1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 02 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 484       Contents:3 Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/60  Re: Alpha vs Vax?  RE: Alpha vs Vax?  Re: Alpha vs Vax?  RE: Alpha vs Vax?  Re: Alpha vs Vax? 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) % Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK ( Re: DECC RTL Migration - Advice Required Re: dectalk fuse type?7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax 7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax 7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax 7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax . Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?5 Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements  Remote Site Cluster Member Re: Remote Site Cluster Member9 Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...) 9 Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...) 9 Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...) 9 Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...) A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?  Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?  Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?  Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?  Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?  Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question Re: Stupid newbie question- Re: Stupid newbie question - Thanks everybody - Re: Stupid newbie question - Thanks everybody - Re: Stupid newbie question - Thanks everybody - Re: Stupid newbie question - Thanks everybody ! Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question ! Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question ! Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question ! The real reason HP bought Compaq? G UCX020B (UCX 2.0-03) - How to transfer file names with version numbers? P Re: UCX020B (UCX 2.0-03) - How to transfer file names with version numbers? numb Re: VMS for i86  RE: VMS performance software  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 13:02:42 GMT # From: "Cthulhu" <f.sileno@agora.it> < Subject: Re: A Slashdot newbie, question on CD and a 4000/606 Message-ID: <akvnhi$1lu89n$1@ID-115747.news.dfncis.de>  ) WarlockD <warlockd@drakesmith.net> wrote: I > Yea, but still, I have seen some information on how to burn a VMS CD in - > linux, or atleast how to mount and read it.   7 To read a VMS CD on Linux, search "vmscd" on Freshmeat.   2 It also works on the VMS CD images you could have.   	utilizzatamente,  	    Cthulhu   --  D    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it/ wgah'nagl fhtgan!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:04:00 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>  Subject: Re: Alpha vs Vax?& Message-ID: <3D736FD0.2090608@iee.org>   WarlockD wrote:   M > Wow, I just found out the dec we have is a 3000/240 is an alpha system.  We  > also have two 3000/120's    A There was a DECstation 5000/240 and (IIRC) a DECstation 5000/120. / Both were MIPS-based. Did you misread somethng?   J > Should I get the alpha or the Vax?  Can I tell the diffrence in speed or > preformance in VMS?   ? None of the above appear to be VAXen - in fact, given that they < are probably MIPS-based, their OpenVMS performance is likely. to be identical (since they cannot run it ...)  9 I believe that NetBSD will run on both of those platforms . (you need to look for the pmax port, I think).   Antonio    --     --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:56:26 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: Alpha vs Vax?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEIIFKAA.tom@kednos.com>   C There were DECStation 3100's and 5000/25,120,200,240  (I think) and D yes they were all Mips based and sold as Ultrix boxes.  BSD was alsoC avaialble.  Ultrix was quite stable on these and was well supported D by DEC.  I still have TK50 tapes of the OS and PL/I compiler, but no tape drive, anymore.   >-----Original Message----- 1 >From: antonio.carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org] ) >Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 7:04 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: Alpha vs Vax?  >  >  >WarlockD wrote: > C >> Wow, I just found out the dec we have is a 3000/240 is an alpha   >system.  We >> also have two 3000/120's  >  > B >There was a DECstation 5000/240 and (IIRC) a DECstation 5000/120.0 >Both were MIPS-based. Did you misread somethng? > K >> Should I get the alpha or the Vax?  Can I tell the diffrence in speed or  >> preformance in VMS? > @ >None of the above appear to be VAXen - in fact, given that they= >are probably MIPS-based, their OpenVMS performance is likely / >to be identical (since they cannot run it ...)  > : >I believe that NetBSD will run on both of those platforms/ >(you need to look for the pmax port, I think).  >  >Antonio >  >--  >  >---------------. >Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 16:06:05 GMT * From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net> Subject: Re: Alpha vs Vax?? Message-ID: <N%Lc9.107406$_91.132460@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   " Ah my bad then.  They were 5000's.  I Humm, I think we have a TK50 tape drive somewhere at work, just on a side  note, are they decent drives? . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEIIFKAA.tom@kednos.com... C There were DECStation 3100's and 5000/25,120,200,240  (I think) and D yes they were all Mips based and sold as Ultrix boxes.  BSD was alsoC avaialble.  Ultrix was quite stable on these and was well supported D by DEC.  I still have TK50 tapes of the OS and PL/I compiler, but no tape drive, anymore.   >-----Original Message----- 1 >From: antonio.carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org] ) >Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 7:04 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: Alpha vs Vax?  >  >  >WarlockD wrote: > B >> Wow, I just found out the dec we have is a 3000/240 is an alpha >system.  We >> also have two 3000/120's  >  > B >There was a DECstation 5000/240 and (IIRC) a DECstation 5000/120.0 >Both were MIPS-based. Did you misread somethng? > K >> Should I get the alpha or the Vax?  Can I tell the diffrence in speed or  >> preformance in VMS? > @ >None of the above appear to be VAXen - in fact, given that they= >are probably MIPS-based, their OpenVMS performance is likely / >to be identical (since they cannot run it ...)  > : >I believe that NetBSD will run on both of those platforms/ >(you need to look for the pmax port, I think).  >  >Antonio >  >--  >  >---------------. >Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:18:33 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: Alpha vs Vax?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEIMFKAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 0 >From: WarlockD [mailto:warlockd@drakesmith.net]) >Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 9:06 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: Alpha vs Vax?  >  > # >Ah my bad then.  They were 5000's.  > J >Humm, I think we have a TK50 tape drive somewhere at work, just on a side >note, are they decent drives?  @ Yes, I think so, but the tapes themselves were pretty expensive.    / >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEIIFKAA.tom@kednos.com...D >There were DECStation 3100's and 5000/25,120,200,240  (I think) andE >yes they were all Mips based and sold as Ultrix boxes.  BSD was also D >avaialble.  Ultrix was quite stable on these and was well supportedE >by DEC.  I still have TK50 tapes of the OS and PL/I compiler, but no  >tape drive, anymore.  >  >>-----Original Message-----2 >>From: antonio.carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org]* >>Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 7:04 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >>Subject: Re: Alpha vs Vax? >> >> >>WarlockD wrote:  >>C >>> Wow, I just found out the dec we have is a 3000/240 is an alpha 
 >>system.  We  >>> also have two 3000/120's >> >>C >>There was a DECstation 5000/240 and (IIRC) a DECstation 5000/120. 1 >>Both were MIPS-based. Did you misread somethng?  >>L >>> Should I get the alpha or the Vax?  Can I tell the diffrence in speed or >>> preformance in VMS?  >>A >>None of the above appear to be VAXen - in fact, given that they > >>are probably MIPS-based, their OpenVMS performance is likely0 >>to be identical (since they cannot run it ...) >>; >>I believe that NetBSD will run on both of those platforms 0 >>(you need to look for the pmax port, I think). >>	 >>Antonio  >> >>-- >> >>--------------- / >>Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org  >> >>--- ( >>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A >>Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002  >> >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >  >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 17:29:03 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Alpha vs Vax?( Message-ID: <3D7391CF.ACC4C8E@127.0.0.1>   WarlockD wrote:  > $ > Ah my bad then.  They were 5000's. > K > Humm, I think we have a TK50 tape drive somewhere at work, just on a side  > note, are they decent drives?    <cough>   C Old and slow, however reasonably reliable, and fairly easy to fix / H clean up. Leaders falling off are a problem, easily sorted when you know how.  B Finding media might be an issue. TK50 and TK52 (formatted for thisG density drive) is what you need. If there's a drive lying around, there , could well be a cupboard full of the things.  H Expect a backup to one of these drives with 95 MB capacity to take about an hour ish.  G They are quite interesting to take apart, or to watch with the lid off, 4 because you see what modern DLT drives are built on.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 18:19:06 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>  Subject: Re: am/pm2 Message-ID: <jpDc9.2297$Y3.349214@news.xtra.co.nz>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message 6 news:343f30ae.0209012104.3121e1c@posting.google.com...  E > In a similar vein: There was once some experimentation in the early H > days of railroads with a single rail on the ground and the second railE > in the air hanging from posts. The disadvantages of this system are 0 > obvious, which is why you don't see any today.  I Tsk, tsk :-) Ever seen a tram line? Three rails for sure if you count the G wire on top but sort of similar to what you say. Still around, sort of.   G > > A decent digital clock/watch can be switched between 12 and 24-hour  systems. >  > B > True. But they would sell in the U.S. only becasue they have theF > 12-hour am/pm system! Therefore, it is really the 12-hour am/pm thatG > you are profiting from. That is a disadvantage of the 24-hour system. C > I mean, what you are saying is: "Well, look, I can make a 24-hour E > digital clock, and if I add the system they like to use in the U.S. B > (12-hour am/pm), then I can sell some there." The 24-hour system* > itself won't sell any clocks in the U.S. >    > G > First of all, I am not saying that the am/pm system is better. I said D > that each has its strengths and weaknesses. Someone asked what theB > weaknesses are of the 24-hour system, and I simply answered that > question.   @ Fair enough but ... All the disadvatages you've mentioned so far> revolve around the fact that users of the 12-hour system would? be unhappy with the 24-hour one (can't sell, hard to read etc). D It has little to do with the system itself, just what the people are used to.  ? For example: I've recently seen an old grandfather clock (still > working btw) which had it's hours marked in old Latin numbers.@ Done in a sort of curly script too. Do you think this would sellA a lot of copies outside of auctions? After all, this thing weighs B more than some people even. Is it the fault of the 12-hour system?  > > Actually, I am very glad that VMS uses 24-hour time -- am/pm4 > really sucks on computers. I never said otherwise.  " Why on computers but nowhere else?  G > The 24-hour system is extremely logical, mathematically sensible, and ? > convenient, especially for use on computers. All I was saying G > originally is that if you are using am/pm, for whatever reason, it is H > logical, mathematically sensible, convenient, to assign pm to 1200 andF > am to 0000. In fact, it is the de facto system on electronic devices > that use am and pm.   B Hmmm, I wonder if you can demonstrate a watch or clock that, using: am/pm convention, can actually show both 00:00 and 12:00 ?  E Plus, you got me confused there: which of the pm1200 or am0000 stands I for midnight (or noon)? Rethorical question of course, before the answers  start rolling in ...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 18:36:35 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>  Subject: Re: am/pm2 Message-ID: <IFDc9.2302$Y3.349603@news.xtra.co.nz>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message 7 news:343f30ae.0209012133.2f0563d2@posting.google.com...   H > And it is time to allow the words am and pm to evolve a new definition  ! Which must be consistent however.   B > meridiem, which, in brief, rests on the fact that the sun rarely. > crosses the meridian at 12:00 standard time.  > That doesn't really matter. No one using 24-hour clock expectsB the sun to cross the "meridian" (or is it meridiem? :-) at exactly? 12:00:00. However, just to try to be even slightly logical, one / would expect that numbers ordering should hold:    eg: 01.00 - 12.59 = 00.01 ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 18:45:29 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>  Subject: Re: am/pm, Message-ID: <3D732529.1040508@tg.nsw.gov.au>  G Well, as Alan has several times said, he threw this in to stop another  D stupid thread probably betwist (in no particular order), Bill Todd, I Andrew Harrison and Fred Kleinsorge.  I have forgotten the title of that  F thread, because every time I see a combination of those names, I know  that I have lost interest.  F Other threads that elicit no interest from me are ones with Kerry and ) Andrew, and more recently Terry and Bill.w  8 Just my own 2c or 2p or 2 euro or 2 rupees, or whatever.  H Someone, Jan Erik possibly, said that UK does not use 24 hour clock.  I G left there in 1982 and my memory is that all bus/train timetables were a 24 hr.  G Australia still uses 12 hr, and the bus/rail timetables have a heavier o font for pm.  D Both my Digital watch and computer clock are always 24 hour.  Since I parents and brothers and their families are still in UK, it is easier to nG calculate the hour of the day there with 24 hour, for when I ring them.e  D I find Alan's comments and his adversaries interesting but somewhat H specious.  For exact 12:00, 24:00, 12 a.m. or 12 p.m., most people seem ? to refer to (12) midday or (12) midnight with that terminology.e  G Folks have been talking as if there is a minute change on either side, i9 but isn't 00:00.000000000000001 today, not yesterday and e  12:00.000000000000001 afternoon?   *****?  I Alan, I don't think you have, so why not submit your years ago thread on -H symbol substitution to Hoff for the Freeware CD.  I've kept that thread C but I'd love to see it as an "essay" rather than interspersed with t( comments that you further elaborated on.  E Am I yet again trying to change the topic back to VMS, or what? :-)))e   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedo> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseeB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid tA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the i= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with iC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesd> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment."s  G ***********************************************************************w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:23:34 +1000b1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>  Subject: Re: am/pm, Message-ID: <3D732E16.7080502@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Alan E. Feldman wrote:   [snips]sF > As to lack of acceptance, it's not my fault that Merriram Webster isD > behind the times. I'm sure cache was in use for quite a while as a6 > computer term before it made it into the dictionary. > D Cache would have been in the dictionary as an English word for many I years.  Perhaps you meant the specifically computer oriented definition. -I But in any field, surely jargon, which this is in our field, takes a lot l1 longer to move into a general English dictionary.s  E  >And it is time to allow the words am and pm evolve a new definitionc? > -- the one I have already described in detail. I have made ansF > excellent case in favor of that in related posts. I have also made aB > case against the literal interpretaion of ante meridiem and postB > meridiem, which, in brief, rests on the fact that the sun rarelyF > crosses the meridian at 12:00 standard time. These archaic, obsoleteB > definitions make sense only for local solar time. And we live byF > standard time, not local solar time. The two are very different in a8 > number of ways. I recently posted that in more detail. > G Well, write to M-W, they seem to be very receptive of comments.  Their oB criterion seems to be the amount of current usage.  Has the usage H evolved or just changed.  You might have a VMS problem here of backward  compatability :-)o  F I had a very interesting discussion with them regarding "vector" as a E pollinator.  They conceded that they had put that definition in with rL less than their normal requirements of usage -- but it's there and it stays.    E > The meter used to be defined as 1/10,000,000th of the distance frombA > the North Pole to the equator. Well, that proved to be somewhat C > inconvenient, so a platinum-iridium bar was fashioned and had twopF > marks on it which then became the new standard. Then, for reasons ofE > accuracy, it was redefined to be a certain number of wavelengths ofeD > light from a krypton-86 laser. That has since been replaced by theD > distance light travels in vacuo in 1/299792458 of a second[1], theD > second being defined in terms of a certain hyperfine transition in > Cesium-133[2]. > : > Refs.:  [1] http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/meter.html; >         [2] http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/second.htmls > F > So the meter has evolved over the years. And because of the de factoA > use of the "new" am/pm "convention", or way of doing things, inFH > digital clocks, am/pm has evolved also, whether "authorites" recognizeF > that fact or not. And the fact that this "way of doing things" is so@ > universally used in digital clocks, makes it "the convention". > D I think the semantics are somewhat different.  Neither to agree nor I disagree, use of am/pm at midday or midnight is a convention used by the 5@ vox (vax :-) populis and will remain so.  Take for instance the A numbering of floors in a building -- different in France from UK.e  I As a POM in Australia, I always have problems with the Au and UK ways of nI defining "this Monday" and "next Monday" and "last Monday" -- there is a  F possible week's difference in what I think I'm talking about and what  these "colonials" are.  B The measurement of a metre is more about scientific precision and C duplication -- to give it a basis of consistency, and is of little iH relevance to the layman.  I doubt that any road signs had to be changed G for the distance between Rouen and Paris, for example, after they were  0 installed in metric after the French Revolution.    F > "Authorities" once told us the earth was flat, was the center of theD > universe about which all else revolved. So I feel there is nothingE > wrong with questioning them. If no one ever questioned authorities,-( > we'd still be living in the Dark Ages. > G Alan, you're sounding too defensive.  You've stated your point of view  F very well.  Let the world (well, c.o.v.) decide -- and we'll probably G all carry on with our own usage in our own little area of the world :-)    Regards, Paddy          G ***********************************************************************t  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedr> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseeB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid SA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the e= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with fC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesa> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment."/  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:01:22 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: am/pm8 Message-ID: <8pq6nuk59a5votl2ngo9m7nbr6nfaq0ghk@4ax.com>  1 On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 18:45:29 +1000, Paddy O'Brieny$ <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote:     >BI >Someone, Jan Erik possibly, said that UK does not use 24 hour clock.  I tH >left there in 1982 and my memory is that all bus/train timetables were  >24 hr.   A Rail times yes but I think bus times vary with the company.HardlyrB anything other than travel times in the UK uses the 24 hour clock.? The BBC still uses AM and PM except on the radio World Service.    http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/ NOWV
  2:35 pm    Murder She Wrote-     NEXTm
  3:25 pm  	  Tweeniesm    Tonight at a glance:    t	 7:00 pm  -  Holiday: You Call The Shots   	 7:30 pm  -  This Is Your Life   	 8:00 pm  0  EastEnders7   	 8:30 pm  L
  Ground Forcen   	 9:00 pm  c  Waking The Dead   
 10:00 pm    BBC News At Ten O'Clock   
 10:25 pm    BBC London News   
 10:35 pm    Bedtime   
 11:05 pm    Johnny Vaughan Tonight]   
 11:35 pm    Liquid News      more tonight...  -    Full listings for the week    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 09:23:40 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>uH Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)8 Message-ID: <no76nu09b1gfo0d1n6qq4glhlc80otktna@4ax.com>    From the home of GMT (Zulu, UTC)  * http://greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm  	 AM and PMe What is Noon and Midnight?< AM and PM start immediately after Midnight and Noon (Midday)
 respectively.   D This means that 00:00 AM or 00:00 PM (or 12:00 AM and 12:00 PM) have no meaning.e  F Every day starts precisely at midnight and AM starts immediately after; that point in time e.g. 00:00:01 AM (see also leap seconds)g  F To avoid confusion timetables, when scheduling around midnight, preferB to use either 23:59 or 00:01 to avoid confusion as to which day is being referred to.  ; It is after Noon that PM starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM (12:00:01)      -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:39:35 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>nH Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)2 Message-ID: <ydHc9.2459$Y3.357584@news.xtra.co.nz>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:no76nu09b1gfo0d1n6qq4glhlc80otktna@4ax.com... >r" > From the home of GMT (Zulu, UTC) > , > http://greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm >m > AM and PMy > What is Noon and Midnight?> > AM and PM start immediately after Midnight and Noon (Midday) > respectively.o  < Pardon me, but if both AM and PM start *after* both midnightA and noon, what do you call those? After all, it's not for nothing 7 that the concept of a zero was introduced, you know ...r   >dF > This means that 00:00 AM or 00:00 PM (or 12:00 AM and 12:00 PM) have
 > no meaning.6  I Cool, now we got to a point where we can tell all the watch manufacturersa that ...   > H > Every day starts precisely at midnight and AM starts immediately after= > that point in time e.g. 00:00:01 AM (see also leap seconds)0  A Well, at least we now agree that it *should* start with 00:00:00.k  D So, again, what do you call the midnight in terms of am/pm? And some3 microseconds from whatever you call it to 00:00:01?   = > It is after Noon that PM starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM (12:00:01)-  4 Nice, have a wrist watch that can show 00:00:01 PM ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:38:17 +0100-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>0H Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)8 Message-ID: <cdp6nusr9tjlb8ql0s4lf4t5he25a3vsjs@4ax.com>  ? On Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:39:35 +1200, "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote:h   >e3 >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messages3 >news:no76nu09b1gfo0d1n6qq4glhlc80otktna@4ax.com...  >># >> From the home of GMT (Zulu, UTC), >>- >> http://greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htmn >> >> AM and PM >> What is Noon and Midnight? ? >> AM and PM start immediately after Midnight and Noon (Midday)  >> respectively. >v= >Pardon me, but if both AM and PM start *after* both midnightoB >and noon, what do you call those? After all, it's not for nothing8 >that the concept of a zero was introduced, you know ...  F I call them 12 midnight and 12 noon (or midday). If someone said 12:00E AM I would assume they meant midnight and 12:00PM midday. But I would  probably ask them to clarify.P   >>G >> This means that 00:00 AM or 00:00 PM (or 12:00 AM and 12:00 PM) have- >> no meaning. > J >Cool, now we got to a point where we can tell all the watch manufacturers	 >that ...g  E I would argue the watch is still correct as it is displaying the timeNE rounded *down* to the nearest minute or second. Thus when it displayssB "12:00 AM" (or 00:00 AM) it is sometime *after* midnight and AM isC correct. When it displays "12:00 PM" it is sometime *after* midday.h> You could argue that the clocks are incorrect according to theA standard for an infinitely short period of time but have you everoD filmed a clock with a slow motion camera. Unless both indicators canD be on at the same time there will be a finite (short) length of timeD where no indicators show and the clock is correct! for an infinitely short period of time :-)   >>I >> Every day starts precisely at midnight and AM starts immediately aftere> >> that point in time e.g. 00:00:01 AM (see also leap seconds) > B >Well, at least we now agree that it *should* start with 00:00:00. > E >So, again, what do you call the midnight in terms of am/pm? And somec4 >microseconds from whatever you call it to 00:00:01?   AM,  See argument abovet     > > >> It is after Noon that PM starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM (12:00:01) >m5 >Nice, have a wrist watch that can show 00:00:01 PM ?  >i >    -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 05:58:57 -0700 $ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho). Subject: Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK< Message-ID: <d0141774.0209020458.7a15a48@posting.google.com>  
 Christian,  R Have you broadband? If so, I can put up an image for you to grab on my FTP server.  n christian@karg.org (Christian Karg) wrote in message news:<7b342c68.0209011048.2d876e3c@posting.google.com>...H > I just acquired my first VAX (a MV4000) on eBay, and am keen to get itH > up and running. I've joined Encompass, but the OpenVMS VAX hobbyist CD- > appears to be unavailable. Can anyone help?o >  > Best Regards,o > Christiank > P.S. I'm based in the UK.p   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 06:41:46 -0700e8 From: Helmut.Moellmann@rwesystems.com (Helmut Moellmann)1 Subject: Re: DECC RTL Migration - Advice Required = Message-ID: <349dfb31.0209020541.1f5478c9@posting.google.com>   D I suggest, you use the linklibraries named sys$library:decc$crtl.olbC or the shared equivalent sys$library:decc$crtl.exe. These librariesrC contain then correct symbols, which are prefixed with decc$, and so F are the entries in the objects (no wonder the vaxc libraries can't see these).vA The behaviour of these prefixes can be influenced by the compilerd switch /prefix = ...	 Good luckc Helmut Moellmann   ~ "Jefferson Humber" <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1Zsc9.343910$2p2.14522198@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...M > Am currently experimenting with linking our application to the DECC RTL, it & > currently links to the old VAXC RTL. > G > Everything has gone well so far except for 4 .EXE's which I am having- > trouble building.e > J > These four executables link with some other library files (Supplied manyM > moons ago by 3rd party vendor (1993'ish), and we don't have the source codeAL > for these), which I suspect were built using the VAXC Compiler and we have& > always linked these to the VAXC RTL. > < > Am getting the following messages just trying to link with > the DECC RTL.h > , >     %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 3 undefined symbols:$ >     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         PRINTF$ >     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         STRLEN% >     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         STRNCMPu< >     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMH$FIXEDQ_UR (Weak Reference)< >     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMH$FIXEDQ_UW (Weak Reference)C >     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMHDEB$TRACE_FREE_VM (Weak Reference)iG >     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMHDEB$TRACE_FREE_VMLIST (Weak Reference)-B >     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMHDEB$TRACE_GET_VM (Weak Reference)C >     %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         VMHDEB$TRACE_RET_VMH (Weak Reference)3; >     %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol STRNCMP referencedi. >             in psect $CODE offset %X000001B4C >             in module COMPUTTC file DEVDISK:[DEV.ACP]COMLIB.OLB;1n > N > Have been reading the 'Compaq C Migration Guide for OpenVMS VAX Systems' andB > this mentions several tools. (VAXC2DECC , VAXC$LCL, VAXC$EMPTY &M > DECC$EMPTY), and am confused over which one to use for this situation.  Canw > anyone help ???r > K > Below are snippets of my current .MMS script, can anybody enlighten me ase > to what to add where ??, > > > exe_dir:mhs_snd_msg.exe depends_on     $(mhs_snd_msg_objs),- >  > obj_dir:fci_msg.obj,-y >  > OLB_DIR:FCI_SYS_LIB.OLB,-  >  > EXE_DIR:FCI_SHR.EXE,-tL >                                                                $(opt_file). >         $(link) $(linkflags) $(link_quals) -& >                $(mhs_snd_msg_objs),-& >                obj_dir:fci_msg.obj,-* >                OLB_DIR:FCI_SYS_LIB/LIB,-E >                acp_dir:comlib/lib,-        <----- Library file VAXCsE >                acp_dir:comrdblib/lib, -    <----- Library file VAXC: >                sql$user/lib,-s  >                $(opt_file)/opt >  >  > Contents of OPT_FILE below;o >  >     exe_dir:fci_shr/share  > 0 > Thanks in advance for any help on the subject. > J > ( We currently use DEC C v.5.6 & OpenVMS 7.1, building our code with the > /STANDARD=VAXC switch )  > 
 > Regards, >  > Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 22:13:01 +1000h0 From: Wilber Williams <W.Williams@its.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: dectalk fuse type? - Message-ID: <3D7355CD.AF8E2138@its.uq.edu.au>t  G But back to DECtalks... Does anyone know where any technical or service,! manuals for the DTC01 are online?    thanks Wilber   John Santos wrote: > & > On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Nic Clews wrote: >  > > Ben Bridgwater wrote:a > > >n > >y > > > > Huh? > > > >n4 > > > > UK is 50Hz AC, US is 60Hz AC as well, no DC. > > > N > > > What I meant was that the formula for power for AC voltages is differentI > > > from that for DC ... something to do with the square root if memorya* > > > serves (which it probably doesn't!). > > H > > Sorry, yes you are right, the AC is RMS value. Hey, I'm in computing5 > > because I never could do maths, that's my excuse.m > >tG > > (I think this may be drifting OT, but I guess there are a few usingnH > > equipment in differing voltage areas so I'd rather it mentioned than- > > someone get a nasty shock, pun intended.)i > >c > B > Usually you can get away with the simple DC formulas for AC, butE > not always.  If the load is constant, you should be fine.  However,*D > if the load varies as a function of the phase of the input voltageB > (such as many motors, or anything with capacitors or inductors),B > you have to solve the instantaneous equations and integrate over > a cycle to get average loads.  >  > > --C > > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencess > > nclews at csc dot comu >  > --
 > John Santosu > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539   -- c Wilber0 Associate Director, Networks And Design ServicesH +----------------------------------------------------------------------+H |Wilber WILLIAMS                          w.williams@its.uq.edu.au     |H |                                         Telephone :  +61 7 3365 4232 |H |ITS The University of Queensland         Facsimile :  +61 7 3365 7539 |H |Brisbane Qld 4072  AUSTRALIA             Mobile    :  +61 412 210 063 |H +----------------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 09:02:20 +0200m9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> @ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax' Message-ID: <3D730CFC.135303D5@aaa.com>a  ; The VAX 11/xxx models was, more or less, a PDP-11 processort? with some "Virtual Adress eXtensions" hardware added. That way,y9 the VAX 11/xxx could run PDP-11 images. Later VAX modellss3 was built on hardware without the PDP-11 processor.r   Jan-Erik Sderholm   WarlockD wrote:g > B > I heard that the PDP migrated to the Vax, but are they the same? > F > I know hardware wise they aren't, (I believe the PDP needed allot ofK > negative voltages to work), but I heard that you can get a version of Vmsh* > for a PDP 11 that would work with a Vax. > J > Though, considering the most experience I have had with VMS was a schoolN > computer to check my mail and compile c programs is about it:P  I don't know > the hardware aspects.a   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 05:22:38 -0700a- From: bobmarlow@postmaster.co.uk (Bob Marlow)h@ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax= Message-ID: <c5d3d5e1.0209020422.71d352bc@posting.google.com>   G The Vax (Virtual Address eXtensions) was a successor to the PDP, thoughgB I seem to remember the first Vax was called a PDP-11 VaX. As Vaxes? are 32-bit, and AFAIK PDPs were not, compatibility will be verym; low. I remember the RSX compatibility mode, I think it went/> out with VMS V4, and at the same time therefore, the wonderful sos line editor went.m  F Actual source code though, can port very well. There was a big Fortran> program I heard about at our company that run on a PDP, and it= re-compiled and re-linked and ran ok on a Vax, almost withoute
 any edits.  : But this may not be true for all languages: In particular,< I remember writing assembler on a PDP-11 (/75?), and all the? calculations had to be done in Octal, and I think the registers " will be different for VaX 'Macro'.      Z Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<x4Dc9.34949$C26.3176087@zwoll1.home.nl>... > WarlockD wrote: D > > I heard that the PDP migrated to the Vax, but are they the same? > > H > > I know hardware wise they aren't, (I believe the PDP needed allot ofM > > negative voltages to work), but I heard that you can get a version of Vmse, > > for a PDP 11 that would work with a Vax. > R > AFAIK Vax VMS V0.7 ran on a PDP11-70, which was a real PDP11 with some VAX like N >   elements. But I don't think there ever was a commercial VMS version for a M > PDP11. On the other hand a VAX system could also run RSX11M programs under hK > certain conditions. I never used that possibility because all of our RSX eR > programs used RMS (record management services) in Supervisor mode, and that was  > not supported. >  > > L > > Though, considering the most experience I have had with VMS was a schoolP > > computer to check my mail and compile c programs is about it:P  I don't know > > the hardware aspects.h > >  > >  > >    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:56:35 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l@ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax; Message-ID: <01KM128R9H949QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>*  H > Actual source code though, can port very well. There was a big Fortran@ > program I heard about at our company that run on a PDP, and it? > re-compiled and re-linked and ran ok on a Vax, almost withouto > any edits.  F I believe the rather strange floating-point formats in VMS are due to G backwards compatibility with the PDP.  Good for porting PDP to VAX, butnG sometimes bad since things which "just worked" on the VAX (like passingbH arguments of one precision to a routine which expects another precision)D won't work when ported to, say, IEEE platforms.  Sure, the code was G sloppy in the first place, but this feature allowed some bad practices t/ to go unnoticed by all but Careful Programmers.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 16:12:02 GMTs* From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>@ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax? Message-ID: <m5Mc9.107516$_91.133137@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>2  J Thanks that might of been it.  I might of just got confused, I didn't know# the older Vax's had PDP processors.h  A Damn companys and their confusing marketing terms for computers:Pd: "Bob Marlow" <bobmarlow@postmaster.co.uk> wrote in message7 news:c5d3d5e1.0209020422.71d352bc@posting.google.com... G The Vax (Virtual Address eXtensions) was a successor to the PDP, though B I seem to remember the first Vax was called a PDP-11 VaX. As Vaxes? are 32-bit, and AFAIK PDPs were not, compatibility will be very4; low. I remember the RSX compatibility mode, I think it wento> out with VMS V4, and at the same time therefore, the wonderful sos line editor went.   F Actual source code though, can port very well. There was a big Fortran> program I heard about at our company that run on a PDP, and it= re-compiled and re-linked and ran ok on a Vax, almost withouto
 any edits.  : But this may not be true for all languages: In particular,< I remember writing assembler on a PDP-11 (/75?), and all the? calculations had to be done in Octal, and I think the registersL" will be different for VaX 'Macro'.      ) Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message-0 news:<x4Dc9.34949$C26.3176087@zwoll1.home.nl>... > WarlockD wrote:eD > > I heard that the PDP migrated to the Vax, but are they the same? > >hH > > I know hardware wise they aren't, (I believe the PDP needed allot ofI > > negative voltages to work), but I heard that you can get a version ofi Vmsn, > > for a PDP 11 that would work with a Vax. >nL > AFAIK Vax VMS V0.7 ran on a PDP11-70, which was a real PDP11 with some VAX likeK >   elements. But I don't think there ever was a commercial VMS version fora a L > PDP11. On the other hand a VAX system could also run RSX11M programs underJ > certain conditions. I never used that possibility because all of our RSXH > programs used RMS (record management services) in Supervisor mode, and that was > not supported. >i > >fL > > Though, considering the most experience I have had with VMS was a schoolK > > computer to check my mail and compile c programs is about it:P  I don't- know > > the hardware aspects.5 > >0 > >m > >"   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 00:30:53 -0700g. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?n= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209012330.54296ac5@posting.google.com>@  s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0208311441.4c252c69@posting.google.com>... c > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D6E3B18.986A4A94@videotron.ca>...c > > Carl Nelson wrote:e > > >   Why 12:00 m? Well, am is the latin for "ante merides" and pm is the latin for "post merides". d > > > Merides is the point in the sky where the sun is the highest in the sky. In other words, noon. > > N > > No ! No ! No !  Most locations on Earth do not have the sun at its highestM > > point at noon, especially when you consider daylight savings and standard R > > times.  Therefore, if you are at a location where the sun is highest at 13:00,P > > then 12:00 (noon) would be am. But if you are at a location where the sun isZ > > at its highest at 11:00, then 12:00 (noon) would be pm , according to your definition. >  > H > This is correct. But there's more. The sun rarely crosses the meridianH > at 12:00 anywhere! The westward advance of the sun across the sky does
      ^^^^^  C (that's 12:00 local standard time) (and this is true even for local 3 mean solar time, but not true for local solar time)i    F > not occur at a constant rate. It varies slightly throughout the yearE > due to the non-zero angle between the equator and the ecliptic, andnF > due (to a lesser degree) to the fact that the earth's orbit is not aD > circle, but an ellipse with the sun at one focus. And according toE > Kepler's second law, it travels faster when it is closer to the sunUH > than when it is farther away. The result is that the sun is as much as? > (very approx.) 15 minutes early or late at the meridian. Somea    B I was closer than I thought. The right figure is actually about 16 min.    E > sundials, like the one on the mall at U. of Maryland, College Park,?E > actually have correction tables engraved in just for this effect! AdC > mathematical formula that describes this correction is called the.D > "equation of time". (Do a Google search for "equation of time" for
 > more info.)  > D > This lends even more support to the silliness of using the archaic? > definitions of am and pm. Isn't noon when the sun crosses the C > meridian?! Bzzzzt!!! There goes the whole system based on literalcC > interpretations of ante meridiem and post meridiem, since the suniC > rarely crosses the meridian at 12:00 local time. We don't live bydC > local solar time; we live by standard time (which is UTC plus ourtH > local time zone differential), and they (local solar time and standardG > time) are different. Back in the days when am and pm originated, theynE > lived by local solar time. It doesn't matter much any more what theeF > original definitions were, since strict application of them leads to$ > inconsistencies with actual usage.    E I'm afraid the above paragraph may not be clear. Noon is midday, wheniC the sun crosses the meridian. Now, this rarely happens precisely atyF 12:00 (standard or mean solar time) as explained above. So, if the sunB is running early, it will cross the meridian at, let's say, 11:45.F Then, going strictly by the archaic definitions of am and pm, assumingC they refer to the nearest noon (when the sun crosses the meridian),mE all times from 11:46 thru the rest of the day would be pm because the @ sun has crossed the meridian for that day!!! And that is clearlyB different from actual usage. Hence a contradiction, and the entire; argument that 12 noon isn't am or pm because of the archaic C definitions of am and pm falls apart. These obsolete definitions do)A make sense for local solar time, but we don't live by local solar1C time. We live by standard time, and at certain times of the year inbD certain places, daylight saving time, which makes the case for 12:00 not being am or pm yet weaker.  @ Remember that the (local standard) time that the sun crosses theC meridian is affected by how far you are west or east of a time zoneaF meridian. It is also affected by the tilt of the earth and its varyingE speed around the sun (which produces the analemma and the equation of D time) and this causes it to vary about +/- 16 minutes from the mean.E And the value of that mean is 12:00 (standard time) *only* if you are  on a time zone meridian.    @ > Don't believe me?! Check the sunrise and sunset tables for anyG > location on earth. You'll see that the vast majority of times are not @ > symmetric about 12:00 (pm). In fact, you'll also find that theF > earliest and latest sunrise and sunset times for a given location doC > not fall on the solstices! They are close, but not right on. This   > [These lines made blank intentionally to hopefully improve the positioning of the ^'s below.]  H > difference is especially notable for the winter solstice. For northern:                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  D My apologies to those in the Southern hemisphere. I should have saidE "December solstice". I prefer to call it that for courtesy, accuracy, = and clarity. Unfortunately, old habits die hard, so I goofed.o    @ > latitudes below the arctic cirle, the earliest sunset is earlyH > December and the latest sunrise is in early January. Don't believe me? > Check the tables!i    C Well, this may only be true for mid-northern latitudes. It probablyn@ changes as you approach the arctic circle. And inside the arcticD circle, many other strange effects happen, like the midnight sun. In? the southern hemisphere at middle latitudes, the effect is mostn@ noticeable near the June solstice. Near the equator it gets more3 complicated, at least for a little bit south of it.F    & > You can generate your own tables at  > : >     http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.html  . > @ > You know that figure-8 you sometimes see on globes? That's theG > analemma. That is what you would get if you pointed a camera to where_C > the celestial equator crosses the meridian, clamped the camera in_H > place on a sturdy tripod, and took a picture (very small exposure onlyH > on sunny days) at 1200 (that's 12:00 pm) local standard time every day
 > for a year.     D I forgot to mention that all exposures must happen on the same frame of film.    C > For more information, check out www.analemma.com . They even haveDE > animated explanations of all this. (I have no financial holdings inu > that site :-)A > E > And if you wish to use terms like 12 noon, 12 midnight, and 11:59PMEG > (for clarity), go ahead! I have no objection!!! There's nothing wronguG > with them for casual use. But I have yet to see any electronic device.4 > that will display noon or midnight at those times! > E > And yes, the 24-hour system doesn't need this discussion. I have nooG > argument with that. But good luck getting the am/pm people to switch!     D And like I added to other posts: I greatly prefer the 24-hour systemE for system time on computers. For civil use, either system is fine byuE me. And *if* you are using the am/pm system, for whatever reason, ther? sensible, logical, mathematically self-consistent, and de facto > convention is to assign pm to 1200 and am to 0000. That's all.     > Happy timekeeping. >  > [...]b >    Disclaimer: JMOi Alan E. Feldman  spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:20:44 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> 7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? 2 Message-ID: <mbFc9.2359$Y3.352730@news.xtra.co.nz>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message,7 news:343f30ae.0209012330.54296ac5@posting.google.com...o  J > > difference is especially notable for the winter solstice. For northern< >                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >1F > My apologies to those in the Southern hemisphere. I should have saidG > "December solstice". I prefer to call it that for courtesy, accuracy,b? > and clarity. Unfortunately, old habits die hard, so I goofed.t  C Apologies accepted :-) Not that it was me you answered to, but thatn? sort of thing is so common that us, Southerners, don't pay much J attention to it of course. Rest assured it's neither here nor there really ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:41:02 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?y) Message-ID: <3D73403E.E033F857@127.0.0.1>l  	 AG wrote:h > = > "Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message 9 > news:343f30ae.0209012330.54296ac5@posting.google.com...l > L > > > difference is especially notable for the winter solstice. For northern> > >                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >mH > > My apologies to those in the Southern hemisphere. I should have saidI > > "December solstice". I prefer to call it that for courtesy, accuracy,tA > > and clarity. Unfortunately, old habits die hard, so I goofed.d > E > Apologies accepted :-) Not that it was me you answered to, but thatrA > sort of thing is so common that us, Southerners, don't pay mucheL > attention to it of course. Rest assured it's neither here nor there really > ...-   Neither here nor there?r  E It is to us. With our support group following the sun, not only do weiF have to cope with 'gluing' office hours attendance at reasonable timesB in several timezones, but that when the clocks go forward, they goG backwards in some places (and visa versa) AND to top it all it does not ( all necessarily happen on the same date.  @ However, it works, We had a sleepy European in their early hours; conversing with an Ozzie  during their normal office hours.  -- 1? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences- nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:01:15 +1200 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>?7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?e2 Message-ID: <SxHc9.2471$Y3.358554@news.xtra.co.nz>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message,# news:3D73403E.E033F857@127.0.0.1...i > AG wrote:u   > >s2 >> Rest assured it's neither here nor there really > > ...d   > Neither here nor there?  >eG > It is to us. With our support group following the sun, not only do wedH > have to cope with 'gluing' office hours attendance at reasonable timesD > in several timezones, but that when the clocks go forward, they goI > backwards in some places (and visa versa) AND to top it all it does noth* > all necessarily happen on the same date.  H C'mon mate, you'll be telling me about the dates. I'm couple hours aheadL of you, you know :-) I'm used to doing remote trouble-shooting installationsF in both US and Europe where the clock on the system shows anything andD it's dog. That's why I feel rather strongly about some sensible time conventions.
 Thank you :-)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 12:49:12 +0100x( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?i) Message-ID: <3D735038.309EAD51@127.0.0.1>   	 AG wrote:b > 7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messaget >nI > > It is to us. With our support group following the sun, not only do we J > > have to cope with 'gluing' office hours attendance at reasonable timesF > > in several timezones, but that when the clocks go forward, they goK > > backwards in some places (and visa versa) AND to top it all it does noto, > > all necessarily happen on the same date. > J > C'mon mate, you'll be telling me about the dates. I'm couple hours aheadN > of you, you know :-) I'm used to doing remote trouble-shooting installationsH > in both US and Europe where the clock on the system shows anything andF > it's dog. That's why I feel rather strongly about some sensible time > conventions. > Thank you :-)g  G It is a little after 21:30 where we're concerned, and lunchtime for me. H However, wouldn't you be rather having a beer right now? We've worked onH handling the support from a convenience point of view where we all sleep easier at nights.   > A convention would be nice, where do you fancy holding it? :-)   -- 1? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesD nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Sep 2002 01:24:41 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>> Subject: Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application- Message-ID: <87it1pwrl2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   & Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:  B > The documentation claims to be in PDF format but obviously has aC > ".gz" extension. Can you please make this available in "pure PDF"tF > because downloading what seems to be a compressed file format is not > allowed everywhere.a  7 Not allowed??? Are they aware that pdf *is* compressed?   $ Where is Dilbert when you need him!!   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.:@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 16:27:26 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>iB Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements0 Message-ID: <al0037$5a1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  p > In article <3D70D359.6060201@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes: >  >>Paul Sture wrote:) >> >>E >>>>What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?i >>>> >>>I disable both. >>>t8 >>Then there are quite a few things on the web that will >>not work properly !s >> > E > Such as most web-borne malware.   Java and JavaScript give too muchm. > control over my computer to unknown persons. >     ! Java and Javascript should not beP placed in the same category.  " There have been very very few Java$ exloits and those have almost always/ been bugs in the JVM's, normally implimentationw) issues and not fundamental flaws in Java.a  + Javascript has had numerous holes, but even ) Javascript pales into insignificance wheno* compared with AxtiveX which from the Chaos( Computer Club exploit onwards has been a( continued source of security violations.  . Java should give no control over your computer- at all. The one problem I have encountered iss! Java programs chewing CPU cycles.w  ( Running Java applications is a different) issue but your JVM in your browser shouldn* protect you against malicious downloadable content.   Regardsw Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:04:25 +0200a@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements+ Message-ID: <3D739A19.1020405@mail.tele.dk>e  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen wrote:F >> Such as most web-borne malware.   Java and JavaScript give too much/ >> control over my computer to unknown persons.c    # > Java and Javascript should not bee > placed in the same category.     True.@  6 But I think he do - he just mentioned two things, that is not making them the same.     $ > There have been very very few Java	 > exloitse    + As I recall it, then there were quite a few  back in 96-97 !   ( >           and those have almost always1 > been bugs in the JVM's, normally implimentationt+ > issues and not fundamental flaws in Java.D    6 That is ofcourse an important theoretical distinction,0 but from a practical point of view, then it does not matter.   - > Javascript has had numerous holes, but even + > Javascript pales into insignificance wheni > compared with AxtiveXd     Yep.  0 > Java should give no control over your computer	 > at all.a    +  > Running Java applications is a differents,  > issue but your JVM in your browser should-  > protect you against malicious downloadable   > content.   & True. If the JVM implementation is OK.  / And please remember that Microsoft JVM is stilla at 1.1.4 (from 1997) !   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 08:04:29 -07000. From: steve.cage@lombardodier.com (Steve Cage)# Subject: Remote Site Cluster Memberg= Message-ID: <f3316682.0209020704.4aedc6a1@posting.google.com>c   OpenVMS V7.2-1  B We currently have two Compaq DS20E's which are clustered utilizingD twin shared SCSI buses and a Quorum disk. Expected Votes is set to 3A with each node contributing 1 vote. The system disk is shared and4) shadowed utilizing the shared SCSI buses.   C This weekend we are going to add another DS20E to the cluster which B will have its disk drives (same capacity)  located in its internalA drive cage. This machine will be located at our Disaster Recovery @ site, which is approx 1 mile away and connected via a 100MB Full* Duplex Ethernet connection (Colt Lanlink).  E 	For the test we will use cluster_config.com to create a new root onr; the shared system disk and add the new node to the cluster.,3 	Boot the new node into the cluster over Ethernet.tD 	Add a disk on the new DS20E to the System Disk Shadow Set. Then we? should be able to boot the new machine of the local hard drive.s0 	Remove the Quorum disk with cluster_config.com- 	Shadow remaining data disks to remote site.w  F The whole point of adding the third member is to keep a real time copyF of data on a running system at a remote site in case disaster strikes.E My main question is how could we adjust expected_votes at remote site C if we lost main site and had to run on a single node (assuming linkeE was shutdown to avoid partitioning the cluster). I have tried this in 5 the past and the single node just dies when you boot.   9 Any other help you could offer would also be appreciated.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 16:51:10 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Remote Site Cluster Member ) Message-ID: <3D7388EE.79672B96@127.0.0.1>a   Steve Cage wrote:a >  > OpenVMS V7.2-1 ...r  : Simple question with a simple solution (this URL may wrap)  I http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/6017/6017pro_039.html#ipc_sec   H IPC, oddly enough documented under the "Storage" chapter. It is a manualE operation but so is breaking the network link to prevent partitioningcG issues. Present on VAX as well as Alpha, most known clustered versions.s  G Also, Availability Manager loaded on a PC at the remote centre can alsos force quorum for you.r   -- h? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesi nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 10:09:00 +0100m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>iB Subject: Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...)8 Message-ID: <dda6nuofqj8vh4m6ki0h7nvm03vtgslhb3@4ax.com>  A On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:48:21 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n wrote:  E >I think HP should get an injunction, this could cause some confusion  >in the marketplace.  E Lawyers for DEC and the vacuum cleaner manufacturer agreed long, longnF ago that they were happy as long as DEC never made vacuum cleaners and VAX never made computers.a  B Once upon a time the ads said "Nothing sucks like a VAX" and print> copies of these ads could often be found stuck to the sides ofD 11/780s. I thought this used to be in the VMS faq but it isn't there now.   >>-----Original Message-----+ >>From: Art Beane [mailto:beane@petris.com]i' >>Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:47 AMt >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.CommD >>Subject: Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...) >> >>
 >>Hey, Terry:  >>7 >>You forgot to provide a link to the new VAX products:a >>1 >>http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/navigation/flash.htmu >> >> >>---o( >>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A >>Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002  >> >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.a; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).e@ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:26:25 +0100d( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>B Subject: Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...)) Message-ID: <3D733CD1.87D70E91@127.0.0.1>d   Alan Greig wrote:  > C > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:48:21 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>r > wrote: > G > >I think HP should get an injunction, this could cause some confusionn > >in the marketplace. > G > Lawyers for DEC and the vacuum cleaner manufacturer agreed long, longiH > ago that they were happy as long as DEC never made vacuum cleaners and > VAX never made computers., > D > Once upon a time the ads said "Nothing sucks like a VAX" and print@ > copies of these ads could often be found stuck to the sides ofF > 11/780s. I thought this used to be in the VMS faq but it isn't there > now.  ) http://www.python.demon.co.uk/vax2000.jpg]  8 I got this around the same time I got a VAXstation 2000.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences^ nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 16:01:31 GMTI1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>nB Subject: Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...)= Message-ID: <vXLc9.90815$kp.733196@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:dda6nuofqj8vh4m6ki0h7nvm03vtgslhb3@4ax.com...C > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:48:21 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e > wrote: >oG > >I think HP should get an injunction, this could cause some confusione > >in the marketplace. >nG > Lawyers for DEC and the vacuum cleaner manufacturer agreed long, longmH > ago that they were happy as long as DEC never made vacuum cleaners and > VAX never made computers.t >bD > Once upon a time the ads said "Nothing sucks like a VAX" and print@ > copies of these ads could often be found stuck to the sides ofF > 11/780s. I thought this used to be in the VMS faq but it isn't there > now.  I All of the above is true. You can still buy a VAX vacuum cleaner. Back in K them days, folks could work things out without benefit of lawyers and such. ) I guess what we have today is "Progress."    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 16:43:03 GMT * From: "WarlockD" <warlockd@drakesmith.net>B Subject: Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...)/ Message-ID: <ryMc9.271661$983.530159@rwcrnsc53>v  I Heh, next thing you know, they will introduce the "Alpha Vax", 'Now sucksi. more volume than any of its Vax predecessors!"  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagec# news:3D733CD1.87D70E91@127.0.0.1...n Alan Greig wrote:  >nC > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:48:21 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>d > wrote: >tG > >I think HP should get an injunction, this could cause some confusionr > >in the marketplace. >iG > Lawyers for DEC and the vacuum cleaner manufacturer agreed long, longpH > ago that they were happy as long as DEC never made vacuum cleaners and > VAX never made computers.t >tD > Once upon a time the ads said "Nothing sucks like a VAX" and print@ > copies of these ads could often be found stuck to the sides ofF > 11/780s. I thought this used to be in the VMS faq but it isn't there > now.  ) http://www.python.demon.co.uk/vax2000.jpg   8 I got this around the same time I got a VAXstation 2000.   --? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences- nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 02 Sep 02 10:20:01 GMTR From: jmfbahciv@aol.comrJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?* Message-ID: <akvi6j$g9$3@bob.news.rcn.net>  - In article <akt9he$9o7@web.eng.baileynm.com>,c*    peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:+ >In article <3D718EC3.C1579C10@sunset.net>, ( >Tom Crabtre  <tccrab@sunset.net> wrote:H >> Actually, I'm sick of people who just complain how Compaq and now HP  screwedp >> them.A >> If DEC had such a good thing, Bill Gates would have bought it.  >r >Didn't he?y > 4 Nope.  That would have been an honest business move. He did something sneakier.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.a   ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 02 Sep 02 10:18:11 GMTt From: jmfbahciv@aol.comRJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?* Message-ID: <akvi35$g9$2@bob.news.rcn.net>  - In article <akt9fl$9ln@web.eng.baileynm.com>,>*    peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:A >In article <tGec9.63867$On.3196662@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,o* >Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:6 >> "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in message* >> news:akrrcn$cjj@web.eng.baileynm.com...3 >> > In article <ujTb9.236506$me6.32409@sccrnsc01>,i5 >> > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: K >> > > www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blatheri >> from  >> > > non-customer trolls.e >oD >> > Terry, neither you nor Bill have enough credibility left to be  spending itu >> > this profligately.r >sK >> I encourage you to be specific about anything I've said that you do not , feelH >> is credible, since I do make significant attempts to be accurate and  usuallyo+ >> have references available to back it up.h > J >It's not the content, it's the tone. I'm awfully tempted to just killfileF >the both of you. I don't killfile you because you *do* provide usefulG >information, and I don't killfile Terry because, well, I'll think of a  >reason. > ? There is a reason.  It may give you a clue of a thinking trend.a/ It also gives you an opportunity to say "NO!!".s   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.,   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:43:17 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>NJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?? Message-ID: <pGLc9.106987$_91.129564@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>0  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D72C1D4.38E1D586@fsi.net...  > Ray Fusci wrote: >$G > (Not really wrote, more like cut-and-pasted (since someone complainedi > about that...))7 >3
 > > [snip]J > > So how will we know when Digital is back on track? A good sign will beL > > when there's a stable management team in place -- one that is willing toF > > stick it out through the tough times and that insists on acceptingJ > > responsibility for the performance of its own organisation. As long asI > > Digital persists in pointing fingers outside the company, you can bet( that? > > things on the inside will continue to be...well...frenzied.n > >h( > > Don Tennant, Computerworld Hong Kong > # > B-mazing! A 20th Century prophet!a >dH > It'll be interesting to see who the prophets of the 21st Century / 3rd! > Millennium turn out to be .ly..h  K ChiComs, probably. 19th century belonged to the Brits, 20th belonged to therK US, 21st seems poised for China. So Tennant will habe to learn Mandarin. Or- how to pull a rickshaw.    >0 > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsn > http://www.djesys.com/ >:* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/1   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:59:06 GMTo1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>rJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?= Message-ID: <eVLc9.90780$kp.733167@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>z  I <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:akvi6j$g9$3@bob.news.rcn.net...c/ > In article <akt9he$9o7@web.eng.baileynm.com>,o, >    peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:- > >In article <3D718EC3.C1579C10@sunset.net>,t* > >Tom Crabtre  <tccrab@sunset.net> wrote:I > >> Actually, I'm sick of people who just complain how Compaq and now HPb	 > screwedE
 > >> them.C > >> If DEC had such a good thing, Bill Gates would have bought it.f > >a
 > >Didn't he?b  I I make a Small Joke. To all intents and purposes he seized control of thet! firm's strategy and product plas!    > >m6 > Nope.  That would have been an honest business move. > He did something sneakier.   Would you expct less? ;-}o    E PS-- Happy Labor Day to our Yank group members. At least this is lessi6 controversial Labor Day than last ear. So far, anyhow!   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 08:53:10 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>S( Subject: Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?; Message-ID: <01KM0PMD4MYQ9OCZIZ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  D > You need to append an asterisk to the logical name in question for" > SHOW LOGICAL to check all modes:   I've noticed this also.  Why?    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 00:06:08 -0700n% From: bart.zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)e( Subject: Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?= Message-ID: <9a924482.0209012306.2f7b438a@posting.google.com>   s SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<343f30ae.0208301705.56a456db@posting.google.com>...i] > Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message news:<ak7eko$npr$2@news1.xs4all.nl>...l? > > (I tried to post this through Google, but it didn't appear)a > > @ > > [ OpenVMS Alpha V7.3, I don't think any ECO's are relevant ] > > & > > Did anyone ever try the following? > > - > > $ TEMP = F$TRNLNM("SYSUAF",,,"EXECUTIVE")  > > & > > TEMP will contain "", in spite of: > >  > > $ SHOW LOGICAL/FULL SYSUAFH > >     "SYSUAF" [exec] = "<whereever>SYSUAF.DAT" (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE) > > G > > (No, it makes no difference if you have SYSUAF in LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)> > > 	 > > Also,e > >  > > $ TEMP = F$TRNLNM("SYSUAF")2 > > > > > gives the expected value in TEMP, "<whereever>SYSUAF.DAT". > >  > > I > > The reason seems to be that the default value for the second argument E > > to F$TRNLNM is LNM$DCL_LOGICAL. LNM$DCL_LOGICAL is, by default, anJ > > SUPERVISOR mode logical name which translates to LNM$FILE_DEV. BecauseF > > F$TRNLNM is instructed to ignore any equivalences in an outer modeG > > than EXECUTIVE, it does not use the equivalence of LNM$FILE_LOGICALJJ > > and therefore it has no table to look for SYSUAF. It does not issue an: > > error message, nor does it return a different $STATUS. > >  > > If I do: > > J > > $ DEFINE/EXEC/TABLE=LNM$PROCESS_DIRECTORY LNM$DCL_LOGICAL LNM$FILE_DEV- > > $ TEMP = F$TRNLNM("SYSUAF",,,"EXECUTIVE")p > >  > > I get the expected result. > >  > > OK, so far, so good. > > C > > The funny thing is, that LNM$FILE_DEV is also a SUPERVISOR modey > > logical name. But: > > ; > > $ TEMP = F$TRNLNM("SYSUAF","LNM$FILE_DEV",,"EXECUTIVE")a > > ( > > DOES give the translation of SYSUAF! > > ( > > This does not seem consistent to me. > >  > > Am I missing something?s > >  > > Regards, > > 
 > > Bart Zorn  >  > ? > The reason appears to be that LNM$FILE_DEV is defined both in-B > supervisor mode (as the usual search list -- see below) *and* in1 > executive mode as LNM$SYSTEM. That explains why> > ; > > $ TEMP = F$TRNLNM("SYSUAF","LNM$FILE_DEV",,"EXECUTIVE")n > G > works. In this case, F$TRNLNM is using the executive equivalence namesH > for LNM$FILE_DEV. If you define a logical name in the process table inE > executive mode, then the above won't work (if you replace SYSUAF byo  > that logical name, of course). > D > You need to append an asterisk to the logical name in question for" > SHOW LOGICAL to check all modes: >  >  > With trailing asterisk:h > : > $ SHOW LOGICAL/FULL LNM$FILE_DEV* /TABLE=LNM$DIRECTORIES > / > (LNM$PROCESS_DIRECTORY) [kernel]  [directory] 5 >                         [no protection information]  >  s9 > (LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY)  [kernel]  [shareable,directory]uF >                         [Protection=(RWC,RWC,R,R)]  [Owner=[SYSTEM]] >  o* >   "LNM$FILE_DEV" [super] = "LNM$PROCESS" >         = "LNM$JOB"o >         = "LNM$GROUP"a >         = "LNM$SYSTEM"( >   "LNM$FILE_DEV" [exec] = "LNM$SYSTEM" >  >  > Without trailing asterisk: > 9 > $ SHOW LOGICAL/FULL LNM$FILE_DEV /TABLE=LNM$DIRECTORIESpB >    "LNM$FILE_DEV" [super] = "LNM$PROCESS" (LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY) >         = "LNM$JOB"n >         = "LNM$GROUP"p >         = "LNM$SYSTEM"< > 1  "LNM$PROCESS" [kernel] = "LNM$PROCESS_TABLE" [terminal] > (LNM$PROCESS_DIRECTORY)m7 > 1  "LNM$JOB" [kernel] = "LNM$JOB_833959C0" [terminal]! > (LNM$PROCESS_DIRECTORY)-9 > 1  "LNM$GROUP" [kernel] = "LNM$GROUP_000050" [terminal]t > (LNM$PROCESS_DIRECTORY)SC > 1  "LNM$SYSTEM" [kernel,no_alias] = "LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE" [terminal]8 > (LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY) >  >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmant > spamsink2001 at yahoo dot coma  B Indeed, that is it! It suprises me that SHOW LOGICAL/FULL does not9 display both instances of the definition of LNM$FILE_DEV.   = Anyway, F$TRNLNM behaves consistently and that's what counts!I   Thanks for pointing this out.o   Regards,  	 Bart Zornt   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 06:29:54 -0600t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l( Subject: Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?3 Message-ID: <fKpyNBZI25ja@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  w In article <01KM0PMD4MYQ9OCZIZ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:oE >> You need to append an asterisk to the logical name in question fort# >> SHOW LOGICAL to check all modes:t >  > I've noticed this also.  Why?0  @ I think you will find the difference is not "to check all modes"1 but "to find additional matches after the first".e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:21:28 +0200t9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o( Subject: Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?' Message-ID: <3D7357C8.C7E7B69C@aaa.com>e  . I find additional matches after the first even without the asterisk :   $ sh log trace_root27    "TRACE_ROOT2" = "DSA200:[TRACE.]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)a     $ define trace_root2 sfsfg   $ sh log trace_root2-    "TRACE_ROOT2" = "SFSF" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) 7    "TRACE_ROOT2" = "DSA200:[TRACE.]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)u      . The asterisk just make it a bit more verbose :     $ sh log trace_root2*0   (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)m     "TRACE_ROOT2" = "SFSF"   (LNM$JOB_80FC4AC0)   (LNM$GROUP_000001)   (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  #   "TRACE_ROOT2" = "DSA200:[TRACE.]"a   (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)   (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)   $ deas trace_root2     Best Regards Jan-Erik Sderholm.w Larry Kilgallen wrote: > y > In article <01KM0PMD4MYQ9OCZIZ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:oG > >> You need to append an asterisk to the logical name in question forr% > >> SHOW LOGICAL to check all modes:w > >s! > > I've noticed this also.  Why?i > B > I think you will find the difference is not "to check all modes"3 > but "to find additional matches after the first".a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:07:43 +0400-/ From: Konstantin Klubnichkin <kostik@beenet.ru>0 Subject: Stupid newbie questiong( Message-ID: <3D730E3F.6040903@beenet.ru>   Hi ppl!h  
 I'm confused.r/ How to pass parameters to programm? Like unzip?l= And what is the procedure of installing executables into VMS?"C First of all I get binary and put it to VAX (via DECnet for Linux).h Then RUN UNZIP.VAX_EXE;1o It says me about it parameters.r& Then RUN UNZIP.VAX_EXE;1 blablabla.zipH and system replies something about "too much parameters to programm".... What am I doing wrong?   Thanks!a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 09:34:00 +0200a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> # Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question ' Message-ID: <3D731468.44707F86@aaa.com>e  9 To pass parameters to an image in VMS, you have to createm a symbol first :  # $ unzip :== $dev:[dir]unzip.vax_exe   4 where dev:[dir] is whereever you have put the image.   Then you can do :a   $ unzip param1 param2 ....   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Konstantin Klubnichkin wrote:i > 	 > Hi ppl!A >  > I'm confused.t1 > How to pass parameters to programm? Like unzip? ? > And what is the procedure of installing executables into VMS?yE > First of all I get binary and put it to VAX (via DECnet for Linux).V > Then > RUN UNZIP.VAX_EXE;1t! > It says me about it parameters.a( > Then RUN UNZIP.VAX_EXE;1 blablabla.zipJ > and system replies something about "too much parameters to programm".... > What am I doing wrong? > 	 > Thanks!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:31:06 +100021 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> # Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question:, Message-ID: <3D732FDA.1060702@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: ; > To pass parameters to an image in VMS, you have to create  > a symbol first : > % > $ unzip :== $dev:[dir]unzip.vax_exeu > 6 > where dev:[dir] is whereever you have put the image. >  > Then you can do :  >  > $ unzip param1 param2 .... >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.n >  > Konstantin Klubnichkin wrote:a > 	 >>Hi ppl!e >> >>I'm confused.e1 >>How to pass parameters to programm? Like unzip?o? >>And what is the procedure of installing executables into VMS?iE >>First of all I get binary and put it to VAX (via DECnet for Linux).I >>Then >>RUN UNZIP.VAX_EXE;1 ! >>It says me about it parameters. ( >>Then RUN UNZIP.VAX_EXE;1 blablabla.zipJ >>and system replies something about "too much parameters to programm".... >>What am I doing wrong? >> >>Thanks >  > !r  D What Jan-Erik has said is exeactly true, but since VMS 6.2 (I can't H remember before that), if the DCL$PATH logical points to where you keep H all your utility type executables or command files, they will run as if G a symbol by just using their name.  Just for your further information,  5 what Jan-Erik described is called a "foreign symbol".e   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************e  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedi> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviselB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.o  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid tA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with rC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment."-  G ***********************************************************************m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 12:05:52 +0100) From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>3# Subject: Re: Stupid newbie questiono) Message-ID: <3D734610.37388018@Omond.net>,   Konstantin Klubnichkin wrote:y   > Paddy O'Brien wrote: > >N > >e > > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:o > > > > >> To pass parameters to an image in VMS, you have to create > >> a symbol first :g > >>( > >> $ unzip :== $dev:[dir]unzip.vax_exe >d7 > For example unzip.vax_exe is in user$dia1:[utils], soh+ > $ unzip:== user$dia1:[utils]unzip.vax_exek >l) > Not unzip:== "run user$dia1:blablabla"?c  , Note that the $ (as in $dev:) *IS* required.  	 Roy Omondh Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:52:43 +0400u/ From: Konstantin Klubnichkin <kostik@beenet.ru>"# Subject: Re: Stupid newbie questionl( Message-ID: <3D7342FB.1080800@beenet.ru>   Paddy O'Brien wrote: >  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:t > < >> To pass parameters to an image in VMS, you have to create >> a symbol first :a >>& >> $ unzip :== $dev:[dir]unzip.vax_exe  5 For example unzip.vax_exe is in user$dia1:[utils], soe) $ unzip:== user$dia1:[utils]unzip.vax_exe-  ' Not unzip:== "run user$dia1:blablabla"?:       > F > What Jan-Erik has said is exeactly true, but since VMS 6.2 (I can't J > remember before that), if the DCL$PATH logical points to where you keep J > all your utility type executables or command files, they will run as if I > a symbol by just using their name.  Just for your further information, e7 > what Jan-Erik described is called a "foreign symbol".o  7 :) I gave VMS 5.5-2 now, so I dont have this feature :)t   >  > Regards, Paddy >    Thanks!B
 Best regards,  Konstantin Klubnichkin   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 13:15:38 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-# Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question-; Message-ID: <01KM0YPE7NOC9QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  * > > >> $ unzip :== $dev:[dir]unzip.vax_exe > > 9 > > For example unzip.vax_exe is in user$dia1:[utils], son- > > $ unzip:== user$dia1:[utils]unzip.vax_exeb > >n+ > > Not unzip:== "run user$dia1:blablabla"?  > . > Note that the $ (as in $dev:) *IS* required.   A lot of confusion here, folks!<  8 A foreign command (not a "foreign symbol") is defined as  + $  <command-name> == "$<device><dir><file>"w   For example,  # $  ZIP == "$DISK$SOFT:[ZIP]ZIP.EXE"e  , would define ZIP as a foreign command.  Note      o  no "RUN"  F    o  the path name has to have a $ in front WHICH IS NOT PART OF THE        PATH NAME>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:30:06 +0400h/ From: Konstantin Klubnichkin <kostik@beenet.ru> # Subject: Re: Stupid newbie questionc( Message-ID: <3D734BBE.6060701@beenet.ru>   Phillip Helbig wrote:,( >>>>>$ unzip :== $dev:[dir]unzip.vax_exe >>>>8 >>>For example unzip.vax_exe is in user$dia1:[utils], so, >>>$ unzip:== user$dia1:[utils]unzip.vax_exe >>>o* >>>Not unzip:== "run user$dia1:blablabla"? >>. >>Note that the $ (as in $dev:) *IS* required. >  > ! > A lot of confusion here, folks!a > : > A foreign command (not a "foreign symbol") is defined as > - > $  <command-name> == "$<device><dir><file>"  >  > For example, > % > $  ZIP == "$DISK$SOFT:[ZIP]ZIP.EXE"t > . > would define ZIP as a foreign command.  Note >  >    o  no "RUN" > H >    o  the path name has to have a $ in front WHICH IS NOT PART OF THE  >       PATH NAMEr >    Just to make it clear for me :I I have a disk  USER$DIA1: (BTW, am I right that it is _device_name_, not L
 logical? ) I should write:1" zip == "$USER$DIA1:[UTILS]ZIP.EXE" Right?     Thanks!f
 Best regards,n Konstantin Klubnichkin  1 P.S. Sorry for stupidity, just beginning with VMSr   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 13:40:53 +0100 (MET))9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> # Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question ; Message-ID: <01KM0ZKCSD1E9QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i  K > I have a disk  USER$DIA1: (BTW, am I right that it is _device_name_, not p > logical? ) > I should write:p$ > zip == "$USER$DIA1:[UTILS]ZIP.EXE" > Right?   YES!  * USER$DIA1 is very probably a logical.  DO       $  SHOW LOGICAL USER$IA1    to see its translation.o  B In general, you should always use logical names when you refer to D physical disks.  Imagine if the name changes.  With a logical, just G change the definition.  Otherwise, you have to change all the commands m% etc which refer to the physical name.a   Generally, r      $  SHOW LOGICAL/FULLt  G should look like something like this when it is used as a general name o% for the disk for applications to use:k  K    "DISK$ALPHASYS" [exec] = "DSA0:" [concealed,terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)y  G That is, executive mode, system table, with the concealed and terminal . attributes.1   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:51:49 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com># Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question 6 Message-ID: <1020902074633.31385A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  1 On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Konstantin Klubnichkin wrote:p   > Paddy O'Brien wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > > Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote:s > >=20> > >> To pass parameters to an image in VMS, you have to create > >> a symbol first :S > >>, > >> $ unzip :=3D=3D $dev:[dir]unzip.vax_exe >=207 > For example unzip.vax_exe is in user$dia1:[utils], soa/ > $ unzip:=3D=3D user$dia1:[utils]unzip.vax_exep >=20- > Not unzip:=3D=3D "run user$dia1:blablabla"?a  = In general, you can define commands to run programs that way,D9 but it isn't useful for zip or for any other program thats: wants command lines, because you can't pass any additional
 arguments.  > This is covered in the FAQ.  Please read it.  (If there was an7 internet-wide contest for useful FAQ's, I think the VMSS" FAQ would be a serious contender.)    @          The OpenVMS FAQ is archived in (at least) the following          locations:   *          o  http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  6          o  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/comp.os.vms/  4          o  comp.answers and news.answers newsgroups             o  http://www.faqs.org/  "          o  http://www.google.com/  &          o  http://www.kjsl.com/vmsfaq  /          o  http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htmC   > >=20J > > What Jan-Erik has said is exeactly true, but since VMS 6.2 (I can't=20L > > remember before that), if the DCL$PATH logical points to where you keep= =20uL > > all your utility type executables or command files, they will run as if= =20oK > > a symbol by just using their name.  Just for your further information,=g =20s9 > > what Jan-Erik described is called a "foreign symbol".a >=209 > :) I gave VMS 5.5-2 now, so I dont have this feature :)p >=20 > >=20 > > Regards, Paddy > >=20 >=20	 > Thanks!  > Best regards,d > Konstantin Klubnichkin >=20 >=20 >=20   --=20  John Santos' Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 13:04:02 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk># Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question , Message-ID: <akvk2l$13kk@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  _ "Konstantin Klubnichkin" <kostik@beenet.ru> wrote in message news:3D7342FB.1080800@beenet.ru...>  7 > For example unzip.vax_exe is in user$dia1:[utils], so + > $ unzip:== user$dia1:[utils]unzip.vax_exe<.    $  unzip:== $user$dia1:[utils]unzip.vax_exe   Also see the FAQ:h= http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_008.html#dcl1M   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 13:14:28 +0100a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question ) Message-ID: <3D735624.2034FD4E@127.0.0.1>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  > L > > I have a disk  USER$DIA1: (BTW, am I right that it is _device_name_, not > > logical? ) > > I should write:n& > > zip == "$USER$DIA1:[UTILS]ZIP.EXE"
 > > Right? >  > YES! > + > USER$DIA1 is very probably a logical.  DON >  >    $  SHOW LOGICAL USER$IA1  >  > to see its translation.N  F Um, its an RF device, and I'd expect that USER is its nodename and its ALLCLASS is 0.  G The correct logical to use will be the one assigned when it was mountedSG (see MOUNT command in documentation) and generally is DISK$volume-labelN if not redefined.T  F However, arguably, there could be a logical pointing at the UTILS area" which would (may) be better still.  G I've seen a logical USER$DISK, where that logical equates to DSK46: and G in turn that points to DUA46: and people then try also using $1$DKA406:uH after countless data migrations. This is not helped when someone picks a@ logical name far longer than it ought to be so folks avoid using> USER_DISK_FILES_000123 over DUA46:. Weaning folks out of thoseA situations is always quite interesting, any war stories to share,I anyone?f   -- f? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot comi   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 08:35:22 -0700 ! From: soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro)o# Subject: Re: Stupid newbie questionG= Message-ID: <d5440555.0209020735.7b74735a@posting.google.com>   + Konstantin Klubnichkin <kostik@beenet.ru> :M7 > For example unzip.vax_exe is in user$dia1:[utils], sor+ > $ unzip:== user$dia1:[utils]unzip.vax_exec > ) > Not unzip:== "run user$dia1:blablabla"?R  N Not. And please note that you missed the first dollar sign from Jan's example. So you will have the line:  + $ unzip :== $user$dia1:[utils]unzip.vax_exe"   Regards, SL   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 16:00:53 +0400_/ From: Konstantin Klubnichkin <kostik@beenet.ru>i6 Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question - Thanks everybody& Message-ID: <3D7352F5.10404@beenet.ru>   Thanks everybody!O  
 Best regards,_ Konstantin Klubnichkin   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:22:59 +0100R' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>r6 Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question - Thanks everybody2 Message-ID: <020920021422595451%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  = In article <3D7352F5.10404@beenet.ru>, Konstantin Klubnichkinm <kostik@beenet.ru> wrote:C   > Thanks everybody!M >  > Best regards,  > Konstantin Klubnichkin  E This really is a very helpful ng in between the political rabbitings.d (of which I'm sometimes guilty)   G I'd forgotten the dcl$path trick, so I was glad you asked the question.   ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 17:30:28 +0400h/ From: Konstantin Klubnichkin <kostik@beenet.ru>n6 Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question - Thanks everybody( Message-ID: <3D7367F4.1040906@beenet.ru>   Elliott Roper wrote:? > In article <3D7352F5.10404@beenet.ru>, Konstantin Klubnichkinr > <kostik@beenet.ru> wrote:s >  >  >>Thanks everybody!e >> >>Best regards,  >>Konstantin Klubnichkin >  > G > This really is a very helpful ng in between the political rabbitings.c! > (of which I'm sometimes guilty)  > I > I'd forgotten the dcl$path trick, so I was glad you asked the question.m >  ;-)   :) Great :)c* Now I have to upgrade to VMS 6+ to use it?I Another survey - I dont have CDROM (and even SCSI bus) in my uVAX-3800 - eE only Linux box with DECnet (and problems with understanding why pure  - binary transfer can affect file structure :))8    
 Best regards,? Konstantin Klubnichkin   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:42:51 +0200e9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 6 Subject: Re: Stupid newbie question - Thanks everybody' Message-ID: <3D736ADB.83F251C1@aaa.com>    Konstantin Klubnichkin wrote:  > 
 > :) Great :)2, > Now I have to upgrade to VMS 6+ to use it?J > Another survey - I dont have CDROM (and even SCSI bus) in my uVAX-3800 -F > only Linux box with DECnet (and problems with understanding why pure/ > binary transfer can affect file structure :))     ? On unix, all files are 512 bytes blocks binary files delimiter.T@ Then, of course, some application can decide to have a file with= 1024 byte blocks, but the filesystem have no idea about this.r  G On VMS, the "Recordsize", and a lot of other file attributes, are knownZA to the filesystem itself, and it's recorded into the file header.h  ? A binary transfer using FTP always creates the output file withl 512 byte records.t  > Use ZIP/UNZIP to copy binary VMS files over some non-VMS link.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.i   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 08:52:20 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-* Subject: Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question; Message-ID: <01KM0PL6C55E9OCZIZ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  @ > FYI, there are private addresses in each of the three classes.G > 10.x.x.x is a private network, with the natural netmask of 255.0.0.0.g, > As are 172.0.x.x to 172.31.x.x in class B.  + Shouldn't that be 172.0.16.x to 172.31.x.x?a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:37:03 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e* Subject: Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question/ Message-ID: <un74tkon8gf429@news.supernews.com>p  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KM0PL6C55E9OCZIZ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...0B > > FYI, there are private addresses in each of the three classes.I > > 10.x.x.x is a private network, with the natural netmask of 255.0.0.0.c. > > As are 172.0.x.x to 172.31.x.x in class B. >h- > Shouldn't that be 172.0.16.x to 172.31.x.x?   & Actually it's 172.16.x.x to 172.31.x.x  1 The complete set of private IP address ranges is:n   One class Ai   10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255   15 class B's   172.16.0.0 to 172.31.255.255  
 255 class C's    192.168.0.0 to 192.168.255.255   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 18:19:47 +0200a2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)* Subject: Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question; Message-ID: <3d738fa3.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>a  : Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:B > > FYI, there are private addresses in each of the three classes.I > > 10.x.x.x is a private network, with the natural netmask of 255.0.0.0. . > > As are 172.0.x.x to 172.31.x.x in class B. >d- > Shouldn't that be 172.0.16.x to 172.31.x.x?c  3 Not quite, but nearer to the real thing than me ;-)0  8 It's 172.16.x.x to 172.31.x.x, i.e. 16 class B networks.  D Thanks for the reminder to not trust my memory, but look it up again, (at ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1918.txt).   cu,h   Martin -- sJ One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.desJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:28:03 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> * Subject: The real reason HP bought Compaq?8 Message-ID: <t6t6nuk9k4hm5ptvuo188vk4nn1qjflhi6@4ax.com>  / They just wanted the "all-in-one" trademark :-)u  4 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/26aug02a.htmA HP (NYSE:HPQ) today announced a new family of all-in-one printers,D designed from the ground up to meet the changing needs of consumers.D The company's all-in-one lineup offers consumers breakthrough print,2 scan and copy technologies that historically have  -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2002 03:47:46 -0700i1 From: svend.jarzombek@alcoa.com (Svend Jarzombek)yP Subject: UCX020B (UCX 2.0-03) - How to transfer file names with version numbers?= Message-ID: <36d31132.0209020247.7616a48a@posting.google.com>i  ; We bought a second hand coordinate measuring machine with ao= VAXstation4000-60 that hosts the machine control for the CMM.cB Operating system is OpenVMS 5.5.1.0, TCPIP software is UCX020B. NoF chance to update the operating system due to machine control software.> We need to transfer files from the VAXstation to UNIX systems.C If I specify "put filename.dat;*", all versions from the VMS systemdF are transfered to "filename.dat" on the UNIX system. So after the fileD transfer is done, the eldest version of filename.dat is the only one% that is available on the UNIX system.s  C We did not receive any written documentation of UCX020B. The onlineiF documentation does not tell how to change parameters for transfer with version numbers.   Can anybody help?*   Thanks in advance-     Svend Jarzombek- ALCOA Automotive GmbH0 Information Technology
 Overweg 24 D-59494 Soest, Germany! e-mail: svend.jarzombek@alcoa.coms       P.S.:4. Status of the FTP connection is the following:/ Local client's status:                          - Connected to: xyz                            a/ VMS Plus mode disabled                         a/ Mode = stream , Type = ascii, Form = non_print,=/ Reply display is on                            ./ Parsing is on                                  =/ Prompting is off                               :/ Port command is on                              / Case: Filenames will be transfered in lowercaseB   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 12:05:37 +01002( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: UCX020B (UCX 2.0-03) - How to transfer file names with version numbers? numbn) Message-ID: <3D734601.869A6CE6@127.0.0.1>a   Svend Jarzombek wrote: > = > We bought a second hand coordinate measuring machine with a>? > VAXstation4000-60 that hosts the machine control for the CMM. D > Operating system is OpenVMS 5.5.1.0, TCPIP software is UCX020B. NoH > chance to update the operating system due to machine control software.@ > We need to transfer files from the VAXstation to UNIX systems.E > If I specify "put filename.dat;*", all versions from the VMS system H > are transfered to "filename.dat" on the UNIX system. So after the fileF > transfer is done, the eldest version of filename.dat is the only one' > that is available on the UNIX system.  > E > We did not receive any written documentation of UCX020B. The onlineoH > documentation does not tell how to change parameters for transfer with > version numbers.  5 UNIX does not have a concept of file version numbers.,  H Therefore, your best course of action would be to use a DCL command fileF to copy the files to a temporary area on the VMS system, giving them aH name which reflects their version, and performing the file transfer from
 that area.   e.g.  , filename.dat;3 filename.dat;2 filename.dat;1   copy to:  6 filename.dat-3;1 filename.dat-2;1 and filename.dat-1;1  F (I added the ;1 for completeness). You'll know what you'll end up with after transfer.q  D That naming scheme may not support the processing model on your UNIX= system, so pick one that makes life easy for you. Also bewareeH transitions from single to double and more digits in version numbers canG affect the file search order from the UNIX system depending what namingh scheme you devise.  G You'll probably make use of the lexicals f$search("filename.dat;*") and-H f$parse(symbol,,"VERSION") in your command file to perform the copy. See% $ HELP LEXICALS for more information.u   -- R? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:18:47 -05002 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> Subject: Re: VMS for i86/ Message-ID: <un6lp8cv0k00d4@corp.supernews.com>b  G David, other readers - I am not trying to "get your blood boiling", butfJ don't think that a partially working shell or emulation of DCL will give aK new user much of the real "feel" of OpenVMS, especially when for about $100xK US (with a little luck and care) one can have their own small VAX or Alpha. A Access to real OpenVMS, with all of the HELP files, etc. & onlinehE documentation would be, at least in my opinion, a better start. Also,NJ a VAX emulator running real OpenVMS would be better than a shell emulating DCL; you would bei@ booting the actual OpenVMS media and running the real (software) environment.  I Also, I like playing with hardware and will often (certainly not allways).L recommend it to others as a hobby. My best friend is a Reactor Operator at aJ nearby power plant (Alabama) and for relaxation, builds PC's for the localK Boys Club and some Churches. He finds it relaxing compared to the stress ofsJ running the plant. It is keeping Windows working on the PC's that he finds
 stressful.  L Ken Olsen reportedly killed a project many years ago to port OpenVMS to EISAK based Intel PC hardware (or so I was told by a then DEC employee at a DECUSr
 symposia).3 Let's blame him for the demise of DEC, OpenVMS, andsL all of our irritations, shall we? He also reportedly killed off a "portable"L VAX, a kind of a "luggable" laptop; one was actually shown at DECUS. WhetherI these things are true or not, and I do actually believe they are, I thinksF that HAD DEC ported OpenVMS to PC architecture, then OS/2, Windows NT,I perhaps Windows 95+ even - would not exist today. We would all be running I OpenVMS or perhaps some flavor of u**x. I don't think OpenVMS on PC would"1 have affected the development of NetBSD or Linux.T  K I have 21 years of experience with DEC computers to back my opinions up; mylJ opinions are just that - mine. All others mileage may vary. Best wishes to all!   Regards, Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter.net:   ----- Original Message -----1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>> Newsgroups: comp.os.vmso' Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 8:55 PM' Subject: Re: VMS for i86 > G > I just got done reading the other responses, and I'll withold commentmD > for now, at least until my blood slows down from a vigorous, full,  > rolling boil to a slow simmer. >  > -- > David J. Dachteraa > dba DJE Systemsa > http://www.djesys.com/ >=* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D7178C7.F2C2E6A5@fsi.net...  > Carlos de Paula wrote: > >aA > > Does anybody know if there is a VMS (small version) for InteluG > > plataforms. I would like to play with it. Where can I get a copy of  > > it?w > " > For now, go with Didier's links. >MG > I just got done reading the other responses, and I'll withold commentrD > for now, at least until my blood slows down from a vigorous, full,  > rolling boil to a slow simmer. >  > -- > David J. Dachterau > dba DJE Systems. > http://www.djesys.com/ >e* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 15:58:12 +01008 From: "Hansford, Paul (ELS)" <P.Hansford@elsevier.co.uk>% Subject: RE: VMS performance softwareuA Message-ID: <2EA918FE7CC6FB4BA0510D671ADB2AB40D7A31@elsoxfs02604>   G Many thanks, to everyone who responded to my queries on VMS performance 	 software.   K I have downloaded ECP (as it is free) and I will let you know how I get on.n   Regardsf Paul   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.484 ************************