1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 18 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 515       Contents: Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article ACID DS9400 DLT drive and VMS ? 	 Re: AD/BC 
 ALL-IN-ONE Re: ALL-IN-ONE* Re: Alpha + PA-RISC = Itanium Frankenstein* Re: Alpha + PA-RISC = Itanium Frankenstein1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium  Re: Anyone running CVS?  Re: Anyone running CVS?  Re: Anyone running CVS?  Re: Anyone running CVS?  Re: Anyone running CVS?  Re: Anyone running CVS?  Re: Anyone running CVS?  Re: BASIC (bug?) Re: BASIC (bug?) Re: BASIC (bug?) Re: BASIC (bug?) Re: Bush and Blair Re: Convert Blocks to MB Re: Convert Blocks to MB  Re: DDS2 tape, Windows to VMS??? DDS2 tape, Windows to VMS???9 Re: Defining a Logical/Symbol/etc for a Hard coded value? 9 Re: Defining a Logical/Symbol/etc for a Hard coded value? 2 Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be)3 Re: hoew to address dqa0:(ide-cdrom) under cdrecord " Re: how external input is received" Re: how external input is received* Re: How work out time from a duration time& How work out time from a duration time* Re: How work out time from a duration time Re: HP website integration> Re: HTML to browse the Freeware CDs - grab a copy if you wish.0 I want to be a Candidate for the Encompass Board4 Re: I want to be a Candidate for the Encompass Board RE: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT= Re: Is anyone using kernel threads with the pthread library ? 9 Local User Group meeting Announcment - Washington DC area  Re: MAIL suggestion  Re: MAIL suggestion  Re: MAIL suggestion  Re: MANUaL DCL= Re: Micro$oft exec says all os's stink ... forgets about VMS!  Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.$ Re: Non-standard installation of VMS. Re: Opcom when SYSGEN modifies the params file. Re: Opcom when SYSGEN modifies the params file or just a programmer?  Re: or just a programmer?  RE: ORD  Re: ORD  RE: ORD 4 Re: Seeking Senior VMS System Administrator Position Re: SMTP Authentication  Re: SMTP Authentication  So help me understand her. Re: So help me understand herE.  Re: SRM Console Variables  Re: Sybase and VMS Re: Sybase and VMS Re: Sybase and VMS Re: Sybase and VMS Re: Sybase and VMS Re: Symposium Sessions Re: Symposium Sessions Re: Symposium Sessions2 Re: System service call to know the number of CPUs2 Re: System service call to know the number of CPUs2 Re: System service call to know the number of CPUs Re: sysuaf and friends Re: sysuaf and friends Re: sysuaf and friends tcpip client PAK Re: tcpip client PAK& TCPIP: BIND server forwarders question. Re: The cd record package from HP/CPQ + DVD??? Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!  Re: The Gauntlet is Cast! , wanted: cobol vax/vms ingres programming job) what drive does an RV02K WORK disk go in? L Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on   OpenVMS?P Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenV& Re: www.openvms.com is available ! ! !  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:59:42 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: "inview" Article / Message-ID: <am75ij$vc$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>    Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >=20 >> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:  >> >>>    | >>> (HTTPS)  >>>    | >>> [web server] >>>    |	 >>> (AJP)  >>>    | >>> [JSP/servlet container]  >>> [EJB container]  >>>    | >>> (properitary)  >>>    | >>> [EIS system] >>>   >>> Is the way it is done today. >>>  >>> And that is not just SUN.  >> >=20 >=20( >> Appart from missing out the firewalls* >> and optional firewalls its a reasonable >> stab. >=20 >=20 >=206 > They were omitted on purpose because I consider them& > network infra-structure not servers. >=20 >=209 >>> BTW, it is not in the web server layer the money are.  >> >>5 >> Quite, thats more in the apps and state layers but 2 >> must customers prefer lack of complexity to the8 >> alternative and so they are often happier with common >> vendors for all the layers. >>5 >> I have seen HP eliminated from a 3 way competition 6 >> between Sun, HP and IBM because they didn't support6 >> all three layers web/apps/dbms on HP-UX and instead- >> were bidding NT for precisely that reason.  >=20 >=20' > That may be the case for some buyers.  >=205 > But it is my impression that the majority of buyers 7 > today want the cheapest solutions (Windows and Linux) 6 > especially for the web server layer but also to some; > extent for the app server layer and reserve the expensive 9 > highend boxes (Solaris/VMS/Tru64/HP-UX/AIX/MVS) for the " > databases and other EIS systems. >=20  , Sure everyone wants to save money. The trick* however is translating the wanting to save) money sentiment into a saving that can be 	 measured.   + Case in point would be your suggestion that , Linux/Windows makes a cost effective web and apps server platform.   * There is only one general J2EE apps server* benchmark that attempts to model this kind- of app on a price/performance basis and thats  eCperf.   2 And this may be counter intuitive, eCperf actually0 shows that a typical Linux/Windows2000 with UNIX2 DBMS infrastructure is more costly per transaction5 than say a Sun Apps and Sun DBMS server configuration . with the Sun solution delivering nearly double3 the throughput per CPU and using many fewer servers  to deliver the same throughput.   0 IBM the company that thinks that Linux is an end/ to end OS were kind enough to benchmark a Linux ) or Windows plus UNIX backend combination.   + The eCperf costs include HW/SW and service.   0 At the Web server level it depends what you want0 if you don't want to do your own pre-integration/ and you do value having commercial type support , arrangements and you want Linux then you buy/ Red-Hat Advanced Server or something equivalent . this costs. Alternatively you buy a Netra from0 Sun which will be cheaper than your x86 + bought2 Linux bundle or a Sun LX50 running Sun-Linux which, gets you a pre-integrated supported Linux on$ x86 including Apache/Tomcat etc etc.  + If you are happy to Futz with Linux and you , don't care about support then Linux may well+ end up being cheaper for web servers than a  comparable UNIX server.   ' This doesn't actually apply to most big 2 corporations where someone will eventually account1 for your time Futzing and bang the costs into the * Linux TCO and people like to be supported.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:22:36 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> Subject: Re: "inview" Article + Message-ID: <3D878F0C.5070600@mail.tele.dk>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  - > Case in point would be your suggestion that . > Linux/Windows makes a cost effective web and > apps server platform.  > , > There is only one general J2EE apps server, > benchmark that attempts to model this kind/ > of app on a price/performance basis and thats 	 > eCperf.  > 4 > And this may be counter intuitive, eCperf actually2 > shows that a typical Linux/Windows2000 with UNIX4 > DBMS infrastructure is more costly per transaction7 > than say a Sun Apps and Sun DBMS server configuration 0 > with the Sun solution delivering nearly double5 > the throughput per CPU and using many fewer servers      ????  ! This is very very amateurish FUD.    Everyone can go to:    W http://ecperf.theserverside.com/ecperf/index.jsp?page=results/top_ten_price_performance   
 and see that: "    - IBM Linux is cheaper than SUN=    - other Linux and Windows configs are way cheaper than SUN   - > If you are happy to Futz with Linux and you . > don't care about support then Linux may well- > end up being cheaper for web servers than a  > comparable UNIX server.  > ) > This doesn't actually apply to most big 4 > corporations where someone will eventually account3 > for your time Futzing and bang the costs into the , > Linux TCO and people like to be supported.  3 Why would it take more time to Futz with Linux than  with Solaris ????    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:26:22 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: "inview" Article , Message-ID: <3D8773CA.FD355D24@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:) > This doesn't actually apply to most big 4 > corporations where someone will eventually account3 > for your time Futzing and bang the costs into the , > Linux TCO and people like to be supported.  L Most big corporations have a large enough inventory of wintel junk that theyN would still find Linux less costly since it would involve less Futzing (as youH say) than wintel junk. By that metric, it would be cheaper than windows.  M Remember that some large corporations do run their web on wintel crap (NASDAQ  comes to mind).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:06:04 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ( Subject: ACID DS9400 DLT drive and VMS ?' Message-ID: <3D8744DC.7BC07180@aaa.com>    Hi. + Anyone using a "DS9400" DLT drive from ADIC  on there VMS systems ?  ) I would like to use this drive on a DS20e   with a dedicated SCIS interface.  7 The alternative is to buy a (used) TZ89 from a brooker.    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 20:34:24 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: AD/BC= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0209171934.7aa58fef@posting.google.com>   h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<dNGTPL15+iXn@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0209121743.7d84683c@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > >  > > So what is star date zero? > >  > H >    Julian day 0.  (Noon 1 January 4713 BC/BCE on the Julian Calendar).    E But the current Julian Date is in the millions! And no star date ever 3 reached that high. We need a little more info here.    Disclaimer: JMO  Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Sep 2002 08:39:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: ALL-IN-ONE 0 Message-ID: <8765x46shf.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   E > > :I forget the name, but when I asked about IMAP a couple of years B > > :ago, the Compaq guy said they probably wouldn't add it to UCX8 > > :because it might hurt sales of the premium product.   A > The premium product, ALL-IN-1 was "killed" off in June 2001. It F > still survives on Alpha, but won't be ported to IA64. Since then theD > folks are Reading seems to have been busy donating bits and pieces > of A1 to the VMS OS.  G Since AI1 is set for the chop, can the sources etc go to DECUS/freeware  as has happened in the past?   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:28:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: ALL-IN-ONE , Message-ID: <3D87E4B8.852DEA38@videotron.ca>   Paul Repacholi wrote:    I > Since AI1 is set for the chop, can the sources etc go to DECUS/freeware  > as has happened in the past?  I Since it is still commercially supported on Alpha and VAX and expected to K continue to be supported for some years to come, i doubt they would want to  make it public domain.  L I had asked about getting some of the stuff released but it seems they still/ consider it very proprietary. ALL-IN-1 is huge.   I Note that much of ALL-IN-1 is already available. (all the forms, scripts, J boilerplates, and some of the source code needed to add commands to A1 forF instance.  ALL-IN-1 is distributed in such a way that the installation" procedure links A1 on your system.  M But the really cool stuff such as piping, access to indexed files etc is very  hidden in the executables.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:44:51 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> 3 Subject: Re: Alpha + PA-RISC = Itanium Frankenstein . Message-ID: <TCLh9.450488$me6.53544@sccrnsc01>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:yYlh9.35641$U_.24098@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message* > news:Pj7g9.403773$me6.45862@sccrnsc01... > >  > > / > > > What will be the name of this beast ? :-)  > > > GlobalDome ? > > K > > Nope. Something with a nautical motif. And no, not "Three Sheets to the 
 > > Wind." >  > $ > Most likely the "Flying Dutchman". > 8 > Forever doomed to sail the oceans unmanned and unused. >   D There's always "Lusitania, Andea Doria, and Edmund Fitzgerald," too.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 02:03:02 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 3 Subject: Re: Alpha + PA-RISC = Itanium Frankenstein G Message-ID: <q9Rh9.77719$561.9563@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message( news:TCLh9.450488$me6.53544@sccrnsc01... > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC > news:yYlh9.35641$U_.24098@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > > @ > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message, > > news:Pj7g9.403773$me6.45862@sccrnsc01... > > >  > > > 1 > > > > What will be the name of this beast ? :-)  > > > > GlobalDome ? > > > I > > > Nope. Something with a nautical motif. And no, not "Three Sheets to  the  > > > Wind." > >  > > & > > Most likely the "Flying Dutchman". > > : > > Forever doomed to sail the oceans unmanned and unused. > >  > F > There's always "Lusitania, Andea Doria, and Edmund Fitzgerald," too.    I And how about those ships that sank on their maiden voyage...RMS Titanic, 3 HMS Mary Rose, the Swedish ship Vasa, among others.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:08:43 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>: Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium, Message-ID: <3D87295B.9000800@tsoft-inc.com>   Paddy O'Brien wrote:   >  >  > John N. wrote: > : >> "Ken Randell" <ken.randell@fortel.com> wrote in message0 >> news:zOvh9.251$GO2.41@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... >> >> >>> Budgets are like that. >>>  >> >>     Yeah, they are! >> > * > [You've brought on seething frustration] > J > Some are.  Depends which section/dept you are in.  Our IT seems to have J > an unlimited budget to keep BG happy and employ contractors willy-nilly ! >  in their vendetta against VMS.  > I > Our engineering section which effectively is part of the raison d'etre  F > of our org (part because my engineering colleagues are planners and K > investigators into control system analysis, and I write/maintain progams  J > to assist them -- and the other large engineering section gets to build K > the things) has a very limited budget.  The PHMs in HR, Finance, IT need  I > to ensure that their staff can email PowerPoint and Gifs to each other.     N Not sure just what your organization does, or whether it is profit motivated, L but your post is interesting.  HR, Finance, and IT are basically 'necessary O evils' and overhead in most companies.  That they seem to have no problem with  Q funding, while the department(s) that do the revenue producing work have limited  O budgets, sure makes it look like the horse and cart have gotten mixed up about  
 their places.   P Then again, a programmer working for the engineers could be considered overhead 
 also.  :-)    J > When I wanted to upgrade the memory of my development (old -- but still B > working well) DECstation 300 from 96 to 128, I went through the ( > equivalent of the Spanish Inquisition. > J > When BG says jump through the hoop, get my latest and greatest OS (but, K > you'll need new PCs to run it -- and BIG bucks) our IT jumps through the  J > hoop.  Everyone (but luckily not moi) gets a new PC and cannot work for 2 > 3/4 days until the contractors get things going.    E So, you still need that dog-eared old deck of cards to play solitare?     J > Looks as if I'll have to be put out to stud earlier than anticipated :-)    D Unless being profitable is not a concern, it may not be your choice.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:17:24 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium, Message-ID: <3D8771B0.A3EC2BD5@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:I > >       Yes.  But what if changing the location costs you twice as much % > >       money to sponsor the event?  > G > Or what if it decreased the quality of the event by reducing engineer H > participation ?  Employees are not pieces of hardware to be redeployed? > on corporate whim.  If you try that, at some point they quit.   J Note that I didn't make the suggestion to hold it DURING the weekend. JustG make it "weekend airline rates friendly". For instance, you can hold it M starting on a monday morning. This way, folks could fly out saturday evening, K spend a day on sunday to rest (perhaps have some social functions on sunday J evening to start the event). $92 for an extra night at the castle would beE well worth it considering you'd be saving much more in airline fares.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:13:50 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium1 Message-ID: <ipJh9.34$AM3.96351@news.cpqcorp.net>   = JF Mezei wrote in message <3D861CE8.9BCA8E66@videotron.ca>...  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: L >> If you want to do anything aside from hanging around at the hotel, you'llG >> need a car.  Nashua is only modestly mass-transit friendly, and most  places' >> are a bit more than waling distance.  > K >But surely Sue or any VMS engineer would offer to drive participants where  >they want to go ? >  >:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  % I drive a Z3.  So only one at a time.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:33:34 -0700 ( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>: Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium- Message-ID: <3D87ADBE.E218F491@NelsonUSA.com>    Sue Skonetski wrote:  J > So come early or stay longer!    Visit the lab, pay a visit to the mill.  3 Is the mill open for tours (official or otherwise)?   . Would Monday or Friday be best for lab visits?: I would love to see the engineers in their native habitat.- Are you going to be playing tour guide?   :-) ; (An image of the Disneyland Jungle Tour boats keeps running  through my mind.   :-)   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:38:06 -0400 5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium* Message-ID: <am83rj$i0r$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  H So come early or stay longer!    Visit the lab, pay a visit to the mill.      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D8771B0.A3EC2BD5@videotron.ca... > Larry Kilgallen wrote:K > > >       Yes.  But what if changing the location costs you twice as much ' > > >       money to sponsor the event?  > > I > > Or what if it decreased the quality of the event by reducing engineer J > > participation ?  Employees are not pieces of hardware to be redeployedA > > on corporate whim.  If you try that, at some point they quit.  > L > Note that I didn't make the suggestion to hold it DURING the weekend. JustI > make it "weekend airline rates friendly". For instance, you can hold it F > starting on a monday morning. This way, folks could fly out saturday evening,F > spend a day on sunday to rest (perhaps have some social functions on sundayL > evening to start the event). $92 for an extra night at the castle would beG > well worth it considering you'd be saving much more in airline fares.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:31:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium, Message-ID: <3D87C968.E3A6FC84@videotron.ca>   Alan Frisbie wrote: L > > So come early or stay longer!    Visit the lab, pay a visit to the mill. > < > I would love to see the engineers in their native habitat.= > (An image of the Disneyland Jungle Tour boats keeps running  > through my mind.   :-)  J No, an image of the crocodile hunter capturing one of the VMS engineers inM front of the audience and using his oh, so colourful language to describe the   behaviour of this rare beast....   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:39:00 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS SymposiumB Message-ID: <EWPh9.111215$5r1.4263173@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:am83rj$i0r$1@web1.cup.hp.com...J > So come early or stay longer!    Visit the lab, pay a visit to the mill.  F The latter would be entirely too depressing, at least for a lot of us.H DEC's existence as only a historical curiosity is a continuing source ofG disgust, given how many of the perpetrators of this situation are still  around.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:42:34 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>   Subject: Re: Anyone running CVS?2 Message-ID: <3D873F5A.2030005@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>   Jack Fortune wrote: N > I'm trying to termine the feasability of running CVS in my 7.2-1 VMSCluster. > H > Has anyone successfully downloaded and built the kit from the website? > - > 	http://www.cvshome.org/cyclic/cvs/vms.html  > [ > What other unix utilities would have to be running in order to extract and build the kit?  > , > Any info or opinions would be appreciated. >  > F I have CVS1.11b (client) running on my OpenVMS box. as I remember You > only needed the Porting-library to have it run correctly. All F ssh-related stuff does not work. Rober Alan Byer created a patch which can be downloaded from  ; http://www.ourservers.net/public/vms/programming/index.html                      Jouk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:07:14 +0200 & From: Bernard Giroud <bgiroud@free.fr>  Subject: Re: Anyone running CVS?' Message-ID: <3D874522.F01B1C0D@free.fr>    Colin Blake a crit :   C > It builds and runs just fine. There's a couple of fixes I made to 6 > address problems I found. Look in the VMS section onM > http://www.cvshome.org/cyclic/cvs/dev-port.html and you'll find my patches.  >  > Colin. >   C Do you mean it runs as a server, or at least as a local repository?    Bernard Giroud   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:27:22 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>  Subject: Re: Anyone running CVS?+ Message-ID: <3D87902A.3010008@mail.tele.dk>    system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  [ > In article <1103_1032272469@news.cis.dfn.de>, Jack Fortune <jcfortune3@fedex.com> writes: N >>I'm trying to termine the feasability of running CVS in my 7.2-1 VMSCluster.    , >>Any info or opinions would be appreciated.    8 > If it's for VMS development get yourself a VMS tool.    4 If you can get CMS converted to a client/server tool3 and get it ported to Win32, Linux and a handfull of 2 commercial Unix'es then it is an excellent advice.   Else it is just nostalgia.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 14:33:51 -0700- From: rdls22@jnatx.com (Stephen L. De Rudder)   Subject: Re: Anyone running CVS?< Message-ID: <81c810ad.0209171333.b24a953@posting.google.com>  ^ Jack Fortune <jcfortune3@fedex.com> wrote in message news:<1103_1032272469@news.cis.dfn.de>...N > I'm trying to termine the feasability of running CVS in my 7.2-1 VMSCluster. > H > Has anyone successfully downloaded and built the kit from the website? > - > 	http://www.cvshome.org/cyclic/cvs/vms.html  > [ > What other unix utilities would have to be running in order to extract and build the kit?  > , > Any info or opinions would be appreciated.  B I have downloaded and built CVS V1.11.2 for VMS V7.2.  I have alsoE tested it against the a remote unix server with CVS V1.11 pserver.  I E tested it with two modules.  The first module didn't have any non-vms E liked directories and everything seemed to work fine right out of the  box.  C The second module was an import of the OpenSSL V0.9.6? and ran into F problems with directory names.  I then went to an ODS-5 disk and triedC there.  I was able to get much more on the ODS-5 disk.  I still ran E into a VAXCRTL issue that will be fixed later (I think in VMS V7.3).  C It tries to create files in unix style current directory and if the F file is ods-5 filename it dies.  What it tried to create was somethingE like "./file with spaces or lots.of.dots".  Someone pointed out to me E that the unix directories specs don't work with ods-5 specs (yet).  I D found the cvs code that attached the "./" and removed it without any$ side affect (knock knock (on wood)).  > Please note that I testing was just very simple for a proof ofE concept.  I do not consider it complete or even close to complete.  I C tried several client commands and options (qualifiers) but not all.    Hope that helps...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:17:16 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG   Subject: Re: Anyone running CVS?0 Message-ID: <00A141C4.3E474170@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <am7ggs$3c5pt$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>, "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:  > + ><system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message + >news:00A141BE.7B37C6B5@SendSpamHere.ORG... = >> In article <1103_1032272469@news.cis.dfn.de>, Jack Fortune  ><jcfortune3@fedex.com> writes:  >> >D >> >I'm trying to termine the feasability of running CVS in my 7.2-1 >VMSCluster. >> >J >> >Has anyone successfully downloaded and built the kit from the website? >> >/ >> > http://www.cvshome.org/cyclic/cvs/vms.html  >> >J >> >What other unix utilities would have to be running in order to extract >and build the kit?  >> >. >> >Any info or opinions would be appreciated. >> > >> > >> >Jack Fortune >> >FedEx Trade Networks >> >Atlanta, Georgia >> > >> > >>7 >> If it's for VMS development get yourself a VMS tool.  >> -- 5 >> VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001  >VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  >>7 >>   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"  > K >Just suppose one thought having portable code was a good idea?  Like so it  >could run on VMS, Windows andM >Linux?  Then putting a CVS client on VMS and having the repository available  >from all platforms is a >very useful setup.  > L >At least I think so.  At my current employer, this has kept VMS as a livingI >environment and ensured it's continued usage a lot more effectively than 6 >building a fence around it by keeping "non-VMS" tools >away. >  >Jim >  >  >     I I worked on one project being managed by CVS.  I coined it Competely Vile I System.  I had to log into unix boxes and run a slew of unix commands and H scripts that I was given to find thinks like "tags".  A code maintenanceH system ought to be completely self contained.  I should not have to relyC upon knowing the ins and outs of unix to figure out how to use it.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:29:45 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>   Subject: Re: Anyone running CVS?, Message-ID: <3D876670.7070305@theblakes.com>   JOUKJ wrote:  H > I have CVS1.11b (client) running on my OpenVMS box. as I remember You < > only needed the Porting-library to have it run correctly.   7 You do NOT use the porting library to build CVS client.   F And that reminds me, as-is, CVS works only on ODS-2 volumes. I have a G version which works on ODS-5 volumes (only) and supports extended file  F names, but since I was unable to get my previous patches incorporated I into the CVS source I didn't even bother with the ODS-5 changes. I guess  / I can post it somewhere if anyone's interested.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:33:58 GMT 0 From: Donald McCabe <donald.p.mccabe@boeing.com>  Subject: Re: Anyone running CVS?) Message-ID: <3D879FC6.4090805@boeing.com>    Let's see...I Client/server, Win32 are done. VMS engineering just needs the "Linux and  F a handfull of commercial Unix'es" part to go.Somehow that still won't  sell big in today's world.  B http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/decset/clients_index.html   Arne Vajhj wrote:  > system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > >> In article <1103_1032272469@news.cis.dfn.de>, Jack Fortune ! >> <jcfortune3@fedex.com> writes:  >>E >>> I'm trying to termine the feasability of running CVS in my 7.2-1   >>> VMSCluster.  >> >  > . >>> Any info or opinions would be appreciated. >> >  > 9 >> If it's for VMS development get yourself a VMS tool.    >  > 6 > If you can get CMS converted to a client/server tool5 > and get it ported to Win32, Linux and a handfull of 4 > commercial Unix'es then it is an excellent advice. >  > Else it is just nostalgia. >  > Arne >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 11:18:34 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)  Subject: Re: BASIC (bug?) - Message-ID: <V1i4$v$mUC7y@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   > In article <d56d1c2d.0209170707.319cdc2f@posting.google.com>, (     cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) writes:    > In the case of something like: > $ > declare long    constant false = 1$ > declare integer constant false = 2 > A > the compiler "barfs" which I would expect (I would expect it to & > complain about the 1st bit of code). > B > As far as the 1st case (declaring false as an integer and a longF > equating to 0) I have a hard time believing in a "strongly typed" orF > constant overloading argument (someone here suggested it in a joking
 > manner).  C     By default integers in BASIC are 32 bits ( long ) so presumably E the compiler is just smart enough to ignore the redundant definition.   <    Try adding OPTION SIZE=(INTEGER WORD) to your program and watch what happens.   
 $ ty x.bas       option size=(integer word)!     declare long constant false=0 $     declare integer constant false=0     end    $ bas x   $     declare integer constant false=0 .............................^= %BASIC-E-ILLMULDEF, illegal multiple definition of name FALSE   
  Similarly  
 $ ty x.bas  !     declare word constant false=0 $     declare integer constant false=0     end    $ bas x   $     declare integer constant false=0 .............................^= %BASIC-E-ILLMULDEF, illegal multiple definition of name FALSE       Looks like feature to me :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:12:47 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: BASIC (bug?) , Message-ID: <3D877EA7.8C233F23@videotron.ca>  
 Joe wrote:B > As far as the 1st case (declaring false as an integer and a longF > equating to 0) I have a hard time believing in a "strongly typed" or  > constant overloading argument   L C has a feature whereby any float is converted to double before being passedN as argument to routines such as printf. This allows the "%5.2f" format to work6 no matter if the variable passed is a float or double.  L If all uses of "false" in your program are such that whether int or long, itF wouldn't make a difference, then perhaps the compiler wouldn't need toM complain and it would automatically convert "false" to whayever (int or long)	K is needed/expected in that statement. And since "0" is within the bounds ofA/ both int and long then  it makes no difference.v  J But if you had a constant value of 66000 (needs more tha 16 bits) for bothN "false =" statements, perhaps the compiler would then issue a warning that theL value is too big for the "int" OR that it would see different values for intN and long versions (since the int value would be 464 while the long value would
 be 66000).   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 20:58:02 -0700" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) Subject: Re: BASIC (bug?)o= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0209171958.6b7ed4ec@posting.google.com>C  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D877EA7.8C233F23@videotron.ca>...g > Joe wrote:D > > As far as the 1st case (declaring false as an integer and a longH > > equating to 0) I have a hard time believing in a "strongly typed" or" > > constant overloading argument  > N > C has a feature whereby any float is converted to double before being passedP > as argument to routines such as printf. This allows the "%5.2f" format to work8 > no matter if the variable passed is a float or double.  B I should probably think about the following statement for at leastC another few seconds lest it turns into a case of "open mouth inserteD foot" in a public forum but then Lord knows I've already done that aE few times here in COV in the last 8 - 9 years... essentially what theP above boils down to is a cast.  B As was posted by some one else (and now that I'm stopping to thinkE about it this is bringing back memories of college courses with namesEC like "Theory of Computation" - these are memories that send a chillAE down my spine) the 2nd declaration isn't new so there's no error. TheMC default integer size is long. If the example is compiled BASIC/WORDtA then the compiler "barfs." Alternately "long" could be changed to E "word" and compiling BASIC/WORD will generate no complaints. When theoE compiler parses the 2nd declaration of "false" it enters a state thataF it's already seen but just doesn't cause any "conflict" (I'm playing a) bit fast and loose with the description).   = The original example is pretty much the "equivalent" of doinga" something like the following in C:   void main(void) {   	    int i;       fscanf("%i\n", i);-$    i; // no side effect - do nothing   }n  D In any event... it's not a bug. Just a situation that even on closerE inspection I would have expected the BASIC compiler to have made some  "statement" on.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:37:52 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Re: BASIC (bug?)u, Message-ID: <3D88030F.A8E42704@videotron.ca>  
 Joe wrote:G > "word" and compiling BASIC/WORD will generate no complaints. When theaG > compiler parses the 2nd declaration of "false" it enters a state that 9 > it's already seen but just doesn't cause any "conflict"s  J Nevertheless, it should still warn about multiple declarations of the same$ variable even if they are identical.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 12:20:10 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)v Subject: Re: Bush and Blairh3 Message-ID: <N6pMereTkndZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  ` In article <578eouk2iu8jahdc8hu0m965gqcmadeqv9@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:H > On 12 Sep 2002 12:52:57 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > wrote: >  > G >>   I was much more sceptical of George W. Bush before Tony Blair cameoF >>   out in his support.  I don't think the PM is that easy to sway orJ >>   leans toward anywhere near the same politics.  I do believe that Bush2 >>   gave Blair details that he can't make public. > E > British Intelligence is very active in the middle east and has beenn > for a long time you know...   G    I'm sure Blair give Bush a few pointers now and then that the lattern    is otherwise oblivious to.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 20:27:09 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MB = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0209171927.46fde0d1@posting.google.com>>  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D7FFE8C.7D064426@fsi.net>... > Hoff Hoffman wrote:u > >  > > In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D506B868@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:w [...]t > > :-----Original Message----- ; > > :From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net] A > > :A megabyte is a megabyte is a megabyte is a megabyte is a...Q    C Actually, according to the NIST Web page whose link is given at thefC bottom of this post, *your* megabyte is actually a mebibyte!!! I amp' not making this up. Check the Web page.l    D > >   No, it's not.  There are (at least) two quite different valuesB > >   for what is called a "megabyte".  Again, please see the FAQ. > G > Hhmmm... Dunno, guy. Multiples of 1024 are the only ones I can get toe# > fall on powers of two boundaries:  >  > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = 1024  > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym aj2 >   A = 1024   Hex = 00000400  Octal = 00000002000 [...]o0 > Admittedly, numbers are not my strongest suit.    8 Well, if that's so, why are you so persistent with this?     > What am I missing here? & > Is there some secret that eludes me?     mega - 10^6a  F "Mega" is the SI prefix for 10^6. Just like a.m. means "ante meridiem"
 and so forth.   C Ah, but what about computers? Well, it looks like the prefix "mega"cA has evolved to have a new, additional meaning! Usage for computer D memory implies that mega is 1024^2. Simlarly, am and pm have evolved new, additional meanings!   J > If I try to write 1GB (1024^3 bytes) of data onto a "1GB" (1024 * 1000^20 > bytes) disk, it won't fit no matter what I do.  C So? All that shows is that different definitions of "gigabyte" havexD been used. The disk people are not constrained by powers of two, andE none of them want to be the (probably sole) company that uses "binarySB gigabytes" which would make their competition's disks appear to beC about 7.5% larger (that's 7.3741824% larger if you really need moreoF precision). So the disk people use SI gigabytes. Ever measure your 17"7 monitor? It's only 16"! These must be 17 "lite" inches.n  E (Before anyone carps on my rounding skills, I got 7.5 by guestimatingeB that the 2.4% error accumulated three times would be slightly moreB than 3*2.4. This is from the fact that (1+x)^n is approx. equal toC 1+nx where x is much less than 1. (And I know that the next term inmB the series will be a very small positive number.) From this I haveF developed a "rule of thumb" that gives the approximate additional sizeE of the binary units as 2.5% for kilo, 5% for mega, and 7.5% for giga, @ etc. So I used the 7.5% figure *before* I decided to pull out myC calculator to get a more precise value. BTW, this guestimate scheme F works quite well *even* up to exabytes, and we're not even there yet.)  , > What's the secret? What am I missing here?   Check this out!:  - http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html   A The above Web page is an attempt to clear up all the confusion. IeB don't think it will catch on; and if it does, it might create even more confusion!e  * Bottom line: Close enough is close enough.   Disclaimer: JMOe Alan E. Feldmane   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:58:22 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>:! Subject: Re: Convert Blocks to MBu' Message-ID: <3D87D53E.B6774E99@fsi.net>o   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > \ > In article <3D83E4FA.7E9AB2B@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > > Carl Perkins wrote:r > >> [snip]cI > >> Just for the record, I do understand your point. Better than you do,p
 > >> in fact.  > > J > > No, you don't. You repeatedly have stated that you refuse to with thatJ > > nonsense about the subject line. You haven't so much as made an effortI > > to understand, or even consider the possibility of a paradigm outsideC
 > > your own.n >  > Yes he does.     No, he doesn't.y   > You're the idiot here. r   Clearly, not the case.   > Just shut up.s   Why? I'm not wrong.p  I > > That is, most of the time. 2000 never will be a power of two. Neither  > > will 500. Get over it. > = > And 1024 will never be a power of ten.  So. Frigging. What?e  H Oh, I get it now - that's the hold up on Itanic: Intel is trying to makeH it not only IA32-compatible, they're trying to make it work in radix ten instead of radix two!e  7 I hope they make it! That'd be slicker than owl spit...o  F > > ...or so you say. In my line of work, errors of that magnitude are( > > potentially lethal on a grand scale. > C > Yeah.  And in your line of work, errors of that magnitude are wayS > way down in the noise too.  G ...until they jump up and bite your balls off, like that one did to us.F* Then, the "noise" is yourself - screaming!   -- : David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems7 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:19:34 -0400o! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>i) Subject: Re: DDS2 tape, Windows to VMS??? ' Message-ID: <3D878046.72A938E2@vcu.edu>a  F you'd need to be sure that it's valid ANSI format... with tape labels, and so forth...i  G If you can't do that, you'd be better off either: cutting a CD with the,H data, and reading it on the vax, or ftp, or use kermit to relay the data across a rs-232 line.i   jima   Sebastien Emery wrote: > N > I want to know if it's possible to save a file on a DDS2 tape on Windows andM > read it bak on VMS?  If it's possible, which format should we use to do so.T5 > And which software should we use, if any available?m >  > Thanks > Sebastien Emery0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:35:42 -0400d7 From: "Sebastien Emery" <Sebastien.Emery@cse-cst.gc.ca> % Subject: DDS2 tape, Windows to VMS???m2 Message-ID: <1032287764.764219@news.drenet.dnd.ca>  L I want to know if it's possible to save a file on a DDS2 tape on Windows andK read it bak on VMS?  If it's possible, which format should we use to do so.73 And which software should we use, if any available?.   Thanks Sebastien Emerym   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 14:10:02 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.orgB Subject: Re: Defining a Logical/Symbol/etc for a Hard coded value?3 Message-ID: <dahp55EBgAmd@eisner.encompasserve.org>J  h In article <20020917165714.A9092@eisenschmidt.org>, John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> writes:
 [big snip] > @dra0:[foo.bar]baz.com > E > Which I'm planning to replace everywhere I can with something like:n > # > @LOGICAL:baz.com or just @LOGICAL- > E > but I'd like to sort of cover my ass in case I miss one. Is there ayD > way I can do something to replace dra0:[foo.bar] with LOGICAL when > it's called?  B If I've understood the problem correctly, you're hoping to correctB your code so that you'll catch every reference to "dra0:[foo.bar]"> with a reference to "LOGICAL".  And you'll arrange for LOGICAL; to be a logical name pointing to a directory containing them" contents of the old dra0:[foo.bar]  C But you aren't sure you can catch them all.  So you want references : to "dra0:[foo.bar]" to continue to work on a machine where$ dra0, foo and bar do not even exist.  @ What I'd suggest is that you create a logical "dra0" pointing to= the disk on which the new [foo.bar] analogue is created.  And  on that disk you do:   	$ CREATE /DIRECTORY [FOO]6 	$ SET FILE /ENTER=[FOO]BAR.DIR analogue-directory.DIR  @ Now if your application generates a reference to dra0:[foo.bar],= it will wind up accessing the analogue directory just like it  is supposed to.o  @ You probably should then put some audit alarms on FOO.DIR to see/ if you can catch attempts to access through it.0   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:27:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>oB Subject: Re: Defining a Logical/Symbol/etc for a Hard coded value?, Message-ID: <3D878232.96C6DB03@videotron.ca>   John Eisenschmidt wrote:E > but I'd like to sort of cover my ass in case I miss one. Is there a D > way I can do something to replace dra0:[foo.bar] with LOGICAL when > it's called?  G On the new drive, create a [foo.bar] directory that has A baz.com file.y( define "dra0" to point to the new drive.  L (drao: might point to a rooted logical  and [foo.bar] might live under that.  N And the baz.com file in that directory might record its use to a log file (whoU used it, what procedure called it etc) and then call the real on in the new location.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:24:44 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i; Subject: Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be) H Message-ID: <0PHh9.48343$8b1.27859@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3D86738B.946D604@videotron.ca...3 > Keith Parris wrote: D > > By having at least one site hundreds of miles away from (and notJ > > downwind of) any potential nuclear targets, possibly even located in a > > different country entirely.  >sF > Wouldn't there be significant data-privacy issues with locating yourK > customer's data in a different country ? Or is this usually a pretty easyh= > issue to deal with as long as you follow some basic rules ?" > L > Have there been any issues with the many US companies that have moves many IT3 > functions to India with regards to data privacy ?i    K EU and many other nations have now enacted data privacy directives that are L far more stringent than those in the USA. But that's not a concern if one isH in the USA. The only real viable 'out of country' option for a wide-areaF cluster for an American  company is Canada, and vice versa - geographyF rules. Mexico isn't really an option. Maybe Bermuda is for some of theC Eastern USA, but then there's always the possibility of hurricanes.   H In the EU, almost any other country is an ok option, as long as it isn't- anywhere near a floodplain or avalanche zone.r    I Biological and chemical threats are equally effective at area denial as a I nuc. Some chemical agents have lethal persistence measured in months once = dispersed, and they settle on any exposed surfaces. ExtensivehL decontamination must be undertaken before an area can be considered safe forL habitation. As unthinkable as all these things are, the chem/bio threats are/ more probable scenarios than even a dirty bomb.   L But that's probably the least of the worries....think about lack of food andE potable water first. Water treatment plants will go off-line when thenB chlorine/ozonator runs out, and food shipments may be quarantined.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:16:01 GMT:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s< Subject: Re: hoew to address dqa0:(ide-cdrom) under cdrecord' Message-ID: <3D87D964.44B84E0B@fsi.net>e   Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote: > [snip] > The syntax is: >  > 8,0,0 = dqa0 > 9,0,0 = dqb0 > 10,0,0 = dqc0  > 11,0,0 = dqd0t > 
 > eberhard   Ah! Excellent! Thanx much!   -- u David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:28:04 -0400a2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>+ Subject: Re: how external input is receivedf. Message-ID: <3D872DE4.14656327@mindspring.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  5 > Have you tried reaching by either means? Good luck!p   Yes.  ( I once got my P-O-S Compaq Presario 1920- laptop fixed by provoking a conversation with  Michael Capellas's office.   Precis:   + My 1920 has never worked crrectly. One day,s2 after it sat in the drawer broken for about a year. (after many previious repairs/attempts), I saw. an article by computer columnist Henry Norr in. the San Francisco Chronicle discussing his new% Compaq Armada laptop. I wrote to him,n. summarizing the history of my 1920 and wishing3 him luck. I copied Michael Capellas's office. I gott) an *AMAZINGLY FAST* callback (not E-Mail)u0 and the machine, long since out of warranty, was- fixed for free and given an extra 64MB of RAM  free!a  0 It broke again shortly thereafter (of course, it, being a true POS) but Capellas (or his team)* does respond when appropriately motivated.  3 VMS'ers just need to find an appropriate motivator.f, Perhaps my "write to a well-known, well-read5 journalist, copy Michael" technique could be re-used?    Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:14:51 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: how external input is receivedn' Message-ID: <3D87D91F.6E028CC2@fsi.net>t   Atlant Schmidt wrote:i >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > 7 > > Have you tried reaching by either means? Good luck!o >  > Yes. > * > I once got my P-O-S Compaq Presario 1920/ > laptop fixed by provoking a conversation withc# > Michael Capellas's office. [snip]   G As Bill Todd might be quick to point out: efforts to approach MC on therD topic of VMS have, in the past, been deflected to Rich Marcello. I'd2 expect the current recipient would be Mark Gorham.  F Suffice it to say, such efforts in the past have been, well, less than" successful, for whatever reason...   -- w David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Sep 2002 20:41 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 3 Subject: Re: How work out time from a duration time - Message-ID: <17SEP200220415580@gerg.tamu.edu>   1 "Fred Jiang" <r54123@email.sps.mot.com> writes...e }hello,  }I worked on VMS platformdL }If there any friend to help me about the time caculate and convert issue on }vms
 }For example,sI }I want get the time of 12days and 13hours and 30 minutes before now or ar) }specific time "2002-sep-09 12:00:00.00".l }Thanks in advance. 	 }Regards,v }Fredh  & It isn't entirely clear what you want.  I At the command line you can get a time difference via f$cvtime() like so:r   $ show time@   17-SEP-2002 20:28:103 $ write sys$output f$cvtime("-12-13:30","absolute")m 5-SEP-2002 06:58:12.13   See HELP LEXICALS F$CVTIME.   > Going the other way (i.e. to get the amount of time between tw@ date-time values, such as 9-sep-2002 12:00:00.00 and now) in DCLC is more complex. There is no built in faunction to do so. A typicaldC method is to compute the modified julian day for each date and thennE do calculations based on that. If this is the sort of thing you need, G you can check the newsgroup archives at www.google.com (since that sort)G of thing has been posted here before), or ask to have one posted again.-  C There are a variety of system service and run-time library routines@7 for doing time manipulation from programming languages.O   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 09:00:02 +0800:- From: "Fred Jiang" <r54123@email.sps.mot.com>e/ Subject: How work out time from a duration timen+ Message-ID: <am8j7r$qv8$1@newshost.mot.com>    hello, I worked on VMS platformK If there any friend to help me about the time caculate and convert issue onn vmsb For example,H I want get the time of 12days and 13hours and 30 minutes before now or a( specific time "2002-sep-09 12:00:00.00". Thanks in advance. Regards, Fred   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:24:03 -0400.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: How work out time from a duration timee, Message-ID: <3D87E3BA.983849E8@videotron.ca>   Fred Jiang wrote:aJ > I want get the time of 12days and 13hours and 30 minutes before now or a* > specific time "2002-sep-09 12:00:00.00".  = If you are programming in C, it would be something like this:    #include <descrip.h> #include <starlet.h>  / $DESCRIPTOR(mytime_desc,"TODAY - 12-13:30:00");  unsigned long time_bin[2];  + status = SYS$BINTIM(&mytime_desc,&time_bin)   P You can then use a variery of routines such as SYS$ASCTIM to get the stuff back.  @ HELP SYSTEM $BINTIM and HELP SYSTEM SYS$ASCTIM to get more info.    E There are also routines such as LIB$ADD_TIMES and LIB$SUB_TIMES to doa mathematics with times.t (HELP RTL LIB LIB$ADD_TIMES )   M If you are working at DCL level only, date mathematic isn't easy. You can usedN google to search the archives of this newsgroup for date mathematics, and some? folks have developped some routines to do some math with dates.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:17:37 -0400m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-# Subject: Re: HP website integration:, Message-ID: <3D877FC9.FE8BB511@videotron.ca>   Rich Jordan wrote:G > Or else maybe they learned a lesson after the utter disaster that was6A > the DEC to Compaq web transition, where information disappeared   N But since they bragged so much about succesful integration on May 7th, I wouldJ have expected all products to simply be under the hp.com umbrella, even if you'd have a url such as:n   www.hp.com/compaq/desktops/...  
 instead of  $ www.compaq.com/products/desktops/...  M Like it or not, the web server configuration has the mapping of all available 6 directories, and it shouldn't be so hard to map those.  J During a transition period, yes, it would be smart to leave www.compaq.comK with all its existing structures etc. But I would expect new products to beO< marketed and available under the hp.com brand and web sites.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 07:40:19 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)pG Subject: Re: HTML to browse the Freeware CDs - grab a copy if you wish. 3 Message-ID: <nWC5pb6Pdk0M@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  w In article <01KMLQ7A4H1U9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:hI >> I am seeking a replacement for the existing character-cell menu systemlL >> presently used for the OpenVMS Freeware, and submissions of a replacementI >> HTML-based menuing system would be appreciated.  (The existing menuing E >> system is good, but does not particularly lend itself to the web.)e > I > Can it please be an additional option, not a replacement?  Only rarely eJ > do web interfaces work better than character-cell interfaces which they 3 > replace.  Not all folks will use it over the web.m  C    The pages at http://www.sture.homeip.net do read fairly well viaoF    lynx, although a bit staggered.  (And the freeware50/cd link points!    to a path that doesn't exist).i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:06:31 -0600-0 From: "Dale Coy" <dalecoy@obfuscation.spinn.net>9 Subject: I want to be a Candidate for the Encompass Boardh+ Message-ID: <am894u$9ql$1@pith.uoregon.edu>v  1 I want to be on the Encompass Board of Directors.   E I'm sending this to ask for help from Encompass members, so I will be2K allowed to be a candidate in the Board of Directors election. Let's let the I informed electorate of stakeholders (paying members) decide who is on thei Board.  K If you see this multiple times, please accept my apologies - there's no way - to send it to "Encompass members, just once".    If you:c Consider this to be SPAM, or= Believe that members should not petition to be candidates, orm1 Aren't an Encompass member and/or aren't curious,o< Please just go to the next topic - or feel free to flame me.  A If you consider it inappropriate for me to post my background andaK qualifications, or think this is unfair to the candidates already picked bygH Encompass, please do not read any more. Or feel free to say so publicly.    - My name is Dale Coy. Some of you may know me.a  L I would like the privilege of running for election to the Encompass Board ofK Directors. I submitted an application for consideration for nomination, butb. the election committee did not pick me to run.  I Therefore, I am soliciting petitions from members in good standing, to beeG permitted to run as a candidate. To be allowed to run, I need petitionsU< numbering 15% of those members voting in the 2001 election -H I request and value your action. Because of the small number of members,J every petition is important - please don't just say "somebody else will do it".  G Please send the following simple petition to Encompass headquarters. It J needs to be received by 5:00 on Friday September 20. So, the petition must	 be FAXed..   The Petition should state:G "As a member in good standing of Encompass, I nominate Dale Coy, membere3 166993, for the 2003 Encompass Board of Directors."e  ? Please be sure that your name, company and signature are on theh! petition so they can be verified.t  6 Petitions by e-mail will NOT be accepted by Encompass.  ) Petitions must be faxed to: 312-673-4609.     
 Thank you.   Dale E. CoyV  * dalecoy@spinn.net or coy@encompasserve.org  @ Please feel free to send e-mail if you have questions, or ask onI Encompasserve, or in comp.org.decus, comp.os.vms (here), or the technicali* forums of www.tru64.org or www.openvms.org    . Part of my qualifications are described below.# ===================================n  G I did my first computer work in 1958, and I'm currently a manager in aniL organization using OpenVMS, StorageWorks, and Windows-centric desktops using Proliant servers.a  J BS Electrical Engineering, MS Computer Science, CCP Certificate in Systems( Programming since 1977, Vietnam veteran.  + Now, with the formalities out of the way...   L I've been active in User Groups since 1972 (CDC), and I'm currently a memberK of Encompass and Interex. I've been a member of DECUS/Encompass since 1982.tJ Received a DECUS Outstanding Technical Contribution by an Individual awardK in 1990, was part of the group that got DECUS connected to the Internet and H received an award in 1992. Received six certificates of appreciation for: contributions to the DECUS International Software Library.  C I am very proud of the DECUS/Digital Anniversary Award for Lifetime-$ Achievement that I received in 1996.  9 As I moved around the country, I have been active in five:K DECUS/Encompass LUGs, and am currently active in Encompass' Los Alamos LUG.   L Also, I've been active in SIGs. An early member of the OA SIG (later AIM andJ BOAIM), and of the VAX (later VMS) SIG, and participant in the PAGESWAPPER
 online forum.C  C I was one of the first system managers of the OA SIG's OASIS onlineeI conferencing forum - the first online forum in DECUS (1987) - and managed  OASIS until its end in 1990.  E Having joined the DECUServe conferencing system in 1989, I became itsnD Manager of System in 1990, continuing to actively participate in theK management of the successor Encompasserve online system. I am currently thet: Chair of the Encompasserve system. (www.encompasserve.org)  J I would like to return to Encompass a part of what has been given to me by DECUS/Encompass in the past.  % I hope I'll see you all in St. Louis.   > Thanks for your support, and for remembering to send that fax!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:23:35 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l= Subject: Re: I want to be a Candidate for the Encompass Boardo, Message-ID: <3D87C786.FA702703@videotron.ca>  O Mr Coy, why don't you get in touch with Sue and try to start a VMS user group ?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:09:54 -0400s; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> % Subject: RE: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERToK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEACC@rlghncst964.usps.gov>e  , I thought that Lawrence and Gordon had been  dead for quite some time now.    :^)a   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----. From: "Alan Greig" [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]) Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 8:34 AMt To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" % Subject: RE: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTo    F On 12 Sep 2002 12:52:57 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:    F >   I was much more sceptical of George W. Bush before Tony Blair cameE >   out in his support.  I don't think the PM is that easy to sway or I >   leans toward anywhere near the same politics.  I do believe that Bush-1 >   gave Blair details that he can't make public.4  C British Intelligence is very active in the middle east and has beenu for a long time you know...6   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:32:56 -0400O- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTt, Message-ID: <3D877553.FFE623E1@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote: E > British Intelligence is very active in the middle east and has been  > for a long time you know...l    K Which begs the question: After 9-11, how come the Bitish didn't send "James K Bond"  to afghanistan to find and kill Ossama without having the need for a  whole war thing ?I  N (Come to think of it, how come he wasn't taken out of commission by the secret0 services of UK, Israel or USA well before 9-11.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:57:00 GMTu1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>m% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERT2. Message-ID: <gOLh9.501540$UU1.83867@sccrnsc03>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D877553.FFE623E1@videotron.ca... > Alan Greig wrote:eG > > British Intelligence is very active in the middle east and has been: > > for a long time you know...: >  >>F > Which begs the question: After 9-11, how come the Bitish didn't send "JamesK > Bond"  to afghanistan to find and kill Ossama without having the need forS a  > whole war thing ?u >rI > (Come to think of it, how come he wasn't taken out of commission by the  secret2 > services of UK, Israel or USA well before 9-11.)  I Aghanistan is a pretty big place to play "Where's Waldo?" So is Pakistan.p' For all I know the guy is in Cleveland.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:25:00 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>-% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTr' Message-ID: <3D878F9C.214F3902@aaa.com>n  $ "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" wrote: > - > I thought that Lawrence and Gordon had beent > dead for quite some time now.f >     9 This all leads us back to some interesting facts, such as 6 it was the britts that "designed" Iraq and also leaved9 Quwait out from it, so the britts could keep control over = the trade to/from Iraq (one suspected/knowed at the time thatt4 there was a lot of oil under the desert). Otherwise,7 it might have been more logical to incorporate what was . Quwait at the time in what was to become Iraq.  ; And Lawrence played a role i this, but more so ms. Gertrudes7 Bell, who was perhaps the most important arhitects wheny@ building Iraq. Those interested can read the book "Desert Queen": by Janet Wallach, where the history of Ms Bell and Iraq is> told. Her life was perhaps even more fascinating then Lawrence3 "of Arabia", but he have had a film made about him.p  6 So, there is a least a little real history behind when< Saddam speakes about the "19'th provinse of Iraq", in a way.  - Not my opinions, b.t.w, just plain history....   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 21:06:46 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)% Subject: Re: IMPORTANT SECURITY ALERTt< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0209172006.92f7772@posting.google.com>  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3D878F9C.214F3902@aaa.com>... & > "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" wrote: > >  [...] ; > This all leads us back to some interesting facts, such as28 > it was the britts that "designed" Iraq and also leaved [...]c  A Tropicana Pure Premium Orange Juice now comes in three varieties:    No pulp   
 Too much pulps   Way too much pulps  8 :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) 7  :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-a7 ) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :n8 -) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)       Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:05:00 GMT.1 From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@Julian5Locals.com> F Subject: Re: Is anyone using kernel threads with the pthread library ?D Message-ID: <0jQh9.1331$L35.103556@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   Nathan Rozentals wrote:t   > Dear All,nL > Is anyone using multiple kernel threads with the pthread runtime library ?G > We are having problems with standard io routines sprintf(), fprintf()   > when running threading on VMS.B > Also, how do I find out what runtime libraries are thread-safe ? > 3 > We're on 7.3, with the latest PTHREAD 0300 echo ." > 9 > Any info / suggestions / contacts would be appreciated.n  > Stall and no the smae but it does meet the "any info" request.; When using VAXELN which had thread builtin to the system we0< had to deal with printf. All printfs were packed up and sent to another program for display.d   -- . C.W.Holeman II cwhii5@Julian5Locals.com remove the fives http://also.as/cwhii   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:41:15 -0400 5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>eB Subject: Local User Group meeting Announcment - Washington DC area* Message-ID: <am77tg$2q0$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  5 Next ESILUG Meeting: Tuesday, September 24, 1:00-4:00n  G Location: the usual place, (now) HP Greenbelt (directions on ESILUG webn  , site) Please register on the ESILUG web site> (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/) if you plan to attend.  H Topics are listed below. Abstracts and speaker bios are on the web site.  B - Encompass/ESILUG news (brief!) - Jim Becker, The Urban Institute  . - HP Organizational Update - Dave Hemphill, HP  A - What is Microsoft .Net and how does it affect today's computing J infrastructure? A Non Microsoft-Non Marketing perspective - Mathew Soltis,   HP  1 - HP Blade Server Architectures - Roger Starr, HPa   --  
 Jim Becker  + The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/)t  ' Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)A  . ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:02:34 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: MAIL suggestion, Message-ID: <3D876E37.EDC7C7EE@videotron.ca>   Mark Boyes wrote:.J > Though note that if your users move to a client connected to the OpenVMSI > TCP/IP Services IMAP server, the server will not recognise such headersgC > as being headers: instead the To/From/CC/Subj from the top of thee > message will be mapped.l  N And the MIME utility will not be able to extract stuff from the contents sinceK it expects the mail header (especially the bit that defines the attachement ( boundaries) to be before the mime stuff.  M In the old days, having the RFC header at bottom was great because it removedoG all the cruft and left you with just the message. (especially for shorta< messages such as "yeah, I will meet you at 12:00 for lunch).  K But now that internet mail with attachements has become more prevalent, and7G now that VMS has POP and IMAP servers, having the headers at the top isnL becoming important. In the end, it is the mail client (both CC and GUI) thatM must hide the cruft and display it on demand when one needs to "debug" a mailf message (or spam).   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:24:58 +0000 (UTC)f+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)- Subject: Re: MAIL suggestion+ Message-ID: <am86j9$rd2$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>r  w In article <01KMLQ3BF6AQ9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:2H >> Although I sympathise with the idea of hiding the headers (or as someK >> users would say getting rid of all that crud at the top of the message). G >> You must make it very easy for the user to display those headers and F >> most importantly to be able to forward those headers along with the >> message.  > & >$  TCPIP SET CONF SMTP/OPTION=HEADERS >lB >This will put them at the bottom.  REALLY nice when just hitting 4 >keypad 0 to scan the beginning of several messages.  M I haven't looked at this for ages but I seem to recall that some POP and IMAPr: clients get rather upset if the headers aren't at the top.  
 David Webb VMS and unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Sep 2002 08:26:39 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: MAIL suggestion- Message-ID: <87admg6t34.fsf@prep.synonet.com>d  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:a  ? > We all know that it is inevitable that the VMS engineers will D > eventually start work to bring vms MAIL into the 21st century with > decent support for internet.  "? > One suggestion I have is the ability to QUICKLY hide/show theMB > internet headers. On the GUI, just a simple button. On characterD > cell interface, perhaps a control key would toggle the display and4 > redisplay the current message in the new "format".  B But first, change the record size of MAIL.MAI to, ah... 4K I think? was the value I worked out, so 90%+ of your messages are in thel: stupid file, and get rid of those obscene directory files.  @ It should be a 1 line change to MAILSHR. Plus fortytwo tonnes of	 testing. A   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.J@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 02:09:07 GMTe From: schiffkey@cfl.rr.com Subject: Re: MANUaL DCL-6 Message-ID: <3d87e020.16699252@news-server.cfl.rr.com>  ( doesn't everyone have an old dcl manual * in .pdf format on their c:\deadvax folder?   guess what? i do !   email schiffkey@cfl.rr.com    = On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:29:02 GMT, peter@langstoeger.at (Peteri    LANGSTOEGER) wrote:  ` >In article <ee9e24f1.0209060220.2eb70c61@posting.google.com>, ac.atn@sarenet.es (David) writes:G >>Im trying to redo a .com file for printing on a plotter and i need a.1 >>mual of dcl, someone knows where can i find it?s > . >Online at http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/% >(Used) Paper at http://www.ebay.com/  >e >--  >Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER& >Network and OpenVMS system specialist >E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atpQ >A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)a   ------------------------------   Date: 17 SEP 2002 16:42:14 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)F Subject: Re: Micro$oft exec says all os's stink ... forgets about VMS!6 Message-ID: <17SEP02.16421469@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  = In a previous article, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:e -> ...? ->Where they might be in great danger is with Active Directory. E ->Microsoft used to say that a "domain" was a security boundary. In aiH ->security briefing from Microsoft last week we were informed that MS noH ->longer say this.  Due to *fundamental* and *unfixable* design flaws inA ->Active Directory, physical access to any domain controller in a = ->"forest" can be used to compromise the entire organization.e -> ,H ->Microsoft are effectively re-writing huge portions of Active Directory9 ->from scratch. There can be no "quick fix" they told us.s  D Interesting ammunition. Do you have a url or other reference to this statement from MS?   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison : --                   karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:13:40 -0400n2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. . Message-ID: <3D872A84.A97A06BD@mindspring.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > Atlant Schmidt wrote:D >., > > Well, yes, they were documented *IF* you, > > want to take the word of the young woman1 > > who first claimed them but then turned out to>0 > > be part of the Kuwaiti royal family, a group0 > > with a definite vested interest in having us. > > come to Kuwait and save their royal a**es. > J > Well, unless she was accompanied by the vangard of the US troops, a filmI > crew, and teams of reporters and photographers, I'm sure you're talking   > about something else entirely. >oH > PLEASE! Go to the library and look it up. Remember, the Internet was aI > "what's that?" thing back in the Gulf War days - I'm fairly certain you  > won't find it on-line.  / David, I'm quite familiar with the specifics of0- the situation I'm citing, and you can be too.i Just Google for:  *   Kuwaiti "royal family" babies incubators  , You will find more than a hundred references) with slight variations on the searchtermsg producing hundreds more.  - Here's one, describing Hill and Knowlton, thed, PR firm that was behind the story (and, BTW,$ is still funded by the Republicans):  +   http://www.spynews.net/HillKnowlton3.htmlo  7 > ...H&K thus fabricated the story that `Iraqi soldiers 7 > had removed 312 babies from their incubators and leftr2 > them to die on the cold hospital floor of Kuwait/ > City'(7). The story was first reported to thea. > London Daily Telegraph (September 5th, 1990)6 > by exiled Kuwaiti housing minister and member of CFK6 Yahya al-Sumait. Because of the high emotional content7 > of the story, it was repeated globally by much of them4 > media, none of whom adequately checked the source. >14 > According to MacArthur (1993), `the senior account6 > people on the Kuwaiti account included Craig Fuller,1 > Bush's former chief of staff when Bush was Viced1 > President'. Using this connection, H&K set up ae- > hearing with the Congressional Human Rightsh1 > caucus on October 10th 1990 where they producedh5 > `Nayirah', a 15-year Kuwaiti who gave the followingm > statement: >a7 > 'I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital witht4 > guns, and go into the room where 15 babies were in9 > incubators. They took the babies out of the incubators, 6 > took the incubators, and left the babies on the cold > floor to die.'(7)o > , > According to MacArthur (1993), H&K 'made a6 > brilliant little video news release out of it, which/ > they beamed all over the world. It was on NBCi2 > Nightly News and millions and millions of people > saw this'. >w- > This story was then presented to the Unitedw1 > Nations Security Council during an audio-visual , > presentation on the 27th November 1990. In. > addition to `Nayirah', seven other witnesses0 > were produced, five of whom 'coached by Hill &0 > Knowlton - had used false names without saying > they were doing so' (7). >-4 > Nayirah was, in fact, 'the daughter of the Kuwaiti/ > Ambassador to the United States' (1), and had 2 > been coached by Lauri Fitz-Pegado to deliver the3 > testimony which (according to Strauber & Rampton)a7 > 'even the Kuwaitis' own investigators later confirmedn6 > was false'. Not only had she never seen the atrocity9 > she had alleged to, but had never been to the hospital,c > much less worked there. ...n    3 Face it: We're going to go to war so King George II 3 can avenge the loss of face that his daddy sufferedn- when Saddam Hussein remained in office whilstl2 George I was tossed out of his on his ear in favor of Bill Clinton.  , Dubya is willing to risk Armagedon to avenge+ that slight to the Bush Family Evil Empire.f  * Oh, and then there's the side benefit that1 a war will drive up world oil prices, benefitting ( Bush, Cheney, and all their cronies. And& Halliburton, Cheney's company seems to) get an amazing number of the contracts toc- build war facilities, rebuild war-ravaged oil[ fields, and the like.)   Bush motto:i  .   "Privatize the Profits, Socialize the Costs"   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:36:56 -0400h2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.Y. Message-ID: <3D875A28.A21BA5E2@mindspring.com>  / If you don't think the Bush's use commercial PR 5 to prop up their wars, here's a story from the Londonn Times:  <     http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-418110,00.html  ( > THE Bush Administration is to launch a- > multimillion-dollar PR blitz against Saddamh* > Hussein, using advertising techniques to/ > persuade crucial target groups that the Iraqi5 > leader must be ousted. >e* > The campaign will consist of dossiers of, > evidence detailing Saddam's breaches of UN0 > resolutions, and will be launched this week at1 > American and foreign audiences, particularly int4 > Arab nations sceptical of US policy in the region. > ( > The White House is aware that it lacks* > substantial new intelligence on Saddam's0 > nuclear programme or evidence directly linking2 > Baghdad to the September 11 attacks. But it will2 > build on the contents of President Bush's speech/ > made to the UN General Assembly last week, in.8 > which he listed Saddam's violations of UN resolutions. > 6 > The campaign, which will initially receive over $2001 > million (130 million), will be overseen by the-2 > Office of Global Communications, whose existence2 > will not be formally announced until next month.   Government of the Corporation, by the Corpoation, and for the Corporation.  ) $200 million of your tax dollars at work,o' spent by MiniTru, to sell the world Oilo! War II, "Revenge of the Shrub!" .8   Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:33:59 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.rB Message-ID: <rAKh9.109366$gf6.4079351@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messagen( news:3D875A28.A21BA5E2@mindspring.com...1 > If you don't think the Bush's use commercial PR  > to prop up their warso  H That ties in with an interesting comment I happened to catch on HeadlineK News a few days ago.  A Bush official was describing the PR effort to builddL up sentiment (especially in Congress) for an attack on Iraq.  When asked whyD it hadn't begun earlier, his reply was "No one launches a product in
 August..."   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:43:34 GMT-1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>n! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.x. Message-ID: <GBLh9.450483$me6.54222@sccrnsc01>  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messageo( news:3D875A28.A21BA5E2@mindspring.com...1 > If you don't think the Bush's use commercial PRn7 > to prop up their wars, here's a story from the Londonc > Times: >a> >     http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-418110,00.html >m  J Having been in the intel business and distinctly recalling JFK's PR on theK Cuban Missile Crisis (heck, we had U-2 photos showing Soviet troops readingtH Pravda or Playboy in roofless privies, for heaven's sake, and JFK wasn'tD reluctant to compromise the collection assets with his show and tellC routine) I really have to wonder why Bush didn't see fit to produceeI something more tangible. Assuming he has such to produce, and I haven't aeI clue one way or the other. Having read the works of Gertz, I have a hunchs4 that there are some pictures or something somewhere.  J Whatever, not a very convincing job. Have to wait and see what the British% Cousins produce on the 24th, I guess.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:37:54 GMTE1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>s! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. . Message-ID: <mwLh9.450460$me6.54106@sccrnsc01>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:jaaeousjl13i6foto1fe23u1a5bitbbgnv@4ax.com...7 > On Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:52:24 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"e  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >oF > >I think you'll find that these attrocities were documented (photos,G > >eye-witnesses, survivors, dying declarations of victims, etc.) quiteh > >thoroughly. >sH > The UK and the USA conspired to cover up Iraq's worst abuses back when& > Iraq was our 'friend' in the region.  K Off-topic as it may be, I recall little hue and cry back here in the States J when an Iraqi Super Etendard loosed an Exocet on the U.S.S. Stark. 39 KIA,I IIRC. Not quite on the scale of the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty,s> but one would expect a certain level of angst over the attack.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:26:53 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)q! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.u+ Message-ID: <am836d$q9d$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   [ In article <3D868BB1.D794819A@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:u >Atlant Schmidt wrote: >>   >> "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  >> a4 >> > > It turns out that many of those "attrocities"5 >> > > (e.g., "babies tossed out of incubators so the - >> > > incubators could be moved to Baghdad")p8 >> > > never existed except in the minds of a particular6 >> > > PR firm that was hired to promote the war. And,4 >> > > BTW, that same PR firm is still in the employ% >> > > of some of the factions today.- >> >H >> > I think you'll find that these attrocities were documented (photos,I >> > eye-witnesses, survivors, dying declarations of victims, etc.) quite  >> > thoroughly. >> E+ >> Well, yes, they were documented *IF* you + >> want to take the word of the young womany0 >> who first claimed them but then turned out to/ >> be part of the Kuwaiti royal family, a groupi/ >> with a definite vested interest in having usn- >> come to Kuwait and save their royal a**es.  >BI >Well, unless she was accompanied by the vangard of the US troops, a film H >crew, and teams of reporters and photographers, I'm sure you're talking >about something else entirely.G >aG >PLEASE! Go to the library and look it up. Remember, the Internet was ahH >"what's that?" thing back in the Gulf War days - I'm fairly certain you >won't find it on-line.e >.    F David you really are gullible if you believed the babies tossed out ofF incubators story. The "enemy are monsters who kill babies" myth has an% extremely long history as propaganda.s  K A quick search of the web turns up the following (note even if the internet2N wasn't as fully developed as now commentary on major historical incidents will. undoubtedly have been added since the events).   :-   "tK Here's a reference to one, an example of the need to consider evidence with C an open mind. It's an excerpt from an article,  "The disinformationo  campaign", by Phillip Knightley:  @ http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4270014,00.html   Begin quote:  I Take the Kuwaiti babies story. Its origins go back to the first world wariJ when British propaganda accused the Germans of tossing Belgian babies intoK the air and catching them on their bayonets. Dusted off and updated for the H Gulf war, this version had Iraqi soldiers bursting into a modern KuwaitiK hospital, finding the premature babies ward and then tossing the babies out @ of incubators so that the incubators could be sent back to Iraq.  E The story, improbable from the start, was first reported by the DailyuG Telegraph in London on September 5 1990. But the story lacked the humanhK element; it was an unverified report, there were no pictures for televisionb9 and no interviews with mothers grieving over dead babies.   K That was soon rectified. An organisation calling itself Citizens for a FreenF Kuwait (financed by the Kuwaiti government in exile) had signed a $10mK contract with the giant American public relations company, Hill & Knowlton, H to campaign for American military intervention to oust Iraq from Kuwait.  L The Human Rights Caucus of the US Congress was meeting in October and Hill &J Knowlton arranged for a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl to tell the babies' storyI before the congressmen. She did it brilliantly, choking with tears at therB right moment, her voice breaking as she struggled to continue. TheE congressional committee knew her only as "Nayirah" and the television-H segment of her testimony showed anger and resolution on the faces of theL congressmen listening to her. President Bush referred to the story six timesD in the next five weeks as an example of the evil of Saddam's regime.  K In the Senate debate whether to approve military action to force Saddam outfE of Kuwait, seven senators specifically mentioned the incubator babiesoJ atrocity and the final margin in favour of war was just five votes. John RL Macarthur's study of propaganda in the war says that the babies atrocity wasJ a definitive moment in the campaign to prepare the American public for the need to go to war.  I It was not until nearly two years later that the truth emerged. The storyYL was a fabrication and a myth, and Nayirah, the teenage Kuwaiti girl, coachedL and rehearsed by Hill & Knowlton for her appearance before the CongressionalK Committee, was in fact the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United L States. By the time Macarthur revealed this, the war was won and over and it did not matter any more.  
 End quote.   "e    L The article mentions the use of this black propaganda during the first worldM war but it is much much older than that. The ancient Romans accused the earlyc: christians of sacrificing babies in their secret rituals.   I This has been used so often throughout history to demonise the enemy that N whenever someone makes claims about the enemy killing babies you can be almost certain that it is a slander.i    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:00:52 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N..' Message-ID: <3D87D5D7.3727B514@fsi.net>i   Atlant Schmidt wrote:c >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > > Atlant Schmidt wrote:i > >u. > > > Well, yes, they were documented *IF* you. > > > want to take the word of the young woman3 > > > who first claimed them but then turned out tou2 > > > be part of the Kuwaiti royal family, a group2 > > > with a definite vested interest in having us0 > > > come to Kuwait and save their royal a**es. > >:L > > Well, unless she was accompanied by the vangard of the US troops, a filmK > > crew, and teams of reporters and photographers, I'm sure you're talking0" > > about something else entirely. > >eJ > > PLEASE! Go to the library and look it up. Remember, the Internet was aK > > "what's that?" thing back in the Gulf War days - I'm fairly certain yous > > won't find it on-line. > 1 > David, I'm quite familiar with the specifics ofu& > the situation I'm citing, ... [snip]  E I'm sure you are. My point is that we're talking about two, separate, / distinct situations surrounding the same event.    -- . David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:03:17 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.g' Message-ID: <3D87D668.4427AE5F@fsi.net>d   David Webb wrote:  > ] > In article <3D868BB1.D794819A@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:0 > >Atlant Schmidt wrote: > >> > >> "David J. Dachtera" wrote:w > >>6 > >> > > It turns out that many of those "attrocities"7 > >> > > (e.g., "babies tossed out of incubators so theo/ > >> > > incubators could be moved to Baghdad") : > >> > > never existed except in the minds of a particular8 > >> > > PR firm that was hired to promote the war. And,6 > >> > > BTW, that same PR firm is still in the employ' > >> > > of some of the factions today.  > >> >J > >> > I think you'll find that these attrocities were documented (photos,K > >> > eye-witnesses, survivors, dying declarations of victims, etc.) quiteM > >> > thoroughly. > >>- > >> Well, yes, they were documented *IF* youn- > >> want to take the word of the young woman 2 > >> who first claimed them but then turned out to1 > >> be part of the Kuwaiti royal family, a group 1 > >> with a definite vested interest in having usk/ > >> come to Kuwait and save their royal a**es.b > >nK > >Well, unless she was accompanied by the vangard of the US troops, a filmyJ > >crew, and teams of reporters and photographers, I'm sure you're talking! > >about something else entirely.p > >oI > >PLEASE! Go to the library and look it up. Remember, the Internet was aiJ > >"what's that?" thing back in the Gulf War days - I'm fairly certain you > >won't find it on-line.e > >  > H > David you really are gullible if you believed the babies tossed out ofH > incubators story. The "enemy are monsters who kill babies" myth has an. > extremely long history as propaganda. [snip]  D If you go back re-read, you'll see that nowhere do I acknowledge any credence of that story.    -- l David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:05:25 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.E' Message-ID: <3D87D6E8.99691361@fsi.net>b   Alan Greig wrote:, > 7 > On Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:52:24 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"e  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > F > >I think you'll find that these attrocities were documented (photos,G > >eye-witnesses, survivors, dying declarations of victims, etc.) quiter > >thoroughly. > H > The UK and the USA conspired to cover up Iraq's worst abuses back when& > Iraq was our 'friend' in the region.  G I really wasn't into "world affairs" back then, so I don't know if thatyB was before or after Sadam hit the kurds with his bio-tech weapons.   --   David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systems8 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 04:35:54 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. B Message-ID: <KoTh9.108849$AR1.4424666@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D87D6E8.99691361@fsi.net...e   ...   I > I really wasn't into "world affairs" back then, so I don't know if thattD > was before or after Sadam hit the kurds with his bio-tech weapons.  G No need to remain ignorant, however:  Google is your friend, and a half I minute's effort looking for 'iraq kurds gas' yielded the information thatS8 the (or at least an) attack occurred on August 25, 1988.  K And indeed through the Reagan Administration and well into George I's, IraqvL was our friend.  We even gave them biological cultures suitable for using toJ create weapons (Nightline just happened to run a feature on this tonight),@ as well as removed export restrictions so that they could obtainK supercomputing technology suitable for nuclear development.  When they usedmK gas on the Iranians during the war we helped them fight (with both hardwareoD and intelligence) we didn't say a word, and when they (presumably byK mistake) hit the Stark with a missile we emphasized how important it was tos3 keep *Iran* from disturbing the region's stability.9  H No wonder they thought we'd look the other way when they invaded Kuwait.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:02:21 +0200w" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>- Subject: Re: Non-standard installation of VMS 5 Message-ID: <am7qo7$3g18i$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>I  
 Konstantin  : you might want to trim the installed VMS system with $ RUN SYS$UPDATE:VMSTAILORE DECwindows base support must be installed with VMS itself. The actual0@ DECwindows files in DECW072.% may be added later on as well with SYS$UPDATE:DECW$TAILOR.EXE   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:38:38 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a7 Subject: Re: Opcom when SYSGEN modifies the params filea, Message-ID: <3D87E724.F88D7EB1@videotron.ca>  L Just looked in the old V5.5-2 manual (the last "real" books) and for SYSGEN,L there didn't appear to be a parameter that one could specify to force SYSGENA to write an OPCOM message whenever it modified a parameters file.f  I I remember it being very useful when propagating soem changes to multiplemC system roots from a since session (USE <filename> , SET xxx , WRITE1M <filename>) and the opcom messages were a confirmation I wrote it properly in L the operator.log. It was a onle line OPCOM message (below the OPCOM header),5 as opposed to the standard audit multi line messages.g   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Sep 2002 07:56:49 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>7 Subject: Re: Opcom when SYSGEN modifies the params filet- Message-ID: <87elbs6ugu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>k  - Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org> writes:   * > This sounds like a security thing to me: ...o   > SYSMAN> par set quantum 30 > SYSMAN> par write currenta: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  16-SEP-2002 20:08:08.06  %%%%%%%%%%%* > Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on QUARRY7 > Security alarm (SECURITY) on QUARRY, system id: 10256o0 > Auditable event:          SYSGEN parameter set3 > Event time:               16-SEP-2002 20:08:08.06 $ > PID:                      3060C294" > Process name:             RMOORE" > Username:                 RMOORE$ > Process owner:            [RMOORE]# > Terminal name:            LTA9203oI > Image name:               $1$DUA500:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXEoA > Parameters write:         SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;3bA > Parameters inuse:         SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;3 ( > QUANTUM:                  New:      30( >                           Original: 20  C But if you use a PAR WRITE <filename>, not a peep... :( Also if you0@ use something else to write the parameter file there is no audit entry.   -- F< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 02:02:00 GMTo From: schiffkey@cfl.rr.com Subject: or just a programmer?6 Message-ID: <3d87de13.16174497@news-server.cfl.rr.com>  ? I really enjoy this lively conversation about looking for work.   F At least we are lead to believe that system admins are still required.  5 Now, if you can convince me that computer programmerskD (cobol, vax/vms, ingres, or any flavour of basic, pascal, c, synergyF dbl) are still required. Heck with the new development, I'll take some serious maintenance !:  % just email me at schiffkey@cfl.rr.comn  5 ps: yes, i do hear of jobs, but never for cobol /vax s usually, its  c vax or c unix.        ? On 15 Sep 2002 23:20:25 -0700, chinachowchow@mailcity.com (Ricke Nickles) wrote:f  4 >Hi,  Sorry about that - I live in Stevens Point, WI >o >Rick  >( > [ >p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<5JpO2frST7xo@elias.decus.ch>...mr >> In article <ac4e3b24.0209141413.40c3f946@posting.google.com>, chinachowchow@mailcity.com (Rick Nickles) writes: >> > Thanks so much!!b >> >  I >> > Please let me know if you have other ideas! As far as geography I am I >> > open.  I realize that I will probably need to relocate, contract, orWJ >> > work from home somehow.  There isn't much in this area.  I would likeJ >> > to make sure that wherever the work has a good work market so that ifG >> > something happens I can find another place to go without uprooting  >> > over and over.t >> > t >> > thanks!	 >> > Rick  >> >   >> yH >> But you still didn't answer the question. You never know, there couldI >> be a potential employer close by, that you don't know about. I mentionkL >> this because a few years ago I stumbled across a local job with a companyE >> who I had assumed was pure IBM, but turned out to run VMS as well,d> >> simply because I mentioned my location in a newsgroup post. >> > >>  m >> > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<Ewq47tZ5sOcT@eisner.encompasserve.org>...aq >> >> In article <M7vg9.15992$Wa.914882@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:eT >> >> > You may want to post this message in the OpenVMS.org resume forum.  It can't
 >> >> > hurt.  >> >> > 2 >> >> > http://www.openvms.org/phorum/list.php?f=3 >> >> @ >> >> It also would not hurt to indicate a geography preference. >> >>  >>  	 >> <snip>: >> __:
 >> Paul Sture: >> Switzerland   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:26:16 +1000-9 From: forMsytAhm@optusShom.com.aKu (Mark(un-MASK)Forsyth)m" Subject: Re: or just a programmer?7 Message-ID: <slrnaofp28.lk.forMsytAhm@plague.bogus.com>e  [ On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 02:02:00 GMT, schiffkey@cfl.rr.com <schiffkey@cfl.rr.com> gushed forth:z@ >I really enjoy this lively conversation about looking for work. >eG >At least we are lead to believe that system admins are still required.n >d  X In some places they may well be. In Melbourne Aust. there's been one position advertised in the last 2 years.< For all intents and purposes I'd say VMS was dead here...:-(  	 [deletia]h   --       Oorooo	 Mark F...o  $ Another Optus Cable Traffic Monitor.3 http://www.members.optushome.com.au/forsythm/traff/    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 07:18:38 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)k Subject: RE: ORD3 Message-ID: <MkWLqThM8V6R@eisner.encompasserve.org>I  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEODFLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:-: > Well, discussions of what the three char designation forA > a particular airport might be doesn't strike me as particularlye= > germane to that of a list presumably dedicated to technical$ > discussions relating to VMS.  @    There are a lot of pilots in the c.o.v community, and in thisA    community we pretty much discuss whatever we damn well please.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:19:53 -0400f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: ORD, Message-ID: <3D877245.8876FD3C@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:? > Oh, I don't know....  ORD - BOS - AVP - EWR - BAl - IAD - VMS  > ; > They all have one thing in common - three letters!!   ;-)o  ? Up here, licence plates have 3 alpha and 3 numeric characters. s  < I always am reminded of VMS whenever I see letters such as :   VMSe WPLr TXTa EXE- OBJi TLBk HLP  HLBr   etc etct   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:33:50 -0700S# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s Subject: RE: ORD9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEAHFMAA.tom@kednos.com>0  = Well, it would be most considerate of you if you might prefix:? the subjecy matteer of your postings with, e.g., BS: or similar  so that we can kill file it.   >-----Original Message-----a5 >From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]P* >Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 6:19 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: RE: ORDo >C >b@ >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEODFLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:t; >> Well, discussions of what the three char designation forsB >> a particular airport might be doesn't strike me as particularly> >> germane to that of a list presumably dedicated to technical >> discussions relating to VMS.o >oA >   There are a lot of pilots in the c.o.v community, and in this B >   community we pretty much discuss whatever we damn well please. >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.c; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).r@ >Version: 6.0.385 / Virus Database: 217 - Release Date: 9/4/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.385 / Virus Database: 217 - Release Date: 9/4/2002-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:12:15 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s= Subject: Re: Seeking Senior VMS System Administrator Positione' Message-ID: <3D87D883.DC6FD00E@fsi.net>s   Rick Nickles wrote:< >  > Greetings! > F >      I was recently involved in a major downsizing, and I am seekingB > employment.  If there is anyone who knows of any VMS openings orC > anything that may be appropriate for a person with a MS degree in C > Computer Science and 15 years of VMS experience.  Apparently thiseE > layoff was primarily due to the financial state of our company, andEF > also due to the fact that they do not plan to use VMS in the future.G > I would be more than happy to forward my resume on request. Thank yous  > so much for any help or ideas.  	 Hi, Rick,   C Saw a post by way of HotJobs for a VMS SysAdmin in Cinci. Posted byh Robert Half.  ; http://www.hotjobs.com/cgi-bin/job-show?J__PINDEX=JEJ2K7O5Ui   --   David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/:   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:01:02 +0200i9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>h  Subject: Re: SMTP Authentication' Message-ID: <3D87A61E.4548FFCF@aaa.com>o  9 Isn't this "smtp authorization" thing done by having eachf> smtp server doing a reverse DNS lookup on the name and addressC presented by the calling side. If the address and name don't match,t# the server don't accept the "call".e   Jan-Erik Sderholm.l   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:21:04 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)   Subject: Re: SMTP Authentication+ Message-ID: <am86bv$rd2$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>i  \ In article <3D8698A7.320C7C2F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >David Webb wrote:O >> Note. This has to be done at the mail client rather than being something the  >> TCPIP stack (UCX) can do. >- >Why ? > L >Why not define a username/password for the SMTP server when it communicates >with its gateway ?a >C  H Because no SMTP server has been designed with that functionality in mindK which is because that is not what SMTP AUTH was designed for. SMTP AUTH waseM designed to allow the user of a mail client to authenticate their identity toaJ the SMTP server they are sending mail out through by adding extra commandsN and responses into the dialogue between the client and the server's mail port.M It was not designed to allow a mail server to identify itself to another mail2J server. I'm not quite sure what extra identification over and above the IP5 number of the servers involved you would want anyway.@    M >After all, it is the SMTP server which talks to the remote SMTP and the usertM >has no interaction at all. It is therefore up to the SMTP server to identifyn >itself to the remote one.  J Are you talking SMTP server to local central mailhub here or do you really5 mean to remote SMTP server ie anywhere in the world ?E  K If you are talking about communicating with the local central mailhub then fJ (assuming the server software could be rewritten) it might be possible to M force the local SMTP server to act as though it were an SMTP AUTH client and  I send the username and password. Why you would want to do this is another s
 question ?      P If on the otherhand you are talking about communicating with remote SMTP serversG which could be anywhere in the world then this is obviously going to becN impossible. Your local SMTP server would need a username and password which isF valid for every remote SMTP server it ever wished to communicate with.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:44:01 -0500i) From: Questions Dude <reply@newsgoup.com>t# Subject: So help me understand her.r, Message-ID: <3D87F681.3F13EBE1@newsgoup.com>  G Okay, first I just came accross VMS like three days ago and was messing 7 around w/ the system but I can't get past a few things.r  G 1) Everyone says its dead and yet still this group is active, I've seenuG some universities that still have help documents on it etc.  What's thenC deal?  With all the talk of VMS being dead because of the Compaq/HPeG merger it sure as hell looks alive to me.  I mean they are even portingnG it to the new Itanium chips.  Since original was 64 bit alpha this shit9F sould be natural.  They are coming out w/ newer versions of this thing off an on.  What gives?e  G 2) What kind of systems are you people running on your VMS on?  All themF pictures I see are of cabinet size machines with magnetic tapes on allG of them in like 70's style casing.  I doubt you ppl still use those!  IhD mean processors speeds, RAM, disk space etc.  Are they blade servers etc?  D 3)  The damn thing has everything ported to it right?  I mean ORACLE@ runs on it?  You got a graphical user interface etc.  So tell meG honestly why does it fall short of other systems.  Why wouldn't you usek@ VMS to say run a website or run a mail server, print server etc.  A 4)  What about programming?  I just compiled some C code and somenH FORTRAN 90 stuff and it seemed to work fine for me.  Why aren't the sameF applications available for VMS that are written in those languages forA other OS.  C is standard.  Java is standard(yea, yea, I read somesF threads where ppl are complaining that the java compiler is written in= java and too slow but, what about now?  Its still like that?)w  E 5)  I only hear talk of memory swapping and tight security etc.  What A good is any of this stuff to anyone?  I mean does the health caretB industry, auto industry, military, educational institutions, dairyH industry, or any other businesses rely on VMS?  What can it be best usedD for.  Like Bio-technology since its super fast on 64-bit processors?  H   I just have a user account on some guy's machine but man this thing isF interesting to me.  I mean I've worked on *nix stuff and also PC stuffH but I never knew other kinds of stuff was still around.  I'm really intoF this thing.  I can't do a lick of advanced stuff on it.  I do edit/tpuE and junk and just send mail etc.  I just want to get a feel for DCL. e3 Can any of you recommend some cool projects for me.d  D I'm a computer engineering student and I was just messing around andH this guy offered me an account to learn the OS.  I really want to dig inG but I have no clue what to do on there.  I don't mean to sound ignorantn9 nor do I want to sound like a troll but I'm just curious.w   T.I.A.   QD   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:45:36 -0500i) From: Questions Dude <reply@newsgoup.com>b( Subject: Re: So help me understand herE., Message-ID: <3D87F6E0.CCD4F618@newsgoup.com>  H don't help me understand "her."  I meant to write "understand here" withH an "E"  Of course, if you consider VMS your little hot trophy wife, then help me understand "her"  :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:50:06 +0200n) From: labadie <labadie.gerard@wanadoo.fr> " Subject: Re: SRM Console Variables( Message-ID: <3D87795E.AB8359@wanadoo.fr>   Phillip Helbig wrote:o  ; > > Is there a way to get and set the SRM Console variablesa9 > > as does Tru64?  For example, on Tru64.  It would also 1 > > be useful to get the firmware version number.  >m- > F$GETENV.  Don't see F$SETENV, though.  :-|  >n> >          The defined console environment variable names are: >cE >          Auto_action, Boot_dev, Bootdef_dev, Booted_dev, Boot_file, K >          Booted_file, Boot_osflags, Booted_osflags, Boot_reset, Dump_dev,h= >          Enable_audit, License, Char_set, Language, Tty_devl   Hellod  M f$setenv is not documented and works on a limited number of items, among themeG auto_action, but some serious testing is required if you do not want toi crash.   Regardse   Grard   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 14:52:35 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)h Subject: Re: Sybase and VMSi3 Message-ID: <7pfmrB1k+rRV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <fWHh9.48382$8b1.11527@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > : > "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:M6w87HckHPtd@eisner.encompasserve.org...l? >> In article <878z23a28o.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholio! > <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:-G >> > "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> writes:m >> >1 >> >> I hear that sybase and VMS isn't supported.R >> > >> >> anyone know if it works? >> >@ >> > Well, if you look back, you may remember Boeing looking forH >> > VMS/Sybase people to go to Geralton. Security clearance required... >> >4 >> > So I think we can put a tick next to `works' :) >> > >>A >> I forgot to mention that when I sat next to a Sybase fellow onRC >> the flight from New Jersey to Oakland he mentioned that they had : >> some "big customers" that insisted on VMS 7.3+ support.B >> I inferred from the tone of the conversation that it meant thatB >> those that had support, and were big enough, still got support. > K > It's nice to be big enough to get support 'under the table'. But when thenI > ISV doesn't offer to the customer base at-large an officially supportedeG > version on VMS, it's just one more reason anyone who champions VMS atg0 > prospective new customers may get shot down...  ? I'm quite aware of the consequences of the at-large perception.e9 Rather than start another "VMS marketing should not be ant< oxymoron" thread, I'll just let you know what happened here.  @ We used to have the majority of our data center needs taken care> of by VMS systems.  One of the reasons that our shop went from9 VMS to Solaris is when Sybase dropped VMS support for newlA versions.  That, coupled with the lack of VMS talent, and a largey? pool of recent grads that "knew unix", made the continuation ofr? VMS for our day to day stuff hard to justify.  We still use VMS @ for our stock market matching systems, but that is a niche where) the VMS feature set is a very good match.3  = I guess the implied point of my original post was that if the:@ perception was that there were a viable VMS market, Sybase couldA probably have a version available in a reasonably short time.  Itn= boils down to the basic economics of software development and.@ support.  If it is going to cost $500k in engineering, marketingA and support to sell $50k on a platform, it is probably not in theeA best interest of the company to consider that platform.  (Caveat:e@ those numbers were picked from thin air, and don't represent any real life development data.)  ; This is where HP could make the difference by marketing andl> agressively promoting VMS, and then subsidizing ISVs to do theA same.  No Enron/Worldcom style accounting need be used to realizeC that return on investment.   > I've seen this happen:M > "Fred, why do you insist on VMS? Your choice of db is Oracle or Oracle Rdb,mL > and we don't like Oracle in this shop. You obviously aren't a team player.J > Here's your pink slip. Security will escort you from the building. We'll8 > send your personal belongings to your house tomorrow." > / > A case of the sqeaky wheel getting 'greased'.,  @ Yes, I've spent a large amount of effort finding the right levelA of squeaky-ness.  I often recommend solutions to problems we haveU9 with VMS solutions, but I don't squeak so much that I get  greased.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:09:05 +0200o@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> Subject: Re: Sybase and VMSt+ Message-ID: <3D8799F1.9060105@mail.tele.dk>n   Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > Marty Kuhrt wrote:B >>We used to have the majority of our data center needs taken care@ >>of by VMS systems.  One of the reasons that our shop went from; >>VMS to Solaris is when Sybase dropped VMS support for newBC >>versions.  That, coupled with the lack of VMS talent, and a large-A >>pool of recent grads that "knew unix", made the continuation of A >>VMS for our day to day stuff hard to justify.  We still use VMSNB >>for our stock market matching systems, but that is a niche where+ >>the VMS feature set is a very good match.a >> >  6L > hmm, if I get a job in a Windows shop will they port to VMS because I only > know VMS or what? :-)o > M > I'm not knocking Marty, but surely if you are using VMS and there is a lacknO > of talent then you train those "only know unix" grads on VMS. Surely a betteruQ > attitude would be "What, you only know unix and are not prepared to learn VMS, b > where is that pink slip?"r  5 The bosses do take notice, if all new employees needsa training in VMS.  6 And then when the slick SUN sales guy enters and start talking, then ...n   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:47:16 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: Sybase and VMS.0 Message-ID: <3D879316.F27853D3@blueyonder.co.uk>   Marty Kuhrt wrote: > B > We used to have the majority of our data center needs taken care@ > of by VMS systems.  One of the reasons that our shop went from; > VMS to Solaris is when Sybase dropped VMS support for newaC > versions.  That, coupled with the lack of VMS talent, and a large"A > pool of recent grads that "knew unix", made the continuation oftA > VMS for our day to day stuff hard to justify.  We still use VMSsB > for our stock market matching systems, but that is a niche where+ > the VMS feature set is a very good match.   >J hmm, if I get a job in a Windows shop will they port to VMS because I only know VMS or what? :-)m  K I'm not knocking Marty, but surely if you are using VMS and there is a lackaM of talent then you train those "only know unix" grads on VMS. Surely a betteriO attitude would be "What, you only know unix and are not prepared to learn VMS, h where is that pink slip?"   K Agreed the Sysbase stuff is nasty. However, the lack of talent thing surelyh5 only applies if you've given up on VMS really anyway.y   -- u tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk e  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 02:21:50 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>g Subject: Re: Sybase and VMSiG Message-ID: <2rRh9.68151$U_.40782@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>l  8 "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:7pfmrB1k+rRV@eisner.encompasserve.org...a >yA > I'm quite aware of the consequences of the at-large perception. ; > Rather than start another "VMS marketing should not be anh> > oxymoron" thread, I'll just let you know what happened here. >hB > We used to have the majority of our data center needs taken care@ > of by VMS systems.  One of the reasons that our shop went from; > VMS to Solaris is when Sybase dropped VMS support for new C > versions.  That, coupled with the lack of VMS talent, and a large A > pool of recent grads that "knew unix", made the continuation ofdA > VMS for our day to day stuff hard to justify.  We still use VMS,B > for our stock market matching systems, but that is a niche where+ > the VMS feature set is a very good match.e >e? > I guess the implied point of my original post was that if theiB > perception was that there were a viable VMS market, Sybase couldC > probably have a version available in a reasonably short time.  It ? > boils down to the basic economics of software development andiB > support.  If it is going to cost $500k in engineering, marketingC > and support to sell $50k on a platform, it is probably not in theoC > best interest of the company to consider that platform.  (Caveat:tB > those numbers were picked from thin air, and don't represent any > real life development data.) >u= > This is where HP could make the difference by marketing andr@ > agressively promoting VMS, and then subsidizing ISVs to do theC > same.  No Enron/Worldcom style accounting need be used to realizel > that return on investment.    F We, in this forum, can lament all we want about this but it is HP that controls the marketing.b  I If HP were truly serious, Carly would sit down to lunch with John Chen ofnG Sybase, and get something going. Joint press release...they could do it 9 tomorrow if John was convinced that Carly meant business.e  & Same goes for hundreds of other ISV's.       > > I've seen this happen:J > > "Fred, why do you insist on VMS? Your choice of db is Oracle or Oracle Rdb,F > > and we don't like Oracle in this shop. You obviously aren't a team player.lL > > Here's your pink slip. Security will escort you from the building. We'll: > > send your personal belongings to your house tomorrow." > >s1 > > A case of the sqeaky wheel getting 'greased'.n > B > Yes, I've spent a large amount of effort finding the right levelC > of squeaky-ness.  I often recommend solutions to problems we have ; > with VMS solutions, but I don't squeak so much that I getr
 > greased.  3 A full stomach is usually better than an empty one.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 02:16:23 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>m Subject: Re: Sybase and VMSeG Message-ID: <XlRh9.67385$U_.17805@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>l  A "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in messageo* news:3D879316.F27853D3@blueyonder.co.uk... >g >, > Marty Kuhrt wrote: > >HD > > We used to have the majority of our data center needs taken careB > > of by VMS systems.  One of the reasons that our shop went from= > > VMS to Solaris is when Sybase dropped VMS support for newdE > > versions.  That, coupled with the lack of VMS talent, and a largeiC > > pool of recent grads that "knew unix", made the continuation of C > > VMS for our day to day stuff hard to justify.  We still use VMShD > > for our stock market matching systems, but that is a niche where- > > the VMS feature set is a very good match.y > L > hmm, if I get a job in a Windows shop will they port to VMS because I only > know VMS or what? :-)t >eH > I'm not knocking Marty, but surely if you are using VMS and there is a lackH > of talent then you train those "only know unix" grads on VMS. Surely a betterK > attitude would be "What, you only know unix and are not prepared to learnM VMS, > where is that pink slip?"3 >DF > Agreed the Sysbase stuff is nasty. However, the lack of talent thing surely7 > only applies if you've given up on VMS really anyway.,    H Unfortunately there is a limit on what senior management will support in 'training' their staff.   F Most execs in non-IT roles expect that your average newly minted BS inH computer science has all the technical skills he needs and that all they# need to do is 'learn the business'.   G Most senior IT execs won't stick their necks on the line to insist that I VMS-specific training be given to their newly hired staff, and if they doaD get budget approval, it will be at the expense of a lot of political capital.  J The senior non-IT execs will meet with their counterparts at golf courses,K tennis finals, basketball games, and may possibly ask, "Ever hear of VMS?", J and the answer will be "NO". So the senior non-IT exec comes back the nextI day and hauls the head IT guy on the carpet and verbally abuses him abouto VMS. Seen it happen.  F Mind you, I've also seen shops that have gone from OS/2 and M$ to unixI without training their staff other than a 1 week "Here are the basic unixPH commands. Use the man pages for the details." at the same time while theL staff taking the course are on production support......as seen at one of the@ largest brokerage firms in the world, and at a few other places.  I Hell, I've seen StorageWorks arrays dismissed from the running in storage9@ RFP's just because they said Digital/Compaq on the front..."NiceH boxes...we'd have bought them if anybody else owned it, because we don'tJ trust Digital/Compaq." Seen that a few times too...same reasons each time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:13:12 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: Symposium Sessions>+ Message-ID: <3D8770B5.30995E5@videotron.ca>n   Hoff Hoffman wrote:sJ >   (well, to me, at least) rejected by the symposium folks -- that was toG >   be entitled "OpenVMS Freeware, an Insider's View of Open Source", aeE >   session on using and on porting open-source code over to OpenVMS.i  I Could you not make such a presentation during the "real" VMS symbosium intM Nashua ? As far as I am concerned, DECUS (or whatever name it has today) has,a' to some extent, made itself irrelevant.   M In the past, it wanted to diversify itself since VMS was no longer generatingiL sufficient interest to sustain its large symbosiums etc. So it included Unix
 and Windows.    L Unfortunatly, Tru64 is dying, and HP's own Interex probably has wintel stuffN as well as having the "real" unix stuff for HP-UX. So I would not say that theD future is very bright for DECUS (or whatever its name is this week).  G Sue's  VMS symposium comes at a great time and gives us hope after all.a  L When I was participating in the organisation of DECUS symposia in Canada, weK were begging for every engineer we could get and every session we could geteL from engineers. I am frankly quite surprised to see the US organisation turn down an engineer.f   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:43:02 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Symposium SessionsdA Message-ID: <WIKh9.98263$z91.3748539@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>d  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3D8770B5.30995E5@videotron.ca...    ...J  F > As far as I am concerned, DECUS (or whatever name it has today) has,) > to some extent, made itself irrelevant.   L Becoming a blatant extension of Compaq PR after the Alphacide (to the extentL of voicing the support of its membership without having bothered to ask themJ about it) certainly didn't help.  Makes one wonder what a "users' society"L is supposed to be all about:  perhaps they just bought into the "What's good7 for General Motors is good for the country" philosophy.s   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:59:04 -0500d7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com>d Subject: Re: Symposium Sessions-G Message-ID: <craigberry-7F171E.21590317092002@news.directvinternet.com>i  * In article <am552u$m28$2@web1.cup.hp.com>,4  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:  K >   I expect to be presenting various sessions likely including a session  s <snip> >   that was toBG >   be entitled "OpenVMS Freeware, an Insider's View of Open Source", agF >   session on using and on porting open-source code over to OpenVMS.   F Assuming the open source presentation is not what resulted in the NDA C for the symposium :-) . . .  I'd be very much interested in seeing f1 these materials publicly available at some point.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:43:34 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>e; Subject: Re: System service call to know the number of CPUsu2 Message-ID: <OiOHPfFSgTlrmRttf3YWMv7ISOJR@4ax.com>  . How about either F$Getsyi( "AVAILCPU_CNT" ) or F$Getsyi( "ACTIVECPU_CNT" )?   David R. Beattys  7 On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:17:01 +0530, "Sandeep Yelwatkar"e" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote:   >Hi, >sJ >Given the name of system is there any system service call available which/ >would return the number of CPUs on the system.y >e >Thanks in advance >Sandeep >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:28:04 -0400 ( From: "David M Smith" <dsmit115@csc.com>; Subject: Re: System service call to know the number of CPUst' Message-ID: <am7l6o$l1m$1@lore.csc.com>n  @ "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message) news:uoef30j9c7n574@corp.supernews.com...l >  >-K > I have written the following program to get the CPU count but I am unableH to9 > figure out what went wrong  Can you please help me out.i >o [snip]  H It would have been helpful to tell us the return status you got from theL system service. When I compiled it on our system, and checked the status, it corresponded to "no such node".n  L The node name is passed by descriptor. Here is a draft which works better...  J /* This program returns the number of CPUs on a node in the clsuter system */   #include <descrip.h> #include <stdio.h> #include <ssdef.h> #include <syidef.h>@   typedef struct {c     short length, type;m     void *buffer, *return_len; } TTlist_item;  
 int main() {n     long status;     long cpu_count;a     short  return_len;     TTlist_item AAitem_list[2];t)     $DESCRIPTOR (node_name_dsc,"NDCVX1");e       AAitem_list[0].length = 4;,     AAitem_list[0].type = SYI$_AVAILCPU_CNT;'     AAitem_list[0].buffer = &cpu_count;u,     AAitem_list[0].return_len = &return_len;       AAitem_list[1].length = 0;     AAitem_list[1].type = 0;  E     status = sys$getsyiw(0, 0, &node_name_dsc, AAitem_list, 0, 0, 0);r  :     if (status & 1) printf("cpu_count = %d\n", cpu_count);     else printf("error\n");s
     return 0;  }n   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 12:31:33 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org; Subject: Re: System service call to know the number of CPUsO3 Message-ID: <hZI8+E8SRTzQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>D  g In article <uoef30j9c7n574@corp.supernews.com>, "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> writes:e >  > N > I have written the following program to get the CPU count but I am unable to9 > figure out what went wrong  Can you please help me out.%  < Check the parameter passing mode for the node name argument.       nodename  !        OpenVMS usage:process_namel0        type:         character-coded text string        access:       read onlyD        mechanism:    by 32- or 64-bit descriptor-fixed-length string'                      descriptor (Alpha) H        mechanism:    by 32-bit descriptor-fixed-length string descriptor                      (VAX)E        Name of the node about which $GETSYI is to return information.sC        The nodename argument is the 32-bit address (on VAX systems)iE        or the 32- or 64-bit address (on Alpha systems) of a character 6        string descriptor pointing to this name string.      05 You're passing a null terminated string by reference..  . VMS wants a fixed length string by descriptor.  > If you're after information for the current node, you can justB omit the parameter and pass a zero by value.  Otherwise, you would be well served to:   #include <descrip.h>   and replace    	char *node_name = "OAKVMS";   with  % 	$DESCRIPTOR ( node_name, "OAKVMS" );    and   = 	status = sys$getsyiw(0, 0, node_name, AAitem_list, 0, 0, 0);l   with  > 	status = sys$getsyiw(0, 0, &node_name, AAitem_list, 0, 0, 0);    F You could also get extra style points for providing better diagnosticsF when your status checks fail.  For instance, doing SYS$EXIT ( status )< would have told you a hint that your program is failing on a& %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation ...  C If you are doing cross-node queries then the IOSB parameter is also B important.  You want to know not only that your request was queuedA successfully but that it also completed successfully.  Allocating F an 8 byte IOSB bit and checking at least the low order bit for success is highly desireable.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:51:53 +0100:! From: John Laird <john@yrl.co.uk>. Subject: Re: sysuaf and friendsH8 Message-ID: <vs4fou8o6nat6oieibrmrli31t5b9qbrik@4ax.com>  1 On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:32:06 +1000, Paddy O'Brieno$ <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote:   >(copying locked files)l >aA >I tried a copy before renaming the logicals.  NET$PROXY.DAT and cI >QMAN$MASTER.DAT are locked by other users; all the rest copy O.K. to my   >Alpha disk. >uI >In order to maintain the same environment before I rename logicals, how w >do I get these files copied?c  E BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK or at a pinch CONVERT/SHARE.  BACKUP would be.G recommended.  As you have very few users, it should not be difficult tomL ensure that NCP or QUEMAN activity is battened down to avoid the possibilityJ of catching a partial update.  Neither file should be too huge so the risk is minimal.t  G >For the latter I tried shutting down the queue manager on both nodes,  8 >but it still would not copy -- still locked (by what?).   SHO DEV/FILE <device> ?   F >I am on DECnet Phase IV.  If I change to DECnet-Plus I believe I can F >"tunnel" through TCP/IP (to keep our IT section happy -- they have a G >vendetta against VMS and want nothing to do with any DEC product -- I l+ >do!!!!).  Can I cluster using TCP/IP only?s  L Are you suffering at the hands of "no protocols we don't like will appear onH OUR network" thinking ?  I've known of many so-called sysadmins who haveK refused to bridge or route DEC traffic, but I would have though this shouldrD not be a problem with two nodes where you presumably would have themH installed on the same segment ?  I doubt such clueless morons would evenL have the sense to notice non-approved protocols anyway.  What does it matterF how two machines on a local segment talk to one another provided theirJ conversations are not leaking out (does anyone install wide open repeaters any more) ?c  I Clustering does not need Decnet, as Phillip pointed out, but it will talkg; SCS over your network interconnect anyway.  Also verboten ?r     	Johnf   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:29:01 GMTa! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nzs Subject: Re: sysuaf and friendst% Message-ID: <3d87c6e8.597061138@news>n  E For the Queue Manager files you may want to consider closing down theo) Queue Manager and then copying the files.    You may also need to do a / Start/queue/manager /on=(nodeA) device:[direct] 4 to get the Queue Manager to reference the new files.  B As others have mentioned, using backup/ignore=interlock at a quiet+ time will allow the uaf files to be copied.7  D JOB_CONTROL will have the Queue Manager files open, not sure if thisB gets closed down when the Queue Manager is stopped. I suspect not.  . I'll leave the DECNet stuff to other postings.    1 On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:32:06 +1000, Paddy O'Brienc$ <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote:  G >Note, I am a Fortran developer of our technical applications.  My VMS eJ >admin role is because we are independent of our IT and I am the only one C >here able to keep our production engineers gainfully employed.  A mA >paraphrase of this, I might not understand first time round the   >solutions I am offered. >-H >For historical reasons, when we had a larger development team prior to C >attrition, I started with a VAXstation 4000-60 and 3 VLC's as our  G >development platform.  [Others might have gone through the same -- we  + >now have two of us doing the work of 6/8.]  > H >We gradually moved our development to an Alpha box which was clustered H >in.  The VAX still had SYSUAF and friends.  Our production environment , >has for many years been Alpha (Fortran 90). >:E >I am now down to a cluster of a single VAXstation 4000-60 and a DEC -; >3000.  And I want to move SYSUAF and friends to the Alpha.0 >SA >I tried a copy before renaming the logicals.  NET$PROXY.DAT and DI >QMAN$MASTER.DAT are locked by other users; all the rest copy O.K. to my c >Alpha disk. > I >In order to maintain the same environment before I rename logicals, how o >do I get these files copied?  >eG >For the latter I tried shutting down the queue manager on both nodes, e8 >but it still would not copy -- still locked (by what?). >MF >Am I in a stable situation if I create these two files from a backup . >onto the Alpha disk from the VAX disk backup? >  >A second question.c > F >I am on DECnet Phase IV.  If I change to DECnet-Plus I believe I can F >"tunnel" through TCP/IP (to keep our IT section happy -- they have a G >vendetta against VMS and want nothing to do with any DEC product -- I s+ >do!!!!).  Can I cluster using TCP/IP only?f >l >Regards, Paddyc >u >y >n >nH >*********************************************************************** > D >"This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged? >and confidential information intended only for the use of the  C >addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of  D >this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseC >the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, :8 >distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited. > B >If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid B >immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the > >individual sender except where the sender expressly and with D >authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses? >virus scanning software but excludes any liability for virusesh >contained in any attachment." >nH >*********************************************************************** >S   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 19:27:36 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: sysuaf and friendst= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0209171827.2b910a98@posting.google.com>m  a John Laird <john@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message news:<vs4fou8o6nat6oieibrmrli31t5b9qbrik@4ax.com>...i3 > On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:32:06 +1000, Paddy O'Brieni& > <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote: >  > >(copying locked files)j > >oC > >I tried a copy before renaming the logicals.  NET$PROXY.DAT and  K > >QMAN$MASTER.DAT are locked by other users; all the rest copy O.K. to my w > >Alpha disk. > >:K > >In order to maintain the same environment before I rename logicals, how   > >do I get these files copied?6 > G > BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK or at a pinch CONVERT/SHARE.  BACKUP would beAI > recommended.  As you have very few users, it should not be difficult toiN > ensure that NCP or QUEMAN activity is battened down to avoid the possibilityL > of catching a partial update.  Neither file should be too huge so the risk
 > is minimal.c    9 The manual says you can backup the queue system files via-C CONVERT/SHARE. See the System Manger's Manual, Saving and Restoring2 the Queue Database.b  > Perhaps the same would work with NET$PROXY.DAY? I don't know.    > I > >For the latter I tried shutting down the queue manager on both nodes, i: > >but it still would not copy -- still locked (by what?). >  > SHO DEV/FILE <device> ?l > H > >I am on DECnet Phase IV.  If I change to DECnet-Plus I believe I can H > >"tunnel" through TCP/IP (to keep our IT section happy -- they have a I > >vendetta against VMS and want nothing to do with any DEC product -- I e- > >do!!!!).  Can I cluster using TCP/IP only?s    F We have TCPWARE and are running DECnet phase IV at my sight and we use' DECnet over IP tunnels. They work fine.a   [...]t   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:53:47 +0200n% From: "TFranco" <TFranco@nowhere.com>t Subject: tcpip client PAKw7 Message-ID: <am7mj2$1lh$1@server-b.cs.interbusiness.it>    Hi all,m  K after installing ovms72 from the Hobbyst CD, I decided to setup TCPIP, so IP: did a PRODUCT INSTALL of the tcpip PCSI present on the CD.H During the setup it stated that a TCPIP CLIENT PAK is needed in order toG configure FTPD and TELNET servers, but I've already loaded the UCX PAK. D I could bring up the tcpip but I couldn't set-up the above mentioned	 services.c/ What else do I need, or what have I forgotten ?o Thanks in advance.   --
 ... Franco   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:30:13 +0200u% From: "TFranco" <TFranco@nowhere.com>  Subject: Re: tcpip client PAK 7 Message-ID: <am7ond$3cb$1@server-b.cs.interbusiness.it>h  
 No, I didn't,A Thank you very much Tim, I'll try tonite. Cheers.      > Did you $ LICENCE LOAD UCX ? > J > I went through this a couple of weeks ago. I have TCPIP 5.1 running fine > on my hobbiest system. >  >l
 > regards, >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:53:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> / Subject: TCPIP: BIND server forwarders questions, Message-ID: <3D8806AC.FC715514@videotron.ca>  G I have my lan's BIND server set to be forwarder to my ISP's various DNS- servers ( 4 of them).1      N So, when a client on my lan asks my VAX to resolve a name which my VAX doesn'tK have in its database or cache, the VAX asks a host on the forwarder's list.  Right ?u  : Does it always ask the first host on the list of servers ?K How long does it wait before deciding that the dns server is not respondingdA and trying the next one ? (is that a parameter that can be set ?)e  B If I only had a single DNS on the forwarders list and that DNS wasK unresponsive, would the server then use the ROOT.HINTS file and then try toe resolve the request itself ?  L (I am thinking in terms of: if my ISP is having problems, is there much of aG point of having 4 failed DNS servers in the list before the BIND servers: decides to go to the ROOT.HINTS mechanism to resilve it ?)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:01:09 GMTa# From: "mhr" <mreilly36@comcast.net>e7 Subject: Re: The cd record package from HP/CPQ + DVD???oB Message-ID: <9nPh9.110929$5r1.4226007@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  J I have recently purchased the DVDWRITE program and it works great-both DVDG and CDR as well as CDR/W . Easy to use, quick and (so far) no coasters!  mhrfH "Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann" <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote in@ message news:00A141F8.BE74632E.1@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE... > Hi,t >rK > Some weeks ago (2002-08-15) I asked some questions about the CD recordingn package,3 > that HP/CPQ offers as an option for the new DS45:' >h$ > 1. What program comes with a DS25?* > 2. Is it cdrecord or a modified cdwrite?" > 3. Is the source code available?& > 4. Which DVD+R(W) drive can be used? > H > I've got no answer upto now and I have the impression that the postingF > of Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman stopped all orders of my dvdwrite-program,- > especially because he spoke of DVD-burning:  >o > [snip] >tG >  Various SCSI-based CD-R drives have been found to work.  Donno aboutrL >    ATA/ATAPI or USB CD-R, I haven't tried that.  (We burned some DVD disksJ >    using the HP drive and CDWRITE a week or so ago.  Worked on the firstK >    shot.)  I've been using the Plextor PlexWriter series SCSI CD-R drivesyE >    (both the 12/10/xx and 12/4/xx) on OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alphad systems.J >    Works fine.  I'm sure that other modern CD-R devices will also work." >  > [snip] >n > H > Since 2002-09-17 you'll find the "CD record" in the Open Source Tools.( > ( http://www.openvms.compaq.com/new ). >oL > The saveset consists of the Cdrecord Version 1.10, released at 2001-04-22.B > This version cannot be used for DVD-R(W) recording. AdditionallyH > cdrecord is used without the burnproof option. This is almost a secure method= > to produce coasters. cdrecord.com only knows about CD-R andr > doesn't handle CD-RW.u >lK > But who cares, it is "Freeware" without any warranty. You'll only destroy-& > the good reputation of some authors. >0
 > Eberhard >sL ============================================================================ ===- >  > Dr. Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann> > Univ. Konstanz > Fakultaet fuer Chemiet > Universitaets-Strasse 10 > D-78464 Konstanz	 > Germany 0 > Phone: +49-7531-88-2026, FAX: +49-7531-88-3139, > email: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de >- >-L ============================================================================ ===a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:03:25 +0100w' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy " Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!/ Message-ID: <am75pi$vn$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>x   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > Yikes!  SUNW is at $2.90 at around 11:30 AM ET, which is about a dime or sonL > under book value for the company, and brings the market cap down to around > $10b.  > < > Is there news behind this drop towards penny stock status? >  >   8 Freddy boy for a person who recently claimed that he had4 far too much to do to keep up a constant flow of FUD4 about Sun you seem to spend an inordinate ammount of( time following our the SUNW stock price.  2 Is there more to your job than the simple engineer& that you like to pass yourself off as.   Regardst Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:23:17 -04005- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!, Message-ID: <3D877311.FE646B5E@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:: > Freddy boy for a person who recently claimed that he had6 > far too much to do to keep up a constant flow of FUD6 > about Sun you seem to spend an inordinate ammount of* > time following our the SUNW stock price.  L Andrew, you have to admit that Sun's stock price has fallen significantly inM recent times. It wasn't long ago that Terry Shannon was joking that its stock>M might hit $4.00 on its way down, and while it is now around $3.00 it was wellf below $3.00 in recent days.i  M I personally do not associate the stock price with quality of products etc. IoH think it is more a function or corporate PR and how accountants can spin numbers.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:01:54 GMTx5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> " Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!2 Message-ID: <6eJh9.32$ea4.617489@news.cpqcorp.net>  6 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >h >i >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:aK >> Yikes!  SUNW is at $2.90 at around 11:30 AM ET, which is about a dime or  soF >> under book value for the company, and brings the market cap down to around >> $10b. >>= >> Is there news behind this drop towards penny stock status?s >> >> >r9 >Freddy boy for a person who recently claimed that he hadm5 >far too much to do to keep up a constant flow of FUDe5 >about Sun you seem to spend an inordinate ammount of ) >time following our the SUNW stock price.x >r3 >Is there more to your job than the simple engineer.' >that you like to pass yourself off as.a >c  > Still childishly trying to goad me by calling me "Freddy Boy"?  K A web page I use shows tech stocks.  As I do own stock and have a 401K withlH stock investments, it seems reasonable.  The Sun stock price happened toL jump out at me... but I don't follow Sun closely enough to know if there was* some news that was driving the price down.  L I do pretend to be a engineer here at work, and that's what they pay me for.C I'm sure that a number of people will agree that I'm pretty simple.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:52:34 GMTM1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>i" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!+ Message-ID: <6KLh9.7805$L12.2277@sccrnsc02>w  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D877311.FE646B5E@videotron.ca...* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:< > > Freddy boy for a person who recently claimed that he had8 > > far too much to do to keep up a constant flow of FUD8 > > about Sun you seem to spend an inordinate ammount of, > > time following our the SUNW stock price. >tK > Andrew, you have to admit that Sun's stock price has fallen significantlye inI > recent times. It wasn't long ago that Terry Shannon was joking that itsi stocknJ > might hit $4.00 on its way down, and while it is now around $3.00 it was well > below $3.00 in recent days.  > H > I personally do not associate the stock price with quality of products etc. IJ > think it is more a function or corporate PR and how accountants can spin
 > numbers.  I Probably so. Sun is right now at $3.05. I might have paid closer to $4.00' for the ten shares I picked up.a  > Meanwhile HPQ is $13.38, which is nothing to write home about.  L EMC's at $5.80, which makes me wonder if Dell will make a run on them, or if0 HPQ will/can do the same thing to pre-empt Dell.  L The stock market is indeed a weird thing! Sun at three bucks seems like justL the ticket for the aggressive investor. It's not as if they are gonna dry up and blow away....9   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:57:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast!+ Message-ID: <3D879744.BA620C4@videotron.ca>r   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:S@ > Meanwhile HPQ is $13.38, which is nothing to write home about.  K HP seems to have stabilized around the $14.00 level (+- $1.00) . For now at, least.    L I think that SUN may still have too much an association with the telcos, andJ those are still being battered so perhaps Sun's stock is being pulled down* with the Nortels, Lucent etc of the world.  N > The stock market is indeed a weird thing! Sun at three bucks seems like justN > the ticket for the aggressive investor. It's not as if they are gonna dry up > and blow away....r  N Perhaps Sun and Apple could merge. Other than that, I don't think any other USF computer firm could buy Sun without much anti-trust problems.  Perhaps! japanese companies might buy Sun.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 02:13:25 GMTd From: schiffkey@cfl.rr.com5 Subject: wanted: cobol vax/vms ingres programming jobk6 Message-ID: <3d87e10e.16936974@news-server.cfl.rr.com>   yeap.    i'm still looking for work.     does anyone still use cobol/vax?
 and where?  " anyhow, email schiffkey@cfl.rr.com  8 and tell me all about an open and available situation...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:16:34 -0400 * From: Brian Hechinger <wonko@4amlunch.net>2 Subject: what drive does an RV02K WORK disk go in?8 Message-ID: <20020917181634.R163079@marvin.4amlunch.net>  I and does anyone know where i could get one?  i need to get data off of an  RV02K pak, but lack the drive.   thanks!!   -brian -- o@ Don't get too bent out of shape, for half the world, Calculus isJ incomprehensible until they learn the epsilon-delta proof.  After learningJ the epsilon-delta proof, it's incomprehensible for most of the other half.J                                                        -- George Adkins --   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Sep 2002 09:51:17 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)uU Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on   OpenVMS?r3 Message-ID: <XEyKfN3grm06@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  b In article <3d8728dd$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:: >>Since MAXBOB* is obsolete 7.3 and up, add a /FAST switchA >>to COPY so that it does a callout to Bob Sampson's FAST_IO_COPYV >>M >>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6ajqur%24nl3%40usenet.pa.dec.com&oe=UTr > F-8&output=gplaino > F > Message id or article number 6ajqur$nl3@usenet.pa.dec.com not found.  > 	You made some sort of mistake as that article is still there.8 	The url is wrapped.  I cut and pasted both sections and 	it works for me.g  & 	No matter.  You can grab it this way:   	groups.google.com search for:   	hein sampson fast_io_copy 	S& 	and click on the first link you find.   				Rob'    B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonderfG Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstreamp> The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  -                                 -- Neil Youngg   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:44:29 GMTy( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>Y Subject: Re: What features/capabilities would you like to see available on OpenVMS? OpenV + Message-ID: <3D876ABA.D276C22C@pacbell.net>l   Rudolf Wingert wrote:p >  > Hello, > E > if you will have a problem with the use of the (may be a little bit B > too long names) logical SYS$INPUT and SYS$OUPT, why don't you do > the following: > ' >         $  grep == "SEARCH SYS$INPUT"n4 >         $  more == "TYPE/PAGE=SAVE=1000 SYS$INPUT"% >         $  get  == "READ SYS$INPUT"  > E > So you can do the same as in *IX, e.g. PIPE DIR | GREP HUGO | MORE.a, > I think this will be fit 90% of your work.( > I do have a problem with the follwing: > D >         $ PIPE DIR | GREP HUGO || SAY "HUGO is present"         or= >         $ PIPE DIR | GREP HUGO && SAY "HUGO is not present"r > H > If I do so, DCL waits for something and the command does never finish.C > The second problem is, how is it possible to do both in one line..N > $ PIPE DIR | GREP HUGO || SAY "HUGO is present" && SAY "HUGO is not present"H > My expirience is, that this does not function. Also should it possible& > to pass symbols throw the PIPE, e.g. > , >         $ PIPE DIR | GREP HUGO | GET ^line, >         $ SAY "HUGO found in line ''line'" >  > Best regards Rudolf Wingerte  M Actually, that's not bad. I don't know why that didn't occur to me right off.dO And it works for most of the simple things I was talking about...go to the headt
 of the class. , Just goes to remind me how wonderful DCL is!   --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)e
 San Franciscol   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:56:27 GMT ! From: "Derigible" <none@none.com>r/ Subject: Re: www.openvms.com is available ! ! ! ? Message-ID: <%DFh9.342172$_91.441185@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>m  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message : news:20020917114810.43883.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com...7 > I think the site www.openvms.com is available because-5 > it is not working since last weeked - as I tried toe- > connect on saturday... Anyone interested to:  I I own it and it's stall valid - but I haven't done anything with the sitea! recently. I'll take a look at it.   	 Mark Levyn" System Management Associates, Inc.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.515 ************************