1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 17 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 513       Contents: Re: "inview" Article	 Re: AD/BC * Re: Alpha + PA-RISC = Itanium Frankenstein4 ANN: ht://Dig 3.1.6 for OpenVMS Release 2 Field Test1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium  BASIC (bug?) Re: BASIC (bug?)A Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group 2 Re: first annual OpenVMS Symposium: Special Guest?2 Re: first annual OpenVMS Symposium: Special Guest?6 Re: re:hoew to address dqa0:(ide-cdrom) under cdrecord6 Re: re:hoew to address dqa0:(ide-cdrom) under cdrecord" Re: how external input is received" Re: how external input is received! Re: How to debug PRODUCT INSTAL ?  HP to announce service changes HP website integration> Re: HTML to browse the Freeware CDs - grab a copy if you wish.. I need Digital KFBTA Winchester formatter test License issue with cluster... ! Re: License issue with cluster...  Re: MAIL suggestion  MAIL suggestion & Re: Mozilla Referer Privacy Leak found Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.$ Re: Non-standard installation of VMS. Re: Opcom when SYSGEN modifies the params file. Re: Opcom when SYSGEN modifies the params file Re: Oracle Problem Re: ORD  Re: ORD  RE: ORD  RE: ORD  Re: ORD % Re: Saveset distribution over the web % Re: Saveset distribution over the web % Re: Saveset distribution over the web  Re: SMTP Authentication  Re: SMTP Authentication  SMTP Authentication  Re: SMTP Authentication  Re: SMTP Authentication  Re: SMTP Authentication  Re: snmp Re: Sybase and VMS Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast! A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on A Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on L Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on   OpenVMS?J Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS?P Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenVP Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenVP Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenV  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:42:10 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: "inview" Article 0 Message-ID: <am51l3$9i9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >=20 >> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:  >>2 >>> But at the same time you manage to give people3 >>> the impression that other vendors do not. Which 3 >>> you ofcourse know are not true. Probably almost 5 >>> every OS vendor except Microsoft supports Apache.  >> >=20 >=20C >> IBM supports WebSphere server, its based on Apache but according 5 >> to the folks who have used it in the bank I advise : >> it has diverged from Apache and they no longer consider >> it to be Apache.  >> >> So thats one who doesn't. >=20 >=20< > IBM HTTP Server which is part of the WebSphere Application7 > Server product (I think IBM would not like the phrase 4 > "WebSphere server, its based on Apache") is Apache@ > and IBM has just added some extra functionality. At least that > is how I read the docs:  >=20' > =3D=3D=3D=3D start quote =3D=3D=3D=3D J > IBM HTTP Server powered by Apache is a Web server based on the Apache=20H > Web server developed by the Apache Group (www.apache.org). IBM HTTP=20J > Server includes some functions not available in the Apache Web server=208 > developed by the Apache Group. IBM HTTP Server offers: >=20  2 Well in that case the people who are trying to get5 Apache/Apache plugins to work in IBM Websphere server < and cannot because it has diverged are obviously delusional.  8 As I said its based on Apache but isn't according to the> people who use both the same as Apache. This extends to things? like Crypto accelerator support where you need an IBM Websphere $ plugin rather than an Apache plugin.  % > Support for SSL secure connections. = > Fast Response Cache Accelerator (Windows NT and AIX only) - J > IBM has extended Apache to work with IBM Fast Response Cache Accelerato= r=20J > (Cache Accelerator). The Cache Accelerator is an in-kernel mini HTTP GE= T=20H > engine and HTTP content cache that enables serving static web pages=20B > significantly faster than Apache web server without the Cache=20I > Accelerator. By default, the Cache Accelerator is enabled. The Cache=20 F > Accelerator can be completely disabled through configuration file=20
 > directives.   , OpenSSL works with Apache now why this would+ be considered to be a WebSphere advantage I  am not sure.      H > WebDAV to collaboratively edit and manage files on remote Web servers.2 > Ability to produce dynamic content with FastCGI.% > =3D=3D=3D=3D end quote =3D=3D=3D=3D  >=20 > I will still call it Apache. >=20  9 Try to get an Apache plugin to work with it, you won't be & calling it Apache for long after that.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Sep 2002 09:37:50 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: AD/BC3 Message-ID: <dNGTPL15+iXn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <b096a4ee.0209121743.7d84683c@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: >  > So what is star date zero? >   F    Julian day 0.  (Noon 1 January 4713 BC/BCE on the Julian Calendar).   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:33:02 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 3 Subject: Re: Alpha + PA-RISC = Itanium Frankenstein G Message-ID: <yYlh9.35641$U_.24098@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message( news:Pj7g9.403773$me6.45862@sccrnsc01... >  > - > > What will be the name of this beast ? :-)  > > GlobalDome ? > I > Nope. Something with a nautical motif. And no, not "Three Sheets to the  > Wind."    " Most likely the "Flying Dutchman".  6 Forever doomed to sail the oceans unmanned and unused.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:07:29 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)= Subject: ANN: ht://Dig 3.1.6 for OpenVMS Release 2 Field Test ; Message-ID: <3d862bf1.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   G The ht://Dig system is a complete world wide web indexing and searching D system for a small domain or intranet. This system is *not* meant toF replace the need for powerful internet-wide search systems like Lycos,D Infoseek, Webcrawler and AltaVista. Instead it is meant to cover theC search needs for a single company, campus, or even a particular sub  section of a web site.  J ht://Dig 3.1.6 for OpenVMS Release 2 is available as a field test version.  % The changes against release 1 include   $   - fixed external_parser processing   - support for cookies '   - new template variable EXECUTIONTIME    - various bugfixes&   - support for https-URLs via OpenSSLJ     (for legal reasons, this is not compiled into the binary distribution)  ! It is available for download from D http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/htdig/ and via anonymous FTP< from ftp.pdv-systeme.de in the folder [.VMS] under the names  .   GNU-AXPVMS-HTDIG-T0301-6R2-3.PCSI-ZIP_AXPEXEJ   (binary distribution; PCSI upgrade kit to V3.1-6 Release 1; 2891 blocks)     HTDIG-3_1_6-VMS-REL2-SRC.ZIP$   (source distribution; 9106 blocks)  $   HTDIG-3_1_6-VMS-REL1_REL2-DIFF.ZIPJ   (GNU diff file against V3.1-6 Release 1 source distribution; 109 blocks)  5 Please direct feedback to <martin@radiogaga.harz.de>.    Enjoy,   Martin  . P.S.: I will be on vacation until 28-SEP-2001. --F                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:01:47 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium, Message-ID: <3D8646AE.604C20E3@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:M >         But who cares?  If $200 difference (is that reasonable?) leaves out K >         6 attendees and the conference is sold out... help me out... what  >         was your point again?   J If you exclude southwest and jetblue, most major airlines what to charge aJ different FAR above $200 for weekday versus weekend travel. In the case foL JFK-LAX, the difference is closer to $1000 between full unrestricted weekday= fares and the low cost fares that require saturday stay over.   L define "conference is sold out". If you set out to get 10 attendees, and youD get 10, then one can consider it a success. But what if changing theM schedule/Location could have gotten you 50 attendees ? That would represent a  500% increase.  L I think that any conference organiser today needs to take into considerationN the various airfares and their restrictions, especially in light of the recentN changes that may result in far more expensive flying. If you mis you flight onN some airlines/tickets, you'll have to buy a brand new ticket to get back home,L and the value of the original ticket isn't re-usable against purchase of the new ticket.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:28:45 -0700 ( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>: Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium- Message-ID: <3D863EFD.3CBC13FF@NelsonUSA.com>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:   > Perhaps over a pint or two...   9 I'll drink to that!   Is this why they want us all in one < hotel?  So nobody will get arrested for drunk driving?   :-)  C This is beginning to sound like a good old-fashioned DECUS meeting.    Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:23:07 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium2 Message-ID: <fPlh9.17$y93.561202@news.cpqcorp.net>  J Foam?  Hmmm.  OK, I guess it's not too late to change the plan ;-) ;-) ;-)  K Seriously though, only a handful of engineers read this newsgroup, and even I those of us who do would still welcome you with open arms.  Pehaps over a H pint or two, we might be able to change minds, or at least find a way to turn down the rhetoric.       = JF Mezei wrote in message <3D8246A4.DEBCA38A@videotron.ca>... L >I think i know why they want us to go to Nashua and meet all the engineers. > H >I have this strange feeling that if I were to show up there, I would beJ >greated by VMS engineers each armed with a foam bat, waiting to pounce on me ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:31:14 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium2 Message-ID: <SWlh9.18$e73.510114@news.cpqcorp.net>  L Logan bites.  Manchester is the way to go, even if it costs a little more toI get there.  It's less than a 30 minute ride to the Tara from the airport, J without all the hassles of getting into and out of Logan.  Southwest fliesL into Manchester, and I find their flights to be cheaper and less of a hassle than the competetors.   I If you want to do anything aside from hanging around at the hotel, you'll K need a car.  Nashua is only modestly mass-transit friendly, and most places $ are a bit more than waling distance.    B Alan Frisbie wrote in message <3D8275DF.179DCD21@NelsonUSA.com>... >Sue Skonetski wrote:  > L >> Hewlett Packard's OpenVMS Engineering organization is pleased to announceL >> the first annual OpenVMS Symposium. The OpenVMS Symposium will take placeE >> November 19-21 2002 at the Sheraton Tara Hotel in Nashua, NH, USA.  > 7 >Now *this* is worth spending time and money to attend! B >I'm sure it will be a much bigger value for the money than HPETS. > B >For those of us who are not in the habit of travelling to Nashua,= >what makes the most sense (when coming from the west coast):  >  >1. Fly to Logan% >   A. Rent a car and drive to Nashua 6 >   B. Take bus/van/(other ground transport) to Nashua
 >   C. ??? > : >2. Fly to Manchester (do those flights go through Logan?)% >   A. Rent a car and drive to Nashua 6 >   B. Take bus/van/(other ground transport) to Nashua
 >   C. ??? >  >3. ???  > @ >It would be nice to hear from the people who live in Nashua and >do this regularly.  >  >Thanks, >Alan    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:35:35 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium2 Message-ID: <X_lh9.19$W93.569380@news.cpqcorp.net>  % Bart Z. Lederman wrote in message ...  > = >There are some flights to Portsmouth, but getting from there = >to Nashua is probably a lot more difficult than from Boston. & >Driving is probably your only option. > 3 >Personally, I don't fly anymore, I take the train.  >   E Getting from here to Portsmouth isn't too bad now that 101 is divided H highway all the way from 93 to Rt 3 and the Everett Turnpike.  But AFAIKL only a few Delta flights go in and out of there.  Logan (without traffic) is2 a shorter ride, but Manchester is the best option.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:39:49 GMT , From: "Ken Randell" <ken.randell@fortel.com>: Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium4 Message-ID: <FJvh9.247$GO2.156@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>  L > Well, I'm gonna get another spanking since the Powers That Be have ordered< > me to eschew making comments in this thread, but so be it.  * In the words of our favorite VMS debugger:   Eh?   D Doesn't sound like the Charlie Matco of the past.  I think if he had something to say, he would.    In no certain order:    1) Who are the 'Powers That Be'? 2) Why do you care?    Just being nosey.    Ken Randell    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:45:03 GMT , From: "Ken Randell" <ken.randell@fortel.com>: Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium3 Message-ID: <zOvh9.251$GO2.41@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>   J This sounds like a very good idea.  A few questions, please and thank-you.  L 1) Approximately how many people can attend this event?  How many folks have registered thus far?% 2) When will registration be cut off? L 3) Even if folks can't attend the symposium, has consideration been given toJ allowing them access to the NDA presentations if that person/company signsL an NDA either before or after the event?  It would seem that the informationL presented would be handy to just more than those folks who attend; there areH perhaps some who are already committed to going to HP-ETS before we knewG this event was in the works, and can only swing one event for the fall.  Budgets are like that.   Thanks.    Ken Randell    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:52:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium, Message-ID: <3D861A50.83BEBA4E@videotron.ca>   "Bart Z. Lederman" wrote: @ > Back when I was more involved with user society meetings, mostA > people wanted the meeting to be held on a week day: they wanted / > the weekend free to be with their families.     N But now that budgets are more restrictive, shouldn't meetings be arranged suchN that one can take advantage of the lower airfares if you stay a saturday nightP ? (not everyone has Southwest or Jetblue service available from their hometown).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:03:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium, Message-ID: <3D861CE8.9BCA8E66@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > If you want to do anything aside from hanging around at the hotel, you'll M > need a car.  Nashua is only modestly mass-transit friendly, and most places & > are a bit more than waling distance.  J But surely Sue or any VMS engineer would offer to drive participants where they want to go ?    :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Sep 2002 12:55:56 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium3 Message-ID: <sfOvOrL8W2S1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3D861A50.83BEBA4E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > "Bart Z. Lederman" wrote: A >> Back when I was more involved with user society meetings, most B >> people wanted the meeting to be held on a week day: they wanted0 >> the weekend free to be with their families.   > P > But now that budgets are more restrictive, shouldn't meetings be arranged suchP > that one can take advantage of the lower airfares if you stay a saturday nightR > ? (not everyone has Southwest or Jetblue service available from their hometown).    ' 	Ah.. but as you set out to tweek it...   B 	Since there are more flights into Boston, they should have it in B 	Boston as engineers could surely drive down to Boston.  Secondly,> 	try to find arriving or departing flights to Manchester NH on@ 	Southwest... they are very few and far between and are from few 	sites:   0 http://www.southwest.com/cgi-bin/requestSchedule  E 	I found Los Angeles so maybe you fly to Los Angeles on Southwest to   	get to Manchester NH.  D 	But who cares?  If $200 difference (is that reasonable?) leaves outB 	6 attendees and the conference is sold out... help me out... what 	was your point again?     				Rob     B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonder G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstream > The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  -                                 -- Neil Young    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Sep 2002 13:56:41 -0700" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) Subject: BASIC (bug?) = Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0209161256.637ded73@posting.google.com>   ! BASIC V1.2-000 on OpenVMS 7.1-1H2  BASIC V1.4-000 on OpenVMS 7.3   > Can someone come up with a plausible explanation as to why the' compiler doesn't barf on the following:      option type = explicit  # declare long     constant false = 0 # declare integer  constant false = 0    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:32:38 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: BASIC (bug?) , Message-ID: <3D868630.1A033061@videotron.ca>  ' > > declare long     constant false = 0 ' > > declare integer  constant false = 0   N Is it possible that the compiler will just overwrite the first with the second definition ?  3 What happens if you have   long constant false = 1    					 integer constant false = 2  L Would the compiler then complain ? And inside the program, what values would	 be used ?   N Is it possible that in your program, all arguments are strongly typed and if aI function requires a long, then the "long" false will be passed, and if it 4 requires a integer, then the integer will be passed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:52:46 -0700 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>J Subject: Re: Curly's wisdom on how to handle HP's Enterprise Systems Group/ Message-ID: <uod67miu8c462f@corp.supernews.com>     From today's Register:   O (Perens calls his departure more of a amicable decision -- The New York Times'  @ description of it as a firing was a bit overblown, Perens says).   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:41:15 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>; Subject: Re: first annual OpenVMS Symposium: Special Guest? . Message-ID: <3D85DF7B.A4864EE4@mindspring.com>   "C.W.Holeman II" wrote:   G > OK. Have Dave Cutler show up and reveal which lines of VMS and VAXELN  > are in Windows-NT.  # As the kid said in "Terminator II":        "All of them."   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:41:38 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>; Subject: Re: first annual OpenVMS Symposium: Special Guest? . Message-ID: <3D85DF92.86E53F6F@mindspring.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  Y > In article <3D823502.A9B0F48A@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:  > = > > Maybe HPlovesVMS could invite Ken Olsen to the Symposium?  > I > Or maybe they could stick to their promise and restrict it to technical  > sessions.   . Gee, Larry, don't you have *ANY* fun any more?   Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:30:00 GMT # From: "mhr" <mreilly36@comcast.net> ? Subject: Re: re:hoew to address dqa0:(ide-cdrom) under cdrecord A Message-ID: <cGnh9.69562$z91.2704163@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   G I have the dq driver installed; I'm trying to set the device target for J cdrecord, such as dev=0,4,0 for a scsi. By the way, your DVD program worksF great, just trying to see if cd-rw with ide drives would work as well. Thanks mhr H "Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann" <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote in@ message news:00A140EC.F3B9EF2A.1@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE... > Hi,  > K > >As the subject says: How do I set up cdrecord to write to a ide (master)   > >cd-rw from ide on DPWS500AU ? > - > 1. Install the dqdriver from Freeware V5.0.  > D > 2. If the drive is not been recognized after a reboot, you have toE >    start a command procedure, that installs and starts the dqdriver B >    properly. Then, as already mentioned, you have an old chipset@ >    in your machine that prevents a boot from an IDE-drive. ButB >    if you install the driver (a command-procedure comes with the< >    drdriver-source) the CD/DVD works without any problems. > 
 > eberhard >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Sep 2002 19:19:19 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)? Subject: Re: re:hoew to address dqa0:(ide-cdrom) under cdrecord * Message-ID: <am5arn$qmf$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  g In article <cGnh9.69562$z91.2704163@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "mhr" <mreilly36@comcast.net> writes: H :I have the dq driver installed; I'm trying to set the device target forK :cdrecord, such as dev=0,4,0 for a scsi. By the way, your DVD program works G :great, just trying to see if cd-rw with ide drives would work as well.   L   If you do not have a DKA400: device around, try defining the DKA400 stringL   as a logical name translating to your DQ device name, and use "dev=0,4,0".J   Alternatively, the device parsing within the CDRECORD tool could also beJ   modified as the tool (eventually) constructs the DK device name.  SearchM   for DK, and replace it with DQ.  (The command option parsing implementation L   within CDRECORD is somewhat more involved than I had expected, though thisJ   is apparently a direct outcome of the structuring of the CDRECORD code.)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:46:54 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>+ Subject: Re: how external input is received - Message-ID: <3D85E0CE.3056B9E@mindspring.com>   / Well, someone could always phone/eMail Capellas ) and ask him what he though of the letter.    Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:35:02 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: how external input is received ' Message-ID: <3D868C55.67F460E1@fsi.net>    Atlant Schmidt wrote:  > 1 > Well, someone could always phone/eMail Capellas + > and ask him what he though of the letter.   3 Have you tried reaching by either means? Good luck!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:57:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Re: How to debug PRODUCT INSTAL ?, Message-ID: <3D861B85.5D49BDE4@videotron.ca>   Charlie Hammond wrote:C > If you don't have a kit that does this, you can copy the kit to a A > reference format (see HELP PRODUCT COPY /FORMAT) and modify the D > particular execute prodecure (@psci$source:[sysmgr]cleanup_ucx.comE > in this case) to turn on verify.  You can install directly from the F > modified reference format kit, or copy it back to sequential format.  N Thanks. I hadn't thought of that. I started off by extracting individual filesJ and learning about PCSI and in doing so, found the bug which I was able toK counter while  PRODUCT was running. (and advantage of a slow microvax II is N that you have plenty of time to change stuff done by the procedure while it is running :-)   F But next time, i will keep in mind the ability to simply convert it to3 reference format where making changes is very easy.   K >       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA   4 Wasn't it Hoff who was dreaming to move to florida ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:26:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: HP to announce service changes , Message-ID: <3D86BCF2.27370E01@videotron.ca>  4 H-P To Announce 'Significant' Services News Tuesday      9/16/02 10:05am   J   NEW YORK -(Dow Jones)- Hewlett-Packard Co. (HPQ) said it will announce "E significant" news regarding its technology services business Tuesday.   J   In a media advisory Monday, H-P said it would hold a press conference atJ 10:30 a.m. EDT Tuesday to announce the news. Ann Livermore, executive vice5 president of HP Services, will make the announcement.   3   An H-P spokesman couldn't immediately be reached.   H   Last month, Juergen Rottler, vice president of marketing, strategy andN alliances at H-P Services,  said the company expected to announce new customer contracts in September.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:36:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: HP website integration , Message-ID: <3D86BF5A.1BA33D52@videotron.ca>  N On may 7th, when Carly and Curly gave birth, Winkler made a big deal about the+ integration of the two company's web sites.   E Today, I noticed the following press release about some wintel stuff:   D HP Introduces Space-saving PCs, Thin Clients and Flat Panel Monitors   for Business Users   <...>   L More information about the Compaq Evo D510 e-pc and Compaq Evo D310v desktop PC is 7   available at http://www.compaq.com/products/desktops.   N So, 6 months after the birth of the new HP, 6 months after Winkler had braggedJ about having integrated the two company's web sites, it seems that the web& sites are not so integrated after all.  M Has HP decided that the "Compaq" brand was more important than the HP brand ? G Or have they stumbled onto various problems that prevented true product 9 integration between the compaq and hp folks/departments ?    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Sep 2002 18:54:13 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)G Subject: Re: HTML to browse the Freeware CDs - grab a copy if you wish. * Message-ID: <am59cl$m28$4@web1.cup.hp.com>  U In article <hqNGgysqUuwY@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: H :During a search through the VMS Freeware CDs recently, a colleague came> :up with a couple of bits of HTML to make browing them easier. : : :Feel free to grab copies from http://www.sture.homeip.net : ; :The version I have put up points to the online Freeware at : :www.openvms.compaq.com. Feel free to grab copies and edit :according to your own needs.   H   I am seeking a replacement for the existing character-cell menu systemK   presently used for the OpenVMS Freeware, and submissions of a replacement H   HTML-based menuing system would be appreciated.  (The existing menuingD   system is good, but does not particularly lend itself to the web.)  E   For details on what is presently involved, the tools that I use to  H   generate the various menuing-related data files are themselves present   on the Freeware:  ?     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/freeware/   H   I have various updates I'd like to add to the generator tools, not theG   least of which is to detect and to report any directories lacking the &   (required) Freeware_Readme.Txt file.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:20:46 +0200 " From: "strsha" <nebojsam@eunet.yu>7 Subject: I need Digital KFBTA Winchester formatter test ( Message-ID: <am4m06$8h4$1@news.eunet.yu>  . I need Digital KFBTA Winchester formatter test Thanks in advanced Nebojsa    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:18:02 GMT - From: jclausen@co.walker.tx.us (John Clausen) & Subject: License issue with cluster.../ Message-ID: <JCmh9.3$w5.66946@news.randori.com>   M I am using a Hobbyist license for OpenVMS and would like to set up a cluster.   O Creating the cluster is not a problem, however I loose my VAX-VMS license when   I do.   M Is the Hobbyist licensing just now going to work, or is there something I am   missing.   Thanks,    John Clausen   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Sep 2002 18:45:48 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: License issue with cluster...* Message-ID: <am58ss$m28$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  _ In article <JCmh9.3$w5.66946@news.randori.com>, jclausen@co.walker.tx.us (John Clausen) writes: N :I am using a Hobbyist license for OpenVMS and would like to set up a cluster. : P :Creating the cluster is not a problem, however I loose my VAX-VMS license when  :I do. : N :Is the Hobbyist licensing just now going to work, or is there something I am 	 :missing.   K   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ section "Resolving License PAK Problems?" as a J   start.  On no evidence, I'm going to guess that you have multiple systemK   disks and multiple license databases, and no LMF$LICENSE logical name, or J   you have mutiple databases and have not used the /INCLUDE specification.;   (These and other possibilities are discussed in the FAQ.)   M   As you have omitted various details in your posting, I would also encourage K   a quick review of the OpenVMS FAQ section "What is etiquette?" -- without L   these details, folks can have great difficulty answering your question(s).K   Using the tips and suggestions from this section of the FAQ, you can help @   improve your chances of getting a speedy (and correct) answer.     No offense is intended.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 00:56:35 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)  Subject: Re: MAIL suggestion+ Message-ID: <am5uk3$5hq$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   [ In article <3D862EC8.1C7486E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: O >We all know that it is inevitable that the VMS engineers will eventually start P >work to bring vms MAIL into the 21st century with decent support for internet.  > G >One suggestion I have is the ability to QUICKLY hide/show the internet2H >headers. On the GUI, just a simple button. On character cell interface,I >perhaps a control key would toggle the display and redisplay the currents >message in the new "format".t >f  K Although I sympathise with the idea of hiding the headers (or as some usersuB would say getting rid of all that crud at the top of the message).D You must make it very easy for the user to display those headers andL most importantly to be able to forward those headers along with the message.  N This is a real problem with some mail clients. If your ever in the position ofH having to track the path a piece of spam has taken to get to one of yourK users and need to see the received headers you'll be really grateful if its)1 easy for them to display and forward the headers.s  y  L >Another "must" is to be able to specify some basic RFC fields (optionally),N >such as Reply-to: when composing or replying to an email. (and when replying,K >one must be able to edit the envelope to perhaps add more recipients etc).   K Of course you must be able to add more recipients. You must also be able togJ reply just to the sender or to all the recipients and, in the latter case,F to remove recipients. You must also have a BCC as well as the CC line.      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:19:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: MAIL suggestion+ Message-ID: <3D862EC8.1C7486E@videotron.ca>o  N We all know that it is inevitable that the VMS engineers will eventually startO work to bring vms MAIL into the 21st century with decent support for internet.    F One suggestion I have is the ability to QUICKLY hide/show the internetG headers. On the GUI, just a simple button. On character cell interface,tH perhaps a control key would toggle the display and redisplay the current message in the new "format".  K Another "must" is to be able to specify some basic RFC fields (optionally),iM such as Reply-to: when composing or replying to an email. (and when replying,uJ one must be able to edit the envelope to perhaps add more recipients etc).   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Sep 2002 12:13:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) / Subject: Re: Mozilla Referer Privacy Leak founda3 Message-ID: <PF4bhLy4BZtf@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  U In article <aUIEUrsQErQ1@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:e  . > You need to enable JavaScript for this bug.   G So Mozilla seems quite similar to Netscape Communicator in this regard.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:58:51 -0400i2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.u. Message-ID: <3D85E39B.C65E7730@mindspring.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  1 > > It turns out that many of those "attrocities"o2 > > (e.g., "babies tossed out of incubators so the* > > incubators could be moved to Baghdad")5 > > never existed except in the minds of a particularo3 > > PR firm that was hired to promote the war. And,o1 > > BTW, that same PR firm is still in the employ>" > > of some of the factions today. >oE > I think you'll find that these attrocities were documented (photos, F > eye-witnesses, survivors, dying declarations of victims, etc.) quite
 > thoroughly.s  ( Well, yes, they were documented *IF* you( want to take the word of the young woman- who first claimed them but then turned out to , be part of the Kuwaiti royal family, a group, with a definite vested interest in having us* come to Kuwait and save their royal a**es.  ( A quick Google will get you the details.   Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:32:21 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>)! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.d' Message-ID: <3D868BB1.D794819A@fsi.net>    Atlant Schmidt wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > 3 > > > It turns out that many of those "attrocities"W4 > > > (e.g., "babies tossed out of incubators so the, > > > incubators could be moved to Baghdad")7 > > > never existed except in the minds of a particular 5 > > > PR firm that was hired to promote the war. And,u3 > > > BTW, that same PR firm is still in the employ $ > > > of some of the factions today. > >aG > > I think you'll find that these attrocities were documented (photos,iH > > eye-witnesses, survivors, dying declarations of victims, etc.) quite > > thoroughly.e > * > Well, yes, they were documented *IF* you* > want to take the word of the young woman/ > who first claimed them but then turned out tot. > be part of the Kuwaiti royal family, a group. > with a definite vested interest in having us, > come to Kuwait and save their royal a**es.  H Well, unless she was accompanied by the vangard of the US troops, a filmG crew, and teams of reporters and photographers, I'm sure you're talking  about something else entirely.  F PLEASE! Go to the library and look it up. Remember, the Internet was aG "what's that?" thing back in the Gulf War days - I'm fairly certain youC won't find it on-line.   -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:52:24 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>- Subject: Re: Non-standard installation of VMSo5 Message-ID: <am599a$2s0vh$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>e  > "Konstantin Klubnichkin" <kostik@beenet.ru> schreef in bericht" news:3D85CE48.7000402@beenet.ru...	 > Hi ppl!, >uE > I have Hobbyist CD now but still have no CDROM for my uVAX-3100/40.HD > I have 2 disks inside and VMS 5.5-2 installed. Also I have network/ > (DECNET & IP) on VAX and DECNET on Linux box.eI > So when I looked into "OpenVMS hobbyist guide" I saw that after bootingo > system from CD user has to do1: > BACKUP/IMAGE <CDROM_DEVICE>:VMS072.B/SAVE <SYSTEM_DISK>:J > Idea is to put all images from CD to second (non-system) disk via DECNETD > from Linux box, boot system up from second disk (it's bootable andG > contains VMS 5.5-2 too) and restore saveset  VMS072.B to system disk.J$ > Is it possible way to install VMS? > Any suggestions? >IA If disk space is no problem, then my approach would be like this:rI - copy the VMS072.% file to the V5.5-2 system disk. Make sure they are inrJ directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[0000000] (assume that SYS$SYSDEVICE translates to dka100:)J - make an image backup of the data disk; assume this second disk is called dka300:o7 - backup/image sys$sysdevice:[0,0]vms072.b/save dka300:t   At this point you :c  a) still have a valid 5.5-2 disk b) a bootable 7.2 kernel  G If that feels all right, stop the running 5.5-2 system and >>> B dka3000H That'll boot the 7.2 kernel and it will ask for the distribution device. That is of course dka100.lF The installation will continue, ask a few fairly trivial questions and you're done.  L So now you have 5.5-2 on dka100 and 7.2 on dka300. You might want to make anF image backup of dka300, that'll save you the time of reinstalling VMS.  ' Does this answer the question somewhat?s   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:13:44 GMTr+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>u7 Subject: Re: Opcom when SYSGEN modifies the params filet< Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0209161309260.1230-100000@jaipur>  ( This sounds like a security thing to me:   $ set aud/ala/en=sysgenn $ mcr sysman SYSMAN> par use active SYSMAN> par sho quantume( Node QUARRY:   Parameters in use: ACTIVEG Parameter Name            Current    Default    Minimum    Maximum Units DynamicoG --------------            -------    -------    -------    ------- ----  -------wG QUANTUM                        20         20          2      32767 10Msv Ds   SYSMAN> par set quantum 30 SYSMAN> par sho quantumX( Node QUARRY:   Parameters in use: ACTIVEG Parameter Name            Current    Default    Minimum    Maximum Unit  Dynamic-G --------------            -------    -------    -------    ------- ----_ -------EG QUANTUM                        30         20          2      32767 10Msb Do     No security alarm.   SYSMAN> par use current@ SYSMAN> par sho quantumn) Node QUARRY:   Parameters in use: CURRENToG Parameter Name            Current    Default    Minimum    Maximum Unit| DynamicNG --------------            -------    -------    -------    ------- ----o -------nG QUANTUM                        20         20          2      32767 10Ms  D    SYSMAN> par set quantum 30 SYSMAN> par write current-8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  16-SEP-2002 20:08:08.06  %%%%%%%%%%%( Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on QUARRY5 Security alarm (SECURITY) on QUARRY, system id: 10256m. Auditable event:          SYSGEN parameter set1 Event time:               16-SEP-2002 20:08:08.06 " PID:                      3060C294  Process name:             RMOORE  Username:                 RMOORE" Process owner:            [RMOORE]! Terminal name:            LTA9203eG Image name:               $1$DUA500:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXEr? Parameters write:         SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;3 ? Parameters inuse:         SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;3t& QUANTUM:                  New:      30&                           Original: 20   SYSMAN> par use currentd SYSMAN> par sho quantumg) Node QUARRY:   Parameters in use: CURRENTcG Parameter Name            Current    Default    Minimum    Maximum Unitl DynamictG --------------            -------    -------    -------    ------- ----  -------cG QUANTUM                        30         20          2      32767 10Msi Dr   SYSMAN> par set quantum 20 SYSMAN> par write currente8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  16-SEP-2002 20:08:41.70  %%%%%%%%%%%( Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on QUARRY5 Security alarm (SECURITY) on QUARRY, system id: 10256k. Auditable event:          SYSGEN parameter set1 Event time:               16-SEP-2002 20:08:41.70 " PID:                      3060C294  Process name:             RMOORE  Username:                 RMOORE" Process owner:            [RMOORE]! Terminal name:            LTA9203mG Image name:               $1$DUA500:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE:? Parameters write:         SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;3t? Parameters inuse:         SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;3s& QUANTUM:                  New:      20&                           Original: 30    G I believe there's also an OPCOM message sent by AUTOGEN when it changes1I parameters.  Something along the lines of "modified parameters written toc disk" or something like that.h  $ On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, JF Mezei wrote:  L > I used to have some alarm generated on OPA0: (not a security alarm, but anY > OPCOM message) whenever SYSGEN wrote the VAXVMSSYS.PAR file (eg: SYSGEN> write current)  >d: > I just noticed that this doesn't seem to happen anymore. >oO > It has been so long since I had set this up that I forgot where to set it. IsiI > it a SYSGEN parameter (such as the mountmsg)  ? or some form of alarm ?o >i% > or has that facility been removed ?c >.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:55:26 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>I7 Subject: Re: Opcom when SYSGEN modifies the params filee, Message-ID: <3D864531.354A66A4@videotron.ca>   Ryan Moore wrote:-I > I believe there's also an OPCOM message sent by AUTOGEN when it changesFK > parameters.  Something along the lines of "modified parameters written toi > disk" or something like that.s  K Yep, that is the one I used to have. I should take out my paper doc (5.5-2)hK and check the sysgen doc to see if I might recognise the parameter and then3 see if 7.2 still has it.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:15:32 GMTg< From: rickm.remove-this@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rick Millhollin) Subject: Re: Oracle Problem 1 Message-ID: <3d862d91.617028480@news.uoregon.edu>   ? Thanks for the feedback folks, I've passed it along to our DBA.r    1 Rick Millhollin, Director of Computing Facilitieso@ University of Oregon Computing Center, Eugene, Oregon 97403-12120 Phone: (541)346-1730  FAX: (541)346-6438 or 4397C E-mail: rickm123@oregon456.uoregon789.edu (remove anti-spam digits)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:38:11 -0400s2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: ORD. Message-ID: <3D85DEC3.2F84DF3C@mindspring.com>   Tom Linden wrote:h  / > It isn't flamewars, it is the ennui of boringw+ > irrelevant topics, also known as bullshit    Ahh well...r  * One person's "boring irrelevant topics" is* another person's concerns about the spread. of aggression that could easily lead to Global Thermonuclear War.  , So how do disaster-tolerant clusters survive) multiple 10 megaton H-bomb strikes across  the entire MAN?l   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Sep 2002 14:30:54 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)n Subject: Re: ORD= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0209161330.76a03fc1@posting.google.com>e  h Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3D85DEC3.2F84DF3C@mindspring.com>.... > So how do disaster-tolerant clusters survive+ > multiple 10 megaton H-bomb strikes acrossm > the entire MAN?n  @ By having at least one site hundreds of miles away from (and notF downwind of) any potential nuclear targets, possibly even located in aE different country entirely.  With DTCS, VMS Clusters support sites upaB to 500 miles (800 km) apart, or 150 miles (250 km) out-of-the-box.  F Putting two sites in the same metropolitan area is common because it'sF relatively inexpensive and convenient, but that practice increases the? chances of certain risks being common to both datacenters.  ForvF example, protecting your Manhattan cluster with a site just across theD river in New Jersey is a whole lot better than nothing, but not veryC good for protecting against nuclear attacks (or a tsunami coming up F the Hudson River after an earthquake).  I know of at least one company? that has moved a datacenter completely out of the New York City  metropolitan area since 9/11.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:04:57 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o Subject: RE: ORD9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEODFLAA.tom@kednos.com>g  8 Well, discussions of what the three char designation for? a particular airport might be doesn't strike me as particularlye; germane to that of a list presumably dedicated to technicalo discussions relating to VMS.   >-----Original Message------: >From: Atlant Schmidt [mailto:atlantnospam@mindspring.com]) >Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 6:38 AM> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: ORDV >S >o >Tom Linden wrote: >90 >> It isn't flamewars, it is the ennui of boring, >> irrelevant topics, also known as bullshit >n >Ahh well... >)+ >One person's "boring irrelevant topics" iss+ >another person's concerns about the spread / >of aggression that could easily lead to GlobalE >Thermonuclear War.t > - >So how do disaster-tolerant clusters survive * >multiple 10 megaton H-bomb strikes across >the entire MAN? >a >Atlant  >N >e >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).t@ >Version: 6.0.385 / Virus Database: 217 - Release Date: 9/4/2002 >t --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.385 / Virus Database: 217 - Release Date: 9/4/2002-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:11:33 -0700F# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: ORD9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEOEFLAA.tom@kednos.com>8  @ Neutrons can causing "browning" of optical fiber by dislocation,B effectively creating an optical notch filter.  So you should underB these circumstances know if your signals are inside or outside the) affected spectrum, otherwise, no cluster.u     >-----Original Message-----i9 >From: Keith Parris [mailto:keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com]k) >Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 2:31 PMa >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: ORDs >r >t? >Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message -+ >news:<3D85DEC3.2F84DF3C@mindspring.com>...2/ >> So how do disaster-tolerant clusters surviveo, >> multiple 10 megaton H-bomb strikes across >> the entire MAN? >eA >By having at least one site hundreds of miles away from (and not:G >downwind of) any potential nuclear targets, possibly even located in auF >different country entirely.  With DTCS, VMS Clusters support sites upC >to 500 miles (800 km) apart, or 150 miles (250 km) out-of-the-box.e > G >Putting two sites in the same metropolitan area is common because it's G >relatively inexpensive and convenient, but that practice increases theS@ >chances of certain risks being common to both datacenters.  ForG >example, protecting your Manhattan cluster with a site just across theDE >river in New Jersey is a whole lot better than nothing, but not veryBD >good for protecting against nuclear attacks (or a tsunami coming upG >the Hudson River after an earthquake).  I know of at least one companyc@ >that has moved a datacenter completely out of the New York City >metropolitan area since 9/11. >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).a@ >Version: 6.0.385 / Virus Database: 217 - Release Date: 9/4/2002 >y ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.385 / Virus Database: 217 - Release Date: 9/4/2002a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:13:00 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: ORD+ Message-ID: <3D86738B.946D604@videotron.ca>S   Keith Parris wrote:rB > By having at least one site hundreds of miles away from (and notH > downwind of) any potential nuclear targets, possibly even located in a > different country entirely.   D Wouldn't there be significant data-privacy issues with locating yourI customer's data in a different country ? Or is this usually a pretty easyl; issue to deal with as long as you follow some basic rules ?e  M Have there been any issues with the many US companies that have moves many ITi1 functions to India with regards to data privacy ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:38:28 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>r. Subject: Re: Saveset distribution over the web$ Message-ID: <3d8641a4$1@news.si.com>  H >Also, I am not sure if this still works, but I *think* at one point you couldSG >specify /BLOCKSIZE in the backup command and this essentially sets the  recordI >lenbth of the save set file. If you set it to 512, the  system receivingn theeI >file would create a binary file with fixed 512 attribute (for TYPE IMAGEe file)iJ >and that would let BACKUP use the file out of the box. Haven't tried this in a >long time though.  H And a good thing, too, since a block size of 2048 is the smallest BACKUP will allow.m --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Sep 2002 21:31:22 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: Saveset distribution over the web* Message-ID: <am5ija$1et$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  c In article <1032040960.921194@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>, "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com> writes:   K :I hope I could grab a little of your thoughts on web based distribution of- :VMS Software. o  F   I would not directly provide BACKUP savesets for FTP downloads -- myH   experience indicates that even with the ";type=" tag that is discussedF   in the OpenVMS FAQ section "How do I fix a corrupt BACKUP saveset?",C   you'll still regularly end up describing how to fix busted BACKUPeD   savesets using the other information included in that same section
   of the FAQ.   H   For FTP downloads of BACKUP savesets, I would use self-extracting Zip G   kits, created with a current version of Zip and with the "-V" option.aH   (For details on creating self-extracting Zip kits, please see the Zip E   documentation on the OpenVMS Freeware V5 website or see the similarlE   documentation at any of the other Zip sites referenced in the FAQ.)e  I   Never trust any particular browser to be consistent with its processingIG   of any unrecognized file extension -- some will transfer unrecognized I   file extensions using FTP text mode, and some will transfer these usingmE   FTP binary.  (And then the vendors and the users can add their own eA   customized file extension handling, further complicating this.)l  H   With the self-extracting Zip kits, these downloadable files will be ofH   a recognized executable (and easily downloadable) type, will be fairlyD   compact in size, will extract cleanly, and (most importantly) will3   produce functional BACKUP savesets when expanded.,    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:58:10 +0100=+ From: "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com>m. Subject: Re: Saveset distribution over the web5 Message-ID: <1032213083.976342@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>    > >H) > Care to share your new found knowledge?e > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland3  L I think most of it has been said already..use ZIP to distribute. I'm looking3 into the self extracting option too...thanks David.   G Tom also send me a script that can reset the VMS atributes on a saveset  should I need it!    It's been a help..thanks all!a   Andy   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:49:06 +0000 (UTC)d- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)o  Subject: Re: SMTP Authentication. Message-ID: <am5932$e78$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Carmine Castiglia" <ccast@optonline.net> writes in article <2Aoh9.1491$_t6.599537762@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com> dated Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:31:42 GMT:E >I am sorry if this has been answered here before but I am on a tight1' >schedule and research time is limited.s > G >Using OpenVMS v7.1-1H2 and UCX.   I push outgoing internet (SMTP) mailrJ >through a mailserver (Mercury/32) which runs on a Windows box on the sameJ >network.  To solve some problems with open relaying, I absolutely need toG >tell Mercury/32 to allow only "authenticated smtp users' to send mail.gI >Problem: is it possible to configure UCX to use SMTP Authentication whena >sending mail?  G I don't think so.  I have a very recent UCX (Compaq TCP/IP Services foryL OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3), and the configuration options don't include any username/password.    K I don't know anything about Mercury/32, but can't you tell it that your VMSaC box is an authorized gateway?  I mean, maybe you can force all your(J employees to authenticate, but you can't force your clients, so any decent- SMTP server will allow unauthenticated peers.t  J HPQ sells a premium server software package that might have what you need.I I forget the name, but when I asked about IMAP a couple of years ago, the J Compaq guy said they probably wouldn't add it to UCX because it might hurt sales of the premium product.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org.> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:23:50 +0000 (UTC) - From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)-  Subject: Re: SMTP Authentication. Message-ID: <am5llm$ek0$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  } hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes in article <am5c72$qmf$2@web1.cup.hp.com> dated 16 Sep 2002 19:42:26 GMT:oL >:HPQ sells a premium server software package that might have what you need.K >:I forget the name, but when I asked about IMAP a couple of years ago, the0L >:Compaq guy said they probably wouldn't add it to UCX because it might hurt  >:sales of the premium product.  >sD >  IMAP is now part of current OpenVMS and TCP/IP Services releases.  % I knew that, but I still want to say:p            THAT PLEASES ME GREATLY!  J It goes to show that if you wait long enough, all software worth having is' free (or at least bundled with the OS).   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:31:42 GMTF/ From: "Carmine Castiglia" <ccast@optonline.net>R Subject: SMTP AuthenticationA Message-ID: <2Aoh9.1491$_t6.599537762@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>   D I am sorry if this has been answered here before but I am on a tight& schedule and research time is limited.  F Using OpenVMS v7.1-1H2 and UCX.   I push outgoing internet (SMTP) mailI through a mailserver (Mercury/32) which runs on a Windows box on the samenI network.  To solve some problems with open relaying, I absolutely need totF tell Mercury/32 to allow only "authenticated smtp users' to send mail.H Problem: is it possible to configure UCX to use SMTP Authentication when
 sending mail?i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:08:26 GMT / From: "Carmine Castiglia" <ccast@optonline.net>e  Subject: Re: SMTP AuthenticationA Message-ID: <K_ph9.1516$P77.602188895@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>d   Keith,  I > I don't know anything about Mercury/32, but can't you tell it that youry VMS  > box is an authorized gateway?t  H Yes, I had to dig through the options but I think that I have it working) correctly now.  Thanks for your thoughts.-        : "Keith A. Lewis" <lewis@spyder.mitre.org> wrote in message( news:am5932$e78$1@newslocal.mitre.org...= > "Carmine Castiglia" <ccast@optonline.net> writes in articleEL <2Aoh9.1491$_t6.599537762@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com> dated Mon, 16 Sep 2002
 17:31:42 GMT: G > >I am sorry if this has been answered here before but I am on a tightn) > >schedule and research time is limited.o > >sI > >Using OpenVMS v7.1-1H2 and UCX.   I push outgoing internet (SMTP) maillL > >through a mailserver (Mercury/32) which runs on a Windows box on the sameL > >network.  To solve some problems with open relaying, I absolutely need toI > >tell Mercury/32 to allow only "authenticated smtp users' to send mail.hK > >Problem: is it possible to configure UCX to use SMTP Authentication whenP > >sending mail? >cI > I don't think so.  I have a very recent UCX (Compaq TCP/IP Services for-J > OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3), and the configuration options don't include anyi > username/password. >oI > I don't know anything about Mercury/32, but can't you tell it that yourd VMSnE > box is an authorized gateway?  I mean, maybe you can force all your L > employees to authenticate, but you can't force your clients, so any decent/ > SMTP server will allow unauthenticated peers.s >fL > HPQ sells a premium server software package that might have what you need.K > I forget the name, but when I asked about IMAP a couple of years ago, thepL > Compaq guy said they probably wouldn't add it to UCX because it might hurt > sales of the premium product.s >t- > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgl@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Sep 2002 19:42:26 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: SMTP Authentication* Message-ID: <am5c72$qmf$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  ^ In article <am5932$e78$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes: :"Carmine Castiglia" <ccast@optonline.net> writes in article <2Aoh9.1491$_t6.599537762@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com> dated Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:31:42 GMT:gF :>I am sorry if this has been answered here before but I am on a tight( :>schedule and research time is limited. :>! :>Using OpenVMS v7.1-1H2 and UCX.t    F   Ancient stuff.  Please upgrade to product releases with either Prior0   Version Support or Standard Support available.      E :>                               I push outgoing internet (SMTP) mailnK :>through a mailserver (Mercury/32) which runs on a Windows box on the sameeK :>network.  To solve some problems with open relaying, I absolutely need toeH :>tell Mercury/32 to allow only "authenticated smtp users' to send mail.J :>Problem: is it possible to configure UCX to use SMTP Authentication when :>sending mail?b  G   I've not heard that this RFC 2554 SASL option is available within theiJ   SMTP server provided with any shipping TCP/IP Services version.  (AFAIK,I   if you should telnet to and send the EHLO to the SMTP Server, you won'trE   see the 250 AUTH response -- that response would indicate support.)r  H :I don't think so.  I have a very recent UCX (Compaq TCP/IP Services forM :OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3), and the configuration options don't include any  :username/password.  n :oL :I don't know anything about Mercury/32, but can't you tell it that your VMSD :box is an authorized gateway?  I mean, maybe you can force all yourK :employees to authenticate, but you can't force your clients, so any decento. :SMTP server will allow unauthenticated peers.    8   Correct; you will have to resolve this on the gateway.    K :HPQ sells a premium server software package that might have what you need.-J :I forget the name, but when I asked about IMAP a couple of years ago, theK :Compaq guy said they probably wouldn't add it to UCX because it might hurts :sales of the premium product. y    C   IMAP is now part of current OpenVMS and TCP/IP Services releases.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:53:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>k  Subject: Re: SMTP Authentication, Message-ID: <3D8644CC.3228895F@videotron.ca>  L > :I forget the name, but when I asked about IMAP a couple of years ago, theM > :Compaq guy said they probably wouldn't add it to UCX because it might hurtg  > :sales of the premium product.  N The premium product, ALL-IN-1 was "killed" off in June 2001. It still survivesM on Alpha, but won't be ported to IA64. Since then the folks are Reading seems ? to have been busy donating bits and pieces of A1 to the VMS OS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:24:20 +0200n" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: snmp 5 Message-ID: <am5b5h$2gpm6$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>e  5 "Lex Beekman" <a.w.beekman@wxs.nl> schreef in berichtd$ news:am4kj9$agi$1@reader13.wxs.nl... > Does anyone know the error : >pK > "Invalid destination host name : rtds5a" and after that I got the messagee :t! > "permission denied". This errorDE > happens after trying to send a message with the snmp trapmechanism.  >.G Are you sure this is actually a VMS error? a VMS error message uses the  format  5 %<facility>-<severity>-<abbreviation>, <message text>e  I Please post the entire error message and be glad Carl Lydick is no longere with us.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Sep 2002 17:52:25 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)o Subject: Re: Sybase and VMSc3 Message-ID: <M6w87HckHPtd@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  \ In article <878z23a28o.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:D > "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> writes: > . >> I hear that sybase and VMS isn't supported. >  - >> anyone know if it works?a > = > Well, if you look back, you may remember Boeing looking for-E > VMS/Sybase people to go to Geralton. Security clearance required...m > 1 > So I think we can put a tick next to `works' :)M >   > I forgot to mention that when I sat next to a Sybase fellow on@ the flight from New Jersey to Oakland he mentioned that they had9 some "big customers" that insisted on VMS 7.3+ support.  a? I inferred from the tone of the conversation that it meant thatI? those that had support, and were big enough, still got support.O   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:51:05 GMTh5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>c" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!2 Message-ID: <J5nh9.28$c53.439462@news.cpqcorp.net>  K Yikes!  SUNW is at $2.90 at around 11:30 AM ET, which is about a dime or sofJ under book value for the company, and brings the market cap down to around $10b.h  : Is there news behind this drop towards penny stock status?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:16:13 +0200e@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!+ Message-ID: <3D8603CD.8090100@mail.tele.dk>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  M > Yikes!  SUNW is at $2.90 at around 11:30 AM ET, which is about a dime or sofL > under book value for the company, and brings the market cap down to around > $10b.s > < > Is there news behind this drop towards penny stock status?    ) They are starting to look like a bargain.m  0 I read in another forum that SUN has 6B in cash.  2 Which must mean that anyone with >4B in cash could make an offer.   IBM ? Dell ? Oracle ?c   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Sep 2002 14:03:45 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!3 Message-ID: <nxT3JelwZU45@eisner.encompasserve.org>x  j In article <J5nh9.28$c53.439462@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:M > Yikes!  SUNW is at $2.90 at around 11:30 AM ET, which is about a dime or sonL > under book value for the company, and brings the market cap down to around > $10b.t > < > Is there news behind this drop towards penny stock status? >  >   ; 	News?  Absolutely.  A Solaman "caution" (not a downgrade -i* 	underperform - speculative status stays):  A http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/020912/tech_sunmicrosystems_stocks_1.htmle  N "Sun is attempting to reinvent itself once again, and while we do not discountH its ability to do so, we believe that Sun's recent software and servicesL strategic actions will not be enough to offset declining hardware profits inH the near term," said the analyst, Richard Gardner, in a research report.   [snip]  L The analyst did not change his "underperform - speculative" rating or his $2I price target on the stock. He said the $2 target was reasonable given thenN difficulty of generating profits, and given a tangible book value he pegged at $2.29.   ---s  > 	So while Sun is doing well as far as box count, their margins? 	are declining and that curve is a nasty curve for the industryr? 	as a whole and Sun most of all.  Dell is essentially dictatingC> 	how much boxes will cost and that curve is still pretty steep6 	for Sun and others.  Exceptions to every rule, right?  A 	By the way, penny stock isn't quite fair.  I don't think it willN 	cross below a dollar.   				Robm    B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonderrG Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstreamx> The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  .                                 -- Neil Young    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:19:35 GMTh( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on+ Message-ID: <3D861392.2D725FB8@pacbell.net>e   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > + > Don Sykes (annonymous@pacbell.net) wrote:hF > > If a user program needs to ask for parameters of any type, then it% > > doesn't belong in a pipe command.t > C > All DCL commands ask for (required) parameters if you ommit them. ; I should have said "doesn't belong in a VALID pipe command"-C Of course if you're omitting required params, you deserve an error.D   > % > > For DCL commands, we already knowuL > > which ones can/can't, or shouldn't, be used in the pipe command, so pipeK > > could know that too. Pipe just needs to know to throw an error when anyo! > > of the component parts fails.W > 7 > Agreed - for system commands. What about third-party? K Again, I'm suggesting this shorthand only for those parts of a pipe commanddG string where such a substitution would work. If a 3rd party doesn't useu, sys$output, then of course it wouldn't work.   > I > > The only reason pipe exists (in either Unix or VMS) is as a shorthandtB > > method of obtaining a final result through the redirection andG > > synchronization of commands, and user programs, that use platforms'  > > standard i/o.e > D > I think you unterestimate pipe's importance in *ix. It's more of aI > philosophy there. All *ix (system) programs have limited functionality,fC > because if you want more, you can pipe. 'cat' just TYPEs a file'seJ > contents. If you want it paged, you can pipe it to 'more'. No need for a > /PAGE qualifier. > N That's a good point. *ix's do build their shell philosophies around that idea.  H > In the same line of thought, all (system) programs have options to getF > their input from stdin and/or put their output to stdout, to support	 > piping.a > E > DCL is built on a different philosophy. So PIPE is something like at > stranger in a strange land.w > K I agree. It's not an exact fit. But as the "help pipe" description say's, "/  PIPEoC      Executes one or more DCL command strings from the same command2E      line. The PIPE command enables you to perform UNIX style command F      processing, such as command pipelining, input/output redirection,.      and conditional and background execution.  6 The key phrase here is "UNIX style command processing"  I > > I'm saying that the more shorthand it is, the better it fulfills thatXH > > mission. And if I have to type "sys$output" & "sys$input" instead of8 > > "|", then it doesn't fulfill that mission very well. > I > In contrast to *ix (where the programs deal with special input/output),yD > VMS' PIPE would have to handle those cases. Any character reservedG > to PIPE to be replaced by SYS$INPUT/SYS$OUTPUT can't be passed to thes > program any more.  > > > And if "|" were to be that special character, how would PIPE8 > differentiate it from the "|" separating two commands? > 1 > If it were "-", you'd have to quote it, e.g. in  > 2 > $ PIPE GUNZIP -c archive.tar-gz | VMSTAR xvf "-" > M > (actually, this works - because VMSTAR knows how to handle a file name "-")i > % Ok on "|", but what about "<" & ">". Y -- C   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)k
 San Franciscoa   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:13:07 -0000o- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)vJ Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on5 Message-ID: <928B80051warrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>   E craigberry@nospam.telocity.com (Craig A. Berry) wrote in <craigberry-t0 783E3D.17222113092002@news.directvinternet.com>:  6 >In article <9288A5CFBwarrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>,0 > wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) wrote: >wH >> My apologies Craig - I was under the impression that expat was not a 5 >> *validating* parser.  I stand (and sit) corrected!s >lI >Oops, you're right.  It's non-validating.  I got it confused with James -I >Clark's earlier SGML parser SP, which I'm almost sure *is* validating.  eH >There actually aren't that many XML parsers in C and there aren't that ; >many that are validating, and that's true on any platform.0  C Hence, my request for one here (although I don't think I specified lI "validating" in my original post, so your response was quite valid).  My eI year-to-year choices are integrate, or port.  If I have good XML support nK for my legacy applications on OpenVMS, I can integrate (communicate app-to- H app).  Otherwise, I've got little choice but to port 'em off to another % platform where XML support is better.   H It seems there's little argument the world is going XML (anyone care to J take up the other side of that argument?).  So why isn't OpenVMS' support < of XML first-rate?  Am I the only one facing this challenge?   ws   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Sep 2002 12:35:27 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)aJ Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on3 Message-ID: <VwptAsr76QNt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3D860D41.32755665@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:   >> 3 >> $ def si sys$inputN. >> $ pipe dir/col=1/size | search si login.com >> LOGIN.COM;33               3  >> TESTLOGIN.COM;1            2  >> u >> --- CarlV > N > Good idea. Now if we can just alter define to allow a "<" or ">" we'd be all
 > set! eg: > 	$ def < sys$input > 	$ def > sys$output  >   ? 	Fine.  But in all this, you aren't supporting the pipe command : 	in a native Unix kind of fashion.  After all, you have to 	do a "pipe" command.   G 	So since you have to do a  pipe command you could always "pre-process"1! 	< and > into something suitable.S  E 	All this is a funny exercise anyhow.  When COE gets back ported into B 	base VMS , surely we can run (saw it somewhere can't find it now)& 	command sequences along the lines of:    ) 	$ show default  ! We are at a DCL promptN 	$ bash  	BASH> ls -ls > file.lis) 	BASH> cat file.lis | grep string > a.out 
 	BASH> DCL 	$ print a.out 	$ delete a.out;,file.lis;  ' 	or something more realistic than that.-     				Rob     B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonder G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstreamC> The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  -                                 -- Neil YoungQ   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Sep 2002 22:38 CDTt' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)2J Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on- Message-ID: <16SEP200222380051@gerg.tamu.edu>r  , Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes... }Carl Perkins wrote:@ }> My suggestion to those who are too lazy to type out the whole }> SYS$INPUT and SYS$OUTPUT: }> Y }> $ def si sys$inputV }> $ def so sys$output }> e }> Then you can do }> S  }> $ pipe dir | search si ".log" }>  E }> It will save you 7 whole characters of typing in this case, 8 in ae2 }> SYS$OUTPUT case, or 15 when you would use both. }> iI }> It even works. (At least for my simple test - there may be cases wherew }> it doesn't work so well.) }>   }> $ def si sys$inputp. }> $ pipe dir/col=1/size | search si login.com }> LOGIN.COM;33               3e }> TESTLOGIN.COM;1            2s }> w }> --- CarlN } M }Good idea. Now if we can just alter define to allow a "<" or ">" we'd be alla	 }set! eg:n }	$ def < sys$inputm }	$ def > sys$output   Well, you can actually dos   $ def "<" sys$input  $ def ">" sys$output  F but it isn't incredibly useful - DCL doesn't even attempt to translateE them as logical names when you try to use them. Possibly becuase they-H are valid delimiters for the directory part of a filespec, and in a PIPE# they are also redirection thingies.c   $ def "<" sys$input  $ def ">" sys$output $ sh log "<"(    "<" = "SYS$INPUT" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)5 1  "SYS$INPUT" = "_GERGX$FTA380:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)b $ sh log ">")    ">" = "SYS$OUTPUT" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)g6 1  "SYS$OUTPUT" = "_GERGX$FTA380:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)& $ pipe dir/size | search < "login.com"N %DCL-W-INCREDSYN, incomplete redirection syntax; supply missing file parameter $ search < "login.com"M %DCL-W-DIRECT, invalid directory syntax - check brackets and other delimiters-  \<\   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Sep 2002 22:43 CDT@' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)jJ Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on- Message-ID: <16SEP200222432653@gerg.tamu.edu>i  , Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes...& }Ok on "|", but what about "<" & ">".    They are already used by DCL:n   $ dir $disk1:<carl>login.com   Directory $DISK1:<CARL>4   LOGIN.COM;33   Total of 1 file.    > How do you plan to make it know the difference between "<" theC input redirector and "<" the directory delimiter? If it sees "<foo"h> how shbould it know if you want to read the file "foo." in the@ current default directory (or the file pointed at by the logical? name "foo") or if you have forgotten the ">" on the end of your, directory specification?   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:23:50 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>lU Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on   OpenVMS?u5 Message-ID: <am57jn$2p1a5$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>N  5 "Don Sykes" <annonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message6% news:3D860D41.32755665@pacbell.net...r >...J > Good idea. Now if we can just alter define to allow a "<" or ">" we'd be all0
 > set! eg: > $ def < sys$input  > $ def > sys$output >...  K Actually, if you take a look at the HELP PIPE PARAMETER you will see that < 3 and > are defined already. The DCL Dictionary says;p  " ----- begin DCL Dictionary ------- Input/output redirection  = A command sequence can redirect its SYS$INPUT, SYS$OUTPUT, orn? SYS$ERROR to a file during execution of the command as follows:a To redirect SYS$INPUT:0    PIPE command-sequence < redirected-input-file To redirect SYS$OUTPUT:r1    PIPE command-sequence > redirected-output-file  To redirect SYS$ERROR:1    PIPE command-sequence 2> redirected-error-filei; A pipeline-segment command can also redirect its SYS$INPUT,h< SYS$OUTPUT, or SYS$ERROR; however, SYS$OUTPUT redirection isA allowed only for the last pipeline-segment command, and SYS$INPUTsC redirection is allowed only for the first pipeline-segment command.   ----- end DCL Dictionary -------  L But the < really doesn't do what you want. Here's a .COM that will do what IL think you want but uses "#" to represent SYS$PIPE(limited testing, try it if	 you want)o   $! $ cmdline = p1 $loop: $ length = f$length(cmdline)" $ position = f$locate("#",cmdline)) $ if position .eqs. length then goto doneo- $ cmdline = f$extract(0,position,cmdline) + -C8     " sys$pipe: " + f$extract(position+1,length,cmdline) $ goto loopa $! $done:( $ assign sys$command sys$input/user_mode
 $ 'cmdline  5 For an example try @newpipe "pipe dir | sear # login"s     -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.p   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 00:08:09 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb),S Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS?l+ Message-ID: <am5rp9$4jv$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>p  V In article <3D860D41.32755665@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >Carl Perkins wrote: >> e- >> Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:tH >> } A small, but annoying thing to me is the requirement of "sys$input"I >> } & "sys$output" in the pipe command. One of the few nice things about G >> } the Unix shells is brevity. "<" means input from; ">" means output.G >> } to; and "|" means both. If VMS is going to support a pipe command,mG >> } then I would like to use it in a Unix fashion, instead of spellingw" >> } out the input & output - e.g. >> } >> } Currently, I have to say:/ >> }       $ pipe dir | search sys$input ".log"   >> } I'd like to be able to say:% >> }       $ pipe dir | search ".log"uH >> } and have the pipe command fill in "sys$input", or at least, specify >> } sys$input as < , e.g.:w' >> }       $ pipe dir | search < ".log"f >> v@ >> My suggestion to those who are too lazy to type out the whole >> SYS$INPUT and SYS$OUTPUT: >> a >> $ def si sys$inpute >> $ def so sys$output >> e >> Then you can do >> -  >> $ pipe dir | search si ".log" >> rE >> It will save you 7 whole characters of typing in this case, 8 in a,2 >> SYS$OUTPUT case, or 15 when you would use both. >>  I >> It even works. (At least for my simple test - there may be cases wheree >> it doesn't work so well.) >> r >> $ def si sys$input . >> $ pipe dir/col=1/size | search si login.com >> LOGIN.COM;33               3o >> TESTLOGIN.COM;1            2a >> a >> --- Carli >hM >Good idea. Now if we can just alter define to allow a "<" or ">" we'd be allt	 >set! eg:  >	$ def < sys$inputd >	$ def > sys$output     Except thatV  -    $pipe dir/col=1/size | search < login.com k    H could also be interpreted as pass the file login.com as the input to theJ search command rather than as search sys$input for the string "login.com".   Overloading < to be both   sys$input itself   ands  , redirect the following file to be sys$input   $ would seem to be a recipe for chaos.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >--  >t >Have VMS. Will Travel.v >Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) >San Francisco   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 00:43:01 GMTk( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>Y Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenV-+ Message-ID: <3D867B85.AADBF05A@pacbell.net>    Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Don Sykes wrote: >  > > Arne Vajhj wrote:6 > >>But I can see use of PIPE in connection some of my7 > >>own programs - and I am afraid VMS Engineering doesy > >>not have a list of those.w > N > > No, but if your program takes data from sys$input & outputs to sys$output,D > > what's so difficult about making pipe do the substitutions? Like > > G > >       pipe dir/col=1/nohead/notrail | YourProgram | search "string"- >  > ???? > 6 > But that was not the point. Programs that read/write0 > from/to SYS$INPUT/SYS$OUTPUT work fine already2 > with both VMS programs and custom programs. Like > in DIR above.o > 8 > What you proposed was to insert a SYS$INPUT/SYS$OUTPUT5 > for programs that do not read/write from/to theese.u > Like in SEARCH above.e > N NO. That was not what I proposed. I only proposed using i/o symbols like ">" &8 "<" instead of have to spell out sys$input & sys$output.   -- a   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)I
 San Franciscod   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:52:38 GMTe( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>Y Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenV + Message-ID: <3D860D41.32755665@pacbell.net>,   Carl Perkins wrote:s > , > Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:G > } A small, but annoying thing to me is the requirement of "sys$input" H > } & "sys$output" in the pipe command. One of the few nice things aboutF > } the Unix shells is brevity. "<" means input from; ">" means outputF > } to; and "|" means both. If VMS is going to support a pipe command,F > } then I would like to use it in a Unix fashion, instead of spelling! > } out the input & output - e.g.2 > }s > } Currently, I have to say:w. > }       $ pipe dir | search sys$input ".log" > } I'd like to be able to say:s$ > }       $ pipe dir | search ".log"G > } and have the pipe command fill in "sys$input", or at least, specifyd > } sys$input as < , e.g.:& > }       $ pipe dir | search < ".log" > ? > My suggestion to those who are too lazy to type out the whole- > SYS$INPUT and SYS$OUTPUT:  >  > $ def si sys$input > $ def so sys$outputd >  > Then you can dof >  > $ pipe dir | search si ".log"r > D > It will save you 7 whole characters of typing in this case, 8 in a1 > SYS$OUTPUT case, or 15 when you would use both.d > H > It even works. (At least for my simple test - there may be cases where > it doesn't work so well.)i >  > $ def si sys$input- > $ pipe dir/col=1/size | search si login.com  > LOGIN.COM;33               3 > TESTLOGIN.COM;1            2 > 
 > --- Carl  L Good idea. Now if we can just alter define to allow a "<" or ">" we'd be all set! eg: 	$ def < sys$input 	$ def > sys$output    -- i   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)r
 San Franciscoc   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:02:42 GMTU( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>Y Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenVs+ Message-ID: <3D860F9D.4FE36EBB@pacbell.net>    sasadmin wrote:u <snip>: > > Whatever knowledge would be required to make this work5 > > belongs in pipe, not in the potential components.i > C > Components must cooperate with the shell to attain a reliable I/Oh? > redirection model. IIRC, this is one theme of the K&R C book.l <snip>  ? > > The only reason pipe exists (in either Unix or VMS) is as aiH > > shorthand method of obtaining a final result through the redirection@ > > and synchronization of commands, and user programs, that use > > platforms' standard i/o. iG > Agreed w/r/t/ Unix. On VMS, that's more problematic, as some programs E > don't use stdio. They may assign a separate channel to a device and B > use that in lieu of stdio; which design is uncommon on Unix. TheB > potential for that behavior excludes the PIPE syntax you desire. >  <snip>  O You're over complicating this. All pipe has to do is do some substitution whereaE appropriate. If it's not clear to pipe when to substitute sys$inut or-( sys$output, that's ok. Just let it fail.   -- -   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)r
 San Franciscod   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.513 ************************