1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 04 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 487       Contents: Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article RE: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article2 Re: Alpha system model # changing after an upgrade2 Re: Alpha system model # changing after an upgrade2 Re: Alpha system model # changing after an upgrade0 Re: Alpha vs Vax? Humm How about a DEC 3000 400?	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm # Re: Another stupid newbie question. % Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK % Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK % Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK  Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Escape Sequences Re: Help installing Pine7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax 7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax  Re: Itanic2 performance 5 Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application  Re: Mozilla 1.1 burner of CPU  Networking with Alpha Server OpenSSL woes( Re: OpenVMS v7.3 - setting the time zone Re: OT: Active Directory Re: OT: Active Directory Re: Please Sum it up.  Re: Please Sum it up.  Re: Please Sum it up.  Re: Please Sum it up.  Re: Remote Site Cluster Member Re: Remote Site Cluster Member Re: Remote Site Cluster Member" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour? ! Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question ! Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question ! Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 08:57:48 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: "inview" Article = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0209030757.5bfe9ec2@posting.google.com>   u "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<hYWc9.374557$m91.14971455@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... L > VMS and Unix are not fault-tolerant in the same way NSK is in the sense ofH > guaranteeing *correct* continuing operation in the presence of a faultL > (because they don't have the hardware-level lock-step consistency checking > that NSK has)   F Have you forgotten the ftVAX?  VMS can run on fault-tolerant hardware.>  What would prevent VMS from running on the same Itanium-based' hardware platform as NSK in the future?   3 > While there are elements of the VMS approach that K > are a bit more flexible and certainly more mature, they don't rise to the J > level of dramatic differentiation any more and are rapidly ceasing to be# > significant at all for most uses.   E I think you're giving the mainstream Unix cluster implementations far A too much benefit of the doubt, Bill.  Or were you thinking mostly  about TruClusters?  F I've been studying non-VMS cluster implementations quite a bit lately,@ and the more I do, the more impressed I am with what VMS can do.  F I was looking at disaster-tolerant clusters under HP-UX, for example. F (See http://docs.hp.com/hpux/ha/).  Each system can only have one voteD (not zero, not 2, just 1).  This means the number of nodes (not justD votes) at each site needs to be equal.  And, surprisingly, if a nodeF fails at one of the two sites, you have to shoot a perfectly-good node0 at the opposite site to keep the votes balanced.  D Another example: Many of the non-VMS cluster implementations use EMCD SRDF or Hitachi (aka HP SureStore E Disk Array) Continuous Access XPC to do controller-based mirroring between sites.  If you want to run @ Oracle Parallel Server, you can only run that on a subset of theD cluster nodes (the nodes at one site), since you can only access the: data through the controller which is "primary" for a givenD 'mirrorset'.  In a VMS cluster, you can run OPS on all the nodes, at both sites, at once.  @ TruCluster technology is head-and-shoulders above the other UnixA cluster implementations.  HP-UX is lucky to be the beneficiary of E those improvements.  But even TruCluster has a ways to go to catch up > with VMS, especially in maturity and stability.  And VMS isn't standing still, either. . ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 16:10:39 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: "inview" Article 3 Message-ID: <qHhl7l+0tLKT@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <al2s4m$4ev$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: > 4 > It all depends what you want to do with a cluster. > 1 > If you want to provide a resiliant scalable web 3 > server infrastructure then neither NSK or OpenVMS 2 > are the "Gold Standard" for this kind of service4 > because the facilites they offer are not required.  :    And the facilities they provide hurt how?  In fact the 7    facilitites VMS provides can be used to make a more  >    reliable web server than most other clusters can provide.  :    If your bussiness is ebussiness, your . in .com better 
    be VMS.   > Ditto an apps server cluster.  > 3 > If you want a shared nothing compute cluster then 8 > you will also find that there are different contenders3 > for the "Gold Standard" none of which require NSK 2 > or OpenVMS. If you want to verify this then look1 > no further than the top500 list where there are 0 > laods of shared nothing clusters none of which$ > are running either NSK or OpenVMS.  ;    Did you ever try to compute in a shared nothing cluster? :    Sure limits what you can compute.  Witness the original4    reason DEC came up with a VAXcluster:  to provide4    a computing environment with more horsepower than$    any one VAX they had at the time.  4 > The problem is that clusters cover everything from2 > Compute, to Web to Apps to file and DBMS. No one3 > cluster technology is the "Gold Standard" because 2 > one one technology is suitable for all the tasks > that you may need to run.   6    Guess again.  VMS is suitable for all of the above.0    Some other clusters might not be, but VMS is.  4 > You could go as far as to say the one applications0 > cluster technology "Gold Standard" is anothers > chocolate teapot.   2    Must be some kinda chocolate, since it can keep0    all the eaters happy.  Hershey would like the1    recipe, but they're too busy fighting over the     sale.  / > I would also disagree with the idea that UNIX 1 > clusters use the same "paradigm" as NSK, infact " > most UNIX clusters are much more% > analogous to VMS clusters than NSK.   6    Get real.  Most UNIX clusters are more analogous to7    MS clusters, with just a little automation poured on     top.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 23:50:54 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: "inview" Article C Message-ID: <yVbd9.394138$m91.15563431@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:qHhl7l+0tLKT@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > In article <al2s4m$4ev$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUKA Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:  > > 6 > > It all depends what you want to do with a cluster. > > 3 > > If you want to provide a resiliant scalable web 5 > > server infrastructure then neither NSK or OpenVMS 4 > > are the "Gold Standard" for this kind of service6 > > because the facilites they offer are not required. > ; >    And the facilities they provide hurt how?  In fact the 8 >    facilitites VMS provides can be used to make a more> >    reliable web server than most other clusters can provide.; >    If your bussiness is ebussiness, your . in .com better  >    be VMS.  K Unfortunately, as has been pointed out with what I would have considered to J be a more than adequate frequency, there's the small matter of third-partyI software availability to consider in that decision.  And in any event the J point was not that VMS's additional flexibility hurt in any way, just that9 it didn't help significantly either in many applications.    > ! > > Ditto an apps server cluster.  > > 5 > > If you want a shared nothing compute cluster then : > > you will also find that there are different contenders5 > > for the "Gold Standard" none of which require NSK 4 > > or OpenVMS. If you want to verify this then look3 > > no further than the top500 list where there are 2 > > laods of shared nothing clusters none of which& > > are running either NSK or OpenVMS. > = >    Did you ever try to compute in a shared nothing cluster? < >    Sure limits what you can compute.  Witness the original6 >    reason DEC came up with a VAXcluster:  to provide6 >    a computing environment with more horsepower than& >    any one VAX they had at the time.  J You'll really have to amplify what you mean by that statement considerablyK to avoid having it appear truly confused:  as far as computational activity I goes, most clusters look pretty much alike (save for those that implement  shared memory).    > 6 > > The problem is that clusters cover everything from4 > > Compute, to Web to Apps to file and DBMS. No one5 > > cluster technology is the "Gold Standard" because 4 > > one one technology is suitable for all the tasks > > that you may need to run.  > 8 >    Guess again.  VMS is suitable for all of the above.2 >    Some other clusters might not be, but VMS is.  L That's one I can agree with whole-heartedly:  while the added VMS facilitiesK may not be all that critical to a great deal of clustering uses, VMS beyond D any shadow of a doubt provides basic clustering capability that is aK superset of anyone else's (though that's not as true of the underlying OS - I e.g., in not providing at least as an option a log-protected file system, A which can be more appropriate than ODS-2 in *some* applications).    ...   1 > > I would also disagree with the idea that UNIX 3 > > clusters use the same "paradigm" as NSK, infact $ > > most UNIX clusters are much more' > > analogous to VMS clusters than NSK.  > 8 >    Get real.  Most UNIX clusters are more analogous to9 >    MS clusters, with just a little automation poured on 	 >    top.   J I fear that your major deficiencies of knowledge about what you're talking about are showing.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 01:33:52 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: "inview" Article K Message-ID: <4qdd9.160603$8aG1.120799@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   A "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message * news:3D74F590.26AEDEC8@blueyonder.co.uk... > I > Does it matter unless HP start saying loud and clear they have a better 
 clustering& > solution than any available on Unix?     All they have to say is:    "           For the best         Unix cluster around,    choose HP-UX with Tru-64)        cluster technology. (from Digital)             And for those who refuse !       to use nothing but the best            cluster technology, 1      choose OpenVMS clusters. (also from Digital)     ' For the best in technology, buy Digital        ...Compaq did,      ...and so did we.           OpenVMS,        only from HP.          (this week) "  * (c) 2002, John Smith. All Rights Reserved.   :-)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 23:13:04 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: "inview" Article T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026609A0@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bob,  C An example where OpenVMS clusters provide additional value as a web  and/or app server -   E - common system disk (real SSI i.e.. no requirement for separate boot G disk partitions with "common" code shared as in some UNIX clusters that C claim to have SSI. This is analogous in the OpenVMS realm to having > sys$common on a common system disk, but requiring sys$specificH directories to be on separate disks - RAIDED of course for availability)< - common Apache disk i.e.. Apache$common and Apache$specificE directories. Great for helping to keep files in sync and for upgrades < i.e. upgrade once and all servers are done. Change a file inG Apache$common and automatically all servers can use. Upgrading separate D and unique OS and Apache versions could be more a chore with 20+ Web  servers on non-OpenVMS clusters.H - Using Galaxy, with database on one OS partition and Web/App servers onG other partitions, one can share the CPU's between OS instances based on F - time of day, actual loads (who needs the extra CPU's gets them), andC /or manual drag-n-drop.  If the database partition needs additional G cpu's for after hours maint crunching, then a rule can be setup to make  this happen.H - clustered batch system makes batch jobs easier to run and load balance# amongst available system resources. C - clustered disk quota's ensure processes do not run away with disk + space - no matter what node they run on.=20 E - clustered security monitoring ensure hacker can not hit a number of H servers, try 3 times, fail and then be successful attacking a subsequentA server. With OpenVMS clusters, one setup security such that any 3 C attempts at any server in the cluster locks out that account on all  servers in the cluster. = - With Oracle 8i/9i, one can use shared memory as the cluster ? interconnect for Oracle back end databases amongst different OS < partitions on GS Series AlphaServers. Extremely fast cluster communication mechanism.D - Native class scheduler ensures one group of processes does not get9 more CPU resources than it has been previously allocated.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]=20  Sent: September 3, 2002 6:11 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: "inview" Article     F In article <al2s4m$4ev$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUKA Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:  >=204 > It all depends what you want to do with a cluster. >=201 > If you want to provide a resiliant scalable web 3 > server infrastructure then neither NSK or OpenVMS 2 > are the "Gold Standard" for this kind of service4 > because the facilites they offer are not required.  <    And the facilities they provide hurt how?  In fact the=209    facilitites VMS provides can be used to make a more=20 @    reliable web server than most other clusters can provide. =20<    If your bussiness is ebussiness, your . in .com better=20
    be VMS.   > Ditto an apps server cluster.  >=203 > If you want a shared nothing compute cluster then 8 > you will also find that there are different contenders3 > for the "Gold Standard" none of which require NSK 2 > or OpenVMS. If you want to verify this then look1 > no further than the top500 list where there are 0 > laods of shared nothing clusters none of which$ > are running either NSK or OpenVMS.  ;    Did you ever try to compute in a shared nothing cluster? :    Sure limits what you can compute.  Witness the original4    reason DEC came up with a VAXcluster:  to provide4    a computing environment with more horsepower than$    any one VAX they had at the time.  4 > The problem is that clusters cover everything from2 > Compute, to Web to Apps to file and DBMS. No one3 > cluster technology is the "Gold Standard" because 2 > one one technology is suitable for all the tasks > that you may need to run.   6    Guess again.  VMS is suitable for all of the above.0    Some other clusters might not be, but VMS is.  4 > You could go as far as to say the one applications0 > cluster technology "Gold Standard" is anothers > chocolate teapot.   2    Must be some kinda chocolate, since it can keep0    all the eaters happy.  Hershey would like the1    recipe, but they're too busy fighting over the     sale.  / > I would also disagree with the idea that UNIX 1 > clusters use the same "paradigm" as NSK, infact " > most UNIX clusters are much more% > analogous to VMS clusters than NSK.   6    Get real.  Most UNIX clusters are more analogous to7    MS clusters, with just a little automation poured on     top.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:31:01 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Re: "inview" Articlen, Message-ID: <3D758C7D.305F50A9@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: > - common system disk    L For smaller clusters, wouldn't having separate systems disks be the preferedN solution since it provides each node with greater independance in case anotherN node fails, and especially allows a node to be taken off-line and upgraded and then brought back in ?  N (I realise that volume shadowing of system disk can somwhat make single system@ image AND still provide each node with the needed independance).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:40:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e Subject: Re: "inview" ArticleS, Message-ID: <3D758EC1.4F9AC6C1@videotron.ca>  N Kerry Main provide lots of "nice to have" items that VMS provides and Unix may or may not provide.   E In real life,  do customers really  include those advantages with anyl- significant weight in their decision tables ?r  I Or would they just say that VMS has a slight advantage in management thateM isn't offset by perceived higher costs, lesser availability of software etc ?e  J Seems to me that VMS may be stuck a bit like Tandem. A potential market ofK only a small number of customers for whom those VMS-specific features are ae must.   G It is a shame though because, unlike Tandem,  VMS is very versatile andeA *could* be a prime operating system instead of a small niche one.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 12:03:31 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-; Subject: Re: Alpha system model # changing after an upgrade 3 Message-ID: <C6Gncllww+$u@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <00A136D2.079830C7@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:L > A customer claims that an OpenVMS upgrade from V7.1-2 to V7.2-1 causes theM > HW_MODEL number to change from 1838 (V7.1-2) to 1920 (V7.2-1).  I don't be-fM > lieve this is possible.  I do believe that this customer is simply lying toc: > get a product licensing key for unauthorized hardware.    B I thought the HW_MODEL number was generated by software, making it? technically possible (however improbable) that it changed in anlE upgrade.  Alternatively, it might be PALcode, but certainly possible.I  1 > Will somebody please verify this here for me?     A I don't (think I) have that hardware, but isn't the HW_MODEL code  shown in the Listings kit ?o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:32:12 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: Alpha system model # changing after an upgraden6 Message-ID: <al2v81$1lvs58$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  , <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> schreef in bericht* news:00A136D2.079830C7@SendSpamHere.ORG...L > A customer claims that an OpenVMS upgrade from V7.1-2 to V7.2-1 causes theI > HW_MODEL number to change from 1838 (V7.1-2) to 1920 (V7.2-1).  I don'ts be--J > lieve this is possible.  I do believe that this customer is simply lying to8 > get a product licensing key for unauthorized hardware. >1/ > Will somebody please verify this here for me?e >aJ Two VAXstations report the the same value for HW_NAME but return differentI values for HW_MODEL. Now that does not answer your question, but it showsi( that there are possible inconsistencies.F Did the output of SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE change with the upgrade as well?   Hans   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:00:12 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: Alpha system model # changing after an upgradea6 Message-ID: <al34ck$1mv5sm$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  , <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> schreef in bericht* news:00A136E7.A9DB92B9@SendSpamHere.ORG...E > In article <al2v81$1lvs58$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems"h <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:u > >t/ > ><system@SendSpamHere.ORG> schreef in berichtn- > >news:00A136D2.079830C7@SendSpamHere.ORG... K > >> A customer claims that an OpenVMS upgrade from V7.1-2 to V7.2-1 causeso theoL > >> HW_MODEL number to change from 1838 (V7.1-2) to 1920 (V7.2-1).  I don't > >be-G > >> lieve this is possible.  I do believe that this customer is simplyr lyingr > >toe; > >> get a product licensing key for unauthorized hardware.e > >>2 > >> Will somebody please verify this here for me? > >>C > >Two VAXstations report the the same value for HW_NAME but returnK	 differentcL > >values for HW_MODEL. Now that does not answer your question, but it shows+ > >that there are possible inconsistencies.sI > >Did the output of SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE change with the upgrade as well?w > >  > >Hans  > >  >yK > Are you certain that they are the same model VAXstation?  On the VAX, theiK > model number is used to index into a table of addresses.  These addressese6 > point to ASCIC strings which contain the model name. >t5 > This is not how the model name is derived on Alpha.f > --L Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. The two systems are indeed different. OneJ is labeled VAXstation 3100-M48 and the other just VAXstation 3100. But theH HW_NAME returns the same value for both systems, in neither case does itG match the label on the outside. The HW_MODEL returns a different value.aL So this does not answer the question, it was menat as an indication that theI values returned for the HW_xxxx parameters is not necessarily consistent.t   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 20:22:35 +0200i@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>9 Subject: Re: Alpha vs Vax? Humm How about a DEC 3000 400? + Message-ID: <3D74FDEB.8010800@mail.tele.dk>a   Stanley Reynolds wrote:l  N > We went from a application running on a vax to the alpha two things happenedL > the programs were now twice as big and the memory (RAM) required was twiceN > as big. So to stay even cpu clock should run 4 times faster on the alpha and > double memory and disk.a    2 You will indeed need significant more RAM on Alpha than on VAX.  6 I am not so sure about the disk space. Most disk-space8 is usually occupied by data files that take up the exact same space on VAX and Alpha.  5 Regarding MHz comparisons, then it may have been true"5 for the specific VAX chip and the specific Alpha chipM1 you were comparing. But in general performance isa. not proportional with MHz on all VAX'es or all Alpha's.  - ops/time = ops/inst * inst/cycle * cycle/time   1 ops/inst and inst/cycle is constant on a specific 5 chip, but they can vary dramaticaly between differentt# chips within the same architecture.g   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 17:19:43 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: am/pm6 Message-ID: <al2qvf$1io2eg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  ' In article <3D7282C9.391034D4@aaa.com>, ) 	Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> writes:c > Hi. Your points taken..e > F >> My point is that if you, for whatever reason, wish to use an anologB >> clock, it is much easier to read a 12-hour version. That's all. > F > Well, I'm 100% sure that there have *never* been produced any analogG > (the normal round type) clock/watch that have a 24h dial, even thoughe  I And you would be 100% wrong.  I have seen numerous round, 24 hour, analog  clocks in my lifetime.  H It is more the position of the hands rather than the numbers that people@ use anyway.  My wife's analog watch has no numbers on it's face.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 11:36:41 -0700 . From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: am/pm= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209031036.7b032b28@posting.google.com>e  e Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message news:<3D732529.1040508@tg.nsw.gov.au>... I > Well, as Alan has several times said, he threw this in to stop another  F > stupid thread probably betwist (in no particular order), Bill Todd, K > Andrew Harrison and Fred Kleinsorge.  I have forgotten the title of that cH > thread, because every time I see a combination of those names, I know  > that I have lost interest. >oH > Other threads that elicit no interest from me are ones with Kerry and + > Andrew, and more recently Terry and Bill.h > : > Just my own 2c or 2p or 2 euro or 2 rupees, or whatever.    
 Your welcome.r    J > Someone, Jan Erik possibly, said that UK does not use 24 hour clock.  I I > left there in 1982 and my memory is that all bus/train timetables were a > 24 hr. > I > Australia still uses 12 hr, and the bus/rail timetables have a heavier r > font for pm. > F > Both my Digital watch and computer clock are always 24 hour.  Since K > parents and brothers and their families are still in UK, it is easier to sI > calculate the hour of the day there with 24 hour, for when I ring them.h  iF > I find Alan's comments and his adversaries interesting but somewhat -                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^?    This is only a discussion. :-)    J > specious.  For exact 12:00, 24:00, 12 a.m. or 12 p.m., most people seem A > to refer to (12) midday or (12) midnight with that terminology.      Specious? Why?    I > Folks have been talking as if there is a minute change on either side, g; > but isn't 00:00.000000000000001 today, not yesterday and e" > 12:00.000000000000001 afternoon?     Good point.a     > *****c > K > Alan, I don't think you have, so why not submit your years ago thread on sJ > symbol substitution to Hoff for the Freeware CD.  I've kept that thread E > but I'd love to see it as an "essay" rather than interspersed with s* > comments that you further elaborated on.    C Why the Freeware CD? Isn't that for software? Do you mean the FAQ? .  E Well, thanks for the compliment. I've been thinking about doing othereE VMS write-ups: comparison of EDT and EVE/TPU, and a single place withoD all DCL tricks. But I never thought of writing the symbols stuff up.F Some of it is useful, but some of it is just for fun. I think the mostF important thing about symbols that is not mentioned in the docs is how> many layers of quotes to use when forcing evalution of lexical! functions inside a quoted string.-   Example:  F $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Hey! ''F$ENVIRONMENT("DEFAULT")' is your default!"  C Even though the lexical functions argument is inside other qutationeD marks, you should still not double them up. You could, and sometimesD get away with it, but in some cases it will fail. Alternatively, you0 could do (at least in some cases, like this one)  = $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Hey! ",F$ENVIRONMENT("DEFAULT")," is yourt	 default!"i  F Some are tricks, like evaluating a symbol inside a comment. This is in the grey zone of usefulness.  F Then there are Smolik symbols, putting quotes and/or lowercase letters@ in the symbol name itself and such. Pretty much just for fun and) illustration of subtleties about symbols.    Ah, but then there is the   . $ COMMAND_STRING = P1 + " " + P2 +  [...] + P8  F which is usually (AFAIK) the best way to use parameters as, or with, aC command inside the command procedure. Doing anything else risks bigSE problems with spaces and quotation marks. I don't think I posted that  before.,  E Then there's the '&, of course, allowing two iterative substitutions,j> but care must be used to ensure that upper case is used at the# appropriate levels of substitution!p  F Then there's stuff about symbols whose values contain quotes! That's a long story in and of itself.     G > Am I yet again trying to change the topic back to VMS, or what? :-)))o >  > Regards, Paddy     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  spamsink2001 at yahoo dot comS   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 11:56:02 -0700 . From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: am/pm= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209031056.6fdfe682@posting.google.com>A  U "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:<IFDc9.2302$Y3.349603@news.xtra.co.nz>...p= > "Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in messagev9 > news:343f30ae.0209012133.2f0563d2@posting.google.com...a > J > > And it is time to allow the words am and pm to evolve a new definition > # > Which must be consistent however.r    ? Consistent with what? The old definition? The old definition isa	 obsolete.   @ The new definition is logical, self-consistent, follows the sameE roll-over rules with and as the other columns in the time, is alreadytC in use by the vast majority, if not all, am/pm digital clocks. Whatr more do you want?o   > D > > meridiem, which, in brief, rests on the fact that the sun rarely0 > > crosses the meridian at 12:00 standard time. > @ > That doesn't really matter. No one using 24-hour clock expectsD > the sun to cross the "meridian" (or is it meridiem? :-) at exactly > 12:00:00.     @ Yes, but we're talking about the am/pm system. And those who sayF "Well, am means ante meridiem which means before noon" *do* expect the@ sun to cross the meridian at 1200 standard time. And that is theA fallacy of their argument, since the sun almost never crosses thev meridian at 1200 standard time.a    7 > However, just to try to be even slightly logical, one,1 > would expect that numbers ordering should hold:n >  > eg: 01.00 - 12.59 = 00.01 ?a    ? I never said that using 12 where zero would make more sense was F logical. It is easy to use if you just assume that 12 is a synonym for zero.o     Disclaimer: JMOn Alan E. Feldmanr spamsink2001 at yahoo dot como   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:12:03 +0200k From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: am/pm4 Message-ID: <vnad9.42473$C26.3987860@zwoll1.home.nl>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:) > In article <3D7282C9.391034D4@aaa.com>,:+ > 	Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> writes:e >  >>Hi. Your points taken..X >> >>F >>>My point is that if you, for whatever reason, wish to use an anologB >>>clock, it is much easier to read a 12-hour version. That's all. >>F >>Well, I'm 100% sure that there have *never* been produced any analogG >>(the normal round type) clock/watch that have a 24h dial, even thougha >  > K > And you would be 100% wrong.  I have seen numerous round, 24 hour, analogn > clocks in my lifetime. > J > It is more the position of the hands rather than the numbers that people > use anyway.  h  K Very true. This is why analogue instruments have a distinct advantage over eL digital instruments in many cases. You just have to look if the hand of the J instrument is somewhat in the right position. This can also mean that the G instruments themselves are mounted in such a way that the hands of all cO instruments are in a 12 o'clock position for instance if everything is ok. The  O dial may look a bit funny if it is mounted in an angle, but the person reading hB the instruments can easily see if anything is out of the ordinary.  3 My wife's analog watch has no numbers on it's face.u >  > bill >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 18:49:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: am/pm, Message-ID: <3D753C62.F003F66E@videotron.ca>   Dirk Munk wrote:L > Very true. This is why analogue instruments have a distinct advantage over$ > digital instruments in many cases.  G Funny, perhaps I was born of the digital age, but I have found analogue I instruments always more clunky than digital ones.  When I ride my bike, IeN don't have time to look at an analogue gauge to try to see what my speed is. IK want a digital number I can just quickly glance at and know exactly what my M speed is. And when I push a bit more, I do want to see the number change fromoK 29.5 to 30.0, something I would not see on an analogue gauge unless I spendl9 way too much time checking the gauge instead of the road.o  M Same thing when I run for the bus. A digital watch with the correct time is a N must for me because it really tells me how fast I need to run to make it. WithI an analogue watch, I wouldn't have the stability while running to see theuM precise time and hence, I wouldn't know if I have 45 secodns spare or if I amM late by 45 seconds.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 12:16:25 -0600- From: briggs@encompasserve.org, Subject: Re: Another stupid newbie question.3 Message-ID: <MTf2C5OARaSB@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  W In article <3D743CA7.4050807@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > WarlockD wrote:e >  >> AH!J >> Ok I found the problem.  Apparently the consol cord I was using has the* >> wires swapped around like a phone cord. >  > I > I'm not sure about phone cords crossing the wires, but, for the serial aR > connection to the VT-320, the line MUST have the positions switched.  It is a 6 Q > line cord.  3 and 4 are ground.  2 and 5 are xmit and recv.  2 at one end goes dM > to 5 at the other end, and 5 goes to 2.  These are MMJ plugs, with the key 0O > offset to one side.  I think that the key side is pin 6, this is from memory.S  E If you are using ribbon cable (typical in this application) and crimp < both end connectors on identically and don't turn one upsideE down by accident you'll automatically get the left to right inversionaD that is required.  That's because both connectors butt onto the same6 cable.  So they naturally face in opposite directions.  8 This is the standard way to crimp RJ11 and DEC423 cable.  6 A quick check is to hold both connectors in your hand,A oriented identically and verify that the wire colors are reverseda from one end to the other.  C If you are using RJ45 connectors (the standard connectors used withb? twisted pair Ethernet) and standard adapters, the left to rightpB inversion rule still applies. Ordinary "straight through" EthernetC drop cable will not work.  It's not inverted.  Ethernet "crossover"e@ cables will not work.  The inversion there is not left-to-right.  D I hold in my hands an RJ45 style Cisco console cable.  Black plastic@ 8 wire ribbon cable.  The wire colors are left-to-right inverted from one end to the other.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 16:50:23 -0700M$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho). Subject: Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK< Message-ID: <d0141774.0209031550.3db7366@posting.google.com>   Guys,e  @ OK. Will email you privately with FTP details in next day or so.  ? It will be an ISO image so burn it to CD-R with any half-decentl package (I useE Click 'n Burn Pro, but a simpler package like FireBurner will do justh	 as well).e/ The CD will then be bootable from VAX chevrons.aD I've just gone through this entire process so it's all pretty fresh;* glad to answer any questions you may have.      o "Konstantin Klubnichkin" <kostik@beenet.ru> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.09.03.13.26.22.781463@beenet.ru>...i5 > On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 05:58:57 +0000, issinoho wrote:r >  > > Christian, > > V > > Have you broadband? If so, I can put up an image for you to grab on my FTP server. > >  > <skipped>7 > B > May I have it too? Joined Encompass too, having same problems asK > Christian. Furthermore delivery to Russia takes too much time and makes a- > lot of headache... > 	 > Thanks!  >  > Best regards,b > Konstantin Klubnichkin% > P.S. Your e-mail box is unavailable    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 01:07:54 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e. Subject: Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK' Message-ID: <3D756237.6D306C8F@fsi.net>o   Christian Karg wrote:o >   > Yes - I get up to 2Mbit    ;-) > F > Could you email me the details? I have no experience burning VAX/VMSF > CD's, but I'll give it a try. Are you aware of any special things toE > watch out for? My setup includes a PC running WindowsXP with a CDRW: > drive.   A couple of pages you can see:  $ http://www.djesys.com/vms/cdrom.html http://www.tmesis.com/cdrom/   Also, check the OpenVMS FAQ.   -- c David J. Dachtera9 dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 01:09:05 GMT11 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> . Subject: Re: Copy of OpenVMS hobbyist CD in UK& Message-ID: <3D756282.1CEC619@fsi.net>   issinoho wrote:8 >  > Guys,1 > B > OK. Will email you privately with FTP details in next day or so. > A > It will be an ISO image so burn it to CD-R with any half-decentc > package (I useG > Click 'n Burn Pro, but a simpler package like FireBurner will do justr > as well). 1 > The CD will then be bootable from VAX chevrons.A  8 If it's an ISO image, it will not be bootable or usable.   It needs to be ODS image.n   -- t David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/H   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 08:59:49 -0700t. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Escape Sequencese= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209030759.25918ad2@posting.google.com>e  \ Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message news:<3D722C1B.8D05E74E@Free.fr>...
 > within EDT:a > [ > PF1 27 (numeric in main keyboard) PF1 3 (on numeric keyboard, which is "special insert").A > N > But it is *not* a good idea to insert escape sequences in sources because it= > messes up the user's screen if someone types the procedure.r >  > D.    ? Or even worse, it could mess up your printer if you print it! InC printed some inherited DCL once and it put scrolling regions on theoD (line) printer! And they didn't go away when the print job finished!@ All subsequent print jobs were messed up until I reset it. Not aC production printer, only I use it, but a lot of paper was wasted!!!H Yeah, that was fun.0   Also, don't use the form E  9 $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Blah blah blah ''esc'<your-fave-seq>"w  > because that will put escape chars in the log file, which when printed, ... !   Usew  ; $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Blah blah blah ",ESC,"<your-fave-seq>"    	 instead.    E Or put the entire sequence in a symbol and use that between commas asm
 ESC is above.a   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmant spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 12:13:53 -0400p! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>e Subject: Re: Escape Sequencesh' Message-ID: <3D74DFC1.FF7FA960@vcu.edu>m   there's a TON of good info at   ( http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/   enjoy!!!  	 Jim Agnewg   Francisco Ortega wrote:  >  > Hi ,H >       I forgat how to place escape sequences in EDIT and which are theM > escape sequences for bold, big letter and so on. If anyone can help. Thanksu   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 02 18:57:10 +0200m) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)- Subject: Re: Escape Sequences0) Message-ID: <z3dSZ6akVWLM@elias.decus.ch>i  V In article <2SEP200221345067@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: > Roy@Omond.net writes...1 > }Didier Morandi wrote: > }  > }> within EDT: > }>^ > }> PF1 27 (numeric in main keyboard) PF1 3 (on numeric keyboard, which is "special insert"). > } & > }Even easier, just hit Escape twice. > }Roy Omond > A > And if you don't have an "Escape" key, you can use control-3 or 9 > control-[ instead. (Still doing them twice, of course.)a > ; > Unfortuantely, these don't seem to work in newer editors.r >  Which newer editors?  A In EDIT/TPU, it's ctrl/v then either ctrl-3 or ctrl-[ (just once)s (just tried it on Alpha V7.3). __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 02 19:01:18 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)r Subject: Re: Escape Sequences ) Message-ID: <ENl$ccQiUt6L@elias.decus.ch>h  J In article <3D74735C.9A28586@Omond.net>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: > Paul Repacholi wrote:d > $ >> Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: >>H >> > Who can remember the effects of setting process name to ^E (controlG >> > E) when a user did $ show system on a VT100 ?  :-) A long time ago0 >> > ... >>; >> Before or after you `improved' his answerback string? :). > G > Hmm... maybe my memory is fading (Gartner probability factor: 1.0 :-)a  5 Over 20 years since I used a genuine VT100, so ditto.r  F > I thought the effect of the ^E was to wedge the VT100 so that only a > powerw; > off could unwedge it.  What was it then if it wasn't ^E ?  > = > There was another one to set the VT100 into self-test mode.a- > Paul Williams (of vt100.net), what was it ?  >t   <ESC>E   ???e  i __
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:17:42 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>! Subject: Re: Help installing Piner6 Message-ID: <al2ucd$1lubm2$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  E Since that "no tcpip stack" related message was apparently just that,bC informational rather than en error, I wouldn't pay attention to it.rE However the error message that said: " Extraneous parameter names areo< ignored. at line number 295 in module RESOLV of text libraryG SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.TLB;2" is somewhat more of a problem. AnsD indication that the compiler was not installed correctly, or not the5 expected options were chosen during the installation.v  - <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> schreef in bericht % news:al22r3$5iq$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...sE > In article <al0hl1$1lu4hv$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems"  <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:pG > >Compilation warnings are repeated by the LINKER and the LIBRARIAN toy signalI > >that something may have escaped the programmer's attention. Could verye wellF > >be that the program was written in C and that the compiler had some warningsA > >that had no effect on code quality (that seems possible in C). K > >So all the object files are stored in an object library (.OLB filetype):  abL > >convenient way to store all those compiler output files without getting a# > >directory with too many entries.  > >i > I note the line :- >mI > >> %VMSBUILD-I-CCLIENT, Building C-client library with DEC C and NO TCPo
 > >support >yH > Could it be that there is a qualifier which you need to provide to theE > build specifying which TCPIP stack (UCX, TCPWARE, MULTINET) you are  building > with.  > H > I know a number of products which you have to build with commands like >i > @MAKEVMS  XXX YYY  UCXTCPu >fH > where XXX, YYY and UCXTCP are various qualifiers used in the build and4 > UCXTCP tells the build to use the UCX TCPIP stack.I > These are usually used by ifdefs in the code to pull in various includem files. >R [snip]   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:49:34 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>@ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax6 Message-ID: <1020902222058.31385B-100000@Ives.egh.com>    On 2 Sep 2002, Bob Marlow wrote:  I > The Vax (Virtual Address eXtensions) was a successor to the PDP, though"D > I seem to remember the first Vax was called a PDP-11 VaX. As VaxesA > are 32-bit, and AFAIK PDPs were not, compatibility will be veryy= > low. I remember the RSX compatibility mode, I think it wentq@ > out with VMS V4, and at the same time therefore, the wonderful > sos line editor went.n  A At V4.0, all the essential utilities had been converted to nativee> mode, and so the RSX compatibility mode was no longer requiredD for day-to-day usage.  (I think in V1.0, DIRECTORY and COPY actuallyA used RSX PIP, etc.)  Since it wasn't needed anymore, it was splitS@ out from the base O/S and became a layered product (RSX-11 AME).B Older customers were grandfathered, though you had to start payingB a separate support charge after your current contract ran out.  So you could still run SOS :-)t  @ The 1st VAX was the VAX-11/780.  When they stopped including theC PDP-11 instruction set in the hardware, they dropped the "11-" from ? the names (VAX 8600, which had micro-coded PDP-11 instructions, B but was much slower in compatibility mode than the 11/780.)  After? the VAX 8650, they stopped including compatibility mode at all,-> though the RSX AME included a software PDP-11 emulator, so you@ could still run it on all VAXes.  The emulator was not vestable,! and was never ported to Alpha :-(m  > I think before they decided on the name "VAX", they were going= to call it the PDP-32 (for 32-bit words), or maybe the PDP-22A1 (because it was twice the width of the PDP-11.)  1  ? Compatibility mode only ever supported user mode.  You couldn't = boot into compatibility mode, and all the O/S kernel (Kernel,t> exec, super modes, and all interrupt stack routines) had to be in native mode.e  ; I think while they were designing the hardware, they used a-; simulator that ran on a PDP-11 to test things, but this was ' never a usable system, just a test bed.n  H > Actual source code though, can port very well. There was a big Fortran@ > program I heard about at our company that run on a PDP, and it? > re-compiled and re-linked and ran ok on a Vax, almost withoutt > any edits. > < > But this may not be true for all languages: In particular,> > I remember writing assembler on a PDP-11 (/75?), and all theA > calculations had to be done in Octal, and I think the registersA$ > will be different for VaX 'Macro'.  B The default radix in PDP-11 MACRO is octal, but is changeable withA the .RADIX directive.  VAX MACRO doesn't have a .RADIX directive,g@ and the default is Hex (IIRC), but you can specify other radixes= with either prefixes (^X for hex, ^O for Octal), or a decimall> point to specify decimal constants.  There are 16 registers on= VAX vs. 8 on the PDP.  Converting from PDP-11 to VAX MACRO isn= more a re-write than a port, but you can use the PDP-11 MACRO = as pseudo code for the VAX, and then optimize where possible.   \ > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<x4Dc9.34949$C26.3176087@zwoll1.home.nl>... > > WarlockD wrote: F > > > I heard that the PDP migrated to the Vax, but are they the same? > > > J > > > I know hardware wise they aren't, (I believe the PDP needed allot ofO > > > negative voltages to work), but I heard that you can get a version of Vms . > > > for a PDP 11 that would work with a Vax. > > T > > AFAIK Vax VMS V0.7 ran on a PDP11-70, which was a real PDP11 with some VAX like P > >   elements. But I don't think there ever was a commercial VMS version for a O > > PDP11. On the other hand a VAX system could also run RSX11M programs under  M > > certain conditions. I never used that possibility because all of our RSX aT > > programs used RMS (record management services) in Supervisor mode, and that was  > > not supported.   See above...  B If everything is out of order here, it is because I'm following up a top-poster ...   > >  > > > N > > > Though, considering the most experience I have had with VMS was a schoolR > > > computer to check my mail and compile c programs is about it:P  I don't know > > > the hardware aspects.v >    -- t John Santosw Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 06:37:56 GMT  From: danco@ns2.pebble.org@ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax1 Message-ID: <slrnan8nnc.15l.danco@ns2.pebble.org>   A In article <3D730CFC.135303D5@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:-  = > The VAX 11/xxx models was, more or less, a PDP-11 processor A > with some "Virtual Adress eXtensions" hardware added. That way, ; > the VAX 11/xxx could run PDP-11 images. Later VAX modellst5 > was built on hardware without the PDP-11 processor.a  > The first VAX processors included a PDP-11 compatibility mode.= Other than that point, all of the above is totally incorrect.a   - Dan    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 21:55:00 GMTe0 From: Paul Winalski <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com>  Subject: Re: Itanic2 performance8 Message-ID: <trbanus9r4nbmnvuas8tc4lqp5k1tasg1p@4ax.com>  ? Turns out I was wrong--it **was** HP's compiler.  My apologies.o  ; But the performance increase vs. Itanium 2 Linux comes fromo8 the fact that the specINT benchmarks on HP-UX were built@ using 32-bit pointers (ILP32).  This reduces the size of various8 data structures in the benchmarks and is worth about 15%9 additional performance on specINT.  Itanium Linus doesn'tt8 support a ILP32 execution environment, hence you see the< 64-bit pointer specINT values there, which will be about 15%. slower, regardless of whose compilers you use.  < VMS uses 32-bit pointers by default and hence should benefit from the ILP32 speedup.   / On Tue, 03 Sep 2002 15:21:24 GMT, Paul Winalskic# <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote:. >eC >The "HP-UX compiler technology" you are talking about is the Intel4D >compiler.  The Itanium 2 benchmarks in question were produced usingE >Intel's compilers running on HP-UX.  The plan last time I looked wast1 >for VMS to be "stuck with" this same technology.a  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:38:42 +0200$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>> Subject: Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application* Message-ID: <00A13701.97AF2CEE.3@decus.de>  / "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:e  ( > Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes: > D > > The documentation claims to be in PDF format but obviously has aE > > ".gz" extension. Can you please make this available in "pure PDF" H > > because downloading what seems to be a compressed file format is not > > allowed everywhere.u >a9 > Not allowed??? Are they aware that pdf *is* compressed?  >a& > Where is Dilbert when you need him!!  K I _am_ aware that "Adobe Acrobat" format is (or: may be?) a compressed filetD format; "gz" ("GNU zip"?) looks like a more general file compressionO type/algorithm which may contain executables and therefore be "dangerous". (AndoN yes, I know, a file with ".pdf" extension doesn't need to be a PDF document atO all; it is just a convention obviously derived from the DOS/Windows "world". IfsP "Winwoes" can be considered an operating system is at least questionable ... :-)   Michaelp   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 21:47:56 GMTw' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> & Subject: Re: Mozilla 1.1 burner of CPU, Message-ID: <3D752E0C.6060400@theblakes.com>   Alain,  D I answered this exact same question, about a year ago, from you! My D reply still stands, and as Bob correctly states, its to do with the I polling. There are some logicals you can play with to adjust the polling :H rate. Please find your original posting and read through the replies. I D found it using Google to search newsgroups for "vms_poll_timer_min".   Colin.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 01:00:53 GMTt% From: "Yong Liu" <fdu9774@rogers.com>c% Subject: Networking with Alpha ServerkI Message-ID: <9Xcd9.62548$6m61.12596@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>A   Hi,o  I I am working on hooking up a HP-UX based client to a Open VMS based AlphalE server. TCP/IP is working on both machines. Can I connect them like I"> connect two HP-UX work stations? Since I am concerned with lab7 implementations, I will appreciate detailed directions.+   Thanks.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 06:07:38 +0200p2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: OpenSSL woes ; Message-ID: <3d75870a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>    Hi,h  K I'm trying to integrate SSL with ht://Dig to enable it to index https URLs.   F So I got OpenSSL 0.9.6g, built it ("@MAKEVMS ALL NORSAREF NODEBUG DECCE UCX"), installed it, started it up, created a self-signed certificate-' (following Robert Byer's instructions).   B Got the ht://Dig patches for SSL usage, integrated them, built it.  8 But when I try and point it to https://axpmv.mv.privat/, it croaks about 5 "Unable to build connection with axpmv.mv.privat:443" , Very helpful error message... But I digress.  A axpmv's CSWS' SSL_ENGINE.LOG says (lines wrapped for readability)   % [04/Sep/2002 05:35:11 01195] [info]   #   Connection to child 0 established 2   (server axpmv.mv.privat:443, client 192.168.0.4)% [04/Sep/2002 05:35:11 01195] [info]  e)   Seeding PRNG with 1160 bytes of entropyo% [04/Sep/2002 05:35:12 01195] [error] .   SSL handshake failed2   (server axpmv.mv.privat:443, client 192.168.0.4)!   (OpenSSL library error follows)g$ [04/Sep/2002 05:35:12 01195] [error]   OpenSSL: error:1406B0FD:>   SSL routines:GET_CLIENT_MASTER_KEY:unknown remote error type  7 Au secour! How do I create a valid "client master key"?VA Alternatively, how do I get more error information out of OpenSSLi4 pn the client side? Thanks in advance for any hints.   cu,y   Martin  ? P.S.: CSWS' serving of https URLs works with a Netscape client.t  E P.S.: When I get this to fly, there will be a new release of ht://DigtE       for OpenVMS. With this release, external_parsers will also workD+       (e.g. indexing PDFs using PDFTOHTML).  -- 'F                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.decF  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:25:10 +05004 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>1 Subject: Re: OpenVMS v7.3 - setting the time zonec4 Message-ID: <1854488393.20020904092510@ncc.volga.ru>  E On 03.09.2002 Andrew Rycroft <andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com> wrote:    > Hi,i  F > I am trying to set my time zone on OpenVMS v7.3. I am in a time zone< > GMT+2 with no daylight saving - Johannesburg South Africa.  G > When I try to set the timezone to GMTPLUS2 with NET$CONFIGURE, I get e  6 > DTSS$CONFIG-I-LOGS Defining system timezone logicals8 > %DTSS-E-INVRULE, Invalid SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE: GMT+0200-2B > %DTSS-E-FAILED, error occured while trying to complete directive  D > I can set the other times zones - Egypt, Israel, MET, but they all > have daylight savings time.t  G > Any ideas - I have checked the FAQ, and it seems to be a bit obscure.d   > Thanks > Andrew  E   I solved the problem like yours with pulling correct zone info file'F from FreeBSD, compiling it with ZIC compiler (though small massage wasB required as VMS didn't accept such a big file), moving result intoE sys$sysroot:[sys$zoneinfo.system] and pointing out to it. No problems  since that.    -- a
 Best regards,w#  Valentin                          c  valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:20:27 -0400# From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.com>m! Subject: Re: OT: Active Directoryj3 Message-ID: <3d752810$0$1430$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>F      Hie  7   We tried this as well and punted after about a month.."    AD is not ready for Prime Time.                              Rob  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"w> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:al2pro$3m1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >o >c > Alan Greig wrote:- >-H > > 've just been running through some of the Microsoft Active DirectoryI > > documentation in preparation for a corporate seminar on its potentialzC > > introduction within the company. I find it almost impossible touH > > believe that extremely key roles will not automatically fail over to@ > > backup systems but must be manually switched. Even worse theI > > documentation points out that the original server can only be broughtiF > > back online (or even into the domain) if the disk is formatted and > > Windows re-installed !!!!n > >aH > > Even more astonishing the 'lecturer' on the training cd says "PleaseJ > > try to plan for failures and take the system offline before it fails."> > > Even knowing the quality of Microshit I am just astounded! > > B > > Anyone know of any horror stories I should keep in mind before; > > attending a Microsoft led seminar in Chicago next week?- > > -- > > Alan > >: >1 >08 > Well, are you expecting to change things like your DNS9 > servers as well. I am assuming that you don't currentlyu8 > use MS to host DNS but moving to AD will probably mean > going that route as well.  >l	 > Regardsw > Andrew HarrisonO >d >o >m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:34:41 GMTs! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nza! Subject: Re: OT: Active Directory?% Message-ID: <3d755466.514738434@news>>  E On Tue, 03 Sep 2002 17:59:26 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancym4 <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:   >- >  >Alan Greig wrote: > G >> 've just been running through some of the Microsoft Active DirectorytH >> documentation in preparation for a corporate seminar on its potentialB >> introduction within the company. I find it almost impossible toG >> believe that extremely key roles will not automatically fail over toi? >> backup systems but must be manually switched. Even worse the-H >> documentation points out that the original server can only be broughtE >> back online (or even into the domain) if the disk is formatted ands >> Windows re-installed !!!! >> nG >> Even more astonishing the 'lecturer' on the training cd says "PleasetI >> try to plan for failures and take the system offline before it fails."n= >> Even knowing the quality of Microshit I am just astounded!a >>  A >> Anyone know of any horror stories I should keep in mind beforeb: >> attending a Microsoft led seminar in Chicago next week? >> --r >> Alans >> i >i >t7 >Well, are you expecting to change things like your DNS 8 >servers as well. I am assuming that you don't currently7 >use MS to host DNS but moving to AD will probably meanr >going that route as well.  D At this site the original DNS Servers will remain (on Sun Servers as? it happens), AD will look after just the local MS automatic DNSb; nonsense. I think that would more typify mixed architecture  installations.   Rob. >m >Regards >Andrew Harrison >e >  >b   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:39:24 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Please Sum it up.6 Message-ID: <al2vlq$1n186l$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  E The researchers cannot predict the future. Essentially they deliver aeB visible equivalent of what chemists call brownian motion. The mainJ difference is that the former is free and researchers cost a lot of money.  0 "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com> schreef in bericht) news:un98rutfr4kscb@corp.supernews.com...c' > Whats the sum of all the researches ?c >i >w< > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message* > news:%61d9.343471$UU1.59444@sccrnsc03... > > 2 > > "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com> wrote in message- > > news:un8shnfoe1fa46@corp.supernews.com...X > > > OpenVMS future trends... > > >bK > > > Could somebody who is touch with the market/industry and the "new HP"s	 > > plansb3 > > > please sum up:  What is the future of OpenVMSe > > >  > > > for the next 5 years.- > > >- > > J > > In this forum you will get 5,000 different opinions. For $10K or so, aE > > coin-operated analyst from a major market research will b glad toD provide2H > > you with "probability factors." Th $10K does not include first class > travel > > and lodging. > >i > >w >a >c   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:39:18 GMT ! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nzt Subject: Re: Please Sum it up.% Message-ID: <3d7555cd.515097000@news>e  B On Tue, 03 Sep 2002 17:57:57 -0000, wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) wrote:   J >visoni@bmc.com (Vivek Soni) wrote in <un8shnfoe1fa46@corp.supernews.com>: >u >>OpenVMS future trends... >>G >>Could somebody who is touch with the market/industry and the "new HP"o5 >>plans please sum up:  What is the future of OpenVMSP >> >>for the next 5 years.. >> >>Thanks >>Viveke >nM >So far no one has really responded to your question, so I'll take a stab at 1 >it... >eI >First, this newgroup has been filled with opinions and prognostications sL >about OpenVMS's future for at least 14 months (since the Alpha-cide).  You K >may wish to visit www.google.com to review past opinions.  Be forewarned, DI >however, that much of the negativity was directed at the cancelation of e$ >Alpha, rather than OpenVMS futures. > M >HP's "plan of record" has OpenVMS being ported to Intel's Itanium, and this tL >work is in progress.  IIRC, the first ship date is in 2004.  The optimists I >among us believe OpenVMS will have a long life of the new platform, and oI >that's what HP is saying as well.  I happen to side with the optimists,  A >although you'll find many in this group with differing opinions.i > K >One thing, (imho) seems certain:  OpenVMS is entrenched in the financial, aM >medical, and manufacturing industries; it ain't going away over night.  And uL >given HP's recent treatment of the os (arguably better than Compaq's), the E >future of the OS seems a lot brighter to me that it did 2 years ago.  >  >wst  E Yep, me too. The longevity of VMS has been a thorn in the side of the-8 "market analysts" for years. Long may that continue..... >  >--  >  >Warren Spencers( >Senior Software Engineer (not a writer) >The Associated Press. >e= >** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:41:27 GMTa! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz  Subject: Re: Please Sum it up.% Message-ID: <3d75565d.515241317@news>r  E On 3 Sep 2002 07:07:47 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  wrote:  V >In article <un98rutfr4kscb@corp.supernews.com>, "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com> writes:( >> Whats the sum of all the researches ? >a >42i which implies:9 "the future of vms" = " life the universe and everything" ! sounds pretty optimistic then ;-)c   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 03:34:26 GMT,# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>m Subject: Re: Please Sum it up.- Message-ID: <3D757F40.9FD8E102@earthlink.net>m   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > W > In article <un98rutfr4kscb@corp.supernews.com>, "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com> writes:n) > > Whats the sum of all the researches ?M >  > 42% At least that's a positive answer! :)4   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:40:35 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)' Subject: Re: Remote Site Cluster Membere. Message-ID: <al36o3$bh8$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> writes in article <al1g11$hbv2@doiweb4.volkswagen.de> dated Tue, 03 Sep 2002 07:05:33 +0200:MK >The new DS20E at the remote site must have its own system disk. It can NOTl< >form a system disk shadowset via ethernet, because it bootsE >from a physical local disk, forms the system disk shadowset and thenXL >detects a shadow inconsistency with the system disk shadow set on the other >nodes and bugchecks.   J It can have its own copy of a shadowed system disk, but it can't boot fromL that copy if the shadow set already exists in the cluster.  It can boot fromI the ethernet using MOP and then add its member to the set during startup.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgh> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 01:57:24 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>' Subject: Re: Remote Site Cluster Member55 Message-ID: <1020903013704.1685A-100000@Ives.egh.com>e  ) On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Karl Rohwedder wrote:o   > Steve Cage wrote:I > > OpenVMS V7.2-1 > >=20F > > We currently have two Compaq DS20E's which are clustered utilizingH > > twin shared SCSI buses and a Quorum disk. Expected Votes is set to 3E > > with each node contributing 1 vote. The system disk is shared and - > > shadowed utilizing the shared SCSI buses.t > >=20G > > This weekend we are going to add another DS20E to the cluster which F > > will have its disk drives (same capacity)  located in its internalE > > drive cage. This machine will be located at our Disaster Recovery D > > site, which is approx 1 mile away and connected via a 100MB Full. > > Duplex Ethernet connection (Colt Lanlink). > >=20L > > =B7=09For the test we will use cluster_config.com to create a new root = on? > > the shared system disk and add the new node to the cluster. ; > > =B7=09Boot the new node into the cluster over Ethernet.eL > > =B7=09Add a disk on the new DS20E to the System Disk Shadow Set. Then w= ecC > > should be able to boot the new machine of the local hard drive.c8 > > =B7=09Remove the Quorum disk with cluster_config.com5 > > =B7=09Shadow remaining data disks to remote site.N > >=20J > > The whole point of adding the third member is to keep a real time copyJ > > of data on a running system at a remote site in case disaster strikes.I > > My main question is how could we adjust expected_votes at remote sitenG > > if we lost main site and had to run on a single node (assuming link5I > > was shutdown to avoid partitioning the cluster). I have tried this in"9 > > the past and the single node just dies when you boot.e > >=20= > > Any other help you could offer would also be appreciated.g >=20L > The new DS20E at the remote site must have its own system disk. It can NO= Te= > form a system disk shadowset via ethernet, because it bootstF > from a physical local disk, forms the system disk shadowset and thenL > detects a shadow inconsistency with the system disk shadow set on the oth= er > nodes and bugchecks.  D Are you sure about this?  Booting is read-only until a certain pointD where the new system joins the cluster.  Then it remounts the system@ disk shared & read/write.  Since the mount occurs *after* it hasA joined the cluster, it can resolve shadowset issues, find all theiB volumes, etc.  Otherwise, how could you boot multiple systems from& a common CI-served disk or shadow set?  C Since one member of the shadow set is at the remote site and servedoC by the remote DS20, it would not be accessible to the other 2 nodeseB until the DS20 had booted far enough to start MSCP serving.  While? it was gone, two things could have happened: 1) the system disknE shadow set went into mount verification as soon as something tried tooE write to it, and the whole cluster was hanging waiting for the remoteeC DS20 to come back (not truly hung, but there is not a whole lot youo? can do it your system disk is in MV.)  Or, 2) the remote shadowe@ member gets dropped from the shadow set, so when the remote nodeA reboots, its disk becomes the target of a shadow copy.  Until the > copy completes, all system disk I/O on the remote node will be performed over the network.   ? I don't think the remoteness of the remote DS20 is particularly ; relevent.  It should work just like shadowing in a local NIt; cluster.  The performance penalty for having to do disk I/On: over the network would be greater (longer latency) for the; node a mile away, but otherwise it should behave just as ifr they were in the same room.t  = Has anyone ever done a shadowed system disk over Ethernet whoo( can answer this question with certainty?   --=20, John Santos0 Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 16:47:56 -070061 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)i' Subject: Re: Remote Site Cluster Memberb= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0209031547.23ee5779@posting.google.com>n  ] John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message news:<1020903013704.1685A-100000@Ives.egh.com>...r+ > On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Karl Rohwedder wrote:aE >> The new DS20E at the remote site must have its own system disk. It  can NOTe> >> form a system disk shadowset via ethernet, because it bootsB >> from a physical local disk, forms the system disk shadowset and thenD >> detects a shadow inconsistency with the system disk shadow set on	 the otheri >> nodes and bugchecks.t > F > Are you sure about this?  Booting is read-only until a certain pointF > where the new system joins the cluster.  Then it remounts the systemB > disk shared & read/write.  Since the mount occurs *after* it hasC > joined the cluster, it can resolve shadowset issues, find all theyD > volumes, etc.  Otherwise, how could you boot multiple systems from( > a common CI-served disk or shadow set?  ) I'm sure.  Been there, seen the bugcheck.r  D Speculating here: You might conceivably get away with a quick rebootE of the remote node if SHADOW_MBR_TMO was high enough so the shadowsetsC member at the remote site didn't get thrown out during the time thee; remote system was down for the reboot, and it came back andtD MSCP-served the disk soon enough, but I haven't actually tried that,D so I don't know what would happen.  And in the real world, you can'tC guarantee how quickly a node might reboot after it goes down (therep5 could be a hardware problem which prevents a reboot).R  < Even if the early boot code were smart enough to look for anC up-to-date MSCP-served member to actually boot from in place of thef> local disk you told it to boot from (and it's not that smart),D consider the case where the remote shadowset member has been removedC (and the remote system stays down) while you upgraded the operating F system version on the main shadowset member(s).  The remote node couldC thus even be doing its early boot sequence on an earlier version ofD+ VMS than the "real" shadowset now contains.   E Booting multiple systems on CI (or DSSI, or multi-host SCSI, or, moreo@ recently, on Fibre Channel) works because at least one system isE keeping all members of the shadowset (including the one you happen torF be trying to boot from) up-to-date at all times, since it is a current member of the shadowset.  E > Since one member of the shadow set is at the remote site and served E > by the remote DS20, it would not be accessible to the other 2 nodeslD > until the DS20 had booted far enough to start MSCP serving.  WhileA > it was gone, two things could have happened: 1) the system diskSG > shadow set went into mount verification as soon as something tried togG > write to it, and the whole cluster was hanging waiting for the remoteOE > DS20 to come back (not truly hung, but there is not a whole lot youaA > can do it your system disk is in MV.)  Or, 2) the remote shadowSB > member gets dropped from the shadow set, so when the remote nodeC > reboots, its disk becomes the target of a shadow copy.  Until thea@ > copy completes, all system disk I/O on the remote node will be > performed over the network.u  ? VMS doesn't know how to temporarily re-direct all its I/Os to ahB current shadowset member in place of the (as it eventually learns)F out-dated shadowset member that is the boot device you specified to itE in the console environment variable BOOTDEF_DEV.  It can only be this D smart if you were to boot the system as a satellite node of a systemE which has the shadowset mounted; in that case, it is the disk-serving B node which "knows" about the current shadowset membership, not the
 booting node.b  A > I don't think the remoteness of the remote DS20 is particularlyg= > relevent.  It should work just like shadowing in a local NIe= > cluster.  The performance penalty for having to do disk I/On< > over the network would be greater (longer latency) for the= > node a mile away, but otherwise it should behave just as ife > they were in the same room.s  C Early boot code doesn't know enough about Shadowing to make it thatwF transparent, unfortunately.  Would be nice, though.  For this to work,E you'd probably at least have to specify a list of potential shadowsetoE members so the early boot code could look at each of them and compare ? generation numbers in the SCBs to determine which were the mostoE up-to-date.  But that's hard because things like shadowset membershipdC changes are done using the distributed lock manager, which the nodeeD doesn't have the benefit of early in the boot sequence, so how couldC it keep the membership straight if it changed on-the-fly during thev boot?   ? > Has anyone ever done a shadowed system disk over Ethernet who * > can answer this question with certainty?  7 I've certainly done it over FDDI.  Does that count? :-)r. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 11:46:18 -0700 . From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekv= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209031046.38c73742@posting.google.com>t  s SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<343f30ae.0209030702.1e690d22@posting.google.com>...o] > carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<2SEP200221121352@gerg.tamu.edu>...n6 > > spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes...f > > }Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87it1sxhnj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>... > > }>   > > }_C > > }And now, in reference to the "Unix boy" request about checkingr > > }everything: > > K > > I'm the one who pointed out this flaw and suggested that checking couldiK > > be a good plan. If you think I'm a "Unix boy" then you clearly have notn9 > > been paying attention, and you just might be a moron.a >  > E > Relax man. Unix boy was the original poster who asked about findinguE > and checking directories. I was referring to John Lewocz. I thoughtu > that was pretty obivous. > H > Sorry, I misremembered him as checking everything. I now recall (OK, IF > re-read his posts) that he just wanted to check if the directory wasE > empty. Careless on my part. Sorry. I apologize. But it's not like If > said "Carl Perkins said...".    C Goofed again! CORRECTION!: Unix boy wanted to know if the directoryt+ existed and if so, was it non-empty. Sorry.r    E > Hey, people make mistakes. Let's not be so quick to pass judgement.n   [...]c   > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmani > spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 19:32:35 -0700u. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week < Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0209031832.f2117ca@posting.google.com>  \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3D71757B.4050808@tsoft-inc.com>...Q > I had to try the exercise, since I remember a time when you could have another gQ > non-directory file, the same name and a higher version # as a valid directory, 3N > and VMS worked with the highest version file, thus effectively 'losing' the S > original directory, at least until you deleted the non-directory file.  A normal rN > occurance was when someone would do a directory listing, to an output file, 8 > named DIRECTORY.DIR, whatever the directrory name was. > O > So I tried it on V7.2, and lo and behold, the version 1 file was used as the iP > directory, as described below.  So, back to an older version, 6.2, and things  > were the same. > R > I guess my question is, when was this 'fixed'?  Anybody with a V5.? system that  > can test the operation?@ >  > Dave    2 As promised: I searched comp.os.vms on Google for      ".DIR;1" directory version s   and found the following:  
 [begin quote].  : From: Andy Goldstein <Goldstein@star.zko.dec.youknowwhere>6 Subject: Re: Since when did .DIR files have to be ;1 ? Date: 1998/09/16= Message-ID: <35FF7EF3.1F6E4E1D@star.zko.dec.youknowwhere>#1/1- Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitlI References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980915215920.1602A-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl> * Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: VMS Engineeringb Mime-Version: 1.0$ Newsgroups: comp.os.vmst    ' On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Jim Johnson wrote:w  aF +Directory files have needed to be ;1 for a loonng time.  It certainlyB +goes back to at least V4, and I've never seen any evidence in the) +source that it was ever less restricted.s  A This goes all the way back. Directory files have always had to berF version 1 to be recognized. I just verified this in the V1.0 listings.   [end quote]r     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman. spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2002 11:08:20 -0700u. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209031008.195b1ec1@posting.google.com>l  j bart.zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) wrote in message news:<9a924482.0209030113.3fc5910a@posting.google.com>...W > Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3D7357C8.C7E7B69C@aaa.com>...v2 > > I find additional matches after the first even > > without the asterisk : > >  [...]g > > > } > > > In article <01KM0PMD4MYQ9OCZIZ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: K > > > >> You need to append an asterisk to the logical name in question fora) > > > >> SHOW LOGICAL to check all modes:e > > > >n% > > > > I've noticed this also.  Why?a > > >  [...]t >  > There are two possible cases:a > E > 1. There are two definitions of a logical name with the same accessp9 > mode in different tables. This applies to your example.r > F > 2. There are two definitions of a logical name with different accessC > modes in the same table. This one applied to my initial question.e > + > $ SHOW LOGICAL <lnm>   (without asterisk)a > G > behaves differently for these two cases, which is unfortunate, to saya > the least. >  > Bart ZornT    A Without the asterisk, all tables are searched, but only the firstsA occurrence in each table is listed. And translation is iterative.p  F With the asterisk, all occurrences, all tables, all modes, are listed,E but translation is not iterative. Unfortunately in this case, you may- match other logical names.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanM spamsink2001 at yahoo dot como   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 20:20:27 GMTe0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>* Subject: Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question2 Message-ID: <fQ8d9.36$ku5.445565@news.cpqcorp.net>   You have missing routes.   I saw John mentioned....  ? >> Should each host have a route to itself for its own subnet ?  >No!  L However, you should have automatic routes configured when you configure yourI interface.  The automatic routes point to themselves.  For instance, youraB 10.0.0.10 interface ought to have the following associated routes:        Type   Destination   Gateway!     AN    10.0.0.0/16   10.0.0.10t"     AH    10.0.0.10      10.0.0.10  I Neither of these exist.  Were they removed?  If you add these statically,sG you should be up and running.  Also check node Velo for similar routes.-   >That shouldK >give me an effective address range between 10.0.0.0 and 10.0.0.15, correctr >????  (240 is F0 in hex).  K Correct.  Keep in mind 10.0.0.0 is the network address and 10.0.0.15 is the>C broadcast address.  So you have 14 host routes, 10.0.0.1-10.0.0.14.t   Matt.g --= -------------------------------------------------------------0 OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Company  Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAd= -------------------------------------------------------------s    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D75142C.51CFFA40@videotron.ca... > John Vottero wrote:dL > > This should not happen.  Post the output from TCPIP SHOW ROUTE and TCPIP > > SHOW INTERFACE/FULLc > . > from node BIKE (10.0.0.10)  (comments below) >t > $ traceroute velot> > traceroute to VELO (10.0.0.11), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets- >  1  router1 (10.0.0.1)  20 ms  20 ms  10 ms.+ >  2  VELO (10.0.0.11)  20 ms  10 ms  20 msp >o > $ traceroute www.ibm.com >-H > traceroute to www.ibm.com (129.42.17.99), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets- >  1  router1 (10.0.0.1)  20 ms  10 ms  10 msC0 >  2  10.98.0.1 (10.98.0.1)  20 ms  20 ms  20 msJ >  3  modemcable169.240-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca (24.200.240.169)  30 ms 20 msw > <etc etc etc etc>7 >1J > The traceroute to IBM works as expected, going through the router to the restI > of the world, which is why I never really looked into my routing tables  sincee > they seemed to work fine.  >  >t > $ tcpip show route/full & >                              DYNAMIC> > Type           Destination                           GatewayF > AN  * 0.0.0.0                             * 10.0.0.1         router1C > AN  * 10.1.0.0/16                         * 10.0.0.11        VELO H > DH  * 127.0.0.1        LOCALHOST          * 127.0.0.1        LOCALHOST >i >  > $ tcpip show interface/full  >  Interface: SE0nL >    IP_Addr: 10.0.0.10         NETWRK: 255.255.255.240   BRDCST: 10.0.0.255G >                        Ethernet_Addr: AA-00-04-00-05-04    MTU:  1500e >      Flags: None7 >                                   RECEIVE        SEND 7 >    Packets                         362933      165932o7 >      Errors                             0           0c+ >    Collisions:                          0o >t >Q >  Interface: LO0sL >    IP_Addr: 127.0.0.1         NETWRK: 255.0.0.0         BRDCST: 10.0.0.255 >      Flags: None7 >                                   RECEIVE        SEND 7 >    Packets                            487         487d7 >      Errors                             0           0j+ >    Collisions:                          0  >t >i >iK > Comments: now, I have 255.255.255.240 as network mask. That seems to have I > worked fine for all 3 machines on my ether, as well as the router. Thatl shouldL > give me an effective address range between 10.0.0.0 and 10.0.0.15, correct > ????  (240 is F0 in hex).h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 18:36:15 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b* Subject: Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question, Message-ID: <3D75394D.B80A264F@videotron.ca>   Matt Muggeridge wrote:N > However, you should have automatic routes configured when you configure yourK > interface.  The automatic routes point to themselves.  For instance, your D > 10.0.0.10 interface ought to have the following associated routes: > " >     Type   Destination   Gateway# >     AN    10.0.0.0/16   10.0.0.10r$ >     AH    10.0.0.10      10.0.0.10  - > Neither of these exist.  Were they removed?o  K Nop. as a matter of fact, on VELO, I just installed TCPIP services and justnN put my router (10.0.0.1) as default gateway, and the TCPIP$CONFIG just setup 2N routes, the one to the router, and the loopback 127.0.0.1 to itself.  This was< the TCPIP 5.0-9 which came with the hobbyist package on VAX.  I I can understand the first AN route, telling it to route anything for thecB 10.0.0.* subnet through the interface bearing IP address 10.0.0.10  , But what does the second route accomplish ?    > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA   - laptops on the beach ???? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)2N Is Gold Coast an actual locality ? I thought it denoted the regions made up ofM many localities such as Coolangatta, Surfers Paradise and the many beaches iny2 between ? (is SOuthport included in Gold Coast ?).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:59:54 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>t* Subject: Re: TCPIP services: SLIP question/ Message-ID: <unamoc8m8d5vae@news.supernews.com>a  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D75394D.B80A264F@videotron.ca... > Matt Muggeridge wrote:K > > However, you should have automatic routes configured when you configuree yourH > > interface.  The automatic routes point to themselves.  For instance, yourF > > 10.0.0.10 interface ought to have the following associated routes: > >-$ > >     Type   Destination   Gateway% > >     AN    10.0.0.0/16   10.0.0.10O& > >     AH    10.0.0.10      10.0.0.10 >:/ > > Neither of these exist.  Were they removed?1 >2H > Nop. as a matter of fact, on VELO, I just installed TCPIP services and justH > put my router (10.0.0.1) as default gateway, and the TCPIP$CONFIG just setup 2lL > routes, the one to the router, and the loopback 127.0.0.1 to itself.  This wass> > the TCPIP 5.0-9 which came with the hobbyist package on VAX. >aK > I can understand the first AN route, telling it to route anything for theaD > 10.0.0.* subnet through the interface bearing IP address 10.0.0.10 >e- > But what does the second route accomplish ?     G Good question, my interface has the network route (AN) but not the hostrI route and I don't go through a router to get to host in the same network.a   >  > > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering > > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAd >e/ > laptops on the beach ???? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)lJ > Is Gold Coast an actual locality ? I thought it denoted the regions made up ofoL > many localities such as Coolangatta, Surfers Paradise and the many beaches in4 > between ? (is SOuthport included in Gold Coast ?).   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.487 ************************