1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 19 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 577       Contents:2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines Re: a couple of things Re: a couple of things Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader? P Re: Attn: TCPIP engineering (was Infinite loop bug in TCPIP 5.3 NFS   client witP Re: Attn: TCPIP engineering (was Infinite loop bug in TCPIP 5.3 NFS client with P Re: Attn: TCPIP engineering (was Infinite loop bug in TCPIP 5.3 NFS client with  Re: Barcode labels* Re: Booting a VMS cluster node using BOOTP Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP  Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP  Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP  Re: Dell retakes #1 PC spot  Re: Dell retakes #1 PC spot  Re: Hobbyist kit Contents , installing the Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Java! Re: Is anyone using this product?  java on VMS - help requested  Re: java on VMS - help requested Re: legato for Openvms Re: Life after VMS?  Re: Linker tip of the day  Re: MAIL management utility  MIT and OpenVMS ----> PDF  Re: MIT and OpenVMS ----> PDF & MSL5026DLX Library Performance Problem Re: Multia help needed% OT: Oracle's take on Microsoft's .NET ' Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium ) Re: Tape Copy? (Or TapeCopy, the program) $ Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problem$ Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problem$ Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problem) Re: TCPIP,VMS 7.2.1 Alpha, license issue? + TCPIP/UCX IP Address Filtering for Services / Re: TCPIP/UCX IP Address Filtering for Services  Re: TLZ09 on Alpha?  Re: TLZ09 on Alpha?  Re: TLZ09 on Alpha? ( Re: Undocumented GETSYI item MAIN_MOMORY( Re: Undocumented GETSYI item MAIN_MOMORY6 Re: VAX Clones (was:  RE:  How to purchase Charon VAX). RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 19 Oct 02 07:57:35 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines ) Message-ID: <sUfuXIKyoeo2@elias.decus.ch>   K In article <3DAD7BCE.6AB8901A@hp.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> writes: / > Okay, just to prove that we are listening....  > K > Please file a service call with your local support center and ask to port Q > RECALL/ALL and RECALL/SEARCH to VAX. The support center should escelate this to  > Engineering and ask ' > the case to be assigned to Guy Peleg.  >   C But meanwhile, I have a solution which gives similar functionality, . working since I fathomed out the PIPE command.   $ sh sym recH   REC == "pipe recall/all > sys$login:recall.out ; @sys$login:searchbuf" $ ty sys$login:searchbuf.com $! sys$login:searchbuf.com $! ----------------------- $!8 $ if f$search("sys$login:recall.out") .eqs. "" then exit, $ search/match=and sys$login:recall.out 'p1'% $ delete/nolog sys$login:recall.out;*    Examples in action:   	 $ dir xyz ! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found  $ rec login    2 ty sys$login:searchbuf.com $ rec "sys$,com"   2 ty sys$login:searchbuf.com  D Interestingly, my REC command never makes it into the recall buffer, since it starts with RECALL.   F Whilst I'm at it, I'll comment that it is annoying that RECALL doesn'tN go into the recall buffer. I can see the reasoning of that when it was limitedK to the last 20 commands, but as someone who works with at least 4 different H keyboard layouts on a regular basis, hence makes tzpos (intentional), it
 is a pain. --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:06:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: a couple of things , Message-ID: <3DB05BD1.221359CC@videotron.ca>   Our beloved Sue said:   K > >In Mark's session I was sitting next to an HP person who had never heard 7 > about VMS and she said she could not wait to sell it.   F Sue, you misunderstood it... the person didn't mean to say "sell it toM customers", she really meant "we can't wait to sell the product to some other - company so that we can finally be rid of it"     :-) ;-) :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:44:12 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: a couple of things & Message-ID: <3DB0B8EC.E8944A4@fsi.net>   Ken Robinson wrote:  > @ > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in > news:3db04693$1@news.si.com: > F > >>In Mark's session I was sitting next to an HP person who had never	 > >>heard 	 > > about 3 > >>VMS and she said she could not wait to sell it.  > > F > > Oops.  There's the next HP person to lose her job, if she tries to > > sell it to a new client. > I > Until proven otherwise by current and future events, let's take this as B > "good news" instead of immediately trashing it as "it will never
 > happen". > I > Quite a few of us who were at the conference could sense that there was E > something different this year. I think it is the feeling that HP is I > genuinely interested in VMS as a product, not as something to be tossed  > away.   F Well, I will say this: The feelings may be good on some fronts, but ifD indeed we are looking at the beginning of a new renaissance, there'sA still a *LOT* of re-educating to do at many levels before OpenVMS F acquires the entreprenuerial spirit that it needs to lift itself up by( its bootstraps and get back on its feet.  H Then again, with both legs cut off - the Alphacide being one leg cut off: at the knee and the lack of a currently shippable-in-bulk,C ready-for-prime-time IPF being the other leg cut off at the knee, I H guess to have OpenVMS hobble along on its stumps is the best we can hopeD for until some suitable prostheses (or a rocket-powered wheel chair)
 come along...   F Yeah, *ANY* enthusiasm is to be welcomed warmly and with much fanfare.E However, let us not be lulled into false security by our own naivete.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:36:01 +0200 " From: DTL <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> Subject: Acrobat Reader?4 Message-ID: <newscache$14x64h$f19$1@news.tiscali.fr>  G Er... I do not find VMS in the list of platforms for the Adobe Acrobat   Reader utility...    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:06:14 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?, Message-ID: <3DB069B1.9DB7B03C@videotron.ca>  
 DTL wrote: > H > Er... I do not find VMS in the list of platforms for the Adobe Acrobat > Reader utility...     I I agree. I think that HP should definitely pressure Adobe into making the I acrobat reader for VMS (vax and alpha). This is a serious hole in the VMS D software, especially considering that more and more documentation is distributed as PDF files.   H Just look at the VMS documentation web site. Instead of supplying usable( bookreader files, they supply PDF files.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:10:41 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?8 Message-ID: <phq0ru0k3pf5dv8no44iok3rodp628huac@4ax.com>  @ On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:36:01 +0200, DTL <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:  H >Er... I do not find VMS in the list of platforms for the Adobe Acrobat  >Reader utility... >  >D.   E Well, there is a Java version (I've never used it) which, presumably, E can be made to work on newer versions of OpenVMS Alpha. Check the web  page at:  6 	http://www.adobe.com/products/acrviewer/acrvdnld.html  E and scan down to Acrobat Viewer for other Java-enabled Platforms. Has  anyone tried this out?I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:36:56 +0200 " From: DTL <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?. Message-ID: <aoprho$5as$1@news2adm.tiscali.fr>   JF Mezei wrote:    > J > Just look at the VMS documentation web site. Instead of supplying usable* > bookreader files, they supply PDF files.  I Course. all HPQ employees and Customers have a PC on their table today...    D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:54:45 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?0 Message-ID: <00A15A4F.876FAB1B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3DB069B1.9DB7B03C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >DTL wrote:  >>  I >> Er... I do not find VMS in the list of platforms for the Adobe Acrobat  >> Reader utility... >  > J >I agree. I think that HP should definitely pressure Adobe into making theJ >acrobat reader for VMS (vax and alpha). This is a serious hole in the VMSE >software, especially considering that more and more documentation is  >distributed as PDF files. > I >Just look at the VMS documentation web site. Instead of supplying usable ) >bookreader files, they supply PDF files.   8 usable bookreader files!  Please don't get me started...  ) It would be so nice to bring them back...  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 16:08:26 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?3 Message-ID: <pcUNhcxcnaAw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <newscache$14x64h$f19$1@news.tiscali.fr>, DTL <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes: I > Er... I do not find VMS in the list of platforms for the Adobe Acrobat   > Reader utility...   @ Correct.  There was a supported product for VMS for a while, butB the (small) vendor dropped it, presumably due to lack of interest.C (I believe they had to make royalty payments independent of sales.)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:11:01 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?3 Message-ID: <FN_r9.66727$N_6.982293@news.chello.at>   Y In article <newscache$14x64h$f19$1@news.tiscali.fr>, DTL <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes: H >Er... I do not find VMS in the list of platforms for the Adobe Acrobat  >Reader utility...  % Nor do I. But why are you surprised ? 7 Did anyone see DEC/CPQ/HP forcing ISVs to promote VMS ?   G It would be a good thing to get ACREADER for OpenVMS, (and FLASHPLAYER, H NETSCAPE, OPENOFFICE, OPERA, QUICKTIME, REALPLAYER, SHOCKWAVE and so on)D but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon. And if we'll see it, the nextF question will be how to get it as a plugin for MOZILLA/NETSCAPE/OPERA.  J OTOH reading PDF on VMS is already possible with XPDF, GV/GS and ACRVIEWERF (and LAOLA) so it is no showstopper to get documentations only in PDF.  , What did you want to say with your posting ?   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:46:16 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?' Message-ID: <3DB08128.31E34115@Free.fr>    Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > . > What did you want to say with your posting ?   "Pffoey" "what did you say? Pffoey?"  "Just what I said: Pffoey"( ((c) Snoopy and Charlie Brown, 1969 (?)   I I said that I have rebooted my Alpha station, after three days of Winsh*t I working to repair a friend's PC eaten by a lurking BugBear virus; It's an  antidote to stress, you see.  P And I'm surfing the Internet with MOZ 1.1b, and when I see something interestingI I click on it and when it's a Word doc, I forget it (will read it from my P beloved Mac), when its pdf I wonder where I could get the reader, and I discoverL that there is no and I slowly understand that we are fighting a lost battle.   :-(   & 23:45 here. time to sleep a bit.  Bye.   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 17:48:12 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?3 Message-ID: <mPHmQllENUtO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <FN_r9.66727$N_6.982293@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:  L > OTOH reading PDF on VMS is already possible with XPDF, GV/GS and ACRVIEWERH > (and LAOLA) so it is no showstopper to get documentations only in PDF.  % Some of us prefer supported products.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:26:24 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?3 Message-ID: <AM0s9.68664$N_6.999757@news.chello.at>   c In article <mPHmQllENUtO@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: e >In article <FN_r9.66727$N_6.982293@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:  > M >> OTOH reading PDF on VMS is already possible with XPDF, GV/GS and ACRVIEWER I >> (and LAOLA) so it is no showstopper to get documentations only in PDF.  > & >Some of us prefer supported products.  ; And you get support from this vendors for the PC platform ?    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:51:01 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?, Message-ID: <3DB09E54.561210EF@videotron.ca>  L It isn't the fact that one could possibly get some PDF reader to work. It isN that a PDF reader should be included by default, just like all the X utilities that come with DECwindows.  N Similarly, there should be a default compression software available to all VMSD web sites to help with distribution over the net. (ZIp or whatever).   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:22:47 GMT > From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <Firstname.Lastname@YouKnow.Where>Y Subject: Re: Attn: TCPIP engineering (was Infinite loop bug in TCPIP 5.3 NFS   client wit - Message-ID: <3DB0424D.415349EE@YouKnow.Where>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Alan Greig wrote: E > > Makes me worry what other blatant bugs might be lurking in there.   > 	BLATANT (adj) 1. Unpleasantly loud and noisy.  2. Offensively' 	conspicuous; obvious: "a blatant lie."   > 	I assume it's not definition 1.  If the problem were obvious,, 	it would have been FIXED BEFORE FIELD TEST.   > > > That is what you get when you port software from another OS.  8 	Hate to bust your bubble, but this code is VMS-specific: 	and was originally purchased from Bob Ceculski's favorite< 	TCP/IP (on VMS) vendor.  The problem here is something that? 	does not happen frequently, but does appear to be reproducible < 	with the same directory.  It is NEW code that was added for 	ODS-5 support.    > P > Does anyone know if there is a long term strategy for the TCPIP product on VMSO > ? Do they plan to keep it "lowest common denominator" to make it easy to port O > the new versions of Unix based TCPIP software to VMS, or do they plan to make J > the TCPIP Services software evolve its own independant track to increase% > quality, robustness and "VMSness" ?   H 	I don't fully understand this question.  I can say that we are planningD 	to stay with this core network kernel, bringing in other components8 	from the best possible source (including a VMS-specific implementation).  D 	The core kernel deals specifically with the network protocols. DataB 	structures which are used internally (ONLY) within the kernel areD 	Unix-based, many with VMS extensions.  For example, the descriptorsE 	for the fragmentation, routing, socket mapping blocks are Unix-only.   E 	Outside of the kernel there may be VMS-only structures (the internal  VCI ? 	for TNDRIVER, PWIPDRIVER, and the new INETDRIVER for example).   G 	Other structures have both a VMS-part and Unix-part.  For example, the  mbufs H 	(which the core code uses mbuf structures for) also has a VCRP with it.G 	Data is stored in large, VMS buffers described by VCRPs, with the mbuf  fieldsD 	used to queue the data and provide the core code with the fields it expects.  9 	At this moment time is being spent in three major areas:   ; 		1) Corrections from the V5.3 release (field test does not A 		   reveal all bugs).  At the moment the number of open problems  		   has been declining. 		    B 		2) The port to IA-64, since some basic functionality from TCP/IPA 		   is required as soon as OpenVMS becomes bootable, the rest of ? 		   the product shortly afterwards.  We are doing very well in  		   this area.   @ 		3) Performance work in the network kernel (specifically in theA 		   VMS-specific code), and performance in the NFS server.  Some > 		   of the NFS work is so positive that we will be folding it  		   into a future ECO for V5.3.   > N > having a more "VMS" TCPIP stack might improve quality and robustness quite aU > bit, but it might delay introduction of new features that arrive on Unix platforms.   A 	It is true that this would delay new features.  There is no plan E 	to rewrite the core network kernel to be pure VMS.  As I said, there H 	is performance work in the network kernel (the outer VMS-specifics thatG 	deal with the drivers, memory, multiple processors and the QIO layer), ? 	as well as NFS.  This can only reflect positively on the apps.   D 	As far as quality is concerned, it continues to improve.  This case hereF 	with ODS-5 is connected to an interaction with a new operating systemE 	feature.  Given that NFS probably exercises ODS-5 more than anything G 	else out there means that if there are problems either with ODS-5, the < 	interface or an implementation, it's bound to show up here.  H 	New features (for the most part) appear on Unix systems.  It only makesH 	sense to pull that code for a port.  Unless of course someone has a VMSF 	source for new technology, which I don't think anyone would find.  ToG 	develop everything in-house from scratch is not feasible.  How many of ? 	you buy your apps from a third party instead of doing the work 	 yourself?    	-John   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:54:22 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> Y Subject: Re: Attn: TCPIP engineering (was Infinite loop bug in TCPIP 5.3 NFS client with  ' Message-ID: <3DB0830E.2BECE06C@Free.fr>    "John Gemignani, Jr." wrote: ../.. B >         At this moment time is being spent in three major areas: > K >                 1) Corrections from the V5.3 release (field test does not & >                    reveal all bugs).  L What you are not saying, John, is that when DECnet Phase IV was produced, weK were around ten thousand of VMS users field testing it internally worldwide O before it was released as a beta version for external field testing (if it ever I was). And 10'000 users testing a product for a couple of months gives the * quality that VMS engineering used to have.  / Today, how many VMS boxes up and running at HP?    D.  J PS: have the folks who invented DECnet-Plus been fired already or not yet?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:18:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> Y Subject: Re: Attn: TCPIP engineering (was Infinite loop bug in TCPIP 5.3 NFS client with  , Message-ID: <3DB096BD.85F725C5@videotron.ca>   > "John Gemignani, Jr." wrote:M > >                 1) Corrections from the V5.3 release (field test does not ( > >                    reveal all bugs).  M It didn't take me very long to discover that 5.3 on VAX will crash the system # the second you enable a SLIP line.    H If you made the media available easily, you'd have a whole bunch of keen2 hobbyists willing to help you debug your products.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 13:46:07 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips)  Subject: Re: Barcode labels = Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0210181246.25e8becd@posting.google.com>   d Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in message news:<200210180627.IAA08894@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>... > Hello, > ? > is there any way to get the Barcode label info under OpenVMS? ? > Background: If it would be possible, I could produce a backup A > listing with a filename containing the Barcode label code, e.g.  > POG524_backup.lis. >   > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert  4 Are you maybe asking about the Serial Number that is5 barcoded on the label attached to the system box? If  ' so, it isn't software available, AFAIK.     DL Phillips   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:22:59 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 3 Subject: Re: Booting a VMS cluster node using BOOTP ' Message-ID: <3DB0B3F2.34242D20@fsi.net>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > [snip]J > VMS knows how to service MOP requests and send the image back using MOP.F > VMS will be taught to service PXE requests as well (requires TCPIP).  G Will this be limited to UCX (TCPIP Services) or stack-neutral (TCPware, 
 Multinet)?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 12:20:40 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) " Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0210181120.5e471ee3@posting.google.com>   s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0210171722.53f859f6@posting.google.com>... l > whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) wrote in message news:<af0dc2ea.0210170727.4d03db0b@posting.google.com>... > > > 7 > > > $ BACKUP DISK1:[BLAH],DISK2:[BLAH],DISK3:[BLAH] - " > > >   MKA0:SAVE-SET-NAME.BCK !.  > > E > > Ouch! This should not be one save_set! There is no way to easily  I > > restore these files. This should be three backups to three save_sets.  > G > But VMS BACKUP allows users to do this, and in some cases it may well G > be an okay thing to do. Maybe the user is transferring the files to a D > much bigger disk on a remote system. It would make sense for that. > E > But that doesn't really matter, because the fact that it is allowed 3 > means that it cannot be ignored as a possibility.  > 7 > > >     $ BACKUP SEARCH_LIST: MKA0:SAVE-SET-NAME.BCK   > > > J > > > where SEARCH_LIST is a logical name search list. Then there's no wayA > > > during the restore to know whether SEARCH_LIST had multiple G > > > equivalence names or not during the save operation; hence, BACKUP I > > > would not have enough information to tell whether to read the whole 7 > > > save set or not. So in general, it can't be done.  > > K > > So, backup parses the input spec(s) and translates all logicals anyway, @ > > doesn't it? How else would it "know" which files to process? > > > Yes it does. But during the restore, all it has access to isD > SEARCH_LIST. And from that alone, there is no way to tell what itsF > value was during the save operation. So BACKUP would have to analyzeE > the input parameter during the save *and* record the result of that G > analysis in the save set. But BACKUP doesn't do that, so it has to go F > through the whole tape to be sure there is not another occurrence ofE > the same directory-filename combination. Perhaps BACKUP could abort G > after the selected file is found during a restore of an image backup. $ > I don't see any problem with that.  B Well, since it's Friday, I guess I'll take the time to ponder thisC a bit more. Google won't post it for hours, anyway and I'll be long  gone to the old pub by then.  G That SEARCH_LIST is a logical name and isn't meaningful to /SELECT list H during a restore (unless the logical is translated to a symbol and used G as /select='search_list'). A /select list cannot contain a device name,  though.   G If there are multiple directories with the same name within a save_set, G then the backup procedure is wrongly designed whether backup allows it  G to happen or not. I can't think of any reasonable case where a restore  F would yield a consistantly desirable result if the directories containF files with the same name. You would need to use either /new_version orF /replace and I'm afraid my pondering doesn't compute that one today:-)  C If the intent is that the directories contain files with different  B names then of course they would be merged into a single directory @ during restore. I don't see this as something that would be doneA as SOP for normal backup. When I've had to merge directories from B small disks to a single larger disk I take the time to rename themF in a logical way first (ie, DISK1:[BLAH1] DISK2:[BLAH2] etc.) and deal= with the merge after things are dropped down to the new disk.   D So, anyhow, this is all just a pointless ponder because backup worksC the way is works, and aside from the lack of /statistics, it really @ does work just fine. I'd just have done it a little differently.    DL Phillips   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 14:10:50 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)" Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210181310.4a29a26f@posting.google.com>   ^ david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<aop6s4$st9$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0210171722.53f859f6@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:m > >whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) wrote in message news:<af0dc2ea.0210170727.4d03db0b@posting.google.com>...  > >> >  8 > >> > $ BACKUP DISK1:[BLAH],DISK2:[BLAH],DISK3:[BLAH] -# > >> >   MKA0:SAVE-SET-NAME.BCK !.   > >>F > >> Ouch! This should not be one save_set! There is no way to easily J > >> restore these files. This should be three backups to three save_sets. > > H > >But VMS BACKUP allows users to do this, and in some cases it may wellH > >be an okay thing to do. Maybe the user is transferring the files to aE > >much bigger disk on a remote system. It would make sense for that.  > > F > >But that doesn't really matter, because the fact that it is allowed4 > >means that it cannot be ignored as a possibility. > > 8 > >> >     $ BACKUP SEARCH_LIST: MKA0:SAVE-SET-NAME.BCK  > >> >  K > >> > where SEARCH_LIST is a logical name search list. Then there's no way B > >> > during the restore to know whether SEARCH_LIST had multipleH > >> > equivalence names or not during the save operation; hence, BACKUPJ > >> > would not have enough information to tell whether to read the whole8 > >> > save set or not. So in general, it can't be done. > >>  L > >> So, backup parses the input spec(s) and translates all logicals anyway,A > >> doesn't it? How else would it "know" which files to process?  > > ? > >Yes it does. But during the restore, all it has access to is E > >SEARCH_LIST. And from that alone, there is no way to tell what its G > >value was during the save operation. So BACKUP would have to analyze F > >the input parameter during the save *and* record the result of thatH > >analysis in the save set. But BACKUP doesn't do that, so it has to goG > >through the whole tape to be sure there is not another occurrence of F > >the same directory-filename combination. Perhaps BACKUP could abortH > >after the selected file is found during a restore of an image backup.% > >I don't see any problem with that.  > R > BACKUP DOESN'T have access to SEARCH_LIST during the restore. BACKUP just storesO > the directory structure and files on tape it does NOT store the device names.   B BACKUP stores the original command in the save set. You can see itE from BACKUP/LIST save-set. Therefore, BACKUP could, in priniciple, be @ rewritten to analyze the original command and see what the inputF parameter was, and it could then see that the original input parameter was "SEARCH_LIST".  = (I suppose that BACKUP could be confused in the processing of E analyzing the command stored in the save set if that command included C a comment because the quotes are stripped from the comment. Ah, yet ) another complication to the whole spiel.)   E BACKUP also stores a lot of other information besides the directories C and files. It stores the date/time, owner, save set name, CRC data,  redundancy groups, etc.    (See below for more details.)   M > If you explicitly specify a SEARCH_LIST on the restore then it will restore 8 > all the files to the first member of that SEARCH_LIST.  A True, but nowhere did I say to specify SEARCH_LIST in the restore  command. (See below.)   !                       ---- o ----   B You have clearly misunderstood my post. I will attempt to clarify.  F Assume you are restoring a file from a VMS BACKUP save set. Assume you are using a command like  1 $ BACKUP MKA0:/SELECT=[DIR]NAME.TYP;4 DKA0:[*...]   D Now, someone suggested that in this case BACKUP should automaticallyE stop once the desired file was found. I then responded by saying that C there could be more occurrences of that file in the save set if the A input parameter in the original BACKUP command -- the one used to D create the save set -- was a comma-separated list, especially if theC list included different disks. So, in such a case, during a restore D like the one shown above, BACKUP could miss other occurrences of the@ specified file-spec if it just stopped after restoring the firstC occurrence. I said that one would have to rewrite BACKUP to have it F examine the input parameter in the original BACKUP command, which *is*B saved in the save set. (How else could BACKUP/LIST display it?) ByE examining the input parameter, it could determine if it were a single F file-spec or a comma-separated list of file-specs. It could also check@ if multiple disks were involved. By doing all this, it could, in@ principle, determine whether to search to the end of tape or notE during a selective restore operation. But I then mentioned that there B is a possibility that the input parameter could have been a searchD list, namely SEARCH_LIST, as an example. So BACKUP would have accessF to what the input parameter was, in this case, SEARCH_LIST. ***BUT***,F there is no way for BACKUP, during the restore operation, to determineB what the value of SEARCH_LIST was at the time of the original save
 operation.  A I guess I should have said that BACKUP has access to the original : input parameter string, which could have been SEARCH_LIST.  D In summary, I was trying to point out that correct implementation ofD the idea of stopping the tape after the desired file is found is notE as simple as it first appears. The gotchas keep piling on. Only in an E /IMAGE backup would it be safe to abort after the first occurrence is ( found, if I haven't overlooked anything.  0 I hope I have been sufficiently clear this time.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 19 Oct 02 07:35:54 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) " Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP) Message-ID: <88ETnzEqU6$t@elias.decus.ch>   w In article <01KNQEWV42DE9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: F >> When I restore a selected file or files from a save_set I use /LOG E >> so it'll tell me that the file has been processed. Then I do a few D >> CTRL-T's just to make sure that it's on to something else. Then IC >> CTRL-Y and enter EXIT to close everything out. I've never had a  & >> problem with a file when I do this. > K > It turns out that I just cut it off too soon.  My normal quick-and-dirty  H > test USED=ALLOCATED is probably not valid for large files.  I did use J > /LOG but the message was lost in broadcasts and CTRL-T's the first time. >   I In this situation I use /CONFIRM/LOG. After the log message saying a file A has been restored, I wait a bit then CTRL/Y. If feasible, I'll go J for a wildcard selection so that I get a confirm prompt for the next file.; That way I am confident that processing has finished on thee file I am interested in.  I A nice thing to have here would be the equivalent processing as describedo% in COPY/CONFIRM (YES, NO, QUIT, ALL).     aK > As someone pointed out to me, a more robust test is to do a DIR/DATE and  K > wait until it changes from the time the file was restored to disk to the w > original timestamp.i > D >> I, too, think that backup should be aware enough to know when it A >> has processed all of the requested files, or there should be a  >> way to tell it so.e > K > Perhaps difficult since on tape one can have more than one file with the a$ > same name AND version number.  :-| --  
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:47:27 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s$ Subject: Re: Dell retakes #1 PC spot, Message-ID: <3DB0573E.240C9371@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:s9 > Did you ever have any doubt it would turn out this way?L  L I didn't. But Carly's promises seemed to have some credibility with analystsJ and reporters who believed that HP could truly become #1 in the PC market.  N In the end, HP will have paid a hell of a lot just to get iPAQ, Tandem and VMS& in terms of technologies it may keep.   G (Since Tru64 is a subset of VMS in terms of everything, they are reallyCM incorporating small bits of VMS into HP-UX, so HP didn't need Tru64 per say.)I  N One question I have is whether HP sees the incorporation of True64 features inL HP-UX as a necessary evil to try to keep Tru64 customers, or whether it sees this as a real asset.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:37:51 +0200a6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>$ Subject: Re: Dell retakes #1 PC spot) Message-ID: <3DB054FF.6050102@vajhoej.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:t  M > Not quite VMS related, but does outline how merger promises don't generallya > pan out...    L > HOUSTON -- Dell Computer Corp. (DELL) regained its standing as the world'sM > largest personal-computer maker just two quarters after losing the crown tohK > Hewlett-Packard Co. according to a newly released market-research report.t > P > In the quarter ended Sept. 30, Dell, of Austin, Texas, shipped 5.2 million PCsP > to H-P's 5.0 million PCs to retake the crown, according to a new estimate from- > International Data Corp., Framingham, Mass.   3 You can conclude that HP may not have got what they- thougth they bougth.  4 But you could also interpret as if Compaq would have, been in big big problems without the merger.  < My assumption is that the smaller "real HP" sales are rather9 stable, while the "Compaq" sales has dived significantly.P7 Primarily due to lousy products (Compaq Proliant are OKh# PC's, but Compaq Presario's sucks).e   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 16:00:22 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e" Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit Contents3 Message-ID: <jEmZDE$JMMF8@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  a In article <aopddf0260u@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:m  M > IIRC, the cost for a CD is under $1.  Unfortunatly I don't have any figureseC > for DVD, but I've seen estimates that put it at $1-7.  Here is ansJ > interesting tidbit, apparently it costs more to do 1 DVD-18 disk, ratherG > than 2 DVD-9, and you end up with far more rejects with DVD-18 (whichuK > explains all the 2 disc sets).  Also, the production cost (especially foriL > disks with lots of extras) is a significat cost as well with DVD's.  Music; > CD's are fairly easy to master compared with a Movie DVD.  > N > This is all for Music and CD's though.  For computer data (even commerciallyK > manufactured), I think we're limited to single sided/single layer (though N > I've seen one manufacture of single sided/double layer DVD-R blanks now, butI > that's pretty much beside the point).  For computer data, you prep youreK > data, and you either spit out 650-800MB (depending on the blanks used) oreM > 4.7GB for DVD (these are CD-R and DVD-R numbers they might be different for-G > commercial pressings).  BTW, that 4.7GB for DVD is more like 4.3 reale9 > gigabytes, they use the same stunt HD manufacturers do.   & For pressed disks, our vendor charges:  3 		$0.99 per CDROM and $1.39 per DVD, quantity 1000.I4 		$0.48 per CDROM and $0.95 per DVD, quantity 10000.4 		$0.36 per CDROM and $0.89 per DVD, quantity 25000.  : This is in bulk (no jewel case) with three color printing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:35:00 +0200r" From: DTL <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>5 Subject: installing the Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Java 4 Message-ID: <newscache$de574h$6gd$1@news.tiscali.fr>  2 I copied the "Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Java" from 5 http://www.adobe.com/products/acrviewer/acrvdnld.htmlg and installed it.B   Did not find the howto.e  
 So, I did:   DTL02> java LAUNIXGC.SH   
 amd I got:  + java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: launixgc/sh9   Can anyone help, please?   Thanks,s   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 15:51:04 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l* Subject: Re: Is anyone using this product?3 Message-ID: <DeF3uFMg2iyD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <H4Xr9.25$1j4.601186@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Meg Garrison" <meg.garrison@xxhpxx.com> writes:o  L > - We don't have plans to make the ETK work in Visual Studio V7 (.NET). TheH > add-in model changed *significantly* from V6 to V7 and we're currently# > spending our resources elsewhere.i  F I predict that others will follow your lead, having been yanked around  by Microsoft one too many times.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:19:22 +0200s1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> % Subject: java on VMS - help requestedT5 Message-ID: <3DB050AA.14DD012B@swissonline.delete.ch>   C I'm having problems with trying to work with Java servlets on a web F server running on VMS.  I just don't think that java is up to the taskC of providing anything that is even vaguely approaching an efficientk$ method.  Can someone please advise ?  F I would like to create a web application that is run from a web serverF on VMS.  On the VMS machine I want to be able to use logical names forH all the directories and filenames, use a large number of global symbols,F access RMS indexed files (some of which have multiple keys) and I wantE to be able to call command procedures which call other procedures.  InC don't want to just want to access all this once but I want to run ae& series of interactions across the web.  C The whole thing runs happily under DCL (lots of it) and is fast and-D smooth, but it is only available on VMS terminals or workstations. I> would like to extend its flexibility by getting it on the web.  @ I may be wrong but as I understand it, java cannot retain globalH symbols, cannot retain logical names (unless I define a new name table),H cannot efficiently call a series of command procedures and cannot accessH RMS indexed files without major effort. (I have seen methods of enablingH java to access RMS indexed files but this creates non-standard java whenG one basic aim of java is to be a standard interpreted language - "writeu anywhere, run anywhere".)t  E Much of the problem seems to be that java must spawn a new process ineE order to do anything which wants to use the capabilities that are notaF available in C on Unix.  When there is a sequence of interactions that> need to take place, the overheads of this approach become very) significant and performance will be poor.f  E Am I wrong in my assumptions ?  Is there any reasonable way to createrC the software that I need or should I resort to CGI scripts, perhaps>H using a mailbox to communicate with a VMS process, one that can keep itsD environment of logical names and global symbols, that can access RMSG indexed files and can call other procedures in a sensible and efficient  manner?d     Some general comments:  G Am I wrong or is java just an extension of C on unix ?  In other words, G is it a continuation of the concepts that unix and C people consider iscD industry-standard, while users of proprietary operating systems fromG DEC/CPQ/HP and IBM consider these to be "lowest common denominator" andr9 woefully inefficient for a lot of commercial processing ?-  D I can understand that a java applet should be in a standard languageG because it is handled by the browser on any platform, but I fail to seeoG any real need to create servlets in a standard language.  Each platform-F has its strengths and weaknesses so it seems reasonable to extend javaF to suit the platform.  (It can be argued that despite its assertion of= being standard, java is just standardised on unix and has the- characteristics of C.)  G An application running via a web server under one operating system williB almost inevitably need changes if it is moved to another operatingE system.  Attempting to use "standard" java servlets - ie. with no o/sn@ specific enhancements - seems a very high price to pay for beingH "standard" because sites rarely change web servers onto other platforms.  A Why not extend the java software to suit the capabilities of each.: operating system in the most useful and efficient manner ?  ? If java is not up to the task then maybe should just move on to.H something better.  I wonder though if Sun would get all upset about look7 and feel, and generally behave like Microsoft would =85d         John McLeanA   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:21:34 +0000 (UTC)h, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)) Subject: Re: java on VMS - help requestedd. Message-ID: <aopqge$71f$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes in article <3DB050AA.14DD012B@swissonline.delete.ch> dated Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:19:22 +0200:D >I'm having problems with trying to work with Java servlets on a webG >server running on VMS.  I just don't think that java is up to the taskOD >of providing anything that is even vaguely approaching an efficient% >method.  Can someone please advise ?  >eG >I would like to create a web application that is run from a web servernG >on VMS.  On the VMS machine I want to be able to use logical names foraI >all the directories and filenames, use a large number of global symbols,iG >access RMS indexed files (some of which have multiple keys) and I wantpF >to be able to call command procedures which call other procedures.  ID >don't want to just want to access all this once but I want to run a' >series of interactions across the web.t >sD >The whole thing runs happily under DCL (lots of it) and is fast andE >smooth, but it is only available on VMS terminals or workstations. I ? >would like to extend its flexibility by getting it on the web.: >rA >I may be wrong but as I understand it, java cannot retain global I >symbols, cannot retain logical names (unless I define a new name table),FI >cannot efficiently call a series of command procedures and cannot access I >RMS indexed files without major effort. (I have seen methods of enabling I >java to access RMS indexed files but this creates non-standard java when H >one basic aim of java is to be a standard interpreted language - "write >anywhere, run anywhere".)  I Reality check here -- if your intent is to use this application with RMS, H you aren't going to be able to run anywhere except VMS.  So... why Java?  L Java has its own way of storing global data -- Properties.  It's fairly easyH to read a properties file at the beginning of an app, use the data, thenG write it out if anything might have changed.  The only thing that could J screw you up there is if multiple processes were changing the table at the$ same time (as in system logicals).    F >Much of the problem seems to be that java must spawn a new process inF >order to do anything which wants to use the capabilities that are notG >available in C on Unix.  When there is a sequence of interactions thatD? >need to take place, the overheads of this approach become very * >significant and performance will be poor.  J It's not Java that must spawn a new process.  Maybe it's your web server? J However, I have noticed significant real-time overhead (seconds) in firingK up the JVM for a "java" command on VMS.  Web users do not want that kind ofyL delay.  You want a servlet that will stay alive for at least the duration of one user's session.     F >Am I wrong in my assumptions ?  Is there any reasonable way to createD >the software that I need or should I resort to CGI scripts, perhapsI >using a mailbox to communicate with a VMS process, one that can keep its E >environment of logical names and global symbols, that can access RMS H >indexed files and can call other procedures in a sensible and efficient >manner?  I If you use CGI scripts, you could set up a system-wide logical name tablenE that was owned by the web server.  But if your application is alreadymK multi-user, that's probably not what you want.  Maybe browser cookies -- toaB store user settings?  Those will even survive a client-end reboot.  E On many (good) VMS web servers you can't count on the same CGI server L process serving the same client twice in a row, so global symbols are out of the picture.   >Some general comments:- >-H >Am I wrong or is java just an extension of C on unix ?  In other words,H >is it a continuation of the concepts that unix and C people consider isE >industry-standard, while users of proprietary operating systems fromsH >DEC/CPQ/HP and IBM consider these to be "lowest common denominator" and: >woefully inefficient for a lot of commercial processing ?  I Java is supposedly the ultimate in portable language standardization.  ItsK also has a very mature set of object-oriented features (better than C++).  t  I The people who wrote it will only profit if you buy Sun computers, so yes.- its feature set is going to lean toward Unix.h  E >I can understand that a java applet should be in a standard language H >because it is handled by the browser on any platform, but I fail to seeH >any real need to create servlets in a standard language.  Each platformG >has its strengths and weaknesses so it seems reasonable to extend java.G >to suit the platform.  (It can be argued that despite its assertion of5> >being standard, java is just standardised on unix and has the >characteristics of C.)  >wH >An application running via a web server under one operating system willC >almost inevitably need changes if it is moved to another operatinglF >system.  Attempting to use "standard" java servlets - ie. with no o/sA >specific enhancements - seems a very high price to pay for being-I >"standard" because sites rarely change web servers onto other platforms.e >nB >Why not extend the java software to suit the capabilities of each; >operating system in the most useful and efficient manner ?n >i@ >If java is not up to the task then maybe should just move on toI >something better.  I wonder though if Sun would get all upset about lookm8 >and feel, and generally behave like Microsoft would =85  H They can't get too upset.  After all, they took a lot of language traitsK from C and C++.  But there's a ton of stuff that Sun has implemented in its K own classes for Java.  You're in for a lot of work if you intend to rewritet it all.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgb> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 OCT 2002 17:29:32 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: legato for Openvmsw2 Message-ID: <18OCT02.17293266@thuria.waisman.wisc>  C In a previous article, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:e   [snip]H ->I thought someone said that Legato had had a client for VMS for quite A ->sometime ? Will that client work with earlier versions of VMS ?b ->In particular VMS 6.2 ?   # Yes. See http://www.wumpusware.com/e   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisonn; --                    karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu  o   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Oct 2002 03:57:58 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Life after VMS?- Message-ID: <87zntb1pvd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:p  4 > On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:00:15 +0200, Didier Morandi! > <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:a  ,F > >Remember the DEC Jupiter (sad) story. When they understood that "itD > >would never work", Ken Olsen cancelled the project and caused the > >glory of VMS.  yE Where you in Amsterdam for DECUS in 84? There was a paper, `A tale of,B two Venuses.' by one of the old hands from VMS engineering. Bottom@ line: It all went totally pear shaped, and they had to throw outB *EVERYTHING* and re-start by building a totally new tool set. TheyB where running just under a hundred 780s and KLs at 100% full time.  E > Call the fastest KL-10 of the time a roughly 5 VUPs machine. FactordC > in the non-disclosure briefings on Jupiter which said it would beaA > 5-10 times KL-10 speed (IIRC), then they were trying to build aoD > PDP-10 with 25-50 VUPs of horsepower at a time when the VAX 11/7801 > was still current. No wonder they had problems!o  C And guess what got chopped as soon as it did? With all the fall out C from VenusII and the new tool set, the KC was a instant organ donort to the rest of LCG.e  iD > Personally I'm still waiting for the port of the PCL (Programmable; > Command Language) enhanced EXEC command parser to VMS :-)d  C The CMND jsys was promised in 83. So we can send it a reminder thatt it is about to turn 21!!  tC > >HP managers are not stupid. They know that IA64 may fail. Why do C > >you think the Alpha manufacturing process goes on? Because if HPhD > >discovers that IA64 "would never work", they will continue VMS on	 > >Alpha.u  @ I wonder if Intergraph could pull the plug via their patents? :)   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.c@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:05:11 -0400r; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> " Subject: Re: Linker tip of the day$ Message-ID: <3db04d81$1@news.si.com>  @ >We have lately released two linker kits. VMS73_LINKER-V0300 andH >VMS731_LINKER-V0100. The kits increase the linker's internal I/O buffer. >resulting in significant reduce in Link time.  L Surely that change should be easily incorporated into V7.2's linker as well,I for those people on prior-version support.  And of course you've made theh! same fixes on OpenVMS VAX, right?a  8 In fact, wouldn't the V7.3 linker run just fine on V7.2? --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com-A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comM= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventn< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:12:50 -0400e; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> $ Subject: Re: MAIL management utility$ Message-ID: <3db04f4c$1@news.si.com>  H >When POP service reads/downloads an email, it automagically moves it to4 >the MAIL folder, not WASTEBASKET, where it remains.  5 Depends on where you configure the POP server to movee -- rA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comsA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comV= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventd< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company  it.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:42:20 -0700 (PDT)o. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>" Subject: MIT and OpenVMS ----> PDF@ Message-ID: <20021018184220.24804.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  
 Just click  6 http://www.psfc.mit.edu/cmod/unix/ComputerStrategy.pdf   Computer Migration Strategy N In view of long standing trends in the computer industry, it will be necessary to move oursN computing platform(s) away from OpenVMS. In order to maintain the productivity ofJ the group, and to assess the alternatives, an incremental approach must be
 taken. TheN hardware strategy we are taking has two components: 1) A linux cluster, with a central2C server for system services and user files and (ultimately) 30 or 40R workstations. Our goalJ is to present a common environment for users sitting at any station and to minimize theM effort required for system maintenance. 2) A beowulf cluster for between shotl	 analysis.sN Between runs, this cluster will be used to run high-end physics codes. The VMS based F data acquisition engine will be replaced in the longer term because of limitations on theI resources needed to make this migration. Experience gained moving client 
 computingE will be crucial to the decisions about the migration of the main datah acquisitiont	 machines.    =====i ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com   ------------------------------   Date: 18 OCT 2002 20:21:10 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)& Subject: Re: MIT and OpenVMS ----> PDF2 Message-ID: <18OCT02.20211037@thuria.waisman.wisc>  F In a previous article, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:  8 ->http://www.psfc.mit.edu/cmod/unix/ComputerStrategy.pdf ..  F I'm surprized they held out this long considering these trends were inE motion within the physics community almost a decade ago. I'd bet they @ are the last VMS site left at MIT. I'm certain that it was not aG unanimous decision within that group - a lot of the extremely sharp VMSd+ people I used to work with are still there.2   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisonm: --                   karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:35:48 -0400 ' From: "Ung Ho Yi" <yi-1@medctr.osu.edu> / Subject: MSL5026DLX Library Performance Problemo: Message-ID: <aopnqo$f05$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   Hello,  L we installed MSL5026DLX Library and connected it to an Alpha4100 running VMS 7.2-1.5 Our through put is very low.  It's slower then TZ877.i  G Any help would be appreciated regarding our MSL5026DLX Library problem.o   Thanks,n yi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:46:25 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s Subject: Re: Multia help neededP' Message-ID: <3DB0B971.930E0C6A@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > G > Well, I'm begging again.  Is there anychance anyone here has a coupleoE > of SIMMs suitable for use in a Multia that they would be willing torG > part with??  I have been unable to find any anywhere.  I would reallygD > like to find out if the Multia I have works, but alas, not without > memory.  :-(  D Aren't those 72-pin parity SIMMs? They're (almost) a dime a dozen on e-Bay!   -- l David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:26:17 -0700t$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>. Subject: OT: Oracle's take on Microsoft's .NET0 Message-ID: <01C276BA.BEF77C00@sulfer.icius.com>  ( http://www.oracle.com/ip/net/claim1.html   I don't think they like it.    Shane    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 14:07:20 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)P0 Subject: Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium3 Message-ID: <ExMuGnSHDmqJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3DB03D53.76A233C2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:n  I > That really shouldn't break anything, given the existing documentation. J > Testing for explicit values would still work. 1 is still VAX, 2 is stillD > Alpha, and 0(zero) still means neither VAX nor Alpha, but does notB > explicitly identify the processor as non-DEC. One must assume...  D Zero is currently the code for "$GETSYI failed but you did not checkD the status after the call".  It is not documented that way, but such- conventions certainly help in comp.os.vms :-)a   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:09:54 GMTa/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>r2 Subject: Re: Tape Copy? (Or TapeCopy, the program)( Message-ID: <3DB0B12D.7000909@uiowa.edu>   First:  < 	Thanks to all the help and suggestions.  The method of bothA Foreign mounts and raw Copy chunk by chunk seemed to work for me.h  A However, the TapeCopy program interested me.  I picked it up, but A it in MACRO and has absolutely no documentation at all.  Not evend0 a build procedure or instructions in the header.  G When I "Macro TapeCopy", it gives tons of errors (Alpha/OpenVMS v7.2-1)t! and generates a 0-block OBJ file.y  A Does anyone know how to build the program and then how to run it?e  K I am very disappointed for a "VMS FreeWare" program.  Hoff usually requirest" better docs for the submissions...   rick --  J Richard L. Dyson                                      rick-dyson@uiowa.eduK   _   _  _____                      http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/-J | | | ||_   _|  Senior Systems Analyst   --   INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group< | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsJ | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems Dept. BT1000 GH   Office: 319/384-7016K   \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052                 FAX: 319/384-7020mE                  (Consulting to the Physics and Astronomy Department).   labadie wrote:6 > "Rick Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in message$ > news:3DAC8BA1.653FA3A@uiowa.edu... > F >>I need to duplicate a DLT I have with many backup save-sets on it toE >>another DLT.  It would be nice if the creation date of the new copyNG >>save-sets were preserved from the original, but that is not critical.n >>0 >>The save-sets were made with /BlockSize=65535. >>. >>I have tired to use COPY, but get this error >  >  > Hellos > I > A tool (save-set Manager) is designed to do that, and tcapecopy is eveny
 > cheaper :-)t= > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/tapecopy/t > 	 > Regardsk >  > Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:33:06 -0400a; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> - Subject: Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problemE$ Message-ID: <3db0540b$1@news.si.com>  3 >Sys$manager:TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP.COM has to be there.s  L Um, no it doesn't.  The FTP server is not a separate process that exists allI the time and doesn't need a separate startup.  It is defined as a service>. and is started by the main INET ACP on demand. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coms= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent"< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:52:39 GMTn. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problem*3 Message-ID: <rw_r9.66402$N_6.980215@news.chello.at>v  b In article <3db0540b$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:4 >>Sys$manager:TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP.COM has to be there. >mM >Um, no it doesn't.  The FTP server is not a separate process that exists allgJ >the time and doesn't need a separate startup.  It is defined as a service/ >and is started by the main INET ACP on demand.g  J Check again. The file is (and has to be) there and installs the FTP imagesB with privileges, because the user/job/process doesn't have them...   -- i Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 18 OCT 2002 19:51:42 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)- Subject: Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problemh2 Message-ID: <18OCT02.19514228@thuria.waisman.wisc>  5 ->>Sys$manager:TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP.COM has to be there.eN ->Um, no it doesn't.  The FTP server is not a separate process that exists allK ->the time and doesn't need a separate startup.  It is defined as a services0 ->and is started by the main INET ACP on demand.  G Sure it's started by INET on demand but before that can happen it needsiH to be installed with privs which is what TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP.COM does when TCPIP$STARTUP is called.    G If you plan on your system never being restarted until you update TCPIPiC services again (not all that unlikely considering we're talking VMSoH here) then, sure you can delete TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP.COM and the FTP server will run just fine.r   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisone9 --                  karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu  o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:35:16 -0400c; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> 2 Subject: Re: TCPIP,VMS 7.2.1 Alpha, license issue?$ Message-ID: <3db0548e$1@news.si.com>  H >I now realize that NAS 200 and UCX are redundant and could be clashing.  L While having a UCX license and a NETT-APP-SUP-200 license loaded at the sameD time could be considered redundant, they most certainly won't clash. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comdA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:19:33 GMTc/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>c4 Subject: TCPIP/UCX IP Address Filtering for Services( Message-ID: <3DB0B370.9010808@uiowa.edu>  E I want to use the /Accept/Reject filters for TCPIP Services (UCX) foraK Telnet to help restrict remote accesses to my nodes.  However, I can't seemeI to figure out how to make the /Accept=... command become active except byA   	$ tcpip disable service telnet  	$ tcpip enable service telnet  J Which, of course, has the nasty side effect of disconnecting all my active! Telnet sessions (all 300 users!).e  I Is there a way of telling the Telnet server to re-read the config without  actually stopping it first?h  E I am using an old version, v5.0A ECO 3 on Alpha/OpenVMS v7.2-1.  I am F planning on upgrading to TCPIP v5.3 ECO 1 and OpenVMS v7.3-1 soon, but7 not before I would like to control the remote accesses.i   Thanks In Advance! Rick -- lJ Richard L. Dyson                                      rick-dyson@uiowa.eduK   _   _  _____                      http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/'J | | | ||_   _|  Senior Systems Analyst   --   INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group< | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsJ | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems Dept. BT1000 GH   Office: 319/384-7016K   \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052                 FAX: 319/384-7020a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:37:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c8 Subject: Re: TCPIP/UCX IP Address Filtering for Services, Message-ID: <3DB0C55C.DD357CA2@videotron.ca>   "Richard L. Dyson" wrote:e > G > I want to use the /Accept/Reject filters for TCPIP Services (UCX) fornM > Telnet to help restrict remote accesses to my nodes.  However, I can't seemdK > to figure out how to make the /Accept=... command become active except byc > ( >         $ tcpip disable service telnet' >         $ tcpip enable service telnet   H Not sure about this specifically, but there are foreign commands such asL ifconfig ans sysconfig which allow more "live" changes to the running systemK than the TCPIP> commands. Telnet seems to be a special service that is deepCG down, so perhaps some of those "core" commands could change its config.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:10:32 +0200 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: TLZ09 on Alpha?) Message-ID: <3DB04E98.2060206@vajhoej.dk>/   Dan O'Reilly wrote:   H > Is this supported, or am I going to have to use this only on my VAXen?4 > This is the tabletop model, by the way (TLZ09-DB).   Why should it not work ?  * SCSI devices tend to work as SCSI devices.   :-)i   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:53:18 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>b Subject: Re: TLZ09 on Alpha?& Message-ID: <3DB0589E.5050301@srv.net>   Arne Vajhj wrote: > Dan O'Reilly wrote:a > I >> Is this supported, or am I going to have to use this only on my VAXen?-5 >> This is the tabletop model, by the way (TLZ09-DB).0 >  >  > Why should it not work ? > , > SCSI devices tend to work as SCSI devices. >   = I've tried to use an external TLZ07 on a DS10, it it wouldn'te: work. Would recognize it, but could not get it to reliably5 write without quitting with massive number of errors.e/ I suspect data was being shoved at it too fast.i- This tape drive works fine on a MicroVax3100.r) A newer model drive works OK on the DS10.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:57:47 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>M Subject: Re: TLZ09 on Alpha?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018135711.00ad4fc0@raptor.psccos.com>  , At 12:10 PM 10/18/2002, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >Dan O'Reilly wrote: >cH >>Is this supported, or am I going to have to use this only on my VAXen?4 >>This is the tabletop model, by the way (TLZ09-DB). >t >Why should it not work ?- >-+ >SCSI devices tend to work as SCSI devices.a  E Yes and no.  I tried a TK50 on my AS200 and it would get all sorts ofl- errors.  Works fine on my Vaxstation 4000/60.0   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:42:54 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>c1 Subject: Re: Undocumented GETSYI item MAIN_MOMORYh$ Message-ID: <3db05658$1@news.si.com>  I >I did see, that there is an undocumented GETSYI item called MAIN_MOMORY. ' >Does anybody know, how it is formated?P  H It's four hex longwords all in a row corresponding to the values for theK "Modified", "In Use", "Free", and "Total" main memory values, respectively,q, you'll see in the SHO MEMORY command.  Look:   $ say f$gets("main_memory")t  0000B95700038A780005BC31000A0000 $ w=%x0000B957 $ x=%x00038A78 $ y=%x0005BC31 $ z=%x000A0000 $ sho sym wg1   W = 47447   Hex = 0000B957  Octal = 00000134527n $ sho sym xd2   X = 232056   Hex = 00038A78  Octal = 00000705170 $ sho sym yn2   Y = 375857   Hex = 0005BC31  Octal = 00001336061 $ sho sym zt2   Z = 655360   Hex = 000A0000  Octal = 00002400000	 $ sho memm@               System Memory Resources on 18-OCT-2002 14:38:27.78  L Physical Memory Usage (pages):     Total        Free      In Use    ModifiedL   Main Memory (320.00Mb)          655360      375857      232056       47447L --------------------------------------Z-----------Y----------X-----------W-- -n --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comrA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventI< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:01:37 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> 1 Subject: Re: Undocumented GETSYI item MAIN_MOMORY 8 Message-ID: <lUYr9.18557$2s.821430@twister.maine.rr.com>  3 "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in message 0 news:200210180606.IAA08862@sinet1.fom.fgan.de... > Hello, > J > I did see, that there is an undocumented GETSYI item called MAIN_MOMORY.( > Does anybody know, how it is formated? >t  > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert >    fyi...  D I suspect Rudolf realizes this, but for all reading this thread, theD VMS731_DCL ECO provides separate item codes for these memory values.  * $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("TOTAL_PAGES") 163845) $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("FREE_PAGES")f 918u) $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("USED_PAGES")f 14495 - $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("MODIFIED_PAGES")a 971>
 $ show mem@               System Memory Resources on 18-OCT-2002 14:47:05.04  L Physical Memory Usage (pages):     Total        Free      In Use    ModifiedL   Main Memory (128.00MB)           16384         873       14539         972   -Jeffr   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:29:30 -0700 (PDT)-. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>? Subject: Re: VAX Clones (was:  RE:  How to purchase Charon VAX)I@ Message-ID: <20021018182930.71392.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>   Like they say therea   Daaaaaa !!!!  9 Why not turn public old technology like VAX, PDP, Atari !x/ A Playstation have much more power than a VAX !m     Regardso   FC i& --- VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote: >  > FC:* > 6 > You might be able to get one if you have some rubles# > (or a couple of cases of vodka)--c > > > But wait!  You *were* interested in relocation, weren't you? > B >    http://www.micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html >  > :^)  >  > WWW2 > " > Post a follow-up to this message > > > Should be created a law to get OPEN the old hard/software!!!( > PAatent expiration, things like that !1 > So, a  company would make VAX hardware clones !i >  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC8 > --- Sue Skonetski <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote: > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Chuck Graham [mailto:cwgraham@sai-net.com], > > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 4:11 PM > > To: Skonetski, Susan0 > > Cc: Greg Pysher; Jean Brunache; Tim Cochrane/ > > Subject: CHARON VAX & Salem Automation Inc.m > >r > >  > > Sue, > > G > > It was good to meet with you at our booth in the Encompass show andf= > > get a perspective of the scope of VMS support within yourt4 > > organization.  As we discussed, Salem AutomationE > > (WWW.SalemAutomation.com), is the premier reseller for the CHARON J > > products offering pre-sales consulting, data migration services, phoneB > > support, customized systems and training at our North CarolinaI > > facility.  Per your request I wanted to write to you about the CHARONiJ > > VAX product and some of the benefits for movement to this new emulatedJ > > VAX environment.  As we discussed,  there is an Open VMS Alpha version  > > and a Linux/Windows version. > >cI > > The Alpha version of CHARON VAX emulates a 3100-98 CPU with 512 MB ofhG > > memory.  It runs at about 25 VUPs on an Alpha computer and providesdJ > > greatly improved disk I/O throughput over the older, slower VAX disks.I > >  A new version of this product with performance improvements is to betJ > > released November 1, 2002.  This product is an excellent fit for those< > > clients that want to continue in an all VMS environment. > >oI > > The Windows version is titled Personal Version, XM, XL or Industrial. G > >  The personal version emulates a 16 MB MicroVAX II.  The IndustrialnG > > version, with backward compatible Q-Bus support, emulates the 64 MBeF > > MicroVAX 3600.  The XM/XL versions emulate a MicroVAX 3100-98 withB > > either 128 MB or 512 MB.  The PLUS version of these CHARON VAXI > > products can achieve 60 VUPs on the appropriate PC hardware.  This isaG > > faster than the fastest single processor VAX ever made!  CHARON VAXeH > > runs on either AMD or Intel hardware and achieves higher VUP ratingsF > > depending upon the speed of the host PC processor.  The IndustrialF > > version of this product supports a interface board that allows theG > > user to replace the memory, disk, tape of an existing VAX with a PCEJ > > platform, but still continue to use custom I/O boards that are tied to= > > the customer's application and cannot be easily replaced.  > >sG > > There is also a CHARON 11 product which emulates any version of theaH > > PDP computer and increases speed over the PDP platform 3 to 5 times. > >tA > > All these products are installed in various manufacturing andhA > > government organizations and are working well.  Customers are A > > purchasing these products for a variety of reasons including:t > >dB > > Reduced compile times & programmer costs for software changes > > ( > > Eliminate hardware maintenance cost > > ? > > Eliminate risk of finding obsolete VAX hardware and sparesi > >e? > > Allow system managers to do backups using Windows/PC toolsa > >lJ > > Ability to create as many DEC Virtual disks (disk container files) to5 > > the limit of your PCs disk space as VMS supports.b > >eG > > Ability to do backups in VMS to a Virtual Tape container file thatc! > > can be backed up to a server.t > > H > > .CHARON VAX speed goes up with processor speed, approx 1 VUP per 1004 > > MHz (Plus versions faster, 2.5 VUP per 100 MHz). > >eI > > Support for multiple network cards within a VMS/MicroVAX environmenta > >kJ > > Consolidate hardware platforms (can put multiple VAX computers into a > > single multi-processor PC) > > F > > Disk I/O is 5 to 20 times faster than original VAX Disk I/O speed > > E > > We are finding these systems have less than one year payback.  We>I > > would welcome any interest from individuals in your organization whom.F > > may feel this product is a good fit for migration of a system to aI > > newer hardware platform while maintaining proven customer applicationeI > > software.  This product can be a used as a tool to upgrade clients tovH > > newer technology while keeping them in the reliable VMS environment. > >eA > > Feel free to forward this email information to anyone in your E > > organization or externally who may find this information helpful.b > >e > > Sincerely, > >  > > Chuck Graham > > Salem Automation Inc.  > > 4500 Indiana Ave, Suite 40 > > Winston-Salem, NC 27106   > > cwgraham@SalemAutomation.com > > WWW.SalemAutomation.comc" > > Mobile            704-451-2881 >  >  > =====I > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilt > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!?4 > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More > http://faith.yahoo.com >  > ========================" > William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS > OpenVMS Support Services( > 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800< > 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>     =====n ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:56:37 -0700a$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>7 Subject: RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancee0 Message-ID: <01C27695.1ECF4520@sulfer.icius.com>  B OK, there's a Charon VAX. How about a Charon PC to run on VMS in aG secure sandbox? The Bristol Technologies approach to running Windows onfE VMS relied on having Windows source to get the RTLs right, and that'ssH how MS killed them. If someone were to instead emulate the hardware/BIOSC level of the PC, that problem goes away. MS would have no reason tolE complain because it wouldn't take any business away from them, they'do> just have a bigger market. 'Course, Intel'd be annoyed. Bonus.  G Heh, that gives me a silly idea. Maybe the emulator could be written innG Java so it'd be portable, then we'd have Word running on a PC emulationeD running on the Java Virtual Machine on VMS. Pity Java doesn't run onF VAX, or we could put the whole thing on VMS on a Charon VAX on a PC...   Shanee   -----Original Message-----B From: koehler@encompasserve.org [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]' Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 10:49 AMh To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance     C In article <01KNTFS7XV4Y9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip 3 Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:  > H > Why not go ALL the way and say that the only sensible way to exchange K > information between various computing platforms is to use a format which lI > is not proprietary to, or for the most part determined by, just one of r > the players.  G    Because we have a customer which has declared that Microsoft Word isb.    thier standard document interchange format.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:22:40 +0100 (MET)u9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chanceh; Message-ID: <01KNTMDCZB8W9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > > Why not go ALL the way and say that the only sensible way to exchange M > > information between various computing platforms is to use a format which sK > > is not proprietary to, or for the most part determined by, just one of e > > the players. > F > Because we have a customer which has declared that Microsoft Word is- > thier standard document interchange format.a  H Obviously, in cases like this it has to be the "customers" who make the  decisions, not the contractors.   D I know the feeling.  Some time ago, when I was young and needed the F money, I even bought a PC since I got offered good pay for doing some H technical translations which HAD to be done in WORD.  I bought hardware F and software new, with WORD and WINDOWS pre-installed.  No other apps G since I didn't need them.  Up until then, practically my only computer rC experience was VMS and a bit of unix.  (OK, I had a programmable TIt calculator in the early 80s.)   G I experienced massive problems with the hardware, the software and the dG support from the shop (computer retail chain) where I bought the stuff.nA (I am happy to state publicly here that the company involved was bE "comtech" in Germany, that a court case later forced the shop to pay iH consulting fees---many times the price of the computer I bought---for anG expert I got to write a report saying that there was indeed a hardware  F problem and not, as claimed, a "user error", that I talked with other C folks who had similar problems and that the shop was later closed, nG hopefully because of the bad manner in which the employees treated the aB customers.  Comtech was later bought by MobilCom, which is in the  process of going bankrupt.)s  D I find it truly unbelievable that folks put up with this stuff on a G daily basis.  Contrast to DEC stuff: in my hobbyist cluster, I have theiE latest version of VMS running on hardware which is in some cases moredF than 10 years old.  And old programs compiled and linked a decade ago A run on new hardware.  Most of the stuff I picked up used and have.F transported it a few thousand kilometers altogether, in the back of myI car.  I've never HAD to reboot because something crashed (but do so from cF time to time after patches, upgrades etc---but even here, the cluster $ can stay up).  The stuff just works.  C On the two occasions where I did have a problem---with new stuff I DI bought while working in academia in England---DEC engineers were on site aF within a day and got the stuff fixed.  (In one case it was just a bad C disk, in the other I just needed a patch which wasn't yet publicly /I available, so a guy in a suit and an expensive car drove out and brought i me a diskette.)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:08:24 +0200-6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancej' Message-ID: <3DB04E18.70307@vajhoej.dk>z   Didier Morandi wrote:c  9 > Who will start porting MS Office(tm) to VMS/DECwindows?  >  > I ask the question.   5 Can you get the sources from Microsoft and permission  to use it ?    :-)i   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 19:36:11 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>h7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance`5 Message-ID: <20021018193611.4846.qmail@gacracker.org>V  6 On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >Didier Morandi wrote:   <snip>  : >> Who will start porting MS Office(tm) to VMS/DECwindows? >> t >> I ask the question. >> e >s3 >Seems a pretty peverse thing to want to run on VMSo9 >IA64 after all isn't destined to be a volume desktop CPU , >for some time because of its heat and cost. >e9 >Wouldn't you be better off pushing for SAP/Seibel/Oracle 5 >Apps/PeopleSoft/Sybase and all the other server appsu0 >missing from or not at an up-to-date rev in the >OpenVMS software portfolio.  D For some inexplicable reason, there are people in this newsgroup whoB believe that VMS from desktop to datacenter would be A GOOD THING.  H I wonder... Would the name of the newsgroup perhaps explain why you findH people who dare to think things like that here instead of a bunch of Sun zealots?     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netp   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:44:56 -0700 (PDT)e. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancep@ Message-ID: <20021018184456.74811.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>  0 Try VMWare for OpenVMS ! The best thing to do !    Regardsl   FC c( --- Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: > Didier Morandi wrote:  > ; > > Who will start porting MS Office(tm) to VMS/DECwindows?c > >  > > I ask the question.b > 7 > Can you get the sources from Microsoft and permissione
 > to use it ?0 >  > :-)  >  > Arne >      =====n ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:48:19 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancef; Message-ID: <01KNTNVU00ME9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  ? > > > > Who will start porting MS Office(tm) to VMS/DECwindows?t > > > >  > > > > I ask the question.i > > >t8 > > > Seems a pretty peverse thing to want to run on VMS> > > > IA64 after all isn't destined to be a volume desktop CPU1 > > > for some time because of its heat and cost.r > > < > > Wouldn't you be better off pushing for SAP/Seibel/Oracle8 > > Apps/PeopleSoft/Sybase and all the other server apps3 > > missing from or not at an up-to-date rev in theI > > OpenVMS software portfolio.  > F > For some inexplicable reason, there are people in this newsgroup whoD > believe that VMS from desktop to datacenter would be A GOOD THING.  B Yes.  I'm one of them.  But this has nothing to do with MS Office  running on VMS.   @ In the days before the dominance of Redmond, VMS WAS desktop to C datacenter.  There were big machines like the VAX 9000.  There wereAB little machines like diskless VAXstation 3100/30 machines used as F satellites in a cluster.  And VMS was the same regardless of the size  and power of the machine.   I I suspect that many folks running VMS on big iron today learned about it 0B on little iron.  That is why EVEN FOR HP low-end VMS is essential.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 14:09:55 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)w7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chanceM3 Message-ID: <LB9sQu3NwWUC@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  c In article <$Owna8veIj07@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: y > In article <01KNTFS7XV4Y9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:T >> aI >> Why not go ALL the way and say that the only sensible way to exchange aL >> information between various computing platforms is to use a format which J >> is not proprietary to, or for the most part determined by, just one of  >> the players.o > I >    Because we have a customer which has declared that Microsoft Word isu0 >    thier standard document interchange format.  H After trying for the past 3 days to get such a document from a customer,H I would say that "Microsoft Word Format" is an under-specification.  OneI must determine the version and platform.  Even their RTF is not portable.m   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 20:17:44 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chanceC5 Message-ID: <20021018201744.5854.qmail@gacracker.org>   H On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:   <snip>  G >> For some inexplicable reason, there are people in this newsgroup who E >> believe that VMS from desktop to datacenter would be A GOOD THING.e >8C >Yes.  I'm one of them.  But this has nothing to do with MS Office a >running on VMS.   Agreed.O  A >In the days before the dominance of Redmond, VMS WAS desktop to  D >datacenter.  There were big machines like the VAX 9000.  There wereC >little machines like diskless VAXstation 3100/30 machines used as  G >satellites in a cluster.  And VMS was the same regardless of the size o >and power of the machine.  J This is one of the more refined aspects of VMS. My opinion is that VMS hasC a distinct "engineered" feel to it whereas Windows, and much of theaD software running on it, feels as if it was thrown together purely to generate money.-  J >I suspect that many folks running VMS on big iron today learned about it C >on little iron.  That is why EVEN FOR HP low-end VMS is essential.-  K Low-end means foundations. Something that doesn't seem to be present in theyD strategy for VMS. All this talk of "roadmaps" can easily lead you to5 believe that there is a *final* destination involved..     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:19:47 +0200p- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>-7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancem' Message-ID: <3DB06CE3.EED109C1@Free.fr>n   Bob Koehler wrote: > y > In article <01KNTFS7XV4Y9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:a > >nI > > Why not go ALL the way and say that the only sensible way to exchangetL > > information between various computing platforms is to use a format whichJ > > is not proprietary to, or for the most part determined by, just one of > > the players. > I >    Because we have a customer which has declared that Microsoft Word ise0 >    their standard document interchange format.  J Tell the Customer that there ARE standards. And the standard today is pdf.  L Microsoft will understand that one day when all FrontPage sites will be justO unreadable by any other navigator than ie and when the Field starts to be upsetOO about it. There IS a W3C standard and an HTML 4 standard and and and. Microsoft>M has changed their default font characters to make text unreadable by 51 years O old eyes using Netscape. This is dishonest. The antislash for subdirectories ismL dishonest, all these new accentuated characters coding witch^H^H^H :-) which< break Netscape 4.x is dishonest (does this word exist, btw?)  K Do you know that Netscape HAD to include non standard coding to allow theiro) users to be able to read FrontPage sites?u  5 In French, we say "the world is walking on its head".    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:21:47 +0200h- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancen' Message-ID: <3DB06D5A.60C499E4@Free.fr>n  8 We could ask Logitech. They purchased VirtualPC for Mac.   D.   Shane Smith wrote: > D > OK, there's a Charon VAX. How about a Charon PC to run on VMS in a > secure sandbox?s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:12:54 +0200c- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>:7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance3' Message-ID: <3DB06B45.F4EA123F@Free.fr>T   Phillip Helbig wrote:  > + > If you like Microsoft products, use them.a  I No no no. If you work within a 2000 people company and you are the new ITrM manager and you decide to implement VMS boxes on the tables, when you receiveoL dozen of .doc files, what do you do? You set up a killfile with an automatic3 answerback message saying "please send me an .rtf?"s   You must be joking.t   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2002 16:06:35 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancei3 Message-ID: <T47vzHgVeax$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3DB06D5A.60C499E4@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:_: > We could ask Logitech. They purchased VirtualPC for Mac.   When did that happen ?  ; Googling for VirtualPC points to Connectix, the originator.|   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:58:50 +0200t= From: Martin Heller <martin.heller@NOSPAM.for.me.mheller.org>_7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance48 Message-ID: <3DB0AE4A.2090200@NOSPAM.for.me.mheller.org>  ! If you like to do it on your own:: http://bochs.sourceforge.net. Only a C++ compiler - and time - is needed ...   Yours, M. Heller  5 -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-e4 VFY -- THEY ARE STILL LOST, COULD NOT FIND DIRECTORY   Didier Morandi wrote:w  : > We could ask Logitech. They purchased VirtualPC for Mac. >  > D. >  > Shane Smith wrote: > D >>OK, there's a Charon VAX. How about a Charon PC to run on VMS in a >>secure sandbox?s >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:21:23 -0400c1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial>c7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance 0 Message-ID: <3DB0CFB3.8A71EAC1@yahoo.commercial>   Didier Morandi wrote:: >09 > Who will start porting MS Office(tm) to VMS/DECwindows?n >  > I ask the question.P  7 Maybe the question should be who's going to take on thes OpenOffice/StarOffice VMS?   -- S Ed Wensell III  ; E-mail address is valid if you know the right bits to drop.a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.577 ************************