1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 02 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 483       Contents:/ A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60 
 Alpha vs Vax? 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm < Re: Anyone else noticed the Microsoft ad that calls VMS Unix! Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK % Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK $ DECC RTL Migration - Advice Required3 Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax 7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax % Maybe it's SAS v8.2 for alpha VMS bug  Re: Old games for VAX system.  Re: Old games for VAX system.  One Minute Cron " Re: OpenOffice ODBC and Oracle Rdb" Re: OpenOffice ODBC and Oracle Rdb9 Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...) A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? ! Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question . Re: v7.3 - mscp_serve_all = 9 serves hsg disks. Re: v7.3 - mscp_serve_all = 9 serves hsg disks Re: VMS for i86  Re: VMS performance software  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 20:52:25 GMT * From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>8 Subject: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60- Message-ID: <d6vc9.160697$aA.33262@sccrnsc02>   D We have a 4000/60 at work with 32megs of ram that I was going to getC cheaply.  No hard drive, but it looks like a good buy at 25 bucks:P   L Anyway there is a Vt320 terminal with it, should I buy that?  I don't have a	 keyboard.   L Also, while eveyone knows they are sold out of the OpenVMS VAX, why isn't itL distrubuted on ISO?  I mean if you have to have a licence key for it anyway?  ? Also is a 4000/60 anygood?  Should I looke for an Alpha system?   I If worst to worst, can I just plug this thing into the serial port in the  back of my 98 box?   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 16:07:58 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/603 Message-ID: <RD7vky6xI7SQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <d6vc9.160697$aA.33262@sccrnsc02>, "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes:  N > Also, while eveyone knows they are sold out of the OpenVMS VAX, why isn't itN > distrubuted on ISO?  I mean if you have to have a licence key for it anyway?  J VMS only boots from an ODS volume.  The price of pressing an ISO9660 disc,< however, is no different from that for pressing an ODS disc.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 16:14:42 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/603 Message-ID: <szxcy2SM4cwY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <d6vc9.160697$aA.33262@sccrnsc02>, "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes:F > We have a 4000/60 at work with 32megs of ram that I was going to getE > cheaply.  No hard drive, but it looks like a good buy at 25 bucks:P  > N > Anyway there is a Vt320 terminal with it, should I buy that?  I don't have a > keyboard.  > N > Also, while eveyone knows they are sold out of the OpenVMS VAX, why isn't itN > distrubuted on ISO?  I mean if you have to have a licence key for it anyway? > A > Also is a 4000/60 anygood?  Should I looke for an Alpha system?   C Unless you feel a compelling need for Alpha, $25 sounds like a good C price for getting started.  You might have to stop back here to get   hints on compatible hard drives.  K > If worst to worst, can I just plug this thing into the serial port in the  > back of my 98 box?  A 	1. You might have to use a reversing adapter on the serial line.   B 	2. Do _NOT_ think that Microsoft's terminal emulator is any good.A 	   It will probably do command line operations correctly, but if A 	   you use a program like Notes that needs to control the screen @ 	   with escape sequences you will find out how poorly Microsoft? 	   did.  At the US DECUS conferences where they provide public @ 	   Microsoft machines for connecting to the Internet, they have. 	   to add in a third party terminal emulator.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 21:16:18 GMT * From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>< Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60. Message-ID: <Csvc9.264793$me6.32637@sccrnsc01>  G Yea, but still, I have seen some information on how to burn a VMS CD in + linux, or atleast how to mount and read it.   B I would think somone out there would have a FAQ or a way to do it.: "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:RD7vky6xI7SQ@eisner.encompasserve.org... 8 In article <d6vc9.160697$aA.33262@sccrnsc02>, "WarlockD"! <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes:   K > Also, while eveyone knows they are sold out of the OpenVMS VAX, why isn't  itF > distrubuted on ISO?  I mean if you have to have a licence key for it anyway?   J VMS only boots from an ODS volume.  The price of pressing an ISO9660 disc,< however, is no different from that for pressing an ODS disc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 23:17:50 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> < Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60' Message-ID: <3D7283FE.12F491A1@aaa.com>    WarlockD wrote:  > F > We have a 4000/60 at work with 32megs of ram that I was going to getE > cheaply.  No hard drive, but it looks like a good buy at 25 bucks:P  > N > Anyway there is a Vt320 terminal with it, should I buy that?  I don't have a > keyboard.   F If you have got PC, you can just as well use a VT-emulator. You'll get1 more features such as saving you session on file.    Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 21:22:00 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>< Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/606 Message-ID: <20020901212200.16764.qmail@nym.alias.net>  @ On Sun, 01 Sep 2002, "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> wrote:E >We have a 4000/60 at work with 32megs of ram that I was going to get D >cheaply.  No hard drive, but it looks like a good buy at 25 bucks:P > M >Anyway there is a Vt320 terminal with it, should I buy that?  I don't have a 
 >keyboard. > M >Also, while eveyone knows they are sold out of the OpenVMS VAX, why isn't it M >distrubuted on ISO?  I mean if you have to have a licence key for it anyway?  > @ >Also is a 4000/60 anygood?  Should I looke for an Alpha system? > J >If worst to worst, can I just plug this thing into the serial port in the >back of my 98 box?   B Excuse me if you've got it sorted out, but you have joined up withK Encompass? http://www.encompassus.org/. The free membership is all you need E to be entitled to the licenses, and I'd hate to see someone get a bad F initial impression because they had the software and not the licenses.  J Does your work have an old copy of media you could perhaps borrow? It willH probably be worth just getting by with something like that until you canK buy the latest release. There has been discussion about ISO distribution of I the OS in the newsgroup fairly recently, you might want to take a look at  that.   I Regarding the VT320, they're pretty good terminals, and it will plug into J other machines. I use a VT520 as the terminal on my 2100 Alpha. I could'veE had a monitor, mouse, and keyboard, but a box the size of a fridge is 6 hardly something you want to use as a workstation. :-)  K As to the 4000/60, I couldn't even tell you if that's a valid model number, E but someone here will be able to tell you more about it than you ever  thought you'd want to know.   H As to the price... Will 25 bucks buy you a good night out? Dunno. But ifK you can get the bits you need, I'd hope it would buy you a few (read: a lot  of) interesting nights in.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 21:22:27 GMT / From: itsy bitsy meowbot <53ab2750@meowing.net> < Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/606 Message-ID: <nyvc9.6122$Z_5.5719@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>   WarlockD wrote: F > We have a 4000/60 at work with 32megs of ram that I was going to getE > cheaply.  No hard drive, but it looks like a good buy at 25 bucks:P  > N > Anyway there is a Vt320 terminal with it, should I buy that?  I don't have a > keyboard.   ? You need the keyboard =)   If you want a real VT, try to find a C copmlete one.  They're not hard to find, and often free if you look 
 around a bit.   E > Also, while eveyone knows they are sold out of the OpenVMS VAX, why D > isn't it distrubuted on ISO?  I mean if you have to have a licence > key for it anyway?  G See http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html - new VAX distributions  are supposed to be on the way.   > Also is a 4000/60 anygood?  ' Sure.  It's reasonably peppy for a VAX.   % > Should I looke for an Alpha system?   + You might have trouble matching that $25...   K > If worst to worst, can I just plug this thing into the serial port in the  > back of my 98 box?  C Sure, but don't waste your time with the silly Hyperterinal program / that comes with Windows.  Kermit would be good.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 21:45:35 GMT * From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>< Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60- Message-ID: <3Uvc9.161283$aA.33246@sccrnsc02>   2 Heh not that stupid in trust microsofts terminals.  L I deal in geting stuff that no one has a clue, researching it, pluging it inK for a text dump and putting it on ebay (We got like 5 cards that turned out H to be PDP-11 Qbus processor cards, very proud as we found it in a bin ofL scrap electronics).  So I know the horable time I have with telent and such.  L Heck, I wrote a serial/telent program that allows me to turn on strict VT100: compatably or not:P  Terminal emulation isn't the problem.  J Humm.  We do have these addapters that look like a phone cord with the tab: wrong, to what looks like a serial connection, is that it?: "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:szxcy2SM4cwY@eisner.encompasserve.org... 8 In article <d6vc9.160697$aA.33262@sccrnsc02>, "WarlockD"! <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes: F > We have a 4000/60 at work with 32megs of ram that I was going to getE > cheaply.  No hard drive, but it looks like a good buy at 25 bucks:P  > L > Anyway there is a Vt320 terminal with it, should I buy that?  I don't have a  > keyboard.  > K > Also, while eveyone knows they are sold out of the OpenVMS VAX, why isn't  itF > distrubuted on ISO?  I mean if you have to have a licence key for it anyway?  > A > Also is a 4000/60 anygood?  Should I looke for an Alpha system?   C Unless you feel a compelling need for Alpha, $25 sounds like a good C price for getting started.  You might have to stop back here to get   hints on compatible hard drives.  K > If worst to worst, can I just plug this thing into the serial port in the  > back of my 98 box?  @ 1. You might have to use a reversing adapter on the serial line.  A 2. Do _NOT_ think that Microsoft's terminal emulator is any good. @    It will probably do command line operations correctly, but if@    you use a program like Notes that needs to control the screen?    with escape sequences you will find out how poorly Microsoft >    did.  At the US DECUS conferences where they provide public?    Microsoft machines for connecting to the Internet, they have -    to add in a third party terminal emulator.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 21:48:37 GMT * From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>< Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60. Message-ID: <VWvc9.323450$UU1.55422@sccrnsc03>  I Yea I called them.  Believe it or not we live in the same metroplex, so I @ just need to do a simple 15 min drive to pick it up.  Lucky huh?  = Though, they won't have any till the beginning of September:P   I Humm.  What about tape distributions?  I run a AS400, and its rather easy K for me to make tape images in Linux for back up, can you boot off tape?  Or H howabout off network?  I got a practaly unused Linux server just sitting here:P    < "itsy bitsy meowbot" <53ab2750@meowing.net> wrote in message0 news:nyvc9.6122$Z_5.5719@nwrddc01.gnilink.net... WarlockD wrote: F > We have a 4000/60 at work with 32megs of ram that I was going to getE > cheaply.  No hard drive, but it looks like a good buy at 25 bucks:P  > L > Anyway there is a Vt320 terminal with it, should I buy that?  I don't have a  > keyboard.   ? You need the keyboard =)   If you want a real VT, try to find a C copmlete one.  They're not hard to find, and often free if you look 
 around a bit.   E > Also, while eveyone knows they are sold out of the OpenVMS VAX, why D > isn't it distrubuted on ISO?  I mean if you have to have a licence > key for it anyway?  G See http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html - new VAX distributions  are supposed to be on the way.   > Also is a 4000/60 anygood?  ' Sure.  It's reasonably peppy for a VAX.   % > Should I looke for an Alpha system?   + You might have trouble matching that $25...   K > If worst to worst, can I just plug this thing into the serial port in the  > back of my 98 box?  C Sure, but don't waste your time with the silly Hyperterinal program / that comes with Windows.  Kermit would be good.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 17:55:06 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/603 Message-ID: <YvyAOZZFy4CC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <Csvc9.264793$me6.32637@sccrnsc01>, "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes: I > Yea, but still, I have seen some information on how to burn a VMS CD in - > linux, or atleast how to mount and read it.   I I know nothing about Linux, but a block by block CD-R copy will duplicate  a VMS disc.   H Mounting and reading it would take a considerably more complicated pieceJ of software.  Perhaps someone else will chime in with something that would do it on Linux.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 17:58:00 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/603 Message-ID: <9Pww4eJLneHw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <3Uvc9.161283$aA.33246@sccrnsc02>, "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes:  L > Humm.  We do have these addapters that look like a phone cord with the tab< > wrong, to what looks like a serial connection, is that it?  ? That sounds like the connection for the back of the VAXstation, ? and you will have to arrange something for the other end of the = cable to plug into your Windows 98 box.  But even with such a > connection, it might be necessary to revers the "transmit" and "receive" leads.  L >> If worst to worst, can I just plug this thing into the serial port in the >> back of my 98 box?  > B > 1. You might have to use a reversing adapter on the serial line. > C > 2. Do _NOT_ think that Microsoft's terminal emulator is any good.eB >    It will probably do command line operations correctly, but ifB >    you use a program like Notes that needs to control the screenA >    with escape sequences you will find out how poorly Microsoft @ >    did.  At the US DECUS conferences where they provide publicA >    Microsoft machines for connecting to the Internet, they haven/ >    to add in a third party terminal emulator.d   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 18:03:41 -0600t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen),< Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/603 Message-ID: <Bv2UBJJMCAh3@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  [ In article <VWvc9.323450$UU1.55422@sccrnsc03>, "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes:e  ? > Though, they won't have any till the beginning of September:P   1 Congratulations, that problem has been solved :-)d  K > Humm.  What about tape distributions?  I run a AS400, and its rather easyoM > for me to make tape images in Linux for back up, can you boot off tape?  OruJ > howabout off network?  I got a practaly unused Linux server just sitting > here:P  B VAX/VMS Backup will boot from tape, but you need a running VAX/VMS@ machine to make the tape.  That is where finding someone in yourA area helps.  The DFW DECUS/Encompass Local Users Group will know.r7 Montegar is run by someone who know the local contacts.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 23:44:26 GMT * From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>< Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60. Message-ID: <uDxc9.266616$me6.33047@sccrnsc01>  # So basicly use a null modem cable:)e  L Humm.  Going to have to fish around our place.  We got ALOT of old dec junk.  L Anyone know of a good terminal emulator then?  And why should I use a VT320,* or VT220?  What is so diffrent than VT100?: "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:9Pww4eJLneHw@eisner.encompasserve.org...c8 In article <3Uvc9.161283$aA.33246@sccrnsc02>, "WarlockD"! <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes:   L > Humm.  We do have these addapters that look like a phone cord with the tab< > wrong, to what looks like a serial connection, is that it?  ? That sounds like the connection for the back of the VAXstation,-? and you will have to arrange something for the other end of the0= cable to plug into your Windows 98 box.  But even with such au> connection, it might be necessary to revers the "transmit" and "receive" leads.  L >> If worst to worst, can I just plug this thing into the serial port in the >> back of my 98 box?  >hB > 1. You might have to use a reversing adapter on the serial line. >iC > 2. Do _NOT_ think that Microsoft's terminal emulator is any good.aB >    It will probably do command line operations correctly, but ifB >    you use a program like Notes that needs to control the screenA >    with escape sequences you will find out how poorly Microsoftl@ >    did.  At the US DECUS conferences where they provide publicA >    Microsoft machines for connecting to the Internet, they have-/ >    to add in a third party terminal emulator.7   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 19:25:27 -0600R- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)/< Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/603 Message-ID: <A0p2Vkh3QLfa@eisner.encompasserve.org>"  [ In article <uDxc9.266616$me6.33047@sccrnsc01>, "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> writes:V% > So basicly use a null modem cable:)I > N > Humm.  Going to have to fish around our place.  We got ALOT of old dec junk. > N > Anyone know of a good terminal emulator then?  And why should I use a VT320,, > or VT220?  What is so diffrent than VT100?  E VT100s, VT220s and VT320s all work fine.  Microsoft emulators do not.@   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 04:06:41 GMTo* From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> Subject: Alpha vs Vax?. Message-ID: <ltBc9.327239$UU1.56100@sccrnsc03>  K Wow, I just found out the dec we have is a 3000/240 is an alpha system.  We  also have two 3000/120's  H Should I get the alpha or the Vax?  Can I tell the diffrence in speed or preformance in VMS?n   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 13:24:35 -0700a. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: am/pm= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209011224.204bb9cc@posting.google.com>a  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3D71696E.4048BB6B@aaa.com>...u > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > e > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D710A74.F403E3E0@videotron.ca>...  > > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:L > > > > Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing about whether am/pm is better orM > > > > worse than the 24-hour system. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.  > > > P > > > pardon my ignorance, but what is the weakness of the 24 hour time format ? > >  > > Here are three!: > > F > > 1.) It's much easier to read a 12-hour analog clock than a 24-hour > > analog clock.i    F First of all, I wish to say that you have read much into my posts that$ I never said. Please read carefully.    F > And what does the 12-hour *analog* clock have to do with the 24-hour > *digital* one ?t    6 Nothing. I never said that it did. What's your point?   C My point is that if you, for whatever reason, wish to use an anologeF clock, it is much easier to read a 12-hour version. That's all. That'sF a disadvantage. If you don't wish to make analog clocks, then for you,? it's an irrelevant disadvantage. But it's still a disadvantage.e     > Who are you ?o    4 Alan E. Feldman. Gee, how dare I question something!    ) > Do you realy think that the rest of thehF > world, who use a 24h clock, realy use analog clocks/watches that use. > 1-24 ? So your first point must be a joke...    C I don't know what the rest of the world uses for 24 hour time. That"D wasn't the question. The question was "What are the disadvantages ofB the 24-hour system?" and I was simply answering that. In fact, youF actually quoted the question in your post and you can see it re-quoted9 in this one! Yet it appears you didn't bother to read it.O  F I never said the 24-hour system was inferior to the 12-hour system. Go@ back and read my previous posts. I said that each system has itsD strengths and weaknesses. Someone asked what the weaknesses were forE the 24-hour system and I simply answered. That in no way implies thatDE I am saying it is inferior. If someone asks what the disadvantages of0C the am/pm system are, I will list those, too.  Please read my postso more carefully.i    H > > 2.) In the U.S., you'll make a lot more money selling 12-hour clocksE > > (with the de facto convention for am/pm, of course) than you willvJ > > selling 24-hour clocks. Similarly, you'll get less confusion and fewerH > > complaints publishiing times in the am/pm system than in the 24-hour7 > > system. Doesn't matter. I can handle either system.r > D > Almost every new digital clock has a switch to select am/pm or 24h > *display*, no problem. d    C Maybe in your country, but I have yet to see a single such clock inSA the U.S. My point still stands. If you make a 24-hour-system-onlyaB clock, and try to sell it in the U.S., good luck. You'll go broke.    0 > And, besides, *ALL* clock or other timekeepingC > systems in the known would uses a day devided into 24 hours. It's D > just a matter of displaying it, and it's, of course, far easier to2 > display the time *as-it-is* without any rewrite.    E Depends on your clock and what you mean by "displaying it". An anologwD clock displays the time via the positions of its hands. Writing downA the time using numerals requires a conversion with either system.e  A Please stop accusing me of things I never said. If you prefer thesC 24-hour system, fine. I don't really care. As for myself, I greatlysE prefer the 24-hour system on computers, but elsewhere, I don't reallyiC care that much. I can handle either system. The am/pm system is notc= that hard, but do I find it to be a super pain in the butt ono/ computers. (I set my PC's to use 24-hour time.)r    B And just because a system is superior, that doesn't mean it has no< disadvantages. For example, CD's are superior to LP's. But aE disadvantage of the CD format is the lack of a great 12"-square album,E cover. Another disadvantage is that you can't see where the action is'D taking place, i.e., you can see the needle slide through the groovesB on an LP, but you can't see the laser light bounce off the CD. OK?    G > Since there are realy no "12h" and "24h" clocks, we are noe left withy > your last point...    @ Most analog clocks in the U.S. are 12-hour analog clocks. Atomic/ clocks are 24-hour clocks. What are you saying?e    < > > 3.) In the 24-hour system, people say times like 0700 asJ > > "O-seven-hundred hours" for 0700. There are no hundreds in the 24-hourG > > time system, yet that is how people say such times. At least that'swI > > the impression I get from movies and press conferences. Hundred meanshF > > 100. There are no hundreds in the 24-hour time system. Hah! That'sD > > just as "inconsistent" as 12:00 pm! I can hear it now: "But it'sH > > sensible to say it that way, it is the de facto method of saying it,( > > etc." Hmm, I've heard that before!!! > @ > That's more or less only a military way of saying things. Most    D OK. I said that I was basing it on movies and press conferences. And< for those who say the time that way, my point remains valid.    G > people say "at 15 hour" or something similar. You must know very welleE > that the military uses a lot of "funny" ways to say things, just sob$ > it will be 100% clear what's ment. > 9 > How many countries in the world uses the am/pm system ?t    
 I don't know.o     > The majority ?    
 I don't know.     @ > Of course it easy to show that it would be a god thing to dropB > the am/pm thing. It's mostly a matter of calculating the cost ofB > rewriting/redesigning systems that uses am/pm display. Much like@ > switching to the metric systems, b.t.w. It's easy to show thatA > that also would be a wise thing to do, but there are some costsa" > involved and that's the problem.    D My original point only referred to whether and how one should assignF am and pm to 0000 and 1200 when you are using or have to use the am/pmE system. I never said anything about whether people should the 12-hourrF system or 24-hour system. My only strong preference in this case is in@ favor of the 24-hour system for computer clocks (which I haven't mentioned until this post).d    B Actually, my original purpose was to kill a pointless subthread. IA never expected anyone would resume discussion on this, but that'sh okay.i    t > Jan-Erik Sderholm.l      Disclaimer: JMOs Alan E. Feldmanh spamsink2001 at yahoo dot comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 23:12:41 +0200t9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>s Subject: Re: am/pm' Message-ID: <3D7282C9.391034D4@aaa.com>h   Hi. Your points taken..e  E > My point is that if you, for whatever reason, wish to use an anologuA > clock, it is much easier to read a 12-hour version. That's all.h  D Well, I'm 100% sure that there have *never* been produced any analogE (the normal round type) clock/watch that have a 24h dial, even thought< there are many countries that don't use am/pm. Maybe as someB novelty article. So I can't see how this could have anything to do) with the pros and cons of the 24h system.w  E (Well, during the French revolution, there was an atempt to introduce C a day with, I think, 10 hours, each having 100 minutes, each havingkG 100 seconds. Never succeded. The are some "grandfather clocks" producedwG at that time with 10 hours dials that sels for a h-ll of a lot of moneyh on auctions today...)a   >  > > Who are you ?S > 6 > Alan E. Feldman. Gee, how dare I question something!   I'm sorry for that one...  Realy.     > + > > Do you realy think that the rest of theeH > > world, who use a 24h clock, realy use analog clocks/watches that use0 > > 1-24 ? So your first point must be a joke... > @ > I don't know what the rest of the world uses for 24 hour time.  D I think you do, all uses the same 12h dial, but you know that, don't you :-)h   > ThatF > wasn't the question. The question was "What are the disadvantages ofD > the 24-hour system?" and I was simply answering that. In fact, youH > actually quoted the question in your post and you can see it re-quoted; > in this one! Yet it appears you didn't bother to read it.  > H > I never said the 24-hour system was inferior to the 12-hour system. GoB > back and read my previous posts. I said that each system has itsF > strengths and weaknesses. Someone asked what the weaknesses were for+ > the 24-hour system and I simply answered.-    C OK. And my point was that none of your "disadvantages" was anythingoF you actualy can find in real life in those coutries *not* using am/pm.G It was just a couple of made up, hypothetical facts that has no bearinge
 in real life..  @ > If you make a 24-hour-system-only clock, and try to sell it in' > the U.S., good luck. You'll go broke..  B And I'm sure I could sell *a lot* of 24h clocks in the US, *AFTER*+ you have decided to leave the am/pm system.o  B It was impossible to sell cars with the steering-wheel to the left@ in Sweden *before* 3-Sep-1967 when Sweden switched to right side driving.7 That do not stop car dealers to sell a lot of cars with ' the steering-wheel to the left *today*.n   > 2 > > And, besides, *ALL* clock or other timekeepingE > > systems in the known would uses a day devided into 24 hours. It's F > > just a matter of displaying it, and it's, of course, far easier to4 > > display the time *as-it-is* without any rewrite. > G > Depends on your clock and what you mean by "displaying it". An anolog F > clock displays the time via the positions of its hands. Writing downC > the time using numerals requires a conversion with either system.u  E Some wrist watches have both 1-12 and 13-24 printed on the dial, and,SC if not, you probably don't need a calculator to do the "conversion"eB anyway. If you'd been teached the 24h system at school, you'd have no problem with it today.i  D Well, I'll leave it here, after all, most people on this earth don't7 even consider this year to be "2002", so why bother :-)u  E Regards (and, again, I'm sorry for the careless wording in some parts$ of my last post).t   Jan-Erik Sderholm.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 00:28:06 +0200u From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: am/pm4 Message-ID: <Rqwc9.34473$C26.3129625@zwoll1.home.nl>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:- > Hi. Your points taken..2 >  > E >>My point is that if you, for whatever reason, wish to use an anologAA >>clock, it is much easier to read a 12-hour version. That's all.Z >  > F > Well, I'm 100% sure that there have *never* been produced any analogG > (the normal round type) clock/watch that have a 24h dial, even thoughe1 > there are many countries that don't use am/pm.    P Not so I'm afraid. I have seen 24-hour analogue clocks, but they are very rare. L I think they were sometimes used by railroads to prevent calculation errors.   > Maybe as somenD > novelty article. So I can't see how this could have anything to do+ > with the pros and cons of the 24h system.  > G > (Well, during the French revolution, there was an atempt to introduce0E > a day with, I think, 10 hours, each having 100 minutes, each havinghI > 100 seconds. Never succeded. The are some "grandfather clocks" producedeI > at that time with 10 hours dials that sels for a h-ll of a lot of moneyk > on auctions today...)e >  >  >>>Who are you ? >>6 >>Alan E. Feldman. Gee, how dare I question something! >  >  > I'm sorry for that one...e > Realy. >  >  > * >>>Do you realy think that the rest of theG >>>world, who use a 24h clock, realy use analog clocks/watches that user/ >>>1-24 ? So your first point must be a joke...i >>@ >>I don't know what the rest of the world uses for 24 hour time. >  > F > I think you do, all uses the same 12h dial, but you know that, don't	 > you :-)h >  >  >>ThatF >>wasn't the question. The question was "What are the disadvantages ofD >>the 24-hour system?" and I was simply answering that. In fact, youH >>actually quoted the question in your post and you can see it re-quoted; >>in this one! Yet it appears you didn't bother to read it.o >>H >>I never said the 24-hour system was inferior to the 12-hour system. GoB >>back and read my previous posts. I said that each system has itsF >>strengths and weaknesses. Someone asked what the weaknesses were for+ >>the 24-hour system and I simply answered.  >  >  > E > OK. And my point was that none of your "disadvantages" was anythingeH > you actualy can find in real life in those coutries *not* using am/pm.I > It was just a couple of made up, hypothetical facts that has no bearing2 > in real life.e >  > @ >>If you make a 24-hour-system-only clock, and try to sell it in' >>the U.S., good luck. You'll go broke.  >  > D > And I'm sure I could sell *a lot* of 24h clocks in the US, *AFTER*- > you have decided to leave the am/pm system.  > D > It was impossible to sell cars with the steering-wheel to the leftB > in Sweden *before* 3-Sep-1967 when Sweden switched to right side
 > driving.9 > That do not stop car dealers to sell a lot of cars withr) > the steering-wheel to the left *today*.p >  > 1 >>>And, besides, *ALL* clock or other timekeepingnD >>>systems in the known would uses a day devided into 24 hours. It'sE >>>just a matter of displaying it, and it's, of course, far easier tou3 >>>display the time *as-it-is* without any rewrite.- >>G >>Depends on your clock and what you mean by "displaying it". An anologkF >>clock displays the time via the positions of its hands. Writing downC >>the time using numerals requires a conversion with either system.  >  > G > Some wrist watches have both 1-12 and 13-24 printed on the dial, and,lE > if not, you probably don't need a calculator to do the "conversion"uD > anyway. If you'd been teached the 24h system at school, you'd have > no problem with it today.a > F > Well, I'll leave it here, after all, most people on this earth don't9 > even consider this year to be "2002", so why bother :-)s > G > Regards (and, again, I'm sorry for the careless wording in some partsh > of my last post).o >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:14:59 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s Subject: Re: am/pm' Message-ID: <3D72C0D9.1857B112@fsi.net>r   Dirk Munk wrote: >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > > Hi. Your points taken..c > >  > >gG > >>My point is that if you, for whatever reason, wish to use an anologoC > >>clock, it is much easier to read a 12-hour version. That's all.  > >c > >mH > > Well, I'm 100% sure that there have *never* been produced any analogI > > (the normal round type) clock/watch that have a 24h dial, even though 2 > > there are many countries that don't use am/pm. > Q > Not so I'm afraid. I have seen 24-hour analogue clocks, but they are very rare.eN > I think they were sometimes used by railroads to prevent calculation errors.  B We still have some here in the states in data centers, air traffic9 control centers, shipping/receiving offices, and so on...    --   David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 23:22:52 -04004 From: jrlatala@shell.golden.net@ Subject: Re: am/pm+ Message-ID: <akulic$kr5$1@shell.golden.net>s  ' In article <3D7282C9.391034D4@aaa.com>,n; Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?=  <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:u >Hi. Your points taken.. >oF >> My point is that if you, for whatever reason, wish to use an anologB >> clock, it is much easier to read a 12-hour version. That's all. >WE >Well, I'm 100% sure that there have *never* been produced any analognF >(the normal round type) clock/watch that have a 24h dial, even though= >there are many countries that don't use am/pm. Maybe as somedC >novelty article. So I can't see how this could have anything to do.* >with the pros and cons of the 24h system.  H Then in this case you're wrong. The watch manufacturer Breitling makes aJ wristwatch with a 24 hour analog face. The Rolex GMT sort of does this. ItH has the usual 12 hour face with the normal hour and minute hand. It alsoI has a rotating bezel that's marked off for 24 hours. There's a third handcF that's used with the 24 hour bezel. You can leave your hour and minuteI hands at your local time then rotate the bezel to set the 24 hour time in4E some other timezone. As far as I know both of these watches are stille being made.   H I think there were some other chronographs with 24 hour faces as well. IH can picture the face but I can't place a name to it right at the moment.    -- e john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.neth   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 22:04:26 -0700 . From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: am/pm< Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209012104.3121e1c@posting.google.com>  Z Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<vKmc9.32121$C26.2928904@zwoll1.home.nl>... > Alan E. Feldman wrote:e > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D710A74.F403E3E0@videotron.ca>...u > >  > >>"Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > >>I > >>>Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing about whether am/pm is better orp                         0 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  J > >>>worse than the 24-hour system. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.#      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^k  N > >>pardon my ignorance, but what is the weakness of the 24 hour time format ? > >  > > Here are three!: > > F > > 1.) It's much easier to read a 12-hour analog clock than a 24-hour > > analog clock.  > O > True, but try getting a 24-hour analogue clock ! Even if you use the 24-hour uP > system, that doesn't mean you have a 24-hour analogue clock at home or in the 	 > office.l    A The fact that there are so few 24-hour analog clocks available isW? itself a disadvantage. With 24-hour clocks, you are pretty muchlF limited to digital. With 12-hour am/pm, you can have digital or analog@ clocks. IOW, it is because of the disadvantage of 24-hour analogD clocks being so hard to read that there are so few of them made! TheB disadvantage causes the scarcity; the scarcity does not negate the disadvantange.  C In a similar vein: There was once some experimentation in the early F days of railroads with a single rail on the ground and the second railC in the air hanging from posts. The disadvantages of this system areaD obvious, which is why you don't see any today. But the fact that you0 don't see any does not negate the disadvantages!    yH > > 2.) In the U.S., you'll make a lot more money selling 12-hour clocksE > > (with the de facto convention for am/pm, of course) than you willlJ > > selling 24-hour clocks. Similarly, you'll get less confusion and fewerH > > complaints publishiing times in the am/pm system than in the 24-hour7 > > system. Doesn't matter. I can handle either system.w > O > A decent digital clock/watch can be switched between 12 and 24-hour systems. a    @ True. But they would sell in the U.S. only becasue they have theD 12-hour am/pm system! Therefore, it is really the 12-hour am/pm thatE you are profiting from. That is a disadvantage of the 24-hour system.nA I mean, what you are saying is: "Well, look, I can make a 24-hournC digital clock, and if I add the system they like to use in the U.S.s@ (12-hour am/pm), then I can sell some there." The 24-hour system( itself won't sell any clocks in the U.S.    R > Furthermore everybody knows that 13 is more than 1, and 22 more then 10. So the 0 > 24 hour system is very logical in that sence.     E First of all, I am not saying that the am/pm system is better. I saideB that each has its strengths and weaknesses. Someone asked what the@ weaknesses are of the 24-hour system, and I simply answered thatF question. Actually, I am very glad that VMS uses 24-hour time -- am/pmC really sucks on computers. I never said otherwise. For civil use, IhB don't really care much which system is used -- I can handle either system.e  E The 24-hour system is extremely logical, mathematically sensible, ando= convenient, especially for use on computers. All I was sayingsE originally is that if you are using am/pm, for whatever reason, it is F logical, mathematically sensible, convenient, to assign pm to 1200 andD am to 0000. In fact, it is the de facto system on electronic devices that use am and pm.g  D I never said am/pm is superior to 24-hour system. I even prefaced my@ remark that there are disadvantages to the 24-hour system sayingB something very close to that (just look at the top of this post to check!).  $ > Am/pm can be confusing for people N > who are not used to that system. If a am/pm setting is necessary is certain ) > case, I often see people make mistakes.r    & People make mistakes in both systems.     < > > 3.) In the 24-hour system, people say times like 0700 asJ > > "O-seven-hundred hours" for 0700. There are no hundreds in the 24-hour8 > > time system, yet that is how people say such times.  > P > You're wrong there. In continental Europe we just say 7 o'clock or equivalent M > terms in our own language. In writing we always use the 24-hour system, in oR > speach it may depend on the language. In The Netherlands we we call 20.00 hours O > 8 o'clock with the addition 'in the evening' if necessary to be sure. German mO > television on the other hand actually talks about 22 o'clock. The British of eP > course are still firmly in the am/pm system as you may have guessed, at least  > for many public systems.    A Well, I did say that I was basing the hundred thing on movies and 5 press conferences. For those, my point remains valid.l    s > > At least that's I > > the impression I get from movies and press conferences. Hundred meanssF > > 100. There are no hundreds in the 24-hour time system. Hah! That'sD > > just as "inconsistent" as 12:00 pm! I can hear it now: "But it'sH > > sensible to say it that way, it is the de facto method of saying it,( > > etc." Hmm, I've heard that before!!!     Disclaimer: JMOa Alan E. Feldman, spamsink2001 at yahoo dot comn   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 22:33:01 -0700o. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: am/pm= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209012133.2f0563d2@posting.google.com>y  r "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<LD8c9.56750$On.2922376@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...= > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagen9 > news:b096a4ee.0208310936.4aaabef5@posting.google.com...  >  > ...  >  > > I just find it odd that so= > > many people object to the de facto, sensible, convenient,h; > > mathematically-based, logical, new convention for am/pms > F > That could be because it's a 'new convention' only in your own mind.    B Not true. It is the de facto system in all digital clocks that useF am/pm. So it must also be in the minds of the designers and the users.B Check your VCR, your clock radio, your microwave. They all use the4 "new convention". So it's hardly limited to my mind.  F Furthermore, the convention I outlined is so logical, so natural, that@ it practically forces its use upon us. You'd have to go to extra* trouble to use any other am/pm convention.    J > 'Conventions' do refer to accepted practice, you know, and this practiceN > appears to have at least a significant degree of lack of acceptance (both byK > your own words above, and by your reference to the lack of substantiationh. > for it in the dictionary you chose to cite).    E I was using the word "convention" in the sense of "a convention", noteD "the convention". If you object to such use of the word, then please@ substitute "way of doing things" for "convention" and re-read my posts.  D As to lack of acceptance, it's not my fault that Merriram Webster isB behind the times. I'm sure cache was in use for quite a while as a4 computer term before it made it into the dictionary.  F And it is time to allow the words am and pm to evolve a new definition= -- the one I have already described in detail. I have made an D excellent case in favor of that in related posts. I have also made a@ case against the literal interpretaion of ante meridiem and post@ meridiem, which, in brief, rests on the fact that the sun rarelyD crosses the meridian at 12:00 standard time. These archaic, obsolete@ definitions make sense only for local solar time. And we live byD standard time, not local solar time. The two are very different in a6 number of ways. I recently posted that in more detail.  C The meter used to be defined as 1/10,000,000th of the distance fromu? the North Pole to the equator. Well, that proved to be somewhatsA inconvenient, so a platinum-iridium bar was fashioned and had twomD marks on it which then became the new standard. Then, for reasons ofC accuracy, it was redefined to be a certain number of wavelengths ofoB light from a krypton-86 laser. That has since been replaced by theB distance light travels in vacuo in 1/299792458 of a second[1], theB second being defined in terms of a certain hyperfine transition in Cesium-133[2].  8 Refs.:  [1] http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/meter.html9         [2] http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/second.htmly  D So the meter has evolved over the years. And because of the de facto? use of the "new" am/pm "convention", or way of doing things, in F digital clocks, am/pm has evolved also, whether "authorites" recognizeD that fact or not. And the fact that this "way of doing things" is so> universally used in digital clocks, makes it "the convention".  D "Authorities" once told us the earth was flat, was the center of theB universe about which all else revolved. So I feel there is nothingC wrong with questioning them. If no one ever questioned authorities,a& we'd still be living in the Dark Ages.   Disclaimer: JMO  Alan E. Feldman  spamsink2001 at yahoo dot comh   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:25:08 -0400, From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>E Subject: Re: Anyone else noticed the Microsoft ad that calls VMS Unixt, Message-ID: <akuesi02m1c@enews2.newsguy.com>  L A couple of months ago there was an item on E-Bay for "Compaq OpenVMS Unix".- It looked like a VMS CD-ROM distribution kit.e   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 11:48:53 -0700 ) From: christian@karg.org (Christian Karg)r* Subject: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK= Message-ID: <7b342c68.0209011048.2d876e3c@posting.google.com>   F I just acquired my first VAX (a MV4000) on eBay, and am keen to get itF up and running. I've joined Encompass, but the OpenVMS VAX hobbyist CD+ appears to be unavailable. Can anyone help?i  
 Best Regards, 	 Christiani P.S. I'm based in the UK.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:30:53 GMT11 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>0. Subject: Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK& Message-ID: <3D72C494.F405551@fsi.net>   Christian Karg wrote:i > H > I just acquired my first VAX (a MV4000) on eBay, and am keen to get itH > up and running. I've joined Encompass, but the OpenVMS VAX hobbyist CD- > appears to be unavailable. Can anyone help?   A I'm hestitant to try sending software out of the U.S. without the.& appropriate expport permits and such.   F You may do well to wait until DFWCUG has the new batch of CDs ready. IF hear this should be done circa. HPETS-2002, maybe shortly after. Check with them to verify.   -- a David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 18:26:06 GMT 3 From: "Jefferson Humber" <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk> - Subject: DECC RTL Migration - Advice Required C Message-ID: <1Zsc9.343910$2p2.14522198@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>e  K Am currently experimenting with linking our application to the DECC RTL, ita$ currently links to the old VAXC RTL.  E Everything has gone well so far except for 4 .EXE's which I am havingr trouble building.   H These four executables link with some other library files (Supplied manyK moons ago by 3rd party vendor (1993'ish), and we don't have the source code J for these), which I suspect were built using the VAXC Compiler and we have$ always linked these to the VAXC RTL.  : Am getting the following messages just trying to link with
 the DECC RTL.e  *     %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 3 undefined symbols:"     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         PRINTF"     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         STRLEN#     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         STRNCMP :     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMH$FIXEDQ_UR (Weak Reference):     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMH$FIXEDQ_UW (Weak Reference)A     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMHDEB$TRACE_FREE_VM (Weak Reference)eE     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMHDEB$TRACE_FREE_VMLIST (Weak Reference)l@     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMHDEB$TRACE_GET_VM (Weak Reference)A     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMHDEB$TRACE_RET_VMH (Weak Reference)e9     %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol STRNCMP referencedy,             in psect $CODE offset %X000001B4A             in module COMPUTTC file DEVDISK:[DEV.ACP]COMLIB.OLB;1k  L Have been reading the 'Compaq C Migration Guide for OpenVMS VAX Systems' and@ this mentions several tools. (VAXC2DECC , VAXC$LCL, VAXC$EMPTY &K DECC$EMPTY), and am confused over which one to use for this situation.  Can  anyone help ???p  I Below are snippets of my current .MMS script, can anybody enlighten me aso to what to add where ??e  < exe_dir:mhs_snd_msg.exe depends_on     $(mhs_snd_msg_objs),-   obj_dir:fci_msg.obj,-d   OLB_DIR:FCI_SYS_LIB.OLB,-    EXE_DIR:FCI_SHR.EXE,-,J                                                                $(opt_file),         $(link) $(linkflags) $(link_quals) -$                $(mhs_snd_msg_objs),-$                obj_dir:fci_msg.obj,-(                OLB_DIR:FCI_SYS_LIB/LIB,-C                acp_dir:comlib/lib,-        <----- Library file VAXC C                acp_dir:comrdblib/lib, -    <----- Library file VAXCe                sql$user/lib,-b                $(opt_file)/opt     Contents of OPT_FILE below;f       exe_dir:fci_shr/sharey  . Thanks in advance for any help on the subject.  H ( We currently use DEC C v.5.6 & OpenVMS 7.1, building our code with the /STANDARD=VAXC switch )h   Regards,   Jeff   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 00:17:28 GMTs* From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>< Subject: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax. Message-ID: <s6yc9.325206$UU1.55927@sccrnsc03>  @ I heard that the PDP migrated to the Vax, but are they the same?  D I know hardware wise they aren't, (I believe the PDP needed allot ofI negative voltages to work), but I heard that you can get a version of Vmsi( for a PDP 11 that would work with a Vax.  H Though, considering the most experience I have had with VMS was a schoolL computer to check my mail and compile c programs is about it:P  I don't know the hardware aspects.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 08:02:22 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>@ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax4 Message-ID: <x4Dc9.34949$C26.3176087@zwoll1.home.nl>   WarlockD wrote:sB > I heard that the PDP migrated to the Vax, but are they the same? > F > I know hardware wise they aren't, (I believe the PDP needed allot ofK > negative voltages to work), but I heard that you can get a version of Vms * > for a PDP 11 that would work with a Vax.  P AFAIK Vax VMS V0.7 ran on a PDP11-70, which was a real PDP11 with some VAX like L   elements. But I don't think there ever was a commercial VMS version for a K PDP11. On the other hand a VAX system could also run RSX11M programs under cI certain conditions. I never used that possibility because all of our RSX aP programs used RMS (record management services) in Supervisor mode, and that was  not supported.   > J > Though, considering the most experience I have had with VMS was a schoolN > computer to check my mail and compile c programs is about it:P  I don't know > the hardware aspects.t >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:37:20 +0800) From: "SAS mailServer" <wayne.li@sas.com>c. Subject: Maybe it's SAS v8.2 for alpha VMS bug/ Message-ID: <akum8b$5d9$1@license1.unx.sas.com>.   Hi,all:   L I have run a simple PROC step and token about 12 mins , see LOG as following :   <   1? proc contents data=sashelp._all_ out=test noprint; run;D NOTE: The data set WORK.TEST has 2002 observations and 40 variables. NOTE: PROCEDURE CONTENTS used:'       real time           11.10 seconds &       user cpu time       1.40 seconds       Buffered IO :       3104       Direct IO   :       892o       Page Faults :       3789    B   2? proc contents data=data._all_  out=test memtype=data noprint;	   3? run; D NOTE: The data set WORK.TEST has 1985 observations and 40 variables. NOTE: PROCEDURE CONTENTS used:"       real time           12:22.06&       user cpu time       5.87 seconds       Buffered IO :       2113       Direct IO   :       833-        Page Faults :       197867   More detail , see us5731482.   Thank you for your help.         -- Wayne Li weimin3 Technical Support Managers" SAS Institute (Shanghai) Co., Ltd." 25/F POS Plaza 1600 Century Avenue Pudong New Districtw Shanghai, 200122 P. R. China. P: +86 21 6876 5353 * 211  F: +86 21 6876 9010 Email: wayne.li@sas.come W: www.sas.com/china   SAS...  The Power to Know   F The information contained in this e-mail is for the intended recipientC only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the^> sender immediately.  All material is to be treated as strictlyH confidential. The contents of this e-mail may not represent the views of
 SAS China.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 19:46:05 GMTr0 From: Paul Winalski <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com>& Subject: Re: Old games for VAX system.8 Message-ID: <5qr4nuge07qgnvhofa8org6lfvjf5taoah@4ax.com>  2 On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 06:33:50 GMT, "C.W.Holeman II"! <cwhii5@Julian5Locals.com> wrote:    >Paul Winalski wrote:e >2G >> Remember it??  I ported Adventure (original point system) to VAX/VMSh >  >From?   The RSTS version.c  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 18:19:00 -0700m' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> & Subject: Re: Old games for VAX system.< Message-ID: <howard-ED4185.18185901092002@enews.newsguy.com>  E In article <umoi2q9lavf190@corp.supernews.com>, sword7@speakeasy.org d wrote:  / > Do you remember that old games in 1980s, etc?e  E Oh yes.  I have a bunch.  Maybe I should post them in an appropriate s  newsgroup.  Is there any demand?   -- aA I hope you have good backups, or you will "Run in circles, scream # and shout!" when it happens to you. * "Is this the right place for an argument?"   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 22:18:53 -0600,+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: One Minute Cron3 Message-ID: <t8CxB4TcKkNk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   - In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:  > O > At the start of August Rob Young posted that he would be sending a version ofnJ > CRON which was modified to run with a 1 minute interval to Hunter to put > up on his freeware site. > > > I've just looked at Hunter's freeware site and can't see it. >  > Has it been put up anywhere ?s >   > 	Apologize profusely, again.  I had not tested certain aspects 	and spotted these lines:r  . $ component_min = 1  !for days, months and dow< $ if element_number .eq. 0 then component_min = 59  !minutes  @ 	Realizing that was something I added and not correctly, I fixed 	it:  ) $ component_min = 1  !for days and monthsl; $ if element_number .eq. 0 then component_min = 0  !minutess< $ if element_number .eq. 0 then component_max = 59  !minutes  I 	Here it is, again.  Go through the DCL line by line it may have wrapped.h= 	I cleaned up one minor wrap cutting and pasting this.  Studys0 	it and test it on a non-production box/cluster.  7 	I last used this in 1998 so may have removed something + 	in cleaning it up and putting it out here.t  6 	One interesting feature is it will kick start itself.C 	@cron START and if it isn't running as a detached process, it willr 	start itself.  A 	I make no claim as to the usefulness of the following procedure.y? 	It is not intended for use other than as a study.  If you have 0 	problems or questions about it, drop me a line.  < 	If you make improvements to it, drop me an email and I will@ 	stick them in my version.  If it is already sweet, maybe I send; 	it on.  If not, you can google it, I killed off the other c 	google version.  C 	One final note, I have one major concern.  If there were 300 linesaA 	in your crontab.dat file, would it be able to process it in less ? 	than a minute?  So it could probably use a re-write in C.  Bute? 	why bother?  When VMS becomes Linux compliant, perhaps someone = 	can grab it?  Or better yet, when COE gets wrapped back intoh( 	base VMS, Cron is already there, right?   				Rob   B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wondereG Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstreamd> The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  .                                 -- Neil Young      $ veri = f$verify(0) $ goto bypass_comments $! CRON.COMo $!E $!      A modified version of a Cron taken from an old VAX Pro.  Note D $!      that the original worked on an hourly basis.  This one worksJ $!      on 5 (1 on Alpha) minute increments.  It will round to the nearest? $!      5 (or 1) minutes to determine whether to run it or not.cI $!      Commands will be SPAWNED unless SUBMIT is present in the command.u $!C $!      The author of this procedure is Upcasing the input command.  $!1 $!                      Rob Young    May 14, 1993  $!6 $!      Added make_invincible        February 11, 19947 $!      Added initialization         September 15, 1995iE $!                      Initialization will allow us to support cronssJ $!                      running from several nodes as it uses the nodenameJ $!                      as part of the crontab filename (if found uses it,: $!                      otherwise defaults to crontab.dat) $!5 $!      Changed day_of_week to reflect Unix behavior:m $!" $!      Sunday = 0 .. Saturday = 6 $!H $!      Modified wait_minute so that Cron now can do 1 minute increments6 $!      on Alpha's.                  February 17, 1998 $! $!I $!      Several cleanups.  Minute wraps did not work (58-3 , 57-5, etc.),rN $!      day wrap was not adjusted to reflect Unix behavior, it too was broken.J $!      Changed the Cron startup to be not as convoluted.  You learn a few
 $!	tricks.4 $!                                   August 30, 2002 $!; $! A VMS version of the UNIX cron facility.  Reads the file L $! crontab.dat every 5 (1 Minute on Alpha) minutes and performs the commands$ $! according to the following rules: $!: $! each line contains 6 fields separated by tabs or spacesK $! The fields are minutes (0-60), hours (0-23), days (1-31), months (1-12), F $! day of week (1-7) and command line. (unix has a minutes field too.)D $!                              so does this one now --^^^^^^^^^^^^^ $!G $! The number parameters can be one of these: (can mix and match types)l( $!    single number    - matches exactly; $!    number-number    - matches inclusive range, note that K $!                       1-3 matches 1,2, or 3 but 22-2 (for hours) matchesc8 $!                       22,23,0,1,2.  Time goes around., $!    number,number... - matches any in list$ $!    *                - matches any $!> $! All four time fields must match for command to be executed. $!& $! lines starting with # are comments. $!L $! The command line goes to the end of line or to a %.  If there is a % thenL $! it is taken as a EOL for the command, further elements separated by % areH $! taken as input data lines to the command.  The command is executed asK $! a subprocess from the account running cron.com, except if it is a submit K $! command in which case it is executed immediately.  Since this is usually I $! the system account you should consider this facility mostly for systemvJ $! functions.  You can do something for another user by making the commandC $! a submit/user=somebody of a command file or a run/uic=something.  $!C $! logging of activity is done with writes to sys$output.  This can B $! be directed to a file during debugging or send to nl: when cron  $! is run as a detached process. $! $! $!  $! Make this routine undeletable $! $ bypass_comments: $! call make_invincible  $       call initializations $       if p1 .eqs. "START"i $       then $               call start_cron  $               exit
 $       endifd' $       if f$mode() .eqs. "INTERACTIVE"i $       then# $               write sys$output ""tA $               write sys$output "P1 = START to start Cron . . ." # $               write sys$output ""i $               exit
 $       endif  $! $! define some constants8 $ delim = " "  ! field delimiter, change here if desired
 $ dash  = "-"a
 $ comma = ","e $ percent = "%"  $ asterix = "*"t $!/ $! begin, first get the current time components  $ again:
 $ ! show timeb $ time        = f$time()3 $ current_0   = f$integer(f$cvtime(time,,"minute"))e1 $ current_1   = f$integer(f$cvtime(time,,"hour"))t0 $ current_2   = f$integer(f$cvtime(time,,"day"))2 $ current_3   = f$integer(f$cvtime(time,,"month")). $ day_of_week_name = f$cvtime(time,,"weekday"): $ if day_of_week_name .eqs. "Sunday"    then current_4 = 0: $ if day_of_week_name .eqs. "Monday"    then current_4 = 1: $ if day_of_week_name .eqs. "Tuesday"   then current_4 = 2: $ if day_of_week_name .eqs. "Wednesday" then current_4 = 3: $ if day_of_week_name .eqs. "Thursday"  then current_4 = 4: $ if day_of_week_name .eqs. "Friday"    then current_4 = 5: $ if day_of_week_name .eqs. "Saturday"  then current_4 = 6 $! $! write sys$output -iJ $! "Starting cron run at: hour - ''current_0'  day - ''current_1'  month -# $!''current_2'  dow - ''current_3'"  $! $! get a line from the file-1 $ open/read/error=wait crontab 'the_crontab_file'4 $! process each line in turn= $ line_number = 0   ! used if neccessary for unique file nameo $ next_line: $ line_number = line_number + 10$ $ read/end_of_file=wait crontab line# $! write sys$output "Reading line:"aF $ if f$extract(0,1,line) .eqs. "#" then goto next_line  ! comment lineM $ line = f$edit(line,"compress,trim,upcase")            !condition input datam $!A $! parse out line parts, all parts must match to get command donesA $! loop through first five elements of line calling check_elementeE $! with parameters current and element.  Check $status on return.  Ift0 $! any element doesn't match then get next line. $ element_number = 0 $ next_element: 0 $ element = f$element(element_number,delim,line)$ $ current = current_'element_number' $ gosub check_element-3 $ if $status .ne. 1 then goto next_line   !no matchM% $ element_number = element_number + 1o1 $ if element_number .le. 4 then goto next_elements $!9 $! here if elements 0-4 all match, time to do the command  $! find command in line.F $ command = f$extract(f$locate(f$element(5,delim,line),line),200,line)= $ write sys$output "At ''f$time()' executing line: ", command J $ if f$locate(percent,command) .ne. f$length(command) then goto data_linesB $ if f$extract(0,3,command) .eqs. "SUB" then goto immediate_submit $ spawn = "spawn"  $ spawn/nowait 'command' $ goto next_line $!A $immediate_submit:  ! here if command is submit so do immediately  $ submit = "submit"C
 $ set noon
 $'command' $ set on $ goto next_line $!7 $data_lines: ! here if command has data lines followingf $ data_line_number = 0, $ open/write temp cron_line'line_number'.com $next_data_line:8 $ write temp f$element(data_line_number,percent,command)) $ data_line_number = data_line_number + 1 E $ if f$element(data_line_number,percent,command) .nes. percent then -1     goto next_data_linea $ close temp* $ spawn/nowait @cron_line'line_number'.com $ goto next_line $!; $! wait for next go around, always synch to next even hour,v: $! this code to be sure that the procedure restarts within! $! a few seconds after even hour.s- $ !   ^^^^^--- That was then this is now. . .  $wait: $ close crontabnO $ if f$search("cron_line*.com") .nes. "" then spawn/nowait purge cron_line*.coms $ time = f$time()  $!E $! Will wait until next minute boundary, 5 on VAX, 0 on Alpha waitingV- $! current_seconds to get to the next minute.u $!6 $ current_minute = f$integer(f$cvtime(time,,"minute")) $ if current_minute .eq. 0 $ then $       wait_minute = 4  $ else $! do some modulo G $       wait_minute = 4 - (current_minute - ((current_minute / 5) * 5))  $ endifQ $!F $! Make sure you make it to the next minute boundary on speed machines $!6 $ current_second = f$integer(f$cvtime(time,,"second")) $! $! write sys$output "Waiting5 $!00:''f$string(wait_minute)':''f$string(60-current_s 
 $!econd)'" $!6 $ if is_alpha then wait_minute = 0  ! Watch this . . .? $ wait 00:'f$string(wait_minute)':'f$string(60-current_second)'NP $ wait 00:00:01  ! Wait 1 more second to make sure we are at the next min bound. $ goto again $!C $! subroutine to check for matches, current is the part of the realaF $! current date and time and element is the chunk of the crontab file.D $! Need to check element and cut up into smaller pieces if neccesaryD $! and then compare to current.  Note that current is an integer and) $! element (and it's pieces) is a string.e $check_element:./ $! parse out parts of element, if there are any $ $! check simplest case first, i.e. *J $ if f$locate(asterix,element) .eq. f$length(element) then goto no_asterix, $ return 1  ! asterix found, immediate match $!
 $ no_asterix:  $ sub_element_number = -1  $!6 $ find_sub_element: ! looking for comma separated list- $ sub_element_number = sub_element_number + 1o; $ sub_element = f$element(sub_element_number,comma,element)O: $ if sub_element .eqs. comma then goto out_of_sub_elements $!3 $ left_side_of_dash = f$element(0,dash,sub_element)r@ $ if left_side_of_dash .nes. sub_element then goto range_elementF $ if current .eq. f$integer(sub_element) then return 1  !found a match $ goto find_sub_element_ $!0 $ range_element:  ! sub_element has a dash in it4 $ right_side_of_dash = f$element(1,dash,sub_element)D $! if left is greater than right then things are not_straightforwardF $ if f$integer(left_side_of_dash) .gt. f$integer(right_side_of_dash) -!     then goto not_straightforwardd6 $ if current .ge. f$integer(left_side_of_dash) .and. -L      current .le. f$integer(right_side_of_dash) then return 1 ! in the range $ goto find_sub_elemento $!G $not_straightforward: !because time is circular at least in measurementeA $! example:  a range of days such as 27-3.  this is taken to mean @ $! any day from 27-31 or 1-3.  Need to see if current falls intoB $! 27-max_day_of_month or min_day_of_month-3.  Note that each time8 $! component has a different max and min.  Set them now.) $ component_min = 1  !for days and months ; $ if element_number .eq. 0 then component_min = 0  !minutes < $ if element_number .eq. 0 then component_max = 59  !minutes9 $ if element_number .eq. 1 then component_min = 0  !hoursa9 $ if element_number .eq. 1 then component_max = 23 !hoursnA $ if element_number .eq. 2 then component_max = 31 !days of month B $ if element_number .eq. 3 then component_max = 12 !months of year? $ if element_number .eq. 4 then component_min = 0  !day of week ? $ if element_number .eq. 4 then component_max = 6  !day of weeko7 $ if (current .ge. f$integer(left_side_of_dash) .and. --(       current .le. component_max) .or. -)      (current .ge. component_min  .and. -vF       current .le. f$integer(right_side_of_dash)) then return 1 !whew! $goto find_sub_element $! $out_of_sub_elements:i7 $return 3 ! ran through all sub_elements with any matchf$ $! end of subroutine check_element ! $! $ exit $!) $! New subroutine to make CRON invincible  $! $ make_invincible: $ subroutine $ ! 6 $ ! This routine not supported in public version . . . $ !t $ exit6 $       path = f$trnlnm("the_base","the_table") - ".]"< $ if f$search("''path'.bin]undeletable.exe") .eqs. "" then -	      exit- $ !a $ pid=f$getjpi("","pid")C $ open/write/error=closeup/end=closeup pidlog 'path'.log]_'pid'.logiE $       write pidlog "$ undeletable :== $''path'.bin]undeletable.exe"s% $       write pidlog "$ undeletable "m $       write pidlog "''pid'"2 $ close pidlog" $       type 'path'.log]_'pid'.log $       @'path'.log]_'pid'.log5 $       delete/nolog/noconfirm 'path'.log]_'pid'.log;e $ endsubroutinea     $ initialization:R $ subroutine8 $       this_node == f$edit(f$getsyi("nodename"),"trim")E $       this_dir == "''f$element(0,"]",f$environment("PROCEDURE"))']"t $       set default 'this_dir'8 $       if f$search("''this_node'_crontab.dat") .nes. "" $ then4 $       the_crontab_file :== 'this_node'_crontab.dat $ else( $       the_crontab_file :== crontab.dat $ endif 4 $       is_alpha == 'f$getsyi("hw_model")' .gt. 1024 $ !6 $ endsubroutinet    
 $ start_cron:n $ subroutine $       ctx = ""> $       temp = F$CONTEXT("PROCESS", ctx, "MODE","OTHER","EQL") $ loop:o $       pid = f$pid(ctx), $       if pid .eqs. "" then goto start_cron' $       prcnam = f$getjpi(pid,"prcnam") + $       if prcnam .eqs. "''this_node' Cron"P $       then# $               write sys$output ""nM $               write sys$output "''This_Node' Cron is already running . . .":# $               write sys$output ""i $               exit
 $       endifh $ goto loop  $ !i
 $ START_CRON:a* $       logdir = this_dir - "]" + ".logs]"3 $       if f$search("''this_dir'logs.dir") .eqs. ""  $       then% $               create/direct [.logs]t
 $       endif  $       close/nolog wlog: $       open/write wlog 'logdir'cron_'this_node'_start.tmp* $       write wlog "$ run /uic = [1,4] - "% $       write wlog "/priority = 6 - "l4 $       write wlog "/input = ''this_dir'cron.com - "@ $       write wlog "/output = ''logdir'''this_node'_cron.log - "? $       write wlog "/error = ''logdir'''this_node'_cron.err - "n= $       write wlog "/process_name = ""''this_node' Cron"" - "e) $       write wlog "sys$system:loginout "e $       close/nolog wlog+ $       @'logdir'cron_'this_node'_start.tmp 7 $       purge/keep=2 'logdir'cron_'this_node'_start.tmp- $ endsubroutine-     Sample Crontab.dat  
 # crontab.dat0> # Use 5 minute increments on VAX, 1 minute increments on Alpha( # minute, hour, day, month, dow, command #1D #  58 minutes to the hour through 3 minutes after the hour, showtime #uJ 58-3 * * * * submit/queue=sys$batch/noprint/log disk1:[youngr]showtime.com #s1 #  At 11:18 p.m. on Friday August 30th , showtime  #hK 18 23 30 8 5  submit/queue=sys$batch/noprint/log disk1:[youngr]showtime.com  #o #yM #0 5 * * 5,6 purge/nolog/keep=5 the_base:[log] ! Friday Saturday 5 a.m. purge  #p # end crontab.dath     To start Cron simply:r   $ @device:[directory]cron START-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 16:04:14 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> + Subject: Re: OpenOffice ODBC and Oracle Rdbn2 Message-ID: <3D7272BE.D9F71A8E@firstdbasource.com>   Alder wrote: > J > In an effort to reduce my personal reliance on Billyware, I've installedG > the OpenOffice suite on a Windows machine here at home.  I could findrH > some use for the suite if I could make a successful ODBC connection toI > the Oracle Rdb database at work, but so far have been unable to make itg	 > happen.  > H > Anyone here manage to make a successful ODBC connection with an OracleB > Rdb database from the OpenOffice 1.0 or 1.0.1 suite of programs? > 
 > Regards, > AlderR  C have you tried installing the Oracle ODBC driver for Rdb? It is not  billyware but may be related.a  G A better forum for this question would be the Rdb List server sponsored  by WWW.JCC.COM -- . Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163d7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com E                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html9/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 22:49:26 GMTs( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>+ Subject: Re: OpenOffice ODBC and Oracle Rdba, Message-ID: <3D729975.7050201@spammotel.com>   Michael Austin wrote:o > Alder wrote: > J >>In an effort to reduce my personal reliance on Billyware, I've installedG >>the OpenOffice suite on a Windows machine here at home.  I could findaH >>some use for the suite if I could make a successful ODBC connection toI >>the Oracle Rdb database at work, but so far have been unable to make itg	 >>happen.o >>H >>Anyone here manage to make a successful ODBC connection with an OracleB >>Rdb database from the OpenOffice 1.0 or 1.0.1 suite of programs? >>
 >>Regards, >>Alderd >  > E > have you tried installing the Oracle ODBC driver for Rdb? It is notl > billyware but may be related.  > I > A better forum for this question would be the Rdb List server sponsoredy > by WWW.JCC.COM  I Sorry, I should have mentioned that I have the Oracle Rdb Driver 3.00.02 eG installed and have used it successfully with MSQuery and other clients pF to connect with my Rdb databases.  It's just that OpenOffice seems to  have a problem with it.s  I I've also tried subscribing to the JCC list in the past.  It didn't seem i< to generate any messages, but maybe I'll try again.  Thanks.   Aldero   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 00:08:57 GMTt* From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>B Subject: Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...). Message-ID: <t_xc9.266950$me6.33892@sccrnsc01>   I think that was the point:P  L Gag, they should get an injunction, but this is in the uk, what can they do?: "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D6FE2A6.AF032E62@videotron.ca... Bob Koehler wrote:8 >    Naw, DEC never made a model 6130, 6130s, or 6130sx.  J Are you sure about the 6130 ? There was a vax 6000, so wouldn't there have been perhaps a 6100 ?   K Perhaps the 6130 is just a 6130 with additional reverse ventilation in it ?   J What i noticed is the orange. Reminiscent of the VMS documentation back in itsp glory days.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 19:21:34 GMTl* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?B Message-ID: <2Ntc9.225996$Aw4.9763370@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in message ' news:akt9fl$9ln@web.eng.baileynm.com...sB > In article <tGec9.63867$On.3196662@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:t7 > > "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagen+ > > news:akrrcn$cjj@web.eng.baileynm.com....   ...   D > > > Terry, neither you nor Bill have enough credibility left to be spending it  > > > this profligately. >!K > > I encourage you to be specific about anything I've said that you do not! feelH > > is credible, since I do make significant attempts to be accurate and usuallyo, > > have references available to back it up. > & > It's not the content, it's the tone.  H Then 'credibility' was perhaps a poor choice of words.  But I accept theJ (modified) criticism:  I don't like my tone either, and while I still feelC it's justified (and in some cases mandated) by the level of disgust F appropriate to the material I respond to I'll start making attempts toL moderate it and allow the pure content to carry the message, which will alsoH be more considerate of any innocent bystanders who may inadvertently get caught up in the fray.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 19:22:00 GMTf1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>eJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?. Message-ID: <sNtc9.263488$me6.34306@sccrnsc01>  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagee' news:akt9fl$9ln@web.eng.baileynm.com...nB > In article <tGec9.63867$On.3196662@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:c7 > > "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagee+ > > news:akrrcn$cjj@web.eng.baileynm.com...!4 > > > In article <ujTb9.236506$me6.32409@sccrnsc01>,6 > > > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:L > > > > www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather > > from > > > > non-customer trolls. >iD > > > Terry, neither you nor Bill have enough credibility left to be spending iti > > > this profligately.  ( Your opinion, and yoy are etitled to it. >cK > > I encourage you to be specific about anything I've said that you do not! feelH > > is credible, since I do make significant attempts to be accurate and usually , > > have references available to back it up.  L I'll stick by the statements I've made in SKwhatever, Drop me a line one dayI and I'll burn you the last three years of issues (you may have to wait, Iu don't have the burner yet).n         > K > It's not the content, it's the tone. I'm awfully tempted to just killfile G > the both of you. I don't killfile you because you *do* provide usefulfH > information, and I don't killfile Terry because, well, I'll think of a	 > reason.b  D Don't waste your time thinking of a reason. Kill file right now, OK>   >e > --K > I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the_ roofs$L > of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate. All F > these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain. `-_-'mF > Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag? 'U`0   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 19:22:59 GMT_1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>fJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?. Message-ID: <nOtc9.263494$me6.34221@sccrnsc01>  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagef' news:akt9he$9o7@web.eng.baileynm.com...c, > In article <3D718EC3.C1579C10@sunset.net>,) > Tom Crabtre  <tccrab@sunset.net> wrote:dH > > Actually, I'm sick of people who just complain how Compaq and now HP screwed 	 > > them.lB > > If DEC had such a good thing, Bill Gates would have bought it. >  > Didn't he?  2 To all intents and purposes, you are correct, Sir, >n > --K > I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over thea roofs L > of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate. AllnF > these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain. `-_-' F > Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag? 'U`o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 19:29:41 GMTh1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>tJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?- Message-ID: <FUtc9.159638$aA.32909@sccrnsc02>   - <mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid> wrote in message $ news:aktcqk$k9e$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...B > In comp.sys.dec Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:
 > : Check outm >_H > : www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather from > : non-customer trolls. >  > : -- > : Terry C. Shannon/ > : Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows HPCr< > : Director, Technical Communications, Science Medicus Inc.) > : Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc." > : terryshannon@attbi.com > : http://www.openvms.org >m2 > Bill really starting to get to you is he, Terry?  @ No, for reasons which will be come clear sometime down the road.  8 > Am I a non-customer troll because I'm a mere hobbyist?  H OF COURSE NOT! "MERE" Hobbyist? That's a self-deprecating remark. I haveI done what I can to help the hobbyist and free-VMS crowd. Even offer a $99f# hobbyist license to my publication.    >lL > As a relative spring chicken amongst you VMS Cockrels, it certainly amazes meE > that everyone still seems to have this head in the sand, "she'll beb apples"_& > attitude towards their favourite OS.   You are right.   >nJ > Its got almost zero mindshare out there in the real world - I work for aJ > large (for my town) system integrator, which is Australia-wide & we have no > demand at all for VMS work.o  B Understood and agreed. Like I have said dozens of times, "IT'S THE MARKETING, STUPID!"e  D But it appears that HPQ would rather misuse stockholder resources byG advertising loss-leader PCs. Not NSK or VMS (in the right venues). Doh!r  B > I think one contractor and myself are the only two people in the
 300-strongJ > organisation who even use VMS & we're certainly not making any money for > the company in that regard.iH > I've got exactly one Tru64 site & we sell a shipload of cHumPaq Wintel > boxen.  No VMS.  > J > It really makes me sad to Digital/Compaq and HP buggering their existingJ > customers roughly & expending no effort on promoting their premier OS to4 > a new breed of programmers and system integrators. >fK > The whining won't stop until HP extract their digits and start using themfB > to promote, improve and expand VMS to new markets and new users.    That. Sir, sums it up perfectly!   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2002 20:36:21 GMTe& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?- Message-ID: <aktto5$4vs@web.eng.baileynm.com>e  B In article <2Ntc9.225996$Aw4.9763370@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:e8 > Then 'credibility' was perhaps a poor choice of words.  J Possibly, but I couldn't come up with a better one off the top of my head.  I I obviously need to get one of those Microsoft Brain Implants some people  seem to be using.c   -- mO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofshO of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AllxL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 21:33:26 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?C Message-ID: <GIvc9.345899$m91.13867696@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>l  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message' news:FUtc9.159638$aA.32909@sccrnsc02...  >h/ > <mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid> wrote in messageu& > news:aktcqk$k9e$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...D > > In comp.sys.dec Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: > > : Check outg > >gJ > > : www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather > from > > : non-customer trolls. > >c > > : -- > > : Terry C. Shannon1 > > : Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows HPCu> > > : Director, Technical Communications, Science Medicus Inc.+ > > : Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.e > > : terryshannon@attbi.com > > : http://www.openvms.org > >74 > > Bill really starting to get to you is he, Terry? >_B > No, for reasons which will be come clear sometime down the road. >h: > > Am I a non-customer troll because I'm a mere hobbyist? > J > OF COURSE NOT! "MERE" Hobbyist? That's a self-deprecating remark. I haveK > done what I can to help the hobbyist and free-VMS crowd. Even offer a $99e% > hobbyist license to my publication.  >  > >rG > > As a relative spring chicken amongst you VMS Cockrels, it certainlye amazes > meG > > that everyone still seems to have this head in the sand, "she'll bee	 > apples"_( > > attitude towards their favourite OS. >  > You are right. >_ > > L > > Its got almost zero mindshare out there in the real world - I work for aL > > large (for my town) system integrator, which is Australia-wide & we have > no > > demand at all for VMS work.n >gD > Understood and agreed. Like I have said dozens of times, "IT'S THE > MARKETING, STUPID!"w >!F > But it appears that HPQ would rather misuse stockholder resources byI > advertising loss-leader PCs. Not NSK or VMS (in the right venues). Doh!! >!D > > I think one contractor and myself are the only two people in the > 300-strongL > > organisation who even use VMS & we're certainly not making any money for > > the company in that regard.(J > > I've got exactly one Tru64 site & we sell a shipload of cHumPaq Wintel > > boxen.  No VMS.  > >-L > > It really makes me sad to Digital/Compaq and HP buggering their existingL > > customers roughly & expending no effort on promoting their premier OS to6 > > a new breed of programmers and system integrators. > > H > > The whining won't stop until HP extract their digits and start using themD > > to promote, improve and expand VMS to new markets and new users. >o" > That. Sir, sums it up perfectly!  L Each time I've completely given up on Terry he comes up with a response likeJ this one that raises doubts again.  I've come to the conclusion that thereL may really be two of him (reminiscent of the 'good X, bad X' dual charactersL in so many Star Trek episodes), but unfortunately in recent years the 'good'D Terry seldom seems to make much of an appearance outside this forum.  I My guess about 'reasons that will be come [sic] clear' is that he's found D something other than self-employment to occupy his time, probably inJ marketing and if he weren't moving to New Mexico I'd say probably with HP.L Of course, there is that new Intel plant there, and if the prospect of an HPC position is no longer dangling before his nose the improved balancen< observable above might become a habit - we can hope, anyway.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 18:06:19 -0400> From: "Ray Fusci" <rxfxuxsxcxix(at)xcxhxaxrxtxexrx(dot)xnxext>J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?/ Message-ID: <un53qbi0lcaj5e@corp.supernews.com>   C Terry has a long, venerable (and international) history of "lackey" D characterizations. For your amusement, here is an early one that may have started them off.  D Of course, also note this journo didn't have the (insert appropriateF anatomy here) to identify Terry by name and provide a reference to hisB publication so people could make their own determination, therfore= leaving himself vulnerable to "kettle/pot" characterizations.p   regards, Ray' (there are no x's in my e-mail)r   ================> TITLE: IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE MESSAGE, JUST SHOOT THE MESSENGER0 SOURCE: Copyright 1994, International Data Group DATE: May 4, 1994 19:19EDT  > HONG KONG - Computerworld : Two weeks ago, we reported DigitalL Equipment's larger-than-expected US$183 million third-quarter loss in a newsG brief under the head "Digital results disappoint." The brief we carriedfL included the statement that the loss brought into question Digital's ability? to adjust to new market dynamics and to maintain profitability.0  H The folks over at Digital are apparently getting fed up with those sortsL of comments, so they decided to roll up their sleeves and do something about it.a  H "What did they decide to do?" you ask. "Did they decide to cut costs andH realign their business model to cope with the shift to low-margin sales?H Did they articulate a clear corporate vision? Did they outline a plan toL grow their service business more briskly to offset declining VAX maintenanceF revenue? Did they design a strategy to start selling Alpha products in volume?"  H No, no, no -- you're barking up the wrong tree entirely. They decided toL do what any self-respecting vendor does when it reads something about itself& that it doesn't like: Blame the media.  J Digital's first order of business was to find some lackey in the States --G oops, I mean "one of our most respected Digital watchers," to use DEC'stI words -- who's giving this US$183 million loss a more palatable spin fromfH Digital's perspective, and to use this guy to counter all of those nasty+ things that are being written in the press.   I Digital put us in our place by sending us a copy of this lackey's -- oopstI -- respected Digital watcher's newsletter, which started off with a quote  from Garrison Keillor:  H "Sometimes, in the news business, people create cliffhangers where thereK are no cliffs and write about events in a tone of urgency that has no basistI in fact. And that is why some journalists' credibility depends largely on3 the forgetfulness of...people."-  G The respected Digital watcher goes on to say that "A feeding frenzy hasHI developed around Digital's poor third quarter financial results. It's notgL clear there's much to sustain this frenzy other than the press' -- and their% readers' -- love of the sensational."s  I So there. "I hope you will use this as background material for subsequentwJ stories about Digital," admonished the Digital person in charge of sending/ out the respected Digital watcher's newsletter.e  C Here's my response: If Digital thinks its biggest problem is havingnL fallen victim to a frenzied media mob, you have to wonder if this company isH on the right track. The coverage of this story that I've seen has prettyH much called a spade a spade. No one is suggesting that Digital is on itsK death bed. The positives are being properly acknowledged -- the company hasrE a lot of cash in the bank, it's building good products, and it has anW enviable installed base.  G But the fact is, there are some very legitimate concerns that do indeednJ raise the question of whether Digital's recovery is on course. That US$183J million loss demonstrated Digital's failure to cut costs -- its number-oneI priority in the recovery plan outlined last year by CEO Robert Palmer. In'G fact, Digital's costs actually increased during the third quarter. More J facts: Digital has failed to convince many users that it has a viable game? plan, and it has failed to calm the fears of jittery investors.c  G All of that is painfully consistent with a corporate mind set that sees5D the publication of this information as the work of a sensationalist,I frenzied press. And allowing the suggestion to creep in that the press is"G somehow accountable for the bad news is a frightening extension of thatv misguided argument.o  G If there is blame to be placed, let's place it where it belongs: on therG lack of leadership that is plaguing Digital Equipment. That problem was K exacerbated last week by the departure of Edward Lucente, Digital's second-eL highest-ranking executive, who had been hand-picked by Robert Palmer and whoJ was considered to be Palmer's likely successor. Lucente, who lasted only aK year in the job, for some reason suddenly decided that working for his almacJ mater, Carnegie Mellon University, was more up his alley. Enrico Pesatori,L vice president of Digital's PC business unit, has been tapped to fill in forD Lucente, leaving analysts to wonder what's going to happen to the PC	 business.a  I Closer to home, our own Edmund Reilly, managing director and president ofcL Digital's Asia region, has also kissed the company good-bye "to pursue otherI career and personal interests" -- with just barely a year in the DEC Asia.H saddle. That's just dandy for Ed, but the timing certainly couldn't haveL been worse for the Digital crew left behind to try to figure out how to makeG this ingenious "twin hub" concept work in Hong Kong and Singapore. Hong,J Kong, you see, is the headquarters of Digital's Asia region, and SingaporeD is the headquarters of Digital's Asia Pacific region -- a recipe forF confusion if ever there was one. India, Korea, Greater China and ASEANL report to Hong Kong, where Graham Long, DEC Asia's vice president for sales,K is "holding down the fort" until a decision is made on what to do followinggI Reilly's decision to skedaddle. The Asia regional operation in Hong Kong,oH along with Japan, Australia and New Zealand, in turn reports to the AsiaJ Pacific headquarters in Singapore, which fortunately is still in the handsK of Bobby Choonavala. It looks like Choonavala has his work cut out for him.e  F So how will we know when Digital is back on track? A good sign will beH when there's a stable management team in place -- one that is willing toB stick it out through the tough times and that insists on acceptingF responsibility for the performance of its own organisation. As long asJ Digital persists in pointing fingers outside the company, you can bet that; things on the inside will continue to be...well...frenzied.   $ Don Tennant, Computerworld Hong Kong   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:19:13 GMTc1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?' Message-ID: <3D72C1D4.38E1D586@fsi.net>h   Ray Fusci wrote:  E (Not really wrote, more like cut-and-pasted (since someone complained  about that...))t   > [snip]H > So how will we know when Digital is back on track? A good sign will beJ > when there's a stable management team in place -- one that is willing toD > stick it out through the tough times and that insists on acceptingH > responsibility for the performance of its own organisation. As long asL > Digital persists in pointing fingers outside the company, you can bet that= > things on the inside will continue to be...well...frenzied.a > & > Don Tennant, Computerworld Hong Kong  ! B-mazing! A 20th Century prophet!   F It'll be interesting to see who the prophets of the 21st Century / 3rd Millennium turn out to be ...    -- o David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:24:00 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>fJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?' Message-ID: <3D72C2F3.43A56891@fsi.net>n   Peter da Silva wrote:g > D > In article <2Ntc9.225996$Aw4.9763370@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:-: > > Then 'credibility' was perhaps a poor choice of words. > L > Possibly, but I couldn't come up with a better one off the top of my head. > K > I obviously need to get one of those Microsoft Brain Implants some peopler > seem to be using.i  G Comp.os.vms posting by one Peter da Silva's associates, dated some timec in the near future:<   Friends,  H I regret to inform you that at roughly 19:30 GMT yesterday, Mr. Peter da= Silva blue-screened. An attempt to press his reset button wasc* ineffective - he had hopelessly locked up.  D In lieu of flowers, please donate to the open-source organization of your choice in Peter's name.   --   David J. Dachtera' dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 03:23:48 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?/ Message-ID: <8RAc9.266271$983.529798@rwcrnsc53>0  I "Ray Fusci" <rxfxuxsxcxix(at)xcxhxaxrxtxexrx(dot)xnxext> wrote in message ) news:un53qbi0lcaj5e@corp.supernews.com...nE > Terry has a long, venerable (and international) history of "lackey"nF > characterizations. For your amusement, here is an early one that may > have started them off.  K Oh, I remember this one well. As it turns out, the content of the resrearchmK note in question was pretty acurate. I just the esteemed Mister Tennant hadr7 gone a bit further and called me "lackey," etc by name..  L Obviously I wouldn't have to worry about writing newsletters, etc, to obtsinD things like food, sheler,. clothing, or collegr tuition for my kids. >sF > Of course, also note this journo didn't have the (insert appropriateH > anatomy here) to identify Terry by name and provide a reference to hisD > publication so people could make their own determination, therfore? > leaving himself vulnerable to "kettle/pot" characterizations.i   Yeah, darn it. See above.   F Oh, by theway, I was not the sole author of that publication. Jonathan7 Eunice, founder of Iluminatga, Inc., was a conspitator.   ; Thanks for thre "sta b from t\he past" and the great laffs!      Happy Labor Day,   terry sy     >l
 > regards, > Rays! > (there are no x's in my e-mail)l >_ > ================@ > TITLE: IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE MESSAGE, JUST SHOOT THE MESSENGER2 > SOURCE: Copyright 1994, International Data Group > DATE: May 4, 1994 19:19EDT >i@ > HONG KONG - Computerworld : Two weeks ago, we reported DigitalI > Equipment's larger-than-expected US$183 million third-quarter loss in a" newsI > brief under the head "Digital results disappoint." The brief we carriedcF > included the statement that the loss brought into question Digital's abilityeA > to adjust to new market dynamics and to maintain profitability.o >oJ > The folks over at Digital are apparently getting fed up with those sortsH > of comments, so they decided to roll up their sleeves and do something aboutu > it.  >eJ > "What did they decide to do?" you ask. "Did they decide to cut costs andJ > realign their business model to cope with the shift to low-margin sales?J > Did they articulate a clear corporate vision? Did they outline a plan toB > grow their service business more briskly to offset declining VAX maintenancecH > revenue? Did they design a strategy to start selling Alpha products in
 > volume?" > J > No, no, no -- you're barking up the wrong tree entirely. They decided toG > do what any self-respecting vendor does when it reads something aboutd itself( > that it doesn't like: Blame the media. >nL > Digital's first order of business was to find some lackey in the States --I > oops, I mean "one of our most respected Digital watchers," to use DEC'slK > words -- who's giving this US$183 million loss a more palatable spin fromoJ > Digital's perspective, and to use this guy to counter all of those nasty- > things that are being written in the press.  > K > Digital put us in our place by sending us a copy of this lackey's -- oops'K > -- respected Digital watcher's newsletter, which started off with a quoteh > from Garrison Keillor: >eJ > "Sometimes, in the news business, people create cliffhangers where thereG > are no cliffs and write about events in a tone of urgency that has no. basiseK > in fact. And that is why some journalists' credibility depends largely on-! > the forgetfulness of...people.": >2I > The respected Digital watcher goes on to say that "A feeding frenzy haseK > developed around Digital's poor third quarter financial results. It's not$H > clear there's much to sustain this frenzy other than the press' -- and theirt' > readers' -- love of the sensational."3 >AK > So there. "I hope you will use this as background material for subsequent L > stories about Digital," admonished the Digital person in charge of sending1 > out the respected Digital watcher's newsletter.g > E > Here's my response: If Digital thinks its biggest problem is havingrK > fallen victim to a frenzied media mob, you have to wonder if this company  isJ > on the right track. The coverage of this story that I've seen has prettyJ > much called a spade a spade. No one is suggesting that Digital is on itsI > death bed. The positives are being properly acknowledged -- the company  hasrG > a lot of cash in the bank, it's building good products, and it has ani > enviable installed base. >tI > But the fact is, there are some very legitimate concerns that do indeed L > raise the question of whether Digital's recovery is on course. That US$183L > million loss demonstrated Digital's failure to cut costs -- its number-oneK > priority in the recovery plan outlined last year by CEO Robert Palmer. IniI > fact, Digital's costs actually increased during the third quarter. MorenL > facts: Digital has failed to convince many users that it has a viable gameA > plan, and it has failed to calm the fears of jittery investors.  >tI > All of that is painfully consistent with a corporate mind set that sees F > the publication of this information as the work of a sensationalist,K > frenzied press. And allowing the suggestion to creep in that the press is I > somehow accountable for the bad news is a frightening extension of thata > misguided argument.a >rI > If there is blame to be placed, let's place it where it belongs: on the I > lack of leadership that is plaguing Digital Equipment. That problem was E > exacerbated last week by the departure of Edward Lucente, Digital's  second- J > highest-ranking executive, who had been hand-picked by Robert Palmer and who'L > was considered to be Palmer's likely successor. Lucente, who lasted only aH > year in the job, for some reason suddenly decided that working for his almaL > mater, Carnegie Mellon University, was more up his alley. Enrico Pesatori,J > vice president of Digital's PC business unit, has been tapped to fill in for F > Lucente, leaving analysts to wonder what's going to happen to the PC > business.p >oK > Closer to home, our own Edmund Reilly, managing director and president ofmH > Digital's Asia region, has also kissed the company good-bye "to pursue otherhK > career and personal interests" -- with just barely a year in the DEC AsiasJ > saddle. That's just dandy for Ed, but the timing certainly couldn't haveI > been worse for the Digital crew left behind to try to figure out how ton makeI > this ingenious "twin hub" concept work in Hong Kong and Singapore. Hong L > Kong, you see, is the headquarters of Digital's Asia region, and SingaporeF > is the headquarters of Digital's Asia Pacific region -- a recipe forH > confusion if ever there was one. India, Korea, Greater China and ASEANG > report to Hong Kong, where Graham Long, DEC Asia's vice president forc sales,C > is "holding down the fort" until a decision is made on what to doc	 followingbK > Reilly's decision to skedaddle. The Asia regional operation in Hong Kong,-J > along with Japan, Australia and New Zealand, in turn reports to the AsiaL > Pacific headquarters in Singapore, which fortunately is still in the handsH > of Bobby Choonavala. It looks like Choonavala has his work cut out for him. >rH > So how will we know when Digital is back on track? A good sign will beJ > when there's a stable management team in place -- one that is willing toD > stick it out through the tough times and that insists on acceptingH > responsibility for the performance of its own organisation. As long asL > Digital persists in pointing fingers outside the company, you can bet that= > things on the inside will continue to be...well...frenzied.a >t& > Don Tennant, Computerworld Hong Kong >n >'   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 21:13:51 GMTE0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>* Subject: Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question= Message-ID: <jqvc9.6253$Dr5.23331@news-server.bigpond.net.au>o  J It would help to take a look at your routing table and interface addresses on Velo.  (     $ @sys$manager:tcpip$define_commands     $ netstat -rnf     $ ifconfig -av.     $ sysconfig -q inet ipgateway ipforwarding  F From your description of traffic flows, it suggests a problem with theL routing table on Velo, but only with traffic travelling toward the 10.1.0.20G host.  (Traffic flowing away from 10.1.0.20 is being correctly routed).o7 i.e. Velo is not routing traffic to the 10.1.0.20 host.o  L Not withstanding problems in your conifguration or dare I say any bugs, this5 configuration should work as you are expecting it to.   L > Must the PSION be on a different subnet in order for VELO to route traffic, > between the ethernet and SLIP interfaces ?  I It is most common to have SLIP interfaces appear in a different subnet to C ethernet but not necessary.  The routing table will deal with that.TK However, it starts getting tricky when you consider broadcast traffic in annF environment where you have a point-to-point link in the same subnet asH ethernet.  For this reason, your configuration with SLIP and Ethernet in different subnets is preferred.a  J > Should the SL1 (slip) interface have the same IP address as that defined on
 > the PSION ?f  F No.  Each end of the point-to-point link should have its own unique IP address.  K > Would the TCPIP software on VELO be able to forward/route packets betwenei the E > ethernet and the slip line no matter what sort of routing is activet (basic,h; > gated, routed ?) Or shoudl a specific routing be needed ?m  - All routing protocols should do the job here.e  K > If, from BIKE I try to ping the PSION,  I get instant responses (probablyh4 > issued by velo) even if the PSION is disconnected.  F Aha.  This suggests you have configured VELO with the PSIONs 10.1.0.207 address.  Make sure PSIONs address is different to SL1.g  I > By the way, in TCPIP, HELP SET PROT  says that you should be able to do. > SET PROT UDP/FORWARD  0 Thanks, I'll pass that along to the doc writers.   Cheers,r Matt.r   --= -------------------------------------------------------------i OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard CompanyD Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA = -------------------------------------------------------------     : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D70854F.DBCD2F03@videotron.ca...I > I have a local subnet of 10.0.0.* , mask 255.255.255.240 (eg: from 0 toe 15). >s1 > default routing/gateway is a router at 10.0.0.1 2 > node "BIKE" is  10.0.0.10 and has the DNS server > node "VELO" is  10.0.0.11e >i5 > my PSION PDA was set to 10.1.0.20  (its own subnet)cF > and similarly set interface SL1 on VELO to TXC0:   (Slip interface). >a > I SET PROT IP/FORWARD. >,L > I have followed instructions in the manuals but it fails. TCPTRACE on nodeJ > VELO reveals that a dns requests originating from the PSION does make it toI > the dns server, and the responses from the DNS server (on bike) make ity backF > to VELO, displayed by TCPTRACE, but they don't make it to the PSION. >yB > Both BIKE and VELO have a TCPIP SET ROUTE 10.1.0.20/gateway=VELO (10.0.0.11)  >y > I have basic questions:  >eL > Must the PSION be on a different subnet in order for VELO to route traffic, > between the ethernet and SLIP interfaces ? > J > Should the SL1 (slip) interface have the same IP address as that defined on
 > the PSION ?p >sK > Would the TCPIP software on VELO be able to forward/route packets betwenea theoE > ethernet and the slip line no matter what sort of routing is activeo (basic,e; > gated, routed ?) Or shoudl a specific routing be needed ?  >rK > If, from BIKE I try to ping the PSION,  I get instant responses (probablyx4 > issued by velo) even if the PSION is disconnected. >i >aI > By the way, in TCPIP, HELP SET PROT  says that you should be able to do  > SET PROT UDP/FORWARD >r > However that command fails.s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 04:29:44 +1000+ From: "Strider" <iamnotstrider@hotmail.com>r7 Subject: Re: v7.3 - mscp_serve_all = 9 serves hsg diskss< Message-ID: <3d725cbe$0$29913$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>  
 Oooops, typo!nF Of course I mean "show dev/full $1$dGa2" still reports being served to cluster via MSCP.lL I read (and re-read) the doco, and don't see why the DGA's are being served.   Striderr   >,I > If you re-check the documentation, you find that this is the documented  > behavior. See this URL:e >aB > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6048/6048pro_089.html >g. > ...and locate the section on MSCP_SERVE_ALL. >lI > I believe the value you may want is 2, serve only local disks. Even thebH > V7.1-2 SYSMAN on-line HELP for PARAMETERS PARAMETERS agrees with this. >u > -- > David J. Dachterag > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >l* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:28:52 GMTE1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n7 Subject: Re: v7.3 - mscp_serve_all = 9 serves hsg disksn' Message-ID: <3D72C419.A5D39A40@fsi.net>s   Strider wrote: >  > Oooops, typo!lH > Of course I mean "show dev/full $1$dGa2" still reports being served to > cluster via MSCP. N > I read (and re-read) the doco, and don't see why the DGA's are being served.  H Did you change MSCP_SERVE_ALL to 2 and reboot (on all nodes if this is aC cluster)? If a cluster, shutdown all nodes so the cluster ceases to & exist, then reboot one node at a time.  K > > If you re-check the documentation, you find that this is the documented  > > behavior. See this URL:m > >oD > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6048/6048pro_089.html > >t0 > > ...and locate the section on MSCP_SERVE_ALL. > >eK > > I believe the value you may want is 2, serve only local disks. Even theoJ > > V7.1-2 SYSMAN on-line HELP for PARAMETERS PARAMETERS agrees with this. > >m > > -- > > David J. Dachterao > > dba DJE Systemsc > > http://www.djesys.com/ > >s, > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/      -- t David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 14:35:01 -0400t* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: VMS for i86. Message-ID: <3D722595.26258.4153BCC@localhost>  . On 31 Aug 2002 at 16:01, Stuart Johnson wrote:K > Finally, for folks with fast PC's and little money, there are a couple of M > VAX emulators that you might try; I have no experience with these but woulda< > like to hear from someone who has set one up from scratch.  D CHARON-VAX is not for the "little money" crowd.  It's an industrial-E strength emulator, including lots of hardware support, and is priced . accordingly.  > There are at least 2 groups working on freeware VAX emulators.  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:19:04 -0400 From: "GD" <gdixon@frognet.net>9% Subject: Re: VMS performance softwarec6 Message-ID: <IKtc9.1134$Nk3.336914@newsfeed.slurp.net>  D I've installed and used PAWZ.  Compaq/HP are no longer selling PAWZ.@ The products that comprise it have been sold to a company calledB PerfCap.  They are improving the versions of software that alreadyD existed like the ECP Data Collector that runs on VMS.  PAWZ consists> of a Windows based server (using SQLServer 2000) that collects@ performance information from agents on various operating systemsD (Linux, HPUX, Solaris, Windows, OpenVMS).  The collected performance? data is made available to users via a web interface on the PAWZlE Server.  You can see trend data for days/weeks/months, or you can seecE real time data if you want.  One big problem is that it won't displaytE cluster performance; strictly node performance. The really nice thing/B is that users anywhere in the world can look at CPU, MEM, DISK I/OC statistics by logging into a web page. You can also set it up to benB paged or emailed with either real-time, or yesterday's events thatB have crossed a threshhold.  For instance, if you want to know when; NODE a uses more than 50% CPU, you can set up notification.x  F PAWZ works with the free data collector that comes with OpenVMS 7.3 orF you can purchase the improved version from PerfCap.  If you have FibreC channel storage you will probably need the PerfCap version (PerfCapeE Monitor) since a bug exists with the free version on VMS 7.3 from HP.e  E I would suggest you get an evaluation copy from PerfCap and give it ah test drive.s   Grantn  C "Hansford, Paul (ELS)" <P.Hansford@elsevier.co.uk> wrote in messagei; news:2EA918FE7CC6FB4BA0510D671ADB2AB40D7A29@elsoxfs02604...,? > Hi, I wonder if anyone could make any recommendations for VMSo performance. > monitoring/tuning software@ > I used to Polycentre Datacollector and Performance advisor and CapacityE > planner, but I don't think this exists or at least not supported ono Alphae > platform.tD > What about Compaq Performance Analysis Web Zone (PAWZ)  has anyone	 used it ?o > Is it what I need?= > If anyone could suggest a product they have used I would bet	 extremelyn
 > grateful >i	 > Regards  >I > Paul Hansfordw > VMS System Manager   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.483 ************************y sy     >l
 > regards, > Rays! > (there are no x's in my e-mail)l >_                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 