1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 14 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 568       Contents:C Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT)  Re: Advanced server 7.3 + Re: Are there TK50 images for VMS avalable?  Re: Digital to Intel Re: Digital to Intel Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters RE: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: File convert ?% Re: Grant an identifier to an image ?  Re: Hobbyist kit Contents  Re: Hobbyist kit Contents / Re: How hard is this for HP to do?  Clustering?  Limiting usage of resources  Re: Limiting usage of resources ' RE: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read ' RE: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read ' RE: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read  RE: New to VMS Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic* Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters* Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters Re: powerterm and XP Re: powerterm and XP RE: powerterm and XP Re: powerterm and XP. Re: Problems with Printer-Queues on VMS V7.3-1. Re: Problems with Printer-Queues on VMS V7.3-1 Re: singular and plural of VAX Re: singular and plural of VAX Re: Technical Question Re: Technical Question# Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. ' RE: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. ' Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. ' RE: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. * Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. RE: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels Re: USB, VMS and PWS8 VMS 7.3 tp_server (decdtm) startup and sys$node_fullname VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption  Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption  Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption  Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption  RE: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption  Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption 3 VMS MAIL: COMPRESS _increases_ the size of the file  Re: Volume Shadowing question # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! C [OT] The Mill clock tower, was: Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:31:10 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy L Subject: Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT). Message-ID: <3DAAAAFE.9070203@nospamn.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >=20 >> Atlant Schmidt wrote: >>0 >>> At my work site, we were in exactly the same1 >>> situation last summer; our limitation was the - >>> point at which the Boston Edison (NStar?) - >>> Transformer vaults that feed our building  >>> would burst into flame.  >>> + >>> We were not allowed to power-up any new 4 >>> testers without first talking to the guy looking >>> at the building ammeter(s).  >> >=20 >=202 >> Its nice to know that Bob also doesn't know the& >> difference between Volts and Watts. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Who is Bob ? >=20   Bob Ceculski !!!!     5 Name familiar ? he is 4 posts before this one in this 1 thread or hadn't you been following that closely.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:26:29 +0200 , From: "Rainer Giese" <waste.not@welcome.net>  Subject: Re: Advanced server 7.35 Message-ID: <aodo2h$j7mub$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>   = "Toine Dirven" <tdirven@volvocars.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag - news:ao8jbj$i3e9@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com... 9 > > MOD USER TDIRVEN/PASSWORD=ABCDEFGH/FLAGS=NOPWDEXPIRED   K Like Mike said, this will clear an existing initial expiration. The correct  syntax is :   0   $ ADMIN MODIFY username /FLAG=DISPWDEXPIRATION  0 which overrides the domain wide password policy.  3 "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag / news:ao8u8p$kfgh5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de... - > $ mc authorize mod <usercode>/pwdlifetime=0   ( Toine did not ask for modifying VMS-UAF.   Rainer Giese   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:27:20 +0100 ( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com>4 Subject: Re: Are there TK50 images for VMS avalable?* Message-ID: <3DAA8DF8.8020802@bigfoot.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   M >So you boot from first TK50 into standalone backup, then do the BACKUP/IMAGE  >mua0:vaxvms072.B/save dua0: >  >    >  But be warned, it takes AGES to boot. Many's the time I've been sat wondering whether some system was going to boot or not, with the only reassurance being the whirring & cluncking of some ancient TK50 drive.      , Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:26:53 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Digital to Intel ) Message-ID: <3DAA7FCD.9F5C2E53@127.0.0.1>    Neil Rieck wrote:  > J > You've got to read this. It looks like Digital is the Kevin Bacon of the > computer world.  > , > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-961495.html  H Reading the following discussions show some quite evident perceptions on> Digital and VMS, as well as the Alpha chip. More arguments for
 marketing.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:37:30 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Digital to Intel I Message-ID: <KEAq9.244302$8b1.76212@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3DAA7FCD.9F5C2E53@127.0.0.1...  > Neil Rieck wrote:  > > L > > You've got to read this. It looks like Digital is the Kevin Bacon of the > > computer world.  > > . > > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-961495.html > J > Reading the following discussions show some quite evident perceptions on@ > Digital and VMS, as well as the Alpha chip. More arguments for > marketing.    @ If you think that you have a particularly valuable patent that aJ competitor/licencee will use in a visible way, maybe your patent licencingL agreements should also include a requirement to display a 'tag line', perhapJ along the lines of - "This technology NIH. This advancement brought to youK by the people of DIGITAL Equipment Corp." in any advertisement. HP wouldn't  get it though.   NIH - not invented here    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:34:36 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters ) Message-ID: <3DAA8FAC.E8AC000F@127.0.0.1>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Bill,  > I > >>> (too bad cHumPaq doesn't seem inclined to beat the drum itself):<<<  > D > While one has to be careful in view of the sensitivities involved,J > OpenVMS does have a 9/11 related DR/DT testimonial now on the web site - > in HP format as well.  >  > Reference:M > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/commerzbank.pdf   H Which is rather like being filed in a locked filing cabinet in a disusedG lavatory (with the obligatory "Beware of the leopard" sign) in a cellar  with no lights or stairs.   E I hope that "being sensitive" isn't an excuse for "we don't advertise  anyway".   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:21:33 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> ' Subject: RE: Disaster-Tolerant clusters T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9751@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Nick,   E Fwiw, these pdf files get included with RFP proposals, demo's, shows, F pointers for both existing and new Customers and ISV's etc, so perhapsE you could expand on why you think these online testimonials are not a  good thing?   F (I certainly like the online approach much better than being forced to8 order hard copy materials from some central location...)   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom   (remove the DOT's)     -----Original Message-----2 From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@127.0.0.1]=20 Sent: October 14, 2002 5:35 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters      "Main, Kerry" wrote: >=20 > Bill,  >=20@ > >>> (too bad cHumPaq doesn't seem inclined to beat the drum=20 > >>> itself):<<<  >=20G > While one has to be careful in view of the sensitivities involved,=20 H > OpenVMS does have a 9/11 related DR/DT testimonial now on the web site   > - in HP format as well.  >=20 > Reference:=20 H > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/commerzban > k.pdf   H Which is rather like being filed in a locked filing cabinet in a disusedG lavatory (with the obligatory "Beware of the leopard" sign) in a cellar  with no lights or stairs.   E I hope that "being sensitive" isn't an excuse for "we don't advertise  anyway".   --=20 F Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:45:26 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters G Message-ID: <q7yq9.29191$vX.23593@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9751@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. Nick,   ? >Fwiw, these pdf files get included with RFP proposals, demo's, 9 >shows, pointers for both existing and new Customers ....       Which *new* customers are these?  H HP doesn't go actively searching for and promoting VMS to new customers.  E The new customers you seem to get are the ones who fall into your lap E because OM Group and others sells their applications. The rest of the 8 business is server consolidation for existing customers.  F These seems to be precious little of HP actively marketing, promoting,I selling, and winning business where HP goes to pitch Alpha & VMS to never  before VMS customers.     
 <cynicism>L There are probably more used Alphas sold on eBay each day than HP sells new. <cynicism off>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:04:36 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters ) Message-ID: <3DAADD04.B9A1409F@127.0.0.1>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Nick,  > G > Fwiw, these pdf files get included with RFP proposals, demo's, shows, H > pointers for both existing and new Customers and ISV's etc, so perhapsG > you could expand on why you think these online testimonials are not a 
 > good thing?  > H > (I certainly like the online approach much better than being forced to: > order hard copy materials from some central location...)  A I believe it is a good thing, but to continue the theme, how many G people, casually, on the off chance, happen to drop by where they *may*  run into the information.   H Other companies tend to be 'in yer face' with their lesser achievements,H OpenVMS has a lot to shout about but the silence is deafening. Where are? the popup ads on websites, the trailers in subscription emails?   : Effectively these testimonials should be "in addition to".  % e.g. ad line in a subscription email:   C See how HP Disaster Tolerant clusters can help when the unthinkable  happens < http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/   12 words and a link.  D If I have to go looking starting from OpenVMS home, it's tucked awayH down on the right among a load of other success stories, that could readB like anything on any other platform. Flagship stories shouldn't be hidden, that's my point.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:58:05 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters G Message-ID: <xbzq9.29315$vX.17419@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3DAADD04.B9A1409F@127.0.0.1...  > J > Other companies tend to be 'in yer face' with their lesser achievements,J > OpenVMS has a lot to shout about but the silence is deafening. Where areA > the popup ads on websites, the trailers in subscription emails?   I There's no money in the HP budgets to do any effective marketing. There's & only money for ineffectual things. :-(      < > Effectively these testimonials should be "in addition to". > ' > e.g. ad line in a subscription email:  > E > See how HP Disaster Tolerant clusters can help when the unthinkable 	 > happens > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/ >  > 12 words and a link.    L Great idea. Change the line to read, " 9/11 -   See how HP Disaster TolerantL clusters continue to work when the unthinkable happens".  A minor change butK it almost assures that people will click on it - after all, HP didn't cause J the event, so nobody should get worked up about stating something factual.  J Add another link to the existing Commerzbank page to an exhaustive list ofH supported VMS applications, ranging from complete vendor packages to webC servers, databases, programming and managment tools, etc....so that H interested parties don't have to figure out where else to look for these things.   K Every WSJ, NY Times, FT, Economist, eWeek, iWeek, etc...subscriber could be 8 hit with this message - reaches execs and technologists.  3 So easy to do. So targetted. So unlikely to happen.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 07:49:27 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: File convert ? 3 Message-ID: <oOQznYL8DKBQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3DA719FC.B7FD91C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: M >> If you're using the ANSI translator embedded into the CPS style symbionts, H >> this should work just fine.  The symbiont knows where the page breaksH >> occdur in the ANSI data.  And you can specify Postscript format setup+ >> modules within an ANSI format print job.  >  > How do you do that ?   > @ > I have DCPS_LIB defined as "DCPS$DEVCTL" "SYSDEVCTL/DATA=ANSI" > J > Does this mean that if I print a text file to a queue defined as an ANSIL > queue, I could specify a module that is stored in DCPS$DEVCTL and it wouldN > know it is postscript, whereas if I specify a module stored in SYSDEVCTL, itD > knows that its format is ANSI and would convert it to postscript ?   Yes.  B If you are like me, you would probably want to keep your hands off) of DCPS$DEVCTL and include something like 8 "MY_SITE_POSTSCRIPT_DEVCTL/DATA=POSTSCRIPT" in DCPS_LIB.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 08:32:56 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: Re: Grant an identifier to an image ?3 Message-ID: <iz2KmOiPsKMs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3DA7405E.3FC75EB3@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: A >> If you can't trust the data on the drive you are mounting, you @ >> can't trust a bit that says "this volume is safe for use with> >> /subsystem".  So you can't keep meaningful context on disk. > P > If a drive was allowed to be mounted private by an unprivileged user trying toO > do stuff that isn't kosher, then the drive shouldn't be trusted to begin with  > and not mounted /SYSTEM.  B Personally, I operate on the assumption that a cracker who manages> to gain access to a volume and places forged subsystem ACEs on? some executables buried therein is going to try not to alert me < to the fact that he's been doing something "not kosher" when: he comes in and asks for the volume to be mounted /SYSTEM.  D If I am persuaded and issue a MOUNT /SYSTEM command for that volume,C VMS can, will and should mount it system-wide.  You ask for it, you C get it.  It will not and should not mount it with subsystem support 1 enabled.  You don't ask for it, you don't get it.   E The question at hand is whether, when I issue a MOUNT /SYSTEM command D for a drive, should VMS mount it system-wide with /SUBSYSTEM support
 turned on.  D J F Mezei argues that VMS should attempt to determine how the volumeA was most recently mounted and should turn on /SUBSYSTEM if it was  mounted /SYSTEM previously.   5 I argue VMS doesn't do any such tracking and that the ? notion of doing so with a bit _on the drive_ would be amazingly  foolish.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 07:14:13 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)" Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents3 Message-ID: <VtwugSyVZOE+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3DA788A9.96787311@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Simon Clubley wrote: >>   >> Use ZIP compression.  > B > I'd thought about that. Trouble is, .PCSIs are already partiallyD > compressed - they are DCX-ed, which is none too efficient, but theD > resulting file doesn't squeeze down as much as some savesets will. >   G I just double checked one of the VMS V7.3 CDs and the .PCSI kits on the G CD-ROM are uncompressed. It's only the downloadable .PCSI kits that are  DCX compressed.    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:51:55 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit ContentsJ Message-ID: <fSAq9.244389$8b1.216308@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DA3986D.D2D21442@fsi.net...  > Stuart Johnson wrote:  > > B > > Does anyone have any information on what is going to be in the forthcoming K > > hobbyist kits from Montgar? I am hoping that it will contail the entire G > > layered products disks, ie. be the full OS distribution and layered # > > products. I can dream, can't I?  > I > Well, if you can dream up a way to cram a couple gigabytes of data onto C > a 650MB CD-ROM, yes, I guess you can dream. Otherwise, a multi-CD G > distribution would be called for and that would likely push the price H > into territory that would make it prohibitive to the very audience the( > hobbyist program is intended to reach. > J > If it were up to me, I'd cook up a boot CD that had bare-bone VMS plus aE > TCP/IP stack plus a PPP client plus (T)FTP and make it possible for H > hobbyists with sufficient internet bandwidth available to acquire PAKs3 > and install VMS and layered products via the web.     H What's wrong with Montgar placing images on a DVD that costs $5 to make.I Organize it like  many other DVD distributions are when you are given the L choice of receiving the software on one DVD or a mountain of CD's.  On theseA DVD's,  CD1, CD2, etc...are burned as complete images in separate L directories. When you receive it you can copy the CD images onto single CD's0 at your leisure, and then install from the CD's.  H You may need a PC with a DVD drive and a CD burner, but just about everyG 12-year old has one of these by now. If you don't have one, borrow your  nephew's for a couple hours.  J Sun does this for some software kits I receive - one DVD vs. about 8 CD's.G Sun charges a lot less for the DVD distribution than it does for the CD  variety.  J Cinram and other CD/DVD production houses can press up DVD's in small lotsD ( <1000 pieces ) for very competitive prices vs. having to burn them	 yourself.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:33:46 +0100 ( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com>8 Subject: Re: How hard is this for HP to do?  Clustering?* Message-ID: <3DAA8F7A.2080306@bigfoot.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:   >WarlockD wrote: >    >  >>[snip], >>Hummm.  I didn't know VMS did clustering.  >>     >> > G >VMS did "clustering" even before the folks at VMS Engineering invented D >clustering as we know it! You could share files between nodes usingH >DECnet and FAL, but of course performance was abysmal. It was possible,H >and in some of those early cases - such as my first VMS site - that was >enough! >    > D In my first job, VMS 3.2 IIRC we achieved some of the facilities of E clustering by having dual proted RM05 disks, and a serial connection  I between 2 systems over a DZ11 terminal line. There was a bit of freeware  E (VAXnet I think) that ran and allowed inter system communication (we   didn't have Ethernet).  H And we used to sleep in a shoebox in the middle of the road, and get up 8 4 hours before we went to bed to lick the road clean....    8 You tell youngsters today and they don't believe you ;-)   >    >      --  , Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 10:35:29 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> $ Subject: Limiting usage of resources6 Message-ID: <20021014103529.29253.qmail@gacracker.org>  F Running the VMSbox accounts service seems to be attracting a number ofF people who are not using the service as I had hoped. I get a number ofJ people who simply want to use the system to bypass restrictions imposed byK other providers (either their own, or that of the service they access). The A most common cases here are use of telnet to access MUDs, and IRC.   H Now, I don't mind people making occasional use of these services, but ifI that is all they want to use the system for I'd like to encourage them to J look elsewhere for what they need, and keep resources available for people. interested in using the programming tools etc.  J Initially I'd want to try and gather statistics on what percentage of timeE logged on is spent using these resources, and then look into applying J limits to that. For example, I could decide that user X was only permittedF to use telnet for 10 hours per week. If so, I'd want a way for them toI check how much of their allowance they had used as well as blocking their  access when it was used up.   K Where would people suggest I start looking for information on this, or does K anyone have any experience of this sort of setup that they'd like to share? I I suspect this would be an aspect of accounting, but I don't want to turn I on full accounting without having a good idea of how much disk space that  is likely to eat up.  I Please note, this is a Hobbyist system so commercial solutions are out of 9 the question unless available via the Hobbyist programme.      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 06:52:16 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: Re: Limiting usage of resources3 Message-ID: <wHHDs7Daw74j@eisner.encompasserve.org>   v In article <20021014103529.29253.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:  L > Initially I'd want to try and gather statistics on what percentage of timeG > logged on is spent using these resources, and then look into applying L > limits to that. For example, I could decide that user X was only permittedH > to use telnet for 10 hours per week. If so, I'd want a way for them toK > check how much of their allowance they had used as well as blocking their  > access when it was used up.  > M > Where would people suggest I start looking for information on this, or does M > anyone have any experience of this sort of setup that they'd like to share? K > I suspect this would be an aspect of accounting, but I don't want to turn K > on full accounting without having a good idea of how much disk space that  > is likely to eat up.  E Image Accounting would be what you are looking for, and though it can D eat disk space the portion of the data you actually need is minimal,8 so I would suggest running your reduction program daily.  I When you get to writing the enforcement piece, remember the System Rights  List as a tool.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:01:48 -0700 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>0 Subject: RE: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read0 Message-ID: <01C27354.3C7828B0@sulfer.icius.com>  F It isn't too hard in QIO, from memory all you need is a 1ch buffer andF set it up to return when the buffer is full. You do need a little codeG to cope with keypresses that generate multiple bytes, but that's pretty 	 easy too.    Shane    -----Original Message-----6 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]( Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 6:26 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read     Mike Rechtman wrote: > D > Definitely possible. BASIC has a built-in function that does this.  G Yes, I've used INKEY$ in the past. I've just never been inclinded to go $ down to the $QIO(W) level behind it.   > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > > Bernard Giroud wrote:  > > ? > >>In trying to port ncurses on to VMS, we just hit a problem:  > >>A > >>Is it possible to just set the terminal with a combination of C > >>modes and characteristics so that the posix read in lib_getch.c < > >>will return immediately for 1 key instead of waiting for > >>a terminator?  > >> > > L > > I'm sure what you want is possible using $QIOW, but I don't know if that > > would be suitable. > >  > >  >  > -- > ( > New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:8 > http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmG > --------------------------------------------------------------------- G > Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. A > Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* G > Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337 E >    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------      --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:01:48 -0700 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>0 Subject: RE: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read0 Message-ID: <01C27357.F7263320@sulfer.icius.com>  F It isn't too hard in QIO, from memory all you need is a 1ch buffer andF set it up to return when the buffer is full. You do need a little codeG to cope with keypresses that generate multiple bytes, but that's pretty 	 easy too.    Shane    -----Original Message-----6 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]( Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 6:26 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read     Mike Rechtman wrote: > D > Definitely possible. BASIC has a built-in function that does this.  G Yes, I've used INKEY$ in the past. I've just never been inclinded to go $ down to the $QIO(W) level behind it.   > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > > Bernard Giroud wrote:  > > ? > >>In trying to port ncurses on to VMS, we just hit a problem:  > >>A > >>Is it possible to just set the terminal with a combination of C > >>modes and characteristics so that the posix read in lib_getch.c < > >>will return immediately for 1 key instead of waiting for > >>a terminator?  > >> > > L > > I'm sure what you want is possible using $QIOW, but I don't know if that > > would be suitable. > >  > >  >  > -- > ( > New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:8 > http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmG > --------------------------------------------------------------------- G > Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. A > Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* G > Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337 E >    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------      --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:01:48 -0700 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>0 Subject: RE: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read0 Message-ID: <01C27356.B35D8EF0@sulfer.icius.com>  F It isn't too hard in QIO, from memory all you need is a 1ch buffer andF set it up to return when the buffer is full. You do need a little codeG to cope with keypresses that generate multiple bytes, but that's pretty 	 easy too.    Shane    -----Original Message-----6 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]( Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 6:26 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read     Mike Rechtman wrote: > D > Definitely possible. BASIC has a built-in function that does this.  G Yes, I've used INKEY$ in the past. I've just never been inclinded to go $ down to the $QIO(W) level behind it.   > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > > Bernard Giroud wrote:  > > ? > >>In trying to port ncurses on to VMS, we just hit a problem:  > >>A > >>Is it possible to just set the terminal with a combination of C > >>modes and characteristics so that the posix read in lib_getch.c < > >>will return immediately for 1 key instead of waiting for > >>a terminator?  > >> > > L > > I'm sure what you want is possible using $QIOW, but I don't know if that > > would be suitable. > >  > >  >  > -- > ( > New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:8 > http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmG > --------------------------------------------------------------------- G > Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. A > Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* G > Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337 E >    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------      --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:14:42 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: New to VMS 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEGMFOAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- ( >From: Z [mailto:zarlenga@conan.ids.net]' >Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 6:31 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: New to VMS >  > # >Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote: @ >: Yes, and without the layered products licese you couldn't getH >: the PL/I compiler from www.kednos.com and then you might be forced to> >: step backwards in time and have to program in C or C++  :-) > 7 >PL/I's so old the manual comes on a stone tablet.  :')   A That's because it was so well designed that it didn't require any = changes, unlike C and Intel x86 which were obsolete when they  evolved :-)  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:11:28 +0200 ( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> Subject: Old DECC for VAX 3 Message-ID: <aodu7i$lg4oc$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>    Hi,   H I have a 7.3 VAX with DECC but need to install a program on an old 5.5-2I system. I am looking for an old DECC compiler, are medieval kits archived L anywhere? Sadly the customer will not put a newer DECRTL on the system, so IJ need to find the oldest compiler I can. VAXC isn't a starter in this case.  @ This is for simple code, it will probably work with any release.   --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.ch    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:23:27 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAX ) Message-ID: <3DAA7EFF.FC0F69F4@127.0.0.1>    Simon Brown wrote: >  > Hi,  > J > I have a 7.3 VAX with DECC but need to install a program on an old 5.5-2K > system. I am looking for an old DECC compiler, are medieval kits archivedmN > anywhere? Sadly the customer will not put a newer DECRTL on the system, so IL > need to find the oldest compiler I can. VAXC isn't a starter in this case. > B > This is for simple code, it will probably work with any release.  : http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/swroll/index.html  F Go there to find what you can use, then ask specifically. I'm not sureE of the legalities but I think someone can sell you an old kit (or CDs 4 containing) the kits, perhaps even loan them to you.  E You *will* need either a licensed purchased for that system when that E version was around, or buy a new licence for that system today, whichkD means you can also run the earlier versions. Be aware that licensingG regulations have changed from that time to this which could trip you upE@ if you are reusing old licences. A single user licence today may suffice.  G It may be a fallacy to think that installing an old kit does not update  the DECCRTL.   HTH. -- p? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:46:16 +0200s( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAXM3 Message-ID: <aoe7dh$lndrd$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>e   Hi,n  L Thanks. Switzerland is / was  a bit of a problem as the 'old' Digital peopleB I knew have left and the COMPAQ don't seem to know what VMS is :-(  7 Anyway, at least I now have some ammunition, so thanks.X --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.cho  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message1# news:3DAA7EFF.FC0F69F4@127.0.0.1...7 > Simon Brown wrote: > >p > > Hi,t > >3L > > I have a 7.3 VAX with DECC but need to install a program on an old 5.5-2D > > system. I am looking for an old DECC compiler, are medieval kits archivedK > > anywhere? Sadly the customer will not put a newer DECRTL on the system,s so IH > > need to find the oldest compiler I can. VAXC isn't a starter in this case.  > >CD > > This is for simple code, it will probably work with any release. > < > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/swroll/index.html > H > Go there to find what you can use, then ask specifically. I'm not sureG > of the legalities but I think someone can sell you an old kit (or CDse6 > containing) the kits, perhaps even loan them to you. >-G > You *will* need either a licensed purchased for that system when that1G > version was around, or buy a new licence for that system today, whichjF > means you can also run the earlier versions. Be aware that licensingI > regulations have changed from that time to this which could trip you up B > if you are reusing old licences. A single user licence today may
 > suffice. >tI > It may be a fallacy to think that installing an old kit does not updatel > the DECCRTL. >  > HTH. > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Scienceso > nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:59:46 +0200e( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAXe3 Message-ID: <aoe838$lo0e3$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>a  J OK, I now know I am after version 5.2 of the DECC. Sadly I have 6.4 on the machine available for my use.e --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.ch   3 "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> wrote in messagec- news:aoe7dh$lndrd$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de...- > Hi,- >-G > Thanks. Switzerland is / was  a bit of a problem as the 'old' Digitals peopleD > I knew have left and the COMPAQ don't seem to know what VMS is :-( >$9 > Anyway, at least I now have some ammunition, so thanks.e > --( > Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland > www.hb9drv.ch2 >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:25:03 GMTI- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>t Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAXr= Message-ID: <jQxq9.29723$m92.5787371@news1.news.adelphia.net>I   Simon Brown wrote: > I >I have a 7.3 VAX with DECC but need to install a program on an old 5.5-2 A >system. I am looking for an old DECC compiler, are medieval kits Q >archived anywhere? Sadly the customer will not put a newer DECRTL on the system,A >>K > so I need to find the oldest compiler I can. VAXC isn't a starter in this: > case.0 > A >This is for simple code, it will probably work with any release.5  F The AACRTL060 kit is the same for all versions of DEC/COMPAQ/HP C and H required for running any programs linked against the DEC/COMPAQ/HP C on  OpenVMS 5.5-2.  E So it does not matter if you build with an older version of DEC C or a with the latest.  D You can redistribute the AACRTL060 with your application as per the  terms of your license.  F There also appear to be eco kits for AACRTL060 on the public FTP site  for OpenVMS patches.   -Johnr wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:37:13 -0000s! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>g Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAXA/ Message-ID: <uqlb39fbo6lu86@corp.supernews.com>   ' Simon Brown <simon.brown@kns.ch> wrote:eJ : I have a 7.3 VAX with DECC but need to install a program on an old 5.5-2K : system. I am looking for an old DECC compiler, are medieval kits archiveduN : anywhere? Sadly the customer will not put a newer DECRTL on the system, so IL : need to find the oldest compiler I can. VAXC isn't a starter in this case.  G IIRC, if you link it properly, you can pull the necessary components of-I the C RTL into the image.  Then it should run just fine on the older o/s.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:57:07 +0200s( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAX>3 Message-ID: <aoebek$lesjv$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>.   Hi John,  L The customer has an older version of AACRT??? and will not allow AACRT060 toH be installed, so I have to get an older version of the compiler, which a' kind person is making available for me.l   Thanks,s --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.ch   8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message7 news:jQxq9.29723$m92.5787371@news1.news.adelphia.net...b >pG > The AACRTL060 kit is the same for all versions of DEC/COMPAQ/HP C andaI > required for running any programs linked against the DEC/COMPAQ/HP C ont > OpenVMS 5.5-2. >nF > So it does not matter if you build with an older version of DEC C or > with the latest. >LE > You can redistribute the AACRTL060 with your application as per the  > terms of your license. >-G > There also appear to be eco kits for AACRTL060 on the public FTP siter > for OpenVMS patches. >@   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:58:00 +0200.( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAXo3 Message-ID: <aoebg8$lpn6f$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>t   Hi,<  I I didn't think about this approach - I've been away from VMS for too long K (to my great shame). I will look at pulling the few C RTL components I need ? into the image, although I don't think I have done that before.m --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.chh  - "Z" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message ) news:uqlb39fbo6lu86@corp.supernews.com...l) > Simon Brown <simon.brown@kns.ch> wrote:cL > : I have a 7.3 VAX with DECC but need to install a program on an old 5.5-2D > : system. I am looking for an old DECC compiler, are medieval kits archivedK > : anywhere? Sadly the customer will not put a newer DECRTL on the system,- so IH > : need to find the oldest compiler I can. VAXC isn't a starter in this case.i >pI > IIRC, if you link it properly, you can pull the necessary components of1K > the C RTL into the image.  Then it should run just fine on the older o/s.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:01:15 -0400f& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAX ' Message-ID: <aoef6r$q1i$1@lore.csc.com>i  K On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:11:28 +0200, Simon Brown <simon.brown@kns.ch> wrote:b   > Hi,n > J > I have a 7.3 VAX with DECC but need to install a program on an old 5.5-2K > system. I am looking for an old DECC compiler, are medieval kits archivedlN > anywhere? Sadly the customer will not put a newer DECRTL on the system, so IL > need to find the oldest compiler I can. VAXC isn't a starter in this case. > B > This is for simple code, it will probably work with any release. >  >   F As already stated here by John Malmberg, you can't LINK an object fileH created by DEC C on a "standard" OpenVMS V5.5-2 system regardless of theH version of DEC C compiler you use, because the OS support (DECC$SHR.EXE)E for DEC C was not included with OpenVMS until OpenVMS V6.1. All DEC CnE compiler kits ship with the AACRT060 kit that John referred to, which D provides the parts you need to add TO YOUR V5.5-2 SYSTEM in order to  link and execute DEC C programs.  E This is described in some detail in the SPD for Compaq C V6.4 you cank find at:  8         http://www1.sqp.com/MasterIndex/spd_0001b4b8.txtE ---------------------------------------------------------------------eE David M. Smith 302.391.8533                   dsmit115 at csc dot comyE Computer Sciences Corporation (Opinions are those of the writer only)iE ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:11:42 -0400c& From: "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAXe. Message-ID: <3daac28f$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  3 "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> wrote in message0- news:aodu7i$lg4oc$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de...i | Hi,c |.J | I have a 7.3 VAX with DECC but need to install a program on an old 5.5-2K | system. I am looking for an old DECC compiler, are medieval kits archivedcL | anywhere? Sadly the customer will not put a newer DECRTL on the system, so IgL | need to find the oldest compiler I can. VAXC isn't a starter in this case. | B | This is for simple code, it will probably work with any release. |h  
     Simon,  J     You should be able to install the current VAX Compaq C compiler (V6.4)K     on a V5.5-2 system.  According to the SPD, it is supported there.  Noteb thatF     installing the compiler will not change the DECCRTL on the system.       Ed Vogel     Compaq C Engineering   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:49:24 +0200-( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAX 3 Message-ID: <aoei15$lc48g$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>s   Hi Ed,  K That may be a solution - compile on 5.5-2 and ship executables (I prefer to:K link, but this is a one-off). I haven't started my 5.5-2 system for about 7d years - I hope it still works!   Nice compiler BTW. --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.chh  1 "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com> wrote in messageo( news:3daac28f$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... >     Simon, >hL >     You should be able to install the current VAX Compaq C compiler (V6.4)G >     on a V5.5-2 system.  According to the SPD, it is supported there.w Note > thatH >     installing the compiler will not change the DECCRTL on the system. >t >     Ed Vogel >     Compaq C Engineering >'   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:24:16 +0100o' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategica. Message-ID: <3DAAA960.7030902@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3D9D7978.3020409@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  > ; >>If you can think of one single valid reason why a Sun/IBMe9 >>account that does not have any OpenVMS systems would bea( >>interested in this marketing programme >  >  >    How about 3 valid reasons:  >  >    1) security >    2) reliabilityc >    3) ease of usel > G >    You haven't been listening, have you?  CIOs have changed platformsiK >    and they have become aware of the increasing manpower cost of Windows   >    and UNIX based solutions. >   6 You clearly havn't been listening either or rather you3 havn't been reading since none of your points refers2 in any way to the "Strategic" marketing program we are discussing.2   Regards1 Andrew Harrison.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:29:11 +0100s' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategic'. Message-ID: <3DAAAA87.8020109@nospamn.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >=20 >> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:e >>, >>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>>m >>>> John Smith wrote: >>>>J >>>>> Related to my 1st  question above - have any IBM or Sun shops actua= lly  >>>>> received these brochures?o >>>> >=20 >=200 >>>> Would it make any difference if they had ?? >>>  >=20 >=20 >>> Pretty dum question. >>>a0 >>> How many posts have you read here asking for' >>> more and broader marketing of VMS ?/ >>>r! >>> Probably just a few hundred !  >>>r, >>> So yes - it would please a lot of people- >>> to hear that every IBM and SUN based shop  >>> has gotten that brochure.p >> >=20 >=209 >> So you make no distinction whatsover between effective-0 >> marketing and marketing that is ineffectual ! >> >> Unsuprising.  >>2 >> This is a horribly tactical marketing programme5 >> it is all about getting customers who have planned = >> OpenVMS purchases to bring them forward into this quarter.e >>> >> Given its short validity and the target base it is unlikely< >> to have any impact on Sun/IBM shops, unless they also buy9 >> OpenVMS, have a purchase in the pipeline and happen to,: >> have some decommisioned IBM/Sun boxes that they can use: >> to make HP eat some more margin. Since all of this is a= >> bit of a long shot you can see that the difference between-7 >> effective marketing and ineffective marketing is allm
 >> important.a >>< >> If you can think of one single valid reason why a Sun/IBM: >> account that does not have any OpenVMS systems would beB >> interested in this marketing programme then please advance them6 >> otherwise my point which was short and to the point
 >> stands. >=20 >=20 > What part of : >=20, > # So yes - it would please a lot of people- > # to hear that every IBM and SUN based shop  > # has gotten that brochure.s >=20( > is for complex for you to understand ? >=20' > It is the signal value not the sale !d >=20  + You posting is the best example I can thinkV1 of that illustrates the mindset which will be thea death of OpenVMS.   ) What OpenVMS needs is sales, they are allI
 important.  0 What OpenVMS needs is a marketing programme that increases its run rate.p  - What OpenVMS needs like a hole in the head isC- a marketing programme like this which appealsl/ to the converted and which has no impact on thee unconverted.  - What OpenVMS needs like a hole in the head isP, a strategy which errodes its margins just to* bring guaranteed business into the current financial year.g   Regards- Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:51:39 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategicn. Message-ID: <3DAAAFCB.7020102@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3D9D76AF.1010000@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > E >>3.	Can you think of any reason why this kind of offer will be of notK >>interest to Sun/IBM customers except if they are also OpenVMS customers ?a >>M >>I hope so. If they arn't OpenVMS customers already then the chances of themiJ >>making their minds up for a change of platform and doing it plus issuingK >>the order in a timeframe that will fall inside the offer period is almoste >>nil. >  > @ >    So Sun has no hopes of attracting existing IBM, HP, or Dell< >    customers, each of which would have to change platform? >   5 Warning CFA (Comprehansion Failure Alert). The phrasec1 you failed to comprehend was "in a timeframe". As 3 CFA's on this group it doesn't count as a major sinS1 and certainly isn't in the top 20. However in the / context of this discussion it rather ruins yourd point.  = Of course Sun hopes to attract existing Sun, HP etc customerso: and if our market share gains are anything to go by we are< being pretty sucessfull at it. As Dell are persuading Compaq and HP customers to jump ship.  : However we would not expect any kind of strategic decision; on changing platforms onto Sun to be made in 3-4 weeks from 6 the beginning of the marketing campaign that initiated the discussions.   Would you ?/   Regardsf Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 08:41:10 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategic.3 Message-ID: <n5NpLb6u19pj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3DAAA960.7030902@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >  > Bob Koehler wrote:[ >> In article <3D9D7978.3020409@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:9 >> 1 >> .< >>>If you can think of one single valid reason why a Sun/IBM: >>>account that does not have any OpenVMS systems would be) >>>interested in this marketing programmea >> r >> p  >>    How about 3 valid reasons: >> d >>    1) security  >>    2) reliability >>    3) ease of use >> eH >>    You haven't been listening, have you?  CIOs have changed platformsL >>    and they have become aware of the increasing manpower cost of Windows  >>    and UNIX based solutions.a >>   > 8 > You clearly havn't been listening either or rather you5 > havn't been reading since none of your points referT4 > in any way to the "Strategic" marketing program we > are discussing.e >   F    You asked a question, you got an answer.  You didn't like.  Aaw, so    sad.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:54:20 +0100t' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategics. Message-ID: <3DAACC8C.7040604@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DAAA960.7030902@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >> >>Bob Koehler wrote: >>[ >>>In article <3D9D7978.3020409@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:t >>>n >>>e >>> = >>>>If you can think of one single valid reason why a Sun/IBMe; >>>>account that does not have any OpenVMS systems would beM* >>>>interested in this marketing programme >>>a >>>i  >>>   How about 3 valid reasons: >>>r >>>   1) securitye >>>   2) reliability >>>   3) ease of use >>>aH >>>   You haven't been listening, have you?  CIOs have changed platformsL >>>   and they have become aware of the increasing manpower cost of Windows  >>>   and UNIX based solutions.  >>>  >>8 >>You clearly havn't been listening either or rather you5 >>havn't been reading since none of your points refers4 >>in any way to the "Strategic" marketing program we >>are discussing.w >> >  > H >    You asked a question, you got an answer.  You didn't like.  Aaw, so	 >    sad.r >   9 Warning another CFA (Comprehension Failure Alert). I saidt' on the basis of this marketing program.n  < Now where in this marketing program did HPQ try to establish! any 3 valid reasons you refer to.e  ; They didn't in essence the "Marketing Programme" is nothinge% more than offering a bigger discount.   8 Now where in your three points do you refer to cheaper ?  9 Still its wonderfull to know that I havn't been listeningo thanks for telling me.   regardss Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:59:54 GMT8# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategictI Message-ID: <KZAq9.244439$8b1.42514@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>D  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>b9 wrote in message news:3DAAAA87.8020109@nospamn.sun.com...a  9 >> So you make no distinction whatsover between effectiveK0 >> marketing and marketing that is ineffectual ! >> >> Unsuprising.n >>2 >> This is a horribly tactical marketing programme5 >> it is all about getting customers who have plannedi= >> OpenVMS purchases to bring them forward into this quarter.  >>> >> Given its short validity and the target base it is unlikely< >> to have any impact on Sun/IBM shops, unless they also buy9 >> OpenVMS, have a purchase in the pipeline and happen tow: >> have some decommisioned IBM/Sun boxes that they can use: >> to make HP eat some more margin. Since all of this is a= >> bit of a long shot you can see that the difference betweeni7 >> effective marketing and ineffective marketing is alld
 >> important.c >>< >> If you can think of one single valid reason why a Sun/IBM: >> account that does not have any OpenVMS systems would beB >> interested in this marketing programme then please advance them6 >> otherwise my point which was short and to the point
 >> stands. ......   >Andrew writes:l, >You posting is the best example I can think2 >of that illustrates the mindset which will be the >death of OpenVMS.  * >What OpenVMS needs is sales, they are all >important.-  1 >What OpenVMS needs is a marketing programme thato >increases its run rate.  . >What OpenVMS needs like a hole in the head is. >a marketing programme like this which appeals0 >to the converted and which has no impact on the
 >unconverted.e  . >What OpenVMS needs like a hole in the head is- >a strategy which errodes its margins just tom+ >bring guaranteed business into the currentt >financial year.    ? Andrew, you get this better than all the marketing execs at HP. I I'm going to write Carly with your observations. Maybe she'll offer you ae job in marketing.    Thanks.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:55:01 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyt! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategice. Message-ID: <3DAAE8D5.8050403@nospamn.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:tM > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>s; > wrote in message news:3DAAAA87.8020109@nospamn.sun.com...g   >>Andrew writes:- >>You posting is the best example I can think 3 >>of that illustrates the mindset which will be thed >>death of OpenVMS.0 >  > + >>What OpenVMS needs is sales, they are allh >>important. >  > 2 >>What OpenVMS needs is a marketing programme that >>increases its run rate.  >  > / >>What OpenVMS needs like a hole in the head isa/ >>a marketing programme like this which appealse1 >>to the converted and which has no impact on the  >>unconverted. >  > / >>What OpenVMS needs like a hole in the head is . >>a strategy which errodes its margins just to, >>bring guaranteed business into the current >>financial year., >  >  > A > Andrew, you get this better than all the marketing execs at HP.lK > I'm going to write Carly with your observations. Maybe she'll offer you am > job in marketing.e >    Thanks I think.a  7 The sad thing is that HP may need to do the things that.7 are detrimental to OpenVMS in order to deliver on theirt public statements.  5 HP may need to bring as much revenue as possible that:0 customers are planning to spend with HP into the. current quarter despite the fact that this may reduce their margins.3  0 EMC's recent announcements included a worse than/ expected performance for their quarter that has . just ended apparently demand fell off badly at the end of September.g  4 In Early September HP's execs were predicting higher2 Enterprise Systems revenues for the Quarter ending at the end of October.  T http://investor.cnet.com/investor/news/newsitem/0-9900-1028-20406781-0.html?tag=ltnc  8 If EMC experience is anything to go by then these rather3 bullish statements may be harder to deliver on than 4 people were expecting at the beginning of September.   Regardsh Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:19:16 +0200 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategico) Message-ID: <3DAAEE84.6040402@vajhoej.dk>c  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > Arne Vajhj wrote:+ >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:a >>> Arne Vajhj wrote:- >>>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:,1 >>>>> Would it make any difference if they had ??      >>>> Pretty dum question.n    1 >>>> How many posts have you read here asking fori( >>>> more and broader marketing of VMS ? >>>>" >>>> Probably just a few hundred ! >>>>- >>>> So yes - it would please a lot of people:. >>>> to hear that every IBM and SUN based shop >>>> has gotten that brochure.    : >>> So you make no distinction whatsover between effective1 >>> marketing and marketing that is ineffectual !b     >> What part of :e >>- >> # So yes - it would please a lot of peopler. >> # to hear that every IBM and SUN based shop >> # has gotten that brochure. >>) >> is for complex for you to understand ?s >>( >> It is the signal value not the sale ! > - > You posting is the best example I can think:3 > of that illustrates the mindset which will be thec > death of OpenVMS.e > + > What OpenVMS needs is sales, they are allt > important.  6 I will conclude that you do not understand english....  ! I agree with many of your points.W  , But those has *nothing* to do with the topic of this sub-thread.o  , I am trying to explain to you, that a lot of1 people in this forum would have loved to see that , brochure send to every IBM and SUN customer.  0 We think that it would be a very positive signal- from HP. Efficient or non-efficient marketingm is not really the issue.  , I wonder whether you would understand it, if$ I tried to explain it in danish ?? W  ) Well - it can not go worse than english !    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:55:22 +0100n' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyc! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategic-. Message-ID: <3DAAF6FA.6070508@nospamn.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >=20 >> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:  >>, >>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>>i >>>> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:  >>>>. >>>>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>>>>t2 >>>>>> Would it make any difference if they had ?? >>>>>- >=20 >=20 >>>>> Pretty dum question. >>>> >=20 >=202 >>>>> How many posts have you read here asking for) >>>>> more and broader marketing of VMS ?f >>>>> # >>>>> Probably just a few hundred !. >>>>>/. >>>>> So yes - it would please a lot of people/ >>>>> to hear that every IBM and SUN based shopm >>>>> has gotten that brochure.R >>>> >=20 >=20; >>>> So you make no distinction whatsover between effectivec2 >>>> marketing and marketing that is ineffectual ! >>>  >=20 >=20 >>> What part of : >>>o. >>> # So yes - it would please a lot of people/ >>> # to hear that every IBM and SUN based shop  >>> # has gotten that brochure.  >>>y* >>> is for complex for you to understand ? >>>r) >>> It is the signal value not the sale !@ >> >>. >> You posting is the best example I can think4 >> of that illustrates the mindset which will be the >> death of OpenVMS. >>, >> What OpenVMS needs is sales, they are all
 >> important.i >=20       >=208 > I will conclude that you do not understand english.... >=20# > I agree with many of your points.  >=20. > But those has *nothing* to do with the topic > of this sub-thread.d >=20. > I am trying to explain to you, that a lot of3 > people in this forum would have loved to see thatt. > brochure send to every IBM and SUN customer. >=202 > We think that it would be a very positive signal/ > from HP. Efficient or non-efficient marketing  > is not really the issue. >=20  1 I understand this, its obvious from the postings.o  0 But so far you havn't provided any justification. for HP doing this apart from a vague idea that$ the readers of COV would be happier.  . I really hope you don't need an argument about- how far from a sensible business case keeping- COV readers happy is.-  , It is also clear that you arn't getting very* far with your line of argument perhaps its time to cease.   Regards  Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:44:38 +0100-( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>3 Subject: Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters-) Message-ID: <3DAA75E6.1E895FEE@127.0.0.1>-   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:- > : > On 12 Oct 02, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote: > >If SAP made toasters J > >The manual to run the toaster would be approximately 10,000 pages long.H > >The toaster would come with 2,500 switches which would all have to beF > >set in an exact pattern and in a precise sequence in order to toastF > >specific kinds of bread. Each pattern would be established by SAP'sI > >experts as the "Best Practices" method of toasting that kind of bread.eK > >It would take a team of basis and functional contractors about 1 year torH > >configure the toaster in the best manner and then another 6 months toC > >test it. In the meantime your entire family would need to attendeH > >extensive training classes on how to use the new toaster. In order toI > >support end users and consultants, MIT would establish a list-serv for D > >people to post questions and answers regarding toaster set-up andI > >operation. Of course, the online help would randomly pop up in German.gH > >But once it was running (if ever...), you'd get the best toast in the	 > >world.r   > Any more? :-)    Missing from the SAP toaster:   D Bread made from flour, or containing quantities of flour milled fromD certain varieties of grain would be incompatible with the toaster noA matter what the settings, so you'd either have to re-engineer theo< varieties to fit in with the settings, or just not use them.   -- '? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 08:30:56 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)/3 Subject: Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters-3 Message-ID: <lZOzxlzqY55C@eisner.encompasserve.org>   v In article <20021012120546.25992.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:: > On 12 Oct 02, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote: >>If SAP made toasters  ! If VMS Engineering made toasters:e  E    You'd put your bread in it, press a button, and the 75 watt heater-C    would turn it somewhat brown before it popped up.  To change the L    darkness try the following code extracted from sys$examples:dec$toast.f90    newdark = tt$k_dark_medium-%  status = sys$assign("TOA0:",chan,,,),#  if (.not.status) call exit(status)T  D  status = sys$qiow(,%val(chan),%val(io$_setmode.or.io$m_darkness), &'    	    	     iosb,,newdark,%val(4),,,) #  if (.not.status) call exit(status)o%  if (.not.iosb(1)) call exit(iosb(1))S     If SGI made toasters:0  H    Well actually, they did.  But they called them O2 and the slot in the    top was for CDs..   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:10:02 +0100g% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s Subject: Re: powerterm and XPe8 Message-ID: <fa2lqu8ra4llk94u62jpdr0gbd9o1ks34q@4ax.com>  3 On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:15:58 +1000, "Antony Wardle"o1 <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> wrote:e  4 >Anyone got a version of powerterm that works on XP? >n >my 5.4 version doesn't. >h6 >Im using something called putty which seems to be ok.3 >http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/   C With the version of Powerterm I have, right-click on the executablee& and click the run as if "NT" property.   >antonyc >i   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:12:49 GMT:- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>1 Subject: Re: powerterm and XP-= Message-ID: <RExq9.29699$m92.5784881@news1.news.adelphia.net>m   Alan Greig wrote:n5 > On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:15:58 +1000, "Antony Wardle"73 > <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> wrote:a > 5 >>Anyone got a version of powerterm that works on XP?5 >>my 5.4 version doesn't.f >>7 >>Im using something called putty which seems to be ok.e4 >>http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ > E > With the version of Powerterm I have, right-click on the executabler( > and click the run as if "NT" property.  I That is similar to a CC: to my e-mail address that I received by someone iE that figured out how to get e-mail delivered to "qsl.network", But I ,0 have not seen the post show up on the newsgroup.    R > 	I 'assume' you're getting the "unsupported operating system" error (if not, let > 	me know). > Q > 	If so, here's a note that I sent to a couple of customers over the last coupleo: > 	of weeks.  Let me know if you have any other questions. >  > 		Dave >  eD > If you receive the error "Unsupported Operating System" with this D > program and it worked correctly on an earlier version of Windows, A > select the compatibility mode that matches that earlier version,= > To set the compatibility properties for a program manually:cG > Right-click the program icon on your desktop OR the shortcut on the  s, > Start menu for the program you want to run > Then click on Properties > Click the Compatibility tab J > Change the compatibility settings for your program ( e.g. Windows 2000 )W > Note:  The Compatibility is only available for programs installed on your hard drive.wO >             Although you can run the Program Compatibility Wizard on programsnU >             or setup files on a CD-Rom or floppy disk, your changes will not remain 4 >             in effect after you close the program.X >             For more information about an option on the Compatibility tab, right-click4 >             the option and then click What's This. >    -Johns wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlye   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:47:53 +01001* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> Subject: RE: powerterm and XPcM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E9B0@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>   & Version 6.3.1 works very well with XP    Regardso Andrew Robinson    -----Original Message-----3 From: John E. Malmberg [mailto:wb8tyw@qsl.network]   Sent: 12 October 2002 23:54  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComX Subject: Re: powerterm and XP,     Antony Wardle wrote:5 > Anyone got a version of powerterm that works on XP?s >  > my 5.4 version doesn't.7 > 8 > Im using something called putty which seems to be ok. 4 > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/  A I am crossposting this to the Pathworks group, as PowerTerm is a a component of Pathworks 32.   -Johne wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 08:03:38 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: powerterm and XPd= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0210140703.2d22fe06@posting.google.com>e  e Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<fa2lqu8ra4llk94u62jpdr0gbd9o1ks34q@4ax.com>...l5 > On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:15:58 +1000, "Antony Wardle"n3 > <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> wrote:  > 6 > >Anyone got a version of powerterm that works on XP? > >r > >my 5.4 version doesn't. > >s8 > >Im using something called putty which seems to be ok.5 > >http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/n > E > With the version of Powerterm I have, right-click on the executablef( > and click the run as if "NT" property. > 	 > >antonya > >u  & also works if you use windows 2000 ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:28:07 GMTa" From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com>7 Subject: Re: Problems with Printer-Queues on VMS V7.3-1 & Message-ID: <3DAA6222.92980CE3@hp.com>  4 This is a known issue. Source of the problem is RMS.  ? Please contact your local support center to get a fix for this.n   Guyk   "Ren Schelbaum" wrote:C   > Hi!e >eM > After updateing from V7.3 to V7.3-1 (including latest patches) I ran into a 
 > problem: >tG > We have a couple of printer-queues configured and started as follows:o >r > $       !L > $       ! PRT$TES_1b > $       !S > $       run SYS$SYSTEM:LATCP > create port LTA112: /nolog > exit? > $       set device/spooled=(PRT$TES_1, SYS$SYSDEVICE) LTA112:s) > $       assign/system lta112: PRT$TES_1iN > $       init/que/start/proc=TCPIP$TELNETSYM/on="10.237.13.99:9100" PRT$TES_1 > $       !w > J > This configuration works fine, long as I issue a "print /queue=prt$tes_1 > filename". >aL > Unfortunately we have a couple of applications that just do the following: >0 > open PRT$TES_1 > write to PRT$TES_1 > close PRT$TES_1o >t > or "COPY filename PRT$TES_1:"  >sL > that used to work fine with the little trick (using the LTA-device without> > setting a port for it) we got from Compaq-support years ago. >n) > Since V7.3-1 when we do the open we getn >d# > "%RMS-E-DNF, directory not found"a >i > and when we do a copy, we getw > B > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening LTA112:<TEST>TEST.LIS;1 as output! > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found $ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file; > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, $1$DKA100:<TEST>TEST.LIS;1 not copied.  >hN > Before starting the long and winding road via "the new HP"-support, I wantedK > to ask if anybody out there already ran into that problem and maybe has a. > solution.s >t > Thanks in advance! >  > Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:19:46 +020002 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>7 Subject: Re: Problems with Printer-Queues on VMS V7.3-10G Message-ID: <3daafca1$0$30462$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>o  C "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> schrieb im NewsbeitragoA news:3da6de2d$0$32596$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...  > Hi!: >:K > After updateing from V7.3 to V7.3-1 (including latest patches) I ran into  aw
 > problem: >kG > We have a couple of printer-queues configured and started as follows:m >  > $       !  > $       ! PRT$TES_1f > $       !C > $       run SYS$SYSTEM:LATCP > create port LTA112: /nolog > exit? > $       set device/spooled=(PRT$TES_1, SYS$SYSDEVICE) LTA112:t) > $       assign/system lta112: PRT$TES_1tD > $       init/que/start/proc=TCPIP$TELNETSYM/on="10.237.13.99:9100"	 PRT$TES_1p > $       !h > J > This configuration works fine, long as I issue a "print /queue=prt$tes_1 > filename". >-L > Unfortunately we have a couple of applications that just do the following: >o > open PRT$TES_1 > write to PRT$TES_1 > close PRT$TES_1e >$ > or "COPY filename PRT$TES_1:"  >iL > that used to work fine with the little trick (using the LTA-device without> > setting a port for it) we got from Compaq-support years ago. >m) > Since V7.3-1 when we do the open we geta > # > "%RMS-E-DNF, directory not found", >- > and when we do a copy, we getv > B > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening LTA112:<TEST>TEST.LIS;1 as output! > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not foundd$ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file; > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, $1$DKA100:<TEST>TEST.LIS;1 not copied.u >dG > Before starting the long and winding road via "the new HP"-support, IM wantedK > to ask if anybody out there already ran into that problem and maybe has a  > solution.t >. > Thanks in advance! >u > Ren >T >0  ! Thanks to everybody who answered.   G It seems to be a RMS-bug in V7.3-1, and I am already in contact with my0 HP-rep here. Hope to have it solved soon.   Ren   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:57:44 GMT0, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com>' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAXD0 Message-ID: <Iqxq9.6$bf.205857@news.cpqcorp.net>   Alan E. Feldman wrote:H > Hey, another plural of VAX is "VAX systems". That's what the docs say,A > I believe. And no one can say it's wrong! Well, one can say it,i	 > but....u   <historical_note>vJ And the docs say it because there was a directive from the Digital (at theI time) legal folks to the effect that a trademark was easier to protect if@. the owner never used it as a stand-alone noun. </historical_note> -- bob.know1es@hp.com% (non-spammers should make the 1 an L)    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 06:16:48 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAXh= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210140516.3b480e68@posting.google.com>A  h Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DA6C54F.B951EE47@mindspring.com>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > G > > Merriam Webster (their online address is www.webster.com) says both- > > are acceptable.... > - > Aren't they the gang that has acquiesced to 0 > "nook-you-lar" as an acceptable pronounciation > of the word "nuclear"? [...]c  
 Check out   : http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/13/weekinreview/13SHEI.html  F for more information on "noo-kyu-ler". Hurry, it's free for the next 5) or 6 days only!!! After that, it's $2.50.m   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmane   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:42:12 +0200eE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>  Subject: Re: Technical Question.+ Message-ID: <3DAABBA4.5D0F776B@mediasec.de>a  / > The worst thing of all is log-files that growa > over time. > ( > Including files like ACCOUNTNG.DAT and" > SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL !  F Glen Everhart's adaptive default extension algorithm, plugged in as anE FDT routine, is your friend. It's one of the little things VMS shouldnJ have by default (perhaps with a volume- or file-settable switch - althoughD I think the approach is so much better, nobody will want the current behaviour anymore).    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:32:25 -0000h- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)  Subject: Re: Technical Questionn5 Message-ID: <92A782858warrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>-  0 djurkovic@gmx.net (Matthias Djurkovic) wrote in 2 <c135f52a.0210102327.7d608c26@posting.google.com>:   >Hello fellows,n > C >I have a question: a colleague told me, that disks that are filled-; >more than 75% do not perform as good as less filled disks.-D >Unfortunately, he was not able to tell me the technical reasons forD >this statement, and you know, I always want to know the reasons for >such statements ;-) >_G >The only reason I can find for such a statement is that it will becomesB >problematically with file and freespace fragmentation. But we areA >using a defragmentation tool and for that reason it cannot be an5 >issue.y >m4 >Can somebody explain the technical facts for this?? >s! >Thanks in advance for any input!u >m >Cheers,	 >Matthiase  L Despite all the valid technical details presented by others, I suspect your J colleague voiced his rule-of-thumb, rather than a hard engineering fact.  J I've seen applications that run fine with a 99% full disk, simply because I of the application's disk-access patterns.  Would it perform better on a rE 74% full disk?  Perhaps.  Would there be a difference in performance eK between a 74% full disk and a 76% one?  Probably not measurable.  There is p no magic line at 75%.-   ws   -- -   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)m The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:05 +0100c* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>, Subject: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.M Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E9AF@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>c   Please could you help?  J I upgraded two ES40's (DE600's) at the weekend to OVMS7.3-1 from OVMS7.2-1F everything went well until I tried to connect to the boxes via Telnet,F DECNET IV worked fine. I had an ~ 2 minute delay on the telnet which IK believe is some sort of Reverse DNS lookup problem. To test this I added myo5 PC into the local Host table and it worked perfectly.eK How do I stop this behaviour, I've had to reverse the upgrade, and drop theqJ 7.2-1 disk back in, so please could someone help me with the correct stepsH next time. I've only got a small time window to do the upgrade in and be  completely happy it's gone well.D As a side note : The FTP login delay due the reverse DNS problem hadJ vanished, so it appeared that the lookup had gone from FTP to TELNET which worried me. L I do have the upgraded disk at 7.3-1 which I can plug in and check parameter files if required. V  J I realise this is a purely Technical question with no political overtones,J so won't get through many people's Killfile, but if you could help I would be most grateful.    Regardsh   Andrew Robinsonn7 Battling to keep OVMS in at least one small UK company.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:17:34 -0400I' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>n0 Subject: RE: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9750@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,r  & What version of TCPIP are you running?  E There are a few eco kits which may/may not be applicable to the issue0 you are encountering.i   Reference: (url may wrap)cH http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/Readmes/vms/dec-axpvms-tcpi p_eco-v0503-181-4.READMEB http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/.new/openvms.shtml (official public patch site)   Regardso  
 Kerry Main Solutions Architect> Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesv Voice: 613-592-4660u Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----4 From: Andrew Robinson [mailto:arobinson@hspg.com]=20 Sent: October 14, 2002 6:09 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh, Subject: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.     Please could you help?  @ I upgraded two ES40's (DE600's) at the weekend to OVMS7.3-1 fromH OVMS7.2-1 everything went well until I tried to connect to the boxes viaF Telnet, DECNET IV worked fine. I had an ~ 2 minute delay on the telnetH which I believe is some sort of Reverse DNS lookup problem. To test thisG I added my PC into the local Host table and it worked perfectly. How doiD I stop this behaviour, I've had to reverse the upgrade, and drop theD 7.2-1 disk back in, so please could someone help me with the correctG steps next time. I've only got a small time window to do the upgrade inaF and be completely happy it's gone well. As a side note : The FTP loginG delay due the reverse DNS problem had vanished, so it appeared that thebB lookup had gone from FTP to TELNET which worried me. I do have theG upgraded disk at 7.3-1 which I can plug in and check parameter files ifw required.=20  ? I realise this is a purely Technical question with no political>H overtones, so won't get through many people's Killfile, but if you could help I would be most grateful.   Regardsl   Andrew Robinson 7 Battling to keep OVMS in at least one small UK company.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:45:55 +0100 ) From: Andrzej Piascik <andrzej@yrl.co.uk>l0 Subject: Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.) Message-ID: <3DAABC83.B93B49D1@yrl.co.uk>   @ It's unusual that there is a delay with Telnet but not with FTP.  6 Is the host lookup  "UCX SHOW HOST hostname" slow too?G What happens if you type to Telnet using an IP number rather than name?   M I've recently done a 7.2 to 7.3-1 upgrade on several machines with no problemm but have hadF similar problems if  name server(s) has not been configured correctly.   Andrzeje     Andrew Robinson wrote:   > Please could you help? >mL > I upgraded two ES40's (DE600's) at the weekend to OVMS7.3-1 from OVMS7.2-1H > everything went well until I tried to connect to the boxes via Telnet,H > DECNET IV worked fine. I had an ~ 2 minute delay on the telnet which IM > believe is some sort of Reverse DNS lookup problem. To test this I added my-7 > PC into the local Host table and it worked perfectly.nM > How do I stop this behaviour, I've had to reverse the upgrade, and drop theDL > 7.2-1 disk back in, so please could someone help me with the correct stepsJ > next time. I've only got a small time window to do the upgrade in and be" > completely happy it's gone well.F > As a side note : The FTP login delay due the reverse DNS problem hadL > vanished, so it appeared that the lookup had gone from FTP to TELNET which
 > worried me.aN > I do have the upgraded disk at 7.3-1 which I can plug in and check parameter > files if required. >iL > I realise this is a purely Technical question with no political overtones,L > so won't get through many people's Killfile, but if you could help I would > be most grateful.s >a	 > Regards  >l > Andrew Robinsona9 > Battling to keep OVMS in at least one small UK company.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:11:50 +0100 * From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>0 Subject: RE: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.M Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E9B2@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>o   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Andrzej Piascik [mailto:andrzej@yrl.co.uk] t > Sent: 14 October 2002 13:46c > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr2 > Subject: Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. >  > B > It's unusual that there is a delay with Telnet but not with FTP.  8 It was because of this, as to why I aborted the upgrade. >e8 > Is the host lookup  "UCX SHOW HOST hostname" slow too?? > What happens if you type to Telnet using an IP number rather - > than name?J I tried telneting to the IP address & had exactly the same result. But the1 expected result which was with FTP had vanished.   > @ > I've recently done a 7.2 to 7.3-1 upgrade on several machines 9 > with no problem but have had similar problems if  name e. > server(s) has not been configured correctly.I How could I best check this, & how could I disable it. I have a couple ofsH third party companies use our system, so wouldn't have their PC's in anyH sort of DNS. I just want what I had before, telnet connecting in < 1 sec5 without caring where the connection was coming from.   > 	 > Andrzeje >  >  > Andrew Robinson wrote: >  > > Please could you help? > >fE > > I upgraded two ES40's (DE600's) at the weekend to OVMS7.3-1 from g? > > OVMS7.2-1 everything went well until I tried to connect to m > the boxes H > > via Telnet, DECNET IV worked fine. I had an ~ 2 minute delay on the > > > telnet which I believe is some sort of Reverse DNS lookup  > problem. To D > > test this I added my PC into the local Host table and it worked E > > perfectly. How do I stop this behaviour, I've had to reverse the Y> > > upgrade, and drop the 7.2-1 disk back in, so please could  > someone help ,? > > me with the correct steps next time. I've only got a small a > time window ; > > to do the upgrade in and be completely happy it's gone m > well. As a side ? > > note : The FTP login delay due the reverse DNS problem had d > vanished, E > > so it appeared that the lookup had gone from FTP to TELNET which l= > > worried me. I do have the upgraded disk at 7.3-1 which I s > can plug in * > > and check parameter files if required. > >iD > > I realise this is a purely Technical question with no political G > > overtones, so won't get through many people's Killfile, but if you a( > > could help I would be most grateful. > >  > > Regardsr > >  > > Andrew Robinson ; > > Battling to keep OVMS in at least one small UK company.  >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 06:49:45 -07002 From: johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se (Johan Nilsson)3 Subject: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelsn= Message-ID: <c3c6388a.0210140549.60fb5fc0@posting.google.com>i   Hi,e  B programming question: Is it possible to get the underlying VMS I/OE channel no from an UNIX style file descriptor? I'd like to be able togA use open() to get valid file descriptor, and then use QIO for I/O  operations on these files.   // Johan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:00:28 +0200a6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelst) Message-ID: <3DAAF82C.9050003@vajhoej.dk>i   Johan Nilsson wrote:  D > programming question: Is it possible to get the underlying VMS I/OG > channel no from an UNIX style file descriptor? I'd like to be able to C > use open() to get valid file descriptor, and then use QIO for I/Oe > operations on these files.  1 Usually people uses RMS (SYS$OPEN) to get the FID:5 and then uses SYS$QIO(W) to open write/read the file.2  , I think there are plenty of examples around.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:13:38 -0700n# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n7 Subject: RE: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelse9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEHCFOAA.tom@kednos.com>c  4 I suspect Johan was looking for a portable solution?   >-----Original Message----->+ >From: Arne Vajhj [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk]l( >Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 10:00 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 >Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels >n >e >Johan Nilsson wrote:c >nE >> programming question: Is it possible to get the underlying VMS I/OeH >> channel no from an UNIX style file descriptor? I'd like to be able toD >> use open() to get valid file descriptor, and then use QIO for I/O >> operations on these files.  > 2 >Usually people uses RMS (SYS$OPEN) to get the FID6 >and then uses SYS$QIO(W) to open write/read the file. >I- >I think there are plenty of examples around.a >n >Arne> >c >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.l; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).dA >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002  >s ---.& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:59:09 GMTe4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelsp0 Message-ID: <3DAB03B0.93258714@blueyonder.co.uk>   Tom Linden wrote:p > 6 > I suspect Johan was looking for a portable solution?  4 In that case why did he specifically ask about $QIO?  - > >From: Arne Vajhj [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk]r > >Johan Nilsson wrote:  > >rG > >> programming question: Is it possible to get the underlying VMS I/OoJ > >> channel no from an UNIX style file descriptor? I'd like to be able toF > >> use open() to get valid file descriptor, and then use QIO for I/O > >> operations on these files.r > >r4 > >Usually people uses RMS (SYS$OPEN) to get the FID8 > >and then uses SYS$QIO(W) to open write/read the file. > >S/ > >I think there are plenty of examples around.y > >d > >Arner  o -- n tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk a  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:38:24 GMTh1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom>h Subject: Re: USB, VMS and PWS + Message-ID: <3DAAE2DC.ED2486B0@hp.com.doom>S  V     A few minor items, not all the PWS systems have this problem.  I know that the PWS xp1000 works- just fine with the Lucent/Agere  USS344 chip.e  V 1) The exact problem Dirk's system had was that the firmware got confuesd and told VMS that oneL      port got a uniquire IRQ and then to share the other 3 with the Ethernet controller.  OpenVMSX      does not have shared interrupt support.  The result was that all I/O to the network
 was timing*      out and that was hanging his startup.  W 2) Editing sys$config.dat is not supported editing mistakes can cause the system to notg boot up.  W 3) The USB code that in V7.3-1 is still under development.  The marvel support kit willa	 ship withST     a complete replacement of all but one of the USB support drivers.  This is still really new codet?    and we are still finding and fixing bugs on a regular basis.u     Forrest Kenney OpenVMS Developmentu   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 05:29:14 -07002 From: vankirk@decision.quest.gr (Stewart Van Kirk)A Subject: VMS 7.3 tp_server (decdtm) startup and sys$node_fullnamer< Message-ID: <8843e43.0210140429.46d89789@posting.google.com>  D We recently upgraded our system from VMS 7.1, DECNET Phase IV to 7.3 and DECNET Plus.  C After the upgrade, TP_SERVER doesn't start.  To start TP_SERVER, we 8 had to set the system logical, SYS$NODE_FULLNAME and runE sys$startup:decdtm$startup either from DCL or in a COM file.  Now, ineB 7.1, we didn't have to do this; in fact, neither the definition ofF SYS$NODE_FULLNAME existed in sylogicals.com nor did the aforementioned? startup call existed in systartup_vms.com.  We also checked thec* system$(nodename).lm$journal and it is OK.* The SYS$DECDTM_INHIBIT logical is not set.   What we want to know is:+ 1. Have we missed some blatant setup issue?S; 2. Is it acceptable to just place the logical definition in F sylogicals.com and the decdtm startup command in systartup_vms.com and be done with it?   Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:12:26 +0100 * From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com>" Subject: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption% Message-ID: <3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92>    Hi,f  L I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMS 7.3-1 -H storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.  We hadD problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  I did an   ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK'  ? Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such asU  8 %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1!         multiply allocated blocks>         VBN 78490 to 79515%         LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 1e8 %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1!         multiply allocated blocksO         VBN 79516 to 144324n  ? %ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3y)         of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1) !         Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISMh!                   and 'FILE2.ISM'p  I We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS 7.2-1 topF OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today - andG requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, if this is a ) known issue, it requires resolving first.n  & Does anyone know anything about this ?  @ Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2)  ! Thanks ins advance for any input.a   Craig Cooke  Dabs.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:21:01 +0200m2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File CorruptionG Message-ID: <3daa9a7c$0$18866$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>U   Hi!s  F Do you have a 3rd-party defragmentation-tool (like diskeeper) running?  L Had the same problem, because I had forgotten to make sure, that it is still compatible - it was not.   regardst   Ren    ; "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag  news:3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92...  > Hi,= > F > I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMS 7.3-1 -iJ > storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.  We hadF > problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  I did an >N > ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK' >tA > Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such aso >h: > %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1# >         multiply allocated blocks  >         VBN 78490 to 79515' >         LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 1e: > %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1# >         multiply allocated blockss >         VBN 79516 to 144324a >?A > %ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3p+ >         of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1) # >         Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISMl# >                   and 'FILE2.ISM'> >aK > We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS 7.2-1 to H > OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today - andI > requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, if this is ac+ > known issue, it requires resolving first.  >e( > Does anyone know anything about this ? >sB > Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2) >S# > Thanks ins advance for any input.t >u
 > Craig Cookes
 > Dabs.com >  >m >. >f >e >o >o >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:40:12 +0100i* From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com>& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption% Message-ID: <3daa9989$1@194.70.94.92>e   Hi Rene   I No, we do not have any disk defragmentation tools running on this system.a   Thanks for the input anyway.   Craig Cookep Dabs.com      = "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> wrote in messageaA news:3daa9a7c$0$18866$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...  > Hi!w >rH > Do you have a 3rd-party defragmentation-tool (like diskeeper) running? >0H > Had the same problem, because I had forgotten to make sure, that it is stills > compatible - it was not. > 	 > regardsE >F > Ren >1 > = > "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag.! > news:3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92...a > > Hi,r > > H > > I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMS	 > 7.3-1 -tL > > storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.  We hadH > > problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  I did an > >e > > ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK' > >lC > > Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such as  > >k< > > %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1% > >         multiply allocated blocksi > >         VBN 78490 to 79515) > >         LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 1t< > > %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1% > >         multiply allocated blockss > >         VBN 79516 to 144324  > >oC > > %ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3 - > >         of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1) % > >         Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISMu% > >                   and 'FILE2.ISM'  > > J > > We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS 7.2-1 toJ > > OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today - andK > > requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, if this is ai- > > known issue, it requires resolving first.o > > * > > Does anyone know anything about this ? > >eD > > Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2) > >e% > > Thanks ins advance for any input.a > >  > > Craig Cookeo > > Dabs.com > >c > >a > >  > >o > >  > >- > >- > >- >- >-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:57:25 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption2 Message-ID: <pqxq9.3592$N_6.114491@news.chello.at>  R In article <3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92>, "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> writes:M >I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMS 7.3-1 - I >storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.  We hadtE >problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  I did anr >t >ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK'i >o@ >Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such as >[snip] ' >Does anyone know anything about this ?t  K No. But I read of an RMS problem in V7.3-1 recently. Maybe this is related.l Contact your DECrep^WHPQrepy   -- , Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER.% Network and OpenVMS system specialistb E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:11:41 -0400t' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>r& Subject: RE: VMS 7.3-1 File CorruptionT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660A7C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Craig,   A few notes:C - HSG80 ACS fw should either be at either at V8.6-10 or V8.7.latesttA - as previous reply indicated, during your testing to isolate theaD problem, ensure there are no third party software products running -< especially any related to IO caching and/or defragmentation.# - are there any errors in errorlog? C - suggest logging with Customer Support Center for formal review oft issue.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660- Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom   (remove the DOT's)       -----Original Message-----2 From: Craig Cooke [mailto:ccooke@beta.dabs.com]=20 Sent: October 14, 2002 5:12 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg" Subject: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption     Hi,0  D I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMSH 7.3-1 - storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.H We had problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  I did an   ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK'  ? Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such as   8 %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1!         multiply allocated blocksa         VBN 78490 to 79515%         LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 1f8 %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1!         multiply allocated blocks          VBN 79516 to 144324I  ? %ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3i)         of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1)e!         Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISMf!                   and 'FILE2.ISM'   F We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS 7.2-1E to OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today - F and requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, if this. is a known issue, it requires resolving first.  & Does anyone know anything about this ?  @ Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2)  ! Thanks ins advance for any input.o   Craig Cooker Dabs.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:42:11 -0000t- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)g& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption5 Message-ID: <92A788526warrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>r  F ccooke@beta.dabs.com (Craig Cooke) wrote in <3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92>:   >Hi, >mE >I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMSmI >7.3-1 - storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.eF > We had problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  I >did an  >o >ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK'c >k@ >Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such as > 9 >%ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1-" >        multiply allocated blocks >        VBN 78490 to 79515 & >        LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 19 >%ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;18" >        multiply allocated blocks >        VBN 79516 to 144324 >k@ >%ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3* >        of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1)" >        Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISM" >                  and 'FILE2.ISM' >iG >We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS 7.2-1eF >to OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today -G >and requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, if thist/ >is a known issue, it requires resolving first.  > ' >Does anyone know anything about this ?u >aA >Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2)l >t" >Thanks ins advance for any input. >- >Craig Cooke	 >Dabs.com   K Is this system part of a cluster?  Disk corruption is often unavoidable in j a partitioned cluster.   ws   -- D   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)n The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:29:55 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> < Subject: VMS MAIL: COMPRESS _increases_ the size of the file; Message-ID: <01KNNNI9E4T29QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  I I was doing some mail housekeeping and COMPRESSed several mail files.  I  H notice that with big files, COMPRESS brings the size down (that's why I C use it), but with smaller files, sometimes (perhaps usually or evenr2 always) the size goes up.  Here are some examples:   FOO.MAI;1                 40/510 FOO.OLD;1                 36/51    BAR.MAI;1                 57/68o BAR.OLD;1                 45/51V  E In general, under what circumstances can a COMPRESSed file be bigger S than the original file?M  D (In case it's not clear, I mean MAIL> COMPRESS, which I think calls  CONVERT/RECLAIM).e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:32:37 +0100i( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>& Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing question) Message-ID: <3DAA7315.C041ED22@127.0.0.1>r   Lee Y T Mah wrote: > B > I've been setting up some two- and three- member shadow sets forJ > testing.  In the process, I realized how easy it is to get rid of shadowH > sets.  Now if one had a production shadow set called DSA999 and a testC > shadow set DSA998, and one accidentally entered "DISMOUNT/CLUSTER I > DSA999" instead of "DISMOUNT/CLUSTER DSA998", the production shadow set G > DSA999 would dissolve, and users accessing it would most likely hang.pG > Is there not or should there not be a safeguard against this, such asPH > asking for confirmation before deleting the shadow set if it still has > members in it?  F If processes on nodes (read also singular in those plurals) had activeD file channels open to the shadowset, then it will not fully dismountG until those channels are closed by the processes concerned. "Device has H channels assigned" is the 'error' message IIRC. (DISMOUNT qualifiers can override this behaviour).t  H So in actual fact, the dismount would hang, not the user. Of course, any& new attempts to open files would fail.  H Unfortunately, the way out of this is to allow the dismount to complete,C then reissue the MOUNT command, I've not had any success aborting aaF dismount command once issued, however it's a large number of years agoH (and a few versions ago) and perhaps the collective here has more advice and information.  F One point to make is you're not deleting the shadow set, remounting itE makes it available again. However, I guess you are in effect deletinge the device.e  G > I have been using HBVS for quite a while (DUS Phase 1), and I thoughthF > with DUS shadowing, one had to remove the shadow members in order to > dissolve the DUS shadow set.  H Depends what a shadow set is to you. You can have a single member shadowH set that is still a shadow set, and is dissolved when that (last) single member is dismounted.   G You can have a 2 member shadowset, and removing one of the members doesMG not dissolve it, but you do lose its protection, it is not a shadow setd but it is also not dissolved.1   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:51:18 +0100r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) Message-ID: <3DAA8586.E4740C21@127.0.0.1>    John Smith wrote:  > I > I was just filling in my subscription renewal for Information Week, andmF > there's a section amongst the form that asks "Which of the followingD > operating systems are in use or planned for use at this location?" > L > Guess which of your favorite o/s products isn't listed? However there is aC > checkbox for "Other" but there is no write-in space to enter VMS.  > M > Interestingly enough, Sun OS / Solaris has its own checkbox while all otheriB > unix variants are listed collectively under the category 'Unix'. > D > Information Week purports to be targetted at CIO/CTO and senior IT > management types.r  C I too find this [UK], that VMS is becoming de-listed and the online F subscription units seem more interested in my shoe size than operating$ systems, which is very Monty Python.   -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 07:41:29 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)L Subject: [OT] The Mill clock tower, was: Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents3 Message-ID: <BKiHtMsm$4SQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  c In article <peadnUgqMthCgjWgXTWcqA@News.GigaNews.Com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:a > L > Well, you did end your question with a smiley.  If you *really* don't knowI > the significance:  DEC began in the Maynard Mill and had its managementrE > center there pretty much throughout its history (though the bulk ofkK > engineering moved elsewhere about 1980 - the PDP-10 group a bit earlier)./L > One of the central buildings in the mill complex had a clock tower perchedI > on top, visible far and wide.  The mechanical clock mechanism had to berJ > wound regularly, and adventurous engineers would make pilgrimages up theN > tower frequently (and around the bowels of the mill as well, where one storyN > has it the 'maze of twisty little passages, all alike' came from:  it really. > was a great place to explore for new-hires). >   ; There is a guided tour of the inside of the clock tower at:m  8 http://web.maynard.ma.us/history/millclocktour/index.htm   That page is linked from:   + http://web.maynard.ma.us/history/clock1.htmn  ? So how many of you have actually been to the top of the clock ?m   Simon.  D PS: The page at that site on the mill history contains the following references:s  E "Digital's Mill 1847-1977", a brochure published by Digital Equipmenta Corporation in 1977. d  L "A Walk Through the Mill...", published by Digital Equipment Corporation for the Mill Clock Centennial. ?  0 Does anybody know if these are online anywhere ?   -- cB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.568 ************************