1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 24 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 587       Contents:2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines2 Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command linesJ Re: $CREPRC, LOGINOUT.EXE, and UIC (was Re: Ask OpenVMS no longer working)- Re: Accessing procedure names within an image & Re: ACCVIO with SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES Re: Acrobat Reader? " Re: Another strike against Itanium" Re: Another strike against Itanium" Re: Another strike against Itanium" Re: Another strike against Itanium" Re: Another strike against Itanium" Re: Another strike against Itanium Re: Any news from Sue ?  Availability Manager Problem  Re: Availability Manager Problem  Re: Availability Manager Problem Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP A Re: Current storage interconnect options, and new gigabit option?  Re: enable accents in filenames  Re: enable accents in filenames  Re: eXcursion & Mozilla  File Attributes  Re: File Attributes  Re: File Attributes  Re: Graphic boards for DS10L Re: Graphic boards for DS10L7 Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"! A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-( A Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(   Re: java on VMS - help requested$ Re: Just bought an RA8000, now what? Re: Lurt table Re: Multia help needed Re: NCDware for OpenVMS ? 4 Re: Need Help really Quick Please: 10/23/02 Noon CST Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING' Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium  Re: read QuickTime? $ RMS 7.3-1 Patch v0200 incorrect link Re: Scheduling Question  Re: Scheduling Question  Re: Soft CPU Affinity: off$ Re: TCPIP 5.3 and SMTP authorization5 The VMSNET group of forums (was: Re: Acrobat Reader?)  Re: TPU port to Linux 5 RE: VMS status checking, was OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING 5 Re: VMS status checking, was OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING . RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance. Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance+ Re: Why does this file-spec work only once? B Re: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sittingB Re: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sittingF [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"P RE: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty" prettP RE: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty" prettP Re: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty" prett' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' RE: [OT] - we're back on old cars again ' Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 14:44:34 -0500; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines 3 Message-ID: <1STNLW+jmMMf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <hkIQ9tuM5vHc@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:K > It's a lot easier to install a patch kit onto your current version of VMS K > instead of upgrading your VMS version because there are far fewer changes 7 > in a patch kit and hence far less testing to be done.   L What he said. I can get a patch installed on my test system, reboot, and runL for a couple weeks. Then load it on my production cluster. Even if the patchJ is something like the old ALPCLUSIO01_062. I could put something like thatJ up every couple months and no one would give me a hard time at all. End of story.  D To do a VMS upgrade, say from 7.3 to 7.3-1 requires upper managementJ acceptance, and major project plans. Which is why I'm still at 7.2 and notG 7.2-1 or 7.3. I *MIGHT* get to upgrade to 7.3 or 7.3.1 either late this   year, or early next year. Maybe.  K Of course there's so little VMS left here, and alphacide has only hastening 6 its departure, that it really doesn't matter any more.  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a C         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about I         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the 7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard     ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 14:45:36 -0500; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) ; Subject: Re: $ RECALL/SEARCH and editing long command lines 3 Message-ID: <45DG+AJdUqtT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3DAE078C.7080908@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > I'm working on my list.  :-)  . here's one I asked for back in VMS 4.x days...   $ SET TERM /NOTYPO   :-)   1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a C         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about I         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the 7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard     ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2002 23:43:38 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) S Subject: Re: $CREPRC, LOGINOUT.EXE, and UIC (was Re: Ask OpenVMS no longer working) * Message-ID: <ap7c7a$io3$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  a In article <1s0uqu4pivnf3ujlci3v2grsc2b519bdcf@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes: . :On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:40:30 -0400, "Syltrem"" :<syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote:  I   Please provide background on the question -- more often than not, there H   can be another solution for this class of problem.  (If you ask a veryG   specific question, you can get a specific answer -- and entirely miss H   out on an easier or alternative approach to the problem.)  Also pleaseG   remember to include the OpenVMS version when posting questions, among    other similar details.  N :>I want to $CREPRC a detached process, that would run LOGINOUT.EXE as another! :>user (different UIC than mine). K :>It says in the book that the UIC parameter to $CREPRC is ignored when the " :>image specified is LOGINOUT.EXE.  @   LOGINOUT looks at the username when it starts up the process, >   not the UIC.  There are various ways to create a new process   incorrectly, too.    :>How would I do this, then?  ?   Ask The Wizard topics (1073), (2164), (3681), (5080), (5982), @   (6056), (7391), probably a few others.   Several of these will=   be rather similar discussions, but there are variations and 1   some other details included in some of these...   4   But I'd rather know why you want to do this first.  G :I've done it by SUBMITting a batch job under the desired username (and . :hence UIC), and have that job do the $CREPRC.  ?   $sndjbc and SUBMIT/USER and DECnet task-to-task and (my usual >   favorite) persona services (V6.2 and later) are all options.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Oct 2002 00:12:38 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 6 Subject: Re: Accessing procedure names within an image* Message-ID: <ap7dtm$io3$4@web1.cup.hp.com>  k In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.0210201028490.7227-100000@athena.csdco.com>, John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> writes:     K :The object is to allow a condition handler e-mail a traceback on a program  :crash. (Alpha VMS 7.2-2/7.3-1)   I   Fully supported and documented: lib$signal SS$_DEBUG, passing the debug J   command to redirect debugger output to a file and then then the commands+   to show the calls and the stack and such.   =   Relevent Ask The Wizard topics include (5175) and (4129).     F   Also see the SS$_DEBUG signaling information in the debugger manual.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:15:11 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> / Subject: Re: ACCVIO with SHOW DEVICE/SIZE=BYTES $ Message-ID: <3db6e747$1@news.si.com>  2 >Do you find this useful? Are we wasting our time?  L I think you're wasting your time.  My opinion is that your customers will beH better served by you making sure that ANYTHING not 64 bit-dependent will  work on VAXes as well as Alphas. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Oct 2002 00:02:02 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Acrobat Reader?* Message-ID: <ap7d9q$io3$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  Y In article <newscache$14x64h$f19$1@news.tiscali.fr>, DTL <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes: H :Er... I do not find VMS in the list of platforms for the Adobe Acrobat  :Reader utility...  K   We may have had similar conversations, apologies if I repeat myself here.   J   One- or two- line questions are often surprisingly difficult to answer, J   as such questions have a surprising potential for ambiguity.  Details onL   the platform and the version and such can also help reduce the difficulty K   in answering the question(s) posed, speeding the answer to your question.   ,   Put another way, is the intended question:1     o how to read Adobe Acrobat files on OpenVMS? (     o the contents of the Adobe website?;     o the (lack of) support for various platforms by Adobe?      o something else...   E   I will here assume that you seek to read Adobe Acrobat files on an  E   OpenVMS Alpha system, and do not wish to discuss the details of the D   Adobe website or Adobe application and platform support.  If so...  I   I would strongly encourage you to download the OpenVMS Frequently Asked I   Questions (FAQ) document, available in various formats at various URLs. $   A link to the FAQ is available at:  "     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  H   If you want to read Adobe Acrobat PDF-format files on OpenVMS, please H   see the information included in the OpenVMS Frequently Asked QuestionsF   (FAQ) on PDF viewers.  Search for PDF or Acrobat or Adobe or similarG   within the FAQ, and you will find the information and tools you seek.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 14:29:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Another strike against Itanium 3 Message-ID: <uRIF+Lr6HtDe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <01C279CA.4A542B60@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: J > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/10/21/021021hnopteron.xml?s= > IDGNS  > G > (Apologies for wrap / any stray Outlook-inserted crap. It's jammed in  > "rich text" again) > J > Apparently Cray reckon the AMD Opteron (their high end 64 bit chip) is aH > better part to build a supercomputer with than Itanic. I bet intel are; > (ahem) annoyed. Last time around, they used Alphas. Sigh.   L Perhaps more the kiss-of-death for Itanium is that Gartner says it will win.  ) 	http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5801    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 12:44:23 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)+ Subject: Re: Another strike against Itanium < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0210231144.b83801d@posting.google.com>  e bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<ap6btj$rj8gt$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>... ? > In article <d7791aa1.0210230445.56d2d035@posting.google.com>, - > 	bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: ` > > Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C279CA.4A542B60@sulfer.icius.com>... > >>  M > >> Apparently Cray reckon the AMD Opteron (their high end 64 bit chip) is a K > >> better part to build a supercomputer with than Itanic. I bet intel are > > >> (ahem) annoyed. Last time around, they used Alphas. Sigh. > > G > > anyone who bets againset the dec alpha group will lose big time ...  > K > I don't know how to break this to you, but Compaq did and now, so has HP.  > 1 > Oh yeah, and DEC has been gone for even longer.  >  > bill  A the dec alpha engineering group still lives thru hp and intel ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:52:14 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> + Subject: Re: Another strike against Itanium , Message-ID: <3DB6EFDC.FA219B57@videotron.ca>   Shane Smith wrote:E > a Hammer version of VMS, nobody'd use the Itanic one. I guess we're J > pretty much the only people HP can force to use Itanic, so that's what's > going to happen.  M Intel could easily abandon Itanic, and let HP continue to fund the chip if it * wants to. Intel will gladly fab it for HP.  K If this happens, the big question becomes: would HP stick with this bloated M architecture which woudl become HP-proprietary, or would HP admit its mistake / and drop IA64 and adopt whatever is available ?   L At this point in time, one possible exit strategy for Intel would be to justH plan simple process shrinks for IA64 without any more major improvementsJ beyond what has already been committed. It might be a cheao way to bow out without admitting defeat.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:37:13 -0400 * From: "rob kas" <rob@nospam.paychoice.com>+ Subject: Re: Another strike against Itanium 3 Message-ID: <3db707dc$0$1420$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>      Shane   7  Huge Heat Sink, one big CPU fan and 2 fans in the case   $                                  Rob      1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message * news:01C27A7D.1D78C570@sulfer.icius.com...I > What kind of cooling? Honking great heatsink and fan, or something more 	 > exotic?  >  > Shane  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:10:26 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: Another strike against Itanium ' Message-ID: <3DB764A2.82745AE6@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > N > In article <3DB61FC0.207@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes: > > * > > --------------050002050109040309020407= > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed # > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  > > I > > If I was HP OpenVMS engineering I would be funding a small project to  > > look at porting to AMD'sG > > processor just to see how much difference it would be from Itanium.  > I > Whereas if I were in OpenVMS engineering I would check with the lawyers F > to see if possibly such action would be in violation of the contractB > with Intel whereby Intel is paying some of the porting expenses.  D True. It's very likely that they were dumb enough to sign a contract) which includes anti-competitive verbiage.   G Hhmmm... Has intel been taking lessons from BG, Inc.? Will they someday 3 share BG's fate at the hands of the justice dept.?    B Tune in again next time for the next installment of "As The CD-ROM	 Turns"...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:22:29 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: Another strike against Itanium 2 Message-ID: <DsSdnXVN19sYHiqgXTWcrg@metrocast.net>  5 "rob kas" <rob@nospam.paychoice.com> wrote in message - news:3db707dc$0$1420$8e9e3842@news.atx.net...  > 	 >   Shane  > 9 >  Huge Heat Sink, one big CPU fan and 2 fans in the case   K Except for the 'huge' heat sink, sounds like my 1 GHz Athlon T-bird (though D of course the newer Athlons apparently run considerably cooler).  MyH recollection is that a 2 GHz Hammer was supposed to consume less than 80I Watts of power, so a naive estimate of a 1.6 GHz chip's consumption would G only be about 50 Watts - but they may be being pretty conservative with L pre-production units.  Just out of curiosity (and if you're allowed to say),J what's the processor's running temperature (my Athlon tends to run at 45 -K 50 degrees C., about 12 degrees C. above the motherboard temperature, which 0 in turn runs about 12 degrees C. above ambient)?   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:18:30 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>   Subject: Re: Any news from Sue ?$ Message-ID: <3db6e80e$1@news.si.com>  1 >I had a frozen shoulder, you go to the hospital, D >they knock you out and they yank your arm till the tissue tears you: >wake up in a large amount of pain and they send you home.  F I'm glad my doctor was not that sadistic for my frozen shoulder.  Just  completed about ten weeks of PT. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:06:04 GMT ! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz % Subject: Availability Manager Problem % Message-ID: <3db6f111.518475017@news>    Hi All,   E I've had AM running for a while quite successfully. AM analyser is on   an NT Box. (AM 2.2-1 throughout)  0 Last night we went through some Network changes.   Background configs. @ Development Cluster, Ethernet only, mixed architecture, VMS 7.2, 7.2-2, 7.3 & 7.3-1. D Production Cluster, Ethernet and FDDI, mixed architecture, VMS 7.2 & 7.2-2 only.   > Network changes involved separating the FDDI off to a separateD network, inaccessible from the rest of the network. It got different IP Addresses as a result. A I don't see how IP is an issue as it seems connectivity is at the  Ethernet level.   ) Now AM only sees the Development Cluster.   @ The main difference is that the Prod Cluster has FDDI as well as	 Ethernet.    This all worked okay before.  ' Any reasons why this might be an issue?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:59:05 -0400 . From: "Ted Medenblik" <ted.medenblik@duke.edu>) Subject: Re: Availability Manager Problem ( Message-ID: <ap72do$i6o$1@news.duke.edu>  J AM uses the first network adapter.  There is a config option to tell it to use which adapter.  I think in# AMDS$LOGICALS.COM look for the line   9 $! AMDS$DEF AMDS$DEVICE "device-name-here" ! e.g., "FXA0"        -Ted  . <rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz> wrote in message news:3db6f111.518475017@news... 	 > Hi All,  > G > I've had AM running for a while quite successfully. AM analyser is on " > an NT Box. (AM 2.2-1 throughout) > 2 > Last night we went through some Network changes. >  > Background configs. B > Development Cluster, Ethernet only, mixed architecture, VMS 7.2, > 7.2-2, 7.3 & 7.3-1. F > Production Cluster, Ethernet and FDDI, mixed architecture, VMS 7.2 &
 > 7.2-2 only.  > @ > Network changes involved separating the FDDI off to a separateF > network, inaccessible from the rest of the network. It got different > IP Addresses as a result. C > I don't see how IP is an issue as it seems connectivity is at the  > Ethernet level.  > + > Now AM only sees the Development Cluster.  > B > The main difference is that the Prod Cluster has FDDI as well as > Ethernet.  >  > This all worked okay before. > ) > Any reasons why this might be an issue?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:07:47 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> ) Subject: Re: Availability Manager Problem 8 Message-ID: <DcEt9.19074$2s.860290@twister.maine.rr.com>  L RMDRIVER seems to have a search list for selecting which adaptor to use.  IfE you segregated FDDI, that's most likely where your packets are going:   J We have FDDI in some of our systems.  To force the packets to our Ethernet, adaptor, we added this to AMDS$LOGICALS.COM:   $ AMDS$DEF AMDS$DEVICE "EWA0"   I You'll have to substitute your Ethernet adaptor.  There's a very complete ! explanation in AMDS$LOGICALS.COM.   I As we're AMDS, not AM, you may have something a little different.  It all  uses RMDRIVER though.    -Jeff     . <rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz> wrote in message news:3db6f111.518475017@news... 	 > Hi All,  > G > I've had AM running for a while quite successfully. AM analyser is on " > an NT Box. (AM 2.2-1 throughout) > 2 > Last night we went through some Network changes. >  > Background configs. B > Development Cluster, Ethernet only, mixed architecture, VMS 7.2, > 7.2-2, 7.3 & 7.3-1. F > Production Cluster, Ethernet and FDDI, mixed architecture, VMS 7.2 &
 > 7.2-2 only.  > @ > Network changes involved separating the FDDI off to a separateF > network, inaccessible from the rest of the network. It got different > IP Addresses as a result. C > I don't see how IP is an issue as it seems connectivity is at the  > Ethernet level.  > + > Now AM only sees the Development Cluster.  > B > The main difference is that the Prod Cluster has FDDI as well as > Ethernet.  >  > This all worked okay before. > ) > Any reasons why this might be an issue?    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 16:31:21 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)" Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210231531.2fd69178@posting.google.com>   i whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) wrote in message news:<af0dc2ea.0210230855.282754a@posting.google.com>... u > spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0210221555.619e2f8d@posting.google.com>...  [...] 8 > $ backup $disk1:[blah],$disk2:[blah] $tape9:blahs/save > ! > $ backup/list $tape9:blahs/save  > Listing of save set(s) >  > Save set:  BLAHS.  > [...] A > Command:   BACKUP $DISK1:[BLAH],$DISK2:[BLAH] $TAPE9:BLAHS/SAVE  > [...] : > [BLAH]FILE1.DAT;4                   1  23-OCT-2002 10:49: > [BLAH]FILE1.DAT;3                   1  23-OCT-2002 10:49: > [BLAH]FILE1.DAT;2                   1  23-OCT-2002 10:49: > [BLAH]FILE1.DAT;1                   1  23-OCT-2002 10:49: > [BLAH]FILE1.DAT;4                   1  23-OCT-2002 10:49: > [BLAH]FILE1.DAT;3                   1  23-OCT-2002 10:49: > [BLAH]FILE1.DAT;2                   1  23-OCT-2002 10:49: > [BLAH]FILE1.DAT;1                   1  23-OCT-2002 10:49 > Total of 8 files, 8 blocks > End of save set  >  > <end of example> > C > There is no way to restore these files properly without expending 0 > a great effort, and this for a simple example.  D And this exmaple has nothing to do with what I was talking about. In	 my post I C said you could do this for the case in which these are *your* files 
 which you are   D    ***transporting to another system, not saving in case you need to restore to the same system***   E and you know that there is very little or no chance for any duplicate D file-specs across disks and you wish to move them to a single biggerC disk and you are in a hurry. It's there in my previous posts. These  criteria exclude your example.   > The real world isn'tF > usually so simple. While "data integrity", as you say, is a foremostE > concern, even though the data are exactly duplicated, the integrity H > of the data has been lost because backup is unable to properly restore( > it. (please reread that last sentence)  D I said that such backups were useful for ***moving*** your own filesD that you know will have zero or very few duplicates. I never said itC would be easy to restore the files to their original configuration.    C > The fact that backup reads the entire save_set just in case there @ > are duplicates *** does NOT enhance data integrity *** because0 > the resulting restoration will not be correct.  F Well, I meant that by not having to write complicated logic to process< /SELECT, you reduce the chance of bugs that could miss files> altogether. BACKUP has had a history of very interesting bugs.   > > In "my wish world" backup would choke on the original backupE > command, "backup $disk1:[blah],$disk2:[blah] ..." with an -F-INV or D > some such. In fact, any input_spec that can't be properly restored; > would be an error or at least a warning. (data integrity)   A But then BACKUP would not be following your instructions exactly.   E > However, using the above example, with backup allowing an illogical E > input-spec as it now does, and just implementing my "stop when the  > > command has completed" wish, here's what I'd like to happen: > C > $ backup $tape9:blahs/save/select=[see selects below] output-spec  > C >    ([blah]file1.dat;3) would stop after the first ;3 is restored.  > C >    ([blah]file1.dat;*) would require /new_version and restore all D >                        eight files, stopping after [blah] is fini,9 >                        and leaving me to sort them out.  > E >    ([blah]file1,dat;2,[blah]file1.dat;2) would require /new_version E >                        and restore both ;2 files (creating an ;3 on G >                        the second) and stop after both are processed. F >                        If only one ;2 is found in [blah], the searchF >                        would continue until a second [blah] is foundE >                        or the save_set end is reached. This command ? >                        would be illogical in "my wish world".  > H >    ([*]file1.dat;1) or (file1.dat;1) would search the entire save_set I >                        and restore all file1.dat;1's (output-spec would G >                        determine whether or not /new_vers is needed.)    E > You get the idea. Anyway, that's all the time I'm going to waste on > > this, I'll read any replies, though. Back to the real world.   OK.   F Would you wish the same level of sanity checking in all other areas of VMS?   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:58:43 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)J Subject: Re: Current storage interconnect options, and new gigabit option?I Message-ID: <rdeininger-2310022058430001@1cust4.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   = In article <3DB6AA91.704C7AF0@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt $ <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:  3 >Actually, I was wondering if the "new fast cluster 3 >interconnect [via] gigabit ethernet" was, in fact, . >iSCSI; it would certainly make sense. Maybe a+ >VMS engineer can confirm or deny this. :-)   G The gigabit ethernet cluster interconnect is gigabit ethernet -- an SCS H protocol driver using gigabit ethernet as a transport layer.  Just plain ordinary PEDRIVER.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:36:22 +0200 4 From: Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr (Didier Morandi)( Subject: Re: enable accents in filenamesB Message-ID: <1fkix3g.10mjliarg0t5cN%Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>  G ain't got no mission since the 1st of May, I got Chirac, no Cash and no  Hope...   ) Looks like I'll have to move to SAP land.    D.    3 Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:    > & > Didier would probably find it easier  > just to buy an XServe box. :-) >  > Atlant     --   ---------------------------  Posted with MacSoup 2.4.6  Remove .nospam to email me.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2002 21:21:05 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>( Subject: Re: enable accents in filenames, Message-ID: <ap73s101jlu@enews4.newsguy.com>    Roy Omond <Roy@omond.net> wrote:4 > Hmmm... I doubt if you can achieve this using FTP.  I It might be possible, but I'd sure recommend against it.  However, if you J have a copy of Retrospect it is possible to back a Mac up via FTP.  I backJ mine up to my Linux box, it's much faster than backing up to 8mm tapes.  IL don't see any reason why Retrospect wouldn't work with a VMS box, but then ID expected DAVE to work with Samba on my VMS box (and it sure didn't).  . > However, you could try installing Appleshare1 > (aka Pathworks for Macintosh).  It provides the 0 > necessary mapping of filenames so that the Mac4 > will see the accented characters.  I'm not sure if/ > Appleshare will run on VMS 7.3 and up, but it 9 > certainly worked in 7.2.  Then it's just drag-and-drop.   % I know it's still working in 7.2-1H1.   5 > Alternatively, if you've got enough free disk space 4 > on the mac, use Stuffit (or Zip) to create one big1 > archive of your DOC directory, transfer this by  > FTP to your VMS box etc. etc.   % This is the solution I'd recommend.      			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:28:44 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Subject: Re: eXcursion & Mozilla, Message-ID: <3DB74CCC.4090607@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Upadhyaya, Srinivasa wrote:  > Paddy O'Brien wrote: > G >>when I try to access Mozilla via eXcursions running on a PC (PII 400, F >>128MB RAM, W2k) eXcursions consumes nearly 100% CPU and simple tasksG >>like scrolling a web page, selecting a menu item, moving a window etc D >>take forever (up to 30 seconds) which make the application totally >  >  >  > Hi, G >  We were investigating this problem and we found that this problem is J > due to some bug in Mozilla. This problem has been fixed in Mozilla 1.2b.H > But VMS version of Mozilla 1.2b is not  available as of now. We tested5 > the behaviour using linux version of Mozilla 1.2b.   >  > Regards,   > Upadhyaya  >  >   D My colleague's thanks for your reply, and to others who replied too.  3 Any idea as to when 1.2b will be available for VMS?   E Interestingly, my own setup is similar to Jonathan Boswell's, from a  G ES40 excepting that my display is on a DEC 3000, and I do not get this  I problem, although I can only use it for accessing Outlook mail.  Perhaps  , it's just that the VLC is such a slow beast.   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 14:40:38 -0700( From: william.g.lashly@boeing.com (Bill) Subject: File Attributes= Message-ID: <49609414.0210231340.48d8eacd@posting.google.com>u  C I can get to the file attributes (i.e. "Revision Date") through theAC Lexical f$file_attributes within a command procedure.  But how do Io6 get to the same information through a Fortran program?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:47:04 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>S Subject: Re: File Attributes, Message-ID: <3DB750FC.D862714B@videotron.ca>   Bill wrote:iE > I can get to the file attributes (i.e. "Revision Date") through theiE > Lexical f$file_attributes within a command procedure.  But how do Ii8 > get to the same information through a Fortran program?     HELP RMS  K Look at FAB and various XABs that get populated with a SYS$OPEN (as well asU
 other calls).     M (the RMS manual contains full description of the fields. There should be somea  "#include" for Fortran for RMS .   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2002 23:16 CDTu' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)o Subject: Re: File Attributes- Message-ID: <23OCT200223161972@gerg.tamu.edu>y  , william.g.lashly@boeing.com (Bill) writes...D }I can get to the file attributes (i.e. "Revision Date") through theD }Lexical f$file_attributes within a command procedure.  But how do I7 }get to the same information through a Fortran program?   H Free sample. Perhaps not the best coding ever done, but it ought to workG and give you some idea of what to do. It shows a rather small subset of E the information available (it was originaly going to show more, but I K never got around to adding it, thus the comment in the "abstract"), consult G the RMS documentation (or even just HELP RMS) for the rest of the fielde defintions.-  B And yes, it does look like the Fortran definitions still use pairsC of integer*4 values for the quadwords instead of a single integer*8 @ value if you use the definitions supplied. If you want integer*8< time fields, you need to extract the definition modules fromA sys$library:forsysdef.tlb, modify them, and include your modifiedL verion in your program.    --- Carl   $ type show_file.for       OPTIONS /EXTEND_SOURCE       PROGRAM Show_Filed   C+ C  C ABSTRACT:  C E C        Tell me all kinds of stuff about a file, not unlike DIR/FULL- C 
 C AUTHOR(S): p C  C        CDP C  C CREATION DATE:   C  C        June-1994 C  C [common blocks]u
 C [design] C  C MODIFICATION HISTORY:e C ' C        Date     | Name  | DescriptioncP C ----------------+-------+----------------------------------------------------- C [change_entry] C-       Implicit Integer (a-z)       Include '($fabdef)':       Include '($xabdef)'        Include '($xabdatdef)'       Include '($xabfhcdef)'       Include '($syssrvnam)'       Include '($rmsdef)'d         Character*80 filenameo       Character*23 c_created,M      &             c_revised,n      &             c_backup,      &             c_expire        Integer*4 created(2),V      &          revised(2),i      &          backup(2),      &          expire(2),      &          size         Record /fabdef/ file_fab       Structure /x_s/p           Union-               Mapl%                   Record /xabdef/ xabe                   End Mapi               MapS+                   Record /xabdatdef/ xabdat                    End Mapt               Mapa+                   Record /xabfhcdef/ xabfhcw                   End Map                End Unionn           End Structure]       Record /x_s/ x, hdrg       Byte len          Type '('' Filename: '',$)'       Read(*,'(a)') filename8       Call STR$Trim(filename, filename, filename_length)   cs c setup FAB and XAB  cl#       file_fab.fab$b_bid= fab$c_bidd#       file_fab.fab$b_bln= fab$c_bln-(       file_fab.fab$l_fna= %Loc(filename))       file_fab.fab$b_fns= filename_lengthp!       file_fab.fab$l_xab= %Loc(x)n          x.xab.xab$b_cod= xab$c_dat#       x.xab.xab$b_bln= xab$c_datlens        x.xab.xab$l_nxt= %Loc(hdr)  "       hdr.xab.xab$b_cod= xab$c_fhc%       hdr.xab.xab$b_bln= xab$c_fhclena ceL c open file, this does an implicit SYS$Display which loads the XABs and such c !       status= SYS$Open( file_fab)n$ d     Type *,'Open status = ',status. d     Type *,'FAB$L_STV = ',file_fab.fab$l_stv       If (.NOT. status) Then'           Call Lib$Signal(%Val(status))c           Call Exit()        End If   cl c close file cn"       status= SYS$Close( file_fab)% d     Type *,'Close status = ',statuss. d     Type *,'FAB$L_STV = ',file_fab.fab$l_stv       If (.NOT. status) Then'           Call Lib$Signal(%Val(status))n           Call Exit()G       End If ce3 c put date-time value quadwords in output variablesx ce'       created(1)= x.xabdat.xab$q_cdt(1) '       created(2)= x.xabdat.xab$q_cdt(2)t$       revised(1)= x.xab.xab$q_rdt(1)$       revised(2)= x.xab.xab$q_rdt(2)'       backup(1) = x.xabdat.xab$q_bdt(1) '       backup(2) = x.xabdat.xab$q_bdt(2)r'       expire(1) = x.xabdat.xab$q_edt(1)c'       expire(2) = x.xabdat.xab$q_edt(2)l c   c convert times and display them ci=       If ((created(1) .EQ. 0) .AND. (created(2) .EQ. 0)) Thenr'          c_created = '<None specified>'h
       Else1           Call SYS$AscTim(,c_created,created(1),)        End If=       If ((revised(1) .EQ. 0) .AND. (revised(2) .EQ. 0)) Thenl(           c_revised = '<None specified>'
       Else1           Call SYS$AscTim(,c_revised,revised(1),)        End If;       if ((backup(1) .EQ. 0) .AND. (backup(2) .EQ. 0)) Then<'           c_backup = '<None specified>'o
       Else/           Call SYS$AscTim(,c_backup,backup(1),)        End If;       if ((expire(1) .EQ. 0) .AND. (expire(2) .EQ. 0)) ThenO&          c_expire = '<None specified>'
       Else/           Call SYS$AscTim(,c_expire,expire(1),)e       End If"       Type *,'Created: ',c_created"       Type *,'Revised: ',c_revised!       Type *,'Backup : ',c_backupg!       Type *,'Expire : ',c_expireb  ?       Type '('' Control Field Size:  '',i4)',file_fab.fab$b_fsz A       Type '('' Maximum Record Size: '',i4)',hdr.xabfhc.xab$w_lrld  !       size = hdr.xabfhc.xab$l_ebk 4       If (hdr.xabfhc.xab$w_ffb .EQ. 0) size = size-1  .       Type '('' Blocks used:      '',i4)',size>       Type '('' Blocks allocated: '',i4)',hdr.xabfhc.xab$l_hbk  	       END$   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 11:34:13 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) % Subject: Re: Graphic boards for DS10Ly= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0210231034.167612d9@posting.google.com>b  M Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote in message news:<3DB5D1D2.4060807@srv.net>...o; > Is there a list somewhere of what graphic cards will workq6 > in a DS10L under VMS, that allow DecWindows to work?  / See the Supported Options List for the DS10L at F http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/options/asds10l/asds10l_options.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:25:59 GMTE5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>a% Subject: Re: Graphic boards for DS10L)2 Message-ID: <XQBt9.34$5M1.464003@news.cpqcorp.net>  K Go and buy a 3DLabs Oxygen VX1 - buy the cheapest one you can find, with nol& wiz-bang extras.  Probably under $200.      : Kevin Handy wrote in message <3DB5D1D2.4060807@srv.net>...A >I have a change to play with a DS10L for a while, and would like ? >to put a graphic card in it that will work with VMS.  The only ? >list of working cards I've seen is in sales brochures, and I'd ? >prefer to find something cheap (I only have it for a while, so - >don't want to make a substantial investment)  > : >Is there a list somewhere of what graphic cards will work5 >in a DS10L under VMS, that allow DecWindows to work?s@ >A random S3 VGA card allows me to use the console/keyboard, but >it's not even VT100 capable.n >tA >Is there a list of cards that work? The VMS FAQ that I find onlyl= >talk about older VAX's graphics.  I really like a list I canu; >carry with me to look in the stores/used equipment dealersn
 >if possible.t >O >V   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:00:56 GMTn1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)f@ Subject: Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty"!< Message-ID: <stBt9.179626$8o3.5394158@twister.austin.rr.com>  3 Atlant Schmidt (atlantnospam@mindspring.com) wrote:s8 : Actually, there's a ton-and-a-half that the governmentC : can legally do to improve our lot in life. Here are a few things:7 : ; :   o Stop corporate fraud. Halliburton (Cheney) and Harkin @ :      Energy (Bush) ought to be prosecuted. Think it'll happen? :  Here's a clue to the answer:  5    http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/21/news/sec/index.htmi$    The toothless SEC - Oct. 21, 2002     "Pulling the SEC's teeth  G    The White House wants to cut the agency's funding increase; will thec    watchdog have any bite left?e       October 21, 2002: 3:47 PM EDT+    By Mark Gongloff, CNN/Money Staff Writerg    rB    NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Three months after President Bush signed?    legislation to boost funding for the Securities and ExchangenH    Commission, he's trying to cut that proposed budget increase, raising=    doubts about the SEC's ability to protect U.S. investors.       H    The Sarbanes-Oxley corporate reform act, pushed through Congress thisE    summer in response to a rash of corporate scandals at Enron Corp.,mF    WorldCom Group and more, proposed a $776 million budget in 2003 forH    the SEC, the government agency charged with maintaining the integrity     of the securities markets..."    i> Another cost-savings would come from controlling our borders.   I From just a defense point of view, it's stupid to attack another country nJ while borders are almost wide-open. There's only one border crossing that < has the necessary equipment to detect radioactive materials.  D The cost savings would come from the cost of providing schooling and% medical care to illegal aliens; e.g.:d  H    http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/borderland/20020926-25705.shtml(    Migrant care cost El Paso $30 million    y0                            "Border medical costs&                                       I           Estimated amount of uncompensated medical costs attributable to$I                       undocumented immigrants in 2000 in border counties:rI                                                                          iI                                                     San Diego $76,185,000 I                                               Imperial, Calif. $2,839,000 I                                                    Yuma, Ariz. $4,105,000 I                                          Pima, Ariz. (Tucson) $24,650,000tI                                                Santa Cruz, Ariz. $385,000sI                                         Brewster, Texas (Alpine) $332,000uI                                       Val Verde, Texas (Del Rio) $994,000iI                                     Maverick, Texas (Eagle Pass) $901,000 I                                             Webb, Texas (Laredo) $632,000 I                                                     Starr, Texas $406,000nI                                      Hidalgo, Texas (McAllen) $19,666,000eI                                  Cameron, Texas (Brownsville) $14,903,000oI                                                 Cochise, Ariz. $1,698,000FI                                              Luna, N.M. (Deming) $563,000hI                                          Doa Ana (Las Cruces) $5,455,000nI                                                       El Paso $30,102,000oI                                       Culberson, Texas (Van Horn) $61,000vI                                                                          nI                             Source:U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition.-@             ____________________________________________________I                                                                          -F    Undocumented immigrants in El Paso rang up more than $30 million inI    unpaid medical bills in 2000 -- the second-highest amount for a border H    county, after San Diego -- according to a study being released today.    l@    The U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition, a group of electedE    officials from 24 border counties in four states, commissioned the F    study to put pressure on Congress to reimburse border hospitals forC    providing emergency medical services to undocumented immigrants./    1H    "We've said all along that the federal government should pay for thisA    because it's a federal mandate for hospitals to treat everyonetD    regardless of nationality," said Pete Duarte, Thomason Hospital'sG    chief executive officer. "The crisis became apparent when NAFTA wentaG    into effect, and the pull of the border continues to bring more poort=    immigrants. I have suggested charging a 5-cent toll at the G    international bridges that would be earmarked for health care at the-H    border. We have talked to everyone who will listen, but there has not;    been the ethical or moral will to solve this problem..."g     8 Some people have been trying to warn what's happening...  1    http://www.vdare.com/roberts/import_export.htmp.    06/18/02 - Importing People, Exporting Jobs    c    By Paul Craig Roberts    5       D   "...The growth of American incomes is being held down by two otherE    factors, which are not receiving enough attention. There are feweru:    well-paying jobs as U.S. firms shift operations abroad.G    Simultaneously, a massive inflow of poor immigrants into the U.S. is 1    holding down construction and low-skill wages.     (C    Increasingly, CEO's are compensated according to their company'snH    earnings and stock price. This bottom line pressure causes managementA    to move as many operations abroad as possible in order to takea    advantage of low cost labor.s     H    When this process first began, many economists dismissed it as merelyF    the lost of low productivity jobs that the U.S. didn't want anyway.G    However, the U.S. taxpayer has helped to educate so many Chinese andtI    Indians that well-paying jobs once held by U.S. engineers and researchDB    scientists have left the country, taking the incomes with them.    ,E    The U.S. has become a country that imports poor people and exportso(    jobs that provide upward mobility..."       2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 13:26:46 -0500; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)hJ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(3 Message-ID: <u+gpxKmpQeqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  } In article <uqrvtopl4p9b91@corp.supernews.com>, "Encompass - HP Enterprise Technology Symposium" <KilleenJ@toast.net> writes:m$ > www.hpets2002.com - login required  J Looks like you gotta pay $1495.00 to access the site. Even the porno sites offer cheaper access!-   :-(a  B My thanks to folks like Mr. Parris who are posting their materials
 elsewhere.  ? Any one else remember when DECUS was free information exchange?$  I He!!, I could even convince my management to pay $80 for the symposium CDnF when they wouldn't send me to the conference. Now there's no CD at anyG price, and you have to go to the symposium to have access to any of the0 information.  > Am I the only one who wants to replace ENCOMPASS with DECUS???  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy-4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself aRC         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go aboutiI         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in theo7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard -   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 13:52:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)rJ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(3 Message-ID: <gnkDdMBPYFu8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <u+gpxKmpQeqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes:i  @ > Am I the only one who wants to replace ENCOMPASS with DECUS???   Of course not.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:36:12 -0600i0 From: "Dale Coy" <dalecoy@obfuscation.spinn.net>J Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(+ Message-ID: <ap6tvo$nln$1@pith.uoregon.edu>f  H "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD> wrote in message- news:u+gpxKmpQeqT@eisner.encompasserve.org...eL > In article <uqrvtopl4p9b91@corp.supernews.com>, "Encompass - HP Enterprise2 Technology Symposium" <KilleenJ@toast.net> writes:& > > www.hpets2002.com - login required >eL > Looks like you gotta pay $1495.00 to access the site. Even the porno sites > offer cheaper access!B >  > :-(b ...dA > Any one else remember when DECUS was free information exchange?s >-  H In fairness (?), you should note that Encompass, successor to DECUS, hadI essentially nothing to do with the business or policies of HPETS 2002.  I L have no inside information, so I could be totally wrong, but it appears thatJ Encompass could not have caused this information to be "free" (or even $80J or whatever), because Encompass didn't run the Symposium.  HP (or HPETS orF something) had and has essentially complete control of the HPETS-2002.F [Encompass had influence on the content, but not much influence on the
 execution]  L Also in fairness, Encompass _did_ apparently run the Pre-Symposium seminars,H and the seminar materials are now available to paying Encompass members,G even if they did not go to the Seminars (some is still "Post Pending").e  F That is NOT to say that I agree with much of what is happening (or notG happening) in Encompass.    But it's not exactly fair to blame them for-( Symposium stuff that they don't control. ...3 >0@ > Am I the only one who wants to replace ENCOMPASS with DECUS??? >u  H There's some good in Encompass.  But in my opinion, the baby (DECUS) wasK thrown out with the bathwater.  I personally believe that it is possible toyG bring back the good parts of DECUS, and change Encompass for the mutualnC benefit of the users and the vendors.  But it's gonna take a lot offK "attitude adjustment".  However, that's another discussion for another day.l   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 15:43:36 -0500; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)PJ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(3 Message-ID: <aftJD$AWr+ER@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ^ In article <ap6tvo$nln$1@pith.uoregon.edu>, "Dale Coy" <dalecoy@obfuscation.spinn.net> writes:J > In fairness (?), you should note that Encompass, successor to DECUS, hadK > essentially nothing to do with the business or policies of HPETS 2002.  I N > have no inside information, so I could be totally wrong, but it appears thatL > Encompass could not have caused this information to be "free" (or even $80L > or whatever), because Encompass didn't run the Symposium.  HP (or HPETS orH > something) had and has essentially complete control of the HPETS-2002.H > [Encompass had influence on the content, but not much influence on the > execution]  G It was exactly the same for CETS-2001. You couldn't get to any of thosetL presentations if you hadn't paid for the symposium. And that was in the days$ of Compaq, not HP. Who ran that one?  J > There's some good in Encompass.  But in my opinion, the baby (DECUS) wasM > thrown out with the bathwater.  I personally believe that it is possible to I > bring back the good parts of DECUS, and change Encompass for the mutual-E > benefit of the users and the vendors.  But it's gonna take a lot ofdM > "attitude adjustment".  However, that's another discussion for another day.e  G I hope so. I don't see any reason for someone in my position to support.0 ENCOMPASS after being a DECUS member since 1972.    1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamyl4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  K         This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a countrysK         that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutionallI         heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the values)H         that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court(         Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:16:25 -0400C- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>VJ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(, Message-ID: <3DB71FAB.BF86E3CF@videotron.ca>   Bob Kaplow wrote:t@ > Am I the only one who wants to replace ENCOMPASS with DECUS???   You are not alone.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 18:11:58 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)aJ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(3 Message-ID: <8+KdIYlTwU52@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  [ In article <urea0cnsrmeieb@corp.supernews.com>, "Jeff Killeen" <KilleenJ@toast.net> writes:   F > To the CD issue - we sold so few of them that we lost money on them.  C That is realistic.  You have to order 1000 from my company's vendori/ before the per-CD price drops below one dollar.t   >  WhatiK > has not been made public is the price increase for the DECUS Symposium inoN > 1997 was due to the cost of CD's.  We made decision that we could not affordJ > the loss on the CD's anymore and therefore we increased the price of the0 > Symposium and gave them away to all attendees.  = I don't think anybody objects to a one dollar price increase.   F > If one goes back to 1996 and 1997 one will find postings from people6 > complaining about the turn around time for the CD's.  E My company's vendor will charge more if you want the CDs delivered in1A less than 5 days.  I am rarely unpacked from Symposium in 5 days.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:51:28 -0400 ) From: "Jeff Killeen" <KilleenJ@toast.net>rJ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(/ Message-ID: <urea0cnsrmeieb@corp.supernews.com>3  A > Any one else remember when DECUS was free information exchange?S  L I think you would be hard pressed to find a intellectually honest person whoL could ever remember it being free.  Many things the User Group did was at noJ charge to the membership thanks to healthy subsidies from Digital coveringI production and operations costs.  On a worldwide basis that was about $10tH million dollars per year in the very early 1990's.  That is 1990 dollarsG which would be about $20 million in today's dollars.  Leaving aside the H issue of the CD's it is a myth that DECUS was free information exchange.K What it was, for the intellectually honest, was the exchange of informationnK and the cost of that was subsidized by Digital.  Of course that was also in3D the era of fat gross margins on every system that went out the door.  J To the CD issue - we sold so few of them that we lost money on them.  WhatI has not been made public is the price increase for the DECUS Symposium in1L 1997 was due to the cost of CD's.  We made decision that we could not affordH the loss on the CD's anymore and therefore we increased the price of theL Symposium and gave them away to all attendees.  In effect we forced everyoneG to buy one.  One of the business realities is there is a hidden cost toAL maintaining an order fulfillment system.  There is a magic point at which isC less expensive to ship a CD to everyone versus the overhead cost of-! maintaining a order entry system.   D If one goes back to 1996 and 1997 one will find postings from peopleH complaining about the turn around time for the CD's.  We made a business? decision that the best way to solve this problem was to put the2K presentations on-line.  While not everyone will be happy with that businessfG decision we believe for the resources available it made the informationr7 available to most folks in the fastest possible manner.d  L Encompass, CUO, ITUG, OV Forum, and Interex are all both businesses and UserH Groups.  As businesses they all need to deal with business realities.  IK suspect that if Encompass could sell an additional 100 memberships it could*L supply every member a CD of the Symposium hand-outs.  However, the data fromJ the past suggests that while this is a hot issue for few - it is something" that is only an issue for a few...     --   Jeff Killeen   All Info: http://www.Killeen.ccd  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------r  H "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD> wrote in message- news:u+gpxKmpQeqT@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > In article <uqrvtopl4p9b91@corp.supernews.com>, "Encompass - HP Enterprise2 Technology Symposium" <KilleenJ@toast.net> writes:& > > www.hpets2002.com - login required >aL > Looks like you gotta pay $1495.00 to access the site. Even the porno sites > offer cheaper access!l >v > :-(o >eD > My thanks to folks like Mr. Parris who are posting their materials > elsewhere. >lA > Any one else remember when DECUS was free information exchange?s >jK > He!!, I could even convince my management to pay $80 for the symposium CDbH > when they wouldn't send me to the conference. Now there's no CD at anyI > price, and you have to go to the symposium to have access to any of thec > information. >s@ > Am I the only one who wants to replace ENCOMPASS with DECUS??? >i2 > 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy5 > Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/i >:K >         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a_E >         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about K >         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in thet8 >         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:25:54 -0400m) From: "Jeff Killeen" <KilleenJ@toast.net>aJ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(/ Message-ID: <urec0v65c42s6a@corp.supernews.com>   ? > I don't think anybody objects to a one dollar price increase.r    L I don't remember the numbers in detail so please don't ask me to defend themJ but with all the loaded costs including S&H it was around $50 per unit.  IE suspect it could be done for less today which is why I tossed out thee$ example of 100 additional members...   --   Jeff Killeen   All Info: http://www.Killeen.cct  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------)  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:8+KdIYlTwU52@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <urea0cnsrmeieb@corp.supernews.com>, "Jeff Killeen" <KilleenJ@toast.net> writes: > H > > To the CD issue - we sold so few of them that we lost money on them. > E > That is realistic.  You have to order 1000 from my company's vendor;1 > before the per-CD price drops below one dollar.  > 	 > >  WhatrJ > > has not been made public is the price increase for the DECUS Symposium inI > > 1997 was due to the cost of CD's.  We made decision that we could nott affordL > > the loss on the CD's anymore and therefore we increased the price of the2 > > Symposium and gave them away to all attendees. >e? > I don't think anybody objects to a one dollar price increase.M > H > > If one goes back to 1996 and 1997 one will find postings from people8 > > complaining about the turn around time for the CD's. >eG > My company's vendor will charge more if you want the CDs delivered inbC > less than 5 days.  I am rarely unpacked from Symposium in 5 days.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:47:27 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> J Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(, Message-ID: <3DB734FB.E0F1E74C@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote:.J > issue of the CD's it is a myth that DECUS was free information exchange.  L Wasn't there a policy stating that all materials presented at DECUS symposia< was "public domain" (or such) and was freely distributable ?   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 20:31:39 -0500; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)aJ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(3 Message-ID: <$Hcdts4LJpoE@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  [ In article <urea0cnsrmeieb@corp.supernews.com>, "Jeff Killeen" <KilleenJ@toast.net> writes:tL > To the CD issue - we sold so few of them that we lost money on them.  WhatK > has not been made public is the price increase for the DECUS Symposium in N > 1997 was due to the cost of CD's.  We made decision that we could not affordJ > the loss on the CD's anymore and therefore we increased the price of theN > Symposium and gave them away to all attendees.  In effect we forced everyoneI > to buy one.  One of the business realities is there is a hidden cost toe  E I don't recall there being both CDs and paper. I know there was paperfI session notes (a PITA to lug around) for Anaheim 1994. And I know that mymK 3rd symposium Providence 1999 was CD. Can't recall what Anaheim 97 was, buttL I don't ever recall there being both. IT went from paper at the symposium to polycarbonate after the fact.   F > If one goes back to 1996 and 1997 one will find postings from peopleJ > complaining about the turn around time for the CD's.  We made a businessA > decision that the best way to solve this problem was to put therM > presentations on-line.  While not everyone will be happy with that businesscI > decision we believe for the resources available it made the informationu9 > available to most folks in the fastest possible manner.h  A Online is great. If you make them public. Since 2001 they've been 
 pay-per-view.v  N > Encompass, CUO, ITUG, OV Forum, and Interex are all both businesses and UserJ > Groups.  As businesses they all need to deal with business realities.  IM > suspect that if Encompass could sell an additional 100 memberships it could N > supply every member a CD of the Symposium hand-outs.  However, the data fromL > the past suggests that while this is a hot issue for few - it is something$ > that is only an issue for a few...  L I'd been able to get my company to order one, and even three copies of everyJ symposium CD that we didn't attend. Even a first level supervisor can signI off on $100 or less. Now, going to a symposium for a week ends up costingiD around $5000, and that requires VP approval, not possible in current economic conditions.  J I guess the policy of Encompass is that information is only for those withJ unlimited budgets. I think you've priced yourself right out of your targetL market. Then you complain that GQ BOB, Curly, and Carly are killing off VMS.. I think some of the wounds are self inflicted.  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy.4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  H         We have awakened a sleeping giant and instilled in it a terrible3         resolve. -- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:37:36 -0400g( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>J Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(, Message-ID: <3DB740D0.7090008@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Bob Kaplow wrote:* > @ >>Am I the only one who wants to replace ENCOMPASS with DECUS??? >> >  > You are not alone. >   ; Actually, you're most likely a member of the vast majority.a  P And I'd like to see the letters 'D', 'E', and 'C' on the next system I purchase.   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 20:35:30 -0500; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) J Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(3 Message-ID: <rtyyBZOJ6kLN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3DB740D0.7090008@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:i > JF Mezei wrote:t >  >> Bob Kaplow wrote: >>  A >>>Am I the only one who wants to replace ENCOMPASS with DECUS???r >> e >> You are not alone.w > = > Actually, you're most likely a member of the vast majority.m > R > And I'd like to see the letters 'D', 'E', and 'C' on the next system I purchase.  I When we got our first Wildfire in jsut after the announcement, I went and*J counted |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logos inside the box. I quit after a couple dozen.L That was 2 years after the COMPACtion. I'm awaiting the first box to come inH with an HP logo on it, to do the same thing. I suspect they won't be too
 hard to find.o  . What are they going to do? Change DCL to HPCL?    1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy64 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  H         We have awakened a sleeping giant and instilled in it a terrible3         resolve. -- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:05:56 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> J Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(, Message-ID: <3DB75567.2F8FAF1E@videotron.ca>   Bob Kaplow wrote: 0 > What are they going to do? Change DCL to HPCL?  ! MC AUTHORIZE MOD */CLI=HPCL.EXE  ,  & And a lot of renames in sys$system....   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:55:34 -0500H1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>uJ Subject: Re: HP-ETS 2002 Presentations are on-line - Pay-per-view ONLY :-(' Message-ID: <3DB76126.FF30E098@fsi.net>    Jeff Killeen wrote:n > [snip]N > Encompass, CUO, ITUG, OV Forum, and Interex are all both businesses and UserJ > Groups.  As businesses they all need to deal with business realities.  IM > suspect that if Encompass could sell an additional 100 memberships it couldpN > supply every member a CD of the Symposium hand-outs.  However, the data fromL > the past suggests that while this is a hot issue for few - it is something$ > that is only an issue for a few...  H The phrase "vocal minority" comes to mind. Some folks want it bad enoughG to raise a stink. Others want it, but aren't willing to put up with theuH hassles of arguing for it, so they just forsake it. Others would want itE if it was freely available and hassle-free outside of download issuessG that are beyond anyone's control, but immediately discard anything that.2 poses artificial obstacles (sort of like OpenVMS).  F I think if we can knock down the pay-per-view barriers, we'll generateD enough interest and good will to make back the minor investment that7 requires in fairly short order come the next symposium.r  F ...or just grant permission to a philanthropic type (you can't see it,6 but my hand is raised) to cut CD-Rs on a demand basis.  , ...IMHO; your mileage may vary considerably.   -- s David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/D   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:46:47 +0200o+ From: John MacLean <mcleanj@swissonline.ch>h) Subject: Re: java on VMS - help requesteds. Message-ID: <3DB6E087.8CADEA92@swissonline.ch>   Bob Koehler wrote: > k > In article <3DB43FB2.E5C30DE1@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:oL > > If HP is serious about java on VMS then perhaps they should write a bookD > > or at least some decent documentation about the whole e-business( > > subject.  How about it you HP guys ? > H >    Why?  I just use Sun's Java documentation.  You want an HP label on >    the front of that?Y    H I would like something that covers all the issues that are VMS-specific,F the kinds of things that are not the "lowest common denominator".  TheH use of logicals, global symbols, powerful DCL lexical functions, indexedF file access, cluster-oriented utilities... not mickey-mouse sequential files in ASCII.n     John   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2002 21:07:30 GMT) From: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte)o- Subject: Re: Just bought an RA8000, now what?o? Message-ID: <3db70f92$0$85002$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>I  X In <hPmVdZRrrFNL@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.> nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:    < >OK, I couldn't help myself. Somebody was auctioning off two< >dual controller RA8000s on eBay for $1000 each, so I bought >them.  7 >Now I need to figure out what to do with them. For nows8 >I plan to use the parts out of one to upgrade an RA70009 >and keep the other for spares ( I didn't take the BA370se? >because of the high shipping costs ). I'll want to use it withe5 >VMS. Are there particular versions of ACS I'll need?t   The latest rev ACS is 8.7r  > You might need to check the hardware rev, starting with ACS8.6, there are minimum rev hardware requirements.  0 >Does VMS support FC-AL ( or will it be doing so: >in the near future) or do I need a switch? Any particular7 >host adapter I should get? I see KGPSA-BCs on eBay for # >pretty low prices, will they work?a  1 VMS is FC-SW only AFAIK. VMS uses KGPSAs alright.-   --' |   / o / /_  _   				wilko@FreeBSD.org02 |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte				Arnhem, the Netherlands   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2002 23:14:52 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)K Subject: Re: Lurt tables* Message-ID: <ap7ahc$io3$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  c In article <VLzr9.144664$O8.3533814@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes: ? :Thanks to both Tom and Kerry.  That is what I was looking for.t  G   I do not know how the LMF license unit requirements table (LURT) URL:   1     http://www.compaq.com/products/software/info/i  D   hasn't already been added into the OpenVMS FAQ, but I'll fix that.    / :"John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in messageo8 :news:zpyr9.143945$O8.3525094@twister.tampabay.rr.com...G :> Where can I find the equivalent of the old License Usage Req. Table?     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comm   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2002 22:22:37 GMT+ From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu>i Subject: Re: Multia help neededj, Message-ID: <ap77fd$pcf$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  ) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:n. > In article <ap2dno$6dh$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>,0 > 	"Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu> writes: >>  1 >> How much is too much to pay for your budget?  u  F > Budget??  Where do you think the money for this is coming from??  MyK > "budget" is whatever I find left in my pocket at the end of a pay period.i > Trust me, it ain't much.  F Oh, the same place my budget comes from.  Many of my purchases are forF my own use, and I have to budget how much I can spend on my hobby.  ItH still is a budget, just not a departmental one.  There is almost as bad,G the university has received a few budget cuts this year already.  Still.C waiting for the provost to authorize any replacement hires for the o= people who left under the early retirement program last June.o  L >>                                              I buy most of my memory fromM >> Data Memory Systems, www.datamem.com, and they list 32 MB parity SIMMs fortK >> $15 each.  The 64 MB ones do get pricey at $89 or $139 depending on how oK >> many chips they are made of.  They are fairly knowledgable on memory foroD >> non-PC or Mac use, so may be able to help find compatible memory.  K > Other than the likelihood that they would be expensive (I have never seeneI > anyone selling Mac stuff that wasn't) when I first got this box I tried G > ordering memory for it from "real" companies.  They would gladly taketG > the order and when you started making inquiries weeks later about why L > it hadn't arrived you find out no one has any, but if they ever get enoughL > orders maybe they'll get some in.  Say what you will about comodity parts, > at least you can find them.e  G These are commodity parts, DMS specializes in selling memory for Mac's,nF PC's and other systems.  Their prices are almost the lowest around forD new memory with life time warranty, and they will price match.  TheyF will say up front whether they have the part or not, they do drop fromF their listings parts they can not keep in stock.  They will try to getD items not listed as well.  Anyways, the parity SIMM's are listed for PC's, not Mac's.   Joe Heimann    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:28:01 -0400h; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e" Subject: Re: NCDware for OpenVMS ?$ Message-ID: <3db6ea49$1@news.si.com>  J >I got a mail from NCD which states NCDware V4.1.141 as the latest for theE >OpenVMS platform, while V5.1.140 is the current version (without VMSr support)  J NCDware is an X terminal O/S.  It would seem to me that the only thing youJ need is a computer that will honor the download requests from the terminalI when it wants an O/S load.  After that, standard connection method shoulds suffice.  L How does the NCD terminal ask for a load?  TFTP?  BOOTP?  Certainly at leastK some VMS-based IP stacks can do those.  I can't see why there would have to G be specific OpenVMS support in the X terminal.  Perhaps they're talkingt about the DECwindows fonts.n --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comm= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent'< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:32:42 +0200 4 From: Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr (Didier Morandi)= Subject: Re: Need Help really Quick Please: 10/23/02 Noon CSToC Message-ID: <1fkizql.1mun22f14iv5daN%Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>e  A In case someone asks, the reverse command is SET CONSOLE GRAPHICS    (I like the "dead sergeant" :-)r   D.  ( Shawn <shawnm@cotepe.carenet.org> wrote:  E > Thank you for your response that was the command I was looking for.  >  >  > Shawn  > D > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:19:53 -0700, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> > wrote: > I > >I believe it's "SET CONSOLE SERIAL" issued at the dead sergeant prompt6	 > >">>>".p   -- e ---------------------------n Posted with MacSoup 2.4.6a Remove .nospam to email me.'   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 12:08:05 -0700- From: carlos.costa@datawest.ca (Carlos Costa)t% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWINGt= Message-ID: <7edc7395.0210231108.62c30faf@posting.google.com>x   >He saidE >that he is no longer maintaining the CSWING, so I don't know who is.l* >If there is someone, could they speak up? >-  $ First, there are no guarantees here!  C Where is the latest and greatest code base for CSWING?  I'll take ai lookC at it to see if there is anything that can be done to easily remedy> thef situation.   --6 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            t5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" f    F Ok, Mr VAXman. Here is where I found the code. The latest version that I have found is 3.7.6.  + http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/narnia/r   Thanks.S   Carlos   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 15:19:48 -0700- From: carlos.costa@datawest.ca (Carlos Costa)o% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING = Message-ID: <7edc7395.0210231419.57c61801@posting.google.com>   h "DAniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message news:<BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKEEOKCBAA.dallen@nist.gov>...: > The status checking in this code snippet is not correct: > I > 	1)  The QIO status should check not for SS$_NORMAL but any error value   E I am missing something here. The code doesn't check for SS$_NORMAL it @ checks for not-equal-to SS$_NORMAL. Wouldn't that be the same asB checking for any error value? In other words, if the statis is NOTB NORMAL then an error occurs. If there was an error then SS$_NORMALD would not return, would it? (again, I'm not an expert in VMS C, doesC the status return mean that the system call itself was ok or not or F that the system call found an error? In other words, if some bad valueD was passed to the sys$qiow would that result in a NOT SS$_NORMAL, orE only if the sys$qiow found an disk error or something? does that makee sense to anyone but me??)0  E > 	2)  After the IOSB check for SS$_NOMOREFILES you need to check forRE > 	    any other error conditions.  This is probably the cause of theg > 	    your problem.  C This is what I mean. Are you saying that even if SS$_NORMAL is trueo that there could be errors?t   > J > 	This is not an issue with the OS version per se.  This type of specificJ > 	error checking is simply poor coding which manifests itself when the OSC > 	or run-time environment generates a new/unexpected error status.o  E Yes, but a point I've made before, that I think is important, is thatwF according to HP/Compaq 7.3-1 is "binary compatible" and that "there isD no need for ISVs to test on the new release", so there should not be$ any "new/unexpected error status's".       >         status = sys$qiow(0,$ >                           channel,' >                           IO$_ACCESS,f% >                           &iosb[0],r >                           0, >                           0,& >                           &fib_desc,/ >                           DSC1(dir_template), ) >                           &file_length,g, >                           DSCA1(filename),  >                           acb, >                           0);' > # >         if (status != SS$_NORMAL)hE >             panic(status,"io$_access directory lookup","get dirs");n* >         if (iosb[0] == SS$_NOMOREFILES){ >             return(TRUE);e >         }  >    Carlos   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Oct 2002 00:48:17 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)r% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING1* Message-ID: <ap7g0h$io3$5@web1.cup.hp.com>  m In article <7edc7395.0210230720.7b424eb4@posting.google.com>, carlos.costa@datawest.ca (Carlos Costa) writes:e  J :...I have not programmed much under VMS to be able to answer you fully...  G   Interesting.   Please see topic (1661) in the OpenVMS Ask The Wizard uG   area, and please see the Programming Concepts manual for information.      :        status = sys$qiow(0,t# :                          channel,e& :                          IO$_ACCESS,$ :                          &iosb[0], :                          0,d :                          0,s% :                          &fib_desc,.. :                          DSC1(dir_template),( :                          &file_length,+ :                          DSCA1(filename),c :                          acb,o :                          0); :o" :        if (status != SS$_NORMAL)D :            panic(status,"io$_access directory lookup","get dirs");    E   This construct is usually indicative of a more general programming  D   error, since this construct mishandles all but one of the possibleD   successful condition returns from sys$qiow.  In other words, thereF   are a gazzillion potential successful status code returns that will :   trigger the display of the panic message -- erroneously.     ) :        if (iosb[0] == SS$_NOMOREFILES){e; :            fprintf(fcac,"after sys$qiow, NOMOREFILES\n");f :            return(TRUE);
 :        }    D   Based solely on the quoted C code, this looks like latent bugs in B   the code were exposed, as the error handling appears inadequate.E   I'd want to see how to rest of the routine actually processes that     $qio, however.  B   In other words, the odd behaviour you are seeing could easily beB   that of cswing and how cswing is coded, and not that of OpenVMS.  B   Ask The Wizard topic (1661) contains a list of some of the more ?   common latent bugs found lurking within various applications.r  A   I have yet to find what I am sure is a full and current copy of-?   the cswing code, though I've found and looked at at least onecC   of the various copies found archived around the 'net.  What I sawdD   had at least a few latent bugs, based on a cursory inspection.  AsC   at least one other poster has requested, please provide a pointerP0   to what you believe is the current cswing kit.  A   I also lack the cycles to debug Freeware.  I can't promise I'll B   even have a chance to look at the cswing code, if the pointer isD   provided  (Folks here in OpenVMS are obviously rather busy workingE   on the port of OpenVMS over to Intel Itanium.  I have a file system !   to write.  No pun intended. :-)w  C   I spent quite some time debugging zip back around the release of  B   OpenVMS V7.2, as I was certain that the OpenVMS V7.2 upgrade hadB   broken it -- I was (very) wrong, BTW.  The version of zip I was D   working with had latent bugs, and the OpenVMS upgrade had changed >   the timings and the stack layout enough to expose the bugs.   B   We went through a very similar exercise a couple of months back C   both here in OpenVMS Engineering and here in the newsgroup, when bA   timing changes within the OpenVMS XFC support exposed a latent  C   bug within the Freeware VD64 package.  (Of course, it was assumedi9   that XFC was at fault.  Erroneously, as it turned out.)B  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 04:13:27 GMTa! From: Carlos Costa <calo@shaw.ca>:% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING2( Message-ID: <B9DCC176.18BF%calo@shaw.ca>  L On 10/23/02 5:48 PM, in article ap7g0h$io3$5@web1.cup.hp.com, "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote:x  F > Interesting.   Please see topic (1661) in the OpenVMS Ask The WizardG > area, and please see the Programming Concepts manual for information.n >  > ... B > In other words, the odd behaviour you are seeing could easily beB > that of cswing and how cswing is coded, and not that of OpenVMS. > A > Ask The Wizard topic (1661) contains a list of some of the mored? > common latent bugs found lurking within various applications.o >   J One of my points, though, that no one has really answered is how about the assertion from HP/Compaq thatr  9 "Compaq is confident that the new release has 100% binary : compatibility with the previous release. If an applicationE compatibility problem is discovered, Compaq will assign the problem aoF high priority and commit to providing a fix. There is no need for ISVs= to test on the new release or produce a new application kit."-  G Certainly, CSWING is not the only application in the VMS world that has H dubious coding. And just because an application is not freeware does not2 make it automatically good code (and vice versa!).  J The above statement even says that "There is no need for ISVs to test". ToI me that means that if it works under 7.3-0, no matter what bugs it has intI it, it should work under 7.3-1. By the way, my Gold Support TAM confirmed-K and duplicated the problem, so it's not just me. Apparently they use CSWINGg, too, but they haven't upgraded to 7.3-1 yet.  I Doesn't the fact that an application that works under 7.3-0 but not under'J 7.3-1 concern any of the VMS engineers?? Couldn't this be an indication ofF some bug that crept into VMS, for example, because of the ODS5 coding.C (that's just an example, I have no idea, and I'm *not* using ODS5).     A > I have yet to find what I am sure is a full and current copy of ? > the cswing code, though I've found and looked at at least one C > of the various copies found archived around the 'net.  What I sawoD > had at least a few latent bugs, based on a cursory inspection.  AsC > at least one other poster has requested, please provide a pointera0 > to what you believe is the current cswing kit. >   " I got my copy (version 3.7.6) from  + http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/narnia/     A > I also lack the cycles to debug Freeware.  I can't promise I'llxB > even have a chance to look at the cswing code, if the pointer isD > provided  (Folks here in OpenVMS are obviously rather busy workingE > on the port of OpenVMS over to Intel Itanium.  I have a file system$! > to write.  No pun intended. :-)a  G Well, whatever you can find would be helpful. From the emails I've beensF getting there are apparently a *lot* of people using CSWING out there. CSWING users UNITE!    > B > I spent quite some time debugging zip back around the release ofB > OpenVMS V7.2, as I was certain that the OpenVMS V7.2 upgrade hadA > broken it -- I was (very) wrong, BTW.  The version of zip I wassC > working with had latent bugs, and the OpenVMS upgrade had changede= > the timings and the stack layout enough to expose the bugs.b > A > We went through a very similar exercise a couple of months backlB > both here in OpenVMS Engineering and here in the newsgroup, when@ > timing changes within the OpenVMS XFC support exposed a latentC > bug within the Freeware VD64 package.  (Of course, it was assumed 9 > that XFC was at fault.  Erroneously, as it turned out.)u  J Have you ever come across the other case? Where you thought that it was an5 application bug but then found that it was a VMS bug?x     > O > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------(J >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------qE >       Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >    Carlos   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 14:33:58 -0500; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) 0 Subject: Re: Question about f$getsyi and Itanium3 Message-ID: <T5xRg3n8IJoJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  o In article <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027B85@rlghncst964.usps.gov>, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> writes:s > ' > I'm writing some forward-looking DCL.. > 5 > f$getsyi("ARCH_TYPE") returns 1 if VAX, 2 if Alpha.= > 7 > Will the return value be 3 for Itanium-based systems?c   -1 :-)  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy)4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a,C         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go abouteI         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in thee7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard ,   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:37:12 GMTr> From: andekl_no@saaf_spam.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_Ekl=F6f?=) Subject: Re: read QuickTime?< Message-ID: <1fkj2rc.18qsjjq1f6qxagN%andekl_no@saaf_spam.se>  5 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote:c  " > And this is a "registered" test.   Welcome to the club :-)e   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 13:03:40 -0700* From: ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell)- Subject: RMS 7.3-1 Patch v0200 incorrect linkd= Message-ID: <8debc3ff.0210231203.3ac1466b@posting.google.com>s  - The RMS patch kit listed at (watch for wrap):e  Y http://ftp.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3-1/dec-axpvms-vms731_rms-v0200--4.READMEi   has a link to:  v http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3-1/fortran/7.5/dec-axpvms-vms731_rms-v0200--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe   which is broken.  
 It should be:a  b http://ftp.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3-1/dec-axpvms-vms731_rms-v0200--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:10:29 -0700.+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>t  Subject: Re: Scheduling Question' Message-ID: <3DB6E615.5050007@MMaz.com>0   Herbert Stoeri wrote:t   > Hi,a ><A > I stumbled on a problem, most likely connected to schduling of  G > processes on openVMS ALPHA 7.3. User A  runs an interactive programm  E > (gnuplot) doing a lot of I/O and using a neglegible amount of CPU, hH > user B runs interactively a CPU-bound program, doing only computation D > and no I/O. Everything works fine, A's program gets it's priority   > boost and is fully responsive. >sC > If however A runs both the CPU-bound program and the interactive AK > program under his (A's) username, the interactive program gets very slow.n  G You are unclear as to whether the CPU task is non-interactive, as well  H as what the base priority is, and the second task which A is also doing E that is interactive, you provide no details;  Is it CPU, I/O, Memory oD intensive?  Is it the same program?  If the same program, are there F large memory demands that you are overlooking?  If both are producing D significant I/O, is it being bottlenecked on the same file (ie lock # conflicts), same drive, or adapter?w  ; You are very generic and have provided too little detail....   Barrye     -- u  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028c   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2002 22:28 CDTB' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)h  Subject: Re: Scheduling Question- Message-ID: <23OCT200222285878@gerg.tamu.edu>w  / "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes...0 }Herbert Stoeri wrote: }> Hi, }>B }> I stumbled on a problem, most likely connected to schduling of H }> processes on openVMS ALPHA 7.3. User A  runs an interactive programm F }> (gnuplot) doing a lot of I/O and using a neglegible amount of CPU, I }> user B runs interactively a CPU-bound program, doing only computation uE }> and no I/O. Everything works fine, A's program gets it's priority u! }> boost and is fully responsive.i }>D }> If however A runs both the CPU-bound program and the interactive L }> program under his (A's) username, the interactive program gets very slow. } H }You are unclear as to whether the CPU task is non-interactive, as well I }as what the base priority is, and the second task which A is also doing  F }that is interactive, you provide no details;  Is it CPU, I/O, Memory E }intensive?  Is it the same program?  If the same program, are there rG }large memory demands that you are overlooking?  If both are producing  E }significant I/O, is it being bottlenecked on the same file (ie lock n$ }conflicts), same drive, or adapter? } < }You are very generic and have provided too little detail... }  }Barry  A There is also the question of how user A is running both of them.a  > Are the completely separate processes, or is one (or both) runC as a subprocess? The subprocess way can kill you via quota sharing.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:05:07 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> # Subject: Re: Soft CPU Affinity: off ' Message-ID: <3DB76363.4B868C17@fsi.net>n   Carl Perkins wrote:s > / > "Steven Xie" <r33300@email.mot.com> writes... / > }This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  >  > Mimes are evil.   D A mime is a terrible thing, and it must be stopped in our lifetime - before it kills somebody.0   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/5   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:44:35 -04008; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>a- Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.3 and SMTP authorization $ Message-ID: <3db6ee2b$1@news.si.com>  K >All that is changed is the EHLO command which seems to be identical to the0 >HELO command.  I But they're not identical.  EHLO is the Extended Hello message, conveying J that there are additional extensions to the SMTP handshaking commands that can be used. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 07:59:48 +0200 4 From: Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr (Didier Morandi)> Subject: The VMSNET group of forums (was: Re: Acrobat Reader?)C Message-ID: <1fkjrte.1xzgh9g1weeh98N%Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>   G Thank you Hoff, I stand accused. But I'm happy to hear about the VMSNET H group of forums again. There is nearly no activity in there. And the VMS	 FAQ sez:    E "Another source of free software is the vmsnet.sources newsgroup (andrF the corresponding vmsnet.sources.d discussion group).  See the monthlyC posting "vmsnet.sources archives" for a list of sites which archiver submissions to vmsnet.sources".y  9 There is as of today no messages in vmsnet.sources nor iniH vmsnet.sources.d. And I did not find the monthly posting "vmsnet.sources* archives". Maybe the FAQ could be updated.  C Also, It looks like these forums are mostly a public repository forg? japanese cartoons posted there by the www.frozen-layer.com site C WebMaster, and also some DECUS members activity, which is generallys8 followed-up in our Group (but for pdp and a few others).   D.  $ Hoff Hoffman <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote: ../..DI >   If you want to read Adobe Acrobat PDF-format files on OpenVMS, pleaseaJ >   see the information included in the OpenVMS Frequently Asked QuestionsH >   (FAQ) on PDF viewers.  Search for PDF or Acrobat or Adobe or similarI >   within the FAQ, and you will find the information and tools you seek.a     -- - ---------------------------o Posted with MacSoup 2.4.6b Remove .nospam to email me.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:01:38 GMTb From: danco@ns2.pebble.org Subject: Re: TPU port to Linux1 Message-ID: <slrnarducr.17f.danco@ns2.pebble.org>o  I In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2606E167A@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>,  Kesav Tadimeti wrote:c  F jed has a reasonably good EDT emulator mode.  I always install it whenF installing (Redhat) Linux.  SEDT is also farily good.  I regularly useE SEDT on our HP-UX machines.  They both probably configure, build, ando9 run on other UNIX or UNIX-like operating systems as well.n   - Dans   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:48:31 -0400i& From: "Daniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>> Subject: RE: VMS status checking, was OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING: Message-ID: <BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKOEPFCBAA.dallen@nist.gov>   -----Original Message-----4 From: Carlos Costa [mailto:carlos.costa@datawest.ca]) Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:20 PMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING.    1 "DAniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message 6 news:<BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKEEOKCBAA.dallen@nist.gov>...; >> The status checking in this code snippet is not correct:n >>J >> 	1)  The QIO status should check not for SS$_NORMAL but any error value  F >I am missing something here. The code doesn't check for SS$_NORMAL itA >checks for not-equal-to SS$_NORMAL. Wouldn't that be the same asjC >checking for any error value? In other words, if the statis is NOT-C >NORMAL then an error occurs. If there was an error then SS$_NORMALoE >would not return, would it? (again, I'm not an expert in VMS C, doesoD >the status return mean that the system call itself was ok or not orG >that the system call found an error? In other words, if some bad value E >was passed to the sys$qiow would that result in a NOT SS$_NORMAL, orrF >only if the sys$qiow found an disk error or something? does that make >sense to anyone but me??)  F 	Sorry about the wording - what I mean to say is that in the VMS worldD 	SS$_NORMAL is simply one of many possible success values that mightD 	be returned.  The proper way to check the return value for an errorC 	code is to test the low-order bit of the value.  If set no error - F 	if clear error.  The status return from the QIO system service simplyE 	means the call was executed (i.e. all of the parameters were present0B 	and in range).  It is not the status of the I/O operation itself.> 	That information is returned in the I/O Status Block (IOSB!).  F >> 	2)  After the IOSB check for SS$_NOMOREFILES you need to check forF >> 	    any other error conditions.  This is probably the cause of the >> 	    your problem.   D >This is what I mean. Are you saying that even if SS$_NORMAL is true >that there could be errors?  A 	Yes, assuming your SS$_NORMAL reference is to the value returned A 	by the QIO system service.  A successful QIO call without errors @ 	returns a success status as the value of the QIO system serviceB 	call and a success value in the IOSB status word.  Typically this? 	value is SS$_NORMAL but you should not presume this and shouldp- 	use the aforementioned bit test methodology.. >>K >> 	This is not an issue with the OS version per se.  This type of specificoK >> 	error checking is simply poor coding which manifests itself when the OS-D >> 	or run-time environment generates a new/unexpected error status.  F >Yes, but a point I've made before, that I think is important, is thatG >according to HP/Compaq 7.3-1 is "binary compatible" and that "there is/E >no need for ISVs to test on the new release", so there should not ben% >any "new/unexpected error status's".   E 	Not a safe assumption and not what is meant by upward compatability.-H 	The V7.3 I/O User's guide documents 82 possible status returns for this? 	call.  This code ignores 81 of them and treats them as successeH 	conditions.  Correct the code to handle any error statuses you get from
 	the IOSB:  - 		if((iosb[0] & 1) == 0) lib$signal(iosb[0]);g  F 	Once we know what error, if any, is being returned we can discuss howD 	this fits the VMS model of compatability.  If a new status is beingB 	returned for the NOMOREFILES case you have a point.  If increasedF 	error checking of the call or some change in the environment in whichE 	you are running the program has caused the new status to be returnednD 	I'd say the compatability claim stands.  I'm betting on the latter.   	HTH,b   	Dan     >         status = sys$qiow(0,$ >                           channel,' >                           IO$_ACCESS, % >                           &iosb[0],s >                           0, >                           0,& >                           &fib_desc,/ >                           DSC1(dir_template),i) >                           &file_length, , >                           DSCA1(filename),  >                           acb, >                           0);n >t# >         if (status != SS$_NORMAL)hE >             panic(status,"io$_access directory lookup","get dirs");n* >         if (iosb[0] == SS$_NOMOREFILES){ >             return(TRUE);e >         }b >n   Carlos   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:24:45 GMTl From: danco@ns2.pebble.org> Subject: Re: VMS status checking, was OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING1 Message-ID: <slrnarehao.1ce.danco@ns2.pebble.org>k  N In article <BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKOEPFCBAA.dallen@nist.gov>, Daniel Allen wrote:    - > if((iosb[0] & 1) == 0) lib$signal(iosb[0]);c    H That's obstensibly "STS$M_SUCCESS" rather than "1" (for us picky types).   #include <stsdef.h>e .  .  .y< if (!(iosb.status & STS$M_SUCCESS)) lib$signal(iosb.status);   - Danw   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 16:27:35 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)-7 Subject: RE: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance 3 Message-ID: <55NLKeeIR58S@eisner.encompasserve.org>j  x In article <R5U9OYKjGMat@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:Y > In article <01C27909.91B88210@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: J >> Isn't PDF a published format? Word certainly wasn't last time I looked,H >> people have to reverse engineer it if they want to write code to read >> it. >>   > / > The PDF format appears to be documented here:' > ; > http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/acrosdk/docs.html  > 8 > (About half way down, under File Format Specification)  ? Bummer.  I couldn't read the document on how to decode the PDF t' file format because it was a .PDF file.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:11:16 GMTc# From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.nete7 Subject: Re: VMS tabletop without Office(tm): no chance-5 Message-ID: <3db72c2e.33475405@news.bellatlantic.net>T  F On 21 Oct 2002 08:11:41 -0500, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  E >   Guess again.  I used to delete Outlook.exe from my PCs every timelE >   some patch installed it.  Under the latest service pak on W2K notaF >   only did MS change the name to hide the guilty, they made it "partE >   of" the OS, it's opened at boot, and we've not yet found a way to 6 >   make a delete actually work.  Oh, but we've tried!   Hi Bob,o  D Check the net for the remove procedure.  One of the nasties is that  MS uses...     [.ShellClassInfo] + UICLSID= [some long string of numbers here]n  < To make directories hide from winders explorer and the like.@ You dont want to know whats hidden in the files collected there.C Then look at the indexer that office puts in (fastfind) and all the $ data files it creates.  what a mess.   Allison Parent% Addess obscured to try and avoid spam    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 12:45:38 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) 4 Subject: Re: Why does this file-spec work only once?= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0210231145.6b3bfe93@posting.google.com>	   Alan,r  ( Do the NETSERVER.LOG files yield a clue?  
  DL Phillips s  :  spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message:  news:<b096a4ee.0210210906.1906ad34@posting.google.com>... > Hello, > E > Why does a file-spec containing "password" as shown below cause the.G > second (and all subsequent) lexical functions that use it to fail? If G > I make any change at all to "password", even just capitalizing it, ito > works fine. Example: >  > DCL> TYPE ACCESS-EXAMPLE.COM= > $    AB = "NODE""USER password""::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"  > $    SH SYM AB" > $    NODE = F$PARSE(AB,,,"NODE") > $    SH SYM NODE" > $    NAME = F$PARSE(AB,,,"NAME") > $    SH SYM NAME= > $    AB = "NODE""USER PASSWORD""::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"n > $    SH SYM AB" > $    NODE = F$PARSE(AB,,,"NODE") > $    SH SYM NODE" > $    NAME = F$PARSE(AB,,,"NAME") > $    SH SYM NAME > DCL> > DCL> @ACCESS-EXAMPLE8 >   AB = "NODE"USER password"::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"" >   NODE = "NODE"USER password"::"
 >   NAME = ""n8 >   AB = "NODE"USER PASSWORD"::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"" >   NODE = "NODE"USER password"::" >   NAME = "NAME"- > DCL> > 4 > If I simply repeat the block, I get the following: >  > DCL> @ ACCESS-EXAMPLE.COM;8 >   AB = "NODE"USER password"::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"" >   NODE = "NODE"USER password"::"
 >   NAME = ""u8 >   AB = "NODE"USER password"::DISK:[DIR]NAME.TYP;12345"
 >   NODE = "" 
 >   NAME = ""n > DCL> > G > In the second block, it doesn't work at all! Other variations produce C > similarly interesting results. What's going on here? Thanks. (VMSy > V6.2)e >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmant   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 15:48:25 -0500; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)oK Subject: Re: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sittinga3 Message-ID: <ZXhsx5boXYFb@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  c In article <3DB6F291.F0A5C003@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:v > "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:h > f >> In article <3DB6D4A4.C02262E4@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:	 >> <snip> : >> <lots of interesting comment, re: the Republican Right> >>M >> Unfortunately, there is not one, but two, Corporate Parties - and voting a P >> party ticket, Democrat *or* Republican, will only continue to encourage them. > : > Yeah, but with Republicans, you get a 100% likelihood of6 > electing a member of the Corporate Party and they're7 > also likely to be a card-carrying member of America'se/ > Fundamentalist Radicals (a.k.a. "Oil Qaeda").t > 6 > With Democrats, it's only a (oh, I dunno) 75% chance8 > that you'll get a Corporatist, only a very slim chance7 > of a Fundamentalist, and you could get Bernie Sandersk- > caucusing with *THE MAJORITY* for a change!d > 2 > I'll take my chances any day on a slim chance of! > goodness rather than no chance!w  4 And I say vote against both of them on November 5th!  I I'd rather vote for someone with virtually no chance of winning than giverL the appearance of supporting the scumbags of either "major" political party,, both of whom I find to be totally repulsive.    1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamyh4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  K         This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a countryaK         that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutionaleI         heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the values H         that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court(         Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:04:22 -04004* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>K Subject: Re: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting 2 Message-ID: <TIidncAR-63a4iqgXTWc3w@metrocast.net>  H "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD> wrote in message- news:ZXhsx5boXYFb@eisner.encompasserve.org...e? > In article <3DB6F291.F0A5C003@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidtt% <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes: ! > > "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:S > >dB > >> In article <3DB6D4A4.C02262E4@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt% <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:a > >> <snip>h< > >> <lots of interesting comment, re: the Republican Right> > >>F > >> Unfortunately, there is not one, but two, Corporate Parties - and voting aL > >> party ticket, Democrat *or* Republican, will only continue to encourage them.d > >r< > > Yeah, but with Republicans, you get a 100% likelihood of8 > > electing a member of the Corporate Party and they're9 > > also likely to be a card-carrying member of America'sc1 > > Fundamentalist Radicals (a.k.a. "Oil Qaeda").@ > >f8 > > With Democrats, it's only a (oh, I dunno) 75% chance: > > that you'll get a Corporatist, only a very slim chance9 > > of a Fundamentalist, and you could get Bernie Sanders / > > caucusing with *THE MAJORITY* for a change!I > > 4 > > I'll take my chances any day on a slim chance of# > > goodness rather than no chance!o >o6 > And I say vote against both of them on November 5th! > K > I'd rather vote for someone with virtually no chance of winning than giveuG > the appearance of supporting the scumbags of either "major" politicale party,. > both of whom I find to be totally repulsive.  E While my heart agrees with you, my head agrees with Atlant.  Choosing'E between two evils is repugnant, but when there are major identifiable K differences that make one evil markedly worse than the other I believe thatdI it makes sense to go for the lesser and then work forward from that base, E rather than chance having to work forward from an even less desirable 	 position.I  G Allowing the situation to get worse in the hope that it will eventuallyeK galvanize improvements is the stuff of revolution, not political evolution. K Until the possibility of using the latter means is pretty well proven to be>! zero, I'll continue to prefer it.p   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2002 14:16:15 GMT7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton)tO Subject: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty" ! Message-ID: <SzAFakNRjzOY@rabbit>w  c In article <3DB6D4A4.C02262E4@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:O <snip>7 <lots of interesting comment, re: the Republican Right>s  J Unfortunately, there is not one, but two, Corporate Parties - and voting aM party ticket, Democrat *or* Republican, will only continue to encourage them.s     > 7 > All of these are possible and legal, but don't expect ! > the Corporate Party to do them.t > 6 > Real change begins with voting a straight Democratic > ticket on Novermber 5th! >  > Atlant >  >  >  >  -- h Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"e "Lose the MAPS"O   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:18:34 -0700 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>Y Subject: RE: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty" prett 0 Message-ID: <01C27A96.B9C95DE0@sulfer.icius.com>  ? There used to be a gentleman back in England who called himselfiF "Screaming Lord Sutch". He started the only political party I have anyE faith in: "The Monster Raving Loonie Party". Having lived out here inIG the colonies for a few years I don't know if they managed to keep goingrG since his death, but their main reason for existance was to poke fun at D politicians and politics. They used to field an impressive number of8 candidates at election time, to uphold this noble cause.  F Was it Napoleon who said "first shoot all the lawyers"? I vote for the politicians being next.c   Shanet   -----Original Message-----9 From: Atlant Schmidt [mailto:atlantnospam@mindspring.com]o* Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:04 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComaC Subject: Re: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you arer sitting pretty" pretty" pretty"      "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:o  ? > In article <3DB6D4A4.C02262E4@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt=% <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  > <snip>9 > <lots of interesting comment, re: the Republican Right>  > L > Unfortunately, there is not one, but two, Corporate Parties - and voting aI > party ticket, Democrat *or* Republican, will only continue to encourageS them.t  8 Yeah, but with Republicans, you get a 100% likelihood of4 electing a member of the Corporate Party and they're5 also likely to be a card-carrying member of America's - Fundamentalist Radicals (a.k.a. "Oil Qaeda").   4 With Democrats, it's only a (oh, I dunno) 75% chance6 that you'll get a Corporatist, only a very slim chance5 of a Fundamentalist, and you could get Bernie Sanders + caucusing with *THE MAJORITY* for a change!O  0 I'll take my chances any day on a slim chance of goodness rather than no chance!1  , Vote Democratic on November 5th; the job you save may be your own!<   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2002 15:50:44 -0500; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)SY Subject: RE: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty" prettM3 Message-ID: <yr427uqKV3gj@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  W In article <01C27A96.B9C95DE0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: A > There used to be a gentleman back in England who called himself H > "Screaming Lord Sutch". He started the only political party I have anyG > faith in: "The Monster Raving Loonie Party". Having lived out here in I > the colonies for a few years I don't know if they managed to keep going,I > since his death, but their main reason for existance was to poke fun ataF > politicians and politics. They used to field an impressive number of: > candidates at election time, to uphold this noble cause. > H > Was it Napoleon who said "first shoot all the lawyers"? I vote for the > politicians being next.e   Shakespeare.  I Your second step is probably not necessary. Most politicians are lawyers;y7 which explains why our political system is such a mess.i  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"e& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<B Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf: NIRA:	http://www.nira-rocketry.org	NAR:	http://www.nar.org  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamyy4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  K         This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a countrytK         that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutional.I         heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the valueshH         that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court(         Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:03:45 -0400t2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>Y Subject: Re: [OT] - Parties (Re: HP tells VMS users "Relax, you are sitting pretty" prett . Message-ID: <3DB6F291.F0A5C003@mindspring.com>   "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:a  e > In article <3DB6D4A4.C02262E4@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:s > <snip>9 > <lots of interesting comment, re: the Republican Right>. > L > Unfortunately, there is not one, but two, Corporate Parties - and voting aO > party ticket, Democrat *or* Republican, will only continue to encourage them.   8 Yeah, but with Republicans, you get a 100% likelihood of4 electing a member of the Corporate Party and they're5 also likely to be a card-carrying member of America'st- Fundamentalist Radicals (a.k.a. "Oil Qaeda").s  4 With Democrats, it's only a (oh, I dunno) 75% chance6 that you'll get a Corporatist, only a very slim chance5 of a Fundamentalist, and you could get Bernie Sandersn+ caucusing with *THE MAJORITY* for a change!   0 I'll take my chances any day on a slim chance of goodness rather than no chance!   , Vote Democratic on November 5th; the job you save may be your own!E   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:21:49 +0000 2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again4 Message-ID: <20021023182149.I15801@eisenschmidt.org>  c Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Simon Clubley (clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP) Wrote:l > J > Do a Google search for "Lada Jokes" to get a feeling for the high regard > that Ladas are held in. :-)- >  > Eg:- > + > Why do insurance companies enjoy Lada's? V > They are never stolen. . > J > > As he says, he's looking for a better sig.  It used to be "Microsoft, M > > the Lada of the computer world" or something.  I pointed out that that's sL > > really an insult to Lada.  OK, they do make a low-end product, but they E > > aren't that bad and don't claim they are competition for Audi or nH > > whomever.  (Lada is a Russian company; I heard recently that GM had - > > bought them.  http://www.lada.ru/eng.php)l > Q > I am now beginning to understand how much you _really_ dislike Microsoft... :-)d  F Never, *never* underestimate a person's capacity to hate bad software.  B While I certainly hold a special place in my cold, black heart forA hating Microsoft, I had to take a two week vacation after my lastoA project to "recharge my hate batteries", because the line betweeneB cynicism and apathy had so blurred that I couldn't tell when I was: being sarcastic and when I was actually telling the truth.  A One of non-IT managers actually asked me a couple months ago, "issD there any software you do like?" My response was "No, but we do have% one application that I don't *hate*."   C None of the above mentioned software is written by, or runs on, any-> Microsoft product. Your typical badly designed, poorly writtenE applications (I mean, who needs to specify which fields I'm insertingeE data into in a SQL statement -- I can assume the table structure willh, never change, right?). One even runs on VMS.  C If you want to get me really going about software, ask me about the F IBM developernet article about recursion in XSL. Because your web pageF needs to be rendered 2^N times slower. But hey, *someone* must want to@ create dynamic drop downs with Fibonacci numbers in them, right?   > Simon. >  > --  D > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       ( > "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."  E To actually drift back on topic (the topic itself being offtopic), if G Microsoft were a car, I'm thinking Corvair. The last system I put in isi; probably an Edsel (so over engineered, it has a push-buttona? transmission on the steering wheel), and our sinester VMS-basedo= billing system is the rusty frame of a Dodge Dart (engine notp included). h  $ Perpetually angry at/about software, John   -- f/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>sC    Public Key   |  http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/pgp.ascaD    Fingerprint  |  5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2J Is this mail an attachment? http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.en.html  L "I'm curious to try [DB2] out, since Oracle is much more sinister than IBM."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:23:35 -0700h$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>0 Subject: RE: [OT] - we're back on old cars again0 Message-ID: <01C27A86.A2E1D270@sulfer.icius.com>  G Microsoft would have to be one of those cars the manufacturer sold witheA a known fault in the petrol tank that made them explode when hit.uB Apparently they worked out it would cost them less to settle a few, lawsuits than to actually fix the product...   Shanep   -----Original Message-----9 From: John Eisenschmidt [mailto:jweisen@eisenschmidt.org]y* Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 11:22 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again    - Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Simon Clubleyb5 (clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP) Wrote:e > J > Do a Google search for "Lada Jokes" to get a feeling for the high regard > that Ladas are held in. :-)h >  > Eg:F > + > Why do insurance companies enjoy Lada's? w > They are never stolen. s > J > > As he says, he's looking for a better sig.  It used to be "Microsoft, M > > the Lada of the computer world" or something.  I pointed out that that's pL > > really an insult to Lada.  OK, they do make a low-end product, but they E > > aren't that bad and don't claim they are competition for Audi or  H > > whomever.  (Lada is a Russian company; I heard recently that GM had - > > bought them.  http://www.lada.ru/eng.php)  > M > I am now beginning to understand how much you _really_ dislike Microsoft...  :-)[  F Never, *never* underestimate a person's capacity to hate bad software.  B While I certainly hold a special place in my cold, black heart forA hating Microsoft, I had to take a two week vacation after my lastsA project to "recharge my hate batteries", because the line between2B cynicism and apathy had so blurred that I couldn't tell when I was: being sarcastic and when I was actually telling the truth.  A One of non-IT managers actually asked me a couple months ago, "ispD there any software you do like?" My response was "No, but we do have% one application that I don't *hate*."   C None of the above mentioned software is written by, or runs on, anyr> Microsoft product. Your typical badly designed, poorly writtenE applications (I mean, who needs to specify which fields I'm insertingiE data into in a SQL statement -- I can assume the table structure willa, never change, right?). One even runs on VMS.  C If you want to get me really going about software, ask me about theeF IBM developernet article about recursion in XSL. Because your web pageF needs to be rendered 2^N times slower. But hey, *someone* must want to@ create dynamic drop downs with Fibonacci numbers in them, right?   > Simon. >  > -- eD > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       ( > "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."  E To actually drift back on topic (the topic itself being offtopic), ifaG Microsoft were a car, I'm thinking Corvair. The last system I put in isc; probably an Edsel (so over engineered, it has a push-button ? transmission on the steering wheel), and our sinester VMS-based/= billing system is the rusty frame of a Dodge Dart (engine not  included). :  $ Perpetually angry at/about software, John   -- a/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>-C    Public Key   |  http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/pgp.ascpD    Fingerprint  |  5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2 Is this mail an attachment?-. http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.en.html  F "I'm curious to try [DB2] out, since Oracle is much more sinister than IBM."d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:59:33 +0200w From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>0 Subject: Re: [OT] - we're back on old cars again& Message-ID: <3DB6FFA5.7090407@home.nl>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  4 >In article <HqKAOLF3boOM@eisner.encompasserve.org>,1 >	koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:a >  l > I >>In article <3DB5C483.8090001@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:f >> >>     >>L >>>The original Lada was a ruggedized Fiat 124. It had stronger suspension, @ >>>stood a bit higher on the weels, and had a very good heather.	 >>>        >>>a# >>   Translation please, "heather"?  >> >>     >> >nG >I think he mis-typed "heater".  Especially considering the environmenth" >these cars were sold for use in.  > F Indeed I meant heater, it was a slip of the keyboard :-) . And as you 5 suggested it is a bit chilly in Russia in wintertime.r  $ > I seem to remember the Skoda being2 >described as "a farm tractor with a heater".  :-) >r >billc >  >  n >c   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.587 ************************