1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 21 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 582       Contents: Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Acrobat Reader?  Re: Any news from Sue ?  Re: Barcode labels RE: Barcode labels, batch process won't die after BACKUP aborted* Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2* Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2* Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP  Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP = Current storage interconnect options, and new gigabit option?  Re: Dell retakes #1 PC spot  Re: Dell retakes #1 PC spot  Re: ECU A GNV: BASH questions and source code location ?, Was: Re: $ RECALL E Re: GNV: BASH questions and source code location ?, Was: Re: $ RECALL 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 0 Re: installing the Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Java  Re: java on VMS - help requested  Re: java on VMS - help requested Re: Life after VMS?  Mailbox security Re: Mailbox security Re: Mailbox security Monitor System Question  Re: Monitor System Question  Re: Monitor System Question * Re: MSL5026DLX Library Performance Problem Re: New User/Owner VMS question  Re: New User/Owner VMS question  RE: New User/Owner VMS question  OpenVMS is still strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic Re: OpenVMS is strategic+ Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL + Re: Originator of detached process from DCL 	 PCL image ) Re: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 - Impossible? ) Re: Tape Copy? (Or TapeCopy, the program) $ Re: Technical Question -- Thank you!$ Re: Technical Question -- Thank you!. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance; Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) ; Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) ' Why does this file-spec work only once?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:23:17 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?3 Message-ID: <Um+bYcdVNitg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <phq0ru0k3pf5dv8no44iok3rodp628huac@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes:  > 8 > 	http://www.adobe.com/products/acrviewer/acrvdnld.html > G > and scan down to Acrobat Viewer for other Java-enabled Platforms. Has  > anyone tried this out?  D    Excruciatingly slow.  xpdf is a much better tool and also runs on    VMS.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:24:45 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?3 Message-ID: <yAshJAPZkX5I@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3DB08128.31E34115@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:   R > And I'm surfing the Internet with MOZ 1.1b, and when I see something interestingK > I click on it and when it's a Word doc, I forget it (will read it from my R > beloved Mac), when its pdf I wonder where I could get the reader, and I discoverN > that there is no and I slowly understand that we are fighting a lost battle. > @    In addition to xpdf, catdoc is quite usefull on a VMS system.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:33:46 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?; Message-ID: <01KNXJOZ08NG9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   A >   In addition to xpdf, catdoc is quite usefull on a VMS system.   >    http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?CATDOC  A     Description: Extracts contents of MS-Word files as plain text      Version: V3.4, 4-JUN-1998 )     Author: Victor Wagner, Hunter Goatley      Architecture: VAX,AXP      Size: 42 blocks      Language: C   C IIRC, it is a unix port (hence "catdoc" and not "TYPE_DOC").  Like   everything at   0    http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.html   installs easily, works great.    Thanks to Hunter  0    http://www.process.com/openvms/engineer.html   F for continuing to maintain one of the best internet resources for VMS  users!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:03:12 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?' Message-ID: <3DB43350.6D682720@Free.fr>   	 ouatizit?    D.   Bob Koehler wrote: > Y > In article <3DB08128.31E34115@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:  > T > > And I'm surfing the Internet with MOZ 1.1b, and when I see something interestingM > > I click on it and when it's a Word doc, I forget it (will read it from my T > > beloved Mac), when its pdf I wonder where I could get the reader, and I discoverP > > that there is no and I slowly understand that we are fighting a lost battle. > > B >    In addition to xpdf, catdoc is quite usefull on a VMS system.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:42:25 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>   Subject: Re: Any news from Sue ?2 Message-ID: <50Xs9.39$XQ7.712838@news.cpqcorp.net>  J She has been sending mail, so I am assuming all is well.  She indicated toI me before she left that the procedure didn't require a hospital stay, but ) she would be recovering for a week or so.   E Expect her to need a few days to get unburied from mail.  She is very  popular, and very busy.   = JF Mezei wrote in message <3DB39344.B8F1DA18@videotron.ca>... J >Last week, Sue announced that she was recovering from surgey and would be atK >home for some time. haven't heard from her since. Any news from her ? Sue,  are  >you still alive ? Doing OK ?    ------------------------------  / Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:35:18 +0200 (MET DST) & From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: Re: Barcode labels 6 Message-ID: <200210210935.LAA15220@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  # here are more specific information:   < 	There is an overland stacker which reads the Barcode labels 	of the inserted tapes. > 	Legato is able to read this labels and to use them to archive 	the backup listings.   F I would like to do the same with the normal BACKUP utility of OpenVMS.I This is the background of my question. Here more specific: Is it possible G to read (best way under DCL) the Barcode labels of the entire Tape from H the overland stacker? If yes, with which utility or DCL commands is thisE possible, so that I can use the code to generate a specific filename.    TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:40:27 -0400 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>  Subject: RE: Barcode labels K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B8C@rlghncst964.usps.gov>    Rudolf,   H As far as I know, reading of bar codes is not done by BACKUP but rather F by Media Robot Utility (if the device in question can read bar codes.)  ) ROBOT SHOW SLOT x displays the following:   , Slot:          x          BarCode/Empty/Full   "BarCode" info if readable, ! "Empty" if the slot is empty, or  0 "Full" if the tape is not bar code labeled or if6 the bar code label is of a format that cannot be read.  B I've written DCL to run a TL892 to INIT a magazine of 10 barcoded = tapes and make the volume label of the tapes the same as the  	 barcodes.   0 It also uses both drives for greater efficiency.   WWWebb  0 Rudolf Wingert asked about BACKUP and bar codes- ---  Hello,  # here are more specific information:   @      There is an overland stacker which reads the Barcode labels      of the inserted tapes. B      Legato is able to read this labels and to use them to archive      the backup listings.   F I would like to do the same with the normal BACKUP utility of OpenVMS.I This is the background of my question. Here more specific: Is it possible G to read (best way under DCL) the Barcode labels of the entire Tape from H the overland stacker? If yes, with which utility or DCL commands is thisE possible, so that I can use the code to generate a specific filename.    TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert ---    ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:50:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: batch process won't die after BACKUP aborted , Message-ID: <3DB3DBE3.F3C45655@videotron.ca>   VAX VMS, 7.2  K Got a strange behaviour of BACKUP in batch.  Somehow, on the 3rd TK70, some  hard error occured. I N first specified "CONTINUE" to see if it could, but I quickly got another OPCOM+ request, at which point I specified "QUIT".   : BACKUP huffed and puffed for a few instants, issuing many:5 	%BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer < and then exited, allowing the command procedure to complete.  M The batch log file ended with the accounting information. But the MUA0 device @ stays mounted and the process continues to exist on the system !  K STOP/ID does nothing. SHOW PROC says it is suspended. I have inlcuded below L the relevant snapshot for the device, log file and process (from ana/system)    L SHOW ENTRY/FULL reveals that it is still EXECUTING.  DELETE/ENTRY results in? the SHOW ENTRY now showing it "ABORTING". Process still in LEF.     M I'll let it like that for perhaps a day, and then unless I get something from I comp.os.vms, I'll have to REBOOT MY VMS MACHINE. Ah, I think we should be K allowed to sue the VMS engineers whenever we must reboot a VMS node :-) :-)     + Below are some of the relevant information:     O Magtape VELO$MUA0:, device type TK70, is online, allocated, controller supports L     tape data caching (write-back cache enabled), mounted foreign, volume isP     marked for dismount, record-oriented device, file-oriented device, available)     to cluster, error logging is enabled.   O     Error count                    1    Operations completed              20315 O     Owner process      "BACKUP FULL"    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] O     Owner process ID        2020151E    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W O     Reference count                3    Default buffer size               32768   O     Volume label            "FBAK3 "    Relative volume no.                   0 O     Record size                    0    Transaction count                     1 O     Mount status             Process    Mount count                           0 $     ACP process name              ""O     Density                    10000    Format                        Normal-11   C   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, position lost, odd parity.   N And more interestingly, the "BACKUP_FULL" process remains there on the system,L in a LEF state. (even though the batch job log file ends with the accountingE for the job). STOP/ID does nothing. (not even put it in RWAST).  SHOW 2 PROC/CONT fails, it sais the process is suspended.    - Here is the relevant portion of the log file:     P $ backup/noinitialize/image/noalias/record/journal=F-2002-10-21.BJL/block=32528-G         /ignore=(interlock) $DISK2: mua0:disk2.save/save_set/norewind - (         /label=(FBAK1,FBAK2,FBAK3,FBAK4)P %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, $DISK2:[ALLIN1.DATA_SHARE]DEFER$MAIL.DAT;1 is open for wri te by another user  $ <snipage of various normal warnings>    0 %BACKUP-I-RESUME, resuming operation on volume 3" %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, medium is offlineA %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, Please mount volume FBAK3  in device _VELO$MUA0: D BACKUP requests: Saveset DISK2.SAVE, Volume number 03, write ENABLED. %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, FBAK3 mounted on _VELO$MUA0:I %MOUNT-I-RQSTDON, operator request canceled; mount completed successfully 5 %BACKUP-E-FATALERR, fatal error on MUA0:[]DISK2.SAVE;  -SYSTEM-F-DATALOST, data lost  %BACKUP-I-OPERSPEC< %BACKUP-I-OPERASSIST, operator assistance has been requested/ %BACKUP-I-OPREPLY, operator reply is "CONTINUE" 5 %BACKUP-E-FATALERR, fatal error on MUA0:[]DISK2.SAVE;  -SYSTEM-F-DATALOST, data lost  %BACKUP-I-OPERSPEC< %BACKUP-I-OPERASSIST, operator assistance has been requested+ %BACKUP-I-OPREPLY, operator reply is "QUIT" 8 %BACKUP-F-ABORT, operator requested abort on fatal error4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer4 %BACKUP-F-WAITIDLEBCB, attempted wait on idle buffer $! $dealloc mua0:- %SYSTEM-F-DEVMOUNT, device is already mounted  $!********** $BAD:  $!********** $!dismount mua0: $dealloc mua0:- %SYSTEM-F-DEVMOUNT, device is already mounted  $! $!********** $END:  $!********** $!1 $set file F-2002-10-21.BJL/expiry="+120-00:00:00"  $!. $request "Le backup hebdomadaire est termin." $exit 8   SYSTEM       job terminated at 21-OCT-2002 06:04:49.98     Accounting information: L   Buffered I/O count:           58121         Peak working set size:   16500L   Direct I/O count:            106697         Peak page file size:     22304L   Page faults:                  11543         Mounted volumes:             3M   Charged CPU time:           0 01:15:42.50   Elapsed time:     0 02:42:21.02     $ using ANA/SYSTEM , SHOW PROC/CHANNEL@ Process index: 001E   Name: BACKUP FULL   Extended PID: 2020151E@ ----------------------------------------------------------------3                             Process active channels 3                             ----------------------- < Channel  Window           Status        Device/file accessed< -------  ------           ------        ---------------------   0010  00000000                        DUA0: -   0020  00000000             Busy       MUA0:  SDA> SHOW PROC@ Process index: 001E   Name: BACKUP FULL   Extended PID: 2020151E@ ----------------------------------------------------------------0 Status : 00044023 res,delpen,respen,batch,phdres! Status2: 00000001 quantum_resched F PCB address              80D84780    JIB address              80D7BC00F PHD address              81A65600    Swapfile disk address    00000000F Master internal PID      002A001E    Subprocess count                0F Internal PID             002A001E    Creator internal PID     00000000F Extended PID             2020151E    Creator extended PID     00000000F State                       LEF      Termination mailbox          0000F Current priority                8    AST's enabled                KESUF Base priority                   3    AST's active                 NONEF UIC                [00001,000004]    AST's remaining               100I Mutex count                     0    Buffered I/O count/limit       49/50 I Waiting EF cluster              0    Direct I/O count/limit         50/50 L Starting wait time       1C001C1C    BUFIO byte count/limit      64000/64000F Event flag wait mask     7FFFFFFF    # open files allowed left     300F Local EF cluster 0       66300004    Timer entries allowed left     50F Local EF cluster 1       80000000    Active page table count       284F Global cluster 2 pointer 00000000    Process WS page count         328F Global cluster 3 pointer 00000000    Global WS page count          204   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:45:08 +0200 6 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= 3 Subject: Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 + Message-ID: <3DB404E4.AAED86E4@laposte.net>   + You can ignore the message %COPY-W-INCOMPAT   M The directory PYTHON_ROOT:[VMS.O_ALPHA.VMS], initially empty, is created when  the Python saveset is restore.D It was accidently remove from the latest distribution, sorry for the inconvenience.$ I will add it and rebuild a new kit.  F You can, before build the last module, create manually this directory.  5 This directory would contains only two objects files: L CONFIG_INITTAB.OBJ and PYTHON.OBJ, which are the latest objects build by the procedure before linking.     P If you want to build a better install procedure, or better a kit, I will be very/ happy to include it into a new distribution :-)     O I am currently working on a new port of the forthcoming 2.3 version, which pass & nearly all the Python regession tests.      
 Jean-Franois      Alder wrote: >  > OpenVMS Alpha 7.2   > WASD 8.0 (with OPENSSL 0.9.6E)
 > DECC 6.5 > F > Thanks to the kind assistance of others in c.o.v I've managed to getJ > past the compiler issue and attempt a fresh build of Python 2.1.3.  It'sI > not the smoothest build, that's for sure.  Anyone else out there manage J > to build and install this latest release of Python for VMS yet?  I thinkF > I'm getting close to something usable, but have stalled at the point > shown below. > J > If anyone can tell why these messages are generated, please let us know!J >    The directory that is reported 'missing' by the build process is very > much where it should be. > 	 > Thanks,  > Alder  > : > $ @PYTHON_INSTALL DISK$NET:[PYLIB] DISK$NET:[PYTHON] 7.0 > .  > .  > . $ > Building WASD module (YES/NO) [Y]? > register _wasd > > > Building Python Library Imaging Library module (YES/NO) [Y]? > register _imaging  > ' > Building gdchart module (YES/NO) [Y]?  > register gdchart > J > %COPY-W-INCOMPAT, PYTHON_ROOT:[VMS]CONFIG_OPTIONAL_MODULES.TXT;7 (input)	 > and PYT B > HON_ROOT:[VMS]CONFIG.DAT;1 (output) have incompatible attributesH > %AMAC-F-OPENOUT, error opening PYTHON_ROOT:[VMS.O_ALPHA.VMS] as output! > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found $ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > $    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:01:19 -0500 % From: Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> 3 Subject: Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 < Message-ID: <mailman.1035208948.8837.python-list@python.org>  H     Alder> Thanks to the kind assistance of others in c.o.v I've manage= d toH     Alder> get past the compiler issue and attempt a fresh build of Pyt= hon H     Alder> 2.1.3.  It's not the smoothest build, that's for sure.  Anyo= neH     Alder> else out there manage to build and install this latest relea= se of F     Alder> Python for VMS yet?  I think I'm getting close to something=     Alder> usable, but have stalled at the point shown below.   H Have you been in contact with Jean-Fran=E7ois Pi=E9ronne?  He already p= orted @ 2.1.3 to OpenVMS.  Check out FAQ #7.4.  His code is available at        http://vmspython.dyndns.org/  H He's also working on mods for 2.3.  In any case, since he's been down t= his H path already, he's likely to be able to provide more assistance than us=   Windows, Unix, and Mac types.    --=20  Skip Montanaro - skip@pobox.com  http://www.mojam.com/  http://www.musi-cal.com/   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:43:02 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 3 Subject: Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 + Message-ID: <ap1aqm$kkc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   } In article <3DB404E4.AAED86E4@laposte.net>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?=	<jf.pieronne@laposte.net> writes: , >You can ignore the message %COPY-W-INCOMPAT > N >The directory PYTHON_ROOT:[VMS.O_ALPHA.VMS], initially empty, is created when >the Python saveset is restore. E >It was accidently remove from the latest distribution, sorry for the  >inconvenience. % >I will add it and rebuild a new kit.  >  I also get             gid_t grouplist[MAX_GROUPS]; ..............^ N %CC-W-ZEROELEMENTS1, In the declaration of "grouplist", zero cannot be used as a M n element count specifier.  It will be replaced with the constant one in this  co ntext.A at line number 2211 in file PYTHON_ROOT:[MODULES]POSIXMODULE.C;16    with  
 Alpha2:cc/ver ) Compaq C V6.5-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1      Which I assume I can ignore.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  G >You can, before build the last module, create manually this directory.  > 6 >This directory would contains only two objects files:M >CONFIG_INITTAB.OBJ and PYTHON.OBJ, which are the latest objects build by the  >procedure before linking. >  > Q >If you want to build a better install procedure, or better a kit, I will be very 0 >happy to include it into a new distribution :-) >  > P >I am currently working on a new port of the forthcoming 2.3 version, which pass' >nearly all the Python regession tests.  >  >  >  >Jean-Franois >  > 
 >Alder wrote:  >>   >> OpenVMS Alpha 7.2! >> WASD 8.0 (with OPENSSL 0.9.6E)  >> DECC 6.5  >>  G >> Thanks to the kind assistance of others in c.o.v I've managed to get K >> past the compiler issue and attempt a fresh build of Python 2.1.3.  It's J >> not the smoothest build, that's for sure.  Anyone else out there manageK >> to build and install this latest release of Python for VMS yet?  I think G >> I'm getting close to something usable, but have stalled at the point  >> shown below.  >>  K >> If anyone can tell why these messages are generated, please let us know! K >>    The directory that is reported 'missing' by the build process is very  >> much where it should be.  >>  
 >> Thanks, >> Alder >>  ; >> $ @PYTHON_INSTALL DISK$NET:[PYLIB] DISK$NET:[PYTHON] 7.0  >> . >> . >> .% >> Building WASD module (YES/NO) [Y]?  >> register _wasd  >>  ? >> Building Python Library Imaging Library module (YES/NO) [Y]?  >> register _imaging >>  ( >> Building gdchart module (YES/NO) [Y]? >> register gdchart  >>  K >> %COPY-W-INCOMPAT, PYTHON_ROOT:[VMS]CONFIG_OPTIONAL_MODULES.TXT;7 (input) 
 >> and PYTC >> HON_ROOT:[VMS]CONFIG.DAT;1 (output) have incompatible attributes I >> %AMAC-F-OPENOUT, error opening PYTHON_ROOT:[VMS.O_ALPHA.VMS] as output " >> -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found% >> -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file  >> $ >    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 10:31:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP3 Message-ID: <K9MbagQizZeu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <b096a4ee.0210201936.4b9ce627@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:   > DCL> DIREC A.B  /DATE  >   # > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FELDMAN]  >   ! > A.B;1              no such file  >    > Total of 1 file. > DCL> DIREC A.B  /TOTAL >   # > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FELDMAN]  >    > Total of 1 file. > DCL> SH SYM $STATUS  >   $STATUS == "%X00000001"  > DCL> DIREC A.B  /TOTAL/DATE  >   # > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FELDMAN]  >    > Total of 1 file. > DCL> SH SYM $STATUS  >   $STATUS == "%X00000001"  > DCL> > C > I don't see any difference between the outputs of DIREC/TOTAL and ; > DIREC/TOTAL/DATE. So how does it check for missing files?    Ok.  I was wrong.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 10:15:21 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) " Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0210210915.5fc5a679@posting.google.com>   s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0210190756.5080b2c2@posting.google.com>...  ... 
 > > > > >    <snips>   F > So, I argued that DURING THE RESTORE OPERATION, BACKUP would have toE > check THE ORIGINAL BACKUP COMMMAND, THE ONE USED TO CREATE THE SAVE E > SET IN THE FIRST PLACE, and look there to see if the ORIGINAL input G > specifier was a single file-spec, or, instead, a comma-separated list H > of file-specs. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARGUMENT OF THE /SELECTE > QUALIFIER EXCEPT THE FACT THAT SUCH ARGUMENT (the /SELECT qualifier F > argument) BE COMPLETE IN DIRECTORY, NAME, TYPE, AND POSSIBLY VERSION
 > NUMBER. OK?  > F > Now though it seems like a rather weird thing to do, BACKUP could beG > rewritten so as to have it analyze THE ORIGINAL BACKUP COMMAND, which F > IS stored IN THE SAVE SET. By examining THE ORIGINAL BACKUP COMMAND,F > it could determine whether the ORIGINAL input-specifier was a singleE > file-spec, or, instead, a comma-separated list of file-specs. If it D > found a comma-separated list, then BACKUP would definitely have toH > read the entire save set to be sure it didn't miss any matching files.G > So you would then think that if it found a single file-spec, it could B > just abort once it found and completely restored a match. Right? > G > NO! You'd be wrong. This is where I introduced the possibility of the F > input specifier being a search list. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE ORIGINALG > INPUT SPECIFIER, THE ONE USED TO ***CREATE*** THE SAVE SET, ***NOT*** 
 > RESTORE IT.  >  <snips>   > I understand that you are saying you could check the original = command to see if there are conflicts with a restore command, : but that other than with an image backup it would probably< not be possible to resolve all ambiguities. I agree. I don't= think backup should make that decision. I think backup should : follow the operators command instructions exactly. I would< agree that the original command should be considered in one  way, though.  @ If I backup file ABCD.EFG to save_set A and then try to restore = file BCDE.FGH from that save_set, backup will read the whole  = tape and terminate without finding the file. I screwed up my  # command, but backup gave it the go.   > Maybe it should have looked at the original backup command and= determined that I couldn't restore BCDE.FGH from the original < "backup abcd.efg $tape1:a/save_set" and if so, that would be; great. That is specific and unambiguous and should probably ; give me an error message now. If my backup command is less  = specific the tape must be searched to find the file, just as   you've said.  @ However, if I tell it to get one or more specific files then it @ should terminate once it's done it. It just needs to follow the B exact instructions I give it. If there are more files on the tape C that I want then I'll tell it by correctly constructing my command  < with wildcarded or defaulted or listed input file selection.  ? The CLI's "job" is to follow a command's intruction exactly and B consistently. (Actually, of course, it's the procedure behind the B CLI, but CLI here for brevity) The operator's "job" is to provide A the CLI with correct instructions. The operator might not always  # do a good job, but the CLI should.    : If the operator screws up and copies multiple conflicting ? directories and/or files to a save_set, then the operator must  ? construct the proper set of restore procedures to recover them. B *** They cannot be recovered correctly with one simple command.***  B The arguement that we must read the whole save_set because someone> might have screwed up and copied multiple conflicting entities= isn't sound because no mechanisim has been provided in backup # to properly recover those entities.   B A perfect system would not let the operator do the wrong thing in C the first place. However, that being said, as long as the operator  A is allowed and the command is valid it is the system's "duty" to   execute the command.  ? No argument yet made has convinced me that ending backup after  > a complete file-spec is processed is inconsistent with the way= everything else works. So, that's the way backup should work.   	 ><snips>  F > OK. But be sure not to leave any possibility of missing any matching > files! >   G That, of course, would be my job as operator to enter a proper command, ( and trust backup to follow that command.    DL Phillips@  <Sorry if my snips dropped context. That was not my intention.>   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:11:23 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)F Subject: Current storage interconnect options, and new gigabit option?= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0210210711.58b2249b@posting.google.com>   A One of our customers is looking at upgrading his current two-node C Alphacluster (Alphaserver 1000a 5/400s) using dual KZPSA FWD busses A with a BA350 series tower on each bus, memory channel, and volume 
 shadowing.  D We're looking at a pair of DS10s.  The HSZ70/80 raid controllers areD not in the price range (assuming new equipment to get the warranty);C neither is fiber channel, so dual shelves equivalent to the current F arrangement are more likely.  The HSZ22-based controllers are possibleC but their EOL was written up last year and I don't want to hook the < customer up with items for which support is going away soon.  F Based on recent posts, it sounds like nothing newer than the KZPBA UWDE controller has been qualified for shared bus usage; rather depressing C considering the speed and capacity of the new LVD shelves.  Is this  still the situation?  B Also based on some posts apparently coming out of the recent Decus; (yeah, whatever they call it) event, the new 'fast' cluster E interconnect is supposed to be a new gigabit ethernet card coming out B soon, as opposed to memory channel.  Even assuming that the memoryA channel hardware he has could be moved (we're checking, but it is F first generation MC so I doubt it) we'd prefer to go with new hardwareA (again, maintenance and presumed reliability).  Is there any info & available online for the new card yet?  C In lieue of a newer/faster SCSI storage interconnect adapter, we're C looking at two DS10s, two BA356 series shelves with UWD personality C modules, identical disks in each shelf, two KZPBA UWD adapters with B shadowing across the busses, and the gigabit card with a crossoverC cable (or equivalent) used exclusively as the cluster interconnect; ; the built in 100Base-T will do for the network connections.    Thanks for any info.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:21:38 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)1$ Subject: Re: Dell retakes #1 PC spot3 Message-ID: <AXm4Vidimqkw@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  \ In article <3DB0573E.240C9371@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  P > One question I have is whether HP sees the incorporation of True64 features inN > HP-UX as a necessary evil to try to keep Tru64 customers, or whether it sees > this as a real asset.S  G   HP has long said that VMS clustering is the model everyone else needsgG   to persue.  By getting Tru64, they've already had someone else do thes6   port to a UNIX kernel for them.  Nice asset to have.    i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:08:03 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyC$ Subject: Re: Dell retakes #1 PC spot. Message-ID: <3DB40A43.8070802@nospamn.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:4 > "Arne Vajh=F8j" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message% > news:3DB054FF.6050102@vajhoej.dk...e >=20 >>JF Mezei wrote:g >> >>D >>>Not quite VMS related, but does outline how merger promises don't >> > generally  >=20
 >>>pan out...p >> >>E >>>HOUSTON -- Dell Computer Corp. (DELL) regained its standing as thea >>	 > world's  >=20J >>>largest personal-computer maker just two quarters after losing the cro= wn >> > to >=20D >>>Hewlett-Packard Co. according to a newly released market-research >>	 > report.q >=20E >>>In the quarter ended Sept. 30, Dell, of Austin, Texas, shipped 5.2p >>
 > million PCs  >=20C >>>to H-P's 5.0 million PCs to retake the crown, according to a newh >> > estimate from  >=20. >>>International Data Corp., Framingham, Mass. >>5 >>You can conclude that HP may not have got what theya >>thougth they bougth. >>6 >>But you could also interpret as if Compaq would have. >>been in big big problems without the merger. >=20 >=20J > Or you could interpret it as the logical result of merging two troubled=  J > companies both run by incompetents.  About the best argument against th= e J > merger was that without it said incompetents would have gotten the boot=  H > (yielding at least the hope of improved leadership) instead of gettingJ > another couple of years to continuing destroying the combined enterpris= e. >=20  4 It has been described as a slow motion smash between/ two garbage trucks (not by me I hasten to add).p   regardsf Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:16:17 +0000 (UTC)(' From: John W <johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk>O Subject: Re: ECU* Message-ID: <3DB3E22A.8070700@yahoo.co.uk>  G Just in case your software call takes a while... after all, this might 2 be hardware really...i  I The ECU was (is?) commercial software from "Micro Computer Systems, Inc" -G (MCS?). Once you know that, a quick Google for ECU and "Micro Computer n@ Systems" apparently confirms that it isn't freely available for : download, and may provide other useful background for you.  H If you or an associate has access to Alpha VMS OS distribution CDs, you H may already have an ECU floppy hidden somewhere; I *think* they used to E come associated with the firmware updates CDs. Unfortunately I don't r) have any handy to check part numbers etc.c  H A Tru64 or even NT/Alpha ECU reportedly contains the same executable as G the VMS ECU but different config files. I believe the config files are  + freely distributable, if that helps at all.j   regardsr john   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 07:39:01 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)J Subject: GNV: BASH questions and source code location ?, Was: Re: $ RECALL3 Message-ID: <WVbA0e60Np$P@eisner.encompasserve.org>'  c In article <r+TC04NMJmxC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:ey > In article <01KNP9L9KN0G9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:i >   C [I have now had chance to try the following options. Thanks for the-" suggestions. Experiences below...]   > H >> IIRC, the NEWSRDR programme can do this.  It has a SPAWN command, so 1 >> just fire it up and use that as your CLI.  :-)K >   I I tried this with the Eisner version. The spawn command just drops to DCLsD so that (for example) pressing left arrow at the start of the second2 line will not backup to the end of the first line.  E [It does mean however that I don't have to try and explain to my boss1H that I want to run a newsreader during working hours to allow me to edit long command lines... :-)]  - > So does BASH, as demonstrated in St. Louis."  G Now this is much more promising. You can indeed edit long command linessG that are issued inside of BASH. However, I have encountered a number oftE problems due to the fact that BASH is trying to interpret the commandt line before passing it to DCL.  I Is there anyway to get BASH to pass the command line through to DCL firstaJ without BASH trying to expand it, and only have BASH interpret the command line if DCL fails to parse it ?a   --------------M Problems that I have encountered with BASH processing the command line first:n   bash$ del [-]j.j;*/lo1? %DELETE-E-DELVER, explicit version number or wild card required 1 bash.exe.1: */lo: file specification syntax error    Can't abbreviate show to sh;  
 bash$ sh termi% term: term: no such file or directory  bash$ sho term> Terminal: _TNA2:      Device_Type: VT400_Series  Owner: _TNA2:  D set <junk> doesn't give an error message; you have to uppercase SET.  ' HELP needs uppercasing to run DCL HELP.  --------------  J I cannot find the GNV source code at the sourceforge site and I can't findE any VMS specific changes or building support in the latest version ofe' readline available at the FSF web site.:  G I hereby _good naturedly_ assert my GPL source code rights; I can put a>! readline on VMS to very good use.    Simon.   -- sB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:03:45 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>iN Subject: Re: GNV: BASH questions and source code location ?, Was: Re: $ RECALL; Message-ID: <01KNXIRT6NZK9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   I > > IIRC, the NEWSRDR programme can do this.  It has a SPAWN command, so  2 > > just fire it up and use that as your CLI.  :-) > K > I tried this with the Eisner version. The spawn command just drops to DCLnF > so that (for example) pressing left arrow at the start of the second4 > line will not backup to the end of the first line.  % Without an argument, yes.  What aboute  C    NEWSRDR> SPAWN <long command which wraps at the end of the line d,             inserted here for test purposes>  G This should do the command and bring you back to the NEWSRDR> prompt.  eF What happens with UP-ARROW, LEFT-ARROW (hold until beginning of line)  now?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:55:31 +0100)' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!. Message-ID: <3DB3DD23.4050707@nospamn.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message' > <3DAFDBF4.7090400@nospamn.sun.com>...c > ' >>Which Fred are we talking about here.n >> >  > I > Andy, I get a kick out of you.  I just couldn't resist taking the poll.48 > Your response is all that I've come to love about you.  + Really so you like responses that point outK& where you have messed up, interesting.  2 I would hate to see your basementassuming you have one :-) :-)   N > BTW, don't worry about the quarterly loss, and the layoffs.  Unlike the rest# > of us, Sun is strong and growing.e >   . Ahh a missive from Fred the Financial analyst.  / Wait until the middle of next month thse may be + words that you may well come to regret. :-)u  8 BTW don't be bashfull if you don't know the significance of the middle of November.   Regards  Andrew Harrisons   >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:09:31 +0100a' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy @ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!. Message-ID: <3DB3E06B.6060600@nospamn.sun.com>   Shane Smith wrote:H > Agreed. Still, I have to admit the thought of Andy reading through all: > the "Andy is a moron" votes is strangely pleasing... ;-) >   , Sorry to dissapoint you but Freddys immature. poll caused me to laugh when I saw it and I am  still laughing at the responses.  - It confirms that when stuck for response Fredo* will alway resort to abuse or in this case abuse and incitement to abuse.  * Or didn't you notice Freds total lack of a+ response apart from the "poll", sad really.   / Doesn't say very much for the people who jumpedi at the chance either.M  
 Sad again.   Regardse Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:10:56 -0500o& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!8 Message-ID: <8n98rucv6akne77i000eamv2qfkjun5gvo@4ax.com>  = He's just pathological.  There's no reasoning, only laughter.o  E On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:09:31 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyS. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >  >i >Shane Smith wrote:UI >> Agreed. Still, I have to admit the thought of Andy reading through allo; >> the "Andy is a moron" votes is strangely pleasing... ;-)w >> a >,- >Sorry to dissapoint you but Freddys immaturee/ >poll caused me to laugh when I saw it and I am ! >still laughing at the responses.  >h. >It confirms that when stuck for response Fred+ >will alway resort to abuse or in this casen >abuse and incitement to abuse.o >h+ >Or didn't you notice Freds total lack of a , >response apart from the "poll", sad really. > 0 >Doesn't say very much for the people who jumped >at the chance either. >  >Sad again.L >e >Regards >Andrew Harrison   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:28:53 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!2 Message-ID: <pPWs9.34$6Q7.684201@news.cpqcorp.net>  2 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message% <3DB3DD23.4050707@nospamn.sun.com>...e >  >  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:r5 >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in messageo( >> <3DAFDBF4.7090400@nospamn.sun.com>... >>( >>>Which Fred are we talking about here. >>>n >> >>J >> Andy, I get a kick out of you.  I just couldn't resist taking the poll.9 >> Your response is all that I've come to love about you.l > , >Really so you like responses that point out' >where you have messed up, interesting.  >w3 >I would hate to see your basementassuming you have  >one :-) :-) >M   Messed up?  Eh?s  < Huh?  You want to see my basement?  You some kind of wierdo?  J >> BTW, don't worry about the quarterly loss, and the layoffs.  Unlike the rest$ >> of us, Sun is strong and growing. >> >a/ >Ahh a missive from Fred the Financial analyst.s > 0 >Wait until the middle of next month thse may be, >words that you may well come to regret. :-) >e  L Why?  Will a bad quarter from HP somehow undo yours?  I've been consistantlyJ saying the industry is in a slump.  You've been trying to tell us that SunL is the exception.  Of course, after you've been show wrong, even by your ownA managements words, you seem to have stopped that particular spin.h  9 >BTW don't be bashfull if you don't know the significanceb >of the middle of November.n >g  C Hey, I expect a lousy quarter based on what everyone else is having J (management doesn't communicate financials to me, so I don't know that for sure).  J I expect layoff.  I expect very bad things.  I expect them for pretty much the entire industry.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:32:47 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)B9 Subject: Re: installing the Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Java$3 Message-ID: <boojV1X4X5Fi@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  Y In article <newscache$de574h$6gd$1@news.tiscali.fr>, DTL <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:T4 > I copied the "Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Java" from 7 > http://www.adobe.com/products/acrviewer/acrvdnld.htmlt > and installed it., >  > Did not find the howto.D >  > So, I did: >  > DTL02> java LAUNIXGC.SH  >   H    What's a SH file?  If you have the .jar file you need to do something    like:  J    $define classpath "/disk/dir/acrobat.jar:/disk/dir/MRJToolkitStubs.zip"5    $java -mx32m "com.adobe.acrobat.Viewer" <pdf file>c  H    I still haven't figured out why you need Apple's MRJToolkitStubs.zip,/    but you'll get a class not found without it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:13:34 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>a) Subject: Re: java on VMS - help requesteda) Message-ID: <3DB39B0E.7254661D@gtech.com>-   John McLean wrote: > > Which servlet container ?- > F > Huh ?  I didn't know there was such a thing.  I assumed that WASD orJ > Apache manuals would tell me how to integrate java servlets and that was > all I would need.C  1 Be prepared for that JSP/servlets are a big area.C  3 A JSP/servlet container is the server software that, actuallt runs JSP and servlets.B  % It is not like CGI where it is run byl the web-server.-  , A JSP/servlet container is a piece of server1 software that runs independently. Usually written 
 100% in Java.D  / Traditionally it can be interfaces in two ways:T8 1)  It has a builtin HTTP-server usually running on port5     8080 - if you use that, then you do not even needC     a real web-server.  ; 2)  There exist such a thing called a AJP connector. AJP is ?     a protocol for communicatring between a real web-server andA=     a JSP/servlet container. If ypu use that then you connect,=     to port 80 on the web-server, the web-server based on thed7     URL-mapping uses the AJP protocol to connect to thei;     JSP/servelet container. AJP is invented by Apache so itl;     ofcourse has it. Tomcat 3.x support AJP 1.2 (port 8007)r=     while Tomcat 4.x (=Catalina) support AJP 1.3 (port 8009).-=     I think WASD support at least AJP 1.2. OSU unfortunatetlyE     does not support AJP.   A Several JSP/servlets containers exist. And some of them are known- to work on VMS.t  = Tomcat from Apache Jakarta is by far the most widely used. It < is often important to distingush between version 3.x and 4.x% (the later is often called Catalina).d  3 You can download Tomcat youself and get it to work.w  6 You can get CSWS_JAVA kit which I believe is currently Tomcat 3.x.r  8 You can get f.ex. JBoss with Tomcat 4.x (which is what I5 use on VMS, because I use the EJB container as well).U  : Both BEA WebLogic and Oracle 9iAS comes with a JSP/servlet: container. It may or it may not be Tomcat (I do not know).  5 Be aware that that there are a lot more functionalitya2 in JSP/servlets than just a simple replacement for# SSI (server side includes) and CGI.U  < Just to mention one important thing: the container maintains= session state. If you "approve" a session, then the containert9 keeps track of the session (via cookies or URL rewriting)d< for you. When a new request arrives, then you can just check< if it is an existing session. You can also store arbitrarily9 data objects in the session and access it when processing : later requests. But the important think is that you do not need to code it.  B > > When you say "web application" do you specifically mean a J2EE@ > > web-application as in a war-file or do you use the term more > > generally. > G > I'm using the term generally to mean an application that displays the!F > client part via a web browser and a server part that runs on the web	 > server.    OK.   = In the J2EE-world a web-application is a war-file. A war-file-> is just a jar-file (created by the jar-utility) that contains:
   - JSP pages   - servlet class files C   - a web.xml file describing the URL's to access the servelst withn2   - JAR files with code used by JSP's and servlets  : You create such a beast and deploy it into the JSP/servlet container and it is available.  > And for the free software deploy means copy the war-file. Many5 commercial products has some horrible GUI's to do it.   ? > > You will need to use JNI to do that. Java as being platformT> > > independent does not know about VMS index-sequential file.: > > Use JNI to call C code. Or use JNI to call C code that' > > call your code in another language.  > H > As I understand it, the JNI spawns a VMS process in order to execute aC > command procedure.  (Okay, software in C can be handled directly,lJ > presumably by LIB routine LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL.).  Now when the spawnedE > process finishes its activity, I assume that it is terminated, thus G > removing the current definitions of logical names and global symbolsFE > Please correct me if I am wrong about this because I think it is my- > major obstacle.- > @ > Multi-step tasks would require that the context of the task beJ > re-created when the next step was to be processed and re-creation of the' > context is difficult and inefficient.8  ? When you use JNI you simply call routines in a shareable image.    In that sense JNI never spawns.   A So if your functionality is in code you just link the JNI wrapperIC C code with your coide (that does not need to be in C). And it gets  called without any subprocess.  > DCL is ofcourse a problem because callable DCL does not exist.  : So yes for DCL you will probably let your JNI C code spawn a sub-process.  A > > Have you looked at the Bridgeworks product. It is free. It is ? > > from Compaq (now HP). And it makes accessing DCL procedures  > > from Java a piece of cake. > I > I've just tried looking at it but the documentation for it is terrible.cE > The web pages are fixed width (by some auto-generating tool ?) at aBI > width suitable for US Letter size paper - and that means a loss of text I > on the right-hand size of the page when one uses international A4 papermF > size (as does a large part of the world).  I tried modifying a localJ > copy of the FAQ webpage but that took a couple of hours and when I could7 > sit down and stuy it, it didn't really tell me much !0 > @ > Where's the introductory manual with plenty of examples ?  TheH > Bridgework Wizard contains some of information but it looks like thereJ > are very few examples and I hope those pages don't have the same problem > if I try to print them.E   This it what Bridgeworks does:   - you start a GUI%-   - you select the COM-files you want to callVC   - Bridgeworks generates Java code and C code (where the Java codet	 calls the.     C code via JNI)eC   - you build the generated code on the client (VMS/Windows) and oni     the server (VMS)2   - your code simple calls the generated Java code   - at runtime5        . your Java code calls the generated Java codetH        . the generated Java code uses JNI to call the generated client C code          (shareable image /DLL)e?        . the generated client C code connects to the DCE serveroD        . the DCE server starts the image generated from the server C code2        . the server C code activates your COM-file  $ Ofcourse there are overhead in this.  3 But it is actually not that bad - I have tested it.  > And it does all the work, you tell it the name of the COM-file= and it generates all the code, so you can "call" the COM-filec
 from Java.  B > > Accessing command procedures is easy with Bridgeworks. Without > > it will be a bigger task.t > J > I might be interested if I could find out how to use it.  The problem isI > that there is a shortage of any real introduction to tell me what it is J > capable of.  It looks like I have to obtain a copy of the software and aG > temporary license just so that I can see what it does and how it doeseI > it.  I can find no visible links to the SPD anywhere on the Bridgeworksd > pages  @ Note that Bridgeworks is free ! So Bridgeworks is not a problem.  7 Bridgeworks uses DCE, but I believe that DCE runtime is  covered by the VMS license.S  ; There are one license/software problem: to build the server 7 software you need an IDL compiler, which is part of the_8 DCE development kit. And for that you need a license and a kit.  A And it is not exactly the most common software around. Be warned.D   Arne   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:01:08 +0000 (UTC)t, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)) Subject: Re: java on VMS - help requestedS. Message-ID: <ap18c4$bgc$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes in article <3DB2A59A.1D97F207@swissonline.delete.ch> dated Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:46:18 +0200: >and Keith said =85eK >> It's not Java that must spawn a new process.  Maybe it's your web serve=p >r?. >>G >As I understand it, the JNI spawns a VMS process in order to execute ag >command procedure.  t  G I get it now.  Yes, if you want to "call" DCL from JNI you will have to>K use some sort of C function or system service which creates a process.  You>F can call C from Java and any standard compiled language from C without creating a subprocess.  J I only know a little about servlets, so I could be wrong here, but I thinkK you can store a Properties (or any other) object in a session without doing7J a write/read cycle on a serial file.  That's why you want a servlet ratherK than a CGI script with a "java" command in the middle.  A Properties object L would be superior to DCL symbols here because you aren't guaranteed of a 1-1L mapping between servlet sessions and native VMS processes.  (I can't see how: 1-many would work, but many-1 would be easy to implement.)  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orga> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:00:55 +0100j' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyM Subject: Re: Life after VMS?. Message-ID: <3DB3DE67.5060104@nospamn.sun.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:Y > In article <3DAFBEA4.3265F09F@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:n >  >>JF Mezei wrote:- >> >>../..  >>N >>>There may be some hope, but it is still too early to tell whether those areK >>>just token actions to appease the VMS bigots and protect those importantiO >>>revenus during a financially hard period at HP, or whether it is a true long P >>>term attitude change. Since Carly isn't likely to make a big splash about VMSM >>>in public, then only time will tell if this is just s temporary thing or a # >>>true, permanent attitude change.r >>F >>Again, the "true, permanent attitude change" will be demonstrated byP >>advertising. As soon as HP starts spending money (and big money) in VMS ads orO >>other promotion to others than VMS gurus, we can think that there is a "true,M >>permanent attitude change".i >  > C > Perhaps I don't get out enough, but I don't recall seeing ads for " > HP-UX (or MVS, for that matter).  < I don't recall seing an MVS ad but IBM have been advertising! Z-Series which in effect run MVS.o   Regardsd Andrew Harrisonu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 02:42:54 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n Subject: Mailbox securityu, Message-ID: <3DB3A1DF.A452BBDE@videotron.ca>  J I have a detached process. It creates a mailbox that receives some controlL commands (such as shutdown, restart etc). Eventually, it should also receive7 some additional transactions from non-privileged users.>  N This has worked fine for me over the years. However, in trying to productize aK version of this (probably going to freeware), i'd like some input on how to39 make this more acceptable from a security point of view ?o  M Obvioulsy, the goal is to prevent any user from sending a "SHUTDOWN" command.oK (especially since a mailbox message does not contain some idendification ofl who sent the message).  N One solution is to require that some application password be included with the management commands.  C Are there other solutions/methods that have been succesfully used ?>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:42:53 +0500I4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> Subject: Re: Mailbox securityd5 Message-ID: <13716879087.20021021124253@ncc.volga.ru>n  < On 21.10.2002 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  L > I have a detached process. It creates a mailbox that receives some controlN > commands (such as shutdown, restart etc). Eventually, it should also receive9 > some additional transactions from non-privileged users.h  P > This has worked fine for me over the years. However, in trying to productize aM > version of this (probably going to freeware), i'd like some input on how toL; > make this more acceptable from a security point of view ?   O > Obvioulsy, the goal is to prevent any user from sending a "SHUTDOWN" command. M > (especially since a mailbox message does not contain some idendification ofr > who sent the message).  >  It does contain PID of the sender IIRC somewhere in the IOSB.   -- l
 Best regards,w#  Valentin                             valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ruF   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:10:40 -0400.2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> Subject: Re: Mailbox securitya) Message-ID: <3DB3FCD0.6080003@oracle.com>S   JF Mezei wrote:1L > I have a detached process. It creates a mailbox that receives some controlN > commands (such as shutdown, restart etc). Eventually, it should also receive9 > some additional transactions from non-privileged users.u > P > This has worked fine for me over the years. However, in trying to productize aM > version of this (probably going to freeware), i'd like some input on how to1; > make this more acceptable from a security point of view ?R > O > Obvioulsy, the goal is to prevent any user from sending a "SHUTDOWN" command.mM > (especially since a mailbox message does not contain some idendification of0 > who sent the message).  A 	well actually the PID of the sending process is in the IOSB, but C you probably already knew that.  what other identification were youN
 imagining?   > P > One solution is to require that some application password be included with the > management commands. > E > Are there other solutions/methods that have been succesfully used ?      -- -> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:08:49 -0500r' From: Shawn <shawnm@cotepe.carenet.org>Y  Subject: Monitor System Question8 Message-ID: <5ar7ru0he1mqupfo8f80mbo4gm0c9dkou5@4ax.com>  C Hi all, I am looking at a Vax system running 6.2:  I was wanting toIE see if I could get some clarification on what I am seeing when I lookH& at the system through Monitor System:    Looking at say e  F Buffered I/O Rate, the number to the right in the Middle Reads 150, isC this what the celing is for the Process is before it begins to do a  Buffer I/O?o   Thanks,e   Shawno   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:19:28 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>$ Subject: Re: Monitor System Question, Message-ID: <ap0rch$1q46@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  4 "Shawn" <shawnm@cotepe.carenet.org> wrote in message2 news:5ar7ru0he1mqupfo8f80mbo4gm0c9dkou5@4ax.com...   > Looking at say >IH > Buffered I/O Rate, the number to the right in the Middle Reads 150, isE > this what the celing is for the Process is before it begins to do as
 > Buffer I/O?r  U It's just the scaling of the bar on the graph. If it displays a full bar it's showingoN 150 BufferedIO/sec. That's a fairly arbitrary choice of what 'a lot of IO' is.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:00:31 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>c$ Subject: Re: Monitor System Question; Message-ID: <01KNXIP5KJCQ9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > > Buffered I/O Rate, the number to the right in the Middle Reads 150, isG > > this what the celing is for the Process is before it begins to do aa > > Buffer I/O?o > J > It's just the scaling of the bar on the graph. If it displays a full barF > it's showing 150 BufferedIO/sec. That's a fairly arbitrary choice of > what 'a lot of IO' is. B  8 Right.  On some systems, it's 500 instead of 150.  :-)    E The memory display has units;; the others don't.  The units in these  E cases are all pure numbers, except for CPU, which is per cent.  Note  5 that the maximum scales with the number of CPUs.  :-)f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:11:59 -0400e' From: "Ung Ho Yi" <yi-1@medctr.osu.edu>c3 Subject: Re: MSL5026DLX Library Performance Problemn: Message-ID: <ap0uf7$32v$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   Hello,  I it look like my problem was not using large block size.  This was causingr7 the tape drive to wait for small wries to come through.j   Thanks,o yi    2 "Ung Ho Yi" <yi-1@medctr.osu.edu> wrote in message4 news:aopnqo$f05$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu... > Hello, > J > we installed MSL5026DLX Library and connected it to an Alpha4100 running VMSn > 7.2-1.7 > Our through put is very low.  It's slower then TZ877.l > I > Any help would be appreciated regarding our MSL5026DLX Library problem.  >/	 > Thanks,  > yi >t >h >t >o >a >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:16:55 +0100*( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: New User/Owner VMS question) Message-ID: <3DB3D417.3FC07859@127.0.0.1>s   Tom Linden wrote:r > > > I thought I saw a nore a while back to the effect that 7.3-14 > was the last VAX version.  Must have got it wrong.  G Perhaps you saw the last to be shipped on TK50 (well 7.3 accurately, on  VAX).w   -- i? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:43:05 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: New User/Owner VMS question3 Message-ID: <R2Sj1XmMBEoa@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  [ In article <I0hs9.10186$Hj7.3270@rwcrnsc53>, "Kavok Ketras" <KavokKetras@attbi.com> writes: N > Hello all. I will be the new owner of a VAX/VMS system. I ordered a VAX 3100J > off of Ebay. I assume that all 3100 models belong to the MicroVax class, > yes?      Yep.m  ( > I looked through the Hobbyist Guide atN > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/vax_kit.pdf, and is installation as easy asJ > that? Its setup will go through and partition the hard drive, name it as@ > DKA0: (or whatever) and then install the VMS operating system?  F    Yes, it really is that easy.  But VMS does not use disk partitions.  J > I come from a PC background and know Fdisk, format, and can I apply thatL > knowledge as an analogy for setting up the VAX disk? I mean, are VAX disks1 > inherently the same (having a partition, etc.)?w  A    No partitions.  The install will use BACKUP to create the filee3    system, which also could be done via INITIALIZE.t  K > Is there a very good link/faq for first-time VAX owners in setting up VAX  > system for first time ever?o  F    Do go get the FAQ from www.openvms.compac.com.  Do follow the linksE    to the documentation for system managers.  Most of the VMS doc sets<    from the vendor assumes you don't know what you're doing.  G > Also the hobbyist site at Montgar seems to be sold out of OpenVMS VAXlI > Hobbyist Kit. I don't see any on Ebay. Does anyone have a suggestion ona > where to buy a copy?  ?    Anywhere you can get one.  You can also get or borrow a reala@    distribution kit.  The lack of kits at Montagar is becoming aD    sore point but I expect their waiting to put a newer kit together    before they stamp out more.  H > Also, I noticed that Encompass (the old DECUS) now charges $90 to be aJ > member. All I want to do is occasionally play with this at home, I don'tK > really have the time to attend conventions, that type of thing. I hope byeM > just being Associate (which is free) is good enough. Am I being naive here?n  .    An Associate is good enough for a hobbyist.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:46:25 -0700s$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>( Subject: RE: New User/Owner VMS question0 Message-ID: <01C278EF.30184910@sulfer.icius.com>  H I personally find Hyperterm within a hair of useless. Go find a piece of+ freeware called TeraTerm, it's much better.1   Shanew   -----Original Message-----* From: Echoes [mailto:echoes@somewhere.com]' Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 12:14 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come( Subject: Re: New User/Owner VMS question      . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:9cAs9.24690$Q3S.20388@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >o <snipJ >eJ > IIRC, the 3100 has a thinwire and thickwire ethernet port, but not a nowK > standard UTP RJ-45 type jack. It has a DEC MMJ jack for a VT-xxx or otheriI > DEC gear. In order to connect a PC with a 'normal' ethernet card to thetG > thin/thick wire port, you will need a transceiver that converts to ane RJ-45 
 > style jack.g >i  ( If I'm understanding all this correctly:  G  Get a MMJ to serial port null modem cable if I want to attach directly- to< my PC if I don't want to buy a DEC monitor, and download the
 HyperTerminalwF Private Edition (or get comparable product). Of course, I have to have free serial port on PC.   or  2  Get a MMJ cable to attach from VAX to DEC monitor   or  G I asume your comment on PC with ethernet and RJ-45 wasn't about monitorF- connection but more about general networking?d     Kavoko   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 12:05:54 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)D# Subject: OpenVMS is still strategic>3 Message-ID: <Ox5fsh7j3BZC@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  X In article <3DB41772.4010103@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > - > So you now claim no awareness of the threadt( > in which my post exists ! Perhaps your+ > newsreader doesn't support threading. Now ( > thats and explanation (possibly).      >   H    I never said that.  Since I've already posted that I'm usnig ANU newsG    we know I have a thread following news reader.  We also know from myP(    posts that I don't read all the junk.  H    Hm, folks I must have been pushing too many of Andrews buttons at theD    same time.  He's gotten to where he can't write straight.  We all?    know he meant to say "Now that's an explanation (possibly)."   >    You know there's more than one way to have fun with usenet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:42:03 +0100n' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyp! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategicf. Message-ID: <3DB3E80B.3010402@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DAFF681.5000209@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  > @ >>Your response had nothing to do with the topic being discussedE >>namely the likely effectiveness of the just expired Sun/IBM buybackU7 >>campaign in woing Sun and IBM customers onto OpenVMS.R >  > F >    No, of course not.  Since the topic being discussed was worthlessI >    noise, I just picked out the one semi-intelligent issue and answeredh >    it. >    Ohh good so:  
 Terry Shannon 
 John Smith
 Tim LlewellynM JF Mezei Aren Vajhojt	 Bill Toddo
 Alan Greig
 Alant Schmidtp Paul Repacholi
 Simon Clubleyf Larry Kilgallent Bill Gunshannon  John Santosd Lorraine Profeta Jerry Leslie Kerry Maine   0 Have all been producing worthless noise and only+ Bob you are not worthy to walk in my shadowe. Koehler has injected a modicum of intelligence* into the discussion. (If I left anyone out I do apologise).  * Alternatively you just got a bit off topic' in a sad spinning attempt which is it ?p   Regardsr Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:51:58 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategic 3 Message-ID: <pSgkgc5I1g79@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  X In article <3DB3E80B.3010402@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 2 > Have all been producing worthless noise and only- > Bob you are not worthy to walk in my shadown0 > Koehler has injected a modicum of intelligence, > into the discussion. (If I left anyone out > I do apologise).       We were discussing YOUR post.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:04:18 +0100h' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS is strategici. Message-ID: <3DB41772.4010103@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DB3E80B.3010402@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 2 >>Have all been producing worthless noise and only- >>Bob you are not worthy to walk in my shadow 0 >>Koehler has injected a modicum of intelligence, >>into the discussion. (If I left anyone out >>I do apologise). >  > " >    We were discussing YOUR post. >   + So you now claim no awareness of the threadn& in which my post exists ! Perhaps your) newsreader doesn't support threading. Now.! thats and explanation (possibly).t     regardsL Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:57:43 +0100i' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL. Message-ID: <3DB3DDA7.2010503@nospamn.sun.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Paul Repacholi wrote:  > * >>Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> writes: >> >>E >>>On Alpha V7.3-1, there's a new GETJPI code for the parent process:e >>. >>>  $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","CREATOR") >>>     20602D44 >>/ >>But are we not talking of DETACHED processes?t >>1 >>And why, pray tell, do we call them `detached'?t >  > C > From memory, there once was a way (in other operating systems) tosG > "detach" a process from it's controlling terminal; that is, convert am3 > "foreground" process into a "background" process.l >   0 ctrl-Z in csh on most UNIX's followed by fg, bg.     regardsd Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:16:11 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL3 Message-ID: <npqWRmmTuM7g@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3DB3DDA7.2010503@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 2 > ctrl-Z in csh on most UNIX's followed by fg, bg. >   C    Works on most UNIX shells, not just csh.  Probably works on mostvB    of the shell ports to other platforms, not just UNIX.  But does7    not create the equivalent of a VMS detached process.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:25:53 +0100 (MET)u9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL; Message-ID: <01KNXJFG726E9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h  2 > ctrl-Z in csh on most UNIX's followed by fg, bg. > E >    Works on most UNIX shells, not just csh.  Probably works on most D >    of the shell ports to other platforms, not just UNIX.  But does9 >    not create the equivalent of a VMS detached process.h   In my limited experience,k      prompt> & <command>   is equivalent to      prompt> command    <command output>     ^Zl
    prompt> bgc  I The ^Z puts it in the "background" and the bg command starts it actually >I running again (the "bg" command takes an argument in case there are more e7 jobs in the background; the "jobs" command lists them).n   It appears that       $  SPAWN/NOWAIT/INPUT=NL:   is the equivalent of 0      prompt> & command  @ Of course, SPAWN creates a SUBPROCESS on VMS.  I think that the H background jobs on unix by default die when the parent dies, but with a H "nohangup" command or something like that can behave more like detached 
 processes.  + Presumably, this worked on VMS under POSIX.   G The feature IS useful: one can run a program interactively, enter some k; input, then shove it into the background when it goes into r shut-up-and-calculate mode.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:06:07 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyl4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL. Message-ID: <3DB409CF.6020309@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DB3DDA7.2010503@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 2 >>ctrl-Z in csh on most UNIX's followed by fg, bg. >> >  > E >    Works on most UNIX shells, not just csh.  Probably works on most D >    of the shell ports to other platforms, not just UNIX.  But does9 >    not create the equivalent of a VMS detached process.- >   F It doesn't work for sh by default, it does for ksh, bash and jsh which% is an extension to sh as well as csh.   ? Of course if you want to follow the analogy through to its most0% extreme conclusion then get a SunRay.r  ? It gives you a detached x-windows session. Take your smart cardt< out and the session keyed to the card keeps running, screens; get updated etc, put the card back in again and the session  re-appears.e   regardsh Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 12:00:53 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL3 Message-ID: <L3IMQFRQoJg+@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  X In article <3DB409CF.6020309@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > A > It gives you a detached x-windows session. Take your smart card-> > out and the session keyed to the card keeps running, screens= > get updated etc, put the card back in again and the session 
 > re-appears.o  8    Get real.  Every X terminal I've ever seen does that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:18:07 -0500 4 From: "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> Subject: PCL image? Message-ID: <EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE04EF5FA7@AMCLVX11>   J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ; ------=_NextPartTM-000-17069a34-e4c7-11d6-b789-0002a58abbf5F$ Content-Type: multipart/alternative;1 	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C278FB.E9B84AA4"e  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C278FB.E9B84AA4u Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"r   Hello   nH I have a site on NY, working on a NT system.  They scan a document (with) Corel Draw) that I will use for printing.,  dA My library on Alpha is a PCL library.  I really need a PCL image.    G If I am not mistaken, when you print an image from a PC to a file a PCL- image is created.  Hmmmmmm  eE Now If I am correct, what format does the site in NY need to scan thet document in?   J I requested a PCL image and so far I received a JPG (will never work on anD Alpha), a EPS format (will only work as a postscript file and a DCPS printer) and a .BMP.L I cannot make any of these to work.  I bring them across as ASCII and Binary and have the same problem.  t3 Does anyone have any information that will help me?s  c  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C278FB.E9B84AA4o Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>H <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">    < <META content="MSHTML 5.00.3502.4373" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>1 <BODY style="COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">)K <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002>Hello </SPAN></FONT></DIV> K <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> Q <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002>I have a site on NY, working on  O a NT system.&nbsp; They scan a document (with Corel Draw)&nbsp;that I will use e! for printing.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>rK <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>bN <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002>My library on Alpha is a PCL = library.&nbsp; I really need a PCL image.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>hK <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>pP <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002>If I am not mistaken, when you A print an image from a PC to a file a PCL image is created.&nbsp; e Hmmmmmm</SPAN></FONT></DIV>vK <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>fK <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002>Now If I am correct, what pL format does the site in NY need to scan the document in?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>K <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>jP <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002>I requested a PCL image and so Q far I received a JPG (will never work on an Alpha), a EPS format (will only work DH as a postscript file and a DCPS printer) and a .BMP.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>O <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002>I cannot make any of these to  F work.&nbsp; I bring them across as ASCII and Binary and have the same  problem.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>K <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> F <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=988360912-21102002>Does anyone have any 2 information that will help me?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>v  ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C278FB.E9B84AA4--k  = ------=_NextPartTM-000-17069a34-e4c7-11d6-b789-0002a58abbf5--    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:01:52 +0200r6 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= 2 Subject: Re: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 - Impossible?+ Message-ID: <3DB3FAC0.2264D6C6@laposte.net>o   Alder wrote: >  > Arne Vajhj wrote:7 > >> In article <3DB25323.2050604@spammotel.com>, Alder.) > >> <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:w > >>J > >>> As most of you know, the most recent hobbyist CD from Montagar comes: > >>> with OpenVMS 7.2 and the DEC C compiler version 6.0. > >>> H > >>> I've just downloaded the latest Python for VMS release, 2.1.3, andI > >>> struggled through some misnaming of symbols only to discover that I 8 > >>> can't compile it on anything older than DEC C 6.2. > >> > >a2 > > Where is Python 2.1.3 for VMS available from ? > >n > > Arne > >  > $ > I found a link to the source here: > E > http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/docs/python_vms/INSMAN/TITLE_PAGE.HTMLe > ? > *** Version 6.2 or greater of the DEC C compiler is required.J > G > On the same page as the ZIP links is a link to the Python_Install.txtrG > file.  Though it's not explained on the site, it's a DCL command file      It's explain on the page:r .h .e .eJ A complete building procedure python_install.txt. Thank's to Colin Brown.  .  .S .e    I > that should be copied to the same directory as the two ZIP archives you J > will download and renamed with a .COM extension.  The two ZIP files are: > " >         PYTHON-2_1_3-VMS-SRC.ZIP >         TOOLSLIB.ZIP > D > The PYTHON_INSTALL.COM procedure ran pretty well on my system, butJ > complained about "bad file version number" when it was creating files inG > the directory [...LOCAL.EGENIX-MX-BASE-2_0_3].  I'm not sure what thet# > problem is, or if it's important.4 >     $ You can safely ignore these warning.N The original kit is on a ODS5 volume, so some names are illegal if you restore on an ODS2 volume.    
 Jean-Franois3   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:35:14 -0500S& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>2 Subject: Re: Tape Copy? (Or TapeCopy, the program)8 Message-ID: <t0b8rugkp7f608b41qnn3ft2i96hndknk2@4ax.com>  4 On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:09:54 GMT, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote:l   >First:s > = >	Thanks to all the help and suggestions.  The method of both B >Foreign mounts and raw Copy chunk by chunk seemed to work for me. >tB >However, the TapeCopy program interested me.  I picked it up, butB >it in MACRO and has absolutely no documentation at all.  Not even1 >a build procedure or instructions in the header.  >sH >When I "Macro TapeCopy", it gives tons of errors (Alpha/OpenVMS v7.2-1)" >and generates a 0-block OBJ file. >eB >Does anyone know how to build the program and then how to run it? > L >I am very disappointed for a "VMS FreeWare" program.  Hoff usually requires# >better docs for the submissions...u >t >rick   F One other thing to remember about TapeCopy programs.  I'd tried to useE them for making copies of VMS Backup tapes, but they don't all followpB the ANSI standards completely.  The biggest problem I ran into wasB that some of them stop the "read" as soon as they hit the hard EOTE marker... and VMS Backup savesets that cross tapes (this was 9-track,sE of course) could write out the end of a record for some distance pasttC the EOT.  The result was that the saveset would be corrupt when youa! tried to restore from the copies.t    E Now, granted, with today's large capacity tapes, spanning volumes may B not be an issue for you.  Just want to give you a heads-up on this issue.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 07:33:18 -0700, From: djurkovic@gmx.net (Matthias Djurkovic)- Subject: Re: Technical Question -- Thank you!o= Message-ID: <c135f52a.0210210633.35abf106@posting.google.com>e  q djurkovic@gmx.net (Matthias Djurkovic) wrote in message news:<c135f52a.0210102327.7d608c26@posting.google.com>...d > Hello fellows, > D > I have a question: a colleague told me, that disks that are filled< > more than 75% do not perform as good as less filled disks.E > Unfortunately, he was not able to tell me the technical reasons fordE > this statement, and you know, I always want to know the reasons forf > such statements ;-)b > H > The only reason I can find for such a statement is that it will becomeC > problematically with file and freespace fragmentation. But we are B > using a defragmentation tool and for that reason it cannot be an > issue. > 5 > Can somebody explain the technical facts for this??a > " > Thanks in advance for any input! > 	 > Cheers,o
 > Matthias      E Thanks to everyone who replied to my question and clarified even some( more points to me!  C I was off and had not seen that there was such a big response to myu: message and I was a bit like overwhelmed by the response!!   But, to come to a conclusion:u  D the fragmentation facts were not new to me. I knew that a disk whereF files (especially small ones) are created and deleted will create lots% of file and free space fragmentation.v  F However, if I have a disk (or better volume, since it's a RAID volume)E where I have a database within its pre allocated diskspace and not so-B many files that are created and deleted on a regular basis I won'tE have any problem as long as I defragment the disk, right? And that isw done daily.i  E It is clear for me, that when the disk is filled up for more than sayiB 99% that defragmenting will not take place, since the defragmenterE will not have enough space to move the blocks around. But if the diskt@ is 99% full in a production environment, I have problems anyway.    F So, good to know, that there seems to be no technical evidence (except+ the fragmentation part) for that statement!   
 Thanks again!s   Cheers,  Matthias   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:45:07 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> - Subject: Re: Technical Question -- Thank you!h; Message-ID: <01KNXMBFMMPE9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   H > However, if I have a disk (or better volume, since it's a RAID volume)G > where I have a database within its pre allocated diskspace and not soeD > many files that are created and deleted on a regular basis I won'tG > have any problem as long as I defragment the disk, right? And that is 
 > done daily.m  F Of course, any VMS defragmenter only works with files defragmented at I the VMS level.  Database files can have "internal defragmentation" which o' is transparent to a VMS-level debugger.y   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:04:21 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancee; Message-ID: <01KNX8EKT1OC9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  H > This is one of the more refined aspects of VMS. My opinion is that VMSI > has a distinct "engineered" feel to it whereas Windows, and much of theiF > software running on it, feels as if it was thrown together purely to > generate money.i  C Indeed.  Nothing like a quote from Ken Olsen to start the day!  :-)e  G The PC has bred anarchy.  Hardware, software, and peripherals have beendD thrown together in random configurations at the whim of any employeeH with access to an expense voucher and computer catalogue. The result has? been a financial and administrative nightmare for corporations.n  H                                                             ---Ken Olsen   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:27:45 +0100t' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance . Message-ID: <3DB3C891.2050506@nospamn.sun.com>   Phillip Helbig wrote:-: >>>Who will start porting MS Office(tm) to VMS/DECwindows? >>F >>No one, I hope.  The last thing VMS needs is apps that provide their >>own security holes.- >  >  > Right. >  > * >>How about a port of OpenOffice, instead? >  >  > Better, but still not good.A > F > If you like Microsoft products, use them.  If you don't, using some D > "replacement" project which still has to dance to the tune of the K > moving-target proprietary Microsoft specifications is just going part of  
 > the way. > H > Why not go ALL the way and say that the only sensible way to exchange K > information between various computing platforms is to use a format which sI > is not proprietary to, or for the most part determined by, just one of s > the players. >   = StarOffice 6.0 and OpenOffice 1.0 have a "native" file formatt? for word, spreadsheet, presentation, drawing which is XML based " and which is publically available.  A So you have a product with is both OpenSource and also has a open. document format.  B No need for people to use macros to get data into worksheets, word@ documents etc just write the file to its XML spec and hey presto" StarOffice/OpenOffice can read it.   Regardsn Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:56:34 +0100t' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy-7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance . Message-ID: <3DB3CF52.7040609@nospamn.sun.com>   Doc.Cypher wrote:-8 > On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >>Didier Morandi wrote:D >  >  > <snip> > : >>>Who will start porting MS Office(tm) to VMS/DECwindows? >>>3 >>>I ask the question. >>>n >>4 >>Seems a pretty peverse thing to want to run on VMS: >>IA64 after all isn't destined to be a volume desktop CPU- >>for some time because of its heat and cost.s >>: >>Wouldn't you be better off pushing for SAP/Seibel/Oracle6 >>Apps/PeopleSoft/Sybase and all the other server apps1 >>missing from or not at an up-to-date rev in thec >>OpenVMS software portfolio.  >  > F > For some inexplicable reason, there are people in this newsgroup whoD > believe that VMS from desktop to datacenter would be A GOOD THING. > J > I wonder... Would the name of the newsgroup perhaps explain why you findJ > people who dare to think things like that here instead of a bunch of Sun
 > zealots? >   7 Humm so straight forward common sense is also zealotry."  4 OK I admit it I am a zealot if thats the definition.  6 It is obvious that there is a scarcity of resources in= the OpenVMS market around ISV programs, business development.a  ; Agitating for resources to get an Office productivity suitet9 like MS-Office on OpenVMS would be fine if OpenVMS didn't-. have more pressing needs like ERP, DBMS's etc.  ? Agitating for desktop apps without having a competitive desktopM< platform on which to run these apps when you could use these? resources to better effect in the server space is also a waste.   ? OpenVMS is scheduled to run on IA64 which is hot and expensive. ? There arn't currently any OpenVMS thin clients like the SunRaysv@ which would mitigate against this and the current Alpha desktopsA will also be less than appealing as a Wintel Desktop replacement.f  ? I am not talking about the capabilities of the OS but the whole 	 platform.r  4 Linux can match or improve on MS desktop TCO, it has; a reasonable set of desktop apps and is available on a widei= range of competitive platforms but it still struggles against  Windows.  K If you really want to expend you efforts on an Office suite then OpenOfficecB will offer OpenVMS a low cost entry into the market, MS would wantA megabucks even if they were remotely interested which they arn't.-  C But at the end of the day your efforts would be much more rewarding E from a revenue and profitability standpoint getting more server based-& apps and more current ones on OpenVMS.   This is common sense.F   Regardse Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:59:34 +0100c' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyh7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance . Message-ID: <3DB3D006.9020103@nospamn.sun.com>   Jay E. Morris wrote:J > In message <3DB134AE.9060704@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= > <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: >  >>Ed Wensell III wrote:  >> >> >>>Didier Morandi wrote: >>>p; >>>>Who will start porting MS Office(tm) to VMS/DECwindows?a >>>> >>>>I ask the question.e >>> : >>>Maybe the question should be who's going to take on the >>>OpenOffice/StarOffice VMS?i >># >>That at least would be possible !I >>6 >>I have serious doubts how much it would be used, but4 >>that is one of the good thing about free software:4 >>1000 users paying 0 $ is the same as 1000000 users >>paying 0 $ ! >> >>Arne >  > M > Well if it had an email client that could connect to an exchange server I'd  > never turn my PC on. >   8 Talk to ximian, their Evolution mail client has a plugin8 that will talk to an exchange server and which gives you3 exactly what you get with Outlook less the viruses.o  ' It currently runs in Solaris and Linux.o  0 Ximian do a package of StarOffice and Evolution.   Regardse Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:00:41 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r7 Subject: RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancep3 Message-ID: <htS42CfLq97Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  W In article <01C27695.1ECF4520@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: D > OK, there's a Charon VAX. How about a Charon PC to run on VMS in a > secure sandbox?w  G    Several PC emulators run under VMS.  What's the point?  You just endbH    up running Microslop, with the same holes in the OS and apps that you    have on the PC.  @    I'll keep my VMS and Windows systems as separate as possible.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:07:54 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance-3 Message-ID: <yRDRvTLVxm3a@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  c In article <LB9sQu3NwWUC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:D  J > After trying for the past 3 days to get such a document from a customer,J > I would say that "Microsoft Word Format" is an under-specification.  OneK > must determine the version and platform.  Even their RTF is not portable.   G    True, but not important to the bureaucracy enhanced.  When we reallydH    want to be sure we save in Word-96 format, but sometimes we then have     to exchange that file as RTF.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:09:02 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancee3 Message-ID: <EG7paAqczQ2u@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3DB06CE3.EED109C1@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:o > L > Tell the Customer that there ARE standards. And the standard today is pdf.  E    I think if all the contractors got together and told them so, they     would not change.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:11:41 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)O7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chanceI3 Message-ID: <C9JsAbg9x8NS@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  U In article <cVu4bCl9Eijx@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:c > F > Even those who are stuck with MS Windows as their (cough) OS, do notH > _have_ to use Outlook. There are plenty of cheap or free alternatives.  D    Guess again.  I used to delete Outlook.exe from my PCs every timeD    some patch installed it.  Under the latest service pak on W2K notE    only did MS change the name to hide the guilty, they made it "partsD    of" the OS, it's opened at boot, and we've not yet found a way to5    make a delete actually work.  Oh, but we've tried!0   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 08:13:30 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancet3 Message-ID: <RlyL0b6U8aES@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <thmlH5hvDZqT@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:i > J > But increasingly over the last year or less, I am finding that .PDFs are- > being used, both on the web and internally.-  G    This can actually be not a good thing.  I've got some people postingiD    PDF on web sites, then when it's my turn to update the document IE    have to go track down the original .doc file the PDF was "printed" A    from.  Adobe's PDF editor is not all that good at many things.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:37:40 +100011 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>r7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance , Message-ID: <3DB3BCD4.4050809@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Phillip Helbig wrote: H >>This is one of the more refined aspects of VMS. My opinion is that VMSI >>has a distinct "engineered" feel to it whereas Windows, and much of theuF >>software running on it, feels as if it was thrown together purely to >>generate money.i >  > E > Indeed.  Nothing like a quote from Ken Olsen to start the day!  :-)1 > I > The PC has bred anarchy.  Hardware, software, and peripherals have beenaF > thrown together in random configurations at the whim of any employeeJ > with access to an expense voucher and computer catalogue. The result hasA > been a financial and administrative nightmare for corporations.4 > J >                                                             ---Ken Olsen  E Nice one Phillip, and how so true.  BTW, it's the end of my day, but r still a nice one to finish on.   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************o  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advisetB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.g  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid kA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the t= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with pC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:30:11 -0700t$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>7 Subject: RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance 0 Message-ID: <01C278EC.F9C6B740@sulfer.icius.com>  D Well, look at the difference in size between a Word document and theH same thing in PDF. Word docs are /bloated/. They must have really worked. hard to get that low a signal to noise ration.   Shanew   -----Original Message-----< From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch [mailto:p_sture@elias.decus.ch]( Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 8:16 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancel    3 In article <$Owna8veIj07@eisner.encompasserve.org>, / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:tL > In article <01KNTFS7XV4Y9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig, <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: >> oI >> Why not go ALL the way and say that the only sensible way to exchange sL >> information between various computing platforms is to use a format which J >> is not proprietary to, or for the most part determined by, just one of  >> the players.  > I >    Because we have a customer which has declared that Microsoft Word isi0 >    thier standard document interchange format. >   H But increasingly over the last year or less, I am finding that .PDFs are+ being used, both on the web and internally.y   -- e
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:51:37 -0700h$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>7 Subject: RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancee0 Message-ID: <01C278EF.FABDE120@sulfer.icius.com>  G I believe Mr. Harrison just demonstrated why he should continue to post- here. Thanks, Andrew.D   Shanec   -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyn. [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]& Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 3:00 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance:         Jay E. Morris wrote:J > In message <3DB134AE.9060704@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= > <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: >  >>Ed Wensell III wrote:v >> >> >>>Didier Morandi wrote: >>>.; >>>>Who will start porting MS Office(tm) to VMS/DECwindows?  >>>> >>>>I ask the question.  >>>o: >>>Maybe the question should be who's going to take on the >>>OpenOffice/StarOffice VMS?o >># >>That at least would be possible !w >>6 >>I have serious doubts how much it would be used, but4 >>that is one of the good thing about free software:4 >>1000 users paying 0 $ is the same as 1000000 users >>paying 0 $ ! >> >>Arne >  > M > Well if it had an email client that could connect to an exchange server I'dd > never turn my PC on. >   8 Talk to ximian, their Evolution mail client has a plugin8 that will talk to an exchange server and which gives you3 exactly what you get with Outlook less the viruses.t  ' It currently runs in Solaris and Linux.   0 Ximian do a package of StarOffice and Evolution.   Regards  Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 07:05:25 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)D Subject: Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!)3 Message-ID: <0toighMUiqmy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <VWuPC438fGNP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:el > In article <SQzr9.22$xa3.260261@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: >> aL >> VMS will likely add a similar interface that drivers will be able to use,N >> instead of the explicit knowledge that they must carry.  The old interfacesI >> will also remain for drivers that use them.  It won't be IPF specific,oN >> although the Alpha version will probably never do buffer copies because all$ >> Alpha systems have map registers. > 3 >    You making life too easy on us driver writers.  >   H Nah, if Fred wants to make life easy for us poor driver writers, he will( give us reloadable device drivers... :-)  K Seriously though, IIRC, when this was last raised, IA-64 VMS would not have ? reloadable device drivers. Is that still going to be the case ?l   Simon.   -- cB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:19:12 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>aD Subject: Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!)2 Message-ID: <kGWs9.33$RP7.671884@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Simon Clubley wrote in message <0toighMUiqmy@eisner.encompasserve.org>... 4 >In article <VWuPC438fGNP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,/ koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:nG >> In article <SQzr9.22$xa3.260261@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"g% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:e >>>tH >>> VMS will likely add a similar interface that drivers will be able to use,D >>> instead of the explicit knowledge that they must carry.  The old
 interfacesJ >>> will also remain for drivers that use them.  It won't be IPF specific,K >>> although the Alpha version will probably never do buffer copies because  all % >>> Alpha systems have map registers.- >>4 >>    You making life too easy on us driver writers. >> >rI >Nah, if Fred wants to make life easy for us poor driver writers, he will ) >give us reloadable device drivers... :-)o > L >Seriously though, IIRC, when this was last raised, IA-64 VMS would not have@ >reloadable device drivers. Is that still going to be the case ? >t  G Actually, you may get your wish, but I can't tell you when.  To do "hothK swap" you can start at the simple basic level of "replace with an identical @ device" - which requires drivers to have a quiece routine, and aK re-initialize/re-enable routine.  The next step is "hot remove" which wouldtF logically require a "disconnect/unload" routine.  Once you get to that3 point, you effectively have the ability to re-load.H  G So.  I think you have a good chance of seeing it.  But we need to get a4$ bunch of stuff out of the way first.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 10:06:31 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)0 Subject: Why does this file-spec work only once?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210210906.1906ad34@posting.google.com>    Hello,  C Why does a file-spec containing "password" as shown below cause theeE second (and all subsequent) lexical functions that use it to fail? IfnE I make any change at all to "password", even just capitalizing it, itl works fine. Example:   DCL> TYPE ACCESS-EXAMPLE.COM; $    AB = "NODE""USER password""::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"e $    SH SYM AB  $    NODE = F$PARSE(AB,,,"NODE") $    SH SYM NODE  $    NAME = F$PARSE(AB,,,"NAME") $    SH SYM NAME; $    AB = "NODE""USER PASSWORD""::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"n $    SH SYM AB  $    NODE = F$PARSE(AB,,,"NODE") $    SH SYM NODE  $    NAME = F$PARSE(AB,,,"NAME") $    SH SYM NAME DCL> DCL> @ACCESS-EXAMPLE6   AB = "NODE"USER password"::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"    NODE = "NODE"USER password"::"   NAME = ""c6   AB = "NODE"USER PASSWORD"::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"    NODE = "NODE"USER password"::"   NAME = "NAME"s DCL>  2 If I simply repeat the block, I get the following:   DCL> @ ACCESS-EXAMPLE.COM;6   AB = "NODE"USER password"::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"    NODE = "NODE"USER password"::"   NAME = ""q6   AB = "NODE"USER password"::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"   NODE = ""-   NAME = "", DCL>  E In the second block, it doesn't work at all! Other variations producehA similarly interesting results. What's going on here? Thanks. (VMSL V6.2)g   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmans   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.582 ************************