1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 22 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 584       Contents:J Re: $CREPRC, LOGINOUT.EXE, and UIC (was Re: Ask OpenVMS no longer working) Re: 'hobbyist' vms Re: 'hobbyist' vms& Re: ACCVIO with SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES" ACCVIO with SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES& Re: ACCVIO with SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES ACL problems...  RE: ACL problems...  Re: ACL problems...  Re: ACL problems...  Re: ACL problems...  Re: ACL problems...  Alphaserver 4100 Galaxy Problem  Re: Any news from Sue ? * Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2* Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2* Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2* Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2) Charon vax emulator and Micropower Pascal A Re: Current storage interconnect options, and new gigabit option? A Re: Current storage interconnect options, and new gigabit option? $ Dual ISA ethernet adapter on VMS 7.22 Fortran - providing zero length string to routines6 Re: Fortran - providing zero length string to routines6 Re: Fortran - providing zero length string to routines( Re: Fun: First patch for VMS 7.5 sighted4 Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?4 Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?4 Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?4 Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?4 Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! 7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!  Re: HP webpage sizing ) Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line ) Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line  Jpeg librar y for Imagemagick ! Re: Jpeg librar y for Imagemagick  Micro$oft propaganda Re: Micro$oft propaganda Re: Monitor System Question  Re: Monitor System Question  Re: Monitor System Question  Re: New User/Owner VMS question  OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING+ Re: Originator of detached process from DCL % Re: OT - we're back on old cars again 
 Re: PCL image  Soft CPU Affinity: off$ Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problem$ Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problem$ Re: Technical Question -- Thank you!$ Re: Technical Question -- Thank you!4 RE: turn a PWS600au to a (nearly) real multimedia PC) VEST-ing DEC C images -- anyone know how? . Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance; Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) ; Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!) 
 Re: VMSJava-L # VMSMAIL: usage of TO: and CC: lines ' Re: VMSMAIL: usage of TO: and CC: lines + Re: Why does this file-spec work only once? ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:37:34 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>S Subject: Re: $CREPRC, LOGINOUT.EXE, and UIC (was Re: Ask OpenVMS no longer working) 5 Message-ID: <Ufet9.16262$H67.72761@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>    Thanks to all who contributed $ $PERSONA services work like a treat! And so easy to use.   My app is working just fine now.   --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) 8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  E "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> a crit dans le message de news: * 70Ur9.15971$H67.71408@tor-nn1.netcom.ca... > > sys$persona_create > > sys$persona_assume > > sys$creprc. > > sys$persona_assume (to revert back to you) > > sys$persona_delete > 3 > Thanks for putting these in the correct sequence.  >  > Now I'll carefully RTFM  >  > -- > 	 > Syltrem K > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) : > To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address > B > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> a crit dans le message de news:& > uquc3io1m3idcc@news.supernews.com... > > sys$persona_create > > sys$persona_assume > > sys$creprc. > > sys$persona_assume (to revert back to you) > > sys$persona_delete > > 9 > > "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote in message 3 > > news:YACr9.15826$H67.71082@tor-nn1.netcom.ca... B > > > It has been HPed and every question returns the same answer: > > > / > > > Sorry, your question returned no matches.  > > >  > > > This is the URL I use ( > > > http://askq.compaq.com/askopenvms/ > > >  > > > Anyone has better luck?  > > > % > > > BTW if you have answer to this: J > > > I want to $CREPRC a detached process, that would run LOGINOUT.EXE as > > another % > > > user (different UIC than mine). K > > > It says in the book that the UIC parameter to $CREPRC is ignored when  > the & > > > image specified is LOGINOUT.EXE.  > > > How would I do this, then? > > >  > > > Thanks > > >  > > > -- > > > 
 > > > Syltrem E > > > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en  > franais) > > > > To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:08:35 +0100 > From: Torsten Mattfeldt <torsten.mattfeldt@medizin.uni-ulm.de> Subject: Re: 'hobbyist' vms 2 Message-ID: <3DB569F3.2ADC182C@medizin.uni-ulm.de>   David M Smith schrieb: > K > Perhaps you mean OpenDCL, which is available in a free (Lite) version for J > Windows. I installed it on my Windows 2000 system. You can find it for a > variety of OS's at:  > & >     http://www.accelr8.com/dcll.html   Dear David,    thank you very much!  6 Indeed I could also install Open DCL  and it worked at. once. I could give commands at the AB$-prompt.   I have still two questions:   + 1. If we have a lite version, is there also # a professional version of Open-DCL?   7 2. Is there VMS-analogous software available which runs ( under OpenDCL? E.g., an editor or a file	 manager?     Kind regards Torsten          >  > Torsten Mattfeldt wrote:3 > > VMS embedded into another operating system e.g. 6 > > under Windows has been called 'hobbyist' software./ > > As far as I understand, one can use similar ) > > commands as n VMS but keeps the basic  > > operating system intact. > >  > > My questions:  > > # > > 1. Is such a solution possible?  > > ! > > 2. If so: where can I get it? ) > >    a) for Windows32 (NT, 2000 or XP)?  > >    b) for Linux? > >  > > Torsten    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:50:21 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: 'hobbyist' vms 8 Message-ID: <cosaru4jt1mkluu8mmf1p7fak4a8p8bhej@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:08:35 +0100, Torsten Mattfeldt - <torsten.mattfeldt@medizin.uni-ulm.de> wrote:    >I have still two questions: > , >1. If we have a lite version, is there also$ >a professional version of Open-DCL?  C See http://www.accelr8.com/dcl.html -- I do not have any experience 
 with this.  8 >2. Is there VMS-analogous software available which runs) >under OpenDCL? E.g., an editor or a file 
 >manager?   > I heard about OpenDCL Lite from Hunter Goatley's "favorite W2KE software" web page at http://www.goatley.com/hunter/w2k.html. On that D page, he has links to the ED web site, which is an "EDT-like" editor? for a variety of platforms. You might check that out. I have no  experience with it, either. I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:41:41 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: ACCVIO with SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES 5 Message-ID: <9Ibt9.119354$N_6.1690661@news.chello.at>   l In article <ap3g80$a1d3@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>, Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> writes:> >If a disk has only 1 block left free, SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES 	 >crashes:  >  >$ sho dev lda3  > Q >Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans Mnt Q > Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count Cnt Q >$1$LDA3:       (SAP11)  Mounted alloc        0  KALLE                1     1   1  >  >$ sh dev lda3 /siz=by > Q >Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans Mnt Q > Name                   Status           Count     Label         Space Count Cnt Q >%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=78, virtual address=300000000000 ' >001B, PC=00000000000121E0, PS=00021D40   ? Another sign of bad quality assurance in OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 ?    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:31:06 +0200 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>+ Subject: ACCVIO with SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES / Message-ID: <ap3g80$a1d3@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>   = If a disk has only 1 block left free, SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES   crashes:   $ sho dev lda3  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP $1$LDA3:       (SAP11)  Mounted alloc        0  KALLE                1     1   1   $ sh dev lda3 /siz=by   P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label         Space Count CntP %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=78, virtual address=300000000000& 001B, PC=00000000000121E0, PS=00021D40  2   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.1     Signal arguments:   Number = 0000000000000003 1                         Name   = 000000000000000C 1                                  0000000000045A78 1                                  300000000000001B        Register dump:J     R0  = 000000000000000C  R1  = 0000000000000011  R2  = 00000000000121E0J     R3  = 0000000000021D40  R4  = 00000000000231C0  R5  = 0000000000000001J     R6  = 0000000000000001  R7  = 000000007AD013C8  R8  = 00000000007810D2J     R9  = 0000000000000400  R10 = 0000000000000100  R11 = 000000007AD00F58J     R12 = 000000007AD00E58  R13 = 000000007AD013D8  R14 = 0000000000000000J     R15 = 000000007AEA1C20  R16 = 000000000000000C  R17 = 0000000000000000J     R18 = 0000000000000030  R19 = 000000007AD00F98  R20 = 0000000000000004J     R21 = 000000007AD00F88  R22 = 0000000000000004  R23 = 214341322130302EJ     R24 = 0000000000000088  R25 = 0000000000000001  R26 = 0000000000045A78J     R27 = 000000007B540E20  R28 = 300000000000001B  R29 = 000000007AD00E30J     SP  = 000000007AD00E30  PC  = 0000000000045A78  PS  = 300000000000001B   --  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards    Karl Rohwedder                   iT-Ingenieurteam       Ellernbruch 11 D-38112 Braunschweig    . E.Mail:  karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:07:42 +0200  From: "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1> / Subject: Re: ACCVIO with SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES * Message-ID: <ap3m3k$f7v$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  G "Karl Rohwedder" <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote in message ) news:ap3g80$a1d3@doiweb4.volkswagen.de... > > If a disk has only 1 block left free, SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES
 > crashes: hello   B I have tried this on a Vms 7.3-1, on a DSA disk, it works fine and sh dev and  sh dev /siz=byte% both work fine, displaying  correctly  free space 0  ' May be it is specific with LD devices ?    Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:12:49 +0530 4 From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> Subject: ACL problems...I Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2606B8E33@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>    Hi all, K I had created a database in RDB. While trying to grant access to others (of ; group 500) I forgot to use the POSITION qualifier (in RDB).   D I am trying to delete the ACEs for IDENTIFIER [500,*]. I did go thruD different system manuals but I am not able to get the command right.  G Set security/acl[=(identifier=[500,*],access=none)] /delete bb_rdb.rdb;   ? I get a message saying syntax is wrong. Can anyone please help?     & Protection on database is shown below:  ! SQL> sh protection on database a;  Protection on Alias A $     (IDENTIFIER=[500,*],ACCESS=NONE)A     (IDENTIFIER=[500,*],ACCESS=SELECT+INSERT+UPDATE+DELETE+ALTER)    I (IDENTIFIER=[KESAV],ACCESS=SELECT+INSERT+UPDATE+DELETE+SHOW+CREATE+ALTER+ 6       DROP+DBCTRL+OPERATOR+DBADM+SECURITY+DISTRIBTRAN)"     (IDENTIFIER=[*,*],ACCESS=NONE)  
 With regards,  Tadimeti Kesav KEANE INDIA Ltd.
 E9 - E12, SDF  NEPZ NOIDA - 201 305 
 U.P, INDIA   Telefon: +91-120-456 8210 (211) % e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:24:44 +0930 : From: "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au> Subject: RE: ACL problems...P Message-ID: <07103702F27FD411ACA30000F8085452044FEF85@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au>   To remove database ACL,    $ sql  sql> help revoke   To remove ACL on database file,   ! $ rmu/set priv/edit database_name      Regards,
 Chris Barratt    > -----Original Message-----= > From: Kesav Tadimeti [mailto:Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com] & > Sent: Tuesday, 22 October 2002 16:13 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: ACL problems... >  > 	 > Hi all, @ > I had created a database in RDB. While trying to grant access  > to others (of = > group 500) I forgot to use the POSITION qualifier (in RDB).  > F > I am trying to delete the ACEs for IDENTIFIER [500,*]. I did go thruF > different system manuals but I am not able to get the command right. > > > Set security/acl[=(identifier=[500,*],access=none)] /delete 
 > bb_rdb.rdb;  > A > I get a message saying syntax is wrong. Can anyone please help?  >  > ( > Protection on database is shown below: > # > SQL> sh protection on database a;  > Protection on Alias A & >     (IDENTIFIER=[500,*],ACCESS=NONE)C >     (IDENTIFIER=[500,*],ACCESS=SELECT+INSERT+UPDATE+DELETE+ALTER)  >   @ > (IDENTIFIER=[KESAV],ACCESS=SELECT+INSERT+UPDATE+DELETE+SHOW+CR
 > EATE+ALTER+ 8 >       DROP+DBCTRL+OPERATOR+DBADM+SECURITY+DISTRIBTRAN)$ >     (IDENTIFIER=[*,*],ACCESS=NONE) >  > With regards,  > Tadimeti Kesav > KEANE INDIA Ltd. > E9 - E12, SDF  > NEPZ > NOIDA - 201 305  > U.P, INDIA > ! > Telefon: +91-120-456 8210 (211) ' > e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:02:14 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: ACL problems..., Message-ID: <3DB4F7F5.FD60446B@videotron.ca>   Kesav Tadimeti wrote: I > Set security/acl[=(identifier=[500,*],access=none)] /delete bb_rdb.rdb;  > A > I get a message saying syntax is wrong. Can anyone please help?   7 have you tried set security/acl/delete=all bb_rbd.rdb ?   ) That will remove all ACEs from that file.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:45:52 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: ACL problems...8 Message-ID: <6uoarugk2ad1m6no3btdc6kdqu7sa41144@4ax.com>  2 On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:12:49 +0530, Kesav Tadimeti& <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote:   >Hi all,L >I had created a database in RDB. While trying to grant access to others (of< >group 500) I forgot to use the POSITION qualifier (in RDB). > E >I am trying to delete the ACEs for IDENTIFIER [500,*]. I did go thru E >different system manuals but I am not able to get the command right.  > H >Set security/acl[=(identifier=[500,*],access=none)] /delete bb_rdb.rdb; > @ >I get a message saying syntax is wrong. Can anyone please help?  A If you really included the square brackets in your command as you A showed above, then try it again without them. In the doc and help ; files, square brackets indicate optional elements. So, try:   F $ set security/acl=(identifier=[500,*],access=none) /delete bb_rdb.rdbI ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:56:58 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Re: ACL problems...$ Message-ID: <3db56756$1@news.si.com>  E >I am trying to delete the ACEs for IDENTIFIER [500,*]. I did go thru E >different system manuals but I am not able to get the command right.  > H >Set security/acl[=(identifier=[500,*],access=none)] /delete bb_rdb.rdb; > @ >I get a message saying syntax is wrong. Can anyone please help?  / Take out the brackets and the extra equal sign:   E $ set security/acl=(identifier=[500,*],access=none)/delete bb_rdb.rdb  --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 10:23:19 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: ACL problems...= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210220923.493533e3@posting.google.com>    Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote in message news:<8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2606B8E33@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>... 	 > Hi all, M > I had created a database in RDB. While trying to grant access to others (of = > group 500) I forgot to use the POSITION qualifier (in RDB).  > F > I am trying to delete the ACEs for IDENTIFIER [500,*]. I did go thruF > different system manuals but I am not able to get the command right. > I > Set security/acl[=(identifier=[500,*],access=none)] /delete bb_rdb.rdb; 5                   ^                                 ^   ? Omit the brackets I pointed to. Those brackets are shown in the F documentation to indicate *optional* arguments. Do not include them inA your actual command. Of course, directory brackets, UIC brackets, D symbol substring specifications, and the like, *should* be included.  F (Please read the Conventions section which can bd found at or near the! beginning of the manual. Thanks.)   A > I get a message saying syntax is wrong. Can anyone please help?  [...]    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:57:08 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.net ( Subject: Alphaserver 4100 Galaxy Problem7 Message-ID: <UM5t9.22815$Pk1.5498@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>   > I have an Alphaserver 4100 with two 5/533 CPUs and 4GB of RAM.= I've followed the Galaxy configuration documentation and have 8 two instances.  My lp* variables are defined as follows:  ( lp_count                2               ( lp_cpu_mask0            1               ( lp_cpu_mask1            2               ( lp_io_mask0             10              ( lp_io_mask1             20              ( lp_mem_size0            80000000        ( lp_mem_size1            7c000000        ( lp_shared_mem_size      4000000           ; These are set up the same in both instances.  I'm using the 9 latest firmware from the Firmware V6.2 update CD.  When I : try to boot instance 1, either from a preinstalled OpenVMS9 V7.3-1 system disk or the V7.3-1 CD, I get the following:   ! (boot dkc0.0.0.2000.1 -flags e,0) 0 block 0 of dkc0.0.0.2000.1 is a valid boot block' reading 969 blocks from dkc0.0.0.2000.1  bootstrap code read in Building FRU table3 base = 200000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 79200  initializing HWRPB at 2000 GCT base = 12e000 # initializing page table at 801f2000  initializing machine state# setting affinity to the primary CPU  jumping to bootstrap code    halted CPU 1  
 halt code = 2  kernel stack not valid halt  PC = 12e000            P01>>>  7 I would guess that I am missing something.  The devices : on IOD0 appear only on instance 0, and the devices on IOD1/ appear only on instance 1, like I would assume.    What am I doing wrong? --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net = Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 08:30:40 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)   Subject: Re: Any news from Sue ?= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0210220730.6eea769b@posting.google.com>   # Dear JF, Fred, Shane and newsgroup.   * Thank you very much for asking and caring.  B Well I am alive.  I had a frozen shoulder, you go to the hospital,C they knock you out and they yank your arm till the tissue tears you 9 wake up in a large amount of pain and they send you home.   D The hard part is physical therapy every day which is rather painful.  ' I will be back in the office next week.    sue   a I AQQShane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C278F6.56523030@sulfer.icius.com>... H > I literally just exchanged emails with her. She seems in good spirits. >  > Shane  >  > -----Original Message-----< > From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]) > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 10:42 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " > Subject: Re: Any news from Sue ? >  > I > She has been sending mail, so I am assuming all is well.  She indicated  > toG > me before she left that the procedure didn't require a hospital stay,  > but + > she would be recovering for a week or so.  > G > Expect her to need a few days to get unburied from mail.  She is very  > popular, and very busy.  > ? > JF Mezei wrote in message <3DB39344.B8F1DA18@videotron.ca>... L > >Last week, Sue announced that she was recovering from surgey and would be >  at M > >home for some time. haven't heard from her since. Any news from her ? Sue,  >  are > >you still alive ? Doing OK ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:09:46 +0200 6 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= 3 Subject: Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 + Message-ID: <3DB4F9BA.D0E29B84@laposte.net>   N OpenVMS 7.3-1 has the getgroups function but under VMS a user cannot be member to an extra groups.  from limits.h: .  .  . N #   define  NGROUPS_MAX             0     /* User can be in no extra groups */ .  .  .   ' So DECC emit the ZEROELEMENTS1 warning.   M The functions exists, so I have export it if you have a VMS version >= 7.3-1.   Don't know the results return...     David Webb wrote:  >  > In article <3DB404E4.AAED86E4@laposte.net>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?=     <jf.pieronne@laposte.net> writes: . > >You can ignore the message %COPY-W-INCOMPAT > > P > >The directory PYTHON_ROOT:[VMS.O_ALPHA.VMS], initially empty, is created when! > >the Python saveset is restore. G > >It was accidently remove from the latest distribution, sorry for the  > >inconvenience. ' > >I will add it and rebuild a new kit.  > >  > I also get >  > gid_t grouplist[MAX_GROUPS]; > ..............^ P > %CC-W-ZEROELEMENTS1, In the declaration of "grouplist", zero cannot be used as > a O > n element count specifier.  It will be replaced with the constant one in this  > co > ntext.C > at line number 2211 in file PYTHON_ROOT:[MODULES]POSIXMODULE.C;16  >  > with >  > Alpha2:cc/ver + > Compaq C V6.5-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1  >  > Which I assume I can ignore. >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > I > >You can, before build the last module, create manually this directory.  > > 8 > >This directory would contains only two objects files:O > >CONFIG_INITTAB.OBJ and PYTHON.OBJ, which are the latest objects build by the  > >procedure before linking. > >  > > S > >If you want to build a better install procedure, or better a kit, I will be very 2 > >happy to include it into a new distribution :-) > >  > > R > >I am currently working on a new port of the forthcoming 2.3 version, which pass) > >nearly all the Python regession tests.  > >  > >  > >  > >Jean-Franois > >  > >  > >Alder wrote:  > >> > >> OpenVMS Alpha 7.2# > >> WASD 8.0 (with OPENSSL 0.9.6E) 
 > >> DECC 6.5  > >>I > >> Thanks to the kind assistance of others in c.o.v I've managed to get M > >> past the compiler issue and attempt a fresh build of Python 2.1.3.  It's L > >> not the smoothest build, that's for sure.  Anyone else out there manageM > >> to build and install this latest release of Python for VMS yet?  I think I > >> I'm getting close to something usable, but have stalled at the point  > >> shown below.  > >>M > >> If anyone can tell why these messages are generated, please let us know! M > >>    The directory that is reported 'missing' by the build process is very  > >> much where it should be.  > >> > >> Thanks,
 > >> Alder > >>= > >> $ @PYTHON_INSTALL DISK$NET:[PYLIB] DISK$NET:[PYTHON] 7.0  > >> . > >> . > >> .' > >> Building WASD module (YES/NO) [Y]?  > >> register _wasd  > >>A > >> Building Python Library Imaging Library module (YES/NO) [Y]?  > >> register _imaging > >>* > >> Building gdchart module (YES/NO) [Y]? > >> register gdchart  > >>M > >> %COPY-W-INCOMPAT, PYTHON_ROOT:[VMS]CONFIG_OPTIONAL_MODULES.TXT;7 (input)  > >> and PYTE > >> HON_ROOT:[VMS]CONFIG.DAT;1 (output) have incompatible attributes K > >> %AMAC-F-OPENOUT, error opening PYTHON_ROOT:[VMS.O_ALPHA.VMS] as output $ > >> -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found' > >> -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file  > >> $ > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:53:17 +0200 6 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= 3 Subject: Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 + Message-ID: <3DB503ED.86C2FE38@laposte.net>   8 I have update the install page adding a setup paragraph.  A You have to run two procedures which are into the .VMS directory:  @logicals [/system]  define global logicals @setup" define a few symbols and logicals.  8 I have suppress the warning into the new kit MIXLINKAGE.  O the linker warning about DECC$PUTCHAR, mean that there is probably into one the P various libraries (not into the Python core) there is a redefinition of putchar,@ if I remember correctly there is a Putchar or PutChar somewhere.   Thanks for testing.   
 Jean-Franois    ps. , I have put a zip file with Python 2.3 alpha.K Even it is a alpha version it seem to run very well, may be better than the  2.1.3 version.( This version also include more modules. N You will probably need a ODS5 volume because in this version there are modules) with the same name, only the case differ.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:50:04 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> 3 Subject: Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 2 Message-ID: <3DB5113C.4010405@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>   Jean-Franois PIRONNE wrote:  > ps. . > I have put a zip file with Python 2.3 alpha.M > Even it is a alpha version it seem to run very well, may be better than the  > 2.1.3 version.* > This version also include more modules. P > You will probably need a ODS5 volume because in this version there are modules+ > with the same name, only the case differ. % Where can we find this alpha version?                   Jouk    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:08:23 -0700 * From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>3 Subject: Re: Build trouble: Python 2.1.3 on VMS 7.2 + Message-ID: <3db56a8f$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>    $ PYTHONE Python 2.1.3 (V001, Mon Oct 21 11:21:53 2002) [DECC] on OpenVMS Alpha 	 (G_float) > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> YIPPEEEEE    Merci beaucoup, Jean-Franois   C "Jean-Franois PIRONNE" <jf.pieronne@laposte.net> wrote in message % news:3DB503ED.86C2FE38@laposte.net...  > : > I have update the install page adding a setup paragraph.  G It's the price of success.  Clueless newbies like me are now on to you.   C > You have to run two procedures which are into the .VMS directory:  > @logicals [/system]  > define global logicals > @setup$ > define a few symbols and logicals.  . > I have put a zip file with Python 2.3 alpha.I > Even it is a alpha version it seem to run very well, may be better than  the  > 2.1.3 version.) > This version also include more modules. H > You will probably need a ODS5 volume because in this version there are modules + > with the same name, only the case differ.   I That's a shame.  I was planning on avoiding ODS5 altogether (if I could).    Alder    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 00:47:06 -0700$ From: jk@igm-group.com (Joe Kreuzer)2 Subject: Charon vax emulator and Micropower Pascal= Message-ID: <5697eb95.0210212347.5c134f9f@posting.google.com>   E I want to use Charon Vax emulator for cross compiling with Micropower  Pascal. E The Micropower Pascal environment contains also RSX-executables which $ run on my VAX in compatibility mode.5 Does Charon Vax emulator support compatibility mode ?   @ I downloaded some pdf-file from softresint which says charon vaxC doesn't support PDP-11 emulation mode, for this Charon-11 should be  used.    Is this true ?   Thanks for answers.    Joe Kreuzer    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:39:16 GMT 2 From: "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom>J Subject: Re: Current storage interconnect options, and new gigabit option?0 Message-ID: <ENat9.9$4y.178317@news.cpqcorp.net>  J I hope the bottleneck is not in the storage. Those BA356 shelves and disks will look very slow.  G Support for the MSA1000 is due in Spring 2003 as an option to consider.   8 I know budgets are budgets but one has to be realistic!!   --" Andrew Dodd - not speaking for HP. Pre-Sales Account Consultant HP Computer Ltd  www.hp.com/uk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:37:36 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>J Subject: Re: Current storage interconnect options, and new gigabit option?. Message-ID: <3DB54690.B366298E@mindspring.com>   Rich Jordan wrote:  D > Also based on some posts apparently coming out of the recent Decus= > (yeah, whatever they call it) event, the new 'fast' cluster G > interconnect is supposed to be a new gigabit ethernet card coming out D > soon, as opposed to memory channel.  Even assuming that the memoryC > channel hardware he has could be moved (we're checking, but it is H > first generation MC so I doubt it) we'd prefer to go with new hardwareC > (again, maintenance and presumed reliability).  Is there any info ( > available online for the new card yet?  5 The "flavor of the month" in storage interconnects is / iSCSI (where SCSI packets are routed over a TCP / network). With Gigabit Ethernet as the physical / medium, this gives pretty good performance. And ) 10GBaseT is about to be standardized! :-)   / On the lower-end side, Serial ATA is the flavor 0 of the month. It finally jettisons the awful ATA- physical medium in favor of a few-wire serial / physical medium that's software-compatible with  existing IDE/ATA/ATAPI stuff.    Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:36:38 +0100   From: "T.R." <tr303@hotmail.com>- Subject: Dual ISA ethernet adapter on VMS 7.2 4 Message-ID: <oaet9.91817$gD2.8476184@zwoll1.home.nl>   Hi  L I will soon be the owner af a DEC Alpha AXPpci 33 board, and I'm planning toF install OpenVMS 7.2 on it. I'm completely new to VMS, but I have a fewI questions, even before I get the whole thing running. (I haven't even got  OpenVMS media).   K The board is officially not supported for OpenVMS, but I found descriptions + of how to get it running with a Multia Kit.   G This Multia Kit, what exactly is that? Will I get it when I buy OpenVMS  7.2/Hobby License?  H I have two DEC Etherworks 3 DE204 ISA cards. I found out these cards areF supported by OpenVMS. However, I read that OpenVMS 6.2 doesn't support@ multiple ISA ethernet adapters. Is this still the case with 7.2?  J Also, I read that OpenVMS only supports a single PCI device. Would puttingJ in a PCI nic and an ISA nic work? Is there a list of PCI/ISA hardware that. is supported? Any non-DEC network cards maybe?  J The reason why I ask is because ultimately I'd like to perform NAT routingK on the system to share my cable internet connection. Is this even possible?o; Has anyone ever done this and is there software to do this?l  J Finally, the board has an IDE port and a SCSI-2 port. Can I simply connectJ any IDE or SCSI harddrive on the system, no limitations? And what about CDF ROM drives? Will an IDE ATAPI CD ROM drive on the IDE port do the job?  ! Thanks in advance for any answer.n   -- To   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:33:12 GMTa3 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie>t; Subject: Fortran - providing zero length string to routines . Message-ID: <ssct9.8781$cP3.17948@news.iol.ie>  
 Greetings,   A small Fortran-77 question.  G What is the recommended way for a Fortran program to pass a zero lengthiD string by descriptor to a procedure (which itself is not necessarily
 Fortran) ?  K The Digital Fortran Language Manual states that a zero length string shouldi= be specified as two consecutive single quote symbols, i.e. ''t  ! However, when I try the followings       Call Sub1 ('')   the compiler complains           Call Sub1 ('') ...................^% %FORT-E-ZERLENSTR, Zero-length stringt7 at line number 5 in file US$:[TWADE.SCRATCH]TEMP.FOR;23t  4 One way that seems to work is to pass something like       Call Sub1 (string (1:0))  = which is fine, unless you happen to compile with /CHECK=BOUNDs  ; A more esoteric attempt to manually build the descriptor is   $     Integer *4    null_string /0, 0/     Call Sub1 (null_string)   % Is there a 'correct' way to do this ?c   Tom Wade tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:08:05 -0400e& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>? Subject: Re: Fortran - providing zero length string to routines 8 Message-ID: <vrtarussgcq5ag4nuh55ifk5b07u5g9teo@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:33:12 GMT, "Tom Wade") <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie> wrote:C  < >A more esoteric attempt to manually build the descriptor is >T% >    Integer *4    null_string /0, 0/  >    Call Sub1 (null_string) >i& >Is there a 'correct' way to do this ?  F In our code here, we use code similar to the following to build a null string descriptor:  4         structure /desc/    ! to build a null string             integer*2 length             byte typeo             byte class             integer*4 addressN         end structure2         record /desc/ null"         include '($DSCDEF)/NOLIST'           null.length = 0I,         null.type = DSC$K_DTYPE_VT  ! = 'E'x)         null.class = DSC$K_CLASS_S  ! = 1iA         null.address = 0  ! doesn't matter for zero length stringi  D Someone will probably have a shorter solution which is more elegant.I -------------------------------------------------------------------------bI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com-I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)eI --------------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:08:17 +02000E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>O? Subject: Re: Fortran - providing zero length string to routiness+ Message-ID: <3DB577F1.789C0E93@mediasec.de>.  K It can't legally be done in F77, because F77 doesn't have the concept of annH empty string. Building this specific descriptor by hand, as you show, isK probably a viable solution. Another is to use an F90 compiler, which _does_r know what empty strings are.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:52:45 +0200a From: "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1>01 Subject: Re: Fun: First patch for VMS 7.5 sighted * Message-ID: <ap0f91$o48$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:oiBp4I2NnjZ1@elias.decus.ch...iI > In article <3DB13B4F.6060800@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:yG > > I was checking the list of patches for AXP VMS, and found the first G > > patch for OpenVMS 7.5 ! It is a Fortran patch, so if you're running + > > Fortran on OpenVMS 7.5 you are warned !a > >  >s	 > Whoops!: > - > Index of /public/vms/axp/v7.5/fortran/7.5 >eH > BTW, I wish they would expand the size of column 1 there. When readingD > from a browser with a large enough window, it is possible to hoverF > the mouse over the url and see most of the full name, but not always. > enough to distinguish one file from another.   Helloe   The australian siteh5 http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/r is much more user-friendly.    May be you should use it.    Regardsk   Grard     -- A great quote by a great man/ > I'd hate to insult morons by calling you one.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:03:11 GMTn( From: Mark Hemker <hemker@insightbb.com>= Subject: Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?e8 Message-ID: <fffaruclu8prfus5v29snfrgbcjknq502n@4ax.com>  A My employer (RDS, formerly re:Member Data Services) also provides C banking software that runs on VMS.  We specialize in Credit Unions,tC but also have a couple of banks using our software.  I also know ofn# one other company that runs on VMS.c   Mark Hemkeru mhemker@remember.com  , On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:12:22 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:2   >John Smith wrote:K >> Sanchez is one vendor that has good banking systems that run onVMS. Been: >> that way for years. >gO >Unfortunatly, their web site is one that requires one to "view source" to findhJ >out where the non-functional fancy menus are supposed to lead to ,and theM >manuelly enter the URLs. And some of the PDF documents are either not found,tM >or require registration. Ironic that a company would require registration tohD >download a PDF that was advertising. Oh well, it is their business. > O >I did enter a search for VMS on their front page and that yielded 3 documents.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 05:45:49 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?t= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0210220445.6e3921b3@posting.google.com>   s "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<QX2t9.35858$%h2.34930@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...b/ > "Z" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message + > news:ur9a0cqrlcnvc9@corp.supernews.com...e6 > > : HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters? > >eI > > IME, most companies that are moving from VMS are doing so because of:h > >a+ > > 1 Fear of lack of future support of VMS0? > > 2 Fear of lack of future support for Third Party s/w on VMS-
 > >  and / or-% > > 3 Licensing and maintenance costs  > > C > > One of my last employers went from VMS to Tru64 and then to AIX F > > primarily because their 3P database vendor had announced a plan to > > phase out VMS support. > > I > > This was a transaction procesing company and they got the same degree H > > of reliability and redundancy with multiplexed AIX boxes as they hadG > > with VMS.  Plus their 3P database vendor has committed to long termd > > AIX support. > >cH > > If you know what you're doing, you can get by with Unix and not haveJ > > to worry every year if that's the year the axe falls on future support > > for VMS. >  > K >  And that my friends is the fat lady singing. Unless HP decides that they/2 > want this play to have an extra act beyond that.  D HP has stated their intentions over and over ... alpha vms thru 2011E and itanium vms after that ... if these people are so dense that they-. don't get it, then let them lose their $@! ...   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:53:17 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> = Subject: Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?-; Message-ID: <01KNYWLE3M7S9QXRDQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-  F > HP has stated their intentions over and over ... alpha vms thru 2011G > and itanium vms after that ... if these people are so dense that they 0 > don't get it, then let them lose their $@! ...  E On one level, I agree.  People who go with the buzz word of the week <H when planning their IT infrastructure deserve to get what they get.  On F the other hand, if HP can't make enough money from VMS to continue to I develop it, then NO-ONE can use it to its full extent.  I don't see that rF happening, but that is the concern, not the fate of this bank or even 4 its customers (in the context of the original post).  H On the other hand, HP has to realise that many VMS customers have heard E various VMS vendors state their intentions over and over, only to be  @ burned by relying on this.  "NT on ALPHA is the future", anyone?  G If HP says "we'll continue", then folks fear they'll continue with the rI bad things as well.  If they say "we will re-organise", then again folks SD fear the worst.  What has to happen is for Carly to say "we want to ? continue with these good things" and then enumerate them, then  I explicitly say that mistakes were made regarding commitments in the past  I and that HP will make every effort to avoid such misinformation (even if -A it was really believed by some people at the time) in the future.<   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:13:09 GMTZ. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)= Subject: Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?/5 Message-ID: <F9ct9.119651$N_6.1693174@news.chello.at>   h In article <d7791aa1.0210220445.6e3921b3@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:E >HP has stated their intentions over and over ... alpha vms thru 2011nF >and itanium vms after that ... if these people are so dense that they/ >don't get it, then let them lose their $@! ...   M Come on. You can't be serious. Noone I asked the last year did ever hear that    1) VMS is still aliveS 2) VMS is ported to IA643 3) VMS gets U**X certification again (with DII COE)r; 4) newer AlphaServers will take the performance crown again 	 and so onh  6 Some of them knew that "Alpha is dead" but that's all.  J If HP really wants to revert the public image DEC and CPQ draw in the lastK years, they have MUCH MORE to do (than to feed *us* with their intentions). M And we already got more than once burned be believing the last 'intentions'..C  J Iff we believe in the future (and we all still want to !!) it doesn't meanO anything to our jobs, if the rest of the world (eg. ISV, PHB, trade press, ...) M doesn't believe it and draw their own conclusions (and dropping VMS support).0B And as I see this rest of the world, they seem to not believe it !   -- 0 Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER0% Network and OpenVMS system specialist1 E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 08:33:27 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)8= Subject: Re: HP - Why isn't this bank using OpenVMS clusters?0= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0210220733.6a12879f@posting.google.com>   r "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<kOZs9.34503$Q3S.8695@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...2 > Municipal Credit Union Gets Looted $20 At A Time  E Despite the fact that dishonest people took advantage of them, I haverF a great deal of respect for their decision in favor of allowing peopleB access to their money under very-trying circumstances, despite the  risk to their assets from fraud.  : And in actuality, this credit union _does_ use OpenVMS (onE Alphaservers), but unfortunately they didn't have a disaster-toleranteD cluster (or even a remote-shadowing cluster) in place before 9/11.  B That has been remedied.  Today, they are using StorageWorks DRM onB HSG80s to mirror their data to a remote site a safe distance away,6 using a 622-megabit link and SAN Valley gateway boxes.   For more info, see:a7 http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2002/0902lessonsside1.htmld$ http://www.totaltec.com/case_mcu.htm4 http://www.nwfusion.com/research/2002/1007feat2.html? http://www2.bostonherald.com/news/national/ap_fraud08052002.htmp   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:12:57 +0200.E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>o@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!+ Message-ID: <3DB540C9.8668BE51@mediasec.de>l  G >         Where is the next uptick?  I don't know.  But I am willing tos7 >         bet it comes from the U.S.  Innovators 'R US.i  I Your semi-inifinite supply of lawyers, coupled with a justice system thatsG no longer is worth the title, will likely make sure that cannot happen.a   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:31:46 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!. Message-ID: <3DB54531.4E38D437@mindspring.com>   Jerry Leslie wrote:   . > Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote: > : G > :       Where is the next uptick?  I don't know.  But I am willing to 7 > :       bet it comes from the U.S.  Innovators 'R US.I >AJ > Or Communist China, since a lot of R&D formerly done in the U.S., Japan,$ > and Europe is being located there:  5 Or Bangalore, India, where many of the US's high-techh5 jobs have been exported to. You have all noticed thatA
 trend, right?    Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:29:28 -0400o2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!. Message-ID: <3DB544A8.89849D3E@mindspring.com>   David Froble wrote:   < > The real issue is whether real tech progress will continue@ > to happen in the US, or have we given up on that?  If so, then? > plan on learning the phrase "How would you like that burger?"   . We are now spending approximately $400 BILLION2 (400*10^9) per year on our military defenses. I've/ been told that that is as much as the next *25*o largest spenders *COMBINED*.  / An economy can't mis-direct ("waste") that muchs+ money (and manpower) each year and not face  long-term consequences.i  4 Unless your name is Bush or you work for the Carlyle0 Group (of mostly defense contractors) *COUNT* on2 learning the phrase "Do you want fries with that?"   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:46:54 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy)@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!, Message-ID: <3DB556CE.20508@nospamn.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:EJ >>>   "A lot of people don't want to admit that the technology industry isC >>>   maturing," said Ann Livermore, an executive vice president of H >>>   Hewlett-Packard who leads the company's services division. "It's a4 >>>   maturing industry with a slowing growth rate." >> > N > That is what you get when you have a monopoly platform. Innovation goes downP > the drain because if you come up with a brand new product, the minute it showsL > signs of success, Microsoft either buys it or develops an inferior version > that is marketed to death. > P > Even VMS is sort of restricted in its innovation due to its need to first work5 > to be "compatible" with inferior operating systems.s > G > Look at the PDA market. Palm had the "cheap" PDA, while PSION had thewM > sophisticated PDAs and HP had the DOS-PDAs.  Then Microsoft decides it must K > take that market and introduced Windows-CE. After just a few years, PSIONjK > pulls out of the market alltogether, unable to compete against MS, and HP.P > adopts Windows-CE, and later dumps its own products to focus on the iPAQ which. > is essentially a Microsoft designed product. > N > Now, the Win-CE (pocket pc) design has become "standard" with palm's simplerB > design also in teh running.  Innovation has gone down the drain. >   C That isn't quite true. PSION may have dropped out of the PDA market C but its OE EPOC-32 is alive and well and running on a Sony Ericssonn+ or Nokia Phone/PDA in many peoples pockets.d  @ Symbian/EPOC has been very sucessfull in capturing the Phone/PDA@ market and has a much larger coverage than either WinCE/PocketPC
 or PalmOS.  3 I like PalmOS not because of its functionality, itsa9 very simple, but because it does what I need, is reliable.A and runs on devices that are smaller than and have longer batteryd" life than most of the competition.  E Symbian also falls into this category while also having multi-tasking3 and multi-media support.  ; My experience of WinCE/PocketPC devices has been less good, 7 relatively poor reliability, bigger packages and poorer-
 battery life.-   Regards- Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:21:49 GMT01 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)b@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!< Message-ID: <1adt9.174775$8o3.5209607@twister.austin.rr.com>  3 Atlant Schmidt (atlantnospam@mindspring.com) wrote:s : Jerry Leslie wrote:n : 0 : > Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote: : > :dI : > :       Where is the next uptick?  I don't know.  But I am willing toy9 : > :       bet it comes from the U.S.  Innovators 'R US.e : >kL : > Or Communist China, since a lot of R&D formerly done in the U.S., Japan,& : > and Europe is being located there: : 7 : Or Bangalore, India, where many of the US's high-tech 7 : jobs have been exported to. You have all noticed thatv : trend, right?t :   D Yes, but Communist China is attracting a lot of R&D work which wouldD have been performed in the U.S., Europe, and Japan. R&D is the "seed corn" that leads to nww jobs.   ,    http://news.com.com/2009-1001-940319.html,    Tapping brainpower - Tech News - CNET.com    lH   "...While many technology giants are expanding manufacturing plants inI    China, a significant number of multinationals are increasingly combingnD    the mainland for engineers and researchers to handle projects forG    global applications that, in recent years, would have been performed.*    in labs in the United States or Europe.    rD    "I'm hiring Ph.D.s with years of experience for less than what itE    would cost to hire a new college grad out of Stanford," said ChieffH    Executive Al Sisto of Phoenix Technologies, a software company in San    Jose, Calif.i    f	    [snip],  J    An estimated 700,000 engineers graduate annually from China's schools, 8    and U.S. companies want to get the cream of the crop.    aE    "We are putting our design centers where the talent is," Intel CEOtG    Craig Barrett said when asked about the chipmaker's research centers =    in China and Russia. "We'll just chase the best talent..."u    eH    http://www.townhall.com/columnists/paulcraigroberts/pcr20020425.shtml    Smug in a no-think existencea  A   "...Another misconception is that China's economy is a giganticpI    sweatshop, cheap labor but low tech. According to the Financial Times,-H    this comforting view is out of date. The rapid shift of manufacturingI    to China by multinational companies has taken research and development8    with it.w  H         Intel, IBM, Motorola, Lucent Technologies, GE and Microsoft wereI    among the first to set up R&D labs in China, where skilled researchers I    can be hired at one-third the U.S. wage. The United States has trained H    enough Chinese scientists and engineers to support a massive shift in3    R&D from the United States (and Japan) to China.   H         The R&D trickle has become a flood. This month, Emerson ElectricG    announced that it is moving at least half of its engineering work to F    China and India by the end of this year. Emerson's CEO, David Farr,C    said, "When we finish this calendar year 2002, 70 percent of our60    manufacturing will be in low-cost countries."  H         Black & Decker, battery-maker Evercel, and auto parts maker LearG    Corp have recently announced closure of U.S. operations and moves to.	    China.   F         The Japanese are headed there as well. Matsushita has opened aI    R&D lab in China that will employ 1,750 Chinese engineers within a few H    years. Nomura is shifting software projects to China and will soon beB    employing 1,000 Chinese engineers. For its new chip developmentD    center, Toshiba is hiring 1,000 Chinese engineers. Hitachi, Sony,G    Pioneer, Fujitsu, NEC, Honda and Yamaha have announced plans for R&D     operations in China..."  B The trade deficit with Communist China set a new record in August:  B    http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/18/news/economy/trade.ap/index.htm,    Trade deficit hits record - Oct. 18, 2002      aF   "...As usual, the country's largest deficit was with China, which inC    August climbed to a record $10.9 billion. America's deficit with0I    Mexico, one of its partner in the North American Free Trade Agreement,y"    rose to a record $3.5 billion."  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emails   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:06:30 GMTt1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) @ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!< Message-ID: <GXct9.189705$Fw2.5353695@twister.austin.rr.com>  F Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= (jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de) wrote:I : >         Where is the next uptick?  I don't know.  But I am willing to09 : >         bet it comes from the U.S.  Innovators 'R US.e : K : Your semi-inifinite supply of lawyers, coupled with a justice system thatiI : no longer is worth the title, will likely make sure that cannot happen.. : F Every now and then, the U.S. justice system does come through, such asH in the case of the workers in the sweatshops in U.S.-controlled Saipan. C The corporations, through their influence over the legislative and h5 executive branch thwarted any relief for the workers:y  A    http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/saipan0331.htmlt  3    ABCNEWS.com :  Forced Labor, Abortions in Saipan   #   "...Millions Spent to Sway Votes    B    Saipan has spent millions on Washington lobbyists and given topF    Republicans in Congress free trips to the beautiful Pacific island,B    including one over Christmas for House Majority Whip Tom DeLay.  D    "You represent everything that is good about what we're trying toG    do in America," he told outgoing Governor Froilan Tenorio, a distantmF    cousin of the current governor, at a dinner in Saipan this past New    Year's eve.  C    DeLay and other Republicans have vowed to fight to keep the lawsM    the way they are on Saipan."n  F Abortions must be okay if they help enrich corporations who contribute to campaign relection funds. O  B But several organizations filed class action lawsuits on behalf of5 the workers, which have finally recieved some relief:   =    http://www.sweatshopwatch.org/marianas/2002settlement.html=K    SWEATSHOP WATCH: Stop Saipan Sweatshops -  Retailers Agree to Settlementa    eL   "U.S. Clothing Retailers on Saipan Settle Landmark Workers' Rights Lawsuit&                                       L    Retailers and Manufacturers to Fund Groundbreaking Independent Monitoring8    Program To Improve Labor Conditions on U.S. Territory     H   "...The seven U.S. retailers - Abercrombie & Fitch, Target, Gap, Inc.,G    J.C. Penney Company, Inc., Lane Bryant, Inc., The Limited, Inc., anddJ    Talbots, Inc. - join 19 other retailers that had previously settled..."    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaill9   "We don't have a democracy, we have an auction." - anonn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:08:27 +0100M' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy @ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!. Message-ID: <3DB55BDB.8060907@nospamn.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message' > <3DB3E06B.6060600@nospamn.sun.com>...a >  >> >>Shane Smith wrote: >>I >>>Agreed. Still, I have to admit the thought of Andy reading through alln; >>>the "Andy is a moron" votes is strangely pleasing... ;-)p >>>u >>. >>Sorry to dissapoint you but Freddys immature0 >>poll caused me to laugh when I saw it and I am" >>still laughing at the responses. >> >  > N > Really?  On reflection you might ask why there was nearly no support for youN > at all.  Most people thought is was silly, but then gave you a finger in the > eye. >  >   1 Well most people havn't worked out that your only>5 tactic when cornered is to resort to abuse, memorably.4 calling one of your own customers a Fwit or words to that effect in a discussion.  2 In this case your shoot the messenger tactics also/ play very well with some of the posters to this 
 newsgroup.  4 What they also don't seem to have worked out is that5 while you can probably be relied to provide responsesf7 on keyboard drivers or whatever it is that you actually 3 do, you arn't as you track record of abject failure>/ demonstrates a usefull source of information on 2 most of the other subjects that you choose to make	 your own.   8 You appear to be trading on a technical reputation while8 wanting to get involved in discussions that appear to be  outside your area of competence.  / >>It confirms that when stuck for response Fred , >>will alway resort to abuse or in this case  >>abuse and incitement to abuse. >> >  > L > No, really?  Here is some more.  A conversation with you is like trying to > kill a cockroach.  >   * Ahh so are you also Freddy the Verminator.   > , >>Or didn't you notice Freds total lack of a- >>response apart from the "poll", sad really.  >> >  > J > Oh, I've responded so much to your crap, only to have you ignore things,M > change the subject, or make things up.  The best way to end them is to just E > stop responding to you.  Since you seemed to want to set it up as af- > challenge, I was more than happy to oblige.- >   0 Get real Fred you were the person who ducked the/ interesting SPEC discussion we were having whenu you got out of your depth.   Ditto Alpha performance. Ditto SPARC performance." Ditto Sun's financial performance.  * Well to be fair you suggested a cease fire0 but then you couldn't resist resuming hostilites at the earliest opportunityt  / I could go on and on with a list of discussionss- that we have had over the last 18 months thatn0 have been teminated by you descending into abuse, without having sucessfully held up your side of the argument.  3 I particularly liked your tricked out SPEC postingsi5 most illuminating though not for the reasons you wereh1 hoping. It encapulated everything that makes yourr6 postings outside your area of competence so worthless.   Regardst Andrew Harrisonv   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:54:35 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>s@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!1 Message-ID: <LEdt9.15$SL.413787@news.cpqcorp.net>   2 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message% <3DB55BDB.8060907@nospamn.sun.com>...O  6 Do you really believe (or read) any of what you write?   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 02 16:12:26 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)e Subject: Re: HP webpage sizing) Message-ID: <5eeqyp8YvgYy@elias.decus.ch>a  c In article <a7YQieoW2AwH@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:nk > In article <3DB4444C.D2867D00@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:h > K >> Too bad if you are in Europe - or many other countries - and you want to ! >> print the webpage on A4 paper,- > E >    You guys just don't know how to kill trees, er, um, save skiers.  > I It is an extremely annoying problem, not only restricted to the hp/Compaq. site.s   --  
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandbE Back in my IBM days, I was convinced that IBM had major shareholdings]J in forestry and paper mills. You couldn't stop all that JCL spewing forth.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 09:01:28 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)>2 Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0210220801.357bf083@posting.google.com>a  ; My presentations from HP-ETS (and HP World) may be found ata0 http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/, as usual.   HP-ETS:a?  o  OpenVMS Disaster-Tolerant Clusters: 1-day seminar; hands-ono workshop; lecture session.?  o  OpenVMS Cluster Internals & Data Structures: 1-day seminar.P@  o  Volume Shadowing Performance: lecture session.  This has the2 results of some recent tests of shadow-copy times.  	 HP World:nC  o  Disaster-Tolerant Cluster Technology and Implementation: 2-hourb? tutorial (covers DT clusters across the range of HP platforms).   E (If you have trouble reaching this site, be patient -- GeoCities will5F temporarily cut off access during periods when access rates are high.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:34:03 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG2 Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line0 Message-ID: <00A15D4F.C4A934CD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <cf15391e.0210220801.357bf083@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:c< >My presentations from HP-ETS (and HP World) may be found at1 >http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/, as usual.  >n >HP-ETS:@ > o  OpenVMS Disaster-Tolerant Clusters: 1-day seminar; hands-on >workshop; lecture session.i@ > o  OpenVMS Cluster Internals & Data Structures: 1-day seminar.A > o  Volume Shadowing Performance: lecture session.  This has theu3 >results of some recent tests of shadow-copy times.d >.
 >HP World:D > o  Disaster-Tolerant Cluster Technology and Implementation: 2-hour@ >tutorial (covers DT clusters across the range of HP platforms). > F >(If you have trouble reaching this site, be patient -- GeoCities willG >temporarily cut off access during periods when access rates are high.)    Keith,  D They are accessible but of no value to me as I cannot display a .PPTD file.  I suspect that this is the case of presentations I cannot ac-? cess at HPets2002.com because of a "security library" error.   -   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm            >5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:49:25 -0700h, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>& Subject: Jpeg librar y for Imagemagick4 Message-ID: <ap3hgm$r5pcd$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  @ Where can I get this?  I've built Imagemagick fine but need this# library for processing jpeg images.t   Any pointers appreciated.i   Jim    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:16:28 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Jpeg librar y for Imagemagick5 Message-ID: <Mcct9.119673$N_6.1693174@news.chello.at>f  c In article <ap3hgm$r5pcd$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>, "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes: A >Where can I get this?  I've built Imagemagick fine but need thisg$ >library for processing jpeg images.  4 I think I saw that GHOSTSCRIPT uses and delivers it.  0 Check yourself at	http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/   -- r Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt% Network and OpenVMS system specialistl E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2002 23:47:35 -0700$ From: ray31924@mail.com (Ray Tracey) Subject: Micro$oft propaganda@= Message-ID: <fd73c337.0210212247.1ad52294@posting.google.com>e   * BSD corrected to BSOD8$ From: ray31924@mail.com (Ray Tracey) Newsgroups: aus.computers  Subject: Microsoft propagandap! NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.111.34i= Message-ID: <fd73c337.0210202251.3c3071ef@posting.google.com>   $ From: ray31924@mail.com (Ray Tracey)! Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft  Subject: microz0ft pr0paganda ! NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.111.34d< Message-ID: <fd73c337.0210192258.1296566@posting.google.com>  7 WINDOWS 2000 SERVER - The Essential Resource for System % Administrators, Matthew Strebe, 2002.a    0 I came across this book in the library recently.: Below are some extracts ( marked with * ) and my comments.2 Purports to be a technical manual on Windows 2000.C In my oponion is nothing more than thinly disguised pro Microsoft -  anti-Linux - propagandaI@ masquerding as impartial technical advice. This spends more time' knocking Linux than imparting W2k info.o  E Judging by the amount of references on it's web site ( 2390 ) then we & can be sure that MS has targeted LINUXD as enemy number one. Novel only rates 4980. By contrast Novell talks) about W2K only 18 times on it's web site.s    D This makes one suspect that *nix is upper most in the minds of those at ONE MICROSOFT WAY,yD In its own way it's very flatering . On the other hand it's scary asC it's most apparent that billig has Linux firmly in the cross-hairs.   D This book is full of mis-information and half-truths. The message we can take from here is thatD the rest don't rate as serious competitors. It's no coincidence that LINUX is being targeted likeB this, as all other competitors have been firmly dispached. You can take it that MS see's thisD as the only creditable competition for the future ! Hence the effort being made in trashing it  in the media and on the web.  ? A favourite methodology of MR Straube and one generally used ini! statements coming out of Redmond.aE Is an ambigous or blatently incorrect technical statement included ind with some opposition bashing.e  D Take the following "facts" from just one document, a msWord Document
 naturally.  B a) "There are significant costs associated with "retail-hardening" Linux."E  = b) "Most Linux distributors make their money by selling their.	 services"P  @ c) "Because of this open nature, developers can much more easily identifyB security weaknesses and prey upon them with viruses and by hacking3 into systems" - ( developers ?- shurly hackers, ed)l  D d) "Open source ... find security weaknesses very easily with Linux"  D e) "Microsoft Windows has better security than Linux out of the box"O    http://www.microsoft.com/europe/industry/downloads/retail/Linux%20report.doc     B re a) Linux needs retail-hardening - The conclusion we are ment to make is Linux is somehow soft !g? Therefore Windows is somehow harder and the yard stick by which5 measurements are made.  F re b) Yea distributers make money by selling their services. Just like" MS does. What is wrong with that ?D Is is somehow un-American for someone else to make a buck out of the software business.  B re c) Get that - open source is less secure BECAUSE developers can identify weaknesses (er BUGS ).c8 I'm no semiotic expert but that don't even make scence !  F re d) and e) you get so totally saturated that you give up. Resistance is futile, naturally.   E Once they dispach LINUX it will then, for all  practible purposes, beN a MICROSOFT WORLD.C A new dark ages of I.T will open up. A thousand years of BSOD's and  treacly slow popdown menus.         * = quotations from the text ... [] = Main Headers ...=    3 *  The Essential Resource for System Administrators' *  WINDOWS 2000 SERVER
 *		   24sevene *		   Matthew Strebe *s *	Copyright 2002 SYBEX Inc.  *  *    [ Introduction ] page xxx  C *	... Windows2000 is the most advanced most highly evolved software8 produced by F *	any company ever, it is the flagship product of the largest software developement company *	in the world....4 *		            .... other platforms are now obsolite  : The audicity of this comment just takes your breath away !E He's actually using the term "highly evolved software" and Windows inC the same sentence !m8 Doing a google turns up  - "did not match any documents"D So Matthew, if you really think this - you're in a minority of one !    	 page xxxvyB *	I've also assumed that you are running Windows 2000 on the Intel platfrom. I do not havecF *	access to an Alpha server and have only worked with one once, so I'm not really qualifiedE *	to write about them. Other platforms are now completly obsolete, so-
 if you havn't-B *	migrated from them to Intel, you should consider doing that now. Sadly, there doesn't@ *	seem to be room for more than one microprocessor in the world.    C Other platforms are now completly obsolete. Are you listening MIPS,n AMD, DEC, Hitachi,C Texas Instruments etc - you all are obsolete ! Resistance is futileD ... and so on.  F There is also the question of the dangers of having just one processor in the computing world.c@ Just as in nature when a bug or virus comes along, having a good genetic spread means that thea3 whole species doesn't get wiped out in an epedimic.u  > The same could als be be said about the advisability of having "Windows everywhere".eA The opposite case could be argued eg having a number of differents hardware platforms runningF on a number of different operating systems to give the best protection" against viruses, hack attacks etc.  7 But wait I can hear you say, what about compatibility ?m@ That would be no problem if everyone wrote to the same protocol.C Instead of deliberatly polluting the protocols in order to lock outt the competition.@ Standards are freely available on the Internet as RFC documents.5 Anyone can access these and write their own software.n  D I realise this is old news to most of you but I'm aiming this to the general publicC who is under the impression that billyg invented the micro-computera and the Internet: and that there is only one processor manufacturer - Intel.    
 [ Part 1 ]   page #3o  = *	Windows 2000 is an amazing operating system; it is the mosto sophisticated and usefull ? *	operating system ever developed. Most amazing is the relativem simplicity of Windows 2000'sC *	basic architecture. From a few simple design decisions springs anr operating system capable of @ *	running the most complex software available across a number of processors in a single2 *	machine on virtually any processor architecture.  A most over bloated kludge ever foisted on a gullable public - moren likely.o  E relative simplicity ? The admin tools need third party admin tools tos
 use properly.h  E Even doing something as simple as forwarding email requires selectingt amoung several screens.rA You need the manual in front of you in order to keep your place. i> What then does the manual give you - pictures of screen shots.  > Any processor as long as it's a little endian Intel processor.0 Apple Mac's use a Big Endian Motorola processor.  D sophisticated .. ever developed :- As compared to what one may ask ?E What independent and unbiased body has W2K been submitted to in orderb to qualify for such a claim ?   A What other O.S has the author experience of in order to make suchn claims ?     page #3e  7 *	Once you understand the architecture of Windows 2000,e9 *	its sometimes inexplicable behavour becomes explicable.   < For a graphical user interface, one would assume that it was
 intuitive.? This is obviously not the case. What one is presented with is a % massive laundry list of menu options.03 eg select an option, select a sub-option and so on.y     page #3   F *	Although I wrote this chapter primarily for administrators migrating from other operat- *	ing systems like UNIX ...t  E Hint Hint. Have you got that, people only MIGRATE fron other O.Ss nota the other way around!      page #4   = *	Windows 2000 is the latest incarnation of Windows NT, whicha Microsoft created toD *	compete directly against OS/2, Netware and UNIX in the file server and small applica- *	tion server markets.    C VAX/VMS doesn't rate a mention. Consider your selves lucky that hisr' billness hasn't made you a partner yet.  .eB Bwfore I.B.M and Microsoft fell out, Windows NT was known as  OS/2
 Version 3.@ OS/2 ran windows apps better tham windows and was reported to be crash-proof. .eF December, 1987 - OS/2 1.00  was the first ever O.S with hardware based
 multitasking. < October 1988 OS/2 version 1.10 released with a GUI released > No problem running on Intel, Motorola, SUN, and DEC processorsE 1993 Version 2.11 released with Symmetric Multi-Processing (SMP) when-# Windows was still at the 3.x stage.1 .0E Developement continued but by 1990 I.B.M and Microsoft had parted and ! MS RENAMED OS/2 V3 to Windows NT.n@ OS/2 version 1.20 EE came with REXX a very powerful interpretive programming language. C Complete applications can be written in this or used as a powerfull0 batch language.  . @ Netware - according to the MS support web site should already be	 deceased.lE "How to Migrate or Deploy a Novell NetWare Environment to Windows" ish
 typical ofA "technical" articles on the site. In case you still don't get theg hint, @ they use the words "legacy" and "Netware" in the same sentence. : Mr Strebe is also prone to employing the same methodology.     page #4n  C *	The market for networking operating systems has changed completlye since the early days oftE *	Windows NT: OS/2 has been completly dispatched as a competitor, and, Novell NetWareA *	is losing ground so quickly that the company will likely not beh profitable this year.   C My understanding is that OS/2 was a joint venture between I.B.M andu
 Microsoft.F It's even been claimed that MS effectivly sabotaged OS/2 while waiting for Windows95 to mature.B I suppose the only real difference to being a Microsoft competitor> is that they take longer in getting around to to screwing you. .w< I'm sure that Novell is thankful for that financial forcast.9 Whats more don't even buy shares in the company everyone.h     page #4   C *	Although Nt currently supports more native services and is vastly  eas-D *	ier to configure and manage, Linux is catching up fast and gaining momentum and wide- *	industrial support.c  @ "more native services" - Sounds suspiciously like an advertising slogan.:D Our product has MORE of what ever it is. Anyone on comp.*nix care to comment. ._> "easier to configure" - yes if you call filling in check boxes configuring ando0 editing a text file is beyond your capabilities. . E "Linux is catching up fast" - again notice how Linux gets singled out  for special attention.D Why is this ? answer it's the ONLY real threat that the BORG can see on the horision.     page #5o   *	Platform independance ...o  C Intel only - this has more to do with microsoft politicing than any  technical reason.    page #5S   *	Multithreadeda *	Pervasive security  E Of course the memory management subsystem would have to be rock solido otherwise you endmC up with things like BUFFER OVERFLOWS and processes able to write toe each others memory .E? Since memory management is handled within windows. It's only asn reliable as the underlying O.SE and we all knw how reliable that is. For instance things like the red' alert virus functioned bylF writing to place in memory that it shouldn't have. Such "security" has as much enforcement as a line in the sand.      page #5d  C *	........................................................  Windowsd 2000 implements symmet-nE *	rical multiprocessing (SMP), meaning that all processors are loaded0 as equally as possible.E *	...w  > Linux 2.0 also supports SMP as does Mac OS9, OS/2 Warp Server.     page #6   * *	Reality check: Multithreaded Application  F *	The Web service of internet information Server (IIS) is an excellent
 example  of ae *	multithreaded application.    F It's also an excellent example of a buffer overflow when used with the Code Red Worm.D where an attacker can gain full SYSTEM access. Again buffer overflow is a failure of ? the underlying system to manage memory properly. Ideally memoryo management should be) done in hardware not by a system process.      page #6    [ Large Address Space ]t  E *   Huge applications that efficiently use enormous amounts of memoryn require a "flat" or B *   linear memory space of 32 bits (or 4GB). However, Windows 2000 uses the high bit toD *	seperate kernal mode from user mode, so only 31 bits are acctually available for user *	processes (2GB)... etc  E This just seems to me as a reinvention of the switched mode segmented 
 memory model.c< By rights memory allocation should be done by the hardware - transparent to the processor.t: That's why they put a halt pin on the processor isn't it ?; It should be obvious to all that the WINTEL memory model is  fundementally flawed./     page #7.  E *	Windows 2000 is currently being developed for the new Intel Itaniumm line of processors *	that use a 64-bit word size.  E I'm sure Linux went 64 bits a good while ago. On the Alpha I believe.-    % This bit deserves quotation in full !2   page #81  E *	NOTE Windows 2000 actually only supports microprocessors capable ofm oper-.: *	ating in the little-endian byte order mode used by intel microprocessors. Endian3C *	refers to byte order of a stored 32-bit word: storing a word with 
 the most sig- B *	nificant byte first is big endian: storing a word with the least significant byte first@ *	is little endian. Most modern processors (except those made by Intel) can switchtD *	between big-endian and little-endian modes: but an actual computer may beB *	hardware-limited to one mode or the other. For example while the PowerPC pro-E *	cessor can run in either mode, the processor is likely hardwired ino the big-endianE *	mode on the Apple Macintosh, which would make it impossible to portw Win- *	dows 2000 to that platform.a  D That's utter bilge water, if you don't mind me saying so - Matthew !C The reason W2K doesn't run on the Mac is because Bill Gates doesn'to own it ! . 8 How difficult can it be to produce a big-endian compile.4 Just set some options in a MAKE file and off you go.( The *NIX people have no such difficulty.     page #9i   [ PERVASIVE SECURITY ]  C *	Pervasive Security provides an environment wherein an application- can be certain thats its? *	data has not been modified by another application on the same< machine. Applications.F *	running on the same machine cannot violate the memory space of other
 applications,BF *	which prevents both accidental crashes and malicious theft  of data. Despite the steady5 *	stream of news about esoteric bugs in Windows 2000.a  F Esoteric bugs ??? - Red Alert "infected" through a unicode string in a URL string. . All it took was to enable support for Unicode.6 NO checks were then performed on such encoded strings.  B Ms excuses this and other viruses on globalization and support for other languages.B How can modifying the character coding lead to effectivly breaking+ security in a totally unrelated sub-system. B Did no-one ask the question at the developement stage ? Answer NO!     page #10  # [ PERVASIVE INTERNET CONNECTIVITY ]   @ *	Windows 2000 builds on the Internetworking improvements of its predecessor, Windows NT.E *	The first version of Windows NT didn't even include a TCP/IP stack.  From these humble begin-9 *	ings springs Windows 2000, which includes more Internetg% compatibility features as part of the B *	operating  system than any other operating system ever released, including UNIX and Linux. B *	Unlike Windows NT, TCP/IP is a required part of the Windows 2000 operating system and can-  *	not be uninstalled.v  F Trumpet Winsock was what provided Internet connectivity for windows up until win95 2 As Novel showed the way with its file server suit.7 W2K has only just about reached its level of usability.    page #10  " *	State-of-the-art Web browser ...  C Didn't even have a browser, had to license Internet Explorer 3 fromr	 Spyglass,tF then given away for free. Spyglass then sued MS and eventually settled
 out of court.tC Spyglass nearly went bankrupt. Spyglass is no longer in the browsers	 business.      [ WINDOWS 2000 ARCHITECTURE ]t  C *	Windows 2000 is a preemptive multitasking operating system, whichh means it can do   *	more than one thing at a time.  8 It would be if it wasn't running on the WinTel platform.B You may have heard of WinModems - that is reduced function modems,5 most of their functionality being handled by windows.m .i? Well the Intel P-what-ever-it-is is essentally a Win Processor,c7 where a lot of the functionality is handled by windows.cC Things like memory management and graphics functions. Remember MMX.t .rC What's happening is Intel hacks the processor to run Windows fastert andPE Microsoft in turn hacks Windows in order to get more speed out of thev
 processor.* Such a system is fundamentally unreliable.     page #11  C *	... The kernel and all drivers share a single address space; theyg are protected fromD *	other processes but not from each other. This process memory space is called the KERNEL *	MODE.   B Otherwise known as ring 0 or conventional memory. They also had to move some user processesA into "ring 0", in order to speed up Windows, thereby compromisinga	 security.h     page #12   [ PAGE-PROTECTION ]i   This one deserves a full quote   page #18  E *	Windows 2000 is poised to close the remaining gap. Microsoft took a 	 long hards? *	look at Linux, the operating system they consider to be their- primary competition now,F *	and made certain that everything Linux could do, Windows 2000 Server could do better.C *	The list of network services added to Windows 2000 is impressive:: LDAP directory sup-R? *	port with Active Directory, operating system integration DNS,9 Kerberos secure authenti- ? *	cation, IPSec (which Linux does not support), network addresse translation and numerousF *	routing protocols, and multiuser terminal sessions. Windows 2000 has always been betterD *	at managed-user-based security and administrative convenience. For many sites, UNIXB *	will remain only for inexpensive mail services because Microsoft does not provide light- ? *	weight (POP3 and SMTP mail tools with their operating system.e *     C Active Directory uses a non-standard DNS and will not function witht Industry standard DNS servers.E It also has to introduce "forests" to represent admin boundarys in and
 AD schema.F Compare this to Novell's NDS which uses a single tree to represent all network resources.> These forests are nothing more than WinNT Domains in disguise.E Having to break the convention in order to work doesn't strike one asa too clever.m  A "operating system integration DNS" What possible benefit is it toa0 their customers of integrating DNS into the O.S.E It strikes me that they are trying to do here with DNS what they haves$ all ready achieved with the browser,A effectivly monopolising the desktop. They will achiwe witt AD and"6 msDNS what they coudn't do with the Microsoft Network,E effectivly controling the Internet. When we get to this stage MS willi1 of course claim that msDNS cannot be removed fromg2 the O.S as it is a fundemental past of the system.  B They HAD TO move to Kerberos as a replacement for their own flawed" product. Kerberos as a replacementD for the WinNT login where captured hashs of the login sequence could" be cracked to reveal the password.  E "Microsoft Kerberos" is not compatible with the Industry Standard. Itr" uses non standard ports and unusedF fields to communicate, a UDP connection and a non-standard TCP socket.! The function for the second seemspE to be to allow W2K to pull down masses of non-kerberos data on a slowc# commection, possible user profiles.aE This reminds me of roaming profiles on WINNT and we couldn't even getn that to work across a room,r never mind a continent.   F This can only be seen as an attempt to lockout that other "legacy" non MS version, MIT Kerberos.o? You can license  msKerberos from Microsoft if you want to writen software to this specification. C The audicity of this really amases me. They take a public protocol,r mangle it slightly,tB and then sell it back to people. I'm supprised the Kerberos people' havn't pursued this through the courts.r  C IPSec not supported  ? - this quotation from  Linux magazine springa 1999? "the current IPSec implementation for Linux is a kernel module"l    = "Windows 2000 always been better" - Like since January 2000 ?r  D "managed-user-based security" what exactly does this mean. Is this a  quotation from a Dilbert strip ?D It reminds me of the kind of thing that the pointy haired boss would
 come up with.t= A mishmash of vaguely intellegent sounding marketing slogans.aC Think about it for a moment ... and what does it amount to, EXACTLYU NOTHING.  @ Get the message, use Unix for that crappy pop service, we're not interested in that ( yet ).p   page #20    - * FTP is not a REAL file sharing protocol ...n        E It continues on in like vein for over 300 pages. At this point I gave  up.s  A 		...............................................................p   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:02:07 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>o! Subject: Re: Micro$oft propaganda , Message-ID: <3DB5140F.4070407@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Ray Tracey wrote:c     [snipped for brevity]/   Ray,  I What parts of this looks like are reminiscent of the Halloween documents d of a few years ago.    [Personal woes]   C I cannot give you a reference as my company no longer allows me to eF access the internet.  All my work is on VMS for our engineering users I and they use Billy-boy's authentication so I no longer can access www or rI even FTP.  (After losing my zzz sub-domain directly to my VMS account, I oF have to use Mozilla to access a stupid Outlook account -- this I have G been told [gleefully by our anti-VMS PHB brigade] will also shortly be LL taken from me.  My demise from Info-VAX is becoming more and more imminent.)   [End of personal woes]  @ But such reports/comments/books as this are lapped up by the IT C illiterate, who now regretfully run IT in many organisations.  The  F belief is that anything that comes from the BG camp is innovative and  world-shattering.c  F Regards, Paddy  (a disillusioned programmer of over 30 years, who now F has to acknowledge that the computer controls me -- and apologies for * the crap that will be added beneath here.)        G ***********************************************************************s  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedn> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.o  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the t= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with rC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************i   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2002 08:22:40 GMT( From: per@nospam.mimer.se (Per Schrder)$ Subject: Re: Monitor System Question8 Message-ID: <Xns92AF6AB77C5F7pescatmimer@195.58.103.121>  = Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in  0 <01KNXIP5KJCQ9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>:  F >The memory display has units;; the others don't.  The units in these F >cases are all pure numbers, except for CPU, which is per cent.  Note 6 >that the maximum scales with the number of CPUs.  :-)  I One thing that has always bothered me is the MONITOR PROC/TOPCPU display.r  G The first three quartiles (0%-25%, 25%-50%, 50%-75%) are ten character  7 cells wide. But the fourth is eleven character cells!!!c  ! What kind of scale is that??  ;-)s   -- -
 /Per Schrderr http://developer.mimer.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:57:58 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> $ Subject: Re: Monitor System Question; Message-ID: <01KNYOI3V5ZM9QXRDQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>c  K > One thing that has always bothered me is the MONITOR PROC/TOPCPU display.H > I > The first three quartiles (0%-25%, 25%-50%, 50%-75%) are ten character 09 > cells wide. But the fourth is eleven character cells!!!i > # > What kind of scale is that??  ;-)    Interesting.  9 Definitely, someone In The Know needs to comment on this.A  I Perhaps the idea is to give a bit more resolution at the high end, since eF if two processes are using about the same amount of CPU, you are more H interested in which is using more at the high end than at the low end.  E But in that case, the scale should be even more non-linear, like the lF fuel gauge on a car (but in reverse, with more resolution at the high 5 end, not at the low end which is important for fuel).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:43:28 -0700o* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>$ Subject: Re: Monitor System Question+ Message-ID: <3db580d8$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>o  K I think it's simply the result of trying to keep the data entirely "within" E the outline of the scale.  A 100% reading starts one cell in from thehF leftmost graph boundary, and ends one cell in from the rightmost graphI boundary.  The designers allow the bar to cross the percentile lines, buthC not those of 0 and 100 (see below).  That's what it looks like on a>K character-cell terminal anyway.  I can't get this stupid Outlook Express tosF show fixed-width fonts, so hopefully it hasn't been mangled too badly.  I As for "resolution", it would be more useful to have the actual CPU usagetG displayed numerically "on top of" or at the end of the individual bars,o$ perhaps with a decimal place or two.      3                             OpenVMS Monitor Utility 3                              TOP CPU TIME PROCESSESe.                                  on node HOBBY3                             22-OCT-2002 09:32:35.11a  E                                      0         25        50        75t 100 B                                      + - - - - + - - - - + - - - - + - - - - -+$  00000117  SETI@home 54%         100( ########################################D                                      |         |         |         | |e  00000154  SYSTEM D                                      |         |         |         | |F  D                                      |         |         |         | |   D                                      |         |         |         | |   D                                      |         |         |         | |o  D                                      |         |         |         | |   D                                      |         |         |         | |i  B                                      + - - - - + - - - - + - - - - + - - - - -+     Aldero    F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KNYOI3V5ZM9QXRDQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...tD > > One thing that has always bothered me is the MONITOR PROC/TOPCPU display. > > J > > The first three quartiles (0%-25%, 25%-50%, 50%-75%) are ten character; > > cells wide. But the fourth is eleven character cells!!!  > >e% > > What kind of scale is that??  ;-)  >e > Interesting. >n; > Definitely, someone In The Know needs to comment on this.l > J > Perhaps the idea is to give a bit more resolution at the high end, sinceG > if two processes are using about the same amount of CPU, you are more@H > interested in which is using more at the high end than at the low end.F > But in that case, the scale should be even more non-linear, like theG > fuel gauge on a car (but in reverse, with more resolution at the highi7 > end, not at the low end which is important for fuel).c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:22:51 +0100K% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>C( Subject: Re: New User/Owner VMS question8 Message-ID: <3d2aru40ench0heevbf6gdj1m9d3alt4n4@4ax.com>  B On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:46:25 -0700, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:  I >I personally find Hyperterm within a hair of useless. Go find a piece ofe, >freeware called TeraTerm, it's much better.  > The version of Hyperterm Microsoft distribute is intentionallyD broken.. The version referred to in the post you are following up toD is the free personal upgrade to a non broken version provided by its authors.  ( http://www.hilgraeve.com/htpe/index.html< "HyperTerminal Private Edition is a more powerful version ofB HyperTerminal, which comes in Windows 95, Windows 98, and NT 4.0.   F Hilgraeve began providing "private editions" of HyperTerminal free forD personal use shortly after Microsoft launched Windows 95, to satisfyC end user requests and increase public awareness of HyperACCESS, its < full-featured product from which HyperTerminal is derived."      >Shane >o >-----Original Message----- + >From: Echoes [mailto:echoes@somewhere.com]1( >Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 12:14 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com) >Subject: Re: New User/Owner VMS question  >d >c > / >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageeC >news:9cAs9.24690$Q3S.20388@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...s >> ><snip >>K >> IIRC, the 3100 has a thinwire and thickwire ethernet port, but not a now-L >> standard UTP RJ-45 type jack. It has a DEC MMJ jack for a VT-xxx or otherJ >> DEC gear. In order to connect a PC with a 'normal' ethernet card to theH >> thin/thick wire port, you will need a transceiver that converts to an >RJ-45 >> style jack. >> >-) >If I'm understanding all this correctly:  >aH > Get a MMJ to serial port null modem cable if I want to attach directly >toh= >my PC if I don't want to buy a DEC monitor, and download thea >HyperTerminalG >Private Edition (or get comparable product). Of course, I have to have- >free  >serial port on PC.o >a >oru >r3 > Get a MMJ cable to attach from VAX to DEC monitorn >  >orO >VH >I asume your comment on PC with ethernet and RJ-45 wasn't about monitor. >connection but more about general networking? >r >l >Kavok >r   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 08:42:57 -0700- From: carlos.costa@datawest.ca (Carlos Costa)a! Subject: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWINGn= Message-ID: <7edc7395.0210220742.6bd0ce68@posting.google.com>i   Hello, everyone.  A I recently upgraded VMS to 7.3-1 (from VMS 7.3-0) on two separaterD clusters. I have also been using CSWING for years now on various VMS versions and I love it.P  D However, in 7.3-1 CSWING no longer works (it does under 7.3-0). WhenA it goes to search a new directory tree it goes off to never-never  land.A  F Has anyone else experienced this, and more importantly, is there a fix out?  D This problem is also disconcerting because 7.3-1 has, in HP/Compaq's> own words, "100% binary compatibility with previous versions".   Thanks in advance.   Carlos   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:36:45 GMTD4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWINGi1 Message-ID: <N0gt9.22$oF.272542@news.cpqcorp.net>s  : "Carlos Costa" <carlos.costa@datawest.ca> wrote in message7 news:7edc7395.0210220742.6bd0ce68@posting.google.com...m  F > This problem is also disconcerting because 7.3-1 has, in HP/Compaq's@ > own words, "100% binary compatibility with previous versions".  G Does CSWING use all public interfaces or CMKRNL to interrogate internal  data structures?   mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:48:05 +0100l' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyh4 Subject: Re: Originator of detached process from DCL. Message-ID: <3DB55715.7000805@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3DB409CF.6020309@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > A >>It gives you a detached x-windows session. Take your smart card-> >>out and the session keyed to the card keeps running, screens= >>get updated etc, put the card back in again and the sessiond
 >>re-appears.  >  > : >    Get real.  Every X terminal I've ever seen does that. >     2 Bullshit, most X-terminals don't have a smart card reader.p   regardsj Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:45:11 +01002% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>m. Subject: Re: OT - we're back on old cars again8 Message-ID: <6m3aruo28km8jf2nh1b92gl6ehkq8ttj68@4ax.com>  D On 20 Oct 2002 07:08:46 GMT, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) wrote:  G >On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:57:04 UTC, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) d >wrote:o >  >tD >> Ah, the joys of motoring, in the days when one could fix anythingF >> with the odd spanner or two, a pair of pliers, and a screwdriver... > D >Last Saturday my wife went out to her FIAT Punto to do the grocery G >shopping. It was raining, so to clear driver and passenger windows shedD >thought she'd use the, now EC safety-regulation mandated, electric E >windows. Down and up goes the drivers side. Down goes the passenger iG >side and there it stayed. Three  hours later, cold, wet, cut, bleedingsA >and extremely pi**ed off I gave up trying to get the window up.  1 >Progress. (It was the electric motor - jammed!!)s  F I had a Fiat Tipo, The electric windows worked fine but the electronicC dashboard display would often reset itself when driving. Result wasdE all displayed values switched to metric. On a couple of occasions thec= power was cut to the engine fuel pump for no apparent reason.r -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:40:32 -0400e; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e Subject: Re: PCL image$ Message-ID: <3db5718c$1@news.si.com>  K >This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandf= >this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.d  / Please don't post MIME to comp.os.vms.  Thanks.   B >My library on Alpha is a PCL library.  I really need a PCL image.  J PCL is a comand set that controls HP printers (and some emulators of thoseI printers).  It's analogous to ANSI control sequences for VT terminals.  Im* don't think there is a "PCL image" format.  6 >so far I received a JPG (will never work on an Alpha)  L Not true.  XV (freeware) on an Alpha running OpenVMS will display JPEG filesJ just fine.  It will also convert between GIF, JPEG, Postscript, TIFF, PBM, BMP, and other formats.a --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comc= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventw< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:12:18 +0800m) From: "Steven Xie" <r33300@email.mot.com>h Subject: Soft CPU Affinity: off + Message-ID: <ap2tq1$7lc$1@newshost.mot.com>e  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C279DD.69C078B0  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="gb2312" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableo  	 Hi there,s  G I recently upgrade my system from V7.2-1 to V7.3 (ES40, 2CPUs). After =dG the upgrade, when I show process status it always shows like following,n  B   22-OCT-2002 15:09:43.00   User: SYSTEM           Process ID:   = 0000159BG                             Node: MTPAN            Process name: "XIES"   1   Terminal:           NTY1632:  ([10.192.154.94])    User Identifier:    [XIES]   Base priority:      4f&   Default file spec:  USER_DISK:[XIES]   Number of Kthreads: 1f  $   Devices allocated:  MTPAN$NTY1632:     Soft CPU Affinity: off  I I'm kind of confused by the last line (soft CPU Affinity: off), is this = : the new feature of OS V7.3 or something wrong behind this?   Thanks for your time.x Steven  + ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C279DD.69C078B0e Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="gb2312" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printables  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>H <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>d <STYLE></STYLE>n </HEAD>  <BODY>7 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi there,</FONT></DIV>n4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I recently upgrade my system from = V7.2-1 to V7.3=20nH (ES40, 2CPUs). After the upgrade, when I show process status it always = shows=20 like following,</FONT></DIV>4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>2 <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">8   <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>22-OCT-2002 =  15:09:43.00&nbsp;&nbsp; User:=20   =nJ SYSTEM&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;P=	 rocess=20m   ID:&nbsp;&nbsp;=20   =eJ 0000159B<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=J nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20g	   Node: =nJ MTPAN&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20#   Process name: "XIES"</FONT></DIV> >   <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>$   <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20   =bJ size=3D2>Terminal:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= nbsp;=20J   NTY1632:&nbsp; ([10.192.154.94])<BR>User Identifier:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =  G   [XIES]<BR>Base priority:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4<BR>Default =g file=20uD   spec:&nbsp; USER_DISK:[XIES]<BR>Number of Kthreads: 1</FONT></DIV>>   <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>F   <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Devices allocated:&nbsp;=20   MTPAN$NTY1632:</FONT></DIV> >   <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>B   <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Courier = New">Soft CPU=20=   Affinity: off</FONT><BR></STRONG></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> H <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm kind of confused by the = last line (soft=20E CPU Affinity: off), is this the new feature of OS V7.3 or something =e wrong behind=20  this?</FONT></DIV>> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>< <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for your = time.</FONT></DIV># <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial =m* size=3D2>Steven</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C279DD.69C078B0--c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:28:46 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problema, Message-ID: <3DB4F016.84AE2103@videotron.ca>   Carl Karcher wrote: L > The ftp server images (TCPIP$FTP_SERVER and TCPIP$FTP_CHILD) get installedL > with privs somehow - what does it? Try searching TCPIP*.COM for FTP_SERVER& > in both sys$manager and sys$startup.  @ sys$manager:tcpip$ftp_startup.com is the one that does the work.  C TCPIP$FTP_SERVER.EXE gets installed with bypass,detach,sysnam,world   3 TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.EXE gets installed with oper,pswapms    L The procedure doesn't seem to actually start the processes. I think that the2 TCPIP kernel then starts all the enabled services.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:00:01 -0400t; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>#- Subject: Re: TCPIP$FTP_SERVER startup problem $ Message-ID: <3db5761d$1@news.si.com>  L >What version of TCPIP are you running? My info comes from 5.1 eco4 and 5.3.L >I recall there used to be a common procedure that prepared all the services
 >for running.i   I'm using V5.0A.  K >The ftp server images (TCPIP$FTP_SERVER and TCPIP$FTP_CHILD) get installed  >with privs somehowh  G On this version, TCPIP$STARTUP.COM calls TCPIP$SERVICE_SETUP.COM, whichr INSTALLs the two images. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comoA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com0= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventr< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 01:06:22 -0700, From: djurkovic@gmx.net (Matthias Djurkovic)- Subject: Re: Technical Question -- Thank you!n= Message-ID: <c135f52a.0210220006.11e75ab4@posting.google.com>e  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KNXMBFMMPE9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...J > > However, if I have a disk (or better volume, since it's a RAID volume)I > > where I have a database within its pre allocated diskspace and not soVF > > many files that are created and deleted on a regular basis I won'tI > > have any problem as long as I defragment the disk, right? And that isM > > done daily.d > H > Of course, any VMS defragmenter only works with files defragmented at K > the VMS level.  Database files can have "internal defragmentation" which a) > is transparent to a VMS-level debugger.o  B Of course, but the record fragmentation of our databases (yes it'sF RBD) is not that big (we reorganize them regularly and I am on the jobD of storage area tuning to reduce record fragmentation) and it is not2 related to the original statement of my colleague.   Matthias   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:35:14 GMTa2 From: "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom>- Subject: Re: Technical Question -- Thank you! 0 Message-ID: <SJat9.7$sz.197781@news.cpqcorp.net>  E As a general point a half full disk will only seek over a part of the I surface and one might see better seek times than for a "full" drive whereiE I/O requests could land anywhere on the surface. Of course to be sureaJ whether this is better or worse would demand knowledge of block allocation
 and so on.  H However many people believe that a half full disk performs better than a	 full one.f   --" Andrew Dodd - not speaking for HP. Pre-Sales Account Consultant HP Computer Ltds www.hp.com/uk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:30:24 +0200dC From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de>h= Subject: RE: turn a PWS600au to a (nearly) real multimedia PC > Message-ID: <00A15D3E.7EB32561.1@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>   Didier,   H >Instead of asking a question every hour, I may better ask my questions 
 >in one shot.l  J >Who has already turned a vanilia PWS600au running 7.3-1 with 512 Mo to a  >multimedia tabletop?o  
 >audio playere >CD audio player
 >video player  >DVD playere >microphone inputn >etc.   3 >and how? which HW? which drivers? where from? etc.L  . I only can make comments about the DVD-player:  P OpenVMS has no UDF filesystem support. This is essential for reading Video-DVDs.R At the moment you see all filenames of a video-DVD as ISO9660 8.3 truncated names.^ There are linux video-players (i.e. xine) that may be ported to VMS, but I'm not familiar withN the multimedia library specification of linux and of OpenVMS. So this is a big project.   eberhard   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:07:58 -0400F& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>2 Subject: VEST-ing DEC C images -- anyone know how?8 Message-ID: <a4qaru8864ssg3rsen21o0bh44370llnes@4ax.com>  D I got this question from an application person in our company who isF trying to VEST some images which are, apparently, written in DEC C. He  has been unsuccessful with VEST.  ? The following very small test program demonstrates the problem:#   #include <stdio> int main() {/         printf("Test program, now exiting...");p }e  E Compile and link this image on VAX, works fine. Then, try to VEST it:a   $ vest /list hello+ %VEST-W-NOIIF, Error opening interface fileo$ SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR.IIF; --  will assume default interface  -RMS-E-FNF, file not foundE %VEST-W-TRANSWARN, Translation completed with warnings -- review themc before using the output imaget  F Indeed, while there are many .IIF files in SYS$SHARE, there is not one9 for DECC$SHR. Anyway, try to run the resulting _TV image:a   $ run hello_tv3 %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image DECC$SHR_TV % -CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not founde0 DSA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]DECC$SHR_TV.EXE;  F Okay, I agree this file doesn't exist, so all I can think to try is to@ define a logical to the "real" DECC$SHR and try to run it again:  4 $ define decc$shr_tv sys$common:[syslib]decc$shr.exe $ run hello_tv3 %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image DECC$SHR_TV  -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file, DSA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]DECC$SHR.EXE: -SYSTEM-F-SHRIDMISMAT, ident mismatch with shareable image  F Comparison of the image ident of DECC$SHR.EXE between my VAX and Alpha" nodes shows that the VAX ident is:  =         global section major id: %X'02', minor id: %X'000001'y   while the Alpha ident is:r  =         global section major id: %X'01', minor id: %X'000001'e  % Any ideas, suggestions or experience? I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comnI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)sI -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:22:11 -0400b2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancen. Message-ID: <3DB542F2.5644F427@mindspring.com>   Shane Smith wrote:   > Isn't PDF a published format?f  
 Of course.    + > Word certainly wasn't last time I looked,xG > people have to reverse engineer it if they want to write code to readn > it.d  , Also true, but you can gain a lot of insight+ into Word's formats if you read all the RTFw( documentation (which is published). Word* format is an abomination (but you'd expect that from MS, right?).   Atlant   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 02 15:10:38 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)u7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chancew) Message-ID: <X9OLb$kMMf6t@elias.decus.ch>s  c In article <C9JsAbg9x8NS@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:uW > In article <cVu4bCl9Eijx@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:t >>  G >> Even those who are stuck with MS Windows as their (cough) OS, do noteI >> _have_ to use Outlook. There are plenty of cheap or free alternatives.t > F >    Guess again.  I used to delete Outlook.exe from my PCs every timeF >    some patch installed it.  Under the latest service pak on W2K notG >    only did MS change the name to hide the guilty, they made it "parteF >    of" the OS, it's opened at boot, and we've not yet found a way to7 >    make a delete actually work.  Oh, but we've tried!e  E Oh dear. But surely it can't stop you installing an email reader your A own choice? Oops - somewhere I have a dim memory of MS wanting to F implement the idea of "certified" applications, with signatures etc...   --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 12:41:08 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)7 Subject: RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chanceV3 Message-ID: <R5U9OYKjGMat@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  W In article <01C27909.91B88210@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: I > Isn't PDF a published format? Word certainly wasn't last time I looked,-G > people have to reverse engineer it if they want to write code to readt > it.r >   - The PDF format appears to be documented here:r  9 http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/acrosdk/docs.html   6 (About half way down, under File Format Specification)   Simon.   -- nB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 06:22:51 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)D Subject: Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!)3 Message-ID: <+uFo1zC1y2W6@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  j In article <kGWs9.33$RP7.671884@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > I > Actually, you may get your wish, but I can't tell you when.  To do "hot M > swap" you can start at the simple basic level of "replace with an identicalyB > device" - which requires drivers to have a quiece routine, and aM > re-initialize/re-enable routine.  The next step is "hot remove" which would H > logically require a "disconnect/unload" routine.  Once you get to that5 > point, you effectively have the ability to re-load.v > I > So.  I think you have a good chance of seeing it.  But we need to get aa& > bunch of stuff out of the way first. >   M This will be good to see when it arrives. Can I assume (given the common code * base) that this will be on Alpha as well ?   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:42:34 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> D Subject: Re: VMS versions (was: RE: ZDNet says you're dead by 2004!)1 Message-ID: <utdt9.13$SL.413787@news.cpqcorp.net>a  I Simon Clubley wrote in message <+uFo1zC1y2W6@eisner.encompasserve.org>... E >In article <kGWs9.33$RP7.671884@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" % <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:e >>J >> Actually, you may get your wish, but I can't tell you when.  To do "hotD >> swap" you can start at the simple basic level of "replace with an	 identicaliC >> device" - which requires drivers to have a quiece routine, and avH >> re-initialize/re-enable routine.  The next step is "hot remove" which wouldwI >> logically require a "disconnect/unload" routine.  Once you get to that	6 >> point, you effectively have the ability to re-load. >>J >> So.  I think you have a good chance of seeing it.  But we need to get a' >> bunch of stuff out of the way first.e >> >	I >This will be good to see when it arrives. Can I assume (given the commons code+ >base) that this will be on Alpha as well ?a >n  K Yes, I think that would be a good bet.  Although it's not clear exactly howeB much hot-swap capability will be done for Alpha - that's yet to beL determined.  The driver infrastructure however, I would expect to be common.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:20:59 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: VMSJava-L8 Message-ID: <siuarukr4rf65hnk0ia8i71jj0qk7j1a8h@4ax.com>  A On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:15:43 +0200, Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk>h wrote:  0 >To try and create a forum dedicated to Java and  >VMS I have created a mail-list. >r >Details at:' >   http://www.vajhoej.dk/arne/vmsjava/e >i >Arnee  E Arne, I clicked on the link under Subscribe on your new page, and gott? a "mailing list or file server" reply. On close examination, it B appears the address in the HREF does not match the displayed text:    I HREF="mailto:VMSJava-L@arne.vajhoej.dk">VMSJava-L-request@arne.vajhoej.dkhI -------------------------------------------------------------------------nI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comoI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)hI -------------------------------------------------------------------------K   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:21:07 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s, Subject: VMSMAIL: usage of TO: and CC: lines, Message-ID: <3DB4EE4C.1B59F893@videotron.ca>  L When reading emails, there is a single line TO and single line CC field thatH is displayed, it can contain at most 256 characters. This field is built8 differently/separatly from the actual delivery adresses.  M (delivery is done with mail$_add_address, while the TO and CC lines are builtw4 with mail$_add_attribute, same as the subject line).    M What is the expected behaviour when the full list of TO and CCs cannot fit in 9 the 256 char limit ? Should one blindly truncate at 256 ?m  K the SMTP gateway for TCPIP Services seems to simply blindly add the RFC TO: N and CC: fields as they were sent (not even converting quoted printable back toN readable text). The data in those 2 fields is therefore not "machine readable"T in a VMS mail context. (for instance, should one wish to have a reply/all function).  L Does any software make intelligent use of the TO and CC lines when accessing< messages ? (for instance a reply/all for vmsmail messages ?)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:57:24 GMTd* From: Mark Boyes <Mark.Boyes@hp.comdespam>0 Subject: Re: VMSMAIL: usage of TO: and CC: lines1 Message-ID: <E2bt9.10$OD.236690@news.cpqcorp.net>    JF Mezei wrote:l  N > Does any software make intelligent use of the TO and CC lines when accessing> > messages ? (for instance a reply/all for vmsmail messages ?)  E The TCP/IP Services IMAP Server (in its default configuration) has a pI stab at applying the same mappings (to RFC-822 fields) to To and CC that tI it does to From, if it can't detect existing MIME headers in the text of  A the message. These are not always actionable: as well as the 255 pI character issue logical names and distribution lists do not get expanded   in recipient fields.   +Mark+   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2002 10:09:00 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)4 Subject: Re: Why does this file-spec work only once?< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210220908.34ec037@posting.google.com>  p Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<3DB456F0.DA6C4AAE@eps.zko.dec.com>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > 
 > > Hello, > >oG > > Why does a file-spec containing "password" as shown below cause the F > > second (and all subsequent) lexical functions that use it to fail? > F > That's done just to punish you for selecting a silly password (sic). [...]u   Thanks for your rapid response!f  D I had abbreviated my description of the problem too much. That sillyD password was the result of using F$SEARCH on a file-spec. So, in theA interest of brevity and wanting to narrow it down to the smallestaB possible code example that demonstrated the problem, I thought I'dB just skip that part. Anyhow, please let me restate my problem more completely.v   Check out this example:g      ABCDE$ TYPE WB2.COMs $    ON WARNING THEN EXITe $    NODE_INT = 1  $    NODE_NAME = "ABCDE" $    CODE = A !r $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC = / NODE_NAME+CODE+"::FTTOP:UPDATE_''NODE_INT'.LOG" 5 $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE = F$SEARCH(UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC)*5 $    SEARCH 'UPDATE_LOG_FILE' BEGIN,MANAGER/MATCH=ANDa3 $    SEARCH 'UPDATE_LOG_FILE' "BEGIN NODE FUNCTION"i ABCDE$ ABCDE$ @WB2n $    ON WARNING THEN EXITr $    NODE_INT = 1  $    NODE_NAME = "ABCDE" $    CODE = A ! A $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC = NODE_NAME+CODE+"::FTTOP:UPDATE_1.LOG" 5 $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE = F$SEARCH(UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC)s9 $    SEARCH ABCDE"FT password"::_DSA2:[FT]UPDATE_1.LOG;19r BEGIN,MANAGER/MATCH=AND 9     "GVT" Update Data Base Manager Begin Node Function...eE $    SEARCH ABCDE"FT password"::_DSA2:[FT]UPDATE_1.LOG;19 "BEGIN NODEu	 FUNCTION"x( %SEARCH-W-OPENIN, error opening ABCDE"FT- password"::_DSA2:[FT]UPDATE_1.LOG;19 as inputs/ -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failedu< -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node %SEARCH-E-NOFILE, no file foundr ABCDE$  n4 OK. WHY does it fail for the second SEARCH command?   a& Now, if I "refresh" the symbol thusly:  * ABCDE$ TYPE WB2.REFRESH* $    ON WARNING THEN EXIT- $    NODE_INT = 1a $    NODE_NAME = "ABCDE" $    CODE = A !p $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC =u/ NODE_NAME+CODE+"::FTTOP:UPDATE_''NODE_INT'.LOG"X5 $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE = F$SEARCH(UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC)e5 $    SEARCH 'UPDATE_LOG_FILE' BEGIN,MANAGER/MATCH=AND0D $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE = F$SEARCH(UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC)!Refresh symbol3 $    SEARCH 'UPDATE_LOG_FILE' "BEGIN NODE FUNCTION"c ABCDE$ ABCDE$ @ WB2.REFRESH $    ON WARNING THEN EXITe $    NODE_INT = 1h $    NODE_NAME = "ABCDE" $    CODE = A !:A $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC = NODE_NAME+CODE+"::FTTOP:UPDATE_1.LOG"C5 $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE = F$SEARCH(UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC)59 $    SEARCH ABCDE"FT password"::_DSA2:[FT]UPDATE_1.LOG;19h BEGIN,MANAGER/MATCH=ANDs9     "GVT" Update Data Base Manager Begin Node Function...hD $    UPDATE_LOG_FILE = F$SEARCH(UPDATE_LOG_FILE_SPEC)!Refresh symbolE $    SEARCH ABCDE"FT password"::_DSA2:[FT]UPDATE_1.LOG;19 "BEGIN NODEE	 FUNCTION"v9     "GVT" Update Data Base Manager Begin Node Function...n< Message  : "Update DBM begin node function. P1=FT_UPDDBM_ID" ABCDE$  h it works fine. y  * So, why do I have to "refresh" the symbol?   Thanks.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman%   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:41:50 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars againH Message-ID: <Oq6t9.38997$Q3S.20472@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote ina5 message news:uOMArsSzF51l@eisner.encompasserve.org...n >eL > Simon. [Who is currently trying to come up with a brief new sig that makes+ > Ladas sound better than Microsoft... :-)]e  ( Lada - the quality Microsoft aspires to.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:04:58 +1000s1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>-0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again* Message-ID: <3DB514BA.70809@tg.nsw.gov.au>   John Smith wrote:sI > "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote ins7 > message news:uOMArsSzF51l@eisner.encompasserve.org...h > L >>Simon. [Who is currently trying to come up with a brief new sig that makes+ >>Ladas sound better than Microsoft... :-)]m >  > * > Lada - the quality Microsoft aspires to. >   > Once they get over being an after-ran in the Dinkey car world.   Regards, Paddy        G ***********************************************************************p  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedb> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseaB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses1> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:54:40 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again0 Message-ID: <00A15D20.5B63EDC2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <Oq6t9.38997$Q3S.20472@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > H >"Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote in6 >message news:uOMArsSzF51l@eisner.encompasserve.org... >>M >> Simon. [Who is currently trying to come up with a brief new sig that makesD, >> Ladas sound better than Microsoft... :-)] >h) >Lada - the quality Microsoft aspires to.O  H Huh?  I did a google search and came across a reference to an auto makerH named Lada.  Can I assume from your above comment that Lada makes a shit product?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             e5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" a   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:29:49 +0100 (MET)u9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again; Message-ID: <01KNYTFJKK3W9QXRDQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  K > > "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote int9 > > message news:uOMArsSzF51l@eisner.encompasserve.org...a > > >fP > > > Simon. [Who is currently trying to come up with a brief new sig that makes/ > > > Ladas sound better than Microsoft... :-)]: > > >w* > Lada - the quality Microsoft aspires to. > J > Huh?  I did a google search and came across a reference to an auto makerJ > named Lada.  Can I assume from your above comment that Lada makes a shit
 > product?  F As he says, he's looking for a better sig.  It used to be "Microsoft, I the Lada of the computer world" or something.  I pointed out that that's TH really an insult to Lada.  OK, they do make a low-end product, but they A aren't that bad and don't claim they are competition for Audi or  D whomever.  (Lada is a Russian company; I heard recently that GM had ) bought them.  http://www.lada.ru/eng.php)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:18:25 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again. Message-ID: <3DB54211.63B511DF@mindspring.com>   Simon Clubley wrote:  g > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-2GDpm5Y1cEOg@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:rI > > On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:57:04 UTC, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)S
 > > wrote: > >,F > >> Ah, the joys of motoring, in the days when one could fix anythingH > >> with the odd spanner or two, a pair of pliers, and a screwdriver... > >nF > > Last Saturday my wife went out to her FIAT Punto to do the groceryJ > > shopping. It was raining, so to clear driver and passenger windows sheF > > thought she'd use the, now EC safety-regulation mandated, electricG > > windows. Down and up goes the drivers side. Down goes the passenger J > > side and there it stayed. Three  hours later, cold, wet, cut, bleedingC > > and extremely pi**ed off I gave up trying to get the window up.d4 > > Progress. (It was the electric motor - jammed!!) > >l >oK > While we are talking about poor quality cars, how do these things compare M > to Ladas and just what poor quality cars do US residents recognise anyway ?a  . Most anything made by Chrysler (including that0 other guy's Jeep) would be recognized as a long-5 term reliability problem, if not an immediate P.o.S..I  0 Until I got my 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan, I never* knew that differentials could explode. :-)   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:37:30 +0100-4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again8 Message-ID: <qbharu05ptjaltmvsr0ftcsjvositjkje1@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:54:40 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   o >In article <Oq6t9.38997$Q3S.20472@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:e >>I >>"Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote ine7 >>message news:uOMArsSzF51l@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >>>oN >>> Simon. [Who is currently trying to come up with a brief new sig that makes- >>> Ladas sound better than Microsoft... :-)]l >>* >>Lada - the quality Microsoft aspires to. > I >Huh?  I did a google search and came across a reference to an auto maker I >named Lada.  Can I assume from your above comment that Lada makes a shit0	 >product?    So go the jokes:  + Q.  How do you double the value of a Lada ?: A.  Fill the tank with petrol.  J They are, or were, old Fiats made in Eastern Europe (sorry I can't keep upG with the boundary and name changes fast enough to be more specific).  ItH suspect things have improved, and they are maybe part of one of the muchJ larger groups now and benefitting as such.  It's getting more difficult toG buy a truly crap car in Europe now - the story here is that you have toe; travel to the US to do so these days.  Nothing personal ;-)-     	John    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 02 16:08:27 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again) Message-ID: <+dgj0k184Fyn@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <7Q2WCXVm4VLN@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:vz > In article <uOMArsSzF51l@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >>  L >> While we are talking about poor quality cars, how do these things compareN >> to Ladas and just what poor quality cars do US residents recognise anyway ? > I >    Yugos.  We've never had Ladas over here and lots of folks don't knowoF >    what they are.  Most don't even know the Yugo was a Fiat design. H >    It's been decades since we had Fiats in any quantity.  Also Rabbits> >    (VW Golf as originally imported), but not VWs in general. > E >    And some recognize that anything British and mechanical is a badWD >    idea, but since Ford bought up some of them and others went outE >    of business that's also an old idea who's time is somewhat past., > G >    If you have toi explani a Lada you're probably bes off refering toaI >    that 007 episode (Spy Who Loved Me?), with a "good old boy" whackingh2 >    what I assume was a Lada with a large wrench.  E I have a friend with a collection of oldish cars, amongst which is a eE Range Rover. Each and every attempt to cure the oil leaks has failed.u  ' Q: Why aren't computers made in the UK?e< A: Because they haven't found a way of making them leak oil.  > To come back on topic a little, I once did a stint at a UK car; manufacturer where the production lines were run by a mixed < architecture VMS cluster. When I last heard, it was still as9 reliable as ever, as apparently were they cars they made.    >  --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 00:38:00 +1000a> From: forFLEAsytFLEAhm@optushome.com.au (Mark(de-FLEA)Forsyth)0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again> Message-ID: <slrnaraom8.3q4.forFLEAsytFLEAhm@plague.bogus.com>  N On 22 Oct 02 16:08:27 +0200, Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> gushed forth:  	 [deletia]    >gF >I have a friend with a collection of oldish cars, amongst which is a F >Range Rover. Each and every attempt to cure the oil leaks has failed.  K Being a RR owner myself I'd question the sanity of anyone who even tried...    >l( >Q: Why aren't computers made in the UK?= >A: Because they haven't found a way of making them leak oil.e  A Honda made a smallish sedan for Rover. With the Rover badge on it < it leaked oil. The same model sold as a Honda was oil-tight. Go figure...:-)v     -- n Oorooh	 Mark F...r    $ Another Optus Cable Traffic Monitor.3 http://www.members.optushome.com.au/forsythm/traff/o  A Today is Sweetmorn, the 4th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3168r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:25:41 -0400o- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>i0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again( Message-ID: <3DB56DF6.63021373@ohio.edu>  Z In 1990, the Kalamazoo, MI, Yugo dealer's sign said, "1989 Yugo -- buy one, get one free."   Really.y   				RDP      Bob Koehler wrote: > z > In article <uOMArsSzF51l@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > >gM > > While we are talking about poor quality cars, how do these things comparefO > > to Ladas and just what poor quality cars do US residents recognise anyway ?  > I >    Yugos.  We've never had Ladas over here and lots of folks don't knowsE >    what they are.  Most don't even know the Yugo was a Fiat design.eH >    It's been decades since we had Fiats in any quantity.  Also Rabbits> >    (VW Golf as originally imported), but not VWs in general. > E >    And some recognize that anything British and mechanical is a badoD >    idea, but since Ford bought up some of them and others went outE >    of business that's also an old idea who's time is somewhat past.i > G >    If you have toi explani a Lada you're probably bes off refering to I >    that 007 episode (Spy Who Loved Me?), with a "good old boy" whackinga2 >    what I assume was a Lada with a large wrench.   -- rB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.584 ************************