1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 16 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 572       Contents:2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 RE: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines$ 3 node cluster w/shadowing questions& Re: 7.2-1 and 7.3-1 NFS and block size% Re: Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ? * Re: Booting a VMS cluster node using BOOTP Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP  Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP  RE: Hobbyist kit Contents 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 RE: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  MAIL$SYSTEM_FLAGS and DECNET! Mozilla doesn't like comp.os.vms? % RE: Mozilla doesn't like comp.os.vms?  Multiprocessing is DISABLED?  Re: Multiprocessing is DISABLED?  Re: Multiprocessing is DISABLED?  Re: Multiprocessing is DISABLED?' RE: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read  Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: Old DECC for VAX Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 for Hobbyist?  Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategicJ OpenVMS7.2-1 and 7.3-1 and NFS (seeking SOME sort of file shareing) HELP!!+ Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL * Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters* Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters* Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters* Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters* Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasters  OT: someone knows TrafficMagnet?$ Re: OT: someone knows TrafficMagnet?$ Re: OT: someone knows TrafficMagnet? OT: Will E. Coyote vs ACME Re: OT: Will E. Coyote vs ACME Re: OT: Will E. Coyote vs ACME Re: OT: Will E. Coyote vs ACME Re: PeopleSoft on VMS ' Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium ' Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium ' RE: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium ' Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium  Re: SIMH V2.10 beta 1  Re: SIMH V2.10 beta 1  Re: singular and plural of VAX Re: singular and plural of VAX Re: singular and plural of VAX0 Spit Brook Soft Corp. communicates the following" Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk?" Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk?& Re: stuck process after v7.3-1 upgrade Re: Tape Copy? Re: Tape Copy? Re: Tape Copy?0 Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (fixed yet?) The Good CEO Re: The Good CEO Re: The Good CEO. Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels& Re: VAXELN License for SIMH simulators4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption  RE: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption  Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption  Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption 7 VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) ! Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted? ! Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?  Re: Will E. Coyote vs ACME# Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:13:47 GMT " From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com>; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines & Message-ID: <3DAD0FCE.CB7EB635@hp.com>  T RECALL/SEARCH was on our suggestion list for some time. Yes we do listen to what you guys mumble N around here. Seeing demand from the field really helps moving an idea from the suggestion list to the to do list.   	 Guy Peleg  OpenVMS Engineering        JF Mezei wrote:    > Guy Peleg wrote:R > > I do not plan to backport RECALL/SEARCH but if there is high enough demand you > > never know.....  > 6 > I *demand* RECALL/SEARCH be available on 7.2 on VAX. >  > no, sorry... > 8 > I **DEMAND** RECALL/SEARCH be available on 7.2 on VAX. >   ---------- > H > Is that enough demand ? or need I repeat the line 5000 times ? :-) ;-) > O > Seriously though, out of curiosity, the RECALL/SEARCH was suggested here some K > time ago. Is it possible that the implementation is the result of the all L > mighty VMS engineers having seen the suggestion here and deciding it was a4 > good idea ? Or did it come though other channels ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:24:42 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines $ Message-ID: <3dad76d8$1@news.si.com>  H >The biggest thing we (DCL engineering team) are currently working on is EDCL.  >EDCL will increase K >the command line limit to 4KB and to 8KB using the hyphen sign. This means  >bigger symbols bigger commands K >better ODS-5 support and bigger and better everything. EDCL will ship with  the 
 >next OpenVMS 	 >version.   + Don't leave us VAX users orphans yet again.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:27:41 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines $ Message-ID: <3dad778d$1@news.si.com>  6 >Yes we do listen to what you guys mumble around here.  K Except when it involved pleas to make sure you add similar functionality to K OpenVMS VAX, _even when it's possible_ (i.e., not 64-bit-dependent).  Those 1 requests seems to be glossed over as unimportant.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:54:35 GMT " From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com>; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines & Message-ID: <3DAD7BCE.6AB8901A@hp.com>  - Okay, just to prove that we are listening....   I Please file a service call with your local support center and ask to port O RECALL/ALL and RECALL/SEARCH to VAX. The support center should escelate this to  Engineering and ask % the case to be assigned to Guy Peleg.    Guy    Brian Tillman wrote:  8 > >Yes we do listen to what you guys mumble around here. > M > Except when it involved pleas to make sure you add similar functionality to M > OpenVMS VAX, _even when it's possible_ (i.e., not 64-bit-dependent).  Those 3 > requests seems to be glossed over as unimportant.  > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com C > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com ? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent > > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 16 OCT 2002 15:53:36 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines 2 Message-ID: <16OCT02.15533670@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>  : In a previous article, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> wrote:I > The V7.3-1 DCL kit also contains new item codes for F$GETSYI to provide   > information about memory usage) > like TOTAL_MEMORY,USED_MEMORY and more.  >   P > I do not plan to backport RECALL/SEARCH but if there is high enough demand you > never know.....  >   O > The biggest thing we (DCL engineering team) are currently working on is EDCL.  > EDCL will increaseL > the command line limit to 4KB and to 8KB using the hyphen sign. This means  > bigger symbols bigger commandsP > better ODS-5 support and bigger and better everything. EDCL will ship with the > next OpenVMS
 > version.  L Out of curiosity - why is a hyphen sign required to get an 8KB command line?K Why not 8KB with or without the hyphen?  For that matter - why not 16K?  or  32K?  > That said, I *will* appreciate the larger command line limits.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:19:43 GMT " From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com>; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines & Message-ID: <3DAD8FC4.9BC9DFB2@hp.com>  M This change required the supervisor stack to be increased from 32KB to 128KB. T Going above 128KB might cause some problems. 4KB is what UNIX uses , and 8KB was the limit D we could strech without increasing the supervisor stack beyond 128K.   Guy  Dave Greenwood wrote:   < > In a previous article, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> wrote:K > > The V7.3-1 DCL kit also contains new item codes for F$GETSYI to provide " > > information about memory usage+ > > like TOTAL_MEMORY,USED_MEMORY and more.  > > R > > I do not plan to backport RECALL/SEARCH but if there is high enough demand you > > never know.....  > > Q > > The biggest thing we (DCL engineering team) are currently working on is EDCL.  > > EDCL will increaseN > > the command line limit to 4KB and to 8KB using the hyphen sign. This means" > > bigger symbols bigger commandsR > > better ODS-5 support and bigger and better everything. EDCL will ship with the > > next OpenVMS > > version. > N > Out of curiosity - why is a hyphen sign required to get an 8KB command line?M > Why not 8KB with or without the hyphen?  For that matter - why not 16K?  or  > 32K? > @ > That said, I *will* appreciate the larger command line limits. >  > Dave > --------------; > Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV J > Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 11:58:34 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley); Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines 3 Message-ID: <hkIQ9tuM5vHc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <j$2+hBxl9G09@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: z > In article <E$agPp00Nqxv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:M >> The DCL ECO just released for V7.3-1 includes the command $ recall/search.  >>  C >> Are there any plans to extend this to previous versions of VMS ?  > C >    You want the new feature, that's what the new software is.  So C >    DEC/Compaq/HP numbers the software release?  Either you change  >    the software or you don't.  >   I It's a lot easier to install a patch kit onto your current version of VMS I instead of upgrading your VMS version because there are far fewer changes 5 in a patch kit and hence far less testing to be done.    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:22:02 -0700 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>; Subject: RE: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines 0 Message-ID: <01C274FD.DFAA19D0@sulfer.icius.com>  " Ohhh, dangerous precedent, Guy....   Shane    -----Original Message-----) From: Guy Peleg [mailto:guy.peleg@hp.com] ) Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:55 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines     - Okay, just to prove that we are listening....   D Please file a service call with your local support center and ask to portG RECALL/ALL and RECALL/SEARCH to VAX. The support center should escelate  this to  Engineering and ask % the case to be assigned to Guy Peleg.    Guy    Brian Tillman wrote:  8 > >Yes we do listen to what you guys mumble around here. > M > Except when it involved pleas to make sure you add similar functionality to M > OpenVMS VAX, _even when it's possible_ (i.e., not 64-bit-dependent).  Those 3 > requests seems to be glossed over as unimportant.  > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com C > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com ? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent > > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:56:34 +0100 0 From: Adrian Graham <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk>- Subject: 3 node cluster w/shadowing questions 8 Message-ID: <e13rquccji9skclc67dg853gl1sls2s8qv@4ax.com>   Hi,   B One of my customers has a 3 node cluster consisting of 2 fat ES40sD with a DS10 as a quorum node. Each ES40 is on either side of a river> separated by a dedicated fibre link, and each ES40 has its own= Storageworks rack connected to 4 KZPAC controllers. Node 1 is E considered the primary for the cluster as it's the main one the users @ connect to; node 2 is considered a 'backup' or hot swap machine.5 Volume shadowing keeps the backup machine up to date.   F It's been quite a while since I was involved with such a setup so I've got a couple of questions.    @ 1) what's the correct dismount procedure for the shadow disks toF ensure as much as possible that a minicopy is performed when the nodesF are rebooted. I know that on the backup machine its shadow members canF be dismounted with /policy=minicopy, but what about the shadow master?  F 2) Say the primary is running an archiving batch job and it goes down;C how stable can we assume the remote shadow disks will be for moving = the archive job to the backup machine? The whole point of the C shadowing being present is for redundancy so I'd like to think they + wouldn't have to have to resort to backups!   C 3) When the primary is ready to come back into the cluster with the F backup machine still running the shadow disks should it be possible toF just bring it back in? Obviously at that point we're not worried aboutD minicopies, but general thinking is that the whole cluster has to be- rebooted for the primary to retake its 'role'    thanks in advance!   --( %SYSTEM-F-NOSIG, no signature file found   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:13:15 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: 7.2-1 and 7.3-1 NFS and block size ) Message-ID: <3DAD1F9B.9EFE6078@127.0.0.1>    DigiDemon wrote: >  > Afternoon all! > E > I'll go with the easy one first ;)  Just how many K or k is a block J > anyways?  I would LOVE to get a size of a directory (something like du-hF > from linux would rock), but I have yet to find anything like that :(  ) You can code something in DCL to do that.   D I wrote something that emulates the output of the UNIXen ls so I canE compare a VMS directory with one on another platform. I did it in DCL D and I use it as part of my web directory comparison procedures. FileG attribute lexical F$FILE_ATTRIBUTE and EOF and (512-) FFB will gain you  a byte size.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:38:40 +0000 (UTC) * From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>. Subject: Re: Adaptec 39160 (KZPEA) & OpenVMS ?, Message-ID: <aoiu0v$cgm$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  * Patrick Young <P.Young@unsw.edu.au> wrote:F > I don't have a 39160 card on hand, however it was mentioned it was a > stripped Window(tm) edition.  " Maybe 19160, like you said before.   G > Widgets that work with Tru64 are a different story than may work with 
 > OpenVMS ...   I I believe KZPEA is 39160 (maybe with some firmware changes or something.) 0 So 39160 should be pretty much supported in VMS.E And for example http://moon.hanya-n.org/comp/alpha/hct/scsi.html says I that SRM V5.8-1 of 164LX sees 39160 as KZPEA . Unfortunately I don't have G 164LX any more, but I have 164SX with V5.8-1 SRM . It does see 39160 as J pka and pkb channels but does not name it KZPEA and doesn't see disks. :-(G And if it would, there's still that little problem that VMS doesn't run  well in 164SX.  ? Someone, please try that in 164LX (or send me one 164LX board)!    Osmo   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:12:58 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 3 Subject: Re: Booting a VMS cluster node using BOOTP 2 Message-ID: <_lfr9.16$hc2.420952@news.cpqcorp.net>  D I would look for PXE booting in the future.  PXE is sort of BOOTP on3 steroids being used by Itanium for network booting.       % John E. Malmberg wrote in message ...  >Richard Brodie wrote:D > > "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de> wrote in message. > > news:ao3clm$1ib$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de... > > J > >>>EWA0_protocols on the station is set to BOOTP but the machine refusesD > >>>to boot. It seems that the server is not offering a boot to the
 > >>>station.  > >>H > >>I don't know if VMS is able to boot via BOOTP. But in order to do soH > >>the boot server must support the BOOTP protocol as well. Is this the	 > >>case?  > H >Currently booting an OpenVMS satellite node via BOOTP is not supported. > G >I am not aware if there is any commitment to support it in the future, C >but it seems like it would be a nice thing to have, as long as the  >console firmware supports it. > F > > I don't believe so. Or rather, I suppose you could persuade UCX toD > > serve the boot file to the client. However, I doubt it would fly- > > - how would you pass the boot parameters?  > I >The BOOTP protocol passes the parameters for the boot loader it does not H >transfer the boot image.  I have no idea how the bootp parameters wouldE >map to what the image that is normally downloaded and started by MOP 	 >expects.  > 8 >The name of the boot file can be one of the parameters. > G >The TFTP protocol is typically used to download the bootfile and other  >files in a general case.  >  >-John >wb8tyw@qsl.network  >Personal Opinion Only >    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:57:23 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> " Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP; Message-ID: <01KNQEWV42DE9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   E > When I restore a selected file or files from a save_set I use /LOG  D > so it'll tell me that the file has been processed. Then I do a fewC > CTRL-T's just to make sure that it's on to something else. Then I B > CTRL-Y and enter EXIT to close everything out. I've never had a % > problem with a file when I do this.   I It turns out that I just cut it off too soon.  My normal quick-and-dirty  F test USED=ALLOCATED is probably not valid for large files.  I did use H /LOG but the message was lost in broadcasts and CTRL-T's the first time.  I As someone pointed out to me, a more robust test is to do a DIR/DATE and  I wait until it changes from the time the file was restored to disk to the   original timestamp.   C > I, too, think that backup should be aware enough to know when it  @ > has processed all of the requested files, or there should be a > way to tell it so.  I Perhaps difficult since on tape one can have more than one file with the  " same name AND version number.  :-|   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 10:13:03 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) " Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP< Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0210160913.64b2d8e@posting.google.com>  K > As someone pointed out to me, a more robust test is to do a DIR/DATE and  K > wait until it changes from the time the file was restored to disk to the   > original timestamp.   K Good idea. I'm glad you posted it because the original didn't show up here.   K > Perhaps difficult since on tape one can have more than one file with the  $ > same name AND version number.  :-|  J I'd like to see: if  /select=file.whatever or any such where the directoryI is not specific, then the save_set would indeed be searched to the end as 
 it is now.  @ but: if /select=[specific.directory]file.whatever where the spec@ is unambiguous (allowing for versioning) then the end of search E is obvious and backup should end once the specified files are copied. C We shouldn't have more than one [specific.directory] in a save_set, 5 and if we do we aren't doing something right, are we?   3 I don't see that the logic would be that difficult.     DL Phillips   ------------------| Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KNQEWV42DE9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...G > > When I restore a selected file or files from a save_set I use /LOG  F > > so it'll tell me that the file has been processed. Then I do a fewE > > CTRL-T's just to make sure that it's on to something else. Then I D > > CTRL-Y and enter EXIT to close everything out. I've never had a ' > > problem with a file when I do this.  > K > It turns out that I just cut it off too soon.  My normal quick-and-dirty  H > test USED=ALLOCATED is probably not valid for large files.  I did use J > /LOG but the message was lost in broadcasts and CTRL-T's the first time. >   E > > I, too, think that backup should be aware enough to know when it  B > > has processed all of the requested files, or there should be a > > way to tell it so. > K > Perhaps difficult since on tape one can have more than one file with the  $ > same name AND version number.  :-|   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:28:56 -0400 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> " Subject: RE: Hobbyist kit ContentsK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B7E@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   E     Perhaps I'm dense but instead of distributing the entire CONDIST, H     wouldn't it make better sense to only distribute the stuff for which!     hobbyist licenses are issued?        WWW   " John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:J > What's wrong with Montgar placing images on a DVD that costs $5 to make.K > Organize it like  many other DVD distributions are when you are given the H > choice of receiving the software on one DVD or a mountain of CD's.  On these C > DVD's,  CD1, CD2, etc...are burned as complete images in separate I > directories. When you receive it you can copy the CD images onto single  CD's2 > at your leisure, and then install from the CD's.  K If this would enable them to do this affordable, I for one would be all for L it.  OTOH, I find it hard to believe that having 1 DVD made would be cheaper! than having 5 or 6 CD-ROM's made.   L Of course personally I've no problem with paying more, IF it means there are multiple CD's.                  Zane    ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800 919.874.3043   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:54:43 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> @ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!8 Message-ID: <8o6qqu8le1qba09vrls6belptqq45lme7i@4ax.com>  3 On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:38:50 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge" $ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:   >  >Fred is a moron:    YES  /  NO  >Andy is a moron:    YES /  NO  < Gordon is a moron. Probably only UK readers will get this :)   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:43:57 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy @ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!. Message-ID: <3DAD42ED.6020107@nospamn.sun.com>  2 How infantile first you decend into abuse and then0 you incite the choir to hum the chorus with you.  0 And since you raise the subject who is the moron& here and who is being treated as one ?    
 AlphaCide.  . Did you think that the Itanium will outperform5 Alpha arguments so indecently soon after the Alpha is 3 king of the hill and will be for 25 years arguments 0 were flattering to your customers intelligence ?   Alpha Performance.  8 Did you think that your arguments for Alphas performance8 advantage, unsupported by any evidence on your part that= supported these claims flattered your customers intelligence.    The wisdom of the merger   Ditto   ; This current marketing campaign HP-UX/PA-RISC -> HP-UX/IA64 ; hey presto it just happens but, no references, no installed 9 base, big teams of performance tuning engineers in Russia ? doing the work. Does this flatter your customers intelligence ?   ; I could go on through your ideas systems architecture, SPEC  etc.  = I would be the last person to call you a moron, the arguments : you put forward yes but its way to systematic for a moron.     Regards  Andrew Harrison    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > Tell you what Andy.  Lets have a vote.  I'll abide by it.  If you fail to 9 > get a majority NO vote, then we'll each just fade away.  > H > Everyone - please replay with your votes.  I'll abide by the majority. > K > Remember a YES vote means "Please go away".  A NO vote means "Please stay  > and keep writing". >  >   > Fred is a moron:    YES  /  NO > Andy is a moron:    YES /  NO  >  >  > 4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message' > <3DAC1C99.9090409@nospamn.sun.com>...  >  >>8 >>If anyone is a moron its you and your marketing people6 >>for thinking that people will beleive the transition@ >>stories without any backup references and with precious little7 >>chance of real customers haveing doen this due to the % >>tiny quantities of systems shipped.  >>7 >>As ever its a huge pleasure to see that you accuse me , >>of something that best describes yourself. >> >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 08:27:12 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0210160727.114c8041@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DAD42ED.6020107@nospamn.sun.com>... 4 > How infantile first you decend into abuse and then2 > you incite the choir to hum the chorus with you. > 2 > And since you raise the subject who is the moron( > here and who is being treated as one ? >  > AlphaCide. > 0 > Did you think that the Itanium will outperform7 > Alpha arguments so indecently soon after the Alpha is 5 > king of the hill and will be for 25 years arguments 2 > were flattering to your customers intelligence ? >  > Alpha Performance. > : > Did you think that your arguments for Alphas performance: > advantage, unsupported by any evidence on your part that? > supported these claims flattered your customers intelligence.  >  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >   E alpha has been shown to consistently outperform Sun and everyone else F on number of user ratings with oracle and everything else ... in otherD words, it takes 80 million sun,ibm chips to do what one or two alpha chips can do ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:13:46 -0700 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>@ Subject: RE: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!0 Message-ID: <01C274FC.CD7BABD0@sulfer.icius.com>  A Before any Americans called Gordon on this list get annoyed, he's D referring to an 80's punk tune called "Gordon is a moron" by someone calling himself "Jilted John".   Shane    -----Original Message-----, From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]* Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:55 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com @ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!    3 On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:38:50 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge" $ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:   >  >Fred is a moron:    YES  /  NO  >Andy is a moron:    YES /  NO  < Gordon is a moron. Probably only UK readers will get this :)   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:58:45 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Life after VMS?' Message-ID: <3DAD0014.4397B80F@Free.fr>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  ../.. B > Any chance that HP would be able change corporate culture of the > ex-Digital folks ?  O You hit the point, JF. Is HP interested in the DEC part (and people, and spirit 6 and products) of CPQ? This is to me the only question.  M A "normal" answer would be "it depends on the $$ it brings". This is why I do $ believe that VMS is not dead at all.   D    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:08:13 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Life after VMS?' Message-ID: <3DAD024D.30D4D27B@Free.fr>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > M > > I may be soon in the process of visiting a laaarge aircrafts manufacturer  > > company  > N > Since your headers say you're in Toulouse, I wonder whom that large aircraft > manufacturer might be?  N No chance that time, JF. The Customer is not in the Great Toulouse Area. Also,O there are two aircrafts manufacturers in France, and a few more in the European M Union (saab, messerchmidt, Harrier, Tupolev, ATR, etc.). I will not tell you.   L I talked to Airbus already. Their central management for DEC platforms is in$ Germany and I do not speak German...   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:19:27 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Life after VMS?K Message-ID: <rdeininger-1610020719280001@1cust159.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   6 In article <3DAC7084.1A994759@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:      > P >I'll escalate to Corporate when the Customers start saying (as Michelin told meJ >a few months ago) that their CPQ office does not call them back when they leave messages...   G You should escalate VMS-related problems like this to Sue Skonetski and D Mark Gorham AS SOON AS YOU HEAR ABOUT THEM.  There's no advantage toG letting the problem fester.  A calm "Customer (or potential customer) X H needs Y and has been unable to get needed information from Z" should get the ball rolling.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:33:59 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Life after VMS?' Message-ID: <3DAD4EA6.D68E8165@Free.fr>    Robert Deininger wrote:  > I > You should escalate VMS-related problems like this to Sue Skonetski and F > Mark Gorham AS SOON AS YOU HEAR ABOUT THEM.  There's no advantage toI > letting the problem fester.  A calm "Customer (or potential customer) X J > needs Y and has been unable to get needed information from Z" should get > the ball rolling.    Bob,  O As far as I know, Sue is officially the Editor in Chief for OpenVMS Times and a C part time participant in this forum for Marketing-relatd announces.   H Mark is an US manager. I do not see a French consultant reporting issues directly to the States.   P Now, if everyone here (and elsewhere) wants to know, it does not seem that thereI is someone in France or even in Europe who still cares about selling VMS.    Am I clear, this time?   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 07:01:54 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Life after VMS?3 Message-ID: <qMlzMMAF2ED$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3DAD4EA6.D68E8165@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:  > Robert Deininger wrote:  >>  J >> You should escalate VMS-related problems like this to Sue Skonetski andG >> Mark Gorham AS SOON AS YOU HEAR ABOUT THEM.  There's no advantage to J >> letting the problem fester.  A calm "Customer (or potential customer) XK >> needs Y and has been unable to get needed information from Z" should gete >> the ball rolling. >  > Bob, > Q > As far as I know, Sue is officially the Editor in Chief for OpenVMS Times and aLE > part time participant in this forum for Marketing-relatd announces.   E And she is well positioned to bring the attention of the right peopleeE to particular issues.  I talked to a third party in St. Louis who hadnE met with Mark but were waiting for their appointment with Sue.  Thesea; were discussions more lengthy than a brief hallway "hello".   J > Mark is an US manager. I do not see a French consultant reporting issues > directly to the States.O > R > Now, if everyone here (and elsewhere) wants to know, it does not seem that thereK > is someone in France or even in Europe who still cares about selling VMS.e >  > Am I clear, this time?  H Mark is the vice-president in charge of VMS.  There are people in Europe+ who report to him (through intermediaries).   F The real division is not geographic, but the fact that you are lookingF for the sales organization to do something.  Mark has as much clout inE Europe as in the US in that regard, which is to go to the Sales folksoE and say (more politely than I), "Why aren't you selling my product?".p  C The VMS testimonial for the bank fire in France came through Mark'seH organization (albeit before he was in charge).  Probably the CommerzbankF testimonial for VMS required approval from the customer in Europe even" though the incident was in the US.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 08:28:39 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Life after VMS?3 Message-ID: <PLfECFIn7OS$@eisner.encompasserve.org>(  i In article <Zj1r9.21$mxk1.12@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:e > < > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:AJtiH1NsOSMT@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >>G >>    Never put your trust in some other company.  Not HP, not IBM, notd+ >>    Sun, not Gartner, ...  Wait and plan.  >  > M > The corollary to this is never trust an employer or a vendor. Never believe N > what a vendor says unless it is in the contract with financial penalties forI > non-compliance. Keep your resume up-to-date and 3-6 months salary in an  > emergency fund.C  H    You can expect most companies to hold up to most promises most of theE    time.  You just can't bet your entire business on one promise froma    one vendor at any time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:58:47 +0200t$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> Subject: Re: Life after VMS?+ Message-ID: <00A158CE.85284B98.22@decus.de>f  ( "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:   > A few suggestions -t >t > [...]i > F > 5. Reference the following for the latest Oct 02 roadmaps (which now > mention OpenVMS V8.0)7D > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm >s > [...]c  C And it is stated on the very first page of this "Rolling Roadmaps":d  C "HP makes *NO* warranties regarding the accuracy of any informationeD disclosed. This time sensitive information is provided to facilitateD customer planning processes. HP does *NOT* warrant or represent thatF it will introduce any product or feature to which this information may& relate." (Negations emphasized by me.)  F So what is the relevance of this "Roadmap" really??? (The same is true for "Commitments".)e   Michael    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:36:29 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e Subject: Re: Life after VMS?F Message-ID: <hAgr9.4510$mxk1.855@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:PLfECFIn7OS$@eisner.encompasserve.org... K > In article <Zj1r9.21$mxk1.12@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John  Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:u > >e> > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:AJtiH1NsOSMT@eisner.encompasserve.org...d > >>I > >>    Never put your trust in some other company.  Not HP, not IBM, not-- > >>    Sun, not Gartner, ...  Wait and plan.e > >, > >cG > > The corollary to this is never trust an employer or a vendor. NeverR believeRL > > what a vendor says unless it is in the contract with financial penalties forLK > > non-compliance. Keep your resume up-to-date and 3-6 months salary in anu > > emergency fund.d >rJ >    You can expect most companies to hold up to most promises most of theG >    time.  You just can't bet your entire business on one promise from  >    one vendor at any time.    J Entirely true. Unless that vendor has shown themselves to be trustworth to4 their customer base, and even then one must be wary.  F And that's why people are attracted to unix like flies to sh*t. If youH aren't fussy about quality, there's more than one vendor and the porting4 effort is generally finite and estimable in advance.  I As to ChumHPaq DII-COE promises....we will support VMS version X.y for asaL long as you need it, but we won't be offering any newer versions after (pickK a date) unless we renegotiate the agreement on a case-by-case basis, and byeH the way...that's really going to cost you big time. But at least it's in writing.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:52:22 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>R% Subject: MAIL$SYSTEM_FLAGS and DECNETm; Message-ID: <01KNQN0JS9DE9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  & I see the following in SYLOGICALS.COM:  3 $!                      ======    WARNING    ======e $!D $!     Make certain that the DECnet MAIL parser uses the DECnet-PlusD $!     (DECnet Phase V) parser regardless of whether you are runningF $!     DECnet Phase IV or DECnet Phase V.  In other words, always have: $!     at least bit 4 (value 16) set in MAIL$SYSTEM_FLAGS. $!3 $!                      ===========================.  H Can anyone give (or point me to) some information on this?  I'd like to B know the general background.  I'd also like to know some specific  answers, in particular  G    o  Is, say, 7 instead of 23 OK if there is no DECnet running at all?o  C    o  Is, say, 7 instead of 23 OK MAIL never goes via DECnet, even 2E       though it is running for other reasons (i.e. all mail is eitherw       local or via TCPIP)?  F    o  If I'm running DECnet Phase IV, what does having at least bit 4 !       (value 16) set actually do?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:33:41 -0700u' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>A* Subject: Mozilla doesn't like comp.os.vms?+ Message-ID: <aok0sm$cup$1@naig.caltech.edu>g  ? I've been trying to read comp.os.vms through the mail/newsgroupnE tool first in Netscape 7 and then in Mozilla 1.1 on RH 7.3 (Dual AMD   system).  ( This has not been working out very well.  9 Both of these browsers eventually have some fatal problem2; with this group.  The most common symptom is that they stopo4 being able to download new messages from the server.G The "fix" for that is to unsubscribe the group, exit the browser, startgD it up again, and resuscribe.  The problem that's really grim is that2 sometimes changing View->Messages or View->Sort_byA hangs not only the browser, but the enter X11 server, so that thev; only way out is to nuke the server with ctrl-alt-backspace.A  B I've seen the "no download" glitch with other newsgroups, but onlyG comp.os.vms has locked the system.  Probably because it is far and awayu, the highest volume newsgroup I subscribe to.  0 Does mozilla have these problems on VMS as well?  E Is there anything one can do to prevent them from happening (besides   moving to another news reader).s   Thanks,.     -- b David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:22:39 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>d. Subject: RE: Mozilla doesn't like comp.os.vms?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEKMFOAA.tom@kednos.com>   = I installed Mozilla on 7.3 and found it was so far from primee= time, that it wasn't even worth the effort to figure out what > might be wrong.  I use Opera on W2K, and am quite pleased.  It< is also avaialble for Linux.  Netscape on Tru64 is marginal.   >-----Original Message-----T/ >From: David Mathog [mailto:mathog@caltech.edu] * >Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:34 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ >Subject: Mozilla doesn't like comp.os.vms?d >  >n@ >I've been trying to read comp.os.vms through the mail/newsgroupF >tool first in Netscape 7 and then in Mozilla 1.1 on RH 7.3 (Dual AMD 	 >system).  >a) >This has not been working out very well.g > : >Both of these browsers eventually have some fatal problem< >with this group.  The most common symptom is that they stop5 >being able to download new messages from the server.sH >The "fix" for that is to unsubscribe the group, exit the browser, startE >it up again, and resuscribe.  The problem that's really grim is thatr3 >sometimes changing View->Messages or View->Sort_bycB >hangs not only the browser, but the enter X11 server, so that the< >only way out is to nuke the server with ctrl-alt-backspace. >eC >I've seen the "no download" glitch with other newsgroups, but only H >comp.os.vms has locked the system.  Probably because it is far and away- >the highest volume newsgroup I subscribe to.- >-1 >Does mozilla have these problems on VMS as well?1 >9F >Is there anything one can do to prevent them from happening (besides   >moving to another news reader). >e >Thanks, >A >C >-- 
 >David Mathog  >mathog@caltech.edut? >Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltechb >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.I; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).rA >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002o >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:54:13 -0500a& From: Mike <Mike_Hutcheson@baylor.edu>% Subject: Multiprocessing is DISABLED?n, Message-ID: <aoi2hu$vus$1@ccis12.baylor.edu>   Dear VMS gurus,r  I Hi.  I have a four-processor AS 2100 5/250 running OpenVMS 7.3 that only eI appears to be running on one processor at the moment.  This is a cluster oI member that shares a system disk with an AS 4100 5/600.  I first noticed nC the problem when running MONITOR SYSTEM and noticed that CPU total  I percentage being 100 instead of the expected 400.  I issued the SHOW CPU   command and got the following:  	 $SHOW CPUt BOGUS, a AlphaServer 2100 5/250 H Multiprocessing is DISABLED. Uniprocessing synchronization image loaded.   Primary CPU = 000-	 CPU sets:     Active               0     Configure            0O    Powered Down         None    Potential            0o    Autostart            0-3-    Failover             None  K I then when into SYSGEN and checked the MULTIPROCESSING parameter.  Here's U what I saw:b  I Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  DJ Dynamic--------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   L ----  -------MULTIPROCESSING                 3          3         0         
  4 Coded-valu0   (Sorry about the wrap around)l  K According to the help on the multiprocessing parameter, a value of 3 tells EI VMS to load the SYSTEM_SYNCHRONIZATION_MIN.EXE image if two or more CPUs >* are present and the system is SMP capable.  K This system used to show four CPUs.  Quite honestly I'm not sure when that s changed.  L I haven't been able to bring the system to console mode.  Is there a way to ' check the console variables within VMS?s  G Any suggestions on where to start looking?  Possibly a licensing issue?t   Thanks for your help,   * Mike Hutcheson (Mike_Hutcheson@baylor.edu) Systems Manager (254) 710-41103 Baylor University - Information Technology Servicese   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:55:44 +0200 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>) Subject: Re: Multiprocessing is DISABLED?r/ Message-ID: <aoj9gj$bf74@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>$   Mike wrote:a > Dear VMS gurus,m > K > Hi.  I have a four-processor AS 2100 5/250 running OpenVMS 7.3 that only rK > appears to be running on one processor at the moment.  This is a cluster iK > member that shares a system disk with an AS 4100 5/600.  I first noticed VE > the problem when running MONITOR SYSTEM and noticed that CPU total  K > percentage being 100 instead of the expected 400.  I issued the SHOW CPU e  > command and got the following: >  > $SHOW CPUo! > BOGUS, a AlphaServer 2100 5/250HJ > Multiprocessing is DISABLED. Uniprocessing synchronization image loaded. >  > Primary CPU = 000  > CPU sets:  >    Active               0t >    Configure            0w >    Powered Down         None >    Potential            0e >    Autostart            0-3m >    Failover             None >   H Potential is 0, may be some of the CPU's are defect, that would explain,- why the UNIPROC. image was loaded at startup.   M > I then when into SYSGEN and checked the MULTIPROCESSING parameter.  Here's s
 > what I saw:  > K > Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  dL > Dynamic--------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   N > ----  -------MULTIPROCESSING                 3          3         0          >  4 Coded-valu- >  > (Sorry about the wrap around)1 > M > According to the help on the multiprocessing parameter, a value of 3 tells lK > VMS to load the SYSTEM_SYNCHRONIZATION_MIN.EXE image if two or more CPUs @, > are present and the system is SMP capable. > M > This system used to show four CPUs.  Quite honestly I'm not sure when that s
 > changed. > N > I haven't been able to bring the system to console mode.  Is there a way to ) > check the console variables within VMS?e > I > Any suggestions on where to start looking?  Possibly a licensing issue?  >  > Thanks for your help,  > , > Mike Hutcheson (Mike_Hutcheson@baylor.edu)  > Systems Manager (254) 710-41105 > Baylor University - Information Technology Servicesn  E May be you should shutdown the system and check, if the firmware sees'
 als the CPU'si -- t  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regardsh   Karl Rohwedder               e   iT-Ingenieurteam     r Ellernbruch 11 D-38112 Braunschweig a  . E.Mail:  karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:27:02 +0200 + From: Roland Barmettler <rob@bbp.ch.remove>w) Subject: Re: Multiprocessing is DISABLED?d7 Message-ID: <20021016122702.546b4d45.rob@bbp.ch.remove>u   Hi MikeT  E > Hi.  I have a four-processor AS 2100 5/250 running OpenVMS 7.3 thatl< > only appears to be running on one processor at the moment.  3 Do you have the licences for the other three CPUs ?e$ Otherwise it will only run on one...   Greetings, Roland   F --------------- bbp - Biveroni Batschelet Partners AG ----------------:              Bahnhofstrasse 28, CH-5401 Baden, SwitzerlandF ----------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:45:19 +0100i( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>) Subject: Re: Multiprocessing is DISABLED? ) Message-ID: <3DAD514F.420B365D@127.0.0.1>u   Mike wrote:1 > I > Any suggestions on where to start looking?  Possibly a licensing issue?i >   F On board CPU errors can cause CPUs to 'fall out' of the configuration,F unfortunately, you'll need to drop to console (shutdown) and clear theF error(s) at that level. Of course it is possible you have a hard errorG with the CPU which won't clear. However it's unlikely to be all 3. HaveoD you the required number of PSUs for the number of CPUs, and are theyG working. Don't assume that a PSU is OK if the fans are spinning and the 6 lights are on, check the air is warm from the exhaust.   IIRC, the syntax ise   P0>>> SHOW ERROR CPU nnA P0>>> CLEAR_ERROR ALL1  B and the system needs resetting and all should come back to normal.  G If I've got something wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected. These are from-G my rough notes and it is so long since I've had to do this that I can'trG vouch the the accuracy, and I've nothing handy to have a quick play on.E   -- e? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Scienceso nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:07:01 -0700w$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>0 Subject: RE: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read0 Message-ID: <01C274FB.EB0100C0@sulfer.icius.com>  G It's been a while, but IIRC the buffer has to be big enough to hold the G terminator. That means you don't get the single bytes back, you have todD enter enough to fill the buffer before it returns. I ended up with aF nice little tree structure that held the key sequences, and walking itE as the characters came in. When you reach the end of a branch, you'veo got a "key".   Shanen   -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]' Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:14 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com60 Subject: Re: Ncurses porting and cbreak(ed) read     Shane Smith wrote: > H > It isn't too hard in QIO, from memory all you need is a 1ch buffer andH > set it up to return when the buffer is full. You do need a little codeI > to cope with keypresses that generate multiple bytes, but that's prettyw > easy too.>  F The terminal driver is capable of handling multi-byte terminators. The IOE status block contains and offset into the buffer where the terminatorg begins. ( It contains a total count of charcaters.  G The IO status buffer contains numbe of bytes read, number of terminatora bytesi4 read, abnd offset of the terminator into the buffer.  H So if you enter "A" followed by PF10, (assuming PF10 generates 4 bytes), you'daF get a total of 5 bytes in the buffer, the "offset to terminator" would pointnH to byte 1, you'd have a terminator size of 4, so you can deduct that you haveE one byte of data followed by 4 bytes of terminator from the IO statusC block.  D The question the becomes: can the above work if you specify a buffer	 size of 1 D for the read operation ?  (i.e. will QIO deposit a 4 byte terminator into theE user buffer, with terminator offset of 0, if you secified a read of 1r bytes ?    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Oct 2002 05:48:32 GMT) From: rankin@pactechdata.com (Pat Rankin). Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAX / Message-ID: <15OCT200222473130@pactechdata.com>   - In article <3DACCCC4.B8BB2593@videotron.ca>,\h2  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes... > Simon Brown wrote:L >> The customer has an older version of AACRT??? and will not allow AACRT060L >> to be installed, so I have to get an older version of the compiler, which, >> a kind person is making available for me. >aK > Out of curiosity, couldn't you simply provide the object modules and link < > them on their older system with whatever C-RTL they have ?  ?      If you compile the code with DEC C, it is going to convert0? calls made to the C library functions into ones using the namesmA in DECC$SHR.  So a call to strcpy() will end up as a reference toF/ decc$strcpy() in the object file, for instance.o  B      You could alter that behavior via the /prefix_library_entries> qualifier, but DEC C still handles main() entirely differently than what VAXCRTL supports.t  I > I realise that the AACRTL patches will fix problems, but do they change  > functionality ?   C      It isn't an issue of patches.  Without installing the AACRT060c@ kit, there won't be any DECC$SHR at all on a V5.5-2 system.  AndC without DECC$SHR, object files from DEC C aren't going to be of anymC use unless you know _exactly_ what you're doing.  Anyone needing too6 ask about this is unlikely to fall into that category.  B      There wasn't any explanation of why VAX C has been ruled out.B Either it or GNU C will generate code that works without much fussB on V5.x systems, whether compiled directly on the old system or on< a newer one with object files copied back for linking there.  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@pactechdata.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:02:15 +0200-( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAXe3 Message-ID: <aoivd7$mtopp$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>K   Hi Pat,-  H Two reasons: [1] government site, [2] I'm attacking the LGI_CALLOUTS andE can't get it to link up using VAXC on my development systems (6.1 andiI 7.3-1). As I'm using DECC on AXP I decided to try and use a compiler thatt will do this business.  J As per a previous answer to John Malmberg, I'll try and get rid of the UTCL routines (I can't remember which are being used) - they are not essential. I  can use system services instead.  A I should have thought of this myself, but I've been using VMS toooK infrequently lately - Windows and UNIX (how I hate that word) are where the  action has been.  J This is all part of a multi-platform (Windows, UNIX, VMS, AS/400, Netware)E and multi-product (ORACLE, Sybase) password synchronisation solution.u --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.chl  6 "Pat Rankin" <rankin@pactechdata.com> wrote in message) news:15OCT200222473130@pactechdata.com...r/ > In article <3DACCCC4.B8BB2593@videotron.ca>,\d > D >      There wasn't any explanation of why VAX C has been ruled out.D > Either it or GNU C will generate code that works without much fussD > on V5.x systems, whether compiled directly on the old system or on> > a newer one with object files copied back for linking there. >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:58:23 +0200 ( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> Subject: Re: Old DECC for VAXo3 Message-ID: <aoiv5v$ml4c2$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>   8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message7 news:DA3r9.32270$m92.6210814@news1.news.adelphia.net...t >ED > The AACRTL does not supply all of the newer routines.  Some of the@ > routines like the UTC routines will not be present because the2 > underlying support is not then in OpenVMS 5.5-2. > G > Some routines can be supplied by linking with the "Backport" run timer( > library, see the file DECC$CRTL.README > G > None of these problems will be fixed by installing an older compiler.t >    John,n  J Thanks for this - exactly my problem - the UTC routines. I'll have to code< these up myself. Anyway, I'll look at this over the weekend. --& Simon Brown, CH-7031 Laax, Switzerland
 www.hb9drv.ch3   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:22:13 GMT ( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 for Hobbyist?< Message-ID: <FZbr9.164358$121.4247923@twister.austin.rr.com>  ; In message <anj19j0ji2@enews1.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy"r# <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:c8 > Michael Rice <MichaelARice@no-spam.knology.net> wrote:I > > Good to know...although I still don't have anywhere to get the media.  > K > I would assume that you can buy a Media Kit from HP, I know I was able toD > buy 7.2-1H1 from Compaq. >  > 		Zane  < Shoot, I've got a 7.3 Alpha kit I'd trade for a 7.3 VAX kit.   -- i# Jay E. Morris Epsilon 3 Productionse@ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:51:21 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategict8 Message-ID: <8b6qquci9djr8e86b8o7pecqhstu7jd716@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:19:28 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:    L >Saw your more recent post about moving to SAP. If VMS *IS* strategic to HP,I >have they articulated to you how they are going to work with SAP to have09 >release parity of SAP on VMS with all the unix variants?H  B In actual fact I've been told pretty much point blank from severalA sources (including a seemingly otherwise VMS friendly European HP:> classic manager) that SAP on VMS just won't happen. To me this= continues to be the strongest counter-indication to VMS beingY strategic to the "new HP". >PK >I'm afraid that the only thing 'strategic' about VMS to HP is the strategy-L >they use to milk the remaining customer base out of their money for as longI >as possible before abandoning them or encouraging them to move to HP-UX.t >!L >Please don't tell me that your organization will be considering HP hardwareM >for your SAP implementation. Tell HP you won't be and see if that encouragesn >them to work with SAP for VMS.   E SAP on Solaris is a distinct possibility. And I've said that directlyi$ to Compaq/HP on numerous occasions.      -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:56:17 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyn! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategic . Message-ID: <3DAD45D1.6000805@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DABFCA2.6030104@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > K >    Now you asked for "one single valid reason why a Sun/IBM account that  C >    does not have any OpenVMS systems would be interested in this s >    marketing programme". > K >    You did not ask for a reason _present within this marketing program's iH >    materials_, as you have since implied.  You didn't ask it that way,= >    so I'm under no obligation to reduce my answers to such.. >     : I think most people would assume that because I refered to7 the marketing program directly that I was also refering. to its materials as well.i  9 Since by everyones admission there are no other marketinga: program's from HPQ that promote your three conjectures you= also cannot be confusing the marketing program I am referring- to with anything else.    : So your response is either a fairly bad attempt at spin or more CF, which is it ??A   Regardsa Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:21:20 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategicrF Message-ID: <kJdr9.2995$%h2.1417@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:8b6qquci9djr8e86b8o7pecqhstu7jd716@4ax.com...H > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:19:28 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >o >eJ > >Saw your more recent post about moving to SAP. If VMS *IS* strategic to HP, K > >have they articulated to you how they are going to work with SAP to haveg; > >release parity of SAP on VMS with all the unix variants?- >-D > In actual fact I've been told pretty much point blank from severalC > sources (including a seemingly otherwise VMS friendly European HPo@ > classic manager) that SAP on VMS just won't happen. To me this? > continues to be the strongest counter-indication to VMS being_ > strategic to the "new HP". > >tD > >I'm afraid that the only thing 'strategic' about VMS to HP is the strategyI > >they use to milk the remaining customer base out of their money for ast longK > >as possible before abandoning them or encouraging them to move to HP-UX.e > >rE > >Please don't tell me that your organization will be considering HPw hardwareD > >for your SAP implementation. Tell HP you won't be and see if that
 encourages! > >them to work with SAP for VMS.  > G > SAP on Solaris is a distinct possibility. And I've said that directly.% > to Compaq/HP on numerous occasions.t    J So it would *appear* that the brochure targeting Sun customers (your firstJ post in this thread) is in fact being sent to Sun customers after all. ;-)  K And the reality of the situation will be that nobody at HP, not even GorhamoG or Marcello, will get worked up over this when your organization buys anF boatload of Sun gear and cancels your service contracts on VMS and theI Alpha's. It will be just another, 'Oh well - there's another one we lost.-I How long until I can retire with a full pension? Best not rock the boat.'cL Stallard will be the only one p*ssed off because he didn't get an HP-UX saleH out of the deal, but he won't be concerned that another VMS customer has! vanished from HP's customer list.,  L But look on the bright side of all this - Andrew will probably be calling on you.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 08:32:06 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategic 3 Message-ID: <SFq+$xFmYbwg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3DAD45D1.6000805@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > < > I think most people would assume that because I refered to9 > the marketing program directly that I was also referingi > to its materials as well.e >   A    Didn't I just say something about not making assumptions?  No?aE    Well I did now.  YOu left open a crack and I drove a wedge throughn    it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:37:02 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategic 8 Message-ID: <g7tqqugnshpo2sajhefot5ssqnu61jnejq@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:21:20 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:    K >So it would *appear* that the brochure targeting Sun customers (your first K >post in this thread) is in fact being sent to Sun customers after all. ;-)o  F We already have a reasonable Solaris box onsite - purchased just a few@ months ago. It will take over as our primary divisional EuropeanC web/intranet/content management server. Solaris was the recommendedeE platform of the third party contracted to do most of the work. As theaA system is Apache/Java/Oracle 9i based it would probably have beeneC theoretically possible to run this under VMS but the ISV had no VMSwE platform experience and didn't even know VMS was still current! Soundh familiar...T  E Currently these services are provided by Compaq NT servers. So that'sa, already one loss to Compaq although not VMS.   >EL >And the reality of the situation will be that nobody at HP, not even GorhamH >or Marcello, will get worked up over this when your organization buys aG >boatload of Sun gear and cancels your service contracts on VMS and the-  C I have spoken to both Marcello and Gorham about this. Gorham just adC few months ago in Reading (UK). Mark understood perfectly well. ButMC quite simply nobody within the Alpha/VMS group has the authority todE spend the kind of money SAP were looking for. And it was a lot I haveD	 to admit.d  J >Alpha's. It will be just another, 'Oh well - there's another one we lost.J >How long until I can retire with a full pension? Best not rock the boat.'M >Stallard will be the only one p*ssed off because he didn't get an HP-UX saleeI >out of the deal, but he won't be concerned that another VMS customer hasH" >vanished from HP's customer list.  D We have tons of HP-UX systems on site and have done for years. TheseE run high end CAD/CAM and Oracle based engineering databases. Once allhB that ran on VMS (and VMS still runs some of our Oracle engineeringB databases). The long term future of these HP-UX systems is also in@ question.  I did manage a minor win recently when another of ourD European plants decided to buy a new DS10 to replace an old MicroVAXE rather than phase out the app. But once we phase out MANMAN in favourr5 of SAP these little apps will die slowly one by one. g  M >But look on the bright side of all this - Andrew will probably be calling on  >you.   F I regularly receive Sun snail-mail brochures addressed to "Alan Greig,B VMS Systems Manager" My favourite has to be the "XPensive" poster.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:45:12 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>U! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategicnE Message-ID: <sIgr9.1828$Q3S.692@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>h  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:g7tqqugnshpo2sajhefot5ssqnu61jnejq@4ax.com...H > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:21:20 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >- >-G > >So it would *appear* that the brochure targeting Sun customers (yourm first I > >post in this thread) is in fact being sent to Sun customers after all.@ ;-)r >cH > We already have a reasonable Solaris box onsite - purchased just a fewB > months ago. It will take over as our primary divisional EuropeanE > web/intranet/content management server. Solaris was the recommendediG > platform of the third party contracted to do most of the work. As theeC > system is Apache/Java/Oracle 9i based it would probably have beencE > theoretically possible to run this under VMS but the ISV had no VMSoG > platform experience and didn't even know VMS was still current! Soundw
 > familiar...a   All to familiar.   >oG > Currently these services are provided by Compaq NT servers. So that'sn. > already one loss to Compaq although not VMS.  & But it is a loss to server reliability      G > >And the reality of the situation will be that nobody at HP, not evene GorhamJ > >or Marcello, will get worked up over this when your organization buys aI > >boatload of Sun gear and cancels your service contracts on VMS and theI > E > I have spoken to both Marcello and Gorham about this. Gorham just aOE > few months ago in Reading (UK). Mark understood perfectly well. ButtE > quite simply nobody within the Alpha/VMS group has the authority torG > spend the kind of money SAP were looking for. And it was a lot I havep > to admit.h  J That's because there's no commitment within HP to get more than 1 customerB using SAP on VMS (read 'marketing'), so they look at the amount ofK investment required, divide it by 1 customer and determine that there is no  payback.    L > >Alpha's. It will be just another, 'Oh well - there's another one we lost.L > >How long until I can retire with a full pension? Best not rock the boat.'J > >Stallard will be the only one p*ssed off because he didn't get an HP-UX saleK > >out of the deal, but he won't be concerned that another VMS customer hasa$ > >vanished from HP's customer list. > F > We have tons of HP-UX systems on site and have done for years. TheseG > run high end CAD/CAM and Oracle based engineering databases. Once alleD > that ran on VMS (and VMS still runs some of our Oracle engineeringD > databases). The long term future of these HP-UX systems is also inB > question.  I did manage a minor win recently when another of ourF > European plants decided to buy a new DS10 to replace an old MicroVAXG > rather than phase out the app. But once we phase out MANMAN in favouro6 > of SAP these little apps will die slowly one by one.  + And you will be migrating to HP-UX/Itanic??o       A new slogan for HP:  D HP - the global hardware and services company. Serving our customers one-by-one to Sun and IBM.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:23:48 -0600-) From: "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> S Subject: OpenVMS7.2-1 and 7.3-1 and NFS (seeking SOME sort of file shareing) HELP!! , Message-ID: <aok09n01o2g@enews3.newsguy.com>   Good morning all!e  I I am having a rough time with NFS and TCPIP 5.3 and 5.0 playing together.0G So far I have tried just to mount from the same machine..here is what If get:    < %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-E-MOUNTFAIL, error mounting _DNFS1:[000000]! -SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout    The commands I used were:.2 MAP "/dra0" TEST7$DRA0: (tried just DRA0: as well) ADD EXPORT "/dra0" /HOST=*/ ADD PROXY /UID=4 GID=1 /HOST=* (SYSTEM account)c  H I get that error message above when trying to mount...has ANYONE got anyJ clue on how to get this to fly?  I am pulling my hair out trying to figure it out =(  Thanks!   Jamesa   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:00:28 +0100d% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL8 Message-ID: <l07qquk63oi9711t6aaend3ltgimt8vfr7@4ax.com>  7 On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:07:58 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"s <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  > >TELNET to a system running Multinet - "CREATOR" points to the >MULTINET_SERVER process.- > E >I don't have access to a V7.3+ system running either TCPware or UCX.c  ?  Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-15   Username: censored	 Password:.D    Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-1 on	 node XXXX7?     Last interactive login on Thursday,  3-OCT-2002 16:28:36.74nC     Last non-interactive login on Thursday,  3-OCT-2002 11:22:04.74 4 Setting up symbols for foreign command line usage...% JAVA$FILENAME_CONTROLS now set to: -1H $ tcpip sho verc  ?   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 1r4   on a AlphaStation 400 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3-1  ) $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR")h 0000010B* $ pipe sho sys | search sys$input 0000010BF 0000010B JOB_CONTROL     HIB      8    32343   0 00:00:29.63        55 79 $h   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 05:41:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL3 Message-ID: <jonFViIGdzV9@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  [ In article <3DACC9FE.7BEA1ED2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:l  G > RUN/DETACHED - "CREATOR" points to the process where the RUN/DETACHEDs > command was executed.  > ' > SUBMIT - "CREATOR" points to the JBC.e > 4 > Login at the console - "CREATOR" points to the JBC  G I would presume the same is true for Login from a normal terminal line.i  ? > TELNET to a system running Multinet - "CREATOR" points to the. > MULTINET_SERVER process.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:07:00 GMTs From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGs4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL0 Message-ID: <00A1586B.16018184@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <3DACC9FE.7BEA1ED2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:c >Joshua Cope wrote:  >> nE >> On Alpha V7.3-1, there's a new GETJPI code for the parent process:M >> Y. >>   $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR") >>      20602D44 >h >Works on V7.3, also.  >  >Interesting bits: >.F >RUN/DETACHED - "CREATOR" points to the process where the RUN/DETACHED >command was executed.  ( I believe that was its intended purpose.    & >SUBMIT - "CREATOR" points to the JBC. >r3 >Login at the console - "CREATOR" points to the JBCa   Yes?    > >TELNET to a system running Multinet - "CREATOR" points to the >MULTINET_SERVER process.    ... and it shouldn't be?       --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            e5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:19:07 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>i4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL5 Message-ID: <aok01g$mnnu0$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>i   David J. Dachtera wrote: >...? > TELNET to a system running Multinet - "CREATOR" points to thea > MULTINET_SERVER process. >)F > I don't have access to a V7.3+ system running either TCPware or UCX.   $ netcu show ver5 TCPware(R) V5.5-3 Copyright (c) 2001 Process SoftwareM6 OpenVMS version V7.3 booted on 4-MAY-2002 10:30:59.00,$ running on a AlphaServer 2100 5/250.. $ write sys$output "''f$getjpi("","creator")'" 0000020B# $ pipe show sys | sear sys$pipe 20bl4 0000020B JOB_CONTROL HIB 10 2928 0 00:00:04.29 58 78   --o Peter WeaverD Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,A nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it  sub-contracts to.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:07:46 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a3 Subject: Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toasterst8 Message-ID: <mg7qquk0f6ijflukmsl5026fsha6dg2cri@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:42:14 -0400, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote:   > 4 >But TOA0: is just a template (like LTA0:) isn't it? > J >Terminal TOA0:, device type unknown, is unplugged, heated, slice-oriented9 >    device, darkness control, device is a template only.  >h= >    Error count                    0    Operations completed  >02 >    Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC	 >[SYSTEM] 1 >    Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prote >S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W< >    Reference count                0    Default buffer size >8    Surely "Default butter size" :-)   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:08:21 +0100 ' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>j3 Subject: Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toastersD2 Message-ID: <161020021208219253%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  C In article <mg7qquk0f6ijflukmsl5026fsha6dg2cri@4ax.com>, Alan Greigh <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:f  H > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:42:14 -0400, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote: >  > > 6 > >But TOA0: is just a template (like LTA0:) isn't it? > >aL > >Terminal TOA0:, device type unknown, is unplugged, heated, slice-oriented; > >    device, darkness control, device is a template only.- > >v? > >    Error count                    0    Operations completed  > >04 > >    Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC > >[SYSTEM]i3 > >    Owner process ID        00000000    Dev ProtD > >S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W> > >    Reference count                0    Default buffer size > >8 > " > Surely "Default butter size" :-)  + Now you are talking about layered products.    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Oct 02 08:21:39 EDT From: grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu3 Subject: Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toastersp/ Message-ID: <mfPnCn4yX3fJ@mcduck.acs.wmich.edu>y  Z In article <aohv07$mp08s$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: > > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> schreef in bericht/ > news:BSzSAJjt+EiA@eisner.encompasserve.org...e
 >> In articlelI > <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B80@rlghncst964.usps.gov>, VAXVMSy > <bounce@notmail.com> writes: >> >8 >> > But TOA0: is just a template (like LTA0:) isn't it? >> >? >> > Terminal TOA0:, device type unknown, is unplugged, heated,i > slice-oriented= >> >     device, darkness control, device is a template only.e >> >C >> >     Error count                    0    Operations completed 0M? >> >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC [SYSTEM] G >> >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,WrC >> >     Reference count                0    Default buffer size 80a >> >>    Oh, yes! >>K > Future release suggestion: could I have cluster support for TOA0: since IaJ > work for a large catering company and we want to have our toast done the
 > same way...e > D Isn't that what Java (formerly Oak) was originally for? To provide aF standard control language for Internet Applicances? And so it wouldn't matter who made the toaster? s   '-)    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 08:36:27 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)33 Subject: Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toastersa3 Message-ID: <skVHI3mNeaj1@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  Z In article <aohv07$mp08s$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: > K > Future release suggestion: could I have cluster support for TOA0: since I0J > work for a large catering company and we want to have our toast done the
 > same way...v  0    TSSCP (toast slice service control protocol)?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:41:53 -0400A# From: "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com> 3 Subject: Re: OT Humour - If Microsoft made toastersi/ Message-ID: <aok4sk$2bt$1@license1.unx.sas.com>   - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in messageS/ news:aohv07$mp08s$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...eK > Future release suggestion: could I have cluster support for TOA0: since I J > work for a large catering company and we want to have our toast done the
 > same way...-  L Yes, but the way this will play out is that every major vendor will suddenlyG declare that they support "real" toast clustering, with ads involving ahG glass room full of alleged toast clusters and a helium balloon floatinghC nearby.  Most of these vendors do not understand what a cluster is.s  E *  Many of these will actually be rack mount systems where a bunch of J unrelated toasters sit on shelves, sharing a common cooling system.  These5 are "tightly bolted, loosely coupled" toast clusters.   J *  A few will support a shared analog buss, i.e. they are all plugged intoH the same power strip.  This is "enterprise-wide resource management" for toast clusters.t  K *  VMS will support the idea of any user anywhere requesting toast based ontH characteristics and will be given cluster-wide access to shared toasting
 resources.  I *  After a spate of confusion, Tru64/HPUX will start supporting TruToast,uF which works almost as well as VMStoast clusters, but is much harder to# administer, requiring commands like   ;        sudo tstctl -g brnt -proxy 10.0.1.5 -uLMzf spread.ar2  K You will also have to install RFS (the rye file system) to get this to work  right on Unix.  L *  A number of other vendors will poopoo Non-Uniform Toast Architectures andJ then suddenly produce NUTA-based systems of their own, but admit that theyH can manage the contents of a Toast Building Block but don't really scale6 them well together outside a quad-slice configuration.  K *  Microsoft founder BillG will "turn the bagelshop" in a herculean test ofUK corporate  will, and  redefine toast clusters to mean systems that are onlyeL backends to .TART, which you can only really use PopTarts(r) as an end user,: no matter how much your breakfast looks like pumpernickle.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:13:50 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> ) Subject: OT: someone knows TrafficMagnet? ' Message-ID: <3DAD039D.BB25ECA6@Free.fr>   / I just got this in my mailbox. Are they famous?s   [start of quote] Hi  J I visited Didier.Morandi.Free.Fr/index_us.htm, and noticed that you're notP listed on some search engines! I think we can offer you a service which can help@ you increase traffic and the number of visitors to your website.  P I would like to introduce you to TrafficMagnet.com. We offer a unique technologyL that will submit your website to over 300,000 search engines and directories every month.  P You'll be surprised by the low cost, and by how effective this website promotion method can be.    P To find out more about TrafficMagnet and the cost for submitting your website toJ over 300,000 search engines and directories, visit www.TrafficMagnet.com.    I would love to hear from you. a  
 Best Regards,S   Sarah Williams Sales and Marketingt( E-mail: Sarah_Williams@trafficmagnet.com http://www.TrafficMagnet.com   [end of quote]   Thanks.H   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:52:37 GMTn. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: OT: someone knows TrafficMagnet?a3 Message-ID: <V08r9.29374$N_6.465814@news.chello.at>u  W In article <3DAD039D.BB25ECA6@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:e0 >I just got this in my mailbox. Are they famous? >o >[start of quote]i >Hia >eK >I visited Didier.Morandi.Free.Fr/index_us.htm, and noticed that you're not Q >listed on some search engines! I think we can offer you a service which can helpLA >you increase traffic and the number of visitors to your website.i  E I don't know if they are famous, but I used to get a lot of such SPAM3+ and I even don't have a webserver at all...r   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERv% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 05:48:38 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-- Subject: Re: OT: someone knows TrafficMagnet?-3 Message-ID: <qfRlVWSBLMyj@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  W In article <3DAD039D.BB25ECA6@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:i1 > I just got this in my mailbox. Are they famous?7  K I would say yes, since they are listed by SPEWS as an incorrigible spammer.s   http://spews.org/html/S713.htmlb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:24:29 +0200n- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>)# Subject: OT: Will E. Coyote vs ACMEl' Message-ID: <3DAD142D.2AAB3CD2@Free.fr>d  7 http://Didier.Morandi.Free.Fr/Will_E_Coyote_vs_ACME.txtl   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:43:36 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>t' Subject: Re: OT: Will E. Coyote vs ACME ' Message-ID: <3DAD6D08.A3F77650@vcu.edu>m   see...  1 http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/7278/C   now back to work!!! ;-)L   Didier Morandi wrote:s > 9 > http://Didier.Morandi.Free.Fr/Will_E_Coyote_vs_ACME.txto >  > D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:56:19 -0400s From: norm.raphael@metso.com' Subject: Re: OT: Will E. Coyote vs ACME ? Message-ID: <OFAAE42B97.90A83E17-ON85256C54.0051FE58@metso.com>,   Didier,a    Is "Will" the french for "Wile"?   -Norm         5 Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> on 10/16/2002 09:43:36 AMe  - Please respond to Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>m   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:N* Subject:    Re: OT: Will E. Coyote vs ACME     see...  1 http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/7278/t   Specifically  = http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/7278/coyote1.htmln   andt  = http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/7278/coyote2.htmle   now back to work!!! ;-)d   Didier Morandi wrote:r >s9 > http://Didier.Morandi.Free.Fr/Will_E_Coyote_vs_ACME.txte >a > D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:03:12 +0200n- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>i' Subject: Re: OT: Will E. Coyote vs ACMEe' Message-ID: <3DAD9BCF.A0FF1ECE@Free.fr>o  " No, the French for Wile is "rus".  M The typo (thanks to William WW) comes from the author of the post in a FrenchhT Newsgroup. Has been fixed in http://Didier.Morandi.Free.Fr/Wil_E_Coyote_vs_ACME.txt.  S Now, back to work. I heard some noise from French HP/VMS people. Let's investigate.u   D.   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:y > 	 > Didier,e > " > Is "Will" the french for "Wile"?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:39:25 -0500f, From: "Tony Scandora" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov> Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS+ Message-ID: <aok4r0$4p4$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>s  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DACCDC2.B97863C3@fsi.net...  > Shane Smith wrote: > >FK > > I wonder if "it doesn't matter if anyone wants it, you have to do it to L > > give people some confidence in your support for the platform" would fly? > >r > > Yeah, right, I'm dreaming. >yE > A wise man once told me that even if only one customer asks for it,OI > *THAT* is a market ... because he'll tell his colleagues, who will tellc$ > their colleagues, who will tell...  K That's how KO lost the company he started.  Some of the finest engineers in,H the business built outstanding products, and savy customers bought them.L That worked for years, but as markets changed, Digital had no clue about how to play in them.  E The cost of validating and supporting a port of a monster like R/3 or0I PeopleSoft is huge, and neither DEC/Compaq/HP nor SAP/PeopleSoft has thateK much speculative cash to take a shot in the dark.  A demand, even if it cansH be created, must be verified before that kind of investment can be made,H which could easily be a marketing deadlock between customers waiting forJ supply and vendors waiting for demand.  In this case, what's in it for SAPK or PeopleSoft?  Will a VMS port generate any more sales for them?  Will themK CFOs and CEOs who evaluate and authorize multi-million dollar projects careiI if they run on Solaris, HP-UX, Linux, or VMS?  If HP finances a VMS port,nK complete with validation and support, would the third party consultants whotH do a lot of the installations and configurations be as capable on VMS as they are on Unix?a  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541i scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:44:26 +0100T* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>0 Subject: Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium, Message-ID: <aojcds$1m76@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  . "VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in messageE news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B85@rlghncst964.usps.gov...g  5 > f$getsyi("ARCH_TYPE") returns 1 if VAX, 2 if Alpha.  >n7 > Will the return value be 3 for Itanium-based systems?l  W Yes. http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6657/6657pro_006.html#arch_specific_ipf    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:30:26 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: Question about f$getsyi and ItaniumK Message-ID: <rdeininger-1610020730270001@1cust159.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>-  = In article <aojcds$1m76@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie"0 <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote:  / >"VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in message F >news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B85@rlghncst964.usps.gov... >s6 >> f$getsyi("ARCH_TYPE") returns 1 if VAX, 2 if Alpha. >>8 >> Will the return value be 3 for Itanium-based systems? >s >Yes..R http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6657/6657pro_006.html#arch_specific_ipf   Thank you!  I had missed that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:26:50 -0400s! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>u0 Subject: RE: Question about f$getsyi and ItaniumK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B86@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   *  Thanks to those who answered my question.  (9  Did anyone catch the reference to "forward-looking" DCL?h5  in the context of recent events, or was my sense of  -  humor in one of those excessively dry modes?b    WWWebbr  = In article <aojcds$1m76@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie"z <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote:  / >"VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in messageeF >news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B85@rlghncst964.usps.gov... >96 >> f$getsyi("ARCH_TYPE") returns 1 if VAX, 2 if Alpha. >>8 >> Will the return value be 3 for Itanium-based systems? >e >Yes.cL http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6657/6657pro_006.html#arch_specif ic_ipf   Thank you!  I had missed that.   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 08:44:54 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n0 Subject: Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium3 Message-ID: <P96+YbPJvDrV@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  o In article <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B85@rlghncst964.usps.gov>, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> writes:g > ' > I'm writing some forward-looking DCL.  > 5 > f$getsyi("ARCH_TYPE") returns 1 if VAX, 2 if Alpha." >   E    We've been advised that the following style will probably work forbG    IPF in most cases (example in DCL, but applies to C #ifdef and othernB    languages).  You can start looking for these kinds of things to    change now:  '       $ if f$getsyi("ARCH_TYPE") .eq. 1k       $ then                VAX - specific stuff              $else-       8         Alpha - specific stuff (IPF will probably match)              $endif  )    And the following probably won't work:1  '       $ if f$getsyi("ARCH_TYPE") .eq. 22       $ then                Alpha - specific stuff              $elseo       :         VAX - specific stuff (IPF will probably not match)              $endif   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:13:18 +0200a3 From: Philipp Brenner <news0405@brenner-online.net>  Subject: Re: SIMH V2.10 beta 18 Message-ID: <sceqqukr5q8rl70guppvogm4fgu2ev8a6f@4ax.com>   Hi Bob,h  & I have found a bug in build_mingw.bat:< In order to build the vax I had to add a .\pdp11\pdp11_pt.c  in line 75.   $ Many thanks for this great emulator!   Philipp.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:17:49 +0200-3 From: Philipp Brenner <news0405@brenner-online.net>0 Subject: Re: SIMH V2.10 beta 18 Message-ID: <55fqqu0f66dc6392i2u45evj091jlbg7l2@4ax.com>   Hi Bob,c  & I have found a bug in build_mingw.bat:< In order to build the vax I had to add a .\pdp11\pdp11_pt.c  in line 75.S  $ Many thanks for this great emulator!   PhilippS   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:09:29 GMTt, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com>' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAX 1 Message-ID: <d1ar9.2$v_1.189484@news.cpqcorp.net>n   Tom Linden wrote:e5 > Actually the word representing the Trademark shouldn= > be (or be used as) an adjective. e.g. Scott (brand) towels,  > VAX system, not a noun.t >g >> -----Original Message-----e* >> From: John Santos [mailto:JOHN@egh.com]) >> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 8:54 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >> Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAX >> >>* >> On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Bob Knowles wrote: >> >>> Alan E. Feldman wrote:F >>>> Hey, another plural of VAX is "VAX systems". That's what the docsE >>>> say, I believe. And no one can say it's wrong! Well, one can say  >>>> it, but.... >>>  >>> <historical_note> > >>> And the docs say it because there was a directive from the >> Digital (at theB >>> time) legal folks to the effect that a trademark was easier to= >>> protect if the owner never used it as a stand-alone noun.: >>> </historical_note> >>> -- .  .U .oG Oh dear, that old one. As someone else pointed out, 'Coke' - one of the0K best-protected (and most zealously protected) trademarks on the planet is asC counter example. Or do you go into a shop and ask for 'a Coke-brandwL cola-flavoured beverage'? And don't give me that 'exception proves the rule'H stuff, which is either misunderstood as 'constitutes proof of' (which noI exception does) or irrelevant, as it means 'puts the rule to the proof').m  L The reason I paraphrased the legal ruling ('tm is easier to protect when notH used as a noun' rather than 'tm must never be used as a noun ') was that  it's self-evidently nonsensical.   b      -- bob.know1es@hp.com% (non-spammers should make the 1 an L)a   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:40:11 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>m' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAXo; Message-ID: <01KNQEAUG1GI9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   D > And don't give me that 'exception proves the rule' stuff, which isJ > either misunderstood as 'constitutes proof of' (which no exception does= )-> > or irrelevant, as it means 'puts the rule to the proof').=20  J Right.  No exception proves the rule.  Quite the opposite: an exception=20H DISproves the rule.  The saying comes from an old meaning of the word=20K "prove", namely "test" (as in "proving ground" or the German "pr=FCfen",=20dF "to test").  An exception does of course put the rule to the test. =20K (Interestingly, in German one says "die Ausnahme best=E4tigt die Regel",=20fJ not "die Ausnahme pr=FCft die Regel", but this is almost certainly derive= d=207 from literally translating the confused English phrase.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:51:37 -0400c; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>o' Subject: Re: singular and plural of VAXs$ Message-ID: <3dad7d27$1@news.si.com>  H >Oh dear, that old one. As someone else pointed out, 'Coke' - one of theL >best-protected (and most zealously protected) trademarks on the planet is aD >counter example. Or do you go into a shop and ask for 'a Coke-brand >cola-flavoured beverage'?  I Likewise, who says, "hand be a Kleenex brand tissue"?  Most people I knowcK was, "hand me a Kleenex", even if the box is labeled "Puffs" or "Scotties".a --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comiA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comr= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventi< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:21:34 +0200e- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>e9 Subject: Spit Brook Soft Corp. communicates the followingG' Message-ID: <3DAD218D.D330D20D@Free.fr>v  ( Spit Brook Soft Corporation communicates( ========================================  [ Is created today 16th of October 2002 a virtual company called Spit Brook Soft Corporation.o   Here are its statuts:n  P 1. The Spit Brook Soft Corporation, hereafter named "the company", is created on 16-OCT-2002 07:00 UTC.  # 2. The company has no headquarters.a  ; 3. The company has no President, unless someone volunteers.i  O 4. The company administrators are everyone who once got involved in former U.S.wL company DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION (aka DEC) software engineering, sales, support, training or use.r  - 5. The company goals are the following ones :j  O o  5.1 Make all legal actions worldwide to protect the future of the HP OpenVMS N (TM) operating system. This goal is not limited to OpenVMS. It may be extendedP to any other (former) DEC operating systems or software products by a minimum ofL one vote of any of the administrators. eMail votes are accepted. The OpenVMSL name is a trade mark owned by the Hewlett-Packard Corporation (aka HP), name  used in here without permission.  G o  5.2 Promote the existence, excellence and other -ence of the OpenVMS-M operating system in any way unless forbidden by the HP Company. In that case,iU the company will self-destroy 30 seconds after such notification from the HP Company.u  P o  5.3 Promote the existence of a worldwide network of OpenVMS engineers, systemM managers and other specialists able to help any OpenVMS users or prospects onu any issues.s  P 6. The privileged way of communication between the Administrators of the CompanyP will be established later: a distribution list, a YAHOO group, a WEB-based forum9 or whatever way which does not generate noise on the WEB.t  O 7. The founder of the company (author of this post) declares that his intentiont in this creation is:  O FIRST: To help - by the company communication - the HP OpenVMS Group ManagementeN to spread worldwide within the HP Company internally (qui audiatur audiat) theO fact that the OpenVMS product is definitely a product to be continued, enhancedT3 and promoted worldwide around the world everywhere.T  N SECOND: To demonstrate worldwide to all IT managers, users and other -ers thatN the OpenVMS Operating System should be dealt with (Note: the company is hiringM starting now a French-English translator to produce best quality English textn& within its Communications Department).  J THIRD: To protect the business of the poor OpenVMS consultants who - afterM twenty years of study, or even much more - have an hyperbolic increasing IDLEMK process time and who use this time to pollute Internet technical forums :-)    signed:  Didier DTL Morandi Vice-President for Europe, Middle-East and Africa.a   Spoiler follows.                                                    L PS: in case this idea could be something else than a joke, you may choose to# contribute on the subject via mail.   B PPS: don't search Google for "Spit Brook Soft", I did. No matches.@      "Olsen Friends" was already used, as well as "ZK Software".   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:22:07 +0100r' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> + Subject: Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk?r2 Message-ID: <161020021222078799%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  5 In article <3DACCA09.6275113C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:n   > Elliott Roper wrote:I > > it. I get slightly better on the way back, about 900KB/sec. The round K > > trip for a 55 minute movie would take 10 hours and eat 13GB of VMS diskf
 > > space. > O > Depends on what compression you use for the quicktime movies. (and of course, @ > the size of the images, sound quality and number of channels).  E The bit you snipped specified DV, since he was using it to store partmE finished edits. That is 3.6MB/sec of video already compressed. That's  where the 13 GB came from.  F It really is impractical to use VMS as DV video storage when your only> link to it is a 10Mbit/sec ethernet. Believe me. I have tried. >  > M > On the VMS system, you need to ensure that TYPE IMAGE is used (eg: raw data  > transfer). > M > On the MAC, an FTP client(such as Fetch)  allows you to specify whether you:P > want macbinary or raw binary. Macbinary will sedn , as one file, both the dataN > and resource forks, so that on the return trip, the file is recreted exactlyO > the same. But if you wish to publish the .MOV to the net, then you should useeM > the raw binary transfer to strip off the resource fork. (in both cases, VMSoE > doesn't see a difference, it just receives and stores binary data).n  A In practice, it seems to make little difference. I have published G movies with the resource fork still there and nobody complains. I guesseD Quicktime for Windows sorts it out at the receiving end for those on> the dark side. Might be different if it were a .avi container.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:29:30 +0200o- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>e+ Subject: Re: store .MOV file on a VMS disk? ' Message-ID: <3DAD4D99.53050D63@Free.fr>M   Elliott Roper wrote: > 7 > In article <3DACCA09.6275113C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeio' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:o >  > > Elliott Roper wrote:K > > > it. I get slightly better on the way back, about 900KB/sec. The roundnM > > > trip for a 55 minute movie would take 10 hours and eat 13GB of VMS diska > > > space. > >bQ > > Depends on what compression you use for the quicktime movies. (and of course,lB > > the size of the images, sound quality and number of channels). > G > The bit you snipped specified DV, since he was using it to store partaG > finished edits. That is 3.6MB/sec of video already compressed. That's  > where the 13 GB came from.   Correct.   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 12:06:07 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) / Subject: Re: stuck process after v7.3-1 upgradee3 Message-ID: <xOsg6odA0N6j@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  z In article <7f15589f.0210152036.3ba33555@posting.google.com>, craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry) writes:   > B > In addition to my DPW 500au, others report identical behavior onA > AlphaServer 400 and AlphaServer 800; I don't think any of thesem1 > systems is a candidate for the newest firmware.t >   $ 	The 7.3-1 Release Notes state that:  F http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/6652/6652pro_contents.html  O The minimum version of Alpha Systems Firmware tested with OpenVMS Alpha Versiont 7.3-1 is Version 6.1.   ? 	The noted exception is the 1000.  You may be simply looking aty 	a firmware issue.   				Robn   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 07:30:32 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Tape Copy?f3 Message-ID: <bLVHAZl9A5QW@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  R In article <3DAC8BA1.653FA3A@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:F > I need to duplicate a DLT I have with many backup save-sets on it toE > another DLT.  It would be nice if the creation date of the new copyeG > save-sets were preserved from the original, but that is not critical.  > 0 > The save-sets were made with /BlockSize=65535. > / > I have tired to use COPY, but get this error:0 > * > $ Mount /Block = 65535 MISC$MKD600: dpm11 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DPM1 mounted on _MISC$MKD600:n2 > $ Mount /Block = 65535 /NoWrite fvs2$MKc600: dpm0 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DPM mounted on _FVS2$MKC600:- > $ Copy /Log FVS2$MKC600:*.* MISC$MKD600:*.*nJ > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening FVS2$MKC600:[]DPM0101-011005.BC;1 as inputB > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0 > E > I have also tried to use BACKUP to copy the files from tape to tape  > without any success.  A BACKUP will only go from files on disk to saveset on tape or fromtD saveset on tape to files on disk.  It will not do saveset to savesetF copies.  As indicated elsewhere, save set manager is a layered product! that provides that functionality.g   You have a few options.j  F 1.  Use the save set manager product as indicated in a previous reply.  F 2.  BACKUP tape to disk and then disk to tape to make the new saveset.  : 3.  Mount both tape volumes /FOREIGN /BLOCK=65535 and then  $ 	$ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape:$ 	$ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape:$ 	$ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape:$ 	$ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape:$ 	$ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape:  	until you get a zero block copy   	You should see a pattern like:   2 	~3 records copied (header records for save set 1)' 	n records copied (save set 1 contents)r3 	~3 records copied (trailer records for save set 1) 2 	~3 records copied (header records for save set 2)' 	n records copied (save set 2 contents)r3 	~3 records copied (trailer records for save set 2)w 	...: 	0 records copied (back-to-back tape marks indicating EOV)  @ A $ COPY operation on a backup tape that is not mounted /FOREIGN= is only guaranteed to work if the backup save set was createdh@ with the /INTERCHANGE qualifier.  And the /INTERCHANGE qualifierC has other nasty side effects (it doesn't save ACL information) that  usually rule it out.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:07:41 GMTe. From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rr-r.com> Subject: Re: Tape Copy?c8 Message-ID: <h9gr9.18040$2s.805447@twister.maine.rr.com>  H We've used a freeware utility called TCOPY for years to copy tapes.  TheG copy was always onsite and is used for all restores.  We've never had apJ problem.  We switched to TCOPY after DBMS records became too large for DCL COPY.p  G I know there are a few TCOPYs out there for OpenVMS.  The one we use isC3 credited to Western Michigan University in TCOPY.C.    -Jeffr    4 "Rick Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in message" news:3DAC8BA1.653FA3A@uiowa.edu...F > I need to duplicate a DLT I have with many backup save-sets on it toE > another DLT.  It would be nice if the creation date of the new copyoG > save-sets were preserved from the original, but that is not critical.r >R0 > The save-sets were made with /BlockSize=65535. >J/ > I have tired to use COPY, but get this error:s > * > $ Mount /Block = 65535 MISC$MKD600: dpm11 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DPM1 mounted on _MISC$MKD600:Y2 > $ Mount /Block = 65535 /NoWrite fvs2$MKc600: dpm0 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DPM mounted on _FVS2$MKC600:- > $ Copy /Log FVS2$MKC600:*.* MISC$MKD600:*.* J > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening FVS2$MKC600:[]DPM0101-011005.BC;1 as inputB > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0 > E > I have also tried to use BACKUP to copy the files from tape to tapee > without any success. > # > What am I missing or doing wrong?o >e > Rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:34:25 -0400 + From: "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com>( Subject: Re: Tape Copy? 5 Message-ID: <aok4em$moddi$1@ID-118202.news.dfncis.de>   : There are also 2 old DECUS programs called TCP and FTCOPY.  B - TCP copies the tape to an file on disk or from disk back to tape$ - FTCOPY can do tape to tape copies.  Z They were on the old DECUS SIG tapes. I don't know if they ever made it to the freeware CD   Marty O'Connor  Y <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message news:bLVHAZl9A5QW@eisner.encompasserve.org... R In article <3DAC8BA1.653FA3A@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:F > I need to duplicate a DLT I have with many backup save-sets on it toE > another DLT.  It would be nice if the creation date of the new copy2G > save-sets were preserved from the original, but that is not critical.i >s0 > The save-sets were made with /BlockSize=65535. >B/ > I have tired to use COPY, but get this error:r >p* > $ Mount /Block = 65535 MISC$MKD600: dpm11 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DPM1 mounted on _MISC$MKD600:-2 > $ Mount /Block = 65535 /NoWrite fvs2$MKc600: dpm0 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DPM mounted on _FVS2$MKC600:- > $ Copy /Log FVS2$MKC600:*.* MISC$MKD600:*.*eJ > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening FVS2$MKC600:[]DPM0101-011005.BC;1 as inputB > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0 > E > I have also tried to use BACKUP to copy the files from tape to tapeB > without any success.  A BACKUP will only go from files on disk to saveset on tape or from D saveset on tape to files on disk.  It will not do saveset to savesetF copies.  As indicated elsewhere, save set manager is a layered product! that provides that functionality.n   You have a few options."  F 1.  Use the save set manager product as indicated in a previous reply.  F 2.  BACKUP tape to disk and then disk to tape to make the new saveset.  : 3.  Mount both tape volumes /FOREIGN /BLOCK=65535 and then  # $ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape: # $ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape: # $ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape:.# $ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape:r# $ COPY /LOG source-tape: dest-tape:1 until you get a zero block copy>   You should see a pattern like:  1 ~3 records copied (header records for save set 1)i& n records copied (save set 1 contents)2 ~3 records copied (trailer records for save set 1)1 ~3 records copied (header records for save set 2)0& n records copied (save set 2 contents)2 ~3 records copied (trailer records for save set 2) ... 9 0 records copied (back-to-back tape marks indicating EOV)-  @ A $ COPY operation on a backup tape that is not mounted /FOREIGN= is only guaranteed to work if the backup save set was createdC@ with the /INTERCHANGE qualifier.  And the /INTERCHANGE qualifierC has other nasty side effects (it doesn't save ACL information) thatD usually rule it out.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:12:08 GMTa* From: Mark Boyes <Mark.Boyes@hp.comdespam>9 Subject: Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (fixed yet?)c1 Message-ID: <cQbr9.5$002.235630@news.cpqcorp.net>a   Mark Daniel wrote:   > G > I have been watching the TCP/IP releases and ECOs since but have not 5C > been able to find any reference to this issue.  Have I missed it?e >  > TIA. >   / The fix should be in V5.1 ECO 5 and V5.3 ECO 1.j   +Mark+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:40:01 -07004' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  Subject: The Good CEOw+ Message-ID: <aok18i$d8h$1@naig.caltech.edu>t  ? Here is an interesting little article describing "the Good CEO"k  A http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/funds/stephenschurr/10047126.htmln  % A certain company's CEO is mentioned.    Regards,   -- r David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:05:38 GMTP# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r Subject: Re: The Good CEO E Message-ID: <m7gr9.1818$Q3S.115@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>g  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:aok18i$d8h$1@naig.caltech.edu...nA > Here is an interesting little article describing "the Good CEO"t >aC > http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/funds/stephenschurr/10047126.htmlr >l' > A certain company's CEO is mentioned.i   A fascist poster girl.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:38:18 -04002* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: The Good CEOj6 Message-ID: <RZycnVXTOfB7CDCgXTWcpg@News.GigaNews.Com>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:aok18i$d8h$1@naig.caltech.edu...cA > Here is an interesting little article describing "the Good CEO"s >eC > http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/funds/stephenschurr/10047126.htmll  J Thanks - good read.  Reminds me of KO (and very much the antithesis of his
 successors)..s   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 00:19:08 -07002 From: johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se (Johan Nilsson)7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelsa= Message-ID: <c3c6388a.0210152319.5bc25e4d@posting.google.com>   d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEHCFOAA.tom@kednos.com>...6 > I suspect Johan was looking for a portable solution? >    In terms of functionality, yes.t  @ I'm working on implementing asynchronous I/O stuff with the sameD interface on NT/linux and now also OpenVMS. The I/O model of OpenVMSD is (not very surprisingly) quite similar to NT, so I though it wouldA be a 'piece of cake' porting the stuff to VMS as I know NT prettyiD well. The QIO calls and eventflags are just what I need, the trouble@ being that I need to implement asynch I/O for serial (terminal),* sockets (udp/multicast) and regular files.  ; Most of the stuff is pretty much straightforward except forrF multicasting (where I must use sendto/recvfrom and their equivalents),D but when I got a glimpse of the parameters needed to SYS$OPEN a fileD under VMS I got scared ;) - hence the question on just being able toC UNIX-style open the file - just specifying read and/or write accesss0 and binary/text mode ... not all that RMS stuff.  F I guess I need to check the docs on the RMS stuff, but I've got a needD to "get going quickly" on this one. If I can't get the I/O channel -6 are there any pointers to simple introductions to RMS?   Thanks // Johan    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2002 05:12:59 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)n/ Subject: Re: VAXELN License for SIMH simulatorsr5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-YPDbj2cSc7XY@localhost>   3 On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:11:20 UTC, "C.W.Holeman II" l! <cwhii5@julian5locals.com> wrote:i  1 >         The Computer History Simulation Projectf( >         http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ > 4 > has a VAX emulator and various OSes. What would it4 > take to get a VAXELN Toolkit and Run-time licences > for use with the simulator?o >    I'm interested too!!   -- c Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:55:32 +0100p% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> = Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel-8 Message-ID: <2n9qqugdnpvlegrmpomon6164alaaomp8f@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:08:21 GMT, "Tom Simpson"j! <simpsont@attbi.com.fubar> wrote:t    J >This makes me REAL nervous about the quality control or VMS these days... >tK >I'm surprised that no one else on this NG has run into this problem beforex >now.,  @ It worries me that 7.3-1 did not get anything like the extensiveC testing recent previous release have had via the previously heavilyt3 publicised Beta SDK releases and newsgroup support.e  C At least one of the bugs in TCPIP 5.3 as well is so blatant that ithA looks like nobody did any real testing of th new NFS /structure=5cE mounts. I mean when you type a $ DIR command and get an infinite loop  that's pretty basic!  D But I find it close to impossible to believe that all Memory ChannelE support is broken in 7.3-1 on DS20 and ES4x class systems. Can anyonenA else confirm this? If it really leaked out of the door that badlyrD broken I'd have to advise that 7.3-1 should be considered unsuitable for any production application.a  F That said I've successfully tested most of our production applications under it on a small Alpha.   >-D >HP says VMS 7.3 works ok, but 7.3-1 does not (which I can confirm). >e	 >Regards,E >Tom >c   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:27:55 GMTe3 From: Jeff Goodwin <Jeff.Goodwin@FairchildSemi.com>i= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channels1 Message-ID: <3DAD773B.C18DEB68@FairchildSemi.com>o   Tom,  E This was in a DSNlink article, so it appears you're not the only one:y  )   o     Warning for Memory Channel Users:   A         If you are running memory channel for clustering, certaini?         systems may not function.  Engineering is aware of this C         and if diligently developing a solution. Please contact thenA         CSC prior to upgrading to 7.3-1 if you are running memory          channel.    4 I hope "if diligently" really means "is diligently".  H Thank you for posting this problem as it probably saved me the headaches you're having.-   -Jeffa   Tom Simpson wrote: > F > We recently upgraded from VMS 7.2-1 to 7.3-1.  After the upgrade, we > discoveredL > that clustering was no longer possible, since VMS 7.3-1 does not work with > the memoryL > channel interface on ES4x and DS20 systems (says HP support).  This is not > an intermittentlN > or hard to reproduce problem.  The memory channel fails to initialize during > the boot andJ > unless you have an alternate cluster path enabled, you are screwed.  Our > alternate path is I > a redundant memory channel interface and hub, which is no help for thisc > situation. > K > This makes me REAL nervous about the quality control or VMS these days...d > L > I'm surprised that no one else on this NG has run into this problem before > now. > E > HP says VMS 7.3 works ok, but 7.3-1 does not (which I can confirm).R > 
 > Regards, > Toms   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:02:03 GMTg5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channeld2 Message-ID: <Lbfr9.15$Pc2.441372@news.cpqcorp.net>  F Jeff Goodwin wrote in message <3DAD773B.C18DEB68@FairchildSemi.com>... >Tom,m >pF >This was in a DSNlink article, so it appears you're not the only one: >E* >  o     Warning for Memory Channel Users: > B >        If you are running memory channel for clustering, certain@ >        systems may not function.  Engineering is aware of thisD >        and if diligently developing a solution. Please contact theB >        CSC prior to upgrading to 7.3-1 if you are running memory >        channel.m >l >s5 >I hope "if diligently" really means "is diligently".i >c  D It is a high-priority problem being actively looked at.  There is anK apparent lost interrupt that did not show up in testing and qual, but whichiC has showed up at several customer sites. As a result, we have asked_J customers not to use V7.3-1 on these systems with MC for clustering, while& we reproduce and diagnose the problem.  H Testing and qualification is a long and difficult job, especially as theH number of system types, and hardware configurations expand.  It is neverE possible to do 100% qualification of all combinations of hardware and F software configurations, and some problems only show up under specificB loads.  Nobody is happy about it when a bug slips through testing.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 10:21:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channela3 Message-ID: <mOh80T9vQmoZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  j In article <Lbfr9.15$Pc2.441372@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:  J > Testing and qualification is a long and difficult job, especially as theJ > number of system types, and hardware configurations expand.  It is neverG > possible to do 100% qualification of all combinations of hardware andnH > software configurations, and some problems only show up under specificD > loads.  Nobody is happy about it when a bug slips through testing.  F Even Field Test sites will typically not entrust their production dataG to the Field Test version of VMS, and few of them fully replicate theirh' production load on their test machines.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:44:04 +0100v% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel 8 Message-ID: <952rqu4n1cf14f3c5413a5nbef6fl4a7e7@4ax.com>  3 On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:02:03 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"n$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:    I >Testing and qualification is a long and difficult job, especially as theeI >number of system types, and hardware configurations expand.  It is neveraF >possible to do 100% qualification of all combinations of hardware andG >software configurations, and some problems only show up under specificsC >loads.  Nobody is happy about it when a bug slips through testing.e  D Of course. Which is why I found it strange that the 7.3-1 field testF was so limited in scope compared to what we've come to expect over theB last 5 years or so. That is no widely advertised SDK and no vmsnet newsgroup support.       -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:45:35 -0700M% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>r= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel ( Message-ID: <3DAD97AF.8070900@rdrop.com>   Alan Greig wrote:2F > But I find it close to impossible to believe that all Memory ChannelG > support is broken in 7.3-1 on DS20 and ES4x class systems. Can anyoneuC > else confirm this? If it really leaked out of the door that badly4F > broken I'd have to advise that 7.3-1 should be considered unsuitable! > for any production application.p  F Between this and some of the other complaints, our staff have already  decided to skip 7.3-1.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 11:41:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)0= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channeln3 Message-ID: <0SZiLzl2uyZx@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ` In article <952rqu4n1cf14f3c5413a5nbef6fl4a7e7@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:5 > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:02:03 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"i& > <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: >  > J >>Testing and qualification is a long and difficult job, especially as theJ >>number of system types, and hardware configurations expand.  It is neverG >>possible to do 100% qualification of all combinations of hardware andsH >>software configurations, and some problems only show up under specificD >>loads.  Nobody is happy about it when a bug slips through testing. > F > Of course. Which is why I found it strange that the 7.3-1 field testH > was so limited in scope compared to what we've come to expect over theD > last 5 years or so. That is no widely advertised SDK and no vmsnet > newsgroup support.  @ While I like to see those things, I doubt that either would haveJ attracted additional sites running a heavy load over their memory channel.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 12:27:47 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)r= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel.3 Message-ID: <1Kx6KnWhs4eV@eisner.encompasserve.org>B  P In article <3DAD97AF.8070900@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > Alan Greig wrote: G >> But I find it close to impossible to believe that all Memory ChannelpH >> support is broken in 7.3-1 on DS20 and ES4x class systems. Can anyoneD >> else confirm this? If it really leaked out of the door that badlyG >> broken I'd have to advise that 7.3-1 should be considered unsuitablea" >> for any production application. > H > Between this and some of the other complaints, our staff have already  > decided to skip 7.3-1. >   A 	I see 7.3-1 as probably the most stable rev to come out in quiteRG 	some time.  The number of ECOs for 7.3-1 is surprisingly low.  ReadingeG 	other engineering comments, a good many bug fixes made their way into 5 	7.3-1.9  ? 	Rule of thumb:  ALWAYS wait about 6 months before upgrading ton@ 	ANY version.  That 6 month wait will flush out showstopper bugs? 	(if they exist).  In your case, I'd say you won't be upgradingo0 	for about a year.  That may suit you just fine.  @ 	Regarding other complaints, sort through the chaff... maybe twoA 	are legitimate.  Others fall into the category of not doing whatgD 	you are supposed to (i.e. firmware revs, supported platforms, etc.)  * 	I am on track towards upgrading to 7.3-1.   				Rob   : And the wind shall say:  "Here were decent godless people:>                           Their only monument the asphalt road:                           And a thousand lost golf balls."-                                 -- T.S. Eliot    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:09:41 +0100o* From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com>& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption% Message-ID: <3dad1941$1@194.70.94.92>r  	 Hi Kerry,0  J Coincidently, we have just recently purchased a new FC HBA just to be ableF to perform this test -  so I would assume (maybe I shouldn't) that the firmware is up to date?r   Thanks for you input.o   Craig Cookep Dabs.com    2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9771@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. Craig,   Just a thought -  I About 18 months ago, there was a flavour of the KGPSA FC HBA adapter that5F had a firmware problem that caused all sorts of issues. The fix was to upgrade the FW.g  L As a suggestion, given the older type of systems you are using for the test,B perhaps have CS verify the HBA's you are using have the latest FW?   Regards-  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant2 Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesj Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom   (remove the DOT's)       -----Original Message-----/ From: Craig Cooke [mailto:ccooke@beta.dabs.com]  Sent: October 14, 2002 6:40 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption     Hi Renee  I No, we do not have any disk defragmentation tools running on this system.0   Thanks for the input anyway.   Craig Cookeb Dabs.com      = "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> wrote in messageeA news:3daa9a7c$0$18866$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...o > Hi!s >AH > Do you have a 3rd-party defragmentation-tool (like diskeeper) running? >sH > Had the same problem, because I had forgotten to make sure, that it is stilln > compatible - it was not. > 	 > regardst >  > Ren >> >g= > "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> schrieb im Newsbeitraga! > news:3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92...e > > Hi,v > >eH > > I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMS	 > 7.3-1 -aH > > storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.  WeE > > had problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  Ie
 > > did an > >y > > ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK' > >aC > > Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such ast > >r< > > %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1% > >         multiply allocated blockso > >         VBN 78490 to 79515E > >         LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 1 %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, filel  > > (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1% > >         multiply allocated blocksu > >         VBN 79516 to 144324  > > C > > %ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3n- > >         of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1)-% > >         Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISM % > >                   and 'FILE2.ISM'h > > D > > We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS	 > > 7.2-1  toF > > OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today -E > > and requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, ifr7 > > this is a known issue, it requires resolving first.i > >e* > > Does anyone know anything about this ? > >lD > > Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2) > >p% > > Thanks ins advance for any input.u > >T > > Craig Cooker > > Dabs.com > >f > >w > >0 > >o > >n > >  > >" > >i >p >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:36:55 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>t& Subject: RE: VMS 7.3-1 File CorruptionT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660A91@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Craig,  G This may not be related to your problem, but as a fyi - The problem I = > was referring to is stated about half way down the page at:=20, http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/I "Compaq Computer Corporation has identified a flaw in the Emulex LP8000 =sE 64-bit PCI Fibre Channel Host Bus Adapter and has new firmware that =eG corrects the problem. The failure occurs in a small percentage of the = 2 product (Compaq SKUs DS-KGPSA-CA (168794-B21)).=20  4 For more information and for the firmware fix, see =J http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/adapters/64bitpcifibre.html=20  I Unfortunately, I just noticed this last link is broken. I will see what =s I can do to get it fixed.e   Regardsr  
 Kerry Main Solutions Architectn Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660v Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Craig Cooke [mailto:ccooke@beta.dabs.com]=20 Sent: October 16, 2002 4:10 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption      	 Hi Kerry,0  G Coincidently, we have just recently purchased a new FC HBA just to be =:I able to perform this test -  so I would assume (maybe I shouldn't) that =3 the firmware is up to date?k   Thanks for you input.c   Craig Cooke= Dabs.com    4 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message =J news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9771@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.n= et.s .  Craig,   Just a thought -  F About 18 months ago, there was a flavour of the KGPSA FC HBA adapter =J that had a firmware problem that caused all sorts of issues. The fix was = to upgrade the FW.  H As a suggestion, given the older type of systems you are using for the =H test, perhaps have CS verify the HBA's you are using have the latest FW?   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services1 Voice: 613-592-4660n Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom   (remove the DOT's)       -----Original Message-----/ From: Craig Cooke [mailto:ccooke@beta.dabs.com]E Sent: October 14, 2002 6:40 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption     Hi Renea  C No, we do not have any disk defragmentation tools running on this =  system.o   Thanks for the input anyway.   Craig Cookeo Dabs.com      A "Ren=E9 Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> wrote in message =rA news:3daa9a7c$0$18866$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...  > Hi!  > H > Do you have a 3rd-party defragmentation-tool (like diskeeper) running? >aH > Had the same problem, because I had forgotten to make sure, that it is still  > compatible - it was not. >i	 > regards  >h > Ren=E9 >M >s@ > "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag=20! > news:3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92...r > > Hi,C > >yH > > I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMS	 > 7.3-1 -rJ > > storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.  We =  H > > had problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  I=20
 > > did an > >S > > ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK' > >mC > > Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such ash > >e< > > %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1% > >         multiply allocated blocksc > >         VBN 78490 to 79515E > >         LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 1 %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, filet  > > (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1% > >         multiply allocated blocks  > >         VBN 79516 to 144324w > >NC > > %ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3t- > >         of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1)s% > >         Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISMT% > >                   and 'FILE2.ISM'V > >nG > > We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS=20h	 > > 7.2-1n toI > > OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today -=20lH > > and requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, if=207 > > this is a known issue, it requires resolving first.  > > * > > Does anyone know anything about this ? > >sD > > Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2) > > % > > Thanks ins advance for any input.a > >o > > Craig Cookeo > > Dabs.com > >  > >e > >  > >l > >r > >" > >a > >y >e >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:07:56 +0100 * From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com>& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption% Message-ID: <3dad5f29$1@194.70.94.92>D  	 Hi Kerry,2  L Thanks very much for that - it's much appreciated.  I have passed this issueF onto Customer Services just recently and have had communication from a8 support engineer - he is still looking into the problem.  3 Thanks for all the time and effort you have put in.t   Craig Cooked Dabs.com    2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660A91@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. Craig,  I This may not be related to your problem, but as a fyi - The problem I wasw7 referring to is stated about half way down the page at:/, http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/G "Compaq Computer Corporation has identified a flaw in the Emulex LP8000 L 64-bit PCI Fibre Channel Host Bus Adapter and has new firmware that correctsL the problem. The failure occurs in a small percentage of the product (Compaq SKUs DS-KGPSA-CA (168794-B21)).   2 For more information and for the firmware fix, seeG http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/adapters/64bitpcifibre.htmli  I Unfortunately, I just noticed this last link is broken. I will see what It can do to get it fixed.r   Regardsy  
 Kerry Main Solutions Architectb Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----/ From: Craig Cooke [mailto:ccooke@beta.dabs.com]  Sent: October 16, 2002 4:10 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comw& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption      	 Hi Kerry,   J Coincidently, we have just recently purchased a new FC HBA just to be ableF to perform this test -  so I would assume (maybe I shouldn't) that the firmware is up to date?    Thanks for you input.1   Craig Cooke  Dabs.com    2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9771@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .o Craig,   Just a thought -  I About 18 months ago, there was a flavour of the KGPSA FC HBA adapter that>F had a firmware problem that caused all sorts of issues. The fix was to upgrade the FW.a  L As a suggestion, given the older type of systems you are using for the test,B perhaps have CS verify the HBA's you are using have the latest FW?   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesu Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom   (remove the DOT's)       -----Original Message-----/ From: Craig Cooke [mailto:ccooke@beta.dabs.com]  Sent: October 14, 2002 6:40 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption     Hi Renem  I No, we do not have any disk defragmentation tools running on this system..   Thanks for the input anyway.   Craig Cookee Dabs.com      = "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> wrote in messageoA news:3daa9a7c$0$18866$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...  > Hi!n >dH > Do you have a 3rd-party defragmentation-tool (like diskeeper) running? > H > Had the same problem, because I had forgotten to make sure, that it is stille > compatible - it was not. >7	 > regardse >t > Ren >a > = > "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrage! > news:3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92...A > > Hi,e > >rH > > I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMS	 > 7.3-1 -iH > > storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.  WeE > > had problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  I6
 > > did an > >e > > ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK' > >TC > > Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such asn > >c< > > %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1% > >         multiply allocated blocksL > >         VBN 78490 to 79515E > >         LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 1 %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, filet  > > (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1% > >         multiply allocated blockso > >         VBN 79516 to 144324  > >mC > > %ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3h- > >         of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1)K% > >         Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISMu% > >                   and 'FILE2.ISM'k > >5D > > We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS	 > > 7.2-1  toF > > OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today -E > > and requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, ifo7 > > this is a known issue, it requires resolving first.s > >e* > > Does anyone know anything about this ? > >pD > > Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2) > >e% > > Thanks ins advance for any input.o > >s > > Craig Cookel > > Dabs.com > >s > >t > >i > >A > >i > >  > >h > >s >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:03:36 GMTa3 From: Jeff Goodwin <Jeff.Goodwin@FairchildSemi.com>o& Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption1 Message-ID: <3DAD7F98.171E25C2@FairchildSemi.com>m  D We purchased a group of cards about four months ago and none had theB corrected firmware.  I used the information in the link that Kerry  provided to update the firmware.   -Jeffa   Craig Cooke wrote: >  > Hi Kerry,e > L > Coincidently, we have just recently purchased a new FC HBA just to be ableH > to perform this test -  so I would assume (maybe I shouldn't) that the > firmware is up to date?r >  > Thanks for you input.s > 
 > Craig Cookei
 > Dabs.com > 4 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageN > news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9771@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. > .. > Craig, >  > Just a thought - > K > About 18 months ago, there was a flavour of the KGPSA FC HBA adapter thatnH > had a firmware problem that caused all sorts of issues. The fix was to > upgrade the FW.  > N > As a suggestion, given the older type of systems you are using for the test,D > perhaps have CS verify the HBA's you are using have the latest FW? > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Servicesn > Voice: 613-592-4660c > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom >   (remove the DOT's) >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Craig Cooke [mailto:ccooke@beta.dabs.com]w  > Sent: October 14, 2002 6:40 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr( > Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 File Corruption > 	 > Hi Reneo > K > No, we do not have any disk defragmentation tools running on this system.h >  > Thanks for the input anyway. > 
 > Craig Cooket
 > Dabs.com > ? > "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> wrote in messageeC > news:3daa9a7c$0$18866$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...a > > Hi!a > >cJ > > Do you have a 3rd-party defragmentation-tool (like diskeeper) running? > >tJ > > Had the same problem, because I had forgotten to make sure, that it is > stillr > > compatible - it was not. > >h > > regards5 > >  > > Ren > >r > > ? > > "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag$# > > news:3daa84f8$1@194.70.94.92...1	 > > > Hi,  > > >KJ > > > I've recently upgraded a test system (Alphaserver 1200) - to OpenVMS > > 7.3-1 -eJ > > > storage is via HSG80 - I created a 6 member mirrored stripe set.  WeG > > > had problems with files 'disappearing' / becoming corrupt etc.  IS > > > did an > > >d > > > ANAL/DISK/REP 'DISK' > > >=E > > > Now, massive corruption has taken place - we get errors such aso > > > > > > > %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, file (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1' > > >         multiply allocated blocks-  > > >         VBN 78490 to 79515G > > >         LBN 2088252 to 2089277, RVN 1 %ANALDISK-W-MULTALLOC, fileT" > > > (1,1,0) [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1' > > >         multiply allocated blocksr! > > >         VBN 79516 to 144324T > > >FE > > > %ANALDISK-W-BAD_NAMEORDER, filename ordering incorrect in VBN 3 / > > >         of directory 'DIRECTORY' (12,1,1)y' > > >         Filenames are 'FILE1'.ISM ' > > >                   and 'FILE2.ISM'  > > >aF > > > We intend to upgrade out production systems shortly from OpenVMS > > > 7.2-1e > toH > > > OpenVMS 7.3-1 (we need to as a new ES45 is being delivered today -G > > > and requires commisioning as soon as possible), but obviously, ifc9 > > > this is a known issue, it requires resolving first.  > > >a, > > > Does anyone know anything about this ? > > >dF > > > Is it a known issue (I know it was a problem prior to VMS 5.5-2) > > >i' > > > Thanks ins advance for any input.t > > >O > > > Craig Cooker > > > Dabs.com > > >o > > >5 > > >$ > > >  > > >  > > >I > > >D > > >m > >d > >M   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:56:43 +0100 (MET)T9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>:@ Subject: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!); Message-ID: <01KNQRFX4AVY9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  I > It would make more sense to follow the VAX / Alpha example and have theo > itanium versions as say :- p >  > V 0.1 V 0.2  > G > and then consolidate on a common  V 8.0  (or if things on the itanium  > side get delayed v 8.1)   C I suspect the difference is that VMS 8.0 will actually include new rH features, keeping in line with the recent trend of not bringing all new > features to all platforms (at least not right away).  With theG VAX-to-ALPHA transition, the initial ALPHA "releases" had, IIRC, no newhE features.  (Wasn't ALPHA 0.x functionally equivalent to VAX 5.5-2 or  
 whatever?)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:52:25 GMTo5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>a* Subject: Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?2 Message-ID: <J2fr9.13$h82.345145@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 >rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:3 >c@ >> In article <b096a4ee.0210141204.6cc57f47@posting.google.com>,2 >> spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote: >fD >> >Also, is there somewhere that all these odd devices, like EZA0:,E >> >NOA0:, PKA0:, etc., are documented? I've never run across them insG >> >the docs (except for NLA0: which is mentioned under SPAWN and maybeiD >> >one or two other random places). And I do know that NLA0: is the >> >null device.  Thanks again.k > G >> I don't know of a manual that documents them all.  You can sometimeshG >> extract clues by searching SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$CONFIG.DAT for the first 2CG >> letters of the device name, and looking at the nearby lines of text.- >   @ ANAL/SYS and do a CLUE CONFIG is more interesting than searching sys$config.dat  K PK* devices are the port drivers for SCSI disks.  What you see as a disk is5 the class driver name of DK*.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:55:03 GMTd5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e* Subject: Re: Why is LTA0: offline mounted?2 Message-ID: <b5fr9.14$f92.370818@news.cpqcorp.net>  E Many "pseudo" devices show up like this.  By setting it up NOAVAIL it J prevents someone from trying to do IO to it directly.  An example is IN orE IK or IM which are sort-of class drivers for DECwindows.  There is no I pysical device behind them, and IO is not done directly to them, but theytH take over some of the entry points from the physical drivers and perform class-like functions.e      B sms@antinode.org wrote in message <02101519282271@antinode.org>... >WUSS $ show device /full no >lG >Device NOA0:, device type unknown, is online, device set /NOAVAILABLE,  networkm >    device. >@= >    Error count                    0    Operations completed1 0$2 >    Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC [SYSTEM]1 >    Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot8 S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,Wh< >    Reference count                0    Default buffer size 256o >CF >   So, not a template, but still unusual.  In the days before DSL, myI >home VAXsta 2000 used dial-up async DECnet to connect to the VAX 4300 atrF >work, and then with Wollongong DBRIDGE (IP over DECnet), the Internet/ >was just 9600b/s away.  Ah, the good old days.> >u5 >From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>XH >> On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:28:43 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert >> Deininger) wrote: >>L >> >Never heard of NOA0:.  Maybe that's the device that NOAA uses to control/ >> >the weather.  Is it a template device?  :-)/ >>H >> NODRIVER is used if you want to run async Decnet over terminal lines. DDCMP G >> and all that.  You manually install it, and then you can dynamically- switch >> lines to network lines. >>F >> I don't personally recall it creating a template device, but then I probably >> never cared to look.O >aI >------------------------------------------------------------------------T >LD >   Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)D >   382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)H >   Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work): >   sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:01:39 -0400s; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> # Subject: Re: Will E. Coyote vs ACMEI" Message-ID: <3dad81dd@news.si.com>  . The coyote's given name is "Wile", not "Will". -- nA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comtA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:48:48 +0200e9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> , Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!' Message-ID: <3DAD19E0.DFC49ED6@aaa.com>   ( Wasn't the first Alpha VMS version 1.5 ? And the second 6.<something> ?   Who cares ?c   Jan-Erik Sderholm.      JF Mezei wrote:t > J > Seems strange to be going from 7.3-1 to 8,.2 without a 8.0. I think thatM > customers will clue in to the fact that 8.2 is really 8.0 from the point ofj > view of reliability. > . > Will there be 8.1 and 8.2 on alpha and vax ?   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 05:53:47 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!3 Message-ID: <SMYqzg+VNZka@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3DAD19E0.DFC49ED6@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:c  * > Wasn't the first Alpha VMS version 1.5 ?  > And the second 6.<something> ?  % V1.0 was first, then V1.5, then V6.1.    > JF Mezei wrote:0 >> :K >> Seems strange to be going from 7.3-1 to 8,.2 without a 8.0. I think thatbN >> customers will clue in to the fact that 8.2 is really 8.0 from the point of >> view of reliability.d >> O/ >> Will there be 8.1 and 8.2 on alpha and vax ?t  F The announcements in St. Louis said 8.0 and 8.1 would be Itanium-only,G while 8.2 would be on VAX, Alpha and Itanium.  Thus 8.2 takes the place % that 6.1 had in "unifying" platforms.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:46:33 -0400e* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!6 Message-ID: <s_6dnbWhieRYFDCgXTWcoQ@News.GigaNews.Com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:SMYqzg+VNZka@eisner.encompasserve.org...r2 > In article <3DAD19E0.DFC49ED6@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik2 =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: > , > > Wasn't the first Alpha VMS version 1.5 ?" > > And the second 6.<something> ? >7' > V1.0 was first, then V1.5, then V6.1.a >n > > JF Mezei wrote:? > >>H > >> Seems strange to be going from 7.3-1 to 8,.2 without a 8.0. I think thatG > >> customers will clue in to the fact that 8.2 is really 8.0 from thet point of > >> view of reliability.f > >>1 > >> Will there be 8.1 and 8.2 on alpha and vax ?  >-H > The announcements in St. Louis said 8.0 and 8.1 would be Itanium-only,I > while 8.2 would be on VAX, Alpha and Itanium.  Thus 8.2 takes the placee' > that 6.1 had in "unifying" platforms.e  H The suggestion (which I agree with) seems to be that things that are notG conventional VMS releases are being called releases (regardless of whatdI numbers they are given).  The slide previously mentioned pointedly calledoH 8.2 a *production quality* release, which leaves the definite impressionF that 8.0 and 8.1 are something less.  Their timing does as well:  does@ anyone really believe that a 'production quality' release in anyL currently-understood sense of the term as it applies to VMS will be shippingF less than 6 months after a minimal VMS system first manages to boot onI Itanic without crashing immediately - leaving aside the decidedly minimal B nature of its contents compared with what VMS normally ships with?  G HP seems to be adopting the unfortunate Microsoft habit of giving later K field-test packages release numbers, with the 'SP1' update constituting theeK first appearance of anything like a reliable (well, in the Microsoft sense)fG product.  That does not strike me as a good sign, especially given thatiI quality has up until now been one of the foremost differentiators for VMSlH and the 'release' of field-test-quality software seems likely to tarnish that image in very short order.l   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:41:29 -0400r' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9785@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bill,e   Re: release numbers ..  G If I recall, VMS V7.0 was supported, but not recommended for production H environments. It was the first 64bit release and again, if memory servesH me right, the official recommendation for production use was "wait until V7.1".   Regards   
 Kerry Main Solutions Architecte Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesw Voice: 613-592-46607 Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20 Sent: October 16, 2002 11:47 AM: To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!      : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:SMYqzg+VNZka@eisner.encompasserve.org...n2 > In article <3DAD19E0.DFC49ED6@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik8 =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?S=3DF6derholm?=3D <aaa@aaa.com> writes: > , > > Wasn't the first Alpha VMS version 1.5 ?" > > And the second 6.<something> ? >t' > V1.0 was first, then V1.5, then V6.1.e >  > > JF Mezei wrote:e > >>H > >> Seems strange to be going from 7.3-1 to 8,.2 without a 8.0. I think thatG > >> customers will clue in to the fact that 8.2 is really 8.0 from then point of > >> view of reliability., > >>1 > >> Will there be 8.1 and 8.2 on alpha and vax ?  > H > The announcements in St. Louis said 8.0 and 8.1 would be Itanium-only,  F > while 8.2 would be on VAX, Alpha and Itanium.  Thus 8.2 takes the=20- > place that 6.1 had in "unifying" platforms.r  H The suggestion (which I agree with) seems to be that things that are notG conventional VMS releases are being called releases (regardless of what.B numbers they are given).  The slide previously mentioned pointedlyD called 8.2 a *production quality* release, which leaves the definiteE impression that 8.0 and 8.1 are something less.  Their timing does as@H well:  does anyone really believe that a 'production quality' release inG any currently-understood sense of the term as it applies to VMS will benG shipping less than 6 months after a minimal VMS system first manages tob? boot on Itanic without crashing immediately - leaving aside thevH decidedly minimal nature of its contents compared with what VMS normally ships with?e  G HP seems to be adopting the unfortunate Microsoft habit of giving lateroG field-test packages release numbers, with the 'SP1' update constitutingsH the first appearance of anything like a reliable (well, in the MicrosoftC sense) product.  That does not strike me as a good sign, especiallyl< given that quality has up until now been one of the foremostH differentiators for VMS and the 'release' of field-test-quality software7 seems likely to tarnish that image in very short order.m   - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:21:49 +0000 (UTC)2+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)o, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!+ Message-ID: <aok3mt$8da$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>s  c In article <SMYqzg+VNZka@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: d >In article <3DAD19E0.DFC49ED6@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: > + >> Wasn't the first Alpha VMS version 1.5 ? ! >> And the second 6.<something> ?t >u& >V1.0 was first, then V1.5, then V6.1. >o >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> L >>> Seems strange to be going from 7.3-1 to 8,.2 without a 8.0. I think thatO >>> customers will clue in to the fact that 8.2 is really 8.0 from the point ofs >>> view of reliability. >>> 0 >>> Will there be 8.1 and 8.2 on alpha and vax ? > G >The announcements in St. Louis said 8.0 and 8.1 would be Itanium-only,:H >while 8.2 would be on VAX, Alpha and Itanium.  Thus 8.2 takes the place& >that 6.1 had in "unifying" platforms.  H It would make more sense to follow the VAX / Alpha example and have the  itanium versions as say :-   V 0.1  V 0.2   N and then consolidate on a common  V 8.0  (or if things on the itanium side get delayed v 8.1)      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 12:43:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!3 Message-ID: <BbIGkV2xUyno@eisner.encompasserve.org>@  Y In article <aok3mt$8da$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:ne > In article <SMYqzg+VNZka@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:7  H >>The announcements in St. Louis said 8.0 and 8.1 would be Itanium-only,I >>while 8.2 would be on VAX, Alpha and Itanium.  Thus 8.2 takes the place ' >>that 6.1 had in "unifying" platforms.  > J > It would make more sense to follow the VAX / Alpha example and have the  > itanium versions as say :- >  > V 0.1  > V 0.2  > P > and then consolidate on a common  V 8.0  (or if things on the itanium side get > delayed v 8.1)  D That is what they specifically avoided at 6.1, since .0 releases areD typically "not ready for prime time".  There should be few surprisesC for Alpha users in 8.2 due to Itanium integration.  I would suspectt' DII-COE support to be more troublesome.y  D There were many jokes in St. Louis about Mark eating his Los AngelesA words regarding "never want to see VMS V8.0".  Mark's own line ino- that regard was "Gee, I could have had a V8".h   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.572 ************************