1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 12 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 503       Contents: Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article+ Re: ??== System 7.3, ODS-5, Java, Rdb, etc. + Re: ??== System 7.3, ODS-5, Java, Rdb, etc. + Re: ??== System 7.3, ODS-5, Java, Rdb, etc. # Alpha VMS 7.3-1 CD labelling glitch ) Re: AlphaServer 1200 VMS Disk recognition 1 Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy 1 Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy  Re: auto-negotiate Backup /ALIAS  suggestion + Re: Burning an image with an unknown format + Re: Burning an image with an unknown format  RE: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: DEC AMDS VAX 7.3 bug8 Re: DECwindows X11 display server: creating visuals - Re Re: definition of SYS$SYSROOT  Deleting expired licenses 5 Re: disk sizes on VMS (was: RE: Convert Blocks to MB) 1 Re: Encompass - how long before I get a response? 1 Re: Encompass - how long before I get a response? 7 Re: Fabio Cardoso Enemy of the United States of America  FAQ comment  Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT@ Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"@ Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"P Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS  just yawnsP Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!P Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!8 Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns! Re: microvaxII Hardware B Power Outage leaves master shadow disk unusable, how do i recover?F Re: Power Outage leaves master shadow disk unusable, how do i recover?F Re: Power Outage leaves master shadow disk unusable, how do i recover?, Re: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? : still poor randomness of TCP/IP  sequence numbers in VMS ?> Re: still poor randomness of TCP/IP  sequence numbers in VMS ?2 Re: TCPIP NFS server and windows-NT / W2000 client Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast! A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on P Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenV Whither my VAX...  Re: Whither my VAX...  Re: Whither my VAX...   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:37:54 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> Subject: Re: "inview" Article + Message-ID: <3D7F8D82.2080809@mail.tele.dk>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  5 > Apache is free its a well thought of Web server and 3 > if you have a box running Solaris you even get it  > supported and free from Sun.   Ah - this is expert FUD !   , Because it is factual true - I have no doubt% that SUN supplies Apache for Solaris.   . But at the same time you manage to give people/ the impression that other vendors do not. Which / you ofcourse know are not true. Probably almost 1 every OS vendor except Microsoft supports Apache.    Arne   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:18:10 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)  Subject: Re: "inview" Article + Message-ID: <alo1d1$fo2$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>    In article <alns35$121$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  >David Webb wrote: >> In article <al7tk6$p8u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:  >>   >>>  >>>JF Mezei wrote: >>>  >>> , >>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>>> >>>  >>>  >>>SIMS was Sun's IMAP server. >>>  >>  4 >> SIMS was as you well know not SUN's IMAP server. D >> SIMS was an OEMd version of the PMDF MTA with various Sun addons.I >> You'll find our previous discussions on this topic archived on google.  >>   > < >This statement is rather like saying that the Ford explorer: >isn't really a Ford, instead its a Goodyear because thats# >what connects the car to the road.  > < >A mail server contains a number of components, MTA, Message7 >store etc. PMDF was part of SIMS but SIMS wasn't PMDF.  >  >Regards >Andrew Harrison >   = If you KNOW THAT then WHY THE HELL did you say that SIMS was   SUN's IMAP SERVER !!!!      ' Note. I did not say that SIMS was PMDF  
 only that   D  "SIMS was an OEMd version of the PMDF MTA with various Sun addons."  + The message store etc are those SUN addons.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:39:46 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> Subject: Re: "inview" Article + Message-ID: <3D7F8DF2.6080908@mail.tele.dk>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > David Webb wrote: E >> SIMS was as you well know not SUN's IMAP server. SIMS was an OEMd  3 >> version of the PMDF MTA with various Sun addons. I >> You'll find our previous discussions on this topic archived on google.  > = > This statement is rather like saying that the Ford explorer ; > isn't really a Ford, instead its a Goodyear because thats $ > what connects the car to the road. > = > A mail server contains a number of components, MTA, Message 8 > store etc. PMDF was part of SIMS but SIMS wasn't PMDF.   Some very general remarks.  , Why not be specific and explain exactly what+ parts of SIMS was PMDF and which were not ?   . And then let us decide whether SUN are Ford or
 Goodyear !   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:05:22 GMT $ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU4 Subject: Re: ??== System 7.3, ODS-5, Java, Rdb, etc.8 Message-ID: <00A13D1C.59B9A52E@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  m In article <%cIf9.18$LI5.386160@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes: t >In article <aus-1109021513290001@wvia20.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus) writes:. >>Should I initialize my OVMS 7.3 system disk % >(and all the others) as ODS-5 disks?  > . >ODS-5 is not supported for V7.3 system disks. > - >ODS-5 IS supported for V7.3-1 system disks.   > J >My personal feeling is that unless you need or want the features providedL >by ODS-5, then you should stay with ODS-2, at least in V7.3.  Although mostH >OpenVMS software can at least tolerate ODS-5, so long as the file namesI >stay within ODS-2 constraings, there are things that will NOT work right  >with [some] ODS-5 file names. > B >Another way of saying this is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" > A >On the other hand, if you DO need or want ODS-5, then go for it.   L And I must add here that until the current problem I'm working via CSC (justM elevated to Engineering) is resolved, you shouldn't use ODS-5 on any disk you & expect to do /INCREMENTAL restores to.  L (No kidding - in 7.2-1, 7.2-2, and 7.3 (don't have 7.3-1 to try) incrementalO restore appears not to even know about ODS-5, aborts if it hits a filename with L characters that are illegal in ODS-2, and fairly reliably deletes files with* lowercase names that it shouldn't delete.)   -- Alan    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2002 02:18:34 GMT/ From: Hans Bachner <Hans.Bachner@altavista.net> 4 Subject: Re: ??== System 7.3, ODS-5, Java, Rdb, etc.* Message-ID: <Xns92872BCCE6A7Fhbc@10.0.0.3>  - Hans M. Aus (aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de) wrote:   E > Should I initialize my OVMS 7.3 system disk (and all the others) as  > ODS-5 disks?   > F > My objective is to migrate our current DB application to the new web  > services in Rdb 7.1 and Java.  <snip> > H > Are there any reasons why I shouldn't just initialize all the disks on > the Alpha 400 as ODS-5 disks?   G For Java applications (and NetBeans, which is a Java application), you  I definitely want ODS-5 disks. This does, however, not necessarily include  F the system disk. As others already have stated, OpenVMS V7.3 does not E support ODS-5 on the system disk (yet). Why not go to V7.3-1 instead?   L Having said that, my workstation has been running V7.3 from an ODS-5 system L disk for more than a year now, with only minor glitches (e.g. when adding a I new satellite root, some directories are created with lower case letters  L but expected to be upper case later on), which can be worked around. Always K set the parse style to "traditional" for system management activities like  F the above, or (most) software installations (Pathworks comes to mind).  K If you run into problems and need (official) support, you probably will be  H told that you run an unsupported configuration. So if there's no really H good reason for V7.3, go to V7.3-1 - or keep the system disk ODS-2. You F always can initialize the other disk(s) as ODS-5 and install NetBeans  there.   Hope this helps, --  5 -------------- speaking only for myself ------------- 5 Hans Bachner              E-Mail: Hans.Bachner@hp.com & HP Services / Consulting & Integration Compaq Computer Austria  a subsidiary of the new HP   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:39:57 +0200 3 From: "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> 4 Subject: Re: ??== System 7.3, ODS-5, Java, Rdb, etc.B Message-ID: <aus-848E13.07395712092002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>  * In article <Xns92872BCCE6A7Fhbc@10.0.0.3>,1  Hans Bachner <Hans.Bachner@altavista.net> wrote:  ...  So if there's no really J > good reason for V7.3, go to V7.3-1 - or keep the system disk ODS-2. You H > always can initialize the other disk(s) as ODS-5 and install NetBeans  > there. >  > Hope this helps,  ( Should I install Java on the ODS-5 also?  = I'm thinking about waiting for our V7.3-1 campus cd software  I distribution and have asked these questions on the Oracle Rdb listserver.   < Once again I sincerely appreciate the informative responses.   --  4 Hans Magnus Aus, Wuerzburg, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2002 15:15:26 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) , Subject: Alpha VMS 7.3-1 CD labelling glitch3 Message-ID: <gXCdRpJwE5pm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   = 	Having just peeled through 7.3-1 CDs would like to point out  	a glitch in CD labelling. 	 B 	If you look at the "Guide to OpenVMS Alpha Version 7.3-1 CD-ROMS"  	, on page 1-1 it lists the CDs:  7 	o  OpenVMS Alpha Version 7.3-1 Operating System CD-ROM 7 	o  ""          ""          ""  Layered Products CD-ROM ; 	o  ""          ""          ""  Documentation CD-ROM 1 of 2 ; 	o  ""          ""          ""  Documentation CD-ROM 2 of 2      	etc.   < 	However, if you look at the CDs the Layered Products CD-ROM 	says:   	Disk 1 of 2  - 	and yet there is only 1 Layered Products CD.   C 	The glitch appears to be that the Layered Products CD is mislabled  	as there is only one.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:12:02 -0400 6 From: "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>2 Subject: Re: AlphaServer 1200 VMS Disk recognition* Message-ID: <alnth6$loo$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Brandon wrote:F > Richard, Thanks for your insight.  I looked into this more, it turnsG > out that they purchased a RAID controller when they should have got a @ > KZPZA (this was many years ago).  They set it up to run JBOD. C > Apparently, they set it up to only recognize up to ~20Gb (9.1Gb + G > 5[2.1Gb] = 20Gb).  Because, every time I add anything larger than a 2 G > gig, it won't let it go above 20Gb.  Is there a way I can change that G > to allow it to recognize more?  The client does not want to spend any ( > more money on this box.  Thanks again, >  > Brandon Long  I I am assuming that you have a raid controller known as a SWXCR, of which  F there was a EISA variant and two PCI variants.  (KZPSA, KZPCA, KZPAC)?  B As I remember that family of Raid Controllers, there were several  limitations.  7 1. A Maximum of 8 volumes can be presented to the host.   < 2. You can have a maximum of 8 disks in a raidset or a jbod.  B 3. The Maximum size of a volume created of a raid set or jbod was B limited to a little bit less than 32GB.  The GUI allowed creating G slightly larger partitions, but then tended to lock up when you did the  required initialization step.   H It has been quite a while since I used those devices, and I do not have F a manual handy.  And my memory could be off on a few details, I would C recommend finding the manual or real specifications for the device.   D I think that you also have to use the SWXCR management utility when - making any changes to the disk configuration.      -John ! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:35:58 -0600 0 From: "Dale Coy" <dalecoy@obfuscation.spinn.net>: Subject: Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy/ Message-ID: <unvobh2enk5gcd@corp.supernews.com>   & Thanks.  It's the thought that counts.  J ...but please think about forwarding my petition request to someone(s) you know who *IS* a voting member.    > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message' news:6jExEOOJaWnS@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.... - > In article <alla18$2s1$1@pith.uoregon.edu>, 9 >      "Dale Coy" <dalecoy@obfuscation.spinn.net> writes:  > @ > > Those not slated by that process may try to petition for the? > > privilege of being a candidate.  It takes 15% of the number D > > who voted in the last election.  In this case, since 286 membersA > > voted last year, 43 petition signatures are required to allow  > > me to run this year. > > : >    I'd send one in, but I'm only an associate member and# > we're not allowed to vote. Sorry.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:52:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> : Subject: Re: Assistance Solicited - Petition for Candidacy, Message-ID: <3D7FF354.2851E4AD@videotron.ca>   Dale Coy wrote: L > ...but please think about forwarding my petition request to someone(s) you  > know who *IS* a voting member.  J If the DECUS (or whatever its name is this week) organisation  denies yourM right to run for office unless you can get x% of the membership (where X is a L significant number), I would think that the onus would be on them to provideN you with a membership list so that you could contact sufficient members to get the desired support.  N I would have expected such an organisation to have rules that required a fixedM number of signatures to support a candidacy, (such as 25 or 100) instead of a  percentage of membership.    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2002 20:43:23 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: auto-negotiate * Message-ID: <alo9tb$n8p$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  ] In article <all474$ia4$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>, "Hamid Bourchi" <hbourchi@hotmail.com> writes:   3 :How can i make sure that my network cart is set on 7 :auto-negotiate? Without rebooting my system of course.  :I couldn't find it in LANCP.   B   Which specific network card do you have?  Which OpenVMS version?  D   I don't know of a way to (easily) acquire the current SRM console @   environment variable EW*MODE setting; to determine the current#   console auto-negotiation setting.   G   As for other things to check, look in the LAN_FLAGS system parameter. I   If bit 5 is set, then the auto-negotiation support is disabled.  Within G   LANCP, a display that is buried in SHOW DEVICE/INTERNAL_COUNTERS will I   tell you what the associated console-level message was.  These displays H   will tell you the current device setting, but not how it was achieved.  E   f$getenv is limited in the console enviroment variables that can be    retrieved.  G   To force autonegotiation, use LANCP command SET DEVICE/AUTONEGOTIATE. D   This command has been around for a while, and is documented in the   OpenVMS V7.3-1 HELP files.  G   AFAIK, there is no way to do what you want short of some undocumented H   and unsupported (and non-trivial) user-written kernel-mode code.  (TheG   obvious extension here would be an enhancement to $getenv to allow it H   to retrieve an arbitrary console variable, probably by variable name.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:25:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> " Subject: Backup /ALIAS  suggestion, Message-ID: <3D7F8A87.CB5DFB62@videotron.ca>  L the VMS help (VAX VMS 7.2) for BACKUP/ALIAS isn't entirely clear (neither is the FAQ text for that matter)   J Refering to the "previous behaviour" doesn't help defining what /ALIAS and
 /NOLIAS does.   * And "alias file processing" is also vague.  M When you look at the help text for SET FILE /BACKUP, that behaviour is clear: K /NOBACKUP means that file atrributes are preserved but contents discarded.    L I would suggest that the BACKUP /ALIAS /NOALIAS help text be updated to haveN text that clearly spells out what it does in terms of the alias file entry and aliasn file contents.   E I.E. confirm that with /NOALIAS, the alias entries are backed up abnd K recreated, but only the contents of "real" files is backed-up and restored.   M And confirm that with /ALIAS, both the alias entry and contents are copied to N the save set, and what happens during a restore operation. Is the former aliasK entry recreated as a standalone file not connected with the original, or is M the alias created as an alias and the contents in the saveset ignored because # the alias points to the real file ?   K Now, explanations should be made when you backup only a directory structure J which may contain an alias entry pointing to a file stored outside of thatG directrory. Will its contents be "lost" if /NOALIAS is specified ? What L happens if the file entry is restored, but the original file to which it was pointing to no longer exists ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:23:06 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 4 Subject: Re: Burning an image with an unknown format' Message-ID: <3D7FFFFE.6EA2723C@fsi.net>    issinoho wrote:  > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D7E2226.8B3068FC@fsi.net>... > > issinoho wrote:  > > > $ > > > The same thing happened to me. > > > J > > > Firstly, you can verify the image is a good one by either booting itC > > > up on the Simh VAX simulator, or (quicker & dirtier) download H > > > ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/ods2.zip and use it toK > > > mount the CD on you W2k box (note: you MUST have a working ASPI layer J > > > to use this program). You can even copy files from the CD to your PC > > > hard drive!  > > D > > Given that WhineBloze does not provide RMS, however, I'd have toK > > question the value of that. Being able to understand the filesystem (no L > > space between the words) is one thing. Being able to understand the file@ > > system (space between the words) is something else entirely. > D > It's actually *VERY* valuable in some cases where a DEC box is notH > available, and the program in my experience understands the filesystem0 > perfectly. Have you  any reason to doubt this?  H Yes - show me a WhineBloze program that can process an RMS indexed file,( or even an RMS sequential/variable file.  
 As I said:  D > > Given that WhineBloze does not provide RMS, however, I'd have toK > > question the value of that. Being able to understand the filesystem (no L > > space between the words) is one thing. Being able to understand the file@ > > system (space between the words) is something else entirely.   Are there any other questions?   > > K > > > Next, what kind of external CD-ROM do you have? In my experience, you D > > > really need a DEC drive for things to work smoothly. I have anG > > > external SONY CDU-8012 single speed which works just fine (and is J > > > recognised correctly) when VMS is actually up and running, but won'tJ > > > boot the CD from the chevrons (lots of horrible sense errors and theL > > > DK driver crashes). I bought an old DEC RRD42 and Whoosh! straight in. > > I > > As Larry K. pointed out, you need a CD-ROM that can transfer 512 byte K > > blocks. Check yours for jumpers. A simple adjustment may be all that is 
 > > required.  > G > Yes, I think the 512 byte block condition has been well documented in H > this group before; however, what is not so well documented is the factB > that the DK boot driver is *FAR* more sensitive than the runtime@ > driver and will happily choke on many drives, even if they areE > configured for 512 bytes. My previously stated example is a case in H > point. Yes, check you have a 512 byte drive, but be warned - that does > not guarantee success!  H Agreed. The one correction I would make is that the boot-time primitivesG are far less discriminating, as evidenced by the fact that you can boot G up far enough to have it hang from a device that the more sophisticated ) and discriminating drivers will choke on.   H Many non-DEC-badged CD-ROM drives will work, most notably Toshiba drives5 that closely resemble their DEC-badged counter-parts.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2002 17:32:07 -0700$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho)4 Subject: Re: Burning an image with an unknown format= Message-ID: <d0141774.0209111632.3133a2c1@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D7E2226.8B3068FC@fsi.net>... > issinoho wrote:  > > " > > The same thing happened to me. > > H > > Firstly, you can verify the image is a good one by either booting itA > > up on the Simh VAX simulator, or (quicker & dirtier) download F > > ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/ods2.zip and use it toI > > mount the CD on you W2k box (note: you MUST have a working ASPI layer H > > to use this program). You can even copy files from the CD to your PC > > hard drive!  > B > Given that WhineBloze does not provide RMS, however, I'd have toI > question the value of that. Being able to understand the filesystem (no J > space between the words) is one thing. Being able to understand the file> > system (space between the words) is something else entirely.  B It's actually *VERY* valuable in some cases where a DEC box is notF available, and the program in my experience understands the filesystem. perfectly. Have you  any reason to doubt this?   > I > > Next, what kind of external CD-ROM do you have? In my experience, you B > > really need a DEC drive for things to work smoothly. I have anE > > external SONY CDU-8012 single speed which works just fine (and is H > > recognised correctly) when VMS is actually up and running, but won'tH > > boot the CD from the chevrons (lots of horrible sense errors and theJ > > DK driver crashes). I bought an old DEC RRD42 and Whoosh! straight in. > G > As Larry K. pointed out, you need a CD-ROM that can transfer 512 byte I > blocks. Check yours for jumpers. A simple adjustment may be all that is  > required.   E Yes, I think the 512 byte block condition has been well documented in F this group before; however, what is not so well documented is the fact@ that the DK boot driver is *FAR* more sensitive than the runtime> driver and will happily choke on many drives, even if they areC configured for 512 bytes. My previously stated example is a case in F point. Yes, check you have a 512 byte drive, but be warned - that does not guarantee success!   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2002 19:31:02 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: RE: Convert Blocks to MB * Message-ID: <alo5lm$n8p$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D506B868@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes: H :I think you're being a bit to pedantic - the intent was probably so youI :could look at a "show device" listing and say - "ok that's a 4 Gig disk, K :that's a 10 Gig disk, this disk has 1 Gig free" etc.  If not, I apologize. / :If the intent was to write a program to do it   :1 - yes you are right' :2 - there are plenty of them out there     D   This topic was previously already entered into the FAQ.  If anyoneB   here has something to add to the contents of the FAQ coverage of!   this topic, please let me know.      :-----Original Message----- 8 :From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net] = :A megabyte is a megabyte is a megabyte is a megabyte is a...   @   No, it's not.  There are (at least) two quite different values>   for what is called a "megabyte".  Again, please see the FAQ.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2002 19:58:04 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB < Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0209111858.fe0dabc@posting.google.com>  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D7E2896.C93618B9@fsi.net>...! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > > _ > > In article <3D7D4ADD.45E7B55D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: E > > > "Approximation" in this case means "error". The difference *IS*  > > > significant! > > , > > No.  That statement is false in general. > B > Some commercial aircraft are capable of being flown to a landingJ > entirely on automation (or so I am told, I've been out of aviation sinceJ > the early 90's). Given that, if a plane leaves New York for Honolulu andI > the inertial guidance system commits an aggregate error of 3% en route, G > instead of landing in Honolulu, I should think that one would need to J > remember that one's seat cushion can also be used as a flotation device.    + That's why they have pilots and navigators.    Context matters.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:00:34 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB ' Message-ID: <3D7FFAB8.E20A48A6@fsi.net>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > ] > In article <3D7E2896.C93618B9@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: # > > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > >>` > >> In article <3D7D4ADD.45E7B55D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:F > >> > "Approximation" in this case means "error". The difference *IS* > >> > significant!  > >>- > >> No.  That statement is false in general.  > > D > > Some commercial aircraft are capable of being flown to a landingL > > entirely on automation (or so I am told, I've been out of aviation sinceL > > the early 90's). Given that, if a plane leaves New York for Honolulu andK > > the inertial guidance system commits an aggregate error of 3% en route, I > > instead of landing in Honolulu, I should think that one would need to L > > remember that one's seat cushion can also be used as a flotation device. > ( > And your point would be what, exactly? > I > That 3% in some cases counts as a grossly unacceptable margin of error?  > ; > That's true and nobody has been arguing with you about it   + Did you read Carl P.'s latest contribution?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:08:12 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB ' Message-ID: <3D7FFC7E.CB3A8E42@fsi.net>    Carl Perkins wrote:  > 7 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes... " > }briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > }>` > }> In article <3D7D4ADD.45E7B55D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:F > }> > "Approximation" in this case means "error". The difference *IS* > }> > significant!  > }>- > }> No.  That statement is false in general.  > } C > }Some commercial aircraft are capable of being flown to a landing K > }entirely on automation (or so I am told, I've been out of aviation since K > }the early 90's). Given that, if a plane leaves New York for Honolulu and J > }the inertial guidance system commits an aggregate error of 3% en route,H > }instead of landing in Honolulu, I should think that one would need toK > }remember that one's seat cushion can also be used as a flotation device.  > }  > }--  > }David J. Dachtera > I > Any person who is not a moron knows that flying aircraft and estimating ? > the size of something on a disk drive are not the same thing.   
 Obviously.  H > Reread the subject line. What do aircraft have to to with this thread?   Ever heard of a "sub-thread"?   G In this case, the issue is: is 3% an acceptable margin of error or not. F Various have been asserting yes, I've been disagreeing. The above was  the latest example.   < Call it: Lesson #5, Usenet 210 (1st semester) if you like...  F At work, we're developing (or trying to - new sub-thread danger here!)E an enterprise backup strategy. I've been asked to assess the existing E systems and fill in a questionnaire. To provide meaningful numbers, I A can tolerate no more than a 0.1% error since in our case, 0.1% is D roughly 4 GB - 4 RZ26s (approx.), 2 RZ28s or one(1) RZ29. Most folksD would consider 0.1% less than negligible. (Yes, you read that right:= "less than negligible", as in "not worthy of consideration".)    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:16:55 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB ' Message-ID: <3D7FFE8C.7D064426@fsi.net>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >  > In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D506B868@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes: J > :I think you're being a bit to pedantic - the intent was probably so youK > :could look at a "show device" listing and say - "ok that's a 4 Gig disk, M > :that's a 10 Gig disk, this disk has 1 Gig free" etc.  If not, I apologize. 0 > :If the intent was to write a program to do it > :1 - yes you are right) > :2 - there are plenty of them out there  > F >   This topic was previously already entered into the FAQ.  If anyoneD >   here has something to add to the contents of the FAQ coverage of# >   this topic, please let me know.  >  > :-----Original Message----- 9 > :From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net] ? > :A megabyte is a megabyte is a megabyte is a megabyte is a...  > B >   No, it's not.  There are (at least) two quite different values@ >   for what is called a "megabyte".  Again, please see the FAQ.  E Hhmmm... Dunno, guy. Multiples of 1024 are the only ones I can get to ! fall on powers of two boundaries:    DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = 1024  DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym a 0   A = 1024   Hex = 00000400  Octal = 00000002000 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = 1000  DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym a 0   A = 1000   Hex = 000003E8  Octal = 00000001750" DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = 1024 * 1000 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym a 3   A = 1024000   Hex = 000FA000  Octal = 00003720000 " DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = 1024 * 1024 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym a 3   A = 1048576   Hex = 00100000  Octal = 00004000000 ) DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = 1024 * 1000 * 1000  DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym a 6   A = 1024000000   Hex = 3D090000  Octal = 07502200000) DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = 1024 * 1024 * 1024  DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym a 6   A = 1073741824   Hex = 40000000  Octal = 10000000000  F Admittedly, numbers are not my strongest suit. What am I missing here?$ Is there some secret that eludes me?  H If I try to write 1GB (1024^3 bytes) of data onto a "1GB" (1024 * 1000^2. bytes) disk, it won't fit no matter what I do.  * What's the secret? What am I missing here?   --   David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:08:10 GMTe4 From: "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@Compaq.Com>! Subject: Re: DEC AMDS VAX 7.3 bugt2 Message-ID: <uwMf9.51$tT5.645226@news.cpqcorp.net>  J Is the V7.3 system you are trying to monitor the Vaxstation or another vax node running V7.3?   Barry Kiersteine  - "Manser" <nmanser@progis.de> wrote in messagec7 news:2178d61f.0209110945.6d36a00a@posting.google.com...  > Hi vms folks,s > C >  I have installed on my vaxstation (vms 7.3)  4000-60 decamds 7.3  >  data analyser.e >  the installation went fine.@ >  but when i started the data analyser the node with vaxvms 7.3: >  doesn't appear,all the nodes with other versions appear >e- >  in the logfile i got the following messageI >AI >  Copyright (c) 1995 Digital Equipment Corporation. All rights reserved.TH >  %AMDS-W-BADPARAM, bad parameter for program RMCONFIG request for node	 >  URANUSO2 >  %TRACE-W-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsE >  module name     routine name                     line       rel PC 	 >  abs PCe >nF >  COMM_UTILITY    AMDS$CheckIosbStatus            65614      000003D1 >  000538D5rF >  COMM_UTILITY    ConfigDone                      66093      0000008E >  00053E6EhF >  ECL_ROUTINES    ecl$send                        62633      0000015D >  00058E91!F >  COMM_UTILITY    greetings                       66900      000003A4 >  0005476C F >  DECAMDS         rcv_from_comm                   62738      00000196 >  000511D6 F >  DECAMDS         AMDS$check_message              62597      00000010 >  00051020NE >                                                            001B095Cs >  001B095CsE >                                                            001B0C2Be >  001B0C2BrE >                                                            001AFFC5d >  001AFFC5 E >                                                            001AFFA1e >  001AFFA1tF >  DECAMDS         main                            61972      000008CC >  00050644  >s* >  i have no service contract with compaq.) >  have anyone experienced this problem ?e >  is there a patch available ?d >  thanks in advance >e >  Nazim Mansera   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:08:19 +0200e' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> A Subject: Re: DECwindows X11 display server: creating visuals - Re-( Message-ID: <3D7FBED3.4B96D813@spam.not>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  A > Brass Christof wrote in message <3D7F46A0.E451E5D8@spam.not>...j > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:   I > >XANIM does what I think has to be done. It calls XMatchVisualInfo withaG > >an appropriate mask and value set and processes the list of visuals.fE > >It then selects the visual with the maximum depth and amongst themf% > >the visual with the maximum class.  > >aI > >I'm not sure whether I understand "instead of trying to use the depthsrA > >supported by the screen (which may only be valid for pixmaps)"i
 > >correctly.e > >  > K > The implication I got from you was that you were selecting depth from the G > reported screen formats, instead of from the visuals.  A screen might-M > support a 1-bit pixmap depth (in fact it always does), but probably doesn't.$ > support a window with 1-bit depth.  # Thanks, this was the missing piece!q  F I erroneously concluded that I should be able to create a window with D every depth which is supported on the screen. I should now conclude 6 that I can use pixmaps of all of the supported depths.    H > See above.  You can only create a window with a depth in the supportedN > visual list.  The other screen depths "should" be available for Pixmaps.  OfN > course, I have also seen many servers that report screen depths that are notM > supported at all - since 99% of things never look at the supported depths -s8 > nothing usually fails - it's sloppy server DDX coding.   :-]v  B I'm in a process to fully understand or at least to not implement C something that only runs under certain conditions. I have to admit yB that it is not easiest task so far. X11 visuals and pixmaps are a  bit complex.  G > >The third parameter of XCreateColormap is a Visual which has a fielduG > >"bits_per_rgb". The XGetVisualInfo and XMatchVisualInfo routines useIE > >the XVisualInfo type which has a member "depth" which has the sameT( > >meaning as "at all at "bits_per_rgb". > >  > M > bits_per_rgb isn't the same as depth.  It tells you how big the fields are. 5 > There are also masks that tells you where they are.u  C Yes, of course. The masks for each of the colors define which part i$ of the value belongs to which color.  A > >I set now "bits_per_rgb" before calling XCreateColormap but it,C > >doesn't change anything. I still get BadMatch (invalid parameterrC > >attributes) when I create the window with a different depth than G > >the one associated with the Visual parameter supplied with the call.t> > >Setting a field within the structure Visual directly wasn't= > >anyway what I expected to be good programming practice ;-)w > >a > K > This is your fundamental problem.  The visual you use specifies the pixeldI > depth of the window.  You can't create a window with a depth that isn'to > found in the visual list.i   Understood.o  K > Remember - only a handful of adapters actually support simultanious pixel H > depths.  The TGA2 for example, and most of the 3D adapters.  This is aM > RAMDAC feature that isn't present in commodity cards - like the ELSA or theiJ > VX1, or even the Radeon.  So if you search through the visuals and don'tN > find the depth you want, you are not going to be able to create a window for
 > that depth.-   Learnt.a  M > Nope.  X11 isn't very good at telling you exactly what was wrong, but the X:M > Window System book (which is the spec) will tell you what things will causeR > a bad match for the call.a   :-)<  8 Last question: why the depth parameter in XCreateWindow?  M > Yes/No.  I seldom use it anymore, but since I use it for things like this -vK > it becomes the bit bucket for 20-30 spam mails a day.  If I recognize the>L > name in the mail, I usually respond - but I end up doing mass deletes on aN > regular basis.  I also have a tendency to file things in a todo bucket thereL > on occasion when I'm busy - but frequently it becomes a write only bucket.L > I don't recall offhand seeing it, so it may have ended up being deleted as > spam.i  : Has the problem with the killing color wheel program been > confirmed or even solved? The problem was that on a TrueColor 5 default visual pressing MB1 to let the colors change s; immediately blacked out the screen. I didn't find a way to I+ revive the screen other than rebooting VMS.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2002 14:11:17 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)& Subject: Re: definition of SYS$SYSROOT= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0209111311.65bced39@posting.google.com>x  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KMDN7EG8GQ9QVJI2@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>... [...]oI > > To sum it up, the answer at first glance appears to be the ability tot& > > use a sequence like the following: > > 1 > > $ UAF = f$parse ("SYSUAF", "SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT")' > > $ OPEN UAF 'UAF' > > H > > This would fail if SYS$SYSROOT = SYS$SPECIFIC,SYS$COMMON with SYSUAFG > > present only in SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]. So this seems to be a trick to-$ > > get F$PARSE to work "correctly". > & > Interesting.  Some food for thought: >  [...]e9 > $ define sys$sysroot sys$specific/tran=conce,sys$commont' > $ wso f$parse("x","sys$system:*.exe")  >  > $ deassign sys$sysroot /proceg > G > Note: that's not a cut-and-paste mistake, but rather the result is ana > empty string.  > ) > Who can explain the above step by step?i    D You forgot the trailing colons on the equivalence names! If you omitC them, F$PARSE gives you a null string probably due to syntax error.y Example:  ( $ DEFINE AEF$SYSTEM AEF$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]8 $ DEFINE AEF$SYSROOT SYS$SPECIFIC:/TRAN=CONC,SYS$COMMON:# $ EV F$PARSE("X","AEF$SYSTEM:.EXE")- AEF$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]X.EXE;  ( ! Works fine with the colon (see above).- ! Doesn't work without the colon (see below).o  7 $ DEFINE AEF$SYSROOT SYS$SPECIFIC/TRAN=CONC,SYS$COMMON:yC %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AEF$SYSROOT has been supersededo# $ EV F$PARSE("X","AEF$SYSTEM:.EXE")e    $u  2 [EV :== WRITE SYS$OUTPUT  ! (Short for evaluate) ]    E NB: When using the DEFINE command: For any equivalence name that is aeC logical name that translates to a file-spec (or any portion thereofPE except when it translates to *just* the NAME portion), ALWAYS include)E a trailing colon. Think of the trailing colon as a way of telling thei@ system that this equivalence name is not the "NAME" portion of a file-spec. You wouldn't do  / $ DEFINE DISK1 DKA100        !!! Bad syntax !!!k   so similarly you shouldn't do   / $ DEFINE DIR1 SYS$SPECIFIC   !!! Bad syntax !!!s    I > > Of course no one mentioned why this is not a problem when you try theBD > > same trick with a file located only in the SYS$MANAGER "part" of > > SYS$STARTUP! > . > Well, that definition looks a bit different: >  > $ sh log sys$startup/fu:J >    "SYS$STARTUP" [exec] = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >         = "SYS$MANAGER",E > 1  "SYS$MANAGER" [exec] = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)w    > Exactly my point! Using F$PARSE with SYS$STARTUP will give you; SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP] which will not match any files in'B SYS$MANAGER. More specifically, my question is: why wassn't *this*F considered to be a problem? I suspect that "fixing" this was not worth the trouble.    A > > And this still doesn't explain why it can't be something liket > >  > > $ SLF AEF$SYSROOTg: > >    "AEF$SYSROOT" [super] = "SYS$SPECIFIC:" [concealed] > > (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  > >         = "SYS$COMMON:"iB > > 1  "SYS$SPECIFIC" [exec] = "DSA0:[SYS0.]" [concealed,terminal] > > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)J > > 1  "SYS$COMMON" [exec] = "DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.]" [concealed,terminal] > > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > > B > > which would still yield the confusing SYS$SYSROOT in DIRECTORYH > > displays but the F$PARSE usage shown above wouldn't be a problem and> > > at least you'd see SYS$SPECIFIC when running SHOW LOGICAL. > ' > See the example above.  Empty string.     B See above. You *must* use the trailing colon for cases like these!	 Always!!!1    D > > Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that SYS$SYSROOT isJ > > defined very early in the boot process, before DCL is available to runD > > STARTUP.COM. Maybe iterative translation isn't available at thatJ > > point, but then one could re-DEFINE it later. Anyway, still a bit of a > > mystery. > J > Surely some VMS engineer must know the answer here.  There doesn't seem I > to be any info on this in the "Internals and Data Structures" book.  I    > don't know where else to look.    * I've been wondering about this for years.     I > > Well, John Briggs commented on this to which I would add that it also@F > > allows the possibility of multiple common roots on the same systemI > > disk. You could use SET FILE/ENTER to enter different common roots as,= > > SYSCOMMON.DIR's in different [SYS%]'s. I vaguely remember I > > mixed-architecture disks would have a VAX common and a separate ALPHAZE > > common, but upon looking for such references I mostly found poststI > > about why that's a bad idea (to have mixed-architecture disks, i.e.).G > K > Points taken, but somehow I doubt that that is the reason for the way it gH > was implemented as it is.  Current use doesn't say anything about the G > origin of a structure, as evolutionary biologists are used to saying.x    3 Well, I didn't say it was the original motivation. t  C And don't forget trailing colons for logical names that are used asI/ file-spec equivalence names in DEFINE commands!K     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanR   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 03:47:23 GMTo- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>c" Subject: Deleting expired licenses: Message-ID: <f7Uf9.1016$Zi.380202@news1.news.adelphia.net>  H After the last power failure a few months back, it became apparent that G the boot time of my MicroVAX and my Multia were suffering from all the p- old hobby licenses that have expired on them.p  G So I finaly got around to cleaning them up with this command procedure v! that I wrote a little while back.c  7 It makes a backup of the license database just in case.h  ? The procedure will delete all expired licenses from a database.u  ; Just in case anyone else needs to do some cleanup it is at:y  6 http://encompasserve.org/~malmberg/dcl/lmf_cleanup.txt  1 The usual disclaimers:  No warrantee, No support.   G I named it as .txt to accomodate non-compliant web browsers, rename to r .com for easier using.   -Johno wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyi   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:29:26 GMTc1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.> Subject: Re: disk sizes on VMS (was: RE: Convert Blocks to MB)' Message-ID: <3D80017D.42CB38A5@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > ] > In article <3D7E3BE2.A2926AB0@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e > >a: > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$getdvi( "drive", "maxblock" )1 > > %SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device availablet > >  \drive\ > >m > C >    Dave, you forgot the :-).  Or did you leave something at home?   - I'd forget my head, but my wife won't let me!c   -- I David J. Dachtera2 dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:25:28 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-: Subject: Re: Encompass - how long before I get a response?' Message-ID: <3D80008F.3695045E@fsi.net>R   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:i > < > "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message9 > news:9059bf6b.0209100635.3e22fc91@posting.google.com...m@ > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message, > news:<Itcf9.370194$me6.42316@sccrnsc01>...6 > > > "NetBoot" <netboot@netboot.com> wrote in message5 > > > news:MPG.17e2da227616fe5a98971b@news.ptd.net...iI > > > > I've signed up for Encompass Tuesday.  How does it take to get anp0 > > > > account and what should I do if I don't? > > >aG > > > I would join INTEREX. Thirty bucks a year AND you get a magazine!e > >h! > > I have not seen the magazine.  > >r > > The website has: > >tH > > "Interex, the International Association of Hewlett-Packard ComputingJ > > Professionals, is an independent, not-for-profit association providingI > > information, education, and advocacy services to members all over thea > > world."  > >sC > > Will they compete for membership with Encompass by covering DECyH > > specific information or will Interex leave the DEC specific stuff to > > Encompass? > > J > > I do not see a need to be in both for OpenVMS.  One or the other would% > > be preferrable.  Will they merge?  > N > Even as an Encompass BoD member, I haven't a clue. I note with interest that# > INTEREX has a VMS page, though...    ...and the URL is... ?  @ (I'd assume one might try "http://www.interex.org/", but without; Yahoo-ing or Google-ing it first, that's a guess, at best.)e   -- k David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:08:43 -0700t& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>: Subject: Re: Encompass - how long before I get a response?/ Message-ID: <uo04q044mepi52@corp.supernews.com>t   David J. Dachtera wrote: > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:. > N >>Even as an Encompass BoD member, I haven't a clue. I note with interest that# >>INTEREX has a VMS page, though...  >  >  > ...and the URL is... ? > B > (I'd assume one might try "http://www.interex.org/", but without= > Yahoo-ing or Google-ing it first, that's a guess, at best.)s >   / http://www.interex.org/tech/openvms/portal.html    -- u
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:58:01 +1200e From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>-@ Subject: Re: Fabio Cardoso Enemy of the United States of America3 Message-ID: <KTPf9.5573$Y3.1134149@news.xtra.co.nz>.  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:zbiMs6rbjA+o@eisner.encompasserve.org...eK > In article <wqCf9.5387$Y3.1071654@news.xtra.co.nz>, "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>- writes:-  B > > Hmmm, I'm still trying to figure out if DFW = "Dead From Work" > > or BOS = "Beaten On Sight" > >c  4 Guys, can't you see the implied smiley in the above?. I've never expected to get such a response :-)   >B2 > Well... from context , he is flying to and from. >e > The DFW is Dallas Fort Worth > BOS = Boston.    > Ontario  Airport Codes >g > Hamilton YHM > London YXU > Ottawa YOW > Sault Ste Marie YAMa
 > Sudbury YSBh > Thunder Bay YQTh > Toronto (Island) YTZ' > Toronto (Lester B. Pearson Int'l) YYZU
 > Windsor YQGl >t > Robs >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:32:48 -0400I- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: FAQ comment, Message-ID: <3D7F8C47.CD025A87@videotron.ca>  D Used FETCH_HTTP to get the decw$book version of the VMS FAQ from the7 www.openvms.compaq.com web site.  (saves ita s binary).o  5 The file is being served as application/octet-stream.   I I tried both binary or non binary modes for fetch_http, and also used sethK file/attrib to force variable length or fixed length 512, and in all cases, % the bookreader application generates:t   Error opening book Title: unknown/ File: usrdir:[jfmezei.psion3]vmsfaq.decw$book;1 % Reason: Error reading field in record   K I tried ftp.openvms.org but that seems to contain only the freeware CDs ando  not the latest and greatest FAQ.  M has anyone succeeded in getting the decw$book version of the faq to work ? If D so, how was it downloaded from the VMS web site to your vms system ?   ( VAX VMS 7.2 here).   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:49:35 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>1% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTJ' Message-ID: <3D800633.31CD5415@fsi.net>j   Dirk Munk wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Dirk Munk wrote: > >C > >>David J. Dachtera wrote: > >> > >>>12:35 US CDTa > >>>yL > >>>U.S. Att'y Gen'l John Ashcroft just appeared on the air and stated thatJ > >>>the U.S. has been raised to a high alert level, level 2 of 5 (roughly > >>>equiv. to "DefCon 2").m > >>>aM > >>>He urges Americans around the world to stand alert, yet stand defiant in A > >>>the face of potential threats surrounding the anniversary ofs > >>>11-Sep-2001.e > >>> H > >>>Likewise, I urge my colleagues in all countries around the world toL > >>>stand alert yet stand defiant in the face of potential threats by thoseM > >>>who seek to impose their views through terrorism, barbarism, attrocitiese- > >>>and other sins against God and humanity.t > >>S > >>Does this include not buying and using Windooz ? (sorry, could not resist :-) )B > >>T > >>On a more serious tone: let's not get hysterical please. I can understand the USR > >>being on high alert, but Armageddon is not going to happen (yet). Even if someQ > >>lunatic bearded idiots were capable of killing some 3000 people, this wil not.! > >>really affect our daily life.? > >e > >hA > > Well, we've got Dirk from The Netherlands and JF from Canada.r > > I > > I must admit, I did not expect these types of responses when I posted H > > what I believed to be an echo of the government's concern over signs$ > > that could be interpreted badly. > >nL > > If you've been effected by the economic downturn whose pace was somewhatH > > accelerated by 9/11 and further exacerbated by Enron, then yes: suchL > > events *DO* effect your daily life, regardless of where in the world you	 > > live.e > R > Sure, in that respect you're absolutely right. What I meant is our state of mindO > etc. There is a big difference between staying alert and vigilant and letting R > our lives by governed by fear, because that is what Bin Laden c.s. would like toR > happen. The fact that people were so afraid to fly after 911, that airlines wentR > bankrupt was exactly what Mr. Laden intended. In reality you would have had moreP > change to be run over and get killed by a car on your way to the airport, thenQ > you would have had to die on a hijacked plane. Speaking for myself, I would notI+ > have been afraid to board a plane on 912.w  F Control is a big thing for many Americans. It's not the probability orF lack thereof, it's the idea of being unable to control. That seeminglyG irrational viewpoint is, I believe (or at least my experience has shownhG it to be) what sparks fear of flying in general, terrorism or hijackingeG aside: if "I" can't drive, then "I" ain't goin'! (That doesn't describe ; me, by the way - I just didn't have another way to say it.)I  D I don't really know why we are this way. My guess would be that it'sH because we're each so convinced that we know better than "the other guy"E how to do (x), so we want everyone to do things our way. Like as not,eG it's an extreme form of self-edification, but as I say, I really dunno.o   -- o David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 03:00:19 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTa' Message-ID: <3D8008B7.D813AFDA@fsi.net>a   Paddy O'Brien wrote: >  > Phillip Helbig wrote:.M > >>>Puleeze.  Let's stick to VMS here.  I doubt that people use COV as theirfO > >>>primary, or even secondary source of information and news about terrorism,  > >>J > >>That doesn't justify not posting it. Remember the 1st amendment? ...or) > >>was that also a victim of the merger?  > >  > >iL > > Free speech is not the issue.  Staying on topic is.  While we all wanderK > > off topic from time to time, this rarely happens as the initial post in 
 > > a thread.  > >aG > > Fred was, in my opinion correctly, pointing out that this newsgrouprI > > should stick to VMS-related topics.  Posting off-topic stuff can't betD > > justified by the first amendment any more than posting spam can. > E > I forget who Phillip was quoting here.  Whatever, I can accept that ; > David can feel this emotion.  I think that most of us do.w > H > I am one who has often asked for less OT (justifying reading at work).F > Somewhere I think this is possibly less OT (in the sense that VMS or! > otherwise, it is another bond).  > I > In NSW, Australia, our premier asked that all cars (specifically Govt.)tC > put on headlights at 8.47 and maintained them for the rest of theE > journey, in honour.o > I > Our time is not your time, and we saw 8.47 US in the early hours of thet
 > morning. > B > I also agree with (I think) J-F.  Over in .au, we are seeing theE > memories and stories of people, etc. (all that J-F, and others haveaB > said), not the Bush (even Blair) idea of revenge against Saddam.  E I've been trying not to get into a political debate here, but I think D there's one impression of America mentioned there that begs comment:  D The issue is not "revenge" against any one person. The issue is thatE Iraq lost "the Gulf War", but acts as if it had won, since that is inhH fact what it told its own people (as documented in the western press andG other media). To save face, the government of Iraq *MUST* defy the U.N.rD The fact that the U.S. is the only super-power in a position to take2 *ANY* kind of action is purely co-incidental, IMO.  G The issue with Sadly Insane himself is that he is a lying barbarian who-E will stop at nothing to further his own personal image in the eyes ofaE his (captive) nation. The issue is the danger he poses as a terroristMH sympathizer and/or proponent, even as a terrorist himself. "Revenge" has nothing to do with it.  I > Why don't we all grieve/honour/remember for a moment, not fight betweenmH > ourselves in this newsgroup.  There are moments of grief everywhere ..F > have we already forgotten Lochabie (? spelling, Alan) and the recentJ > murders of two ten year old girls?  I know it is not the same magnitude,' > but every grief is grief for someone.r   Agreed, whole-heartedly.   -- y David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 03:06:27 GMTl1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTy' Message-ID: <3D800A28.DF1A92F1@fsi.net>b   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:t >  > Paddy is right.s > $ > We must put things in perspective. > 2 > On the 11-Sep 2001 aprox 30.000 children died of > starvation around the world.  E ...and of those, how many died in a terrorist attack (i.e., they were 
 murdered)?   > And 30.000 more children6 > died the 12-Sep-2001, and the 13-Sep-2001, and so on0 > up to this very day, and tomorrow, and the day > after tomorrow, and the ...o  E ...and of those, how many died in a terrorist attack (i.e., they were-
 murdered)?  > > A greaf is a greaf no matter how many is affected. In *that*: > sense, there is nothing particular with the 11-sep-2001.  
 Try again.  D Murderers bent on murder hijacked civilian aircraft and used them as3 incendiary missiles to achieve their murderous end..  H The difference between that and the fact that people live in poverty andD famine are not even close to being similar. This does not lesson theH grief of their families or the gravity of their situation, but they wereA not intentionally destroyed by those with evil intent, unlike thef victims of 9/11.   -- o David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 03:36:12 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTtC Message-ID: <MYTf9.582776$m91.23650845@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D8008B7.D813AFDA@fsi.net...p   ...n  ; > I've been trying not to get into a political debate here,   ) Too bad you didn't try just a bit harder.     but I thinkF > there's one impression of America mentioned there that begs comment: >uF > The issue is not "revenge" against any one person. The issue is thatG > Iraq lost "the Gulf War", but acts as if it had won, since that is inBJ > fact what it told its own people (as documented in the western press andI > other media). To save face, the government of Iraq *MUST* defy the U.N.tF > The fact that the U.S. is the only super-power in a position to take4 > *ANY* kind of action is purely co-incidental, IMO.  I Absolutely.  Which is why the U.S. should be working inside the U.N. with J the rest of the world as equals in this matter rather than puffing out itsI chest and declaring that it's going to do the job whether the rest of thee world likes it or not.   >tI > The issue with Sadly Insane himself is that he is a lying barbarian who G > will stop at nothing to further his own personal image in the eyes ofgG > his (captive) nation. The issue is the danger he poses as a terroristn< > sympathizer and/or proponent, even as a terrorist himself.  L Really?  You seem to have bought the Administration rhetoric hook, line, andJ sinker.  But the rest of the world doesn't seem to buy Saddam as terroristD at all (and neither you nor Dubya have presented any evidence to theL contrary):  they just think he's a local bad-ass who needs to be kept in hisC place, and consider invading him without major provocation (or U.N.mL approval) to be an act of aggression that makes them more nervous about *us* than about Iraq.    "Revenge" has > nothing to do with it.  J Those nations presumably at far greater risk from Iraq than we are are farH less eager to have us wade in.  But I agree that revenge is not the only> possible explanation:  it's at least equally probable that theF Administration needs a new pot to stir to keep the appearance of a warJ footing alive so that it can continue to steam-roll acceptance of domesticK Constitutional rights abuses and foreign-policy strong-arm tactics with ther support of people like you.l   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 03:37:27 GMTo* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTpB Message-ID: <XZTf9.330239$On.13717904@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D800A28.DF1A92F1@fsi.net...h > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:m > >h > > Paddy is right.  > >l& > > We must put things in perspective. > >-4 > > On the 11-Sep 2001 aprox 30.000 children died of  > > starvation around the world. >dG > ...and of those, how many died in a terrorist attack (i.e., they werei > murdered)?  L Probably very few.  Which should make it a far easier problem to address, ifI we were truly primarily interested in life and the quality thereof rathera than something darker.   ...t  @ > > A greaf is a greaf no matter how many is affected. In *that*< > > sense, there is nothing particular with the 11-sep-2001. >s > Try again. >uF > Murderers bent on murder hijacked civilian aircraft and used them as5 > incendiary missiles to achieve their murderous end.k  L Indeed, and extremely effectively.  It should have made us think a bit aboutH why someone would go to all that effort to make a point, but we were too3 busy thumping our chests to ever get to that level.8   >oJ > The difference between that and the fact that people live in poverty and- > famine are not even close to being similar.   K Absolutely, as already noted above.  Of course, working harder to solve the I latter problem would likely have some significant effect on the former asw well.y   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:42:16 GMT51 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTM' Message-ID: <3D80047B.599EA5F5@fsi.net>t   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > J > Confusing the right to free speech and appropriate places to express it?N > Never mind, you started this thing, and since it is the usenet, I expect 4003 > replies to clog what whould be a technical forum.   E Well, alrighty, then! I guess that's the thanx I get for trying to be H helpful and considerate of my fellow Americans - who might not have beenG near a radio or TV during their business day yesterday - and colleagues- around the world.   @ When some terrorist(s) release a cloud of bio-toxin on the windsD approaching some densely populated area that has 12 hours or less toD evacuate, I'll be certain not to bother the group with any off-topic posts about.  F Fuck 'em - let 'em die! If not's not about VMS, don't post it! Fred K. has issued the edict!t   -- A David J. Dachterab dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:51:09 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTs' Message-ID: <3D800695.DBCB0AFC@fsi.net>1   Phillip Helbig wrote:  > N > > > Puleeze.  Let's stick to VMS here.  I doubt that people use COV as theirP > > > primary, or even secondary source of information and news about terrorism, > >TJ > > That doesn't justify not posting it. Remember the 1st amendment? ...or) > > was that also a victim of the merger?T > J > Free speech is not the issue.  Staying on topic is.  While we all wanderI > off topic from time to time, this rarely happens as the initial post in1 > a thread.s > E > Fred was, in my opinion correctly, pointing out that this newsgroupDG > should stick to VMS-related topics.  Posting off-topic stuff can't be3B > justified by the first amendment any more than posting spam can.  9 O.k. then, how about humanity? Concern for one's fellows?s  H ...or does than not count for anything either (re-read the original post if necessary).   -- 0 David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 03:08:42 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT1' Message-ID: <3D800AB1.145F4C66@fsi.net>r   JF Mezei wrote:. >  > Richard Brodie wrote:AL > > Unfortunately, sooner or later someone is bound to start on the politicsP > > of the situation and say something they will regret later, or get drawn intoJ > > an argument.  I do not want to see such here, and certainly not today. > O > I had the TV on during the morning for the WTC remembrance ceremony. Switched K > it off during the pentagon celebrations. But the WTC ceremony was classy.eL > Sorry but that is the only word that comes to mind. Totally apolitical andM > foccused entirely on the victims/family with just very simple music (violinrK > and flute), no fancy bands or trumpets or singers at the WTC celebration.9 > M > Somehow CBS got a hold of the pictures and ages along with the name of eachrP > victims and they were being shown at the same time as the names were spoken byN > family members. I kept it on just in case one name would have been familiar.M > Thankfully (in my case) the only names I recognised were some I had seen on 8 > TV, such as firemen, none that I had known personally. > P > With the "pit" now cleaned, allowing the families to go down and deposit rosesP > probably helped bring closure, especially for the many many families who never > got a body to bury.  > L > My hope now is that the debate on the rebuilding of the site will progressM > much faster. I think that as soon as they start to pour concrete to build ahL > new structure, much healing will come because this will finally bring hope& > that the scar will finally disapear.  G Thank you, JF. Spoken like a true humanitarian! A glimmer of compassion D similar to what I'd hoped to express by passing along Mr. Ashcroft's	 warnings.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:27:22 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT , Message-ID: <3D800987.D32A73EF@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:H > Fuck 'em - let 'em die! If not's not about VMS, don't post it! Fred K. > has issued the edict!m  9 I think that 9/11 has had different effects on everyone. a  J To some, the issue if important enough to feel a need to share with peopleK with whom they are familiar, even though it crosses the topic boundary. AndjA others don't see it an important enough issue to discuss it here.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:36:12 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>sI Subject: Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"i' Message-ID: <3D800310.5EDCAF5D@fsi.net>s   Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Bob Koehler wrote: > J > >    So why reinvent the wheel?  Call decc$chdir and let it do the work.@ > >    Or are you running on a tailored system without the RTLs? > 6 > It could be argued from a purist point of view, that< > the functionaly really belongs outside a language-specific > RTL.  G True, but I've been know to call BAS$FORMAT (the BASIC RTL routine that F facilitates the FORMAT$() built-in function) in DIBOL, COBOL and PL/I.  A If DCL supported floats, I could even see letting that behind the * "brains" behind a new lexical: F$FORMAT().  * F.Y.I.: BASIC's FORMAT$() is used like so:  # PRINT FORMAT$( 10.25, "##,###.##" ) 	     10.25.  E That is, it provides a means to display (or assign to a string field)s' floating-point values via an edit mask.v   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:30:10 GMTp1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> I Subject: Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"d' Message-ID: <3D8001A9.31C8C995@fsi.net>    Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:l > K > >>>>Did y'ever notice that there's no system service to equivalent to SETs > >>>>DEFAULT? > >>>>3 > >>>You can not do ith one call. But you can do ith > >>>with two calls. > > Q > > But when you consider the various structures that need to be setup before you W > > can make those 2 calls, it is far more involved than a simple SET DEFAULT from DCL.o >  > True.  > 8 > But but many system services even if one is sufficient4 > requires significant data structures to be set up. > 3 > One of the best (or worst !) examples is probablyo > SYS$GETQUI(W).  1 ...with F$GETQUI() a close second, if you ask me!i   -- d David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:49:15 -0500t& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS  just yawns 8 Message-ID: <m0bvnu4lmtgqqh3u933v0t0sdk98t693so@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:37:35 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>i wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote: G >> Now to really compare apples-to-apples, use Windows 2000 Data Center   >> licenses vs OpenVMS licenses. >i" >NO! This is exactly the problem.  >mN >VMS is restricted to the "Data center licences" while competitors have a muchG >wider variety of licences from very affordable entry level ones to the  >top-of-class data-center one. >sN >It is VMS which needs to scale down to widen the targetted markets. The other/ >have already scaled up to compete against VMS.   C But the competitor, low-end products (especially Windows) do not go @ through the exhaustive qualification that VMS does for supported
 platforms.    It's still not apples-to-apples.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 02 00:08:18 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) Y Subject: Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!I) Message-ID: <ejUreK3H$CZ8@elias.decus.ch>s  a In article <TDWSEOIfZbxl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:ec > In article <hskunu8mp4eu9ot7qscnqhcott12nippdc@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:bC >> On 10 Sep 02 15:43:05 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)e	 >> wrote:  >>>  >>>US prices fromr@ >>>http://shop.microsoft.com/Referral/productInfo.asp?siteID=656 >>>v >>>Windows 2000 Server:o >>> 5 user $999e >>>10 user $1,199n >>>25 user $1,799l >>>hH >>>But I don't know how much you need to spend on extras such as backup,: >>>job control, and so on. They certainly mount up though. >>>-C >>>http://shop.microsoft.com/Referral/productInfo.asp?siteID=10188 O >>>(= >>>W2000 Advanced Server (SMP support, "clustering" (snigger)g >>>and load balancing) >>>b >>>25 user $3,999e >>>xG >> Now to really compare apples-to-apples, use Windows 2000 Data Centern  >> licenses vs OpenVMS licenses. >> - > ? > I'd like to see that!  Does anyone have a handy W2KDC vs. VMSa: > price comparison?  It might just be a handy club to use,? > especially if it included all the various extra products that'@ > would need to be purchased to get W2KDC a close as possible to > the feature set of VMS.t > A > One project we have going here on W2K looks like it may have toa= > be upgraded to W2KDC to handle the load.  (Upgrade is theirt? > phrase, not mine.  My take on going from W2K to W2KDC is likesA > going from a porto-potty to an industrial waste water treatment:: > plant; the smell is the same, there is just more of it.)  D Kerry Main posted something a year or two ago, quoting license costs@ for NT/W2K at the enterprise level. The figures were not cheap.  __
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:01:22 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>EY Subject: Re: license costs (was: RE: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!O, Message-ID: <3D7FCB41.E6C7653C@videotron.ca>   jlsue wrote:E > But the competitor, low-end products (especially Windows) do not gooB > through the exhaustive qualification that VMS does for supported > platforms.    H So, what you are saying is that you should prevent VMS from competing in' markets where you have low quality OS. u  J VMS should compete in areas where it has an edge over the low quality OS. F Quality is becoming a very important issue now that wintel weenies areJ realising the problems of microsoft. Security is becoming a very importantN issue now that managers are realising their their windows weenies are spendingN their time applying patches and fixing problems instead of improving corporate% infrastructure. And the list goes on.u  H If you price is too high, one thing is certain: you will not make sales.N If price is lower, you can compete and gain market share. And guess what, whatL is wo wrong with VMS regaining some market share in smaller systems and heck even workstations ?i  G If Microsoft cam set its eyes on an unattainable (for it) goal of being H enterprise-class, surely VMS can set its goals to re-enter the lower endF markets which it is technically capable of and needs only a refresh in available software.N   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 22:09:25 -0400E2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)A Subject: Re: Microsoft reeling from hack attacks, VMS just yawns!aK Message-ID: <rdeininger-1109022209260001@1cust190.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>i  = In article <d7791aa1.0209101058.18419917@posting.google.com>,n) bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:i  E >I talked to Rich Marcello about this awhile ago ... why do you thinkYC >they went ahead and did the DS25 for VMS, because I told him about ; >customers like us who needed small workgroup solutions ..."  J I'm sure it was helpful that you pointed this out to him, but rest assured you weren't the only one.e  C Besides, the DS25 had to have been in the pipeline before the alphaAJ retirement announcement.  So the fact that it's now available must be part inertial, part customer demand.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:28:46 GMTE. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)  Subject: Re: microvaxII Hardware4 Message-ID: <OkQf9.80228$1S3.2552358@news.chello.at>  { In article <dfc5bf3f.0209060148.67278e73@posting.google.com>, frank.dueckinghaus@amdahl-autinform.de (Dueckinghaus) writes: G >I'm working in the moment for a company who still work with a MicrovaxiE >II Server. Now we have a the big problem, one HDD is crashed. I needoE >some "new" Hardware for this Server. Can someone tell me where I canu >get Hardware for a MicrovaxII?t >Here the parts I need:e >t/ >MicrovaxII        (The hole System for backup)s >SCSI Controlerr >HDD: NEC 2373     (1GB) >wG >If someone can say me where I can get some of this Hardware I would be  >very pleased.  G If you have only this hardware requirements, then every VAX of the lasts8 decade (at best a VAXstation 4000) should be sufficient.   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:14:50 -0400m* From: Brian Hechinger <wonko@4amlunch.net>K Subject: Power Outage leaves master shadow disk unusable, how do i recover?o6 Message-ID: <20020911231450.B3493@marvin.4amlunch.net>  K ok, power went out.  considering the fact that the UPS didn't even keep thegL machine up for 1 second, i would have to assume that it's dead, and i need a new one.   grrrrrr.  M anyway, no data is lost here, worst case i can wipe the disks clean and startaO over, but since this has happened, this is probably a good time for me to learn # a little more about shadow volumes.-  N i left before the power came back on (logging filesystems++) and when i was atN my friend's house took a stab at my network to see that everything was runningL again.  everything, with the exception of the three way shadow volume that iN put websites on is working.  all my unix boxes, the alpha runs, and two of the8 volume sets are fine, but the third one bit it big time.   here's what i can see:  
 $ show dev  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP DSA0:                   Mounted              0  ALPHASYS       2450576   333   1P DSA1:                   Mounted              0  USERDIRS       4302200     1   1. DSA2:                   Online alloc         0A $1$DKA100:     (BULMA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA1:)aA $1$DKA300:     (BULMA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA1:)tA $1$DKA400:     (BULMA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA1:)-. $1$DKA500:     (BULMA)  Online alloc       392. $1$DKA600:     (BULMA)  Online               0. $1$DKA900:     (BULMA)  Online               0A $1$DKB0:       (BULMA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA0:)oA $1$DKB100:     (BULMA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA0:)J  L so i'm going to assume that $1$DKA500: suffered hardware errors when it lostN power, or when it came back up.  likely guess is that it's dead, and i'll need to put a new disk in its place.D   which is no big deal.   O but the million dollar question is: how do i take the two remaining, assumed toeO be good mirrored disks ($1$DKA600: and $1$DKA900:) and turn then into a workingi- two-way shadow volume, that i mount as DSA2:?d  L and the other question is, what manual is this is?  i looked over the VolumeN Shadowing for OpenVMS, which is nice for telling you how to setup and maintain6 it, but fails to mention much about disaster recovery.  	 thanks!!!.   -brian -- t2 "I want to die like Grandpa - in a peaceful sleep.> Unlike the screaming passengers in his car..."  --Gary Nichols   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:02:17 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.O Subject: Re: Power Outage leaves master shadow disk unusable, how do i recover?s, Message-ID: <3D8011B3.A956224E@videotron.ca>   Brian Hechinger wrote:Q > but the million dollar question is: how do i take the two remaining, assumed tonQ > be good mirrored disks ($1$DKA600: and $1$DKA900:) and turn then into a workingy/ > two-way shadow volume, that i mount as DSA2:?t  M dismount DSA2:  (since SHOW DEV seems to imply that DSA2 is sort of created).t  = mount/system DSA2: /Shadow=($1$DKA600:, $1$DKA900:)   MY$DISK,  J In the event of confusion, DKA600 will serve as source and 900 target of a copy/merge operation.r  D If you have time, I would even go as far as MOUNT/REBUILD $1$DKA600,I (which would mount it as a regular disk and break shadow set information)o/  ANA/DISK/REPAIR DKA600  to make sure it is OK.  DISMOUNT DKA600   L I would also just mount DKA900 and dismount it, to ensure that its shadowing info is also wiped out.h  $ then mount the shadow set as above.       5 > and the other question is, what manual is this is? E  F Both volume shadowing and  DCL dictionary. The trick is that the firstL physical drive specified in the MOUNT /SHADOW command is the one that servesJ as source of data and the others serve as targets of copy/merge operationsL whenever there isn't enough information for VMS to decide which drive is the more recent.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:47:56 -04002* From: Brian Hechinger <wonko@4amlunch.net>O Subject: Re: Power Outage leaves master shadow disk unusable, how do i recover?D6 Message-ID: <20020912004756.D3493@marvin.4amlunch.net>  9 On Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 12:02:17AM -0400, JF Mezei wrote:c > O > dismount DSA2:  (since SHOW DEV seems to imply that DSA2 is sort of created).a  ( this is the part that was hanging me up.  ? > mount/system DSA2: /Shadow=($1$DKA600:, $1$DKA900:)   MY$DISKt  P i just figured this should work, but the partially existant DSA2: seemed to haveJ been hosing things.  once i dismounted it i could mount to other two disks as a shadow set.  F > If you have time, I would even go as far as MOUNT/REBUILD $1$DKA600,K > (which would mount it as a regular disk and break shadow set information)d1 >  ANA/DISK/REPAIR DKA600  to make sure it is OK.1 > DISMOUNT DKA600. > N > I would also just mount DKA900 and dismount it, to ensure that its shadowing > info is also wiped out.  > & > then mount the shadow set as above.   L hmm, well i didn't do that, is there something i can do now?  it's done with* the merge operation, and _seems_ to be ok.  H > Both volume shadowing and  DCL dictionary. The trick is that the firstN > physical drive specified in the MOUNT /SHADOW command is the one that servesL > as source of data and the others serve as targets of copy/merge operationsN > whenever there isn't enough information for VMS to decide which drive is the > more recent.  H ok, that explains a little.  reading through wordy DEC docs when you are" frustrated doesn't help either. :)  D $ mount/sys dsa2: /shadow=($1$DKA500:,$1$DKA600:,$1$DKA900:) webdata" %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, medium is offlineJ %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, Please mount volume WEBDATA in device _$1$DKA500: (BULMA)  & yeah, that looks pretty dead to me. ;)   -brian -- TH >  I'll acheive zenlike shell minimalist perfection someday. Until then,D >  I'll get some work done.	       -- doctor obnox son of a bitch --   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 03:01:21 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)5 Subject: Re: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)s4 Message-ID: <5sTf9.80918$1S3.2552358@news.chello.at>  b In article <3d7e1d99$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:F >>>While I'm on the topic, why isn't there F$PROTECTION to return the   >>>protection mask on an object? >>/ >>Should be on the VMS wish list for decades...e >n/ >What's wrong with F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES' PRO item?  > - >$ write sys$output f$file("login.com","pro")y& >SYSTEM=RWED, OWNER=RWED, GROUP, WORLD   Sorry.E I should have made it clearer. I wanted to point out, that (I want it G and) I've seen some improvement requests for the "+" and the "-" in theRE protection mask for many years now. F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES (was it there a:C decade ago ?) doesnt' offer the same functionality as a (potential)i8 F$PROTECTION as it needs a lot of DCL lines around it...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERu% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 01:54:31 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>iJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?' Message-ID: <3D7FF94E.F2F80194@fsi.net>o   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > A > In article <ZPkf9.253705$_91.284500@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, 7 >    "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:c > <snip> > 9 > >I've yet to find anyone who either can or WILL tell mei# > >why. And believe me, I've asked!z > : > For the same reason the airlines gouge their best-paying; > customers; it's SOP.  Look.  The people that were kept onS: > when Digital was bought out were the same people who did8 > business the way we are not eschewing.  IOW, these are8 > people who do not, and will not, understand that an OS9 > that doesn't put up obstacles for the user to hurdle iso: > a vital piece of a complete computer system.  Businesses= > that sell computer systems have yet to understand that theyp? > are selling a tool that delivers computer _service_.  My termc; > for this flavor of thinking is PC-itis and it is rampant.   A We once were hard-core computer geeks, but now we're all "gooey".e   --   David J. Dachtera1 dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:04:03 +0200W= From: Martin Heller <martin.heller@NOSPAM.for.me.mheller.org>nC Subject: still poor randomness of TCP/IP  sequence numbers in VMS ?v8 Message-ID: <3D7F93A3.7060209@NOSPAM.for.me.mheller.org>  G Don't know if this is known/still applies to the latest release of VMS:tH OpenVMS 7.2 running on  a VAXstation 4000-60 with Compaq TCP/IP ServicesE for OpenVMS VAX V5.1 shows poor randomness in its ISN, which can be aa@ security risk - see CERT Advisory CA-2001-09 (about a year ago).0 results are at http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/newtcp Bye,	 M. Hellerf   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:36:44 GMTn0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>G Subject: Re: still poor randomness of TCP/IP  sequence numbers in VMS ?t2 Message-ID: <gsQf9.58$c46.908380@news.cpqcorp.net>  J Support for RFC 1948, Defending Against Sequence Number Attacks, was added in TCP/IP V5.3.    Matt.e   --= -------------------------------------------------------------i OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Company  Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAs= -------------------------------------------------------------     J "Martin Heller" <martin.heller@NOSPAM.for.me.mheller.org> wrote in message2 news:3D7F93A3.7060209@NOSPAM.for.me.mheller.org...I > Don't know if this is known/still applies to the latest release of VMS:pJ > OpenVMS 7.2 running on  a VAXstation 4000-60 with Compaq TCP/IP ServicesG > for OpenVMS VAX V5.1 shows poor randomness in its ISN, which can be aeB > security risk - see CERT Advisory CA-2001-09 (about a year ago).2 > results are at http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/newtcp > Bye, > M. HellerF >f >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:49:00 GMT 0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>; Subject: Re: TCPIP NFS server and windows-NT / W2000 cliento2 Message-ID: <gTOf9.56$XU5.677995@news.cpqcorp.net>  J You need to be running PCNFSD.  This can be enabled via TCPIP$CONFIG.  YouI may have to restart NFS to also start PCNFSD on V5.0A... I don't remembereJ the startup requirements for that release.  You may just have to issue the TCPIP ENABLE PCNFSD command.   Matt.o   --= -------------------------------------------------------------p OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Companyg Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAb= -------------------------------------------------------------s    4 "Piet Timmers" <piet@timmers-it.nl> wrote in message7 news:be44b12d.0209110534.49cac4f8@posting.google.com....D > I have a OpenVMS NFS-server (TCPIP version V5.0A - ECO 3) and thisH > seems to work, at least I can mount an exported filesystem on an otherD > OpenVMS node. But it is not possible, at least until now, to mountG > this filesystem on a Windows-NT/W2000 node with NFS-client. Are thereyH > special settings I have to make to mount this exported filesystem on aH > windows client. I keep getting the message "Authentication violation".F > As what I can see all the proxies, mappings and exports are correct. >t
 > Help.... >r > Greetingsr >e > Piet Timmers   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:41:24 +0200n@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!+ Message-ID: <3D7F8E54.9070407@mail.tele.dk>r  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  5 > Your explanation for Sun's stock price falling fromr4 > 20 to 3.5 dollars is that we are being squeezed at > the low end margin wise !t > 9 > Remarkable, no hint that there may be external economict= > factors at work including an overall decline in tech stockst6 > a global recession, big spending cuts in a number of4 > major market verticals for various reasons and the > September 11 effect.  3 Are you claiming that NASDAQ or IT stock at averagel has fallen as much as SUN ?r  - If not then Robs explanation sounds much more  plausible than yours !   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:35:25 GMTy5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>." Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!1 Message-ID: <hONf9.53$Jr5.96351@news.cpqcorp.net>    Rob Young wrote in message ...E >In article <MoMf9.50$3U5.657554@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" % <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:p     My point still is:  I >> Aw.  Come on guys.  I thought that Andrew was going to go away, and wed were >> going to not bash Sun.r >>    C Lets not bash Sun, and let Andrew go back to being an IT Architect.y   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:59:56 GMT:5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>-" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!2 Message-ID: <MoMf9.50$3U5.657554@news.cpqcorp.net>  K Aw.  Come on guys.  I thought that Andrew was going to go away, and we were. going to not bash Sun.  6 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >Wow,u >h4 >Your explanation for Sun's stock price falling from >20 to 3.5 dollars  L FWIW - I wasn't sure of your timescale, since you haven't been at $20 in theL last year, so I imagine you meant ~$60 from 2 years ago, and  $3.35 at about 2:45 today.0  J Of course, HP is only a little better at ~$60 at the same time, and $14.31 today.  ) We're all in the same market environment.h   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2002 14:57:04 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!3 Message-ID: <aTzfp2lkhXRI@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  j In article <MoMf9.50$3U5.657554@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:M > Aw.  Come on guys.  I thought that Andrew was going to go away, and we werev > going to not bash Sun. > 8 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >>Wow, >>5 >>Your explanation for Sun's stock price falling from  >>20 to 3.5 dollarsl > N > FWIW - I wasn't sure of your timescale, since you haven't been at $20 in theN > last year, so I imagine you meant ~$60 from 2 years ago, and  $3.35 at about
 > 2:45 today.g > L > Of course, HP is only a little better at ~$60 at the same time, and $14.31 > today. > + > We're all in the same market environment.e >    	Right, not $20.  ; 	In fairness, IBM was trading at $105 August 2001 and is at5@ 	$74 today.  Dell is almost exactly where they were at in AugustI 	2001.  Sun at ~$18 in August 2001, $3 and change today.  So while there n< 	has been a decline, it is bothering large OEMs differently.   	A point made in August 2001:   c http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=EzdFwRUb9XZh%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain   D 	Actually, it is more than that.  IBM's "deep thinkers" have decided= 	to give Linux a big push.  When servers across the board areeG 	nasty commodities and Dell keeps ripping share, they (HP, IBM, Compaq,sE 	bye-bye Sun) all need to focus on different segments... the segmentsU 	are:y  
 		1)  Storage  		2)  Software 		3)  Services  ? 	to complement their declining margins in servers (margins thatc7 	will follow similar curves that PCs left as examples).s   ---e   	Point is...  A 	Declining server margins are going to hurt non-Dell vendors that  	are dependent on hardware.n  4 	Sun the most I'd dare say, but we knew that, right?   				Rob   B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonder G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstream > The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  -                                 -- Neil YoungY   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:05:01 +0000 (UTC)t+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)aJ Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on+ Message-ID: <alo0kd$fds$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>l  n In article <3D7F70BB.7010603@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes: >David Webb wrote: > q >> In article <3D7E38FC.8030809@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes: - >>>AFAIK the last WP version for VMS is 5.1+.o6 >>>And that type of application was fine 10 years ago. >>>No longer so. >> v& >> Well I've go WP 7 on my VMS system. >> i >> HELP WP7e >> y >> WP70  >> t >> dQ >>       The WP70 command invokes the Corel WordPerfect 7.0 for OpenVMs Character * >>       Terminal word processing program, >e >  >OK. >  >They have upgraded. >s< >Is it good ? Or just a 5.1+ that can read/write 7.0 files ? >o  G This was from some years ago - there may well be an even later version. K Unfortunately although I put it up on the system and the help file is stillRM there I didn't really use it. At that time Middlesex's standard wordprocessoruB was wordperfect hence it made sense to have it on the VMS systems.I But just after this was installed the desktops were all switched to Word.e$ Hence this is just a helpfile ghost.        D >> It is a real pity that Sun bought Innosoft (and therefore PMDF).  >  >l! >Process is selling PMDF for VMS.  > 4 >And SUN has dumped all the mail stuff they got from3 >Innosoft, so probably Process can do whatever theyb >belive they can make money on.t >f >So it should not be a problem.  >wG As I understand it although Process can develop and sell PMDF Sun stillhF retains the rights to the product. Hence Process' inability to produceL a hobbyist version of PMDF (Process do have hobbyist versions of their TCPIP	 stacks). sJ Hence it would not be possible without dealing directly with Sun for HP to$ get the PMDF Mail code from Process.  M The SUNone iPlanet Messaging server is a combination of SIMS 4.0 and Netscape   messaging server 4.x facilities.  : http://docs.sun.com/source/816-6017-10/changes.htm#13580    ? Shows that iPlanet Messaging server uses the SIMS (ie PMDF) MTAo   :-   "fM The following iPlanet Messaging Server components are based on the equivalentn+ components in Sun Internet Mail Server 4.0:y       *a       Mail transfer agent (MTA)n       *tI       Basic administrative methods for delegated administration of hostedhO domains (with additional architecture and implementation from iPlanet Delegated  Administrator for Messaging)       * 0       Directory Architecture for hosted domains.   "A  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    7 >>>Calendar ? Todays standard is not just "coordinationa9 >>>between users on one server" but "coordination betweenr >>>users on multiple servers". >> s? >> HP/COMPAQ should be supporting the Mozilla calendar project.fI >> Currently it can only access remotely stored Calendars for reading butoQ >> I understand that after a lot of talking work finally seems to be starting on rM >> a Mozilla Calendar server. Helping out now and influencing its developmente4 >> so that it runs well on VMS would be a good move. >-' >Sounds as a very interesting project !e >p >Arned >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:09:19 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on+ Message-ID: <3D7F94DF.2000307@mail.tele.dk>p   David Webb wrote:   p > In article <3D7F70BB.7010603@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes:" >>Process is selling PMDF for VMS. >>5 >>And SUN has dumped all the mail stuff they got fromR4 >>Innosoft, so probably Process can do whatever they  >>belive they can make money on. >>  >>So it should not be a problem.    I > As I understand it although Process can develop and sell PMDF Sun stillsH > retains the rights to the product. Hence Process' inability to produceN > a hobbyist version of PMDF (Process do have hobbyist versions of their TCPIP > stacks). o     Maybe.  O > The SUNone iPlanet Messaging server is a combination of SIMS 4.0 and Netscape " > messaging server 4.x facilities. > < > http://docs.sun.com/source/816-6017-10/changes.htm#13580   > A > Shows that iPlanet Messaging server uses the SIMS (ie PMDF) MTAd   OK.t  . I got my impression from our local SUN FUDist:   #SIMS was Sun's IMAP server.  * #When the Sun AOL alliance was created the+ #Netscape products such as apps server, webe, #mail etc all came under the umbrella of the
 #alliance.  * #Solaris Internet Mail Server was replaced* #by Netscape's IMAP server as the standard #IMAP server that we supplied.  + #All the Netscape server products were thenw, #re-branded as iPlanet. So the Netscape IMAP- #server became the iPlanet server, there were + #product updates but this was a re-brandingm) #excercise and not a product replacement.   4 #At the time of the AOL Sun deal decisions were made4 #about which products to retain and which to discard #where there was overlap.m  5 #The Netscape server won out though some bits of SIMSi0 #were incorporated into it. iPlanet is as I said #simply a re-branding.  5 Whicg indicated to me that it was very little of SIMS  that was carried over.  8 But maybe I should have choosen a more reliable source !   :-)    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 05:26:35 +0200o2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on; Message-ID: <3d80096b.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>m  ) Don Sykes (annonymous@pacbell.net) wrote: G > A small, but annoying thing to me is the requirement of "sys$input" &eH > "sys$output" in the pipe command. One of the few nice things about theH > Unix shells is brevity. "<" means input from; ">" means output to; andI > "|" means both. If VMS is going to support a pipe command, then I wouldeG > like to use it in a Unix fashion, instead of spelling out the input &o > output - e.g.h > Currently, I have to say:i' > 	$ pipe dir | search sys$input ".log"s > I'd like to be able to say:s > 	$ pipe dir | search ".log"nE > and have the pipe command fill in "sys$input", or at least, specify  > sys$input as < , e.g.: > 	$ pipe dir | search < ".log"u  F The Unix convention is that if an application has a filename parameterB to use "-" as a placeholder instead to signal input from stdin (orC output to stdout - more seldom as that's the standard case). But asS8 always with Unix, that's entirely up to the application.  F If you want to have a Unix shell instead of DCL, why not use one? I'veB heard that in the course of the GNV project, bash has been ported.  E While I occasionally use PIPE, I dislike Unix shells in general. WhenoE brevity is a dogma, scripts tend to quickly become *very* unreadable.2F I dislike having to go through a script character by character without9 being able to glance over it and get the overall context.A   cu,d   Martin -- DG                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmerS4 Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK the Borg have proper       |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/s; networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dei   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:23:12 GMTj( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>Y Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenV6+ Message-ID: <3D7F9903.65CCF866@pacbell.net>o   Kenneth Farmer wrote:R > 7 > From the General forum on OpenVMS.org by Jim Johnson:)4 > http://www.openvms.org/phorum/read.php?f=6&i=4&t=4 >  > ---------------------- > M > I'm interested in finding out what sort of features or capabilities OpenVMSw* > customers might find interesting. <snip>  E A small, but annoying thing to me is the requirement of "sys$input" &oK "sys$output" in the pipe command. One of the few nice things about the Unix K shells is brevity. "<" means input from; ">" means output to; and "|" meansaO both. If VMS is going to support a pipe command, then I would like to use it inDA a Unix fashion, instead of spelling out the input & output - e.g.a Currently, I have to say:F% 	$ pipe dir | search sys$input ".log"  I'd like to be able to say:M 	$ pipe dir | search ".log" P and have the pipe command fill in "sys$input", or at least, specify sys$input as	 < , e.g.:p 	$ pipe dir | search < ".log"    --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com).
 San Franciscoi   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2002 14:39:36 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) Subject: Whither my VAX...= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0209111339.28909a20@posting.google.com>:  > I've had a VMS presence at home since mid 1996, when a pair of< VS3100m76 GPX systems became available; one had its licensesC officially transferred, the other ran the crippled hobby license ofnF the time, and later the newer better hobbyist paks.  I learned quite aA bit from working with them in a cluster and with UCX but then got B quashed by work for most of the last 4 years, so they never became primary use systems.  E I now have an AS600 5/333 (256MB, full fast cache) that is becoming aAF webserver (outside a firewall), a PWS600AU that is my main desktop boxF clustered with an AS200 4/233 that is there mostly so I have a clusterD to play with (it used to be my NT browser and email box till MozillaB got good enough); those are inside a firewall.  In order to fit itD all, one of the VAXstations (hobby licenses) has been closeted sinceE 2001 (and is probably Ebay fodder).  The other (since upgraded to SPX F graphics and 32MB RAM) is still hooked up, but has not been powered up@ in 11 months.  I never had anything that I used on it that isn't< available on the Alpha except some very old DECwindow games.  E I now need to reorganize the room to make room for my wife's desk anddE system (Mac); the only way to do that is fit the secondary systems on D shelving or a rack, and to be honest it would be a lot easier if theF VAXstation and its heavy VR290 monitor weren't part of the situation. E Since a lot of the 'new things' I'm trying to learn at home are Alphan? only (Mozilla, CSWS, PHP, maybe USP, along with new cluster andoF security capabilities, etc) and the room ventilation can barely handleF the three Alphas (and one monitor at a time) running concurrently, andF we do so very little at work that is platform specific (all our source> is straight user level VMS, no VAX or Alpha specificity and no@ privileged code) I'm having a hard time justifying retaining the VAXstation.   ? I've read a lot of posts from various home users who had to let-A individual systems go for various reasons.  Anyone had to make anaD actual platform elimination decision?  Or is there really a good and@ useful reason worthy of the considerable effort it would take to@ retain the VAXstation once remodeling the office gets underway? @ Sentiment and antique DECwindows games don't count (darn it...).  F The one saving grace for the licensed VS is that I can take it to workA and replace the much slower (but still 100% reliable, going on 13aE years) VS3100-30 monochrome box.   Finally a color upgrade (and SPX!)oB but then I have to figure out what to do with the solid, reliable,F non-PC wunderbox that has graced my desk for so long... oh the pain...   Thanks   Rich   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2002 22:19:45 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: Whither my VAX...+ Message-ID: <alofi10lua@enews1.newsguy.com>   ' Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote:sA > I've read a lot of posts from various home users who had to leteC > individual systems go for various reasons.  Anyone had to make anaF > actual platform elimination decision?  Or is there really a good andB > useful reason worthy of the considerable effort it would take toB > retain the VAXstation once remodeling the office gets underway? B > Sentiment and antique DECwindows games don't count (darn it...).  J I say get rid of the Monitor for the VAXstation and run it headless.  EvenF my main VMS box (a PWS 433au) is run headless.  If I want DECwindows IL connect from either my Mac or my WinXP system.  Personally I prefer my VT420D hooked up to a DECserver, or a telnet session.  I'd say keep the VAXI clustered in so that you can play with mixed architecture clustering, and J run any legacy VAX apps that can't be Vested (just becuase you can't think3 of any right now doesn't mean you won't find some).    			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 22:22:53 -0400-* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: Whither my VAX.... Message-ID: <3D7FC23D.21740.720C8D8@localhost>  - On 11 Sep 2002 at 22:19, Zane H. Healy wrote: ! > > Or is there really a good and.D > > useful reason worthy of the considerable effort it would take toD > > retain the VAXstation once remodeling the office gets underway?  >i > I'd say keep the VAXK > clustered in so that you can play with mixed architecture clustering, andeL > run any legacy VAX apps that can't be Vested (just becuase you can't think5 > of any right now doesn't mean you won't find some).u  @ Or, you can get the Personal edition of CHARON-VAX and dump the E actual VAXen entirely...  (sorry, I couldn't pass up a chance to put n in a shameless plug)      
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671t1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comn   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.503 ************************