it may also be applicable to new businesss > situations". > L > May be applicable??!!?!!?? Of course it's freakin' applicable. The biggestH > advantages over almost anything else on the market and they don't want- > potential *new* customers to know about it.e >lG > Put Scott McNeally in front of an audience extolling capabilities anddJ > reliability like this and Sun's stock would be $45 again. It would be inE > HP's best interest to pay Scott $100MM+ per year as chairman of HP.r >a >A   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:12:37 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> I Subject: Re: OpenVMS immunity to virus and security breeches from hackerse' Message-ID: <3DA79325.46CF84EA@fsi.net>    "Doc.Cypher" wrote:i > @ > On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:, > >I'm grateful to Dave Foddy for this link. > > ; > >Check out slide 18, it should be attached to billboards.5 > >?B > >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/availability/HP_OPENVMS-HA-DT.htm > % > Yes, that would make a nice advert.- > D > Shame people would be laughing at the spelling mistake at the top. >  >    "breeches"?  H Once more into the breech. Cry, HAVOC! ...and let loose the dogs of war!   -- t David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/T   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:55:01 GMTt. From: "David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com> Subject: PeopleSoft on VMS2 Message-ID: <VfEp9.16$OX4.685205@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Now would be a very good time to make your real/actual/true PeopleSoft oniJ VMS requirements known.  Also, knowing the impact of not having PeopleSoft on VMS would be useful too.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:47:55 -0400J* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS6 Message-ID: <IOCcnTxz56Nn2zqgXTWcpw@News.GigaNews.Com>  9 "David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com> wrote in messageo, news:VfEp9.16$OX4.685205@news.cpqcorp.net...K > Now would be a very good time to make your real/actual/true PeopleSoft onsL > VMS requirements known.  Also, knowing the impact of not having PeopleSoft > on VMS would be useful too.o  K OK, you made me sufficiently curious to go to peoplesoft.com and search for)I 'VMS'.  It got two hits:  one from 1997, and the second a recent one with @ the parenthetical addition (for legacy systems) following 'VMS'.  I So:  Is any PeopleSoft product currently offered on VMS and you're askingtL what the impact would be if it disappeared (a somewhat ominous question), orG are no PeopleSoft products still on VMS and you're asking how much thatoD hurts (a question with some positive implications, since it at leastL suggests that HPaq might be considering prodding PeopleSoft to support VMS)?   - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:07:33 +0000 (UTC)v+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)f Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS+ Message-ID: <ao7ljl$3qv$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  c In article <IOCcnTxz56Nn2zqgXTWcpw@News.GigaNews.Com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:i > : >"David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com> wrote in message- >news:VfEp9.16$OX4.685205@news.cpqcorp.net... L >> Now would be a very good time to make your real/actual/true PeopleSoft onM >> VMS requirements known.  Also, knowing the impact of not having PeopleSoftp >> on VMS would be useful too. >rL >OK, you made me sufficiently curious to go to peoplesoft.com and search forJ >'VMS'.  It got two hits:  one from 1997, and the second a recent one withA >the parenthetical addition (for legacy systems) following 'VMS'.  > J >So:  Is any PeopleSoft product currently offered on VMS and you're askingM >what the impact would be if it disappeared (a somewhat ominous question), orhH >are no PeopleSoft products still on VMS and you're asking how much thatE >hurts (a question with some positive implications, since it at least M >suggests that HPaq might be considering prodding PeopleSoft to support VMS)?a >d >- bill  >e  N Yes I believe Peoplesoft have pretty much dropped all their latest versions of products on VMS.N Unfortunately even if they do start supporting it again it's probably too lateM here. We've currently got a Peoplesoft Human resources system running on VMS.eI Due to lack of support on VMS for the latest versions that was moving to sL Peoplesoft on Tru64. However due to other things happening in the UniversityL that move has been put off for a while. It'll probably still end up on Tru64L but then again it might end up on Solaris. I'd like to imagine that a changeN from Peoplesoft and HP might allow us to keep with VMS but considering most ofM the other VMS based admin systems have been replaced or are in the process ofnM being replaced with Unix systems I'm not hopeful that even that change would s be enough now. i    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 21:22:08 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS, Message-ID: <3DA7792A.8E41CCA7@videotron.ca>   David Webb wrote:0J > Due to lack of support on VMS for the latest versions that was moving toN > Peoplesoft on Tru64. However due to other things happening in the UniversityN > that move has been put off for a while. It'll probably still end up on Tru64  K Why would a company choose to migrate from VMS to Tru64 at this juncture inf time ? e  K Seems rather a waste to make the effort to port to another architecture youa1 know will need another port in a couple of years.f  J has PeopleSoft made any credible commitments to continue to make their new4 releases available on Tru64 for any length of time ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:22:22 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>~ Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS' Message-ID: <3DA7956E.47E58EFF@fsi.net>t   David Rabahy wrote:  > K > Now would be a very good time to make your real/actual/true PeopleSoft onaL > VMS requirements known.  Also, knowing the impact of not having PeopleSoft > on VMS would be useful too.r  D Some clues regarding who we should express them to would be helpful.  H I can say this much here: where I'm at now, we have PeopleSoft on HP-UX.C Given that platform's dubious future, I can understand that anotherh( might be in the process of being sought.  F I'm too much of a bigot, though. To me, anyone who *HAS* to be told toH port to VMS will never understand the reason why; so, no point in trying to explain.V   -- Y David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:52:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS, Message-ID: <3DA7AA8B.FA230AF5@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:H > I'm too much of a bigot, though. To me, anyone who *HAS* to be told toJ > port to VMS will never understand the reason why; so, no point in trying
 > to explain.   8 Your comment only applies to a healthy operating system.  N Digital was going around telling ISVs to stop bothering with VMS, so some pushK from VMS's owner would be needed to turn the tide around. If Digital-HP canuN convince a few key ISVs to go back to VMS and if HP can start to mention "VMS"M in its public speeches to send a strong message that HP's top management viewd9 VMS as a core product, then other ISVs may return to VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:09:44 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t* Subject: RE: SEAGATE ST336706LC Disk Drive9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEEHFOAA.tom@kednos.com>u  4 Just out of curiosity, are those trays unique to HP,: or would they also work in, for example, a Dell Poweredge?  5 In other words are there any industry standards here?g       >-----Original Message-----s) >From: Island [mailto:sales@islandco.com]@' >Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 9:59 AMv >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ >Subject: Re: SEAGATE ST336706LC Disk Drivei >o >n >Alang >a >It will work fine > L >If you need some of the universal hot plug trays I have a load for $95 each >  >David >u >--c >David B Turnero
 >Sales Dpt  >Island Computers US Corporation >2700 Gregory Street
 >Suite 180 >Savannah GA 31404 >Tel: 912 447 6622 >Fax: 912 201 0096 >sales@islandco.comv >www.islandco.comd( >http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htm >u >We sell Alpha Systems !+ >All emails are checked for Virus and Wormsu3 >"Alan Fay" <alan@fay.demon.co.uk> wrote in message / >news:ao6qlr$3vl$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...h >h. >Does anyone know if a SEAGATE ST336706LC Disk0 >drive will fit and work correctly in the 6-slot >drive bay of a DS20E. >a/ >The SCSI 36.7GB disk is 1 inch high and has anh/ >80 pin I/O connector (for SCSI and power req).i >  >System is running OpenVMS 7.3.  >  >Alanw >  >  >  >s >o >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oA >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002t >d ---y& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2002 14:38:20 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAXi3 Message-ID: <AZdGdVXkH07i@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <01C27101.70164990@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:"  G > They are (or the founder is) responsible for a lot of the differences H > between American English and Proper English. For example, I believe itI > was Webster who started the barbaric practice of pronouncing the lettereF > "Z" as Zee instead of Zed, and dropping the absolutely essential "u"H > from colour. It wouldn't surprise me to learn they'd mangled "nuclear" > too.  H    Proper English?  Now what the hell is that?  Something the Queen onceE    spoke?  Sorry, we got rid of the last queen we had, was married to K    one of those painfull German English kings (some fellow named George).  m  E    As far as Zed, that of course if French, not English, and any goodbB    English speaking fellow should know better.  Don't know when itB    became habit on your little island but in the US we'll keep the    original.  F    As far as stuffing extra u's in here and there, go ahead.  That way1    we know it's you silly folks that are writing.      8-)-   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2002 13:00:50 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAX = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210111200.4f309a59@posting.google.com>s  h Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DA6C54F.B951EE47@mindspring.com>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > G > > Merriam Webster (their online address is www.webster.com) says both  > > are acceptable.... > - > Aren't they the gang that has acquiesced ton0 > "nook-you-lar" as an acceptable pronounciation > of the word "nuclear"? >  > Atlant  ; Holy SYS$PETUNIAS! You're right! Talk about disappointment!   B I hate that pronunciation. But I'm afraid even some physicists are guilty of using it.c  R" > So this neutron goes into a bar,  >   sit down and orders a drink. > $ > As he gets up to leave, he ask the% >   barkeep "How much for the drink?"h >  > "For you, no charge."   " Physicists do it by superposition.   May the net force be with you.  D (Hey, all the other physics jokes I know are bad, for example: WatchF out for Quantum ducks! Quark quark. or this "gem": Heisenberg may have slept here.k  4 Physics just doesn't lend itself to humor very well.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 20:44:56 +0200 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: Technical Questionw) Message-ID: <3DA71C28.4000509@vajhoej.dk>s   Matthias Djurkovic wrote:o  D > I have a question: a colleague told me, that disks that are filled< > more than 75% do not perform as good as less filled disks.E > Unfortunately, he was not able to tell me the technical reasons for E > this statement, and you know, I always want to know the reasons foru > such statements ;-)e > H > The only reason I can find for such a statement is that it will becomeC > problematically with file and freespace fragmentation. But we aretB > using a defragmentation tool and for that reason it cannot be an > issue. > 5 > Can somebody explain the technical facts for this??t  6 Full disk => file fragmentation => slower file access.  0 The actual effect depends on the usage patterns.  - The traditional rules-of-thumbs I recall say:e(    - max. 70% full without defragmenting%    - max. 90% full with defragmentingC   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:15:00 -0400r( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Technical Questiony, Message-ID: <3DA71524.8050107@tsoft-inc.com>   Matthias Djurkovic wrote:    > Hello fellows, > D > I have a question: a colleague told me, that disks that are filled< > more than 75% do not perform as good as less filled disks.E > Unfortunately, he was not able to tell me the technical reasons for E > this statement, and you know, I always want to know the reasons for3 > such statements ;-)  > H > The only reason I can find for such a statement is that it will becomeC > problematically with file and freespace fragmentation. But we areoB > using a defragmentation tool and for that reason it cannot be an > issue. > 5 > Can somebody explain the technical facts for this??v > " > Thanks in advance for any input! > 	 > Cheers,A
 > Matthias >   N This whole issue depends upon usage.  A fairly full rather volitile disk will N fragment quickly and severely.  90% is a number I remember from way way back. M 75% doesn't bother me at all.  I like to see even more free space, depending r upon usage.a  P Now, a file with 10% usage can have all the used storage on a small part of the J disk.  This reduces disk head movement, and will affect speed.  Some past N comments about getting a rather large capacity disk, and only using the outer Q 10% of tracks for superior performance is a speed-up, but the wastage of storage t space does bother me a bit.1   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:10:32 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Re: Technical Question , Message-ID: <3DA73E47.57642A6F@videotron.ca>   Arne Vajhj wrote:8 > Full disk => file fragmentation => slower file access.  M But if your disk is filled with equally sized files, then fragmention doesn'tgK occur as much since when you delete one, it makes the right amount of spacea for another file.   K With ODS2 and (I suspect ODS5), does it affect file system performance wheni) you have a lot more files in INDEXF.SYS ?C   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:45:41 +0200m6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: Technical Questionk) Message-ID: <3DA74685.8020605@vajhoej.dk>s   JF Mezei wrote:c   > Arne Vajhj wrote:8 >>Full disk => file fragmentation => slower file access. > O > But if your disk is filled with equally sized files, then fragmention doesn'tmM > occur as much since when you delete one, it makes the right amount of spacen > for another file.     ; The exact relation between fill of disk and defragmentationl is complex.   4 The scenario with delete and create of equally sized$ files will not create fragmentation.  5 With todays often big cluster-sizes, then small filesr* like source code is usually not a problem.  4 One huge pre-allocated database-file will not create fragmentation at all.c  4 A PathWorks file-share with lots of medium size Word3 documents and PC software EXE's can create a lot oft fragmentation.  - The worst thing of all is log-files that growu
 over time.  & Including files like ACCOUNTNG.DAT and  SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL !  M > With ODS2 and (I suspect ODS5), does it affect file system performance when + > you have a lot more files in INDEXF.SYS ?     < It should not. Usually files will be looked up in INDEXF.SYS! by FID and not read sequentially.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:48:23 -0400D- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>eL Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266...5 Message-ID: <ao75ng$jr22f$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>e  & "LMcC" <sorry@nospam> wrote in message) news:uqe2ma2tj8a32e@corp.supernews.com...i >...H > tried this - it was on graphics.  Set it to serial but then every bootJ > attempt hangs up at "jumping to bootstrap".  Changed it back to graphics andtJ > now we get past the jumping and hang at the accounting. (Like the usual, > original problem). >...  J You're doing this on a graphics monitor with a keyboard and mouse? I wouldJ set the console to SERIAL, unplug the monitor, keyboard and mouse and plugH in a VT220 (or whatever you have around). Sounds like you have a problemJ when DECWindows tries to kick in at the end of the boot. My guess would beK an unsupported graphics card (maybe Fred will jump in here if he sees this)x or a bad graphics card.   I Have you tried doing a SET HOST from another VMS box (didn't know you had J any in the previous posts) into this one to see if VMS is hung or if it is only the console that is hung?     -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:11:52 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>sL Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266...5 Message-ID: <ao7baj$jqr54$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>    LMcC wrote:c >... >:D > Will report back on Monday as my workday is drawing to a close.... >...  I I'll be enjoying my Thanksgiving on Monday. But there are many others out  here that can help.   0 Happy Turkey day to all the Canadians out there!   -- Peter WeaverD Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,A nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that itv sub-contracts to.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:57:15 -0400d From: "LMcC" <sorry@nospam> L Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266.../ Message-ID: <uqeb8rovl6hn71@corp.supernews.com>d  8 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message/ news:ao75ng$jr22f$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...f( > "LMcC" <sorry@nospam> wrote in message+ > news:uqe2ma2tj8a32e@corp.supernews.com...- > >...J > > tried this - it was on graphics.  Set it to serial but then every bootL > > attempt hangs up at "jumping to bootstrap".  Changed it back to graphics > anduL > > now we get past the jumping and hang at the accounting. (Like the usual, > > original problem). > >... >pL > You're doing this on a graphics monitor with a keyboard and mouse? I wouldL > set the console to SERIAL, unplug the monitor, keyboard and mouse and plugJ > in a VT220 (or whatever you have around). Sounds like you have a problemL > when DECWindows tries to kick in at the end of the boot. My guess would beG > an unsupported graphics card (maybe Fred will jump in here if he sees  this)0 > or a bad graphics card.e >e  E Hmmmmmmmmmm - When we first resurrected this beast from the grave, weyG naturally popped the hood to get a peek at its' innards.  When we first-J powered it up (after closing the case), we didn't get any video at all.  IG popped the case again and noticed a jumper labled VGA and it was set toiJ "OFF" - so I switched it to on, powered back up and have been running withD that video ever since.  Perhaps it was originally set to "off" for aL reason....We do have many flavors of VTxxx monitors laying around just doingH nothing but collecting dust.  I'll see if I can dig one up and give it a spin.7  B Will report back on Monday as my workday is drawing to a close....   :o)S   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:02:41 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> L Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266...' Message-ID: <3DA790D1.BE1FB410@fsi.net>n   LMcC wrote:' > K > ...and failing miserably.  I feel I must be doing something fundamentally>M > wrong (Which shouldn't be too surprising as I never even saw a VMS or Alphao > machine before yesterday.).i > L > I know so little about this that I'm not even sure what info you guys needM > in order to help...so I'll try not to be stupid. (I'll have to try *really*y
 > hard...)M > (BTW, I've been scouring the Digital OpenVMS manuals and the Compaq/digital-L > websites but it seems all their info is geared towards someone who has VMS2 > up and running.  I can't even get _that_ far...)@ > I have successfully booted from the Open VMS for Alpha CD-ROM.M > I think I should be doing an install for a standalone as there are no other M > VMS machines near me (Although there is a network card in the machine and IeN > do have the line plugged in and there are some other machines on the network# > but it's mostly a Win2k network).tL > The install procedure dutifully asks for my license paks which I dutifullyK > type in one after another after another after another (there's a BUNCH ofn1 > them things!) until I have them all registered. K > Me and Alpha happily go through setting the time zone and all that stuff. F > Alpha copies files forever (10%....20%....etc...100%) until its doneK > We reboot and Autogen does it's thing (I guess - it scrolls by so quicklyeA > that I can't tell if it's doing its' thing correctly or not...)eE > (I forget the order but I usually choose not to install any layeredi; > products - though the time I did, I got the same results) M > After Autogen finishes and reboots I get the impression that I should see as. > welcome to VMS banner and a username prompt.M > I never get it.  The system stops at the accounting information screen withrJ > a blinking cursor down in the lower left corner of the screen (next to a > "Charged CPU Time" thing)  > M > Every time, no matter how I install, no matter how I boot, that's where thesN > system stops.  All I can do is ctrl/P to halt the system and get back to theM > >>> prompt.  I CAN, however, get a DCL prompt by booting with OPA0: setting H > and bypassing the login stuff.  I can "Set Noon" to fiddle around withM > different DCL commands - however they rarely run as I usually get some kinduN > of File not found error or "images must be installed" error along with a few$ > others that I can't even remember. > J > I did make sure my PALcode was above the required minimum but other than > that, I have been stumpified.  > ! > Any help for a clueless newbie?-  6 O.k. I'm gonna go a little further out on this limb...  D In my seminar I gave this past Monday at HPETS, I repeated somethingH that I'm pretty sure I heard from Steve Hoffman in a non-NDA session. It goes something like this:u  H Make sure your SYSTARTUP_VMS or something else is not causing the system6 startup sequence to terminate prematurely. Here's why:  H Until a SET LOGINS/INTERACTIVE=value is executed, the Job Controller hasD a flag set in one of its data structures that tells it not to createG interactive processes (not sure about batch, network, etc.). So, if you B were to, say "$ EOJ" or cause a fatal error during SYSTARTUP_VMS(,H SYLOGICALS, etc.,) the SET LOGINS/INTER=value command (which is found inH a later STARTUP phase) will never execute. Hence, no interactive logins,@ regardless of OPER because JBC won't $CREPRC, not even at OPA0:.  H If the install/upgrade leaves the system in the state you indicated (youH *ARE* at the console, right?), then CTRL+P and do a conversational boot:  
 >>> b -fl 0,1   $ ..., then perform a minimal startup:   SYSBOOT>  SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"   SYSBOOT>  SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0   SYSBOOT>  CONT  H ...and see how that goes. It should let you log in because it won't evenH try to run SYSTARTUP_VMS - it'll skip that part (and some others). WhileE the STARTUP is running, watch the screen for any error messages. TheytE begin with a percent sign, then one word (the facility code), a dash,nH one letter (the severity code), another dash, an error mnemonic, a commaH and that should be followed by some text. Don't confuse those with OPCOMD messages which have a series of percent signs, the date and time andF some other text followed by more percent signs, followed on subsequent lines by some text.l  C If you are using a terminal instead of a keyboard directly into the / machine, you can do this at the console prompt:o   >>> show console  + It should say "serial". If not, enter this:    >>> set console serial   Then try booting again.d  E On the other hand, if you *ARE* using a keyboard into the back of theg0 machine and a SVGA monitor (and a mouse?), then:   >>> show console  A ...should come back and say "graphics". If not, set that instead:w   >>> set console graphics   ...and try booting again.-  F With the info in your original post, that's about the best I can offerC for the moment. Post again as your adventure progresses. Someone isi* bound to pipe up and offer something else.   -- n David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:38:14 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Weekly reboots..., Message-ID: <3DA744C3.FD3B5277@videotron.ca>  < Heard a communication from Houston to space station today...  K "Since you're going to be so busy tomorrow, we'd appreciate if you could dohB the weekly reboot of the file server tonight before you go to bed"   A little later on:  M "machine XXX doesn't seem to be responding to our commands anymore, would you  mind rebooting it for us ?"     N Just imagine if Digital were still alive today and still pushing VMS. It wouldN be great publicity to collect all those voice tidbits describing problems withM the station's "commodity" computers and then just end with "those wouldn't beg needed if they had chosen VMS"  N Note that HP participated with the computers on the russian side. The USA sideN is IBM hardware with Sun software for the serious laptops, and Windows for theM not-serious laptops. Only the serious laptops have the software and interfacehN to connect to the command and control computers (specialised computers running a real time OS).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:41:41 -0400h! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>a+ Subject: Re:  Why is LTA0: offline mounted?aK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B7D@rlghncst964.usps.gov>t   -----Original Message-----
 From: VAXVMS  ' Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 12:47 PM  To: 'Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com'n* Subject: Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?    ( Because ***device is a template only.***   And an odd one at that.r  D This reminds me about the message about insufficient virtual memory-  @ (It's not real memory, but you *still* don't have enough of it.)   :^)p   =============================yD How can LTA0: be mounted when it's offline? What does it mean? (It's* not a problem; I'm just curious about it.)   $ SH DEV LT-  . Device                  Device           Error.  Name                   Status           Count. LTA0:                   Offline mounted      0. LTA1:                   Online               0   $ SH DEV LTA0/FUL   9 Terminal LTA0:, device type unknown, is offline, mounted,3 record-orientedw8     device, carriage control, device is a template only.  <     Error count                    0    Operations completed        01     Owner process                 ""    Owner UICt [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,Wo;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size        80  @ VAX/VMS v6.1; v6.2 also shows "Offline mounted" for this device.   Thanks.i   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800 919.874.3043   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:37:11 GMT 0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPedl2 Message-ID: <rTEp9.20$VZ4.749726@news.cpqcorp.net>  E If you think I just javascript just wait.. The new-new-new-new hp.com . templates have so much javascript it's unreal.   Anyway,aG     I've fixed the problem. It was the handler extensions in the config E file. I didn't have the files that I user for includes included as anm extension toK do includes on.. SO, now almost all of the pages in the new format will notfK blow up on javascript with ns3. If the page is made via a cgi it still willc asD cgi's don't do includes and I will have to re-write my 'html footer'J subroutine to pick a different file to dump out as the footer if it's 3.03 or not.iF If there is another semi-modern browser that doesn't do the javascriptJ correctly let me know. I don't want to go back to netscape v1 or something  $ And finally 'why so much javascript'  B There are currently on the OpenVMS homepage 4 hunks of javascript.  H The first does the 'featured partner' graphic. IF you have js turned offJ there is just a blank space. Not a big deal but the featured partners love0 it and I don't have to have them ALL on a page..  K The 2nd is a call out for cswb to tell folks to upgrade if they have an olduJ one Again. IF you have js turned off or aren't using an old CSWB you don't
 see anything.   L The 3rd is 2 hunks for tracking services.. The first is KEYLIME which is theF compaq (now hp) corporate client-side tracking service. This is up forK review and might become some other service. This takes ALL the tag'ed pagessG and glumps them together so we can do metrics and analytics accross thehJ enterprise. There are several hundred web servers and this makes it easierI to track. We also do web log file analysis (I have stats back to 1995 fordJ the OpenVMS site). but it's harder to combine them together. The AnalyticsG group is currently doing a project with one product and is finding very D difficult to put 24 hours worth of logs from several hundred serversL together and get processing done in a reasonable time. Yes it's running on aL windows platform but a unix version wouldn't be that much faster and in fact# would be harder for them to manage.d  H The second hunk is webtrendslive which we are using on a number of sitesK because they can't get any stats out of the keylime system because they aresI 'noise level' to keylime and don't show up in the top 100 reports. We areeL also doing this on the OpenVMS, Tru64 and Nonstop sites because by comparingH our log files and webtrendslive data we get some scaling information (weB don't get as many recorded hits on the client-side as we do on the( server-side). but they are proportional.  I I've tried to make sure that there isn't any javascript required pages onbI the site. There shouldn't be anything you can't do with javascript turned  off.E That's why there are 2 ask the wizard pages. one with and one withoutlK javascript. I did that because doing the pop-ups is much faster than trying-A to reload the page all the time. If you all want I could make theaL non-javascript page create new windows but the speed is really gained on theJ n+1 PAGE not the first one and doing new windows for every q/a is about as$ efficent as re-doing the index page.   -warrenr  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messagee* news:01C27100.7AE853A0@sulfer.icius.com...J > Seconded. I don't mind a little javascript here and there as long as theH > site isn't completely disfunctional without it, since I also surf withI > it disabled. The website with the security slide (see the "bre[e/a]chescG > thread) points to a site that seems to need Javascript to do a simpleH > hyperlink. Sheesh. >  > Shanew >a > -----Original Message-----8 > From: per@nospam.mimer.se [mailto:per@nospam.mimer.se]( > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 4:40 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPedl >o >w0 > Seriously, can't you just drop all javascript? >! > What do you *NEED* it for? >pI > I do all my browsing with javascript turned off. It's this thing I haveaD > with computers and security; I surf the internet because I want toB > read/find information, not because I want my computer to execute > arbitraryi. > code that it stumbles over on various sites. >nI > I have yet to find a site that NEEDs javascript. Fully functional sitesi > can J > be built without it. (Many sites don't work if javascript is turned off,G > but I believe all of them could be made to work if they were properly: > designed.) >nC > So ditch the javascript, and make your sites more compatible with2 > differenti > kind of browsers!" >o > /Per >  >F5 > "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote int) > <F5lp9.37$M74.756849@news.cpqcorp.net>:l >. > >ok,H > >    I've putzed around with the webtrendslive javascript as much as I
 > >    can. I.< > >can't make it stop doing the error on 3.03 and still give > >info on non-3.03 browers..  > >m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:17:46 +0200r6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPedt) Message-ID: <3DA73FFA.3090106@vajhoej.dk>o   JF Mezei wrote:f  + > <img src=featured_partner type=image/gif>o    2 It would be nice with a couple of "" in that, then" you are better prepared for XHTML.  P > Then on your web server, you have a logical "featured_partner" which points toM > a partner's image. At regular intervals, a bacth job changes the logical to D > point to another partner's image. No need for javascript involved.    = Or do the scripting on the server side. CGI, PHP, JSP - theret  are script possibilities enough.  P > Since Apache is open sourced, ever considered simply adding code to the serverN > to record relevant statistics ? no need for JS there and one modification atT > the server level removes need to modify thousands , if no billions, of html files.  4 Apache has a whole bunch of features for customizing log info out of the box.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:07:24 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPedt, Message-ID: <3DA73D8C.37AFA701@videotron.ca>   warren sander wrote:J > The first does the 'featured partner' graphic. IF you have js turned offL > there is just a blank space. Not a big deal but the featured partners love2 > it and I don't have to have them ALL on a page..  ) <img src=featured_partner type=image/gif>s  N Then on your web server, you have a logical "featured_partner" which points toK a partner's image. At regular intervals, a bacth job changes the logical to B point to another partner's image. No need for javascript involved.  M > The 2nd is a call out for cswb to tell folks to upgrade if they have an old:L > one Again. IF you have js turned off or aren't using an old CSWB you don't > see anything.S  B shouldn't be more than a couple lines of javascript. Not a "hunk".  , > The 3rd is 2 hunks for tracking services..  H With all the fancy tracking statictics, do you guys have any idea of theM percentage of hits you are NOT counting because so many have JS turned off oru
 unavailable ?o  N Since Apache is open sourced, ever considered simply adding code to the serverL to record relevant statistics ? no need for JS there and one modification atR the server level removes need to modify thousands , if no billions, of html files.  K > I've tried to make sure that there isn't any javascript required pages ontK > the site. There shouldn't be anything you can't do with javascript turneds > off.  7 Correct. I can get to freeware, faq and ask the wizard.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:20:54 GMT,# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!I Message-ID: <aEEp9.226381$8b1.34053@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message)( news:3DA6D032.682CCAA2@mindspring.com... > See: > . >   http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-961495.html >r6 > Now, sometimes I'm a sucker so I'm more than willing: > to believe it's not true (heck, I stayed with DEC *LONG*9 > after I knew it was dead) but here it is, yet again, in " > print (or at least "in pixels"). >a< > Do you think the people who sign the capital purchase reqs > read ZDNet or C.O.V?    G I was just filling in my subscription renewal for Information Week, andbD there's a section amongst the form that asks "Which of the followingB operating systems are in use or planned for use at this location?"  J Guess which of your favorite o/s products isn't listed? However there is aA checkbox for "Other" but there is no write-in space to enter VMS.t  K Interestingly enough, Sun OS / Solaris has its own checkbox while all other @ unix variants are listed collectively under the category 'Unix'.  B Information Week purports to be targetted at CIO/CTO and senior IT management types.M   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2002 14:08:09 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) , Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!3 Message-ID: <$wexRwqil497@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3DA71B28.FCB9561B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:0 >>         But he didn't say that, he says this:I >> "Chivano." HP still sells Alpha servers but plans to phase them out bye >> 2004. >> aP >>         So once again JF... you like Michael are guilty of twisting the facts >>         (and/or statements).aG >>         In your case, to support your incessant conspiracy theories.t > M > Wait a minute. you may enjoy blasting me at every occasion. But do you deny-C > that the article clearly states that Alpha will be dead by 2004 ?J >   @ 	No, because it doesn't say "Alpha will be dead by 2004" it says: 	"HP still sells Alpha servers but plans to phase them out
 	by 2004".  A 	A propoganda battle.  Politicians engage in it all the time.  ByoF 	substituting your phrase that is less appealing, makes your politicalE 	opponent seem to be saying something he isn't or implying something  
 	they aren't.t  A 	No where in that article does it say that "Alpha will be dead byw> 	2004."  Maybe you meant to say he should actually be saying: E 	"Because of the murder of Alpha, Alpha will be dead in 2004?" (HA)  sG 	Isn't that better from your perspective?  It isn't there though is it?t     			     Spin on JF   				Robr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:40:47 -0400.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>., Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!, Message-ID: <3DA71B28.FCB9561B@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:/ >         But he didn't say that, he says this:rH > "Chivano." HP still sells Alpha servers but plans to phase them out by > 2004.g > O >         So once again JF... you like Michael are guilty of twisting the factso >         (and/or statements).F >         In your case, to support your incessant conspiracy theories.  K Wait a minute. you may enjoy blasting me at every occasion. But do you denyhA that the article clearly states that Alpha will be dead by 2004 ?o  M In my post, I clearly stated that those who follow Compaq would know that thetM "plan of record" does set expectations of Alpha based systems being availablenJ beyond that, even though the chip may stop progressing beyond EV79. So youF have to reason to blast ME on this. You should blast the writer of the article.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:32:54 -04002* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!6 Message-ID: <Y7OcndAf8pnr3jqgXTWcpw@News.GigaNews.Com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:GzitrE5FNaya@eisner.encompasserve.org...l7 > In article <3DA70691.AB102F43@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeis& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >M > >eK > > But when the writer says that Alpha will be dead in 2004, I don't think, it > > is wrong to say this.v >a >C' > But he didn't say that, he says this:  >vE > A deal between Compaq and Intel in June 2001 led to a further braineJ > transfer. Engineers acquired from Compaq in that deal are now working onB > compilers for Itanium and future versions of the chip, includingH > "Chivano." HP still sells Alpha servers but plans to phase them out by > 2004.   J Indeed.  And that's a far more negative statement than JF's, since he madeH it clear that his interpretation of his own 'Alpha will be dead by 2004'I statement (where I suspect he was referring to Atlant's paraphrase of howoG most people will likely interpret the article's statement) was that allAJ development (life in the *architecture*) would cease by then, though salesI of the corpse would continue (if one can trust cHumPaq) for quite a while H thereafter (in other words, exactly what cHumPaq has been saying for theE past 16 months, but something the article implies won't be the case).f   >iG > So once again JF... you like Michael are guilty of twisting the facts   I I presume that's Curly you're referring to :)  But regardless, once again K you're just not bothering to understand what you've read before responding:pE JF's comment was actually supportive of the public cHumPaq line, justD critical of its consequences.-   - bill   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.563 ************************' Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAXi3 Message-ID: <AZdGdVXkH07i@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <01C27101.70164990@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:"  G > They are (or t@츪    A츪    B츪    C츪    D츪    E츪    F츪    G츪    H츪    I츪    J츪    K츪    L츪    M츪    N츪    O츪    P츪    Q츪    R츪    S츪    T츪    U츪    V츪    W츪    X츪    Y츪    Z츪    [츪    \츪    ]츪    ^츪    _츪    `츪    a츪    b츪    c츪    d츪    e츪    f츪    g츪    h츪    i츪    j츪    k츪    l츪    m츪    n츪    o츪    p츪    q츪    r츪    s츪    t츪    u츪    v츪    w츪    x츪    y츪    z츪    {츪    |츪    }츪    ~츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪    츪                                         	    
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