1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 15 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 569       Contents: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters$ Eliminating access logging from CSWS Re: Hobbyist kit Contents ' Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read  Re: New to VMS Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic* Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: powerterm and XP RE: powerterm and XP Re: powerterm and XP0 Re: Problem copying large files from VMS to Unix Re: singular and plural of VAX, TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (fixed yet?)' Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. ' Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. ' Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... C Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266... . Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. RE: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. RE: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels
 Re: V7.3-1< Re: VMS 7.3 tp_server (decdtm) startup and sys$node_fullname! Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted? ! Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted? # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! G Re: [OT] The Mill clock tower, was: Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:56:55 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters 6 Message-ID: <mmmdnUMNEcf5jjagXTWcrg@News.GigaNews.Com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:xbzq9.29315$vX.17419@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > 7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message % > news:3DAADD04.B9A1409F@127.0.0.1...  > > L > > Other companies tend to be 'in yer face' with their lesser achievements,B > > OpenVMS has a lot to shout about but the silence is deafening.  G In an at least marginally-related vein, today's Register has an article  which notes   , http://www.theregus.com/content/4/26622.html  J "IBM is trying to promote the iSeries as a platform for new workloads, andH so IBM is putting a governor on certain OS/400 features and slashing the2 prices of the machines to try to stimulate sales."  I So not all vendors view their 'proprietary' mid-range systems (OS/400, in . this case) as suitable only for 'legacy' work.  
  Where areC > > the popup ads on websites, the trailers in subscription emails?  > K > There's no money in the HP budgets to do any effective marketing. There's ( > only money for ineffectual things. :-( >  >  > > > > Effectively these testimonials should be "in addition to". > > ) > > e.g. ad line in a subscription email:  > > G > > See how HP Disaster Tolerant clusters can help when the unthinkable  > > happens @ > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/ > >  > > 12 words and a link. >  > E > Great idea. Change the line to read, " 9/11 -   See how HP Disaster  TolerantJ > clusters continue to work when the unthinkable happens".  A minor change but G > it almost assures that people will click on it - after all, HP didn't  cause L > the event, so nobody should get worked up about stating something factual.  K I've got to agree with others who seem to think that the change you suggest F would be just a bit tacky.  And at least for current ads 9/11 is stillL sufficiently fresh in everyone's mind that referring to it explicitly in theE headline really doesn't seem necessary for them to get the connection L (giving specific examples in the text that follows is certainly appropriate, though).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:35:02 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters ' Message-ID: <3DAB7ED6.5AD7FEAE@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC > news:xbzq9.29315$vX.17419@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > > 9 > > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message ' > > news:3DAADD04.B9A1409F@127.0.0.1...  > > > N > > > Other companies tend to be 'in yer face' with their lesser achievements,D > > > OpenVMS has a lot to shout about but the silence is deafening. > I > In an at least marginally-related vein, today's Register has an article 
 > which notes  > . > http://www.theregus.com/content/4/26622.html > L > "IBM is trying to promote the iSeries as a platform for new workloads, andJ > so IBM is putting a governor on certain OS/400 features and slashing the4 > prices of the machines to try to stimulate sales." > K > So not all vendors view their 'proprietary' mid-range systems (OS/400, in 0 > this case) as suitable only for 'legacy' work.  D Aye, laddie! ...and rare, indeed, is the vendor who is willing to go4 "slashing the prices ... to try to stimulate sales".  H After all, neglect of a high-margin, "flagship" product is a far greaterC and more effective tool for eroding shareholder value than slashing 
 margins...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:18:46 -0700 , From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>- Subject: Eliminating access logging from CSWS 4 Message-ID: <aofcbn$m41ml$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  H I asked this question a while ago, but still couldn't get what I wanted.B Thanks to our local Linux dude, he solved this problem by changing) the httpd.conf file with these two lines:     SetEnvIf Request_URI "." dontlog- CustomLog logs/access_log common env=!dontlog   = The first one says that if the URI is anything (".") then set 6 the internal environment variable dontlog.   That line3 was new to the file.  The second line is an edit of @ the default.  It means "if the dontlog variable is not set, then> log the access".  Since the variable is always set, nothing is logged.   7 Sort of backward, but seems to work.  Thanks to all who  offered their help.    Jim    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2002 03:06:11 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>" Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents, Message-ID: <aog0n302020@enews4.newsguy.com>  " John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:J > What's wrong with Montgar placing images on a DVD that costs $5 to make.K > Organize it like  many other DVD distributions are when you are given the N > choice of receiving the software on one DVD or a mountain of CD's.  On theseC > DVD's,  CD1, CD2, etc...are burned as complete images in separate N > directories. When you receive it you can copy the CD images onto single CD's2 > at your leisure, and then install from the CD's.  K If this would enable them to do this affordable, I for one would be all for L it.  OTOH, I find it hard to believe that having 1 DVD made would be cheaper! than having 5 or 6 CD-ROM's made.   L Of course personally I've no problem with paying more, IF it means there are multiple CD's.   			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:38:40 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read' Message-ID: <3DAB7FB0.AC16E65F@fsi.net>    Shane Smith wrote: > [snip]  = Have the hiccups, have you? ...or does your computer stutter?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:47:49 GMT 2 From: "Phillip Sobottke" <psobottke@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: New to VMS ? Message-ID: <pjEq9.4240$F53.3515143@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>   J It took a month from the time I joined encompass, to the time the hobbiestK org would recognize my id.  Once my id was recognized...and I submitted the ; license request..I had the email response within 15minutes. + "Joe" <syprinth@yahoo.com> wrote in message & news:aynq9.30460$rz6.4511@sccrnsc02...G > I hate to come in here with all you VMS pro's, but I just got 2 alpha L > servers and want to put VMS on them (mainly cause I don't know of anythingL > else that will go on them nicely).  I have applied for a hobbiest license,L > but have gotten no response.  Any ideas how long it takes to get one?  AndG > 2nd, I don't want to pay the money to get the CD's.  Anyone out there 8 > willing to burn me a copy of the latest Alpha release? >  > --Joe  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:36:30 +0200 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategic ) Message-ID: <3DAB0EAE.1020608@vajhoej.dk>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > Arne Vajhj wrote:9 >> I will conclude that you do not understand english....  >>$ >> I agree with many of your points. >>/ >> But those has *nothing* to do with the topic  >> of this sub-thread. >>/ >> I am trying to explain to you, that a lot of 4 >> people in this forum would have loved to see that/ >> brochure send to every IBM and SUN customer.  >>3 >> We think that it would be a very positive signal 0 >> from HP. Efficient or non-efficient marketing >> is not really the issue.    > 3 > I understand this, its obvious from the postings.     6 Then why do you not admit that your "Would it make any3 difference if they had ??" was a good candidate for & summest question of the year shut up ?    2 > But so far you havn't provided any justification0 > for HP doing this apart from a vague idea that& > the readers of COV would be happier.    - Listen carefully: THE TOPIC IS NOT MARKETING, , THE TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT WHY HP IS DOING THIS,1 THE TOPIC IS WHETHER IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE OR US.   0 > I really hope you don't need an argument about/ > how far from a sensible business case keeping  > COV readers happy is.      And ????  1 I have never commented on that topic. I have just . tried to explain to you that this forum is not. uninterested in whether that brochure was send  to IBM and SUN customers or not.  /  > It is also clear that you arn't getting very -  > far with your line of argument perhaps its   > time to cease.   1 I am very much in line. You seem to try and cover , up your stupid posts by posting generalities0 about marketing, efficient marketing, VMS's lack of the same etc.etc..    Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 14:13:12 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategic 3 Message-ID: <K8Y$q66cq7Mi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3DAACC8C.7040604@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > ; > Warning another CFA (Comprehension Failure Alert). I said ) > on the basis of this marketing program.   E    You asked a question.  You got an answer.  What the hell do I care     what other drivel you write?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:38:39 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)3 Subject: Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters J Message-ID: <rdeininger-1410022238390001@1cust35.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  3 In article <lZOzxlzqY55C@eisner.encompasserve.org>, , koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org wrote:  B >In article <20021012120546.25992.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher4 <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:; >> On 12 Oct 02, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:  >>>If SAP made toasters  > " >If VMS Engineering made toasters: > F >   You'd put your bread in it, press a button, and the 75 watt heaterD >   would turn it somewhat brown before it popped up.  To change theM >   darkness try the following code extracted from sys$examples:dec$toast.f90  >  > newdark = tt$k_dark_medium& > status = sys$assign("TOA0:",chan,,,)$ > if (.not.status) call exit(status) > E > status = sys$qiow(,%val(chan),%val(io$_setmode.or.io$m_darkness), & / >                     iosb,,newdark,%val(4),,,) $ > if (.not.status) call exit(status)& > if (.not.iosb(1)) call exit(iosb(1))  G Why did you hard-code the toaster name?  Clearly VMS would support more > than one toaster, so the "TOA0:" string should be generalized.   Also, you forgot    include '($toastdef)'   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:44:21 GMT . From: "David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com> Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS1 Message-ID: <F0Gq9.35$UD.815212@news.cpqcorp.net>   J To clarify, please send your responses to me -- I will forward them to the appropriate folks.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:15:08 GMT . From: "David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com> Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS1 Message-ID: <wtGq9.41$zG.877681@news.cpqcorp.net>   J If we can build a compelling business case then perhaps PeopleSoft will beK persuaded.  Although I appreciate the sentiment, no amount of philosophy or K lamenting will really help.  Clear, concise, real customer requirements and + impacts are useful right now.  For example;   E Customer XYZ requires the PeopleSoft data server capability on VMS to L support handling of 10,000 employees (~100GB) doing 500 transactions per dayL but being able to handle 100 transactions in the busiest hour with <2 secondJ response time to certain transactions while certain batch jobs are runningL concurrently.  Furthermore the system must be 99.99% uptime guaranteed (withJ penalties) highly available (no single point of failure) between 9:00 a.m.I and 5:00 p.m. EST.  Besides initial licenses costs and consulting fees of I $X, Customer XYZ is willing to spend $X/year (for 5 years (with option to I renew at a mutually agreeable price for another 5 years beyond that)) for J on-going remedial and new feature development support from PeopleSoft.  IfK PeopleSoft does not meet these requirements then Customer XYZ plans to take * their business to a competitor, e.g. Ross.  J Please be as specific as possible.  Please forward this to anyone else you6 know that might not follow comp.os.vms as appropriate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:27:00 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS' Message-ID: <3DAB8B04.EE7A3E58@fsi.net>    David Rabahy wrote:  > L > If we can build a compelling business case then perhaps PeopleSoft will be > persuaded. [snip]   A *SIGH* What part of "Customers want it" do they find difficult to E understand? At this point, "compelling business case" is as simple as @ "HP-UX is not OpenVMS, and HP owns both". If HP goes in with theD attitude, "Alright, what will it take to make this happen?" I'm sureF we'll see it happen - but frankly, and this is admittedly "sentiment",E neither is likely: HP is not likely to do that, so it's not likely to  happen.   C Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is HP's ball - it's in  THEIR court, not ours.  G > Customer XYZ requires the PeopleSoft data server capability on VMS to N > support handling of 10,000 employees (~100GB) doing 500 transactions per dayN > but being able to handle 100 transactions in the busiest hour with <2 secondL > response time to certain transactions while certain batch jobs are runningN > concurrently.  Furthermore the system must be 99.99% uptime guaranteed (withL > penalties) highly available (no single point of failure) between 9:00 a.m. > and 5:00 p.m. EST.    5 Make that 00:00:00.00 and 23:59:59.99, any time zone.   7 > Besides initial licenses costs and consulting fees of K > $X, Customer XYZ is willing to spend $X/year (for 5 years (with option to K > renew at a mutually agreeable price for another 5 years beyond that)) for L > on-going remedial and new feature development support from PeopleSoft.  IfM > PeopleSoft does not meet these requirements then Customer XYZ plans to take , > their business to a competitor, e.g. Ross.  F Wow! I thought Ross threw in the VMS towel AGES ago! Then again, theirF prices were outlandish 16 years ago. They must absolutely astronomicalE by now (certainly not "affordable" to any but the Fortune 5, easily).   G That aside, the vendor needs to remember the "golden rule": the guy who G has the gold (i.e., the *CUSTOMER*) makes the rules. ...or, as a former E colleague of mine once said, it's the "Law of Supply and Demand": the H customer demands it, so you supply it - that's how you stay in business.G ...and of course, the one *NO ONE* should need to be told anymore, "The 2 customer is *ALWAYS* right, even when he's wrong!"  L > Please be as specific as possible.  Please forward this to anyone else you8 > know that might not follow comp.os.vms as appropriate.  > There appears to be a current movement in the industry back to< centralization. I believe the current buzz-phrase is "server7 consolidation". You'll find references on HP's website.   F In our case, the hospital uses PeopleSoft as it's core HR app. It alsoD uses Cerner PowerChart as it's core medical records app. Needless toE say, the back end servers are Galaxy-Class Alphas running OpenVMS and  Oracle.   B It shouldn't be too hard for the sales critters to put two and twoF together and present a scenario that *ANY* such site - much less SAP -F would find interesting, especially if you can throw in some mention ofH Enterprise SANs on top of all that to show the consolidation part in the best light.   F "Specifics" that everyone keeps asking for assumes that a sales effortE is already in progress at a given prospective site. That is about the A only circumstance under which such "specific" information becomes D available, unless one chooses to breach a trust. Otherwise, it's allH pure speculation. Companies keep their IT cards rather close to the vestH these days, especially where OpenVMS is concerned (witness: the repeatedB calls for case studies, success stories, etc. and the closed-mouthB response those pleas tend to draw). It may just be a desire to notF appear stupid or to not bring the Gates Police down on them - I really> don't understand it, but it's real, and we gotta deal with it.  D Still, without OpenVMS Mgt.'s buy-in, it's all just pissing into theG wind. Without a public statement of direction (with teeth in it to keep F them from reneging on it, yet again) from OpenVMS Mgt., efforts on our+ part are just another exercise in futility.   D This is something that HP's gotta negotiate with PeopleSoft. Get theD sales critters out there to gather the specifics - that's their job.H Supervise them personally where necessary to make sure they're promoting7 PeopleSoft on OpenVMS and not Micro$lop or even Linux.    ; We're the techies - that's OUR job (some of us were OpenVMS = entrepreneurs until Compaq put kibosh on us good and proper).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:15:26 GMT / From: "Scott Fisher" <scott.fisher@remmele.com>  Subject: Re: powerterm and XP < Message-ID: <2RDq9.1418$WV3.1307@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>  D We are using PowerTerm purchased from Ericom software (who wrote theL powerterm in PW32).  However, I understand that PowerTerm in Pathworks worksL fine with XP (although we might have select the compatibility with NT option on properties).    scott    Scott.Fisher@Remmele.com  8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message7 news:CK1q9.25635$m92.5367800@news1.news.adelphia.net...  > Antony Wardle wrote:7 > > Anyone got a version of powerterm that works on XP?  > >  > > my 5.4 version doesn't.  > > 9 > > Im using something called putty which seems to be ok. 6 > > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ > B > I am crossposting this to the Pathworks group, as PowerTerm is a > component of Pathworks 32. >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:58:53 -0700 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: powerterm and XP 0 Message-ID: <01C27381.9CB26E70@sulfer.icius.com>  D FWIW, I like TeraTerm. It's freeware, it has file transfer built in,D configurable keyboard (it actually understands my LK450-AA properly,G after a few minutes' tweaking) and its cut-and-paste works the same way . as (and works with) x-windows under eXcursion.  ( A quick search on Winfiles will find it.   Shane    -----Original Message-----4 From: Scott Fisher [mailto:scott.fisher@remmele.com]' Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 11:15 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: powerterm and XP     D We are using PowerTerm purchased from Ericom software (who wrote theF powerterm in PW32).  However, I understand that PowerTerm in Pathworks works E fine with XP (although we might have select the compatibility with NT  option on properties).    scott    Scott.Fisher@Remmele.com  8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message7 news:CK1q9.25635$m92.5367800@news1.news.adelphia.net...  > Antony Wardle wrote:7 > > Anyone got a version of powerterm that works on XP?  > >  > > my 5.4 version doesn't.  > > 9 > > Im using something called putty which seems to be ok. 6 > > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ > B > I am crossposting this to the Pathworks group, as PowerTerm is a > component of Pathworks 32. >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:00:32 -0400 5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com>  Subject: Re: powerterm and XP / Message-ID: <uqmq5i1vuiee0b@corp.supernews.com>   J In the session I did last week at HPETS, I had a slide that said PATHWORKSK 32 V7.3 submitted to manufacturing on Sep. 25, and, should be shipping (and H orderable) in October.  There is nothing on the web site, yet, but, that> doesn't mean it can't be purchased, or that it isn't shipping.   Antony Wardle wrote:7 > > Anyone got a version of powerterm that works on XP?  > >  > > my 5.4 version doesn't.  > > 9 > > Im using something called putty which seems to be ok. 6 > > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:13:04 +0100 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> 9 Subject: Re: Problem copying large files from VMS to Unix & Message-ID: <3DAB4170.4000305@iee.org>   John Nebel wrote:  > H > It appears to work with wu-ftp on DU 4.0g, TCP/IP 5.1 on VMS 7.2-2.  I > just tested this VMS to DU.   D Sadly I don't have the root password for the DU box, so I cannot tryC for a few more days (then I'm back in the office and can break in). A I did try wu-ftp on Solaris and had no luck. I did manage to bash : a large file onto Solaris from another SOlaris box, so I'm7 not convinced that the problem lies on the Solaris end.   = Once I break into the DU box I'll see if I can add DECnet and ! maybe that will solve my problem.    Antonio    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:53:32 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAX 6 Message-ID: <1021014234137.56459A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ' On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Bob Knowles wrote:    > Alan E. Feldman wrote:J > > Hey, another plural of VAX is "VAX systems". That's what the docs say,C > > I believe. And no one can say it's wrong! Well, one can say it,  > > but....  >  > <historical_note> L > And the docs say it because there was a directive from the Digital (at theK > time) legal folks to the effect that a trademark was easier to protect if 0 > the owner never used it as a stand-alone noun. > </historical_note> > -- > bob.know1es@hp.com' > (non-spammers should make the 1 an L)   > I remember once seeing a letter to the editor in some computerH magazine, possibly IEEE Computer, from the head counsel for MacDonald's.E He said that the magazine had recently run an ad for itself (or maybe E for a sister publication) that compared the cost of a subscription to D the cost of so many Big Macs and a small Coke.  Apparently there wasD a picture or drawing of something that resembled the big yellow "M".  F The lawyer said the golden arches logo was a trademark of McDogfood's,A as was the name Big Mac, and that they did not serve small cokes, A only medium and large, and that the correct plural of Big Mac was @ not "Big Macs", but "Big Mac hamburger sandwiches", and to cease  and desist from running the ads.  A The editor's reply was "Have it your way, Mr. Smith".  (For those @ not up on U.S. advertising trivia, this was Burger Kings' slogan
 at the time.)   @ (I guess since he wasn't Coca Cola's lawyer, he didn't object to> the use of "Coke", which by the way is a counterexample to the, "don't use it as a standalone noun" theory.)   --   John Santos    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:03:28 +0930 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> 5 Subject: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (fixed yet?) 3 Message-ID: <aofkl9$42l$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>   E Back in March this year I initiated a thread about sharing listening  % sockets under Compaq TCP/IP Services.   M > http://groups.google.com/groups?&threadm=3C9A6DE9.1040502%40wasd.vsm.com.au 7 It concluded that there was a problem in the BG driver.   J > http://groups.google.com/groups?&selm=3C9A6DE9.1040502%40wasd.vsm.com.au  J I have been watching the TCP/IP releases and ECOs since but have not been < able to find any reference to this issue.  Have I missed it?   TIA.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:29:43 GMT ! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz 0 Subject: Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.& Message-ID: <3dab60a7.2926580299@news>  3 On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:05 +0100, Andrew Robinson  <arobinson@hspg.com> wrote:    >Please could you help? B First question - did you upgrade TCPIP as part of the VMS Upgrade?E If you went to TCPIP 5.3 then I'd strongly recommend adding the TCPIP  5.3 ECO 1 Patch.? Part of that patch does cover a problem with Telnet negotiating  connection to a PC.      > K >I upgraded two ES40's (DE600's) at the weekend to OVMS7.3-1 from OVMS7.2-1 G >everything went well until I tried to connect to the boxes via Telnet, G >DECNET IV worked fine. I had an ~ 2 minute delay on the telnet which I L >believe is some sort of Reverse DNS lookup problem. To test this I added my6 >PC into the local Host table and it worked perfectly.L >How do I stop this behaviour, I've had to reverse the upgrade, and drop theK >7.2-1 disk back in, so please could someone help me with the correct steps I >next time. I've only got a small time window to do the upgrade in and be ! >completely happy it's gone well. E >As a side note : The FTP login delay due the reverse DNS problem had K >vanished, so it appeared that the lookup had gone from FTP to TELNET which  >worried me.M >I do have the upgraded disk at 7.3-1 which I can plug in and check parameter  >files if required.  > K >I realise this is a purely Technical question with no political overtones, K >so won't get through many people's Killfile, but if you could help I would  >be most grateful. >  >Regards >  >Andrew Robinson8 >Battling to keep OVMS in at least one small UK company.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:11:38 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> 0 Subject: Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.( Message-ID: <3DAB6B4A.2000603@rdrop.com>  " rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote:6  > On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:05 +0100, Andrew Robinson  > <arobinson@hspg.com> wrote:  >  >  >> Please could you help?  >E  > First question - did you upgrade TCPIP as part of the VMS Upgrade? B  > If you went to TCPIP 5.3 then I'd strongly recommend adding theF  > TCPIP 5.3 ECO 1 Patch. Part of that patch does cover a problem with)  > Telnet negotiating connection to a PC.   G Ur?  I recall a similar issue with TCPIP 5.0 or summat, where the host  A refused to actually _negotiate_ at least some telnet options.  I  D remember it because my software wants to turn 'em off, and the host  refused. :-(   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:57:56 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.J Message-ID: <rdeininger-1410022157560001@1cust35.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  
 In articleI <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E9AF@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>, Andrew $ Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> wrote:   >Please could you help?  > K >I upgraded two ES40's (DE600's) at the weekend to OVMS7.3-1 from OVMS7.2-1 G >everything went well until I tried to connect to the boxes via Telnet, G >DECNET IV worked fine. I had an ~ 2 minute delay on the telnet which I L >believe is some sort of Reverse DNS lookup problem. To test this I added my6 >PC into the local Host table and it worked perfectly.L >How do I stop this behaviour, I've had to reverse the upgrade, and drop theK >7.2-1 disk back in, so please could someone help me with the correct steps I >next time. I've only got a small time window to do the upgrade in and be ! >completely happy it's gone well. E >As a side note : The FTP login delay due the reverse DNS problem had K >vanished, so it appeared that the lookup had gone from FTP to TELNET which  >worried me.M >I do have the upgraded disk at 7.3-1 which I can plug in and check parameter  >files if required.   E Are the network settings for the DE600s correct?  If you upgraded the D console firmware about the same time you upgraded VMS, your ethernetJ settings may have been changed.  On several platforms, the latest firmwareH upgrade changes the _default_ ethernet settings, so if you never set theA Exy0_MODE environment variable, you may be running with different J speed/duplex settings.  This can result in a network connection that seemsH to work under light loads, but drops most (or all) of the packets on the floor at other times.    $ LANCP :== $LANCP $ LANCP ' LANCP> SHOW DEVICE/CHARACTERISTICS EWA0 * (Substitute your device name(s) for EWA0.)  F Check that the speed, media, and duplex setting match the rest of yourB local network.  You can use the LANCP SET DEVICE command to changeC settings without rebooting, but you should also set the appropriate & environmental variable in the console.  F This firmware change was documented in the release notes, but it seemsE very few people can read these days.  I've seen about a dozen systems 8 caught by this change.  IMHO, the change was a bad idea.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:43:55 -0400  From: "LMcC" <sorry@nospam> L Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266.../ Message-ID: <uqm7jsd9m6el8f@corp.supernews.com>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DA790D1.BE1FB410@fsi.net... 8 > O.k. I'm gonna go a little further out on this limb... > F > In my seminar I gave this past Monday at HPETS, I repeated somethingJ > that I'm pretty sure I heard from Steve Hoffman in a non-NDA session. It > goes something like this:  > J > Make sure your SYSTARTUP_VMS or something else is not causing the system8 > startup sequence to terminate prematurely. Here's why: > J > Until a SET LOGINS/INTERACTIVE=value is executed, the Job Controller hasF > a flag set in one of its data structures that tells it not to createI > interactive processes (not sure about batch, network, etc.). So, if you D > were to, say "$ EOJ" or cause a fatal error during SYSTARTUP_VMS(,J > SYLOGICALS, etc.,) the SET LOGINS/INTER=value command (which is found inJ > a later STARTUP phase) will never execute. Hence, no interactive logins,B > regardless of OPER because JBC won't $CREPRC, not even at OPA0:. > J > If the install/upgrade leaves the system in the state you indicated (youJ > *ARE* at the console, right?), then CTRL+P and do a conversational boot: >  > >>> b -fl 0,1  > & > ..., then perform a minimal startup: >   > SYSBOOT>  SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" >   > SYSBOOT>  SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 >  > SYSBOOT>  CONT > J > ...and see how that goes. It should let you log in because it won't even  H Woohoo!  This gave me a username prompt.  I logged in and I'm at the DCL prompt.     G > On the other hand, if you *ARE* using a keyboard into the back of thes2 > machine and a SVGA monitor (and a mouse?), then: >s > >>> show console > C > ...should come back and say "graphics". If not, set that instead:e >  > >>> set console graphics   Yes, this is the setup I have.  1 So now I should set the logins/interactive thing?   G I do have a license for DECwindows but I'm not married to using it if IoI don't need to.  All I wanna do is run the old Wordperfect on it to see if  it's usable.  H I'm not sure what all things I need to install...I have several discs of  stuff from Compaq and Digital...  B I reckon now that I'm past the stupid hangup screen I should studyI some....Thanks to everyone who jumped in on this.  I'm further now than IU- was 3 days ago -and that's a good thing.  ;o)i   Leeh   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 02 23:39:07 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)tL Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266...) Message-ID: <xe1$tGyamIxo@elias.decus.ch>t  M In article <uqm7jsd9m6el8f@corp.supernews.com>, "LMcC" <sorry@nospam> writes:x >  >>K >> Make sure your SYSTARTUP_VMS or something else is not causing the systems9 >> startup sequence to terminate prematurely. Here's why:s >>K >> Until a SET LOGINS/INTERACTIVE=value is executed, the Job Controller hastG >> a flag set in one of its data structures that tells it not to create  >> >> >>> b -fl 0,1 >>' >> ..., then perform a minimal startup:  >>! >> SYSBOOT>  SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"e >>! >> SYSBOOT>  SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0d >> >> SYSBOOT>  CONTa >>K >> ...and see how that goes. It should let you log in because it won't even  > J > Woohoo!  This gave me a username prompt.  I logged in and I'm at the DCL	 > prompt.- >-  D In that case I would guess that the ADA error that was displayed was3 causing the startup procedures to fail prematurely.c   At the simplest level, putting    
 $ SET NOON  C at the top of SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM may cure that, althoughm" it may be more complex than that.  > H >> On the other hand, if you *ARE* using a keyboard into the back of the3 >> machine and a SVGA monitor (and a mouse?), then:9 >> >> >>> show console  >>D >> ...should come back and say "graphics". If not, set that instead: >> >> >>> set console graphicso >   > Yes, this is the setup I have. > 3 > So now I should set the logins/interactive thing?t > I > I do have a license for DECwindows but I'm not married to using it if IlK > don't need to.  All I wanna do is run the old Wordperfect on it to see ifd > it's usable. > J > I'm not sure what all things I need to install...I have several discs of" > stuff from Compaq and Digital... > D > I reckon now that I'm past the stupid hangup screen I should studyK > some....Thanks to everyone who jumped in on this.  I'm further now than Id/ > was 3 days ago -and that's a good thing.  ;o)s >  >  -- r
 Paul Sture Switzerlandd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:28:51 -0400t  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>L Subject: Re: Trying to install OVMS 7.0 on Digital Alphaserver 1000 4/266.../ Message-ID: <1021015002208.56459B@Ives.egh.com>s    On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, LMcC wrote:  D > Hre's some more results and, wherever I could see them, some error
 > messages...o > N > Already have 7.2 running on our real network - Whole point of this excerciseJ > is that when we upgraded to 7.2 (or was it 7.3?  I dunno - it's somebodyL > else's job) several people in the company lost access to their WordperfectK > (v5) files that had been created on the old OVMS7.0 system.  Can't figureoJ > out why - the files just no longer open correctly - they seem to fail toL > convert to anything other than gibberish and a little bit of text that canD > sometimes be read between all the gibberish. (gibberish=same kindaM > characters that you might see if you tried to open a binary picture file inlI > Notepad).  So we dug this old Alpha out of the graveyard and figured weeK > could load VMS7.0 on it so we could then run WP for Alpha on it and maybelL > convert the files to something usable. (WP worked fine on the original 7.0
 > system).  F I use WP5.1 (and 7) on VMS V7.2-1 and V7.3 (both VAX and Alpha) and itE seems to work fine.  User mode apps (such as WordPerfect) should have H no problem.  Maybe someone copied the files some strange way and trashedG the attributes?  They seem to be sequential fixed 128 byte records withn NO implicit carriage control.e     --   John Santos0 Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:25:17 +0200 8 From: Arne =?windows-1252?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelst) Message-ID: <3DAB0C0D.5040309@vajhoej.dk>t   Tom Linden wrote:/  6 > I suspect Johan was looking for a portable solution?  	 Possible.p   But portable to what ?  8 The number of operating systems that supports SYS$QIO(W) is rather limited !    :-)s   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:57:18 -0700p# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>,7 Subject: RE: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEHFFOAA.tom@kednos.com>i  	 My error.a   >-----Original Message-----s+ >From: Arne Vajhj [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk]i( >Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 11:25 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 >Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels >  >  >Tom Linden wrote: >b7 >> I suspect Johan was looking for a portable solution?r >l
 >Possible. >P >But portable to what ?o >m9 >The number of operating systems that supports SYS$QIO(W)  >is rather limited ! >  >:-) >m >Arnel >" >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.c; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).nA >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002d >  ---h& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 14:24:51 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e7 Subject: RE: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelso3 Message-ID: <dDSf2KkOdi05@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEHCFOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:a6 > I suspect Johan was looking for a portable solution?  -    A portable call to QIO?  Portable to what?e   >> >>Johan Nilsson wrote: >>F >>> programming question: Is it possible to get the underlying VMS I/OI >>> channel no from an UNIX style file descriptor? I'd like to be able to E >>> use open() to get valid file descriptor, and then use QIO for I/O  >>> operations on these files.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 16:54:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelsu3 Message-ID: <gRYytUBxacuI@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  d In article <3DAB0C0D.5040309@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?windows-1252?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Tom Linden wrote:t > 7 >> I suspect Johan was looking for a portable solution?l >  > Possible.d >  > But portable to what ? > : > The number of operating systems that supports SYS$QIO(W) > is rather limited !c   	VAX/VMS 	VMS 	OpenVMS 	OpenVMS VAX 	OpenVMS Alpha 	SEVMS 	Digital OpenVMS 	Compaq OpenVMSI 	HP OpenVMSe   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:17:28 +0200e6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelsi' Message-ID: <3DABA4E8.60201@vajhoej.dk>7   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  f > In article <3DAB0C0D.5040309@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?windows-1252?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >>Tom Linden wrote: 7 >>>I suspect Johan was looking for a portable solution?a     >>Possible.P >> >>But portable to what ? >>: >>The number of operating systems that supports SYS$QIO(W) >>is rather limited !m    
 > 	VAX/VMS > 	VMS
 > 	OpenVMS > 	OpenVMS VAX > 	OpenVMS Alpha > 	SEVMS > 	Digital OpenVMS > 	Compaq OpenVMS.
 > 	HP OpenVMSm     :-)t   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:43:05 -0400e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: V7.3-1 J Message-ID: <rdeininger-1410022143050001@1cust35.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  O In article <uqg709rku4di4f@news.supernews.com>, "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> wrote:   7 >Anyone got a complete copy they want to sell or trade?v  E HP certainly has several extra copies of the V7.3-1 kit they would be 9 happy to sell.  Have you priced it?  Is it too expensive?b   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:47:12 GMTe! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nzwE Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 tp_server (decdtm) startup and sys$node_fullnameb& Message-ID: <3dab64e0.2927661214@news>  E On 14 Oct 2002 05:29:14 -0700, vankirk@decision.quest.gr (Stewart Van1 Kirk) wrote:  E >We recently upgraded our system from VMS 7.1, DECNET Phase IV to 7.3j >and DECNET Plus.  >aD >After the upgrade, TP_SERVER doesn't start.  To start TP_SERVER, we9 >had to set the system logical, SYS$NODE_FULLNAME and run F >sys$startup:decdtm$startup either from DCL or in a COM file.  Now, inC >7.1, we didn't have to do this; in fact, neither the definition ofiG >SYS$NODE_FULLNAME existed in sylogicals.com nor did the aforementionedl@ >startup call existed in systartup_vms.com.  We also checked the+ >system$(nodename).lm$journal and it is OK. + >The SYS$DECDTM_INHIBIT logical is not set.i >s >What we want to know is:n, >1. Have we missed some blatant setup issue?< >2. Is it acceptable to just place the logical definition inG >sylogicals.com and the decdtm startup command in systartup_vms.com andi >be done with it?d >" >Thankso  = This seems to indicate a mis-configuration of DECNet Phase V.u  6 You might want to redo or check the DECNet OSI Config.   From the DECDTM Startup file:    $FULLNAME =dD "''F$TRNLNM("SYS$NODE_FULLNAME","LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE",,"EXECUTIVE")'" - "::" $IF FULLNAME.EQS.""T $THENWD $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "%DECdtm-F-NODECnet, the TP_SERVER process was not started because either:" $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""F $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "o  DECnet-Plus is not started or is not configured, or"  $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""? $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "o  The SYS$NODE_FULLNAME logical name is nota defined" $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""> $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "   This could be because when you installed DECnet-Plus and were prompted "sA $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "   for the system's full name, you specified am local name instead of a "o- $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "   DECdns or Domain name."  $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""E $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "If you want to use DECdtm services, make sure thate DECnet-Plus is started and "D $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "configured and that SYS$NODE_FULLNAME is defined, then use the following "; $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "command to start the TP_SERVER process:"S $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""9 $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "    $ @SYS$STARTUP:DECDTM$STARTUP.COM"e $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2002 13:04:09 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)* Subject: Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210141204.6cc57f47@posting.google.com>h  N Everhart <ge@gce.com> wrote in message news:<ao9g0n$o0f$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...* > Offline because it is a template device.B > Mounted because an ACP is associated with it. Evidently you have9 > a print spooler, LAT, or some such software associated.e  E But how can it be "mounted" when it's offline? IOW, just what does itl@ mean, then, to be "offline"; just what does it mean, then, to beE "mounted"? Back in the 9-track days, if a tape drive was offline, you>E couldn't mount it. You'd have to press the online button on the driveOB first. ("Volume is not software enabled" comes to mind!) So what's going on here?  F BTW, I do have LATACP running, but SH DEV LTA0/FULL doesn't show it as you can see below.  @ Also, is there somewhere that all these odd devices, like EZA0:,E NOA0:, PKA0:, etc., are documented? I've never run across them in therF docs (except for NLA0: which is mentioned under SPAWN and maybe one orF two other random places). And I do know that NLA0: is the null device.
 Thanks again.s   Disclaimer JMHO, Alan E. Feldmano   >  >  >  > Paul Sture wrote: r > > In article <b096a4ee.0210110833.104f1d40@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > > H > >>How can LTA0: be mounted when it's offline? What does it mean? (It's. > >>not a problem; I'm just curious about it.) > >> > >>$ SH DEV LTo > >>  2 > >>Device                  Device           Error2 > >> Name                   Status           Count2 > >>LTA0:                   Offline mounted      02 > >>LTA1:                   Online               0 > >> > >>$ SH DEV LTA0/FULa > >> l= > >>Terminal LTA0:, device type unknown, is offline, mounted,p > >>record-oriented-< > >>    device, carriage control, device is a template only. > >>  J > >>    Error count                    0    Operations completed           > >>       0J > >>    Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      > >>[SYSTEM]A > >>    Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot               > >>S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W J > >>    Reference count                0    Default buffer size            > >>      80 > >>D > >>VAX/VMS v6.1; v6.2 also shows "Offline mounted" for this device. > >> > >  > > I > > As it says, it is simply a template, used when creating real devices.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:28:43 -0400n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?J Message-ID: <rdeininger-1410022228430001@1cust35.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  = In article <b096a4ee.0210141204.6cc57f47@posting.google.com>,a/ spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:i  A >Also, is there somewhere that all these odd devices, like EZA0:,iF >NOA0:, PKA0:, etc., are documented? I've never run across them in theG >docs (except for NLA0: which is mentioned under SPAWN and maybe one ormG >two other random places). And I do know that NLA0: is the null device.t >Thanks again.  D I don't know of a manual that documents them all.  You can sometimesD extract clues by searching SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$CONFIG.DAT for the first 2D letters of the device name, and looking at the nearby lines of text.  E Once you know what _kind_ of device it is, the device support manuals0* often detail the supported QIO operations.   EZA0: is an ethernet device.L PKA0: is a SCSI adapter.  It's part of the I/O path for DKA and MKA devices.  H Never heard of NOA0:.  Maybe that's the device that NOAA uses to control+ the weather.  Is it a template device?  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:13:38 -0700a  From: Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!8 Message-ID: <7agmqu09khuho1ocrq4ocm51uq1e51q1j8@4ax.com>  E Having just come back from HPETS, HP reports that they will sell themtF until 2006 and support them until 2011.  VMS is expected to be out for the Itanium by Q3-'03.  3 Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:o   >See:e >r- >  http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-961495.html  >IF >  "HP still sells Alpha servers but plans to phase them out by 2004." >p8 >Now, sometimes I'm a sucker so *I'M* willing to believe? >this is not true based on what I've read here, (heck, I stayedd9 >with DEC *LONG* after I knew *IT* was dead), but here ite- >is again in print (or at least "in pixels"):i >a( >  "AlpaServers are dead, REAL SOON NOW.. >   Quite possibly long before the VMS port to# >   Itanic is functionally useful."a > A >Do you suppose the people who sign Capital Purchase Requisitions.= >read more of ZDNet or C.O.V. ? Do you suppose they care that 9 >VMS is being ported to Itanic? Do you suppose they know?  >  >AtlantX >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:46:26 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>), Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!' Message-ID: <3DAB8182.CABD78BD@fsi.net>   
 Jon wrote: > G > Having just come back from HPETS, HP reports that they will sell themeH > until 2006 and support them until 2011.  VMS is expected to be out for > the Itanium by Q3-'03.  G ...and production-quality, ready-for-prime-time Itanics will be out ...l when?w   -- i David J. Dachtera" dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:26:22 -0400u* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!6 Message-ID: <G9GdnYsxtoUm4TagXTWcpA@News.GigaNews.Com>  - "Jon" <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> wrote in message 2 news:7agmqu09khuho1ocrq4ocm51uq1e51q1j8@4ax.com...G > Having just come back from HPETS, HP reports that they will sell themi) > until 2006 and support them until 2011.   G We already knew that, as Atlant mentioned.  The problem is that  a) thetF press obviously got the message screwed up (interpreting 'no new AlphaF development after 2004' to mean 'phased out in 2004') and  b) HPaq, asG usual, doesn't seem likely to lift a finger to set the record straight.o     VMS is expected to be out forr > the Itanium by Q3-'03.  E Not unless things have changed *a lot* since last report:  the 'real'ML (though IIRC still not 100% complete) release was pegged at around mid-2004,I with only a very limited subset for 'early adopters' (I think that mostlySD means ISVs who need some advance software to work with for their ownK products) any time in 2003.  And if one can trust Terry's latest article intE The Inquirer VMS may be a bit behind even that schedule, since he nowtL projects the 'first boot' date as late December (rats - I think my own guess was right about now).u   - bill   >h5 > Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:l >  > >See:e > >b/ > >  http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-961495.htmli > >oH > >  "HP still sells Alpha servers but plans to phase them out by 2004." > >e: > >Now, sometimes I'm a sucker so *I'M* willing to believeA > >this is not true based on what I've read here, (heck, I stayedo; > >with DEC *LONG* after I knew *IT* was dead), but here itr/ > >is again in print (or at least "in pixels"):t > > * > >  "AlpaServers are dead, REAL SOON NOW.0 > >   Quite possibly long before the VMS port to% > >   Itanic is functionally useful."n > >oC > >Do you suppose the people who sign Capital Purchase Requisitions ? > >read more of ZDNet or C.O.V. ? Do you suppose they care that ; > >VMS is being ported to Itanic? Do you suppose they know?  > >s	 > >Atlantn > >t >'   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:59:44 -0400h& From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!< Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014225155.04ecfdf8@pop.rcn.com>  2 At 10:26 PM 10/14/2002 -0400, you wrote (in part):  ! >   VMS is expected to be out forp > > the Itanium by Q3-'03. > F >Not unless things have changed *a lot* since last report:  the 'real'M >(though IIRC still not 100% complete) release was pegged at around mid-2004,dJ >with only a very limited subset for 'early adopters' (I think that mostlyE >means ISVs who need some advance software to work with for their ownuL >products) any time in 2003.  And if one can trust Terry's latest article inF >The Inquirer VMS may be a bit behind even that schedule, since he nowM >projects the 'first boot' date as late December (rats - I think my own guessw >was right about now).  H Instead of trying to remember what you thought you heard last year, why - don't you go to the HP Roadmaps for the port  L <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm>. Slide  4 has the schedule.d  9 First boot is expected around December 20th of this year.iF First ship to early adopters is targeted for early 2003. (version 8.0)9 Second ship to early adopters later in 2003 (version 8.1) G First production release is targeted for early 2004 (version 8.2, this c* version will ship for Alpha and VAX also).  B This was talked about in depth at HPETS2002 last week. Instead of G speculating on hearsay and rumor, the symposium last week was the best -: place to get progress reports directly from the engineers.   Kent   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:54:21 -07000& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!/ Message-ID: <uqn0rk3etbr4e7@corp.supernews.com>n   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Jon wrote: > G >>Having just come back from HPETS, HP reports that they will sell them H >>until 2006 and support them until 2011.  VMS is expected to be out for >>the Itanium by Q3-'03. >  > I > ...and production-quality, ready-for-prime-time Itanics will be out ...o > when?0  D I've got one right in front of me - a zx2000 workstation running Red
 Hat Linux.   -- P
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:40:02 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> , Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!' Message-ID: <3DAB8E12.2BA8641F@fsi.net>h   Greg Cagle wrote:h >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Jon wrote: > > I > >>Having just come back from HPETS, HP reports that they will sell themrJ > >>until 2006 and support them until 2011.  VMS is expected to be out for > >>the Itanium by Q3-'03. > >  > >iK > > ...and production-quality, ready-for-prime-time Itanics will be out ...e	 > > when?s > F > I've got one right in front of me - a zx2000 workstation running Red > Hat Linux.  F Is this a Galaxy-Class machine? How many pairs of CPUs total? How manyD OpenVMS instances are you running? How many Oracle instances in eachA OpenVMS instance? How many terabytes of storage? How many tens ofMF gigabytes of RAM? How many hundreds of megabytes of shared memory? How( many fibre-channel cards in the PCI bus?  ( I did say "ready-for-prime-time", right?   -- T David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:51:50 -0400i* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!6 Message-ID: <GYucnSMoSvNeDTagXTWc3Q@News.GigaNews.Com>  3 "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com> wrote in message/6 news:5.1.0.14.2.20021014225155.04ecfdf8@pop.rcn.com...4 > At 10:26 PM 10/14/2002 -0400, you wrote (in part): > # > >   VMS is expected to be out fori > > > the Itanium by Q3-'03. > >cH > >Not unless things have changed *a lot* since last report:  the 'real'E > >(though IIRC still not 100% complete) release was pegged at around0	 mid-2004,.L > >with only a very limited subset for 'early adopters' (I think that mostlyG > >means ISVs who need some advance software to work with for their own'K > >products) any time in 2003.  And if one can trust Terry's latest article  inH > >The Inquirer VMS may be a bit behind even that schedule, since he nowI > >projects the 'first boot' date as late December (rats - I think my ownn guesse > >was right about now). >fI > Instead of trying to remember what you thought you heard last year, why-. > don't you go to the HP Roadmaps for the port  @ Because, as usual, what I remember reflects reality rather well.  G > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm>.e Slideo > 4 has the schedule.0 >B; > First boot is expected around December 20th of this year.hH > First ship to early adopters is targeted for early 2003. (version 8.0); > Second ship to early adopters later in 2003 (version 8.1) H > First production release is targeted for early 2004 (version 8.2, this, > version will ship for Alpha and VAX also).  H Exactly what part of the difference between 'ship to early adopters' and9 'production release' do you find difficult to understand?l  K FYI, Marvel is already in the hands of 'early adopters'.  That doesn't make  it a released product.  I By the way, the actual (production) release, which introduces small itemsmE like most of the VMS middleware that serious operations require, fulltE clustering support, volume shadowing, availability manager..., is notaJ scheduled for 'early 2004' but for 'H1CY2004' (you really shouldn't try toH read more into ppt slide graphs than they were designed to convey - evenI though in some cases I suspect that they were in fact designed to misleada4 the gullible while retaining plausible deniability).   >hC > This was talked about in depth at HPETS2002 last week. Instead ofoH > speculating on hearsay and rumor, the symposium last week was the best< > place to get progress reports directly from the engineers.  ; That's nice.  Too bad you didn't understand what you heard.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:11:46 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!I Message-ID: <6AMq9.212768$q41.79283@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   - "Jon" <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> wrote in message-2 news:7agmqu09khuho1ocrq4ocm51uq1e51q1j8@4ax.com...G > Having just come back from HPETS, HP reports that they will sell themPH > until 2006 and support them until 2011.  VMS is expected to be out for > the Itanium by Q3-'03. >k  J FTC requires 'support' for 5 years after phase out date. In most cases allH this means is they have a box of spare parts (all manufactured  prior toJ phase-out date) that they can rummage through for you if something breaks.H That's it. Don't expect anything more than that from HP once Alpha's and1 systems based on them are no longer manufactured.T   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:17:54 -0400e* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>P Subject: Re: [OT] The Mill clock tower, was: Re: Judge: Itanium Violates Patents6 Message-ID: <5oKcnSfG9NjShTagXTWcpQ@News.GigaNews.Com>  G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote inO5 message news:BKiHtMsm$4SQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...p   ...w  = > There is a guided tour of the inside of the clock tower at:a >T: > http://web.maynard.ma.us/history/millclocktour/index.htm   Thanks - that was neat.a   ...h  A > So how many of you have actually been to the top of the clock ?i  L Not me, I'm sorry to say.  It may have been locked off back when I was firstE a Millrat 26 years ago.  But I do recall visiting the water wheel andlG generator far below that used to power it (IIRC the generator was stilliL functional back then, with a small light attached to prove it).  And the fanI graveyard in the 4-6 attic (though that was of less historical interest).sL And the bottom-level tunnels (well, they felt like tunnels, arches and all).  H Despite my earlier comment, not all of the Mill's corridors were twisty.K One may have been long enough to exhaust a 300' magtape, though the wooden,nC lanolin-soaked floors were uneven and getting one to unroll without . intermediate boosts would have been difficult.   - bill   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.569 ************************