1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 13 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 566       Contents:% Re: Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ? % Re: Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ? D Anyone know where the presentations from HP ETS 2002 will be posted? Re: Hobbyist kit Contents  Re: Hobbyist kit Contents / Re: How hard is this for HP to do?  Clustering? ' Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read * Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and TCPware 5.6 question Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: Proprietary or Open Source Re: Proprietary or Open Source& Re: VAXELN License for SIMH simulators( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2002 02:00:31 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) . Subject: Re: Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ?= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0210130100.2b903287@posting.google.com>   ^ Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote in message news:<ao5vbt$t93$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>...G > Does anyone know, if it is possible to get Adaptec 39160 SCSI-card to F > work with OpenVMS in EV5 Alpha? I know that KZPEA which has AIC-7899E > chip like 39160 is supported on some EV6-models, but I've also seen   E Good question. I'm still on 7.2-1 source code, so don't even have the C source for the PKADRIVER in question as the support appeared in the E VMS721_FIBRE_SCSI-V0200 kit. I don't know what the code looks like. I I will put in a purchase for the future 7.4 source listings, but not 7.3-1, J as I have to justify the purchase to management at work. "Way out of date" works, but "hobby" does not.  F In addition, I had a "run around" with Adaptec for data sheets. In theF end I got *NOTHING* - I was passed around like a hot potato. You might want to check out:    E http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/markeditorial.html (wrapped)  ?sess=no&prodkey=linux_ospolicy   E Hmmm, does not look like that page has changed since last time I took  a look over a year ago.   E This was all in an effort to get together some sort of bootloader for J OpenVMS as *MY* PC164 SRM knows nothing of this controller and never will.  D I don't have a 39160 card on hand, however it was mentioned it was aE stripped Window(tm) edition. Again can't confirm - no comment or data 4 from Adaptec at the time, so I cannot comment on it.  E Widgets that work with Tru64 are a different story than may work with H OpenVMS - there is only a similar pattern, since obviously, and rightly,G the goal here is to support vendor specific (DEC/Compaq/HP) products on D both platforms. OpenVMS and Tru64 device driver code share little in" common so there will be huge gaps.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:21:30 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>. Subject: Re: Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ?& Message-ID: <3DA93B1A.7040806@home.nl>  & --------------0103020701080107080809039 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit        Patrick Young wrote:  _ >Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote in message news:<ao5vbt$t93$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>...  >    > G >>Does anyone know, if it is possible to get Adaptec 39160 SCSI-card to F >>work with OpenVMS in EV5 Alpha? I know that KZPEA which has AIC-7899E >>chip like 39160 is supported on some EV6-models, but I've also seen  >>     >> > F >Good question. I'm still on 7.2-1 source code, so don't even have theD >source for the PKADRIVER in question as the support appeared in theF >VMS721_FIBRE_SCSI-V0200 kit. I don't know what the code looks like. IJ >will put in a purchase for the future 7.4 source listings, but not 7.3-1,K >as I have to justify the purchase to management at work. "Way out of date"  >works, but "hobby" does not.  > F I don't think there will be a 7.4 version. There will be a 7.3-2 late 2 next year, and from there it will be 8.x versions.   > G >In addition, I had a "run around" with Adaptec for data sheets. In the G >end I got *NOTHING* - I was passed around like a hot potato. You might  >want to check out:  > F >http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/markeditorial.html (wrapped)  >?sess=no&prodkey=linux_ospolicy > F >Hmmm, does not look like that page has changed since last time I took >a look over a year ago. > F >This was all in an effort to get together some sort of bootloader forK >OpenVMS as *MY* PC164 SRM knows nothing of this controller and never will.  > E >I don't have a 39160 card on hand, however it was mentioned it was a F >stripped Window(tm) edition. Again can't confirm - no comment or data5 >from Adaptec at the time, so I cannot comment on it.  > F >Widgets that work with Tru64 are a different story than may work withI >OpenVMS - there is only a similar pattern, since obviously, and rightly, H >the goal here is to support vendor specific (DEC/Compaq/HP) products onE >both platforms. OpenVMS and Tru64 device driver code share little in # >common so there will be huge gaps.  >    >     & --------------010302070108010708080903) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>   <title></title>  </head>  <body> <br> <br> Patrick Young wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" ;  cite="mid55f85d77.0210130100.2b903287@posting.google.com">   <pre wrap="">Osmo Kujala <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi">&lt;kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi&gt;</a> wrote in message news:<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ao5vbt$t93$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi">&lt;ao5vbt$t93$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi&gt;</a>...    </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">V     <pre wrap="">Does anyone know, if it is possible to get Adaptec 39160 SCSI-card toD work with OpenVMS in EV5 Alpha? I know that KZPEA which has AIC-7899C chip like 39160 is supported on some EV6-models, but I've also seen 
     </pre>   </blockquote>    <pre wrap=""><!---->E Good question. I'm still on 7.2-1 source code, so don't even have the C source for the PKADRIVER in question as the support appeared in the E VMS721_FIBRE_SCSI-V0200 kit. I don't know what the code looks like. I I will put in a purchase for the future 7.4 source listings, but not 7.3-1, J as I have to justify the purchase to management at work. "Way out of date"" works, but "hobby" does not.</pre>
 </blockquote> J I don't think there will be a 7.4 version. There will be a 7.3-2 late next1 year, and from there it will be 8.x versions.<br>  <br> <blockquote type="cite" ;  cite="mid55f85d77.0210130100.2b903287@posting.google.com">    <pre wrap="">   F In addition, I had a "run around" with Adaptec for data sheets. In theF end I got *NOTHING* - I was passed around like a hot potato. You might want to check out:     <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/markeditorial.html">http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/markeditorial.html</a> (wrapped) # ?sess=no&amp;prodkey=linux_ospolicy   E Hmmm, does not look like that page has changed since last time I took  a look over a year ago.   E This was all in an effort to get together some sort of bootloader for J OpenVMS as *MY* PC164 SRM knows nothing of this controller and never will.  D I don't have a 39160 card on hand, however it was mentioned it was aE stripped Window(tm) edition. Again can't confirm - no comment or data 4 from Adaptec at the time, so I cannot comment on it.  E Widgets that work with Tru64 are a different story than may work with H OpenVMS - there is only a similar pattern, since obviously, and rightly,G the goal here is to support vendor specific (DEC/Compaq/HP) products on D both platforms. OpenVMS and Tru64 device driver code share little in" common so there will be huge gaps.   </pre>
 </blockquote>  <br> </body>  </html>   ( --------------010302070108010708080903--   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:12:55 -0700 " From: Koloth <koloth@telocity.com>M Subject: Anyone know where the presentations from HP ETS 2002 will be posted? + Message-ID: <3DA91CF7.2050802@telocity.com>   G Does anyone know when and where the presentations from the HP ETS 2002   will be available.   Thanks   Cass Witkowski   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Oct 02 11:40:54 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) " Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents) Message-ID: <xxlX4TFeySM+@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <3DA788A9.96787311@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Simon Clubley wrote: >>  ^ >> In article <3DA3986D.D2D21442@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >> > Stuart Johnson wrote: >> >> P >> >> Does anyone have any information on what is going to be in the forthcomingM >> >> hobbyist kits from Montgar? I am hoping that it will contail the entire I >> >> layered products disks, ie. be the full OS distribution and layered % >> >> products. I can dream, can't I?  >> >L >> > Well, if you can dream up a way to cram a couple gigabytes of data ontoF >> > a 650MB CD-ROM, yes, I guess you can dream. Otherwise, a multi-CDJ >> > distribution would be called for and that would likely push the priceK >> > into territory that would make it prohibitive to the very audience the + >> > hobbyist program is intended to reach.  >> > >>   >> Use ZIP compression.  > L Out of interest, I had a coupled of stabs yesterday at zipping the June 2000A layered products CD 2 (the one with several compilers on it), but = couldn't get the syntax right. Shopping then took precedence.   H I was trying to do the whole CD, but perhaps I should have tried product by product. Suggestions please.    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2002 10:27:36 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents3 Message-ID: <zWaRjiEPqNau@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3DA788A9.96787311@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:   # <snip prior compression discussion>   F > Well, I can say from experience that trying to cook up automation toE > package the layered products into LD containers is no small task. I D > worked about a week on some DCL code about a year ago, but haven'tG > touched it since. I tried using the CD_CONTENTS.DAT file to drive the E > procedure, but cross-referencing that to the LMF product ID.'s is a H > purely manual task. Yeah, ya only gotta do it once at the outset, thenH > maintain it as new products get added to OVMS-HOBBY. Still, it has not0 > been a simple task for my little peanut-brain.  F I have never used a hobbyist CD, but I find the compression on the VMSE Freeware CDROMs to be a real pain in the neck.  Things would be a bit = different if Backup and PCSI uncompressed that automatically.    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Oct 02 12:10:49 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 8 Subject: Re: How hard is this for HP to do?  Clustering?) Message-ID: <t5QVh7+Rg72f@elias.decus.ch>   Y In article <A8_p9.15154$rz6.2246@sccrnsc02>, "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes: ! > Still question that statement:P  > A > Not to beat this subject dead again, but VMS gets as popular as D > linux/BSD/windows it might get more people a cracking than noraml. > I > Hummm.  I didn't know VMS did clustering.  Does it work in the hobbiest 
 > package?  < VMS _invented_ clustering, back in the mid 1980s. Unlike theC M$ model, it's a shared everything model (well, nearly everything).   > Yes, clustering does work with the Hobbyist licenses. For more* information on VMS clustering please visit  K http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/6318/6318PRO.HTML (HTML format)    or    Y http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/OVMS_731_CLUSTER_CONFIG.PDF    for the same in .PDF format.   --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Oct 2002 14:28:37 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> 0 Subject: Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read* Message-ID: <aobvul$gjg$1@news1.radix.net>  0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > Mike Rechtman wrote: >>  E >> Definitely possible. BASIC has a built-in function that does this.   I > Yes, I've used INKEY$ in the past. I've just never been inclinded to go & > down to the $QIO(W) level behind it.  P I pointed him to a couple of places where I've used sys$qiow for similar effect.   --  = Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>  http://dickey.his.com  ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 08:28:34 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and TCPware 5.6 question 4 Message-ID: <S8aq9.94450$M52.1303032@news.chello.at>  f In article <TNOp9.32225$da7.868894@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >[snip] B >> >No need to respond to this note. I've discovered the solution. >> >> And the answer is ? >>L >> I've now a timezone and NTP config working, but I still wonder if it will= >> switch timezones at the right time correctly. We'll see...  >> >[snip]  > I >Since OpenVMS will be switching the time, you don't want the OpenVMS and I >TCPware to conflict with each other so it's best if you prevent NTP from  >making big time changes.   J I did see OpenVMS Alpha (without DECdts) switch time (via AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV)J but I've yet to see OpenVMS VAX (without DECdts) switch time successfully,, so what can TCPware do on OpenVMS VAX then ?   >Type: $cnfnet NTP > H >when you get to the question of WAYTOOBIG, change it from 4000 to 3000.L >Since there are 3600 seconds in an hour, if the stack notices that its timeM >source has jumped by one hour, it will not attempt to change the local clock  >(deferring to the OS).   D Ok. But I hope, TCPware will switch "TCPWARE_TIMEZONE_NAME" and alsoF "TCPWARE_TIMEZONE" then automatically at the correct time. TCPware hasF "TCPWARE_TIMEZONE_RULES" so it _might_ work, but I've yet to see it...  0 Thanks for responding (and in 2 weeks we'll see)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:41:34 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)  Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS+ Message-ID: <aobt6d$fm0$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   \ In article <3DA7792A.8E41CCA7@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >David Webb wrote:K >> Due to lack of support on VMS for the latest versions that was moving to O >> Peoplesoft on Tru64. However due to other things happening in the University O >> that move has been put off for a while. It'll probably still end up on Tru64  > L >Why would a company choose to migrate from VMS to Tru64 at this juncture in >time ?  > L >Seems rather a waste to make the effort to port to another architecture you2 >know will need another port in a couple of years. > K >has PeopleSoft made any credible commitments to continue to make their new 5 >releases available on Tru64 for any length of time ?   N We've moved systems from VMS to Tru64 since the HP takeover - though they wereL already in the pipeline. However we got some good deals on Alpha systems andK it's seen as a stopgap for three years or so. After that it'll hopefully be K easier to see where to go next. I think senior management are expecting the N next move to be either to a Microsoft OS or more probably Linux - if either ofN those were really up to the job I'm sure thats where we would be heading now.   O They are more concerned with the Applications and the Oracle database than with L the underlying OS. Moving to Tru64 means they can move to the latest versionN and get things webbased. After that it doesn't really matter for three years -> after all the VMS admin systems have been frozen at VMS 6.2 !!N OK they would probably not be that happy if Oracle, peoplesoft and Banner wereK to drop TRU64 for their next versions immediately they had ported but it's  & been factored in as a reasonable risk.   O I'd much much rather have stuck with VMS but the application support just isn't N there - they couldn't get both the application and database layers on the sameJ architecture and didn't want to end up with people having to know two OSs.N (The irony is that they'll probably end up with having to train people on lots) of different Unixes in a few years time).   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 14:56:18 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMSJ Message-ID: <mQfq9.199443$q41.121204@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DA7AA8B.FA230AF5@videotron.ca... > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > > I'm too much of a bigot, though. To me, anyone who *HAS* to be told toL > > port to VMS will never understand the reason why; so, no point in trying > > to explain.  > : > Your comment only applies to a healthy operating system. > K > Digital was going around telling ISVs to stop bothering with VMS, so some  pushI > from VMS's owner would be needed to turn the tide around. If Digital-HP  can J > convince a few key ISVs to go back to VMS and if HP can start to mention "VMS" J > in its public speeches to send a strong message that HP's top management view; > VMS as a core product, then other ISVs may return to VMS.      If, if, if.   I HP seems to have no interest in getting new apps on VMS or even giving it K the 'good old college try' to keep those apps that are still available from J ISV's on VMS, much less trying to turn around SAP, PeopleSoft, Sybase, and0 other 'big ticket' ISV's who have abandoned VMS.  K If SAP, PeopleSoft, Sybase, et al. thought HP was serious about VMS, they'd L all be making announcements about the availability and support of their apps on VMS. But they aren't.  J If HP wants to sell VMS to big customers, then these are the sorts of apps+ that have to be available. But they aren't.   K If HP want to attract *new* customers to VMS, people need more choices than = dealing with just Oracle. But they don't - in either context.   L All of these 'big ticket' apps are the things that drive the installation ofD big iron and clusters - exactly the kinds of sales and installs thatJ generate the big bucks for HP. But since they aren't try to get these 'bigF ticket' apps back on VMS, it speaks volumes in my mind about HP's true intentions.   J The faster VMS dies, the faster it goes into FTC mandated maintenence modeK for 5 years. Don't say that it doesn't make sense for HP to do that or that K they won't. Nothing about what has happened with VMS business-wise from its H varied owners over the past 10-12 years has made sense. The economics ofG their decisions have mostly not made any sense whatsoever and have only K destroyed shareholder value. Many of the same people are still in charge or % influencing those that are in charge.   K Harvard Business School ought to do a case study in mis-management on this.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2002 00:59:44 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) ' Subject: Re: Proprietary or Open Source = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0210122359.1d3694e9@posting.google.com>   L Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote in message news:<eZko9.2167$G5.1003@fe01>...? > So, since Linux has had one virus written for it, for which a > > patch existed before the virus did, we should now switch allA > Linux boxes to the much safer MicroSoft Windows(tm), which only   > "MicroSoft Window(tm)". The "s" implies *FAR* too much. As theB Charon VAX folk will confirm with their product running under it -( one application/(Window) at a time only!   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Oct 02 12:39:59 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: Proprietary or Open Source ) Message-ID: <rG7aKlIJgih4@elias.decus.ch>   i In article <55f85d77.0210122359.1d3694e9@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes: N > Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote in message news:<eZko9.2167$G5.1003@fe01>...@ >> So, since Linux has had one virus written for it, for which a? >> patch existed before the virus did, we should now switch all B >> Linux boxes to the much safer MicroSoft Windows(tm), which only > @ > "MicroSoft Window(tm)". The "s" implies *FAR* too much. As theD > Charon VAX folk will confirm with their product running under it -* > one application/(Window) at a time only!  C On the subject of NT, this is a handy url, entitled "How to keep a   Windows NT server stable.   8 "1. Don't use an NT server for file and print services." etc...  ( http://www.taronga.com/~peter/io/nt.html  D Oh cool, the above quote I just dragged and dropped from the browserC into this message. I am finally starting to appreciate this Mac :-)    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:02:29 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>/ Subject: Re: VAXELN License for SIMH simulators 5 Message-ID: <aobudt$fue34$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   > "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@julian5locals.com> schreef in bericht@ news:s_1q9.26774$OB5.2320364@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...1 >         The Computer History Simulation Project ( >         http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ > 4 > has a VAX emulator and various OSes. What would it4 > take to get a VAXELN Toolkit and Run-time licences > for use with the simulator?  >  > -- > C.W.Holeman II > cwhii@JulianLocals.com > http://also.as/cwhii  G IIRC VAXeln was around before LMF and PAK's. Your only problem might be H support for the VAX 3900 that is implemented in simh. Try it and tell us
 what happens. K Even if you do not have a license (which you obviously cannot have for this 6 experiment) I doubt that HP will bother to sue you....   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2002 10:35:06 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed 3 Message-ID: <V3bFDyYHDQ24@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3DA7FF94.1060407@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:  D > 2)  Do we need JavaScript in the real world ? Yes - unfortunatetly >      many sites require it.   D But I don't need them.  A good example would be Compaq, who required@ JavaScript but then got bought out by a company with more sense.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.566 ************************