1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 01 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 482       Contents:	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 3 Re: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ? * Re: Did you "get a glimpse of the future"? Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap E Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) E Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) 5 re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application 5 Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application 5 Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application  Re: Old games for VAX system. A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? ! Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question * v7.3 - mscp_serve_all = 9 serves hsg disks. Re: v7.3 - mscp_serve_all = 9 serves hsg disks Re: VMS for i86  Re: VMS for i86   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 19:00:57 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>  Subject: Re: am/pm2 Message-ID: <CWic9.2014$Y3.305291@news.xtra.co.nz>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D7198CB.2AFCC98F@fsi.net...   G > > > Well, actually it's a number of hours SINCE and event created the  > > > current state. > > @ > > Yep, and that was my question: why would 12:00:01pm/am apply; > > to something that is only one second SINCE? (Pardon the - > > shouting - just a cut and paste thing :-)  > $ > Why shouldn't it? What did I miss?  . </e sigh> Because by any reasonable definition/ of numbers that should have been 00:00:01. Just 0 by definition of what the word "since" means ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 13:26:21 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: am/pm4 Message-ID: <vKmc9.32121$C26.2928904@zwoll1.home.nl>   Alan E. Feldman wrote:c > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D710A74.F403E3E0@videotron.ca>...  >  >>"Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >>G >>>Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing about whether am/pm is better or H >>>worse than the 24-hour system. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. >>L >>pardon my ignorance, but what is the weakness of the 24 hour time format ? >  >  >  > Here are three!: > D > 1.) It's much easier to read a 12-hour analog clock than a 24-hour > analog clock.   M True, but try getting a 24-hour analogue clock ! Even if you use the 24-hour  N system, that doesn't mean you have a 24-hour analogue clock at home or in the  office.    > F > 2.) In the U.S., you'll make a lot more money selling 12-hour clocksC > (with the de facto convention for am/pm, of course) than you will H > selling 24-hour clocks. Similarly, you'll get less confusion and fewerF > complaints publishiing times in the am/pm system than in the 24-hour5 > system. Doesn't matter. I can handle either system.   M A decent digital clock/watch can be switched between 12 and 24-hour systems.  P Furthermore everybody knows that 13 is more than 1, and 22 more then 10. So the P 24 hour system is very logical in that sence. Am/pm can be confusing for people N   who are not used to that system. If a am/pm setting is necessary is certain ' case, I often see people make mistakes.    > : > 3.) In the 24-hour system, people say times like 0700 asH > "O-seven-hundred hours" for 0700. There are no hundreds in the 24-hour6 > time system, yet that is how people say such times.   N You're wrong there. In continental Europe we just say 7 o'clock or equivalent K terms in our own language. In writing we always use the 24-hour system, in  P speach it may depend on the language. In The Netherlands we we call 20.00 hours M 8 o'clock with the addition 'in the evening' if necessary to be sure. German  M television on the other hand actually talks about 22 o'clock. The British of  N course are still firmly in the am/pm system as you may have guessed, at least  for many public systems.   > At least that's G > the impression I get from movies and press conferences. Hundred means D > 100. There are no hundreds in the 24-hour time system. Hah! That'sB > just as "inconsistent" as 12:00 pm! I can hear it now: "But it'sF > sensible to say it that way, it is the de facto method of saying it,& > etc." Hmm, I've heard that before!!! >  > Disclaimer: JMO  > Alan E. Feldman  > spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 17:12:54 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>< Subject: Re: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ?4 Message-ID: <J2qc9.34048$C26.3015696@zwoll1.home.nl>  O After reading all kind of replies about using regular 6 pin RJ connectors, and  Q using knifes to get them fitting, I wonder if anyone thought about just buying a  P tool for MMJ plugs, and a plastic bag with 25 or so MMJ plugs ? I can get/order < these things in the small electronics shop in my hometown...       Alan Greig wrote: C > On 28 Aug 2002 02:42:22 +0100, joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher)  > wrote: >  >  >>Hi people, >>G >>Is there anywhere in the UK where I can get an MMJ cable made up to a G >>required lengh. I have a 10ft cable and a very very long cable and no < >>inbetween ones which is what I need (15ft would be ideal). >  > D > Just about anywhere that supplies cables I'd imagine. For example, >  > www.blackbox.co.uk >  >  > # >      Item  Code  Price ()  Qty    > DEC 423 MMJ Cable   & > 3.0-m (10-ft.)  EVAAD-0010  6.10    & > 7.6-m (25-ft.)  EVAAD-0025  6.60    ' > 15.2-m (50-ft.)  EVAAD-0050  9.90     ! > Custom Lengths  EVAAD  6.50      > MMJ Straight-Pinned Cable   ' > 3.0-m (10-ft.)  EHM007-0010  4.10     ' > 7.6-m (25-ft.)  EHM007-0025  6.70       > MMJ Connector  FM100  1.00     >      >   > > www.simply.co.uk also produced results with a search for mmj >  > C >>I found a USA site and will order from there but just wondered if # >>there is anythnig nearer to home.  >>	 >>Thanks,  >>Joe  >> >>H >>______________________________________________________________________T >>Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.comL >>     <><><><><><><>   The Worlds Uncensored News Source   <><><><><><><><> >>   >  >  > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 13:09:47 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> 3 Subject: Re: Did you "get a glimpse of the future"? ' Message-ID: <3D71F578.6AAE4AB2@Free.fr>   O It depends where you are. If you enter the cave and do not "turn light on", you " may be eaten by a lurking grue :-)   D.   John Santos wrote: > ; > I "took coin" but I haven't encountered a vending machine : > that will accept it.  Maybe if I give it to a troll, the > troll will go away?  :-)>    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 13:14:52 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Escape Sequences ' Message-ID: <3D71F6A9.82984179@Free.fr>    $ esc[0,8] = 27 # $! or CSI = 255 (CSI = <ESC> + "[")  $ bold  = esc + "[1m"			! bold $ blink = esc + "[4m"			! blink $ $ under = esc + "[5m"			! underlined' $ rev   = esc + "[7m"			! reverse video 4 $ noesc = esc + "[m"			! cancel all previous effects/ $ dblu  = esc + "#3"			! double high upper part / $ dbll  = esc + "#4"			! double high lower part   I There is also a bouble high double width but as I never used it, I do not  remember it :-)   
 opzatelps,   D.   Francisco Ortega wrote:  >  > Hi ,H >       I forgat how to place escape sequences in EDIT and which are theM > escape sequences for bold, big letter and so on. If anyone can help. Thanks    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 13:47:01 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>  Subject: Re: Escape Sequences * Message-ID: <aksunm$53t$1@news1.xs4all.nl>   Francisco Ortega wrote: N > Thanks, but how do you write Esc. I think there was a way to write escape in > edit.   * The answer is already in Didier's posting:   $ esc[0,8] = 27   G You could "hardcode" escapes in your DCL code (PF1 27 PF1 KP3) but you  A shouldn't. If you do, you can't TYPE or PRINT your DCL procedure.   < > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message# > news:3D71F6A9.82984179@Free.fr...  >  >>$ esc[0,8] = 27 % >>$! or CSI = 255 (CSI = <ESC> + "[")  >>$ bold  = esc + "[1m" ! bold >>$ blink = esc + "[4m" ! blink $ >>$ under = esc + "[5m" ! underlined' >>$ rev   = esc + "[7m" ! reverse video 4 >>$ noesc = esc + "[m" ! cancel all previous effects/ >>$ dblu  = esc + "#3" ! double high upper part / >>$ dbll  = esc + "#4" ! double high lower part  >>K >>There is also a bouble high double width but as I never used it, I do not  >>remember it :-)  >> >>opzatelps, >> >>D. >> >>Francisco Ortega wrote:  >> >>>Hi , I >>>      I forgat how to place escape sequences in EDIT and which are the G >>>escape sequences for bold, big letter and so on. If anyone can help.  >> > Thanks  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 07:22:56 -0400, From: "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> Subject: Re: Escape Sequences @ Message-ID: <KOmc9.27590$vY2.490737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>  L Thanks, but how do you write Esc. I think there was a way to write escape in edit. : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D71F6A9.82984179@Free.fr...  > $ esc[0,8] = 27 % > $! or CSI = 255 (CSI = <ESC> + "[")  > $ bold  = esc + "[1m" ! bold > $ blink = esc + "[4m" ! blink $ > $ under = esc + "[5m" ! underlined' > $ rev   = esc + "[7m" ! reverse video 4 > $ noesc = esc + "[m" ! cancel all previous effects/ > $ dblu  = esc + "#3" ! double high upper part / > $ dbll  = esc + "#4" ! double high lower part  > K > There is also a bouble high double width but as I never used it, I do not  > remember it :-)  >  > opzatelps, >  > D. >  > Francisco Ortega wrote:  > >  > > Hi ,J > >       I forgat how to place escape sequences in EDIT and which are theH > > escape sequences for bold, big letter and so on. If anyone can help. Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 17:02:52 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Escape Sequences ' Message-ID: <3D722C1B.8D05E74E@Free.fr>    within EDT:   Y PF1 27 (numeric in main keyboard) PF1 3 (on numeric keyboard, which is "special insert").   L But it is *not* a good idea to insert escape sequences in sources because it; messes up the user's screen if someone types the procedure.    D.   Francisco Ortega wrote:  > N > Thanks, but how do you write Esc. I think there was a way to write escape in > edit.  > < > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message# > news:3D71F6A9.82984179@Free.fr...  > > $ esc[0,8] = 27 ' > > $! or CSI = 255 (CSI = <ESC> + "[")   > > $ bold  = esc + "[1m" ! bold! > > $ blink = esc + "[4m" ! blink & > > $ under = esc + "[5m" ! underlined) > > $ rev   = esc + "[7m" ! reverse video 6 > > $ noesc = esc + "[m" ! cancel all previous effects1 > > $ dblu  = esc + "#3" ! double high upper part 1 > > $ dbll  = esc + "#4" ! double high lower part  > > M > > There is also a double high double width but as I never used it, I do not  > > remember it :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 16:38:18 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>  Subject: Re: Escape Sequences ) Message-ID: <3D723469.4395CDFA@Omond.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:   
 > within EDT:  > [ > PF1 27 (numeric in main keyboard) PF1 3 (on numeric keyboard, which is "special insert").   # Even easier, just hit Escape twice.   N > But it is *not* a good idea to insert escape sequences in sources because it= > messes up the user's screen if someone types the procedure.    Agreed.   F Who can remember the effects of setting process name to ^E (control E)D when a user did $ show system on a VT100 ?  :-)  A long time ago ...  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 16:52:34 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: Escape Sequences ; Message-ID: <3d7229b2.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   . Didier Morandi (Didier.Morandi@Free.fr) wrote: > $ esc[0,8] = 27 % > $! or CSI = 255 (CSI = <ESC> + "[")   ! Small correction: csi[0,8] = 155.    cu,    Martin --  F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 02 19:52:20 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: Escape Sequences ) Message-ID: <QQ+IfcNsn4hY@elias.decus.ch>   W In article <3D724D16.3DB23F2C@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:  > Roy Omond wrote: >>   >> Didier Morandi wrote: >>   >> > within EDT: >> >^ >> > PF1 27 (numeric in main keyboard) PF1 3 (on numeric keyboard, which is "special insert"). >>  & >> Even easier, just hit Escape twice. >  > on a VT100 ? >    CTRL/[ __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 19:23:34 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Escape Sequences ' Message-ID: <3D724D16.3DB23F2C@Free.fr>    Roy Omond wrote: >  > Didier Morandi wrote:  >  > > within EDT:  > > ] > > PF1 27 (numeric in main keyboard) PF1 3 (on numeric keyboard, which is "special insert").  > % > Even easier, just hit Escape twice.    on a VT100 ?   :-)    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 19:24:05 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Escape Sequences ' Message-ID: <3D724D35.43B93D2E@Free.fr>    Merci !    D.   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > 0 > Didier Morandi (Didier.Morandi@Free.fr) wrote: > > $ esc[0,8] = 27 ' > > $! or CSI = 255 (CSI = <ESC> + "[")  > # > Small correction: csi[0,8] = 155.    ------------------------------    Date: 01 Sep 2002 15:03:18 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap- Message-ID: <87r8gew5s9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:   D > I have long thought that one of the reasons for the success of theE > Macintosh and the languishing of Windows 1 and 2 was that there was D > no shipping product using the Motorola 68000 with a character cellE > interface, so no one knew at a gut level how much compute power was F > being soaked up by Apple's Mac GUI, but everyone knew right away how > much Windows was consuming.    G And what of the small herd of 68K unix and other systems that seemingly < every man and his dog was peddeling? Or the original Apollo.  1 (Yeah, the dog did a better job in many cases...)    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Sun, 01 Sep 02 10:35:34 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com N Subject: Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly)+ Message-ID: <aksund$6dt$2@bob.news.rcn.net>   = In article <bf5c9.66913$kp.721815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, 5    "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:  > + >"H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message + >news:Ju4c9.139$hf3.1535@typhoon.bart.nl... K >> I was sorry to read that text. Mr Shannon within 2 minutes you modified,  >by E >> your own words and typing skill, yourourself from an independent,   skilled J >> writer about VMS into something that I've difficulties with describing  in >a >> foreign language. > J >Understood. My Dutch is absolutelty atrocious. But you seem to be able to1 >express yourself quite well in American English.0 >lF >> Your credibility is lost to me, not for your skills but the kind of	 >repsonseJ
 >> you wrote.U. >> I don't mind missing you in this newsgroup. >> >sJ >Likewise. I have a pair of hip boots, but the BS has gotten too deep evenJ >for those. The technical value of this group has diminished dramatically  inK >the past year, which is sad. The group is now laden with trolls.. I refuse H >to put up with claims of plagariasm and worse from folks who are not HP3 >customers and have no vested interest in VMS, etc.W  ? Not only is the last phrase of the last sentence arrogant, it'so downright idiotic. /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:04:56 +01004 From: "Nicholas Pryor" <nick.pryor@blueyonder.co.uk>N Subject: Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly): Message-ID: <fhoc9.5098$rw.3027@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message7 news:bf5c9.66913$kp.721815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...n >s, > "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message, > news:Ju4c9.139$hf3.1535@typhoon.bart.nl...L > > I was sorry to read that text. Mr Shannon within 2 minutes you modified, > byE > > your own words and typing skill, yourourself from an independent,- skilled-J > > writer about VMS into something that I've difficulties with describing in > a: > > foreign language.i >2K > Understood. My Dutch is absolutelty atrocious. But you seem to be able to 2 > express yourself quite well in American English. > l G > > Your credibility is lost to me, not for your skills but the kind of 
 > repsonse > > you wrote./ > > I don't mind missing you in this newsgroup.0 > >m >pK > Likewise. I have a pair of hip boots, but the BS has gotten too deep evengJ > for those. The technical value of this group has diminished dramatically inL > the past year, which is sad. The group is now laden with trolls.. I refuseI > to put up with claims of plagariasm and worse from folks who are not HP-4 > customers and have no vested interest in VMS, etc. >64 > Fortunately there are alternative sources of news. >a > Have a good one! >9 >1  J Nobody is asking you to read this ng. If you don't like what you read thenK go and don't post. I would rather not waste my bandwidth d/l pointless crap. from you   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:16:37 +0200$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>> Subject: re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application* Message-ID: <00A13531.8052F7B4.1@decus.de>   Oscar van Eijk wrote:t   > [...]? >   J > It's been a while since this group heard from me, but I finally releasedI > a new version of OMI, the menu interpreter that makes building menus asu > easy as using them!  >   J > It's an application completely written in DCL. Here's a list of the most > important features:  >    > [...]  >   K > OMI is well documented with a 98 pages document in A4 format or 108 pages  > in letter format.o >   . > Have a look at http://freeware.oveas.com/omi! > Suggestions are always welcome!c  F The documentation claims to be in PDF format but obviously has a ".gz"O extension. Can you please make this available in "pure PDF" because downloadingeD what seems to be a compressed file format is not allowed everywhere.   Michaelm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:45:38 +0200& From: Oscar van Eijk <oscar@oveas.com>> Subject: Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application5 Message-ID: <20020901154538.19b4c3ba.oscar@oveas.com>    > H > The documentation claims to be in PDF format but obviously has a ".gz"Q > extension. Can you please make this available in "pure PDF" because downloadingrF > what seems to be a compressed file format is not allowed everywhere.     Done. The page is not updated yet, but I just uploaded the uncompressed PDFs; you can find them in ftp://ftp.oveas.com/pub/omi.   4 The site will be updated with this new link as well. Oscara   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:12:10 +0200& From: Oscar van Eijk <oscar@oveas.com>> Subject: Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application5 Message-ID: <20020901161210.67dec8cb.oscar@oveas.com>n  " On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:16:10 -04003 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:t  F > In article <20020829144629.5d576847.oscar@oveas.com>, Oscar van Eijk > <oscar@oveas.com> wrote: > 
 > >Hi All, > >hK > >It's been a while since this group heard from me, but I finally releasedrI > a new version of OMI, the menu interpreter that makes building menus asd > easy as using them!  > L > >OMI is well documented with a 98 pages document in A4 format or 108 pages > in letter format.  > > / > >Have a look at http://freeware.oveas.com/omi " > >Suggestions are always welcome! > M > Thanks for posting the URL.  I will try OMI when I have a few spare cycles.  > G > I had some trouble with the web page.  My preferred browser sometimesdL > disklikes frames; maybe that was the cause.  But I always feed troublesome > pages to an html validator:o >    http://validator.w3.org/  > K > Your page is unusually good in that the validator attempts to validate it 6 > instead of giving up.  Still it reports some errors.     Thanks for telling me. The site is quite new, and all these remarks will be used to improve it. By the time the English translatio of the site appears (currently only the freeware pages are in English), the Noframes site should be available as wel...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 06:33:50 GMTf1 From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@Julian5Locals.com>h& Subject: Re: Old games for VAX system.B Message-ID: <ixic9.117$6i4.13153@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   Paul Winalski wrote:  F > Remember it??  I ported Adventure (original point system) to VAX/VMS   From?   F > back in 1978, while working at one of the 11-780 hardware field test > sites.   -- M C.W.Holeman II cwhii5@Julian5Locals.com remove the fives http://also.as/cwhii   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 05:05:49 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?C Message-ID: <Nehc9.327209$m91.13349677@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>>  2 "Tom Crabtre" <tccrab@sunset.net> wrote in message$ news:3D718EC3.C1579C10@sunset.net...F > Actually, I'm sick of people who just complain how Compaq and now HP screwede > them.m@ > If DEC had such a good thing, Bill Gates would have bought it.& > It's not like he couldn't afford it.- > Since he didn't it means one of two things:,1 > 1. He was smarter than you give him credit for.<9 > 2. Ken was so short sighted he couldn't see the future.s  K Ah, Grasshopper.  Your problem is in failing to understand what you see andeI hear.  And your 'logic' above is not only faulty but irrelevant, since iftD people didn't *believe* that their platform was worth worrying aboutL (regardless of what you may think of its worth) they'd just immediately moveJ to another without bothering to wave good-bye let alone discuss things for over a year.  E As for the observations and discussions that you seem to confuse withiI 'complaints', most are not so much about anyone getting screwed (at least.I not immediately) as about how cHumPaq screwed *up* and what, if anything,  should be done about it.  L In killing Alpha cHumPaq acted stupidly, since Alpha had major potential forA generating profit.  Question:  what do you do when your vendor isc demonstrably incompetent?   G In killing Alpha cHumPaq acted unethically, since it had made repeated,dK solemn, public, unequivocal commitments to Alpha's future through EV8, EV9,eI and EV10 (and more nebulous commitments to a 25-year lifetime) - right uprF until the date it broke them without any consultation with, or hint ofK apology to, those to whom it had made those commitments, nor any compelling.L reason that might excuse such behavior.  Question:  what do you do when your! vendor is demonstrably unethical?a  F In explaining why it killed Alpha cHumPaq lied about Alpha's potentialI future performance compared with the Itanic alternative, about where this I misinformation came from, and about Alpha's current (let alone potential)tL profitability.  Question:  what do you do when your vendor demonstrably (and repeatedly) lies to you?  I Since killing Alpha cHumPaq has done nothing to attempt to compensate forEK the decidedly chilling effect that being available only on a declared-dying K platform (with a future dependent on a yet-to-be-accepted platform) has had I on perceived VMS viability, both in the existing customer base and in the>J market at large.  Question:  what do you do when your vendor exhibits zeroH interest in (let alone any real 'commitment' to) the platform you depend upon?e  J For some people, the answer is that you just accept it, hope for the best,K and defend your vendor (because it's the only one you've got, regardless ofbI how incompetent and sleazy it may be).  For others the answer is that you K accept it and hope for the best (because you don't see any alternative) butpH stop short of becoming an active accessory to such behavior.  Yet othersL don't accept the behavior but don't get actively involved either, because itK may be professionally awkward (they're the people from whom I get "me, too"mG emails that include a request not to quote them - and I appreciate that I support and recognize why they're reticent to go public).  A fourth group F just get disgusted and leave, without wasting their time and energy inL extensive comment about a vendor they will no longer be worrying about.  AndJ finally there are those who don't accept the behavior and decide to try toJ do something to fix the problems that caused it, because they fear that ifL they don't VMS will very likely go the way of Alpha, and with equally littleJ warning - or simply because they feel that corporations that act like thisE should be horse-whipped until the lesson sticks, for the public good.p  F The tension here is between the first group (plus those in more activeK collusion with cHumPaq) and the last group, but is obviously of interest to H at least some people in most of the other groups as well, even if not to you.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 14:50:29 GMTo& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?- Message-ID: <akt9fl$9ln@web.eng.baileynm.com>:  @ In article <tGec9.63867$On.3196662@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:b5 > "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagee) > news:akrrcn$cjj@web.eng.baileynm.com...s2 > > In article <ujTb9.236506$me6.32409@sccrnsc01>,4 > > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:J > > > www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather > from > > > non-customer trolls.  N > > Terry, neither you nor Bill have enough credibility left to be spending it > > this profligately.  N > I encourage you to be specific about anything I've said that you do not feelN > is credible, since I do make significant attempts to be accurate and usually* > have references available to back it up.  I It's not the content, it's the tone. I'm awfully tempted to just killfilecE the both of you. I don't killfile you because you *do* provide usefulsF information, and I don't killfile Terry because, well, I'll think of a reason.w   -- tO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs-O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`a   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 14:55:16 GMTn& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?- Message-ID: <akt9ok$9ut@web.eng.baileynm.com>t  ' In article <3D719AE3.1F24F60A@fsi.net>,b0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:F > If he is as smart as some folks (including him) like to think he is,D > he'd have dropped Windows like a hot potato by now and the world'sF > servers would be running his GUI on top of VMS instead of Micro$hit.  L His goals are different. He's not interested in producing the best software,K he's interested in control. He couldn't control Xenix, so he dropped it. HerF couldn't control OS/2, so he dropped it. He wouldn't have been able toH control VMS, so he hired the people at DEC he figured he needed to buildI a better VMS with an API that's not publicly specified or even documenteds# anywhere, to run Windows on top of.   I The fact that this inherently makes it worse than VMS is irrelevant: it'shJ more imprtant that he control it than that it be the best. That's the core of his marketing strategy.   --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AlleL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`r   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 14:51:26 GMTi& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?- Message-ID: <akt9he$9o7@web.eng.baileynm.com>u  * In article <3D718EC3.C1579C10@sunset.net>,' Tom Crabtre  <tccrab@sunset.net> wrote::N > Actually, I'm sick of people who just complain how Compaq and now HP screwed > them. @ > If DEC had such a good thing, Bill Gates would have bought it.  
 Didn't he?   -- aO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofsjO of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All-L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`D   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:47:32 +0000 (UTC)  From: mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalidJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?* Message-ID: <aktcqk$k9e$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>  @ In comp.sys.dec Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: : Check outp  K : www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather fromD : non-customer trolls.   : -- : Terry C. Shannon- : Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows HPCe: : Director, Technical Communications, Science Medicus Inc.' : Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.o : terryshannon@attbi.com : http://www.openvms.org  0 Bill really starting to get to you is he, Terry?6 Am I a non-customer troll because I'm a mere hobbyist?  N As a relative spring chicken amongst you VMS Cockrels, it certainly amazes me L that everyone still seems to have this head in the sand, "she'll be apples" $ attitude towards their favourite OS.  H Its got almost zero mindshare out there in the real world - I work for aK large (for my town) system integrator, which is Australia-wide & we have no  demand at all for VMS work. K I think one contractor and myself are the only two people in the 300-strong H organisation who even use VMS & we're certainly not making any money for the company in that regard. F I've got exactly one Tru64 site & we sell a shipload of cHumPaq Wintel boxen.  No VMS.-  H It really makes me sad to Digital/Compaq and HP buggering their existingH customers roughly & expending no effort on promoting their premier OS to2 a new breed of programmers and system integrators.  I The whining won't stop until HP extract their digits and start using themn@ to promote, improve and expand VMS to new markets and new users.   D. --  % " I don't get mad.... I get stabby. "o - William "Fat Tony" Williams.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 08:19:21 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)* Subject: Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question; Message-ID: <3d71b169.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   $ John Vottero (John@mvpsi.com) wrote:M > As long as you're using private IP addresses, you can make your life easier K > by picking non-CIDR addresses.  For example, use a range from the privatefJ > class C range of 192.168.*.*.  A class C address has a natural subnet ofK > 255.255.255.0.  Use the 3rd byte to identify the network and the 4th byte, > for the node in the network.  > FYI, there are private addresses in each of the three classes.E 10.x.x.x is a private network, with the natural netmask of 255.0.0.0.n* As are 172.0.x.x to 172.31.x.x in class B.  6 I second your advice about using the natural netmasks.   cu,s   Martin -- sD                     | Martin Vorlaender    |    VMS & WNT programmer-   Smiert Spamionem  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deBD                     |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/4                     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 18:25:52 +1000+ From: "Strider" <iamnotstrider@hotmail.com>t3 Subject: v7.3 - mscp_serve_all = 9 serves hsg disksb< Message-ID: <3d71cf35$0$29911$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>  	 Hi y'all,s  6 I've set up a v7.3 system and set mscp_serve_all to 9. Alloclass is 2.eJ The HSG80 disks are obviously $1$dgaxxx. I don't want to serve them to the cluster.L Setting bit 3 is supposed to achieve this, but "show dev/full $1$dka2" still+ reports "served to cluster via MSCP Server"o  
 Any ideas?   Cheers Striderl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 16:29:35 GMTc1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e7 Subject: Re: v7.3 - mscp_serve_all = 9 serves hsg diskso' Message-ID: <3D7245A9.58D1B3BD@fsi.net>l   Strider wrote: >  > Hi y'all,o > 8 > I've set up a v7.3 system and set mscp_serve_all to 9. > Alloclass is 2. L > The HSG80 disks are obviously $1$dgaxxx. I don't want to serve them to the
 > cluster.N > Setting bit 3 is supposed to achieve this, but "show dev/full $1$dka2" still- > reports "served to cluster via MSCP Server"m >  > Any ideas?  G If you re-check the documentation, you find that this is the documented  behavior. See this URL:p  @ http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6048/6048pro_089.html  - ...and locate the section on MSCP_SERVE_ALL. l  G I believe the value you may want is 2, serve only local disks. Even the F V7.1-2 SYSMAN on-line HELP for PARAMETERS PARAMETERS agrees with this.   -- a David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 08:05:50 -05002 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> Subject: Re: VMS for i86/ Message-ID: <un445fhk63kbfc@corp.supernews.com>    Praxi,  L Another suggestion: a free account on a VMS box open to public access on theL Internet. You might see http://vmsbox.cjb.net/vms-accounts.html for details.  5 There are other free sites - see the OpenVMS webring.tG http://i.webring.com/hub?ring=openvms Warning - accessing the ring will.D bring up a bunch of danged POPUP windows (they don't try to take the- computer over or anything, just advertising).    Regards  Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT neti  9 "Carlos de Paula" <depaula@praxitek.com> wrote in message 7 news:672067e5.0208302257.6865da60@posting.google.com...p? > Does anybody know if there is a VMS (small version) for InteltE > plataforms. I would like to play with it. Where can I get a copy ofh > it?  >- > Thank you, >- > Praxi    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 15:56:44 +0200o From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: VMS for i864 Message-ID: <tXoc9.33657$C26.2986402@zwoll1.home.nl>   Carlos de Paula wrote:? > Does anybody know if there is a VMS (small version) for Intel E > plataforms. I would like to play with it. Where can I get a copy ofo > it?n >  > Thank you, >  > Praxis  N The Charon emulator seems to be very good. It emulates a Vax processor (incl. N boot process etc.). On that you can run any Vax VMS version that is supported E for the type of Vax that is emulated (depends on the Charon version).   M Since it is a processor emulator, it is not blazingly fast of course, so the   faster your pc...k  Q Furthermore Alpha VMS differs a bit from Vax VMS. Not in general appearance, but eN the features and some of the commands are not 100% the same. But that doesn't ' really matter for a first time try out.b  Q There used to be a freeware version of Charon, but I don't know if you can still a get it.k  N The biggest problem you may encounter is to get a set of Vax VMS cd's. If you Q join Decus or whatever the Digital/Compaq/HP user organization is called in your tQ country, you can get hobbiest licenses and a CD with a lot of VMS software for a d
 small fee.   Good luck with your try out !!   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.482 ************************