1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 10 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 499       Contents: ACP AUTOGEN mystery solved2 Re: Alpha system model # changing after an upgrade Re: Backup record layout RE: Backup record layout Re: Backup record layout+ Re: Burning an image with an unknown format + Re: Burning an image with an unknown format - Command to log TCPIP SMTP commands to a file? 1 Re: Command to log TCPIP SMTP commands to a file?  Re: Compression Utility? Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MBA Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group # Re: DECserver and VMS installation? # Re: DECserver and VMS installation? # Re: DECserver and VMS installation? # Re: DECserver and VMS installation? # Re: DECserver and VMS installation? # Re: DECserver and VMS installation? 1 Re: Encompass - how long before I get a response? . Re: Hobbyist vs Startup Business and Licensing. Re: Hobbyist vs Startup Business and Licensing7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax 7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax  Re: ImageMagick freeware Re: ImageMagick freeware Re: ImageMagick freeware Re: Itanic2 performance  Re: Itanic2 performance  Re: Itanic2 performance P Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS  just yawnsP Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!P Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!P Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!P Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!< Re: Licenses, MicroVAX 3800 Console (was: Re: Two questions)  Re: Looking for a VMS favour....  Re: Looking for a VMS favour.... Re: MANUaL DCL Re: MANUaL DCL RE: MANUaL DCL8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance ' Re: the sky is falling says Nominum Inc  Re: VMS - where to startA Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: Who are the largest VMS customers. Top ten? (Was: VMS and HP) @ Re: XFC V2.0 and VDDRIVER (was: RE: XFC v2 ECO, negative report)< Re: YEA!  I have a working Dec 3000 300 alpha, RISC and IDE?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 13:45:07 -0700 . From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)# Subject: ACP AUTOGEN mystery solved = Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209091245.5e91d32f@posting.google.com>   D A while ago I asked why AUTOGEN sometimes raises ACP parameters whenE the statistics don't seem to justify it. Well, I have since found the  answer.   D It appears that AUTOGEN will scale ACP parameters that have 100% hit@ rates by changes in MAXPROCESSCNT or BALSETCNT, depending on theE parameter in question. I noticed that whenever it happened, those two = parameters also changed by the same percentage. Then a little F experimenting with ADD_BALSETCNT showed that some scale with BALSETCNT" and others scale to MAXPROCESSCNT.     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 21:09:47 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman); Subject: Re: Alpha system model # changing after an upgrade * Message-ID: <alj2mr$nit$5@web1.cup.hp.com>  P In article <00A136D2.079830C7@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:K :A customer claims that an OpenVMS upgrade from V7.1-2 to V7.2-1 causes the L :HW_MODEL number to change from 1838 (V7.1-2) to 1920 (V7.2-1).  I don't be-L :lieve this is possible.  I do believe that this customer is simply lying to9 :get a product licensing key for unauthorized hardware.    : 0 :Will somebody please verify this here for me?       Model   System9   1838    AlphaServer DS20 EV6-class 500 MHz uniprocessor ;   1920    AlphaServer DS20 EV6-class 500 MHz dual-processor   G   I've not heard of any case where solely an OpenVMS upgrade has caused H   this model number change.  Further, OpenVMS does not itself know aboutJ   this particular detail of the Alpha system, (only) the SRM console does.H   OpenVMS retrieves the Alpha model information (name, number, etc) fromI   the SRM console as part of Dynamic System Recognition (DSR) processing.   ?   I'd expect that a processor module was added into the system.   > In article <00A136D2.079830C7@SendSpamHere.ORG>, "Hans Vlems"  <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:   K :Two VAXstations report the the same value for HW_NAME but return different J :values for HW_MODEL. Now that does not answer your question, but it shows) :that there are possible inconsistencies.   L   The OpenVMS VAX and VAX system licensing implementation is quite differentG   from those of OpenVMS Alpha and particularly of all DSR-capable Alpha H   systems.  With OpenVMS VAX, knowledge of the model code and model nameE   is built directly into OpenVMS itself.  As mentioned above, OpenVMS F   Alpha simply asks SRM (on DSR-capable systems) for this information.  H   On both OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha, HW_NAME is a display field, andH   intended to provide a reasonable interpretation of the system hardware8   identification.  This string can potentially change.    G   Itanium systems have rather differing internal implementation in this J   area, particularly given that no global source(s) for uniquely assigningH   hardware model codes exist(s).  (We've been having "fun" here, too, asJ   this leads to changes in how the supporting images within OpenVMS itself   can be organized.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 19:02:47 GMT  From: "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> ! Subject: Re: Backup record layout 0 Message-ID: <rf6f9.845$hf3.7582@typhoon.bart.nl>  < "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> schreef in bericht% news:3D7BB1CB.5020405@mail.tele.dk...  > Hans Vlems wrote:  > F > > Has the record layout of a VMS backup saveset ever been published? >  > > > Rumours say that it was in the doc set for some of the first > VMS version. Before my time.  L I thought I'd seen it in one of the V3.4 manuals. That was in 1984 or so andC those manuals are long gone. My memory may be failing me as well...    > A couple of suggestions: > 6 > 1)  Try and find a copy of the vmsbackup program for >      Unix and study that.   J Good point. I've written a small program that decodes a saveset with known	 contents. L At this point it can find the names of the savesets, the backup command, theI user that created the saveset and the saveset name itself. Which is close K enough to what I need. There is no reason to extract the saveset as long as ' I have VMS systems that can do that :-)   ) > 2)  BACK/ANALYZE reveals a lot of info.   ' Haven't tried that one, thank you Arne.  > Arne >  Hans >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:20:13 -0400; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> ! Subject: RE: Backup record layout K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA83@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   ? Why don't you look at the program that fixes saveset attributes # that's on the Freeware CDs as well?    You might get some hints there.    WWWebb     -----Original Message-----& From: "H.Vlems" [mailto:hvlems@iae.nl]( Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 3:02 PM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" ! Subject: RE: Backup record layout     < "Arne Vajhoj" <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> schreef in bericht% news:3D7BB1CB.5020405@mail.tele.dk...  > Hans Vlems wrote:  > F > > Has the record layout of a VMS backup saveset ever been published? >  > > > Rumours say that it was in the doc set for some of the first > VMS version. Before my time.  L I thought I'd seen it in one of the V3.4 manuals. That was in 1984 or so andC those manuals are long gone. My memory may be failing me as well...    > A couple of suggestions: > 6 > 1)  Try and find a copy of the vmsbackup program for >      Unix and study that.   J Good point. I've written a small program that decodes a saveset with known	 contents. L At this point it can find the names of the savesets, the backup command, theI user that created the saveset and the saveset name itself. Which is close K enough to what I need. There is no reason to extract the saveset as long as ' I have VMS systems that can do that :-)   ) > 2)  BACK/ANALYZE reveals a lot of info.   ' Haven't tried that one, thank you Arne.  > Arne >  Hans >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:42:53 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>! Subject: Re: Backup record layout 6 Message-ID: <alitlq$1q58mt$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  < "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> schreef in bericht- news:ldcRk$X68h9M@eisner.encompasserve.org... E > In article <alfe95$1p60po$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems"  <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: F > > Has the record layout of a VMS backup saveset ever been published? > / > I thought it was in the VMS V3 documentation.    Larry,  K that's what my memory was telling me: it was in the V3.4 VMS docs. Now that K set is long gone; unfortunately the info as well... Eric Ebinger pointed me I to SYSEXAMPLES and there are definitions of the backup datastructures; in 1 fortran, c and assembler so that is a good start.    Hans   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 17:53:12 -0700 , From: srp336@getcoactive.com (Steve Pfister)4 Subject: Re: Burning an image with an unknown format= Message-ID: <45126e60.0209091653.72523f7e@posting.google.com>   ` "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message news:<ald1il$1nv6hh$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>...= > "Steve Pfister" <srp336@getcoactive.com> schreef in bericht M > Perhaps it is a disk image file that may be used by a simulator, like simh. J > Does W2K report a single file, like VMS073.DSK and a size of 534.542 kB?  T It's a single file...the name is hobbyist72.img and has a size of 681,578,496 bytes.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 19:43:57 -0700 , From: srp336@getcoactive.com (Steve Pfister)4 Subject: Re: Burning an image with an unknown format= Message-ID: <45126e60.0209091843.42145c8e@posting.google.com>   G > Tell it you want to burn a disc from an image (or ISO) file and point  > it at the A > 7.2 image file. Hey Presto! That should be it, bootable on your 2 > MicroVAX (I assume you have a DEC CDROM drive).   B I renamed the file with a .iso extension (from .img) and burned itE using Nero. There were no errors, but it doesn't boot (it halts a few E seconds after it starts). Is there anyway to tell if there's anything E on the disk using a w2k pc? I don't have a single working VMS machine  at this point.  E I also don't have a DEC CD drive. There was no CD in the machine, but   I have an external drive or two.   Thanks!  --Steve    ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 18:36:23 GMT9 From: moroney@world.std.spaaamtraap.com (Michael Moroney) 6 Subject: Command to log TCPIP SMTP commands to a file?' Message-ID: <H26p0n.903H@world.std.com>   K I have a VMS system on the net which receives very little legitimate email. J By looking through log files, I see connections from unknown IP addresses,L presumably spammers trolling for email addresses or open relays. (amazingly,E no account on that system receives any spam)  I am a bit curious what F they are up to, is there some sort of incantation that causes the SMTPF process to log the SMTP commands issued to a file?  I'm using Compaq's$ own TCPIP (formerly UCX) IP product.   -Mike    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 19:08:58 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>: Subject: Re: Command to log TCPIP SMTP commands to a file?0 Message-ID: <3D7CF027.7BD2B638@blueyonder.co.uk>   Michael Moroney wrote: > M > I have a VMS system on the net which receives very little legitimate email. L > By looking through log files, I see connections from unknown IP addresses,N > presumably spammers trolling for email addresses or open relays. (amazingly,G > no account on that system receives any spam)  I am a bit curious what H > they are up to, is there some sort of incantation that causes the SMTPH > process to log the SMTP commands issued to a file?  I'm using Compaq's& > own TCPIP (formerly UCX) IP product. >   Q SMTP logging options for UCX/TCP IP Services are covered in the System Management   manuals for UCX/TCP IP Services.   Regards.   > -Mike    --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 23:04:24 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Compression Utility? * Message-ID: <alj9do$ss6$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  d In article <dandnucgt9k7cdc9njjhlnk131a9v2edik@4ax.com>, FalconFan <falconfan@falconfan.com> writes:* :I'm in need of a VMS compression utility.  '   Use Zip.  Please see the OpenVMS FAQ.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 20:39:05 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB * Message-ID: <alj0t9$nit$4@web1.cup.hp.com>  g In article <2119a17f.0209051341.237f1101@posting.google.com>, geff@excite.com (geff@excite.com) writes: ; :I checked the faq and it doesn't mention how to do this.        ???   ? :Is there a simple way to convert the block figures I get when  4 :I do a "dir" to megabytes which is the way I think?     Quoting from the FAQ:   :     To convert OpenVMS disk blocks to (base two) kilobytes6     (KB; 1024 bytes), simply divide by two. To convert:     blocks to (base two) megabytes, divide by 2048. Blocks4     to (base two) gigabytes (GB), divide by 2097152.  0   The above text was extracted from the section:  9     14.45  How do I convert? Disk Blocks? KB, MB, GB, TB?   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:06:01 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB ' Message-ID: <3D7D4ADD.45E7B55D@fsi.net>    Brian Tillman wrote: >  > >Oops! Try again!  > I > David, you try again and read what I said this time.  Here is is again:  >  > > A close J > > approximation is to divide the number of blocks by 2000 and that's the > > megabytes. > $ > Notice the word "approximation"???  ? "Approximation" in this case means "error". The difference *IS*  significant!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:04:40 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB ' Message-ID: <3D7D4A88.D2357918@fsi.net>W   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:- > ] > In article <3D7A19CC.8E3F9EA9@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:v > > David Froble wrote:: > >> > >> David J. Dachtera wrote:h > >> > >> > Brian Tillman wrote:r > >> >L > >> >>>I checked the faq and it doesn't mention how to do this.  Is there aJ > >> >>>simple way to convert the block figures I get when I do a "dir" to+ > >> >>>megabytes which is the way I think?s > >> >>>M > >> >>Since each block is 0.5K, the arithmetic is straight forward.  A close3M > >> >>approximation is to divide the number of blocks by 2000 and that's them< > >> >>megabytes.  For example, 2000 blocks is one megabyte. > >> >>r > >> > > >> > Oops! Try again!p > >> >) > >> > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say 1024 * 1024p > >> > 1048576( > >> > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say 512 * 2048 > >> > 1048576 > >> >M > >> > A megabyte is 2048 blocks, not 2000. Remember: machines deal in powerss= > >> > of two, REGARDLESS of what the disk salesmen tell you!i > >> >J > >> > Remember also that 1K = 1024 bytes. Therefore, 0.5K = 512 bytes = 1( > >> > block (one track for one sector). > >> > > >> > > >>U > >> Sorry, I'll go with Brian on this one.  Remember, he said "close approximation",sR > >> and dividing by 2000 will get you close.  With people using x.xx GB, and manyL > >> times ignoring the fractional part of the number, close seems to be Ok. > >>R > >> Gee, is this the same Dave that was talking about precision and accuracy last > >> evening?  :-) > >e& > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say 200000/2048 > > 97$ > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say 50000/512 > > 97 > >e$ > > WOW!!! 3% error in both cases!!! > > H > > If that's "close" to you, I'd avoid working in either the financial,9 > > healthcare or scientific industries, if I were you..., > - > Getting into this silly religious debate...  > G > There's close and there's close.  And even in finance, healthcare andl > science, 3% can be close.   $ Sure, if the numbers are big enough.  E > In the health care field, deltas of well over 50% in pharmaceutical F > dosage are usually acceptable.  The concentration in the bloodstreamE > of oral antibiotics fluctuates wildly and the notion of managing itcG > to 3% accuracy using a twice-a-day prescription dispensed in standard9 > tablets is simply ludicrous.  D Then again, as a chemist, one might be a bit concerned if tolerancesC start to get into the 0.03% range, from what my friend in St. LouisvE tells me (he's been making radio-pharmaceuticals essentialy since gotb) his PhD from MIT back circa. 1978 or so).W  A > In the financial community, we have estimates of net worth that 4 > can be off by orders of magnitude.  (think Enron).   Consider the impact.   >  The stock market-@ > can give you a value estimate that has three or four digits ofF > precision.  But a claim that stock price reflects true company value4 > to within 3% accuracy would be dubious in general.  G ...as long as you're talking about the count of shares in total and not C the cash value of an individual share. An error of 3% multiplied by @ millions can be, well, "significant" hardly seems strong enough.  B > In science, I really don't care if the gauge on that cylinder of@ > compressed helium reads 2900 or 3000 psi.  I've got a pressure8 > regulator on it and the thing I really I care about is< > not running out of helium in the middle of the experiment.  H I think you might care if the concentration of a reagent in your processE at x produces a useable product, but (x * 1.03) yields something thata2 you'd rather not have to report to the government.  A > In the field of computer system management, I usually find thatTB > accuracy within ten percent is plenty good enough.  If I have anF > 18 gig drive with 12 gig used by project A, 2 gig used by project B, > and 4 gig of free space, ...  D Now, multiply those values by 100 and see what your 3% error does to your hardware budget...   . > it really doesn't matter to me whether those2 > figures are disk megabytes or memory megabytes.   < A megabyte is a megabyte is a megabyte is a megabyte is a...  , Machines deal in powers of two. Get over it.  E ...or even better: miscalculate the size of your Oracle global memorySH region by using decimal instead of binary and then try to figure out whyC you can't get your database loaded into memory like it needs to be.o   > Truncation versus  > rounding is a bigger concern.e  G Indeed. Rounding you can live with: 8.5GB rounded up to 9GB will work. oE If you need 8.5GB, but you calculate that as 8.5 times (1024 * 1000 *oG 1000) (i.e., "truncate" it) instead of 8.5 * 1024 * 1024 * 1024, you'lltF do much head-scratching wondering why an 8.5GB area won't fit into theC memory you've made available for it: 8,704,000,000 bytes. (Hint: itl% really requires 9,126,805,504 bytes.)    -- c David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems) http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:10:20 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>lJ Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group. Message-ID: <gwcf9.370221$me6.42411@sccrnsc01>  4 Only 199 to go! That'll pay for a lot of peecee ads.  
 What cretins!.  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C8AB@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..E > I've heard of at least one OpenVMS Ambassador that was part of thiss > reduction. >s > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**, >l >F > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: r_mclean [mailto:bobmclean@bellsouth.net] . > > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:50 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComeH > > Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems	 > > GroupS > >- > >.@ > > Well, about 7,000 have been "workforce reduced" as of today, > > with about 200A > > out of ESG, so the 70% number (which is 10,500) is impossable  > > to hit. And he< > > is right ESG should be able to make money at the current > > level of sales.o > >@ > >a9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message A > > news:tVTd9.448714$m91.17412495@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...1 > > >0B > > http://investor.cnet.com/investor/brokeragecenter/newsitem-bro > ker/0-9910-108 > > 2-20371578-0.html?tag=ltnc > >oI > > "The key to turning the Enterprise Systems Group (ESG) around is costcL > > cutting. He plans to take out $150-200 million in the next two quarters;J > > some 70% of the planned 15,000 headcount reduction could be in ESG. He > saidE > > that ESG should be able to make money with no revenue growth. Anys* > > improvement can be quickly leveraged." > > ) > > The news just keeps getting better...  > >5 > >  > >  >v >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:24:27 GMTl1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)-J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group; Message-ID: <vJcf9.247128$Yd.9660992@twister.austin.rr.com>-  0 Terry C. Shannon (terryshannon@attbi.com) wrote:6 : Only 199 to go! That'll pay for a lot of peecee ads. :  : What cretins!f : H Perhaps the apparent firing of Bruce Perens for being too anti-MicrosoftK and too pro-Linux is meant to send a message to the non-Wintel H-P staff...c  ;    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/09/technology/09SOFT.htmli     Balancing Linux and Microsoft  A   "For nearly two years, Bruce Perens was a senior strategist fori<    open-source software at Hewlett-Packard an evangelist and@    rabble-rouser on behalf of a computing counterculture that isH    increasingly moving into the mainstream. Part of the job description,3    he was told, was to "challenge H.P. management."i    cB    His last day as a Hewlett-Packard employee was 10 days ago. TheH    parting was amicable, Mr. Perens said, but he was fired "officially aD    termination," he noted. "It came after a long, long warning," Mr.F    Perens explained. "The thing that I did that was most hazardous for/    H.P. is the Microsoft-baiting I tend to do."e    k	    [snip]a     H    Yet beyond the postmerger atmosphere at Hewlett, Mr. Perens also saysD    that he had been taking a more outspoken stance against MicrosoftH    recently. "Microsoft is out to crush Linux as a competitor," said Mr.F    Perens, who became truly galvanized after the emergence in May of aG    Microsoft-backed industry group, the Initiative for Software Choice.dD    Besides the chip maker Intel, a close Microsoft ally, most of the@    other 20 or so members are smaller foreign companies or trade    organizations..."    t  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:10:07 -0700 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group/ Message-ID: <unqvl7gb4orva0@corp.supernews.com>    Jerry Leslie wrote:i2 > Terry C. Shannon (terryshannon@attbi.com) wrote:8 > : Only 199 to go! That'll pay for a lot of peecee ads. > :  > : What cretins!  > : J > Perhaps the apparent firing of Bruce Perens for being too anti-MicrosoftM > and too pro-Linux is meant to send a message to the non-Wintel H-P staff...i  D The issues were not that simple. Perens had made things a little hot< for himself in a number of areas, not just by being anti-MS.   -- V
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:08:33 +0100= From: "Colin Butcher" <colinDOT.butcherAT@xdeltaDOT.coDOT.uk>!, Subject: Re: DECserver and VMS installation?@ Message-ID: <ns5f9.29202$rd2.13057@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>  J You'll find the software on the older VAX layered product CDs. You'll findI the documentation on the corresponding layered product documentation CDs, J most likely in Bookreader format. The OpenVMS VAX Software Product LibraryJ December 1996 CD set contains "DECserver 200 for VMS", product code VCBAA,D Version V3.3, in directory [DS2033...] on CD 4/12. The correspondingJ documentation is in OpenVMS VAX Online Documentation Library December 1996J on CD2/4. These look to be just what you need. You might find them on more recent CD sets if you're lucky.i  L I recommend that you also look at TSM V2.1 on the Freeware CDs. Worth using,L even with one DECserver, as TSM will give you a means to easily recreate all, the settings from scratch via command files.  H What was the 'network division' in DEC was sold off to Cabletron as DNPGH (Digital Networks Product Group) just before the Compaq takeover of DEC.G Since then Cabletron sold it off as Digital Networks (complete with theMI 'old' burgundy Digital logo) to Vnetek, but Cabletron kept on some of theaL product set. Since then Cabletron has split up into various pieces, of whichK Enterasys now sells what was the Cabletron stuff they carried on from DNPG.   K Digital Networks still sells and supports DECservers, including new models.-L They also sell and support a whole load of new high performance stuff, along9 with all the 'traditional' other DEC networking hardware.:  D You won't find the DECserver software available for download as it'sJ licensed software, not free software. The licence goes with the DECserver,' not the load host - and there's no PAK.e  K The biggest pitfalls are usually in setting up the load host to service MOPOK (Maintenance Operation Protocol) load requests. You can use DECnet Phase V,EI DECnet Phase IV or LANACP. Given the age of the DECserver 200 software it J will probably be easiest for you to use DECnet Phase IV, but with a bit of9 care it's easy enough to set up DECnet Phase V or LANACP.e  H I assume that by 4000/60 you mean VAXstation 4000-60, so you're actually running OpenVMS VAX V7.2   -- Hope this helps. Cheers, Colin. ' (colinDOT.butcherAT@xdeltaDOT.coDOT.uk)     5 "John Clausen" <jkclausen@yahoo.com> wrote in messagea- news:p_2f9.417$ww3.152440@news.randori.com...eD > Hello, I hope this is not off topic, but I am running VMS 7.2 on a 4000/60.: > I also have a DECserver 200/MC that I would like to use. >eJ > Where would I find some good documentation on setting up this DECserver?@ > Also, is the software image it is looking for included in VMS? >2! > Thanks in advance for the help,i >s > John Clausen >l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:38:51 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>, Subject: Re: DECserver and VMS installation?6 Message-ID: <alitcr$1q9mos$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  7 "John Clausen" <jkclausen@yahoo.com> schreef in berichta- news:p_2f9.417$ww3.152440@news.randori.com...oD > Hello, I hope this is not off topic, but I am running VMS 7.2 on a 4000/60.: > I also have a DECserver 200/MC that I would like to use. >uJ > Where would I find some good documentation on setting up this DECserver?@ > Also, is the software image it is looking for included in VMS? > ! > Thanks in advance for the help,e  E Your setup is similar to mine, but I have a DS100. You need to do twoa things:   L - get the load host file for the DS200, IIRC it is called PR0801ENG.SYS (the/ DS100 uses a file that is called PS0801ENG.SYS)rB - make sure LANCP is running (i.e. put @sys$startup:lan$startup in. systartup_vms.com) and configure it like this:  
 $ mc lancp3 lancp>define node ds200/address=08-00-2b-11-22-33 - =             /boot_type=other/file=PR0801ENG.SYS/root=MOM$LOADf $ reply/enable=net  G At this point power up the DS200, make sure you have a transceiver withiL heartbeat enabled and watch it load. The on-board HELP is of typical Digital0 quality, hardly any need for additional manuals.   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 20:41:40 GMTn( From: jkclausen@yahoo.com (John Clausen), Subject: Re: DECserver and VMS installation?3 Message-ID: <7I7f9.422$ww3.167997@news.randori.com>e  ! Thank you very much for the help.p  % I do not have the Layered Product CD. 8 Is there anywhere I can download the PR0801ENG.SYS file?  
 Thanks again,y   John Clausen  L In article <alitcr$1q9mos$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, hvlems@iae.nl says... >e >a8 >"John Clausen" <jkclausen@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht. >news:p_2f9.417$ww3.152440@news.randori.com...E >> Hello, I hope this is not off topic, but I am running VMS 7.2 on a>	 >4000/60.-; >> I also have a DECserver 200/MC that I would like to use.V >>K >> Where would I find some good documentation on setting up this DECserver?oA >> Also, is the software image it is looking for included in VMS?n >>" >> Thanks in advance for the help, >mF >Your setup is similar to mine, but I have a DS100. You need to do two >things: >VM >- get the load host file for the DS200, IIRC it is called PR0801ENG.SYS (the80 >DS100 uses a file that is called PS0801ENG.SYS)C >- make sure LANCP is running (i.e. put @sys$startup:lan$startup inl/ >systartup_vms.com) and configure it like this:h >e >$ mc lancpf4 >lancp>define node ds200/address=08-00-2b-11-22-33 -> >            /boot_type=other/file=PR0801ENG.SYS/root=MOM$LOAD >$ reply/enable=nety >mH >At this point power up the DS200, make sure you have a transceiver withM >heartbeat enabled and watch it load. The on-board HELP is of typical Digital 1 >quality, hardly any need for additional manuals.d >c >Hanst >v   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 20:46:54 GMTi From: "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> , Subject: Re: DECserver and VMS installation?0 Message-ID: <2N7f9.848$hf3.7578@typhoon.bart.nl>  J If you've got a moment I'll check the freeware cd. If it is there I'll zip it and email it to you.  7 "John Clausen" <jkclausen@yahoo.com> schreef in berichtg- news:0H2600EZKUTFX3@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net... # > Thank you very much for the help.  >o' > I do not have the Layered Product CD.r: > Is there anywhere I can download the PR0801ENG.SYS file? >- > Thanks again,S >2 > John Clausen > F > In article <alitcr$1q9mos$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, hvlems@iae.nl says...  > >d > >u: > >"John Clausen" <jkclausen@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht0 > >news:p_2f9.417$ww3.152440@news.randori.com...G > >> Hello, I hope this is not off topic, but I am running VMS 7.2 on aM > >4000/60.D= > >> I also have a DECserver 200/MC that I would like to use.e > >>B > >> Where would I find some good documentation on setting up this
 DECserver?C > >> Also, is the software image it is looking for included in VMS?e > >>$ > >> Thanks in advance for the help, > > H > >Your setup is similar to mine, but I have a DS100. You need to do two
 > >things: > >>J > >- get the load host file for the DS200, IIRC it is called PR0801ENG.SYS (the2 > >DS100 uses a file that is called PS0801ENG.SYS)E > >- make sure LANCP is running (i.e. put @sys$startup:lan$startup in 1 > >systartup_vms.com) and configure it like this:s > >0
 > >$ mc lancph6 > >lancp>define node ds200/address=08-00-2b-11-22-33 -@ > >            /boot_type=other/file=PR0801ENG.SYS/root=MOM$LOAD > >$ reply/enable=neta > >4J > >At this point power up the DS200, make sure you have a transceiver withG > >heartbeat enabled and watch it load. The on-board HELP is of typicalh Digital 3 > >quality, hardly any need for additional manuals.k > >s > >Hansy > >  >> >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:00:56 GMT1. From: jjclausen@co.walker.tx.us (John Clausen), Subject: Re: DECserver and VMS installation?3 Message-ID: <YCaf9.425$ww3.176507@news.randori.com>o   Thanks, that would be great.F After looking around, I found out that it used to be available on the 8 Digital/Compaq/HP ftp site, but it is not there anymore.  
 Thanks again,G   John Clausen      F In article <2N7f9.848$hf3.7578@typhoon.bart.nl>, hvlems@iae.nl says... > K >If you've got a moment I'll check the freeware cd. If it is there I'll zips >it0 >and email it to you.  >O8 >"John Clausen" <jkclausen@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht. >news:0H2600EZKUTFX3@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net...$ >> Thank you very much for the help. >>( >> I do not have the Layered Product CD.; >> Is there anywhere I can download the PR0801ENG.SYS file?r >> >> Thanks again, >> >> John Clausen  >>G >> In article <alitcr$1q9mos$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, hvlems@iae.nl  >says... >> > >> >; >> >"John Clausen" <jkclausen@yahoo.com> schreef in berichte1 >> >news:p_2f9.417$ww3.152440@news.randori.com...dH >> >> Hello, I hope this is not off topic, but I am running VMS 7.2 on a >> >4000/60.> >> >> I also have a DECserver 200/MC that I would like to use. >> >>lC >> >> Where would I find some good documentation on setting up thisb >DECserver?iD >> >> Also, is the software image it is looking for included in VMS? >> >>o% >> >> Thanks in advance for the help,p >> >I >> >Your setup is similar to mine, but I have a DS100. You need to do two  >> >things:n >> >K >> >- get the load host file for the DS200, IIRC it is called PR0801ENG.SYSa >(the.3 >> >DS100 uses a file that is called PS0801ENG.SYS)oF >> >- make sure LANCP is running (i.e. put @sys$startup:lan$startup in2 >> >systartup_vms.com) and configure it like this: >> > >> >$ mc lancp7 >> >lancp>define node ds200/address=08-00-2b-11-22-33 - A >> >            /boot_type=other/file=PR0801ENG.SYS/root=MOM$LOADn >> >$ reply/enable=net >> >K >> >At this point power up the DS200, make sure you have a transceiver withfH >> >heartbeat enabled and watch it load. The on-board HELP is of typical >Digital4 >> >quality, hardly any need for additional manuals. >> > >> >Hans >> > >> >> >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:10:50 GMTu- From: jclausen@co.walker.tx.us (John Clausen) , Subject: Re: DECserver and VMS installation?3 Message-ID: <Iwcf9.577$ww3.180498@news.randori.com>r  " Thanks to everyone for their help.    Sorry for the email confusion...  K My newsreader was using my old email address, I changed it and made a typo.l  
 Thanks again,c   John    N In article <YCaf9.425$ww3.176507@news.randori.com>, jjclausen@co.walker.tx.us  says...o >t >Thanks, that would be great. G >After looking around, I found out that it used to be available on the  9 >Digital/Compaq/HP ftp site, but it is not there anymore.t >a >Thanks again, >t
 >John Clauseno >  >i >eG >In article <2N7f9.848$hf3.7578@typhoon.bart.nl>, hvlems@iae.nl says...  >>L >>If you've got a moment I'll check the freeware cd. If it is there I'll zip >>it >>and email it to you. >>9 >>"John Clausen" <jkclausen@yahoo.com> schreef in berichti/ >>news:0H2600EZKUTFX3@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net...w% >>> Thank you very much for the help.i >>>e) >>> I do not have the Layered Product CD.v< >>> Is there anywhere I can download the PR0801ENG.SYS file? >>>n >>> Thanks again,o >>>  >>> John Clausen >>> H >>> In article <alitcr$1q9mos$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, hvlems@iae.nl	 >>says..." >>> >e >>> >n< >>> >"John Clausen" <jkclausen@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht2 >>> >news:p_2f9.417$ww3.152440@news.randori.com...I >>> >> Hello, I hope this is not off topic, but I am running VMS 7.2 on al
 >>> >4000/60.2? >>> >> I also have a DECserver 200/MC that I would like to use.  >>> >>D >>> >> Where would I find some good documentation on setting up this >>DECserver?E >>> >> Also, is the software image it is looking for included in VMS?: >>> >>& >>> >> Thanks in advance for the help, >>> >iJ >>> >Your setup is similar to mine, but I have a DS100. You need to do two >>> >things: >>> >gL >>> >- get the load host file for the DS200, IIRC it is called PR0801ENG.SYS >>(the4 >>> >DS100 uses a file that is called PS0801ENG.SYS)G >>> >- make sure LANCP is running (i.e. put @sys$startup:lan$startup inA3 >>> >systartup_vms.com) and configure it like this:  >>> >t >>> >$ mc lancps8 >>> >lancp>define node ds200/address=08-00-2b-11-22-33 -B >>> >            /boot_type=other/file=PR0801ENG.SYS/root=MOM$LOAD >>> >$ reply/enable=neta >>> >gL >>> >At this point power up the DS200, make sure you have a transceiver withI >>> >heartbeat enabled and watch it load. The on-board HELP is of typical:	 >>Digitals5 >>> >quality, hardly any need for additional manuals.r >>> > 	 >>> >Hans  >>> >  >>>  >>>  >> >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:07:36 GMTo1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> : Subject: Re: Encompass - how long before I get a response?. Message-ID: <Itcf9.370194$me6.42316@sccrnsc01>  0 "NetBoot" <netboot@netboot.com> wrote in message/ news:MPG.17e2da227616fe5a98971b@news.ptd.net...bC > I've signed up for Encompass Tuesday.  How does it take to get ani* > account and what should I do if I don't?  A I would join INTEREX. Thirty bucks a year AND you get a magazine!n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:40:38 GMTl1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a7 Subject: Re: Hobbyist vs Startup Business and Licensingc' Message-ID: <3D7D44E4.EF7C3A09@fsi.net>t   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > Paul Sture wrote:  > >hk > > In article <3D7B8B37.284B2A36@blueyonder.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:  > > >  > > >e > > > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > >> > > >> Michael,e > > >>) > > >> >>> When VMS is free on new PCs<<<R > > >>N > > >> The MS OS is certainly not "free" on new PC's. You pay for the MS OS as5 > > >> part of the PC purchase. It is simply bundled.a > > >>; > > >> >>> sells with a single user license for $99/copy<<<  > > >>( > > >> OpenVMS Hobbyist license is free.( > > >> http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ > > >>I > > >> There are obviously other area's to compare, but the ones you havem, > > >> raised are not good ones you can use. > > >> > > >hO > > > However, Kerry, one can legitimately use the MS OS for business purposes,M > > > but not Hobbyist VMS.  > >,H > > A very valid point. It is crazy that I have an Alpha at home capableK > > of doing serious work (and yes, it's faster and has more memory than mynK > > system at work), yet if I wish to write some commercial software I needo  > > to fire up NT, Linux or Mac. > >"C > > I see a valid case for some type of "startup" license to targetaD > > small business users, starting with someone like me or yourself,F > > who would like to develop some useful software for VMS, running upD > > to a small company using it for useful things like stock control > > and invoicing. > >zD > > Let me put it another way. Let's leave all this image processingC > > and freeware stuff to the Open Source folks. Instead let us getrD > > on with true business applications, but at a price we can afford > > as startup types.r > >lG > > An example. I would be quite happy to pay <put what you can afford>,A > > into the VMS maintenance pot in return for the ability to usecH > > my system commercially. No big bucks for the moment, but potentiallyE > > a lot more. If it doesn't turn into big money, at least I had therC > > chance to give it a go, and meanwhile Compaq/HP have made a bitt: > > of money I would likely not spend with them otherwise. > >w >  > Paul,e > G > Yes, this has been my point for a long time. Actually, I now have got-E > VMS hobbyist running under ts10 on my linux box. I have VMS running@ > on Wintel! > O > I quite like the idea of a low cost Small Bizness VMS licence without support- > or warranty.  G Well, personally, I don't, but if it gets "Affordable OpenVMS" a start,sH well, I guess everyone has to start with baby steps. Take a look at someF of the links off of my "Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page" (linkC is in the sig., below), especially where it mentions my response tom; OVMS-Hobby as conveyed to DFWLUG some four years ago or so.   G > Maybe make it VAX only (how fast is ts10 on the latest Pentium box?),l< > but I'd prefer to be able to use cheap/old alphas as well.  @ Well, given that Alphas are condemned and VAXes are history, ...  L > Provide the same licences as hobbyiest program. ie let people who know howO > really develop killer VMS apps, use VMS as a multi-platform cross-development-2 > environment, all the stuff it really is good at.  D There's some good stuff left out of OVMS-Hobby. I'd like to see such5 restrictions lifted for commercial end-user licenses.r  N > When you want to play with the big boys (ie want a support contract) you can > join CSA etc.L  F What about end-users? Are non-developers (read: end users) eligible toG joing CSA and enjoy the "generous" discounts? (Some folks think they'renE generous, and I'm willing to bow to consensus, when it makes at leastm some sense to do so.)s  G I've asked this repeatedly, and no one has yet presented an answer thatsF makes any sense, business or otherwise: if end-users can't afford OVMSH and/or the hardware it runs on, who will there be to buy the products of the CSA members?  F Concession to the group: I realize I'm a bone-head, but that makes theG elusiveness of answers to such simple(-minded) questions that much moret astounding.   7 > Your clients have the same choice, deploy on Cheap...C  B I prefer "Affordable", though perhaps that likewise has a negative connotation.  ! > ...VMS without contract supporto6 > or pay the price for the supported product/services.  > How 'bout this model: pay for the product and support/services separately?n  G Now understand, no single sale is going to pay off Curly's mansion, putoG any of his kids through school or pay for a divorce so he and Carly caneH ... well, be that as it may, ... you're still gonna hafta "hustle": sellB the product (yes, that means "advertise", sorry to say) "early andG often" (the same way elections are held in here in Chicago: vote early,hF vote often), and no single support contract is going to build anyone's2 summer home, fund anyone's retirement savings, ...  F "Geez, DJ! Give us a BREAK, wi'ya? We GOTTA scam SOMEbody! EVERYbody'sG doing it, and we don't wanna be ostracized or look like goody-goodies!"e  G Some folks will settle for some pie rather than insisting on taking the @ whole thing. I tend to think the former group is inherently moreA successful than the latter. I believe precedent will support thata	 position.n   > Depends on their buisiness > needs.  B Every business's needs tend to be similar in basis, though perhapsC differing nature, but in the final analysis a suitable balance costoC effectiveness and cost of acquisition tends to go much further thanlC putting stressing cost effectiveness to justify onerous acquisition6G costs. At least, that's been my experience; YMMV considerably, possiblyr' even to point of diameteric opposition.   R > I'm sure there are a few wrinkles in this reasoning. Some might consider it willJ > devalue to overall perception of VMS, or will eat into support revenues.  G Not really. It's another one of those deals where you make less on each F sale, but you make more sales. ...and before anyone posts it, no, theyA don't balance perfectly: 50% reductions in price do NOT yield 50% A increases in volume. Sorry - that's the way the cookie crumbles. w  D To revitalize (read: firm up) the revenue stream, you're gonna haftaG sacrifice margin. Your margins will be lower, and your overall cashflowtA may go down somewhat compared to that same number of sales at thenH current margin. The pay-off comes in the form of a more stable cashflow.F Fluctuations in economic conditions will have less impact on your cashC flow the larger your customer base becomes. When you have 1 millionaF customers, you can afford to lose more of those customers during toughE times than you can having only 400,000 customers when the tough times  hit.  M > Now, how long before someone blows a minimal linux kernel running ts10 intod% > a replacement BIOS for Intel boxes?    Guess we'll see...  1 > > This is, after all, what M$ allows one to do.e > >rG > > Yes, I know I should consider the CSA thingy, but from memory, thatoF > > still does not allow me to run applications on a commercial basis.  H ...and it doesn't do anything for end-users who, let's face it, make theF whole possible. Like any other part of the economy, the OVMS market is& driven by consumers (read: end-users).  F Here again, I may be the only one who believes/understands that. So beG it. I've never been one to follow the crowd and I don't figure to starteG now. I prefer to watch the crowd and then do what they won't, meaning Ic) can get what they refuse to even try for.e   -- E David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:48:22 GMT.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 7 Subject: Re: Hobbyist vs Startup Business and Licensing H Message-ID: <Gbcf9.32462$V_5.15027@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D7D44E4.EF7C3A09@fsi.net...h >oI > Not really. It's another one of those deals where you make less on eachfH > sale, but you make more sales. ...and before anyone posts it, no, theyC > don't balance perfectly: 50% reductions in price do NOT yield 50%,B > increases in volume. Sorry - that's the way the cookie crumbles. >eF > To revitalize (read: firm up) the revenue stream, you're gonna haftaI > sacrifice margin. Your margins will be lower, and your overall cashflow C > may go down somewhat compared to that same number of sales at the J > current margin. The pay-off comes in the form of a more stable cashflow.H > Fluctuations in economic conditions will have less impact on your cashE > flow the larger your customer base becomes. When you have 1 millioniH > customers, you can afford to lose more of those customers during toughG > times than you can having only 400,000 customers when the tough times5 > hit.  L To paraphrase Ronald Reagan during his debate with Jimmy Carter, "Well thereK you go again David"......presupposing that HP will listen to any suggestionlK that will grow the VMS market, any more than Digital or Compaq did once the  rot set in."  E I can trot out at least a half-dozen letters I wrote to GQ Palmer andtI various and sundry marketing managers about the same issues a decade ago. L And letters I wrote to DEC 15-20 years ago about similar issues when it cameI to hardware...remember 'proprietary Unibus'??? and firmware specific hard1G disks and tape drives, where the specific firmware was a "RZ23" or "DEC  TZ10" or something like that??   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 19:02:55 GMT., From: Leonard Fehskens <len.fehskens@hp.com>@ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax; Message-ID: <Xns9284994B6CC24LenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153>u  6 Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in & news:3D7CCB5F.C3B9ABC2@mindspring.com:  , > I *THINK* the PDP-4 was a 12-bit system in > the PDP-5/PDP-8 vein.e > . > The PDP-7 was definitely an 18-bitter in the+ > PDP-9and PDP-15 family. (It was the first: > Unix machine!!!)  B IIRC, the -4 was a precursor of the -7.  I wrote a lot of code for* the -1, -7, -9 and -15, and the -10 later.   len.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 16:29:12 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>@ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax4 Message-ID: <1020909162316.416A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ) On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Atlant Schmidt wrote:r   > Paul Winalski wrote: > D > > I assume you mean the PDP-11.  'PDP' was the product designation* > > used for most of DEC's computer lines: > >a > > PDP-1, PDP-9, PDP-15 > > PDP-5, PDP-8 > > PDP-6, PDP-10o
 > > PDP-11 > >a( > > and I've probably forgotten several. > / > There wasn't any PDP-13, and I don't think we0, > ever had any PDP >=17 (The DECsystem/20 or5 > however it's capitalized/punctuated doesn't count).t > 5 > I don't remember the details of the PDP-2 and PDP-3 - > but I think they were all 18-bitters in ther
 > PDP-1 vein.u  5 I think one was an 18 and one was a 36.  Designed but 5 never actually built.  Standard PDP history lists theG- details, but I'm too lazy to look it up.  :-)f   > , > I *THINK* the PDP-4 was a 12-bit system in > the PDP-5/PDP-8 vein.'  9 The PDP-4 was an 18-bit follow-on to the PDP-1.  Slightlyd6 different instruction set.  I've actually used one.  A8 friend was implementing TECO for the PDP-4, and I helped; by writing the number conversion routines.  (Text to binaryI: and binary to text, various radices.)  Don't remember that  we ever actually got it working.  . > The PDP-7 was definitely an 18-bitter in the+ > PDP-9and PDP-15 family. (It was the firstn > Unix machine!!!) > $ > The PDP-12 was a PDP-8 with a LINC2 > processor (and was the successor to the LINC-8). > * > The PDP-14 was a 1-bit processor used as* > a PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) in, > industrial applications. It existed in two, > flavors: A system built out of small flip-- > chips and a later system built upon a PDP-8 ' > Omnibus and using a PDP-8 Core memory  > system as its "ROM". > - > The PDP-16 wasn't really a computer per so. . > It was a set of modules with which you could0 > implement simple RTL (Register Transfer Logic) > computers. >  > Atlant   -- e John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 18:07:59 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: ImageMagick freeware$* Message-ID: <alio1v$nit$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  Z In article <3d771105$1@news.fhg.de>, Theo Jakobus <Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fraunhofer.de> writes:  J :We are using the freeware package ImageMagick http://www.imagemagick.org & :on our Alpha-OpenVMS workstations ...L :Now I got the message that version 3.4.9 will be the last supported version :for OpenVMS.   ? :I'm asking all users of this software to send an e-mail to ...>  D   I'm not in a position to assist with email unless I can verify theF   address -- sending email in this situation can be tantamount to mail
   bombing.  L :If anybody has time the developers of ImageMagick are glad to get help, see+ :http://www.imagemagick.org/www/help.html .1  H   I've already ported one release, I'll probably end up porting another.I   (Folks here in OpenVMS Engineering use ImageMagick running on OpenVMS.)h    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 19:06:58 GMT8( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: ImageMagick freewareo6 Message-ID: <alirgi$1qmlj3$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  0 In article <3D7CD3A9.31CCD8CD@blueyonder.co.uk>,7 	Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:E > G > For VAX support a copy of ts10 and a hobbyist licence should be fine,>
 > surely?  >   I And just which Graphics Subsystem does ts10 support?? You do realize that0D ImageMagick is an X11 based Image Manipulation package??  Or are youL suggesting that they develop and distribute the package without testing it??   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 19:42:26 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>! Subject: Re: ImageMagick freewarea0 Message-ID: <3D7CF7FF.B34E301D@blueyonder.co.uk>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 2 > In article <3D7CD3A9.31CCD8CD@blueyonder.co.uk>,@ >         Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes: > >tI > > For VAX support a copy of ts10 and a hobbyist licence should be fine,  > > surely?e > >i > K > And just which Graphics Subsystem does ts10 support?? You do realize thatsF > ImageMagick is an X11 based Image Manipulation package??  Or are youN > suggesting that they develop and distribute the package without testing it?? >   H I can't see why you can't use X, I have just downloaded patches directlyI from ftp.compaq.com into my TS10 VMS 7.2 system. Will know more shortly, kK when I get the routing from the VMS box to my Wintel X emulator sorted out.   E Or are you suggesting the authors should qualify the product on everyeG graphics device that has ever been supported by VMS? How will they testeH using a remote alpha system for development without relying on X anyway?  G Anyway, it was just an idea. Obviously not as good as a real VS 4000/90sK with top of the range graphics controller stuffed full of RAM on your desk.rE Or maybe it is, if you've got a fast Pentium. I'm currently using an e old PII 300.  < btw you should see how fast I can backup an RA82 disk image F on linux and ATA100 7200 rpm disk. Certainly a LOT faster than loadingK different VMS versions onto a real VAX if you really wanted to test against-' every version since 5.5-2, or whatever.1   Regards,    3 -- l tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk y  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 19:49:17 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>  Subject: Re: Itanic2 performance* Message-ID: <alitvt$nug$8@web1.cup.hp.com>  D >> In the "FDR" you will see the fileset size as being ~4983 MB. TheF >> system RAM was also shown to be 24GB, which was more than enough to& >> have the entire working-set in RAM,  C > That part I noticed, though without knowing exactly what 'fileset $ > size' meant I couldn't be certain.  5 http://www.spec.org/osg/web99ssl/docs/whitepaper.htmlo2 http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/docs/whitepaper.html  D It will refer to "workload file set" - the FDR uses the term Fileset to refer to the same thing.m  C > Indeed, and I'll take your (implied) word for it that the loggings@ > load of SPECweb99 is at least essentially identical to that of > SPECweb99_SSL.  D These may help reinforce my word :) There should be other stuff like it on http://www.spec.org/  2 http://www.spec.org/osg/web99ssl/pressrelease.html  ? http://www.spec.org/osg/web99ssl/docs/faq.html#kind_of_workloado  C > However, if the two benchmarks are pretty much identical save forrB > the use of SSL, the second set of results above seems to make itF > absolutely clear than the benchmark is dramatically dominated by the > encryption activity: l  E Yes, encryption is a major component of SPECweb99_SSL. It was kind ofpE the whole point of the benchmark - to drive improvements in SSL :) If E encryption were just a minor part of the benchmark, it wouldn't drivelF as much.  Similarly SPECweb96 and SPECweb99 were to drive improvements, in basic web serving and so on and so forth.  B > otherwise, how could a pair of 550 MHz PA8600s running SPECweb99F > significantly out-perform 4 top-end McKinleys running SPECweb99_SSL?C > If so, that also explains why the latter could blitz four 833 MHz D > Alphas in an ES40: the one thing McKinley (and even Merced) really/ > shines at is FP/encryption-style performance.   D Indeed, the Itanium2-based systems do very well on SPECweb99_SSL. ItF would appear that the PA-RISC-based systems also do quite well, and toD a lesser extent (mustn't be toooo kind to the competition though :),D the POWER-4-based systems. Which architectures/solutions do not seem: to do well at all is left as an exercise to the reader :)   C Since that may be construed as a competitive statement I need to atiC least briefly cross i's and dot t's and say: This is from a cursorytF glance of equal number-of-CPU SPECweb99_SSL results published on (at?)5 http://www.spec.org/ as of September 9th, 2002 [1]...f  C And before anyone asks :), no, I have no idea what the latest Alpha D processors would do on SPECweb99_SSL; even if I could hazard a guess@ based on envelope scribbles :) , the SPEC Fair Use requirements:  -  http://www.spec.org/osg/fair_use-policy.htmlx  / would preclude my spouting estimates in public.a  
 rick jones  ? [1] SPEC and SPECweb are trademarks of the Standard Performance." Evaluation Corporation (aka SPEC).   -- tH Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...S   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 21:58:26 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Itanic2 performanceC Message-ID: <6Q8f9.542886$2p2.22192423@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>e  3 "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in messageo$ news:alitvt$nug$8@web1.cup.hp.com...   ...   E > > Indeed, and I'll take your (implied) word for it that the logging B > > load of SPECweb99 is at least essentially identical to that of > > SPECweb99_SSL. >aF > These may help reinforce my word :) There should be other stuff like > it on http://www.spec.org/ >r4 > http://www.spec.org/osg/web99ssl/pressrelease.html >hA > http://www.spec.org/osg/web99ssl/docs/faq.html#kind_of_workloadd >uE > > However, if the two benchmarks are pretty much identical save foroD > > the use of SSL, the second set of results above seems to make itH > > absolutely clear than the benchmark is dramatically dominated by the > > encryption activity: >oG > Yes, encryption is a major component of SPECweb99_SSL. It was kind ofoG > the whole point of the benchmark - to drive improvements in SSL :) IfuG > encryption were just a minor part of the benchmark, it wouldn't driveoH > as much.  Similarly SPECweb96 and SPECweb99 were to drive improvements. > in basic web serving and so on and so forth.  D Another look at a few of the results suggests that adding SSL to theE benchmark decreases throughput by a factor of 5 or more compared withwI vanilla SPECweb99.  Perhaps 'dominated' was an under-statement, if indeed 3 the rest of the benchmark is identical for the two.u   >hD > > otherwise, how could a pair of 550 MHz PA8600s running SPECweb99H > > significantly out-perform 4 top-end McKinleys running SPECweb99_SSL?E > > If so, that also explains why the latter could blitz four 833 MHzeF > > Alphas in an ES40: the one thing McKinley (and even Merced) really1 > > shines at is FP/encryption-style performance.s >lF > Indeed, the Itanium2-based systems do very well on SPECweb99_SSL. ItH > would appear that the PA-RISC-based systems also do quite well, and toF > a lesser extent (mustn't be toooo kind to the competition though :),F > the POWER-4-based systems. Which architectures/solutions do not seem; > to do well at all is left as an exercise to the reader :)i  F While I'd be happy to listen to evidence that the difference is one ofH architecture, my guess is that it may be one primarily of solution.  OneL observation I've made is that the solutions that do well by and large appearL to be a somewhat diverse group save for gobs and gobs of fast, on-chip cacheK (Itanic2 with 3 MB, and PA-RISC and POWER4 with 1.5 MB, XeonMP with 1 MB L3sJ plus 256 KB L2), while those that do poorly appear to be those with littleJ on-chip cache (Alpha with 128 KB, USIII with 100 KB), and given the degreeH to which data is massaged while being encrypted this at least suggests aG non-architectural reason (which of course EV7 would erase, at least forc Alpha).   D Itanic2 may still be a somewhat unknown quantity (though I feel thatJ discussions like this one may open its kimono a bit), but PA-RISC and XeonH are hardly similar in that respect.  Thus when an 875 MHz PA-RISC systemL turns in 2.38 times the performance of an 833 MHz Alpha system with the sameH number of processors, and a 1.6 GHz Xeon system turns in 2.336 times the@ Alpha's performance, one at least begins to detect the odor of a non-architectural rat.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 23:03:07 GMTn& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>  Subject: Re: Itanic2 performance+ Message-ID: <alj9bb$nug$14@web1.cup.hp.com>h  B Some of the big delta between SPECweb99 and SPECweb99_SSL comes noF doubt from actual encryption performance. Another factor would be that? many (perhaps all) of the copy avoidance features developed fornC non-encrypted workloads - eg the "sendfiles" and accelerators - areyF not applicable to SPECweb99_SSL. So, one starts taking cache mises and0 generating bus traffic where one was not before.  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:'E > While I'd be happy to listen to evidence that the difference is one.> > of architecture, my guess is that it may be one primarily ofD > solution.  One observation I've made is that the solutions that do  E You'll have to forgive me - I was being cheeky and not being terribly B precise in my terminology, and a bit too vague elsewhere. I wasn'tE meaning to cast aspersions towards Alpha, but towards something else. A Also, being a software type I forget that when speaking precisely @ "architecture" is stuff like ISA's and the like. To me it is all8 "hardware" for which software has to code workarounds :)  
 rick jones -- nH Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...c   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 17:19:53 -0700n" From: ccc_crg@yahoo.com (Chris G.)Y Subject: Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS  just yawnsa= Message-ID: <5437ff2f.0209091619.7e73a626@posting.google.com>a  l Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3D7CE41C.6716FE9C@blueyonder.co.uk>...Q > VMS base and per user licence costs were cheaper than you might think last timen > I looked.e > 	 > regardsu  B Hmmmm... looking at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/swcat/index.htmlA I see that in order to run an alpha station with CSWS as a securer! webserver would probably cost me:n  ? USD$1750 for TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Client Workgroupp License ? USD$ 377 for OpenVMS VAX and Alpha Operating Systems Concurrento License 1 User   Making it at least $2127 USlD (I assume that CSWS will run on this sort of license? I assume the 1# User applies to interactive logins)o  D It comes down to convincing managers that CSWS is worth the costs of@ licensing VMS & TCP/IP because it is inherently more secure than? Apache on Linux or IIS on NT.  Of course, if HPaq brought out aoE special "CSWS Bundle" (license and cd to install and run CSWS for the F same cost as a Windows NT server license (what? about $600 USD??) then0 that might be a great way to get CSWS out there.   Cheers,l
 Chris Guthrey-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:35:26 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>Y Subject: Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!24 Message-ID: <1020909203031.416A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   On 9 Sep 2002, Chris G. wrote:  n > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3D7CE41C.6716FE9C@blueyonder.co.uk>...S > > VMS base and per user licence costs were cheaper than you might think last timea
 > > I looked.h > >  > > regardsc > D > Hmmmm... looking at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/swcat/index.htmlC > I see that in order to run an alpha station with CSWS as a secure-# > webserver would probably cost me:S > A > USD$1750 for TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Client WorkgroupH	 > LicenseeA > USD$ 377 for OpenVMS VAX and Alpha Operating Systems Concurrent4 > License 1 User >  > Making it at least $2127 UStF > (I assume that CSWS will run on this sort of license? I assume the 1% > User applies to interactive logins)a > F > It comes down to convincing managers that CSWS is worth the costs ofB > licensing VMS & TCP/IP because it is inherently more secure thanA > Apache on Linux or IIS on NT.  Of course, if HPaq brought out aaG > special "CSWS Bundle" (license and cd to install and run CSWS for theeH > same cost as a Windows NT server license (what? about $600 USD??) then2 > that might be a great way to get CSWS out there. > 	 > Cheers,b > Chris Guthrey   ? This pricing structure assumes the Alpha doesn't already have auB TCP/IP license and at least a single-user VMS license.  If you areC buying a new Alpha, it will almost certainly include both of these.a  / What does an NT server license cost these days?h  @ Also, CSWS works just fine on TCPWare, and probably Multinet, so> you don't really need TCP/IP Services.  (Of course TCPWare and Multinet also cost $.)   --   John Santosi Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:50:13 GMTc$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUY Subject: Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!c8 Message-ID: <00A13BCA.F50E06FD@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3D7D646A.AFDBC0F1@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >"Chris G." wrote:G >> It comes down to convincing managers that CSWS is worth the costs ofvC >> licensing VMS & TCP/IP because it is inherently more secure thani  >> Apache on Linux or IIS on NT. > N >Since CSWS is nothing more than a rebadged Apache server compiled on VMS,  IsL >the cost difference   really worth the difference between Apache on VMS and >Apache on Linux ?  L "Nothing more than a rebadged Apache server compiled on VMS."  It's a littleK hard to tell if you mean to be as dismissive of the considerable efforts ofaM the CSWS team in VMS Engineering as you sound.  They've done a lot more work ). just unpacking gzipped sources and typing MMS.   -- Alani   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 18:17:36 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!k0 Message-ID: <3D7CE41C.6716FE9C@blueyonder.co.uk>   >Phillip Helbig wrote: > / > > Transferred with a used machine it is $300.r > G > True, but with a used machine, it probably has a license for a rathers; > old version of VMS.  How much to run the current version?e > I > Mind you, this is an issue for only a small---but important---minority: G > hobbyists pay nothing and for big shops the costs are peanuts.  We DO.0 > need something like a startup license, though!  O VMS base and per user licence costs were cheaper than you might think last timeS	 I looked.g   regardsa -- r tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk -  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 23:18:06 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>iY Subject: Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!d, Message-ID: <3D7D646A.AFDBC0F1@videotron.ca>   "Chris G." wrote:0F > It comes down to convincing managers that CSWS is worth the costs ofB > licensing VMS & TCP/IP because it is inherently more secure than > Apache on Linux or IIS on NT.9  M Since CSWS is nothing more than a rebadged Apache server compiled on VMS,  IstK the cost difference   really worth the difference between Apache on VMS andi Apache on Linux ?   J Personally, I think that VMS should be made very cheap to acquire (licence= costs) and its owner should focus on getting support revenus.a  L For instance, the licence for TCPIP should be included with VMS, but support purchased separately.i  F Just about every low cost servers come with a TCPIP stack. If one mustK purchase it separately for VMS, that is a big show stopper for small shops.i   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 22:55:38 GMTd2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)E Subject: Re: Licenses, MicroVAX 3800 Console (was: Re: Two questions)e* Message-ID: <alj8ta$ss6$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  Z In article <3D7891A9.9000103@beenet.ru>, Konstantin Klubnichkin <kostik@beenet.ru> writes:  H   Please use meaningful titles when posting.  Generic titles are usuallyE   considered to be spam, and generic titles often fail to attract the G   attention of folks that might know the answer to the question.  Using B   topic-appropriate titles can help you increase the chances of an$   expedient answer to your question.   :Two simple questions:K :1. How can I get my uVAX-3800 System ID to get license PAK from  Montagar?g  C   Please ask the nice folks at Montagar to update this to make thisuD   rather more clear -- the question is looking for the system serialC   number off the serial number sticker.  This sticker is usually on E   the back of or the bottom of the VAX or Alpha system enclosure, andh.   is often located near the power connection.   C   VAX systems do not generally have unique software-readable systemeB   serial numbers, and more than a few folks have been "tripped" byD   this and by other related (and mistaken) assumptions, particularly9   when attempting to implement product licensing schemes.f   :and9 :2. Why >>> show dev doesn't show VMS aliases of devices?t  G   Because the console program on a system this old is is itself old, itfK   is memory-constrained, it was platform-generic, and it is correspondinglyaK   "stupid" by current standards.  (When compared to the previous-generation J   console found on the KA630 series, the KA650 console is a huge advance.)I   Hardware and software engineering teams were also operating separately,.I   and with separate requirements -- VAX consoles were historically rather-F   primitive, and variously even ran on completely different operating D   systems and (on various older VAX systems) on separate processors.J   The console and platform engineering teams traditionally have to supportF   several operating systems -- most folks forget that ULTRIX and other-   operating systems also run on VAX hardware.s   	--A  H   The KA650 and KA655 series consoles had at least one function commonlyF   found and commonly used on previous KA630 MicroVAX consoles excised,D   simply to provide room in the ROM for the then-new console commandG   interface.    Extra credit: name this most significant feature of thesH   KA630 console that was removed from the KA650 and KA655 series console
   program.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 16:09:13 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>m) Subject: Re: Looking for a VMS favour....r$ Message-ID: <3d7d005a$1@news.si.com>  B >Well, I tried using Kermit-32 to transfer the savesets from my NT- >machine to VMS, but they got all knacked up t  = What mode did you use to transfer them?  A VMSSHARE is ASCII.r -- tA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comb= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventi< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:17:37 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>) Subject: Re: Looking for a VMS favour....r6 Message-ID: <alivlh$1qbq0n$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   >eC > Well, I tried using Kermit-32 to transfer the savesets from my NTaB > machine to VMS, but they got all knacked up ("Record too big forH > buffer"). VMS to VMS would probably be fine, but sadly I only have the > one VAX :(  J Perhaps the savesets were created on a disk, the recordsize is 32 kB whileI the default for a tapedevice is 8kB. A valid value is between 2 kB and 64i kB.s So you might want to do this:   @ $ backup saveset_big_blocksize.bck small.bck/save/blocksize=2048  ; You end up with a saveset within a savset; perfectly legal.f   Hans   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 23:06:53 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: MANUaL DCLl* Message-ID: <alj9id$ss6$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  _ In article <ee9e24f1.0209060220.2eb70c61@posting.google.com>, ac.atn@sarenet.es (David) writes:r  F :I'm trying to redo a .com file for printing on a plotter and i need a0 :mual of dcl, someone knows where can i find it?  F   Please see the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for pointersF   to the available OpenVMS documentation sites, tutorials, and related   materials.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 23:23:55 GMT$2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: MANUaL DCLw* Message-ID: <aljaib$ss6$4@web1.cup.hp.com>  c In article <3D788419.E759C16C@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:e :Check at :h : % :"http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/"p  D   Please consider a reference to the OpenVMS FAQ or other supporting   resources.    D   Providing the short answer is certainly (often) easy for both the E   questioner and for the responder, but it does not particularly help (   the questioner over the longer-term.    F   There was a closely-related editorial -- on how providing simple andF   direct answers to questions can have adverse effects -- published inF   eWeek within the last couple of months.  The editorial -- correctly,G   in my own experience -- posited that the quick answer does not reallyuD   help the questioner help themselves.  Providing such quick answersI   can (unsurprisingly) be to the detriment of the supporting responder(s)rF   and -- potentially far surprising -- can also be to the detriment of   the questioner(s) themselves.c  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:34:14 -0400u; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>M Subject: RE: MANUaL DCL K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA88@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   $ Terse whats beget terse whats, Hoff?   :^)9   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----; From: "Hoff Hoffman" [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]m( Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 7:23 PM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com"  Subject: RE: MANUaL DCLr    0 In article <3D788419.E759C16C@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:y :Check at :  :d% :"http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/"h  D   Please consider a reference to the OpenVMS FAQ or other supporting   resources.  C   Providing the short answer is certainly (often) easy for both theoE   questioner and for the responder, but it does not particularly helpa&   the questioner over the longer-term.  F   There was a closely-related editorial -- on how providing simple andF   direct answers to questions can have adverse effects -- published inF   eWeek within the last couple of months.  The editorial -- correctly,G   in my own experience -- posited that the quick answer does not really D   help the questioner help themselves.  Providing such quick answersI   can (unsurprisingly) be to the detriment of the supporting responder(s) F   and -- potentially far surprising -- can also be to the detriment of   the questioner(s) themselves.7  0  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------mJ       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com2  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------oL    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 11:44:06 -0700:1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)4A Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!P- Message-ID: <fXa7XOEEGqwR@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>i  1 In article <3D7CD9B9.7159EDA5@blueyonder.co.uk>, e9    Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:o >> rP >> One example is WHOIS , which doesn't come with TCPIP. One must find a copy onQ >> the net, compile, test and verify it doesn't do anything nasty before allowingeK >> its use on the comemrcial system. On other platforms, this utility comese& >> "trusted" as part of the tcp stack. > 8 > JF, my Mandrake 8.2 system doesn;t have whois either, ( > and I thought unix was a standard :-).  >    You should use VMS with Multinet then, it comes with WHOIS.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 14:19:05 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)aA Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!n3 Message-ID: <8b4N0DEfVhUW@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  W In article <unpk5vjo4ev19b@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:h< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:J4AJs6dnsRLl@eisner.encompasserve.org...rC >> In article <uno50k9sunkvbb@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlengan" > <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:+ >> > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:.
 >> > : Mike -  >> >K >> > :>>> And if you check Gateway or Dell, you'll see that you can upgradem5 >> > : from XP Home to XP Pro for less than $100. <<<s >> >J >> > : Ok, I did. Check this out from Dell: (I am assuming Gateway will be >> > : similar)9 >> >E >> > Ok, so prices went up.  When I was looking last was about 9 mos.u0 >> > ago so maybe they were introductory prices. >> >! >> > Ok, so XP pro is about $300.i >> >- >> > How much is VMS with a license?  $5,000?m >>. >> Transferred with a used machine it is $300. > N > That's a bit of a stretch Larry.  You're comparing the cost of a new licenseH > to the cost of transferring a license from one owner to another?  Why?  0 People seem to be discussing minimum entry cost.  D If we want to discuss other possible costs, I am sure it is possible2 to spend 10 million dollars on a large VMScluster.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 19:34:05 GMT , From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)A Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!h6 Message-ID: <alit3d$1qg5v3$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  0 In article <3D7CD9B9.7159EDA5@blueyonder.co.uk>,7 	Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:  > 8 > JF, my Mandrake 8.2 system doesn;t have whois either, ( > and I thought unix was a standard :-). >   @ 1.  Nobody who knew what they were talking about ever said that.   2.  Mandrake isn't Unix.   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   S   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 19:50:44 GMTu4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>A Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!a0 Message-ID: <3D7CF9F0.23B1451C@blueyonder.co.uk>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 2 > In article <3D7CD9B9.7159EDA5@blueyonder.co.uk>,@ >         Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes: > >c9 > > JF, my Mandrake 8.2 system doesn;t have whois either,f* > > and I thought unix was a standard :-). > >r >   % Bill, are you having a bad day today?a  B > 1.  Nobody who knew what they were talking about ever said that.  D If you read the original posting, you will see I was trying to point4 out the flaws in JF's reasoning. Please note smiley.   >  > 2.  Mandrake isn't Unix.  > If you say so. Sadly Solaris Intel does not support the ATA100B controller I have in the PC I am using for messing with stuff like this. I tried that first.e   anyway, have a nice day    >  > bill >     -- n tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 15:38:32 -0700e( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)A Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!d< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0209091438.670105f@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D7B868F.6FF15629@videotron.ca>...  > "Main, Kerry" wrote:G > > Of course, in the "commercial" environment, one must also take into J > > account per server/client WS costs for virus package (including annualK > > renewal costs for latest virus definitions), batch utility for servers,-J > > disk quota utilities (servers), script utility pkg (servers - if logonL > > and maint jobs are relatively large), how much "overhead" is required to9 > > keep servers current with security/virus patches etc.5 >  > L > On the other hand, owners of VMS system may not have to spend so much timeP > fighting viruses, but they have to spend time seeking software, compiling themE > on their own system and fully testing because it came from the net.S > O > One example is WHOIS , which doesn't come with TCPIP. One must find a copy on.P > the net, compile, test and verify it doesn't do anything nasty before allowingJ > its use on the comemrcial system. On other platforms, this utility comes% > "trusted" as part of the tcp stack.r  . funny, I run whois on TCPware all the time ...   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 15:40:48 -0700o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)A Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!u= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0209091440.7a39a749@posting.google.com>-  \ "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message news:<unpk5vjo4ev19b@news.supernews.com>...< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:J4AJs6dnsRLl@eisner.encompasserve.org...kD > > In article <uno50k9sunkvbb@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga# >  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:e, > > > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote: > > > : Mike - >  bL > > > :>>> And if you check Gateway or Dell, you'll see that you can upgrade6 > > > : from XP Home to XP Pro for less than $100. <<< >   K > > > : Ok, I did. Check this out from Dell: (I am assuming Gateway will be  > > > : similar) > > >eF > > > Ok, so prices went up.  When I was looking last was about 9 mos.1 > > > ago so maybe they were introductory prices.h > > >t" > > > Ok, so XP pro is about $300. > > >l. > > > How much is VMS with a license?  $5,000? > >l/ > > Transferred with a used machine it is $300.  > N > That's a bit of a stretch Larry.  You're comparing the cost of a new licenseH > to the cost of transferring a license from one owner to another?  Why? > I > If someone really wants to compare the cost of OpenVMS with the cost of.H > Windows NT/2000/XP then you have to look at the price for Windows 2000N > Datacenter Edition.  I don't know what that price is but I'm sure it's a lot > more than $300.s  D we just spent $5,000 on a windoze 2000 server, where I can buy a newB alphaserver 800 w/license now for under $2000, and it actually has2 security and doesn't need rebooting every hour ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:43:52 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>sA Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!h' Message-ID: <3D7D45AC.DAC7DD2B@fsi.net>t   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
 > > [snip] > > 2.  Mandrake isn't Unix. >  > If you say so.  C Mandrake is a Linux distro. built on Red Hat. They tend to focus onoC Pentium class processors with their binaries; so, us '486 jocks areMG "stuck" with Red Hat (not so bad, really, I just like some of the stuffn, Mandrake is doing with installers and such).   --   David J. Dachtera$ dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:28:46 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>A Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!o0 Message-ID: <3D7D492A.A55C4115@blueyonder.co.uk>   Michael Zarlenga wrote:c > 0 > Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:! > :> Ok, so XP pro is about $300. - > :> How much is VMS with a license?  $5,000?  > / > : Transferred with a used machine it is $300.n >  > Not what I asked ...  7 18 months or so ago I purchased a system where VMS usert; licences were 300 quid per user. System came with VMS base i and EIP licences.y  C I guess the VMS base licence and IP stack cost for old systems and   simulators could be an issue.h   --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk n  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:38:57 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>yA Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!dH Message-ID: <R2cf9.32403$V_5.27912@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D7A3324.373CB428@videotron.ca... > "Main, Kerry" wrote:K > > The MS OS is certainly not "free" on new PC's. You pay for the MS OS aso2 > > part of the PC purchase. It is simply bundled. >eJ > Out of curiosity, when one purchases a new PC from a real company (not aI > garage operation), how much does the windows licence cost the builder ?  >sJ > I realise that the exact price would vary depending on the type of leash the I > builder is willing to have attached to its own neck by microsoft, but Ia woulde0 > expect that they all pay in the same ballpark? >t$ > Are we talking $50 ? $100 ? $150 ?    I As a rough guess, 20-30% of the lowest legitimate price you can find in atF store/on-line for a full version license. Remember that the OEM has to provide 1st level support.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:49:54 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>iA Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!r/ Message-ID: <unqnejk9pebr69@news.supernews.com>   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:8b4N0DEfVhUW@eisner.encompasserve.org...-@ > In article <unpk5vjo4ev19b@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:> > > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message1 > > news:J4AJs6dnsRLl@eisner.encompasserve.org...-E > >> In article <uno50k9sunkvbb@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlengad$ > > <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:- > >> > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:- > >> > : Mike -n > >> >E > >> > :>>> And if you check Gateway or Dell, you'll see that you canS upgrade.7 > >> > : from XP Home to XP Pro for less than $100. <<<d > >> >L > >> > : Ok, I did. Check this out from Dell: (I am assuming Gateway will be > >> > : similar)h > >> >G > >> > Ok, so prices went up.  When I was looking last was about 9 mos. 2 > >> > ago so maybe they were introductory prices. > >> ># > >> > Ok, so XP pro is about $300.i > >> >/ > >> > How much is VMS with a license?  $5,000?d > >>0 > >> Transferred with a used machine it is $300. > > H > > That's a bit of a stretch Larry.  You're comparing the cost of a new licenseaJ > > to the cost of transferring a license from one owner to another?  Why? >r2 > People seem to be discussing minimum entry cost. >f  L That's fine but lets try to compare apples to apples.  It's $300 to transferJ a VMS license from one person to another, it's $0 to transfer a Windows NTH license.  Actually, I'm guessing it's free, I'm not even sure it they're
 transferable.w  L If you really want to look at minimum entry cost, sign up for a free OpenVMS account at:r    http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 04:10:10 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?. Message-ID: <Cgef9.426264$UU1.67680@sccrnsc03>  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagee' news:al869l$4a2@web.eng.baileynm.com...@@ > In article <L2xd9.131360$kp.763782@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,2 > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:D > > > Terry, neither you nor Bill have enough credibility left to be spending itt > > > this profligately. > B > > Shimatta! I have made a mistakle. Your refund is in the mail.. > F > You're sending me some credibility back? Cool... what were you doing mucking H > around with my credibility in the first place? You been flogging otherH > people's credibility? Speculating in hot credibility on the spot marke   Naahh... only with Sun garbage!- > F > I tried grey-market credibility once, but it was badly cut with spin control,3 > so I'll be glad to get the real thing back again.-  G Sport, I hardly know what the heck you are prattling, but the SIG belowo makes it all pretty obvious.  0 Thanks for the laughs. Tough to find these days. >5 > --K > I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over thew roofsgL > of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate. All-F > these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain. `-_-'tF > Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag? 'U`e   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 19:30:49 GMTr From: bit-bucket@maney.org6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance- Message-ID: <alist9$qpe$1@newsread.stdio.com>s  C In comp.unix.solaris JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:a : bit-bucket@maney.org wrote:dH :> Considering that there are far more shots fired in NYC every day thanG :> in Idaho, I think worrying much about that is being overly paranoid.     K : But a shot in NYC doesn't cause a whole heard of angry bisons to stampedeeN : towards your data centre and totally destroy it as they step over it :-) :-) : :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)o  F You'd actually probably be pretty surprised at what it takes to spook  buffalo.   fpsm -- nG | Fredrich P. Maney              my_last_name AT my_last_name DOT org |iG |   Do NOT send me HTML formatted E-mail or copies of netnews posts!  |aG |  Address in header is a spamtrap. Use one in signature for replies. |-G |       Please review http://www.maney.org/uce/ before emailing.      |h   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 19:37:48 GMT- From: bit-bucket@maney.org6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance- Message-ID: <alitac$qpe$2@newsread.stdio.com>M  4 In comp.unix.solaris Dan <bill@microsoft.com> wrote:  ) : <bit-bucket@maney.org> wrote in messagev) : news:aknlqm$gfi$1@newsread.stdio.com...    [...]   G :> To me, being the paranoid nut that I am, this never made sense. OncenF :> we got to the place where highspeed communications (voice and data)E :> are readily available damn near everywhere in the country, why did8D :> we keep packing it all into tight little areas that are atrociousE :> locations on so many levels (environmental impact, cost of living,/7 :> standard of living, physical security, etc.. etc..)?  : <snip>  N : One of the things about WTC and why it had such an impact on the entire cityM : (computerwise) is it was the end of one of the biggest (if not the biggest)lN : trunk lines connecting the island of Manhattan to New Jersey and the rest of : the world.  B Well... there is also the little bit about the buildings that got > knocked down being the equivalent to *all* of the office space% inside the I285 perimeter in Atlanta.m   [...]e  > :> Thousands and thousands of places like this in the country. :>K : And out of country unfortunately.  I know of one company that moved theirlK : development support to Mexico and entire help desk to India.  Lowered thef$ : payroll cost by 90% I would guess.  F Agreed. However I'd be willing to bet this was done more because thoseF countires are actively courting technical businesses to move there. IfJ Smalltown, USA did the same, I think there'd be a lot less "globalization"	 going on.-   fpsm -- lG | Fredrich P. Maney              my_last_name AT my_last_name DOT org |MG |   Do NOT send me HTML formatted E-mail or copies of netnews posts!  |-G |  Address in header is a spamtrap. Use one in signature for replies. |MG |       Please review http://www.maney.org/uce/ before emailing.      |u   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 20:12:36 GMT< From: Lance <nospam@nospam.org>k6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance& Message-ID: <20020909.20123600@Epyon.>  6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  F On 9/9/02, 3:37:48 PM, bit-bucket@maney.org wrote regarding Re: The=20& "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance:  @ > :> Thousands and thousands of places like this in the country. > :>I > : And out of country unfortunately.  I know of one company that moved =    theirhI > : development support to Mexico and entire help desk to India.  Lowere=  d=20 thet& > : payroll cost by 90% I would guess.  I > Agreed. However I'd be willing to bet this was done more because those=l  I > countires are actively courting technical businesses to move there. If=   ? > Smalltown, USA did the same, I think there'd be a lot less=20< "globalization"w > going on.o  G Some companies have moved software development to India and that has=20nI caused more problems.  The software had more bugs and incompatibilities =g  B then when it was developed here.  It has nothing to do with the=20I competency of the other country, but more in the translation.  You have =o  I someone speaking English and saying what they want and have the entire=20 I road map in English as well.  Then all that has to be translated to the =a  3 other language, somethings get lost in the process.o  I So payroll is reduced, but other expenses can actually go up. As well as=r =20w0 the development time need to complete a project.   Lanceo   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 11:59:48 -0700 2 From: radio_four_listener@yahoo.co.uk (reg-reader)0 Subject: Re: the sky is falling says Nominum Inc= Message-ID: <b2cff4d3.0209091059.2295d09e@posting.google.com>e  : excuse me! the spell checker on this machine doesn't work!  > This is another puff PIECE masquerading as a technical report.' This one trashes both Solaris and Unix.w+ Notice how VMS doesn't even rate a mention.s4 VMS is obviously not even considered a threat by m$.   ......  * ".... the Stratus servers can maintain the7 state of the application in the case of a system crash,(5 a capability Kramer said is not available in the Unixa	 space..."   A "... This positions Microsoft business-critical applications in ad	 level fart. superior to a Solaris or Unix environment. .."   Comments anyone ?l   ........I http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/breakingnews.asp?ArticleID=37324h  8 Stratus To Unveil Fault-Tolerant Four-Way Wintel Servers   By Joseph F. Kovar, CRNe Maynard, Mass.  5:58 PM EST Fri., Sept. 06, 2002  . Stratus Technologies on Monday plans to unveil7 new versions of its fault-tolerant Wintel-based serversc. aimed directly at the enterprise Unix market.   3 One of the models, the ftServer 6500, is a four-waye- server for enterprise-class Microsoft Windows.2 Advanced Server computing environments. It can can> be configured with one, two or four Intel Xeon MP processors.   5 The other model, the ftServer 5240, comes with one ora3 two 2.4GHz Intel Xeon processors. Both offer 99.9993( percent uptime, company officials said.   4 The real winner with these new servers is Microsoft,/ as it brings its software into enterprise-classb1 environments, said Ron Kramer, vice president and 1 COO of All Computer Solutions, a Portland, Maine-h- based solution provider that has seen the newl	 servers. a  7 For low-cost fault-tolerant servers, solution providerse. have been limited to two-way Pentium 4 models,3 Kramer said. However, with the new Stratus servers,i- they can now offer up to four-way models withe9 multithreading and the ability to integrate directly with.! Microsoft applications, he said. r  4 While other solutions provide failover and fail-back2 capabilities, the Stratus servers can maintain the7 state of the application in the case of a system crash, 5 a capability Kramer said is not available in the Unixl@ space. For example, if 100 users are connected to an application server running a@ Microsoft application and someone is entering a keystroke when a problem occurs,uC the Stratus server makes sure the user is masked from the problem. s  > "That's huge. . . . This positions Microsoft business-critical applications in a level far.D superior to a Solaris or Unix environment," he said. "Where there is
 transactional:B centricity,that is, applications in banking, financial, emergency, health and medical@ areas, where failure is not an option, Stratus can deliver fault tolerance. There is no" need to modify the applications."   B About 60 percent to 70 percent of Stratus' business comes from the
 channel, saidl@ David Fleck, director of North American channels for the vendor. Stratus currently B has about 150 solution providers worldwide and is looking for more partners in the,E retail banking, call center, public safety and manufacturing markets,r he said.  D Both servers are currently available. The list price of the ftServer 6500 starts atE $65,000, which includes one processor and a factory-installed copy ofw WindowsnC 2000 Advanced Server. The price of the ftServer 5240 with a similart
 configurationd starts at $49,500. s  B The availability of the ft5240 means Stratus will stop selling its 800MHz Xeon-basedc9 ft5200 as soon as current stock is depleted, Fleck said. n  C NEC, which sells OEM versions of Stratus' fault-tolerant servers in  the United States:F and abroad, is already selling the ft6500 in Japan, said Fleck. He did not know ifg2 NEC would bring either model into the U.S. market.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 19:00:26 GMT<2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: VMS - where to startK* Message-ID: <alir4a$nit$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  d In article <ad629aab.0209050229.62d69faf@posting.google.com>, siross@talk21.com (Simon Ross) writes:  E :   I looking for either an online guide top VMS or any good books on 3 :the subject any help would be greatly appreciated.b  N  Please search for "tutorial" in the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:52:34 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on, Message-ID: <3D7D5E71.D847651C@videotron.ca>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:e >  > Hello, > 1 > I did forget an office package like StarOffice.S  F I am not sure you'd really need that. Get Wordperfect to make a betterN commitment to VMS, spruce up VMSmail to handle attachements, fixup CALENDAR toN have "server like" functions (like checking if you can schedule something with your boss next week).y   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:43:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.J Subject: Re: Who are the largest VMS customers. Top ten? (Was: VMS and HP)+ Message-ID: <3D7D5C69.568CB0F@videotron.ca>i   "Main, Kerry" wrote:B > In addition to Roberts pointer, some additional public pointers:    K It would do a lot of good to VMS if Carly were to start talking about those E pointers and how serous corporations use VMS for their critical apps.e  N Carly had no problems talking about Tandem and stock exchanges, why should she; have a problem talking about VMS and banks, exchanges etc ?h   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2002 19:52:19 GMTa2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)I Subject: Re: XFC V2.0 and VDDRIVER (was: RE: XFC v2 ECO, negative report)r* Message-ID: <aliu5j$nit$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  F In article <3D775C5B.2080300@gce.com>, G Everhart <ge@gce.com> writes:    L :...I sent vdd64 with updates to Hunter Goatley who had them on at least oneM :of his servers yesterday morning and probably has it on all of them today...5L :(see http://www.process.com/fileserv-software-updates.html for pointers)...    I   I'll get the Freeware website updated within a week or so of my finding H   the corrected distro of VDD64; the above-mentioned URL has gone `404'.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Sep 2002 03:09:14 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>E Subject: Re: YEA!  I have a working Dec 3000 300 alpha, RISC and IDE?m, Message-ID: <aljnoq01a83@enews3.newsguy.com>  3 Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:2M > AFAIK, there is not.  Turbochannel was "retired" before IDE became popular.t  I Well...  IDE was fairly popular when Turbochannel was around, just not inr that market segment :^)   J > Several folks here have recently reported success with an adapter widgetL > that connects and IDE drive to SCSI.  That, with the right cable and maybe= > a terminator, might let you use IDE drives on the DEC 3000.w  L Um, all things considered, such as the fact a DEC 3000/300 only has a NarrowJ SCSI interface, the value of a DEC 3000/300, and how cheap you can get oldK Narrow SCSI drives, I'm left wondering if one of those converters is reallya	 worth it.p  K The other issue, is that from what I've heard you probably can't use a pairuI of the converters with Volume Shadowing.  Of course since I don't seem tonI shadow the 4GB Storageworks disks I'm using (and I easily could), I don't A know why this has stopped me from getting one for my PWS433au :^/p   			Zane:   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.499 ************************