1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 15 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 509       Contents:  AUTOGEN: VAX: TTY/LGI parameters  Re: Checking $STATUS for success Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MB2 Re: first annual OpenVMS Symposium: Special Guest?" Re: how external input is received" Re: how external input is received! Re: How to debug PRODUCT INSTAL ? ! Re: How to debug PRODUCT INSTAL ?  Re: IMAP performance@ Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"@ Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"@ Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)"@ Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)" Re: ORD / Re: OT: Another security flaw in Microsoft Word < Preinstalled hobby VMS distribution on resold hardware query! Saveset distribution over the web % RE: Saveset distribution over the web % Re: Saveset distribution over the web % Re: Saveset distribution over the web % Re: Saveset distribution over the web 4 Re: Seeking Senior VMS System Administrator Position Re: Sybase and VMS TCPIP 5.3 bug in VAX install( TCPIP installation/management suggestion" Re: TPU Error using VMS from LinuxA Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on K Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on  OpenVMS?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 01:07:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ) Subject: AUTOGEN: VAX: TTY/LGI parameters , Message-ID: <3D8415B8.DA37D07E@videotron.ca>  M Is there a reason that AUTOGEN (VAX 7.2) on VAX tries to calculate values for [ the TTY and LGI (terminal) parameters ? Those contain the various terminal characteristics.   H A century ago (at microvms 4.7), I spent the time to set those to what IF wanted and I have never changed them since. They work fine, I think...  M Should I worry about recalculating the correct values whenever I upgrade to a  new version of VMS ?  H (I have real TX ports on my all mighty micrivax II and still make use of. those, although much less as time progresses).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:04:26 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> ) Subject: Re: Checking $STATUS for success / Message-ID: <uo7g3q71ned7be@corp.supernews.com>   P :> But the above fails in a command procedure or if I test against anything else :> than "1".  D Are you checking $STATUS _immediately_ after the command you wish to check?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:55:54 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> ! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB / Message-ID: <uo7fjqofo8nv13@corp.supernews.com>   ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: C :> I just hope you're not the poor, unfortunate son-of-bitch thirty G :> heartbeats away from death when the medical records database crashes J :> because someone "approximated" the size of a database table and guessedH :> wrong by 3%, especially if the ER people need to know something aboutE :> your medical history or any other bit of info locked away in their  :> paperless chart system...  K : Please provide the name of that hospital that not only skates blithely so K : close to the hairy edge of its computing resources but uses software that N : crashes when it bumps up against that edge, so that I can be sure *never* to : go there.   A Why you expect s/w and computers related to healthcare to not be  @ bound by the same physical constraints as the rest of world is a mystery to me.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 00:18:47 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB A Message-ID: <HlQg9.28146$5r1.1136115@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   < "Michael Zarlenga" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message) news:uo7fjqofo8nv13@corp.supernews.com... + > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: E > :> I just hope you're not the poor, unfortunate son-of-bitch thirty I > :> heartbeats away from death when the medical records database crashes L > :> because someone "approximated" the size of a database table and guessedJ > :> wrong by 3%, especially if the ER people need to know something aboutG > :> your medical history or any other bit of info locked away in their  > :> paperless chart system... > J > : Please provide the name of that hospital that not only skates blithely soH > : close to the hairy edge of its computing resources but uses software thatE > : crashes when it bumps up against that edge, so that I can be sure 
 *never* to
 > : go there.  > B > Why you expect s/w and computers related to healthcare to not beB > bound by the same physical constraints as the rest of world is a > mystery to me.  J I guess that's because you didn't understand what you read:  what I expectL is that hospitals will be a bit more careful about hitting those constraintsD than, e.g., a word-processor might be.  Running within 3% of a fuzzyI (because exact table size prediction *is* fuzzy) space limit which if hit J will cause your life-critical system to crash is just flat-out stupid:  itH has nothing to do with having the same physical constraints to deal withA that other systems have, and everything to do with treating those K constraints with increased respect (either by using more disk-full-tolerant L software or by ensuring that you'll never get at all close to running out of+ space - and preferably both, in this case).    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 01:16:53 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB & Message-ID: <3D83E4FA.7E9AB2B@fsi.net>   Carl Perkins wrote:  > [snip]F > Just for the record, I do understand your point. Better than you do,
 > in fact.  F No, you don't. You repeatedly have stated that you refuse to with thatF nonsense about the subject line. You haven't so much as made an effortE to understand, or even consider the possibility of a paradigm outside 	 your own.   < > Some of it is correct: there are times when an estimate is > not good enough.  E That is, most of the time. 2000 never will be a power of two. Neither  will 500. Get over it.  4 > The rest of it is incorrect: you insist that it isG > never good enough - since there are times when you can't use one then F > nobody should ever use one. This is not only not correct, it is just > plain stupid.   B ...or so you say. In my line of work, errors of that magnitude are$ potentially lethal on a grand scale.  G Case in point (and you may even find this by searching Google for posts H from me this time last year): When we first tried the 64-bit riser cardsH in the GS160 PCI drawers, they were "off" by scarcely 0.03% in one facetH of their engineering. As a result, the entire 360GB+ database was almostA completely destroyed. Cerner spent the better part of three weeks - reconstructing it from backups and journals.    G We're not where management wants to be yet in regards to paperlessness. G So, no surgeries were endangered (although many were cancelled or moved C to other facilities) and no lives were lost; however, the financial E damage to the hospital is still being calculated. The last estimate I 6 heard was on the order of tens of millions of dollars.  G In this business, you don't "estimate", "approximate" or anything else. F You get it right every time. Lives are at stake. Get that through your concrete skull, will you??!!  A > This also indicates a possible second reason why you have never ; > understood my point: you have not actually read my posts.   A Actually, yes I have. ...and in rereading them now, I still can't  believe it!    > [snip]H > If you were not a complete and utter moron you would have noticed thatG > the only thing that have I have been saying over and over and over is 9 > that *SOMETIMES* a quick estimate is all that you need.   D ...and if you had at least made an effort to look at things from theD point of view I've tried to express, you would see that I cannot andB will not subscribe to that point view. "Quick estimates" with thatF margin of error are for newbies and lay people. Seasoned professionals! are supposed to know better, IMO.   1 > You are clearly too stupid to grasp this point.   G ...and you are clearly too pig-headed to even make an effort grasp this  one:  E > Here it is again, multiple times: Sometimes all you need is a quick   > estimate. An estimate is often  ) ...make that "rarely" or "usually not"...   $ > all you need. An approximate value > is frequently    ...make that "almost never"...   > sufficient. In many   G ...make that "on rare occasions, such as when you have no calculator or  DCL command line handy"...   > an approximation is  > all that is required.   C ...make that "will suffice until a better calculation can be made."    > There are many  $ ...make that "a few, exceptional"...  " > occasions when it is unnecessary1 > to do use anything other than a quick estimate.    Got it *NOW*???!!!  : > If you claim that this is not true, then you are stupid.  ? ...make that "a conscientious, detail-oriented professional"...    > (In @ > your case, even if you don't claim that it is not true you are > still stupid.)  G ...make that "perhaps a bit overly zealous, but in the healthcare field E where patient's lives are on the line, you can't afford to be wrong."   B > By the way: if being off by 3% in the above example crashes yourA > database, then you have almost certinaly designed your database  > wrong.  G Clearly, you missed the part about a dearth of physical resources (disk C space, floor space for more disk space, budget to acquire more disk > space, cooling to allow hotter-running, high speed disks ...).  5 > But that wouldn't surprise me since you are stupid.  > K > }Oh yeah, I keep forgetting - you don't understand practical examples, no > > }matter how relevant they may be to the main thread subject. >   > Did you even read my examples?   Yes, I did.   G You may have read my examples, but you clearly did not understand them.  Did you even make an effort?  D ...or are you so f***king convinced that you're right not even going# listen to anyone else's point view?   C After all, if someone isn't where you are, hasn't been (only) where C you've been and has professional experiences other than yours, that # person is "stupid", "a moron", etc.    > You have deleted at least two ! > of them, responding to neither.   > ...as they were irrelevant to the point I've been trying make.  " > Obviously you did not understandA > them, if you even read them, which is not surprising as you are 	 > stupid.  > ? > No example that you have posted has been relevant to the main  > subject thread.   D Well, yes they are. You just refuse to acknowledge that they are, orE even could be because you're so vested in your own point of view that = anyone who dares differ with you is "stupid", "a moron", etc.   0 > For that matter, neither were mine - mine were  > only relevant to your spurious   ...make that "relevant"...    > posts. You'd have noticed this > if you were not stupid.  > C > You cleary do not even know what the main subject thread is, even  > after I have told you.  D I KNOW what the main thread subject is. This is obvious to even mostG casual observer. Equally obvious is that you clearly don't care what it D is or you would not have persisted this long - all you care about is@ being right, and f**k anyone who says otherwise as far as you're
 concerned.  . > Here is is again: the main subject thread is' > "how do I convert from blocks to MB".   , ...and the answer is "you divide by 2048"...  + What part of that are unable to understand?   . What part of that are unwilling to understand?   > You might consider looking > at the subject line.  9 I did - it's the same as I have been asserting all along.   G Can you take your blinders off long enough to at least acknowledge that C this much is at least possible, regardless of whether you choose to  accept it or not?   0 > It will also tell you what the main thread is.: > You would have already know this if you were not stupid. >   > }I'm done - have a great life! > }--  > }David J. Dachtera > 2 > Given what you have said, you are not quite done  = Quite right. Such childishness and nonsense could not be left 
 unchallenged.   - *NOW* I'm done - rave on, as much you like...   $ ...only, a word to the wise - DON'T!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:33:38 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> ; Subject: Re: first annual OpenVMS Symposium: Special Guest? . Message-ID: <6iLg9.478832$UU1.77013@sccrnsc03>  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D82C9B0.5EA63FF2@Free.fr...  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > > > > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message% > > news:3D823502.A9B0F48A@Free.fr... 
 > > > Sue, > > > ? > > > Maybe HPlovesVMS could invite Ken Olsen to the Symposium?  > > J > > Nice idea, but unlikely. Ken turned 76 on Feb 20 and supposedly is not > > in the best of health. > G > Terry DrinksWater, my dad is 88 and is in the best of health, thanks.   0 Tres bien, mon ami. "A votre sante" to your dad.   > ; > > That's why he missed the DECworld 2001 event last year.  > 7 > Which DECworld 2001? Noone heard of this in France...   H It was held in June 2001 in Palo Alto, close to Moffett Field. About 200C attendees. The event was not well publicized and primarily included I ex-DECcies. I did a writeup in SKCV8N23 in June 2001 and sent you the PDF  separately.   ( Alas, next one isn't planned until 2005.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:40:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> + Subject: Re: how external input is received , Message-ID: <3D838293.8F5C55E7@videotron.ca>  	 Mr Todd,    J Mr Shannon  seems to have changed significantly recently. I would not makeJ much of his accusations that a letter from concerned customers to CapellasM would have changed things. As I recall, the letter occured after Capellas had L come close to killing VMS but could not because of the revenus VMS generates/ are necessary to subsidize his love for wintel.   L I do not know whether My Shannon's recent attitude is designed to confirm toN us that Capellas is a real ennemy of VMS, whether we are considered the ennemyH of VMS, or whether something has happened to Mr Shannon's situation that# forced him to change his behaviour.   M He has the right to his opinions. And over time, I suspect that his situation J may become clearer and we may one day understand why he said these things.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 01:58:08 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: how external input is received ' Message-ID: <3D83EEA8.333A79F1@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > [snip]N > It seemed appropriate in responding to point out "the abject incompetence ofL > Compaq's management (for that is the only appropriate characterization forK > executives unwilling to listen to well-thought-out customer and ISV input + > that conflicts with their own pet views),   F Oohhh... Geez, Bill! I realize that's how you feel, and it's difficult? to disagree with it, but as Ken has pointed out here in c.o.v., E OpenVMS.org is highly visible, and is viewed at the highest levels in F HP/Q. That is, they view the forums there, but do not take the time to: wade through this newsgroup via google or any other means.  F There comes a time, as much as it shagrins me to say it, when even the) strongest feelings must bow to diplomacy.    > much of which unfortunately M > remains in positions of authority at HP."  If anyone hasn't seen the letter F > in question I'll be happy to post it so that they can form their own
 > opinion.  F I'd recommend (take that as you will) posting a link to it rather thanG the text itself. Reference: a thread here recently where someone wanted  to take back posting.   M > Meanwhile, as I said before, further explanation of this supposed 'negative K > fallout' would help establish expectations for HPaq responsiveness to the K > kinds of suggestions for VMS's future that many here might be inclined to  > put forward.  E Agreed, and in part at least, this carries much weight in my personal D debates over whether to pursue attending HP/ETS-2002. As much as I'dG like one more opportunity to speak at any "HP Listens Panel" they might F hold, I'm not convinced that I have yet achieved the proper wording toC overcome the resistance to increasing VMS's marketshare that such a 0 proposal is likely to encounter and/or generate.  D Yes, I too lose patience with what is going on with VMS. RememberingF one's place is frequently difficult (for me at least). VMS is still myD livelihood, but those days are drawing to an end, and whether I makeH that happen or VMS Mgt. does really makes little difference in the finalE analysis. I feel no less zeal because of this, but perhaps a bit less ? guilt for not achieving what I might want to achieve, VMS-wise.   ' MHO, for what little it may be worth...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 20:06:19 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> * Subject: Re: How to debug PRODUCT INSTAL ?' Message-ID: <3D837A99.1FAD7134@Free.fr>   L Have a look at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstal/. I go for dinner (myM wife is calling me :-) and I'll be right back to give an answer as I ran into L that advanced debugging stuff a couple of times. But yes, the first and bestL solution is to tell the DCL procedures to say what they actually do and what they failed to do.   D.   JF Mezei wrote:  > 8 > Ok, Installed TCPIP 5.3 on node BIKE without problems. > I > But on VELO, the PRODUCT INSTAL fails consistently after the 90% stage.  > $ > I tried /LOG but that was useless.( > I tried /TRACE  and all it yielded was > that it issuedM >  @psci$source:[sysmgr]cleanup_ucx.com    (while does just an exit since UCX  > never existed on my systems) > 5 > PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows...  > $STATUS = %10A38012  > E > PCSI-F-EXEINSFAIL, product supplied EXECUTE INSTAL procedure failed & > installation failed bla bla bla bla. >  > QUESTIONS: > P > 1- are there better logging options apart from /LOG and /TRACE ? Is there someN > logical I can set to cause SET VERIFY to be set for *all* the DCL commands ?K > Or must I have to do a SET WATCH FILE/CLASS=ALL and parse through all the . > output to try to figure out where it fails ? > M > 2-Is the equivalent of KITINSTAL.COM the last file in the kit, the one that C > ends with PCSI$DESCRIPTION ? (That one doesn't seem to be calling 8 > cleanup_ucx.com so I figure there must be another one. > N > Is there a document that describes how one goes about debugging those damnedK > PCSI kits ?  With VMSINSTAL, one didn't need proprietary documentation to @ > debig the DCL inside and find a way to get the instal to work. > O > Sorry if I sound a bit raw, but on a microvax, each test takes forever to get % > to between the 90% and 100% stages.  > K > One last question: If I do a PRODUCT REMOVE, will all the config files be J > removed ? (in the case fo TCPIP, since there are so many spread around).   --  2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 17:18:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Re: How to debug PRODUCT INSTAL ?, Message-ID: <3D83A782.ADD7F7B5@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:  > First, my PCSI primer:  N Thanks. I had deducted much of it though during my own attempts of finding out why the tcpip instal failed.  P >    Read the OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual M-Z pages 3-1  F That doesn't provide much more than what is already available in HELP.  E > and the Polycenter Software Installation Utility Developer's Guide.   J Yep, that one is more helpful. Yet, I am very disapointed that there is no# sure way to debug those procedures.   F Also the documentation states that "execute install" does not apply toI upgrades. Yet, upgrading from a failed instal of 5.3 (many times) with an & original 5.0 having been present, the   8 execute install "@pcsi$source:[sysmgr]cleanup_ucx.com"   	   remove "" $ 	   source [sysmgr]cleanup_ucx.com ;   still executes for me. From section 7-19: ##K The execute ...remove statement has no effect when the product is upgraded. J To execute commands when the product is upgraded by another version of the+ product, use the execute upgrade statement.  ##  K Interestingly, the installation appears to fail after this one, become I do L not see any message indicating that it is about to execute the postinstall. D (in the pcsi$description file, there are only 2 execute statements).  K The manual did help me understand that PCSI thing a bit better. But i still  distrust that utility big time.     R > The 90 to 100% is the post install DCL proc period. So, if you get an error justO > after the 10%, it comes from the preconf proc. If it is after 90%, as in your / > case, the bug is within the postinstall proc.   K The error message contains an "EXECUTE INSTAL" which means that betwene 90% C and 100& it executes the INSTALl ones and then the postinstal ones.   I What I did learn from the material you posted and from the manual is that D PRODUCT will send a "SHOW SYMBOL $STATUS" after calling one of thoseF procedures in the subprocess and parses the output to determine if theI procedure had a success or not. (I call that a kludge). I also learn that N PRODUCT filters any subprocess output that doesn't look like an error message.I (sorry, but I find that plain stupid - when you try to find out why a dec E provided kit fails on your machine, that isn't a very kind behaviour)     R > The PRODUCT REMOVE will remove all, every and only the files that were installed+ > via the previous PRODUCT INSTALL command.   L but the execute install "@xxx" remove "@yyyy" may see "@yyyy" remove variousG config files. I was thinking of doing a product remove of tcpip 5.3 and H bringing back 5.0, but before doing so, I need to ensure that I wouldn'tK remove stuff I want to keep. Again, since those procedures are so opaque to L the system manager, the system manager has no idea what they do. (a bit like" windows installation procedures).        1 Tanks for your time. hope you had a nice dinner !    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:49:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: IMAP performance , Message-ID: <3D83E712.568DF012@videotron.ca>  L Well, I know IMAP isn't for me. Yesterday, I sent myself ( MAIL /FOREIGN ) a 7000 block .SWF file.   N It took forever to get a list of messages (that one, I do not understand), butL when i tried to open the email, it took about half an hour before it startedM to download, and the IMAP process grew to take up all available memory (about M 14000 pages) and outswapped most other processes, eating up 60% of cpu during J that time. At times, the process was even in COMO state ( i had never seen that !)   1 And then the download started and was very slow.    M I don't quite understand why it would take so long to get a list of messages, H since the mAIL.MAI would not have contained that 7000 block file, so the= directory of messages shoudl have been very quick and spiffy.   K And as far as downloading the email, I would assume that IMAP wants to read 5 the email in memory before it transforms it to mime.    N With smaller images, it does work ( MAIL /FOREIGN, and IMAP does transform the8 email so that a client such as Netscape can display it).  I However, the file that maps the file types to content types does miss the  flash types (.swf etc).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:21:39 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>I Subject: Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)" + Message-ID: <3D839A53.5070805@mail.tele.dk>    David J. Dachtera wrote:  K  > I should think that F$FAO would support anything that $FAO supports, no? H  > ...regardless of whether DCL supports the associated data(type(s))...    . How can F$FAO support something DCL does not ?   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 17:20:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> I Subject: Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)" , Message-ID: <3D83A80D.2ECE304A@videotron.ca>   Arne Vajhj wrote:0 > How can F$FAO support something DCL does not ?  D If F$FAO lexical simply calls SYS$FAO system routine, then it should2 implicitely support all of the SYS$FAO constructs.  I However, it is obvious that since DCL doesn't have quandwords or floating A points, it would not be able to supply such arguments to SYS$FAO.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 01:18:01 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> I Subject: Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)" ' Message-ID: <3D83E542.8B63D19A@fsi.net>    Carl Perkins wrote:  > 7 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...  > }Arne Vajhj wrote:  > }> David J. Dachtera wrote:  > }> > Bob Koehler wrote: b > }> >>In article <3D800310.5EDCAF5D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:I > }> >>>If DCL supported floats, I could even see letting that behind the 2 > }> >>>"brains" behind a new lexical: F$FORMAT().) > }> >>   Redundant with f$fao, isn't it? J > }> > Dunno. Does (F)$FAO provide directives that allow the formatting ofM > }> > floating point and/or scaled integer data with decimal points, commas, ? > }> > trailing signs and floating dollar signs like FORMAT$()?  > }> >O > }> > I don't recall ever seeing anything like that, but I'm hardly the expert  > }> > on it ($FAO). > }>	 > }> ????  > }>F > }> Since DCL does currently not support floating & fixed point, then) > }> F$FAO ofcourse do not support those.  > }>@ > }> But if DCL supported floating & fixed point, then F$FAO may- > }> be the logical place to put formatting !  > } K > }I should think that F$FAO would support anything that $FAO supports, no? I > }....regardless of whether DCL supports the associated data(type(s))...  > }  > }--  > }David J. Dachtera > H > The $FAO system service does not support floating point on any version > of VMS that I am aware of.  7 Just so everyone understands: I never said that it did.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 01:20:52 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> I Subject: Re: lexicals (was: RE: SET PROTECTION (SET SECURITY/PROTECTION)" ' Message-ID: <3D83E5EE.BE18B2A5@fsi.net>    Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > M >  > I should think that F$FAO would support anything that $FAO supports, no? J >  > ...regardless of whether DCL supports the associated data(type(s))... > 0 > How can F$FAO support something DCL does not ?  G Simple: the F$xxx() routines are nothing more than DCL-level interfaces H to the underlying system services. They perform no filtering nor do theyA impose any other limitations. The services themselves may support = features that DCL does not provide access to, but that is the " coincidence of it, not the design.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:40:14 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>  Subject: Re: ORD. Message-ID: <ioLg9.478886$UU1.77619@sccrnsc03>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELPFLAA.tom@kednos.com... / > It isn't flamewars, it is the ennui of boring + > irrelevant topics, also known as bullshit   L But consider the opportunity. To hell with T-Shirts and tote bags, it's time for HP-labeled Nomex Suits!    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 01:29:30 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 8 Subject: Re: OT: Another security flaw in Microsoft Word' Message-ID: <3D83E7F4.30ED3AFC@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > 7 > Since many are forced to use Microsoft's WORD here...  > 2 >   Microsoft Finds Security Flaw in Word Software >  >   9/12/02 5:40pm >  >   Associated Press > P >  WASHINGTON -- Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) flagship word processor has a securityP > flaw that could allow the theft of computer files by "bugging" a document with0 > a hidden code, the company disclosed Thursday. > [snip]  C Yeah - heard about that onthe way home from work yesterday. Then my F daily InfoWorld updates included something about the fixes for IE6 notD plugging all the holes, or maybe even making new ones. Dunno. I'm so? sick of Micro$hit I don't even bother reading about it anymore.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:37:07 -0500 ( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>E Subject: Preinstalled hobby VMS distribution on resold hardware query / Message-ID: <uo7p3ar5n47l19@corp.supernews.com>   E I'm probably selling a VAXstation 3100m76 GPX on Ebay in the not too  D distant future.  Since purchase it has been used only with hobbyist G licenses.  As it will go complete (sans monitor/keyboard) including an  H RZ26L, and it could be nice for the potential buyer to get a 'bootable' ? system, and since I didn't find an answer in an admittedly not  A painstaking google search, or on the Q website license section...   F Is it legal to sell/resell hardware, in this case without an existing G commercial (transferable) license, and include a fresh install (on top  G of a hard erase of the disk) of VMS (DECnet? TCPIP?), but with no PAKs  A installed, hobbyist or otherwise?  Such a system would boot to a  C username prompt on the display (or on the console serial port) and  H 'prove' operational status, and perhaps save someone from having to dig I up media that is apparently not always easy to get, even though they can  H get the hobbyist license PAKs themselves. It would not really be useful F until they got licenses but I could put the latest releases on it, to H the benefit of a possible purchasing hobbyist user without media access.  F If I had spare original media for VMS/DECnet/TCPIP I could include in H the sale, would that make a difference on any issues with preinstalling H it?  I'm not sure I can manage that with media on hand unless I go with $ an older version of VMS(6.2 or 7.1).   Thanks for info.   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:09:17 +0100 + From: "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com> * Subject: Saveset distribution over the web5 Message-ID: <1032040960.921194@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>    All,J I hope I could grab a little of your thoughts on web based distribution ofJ VMS Software. For our customers currently we ship them a DAT tape with theJ 90MB or so of our software (Runs on VMS 6.2-1h3 and above, for Alpha only)D as 5 savesets on the tape, they are installed using VMSINSTAL. The 5I savesets are created with the BACKUP utility as I guess you would expect, K and they are specific portions of the software, one is all the executables, L one documents, one library routines etc etc. My questions is about web basedI distribution over the web. I would like to be able to put these up on our B ftp site for download, but what would be the best format for this? My thoughts are:K 1. Put them up as they are after a binary ftp from my VMS server to our ftp L site (run with Win2k) and allow the customers to simply binary ftp them fromJ us, and binary ftp to their system, then install..we would create a scriptL to install the software. BUT would this corrupt the VMS format of the files?I 2. As above but use ZIP to ZIP the files prior to putting on the web..notc> for any compression advantage, but to prevent file corruption.  J What are your thoughts please? I know the .exe's should be ok on their own3 anyway. Is there another, better way of doing this?I  + Any comments welcome as it will help me! :)a RegardsT   Andy Proctor   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:11:31 -0700/# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>S. Subject: RE: Saveset distribution over the web9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEMGFLAA.tom@kednos.com>   = Use ZIP it should obviate the need to undo what W2K has done.s  = We provide the PL/I kit in this form for download and haven'tiF had any problems.  We also have put the unzipped versions up, but also9 included the freeware script to reset the file atrributeso   >-----Original Message-----i1 >From: Andy Proctor [mailto:aproctor@hotmail.com] + >Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:09 PMC >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ >Subject: Saveset distribution over the web  >  >o >All, K >I hope I could grab a little of your thoughts on web based distribution ofeK >VMS Software. For our customers currently we ship them a DAT tape with theVK >90MB or so of our software (Runs on VMS 6.2-1h3 and above, for Alpha only)-E >as 5 savesets on the tape, they are installed using VMSINSTAL. The 5mJ >savesets are created with the BACKUP utility as I guess you would expect,L >and they are specific portions of the software, one is all the executables,C >one documents, one library routines etc etc. My questions is aboutm
 >web basedJ >distribution over the web. I would like to be able to put these up on ourC >ftp site for download, but what would be the best format for this?e >My thoughts are:nL >1. Put them up as they are after a binary ftp from my VMS server to our ftpC >site (run with Win2k) and allow the customers to simply binary ftpe
 >them fromK >us, and binary ftp to their system, then install..we would create a script B >to install the software. BUT would this corrupt the VMS format of >the files?2J >2. As above but use ZIP to ZIP the files prior to putting on the web..not? >for any compression advantage, but to prevent file corruption.p >pK >What are your thoughts please? I know the .exe's should be ok on their owna4 >anyway. Is there another, better way of doing this? >T, >Any comments welcome as it will help me! :) >Regards >-
 >Andy Proctor- >- >- >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).:@ >Version: 6.0.385 / Virus Database: 217 - Release Date: 9/4/2002 >m --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.385 / Virus Database: 217 - Release Date: 9/4/2002r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 00:12:06 +0100a+ From: "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com>l. Subject: Re: Saveset distribution over the web5 Message-ID: <1032044729.420698@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>e  I Tom has helped me out by E mail here, I have a great solution now thanks!f   Andy   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2002 20:29:26 -0700: From: craig.berry@signaltreesolutions.com (Craig A. Berry). Subject: Re: Saveset distribution over the web= Message-ID: <aae510ff.0209141929.644c8ad8@posting.google.com>m   Andy Proctor wrote:h  ! > My questions is about web basedhK > distribution over the web. I would like to be able to put these up on our-D > ftp site for download, but what would be the best format for this? > My thoughts are:M > 1. Put them up as they are after a binary ftp from my VMS server to our ftp3N > site (run with Win2k) and allow the customers to simply binary ftp them fromL > us, and binary ftp to their system, then install..we would create a scriptN > to install the software. BUT would this corrupt the VMS format of the files?    D Yes, but it might be possible to decorrupt them if the record length< of the saveset is a multiple of 512 and you twiddle the fileC attributes of the resulting file to be the same as they were on theyF originating VMS system, but that's more of a desperate workaround than a reasonable plan.    K > 2. As above but use ZIP to ZIP the files prior to putting on the web..noti@ > for any compression advantage, but to prevent file corruption.    E Zip or self-extracting zip seem like the only sensible options to me.t; It's also preferable to serve things up directly from a VMSa: system,though usually you can get away without doing that.  D In any case you should also distribute a checksum so folks know what* they got is what you intended them to get.  F P.S. Your customers might also appreciate getting a CD-ROM rather than< a tape if you are exploring distribution options in general.  E P.P.S. There are of course numerous other ways of transferring binarygB files between VMS systems if you have some control over both ends:  A If you have TCPware, Multinet, or HGFTP you can preserve VMS filei  attributes with an ftp transfer.  B HEX.MAR and DEHEX.MAR, which, respectively, squash the file into aE 7-bit ASCII text file and then reassemble it at the other end after ahA text transfer (do these compile on Alpha?  I haven't used them inn years.)s  : MAIL/FOREIGN (this may only work over DECnet, not TCP/IP)   - MIME or MPACK to send binary mail attachmentsf  C Various sorts of files can be stuffed into text or object libraries-E which have fixed, 512-byte records. The library can be transferred ine= binary and then its contents pulled out at the receiving end.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 00:50:08 -0400f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e. Subject: Re: Saveset distribution over the web, Message-ID: <3D841182.E25922E0@videotron.ca>  N You can simply provide a simple command procedure that uses SET FILE/ATTRIB to5 set the transfered savesets to the proper attributes.d  M Also, I am not sure if this still works, but I *think* at one point you couldmM specify /BLOCKSIZE in the backup command and this essentially sets the recordoL lenbth of the save set file. If you set it to 512, the  system receiving theN file would create a binary file with fixed 512 attribute (for TYPE IMAGE file)N and that would let BACKUP use the file out of the box. Haven't tried this in a long time though.t  M Digital often uses a utility that is self executable. That is transfered as aeK binary file, created by default as a 512 fixed file which is executable and H the small program extracts itself into the backup saveset with the right@ attributes. I believe this file now compresses its data as well.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2002 15:13:46 -0700/ From: chinachowchow@mailcity.com (Rick Nickles)e= Subject: Re: Seeking Senior VMS System Administrator Positione= Message-ID: <ac4e3b24.0209141413.40c3f946@posting.google.com>    Thanks so much!!  D Please let me know if you have other ideas! As far as geography I amD open.  I realize that I will probably need to relocate, contract, orE work from home somehow.  There isn't much in this area.  I would like E to make sure that wherever the work has a good work market so that ifoB something happens I can find another place to go without uprooting over and over.   thanks!e Rick  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<Ewq47tZ5sOcT@eisner.encompasserve.org>...m > In article <M7vg9.15992$Wa.914882@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes: P > > You may want to post this message in the OpenVMS.org resume forum.  It can't	 > > hurt.  > > . > > http://www.openvms.org/phorum/list.php?f=3 > < > It also would not hurt to indicate a geography preference. >  > > Kenneth Farmer > > http://www.Tru64.org > > http://www.OpenVMS.org > > http://www.LinuxHPC.orga > >  > >  > > @ > > "Rick Nickles" <chinachowchow@mailcity.com> wrote in message; > > news:ac4e3b24.0209131601.743d87ba@posting.google.com...s > >> Greetings!p > >>I > >>      I was recently involved in a major downsizing, and I am seekingeE > >> employment.  If there is anyone who knows of any VMS openings oroF > >> anything that may be appropriate for a person with a MS degree inF > >> Computer Science and 15 years of VMS experience.  Apparently thisH > >> layoff was primarily due to the financial state of our company, andI > >> also due to the fact that they do not plan to use VMS in the future.oJ > >> I would be more than happy to forward my resume on request. Thank you# > >> so much for any help or ideas.m > >> > >> Thanksc > >> > >> Rick Nickles  > >> chinachowchow@mailcity.comn > >  > >y   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:00:43 -0000i/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>. Subject: Re: Sybase and VMSm/ Message-ID: <uo7fsr1tmnhq71@corp.supernews.com>h  ? Antony Wardle <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> wrote:a- : I hear that sybase and VMS isn't supported.a  H About 2 years ago, Sybase has announced they will no longer support VMS.  * Check http://www.sybase.com for specifics.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:19:37 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o% Subject: TCPIP 5.3 bug in VAX install , Message-ID: <3D83EE33.90779D81@videotron.ca>   TCPIP 5.3-18  7 On VAX, it executes a procedure called cleanup_ucx.com.   N That procedure tests for the existence of 2 files. If neither exists, then the procedure exists.,A If one exists, the procedure continues and assumes UCX is presentp  F 1- it defines SYS$OUTPUT ***AND SYS$ERROR *** to NL:, preventing errorJ messages to be sent back to the main process and displayed when a user has specified /LOG/TRACE. BAD BOY !p  I 2- One of the two files checked is actually supplied by the TCPIP 5.3 kitpN [SYSEXE]UCX$UCP.EXE. The file date from march 2002, and contains 0 blocks (eg,H just a place holder). Therefore, the IF statement is alwasy true and theI procedure never exits and always assumes an old UCX kit was installed andr needs to be deleted.  J Because of the presence of ucx$ucp.exe , the cleanup$ucx.com continued andP tried to delete a whole bunch of old UCX files which never existed on my system.  K What I do not quite understand is why the instal succeeded on my other nodenL which was also upgraded from 5.0-9 to 5.3-18.  It also has the empty UXC$UCPN file, so the cleanup_ucx.com would have also been called. Perhaps when it ran,J it ended after having succesfully performed some action, hence the $STSTUSN would be OK, whilst on the second node, execution stopped perhaps due to an onS error then exit of something, which would yield a $STATUS that indicated a failure.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:08:03 -0400'- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n1 Subject: TCPIP installation/management suggestionn, Message-ID: <3D83F989.68039E80@videotron.ca>  K Going from 5.0 to 5.3, there is a LOT of stuff that is added. While this is M cool, I find that the installation procedure (once the bug has been fixed andy$ you can install) is still very weak.  L I find that keeping SYS$MANAGER: clean hard enough, but with all those TCPIP; files in there, it gets more and more difficult to manage. y  J And with all sorts of new goodies arriving, the TCPIP package has grown inG size and number of files sufficiently to be "broken" up in my opinion. o  U I think that users should be prompted for the various components they want to instal.a  
 For instance:    CORE CORE CLIENTS (telnet, FTP etc) BIND SERVER"2 MAIL Applications (SMTP server, POP, IMAP servers)! ACCESS servers (RLOGIN , RPC etc)t    M And then, while the core goes to sys$common:, users should have the choice tol, install the other stuff on different drives.  I For instance, if one has a heterogenous cluster with shared "application"tI drives, you may want to but the bind and the mail server directories on aoJ drive that is common to all nodes instead of having each node have its own) copy of everything on their system drive.s  J And as far as all the various TCPIP procedures in SYS$MANAGER, they reallyN should be put elsewhere, either in their own directory, or in the directory ofN their applications (for instance the imap start and stop should be in the IMAP directory on whatever drive).   N The installation procedure could simply build a small file that lists each theK installed components and their location. The TCPIP$CONFIG and TCPIP$STARTUPPM could then use that file to define the right logicals and move on from there.e  L If this flexibility in installation is not available with PCSI, then upgrade@ the procedure back to VMSINSTAL which does have that capability.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 01:25:22 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.+ Subject: Re: TPU Error using VMS from Linuxo& Message-ID: <3D83E6FC.2223D08@fsi.net>   Hans Vlems wrote:t >  > $ set terminal/inquire > ! > Put it in your login.com file.    D ...but do yourself a favor and make it sensitive either to the loginG mode or the device class of SYS$OUTPUT. For example, you don't wanna dosC that in batch or any other mode where SYS$OUTPUT is not a terminal.8   -- s David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:58:17 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on/ Message-ID: <uo7fo9jpd2i53f@corp.supernews.com>n  3 Jan C. Vorbrggen <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:yM : However, the Unix commands are inconsistent in their usage in pipes anyway.-E : Some need the "-" instead of their input (or output), others don't.m   Example, please?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:38:40 GMT51 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> T Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on  OpenVMS?. Message-ID: <QmLg9.478872$UU1.77508@sccrnsc03>  $ Ability to run Linux and u$oft apps.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.509 ************************ the revenus VMS generates/ are necessary to subsidize his love for wintel.   L I do not know whether My Shannon's recent attitude is designed to confirm toN us that Capellas is a real ennemy of VMS, whether we are considered the ennemyH of VMS, or whether something has happened to Mr Shannon's situation that# forced him to change his behaviour.   M He has the right to his opinions. And over time, I suspect that his situatio@O    AO    BO    CO    DO    EO    FO    GO    HO    IO    JO    KO    LO    MO    NO    OO    PO    QO    RO    SO    TO    UO    VO    WO    XO    YO    ZO    [O    \O    ]O    ^O    _O    `O    aO    bO    cO    dO    eO    fO    gO    hO    iO    jO    kO    lO    mO    nO    oO    pO    qO    rO    sO    tO    uO    vO    wO    xO    yO    zO    {O    |O    }O    ~O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    O    