1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 30 Oct 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 600       Contents: Re: 100baseT for Turbochannel 
 Re: <None>
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 Re: <None>+ Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangs + Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangs + Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangs + Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangs  Re: ASSERTFAIL Bugcheck  Re: ASSERTFAIL Bugcheck ' Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP? ' Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP? ' Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP? ' Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP? ' Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP? ' Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?  equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS RE: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS Re: equivalent of touch in VMS RE: equivalent of touch in VMS< Re: equivalent of touch in VMS (How to create an empty file)' how to read .bck files on a windows box + Re: how to read .bck files on a windows box + RE: how to read .bck files on a windows box + Re: how to read .bck files on a windows box ) Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened ) Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened ) Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened ) Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened ) Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened ) Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened  Re: Immutable laws of the PC0 Re: installing the Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Java  Re: Lib$spawn and $PIPE question& Re: Looking for contract opportunities3 Not sure if anyone else I seen this from LinuxWorld 7 Re: Not sure if anyone else I seen this from LinuxWorld 7 Re: Not sure if anyone else I seen this from LinuxWorld 7 Re: Not sure if anyone else I seen this from LinuxWorld  Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWING Re: Palladium article  RE: Palladium article  RE: Palladium article . Re: pathworks 6.1 installed  want to try SAMBA% Re: Pathworks v6 (AS) & Win2000 (SBS) % Re: Pathworks v6 (AS) & Win2000 (SBS) ! Re: perl, perlrte and WASD Server ! Re: perl, perlrte and WASD Server ! Re: perl, perlrte and WASD Server  Re: Rejuvenating OpenVMS RE: RMS File Locks.   Re: So I went to the HP IT forum  Re: So I went to the HP IT forum  Re: So I went to the HP IT forum  Re: So I went to the HP IT forum  Re: So I went to the HP IT forum TCPIP buglet ... (UCX$UCP.EXE)  Re: Timezone-change observations  Re: Timezone-change observations Re: UCX Telnet help 8 Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)8 Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)8 Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)8 Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)8 Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)8 Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)8 Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)8 Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)8 RE: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)- VMS 7.1 & SYS$INPUT, SYS$COMMAND and READ(5,) A Re: VUPS, MIPS, microfortnights and other arcane units of measure A RE: VUPS, MIPS, microfortnights and other arcane units of measure A Re: VUPS, MIPS, microfortnights and other arcane units of measure P Re: Why did the VMS programmers confuse Halloween with Christmas this  year? thiK Re: Why did the VMS programmers confuse Halloween with Christmas this year?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:48:46 -0500 0 From: "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com>& Subject: Re: 100baseT for Turbochannel/ Message-ID: <urvlb41cqs4e87@corp.supernews.com>   K The DEFTA is a FDDI Turbochannel adapter.  Most of the old DECstations that L were TurboChannel had an on-board Ethernet nic,  though it was probably justJ 10 mb.  TurboChannel probbly came and went before Fast ethernet became the2 standard.   Here's the link for DEFTA info though.  : http://digitalnetworks.net/dr/adapfdi/manuals/deft2-in.pdf   Alan  - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message / news:apmm1t$330n3$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...  > > > "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@emayle.com> schreef in bericht> > news:Xiyv9.803$rA5.62@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net...H > > I have a DEC 3000-600. Is there a 100baseT Turbochannel adapter that) > > would fit this machine, or just FDDI?  > ' > The DEFTA is what you're looking for.  > I > > Just knowing what the part number is would be nice, but if you know a F > > retailer, that would be great too. I imagine they'll want a stupidJ > > amount of money for something like this, though. Unless one happens to > > pop up on eBay ... > > D > > It would be nifty to find one of those SCSI to Ethernet adaptorsE > > Cabletron used to make for Macs, but I can't see myself writing a  > > driver for it. > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:24:14 GMT 6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> Subject: Re: <None> 4 Message-ID: <3DBF7AD5.4050403@digitalsynergyinc.com>   Paul Sture wrote: I > This is a difficult one, I'll admit, but I have just been asked to come G > up with a figure to compare apps on VMS/Alpha versus how many MIPS on A > an IBM mainframe (apparently the IBM folks are talking MIPS, so ) > that is the measure we have to go by)..  > E > The question is roughly "How many MIPS does your Alpha app need, so + > that we can price that up in IBM terms?".  > A > I know this question is as long as a piece of string (and would @ > you prefer that in inches or centimetres, or with fries, Sir?) > B > I can use the VUP.COM piece of DCL to come up with some ballpark0 > figure, but really don't feel happy with that. >  > Any advice considered. >  > TIA. > G When I converted a lot of IBM mainframe applications to Vax systems, I  G used 2 IBM MIP = 1 VAX MIP (VUP) and always had enough excess capacity  % that the converted system ran faster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:36:42 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: <None> . Message-ID: <3DBFA82A.4000701@nospamn.sun.com>   Paul Sture wrote: I > This is a difficult one, I'll admit, but I have just been asked to come G > up with a figure to compare apps on VMS/Alpha versus how many MIPS on A > an IBM mainframe (apparently the IBM folks are talking MIPS, so ) > that is the measure we have to go by)..  > E > The question is roughly "How many MIPS does your Alpha app need, so + > that we can price that up in IBM terms?".  > A > I know this question is as long as a piece of string (and would @ > you prefer that in inches or centimetres, or with fries, Sir?) > B > I can use the VUP.COM piece of DCL to come up with some ballpark0 > figure, but really don't feel happy with that. >  > Any advice considered. >    Very hard to measure.   9 I know of only one benchmark that IBM have done on a S390 ! which has also been run on Alpha.   9 But there is one and its SAP, now clearly SAP hasn't been 8 run on OpenVMS but it has been run on the same platforms by HP but running Tru64.  8 So you could use the relative SAP performance of the IBM2 and Alpha servers to produce a MIPS rating for the: Alpha box, you would have to quantify any differences that8 running Tru64 rather than OpenVMS woould make but it may give you something to work on.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:46:49 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: <None> J Message-ID: <dpRv9.105939$mxk1.94422@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 9 wrote in message news:3DBFA82A.4000701@nospamn.sun.com...  >  >  > Paul Sture wrote: K > > This is a difficult one, I'll admit, but I have just been asked to come I > > up with a figure to compare apps on VMS/Alpha versus how many MIPS on C > > an IBM mainframe (apparently the IBM folks are talking MIPS, so + > > that is the measure we have to go by)..  > > G > > The question is roughly "How many MIPS does your Alpha app need, so - > > that we can price that up in IBM terms?".  > > C > > I know this question is as long as a piece of string (and would B > > you prefer that in inches or centimetres, or with fries, Sir?) > > D > > I can use the VUP.COM piece of DCL to come up with some ballpark2 > > figure, but really don't feel happy with that. > >  > > Any advice considered. > >  >  > Very hard to measure.  > ; > I know of only one benchmark that IBM have done on a S390 # > which has also been run on Alpha.  > ; > But there is one and its SAP, now clearly SAP hasn't been : > run on OpenVMS but it has been run on the same platforms > by HP but running Tru64. > : > So you could use the relative SAP performance of the IBM4 > and Alpha servers to produce a MIPS rating for the< > Alpha box, you would have to quantify any differences that: > running Tru64 rather than OpenVMS woould make but it may  > give you something to work on.    L Not meaning to drift OT, but despite the flame wars you and Fred often driftD into, it's replies like you just posted to Paul that should make allB recognize that everyone in c.o.v. can make valuable contributions,5 regardless of the stripes one wears on one's sleeves.   K Of course you probably have an ulterior motive in thinking that it would be > easier to steal a customer from VMS than an IBM mainframe. ;-)  L I think that the accepted wisdom is that Alpha/Tru64 is about 5% faster thanK Alpha/VMS on non-disk intensive operations. It's probably a wash on the i/o  to disk.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:05:10 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: <None> . Message-ID: <3DC00336.6080309@nospamn.sun.com>   John Smith wrote: M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; > wrote in message news:3DBFA82A.4000701@nospamn.sun.com...  > : >>So you could use the relative SAP performance of the IBM4 >>and Alpha servers to produce a MIPS rating for the< >>Alpha box, you would have to quantify any differences that: >>running Tru64 rather than OpenVMS woould make but it may  >>give you something to work on. >  >  > N > Not meaning to drift OT, but despite the flame wars you and Fred often driftF > into, it's replies like you just posted to Paul that should make allD > recognize that everyone in c.o.v. can make valuable contributions,7 > regardless of the stripes one wears on one's sleeves.  > M > Of course you probably have an ulterior motive in thinking that it would be @ > easier to steal a customer from VMS than an IBM mainframe. ;-) >   # The thought hadn't entered my mind.   8 Incedentally Compaq did a parallel version 4.x SD number3 using ES45's, Amdahl did the same with one of their + plug compatibles, it has an IBM MIP rating.   8 Shouldn't be too difficult to get CPU for CPU comparison3 though you need to be carefull since the ES45 has a , better per CPU performance than larger GS's.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:13:15 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: <None> 2 Message-ID: <JJKcnXygCbymvF2gXTWc3g@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:dpRv9.105939$mxk1.94422@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...   ...   J > Of course you probably have an ulterior motive in thinking that it would be@ > easier to steal a customer from VMS than an IBM mainframe. ;-)  H That does bring to mind a question that Paul's first post raised:  do weC know in which direction this planned migration is going?  There was F something about the wording that made me suspect it might be *to* IBM.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:31:41 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: <None> I Message-ID: <hAVv9.119790$Q3S.76212@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:JJKcnXygCbymvF2gXTWc3g@metrocast.net... > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF > news:dpRv9.105939$mxk1.94422@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >  > ...  > L > > Of course you probably have an ulterior motive in thinking that it would > beB > > easier to steal a customer from VMS than an IBM mainframe. ;-) > J > That does bring to mind a question that Paul's first post raised:  do weE > know in which direction this planned migration is going?  There was H > something about the wording that made me suspect it might be *to* IBM.    L My cynical streak was suggesting that Andrew would prefer the app to stay onL Alpha/VMS as he'd probably consider that to be a more likely Sun customer in the future.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:31:35 +0100 . From: "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>4 Subject: Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangsB Message-ID: <aus-2356B9.14313530102002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>  I Most importantly, I was able to install a minimum v7.3-1 from the system  ? on a ODS-2 disk. With the min_OVMS 7.3-1 (on the ods-5 disk) I  D successfully backed up my VMS 7.3-1 from the ODS-5 disk to an ODS-5  disk. :)  H This morning I tried again to install the minimum system from the ODS-5 C system. A very  short version of the VERIFY output is shown below:  G initially and then after about 20 minutes. The Mac and VersaTerm are a  % reasonable replacement for a printer.   G Then I restarted the INSTALL_MIN without VERIFY and waited 90 minutes;  ! the minimum OVMS did not install.       % -------------------------------------   - $@SYS$SYSTEM:AXPVMS$PCSI_INSTALL_MIN.COM dka0 > $!  Copyright 2002 Compaq Information Technologies Group, L.P. $set = "set"% $set symbol /scope=(nolocal,noglobal)  $saved_privs = ""  $sa_message = "" $scratch_defined = 0 $default_set = 0 $say = "write sys$output" 9 $saylong = "@sys$system:axpvms$pcsi_install_messages.com"  $on control_y then goto y_exit $on warning then goto err_exit& $sa_message = f$environment("MESSAGE")6 $set message /facility /identification /severity /textD $if f$search("sys$system:axpvms$pcsi_install_messages.com") .eqs. "" $else * $close/error=010_message_open min$messages $010_message_open:( $open/error=err_exit/read min$messages -+ sys$system:axpvms$pcsi_install_messages.com  $010_message_read:: $read/error=err_exit/end=010_message_end min$messages inpt+ $inpt = f$edit(inpt,"TRIM,COLLAPSE,UPCASE") D $if f$extract(0,9,inpt) .nes. "$!MESSAGE" then goto 010_message_read $010_message_read:    E ++++++  After about 20 minutes I looked again. Judging from the long  5 list, the INSTALL reaches the following loop quickly.  +++++++    $goto 070_read_minpcf  $070_read_minpcf: 7 $read/error=err_exit/end=070_end_minpcf min$pdf pdf_rec 1 $pdf_rec = f$edit(pdf_rec,"COMPRESS,TRIM,UPCASE") , $if f$element(0," ",pdf_rec) .eqs. "PRODUCT" $endif+ $if f$element(0," ",pdf_rec) .eqs. "OPTION"  $endif $goto 070_read_minpcf  $070_read_minpcf: 7 $read/error=err_exit/end=070_end_minpcf min$pdf pdf_rec 1 $pdf_rec = f$edit(pdf_rec,"COMPRESS,TRIM,UPCASE") , $if f$element(0," ",pdf_rec) .eqs. "PRODUCT" $endif+ $if f$element(0," ",pdf_rec) .eqs. "OPTION"  $endif   --  B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:44:50 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)4 Subject: Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangs2 Message-ID: <S7Tv9.12$Av2.529514@news.cpqcorp.net>  C In article <aus-2356B9.14313530102002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>,  0 "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:  K >... I tried again to install the minimum system from the ODS-5 system. ...   , Do you have /PARSE_STYLE=EXTENDED in effect?  < If so will a SET PROCESS /PARSE=TRADITIONAL fix the problem?   --  I       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:59:57 +0100 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> 4 Subject: Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangs+ Message-ID: <3DC0100D.3B52A144@mediasec.de>   . > Do you have /PARSE_STYLE=EXTENDED in effect? > > > If so will a SET PROCESS /PARSE=TRADITIONAL fix the problem?  I If that were to help, it would be a bug in the install procedure, surely?    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:36:47 +0100 3 From: "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> 4 Subject: Re: ??== OVMS 7.3-1:.PCSI_INSTALL_MIN hangsB Message-ID: <aus-53AA69.18364730102002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>  2 In article <S7Tv9.12$Av2.529514@news.cpqcorp.net>,:  hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) wrote:  E > In article <aus-2356B9.14313530102002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>,  2 > "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes: > M > >... I tried again to install the minimum system from the ODS-5 system. ...  > . > Do you have /PARSE_STYLE=EXTENDED in effect? > > > If so will a SET PROCESS /PARSE=TRADITIONAL fix the problem?  I Interesting idea - I'll try it after I return to the office next week on  	 Thursday.   H I haven't set anything non-standard. Wlll $show process show what parse 
 is in effect?    --  4 Hans Magnus Aus, Wuerzburg, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:25:34 +1100 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Subject: Re: ASSERTFAIL Bugcheck, Message-ID: <3DBF977E.2030007@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Paddy O'Brien wrote:G > Not to denigrate Robert's comments, but this needs to be reported to   > DEC/COMPAQ/HP asap.  > J > I would go as far as copying my dump file to somewhere else so that the L > failure was still available.  Give the field engineer access to that file. > ? > Even with the source, you aren't going to be able to do much.  > F > For programmers, this is similar to any internal compiler bugcheck.  > Report immediately.  >  > Regards, Paddy >  >  > Robert Deininger wrote:  > @ >> In article <843706dc.0210290634.11a3f890@posting.google.com>,& >> horn@shsu.edu (James T Horn) wrote: >> >>J >>> Anyone familar with the ASSERTFAIL bugcheck? We had a system crash dueG >>> to this bugcheck and can't find anything in connection with OpenVMS  >>> for this error.  >> >> >>K >> It generally means an OS component recognized an "impossible" condition, L >> and gave up.  It committed suicide.  The hope is that by crashing as soonI >> an the condition is detected, it will be easier to isolate the fault.  H >> It's pretty certain this bugcheck was explicitly requested for a very >> specific reason.  >>F >> Much worse is to let a horrible internal corruption propagate untilI >> something _really_ bad crashes the system.  By then, the root cause if   >> often lost in the bit bucket. >>L >> Your crash will need to be analyzed by HP, but you can get a clue via SDAJ >> if you have a crash dump file.  (If you don't have a dump file, HP willJ >> first have to help you configure the system to generate a dump the next	 >> time.)  >>( >> $ ANALYZE/CRASH_DUMP <dump file name> >> SDA> CLUE CRASH >>J >> This should tell you which system image requested the BUGCHECK.  For anH >> ASSERTFAIL, the crash address from the dump will point to a specific  >> placeL >> in the source listings, and they will likely be a clear indication of the; >> symptom, if not the cause.  But that analysis is for HP.  >>L >> For a user, CLUE CRASH might point you to a particular component, and you@ >> could look for ECO kits addressing problems in the component. >>K >> If you have a software service contract, now is a good time to use it...       G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 06:39:43 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: ASSERTFAIL Bugcheck3 Message-ID: <4GgeVpJ8fB8A@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-2910022146400001@1cust97.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  > E > Much worse is to let a horrible internal corruption propagate until H > something _really_ bad crashes the system.  By then, the root cause if > often lost in the bit bucket.   5    Along with some critical piece of the user's data.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 06:35:50 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?3 Message-ID: <1ZwRzvP$ublo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <291020021715420332%paul.anderson@hp.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes: > B > We're not thinking of breaking this, but rather adding unrelatedC > functionality to it, and it seems to me that P7 is the least-used  > parameter. >   B    I'd much rather you talk to VMS engineering about adding 8 more    parameters.  E    I know, DCL is so twisted up any change couldbreak the whole thing H    and VMS engineering is very busy doing the IPF port, but talk to them    for us, anyhow.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:49:37 -0500 + From: "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> 0 Subject: Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?5 Message-ID: <apoo1o$3cshi$1@ID-118202.news.dfncis.de>    We do not use P7 either. Marty   F "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net> wrote in message news:3dbf4346$0$1429   We do not use P7.    Dave...   7 "Paul Anderson" <paul.anderson@hp.com> wrote in message     > Dear friends and foes of DCPS, > ; > I was just wondering, does anyone use the P7 parameter in I > DCPS$STARTUP.COM?  It's used for directly-connected serial devices, and F > allows you to specify device characteristics.  (It's passed to a SET. > DEVICE command in DCPS$EXECUTION_QUEUE.COM.) >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:04:39 -0500 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 0 Subject: Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?/ Message-ID: <urvt8bcnio8h47@news.supernews.com>   K I don't even use DCPS$STARTUP.  It's not tuned up for the V5.5 enhancements H to the queue manager and it wants to do a bunch of stuff at startup thatI only needs to be done once.  I made my DCPS queues autostart queues.  The E only thing I have to do at startup is define some DCPS logical names.   H If you're working on it, I would suggest breaking it into two pieces.  AJ startup piece that runs during system startup and a define_new_queue piece1 that is used when you want to define a new queue.   7 "Paul Anderson" <paul.anderson@hp.com> wrote in message / news:291020021715420332%paul.anderson@hp.com...   > Dear friends and foes of DCPS, > ; > I was just wondering, does anyone use the P7 parameter in I > DCPS$STARTUP.COM?  It's used for directly-connected serial devices, and F > allows you to specify device characteristics.  (It's passed to a SET. > DEVICE command in DCPS$EXECUTION_QUEUE.COM.) > B > We're not thinking of breaking this, but rather adding unrelatedC > functionality to it, and it seems to me that P7 is the least-used  > parameter. > A > Here's sample code from DCPS$STARTUP explaining the parameters:  > ) >   $ @SYS$STARTUP:DCPS$EXECUTION_QUEUE - : >       THE_PRINTER -          ! P1 - Execution queue name( >       "IP_RawTCP/hp9000.hp.com:9100" -G >                              ! P2 - Interconnect protocol/device name C >       DCPS_LIB -             ! P3 - Logical name for library(ies) > >       "SIDES=2" -            ! P4 - Default queue parameters> >       "/SEPARATE=FLAG" -     ! P5 - Default queue qualifiersG >       "" -                   ! P6 - Communication speed (serial only) < >       "" -                   ! P7 - Device characteristics3 >       ""                     ! P8 - Verify on/off  >  > Paul >  > -- >  Paul Anderson >   OpenVMS Engineering  >   Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:31:38 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 0 Subject: Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?, Message-ID: <3DC0095B.468064FE@videotron.ca>   John Vottero wrote: J > If you're working on it, I would suggest breaking it into two pieces.  AL > startup piece that runs during system startup and a define_new_queue piece3 > that is used when you want to define a new queue.   N The advantage of the current setup is that your DCPS$STARTUP file contains allK the information recreate your queues should the queue system get zapped etc L etc. So perhaps DCPS$STARTUP could have a 'P1 that can go into "CREATE" modeK with those parameters, or if blank, then it just sets the various logicals, M checks for queue existance and then uses the autostart mechanism to get those  queues started.   L In the case of serial devices, having the opportunity to provide our own SETN TERM parameters would be welcome, as long as they are executed AFTER the stuffD DCPS tries to set. (so that we can override some of the DCPS stuff).   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:00:33 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 0 Subject: Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?+ Message-ID: <app37h$i44$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   b In article <301020021133594430%paul.anderson@hp.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes:@ >In article <1ZwRzvP$ublo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Koehler# ><koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:  >  Yes we use P7 eg  % $ @sys$startup:dcps$execution_queue - K       bg_colour2 -                              ! P1 - Execution queue name D       "serial/bg$colour2" -             ! P2 - Serial Device name orE         -                               !       PrintServer node name L       dcps_lib -                        ! P3 - Logical name for library(ies)G       ""-                               ! P4 - Default queue parameters N       "/default=(nofeed,form=dcps$xcd_default)/sep=(noburst,flag,notrailer)" -'         ! P5 - Default queue qualifiers I       ""-                               ! P6 - Communication speed(serial <         -                               !      devices only)M       "/spool=(bg_colour2,sys$sysdevice:)"-     ! P7 - Device characteristics <       ""                                ! P8 - Verify on/off $   J ie we setup spooling in case anyone wants to write directly to the device.9 No idea if anybody has ever written any program to do so.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader Middlesex University        N >> I'd much rather you talk to VMS engineering about adding 8 more parameters. > F >Well, that would solve my immediate problem, wouldn't it?  I bet thisG >request is second only to making the DCL command line buffer larger or . >allowing command line editing over two lines. > = >In article <urvt8bcnio8h47@news.supernews.com>, John Vottero  ><John@mvpsi.com> wrote: > A >> I don't even use DCPS$STARTUP.  It's not tuned up for the V5.5 H >> enhancements to the queue manager and it wants to do a bunch of stuffE >> at startup that only needs to be done once.  I made my DCPS queues F >> autostart queues.  The only thing I have to do at startup is define >> some DCPS logical names.  >>  I >> If you're working on it, I would suggest breaking it into two pieces.  8 >> A startup piece that runs during system startup and aD >> define_new_queue piece that is used when you want to define a new	 >> queue.  > % >Do you work for the psychic hotline?  >  >Paul  >  >--  > Paul Anderson  >  OpenVMS Engineering >  Hewlett-Packard Company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:42:39 -0500 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 0 Subject: Re: Does anyone use P7 in DCPS$STARTUP?/ Message-ID: <us0a10fqnfgvbd@news.supernews.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DC0095B.468064FE@videotron.ca... > John Vottero wrote: L > > If you're working on it, I would suggest breaking it into two pieces.  AH > > startup piece that runs during system startup and a define_new_queue piece 5 > > that is used when you want to define a new queue.  > L > The advantage of the current setup is that your DCPS$STARTUP file contains all I > the information recreate your queues should the queue system get zapped  etc I > etc. So perhaps DCPS$STARTUP could have a 'P1 that can go into "CREATE"  modeC > with those parameters, or if blank, then it just sets the various 	 logicals, I > checks for queue existance and then uses the autostart mechanism to get  those  > queues started.  >   H DCPS$STARTUP would only restore your DCPS queues.  What about your batch5 queues, SMTP queues, forms, characteristics etc, etc.   E Plus, if someone makes a change to a DCPS queue and forgets to update J DCPS$STARTUP, you could lose the change the next time the system boots.  IL prefer to let the queue manager database be the "gold standard" then I run aL command procedure that uses f$getqui to examine the queue database and build) a command procedure that can recreate it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:59:03 +0530 4 From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com># Subject: equivalent of touch in VMS I Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2607580BA@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>   
 Hello all,K What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX this  would be touch.    TIA  Tadimeti Kesav KEANE INDIA Ltd.
 E9 - E12, SDF  NEPZ NOIDA - 201 305 
 U.P, INDIA   Telefon: +91-120-456 8210 (211) % e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 06:45:26 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMS 3 Message-ID: <8ZBHTu3CV1vX@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2607580BA@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>, Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes: > Hello all,M > What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX this  > would be touch.   D    There are touch implmentations for VMS available at lots of sites3    on the web, but to create an empty file you can:   !    $ create <file name goes here>     ^Z   4    Where ^Z is control-Z (the EOF character to DCL).  G    To update the modify date on most systems (because ost systems don't (    use the expiration date fo anything):  >    $set file/expiration_date=17-nov-1858 <file name goes here>      So I have in my login.com:   2    $ touch=="set file/expiration_date=17-nov-1858"  D    But that's not the one you're asking for.  It would be trivial toD    write a command file that used f$search to determine which of the    above to do.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:37:35 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMS . Message-ID: <3DBFE09F.D1528F96@mindspring.com>   Kesav Tadimeti wrote:    > Hello all,M > What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX this  > would be touch.   " There's no supplied utility AFAIK.  7 I used to just keep a DCL command procedure (TOUCH.COM) < that copied the touched items to themselves, thus creating a new version dated now.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:55:11 -0500 + From: "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> ' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMSd5 Message-ID: <apooc6$3h51d$1@ID-118202.news.dfncis.de>    $ create <file name>% ^z                        (control-Z)n   MartyN  A "Kesav Tadimeti" <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote in messageaC news:8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2607580BA@exdel01.del.mgsl.com...-
 Hello all,K What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX thisB would be touch.E   TIAB Tadimeti Kesav KEANE INDIA Ltd.
 E9 - E12, SDF  NEPZ NOIDA - 201 3057
 U.P, INDIA   Telefon: +91-120-456 8210 (211)C% e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:45:33 -0500s2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMSa. Message-ID: <3DBFE27D.62B238C7@mindspring.com>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:o   > Kesav Tadimeti wrote:o >o > > Hello all,O > > What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX thisc > > would be touch.e >o$ > There's no supplied utility AFAIK. >n9 > I used to just keep a DCL command procedure (TOUCH.COM)c> > that copied the touched items to themselves, thus creating a > new version dated now. >p > Atlant  , Sorry -- misread the question. But a command2 procedure will still do the job for at least a few common filetypes.    Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:39:06 +0100g From: "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1>O' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMSi* Message-ID: <apone2$age$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  A "Kesav Tadimeti" <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote in messageeC news:8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2607580BA@exdel01.del.mgsl.com...  > Hello all,A > What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file ?    Hello  create does the job, i.e;p   $ create a.txt ctrl z $ dir a.txte   Regardsm   Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:02:29 -0500i- From: "kenrbnsn1@rcn.com" <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com> ' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMSL: Message-ID: <174210-22002103301522970@M2W028.mail2web.com>  C "Kesav Tadimeti" <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia=2Ecom> wrote in messageuM news:8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2607580BA@exdel01=2Edel=2Emgsl=2Ecom=2E=2E=S =2Ei > Hello all,A > What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file ?S  I Everyone seems to be overlooking the easiest way to create an empty file:     $ copy nl: file=2Etxt  F One line, no need to enter at control-z=2E And you can set up a symbol    $ touch :=3D=3D copy nl:n  
 and use it    $ touch file=2Etxto   Ken   D --------------------------------------------------------------------+ mail2web - Check your email from the web ate http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:22:00 -0800)# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t' Subject: RE: equivalent of touch in VMSm9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEOBFPAA.tom@kednos.com>i  C As the question was posed this works.  However, touch is often usedt8 to change the date of an existing file.  BTW, is nl: the equiv of /dev/null ?   >-----Original Message-----i3 >From: kenrbnsn1@rcn.com [mailto:kenrbnsn1@rcn.com]p* >Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:02 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMS >A >aB >"Kesav Tadimeti" <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote in messageD >news:8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2607580BA@exdel01.del.mgsl.com...
 >> Hello all, B >> What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file ? > J >Everyone seems to be overlooking the easiest way to create an empty file: >h > $ copy nl: file.txtr >oE >One line, no need to enter at control-z. And you can set up a symbol- >- > $ touch :== copy nl: >- >and use it  >a > $ touch file.txt >: >Ken >0E >--------------------------------------------------------------------a, >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ .  >h >E >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eB >Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 >m --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 08:48:46 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)"' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMSt3 Message-ID: <4j02VNIlnrs+@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  c In article <3DBFE09F.D1528F96@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:s > Kesav Tadimeti wrote:  > 
 >> Hello all,wN >> What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX this >> would be touch. >    $ copy nla0: filename.dat E %COPY-S-COPIED, NLA0: copied to DISK:[USER]FILENAME.DAT;1 (0 records)e $ dir filename.dat;g   Directory DISK:[USER]    FILENAME.DAT;1         Total of 1 file.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:32:48 -0500t2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMS-. Message-ID: <3DBFFBA0.81CD1F19@mindspring.com>   Tom Linden wrote:r  E > As the question was posed this works.  However, touch is often used : > to change the date of an existing file.  BTW, is nl: the > equiv of /dev/null ?   Yes.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:49:09 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMSf, Message-ID: <3DBFFF69.2EEA9754@videotron.ca>   David Webb wrote:.P > On existing files in Unix touch updates the file access and modification timesN > but does not change the contents of the files. The equivalent of that actionM > is obtained by using the procedure described by Atlant of copying a file to 	 > itself.e    8 To change the revision date of a *normal* file, you can:  ' SET file chocolate.txt/attrib=(org:seq)n  K You can supply any attribute that are benign (serch as VRS:2 to set versionc
 numbers to 2)o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:23:02 GMTM, From: Nigel Barker <nigel.barker@compaq.com>' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMS 8 Message-ID: <1k00su4taipaaitj68ih5lj4pdssnjm3fu@4ax.com>  2 On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:59:03 +0530, Kesav Tadimeti& <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote:   >Hello all,0L >What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX this >would be touch.  I Assuming that you have installed the GNV UNIX shell (which now ships withs1 OpenVMS 7.3-1) you can just say at the DCL promptt  $ $ bash -c "touch filename.extension"   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurs   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Oct 2002 11:58 CSTh' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ' Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMSa- Message-ID: <30OCT200211584509@gerg.tamu.edu>   8 Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes... }Hello all,OL }What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX this }would be touch. }  }TIA }Tadimeti Kesav.   You can user   $ create empty.filew  D then a control-z to exit back to the command stream (or you can type in some contents for the file).o   You can also use   $ copy nl: empty.file   B which copies some of the nothing from the null device to the file, leaving you with an empty file.t   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 11:32:53 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: RE: equivalent of touch in VMSr3 Message-ID: <Xf3D+HspRxX2@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEOBFPAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: E > As the question was posed this works.  However, touch is often used<: > to change the date of an existing file.  BTW, is nl: the > equiv of /dev/null ?  G    nl: is to /dev/null as tt: is to /dev/tty.  Yep, same kind of stuff.m   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 06:38:58 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) E Subject: Re: equivalent of touch in VMS (How to create an empty file)u3 Message-ID: <7ed5kg7uhIPs@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2607580BA@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>, Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes:  M > What is the equivalent command in VMS to create an empty file? In UNIX thisa > would be touch.I  < CREATE will create a file with some default characteristics,< but those may not be the characteristics you want.  For full/ control of the characteristics use CREATE/FDL .s  ? UNIX lacks the breadth of file characteristics that are presente= in VMS, so there is no corresponding choice to be made there.c   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 06:33:52 -0800( From: h.ohlsson@cats.se (Henrik Ohlsson)0 Subject: how to read .bck files on a windows box= Message-ID: <b6f6fb2f.0210300633.4f8d84ed@posting.google.com>n   Hi!S  B I'm writing a small application to extract .bck files on a windowsE box. I have an app running, but I'm not sure of the exact layout of a C .bck file. For example, how big is each block. Where can I find anyd+ documentation about this? Anyone who knows?nB I downloaded the file vmsbackup.c from freevms.org, but it doesn'tC work out of the box (i.e. it compiles, but doesn't unpack the filese correctly). B I write software for a living, so don't hesitate to get technical.   Thanks,a   Henrik   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:51:31 +0100s From: "labadie" <g.g@127.0.0.1>s4 Subject: Re: how to read .bck files on a windows box* Message-ID: <aporlp$cih$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  5 "Henrik Ohlsson" <h.ohlsson@cats.se> wrote in message 7 news:b6f6fb2f.0210300633.4f8d84ed@posting.google.com...  > Hi!% >sD > I'm writing a small application to extract .bck files on a windowsG > box. I have an app running, but I'm not sure of the exact layout of a,E > .bck file. For example, how big is each block. Where can I find any - > documentation about this? Anyone who knows?0 hellop   On a Vms, do $ bac/list/anal mysave.bck/sav andn $ dir/full mysave.bckd$ This will give you some information.K Usually (but not always), a save-set is a fixed length 32256 (or 9216) byteu records.  ; I think the backup format is detailed somewhere in the doc.o   Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:45:00 -0800n# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>k4 Subject: RE: how to read .bck files on a windows box9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEOCFPAA.tom@kednos.com>   - It might also be useful to look at the scriptk7 reset_backup_saveset_attributes.com, which if not handyz% you can ftp from freja.kednos.com/puba   >-----Original Message-----s% >From: labadie [mailto:g.g@127.0.0.1]v* >Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 6:52 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com5 >Subject: Re: how to read .bck files on a windows box  >n >  > 6 >"Henrik Ohlsson" <h.ohlsson@cats.se> wrote in message8 >news:b6f6fb2f.0210300633.4f8d84ed@posting.google.com... >> Hi! >>E >> I'm writing a small application to extract .bck files on a windowssH >> box. I have an app running, but I'm not sure of the exact layout of aF >> .bck file. For example, how big is each block. Where can I find any. >> documentation about this? Anyone who knows? >hello >i
 >On a Vms, do- >$ bac/list/anal mysave.bck/save >and >$ dir/full mysave.bck% >This will give you some information..L >Usually (but not always), a save-set is a fixed length 32256 (or 9216) byte	 >records.m >"< >I think the backup format is detailed somewhere in the doc. >n >Regards >s >Grarde >g >. >. >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.r; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 >  ---s& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:18:54 +01003" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>4 Subject: Re: how to read .bck files on a windows box5 Message-ID: <app7qk$3o82c$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>l  7 "Henrik Ohlsson" <h.ohlsson@cats.se> schreef in berichte7 news:b6f6fb2f.0210300633.4f8d84ed@posting.google.com.... > Hi!  >hD > I'm writing a small application to extract .bck files on a windowsG > box. I have an app running, but I'm not sure of the exact layout of asE > .bck file. For example, how big is each block. Where can I find any - > documentation about this? Anyone who knows? D > I downloaded the file vmsbackup.c from freevms.org, but it doesn'tE > work out of the box (i.e. it compiles, but doesn't unpack the filesg
 > correctly).?D > I write software for a living, so don't hesitate to get technical. > 	 > Thanks,. >   Henrikc  I incidentally I had that same urge a couple of weeks ago. I found the fileM SYS$EXAMPLES:BACKDEF.HF rather interesting. Right now my program can read a backup saveset and produce output similar toeK BACKUP/LIST on a VMS system. VMS time support is completely missing. I haveg no idea how to interpret1 the 64 bit date&time information on a Wintel box.2 Missing functionality: - no extract functionality" - image backup savesets not tested - no alias support  5 If you're interested in the program, send me an email3   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:00:27 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>2 Subject: Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened/ Message-ID: <urv0sfb5rbm5ca@corp.supernews.com>F   Bill Todd wrote:  K > Ok, Keith:  would you specify exactly what in the above quote suggests in K > any way whatsoever that "at the very highest levels within HP, OpenVMS iswM > now considered just as strategic as any other operating system"?  All I can N > see (looking rather carefully) is a statement by an HP Linux advocate tryingL > to convince Linux users that HP is serious about Linux by throwing out VMSL > and NSK as examples of other systems that HP is 'adept at managing' - not,L > you will note, a statement like 'supporting in a manner equivalent to that1 > in which they support Windows and, say, HP-UX'.g >  > In other words,  > K > 1.  This statement hardly comes from 'the very highest levels within HP'.S  I Bill, did you read the complete article? Earlier in the article it states"O that Martin Fink has recently changed jobs, and is now "the Vice-President and mK CTO within HP's Business Critical Systems (BCS) global business unit." ThiseL makes him directly responsible for the future of OpenVMS and NSK, along with( HP-UX, Linux, and a lot of other things.   -- e
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:00:20 -0500g* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened2 Message-ID: <z72dnRWu0-E4AiKgXTWcpA@metrocast.net>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messagea) news:urv0sfb5rbm5ca@corp.supernews.com...d > Bill Todd wrote: > J > > Ok, Keith:  would you specify exactly what in the above quote suggests inJ > > any way whatsoever that "at the very highest levels within HP, OpenVMS isK > > now considered just as strategic as any other operating system"?  All Id cancI > > see (looking rather carefully) is a statement by an HP Linux advocate  tryingJ > > to convince Linux users that HP is serious about Linux by throwing out VMSII > > and NSK as examples of other systems that HP is 'adept at managing' -- not,I > > you will note, a statement like 'supporting in a manner equivalent to  that3 > > in which they support Windows and, say, HP-UX'.n > >u > > In other words,7 > >.H > > 1.  This statement hardly comes from 'the very highest levels within HP'. >tK > Bill, did you read the complete article? Earlier in the article it states L > that Martin Fink has recently changed jobs, and is now "the Vice-President andtH > CTO within HP's Business Critical Systems (BCS) global business unit." ThisI > makes him directly responsible for the future of OpenVMS and NSK, along  with* > HP-UX, Linux, and a lot of other things.  K No, I just read the page Keith referred to.  VPs, however, are considerably = less than a dime a dozen, especially when they have no 'line' C responsibilities.  Or, for that matter, even when they do have such H responsibility:  Rich Marcello was a VP at Compaq when all he had directG control over was VMS, and we all know how much influence over corporateL direction *he* had.D  F Hint:  the 'very highest level' within HP has hire/fire authority overI upwards of 100K people (at least for a while yet).  Even people like MarkeG Gorham who have no influence whatsoever over corporate policy have suchuK authority over hundreds of people.  How many people report in a direct line:K to Mr. Fink?  And does that group include the VMS, NSK, and HP-UX teams youRL mention above (e.g., can he personally set their marketing budgets to ensureH that VMS's reflects its contribution to the bottom line, thus in Keith'sH words, "supporting OpenVMS on an equal footing"?), or (as seems far moreJ likely) is he merely an 'uncle' with no real authority to make substantiveI decisions on his own but just whatever influence he may have over his ownt bosses?    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:55:21 +0000E' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyE2 Subject: Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened. Message-ID: <3DBFBA99.6030105@nospamn.sun.com>   Dave Gudewicz wrote:K > This is good to hear.  And not a mistake imo.  Hope they can execute thiss > plan.  >  > Thanks Keith > @ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0210291501.1deebeb4@posting.google.com...r > B >>There has been discussion here about whether HP is serious aboutA >>supporting OpenVMS on an equal footing with its other operating'C >>systems.  I think this quote from Martin Fink, head of HP's Linux A >>organization, demonstrates how at the highest levels within HP,sD >>OpenVMS is now considered just as strategic as any other operating	 >>system:l >>G >>"Post-merger HP is 'very adept at managing multiple environments.' He G >>cited VMS support in addition to HP-UX, and Tandem in addition to thesD >>others. Making the point that it's not just a Windows versus Linux >>world for HP these days."  >>= >>http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/1014.hp-p2.htmla >    What plan ??   Regardsh Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:09:57 -0500W- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a2 Subject: Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadened, Message-ID: <3DBFDA23.B8DAAE12@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:K > Ok, Keith:  would you specify exactly what in the above quote suggests inuK > any way whatsoever that "at the very highest levels within HP, OpenVMS is,C > now considered just as strategic as any other operating system"? i    K Perhaps not. But at the very least, HP sales critters are not being told to D avoid mentioning VMS anymore. You'll note that this is a huge changeN considering that Carly avoided mentioning VMS during the merger pregnancy even" though she mentioned all other OS.    D Perhaps the Linux guy was trying to break the "wintel only" image byE mentioning that HP has a multitude of operating systems. Whether this M represents corporate policy, or whether he is just a rogue employee trying totL give HP better credibility outside the wintel world, I don't know. Perhaps aK way to check is to wait a month or two and see if that employee is still on> the HP payroll ...  D Mr Todd, do you admit that since May 7th, there seems to have been aN downgrading of the wintel-only focus and that HP *seems* to be taking VMS more seriously ?   J Whether this is to temporarily stop massive erosion of revenus, or whetherN this is groundwork to eventually start to promote VMS and make it part of HP's core offering, I don't know. >  L This is a bit like the stock market. You can see a dip starting to rise, butL you have no idea whether this is the start of a long steady trend, or just a quick rise to fall back later.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:37:14 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s2 Subject: Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadenedI Message-ID: <egRv9.134120$%h2.76795@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3DBFDA23.B8DAAE12@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:J > > Ok, Keith:  would you specify exactly what in the above quote suggests inJ > > any way whatsoever that "at the very highest levels within HP, OpenVMS isD > > now considered just as strategic as any other operating system"? >  > J > Perhaps not. But at the very least, HP sales critters are not being told toF > avoid mentioning VMS anymore. You'll note that this is a huge changeK > considering that Carly avoided mentioning VMS during the merger pregnancya even$ > though she mentioned all other OS.  & Perhaps a poor counterexample, but....I Home Depot carries thousands of products. Not everything is advertised ineH the newspapers each day. But over the course of time something from justL about every product category does get advertised in the newspaper. That doesL not mean to say that each SKU they carry gets advertised, but something from= each major product category does get advertised and marketed.   G By that metric, VMS is not considered a major product category. And thesK longer HP doesn't advertise and market it, the greater the *certainty* thatoB VMS will slide into oblivion....$4B pre-merger, $2B for the latestK estimates, by this time next year perhaps $1B, by 2004 maybe $500MM, by thevE time a suitable Itanic is ready for VMS perhaps they declare VMS EOL.     F > Perhaps the Linux guy was trying to break the "wintel only" image byG > mentioning that HP has a multitude of operating systems. Whether thisiL > represents corporate policy, or whether he is just a rogue employee trying toL > give HP better credibility outside the wintel world, I don't know. Perhaps a J > way to check is to wait a month or two and see if that employee is still on > the HP payroll ...  L Any company that has multiple o/s in their sales portfolio simply has to letH each of them compete no-holds barred. That's the only way the market canK pick a winner. VMS has been struggling ith one, or both hands and legs tiedrJ behind its back for well over a decade. No wonder it is where it is today.     >$F > Mr Todd, do you admit that since May 7th, there seems to have been aK > downgrading of the wintel-only focus and that HP *seems* to be taking VMSs more
 > seriously ?4  J Right now HP is spending Intel's money on the port and they are proceedingK on the path of 'if we don't at least push out the machine that we have beeneI talking about for 2-3 years we lose our last remaining credibility' mode.fL Beyond that, without any substantial marketing effort beginning NOW, it willK be more cost and profit effective for HP to simply retire VMS.  They'll sayEJ 'Look, PH-UX now has the same (sic.) cluster capabilities as Tru-64, whichK was begat from VMS, and clustering was the biggest perceived advantage thatuL VMS had - that's what our *selected* major corporate accounts told us. PH-UXJ has a bigger market share than VMS could ever hope to have. We know what's! best for you. Move to PH-UX now.'o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:39:55 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 2 Subject: Re: HP's multi-O/S strategy has broadenedJ Message-ID: <LiRv9.134126$%h2.114817@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messages) news:urv0sfb5rbm5ca@corp.supernews.com...h >iK > Bill, did you read the complete article? Earlier in the article it statesnL > that Martin Fink has recently changed jobs, and is now "the Vice-President andrH > CTO within HP's Business Critical Systems (BCS) global business unit." ThisI > makes him directly responsible for the future of OpenVMS and NSK, alongd with* > HP-UX, Linux, and a lot of other things. >r  G ;-) One could also read that to be that Mr. Fink is simply in charge ofMJ deciding which technology the BCS unit uses for their internal needs...youJ know...which version of Word to standardize on, what can be loaded on each* PC on a secretary's desktop, and so on....  / Seems that's what most CTO's do these days. ;-)S   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 11:40:46 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).% Subject: Re: Immutable laws of the PC 3 Message-ID: <QBKxcEmqhc6I@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3DBFFC71.8090901@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:* > I know its bad form to followup ones own# > posts but the lack of a supportedl0 > release of Oracle for HP-UX/IA64 puts the seal/ > on any discussions about the validity of HP's / > claims to have sucessfully migrated customerss > from HP-UX/PA to HP-UX/IA64. >   E    Yeah, right.  We all know there isn't a customer on the planet whoM3    can use a computer without loading Oracle on it.-  "    Get just a little bit real, OK?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:29:03 +0100   From: Jiri Kulhan <lars@post.cz>9 Subject: Re: installing the Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Javac2 Message-ID: <CFN375594785171181@news.felk.cvut.cz>   Hmm...  H I've got Viewer running with 1.1.8-5 with no problem. Just followed the @ install guide on openvms.compaq.com. But yes, it's slow as hell.  
 Regards, Jiria  B On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:50:06 +0200 Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:  I > Don't try to use it. It will not work with any Java version newer then uF > 1.1.8 (even if Adobe claims that it will). Use XPDF, that will work. >  > DTL wrote: > 5 >> I copied the "Adobe Acrobat Viewer for Java" from u8 >> http://www.adobe.com/products/acrviewer/acrvdnld.html >> and installed it. >> >> Did not find the howto. >>
 >> So, I did:  >> >> DTL02> java LAUNIXGC.SH >>
 >> amd I got:t >>. >> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: launixgc/sh >> >> Can anyone help, please?t >>
 >> Thanks, >> >> D.i >> >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 06:01:56 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org) Subject: Re: Lib$spawn and $PIPE question@3 Message-ID: <k1anx6kwGZDX@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  l In article <4b6ec350.0210291059.25d34c22@posting.google.com>, JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) writes:l > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<qIuv9.3803$et4.540723@news20.bellglobal.com>... > ...BP >> $ pipe yada==f$file_attributes("47490.dbm","eof") ; define/sys yadalog 'yada' >> $[ >> no errors were displayed after the previous DCL command and the logical name was createde >  > > > Just running slightly different pipe commands on OpenVMS 7.3 > directly from DCL I get: > F > $pipe yada==f$file_attributes("47490.dbm","eof") ; define/system/log > yadalog "''yada'"-* > %SYSTEM-F-IVLOGNAM, invalid logical name  E Because the "''yada'" is substituted at PIPE execution time resultinga> in the token "".  Then at DEFINE/SYSTEM execution time you getC an attempt to define a logical name with a null equivalence string.   G > C$pipe yada==f$file_attributes("47490.dbm","eof") ; define/system/log  > yadalog "''yada'" A > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of YADALOG has been superseded7  E Now when you do this a second time the YADA symbol is already defined-= and at PIPE execution time the substitution yields "1" and at > DEFINE/SYSTEM execution time you get the logical name created.  A If you think about it, this makes sense.  Apostrophe substitutionr@ occurs very early in command line processing.  It happens beforeB the command is even parsed to determine that it is a PIPE command.; By the time the command has been parsed into its individualtC PIPE sub-commands, all the apostrophes have already been processed.l    F At some point early in the design process, I suppose that the decisionF could have been made to do some careful coding so that most apostropheC substitution in PIPE subcommands would be deferred until subcommandnC execution time.  But at this point, the decision has been carved inaF stone.  People have written code that depends on the current behavior.  A As indicated in at least two prior responses, the simplest way to>> deal with this behavior is to use ampersand ("&") substitutionA instead, since that sort of substitution occurs much later in thea command processing sequence.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:35:20 GMT ( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>/ Subject: Re: Looking for contract opportunitiesS+ Message-ID: <3DC02681.A136D80C@pacbell.net>-   Welcome to the club.  	 TR wrote:  > \ > Forgive me if this post is inappropriate in this newsgroup...I am just trying everything I > can think of.T > ] > I'll be blunt about this. I have 19 years of experience with VMS/OpenVMS, yet opportunitiesa_ > for contract work are fading fast. I am looking for any leads that may lead to contract work, 4 > preferably programming. Duration is not important. > Y > I am looking for VMS opportunities in Canada. Actually, I'm just looking for one....not [ > greedy here :) I am not opposed to a finder's fee, if that's what it takes. Telecommutingi\ > opportunities, in the US, Canada, or anywhere else in the world, will also be appreciated.: > Unfortunately, extensive travel is not an option for me. > ^ > If you have any info, a lead, or might be interested in my services, then please email me at  > if-or@cogeco.ca for my resume.     -- c   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)a
 San Franciscoh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:26:28 -0500u5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>s< Subject: Not sure if anyone else I seen this from LinuxWorld* Message-ID: <apommb$a8l$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  ) Thanks to Keith Parris for sending to me.t  I A quote from Martin Fink, head of HP's Linux organization, in LinuxWorld:g      E "Post-merger HP is 'very adept at managing multiple environments.' HehE cited VMS support in addition to HP-UX, and Tandem in addition to the B others. Making the point that it's not just a Windows versus Linux world for HP these days."i  ; http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/1014.hp-p2.htmli   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:23:05 GMTg# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>q@ Subject: Re: Not sure if anyone else I seen this from LinuxWorldI Message-ID: <ZzUv9.119527$Q3S.90731@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>E  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A16390.D84B4F4A@SendSpamHere.ORG...K > In article <UBTv9.134561$%h2.18163@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,:% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:r > >bC > >"Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in messageB' > >news:apommb$a8l$1@web1.cup.hp.com...n. > >> Thanks to Keith Parris for sending to me. > >>B > >> A quote from Martin Fink, head of HP's Linux organization, in LinuxWorld:  > >> > >> > >>J > >> "Post-merger HP is 'very adept at managing multiple environments.' HeJ > >> cited VMS support in addition to HP-UX, and Tandem in addition to theG > >> others. Making the point that it's not just a Windows versus Linuxt > >> world for HP these days." > >>@ > >> http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/1014.hp-p2.html > >m > >  > >o# > >HP owns/developed MPE and PH-UX.o > >It now owns VMS, NSK, Tru64.f > >It sells Windows and Linux. > >oJ > >It never was simply a Windows vs. Linux world at HP, (well it shouldn't be). > >hI > >For Fink to have to make a comment like the one he made just shows howe badly L > >HP gets the message out that they have operating systems for all kinds of! > >applications and environments.o > > H > >Ford makes all kinds of vehicles, and they advertise and market every lastI > >one of them to their intended target audiences. And they all manage tou sell.MF > >Maybe HP ought to hire the marketing types from GM, Ford, Proctor & Gamble, D > >Unilever, and a myriad of other companies that know how to market	 products.N >tK > ... as a Mustang enthusiast, I must say that I can't recall the last timeu IkI > saw a Ford ad for their Mustang (save for the video tape of old Mustandt adsl: > that I take out every now and again to remember when...)    G They use a multitude of marketing channels....magazines, car shows, TV, G radio, internet banner ads, displays at car races, displays in shoppingiJ malls, billboards.  They even go so far as to give journalists the cars toL drive of days, weeks, or even months at a time, and then get reviews writtenI in the newspapers and magazines. They do the J.D. Power thing and trumpetB the results.    J These days with VMS, HP would have to include several month's training forF the trade journalists because none of them know the difference between" fork() and spawn, or help and man.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:25:01 GMT1# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e@ Subject: Re: Not sure if anyone else I seen this from LinuxWorldJ Message-ID: <NBUv9.107356$mxk1.29670@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message8( news:3DC00A73.8A74BC00@mindspring.com... > John Smith wrote:i >oI > > Ford makes all kinds of vehicles, and they advertise and market everyt lastJ > > one of them to their intended target audiences. And they all manage to sell.FG > > Maybe HP ought to hire the marketing types from GM, Ford, Proctor &h Gamble, E > > Unilever, and a myriad of other companies that know how to marketo	 products.t >t4 > Do you suppose RJR/Nabisco has any more executives3 > to spare? I understand that the last "Cookie Guy"n0 > that went into computers did okay for himself.    / He's open for offers as of the end of the year.mL http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cmp/20021030/tc_cmp/iwk200210 29s0007o   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 11:36:34 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)1@ Subject: Re: Not sure if anyone else I seen this from LinuxWorld3 Message-ID: <GR79YDHr8Xww@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  U In article <00A16390.D84B4F4A@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: q > In article <UBTv9.134561$%h2.18163@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:r  L >>Ford makes all kinds of vehicles, and they advertise and market every lastN >>one of them to their intended target audiences. And they all manage to sell.M >>Maybe HP ought to hire the marketing types from GM, Ford, Proctor & Gamble,6M >>Unilever, and a myriad of other companies that know how to market products.q > M > ... as a Mustang enthusiast, I must say that I can't recall the last time IiN > saw a Ford ad for their Mustang (save for the video tape of old Mustand ads : > that I take out every now and again to remember when...)  C    Nor have I seen an add for the Model T's they just built for theoG    100th aniversary.  Of course they can't sell them so that's at least-%    consistent with "intended target".m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 05:06:38 GMT-- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>m% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWINGc: Message-ID: <yNJv9.1469$6g.209994@news1.news.adelphia.net>   grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu wrote: E > Just for the heck of it, I updated the copy of the cSWING sources I & > found so it compiles without errors.  4 What settings did you use for the Compaq C Compiler?  " > I think I got past the few casesF > of routines with inconsistent numbers of arguments, several cases ofJ > referencing non-existent structure members, and a library function whichH > doesn't exist in the C headers (lib$erase_page). I also cleaned up allJ > the IOSBs, corrected some longs which should have been shorts (channels,G > and lengths) and a few improperly initialized descriptors, but, thereeF > were a few  coding errors I don't have time to pursue, including twoH > global routines named "rest_cursor" and an attempt to assign a pointer > to an integer.  " I have slowly been doing the same.  F > However, I don't have the time or ambition to do the kind of rewrite3 > which is indicated by Craig Berry's observation. - > A > If anyone would like to either take on that job starting with alF > compilable copy of the source, or just try the compilable version toG > see whether it works any better than the old executable, you can mail.@ > be and I'll ship you the zip with the original and my changes.  F There seem to be enough latent bugs in the code that it probably will A take a long time and multiple eyes to shake out all but the most l apparent ones.  G Can someone who has a working version let me know if the help function 0H works correctly?  It appears to be using the length of an array of char D as the address to return the amount of characters entered in to the H prompt.  The program it self does not seem to use the data, and since I H do not have a link map of the original, I have no idea what memory cell  is being corrupted.v  F There are also two arrays that look like they are supposed to be NULL F terminated, but instead are apparently being initialized to the ascii  characters '/' '0'.A  @ There is also a case where "==" is apparently being used for an  assignment of a return value.f  I At the rate I am going over my lunch time, It will probably take a while  & before I get all the modules compiled.   -Johnr wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyi   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Oct 02 06:41:51 EST From: grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu% Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 and CSWINGs- Message-ID: <1XaL0Xvqaj6H@rigel.cc.wmich.edu>n  j In article <yNJv9.1469$6g.209994@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:! > grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu wrote:rF >> Just for the heck of it, I updated the copy of the cSWING sources I' >> found so it compiles without errors.A > 6 > What settings did you use for the Compaq C Compiler?   /OPT/NODEBUG   Otherwise, defaults.   > # >> I think I got past the few casesgG >> of routines with inconsistent numbers of arguments, several cases of K >> referencing non-existent structure members, and a library function which I >> doesn't exist in the C headers (lib$erase_page). I also cleaned up alloK >> the IOSBs, corrected some longs which should have been shorts (channels,(H >> and lengths) and a few improperly initialized descriptors, but, thereG >> were a few  coding errors I don't have time to pursue, including two.I >> global routines named "rest_cursor" and an attempt to assign a pointer1 >> to an integer.5 > $ > I have slowly been doing the same. > G >> However, I don't have the time or ambition to do the kind of rewrite 4 >> which is indicated by Craig Berry's observation.  >> aB >> If anyone would like to either take on that job starting with aG >> compilable copy of the source, or just try the compilable version to)H >> see whether it works any better than the old executable, you can mailA >> be and I'll ship you the zip with the original and my changes.- > H > There seem to be enough latent bugs in the code that it probably will C > take a long time and multiple eyes to shake out all but the most - > apparent ones. > I > Can someone who has a working version let me know if the help function .J > works correctly?  It appears to be using the length of an array of char F > as the address to return the amount of characters entered in to the J > prompt.  The program it self does not seem to use the data, and since I J > do not have a link map of the original, I have no idea what memory cell  > is being corrupted.y > H > There are also two arrays that look like they are supposed to be NULL H > terminated, but instead are apparently being initialized to the ascii  > characters '/' '0'.0 > B > There is also a case where "==" is apparently being used for an  > assignment of a return value.r > K > At the rate I am going over my lunch time, It will probably take a while D( > before I get all the modules compiled. >  > -Johnn > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Onlyh >    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:21:13 +0000 (UTC)B+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)n Subject: Re: Palladium article+ Message-ID: <apofb9$c30$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>-  W In article <01C27F4F.1204E5D0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:LC >I know Palladium has come up in the group a couple of times, but IaI >thought you might find this article interesting. It explains the problem 9 >well, in a way even a pointy haired manager can get it. d >mA >http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/wo_weinberger102502.asp  >hH >It explains a good reason for us to be concerned too: How Microsoft can< >use Palladium to help stamp out those pesky competing OS's. >l >Shane  F I'm still confused by what Palladium actually gives anyone in terms of increased security.tH OK you have this security chip and you have an OS which can't have been 4 patched to have an unsupported backdoor. Then what ?B If the OS is still as full of holes as we have come to expect from- Microsoft what does this actually accomplish.oN Presumably user's will still be able to write documents in Word and will still be able to include Macros ?3F Will user's no longer be able to compile their own programs on WindowsH platforms ?  Will those programs no longer be able to call OS routines ?  G Does every piece of code, every word document you create need a digital L certificate to work ? If so who has charge of signing all the certificates ?G Who determines that this code was created on a bad guys machine and nottG on a good guys machine. Signed code for Active-X hasn't exactly been a  K perfect security solution - if every word document needs signing you have asK real problem. If on the other hand the only signing is done by the embedded1O chip in the PC then how do you know whose PC it was created on. The fact that a O PC was first purchased by one person means nothing - it could have been sold on< , stolen etcO Or is the next thing that we have to have a PC registration license and we have L to inform a central authority on pain of severe legal penalties everytime we sell or have our PC stolen ?  F I'm obviously missing something. Can someone please explain what real # security Palladium really provides.n    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:04:09 -0800s$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: Palladium article0 Message-ID: <01C27FFB.BCF42170@sulfer.icius.com>  F Hardly anyone knows about it, and of those hardly anyone knows what itH really is. It's being sold and marketed as a defence against viruses andH a way to keep your privacy intact. It's only the technical people who're seeing the other side.   Shane    -----Original Message-----6 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]' Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 7:20 PMs To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: Palladium article     Shane Smith wrote: > D > I know Palladium has come up in the group a couple of times, but IJ > thought you might find this article interesting. It explains the problem9 > well, in a way even a pointy haired manager can get it." > B > http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/wo_weinberger102502.asp > I > It explains a good reason for us to be concerned too: How Microsoft cani= > use Palladium to help stamp out those pesky competing OS's.p  ( ..or doom itself to be replaced by them.   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:13:02 -0800T$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: Palladium article0 Message-ID: <01C27FFD.1885F1C0@sulfer.icius.com>  E From what I can make out, every piece of software has to be digitally E signed, or (and this is the part I'm not sure about) either the layertG underneath won't run it, or the environment becomes "untrustworthy" and.G all the palladium-compatible stuff stops working. You see, if there's a2H piece of software running that can't be trusted, you won't be allowed toE play that DVD in case the program in question might help you copy it.:  H Of course, MS would be issuing the digital signatures if they can get itC past the government. Basically, the word "monopoly" doesn't seem to  cover that scenario adequately.e   Shane    -----Original Message-----@ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk [mailto:david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk]) Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:21 AM. To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. Subject: Re: Palladium article    < In article <01C27F4F.1204E5D0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:C >I know Palladium has come up in the group a couple of times, but IeI >thought you might find this article interesting. It explains the problem 9 >well, in a way even a pointy haired manager can get it. m >eA >http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/wo_weinberger102502.aspb >dH >It explains a good reason for us to be concerned too: How Microsoft can< >use Palladium to help stamp out those pesky competing OS's. >c >Shane  F I'm still confused by what Palladium actually gives anyone in terms of increased security. H OK you have this security chip and you have an OS which can't have been 4 patched to have an unsupported backdoor. Then what ?B If the OS is still as full of holes as we have come to expect from- Microsoft what does this actually accomplish.iH Presumably user's will still be able to write documents in Word and will stillv be able to include Macros ?sF Will user's no longer be able to compile their own programs on WindowsH platforms ?  Will those programs no longer be able to call OS routines ?  G Does every piece of code, every word document you create need a digitala= certificate to work ? If so who has charge of signing all thec certificates ?G Who determines that this code was created on a bad guys machine and nottG on a good guys machine. Signed code for Active-X hasn't exactly been a hD perfect security solution - if every word document needs signing you have aB real problem. If on the other hand the only signing is done by the embeddedH chip in the PC then how do you know whose PC it was created on. The fact that aG PC was first purchased by one person means nothing - it could have beene sold ona , stolen etcG Or is the next thing that we have to have a PC registration license andh we havew? to inform a central authority on pain of severe legal penaltiess everytime we sell or have our PC stolen ?  F I'm obviously missing something. Can someone please explain what real # security Palladium really provides.s    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:38:45 +0000b% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>y7 Subject: Re: pathworks 6.1 installed  want to try SAMBAh8 Message-ID: <rvgvru0ec176sfmtphebdpvteclv68b11e@4ax.com>  B On 29 OCT 2002 16:30:17 GMT, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) wrote:   F >In a previous article, merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt) wrote: >:G >->Hi I have a ovms axp machine with PW 6.1 installed my boss wanted topG >->give samba a try (we need to upgrade our pwlmxxx7.02 lics top 7.03).  >sD >Too bad - you'll then miss out on the major performance enhancementG >we've all been waiting for in AS 7.3a known as "opportunistic locking" % >that should be shipping any day now.y  = Advanced server 7.3A  arrived on my desk yesterday via GalwaysD (Ireland). Curiously the box says "Sched Ship Date: 01-Nov-02" so it  appears to be ahead of schedule.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 06:05:56 -0800% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) . Subject: Re: Pathworks v6 (AS) & Win2000 (SBS)= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0210300605.2ebad343@posting.google.com>l  A Thank you for the reply. I'll try to find a 7.3 kit a give that auE go. I think the SAM *is* getting hosed because the Alpha periodically C "disappears" from the network and requires a pathworks restart. If  A the Pw7.03 licenses ever show up I'll probably try to go to Pw6.1 D *However* the docs say that it is supported on VMS 6.2, 7.2,... but C does not mention 7.1-2 so I can only presume that 6.1 will install  A and run on that version at least until I can get there over some s1 weekend to upgrade VMS and all the other goodies.   > Windows 2000 Small Business Server is Windows 2000 server that> has a lower cost, is limited to 50 client computers, a single A domain and it looks like it doesn't really get along with anotherpA DC in its domain though it let us add one. It shouldn't have beene@ installed at this site but that's the way things work, isn't it?  C If you really want to know more about it, waste a few minutes here:p  .  http://www.microsoft.com/sbserver/default.asp   Thanks again for the help.  
   DL Phillips     l "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message news:<urudjrj771746e@corp.supernews.com>...C > "Carl Karcher" <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in messagep. > news:29OCT02.20373901@thuria.waisman.wisc...A > > In a previous article, whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) wrote:  > > ->OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 >  > <snip> > >l= > > See: <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks/pwnew.html>t > >tM > > PW V6.1 will run on VMS 6.2 and later but does require the PWLMXXXCA07.03eG > > licenses. PW 6.1 is the only version that supports W2K and XP (as ai > > "member" server).  > N > Well, actually, V6.1 will support BDC too, if you run in mixed mode.  It can > be a PDC too, ifC > we are just talking Win2K clients (which we are not in this case)1 > 3 > >PW V6.0D (which is the same as V6.0C with ECO-2) A > > is the last version to use the older PWLMXXXCA07.02 licenses.B > >. > I > Correct.  And, it even worked with Win2K, but, you may have needed somenN > patches (how quickly these things fade from my memory).  My suggestion is toM > get a hold of the CSC and explain that you are looking for a quick stop gap3N > and see if they can set you up with V6.0D plus the patches.  Actually, V6.0DN > vanilla, off the LP distributions might do the trick, if you can scrunge oneK > up.  Check for the OpenVMS V7.3 distribution too, PATHWORKS V6.0D shippedh > there as well. > C > > ->The remote site has V7.2-1 and some older kits. I've searchedp@ > > ->the ones I have, but I don't have v7.1 thru v7.2-1 here. IC > > ->could easily have missed something as I don't have all of the A > > ->paper, just the CDs. It also looks like the Pathworks ECO'sa( > > ->are still not available on-line??? > >p > L > The ECOs in the time frame you are looking for on not available.  AdvancedL > Server v7.3-ECO2 should be available soon, on line (its available now from > the CSC).d > F > If you are seeing lots of replication, chances are your SAM is hosedK > already.  But that's OK, you are a BDC, so, just rejoin the domain.  When:K > checking replication, be sure to check the event logs on both the BDC anddN > the PDC.  Just because one event log says some replication happened, doens'tL > mean it really did, unless you see a corresponding entry in the other log. > K > So, what is this Small Business Server thing that doesn't support trusts?r >  > Brad McCusker  > OpenVMS Engineering  > Advanced Server Engineeringr > Littleton MA > Nashua NHe > USAg   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 09:31:35 -0800% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips)e. Subject: Re: Pathworks v6 (AS) & Win2000 (SBS)= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0210300931.6f842b02@posting.google.com>w  E Followup: The Alpha is not account_synching with the 2000 server. It tE looks like the Win2K SBS won't allow another server to synch with it aC just as it doesn't allow trust with another domain. I think maybe InD need to leave the domain, and manually admin add user/computer=alphaC for each, rejoin and see what happens. The W2K workstations let me TA map a drive under username other than the logged in user, so onceoD the drive is mapped everything seems to be okay. The Win98's I can'tC figure out other than to try the manual add user thing. I now thinkrD getting to Pw6.1 then AS 7.(latest) where I can just be a member of : the domain will be my only hope of making this thing work.  
   DL Phillipss  8 ********************************************************)  I wonder what I did with all of my time  (  before there was a MicroSoft? Oh, yeah,-  I did productive things! (it's been so long)-8 ********************************************************  l "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message news:<urudjrj771746e@corp.supernews.com>...C > "Carl Karcher" <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in messagee. > news:29OCT02.20373901@thuria.waisman.wisc...A > > In a previous article, whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) wrote:  > > ->OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 >  > <snip> > >h= > > See: <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks/pwnew.html>  > >hM > > PW V6.1 will run on VMS 6.2 and later but does require the PWLMXXXCA07.03nG > > licenses. PW 6.1 is the only version that supports W2K and XP (as a  > > "member" server).o > N > Well, actually, V6.1 will support BDC too, if you run in mixed mode.  It can > be a PDC too, ifC > we are just talking Win2K clients (which we are not in this case)  > 3 > >PW V6.0D (which is the same as V6.0C with ECO-2)uA > > is the last version to use the older PWLMXXXCA07.02 licenses.  > >t > I > Correct.  And, it even worked with Win2K, but, you may have needed somemN > patches (how quickly these things fade from my memory).  My suggestion is toM > get a hold of the CSC and explain that you are looking for a quick stop gapoN > and see if they can set you up with V6.0D plus the patches.  Actually, V6.0DN > vanilla, off the LP distributions might do the trick, if you can scrunge oneK > up.  Check for the OpenVMS V7.3 distribution too, PATHWORKS V6.0D shippedi > there as well. > C > > ->The remote site has V7.2-1 and some older kits. I've searchedy@ > > ->the ones I have, but I don't have v7.1 thru v7.2-1 here. IC > > ->could easily have missed something as I don't have all of thehA > > ->paper, just the CDs. It also looks like the Pathworks ECO'so( > > ->are still not available on-line??? > >m > L > The ECOs in the time frame you are looking for on not available.  AdvancedL > Server v7.3-ECO2 should be available soon, on line (its available now from > the CSC).a > F > If you are seeing lots of replication, chances are your SAM is hosedK > already.  But that's OK, you are a BDC, so, just rejoin the domain.  WhenrK > checking replication, be sure to check the event logs on both the BDC andtN > the PDC.  Just because one event log says some replication happened, doens'tL > mean it really did, unless you see a corresponding entry in the other log. > K > So, what is this Small Business Server thing that doesn't support trusts?h >  > Brad McCuskern > OpenVMS Engineeringe > Advanced Server Engineering* > Littleton MA > Nashua NHe > USAi   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:05:41 GMTr$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU* Subject: Re: perl, perlrte and WASD Server8 Message-ID: <00A1630F.051B4C6B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  H In article <3dbf40c3.25263216@news>, rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz writes: >Hi All, >nE >Trying to get Perl going on a VAX VMS System with a WASD Web Server.r >This is WASD 8.0 under VMS 7.3X >w$ >Perl is installed and works (5.8.0)< >From DCL a command like "perl test.pl" works as I'd expect. >b* >Now trying to get this working from WASD. >tG >There seems to be a number of options so I may have confused myself...g >     whats new! >V0 >I have the following entries in the conf files. >y >http$map.conf   httpD$map.conf, right? -  @ >exec+ /plrte/* (ht_root:[script]perlrte.exe)/ht_root/src/perl/* >t	 >http$mapo! >.pl $ht_root:[script]PERLRTE.EXE/ >also trieds" >.pl (ht_root:[script]PERLRTE.EXE)  O I'm not remotely sure you need those (and having a little trouble, based on my .M 7.2 knowledge only, in figuring out what you're trying to do.  Is that under   an [AddType] directive or what??  L If that were OSU HTTP_SUFFIXES.CONF you'd be defining a presentation script,+ but (as of 7.2) that's not how WASD worked.      >H. >I've copied the perlrte.exe to this location. > ; >Whenever I try and call the page http://node/plrte/test.pl % > all I get back from the browser is:UC >ERROR 502  -  External agent did not respond (or not acceptably). h >tF >Anyone already set this up and have the correct entries to add to the >configuration files?i2 >Anything else you need to do to get this to work? >Any tips grarefully received!  N Sorry for asking about stuff you've probably already done, but since you don't
 say so ...  N 1) Just for laughs, try running PERLRTE.EXE from the command line.  Do you getI a complaint from the image activator?  If so, that could be informative. e  M 2) Are the PERL logicals (PERLSHR, etc) defined systemwide or in a particularcK login.com, or part of sylogin.com which might not run for a non-interactivee process?  N 3) Did you install a pre-built WASD or compile and link from scratch?  Are you7 sure that the version of PERLSHR and the PERLRTE agree?u  K 4) (As I'm sure you know) the PERLRTE is one of the WASD-special persistentmM run-time environments,  which avoids the overhead of reloading PERL each timeiI you run a Perl script.  Have you tried just running your Perl script as arE normal CGI?  If that works, the problem is somewhat more localized.  -  L 5) Are you sure you want that mapping in the HTTP$MAP file?  (I presume it's under   L Since I haven't played at all with WASD 8.0 this advice is worth what you're paying for it.  ! Let me know if this was any help.t   -- Alann   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:09:43 -0600v7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com>r* Subject: Re: perl, perlrte and WASD ServerG Message-ID: <craigberry-7ECF3A.22094329102002@news.directvinternet.com>i  G In article <3dbf40c3.25263216@news>, rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote:l  1 > I have the following entries in the conf files.> >  > http$map.confAA > exec+ /plrte/* (ht_root:[script]perlrte.exe)/ht_root/src/perl/*r  C I would have expected whitespace to be necessary after the ")" but t that's just a guess.   > Any tips grarefully received!>  0 Get Alan Winston's new book and read pp. 346-47.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:42:34 +1030D/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> * Subject: Re: perl, perlrte and WASD Server, Message-ID: <3DBF6A42.90407@wasd.vsm.com.au>  " rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote:  	 > Hi All,n >eF > Trying to get Perl going on a VAX VMS System with a WASD Web Server.  > This is WASD 8.0 under VMS 7.3  , I hope that's 8.0.1 (i.e. mandatory update).   >p% > Perl is installed and works (5.8.0)3= > From DCL a command like "perl test.pl" works as I'd expect.a   Something like?(      |Content-Type: text/plain    |    |Hello World!   (without the vertical bars)   + > Now trying to get this working from WASD.a >rH > There seems to be a number of options so I may have confused myself... >      whats new!o >C1 > I have the following entries in the conf files.0 >m > http$map.conf/  	 httpd$map       ^  A > exec+ /plrte/* (ht_root:[script]perlrte.exe)/ht_root/src/perl/*  >y
 > http$map" > .pl $ht_root:[script]PERLRTE.EXE > also tried" > .pl (ht_root:[script]PERLRTE.EXE  - These mappings are not correct.  Remove them.c   >m/ > I've copied the perlrte.exe to this location.d  : It sounds like you have retrieved the PERLWASD110.ZIP kit.  K This is not strictly required to Perl script with WASD.  It does provide a p1 low latency, persistent Perl environment however.Y  L The [SRC.PERL]BUILD_PERLRTE.COM procedure should have placed the executable 1 in [AXP] and from there you copy it to [AXP-BIN].t    This would make the mapping rule  >    exec+ /plrte/* (cgi-bin:[000000]perlrte)/ht_root/src/perl/*   >r< > Whenever I try and call the page http://node/plrte/test.pl& >  all I get back from the browser is:D > ERROR 502  -  External agent did not respond (or not acceptably).   K This can be the response if the scripting (server) account cannot activate dM the RTE or the RTE cannot read the Perl script file due to protection issues.   J It can also be generated if the script does not generate a legitimate CGI E response header (similar in structure to the above example response).o  G > Anyone already set this up and have the correct entries to add to thee > configuration files?3 > Anything else you need to do to get this to work?t > Any tips grarefully received!i  K You can also step back a bit and try your script out with the more vanilla  7 approach to Perl scripting (not persistent I'm afraid).r      #HTTPD$CONFIG    [DclScriptRuntime]J    .PL PERL J    # or if it's not directly available at the command line or via DCL$PATH    .PL $PERL_ROOT:[000000]PERL  ) Restart the server ... $ HTTPD/DO=RESTARTt  0 Then if you place your .PLs in [CGI-BIN] you can  )    http://the.host.name/cgi-bin/script.pl   1 This is also good advice profered by Craig Berry:w  J  > In article <3dbf40c3.25263216@news>, rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote:!  > >Any tips grarefully received!r  >  >3  > Get Alan Winston's new book and read pp. 346-47.r   Regards, Mark.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:14:26 GMTy( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>! Subject: Re: Rejuvenating OpenVMSi+ Message-ID: <3DC0219B.E64261ED@pacbell.net>r  L I get hundreds of SPAMs a day. Getting one that had VMS in the subject was a treat!   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > C > Probably need an education program for companies trying to market  > VMS Software too.t > A > I received SPAM from Mom Software Services.  I sent them a copynA > of The Boulder Pledge.  They responded by SPAMing me yet again.eB > VMS doesn't have enough available software that it can afford to > have any of them blacklisted.a >  > billD > PS.  I would expect everyone on c.o.v is going to get at least one  > copy of this SPAM if not more. >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>     -- r   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)m
 San Franciscom   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:25:55 -0000t* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> Subject: RE: RMS File Locks.M Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E9EB@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>4  E Time to hang my head in shame and admit that I didn't rebuild through1< ignorance & now I have done so blocking is now working fine.  ! Thank you everyone for your help.s   RegardsW  	 Andrew R.-   -----Original Message-----5 From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de [mailto:huber@mppmu.mpg.de] p Sent: 29 October 2002 12:01  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComS Subject: Re: RMS File Locks.    
 In articleI <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E9E9@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>, Andrewm% Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> writes:u > Please could Some one Help?o > H > We have just upgraded to 7.3-1 from 7.2-1, everything appears OK, but 1 > we used to use a program called 'blocking'(from G > http://www.process.com/openvms/) which would tell us who was locking >- > an RMS record in a specified database file.m  > Not using it myself, just a quick look in the build procedure  lets me ask:  A Are You aware of the fact, that blocking is linked /SYSEXE , and '& to alpha$loadable_images:rmsdef.stb  ?   Did You rebuild ?a   --: Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Max-Planck-Institut Physik,Muenchen, : http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber                            ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 05:15:04 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)v) Subject: Re: So I went to the HP IT forume= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0210300515.669de3ce@posting.google.com>   e bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<apjls4$25lb2$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...f? > In article <55f85d77.0210280518.51740476@posting.google.com>,d. > 	P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:G > > In this case, I think it is a bit rude of your management to decide < > > this, if you are doing this, you should be given some $. > K > I think you missed the point.  Why would they give me money for somethingiI > they don't want.  I feel it is important enough that I am willing to goI  E No, I think you missed my point. Don't let anyone under estimate whatiG you add to the courses. If it comes down to something you feel stronglyuH about - let management know. "they?" "they" in a UNI *ARE* the students, and pay the fees..  / What you are saying sounds a bit strange to me.a   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Oct 2002 15:21:49 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)) Subject: Re: So I went to the HP IT forume5 Message-ID: <apoteb$3j3qm$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>e  = In article <55f85d77.0210300515.669de3ce@posting.google.com>,e, 	P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:g > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<apjls4$25lb2$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...i@ >> In article <55f85d77.0210280518.51740476@posting.google.com>,/ >> 	P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes::H >> > In this case, I think it is a bit rude of your management to decide= >> > this, if you are doing this, you should be given some $.7 >> xL >> I think you missed the point.  Why would they give me money for somethingJ >> they don't want.  I feel it is important enough that I am willing to go > G > No, I think you missed my point. Don't let anyone under estimate whata > you add to the courses.   ? I don't add anything to the courses.  I'm the guy who keeps thea< computers and networks running.  I'm not faculty and I'm not@ administration.  In the grand scheme of things, I occupy a placeA in the class with the least influence on anything here that I can  not do totally on my own.h  J >                          If it comes down to something you feel stronglyJ > about - let management know. "they?" "they" in a UNI *ARE* the students, > and pay the fees.e  A I hope you don't honestly believe that the curriculum here (or atcA any University) is established by the students??  And, even if it0D was, wouldn't that make this kind of a chicken-egg thing?? Why wouldB they fight for something they know nothing about??  I tried to getC students interested in working on a VMS OpenSource Porting Project.<A There were no takers.  If the students could mold the curriculum,r, they would be reducing it, not adding to it.   > 1 > What you are saying sounds a bit strange to me.y  C I can only relate what I see everyday.  And one thing I see is lessrD and less VMS.  Eventually, it will drop over the horizon and then it4 may well be impossible to get it back into academia.   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:21:51 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ) Subject: Re: So I went to the HP IT forum H Message-ID: <zGTv9.119074$Q3S.1529@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messager/ news:apoteb$3j3qm$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...  >,E > I can only relate what I see everyday.  And one thing I see is lesskF > and less VMS.  Eventually, it will drop over the horizon and then it6 > may well be impossible to get it back into academia.    D Judging from HP's inaction, that's exactly what they are aiming for.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 18:29:37 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>f) Subject: Re: So I went to the HP IT forumu6 Message-ID: <20021030182937.25768.qmail@gacracker.org>  9 On 30 Oct 2002, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:o   <snip>  B >I hope you don't honestly believe that the curriculum here (or atB >any University) is established by the students??  And, even if itE >was, wouldn't that make this kind of a chicken-egg thing?? Why would C >they fight for something they know nothing about??  I tried to getoD >students interested in working on a VMS OpenSource Porting Project.B >There were no takers.  If the students could mold the curriculum,- >they would be reducing it, not adding to it.t  D If you can't get the students to play with VMS and create something,K perhaps they'd be more interested in breaking things, like its security. TooI attempt that they should at least have to learn a reasonable amount abouth it.   wE Anyway, as I suspect you'd agree, the average student who takes an IThK course is looking for marketable job skills. To most of them that means theaJ things they read about, see on the web, and in job specifications. Even ifH they do see VMS listed somewhere, the frequency is such that they'll see4 obtaining skills in it as a very low priority thing.  H Then, when the aforementioned student is an IT decision-maker, they will= avoid VMS, or replace VMS, because of their perception of it.   F What needs done has been said before, by many people, but the required' action does not seem to be being taken.n     Doc. -- d6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:34:58 GMT'# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ) Subject: Re: So I went to the HP IT forumtJ Message-ID: <mDVv9.134909$%h2.119448@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  J "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message0 news:20021030182937.25768.qmail@gacracker.org...; > On 30 Oct 2002, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  >n > <snip> >iD > >I hope you don't honestly believe that the curriculum here (or atD > >any University) is established by the students??  And, even if itG > >was, wouldn't that make this kind of a chicken-egg thing?? Why would@E > >they fight for something they know nothing about??  I tried to getoF > >students interested in working on a VMS OpenSource Porting Project.D > >There were no takers.  If the students could mold the curriculum,/ > >they would be reducing it, not adding to it.t >sF > If you can't get the students to play with VMS and create something,J > perhaps they'd be more interested in breaking things, like its security. ToK > attempt that they should at least have to learn a reasonable amount aboutc > it.u >lG > Anyway, as I suspect you'd agree, the average student who takes an ITnI > course is looking for marketable job skills. To most of them that meanst the L > things they read about, see on the web, and in job specifications. Even ifJ > they do see VMS listed somewhere, the frequency is such that they'll see6 > obtaining skills in it as a very low priority thing. > J > Then, when the aforementioned student is an IT decision-maker, they will? > avoid VMS, or replace VMS, because of their perception of it.  >oH > What needs done has been said before, by many people, but the required) > action does not seem to be being taken.e    5 As Casey Stengle said, "It's deja vu all over again."l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:55:47 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g' Subject: TCPIP buglet ... (UCX$UCP.EXE)y, Message-ID: <3DC000F6.1D09592D@videotron.ca>   VAX VMS 7.2, TCPIP 5.3  Z In recent version of TCPIP services, an empty, placeholder file is created for UCX$UCP.EXE  I I do not know if VAXNOTES 2.5 is the most recent version, but that is thefF version I have. Its kitinstal.com checks for not only the existence ofM UCX$UCP.EXE, but also checkes inside the file to get the image version number 5 to ensure that the softare is at least V2.0 or above.   E Of course, with TCPIP Services, that fails since it is an empty file.a  M I am curious, shouldn't UCS$UCP.EXE be created as an alias of TCPIP$UCP.EXE ? L Or is this considered potentially too much of a potential problem later on ?  I I'll just temporarily copy the TCPIP$UCP file to the UCX name so that the M install will work and then remove it back. Not a show stopper, but still justaJ a hint of all the stuff that happens when they decide to rename a product.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Oct 2002 23:00:10 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)2) Subject: Re: Timezone-change observations2= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0210292300.5ead2287@posting.google.com>g  q hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) wrote in message news:<PMxv9.2$5a1.131197@news.cpqcorp.net>...c- > In article <apgb1t$374$1@news1.xs4all.nl>, t- > Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes:u > >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:r >  .. ; > >> 4) SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE on Alpha contains a wrong formulad > >> r, > >> 		"MET-1MET DST-2,M3.5.0/02,M10.4.0/03" > >> instead ofo, > >> 		"MET-1MET DST-2,M3.5.0/02,M10.5.0/03" > >> n > >> while on VAXr* > >> 		"MET-1MET_DST-2,M3.5.0/2,M10.5.0/3" >  ..sL > >I was surprised too. In 2002 and in 2003 it makes no difference. In 2004  > >it does.t > > G > >I did the test. I set my Alpha workstation clock to 20-oct-2004 and   > >rebooted. (It runs DTSS)  > > + > >The result is amazing. The timezone was c8 > >"MET-1MET_DST-2,M3.5.0/2,M10.5.0/3", as it should be. > >aI > >It seems that the rule as you see it, gets CALCULATED. However, to be sL > >able to calulate it, I expect that there is a RULE somewhere. I have not E > >been able to find this rule, yet. However, it seems to be correct.e > I > Time Zone Rules exist in two formats:  The "Binary" format is containedtK > in the rule files located in SYS$TZDIR.  The "Character string" format isaI > defined in SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE from the binary format when the system is l* > booted or when the time zone is changed. > N > In OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 and later the command @SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP SHOW9 > will display information about current time zone setup.s  ? This procedure displays the timezone rule as it is currently inoD effect. In other words, it displays the calculated rule. It does not@ display the rule for the rule, leaving the confusement in place.  = OK, like I said before, I did the test for 2004, and it worksg: correctly. I have to learn to trust this mechanism without$ understanding how it actually works.  	 Bart Zorns   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:00:15 GMTa( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>) Subject: Re: Timezone-change observationsC+ Message-ID: <3DC01E48.29621DA9@pacbell.net>y   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > X > In article <3DBD81BC.C10356B1@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:$ > >My Alpha didn't change correctly.6 > >I'm running VMS 7.2 w/ TCPIP 5.1. My logicals show:) > >  "SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING" = "1"0+ > >  "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" = "-25200"a  > >  "SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME" = "PDT"8 > >  "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "PST8PDT7,M4.1.0/2,M10.5.0/2" > >r, > >Still PDT. I wonder wht this didn't work? > 1 > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI ("AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV")o > " $ echo F$GETSYI("AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV")A %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling:   > Do you run DECdts ?e' No. I guess that's why it doesn't work?o   -- V   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)h
 San Francisco:   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:01:49 GMTI4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: UCX Telnet help0 Message-ID: <3DC01E71.E44E6503@blueyonder.co.uk>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > "David L. Reed" wrote: > >0 > > Greetings All, > >n1 > > We're running OpenVMS V6.2 and UCX V3.3 ECO 2rA > > We have many users using Telnet sessions for VMS applications O > > Every Telnet session generates a file UCX$TELNETSYM_TEMP_xxxx.DAT;1  (whereb# > > xxxx increments each occurance)/  D Isn't that the temp file telnetsym uses to buffer the data to print?  7 > > I get an OPCOM message for every session as followsc > >2 > > AUDIT$SERVER > >  > > Username: User > > Object Class Name: FileaB > > Object Name: _DSA0:[SYS0.UCX_LPD]UCX$TELNETSYM_TEMP_xxxx.DAT;1# > > Object Owner:[UCX$AUX, UCX_LPD]f@ > > Object Protection: SYSTEM:RWED, OWNER:RWED, GROUP:RE, WORLD: > > Access Requested: DELETEI > > STATUS: %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, Insufficient Privilege or object protection 
 > > violationa  H Your users are unable to delete the temporary files, for whatever reasonO (probably bug in UCX fixed in a later version, maybe some over-zealous sysadmins4 has changed the protections on the spool directory).     > >,P > > Over a period of time I accumulate thousands of these files which I manuallyO > > delete. How can I change the default protection on these files so they willyP > > automatically delete? Or how can I keep them from being created in the first
 > > place?O > > If there's no way to do this I guess I can set up a batch job to run once a.A > > day to delete them but I think it should be easier than that!E > > Any ideas ?? > >S > > .....David > I > Well, the first comment you're likely to get is that you should upgradetI > UCX, if at all possible. That will likely solve the problem, but I'd be E > *REAL* curious to know why TELNETSYM cares at all about interactivem > logins.../  A Agreed, upgrade TCPIP to 4.2 latest ECO or V5, may well fix this.x  1 Maybe there are print commands in the logout.com?M   >   c -- u tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk o  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 01:22:51 -0800  From: cor.mom@momss.nl (Cor Mom)A Subject: Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software).= Message-ID: <774640de.0210300122.4f37ab76@posting.google.com>m  D I am sorry to all of you if you think that we have been spamming. WeC have just selected a number of users that are regular posting here,tB because we thought the software we are developing could be of yourC interest. Please do not look to us as a spammer, because we are nota? and will not become one. We are company that is writing serious A software for the OpenVMS platform. We are sorry that we made thiso small mistake.   Regards,   Cor Mom  Mom Software Services?  b lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) wrote in message news:<apma27$154$1@newslocal.mitre.org>... > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <VRfswQgrx1TA@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 29 Oct 2002 07:31:58 -0600:lQ > >==============================================================================tL > >The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythingM > >     offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willnL > >     I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningsK > >     to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival ! > >     of the online community."tQ > >==============================================================================e > L > They sent it to me too, and I think there's a human in the loop because my3 > e-mail address is munged in my recent articles.  - > G > The irony is that if they had posted the ad in comp.os.vms instead ofnJ > mailing it to me, I would consider the ad germane to the forum and would > examine the product! > - > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgM@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 05:06:41 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nA Subject: Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software) 3 Message-ID: <owk05bPKgLRl@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  ` In article <774640de.0210300122.4f37ab76@posting.google.com>, cor.mom@momss.nl (Cor Mom) writes:F > I am sorry to all of you if you think that we have been spamming. WeE > have just selected a number of users that are regular posting here,.D > because we thought the software we are developing could be of yourE > interest. Please do not look to us as a spammer, because we are not   B But that is the _definition_ of a spammer; someone sending bulk orB commercial email that is unsolicited.  The fact that someone postsE in comp.os.vms does _not_ mean they are asking for bulk or commerciall$ email, from you or from anyone else.  A > and will not become one. We are company that is writing seriousoC > software for the OpenVMS platform. We are sorry that we made thisa > small mistake.  H If it doesn't happen again, I imagine a lot of people will be forgiving.  N ==============================================================================I The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythinguJ      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willI      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings H      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival      of the online community."N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 08:30:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)uA Subject: Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)v3 Message-ID: <HDTLP8Qvir$A@eisner.encompasserve.org>P  W In article <3DBFEACD.5030100@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:j >> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <VRfswQgrx1TA@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 29 Oct 2002 07:31:58 -0600: >> wQ >>>==============================================================================pL >>>The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythingL >>>    offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willK >>>    I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningsaJ >>>    to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival  >>>    of the online community."Q >>>==============================================================================   P > Still, if there is a message about something that I could really find useful, A > and benefit from, then the above pledge doesn't make any sense.e > Q > Just for discussion, say that you receive a spam e-mail offering you a product sR > that would make you immortal and eternally young, and that it's a real product, R > not some snake juice.  Just how far would your principles go in staying true to  > the above pledge?e > 5 > Ok, an extreme case, but still makes a valid point.a  H I have not been put to the test, but most of the realistic possibilitiesE or otherwise desireable products is something I would choose to buildp> rather than buy in that situations.  Exceptions might include:   	VMS 	Honda
 	Macintosh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:21:01 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>A Subject: Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)k, Message-ID: <3DBFEACD.5030100@tsoft-inc.com>   > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <VRfswQgrx1TA@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 29 Oct 2002 07:31:58 -0600:a > P >>==============================================================================K >>The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything,K >>    offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willeJ >>    I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningsI >>    to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survivald >>    of the online community."eP >>==============================================================================    / I keep seeing this, and I have to wonder a bit.M  P If I got 10,000 messages a day, or more, I'd never get through all of them, nor D have any time to respond to even 1.  Makes them all sort of useless.  N Still, if there is a message about something that I could really find useful, ? and benefit from, then the above pledge doesn't make any sense.c  O Just for discussion, say that you receive a spam e-mail offering you a product kP that would make you immortal and eternally young, and that it's a real product, P not some snake juice.  Just how far would your principles go in staying true to  the above pledge?a  3 Ok, an extreme case, but still makes a valid point.a  Q There are spammers out there that don't really target their market, just use the dI internet's capabilities to send messages to every address they can find. nO However, when someone makes the effort to target only those who probably could rK be interested in a product, in this case VMS users, then it's not what I'd oQ consider spam.  While it's true that the message is sent on my dime, and not the *+ senders, it still may have some usefulness.*  Q Not arguing for or against anything, just saying not everything is totally black ,% or white, including the above pledge.s   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:01:31 +0000r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>A Subject: Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)e) Message-ID: <3DC0025B.FAD5B4C0@127.0.0.1>i   Cor Mom wrote: > F > I am sorry to all of you if you think that we have been spamming. WeE > have just selected a number of users that are regular posting here,iD > because we thought the software we are developing could be of yourE > interest. Please do not look to us as a spammer, because we are noteA > and will not become one. We are company that is writing seriouspC > software for the OpenVMS platform. We are sorry that we made this  > small mistake.  F As someone that has upwards of 40 junkmails a day to my personal emailE address, I can understand why folks here get upset. I received a copy6D too, and wondered if maybe it came from an extract of the one or two VMSy lists I do subscribe to.   ; I appreciate you coming clean, but I think your best methodKG would be to issue a press release to Sue Skonetski (who is seen on thise? list) and she will post it here, and probably copy it round thenC ambassadors as well. I regard it as 'product awareness' rather thaneG advertising. You could also (as suggested) post here, as others do from,
 time to time.t  H I wonder how people would react to something like this in their inbox...   To: computer-useri From: VMSisGREAT@hp.comhA Subject: ELIMINATE SYSTEM CRASHES MAKE VIRUSES THINGS OF THE PASTs 98hh23gh  3 Are you TIRED of you computer HANGING and CRASHING?t  ? We have the answer, read on, this is not junk mail, this is thetF truth. Run OpenVMS it has been proved that the TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP isB MUCH LOWER and it is SECURE. NEVER HAVE ANOTHER VIRUS! OpenVMS has PROVED itself time and time again.e   FIND OUT BY CLICKING BELOW  " http://VMSistheKING@161.114.65.60/  C This is NOT SPAM, under Federal Regulations if there is a method ofa removalf  4 CLICK HERE http://removeme.mailbox.biz?=emailskjf737   ...s  G I would have deleted it based on the subject alone, assuming nothing inW' the headers matched any SPAM filtering.c  A Sigh. Back to married women that want to meet me, urgent businesseD relationships, cell phone boosters, v*agra replacements and some hot stock tips.u   -- c? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesl nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:10:25 +0200 * From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>A Subject: Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software) * Message-ID: <3DC01281.2000002@tzora.co.il>   Nic Clews wrote:  C > Sigh. Back to married women that want to meet me, urgent business.F > relationships, cell phone boosters, v*agra replacements and some hot
 > stock tips.c >  ... and enlarged body parts... Mike   -- g  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htm= Other useful links at http://eisner.decusserve.org/~rechtman/"E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.n? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*rE Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337 C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"tE ---------------------------------------------------------------------t   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2002 18:42:59 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>nA Subject: Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)p6 Message-ID: <20021030184259.26183.qmail@gacracker.org>  > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   <snip>  I >There are spammers out there that don't really target their market, just 	 >use the  J >internet's capabilities to send messages to every address they can find. P >However, when someone makes the effort to target only those who probably could L >be interested in a product, in this case VMS users, then it's not what I'd I >consider spam.  While it's true that the message is sent on my dime, and 	 >not the r, >senders, it still may have some usefulness.  I Posting to Usenet does not give someone the right to email you. It simply J provides them with your address. Should the nature of your posting merit aJ private response, email is appropriate. Should someone who sells a productK that would deal with whatever problem or issue you've posted about send you C an email, that might be acceptable. However, if you sell a product,aJ pointing out to the wider audience reading the group that your product may, meet the cited needs would be more sensible.  B Taking an address you find on Usenet, and guessing as to someone'sI interests and preferences about unsolicited email, then sending them some % boilerplate email is just plain rude.a     Doc. -- u6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netz   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:08:40 -0500r* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>A Subject: Re: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software)i5 Message-ID: <kcVv9.16993$H67.75510@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   I Someone suggested to send a press release to Sue, and I really think it'sm the way to go.  G I get enough email already, plus many SPAM every day. Even if those areeF OpenVMS related products, I prefer learning about the product by otherJ means. It's not because it's for VMS that I necessarily need it or want to know it even exists.  K Instaed of SPAMming, register as a business partner with HP and when I look(H for something, I'll see if someone in this (busineess partners) list has something that suits my need.r   My own opinion.t   --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)p8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  E "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> a crit dans le message de news:.2 d7791aa1.0210291920.30c15c30@posting.google.com...: > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message/ news:<VRfswQgrx1TA@eisner.encompasserve.org>...tJ > > In article <xCvv9.77703$r7.1499327@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:tJ > > > Does anyone know anything about the e-mails I have been getting from > > > info@momss.nlcJ > > > It is about some software called "VIP" for VMS Information Provider. ItJ > > > allows you to do things like stop all the process using a particular image,F > > > even across a cluster.  I could find a lot of uses for that one. > > >pF > > > They actually have a pretty good web site:  http://www.momss.nl/* > > > I just have a problem with the spam. > >  > >mL ============================================================================ ==D > > The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythingI > >      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor  willD > >      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningsL > >      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival" > >      of the online community." > >iL ============================================================================ == >LB > if they listened to your pledge, they would have never have sentD > you the email and you would have never known about the product ...? > sounds counterproductive to me ... I want to know about everyl > product out there for vms ...l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:30:56 -0800:$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>A Subject: RE: VIP software e-mails (spamming to sell VMS software) 0 Message-ID: <01C27FFF.7EC4A600@sulfer.icius.com>  ' Some anti-spam links + tools for y'all.f  % http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/agsf/aC Weird bunch of people, but a good starting point if you're serious.eH Especially the "training" and "tools" links. Mostly intended for Usenet,2 but a lot of the tricks work just as well on spam.   http://www.samspade.org/5 Great tool for tracking down spammers and their ISPs.h  & http://www.mailwasher.net/download.phpD If you're getting mail on a PC, this will let you bounce the spam soH they think your e-mail doesn't exist. Includes rule-based auto bouncing.   ShaneP   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Oct 2002 07:19:36 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)C6 Subject: VMS 7.1 & SYS$INPUT, SYS$COMMAND and READ(5,)5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-RpyFdhN131Wg@localhost>.  D I've finally started to move our test system to VMS 7.n. Currently, B this just means Q/A'ing images and DCL files written (and tested) F under VMS 6.2 on a 4000/610, on a DS20E running VMS 7.1-2. Everything F has been going as expected until we tried to do the test that runs the tool in Batch mode.e   Something like  ; $! BATCH job to show the ability to run tests in BATCH mode  $y $ @test_supervisor ans_1u ans_2l ans_3  $j $@test_supervisorn ans_4M ans_5s ans_6  $C $ exit  > test_supervisor.com calls the main image, which is written in ; DEC-Fortran (F77) 7.1 (IIRC - I'm at home - maybe its 7.2).   F The procedure does the work it is expected to do but the (ans_n) lines" intended to be read by the Fortran     READ (5,x)  F are subsequently _also_ processed by DCL and generate 'data in command stream' errors.b  7 To ensure the Fortran program  reads from SYS$COMMAND, l# test_supervisor.com has always useda   $ ASSIGN SYS$COMMAND FOR005   D Has anybody seen this behaviour before? Is it VMS 7.1, Fortran 7.?? > RTL or have I been doing something wrong all these years (not F unknown:-)). I've always had the suspicion my understanding may not be 100%.a  E The impression I get is that the ans_n lines are being split off and  ! placed in the SYS$COMMAND stream,nE being read as FOR005 but _not_ then being removed from the stream to T
 SYS$INPUT.  F If I don't assign FOR005, Fortran takes input from SYS$INPUT and sees C the $ of the next DCL line and, quite rightly, tells me EOF on i/p o? streem. If I force it to SYS$INPUT I get the same effect. I am B
 confused.   F In the short term, it's not a showstopper, as the functionality works.A It's just the confusing error messages that I need to be able to   explain to our Q/A man.n  F I definitely do need to understand it before moving forward to 7.2 and beyond.   E I did check in the doc set  but can't find SYS$COMMAND in the master mE index. There is a section in the VMS User's Guide, whose index tells j< me about a SYS$INOUT device that I'd not heard of before :-)   -- 6 Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:42:00 +0000 (UTC)c+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)aJ Subject: Re: VUPS, MIPS, microfortnights and other arcane units of measure+ Message-ID: <apogi8$c30$3@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>o  [ In article <3DBF4E8B.EF2E8076@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:s >VAXVMS wrote: >>  7 >> Presuppose a unit of measurement called the redmond.s >> How should it be defined? >fD >Probably as a function taking into account the number of M$-poweredH >servers in (a portion of) an installation and their likelihood of beingD >disabled, either temporarily or permanently due to viruses, variousI >forms of corruption (memory leaks, filesystem damage, etc.) and applying5A >to that an index of downtime cost relative the to organization'sRH >operating costs per hour (or other suitable unit of cost vs. time), andF >taking into consideration the elevation of that operating cost due toG >the need to direct resources away from the business and toward revival5 >of the downed server. >pF >Thus, the TCO of such systems could include a statistically estimated2 >value stated in "Redmonds" as a weighting factor. >mG >For example, for the TCO of 1 W2K server in an organization having 200 F >of them (total) and which expends $125,000/hour in operational costs,G >the analyst might include a value of some 250 Redmonds per year, which G >might be further calculated as some $25,000,000/year in potential cost C >of downtime (for budgeting purposes only - this is an estimate, at  >best).s >nD >Naturally, VMS-based systems would have dramatically lower RedmondsE >counts due to the dramatically reduced likelihood of being downed bye" >errant and/or malicious software. >-  K However Microsoft (with the active help of companies such as HP) would then O launch a marketing campaign that convinced everybody that it was better to have.& a machine with a higher Redmond value.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:21:46 -0500 5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>IJ Subject: RE: VUPS, MIPS, microfortnights and other arcane units of measureO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A2E0@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>f  / simple - average time between boots or reboots.o   >> s7 >> Presuppose a unit of measurement called the redmond.e >> How should it be defined? >     I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or.J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:17:45 GMT , From: Leonard Fehskens <len.fehskens@hp.com>J Subject: Re: VUPS, MIPS, microfortnights and other arcane units of measure: Message-ID: <Xns92B788BBF800LenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153>  < hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) wrote in + news:A0Cv9.27$_z1.1168492@news.cpqcorp.net:r  h7 >>Presuppose a unit of measurement called the redmond. y >>How should it be defined?r >  > Ambiguously?   Incorrectly?   len.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:43:48 +1100l1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>oY Subject: Re: Why did the VMS programmers confuse Halloween with Christmas this  year? thi-, Message-ID: <3DBF9BC4.8050401@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Jeffrey Coffield wrote:h > JF Mezei wrote:s >  >> Tom Linden wrote: >> >>> You forgot NOV 27e >> >> >>6 >> OCT 31 and DEC 25, I get. But I don't get NOV 27... >>J >> At the risk of making me sound very stupid, would you care to explain ? >  >  >  > Nov = base 9?R > 2 x 9**1 + 7*9**0 = 25  A I doubt that you're alone, J-F.  But then we don't write PL/I :-)r  G Very clever, Tom.  I'd never seen that variant before.  Not to rain on aA your parade (the family version of the phrase), but isn't base 9  B "nonal"? (No maths/computing dictionary at hand), as from nonagon?   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************n  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegeda> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise-B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.h  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid UA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid useso> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************y   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:36:58 +0000 (UTC)e+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)aT Subject: Re: Why did the VMS programmers confuse Halloween with Christmas this year?+ Message-ID: <apog8q$c30$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>b  [ In article <3DBF4DC5.998D31C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:e >Tom Linden wrote: >> y >> You forgot NOV 27 >e4 >OCT 31 and DEC 25, I get. But I don't get NOV 27... >lH >At the risk of making me sound very stupid, would you care to explain ?  L I'd assume he was talking base 9 but I've never heard of base 9 being called NOV.I If it is, then is BASE 7 SEP  and can we then include SEP 34 (OK it's not F a valid date but then I doubt base 7 is actually abbreviated as SEP or base 9 is abbreviated as NOV).    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.600 ************************