1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 17 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 574       Contents:( Re: 3 node cluster w/shadowing questions( Re: 3 node cluster w/shadowing questions Re: Anyone have HSD05 docs?  RE: Anyone have HSD05 docs? * Re: Booting a VMS cluster node using BOOTP$ Command recall and help in utilities( Re: Command recall and help in utilities( Re: Command recall and help in utilities( Re: Command recall and help in utilities( Re: Command recall and help in utilities Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP  Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP ( RE: Debugging AST and Event Flag lockups( Re: Debugging AST and Event Flag lockups( Re: Debugging AST and Event Flag lockups Re: DIR shows "no such file" Re: DIR shows "no such file" Re: DIR shows "no such file" RE: DIR shows "no such file" Re: DS10L 512MB 60GB USD699  Re: DS10L 512MB 60GB USD699  Re: DS10L 512MB 60GB USD699  Re: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD? RE: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD? Re: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD? Re: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD? Re: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD?! Getting info about patches on VMS % Re: Getting info about patches on VMS  Re: Hammer SPECint/SPECfp $ Re: HoPping along with two left feet7 RE: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! ) Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line  Is anyone using this product? ! Re: Is anyone using this product? ! Re: Is anyone using this product? ! Re: Is anyone using this product? ! Re: Is anyone using this product?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Life after VMS?  Linker tip of the day 
 Lurt table RE: Lurt table RE: Lurt table Re: Lurt table Re: MAIL management utility  Re: MAIL management utility % Re: Mozilla doesn't like comp.os.vms? 8 Re: Open-source replacement for Digital Standard Runoff?8 Re: Open-source replacement for Digital Standard Runoff?8 Re: Open-source replacement for Digital Standard Runoff?8 Re: Open-source replacement for Digital Standard Runoff?N Re: OpenVMS7.2-1 and 7.3-1 and NFS (seeking SOME sort of file shareing) HELP!! Re: PeopleSoft on VMS ' Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium & Re: stuck process after v7.3-1 upgrade& Re: stuck process after v7.3-1 upgrade  TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problem) Re: TCPIP,VMS 7.2.1 Alpha, license issue?  Re: The Good CEO. Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. RE: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels. Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel4 Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channel VMS training in France ?; Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) ; Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) ; Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) ; Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) ; Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004! # Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:34:47 +0200 $ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>1 Subject: Re: 3 node cluster w/shadowing questions 0 Message-ID: <aom07p$v9p$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  2 "Adrian Graham" <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk> wrote > Hi,  > 
 <..snip..>7 > Volume shadowing keeps the backup machine up to date. 
 <..snip..> > H > It's been quite a while since I was involved with such a setup so I've > got a couple of questions. > B > 1) what's the correct dismount procedure for the shadow disks toH > ensure as much as possible that a minicopy is performed when the nodesH > are rebooted. I know that on the backup machine its shadow members canH > be dismounted with /policy=minicopy, but what about the shadow master?  H The question in this case is: why would you want to dismount the disks ?? How long would the one member of the shadow set be dismounted ? F If you do not plan to shutdown either side i do not see any reason why# you would want to dismount at all..    > H > 2) Say the primary is running an archiving batch job and it goes down;E > how stable can we assume the remote shadow disks will be for moving ? > the archive job to the backup machine? The whole point of the E > shadowing being present is for redundancy so I'd like to think they - > wouldn't have to have to resort to backups!   = If the shadow sets are complete ( i.e. both members present ) A at the moment of the 'going down' you could move ( i.e. restart ) J the job to (on) the other machine immediately after the cluster transition? is complete ( duration depending on various sysgen parameters ) + given the job supports a restart mechanism.    > E > 3) When the primary is ready to come back into the cluster with the H > backup machine still running the shadow disks should it be possible toH > just bring it back in? Obviously at that point we're not worried aboutF > minicopies, but general thinking is that the whole cluster has to be/ > rebooted for the primary to retake its 'role'  > J Yes that is in fact the case, the disks of the primary site would be added to the  shadow sets. What you would want to do is: H ) If you want to avoid starting only one side after both sides have been down, H  ( yes, things like these happen ) you could add a little logic to ( for	 example ) G your sylogicals.com where you check the availability of the node on the  other H side. And only continue booting after either both sides are available orF manual operator intervention (after a complete blackout on both sides)  Because in such a case I ( if mounting only one side of the disks ) only a system manager can tell  the H system what to do, i.e. which half of the shadow sets contains the valid information.   > thanks in advance! > 
 UR welcomeD Peter "prepared to help anybody who sets up new VMS sites!!" Flunger   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 09:33:13 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 1 Subject: Re: 3 node cluster w/shadowing questions = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0210170833.7bf962aa@posting.google.com>   p Adrian Graham <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk> wrote in message news:<e13rquccji9skclc67dg853gl1sls2s8qv@4ax.com>...D > One of my customers has a 3 node cluster consisting of 2 fat ES40sF > with a DS10 as a quorum node. Each ES40 is on either side of a river@ > separated by a dedicated fibre link, and each ES40 has its own? > Storageworks rack connected to 4 KZPAC controllers. Node 1 is G > considered the primary for the cluster as it's the main one the users B > connect to; node 2 is considered a 'backup' or hot swap machine.7 > Volume shadowing keeps the backup machine up to date.   B > 1) what's the correct dismount procedure for the shadow disks toH > ensure as much as possible that a minicopy is performed when the nodesH > are rebooted. I know that on the backup machine its shadow members canH > be dismounted with /policy=minicopy, but what about the shadow master?  D To avoid a shadow copy entirely, the cross-site shadowsets should beB dismounted before either disk-serving node goes down, because each? node is MSCP-serving its disks to the other node.  Under normal B circumstances, this can be accomplished by doing a shutdown on allF nodes with the CLUSTER_SHUTDOWN option; this causes each node to pauseC at the end of shutdown, still MSCP-serving disks (so the other node A can dismount the shadowset cleanly), until the other node(s) also C reach the same point, then they all go down together.  If there are @ any problems in this area, they are usually related to some fileD remaining open on the shadowset, preventing it from being dismounted cleanly.  E If you know that one disk-serving node will be going down, but coming B back later, you can use the Mini-Copy feature.  Here, a bit-map isD kept on one of the nodes that stays up, and the bitmap records whichA 127-block segments of the shadowset were changed while the absent F member was gone; when that member returns, only those portions need to6 be updated.  See John Andruszkiewicz's presentation atE http://vmsone.com/dfwdays/Presentations/AtoZUpdate.PPT for more info.   F If a node simply crashes without warning, Mini-Copy can't be used, and a Full-Copy will be needed.   H > 2) Say the primary is running an archiving batch job and it goes down;E > how stable can we assume the remote shadow disks will be for moving ? > the archive job to the backup machine? The whole point of the E > shadowing being present is for redundancy so I'd like to think they - > wouldn't have to have to resort to backups!   A Volume Shadowing writes to all shadowset members before returning ? success status to the application, so the remote copy should be ! perfectly suitable for a restart.   E > 3) When the primary is ready to come back into the cluster with the H > backup machine still running the shadow disks should it be possible toH > just bring it back in? Obviously at that point we're not worried aboutF > minicopies, but general thinking is that the whole cluster has to be/ > rebooted for the primary to retake its 'role'   F It is possible to reboot the primary machine, and actually have it runC off the copy of the data on the remote shadowset member.  Then at a C convenient time (hopefully soon), a shadow copy can be initiated to B bring the Primary-side disks up-to-date and restore the cross-siteE redundancy provided by the shadowsets.  It is not necessary to reboot ? the whole cluster.  Some care in writing the startup procedures C (particularly in the area of disk mounts) to accomodate this option D will help.  If nothing special is done, typically a full shadow-copyE would be initiated immediately when the primary-site node is rebooted E and the shadowset mount commands are executed, and a shadow full-copy * may or may not be convenient at that time.  F There's a lot more info on disaster-tolerant clusters (including notes* from my new day-long seminar at HP-ETS) atE http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/.  (Geocities is free, and I use F it because I'm cheap, but they cut off access if access data rates get8 high, so if you can't reach it, simply try again later.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:49:08 -0000  From: system@vms.user.org $ Subject: Re: Anyone have HSD05 docs?/ Message-ID: <uqt5d4mm4hoo73@corp.supernews.com>    Thanks!   # Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> wrote:  : [posted and mailed]    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:02:27 -0400 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> $ Subject: RE: Anyone have HSD05 docs?K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B87@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   3 I've never used HSD05s but I've done a bunch of 10s 3 and 50s...and you change the DSSI via software, not  DIP switches.   - Have you tried using the SET HOST/DUP command " to see what you can do with an 05?  / You can frequently tell DSSI devices to report  4 themselves as having a different address other that $ the one that the hardware is set to.  4 (I think that's because those little node plugs with3  the prongs you break off to set DSSI addresses on  6  certain devices are never findable when you *really*   need one.)    -----Original Message-----8 From: "system@vms.user.org" [mailto:system@vms.user.org]) Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 2:21 PM  To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com"   Subject: Anyone have HSD05 docs?    2 Does anyone have HSD05 documentation or better yet2 can point me to it on the web so that I can change1 it's DSSI id? I see some dip switches but I don't 0 know if this is where it is changed or what each position means.    Thanks.    ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:00:41 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 3 Subject: Re: Booting a VMS cluster node using BOOTP 2 Message-ID: <dozr9.19$Uc3.302091@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Preboot eXecution Environment.  It is a superset of BOOTP being pushed by H Intel and Microsoft.  It's a IP based method using MTFTP etc.  It is theC network boot support that is embedded in the Itanium firmware (EFI) L environment.  VMS currently can service a MOP (a DEC-specific protocol) bootI request, which will continue to work for Alpha and VAX remote boots.  For K IPF remote boots, VMS will service PXE boot requests (no MOP for remote IPF  boots).       A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3DAE2254.4ED1FFE5@fsi.net>...  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  >>G >> I would look for PXE booting in the future.  PXE is sort of BOOTP on 6 >> steroids being used by Itanium for network booting. > > >Could I convince you to share the translation of the acronym? >  >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  > ) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:21:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Command recall and help in utilities , Message-ID: <3DAE56B2.EAF4DB55@videotron.ca>  L How is command recall done in utilities such as SYSGEN, TCPIP etc ? Is thereJ just a system service that does the job automatically, or must the utility actually do this manually  ?  L Also, where is the doc located for providing on-line help within a program ?6 (agains, as in done in SYSGEN, TCPIP, INSTALL etc etc)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:46:46 GMT $ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU1 Subject: Re: Command recall and help in utilities 8 Message-ID: <00A158F6.C053D6BA@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3DAE56B2.EAF4DB55@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  M >How is command recall done in utilities such as SYSGEN, TCPIP etc ? Is there K >just a system service that does the job automatically, or must the utility  >actually do this manually  ?   I If the utility doesn't do anything, it gets last-line recall and editing   from the terminal driver.   N What it has to do to get multi-line recall is use SMG routines (but I've neverL actually implemented this, so I can't say how down-and-dirty you have to getN to use them).  I think these have been available since VMS 4.4.  (HELP RTL SMGN has the routines, but in alphabetical order and without an overview; I think I7 recall that there's a manual which might be more help.)    -- Alan    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 05:28:10 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) 1 Subject: Re: Command recall and help in utilities = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0210170428.238abccc@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DAE56B2.EAF4DB55@videotron.ca>... N > How is command recall done in utilities such as SYSGEN, TCPIP etc ? Is thereL > just a system service that does the job automatically, or must the utility > actually do this manually  ?   I smg$read_composed_line is what you are after. I'll do this in BASIC - too 2 late in the evening for C (and string descriptors)  D    %include "$smgmsg" %from %library "sys$library:basic$starlet.tlb"I    %include "lbr$routines" %from %library "sys$library:basic$starlet.tlb" I    %include "lib$routines" %from %library "sys$library:basic$starlet.tlb" I    %include "smg$routines" %from %library "sys$library:basic$starlet.tlb"   +    declare integer keyboard_id, keytable_id     declare word length      declare string result  0    call smg$create_virtual_keyboard(keyboard_id))    call smg$create_key_table(keytable_id)   O    while smg$read_composed_line(keyboard_id, keytable_id, result, "Prompt> ", &         length) <> smg$_eof  8        print "you typed "; result; " of length "; length  M        call lbr$output_help(loc(lib$put_output),,, "sys$help:helplib.hlb",, & C            loc(lib$get_input)) if edit$(result, 2% or 32%) = "HELP"       next   H If you want to use this with CLI you can include a call to cli$dcl_parse; with wrapped calls to smg$read_composed_line as parameters.   H There is another issue as well with the CLI - for example you might want6 to support, like most things do, MCR myproggie command  H To do this, check if parameters have been passed to your program, and ifG so grab them with lib$get_foreign (or argc/argv in C - although even in E C, you can skip making argv(s) a descriptor with lib$get_foreign) and  do a separate cli$dcl_parse.  N > Also, where is the doc located for providing on-line help within a program ?8 > (agains, as in done in SYSGEN, TCPIP, INSTALL etc etc)  = lbr$output_help is what you need - included in above example.   E I guess you could also go for command recall in a help session if you  want?    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 07:36:46 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: Command recall and help in utilities 3 Message-ID: <0+eEuh2AK4p8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <00A158F6.C053D6BA@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: ^ > In article <3DAE56B2.EAF4DB55@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > N >>How is command recall done in utilities such as SYSGEN, TCPIP etc ? Is thereL >>just a system service that does the job automatically, or must the utility >>actually do this manually  ? > K > If the utility doesn't do anything, it gets last-line recall and editing   > from the terminal driver.  > P > What it has to do to get multi-line recall is use SMG routines (but I've neverN > actually implemented this, so I can't say how down-and-dirty you have to get > to use them).   H I found it rather easy in 1988, and in 2002 I just copy my earlier work.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 08:10:33 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: Command recall and help in utilities 3 Message-ID: <h5MMFa9pJ0lM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3DAE56B2.EAF4DB55@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   N > Also, where is the doc located for providing on-line help within a program ?8 > (agains, as in done in SYSGEN, TCPIP, INSTALL etc etc)  C    See the Utilities Routines Manual for the API to help libraries, E    and te Command Definition, Librarian, and Message Utilities Manual H    for how to use the library command to make and update help libraries.  C    You may also want to look at the Digital Standard Runnoff manual .    for a tool to help write help library text.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 07:51:19 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)" Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210170651.32fde75f@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DAE0613.E86A1C9B@videotron.ca>...  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:F >  There are other time-wasters. Why does DIRECTORY/DATE/TOTAL take so% > > much longer than DIRECTORY/TOTAL?  >   E > > Also, why does DIRECTORY /VERSION=1 take longer than DIRECTORY ;?  >   F > > And why does PURGE/CONFIRM followed by QUIT take so long to exit?  > J > Well, here we have proof that VMS is no good and should be replaced with > Windows... :-)  < Hey, I've got a *MUCH* longer list of gripes about Windows.   L > Is there something inherently inefficient compared to other OS file systemO > with VMS storing file information in 3 places (Indexf.SYS, the directory file  > and the file itself ?) > M > Do other OS file systems have fewer sources of information for a file which Q > makes the file system faster ? Or do most of them have a similar architecture ?   B I don't think the file system is at fault here -- I think it's theC programs. With DIRECTORY/DATE/TOTAL, it really seems to be that the @ *program* is looking up the dates of all files and then just not< displaying them because the /TOTAL qualifier is present. ForF DIRECTORY/VERSION=n, it seems to be that DIRECTORY counts all versionsF of files even after it has found n of each of them. For PURGE/CONFIRM,C it appears that the program is checking for old versions of all the B remaining files after the user has entered QUIT. In fact, it takesC much longer to run on a directory with many files in it than on one F with only a few files. We're quitting! Why does it not just exit right0 after the quit? DELETE/CONFIRM seems to do that.  : It's not the file system at fault here. It's the commands.  E Now, there may be good reason as to why they're written that way, but 2 no one has produced any, and I can't think of any.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 08:27:50 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) " Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0210170727.4d03db0b@posting.google.com>    > 3 > $ BACKUP DISK1:[BLAH],DISK2:[BLAH],DISK3:[BLAH] -  >   MKA0:SAVE-SET-NAME.BCK !.  >   A Ouch! This should not be one save_set! There is no way to easily  E restore these files. This should be three backups to three save_sets.   3 >     $ BACKUP SEARCH_LIST: MKA0:SAVE-SET-NAME.BCK   > F > where SEARCH_LIST is a logical name search list. Then there's no way= > during the restore to know whether SEARCH_LIST had multiple C > equivalence names or not during the save operation; hence, BACKUP E > would not have enough information to tell whether to read the whole 3 > save set or not. So in general, it can't be done.   G So, backup parses the input spec(s) and translates all logicals anyway, < doesn't it? How else would it "know" which files to process?  
   DL Phillips    ----------------------s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0210161523.6cb83480@posting.google.com>... k > whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) wrote in message news:<af0dc2ea.0210160913.64b2d8e@posting.google.com>...  > [...] O > > > Perhaps difficult since on tape one can have more than one file with the  ( > > > same name AND version number.  :-| > > N > > I'd like to see: if  /select=file.whatever or any such where the directoryM > > is not specific, then the save_set would indeed be searched to the end as  > > it is now. > > D > > but: if /select=[specific.directory]file.whatever where the specD > > is unambiguous (allowing for versioning) then the end of search I > > is obvious and backup should end once the specified files are copied. G > > We shouldn't have more than one [specific.directory] in a save_set, 9 > > and if we do we aren't doing something right, are we?  > > 7 > > I don't see that the logic would be that difficult.  >    > D > Well, you'd also have to check if the input parameter was a list.  > ! > Suppose you did a command like   > 3 > $ BACKUP DISK1:[BLAH],DISK2:[BLAH],DISK3:[BLAH] -  >   MKA0:SAVE-SET-NAME.BCK !.  > H > Then you'd have to search the whole save set because the original diskE > information is not available as BACKUP checks each file-spec in the E > save set and you could then easily have multiple occurrences of the E > same directory and file combination. So you'd at least also have to  > check for that.  > % > Now, suppose you did a command like  > 3 >     $ BACKUP SEARCH_LIST: MKA0:SAVE-SET-NAME.BCK   > F > where SEARCH_LIST is a logical name search list. Then there's no way= > during the restore to know whether SEARCH_LIST had multiple C > equivalence names or not during the save operation; hence, BACKUP E > would not have enough information to tell whether to read the whole 3 > save set or not. So in general, it can't be done.  > D > Well, I suppose you could fully pre-analyze it during the save and$ > record the result in the save set. >  >  --- *** --- > E > Perhaps it would work for selective restores from /IMAGE backups. I G > can't think of a reason right now why it shouldn't, so maybe it could F > be done for those. But I suspect that the BACKUP developers expectedF > that any restore using /SELECT would be done interactively with /LOGG > in which case the user could do his own premature abort and that such ? > a feature was not worth the cost and effort and that it would G > introduce a new potential source of bugs and that it didn't rank high E > enough on the list of many things they'd like to do but didn't have F > the time or money for. I think it's probably mostly the last reason.C > They concentrated on data integrity. Plus they had to work on bug  > fixes first. > E > There are other time-wasters. Why does DIRECTORY/DATE/TOTAL take so E > much longer than DIRECTORY/TOTAL? The DIRECTORY command is probably A > looking up the dates in the file headers. But it's not going to H > display them anyway! Why is this bad? Because many people have symbolsH > like DIR:==DIRECTORY/SIZE=ALL/DATE/PROT and interactively they may runG > something like DIR/TOTAL which will then take much longer to run than  > DIRECTORY/TOTAL. > H > Also, why does DIRECTORY /VERSION=1 take longer than DIRECTORY ;? ThisE > is bad because /VERSION=n where n is a small number also takes "too F > long". It runs as if its checking every version of every file in the > directory. > H > And why does PURGE/CONFIRM followed by QUIT take so long to exit? WhatC > is it doing? It takes much longer than DELETE/CONFIRM followed by  > QUIT.  > & > (Problems above tested on VMS v6.1.) >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2002 06:49 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 1 Subject: RE: Debugging AST and Event Flag lockups - Message-ID: <17OCT200206490464@gerg.tamu.edu>   ( Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes...I }using EF0 is no longer the recommended approach. There's a special value H }(constant) for "don't use an EF". I don't have it to hand just now, but6 }it should be in an up to date system services manual.  . EFN$C_ENF, which is (currently) the value 128.  2 "ENF" = Event Not Flagged, or something like that.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 08:02:09 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: Debugging AST and Event Flag lockups 3 Message-ID: <bkn+yi3EGHK+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <H43H2C.C5y@news.boeing.com>, nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com () writes: >  > = > *) the AST also calls C RTL I/O; in the main() we have set    > decc$set_reentrancy(C$C_AST) ;  H    If the AST enters a wait state, such as due to synchronous C RTL I/O,    it blocks the main thread.    >  > ! > I have the following questions;  > @ > *) how do you examine event flags; I know you can from another4 > terminal do a $ show process/id=xxxxxxx/continuous- > is there a way to do this in VMSdebugger?;    H    Local event flags are in the process header and can be seen via SDA's    show process command.  E > *) what about doing a "deposit" to set an event flag with debugger;   1    The process header is not user mode writeable.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 07:24:18 -0700- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) 1 Subject: Re: Debugging AST and Event Flag lockups = Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0210170624.50b47ded@posting.google.com>   D Please create a simplified compilable program that demonstrates this  problem.  It helps tremendously.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:07:24 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>% Subject: Re: DIR shows "no such file" . Message-ID: <3DAED22C.C7315D0B@mindspring.com>   Chris Olive wrote:  j > Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DADAF40.C8B68D28@mindspring.com>...: > > Most user files  have only one entry in one directory,9 > > but $ SET FILE /ENTRY allows you to create additional A > > directory entries, all pointing to the same single underlying 9 > > file. The analagous command (which escapes me but may 6 > > be $ DELETE /ENTRY) allows you to remove directory > > entries. > B > Oh, not to get all persnickitty on you, but then again this is aE > (not-often-enough!) "technical" forum...  Precisely, the command is E > SET FILE/ENTER for the former and SET FILE/REMOVE for the later (as A > someone already wrote.)  With all that you wrote about FIDs and E > INDEXF.SYS, etc. it's obvious *you* probably know; this is just for , > the benefit of other readers that may not.  ) Oh, no offense taken! Those were never my ( favorite commands anyway, I've been away/ from them too long, and had no ready reference. ) Thanks to you (and everyone else) who got 
 them correct!    Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 09:51:45 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)% Subject: Re: DIR shows "no such file" = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210170851.5956c87a@posting.google.com>   \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C2750F.8BD58260@sulfer.icius.com>...E > With a little offline advice from a couple of kind people, I have a F > workaround. However, it got weirder, and I still don't have a properJ > fix. SET FILE/REMOVE didn't work, before anyone asks. Complains about no1 > such file. There's also no ACLs attached to it.  > E > So, I renamed everything else into a new directory, and swapped the F > directory names so I now have a new dir sans dodgy file reference. IC > then SET FILE /NODIR'd the old directory and deleted it, then ran E > ANAL/DISK/REPAIR to clean up any resulting mess. To my surprise, it I > found the supposedly nonexistant file and put it in syslost. Here's the J > kicker, it's still got the same problem. I am now officially confused asH > hell. It doesn't seem to be using any disk space though - it's usually> > enormous, and the disk's usually close to full, so I'd know. > G > The urgency's gone, but if anyone has an explanation for this one I'd  > love to hear it.  E Can you please provide a log of your session in which you tried these ? things? IOW, run the commands you tried, then cut and paste the @ commands and their output to your post. I don't think anyone can< provide any more help without at least that.  A *cleaned-up*; SETHOST.LOG from SET HOST 0 /LOG=SETHOST.LOG would be good.   E Other relevant info like VMS version and platform would also be nice.  ODS-2? ODS-5? Etc.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 11:59:58 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org% Subject: Re: DIR shows "no such file" 3 Message-ID: <LYrVBKdMJtmt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3DADAF40.C8B68D28@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes: 7 > What you see in a directory is simply an alias of the > > real file. Directories just provide a translation table from5 > the human-usable filename to the (internal) File ID 7 > number. All the rest of the data that is displayed by 3 > $ DIRECTORY comes from reading the data about the  > file stored in INDEXF.SYS.  D Yep. $ DIR and $ DIR /FILE_ID will work without having to access the> underlying file.  Anything that attempts to display additional? information ($ DIR /DATE, DIR /OWNER, DIR /PROT, etc) will give C you a "no such file" diagnosis when it realizes that the pointed-to  file does not exist.  8 > Most user files  have only one entry in one directory,7 > but $ SET FILE /ENTRY allows you to create additional ? > directory entries, all pointing to the same single underlying 7 > file. The analagous command (which escapes me but may 4 > be $ DELETE /ENTRY) allows you to remove directory
 > entries.  5 It's $ SET FILE /ENTER=alias-file-name true-file-name & and $ SET FILE /REMOVE alias-file-name  3 > It sounds like someone did a $ SET FILE /ENTRY on 7 > your mysterious file, thus creating at least a second : > directory entry for it. Then they did an rm, err, I mean2 > $ DELETE which removed one directory entry *AND* > the real file.  7 Plausible.  A trashed file header can also produce this  symptom.  7 > Before you fix it, you may want to study this file in 0 > more detail, but IIRC, $ ANALYZE /DISK can fix3 > this up for you automagically. Alternatively, the 1 > command I can't remember (which may be $ DELETE 0 > /ENTRY) can remove this one orphaned directory > entry for you.  ; $ DIR /FILE_ID can give you some information.  $ DUMP /FILE ? disk:[000000]INDEXF.SYS /BLOCK=(COUNT=1,START=a-good-guess) can 4 show you the file header pointed to by that file id.  ? Folks have told me how to refine that "a-good-guess" by looking : in the home block but but I almost always just hunt around starting at fid-num + 100.  ; If it's a trashed file header, you _may_ be able to recovera9 the prior contents.  Or you may decide that it's safer toi? reclaim the disk space with $ ANALYZE /DISK /REPAIR and restorea( from backups -- possibly on a new drive.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:39:25 -0700g$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>% Subject: RE: DIR shows "no such file" 0 Message-ID: <01C275C9.7ADFAA70@sulfer.icius.com>  F Thanks to all who have contributed on this one. Especially Hein V. and3 Brian S. who really went out of their way, offline.B  D Last night I got serious and rebooted the system, and the files cameH back. They no longer showed "no such file", could be read and deleted asG normal. Even the one I'd forced into syslost. I backed the disk up, ranSG ANAL/MEDIA/EXER (the bad block utility) on it, which produced no outputhG (next time I'll add /log), and restored the disk. My prime suspect is ae+ hardware glitch, or maybe a confused cache.t  G I'll be watching the disk very closely from here on in. It's a good jobe take decent backups.   Shaneu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:01:54 GMTe. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)$ Subject: Re: DS10L 512MB 60GB USD6993 Message-ID: <CMwr9.51474$N_6.687993@news.chello.at>   P In article <uqs5pt23cqvca7@news.supernews.com>, "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> writes:
 >www.hpaq.nett  : So, it is a EV6 466MHz and the CDROM/Floppy Unit is $300 ?3 And additional $2000 for 600MHz instead of 466MHz ?S   Nice thingie.   H What SCSI Controller do you recommend for a SCSI cluster solution (means= some ~180GB Disks on a shared bus - maybe with HBVS or HBR) ?n   -- t Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialistm E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:40:57 -0400 # From: "Island" <sales@islandco.com>n$ Subject: Re: DS10L 512MB 60GB USD699/ Message-ID: <uqtbp9q87cg762@news.supernews.com>o   Actually there is a typo5 The DS10 without CD and floppy should only have 256MBg( But the CD and floppy are Very expensive( As for the 600 - haven't sold one yet...  J As for the SCSI controller, I only know of the following which work in the ALphan   KZPBA-CA UW SCSI SE 8 KZPBA-CB UW SCSI DIFF (HVD) (needed to connect to HSZxx) KZPCA-AA U2 SCSI SE/LVDhD KZPEA-DB U3 SCSI LVD*   Adaptec - may not work on most Alpha systems   Regards    -- David B Turner	 Sales Dpt- Island Computers US Corporationc 2700 Gregory Street 	 Suite 180t Savannah GA 31404c Tel: 912 447 6622g Fax: 912 201 0096M sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com' http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htmR   We sell Alpha Systems !y* All emails are checked for Virus and Worms; "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messages- news:CMwr9.51474$N_6.687993@news.chello.at...aJ > In article <uqs5pt23cqvca7@news.supernews.com>, "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> writes:D > >www.hpaq.nete >b< > So, it is a EV6 466MHz and the CDROM/Floppy Unit is $300 ?5 > And additional $2000 for 600MHz instead of 466MHz ?- >  > Nice thingie.c >0J > What SCSI Controller do you recommend for a SCSI cluster solution (means? > some ~180GB Disks on a shared bus - maybe with HBVS or HBR) ?e >r > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERw' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:53:58 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)$ Subject: Re: DS10L 512MB 60GB USD6993 Message-ID: <Gpyr9.52336$N_6.699545@news.chello.at>e  U In article <uqtbp9q87cg762@news.supernews.com>, "Island" <sales@islandco.com> writes:n >Actually there is a typoi6 >The DS10 without CD and floppy should only have 256MB   Sigh ;-)  ) >But the CD and floppy are Very expensivee) >As for the 600 - haven't sold one yet...t  3 Lower the price. 2x 466 is much cheaper than 1x 600h7 Eg. by removing the "Very expensive" CDROM/Floppy unit.   K >As for the SCSI controller, I only know of the following which work in theb >ALpha >d >KZPBA-CA UW SCSI SE9 >KZPBA-CB UW SCSI DIFF (HVD) (needed to connect to HSZxx)v >KZPCA-AA U2 SCSI SE/LVDE >KZPEA-DB U3 SCSI LVD*   Adaptec - may not work on most Alpha systems   K And all qualify as usable in a multi-host-environment (aka SCSI Cluster) ??   K In other words try to bundle a pair of Alphas with SCSI-Controllers, Disks, F Boxes, Cables as a cheap (but EV6[7]) OpenVMS*cluster*hobbyist offer.    Many thanks anyway   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialistp E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:44:34 +0200i From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>' Subject: Re: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD?i& Message-ID: <3DAE5C52.3030202@home.nl>   Dan Moore wrote:   >Greetings!u >e7 >  We are the proud owners of an Alpha DS25. I usually o8 >hate to be one of the first to own such a new box, but 8 >I thought the new series of Alpha's would be worth it. ; >Now I know why I hate to be the first to own a new box...   >f6 >  VMS 7.3-1 is apparently the minimum version of VMS 6 >that the DS25 is supposed to run? I'm floored. We had6 >planned on upgrading to 7.3, but the 7.3 CD will not 3 >see the internal SCSI drives as the upgrade targeth7 >when booted from the internal IDE CD-RW drive. It justf; >sees the IDE devices (Lovely). We have plenty of 7.3 mediav7 >available, but no 7.3-1. We subscribe to the quarterlye; >software updates and also the CSLG (for education), so we o8 >always have plenty of  installation media and licenses 1 >floating around (Except for our VMS 7.3-1). The d7 >subscription service was our alternative to purchasingeC >the CD media with the hardware. Hmmm... better rethink that one...  >-	 >My plan:-; >  Upgrade the VMS on another test box (Alpha 1200) to 7.3,t< >then physically put that disk image on the DS25 and see if 9 >the upgraded VMS 7.3 and the DS25 SCSI drives like each 7: >other.  I have a gut feeling they will, but I wondered if< >anyone had any interesting comments or creative suggestions >about this procedure. >.E I doubt that very much.  A DS25 is essentially half a ES45 I've been  F told. And these machines do need VMS 7.3-1 because it has the support E for the new hardware that is inside of them. It is not just the SCSI rE controller, there is much more to it. We had this same discussion in dI this group regarding the ES45 some time ago, and the conclusion was that   you really need 7.3-1 !a     >r= >  The DS25 came with a VMS 7.3-1 system disk pre-installed,  < >but this is not much help if you want to upgrade from your = >current system disk, which is running VMS 7.1-1H1 very well.o >i: >  After we get over the VMS 7.3-1 issue, we are going to < >cluster the box with the Alpha 1200, and volume shadow over< >Fibre Gig Ethernet. We love VMS and Alpha. We are not faced> >with these issues very often and it will be at least another 8 >3-5 years before we are thinking about upgrading again. >Maybe longer. >S
 >Many Thanks,d >s >Dan >t > L >-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------H >   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!N >-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =----- >  i >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:52:02 -0400i' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>h' Subject: RE: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD? T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660A9C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Re: DS25's and VMS version ..y  
 Reference:@ http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/11432_na/11432_na.html4 Minimum OS support: Tru64 UNIX V5.1A, OpenVMS V7.3-1  @ Note that VMS V7.3-1 is a much better target platform than 7.3 +H applicable patches. There are V7.3-1 Customers that are seeing excellent" performance enhancements over 7.3.  ) V7.3-1 new features info can be found at: : http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/v731features.html   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660u Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s);       -----Original Message-----( From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]=20 Sent: October 17, 2002 2:45 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh' Subject: Re: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD?n         Dan Moore wrote:   >Greetings!n >h6 >  We are the proud owners of an Alpha DS25. I usually: >hate to be one of the first to own such a new box, but=20: >I thought the new series of Alpha's would be worth it.=20= >Now I know why I hate to be the first to own a new box...=20y > 5 >  VMS 7.3-1 is apparently the minimum version of VMSs6 >that the DS25 is supposed to run? I'm floored. We had8 >planned on upgrading to 7.3, but the 7.3 CD will not=203 >see the internal SCSI drives as the upgrade target 7 >when booted from the internal IDE CD-RW drive. It justa; >sees the IDE devices (Lovely). We have plenty of 7.3 mediaa7 >available, but no 7.3-1. We subscribe to the quarterly = >software updates and also the CSLG (for education), so we=20m: >always have plenty of  installation media and licenses=203 >floating around (Except for our VMS 7.3-1). The=20r7 >subscription service was our alternative to purchasingoC >the CD media with the hardware. Hmmm... better rethink that one...s >t	 >My plan:eC >  Upgrade the VMS on another test box (Alpha 1200) to 7.3, then=20oJ >physically put that disk image on the DS25 and see if the upgraded VMS=20G >7.3 and the DS25 SCSI drives like each other.  I have a gut feeling=20 G >they will, but I wondered if anyone had any interesting comments or=20r+ >creative suggestions about this procedure.' > G I doubt that very much.  A DS25 is essentially half a ES45 I've been=20 H told. And these machines do need VMS 7.3-1 because it has the support=20G for the new hardware that is inside of them. It is not just the SCSI=20sG controller, there is much more to it. We had this same discussion in=20aH this group regarding the ES45 some time ago, and the conclusion was that   you really need 7.3-1 !v     >.< >  The DS25 came with a VMS 7.3-1 system disk pre-installed,> >but this is not much help if you want to upgrade from your=20= >current system disk, which is running VMS 7.1-1H1 very well.- >-9 >  After we get over the VMS 7.3-1 issue, we are going toA< >cluster the box with the Alpha 1200, and volume shadow over< >Fibre Gig Ethernet. We love VMS and Alpha. We are not faced@ >with these issues very often and it will be at least another=208 >3-5 years before we are thinking about upgrading again. >Maybe longer. > 
 >Many Thanks,i >u >Dan >S >HC >-----------=3D=3D Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet Newse =3D=3D----------H >   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!C >-----=3D Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 =i
 Servers=20	 >=3D-----t > =20g >o   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 13:42:52 +0100C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) ' Subject: Re: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD?m- Message-ID: <3daea23c.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>0  D In article <3DAE3F64.E8384F49@sosu.edu>, Dan Moore <dmoore@sosu.edu> writes:o   Dan,   |>Greetings! |>8 |>  We are the proud owners of an Alpha DS25. I usually 9 |>hate to be one of the first to own such a new box, but  9 |>I thought the new series of Alpha's would be worth it. o< |>Now I know why I hate to be the first to own a new box...  |>7 |>  VMS 7.3-1 is apparently the minimum version of VMS e7 |>that the DS25 is supposed to run? I'm floored. We hadl7 |>planned on upgrading to 7.3, but the 7.3 CD will not -4 |>see the internal SCSI drives as the upgrade target8 |>when booted from the internal IDE CD-RW drive. It just< |>sees the IDE devices (Lovely). We have plenty of 7.3 media8 |>available, but no 7.3-1. We subscribe to the quarterly< |>software updates and also the CSLG (for education), so we 9 |>always have plenty of  installation media and licenses I2 |>floating around (Except for our VMS 7.3-1). The 8 |>subscription service was our alternative to purchasingD |>the CD media with the hardware. Hmmm... better rethink that one... |>  = If you have a CD-RW (Could you tell us the specific model (shs dev/full)???), burn a 7.3-1 bootable CD.P   eberhard  
 |>My plan:< |>  Upgrade the VMS on another test box (Alpha 1200) to 7.3,= |>then physically put that disk image on the DS25 and see if  : |>the upgraded VMS 7.3 and the DS25 SCSI drives like each ; |>other.  I have a gut feeling they will, but I wondered ifI= |>anyone had any interesting comments or creative suggestions  |>about this procedure.a |>> |>  The DS25 came with a VMS 7.3-1 system disk pre-installed, = |>but this is not much help if you want to upgrade from your -> |>current system disk, which is running VMS 7.1-1H1 very well. |>; |>  After we get over the VMS 7.3-1 issue, we are going to d= |>cluster the box with the Alpha 1200, and volume shadow overv= |>Fibre Gig Ethernet. We love VMS and Alpha. We are not faced ? |>with these issues very often and it will be at least another  9 |>3-5 years before we are thinking about upgrading again.n |>Maybe longer.  |> |>Many Thanks, |> |>Dano |> |>@ |>-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News |>==----------I |>   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!MH |>-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers |>=----- |>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:04:38 -0400e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)' Subject: Re: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD? I Message-ID: <rdeininger-1710020804380001@1cust6.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>s  K In article <3DAE3F64.E8384F49@sosu.edu>, Dan Moore <dmoore@sosu.edu> wrote:a   >Greetings!u >y7 >  We are the proud owners of an Alpha DS25. I usually l8 >hate to be one of the first to own such a new box, but 8 >I thought the new series of Alpha's would be worth it. ; >Now I know why I hate to be the first to own a new box...   > 6 >  VMS 7.3-1 is apparently the minimum version of VMS # >that the DS25 is supposed to run? 4  F Yes, from the DS25 quickspecs:  "Minimum OS support: Tru64 UNIX V5.1A, OpenVMS V7.3-1"i   > I'm floored. We had 6 >planned on upgrading to 7.3, but the 7.3 CD will not 3 >see the internal SCSI drives as the upgrade target:7 >when booted from the internal IDE CD-RW drive. It justj; >sees the IDE devices (Lovely). We have plenty of 7.3 media57 >available, but no 7.3-1. We subscribe to the quarterlyz; >software updates and also the CSLG (for education), so we 58 >always have plenty of  installation media and licenses 1 >floating around (Except for our VMS 7.3-1). The e7 >subscription service was our alternative to purchasing,C >the CD media with the hardware. Hmmm... better rethink that one...m  I Call HP and price the V7.3-1 media kit.  I think it is $20-$25.  You timev is worth way more than that.  E I thought the September Alpha software bundle was supposed to include.E V7.3-1, but I've heard rumors than V7.3 was put in by mistake.  Isn'tlE there a paragraph in the cover letter or something saying the kit wassJ delayed to allow inclusion of V7.3-1?  If so, maybe you can get HP to send you the CDs for free.a  	 >My plan:y; >  Upgrade the VMS on another test box (Alpha 1200) to 7.3,s< >then physically put that disk image on the DS25 and see if 9 >the upgraded VMS 7.3 and the DS25 SCSI drives like each s: >other.  I have a gut feeling they will, but I wondered if< >anyone had any interesting comments or creative suggestions >about this procedure.  F The DS25 wasn't even in the prototype stage when V7.3 came out.  If itH works at all, it's only because the DS25 is so similar to the ES45.  AndH you'd better have at least the minimum ECOs that ES45 requires on V7.3. I Base V7.3 probably won't boot on either system, and it certainly wouldn'te
 be stable.  F If V7.3 runs on DS25 (unsupported), the CD-RW won't work, the on-boardI ethernet won't work, and most system errors and warnings will be reportedsD wrong (if they don't cause crashes).  DS25 was not tested with V7.3.    = >  The DS25 came with a VMS 7.3-1 system disk pre-installed,  < >but this is not much help if you want to upgrade from your = >current system disk, which is running VMS 7.1-1H1 very well.d  J 7.1-1H1 is also unsupported.  Upgrading is a good idea, independent of theG new system purchase.  V7.2-2, V7.3, and V7.3-1 are fine, with the later-I releases being preferred.  Unless, you are using memory channel, in whichl7 case you should avoid V7.3-1 until the fix is released.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:56:07 GMTe5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e' Subject: Re: DS25 Boot from VMS 7.3 CD?p2 Message-ID: <Xjzr9.17$fe3.332939@news.cpqcorp.net>  6 You need V7.3-1 for support of the core logic chipset.    8 Dirk Munk wrote in message <3DAE5C52.3030202@home.nl>... >, >  >Dan Moore wrote:n >v >>Greetings! >>7 >>  We are the proud owners of an Alpha DS25. I usually 8 >>hate to be one of the first to own such a new box, but8 >>I thought the new series of Alpha's would be worth it.; >>Now I know why I hate to be the first to own a new box...i >>6 >>  VMS 7.3-1 is apparently the minimum version of VMS7 >>that the DS25 is supposed to run? I'm floored. We hade6 >>planned on upgrading to 7.3, but the 7.3 CD will not4 >>see the internal SCSI drives as the upgrade target8 >>when booted from the internal IDE CD-RW drive. It just< >>sees the IDE devices (Lovely). We have plenty of 7.3 media8 >>available, but no 7.3-1. We subscribe to the quarterly; >>software updates and also the CSLG (for education), so wem8 >>always have plenty of  installation media and licenses1 >>floating around (Except for our VMS 7.3-1). The68 >>subscription service was our alternative to purchasingD >>the CD media with the hardware. Hmmm... better rethink that one... >>
 >>My plan:< >>  Upgrade the VMS on another test box (Alpha 1200) to 7.3,< >>then physically put that disk image on the DS25 and see if9 >>the upgraded VMS 7.3 and the DS25 SCSI drives like eacha; >>other.  I have a gut feeling they will, but I wondered ifr= >>anyone had any interesting comments or creative suggestions  >>about this procedure.a >>E >I doubt that very much.  A DS25 is essentially half a ES45 I've been F >told. And these machines do need VMS 7.3-1 because it has the supportE >for the new hardware that is inside of them. It is not just the SCSIME >controller, there is much more to it. We had this same discussion in I >this group regarding the ES45 some time ago, and the conclusion was that. >you really need 7.3-1 ! >  >a >>= >>  The DS25 came with a VMS 7.3-1 system disk pre-installed,E< >>but this is not much help if you want to upgrade from your> >>current system disk, which is running VMS 7.1-1H1 very well. >>: >>  After we get over the VMS 7.3-1 issue, we are going to= >>cluster the box with the Alpha 1200, and volume shadow overt= >>Fibre Gig Ethernet. We love VMS and Alpha. We are not faced)> >>with these issues very often and it will be at least another9 >>3-5 years before we are thinking about upgrading again.  >>Maybe longer.t >> >>Many Thanks, >> >>Dano >> >>@ >>-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------I >>   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! H >>-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =----- >> >> >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:50:59 +0530D5 From: "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com>p* Subject: Getting info about patches on VMS/ Message-ID: <uqsvqc165l1v4b@corp.supernews.com>T   Hi  G Is there any command available on VMS by which I could know the patchesY
 installed.; Also what is the command to change the passwd on VMS system    Thanks in advancet	 - sandeepa   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:48:55 GMTf" From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com>. Subject: Re: Getting info about patches on VMS% Message-ID: <3DAE877B.1775E20@hp.com>h   On VMS V7.1-2 and up try   $ PROD SHOW HISTROYj   To change password :   To change your own from DCL    $ SET PASSWORD  5 To change others - $MC AUTHORIZE MODIFY USER/PASS=123o   Guye   Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote:   > Hi >rI > Is there any command available on VMS by which I could know the patches  > installed.= > Also what is the command to change the passwd on VMS system  >O > Thanks in advance0 > - sandeep@   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:29:59 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Hammer SPECint/SPECfp6 Message-ID: <DbicnTPWe-Zu6TOgXTWcpg@News.GigaNews.Com>  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messageT* news:01C27542.262893C0@sulfer.icius.com...I > Interesting, although completely uncorroborated. Supposedly the OpteronAH > (AMD's product name for one of the first 64-bit Hammers expected to beH > released) will have an estimated SPECint 2000 of 1202 and an estimated; > SPECfp of 1170. The supposed AMD slide can be found here: J > http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTAzNDgwODE0OXZQdXFtNGFzbFVfMV8y
 > X2wuanBn  I The information came from this week's MPF presentation by Fred Weber, ando: there's considerable discussion in the News&Views forum at! realworldtech.com.  To synopsize:u  K The SPEC numbers above were obtained on a (real, functioning) 2 GHz Opteron-G executing in 32-bit mode using the Intel compiler.  Fred said that witheF Hammer-optimized 64-bit compilation about 20% (+/-) higher performanceK should be obtainable (a bit more than the 10% - 15% improvement estimated a>L year or so ago, so their compiler work seems to have progressed some), whichK puts Hammer just about exactly where Fred predicted in last year's MPF talkiJ (1400 for SPECint2K, which at the time most people seemed to think sounded somewhat optimistic).   J Unless Hammer (now scheduled for late 1Q03) actually doesn't release untilK the 90 nm Prescott P4 (scheduled for 2H03), that means Hammer should easilygB out-SPEC Pentium (which would have to hit about 3.5 GHz to achieveG comparable performance).  In 64-bit mode it should also easily out-SPECo> Madison in integer performance (as well as appearing earlier).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:02:42 GMTh( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>- Subject: Re: HoPping along with two left feet < Message-ID: <6Vvr9.152690$8o3.4310586@twister.austin.rr.com>  K In message <rdeininger-1510022121180001@1cust222.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>,-3 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote: F > In article <3DA5984F.8010203@caltech.edu>, mathog@caltech.edu wrote: > ? > >A nice lady called me yesterday to inquire if I was going toe@ > >be attending the Virtual Memory System event on October 30th. > .... > >o= > >The folks in VMS engineering might want to investigate whoo< > >HP has making these calls and why they were given such an > >odd script to read from.  > I > You could probably save somebody a lot of time if you revealed the name  of > the lady who called you.  K Must be working for the same AF PHBs I do.  I was to go though a report andiN replace VMS with Virtual Memory System because they wanted all aconyms spelled  out so as not to confuse anyone.   -- r Jay E. Morris @ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:02:43 GMTI( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>@ Subject: RE: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!< Message-ID: <7Vvr9.152691$8o3.4310586@twister.austin.rr.com>  O In message <01C27470.01B03700@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>h wrote:C > All the YES/NO posts I've seen so far are I think underestimatingoH > Andrew. Is he anti-VMS? Yes. Is he usually spreading FUD? Yes. Does heG > let his emotions get in the way of good sense? Oh yes. Do I like him?tG > Hell no. But I don't think he's as dumb as some people think. There'skB > often some very good points buried among his other (ahem) stuff. > I > Any good military manual will advise you not to underestimate an enemy.  >  > Shane  >   M There are many things my father taught me here in this [newgroup].  He taughtT5 me, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.     h > -----Original Message-----8 > From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]) > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:51 PMZ > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComvB > Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! >  > B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message0 > news:<KoYq9.27$qn1.516127@news.cpqcorp.net>...J > > Tell you what Andy.  Lets have a vote.  I'll abide by it.  If you fail to; > > get a majority NO vote, then we'll each just fade away.  > > J > > Everyone - please replay with your votes.  I'll abide by the majority. > > M > > Remember a YES vote means "Please go away".  A NO vote means "Please stay  > > and keep writing". > >  > > " > > Fred is a moron:    YES  /  NO! > > Andy is a moron:    YES /  NO- > >  >  > FRED    NO
 > ANDY    YES4 > A > but we need andy to keep posting because he contributes so muchg> > to vms marketing ... every time he posts, vms sales grow ... -- u# Jay E. Morris Epsilon 3 Productionso@ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:47:12 +0100e4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!8 Message-ID: <epftqu47kcng4e1hhi79b37bvmsiceoj6e@4ax.com>  I On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:13:46 -0700, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:u  B >Before any Americans called Gordon on this list get annoyed, he'sE >referring to an 80's punk tune called "Gordon is a moron" by someonec >calling himself "Jilted John".o  J The song was titled "Jilted John" too.  The bit about Gordon was a line in the chorus.c  - All Johns of a certain age know this one ;-))s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:10:47 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyg@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!. Message-ID: <3DAED2F7.9080007@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DAD42ED.6020107@nospamn.sun.com>...s > 4 >>How infantile first you decend into abuse and then2 >>you incite the choir to hum the chorus with you. >>2 >>And since you raise the subject who is the moron( >>here and who is being treated as one ? >> >>AlphaCide. >>0 >>Did you think that the Itanium will outperform7 >>Alpha arguments so indecently soon after the Alpha is75 >>king of the hill and will be for 25 years argumentsi2 >>were flattering to your customers intelligence ? >> >>Alpha Performance. >>: >>Did you think that your arguments for Alphas performance: >>advantage, unsupported by any evidence on your part that? >>supported these claims flattered your customers intelligence.3 >> >>	 >>Regardsn >>Andrew Harrisoni >> >  > G > alpha has been shown to consistently outperform Sun and everyone elsesH > on number of user ratings with oracle and everything else ... in otherF > words, it takes 80 million sun,ibm chips to do what one or two alpha > chips can do ...  6 Bob, you forget yourself again. We had this discussion months ago.   . You if you remember were tasked with providing+ some datapoints that supported your claims.d  $ You if you remember failed to do so.  . Why if you failed to justify these claims last2 time do you think you can justify them this time ?   Regardse Andrew HarrisonE   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:38:49 -0000n- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)t@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!5 Message-ID: <92AA81AE0warrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>a  K kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com (Fred Kleinsorge) wrote in <KoYq9.27$qn1.516127  @news.cpqcorp.net>:t   >oJ >Tell you what Andy.  Lets have a vote.  I'll abide by it.  If you fail to8 >get a majority NO vote, then we'll each just fade away. >-G >Everyone - please replay with your votes.  I'll abide by the majority.n > J >Remember a YES vote means "Please go away".  A NO vote means "Please stay >and keep writing".n >o >e >Fred is a moron:    YES  /  NOu >Andy is a moron:    YES /  NO  D My mother taught me if I don't have something nice to say, then say  nothing.  Therefore:   Fred is a moron:    NO   ws   -- i   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)F The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:18:20 +0200w- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> 2 Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line' Message-ID: <3DAE562D.ACB5E2CB@Free.fr>o   What's that joke?e  : http://www.hpets2002.com/portal/content/sessionBooking.jsp   "Event PresentationsH You must purchase a symposium to have access to the event presentations./ You may purchase a symposium by clicking here".f   D.   Shane Smith wrote: > G > Why the login and e-mail verification? The less hassle to get in, thesB > more people will surf it. I'm assuming there are none of the NDAG > presentations there, so wouldn't it be better to make it open and get  > more people reading them?o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:14:51 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t& Subject: Is anyone using this product?G Message-ID: <v4wr9.7621$mxk1.6509@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t  5 Compaq Enterprise Toolkit Version 2.0-OpenVMS EditionT SPD 70.12.02  ( What have your experiences been with it?   Would you recommend it?l    H I have to call today to see if it is still available or whether is it an officially retired product.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:38:32 -0500R' From: "Earl Lakia" <elakia@hotmail.com> * Subject: Re: Is anyone using this product?6 Message-ID: <UrWcnSd35_vSVjOgXTWcpA@News.GigaNews.Com>  D We have been using it.  For some of our people who were not familiar; with the OpenVMS editors and didn't have an LK450 Keyboard, A it works pretty well.  It was also nice when we had programs thate= ran both on Billy boxes and OpenVMS (e.g., a Hot Mill Rollings@ Model).  It also allowed us to develop remotely (e.g., from home8 over a VNC) and synchronize.  The source code management< doesn't work very well in my opinion.  However, I was trying to use Source Safe versus CMS.  
 Earl Lakia lakia    @   ipact  .   com   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:v4wr9.7621$mxk1.6509@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...e7 > Compaq Enterprise Toolkit Version 2.0-OpenVMS Edition  > SPD 70.12.02 >u* > What have your experiences been with it? >o > Would you recommend it?a >p >tJ > I have to call today to see if it is still available or whether is it an > officially retired product.  >T >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:03:28 -0400f% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>E* Subject: Re: Is anyone using this product?/ Message-ID: <uqtka1bdi2e545@news.supernews.com>e  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:v4wr9.7621$mxk1.6509@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...w7 > Compaq Enterprise Toolkit Version 2.0-OpenVMS Edition  > SPD 70.12.02 >s* > What have your experiences been with it? >.  H I have used it but I never managed to completely switch over to it.  OldD habits are hard to break and it was always easier to use LSE and ourF existing build environment.  It will take some effort to integrate the+ Toolkit with our existing build procedures.o   > Would you recommend it?   K Visual Studio is a great development environment and the Enterprise Toolkit J does a good job of extending that to OpenVMS.  I would certainly recommend itH but I'm concerned that the product has been forgotten/abandoned/retired.K It works with Visual Studio 6, not the latest version (Visual Studio .NET).gK HP has a similar tool for Tru64 and NSK and I believe that the NSK tool nowoC works with Visual Studio .NET but the VMS and Tru64 versions don't.l  L Some of the people who worked on the Enterprise Toolkit have been working onK NetBeans for OpenVMS so maybe they're just spread a little thin.  Or, maybea3 NetBeans in the replacement for Enterprise Toolkit?t   >m >@J > I have to call today to see if it is still available or whether is it an > officially retired product.n >t  5 I would be interested in the answer to that question..   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:32:06 GMTI# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: Is anyone using this product?E Message-ID: <aCBr9.5536$Q3S.226@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>I  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:uqtka1bdi2e545@news.supernews.com...i0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC > news:v4wr9.7621$mxk1.6509@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...,9 > > Compaq Enterprise Toolkit Version 2.0-OpenVMS Editione > > SPD 70.12.02 > > , > > What have your experiences been with it? > >u > J > I have used it but I never managed to completely switch over to it.  OldF > habits are hard to break and it was always easier to use LSE and ourH > existing build environment.  It will take some effort to integrate the- > Toolkit with our existing build procedures.  >l > > Would you recommend it?a >eE > Visual Studio is a great development environment and the Enterprised Toolkit$L > does a good job of extending that to OpenVMS.  I would certainly recommend > itJ > but I'm concerned that the product has been forgotten/abandoned/retired.F > It works with Visual Studio 6, not the latest version (Visual Studio .NET).I > HP has a similar tool for Tru64 and NSK and I believe that the NSK tool  nowRE > works with Visual Studio .NET but the VMS and Tru64 versions don't.- >-K > Some of the people who worked on the Enterprise Toolkit have been workinga onG > NetBeans for OpenVMS so maybe they're just spread a little thin.  Or,@ maybep5 > NetBeans in the replacement for Enterprise Toolkit?o >C > >  > >yL > > I have to call today to see if it is still available or whether is it an > > officially retired product.  > >r >e7 > I would be interested in the answer to that question.    Here's the answer so far....  D The product is still available for VMS - p/n QB-5ZVAA-SA  $598 list.  I I asked when it will be .NET compatible, and the answer was that it wouldpG have to be research by the sales person and that they'd get back to me.s That's fine with me so far.y  J I was a bit concerned about future plans for the VMS version so I asked ifC HP continued to sell the Toolkit under the following circumstances,aL a) HP does not plan to upgrade it to .NET compatibility, but does not retire the product, orN1 b) HP does plan to upgrade to .NET compatibility,   J and in the meantime Visual Studio v6 disappears from the shelves, would HPE undertake to provide a copy of Visual Studio v6 with each copy of theeL toolkit sold. I was also told that this would have to be researched and that they'd get back to me.  H I don't want to be in a situation where we buy a bunch of these toolkitsL soon, find out it's EOL on soon + 1, and that because there are dependenciesE on soon to be unavailable older Microsoft products, that the money isE totally wasted.   G Unfortunately, those are the sorts of questions one has to ask HP these  days.A   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:18:25 -0500-' From: "Earl Lakia" <elakia@hotmail.com> * Subject: Re: Is anyone using this product?6 Message-ID: <U6CcndrYstNVbTOgXTWc3w@News.GigaNews.Com>  @ The product also includes a copy of excursions so if you need an7 x window emulator for your PC, it comes along for free.   ; The developers here who could use both platforms, choose tof7 use the VMS only for most devlopment.  Many people liken@ the number of lines in an editor session over those available in the Visual Studio environment.  5 I don't know what the trade off cost would be between 1 LSE on VMS or a few enterprise tool kit licenses.c     -earlI  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:v4wr9.7621$mxk1.6509@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...d7 > Compaq Enterprise Toolkit Version 2.0-OpenVMS EditionD > SPD 70.12.02 >a* > What have your experiences been with it? >n > Would you recommend it?a >l >hJ > I have to call today to see if it is still available or whether is it an > officially retired product.r >D >s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:02:23 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Life after VMS?F Message-ID: <z0vr9.7093$%h2.3159@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DADBDD9.4536238F@videotron.ca... > Didier Morandi wrote:3L > > You hit the point, JF. Is HP interested in the DEC part (and people, and spirit: > > and products) of CPQ? This is to me the only question. > >tL > > A "normal" answer would be "it depends on the $$ it brings". This is why I do( > > believe that VMS is not dead at all. >IA > During the downfall decade of Digital, many "wrong" people were J > hired/promoted. They are the ones who didn't understand the power of VMS andtJ > saw VMS as a liability (proprietary, expensive, old, legacy etc) instead of an  > asset. >pF > The problem is that it is those very same people that were kept when CompaqD > bought DEC and downsized it. And they will probably stay under HP.  L You've got that right. Total clowns who were in charge of different industry? verticals who couldn't market their way out of a paper bag, who H couldn't/wouldn't communicate to their superiors what the customers were asking for.l  I But DEC/Digital was also organizationally to blame too. It was often veryeD difficult to go through 'official channels' to get something of highF priority done. Customers often had to rely on the guile of their fieldG service reps or sales reps to do an end-run around the paperwork to get  things done expeditiously.  K Many policies were misguided and financially very expensive to the company.h      J > After a company has been bought, with the spectre of many many job cuts, MostF > smart employees will decide to abide by whatever head office decides instead H > of trying to fight to change attitudes.  Folks like Marcello have been betweenbK > a rock and a hard place because they know the potential of their product,s butjG > also know that the minute they try to rock the boat, they are out thes door.   I If a guy in Marcello's position is shown the door, he walks with a decenttH severence package. In a up market, a guy like him has no problem findingD something new - and probably the same holds true even in the current) economic environment. Make waves Rich!!!!h    I > When I look at Stallard's original memo, it is clear that inside of HP,i the K > same anti-VMS attitudes also exist.  (Or the guy was (easily) brainwashedr byH > the "bad" ex-decies and folks like Winkler during the merger pregnancy period).  K > This is why a change in attitudes for VMS *must* come from Carly herself.  OnlyJ > she is able to force a cultural change throughout the organisation. Only CarlysJ > is able to ovverride folks like Curly and Winkler, and possibly StallardF > (judging from his original memo, Stallard would not seem to see much	 potentialg
 > in VMS).  L Agreed. That's why a print media campaign featuring Carly saying, "The jewelJ in the crown of the HP - Compaq merger is VMS" is required. But the ArmaniJ crowd will say, "Has she lost he mind? Is she dropping ergot again? Hasn't she heard about Linux or .NET?    H > Fred and/or Hoff have mentioned that the VMS group was allowed to make someJ > presentations to HP folks about VMS to make them aware of its existence. ThisI > is a good sign. But will this trickle down to local sales offices ?  If  so,tK > will it have just minimal impact because the local office will still have  to. > abide by the big rules made by head office ?  H Allowed??!!?? That makes it sound like they had to grovel in order to beL permitted to make such a presentation. But then again, HP was just as much a: printer and Wintel company as Compaq was a Wintel company.    H > I look forwards to seing that Video of Carly who actually mentions the	 word VMS.v >hI > Now, if Carly is serious about VMS, I would like to see her go to SWIFTi andnK > get them to recommit to VMS (SWIFT dropped VMS from their next generationSJ > products after Palmer told them VMS had no future).  This would start byK > telling a certain person in Valbonnes to stop telling customers that they  can G > migrate from ST400 to Wintel stuff.  (at the very least, he should bes pushingA  > tandem based SWIFT solutions).  J SWIFT won't do it unless their baning and brokerage customers demand a VMSL solution, and Swift's customers won't demand it unless they are running VMS.H And that won't happen unless HP market VMS to the banks and brokers. But that's not going to happen.i  / How many banks and brokers previously used VMS?n	 Most did.C How many use VMS now?s Hardly any.eL How many of those who previously used VMS for Swift gateways will go back toL using VMS after so many years of using unix-based or Wintel-based systems as their gateways.y Hardly any to none.t  J Even if the banks and brokers wanted to move back to VMS, there's hardly aL person left in those organizations who know VMS. That means re-training, andK for most Wintel/unix types if presented with the opportunity to train on anUI 'orphaned' operating system and have that as the major part of their job,lF many would look for employment elsewhere or find other ways to say 'No thanks' to their boss.      L > *IF* Carly takes real, concrete actions to change attitude about VMS, thisG > will happen fairly quickly. For this to happen, someone like Marcellou would I > have to risk his job and position within the organisation, go over many  headsnF > (Stallard, Curly etc) and talk directly to Carly and try to buck the system.d >eI > If they try the slow/quiet approach (as seems to be the case) , it willm nevereI > trickle UP to Carly because there are many layers of people between theoJ > "grunts" and Carly and those layers will not transmit a message to Carly when% > that message contradicts their own.s  K Remember Pauline Nist? VMS advocate, now head of the Tandem group. Where is0L her voice as well on this matter? Has she simply played the corporate 'I'm aF good soldier' game in her career and kept quiet when told to do so. IsL Marcello following a path like that? I don't know the answer in either case,4 but it exists as a possibility for both, and others.    L > Would Capellas have the guts to admit to Carly that he was wrong about VMS and ) > that VMS should become more prominent ?    No.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:34:50 +1000w1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>  Subject: Re: Life after VMS?, Message-ID: <3DAE843A.3020704@tg.nsw.gov.au>   JF Mezei wrote:D > David Froble wrote:r > E >>opposite.  The HP/Compaq merger story is still in the early stages.O >  > L > HP didn't need to make timed commitments for Tandem or HP-UX. But for VMS,@ > they promised to keep it alive for at least X number of years. > O >  My feeling at this point in time is that HP haven't quite made a decision on<P > VMS, so they are keeping it on life support. It didnn't take long for Carly to? > announce more precise fate for Tandem, HP-UX, MPE and Tru64. o > P > So it is normal that customers would not quite grasp what HP is really up to.  > O > What does Carly need before she can make an authoritative decision on VMS andpN > tell all of her troups to comply with her wishes ? (that is how she directs, > isn't she ?) > M > Could they not simply say that once VMS becomes commercially viable on IA64rK > that they would start to work on expanding/marketing/promoting VMS ? ThatIP > would send a clear signal that would let customers know that patience would beO > rewarded. But as it stands, there is no carot at the end of the stick, so whyG$ > should customers stick with VMS  ?  G JF, FYI, troups = troops and carots = carrots.  Yep, I know, typos and o etc. :-)  E What is "commercially viable"?  For us it is somewhat more than just > running DCL and programmes.e  @ I have a small number (about 50 users) of production electrical H engineers who are looking at turning around many variants of electrical H system configurations very quickly.  We currently have a 4 CPU (on EV6) G ES40 which runs at about 400% CPU 24x7.  Budget permitting, we upgrade  8 machine/CPUs as often as possible to enhance turnaround.  E Our development team (moi and a colleague) has been reduced from six iG members a year ago and we develop on a DECstation 3000 so that all our uI budget goes into production enhancements.  Our engineers are not looking iG forward to the idea of moving to IA64 which from all that we have read -F will be slower than what we have now.  Our budget allows us to change H all CPUs to EV79 when available and possible a newer machine if that is  necessary or advantageous.  I And life after VMS looks to my colleague and myself as one major hassle:  F no DECset, no RTLs as we use them, validation of hundreds of routines E through regression testing and acceptance (through understanding) of o@ each and every difference.  Another platform, another compiler!!   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedu> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise2B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.E  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid uA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the t= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with tC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usese> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:58:56 -0400e2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Life after VMS?. Message-ID: <3DAED030.896E0524@mindspring.com>  0 If you're depending on Rich Marcello to stand up, and say something loud (or even whisper into. powerful ears) on behalf of VMS , you might as, well migrate to Solaris or AIX right now and. save yourself a lot of pain in the intervening years.  0 I left Compaq when it was clear that Rich meekly0 accepted the strategy that the VMS market should1 shrink n% per year. (How did I know? I made noisea, in "all-hands" meetings and he stood by that3 statement. In fact, he thought it was a big victoryl1 that he got the intended shrinkage rate reduced.)1/ With a "strategy for success" like that, I knewi Alpha and VMS was a lost cause.    Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:40:50 -07007' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>d Subject: Re: Life after VMS?8 Message-ID: <20021017084050.1f80530b.mathog@caltech.edu>  " On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:34:50 +10002 Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote:   > I > JF, FYI, troups = troops and carots = carrots.  Yep, I know, typos and w
 > etc. :-) > G > What is "commercially viable"?  For us it is somewhat more than just o > running DCL and programmes.w > B > I have a small number (about 50 users) of production electrical J > engineers who are looking at turning around many variants of electrical J > system configurations very quickly.  We currently have a 4 CPU (on EV6) I > ES40 which runs at about 400% CPU 24x7.  Budget permitting, we upgrade  : > machine/CPUs as often as possible to enhance turnaround.  > Bet it would be substantially cheaper to replace the ES40 with? some sort of Beowulf solution than to do the upgrade.  That is,w; if your code is portable enough to run on Linux and doesn't-' require >2GB RAM to run in.  For around @ 30000 dollars (US) one can obtain a single rack, 20 node clusterA with 1Gb ECC RAM, 40GB IDE, Athlon MP2000+ (Or PentiumIV) and the ? rack/switch/cables/etc.  For the right job mix that will easilyy> outperform the ES40.  Spares/service are easily obtained.  The? gcc compilers are free and the Intel compilers are inexpensive.e  % What would the 4 upgrade CPUs cost?  1D For that matter, how much are you spending on maintenance contracts?  hG > Our development team (moi and a colleague) has been reduced from six oI > members a year ago and we develop on a DECstation 3000 so that all our $K > budget goes into production enhancements.  Our engineers are not looking  I > forward to the idea of moving to IA64 which from all that we have read  H > will be slower than what we have now.  Our budget allows us to change J > all CPUs to EV79 when available and possible a newer machine if that is  > necessary or advantageous.  F If you can wait 6 months to a year you'll be able to buy Opteron basedB solutions.  These won't run VMS (because HP is going down with the< Itanic) but it will run Linux, and it will let you configureF nodes with something like 8Gb of RAM, should that be important to you.   > K > And life after VMS looks to my colleague and myself as one major hassle: aH > no DECset, no RTLs as we use them, validation of hundreds of routines G > through regression testing and acceptance (through understanding) of  B > each and every difference.  Another platform, another compiler!!  C Exactly.  You need another platform.  You're going there eventuallyEC because of factors beyond your control.   Might as well look at theaB economics and do it sooner rather than later.  HPQ is committed to> a very high cost model for VMS.  They want/need you to migrateA to an equally expensive alternative hardware and yet offer you no ? compelling reason to do so other than that they will eventually > desupport your current equipment.  Basically they want to suckC the existing VMS customers dry.  VMS is very solid but its a lot ofvB money for a computing platform, and it sounds like you can satisfy8 all of your computing requirements elsewhere.  So do so.   Regards,   -- o David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:22:59 +0200i$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> Subject: Re: Life after VMS?+ Message-ID: <00A15992.AFAA1FDA.16@decus.de>!  5 "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:i  ; > In article <00A158CE.85284B98.22@decus.de>, Michael Ungeru <unger@decus.de> > wrote: >tF > >And it is stated on the very first page of this "Rolling Roadmaps": > >hF > >"HP makes *NO* warranties regarding the accuracy of any information< > >disclosed. This time sensitive information is provided to
 facilitateB > >customer planning processes. HP does *NOT* warrant or represent thatE > >it will introduce any product or feature to which this informationa mayo) > >relate." (Negations emphasized by me.)  > >>D > >So what is the relevance of this "Roadmap" really??? (The same is true > >for "Commitments".) >cA > The questions apply to any other vendor in the industry, right?,  D Correct. But there has been a very special "roadmap" (i.e., history)% with Digital Equipment and Compaq ...    Michael1   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:37:56 GMTb# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Life after VMS?G Message-ID: <EHBr9.7941$mxk1.1908@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messages( news:3DAED030.896E0524@mindspring.com...2 > If you're depending on Rich Marcello to stand up. > and say something loud (or even whisper into0 > powerful ears) on behalf of VMS , you might as. > well migrate to Solaris or AIX right now and0 > save yourself a lot of pain in the intervening > years. >p2 > I left Compaq when it was clear that Rich meekly2 > accepted the strategy that the VMS market should3 > shrink n% per year. (How did I know? I made noise2. > in "all-hands" meetings and he stood by that5 > statement. In fact, he thought it was a big victoryc3 > that he got the intended shrinkage rate reduced.)t1 > With a "strategy for success" like that, I knew ! > Alpha and VMS was a lost cause.      Thank you for that information.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:55:58 +0200.1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>D Subject: Re: Life after VMS?5 Message-ID: <3DAEEB9E.969964E4@swissonline.delete.ch>e   John Smith wrote:C   .....8  N > You've got that right. Total clowns who were in charge of different industryA > verticals who couldn't market their way out of a paper bag, whoiJ > couldn't/wouldn't communicate to their superiors what the customers were
 > asking for.t   ....  PN > Agreed. That's why a print media campaign featuring Carly saying, "The jewelL > in the crown of the HP - Compaq merger is VMS" is required. But the ArmaniL > crowd will say, "Has she lost he mind? Is she dropping ergot again? Hasn't  > she heard about Linux or .NET?    B There's a few things that I want to say that are pertinent to your	 comments:a  H Thing 1 -  HP sales people at the recent ETS were quite impressed by theH capabilities of VMS and they are keen to get selling it.  (I am taking aE report at face value but the source is usually reliable.)  My take onoD this is that HP sales folk know that there is more to computing than problem-ridden Windows boxes.p  G Thing 2 - Carly's presentation at ETS was quite impressive (as has been ? reported in c.o.v. already).  In my opinion any presentation bymE Cappellas is about as sincere and credible as Microsoft talking aboutmE security, but I believe that Carly's was in a whole different league.0  G Thing 3 -  In recent days I have seen two OpenVMS articles from HP that-F make negative or even disparaging comments about Microsoft.  (One is aE slide - No. 18 ? - in the "High Availability" powerpoint presentationoC where it says how many security alerts there have been for OpenVMS, C Solaris and Windows.  Sorry but I can't recall the other one at thehG moment.)   You would never have seen such comments in any articles fromt# Compaq!  Times have surely changed.1  E Thing 4 - I am not sure why Capellas was so weak on VMS but I suspect2F that it was a combination of Ben Rosen's cronies sitting on the CompaqG board of directors, an attitude that supporting anything other than PCs,H would be "anti-Houston" and be attacking the heart of Compaq, and a veryF cosy (but costly) relationship with Microsoft.  Perhaps also Cappellas# just didn't know what VMS could do.e  H All of these factors have radically changed since the merger, with a newF HQ location, a new board, a more balanced attitude across the company,E and a new boss who can tell him (directly or indirectly) what to do. tA Carly seems to be calling the shots and I have to say that on the ? subject of VMS it really looks like she has far more balls than 
 Cappellas.    H VMS things have moved somewhat slower since the merger than I would haveD liked but the market is very tough out there ... just take a look atF Sun's share price and ask Andrew H.  I'm still quite positive that VMSG sales will pick up when the rest of the IT business starts to recover. 0F One thing I can see is that HP are trying a darn sight harder than ...* what was the name of that company again ??     cheers   John McLean9   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:56:55 GMT0" From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> Subject: Linker tip of the day& Message-ID: <3DAE6D3D.587E2B77@hp.com>  ? We have lately released two linker kits. VMS73_LINKER-V0300 andyG VMS731_LINKER-V0100. The kits increase the linker's internal I/O buffereE resulting in significant reduce in Link time. One of the people filed  tested the kit) reported it cut link time almost by half.t  , No changes are required in the link command.  	 Have Fun,r  	 Guy Peleg  OpenVMS Engineeringe   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:53:51 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>e Subject: Lurt tableu= Message-ID: <zpyr9.143945$O8.3525094@twister.tampabay.rr.com>a  D Where can I find the equivalent of the old License Usage Req. Table?  E I need to find out the license class of AS2100s vs ES40s vs ES45s andvG others.  IIRC, AS2100s were departmental class and ES40s were workgroup H class.  Now, itseems as if I have to pay an upgrade fee to move licenses3 from an AS2100 to an ES40 (which is a lower class).e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:28:15 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: Lurt table T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660AA2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,Y   Re: LURT Tables ..  ' This might be what you are looking for: B http://www.compaq.com/products/software/info/refmat/swl_alpha.HTMLH http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/4584/4584pro.html#intro_lurt_s ec  ' And also - for min VMS version support:u7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/supportchart.htmlt   Regardss    
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantM Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration ServicesE Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----+ From: John N. [mailto:JNixon@cfl.rr.com]=20r Sent: October 17, 2002 8:54 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Lurt table     D Where can I find the equivalent of the old License Usage Req. Table?  E I need to find out the license class of AS2100s vs ES40s vs ES45s andnG others.  IIRC, AS2100s were departmental class and ES40s were workgroupnH class.  Now, itseems as if I have to pay an upgrade fee to move licenses3 from an AS2100 to an ES40 (which is a lower class).o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:04:24 -0700a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>- Subject: RE: Lurt table 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEMKFOAA.tom@kednos.com>o  E http://www.compaq.com/products/software/info/refmat/swl_syschart.htmlt  C http://www5.compaq.com/products/software/info/refmat/swl_alpha.htmlu   >-----Original Message----- ) >From: John N. [mailto:JNixon@cfl.rr.com]s) >Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 5:54 AME >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Lurt table >i > E >Where can I find the equivalent of the old License Usage Req. Table?s >tF >I need to find out the license class of AS2100s vs ES40s vs ES45s andH >others.  IIRC, AS2100s were departmental class and ES40s were workgroupI >class.  Now, itseems as if I have to pay an upgrade fee to move licensest4 >from an AS2100 to an ES40 (which is a lower class). >  >u >t >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.g; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).uA >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002  >d ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:25:57 GMTi# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>o Subject: Re: Lurt table0= Message-ID: <VLzr9.144664$O8.3533814@twister.tampabay.rr.com>   > Thanks to both Tom and Kerry.  That is what I was looking for.  . "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message7 news:zpyr9.143945$O8.3525094@twister.tampabay.rr.com...dF > Where can I find the equivalent of the old License Usage Req. Table? >eG > I need to find out the license class of AS2100s vs ES40s vs ES45s andaI > others.  IIRC, AS2100s were departmental class and ES40s were workgroupcJ > class.  Now, itseems as if I have to pay an upgrade fee to move licenses5 > from an AS2100 to an ES40 (which is a lower class).t >! >e >g >D   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:30:57 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> $ Subject: Re: MAIL management utility' Message-ID: <3DAE6731.8A7C28BF@Free.fr>d  P NMAIL (Freeware Cd #4) is the only VMS mail tool that I know of, but is (or was)F VERY convenient. Maybe someone could enhance it with your suggestions.   D.   JF Mezei wrote:  > C > With the death of ALL-IN-1, I am looking at moving to VMSmail andtK > incorporating some of the features that made ALL-IN-1's email better than  > VMSmail, to the extent I can.n   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 06:59:34 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)S$ Subject: Re: MAIL management utility= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0210170559.51d37999@posting.google.com>.  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DAE4465.3300DEE5@videotron.ca>...  > L > One of those features is a batch janitor that runs at desired intervals toK > process all user's mailboxes. It not only empties wastebaskets, but also t  ? Email is personal, disk space is cheap - don't mess with it :-)g   H dir [.*mail]/grt  * Grand total of 5 directories, 57894 files.  ( PMDF is a good choice and is what I use.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:58:01 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye. Subject: Re: Mozilla doesn't like comp.os.vms?. Message-ID: <3DAECFF9.6070907@nospamn.sun.com>  @ I am using Netscape 7 on Solaris, it works fine with comp.os.vms@ as does Mozilla 1.0 on Solaris, Netscape 7 on XP and Mandrake so? it doesn't seem to be a Netscape issue that you are having. How< about your NNTPSERVER.   Regardse Andrew Harrisonc   David Mathog wrote:7A > I've been trying to read comp.os.vms through the mail/newsgrouprG > tool first in Netscape 7 and then in Mozilla 1.1 on RH 7.3 (Dual AMD r
 > system). > * > This has not been working out very well. > ; > Both of these browsers eventually have some fatal problems= > with this group.  The most common symptom is that they stop-6 > being able to download new messages from the server.I > The "fix" for that is to unsubscribe the group, exit the browser, startcF > it up again, and resuscribe.  The problem that's really grim is that4 > sometimes changing View->Messages or View->Sort_byC > hangs not only the browser, but the enter X11 server, so that thet= > only way out is to nuke the server with ctrl-alt-backspace.e > D > I've seen the "no download" glitch with other newsgroups, but onlyI > comp.os.vms has locked the system.  Probably because it is far and awayy. > the highest volume newsgroup I subscribe to. > 2 > Does mozilla have these problems on VMS as well? > G > Is there anything one can do to prevent them from happening (besides J! > moving to another news reader).n > 	 > Thanks,v >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 05:42:39 -0700+ From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)PA Subject: Re: Open-source replacement for Digital Standard Runoff?o= Message-ID: <bec993c8.0210170442.5ad81d3c@posting.google.com>f  h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<3klAlxcWoMf7@eisner.encompasserve.org>...m > In article <bec993c8.0210161114.732ff952@posting.google.com>, shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes:oF > > Is there an open-source functional equivalent for Digital Standard > > Runoff available?y > C >    Bonner labs runnoff used to show up on the SIG tapes.  IIRC it.G >    was a superset of DSR.  Lately I can't find it, but maybe you can.t  D I think I've got more different copies of Bonner Lab Runoff than any other person :-)  H Good point in that it does meet my stated requirements, and while I loveG Macro-11 code, the idea of going in and hacking up Bonner Lab Runoff torF make HTML or PDF output is more than I can stand right now.  I supposeK I could keep an -11 hooked up to my webserver to do on-the-fly conversions,gF or rig up Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator such that it could be run by a F CGI script, but that's more infrastructure support than I anticipated!  B I should've also specified that I'd like the solution to be easilyC automated to the point where it can be done by a CGI script :-).  IEF anticipate that I can do it with two or three pages of Perl, I'll give it a shot this weekend.s   Tim.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 07:50:05 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)oA Subject: Re: Open-source replacement for Digital Standard Runoff?e3 Message-ID: <LETYzsQ35sCy@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  ` In article <aokppm17pg@enews3.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:? > In alt.sys.pdp10 Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote: E >> Is there an open-source functional equivalent for Digital Standarda >> Runoff available? > G >> If not, I might just go ahead and knock one off - it looks like it'siH >> two or three pages of Perl to make a RNO to HTML or PDF converter :-) > J > Sounds like a good project for you!  I know I'd like to have access to a' > tool that converts RNO to HTML & PDF!m  D    There's already a tool on the 'net somehwere that converts RNO toE    RTF.  It doens't handle all RNO syntax, but we've used it and Words    to get to HTML.    J    Of course, it was a royal PITA to get Word to do what we really wanted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:42:28 -0500 ' From: "Earl Lakia" <elakia@hotmail.com>aA Subject: Re: Open-source replacement for Digital Standard Runoff?I6 Message-ID: <pqWdnQt8-cemUTOgXTWcow@News.GigaNews.Com>  ? IPACT sells a RunOff To word translator for a reasonable price. : We had to create it to convert a bunch of RunOff documents3 once and decided to see if we could recover some ofi5 the cost.  Anyway, take a look at the following link.   + http://www.ipact.com/ms_word_translator.htmo   -earlb  8 "Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message7 news:bec993c8.0210161114.732ff952@posting.google.com...tD > Is there an open-source functional equivalent for Digital Standard > Runoff available?E >uF > If not, I might just go ahead and knock one off - it looks like it'sG > two or three pages of Perl to make a RNO to HTML or PDF converter :-)S >  > Tim.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 09:09:37 -07005 From: Craig A. Berry <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> A Subject: Re: Open-source replacement for Digital Standard Runoff? 3 Message-ID: <20021017110937435-0500@brianor.local.>o  F In <bec993c8.0210161114.732ff952@posting.google.com> Tim Shoppa wrote:D > Is there an open-source functional equivalent for Digital Standard > Runoff available?  > F > If not, I might just go ahead and knock one off - it looks like it'sG > two or three pages of Perl to make a RNO to HTML or PDF converter :-)f  G The right way to do this (and I'm not volunteering) would be to target SA the converter for a suitable XML document type designed for book fF publishing, DocBook being the most obvious choice.  From there pretty F much any format you'd want (HTML, PDF, postscript, etc.) is available H via application of the appropriate XSLT stylesheet.  Most or all of the I stylesheets you'd want probably already exist, though if you want DSR as dL an output format (as well as input) you might have to create your own :-).  I If you use Perl, be sure to check out <http://search.cpan.org> to see if i> there are similar converters that could give you a head start.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:20:34 -0600 ) From: "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> W Subject: Re: OpenVMS7.2-1 and 7.3-1 and NFS (seeking SOME sort of file shareing) HELP!!n+ Message-ID: <aomdel0irm@enews2.newsguy.com>-  9 On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:46:42 +0000, Keith A. Lewis wrote:    > "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> writes in article <aok09n01o2g@enews3.newsguy.com> dated Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:23:48 -0600:N> >>%TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-E-MOUNTFAIL, error mounting _DNFS1:[000000]# >>-SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeouto > I > A timeout error might mean your NFS server processes aren't running.  IfM > think the relevant services are MOUNT, NFS, and PORTMAPPER.  Do a "ucx show I > serv" and see if they exist.  If not, use TCPIP$CONFIG to turn them on.u > L > Decnet phase IV is easier to set up IMHO.  But it's not standard IP, so ifM > there are routers between the 2 machines you have to make sure they supporty! > the right protocols for Decnet.w >  > --klewis$mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.    H Turns out all it was was it needed a patch.  Now on 5.3 ECO 1 and it ranJ like a champ on reboot =)  Now to mess with the other box....OpenVMS 7.2-1F TCPIP v 5.0a ....gonna patch and attempt to get it to go...if not I'll0 upgrade to 5.3 and patch and try...wish me luck!   Jamese   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 12:14:25 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>9 Subject: Re: PeopleSoft on VMS6 Message-ID: <20021017121425.17247.qmail@gacracker.org>  G On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:e   <snip>  G >Wow! I thought Ross threw in the VMS towel AGES ago! Then again, theirrG >prices were outlandish 16 years ago. They must absolutely astronomical F >by now (certainly not "affordable" to any but the Fortune 5, easily).  J No, Ross haven't thrown in the towel. You'd just be hard pressed to find aF Ross salesdroid that would recommend VMS (even if you had the existingK hardware and spare capacity to run the system). They have gone the same wayyJ of so many ISVs, their product was originally developed on and for VMS andD then they started supporting other platforms. Now VMS is no longer aJ critical platform. I can only guess why they've adopted this attitude, and4 I've seen it result in them migrating sites off VMS.  C If you want an indication of the attitude Ross has towards VMS, try G searching their website (http://www.rossinc.com) for mentions of VMS ora% OpenVMS (the latter returns nothing).u  E Regarding the current costs, The Ross ERP offering is a hell of a lot 0 cheaper than SAP, and takes less time to set up.     Doc. -- i6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:03:12 +1000a1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> 0 Subject: Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium, Message-ID: <3DAE7CD0.7020102@tg.nsw.gov.au>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: > d >>In article <3DADA894.7020504@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >> >>>JF Mezei wrote: >>>s >>>yP >>>>Wouldn't it perhaps be logical to have it as "4" since it would then presentN >>>>the opportunity for bits (if bit 0 is set, then vax, if bit 1 is set, then* >>>>alpha, if bit 2 is set than IA64 etc). >>>e >>>a >>>Why ? >>>m; >>>Bit-masks is usefull when you can set more than one bit.  >>>r >>>I doubt that apply here ! >>H >>   Your not planning to mung together a dual CPU system with one AlphaD >>   and one IPF processor?  You just have to hack the VMS kernel to3 >>   keep the backing stores separate for each CPU!s >>I >>   Somehow I don't think VMS engineering is gonna pull this one off for  >>   us as a midnight hack.. >  > * > No, but I'd tend to look at it this way: >  > Bit 0 = 32-bit CPU > Bit 1 = 64-bit CPU" > Bit 2 = Intel (or non-"DEC" CPU) > J > Thus, if ARCH_TYPE returned 1, then the VMS is running on a 32-bit "DEC"F > CPU (implies VAX) while if ARCH_TYPE returned 2, VMS is running on aI > 64-bit "DEC" CPU (implies APF - Alpha Processor Family). In both cases,y) > bit 2 is clear, indicating a "DEC" CPU.i > J > If ARCH_TYPE returned 6, one might assume that VMS was running on a IA64C > while if it returned 5, one might assume VMS was running on IA32.g > F > NAAAAHHHH... Stranger things have happened, but that's stretching it. > *WWWWAAAAYYYY* too far, even for a DJD post! >   C With VMS Engineering's avowed intention of not breaking code, this x probably can for me.  , I have a (at least one) .COM file which has:   $ VAX = f$getsyi("ARCH_TYPE")l  B and subsequently tests against $ if VAX then or $ if .not.VAX then  F usually, I do a f$getsyi("ARCH_NAME"), but I do have these exceptions.  L Regards, Paddy (and apologies for this rubbish that will get attached below)        G ***********************************************************************a  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegede> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advisegB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.e  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the m= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with nC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesr> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 08:17:21 -0700: From: craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry)/ Subject: Re: stuck process after v7.3-1 upgrade = Message-ID: <7f15589f.0210170717.6b3296f2@posting.google.com>'   Rob,   Thanks for the reply.o  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<xOsg6odA0N6j@eisner.encompasserve.org>...| > In article <7f15589f.0210152036.3ba33555@posting.google.com>, craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry) writes: >  > > D > > In addition to my DPW 500au, others report identical behavior onC > > AlphaServer 400 and AlphaServer 800; I don't think any of theseS3 > > systems is a candidate for the newest firmware.p > >  > & > 	The 7.3-1 Release Notes state that: > H > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/6652/6652pro_contents.html > Q > The minimum version of Alpha Systems Firmware tested with OpenVMS Alpha Version  > 7.3-1 is Version 6.1.   E Which is pretty meaningless because that number is the version of theaA firmware CD, not the firmware.  My 500au has SRM firmware v7.2-1,rB which is the latest (and last) firmware available for that system;E whether I update the firmware from the 5.9 CD, the 6.1 CD, or the 6.3tF CD, I'm never going to get firmware any newer than what I have. That'sD what I meant by "not a candidate for the newest firmware."  The factA that there are two different and unrelated numbering schemes bothiF referred to as "firmware version" is a long-standing pet peeve of mine3 and appears to have confused even you in this case.l  A > 	The noted exception is the 1000.  You may be simply looking atS > 	a firmware issue.  @ The v7.3-1 SPD says my system is supported and I have the latestE firmware available for my system.  So if it is a firmware issue, it'syC not something I can do anything about.  I originally mentioned that3B the problem was only known to occur on older systems in hopes thatE this information might help narrow it down. However, I've since heardl? off-list from someone who's reproduced it on a DS10, so generalr= differences between pre-EV6 and EV6 systems can be ruled out.e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 10:48:52 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o/ Subject: Re: stuck process after v7.3-1 upgrade.3 Message-ID: <PGlpL6Tw0Q48@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  z In article <7f15589f.0210170717.6b3296f2@posting.google.com>, craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry) writes: > Rob, >  > Thanks for the reply.f > h > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<xOsg6odA0N6j@eisner.encompasserve.org>...} >> In article <7f15589f.0210152036.3ba33555@posting.google.com>, craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry) writes:  >> t >> > lE >> > In addition to my DPW 500au, others report identical behavior oneD >> > AlphaServer 400 and AlphaServer 800; I don't think any of these4 >> > systems is a candidate for the newest firmware. >> > o >>  ' >> 	The 7.3-1 Release Notes state that:w >> MI >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/6652/6652pro_contents.htmla >>  R >> The minimum version of Alpha Systems Firmware tested with OpenVMS Alpha Version >> 7.3-1 is Version 6.1. e > G > Which is pretty meaningless because that number is the version of therC > firmware CD, not the firmware.  My 500au has SRM firmware v7.2-1,tD > which is the latest (and last) firmware available for that system;G > whether I update the firmware from the 5.9 CD, the 6.1 CD, or the 6.3 H > CD, I'm never going to get firmware any newer than what I have. That'sF > what I meant by "not a candidate for the newest firmware."  The factC > that there are two different and unrelated numbering schemes botheH > referred to as "firmware version" is a long-standing pet peeve of mine5 > and appears to have confused even you in this case.v >   8 	Yes... they should change the wording there.  I have an 	AlphaStation at 7.2-2.  t  B >> 	The noted exception is the 1000.  You may be simply looking at >> 	a firmware issue.  > B > The v7.3-1 SPD says my system is supported and I have the latestG > firmware available for my system.  So if it is a firmware issue, it's E > not something I can do anything about.  I originally mentioned thatoD > the problem was only known to occur on older systems in hopes thatG > this information might help narrow it down. However, I've since heard*A > off-list from someone who's reproduced it on a DS10, so generals? > differences between pre-EV6 and EV6 systems can be ruled out.n >f  A 	Maybe a 7.2-2 fixup didn't make it on to the CD for your system?d   	Also, from that link:  K http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/6652/6652pro_004.html#firmwalpha   V7.3-1 o  G During boot of the Alpha Station XP1000, SYSBOOT displays the followinga	 warning: b  O %SYSBOOT-W-FIRMREV, Firmware rev. 5.9 is below the recommended minimum of 6.2. iL Please update your firmware to the recommended revision, which can be found D on the firmware CD labeled:  Alpha AXP Systems Firmware Update 6.2.   J Please ignore this warning message. Firmware rev. 5.9 is the last releasedH firmware for this system. There is no rev. 6.2 firmware contained on the  Version 6.2 Firmware Update CD.    ---n  @ 	I have systems at rev 5.9 of the firmware, they are not XP1000s@ 	and so must be upgraded to a newer version of firmware prior to 	going to 7.3-1.  E 	All said... maybe it is a buggy driver.. maybe it is buggy firmware.t  	One wonders how a XP1000 fares.   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2002 14:47:36 GMT/ From: Thomas Themel <thomas.themel@cpointc.com>a) Subject: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problemeF Message-ID: <slrnaqtjc8.5v3.thomas.themel@firewall.office.cpointc.com>   Hi,t  G I'm currently in the process of setting up a PWS433au as an OpenVMS 7.2CC development server. So far, I've got basic OpenVMS, the developmenttE system and telnet running. FTP, however, has consistently resisted mya! efforts to get it up and running.o  D I did configure it via TCPIP$CONFIG, but it still does not start up.D What also made me suspicious is that for almost every other service,E there's a TCPIP$<service>_STARTUP.COM in SYS$MANAGER:, but there's no D TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP.COM (though I've seen one mentioned in an old post in this group).a   #v+a $ type tcpip$ftp_run.log
 $ Set NoOn/ $ VERIFY = F$VERIFY(F$TRNLNM("SYLOGIN_VERIFY"))m  B ******************************************************************    %                 FTP server started on G                 alpha.office.cpointc.com        17-OCT-2002 09:32:23.41d    B ******************************************************************    G %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violationm8 %TCPIP-E-FTP_BIND, cannot bind the address to the socket8   TCPIP$FTP    job terminated at 17-OCT-2002 09:32:23.45 #v-   ; For the clients, this means a "Connection refused" message.C (or, in OpenVMS terms,0 %TCPIP-E-FTP_NETERR, I/O error on network device4 -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected :))n  E As far as I understand, the FTP service should run in the context of 4@ a user named TCPIP$FTP. That user exists and has the privileges  NETMBX and TMPBMX set.  H If I start the FTP service in an interactive SYSTEM session[0], it works5 normally. I've also tried putting the startup line inrD SYSTARTUP_OPENVMS.COM, but that doesn't seem to start it either (andF I've got a bad feeling about running an FTP server as SYSTEM, anyway).  ) Any ideas on what I might be doing wrong?r  % [0] @SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]TCPIP$FTP_RUNl 	orr1     RUN /DETA SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]TCPIP$FTP_SERVER    ciao,d -- 4D [*Thomas  Themel*] The existence of the leader who is wise is barelyG [extended contact] known to those he leads. He acts without unnecessaryhD [info provided in] speech, so that the peole say "It happened of its4 [*message header*] accord" 	- from the Tao te Ching	   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 06:45:12 -0700% From: b.groves@mindspring.com (Brian)a2 Subject: Re: TCPIP,VMS 7.2.1 Alpha, license issue?= Message-ID: <f915e366.0210170545.7ed4c397@posting.google.com>9  C I will go through the check lists provided.  I now realize that NASrC 200 and UCX are redundant and could be clashing.  Additionally, theoE hardware lessor has now provided us with Temporary License Packs fromg, Compaq that should hold as we work this out.
 Thanks again,t Briann  r "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message news:<v33r9.32205$m92.6205090@news1.news.adelphia.net>... > Brian wrote: >   > Thanks up front.K >   > We've got a DEC 2100 Alpha with VMS 7.2.1 that we are trying to bring > >   > up.  Once up we need to FTP some files to a Windows box.? >   > We are getting an error when trying to FTP from that box.e1 >   > "...OPERATION REQUIRES SOFTWARE LICENSE...". >   >e$ >   > When we check licensing, I see >   > NET-APP-SUP-200r > % > How are you checking the licensing?  > > > Some times temporary license keys are installed on a system.H > If this system was a member of a cluster, then the license may need to% > be assigned to the specific system.y > H > The NET-APP-SUP-200 license key provides full TCP/IP functionality and > quite a few other products.B > 	 >   > UCXa > F > The UCX license key is redundant to the NET-APP-SUP-200 license key.A > Provided that they are not expired and are installed correctly.t >  >   > Any ideas? > I > The documentation for OpenVMS, would be of help to you, and also pleasehI > consult the OpenVMS FAQ section on trouble shooting license key issues.e > C > Both are available from links from http://www.openvms.compaq.com/0 >  > -Johni > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:18:31 -0000e- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)a Subject: Re: The Good CEO25 Message-ID: <92AA89A49warrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>   K mathog@caltech.edu (David Mathog) wrote in <aok18i$d8h$1@naig.caltech.edu>:h  @ >Here is an interesting little article describing "the Good CEO" >nB >http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/funds/stephenschurr/10047126.html >a& >A certain company's CEO is mentioned. > 	 >Regards,n >r  K Hmmm, didn't see honesty or integrity listed in the top 10 qualities CEO's o# should have.  Not much has changed.s   ws   -- y   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2002 23:14:25 -07002 From: johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se (Johan Nilsson)7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels-= Message-ID: <c3c6388a.0210162214.1cee2641@posting.google.com>   h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<7ccL4JESyBJQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>... > Johan Nilsson wrote: > > Hi,l > > F > > programming question: Is it possible to get the underlying VMS I/OI > > channel no from an UNIX style file descriptor? I'd like to be able topE > > use open() to get valid file descriptor, and then use QIO for I/Oe > > operations on these files. > E >    Are you only interested in the channel numbers for sockets?  ThenB >    socket number returned by Multinet's native interfaces is theF >    VMS channel (it even says so in the documentation).  UCX provides0 >    decc$get_sdc which returns the VMS channel.  Q No, sorry, I've found decc$get_sdc already. The problem is with 'ordinary' files.a   // Johan   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 03:10:58 -07002 From: johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se (Johan Nilsson)7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelsi< Message-ID: <c3c6388a.0210170210.381d53e@posting.google.com>  T Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message news:<3DADA7F1.5090604@vajhoej.dk>... >  > Many such exampels exist.9 >   B I've searched on the net and in the docs. If you could give me oneA pointer to a C program that uses sys$open to open a file and thennE sys$qio(..,IO$_READ/WRITEVBLK,...) to sequentially read/write from/toh; the file in blocks of variying length I'd be most grateful.h  C I've been trying to set fab$l_fop to FAB$V_UFO at sys$open - but iti< constantly fails (so I'm probably doing a very basic error).B Nevertheless I also don't know where in the call to sys$qio that I- should put in the offset of the reads/writes.h   Thanks // Johana   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:21:02 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>o7 Subject: RE: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelst: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDOEPHCAAA.dallen@nist.gov>  J 	The ACPQIO interface is not as scary as it might look at first glance.  = ItJ 	might be to your advantage to simply drop this thread and re-target to i= t.J 	I've only used it once but it didn't take more than a day to fight my wa= y J 	through an ACCESS function which was all I needed (a print symbiont if I=	  recall).nJ       The ACPQIO section in the VMS 5.4 doc set sitting next to me is onl=
 y 35 pages 	long!   	DAn   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Johan Nilsson [mailto:johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se]e* > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 6:11 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come9 > Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels  >o >8J > Arne Vajh=F8j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message news:<3DADA7F1.5090604= @vajhoej.dk>...r > >e > > Many such exampels exist.a > >n >iD > I've searched on the net and in the docs. If you could give me oneC > pointer to a C program that uses sys$open to open a file and thenTG > sys$qio(..,IO$_READ/WRITEVBLK,...) to sequentially read/write from/to = > the file in blocks of variying length I'd be most grateful.s >sE > I've been trying to set fab$l_fop to FAB$V_UFO at sys$open - but itp> > constantly fails (so I'm probably doing a very basic error).D > Nevertheless I also don't know where in the call to sys$qio that I/ > should put in the offset of the reads/writes.t >d > Thanks // Johano   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:46:23 GMT 9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>u7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channelsd/ Message-ID: <3DAECCBA.7EBBBDA7@eps.zko.dec.com>    Johan Nilsson wrote:  V > Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message news:<3DADA7F1.5090604@vajhoej.dk>... > >  > > Many such exampels exist.v  1 The RMS reference manual contain some C examples.    > D > I've searched on the net and in the docs. If you could give me oneC > pointer to a C program that uses sys$open to open a file and thenSG > sys$qio(..,IO$_READ/WRITEVBLK,...) to sequentially read/write from/to0= > the file in blocks of variying length I'd be most grateful.   B Here is a pointer to a program which contains much of the above...  K  http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/rms_tools/src/make_dir.c   5 The RMS_STATS.C program there uses an ASSIGN and QIO.   E > I've been trying to set fab$l_fop to FAB$V_UFO at sys$open - but itr> > constantly fails (so I'm probably doing a very basic error).  K Yeah, you probably us a bit number where a mask was expected or visa versa.i  P What I fail to understand though is how folks can make statements like the aboveO and then do not bother to toss in an exact error message/code and/or a fractioneT of the code involved? It's like 'my brother is sick'. Well. ok, we are sorry to hear that.     D > Nevertheless I also don't know where in the call to sys$qio that I/ > should put in the offset of the reads/writes.i   P3.mT After checking the sytem services manaual, check the drivers/programming  manual forM the device in question. (sorry, I did not follow the rest of the discussion).e  
 Good luck, Hein.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:33:34 +0200I5 From: "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de>S7 Subject: Re: Unix file descriptors and VMS I/O channels-. Message-ID: <E182CeU-0005BA-00@mailer.gwdg.de>   Johan Nilsson writes:,   >[...]D > I've searched on the net and in the docs. If you could give me oneC > pointer to a C program that uses sys$open to open a file and thenYG > sys$qio(..,IO$_READ/WRITEVBLK,...) to sequentially read/write from/to/= > the file in blocks of variying length I'd be most grateful.t > E > I've been trying to set fab$l_fop to FAB$V_UFO at sys$open - but it > > constantly fails (so I'm probably doing a very basic error).  E Setting FAB$L_FOP to FAB$M_UFO ( = 2 ** FAB$V_UFO ) will likely help.C  D > Nevertheless I also don't know where in the call to sys$qio that I/ > should put in the offset of the reads/writes.   D P1 = buffer , P2 = #bytes , P3 = block number (1 block = 512 bytes).  E As far as I know, $OPEN (ufo) ... $QIO (readvblk) ... $DASSGN is all r you need for *reading* a file. 2  > *Writing* is more tricky since you usually have to explicitly < extend the file via IO$_MODIFY ACP-QIO operations, and also ? record its final size (and stuff) via an explicit IO$_DEACCESS.v  F After all, you might wish to look into asynchronous RMS operations ...F (I have an OLD example at ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/remprtsmb_012.* ).  M Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510, moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de-M GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim intended!eM http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>J   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:24:28 +0200r2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channelMG Message-ID: <3daeb9f8$0$28150$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>,  9 "David M Smith" <dsmit115@csc.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrage2 news:ohcrqu844gtin7k6egb284a859p6occfl6@4ax.com...F > On 16 Oct 2002 12:27:47 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: > D > > I see 7.3-1 as probably the most stable rev to come out in quiteA > > some time.  The number of ECOs for 7.3-1 is surprisingly low.  >eF > Of course, it's only been generally available for a few weeks!   ;<)K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------rK > David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com K > Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)mK > -------------------------------------------------------------------------i  " Been there, tested it, dropped it.K Going to 7.3 instead because of my problem with not being able to address aa; printer connected via IP with "OPEN-WRITE-CLOSE" (RMS-bug).f   Ren   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:39:01 GMTr/ From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>y= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 breaks clustering using memory channelc8 Message-ID: <FIBr9.18131$2s.814092@twister.maine.rr.com>  = "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> wrote in messagedA news:3daeb9f8$0$28150$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...a$ > Been there, tested it, dropped it.K > Going to 7.3 instead because of my problem with not being able to address  as= > printer connected via IP with "OPEN-WRITE-CLOSE" (RMS-bug).e >s > Ren  K A fix for this is available.  I contacted HP and almost immediately got the- patch (RMS_CLD_3973_731_V2.A).   -Jeff0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:29:21 +0200:- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>6! Subject: VMS training in France ?e' Message-ID: <3DAE66D1.9591FE41@Free.fr>a  C I went to the www.openvms.compaq.com site to look for VMS training.n  ? I found four firms providing training in the States and Canada.t  2 I found a link to the international training page.  > There, I found a link to the French HP training services page:C http://brahpe01.bradirht.external.hp.com/HPEduFR/default.asp?m=home-  + I did a search on VMS and OpenVMS training:-  , "recherche pour vms : 0 rsultats retourns"0 "recherche pour openvms : 0 rsultats retourns"  J Maybe a link to GlobalKnowledge France (who provide five courses: CS-10133I CS-10134 CS-10135 CS-10136 and CS-937A but no more TCP/IP, why?) could be  interesting to add?f  j http://www.globalknowledge.net/training/select.asp?search=vms&pageID=914&country=France&translation=French    a D. -- s2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 07:55:06 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)pD Subject: Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!)3 Message-ID: <+9Rztss0RTkr@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  \ In article <3DADE20E.5A8FAC18@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:D >>    I always thought separating the code base was the one big dumbF >>    thing DEC did during the port.  I'm sure glad Compaq/HP is using& >>    one code base for Alpha and IPF. >  > Question:n > 1 > Will they have same code base for drivers too ?l  E    The interrupt handling built into the kernel may be different, butsH    I don't see a need to make major changes in that at the driver level.  G    I could see changes in the interface to memory management functions  E    that might affect drivers, but maybe they can be hidden inside the     documented kernel functions.e  G    I'm still waiting to see the Macro-32 compiler.  IMHO that's got to  A    be a much more an interesting act on IPF than it was on Alpha.c   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 07:59:07 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)eD Subject: Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!)3 Message-ID: <kb4F+1P4Qsna@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  c In article <JRaCkdQdq8L$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:oe > In article <fzRh3$tJPkXv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:t > D >>    I always thought separating the code base was the one big dumbF >>    thing DEC did during the port.  I'm sure glad Compaq/HP is using& >>    one code base for Alpha and IPF. > H > Alpha was different, because that required a jump to a 64-bit machine.      Yes, and that requires:  +    1) a major overhaul of memory management.#    2) addition of 64-bit interfacest  @    But how much did it change, for example, the parts of the jobD    controller that creates a process running loginout in response to.    an unsolicitied interrupt on a the console?  D    If got lots of code that runs on 32 and 64 bit platforms and I'veG    never separated the source.  Every time you make a copy of somethingnD    you double the maintenance effort.  That in part explains why newC    features show up on Alpha and not on VAX even though they're note-    particularly in need of a 64 bit computer.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:46:45 GMTe5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>nD Subject: Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!)1 Message-ID: <9bzr9.15$uZ2.85076@news.cpqcorp.net>r  I I would say that the releases on IPF are less of a "subset" as caution onaK our part to get things tested and qualified.  Not everything will be porteddF and tested in the very, very earliest "SDK" releases.  By the time theL version numbers synch, everything will have been fully tested and qualified.  H The next Alpha release will *be* from the common source pool.  It is not from a seperate pool.r  G Bob Koehler wrote in message <9t4rU+9FbFbF@eisner.encompasserve.org>...s6 >In article <3DADCD34.9F058340@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >nK >> While I understand (but disagree) with VAX not always catching up, sincep AlphapL >> and IA64 are supposed to be sharing code bases (is that still true ?) why notDE >> release V8.0 on Alpha ? Wouldn't that be a good test of the shareda
 code-basesB >> ? (folks going to an *.0 release know to expect a few hitches). > D >  Who would want a "new release" on Alpha with some of the featuresD >  missing?  8.0 on IPF is a subset of 7.3 (or so) on Alpha.  8.1 is7 >  a larger subset.  8.2 ships for VAX, Alpha, and IPF.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:52:29 GMT,5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> D Subject: Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!)2 Message-ID: <xgzr9.16$eb3.272487@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3DADE20E.5A8FAC18@videotron.ca>...m >Bob Koehler wrote:-D >>    I always thought separating the code base was the one big dumbF >>    thing DEC did during the port.  I'm sure glad Compaq/HP is using& >>    one code base for Alpha and IPF. >r
 >Question: >e0 >Will they have same code base for drivers too ?   Yes.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:31:14 GMTn5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>oD Subject: Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!)2 Message-ID: <SQzr9.22$xa3.260261@news.cpqcorp.net>  G Bob Koehler wrote in message <+9Rztss0RTkr@eisner.encompasserve.org>...d6 >In article <3DADE20E.5A8FAC18@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote:sE >>>    I always thought separating the code base was the one big dumb-G >>>    thing DEC did during the port.  I'm sure glad Compaq/HP is usingi' >>>    one code base for Alpha and IPF.m >> >> Question: >>2 >> Will they have same code base for drivers too ? >gF >   The interrupt handling built into the kernel may be different, butI >   I don't see a need to make major changes in that at the driver level.  >c  G Interrupt handling vary's from Alpha platform to platform as well.  The I driver is (except in a few really extreme cases) immune to the knowledge.e  G >   I could see changes in the interface to memory management functions F >   that might affect drivers, but maybe they can be hidden inside the  >   documented kernel functions. >s  K If your driver knows about PTE formats, for example, you might need to makee1 a change.  But that is, IMHO something very rare.s  J The one area that eventually will be added to is how DMA is setup.  VMS isJ pretty weak here compared to UNIX or NT.  We give you direct access to theL mechanisms to do "direct" DMA or to mapped IO.  But, on a non-HP IPF system,L you could find yourself with a system with no map registers, but more memoryD than can be addressed by a 32-bit device.  Which will require you toI potentially do buffer copies.  The HP systems have map registers, so this2 will not be a problem on them.  H Most UNIXes (and Linux) as well as NT have a method that can effectivelyL hide this from the driver.  The call to setup the IO can determine if directI can be used, map registers can be used, or if the IO needs to be buffered  and copied.   I VMS will likely add a similar interface that drivers will be able to use,tK instead of the explicit knowledge that they must carry.  The old interfacesoF will also remain for drivers that use them.  It won't be IPF specific,K although the Alpha version will probably never do buffer copies because all ! Alpha systems have map registers.S  J When 32-bit devices go away in the not-too-distant-future, this won't mean much to anyone.   G >   I'm still waiting to see the Macro-32 compiler.  IMHO that's got tooB >   be a much more an interesting act on IPF than it was on Alpha. >v  I Actually, you shouldn't have to do much of anything.  The iMacro compilerwH writer will tell you it's pretty complex to do, but that's *his* problemG (John ;-).  The existing Macro-32 code should not need many changes (ifnK any), and nothing like the Alpha changes that were needed from VAX sources.SJ We are currently compiling Macro-32 for IPF, and have debugged things like3 $FAO in the bootpath, which is written in Macro-32.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:46:06 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>p, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!D Message-ID: <yFvr9.5434$Q3S.39@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messages$ news:3DAE12A1.80001@tsoft-inc.com... > Main, Kerry wrote: > 	 > > Bill,e > >S > > Re: release numbers .. > > K > > If I recall, VMS V7.0 was supported, but not recommended for productionrL > > environments. It was the first 64bit release and again, if memory servesL > > me right, the official recommendation for production use was "wait until
 > > V7.1". >eF > And while being good advice, as many found out to their sorrow, even better/ > advice would have been to wait for V7.2.  :-)V >tL > I for one wouldn't bet much of real value on using V8.2 on intel hardware.    @ So we're talking late 2005-early 2006 before the first the firstG production-viable version appears on IA-64. Add another year or two forlG conservative organizations to begin adopting IA-64, and we have Alpha'stL being produced until 2008. Might as well put EV8 in them. And if you have an= Alpha with EV8 inside, why would anyone want an IA-64 system?n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:42:56 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> , Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!2 Message-ID: <A7zr9.14$Bc3.295055@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3DAE15FC.A669CF50@videotron.ca>...- >Robert Deininger wrote:H >> AFAIK, the 8.2 release is the target for the first "real" VMS on IPF. >.J >I don't care about VMS on IA64. I care about VMS on Alpha and VAX because that. >is what people will be using for a long time. > L >Is 8.2 the first release on Alpha that will have common code base with IA64 ?8K >Or does 7.3-1 already have code in there that is full of #ifdef statements> to >isolate alpha from ia64 code ?l > J >Who is going to debug the alpha version of the common code base ???? That isI >why I think that skipping alpha versions of 8.0 and 8.1 may be dangerous  ande) >8.2 will be a version to avoid on Alpha.s  I V7.3-1 has very few (if-any) IA64 changes.  The decision was made to makelD the IA64 changes in the stream that follows that release, the sourceA libraries are the *same* between Alpha and IPF.  Most changes arekH conditionals.  In some cases there are IPF-specific modules.  Code beingJ changed is being built and tested at least weekly on Alpha.  Alpha code isJ being updated, improved, and tested - sometimes to make it better for IPF,J sometimes just to make it better period.  The VAST majority of actual codeL changes are to fix VAX versus ALPHA conditionals - mostly to "NOT VAX" testsI (since the vast majority of Alpha and IPF code will be *identical*) - theiK generated Alpha code for *most* things will not be any different than it is 
 on V7.3-1.  J Customers have often been wary of *.0 releases, because it means major newL functionality.  Feel free to wait until V8.1, or even V8.2 if you are overlyL cautious.  In reality, the risk on Alpha for V8.0 is minimal IMHO.  That is,> I would have been comfortable calling it V7.4 instead of V8.0.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2002 08:53:25 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m, Subject: Re: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!3 Message-ID: <UEnCQHe0DxMw@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  j In article <yFvr9.5434$Q3S.39@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >    > B > So we're talking late 2005-early 2006 before the first the firstI > production-viable version appears on IA-64. Add another year or two for*I > conservative organizations to begin adopting IA-64, and we have Alpha'smN > being produced until 2008. Might as well put EV8 in them. And if you have an? > Alpha with EV8 inside, why would anyone want an IA-64 system?p >      	Why?e  ) http://news.com.com/2100-1001-962312.htmlh  H Multicore chips are becoming a reality because by 2007 chips will have aL billion transistors, and you have to do something with all those wires, said5 John Crawford, a Fellow in Intel's Enterprise Group. d  O Using 1 billion transistors, Intel could put four separate Itanium cores onto asL chip, Crawford said. These cores would then share a common cache, similar to IBM's Power4 on sale today.   N A mega-chip of this sort could benefit computer designers in a number of ways.I A four-processor server would be far easier to construct because it wouldsN require far fewer chips. Applications could also jump from one core to anotherJ to avoid building up "hot spots," Crawford added. Intel has discussed such% core-hopping technology in the past. 0  O "We are spreading out hot spots across the die into four areas," Crawford said.oK He didn't say Intel would actually make an Itanium with four brains, but he.O said that it was "eminently doable." Other Intel executives have said multicoreY chips are inevitable.    ---s  C 	Granted, there is a great deal of indirection in those statements.3D 	But one has to imagine with very large budgets and the former AlphaA 	team, they are putting something together that will do nicely ino8 	a billion transistors.  Multi-cored and multi-threaded.   				Robe   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.574 ************************