1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 11 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 501       Contents: Re: "inview" Article) Re: AlphaServer 1200 VMS Disk recognition 1 Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy 1 Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy 1 Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy 1 Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy 1 Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy  Re: auto-negotiate Re: auto-negotiate1 Automated landings, was: Re: Convert Blocks to MB 5 Re: Automated landings, was: Re: Convert Blocks to MB  Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MBA Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group  Re: definition of SYS$SYSROOT + Details on the technical program for HP-ETS 5 Re: disk sizes on VMS (was: RE: Convert Blocks to MB) 5 Re: disk sizes on VMS (was: RE: Convert Blocks to MB) 5 Re: disk sizes on VMS (was: RE: Convert Blocks to MB) 1 Re: Encompass - how long before I get a response? 3 Fabio Cardoso Enemy of the United States of America 7 Re: Fabio Cardoso Enemy of the United States of America ; Re: H-P's Bruce Perens Fired For Being Too Anti-Microsoft ? . Re: Hobbyist vs Startup Business and Licensing. Re: Hobbyist vs Startup Business and Licensing IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT@ Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"@ Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"@ Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"P Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!< Re: Licenses, MicroVAX 3800 Console (was: Re: Two questions) Marvel preview days 8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!! NY/NYC meeting - Local User Group  OT: HP PDA rankings  Re: Pathworks..   Re: Post answers in forum people1 Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast! A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on K Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on  OpenVMS? J Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS?P Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenV Xwindows help for DCL ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:50:54 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> Subject: Re: "inview" Article + Message-ID: <3D7E3F0E.3070407@mail.tele.dk>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  , >                there are no rack optimised/ > 1 or 2U systems typically used in web serving     ' Never heard of the DS10L and DS20L ????    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:54:49 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> 2 Subject: Re: AlphaServer 1200 VMS Disk recognition( Message-ID: <3D7E9459.4030607@rdrop.com>   Richard Brodie wrote: 1 > "Brandon" <zonle1@hotmail.com> wrote in message 9 > news:c37e04b6.0209100559.164672f9@posting.google.com...  > F >>I am working on a AlphaServer 1200 running OpenVMS 7.3.  There are 7D >>slots for disk drives.  Compaq recomends that the last slot not be >>used.   " Huh?  Why?  I'm using all of mine.  A > Whoa, stop right there. You have a RAID controller in there and ? > the logical disks are one-to-one mapped with physical volumes  > JBOD style? Are you sure?    He didn't say that... did he?   ? > I'm assuming you have the PCI raid controller - I used to run ( > one on that model and they are a PITA.  * Really? I've not experienced any problems.  4 > More detail on the configuration would be helpful.  D That's for sure- what's the controller, is the bus on that internal > shelf split, (You are talking about the internal shelf, yeah?)   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2002 13:54:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) : Subject: Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy3 Message-ID: <f5l6Dh1427ku@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <3D7E2293.7010407@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes: > Dale Coy wrote:  > F >> I would like the privilege of running for election to the EncompassG >> Board of Directors. I submitted an application for consideration for * >> nomination, but I was not asked to run. >>  I >> Therefore, I am soliciting petitions from members in good standing, to C >> be permitted to run as a candidate. To be allowed to run, I need I >> petitions numbering 15% of those members voting in the 2001 election - # >> I request and value your action.  >  >  > ???? >  > What ? > : > Are you saying the someone decides who is allowed to run@ > for the board and the rest has to get the equivalent to 1/6'th& > of votes just to be allowed to run ?  @ Actually of those who voted last year.  I suspect there are manyE fewer eligible to vote this year, so as far as I know the requirement  is not attainable.  ? > PS: I am not a "DECUS" US member, so you can not use my vote.   9 I was a DECUS US member but I am not an Encompass member. 9 I am not likely to join just for the purpose of signing a 7 nominating petition, but if Dale gets onto the ballot I 6 would have to revisit that situation, since voting for him is an attractive option.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2002 19:24:33 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) : Subject: Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy- Message-ID: <6jExEOOJaWnS@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   + In article <alla18$2s1$1@pith.uoregon.edu>, 7      "Dale Coy" <dalecoy@obfuscation.spinn.net> writes:   > > Those not slated by that process may try to petition for the= > privilege of being a candidate.  It takes 15% of the number B > who voted in the last election.  In this case, since 286 members? > voted last year, 43 petition signatures are required to allow  > me to run this year. > 8    I'd send one in, but I'm only an associate member and! we're not allowed to vote. Sorry.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:20:51 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>: Subject: Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy, Message-ID: <3D7E8C63.7010209@tsoft-inc.com>   Arne Vajhj wrote:   > Dale Coy wrote:  > F >> I would like the privilege of running for election to the EncompassG >> Board of Directors. I submitted an application for consideration for * >> nomination, but I was not asked to run. >>I >> Therefore, I am soliciting petitions from members in good standing, to C >> be permitted to run as a candidate. To be allowed to run, I need I >> petitions numbering 15% of those members voting in the 2001 election - # >> I request and value your action.  >  >  >  > ???? >  > What ? > : > Are you saying the someone decides who is allowed to run@ > for the board and the rest has to get the equivalent to 1/6'th& > of votes just to be allowed to run ? > 8 > If that is the case, then it seems as a rather strange >  > flavour of democracy to me ! >  > Arne > ? > PS: I am not a "DECUS" US member, so you can not use my vote.  >     P What!  Never heard of the 'old boy' network?  How do you think that the current O 'rulers' of DECUS manage to steer things in the direction that they wish?  I'm  6 rather sure that the members are NOT well represented.  J As for me, I'm not that big of a glutton for punishment.  However, I will 8 support VMS bigots, should they wish to buck the system.  Q Dave, who might have a list of directors that are definitely NOT friends of VMS,  ) and isn't allowed to share the list.  :-(    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:35:00 -0600 0 From: "Dale Coy" <dalecoy@obfuscation.spinn.net>: Subject: Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy/ Message-ID: <untaum391fh8e6@corp.supernews.com>   5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:3D7E8C63.7010209@tsoft-inc.com... > K > As for me, I'm not that big of a glutton for punishment.  However, I will : > support VMS bigots, should they wish to buck the system. > J > Dave, who might have a list of directors that are definitely NOT friends of VMS, + > and isn't allowed to share the list.  :-(  >   D I try very hard to not be a BIGOT, and to appreciate the benefits ofJ diversity.  On the other hand, I started using VMS in 1982, and still love using it every day.    VMS and I are mutual friends.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2002 22:13:39 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) : Subject: Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy3 Message-ID: <D5WjzJH5CHB8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <untaum391fh8e6@corp.supernews.com>, "Dale Coy" <dalecoy@obfuscation.spinn.net> writes: > 7 > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message ( > news:3D7E8C63.7010209@tsoft-inc.com... >>L >> As for me, I'm not that big of a glutton for punishment.  However, I will; >> support VMS bigots, should they wish to buck the system.  >>K >> Dave, who might have a list of directors that are definitely NOT friends 	 > of VMS, , >> and isn't allowed to share the list.  :-( >> > F > I try very hard to not be a BIGOT, and to appreciate the benefits ofL > diversity.  On the other hand, I started using VMS in 1982, and still love > using it every day.   C 	I appreciate diversity too.  I access VMS systems from Windoze 98, ( 	DecWindows , Windows 95 and Windoze XP.   >  > VMS and I are mutual friends.  >   @ 	You woulda thunk after all this time you would have progressed.6 	You must be stuck in the "Let's be friends loop." (1)  H (1)  Graph of relationships whiteboarded and then copied to a paper long= 	since lost.  Late night study session at Widener University, 
 	 circa 1989.    				Rob   B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonder G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstream > The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  -                                 -- Neil Young    ------------------------------   Date: 10 SEP 2002 21:21:45 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>  Subject: Re: auto-negotiate 2 Message-ID: <10SEP02.21214597@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  D In a previous article, "Hamid Bourchi" <hbourchi@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hello, >   4 > How can i make sure that my network cart is set on8 > auto-negotiate? Without rebooting my system of course. > I couldn't find it in LANCP.   LANCP> SHOW DEV EWA0 /CHAR  C should do that for you (substitute your device name for the EWA0 of * course).  You can change the settings with  4 LANCP> SET DEV EWA0 /[no]FULL_DUPLEX /SPEED={10|100}  B I don't see a way to use LANCP to set the device to auto-negotiate  D That said, imho auto-negotiation is not the way to go.  I've had theF adapter negotiate one value (100) and VMS negotiate another (10).  I'dG just set it via the system console (as suggested by another poster) and E forget it.  (Don't forget to set your switch to the preferred setting  also.)   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:40:17 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>  Subject: Re: auto-negotiate 2 Message-ID: <Jzx+PYXcUzPRDwDRUvCpgmUVSQFQ@4ax.com>  2 It's set in firmware within the console subsystem.1 If the device is ewa0, then it would be something 
 like this:    >>> set ewa0_mode auto-negotiate  0 You will, of course, have to shutdown to set it.   David R. Beatty   3 On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:47:46 +0200, "Hamid Bourchi"  <hbourchi@hotmail.com> wrote:    >Hello,  > 3 >How can i make sure that my network cart is set on 7 >auto-negotiate? Without rebooting my system of course.  >I couldn't find it in LANCP.  > 	 >Regards,  >Hamid Bourchi >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:52:53 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>: Subject: Automated landings, was: Re: Convert Blocks to MB, Message-ID: <3D7E85D5.1030305@tsoft-inc.com>  9 > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]    N > Some commercial aircraft are capable of being flown to a landing entirely onH > automation (or so I am told, I've been out of aviation since the earlyM > 90's). Given that, if a plane leaves New York for Honolulu and the inertial G > guidance system commits an aggregate error of 3% en route, instead of J > landing in Honolulu, I should think that one would need to remember that< > one's seat cushion can also be used as a flotation device.    N You're assuming (Ha! Not me this time!) that only INS is used for navagation. N Add GPS and the error is reduced significantly.  Add additional landing aids, Q and yes, the aircraft will approach and flare quite well.  My understanding that  ) the roll-out and braking is still manual.    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:39:05 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> > Subject: Re: Automated landings, was: Re: Convert Blocks to MB, Message-ID: <3D7E9EB4.F9A7AA8D@videotron.ca>   David Froble wrote: R > and yes, the aircraft will approach and flare quite well.  My understanding that+ > the roll-out and braking is still manual.   M CAT III modern aircraft will come to a full stop automatically. (well, it has ) to be requested/programmed by the pilot).   K Some say that it is more complicated to program it than to execute it so it  isn't done very often.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:09:51 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB ' Message-ID: <3D7E3AD0.24793FE2@fsi.net>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > ] > In article <3D7E1FDC.A458E892@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: # > > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > >>` > >> In article <3D7D4ADD.45E7B55D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:F > >> > "Approximation" in this case means "error". The difference *IS* > >> > significant!  > >>- > >> No.  That statement is false in general.  > > J > > Specify. (Hint: Review the other recent messages in this thread before > > responding.) > C > I looked.  The context indicates that I haven't missed the point.  >  > I have three files.  >  > File A: 2000 blocks  > File B: 2048 blocks  > File C: 1953 blocks  > 3 > I have three formulas for file size in megabytes:  >  > A: diskblocks/2000 > B: diskblocks/2048 > C: diskblocks*512/1,000,000  > D > I read your position in this thread as having two distinct claims: > > > 1.  Only file B is one megabyte.  In the field of computers,+ >     only binary megabytes are acceptable.  > F > 2.  Only formula B is correct.  The other formulas are erroneous andA >     the margin of error is always significant regardless of thec> >     context in which the formulas are used and regardless of9 >     whether the result is labelled as an approximation.d > [snip]B >     If you want better than 2 sig fig accuracy then you'd betterD >     figure out which megabyte you're talking about before deciding- >     which of the other two formulas to use.g  H Unless you can arrange to change the nature of the computing machines in? question, I'd have to assert that you have concluded correctly.o   -- l David J. Dachterav dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2002 00:25 CDTn' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)u! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MBE- Message-ID: <11SEP200200250031@gerg.tamu.edu>   5 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...   }briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: }>  ^ }> In article <3D7D4ADD.45E7B55D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:D }> > "Approximation" in this case means "error". The difference *IS* }> > significant!l }> s+ }> No.  That statement is false in general.  } A }Some commercial aircraft are capable of being flown to a landingzI }entirely on automation (or so I am told, I've been out of aviation since I }the early 90's). Given that, if a plane leaves New York for Honolulu andBH }the inertial guidance system commits an aggregate error of 3% en route,F }instead of landing in Honolulu, I should think that one would need toI }remember that one's seat cushion can also be used as a flotation device.s }  }--  }David J. Dachtera  G Any person who is not a moron knows that flying aircraft and estimatingM= the size of something on a disk drive are not the same thing.T  F Reread the subject line. What do aircraft have to to with this thread?   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:44:22 GMTI* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems GroupC Message-ID: <a4rf9.440688$Aw4.18446549@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>R  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messageS) news:uns8p2huc59248@corp.supernews.com...s > JF Mezei wrote:l > > Greg Cagle wrote:V > >sH > >>The issues were not that simple. Perens had made things a little hot@ > >>for himself in a number of areas, not just by being anti-MS. > >a > > J > > But HP has just lost a certain amount of credibility in whatever Linux efforts H > > it has had so far and will have in the short term. What the New York Times G > > says is far more important for HP's corporate image than what trulya happened > > behind closed doors. >hG > Oh, I agree. The spin in the article is quite different than reality,eG > based on the conversations I have had with Bruce and Martin Fink (hislD > manager) over the course of his HP career. Maybe that's the way itA > feels to Bruce now, but there was a lot more going on than justb
 > MS bigotry.t  I Be that as it may, you've yet said nothing to dispute the appearance that/L Bruce was hired with the *explicitly specified* mandate to speak his mind asK a Linux advocate, and was then fired for doing so.  About the best face oneyL can put on that is that HP didn't have a clue what it was asking for when itK hired him; a somewhat more cynical one would be that they thought that theylH could mould him into something more to their liking while preserving his7 image of independence, and bailed out when that failed.d   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:45:49 GMT-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems GroupC Message-ID: <NZrf9.442131$Aw4.18485470@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>w  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D7E477D.A195103A@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:K > > a Linux advocate, and was then fired for doing so.  About the best face  oneeH > > can put on that is that HP didn't have a clue what it was asking for when it J > > hired him; a somewhat more cynical one would be that they thought that theyL > > could mould him into something more to their liking while preserving his; > > image of independence, and bailed out when that failed.o >iL > I would lend more credence to the change of management being a major cause for  > his dismissal. >o2 > Was he originally hired before Carly's arrival ?   No.l   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 12:44:52 -0700h& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group/ Message-ID: <unsitc75sl2316@corp.supernews.com>    Bill Todd wrote:  K > Be that as it may, you've yet said nothing to dispute the appearance thatdN > Bruce was hired with the *explicitly specified* mandate to speak his mind as4 > a Linux advocate, and was then fired for doing so.  F I can't dispute *the appearance* - after all, it's in the NYT 8^). AllE I'm saying is that I don't think *the reality* is as simple as peopleu' would like to believe. Including Bruce.-   > About the best face one N > can put on that is that HP didn't have a clue what it was asking for when itM > hired him; a somewhat more cynical one would be that they thought that theykJ > could mould him into something more to their liking while preserving his9 > image of independence, and bailed out when that failed.w  J I think Bruce was naive about big company politics. Many times I heard himN say that his "deal" with HP was that he could say whatever he wanted in publicH as long as he prefaced his opinions with a disclaimer that they WERE hisI opinions and that he wasn't speaking for HP but rather for Bruce. I thinkbF he was naive to believe that would actually work in the environment inG which he was operating, and also naive to believe that he wouldn't makeII himself a target internally by taking controversial positions on a numberoF of things - baiting MS being one of them and probably the most visible1 at this point. And certainly the most newsworthy.v -- j
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 12:53:28 -0700o& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group/ Message-ID: <unsjdfmhhbrce4@corp.supernews.com>    JF Mezei wrote:o  P > I would lend more credence to the change of management being a major cause for > his dismissal.   > P > Was he originally hired before Carly's arrival ? Imagine the scenario where heM > is hired before Carly's arrival. The monite Carly takes power, his previous2N > "mandate" is nulled and voided, but his presence is tolerated. Then comes inU > the bunch of Compaq wintel weenies who don't tolerate him and he is shown the door.l  P No - he was hired after Carly. But before the merger. Post merger his management chain looked like:   Carlys Peter Blackmore  Stallard Martin Fink (head of Linux org)f Bruce   I Don't forget Carly gave a strong keynote at LinuxWorld in January of thisnH year. I don't believe she is a Linux basher. Stallard and Fink have been) in place throughout Bruce's tenure at HP.    -- t
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:10:43 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems GroupC Message-ID: <7lsf9.442653$Aw4.18499022@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>D  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message:) news:unsitc75sl2316@corp.supernews.com...  > Bill Todd wrote:   ...r   > > About the best face oneBH > > can put on that is that HP didn't have a clue what it was asking for when it,J > > hired him; a somewhat more cynical one would be that they thought that theyL > > could mould him into something more to their liking while preserving his; > > image of independence, and bailed out when that failed.r >oL > I think Bruce was naive about big company politics. Many times I heard himI > say that his "deal" with HP was that he could say whatever he wanted ino publicJ > as long as he prefaced his opinions with a disclaimer that they WERE hisK > opinions and that he wasn't speaking for HP but rather for Bruce. I think H > he was naive to believe that would actually work in the environment inI > which he was operating, and also naive to believe that he wouldn't make K > himself a target internally by taking controversial positions on a numberrH > of things - baiting MS being one of them and probably the most visible > at this point.  J It sounds as if you are simply saying that Bruce was naive to believe HP'sA commitments when it hired him.  While I agree that believing HP'suK 'commitments' in any area would indeed be naive, it's not at all clear thattJ Bruce actually did so:  instead, he appears just to have *acted* upon themF as if they were real (thus both giving HP the benefit of the doubt andB retaining the independence he made a condition of his employment),I cheerfully accepted his dismissal when HP, fairly predictably, reneged on37 those commitments, and blown the whistle appropriately.f   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:28:21 -0400,- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group+ Message-ID: <3D7E55D2.AEFA8DA@videotron.ca>o   Greg Cagle wrote:yM > > Be that as it may, you've yet said nothing to dispute the appearance thatrP > > Bruce was hired with the *explicitly specified* mandate to speak his mind as6 > > a Linux advocate, and was then fired for doing so.  H I think he should be hired by IBM and then let loose to steal as many HP> customers as possible.  Hopefully HP will regret its decision.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:27:08 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>iJ Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group, Message-ID: <3D7E477D.A195103A@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > a Linux advocate, and was then fired for doing so.  About the best face onenN > can put on that is that HP didn't have a clue what it was asking for when itM > hired him; a somewhat more cynical one would be that they thought that they>J > could mould him into something more to their liking while preserving his9 > image of independence, and bailed out when that failed.>  N I would lend more credence to the change of management being a major cause for his dismissal. o  N Was he originally hired before Carly's arrival ? Imagine the scenario where heK is hired before Carly's arrival. The monite Carly takes power, his previousdL "mandate" is nulled and voided, but his presence is tolerated. Then comes inS the bunch of Compaq wintel weenies who don't tolerate him and he is shown the door.k   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:45:35 -0700a& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group/ Message-ID: <unstg65gcnrr90@corp.supernews.com>    JF Mezei wrote:n > Greg Cagle wrote:h > L >>>Be that as it may, you've yet said nothing to dispute the appearance thatO >>>Bruce was hired with the *explicitly specified* mandate to speak his mind asv5 >>>a Linux advocate, and was then fired for doing so.  >> > J > I think he should be hired by IBM and then let loose to steal as many HP@ > customers as possible.  Hopefully HP will regret its decision.   Umm, Bill said that - I didn't.    -- 2
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:57:27 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group, Message-ID: <3D7E86E7.2090705@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:u   > Bill Todd wrote: > M >>a Linux advocate, and was then fired for doing so.  About the best face oneiN >>can put on that is that HP didn't have a clue what it was asking for when itM >>hired him; a somewhat more cynical one would be that they thought that theyaJ >>could mould him into something more to their liking while preserving his9 >>image of independence, and bailed out when that failed.y >> > P > I would lend more credence to the change of management being a major cause for > his dismissal. r > P > Was he originally hired before Carly's arrival ? Imagine the scenario where heM > is hired before Carly's arrival. The monite Carly takes power, his previousaN > "mandate" is nulled and voided, but his presence is tolerated. Then comes inU > the bunch of Compaq wintel weenies who don't tolerate him and he is shown the door.o >   @ I can believe the compaq windoz weenies.  Can you say 'Winkler'?   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2002 12:55:41 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)& Subject: Re: definition of SYS$SYSROOT= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209101155.54a2ca78@posting.google.com>p  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KM55CPIOZG9QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...G > At various times, there have been discussions about (system) logical IE > names which are search lists, in particular why SYS$SYSROOT is NOT -D > defined as SYS$SPECIFIC,SYS$COMMON, but rather as <translation of  > SYS$SPECIFIC>,SYS$COMMON.f >n0 > A google search turns up WAY too many threads.    F Search for SYS$SYSROOT SYS$SPECIFIC and you'll find these two relevant threads on pages 1 and 3:s  ? "Does DEC trust concealed devices?" and "RE: SYS$SYSROOT poser"e  E To sum it up, the answer at first glance appears to be the ability toe" use a sequence like the following:  - $ UAF = f$parse ("SYSUAF", "SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT")o $ OPEN UAF 'UAF'  D This would fail if SYS$SYSROOT = SYS$SPECIFIC,SYS$COMMON with SYSUAFC present only in SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]. So this seems to be a trick toe  get F$PARSE to work "correctly".  E Of course no one mentioned why this is not a problem when you try theN@ same trick with a file located only in the SYS$MANAGER "part" of SYS$STARTUP!  = And this still doesn't explain why it can't be something like,   $ SLF AEF$SYSROOTp6    "AEF$SYSROOT" [super] = "SYS$SPECIFIC:" [concealed] (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)g         = "SYS$COMMON:"e> 1  "SYS$SPECIFIC" [exec] = "DSA0:[SYS0.]" [concealed,terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)F 1  "SYS$COMMON" [exec] = "DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.]" [concealed,terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  > which would still yield the confusing SYS$SYSROOT in DIRECTORYD displays but the F$PARSE usage shown above wouldn't be a problem and: at least you'd see SYS$SPECIFIC when running SHOW LOGICAL.  @ Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that SYS$SYSROOT isF defined very early in the boot process, before DCL is available to run@ STARTUP.COM. Maybe iterative translation isn't available at thatF point, but then one could re-DEFINE it later. Anyway, still a bit of a mystery.    J > I think Alan Feldman(?) recently posted a summary of this, but I didn't + > find it with a search (admittedly quick).s    B Yes, I did, but only to try to explain how SYS$SYSROOT and friends  work and why they are confusing.    K > Can someone point me to a concise summary which has no wrong information c > and includes historical info?>    
 *I* can't.    I > On a (perhaps) related note: since the logicals which use specific and  F > common stuff are defined as search lists anyway, why not just leave @ > VMS$COMMON in the search list, i.e. why have the [.SYSCOMMON] I > subdirectory be a link to the VMS$COMMON directory?  Does this perhaps tI > go back to a time when SET FILE/ENTER existed but search lists did not?     E Well, John Briggs commented on this to which I would add that it also0B allows the possibility of multiple common roots on the same systemE disk. You could use SET FILE/ENTER to enter different common roots as09 SYSCOMMON.DIR's in different [SYS%]'s. I vaguely remember E mixed-architecture disks would have a VAX common and a separate ALPHA A common, but upon looking for such references I mostly found posts E about why that's a bad idea (to have mixed-architecture disks, i.e.).    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmann   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:01:41 -0400cK From: "Encompass - HP Enterprise Technology Symposium" <KilleenJ@toast.net>e4 Subject: Details on the technical program for HP-ETS/ Message-ID: <unsgde4pb4if04@corp.supernews.com>a  I You still have time to register for the HP Enterprise Technical SymposiumfG and Encompass Technical Exchange trade show, October 6-11 in St. Louis,u	 Missouri.e  E In order to assist you in sorting through the 400+ in-depth technical K sessions this year we have produced a series of new guides to the SymposiumJG content. They outline the program content based on areas of interest orP4 unique sessions of interest within the program. ViewL http://www.hpets2002.com/portal/content/highlights.jsp to quickly review the- 400+ unique conference offerings by category:M  9     Daily Schedule (Symposium and Pre-symposium educationJ     Schedules-at-a-Glance)5     Technology (Mini-Program Guides and Topic Guides)>     Type of Educational Content5  L Mini-Program Guides for operating environments and Topic Guides for specificG technologies (Tru64, OpenVMS, ProLiant, etc.) are accessible within thelL "Sessions by Technology" section. These guides offer a comprehensive listing$ of associated educational offerings.  H Session Guides for broad categories of educational offerings from ExpertH Discussions to Case Studies are accessible within the "Sessions by Type" searchK capabilities. These guides enable you to review the schedules for the types  of training you prefer most.  J Register today for the HP Enterprise Technical Symposium and pre-symposiumB education. For fast and easy registration for either or both visit* http://www.hpets2002.com/portal/login.jsp.  + For Pre-Conference information please visito9 http://www.encompassUS.org/events/preconregistration.htmlt  ) We look forward to meeting you St. Louis.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:14:22 GMTu1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l> Subject: Re: disk sizes on VMS (was: RE: Convert Blocks to MB)' Message-ID: <3D7E3BE2.A2926AB0@fsi.net>-   Bob Koehler wrote: > y > In article <01KMCFR5DCGW9QVJI2@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:eD > >> Did y'ever notice that "9GB" drives like RZ40, etc. really onlyA > >> INITIALIZE to about 8.47GBF on VMS? (That's a 6% deviation.)  > > K > > This might be a different thing, though: I have a couple of Seagate 9GB K > > drives which show up as less under VMS, but at the nominal size (so I'm E > > told) on other operating systems.  (Work fine otherwise, though.)k > E >    I've got three sizes of "1GB" drives on my hobby system at home, 0 >    according to f$getdvi("drive","maxblock") .  6 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$getdvi( "drive", "maxblock" )- %SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device availablev  \drive\   Really?M    DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say 2048*1024 2097152o   Where are the other two?   -- a David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:58:19 +1200  From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: Re: disk sizes on VMS (was: RE: Convert Blocks to MB)3 Message-ID: <Nqxf9.5251$Y3.1061251@news.xtra.co.nz>a  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D7E2C90.C69FD79C@fsi.net...u  I > Use the DIR (DOS, Win, CMD) command or something that actually displayssJ > the free byte count, divide it by powers of two and see what you come up* > as the GBF as viewed by non-VMS o.s.-es.  @ Not quite so fast I'm afraid. The free byte count is pretty much@ meaningless if you can't allocate those bytes individually. What7 it shows is rather a measure of a wasted space (maybe).0  ; Remember, even the good old RSX used to show the file sizesi9 in two numbers like XX/YY where the XX stood for the usedr; blocks and YY for the allocated ones. Even then, the "used"h# above is rather conditional too ...t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:09:22 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o> Subject: Re: disk sizes on VMS (was: RE: Convert Blocks to MB)' Message-ID: <3D7EB945.2789053E@fsi.net>k  	 AG wrote:s > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D7E2C90.C69FD79C@fsi.net...e > K > > Use the DIR (DOS, Win, CMD) command or something that actually displaysaL > > the free byte count, divide it by powers of two and see what you come up, > > as the GBF as viewed by non-VMS o.s.-es. > B > Not quite so fast I'm afraid. The free byte count is pretty muchB > meaningless if you can't allocate those bytes individually. What9 > it shows is rather a measure of a wasted space (maybe).t > = > Remember, even the good old RSX used to show the file sizesp; > in two numbers like XX/YY where the XX stood for the usedi= > blocks and YY for the allocated ones. Even then, the "used"h% > above is rather conditional too ...t  & Naturally, VMS has DIRECTORY/SIZE=ALL.  C ...and you're quite right - the "free bytes" count doesn't take themE clustersize into account anymore than the free block count does. Then F again, the free block count will always be some multiple of the volumeB clustersize. So, calculating the number of free clusters should be simple.t   -- h David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:11:13 GMTt1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>h: Subject: Re: Encompass - how long before I get a response?. Message-ID: <RfAf9.440476$UU1.70808@sccrnsc03>  : "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message7 news:9059bf6b.0209100635.3e22fc91@posting.google.com...u> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message* news:<Itcf9.370194$me6.42316@sccrnsc01>...4 > > "NetBoot" <netboot@netboot.com> wrote in message3 > > news:MPG.17e2da227616fe5a98971b@news.ptd.net...iG > > > I've signed up for Encompass Tuesday.  How does it take to get any. > > > account and what should I do if I don't? > >eE > > I would join INTEREX. Thirty bucks a year AND you get a magazine!0 >1 > I have not seen the magazine.< >g > The website has: >cF > "Interex, the International Association of Hewlett-Packard ComputingH > Professionals, is an independent, not-for-profit association providingG > information, education, and advocacy services to members all over thef	 > world."i >sA > Will they compete for membership with Encompass by covering DECiF > specific information or will Interex leave the DEC specific stuff to > Encompass? >,H > I do not see a need to be in both for OpenVMS.  One or the other would# > be preferrable.  Will they merge?C  L Even as an Encompass BoD member, I haven't a clue. I note with interest that! INTEREX has a VMS page, though...    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2002 16:42:07 -0700' From: doran167W@aol.com (Doran Werling)h< Subject: Fabio Cardoso Enemy of the United States of America= Message-ID: <ece6bdea.0209101542.28a04513@posting.google.com>v   Fabio Cardoso,  K     Your insult and calluousness toward MY COUNTRY on the eve of September  I 11th can not go unanswered. You obviously think that the murder of 6000+ -- Americans is a joke.  The joke is now on you.r     Doran T. Werling RW/SCS Inc..; Electronics Techician 2nd Class United States Navy (Former)p        3 > Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote inn	 > message.> > news:<20020531194830.76598.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>...5 > > Why americans are so paranoids ???? Poor chinese,i > > iranians....0 > > You should look for their  "enemies" between6 > > the US militaries... they waste billion of dollars > > with6 > > these computer toys....this money should be useful0 > > to finish the starving of the own americans. > >  > >  > > Regardst > >  > > FC   > >s, --- Doran Werling <Doran167W@aol.com> wrote: >  > 1 > When civilian airliners full of innocent peopleb > start flying into buildingst" > in Brazil, then come talk to us. >  >  > - Doran Werlingl >   RW/SCS Inc.      ===== ) ==========================Blahhhhhh !!!!!n     Regardsl   FC h       Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilu fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:20:09 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>g@ Subject: Re: Fabio Cardoso Enemy of the United States of America. Message-ID: <doAf9.386669$me6.43562@sccrnsc01>  4 "Doran Werling" <doran167W@aol.com> wrote in message7 news:ece6bdea.0209101542.28a04513@posting.google.com...P > Fabio Cardoso, >iL >     Your insult and calluousness toward MY COUNTRY on the eve of SeptemberJ > 11th can not go unanswered. You obviously think that the murder of 6000+/ > Americans is a joke.  The joke is now on you.   L Fortunately, the 9-11-01 death toll was about ~3K (but if the terrorists hadL flown into the WTC a couple of hours later the death toll would have been inG the tens of thousands. I sincerely hope that we don't see the 3K figuret  double in the next several days.  B All major (and many minor) powers spend on the military. Remem berK Pakistan's Bhutto (before he was hanged) stating that his people "would eatcL grass" if necessary to develop a nuclear capability. North Korea lets peopleC starve (they don't have food stamps there, IIRC) in order to fund aaF prodigious military. Same can be said of Iraq. As for Red China, theirI military budget is at least 2x what they claim it to be. So this is not a  US-only phenomenon.a  J One point Fabio makes is intraservice rivalry, of which the US has plenty.L And our damned impressive intelligence agencies (dozens of 'em, if the truthH be known) still haven't figured out how to share information. That's one good reason why 9-11 happened.  ( Seems to me the US Govt could use a ZLE!  K America has its share of enemies, for reasons both real and imagined. Fabio-? certainly doesn't rank up there in the good ol' "Axis of Evil."u  J Of course, non-Americans have, in myh experience, a much different view of the USA than do we natives.   F Here's hoping for a peaceful 9-11. I'm betting it will be, at least on< passenger aircraft. I'm flying from DFW to  BOS on  9-11-02.     >n >s > Doran T. Werling
 > RW/SCS Inc. = > Electronics Techician 2nd Class United States Navy (Former)a >a >d >  > 5 > > Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote ini > > messageu@ > > news:<20020531194830.76598.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>...7 > > > Why americans are so paranoids ???? Poor chinese,  > > > iranians....2 > > > You should look for their  "enemies" between8 > > > the US militaries... they waste billion of dollars
 > > > with8 > > > these computer toys....this money should be useful2 > > > to finish the starving of the own americans. > > >  > > > 
 > > > Regards2 > > >3 > > > FC > > >r. > --- Doran Werling <Doran167W@aol.com> wrote: > >w > > 3 > > When civilian airliners full of innocent peopleg > > start flying into buildingse$ > > in Brazil, then come talk to us. > >w > >h > > - Doran Werlingt > >   RW/SCS Inc.i >o >n > =====u+ > ==========================Blahhhhhh !!!!!t >h >e	 > Regardsp >f > FC >a >t >p > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ==========================   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:55:12 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>D Subject: Re: H-P's Bruce Perens Fired For Being Too Anti-Microsoft ?B Message-ID: <kerf9.302297$On.12336784@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0209100809.4ef5cb97@posting.google.com...8> > LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message7 news:<WR3f9.241111$Yd.9565345@twister.austin.rr.com>...gE > > Could being too anti-Microsoft be hazard to one's career at H-P ?e >cG > I suspect that his earlier plan to publicly commit civil disobedienceoA > under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act's prohibition againstmH > reverse-engineering copy-protection schemes (see the InfoWorld articleJ > at http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/07/23/020723hnperens.xml)C > had much more to do with HP's concerns than his Linux advocacy or  > being anti-Microsoft.i  C If exercising the freedom of speech unambiguously guaranteed by thebK Constitution has become 'civil disobedience', then I'm all for it.  TestingeG the legality of unConstitutional legislation is not only a right, but ah public service.   J But I recognize that such a viewpoint is likely not at all consistent with the New HP Way.q   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:09:59 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r7 Subject: Re: Hobbyist vs Startup Business and Licensing:J Message-ID: <rksf9.156723$GK2.143019@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D7E1CBA.B33D82B5@fsi.net...C > John Smith wrote:u > >-@ > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message% > > news:3D7D44E4.EF7C3A09@fsi.net...r > > >hH > > > Not really. It's another one of those deals where you make less on eachL > > > sale, but you make more sales. ...and before anyone posts it, no, theyG > > > don't balance perfectly: 50% reductions in price do NOT yield 50%SF > > > increases in volume. Sorry - that's the way the cookie crumbles. > > >eJ > > > To revitalize (read: firm up) the revenue stream, you're gonna haftaD > > > sacrifice margin. Your margins will be lower, and your overall cashflowG > > > may go down somewhat compared to that same number of sales at theUD > > > current margin. The pay-off comes in the form of a more stable	 cashflow. L > > > Fluctuations in economic conditions will have less impact on your cashI > > > flow the larger your customer base becomes. When you have 1 millionoL > > > customers, you can afford to lose more of those customers during toughK > > > times than you can having only 400,000 customers when the tough timesm
 > > > hit. > > J > > To paraphrase Ronald Reagan during his debate with Jimmy Carter, "Well thereED > > you go again David"......presupposing that HP will listen to any
 suggestionK > > that will grow the VMS market, any more than Digital or Compaq did onceS theM > > rot set in.t >iG > Oh, I know full well they won't. My take on it, however, is that it'sRF > THEIR problem, not mine. VMS continues to stagnate under the presentH > regime. I view this doing little or nothing to justify the status quo. > I > > I can trot out at least a half-dozen letters I wrote to GQ Palmer andeH > > various and sundry marketing managers about the same issues a decade ago.K > > And letters I wrote to DEC 15-20 years ago about similar issues when itD cameH > > to hardware...remember 'proprietary Unibus'??? and firmware specific hardK > > disks and tape drives, where the specific firmware was a "RZ23" or "DECe" > > TZ10" or something like that?? >tF > Well, not to take away from your intentions, that was then - this is > now. > H > VMS is an orphan, at present, with no hardware platform that holds anyF > credibility in the eyes of prospective consumers (existing customersH > know to hang on to what Alphas they have): Alpha is viewed as dead andE > IA64 remains vaporware, at best. In anticipation of arguments: yes,NG > there are IA64 machines in production. How many of those are ready to  > run OpenVMS-IPF? >dA > So long as those millions of IA32 machines around the world andNC > currently in manufacture remain locked out of the VMS market, VMSeJ > remains an orphan until a "knight in shining armor" comes along and laysE > a production quality, ready-for-prime-time hardware platform at itsR > feet.  >fJ > Sorry to have to be such a bummer lately, but let's face it: 11-Sep-2001C > wasn't the first slap-in-face of reality that we got last year...t    # Can't argue with anything you said.c  K Too bad, whatzzhisname, HP's Jim Carlson, doesn't recognize that everythingaK he was thinking he'd want in IA-64 *already exists* in Alpha - Linux, Tru64-J unix, Windows 2000 64-bit RC1, OpenVMS. All they have to do is fire up the$ production line and lower the price.  E HP should say, "Mea Culpa. We pushed Compaq to kill Alpha. That was a K mistake. We pushed for IA-64. That was a mistake. We killed Tru64. That wasm- a mistake. We are going to fix our mistakes."y   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:59:07 GMT.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o7 Subject: Re: Hobbyist vs Startup Business and Licensing ' Message-ID: <3D7E627B.DAA2620E@fsi.net>d   John Smith wrote:  > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D7E1CBA.B33D82B5@fsi.net...h > > John Smith wrote:t > > >wB > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message' > > > news:3D7D44E4.EF7C3A09@fsi.net...o > > > > J > > > > Not really. It's another one of those deals where you make less on > eachN > > > > sale, but you make more sales. ...and before anyone posts it, no, theyI > > > > don't balance perfectly: 50% reductions in price do NOT yield 50%eH > > > > increases in volume. Sorry - that's the way the cookie crumbles. > > > > L > > > > To revitalize (read: firm up) the revenue stream, you're gonna haftaF > > > > sacrifice margin. Your margins will be lower, and your overall
 > cashflowI > > > > may go down somewhat compared to that same number of sales at thebF > > > > current margin. The pay-off comes in the form of a more stable > cashflow.vN > > > > Fluctuations in economic conditions will have less impact on your cashK > > > > flow the larger your customer base becomes. When you have 1 millionfN > > > > customers, you can afford to lose more of those customers during toughM > > > > times than you can having only 400,000 customers when the tough timesm > > > > hit. > > >cL > > > To paraphrase Ronald Reagan during his debate with Jimmy Carter, "Well > there-F > > > you go again David"......presupposing that HP will listen to any > suggestionM > > > that will grow the VMS market, any more than Digital or Compaq did onceM > thes > > > rot set in.2 > >0I > > Oh, I know full well they won't. My take on it, however, is that it'seH > > THEIR problem, not mine. VMS continues to stagnate under the presentJ > > regime. I view this doing little or nothing to justify the status quo. > > K > > > I can trot out at least a half-dozen letters I wrote to GQ Palmer and J > > > various and sundry marketing managers about the same issues a decade > ago.M > > > And letters I wrote to DEC 15-20 years ago about similar issues when itn > cameJ > > > to hardware...remember 'proprietary Unibus'??? and firmware specific > hardM > > > disks and tape drives, where the specific firmware was a "RZ23" or "DEC"$ > > > TZ10" or something like that?? > >tH > > Well, not to take away from your intentions, that was then - this is > > now. > >eJ > > VMS is an orphan, at present, with no hardware platform that holds anyH > > credibility in the eyes of prospective consumers (existing customersJ > > know to hang on to what Alphas they have): Alpha is viewed as dead andG > > IA64 remains vaporware, at best. In anticipation of arguments: yes,1I > > there are IA64 machines in production. How many of those are ready to: > > run OpenVMS-IPF? > >sC > > So long as those millions of IA32 machines around the world andaE > > currently in manufacture remain locked out of the VMS market, VMSnL > > remains an orphan until a "knight in shining armor" comes along and laysG > > a production quality, ready-for-prime-time hardware platform at itsu	 > > feet.  > >eL > > Sorry to have to be such a bummer lately, but let's face it: 11-Sep-2001E > > wasn't the first slap-in-face of reality that we got last year...  > % > Can't argue with anything you said.a > M > Too bad, whatzzhisname, HP's Jim Carlson, doesn't recognize that everythingeM > he was thinking he'd want in IA-64 *already exists* in Alpha - Linux, Tru64sL > unix, Windows 2000 64-bit RC1, OpenVMS. All they have to do is fire up the& > production line and lower the price. > G > HP should say, "Mea Culpa. We pushed Compaq to kill Alpha. That was adM > mistake. We pushed for IA-64. That was a mistake. We killed Tru64. That was / > a mistake. We are going to fix our mistakes."   D I have learned, however, that one never admits a mistake when one isC highly visible in the business world. Not sure why that is. As I'veDD posted before, I was raised to a higher standard: that it takes moreD courage, fortitude, dignity and integrity to admit a mistake than to? staunchly maintain one's "innocence" in the face of irrefutablesD evidence: "Sure, we went down in flames, but damnit, we knew we were: right, all the way until it killed us! ...and even after!"  F I'll never forget what they taught us in driver's ed. about "defensive8 driving": "You may be right, but don't be 'dead' right!"  B One of my mentors said (on the subject of negotiation): "Why is my> customer always right? Because I'd rather be rich than right."   -- o David J. Dachtera, dba DJE SystemsY http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:04:55 GMTc1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTm' Message-ID: <3D7E39A8.3CF7EFCC@fsi.net>    12:35 US CDT  G U.S. Att'y Gen'l John Ashcroft just appeared on the air and stated thatlE the U.S. has been raised to a high alert level, level 2 of 5 (roughly- equiv. to "DefCon 2").  H He urges Americans around the world to stand alert, yet stand defiant in< the face of potential threats surrounding the anniversary of 11-Sep-2001.  C Likewise, I urge my colleagues in all countries around the world tolG stand alert yet stand defiant in the face of potential threats by those.H who seek to impose their views through terrorism, barbarism, attrocities( and other sins against God and humanity.   --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:17:32 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>b% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT12 Message-ID: <0Hqf9.44$iT4.587818@news.cpqcorp.net>  H Puleeze.  Let's stick to VMS here.  I doubt that people use COV as theirJ primary, or even secondary source of information and news about terrorism, or patriotism.  G Find some other forum if you want to discuss the politics of terrorism.     A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3D7E39A8.3CF7EFCC@fsi.net>... 
 >12:35 US CDTr >iH >U.S. Att'y Gen'l John Ashcroft just appeared on the air and stated thatF >the U.S. has been raised to a high alert level, level 2 of 5 (roughly >equiv. to "DefCon 2").y >rI >He urges Americans around the world to stand alert, yet stand defiant inr= >the face of potential threats surrounding the anniversary of-
 >11-Sep-2001.  >aD >Likewise, I urge my colleagues in all countries around the world toH >stand alert yet stand defiant in the face of potential threats by thoseI >who seek to impose their views through terrorism, barbarism, attrocities ) >and other sins against God and humanity.C >T >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/l >h) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:s  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:41:52 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> % Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT , Message-ID: <3D7E58FC.F3F139CF@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:E > Likewise, I urge my colleagues in all countries around the world to I > stand alert yet stand defiant in the face of potential threats by thosetJ > who seek to impose their views through terrorism, barbarism, attrocities* > and other sins against God and humanity.  I Sorry. I urge all the people of the world to live their lives. I urge New @ Yorkers to close the big scar and rebuild the site and move on.   N Rubbing salt on the wound to prevent it from healing is not the right thing toI do for people. It might give politicians an extension in their popularity=K standings. You can remember the catastrophe without leaving the scar there.  G As far as terrorism in the USA, perhaps the US people should tell theiraI president to cough up the proofs or shut up about Irak. The more rethoric-L about any middle east country the US makes, the more it fuels the terrorists to act against the USA.u  K As far as the WTC site, I will go as far as stating that a memorial must beAJ built elsewhere. You don't want tens of thousands of commuters leaving theH Path or subway stations to be reminded that they are walking through theK graves where 3000 people were crushed to death. You want the new site to be K itself, not a shadow of the old site, and you want to make it attractive tomG new tennants, workers and shops. If you insist on leaving the site as anN rememberance of the castrastrophe, then you might as well make the whole thingM a park with the path and subways stations moved to ensure they are not in theo grave site.I  L Whatever is done to the WTC site will be there for generations to come.  TheN witnesses/survivors may have very strong feelings about the site, but one mustH consider the next generations of people. Do you really want to really to6 remind them that they are working on/in a grave site ?  W One can remember the Titanic disaster without being at the site of the Titanic sinking.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:43:31 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTa' Message-ID: <3D7E5ED4.413B86EF@fsi.net>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > J > Puleeze.  Let's stick to VMS here.  I doubt that people use COV as theirL > primary, or even secondary source of information and news about terrorism,  F That doesn't justify not posting it. Remember the 1st amendment? ...or% was that also a victim of the merger?i   > or patriotism.   Clearly, not my intent.   I > Find some other forum if you want to discuss the politics of terrorism.,  C Also, clearly, not my intent, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismissSG blithely that which effects all of us, everywhere, especially since youiG are a good 1200 miles or so closer to "ground zero" than Metro Chicago.nH If you can find it, listen CAREFULLY to the announcement, especially theD reason behind it. Then, I think you'll realize how inapproriate your comment was.   -- e David J. Dachteraw dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:48:19 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTi& Message-ID: <3D7E5FF6.DF0B186@fsi.net>   JF Mezei wrote:l > [snip]Y > One can remember the Titanic disaster without being at the site of the Titanic sinking.C  D I realize that Canada make choose to take a different set of actionsH since to date, Canada has not been a target in any major way and is moreG careful about aligning itself with the U.S. than perhaps Great Britain. G Be careful about falling into the trap of complacency that enabled 9/11= in the first place.h  C 9/11 must not be forgotten any more than Pearl Harbor, Bataan, etc.pD However, the issue is more immediate: current threats from terrorism against ANYone, ANYwhere.=  F "Get over it" may be fine in some situations. This is not one of them.   -- d David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/9   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:49:07 -0400O- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT., Message-ID: <3D7E68BA.882DDE6D@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:F > I realize that Canada make choose to take a different set of actions> > since to date, Canada has not been a target in any major way  K "Major" is a new definition since 9-11 since it is pretty hard to beat whatiG happened in New York in terms of the scale of the calamity. However, in E Qubec, we had the FLQ crisis in 1970. (Yes, terrorist wanting qubecoL separation kidnapping one minister and one british dioplomat) which resultedH in the army invading montreal with armed militia and tanks strategicallyM located, many human rights ignored to allow police to detain/interrogate manyuN people suspected of being linked etc. (the current party in power in Qubec is a descendant of the FLQ).s  L You shoud know that the govermment of the time was never really forgiven forJ the abuse of powers in declaring the wars measures act. This is one reasonN neither Pierre Trudeau or Jean Chrtien were very popular in Qubec since they; were instrumental in deciding on imposing war measures act.S   Secondly, I suggest you visit:   http://theganderconnection.org/nM http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/krista.ken/  <- has the more interesting picturesn http://www.ua929.org/e http://www.deltaflight15.org/C  I For an idea of what happened in almost all cities in Canada one year ago. J Gander, nearly doubled in size to accomodate as many as it could. This wasL repeated in many cities in canada. And as a result of this, the only airlineN designated by the government to provide nationwide competition to our monopolyT , Air Canada, was forced into real bankrupcy (ceased to exist) a couple weeks later.  9 The calamity of 9-11 was shared by many around the world.   E > 9/11 must not be forgotten any more than Pearl Harbor, Bataan, etc. F > However, the issue is more immediate: current threats from terrorism > against ANYone, ANYwhere.h  K 9-11 is a disaster of human proprotions. 9-11 is to remember the people who-N died instantly, those who were above and unable to exit and suffered intil theN collapse, those who survived, those who witnessed the horror. It is also a dayM to remember those who worked to save people, and cleanup the mess afterwards.o6 It isn't a day to talk about Ossama or Saddam or war.   N The warnings by your government are totally counterproductive. They could haveG simply increased police presence and surveillance and achieved the sameeL results without creating the sense of danger  or panic. This also applies toG the rethoric about Irak whose timing is very bizarre to say the least. oG Face/Accept the fact that Ossama escaped and stop tryng to find anothere+ figurehead you can blame for your problems.R  N If the USA knows of a specific plan, they can thwart it. If they don't know ofM a specific plan, then no amount of warning will prevent it because they can't  target anything.  J I can tell you that for the past few days, i have noticed increased policeL presence at Montreal's remaining arport. Yet no big fiss is made about it inE the media and people aren't told about potential threats to aviation..   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:44:25 +0200n From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTZ3 Message-ID: <aDtf9.23984$H6.2502073@zwoll1.home.nl>    David J. Dachtera wrote: > 12:35 US CDT > I > U.S. Att'y Gen'l John Ashcroft just appeared on the air and stated thathG > the U.S. has been raised to a high alert level, level 2 of 5 (roughlyg > equiv. to "DefCon 2"). > J > He urges Americans around the world to stand alert, yet stand defiant in> > the face of potential threats surrounding the anniversary of > 11-Sep-2001. > E > Likewise, I urge my colleagues in all countries around the world tolI > stand alert yet stand defiant in the face of potential threats by thosenJ > who seek to impose their views through terrorism, barbarism, attrocities* > and other sins against God and humanity.  O Does this include not buying and using Windooz ? (sorry, could not resist :-) )   Q On a more serious tone: let's not get hysterical please. I can understand the US 0O being on high alert, but Armageddon is not going to happen (yet). Even if some 'N lunatic bearded idiots were capable of killing some 3000 people, this wil not Q really affect our daily life. However when we get hysterical, we will ultimately sO give them what they wanted, the disruption of our society. Do what the British  0 did in WWII, don't let terror disrupt your life.  P Oh yes, and Bin Ladens crazy ideas have as much to do with Islam as the Spanish 3 Inquisition had to do with Christianity: NOTHING !!k   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:00:23 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTa, Message-ID: <3D7E95A5.8634F77E@videotron.ca>   Dirk Munk wrote:R > On a more serious tone: let's not get hysterical please. I can understand the USP > being on high alert, but Armageddon is not going to happen (yet). Even if someO > lunatic bearded idiots were capable of killing some 3000 people, this wil noth > really affect our daily life.t  F While I agree with your apparent content, I don't agree with it 100%.   M Thw World Trade Center was a massive piece of architecture. The towers seemed L slim, but they were in fact very massive. They seemed slim because they wereM so tall. The fire and ensuing collapse might be worthy of the word Armageddon I because of the sheer size of the calamity. In fact, they showed the movie J "Armageddon" here some time ago on TV and the initial scene where New YorkF gets bombarded by meteors pales in comparison with the WTC going down.  N An atomic bomb might have been less memorable for the simple reason that thereL wouldn't have been anything to cleanup and it wouldn't have been such a long agony shown live on TV.l  L While about 2801 people lost their lives, lets not forget all those who wereM traumatised by being in the towers and escaping, many having lost co-workers.tN Lets not forget all the witnesses on site who saw people fall to their deaths,L seing those stranded above the impact zone wave white cloths at the windows.K At least the people on Titanic who didn't have access to a lifeboat had therN opportunity to jump in the water and try to swim and hope to beat hypothermia.A Those above the impact zone of tower 1 didn't have such a luxury.y   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:19:54 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTe' Message-ID: <3D7EBBBB.BF64FA21@fsi.net>d   Dirk Munk wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > 12:35 US CDT > >tK > > U.S. Att'y Gen'l John Ashcroft just appeared on the air and stated thatoI > > the U.S. has been raised to a high alert level, level 2 of 5 (roughly  > > equiv. to "DefCon 2"). > > L > > He urges Americans around the world to stand alert, yet stand defiant in@ > > the face of potential threats surrounding the anniversary of > > 11-Sep-2001. > > G > > Likewise, I urge my colleagues in all countries around the world to"K > > stand alert yet stand defiant in the face of potential threats by thosefL > > who seek to impose their views through terrorism, barbarism, attrocities, > > and other sins against God and humanity. > Q > Does this include not buying and using Windooz ? (sorry, could not resist :-) )  > R > On a more serious tone: let's not get hysterical please. I can understand the USP > being on high alert, but Armageddon is not going to happen (yet). Even if someO > lunatic bearded idiots were capable of killing some 3000 people, this wil nots > really affect our daily life.f  = Well, we've got Dirk from The Netherlands and JF from Canada.e  E I must admit, I did not expect these types of responses when I posted D what I believed to be an echo of the government's concern over signs  that could be interpreted badly.  H If you've been effected by the economic downturn whose pace was somewhatD accelerated by 9/11 and further exacerbated by Enron, then yes: suchH events *DO* effect your daily life, regardless of where in the world you live.a  4 > However when we get hysterical, we will ultimatelyP > give them what they wanted, the disruption of our society. Do what the British2 > did in WWII, don't let terror disrupt your life.  E I'm not sure who you see as "getting hysterical". I'd consider that an; large gap exists between "hysteria" and "heightened alert".d  Q > Oh yes, and Bin Ladens crazy ideas have as much to do with Islam as the Spanishe5 > Inquisition had to do with Christianity: NOTHING !!   F Eh, well, I'd say it's the difference between the purest tenets of theC faith contrasted with the efforts of those who seek to exploit thatwH "infrastructure" to assert unwarranted authority or usurp that which mayD have initially been rightfully granted. In any case, as a Dutch tourD guide explained back in '89, the "'Holy' Roman Empire" really was anH unholy travesty compared with the teachings of The Jewish Carpenter. I'dE have to view the actions of Al Qaeda as likewise being counter to the  teachings of The Prophet.    -- u David J. Dachterab dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 00:34:19 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> % Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTf, Message-ID: <3D7EC7BB.4EE8BE29@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > If you've been effected by the economic downturn whose pace was somewhat > accelerated by 9/11   K Agreed. And not just companies in the USA were affected. All of the airline.M industry suffered a big setback. Airbus estimates that the ground lost due torI 9/11 will never be reclaimed and as a result, all projections for trafficv' growth will be pushed back a few years.f  G > I'm not sure who you see as "getting hysterical". I'd consider that ae= > large gap exists between "hysteria" and "heightened alert".s  M Give you an example: watched TV on and off during the day and all night whileeN doing other stuff. CNN during the day was acting as a US government propagandaH machine spewing out all sorts of scary stories about terrorist threaths,M missiles with live ammo being installed in and around washington etc. Oh, and # that irak thing still being pushed.   D Meanwhile, in Canada, and on PBS, we has programs with interviews of: survivors, families, firemen, how they cleaned the rubble.  > The USA government should have really focused on remembering.   M The human stories are far more important. While folks talk about the 2801 who8N died, few talk about the survivors, the families of survivors and the familiesI who have not yet had closure due to the body not having been recoved. OnebM survivor said that where he is now, he is constantly looking and the best waytM out, be it from a ferry, a bus, building etc and says this will probably stayF( with him for the remainder of his life.   L Few talk about how it must have felt to those stranded above the impact zoneM in tower 1 with no way out. In the CBS "9/11" documentary aired in march, oneC
 firemen says:HP 	"How bad must it have been up there such that the better solution was to jump".  L I am sorry, but Saddam can wait. Now is the time to remember the catastropheN of sept 11. Now is not the time to escalate the tensions and threats, which is! the agenda of the USA government.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:26:04 +0200b@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>I Subject: Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)" + Message-ID: <3D7E393C.7030302@mail.tele.dk>s   David J. Dachtera wrote:  G > Did y'ever notice that there's no system service to equivalent to SET 
 > DEFAULT?  . You can not do ith one call. But you can do it with two calls.S   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:36:54 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>oI Subject: Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"f' Message-ID: <3D7E5D4A.16305748@fsi.net>t   Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > I > > Did y'ever notice that there's no system service to equivalent to SETe > > DEFAULT? > 0 > You can not do ith one call. But you can do it > with two calls.e   Precisely my point.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:25:47 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>UI Subject: Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"o, Message-ID: <3D7E6344.7F783A2A@videotron.ca>  K > > > Did y'ever notice that there's no system service to equivalent to SETo > > > DEFAULT? > >u2 > > You can not do ith one call. But you can do it > > with two calls.u  M But when you consider the various structures that need to be setup before youeS can make those 2 calls, it is far more involved than a simple SET DEFAULT from DCL.e  K It could also be argued that you would need 3 calls. A SYS$PARSE to get the K device name and directory, followed by the $CRELNM to set SYS$DISK and thens& SYS$SETDDIR for the default directory.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2002 12:46:34 -0700" From: ccc_crg@yahoo.com (Chris G.)Y Subject: Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns! = Message-ID: <5437ff2f.0209101146.1f09822c@posting.google.com>t  d winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote in message news:<00A13BCA.F50E06FD@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>... > N > "Nothing more than a rebadged Apache server compiled on VMS."  It's a littleM > hard to tell if you mean to be as dismissive of the considerable efforts ofhO > the CSWS team in VMS Engineering as you sound.  They've done a lot more work  0 > just unpacking gzipped sources and typing MMS. > 	 > -- Alan E I absolutely agree! I think CSWS is quite possibly the MOST IMPORTANTg, product that is available for OpenVMS today.  C Why?  HPaq now have the potential to market "the worlds most securep< webserver" and stand by that claim.  Just as Lotus-1-2-3 wasE responsible for making the IBM-PC popular overnight back in the earlyiE 80s, so CSWS could be what gets OpenVMS into every business, small or E large, that wants to host their own server on the internet.   And how 8 many ISPs are offering Virtual Hosting on CSWS? Why not?  ? Think about it, "worlds most secure webserver" could be a GREAT ? advertising pitch, at a time when MS NT/IIS vulnerabilities arec anounced almost fortnightly.  F The stumbling block is the price. I sell Linux based web-servers to myD customers, and I can provide them with very cost effective solutionsE that way.  Until I can get OpenVMS + TCP/IP for $500 or $600 at most,aE it is going to be difficult for me to sell the idea that the security/- and robustness of VMS is worth the extra $$$.t  A Also with regards to the CSWS Engineering team, wow! What a greataC bunch! I used the web-mail form on the CSWS website to post a query.F about a PHP library call on the T1.3 beta that I couldn't get to work,E and within a day, a very friendly and helpful engineer had made a fixbB and emailed me the patch!  Considering that I only have a hobbyist< license for my home machine, with no support contract, I wasB completely blown away by such dedication!  A big Thank You to CSWS Engineering.   Cheers,a
 Chris Guthreyg   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2002 16:35:09 -0700/ From: chris@applied-synergy.com (Chris Scheers)lE Subject: Re: Licenses, MicroVAX 3800 Console (was: Re: Two questions)h= Message-ID: <754a27c1.0209101535.1f924276@posting.google.com>d  d hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<alj8ta$ss6$1@web1.cup.hp.com>...  J >   The KA650 and KA655 series consoles had at least one function commonlyH >   found and commonly used on previous KA630 MicroVAX consoles excised,F >   simply to provide room in the ROM for the then-new console commandI >   interface.    Extra credit: name this most significant feature of theoJ >   KA630 console that was removed from the KA650 and KA655 series console >   program.    B Hmmm... I would have to boot up a KA650 to check, but could it be:  !      Searching for a boot device?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:16:13 -0400n5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>t Subject: Marvel preview days* Message-ID: <allcui$ni1$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  8 Announcing the Next Generation AlphaServer Preview Days.  $ Featuring the EV7 AlphaServer Family            J Invite your customers today. Don't let anyone miss this opportunity to see? and hear from the experts on the latest AlphaServer technology!i      K On April 8th, Compaq pre-announced it's next-generation AlphaServer systems E based on the EV7 Alpha processor technology. In conjunction with thishL pre-announcement, NA High Performance Systems is hosting a series of Preview Days for customers.   L The Preview Days are half day events and will occur once a month starting inL May and will run through November. The following is the listing of the datesI the Preview Days will be held: September 17, October 16, and November 13. G All Preview Days will be held at the HP Customer Centre, New England inrL Marlborough, MA. Attached to this memo is an invitation for the Preview Day,E occurring in September, that you can email to your customers now. ThelL invitation contains more details such as the agenda and how to register. ForD all subsequent dates following September 17th, the invitation can beD modified to reflect the date your customers are available to attend.  > The Preview Days are open to HP Resellers and their customers.  E For any questions regarding Preview Days, please contact Robin Canty,h  robin.canty@hp.com, 508-467-4814  9 *****the following was an attached word file Sue Skontskir  #  When:  Tuesday, September 17, 2002o   \8:30 am to 2:00 pme  ' Where:  HP Customer Centre, New England   
 2 Results Way    Marlborough, MA  01752      H This half day event offers a unique opportunity to learn more about HP'sK most technically advanced family of HP AlphaServer systems ever, deliveringhA the industry's strongest combination of performance, scalability, A reliability and availability for mission-critical enterprise highf  performance technical computing.  J  Corporate executives and technical experts from HP will present and be on hand to answer questions.o       AGENDA:y      @   8:30 - 8:45             Continental Breakfast, Sign-in & NDA's    8                           8:45 - 9:00            Welcome    +  9:00 -10:00           AlphaServer Strategyi      K 10:00 -11:00            Technical Overview:  Next Generation HP AlphaServero Series        11:00 -12:00            Lab Tour  = 12:00 - 1:00            Working Lunch - Services Presentatione    7                          1:00 - 2:00            Closing       G  Space is limited.  Please register by no later than September, 13.  To H register, email the following information to: jean.doiron@hp.com or call 603-884-6586       Registration Information:   ' Name:  ________________________________   ' Company:  _____________________________t  * Title:  __________________________________  + Dietary Restrictions:  ____________________m   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2002 11:58:38 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)A Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!t= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0209101058.18419917@posting.google.com>h  u "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<3Gnf9.154936$GK2.112337@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...i7 > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagen& > news:3D7D8CEC.70602@tsoft-inc.com... > > L > > Low end VMS appears to be one of the victims of the killing of Alpha and >  theF > > other less desirable things that have occured in the last 2 years. >  > K > Well of course. When you are only selling to existing customers, and onlybN > expect those exisiting customers to be larger players anyway, and you expectK > them to migrate to unix, linux, or Windows, why consider the needs of ther
 > low-end? >   D I talked to Rich Marcello about this awhile ago ... why do you thinkB they went ahead and did the DS25 for VMS, because I told him about: customers like us who needed small workgroup solutions ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:25:10 GMTy# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tA Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!iI Message-ID: <qIyf9.158196$GK2.36185@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagep7 news:d7791aa1.0209101058.18419917@posting.google.com...!0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF news:<3Gnf9.154936$GK2.112337@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...9 > > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message3( > > news:3D7D8CEC.70602@tsoft-inc.com... > > >:J > > > Low end VMS appears to be one of the victims of the killing of Alpha and  > >  theH > > > other less desirable things that have occured in the last 2 years. > >u > > H > > Well of course. When you are only selling to existing customers, and onlyI > > expect those exisiting customers to be larger players anyway, and you' expectI > > them to migrate to unix, linux, or Windows, why consider the needs ofe the  > > low-end? > >m >uF > I talked to Rich Marcello about this awhile ago ... why do you thinkD > they went ahead and did the DS25 for VMS, because I told him about< > customers like us who needed small workgroup solutions ...    I Remember TGV? Two Guys and a Vax?  Corporately HP needs to recognize thatnK there are companies out there like that, or at least there ought to be. AndgL that means having systems and software available at a price they can afford,F other than going to eBay to buy used gear and then illegally using the= hobbyist licences to do commercial software development with.8  H It means recruiting companies like that, rather than sitting high on theJ mountain saying "Thou shalt not approach the Gods unless you are doing $104 million in annual sales before you darken our door."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:23:46 -0400t5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>d* Subject: NY/NYC meeting - Local User Group* Message-ID: <alldbq$noh$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  8 NY Metro Encompass Local User Group Meeting Announcement      - What: OpenVMS Web Server in System Management-  1 When: Thursday, September 19th, 5:00 pm - 7:00 pm5  J Where: HP, 8thFloor, 2 Penn Plaza, New York City. (7th Avenue at 32nd st.)  G How: Register via email to Lynne.Hummel@hp.com, with LUG in the subject  line.     : 5:00 - 5:15pm Check-in and old-fashioned DECUS networking.  B 5:15 - Lynne Hummel, High Performance System Sales,HP, Welcome and
 Announcementss  A 5:25 - Gary McCready/Jim Gursha - Lug and Encompass announcements.  : 5:30 - Ted Burrowes, System Architect, HP - OpenVMS Update  H 6:00 -7:00pm - Featured Presentation : Running a Webserver on OpenVMS to Manage OpenVMS.i    E Peter Smode will present the whys and hows of running a web server tol  D manage OpenVMS systems, including servers and tools to use, security  H concerns, and examples of applications that can be integrated with a web  D server. Those applications include Console Manager event processing,  I Scheduler, CGI, RSH, and DECps Graphs. Pointers to resources will also be,  	 provided.s   Limited seating available.  H We are grateful to be hosted by HP, who will provide light refreshments.  L You will be met by a HP employee at the security desk at the entrance to the- building (now at the 7th Avenue side). Shouldm  I you arrive late, please call the HP reception desk at 212-856-2000 for an  escort.f  E For further information on the group you may contact Gary McCready att  $ NYMLUG@McCready.com or 201-556-3359.  E Apologies are in order if you have received multiple versions of thish  D message. Feel free to forward this message to others who may have an  L interest in attending - you do not have to be an Encompass member to attend.  I If you did not receive an "original" version of this message, please joinh  ; our mailing list at <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYMLUG/>l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:46:14 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: OT: HP PDA rankings, Message-ID: <3D7E3DE9.D707957C@videotron.ca>  M Found the following bit of information. While OT at first, remember that this N may provide some insight on what will happen when the merger is all done with.  K Remmber that HP announced it was dropping its own PDA products and adoptingeK Compaq's Ipaq to streamline its product line). While HP still faired bettera< than Handspring, its market share fell from 22% down to 16%.  ) Found the following tidbit of infomation:o  F Top 5 Vendors, Worldwide Handheld Device Shipment, Second Quarter 2002   (Shipments are in Thousands)K                      Q2 2002   Market   Q2 2001    Market   Shipment GrowthpG    Vendor            Shipment  Share    Shipment   Share      2002/2001tE    Palm               845.64   32.2%     890.00    30.8%        -5.0%oE    Hewlett-Packard    431.65   16.5%     642.66    22.2%       -32.8%.E    Sony               261.38   10.0%      75.00     2.6%       248.5%/E    Handspring         170.59    6.5%     298.00    10.3%       -42.8%0E    Hi-Tech Wealth     119.74    4.6%     124.90     4.3%        -4.1%:E    Others             793.27   30.2%     861.34    29.8%         8.6%nE    All Vendors      2,622.27    100%   2,891.90     100%        -9.3%o
   Source: IDCw    & (HP includes the Compaq ipaq numbers).    K So if similar things happen to its wintel business, HP may not be doing too.M well.  And their Linux strategy was just handed quite a blow (not that it wasr credible to begin with).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:47:57 +0200a" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Pathworks..6 Message-ID: <alli9t$1qsdgu$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  : "Vic Mendham" <c00per11242001@yahoo.ca> schreef in bericht6 news:f7a73cb1.0209100739.e64948f@posting.google.com...C > We're migrating from one outsourcer to another and the new vendorn > doesn't support Decnet.n >uC > We are buying old refurbished 6610's etc... to mirror our current 4 > systems and will Image restore to the new systems. >h@ > 1. How can I tell the decnet cfg of pathworks and ensure it is > configured for TCP/IP. >m. > 2. Will a node name change affect pathworks? > G General comment: it does not matter if your third party vendor does notuJ support DECnet, that is IF you have DECnet phase 5 then you can use DECnet? over IP. The vendor won't have a clue that you're using DECnet.h  @ 1) ADMIN/MENU maintains information about the network protocols.= At least that's what I use on VAX/VMS 7.2 and Pathworks 6.0D.   G 2) The way I read the question, the situation is like this: A node nametJ change affects DECnet. If you're running DECnet, and Pathworks over DECnetC then Pathworks (as all other DECnet applications) will be affected.   H There is no relation other than convenience between an IP hostname and aK DECnet nodename. But a system has just one DECnet address and name (perhapsuI a cluster alias besides) and has one or more IP address per adapter. EachmI address has its own hostname, possibly even its own domain name. So an IPfJ configuration is not necessarily a translation, so to speak, of the DECnet config.n   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:40:43 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)) Subject: Re: Post answers in forum peoplej4 Message-ID: <%Urf9.68961$1S3.2156656@news.chello.at>  k In article <5yRd9.3913$ip3.436237@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:c8 >If you had legitamate suggestion please post in forum.   : Sorry to sound rude, but _I_ will not post(read) in forum.< We all have a forum. It's called USENET and doesn't impose a= browser to read/write though a browser can be used of course.d  N And I will not use more than one medium to address the same interest (groups).  L >                                                         That's where he'llC >be checking for responses.  Not sure if he visits the newsgroups. e   That is his problem only.a   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERo% Network and OpenVMS system specialistd E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:44:55 +0200m@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>: Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!+ Message-ID: <3D7E3DA7.8000409@mail.tele.dk>R  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  = > So for the vast majority of commercial workloads you have a < > choice of platforms, one has performance numbers that show; > that its a performance leader, one has performance claims C > made for it but few numbers with the ones available contradictingrF > these claims. The former is SPARC Solaris the latter is Alpha/Tru64.  3 What benchmarks does not have Alpha/Tru64 numbers ?t   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2002 12:36:37 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)L" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!3 Message-ID: <JNbGG0GqtEoe@eisner.encompasserve.org>-   In article <all5l8$3jm$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: > _ >> In article <3D79289F.FA759F9D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:D >> w >>>Rob Young wrote:< >>>BQ >>>>        So what if their market share increased.  Their margins are crashing.e >>>>O >>>Do you agree that Sun is in a market (real enterprise servers) where marginseL >>>make it much easier to make a profit compared to the wintel server market- >>>which seems to be the focus for Capellas ?p >>>g >> p >> u@ >> 	I agree that unix server margins are higher.  I also see box> >> 	counts and Intel servers (4 and 8 way) sell in much higherE >> 	numbers than Sun 4+8 way.  Because Intel margins are thinner and  C >> 	counts are higher, increasing pressure comes to unix servers.  s >> s >  > C > Really then again you would be wrong. The Sun V880 is the largesta > selling 8 way server.b >  > I >> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nf/20020903/bs_nf/19264  >> eQ >> Technology research firm IDC reported Friday that in a server market dominatedhO >> by less expensive entry-level servers, Hewlett-Packard's ( NYSE: HPQ - news)tL >> acquisition of Compaq helped the company pull even with IBM ( NYSE: IBM -D >> news), which dominated the overall server market for many years.  >> e >> === >> tB >> 	Dominated by less expensive entry level servers.  Servers that< >> 	will continue to have declining margins. 1U and 2U, etc. >> aI >> 	Sun is in a spot.  As you look at the 5 or so segments that make themnD >> 	money, server hardware makes up a disproportinate slice of those@ >> 	segments.  Hence, they are being downgraded across the boardC >> 	by Wall Street analysts.  Gals and guys that make lots of money B >> 	and spend lots of time studying the subject.  Collectively areA >> 	the 8+ firms that are Bearish on Sun wrong?  Highly unlikely.  >> e >  > > > The V880 an 8 way server which you apparently think is right< > in the squeeze zone increased its revenues last quarter by9 > 127%. Odd, given that all the facts dispute your theory $ > why do you continue to espouse it. > > > For the last 3 years you have continued to advance basically9 > the same theory without a shred of supporting evidence.n: > Namely that low end PC's will squeeze Sun out of the low
 > end market.. > < > Since then Sun's share of the low end market has grown and: > continues to do so. In the last quarter it was up by 17% > on the 0-99K segment.  >  > Time for a new theory ?? >    	Not at all... n   	In August 2001 I wrote:  c http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=EzdFwRUb9XZh%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain   D 	Actually, it is more than that.  IBM's "deep thinkers" have decided= 	to give Linux a big push.  When servers across the board aremG 	nasty commodities and Dell keeps ripping share, they (HP, IBM, Compaq, E 	bye-bye Sun) all need to focus on different segments... the segmentsi 	are:a  
 		1)  Storage  		2)  Software 		3)  Services  ? 	to complement their declining margins in servers (margins thats7 	will follow similar curves that PCs left as examples).s   ---g  B 	Server margins will follow PC margins and there is ample evidence 	that is so.  > 	In August 2001 Sun was trading near $20 a share.  Since then, 	it is at $3 and change.  % 	Once again, in your attempt to spin:   : > Namely that low end PC's will squeeze Sun out of the low
 > end market.   ? 	I haven't promoted that.  I've promoted in general that servereA 	margins will slide and it will impact the big players most.  AndtA 	Sun much more than others as Sun is basically a one-trick pony, s$ 	hardware.  And Wall Street concurs:  M "As the weak IT spending picture weighs on the sector, Sun is also challengedtN by several company-specific issues," wrote J.P. Morgan analyst Bill Shope. "WeE believe that Sun continues to grapple with a core market slowdown andm increasing competition."  H In the low-end, Sun is facing a threat from the Microsoft-Linux industryN standard server vendors, such as Dell, he told clients. The threat is startingN to creep up into the midrange Unix server market, where pricing competition isO fierce. In the high end, Sun faces off with IBM and Hewlett-Packard (HPQ: news,S chart, profile).  N At least eight Wall Street brokerages cut their earnings and revenue estimatesJ for the computer hardware and services company, not only for Sun's current1 fiscal first quarter but also for 2003 and 2004."n   ---b   				Rob   B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonder8G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstreamt> The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  .                                 -- Neil Young    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:02:32 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!' Message-ID: <3D7E634C.426B53C0@fsi.net>i   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:a > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D7E2A1B.A6AE5329@fsi.net...r > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > > [snip]C > > Well, my apologies to the group for setting off the subthreads.  > > K > > I must say that so far the response has been underwhelming. So, I don'tv  > > see going forward with this. > > L > > More than one respondent suggested soliciting 1000 responses at $10 U.S.! > > each. I'll watch my e-mail...  > N > Keep watching, you've got my $10. I'd also suggest that everyone with an axeK > to grind (or not) purchase 1 to 10 HPQ shares. Cost would be $15 to $150, L > cheaper than a Stones concert ticket, and guaranteed access to stockholderH > meetings which might be even more fun than a Stones concert (or Warren' > Zevon, if you don't like the Stones)._  C Actually, I like most of Enya's work, but I'd pay to attend an ABBA_ reunion concert...   --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems_ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:19:15 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>9" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!? Message-ID: <TArf9.258370$_91.286224@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>3  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D7E2A1B.A6AE5329@fsi.net...g > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:
 > > [snip]A > Well, my apologies to the group for setting off the subthreads.l > I > I must say that so far the response has been underwhelming. So, I don'tt > see going forward with this. > J > More than one respondent suggested soliciting 1000 responses at $10 U.S. > each. I'll watch my e-mail...l  L Keep watching, you've got my $10. I'd also suggest that everyone with an axeI to grind (or not) purchase 1 to 10 HPQ shares. Cost would be $15 to $150,eJ cheaper than a Stones concert ticket, and guaranteed access to stockholderF meetings which might be even more fun than a Stones concert (or Warren% Zevon, if you don't like the Stones).-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:25:00 +0200m@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on+ Message-ID: <3D7E38FC.8030809@mail.tele.dk>o   JF Mezei wrote:w  1 >>I did forget an office package like StarOffice.o    >  H > I am not sure you'd really need that. Get Wordperfect to make a betterP > commitment to VMS, spruce up VMSmail to handle attachements, fixup CALENDAR toP > have "server like" functions (like checking if you can schedule something with > your boss next week).      ????  * AFAIK the last WP version for VMS is 5.1+.3 And that type of application was fine 10 years ago.h
 No longer so.     4 VMS mail - I like VMS mail, but again it is 10 years' behind. It is not a solution for today.r  4 Calendar ? Todays standard is not just "coordination6 between users on one server" but "coordination between users on multiple servers".o   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:05:02 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>kJ Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on+ Message-ID: <3D7E4251.87D9ED7@videotron.ca>l   Arne Vajhj wrote:, > AFAIK the last WP version for VMS is 5.1+.5 > And that type of application was fine 10 years ago.i  5 Hence request to get better commitment from WP to VMSh  6 > VMS mail - I like VMS mail, but again it is 10 years) > behind. It is not a solution for today.d  G Hence the request to bring it up to date with handling of attachement. w  6 > Calendar ? Todays standard is not just "coordination8 > between users on one server" but "coordination between > users on multiple servers".d  N Again, request to spruce up that application. Better integration with VMS MailI would also make messages such as "do you agree to a meeting on Sept 12 at N :11:45, if so, press OK and your agenda will be updated and I will be notified you agreed".   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:02:04 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>pJ Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on+ Message-ID: <3D7E4FAA.FBE3F32@videotron.ca>n   Arne Vajhj wrote:
 > It is also:t >    - smart GUI >    - faster mail storage  / What is inherently bad about the VMS mail GUI ?   H As far as the mail storage, this is a question I have had for some time.J Compared to the iPlanet and other mail systems used by very large ISPs forJ processing hundreds of thousands of email messages per day (or whater load& they have) how does VMS mail perform ?  L Does the VMSmail.mai format work well for high volume settings ? Or does theM need to periodically reorganise it ( COMPRESS ) make it ill suited for such an high volume 7/24 application ?    + > It will probbaly make more sense to writee) > and Exchange compatible server for VMS.l  L It was called ALL-IN-1/Office Server. Dumped by Capellas and friends on June 25 2001.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:04:23 GMTr1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)eJ Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on; Message-ID: <r7tf9.248833$Yd.9774359@twister.austin.rr.com>h  A Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= (arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk) wrote:u : JF Mezei wrote:  : 3 : >>I did forget an office package like StarOffice.- :  :  > : J : > I am not sure you'd really need that. Get Wordperfect to make a betterR : > commitment to VMS, spruce up VMSmail to handle attachements, fixup CALENDAR toR : > have "server like" functions (like checking if you can schedule something with : > your boss next week).n :  :  : ???? : , : AFAIK the last WP version for VMS is 5.1+.5 : And that type of application was fine 10 years ago.v : No longer so.s :  : 6 : VMS mail - I like VMS mail, but again it is 10 years) : behind. It is not a solution for today.- : 6 : Calendar ? Todays standard is not just "coordination8 : between users on one server" but "coordination between : users on multiple servers".E :   F H-P could port their OpenMail product from unix to VMS, if they wanted0 to provide a replacement for an Exchange Server.  # They'd still need a client for VMS.r  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:30:49 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on, Message-ID: <3D7E6471.477A9035@videotron.ca>   Another suggestion:u  N HELP/search="default directory" would list all subjects/subtopics that contain the string.  eg:    System services - $SETDDIR  2 In the case of "define logical", it would list the  System services - $CRELNM %  RTL - LIB - LIB$SET_LOGICAL  M Just a suggestion. But with the list of system services growing, it sometimes6; becomes difficult to find that obscure name you rarely use.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:35:00 GMTt% From: "-Andy-" <acs@fcgnet.works.net>%J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on> Message-ID: <Xns9285B28C6D77Aacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  : LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) enlightened us= with news:r7tf9.248833$Yd.9774359@twister.austin.rr.com on 10 
 Sep 2002:     n< > H-P could port their OpenMail product from unix to VMS, if6 > they wanted to provide a replacement for an Exchange
 > Server.  > % > They'd still need a client for VMS.   ? They would also have to buy it back from whomever they sold it c$ to (Samsung ?) when they dropped it.   -Andy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:07:24 +0200e@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on+ Message-ID: <3D7E42EC.2090804@mail.tele.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:0   > Arne Vajhj wrote:, >>AFAIK the last WP version for VMS is 5.1+.5 >>And that type of application was fine 10 years ago.g > 7 > Hence request to get better commitment from WP to VMS      Hmmm.   9 Why should Corel (or HP) spend money porting a commercialo: office package to VMS when the market for this is close to zero ?  6 >>VMS mail - I like VMS mail, but again it is 10 years) >>behind. It is not a solution for today.t > I > Hence the request to bring it up to date with handling of attachement.       It is not just attachments.I   It is also:     - smart GUI    - faster mail storage    - directory    - integration with calendar    etc.t   And again: where is the money ?r  ) It will probbaly make more sense to writen* and Exchange compatible server for VMS. It+ could be secure and reliable. And there areo- a couple of hundred millions of Outlook usersd, out there that need an Exchange (comaptible) server.d   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:05:22 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>oJ Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on' Message-ID: <3D7EB856.EE4320E5@fsi.net>t   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Another suggestion:- > P > HELP/search="default directory" would list all subjects/subtopics that contain
 > the string.: > eg:s >  > System services - $SETDDIR > 4 > In the case of "define logical", it would list the >  System services - $CRELNM >  RTL - LIB - LIB$SET_LOGICAL > O > Just a suggestion. But with the list of system services growing, it sometimes = > becomes difficult to find that obscure name you rarely use.i  H Hhmmm... looks like you're asking for the VMS equivalent of "apropos"...   -- r David J. Dachterab dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:03:54 +0200b2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on; Message-ID: <3d7ea48a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>a  . JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote:5 > > Even though in 95% of cases a C++ library is very-; > > easy to use in C, then Xerces may belong to the last 5%87 > > because it is object oriented code not just code inR3 > > an object oriented language (big difference !).s >-G > If you know the memory layout of objects (eg: structure definitions), F > then it is not that difficult to call it from C. Sometimes, you have0 > to do some homework to build those structures. >tG > But remember that deep down, a computer running C++ code has the same : > instruction set as the same computer running C or basic.  E But can VMS' Linker cope with C++ code? If so, why is there a CXXLINKrE that comes with the C++ compiler? Is template instatiation really the  only reason?   cu,-   Martin -- eF                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deJF  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:32:48 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>T Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on  OpenVMS?+ Message-ID: <3D7E48E0.2050108@mail.tele.dk>a   JF Mezei wrote:e   > Arne Vajhj wrote:3 >>Even though in 95% of cases a C++ library is veryr9 >>easy to use in C, then Xerces may belong to the last 5%d5 >>because it is object oriented code not just code inf1 >>an object oriented language (big difference !).  > O > If you know the memory layout of objects (eg: structure definitions), then it * > is not that difficult to call it from C.    & And virtuals become function pointers.  2 And there are also memory management and exception	 handling.t  J >                                           Sometimes, you have to do some% > homework to build those structures.a    > If the code is sufficient object oriented it can become a very
 huge task.  G > But remember that deep down, a computer running C++ code has the samei: > instruction set as the same computer running C or basic.    8 You do not even have to go that low level. In many years8 the reference implementation of C++ cfront converted C++' to C and the used a C compiler on that.v   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:20:26 +0200e@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>S Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? ) Message-ID: <3D7E37EA.60001@mail.tele.dk>,   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  X > In article <6SEP200221344178@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:3 >>Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes...hh >>}In article <9281A6F48warrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>, wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) writes:M >>}> Thanks, but as you noted, this does not fit the bill.  Our code is in C.a >>} L >>}How does that affect anything ?  VMS allows calling C++ code from C code. >>L >>It is very hard to call anything in C++ if you do not have a C++ compiler. > . > You said the problem was "Our code is in C". > E > Had you said "We don't have a C++ compiler", that would have been ae > different statement.    3 Xerces was also my suggestion when Warren asked fore a XML library in C.w  5 But I am not so sure any longer. I have only used the 5 Java version of Xerces not the C++ version. But I canl imagine the problems.y  1 Even though in 95% of cases a C++ library is veryt7 easy to use in C, then Xerces may belong to the last 5%t3 because it is object oriented code not just code inZ/ an object oriented language (big difference !).i   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:20:35 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>rY Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenVS, Message-ID: <3D7E45F4.B23C2AD4@videotron.ca>   Arne Vajhj wrote:3 > Even though in 95% of cases a C++ library is very 9 > easy to use in C, then Xerces may belong to the last 5%t5 > because it is object oriented code not just code inp1 > an object oriented language (big difference !).r  M If you know the memory layout of objects (eg: structure definitions), then it G is not that difficult to call it from C. Sometimes, you have to do somei# homework to build those structures.t  E But remember that deep down, a computer running C++ code has the samev8 instruction set as the same computer running C or basic.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:51:14 -0400m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t  Subject: Xwindows help for DCL ?, Message-ID: <3D7E6939.B7469868@videotron.ca>  N Is there a way to use the GUI help facility of Xwindows to access the standard  VMS DCL help ?P   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.501 ************************ slowdown andm increasing competition."  H In the low-end, Sun is facing a threat from the Microsoft-Linux industryN standard server vendors, such as Dell, he told clients. The threat is startingN to creep up into the midrange Unix server market, wh                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        °    ð    İ    Ű    ư    ǰ    Ȱ    ɰ    ʰ    ˰    ̰    Ͱ    ΰ    ϰ    а    Ѱ    Ұ    Ӱ    ԰    հ    ְ    װ    ذ    ٰ    ڰ    ۰    ܰ    ݰ    ް    ߰    భ    ᰭ    Ⱝ    㰭    䰭    尭    氭    簭    谭    鰭    갭    밭    찭            ﰭ    𰭪    񰭪    򰭪    󰭪                                                                                         	    
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