1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 15 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 570       Contents:. $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines Re: 'hobbyist' vms Re: 'hobbyist' vms% Re: Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ? ? Anyone else having problems with Carepaqs and hardware support? + Re: Are there TK50 images for VMS avalable?  CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP ( Re: Eliminating access logging from CSWS Re: Hobbyist kit Contents / RE: How hard is this for HP to do?  Clustering? 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 RE: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 RE: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!  Java performance on open VMS  Re: Java performance on open VMS  Re: Java performance on open VMS  RE: Java performance on open VMS Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re:  Life after VMS? RE: Life after VMS? 5 NYMLUG NY City Encompass meeting on SAN's 10/22 4-8pm  Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic+ Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL * RE: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  Re: PeopleSoft on VMS  RE: PeopleSoft on VMS 0 Re: Problem copying large files from VMS to UnixP Rdb Technical Forum in San Francisco - November 9&10 - seats still available ava RE: singular and plural of VAX" Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk?" Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk?" Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk?' Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. ' Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade. . Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels VMS 5.3 disk installation  Re: VMS 5.3 disk installation  Re: VMS 5.3 disk installation  Re: VMS 5.3 disk installation < Re: VMS 7.3 tp_server (decdtm) startup and sys$node_fullname Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption F Re: VMS New Release Schedule (was:  Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ?)) VMS System Mgr. position available in NJ. - Re: VMS System Mgr. position available in NJ. 3 Re: Why slow system when using logical search list? # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!  Re: [OT] The Mill clock tower   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 07:57:54 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)7 Subject: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines 3 Message-ID: <E$agPp00Nqxv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   J The DCL ECO just released for V7.3-1 includes the command $ recall/search.  @ Are there any plans to extend this to previous versions of VMS ?  G On a related note, are there any plans yet to extend DCL to add support 2 for editing lines longer than the terminal width ?   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:55:00 GMT + From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org> ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines < Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0210150752480.7650-100000@jaipur>  F I've heard it stated that this probably wouldn't happen any time soon.F Apparently the issue here is as much the terminal driver as it is DCL.F And by hearing the engineers grumble about the terminal driver code at7 HPETS, I'd say they won't be touching it any time soon.   $ On 15 Oct 2002, Simon Clubley wrote:  L > The DCL ECO just released for V7.3-1 includes the command $ recall/search. > B > Are there any plans to extend this to previous versions of VMS ? > I > On a related note, are there any plans yet to extend DCL to add support 4 > for editing lines longer than the terminal width ? >  > Simon. >  > --= > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP - > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:15:02 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines ; Message-ID: <01KNP9L9KN0G9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   H > I've heard it stated that this probably wouldn't happen any time soon.  % So have I (here in previous threads).   H > Apparently the issue here is as much the terminal driver as it is DCL.   Right.  H > And by hearing the engineers grumble about the terminal driver code at9 > HPETS, I'd say they won't be touching it any time soon.   - Again, heard before in previous threads here.   E IIRC, the NEWSRDR programme can do this.  It has a SPAWN command, so  . just fire it up and use that as your CLI.  :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 11:05:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines 3 Message-ID: <r+TC04NMJmxC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <01KNP9L9KN0G9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:   I >> And by hearing the engineers grumble about the terminal driver code at : >> HPETS, I'd say they won't be touching it any time soon. > / > Again, heard before in previous threads here.   A In St. Louis the same sort of grumble was expressed regarding DCL : changes.  A problem involving both must be quite daunting.  G > IIRC, the NEWSRDR programme can do this.  It has a SPAWN command, so  0 > just fire it up and use that as your CLI.  :-)  + So does BASH, as demonstrated in St. Louis.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:47:58 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines . Message-ID: <3DAC46BE.BA8F359C@mindspring.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  y > In article <01KNP9L9KN0G9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:  > K > >> And by hearing the engineers grumble about the terminal driver code at < > >> HPETS, I'd say they won't be touching it any time soon. > > 1 > > Again, heard before in previous threads here.  > C > In St. Louis the same sort of grumble was expressed regarding DCL < > changes.  A problem involving both must be quite daunting.  ) If the problem involves both the terminal % driver *AND* DCL, then one or both of - those components wasn't architected correctly / in the first place -- this functionality should ) live in one place or the other, not both.   ' And if you expect command completion to & ever work (Hey! Stop guffawing!), then- I suspect that this functionality should live , entirely within the shell, err, DCL, because, it's DCL that has (or has access to) all the% information needed to support command # completion, filename look-ups, etc.   ( But DCL requests have traditionally been' ignored by VMS since the very beginning ( so I wouldn't get my hopes up about this one getting getting-upon.    Atlant   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2002 09:59:34 EST4 From: byer@cartman.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) Subject: Re: 'hobbyist' vms 1 Message-ID: <cbdtXETnj8bT@cartman.ourservers.net>    > E >> > Can I download ts10 for vax-emulation under Linux somewhere too?  >>G >> Sorry I've never run any of these emulators myself. Hence I've never - >> needed to find out where to download them. I >> Hopefully someone else on comp.os.vms will be able to provide you with  >> the appropriate URLs. > $ > ftp://ftp.firesword7.net/pub/ts10/ >   H You can also try the SIMH freeware package which will currently build onA OpenVMS.  Currently the SIMH package has the following emulators.    	Data General Nova 	Data General Eclipse  	Digital Equipment PDP-1 	Digital Equipment PDP-4 	Digital Equipment PDP-7 	Digital Equipment PDP-9 	Digital Equipment PDP-10  	Digital Equipment PDP-11  	Digital Equipment PDP-15  	Digital Equipment VAX         IBM 1401	 	IBM 1620 
 	IBM System 3 	 	IBM 1130  	Hewlett-Packard HP-2100 	Honeywell H316  	MITS Altair 8800  	MITS Altair Z80! 	GRI Computer Corporation GRI-909   N Most of the simulators are stable and are still under development.  I have theO VAX simulator running OpenVMS just fine on my OpenVMS Alpha system as well as a ; PDP-11 simulator running RSX-11M for some old stuff I have.   + Try it out, compiles great and works great.    --    @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands acquire  |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:59:19 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: 'hobbyist' vms ' Message-ID: <aohe0p$ivq$1@lore.csc.com>   R On 15 Oct 2002 09:59:34 EST, Robert Alan Byer <byer@cartman.ourservers.net> wrote:  J > You can also try the SIMH freeware package which will currently build onC > OpenVMS.  Currently the SIMH package has the following emulators.  >  >        Data General Nova >        Data General Eclipse   >        Digital Equipment PDP-1	         . 	         . 	         . 8 So, I wondered, where can I find these? I found them at:  &         http://simh.trailing-edge.com/E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E David M. Smith 302.391.8533                   dsmit115 at csc dot com E Computer Sciences Corporation (Opinions are those of the writer only) E ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 05:50:51 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) . Subject: Re: Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ?= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0210150450.4da6c4f9@posting.google.com>   L Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3DA93B1A.7040806@home.nl>... > Patrick Young wrote: > L > >will put in a purchase for the future 7.4 source listings, but not 7.3-1,M > >as I have to justify the purchase to management at work. "Way out of date"  > >works, but "hobby" does not.  > > H > I don't think there will be a 7.4 version. There will be a 7.3-2 late 4 > next year, and from there it will be 8.x versions.  I I was not at HPETS as being on the other side of the world does not help, L so am probably very out of date regarding the up-to-the-month state of play,I and did believe 7.4 would be next? A google search shows information from = Hoff about 7.4 shipping the same time for both Alpha and VAX.   D Kudos to OpenVMS engineering for being able to do a port and a major! version update in this timeframe!   I BTW, I stuffed up _YET_ again on my previous post, it's the 19160 that is I the Window(tm) version, not the 39160 - will I ever get my failing memory H to deal with that fact? - probably not. Anyone tried a 19160 to see what happens anyway?    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 07:17:06 -0700$ From: svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth)H Subject: Anyone else having problems with Carepaqs and hardware support?< Message-ID: <5a85bce2.0210150617.3d77d0a@posting.google.com>   Hi:   ? Last Tuesday night in St. Louis (HPETS2002), I attended the "HP D Listens Executive Panel".  I stepped-up to the mic and described theC problems that I've had recently with logging hardware service calls > for Compaq hardware (ES40, HSG80) that is covered by Carepaqs.  D While describing my recent "challenges", I said "I can't be the onlyA one having problems with Carepaqs" and then paused for a second.  ? Quite a few people in the "hall" (ballroom/auditorium/whatever) 9 applauded to indicate their agreement with my statements.   D So, I now ask the denizens of comp.os.vms:  Is anyone else out thereD having problems with Carepaqs and hardware support?  The reason thatC I'm asking is that I am gathering 'evidence' to pass along to a new  contact that I have at HP.  > After the Exec Panel, I went up on the stage to talk with M.L.D Krakauer (the HP VP for Services).  While I was waiting to talk withF ML, a guy stepped onto the stage and introduced himself.  His name wasF "Bob Floyd" and he's responsible for the call centers in the Americas.E  I described my problems with Carepaqs to Bob (while ML listened) and . Bob said that he would look into these issues.  B When I returned from HPETS2002, I had a voicemail from someone whoA works for Bob.  I spoke with this person and described my Carepaq 2 woes.  I also have this gentleman's email address.  E If other folks have examples of Carepaq problems, please send them to C me and I'll forward them to the guy I spoke to at HP who is looking  into these matters.     B ML and Bob Floyd seemed genuinely concerned about the problems I'mD having with Carepaqs (especially after I mentioned these problems in& front of 500 people on Tuesday night).  E Email your Carepaq woes to me at my home email address.  svieth at wi  dot rr dot com.    Thanks much,
 -Scott :^)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:56:16 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> 4 Subject: Re: Are there TK50 images for VMS avalable?$ Message-ID: <3dac56f2$1@news.si.com>  0 >But be warned, it [a TK50] takes AGES to boot.   ? Nah.  TU58s are what take ages.  TK50s are zippy by comparison.  --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:37:01 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP; Message-ID: <01KNP7VV2IIC9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   H I recently unpacked an RDB .RBF file (created by RMU/BACKUP) from a VMS G BACKUP saveset.  Sizes are 2545200 and 11921805 blocks, respectively.   H Since the file I wanted was near the beginning of the saveset, after it G is "completely unpacked" (see below), VMS BACKUP continues to read the  H saveset, presumably to see if there is another file by that name in the C saveset.  From another session, I waited until DIR showed the same  G number of USED and ALLOCATED blocks then killed the VMS BACKUP command  C with CTRL-Y then typed EXIT.  The idea was to save resources---why  I should BACKUP continue to read the saveset (all 12 million blocks of it)  I when I already have the file I need?  However, the .RBF file appeared to  E be corrupt; RMU/RESTORE said it was not a valid backup file.  Trying  I again and letting the BACKUP command complete produced a valid RBF file;  5 killing it with CTRL-Y again produced a corrupt file.   D Since "you cannot use wildcard characters denoting latest version ofH files (;)" with BACK/SELECT, I don't see any way to tell BACKUP to stop  after it finds the first file.  I Is the only alternative to let BACKUP continue to read the saveset, even  + though my file appears to be already there?   E In my case, getting the file I wanted took perhaps 20 minutes and it  D took perhaps an hour to read the whole saveset.  However, suppose I E needed a very small file from the beginning of the saveset, which is  I there after a few seconds, and suppose the saveset were much larger.  Do  A I really have to read for hours after retrieving a file in a few   seconds?  G Apparently, the file whose size doesn't appear to change is changed in  H some other way towards the end of the execution of the BACKUP command.  F Does anyone know how and whether I can do this by hand, so that I can H break off the BACKUP command (to save resources) and still have a valid  SELECTed file?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:37:09 GMT + From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> 1 Subject: Re: Eliminating access logging from CSWS 2 Message-ID: <9nYq9.26$Hm1.498756@news.cpqcorp.net>   Jim,  / I hadn't thought of that. Now, that's creative.    This should also have worked:    #CustomLog /nl combined    Rick  7 "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message . news:aofcbn$m41ml$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de...J > I asked this question a while ago, but still couldn't get what I wanted.D > Thanks to our local Linux dude, he solved this problem by changing+ > the httpd.conf file with these two lines:  > " > SetEnvIf Request_URI "." dontlog/ > CustomLog logs/access_log common env=!dontlog  > ? > The first one says that if the URI is anything (".") then set 8 > the internal environment variable dontlog.   That line5 > was new to the file.  The second line is an edit of B > the default.  It means "if the dontlog variable is not set, then@ > log the access".  Since the variable is always set, nothing is	 > logged.  > 9 > Sort of backward, but seems to work.  Thanks to all who  > offered their help.  >  > Jim  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:14:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit ContentsF Message-ID: <iURq9.37736$vX.3350@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:2JMq9.212867$q41.204330@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > ? > "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message ( > news:aog0n302020@enews4.newsguy.com...& > > John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:H > > > What's wrong with Montgar placing images on a DVD that costs $5 to make. K > > > Organize it like  many other DVD distributions are when you are given  > the L > > > choice of receiving the software on one DVD or a mountain of CD's.  On > these G > > > DVD's,  CD1, CD2, etc...are burned as complete images in separate F > > > directories. When you receive it you can copy the CD images onto single > CD's6 > > > at your leisure, and then install from the CD's. > > K > > If this would enable them to do this affordable, I for one would be all  > for H > > it.  OTOH, I find it hard to believe that having 1 DVD made would be	 > cheaper % > > than having 5 or 6 CD-ROM's made.  > > L > > Of course personally I've no problem with paying more, IF it means there > are  > > multiple CD's. >  > L > It probably isn't the media savings. Most likely it's in the mailing cost. > H > Sun sends me one DVD for some stuff I get from them vs. 7-8 CD's. TheyJ > charge less than 1/2 the price for the one DVD vs. the full set of CD's. > F > I don't know the physics of a stamped DVD vs. a stamped CD, but theyJ > probably are only 1-2x costly than a CD to fabricate, if that. Go to theI > local store - you buy a new release DVD movie vs. a new release and the L > retail price is practically identical. Can't be a lot of difference in theE > fab cost when you work backwards from retial throught wholesale and J > distribution costs. Printing the glossy booklet probably costs more than the  > raw DVD or CD. >     J That should read, "you buy a new release DVD movie vs. a new release music CD"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:55:28 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> 8 Subject: RE: How hard is this for HP to do?  Clustering?: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDOELJCAAA.dallen@nist.gov>  = 	Actually had such a "cluster" using 11/70s, RP06s, IAS and a A 	bread-boarded Massbus controller that gave the DEC field service B 	guy indigestion circa 1978.  Real VMS clustering was a gloriously1 	woderful replacement despite it's many problems.    	Dan 	  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Martyn [mailto:mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com] ( > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 5:34 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Re: How hard is this for HP to do? Clustering?  >  >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > >WarlockD wrote: > >    > > 
 > >>[snip]. > >>Hummm.  I didn't know VMS did clustering.  > >>     > >> > > I > >VMS did "clustering" even before the folks at VMS Engineering invented F > >clustering as we know it! You could share files between nodes usingJ > >DECnet and FAL, but of course performance was abysmal. It was possible,J > >and in some of those early cases - such as my first VMS site - that was
 > >enough! > >    > > F > In my first job, VMS 3.2 IIRC we achieved some of the facilities of G > clustering by having dual proted RM05 disks, and a serial connection  K > between 2 systems over a DZ11 terminal line. There was a bit of freeware  G > (VAXnet I think) that ran and allowed inter system communication (we   > didn't have Ethernet). > J > And we used to sleep in a shoebox in the middle of the road, and get up : > 4 hours before we went to bed to lick the road clean.... >  > : > You tell youngsters today and they don't believe you ;-) >  > >    > >  >  >  > --  . > Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-) >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:48:09 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy @ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!. Message-ID: <3DAC1C99.9090409@nospamn.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:G > I'd hate to insult morons by calling you one.  You claimed that HP-UX L > requires Itanium-2, which is completely false.  I can attest to that sinceK > we purchased i2000's with HP-UX prior to the merger, list price right off K > the internet.  HP-UX customers and ISV's certainly had the opportunity to N > "port" to Itanium prior to the availability of Itanium-2.  So you are prettyL > much wrong all around on *exactly* what you claimed.  I don't think that IM > have a burden to provide you with a list of proof points and customer names  > for HP-UX. >  >   @ Lets see, Intel shipped 2000 ish Itanium I's most of which ended3 up in development labs/demo/loaners at HP, IBM etc.   > Apparently very very few customers purchased any boxes. So who; are the customers who according to your marketing spin have : made the transition off HP-PA/HP-UX onto IA-64/HP-UX. They6 are highly unikely to be in production with Itanium II7 based boxes and they are even more unlikely to be using 6 Itanium based systems because so few were sold by HP's and Intels admission.   < You seem to be mistaking the pulicised availability of HP-UX/ on Itanium with the actual takeup by customers.   6 If anyone is a moron its you and your marketing people4 for thinking that people will beleive the transition> stories without any backup references and with precious little5 chance of real customers haveing doen this due to the # tiny quantities of systems shipped.   5 As ever its a huge pleasure to see that you accuse me * of something that best describes yourself.   regards  Andrew Harrison   # P.S when are you going to improve ?     4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message' > <3D9D7B68.4080805@nospamn.sun.com>...  >  >> >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>5 >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message  >>>  >>> D >>>>>HP-UX runs on Itanium-1.  Customers/ISV's may have chosen to do >>>> > migration  >  >>>>>using that platform.  >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>9 >>>>So provide some examples of customers migrating their 9 >>>>applications and data from an existing PA-RISC system / >>>>to an Itanium I or II system running HP-UX.  >>>>2 >>>>I suspect that there is now going to be a long3 >>>>silence from Freddy, par for the course though.  >>>> >>>  >>> L >>>Still a putz, aren't you.  Why in the world would you think I have a list >> > of > I >>>HP-UX customers?  Or any insight into their customer base.  Oh, that's I >>>right - your in marketing so that would be the norm for you.  Tell you  >> > what,  > E >>>send me the list of all Sun customers, and I'll see what I can do.  >>>  >>: >>So why are you arguing a point when you have admitted in; >>this post that you are entirely ignorant about the merits  >>of your argument ??? >>< >>And you cal me a putz. Freddy boy when will you ever learn: >>get some mirror time and please please please try a tiny  >>bit of thought before posting. >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >> >> >>>  >>>  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:38:50 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> @ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!2 Message-ID: <KoYq9.27$qn1.516127@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Tell you what Andy.  Lets have a vote.  I'll abide by it.  If you fail to 7 get a majority NO vote, then we'll each just fade away.   F Everyone - please replay with your votes.  I'll abide by the majority.  I Remember a YES vote means "Please go away".  A NO vote means "Please stay  and keep writing".     Fred is a moron:    YES  /  NO Andy is a moron:    YES /  NO       2 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message% <3DAC1C99.9090409@nospamn.sun.com>...  >  > 7 >If anyone is a moron its you and your marketing people 5 >for thinking that people will beleive the transition ? >stories without any backup references and with precious little 6 >chance of real customers haveing doen this due to the$ >tiny quantities of systems shipped. > 6 >As ever its a huge pleasure to see that you accuse me+ >of something that best describes yourself.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:37:13 -0400 * From: "Stewart, Bill" <wjs-corp@Kaman.com>@ Subject: RE: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!< Message-ID: <1E4B06029E11D211B47C0000F8207F4D01B9F448@ESKC2>   Fred is a moron:    NO Andy is a moron:    YES    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:37:43 -0700 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>@ Subject: RE: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!0 Message-ID: <01C27436.F01D6730@sulfer.icius.com>  E I vote for you both being considered occasionally moronic, and please G continue posting, but with a bit more restraint. I could do without the D slanging matches and pointless nit-picking, and I doubt I'm the only one.   Shane        -----Original Message-----: From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]( Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:39 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com @ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!      F Tell you what Andy.  Lets have a vote.  I'll abide by it.  If you fail to7 get a majority NO vote, then we'll each just fade away.   F Everyone - please replay with your votes.  I'll abide by the majority.  D Remember a YES vote means "Please go away".  A NO vote means "Please stay and keep writing".     Fred is a moron:    YES  /  NO Andy is a moron:    YES /  NO       2 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message% <3DAC1C99.9090409@nospamn.sun.com>...  >  > 7 >If anyone is a moron its you and your marketing people 5 >for thinking that people will beleive the transition ? >stories without any backup references and with precious little 6 >chance of real customers haveing doen this due to the$ >tiny quantities of systems shipped. > 6 >As ever its a huge pleasure to see that you accuse me+ >of something that best describes yourself.  >    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 04:57:43 -07006 From: david.rabjohns@logistics.nhs.uk (David Rabjohns)% Subject: Java performance on open VMS < Message-ID: <7339437.0210150357.335e0605@posting.google.com>   Hi  C We have a java multithreaded server program that listens for simple A commands and returns data from RMS files by spawning a process (a @ command procedure) that runs a (vax basic) exe and capturing its@ output. This works fine at the moment but is suffering from poor performance.  F I have considered the follwing possibilities but am struggling to find( the info I need to put it into practice.  A 1. "Select" the required data directly from the java class, but I F can't seem to find any information on retrieving data from indexed RMSC files from within Java if at all this is possible. I have looked at C j2VMS which may fit the bill but I'm not sure I fully understand it  yet. Any other ideas ?  ? 2. Use JNI to call the vax basic "methods" directly rather than B spawning another process that executes an image etc.... (We do notC have a C license on the cluster) But I can not find any examples of D doing this with vax basic. Has anyone out there integrated vax basic' procedures with Java ? Is it possible ?   @ If anyone has any other JAVA/VMS performance tips or can suggest? things I may have overlooked - they will be greatly appreciated    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:14:38 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ) Subject: Re: Java performance on open VMS 8 Message-ID: <535oquoosig3uh9gr52fte5khcn53p34bo@4ax.com>  E On 15 Oct 2002 04:57:43 -0700, david.rabjohns@logistics.nhs.uk (David  Rabjohns) wrote:    @ >2. Use JNI to call the vax basic "methods" directly rather thanC >spawning another process that executes an image etc.... (We do not D >have a C license on the cluster) But I can not find any examples of  C If you are interested in C a single user C compiler license for any . VMS system is just a few hundred dollars IIRC.  E >doing this with vax basic. Has anyone out there integrated vax basic ( >procedures with Java ? Is it possible ? > A >If anyone has any other JAVA/VMS performance tips or can suggest @ >things I may have overlooked - they will be greatly appreciated >  >Dave    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:49:53 +0200 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>) Subject: Re: Java performance on open VMS ) Message-ID: <3DAC4731.1010609@vajhoej.dk>    David Rabjohns wrote:   E > We have a java multithreaded server program that listens for simple C > commands and returns data from RMS files by spawning a process (a B > command procedure) that runs a (vax basic) exe and capturing itsB > output. This works fine at the moment but is suffering from poor > performance.    8 I do not think Java is the problem here. Java is good at multithreading.   4 But spawning a sub-process and running an image cost in performance.   H > I have considered the follwing possibilities but am struggling to find* > the info I need to put it into practice. > C > 1. "Select" the required data directly from the java class, but I H > can't seem to find any information on retrieving data from indexed RMSE > files from within Java if at all this is possible. I have looked at E > j2VMS which may fit the bill but I'm not sure I fully understand it  > yet. Any other ideas ?    ; Java itself can not access an index-sequential file by key.   5 But you can write native code that does that and call  it from Java via JNI.      A > 2. Use JNI to call the vax basic "methods" directly rather than D > spawning another process that executes an image etc.... (We do notE > have a C license on the cluster) But I can not find any examples of F > doing this with vax basic. Has anyone out there integrated vax basic) > procedures with Java ? Is it possible ?     ; JDK only comes with C stuff. It is ofcourse possible to use > another language. But I would consider it extremely difficult.  B Do you have access to a C compiler on any system ? If yes then you; could compiler a small C wrapper on that system and develop < the Basic code on the relevant system and just link with the
 C wrapper.     B > If anyone has any other JAVA/VMS performance tips or can suggestA > things I may have overlooked - they will be greatly appreciated   7 Usually Java performance is mostly a question of giving  the JVM enough physical memory.   : But as stated previously, then I do not think your problem is a real Java problem.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:03:47 -0700 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>) Subject: RE: Java performance on open VMS 0 Message-ID: <01C27432.2936A8B0@sulfer.icius.com>  G I believe Arne is right here, it's probably the spawn that's giving yousF your bottleneck. Here's another possible approach. Instead of spawningG each time, have a process running constantly to serve the requests overmB IPC? Your best bet, seeing as there's Java here, would probably be TCP/IP for the communications.  H As you've probably already discovered, BASIC can't multithread so if youD need more than one request served at a time you'd need more than oneF "server" process, and you'd need to keep track of which ones were free from the Java side.e  D Alternatively, given the right amount of money (;-)) I could write a$ multithreaded server in C for you...   Shane"   -----Original Message-----, From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk]' Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:50 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComV) Subject: Re: Java performance on open VMSa     David Rabjohns wrote:   E > We have a java multithreaded server program that listens for simple C > commands and returns data from RMS files by spawning a process (a B > command procedure) that runs a (vax basic) exe and capturing itsB > output. This works fine at the moment but is suffering from poor > performance.    8 I do not think Java is the problem here. Java is good at multithreading.f  4 But spawning a sub-process and running an image cost in performance.   H > I have considered the follwing possibilities but am struggling to find* > the info I need to put it into practice. >=20C > 1. "Select" the required data directly from the java class, but IpH > can't seem to find any information on retrieving data from indexed RMSE > files from within Java if at all this is possible. I have looked atcE > j2VMS which may fit the bill but I'm not sure I fully understand ita > yet. Any other ideas ?    ; Java itself can not access an index-sequential file by key.   5 But you can write native code that does that and callU it from Java via JNI.o   =20tA > 2. Use JNI to call the vax basic "methods" directly rather than D > spawning another process that executes an image etc.... (We do notE > have a C license on the cluster) But I can not find any examples ofrF > doing this with vax basic. Has anyone out there integrated vax basic) > procedures with Java ? Is it possible ?p    ; JDK only comes with C stuff. It is ofcourse possible to usee> another language. But I would consider it extremely difficult.  B Do you have access to a C compiler on any system ? If yes then you; could compiler a small C wrapper on that system and develope< the Basic code on the relevant system and just link with the
 C wrapper.   =20MB > If anyone has any other JAVA/VMS performance tips or can suggestA > things I may have overlooked - they will be greatly appreciatedl  7 Usually Java performance is mostly a question of giving  the JVM enough physical memory.i  : But as stated previously, then I do not think your problem is a real Java problem.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:57:49 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>S Subject: Life after VMS?' Message-ID: <3DABAE5C.78F2C057@Free.fr>d  I I may be soon in the process of visiting a laaarge aircrafts manufacturer-F company who is wondering what they should do if VMS is dead (again...)  Y After having thought about this (known) issue, I think that I will propose three choices:1  P 1. the "Wait&See" solution. Do nothing. As long as you have support, spare partsB and no dysfunctioning (sp?), there is no hurry to change anything.  N 2. the "Start-That-Big-Project" solution. Hire a high level consultant for twoN or three years (me, if possible) and he will tell you where the problems couldL raise up going to this or that platform, then he will prepare a good cook toN migrate/rewrite/adapt/translate/etc the applications (as I know that they haveK *plenty* of real time stuff (and maybe also some PDPs around) it's gonna be3/ funny. But PDPs/RSX11M/S is not VMS, is it? :-)r  O 3. the "Please-Trust-That-New-HP-Company-Folks-They-Are-Not-That-Bad-After-All"nP (ie Rich M. and Co) solution, where I will tell the Customer (with documents andN a little help from my ZK friends): "Please stop wondering about "and if VMS is2 dead" and continue the good job, we are with you".  	 Comments?t   D. -- g2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:49:06 GMTu. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Life after VMS?3 Message-ID: <SLPq9.15513$N_6.282074@news.chello.at>s  W In article <3DABAE5C.78F2C057@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:tJ >I may be soon in the process of visiting a laaarge aircrafts manufacturerG >company who is wondering what they should do if VMS is dead (again...)u >nZ >After having thought about this (known) issue, I think that I will propose three choices: >[snip]rO >2. the "Start-That-Big-Project" solution. Hire a high level consultant for twoiO >or three years (me, if possible) and he will tell you where the problems could M >raise up going to this or that platform, then he will prepare a good cook toBO >migrate/rewrite/adapt/translate/etc the applications (as I know that they havelL >*plenty* of real time stuff (and maybe also some PDPs around) it's gonna be0 >funny. But PDPs/RSX11M/S is not VMS, is it? :-) >[snip]h  H I personally don't want to be that guy that explains how to replace VMS.K I took 6 times the price to get only half of the features and functionality G and got me some years of stomach pain. I said, I won't do this again...f  
 Long live VMS 	 Resist M$r   -- : Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERn% Network and OpenVMS system specialist- E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:49:37 -0400s* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Life after VMS?6 Message-ID: <E4ScnWjtptPjVTagXTWc2Q@News.GigaNews.Com>  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3DABAE5C.78F2C057@Free.fr...iK > I may be soon in the process of visiting a laaarge aircrafts manufacturernH > company who is wondering what they should do if VMS is dead (again...) >hL > After having thought about this (known) issue, I think that I will propose three choices: >.L > 1. the "Wait&See" solution. Do nothing. As long as you have support, spare partseD > and no dysfunctioning (sp?), there is no hurry to change anything.  L If their needs will be absolutely static over time, that's likely true.  ButI if their needs may expand over time to some that VMS does not *currently*pI meet, then the earlier they figure out exactly what issues may be loomingcH ahead the better they'll be able to keep from being unexpectedly burned.   >tL > 2. the "Start-That-Big-Project" solution. Hire a high level consultant for twoiJ > or three years (me, if possible) and he will tell you where the problems couldyK > raise up going to this or that platform, then he will prepare a good cook  toK > migrate/rewrite/adapt/translate/etc the applications (as I know that theyt haveJ > *plenty* of real time stuff (and maybe also some PDPs around) it's gonna be1 > funny. But PDPs/RSX11M/S is not VMS, is it? :-).  K Pretty much the same as above.  If VMS already satisfies all the needs theysL anticipate having this decade (and they're not concerned about price-gougingJ by VMS's owner as the platform becomes more and more niche-bound), there'sC probably no real need to start 'that big project' quite this early.eJ Conversely, if they know they'll be needing some new feature before 2005-6G or so (because until then VMS development will likely be too busy to be.B providing many new features that aren't already well under way andL committed), then right now is when to start looking around for other choicesH (if they're already heavily dependent on VMS's existing features findingD viable alternatives may be difficult - which again puts a premium on starting the search early).    >  > 3. theH "Please-Trust-That-New-HP-Company-Folks-They-Are-Not-That-Bad-After-All"D > (ie Rich M. and Co) solution, where I will tell the Customer (with
 documents and I > a little help from my ZK friends): "Please stop wondering about "and ift VMS is4 > dead" and continue the good job, we are with you".  G Such assurances are worth the specific contract penalty clauses they're J written into, no more (though possibly no less either).  Given the historyI of VMS's owners it would be stupid not to evaluate one's future needs andeI how likely the current platform is to be able to meet them - but for that-J matter it would be stupid not to do so for *any* platform:  the need to isF just more obvious in the case of VMS because its owners already had itL scheduled for code freeze once and show every indication of wanting to do soE again as soon as they think it's feasible (they just don't appreciate I non-industry-standard platforms - seeming to think that being responsiblelH for them distracts the company from its core competencies, whatever they
 might be).  L The only other question to add is, what happens to VMS if HP goes the way ofL DEC and Compaq (or even worse)?  Aside from government contracts (or similarI ones with iron-clad commitments written in), would a new, viable owner be1K bound to support it in general for the nominal 5 years?  And might VMS wind:> up owned by someone whose support wouldn't be much use anyway?  L Your prospective employer might do absolutely nothing and luck out:  there'sJ no guarantee that HP will so completely screw up that VMS won't meet theirK needs far into the future.  Or they might carefully evaluate the situation,dF choose the pain of migrating to another platform, and then get screwedI there.  Nothing is certain, but people who make at least a good effort to-I anticipate the future have a better chance of surviving it than those who L don't (and in any event have the comfort that they did the best they could - 'due diligence').-   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2002 07:05:56 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)o Subject: Re: Life after VMS?0 Message-ID: <aogeok$msq$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  W In article <3DABAE5C.78F2C057@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:>J >I may be soon in the process of visiting a laaarge aircrafts manufacturerG >company who is wondering what they should do if VMS is dead (again...)o >.Z >After having thought about this (known) issue, I think that I will propose three choices: > Q >1. the "Wait&See" solution. Do nothing. As long as you have support, spare partslC >and no dysfunctioning (sp?), there is no hurry to change anything.n > O >2. the "Start-That-Big-Project" solution. Hire a high level consultant for twoaO >or three years (me, if possible) and he will tell you where the problems could M >raise up going to this or that platform, then he will prepare a good cook to7O >migrate/rewrite/adapt/translate/etc the applications (as I know that they havegL >*plenty* of real time stuff (and maybe also some PDPs around) it's gonna be0 >funny. But PDPs/RSX11M/S is not VMS, is it? :-) >iP >3. the "Please-Trust-That-New-HP-Company-Folks-They-Are-Not-That-Bad-After-All"Q >(ie Rich M. and Co) solution, where I will tell the Customer (with documents andeO >a little help from my ZK friends): "Please stop wondering about "and if VMS is73 >dead" and continue the good job, we are with you".u >c
 >Comments?  J I would suggest a mixture of 1 and 3. In addition try to get a list of bigO companies currently using VMS. Most people feel more comfortable if they are in 
 the crowd.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannt  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:55:33 +0000t2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> Subject: Re: Life after VMS?3 Message-ID: <20021015135533.B9533@eisenschmidt.org>t  * My comment on the "start the big project":  A This may be a red herring (since I'm fairly certain the system inh= question isn't VMS based at all), but there was an article in @ yesterday's Washington Post about the District of Colombia's $20F million attempt to implement a new payroll system, and the $14 millionF they've spent to move back to the old system while they look for a new replacement.  C http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21463-2002Oct13.htmla  C In my opinion, this continues to be one of the greatest failings ofnB this industry. Always late, always over budget, and in the end youE spend almost as much to free yourself as you did to make the mistake.s  E I admit, I know as much about the specifics of this project as any of C you do, and I'm not knocking "older" technologies by any means, but C amazes me with all the advancements that have been made in the lasttD decade or so that people cannot implement a robust, reliable system.  ? Users are always going to be users - generally unsophisticated,tC generally uncaring about the specifics of what makes their software-C go, but come on! We have proven development methodologies (i.e. theBD Rational Unified Process), we have sophisticated design tools at ourE disposal (UML, database ERDs), a myriad of programming languages witho: strengths and weaknesses (object oriented, cross platform,@ interpreted), and one doesn't even need to manage their own dataE anymore because we have RDBMSes that have been around for more than a ? decade (some more than two). We have more raw processing power, 5 memory, and disk storage that we could possibly want.   D Screw flying cars - where the hell is one *good* commercial businessE application that was written in the last 10 years? I wonder sometimes-F if we all stopped bickering over which operating system or programming? language was best if we could actually get something meaningfulC accomplished.   & Oh whoops, I just woke up. Never mind.  N Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Didier Morandi (Didier.Morandi@Free.fr) Wrote:K > I may be soon in the process of visiting a laaarge aircrafts manufacturereH > company who is wondering what they should do if VMS is dead (again...) > [ > After having thought about this (known) issue, I think that I will propose three choices:, > R > 1. the "Wait&See" solution. Do nothing. As long as you have support, spare partsD > and no dysfunctioning (sp?), there is no hurry to change anything. > P > 2. the "Start-That-Big-Project" solution. Hire a high level consultant for twoP > or three years (me, if possible) and he will tell you where the problems couldN > raise up going to this or that platform, then he will prepare a good cook toP > migrate/rewrite/adapt/translate/etc the applications (as I know that they haveM > *plenty* of real time stuff (and maybe also some PDPs around) it's gonna beR1 > funny. But PDPs/RSX11M/S is not VMS, is it? :-)  > Q > 3. the "Please-Trust-That-New-HP-Company-Folks-They-Are-Not-That-Bad-After-All" R > (ie Rich M. and Co) solution, where I will tell the Customer (with documents andP > a little help from my ZK friends): "Please stop wondering about "and if VMS is4 > dead" and continue the good job, we are with you". >  > Comments?  >  > D. > --  4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans4 > --------------------------------------------------   -- w/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>oC    Public Key   |  http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/pgp.ascdD    Fingerprint  |  5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2J Is this mail an attachment? http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.en.html  L "I'm curious to try [DB2] out, since Oracle is much more sinister than IBM."   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:44:55 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r Subject: Re: Life after VMS?; Message-ID: <01KNP8FDM0169QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    > 1. the "Wait&See" solution.   , > 2. the "Start-That-Big-Project" solution.   Q > 3. the "Please-Trust-That-New-HP-Company-Folks-They-Are-Not-That-Bad-After-All"f  > (ie Rich M. and Co) solution,    > Comments?   @ 4.  Have the company president or whoever write a letter to HP, E mentioning how much money they have spent on VMS and the hardware it hH runs on.  Have him say that the company would like to stay with VMS and > HP, but is worried about investing more because of (at least a> perceived) lack of commitment from HP concerning VMS.  MentionH explicitly why "roadmaps" and "commitments" etc are difficult to take atG face value because of problems in the past ("NT on ALPHA is the future"dF etc).  Say that there are two solutions: stay with VMS and HP, or moveF to a different---and this is the important bit---NON-HP PLATFORM.  AskF HP if it is willing to legally commit to things it has said repeatedlyH publicly in return for further investment from this company.  Ask HP if I it is not worried about the fact that for every customer who writes such s> a letter, another 10 have abandoned VMS without trying to get I confirmation for HP's commitment to it---especially in light of the fact 6) that this business would be easy to keep.r   Do this with all your clients.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:34:25 -0400s! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>o Subject: Re:  Life after VMS?oK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B7F@rlghncst964.usps.gov>i        Didier:  '      Have you contacted the EMEA folks?i,      I've always found them to most helpful.  L      If nobody gives you the large-caliber assistance that you need, there'sK      a very nice lady who has the same first and last initials who might be &      able to step in and do something.        WWWebbD         tI I may be soon in the process of visiting a laaarge aircrafts manufacturerbF company who is wondering what they should do if VMS is dead (again...)  J After having thought about this (known) issue, I think that I will propose threen choices:  J 1. the "Wait&See" solution. Do nothing. As long as you have support, spare parts,B and no dysfunctioning (sp?), there is no hurry to change anything.  J 2. the "Start-That-Big-Project" solution. Hire a high level consultant for twoeH or three years (me, if possible) and he will tell you where the problems could2L raise up going to this or that platform, then he will prepare a good cook toI migrate/rewrite/adapt/translate/etc the applications (as I know that theyx haveK *plenty* of real time stuff (and maybe also some PDPs around) it's gonna bee/ funny. But PDPs/RSX11M/S is not VMS, is it? :-)a   3. theH "Please-Trust-That-New-HP-Company-Folks-They-Are-Not-That-Bad-After-All"L (ie Rich M. and Co) solution, where I will tell the Customer (with documents andrK a little help from my ZK friends): "Please stop wondering about "and if VMS  is2 dead" and continue the good job, we are with you".  	 Comments?l   D. --2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800 919.874.3043   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:21:36 -0400g' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>E Subject: RE: Life after VMS?T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660A89@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Didier,P   A few suggestions -   D 1. Get Carly / OpenVMS video that will soon be on OpenVMS web pages.C Others who saw it last week at HPETS will likely testify that it is 
 excellent.  D 2. Depending on level of programmer skills (OO does not scare them),D suggest next big project be based on industry standard software i.e.E J2EE, XML, LDAP, Java etc. That way, they not only can maximize theirpF current investments in OpenVMS, but also position themselves very well? for the future in terms of availability, security, scalability,2! portability and interoperability.i  @ 3. Remember to pull and print a few of the testimonials from the following page: 0 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/  9 Currently, the new HP formatted OpenVMS testimonials are:oE http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/nz_steel/nz_steel.pdfnH http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/commerzbank. pdfrC http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/indiarr/indiarr.pdflH http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/southeastern/southeaster
 n_freight.pdfo  C 4. If availability is a critical concern for the future, ensure the-C Customer has this "state of clusters today" whitepaper (August 2002r> release) which positions OpenVMS clusters as the current "gold
 standard":H http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/illuminata_dt_unix_research_note.pd fo  D 5. Reference the following for the latest Oct 02 roadmaps (which now mention OpenVMS V8.0)sB http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm =20pC 6. And for those who think the grass is always greener on the other - side, from recent thread here on comp.os.vms:rC http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21463-2002Oct13.htmll   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantu Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom   (remove the DOT's)       -----Original Message-----7 From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi@Free.fr]=20e Sent: October 15, 2002 1:58 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr Subject: Life after VMS?    < I may be soon in the process of visiting a laaarge aircraftsH manufacturer company who is wondering what they should do if VMS is dead
 (again...)  B After having thought about this (known) issue, I think that I will propose three choices:  D 1. the "Wait&See" solution. Do nothing. As long as you have support,D spare parts and no dysfunctioning (sp?), there is no hurry to change	 anything.-  F 2. the "Start-That-Big-Project" solution. Hire a high level consultantG for two or three years (me, if possible) and he will tell you where thevD problems could raise up going to this or that platform, then he will> prepare a good cook to migrate/rewrite/adapt/translate/etc the& applications (as I know that they haveH *plenty* of real time stuff (and maybe also some PDPs around) it's gonna2 be funny. But PDPs/RSX11M/S is not VMS, is it? :-)   3. theH "Please-Trust-That-New-HP-Company-Folks-They-Are-Not-That-Bad-After-All"B (ie Rich M. and Co) solution, where I will tell the Customer (withG documents and a little help from my ZK friends): "Please stop wonderingoG about "and if VMS is dead" and continue the good job, we are with you".s  	 Comments?s   D. --=20>2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 07:34:56 -0700+ From: spamdump@mccready.com (Gary McCready)u> Subject: NYMLUG NY City Encompass meeting on SAN's 10/22 4-8pm= Message-ID: <ffd79a6c.0210150634.56bd11c3@posting.google.com>   A Please join us for the next NY Metro Local Users Group meeting.  t< Note: you must RSVP in advance for entrance to the building. "SANs for the Enterprise"  Tuesday, Oct 22  4-8 PM p HP Offices  . 2 Penn Plaza 8th Floor ( 7th Ave and 32nd St)   C 4:00 - 5:30     Check in and Visit HP's Demo Center. See networked aD storage solutions.  Hosted by Lenny Poelker and Tom Mendolia of HP.   D 5:30 - 5:40     John Dunnder, Enterprise Storage Sales, HP: Welcome  and Announcements   > 5:40 - 5:45     Gary McCready: LUG and Encompass Business and  Announcements   & Our Featured Speaker - see bio below: ? 5:45 - 7:00     Robb Macomber: "Industry trends and futures of H  networked storage technology."    E 7:00 - 7:45     Designing SANs for the Enterprise", Dan Libonati and eA Calvin Mahoski of Pioneer present  Case Studies of designing and l: implementing SANs for Tru64, OpenVMS, Windows and Solaris   ; To RSVP: send email to Lynne.Hummel(at)hp.com, Subject LUG tF You will be met by a HP employee at the security desk at the entrance F to the building (now at the 7th Avenue side). Should you arrive late, A please call the HP reception desk at 212-856-2000 for an escort. sB Please RSVP and arrive before 5:30 pm as there is limited seating  available. o% HP will  provide light refreshments. g  F For further information on the group you may contact Gary McCready at  NYMLUG(at)McCready.com e  = Feel free to forward this message to others who may have an   E interest in attending - you do not have to be an Encompass member to r attend.   E If you did not receive an "original" version of this message, please o join our mailing list at)  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYMLUG/> 0    F Robb Macomber is a technology consultant in the enterprise server and A storage industry, having worked for the past 18 years at Digital 1D Equipment Corporation, Compaq Computer Corporation, and now Hewlett- Packard Company.  E  At Digital, Macomber worked with OpenVMS and UNIX Operating Systems :E and Clusters, Digital's StorageWorks products, and maintained a long l: standing membership in Digital's UNIX Ambassadors Program.  B  Macomber's efforts at Compaq and now HP have been focused on the A evolution and integration of StorageWorks hardware, SANworks and a< OpenView Storage Area Management software, and Storage Area E Networking technology and solutions. Robb is a charter member of the  E former Compaq's Enterprise Storage Consultants Team and continues at eE HP to serve as a UNIX Ambassador on its Advisory Board, working with V= issues relating to current and emerging storage technologies.r  F Dan Libonati is a Systems Consultant, Enterprise Sales Group, Pioneer F Standard Electronics.  Dan has been with Pioneer Standard Electronics @ for 3 years and came to Pioneer Standard Electronics from Dun & C Bradstreet where he supported Windows NT & 2000 as well as storage AD for the Distributed Systems Group.  Dan is an HP Accredited Systems  Engineer, MCSE and CCA.   @ Calvin Mahoski is a Senior Systems Consultant, Enterprise Sales C Group, Pioneer Standard Electronics.  Calvin has been with Pioneer eD Standard Electronics for 15 years supporting customers in Open VMS,  Tru64 UNIX and Windows   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:31:46 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyi! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategicy. Message-ID: <3DABFCA2.6030104@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DAACC8C.7040604@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > ; >>Warning another CFA (Comprehension Failure Alert). I saidn) >>on the basis of this marketing program.r >  > G >    You asked a question.  You got an answer.  What the hell do I care ! >    what other drivel you write?d >     9 But not an answer that had any relevance to the question.    Sadlyf   Regardsw Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:42:39 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategica, Message-ID: <3DABFF2F.50107@nospamn.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >=20 >> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:e >>: >>> I will conclude that you do not understand english.... >>>o% >>> I agree with many of your points.e >>>m0 >>> But those has *nothing* to do with the topic >>> of this sub-thread.  >>>h0 >>> I am trying to explain to you, that a lot of5 >>> people in this forum would have loved to see thatc0 >>> brochure send to every IBM and SUN customer. >>>e4 >>> We think that it would be a very positive signal1 >>> from HP. Efficient or non-efficient marketingm >>> is not really the issue. >> >=20 >>4 >> I understand this, its obvious from the postings. >=20 >=20 >=208 > Then why do you not admit that your "Would it make any5 > difference if they had ??" was a good candidate forl( > summest question of the year shut up ? >=20 >=20  
 Akkkkkkkkkkk.a  6 In case you hadn't worked it out a STRATEGIC MARKETING4 program that is designed just to keep the readers of2 COV happy doesn't qualify as being strategic or an. effective use of marketing resources. Hence my comment.  + What ROI will HP get from marketing to COV.:  6 If you have any other comprehension problems I suggest< you refer them to a co-worker because as a public discussion its pretty tedious.         3 >> But so far you havn't provided any justificationp1 >> for HP doing this apart from a vague idea thatC' >> the readers of COV would be happier.  >=20 >=20 >=20/ > Listen carefully: THE TOPIC IS NOT MARKETING, . > THE TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT WHY HP IS DOING THIS,3 > THE TOPIC IS WHETHER IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE OR US.a >=20  0 So explain why HP should be interested something that flatters COV readers ???w  2 You describe my posts as stupid but in the process/ illustrate in all to graphic detail why OpenVMSc/ is likely to die (assuming that the majority of?" OpenVMS customers agree with you).   Regards  Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:19:28 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategiclG Message-ID: <QYRq9.37756$vX.19886@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:k2f8pusq88umvuklce9vqagc7nd7v7cobp@4ax.com... >uB > Just received a new set of brochures from HP in the UK for AlphaF > related products. I have to admit that someone has gone out of theirG > way to ensure that it, at least, tries to send a strong message aboute > VMS. >lH > "and remember, HP OpenVMS is now a *strategic platform* (underlined inG > original doc)" and "*OpenVMS is strategic* (large font page headline)aG > as an enterprise server platform for the new HP" No mention of VMS onr9 > low end Itanium systems (iMultia, Mutanium?...) though.p >iF > The roadmaps are described as "cast in stone" which surely indicatesE > that someone in marketing has at last started to figure out that weo( > are a bit wary of roadmaps these days. > E > Lots of offers including 33% trade in against any Sun or IBM systema" > for any new AlphaServer ordered. >vD > Not a word about helping anyone move from VMS to HP-UX or NT thankG > goodness. You'd almost think someone is paying  attention to feedbacke > in comp.os.vms :-) > B > 8/10 for the glossies.  Now let's see how well they can execute.     Alan,b  K Saw your more recent post about moving to SAP. If VMS *IS* strategic to HP,fH have they articulated to you how they are going to work with SAP to have8 release parity of SAP on VMS with all the unix variants?  J I'm afraid that the only thing 'strategic' about VMS to HP is the strategyK they use to milk the remaining customer base out of their money for as longhH as possible before abandoning them or encouraging them to move to HP-UX.  K Please don't tell me that your organization will be considering HP hardwareaL for your SAP implementation. Tell HP you won't be and see if that encourages them to work with SAP for VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:48:52 GMTm& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL& Message-ID: <3DAC28FD.4BC53F69@hp.com>  B On Alpha V7.3-1, there's a new GETJPI code for the parent process:  +   $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR") 
      20602D44h   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:48:35 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL; Message-ID: <01KNP8PTSNVK9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>c  D > On Alpha V7.3-1, there's a new GETJPI code for the parent process: > - >   $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR")e >      20602D44    $ sh syst/noprocI OpenVMS V7.3  on node FOOBAR 15-OCT-2002 16:46:35.32  Uptime  51 04:43:10m- $   $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR")g 22400410  E So, is it there but undocumented in 7.3?  (It doesn't work on 7.2-1.)h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:01:59 -0400j From: norm.raphael@metso.com4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL? Message-ID: <OF68CF3868.2DD097ED-ON85256C53.005286A7@metso.com>   0 (It doesn't work on 7.2-2, either, as expected.)          J Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> on 10/15/2002 11:48:35 AM  E Please respond to Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>p   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc: 7 Subject:    Re: Originator of detached process from DCLk    D > On Alpha V7.3-1, there's a new GETJPI code for the parent process: >a- >   $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR")o >      20602D44a   $ sh syst/noprocI OpenVMS V7.3  on node FOOBAR 15-OCT-2002 16:46:35.32  Uptime  51 04:43:10 - $   $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR")d 22400410  E So, is it there but undocumented in 7.3?  (It doesn't work on 7.2-1.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:04:27 -0400s& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL' Message-ID: <aoheac$j7v$1@lore.csc.com>a  d On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:48:35 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:  F > > On Alpha V7.3-1, there's a new GETJPI code for the parent process: > > / > >   $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR")r > >      20602D44t >  > $ sh syst/noprocK > OpenVMS V7.3  on node FOOBAR 15-OCT-2002 16:46:35.32  Uptime  51 04:43:10r/ > $   $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR")r
 > 22400410 > G > So, is it there but undocumented in 7.3?  (It doesn't work on 7.2-1.)t  + It appears to be in STARLET.MLB (for V7.3):t  D $ pipe libr/extr=$jpidef/outp=sys$output sys$library:starlet.mlb | - search sys$input: creator  $EQU    JPI$_CREATOR    847   C but this item code is not documented in the System Services manual! E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E David M. Smith 302.391.8533                   dsmit115 at csc dot comhE Computer Sciences Corporation (Opinions are those of the writer only)lE ---------------------------------------------------------------------i   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 12:31:32 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL3 Message-ID: <ExY6Hw7NP3LO@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  P In article <aoheac$j7v$1@lore.csc.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes:f > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:48:35 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:  H >> So, is it there but undocumented in 7.3?  (It doesn't work on 7.2-1.) > - > It appears to be in STARLET.MLB (for V7.3):s > F > $ pipe libr/extr=$jpidef/outp=sys$output sys$library:starlet.mlb | - > search sys$input: creatorn > $EQU    JPI$_CREATOR    847  > E > but this item code is not documented in the System Services manual!e  B Which, of course, means that VMS Development does not commit to it working in that version.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:42:14 -0400d! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>n3 Subject: RE: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B80@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   3 But TOA0: is just a template (like LTA0:) isn't it?t  I Terminal TOA0:, device type unknown, is unplugged, heated, slice-oriented 8     device, darkness control, device is a template only.  <     Error count                    0    Operations completed 0s1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UICn [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W-;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size/ 80     :^)  :^). :^)   
     WWWebb  3 In article <lZOzxlzqY55C@eisner.encompasserve.org>,4, koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org wrote:  B >In article <20021012120546.25992.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher4 <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:; >> On 12 Oct 02, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:. >>>If SAP made toastersu >c" >If VMS Engineering made toasters: >PF >   You'd put your bread in it, press a button, and the 75 watt heaterD >   would turn it somewhat brown before it popped up.  To change the2 >   darkness try the following code extracted from sys$examples:dec$toast.f90 >d > newdark = tt$k_dark_medium& > status = sys$assign("TOA0:",chan,,,)$ > if (.not.status) call exit(status) >nE > status = sys$qiow(,%val(chan),%val(io$_setmode.or.io$m_darkness), &-/ >                     iosb,,newdark,%val(4),,,)o$ > if (.not.status) call exit(status)& > if (.not.iosb(1)) call exit(iosb(1))  G Why did you hard-code the toaster name?  Clearly VMS would support morea> than one toaster, so the "TOA0:" string should be generalized.   Also, you forgot    include '($toastdef)'   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800 919.874.3043   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:08:39 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS8 Message-ID: <6rinqugibkk52jpkbfru8ui0q90s1g56k8@4ax.com>  7 On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:27:00 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"A <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >David Rabahy wrote: >> eM >> If we can build a compelling business case then perhaps PeopleSoft will bem >> persuaded. [snip] >-B >*SIGH* What part of "Customers want it" do they find difficult toF >understand? At this point, "compelling business case" is as simple asA >"HP-UX is not OpenVMS, and HP owns both". If HP goes in with thedE >attitude, "Alright, what will it take to make this happen?" I'm sureeG >we'll see it happen - but frankly, and this is admittedly "sentiment",mF >neither is likely: HP is not likely to do that, so it's not likely to >happen. >)D >Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is HP's ball - it's in >THEIR court, not ours.e  B And unfortunately I've now heard that we *will* be moving our mainC manufacturing and financial systems to SAP. Given that SAP does notrC run on VMS this means the slow end of our VMS systems. Unless a SAPeA port magically appears which is about as likely as an Apollo moonm landing by 2004.    G >Wow! I thought Ross threw in the VMS towel AGES ago! Then again, theirsG >prices were outlandish 16 years ago. They must absolutely astronomical F >by now (certainly not "affordable" to any but the Fortune 5, easily).  F I used to work for a company which sold and supported financial systemD called BOS/Global 2000 on VMS. Much, much cheaper than Ross. But DEC> persuaded BOS that VMS was not strategic. That was around 1991   >t -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 07:43:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)P Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS3 Message-ID: <pbmdsoaFwUQX@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  [ In article <3DAB8B04.EE7A3E58@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:s > David Rabahy wrote:t >> eM >> If we can build a compelling business case then perhaps PeopleSoft will ben >> persuaded. [snip] > C > *SIGH* What part of "Customers want it" do they find difficult tov
 > understand?   F David is in a position to relay exact customer requirements (names andE sizes of customers) to those who would make such a decision.  I thinkn: he deserves support from those who know of such customers.  F "Customers want it" is a great idea, but David needs to present proof.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:20:04 -0500e, From: "Tony Scandora" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov> Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS+ Message-ID: <aohf7e$ot1$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>-  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DAB8B04.EE7A3E58@fsi.net...  > David Rabahy wrote:( > > K > > If we can build a compelling business case then perhaps PeopleSoft willb be > > persuaded. [snip]d >nC > *SIGH* What part of "Customers want it" do they find difficult totG > understand? At this point, "compelling business case" is as simple astB > "HP-UX is not OpenVMS, and HP owns both". If HP goes in with theF > attitude, "Alright, what will it take to make this happen?" I'm sureH > we'll see it happen - but frankly, and this is admittedly "sentiment",G > neither is likely: HP is not likely to do that, so it's not likely tor	 > happen.n  L The real question is not qualitative customers want it, but quantitative how many customers.  Ditto SAP.o  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541f scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:28:17 -0700n$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: PeopleSoft on VMS0 Message-ID: <01C2742D.32FDF650@sulfer.icius.com>  G I wonder if "it doesn't matter if anyone wants it, you have to do it toqH give people some confidence in your support for the platform" would fly?   Yeah, right, I'm dreaming.   Shaned   -----Original Message-----1 From: Tony Scandora [mailto:Scandora@cmt.anl.gov] ' Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:20 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS    < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DAB8B04.EE7A3E58@fsi.net...l > David Rabahy wrote:' > >tK > > If we can build a compelling business case then perhaps PeopleSoft willa be > > persuaded. [snip]m >aC > *SIGH* What part of "Customers want it" do they find difficult torG > understand? At this point, "compelling business case" is as simple asrB > "HP-UX is not OpenVMS, and HP owns both". If HP goes in with theF > attitude, "Alright, what will it take to make this happen?" I'm sureH > we'll see it happen - but frankly, and this is admittedly "sentiment",G > neither is likely: HP is not likely to do that, so it's not likely tou	 > happen.L  H The real question is not qualitative customers want it, but quantitative howD many customers.  Ditto SAP.i  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541b scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:19:18 +0100t' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo9 Subject: Re: Problem copying large files from VMS to Unixn. Message-ID: <3DAC07C6.3050808@nospamn.sun.com>  2 Depends on the version of Solaris you are running.  9 Versions older than 2.6  versions had a 2GB file for UFS.s  8 If you are using VxFS then you need to check the Veritas release notes.  ; But you say that you have created a >2GB file on the targeti, Solaris box so this should not be the issue.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    Antonio Carlini wrote: > John Nebel wrote:a >  >>I >> It appears to work with wu-ftp on DU 4.0g, TCP/IP 5.1 on VMS 7.2-2.  Ia >> just tested this VMS to DU. >  > F > Sadly I don't have the root password for the DU box, so I cannot tryE > for a few more days (then I'm back in the office and can break in).pC > I did try wu-ftp on Solaris and had no luck. I did manage to basht< > a large file onto Solaris from another SOlaris box, so I'm9 > not convinced that the problem lies on the Solaris end.t > ? > Once I break into the DU box I'll see if I can add DECnet andu# > maybe that will solve my problem.  > 	 > Antoniod >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 05:28:53 -0400o2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>Y Subject: Rdb Technical Forum in San Francisco - November 9&10 - seats still available ava-) Message-ID: <3DABDFD5.5050002@oracle.com>   / Rdb Product Management and Engineering has beeno1 pleased to offer a series of Rdb Technical Forums / in various locations around the world for 2002.n1 These Forums are offered at no charge and presentb. a series of sessions conducted by acknowledged. technical specialists from Rdb Engineering and- the Rdb community at large. The Rdb Technical-- Forums should be considered a requirement for1. anyone wishing to remain completely up-to-date2 with all the latest enhancements and optimizations in Oracle Rdb.  , In 2002 Forums have been held in Nashua, NH,. Zurich, Reading, Copenhagen, Sydney, Tokyo and. Osaka. An additional forum will be held in San# Francisco, CA on November 9 and 10.l  , Visit the Oracle Rdb site on the internet at. http://www.oracle.com/rdb for registration and additional information.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 05:41:41 -0700k# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>r' Subject: RE: singular and plural of VAXg9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEIDFOAA.tom@kednos.com>   3 Actually the word representing the Trademark shouldn; be (or be used as) an adjective. e.g. Scott (brand) towels,n VAX system, not a noun.t   >-----Original Message-----u( >From: John Santos [mailto:JOHN@egh.com]' >Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 8:54 PMr >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAX >y >a( >On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Bob Knowles wrote: >  >> Alan E. Feldman wrote:lK >> > Hey, another plural of VAX is "VAX systems". That's what the docs say, D >> > I believe. And no one can say it's wrong! Well, one can say it, >> > but.... >> >> <historical_note>= >> And the docs say it because there was a directive from theo >Digital (at theL >> time) legal folks to the effect that a trademark was easier to protect if1 >> the owner never used it as a stand-alone noun.o >> </historical_note>o >> --g >> bob.know1es@hp.come( >> (non-spammers should make the 1 an L) >n? >I remember once seeing a letter to the editor in some computer I >magazine, possibly IEEE Computer, from the head counsel for MacDonald's.hF >He said that the magazine had recently run an ad for itself (or maybeF >for a sister publication) that compared the cost of a subscription toE >the cost of so many Big Macs and a small Coke.  Apparently there was1E >a picture or drawing of something that resembled the big yellow "M".e >iG >The lawyer said the golden arches logo was a trademark of McDogfood's,tB >as was the name Big Mac, and that they did not serve small cokes,B >only medium and large, and that the correct plural of Big Mac wasA >not "Big Macs", but "Big Mac hamburger sandwiches", and to ceasel! >and desist from running the ads.o >nB >The editor's reply was "Have it your way, Mr. Smith".  (For thoseA >not up on U.S. advertising trivia, this was Burger Kings' slogani >at the time.) >oA >(I guess since he wasn't Coca Cola's lawyer, he didn't object tou? >the use of "Coke", which by the way is a counterexample to thei- >"don't use it as a standalone noun" theory.)t >- >--B >John Santos >i >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).rA >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002l >r --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:17:01 -0400e# From: "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com>l+ Subject: Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk?i/ Message-ID: <aohbhe$cpu$1@license1.unx.sas.com>t  K Assuming you are using Mac OS X (versus Mac OS 9) then you can also use NFSdK to do a live-mount between the VMS system and OS X.  I use this at home andu it works great.s    4 "Howard S Shubs" <howard@shubs.net> wrote in message6 news:howard-5D9E55.18415712102002@enews.newsguy.com...) > In article <3DA8653E.230AB0AC@Free.fr>,31 >  Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:- >x > > What risks?9 > I > None.  It's a file.  If it has been stored with resources of some sort,-7 > they'll get lost, but that shouldn't hurt a MOV file.i >< > --6 > Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:48:24 +0000 (UTC)C- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)e+ Subject: Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk?.. Message-ID: <aohdc8$qln$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> writes in article <121020022331317391%elliott@yrl.co.uk> dated Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:31:31 +0100:   ><Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote: >> Can I@ >> store my Corsica 2002 movie to one of my Alpha disks via FTP? >v >Files > 2GB might frighten ftpe2 >It will be painfully slow transferring the files.H >DV is 3.6MB/sec. 10baseT is 500KB/sec Mac to alpha with the wind behindF >it. I get slightly better on the way back, about 900KB/sec. The round  K I get better than that writing to the "unsupported" IDE drive in my Alpha. eM It approaches 2 MB/s when I upload mp3 files using "fetch" on a 350 MHz G-3.  L I'd expect Didier's results to be similar to mine; even better if he's using SCSI disks on his Alpha.  I You may have a poorly tuned machine or misconfigured network card in your  setup, Elliot. t  $ >I'm considering going the other wayE >By using cheap ATA disks and a plug 'em in firewire bridge on a Mac,ND >VMS backups via Macintosh work out cheaper than buying a box of DAT >tapes.V   Not cheaper than 8mm I bet.e   >> Did someone do that already?-  L As somebody else pointed out, you lose the resource fork when you transfer aI Mac file to a non-Mac platform, meaning if you double-click the new copy,.H MacOS won't know what application to use to open the file.  You can workI around this minor hassle, or you can avoid it by using ftp for upload andeK http (in a web browser) for download.  The default configuration of CSWS is6C smart enough to use the MIME type "video/quicktime" for .MOV files.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orga> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:02:42 -0400B2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>+ Subject: Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk?l. Message-ID: <3DAC3C22.BEC6CA5C@mindspring.com>   "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:y  N > As somebody else pointed out, you lose the resource fork when you transfer aK > Mac file to a non-Mac platform, meaning if you double-click the new copy,dJ > MacOS won't know what application to use to open the file.  You can workK > around this minor hassle, or you can avoid it by using ftp for upload ands' > http (in a web browser) for download.e  3 Actually, it's the "Finder Information" part of the - tripartate Mac file system that contains thatt3 data (identifying the target application), but yourr point is still valid.o  ) (Lose the resource fork, though, and mosth, Macintosh applications programs are toast as! are many of their created files.)s  , Anything that will encode/decode "MacBinary"+ on transfer to the VMS system will save allo. three parts of the file; Fetch, the common Mac2 FTP application can certainly do that if you wish.  , For some files, though, you actually want to/ lose the resource fork and the Finder Info whend- you transfer them to a non-Mac system becauseu5 all the data that you really need is in the data forke3 of the file. .TXT, .JPEG, .GIF, .HTML, and the liket. are examples of such files. You only need (and0 can only use) the extra info if you transfer the files back to a Mac.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:19:44 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>m0 Subject: Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.8 Message-ID: <qcjnqukgmc9lbj6ot775nojqao8tt0b5dv@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:57:56 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert  Deininger) wrote:x    G >Check that the speed, media, and duplex setting match the rest of your-C >local network.  You can use the LANCP SET DEVICE command to change=D >settings without rebooting, but you should also set the appropriate' >environmental variable in the console.7   **WARNING**-  F While I have successfully changed settings several times with LANCP, IF have seen one occasion where the ethernet hung solid forcing a reboot.@ Circumstances were I noticed we were running at 10Mb/sec after aE firmware upgrade. ewa0_mode was set for twisted pair for some bizarreV> reason. I didn't do the upgrade so I don't know if the upgradeC procedure screwed up or the person doing it did. In any case when I E tried to switch to 100Mb/sec everything stopped.  After resetting theu* environment variables everything was fine.   >aG >This firmware change was documented in the release notes, but it seemsmF >very few people can read these days.  I've seen about a dozen systems9 >caught by this change.  IMHO, the change was a bad idea.c   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:44:12 GMTr# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>e0 Subject: Re: Telnet problem after 7.3-1 Upgrade.= Message-ID: <w4Uq9.132378$O8.3157663@twister.tampabay.rr.com>e  : There is an article on WIS about VMS 7.3-1 and TCPIP V 5.3  H It says that engineering has acknowledged a problem (with NSLOOKUP) thatJ affects TELNET.  It is actually an RMS problem and not a TCP problem.  The4 work around is to reduced MAXBUF to less than 32535.  7 "Andrew Robinson" <arobinson@hspg.com> wrote in messageoG news:CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E9AF@grumpy.internal.hspg.com...  > Please could you help? >lL > I upgraded two ES40's (DE600's) at the weekend to OVMS7.3-1 from OVMS7.2-1H > everything went well until I tried to connect to the boxes via Telnet,H > DECNET IV worked fine. I had an ~ 2 minute delay on the telnet which IJ > believe is some sort of Reverse DNS lookup problem. To test this I added my7 > PC into the local Host table and it worked perfectly. I > How do I stop this behaviour, I've had to reverse the upgrade, and drop  therL > 7.2-1 disk back in, so please could someone help me with the correct stepsJ > next time. I've only got a small time window to do the upgrade in and be" > completely happy it's gone well.F > As a side note : The FTP login delay due the reverse DNS problem hadL > vanished, so it appeared that the lookup had gone from FTP to TELNET which
 > worried me.iD > I do have the upgraded disk at 7.3-1 which I can plug in and check	 parameter  > files if required. >rL > I realise this is a purely Technical question with no political overtones,L > so won't get through many people's Killfile, but if you could help I would > be most grateful.) > 	 > Regardsg >o > Andrew Robinsono9 > Battling to keep OVMS in at least one small UK company.. >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:10:26 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelsi. Message-ID: <3DAC05B1.44ABD37A@mindspring.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  < > > The number of operating systems that supports SYS$QIO(W) > > is rather limited !  >n >         VAX/VMS 
 >         VMSg >         OpenVMSt >         OpenVMS VAXc >         OpenVMS Alphae >         SEVMSo >         Digital OpenVMSe >         Compaq OpenVMS >         HP OpenVMS  # And if you omit SYS$, don't forget:   	   RSX-11De	   RSX-11Mh
   RSX-11M+	   RSX-11S-   IASe   RSTS/E  1 (Can't speak for certain for RSX-11A, -B, or -C.)   %                                Atlantn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:10:29 -0400 # From: "John" <cmiinkNOSPAM@msn.com>b" Subject: VMS 5.3 disk installation+ Message-ID: <e0i9SzFdCHA.1748@cpimsnntpa03>-  L I have a VAX 3200 with VMS 5.3 . My knowledge on Unix, VAX 3200's and VMS isK very lacking. I am trying to change the store drive from a Seagate ST12550N  (2 GB) to a ST15150N (4 GB).I When formatting I get options Node, logical unit and INTERLEAVE (0-7).  I-K don't know what Interleave is, so I chose zero (0), and the formatting went-J OK. When bringing up the system and initializing the new drive I get errorL (INIT-F-Cluster, unsuitable cluster factor).  Can anyone help configure thisJ drive into the system?  I don't  know if this drive is suitable, or how to? change the cluster size.  I would appreciate any help or input.o Thanks.. John Pittmano e-mail   cmiinkNOSPAM@msn.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:54:48 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>& Subject: Re: VMS 5.3 disk installation) Message-ID: <3DAC4858.6574B3C1@127.0.0.1>    John wrote:  > N > I have a VAX 3200 with VMS 5.3 . My knowledge on Unix, VAX 3200's and VMS isM > very lacking. I am trying to change the store drive from a Seagate ST12550No > (2 GB) to a ST15150N (4 GB).K > When formatting I get options Node, logical unit and INTERLEAVE (0-7).  IuM > don't know what Interleave is, so I chose zero (0), and the formatting wentrL > OK. When bringing up the system and initializing the new drive I get errorN > (INIT-F-Cluster, unsuitable cluster factor).  Can anyone help configure thisL > drive into the system?  I don't  know if this drive is suitable, or how toA > change the cluster size.  I would appreciate any help or input.o  E With regard to the low level formatting, accept the default is a goodaE move but I can't really comment if they are correct for the operatingR system.r  C VMS 5.3 is circa 1989 when the largest disks around were only a few E hundred meg. VMS up to version 6.1 or so had this limitation however.y  F You've already got a two gig disk, which is some going. I think you'reF problem is that the operating system is not capable of working out theG correct cluster factor, and you'll need to specify it. It's a long shotdF and not guaranteed of success, for 4 gig disks you need a cluster size of 9   For INIT try INIT/CLUSTER=9 .../  D Bear in mind that files, many small files, of 4 blocks or less couldE wipe out any extra space you may expect to gain due to wastage. A wayeE forward could be bound volume sets but they need careful attention ton; work properly. (i.e. you use 2 x 2 GB disks formed as one).k  E I'd advise checking the documentation to be sure that you are copyingrG the data safely from one to another, come back here for pointers and tol8 those of us with memories that stretch back that far :-)  
 Good luck. --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesa nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:47:40 -0400c! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>a& Subject: Re: VMS 5.3 disk installationK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B83@rlghncst964.usps.gov>m  ! I have a VAX 3200 with VMS 5.3 . n  *      3200. One of those very early Alphas?  : My knowledge on Unix, VAX 3200's and VMS is very lacking.   = I am trying to change the store drive from a Seagate ST12550Nn (2 GB) to a ST15150N (4 GB).  6  	Show us what you see when you type SHOW DEV from the 	console prompt (>>>)   I When formatting I get options Node, logical unit and INTERLEAVE (0-7).  I K don't know what Interleave is, so I chose zero (0), and the formatting wenta OK.   1       FORMATting? how?  From a console prompt?   EH       Show us the command you're using and the responses you're getting.   F When bringing up the system and initializing the new drive I get error. (INIT-F-Cluster, unsuitable cluster factor).    :       Show us the *exact* command you're entering and the  	exact response.  7 Can anyone help configure this drive into the system?  e  0       With the right amount of information, yes.  K I don't  know if this drive is suitable, or how to change the cluster size.n    5       You can specify it when you INIT the disk.     r  n       $ help init/clustern   % I would appreciate any help or input.r   Thanks.. John Pittmana e-mail   cmiinkNOSPAM@msn.com    ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:40:57 -0400i# From: "John" <cmiinkNOSPAM@msn.com>O& Subject: Re: VMS 5.3 disk installation+ Message-ID: <u0imXHHdCHA.1664@cpimsnntpa03>r   Thanks Nic,HJ This system is on a CT scanner and the store is used for image files only.K A loss of data (images) is not a problem as they are routinely deleted frommK store once archived and filmed.  The site now wants to store raw image data J for reconstruction using various filters. This will require much more disk space>H and restrict the number of patients done without deletions.  The options with theF scanner allow up to 2GB drives and states a cluster size of 5 with the larger drives.J I can also have a second SCSI drive on the same bus.  I plan on using this drive asJ logical drive (1) once it is working.   After looking unsuccessfully for a 2GB model, IJ decided to try this drive.  The documentation on how to do this is not all
 that detailed 0 for someone not well schooled with the OS (VMS).K I didn't know how to assign the cluster size or if there was something doneR wrong J during formatting. I don't know if a cluster size of 9 is allowable, but I can now playF around with sizes.   I may be able to get this drive working with your information. Thanks again.. John PittmanC  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messageg# news:3DAC4858.6574B3C1@127.0.0.1...e
 > John wrote:i > >cI > > I have a VAX 3200 with VMS 5.3 . My knowledge on Unix, VAX 3200's and  VMS isF > > very lacking. I am trying to change the store drive from a Seagate ST12550N  > > (2 GB) to a ST15150N (4 GB).J > > When formatting I get options Node, logical unit and INTERLEAVE (0-7). IWJ > > don't know what Interleave is, so I chose zero (0), and the formatting wentH > > OK. When bringing up the system and initializing the new drive I get errorwK > > (INIT-F-Cluster, unsuitable cluster factor).  Can anyone help configureg thisK > > drive into the system?  I don't  know if this drive is suitable, or howM toC > > change the cluster size.  I would appreciate any help or input.- >-G > With regard to the low level formatting, accept the default is a good"G > move but I can't really comment if they are correct for the operating9	 > system.9 >@E > VMS 5.3 is circa 1989 when the largest disks around were only a fewnG > hundred meg. VMS up to version 6.1 or so had this limitation however.  > H > You've already got a two gig disk, which is some going. I think you'reH > problem is that the operating system is not capable of working out theI > correct cluster factor, and you'll need to specify it. It's a long shotlH > and not guaranteed of success, for 4 gig disks you need a cluster size > of 9 >l! > For INIT try INIT/CLUSTER=9 ...( >gF > Bear in mind that files, many small files, of 4 blocks or less couldG > wipe out any extra space you may expect to gain due to wastage. A way.G > forward could be bound volume sets but they need careful attention toe= > work properly. (i.e. you use 2 x 2 GB disks formed as one).o >gG > I'd advise checking the documentation to be sure that you are copying I > the data safely from one to another, come back here for pointers and to : > those of us with memories that stretch back that far :-) >e > Good luck. > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest > nclews at csc dot comm   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 00:58:42 -07002 From: vankirk@decision.quest.gr (Stewart Van Kirk)E Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 tp_server (decdtm) startup and sys$node_fullnameu; Message-ID: <8843e43.0210142358.1c71355@posting.google.com>e   > ? > This seems to indicate a mis-configuration of DECNet Phase V.  > 8 > You might want to redo or check the DECNet OSI Config. >   C You were right.  We re-ran net$configure using the LOCAL: namespace % and it worked.  Thanks for your help.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:57:39 +0100t* From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com>& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption% Message-ID: <3dabc4f0$1@194.70.94.92>   : "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message/ news:92A788526warrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30...CH > ccooke@beta.dabs.com (Craig Cooke) wrote in <3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92>: >L > >Hi, > > G > >I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMSfK > >7.3-1 - storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.2H > > We had problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  I	 > >did anM > >  > >ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK'B > >yB > >Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such as > >r; > >%ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1e$ > >        multiply allocated blocks > >        VBN 78490 to 79515 ( > >        LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 1; > >%ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1n$ > >        multiply allocated blocks > >        VBN 79516 to 144324 > > B > >%ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3, > >        of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1)$ > >        Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISM$ > >                  and 'FILE2.ISM' > > I > >We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS 7.2-1rH > >to OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today -I > >and requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, if thisi1 > >is a known issue, it requires resolving first./ > >0) > >Does anyone know anything about this ?  > >gC > >Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2)m > > $ > >Thanks ins advance for any input. > >o > >Craig Cooke > >Dabs.coma >.L > Is this system part of a cluster?  Disk corruption is often unavoidable in > a partitioned cluster. >  > ws >6 > -- >  > Warren Spencer) > Senior Software Engineer (not a writer): > The Associated Press >1> > ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **    
 Hi Warren,  L The system is completely stand alone - with no disk defragmentation tools orJ any other tools on it that would be a potential candidate for causing thisE problem.  The system is only running the application that the companyeL utilises - and has done so with no problems whatsoever for several years.  IH only upgraded the system to OpenVMS 7.3-1 to test compatability with theK application - and all was working fine - until files started 'disappearing' H (obviously, since indexf.sys has become corrupt - I would expect this to happen).  K I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem on OpenVMSr 7.3-1 ?    Regardsu   Craig Cooke" Dabs.com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 08:36:10 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)TO Subject: Re: VMS New Release Schedule (was:  Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ?)a3 Message-ID: <+B3QNCzmU2Oh@eisner.encompasserve.org>$  i In article <55f85d77.0210150450.4da6c4f9@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:-N > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3DA93B1A.7040806@home.nl>... >> Patrick Young wrote:5 >> sM >> >will put in a purchase for the future 7.4 source listings, but not 7.3-1,yN >> >as I have to justify the purchase to management at work. "Way out of date"  >> >works, but "hobby" does not. >> >I >> I don't think there will be a 7.4 version. There will be a 7.3-2 late u5 >> next year, and from there it will be 8.x versions.s > K > I was not at HPETS as being on the other side of the world does not help,.N > so am probably very out of date regarding the up-to-the-month state of play,K > and did believe 7.4 would be next? A google search shows information from ? > Hoff about 7.4 shipping the same time for both Alpha and VAX.7  B The plans announced at the recent US DECUS Symposium (hpets) were:  % 	V7.3-2 (Alpha-only) sometime in 2003l  + 	V8.0 (Itanium-only, early adopters) 1H2003a  + 	V8.1 (Itanium-only, early adopters) 2H2003   & 	V8.2 (VAX, Alpha and Itanium ) 1H2004  G V8.2 would be the production quality Itanium version, and would include G all the DII-COE support on Alpha and Itanium.  V7.3-2 will have many of- the COE security changes.2   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 08:23:40 -0700+ From: spamdump@mccready.com (Gary McCready)-2 Subject: VMS System Mgr. position available in NJ.= Message-ID: <ffd79a6c.0210150723.2cac4986@posting.google.com>s  D Position available: VMS Systems Manager with application developmentE background to support systems, SAN, OS/Application DCL interfaces and.B developer coding.  The position is at a financial services firm in northeast New Jersey.   B For more information send a short email detailing your background,@ location and availability to "work(at)mccready.com", (at)=@.  In@ return, you'll get more info on the job that you can tailor your
 resume to.  C The application process will involve several local interviews a fewp? weeks apart, with no relocation or travel assistance available.m  % Note: I'm an employee of the company.o   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 11:07:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a6 Subject: Re: VMS System Mgr. position available in NJ.3 Message-ID: <ETVLTJmlTYbW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <ffd79a6c.0210150723.2cac4986@posting.google.com>, spamdump@mccready.com (Gary McCready) writes:f  ' > Note: I'm an employee of the company.d  C So if you promised yourself _never_ to work at a company where GaryT works...   :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:47:47 +0200s/ From: "Jean-Yves Meuric" <jy.meuric@wanadoo.fr> < Subject: Re: Why slow system when using logical search list?3 Message-ID: <aogo81$eao$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>i  . I'm not any more working on VMS but IIRC maybe  : using the lexical DCL function f$trnlnm (or the equivalent  7 in the system service library or the TRL library) couldd  + help in doing the translation once for all.b  
 Jean-Yves.  G "Lawrence Bleau" <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> a crit dans le message de news:.% anfbiq$4qc$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...-L > Hi, I have a performance question that make take some insider knowledge of RMS.B > It was quite a puzzler.  First, my config: OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2 on
 DECstation > 3000 model 300, Fortran V7.2.  >2K > Background (short version): A disk went bad, so we moved our data sets tob a H > spare disk on another system in the same room, and accessed them using Decnet. L > The requesting system (umstep) took a huge performance hit, using only 30% userG > mode time instead of a more typical 60%-80%, and kernel and interrupt" modessI > went to 35% and 30%, respectively, and consistently, too.  This was thed only  > program running on the system. > K > Here's what I found about the problem.  When using a logical name to open  aiI > file (as in SDFDIR:filename), if the logical name is a search list thattH > contains a remote node name and disk/directory on the remote system as well as'G > a local disk/directory, a lot of time is spent in kernel mode and theh program F > slows to a crawl.  If the logical name is changed to be *solely* the remoteJ > node, disk, and directory, with *no* local  parts (ie, not a search list but 9 > still remote access), the program speeds up noticeably.a >pI > To demonstrate this, I wrote a short test program that would do nothinge exceptK > open a file on the remote system, read its entire contents, and close it,u theaD > proceed to the next file and repeat the process.  Nothing else.  I	 specifiedyB > SDFDIR:filename as the file to open, where filename is generated internally.lL > With SDFDIR defined as SAMPEX::$SDF:[SDF}, it went through at the expected? > pace, taking about 7-8 secs per file.  With SDFDIR defined asnJ > SAMPEX::$SDF:[SDF],$STEP_DATA:[DWYER.SDF],$STEP:[DWYER.STEP.DATA] (whereL > $STEP_DATA: and $STEP: are local disks) the program took 45 secs per file.& > This is almost a factor of 6 slower. >eI > I advised the user the change the logical name specification to improvey thepD > application speed.  However, tptb (the powers that be) will not be	 satisfiednD > with this; they'll ask me why at next week's meeting (or earlier). > J > Does anyone know of a reason why this should occur?  Is there some magicG > happening within RMS, some optimization, that is defeated by a search  list, or > some esoteric like that? >w > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.edut   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:35:27 -0700-& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!/ Message-ID: <uqnaa2h95c2uca@corp.supernews.com>s   David J. Dachtera wrote:  * > I did say "ready-for-prime-time", right?  F Thanks for clarifying what you meant by that. It wasn't clear that you? were referring to large VMS Itanium machines. In my neck of the B woods, that's not the only thing "ready-for-prime-time" means 8^). -- G
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:35:29 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!3 Message-ID: <5zPq9.15476$N_6.282074@news.chello.at>p  c In article <G9GdnYsxtoUm4TagXTWcpA@News.GigaNews.Com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:l. >"Jon" <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> wrote in message3 >news:7agmqu09khuho1ocrq4ocm51uq1e51q1j8@4ax.com...aH >> Having just come back from HPETS, HP reports that they will sell them* >> until 2006 and support them until 2011. >0H >We already knew that, as Atlant mentioned.  The problem is that  a) theG >press obviously got the message screwed up (interpreting 'no new Alpha G >development after 2004' to mean 'phased out in 2004') and  b) HPaq, asuH >usual, doesn't seem likely to lift a finger to set the record straight. >t  >  VMS is expected to be out for >> the Itanium by Q3-'03.t >mF >Not unless things have changed *a lot* since last report:  the 'real'M >(though IIRC still not 100% complete) release was pegged at around mid-2004,OJ >with only a very limited subset for 'early adopters' (I think that mostlyE >means ISVs who need some advance software to work with for their ownaL >products) any time in 2003.  And if one can trust Terry's latest article inF >The Inquirer VMS may be a bit behind even that schedule, since he nowM >projects the 'first boot' date as late December (rats - I think my own guess  >was right about now).  K My guess was about next week IIRC. So, even we're not optimist (an optimisti: in an uninformed pessimist) reality is again beyond us ;-)   -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERk% Network and OpenVMS system specialistl E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2002 07:40:24 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!3 Message-ID: <UKbUvv1cgPjB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3DAB8182.CABD78BD@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:t > Jon wrote: >> iH >> Having just come back from HPETS, HP reports that they will sell themI >> until 2006 and support them until 2011.  VMS is expected to be out forv >> the Itanium by Q3-'03.u  D Actually, they said "at least" until 2006 and "at least" until 2011.  I > ...and production-quality, ready-for-prime-time Itanics will be out ...u > when?   / Before HP stops selling Alphas.  By definition.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:59:57 +0200 ( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!3 Message-ID: <aoh3gl$m7h11$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>t  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:UKbUvv1cgPjB@eisner.encompasserve.org...e >o1 > Before HP stops selling Alphas.  By definition.i  I I saw two Itanium boxes a few weeks ago (4 CPUs, 8GB). I was told that HP I Germany could not rent them (- give them away) to key customers, such was  the lack of interest.n   The Alpha lives!   Simone   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:40:28 +0200l- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> & Subject: Re: [OT] The Mill clock tower' Message-ID: <3DABAA4C.33C9AB80@Free.fr>    Simon Clubley wrote: >  ../.. A > So how many of you have actually been to the top of the clock ?e  P I did. Thanks to Len Seagal. t'was around 1984 or 85, together with Christine Q.  and John C. I have the pictures.   Lots of stairs...a   D. -- r2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.570 ************************hancements and optimizations in Oracle Rdb.  , In 2002 Forums have been held in Nashua, N@    A    B    C    D    E    F    G    H    I    J    K    L    M    N    O    P    Q    R    S    T    U    V    W    X    Y    Z    [    \    ]    ^    _    `    a    b    c    d    e    f    g    h    i    j    k    l    m    n    o    p    q    r    s    t    u    v    w    x    y    z    {    |    }    ~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                º    ú    ĺ    ź    ƺ    Ǻ    Ⱥ    ɺ    ʺ    ˺    ̺    ͺ    κ    Ϻ    к    Ѻ    Һ    Ӻ    Ժ    պ    ֺ    ׺    غ    ٺ    ں    ۺ    ܺ    ݺ    ޺    ߺ    ູ    ẹ    ⺹    㺹    亹    庹    溹    纹    躹    麹    꺹    뺹    캹            ﺹ    𺹪    񺹪    򺹪    󺹪                                                                                         	    
            
                                                                                 !    "    #    $    %    &    '    (    )    *    +    ,    -    .    /    0    1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    :    ;    <    =    >    ?    @    A    B    C    D    E    F    G    H    I    J    K    L    M    N    O    P    Q    R    S    T    U    V    W    X    Y    Z    [    \    ]    ^    _    `    a    b    c    d    e    f    g    h    i    j    k    l    m    n    o    p    q    r    s    t    u    v    w    x    y    z    {    |    }    ~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                »    û    Ļ    Ż    ƻ    ǻ    Ȼ    ɻ    ʻ    ˻    ̻    ͻ    λ    ϻ    л    ѻ    һ    ӻ    Ի    ջ    ֻ    ׻    ػ    ٻ    ڻ    ۻ    ܻ    ݻ    ޻    ߻    ໹    ỹ    ⻹    㻹    仹    廹    滹    绹    軹    黹    껹    뻹    컹            ﻹ    𻹪    񻹪    򻹪    󻹪                                                    