1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 01 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 481       Contents: RE: "inview" Article	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) G Re: Current ways to restrict FTP access to user's login directory tree? * Re: Did you "get a glimpse of the future"? Escape SequencesE Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) E Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) . Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4. Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements  OpenOffice ODBC and Oracle Rdb Re: Physical disks) Problems compiling PINE in VMS - C Errors A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? " Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week+ Slashdot: Revitalizing the Internet and VMS / Re: Slashdot: Revitalizing the Internet and VMS ! Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance  Re: VMS for i86  Re: VMS for i86  Re: VMS for i86  RE: VMS performance software Re: VMS performance software  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:33:48 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: "inview" Article T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9557@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  . >>> Gold, why not platinum? Or is that NSK? <<  @ One might argue that NSK is the gold standard for shared nothingA clusters while OpenVMS is the gold standard for shared everything 	 clusters.   % Both strategies have pro's-n-con's ..    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----> From: Tim Llewellyn [mailto:tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk]=20 Sent: August 30, 2002 11:49 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: "inview" Article          John Smith wrote:  =20  > "For Security and Stability  > Return to the Gold Standard* >=20 =20 * Gold, why not platinum? Or is that NSK?=20     --=20 ! tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk=20   H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:27:05 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: am/pm, Message-ID: <3D710A74.F403E3E0@videotron.ca>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:F > Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing about whether am/pm is better orG > worse than the 24-hour system. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.   J pardon my ignorance, but what is the weakness of the 24 hour time format ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:18:03 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: am/pm@ Message-ID: <LD8c9.56750$On.2922376@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0208310936.4aaabef5@posting.google.com...    ...    > I just find it odd that so; > many people object to the de facto, sensible, convenient, 9 > mathematically-based, logical, new convention for am/pm   D That could be because it's a 'new convention' only in your own mind.H 'Conventions' do refer to accepted practice, you know, and this practiceL appears to have at least a significant degree of lack of acceptance (both byI your own words above, and by your reference to the lack of substantiation , for it in the dictionary you chose to cite).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 17:16:37 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: am/pm= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0208311616.7d0838dc@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D710A74.F403E3E0@videotron.ca>...  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:H > > Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing about whether am/pm is better orI > > worse than the 24-hour system. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.  > L > pardon my ignorance, but what is the weakness of the 24 hour time format ?     Here are three!:  B 1.) It's much easier to read a 12-hour analog clock than a 24-hour
 analog clock.   D 2.) In the U.S., you'll make a lot more money selling 12-hour clocksA (with the de facto convention for am/pm, of course) than you will F selling 24-hour clocks. Similarly, you'll get less confusion and fewerD complaints publishiing times in the am/pm system than in the 24-hour3 system. Doesn't matter. I can handle either system.   8 3.) In the 24-hour system, people say times like 0700 asF "O-seven-hundred hours" for 0700. There are no hundreds in the 24-hourC time system, yet that is how people say such times. At least that's E the impression I get from movies and press conferences. Hundred means B 100. There are no hundreds in the 24-hour time system. Hah! That's@ just as "inconsistent" as 12:00 pm! I can hear it now: "But it'sD sensible to say it that way, it is the de facto method of saying it,$ etc." Hmm, I've heard that before!!!   Disclaimer: JMO  Alan E. Feldman  spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:30:37 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>  Subject: Re: am/pm2 Message-ID: <9Zec9.1943$Y3.299628@news.xtra.co.nz>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D715F44.27CE61BA@fsi.net...  > AG wrote:  > > 8 > > Just a quick question: Why is high noon called 12pm?8 > > After all, that stands for "12 hours past meridium".2 > > One would expect it to mean midnight in fact:) > > 4 > > Or, how come 11:59:59am + 1 second = 12:00:00pm? > > @ > > After all, that thing just said said it's 11:59:59 hours etc5 > > before the meridium. One second later it says the . > > meridium is 12 hours past ... Go figure:-) > C > Well, actually it's a number of hours SINCE and event created the  > current state.  < Yep, and that was my question: why would 12:00:01pm/am apply7 to something that is only one second SINCE? (Pardon the ) shouting - just a cut and paste thing :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:06:35 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: am/pm' Message-ID: <3D715F44.27CE61BA@fsi.net>   	 AG wrote:  > 6 > Just a quick question: Why is high noon called 12pm?6 > After all, that stands for "12 hours past meridium".0 > One would expect it to mean midnight in fact:) > 2 > Or, how come 11:59:59am + 1 second = 12:00:00pm? > > > After all, that thing just said said it's 11:59:59 hours etc3 > before the meridium. One second later it says the , > meridium is 12 hours past ... Go figure:-)  A Well, actually it's a number of hours SINCE and event created the  current state.  @ That is, 00:00:00.01 put us into the ante-meridiam state, and at7 11:59:59.99, that is the count of time since the event.   F Otherwise, time would always be counting down toward the event, ratherH counting up since the event ("noon" would 12:00:00.00 until a.m., wat weH currently call 03:00pm or 15:00 would be "09:00:00.00 until a.m., and so on...)  C (I honestly don't believe this "thread that would not die" is still 
 going on!)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 03:12:14 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: Re: am/pm' Message-ID: <3D71696E.4048BB6B@aaa.com>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > c > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D710A74.F403E3E0@videotron.ca>...  > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:J > > > Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing about whether am/pm is better orK > > > worse than the 24-hour system. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.  > > N > > pardon my ignorance, but what is the weakness of the 24 hour time format ? >  > Here are three!: > D > 1.) It's much easier to read a 12-hour analog clock than a 24-hour > analog clock.   D And what does the 12-hour *analog* clock have to do with the 24-hourE *digital* one ? Who are you ? Do you realy think that the rest of the D world, who use a 24h clock, realy use analog clocks/watches that use, 1-24 ? So your first point must be a joke...     > F > 2.) In the U.S., you'll make a lot more money selling 12-hour clocksC > (with the de facto convention for am/pm, of course) than you will H > selling 24-hour clocks. Similarly, you'll get less confusion and fewerF > complaints publishiing times in the am/pm system than in the 24-hour5 > system. Doesn't matter. I can handle either system.   B Almost every new digital clock has a switch to select am/pm or 24hE *display*, no problem. And, besides, *ALL* clock or other timekeeping A systems in the known would uses a day devided into 24 hours. It's B just a matter of displaying it, and it's, of course, far easier to0 display the time *as-it-is* without any rewrite.  E Since there are realy no "12h" and "24h" clocks, we are noe left with  your last point...     > : > 3.) In the 24-hour system, people say times like 0700 asH > "O-seven-hundred hours" for 0700. There are no hundreds in the 24-hourE > time system, yet that is how people say such times. At least that's G > the impression I get from movies and press conferences. Hundred means D > 100. There are no hundreds in the 24-hour time system. Hah! That'sB > just as "inconsistent" as 12:00 pm! I can hear it now: "But it'sF > sensible to say it that way, it is the de facto method of saying it,& > etc." Hmm, I've heard that before!!!  > That's more or less only a military way of saying things. MostE people say "at 15 hour" or something similar. You must know very well C that the military uses a lot of "funny" ways to say things, just so " it will be 100% clear what's ment.  7 How many countries in the world uses the am/pm system ?  The majority ?  > Of course it easy to show that it would be a god thing to drop@ the am/pm thing. It's mostly a matter of calculating the cost of@ rewriting/redesigning systems that uses am/pm display. Much like> switching to the metric systems, b.t.w. It's easy to show that? that also would be a wise thing to do, but there are some costs   involved and that's the problem.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    >  > Disclaimer: JMO  > Alan E. Feldman  > spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 04:10:23 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: am/pm' Message-ID: <3D719868.19B4DE75@fsi.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > [snip]: > 3.) In the 24-hour system, people say times like 0700 as$ > "O-seven-hundred hours" for 0700.   " Make that "...some people say...".  G I could go on about how that got started, y'know, throat microphones in H early aircraft, the quality of early voice communications gear, and suchD (which, incidentally, also took part in giving birth to the Airmen'sD Phonetic Alphabet), but you've heard all that before also, I'm sure.  H Oh yeah, and if you can find a copy of the old film, "Sink the Bismark",C you'll hear British actors protraying British characters using such E references as "oh-five-double-oh" (of course, there is no digit "oh", B only "zero", but that argument back to my Citizen's Radio days)...  @ Sometimes, when I'm asked the time, I like to screw people up by? responding with something like, "zero-niner-four-seven, local".   H I also remember the ATIS broadcast from ORD (Chicago O'Hare, fka OrchardA Field) in the wee hours one morning in Feb. of 1981 just as I was E leaving to drive to the Twin Cities (in Minnesota). It went something G like this: "O'Hare Aiport Information Foxtrot. The zero-eight-zero-zero E Zulu weather: indefinite ceiling zero, sky obscured, visibility zero. ? Temperature three-two, dewpoint three-two, wind calm, altimeter D three-zero-zero-zero. Notices to Airmen: O'Hare Airport is currentlyG closed. Departing aircraft have reported moderate to severe clear icing A below one-thousand-eight-hundred feet. Departing aircraft contact H Departure on frequency one-two-five-point-four. Advise the controller onB initial contact that you have information TroxFot." (I believe the" mispronunciation was intentional.)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 04:11:59 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: am/pm' Message-ID: <3D7198CB.2AFCC98F@fsi.net>   	 AG wrote:  > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D715F44.27CE61BA@fsi.net... 
 > > AG wrote:  > > > : > > > Just a quick question: Why is high noon called 12pm?: > > > After all, that stands for "12 hours past meridium".4 > > > One would expect it to mean midnight in fact:) > > > 6 > > > Or, how come 11:59:59am + 1 second = 12:00:00pm? > > > B > > > After all, that thing just said said it's 11:59:59 hours etc7 > > > before the meridium. One second later it says the 0 > > > meridium is 12 hours past ... Go figure:-) > > E > > Well, actually it's a number of hours SINCE and event created the  > > current state. > > > Yep, and that was my question: why would 12:00:01pm/am apply9 > to something that is only one second SINCE? (Pardon the + > shouting - just a cut and paste thing :-)   " Why shouldn't it? What did I miss?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:47:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> H Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?), Message-ID: <3D710138.893DFBFF@videotron.ca>   Paul Sture wrote: ? > No. Point taken, although you do get to see some stereotypes. J > If you ever do visit the UK, please don't think London is representative > of the entire country.  L You mean not every australian male is like Crocodile Dundee or the CrocodileI Hunter, and ever australian female like Elle McPherson or Nicole Kidman ?   # :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 07:57:51 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> H Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)2 Message-ID: <e89c9.1884$Y3.288580@news.xtra.co.nz>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message 7 news:343f30ae.0208291144.63e9646c@posting.google.com...   = > This way, all the times starting with 12 in that first hour A > have the same am/pm value, namely am. What sense would it be to  > have > 
 > PM 11:59
 > PM 12:00
 > AM 12:01
 > AM 12:02  , None of course. Obviously the hour must stay- the same within the same hour (including it's * qualifiers). What should happen though, is# that 11:59pm rolls over to 00:00am.   3 The fact that it doesn't simply means that, in thiso8 particular case, you are using 12 as a substitute for 0./ (Which looks strange to anyone who doesn't take 9 it for granted). Consider that, to continue your example, < 12:59am rolls over (for some inscrutable reason) to 01:00am.  5 Anyway, the only point I wanted to make was that this 7 whole am/pm thing isn't all that obvious and/or naturalg* for those who haven't grown up with it :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 02 02:50:29 +0200c) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)iH Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)) Message-ID: <WKK3mwZ5bsMV@elias.decus.ch>m  U In article <6fp+oAKJw7F5@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:d > In article <rdeininger-3108020932150001@1cust90.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:lI >> In article <yYIqmKfrQWW8@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paulr >> Sture) wrote: >>  I >>>I have never been able to understand the phobia the US appears to have C >>>about the 24 hour clock. It is even seen in sit-coms where folksi1 >>>go ballistic about the use of "military time".t >> qK >> If you are having trouble understanding the US, perhaps you are watchingeL >> too many American sitcoms, or taking them too seriously.  They are hardly >> representative. >>A Apologies, but yes we did have too many US sitcoms over the yearsb
 in the UK.   >   I >> I've never been to England.  If I go, should I expect everything to beh( >> like it is in "Are You Being Served?" > D A rethink here. When it was originally broadcast (25-30 years ago?),C the roles those folks enacted were close enough to the truth, whichn is what made it so funny.   = Oh, the site I recommended earlier has just hit the Inquirer.m; A copyright issue, with the BBC blatantly nicking someone'ss website photo.  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5200 __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:08:57 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>eH Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)2 Message-ID: <5xfc9.1954$Y3.300756@news.xtra.co.nz>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messageo7 news:b096a4ee.0208291949.5c135598@posting.google.com... 3 > Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message # news:<3D6E90F5.D3EF7C16@aaa.com>...  > > About AM/PM... > >-@ > > Just skip am/pm all together and use 00:00:00  --  23::59.59$ > > as in most parts of the world... > >  > > Jan-Erik Sderholm.r >M >@E > Well, until the whole world uses the 24-hour system, many must dealAF > with am/pm. And if you use am/pm electronic devices, be advised thatE > 12:00 am is midnight and 12:00 pm is noon. If one has to use am/pm,dE > that is the simplest, most convenient, most logical, most sensible,r > most mathematicaln  > Hrrrm, 12.59 + 00.01 = 01.00? Want to build some math theorems on top of that?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:38:25 GMTi From: sasadmin <jec@nospam.net> P Subject: Re: Current ways to restrict FTP access to user's login directory tree?2 Message-ID: <87bs7iex2t.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>  ( jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:  H > OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 with TCPIP V5.1 eco 4.  Already checked the FAQ and* > historical appearances of this question. > C > We've got a fair number of users on this system who are moving tohF > using FTP (the Powerterm graphical client) to move files between VMSD > and their peecees in place of Pathworks to the previous VAX systemB > (upgrade license costs...); it is adequate since most users only" > transfer files 1-2 times a week.M If it's not too late, you might want to consider Samba. More info @ samba.org      -- . Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 22:21:50 -0400h  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>3 Subject: Re: Did you "get a glimpse of the future"?b6 Message-ID: <1020831221934.31385B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Didier Morandi wrote:  P > I got via mail an ad from NHP. A leaflet with a coin, a few words from VP RichQ > Marcello on VMS and a nice picture of a Bausch & Lomb device on the first page.F > & > What is it? A old Swiss wrist watch?% > Mine is #1392. Did I win something?f6 > If I turn the red knob, will I release Flood Dam #2? >  > :-)  >  > D.2 > (good to be back from a 5 days F77/VMS teach :-(  7 It's one of those coin-operated binoculars they have at  tourist attractions.  9 I "took coin" but I haven't encountered a vending machine 8 that will accept it.  Maybe if I give it to a troll, the troll will go away?  :-)   -- i John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:51:33 -0400o, From: "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> Subject: Escape Sequencesa@ Message-ID: <kh8c9.11972$vY2.204724@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>   Hi ,F       I forgat how to place escape sequences in EDIT and which are theK escape sequences for bold, big letter and so on. If anyone can help. Thanksn   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:11:36 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly)C Message-ID: <Ix8c9.324349$2p2.13767355@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>n  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message7 news:bf5c9.66913$kp.721815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...o   ...l  
 > I refuse/ > to put up with claims of plagariasm and worsel  J Terry apparently has some difficulty differentiating 'claims' from 'proof'J (which I was careful to provide, with specific references, for anyone withK any doubt about my assertions).  There was a reason I went to the effort toyJ count the 4 original brief sentences in the 14 lengthy and otherwise (saveL for an occasional word-change) plagiarized paragraphs he presented above hisE own copyright claim, and it wasn't because I enjoy reading that crap.u   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 01:39:09 GMTe& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)N Subject: Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly)- Message-ID: <akrr3t$c8u@web.eng.baileynm.com>   + In article <3D6FEBF1.8CE3603@videotron.ca>,a/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: H > Heck, while you are at it, why not sue the church, since they claim toJ > represent god, and god created the heavesn, the earth, humans and vodka.   Sue God.  & Not like He hasn't been asking for it.   -- 1O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofstO of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AllqL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 21:15:53 -0400  From: Everhart <ge@gce.com>d7 Subject: Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4c+ Message-ID: <akrpoc$h9m$1@bob.news.rcn.net>u   Ed Wensell III wrote:  > Francisco Ortega wrote:  > L >>   I have a question. This alpha seems to have an scsi-2 drive (2 or 4gb),H >>and simms memory 72 pinns. I just want to be sure so I can upgrade theN >>disks. What scsi drives can this alpha run and what type of cables it's needL >>it (how many pins). and how much the max memory that i can put with simms,K >>been that it has 8 slots. If I take the 64 out, and put all new syms, how7N >>much can I put (max)? . And what is the biggest hard drive that I can put. I" >>think I could put up two inside. >> >>Thanks >> >>Franciscoi >  > ! > PPS - This might come in handy:gH > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/workstations/retired/a255series.html > M If you have a recent VMS (say, 7.2 or better) dkdriver will happily work withuH disks up to 1TB. Of course there are no such, yet, but I have been usingL a dkdriver-controlled 120GB disk for some time. (I set the cluster factor toH 12; setting it to 1 made some operations a little slower than I wanted.)  J Above 1TB you are setting the sign bit in the block number, which will notI work correctly unless a few places in dkdriver and elsewhere get changed.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:23:34 GMTl1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial> 7 Subject: Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4t0 Message-ID: <3D6F3443.E4C771E7@yahoo.commercial>   Francisco Ortega wrote:   D > What kind of enclosures are you using? where did you bougth them? ? > I think it will much better to have the drives outside. IT's - > defenitly worth it.  e  H The enclosure I have is a very old unit I got out of the surplus bins atE work. I believe any case with 50-pin cables/connectors would work (or 2 with the proper adapters as someone else stated).   G Don't have any information on SRM supported SCSI boards. There might be.; some information on the AlphaStation site in my other post.'   -- r Ed Wensell III  ; E-mail address is valid if you know the right bits to drop.c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 08:31:19 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> 7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?s2 Message-ID: <CD9c9.1890$Y3.289662@news.xtra.co.nz>  ' <danco@ns2.pebble.org> wrote in messageh+ news:slrnamsr4l.e24.danco@ns2.pebble.org...2 > In article@ <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA4F@rlghncst964.usps.gov>,$ > Webb, William W Raleigh, NC wrote: > >gE > > AM = Ante Meridian, which starts at 12:01 AM and ends at 11:59 AM E > > PM = Post Meridian, which starts at 12:01 PM and ends at 11:59 PM   H Interesting isn't it?  That means that 12.01 < 11.59 (after all, you can defineG a non-empty range between those values) At the same time, the followingpJ also holds: 12.01 < 1.00 < 11.59  (which may be OK in itself if you assume4 the first inequality but see where it gets you to?).   What about time lapse:   11.59 - 12.01 = 11.58p 01.00 - 12.01 = 00.59   . Makes up for some intersting math, doesn't it?   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 14:26:00 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?h= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0208311326.53859867@posting.google.com>o   "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message news:<BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA4F@rlghncst964.usps.gov>... > Bob is correct.  n > D > AM = Ante Meridian, which starts at 12:01 AM and ends at 11:59 AM C > PM = Post Meridian, which starts at 12:01 PM and ends at 11:59 PMe    @ That's ante meridiem and post meridiem. And your definitions are archaic and imprecise.    F > A more pressing question is whether the phrase anal-retentive should1 > be hyphenated or written as two separate words.     F And this is the thanks I get for stopping the content-free, pointless,; endless, bickering between Fred and Andrew! Sheeeeeeeesh!!!o  @ Now let's see. *You* are the one who's insisting on using silly,F outdated, definitions for timekeeping while I am simply supporting theE current new convetion for am and pm, which is logical, mathematicallyeD self-consistent, sensible, and convenient. *You* are standing in the way of progress.  9 Now just what were you saying about "anal-retentive"? :-)   A BTW, my main purpose was to stop the above mentioned bickering. I ? really never expected to start up a discussion on this again!!!h     > :^)l >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----8 > From: "Bob Koehler" [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]) > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:51 AMd > To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" 9 > Subject: RE: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?e >  > ? > In article <343f30ae.0208281118.774e09d7@posting.google.com>, 2 > SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > >tJ > > And remember, CLAIMING NOON AND MIDNIGHT ARE EACH NEITHER AM NOR PM IS > > RIDICULOUS! THANK YOU. > F >    In that case I will assert the claim, especially since it's true.    F You better take your VCR back to the shop and have it's clock "fixed".4 (Not to mention countless other electronic goodies.)     Disclaimer: JMOi Alan E. Feldman  spamsink2001 at yahoo dot comt   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 15:41:20 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?r= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0208311441.4c252c69@posting.google.com>c  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D6E3B18.986A4A94@videotron.ca>...o > Carl Nelson wrote:c > >   Why 12:00 m? Well, am is the latin for "ante merides" and pm is the latin for "post merides". b > > Merides is the point in the sky where the sun is the highest in the sky. In other words, noon. > L > No ! No ! No !  Most locations on Earth do not have the sun at its highestK > point at noon, especially when you consider daylight savings and standardeP > times.  Therefore, if you are at a location where the sun is highest at 13:00,N > then 12:00 (noon) would be am. But if you are at a location where the sun isX > at its highest at 11:00, then 12:00 (noon) would be pm , according to your definition.    F This is correct. But there's more. The sun rarely crosses the meridianF at 12:00 anywhere! The westward advance of the sun across the sky doesD not occur at a constant rate. It varies slightly throughout the yearC due to the non-zero angle between the equator and the ecliptic, andxD due (to a lesser degree) to the fact that the earth's orbit is not aB circle, but an ellipse with the sun at one focus. And according toC Kepler's second law, it travels faster when it is closer to the sun F than when it is farther away. The result is that the sun is as much as= (very approx.) 15 minutes early or late at the meridian. Some:C sundials, like the one on the mall at U. of Maryland, College Park, C actually have correction tables engraved in just for this effect! A3A mathematical formula that describes this correction is called theqB "equation of time". (Do a Google search for "equation of time" for more info.)2  B This lends even more support to the silliness of using the archaic= definitions of am and pm. Isn't noon when the sun crosses the0A meridian?! Bzzzzt!!! There goes the whole system based on literal5A interpretations of ante meridiem and post meridiem, since the sun A rarely crosses the meridian at 12:00 local time. We don't live byeA local solar time; we live by standard time (which is UTC plus our F local time zone differential), and they (local solar time and standardE time) are different. Back in the days when am and pm originated, they C lived by local solar time. It doesn't matter much any more what thehD original definitions were, since strict application of them leads to" inconsistencies with actual usage.  > Don't believe me?! Check the sunrise and sunset tables for anyE location on earth. You'll see that the vast majority of times are notm> symmetric about 12:00 (pm). In fact, you'll also find that theD earliest and latest sunrise and sunset times for a given location doA not fall on the solstices! They are close, but not right on. ThiseF difference is especially notable for the winter solstice. For northern> latitudes below the arctic cirle, the earliest sunset is earlyF December and the latest sunrise is in early January. Don't believe me? Check the tables!i  $ You can generate your own tables at   8     http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.html  .  > You know that figure-8 you sometimes see on globes? That's theE analemma. That is what you would get if you pointed a camera to whereaA the celestial equator crosses the meridian, clamped the camera in-F place on a sturdy tripod, and took a picture (very small exposure onlyF on sunny days) at 1200 (that's 12:00 pm) local standard time every day for a year.c  A For more information, check out www.analemma.com . They even haveuC animated explanations of all this. (I have no financial holdings in 
 that site :-)   C And if you wish to use terms like 12 noon, 12 midnight, and 11:59PMlE (for clarity), go ahead! I have no objection!!! There's nothing wronguE with them for casual use. But I have yet to see any electronic device:2 that will display noon or midnight at those times!  C And yes, the 24-hour system doesn't need this discussion. I have noWE argument with that. But good luck getting the am/pm people to switch!e   Happy timekeeping.   [...]e   Disclaimer: JMOv Alan E. Feldmanr spamsink2001 at yahoo dot comn   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:51:09 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>a7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?-2 Message-ID: <qgfc9.1947$Y3.300141@news.xtra.co.nz>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagej0 news:akll51$1k5o0m$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... > In article@ <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA4F@rlghncst964.usps.gov>,? > "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes:r > >d > > Bob is correct.i > >3E > > AM = Ante Meridian, which starts at 12:01 AM and ends at 11:59 AMgE > > PM = Post Meridian, which starts at 12:01 PM and ends at 11:59 PMu > >,  J Just out of curiosity - what do you call the time from 11:59pm to 12:01am?D More curious even, your definition above seems to fly in the face ofH conventional math - you have just said that something can start at 12.01+ and end at 11.59 (using the same scale too)o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:20:04 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>t7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?t2 Message-ID: <vHfc9.1956$Y3.300879@news.xtra.co.nz>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D6E3B18.986A4A94@videotron.ca...   >yJ > You'd need a computer and a GPS to figure out exactly whether noon today where K > you are would be am or pm. And it would wreak havock when trying to setupeI > meetings. And I sincerely doubt that Microsoft Outlook would be able to L > properly schedule teleconferences if one participant will have the call atI > 12:00am while the other participant will have the same call at the sameu time > set to 12:00pm._  L I guess the problem in all that discussion is the strange idea that there isF such a thing as 12am/pm. After all, the same digital watches that showD 12am/pm do *not* show 24:00:00 but switch right through to 00:00:00.E I've never heard anyone complain about that. So, what's so hard abouta* replacing those misguided 12s with zeroes?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:52:07 -0400>- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements, Message-ID: <3D710244.271DAAEC@videotron.ca>   Paul Sture wrote:.1 > I have had rogue sites trying to "do something" A > with my systems - for example whacking up new X-windows screensiB > or just simply using a lot of cpu. Java may be fine, but I don't= > trust Javascript. I simply don't want someone else choosinga% > what my system is going to do next.n  L I am not so worried about javascript security. But I too have disabled it byL default because I found more and more site would use javascript that "broke"K netscape which wouldn't load any pages afterwards. (actually, it loads them<M but doesn't display anything). Disabling javascript fixes that. I have gottengN to know the few sites that really require javascipt and are worthy of enablingL it just for them. (and those sites generally are unprintable since the printN engine doesn't know what to display - for instance, when images are loaded via6 javascript instead of the standard simple html stuff).  J I long disabled JAVA because it is so frustrating when you hit a site thatL forces its slow startup. Again, I know of one NASA site where java is usefulO (predicting space station passes over where I live, and for that, I enable it).f   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:24:33 -0400m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements, Message-ID: <3D7109DC.E023A97B@videotron.ca>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:D0 > For those who don't believe Paul, try visiting$ > http://www.pheer.de/exploits.html   N I got a black page with nothing. But when I looked at the source code for thatE page, I quickly saw what the page owner's intentions were. Glad I hadM javascript disabled.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:30:05 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>iB Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements, Message-ID: <3D710B27.D37BAA4A@videotron.ca>   Arne Vajhj wrote:G > > Such as most web-borne malware.   Java and JavaScript give too muchc0 > > control over my computer to unknown persons. > 8 > Is this fact today - or is it just leftover reputation > from 6 years ago ?  C I think that javascript can still be malicious in terms of stealing N information from your browser and including it in the next URL which means theJ site knows more about you than you agreed to provide. (I am thinking about* stealing your email address for instance).  N Java I am more concerned about since you can't even look at the source code to see what has been done.h  N But I agree that most of the true dangers are probably closed by now, However,L javascript can still be malisious in terms of hanging your computer, popping  up unwanted windows etc etc etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 21:27:36 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements+ Message-ID: <3D7118A8.3090203@mail.tele.dk>c   JF Mezei wrote:n  E > I think that javascript can still be malicious in terms of stealingoP > information from your browser and including it in the next URL which means theL > site knows more about you than you agreed to provide. (I am thinking about, > stealing your email address for instance).    8 That is not serious security problem. I am old enough to> remember, when web-browsers per default did send email-address in the HTTP-headers.  P > Java I am more concerned about since you can't even look at the source code to > see what has been done.      Actually you can.-  / (Java class files are very easy to decompile !)      P > But I agree that most of the true dangers are probably closed by now, However,N > javascript can still be malisious in terms of hanging your computer, popping" > up unwanted windows etc etc etc.    < True indeed. Besides malicious usage then just the the popup2 of a bunch of unwanted advertisements is annoying.  : But it is a nothing compared to the ActiveX problems being8 discovered on Windows/MSIE all the time. I saw one a few? months ago where a HTML page could start *any* external programa; on the PC. It does not take a lot of imagination to see how. that could be used malicious.t   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 02 03:06:35 +0200l) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)iB Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements) Message-ID: <se6oMmcuFVI4@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <0$9hvMHYq2q1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Ap > In article <3D70D359.6060201@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes: >> Paul Sture wrote: >>  E >>>>What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?i >>> I disable both.I >>  9 >> Then there are quite a few things on the web that willi >> not work properly ! > E > Such as most web-borne malware.   Java and JavaScript give too muchx. > control over my computer to unknown persons.  A Partly thanks to you for your advice a couple of years or so ago,uB but also a UK guvvernmint site caused me a DoS by sending Netscape@ 3.03 into a permanent loop doing goodness knows what. Forunately backup tapes were in hand.  m __
 Paul Sture Switzerland/   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 03:30:29 GMTy( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>' Subject: OpenOffice ODBC and Oracle Rdbp, Message-ID: <3D7189D3.7080004@spammotel.com>  I In an effort to reduce my personal reliance on Billyware, I've installed eF the OpenOffice suite on a Windows machine here at home.  I could find G some use for the suite if I could make a successful ODBC connection to cH the Oracle Rdb database at work, but so far have been unable to make it  happen.e  G Anyone here manage to make a successful ODBC connection with an Oracle 2@ Rdb database from the OpenOffice 1.0 or 1.0.1 suite of programs?   Regards, Alderw   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 02:02:30 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t Subject: Re: Physical diskss' Message-ID: <3D717A6E.762DA32D@fsi.net>n   Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote: > 	 > Hi All,t >  > I have a simple question.t > J > Is it possible to mount a device physically on two disks . Or we need to > mount it as shadow sets. > I > I am new to the concept of creating shadow sets, so an elaborate answern > would be much appreciated.  C Well, assuming you have the appropriate license for shadowing, it'sfA really quite simple, just not spelled out that way in the doc.'s.n  D 1. Establish each machine's ALLOCLASS parameter as a non-zero value.6 Make an appropriate entry in SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT.   Example:
 ALLOCLASS = 1A  E Then, run AUTOGEN from at least GETDATA through at least SAVPARAMS toeF generate the new system parameters. Ideally, you'd want to run AUTOGEN from SAVPARAMS through REBOOT.  1 2. Establish the shadow-set from a single volume.c   Example:3 $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA1:/SHADOW=($1$DKA0) DRIVE0 DRIVE0v  $ 3. Add shadow-set members as needed.   Example:; $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA1:/SHADOW=($1$DKA0,$1$DKB0) DRIVE0 DRIVE09  + (Shadow-sets can have up to three members.)2  G That's it in a nutshell. It is assumed that you are familiar with those1E aspects of OpenVMS System management which are not explicitly spelleda	 out here.e   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:47:22 -0400 , From: "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc>2 Subject: Problems compiling PINE in VMS - C Errors@ Message-ID: <od8c9.11937$vY2.203623@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>  K after running vmsbuild , I'm getting this errors. (Only showing the errors)-   They are compilation errors.   THANK YOU VERY MUCH  Francisco R. Ortegal    ) VMSBUILD-I-LIBRARY, Creating PICO librarya< %LIBRAR-W-COMCOD, compilation warnings in module OS_VMS file DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCs( O.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.PICO]OS_VMS.OBJ;1: %LIBRAR-W-COMCOD, compilation warnings in module PICO file DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO. $ PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.PICO]PICO.OBJ;19 %VMSBUILD-I-LINK, Linking stand-alone PICO editor utilitya$ %LINK-W-WRNERS, compilation warnings         in module PICO filee4 DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.PICO]PICO. OLB;1n$ %LINK-W-WRNERS, compilation warnings         in module OS_VMS filen2 DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.PICO]PIC O.OLB;1e3 %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$UNLINK multiply defined*A         in module DECC$SHR file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR.EXE;1 L %VMSBUILD-I-CCLIENT, Building C-client library with DEC C and NO TCP support $dL CC/PREFIX=(ALL,EXCEPT=(SOCKET,CONNECT,BIND,LISTEN,SOCKET_READ,SOCKET_WRITE,S OCL KET_CLOSE,SELECT,ACCEPT,BCMP,BCOPY,BZERO,GETHOSTBYNAME,GETHOSTBYADDR,GETPEER NAMEL ,GETDTABLESIZE,HTONS,HTONL,NTOHS,NTOHL,SEND,SENDTO,RECV,RECVFROM))/STANDARD= VAXCL /DEFINE=(_DECC_V4_SOURCE,_XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED,VMSIO)/WARNING=DISABLE=TOOFE WACT UALS/NOOPTIMIZE OS_VMS  C     u_char          sin6_len;           /* length of this struct */p ....^.< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 376 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.  TLB;2n  6     u_char          sin6_family;        /* AF_INET6 */ ....^P< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 377 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.  TLB;2O  A     u_short rhdr_offset;         /* data offset in IPv6 packet */t ....^.< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 458 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.r TLB;2   8     u_char  rhdr_proto;          /* The protocol type */ ....^-< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 459 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.o TLB;2l  H     u_char  rhdr_authOK;         /* TRUE if the pkt was authenticated */ ....^e< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 460 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.t TLB;2"  $     typedef u_char * __u_char_ptr32; ...................^ %CC-E-NOSEMI, Missing ";".2 at line number 57 in module RESOLV of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEo F.TLB;2l  G         u_long  options;                /* option flags - see below. */c	 ........^y< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.3 at line number 105 in module RESOLV of text librarya SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  @         u_short id;                     /* current message id */	 ........^e< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.3 at line number 110 in module RESOLV of text libraryr SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  I         u_long  pfcode;                 /* RES_PRF_ flags - see below. */a	 ........^e< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.3 at line number 113 in module RESOLV of text librarys SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  H __u_char_ptr32  p_cdnname (const u_char *, const u_char *, int, FILE *); ................^c %CC-E-NOSEMI, Missing ";".3 at line number 289 in module RESOLV of text library  SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  ) __char_ptr32    p_option (u_long option);t ..........................^dK %CC-E-BADPARSEPARAM, In this parameter list, "u_long" must either be a typev or m ust be followed by a ",".u3 at line number 294 in module RESOLV of text libraryc SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  $ u_int           res_randomid (void); ................^" %CC-E-NOSEMI, Missing ";".3 at line number 302 in module RESOLV of text librarya SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  G ns_updrec *     res_mkupdrec (int, const char *, u_int, u_int, u_long);y2 .................................................^2 %CC-E-PARMTYPLIST, Ill-formed parameter type list.3 at line number 319 in module RESOLV of text librarye SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  ;          {strncpy(buffer, s, size-1); buffer[size-1]='\0';}d
 .........^ %CC-E-NOSEMI, Missing ";". at line number 210 in file5 DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.IMAP.ANSI.Cl -CLIENT]TCP_VMS.C;2'          elsen .......^! %CC-E-BADSTMT, Invalid statement.s at line number 211 in file5 DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.IMAP.ANSI.C' -CLIENT]TCP_VMS.C;2t  & __char_ptr32    p_secstodate (u_long); ................^lL %CC-W-FUNCIDLIS, In the declaration of "p_secstodate", a function declarator has,I  an identifier list but is not part of a function definition.  Extraneousr parame ter names are ignored.3 at line number 295 in module RESOLV of text libraryi SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  	 THANK YOUo  - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in messagec0 news:akqc73$1kgkh0$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...J > Why don't you read the vmsbuild.com file? If that procedure compiles andL > links something then the target directory must be known, at least the name > of the .EXE file.., > Check for logical names  ( sho log *PINE*); > "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> schreef in bericht > > news:v7Qb9.108090$%v4.5604301@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com... > > Hi,nL > >      I'm trying to install pine but with no luck. I download it from theL > > freeware site at montagar.com and then I transfer the file into my alphaE > > 255. I'm currently running OpenVms 7.2. After uncompressing it, Im realizeT > IvJ > > need it C (CC) so I installed it on the alpha. Well, the thing is that > aftersK > > reading the aaareadme.txt I have not been able to figure it out. I havePL > > create it a production folder but everytime that I run vmsbuild from theK > > root of the folder or from [.pine] or [.pico], it does not generate anylK > > *pine*.exe files, furthermore, in the PINE folder, I don't even see anys > exedK > > file . I see that compiles fine but I can't find them. I look in all mym > DKA0G > > . Can someone please tell me an easy way to install PINE. Thank youE > >d > >  > >i > >1 >    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 01:43:51 GMTp& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?- Message-ID: <akrrcn$cjj@web.eng.baileynm.com>   . In article <ujTb9.236506$me6.32409@sccrnsc01>,0 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:K > www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather froms > non-customer trolls.  J Terry, neither you nor Bill have enough credibility left to be spending it this profligately.   -- nO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofstO of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AlloL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:41:36 GMTo1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>SJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?- Message-ID: <4ndc9.149186$aA.31516@sccrnsc02>   A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message@0 news:20020831170239.30296.qmail@nym.alias.net...I > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:  >cC > Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?o > J > I think that is a rather unfair assessment of most of the people posting herein.OI > I also looked in comp.sys.dec, and believe the crosspost was completelyiL > unneccessary, as that newsgroup does not seem to contain the criticism you > appear to be referring toe  K You are entitled to your opinion, and you may well be right. A lot of trollg crossposts occur, too. .a >iJ > It really comes as no surprise to me that some people have the attitudes youoJ > seem to be referring to. After all, when was the last time the owners of VMSn) > didn't treat it like an unwanted child?l  K Oh, just a few years after I wrote my book about it. HP *does* appear to bee! making some improvements, though.    >  > >Check out > >pL > >www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather from > >non-customer trolls.3 >0F > That someone other than HP owns these domains is just, IMHO, another
 indication. > that they don't care as much as they should.  J I wouldn't argue that one. I understand that a CPQ marketing droid was allF bent out of shape about the name of one of the sites, but I neverr saw@ him/her/it follow up with anything better on the corporate site.   >s6 > Let's look at a few other domains they should own... >d5 > $ WHOIS/HOST=whois.networksolutions.com openvms.comd >e > <snip> >h
 > Registrant:s2 > System Management Associates, Inc. (OPENVMS-DOM) >y > (Specifically Mark Levy.)    And a good guy he is, too.   >r > / > $ WHOIS/HOST=whois.alldomains.com openvms.net  >t > <snip> >r
 > Registrant: * >         Compaq Computer Corp (DOM-89185)5 >         20555 State Highway 249 Houston TX 77070 USt >nL > Okay, so they own this, and it ain't been updated to HP. However, when you trycL > to go to http://www.openvms.net you get nothing - except for the followingD > console errors indicating somebody can't set up a DNS correctly... >.: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  31-AUG-2002 16:43:43.50  %%%%%%%%%%%" > Message from user SYSTEM on MUNG> > named: Lame server on 'www.openvms.net' (in 'openvms.NET'?): [207.46.138.12].53 > 'DNS5.CP.MSFT.net' >0: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  31-AUG-2002 16:43:43.71  %%%%%%%%%%%" > Message from user SYSTEM on MUNG> > named: Lame server on 'www.openvms.net' (in 'openvms.NET'?): [207.46.138.11].53 > 'DNS4.CP.MSFT.net' >h: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  31-AUG-2002 16:43:47.09  %%%%%%%%%%%" > Message from user SYSTEM on MUNGA > named: ns_forw: query(WWW.OPENVMS.NET) All possible A RR's lame  >cA > Lets move on to the name most people in here tend to use - VMS.i >d( > $ WHOIS/HOST=whois.opensrs.net vms.com
 > Registrant:3 >  Desktop News Corporationr > 1 > $ WHOIS/HOST=whois.networksolutions.com vms.netR >n > <snip> >l
 > Registrant:c > WIN SYSTEM (VMS4-DOM)e >    1-33-6, KOMABA3 >    MEGURO-KU, TOKYO 153e >    JPr >:H > Honestly, if HP can't be bothered to own the domains for these, and at leastoF > point them to the appropriate point in their corporate site, it just doesn'tu > look good. >aD > Take as an example the FAQ, Hoff should be able to point people to	 somethinge1 > like http://vms.com/FAQ and it should be there.  >l   Yeah, it is indeed a goat-rope!s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 01:44:15 BSTg+ From: Ian Hastie <ian_a_hastie@hotmail.com>nJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?< Message-ID: <slrnan2omr.b93.ian_a_hastie@iahastie.local.net>  6 In article <20020831170239.30296.qmail@nym.alias.net>,    Doc.Cypher wrote: > / > $ WHOIS/HOST=whois.alldomains.com openvms.netg >  ><snip>  > 
 > Registrant:.* >         Compaq Computer Corp (DOM-89185)5 >         20555 State Highway 249 Houston TX 77070 US-  2 The name servers for this domain are meant to be..  #     Domain servers in listed order:s  $     DNS2.DIS.ORG        216.240.44.9$     DNS.DIS.ORG         216.240.45.9  9 But even it is saying the following for DNS assignment...e  " # dig @216.240.45.9 openvms.net ns ;; QUESTION SECTION:* ;openvms.net.                   IN      NS   ;; ANSWER SECTION:A openvms.net.            172305  IN      NS      DNS4.CP.MSFT.net. A openvms.net.            172305  IN      NS      DNS5.CP.MSFT.net.l   ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:= DNS4.CP.MSFT.net.       172305  IN      A       207.46.138.11n= DNS5.CP.MSFT.net.       172305  IN      A       207.46.138.12u  - And who, as if you can't guess is MSFT.net??!t   Registrant:  Microsoft Corp. (MSFT4-DOM)J    One Microsoft Way
    Redmond    WA,98052     US       Domain Name: MSFT.NET  P > Okay, so they own this, and it ain't been updated to HP. However, when you tryL > to go to http://www.openvms.net you get nothing - except for the followingD > console errors indicating somebody can't set up a DNS correctly... > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  31-AUG-2002 16:43:43.50  %%%%%%%%%%%" > Message from user SYSTEM on MUNGQ > named: Lame server on 'www.openvms.net' (in 'openvms.NET'?): [207.46.138.12].53o > 'DNS5.CP.MSFT.net' > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  31-AUG-2002 16:43:43.71  %%%%%%%%%%%" > Message from user SYSTEM on MUNGQ > named: Lame server on 'www.openvms.net' (in 'openvms.NET'?): [207.46.138.11].53  > 'DNS4.CP.MSFT.net' > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  31-AUG-2002 16:43:47.09  %%%%%%%%%%%" > Message from user SYSTEM on MUNGA > named: ns_forw: query(WWW.OPENVMS.NET) All possible A RR's lame<  H Now look again at the "lame" servers and wonder why their owner can't beH bothered to set it up right.  Better yet, wonder how they became the DNS' for openvms.net when they shouldn't be.d   -- e Ian.   EOMt   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 02:10:33 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?@ Message-ID: <tGec9.63867$On.3196662@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in message ' news:akrrcn$cjj@web.eng.baileynm.com... 0 > In article <ujTb9.236506$me6.32409@sccrnsc01>,2 > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:H > > www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather from > > non-customer trolls. >lL > Terry, neither you nor Bill have enough credibility left to be spending it > this profligately.  L I encourage you to be specific about anything I've said that you do not feelL is credible, since I do make significant attempts to be accurate and usually( have references available to back it up.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 20:51:32 -0700f% From: Tom Crabtre <tccrab@sunset.net>uJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?* Message-ID: <3D718EC3.C1579C10@sunset.net>  L Actually, I'm sick of people who just complain how Compaq and now HP screwed them.p> If DEC had such a good thing, Bill Gates would have bought it.$ It's not like he couldn't afford it.+ Since he didn't it means one of two things:d/ 1. He was smarter than you give him credit for.R7 2. Ken was so short sighted he couldn't see the future.t   TomC   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:    > Check out  >aK > www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather fromt > non-customer trolls. >  > -- > Terry C. Shannon- > Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows HPCw: > Director, Technical Communications, Science Medicus Inc.' > Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.t > terryshannon@attbi.com > http://www.openvms.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 04:20:58 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>aJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?' Message-ID: <3D719AE3.1F24F60A@fsi.net>T   Tom Crabtre wrote: > N > Actually, I'm sick of people who just complain how Compaq and now HP screwed > them.A@ > If DEC had such a good thing, Bill Gates would have bought it.  5 ...and abandom his own (adopted?) "baby"? Not likely!0  & > It's not like he couldn't afford it.   When? Then or now?  - > Since he didn't it means one of two things:01 > 1. He was smarter than you give him credit for.e  D If he is as smart as some folks (including him) like to think he is,B he'd have dropped Windows like a hot potato by now and the world'sD servers would be running his GUI on top of VMS instead of Micro$hit.  9 > 2. Ken was so short sighted he couldn't see the future.n  7 Definitely arguable, but that's another topic entirely.-   -- - David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems0 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 13:21:43 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0208311221.3b0107d8@posting.google.com>   a Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87it1sxhnj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>... 2 > SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > E > > The file system assumes that anything of the form name.DIR;1 is aoG > > directory file. Everything else is considered a non-directory file.J > F > That's what *should* happen Alan. In fact, if you rename a directoryD > file on top of an existing one, you end up with FOO.DIR;2, and theF > files in ;1 `vanish'. :( DIR files are the ONLY place in ODS-2 where/ > highest version wins is not the way it plays.0    B You just said they would vanish. Then you say that highest version. doesn't win for .DIR files. Which do you mean?  = Anyway, here's a fun session illustrating what *does* happen:U  - DCL> CRE/DIR [.FOO]- DCL> COPY NL: [.FOO]FILE.TYP  %COPY-S-COPIED, _NLA0: copied to2 DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.FOO]FILE.TYP;1 (0 records) DCL> DIR FOO.DIR  L" Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]  O= FOO.DIR;1                   1/4       31-AUG-2002 17:38:52.99L  O Total of 1 file, 1/4 blocks. DCL> DIR [.FOO]   C& Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.FOO]  T= FILE.TYP;1                  0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:06.88S    Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks.    D OK, this is normal. I created a directory and put a file in it. Now,4 let's try to "fool" VMS by creating a rogue FOO.DIR:     DCL> COPY NL: FOO.DIRaE %COPY-S-COPIED, _NLA0: copied to DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]FOO.DIR;2 (06 records) DCL> DIR FOO   " Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]  t= FOO.DIR;2                   0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:37.55I= FOO.DIR;1                   1/4       31-AUG-2002 17:38:52.99     Total of 2 files, 1/4 blocks.  DCL> DIR [.FOO]v  a& Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.FOO]  g= FILE.TYP;1                  0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:06.88e  6 Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks.  C VMS wasn't fooled. The files in FOO.DIR;1 did not vanish. Now let's 9 try a rename of an actual properly-functioning directory:p   DCL> CRE/DIR [.OTHER]. DCL> REN OTHER.DIR FOO;oA %RENAME-I-RENAMED, DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]OTHER.DIR;1 renamed to ! DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]FOO.DIR;3/ DCL> DIR FOO   " Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]  S= FOO.DIR;3                   1/4       31-AUG-2002 17:39:58.42b= FOO.DIR;2                   0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:37.55T= FOO.DIR;1                   1/4       31-AUG-2002 17:38:52.99.  . Total of 3 files, 2/8 blocks.  DCL> DIR [.FOO]b  5& Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.FOO]  M= FILE.TYP;1                  0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:06.88     Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. DCL>    $ Same thing. It's .DIR;1 that counts.  ? So let me rephrase my original statement: When presented with aRD directory-spec, VMS takes each component and looks for the file with& the same name with the suffix ".DIR;1"  3 So, if you have [ONE.TWO.THREE], the VMS looks for s   [000000]ONE.DIR;1r [ONE]TWO.DIR;1 [ONE.TWO]THREE.DIR;1  ? If it finds all of those, it assumes it has found the specifiedTA directory, etc. It doesn't matter what the command is: DIR, COPY, = RENAME, F$PARSE, that's how dir-specs are interpreted by VMS.c  > And now, in reference to the "Unix boy" request about checking everything:   B If you want to check if the directory is corrupted, that's another< story. But how much checking do you need to do? How often doC directories get corrupted? I've only seen it happen once myself andfF I've been using VMS since 1985. And why not check if the disk is still' mounted? Or if the lights are still on?.  $ And now, back to our current poster:   > Being fixed.     ??? What's broken?     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmana spamsink2001 at yahoo dot como   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 23:56:35 GMT_1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekr& Message-ID: <3D715CEC.699C0EE@fsi.net>   Peter Weaver wrote:$ > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D6FC585.665CEC1B@fsi.net.... > > ....B > > No, I guess you're right. "Filetype extensions" (remember thatK > > terminology from the pre-VMS o.s. documentation?) *ARE* meaningless. So[ > > ...C >  > Completely meaningless;t >  > $ create mytest.exeu$ >         type *, 'The program ran.'
 >         endn > <Exit>! > $ for mytest.exe/obj=mytest.forA" > $ link mytest.for/exe=mytest.obj > $ run mytest.obj > The program ran. > $n  D That gets back to the question of the difference between what CAN be done and what SHOULD be done.I  A CAN you play games with filetype extensions like that? Certainly!_  F SHOULD you play games with filetype extensions like that? Put yourselfH in the position of the new sysadmin walking into your shop and trying toH guess whether object files have a .FOR extension or .COB or .PHB or .RTA! or even .OBJ (what a concept!)...o  F > I remember one person who kept his text-only resume in a file calledH > newpay.exe in his development are, he figured nobody would find it and& > figure out he was looking for a job.  F Thank goodness they never had a disk problem such that the only way toF find files that got clobbered was to run ANALYZE/IMAGE on all the .EXE files, or some such...  G Another poster suggested that filetypes should be indicated in metadatagH rather than relying on extensions. That would make extensions redundant,E but that certainly would not be unusual. I'm sure we've all seen, foruF example, a [.REPORT] directory containing a zillion files where eitherA the name or the extension starting with or contained "REPORT_" ory similar redundancy...f  A Until the full breadth of system services are accessible from thetG command language, I think we'll continue to see confusion in this area. G Some examples might be extensions of the lexicals and/or commands mighti/ include (but not be limited to) such things as:s  4 $ vbl = F$SEARCH( pattern[, context[, keyword(s)]] )  F ...where keyword(s) might include BINARY_EXECUTABLE, ASCII_EXECUTABLE,) DIRECTORY, SEMANTICS=(tag_list), etc. ...   > $ DIRECTORY[/BINARY_EXECUTABLE][/DIRECTORY][/ASCII_EXECUTABLE]   -- n David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 22:03:39 -0400r( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week , Message-ID: <3D71757B.4050808@tsoft-inc.com>  O I had to try the exercise, since I remember a time when you could have another aO non-directory file, the same name and a higher version # as a valid directory, bL and VMS worked with the highest version file, thus effectively 'losing' the Q original directory, at least until you deleted the non-directory file.  A normal yL occurance was when someone would do a directory listing, to an output file, 6 named DIRECTORY.DIR, whatever the directrory name was.  M So I tried it on V7.2, and lo and behold, the version 1 file was used as the  N directory, as described below.  So, back to an older version, 6.2, and things  were the same.  P I guess my question is, when was this 'fixed'?  Anybody with a V5.? system that  can test the operation?c   Dave     Alan E. Feldman wrote:  c > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87it1sxhnj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...p > 2 >>SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: >> >>D >>>The file system assumes that anything of the form name.DIR;1 is aF >>>directory file. Everything else is considered a non-directory file. >>>lF >>That's what *should* happen Alan. In fact, if you rename a directoryD >>file on top of an existing one, you end up with FOO.DIR;2, and theF >>files in ;1 `vanish'. :( DIR files are the ONLY place in ODS-2 where/ >>highest version wins is not the way it plays.o >> >  > D > You just said they would vanish. Then you say that highest version0 > doesn't win for .DIR files. Which do you mean? > ? > Anyway, here's a fun session illustrating what *does* happen:e >  e > DCL> CRE/DIR [.FOO]t > DCL> COPY NL: [.FOO]FILE.TYP" > %COPY-S-COPIED, _NLA0: copied to4 > DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.FOO]FILE.TYP;1 (0 records) > DCL> DIR FOO.DIR >   $ > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL] >  a? > FOO.DIR;1                   1/4       31-AUG-2002 17:38:52.99h >    > Total of 1 file, 1/4 blocks. > DCL> DIR [.FOO]t >  o( > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.FOO] >  n? > FILE.TYP;1                  0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:06.88  >  n > Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. >  > F > OK, this is normal. I created a directory and put a file in it. Now,6 > let's try to "fool" VMS by creating a rogue FOO.DIR: >  >  > DCL> COPY NL: FOO.DIRnG > %COPY-S-COPIED, _NLA0: copied to DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]FOO.DIR;2 (0e
 > records) > DCL> DIR FOO >   $ > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL] >  l? > FOO.DIR;2                   0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:37.55o? > FOO.DIR;1                   1/4       31-AUG-2002 17:38:52.99t >  n > Total of 2 files, 1/4 blocks.a > DCL> DIR [.FOO]  >   ( > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.FOO] >  w? > FILE.TYP;1                  0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:06.88  >    > Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. > E > VMS wasn't fooled. The files in FOO.DIR;1 did not vanish. Now let's ; > try a rename of an actual properly-functioning directory:h >  > DCL> CRE/DIR [.OTHER]: > DCL> REN OTHER.DIR FOO;oC > %RENAME-I-RENAMED, DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]OTHER.DIR;1 renamed toy# > DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]FOO.DIR;3  > DCL> DIR FOO >   $ > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL] >  s? > FOO.DIR;3                   1/4       31-AUG-2002 17:39:58.42s? > FOO.DIR;2                   0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:37.55e? > FOO.DIR;1                   1/4       31-AUG-2002 17:38:52.99% >  e > Total of 3 files, 2/8 blocks.  > DCL> DIR [.FOO]o >  w( > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.FOO] >  .? > FILE.TYP;1                  0/0       31-AUG-2002 17:39:06.880 >  4 > Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. > DCL> >  > & > Same thing. It's .DIR;1 that counts. > A > So let me rephrase my original statement: When presented with asF > directory-spec, VMS takes each component and looks for the file with( > the same name with the suffix ".DIR;1" > 5 > So, if you have [ONE.TWO.THREE], the VMS looks for o >  > [000000]ONE.DIR;1  > [ONE]TWO.DIR;1 > [ONE.TWO]THREE.DIR;1 > A > If it finds all of those, it assumes it has found the specifiedoC > directory, etc. It doesn't matter what the command is: DIR, COPY, ? > RENAME, F$PARSE, that's how dir-specs are interpreted by VMS.s > @ > And now, in reference to the "Unix boy" request about checking
 > everything:e > D > If you want to check if the directory is corrupted, that's another> > story. But how much checking do you need to do? How often doE > directories get corrupted? I've only seen it happen once myself and H > I've been using VMS since 1985. And why not check if the disk is still) > mounted? Or if the lights are still on?e > & > And now, back to our current poster: >  >  >>Being fixed. >> >  >  > ??? What's broken? >  >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. FeldmanH > spamsink2001 at yahoo dot comn >    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 15:07:46 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 4 Subject: Slashdot: Revitalizing the Internet and VMS3 Message-ID: <b+6S1ZjY6Ebi@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  : http://slashdot.org/articles/02/08/31/1431208.shtml?tid=95  A has a discussion of VMS, but my feeling is it could use some more @ input from those for whom VMS is a current reality rather than a past memory.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 02 03:44:33 +0200m) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)N8 Subject: Re: Slashdot: Revitalizing the Internet and VMS) Message-ID: <DjKbtONqba4Q@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <b+6S1ZjY6Ebi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:5< > http://slashdot.org/articles/02/08/31/1431208.shtml?tid=95 > C > has a discussion of VMS, but my feeling is it could use some moreeB > input from those for whom VMS is a current reality rather than a > past memory.  = A good find. A lot of old prejudices there, which could standh correcting.  __
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:18:26 -0400o% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> * Subject: Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question/ Message-ID: <un294jq2q5lgd8@news.supernews.com>   I I believe you are running into problems with the subnet mask.  You didn't1J always specify the subnet and you;re using CIDR addresses which may not beE supported by everything.  Specifically, your SET ROUTE command didn't  specify /MASK.  K As long as you're using private IP addresses, you can make your life easier I by picking non-CIDR addresses.  For example, use a range from the privateuH class C range of 192.168.*.*.  A class C address has a natural subnet ofI 255.255.255.0.  Use the 3rd byte to identify the network and the 4th bytew for the node in the network.    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D70854F.DBCD2F03@videotron.ca...I > I have a local subnet of 10.0.0.* , mask 255.255.255.240 (eg: from 0 to2 15). > 1 > default routing/gateway is a router at 10.0.0.1u2 > node "BIKE" is  10.0.0.10 and has the DNS server > node "VELO" is  10.0.0.11- > 5 > my PSION PDA was set to 10.1.0.20  (its own subnet) F > and similarly set interface SL1 on VELO to TXC0:   (Slip interface). >n > I SET PROT IP/FORWARD. >cL > I have followed instructions in the manuals but it fails. TCPTRACE on nodeJ > VELO reveals that a dns requests originating from the PSION does make it toI > the dns server, and the responses from the DNS server (on bike) make ita backF > to VELO, displayed by TCPTRACE, but they don't make it to the PSION. > B > Both BIKE and VELO have a TCPIP SET ROUTE 10.1.0.20/gateway=VELO (10.0.0.11)n >I > I have basic questions:t >oL > Must the PSION be on a different subnet in order for VELO to route traffic, > between the ethernet and SLIP interfaces ? > J > Should the SL1 (slip) interface have the same IP address as that defined on
 > the PSION ?l >wK > Would the TCPIP software on VELO be able to forward/route packets betwenee the>E > ethernet and the slip line no matter what sort of routing is activeP (basic, ; > gated, routed ?) Or shoudl a specific routing be needed ?o >tK > If, from BIKE I try to ping the PSION,  I get instant responses (probablyw4 > issued by velo) even if the PSION is disconnected. >r > I > By the way, in TCPIP, HELP SET PROT  says that you should be able to doC > SET PROT UDP/FORWARD >c > However that command fails.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:00:00 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance% Message-ID: <3D715DBA.3C1BB1@fsi.net>    Paul Sture wrote:c > e > In article <X7IB3dFbn2Tj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:ai > > In article <akl6p3$1k2uct$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:f > >>L > >> While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/isL > >> a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related toG > >> 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscureoM > >> locations and don't advertise where they are.  With communications being O > >> what it is today, what exactly was the advantage of putting the datacentero > >> in the WTC building??  F Well, for starters, have you ever dealt with AT&T? ...an RBOC? You mayF find that despite the telecomm. break ups of long ago, the attitude ofH most providers is still quite arrogant and flippant. One advantage mightC have been not having to deal with such things except for the backup  sites.   --   David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 02 03:55:59 +0200o) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance) Message-ID: <haNAf2s198vs@elias.decus.ch>(  Y In article <3D715DBA.3C1BB1@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:2 > Paul Sture _only quoted_:m >>  f >> In article <X7IB3dFbn2Tj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:j >> > In article <akl6p3$1k2uct$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >>1M >> >> While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/isJM >> >> a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related to H >> >> 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscureN >> >> locations and don't advertise where they are.  With communications beingP >> >> what it is today, what exactly was the advantage of putting the datacenter >> >> in the WTC building??s > H > Well, for starters, have you ever dealt with AT&T? ...an RBOC? You mayH > find that despite the telecomm. break ups of long ago, the attitude ofJ > most providers is still quite arrogant and flippant. One advantage mightE > have been not having to deal with such things except for the backupD > sites. > I Please get your attributions correct. You didn't quote anything _I_ said.f  A However, I have dealt with BT (British Telecomm) and I do believeD> they were worse than AT&T ever were. And still are, judging by" what I read of their ISP services. __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandi   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 03:25:23 GMT" From: Cypherpunk@nyc.rr.com 6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance8 Message-ID: <DMfc9.37387$1r.11491975@twister.nyc.rr.com>  J In comp.unix.solaris Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: >   J >   Whilst I don't want to get too drawn into this, your response probablyO >   didn't make it back to the poster you were responding to. That is because IOK >   suspect they read it in comp.unix.solaris. Unfortunately, as you access M >   comp.os.vms via the Info-VAX gateway, crossposts are dropped. If the uspsa? >   will let you, it is much better getting the group via nntp.r   Thank you for playing. Bye-bye.n   -- g Missing VA girl Jennifer Short!H3 Picture of and info on Gary "Amber Alert!" Burnore:S8     http://home.nyc.rr.com/cypherpunk/childmolester.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 03:47:03 GMTC1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>G6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance' Message-ID: <3D7192F0.CE70D22A@fsi.net>    Paul Sture wrote:  > [ > In article <3D715DBA.3C1BB1@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:I > > Paul Sture _only quoted_:  > >>h > >> In article <X7IB3dFbn2Tj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:l > >> > In article <akl6p3$1k2uct$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >> >>MO > >> >> While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/is O > >> >> a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related toIJ > >> >> 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscureP > >> >> locations and don't advertise where they are.  With communications beingR > >> >> what it is today, what exactly was the advantage of putting the datacenter > >> >> in the WTC building??e > >xJ > > Well, for starters, have you ever dealt with AT&T? ...an RBOC? You mayJ > > find that despite the telecomm. break ups of long ago, the attitude ofL > > most providers is still quite arrogant and flippant. One advantage mightG > > have been not having to deal with such things except for the backupd
 > > sites. > >n' > Please get your attributions correct.n   I did.  % > You didn't quote anything _I_ said..  F ...which is obvious from reading my earlier post (no first-level quoteH indicators). Call it a limitation of the medium. I can't blame Netscape, it did it's job o.k.  C > However, I have dealt with BT (British Telecomm) and I do believei@ > they were worse than AT&T ever were. And still are, judging by$ > what I read of their ISP services.  D You may very well be right. I've no experience with BT, so I'm in no position to say.   --   David J. Dachteras dba DJE SystemsF http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:18:01 GMTs! From: "Derigible" <none@none.com>r Subject: Re: VMS for i86. Message-ID: <JD8c9.309257$UU1.54354@sccrnsc03>  9 "Carlos de Paula" <depaula@praxitek.com> wrote in messager7 news:672067e5.0208302257.6865da60@posting.google.com... ? > Does anybody know if there is a VMS (small version) for Intel E > plataforms. I would like to play with it. Where can I get a copy ofH > it?u  H Not if you're looking for a scaled-down version of the *real* thing. VMSF never has and never will run on the dumbed-down 386 architecture. UsedL Alphas are dirt cheap, though. Check EBay. There's almost always an Alpha of some description for sale.   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:01:11 -0500i2 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> Subject: Re: VMS for i86/ Message-ID: <un2bkrca2tfn56@corp.supernews.com>   ; This post is directed to "new" folks interested in OpenVMS.l  I OpenVMS is being ported to the Itanium, but don't bother looking for i386nL versions. It won't happen. I suggest that you look for a cheap system to run+ OpenVMS on if you are seriously interested.e  J eBay has had AlphaStations, AlphaServers, VaxStation 4000-60's, 4000-90's,I 3100's, MicroVAX 3100's all regularly for the last several months. I havehH seen them go as low as $25.00! The most I've paid for a small system has
 been $125.00.e  I A nice machine to play with is a AlphaStation 200 4/100. It is relatively L slow, but runs OpenVMS, Linux, etc. Memory for it is cheap and it works withI a lot of SCSI disks. It also has a network interface built in. I paid $66 + for one of these on August 30 of last year.s  K There is also an auction currently on eBay for a VAX OpenVMS Hobbyist CDRomsE kit, which, as most of us know, is currently sold out at Montgar. TheIC updated kits will be available in September if the folks make theirY6 schedule, and Alpha Hobbyist kits are still available.  G Membership in Encompass (the user's group) is necessary to purchase theg4 Hobbyist kit. A non-voting membership is still free.  I Finally, for folks with fast PC's and little money, there are a couple ofeK VAX emulators that you might try; I have no experience with these but would-: like to hear from someone who has set one up from scratch.   Regards, Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT neth  9 "Carlos de Paula" <depaula@praxitek.com> wrote in message#7 news:672067e5.0208302257.6865da60@posting.google.com... ? > Does anybody know if there is a VMS (small version) for Intel E > plataforms. I would like to play with it. Where can I get a copy ofc > it?h >s > Thank you, >  > Praxi    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 01:55:27 GMTy1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: VMS for i86' Message-ID: <3D7178C7.F2C2E6A5@fsi.net>e   Carlos de Paula wrote: > ? > Does anybody know if there is a VMS (small version) for Intel E > plataforms. I would like to play with it. Where can I get a copy ofo > it?n    For now, go with Didier's links.  E I just got done reading the other responses, and I'll withold commenttB for now, at least until my blood slows down from a vigorous, full, rolling boil to a slow simmer.   -- l David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/>   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:25:15 -0400e' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>t% Subject: RE: VMS performance softwarenT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660993@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Keith,  B >>> I'd also be interested in reviews of replacement products. <<<  & A few pointers in no particular order:@ 1. http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ecp/index.htmlF "OpenVMS has provided at no additional costs, the rights to use a dataH collector (ECP Data Collector) and performance analyzer (ECP PerformanceG Analyzer). Both the Data Collector and the Performance Analyzer supportrH V6.2 (or later) of the OpenVMS operating system at no additional charge.E Both OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX platforms are supported with theseD> performance applications. OpenVMS engineering will support theG product(s) on future releases of the operating system. Software Support C Service for these products is sold separately and may be purchased.eF Please contact your Compaq Services representative for further details on support for these products.  B The Data Collector metrics include CPU, disk I/O, memory, process,F network, lock, cluster, and diskset configuration information. The ECPE Analyzer provides both graphic (MOTIF- based) and tabular reports for G the data assembled by the collector(s), including metrics for CPU, disk1G I/O, memory, paging, processes, locks, SCS, and TCP/IP. ECP PerformanceR@ Analyzer provides a detailed historical performance analysis andD reporting of OpenVMS environments. The ECP Performance Analyzer is aF powerful application that will provide value added performance utility to your OpenVMS system.=20  B The current version of the data collector and performance analyzerG released in April 2002 is V5.4B which offers support for OpenVMS V7.3-1AF and bug fixes for ECP V5.4A. ECP 5.4B is the only supported version on OpenVMS V7.3-1."  7 2. http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/dcpi/]B "The Compaq (formerly Digital) Continuous Profiling InfrastructureB (DCPI) Advanced Development Kit for Compaq Alpha platforms permitsB continuous low-overhead profiling of entire systems, including theC kernel, user programs, drivers, and shared libraries. The system is F efficient enough that it can be left running all the time, allowing itE to be used to drive online profile-based optimizations for productiono	 systems.">  D 3. http://www.bmc.com/products/proddocview/0,,19052_0_0_8695,00.html BMC Patrol and Predict  4 4. http://www.perfcap.com/ - PerfCap (formerly PAWZ)  B 5. http://www.fortel.com/Solutions/Documents/PowerAgentsVMS.pdf=20  C 6. http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Product.asp?ID=3D1174 - (formerly =o DECps).0H Note that CA is trying to change their image and apparently has recentlyF drastically reduced their prices for OpenVMS related products. Contact% your CA rep or partner for more info.i   RegardsY    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesc Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----6 From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:lewis@mazda.mitre.org]=20 Sent: August 30, 2002 2:46 PMf To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como% Subject: Re: VMS performance softwarem    D "Hansford, Paul (ELS)" <P.Hansford@elsevier.co.uk> writes in articleG <2EA918FE7CC6FB4BA0510D671ADB2AB40D7A29@elsoxfs02604> dated Fri, 30 Augc 2002 18:00:40 +0100:A >Hi, I wonder if anyone could make any recommendations for VMS=20 ? >performance monitoring/tuning software I used to Polycentre=20 H >Datacollector and Performance advisor and Capacity planner, but I don't  ? >think this exists or at least not supported on Alpha platform.S  G I used it on the alpha for a couple of years.  Great product!  But thenrE DEC sold Polycenter to CA, who bundled *all* of the software togetherhF and re-sold it at approximately the list price for your hardware.  TheC new software doesn't honor the old Polycenter licenses, and the oldhE software won't run on anything higher than VMS 6.1, I think.  So it's0 effectively dead.m  H >What about Compaq Performance Analysis Web Zone (PAWZ)  has anyone used   >it ? Is it what I need?  > I'd also be interested in reviews of replacement products. =20  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 22:26:01 -0400i1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> % Subject: Re: VMS performance software 2 Message-ID: <3D717AB9.8863147E@firstdbasource.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Keith, > D > >>> I'd also be interested in reviews of replacement products. <<< > ( > A few pointers in no particular order:B > 1. http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ecp/index.htmlH > "OpenVMS has provided at no additional costs, the rights to use a dataJ > collector (ECP Data Collector) and performance analyzer (ECP PerformanceI > Analyzer). Both the Data Collector and the Performance Analyzer supporteJ > V6.2 (or later) of the OpenVMS operating system at no additional charge.G > Both OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX platforms are supported with thesee@ > performance applications. OpenVMS engineering will support theI > product(s) on future releases of the operating system. Software SupportlE > Service for these products is sold separately and may be purchased.dH > Please contact your Compaq Services representative for further details  > on support for these products. > D > The Data Collector metrics include CPU, disk I/O, memory, process,H > network, lock, cluster, and diskset configuration information. The ECPG > Analyzer provides both graphic (MOTIF- based) and tabular reports forNI > the data assembled by the collector(s), including metrics for CPU, disk0I > I/O, memory, paging, processes, locks, SCS, and TCP/IP. ECP Performance B > Analyzer provides a detailed historical performance analysis andF > reporting of OpenVMS environments. The ECP Performance Analyzer is aH > powerful application that will provide value added performance utility > to your OpenVMS system.p > D > The current version of the data collector and performance analyzerI > released in April 2002 is V5.4B which offers support for OpenVMS V7.3-1hH > and bug fixes for ECP V5.4A. ECP 5.4B is the only supported version on > OpenVMS V7.3-1." > 9 > 2. http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/dcpi/oD > "The Compaq (formerly Digital) Continuous Profiling InfrastructureD > (DCPI) Advanced Development Kit for Compaq Alpha platforms permitsD > continuous low-overhead profiling of entire systems, including theE > kernel, user programs, drivers, and shared libraries. The system is H > efficient enough that it can be left running all the time, allowing itG > to be used to drive online profile-based optimizations for productionh > systems."e > F > 3. http://www.bmc.com/products/proddocview/0,,19052_0_0_8695,00.html > BMC Patrol and Predict > 6 > 4. http://www.perfcap.com/ - PerfCap (formerly PAWZ) > A > 5. http://www.fortel.com/Solutions/Documents/PowerAgentsVMS.pdf- > I > 6. http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Product.asp?ID=1174 - (formerly DECps).vJ > Note that CA is trying to change their image and apparently has recentlyH > drastically reduced their prices for OpenVMS related products. Contact' > your CA rep or partner for more info.e > 	 > Regardse >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantb > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Servicese > Voice: 613-592-4660. > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:lewis@mazda.mitre.org]e > Sent: August 30, 2002 2:46 PMn > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>' > Subject: Re: VMS performance softwarea > F > "Hansford, Paul (ELS)" <P.Hansford@elsevier.co.uk> writes in articleI > <2EA918FE7CC6FB4BA0510D671ADB2AB40D7A29@elsoxfs02604> dated Fri, 30 Aug  > 2002 18:00:40 +0100:@ > >Hi, I wonder if anyone could make any recommendations for VMS> > >performance monitoring/tuning software I used to PolycentreJ > >Datacollector and Performance advisor and Capacity planner, but I don't > A > >think this exists or at least not supported on Alpha platform.a > I > I used it on the alpha for a couple of years.  Great product!  But thenDG > DEC sold Polycenter to CA, who bundled *all* of the software togetherlH > and re-sold it at approximately the list price for your hardware.  TheE > new software doesn't honor the old Polycenter licenses, and the oldeG > software won't run on anything higher than VMS 6.1, I think.  So it'sn > effectively dead.f > J > >What about Compaq Performance Analysis Web Zone (PAWZ)  has anyone used >  > >it ? Is it what I need? > < > I'd also be interested in reviews of replacement products. > - > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgr@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.    G There is also a product called T4 (not sure who produced it). I will be1A attempting to install it next week on some test systems at my newtD employer. It basically is able to trend all of the stuff you can getH from 'monitor system' and uses a PC viewer.  the new version is supposedF to have a web interface.  More info when I get start doing the install :)   -- o Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163n7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comAE                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmlf/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.481 ************************